The school-to-prison pipeline, explained
October 27, 2015 10:23 AM Subscribe
"When a student at Spring Valley High School, South Carolina captured a cellphone video of a police officer flipping over a student and her desk, then throwing the student across the room, the video quickly got national attention: people were alarmed that a police officer in a school would do that to a teenager who didn't pose a threat."
After the stories that made news over the past year, people were alarmed at this???
Yes, and no. I mean, it's alarming to see that sort of violence in a classroom, while the teacher watches.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:30 AM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yes, and no. I mean, it's alarming to see that sort of violence in a classroom, while the teacher watches.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:30 AM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
On top of this, the girl who recorded the video was arrested for "disturbing school".
posted by beagle at 10:30 AM on October 27, 2015 [58 favorites]
posted by beagle at 10:30 AM on October 27, 2015 [58 favorites]
And, a previous incident in which the same officer pepper-sprayed a black army medic for calling him "dude."
posted by beagle at 10:33 AM on October 27, 2015 [36 favorites]
posted by beagle at 10:33 AM on October 27, 2015 [36 favorites]
A friend of family taught at a school in Watts (Locke) that had an actual problem with violent kids. The school was the last stop for unruly kids in the LAUSD system. I don't think teachers were actually getting beat up, but kids would physically block the doors if a fight broke out to make sure no one could come in break it up.
Eventually some gov agency (I seem to remember the friend mentioning DOJ) stepped in to get every calmed down. An instead of sending in a bunch of jackasses to pile drive every student who sassed the adults, a bunch of 6'5" ripped dudes in government windbreakers stood in the hallways with their arms crossed, daring anyone to start some shit. I'm sure there were de-escalation trainings and whatnot, but ripped dudes in hallways is what turned the tide.
Eventually things calmed down, and it didn't take any violent jackass cops to fix it.
posted by sideshow at 10:34 AM on October 27, 2015 [21 favorites]
Eventually some gov agency (I seem to remember the friend mentioning DOJ) stepped in to get every calmed down. An instead of sending in a bunch of jackasses to pile drive every student who sassed the adults, a bunch of 6'5" ripped dudes in government windbreakers stood in the hallways with their arms crossed, daring anyone to start some shit. I'm sure there were de-escalation trainings and whatnot, but ripped dudes in hallways is what turned the tide.
Eventually things calmed down, and it didn't take any violent jackass cops to fix it.
posted by sideshow at 10:34 AM on October 27, 2015 [21 favorites]
Why the fuck are cops any part of school in the US? The fuck is going on over there?
posted by Jimbob at 10:37 AM on October 27, 2015 [46 favorites]
posted by Jimbob at 10:37 AM on October 27, 2015 [46 favorites]
Why the fuck are cops any part of school in the US? The fuck is going on over there?
The FPP title says it all.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:41 AM on October 27, 2015 [25 favorites]
The FPP title says it all.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:41 AM on October 27, 2015 [25 favorites]
Half of me is heartened that the issue of police brutality seems to have sprung into the national consciousness so quickly over the last year and a half. The other half of me is frustrated at how sharply the lines are drawn in this debate, and how long it may take for people to realize just how big of a problem we have.
It was remarkable to me to see how quickly the defenders of the Confederate battle flag capitulated after the Charleston shooting precisely because that sort of thing is so rare. The murder of George Tiller didn't move the needle in the abortion debate. Every so often we hear about evidence that may exonerate an already-executed man, but those incidents don't move the needle in the capital punishment debate.
I do think that the tide is turning against unchecked police departments, but it may take a decade or two before we can know for sure. And in the meantime, incidents like these will only get harder to watch.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:47 AM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
It was remarkable to me to see how quickly the defenders of the Confederate battle flag capitulated after the Charleston shooting precisely because that sort of thing is so rare. The murder of George Tiller didn't move the needle in the abortion debate. Every so often we hear about evidence that may exonerate an already-executed man, but those incidents don't move the needle in the capital punishment debate.
I do think that the tide is turning against unchecked police departments, but it may take a decade or two before we can know for sure. And in the meantime, incidents like these will only get harder to watch.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:47 AM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
Why the fuck are cops any part of school in the US?
Well, to make students accustomed to authoritarianism at a young age, of course.
posted by entropicamericana at 10:51 AM on October 27, 2015 [63 favorites]
Well, to make students accustomed to authoritarianism at a young age, of course.
posted by entropicamericana at 10:51 AM on October 27, 2015 [63 favorites]
we got "resource officers" in our tiny rural school in 93? 94? this was long after the inner city schools had metal detectors. cops in schools are not new. it is still entirely fucked up.
posted by nadawi at 10:52 AM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 10:52 AM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
South Carolina's statute "Disturbing Schools" makes it lawful for the police to arrest young people for basically anything that could be categorized as disrupting the school environment. I know there have been attempts to amend this law--but those amendments only made it more expansive and I don't know if they were successful (I'm not in SC; I don't practice school law nor juvenile law; the issues are tangential to my work, but i have many colleagues who work in juvenile and school law, but none in SC)
In my opinion, this is a very bad law. It's vague; it can be read to criminalize a wide range of behaviors which should not be criminalized. It gives municipal police departments too much authority in the schools. There's quite a bit of litigation in South Carolina where the courts decide it's not vague (which I disagree with) nor an impediment to 1st Amendment rights (which I feel a little more conflict over). It's been a law there for a while.
I suspect that, all over the US, it is more common to have more police officers in schools than guidance counselors and other support professionals. As many have noted, this is the root of the school to prison pipeline problem.
posted by crush-onastick at 10:54 AM on October 27, 2015 [21 favorites]
In my opinion, this is a very bad law. It's vague; it can be read to criminalize a wide range of behaviors which should not be criminalized. It gives municipal police departments too much authority in the schools. There's quite a bit of litigation in South Carolina where the courts decide it's not vague (which I disagree with) nor an impediment to 1st Amendment rights (which I feel a little more conflict over). It's been a law there for a while.
I suspect that, all over the US, it is more common to have more police officers in schools than guidance counselors and other support professionals. As many have noted, this is the root of the school to prison pipeline problem.
posted by crush-onastick at 10:54 AM on October 27, 2015 [21 favorites]
npr on a study about how black girls are being pushed out of school and a link to the [pdf] study.
posted by nadawi at 10:56 AM on October 27, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 10:56 AM on October 27, 2015 [19 favorites]
After the stories that made news over the past year, people were alarmed at this???
Yes, and no. I mean, it's alarming to see that sort of violence in a classroom, while the teacher watches.
its neither a surprise, nor alarming. When this popped up in my African timeline, my face just curled in disgust. Oh god, not again. when is that place going to clean up its shit already?
posted by infini at 10:56 AM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yes, and no. I mean, it's alarming to see that sort of violence in a classroom, while the teacher watches.
its neither a surprise, nor alarming. When this popped up in my African timeline, my face just curled in disgust. Oh god, not again. when is that place going to clean up its shit already?
posted by infini at 10:56 AM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
I wonder if the lobbyists for for-profit prisons are the same people who campaign against education reform...
posted by JohnFromGR at 10:56 AM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by JohnFromGR at 10:56 AM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
Well now we know why this kind of thing happens.
