A vast ocean underlies the ice on Enceladus
September 21, 2015 4:26 PM Subscribe
Cassini Finds Global Ocean in Saturn's Moon Enceladus. "A global ocean lies beneath the icy crust of Saturn's geologically active moon Enceladus, according to new research using data from NASA's Cassini mission." The discovery of a global ocean beneath its icy rind makes Enceladus an even better potential extraterrestrial incubator than previously thought.
Evidence for Hydrothermal Vents on Saturn’s Moon Enceladus Hints at Conditions for Life
NASA's Confirmation of Enceladus's Global Ocean --"Moves it to the Top of the 'Most Habitable Spot' Beyond Earth"
Life-Hunting Mission Would Bring Samples Back from Saturn Moon Enceladus
Recent related post: Tax dollars hard at work around Saturn
Evidence for Hydrothermal Vents on Saturn’s Moon Enceladus Hints at Conditions for Life
NASA's Confirmation of Enceladus's Global Ocean --"Moves it to the Top of the 'Most Habitable Spot' Beyond Earth"
Life-Hunting Mission Would Bring Samples Back from Saturn Moon Enceladus
Recent related post: Tax dollars hard at work around Saturn
Damn salad people. You know the word "caprese" means liberal in the insalatan's native tongue, right?
But joking aside, this is seriously freaking rad. Imagine an ocean teeming with life! (And since it's not Europa Arthur Clark'l let us go there!)
posted by Annika Cicada at 4:37 PM on September 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
But joking aside, this is seriously freaking rad. Imagine an ocean teeming with life! (And since it's not Europa Arthur Clark'l let us go there!)
posted by Annika Cicada at 4:37 PM on September 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
Space fact: All of the features on Enceladus are named after people and places from 1,001 Arabian Nights, which makes it the Opa-Locka, Florida of our solar system
posted by theodolite at 4:37 PM on September 21, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 4:37 PM on September 21, 2015 [13 favorites]
BTW DON'T LAND ON ENCELADUS EITHER. NO EUROPA, NO ENCELADUS, WAIT, LET ME CHECK THE LIST I HAVE IT HERE SOMEWHERE
posted by GuyZero at 4:40 PM on September 21, 2015 [46 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 4:40 PM on September 21, 2015 [46 favorites]
Theodolite is not kidding. Omfg that's too cool.
posted by Annika Cicada at 4:45 PM on September 21, 2015
posted by Annika Cicada at 4:45 PM on September 21, 2015
So where does the first lander go, Europa or Enceladus? Does JPL break down into rival camps over this?
posted by chimpsonfilm at 4:56 PM on September 21, 2015
posted by chimpsonfilm at 4:56 PM on September 21, 2015
BTW DON'T LAND ON ENCELADUS EITHER. NO EUROPA, NO ENCELADUS, WAIT, LET ME CHECK THE LIST I HAVE IT HERE SOMEWHERE
ONE SEC I THINK IT'S IN MY OTHER MONOLITH
posted by Celsius1414 at 5:35 PM on September 21, 2015 [28 favorites]
ONE SEC I THINK IT'S IN MY OTHER MONOLITH
posted by Celsius1414 at 5:35 PM on September 21, 2015 [28 favorites]
> Space fact: All of the features on Enceladus are named after people and places from 1,001 Arabian Nights
And yet none of them is named Mesrour (or Mesrur) for Harun-el-Rashid's chief eunuch, the name Charlotte Brontë gave Rochester's horse! Get to work, name-giving people!
posted by languagehat at 5:45 PM on September 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
And yet none of them is named Mesrour (or Mesrur) for Harun-el-Rashid's chief eunuch, the name Charlotte Brontë gave Rochester's horse! Get to work, name-giving people!
posted by languagehat at 5:45 PM on September 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
This freaking amazing!
So what's keeping that ocean liquid? Scientists don't know yet! And what the hell, a GLOBAL ocean under the ice, how is that possible? What anchors or attaches the ice to the planet? Clearly we need to send an orbiter and a lander and a rover! Why are there vents at its south pole?
So many questions!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:48 PM on September 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
So what's keeping that ocean liquid? Scientists don't know yet! And what the hell, a GLOBAL ocean under the ice, how is that possible? What anchors or attaches the ice to the planet? Clearly we need to send an orbiter and a lander and a rover! Why are there vents at its south pole?
So many questions!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:48 PM on September 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
The Wikipedia page isn't exhaustive. There is in fact a crater named after your favorite eunuch swordman.
posted by theodolite at 5:50 PM on September 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 5:50 PM on September 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
So cool!
posted by puffyn at 6:00 PM on September 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by puffyn at 6:00 PM on September 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Clearly we need to send an orbiter and a lander and a rover!
