moot Does Barrel Roll, Brings 4chan Full Circle
September 22, 2015 10:57 AM Subscribe
2channel (NYT, 2004) is an anonymous, Japanese-language bulletin board which regularly ranks as one of the 50 most visited websites in Japan, and one of the top 500 worldwide. In 2004, the Times described it as a site of casual freedom in an otherwise staid public arena, "the place where gays come out in a society in which they mostly remain in the closet, where users freely broach taboo subjects, or where people go to the heart of the matter and ask, 'What's for dinner?'" and Wired in 2007 called it "an anonymous anarchy" and a "refreshing liberation." From the perspective of 2015, 2ch's history as an anonymous board might seem less novel: a kinetic creative culture, persistent hate speech (and subsequent DDoSes), mainstream media inspiration, threats and hoaxes, animal cruelty and shock content, severe data leaks, and, of course, increasingly urgent legal and moral questions about exactly who is responsible for the anonymous voices on 2ch.net. Today the site is still going strong, but in 2014 the founder and original owner of 2ch (apparently) stepped down. Sound familiar? Well, yesterday 2channel's founder acquired a new, English-language anonymous image board. moot no longer owns 4chan.
The announcement, in full:
The announcement, in full:
Today I'm pleased to announce that Hiroyuki Nishimura, best known as the founder of 2channel, has taken my place as the owner of 4chan.
Hiroyuki is a pioneer in the world of anonymous communities, and can be thought of as the great-grandfather of 4chan. His creation of 2channel in 1999 sparked an era of anonymous-centric web culture in Japan that led to the creation of Futaba Channel, the site that inspired 4chan. None of us would be using 4chan today—or potentially any anonymous image board—if it weren't for him.
I met Hiroyuki in 2011 and we became fast friends, bonding over our shared passion for creating and managing online communities. He is one of few individuals with a deep understanding of what it means to provide a digital home for tens of millions of people for more than a decade. There is nobody more qualified than Hiroyuki to lead 4chan, and I can't think of a person better suited for the task.
4chan sits on the eve of two great milestones—its 2 billionth post and 12th birthday. It has been a great privilege to serve as 4chan's founder and steward for almost twelve years, and I can't wait to see what lays in store under Hiroyuki's experienced leadership.
–moot
For the two or three people who might not be aware: Some parts of these sites make Reddit look like sunshine and rainbows. Do not explore them from work. Expect to be offended.
posted by poe at 11:29 AM on September 22, 2015 [20 favorites]
posted by poe at 11:29 AM on September 22, 2015 [20 favorites]
If Reddit is the Internet's Garbage Fire, 4chan is the Sewage Plant fire, and 8chan is the Nuclear Waste fire. Now, it looks like someone's routed the sewage into the nuclear waste dump, and set them both on fire.
posted by SansPoint at 11:30 AM on September 22, 2015 [42 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 11:30 AM on September 22, 2015 [42 favorites]
I seriously do not know how to feel about this. It's not as if 2channel didn't have as much bad press as the Western *chans.
posted by sukeban at 11:32 AM on September 22, 2015
posted by sukeban at 11:32 AM on September 22, 2015
8chan gleefully hosts child porn. Don't go there.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:33 AM on September 22, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:33 AM on September 22, 2015 [10 favorites]
it's a good job all of the chans are awful garbage or it would be hard to keep up on which was which!
posted by Artw at 11:34 AM on September 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:34 AM on September 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
"He is one of few individuals with a deep understanding of what it means to provide a digital home for tens of millions of people
who stalk, harrass, threaten and terrorize women," he didn't say, but should have.
posted by shmegegge at 11:36 AM on September 22, 2015 [14 favorites]
who stalk, harrass, threaten and terrorize women," he didn't say, but should have.
posted by shmegegge at 11:36 AM on September 22, 2015 [14 favorites]
So Japanese 2channel gets hosted in the US and English-language 4chan gets hosted in Japan and no one ever gets sued again, is that the idea?
posted by maryr at 11:37 AM on September 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by maryr at 11:37 AM on September 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
This should be interesting - there was a zero day exploit used on imgur earlier that seemed to target 8chan via 4chan.