1. Police abuse the power they're given.
2. Citizens bury their heads in the sand.
School officers are not new, but this kind of conduct is getting worse across the board. Time to stop hiring combat veterans whose training in and experience of carrying out military occupation will never be fully displaced by whatever policing skills they're taught. Or their disdain for the civilians they are now supposed to serve and protect.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:59 AM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
1. Police abuse the power they're given.
2. Citizens bury their heads in the sand.
School officers are not new, but this kind of conduct is getting worse across the board. Time to stop hiring combat veterans whose training in and experience of carrying out military occupation will never be fully displaced by whatever policing skills they're taught. Or their disdain for the civilians they are now supposed to serve and protect.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:59 AM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
What shucks me after a second viewing of this video: watch the reaction of the rest of the room -- there isn't one. Either the students are terrified of responding or this is a normal, expected part of their school day.
posted by nathan_teske at 11:00 AM on October 27, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by nathan_teske at 11:00 AM on October 27, 2015 [16 favorites]
In my opinion, this is a very bad law. It's vague; it can be read to criminalize a wide range of behaviors which should not be criminalized. I
Thank you for finding the actual statute! I was curious about it. I agree that it's vague and the purpose seems largely to criminalize normal (if not ideal) classroom behavior. If someone was behaving in a classroom in a way that met the standards for vanilla disturbing the peace, then I can see wanting (as a last resort) to use law enforcement as a tool, but for normal classroom discipline, which is what you can easily cover with "interfere with or to disturb" in any way it seems inappropriate.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:00 AM on October 27, 2015
Thank you for finding the actual statute! I was curious about it. I agree that it's vague and the purpose seems largely to criminalize normal (if not ideal) classroom behavior. If someone was behaving in a classroom in a way that met the standards for vanilla disturbing the peace, then I can see wanting (as a last resort) to use law enforcement as a tool, but for normal classroom discipline, which is what you can easily cover with "interfere with or to disturb" in any way it seems inappropriate.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:00 AM on October 27, 2015
I truly don't get why people respond to reports of horrible things by saying "why is anyone surprised?"
Who the fuck said they were surprised? Should we stop giving a shit because this is no longer surprising? Seems to me that's why we need to give MORE of a shit.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:02 AM on October 27, 2015 [139 favorites]
Who the fuck said they were surprised? Should we stop giving a shit because this is no longer surprising? Seems to me that's why we need to give MORE of a shit.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:02 AM on October 27, 2015 [139 favorites]
Time to stop hiring combat veterans whose training in and experience of carrying out military occupation will never fully displace whatever policing skills they're taught. Or their disdain for the civilians they are now supposed to serve and protect.
The military is arguably better than a lot of US police departments on these measures.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:02 AM on October 27, 2015 [21 favorites]
The military is arguably better than a lot of US police departments on these measures.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:02 AM on October 27, 2015 [21 favorites]
nathan_teske, I don't think the video tells the whole story, though. As mentioned above, another girl was arrested for defending the first young woman.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:02 AM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:02 AM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Why the fuck are cops any part of school in the US?
Our school got "resource officers" (dedicated police) after the Newtown shootings.
posted by anastasiav at 11:04 AM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
Our school got "resource officers" (dedicated police) after the Newtown shootings.
posted by anastasiav at 11:04 AM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
Half of me is heartened that the issue of police brutality seems to have sprung into the national consciousness so quickly over the last year and a half. The other half of me is frustrated at how sharply the lines are drawn in this debate, and how long it may take for people to realize just how big of a problem we have.
It's the ubiquity of cell phone video. One of the articles I read on this sorry incident said that the officer involved had been violent with children several times before. (Charles Pierce wonders if steroid use might be a factor.)
It's just this time, there's incontrovertible video, not simply a verbal description that can and will be dismissed by the authorities, the press and the privileged.
posted by Gelatin at 11:04 AM on October 27, 2015 [22 favorites]
It's the ubiquity of cell phone video. One of the articles I read on this sorry incident said that the officer involved had been violent with children several times before. (Charles Pierce wonders if steroid use might be a factor.)
It's just this time, there's incontrovertible video, not simply a verbal description that can and will be dismissed by the authorities, the press and the privileged.
posted by Gelatin at 11:04 AM on October 27, 2015 [22 favorites]
As mentioned above, another girl was arrested for defending the first young woman.
Yeah, that one young woman got upset, crying and yelling at the officer. He arrested her for school disturbance and she was released the next day on $1000 bond. The rest of the students clearly passed their standardized testing on "Good Citizenship While Officers Are Enforcing Their Law."
The girl who failed that test has a good mom: "But looking at the video, who was really disturbing schools? Was it my daughter or the officer who came in to the classroom and did that to the young girl?"
posted by carsonb at 11:07 AM on October 27, 2015 [32 favorites]
Yeah, that one young woman got upset, crying and yelling at the officer. He arrested her for school disturbance and she was released the next day on $1000 bond. The rest of the students clearly passed their standardized testing on "Good Citizenship While Officers Are Enforcing Their Law."
The girl who failed that test has a good mom: "But looking at the video, who was really disturbing schools? Was it my daughter or the officer who came in to the classroom and did that to the young girl?"
posted by carsonb at 11:07 AM on October 27, 2015 [32 favorites]
Aside from this OP and video, people have brought up states' disruptive student laws. Many states have those laws. It's hard to understand them or their necessity until you've been a student at a school with a lot of asshole students or a teacher at one of those schools.
Point blank, students have a right to learn without assholes interfering in class repeatedly, and teachers have a right to teach those students without assholes preventing teaching. Your right to be a disruptive asshole--no matter how young or old you are--ends where other students' and teachers' rights begin.
posted by resurrexit at 11:08 AM on October 27, 2015 [9 favorites]
Point blank, students have a right to learn without assholes interfering in class repeatedly, and teachers have a right to teach those students without assholes preventing teaching. Your right to be a disruptive asshole--no matter how young or old you are--ends where other students' and teachers' rights begin.
posted by resurrexit at 11:08 AM on October 27, 2015 [9 favorites]
This is obviously outrageous, but I think we could back off on the implicit criticism of a room full of teenagers who didn't try to fight a police officer.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:09 AM on October 27, 2015 [118 favorites]
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:09 AM on October 27, 2015 [118 favorites]
Point blank, students have a right to learn without assholes interfering in class repeatedly, and teachers have a right to teach those students without assholes preventing teaching. Your right to be a disruptive asshole--no matter how young or old you are--ends where other students' and teachers' rights begin.
