But I Want It
October 8, 2015 8:50 AM Subscribe
"Maybe you didn’t hear me. I really, really, really want it." Or, "The four conversations you can have with a small child."
4 begins:
Child: Where is Mom?
Me: Why do you need her?
Who is really at fault here?
posted by biffa at 8:54 AM on October 8, 2015
Child: Where is Mom?
Me: Why do you need her?
Who is really at fault here?
posted by biffa at 8:54 AM on October 8, 2015
Hmmm, template for MiFi contemptuous posts?
(substitute the 'e' with 'od' :-)
Me: BECAUSE I’M THE GROWN-UP AND I SAID SO NOW QUIT ASKING ME AND GO DO SOMETHING ELSE BESIDES TALK TO ME FOR THE LOVE OF GOD OR I WILL LITERALLY BLOW UP FROM SITTING ON MY ANGER AND IMAGINING HOW MUCH TROUBLE I WOULD BE IN IF I PULLED THIS SHIT WITH MY PARENTS IN 1978!!!!
posted by sammyo at 8:54 AM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
(substitute the 'e' with 'od' :-)
Me: BECAUSE I’M THE GROWN-UP AND I SAID SO NOW QUIT ASKING ME AND GO DO SOMETHING ELSE BESIDES TALK TO ME FOR THE LOVE OF GOD OR I WILL LITERALLY BLOW UP FROM SITTING ON MY ANGER AND IMAGINING HOW MUCH TROUBLE I WOULD BE IN IF I PULLED THIS SHIT WITH MY PARENTS IN 1978!!!!
posted by sammyo at 8:54 AM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
The fact that humans, as a species, do not murder our offspring on a regular basis is something that continues to astound me. Do other species have to put up with this shit?
posted by Hactar at 8:56 AM on October 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by Hactar at 8:56 AM on October 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
Up until this point I have literally never laughed out loud at something I read on the internet. That long streak has come to an end.
It's funny 'cause it's true.
posted by lucasks at 8:59 AM on October 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
It's funny 'cause it's true.
posted by lucasks at 8:59 AM on October 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
Child: I need it.
A friend's almost-three-year-old has started using this tactic; it works especially well against her grandparents. We were at their house a few weeks ago, and as I was walking through the kitchen, she told grandma, "I need the Goldfish for babyozzy."
A minute later she was sitting outside, next to babyozzy, eating Goldfish from the package and not offering any to babyozzy. Smart kid.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:01 AM on October 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
A friend's almost-three-year-old has started using this tactic; it works especially well against her grandparents. We were at their house a few weeks ago, and as I was walking through the kitchen, she told grandma, "I need the Goldfish for babyozzy."
A minute later she was sitting outside, next to babyozzy, eating Goldfish from the package and not offering any to babyozzy. Smart kid.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:01 AM on October 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
I am unfamiliar with this concept of parents apologizing to their children. This has never once happened in my lifetime. Do parents do this? Am I awake?
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:01 AM on October 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:01 AM on October 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
1) Redirection is a wonderful parenting technique. They should hand out pamphlets on it along with the diapers when you leave the hospital.
2) If you lose your temper (it happens to all of us), apologize, of course, but _don't give in_ just because you lost your temper.
3) Ask your Mom/What did Dad say is a huge cop-out. Again, we all do it, but you owe your spouse dinner or a back-rub or something when you pull that crap.
4) You probably shouldn't take parenting advice from the Internet.
posted by madajb at 9:02 AM on October 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
2) If you lose your temper (it happens to all of us), apologize, of course, but _don't give in_ just because you lost your temper.
3) Ask your Mom/What did Dad say is a huge cop-out. Again, we all do it, but you owe your spouse dinner or a back-rub or something when you pull that crap.
4) You probably shouldn't take parenting advice from the Internet.
posted by madajb at 9:02 AM on October 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
I'm having a different variation on the first one for my soon-to-be 3 year old. She is getting in to arguing now. Like, you tell her something and she's like "no, it isn't". This morning it was lemonade--she asked for lemonade, which we don't have. I tell her so: "sorry, no we don't have any lemonade." "YES WE DO!" she says, and opens the lemonadeless fridge and stands in front of it with a huge smile, knowing damned well there's no lemonade in there.
She also named her little dolly "Baby 7-11 O'Clock" this week, so there's that.
posted by Hoopo at 9:05 AM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
She also named her little dolly "Baby 7-11 O'Clock" this week, so there's that.
posted by Hoopo at 9:05 AM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Occasionally three-year-olds will say something ridiculously lucid, just to fuck with you. Yesterday my wife was making muffins with our daughter and when she got the bowls out, daughter says "That one is the dry bowl, and that one is the wet bowl!"
WHAT. WHERE DID THIS INFORMATION COME FROM. ARE YOU A BAKER NOW?
posted by selfnoise at 9:07 AM on October 8, 2015 [26 favorites]
WHAT. WHERE DID THIS INFORMATION COME FROM. ARE YOU A BAKER NOW?
posted by selfnoise at 9:07 AM on October 8, 2015 [26 favorites]
I like that the child mentioned the I Ching argument. My kids use that one all the time.
posted by dfm500 at 9:07 AM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by dfm500 at 9:07 AM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
I used to run a register at a CVS. (Then I took an arrow in the knee.) We had a regular customer, a woman with two little daughters, they were maybe like 4 and 6. And predictably their course back to the pharmacy counter would always take them past the toy aisle where, equally predictably, they would see something that caught their fancy, and they would indicate to their mother that they wanted it.
God knows I'm not going to criticize anyone's parenting, but I suspect what had been going on here was that the mother would initially say no, and the girls had figured out that sometimes, only sometimes, if they were really, really struck by the toy in question and very enthused about it, then their mother might relent. Well, over time this turned into a feedback loop where the mother got more resistant to enthusiasm, and the girls had to become more enthusiastic to overcome her resistance. By the time I left the job it had gotten to the point where I hated to see them come in because invariably these two little girls would make a beeline for the toy aisle and start faking orgasm.
I know no other way to describe it. It sounded exactly like someone was dubbing a porn film in aisle four with all the moaning and OOOOH, MOMMY!
I'm not sure if there's anything the woman could have done differently, to be honest, but god damn, it was creepy.
posted by Naberius at 9:08 AM on October 8, 2015 [32 favorites]
God knows I'm not going to criticize anyone's parenting, but I suspect what had been going on here was that the mother would initially say no, and the girls had figured out that sometimes, only sometimes, if they were really, really struck by the toy in question and very enthused about it, then their mother might relent. Well, over time this turned into a feedback loop where the mother got more resistant to enthusiasm, and the girls had to become more enthusiastic to overcome her resistance. By the time I left the job it had gotten to the point where I hated to see them come in because invariably these two little girls would make a beeline for the toy aisle and start faking orgasm.
I know no other way to describe it. It sounded exactly like someone was dubbing a porn film in aisle four with all the moaning and OOOOH, MOMMY!
I'm not sure if there's anything the woman could have done differently, to be honest, but god damn, it was creepy.
posted by Naberius at 9:08 AM on October 8, 2015 [32 favorites]
This kind of humor has been done a lot.
But very rarely this well.
posted by straight at 9:08 AM on October 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
But very rarely this well.
posted by straight at 9:08 AM on October 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
These are exactly like the conversations I have with my kitty when she a) wants food, b) does not want to go to the vet, c) decides the food that she has had every day for six years is unacceptable and d) decides that it is dinner, and some adult is going to give her dinner.
And they're exactly like conversations I have with my puppy when she
a) wants that thing, yes that thing!! that thing in your hand!! now you put it on the high table!! don't you realize she can't REACH the high table???? how can she get it??? you must get it!! yes!!! yes get it!!! from the high table!! NO DON'T PUT IT HIGHER LOOK BRING IT LOWER, TO HER FACE, WHERE THE BITING HAPPENS, NOT HIGHER
b) rings the bells to indicate she needs to go outside, but that means putting on the leash, but then she runs down the hallway away from the door and the leash, and then you... you want her to... to come? To come back to the door? Really? But... there's this little thing, right here, on the carpet, and she's never noticed it before. It speaks the secrets of the universe, if you smell at it enough; how entrancing. Quite fascinating, really. Hrm. Oh, still you want her to come back to the door? Really? Hrm, that doesn't seem too important all the sudden.
