Welcome to 2015, gentlemen. Everyone is on their phone all the time.
October 2, 2015 8:38 AM   Subscribe

After a pair of baseball announcers roasted a group of selfie-taking women, members of the Alpha Chi Omega sorority at Arizona State University, in the stands at an Arizona Diamondbacks baseball game, SBNation fires back: Taking photos at sporting events isn't worthy of ridicule. It's simply how fans in the 21st century document moments of their lives.
posted by everybody had matching towels (203 comments total) 13 users marked this as a favorite
 
Fuck these announcers.

*takes selfie*
posted by Fizz at 8:40 AM on October 2, 2015 [7 favorites]


I'm conflicted. I feel like the announcers are more than just a little bit sexist here. At the same time you have to wonder why they're even there to begin with. In any case, I'm old and so who cares what I think.
posted by tommasz at 8:43 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


I think it would be super great if people could stop talking to me about selfies forever. I have absolutely no problem with a person taking a picture of themself and I can't see why anyone would.

I swear to God I am going to punch the next person who starts talking about how much they hate someone else's mode of harmless fun. It's apparently the new American pastime.

Also, focused on churros instead of the game? Have you BEEN to a baseball game?
posted by selfnoise at 8:43 AM on October 2, 2015 [83 favorites]


Those girls are having fun and socializing at a baseball event - exactly what I did in the late 80s, except without phones. Let 'em have fun.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 8:43 AM on October 2, 2015 [30 favorites]


From what I've heard about this event, the in-stadium announcer had just previously encouraged people to take selfies just before these two guys started dissing the selfie-takers.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:44 AM on October 2, 2015 [19 favorites]


FFS, have these guys been to a baseball game? Don't these guys attend them professionally? There is a lot of time to do things other than watching baseball at a baseball game. You can go get a beer! You can meet the mascot! The Diamondbacks' stadium has a fucking pool in it! Of course they were taking selfies, it was the beginning of the 4th inning, that's about when the excitement of being in the stadium is wearing off but there is still more than half a game left. Maybe the announcers and cameramen should be paying attention to the game instead of looking for sorority chicks in the stands. Jesus fucking churros on a stick, what dickheads.
posted by maryr at 8:45 AM on October 2, 2015 [27 favorites]


It's unusual for my Facebook feed to not have a selfie from a sporting event. On any given day some friend or relative is at a Baseball/Hockey/Football/Basketball game and posts a group selfie. One of my oldest friends is a die-hard Royals fan and her profile pic is a selfie from a game.
posted by octothorpe at 8:46 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


The announcers weren't making fun of the selfies because they were selfies. They were making fun of the fact that ALL of the girls were doing the same thing, which included taking multiple selfies, with weird duck faces, over and over and over.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:47 AM on October 2, 2015 [13 favorites]




Let 'em have fun.

Ha, ha, I see you've misunderstood. They're not enjoying the game in the way I, an older white male, think they ought to be enjoying it. You see?
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 8:47 AM on October 2, 2015 [94 favorites]


I like it when people complain about selfies. It is an easy way for me to know that they are a garbage person who hates fun.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:48 AM on October 2, 2015 [24 favorites]


dear tommasz
i care what you think...I am old too. what is a selfine? does it make you blind?
posted by Postroad at 8:48 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


There is a lot of time to do things other than watching baseball at a baseball game.

Homer Simpson, watching baseball without beer.
posted by clawsoon at 8:48 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


I think about this poem I stumbled across on Tumblr here, a lot:

“Your generation would probably ‘livetweet’ the apocalypse” you say, and you laugh
You mean it as an insult, and I understand,
Or you don’t
because the word lies awkwardly on you tongue, stumbles as it leaves your lips, air quotes visible
You meant it as an insult, so you don’t understand, when I look into your eyes and say “Yes”
Because we would.
It would be our duty, as citizens on this earth
to document it’s end the best way we know
and if that means a second by second update
of the world going up in flames, or down in rain, or crushed under the feet of invading monsters
so be it.
It would mean a second by second update of
“I love you”
“I’m scared”
“Are you all right?”
“Stay close”
“Be brave”
It would mean a second by second update of the humanity’s connection with one another,
Proof of empathy, love, and friendship between people who may have never met in the flesh.
So don’t throw the word 'Livetweet’ at me like a dagger, meant to tear at my 'teenage superiority’
Because if the citizens of Pompeii, before they were consumed by fire,
had a chance to tell their friends and family throughout Rome
“I love you”
“I’m scared”
“Don’t forget me”
Don’t you think they’d have taken the chance?
posted by mhoye at 8:49 AM on October 2, 2015 [163 favorites]


The Great American Pastime
posted by Atom Eyes at 8:50 AM on October 2, 2015


I rather liked what Amanda Hess at Slate had to say: What have we learned today? Men like to look at young women. Young women like to look at themselves. Men don't like it when young women look at themselves. But they don't dislike it enough to stop looking at them when they're looking at themselves.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 8:50 AM on October 2, 2015 [92 favorites]




The announcers weren't making fun of the selfies because they were selfies. They were making fun of the fact that ALL of the girls were doing the same thing, which included taking multiple selfies, with weird duck faces, over and over and over.

So what? Members of a highly social species act like highly social species, news at 11!
posted by zombieflanders at 8:52 AM on October 2, 2015 [5 favorites]


Betcha Vinnie wouldn't have done that.
posted by Sokka shot first at 8:53 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


I like baseball. I sometimes go to baseball games by myself and just like...watch baseball,* but seriously people. It's a baseball game, there's a lot to do that isn't watch baseball and if you're getting het up about people who aren't interfering with your enjoyment, you're the problem. Add in the gross gender angle and, yeah, these guys need to shut up.

*When I'm alone it's a 50/50 toss up between "serious baseball watching Bulgaroktonos" and "live tweets people's reactions to his drunken antics Bulgaroktonos."
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:54 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


zombieflanders, I don't know. Maybe I am old fashioned, but having your head in your phone at a ball game is not highly social. Put the damn phone down.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:54 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


You realize phones are socializing tools, right? I've even sent and received snap chats at baseball games I was with when we were too far away to talk to each other comfortably, and I'm pretty old as these things go.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:56 AM on October 2, 2015 [16 favorites]


The announcers weren't making fun of the selfies because they were selfies. They were making fun of the fact that ALL of the girls were doing the same thing, which included taking multiple selfies, with weird duck faces, over and over and over.

Can I use this as the basis for a "WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CAAAAAAAAAAAARES" pony request flag? Seriously, who gives a fuck what they were doing? Attacking a group of young women at a baseball game for how they are presenting themselves is a dick move and, unless they're hurting anyone or actively preventing them from enjoying the game by being loud or obnoxious, it's really no one's effing business.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 8:56 AM on October 2, 2015 [47 favorites]


Kids today, etc, etc....
posted by freakazoid at 8:56 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Perhaps reading the SBNation article in the FPP would help?
Welcome to 2015, gentlemen. Everyone is on their phone all the time. Baseball is a game with a lot of breaks and using that downtime to capture a fun moment with your friends shouldn't make you the topic of a two-minute call-out. It just makes you a human in the 21st century.

Ironically, this mockery took place right as the broadcast team was pitching the T-Mobile Fan Photo promotion that encouraged fans to send in their pictures from the ballpark to be used on the broadcast. The promotion exists because people take their phones to game and snap photos of themselves, their friends, and their family enjoying the game. This group of women were doing just that. They paid for their ticket and seemed to be having a great time with one another. That's what everyone should get out of a baseball game. Why would anyone want to participate in this promotion if they know they might be mocked for it?
posted by zombieflanders at 8:57 AM on October 2, 2015 [32 favorites]


There once was a time when women weren't supposed to read novels, either, because novels - and remember that this meant, for instance, Pamela, so things we'd consider classic and important today - pulled women away from the real world and put too much focus on emotions and individuality. Women also weren't supposed to be reading, because they ought to be anticipating and meeting others' needs.

(Admittedly, this critique of novel-reading did get applied to everyone - novels were supposed to mess you right up - but it was most forcefully directed against women.)

Another nice thing about selfies and dinking around on phones generally - where people used to make a lot of noise and make lots of personal calls on the train, etc, now they are all quietly clicking away and I can read my book in peace.

Normally, of course, at a baseball game I would be simultaneously reading Wittgenstein, solving algebra problems in my head and rhythmically contracting my calves to improve my circulation, so I can see why taking selfies would be viewed as a waste of time.
posted by Frowner at 8:57 AM on October 2, 2015 [24 favorites]


You realize phones are socializing tools, right?

Sure, I just myself am frustrated with how people tend to live their lives on the phone now. But here I am typing on the internet instead of doing my training run, so, bye. LOL.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:58 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


Anyway, it makes me really sad when old people (mostly men) deride the ways young people (mostly women) express themselves and connect with each other, because, Christ on a Crutch, more people expressing themselves and connect with each other in new ways is fantastic and wonderful and obviously, prima facie good and better than their not doing that.