If feels like there's been a lot of disruption to the larger internet big boards lately, between this and whatever is still going on at Reddit.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 11:38 AM on September 22, 2015
If feels like there's been a lot of disruption to the larger internet big boards lately, between this and whatever is still going on at Reddit.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 11:38 AM on September 22, 2015
It's a race to the bottom and they've got the pedal to metal!
posted by tommasz at 11:40 AM on September 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 11:40 AM on September 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
The degree to which Reddit is better than Chans is debatable. They're reluctantly responsive to legal threats to their existence is about the best is say of them, where a Chan would be all "fuck it all, damn the torpedoes".
posted by Artw at 11:42 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 11:42 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
SansPoint: If Reddit is the Internet's Garbage Fire, 4chan is the Sewage Plant fire, and 8chan is the Nuclear Waste fire. Now, it looks like someone's routed the sewage into the nuclear waste dump, and set them both on fire.
I know this is a great over-simplification of the sites, but I like the imagery.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:43 AM on September 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
I know this is a great over-simplification of the sites, but I like the imagery.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:43 AM on September 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
Are any of the chans generating income for anyone or are they still moneypits?
posted by griphus at 11:44 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by griphus at 11:44 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Many of the other chans were founded to host content that wasn't allowed on 4chan or to accommodate people who got banned. That probably tells you everything you need to know about them.
posted by Mitrovarr at 11:45 AM on September 22, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by Mitrovarr at 11:45 AM on September 22, 2015 [12 favorites]
filthy light thief The "Garbage Fire" designation for Reddit is from the thoroughly awesome Sarah Jeong. The rest just follows.
posted by SansPoint at 11:45 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by SansPoint at 11:45 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
The chans are like colonialism. Very easy to say "what they are doing is bad". Much more difficult to avoid enjoying anything trained by it.
posted by rebent at 11:46 AM on September 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by rebent at 11:46 AM on September 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
I think they are essentially a charity for anyone who wants to make the world a worse place.
posted by Artw at 11:48 AM on September 22, 2015
posted by Artw at 11:48 AM on September 22, 2015
I can't help but imagine these words like stewardship and experienced leadership are being tossed off with a shit-eating grin.
posted by naju at 11:51 AM on September 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by naju at 11:51 AM on September 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
Hiroyuki Nishimura's next purchase will be the little known site he renamed MFChan.
posted by The Devil Tesla at 11:59 AM on September 22, 2015
posted by The Devil Tesla at 11:59 AM on September 22, 2015
I can't wait to look at 4chan /b/ . I assume they're in open revolt?
posted by double block and bleed at 11:59 AM on September 22, 2015
posted by double block and bleed at 11:59 AM on September 22, 2015
I can't wait to look at 4chan /b/ . I assume they're in open revolt?
I'm not going to check but I'd be surprised if they didn't like Nishimura more than they ever liked Moot. There's gonna be some ironic racism, tho.
posted by The Devil Tesla at 12:02 PM on September 22, 2015
I'm not going to check but I'd be surprised if they didn't like Nishimura more than they ever liked Moot. There's gonna be some ironic racism, tho.
posted by The Devil Tesla at 12:02 PM on September 22, 2015
"I can't wait to look at 4chan /b/ . I assume they're in open revolt?"
/b/ has always been openly revolting.
posted by komara at 12:02 PM on September 22, 2015 [16 favorites]
/b/ has always been openly revolting.
posted by komara at 12:02 PM on September 22, 2015 [16 favorites]
There's gonna be some ironic racism, tho.
