Corner coup
October 9, 2015 3:41 PM Subscribe
In August, Mara Willaford and Marissa Johnson disrupted a Social Security rally in Seattle and upstaged Bernie Sanders. This week, they gave their first local interview to Real Change, a weekly progressive newspaper sold by self-employed vendors, many of them homeless.
The local response to this was, for the most part, some of the grossest thinly veiled or even open faced racism I've ever seen around here. It was basically just "sit down and shut up". I lost respect for several people I had previously liked or just known and figured were reasonable people.
It was seriously an event that made so many people act like gross redditors. I wrote a long comment on it at the time, but basically, he could have kicked them off the stage at any time and he didn't. The people outraged by it aren't even supporting his own actions.
I've been linking this piece a few times on social media. Freaking fair weather progressives who are on board until a minority gets too "uppity".
posted by emptythought at 4:54 PM on October 9, 2015 [22 favorites]
It was seriously an event that made so many people act like gross redditors. I wrote a long comment on it at the time, but basically, he could have kicked them off the stage at any time and he didn't. The people outraged by it aren't even supporting his own actions.
I've been linking this piece a few times on social media. Freaking fair weather progressives who are on board until a minority gets too "uppity".
posted by emptythought at 4:54 PM on October 9, 2015 [22 favorites]
That was an excellent interview and an excellent read.
posted by AdamCSnider at 7:07 PM on October 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by AdamCSnider at 7:07 PM on October 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Seattle prides itself on its progressivism, but I've honestly not seen it in my fifteen years here. Quite the opposite, actually.
posted by JLovebomb at 8:09 PM on October 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by JLovebomb at 8:09 PM on October 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Progressiveness? Whatever. Maybe it's just me, but this is one of those cities that could take a page from other supposedly less-progressive places I've lived. Also, Real Change is great. I know a lot of people probably buy it from the many vendors without bothering to read it, but there is a lot of local news in Real Change you won't read anywhere else.
posted by JLovebomb at 8:30 PM on October 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by JLovebomb at 8:30 PM on October 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think Seattle is progressive in a similar way to how San Francisco is progressive. (that's a compliment to neither of them).
posted by el io at 1:24 AM on October 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by el io at 1:24 AM on October 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm curious: if Seattle and San Fran don't meet your standards for progressive, then what metro area in the US with over a million people (top 53 of this list) actually does?
Because Portland is at least as problematic as either, and that's about the only one of the remaining 51 metros that's remotely competitive in my experience (having been to all lower 48 states and nearly every major city therein).
posted by Ryvar at 2:00 AM on October 10, 2015
Because Portland is at least as problematic as either, and that's about the only one of the remaining 51 metros that's remotely competitive in my experience (having been to all lower 48 states and nearly every major city therein).
posted by Ryvar at 2:00 AM on October 10, 2015
(if anyone says Boston and/or Cambridge, I will laugh, and laugh, and laugh, and then cry a little, and then do that worrying crying-turning-into-laughter thing, and then gag and vomit a bit, and then that horrible thing where you try to stop yourself from vomiting and wind up inhaling a bit and cough and sputter for full-on ten minutes with acid searing your windpipe. All of which is a pretty apt metaphor for the act of moving to the People's Republic of Cambridge in the hopes that it is "progressive.")
posted by Ryvar at 2:11 AM on October 10, 2015
posted by Ryvar at 2:11 AM on October 10, 2015
I'm curious: if Seattle and San Fran don't meet your standards for progressive, then what metro area in the US with over a million people (top 53 of this list) actually does?
I think the comparative element is pretty critical when people are judging the cities they live in - in terms of "'progressiveness" or any other feature. I live in Chattanooga, and have heard it described as, among other things, a "big city", a "liberal city", and a "dangerous city" - having lived in Chicago, Minneapolis, and several other cities, none of these descriptors were even remotely appropriate in my own head. But for someone whose main points of reference are more local, I can see how that would work.
