Baba Booey Concurs
September 14, 2015 10:24 AM Subscribe
The 32 Greatest Talk-Show Hosts Ever, as ranked by Vulture
Yep. Terry Wogan was robbed.
posted by dng at 10:35 AM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by dng at 10:35 AM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
No Steve Allen? Crazy.
posted by Quonab at 10:37 AM on September 14, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by Quonab at 10:37 AM on September 14, 2015 [15 favorites]
This is a weird list. Space Ghost? Zach Galifianakis? I mean, for a list so weirdly broad, yeah, it's weird how US-only it is. Sure, throw in Terry Wogan and Jools Holland or something, what the hell.
It should probably be called "The 32 Greatest Talk-Show Hosts That I Could Think Of While Trying To Come Up With Names Of Talk Show Hosts And Having Sort Of A Hard Time, So I Put An NPR Host On There, And Then Remembered How Much I Like That WTF Podcast And Figured, Sure, What The Hell, So Anyway Here's This List Of People Who Talk To People Professionally That I Happen To Like."
posted by koeselitz at 10:45 AM on September 14, 2015 [37 favorites]
It should probably be called "The 32 Greatest Talk-Show Hosts That I Could Think Of While Trying To Come Up With Names Of Talk Show Hosts And Having Sort Of A Hard Time, So I Put An NPR Host On There, And Then Remembered How Much I Like That WTF Podcast And Figured, Sure, What The Hell, So Anyway Here's This List Of People Who Talk To People Professionally That I Happen To Like."
posted by koeselitz at 10:45 AM on September 14, 2015 [37 favorites]
It's an interesting (and, yes, U.S.- and late-'70s-to-now-centric) look at a lot of very different styles of "talk show". Stern is an interviewer without parallel, but much of that is because there is no way in hell that Letterman, or even Oprah, could broach the subjects that he does, especially after he left the FCC-regulated airwaves.
Ditto Marc Maron, who enjoys a level of freedom that not even Stern gets, with no corporate masters or gatekeepers whatsoever.
I'm unsure about whether I'd even count about a quarter of the list (The Daily Show was only barely a talk show when Kilborn was on it; Between Two Ferns is 98 percent performance piece and 2 percent talk show), but obviously the reason the list was published is that Stephen Colbert was about to debut on The Late Show.
Of course, all these "definitive listicles" are just jumping-off points, but this one is a particularly strained "Fuck Jay Leno" skit (note that the two people he's collided with the most are coincidentally the top two) stretched out to feature length.
posted by Etrigan at 10:48 AM on September 14, 2015
Ditto Marc Maron, who enjoys a level of freedom that not even Stern gets, with no corporate masters or gatekeepers whatsoever.
I'm unsure about whether I'd even count about a quarter of the list (The Daily Show was only barely a talk show when Kilborn was on it; Between Two Ferns is 98 percent performance piece and 2 percent talk show), but obviously the reason the list was published is that Stephen Colbert was about to debut on The Late Show.
Of course, all these "definitive listicles" are just jumping-off points, but this one is a particularly strained "Fuck Jay Leno" skit (note that the two people he's collided with the most are coincidentally the top two) stretched out to feature length.
posted by Etrigan at 10:48 AM on September 14, 2015
And no Peter Gzowski. Canada has been robbed!
posted by clawsoon at 10:48 AM on September 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 10:48 AM on September 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
In my heart of hearts, I hold out hope that Craig Ferguson is merely resting and biding his time hosting that lame game show until he can come back to a talk show.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:49 AM on September 14, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 10:49 AM on September 14, 2015 [13 favorites]
Johnny Carson should be number 1. Conan and Oprah neeed to be way lower down. Space Ghost? Come on!
posted by Splunge at 10:51 AM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Splunge at 10:51 AM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Johnny Carson should be number 1
Agreed.
Conan and Oprah neeed to be way lower down.
Conan was one of the worst interviewers on television, and Oprah gave us Jenny McCarthy's anti-vax nonsense, the woo of Dr. Oz, and the brain woo of Dr. Phil. They both had their moments, but they were nowhere near greatness.
posted by maxsparber at 10:54 AM on September 14, 2015 [10 favorites]
Agreed.
Conan and Oprah neeed to be way lower down.
Conan was one of the worst interviewers on television, and Oprah gave us Jenny McCarthy's anti-vax nonsense, the woo of Dr. Oz, and the brain woo of Dr. Phil. They both had their moments, but they were nowhere near greatness.
posted by maxsparber at 10:54 AM on September 14, 2015 [10 favorites]
On my List of the Top Ten Greatest "Lists of Greatest Talk Show Hosts", this one comes in at only about 9th or 10th.
/The click-baited seize the means of click-baiting.
posted by benito.strauss at 10:57 AM on September 14, 2015 [11 favorites]
/The click-baited seize the means of click-baiting.
posted by benito.strauss at 10:57 AM on September 14, 2015 [11 favorites]
This list is shit.
posted by doctor_negative at 10:58 AM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by doctor_negative at 10:58 AM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
No Steve Allen? Crazy.
Not just crazy, but lame. #1 is supposedly Howard Stern? Lamest of all time.
Smock!
posted by Kirth Gerson at 10:58 AM on September 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
Not just crazy, but lame. #1 is supposedly Howard Stern? Lamest of all time.