"Ironic"
posted by maryr at 12:05 PM on September 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
"Ironic"
posted by maryr at 12:05 PM on September 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
Everything is "ironic" there. It's a great argument for no irony ever.
posted by Artw at 12:07 PM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 12:07 PM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
My knowledge of 2channel is necessarily second-hand; while there are strong parallels between it and the English-language chans, I know that there are significant differences as well: for example, I understand 2ch is much more mainstream than 4chan and has a wider array of boards and a better (though not sterling) reputation. So as interesting as this ownership shuffling is from an internet perspective, maybe some Japanese mefites can contextualize 2ch and Hiroyuki Nishimura better than I did in the OP.
posted by postcommunism at 12:08 PM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by postcommunism at 12:08 PM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
The only chan worth giving a frak about is Jackie.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:12 PM on September 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:12 PM on September 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
Yeah, my understanding from Japanese-speaking friends is that while 2channel's reputation wasn't sterling it was waaaay better than 4chan's. If anything it was close to Reddit's reputation - not great, but not hideously toxic to the level that 4chan is. Normal people actually participated in 2channel. "More mainstream" is a great description of it.
posted by Itaxpica at 12:23 PM on September 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Itaxpica at 12:23 PM on September 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Normal people participate on 4chan too. Most of what people associate with 4chan is basically the /b/ part of 4chan.
posted by I-baLL at 12:24 PM on September 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by I-baLL at 12:24 PM on September 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Sorry for this. Mr. Chan kind of more like a hard-core Republican Uncle who just has to ruin turkey day.
posted by bonehead at 12:25 PM on September 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 12:25 PM on September 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's been many years since I visited 2ch.net, but the talk was that it had become a hotbed of anti-Chinese and anti-Korean racism and a favourite haunt of the netouyo, the internet-connected far-right wingnuts (ネトウヨ from ネット/ netto = net, 右翼/ uyoku = right wing). Not that everyone in 2ch is a right winger, but that they have a comfy home in the boards.
On the other hand, some good has come out of 2ch.net too.
posted by sukeban at 12:26 PM on September 22, 2015
On the other hand, some good has come out of 2ch.net too.
posted by sukeban at 12:26 PM on September 22, 2015
some good:
posted by maryr at 12:35 PM on September 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
Densha Otoko...based on the purportedly true story of a 23-year-old otaku who intervened when a drunk man started to harass several women on a train. The otaku ultimately begins dating one of the women.To be perfectly honest, this sounds like the set up of every other harem anime.
posted by maryr at 12:35 PM on September 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
Several years ago someone set up a site that hosted the "best" wallpapers on 4chan. It was a bit mind-numbing to surf through, sorting out all the anime and porn, but I must have gotten a couple hundred really decent desktop wallpapers. I tried /wg when that site shut down but just opening felt like exposing myself to Hep C.
Now if I feel like getting new wallpapers I go to Reddit's Imaginary Landscapes. Pretty mundane but so much safer.
posted by Ber at 12:45 PM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Now if I feel like getting new wallpapers I go to Reddit's Imaginary Landscapes. Pretty mundane but so much safer.
posted by Ber at 12:45 PM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
That old /wg/ archive is down? The infinite scrolling one? That site had plenty of great stuff! (Admittedly, as mentioned, buried in an avalanche of anime and porn.) What a shame.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:59 PM on September 22, 2015
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:59 PM on September 22, 2015
I can't wait to look at 4chan /b/ . I assume they're in open revolt?
They've been voicing concern over data mining but have mostly been arguing about what to call Hiroyuki ("Chinese moot" seems to be the current favorite) and debating whether Hiroyuki is a newf*g or an oldf*g since he did invent the site that moot copied to make 4chan.
posted by Blue Meanie at 1:12 PM on September 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
They've been voicing concern over data mining but have mostly been arguing about what to call Hiroyuki ("Chinese moot" seems to be the current favorite) and debating whether Hiroyuki is a newf*g or an oldf*g since he did invent the site that moot copied to make 4chan.
posted by Blue Meanie at 1:12 PM on September 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
This is high on the list with Trump running for president with things that if you told me in 2005, i never would have believed.
Like holy shit, wtf.
It's been many years since I visited 2ch.net, but the talk was that it had become a hotbed of anti-Chinese and anti-Korean racism and a favourite haunt of the netouyo, the internet-connected far-right wingnuts (ネトウヨ from ネット/ netto = net, 右翼/ uyoku = right wing). Not that everyone in 2ch is a right winger, but that they have a comfy home in the boards.