That's fine, but I'm not sure the punishment for being disruptive or an asshole (neither which necessarily seems to be the case here. I believe the girl refused to put her phone away initially) is assault.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:12 AM on October 27, 2015 [17 favorites]
That's fine, but I'm not sure the punishment for being disruptive or an asshole (neither which necessarily seems to be the case here. I believe the girl refused to put her phone away initially) is assault.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:12 AM on October 27, 2015 [17 favorites]
The military is arguably better than a lot of US police departments on these measures
The problem is not with the way the military does policing where it has that responsibility, with its different command structures, rules of engagement, environments and etc. The problem is the way former soldiers behave when they transfer their training to police departments and operate the same way at home, amongst their fellow citizens.
(It's also worth noting that when the military does screw up in this regard, the price is pays in restitution is usually astonishingly low and the incidents are largely unreported in US and global media.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:12 AM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
The problem is not with the way the military does policing where it has that responsibility, with its different command structures, rules of engagement, environments and etc. The problem is the way former soldiers behave when they transfer their training to police departments and operate the same way at home, amongst their fellow citizens.
(It's also worth noting that when the military does screw up in this regard, the price is pays in restitution is usually astonishingly low and the incidents are largely unreported in US and global media.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:12 AM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
Point blank, students have a right to learn without assholes interfering in class repeatedly, and teachers have a right to teach those students without assholes preventing teaching. Your right to be a disruptive asshole--no matter how young or old you are--ends where other students' and teachers' rights begin.
Sure, whatever, but a specific law written explicitly to allow police officers to arrest kids for being assholes in schools is not simply unnecessary and bad law, it's bad policy and it's a disgusting breech of the social contract.
posted by crush-onastick at 11:13 AM on October 27, 2015 [45 favorites]
Sure, whatever, but a specific law written explicitly to allow police officers to arrest kids for being assholes in schools is not simply unnecessary and bad law, it's bad policy and it's a disgusting breech of the social contract.
posted by crush-onastick at 11:13 AM on October 27, 2015 [45 favorites]
The girl was new to the class and school.
None of the other students knew what caused the officer to flip out.
Most of the kids seems to be in shock until it was over.
posted by ShawnStruck at 11:16 AM on October 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
None of the other students knew what caused the officer to flip out.
Most of the kids seems to be in shock until it was over.
posted by ShawnStruck at 11:16 AM on October 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments deleted. Seriously, "the cop had no choice" isn't going to work here.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 11:16 AM on October 27, 2015 [40 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 11:16 AM on October 27, 2015 [40 favorites]
This is obviously outrageous, but I think we could back off on the implicit criticism of a room full of teenagers who didn't try to fight a police officer.
This. Also, I understand why the teacher, a black man, didn't protest as well. That SRO was so out of control that I'm sure he felt his life literally would have been at risk if he had dared open his mouth. But god, can you imagine what the students in that room must have been thinking? No one, not their teacher, not a single adult, was standing up for them. They were totally alone. I'm crying at my desk just thinking about this.
posted by longdaysjourney at 11:17 AM on October 27, 2015 [31 favorites]
This. Also, I understand why the teacher, a black man, didn't protest as well. That SRO was so out of control that I'm sure he felt his life literally would have been at risk if he had dared open his mouth. But god, can you imagine what the students in that room must have been thinking? No one, not their teacher, not a single adult, was standing up for them. They were totally alone. I'm crying at my desk just thinking about this.
posted by longdaysjourney at 11:17 AM on October 27, 2015 [31 favorites]
Our school got "resource officers" (dedicated police) after the Newtown shootings.
In our rural town, a police car watches us beside the cornfields as we drop off our kids. I am pretty certain it is to reassure us in the wake of the Newtown shootings, but all it does is give me the absolute creeps and mentally rehearse the moment when I figure out how to tell my daughter that the police should not be trusted.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:17 AM on October 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
In our rural town, a police car watches us beside the cornfields as we drop off our kids. I am pretty certain it is to reassure us in the wake of the Newtown shootings, but all it does is give me the absolute creeps and mentally rehearse the moment when I figure out how to tell my daughter that the police should not be trusted.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:17 AM on October 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
Mod note: One comment deleted. Gungho, leave this thread.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 11:19 AM on October 27, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 11:19 AM on October 27, 2015 [14 favorites]
> students have a right to learn without assholes interfering in class repeatedly, and teachers have a right to teach those students without assholes preventing teaching
And all students have a right to an education, including "assholes." The school district (hell, the country) needs to put resources into making sure that those kids have the support they need to get the education that they're entitled too. Yes, even the unpleasant children.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:19 AM on October 27, 2015 [51 favorites]
And all students have a right to an education, including "assholes." The school district (hell, the country) needs to put resources into making sure that those kids have the support they need to get the education that they're entitled too. Yes, even the unpleasant children.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:19 AM on October 27, 2015 [51 favorites]
On CNN today, a representative from the national organization of resource officers said that South Carolina doesn't allow their organization to train the officers in their state. They prefer to do it themselves. Obviously, this is working out exceptionally well, along with the "we can arrest you for being 'disruptive' (without any real definition of 'disruptive') at any time" law.
posted by xingcat at 11:20 AM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by xingcat at 11:20 AM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
He piledrivered her and then flung her across the room like a ragdoll. She may have a concussion or worse.
I don't care how 'disruptive' she was -- and initial reports suggest she wasn't. School is a more-or-less safe space for testing authority. I'm the person I am now - independent, questioning, fiercely just - because I was given a certain measure of freedom in pushing back and being disruptive in school. That's what smart, self-aware kids inevitably do. You deal with it reasonably, gently, and with understanding that these are kids and this is perfectly natural.
Unless you have utter disgust for their very existence, and a belief that they will never amount to shit. Then... I guess you treat them like this.
posted by naju at 11:21 AM on October 27, 2015 [95 favorites]
I don't care how 'disruptive' she was -- and initial reports suggest she wasn't. School is a more-or-less safe space for testing authority. I'm the person I am now - independent, questioning, fiercely just - because I was given a certain measure of freedom in pushing back and being disruptive in school. That's what smart, self-aware kids inevitably do. You deal with it reasonably, gently, and with understanding that these are kids and this is perfectly natural.
Unless you have utter disgust for their very existence, and a belief that they will never amount to shit. Then... I guess you treat them like this.
posted by naju at 11:21 AM on October 27, 2015 [95 favorites]
I don't want to be cynical, or to suggest that inaction is an acceptable response. But this is not the system failing. This is what the system, especially in South Carolina, was built for.
posted by DGStieber at 11:22 AM on October 27, 2015 [21 favorites]
posted by DGStieber at 11:22 AM on October 27, 2015 [21 favorites]
Yes, even the unpleasant children.
Especially the unpleasant children, please. Let's try helping those who need it for once. Maybe that'll work.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:22 AM on October 27, 2015 [30 favorites]
Especially the unpleasant children, please. Let's try helping those who need it for once. Maybe that'll work.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:22 AM on October 27, 2015 [30 favorites]
students have a right to learn without assholes interfering in class repeatedly, and teachers have a right to teach those students without assholes preventing teaching
We don't know what happened, so let's not assume the girl was so disruptive that WHAT ELSE COULD BE DONE.