c) sees that we have food on our plates that is not the same as the food she has in her bowl. How could that be? What is wrong with the world? Are we POISONING her? She's pretty sure her food is poison. It smells like poison. No, it doesn't matter if we take some of her food and pretend to eat it. And no, it doesn't matter if we take some food from her bowl and put it on our plates to make it seem like it's our food: she's not that stupid, she knows it is still poison, come on, that's not how chemistry works
d) knows we moved the thing from the high table to a lower table, but she shouldn't have it, so she has to wait. yes, wait. look at her, she's not even eyeing it!!! just sitting, like good doggy, on the floor. just... just very near to it, yes. don't worry. she's just sitting nearby, that's not something to care about. and yes, why don't you leave the room? the cat is up to very important things that matter to people, yes. go check on that. she'll just be right here, which really isn't all that close to the thing after all. nope... well, even now she's a bit closer, it's not like she's going to try to get it!!! just go ahead. go leave the room, that's alright. she'll keep close tabs on that thing, no problem
posted by meese at 9:11 AM on October 8, 2015 [19 favorites]
And they're exactly like conversations I have with my puppy when she
a) wants that thing, yes that thing!! that thing in your hand!! now you put it on the high table!! don't you realize she can't REACH the high table???? how can she get it??? you must get it!! yes!!! yes get it!!! from the high table!! NO DON'T PUT IT HIGHER LOOK BRING IT LOWER, TO HER FACE, WHERE THE BITING HAPPENS, NOT HIGHER
b) rings the bells to indicate she needs to go outside, but that means putting on the leash, but then she runs down the hallway away from the door and the leash, and then you... you want her to... to come? To come back to the door? Really? But... there's this little thing, right here, on the carpet, and she's never noticed it before. It speaks the secrets of the universe, if you smell at it enough; how entrancing. Quite fascinating, really. Hrm. Oh, still you want her to come back to the door? Really? Hrm, that doesn't seem too important all the sudden.
c) sees that we have food on our plates that is not the same as the food she has in her bowl. How could that be? What is wrong with the world? Are we POISONING her? She's pretty sure her food is poison. It smells like poison. No, it doesn't matter if we take some of her food and pretend to eat it. And no, it doesn't matter if we take some food from her bowl and put it on our plates to make it seem like it's our food: she's not that stupid, she knows it is still poison, come on, that's not how chemistry works
d) knows we moved the thing from the high table to a lower table, but she shouldn't have it, so she has to wait. yes, wait. look at her, she's not even eyeing it!!! just sitting, like good doggy, on the floor. just... just very near to it, yes. don't worry. she's just sitting nearby, that's not something to care about. and yes, why don't you leave the room? the cat is up to very important things that matter to people, yes. go check on that. she'll just be right here, which really isn't all that close to the thing after all. nope... well, even now she's a bit closer, it's not like she's going to try to get it!!! just go ahead. go leave the room, that's alright. she'll keep close tabs on that thing, no problem
posted by meese at 9:11 AM on October 8, 2015 [19 favorites]
Why?
posted by dances with hamsters at 9:12 AM on October 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by dances with hamsters at 9:12 AM on October 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I normally try to avoid "Single link Slate" posts, but I liked this enough to read it aloud over breakfast this morning, and my SO liked it enough to make himself late for work while listening, so! That's one metric, anyway.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 9:12 AM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Narrative Priorities at 9:12 AM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
These are the exact discussions you have with drunk 19 year old fratboys who want mac and cheese, except they also occasionally threaten to punch you.
posted by maxsparber at 9:17 AM on October 8, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 9:17 AM on October 8, 2015 [19 favorites]
Me: I support your decision to behave more politely, and it might increase your chances of getting the next thing you want, but it won’t affect your access to this thing now.
haha, I totally do that.
Kid: I want [thing].
Me: How do you ask politely?
Kid: Please can I have [thing] please?
Me: Thank you for being polite, but no.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 9:18 AM on October 8, 2015 [31 favorites]
haha, I totally do that.
Kid: I want [thing].
Me: How do you ask politely?
Kid: Please can I have [thing] please?
Me: Thank you for being polite, but no.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 9:18 AM on October 8, 2015 [31 favorites]
These are exactly like* conversations I have with my colleagues.
*for values of 'exactly like' that equal 'what I imagine they are thinking because there is no other explanation'
posted by hydrobatidae at 9:19 AM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
*for values of 'exactly like' that equal 'what I imagine they are thinking because there is no other explanation'
posted by hydrobatidae at 9:19 AM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Thank you for being polite, but no.
Yeah, 18-month-old babyozzy is learning to use her language in new and exciting ways, and sometimes she'll point at the TV and say "Elmo," and I tell her that no, Elmo is not on right now, and why don't we play instead? She'll then say "peesssss, peesssss," and I'm like, well, I appreciate that you understand that this is a situation where "please" might be helpful, but no, we still are not watching Sesame Street right now. It kills me when she uses her words and I still have to say no.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:23 AM on October 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
Yeah, 18-month-old babyozzy is learning to use her language in new and exciting ways, and sometimes she'll point at the TV and say "Elmo," and I tell her that no, Elmo is not on right now, and why don't we play instead? She'll then say "peesssss, peesssss," and I'm like, well, I appreciate that you understand that this is a situation where "please" might be helpful, but no, we still are not watching Sesame Street right now. It kills me when she uses her words and I still have to say no.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:23 AM on October 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
Why?
Haven't really had a "why?" phase but we went through a very thorough "What's that?/What does it do?" phase. Not too bad, although gets tricky when it's like
"What's that colour?"
"Purple"
"What does it do?"
"It... it doesn't really... it's just a colour."
posted by EndsOfInvention at 9:24 AM on October 8, 2015 [21 favorites]
Haven't really had a "why?" phase but we went through a very thorough "What's that?/What does it do?" phase. Not too bad, although gets tricky when it's like
"What's that colour?"
"Purple"
"What does it do?"
"It... it doesn't really... it's just a colour."
posted by EndsOfInvention at 9:24 AM on October 8, 2015 [21 favorites]
So, looking at this article on my phone, there was a picture ad that hadn't loaded yet and the beginning of the article looked like this:
Child: Can I have this?
ADVERTISEMENT
And my first thought was, "They got it in the wrong order."
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 9:26 AM on October 8, 2015 [13 favorites]
Child: Can I have this?
ADVERTISEMENT
And my first thought was, "They got it in the wrong order."
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 9:26 AM on October 8, 2015 [13 favorites]
These are exactly like the conversations I have with my kitty when she a) wants food, b) does not want to go to the vet, c) decides the food that she has had every day for six years is unacceptable and d) decides that it is dinner, and some adult is going to give her dinner.
Substitute "basset" for kitty-cat and "loud staccato barking, one-sided, persistent and insistent" for conversation and you've got my situation in a nutshell.
posted by blucevalo at 9:27 AM on October 8, 2015
Substitute "basset" for kitty-cat and "loud staccato barking, one-sided, persistent and insistent" for conversation and you've got my situation in a nutshell.
posted by blucevalo at 9:27 AM on October 8, 2015
This was great! I am a total sucker for stories/dialogue about kids being cute/maddening. I request more such stories/dialogue from all you kid-having (and kid-knowing) MeFites!
posted by aka burlap at 9:29 AM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by aka burlap at 9:29 AM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
"Occasionally three-year-olds will say something ridiculously lucid, just to fuck with you."
They do this just to make it clear that, the rest of the time, when they are being irrational and difficult, it's because they choose to do so, not because they haven't yet developed the capacity for rational, logical thought. They don't say lucid things to fuck with you so much as they say lucid things so you know that they are fucking with you the rest of the time.
posted by VTX at 9:30 AM on October 8, 2015 [25 favorites]
They do this just to make it clear that, the rest of the time, when they are being irrational and difficult, it's because they choose to do so, not because they haven't yet developed the capacity for rational, logical thought. They don't say lucid things to fuck with you so much as they say lucid things so you know that they are fucking with you the rest of the time.
posted by VTX at 9:30 AM on October 8, 2015 [25 favorites]
Oh gods, the flashbacks from having a highly verbal, argumentative kid.
(She's 32 tomorrow - we survived!)
posted by Space Kitty at 9:49 AM on October 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
(She's 32 tomorrow - we survived!)
posted by Space Kitty at 9:49 AM on October 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
These are exactly like the conversations I have with my kitty
And they're exactly like conversations I have with my puppy
And business executives who want something that isn't in the IT budget.
posted by briank at 9:55 AM on October 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
And they're exactly like conversations I have with my puppy
And business executives who want something that isn't in the IT budget.
posted by briank at 9:55 AM on October 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
There aren't a lot of tv shows you can watch with a two year old. We decided that we'd limit kids tv to prevent our brains from melting, so we tend to watch British dramas. Call the Midwife has little serious violence in it, and it's kickass tv, so why not?
Well, when my daughter started pretending to give birth we realized the problem. Daniel Tiger has a baby sister, she wants a baby sister, and now she kind of, sort of knows where babies come from.
Cue two year old pretending to have contractions and shouting PUSH!
posted by anotherpanacea at 10:16 AM on October 8, 2015 [26 favorites]
Well, when my daughter started pretending to give birth we realized the problem. Daniel Tiger has a baby sister, she wants a baby sister, and now she kind of, sort of knows where babies come from.