So... /pol/?
That shit is so right wing there might as well be swastikas on it sometimes.
posted by emptythought at 2:02 PM on September 22, 2015
Like holy shit, wtf.
It's been many years since I visited 2ch.net, but the talk was that it had become a hotbed of anti-Chinese and anti-Korean racism and a favourite haunt of the netouyo, the internet-connected far-right wingnuts (ネトウヨ from ネット/ netto = net, 右翼/ uyoku = right wing). Not that everyone in 2ch is a right winger, but that they have a comfy home in the boards.
So... /pol/?
That shit is so right wing there might as well be swastikas on it sometimes.
posted by emptythought at 2:02 PM on September 22, 2015
Sounds like it's time to trot out a brief history of /wg/ scrapers (assume all links are NSFW):
In the beginning (~2008), there was 4scrape (archive.org link to the about page, explains the how and why).
In 2009, 4scrape died, due to creator fatigue.
Out of the ensuing panic, (because even then nobody liked digging thru the terrible pile of reposts that is /wg/), came at least 6 replacement /wg/ scrapers.
The popular ones were 4walled.org (currently on at least its 2nd iteration) and wallbase.net (later wallbase.cc, both down due to the owner disappearing from the net). wallbase was later re-constructed by staff as wallhaven.cc (still up).
A less popular one is nik.bot.nu (still up).
Both wallhaven and nik.bot allow users to tag scraped images as sfw, "sketchy" or nsfw, and have somewhat SFW initial gallery displays. As far as I know, both also have duplicate / similar wallpaper detection, and will link you to other versions of a given wallpaper when they can. (Useful for when someone color-shifts, crops, overlays text, etc on a given wall.)
posted by t3h933k at 2:38 PM on September 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
In the beginning (~2008), there was 4scrape (archive.org link to the about page, explains the how and why).
In 2009, 4scrape died, due to creator fatigue.
Out of the ensuing panic, (because even then nobody liked digging thru the terrible pile of reposts that is /wg/), came at least 6 replacement /wg/ scrapers.
The popular ones were 4walled.org (currently on at least its 2nd iteration) and wallbase.net (later wallbase.cc, both down due to the owner disappearing from the net). wallbase was later re-constructed by staff as wallhaven.cc (still up).
A less popular one is nik.bot.nu (still up).
Both wallhaven and nik.bot allow users to tag scraped images as sfw, "sketchy" or nsfw, and have somewhat SFW initial gallery displays. As far as I know, both also have duplicate / similar wallpaper detection, and will link you to other versions of a given wallpaper when they can. (Useful for when someone color-shifts, crops, overlays text, etc on a given wall.)
posted by t3h933k at 2:38 PM on September 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
At least there's another target for time-travelling do-gooders: Hitler first and then the grandfather of 4chan.
"Hiroyuki is a pioneer in the world of anonymous communities, and can be thought of as the great-grandfather of 4chan. His creation of 2channel in 1999 sparked an era of anonymous-centric web culture in Japan that led to the creation of Futaba Channel, the site that inspired 4chan. None of us would be using 4chan today—or potentially any anonymous image board—if it weren't for him."
posted by Docrailgun at 2:43 PM on September 22, 2015
"Hiroyuki is a pioneer in the world of anonymous communities, and can be thought of as the great-grandfather of 4chan. His creation of 2channel in 1999 sparked an era of anonymous-centric web culture in Japan that led to the creation of Futaba Channel, the site that inspired 4chan. None of us would be using 4chan today—or potentially any anonymous image board—if it weren't for him."
posted by Docrailgun at 2:43 PM on September 22, 2015
> moot turns 360 degrees and walks away?
Backwards. Slowly.
posted by archagon at 3:49 PM on September 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Backwards. Slowly.
posted by archagon at 3:49 PM on September 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Nishimura's supposed to be doing a question an answer session tonight, questions posted here, answers here.
