كل ما تبذلونه من قاعدة هي ملك لنا
October 14, 2015 8:07 PM Subscribe
Homeland gets pranked. Season 5 of Golden Globe winning TV show Homeland (currently showing on Showtime) has Carrie living in Berlin, so it was largely filmed in Germany, even some bits that appear to be in other countries. The crew built a very convincing set of a middle-east refugee camp that is first seen in episode 2, and for added authenticity they hired local German arabic graffiti artists to give the walls authentic arabic graffiti. Trouble is, the artists actually wrote slogans such as "Homeland is racist" and "This show does not represent the views of the artists".
Of course this would be even funnier if Homeland actually was racist, which a lot of people dispute.
Of course this would be even funnier if Homeland actually was racist, which a lot of people dispute.
This is a hilarious prank, regardless of the show being racist or not.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:12 PM on October 14, 2015 [30 favorites]
posted by Drinky Die at 8:12 PM on October 14, 2015 [30 favorites]
Since the link in the FPP is going to drift away from the article in question when the site next gets updated, here's a direct link to the post.
posted by fifthrider at 8:20 PM on October 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by fifthrider at 8:20 PM on October 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Um, Homeland released this ridiculously orientalist poster in 2014. This prank is well-deserved.
posted by Corduroy at 8:23 PM on October 14, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by Corduroy at 8:23 PM on October 14, 2015 [16 favorites]
My rule of thumb with stuff like this is that if it were being genuinely sensitive to Muslims, there would probably have had someone, just ONE person, at some point in the production process, who was actually literate in Arabic and would have noticed this. The fact that it could possibly be more racist than it presently is doesn't mean that it's handling everything with the understanding and sensitivity it should require. They shouldn't need to hire outsiders. There should be people involved in the show production already.
posted by Sequence at 8:26 PM on October 14, 2015 [95 favorites]
posted by Sequence at 8:26 PM on October 14, 2015 [95 favorites]
Seems like Homeland's previous langage problem wasn't a one-off.
Game of Thrones hired a guy to literally create a new language. Homeland apparently can't even be bothered hiring people who speak the languages it uses.
posted by No-sword at 8:31 PM on October 14, 2015 [36 favorites]
Game of Thrones hired a guy to literally create a new language. Homeland apparently can't even be bothered hiring people who speak the languages it uses.
posted by No-sword at 8:31 PM on October 14, 2015 [36 favorites]
The fact that it could possibly be more racist than it presently is doesn't mean that it's handling everything with the understanding and sensitivity it should require. They shouldn't need to hire outsiders. There should be people involved in the show production already.
From your mouth to Matt Damon's ears!
posted by TenaciousB at 8:33 PM on October 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
From your mouth to Matt Damon's ears!
posted by TenaciousB at 8:33 PM on October 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
Homeland is quite good this season but this is still really funny.
posted by Justinian at 8:34 PM on October 14, 2015
posted by Justinian at 8:34 PM on October 14, 2015
Google translate for the title: كل ما تبذلونه من قاعدة هي ملك لنا
posted by benito.strauss at 8:40 PM on October 14, 2015 [30 favorites]
posted by benito.strauss at 8:40 PM on October 14, 2015 [30 favorites]
What's Arabic for "top kek"?
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:41 PM on October 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:41 PM on October 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
What's Arabic for "top kek"?
Goog translate sez:
أكبر شركة كهرباء كوسوفو
Which translates back to "Kosovo's largest electricity company", lol. Err, kek.
posted by slater at 8:45 PM on October 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Goog translate sez:
أكبر شركة كهرباء كوسوفو
Which translates back to "Kosovo's largest electricity company", lol. Err, kek.
posted by slater at 8:45 PM on October 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
The "most bigoted show on television" piece linked in the first article makes a convincing case, I think.
posted by mediareport at 8:45 PM on October 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by mediareport at 8:45 PM on October 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's not usually visual, but this is really just part of a grand old tradition.
posted by mstokes650 at 8:47 PM on October 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by mstokes650 at 8:47 PM on October 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
Reminds me of the urban legend (Snopes still doesn't know if it is true, but I read it in Readers' Digest at least 30 years ago) that one of the African extras in the film Zulu, when told to say "something, anything" in his native Zulu language, stood up, shook his spear and loudly shouted, "I am not being paid enough for my role in this film!"
posted by seasparrow at 8:53 PM on October 14, 2015 [57 favorites]
posted by seasparrow at 8:53 PM on October 14, 2015 [57 favorites]
I love Homeland and simultaneously think it's crypto-fascist and maybe racist, and also more subtle than that. I also think this prank is hilarious. It's possible to hold multiple conflicting opinions at once. (Do you like the show too? Join us on Fanfare!).
The prank reminds me of a talk game developer Rami Ismail gave at XOXO Festival this year (a bit like this other talk). He spent 15 minutes teaching us very rudimentary written Arabic, enough to pronounce the phonemes for a few words. All to lead up to an indictment of a video game where the game designers had the wrong Arabic as a sign on a hotel, a bunch of gibberish instead of a meaningful word. Making the point of the stupidity of creating a whole game about killing people in an Arabic-speaking city without having a single Arabic-speaking person on staff to at least verify the Arabic signs. It's really kind of appalling.
How could Homeland not have a single Arabic-speaking production assistant working on the show? Admittedly the graffiti was sort of a background detail, maybe it just slipped by, but still..
posted by Nelson at 9:15 PM on October 14, 2015 [16 favorites]
The prank reminds me of a talk game developer Rami Ismail gave at XOXO Festival this year (a bit like this other talk). He spent 15 minutes teaching us very rudimentary written Arabic, enough to pronounce the phonemes for a few words. All to lead up to an indictment of a video game where the game designers had the wrong Arabic as a sign on a hotel, a bunch of gibberish instead of a meaningful word. Making the point of the stupidity of creating a whole game about killing people in an Arabic-speaking city without having a single Arabic-speaking person on staff to at least verify the Arabic signs. It's really kind of appalling.
How could Homeland not have a single Arabic-speaking production assistant working on the show? Admittedly the graffiti was sort of a background detail, maybe it just slipped by, but still..
posted by Nelson at 9:15 PM on October 14, 2015 [16 favorites]
Authentic graffiti would have been scores of mobile numbers for taxis. Ok, not for a refugee camp.
In my travels, Beirut's graffiti was the most conscious of a tradition, with many templates.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 9:31 PM on October 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
In my travels, Beirut's graffiti was the most conscious of a tradition, with many templates.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 9:31 PM on October 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Seasparrow, a while ago I read in one of the Dos and Taboos books about a sneaker company that made a commercial with someone in an African country speaking in his language. What he said was something to the effect of "I don't like these. Get me different shoes".
posted by brujita at 9:54 PM on October 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by brujita at 9:54 PM on October 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
The big shoes commercial on Snopes, with some more examples.
posted by Dr Dracator at 10:11 PM on October 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Dr Dracator at 10:11 PM on October 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is the show that had Iranians working with Al Qaeda. So, yeah.
posted by persona au gratin at 12:03 AM on October 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by persona au gratin at 12:03 AM on October 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
And yet it's somehow even less fictional than the rationale for the Iraq War. What a fun country to live in.
posted by Drinky Die at 12:28 AM on October 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Drinky Die at 12:28 AM on October 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
After quitting this show during season 2, I have a head-canon ending for season 1 which most people who have seen it can guess.
posted by Pendragon at 12:34 AM on October 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Pendragon at 12:34 AM on October 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
Stay tuned -- I'm pretty sure the guy who explained how the show isn't really racist will have a follow-on article where he complains about the tone of the graffiti.
posted by Killick at 12:52 AM on October 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Killick at 12:52 AM on October 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
The British broadcaster Andy Kershaw used to organise gigs at Leeds University while a student there. He proved to be very good at it and, as a result, found himself hired to stage a 1982 Rolling Stones concert at the city's Roundhay Park.