Cue two year old pretending to have contractions and shouting PUSH!
posted by anotherpanacea at 10:16 AM on October 8, 2015 [26 favorites]
Conversation with my 18yo son:
Me: Can you take your feet off the coffee table please?
Son: Sure Pops.
Me (3 minutes later): Well?
Son: Well what?
Me: Well, can you take your feet off the damn table?
Son: What's wrong with the table?
Me: Nothing, it is a fine table.
Son: Then why did you call it a 'damned table'?
Me: Huh? Never mind. Can you just take your feet off it please?
Son: I said yes.
Me: So why haven't you acted upon it?
Son: You used 'can'. Of course I can. I am able bodied. You taught me to say "may" or 'would'. Just following your rules.
Me: Oh, now you're Gregg Brady playing the literal game.
Son: Who is Gregg Brady?
Me: Who is Gregg Brady? How can you not know that?
Son: What class should have taught me that? History? Science?
Me: Never mind. Try it like this: Just take your feet off the damn table, NOW!
Son: why didn't you just say so..
2 Minutes later...
Son: Hey Dad, what's for dinner?
Me: It is 1:30 in the afternoon. Dinner is not for around 5 hours. You just had lunch.
Son: I know, but I am trying to figure out if I should go get a few slices, go to the deli, or the Mickey D's after I work out.
Me: But that will be at 5:30 when you are finished working out.
Son: Right.
posted by AugustWest at 10:20 AM on October 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Me: Can you take your feet off the coffee table please?
Son: Sure Pops.
Me (3 minutes later): Well?
Son: Well what?
Me: Well, can you take your feet off the damn table?
Son: What's wrong with the table?
Me: Nothing, it is a fine table.
Son: Then why did you call it a 'damned table'?
Me: Huh? Never mind. Can you just take your feet off it please?
Son: I said yes.
Me: So why haven't you acted upon it?
Son: You used 'can'. Of course I can. I am able bodied. You taught me to say "may" or 'would'. Just following your rules.
Me: Oh, now you're Gregg Brady playing the literal game.
Son: Who is Gregg Brady?
Me: Who is Gregg Brady? How can you not know that?
Son: What class should have taught me that? History? Science?
Me: Never mind. Try it like this: Just take your feet off the damn table, NOW!
Son: why didn't you just say so..
2 Minutes later...
Son: Hey Dad, what's for dinner?
Me: It is 1:30 in the afternoon. Dinner is not for around 5 hours. You just had lunch.
Son: I know, but I am trying to figure out if I should go get a few slices, go to the deli, or the Mickey D's after I work out.
Me: But that will be at 5:30 when you are finished working out.
Son: Right.
posted by AugustWest at 10:20 AM on October 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
"Purple"
"What does it do?"
For one thing, it absorbs all wavelengths of visible light apart from red and blue.
posted by Hot Pastrami! at 10:30 AM on October 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
"What does it do?"
For one thing, it absorbs all wavelengths of visible light apart from red and blue.
posted by Hot Pastrami! at 10:30 AM on October 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
My sister once escalated to "I prayed to God just now and he said you have to get me thing".
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 10:31 AM on October 8, 2015 [28 favorites]
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 10:31 AM on October 8, 2015 [28 favorites]
Child: As Mom is my witness.
posted by numaner at 10:32 AM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by numaner at 10:32 AM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
These are exactly like the conversations I have with my kitty
And they're exactly like conversations I have with my puppy
And business executives who want something that isn't in the IT budget.
Aaaaaaand: I work in an academic unit. The roles of one dean were recently split so that Dean A took on this set of responsibilities while Dean B took on that set. And now the learned faculty members go to Dean A and do the "Can I have it" part. Dean A says no so they go to Dean B and try again. It eventually turns into a professor telling either Dean A or Dean B that the other dean said that whatever *thing* they're trying to finagle is okay. When another faculty member finds out that Dean B said such and such was okay, it starts all over again.
I'm in the middle of this, often physically. California wineries are making a lot of money off of me at the moment. I'd almost rather deal with actual toddlers.
posted by mudpuppie at 10:56 AM on October 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
And they're exactly like conversations I have with my puppy
And business executives who want something that isn't in the IT budget.
Aaaaaaand: I work in an academic unit. The roles of one dean were recently split so that Dean A took on this set of responsibilities while Dean B took on that set. And now the learned faculty members go to Dean A and do the "Can I have it" part. Dean A says no so they go to Dean B and try again. It eventually turns into a professor telling either Dean A or Dean B that the other dean said that whatever *thing* they're trying to finagle is okay. When another faculty member finds out that Dean B said such and such was okay, it starts all over again.
I'm in the middle of this, often physically. California wineries are making a lot of money off of me at the moment. I'd almost rather deal with actual toddlers.
posted by mudpuppie at 10:56 AM on October 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
This is all well and funny, but missing is the part where each argument is perpetuated on an hourly basis thrice over, for every waking hour of every waking day for years on end. EVERY HOUR. EVERY DAY. YEARS ON END. Not so funny now, is it Sam?
posted by joecacti at 11:07 AM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by joecacti at 11:07 AM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
> daughter says "That one is the dry bowl, and that one is the wet bowl!"
Some people don't like to learn this, the "muffin method." I think it's more that people don't like to mix in two bowls when everything's going to end up in one bowl. A few others are unnaturally paranoid about flour pockets/lumps, to the degree that they cannot function in the kitchen.
I think it's a great idea to teach 'em young.
posted by Sunburnt at 11:11 AM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Some people don't like to learn this, the "muffin method." I think it's more that people don't like to mix in two bowls when everything's going to end up in one bowl. A few others are unnaturally paranoid about flour pockets/lumps, to the degree that they cannot function in the kitchen.
I think it's a great idea to teach 'em young.
posted by Sunburnt at 11:11 AM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
On the subject of funny things kids say, someone here once commented that he went to check on his small child getting ready for preschool, and the kid said, "Look Dad, I'm not fucking around this morning, am I?" Something to that affect. Whenever I remember that story I get a good laugh.
posted by JenMarie at 11:20 AM on October 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by JenMarie at 11:20 AM on October 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
Mom's stock phrase was, "Well, how does it feel to want?"
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:33 AM on October 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:33 AM on October 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
Dad's stock phrase was, "I'm sorry to hear that."
Am astonished, astonished at how well it works with the difficult adults in my life. Thank you, dad.
posted by Melismata at 11:34 AM on October 8, 2015 [19 favorites]
Am astonished, astonished at how well it works with the difficult adults in my life. Thank you, dad.
posted by Melismata at 11:34 AM on October 8, 2015 [19 favorites]
I'm sure there's some sort of evolutionary reason why peak cuteness and infuriation both hit pretty close at age 3.
posted by gottabefunky at 11:41 AM on October 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 11:41 AM on October 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
Kid: Want the thing.
Me: You cannot have the thing.
Kid: Want the THING!
Me: We do not even have the thing. Even if we did, however, the answer would be the same.
Kid: WANT the THING!
Me: The thing that is not here? That does not exist in this place? Please, point it out. Perhaps I missed one.
Kid: WANT! THE! THING!
Me: ...
posted by gottabefunky at 11:49 AM on October 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
Me: You cannot have the thing.
Kid: Want the THING!
Me: We do not even have the thing. Even if we did, however, the answer would be the same.
Kid: WANT the THING!
Me: The thing that is not here? That does not exist in this place? Please, point it out. Perhaps I missed one.
Kid: WANT! THE! THING!
Me: ...
posted by gottabefunky at 11:49 AM on October 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
Child: PERHAPS IF I SAID IT LOUDER.
[many things]
Child: What if I ask more politely?
More proof that my child is brilliant and better than all other children: he has combined these two things for efficiency and grace. He will ask for things, with polite words, let's say for example: "I want applesauce please." When we decline, informing him that he cannot eat nothing but applesauce and he has already had some today, he will sometimes reply with "PLEASE!" Sometimes repeatedly.
Sometimes the most challenging thing about an almost 3-year-old is coping with challenging behavior without overt laughter.
posted by phearlez at 11:51 AM on October 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
[many things]
Child: What if I ask more politely?
More proof that my child is brilliant and better than all other children: he has combined these two things for efficiency and grace. He will ask for things, with polite words, let's say for example: "I want applesauce please." When we decline, informing him that he cannot eat nothing but applesauce and he has already had some today, he will sometimes reply with "PLEASE!" Sometimes repeatedly.
Sometimes the most challenging thing about an almost 3-year-old is coping with challenging behavior without overt laughter.
posted by phearlez at 11:51 AM on October 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
1) Redirection is a wonderful parenting technique. They should hand out pamphlets on it along with the diapers when you leave the hospital.
2) If you lose your temper (it happens to all of us), apologize, of course, but _don't give in_ just because you lost your temper.