Current leading nickname is "Mootwo".
posted by lucidium at 5:06 PM on September 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Current leading nickname is "Mootwo".
posted by lucidium at 5:06 PM on September 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
From those threads:
Also confirms that Jim Watkins takeover of 2ch was hostile, and says a lawsuit is pending.
posted by postcommunism at 6:46 PM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Q: ASUKA OR REIAmong less polite questions.
A: Asuka
Q: Asuka or Rei?
A: [ignored]
Q: Nishimura-san, do you prefer Asuka or Rei?
A: I don't know why you guy like EVA so much. It was 20 years ago?
Q: Asuka or Rei?
A: you.
Q: Asuka or Rei?
A: Actually, Rei is not human being. You like non-human, don't you?
Q: tell me about bane, why does he wear the mask?
A: do you think he is ugly?
Q: Are you a big guy?
A: 173cm
Q: Rei or Asuka? [picture]
A: Rei's hairstyle is not like this.
Also confirms that Jim Watkins takeover of 2ch was hostile, and says a lawsuit is pending.
posted by postcommunism at 6:46 PM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Are there any chans that aren't horrible? Or is there a guided-tour of the chans? An aerial tour of the chans? I mean some of the stuff I hear about them has to be hyperbole, right?
If I go to a chan will I wake up in an ice-tub without organs is what I'm saying
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:04 PM on September 22, 2015
If I go to a chan will I wake up in an ice-tub without organs is what I'm saying
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:04 PM on September 22, 2015
Are there any chans that aren't horrible?
Absolutely. Like reddit they have boards based on specific interests and each can be benign or feral depending on the users and subject matter. I've long aged out of /b/ on 4chan but still like to hang out and give advice on /fit/ now and then. 2chan can get really nasty but they still love cats (NSFW ads).
posted by Blue Meanie at 7:34 PM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Absolutely. Like reddit they have boards based on specific interests and each can be benign or feral depending on the users and subject matter. I've long aged out of /b/ on 4chan but still like to hang out and give advice on /fit/ now and then. 2chan can get really nasty but they still love cats (NSFW ads).
posted by Blue Meanie at 7:34 PM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ray if you want to see what 4chan (maybe mostly /b/) is like without exposing yourself to illegal content, there's reddit.com/r/4chan that has reposts.
posted by thoughtslut at 9:26 PM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by thoughtslut at 9:26 PM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
2chan can get really nasty but they still love cats
Indeed, an international language.
posted by maryr at 9:18 AM on September 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Indeed, an international language.
posted by maryr at 9:18 AM on September 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
"So, 4chan has kinda now become 2channel, and 2channel has become 8chan."
How long 'til 8chan becomes 16chan?
posted by klangklangston at 5:46 PM on September 23, 2015
How long 'til 8chan becomes 16chan?
posted by klangklangston at 5:46 PM on September 23, 2015
So confusing seeing people referring to Hiroyuki as "Nishimura-san". It's technically correct, of course, but he's gone by "Hiroyuki" for so long (over 15 years now!) it's like hearing a bunch of people referring to the actor as "Reeves" instead of "Keanu".
As far as what kind of character 2ch in general has, it's far, far, far more like Reddit than any of the English chans. When I did used to read 2ch, it was to get recommendations for good snorkeling sites and ski lodges and the like. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't really imagine someone going to an English-language chan to find information like that. The thing that makes it unlike Reddit, and more like a Chan, is that it's all anonymous. It would have to be, really, since Japanese are far, far, far more concerned about privacy than westerners. Non-anonymous message board (especially between 1999 and 2010) = completely empty message board.
sukeban: "It's been many years since I visited 2ch.net, but the talk was that it had become a hotbed of anti-Chinese and anti-Korean racism and a favourite haunt of the netouyo, the internet-connected far-right wingnuts (ネトウヨ from ネット/ netto = net, 右翼/ uyoku = right wing). Not that everyone in 2ch is a right winger, but that they have a comfy home in the boards."