One of the Stones' demands was that an elaborate Japanese garden be built for them and their guests in the backstage area, and Kershaw had to find a Japanese student at Leeds who could paint "Welcome Rolling Stones" in Japanese characters near the garden's entrance. He got that sorted, then got on with meeting the million and one other last minute (and utterly ridiculous) demands the band then took as its right. The Stones' people ran Kershaw's team ragged with the pampering they demanded the band receive, and Kershaw got increasingly pissed off about this. While the Japanese student was there, he suggested, perhaps she'd like to add a little custom calligraphy to the garden's parasols.
"When Jagger and the band were later luxuriating, post performance, in their indoor oriental garden, with their friends perhaps lingering on the delightful bridge to remark on the koi in the pool below, I trust they also admired the parasols," he writes in his autobiography. "For each was decorated exquisitely with the hand-painted greeting, in Japanese: 'Fuck you, Rolling Stones'."
posted by Paul Slade at 1:19 AM on October 15, 2015 [29 favorites]
One of the Stones' demands was that an elaborate Japanese garden be built for them and their guests in the backstage area, and Kershaw had to find a Japanese student at Leeds who could paint "Welcome Rolling Stones" in Japanese characters near the garden's entrance. He got that sorted, then got on with meeting the million and one other last minute (and utterly ridiculous) demands the band then took as its right. The Stones' people ran Kershaw's team ragged with the pampering they demanded the band receive, and Kershaw got increasingly pissed off about this. While the Japanese student was there, he suggested, perhaps she'd like to add a little custom calligraphy to the garden's parasols.
"When Jagger and the band were later luxuriating, post performance, in their indoor oriental garden, with their friends perhaps lingering on the delightful bridge to remark on the koi in the pool below, I trust they also admired the parasols," he writes in his autobiography. "For each was decorated exquisitely with the hand-painted greeting, in Japanese: 'Fuck you, Rolling Stones'."
posted by Paul Slade at 1:19 AM on October 15, 2015 [29 favorites]
Killick: "Stay tuned -- I'm pretty sure the guy who explained how the show isn't really racist will have a follow-on article where he complains about the tone of the graffiti."
Hey, yeah, let's pre-emptively get angry about an imagined future outrage! Awesome!
posted by Bugbread at 1:35 AM on October 15, 2015
Hey, yeah, let's pre-emptively get angry about an imagined future outrage! Awesome!
posted by Bugbread at 1:35 AM on October 15, 2015
The word "pranked" is trivialising. This was a protest not a prank.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:41 AM on October 15, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 2:41 AM on October 15, 2015 [14 favorites]
"Romans go home."
posted by wenestvedt at 3:02 AM on October 15, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 3:02 AM on October 15, 2015 [16 favorites]
Bugbread: No outrage, and I don’t really expect a follow-on article. My comment was a (probably inept) attempt to point out how tiresome it is to members of underrepresented groups when a non-member explains the nuances that we’ve missed in a given behavior, and how unjustified it is to take offense. The lecture is often accompanied by a complaint about tone.
posted by Killick at 3:03 AM on October 15, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by Killick at 3:03 AM on October 15, 2015 [13 favorites]
As someone still slightly bitter over being suckered into watching part of season 1 by the voters who gave it several of "Breaking Bad"'s Emmys, I approve this prank.
posted by HillbillyInBC at 4:27 AM on October 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by HillbillyInBC at 4:27 AM on October 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
Peter Ustinov used to claim that when he was asked to make arabic-sounding noises in a film the genuine arab extras walked off the set because he had inadvertently called them all 'tortoise shit'.
posted by Segundus at 5:08 AM on October 15, 2015
posted by Segundus at 5:08 AM on October 15, 2015
I get the impression that, of the many TV shows that demand Arabface stereotypes for various parts, Homeland is one of the better ones. People may get to have a few lines prior to yelling "Allahu Akbar" and becoming victim of either a bomb belt of sniper.
posted by rongorongo at 5:27 AM on October 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by rongorongo at 5:27 AM on October 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Given the show's provenance (...created by “24” veterans Howard Gordon and Alex Gansa and former Israeli paratrooper Gideon Raff...) I'm not sure any of this should come as a surprise.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:28 AM on October 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 5:28 AM on October 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
But ignorance should not be mistaken for bigotryThinking you're qualified to make a show about a culture you're completely ignorant about is stupidity.
The racial stereotypes and all the other crap Homeland pulls, that's bigotry.
Ignorance is a weak excuse.
posted by xqwzts at 5:40 AM on October 15, 2015 [13 favorites]
Homeland is pure arabface, and also has some problems with the representation of the mentally ill. But Claire Danes! Still utterly charming.
posted by dis_integration at 5:47 AM on October 15, 2015
posted by dis_integration at 5:47 AM on October 15, 2015
Homeland shot a scene in season 2 ostensibly set in Beirut's Hamra Street. Run down, dilapidated, dirty, grey, and full of terrorists [naturally].
Obviously they couldn't come and shoot in Beirut, I guess Arabs might spontaneously explode at the mere sight of White people, so they shot it in Tel Aviv instead. It truly was an ugly scene.
Homeland’s War on Beirut
posted by xqwzts at 5:57 AM on October 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
Obviously they couldn't come and shoot in Beirut, I guess Arabs might spontaneously explode at the mere sight of White people, so they shot it in Tel Aviv instead. It truly was an ugly scene.
Homeland’s War on Beirut
posted by xqwzts at 5:57 AM on October 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
Homeland should be regarded as what it is: a Cheney-era propaganda series (itself derived from a Netanyahu-era propaganda series), the modern equivalent of 1950s radio serials with bold G-men unmasking Commie spies, or John Wayne westerns in which the villains wore black hats and were unambiguously evil. Which isn't to say that it's without merit, just that the fundamental facts of this genre and its conventions suffuse its very substance, as much as the need for Pavlovian catchiness suffuses modern radio-friendly pop songs.
posted by acb at 6:07 AM on October 15, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by acb at 6:07 AM on October 15, 2015 [8 favorites]
if Homeland actually was racist, which a lot of people dispute
Homeland actually is racist and those who dispute it are wrong and probably racist themselves. As pointed out above, the "dispute" link basically argues that the show is not as racist as it might be. Bringing that up here is false balance. I've tried watching Homeland and it's just too fucking painful. The show is "a device that perpetuates racist ideas that have real consequences for ordinary people’s lives."
posted by exogenous at 6:31 AM on October 15, 2015 [21 favorites]
Homeland actually is racist and those who dispute it are wrong and probably racist themselves. As pointed out above, the "dispute" link basically argues that the show is not as racist as it might be. Bringing that up here is false balance. I've tried watching Homeland and it's just too fucking painful. The show is "a device that perpetuates racist ideas that have real consequences for ordinary people’s lives."