Smock!
posted by Kirth Gerson at 10:58 AM on September 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
Conan was one of the worst interviewers on television
True, as was Howard Stern and Jon Stewart. Are talk show hosts supposed to be good interviewers? I always thought the "interview" parts had a lot of different purposes - for the host to meet someone they're a fan of, for the host to eat up time with too-long jokes, or for the host to let the guest tell a funny story involving themselves - but I never thought they were supposed to be interviews.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 10:59 AM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
True, as was Howard Stern and Jon Stewart. Are talk show hosts supposed to be good interviewers? I always thought the "interview" parts had a lot of different purposes - for the host to meet someone they're a fan of, for the host to eat up time with too-long jokes, or for the host to let the guest tell a funny story involving themselves - but I never thought they were supposed to be interviews.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 10:59 AM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
CraigyFerg should be way higher.
posted by kmz at 11:02 AM on September 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by kmz at 11:02 AM on September 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
Rumor has it that Howard Stern is negotiating a weekly interview show for one of the cable networks. Presumably one which won't cramp his Satellite Radio style.
posted by Gungho at 11:02 AM on September 14, 2015
posted by Gungho at 11:02 AM on September 14, 2015
Are talk show hosts supposed to be good interviewers?
Well, the format of his show was based around interviews, so, in my opinion, that's a pretty basic skill for what he was doing. I don't know. Maybe it was too much to ask that he not relentlessly interrupt his male guest with easy jokes and his female guests with meowing noises, and instead actually listen to them and ask follow up questions.
posted by maxsparber at 11:06 AM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, the format of his show was based around interviews, so, in my opinion, that's a pretty basic skill for what he was doing. I don't know. Maybe it was too much to ask that he not relentlessly interrupt his male guest with easy jokes and his female guests with meowing noises, and instead actually listen to them and ask follow up questions.
posted by maxsparber at 11:06 AM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I haven't watched Conan since the 90s but thanks for reminding me how cringe-inducing he was when interviewing pretty much any woman.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:07 AM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:07 AM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
and his forays into TV and movies have largely been busts. But when the on-air light goes on, five mornings a week these days on SiriusXM, he’s the best that ever was.
Ummm, even Howard Stern's first year on Sirius was only four days a week live; now he's down to three or so days a week with the show dark twelve weeks a year.
The interviews are almost always a hit, but I've considered his satellite radio years to be semi-retirement.
posted by dr_dank at 11:08 AM on September 14, 2015
Ummm, even Howard Stern's first year on Sirius was only four days a week live; now he's down to three or so days a week with the show dark twelve weeks a year.
The interviews are almost always a hit, but I've considered his satellite radio years to be semi-retirement.
posted by dr_dank at 11:08 AM on September 14, 2015
I was kind of surprised that the ones I grew up with and loved (Mike Douglas, Merv Griffin, Tom Snyder, Phil Donahue) were so LOW on the list. I'm not sure if it's accurate or if I should get my dander up and start yelling at clouds again.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 11:13 AM on September 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 11:13 AM on September 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
I was kind of surprised that the ones I grew up with and loved (Mike Douglas, Merv Griffin, Tom Snyder, Phil Donahue) were so LOW on the list.
This is another example of what I call the Hitchcock Recurrence: when I finally got my then-spouse to watch some Hitchcock movies, their response was "Oh, I have seen these. They just weren't Hitchcock movies when I saw them." Carson and Letterman and Winfrey wouldn't have been possible without Allen and Paar and Donahue.
posted by Etrigan at 11:21 AM on September 14, 2015 [9 favorites]
This is another example of what I call the Hitchcock Recurrence: when I finally got my then-spouse to watch some Hitchcock movies, their response was "Oh, I have seen these. They just weren't Hitchcock movies when I saw them." Carson and Letterman and Winfrey wouldn't have been possible without Allen and Paar and Donahue.
posted by Etrigan at 11:21 AM on September 14, 2015 [9 favorites]
Some of the folks in the top layers of this listicle haven't yet earned it. For Carson to be #3 and Jack Paar #17 is close to criminally insane. For Fallon to be ahead of Paar by any measure (or ahead of Leno, for that matter) is gibberish-spouting straitjacket bananas. The only reason for the wacky rankings is that almost no one under the age of 50 knows who Jack Paar was.
posted by blucevalo at 11:26 AM on September 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by blucevalo at 11:26 AM on September 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
Major Matt Mason Dixon: "I was kind of surprised that the ones I grew up with and loved (Mike Douglas, Merv Griffin, Tom Snyder, Phil Donahue) were so LOW on the list. I'm not sure if it's accurate or if I should get my dander up and start yelling at clouds again."
It couldn't hurt.
posted by Splunge at 11:27 AM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
It couldn't hurt.
posted by Splunge at 11:27 AM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
This list is stupid on more counts than I can count. Agree that it's an exercise in Jay Leno bashing. And could have done a better job at THAT by putting Joe Franklin at #31.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 11:32 AM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 11:32 AM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
I always thought the "interview" parts had a lot of different purposes - for the host to meet someone they're a fan of, for the host to eat up time with too-long jokes, or for the host to let the guest tell a funny story involving themselves - but I never thought they were supposed to be interviews.