3) Ask your Mom/What did Dad say is a huge cop-out. Again, we all do it, but you owe your spouse dinner or a back-rub or something when you pull that crap.
My elaborations and replies:
1) Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. Think of a willful child as a river, and their desire is to flood your town. Do you build a dam and block the river? No, because water will build up and eventually top (or destroy) the dam, and your town is in worse shape than if you had simply let it flood in the first place. Instead, divert that flow around your town, to some vacant lands.
2) Agreed whole-heartedly, but
3) This relates to #2 - make sure the little one isn't bypassing another parent/guardian by asking you, who might not care as much at this point. If you're going to give a child something that they can only get at certain times, make sure they have earned it, or haven't done something to prohibit them from doing that desired thing.
> Occasionally three-year-olds will say something ridiculously lucid, just to fuck with you. Yesterday my wife was making muffins with our daughter and when she got the bowls out, daughter says "That one is the dry bowl, and that one is the wet bowl!"
WHAT. WHERE DID THIS INFORMATION COME FROM. ARE YOU A BAKER NOW?
> There aren't a lot of tv shows you can watch with a two year old. We decided that we'd limit kids tv to prevent our brains from melting, so we tend to watch British dramas. Call the Midwife has little serious violence in it, and it's kickass tv, so why not?
Well, when my daughter started pretending to give birth we realized the problem.
Children are sponges of the sneakiest sort. It's cute when they repeat some phrases or snippets of song, or telling you how to do something that you're doing, but worrysome when they say "I slipped and fell," until you realize they're quoting The Highwaymen, or fake giving birth.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:53 AM on October 8, 2015
2) If you lose your temper (it happens to all of us), apologize, of course, but _don't give in_ just because you lost your temper.
3) Ask your Mom/What did Dad say is a huge cop-out. Again, we all do it, but you owe your spouse dinner or a back-rub or something when you pull that crap.
My elaborations and replies:
1) Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. Think of a willful child as a river, and their desire is to flood your town. Do you build a dam and block the river? No, because water will build up and eventually top (or destroy) the dam, and your town is in worse shape than if you had simply let it flood in the first place. Instead, divert that flow around your town, to some vacant lands.
2) Agreed whole-heartedly, but
3) This relates to #2 - make sure the little one isn't bypassing another parent/guardian by asking you, who might not care as much at this point. If you're going to give a child something that they can only get at certain times, make sure they have earned it, or haven't done something to prohibit them from doing that desired thing.
> Occasionally three-year-olds will say something ridiculously lucid, just to fuck with you. Yesterday my wife was making muffins with our daughter and when she got the bowls out, daughter says "That one is the dry bowl, and that one is the wet bowl!"
WHAT. WHERE DID THIS INFORMATION COME FROM. ARE YOU A BAKER NOW?
> There aren't a lot of tv shows you can watch with a two year old. We decided that we'd limit kids tv to prevent our brains from melting, so we tend to watch British dramas. Call the Midwife has little serious violence in it, and it's kickass tv, so why not?
Well, when my daughter started pretending to give birth we realized the problem.
Children are sponges of the sneakiest sort. It's cute when they repeat some phrases or snippets of song, or telling you how to do something that you're doing, but worrysome when they say "I slipped and fell," until you realize they're quoting The Highwaymen, or fake giving birth.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:53 AM on October 8, 2015
My three year old does all this stuff, and it's irritating in one sense, but goddamn he is so cute. I have a hard time saying no. I wish I could bottle the adorableness for later on in life, ration it out when I need it.
He does less the elaborate verbal dialogue (although he can be quite verbal when he wants to be) and more just repeating, 'I want it', 'but I WANT it', 'No, I WANT IT' in tones of increasing incredulity, as though he can't believe I don't understand the magical powers of his wanting. Then if he doesn't get it, he will reflect on it for long periods. I turned him down for a lollipop the other day on the basis of not having one in the house. He had a little short term melt down, routine. But then he came to me like 12 hours later and said out of nowhere, very seriously, 'Daddy, I think the lollipop was just hiding for a while. Can you go find it now?'.
posted by zipadee at 12:05 PM on October 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
He does less the elaborate verbal dialogue (although he can be quite verbal when he wants to be) and more just repeating, 'I want it', 'but I WANT it', 'No, I WANT IT' in tones of increasing incredulity, as though he can't believe I don't understand the magical powers of his wanting. Then if he doesn't get it, he will reflect on it for long periods. I turned him down for a lollipop the other day on the basis of not having one in the house. He had a little short term melt down, routine. But then he came to me like 12 hours later and said out of nowhere, very seriously, 'Daddy, I think the lollipop was just hiding for a while. Can you go find it now?'.
posted by zipadee at 12:05 PM on October 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
madajb: 1) Redirection is a wonderful parenting technique. They should hand out pamphlets on it along with the diapers when you leave the hospital.
My wife is still amazed how I rarely answer the question I was asked by a child, but instead answer the question I wish I had been asked. It works with a really amazingly high degree of reliability to keep the conversation within rational bounds.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:05 PM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
My wife is still amazed how I rarely answer the question I was asked by a child, but instead answer the question I wish I had been asked. It works with a really amazingly high degree of reliability to keep the conversation within rational bounds.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:05 PM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
The Underpants Monster: Mom's stock phrase was, "Well, how does it feel to want?"
My brother smoothly piggy-packs onto his kids' demands with, "...And Dad wants a new car," as he nods seriously. I tell mine I want a pony. (Who doesn't want a pony?)
posted by wenestvedt at 12:10 PM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
My brother smoothly piggy-packs onto his kids' demands with, "...And Dad wants a new car," as he nods seriously. I tell mine I want a pony. (Who doesn't want a pony?)
posted by wenestvedt at 12:10 PM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
One of my little relatives is very scientific about trying out different strategies to motivate adults, and right now one of the strong ones is: whining in the most hilariously over the top cartoon stereotype Whining Kid way.
The other week he was doing it during the eclipse. "But I WANT to see it!", frowning, stomping, stooping his shoulders, fake tears, "now I'll NEVER get to see it, FINE then go AWAY stupid eclipse" etc. Because the clouds were obscuring the moon and he wanted them to move. So he was directing this performance at the adults, as if we could be like "well okay, since you want it so bad" and then gesture the skies clear.
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:15 PM on October 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
The other week he was doing it during the eclipse. "But I WANT to see it!", frowning, stomping, stooping his shoulders, fake tears, "now I'll NEVER get to see it, FINE then go AWAY stupid eclipse" etc. Because the clouds were obscuring the moon and he wanted them to move. So he was directing this performance at the adults, as if we could be like "well okay, since you want it so bad" and then gesture the skies clear.
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:15 PM on October 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
I am unfamiliar with this concept of parents apologizing to their children. This has never once happened in my lifetime. Do parents do this? Am I awake?
Before I had children, I felt the same about parents who ask their small children to "please" do or say things, rather than (as a parent) simply telling them to do the thing. "Who is in charge here", sort of thing.
Now that I have kids, I understand how much children mimic their parents in how they behave, what they say, and so on - I say "please" to my children, and thank them, and apologize to them when necessary, so that they might do the same. I have no idea if this will work, so I'll report back in 10 or 15 years.
Our son's preschool teacher tells a great story about children mimicking their parents - at our preschool there is a small sink for children to empty and clean their own cups, and there was one little boy in her class who, whenever he saw a little girl using the sink, would walk up and give her a pat on the butt....
posted by MOWOG at 12:17 PM on October 8, 2015 [17 favorites]
Before I had children, I felt the same about parents who ask their small children to "please" do or say things, rather than (as a parent) simply telling them to do the thing. "Who is in charge here", sort of thing.
Now that I have kids, I understand how much children mimic their parents in how they behave, what they say, and so on - I say "please" to my children, and thank them, and apologize to them when necessary, so that they might do the same. I have no idea if this will work, so I'll report back in 10 or 15 years.
Our son's preschool teacher tells a great story about children mimicking their parents - at our preschool there is a small sink for children to empty and clean their own cups, and there was one little boy in her class who, whenever he saw a little girl using the sink, would walk up and give her a pat on the butt....
posted by MOWOG at 12:17 PM on October 8, 2015 [17 favorites]
For one thing, it absorbs all wavelengths of visible light apart from red and blue.
Yes, good try! Unfortunately anything that exceeded his comprehension was met with "but what does it DO?"
posted by EndsOfInvention at 12:19 PM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yes, good try! Unfortunately anything that exceeded his comprehension was met with "but what does it DO?"
posted by EndsOfInvention at 12:19 PM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh, hi there, PTSD.
posted by Mogur at 12:26 PM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Mogur at 12:26 PM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
This article reminds me of hands down the best exchange on television between adults and a kid. It happened in the show "Malcom in the Middle" and basically, the show gave you complete insight into Dewey's mind. I share below the beauty of his scenes. Please note, he routinely reimagines what people are saying to him. I've tried to separate out stage directions and Dewey's dream world for full effect.