posted by exogenous at 6:31 AM on October 15, 2015 [21 favorites]
Homeland should be regarded as what it is: a Cheney-era propaganda series
It's possible to go further than that and posit that almost all mainstream television that deals with political issues (and I'm including cop shows in that) is essentially propaganda designed to justify the behaviour of the military and police and render difference or divergence from the norm as a material threat to the "normal" viewer. It's a position that I came into contact with when I read Harlan Ellison's Great Glass Teat essays in the late 70s and I don't think it's any less true now than it was when he wrote them in the late 60s.
posted by Grangousier at 6:37 AM on October 15, 2015 [17 favorites]
It's possible to go further than that and posit that almost all mainstream television that deals with political issues (and I'm including cop shows in that) is essentially propaganda designed to justify the behaviour of the military and police and render difference or divergence from the norm as a material threat to the "normal" viewer. It's a position that I came into contact with when I read Harlan Ellison's Great Glass Teat essays in the late 70s and I don't think it's any less true now than it was when he wrote them in the late 60s.
posted by Grangousier at 6:37 AM on October 15, 2015 [17 favorites]
(It's The Glass Teat of course. I think I may have been conflating Ellison and Roald Dahl there. I don't think anyone's ever done that before.)
posted by Grangousier at 6:45 AM on October 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 6:45 AM on October 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
I own this t-shirt. (See also: this shirt.) I think it's beautiful on its visual merits and awesome on its literate ones.
And I'm STILL nervous about wearing it in public, because even though that's the whole point of the shirt, I worry that I'll say some part of the translation wrong, or that the creator is still saying something other than what is listed.
posted by St. Hubbins at 7:46 AM on October 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
And I'm STILL nervous about wearing it in public, because even though that's the whole point of the shirt, I worry that I'll say some part of the translation wrong, or that the creator is still saying something other than what is listed.
posted by St. Hubbins at 7:46 AM on October 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
A hearty Huzzah! for this Baudrillardian monkeywrenchery!
posted by Bob Regular at 7:47 AM on October 15, 2015
posted by Bob Regular at 7:47 AM on October 15, 2015
I can't believe how many people are alleging that Homeland isn't racist. That show is evil. They've fucked up all manner of things regarding to setting and culture. That alone should qualify this show for being racist, and all I hear are excuses that Hollywood just gets things wrong anyway? Like exogenous said in a comment I wish I could favorite a million times, it's a painful show that has real and detrimental consequences for actual humans.
The reasons why my Muslim (South Asian and otherwise) friends face significant problems traveling or even living in their own communities free from harassment. People watch this shit and then they get angry and afraid. In comment threads discussing this show, I've seen the Middle East referred to as "one big clusterfuck" and a "sandbox". Places like Islamabad and Beirut -- two extremely gorgeous cities with rich histories -- are made to look like rundown shitholes nobody would ever want to live in. Hizbollah and Al-Qaeda are somehow friends in this show. Suddenly we find that every brown person is a terrorist. I've seen comments like: "Who'd ever want to visit? I can't imagine anyone has the middle east high on their list of places they'd like to see. God, this is some bullshit, and a DIRECT CONSEQUENCE of watching a show in which these toxic prejudices are reinforced constantly.
Can you imagine being a Muslim kid from the Middle East/Central/South Asia growing up in this country and reading this shit? Can you imagine being a kid and watching Homeland and thinking that everyone around you sees you, your brothers and sisters as expendable, terrorist sympathizers, or self-loathing victims of domestic abuse? If you consider that an acceptable consequence, there's something really wrong with you.
(Heck, my own brother has been detained by airport security SINCE HE WAS FOURTEEN because he's brown, thin, tall and sometimes wears a beard.)
It's no coincidence that everyone I know who loves Homeland is White. And post breathless reviews of the show on Facebook. Well, sure, it's easy to love a show that loves you back.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that these graffiti artists are heroes.
And fuck yes, this show is racist.
posted by orangutan at 7:47 AM on October 15, 2015 [47 favorites]
The reasons why my Muslim (South Asian and otherwise) friends face significant problems traveling or even living in their own communities free from harassment. People watch this shit and then they get angry and afraid. In comment threads discussing this show, I've seen the Middle East referred to as "one big clusterfuck" and a "sandbox". Places like Islamabad and Beirut -- two extremely gorgeous cities with rich histories -- are made to look like rundown shitholes nobody would ever want to live in. Hizbollah and Al-Qaeda are somehow friends in this show. Suddenly we find that every brown person is a terrorist. I've seen comments like: "Who'd ever want to visit? I can't imagine anyone has the middle east high on their list of places they'd like to see. God, this is some bullshit, and a DIRECT CONSEQUENCE of watching a show in which these toxic prejudices are reinforced constantly.
Can you imagine being a Muslim kid from the Middle East/Central/South Asia growing up in this country and reading this shit? Can you imagine being a kid and watching Homeland and thinking that everyone around you sees you, your brothers and sisters as expendable, terrorist sympathizers, or self-loathing victims of domestic abuse? If you consider that an acceptable consequence, there's something really wrong with you.
(Heck, my own brother has been detained by airport security SINCE HE WAS FOURTEEN because he's brown, thin, tall and sometimes wears a beard.)
It's no coincidence that everyone I know who loves Homeland is White. And post breathless reviews of the show on Facebook. Well, sure, it's easy to love a show that loves you back.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that these graffiti artists are heroes.
And fuck yes, this show is racist.
posted by orangutan at 7:47 AM on October 15, 2015 [47 favorites]
wenestvedt beat me to it. ROMANES EUNT DOMUS
posted by terrapin at 7:47 AM on October 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by terrapin at 7:47 AM on October 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Season 5 of Golden Globe winning TV show Homeland
That seems like a weird way to refer to a show which, after all, won the Emmy for Best Drama. As far as I can tell the GGs aren't nearly as prestigious?
posted by Justinian at 7:53 AM on October 15, 2015
That seems like a weird way to refer to a show which, after all, won the Emmy for Best Drama. As far as I can tell the GGs aren't nearly as prestigious?
posted by Justinian at 7:53 AM on October 15, 2015
Orangutan, I understand your point and do not disagree that it reinforces held beliefs, but let's not think for a second that Homeland planted the ideas some people have about the Middle East in their heads. You wouldn't be able to follow the show if you were not already aware of current world views of each culture.
posted by archimago at 8:10 AM on October 15, 2015
posted by archimago at 8:10 AM on October 15, 2015
I'm pretty sure a lot of watchers did not seek out Homeland because of it's cultural views, they read reviews and saw critics fawning over it and gave it a go. They've now sat through five years of racist bullshit, which will influence their worldview.
posted by xqwzts at 8:15 AM on October 15, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by xqwzts at 8:15 AM on October 15, 2015 [9 favorites]
Now do one for Homeland's glorification of the illegal surveillance state.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:22 AM on October 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:22 AM on October 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't know if Homeland is racist, though their depiction of Beirut was fairly egregious and conflating al Qaeda, Hezbollah, and Iran is one of my pet peeves of middle eastern stereotyping.