Yes...ish. I mean, yes, totally. I can't read the site because all the Korea-bashing in unrelated threads makes my blood boil. But it's trolling. And I know y'all are thinking "ironic racism is the same as real racism, there's no difference between trolling racism and non-trolling racism", and, yes, I agree that the people posting the stuff are super racist, but it's a very different dynamic from, say, racist Reddit sites. It's basically racist spamming. People will copy and paste the exact same unrelated racist screeds in all kinds of threads. So it's not a bunch of people sitting around coming up with new racist insults and zingers and vileness, like on Reddit, but more like a few people who are like "I'll just copy and paste this screed from Notepad into 50 or 60 random threads real quick before I go to work to piss people off." They wouldn't do it if they weren't racist, but the racism isn't, from what I can see, what gives them drive.
Put another way: On Reddit, racists gather in racist subreddits to talk to other racists. On 2ch, from what I've seen, racists just drop into random other boards to post racist screeds for nonracists to see.
But, yeah, it's totally shitty. And kinda like how on Reddit, people who dig Reddit but aren't racist/sexist/etc. say "Don't ever read /all, you're crazy!", people who dig 2ch say "Don't read 2ch from the browser, you're crazy! Use one of the many 2ch reader apps with filtering capabilities".
posted by Bugbread at 8:50 AM on September 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
As far as what kind of character 2ch in general has, it's far, far, far more like Reddit than any of the English chans. When I did used to read 2ch, it was to get recommendations for good snorkeling sites and ski lodges and the like. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't really imagine someone going to an English-language chan to find information like that. The thing that makes it unlike Reddit, and more like a Chan, is that it's all anonymous. It would have to be, really, since Japanese are far, far, far more concerned about privacy than westerners. Non-anonymous message board (especially between 1999 and 2010) = completely empty message board.
sukeban: "It's been many years since I visited 2ch.net, but the talk was that it had become a hotbed of anti-Chinese and anti-Korean racism and a favourite haunt of the netouyo, the internet-connected far-right wingnuts (ネトウヨ from ネット/ netto = net, 右翼/ uyoku = right wing). Not that everyone in 2ch is a right winger, but that they have a comfy home in the boards."
Yes...ish. I mean, yes, totally. I can't read the site because all the Korea-bashing in unrelated threads makes my blood boil. But it's trolling. And I know y'all are thinking "ironic racism is the same as real racism, there's no difference between trolling racism and non-trolling racism", and, yes, I agree that the people posting the stuff are super racist, but it's a very different dynamic from, say, racist Reddit sites. It's basically racist spamming. People will copy and paste the exact same unrelated racist screeds in all kinds of threads. So it's not a bunch of people sitting around coming up with new racist insults and zingers and vileness, like on Reddit, but more like a few people who are like "I'll just copy and paste this screed from Notepad into 50 or 60 random threads real quick before I go to work to piss people off." They wouldn't do it if they weren't racist, but the racism isn't, from what I can see, what gives them drive.
Put another way: On Reddit, racists gather in racist subreddits to talk to other racists. On 2ch, from what I've seen, racists just drop into random other boards to post racist screeds for nonracists to see.
But, yeah, it's totally shitty. And kinda like how on Reddit, people who dig Reddit but aren't racist/sexist/etc. say "Don't ever read /all, you're crazy!", people who dig 2ch say "Don't read 2ch from the browser, you're crazy! Use one of the many 2ch reader apps with filtering capabilities".
posted by Bugbread at 8:50 AM on September 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
You load 16chan, what do you get?
Considerable prejudice against anyone not white male cis het.
posted by Artw at 9:15 AM on September 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
Considerable prejudice against anyone not white male cis het.
posted by Artw at 9:15 AM on September 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
Put another way: On Reddit, racists gather in racist subreddits to talk to other racists. On 2ch, from what I've seen, racists just drop into random other boards to post racist screeds for nonracists to see.