I think all these play a factor, but it seems like the largest reason for the interview segments of nighttime talk shows is to have someone plug whatever thing they're appearing in. Or, like David Brenner, they've made a deal with the devil that grants them appearances no matter what.
posted by LionIndex at 11:33 AM on September 14, 2015
I think all these play a factor, but it seems like the largest reason for the interview segments of nighttime talk shows is to have someone plug whatever thing they're appearing in. Or, like David Brenner, they've made a deal with the devil that grants them appearances no matter what.
posted by LionIndex at 11:33 AM on September 14, 2015
I was kind of surprised that the ones I grew up with and loved (Mike Douglas, Merv Griffin, Tom Snyder, Phil Donahue) were so LOW on the list.
The first time I ever saw the Clash was on Snyder's Tomorrow show.
I just realized...Charlie Rose wasn't on that list. He's mentioned in the Larry King piece, but wasn't ranked himself.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:39 AM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
The first time I ever saw the Clash was on Snyder's Tomorrow show.
I just realized...Charlie Rose wasn't on that list. He's mentioned in the Larry King piece, but wasn't ranked himself.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:39 AM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Charlie Rose should be in there just for how many times his show's format is parodied and referenced in popular culture.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:40 AM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by shakespeherian at 11:40 AM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was kind of surprised that the ones I grew up with and loved (Mike Douglas, Merv Griffin, Tom Snyder, Phil Donahue) were so LOW on the list.
The article's authors, Rob Tannenbaum and Craig Marks, look to be in their 30s, possibly early 40s. They likely weren't watching much late night TV in the '70s and early '80s.
This list is completely arbitrary -- as are most lists of this ilk. The inclusion of a couple radio/podcast hosts seems mostly designed to let them put Stern in at Number 1. What really bugs me, though, is the inclusion of fictional talk shows alongside the real thing. There's a big difference between the written, workshopped and edited "Larry Sanders Show" and even the Leno's "Tonight Show," on which there might have been a script but there was always the (minor) threat that it could go off the rails.
posted by me3dia at 11:46 AM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
The article's authors, Rob Tannenbaum and Craig Marks, look to be in their 30s, possibly early 40s. They likely weren't watching much late night TV in the '70s and early '80s.
This list is completely arbitrary -- as are most lists of this ilk. The inclusion of a couple radio/podcast hosts seems mostly designed to let them put Stern in at Number 1. What really bugs me, though, is the inclusion of fictional talk shows alongside the real thing. There's a big difference between the written, workshopped and edited "Larry Sanders Show" and even the Leno's "Tonight Show," on which there might have been a script but there was always the (minor) threat that it could go off the rails.
posted by me3dia at 11:46 AM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
After consulting with the clouds in my front yard, we have decided to ignore this list, as it is best for everyone concerned. Also: NO SAMMY MAUDLIN.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 11:46 AM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 11:46 AM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
> The only reason for the wacky rankings is that almost no one under the age of 50 knows who Jack Paar was.
Which is why it's rather silly to compare Fallon to Paar in the first place, to say nothing of comparing Paar to Space Ghost.
The late-night network talk shows are a strange beast. They’re an hour long (hell, The Tonight Show was 90 minutes long for ages under Carson) and they air five nights a week. It’s honestly unfair to even compare them to shows like The Daily Show, which are a half-hour long with one short interview. Shorter shows have a higher signal-to-noise ratio because they have to fill far less space.
Conan once did an interview where he mentioned that in late night TV, even your solid fans might see your show only twice a week. And then some people might only watch the first twenty minutes or so before they turn it off and go to bed. Some hosts go out and do remote pieces — Conan was fantastic at this, as was Letterman back when he still bothered to do it — but those are time-intensive and you probably can’t do more than one of those a week. So you need to have some filler — a Top Ten list, or Fallon’s thank-you notes shtick, or Carnac the Magnificent.
In this environment, it’s easy to go the way of Jay Leno and use these constraints to validate your lack of effort. Or you could go the other way, like Letterman did, and fall into self-loathing because your standards are higher than you can possibly meet within the format. But these challenges are unique to the length of the show and its structure. Chris Rock accepted an Emmy for his titular HBO show a few years ago, and then in his acceptance speech said that Conan should’ve won it, because Rock did thirteen shows per year in contrast to Conan’s 200.
To get back to my point: (1) this list should only include people who host a non-fictional, hour-long talk show that mixes comedy with celebrity interviews; (2) even then, it’s nearly impossible to compare current hosts to hosts like Carson and Paar, who had fewer competitors for viewer attention; (3) somewhat relatedly, sites like these need to refrain from issuing pronouncements on Colbert’s Late Show when we’re only one week in.
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:46 AM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
Which is why it's rather silly to compare Fallon to Paar in the first place, to say nothing of comparing Paar to Space Ghost.
The late-night network talk shows are a strange beast. They’re an hour long (hell, The Tonight Show was 90 minutes long for ages under Carson) and they air five nights a week. It’s honestly unfair to even compare them to shows like The Daily Show, which are a half-hour long with one short interview. Shorter shows have a higher signal-to-noise ratio because they have to fill far less space.
Conan once did an interview where he mentioned that in late night TV, even your solid fans might see your show only twice a week. And then some people might only watch the first twenty minutes or so before they turn it off and go to bed. Some hosts go out and do remote pieces — Conan was fantastic at this, as was Letterman back when he still bothered to do it — but those are time-intensive and you probably can’t do more than one of those a week. So you need to have some filler — a Top Ten list, or Fallon’s thank-you notes shtick, or Carnac the Magnificent.