What I do know is that a show that could have become an interesting thriller series turned into a tedious exploration of Carrie and Brody's ridiculous romance instead of having Brody blow himself up at the end of season 1.
I kind of wish these pranksters had waited until the episode was broadcast and waited for the news about the Arabic phrases to trickle out on its own, but I suspect that Arabic speakers have up on the show a long time ago.
posted by deanc at 8:27 AM on October 15, 2015
What I do know is that a show that could have become an interesting thriller series turned into a tedious exploration of Carrie and Brody's ridiculous romance instead of having Brody blow himself up at the end of season 1.
I kind of wish these pranksters had waited until the episode was broadcast and waited for the news about the Arabic phrases to trickle out on its own, but I suspect that Arabic speakers have up on the show a long time ago.
posted by deanc at 8:27 AM on October 15, 2015
I agree; Homeland wasn't the originator of many of these ideas. It's simply a wildly popular show with a huge viewer base that synthesized a hodgepodge of dangerous stereotypes into one delicious racist cocktail.
Let's also not pretend that the show's authoritative lens, slick (but dumb) production didn't introduce people to sophisticated levels of bigotry.
posted by orangutan at 8:31 AM on October 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
Let's also not pretend that the show's authoritative lens, slick (but dumb) production didn't introduce people to sophisticated levels of bigotry.
posted by orangutan at 8:31 AM on October 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
>I think I may have been conflating Ellison and Roald Dahl there. I don't think anyone's ever done that before.
Augustus went white. It was almost as though he had seen a voodoo icon, and was afraid of the future. "Oh, God," he mumbled, and walked away. The three of us followed him after a time, and found him sitting with his back to one of the smaller chocolate banks, his head in his hands. Veruca knelt down beside him and stroked his hair. He didn't move, but his voice came out of his covered face quite clearly. "Why doesn't he just do us in and get it over with? Christ, I don't know how much longer I can go on like this."
It was our one hundred and ninth year in the chocolate factory.
posted by EarBucket at 8:38 AM on October 15, 2015 [26 favorites]
Augustus went white. It was almost as though he had seen a voodoo icon, and was afraid of the future. "Oh, God," he mumbled, and walked away. The three of us followed him after a time, and found him sitting with his back to one of the smaller chocolate banks, his head in his hands. Veruca knelt down beside him and stroked his hair. He didn't move, but his voice came out of his covered face quite clearly. "Why doesn't he just do us in and get it over with? Christ, I don't know how much longer I can go on like this."
It was our one hundred and ninth year in the chocolate factory.
posted by EarBucket at 8:38 AM on October 15, 2015 [26 favorites]
Homeland showrunner Alex Gansa tells Deadline of the incident, “We wish we’d caught these images before they made it to air. However, as Homeland always strives to be subversive in its own right and a stimulus for conversation, we can’t help but admire this act of artistic sabotage.”
What's "shit sandwich" in arabic, again?
posted by progosk at 8:46 AM on October 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
What's "shit sandwich" in arabic, again?
posted by progosk at 8:46 AM on October 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
And I'm STILL nervous about wearing it in public, because even though that's the whole point of the shirt, I worry that I'll say some part of the translation wrong, or that the creator is still saying something other than what is listed.
Or, y'know, some cop or "patriot" going all 9/11 on you because your shirt has "terrorist writing" on it.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:51 AM on October 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
Or, y'know, some cop or "patriot" going all 9/11 on you because your shirt has "terrorist writing" on it.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:51 AM on October 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
As far as the "orientalism" of the poster, I interpret it completely differently. I see it as representing the loneliness of the main character (she's an outsider in so many ways). The red is the blood she has on her hands.
She does not represent everyone with mental illness. She is one woman who experiences it in the way it is portrayed. You can take any television show and do this. Will & Grace does not represent my life as a gay person!! I can't identify with the Huxtables!
I'm not saying they don't have factual problems that can be far better researched, but seriously -- who will make the show about religious fundamentalism and not have half the world screaming it's X, Y and Z.
I love this show. And the thoughts I'm left with are how fucked up the U.S. govt. is, not anything about Islam.
It's a TV show. It's meant for adults. It's warping the identity of young Muslim boys and girls? Prove it. I can't even imagine wanting to watch this show as a child.
posted by archimago at 9:01 AM on October 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
She does not represent everyone with mental illness. She is one woman who experiences it in the way it is portrayed. You can take any television show and do this. Will & Grace does not represent my life as a gay person!! I can't identify with the Huxtables!
I'm not saying they don't have factual problems that can be far better researched, but seriously -- who will make the show about religious fundamentalism and not have half the world screaming it's X, Y and Z.
I love this show. And the thoughts I'm left with are how fucked up the U.S. govt. is, not anything about Islam.
It's a TV show. It's meant for adults. It's warping the identity of young Muslim boys and girls? Prove it. I can't even imagine wanting to watch this show as a child.
posted by archimago at 9:01 AM on October 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
I love this show. And the thoughts I'm left with are how fucked up the U.S. govt. is, not anything about Islam.
So you think their portrayals of Middle Easterners are accurate?
posted by xqwzts at 9:14 AM on October 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
So you think their portrayals of Middle Easterners are accurate?
posted by xqwzts at 9:14 AM on October 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments deleted. Just denying the premise without engaging at all with what anybody else has said isn't a good way to engage here. And everybody, please remember to flag things and move on.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:18 AM on October 15, 2015
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:18 AM on October 15, 2015
> Zulu, when told to say "something, anything" in his native Zulu language, stood up, shook his spear and loudly shouted, "I am not being paid enough for my role in this film!"
Reminds me of the Red Dwarf series 3 episode "Backwards," which featured the crew arriving on a world where time seemed to go backwards. 2 of them started a vaudeville act in a pub where they do things forwards, such as eating an egg or drinking a glass of water.
Then they get fired by the pub manager who reams them over a fight they are about to start. However, when you reverse what the actor (Arthur Smith) actually said, you get a different message altogether. (contains some low-grade anglo swearing).
posted by Sunburnt at 9:45 AM on October 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
Reminds me of the Red Dwarf series 3 episode "Backwards," which featured the crew arriving on a world where time seemed to go backwards. 2 of them started a vaudeville act in a pub where they do things forwards, such as eating an egg or drinking a glass of water.
Then they get fired by the pub manager who reams them over a fight they are about to start. However, when you reverse what the actor (Arthur Smith) actually said, you get a different message altogether. (contains some low-grade anglo swearing).
posted by Sunburnt at 9:45 AM on October 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
From Middle East Eye:
"'For four seasons…Homeland has maintained the dichotomy of the photogenic, mainly white, mostly American versus the evil and backwards Muslim threat,' the artists wrote."
From The New York Times' Bina Shah:
". . . [T]he season’s first hour, in which Carrie also goes to Islamabad, offers up a hundred little clues that tell me this isn’t the country where I grew up, or live. When a tribal boy examines the dead in his village, I hear everyone speaking Urdu, not the region’s Pashto. Protesters gather across from the American Embassy in Islamabad, when in reality the embassy is hidden inside a diplomatic enclave to which public access is extremely limited. I find out later that the season was filmed in Cape Town, South Africa, with its Indian Muslim community standing in for Pakistanis.