As somebody who's been on Reddit for a good while I can assure you that dropping into other boards to post racist screeds is totes a Reddit thing also.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:15 PM on September 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
As somebody who's been on Reddit for a good while I can assure you that dropping into other boards to post racist screeds is totes a Reddit thing also.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:15 PM on September 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ah, okay. I wasn't aware of that. Is it copy-paste stuff, or is it more hand-crafted and targeted? Like, on 2ch, literally, you'll have a thread where people are talking about the relative merits of different skateboard manufacturers, and someone will post a huge copy-paste screed about the Sea of Japan/East Sea naming dispute, with absolutely no connection, even a fig-leaf connection, to skateboards. My Reddit image is more like people are talking about X, and someone will post something about why X is a SJW or the like.
posted by Bugbread at 7:29 PM on September 24, 2015
posted by Bugbread at 7:29 PM on September 24, 2015
It's more that the idea that racist boards serve as some kind of "containment" for racists who will chill out in their own area and not bother the rest of the site is nonsense. They'll go whereever they're able to post, and do.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:31 PM on September 24, 2015
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:31 PM on September 24, 2015
Sure, I get that, but what I'm asking is is it tailored to the topics in which it's deployed, or is it unrelated stuff?
posted by Bugbread at 7:37 PM on September 24, 2015
posted by Bugbread at 7:37 PM on September 24, 2015
> Put another way: On Reddit, racists gather in racist subreddits to talk to other racists. On 2ch, from what I've seen, racists just drop into random other boards to post racist screeds for nonracists to see.
I don't think this is quite the case on Reddit, but it does sort of point at a different in how racism is expressed between Reddit and 4chan, which difference is down to the logic behind each platform. Basically, successful posts on 4chan rely on inciting a response; successful posts on Reddit rely on earning community approval. 4chan displays comments in a fixed, chronological order and slowly slides threads into oblivion unless they're kept aloft by new replies; Reddit allows you to approve or disapprove of threads and comments without even commenting, and that collective approval will actually determine how prominently a given thread or comment is displayed to Reddit at large. (It's more complicated in each case, but that's the short version.)
So while the guy who spams racist copypasta definitely exists on both platforms, on Reddit you'll see him less often because wall-o-text will usually get downvoted. What you see instead is both /r/coontown types and your average redditors peppering the frontpage with racist comments that are more, uh, appropriate to the conversation. There's certainly evangelical racism (although I guess all racism is evangelical when you get down to it), but there's also the fact that if you've been on Reddit for any length of time you know that you can earn community approval points (literally tracked and quantified for you) by posting a hilarious joke about black people or a faux-rueful comment about crime statistics. So when a picture with a PoC kid makes the front page, Joe Redditor makes a karma grab with a witty link to /r/blackfathers.
(Although I haven't seen a /r/blackfathers joke in a while, so maybe the purge helped with that?)
posted by postcommunism at 12:43 PM on September 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't think this is quite the case on Reddit, but it does sort of point at a different in how racism is expressed between Reddit and 4chan, which difference is down to the logic behind each platform. Basically, successful posts on 4chan rely on inciting a response; successful posts on Reddit rely on earning community approval. 4chan displays comments in a fixed, chronological order and slowly slides threads into oblivion unless they're kept aloft by new replies; Reddit allows you to approve or disapprove of threads and comments without even commenting, and that collective approval will actually determine how prominently a given thread or comment is displayed to Reddit at large. (It's more complicated in each case, but that's the short version.)
So while the guy who spams racist copypasta definitely exists on both platforms, on Reddit you'll see him less often because wall-o-text will usually get downvoted. What you see instead is both /r/coontown types and your average redditors peppering the frontpage with racist comments that are more, uh, appropriate to the conversation. There's certainly evangelical racism (although I guess all racism is evangelical when you get down to it), but there's also the fact that if you've been on Reddit for any length of time you know that you can earn community approval points (literally tracked and quantified for you) by posting a hilarious joke about black people or a faux-rueful comment about crime statistics. So when a picture with a PoC kid makes the front page, Joe Redditor makes a karma grab with a witty link to /r/blackfathers.
(Although I haven't seen a /r/blackfathers joke in a while, so maybe the purge helped with that?)
posted by postcommunism at 12:43 PM on September 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
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So, 4chan has kinda now become 2channel, and 2channel has become 8chan.
posted by bonehead at 11:22 AM on September 22, 2015 [6 favorites]