In this environment, it’s easy to go the way of Jay Leno and use these constraints to validate your lack of effort. Or you could go the other way, like Letterman did, and fall into self-loathing because your standards are higher than you can possibly meet within the format. But these challenges are unique to the length of the show and its structure. Chris Rock accepted an Emmy for his titular HBO show a few years ago, and then in his acceptance speech said that Conan should’ve won it, because Rock did thirteen shows per year in contrast to Conan’s 200.
To get back to my point: (1) this list should only include people who host a non-fictional, hour-long talk show that mixes comedy with celebrity interviews; (2) even then, it’s nearly impossible to compare current hosts to hosts like Carson and Paar, who had fewer competitors for viewer attention; (3) somewhat relatedly, sites like these need to refrain from issuing pronouncements on Colbert’s Late Show when we’re only one week in.
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:46 AM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
The best talk shows are always without a studio audience. I miss Tom Snyder. He talked and listened.
"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."
posted by davebush at 11:54 AM on September 14, 2015 [9 favorites]
"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."
posted by davebush at 11:54 AM on September 14, 2015 [9 favorites]
No Dean Learner? No Alan Partridge? No Dr. Johnny Fever? Outside of Space Ghost, Stephen Colbert, Larry Sanders, Zach Galifianakis, Barth Gimble, and Terri Gross fictitious interviewers were robbed!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:57 AM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:57 AM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
somewhat relatedly, sites like these need to refrain from issuing pronouncements on Colbert’s Late Show when we’re only one week in.
Stephen Colbert's ranking is based on The Colbert Report. This list is a week old. From the intro: "The final piece falls into place tonight, when Colbert makes his CBS debut in Letterman’s old chair"
posted by Etrigan at 12:00 PM on September 14, 2015
Stephen Colbert's ranking is based on The Colbert Report. This list is a week old. From the intro: "The final piece falls into place tonight, when Colbert makes his CBS debut in Letterman’s old chair"
posted by Etrigan at 12:00 PM on September 14, 2015
no chevy chase? - maybe it's just as well - i'm sure he'd like to forget his show, too
i saw the debut - i have never felt so sorry for a tv performer in my life
posted by pyramid termite at 12:01 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
i saw the debut - i have never felt so sorry for a tv performer in my life
posted by pyramid termite at 12:01 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
They're all good, but they're no Roland Rivron.
posted by fullerine at 12:07 PM on September 14, 2015
posted by fullerine at 12:07 PM on September 14, 2015
No Michael Parkinson? Seriously? Has the person who wrote this list even left the US or watched any TV from anywhere else?
Parkinson and Billy Connolly was always superb. Any and all of his appearances.
posted by Brockles at 12:07 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Parkinson and Billy Connolly was always superb. Any and all of his appearances.
posted by Brockles at 12:07 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
> Stephen Colbert's ranking is based on The Colbert Report. This list is a week old. From the intro: "The final piece falls into place tonight, when Colbert makes his CBS debut in Letterman’s old chair"
Yeah, I dropped the ball there — in the section you quoted I wasn’t actually talking about this article at all, despite how a reasonable person would read that sentence. This is more a reaction to the fact that every clickbait site seems to want to make a pronouncement on how Colbert is doing.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:08 PM on September 14, 2015
Yeah, I dropped the ball there — in the section you quoted I wasn’t actually talking about this article at all, despite how a reasonable person would read that sentence. This is more a reaction to the fact that every clickbait site seems to want to make a pronouncement on how Colbert is doing.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:08 PM on September 14, 2015
> no chevy chase? - maybe it's just as well - i'm sure he'd like to forget his show, too
No Pat Sajak, either.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:09 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
No Pat Sajak, either.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:09 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Brian Linehan
posted by Kabanos at 12:20 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Kabanos at 12:20 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I miss the old '70s and '80s style of talk show where they would have guests on who didn't have anything to sell, they were just interesting to talk to. Carson would have Orson Welles or Tony Randal on just to chat, not because they were pushing a new movie or memoir.
posted by octothorpe at 12:21 PM on September 14, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 12:21 PM on September 14, 2015 [10 favorites]
Talk Show interviews are mostly awful because they're just shilling something, and more often than not, the hosts are not in the same circle as the guests, and must stick to the script to not annoy studios or agents and get blackballed later. The only host where I never turned off interviews was CraigyFerg, in part because he didn't give a shit about promoting whatever the guest was selling. The guest was brought in to have 10 minutes or so with whatever he wanted to do that night* and while a few were too stiff and Craig had to lead them to have something interesting, those that were in on the joke were usually delightful.
posted by lmfsilva at 12:22 PM on September 14, 2015
posted by lmfsilva at 12:22 PM on September 14, 2015
I used to like Bob Costas' talk show back when. He and someone else sitting there having a conversation - no sidekick, no band, no product endorsement. I remember a two-parter with Mel Brooks that was especially great. That's the kind of thing I miss in a talk show.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 12:35 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 12:35 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
Outside of Space Ghost, Stephen Colbert, Larry Sanders, Zach Galifianakis, Barth Gimble, and Terri Gross
I'm pretty sure Terri Gross isn't fictitious. My first thought when reading the name of the article was "Wait, there have been 32 of them?" so I guess they just listed every nationally aired talk show host they could think of that lasted more than 13 weeks.