The older I get the more I think age is mostly a choice about what you're willing to accept might be good or even great, even if it's different and not what you did when you were 22, and at this point I hope I'll be telling old people to go to hell well into my eighties.
posted by mhoye at 8:58 AM on October 2, 2015 [10 favorites]


zombieflanders, I don't know. Maybe I am old fashioned, but having your head in your phone at a ball game is not highly social. Put the damn phone down.

I mean, you're welcome to feel irritated by people not enjoying baseball games the way you want them to, I guess, although it seems like a silly use of your time, but you don't really get to impose your baseball-game-watching standards on other people and that is what these announcers were attempting to do when they called negative attention to what these young women were doing.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 8:59 AM on October 2, 2015 [10 favorites]


I have very few candid pictures of myself before the advent of digital photography, relatively speaking. There's a bunch up to the point I turned five or six, but then money got way too tight for film and development and after that, candid pictures of my family become really rare. So I never got into taking pictures, including a completely photo-less trip to Europe when I was 18, and any images of me between high school and getting together with my husband (who had a digital camera way back then) were taken by other people and just occasionally show up tagged with my name on Facebook, like ghosts from the past.

I'm making up for lost time, but I'm really envious that kids today have such great photo records of their lives. It's really special to be able to see yourself as you were.
posted by padraigin at 8:59 AM on October 2, 2015 [24 favorites]


zombieflanders, I don't know. Maybe I am old fashioned, but having your head in your phone at a ball game is not highly social. Put the damn phone down.

STARE STRAIGHT AHEAD, STOP SMILING

THIS IS HOW WE ARE SOCIAL
posted by shakespeherian at 9:00 AM on October 2, 2015 [62 favorites]


If i were any of these women I would be tweeting selfies of my upraised middle finger at these announcers every hour on the hour for the rest of the day.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:00 AM on October 2, 2015 [23 favorites]


Sure, I just myself am frustrated with how people tend to live their lives on the phone now.

Why? That seems squarely in the category of "something that doesn't affect you." I mean, if they're driving and texting, sure. But when they're out with their friends or by themselves?

Well, my rule of thumb is, if I get angry at something that has nothing to do with me and doesn't affect me, there's a very good chance that I'm the one with the problem.
posted by maxsparber at 9:01 AM on October 2, 2015 [13 favorites]


Is going to an event and then ignoring the event really something that can't be criticized?
posted by smackfu at 9:01 AM on October 2, 2015


If I was attending an event that averages 3+ hours with maaaaybe a half-hour of actual action at best, I'd welcome having something to distract me and my friends. That's not "living my life on a phone," that's a better way to defeat boredom.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:02 AM on October 2, 2015 [7 favorites]


Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I prefer things the way they used to be in my mind as opposed to how things are now.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 9:02 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


Again, they had just been encouraged, along with everyone else in the stadium, to do EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE DOING. They weren't "ignoring the event" they were PARTICIPATING IN IT.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:03 AM on October 2, 2015 [52 favorites]


Everything is problematic
posted by crank at 9:03 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


Is going to an event and then ignoring the event really something that can't be criticized?

It can be criticized, but, again, there is a real possibility that the critics are being dicks.
posted by maxsparber at 9:03 AM on October 2, 2015 [10 favorites]


If I was attending an event that averages 3+ hours with maaaaybe a half-hour of actual action at best, I'd welcome having something to distract me and my friends. That's not "living my life on a phone," that's a better way to defeat boredom.

This is why I drink so much at baseball games! And MeFi meetups. And Tuesdays.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 9:03 AM on October 2, 2015 [33 favorites]


cmoj you can pry my churros from my cold dead fingers.

Selfies are silly and maybe a bit narcissistic but the damn announcers should have been glad those ladies bothered to show up to the game at all. Baseball is a dying sport unless they can interest someone other than old white men in watching it. Way to undermine your own sport. Sheesh.
posted by Wretch729 at 9:03 AM on October 2, 2015 [5 favorites]


Also yes let's not overlook the fact that baseball is a game that can be compressed down to a box score and a seven-second highlight reel and that if I put down $100 saying that not one single time in its entire storied history has anyone given an entire game their undivided attention, not even people who are paid millions of dollars every year to do that, that I would certainly keep my money.
posted by mhoye at 9:03 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


I mean if the thing is baseball, you can't really criticize, even the old dudes scoring the game and listening to the radio call on giant headphones go get beers every once and a while.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:04 AM on October 2, 2015


Of course, baseball announcers have to find stuff to fill the down-time with, too.
posted by AndrewInDC at 9:04 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


They weren't "ignoring the event" they were PARTICIPATING IN IT.

PLUS the fact that the camera was on them and not the players leads me to believe there wasn't a whole lot of gameplay down on the field right then.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 9:05 AM on October 2, 2015 [27 favorites]


If the MLB is really throwing their trademark lawyers at fan-generated gifs, then they are idiots. How does it help the MLB if I watch a clip on their website? There doesn't seem to be any advertising for anything but their own products, so they aren't making money from the eyeballs. Isn't it just pure hosting costs for them? Don't we all benefit if I watch a 100K gif on Twitter instead? Do they think Twitter is making extra money from their content? I honestly don't understand why the MLB wants to prevent tweets from an economic standpoint.
posted by maryr at 9:05 AM on October 2, 2015


I took my Girl Scouts to a White Sox game this summer and had to try to corral two of them who sprinted up and down the stairs of our section for FOUR HOURS straight in over 90 degree heat. What I wouldn't have given for them to sit and make duckfaces into their phones for the whole time instead.
posted by phunniemee at 9:05 AM on October 2, 2015 [7 favorites]


Jim Bouton admitted in Ball Four that a lot of players actually fell asleep in the dugout during baseball games.

I love baseball, but, good lord, it does not require undecided attention.
posted by maxsparber at 9:05 AM on October 2, 2015 [5 favorites]


Douchebag sports announcers Kids today, etc, etc....

Fixed.
posted by Fizz at 9:06 AM on October 2, 2015


i mean my GOD why can't people just come out and say that they think young women are vapid and vain and foolish and mockable in everything they do and in every moment of their existence rather than just try to find ways to make it seem like they're making well-reasoned criticisms? no one is fooled.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:06 AM on October 2, 2015 [73 favorites]


It can be criticized, but, again, there is a real possibility that the critics are being dicks.

Who announces the announcers?
posted by maryr at 9:08 AM on October 2, 2015 [4 favorites]


I hate that this video made the rounds. Embarrassingly bad behavior by the booth. Good on everybody calling them on their bullshit.

If you want to hear an announce team having some fun instead, listen to my Metsies' from the same night.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:09 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Go look at an old (pre-cameraphone) photo of yourself at some event or monument or whatever that somebody else took. Look at yourself, standing there, smiling awkwardly, not at your best angle, weirdly cropped. You're blinking, of course, and what are you doing with your arms there?

Now look at some young person's self-curated selfie at a comparable location, and tell me who looks like more of a goober.

The selfie is a boon to humankind.
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:10 AM on October 2, 2015 [18 favorites]


GRAAR.

Did I do it right?
posted by djeo at 9:10 AM on October 2, 2015 [6 favorites]


Alpha Chi Omega at Arizona State University would like to thank the Arizona Diamondbacks and Fox Sports for reaching out to the chapter after last night’s game and subsequent media frenzy. We appreciate their generous offer of tickets to tonight’s game. However, instead of chapter members attending the game, we have asked the Diamondbacks and Fox Sports to provide tickets to a future game for families at A New Leaf, a local non-profit that helps support victims of domestic violence.
Today, October 1, marks the beginning of Domestic Violence Awareness Month. If everyone who viewed this statement took the time to make a donation in recognition of domestic violence awareness, which is Alpha Chi Omega’s national philanthropy, we would be so grateful! We are happy to have the opportunity to shed some positive light on such a sensitive subject. All proceeds will go directly to A New Leaf to help struggling Arizona families get back on their feet by providing housing, food, childcare and more. You can donate using the link below. We appreciate your support!
http://donate.billhighway.com/DVAwareness
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:13 AM on October 2, 2015 [144 favorites]


Well done, ladies.
posted by maryr at 9:14 AM on October 2, 2015 [5 favorites]


To be fair baseball is pretty boring.
posted by Gwynarra at 9:14 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


i love it when amazing shade is thrown in the service of true philanthropy.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:14 AM on October 2, 2015 [50 favorites]


The only valid complaint I can think of for taking selfies at a baseball game is that you might get a foul ball or homerun in the face because you're not paying attention. This is actually a pretty serious issue in baseball, especially since the spate of similar fan injuries that have had attention drawn to them in 2015 (and previously).

That being said, such a possibility is true of any distracting behaviour.