-----
Cut to the living room where Dewey is watching the news.
Reporter: ...on the state-legislature-sponsored initiative limiting the cabinet's attitude of overanalyzing past and current positions......this type of governmental interference. In international news-
Dewey imagines the reporter is saying:
Reporter: Boring boring boring. I’m incredibly boring. Do you know who‘s boring? Me. boring loring zoring soring boring…why haven’t you changed the channel yet?
Dewey switches to cartoons
---------
Cut to Dewey watching TV.
Advertisement: Hey kids! It's a new improved Herby! Now with super sleepy fuzzy fur!
Herby: I’m sleepy.
Advertisement: Herby is not available in stores. Order yours now through the special -
Dewey imagines the Herby talking to him:
Herby: Hi Dewey! I can make you happy. I can make your brothers be nice to you! I can get you out of school. Your parents want to buy me for you. All you’ve gotta do is ask them. They’re right there in the kitchen! Go on… yeah, go ask them.
Dewey: Mom, can you buy me a Herby?
Lois: No. They’re too expensive.
Dewey’s imagination Maybe. Ask me again in 4 seconds.
Dewey: Can you buy me a Herby please?
Lois: Didn’t you just hear me?
Dewey’s imagination Ask louder!
---------
Cut to Dewey, watching cartoons. He reaches under the cushion on the couch, pulls out a
small toy which, imagining it is candy, he tries to eat. The Herby advertisement comes on.
Herby:
Dewey’s imagination Dewey, have you forgotten me? I thought we were friends. All of the boys and girls on your street are my friends. They all bought me. Your parents have lots of money. They're just hiding it. But I don't want you to buy me for me. It's for your own good. I didn't want to tell you this, but if you don't buy me, you'll die.
Dewey:
imagination Mom? Dad? I'd really like a Herbie doll. I know it's expensive, but I don't ask for a lot. And I've been very good lately.
Lies on floor screaming I want it!
Dewey: I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it!
Lois: Looks like he found the sugar.
Hal: Oh, doesn't he look just like a little dust mop?
----------
Hal: Reese? Come on out. We need to have a talk.
Malcolm: Finally.
Hal: Malcolm, you're in on this talk too.
Malcolm: Me?! Why do I have to be here?
Hal: Relax. It's going to be far worse for me than it is for you. once he and boys are seated on the floor in the boys’ room Boys, this talk is very important, so I need your undivided attention.
Dewey’s imagination It's very important that you be bored and squirm a lot.
Hal: Now, I want to tell you about what happens when a boy really, really likes a girl. And Dewey, I'll try to make this easy for you to understand. Picks up two action figures
Malcolm TC: Ah. Aw, man, I still play with that.
---------
Dewey is watching TV, when Hal and Lois sit down next to him.
Hal: Dewey, your mother and I want to talk to you. You're a good boy. But in life being good doesn't always get you the things that you want. What I'm trying to say is that when your mother and I don't buy you a toy, it doesn't mean that we don't love you. Hmm? You have to learn that disappointment is all part of being a grown-up. But, luckily... you're not a grown-up yet! Ta-da! Brings out Herby
Dewey: Wow! Cuddles Herby
Lois: laughing Oh, come on, how cute is that?
Herby:
Dewey’s imagination Break me.
Dewey: Okay. Goes off with Herby
posted by Nanukthedog at 12:27 PM on October 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
-----
Cut to the living room where Dewey is watching the news.
Reporter: ...on the state-legislature-sponsored initiative limiting the cabinet's attitude of overanalyzing past and current positions......this type of governmental interference. In international news-
Dewey imagines the reporter is saying:
Reporter: Boring boring boring. I’m incredibly boring. Do you know who‘s boring? Me. boring loring zoring soring boring…why haven’t you changed the channel yet?
Dewey switches to cartoons
---------
Cut to Dewey watching TV.
Advertisement: Hey kids! It's a new improved Herby! Now with super sleepy fuzzy fur!
Herby: I’m sleepy.
Advertisement: Herby is not available in stores. Order yours now through the special -
Dewey imagines the Herby talking to him:
Herby: Hi Dewey! I can make you happy. I can make your brothers be nice to you! I can get you out of school. Your parents want to buy me for you. All you’ve gotta do is ask them. They’re right there in the kitchen! Go on… yeah, go ask them.
Dewey: Mom, can you buy me a Herby?
Lois: No. They’re too expensive.
Dewey’s imagination Maybe. Ask me again in 4 seconds.
Dewey: Can you buy me a Herby please?
Lois: Didn’t you just hear me?
Dewey’s imagination Ask louder!
---------
Cut to Dewey, watching cartoons. He reaches under the cushion on the couch, pulls out a
small toy which, imagining it is candy, he tries to eat. The Herby advertisement comes on.
Herby:
Dewey’s imagination Dewey, have you forgotten me? I thought we were friends. All of the boys and girls on your street are my friends. They all bought me. Your parents have lots of money. They're just hiding it. But I don't want you to buy me for me. It's for your own good. I didn't want to tell you this, but if you don't buy me, you'll die.
Dewey:
imagination Mom? Dad? I'd really like a Herbie doll. I know it's expensive, but I don't ask for a lot. And I've been very good lately.
Lies on floor screaming I want it!
Dewey: I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it!
Lois: Looks like he found the sugar.
Hal: Oh, doesn't he look just like a little dust mop?
----------
Hal: Reese? Come on out. We need to have a talk.
Malcolm: Finally.
Hal: Malcolm, you're in on this talk too.
Malcolm: Me?! Why do I have to be here?
Hal: Relax. It's going to be far worse for me than it is for you. once he and boys are seated on the floor in the boys’ room Boys, this talk is very important, so I need your undivided attention.
Dewey’s imagination It's very important that you be bored and squirm a lot.
Hal: Now, I want to tell you about what happens when a boy really, really likes a girl. And Dewey, I'll try to make this easy for you to understand. Picks up two action figures
Malcolm TC: Ah. Aw, man, I still play with that.
---------
Dewey is watching TV, when Hal and Lois sit down next to him.
Hal: Dewey, your mother and I want to talk to you. You're a good boy. But in life being good doesn't always get you the things that you want. What I'm trying to say is that when your mother and I don't buy you a toy, it doesn't mean that we don't love you. Hmm? You have to learn that disappointment is all part of being a grown-up. But, luckily... you're not a grown-up yet! Ta-da! Brings out Herby
Dewey: Wow! Cuddles Herby
Lois: laughing Oh, come on, how cute is that?
Herby:
Dewey’s imagination Break me.
Dewey: Okay. Goes off with Herby
posted by Nanukthedog at 12:27 PM on October 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
wenestvedt: "My wife is still amazed how I rarely answer the question I was asked by a child, but instead answer the question I wish I had been asked. It works with a really amazingly high degree of reliability to keep the conversation within rational bounds."
I am intrigue and wish to imitate. Do you have an example?
posted by Liesl at 12:36 PM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I am intrigue and wish to imitate. Do you have an example?
posted by Liesl at 12:36 PM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yes, good try! Unfortunately anything that exceeded his comprehension was met with "but what does it DO?"
Yeah, my 3 year old is also entering the stage of the repeated question -- his favorite is 'but WHY does it do that?'. That can get you into the realm of fundamental metaphysical questions remarkably quickly. Also a favorite is 'but what is X?'. 'the engine turns the wheels to make the car move', 'but what is moving, daddy'? Good question son...are we in a Newtonian or a relativistic framework now?
posted by zipadee at 12:38 PM on October 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Yeah, my 3 year old is also entering the stage of the repeated question -- his favorite is 'but WHY does it do that?'. That can get you into the realm of fundamental metaphysical questions remarkably quickly. Also a favorite is 'but what is X?'. 'the engine turns the wheels to make the car move', 'but what is moving, daddy'? Good question son...are we in a Newtonian or a relativistic framework now?
posted by zipadee at 12:38 PM on October 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
I think parents should freely laugh when children are hilarious and clever. It's not wrong to shape up funniness in a small person, and anyway, there's nothing better than somebody appreciating it when you've been funny. The laugh rewards the cleverness without giving the child the impression that whining will result in toys, candy, or youtubery. The whining stage is inevitable, since the infant's every little peep gets immediate response but the toddler must learn the terrible lesson that the era of instant gratification is ending. Why not, since the whining is going to happen anyway, improve the quality of the content and delivery of the whine? If the kid is genuinely funny, please, for the sake of future generations, please don't stifle your natural response. Appreciative parents make Louis C.K.s and Maria Bamfords!
posted by Don Pepino at 12:59 PM on October 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 12:59 PM on October 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
>Mom's stock phrase was, "Well, how does it feel to want?"