I realize afterward that I’ve been creating a test, for the creators of “Homeland” and all who would sell an imagined image of Pakistan: If this isn’t really Pakistan, and these aren’t really Pakistanis, then how they see us isn’t really true."
From the Chicago Monitor's Noor Salahuddin:
". . . [A]s an American Muslim and keen observer of international politics, I could not ignore the troubling and reoccurring factual errors about Islam, Muslims, and the Middle East. These manifest in the dialogue and plot, making it difficult to discuss the show without addressing its problematic narrative which required suspension of disbelief about the Muslim community."
From TheWrap's brief interview of ME and US Foreign Policy expert Fawaz Gerges on the matter:
"'There’s a tendency on the part of Hollywood to reduce the humanity of the so-called ‘other,’ whether being the Russians, or being the Chinese, Vietnamese, or now the Iranians,' he said. 'This is the tendency, a very destructive tendency.'"
And here's a bonus Salon article from Laila Al-Arian, who co-authored Collateral Damage: America's War Against Iraqi Civilians.
When I hear a variety of people describing Homeland's negative real-life implications, I'm very very inclined to believe them. And when I see some of the subjects of Homeland successfully subvert them, I'm very very inclined to cheer them on.
posted by Ashen at 9:46 AM on October 15, 2015 [15 favorites]
"'For four seasons…Homeland has maintained the dichotomy of the photogenic, mainly white, mostly American versus the evil and backwards Muslim threat,' the artists wrote."
From The New York Times' Bina Shah:
". . . [T]he season’s first hour, in which Carrie also goes to Islamabad, offers up a hundred little clues that tell me this isn’t the country where I grew up, or live. When a tribal boy examines the dead in his village, I hear everyone speaking Urdu, not the region’s Pashto. Protesters gather across from the American Embassy in Islamabad, when in reality the embassy is hidden inside a diplomatic enclave to which public access is extremely limited. I find out later that the season was filmed in Cape Town, South Africa, with its Indian Muslim community standing in for Pakistanis.
I realize afterward that I’ve been creating a test, for the creators of “Homeland” and all who would sell an imagined image of Pakistan: If this isn’t really Pakistan, and these aren’t really Pakistanis, then how they see us isn’t really true."
From the Chicago Monitor's Noor Salahuddin:
". . . [A]s an American Muslim and keen observer of international politics, I could not ignore the troubling and reoccurring factual errors about Islam, Muslims, and the Middle East. These manifest in the dialogue and plot, making it difficult to discuss the show without addressing its problematic narrative which required suspension of disbelief about the Muslim community."
From TheWrap's brief interview of ME and US Foreign Policy expert Fawaz Gerges on the matter:
"'There’s a tendency on the part of Hollywood to reduce the humanity of the so-called ‘other,’ whether being the Russians, or being the Chinese, Vietnamese, or now the Iranians,' he said. 'This is the tendency, a very destructive tendency.'"
And here's a bonus Salon article from Laila Al-Arian, who co-authored Collateral Damage: America's War Against Iraqi Civilians.
When I hear a variety of people describing Homeland's negative real-life implications, I'm very very inclined to believe them. And when I see some of the subjects of Homeland successfully subvert them, I'm very very inclined to cheer them on.
posted by Ashen at 9:46 AM on October 15, 2015 [15 favorites]
>It was our one hundred and ninth year in the chocolate factory.
I Have No Mouth And I Must Eat Chocolate by Roallan Ellison-Dahl
posted by Sunburnt at 9:54 AM on October 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
I Have No Mouth And I Must Eat Chocolate by Roallan Ellison-Dahl
posted by Sunburnt at 9:54 AM on October 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
Right: #blacklivesmatter (photos courtesy of the artists)
graffiti artists are already more intersectional than the Homeland staff could ever hope to be. neat. also:
In our initial meeting, we were given a set of images of pro-Assad graffiti- apparently natural in a Syrian refugee camp. Our instructions were: (1) the graffiti has to be apolitical (2) you cannot copy the images because of copyright infringement (3) writing “Mohamed is the greatest, is okay of course”. We would arm ourselves with slogans, with proverbs allowing for critical interpretation, and, if the chance presented itself, blatant criticism directed at the show. And so, it came to be.
wait so the showrunners were envisioning that refugees fleeing a war-torn state would spraypaint pro-Assad sentiments in their European detention camps?
I feel like the Legend of Korra had better representations about refugees than this and that show was set in a completely fictional world with polar bear dogs
posted by runt at 10:02 AM on October 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
graffiti artists are already more intersectional than the Homeland staff could ever hope to be. neat. also:
In our initial meeting, we were given a set of images of pro-Assad graffiti- apparently natural in a Syrian refugee camp. Our instructions were: (1) the graffiti has to be apolitical (2) you cannot copy the images because of copyright infringement (3) writing “Mohamed is the greatest, is okay of course”. We would arm ourselves with slogans, with proverbs allowing for critical interpretation, and, if the chance presented itself, blatant criticism directed at the show. And so, it came to be.
wait so the showrunners were envisioning that refugees fleeing a war-torn state would spraypaint pro-Assad sentiments in their European detention camps?
I feel like the Legend of Korra had better representations about refugees than this and that show was set in a completely fictional world with polar bear dogs
posted by runt at 10:02 AM on October 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
I hear everyone speaking Urdu, not the region’s Pashto.
I heard Kumail Nanjiani, who grew up in Lahore Pakistan but has lived in the US since 18, talking on the Nerdist podcast about playing some super well known video game [GTA?] set there and how everyone was speaking in Arabic.
He was like "I can't believe they spent all this time making sure people's shoelaces moved according to the laws of physics and didn't bother to just Google 'PAKISTAN LANGUAGE' to get that part right."
I always think GOOGLE PAKISTAN LANGUAGE now when I see stuff like this.
posted by zutalors! at 10:33 AM on October 15, 2015 [15 favorites]
I heard Kumail Nanjiani, who grew up in Lahore Pakistan but has lived in the US since 18, talking on the Nerdist podcast about playing some super well known video game [GTA?] set there and how everyone was speaking in Arabic.
He was like "I can't believe they spent all this time making sure people's shoelaces moved according to the laws of physics and didn't bother to just Google 'PAKISTAN LANGUAGE' to get that part right."
I always think GOOGLE PAKISTAN LANGUAGE now when I see stuff like this.
posted by zutalors! at 10:33 AM on October 15, 2015 [15 favorites]
In the DVD commentary for the Simpsons episode where homer eats the fugu (One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish, Blowfish), they discuss the care they took in just going to a damn sushi bar for one episode.
From wiki:
"When the chef of the sushi bar finds out that Homer has been poisoned, he yells at his apprentices in Japanese. The staff wanted the language they spoke to be actual Japanese, so they hired a Japanese actor who translated the lines for them.[2] The episode introduced the character Akira, who has appeared many times later on the show. American actor George Takei provided the voice of Akira."
And that was mid second-season for a low-budget cartoon on a niche network 25 years ago.
The same network, in fact!
posted by lkc at 10:48 AM on October 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
From wiki:
"When the chef of the sushi bar finds out that Homer has been poisoned, he yells at his apprentices in Japanese. The staff wanted the language they spoke to be actual Japanese, so they hired a Japanese actor who translated the lines for them.[2] The episode introduced the character Akira, who has appeared many times later on the show. American actor George Takei provided the voice of Akira."