Moonboat, to launch moon submarine.
posted by LobsterMitten at 6:49 PM on September 21, 2015
Moonboat, to launch moon submarine.
posted by LobsterMitten at 6:49 PM on September 21, 2015
Mm, or a lunar icefishing shack.
posted by LobsterMitten at 6:55 PM on September 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by LobsterMitten at 6:55 PM on September 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Spot the Two Moons Hidden in this Picture of Saturn's Rings
posted by homunculus at 7:17 PM on September 21, 2015
posted by homunculus at 7:17 PM on September 21, 2015
a lunar icefishing shack.
That can mean only one thing: spacebeers.
posted by bonehead at 7:54 PM on September 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
That can mean only one thing: spacebeers.
posted by bonehead at 7:54 PM on September 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
The discovery of a global ocean beneath its icy rind makes Enceladus an even better potential extraterrestrial incubator than previously thought.Father Sandoz to the launch chamber!
posted by Poldo at 8:19 PM on September 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
You just know Discovery is planning Deadliest Catch:Enceladus
posted by pjern at 10:18 PM on September 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by pjern at 10:18 PM on September 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
There's plenty to joke about here, but I hope a probe with a tethered drill can be put up there to peer into the ocean itself. I haven't read much in the last few days since the announcement- what is the likely depth of the ice layer, I wonder?
posted by Devils Rancher at 3:04 AM on September 22, 2015
posted by Devils Rancher at 3:04 AM on September 22, 2015
The ice is believed to be between 10 and 25 miles thick. Thinner at the south pole, where it's warmest.
That's where the underwater cities are, the heat thinning the ice shell and causing vapour jets is a real environmental problem.
Although one faction of the Enceladean Assembly insists it's all down to solar heating, or tidal heathing from orbital resonance with Dione, but scientist currently can't find any natural source for the heat.
The opposing faction is of course accusing them of being paid shills of the Underwater Fusion companies which produce power, but also a lot of waste heat.
The disruption to the water currents caused by these cryovolcanic jets venting material to space is reaching lower and lower depths every year, but that's easily solved by limiting building heights, so it's really not an issue.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 3:30 AM on September 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
That's where the underwater cities are, the heat thinning the ice shell and causing vapour jets is a real environmental problem.
Although one faction of the Enceladean Assembly insists it's all down to solar heating, or tidal heathing from orbital resonance with Dione, but scientist currently can't find any natural source for the heat.
The opposing faction is of course accusing them of being paid shills of the Underwater Fusion companies which produce power, but also a lot of waste heat.
The disruption to the water currents caused by these cryovolcanic jets venting material to space is reaching lower and lower depths every year, but that's easily solved by limiting building heights, so it's really not an issue.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 3:30 AM on September 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
Oh my god. Is about all I can think.
I just saw a picture of the surface of Pluto. Pluto. And now this?
Fuck me these are interesting times.
My kids fully expect that by the time they have kids, we'll be on other planets. I mean, I was just hoping I wouldn't be killed be disco or nuclear bombs.
posted by From Bklyn at 3:46 AM on September 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
I just saw a picture of the surface of Pluto. Pluto. And now this?
Fuck me these are interesting times.
My kids fully expect that by the time they have kids, we'll be on other planets. I mean, I was just hoping I wouldn't be killed be disco or nuclear bombs.
posted by From Bklyn at 3:46 AM on September 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
So that's two large aged icy bodies with mysterious internal heat sources. Nasa's been peeking at our last whsky-n-megalith tour of Scotland.
It does all feel like a bit of an excalating skill test. Having unlocked orbital flight, the Moon, all the planets, landing on a comet or two and getting the exoplanet count into three digits, it's all "OK, then, if you're so smart - here's a 25 mile thick ice sheet a very long way away with Interesting Things underneath. Go!"
posted by Devonian at 4:58 AM on September 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
It does all feel like a bit of an excalating skill test. Having unlocked orbital flight, the Moon, all the planets, landing on a comet or two and getting the exoplanet count into three digits, it's all "OK, then, if you're so smart - here's a 25 mile thick ice sheet a very long way away with Interesting Things underneath. Go!"
posted by Devonian at 4:58 AM on September 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
Seriously, what sort of technology would be required to get through the crust around Enceladus or Europa (assuming Europa has the water oceans we hope it does). I assume we can't get through now and that actually holding open a hole is more difficult than just getting through. The deepest we've ever gotten a borehole is 12km (which the USSR drilled for shits and giggles scientific curiosity), so that's maybe about half the distance needed for one of these.
posted by Hactar at 7:08 AM on September 22, 2015
posted by Hactar at 7:08 AM on September 22, 2015
potential extraterrestrial incubator
It's all fun and games until the Enceladean xenomorphs burst out of everyone's chests.
posted by XMLicious at 7:12 AM on September 22, 2015
It's all fun and games until the Enceladean xenomorphs burst out of everyone's chests.