posted by lordrunningclam at 12:37 PM on September 14, 2015
I'm pretty sure Terri Gross isn't fictitious. My first thought when reading the name of the article was "Wait, there have been 32 of them?" so I guess they just listed every nationally aired talk show host they could think of that lasted more than 13 weeks.
posted by lordrunningclam at 12:37 PM on September 14, 2015
Some of Letterman's best moments were when he would randomly invite one of a handful of people he enjoyed having on the show, typically around Thanksgiving or Christmas. Amy Sedaris was on at least a couple times in those circumstances. So the tradition of having people on to chat isn't dead, it's just... hibernating.
posted by mikeh at 12:38 PM on September 14, 2015
posted by mikeh at 12:38 PM on September 14, 2015
This list needs to be separated into interviewers and clowns. Stern is a clown who gets good interviews by asking very inappropriate questions. Carson, Letterman, Ferguson, and Fallon are also clowns. In fact, most of this list are clowns.
The interviewers are Maron, Gross, Snyder, and Dick Cavett topping that list. His show was highly intellectual and would never fly in today's dumbed-down America.
Jon Stewart was both...a clown when his guest was a fellow comedian or vapid celebrity; and a pretty good interviewer when they weren't.
posted by rocket88 at 12:40 PM on September 14, 2015
The interviewers are Maron, Gross, Snyder, and Dick Cavett topping that list. His show was highly intellectual and would never fly in today's dumbed-down America.
Jon Stewart was both...a clown when his guest was a fellow comedian or vapid celebrity; and a pretty good interviewer when they weren't.
posted by rocket88 at 12:40 PM on September 14, 2015
Which is why it's rather silly to compare Fallon to Paar in the first place, to say nothing of comparing Paar to Space Ghost.
It is entirely right and proper that Space Ghost rank well ahead of Leno, though.
posted by mhoye at 12:42 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
It is entirely right and proper that Space Ghost rank well ahead of Leno, though.
posted by mhoye at 12:42 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
Carson would have Orson Welles or Tony Randal on just to chat, not because they were pushing a new movie or memoir.
The greatest thing about Carson is that he would have anybody at all on his show, as long as they were interesting. When a classical composer canceled, Carson just had an audience member get up and play.
It was the last time the average American stood a chance of being at the center of America's attention, simply because they were in some way worth attention, and not because they had a publicist.
posted by maxsparber at 12:59 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
The greatest thing about Carson is that he would have anybody at all on his show, as long as they were interesting. When a classical composer canceled, Carson just had an audience member get up and play.
It was the last time the average American stood a chance of being at the center of America's attention, simply because they were in some way worth attention, and not because they had a publicist.
posted by maxsparber at 12:59 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
Carson hosted a cocktail party. Fallon plays beer pong.
posted by davebush at 1:06 PM on September 14, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by davebush at 1:06 PM on September 14, 2015 [14 favorites]
I haven't watched Conan since the 90s but thanks for reminding me how cringe-inducing he was when interviewing pretty much any woman.
There's an Inside Amy Schumer bit where I was wondering if they were actively spoofing Conan.
posted by drezdn at 1:07 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
There's an Inside Amy Schumer bit where I was wondering if they were actively spoofing Conan.
posted by drezdn at 1:07 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
Carson hosted a cocktail party. Fallon plays beer pong.This makes my mother's appreciation of Fallon that much weirder and funnier.
posted by pxe2000 at 1:19 PM on September 14, 2015
I never understood the appeal of Johnny Carson.
He just didn't seem that funny to me.
Every time I saw his monologue, it would go the same way:
Carson: (tells a lame joke)...
(timed pause)
Carson: "My writers suck." (golf swing)
Studio Audience: (goes totally crazy! gales of hearty laughter, sustained applause)
posted by ovvl at 1:47 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
He just didn't seem that funny to me.
Every time I saw his monologue, it would go the same way:
Carson: (tells a lame joke)...
(timed pause)
Carson: "My writers suck." (golf swing)
Studio Audience: (goes totally crazy! gales of hearty laughter, sustained applause)
posted by ovvl at 1:47 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
CTRL-F for "Space Ghost." And.... HOLY SHIT, HE IS ON THERE.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:51 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:51 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Stern is a clown who gets good interviews by asking very inappropriate questions
Sorry you haven't been paying attention lately. You can't do a 90 minute interview and limit it to boob and dick questions. Stern's interviews go into areas where most shows just don't have the time to go. Could Leno spend a half hour (out of a 90 minute interview) with Neil Young discussing 4-way street and how much Young dislikes David Crosby?
posted by Gungho at 1:56 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
Sorry you haven't been paying attention lately. You can't do a 90 minute interview and limit it to boob and dick questions. Stern's interviews go into areas where most shows just don't have the time to go. Could Leno spend a half hour (out of a 90 minute interview) with Neil Young discussing 4-way street and how much Young dislikes David Crosby?
posted by Gungho at 1:56 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
I agree with everyone who mentioned someone not included on the list, simply because the longer the list the poorer the rating Jay Leno gets.
posted by ckape at 1:57 PM on September 14, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by ckape at 1:57 PM on September 14, 2015 [7 favorites]
Graham Norton should be in the top 5, otherwise rename it with 'US Only' in the title.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 2:03 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by GallonOfAlan at 2:03 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
There's an Inside Amy Schumer bit where I was wondering if they were actively spoofing Conan.