And that was mid second-season for a low-budget cartoon on a niche network 25 years ago.
The same network, in fact!
posted by lkc at 10:48 AM on October 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
ome super well known video game [GTA?] set there and how everyone was speaking in Arabic.
uh, let's go with Call of Duty: Modern Warfare on this one (ie COD)
posted by runt at 11:32 AM on October 15, 2015
uh, let's go with Call of Duty: Modern Warfare on this one (ie COD)
posted by runt at 11:32 AM on October 15, 2015
yeah, id'ing the video game itself wasn't really my point.
posted by zutalors! at 12:14 PM on October 15, 2015
posted by zutalors! at 12:14 PM on October 15, 2015
That reminds me of Rami Ismail's talk: I Want To Show You Something Annoying (But It Takes Some Explanation).
posted by xqwzts at 12:19 PM on October 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by xqwzts at 12:19 PM on October 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
The same network, in fact!
The same as what? Homeland is on Showtime.
posted by LizBoBiz at 12:25 PM on October 15, 2015
The same as what? Homeland is on Showtime.
posted by LizBoBiz at 12:25 PM on October 15, 2015
Mod note: A few comments deleted - if you've got an alternate theory about this, go ahead and offer it without a huge dollop of sarcasm. And if you think a comment is bad, please flag it and don't immediately reply with your own ironic imitation of the poster's voice.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:46 PM on October 15, 2015
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:46 PM on October 15, 2015
I think w0mbat set us up the bomb for this argument with those first and last lines.
posted by phearlez at 1:22 PM on October 15, 2015
posted by phearlez at 1:22 PM on October 15, 2015
The same as what? Homeland is on Showtime.
Sorry, its produced (in-part) by Fox 21, which has now merged with Fox Tv Studios, which is the same (in-part) production company as what put out the simpsons.
The point, though, was that an up-and-coming show was able to put in more effort for a detail in a single episode 25 years ago.
posted by lkc at 1:32 PM on October 15, 2015
Sorry, its produced (in-part) by Fox 21, which has now merged with Fox Tv Studios, which is the same (in-part) production company as what put out the simpsons.
The point, though, was that an up-and-coming show was able to put in more effort for a detail in a single episode 25 years ago.
posted by lkc at 1:32 PM on October 15, 2015
I love this show. And the thoughts I'm left with are how fucked up the U.S. govt. is, not anything about Islam.
So you think their portrayals of Middle Easterners are accurate?
Never said that. I've never been to the Middle East and have no schema to be able to answer that. I watch shows because the characters and stories are compelling and speak to my humanity, not to villainize an other, feed my bigotry or fuel my hate for Big Media.
For what it's worth, I think their portrayal of the American teenager on Homeland is not entirely accurate. Nothing on TV is accurate enough to satisfy the race/gender/age/religion/country of origin/whatever of whom they portray.
Why are you watching this show if it rubs you so prickly? Change the channel.
This is the same argument about the misrepresentation of representation in the media that has been going on for the decades I have been alive.
Change the channel people.
posted by archimago at 1:45 PM on October 15, 2015
So you think their portrayals of Middle Easterners are accurate?
Never said that. I've never been to the Middle East and have no schema to be able to answer that. I watch shows because the characters and stories are compelling and speak to my humanity, not to villainize an other, feed my bigotry or fuel my hate for Big Media.
For what it's worth, I think their portrayal of the American teenager on Homeland is not entirely accurate. Nothing on TV is accurate enough to satisfy the race/gender/age/religion/country of origin/whatever of whom they portray.
Why are you watching this show if it rubs you so prickly? Change the channel.
This is the same argument about the misrepresentation of representation in the media that has been going on for the decades I have been alive.
Change the channel people.
posted by archimago at 1:45 PM on October 15, 2015
Shows like this do genuine harm in the real world.
Relevant example, particularly since the show's creators include people from 24: This past November, U.S. Army Brigadier General Patrick Finnegan, the dean of the United States Military Academy at West Point, flew to Southern California to meet with the creative team behind “24.” Finnegan, who was accompanied by three of the most experienced military and F.B.I. interrogators in the country, arrived on the set as the crew was filming...Finnegan and the others had come to voice their concern that the show’s central political premise—that the letter of American law must be sacrificed for the country’s security—was having a toxic effect. In their view, the show promoted unethical and illegal behavior and had adversely affected the training and performance of real American soldiers.
Spoiler: the executive producer didn't have it in him to actually go to the meeting. Because when confronted by experts who can show that a TV show hurts America, real patriots run and hide.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:02 PM on October 15, 2015 [24 favorites]
Relevant example, particularly since the show's creators include people from 24: This past November, U.S. Army Brigadier General Patrick Finnegan, the dean of the United States Military Academy at West Point, flew to Southern California to meet with the creative team behind “24.” Finnegan, who was accompanied by three of the most experienced military and F.B.I. interrogators in the country, arrived on the set as the crew was filming...Finnegan and the others had come to voice their concern that the show’s central political premise—that the letter of American law must be sacrificed for the country’s security—was having a toxic effect. In their view, the show promoted unethical and illegal behavior and had adversely affected the training and performance of real American soldiers.
Spoiler: the executive producer didn't have it in him to actually go to the meeting. Because when confronted by experts who can show that a TV show hurts America, real patriots run and hide.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:02 PM on October 15, 2015 [24 favorites]
I heard Kumail Nanjiani, who grew up in Lahore Pakistan but has lived in the US since 18, talking on the Nerdist podcast about playing some super well known video game [GTA?] set there and how everyone was speaking in Arabic.
I had the opposite problem with Spec Ops: The Line. It's set in Dubai, but there was Hindi and Urdu everywhere. There are plenty of desis in Dubai, so that would have been kind of okay if they didn't have Emirati politicians also using Hindi as an official language for announcements.
It soured the game for me a bit, particularly after all I'd heard about it being so thoughtfully and carefully crafted. Never did get around to finishing it - not necessarily for this reason, but it certainly didn't help.
posted by vanar sena at 2:12 PM on October 15, 2015
I had the opposite problem with Spec Ops: The Line. It's set in Dubai, but there was Hindi and Urdu everywhere. There are plenty of desis in Dubai, so that would have been kind of okay if they didn't have Emirati politicians also using Hindi as an official language for announcements.
It soured the game for me a bit, particularly after all I'd heard about it being so thoughtfully and carefully crafted. Never did get around to finishing it - not necessarily for this reason, but it certainly didn't help.
posted by vanar sena at 2:12 PM on October 15, 2015
That's totally unacceptable frankly. That kind of thing should be widely criticized.
posted by zutalors! at 2:15 PM on October 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by zutalors! at 2:15 PM on October 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
"...adversely affected the training and performance of real American soldiers."
It seems very likely to me that 24 also helped to acclimatise US citizens to the fact that their government was engaging in torture and sold them the totally false premise that torturing a captive produces any kind of reliable information. What a revolting thing for any television show to do.
posted by Paul Slade at 2:22 PM on October 15, 2015 [15 favorites]
It seems very likely to me that 24 also helped to acclimatise US citizens to the fact that their government was engaging in torture and sold them the totally false premise that torturing a captive produces any kind of reliable information. What a revolting thing for any television show to do.
posted by Paul Slade at 2:22 PM on October 15, 2015 [15 favorites]
Paul Slade: Pretty much, yeah.
archimago: Can you point out an espionage-ish show that doesn't involve racist tropes and/or normalization of torture? 'cause I'll watch it. Seriously. Even freakin' Agents of SHIELD can't seem to do that. I stopped watching. You're telling me to change the channel, but this shit is on the other channels, too.