>>Dad's stock phrase was, "I'm sorry to hear that."
>>>My brother smoothly piggy-packs onto his kids' demands with, "...And Dad wants a new car," as he nods seriously. I tell mine I want a pony. (Who doesn't want a pony?)
Yep, those were part of my parents' repertory, too! And they worked amazingly well; I remember being very young - certainly preschool age - and being consciously aware that literally everybody has desires that they can't afford to indulge in. I don't know, maybe it was mean of my parents to shatter my illusions like that? But it was probably a lot less stressful on all of us.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:08 PM on October 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
I think parents should freely laugh when children are hilarious and clever.
I agree in theory, though this is how we've had three solid months of my three-year-old gleefully screaming "Fucker!" every time he hears a car horn honk (which is surprising often). It's my fault, got some mild road rage at a car in front of me that didn't move when the light turned green. My son has been imitating me ever since and we just cannot keep from laughing, which further incentivizes him.
posted by JenMarie at 1:21 PM on October 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
I agree in theory, though this is how we've had three solid months of my three-year-old gleefully screaming "Fucker!" every time he hears a car horn honk (which is surprising often). It's my fault, got some mild road rage at a car in front of me that didn't move when the light turned green. My son has been imitating me ever since and we just cannot keep from laughing, which further incentivizes him.
posted by JenMarie at 1:21 PM on October 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
Children are sponges of the sneakiest sort. It's cute when they repeat some phrases or snippets of song,
A friend of mine decided a frank appraisal of her parenting skills was in order when her eldest (now a well-adjusted eleven) spent many weeks as a two-year-old singing at full volume, "THEY TRIED TO MAKE ME GO TO REHAB BUT I SAID NO, NO, NO!"
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:55 PM on October 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
A friend of mine decided a frank appraisal of her parenting skills was in order when her eldest (now a well-adjusted eleven) spent many weeks as a two-year-old singing at full volume, "THEY TRIED TO MAKE ME GO TO REHAB BUT I SAID NO, NO, NO!"
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:55 PM on October 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
Oh gods. I just had a flashback to childhood: I would have been 9 or 10, and was singing Leonard Cohen's Everybody Knows. A lot. And my parents kept interrogating me on what the song meant to me.
posted by frimble at 2:04 PM on October 8, 2015
posted by frimble at 2:04 PM on October 8, 2015
The first time my 2.5 y/o mimicked me in the car saying "COME ON!" to another driver I was 80% amused and 20% embarrassed. The first time I heard him say it while playing with his toy cars I inverted that ratio. And I also decided that maybe my wife was right when she'd asked me earlier this year to stop including Spinal Tap's "Big Bottom" and the JoCo cover of "Baby Got Back" in the pre-bedtime songs I sang to him.
A brilliant now-departed man who I knew online (RIP, JRT) once said "Children are to a calm and orderly life what the Goths were to Roman social order." He was eminently quotable but nothing he said has stuck with me as well as that.
posted by phearlez at 2:13 PM on October 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
A brilliant now-departed man who I knew online (RIP, JRT) once said "Children are to a calm and orderly life what the Goths were to Roman social order." He was eminently quotable but nothing he said has stuck with me as well as that.
posted by phearlez at 2:13 PM on October 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
The secret is to know what you're going to give in on, and give in on it THE FIRST TIME ASKED, and the rest, NEVER give in on. This "no, no, yes" business is just toxic.
posted by MattD at 2:44 PM on October 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by MattD at 2:44 PM on October 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
About once a year, maybe twice, without telling our kids, my (ex) wife and I would make it a "yes" day. If they asked nicely, we would say yes. May I please have a milkshake for breakfast? Yes, but this is an exception today. Can I watch TV? May I, but yes you may. We would say yes to pretty much any reasonable request. They didn't catch on until they were about 9 or 10. Then, we they realized it was a yes day, they would ask for all sorts of things like toys and electronics. We had to stop at that point.
posted by AugustWest at 3:22 PM on October 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by AugustWest at 3:22 PM on October 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
The secret is to know what you're going to give in on, and give in on it THE FIRST TIME ASKED, and the rest, NEVER give in on. This "no, no, yes" business is just toxic.
I get where you're coming from, because it's true that they don't give up easily once they sense that wheedling/whining will eventually get their way, and who wants to encourage that?
But I actually have a slightly different policy: if they give me an actual, good reason to change my mind, and/or I can't give them an actual, good reason for my original position, then I will change my mind.
Giving in because they came up with a good argument or demolished mine is completely different, to me, than giving in because they just wore me down with their whining. I actually do want to encourage that kind of reasoning and want to be seen to be susceptible to appeals to fairness, etc.
My kids are two and four and already they are pretty good junior lawyers. :-)
(They are at a disadvantage in that attorney for the defense is also the judge, but I make at least an attempt to be a fair judge, nevertheless...)
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:50 PM on October 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
I get where you're coming from, because it's true that they don't give up easily once they sense that wheedling/whining will eventually get their way, and who wants to encourage that?
But I actually have a slightly different policy: if they give me an actual, good reason to change my mind, and/or I can't give them an actual, good reason for my original position, then I will change my mind.
Giving in because they came up with a good argument or demolished mine is completely different, to me, than giving in because they just wore me down with their whining. I actually do want to encourage that kind of reasoning and want to be seen to be susceptible to appeals to fairness, etc.
My kids are two and four and already they are pretty good junior lawyers. :-)
(They are at a disadvantage in that attorney for the defense is also the judge, but I make at least an attempt to be a fair judge, nevertheless...)
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:50 PM on October 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
And now the learned faculty members go to Dean A and do the "Can I have it" part. Dean A says no so they go to Dean B and try again.
Interim deans are the best. It's just like telling the babysitter "Mommy and Daddy always let us ..."
posted by octobersurprise at 4:57 PM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Interim deans are the best. It's just like telling the babysitter "Mommy and Daddy always let us ..."
posted by octobersurprise at 4:57 PM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm so good at no that I am sometimes embarrassed that my now 22 and 17-yo kids will not accept offers of new clothes or delicious treats, because they find it unnatural. Anecdotes aside, it really just is a routine, and one I recommend: it's tough for something like 4 weeks, and then you get a lifetime of freedom. My kids are spoilt beyond my means, but they have learnt very early on that I have zero tolerance for begging and whining. Because I deserve a life too.
That said, I have the best and wisest sister-in-law on the globe, and she taught me a brilliant response: whenever a child was begging or whining or arguing, she'd say: speak with your normal voice.
Don't even address the content, focus on the form. It works like a miracle.
posted by mumimor at 5:14 PM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
That said, I have the best and wisest sister-in-law on the globe, and she taught me a brilliant response: whenever a child was begging or whining or arguing, she'd say: speak with your normal voice.
Don't even address the content, focus on the form. It works like a miracle.
posted by mumimor at 5:14 PM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
madajb: "Ask your Mom/What did Dad say is a huge cop-out. Again, we all do it, but you owe your spouse dinner or a back-rub or something when you pull that crap."
That's what I thought as a child. As a father, I realize it's the exact opposite. "Ask your Mom" is short for "I'm totally okay with you doing that, but I'm less picky about this subject than your mother is. Let's go with what she wants, instead of going with what I want and her being pissed off half the time."
OnceUponATime: "it's true that they don't give up easily once they sense that wheedling/whining will eventually get their way, and who wants to encourage that?"
This is one of those "a square is always a rectangle but a rectangle isn't always a square" things that a lot of people without kids don't quite get. If you do "No, no, no, yes" you are training your kid to pester you. But that doesn't mean that if you say "No, no, no, no" your kid won't pester you. We raised Bugbread Jr. (age 10) with a great deal of consistency, and yet last week he spent two solid days repeatedly asking for a Playstation Vita for Christmas.
posted by Bugbread at 5:47 PM on October 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
That's what I thought as a child. As a father, I realize it's the exact opposite. "Ask your Mom" is short for "I'm totally okay with you doing that, but I'm less picky about this subject than your mother is. Let's go with what she wants, instead of going with what I want and her being pissed off half the time."
OnceUponATime: "it's true that they don't give up easily once they sense that wheedling/whining will eventually get their way, and who wants to encourage that?"
This is one of those "a square is always a rectangle but a rectangle isn't always a square" things that a lot of people without kids don't quite get. If you do "No, no, no, yes" you are training your kid to pester you. But that doesn't mean that if you say "No, no, no, no" your kid won't pester you. We raised Bugbread Jr. (age 10) with a great deal of consistency, and yet last week he spent two solid days repeatedly asking for a Playstation Vita for Christmas.
posted by Bugbread at 5:47 PM on October 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
aka burlap: ". I request more such stories/dialogue from all you kid-having (and kid-knowing) MeFites!"