The set looks like Conan's but the mannerisms all say Letterman.
posted by shakespeherian at 2:05 PM on September 14, 2015
The set looks like Conan's but the mannerisms all say Letterman.
posted by shakespeherian at 2:05 PM on September 14, 2015
The set looks like Conan's but the mannerisms all say Letterman.
I was thinking the same, which makes sense, as they have a lot of overlap. As Letterman used to keep inviting Terri Garr on so he could flirt with her awkwardly in front of the whole country, so Conan did with Ellen Cleghorne. Only Conan's whole "omg I am so nerdy! and pale! and I have red hair and freckles ew gross!" technique was even more unbearable than watching Letterman leering and being more smug than usual.
I thought I put all this behind me, man. But the memories come flooding back!
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:13 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was thinking the same, which makes sense, as they have a lot of overlap. As Letterman used to keep inviting Terri Garr on so he could flirt with her awkwardly in front of the whole country, so Conan did with Ellen Cleghorne. Only Conan's whole "omg I am so nerdy! and pale! and I have red hair and freckles ew gross!" technique was even more unbearable than watching Letterman leering and being more smug than usual.
I thought I put all this behind me, man. But the memories come flooding back!
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:13 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Carson and Letterman and Winfrey wouldn't have been possible without Allen and Paar and Donahue.
... who in turn are were following trails blazed by Ernie Kovacs, depressingly absent from both the list and these comments.
I was pleased to see some nonexistent hosts (Larry Sanders, Barth Gimble, Space Ghost) ahead of The Beige That Walks Like a Man, Leno. I am mildly surprised to see find Dennis Miller absent -- before his 2001 face-heel turn, I considered him to be in the range of Jon Stewart and Bill Maher for late-night talk show hosting.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:14 PM on September 14, 2015
... who in turn are were following trails blazed by Ernie Kovacs, depressingly absent from both the list and these comments.
I was pleased to see some nonexistent hosts (Larry Sanders, Barth Gimble, Space Ghost) ahead of The Beige That Walks Like a Man, Leno. I am mildly surprised to see find Dennis Miller absent -- before his 2001 face-heel turn, I considered him to be in the range of Jon Stewart and Bill Maher for late-night talk show hosting.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:14 PM on September 14, 2015
...who in turn are were following trails blazed by Ernie Kovacs, depressingly absent from both the list and these comments.
Was Kovacs an interviewer at all? He was a pioneer, for sure, and shamefully overlooked now (no SNL or SCTV without Kovacs), but I don't think of him as an interviewer.
posted by holborne at 3:24 PM on September 14, 2015
Was Kovacs an interviewer at all? He was a pioneer, for sure, and shamefully overlooked now (no SNL or SCTV without Kovacs), but I don't think of him as an interviewer.
posted by holborne at 3:24 PM on September 14, 2015
Shouldn't Ed Sullivan be on this list somewhere?
posted by lkc at 3:32 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by lkc at 3:32 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Jon Stewart was both...a clown when his guest was a fellow comedian or vapid celebrity; and a pretty good interviewer when they weren't.
I don't know. He has proven to be a good interviewer, but in the later years, most of his political interviews were not worth watching. I get that most were short, promoting a book and during pre the most prominent like Huckabee or Rumsfeld (which he called his greatest regret) agreed a non-aggressive interview with a lot of stuff crossed out, and you don't welcome people to your home to ambush them, but c'mon. His interviews with Randy Paul were awful because he often sneaked in some BS, while Jon shrugged and played it off with a laugh.
posted by lmfsilva at 3:47 PM on September 14, 2015
I don't know. He has proven to be a good interviewer, but in the later years, most of his political interviews were not worth watching. I get that most were short, promoting a book and during pre the most prominent like Huckabee or Rumsfeld (which he called his greatest regret) agreed a non-aggressive interview with a lot of stuff crossed out, and you don't welcome people to your home to ambush them, but c'mon. His interviews with Randy Paul were awful because he often sneaked in some BS, while Jon shrugged and played it off with a laugh.
posted by lmfsilva at 3:47 PM on September 14, 2015
Meanwhile at Vanity Fair: "We talked to all the titans of late-night television, and found out why it's better than ever."
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:53 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:53 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
The only reason for the wacky rankings is that almost no one under the age of 50 knows who Jack Paar was.
After initially looking at the list I was going to jump in and complain about how low in the listings Dick Cavett was (# 12). But you're right - the whole thing needs to be age weighted. Then Dick Cavett would jump to one or two, where he belongs (behind Carson, not Stern), and folks like Steve Allen would make the list.
posted by rtimmel at 4:00 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
After initially looking at the list I was going to jump in and complain about how low in the listings Dick Cavett was (# 12). But you're right - the whole thing needs to be age weighted. Then Dick Cavett would jump to one or two, where he belongs (behind Carson, not Stern), and folks like Steve Allen would make the list.
posted by rtimmel at 4:00 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
The list is missing Charlie Rose and Bob Costas. But kudos on including Tom Snyder. And even though he's not a talk show host, Kevin Perreira used to be one of the best interviewers on American television.
posted by dances with hamsters at 4:11 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by dances with hamsters at 4:11 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
How can they mention Larry King and ignore his best work, on Mutual radio? Feh.
posted by in278s at 4:26 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by in278s at 4:26 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I used to watch talk shows a lot, for about a decade. Realizing during the Conan/Leno debacle that I was failing to muster up even the slightest of shits to give was like putting on the They Live sunglasses.