And I'm sorry, but when you've got network backing and a budget to make an influential, widely-watched TV show, you really do have a responsibility to think twice about the messages you're putting out with it.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:33 PM on October 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
archimago: Can you point out an espionage-ish show that doesn't involve racist tropes and/or normalization of torture? 'cause I'll watch it. Seriously. Even freakin' Agents of SHIELD can't seem to do that. I stopped watching. You're telling me to change the channel, but this shit is on the other channels, too.
And I'm sorry, but when you've got network backing and a budget to make an influential, widely-watched TV show, you really do have a responsibility to think twice about the messages you're putting out with it.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:33 PM on October 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
24 is one of the worst shows ever to have been on TV. Homeland is definitely racist but more like how most TV (2 Broke Girls or something) is racist. The show's subject is the horrible and useless abuse of power that lies behind US foreign policy.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:40 PM on October 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:40 PM on October 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
It seems like Ganza made Homeland to sort of make up for the awfulness of 24 which is kinda like DW Griffith making up for Birth of A Nation with Intolerance.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:48 PM on October 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:48 PM on October 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
I avoided the series since the start, despite reviews, because I knew that given who the producers were that it was going to be a racist piece of shit. But I was mild amused first season when some apologists (in professional publications, even) were going on about how maybe the guy who converted to Islam wouldn't turn out to be a terrorist after all, and that the genius white analyst would have made a mistake in assuming that being Muslim made you evil. Ha bloody ha like that was ever going to happen on Fox.
posted by tavella at 3:13 PM on October 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by tavella at 3:13 PM on October 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
archimago: Never said that. I've never been to the Middle East and have no schema to be able to answer that. I watch shows because the characters and stories are compelling and speak to my humanity, not to villainize an other, feed my bigotry or fuel my hate for Big Media.
I get where you're coming from on this, and by pointing out that the show is racist I'm not judging you or the others that watch it [I don't think anyone else intended that either]. But to me, the way Arabs, Middle Easterners, Muslims, other are portrayed on Homeland is dehumanizing, villainizing, and bigoted. And while it might not have that effect on you, it surely does on others who watch it and have no other lens through which to view this part of the world, whether they realize it or not.
It plays to ass-backwards stereotypes which are frankly sickening.
This is the same argument about the misrepresentation of representation in the media that has been going on for the decades I have been alive.
And that's because we've been through this before, but somehow the lesson always seems elusive. Saying that bigotry is wrong when applied to black people in movies, doesn't mean it's ok to replace "discriminating against blacks" with "discriminating against latinos/asians/arabs/...". The problem isn't who the racism is aimed it, it's the racism.
posted by xqwzts at 3:42 PM on October 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
I get where you're coming from on this, and by pointing out that the show is racist I'm not judging you or the others that watch it [I don't think anyone else intended that either]. But to me, the way Arabs, Middle Easterners, Muslims, other are portrayed on Homeland is dehumanizing, villainizing, and bigoted. And while it might not have that effect on you, it surely does on others who watch it and have no other lens through which to view this part of the world, whether they realize it or not.
It plays to ass-backwards stereotypes which are frankly sickening.
This is the same argument about the misrepresentation of representation in the media that has been going on for the decades I have been alive.
And that's because we've been through this before, but somehow the lesson always seems elusive. Saying that bigotry is wrong when applied to black people in movies, doesn't mean it's ok to replace "discriminating against blacks" with "discriminating against latinos/asians/arabs/...". The problem isn't who the racism is aimed it, it's the racism.
posted by xqwzts at 3:42 PM on October 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's not just that some representations are not perfect, it's that they are racist. And they become lots less racist when you have diversity in creators/decision makers. Archimago is arguing from a perspective where white people are trying so hard, so very hard, all on their own to get all these others right and are bewildered by complaints.
posted by zutalors! at 4:10 PM on October 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by zutalors! at 4:10 PM on October 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
Homeland certainly has its problems with cultural portrayals (as do almost all shows on TV) but it's no way an apologist for American foreign policy or intelligence overreach. They screw up, they make things worse, they commit abuses which come back to bite them in the ass and cause more deaths than they supposedly prevented.
Yes, it's unrealistic and so on. But it's nothing like 24 which, when it would come on my television, would be met by my best THING impression: IT'S TORTURIN' TIME!
Hell, in the second episode of the season the entire US adventure in Syria was eviscerated with a single line of dialogue.
posted by Justinian at 6:01 PM on October 15, 2015
Yes, it's unrealistic and so on. But it's nothing like 24 which, when it would come on my television, would be met by my best THING impression: IT'S TORTURIN' TIME!
Hell, in the second episode of the season the entire US adventure in Syria was eviscerated with a single line of dialogue.
posted by Justinian at 6:01 PM on October 15, 2015
The new season is about The Traitor Snowden, isn't it?
Not precisely, but it is sort of ripped from the headlines.
posted by homunculus at 8:19 PM on October 15, 2015
Not precisely, but it is sort of ripped from the headlines.
posted by homunculus at 8:19 PM on October 15, 2015
Can you point out an espionage-ish show that doesn't involve racist tropes and/or normalization of torture? '
I can! It's a great show (been called the best representation of spycraft ever shown on television): The Sandbaggers.
posted by el io at 8:59 PM on October 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
I can! It's a great show (been called the best representation of spycraft ever shown on television): The Sandbaggers.
posted by el io at 8:59 PM on October 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
The Sandbaggers is one of the best spy shows that ever was. I guess you could say it has Nationalist tropes, towards Soviets, Americans, and a few other misc nations. Looking to spot Jeff Ross, the CIA Station Chief in London? He's the guy with the McDonalds burger wedded to his hand.
The entire series is on Youtube here.
posted by Sunburnt at 9:24 PM on October 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
The entire series is on Youtube here.
posted by Sunburnt at 9:24 PM on October 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
The graphic on that "Homeland isn't really racist" link is a picture of Claire Danes trying to blend in by wearing black contacts with her hair dyed dark brown, oh my fucking god.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 9:55 PM on October 15, 2015
posted by moonlight on vermont at 9:55 PM on October 15, 2015
She didn't dye her hair to blend in and is regularly seen with her blonde hair and blue eyes in the show as, for example, in this image. There's plenty of stuff to critique in Homeland but that's just weird.
posted by Justinian at 10:17 PM on October 15, 2015
posted by Justinian at 10:17 PM on October 15, 2015
Archimago is arguing from a perspective where white people are trying so hard, so very hard, all on their own to get all these others right and are bewildered by complaints.
Wow. Thanks for putting me in a box to further your argument that we shouldn't put people in boxes.
I'm out. Peace.
posted by archimago at 4:53 AM on October 16, 2015
Wow. Thanks for putting me in a box to further your argument that we shouldn't put people in boxes.