From what I read, based on the testimony of the kid who filmed it, her cell phone went off. Teacher demanded it, then principal demanded it, then cops freaked out. Seems like the disruption was a constant series of escalations taken by teachers and police to a minor offense, so if kids have a right to be free of anything, maybe they have a right to be free of professionals who just can't deal at all with having their authority not immediately capitulated to and make that the subject of the class.
posted by maxsparber at 11:23 AM on October 27, 2015 [40 favorites]
We don't know what happened, so let's not assume the girl was so disruptive that WHAT ELSE COULD BE DONE.
From what I read, based on the testimony of the kid who filmed it, her cell phone went off. Teacher demanded it, then principal demanded it, then cops freaked out. Seems like the disruption was a constant series of escalations taken by teachers and police to a minor offense, so if kids have a right to be free of anything, maybe they have a right to be free of professionals who just can't deal at all with having their authority not immediately capitulated to and make that the subject of the class.
posted by maxsparber at 11:23 AM on October 27, 2015 [40 favorites]
Your right to be a disruptive asshole--no matter how young or old you are--ends where other students' and teachers' rights begin.
A school officer that can't control a disruptive student without resorting to intimidation and violence is both a failure at the job and does not belong in a role that frames them as some kind of social exemplar.
That this guy was also the football strength coach is just fucking perfect.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:26 AM on October 27, 2015 [55 favorites]
A school officer that can't control a disruptive student without resorting to intimidation and violence is both a failure at the job and does not belong in a role that frames them as some kind of social exemplar.
That this guy was also the football strength coach is just fucking perfect.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:26 AM on October 27, 2015 [55 favorites]
The video is insane. The students look terrified.
posted by zutalors! at 11:28 AM on October 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by zutalors! at 11:28 AM on October 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
And yeah I'm alarmed at seeing a child getting beat up on video even if it's like the eleventieth time this year.
posted by zutalors! at 11:29 AM on October 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by zutalors! at 11:29 AM on October 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
This steroid fueled jackbooted thug should be in jail already and the fact he isn't only shows that our overtrust in the ability of our nation's police to act like they're not above the law is still grossly unbalanced, as is the justice served to those who commit obvious crimes in the name of law and order.
I would bet dollars to donuts that without this video, solely on the strength of his word versus that of a classroom full of students, this creep would have gotten away with this violent assault on a student without so much as a slap on the wrist. Which only makes one wonder how commonly these so-called "resource officers" did, and do, get away with it.
posted by Gelatin at 11:30 AM on October 27, 2015 [18 favorites]
I would bet dollars to donuts that without this video, solely on the strength of his word versus that of a classroom full of students, this creep would have gotten away with this violent assault on a student without so much as a slap on the wrist. Which only makes one wonder how commonly these so-called "resource officers" did, and do, get away with it.
posted by Gelatin at 11:30 AM on October 27, 2015 [18 favorites]
You can't force people to pay attention. If she was being quiet and looking at her phone who gives a fuck?
Having been a high school teacher myself, I give a fuck. Students disrupting the class with their cell phones is a huge pain in the ass.
The way this happened is obviously wrong on so many levels and the student did NOT deserve this in any way. But disrupting the class is still a huge pain for teachers and students trying to learn.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 11:32 AM on October 27, 2015 [26 favorites]
Having been a high school teacher myself, I give a fuck. Students disrupting the class with their cell phones is a huge pain in the ass.
The way this happened is obviously wrong on so many levels and the student did NOT deserve this in any way. But disrupting the class is still a huge pain for teachers and students trying to learn.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 11:32 AM on October 27, 2015 [26 favorites]
I wonder if the lobbyists for for-profit prisons are the same people who campaign against education reform...
And how much of an intersection there is with the people who campaign for harsher anti-immigration laws...
posted by fuse theorem at 11:33 AM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
And how much of an intersection there is with the people who campaign for harsher anti-immigration laws...
posted by fuse theorem at 11:33 AM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile, the Director of the FBI claims scrutiny of police is causing higher crime rates in big cities. I shit thee not.
posted by valkane at 11:34 AM on October 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by valkane at 11:34 AM on October 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
> Your right to be a disruptive asshole--no matter how young or old you are--ends where other students' and teachers' rights begin
Those are actual rights, as in civil rights laws, and that's not how they work.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:35 AM on October 27, 2015 [23 favorites]
Those are actual rights, as in civil rights laws, and that's not how they work.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:35 AM on October 27, 2015 [23 favorites]
just because disruption is a problem doesn't mean it should be criminalized. that's one of the big glaring problems which leads to the school to prison pipeline (especially with how racial inequalities are seen at every single step of that pipeline).
posted by nadawi at 11:35 AM on October 27, 2015 [57 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 11:35 AM on October 27, 2015 [57 favorites]
without this video, ... this creep would have gotten away with this violent assault
Absolutely. Funny how now that everyone - including kids - suddenly has video cameras with them all the time, we're seeing evidence that widespread abuse of authority is happening.
posted by rmd1023 at 11:35 AM on October 27, 2015 [20 favorites]
Absolutely. Funny how now that everyone - including kids - suddenly has video cameras with them all the time, we're seeing evidence that widespread abuse of authority is happening.
posted by rmd1023 at 11:35 AM on October 27, 2015 [20 favorites]
and funny how the cellphone was the thing at issue here - can't let those kids have cameras to record the abuse they receive...
posted by nadawi at 11:36 AM on October 27, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 11:36 AM on October 27, 2015 [14 favorites]
Meanwhile, the Director of the FBI claims scrutiny of police is causing higher crime rates in big cities. I shit thee not.
There was an interview about this on (SoCal?) public radio yesterday and, I shit you not, the interviewee brought on to represent the police union's views basically said that body cams are good but civilian cell phone video is bad because police will be 'less proactive.' How fucking stupid do they think we are? Even better, the example given was basically doing less stop-and-frisk based on officers' intuitive suspicions, which was presented as directly leading to more violent crime.
Sorry, but the probability of bigotry significantly outstrips that of clairvoyance.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:37 AM on October 27, 2015 [10 favorites]
There was an interview about this on (SoCal?) public radio yesterday and, I shit you not, the interviewee brought on to represent the police union's views basically said that body cams are good but civilian cell phone video is bad because police will be 'less proactive.' How fucking stupid do they think we are? Even better, the example given was basically doing less stop-and-frisk based on officers' intuitive suspicions, which was presented as directly leading to more violent crime.
Sorry, but the probability of bigotry significantly outstrips that of clairvoyance.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:37 AM on October 27, 2015 [10 favorites]
I don't want to be cynical, or to suggest that inaction is an acceptable response. But this is not the system failing. This is what the system, especially in South Carolina, was built for.