From today:
4-year-old: "Mom! I want was [brother] has! Mom! MOM! MOM!! I WANT WHAT BROTHER HAS! I WANT WHAT BROTHER HAS! MOM! I WANT --"
Me: "That's fine! Have one! here!"
4-year-old: "Oh ... I don't like cheese."
anotherpanacea: "Call the Midwife has little serious violence in it, and it's kickass tv, so why not? Well, when my daughter started pretending to give birth we realized the problem."
HAHAHAHA, I was watching this in a very intense episode and didn't realize my then-5-year-old was watching over my shoulder until the baby came out and he said, "WOW." I was like "Uh ... do you have any ... questions?"
Capt. Renault: "I am unfamiliar with this concept of parents apologizing to their children. This has never once happened in my lifetime. Do parents do this? Am I awake?"
I apologize to my children all the time when I've lost my temper or made a mistake. Them being tiny doesn't mean they don't deserve the same courtesy as anybody else. Most typically they're being incredibly annoying and I am overtired and I snap and bite their heads off instead of giving a firm reprimand, and their feelings get hurt, and I say, "I'm sorry I snapped at you. I'm overtired and it's making me short-tempered, but that's not an excuse for being mean, and I'm sorry."
I'm not like a sweetness-and-light sort of parent; when they say, "But I WANT it!" I frequently just respond, "I know that, but I don't care." I also don't apologize for good parenting; I'll sometimes say "I know you don't like it, but this is the rule" or "but this is my responsibility as your mother" or whatever if they're really upset about being parented. But when I'm a bad parent or a mean person, which happens as I am a normal adult spending many hours a day with small crazy people and I lose my temper sometimes, I apologize for it.
I think it's a good example; my kids are pretty prompt about apologizing when they hit or grab, and they understand the idea of calming down and making amends, better than many same-age peers. But more importantly, I think it's a basic ethical mandate that I, as a full-grown person who knows better, should apologize when I hurt the feelings of tiny people in my care who have no choice in the matter. I literally am the bigger person; I should try to act like it.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:52 PM on October 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
From today:
4-year-old: "Mom! I want was [brother] has! Mom! MOM! MOM!! I WANT WHAT BROTHER HAS! I WANT WHAT BROTHER HAS! MOM! I WANT --"
Me: "That's fine! Have one! here!"
4-year-old: "Oh ... I don't like cheese."
anotherpanacea: "Call the Midwife has little serious violence in it, and it's kickass tv, so why not? Well, when my daughter started pretending to give birth we realized the problem."
HAHAHAHA, I was watching this in a very intense episode and didn't realize my then-5-year-old was watching over my shoulder until the baby came out and he said, "WOW." I was like "Uh ... do you have any ... questions?"
Capt. Renault: "I am unfamiliar with this concept of parents apologizing to their children. This has never once happened in my lifetime. Do parents do this? Am I awake?"
I apologize to my children all the time when I've lost my temper or made a mistake. Them being tiny doesn't mean they don't deserve the same courtesy as anybody else. Most typically they're being incredibly annoying and I am overtired and I snap and bite their heads off instead of giving a firm reprimand, and their feelings get hurt, and I say, "I'm sorry I snapped at you. I'm overtired and it's making me short-tempered, but that's not an excuse for being mean, and I'm sorry."
I'm not like a sweetness-and-light sort of parent; when they say, "But I WANT it!" I frequently just respond, "I know that, but I don't care." I also don't apologize for good parenting; I'll sometimes say "I know you don't like it, but this is the rule" or "but this is my responsibility as your mother" or whatever if they're really upset about being parented. But when I'm a bad parent or a mean person, which happens as I am a normal adult spending many hours a day with small crazy people and I lose my temper sometimes, I apologize for it.
I think it's a good example; my kids are pretty prompt about apologizing when they hit or grab, and they understand the idea of calming down and making amends, better than many same-age peers. But more importantly, I think it's a basic ethical mandate that I, as a full-grown person who knows better, should apologize when I hurt the feelings of tiny people in my care who have no choice in the matter. I literally am the bigger person; I should try to act like it.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:52 PM on October 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
Apparently toddler-me once squinted at a grocery store cashier and in my best Cagney said, "you dirty RAT." No idea where that came from.
posted by bendy at 6:39 PM on October 8, 2015
posted by bendy at 6:39 PM on October 8, 2015
"Can I have some?"
"Okay."
"What is it?"
posted by SLC Mom at 7:05 PM on October 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
"Okay."
"What is it?"
posted by SLC Mom at 7:05 PM on October 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
bendy: "Apparently toddler-me once squinted at a grocery store cashier and in my best Cagney said, "you dirty RAT." No idea where that came from."
I would bet a week's salary that the answer is "Looney Tunes".
posted by Bugbread at 7:31 PM on October 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I would bet a week's salary that the answer is "Looney Tunes".
posted by Bugbread at 7:31 PM on October 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
In the supermarket, from the next aisle over we heard a tot exclaim:
"Mummy, when I am talking to you I need you to pay attention to what I'm saying!" (it was probably along the lines of "I need you to buy chips".
Cue everyone in my aisle nearly choking with supressed laughter.
As a babysitter I learned that you NEVER say anything like "lets not tell mummy that we spilled cereal all over the floor" because it's guaranteed the kid will say "kitten says we shouldn't tell mummy that we spilled cereal all over the floor" and the parent will (a) end up knowing anyway and (b) know that you were trying to get their kid to keep secrets and what else are you hiding?.
React with no reaction. It's the safest.
posted by kitten magic at 7:40 PM on October 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
"Mummy, when I am talking to you I need you to pay attention to what I'm saying!" (it was probably along the lines of "I need you to buy chips".
Cue everyone in my aisle nearly choking with supressed laughter.
As a babysitter I learned that you NEVER say anything like "lets not tell mummy that we spilled cereal all over the floor" because it's guaranteed the kid will say "kitten says we shouldn't tell mummy that we spilled cereal all over the floor" and the parent will (a) end up knowing anyway and (b) know that you were trying to get their kid to keep secrets and what else are you hiding?.
React with no reaction. It's the safest.
posted by kitten magic at 7:40 PM on October 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm also one of those parents that responds to "I WANT..." with "and Mommy wants a Ferrari." One year, when man cub was about 5, someone gave him a giant box of cars. Amongst them was a single, shiny, red sports car. He wrapped it in a bit of tissue, and put a bow on it, and put it in my xmas stocking and told me Santa brought me a Ferrari. The little car, all these years later, still has a place of honor in my den.
To quote the eternal prophet Wanda Sykes, kids; they a lot of work, but they worth it.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:50 PM on October 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
To quote the eternal prophet Wanda Sykes, kids; they a lot of work, but they worth it.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:50 PM on October 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
So it's late and I'm feeling maudlin, and maybe it's time for The Story.
When he was five years old, my father worshipped John Deere tractors and his own father, possibly in that order. He used to sit for hours and watch his father plow, his little face rapt with wonder, racing in the machine's wake to pull rocks from the soil.
One autumn day, as he went about his chores in the barn, he noticed that the tack room door was open. He went to close it; although he knew he wasn't allowed in the tack crown he couldn't resist taking a peek. High on the top shelf he saw the most magical thing in the world: a toy John Deere tractor.
He just knew that that had to be his Christmas present. He shut the door and finished his chores, but later on let it slip to one of his brothers that he thought he'd seen his Christmas present that day. His brother went to his mother, his mother went to his father, and on Christmas morning after everyone else opened their packages, there is no toy tractor - or anything else - for my father. Instead, Grandpa got the belt and gave him two beatings: one for being sneaky, and one for being greedy.
We heard this story from his adult sister, who still thought it was the funniest thing she had ever witnessed. Of course, she still had the scar that looks like a vampire bite from when her mother went after her with the pot fork, so consider the source.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:12 PM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
When he was five years old, my father worshipped John Deere tractors and his own father, possibly in that order. He used to sit for hours and watch his father plow, his little face rapt with wonder, racing in the machine's wake to pull rocks from the soil.
One autumn day, as he went about his chores in the barn, he noticed that the tack room door was open. He went to close it; although he knew he wasn't allowed in the tack crown he couldn't resist taking a peek. High on the top shelf he saw the most magical thing in the world: a toy John Deere tractor.
He just knew that that had to be his Christmas present. He shut the door and finished his chores, but later on let it slip to one of his brothers that he thought he'd seen his Christmas present that day. His brother went to his mother, his mother went to his father, and on Christmas morning after everyone else opened their packages, there is no toy tractor - or anything else - for my father. Instead, Grandpa got the belt and gave him two beatings: one for being sneaky, and one for being greedy.
We heard this story from his adult sister, who still thought it was the funniest thing she had ever witnessed. Of course, she still had the scar that looks like a vampire bite from when her mother went after her with the pot fork, so consider the source.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:12 PM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
4-year-old: "Oh ... I don't like cheese."