In any case, the behaviour of the announcers is not acceptable in any way. I'm going to file this along with all the other things that make most modern TV (and some radio) baseball announcers just plain awful. Absolutely not cool.
posted by LoRichTimes at 9:17 AM on October 2, 2015


When we have this conversation about people using cameraphones at gigs, it goes very differently.
posted by colie at 9:21 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Anybody who's band's performance resembles in length or torpor a typical baseball game is lucky to have someone show up and pull their phone out.
posted by cortex at 9:22 AM on October 2, 2015 [47 favorites]


My daughter posted the following on her facebook feed recently:

"I'm so pro-selfie.
There are so many bigger problems in this world than girls who think they are pretty.
One of those is girls who DONT think they are pretty.
#takeaselfie"
posted by rocket88 at 9:23 AM on October 2, 2015 [73 favorites]


Anybody who's band's performance resembles in length or torpor a typical baseball game

Bruce Springsteen
posted by colie at 9:24 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


FWIW I was at One Direction two nights ago and the number of fans doing phone stuff was markedly down since a few years back. The band also used to ask for Tweets in-gig etc and have now stopped all that stuff.
posted by colie at 9:26 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


PLUS the fact that the camera was on them and not the players leads me to believe there wasn't a whole lot of gameplay down on the field right then.

Not only that, but the seats behind them are empty. Not only that, but I watch enough sports to know that when the director (or producer?) directs a camera to focus on a minor human-interest story in the stands, and the commentators are allowed/encouraged to comment on the goings on in the stands at length, and this is what's being broadcast live on the teevee screen, not the sports matchup going on on the field -- they have pretty much officially declared the game boring, either because it is boring and no one cares anymore, or because it's a blowout and no one cares anymore.

This game wasn't a blowout -- it was 1-0 in the 4th inning when the cameras turned to the young women. The message then is that making fun of them was more important, and of more value to the viewer, than the game in progress.

That's gross, and I don't think you can remove the gender element from it. The commentators laudably refrained from using the words "dumb girls," but I imagine it took some willpower.
posted by mudpuppie at 9:27 AM on October 2, 2015 [29 favorites]


Bruce Springsteen

Truth be told, I mostly find live music more boring than live baseball, but I was convinced to see Springsteen a couple of years ago, and it was a hell of a show. Longer than a nine-inning game, though, I'll give you that.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:28 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


Bruce stands on the stage. He waits. He waits. And then: the drummer lifts his left stick. He lifts it, he glances at the bassist. He glances at the bouncer. Back to the bassist. Brings it down with a shot. The snare reports! Bruce says the word "Omaha"! He attempts a Gm chord, but his fretting hand is off by JUST a touch and he fouls into a Csus2. No joy, the crowd's excited cheer turns into a moan. That's the end of the fourth song. The keyboardist begins to play an unrelated tune while everybody spends a few minutes switching instruments.
posted by cortex at 9:28 AM on October 2, 2015 [50 favorites]


...but I was convinced to see Springsteen a couple of years ago, and it was a hell of a show.
posted by griphus at 9:29 AM on October 2, 2015


Fun fact. I've never taken nor have been sent a selfie. Pretty sure there are 80 year olds out there that cannot lay that claim.

I was really hoping one of those girls in the middle was Amy Schumer and the whole thing was a creative promo for her show. I have a lot of ideas for your show Amy, I think you should hire me as a writer, hope you can still read long hand.
posted by any major dude at 9:30 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


The average MLB game contains 14 minutes of real action. Are we really blaming the spectators here?
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:31 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


I believe the women in this case have shown great disrespect towards the institution of baseball, and do not belong in the stadium.

I also believe the announcers have shown great disrespect towards the institution of baseball, and do not belong in the stadium.

I, myself, have no respect for the institution of baseball, and that's why I never go to a stadium.

Baseball, like classical opera, should be appreciated in grim silence. Anything else shows a lack of decorum.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:32 AM on October 2, 2015 [15 favorites]


So the announcers take a break from watching the game to turn the camera on some girls, and then get upset to find them doing the exact same thing.

How dare they film and enjoy themselves when they're supposed to be there for men to film and enjoy?
posted by straight at 9:32 AM on October 2, 2015 [22 favorites]


At this point I wish to note my disapproval of these women for violating the boycott of MLB for the lockout that stole the world series from the Montreal Expos. That this happened before they were born is irrelevant.
posted by srboisvert at 9:32 AM on October 2, 2015 [8 favorites]


"At the same time you have to wonder why they're even there to begin with."

I know! It's the fucking Rockies! Playing the D-Backs! Those probably weren't even selfies — they were a desperate attempt to get Liam Neeson to rescue them.
posted by klangklangston at 9:33 AM on October 2, 2015 [24 favorites]


I like it when people complain about selfies. It is an easy way for me to know that they are a garbage person who hates fun.

I just hate narcissism and the term "selfie".

But I was watching Heroes Reborn tonight, and I kept seeing annoying interstitial ads for "live tweet @heroes #heroesreborn" and I was wondering if people don't just do one thing at a time anymore.

I may be old. I am grumpy.
posted by Mezentian at 9:37 AM on October 2, 2015 [4 favorites]


At the same time you have to wonder why they're even there to begin with. In any case, I'm old and so who cares what I think


This was TWO MINUTES of a three hour event. For all we know the rest of those three hours they spent rapt with attention and worshipped the sport properly.

Yet for some reason everyone is assuming they did this the entire time. Which maybe they did, but it really shows your own personal biases if that's your assumption.
posted by mayonnaises at 9:38 AM on October 2, 2015 [6 favorites]


Whenever I go to a D-league basketball game (a sport that is actually enjoyable to watch live in a concentrated fashion, and not a tailgating party inside a stadium with occasional dangerous projectiles), I never have an issue with people chatting, or taking pictures, or playing with their kids, or whatever. It's part of the fun! If you want to gaze in perfect concentration on every play, just watch on your TV at home, it's a much better experience for that criteria.

The only time I was bothered was when some fratboy was heckling a player, and that was mainly because I became more convinced over the course of the game that this player was eventually going to come over and just choke the guy out. Or I was going to choke the guy out. SOMEBODY was going to do some choking.
posted by selfnoise at 9:39 AM on October 2, 2015


I never really did one thing at a time.
posted by maxsparber at 9:39 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


Also, outside of Vin Scully (hallowed be his name), Rod and Mario for the Tigers, and a handful of other teams (Giants, Orioles, Mets), MLB television announcers are all stump-fucking mouth breathers. That these ones were confused by and resentful of young women having fun is more par for the course than an exception. There's a reason why muting the TV and listening to the radio calls is generally still worth it despite the weird sync lag.
posted by klangklangston at 9:39 AM on October 2, 2015 [11 favorites]


outside of Vin Scully (hallowed be his name), Rod and Mario for the Tigers, and a handful of other teams (Giants, Orioles, Mets), MLB television announcers are all stump-fucking mouth breathers

The Mets won the NL East! Positive: playoff baseball is back! Negative: national broadcast teams. Ugh.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:41 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


Both my bookstore and the 7-11 across the street sell 'selfie sticks.' I refer to them as the Staff of Narcissism.
posted by jonmc at 9:42 AM on October 2, 2015 [5 favorites]


It's just as much about habits as everything else in life. Duck faces are silly and everybody pretty much knows that but they do it because making that face in a selfie is a thing you do sometimes, if you're young and it's 2015. Taking selfies is a thing you do because what else do you post on Twitter and Facebook? And everybody around you expects you to be on social media. You don't have to like that, but that's the environment that young people exist in. It's not any more frivolous than anything else young people have ever done over the years. Why did so many teenagers who didn't have much in the way of money used to spend so many hours at the mall? If young people aren't doing things that seem weird and inexplicable by the standards of most people over 40, they're doing it wrong. I don't know what it'll be next, but it'll always be something.

The weird part to me is that I'm 34 and seem to have thus far not caught the "kids these days" bug about this sort of thing, and I don't do well with social media but I'm really fascinated by what all this technology means for today's high school and college kids, and I don't fundamentally get how anybody can be so mean-spirited as to want to publicly humiliate young people for failing to be exactly the same sorts of teenagers we were. Or so completely amnesiac as to forget how vain and self-centered we absolutely could be. (And if you weren't that, you had other failings to make up for it.)
posted by Sequence at 9:45 AM on October 2, 2015 [7 favorites]


You got it wrong. Those girls aren't being oblivious idiots - they're just being openly disdainful of you and your bullshit culture and the boring things you care about. It's OK, common mistake.
posted by naju at 9:45 AM on October 2, 2015 [26 favorites]


I refer to them as the Staff of Narcissism.

I do not joke: coming at Christmas are "Selfie Drones".
posted by Mezentian at 9:45 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


teach yourself to loathe the sight of your own visage, youth, lest the sin of Vanity come to nest in your fragile soul
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:50 AM on October 2, 2015 [17 favorites]


I really do not understand the accusation that selfies are narcissism given how disruptive it used to be to get a picture of yourself somewhere. "Hey, can you take our picture? Okay [brief training course in how camera works], and [describe general desires regarding composition of photograph]...cheese! - oh, crap, I think my eyes were closed, can you do one more? Oh, no, you have to turn the thing, no that other thing, great! Cheese! Thank you! Did you want us to do yours?" The whole time, standing up in front of...whatever.