My last comment was deleted. I will try to be a little less vehement and stompy on this one, where I say: I don't think the above comment is true.
I don't think the white people of South Carolina, as a whole, actually understand the implications of the systems they build. If they did, they would view this video with relish, seeing it as a cardinal achievement in a racist system: White cop beats up black kid. They would take pride in the system working as planned.
But that doesn't seem to be what's happening. Instead, you get one of two reactions, much like with the Emanuel shooting. You get either shock and disgust--which is the good, moral and proper response to something like this--or you get the tepid defense, much like we are seeing in some of the more ethically disturbing responses here. You get victim blaming--"she must have deserved it"--which is so clearly wrong, so clearly immoral, that you see instantly the defensive posture it emerges from: The white viewer realizes something is wrong, but has to try to explain it away, make it less horrible, make it fit into a worldview where white people don't do bad things.
That defensive posture is why we must never ever ever stop shoving the evidence of this brutality into people's faces. We must never, not for one single second, let up. Every instance of brutality must be highlighted, until the white populace as a whole understands and accepts that saying "she deserved it" or "maybe he was selling drugs" or "maybe they were wearing scary hoodies" or whatever bullshit they're pulling for the latest racial tragedy, any statement like that, makes them complicit, makes them an accomplice, means they are encouraging assault and murder.
Because I don't think they--we, I should include myself, I'm a white South Carolinian--I don't think we fathom the scale of what's going on here. We can be cynical and say that this is what the system was built for, but I don't think that's honest, and I don't think it would be the honest opinion of anyone who backed down from their racially defensive posture. I think they honestly don't get what they've built. I also don't think that they care. But care can be encouraged, by showing these examples, by not hiding them, by repeatedly drawing the connections between white fear and policy brutality.
I don't have a lot of hope for it. I have been scared to even read much coverage about this story, certainly nothing on Facebook where I might see commentary from my neighbors. But eventually, something has to give here. How many beatings, arrests, shootings, church burnings, is it going to have to take, before white people realize there's a problem...and they're it?
posted by mittens at 11:41 AM on October 27, 2015 [80 favorites]
My last comment was deleted. I will try to be a little less vehement and stompy on this one, where I say: I don't think the above comment is true.
I don't think the white people of South Carolina, as a whole, actually understand the implications of the systems they build. If they did, they would view this video with relish, seeing it as a cardinal achievement in a racist system: White cop beats up black kid. They would take pride in the system working as planned.
But that doesn't seem to be what's happening. Instead, you get one of two reactions, much like with the Emanuel shooting. You get either shock and disgust--which is the good, moral and proper response to something like this--or you get the tepid defense, much like we are seeing in some of the more ethically disturbing responses here. You get victim blaming--"she must have deserved it"--which is so clearly wrong, so clearly immoral, that you see instantly the defensive posture it emerges from: The white viewer realizes something is wrong, but has to try to explain it away, make it less horrible, make it fit into a worldview where white people don't do bad things.
That defensive posture is why we must never ever ever stop shoving the evidence of this brutality into people's faces. We must never, not for one single second, let up. Every instance of brutality must be highlighted, until the white populace as a whole understands and accepts that saying "she deserved it" or "maybe he was selling drugs" or "maybe they were wearing scary hoodies" or whatever bullshit they're pulling for the latest racial tragedy, any statement like that, makes them complicit, makes them an accomplice, means they are encouraging assault and murder.
Because I don't think they--we, I should include myself, I'm a white South Carolinian--I don't think we fathom the scale of what's going on here. We can be cynical and say that this is what the system was built for, but I don't think that's honest, and I don't think it would be the honest opinion of anyone who backed down from their racially defensive posture. I think they honestly don't get what they've built. I also don't think that they care. But care can be encouraged, by showing these examples, by not hiding them, by repeatedly drawing the connections between white fear and policy brutality.
I don't have a lot of hope for it. I have been scared to even read much coverage about this story, certainly nothing on Facebook where I might see commentary from my neighbors. But eventually, something has to give here. How many beatings, arrests, shootings, church burnings, is it going to have to take, before white people realize there's a problem...and they're it?
posted by mittens at 11:41 AM on October 27, 2015 [80 favorites]
more on the pipeline -
Wisconsin ranked No. 1 by suspending 34 percent of all enrolled black students in a single year
posted by nadawi at 11:41 AM on October 27, 2015 [32 favorites]
Wisconsin ranked No. 1 by suspending 34 percent of all enrolled black students in a single year
posted by nadawi at 11:41 AM on October 27, 2015 [32 favorites]
nathan_teske: "What shucks me after a second viewing of this video: watch the reaction of the rest of the room -- there isn't one. Either the students are terrified of responding or this is a normal, expected part of their school day."
Well the student starting to film before the spazz out by the officer kind of points to this being at least a not uncommon event.
sio42: "If she was being quiet and looking at her phone who gives a fuck? "
Teachers do because a) they are being evaluated on how their students are doing and b) because invariably the student not paying attention will ask questions that were covered when they weren't paying attention.
posted by Mitheral at 11:42 AM on October 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
Well the student starting to film before the spazz out by the officer kind of points to this being at least a not uncommon event.
sio42: "If she was being quiet and looking at her phone who gives a fuck? "
Teachers do because a) they are being evaluated on how their students are doing and b) because invariably the student not paying attention will ask questions that were covered when they weren't paying attention.
posted by Mitheral at 11:42 AM on October 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
Sorry I wasn't meaning the activity was disruptive; just that teachers are going to care.
posted by Mitheral at 11:44 AM on October 27, 2015
posted by Mitheral at 11:44 AM on October 27, 2015
Meanwhile, the Director of the FBI claims scrutiny of police is causing higher crime rates in big cities.
...while admitting that no, there isn't any actual evidence of causation (and in fact, crime rates nationwide continue to drop).
posted by Gelatin at 11:44 AM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
...while admitting that no, there isn't any actual evidence of causation (and in fact, crime rates nationwide continue to drop).
posted by Gelatin at 11:44 AM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
There's probably not a lot of learning going on in an environment where a police officer is routinely brutalizing students, so I feel like a girl looking at her phone instead of learning is just coping with the apparent chaos.
posted by zutalors! at 11:45 AM on October 27, 2015 [30 favorites]
posted by zutalors! at 11:45 AM on October 27, 2015 [30 favorites]
I watch videos like this, and listen to the commentary about them (don't ever read the comments), and I despair. I simply despair. I have a kid who will be entering public school in a few years. Nothing I've seen in the past decade has done anything to dissuade me from the idea that I'm morally obligated to send her to school wearing a hidden camera which uploads video in realtime. Not for her own sake (though it might come in handy if she turns out to be half the petulant jackass her father was), because she's white. But because this sort of thing is quickly becoming the new normal, and if the police union has an embolism every time someone suggests mandatory body cameras, then it'll have to be the rest of us doing the filming.
posted by Mayor West at 11:45 AM on October 27, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by Mayor West at 11:45 AM on October 27, 2015 [15 favorites]
You know I imagine the entire class had a difficult time paying attention to the educational material after the violent physical assault that happened in their classroom that day.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 11:46 AM on October 27, 2015 [48 favorites]
posted by the turtle's teeth at 11:46 AM on October 27, 2015 [48 favorites]
Having been a high school teacher myself, I give a fuck. Students disrupting the class with their cell phones is a huge pain in the ass.