Kid: I want to watch rabbits*! (Peter Rabbit)
Me: OK *turns on Peter Rabbit*
Kid: *crying* I don't want to watch rabbits!!
Me: You just said... *sigh* *turns off TV*
Kid: *crying harder* I want to watch rabbits!!!
Man, am I glad that phase was over quickly.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:30 AM on October 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
Kid: I want to watch rabbits*! (Peter Rabbit)
Me: OK *turns on Peter Rabbit*
Kid: *crying* I don't want to watch rabbits!!
Me: You just said... *sigh* *turns off TV*
Kid: *crying harder* I want to watch rabbits!!!
Man, am I glad that phase was over quickly.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:30 AM on October 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
Me: Do you need a wee?
Kid: No.
*I take him to the toilet anyway, he does a huge wee*
Me: You did need a wee! Were you telling porky pies?
Kid: What's porcupines?
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:31 AM on October 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Kid: No.
*I take him to the toilet anyway, he does a huge wee*
Me: You did need a wee! Were you telling porky pies?
Kid: What's porcupines?
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:31 AM on October 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
The secret is to know what you're going to give in on, and give in on it THE FIRST TIME ASKED, and the rest, NEVER give in on. This "no, no, yes" business is just toxic.
I guess that's true, it's logical enough, but I just can't resist after a while so I am definitely a 'no no yes' person. It's OK because I find it kind of cute when he whines.
But the flip side of this is that when I get to the real no he understands almost instantly and quiets down.
posted by zipadee at 9:19 AM on October 9, 2015
I guess that's true, it's logical enough, but I just can't resist after a while so I am definitely a 'no no yes' person. It's OK because I find it kind of cute when he whines.
But the flip side of this is that when I get to the real no he understands almost instantly and quiets down.
posted by zipadee at 9:19 AM on October 9, 2015
shrug. The trick to all of these types of conversations is to just walk away after the second line.
Can I have it?
No.
But I want it.....
(silence)
But...
Ask again and you're in time out.
(kid goes and does whatever kids do)
I "get" the humor, but man, you gotta slap some rules down fast and stick with them if you don't want shit to go downhill fast.
posted by Mr. Big Business at 9:44 AM on October 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Can I have it?
No.
But I want it.....
(silence)
But...
Ask again and you're in time out.
(kid goes and does whatever kids do)
I "get" the humor, but man, you gotta slap some rules down fast and stick with them if you don't want shit to go downhill fast.
posted by Mr. Big Business at 9:44 AM on October 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
These are great. It's also amazing how many of those patterns are still seen in adult arguments, albeit with slightly more complicated words and topics:
"They don't agree so they must not understand! Perhaps if I explain in more and more detail..."
"They're not listening! Maybe if I say it again? No? What if I make it all-caps?"
"I don't want to acknowledge that point so here's a complete derail"
"Wait, you still want me to answer? ok, but first give me a complete list of sources for all those commonly accepted facts"
I guess some people are still very, uh, in touch with their inner child.
posted by randomnity at 11:42 AM on October 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
"They don't agree so they must not understand! Perhaps if I explain in more and more detail..."
"They're not listening! Maybe if I say it again? No? What if I make it all-caps?"
"I don't want to acknowledge that point so here's a complete derail"
"Wait, you still want me to answer? ok, but first give me a complete list of sources for all those commonly accepted facts"
I guess some people are still very, uh, in touch with their inner child.
posted by randomnity at 11:42 AM on October 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
[18 yo] Son: Hey Dad, what's for dinner?
Me: It is 1:30 in the afternoon. Dinner is not for around 5 hours. You just had lunch.
In fairness, I am 44 years old and I usually start thinking about dinner approximately two minutes after I've finished lunch.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 1:13 PM on October 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Me: It is 1:30 in the afternoon. Dinner is not for around 5 hours. You just had lunch.
In fairness, I am 44 years old and I usually start thinking about dinner approximately two minutes after I've finished lunch.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 1:13 PM on October 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
I say "asked and answered" to my three-year-old approximately 72000 times a day, but I heard him telling his Paw Patrol pups "you get what you get and you don't throw a fit" this morning; some of it's getting through.
Then again, I also got a report last week from the tiny sponge's preschool teacher that he brought her a toy and said "this goddamned thing broke AGAIN." So.
posted by ThatSomething at 1:31 PM on October 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Then again, I also got a report last week from the tiny sponge's preschool teacher that he brought her a toy and said "this goddamned thing broke AGAIN." So.
posted by ThatSomething at 1:31 PM on October 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
My wife just put her contacts in, which she almost never does and had this conversation with our three year old:
"Wow, mom, you're so beautiful!"
"Thank you!"
"Your eyelashes are so pretty. And your makeup."
"Thanks. I did put on makeup."
"Well... maybe too much makeup."
Earlier this week I was driving her to dance class and we had this discussion:
"Dad, what's that?"
"It looks like they're building a hotel there."
"What's a hotel?"
"Well, when you go on a trip somewhere and you don't have someone to stay with, you can stay in a hotel. Remember when your mom went to Whitehorse for work? She stayed in a hotel."
"Oh. With that dude?"
"What? No... What dude? There was a dude?"
"The dude in the hotel."
"No... I don't think so."
"Yeah, the dude with the sunglasses!"
posted by ODiV at 5:39 PM on October 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
"Wow, mom, you're so beautiful!"
"Thank you!"
"Your eyelashes are so pretty. And your makeup."
"Thanks. I did put on makeup."
"Well... maybe too much makeup."
Earlier this week I was driving her to dance class and we had this discussion:
"Dad, what's that?"
"It looks like they're building a hotel there."
"What's a hotel?"
"Well, when you go on a trip somewhere and you don't have someone to stay with, you can stay in a hotel. Remember when your mom went to Whitehorse for work? She stayed in a hotel."
"Oh. With that dude?"
"What? No... What dude? There was a dude?"
"The dude in the hotel."
"No... I don't think so."
"Yeah, the dude with the sunglasses!"
posted by ODiV at 5:39 PM on October 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
When you are bigger and in charge of everything, there is also the trick where you can just stop talking. It takes nerves of steel at first and you sort of feel like a bad parent for not engaging your child, but it works well for those times that go nowhere and your eyes are starting to glaze over from the obstinancy. My wife's magic phrase is "asked and answered" to every repeated ad nauseam request, which is probably better parenting at the end of the day.
posted by SpacemanStix at 8:19 PM on October 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by SpacemanStix at 8:19 PM on October 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Liesl asked, I am intrigue and wish to imitate [the trick of answering a question that is different than the one you were really asked]. Do you have an example?
It's super easy! Here, try these examples, with the redirect underlined:
CHILD: Is there a Santa Claus?
SURPRISED PARENT: Uh…wha…?
WILY PARENT (pushing to the fore): Why, who else would have brought you all those gifts? You know that your mom & I don't spend that much money on your kids for Christmas. But it has to be someone who thinks you are pretty great. Who do you think loves you so much?
CHILD: Is there a Tooth Fairy? Are you the one who takes my old teeth and leaves me money?
WILY PARENT: What would I do with them? Between you four kids, that would be like…four time twenty-something -- like eighty or a hundred teeth! But the Tooth Fairy, what would he (or she) do with them? They could maybe build a castle of teeth, that would be waterproof and shiny white!
CHILD: There's no leprechaun in my leprechaun trap! Did you and mom do this?
WILY PARENT: I wonder how they all escaped. I bet they got mad about the fake gold coins you put there. Don't you get mad when you've been tricked? I know I do, too. Maybe that's why the traps are all messed up. Here, let me help you clean this up.
posted by wenestvedt at 8:05 PM on October 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's super easy! Here, try these examples, with the redirect underlined:
CHILD: Is there a Santa Claus?
SURPRISED PARENT: Uh…wha…?
WILY PARENT (pushing to the fore): Why, who else would have brought you all those gifts? You know that your mom & I don't spend that much money on your kids for Christmas. But it has to be someone who thinks you are pretty great. Who do you think loves you so much?
CHILD: Is there a Tooth Fairy? Are you the one who takes my old teeth and leaves me money?
WILY PARENT: What would I do with them? Between you four kids, that would be like…four time twenty-something -- like eighty or a hundred teeth! But the Tooth Fairy, what would he (or she) do with them? They could maybe build a castle of teeth, that would be waterproof and shiny white!
CHILD: There's no leprechaun in my leprechaun trap! Did you and mom do this?
WILY PARENT: I wonder how they all escaped. I bet they got mad about the fake gold coins you put there. Don't you get mad when you've been tricked? I know I do, too. Maybe that's why the traps are all messed up. Here, let me help you clean this up.
posted by wenestvedt at 8:05 PM on October 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
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posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:53 AM on October 8, 2015 [7 favorites]