The epiphany: Talk shows -- and I'm talking specifically of the late night variety, and the Ellen-y daytime ones that mimic them (as opposed to, say, Maury) -- are completely hollow. There's no there there. The interviews are either contractually-obligated promotions of movies/shows/books or PR appearances by people promoting themselves, the comedy is the hackiest of hack and only there to distract from the PR spoonfeeding, and the phoney-baloney hosts seem like they'd rather be doing anything else if not for the truckloads of money they get out of it.
I tried to watch Colbert's new show. I wanted to like it. But without the ironic distance it's just more of the same.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:28 PM on September 14, 2015
The epiphany: Talk shows -- and I'm talking specifically of the late night variety, and the Ellen-y daytime ones that mimic them (as opposed to, say, Maury) -- are completely hollow. There's no there there. The interviews are either contractually-obligated promotions of movies/shows/books or PR appearances by people promoting themselves, the comedy is the hackiest of hack and only there to distract from the PR spoonfeeding, and the phoney-baloney hosts seem like they'd rather be doing anything else if not for the truckloads of money they get out of it.
I tried to watch Colbert's new show. I wanted to like it. But without the ironic distance it's just more of the same.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:28 PM on September 14, 2015
To quote someone whose opinion I valued very highly: "Carson had gravitas, everybody except Sinatra was afraid of Carson, Nixon was afraid of Carson. Leno is a two bit schmuck who makes fart jokes and pats himself on the back for it."
posted by Sphinx at 4:42 PM on September 14, 2015
posted by Sphinx at 4:42 PM on September 14, 2015
No Michael Parkinson? Seriously?
Seconded.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 4:50 PM on September 14, 2015
Seconded.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 4:50 PM on September 14, 2015
Calling Carson a clown is so incredibly clueless. As is dismissing his show because of the monologue.
posted by Splunge at 5:03 PM on September 14, 2015
posted by Splunge at 5:03 PM on September 14, 2015
As is dismissing his show because of the monologue.
In my view Johnny's monologues were awful, and his show terribly over-rated, but than again I only saw him on TV at the twilight of his career. It seemed to me back then that he was a sort of stale outdated artifact of a previous generation.
I am continually amazed at the continuing persistence of the venerable rituals of the stiff old late-nite talk show format on TV into this present era. And I say this as person who most of the time really likes vague old stuffy and irrelevant things.
posted by ovvl at 5:55 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
In my view Johnny's monologues were awful, and his show terribly over-rated, but than again I only saw him on TV at the twilight of his career. It seemed to me back then that he was a sort of stale outdated artifact of a previous generation.
I am continually amazed at the continuing persistence of the venerable rituals of the stiff old late-nite talk show format on TV into this present era. And I say this as person who most of the time really likes vague old stuffy and irrelevant things.
posted by ovvl at 5:55 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
The epiphany: Talk shows -- and I'm talking specifically of the late night variety, and the Ellen-y daytime ones that mimic them (as opposed to, say, Maury) -- are completely hollow. There's no there there.
I kind of agree with you, but I come at it from a different perspective. The purpose of a late night talk show is to be comforting. They're not there to be challenging or cutting edge comedy or to make you face substantive issues. They're there to be the adult equivalent of the bed time story, to be something predictable and funny in a way that's not unduly taxing of your mental resources. The comfort you derive from them can take a lot of different forms: the soothingly samey shittiness of Leno, the weird old man-ness of Letterman, the puppyish enthusiasm of Fallon, the invitingly chatty Craig Ferguson....All the late night hosts can occasionally do something surprising or edgy or disarming, but their nightly stock in trade is to be predictable and constant. It's a format that resists change because change isn't what the format is about. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that, and it's understandable that that isn't to everyone's taste.
When it comes to Colbert's new post as host of the Late Show, I too found myself kind of wrongfooted by it because of the lack of ironic distance. But when I recalibrated my expectations (this is late night on a major network, and not the Colbert Report persona), I found myself impressed. I don't know if it's my familiarity with Colbert, or if it's his show itself, but Colbert's Late Show has basically instantly hit that ideal balance of comfort and humor. My previous late night loyalties were 1000% with Craig Ferguson, but it took me a few months of viewing before I reached the point where his show became a welcome part of my routine and the equivalent of hanging out with a friend. Colbert's show hit that point a lot faster.
posted by yasaman at 5:59 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
I kind of agree with you, but I come at it from a different perspective. The purpose of a late night talk show is to be comforting. They're not there to be challenging or cutting edge comedy or to make you face substantive issues. They're there to be the adult equivalent of the bed time story, to be something predictable and funny in a way that's not unduly taxing of your mental resources. The comfort you derive from them can take a lot of different forms: the soothingly samey shittiness of Leno, the weird old man-ness of Letterman, the puppyish enthusiasm of Fallon, the invitingly chatty Craig Ferguson....All the late night hosts can occasionally do something surprising or edgy or disarming, but their nightly stock in trade is to be predictable and constant. It's a format that resists change because change isn't what the format is about. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that, and it's understandable that that isn't to everyone's taste.