Look, I get that (and I get that you aren't defending this either), but what's more disruptive: a student sitting at her desk on her cell phone or a lengthy escalation with teachers, the principal, and the police, followed by assault?
If I were another student in that class witnessing all this, I certainly wouldn't be able to think about math or history or whatever. And now, I assure you that the phenomenal inconvenience of the world's media showing up at the school's front door is going to be a hell of a lot more disruptive to the entire student body than letting her keep her phone and dealing with it later.
posted by zachlipton at 11:47 AM on October 27, 2015 [21 favorites]
Look, I get that (and I get that you aren't defending this either), but what's more disruptive: a student sitting at her desk on her cell phone or a lengthy escalation with teachers, the principal, and the police, followed by assault?
If I were another student in that class witnessing all this, I certainly wouldn't be able to think about math or history or whatever. And now, I assure you that the phenomenal inconvenience of the world's media showing up at the school's front door is going to be a hell of a lot more disruptive to the entire student body than letting her keep her phone and dealing with it later.
posted by zachlipton at 11:47 AM on October 27, 2015 [21 favorites]
Point blank, students have a right to learn without assholes interfering in class repeatedly, and teachers have a right to teach those students without assholes preventing teaching. Your right to be a disruptive asshole--no matter how young or old you are--ends where other students' and teachers' rights begin.
That's just your usual Pretend Internet Hard Man bullshit of course.
You don't need police or specific laws to keep order in a classroom, you need good teachers who can deal with disruptive kids, even if they don't always succeed. You also need a public school system not deliberately starved of funding so that you have the actual resources to handle difficult kids. If there are too many difficult/disruptive kids to handle, that's another systemic failing you cannot solve with cops.
In my elementary school there were a few of those as well, the most difficult one to handle being a boy with a history of abuse in his family living in council care who was also rather large for his age and occasionally prone to anger attacks. It once took three teachers to subdue and calm him down during one of those, but afaik the cops were never directly involved. He wasn't a bad lad either, just somebody with issues that wouldn't have been solved if he'd been tackled by some 'roidoid and put into juvie.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:50 AM on October 27, 2015 [21 favorites]
That's just your usual Pretend Internet Hard Man bullshit of course.
You don't need police or specific laws to keep order in a classroom, you need good teachers who can deal with disruptive kids, even if they don't always succeed. You also need a public school system not deliberately starved of funding so that you have the actual resources to handle difficult kids. If there are too many difficult/disruptive kids to handle, that's another systemic failing you cannot solve with cops.
In my elementary school there were a few of those as well, the most difficult one to handle being a boy with a history of abuse in his family living in council care who was also rather large for his age and occasionally prone to anger attacks. It once took three teachers to subdue and calm him down during one of those, but afaik the cops were never directly involved. He wasn't a bad lad either, just somebody with issues that wouldn't have been solved if he'd been tackled by some 'roidoid and put into juvie.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:50 AM on October 27, 2015 [21 favorites]
"As white reactionaries lecture black people to "just respect authority" and "do what police tell you to do," in the wake of the brutal assault on a black student by a school resource officer in SC, let us be clear...the problem in this country is not black people disrespecting authority, it's white people reflexively deferring to it. To respect authority just because it IS authority is a recipe for a police state. It is the kind of robotic thinking one could only indulge because of relative privilege---because that authority had rarely been deployed against you and yours. It is what slavers said, and overseers, and segregationists, and the lynch mob. In other words, blind appeals to authority are the rhetorical substance of a long and ignoble tradition of oppression. Black people will not bend to that tradition, nor should they. Nor should anybody. Authority should stop being abusive. Period." -Tim Wise
posted by jammy at 11:51 AM on October 27, 2015 [164 favorites]
posted by jammy at 11:51 AM on October 27, 2015 [164 favorites]
Arresting a student for not paying attention in class is so mindbendingly absurd and horrible that I have trouble comprehending how such a situation could have been set up in the first place. Being inattentive in class is not a crime. Being disruptive in class is not a crime. Talking back to your teacher is not a crime. Hell, being a terrible student is not a crime. Neither is cutting class, neither is repeatedly getting sent to the principal's office. These are garden-variety school scenarios. Arresting kids for engaging in these scenarios is quite literally criminalizing youth and the process of growing up. That is so fucked it almost makes me dizzy.
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:52 AM on October 27, 2015 [73 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:52 AM on October 27, 2015 [73 favorites]
Like, yeah. It is distracting to the class when a student won't get off her cellphone. But surely calling in Officer Jackbooted Thug to conduct a violent act of public brutality is not the way to get everyone's attention back on track, so why are we even entertaining this line of fascist apologia?
posted by the turtle's teeth at 11:52 AM on October 27, 2015 [22 favorites]
posted by the turtle's teeth at 11:52 AM on October 27, 2015 [22 favorites]
And Mitheral isn't wrong; it's not unreasonable for a teacher to care that a student isn't paying attention (or really, a good teacher should care). But at some point, the disruption and harm you're doing to that one student and the entire class exceeds any possible good that can come from the situation. We passed that point and made it half way to the sun by the time this video ended.
posted by zachlipton at 11:54 AM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:54 AM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
How is someone disrupting class by quietly looking at their phone and not talking to anyone?
To the extent this is 'disruptive' in the looser scholastic sense of undermining the seriousness of the classroom and the expectation of making a basic effort to learn, which could be a real obstacle at a continuation school, for instance, it's still a matter for the vice-principal, progress-plan counselor, etc.
Not some petty tyrant who personally resents the misbehavior of underprivileged children and meets it with violence authorized by the state.
It shouldn't be a big surprise that students resist surrendering what is probably their most valuable personal possession to a bully with a badge whose enforcement of the rule is likely selective.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:54 AM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
To the extent this is 'disruptive' in the looser scholastic sense of undermining the seriousness of the classroom and the expectation of making a basic effort to learn, which could be a real obstacle at a continuation school, for instance, it's still a matter for the vice-principal, progress-plan counselor, etc.
Not some petty tyrant who personally resents the misbehavior of underprivileged children and meets it with violence authorized by the state.
It shouldn't be a big surprise that students resist surrendering what is probably their most valuable personal possession to a bully with a badge whose enforcement of the rule is likely selective.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:54 AM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
Deputy in Spring Valley Incident Had Been Sued Before
posted by jammy at 11:55 AM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by jammy at 11:55 AM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
I would bet dollars to donuts that without this video, solely on the strength of his word versus that of a classroom full of students, this creep would have gotten away with this violent assault on a student without so much as a slap on the wrist. Which only makes one wonder how commonly these so-called "resource officers" did, and do, get away with it.