I also think that in the wider US culture Seattle is viewed as "progressive" in the way that Western Europe is deemed "progressive" - because only a few standout features of the setting actually get communicated through the media, and the more complicated picture of a real place with real people and real issues gets lost. But, of course, on the other foot, I've rarely met anyone - on the Internet or off - who isn't cheerfully willing to declare wherever they live to be the armpit of Hell. Because they have to live with the place, the people, and the issues.
posted by AdamCSnider at 2:13 AM on October 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
I think the comparative element is pretty critical when people are judging the cities they live in - in terms of "'progressiveness" or any other feature. I live in Chattanooga, and have heard it described as, among other things, a "big city", a "liberal city", and a "dangerous city" - having lived in Chicago, Minneapolis, and several other cities, none of these descriptors were even remotely appropriate in my own head. But for someone whose main points of reference are more local, I can see how that would work.
I also think that in the wider US culture Seattle is viewed as "progressive" in the way that Western Europe is deemed "progressive" - because only a few standout features of the setting actually get communicated through the media, and the more complicated picture of a real place with real people and real issues gets lost. But, of course, on the other foot, I've rarely met anyone - on the Internet or off - who isn't cheerfully willing to declare wherever they live to be the armpit of Hell. Because they have to live with the place, the people, and the issues.
posted by AdamCSnider at 2:13 AM on October 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Good point. 20 years in upstate New York, 3.5 in Seattle, 12 in Boston/Cambridge, have visited nearly every one of the 53 metros linked above for at least 3-4 days, plus a month each in San Fran, LA, Irvine, and NYC. Plus two of the worst weeks of my life in Portland (would sincerely sooner self-immolate than revisit), plus a few weeks in Atlanta, a couple in Chicago, and ten days in the Texas panhandle (shudder). Bonus round: a few days in a fortified compound on top of a massive hill/small mountain in backwoods South Carolina, visiting distantly-related in-laws who I later found out were (presumably are) active senior members of the KKK.
Seattle is, in my decidedly shallow-but-broad experience, a fucking Zion for progressives relative to the rest of this country. Hence my what-in-the-fuck reaction: like, if you genuinely know somewhere better, and aren't just complaining, then I want to go to that better place.
posted by Ryvar at 3:18 AM on October 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
Seattle is, in my decidedly shallow-but-broad experience, a fucking Zion for progressives relative to the rest of this country. Hence my what-in-the-fuck reaction: like, if you genuinely know somewhere better, and aren't just complaining, then I want to go to that better place.
posted by Ryvar at 3:18 AM on October 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
Jesus, I had no idea people actually physically went to her parents house. That is so enraging.
posted by corb at 5:52 AM on October 10, 2015
posted by corb at 5:52 AM on October 10, 2015
I often have disputes over some of the more aggressive activists - like PETA for example, who often does things that are "unreasonable".
Thing is, you don't get anywhere to effect real change by being "reasonable". By going "too far" you push the Overton window in your desired direction.
I personally felt that interrupting Bernie Sanders was a good idea, but that Bernie got more mileage out of it than the protestors did, because they sort of blew it - once Sanders stood back politely and let them speak they should have done so and then shaken hands with him and given him a hug, think of the media exposure of that hug picture!
But that's a tactical quibble. You have to keep trying, and pushing the envelope.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 7:42 AM on October 10, 2015
Thing is, you don't get anywhere to effect real change by being "reasonable". By going "too far" you push the Overton window in your desired direction.
I personally felt that interrupting Bernie Sanders was a good idea, but that Bernie got more mileage out of it than the protestors did, because they sort of blew it - once Sanders stood back politely and let them speak they should have done so and then shaken hands with him and given him a hug, think of the media exposure of that hug picture!
But that's a tactical quibble. You have to keep trying, and pushing the envelope.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 7:42 AM on October 10, 2015
I found some of this these lines very affecting.
"To me, it’s ridiculous because there’s no room within the current system for either party to serve black lives in a way that is humanizing or in a way that is beneficial."