I'm out. Peace.
posted by archimago at 4:53 AM on October 16, 2015
Homeland certainly has its problems with cultural portrayals (as do almost all shows on TV) but it's no way an apologist for American foreign policy or intelligence overreach. They screw up, they make things worse, they commit abuses which come back to bite them in the ass and cause more deaths than they supposedly prevented.
Sometimes it is interesting to tally how much cumulative time a TV show has taken from my life. With Homeland I am now nearing show number 50 - getting on for 40 hours or 13 showings of Hamlet. Such a large committment begs the question "what did I get for all those hours?" - not just in terms of entertainment but also in terms of learning.
Homeland's plots often suffer from "Fridge Logic" - just enough coherance to appear clever at the time - but head to the fridge afterwards for a beer and one is struck by the thought "Hey! wait a minute...". The issue of what the shows teaches falls into the same category: one would assume that, as we follow the characters, to Beirut and Islamabad, the show would tell us something novel about Islamic or Middle Eastern culture. Not something glaringly stereotyped or incorrect - but something true and insightful.
For me it hasn't done so. Awards and critical acclaim are awaiting the writers of Homeland or of future shows that realise this is a rich source for both credability and interesting material.
posted by rongorongo at 7:37 AM on October 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Sometimes it is interesting to tally how much cumulative time a TV show has taken from my life. With Homeland I am now nearing show number 50 - getting on for 40 hours or 13 showings of Hamlet. Such a large committment begs the question "what did I get for all those hours?" - not just in terms of entertainment but also in terms of learning.
Homeland's plots often suffer from "Fridge Logic" - just enough coherance to appear clever at the time - but head to the fridge afterwards for a beer and one is struck by the thought "Hey! wait a minute...". The issue of what the shows teaches falls into the same category: one would assume that, as we follow the characters, to Beirut and Islamabad, the show would tell us something novel about Islamic or Middle Eastern culture. Not something glaringly stereotyped or incorrect - but something true and insightful.
For me it hasn't done so. Awards and critical acclaim are awaiting the writers of Homeland or of future shows that realise this is a rich source for both credability and interesting material.
posted by rongorongo at 7:37 AM on October 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think "well just don't watch!" is reductive and lazy and advocating it as if it solves the problem of racist/exclusionary media that caters to the majority is silly, but I will give Archimago credit for taking hir own advice.
posted by phearlez at 8:13 AM on October 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by phearlez at 8:13 AM on October 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
I was watching one of those "Kids React!" videos and they asked the kids about gay marriage, and they kept referring to songs and movies that had positive portrayals of same sex relationships, love and marriage (not kid focused things). We all pick up things from the culture that influence our worldview, even after we're children.
posted by zutalors! at 9:28 AM on October 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by zutalors! at 9:28 AM on October 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Watching the first season of Homeland I thought it was going to make a magnificent turn where, yes, Brody had converted to Islam when in captivity but wasn't some secret agent, and Carrie was indeed obsessively racist/anti-Muslim and her delusions lead to her becoming a terrorist.
Such a missed chance.
As a non-Muslim who spends plenty of time in Muslim countries, the device of prayer and prayer call as nefarious is a disturbing trend. Anyways, for those arguing the show isn't racist, I'd go ahead and say it problem doesn't matter what you think if you're not part of demographic who is portrayed, villainized, and offended.
posted by iamck at 10:08 AM on October 16, 2015 [10 favorites]
Such a missed chance.
As a non-Muslim who spends plenty of time in Muslim countries, the device of prayer and prayer call as nefarious is a disturbing trend. Anyways, for those arguing the show isn't racist, I'd go ahead and say it problem doesn't matter what you think if you're not part of demographic who is portrayed, villainized, and offended.
posted by iamck at 10:08 AM on October 16, 2015 [10 favorites]
Awards and critical acclaim are awaiting the writers of Homeland
They might even win some Emmys or Golden Globes.
posted by Justinian at 12:29 PM on October 16, 2015
They might even win some Emmys or Golden Globes.
posted by Justinian at 12:29 PM on October 16, 2015
The latest twist in Homeland’s racist plot: the realistic graffiti episode. An elegant stunt, where spray artists tricked the showmakers to broadcast their protest, was art imitating life: Americans in war zones not understanding a word
posted by homunculus at 2:02 PM on October 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 2:02 PM on October 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Can you point out an espionage-ish show that doesn't involve racist tropes and/or normalization of torture?
Spooks seemed to be problematic in the other way; rather than normalising the dehumanisation of the terroristic/communistic Other and/or the regrettable necessity of torturing/killing them for the common good, it seemed to whitewash MI5. The MI5 in Spooks shared only the name with the British government agency; rather than advancing policy outcomes/“national interests” as decided by the deep state, they seemed to be a sort of Justice League staffed by good-looking young idealists. Their enemies tended to overwhelmingly be neo-Nazis, arms smugglers, crooked corporations, the Russian Mafia, and treacherous Americans and vaguely fascistic Israelis; not anybody anyone could remotely claim to be victims of colonialism/capitalism. It was essentially 24 for Guardian readers.
posted by acb at 10:02 AM on October 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
Spooks seemed to be problematic in the other way; rather than normalising the dehumanisation of the terroristic/communistic Other and/or the regrettable necessity of torturing/killing them for the common good, it seemed to whitewash MI5. The MI5 in Spooks shared only the name with the British government agency; rather than advancing policy outcomes/“national interests” as decided by the deep state, they seemed to be a sort of Justice League staffed by good-looking young idealists. Their enemies tended to overwhelmingly be neo-Nazis, arms smugglers, crooked corporations, the Russian Mafia, and treacherous Americans and vaguely fascistic Israelis; not anybody anyone could remotely claim to be victims of colonialism/capitalism. It was essentially 24 for Guardian readers.
posted by acb at 10:02 AM on October 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
> It was essentially 24 for Guardian readers.
Bons mots! Never trust a show where they coerce suspects with gunplay and shoot to kill in public gunfights, but they always conspicuously put their seatbelts on before getting into a car chase.
Entertainly as hell, though. Bit of a character turnover problem, but I think that's the nature of beeb television; they order TV differently than American TV networks, and it appears to mean they don't always get commitments from the cast. Thus, a rising star like Keeley Hawes couldn't stay in the show.
Also, that show had a particularly brutal scene in the second episode (wiki with spoiler), one which set a record for complaints from viewers even for a post-watershed show, and a hair-tearing cliffhanger at the end of series 1 which will make you throw stuff at your TV, or just throw your TV, when the resolution is revealed in series 2.
posted by Sunburnt at 5:07 PM on October 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Bons mots! Never trust a show where they coerce suspects with gunplay and shoot to kill in public gunfights, but they always conspicuously put their seatbelts on before getting into a car chase.
Entertainly as hell, though. Bit of a character turnover problem, but I think that's the nature of beeb television; they order TV differently than American TV networks, and it appears to mean they don't always get commitments from the cast. Thus, a rising star like Keeley Hawes couldn't stay in the show.
Also, that show had a particularly brutal scene in the second episode (wiki with spoiler), one which set a record for complaints from viewers even for a post-watershed show, and a hair-tearing cliffhanger at the end of series 1 which will make you throw stuff at your TV, or just throw your TV, when the resolution is revealed in series 2.
posted by Sunburnt at 5:07 PM on October 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
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posted by straight at 8:12 PM on October 14, 2015 [23 favorites]