My mother, as she handed over 30 rolls of 35mm film for my 5-week roam through Europe after college graduation, said, "I'm not paying for all these to be developed unless at least a few of them have you in them." It has long been normal and expected to take pictures to mark events, occasions, and visits to things. It is only new that the photographer and subject can instantly decide whether the shot is acceptable, and therefore does not have to go through life with a picture of themself making a weird face in front of the Eiffel Tower.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:51 AM on October 2, 2015 [19 favorites]


Why did so many teenagers who didn't have much in the way of money used to spend so many hours at the mall?

Because that's where video arcades were. Then home consoles killed arcades and there was no reason to go to malls anymore, and that's why malls are dying nationwide.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:55 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


You forgot [really hope the person doesn't just run the fuck off with the camera]
posted by griphus at 9:56 AM on October 2, 2015 [6 favorites]


I do not joke: coming at Christmas are "Selfie Drones".

Why wait til Christmas?
posted by paper chromatographologist at 9:56 AM on October 2, 2015



Both my bookstore and the 7-11 across the street sell 'selfie sticks.' I refer to them as the Staff of Narcissism.



They should sell Staves of Plural/Singular Agreement instead.
posted by srboisvert at 9:57 AM on October 2, 2015 [10 favorites]


Is this really that big of a deal either way? The sorority is using the attention to get funding to people who need it. Good for them - smart, saavy and an honorable way of channeling this into a positive.

End result seems good here, but I guess that's the wrong takeaway.
posted by glaucon at 9:58 AM on October 2, 2015


So in the pre-selfie days did you all scream NARCISSISM at people asking others to take a holiday photo of them at tourist attractions, or at parties, or any time humans get together for fun and recreation? I hope you mock all your friends and relatives regardless of their gender for every photo of themselves they have ever posted on facebook, or showed to you in a scrapbook, or have put on their mantel.

Nurse takes photo of mom, dad, and new baby? MY GOD LOOK AT THESE PATHETIC NARCISSISTS DESPERATE FOR ATTENTION! You and your own friends posing together for a photo at your college graduation? TRAVEL BACK IN TIME TO SPIT IN YOUR OWN FACE YOU WORTHLESS SELF-ABSORBED SWINE. Grandma wants a photo of herself surrounded by her loving family? FUCK OFF GRANDMA YOU DISGUST ME WITH YOUR VANITY.
posted by poffin boffin at 10:01 AM on October 2, 2015 [57 favorites]


Baseball, like classical opera, should be appreciated in grim silence. Anything else shows a lack of decorum.

No, no, no. To truly appreciate baseball you must hurl invectives at the players, much as they hurl the ball, impugning their skills, parentage, or personal hygeine. "YOU SMELL AS BAD AS YOU CATCH AND YOUR MOM SAYS YOU SHOULD TAKE A SHOWER!" is an excellent baseball taunt. If you aren't throwing wadded up newspapers at the TV while the camera zooms in on the third base coach scratching his junk, then you aren't watching right. True baseball fandom requires maintaining constant levels all five Kübler-Ross stages of grief. Most true baseball fans die of a heart attack caused by years of stress, beer, and, finally, a fumbled double play after the pitcher has walked the bases full putting the go-ahead run on second. They are cremated and buried in an urn bearing the registered trademark of their hometown team (if it hasn't moved) during the off-season.
posted by maryr at 10:03 AM on October 2, 2015 [23 favorites]


It just seems far more narcissistic to stop strangers and ask them to take your photo, which is what we used to do, than to take your own photo. That always felt to me like, OH, I AM SO IMPORTANT THAT CAPTURING MY IMAGE MUST TAKE TIME OUT OF YOUR DAY, STRANGER.

But none of it ever seemed all that narcissistic to me. I mean, people's houses have mirror. Do you walk around and think, good lord, these people love to look at themselves! Can't we just stare at the walls in the dark like the properly modest!
posted by maxsparber at 10:05 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


*Checks maryr's profile location*

Okay, story checks out.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:05 AM on October 2, 2015 [6 favorites]


in my day we just gouged out our own eyes lest we espy an idolatrous image of our filthy sinful selves
posted by poffin boffin at 10:06 AM on October 2, 2015 [15 favorites]


I like how the announcer was like "LOL LOOK AT THE GIRLS!" and then said "I can't even get my phone to take pictures!!"

Yes, Mr. Sports Guy, brag about how ignorant you are as you make fun of people who you will one day depend on to help you use your remote control.
posted by bondcliff at 10:07 AM on October 2, 2015 [10 favorites]


Okay, story checks out.

yeah i was gonna say, the only place on earth i would ever consider going to a ballgame is definitely boston.
posted by poffin boffin at 10:08 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


End result seems good here, but I guess that's the wrong takeaway.

I think the thing is that there are a lot of end results:

1) Shelter supporting victims of domestic violence is getting funding -- good!
2) Attention is being brought to the way these announcers spoke about these young women and hopefully they will behave differently in the future and maybe even think more carefully about assumptions they are making -- good!
3) These women were mocked for doing something innocuous -- bad!
4) The message was sent to a large group of people, especially young women, that they are judged for how they behave whenever they are in public even if what they're doing isn't hurting anyone -- bad!
5) The fact that it was public figures broadcasting this means that this behavior is normalized and more people think it's okay to judge young women they don't know based on not really much of anything -- bad!

...and other stuff, too. Sure, some of the end results are good, but it's not that simple, and stuff like this happens hundreds of times a day, all over the country and all over the world, and most times it doesn't get pushback like this, and so we mostly get options three, four, and five and women feel more and more self-conscious and less willing or able to have fun or even exist in public and everyone feels more and more like it's okay to judge women and make them feel badly about their behavior.

It's not as simple as "something crappy happened and we turned it into a positive". Stuff like this happens all the time and constantly reinforces misogynistic messages.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:08 AM on October 2, 2015 [22 favorites]


i think calling women who take selfies narcissists is one of those tell-tale "this says way more about you than the person you're talking about" things.

also this whole thing reminds me of one of the stated, sidebarred rules at r/creepshots - the women couldn't know you were taking their picture, if they became aware of it, then they became conceited, and that ruined the image. some men really can't stand that women might enjoy themselves and notice that they are attractive.

also also i guess they should have been more respectful of the sport like this guy

and finally - recently i went to an npr crowd music show and every single person holding their phone or tablet up - on full brightness -for most of the show were over 50 years old and when they weren't holding it up they were checking facebook.
posted by nadawi at 10:13 AM on October 2, 2015 [14 favorites]


I love baseball, and I take it pretty seriously. Yet, I love that watching a game at the park affords me the time and luxury to enjoy my surroundings and my friends and overpriced concessions. I haven't the slightest problem with these women, or anyone else, taking selfies at the game - that shit is fun. I'm jealous - they are clearly having a blast at a game which is one of the great pleasures of late summer. Documenting your life is a totally valid and enriching aspect of experiencing it. The announcers clearly have a (probably unintentional) misogynist slant to this whole thing.

All that being said the video of them all taking selfies IS notable and funny - a bunch of people un-self-consciously doing goofy and slightly private stuff (not that a selfie is private, but it IS intimate, somehow - I can't articulate it but I can't be alone on this?) all at the same time tickles me. I enjoyed this video, and laughed at it even as I was mad at curmudgeonly announcers and the way in which THEY laughed at it.
posted by dirtdirt at 10:14 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


I'm making up for lost time, but I'm really envious that kids today have such great photo records of their lives. It's really special to be able to see yourself as you were.

I'm one of the photographers for my kid's marching band. Every game or event results in about 300-500 images between the 3 of us, and that's after editing. A lot of them are basically "selfie-faces," the same old group photos of friends. Of course we try to get some of the performance as well, but you can't really take a meaningful picture of an entire band show. What you get are pictures of 3-5 kids in a section doing part of the drill.

Seems a little mundane and repetitive sometimes, but there are maybe 5-10 photos of me from my high school marching band days, and 1-2 of me with any given friend of mine at one of these events.

I was cleaning out an old box 2-3 years ago when I was moving, and found a picture of another high school friend sitting on a charter bus with a girl that he later married. She had died of cancer a few years ago, and I contacted him asking if he'd like this picture.

When he got it, he said "this picture is from the senior trip which was the first time we really talked to each other."

So yeah.
posted by randomkeystrike at 10:14 AM on October 2, 2015 [16 favorites]


it also reinforces that women have to respond to this bullshit with never ending grace and charity.
posted by nadawi at 10:15 AM on October 2, 2015 [39 favorites]


Actually, if I'm honest, I don't go to baseball games anymore. I never LOVED baseball as a sport but I enjoyed going and I had fun hanging out and drinking beer (which I usually don't do) and sitting with my friends, and I've stopped because almost every time I went something happened that made me feel sad. This was usually something about how I was putting my feet on the railing, or stepping over seats, the exact same things my male friends were doing only no one ever said anything to them.