"There is no path to freedom, there is no path to healing where nobody has to give up anything. "
"Right, ‘cause people never give us any agency over our actions at all or talk about our strategy or our politics. I think it’s much easier for them to just say well, they’re just misguided and emotional, and hysterical even. "
posted by Hicksu at 9:34 AM on October 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
"To me, it’s ridiculous because there’s no room within the current system for either party to serve black lives in a way that is humanizing or in a way that is beneficial."
"There is no path to freedom, there is no path to healing where nobody has to give up anything. "
"Right, ‘cause people never give us any agency over our actions at all or talk about our strategy or our politics. I think it’s much easier for them to just say well, they’re just misguided and emotional, and hysterical even. "
posted by Hicksu at 9:34 AM on October 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm curious: if Seattle and San Fran don't meet your standards for progressive, then what metro area in the US with over a million people (top 53 of this list) actually does?
Fair question. I guess my answer is that there are NO true Scottsmen.
More to the point... The city itself is becoming significantly less and less affordable; how progressive can a city really be if only upper-class people can afford to live in it? It's not SF level unaffordable yet, but NYC certainly seemed more affordable than SF last time I checked.
It has a 'gay neighborhood'; this isn't a bad thing at all, however... When I first moved there (in the early 90's) there was a 'pink patrol' that existed to physically protect the residents against physical gay-bashing violence. How progressive can a city be if it needs such a thing (and why couldn't cops provide this sort of protection if it was needed?). Later when I lived there (the late 00's), there wasn't a pink patrol anymore, but there were still incidents of gay-bashing on capital hill.
Also, it was relatively well known that the alcohol licensing body was biased against hip-hop clubs (ie: would deny them licenses/revoke them more easily)... In my mind this seemed simply racist.
Maybe (certainly) Seattle is more liberal and more progressive than most US cities, but it certainly hasn't gone far enough to earn the smugness that its residents seem to have.
posted by el io at 9:45 AM on October 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Fair question. I guess my answer is that there are NO true Scottsmen.
More to the point... The city itself is becoming significantly less and less affordable; how progressive can a city really be if only upper-class people can afford to live in it? It's not SF level unaffordable yet, but NYC certainly seemed more affordable than SF last time I checked.
It has a 'gay neighborhood'; this isn't a bad thing at all, however... When I first moved there (in the early 90's) there was a 'pink patrol' that existed to physically protect the residents against physical gay-bashing violence. How progressive can a city be if it needs such a thing (and why couldn't cops provide this sort of protection if it was needed?). Later when I lived there (the late 00's), there wasn't a pink patrol anymore, but there were still incidents of gay-bashing on capital hill.
Also, it was relatively well known that the alcohol licensing body was biased against hip-hop clubs (ie: would deny them licenses/revoke them more easily)... In my mind this seemed simply racist.
Maybe (certainly) Seattle is more liberal and more progressive than most US cities, but it certainly hasn't gone far enough to earn the smugness that its residents seem to have.
posted by el io at 9:45 AM on October 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm curious: if Seattle and San Fran don't meet your standards for progressive, then what metro area in the US with over a million people (top 53 of this list) actually does?
None.
Luckily (and this might shock you) the US isn't the only region on planet Earth with cities.
posted by lastobelus at 11:10 AM on October 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
None.
Luckily (and this might shock you) the US isn't the only region on planet Earth with cities.
posted by lastobelus at 11:10 AM on October 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm curious: if Seattle and San Fran don't meet your standards for progressive, then what metro area in the US with over a million people (top 53 of this list) actually does?