"It's Alien, but in our solar system, in a pitch dark ocean, under 25 miles of ice. And we can put 'Based on a true story' in the trailer."
Best. Elevator pitch. Ever.
posted by The Bellman at 7:31 AM on September 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
"It's Alien, but in our solar system, in a pitch dark ocean, under 25 miles of ice. And we can put 'Based on a true story' in the trailer."
Best. Elevator pitch. Ever.
posted by The Bellman at 7:31 AM on September 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
> What sort of technology would be required to get through the crust around Enceladus or Europa?
Well, this is not my specialty, but people I know (who are, yes, competing on rival billion-dollar mission concepts to Europa and Enceladus while sharing an office hallway) are wary of landers with drills. Too many ways in which things can go wrong.
One of the early concepts to sample the oceans (ocean, now, it looks like) of Enceladus was to simply have an orbiter that would fly through the polar plumes repeatedly, scooping up material on each pass, analyzing, phoning home, and coming back around for more. Why bother drilling when the material is already being ejected for you?
The other concept I've heard of is to just use the heat from the RTG power source to melt through the ice. But contamination is a major concern that keeps people up at night.
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:33 AM on September 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Well, this is not my specialty, but people I know (who are, yes, competing on rival billion-dollar mission concepts to Europa and Enceladus while sharing an office hallway) are wary of landers with drills. Too many ways in which things can go wrong.
One of the early concepts to sample the oceans (ocean, now, it looks like) of Enceladus was to simply have an orbiter that would fly through the polar plumes repeatedly, scooping up material on each pass, analyzing, phoning home, and coming back around for more. Why bother drilling when the material is already being ejected for you?
The other concept I've heard of is to just use the heat from the RTG power source to melt through the ice. But contamination is a major concern that keeps people up at night.
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:33 AM on September 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Considering the deepest boreholes on earth are 12,000 m and change (which is what 8ish miles in NASA units?) and those are major engineering efforts, I think our ability to put a similar operation on a remote moon is going to be largely theoretical for a long time.
You would need to have something like a deep sea drilling rig for it to work.
posted by bonehead at 9:32 AM on September 22, 2015
You would need to have something like a deep sea drilling rig for it to work.
posted by bonehead at 9:32 AM on September 22, 2015
This elevator pitch is getting better and better...
posted by From Bklyn at 10:28 AM on September 22, 2015
posted by From Bklyn at 10:28 AM on September 22, 2015
As an aside, here is the open-access paper on arXiv:
Enceladus's measured physical libration requires a global subsurface ocean
P. C. Thomas, R. Tajeddine, M. S. Tiscareno, J. A. Burns, J. Joseph, T. J. Loredo, P. Helfenstein, C. Porco
Several planetary satellites apparently have subsurface seas that are of great interest for, among other reasons, their possible habitability. The geologically diverse Saturnian satellite Enceladus vigorously vents liquid water and vapor from fractures within a south polar depression and thus must have a liquid reservoir or active melting. However, the extent and location of any subsurface liquid region is not directly observable. We use measurements of control points across the surface of Enceladus accumulated over seven years of spacecraft observations to determine the satellite's precise rotation state, finding a forced physical libration of 0.120+/-0.014 degrees (2 sigma). This value is too large to be consistent with Enceladus's core being rigidly connected to its surface, and thus implies the presence of a global ocean rather than a localized polar sea. The maintenance of a global ocean within Enceladus is problematic according to many thermal models and so may constrain satellite properties or require a surprisingly dissipative Saturn.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:41 PM on September 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
Enceladus's measured physical libration requires a global subsurface ocean
P. C. Thomas, R. Tajeddine, M. S. Tiscareno, J. A. Burns, J. Joseph, T. J. Loredo, P. Helfenstein, C. Porco
Several planetary satellites apparently have subsurface seas that are of great interest for, among other reasons, their possible habitability. The geologically diverse Saturnian satellite Enceladus vigorously vents liquid water and vapor from fractures within a south polar depression and thus must have a liquid reservoir or active melting. However, the extent and location of any subsurface liquid region is not directly observable. We use measurements of control points across the surface of Enceladus accumulated over seven years of spacecraft observations to determine the satellite's precise rotation state, finding a forced physical libration of 0.120+/-0.014 degrees (2 sigma). This value is too large to be consistent with Enceladus's core being rigidly connected to its surface, and thus implies the presence of a global ocean rather than a localized polar sea. The maintenance of a global ocean within Enceladus is problematic according to many thermal models and so may constrain satellite properties or require a surprisingly dissipative Saturn.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:41 PM on September 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
NASA's Cassini spacecraft snaps close-up images of Saturn's icy moon Enceladus
Cassini images of Enceladus northern pole
"The North Remembers"
posted by homunculus at 6:19 PM on October 18, 2015
Cassini images of Enceladus northern pole
"The North Remembers"
posted by homunculus at 6:19 PM on October 18, 2015
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