I realized I dreaded going to baseball games because something basically always happened that made me feel bad about myself and it just wasn't worth it so, like, yeah, stuff that makes women feel uncomfortable at sports games does have a negative effect on people, assuming the group "people" also includes "women".
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:18 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


i think calling women who take selfies narcissists is one of those tell-tale "this says way more about you than the person you're talking about" things.

And what if you think EVERYONE who "take selfies" is a narcissist?

Admittedly I notice more (young) girls doing it, but my thought process is much the same regardless of gender.

(Again: old and grumpy).
posted by Mezentian at 10:19 AM on October 2, 2015


When we have this conversation about people using cameraphones at gigs, it goes very differently.

Golly wonder why? Because you can clearly see that the women in this story aren't fucking up anyone's night vision or occluding anyone's view? Because a baseball stadium has tiered assigned seating? Because the baseball stadium is set up in a way to encourage you to get up and down and move around already, and even provides people huckstering up and down the aisle to sell you shit - sometimes in ways that demand your participation if you're between the buyer and the aisle?

There's a mile of distance between stop enjoying things wrong and stop doing things that actively interfere with my enjoyment of this.
posted by phearlez at 10:22 AM on October 2, 2015 [11 favorites]


I mean I can't stand baseball so I'm pretty neutral on the specific incident location but if someone wanted to selfie shit up at El Clasico I'd be like, whatevs, you do you, just please don't take a photo of me waving a stuffed shark impaled on a stick and screaming MUERTE AL TIBURON at Suarez.
posted by poffin boffin at 10:23 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


yeah, i think if you think self portraits or selfies or whatever are narcissistic then that's something about you not them and i also think it's ignorant to ignore the gendered way these complaints usually come up.
posted by nadawi at 10:31 AM on October 2, 2015 [6 favorites]


And what if you think EVERYONE who "take selfies" is a narcissist?

Well, I guess the questions is if you think it is everyday, healthy narcissism, in which case, so what? I mean, repeatedly discussing yourself in a thread is a bit on the narcissistic side, because it presumes that other people will be interested in you, but we all do it a little, because a little bit of narcissism makes for some interesting conversation.

But if you think it is unhealthy narcissism, well, that's a pathological condition, but thankfully it only affects only about 7 percent of the population -- probably much smaller than the number of people who take selfies, and, believe me, selfies are the least of their problems.

So, statistically, it not terribly likely that everybody who takes selfies is an unhealthy narcissist, and we have just addressed your concerns with science!
posted by maxsparber at 10:39 AM on October 2, 2015 [19 favorites]


There's a mile of distance between stop enjoying things wrong and stop doing things that actively interfere with my enjoyment of this.

With gigs, the accusation didn't used to be 'phone users are narcissists', it used to be 'they're not being totally immersed in the moment, and that affects my overall enjoyment of the moment.'

phearlez: most peoples' experience of gigs is in sports arenas.
posted by colie at 10:41 AM on October 2, 2015


So, statistically, it not terribly likely that everybody who takes selfies is an unhealthy narcissist, and we have just addressed your concerns with science!

Well, I think this will end the narcissism wars.
Peace in our time since you "scienced the shit" out of this problem, as the kids might say.

And who am I to argue with SCIENCE! Even if I still lean to it being an issue of 'generational' norms. Damn young'uns.
posted by Mezentian at 10:47 AM on October 2, 2015


even if the location is the same, pretty much every single thing about a concert and a baseball game are different, not to mention the other points - that there was no one else around them and they had been specifically instructed to take selfies right then.
posted by nadawi at 10:48 AM on October 2, 2015 [9 favorites]


And what if you think EVERYONE who "take selfies" is a narcissist?

I took a bunch of selfies on my vacation to New Mexico in spring. I had to, because I was alone, and I wanted a picture of myself on my first real vacation in over a decade, because I was so very happy and I wanted to document that happiness because sometimes happiness is fleeting, and in subsequent months during times of deep stress and heartache, it has done me a world of good to look at a picture of myself smiling near some old ruins.

I guess it's fine if you can look at that situation and still cheerfully call me a narcissist, but please know I am not thinking kindly about your character while you call me names for doing something really fucking harmless.
posted by palomar at 10:53 AM on October 2, 2015 [19 favorites]


"On 'selfie girls' and alienating your fans"

i thought this was a very nice piece from sbnation written by a woman linking the women at the d-backs game to the bigger picture of women sports fans (casual or otherwise) and their treatment by the MLB and other leagues
posted by burgerrr at 10:54 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


I agree that gigs are more fun when people get their phones out and of course nobody should be criticising these fans - although this seem to have eased off a bit lately and the gigs I have been to lately were not running competitions during the show etc. However 'phones are no problem do what you like, you paid to be here' is an opinion that many artists seem to disagree with, unlike sports players.
posted by colie at 10:56 AM on October 2, 2015


That having been said, this is a post about a thing that happened at a sports game, so maybe let's let the "yes but what about gigs" thing lie at this point.
posted by cortex at 10:57 AM on October 2, 2015 [6 favorites]


Also, outside of Vin Scully (hallowed be his name), Rod and Mario for the Tigers, and a handful of other teams (Giants, Orioles, Mets)


lol




though I say that as an A's fan soooo.
posted by Carillon at 10:59 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


(Again: old and grumpy).

Why is this an excuse, though? Narcissism doesn't just mean "does things differently than I used to". Unless there are zero pictures in existence of any member of your generation, "wanting to record your activities photographically" is not a new phenomenon, nor one that indicates excessive self-involvement as compared to other generations who did much the same thing. Old and grumpy could very well say that the photographic composition of selfies is terrible and the lighting is often bad and whatever, but to say they represent some kind of character flaw in the younger generation is not just grumpiness. You, and you're biased about this in your own favor almost certainly, realize that you notice it more when girls do it, and you think it's a character flaw.

You might have very well spent a very, very long time internalizing those feelings you have about women, there, but they are not an inevitable product of age or crankiness. "Old and grumpy" is not a reason to let sexism stand, any more than it would be for racism. Which I don't mean to be totally personal: This is true for everybody. We grew up with our biases and over time they get entrenched, and at some point we have to start asking where those things came from and what they mean. If you stop doing that and just put everything down to "I'm old and I can't ever be a better person than I am right now", then it will certainly become true, but that's not someone ELSE'S character flaw.
posted by Sequence at 11:02 AM on October 2, 2015 [23 favorites]


Selfies at baseball games? Please. Media usage at baseball games is for serious things, like someone throwing pizza at a guy who spilled his beer all over himself.

And classy move by the sorority.
posted by rmd1023 at 11:10 AM on October 2, 2015 [6 favorites]


Fun fact. I've never taken nor have been sent a selfie.

I've never taken a picture of myself using my iPhone, but I have taken a pile of pictures of myself with digital camera to show off knitting pieces I made on the knitting social network Ravelry and some pictures of my husband and I together at various tourist attractions so I really can't judge.

Also, having studied art history, I'm well aware that artists have been documenting their own faces since antiquity and who the fuck are we to argue with such a harmless and innate human compulsion.
posted by Squeak Attack at 11:10 AM on October 2, 2015 [5 favorites]


It's basically the same thing as that girl who responded to online compliments with agreement and acknowledgment that yes, she was cute, and yes, she did have beautiful eyes, or whatever physical attribute that men took it upon themselves to send unsolicited compliments about. And then the men were like "wow you stuck up bitch" because she hadn't been appropriately fawning, because she had dared to agree that she had anything compliment-worthy about herself. When women acknowledge their own worth, it diminishes that worth in men's eyes, even when men were the first to acknowledge that worth themselves.
posted by poffin boffin at 11:10 AM on October 2, 2015 [37 favorites]


When women acknowledge their own worth, it diminishes that worth in men's eyes

I am always boggled that some men can feel such contempt for someone and still want to fuck them.

Then I remember how we socially construct heterosexual sex as another expression of male domination over women, and it makes more sense to me. If she's not contemptible--if she's your equal instead--then she doesn't do as a way to prop up your male ego vis-a-vis your dick.

It's really men like this who are the narcissists. Take a look at your own fucking selves in the mirror, assholes.1

1 painted by a man of course
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 11:23 AM on October 2, 2015 [6 favorites]


who the fuck are we to argue with such a harmless and innate human compulsion

Seriously, you have to be pretty into looking at your own face to paint a self-portrait for, like, days. Selfies, in that context, are for those without the fortitude to examine themselves at any length.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:23 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


I'm making up for lost time, but I'm really envious that kids today have such great photo records of their lives. It's really special to be able to see yourself as you were.