And this is why recording cops isn't going to work unless there is a cultural shift in accountability. You have this on video and I am willing to take bets this will have no real impact on this officer's career. She wasn't hurt or killed, so from a police standpoint he violated no policy in affecting an arrest.
So I am suggesting the creep will get away with this. They generally do regardless of whether there is a camera involved.
posted by cjorgensen at 11:57 AM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
And this is why recording cops isn't going to work unless there is a cultural shift in accountability. You have this on video and I am willing to take bets this will have no real impact on this officer's career. She wasn't hurt or killed, so from a police standpoint he violated no policy in affecting an arrest.
So I am suggesting the creep will get away with this. They generally do regardless of whether there is a camera involved.
posted by cjorgensen at 11:57 AM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
Why the fuck are cops any part of school in the US?
My large high school had a "resource officer" too (maybe two?), and while I felt uncomfortable whenever I saw them ambling around the campus with a holstered gun, they were mostly just there to mediate the stuff that fell in between the zone of disciplinary issues the school can handle and criminal stuff the police department has to handle (drugs and alcohol, any gang-adjacent issues). The vast majority of students never even interacted with them beyond "good morning," or whatever. I don't necessarily think it's a bad idea to have one, especially in a big high school. I'm sure it's most efficient for both the school and the PD to have an officer on site who's familiar with the administration and the students, rather than to call someone out every time the vice principal suspects kids are selling each other pot or thinks a physical fight is brewing.
But there's a huge fucking difference between some cop mostly riding a desk and breaking up the occasional fight in a high school, and whatever the fuck this asshole is doing. I can't see that there's any reasonable justification for violence like this. None of these students is ever going to trust a cop ever again, if they ever did in the first place.
You do not need a cop to deal with "disruptive" students who are basically just doing what teenagers do. Like, oh no, a teenager not paying attention?! A teenager talking back to their teacher!?! These are not fucking DEFCON 1 situations. You know how a teacher can handle these situations? They can reprimand the student, and if the student continues to be disruptive or (non-physically) combative, they can ask the student to take a break and step outside, they can have another teacher keep an eye on the class while they escort the student to the principal's office, they can call up to the principal's office and have an administrator come to the classroom to escort the student to detention/the principal's office. We are too goddamn far down the road to fascism if every situation warrants a response from an armed police officer.
posted by yasaman at 11:59 AM on October 27, 2015 [26 favorites]
My large high school had a "resource officer" too (maybe two?), and while I felt uncomfortable whenever I saw them ambling around the campus with a holstered gun, they were mostly just there to mediate the stuff that fell in between the zone of disciplinary issues the school can handle and criminal stuff the police department has to handle (drugs and alcohol, any gang-adjacent issues). The vast majority of students never even interacted with them beyond "good morning," or whatever. I don't necessarily think it's a bad idea to have one, especially in a big high school. I'm sure it's most efficient for both the school and the PD to have an officer on site who's familiar with the administration and the students, rather than to call someone out every time the vice principal suspects kids are selling each other pot or thinks a physical fight is brewing.
But there's a huge fucking difference between some cop mostly riding a desk and breaking up the occasional fight in a high school, and whatever the fuck this asshole is doing. I can't see that there's any reasonable justification for violence like this. None of these students is ever going to trust a cop ever again, if they ever did in the first place.
You do not need a cop to deal with "disruptive" students who are basically just doing what teenagers do. Like, oh no, a teenager not paying attention?! A teenager talking back to their teacher!?! These are not fucking DEFCON 1 situations. You know how a teacher can handle these situations? They can reprimand the student, and if the student continues to be disruptive or (non-physically) combative, they can ask the student to take a break and step outside, they can have another teacher keep an eye on the class while they escort the student to the principal's office, they can call up to the principal's office and have an administrator come to the classroom to escort the student to detention/the principal's office. We are too goddamn far down the road to fascism if every situation warrants a response from an armed police officer.
posted by yasaman at 11:59 AM on October 27, 2015 [26 favorites]
Neither is cutting class, neither is repeatedly getting sent to the principal's office.
Truancy is a crime of sorts, often permitting detention, and truant officers were probably the direct antecedent of school resource officers, with their anti-delinquency/anti-gang framing.
So I am suggesting the creep will get away with this. They generally do regardless of whether there is a camera involved.
Whatever comes, this conversation would probably not be happening without the camera.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:00 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
Truancy is a crime of sorts, often permitting detention, and truant officers were probably the direct antecedent of school resource officers, with their anti-delinquency/anti-gang framing.
So I am suggesting the creep will get away with this. They generally do regardless of whether there is a camera involved.
Whatever comes, this conversation would probably not be happening without the camera.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:00 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
I "got through" Chem in high school by writing poetry and passing notes. Was never accused of being disruptive, although I'm certain I was.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:02 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:02 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
"It's crazy that once personal video recorders became ubiquitous UFOs stopped visiting Earth and cops started brutalizing people all the time."
posted by straight at 12:04 PM on October 27, 2015 [145 favorites]
posted by straight at 12:04 PM on October 27, 2015 [145 favorites]
I don't even buy the simplest premise that checking your phone once in a while is obviously bad for you. They say most people only manage to stay focused for 15-minute intervals before their attention starts to drift. Personally, I learn and focus better when I'm able to multitask and keep my attention moving. I've always been like that. People learn in different ways. It might be a survival strategy for your brain not turning to mush!
So much of school authority is fitting a lot of differently-working minds into a single square slot, whether it makes sense for them or not. School authority is about deference to authority and nothing more. It's a tried-and-true way of keeping the population docile. It has zero to do with actual learning or education. Actual learning would entail getting to know your students and tailoring solutions for them depending on what works best for that individual.
posted by naju at 12:05 PM on October 27, 2015 [12 favorites]
So much of school authority is fitting a lot of differently-working minds into a single square slot, whether it makes sense for them or not. School authority is about deference to authority and nothing more. It's a tried-and-true way of keeping the population docile. It has zero to do with actual learning or education. Actual learning would entail getting to know your students and tailoring solutions for them depending on what works best for that individual.
posted by naju at 12:05 PM on October 27, 2015 [12 favorites]
You don't need police or specific laws to keep order in a classroom, you need good teachers who can deal with disruptive kids, even if they don't always succeed.
To fling your nonsense back at you, that's just your usual Pretend Internet Anyone-Can-Teach bullshit of course.
Look, I specifically said I wasn't addressing the OP and this insane, steroid mall cop situation. I was defending the laws that exist to protect students' rights to learn and teachers' rights to teach free of disruptions. Nothing more than that.