When it comes to Colbert's new post as host of the Late Show, I too found myself kind of wrongfooted by it because of the lack of ironic distance. But when I recalibrated my expectations (this is late night on a major network, and not the Colbert Report persona), I found myself impressed. I don't know if it's my familiarity with Colbert, or if it's his show itself, but Colbert's Late Show has basically instantly hit that ideal balance of comfort and humor. My previous late night loyalties were 1000% with Craig Ferguson, but it took me a few months of viewing before I reached the point where his show became a welcome part of my routine and the equivalent of hanging out with a friend. Colbert's show hit that point a lot faster.
posted by yasaman at 5:59 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Space Ghost was the only talk show host that asked the most important question: "Are you getting enough oxygen?"
posted by vibrotronica at 6:11 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by vibrotronica at 6:11 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
Missing from slots #1 and number #2 (for US-centric lists) respectively:
Fred "Mr." Rogers.
Huell Howser.
Ok, I'm vastly expanding the general concept of "talk show" but SHUT UP I WILL STAB YOU.
posted by loquacious at 6:17 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Fred "Mr." Rogers.
Huell Howser.
Ok, I'm vastly expanding the general concept of "talk show" but SHUT UP I WILL STAB YOU.
posted by loquacious at 6:17 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ernie Kovacs was the twice-a-week host of the Tonight Show when Steve Allen was given a weekly prime time show. Ernie would do Monday and Tuesday, Steve would do Wednesday-Friday. Previous to that, he hosted a local Philadelphia morning show. He does have some experience. But considering him a talk show host is like considering Leonardo DiCaprio a kid sitcom star. Sure, he did it, but that's not what he's known for.
posted by mmb5 at 7:43 PM on September 14, 2015
posted by mmb5 at 7:43 PM on September 14, 2015
Calling Carson a clown is so incredibly clueless. As is dismissing his show because of the monologue.
His interviews were straight man set up lines for the guest's jokes or for his own. Every interview was played for laughs.
"Clown" is not an insult. Johnny Carson was the greatest of the late night talk show clowns.
posted by rocket88 at 8:27 AM on September 15, 2015
His interviews were straight man set up lines for the guest's jokes or for his own. Every interview was played for laughs.
"Clown" is not an insult. Johnny Carson was the greatest of the late night talk show clowns.
posted by rocket88 at 8:27 AM on September 15, 2015
People are dismissing this as Leno bashing, but this part of Conan's article seems unduly generous:
"Eventually, [Conan's] ratings were good enough that NBC promised him the network’s prize job, hosting The Tonight Show. He lasted only a few months — barely long enough to shoot a wax model of Tom Cruise out of a cannon — and was pushed out when Jay Leno agreed to sit his fat ass back in the big chair. "
Where's the part about how the move was planned for and agreed to by Leno for years prior. Where's the part about Leno's incessant whining and backstabbing once he gave up the job?
posted by Locobot at 9:08 AM on September 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
"Eventually, [Conan's] ratings were good enough that NBC promised him the network’s prize job, hosting The Tonight Show. He lasted only a few months — barely long enough to shoot a wax model of Tom Cruise out of a cannon — and was pushed out when Jay Leno agreed to sit his fat ass back in the big chair. "
Where's the part about how the move was planned for and agreed to by Leno for years prior. Where's the part about Leno's incessant whining and backstabbing once he gave up the job?
posted by Locobot at 9:08 AM on September 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
Where's the part about how the move was planned for and agreed to by Leno for years prior. Where's the part about Leno's incessant whining and backstabbing once he gave up the job?
Where's the part about Conan's pay or play contract getting him a cool $40million for failing?
posted by Sys Rq at 9:15 AM on September 15, 2015
Where's the part about Conan's pay or play contract getting him a cool $40million for failing?
posted by Sys Rq at 9:15 AM on September 15, 2015
" Carson, Letterman, Ferguson, and Fallon are also clowns."
Have you ever seen a Craig Ferguson interview? He should be in the top 10 on the list, if not the top 5.
posted by I-baLL at 11:41 AM on September 15, 2015
Have you ever seen a Craig Ferguson interview? He should be in the top 10 on the list, if not the top 5.
posted by I-baLL at 11:41 AM on September 15, 2015
Ferguson's just as much of a creeper on female guests as Conan, but seems to get a pass. I've never really understood why.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:53 AM on September 15, 2015
posted by tonycpsu at 11:53 AM on September 15, 2015
Craig Ferguson deserves to be on the Top 10 if only because he seldom joked about people when they were down, and certainly wouldn't go after celebrities with addiction issues. He willingly took out the low-hanging fruit in a show that was mostly improvised (and at times it showed - he and Josh Robert Thompson were gold together, but sometimes had some actual awkward silences as one of them thought of something to say).
posted by lmfsilva at 12:07 PM on September 15, 2015
posted by lmfsilva at 12:07 PM on September 15, 2015
Ha, Ferguson gets a pass because he's actually charming, and good at flirting. He tended to have a great rapport with most of his female guests, and he'd course correct pretty quickly if his usual charm wasn't working or was making his guest uncomfortable. He was reliably delightful with Kristen Bell and Mila Kunis, among others.
posted by yasaman at 12:20 PM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by yasaman at 12:20 PM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Alright, I guess I don't think someone should get a pass for being better at the art of flirting with decades-younger actresses, but you've certainly answered my question.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:37 PM on September 15, 2015
posted by tonycpsu at 12:37 PM on September 15, 2015
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