This is actually why I finally caved and got a smartphone, oh so many years ago now - because I wanted a good camera in my pocket all the time (and yea, I could carry a digital camera but they were heavy and then you have to find the cable to hook them up and pull off the pictures and and). I send my wife stupid pictures of the dog, I take pictures of what I'm wearing that day, I take little videos of my mom because she is on her last legs. It's awesome and amazing and I love the future where I can do this all the time.
posted by joycehealy at 11:31 AM on October 2, 2015 [6 favorites]


However 'phones are no problem do what you like, you paid to be here' is an opinion that many artists seem to disagree with

The artist-audience relationship is not a scenario where "the customer is always right" because attendees are not customers in the retail or wedding-hall-rental sense. A ticket buys you access to attend but does not grant you ownership of the situation - you are still expected to respect the wishes of the artist whom you are purportedly excited to see.

That said, people taking videos of concerts is fairly standard these days and also a mark of the band's relevance. The real issue is when people use iPads or tablets which are so large that they actually block the view of others.
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:34 AM on October 2, 2015


yeah i was gonna say, the only place on earth i would ever consider going to a ballgame is definitely boston.

Our fans my be loud and our team might be bad (this year) but at least our stadium is still small enough that you can see the players.
posted by maryr at 11:36 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


I don't like baseball or selfies, do I win anything?
posted by numaner at 11:40 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


you win this yankees-logo-emblazoned selfie stick
posted by poffin boffin at 11:41 AM on October 2, 2015 [20 favorites]


second prize is two yankees-logo-emblazoned selfie sticks
posted by Elementary Penguin at 11:43 AM on October 2, 2015 [26 favorites]


at least our stadium is still small enough that you can see the players.

I lived in Boston for a number of years and one of the last things I did before I moved was reach over the right field wall and drag my cap through the warning track dirt. Probably not too many parks where you can do that. I can never wash that hat.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:44 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


third prize is you're fired.
posted by phearlez at 11:44 AM on October 2, 2015


no one leaves this thread without a yankees-logo-emblazoned selfie stick
posted by poffin boffin at 11:45 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


DAMMIT
posted by phearlez at 11:45 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


i need two of them so i can be holding one of them in the selfie with me
posted by burgerrr at 11:46 AM on October 2, 2015 [7 favorites]


Last time I went to an arena, selfie sticks were banned at the turnstile. But they were allowed in London Zoo, and it was mental.
posted by colie at 11:47 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


It exists!
posted by LoRichTimes at 11:49 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


If that were ten bucks cheaper it would be the best white elephant / Yankee swap (!!) gift.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:51 AM on October 2, 2015


what a time to be alive
posted by poffin boffin at 11:55 AM on October 2, 2015 [8 favorites]


Shouldn't the logo be the other way around, so it's in the selfie the right way?
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:55 AM on October 2, 2015


bottom of the ninth here at MetaFilterInc Stadium...Harmless-Fun tied-up 3-3 with the visiting They're-Narcissists...Harmless-Fun has a deep bench; they called up It's-All-About-Gender from the bullpen to try to finish this off...They're-Narcissists in a rally with two singles...the pitch, it's going long...AAAANNNNDDD...
posted by j_curiouser at 12:05 PM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


Hell yeah SB Nation. That is an awesome takedown.

I'm wondering if we can maybe try not to do the "baseball sucks" stuff in this thread? When "baseball is boring anyway" is used as a rebuttal to people who think it's okay to publicly ridicule women for daring to have fun at a game while female, it starts to feel like we're equating that with "being a baseball fan". When I go to games (as a female-presenting person), I get really excited and enthralled by the gameplay AND I might occasionally stop to take a selfie.
posted by capricorn at 12:06 PM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


I've always been pretty down on the whole greek system at universities, but I gotta say that this Alpha Chi Omega sorority sounds like a total class act. Good on them for making an issue of this, and for using the positive attention they garnered to help victims of domestic violence. Well played, ladies.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:08 PM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Any group of guys who are generally identifiable by their loud suits, twee beards and hair plugs should probably not be discussing other people's narcissism.
posted by bonobothegreat at 12:11 PM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


at least our stadium is still small enough that you can see the players.

I should correct myself. Our stadium is still small enough that you can see the players unless you bought Obstructed View tickets.
posted by maryr at 12:16 PM on October 2, 2015


Totally adding the selfie stick to my terrible secret santa presents tumblr, whee. (Guess I should start updating that again soon)
posted by maryr at 12:30 PM on October 2, 2015


It looks like the writer is a big Yankees fan. She should really know better than this.
This isn't "Old guys make fun of young women", this is "TV director searches for something to liven up an apparently boring game".

I don't watch much baseball now since it all seems to have moved to pay-tv, but I've seen announcers watch a guy try to unwrap a hot-dog, talk about a guy's sleeping position after he fell asleep in the upper deck and a kid chase a balloon up and down the stairs.
Hell, I have somewhere a 3 minute video of a guy trying to get a hoodie off without remembering it has a zipper.

This is killing dead air, not some patriarchal indictment of young girls.

Personally, I think it got a bit old when they went back to it after the pitch, but a lot of modern sports directors spend too much time on crown reaction.

But yeah, good on the sorority for using the publicity in a positive way. That's a class act.
posted by madajb at 12:30 PM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


I'm not sure why you think it can't be both.
posted by phearlez at 12:33 PM on October 2, 2015 [17 favorites]


This isn't "Old guys make fun of young women", this is "TV director searches for something to liven up an apparently boring game".

Yeah and they did it by making fun of young women. Just because they had an excuse doesn't make it not shitty.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 12:37 PM on October 2, 2015 [16 favorites]


Fizz: "Fuck these announcers.

*takes selfie*
"

Given the statement, shouldn't that be a dick pic?
posted by Samizdata at 12:38 PM on October 2, 2015


selfnoise: "Also, focused on churros instead of the game? Have you BEEN to a baseball game?"

One of the stations here compresses games into 30 minutes (Jays in 30) and you know what: there is still downtime. It's hilarious that anyone would think a live game requires 100% attention.
posted by Mitheral at 12:47 PM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


LoRichTimes: " This is actually a pretty serious issue in baseball, especially since the spate of similar fan injuries that have had attention drawn to them in 2015 (and previously)."

I wonder how long before there are nets like Hockey.
posted by Mitheral at 1:11 PM on October 2, 2015


There is a current lawsuit calling for the extension of the nets that are already in place.
posted by clorox at 1:21 PM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


i'm totally using the mandatory yankee selfie sticks to attack all of your selfie sticks!

SELFIE STICK RAMPAGE!!!
/archer
posted by numaner at 1:25 PM on October 2, 2015




Mitheral: One of the stations here compresses games into 30 minutes (Jays in 30) and you know what: there is still downtime. It's hilarious that anyone would think a live game requires 100% attention.

The WSJ did a calculation for NFL games which showed that they have 11 minutes of action in a 3-hour game. I wouldn't be surprised if baseball is similar.
posted by clawsoon at 1:27 PM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


I love my dad, but this thread made me realize what it would be like if he and his opinions were on MeFi. He's not, because he disdains all of this wasting your life on the internet rather than talk to real people face to face like we all did in the good old days.

It's great - he is as get-off-my-lawn about MeFi as some MeFi users are about women with smartphones taking selfies. There's always someone who thinks you're doing things wrong. (Funny how 'someone' is so often an older man.)
posted by harujion at 1:46 PM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


My 65-year-old mom just recently bought her first smart phone (she is pretty scared of technology and high phone bills, but finally caved because all of her friends in India are on a group WhatsApp chat.)

Unexpected side effect: she is having a blast taking selfies. It's her new favorite thing.

So yeah - I don't believe this is a "young people get off my lawn" issue, no matter what anyone claims. And narcissism is a red herring entirely. This is about fear of women controlling their own narratives.
posted by naju at 1:53 PM on October 2, 2015 [24 favorites]


I love my dad, but ... he disdains all of this wasting your life on the internet rather than talk to real people face to face like we all did in the good old days.

I've been put off by phone-created behavior changes -in public- (not so much the 'net) for many reasons. People on the street became so absorbed in them, IRL ceased to exist for them. They answered them in the middle of conversations (even in businesses!) demonstrating their priorities. They talked on them, loudly, in bookstores, buses, restaurants, funeral homes, concerts ... again as if there were noone else there. WTF people !!

To that extent their behavior was de-socialized AND offputting. Maybe your dad's REAL objection is to the rudeness and oblivion they've fostered. Glad to say it has improved somewhat recently ... but it seems overly Vulcanish to prefer data to relationships.
posted by Twang at 2:12 PM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


I am now trying super hard to think of what my mother's opinions on selfies would have been. On the one hand, one of the last actual conversations I remember having with her was about this new "Twitter" thing and she demanded I explain how it's not a complete waste of time and there were only like five people on Twitter at the time and I was totally unable to.