It's not quite an answer to your question, but: Oakland. Or more broadly speaking, Oakland, Richmond, and to a lesser extent Berkeley.
re: Seattle, on the one hand, a lot of the white people there are completely terrible, but on the other hand, Seattle did elect Kshama Sawant, so there are in fact glimmers of hope in that town.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:11 PM on October 10, 2015
It's not quite an answer to your question, but: Oakland. Or more broadly speaking, Oakland, Richmond, and to a lesser extent Berkeley.
re: Seattle, on the one hand, a lot of the white people there are completely terrible, but on the other hand, Seattle did elect Kshama Sawant, so there are in fact glimmers of hope in that town.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:11 PM on October 10, 2015
Maybe (certainly) Seattle is more liberal and more progressive than most US cities, but it certainly hasn't gone far enough to earn the smugness that its residents seem to have.
Honestly, to at least try and close the loop on this semi-derail which i feel is sort of my fault, even living in seattle for my entire life and rolling around in various progressive/activist groups or spaces that were full of such for almost all that time(home schooled hippie kid, arts groups, art school, alternative school, etc afterwards)... i've met an awful lot more people who like to complain about smug people who act like seattle is more progressive than it is than people who act that way.
If you asked me to actually name someone who said something to that effect or presented that attitude i wouldn't be able to remember their name. I could probably name 10 people from meatspace who have recently said something to that effect, though.
So, IMHO, "smug people who think seattle is more progressive than it is" has become a sort of meme among progressive-y seattle people who are, in and of themselves, being smug and trying to elevate above the perceived Awful White People or whatever.
And seriously, this town has some of the worst white guilt self flagellating motherfuckers i've met anywhere. That statement, when uttered by someone in seattle always seems like smug self aggrandizing bullshit at best. When uttered by someone outside of it, i sort of have the "ok so where is better?" response. Because i think "not the best or anything, but better than a lot of places" isn't an untrue statement and in my experience being various other places, i have to agree with Ryvar.
posted by emptythought at 2:27 PM on October 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Honestly, to at least try and close the loop on this semi-derail which i feel is sort of my fault, even living in seattle for my entire life and rolling around in various progressive/activist groups or spaces that were full of such for almost all that time(home schooled hippie kid, arts groups, art school, alternative school, etc afterwards)... i've met an awful lot more people who like to complain about smug people who act like seattle is more progressive than it is than people who act that way.
If you asked me to actually name someone who said something to that effect or presented that attitude i wouldn't be able to remember their name. I could probably name 10 people from meatspace who have recently said something to that effect, though.
So, IMHO, "smug people who think seattle is more progressive than it is" has become a sort of meme among progressive-y seattle people who are, in and of themselves, being smug and trying to elevate above the perceived Awful White People or whatever.
And seriously, this town has some of the worst white guilt self flagellating motherfuckers i've met anywhere. That statement, when uttered by someone in seattle always seems like smug self aggrandizing bullshit at best. When uttered by someone outside of it, i sort of have the "ok so where is better?" response. Because i think "not the best or anything, but better than a lot of places" isn't an untrue statement and in my experience being various other places, i have to agree with Ryvar.
posted by emptythought at 2:27 PM on October 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
How's Ithaca doing lately?
According to my grandparents, it is going to the dogs - but then, they were saying that twenty years ago, as well. Downtown had been re-done a bit when I was there last, but all the great old used bookstores were still open and, well, that's really the only basis I ever use to judge the health of college towns, frankly.
posted by AdamCSnider at 7:35 PM on October 10, 2015
According to my grandparents, it is going to the dogs - but then, they were saying that twenty years ago, as well. Downtown had been re-done a bit when I was there last, but all the great old used bookstores were still open and, well, that's really the only basis I ever use to judge the health of college towns, frankly.
posted by AdamCSnider at 7:35 PM on October 10, 2015
Mod note: Maybe we can try to avoid a complete "rate American cities for progressiveness or lack thereof" derail here. There's plenty to discuss about the interview, which wasn't really about comparing cities, and this is the sort of sidebar that can can easily dominate an entire thread.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:59 AM on October 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by taz (staff) at 12:59 AM on October 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
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By Robby Stern) with some information about the backstory, but I am not able to find it online.
posted by bq at 3:45 PM on October 9, 2015