On the other hand, once we got a digital camera and I taught my mom how to angle it so that she didn't, ahem, "look fat," the "let's take pictures" segment at the end of every family dinner became an endless slog of "no I look awful take it again."
posted by griphus at 2:13 PM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Evidently suffragists used to annoy men by wearing bathing suits and eating pizza in the street. I think these women should be given free bourbon and pretzels, then spend the entire game taking selfies with them.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 2:16 PM on October 2, 2015 [7 favorites]




The one time I went to a baseball game, I don't remember very much except trying to eat as many hot dogs as I could, and sharing my cutest new stationary pens with my middle school classmates. And wandering around...having a front facing camera would've greatly improved the experience. Also fuck sexism and belittling of women's self embracing experiences.
posted by yueliang at 2:23 PM on October 2, 2015


I'm not sure I'd so glibly add the selfie to a tool of the feminist arsenal. My view is that it is an attempt to curate one's image for the consumption of others (both sexes) in the most aesthetically flattering light possible. That's why people take dozens upon dozens of them before settling on just the "right" one. In my view it's not an act of celebration of how one actually looks, it's an act of deliberate distortion.

I wish I could remember the details but I read an article a month or two ago about a woman who committed suicide because the carefully curated social media profiles of her peers had given her a distorted view of the daily perfection of their lives in contrast to her own.
posted by smithsmith at 2:33 PM on October 2, 2015


having your head in your phone at a ball game is not highly social.

It's also worth pointing out, while we're all here, that having your head in your phone is not highly possible. Unless you are very very angry in which case you can sometimes fit your mouth through the receiver, as cartoons surely would never lie to me.
posted by phunniemee at 2:33 PM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


My view is that it is an attempt to curate one's image for the consumption of others (both sexes) in the most aesthetically flattering light possible. {. . .} In my view it's not an act of celebration of how one actually looks, it's an act of deliberate distortion.

How is this different from literally any other social media act? When I post a picture of my cat to Facebook, I usually take five or six and use the best one. When I tweet a reaction to current events, I choose my words carefully to make sure I'm being as eloquent as possible in 140 characters. Even in this comment, I fixed typos. What would you have these people do, take one picture and say "welp, giant booger hanging out of my nose, but I guess I gotta be authentic in order to properly celebrate!"
posted by KathrynT at 2:39 PM on October 2, 2015 [26 favorites]


Selecting clothes to wear every day is an act of deliberate distortion. Thinking before opening your mouth to speak is a deliberate distortion. If you want to criticize how people deliberately present themselves to others, we'll be here all day long.
posted by naju at 2:41 PM on October 2, 2015 [19 favorites]


In my view it's not an act of celebration of how one actually looks, it's an act of deliberate distortion.

That's sort of a weird place to draw the authenticity line at, considering "take a bunch of photos of a thing and pick the best one" is from what I understand one of the basics of photography.
posted by griphus at 2:43 PM on October 2, 2015 [22 favorites]


are we also going to discuss how women who wear makeup are trying to TRICK PEOPLE
posted by poffin boffin at 2:46 PM on October 2, 2015 [39 favorites]


Good on those women for managing to find something fun to do at a goddamn baseball game - baseball is so fucking tedious.
posted by Cookiebastard at 3:17 PM on October 2, 2015


That's sort of a weird place to draw the authenticity line at, considering "take a bunch of photos of a thing and pick the best one" is from what I understand one of the basics of photography.

Since you're an expert in the basics of photography you'll also know that historically the selection process was undertaken by a photographer to best represent their view of reality, NOT by the subject of the photography.

Is it completely horrible to hope we can get to a place where we feel comfortable sharing both the best AND worst of ourselves and everthing in between, rather than continuing to pretend we are perfect, infallible beings?
posted by smithsmith at 3:19 PM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


I don't own nearly enough bongs to continue this argument on What Is Reality
posted by griphus at 3:21 PM on October 2, 2015 [27 favorites]


i woke up like dis
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:21 PM on October 2, 2015 [5 favorites]


I'm not sure I'd so glibly add the selfie to a tool of the feminist arsenal.

Meh. Heard it before:
In particular, these complaints feed off of the concern that selfies are the pinnacle of the passive narcissism and self-indulgence facilitated by social media. More than ever, the public perception of Gen Y seems to be a roving gang of Starbucks drinkers hardwired to their Instagram accounts.

However, it’s not a coincidence that many of the unsavory personality traits associated with a selfie obsession – being superficial, vain, lazy, or desperate – are also commonly used as misogynistic insults against young girls.
posted by palomar at 3:22 PM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


Since you're an expert in the basics of photography you'll also know that historically the selection process was undertaken by a photographer to best represent their view of reality, NOT by the subject of the photography.

See so the thing about selfies is that they are photographs taken of oneself. Hence the name! 'Selfies' refers to the 'self,' i.e. the photographer is also the subject. So the selection process is still undertaken by the photographer! Because the photographer is the subject. Because they're selfies!

The 'self' of 'selfie' is the photographer. They're the same thing. Both of them are the same person.
posted by shakespeherian at 3:34 PM on October 2, 2015 [22 favorites]


Do selfie sticks only take front camera pictures or can I use (or slightly modify) one to just get a better vantage point at the zoo when I am using the back camera? Does it even know which camera is being used or do I set that on my phone?
posted by soelo at 3:34 PM on October 2, 2015


QuiltingMuriel is 97 and takes selfies, so no, it's not an age thing. (Unfortunately, due to TwitPic's demise, these particular photos aren't available.)
posted by Lexica at 3:47 PM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


The $20 selfie stick I have had a Bluetooth trigger built into it that really just does the same thing as pressing the volume up button. So it'll take the picture however your camera is currently set, front or rear facing. Or it'll just turn the volume up if you're not in the camera.

And yeah I use mine for above the crowd shots and other angles for non selfies. It's great. And part of why when anyone starts with this "wand of narcissus" horseshit I always roll my eyes at them and tell them I have owned monopod sad a photographer for almost thirty years and why don't they eat [redacted].
posted by phearlez at 4:02 PM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


That's sort of a weird place to draw the authenticity line at, considering "take a bunch of photos of a thing and pick the best one" is from what I understand one of the basics of photography.

Ugh. Photography! You know what I fuckin' hate, is photography!
posted by atoxyl at 4:07 PM on October 2, 2015


Alpha Chi Omega at Arizona State University would like to thank the Arizona Diamondbacks and Fox Sports for reaching out to the chapter after last night’s game and subsequent media frenzy. We appreciate their generous offer of tickets to tonight’s game. However, instead of chapter members attending the game, we have asked the Diamondbacks and Fox Sports to provide tickets to a future game for families at A New Leaf, a local non-profit that helps support victims of domestic violence.

Today, October 1, marks the beginning of Domestic Violence Awareness Month. If everyone who viewed this statement took the time to make a donation in recognition of domestic violence awareness, which is Alpha Chi Omega’s national philanthropy, we would be so grateful! We are happy to have the opportunity to shed some positive light on such a sensitive subject. All proceeds will go directly to A New Leaf to help struggling Arizona families get back on their feet by providing housing, food, childcare and more. You can donate using the link below. We appreciate your support!


http://donate.billhighway.com/DVAwareness
posted by Cookiebastard at 4:09 PM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


the kids are all right
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:12 PM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


I'm actually *this close* to serious about how I feel about photography in general, but even to me it seems pretty silly to get upset about it if they aren't disrupting your experience or taking photos of you or making you look at their photos. As far as people at a baseball game paying attention to the field, that train has sailed. I love baseball but the leisurely pace and picnic atmosphere has always been long been part of the appeal. At least they weren't jabbering about their business deals.
posted by atoxyl at 4:18 PM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Do selfie sticks only take front camera pictures or can I use (or slightly modify) one to just get a better vantage point at the zoo when I am using the back camera? Does it even know which camera is being used or do I set that on my phone?

The selfie stick I have is basically a monopod with a clamp attachment to hold a cell phone and a remote to work the phone shutter (other models are Bluetooth enabled or have a cable that connects to the phone with a shutter button in the stick's handle). Switching between front facing and rear facing camera was simply a matter of making the selection on my phone. I've used it with my DSLR as well as a phone, and it's pretty handy as a tripod extension if I need an aerial shot and am using a lightweight camera. It's actually really handy, much more useful than hauling around a full tripod when I don't really need one.
posted by palomar at 4:20 PM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


I'm another one who has almost no pictures from high school until my late middle age. No a single photo from my European trip age 19. So I am loving the age of digital photography. No caps left on the lens. No yellowing from Polaroid instant pics. No $20.00 fee to develop a roll of overdeveloped film. I'm a bit jealous of my daughter and her friends who have taken hundreds of pictures of themselves and know just which lighting and just which angel and just which smile to look their best.

The young should enjoy youth, and if looking at themselves is fun and enjoyable, then I whole heartedly approve.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:28 PM on October 2, 2015 [7 favorites]


how dare people do something that requires anything but their full attention when attending a game of baseball, a sport that you can poop during without missing anything
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:31 PM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


My view is that it is an attempt to curate one's image for the consumption of others (both sexes) in the most aesthetically flattering light possible. That's why people take dozens upon dozens of them before settling on just the "right" one.

Yeah, not really, in my experience. I take selfies a lot. For so much of my life I was the one making the effort to capture photos of other people and rarely was the favor returned (except for when I was with my folks, my dad loooooves his camera). So from when I left the house for college in 1994 until phones with decent front-facing cameras existed, there are very few pictures of me. Is it narcissistic to wish that weren't so? To remember what I looked like in college? What my hair was like, what probably awful fashion I was wearing? To have keepsakes of memories of the things I did with me actually in them?

Anyway, the point is is that I take selfies. And to say that they are inherently carefully curated to make me look good is, well, laughable. Sometimes you just want to capture the before&after of your new eyebrow powder game, or drunken forced cat cuddling, or how sweaty you are after taking up running for the first time in a decade.

Instagram is my favorite social network because to me, the pictures my friends take (including of themselves) are such a wonderful, intimate glimpse of their lives, their passions and priorities and state of mind.
posted by misskaz at 4:34 PM on October 2, 2015 [16 favorites]


Baseball is like watching the grass grow, only there are guys playing catch on top of it. Of course they're taking selfies.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:21 PM on October 2, 2015


So yeah - I don't believe this is a "young people get off my lawn" issue, no matter what anyone claims. And narcissism is a red herring entirely. This is about fear of women controlling their own narratives.

May I take this opportunity to complain about all the old Boomers meandering around the grocery store staring at their phones instead of watching where they're going?
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:03 PM on October 2, 2015 [5 favorites]


misskaz your eyebrow game is indeed quite strong, internet fist bump for you
posted by palomar at 6:48 PM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


i freakin' love selfies despite not taking many of myself so if you have an instagram account and i'm not already following you and you want to share it, shoot me a memail.
posted by nadawi at 6:59 PM on October 2, 2015


So I can't make it through this whole thread, but in case it isn't already settled;

Speaking as a young person, I'm also kinda sad by things like this. It always feels to me like people my age (of any gender) are more inclined to treat events (baseball games, concerts, homecoming games, even parties) as less of a thing that you experience and more of a thing that you go to in order to use being there as a part of your public persona by way of selfies, tweeting, social media in general. I see it every time I go anywhere, people spending half the damned concert staring at a phone or at it through a phone screen. They can have fun however they like, I don't really care, it just seems like a hollow way to enjoy a thing to me, and it makes me sad that apparently we can't enjoy things anymore without using some (creepy, data-mining, sells-your-info) service to broadcast our enjoyment of it.

Also, fuck all of ya'll: Baseball is a fascinating sport to watch and anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand anything beyond "Hit ball/catch ball".
posted by neonrev at 9:19 PM on October 2, 2015 [4 favorites]


I'm 48 now and taking photos of myself is fraught with horror (there IS NO GOOD ANGLE anymore) but damn, I've got more than one lot of photos that I took of myself when I was about 21 lying on the loungeroom floor, arms extended, trying to catch a good one of me after applying masses of makeup. I had to wait a week to see if they turned out okay (they mostly didn't). So in conclusion I'd just like to say hooray for modern technology and ya boo sucks to you if you're an arsehole about selfies.
posted by h00py at 1:00 AM on October 3, 2015 [3 favorites]


So I can't make it through this whole thread

You really should have read the whole thread before commenting, because maybe if you had, you would have thought about how it's so often young women singled out for their vanity, or how these particular young women were actually encouraged by a promotion to be taking selfies at the game, how documenting oneself is valuable and has been around since like forever, and how they had handled the incident with thoughtfulness and class.

Baseball is a fascinating sport to watch

People can dislike things that you like. Also, another thing brought up in the thread is that even fans of baseball know there is a lot of downtime.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:33 AM on October 3, 2015 [10 favorites]


Funny how the threshold of unacceptable female vanity seems to be anything above "desperately needing a dude to tell her she's pretty."
posted by almostmanda at 9:03 AM on October 3, 2015 [11 favorites]


But only the one correct dude. If multiple dudes tell her, then she's vain again.
posted by jaguar at 9:45 AM on October 3, 2015 [7 favorites]


If we allow women to be famailiar and comfortable with their faces and bodies, how will we control them??!?
posted by Lyn Never at 10:50 AM on October 3, 2015 [10 favorites]


it just seems like a hollow way to enjoy a thing to me, and it makes me sad that apparently we can't enjoy things anymore without using some (creepy, data-mining, sells-your-info) service to broadcast our enjoyment of it.

Oh please. You think a few selfies are ruining the purity of enjoying baseball for itself? Not the giant advertising boards, enormous mega-malls posing as parks, constant bombardment of "text to this number and win a prize during the game" every time there's a down moment, the naming of everything under the sun after sponsors "The PNC Bank Skybox! The Chevron Lounge! etc. etc." and the [pierogi/sausage/pizza/other portable food] races?

Taking a few selfies is not going to be the thing that distracts anyone from pure-heartedly root root rooting for the home team in this day and age. Lord knows there are plenty of moments where critical attention to the game is not required. One could argue that filling those moments with a bit of self-documentation actually runs counter to the relentless commercialization of baseball, in fact.
posted by daisystomper at 11:45 AM on October 3, 2015 [3 favorites]


[Couple of comments deleted. "This has nothing to do with them being young women" is implausible on its face, ignores the links and the rest of the thread, and is just a fight-starter in this context.]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:46 PM on October 3, 2015 [14 favorites]


People can dislike things that you like. Also, another thing brought up in the thread is that even fans of baseball know there is a lot of downtime.
"Baseball is boring" is an opinion that doesn't add to the discussion. "Baseball has a lot of downtime" is not the same thing.
posted by clorox at 1:57 PM on October 3, 2015


You think a few selfies are ruining the purity of enjoying baseball for itself?

I can't help but laugh at the idea that baseball has any purity to lose. I've loved baseball since I was old enough to watch the game. But baseball is a sport that drummed out Curt Flood for trying to get paid what he deserved while leaving human garbage like Cap Anson in the Hall of Fame and Marge Schott in control of teams. It's got a long, awful history full of racism and bullshit, just like...pretty much everything else.
posted by protocoach at 2:26 PM on October 3, 2015


It always feels to me like people my age (of any gender) are more inclined to treat events (baseball games, concerts, homecoming games, even parties) as less of a thing that you experience and more of a thing that you go to in order to use being there as a part of your public persona by way of selfies, tweeting, social media in general.

I hate this kind of knee jerk judgmental crap, which seems to willfully ignore the fact that taking selfies, group photos, tweeting, posting to social media IS a part of the experience people want and choose to have. It may not be how you would choose to enjoy these things, but it is how they choose to enjoy it. They're building social ties, amplifying their experience, curating it, whatever. And we're not talking about someone taking selfies at a play or a classical music concert. It's a baseball game.

This always leads back to that tired trope, of "Ugh kids/people/whatever spend too much time on their phones not enjoying 'real life'" which is only a reasonable argument if you are in fact socializing with a specific person who is on their phone, ignoring you, and it's something that's problematic for your relationship with that other person. Otherwise, who cares? People have been ignoring each other for centuries. We've just developed more interesting ways to do it.

The only time I get irritated about someone being on their phone is when they're driving their car, or they're a pedestrian that steps into the middle of the road, right in front of my car, without looking.

Aside from that, you do you, or whatever kids these days are saying.
posted by litera scripta manet at 3:14 PM on October 3, 2015 [3 favorites]


Last night, my husband and I took a cooking class. Several couples took multiple selfies during the class. I rolled my eyes and thought they were annoying. But they probably paid as much for the class as we did and who am I to say that they were doing it wrong or not respecting the sanctity of couples cooking class? They didn't prevent us from enjoying the class. At the end, the instructor asked all of us to say something we learned during the class. Everyone had something interesting to say. So they got pictures and learned about cooking. Sounds to me like they did what they were supposed to do.
posted by kat518 at 5:33 PM on October 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


I can't help thinking about when my daughter was young--about 18 years ago when she was 4. At that time time there was a lot of moaning about how parents were too busy video taping events, like pre-school pageants- -to enjoy the moment. I did not have a video camera at the time, therefore I watched her performance when it occurred but I have only my memories. The parents who were busy video taping can watch their 4 year olds performing over and over.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:57 PM on October 3, 2015


Jumping off from kat518's comment, I wonder if it would have even registered if instead of a selfie it had been one of the people involved taking photos of the other people involved.

Which once again points the spotlight at the question of why it seems to be SO annoying and SO bothersome that people are taking photos of themselves. Earlier today I happened to walk through the grounds of the Palace of Fine Arts in San Francisco, and there was some kind of (I'm guessing) quinceañera celebration. OmiGOD were there photographers running around the site shooting photos of EVERYBODY. I'd be surprised if none of the photo have cranky old me ("I'm just trying to get to the Muni stop from the Presidio, what the hell are you all doing here?") in the background.

And somebody was paying for each and every one of those photographers. But somehow that's okay, while selfies aren't.
posted by Lexica at 8:27 PM on October 3, 2015 [4 favorites]


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