(Source: I was a "good teacher" [I guess?] who never had to call the school's cops to fix my classroom discipline problems; the puny old white ladies down the hall, however, weren't so lucky when a plucky 19-year old repeatedly interrupted their efforts to teach. They need these laws.)
posted by resurrexit at 12:08 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
To fling your nonsense back at you, that's just your usual Pretend Internet Anyone-Can-Teach bullshit of course.
Look, I specifically said I wasn't addressing the OP and this insane, steroid mall cop situation. I was defending the laws that exist to protect students' rights to learn and teachers' rights to teach free of disruptions. Nothing more than that.
(Source: I was a "good teacher" [I guess?] who never had to call the school's cops to fix my classroom discipline problems; the puny old white ladies down the hall, however, weren't so lucky when a plucky 19-year old repeatedly interrupted their efforts to teach. They need these laws.)
posted by resurrexit at 12:08 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is obviously outrageous, but I think we could back off on the implicit criticism of a room full of teenagers who didn't try to fight a police officer.
Not criticizing them at all, I'm just horrified by what the relative lack of reaction from most of the kids implies about their lives. Whether it reflects them being too scared or traumatized to react or whether this kind of thing is too common to be that shocking to them, the whole thing is a nightmare.
posted by straight at 12:08 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
Not criticizing them at all, I'm just horrified by what the relative lack of reaction from most of the kids implies about their lives. Whether it reflects them being too scared or traumatized to react or whether this kind of thing is too common to be that shocking to them, the whole thing is a nightmare.
posted by straight at 12:08 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
> Hell, being a terrible student is not a crime. Neither is cutting class, neither is repeatedly getting sent to the principal's office.
I'm pretty sure the recent involvement of police in school disciplinary measures is a sort of hot-potato passing of liability to the one group of government employees that we allow to physically restrain someone. There is a sort of fucked-up logic to it: if a student raises the stakes and refuses to comply with any request by school personnel, you'd think it's better for a cop to get called in than for an assistant principal to roll up his sleeves and drag a kid out of class. At least police get training with that sort of thing.
Except that (a) often cops are involved earlier in the process, not just as a last resort; (b) people envision “ideal” cops when they make these policies, and forget that some cops are bad at their jobs, and even good cops don't act perfectly because they're human.
Hell, any escalation to physical restraint involves some small amount of risk that the person being restrained will be seriously hurt, even if they comply immediately. In general, we judge that risk to be worth it when it's borne by adults of sound mind who officers reasonably believe have committed crimes. But how can we tell ourselves it's OK for a teenager to bear that risk? Lots of teenagers have problems with authority and none of them deserves a chance of being seriously hurt because of it, even if the chance is one in ten thousand.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:12 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm pretty sure the recent involvement of police in school disciplinary measures is a sort of hot-potato passing of liability to the one group of government employees that we allow to physically restrain someone. There is a sort of fucked-up logic to it: if a student raises the stakes and refuses to comply with any request by school personnel, you'd think it's better for a cop to get called in than for an assistant principal to roll up his sleeves and drag a kid out of class. At least police get training with that sort of thing.
Except that (a) often cops are involved earlier in the process, not just as a last resort; (b) people envision “ideal” cops when they make these policies, and forget that some cops are bad at their jobs, and even good cops don't act perfectly because they're human.
Hell, any escalation to physical restraint involves some small amount of risk that the person being restrained will be seriously hurt, even if they comply immediately. In general, we judge that risk to be worth it when it's borne by adults of sound mind who officers reasonably believe have committed crimes. But how can we tell ourselves it's OK for a teenager to bear that risk? Lots of teenagers have problems with authority and none of them deserves a chance of being seriously hurt because of it, even if the chance is one in ten thousand.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:12 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
Every time you see one of these videos of police abuse, say to yourself "Man, how unlucky for that cop. The one and only time in their entire career that they do something out of line and it just happens to get caught on video. What are the odds? That's a tough break." Then, laugh at yourself for even entertaining such a ludicrous thought.
posted by mhum at 12:12 PM on October 27, 2015 [35 favorites]
posted by mhum at 12:12 PM on October 27, 2015 [35 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments deleted, can we not with the "but what if a student does x" hypotheticals?
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:14 PM on October 27, 2015
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:14 PM on October 27, 2015
Look, I specifically said I wasn't addressing the OP and this insane, steroid mall cop situation.
then maybe your comments aren't appropriate in this thread since that's the topic of conversation.
the puny old white ladies down the hall, however, weren't so lucky when a plucky 19-year old repeatedly interrupted their efforts to teach. They need these laws.
bullshit. there are other options besides criminalizing normal kid behavior. i also notice how you conveniently moved the topic from minors - which is what most schoolkids are - to a legal adult.
Because police are very dangerous and cannot be trusted, and you should avoid contact with them as much as possible, and that's an important lesson for kids to learn early.
i don't think the kids in this school need that lesson - it was obviously already taught to them prior to this, unfortunately.
posted by nadawi at 12:14 PM on October 27, 2015 [30 favorites]
then maybe your comments aren't appropriate in this thread since that's the topic of conversation.
the puny old white ladies down the hall, however, weren't so lucky when a plucky 19-year old repeatedly interrupted their efforts to teach. They need these laws.
bullshit. there are other options besides criminalizing normal kid behavior. i also notice how you conveniently moved the topic from minors - which is what most schoolkids are - to a legal adult.
Because police are very dangerous and cannot be trusted, and you should avoid contact with them as much as possible, and that's an important lesson for kids to learn early.
i don't think the kids in this school need that lesson - it was obviously already taught to them prior to this, unfortunately.
posted by nadawi at 12:14 PM on October 27, 2015 [30 favorites]
I once organized my classroom in a strike to protest the fact that our bathroom priviliges were being cut-back. At the agreed upon time, we all put our heads down on our desks and refused to work or speak until our demands were met.
That's about as disruptive as you can get, right? Guess who wasn't punished in any measurable way, save for a barely-stern talking to from an obviously amused principal, and a vague threat that the petition I circulated would go into my "permanent record". If my actions had been met instead with the brutal violence this child received, what would I have learned, I wonder?
This video is horrifying. The fact that so many people are blaming the child is horrifying. The fact that the assailant hasn't been arrested is outrageous.
You truly aren't eligible for childhood if you are black in America.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 12:15 PM on October 27, 2015 [80 favorites]
That's about as disruptive as you can get, right? Guess who wasn't punished in any measurable way, save for a barely-stern talking to from an obviously amused principal, and a vague threat that the petition I circulated would go into my "permanent record". If my actions had been met instead with the brutal violence this child received, what would I have learned, I wonder?
This video is horrifying. The fact that so many people are blaming the child is horrifying. The fact that the assailant hasn't been arrested is outrageous.
You truly aren't eligible for childhood if you are black in America.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 12:15 PM on October 27, 2015 [80 favorites]
@ShaunKing has been retweeting tweets from students and alumni of the hs, and emails from the hs principal. The principal is declaring that the officer will never be allowed back in the school--and the students and alumni are saying he's been doing this shit for years (see jammy's link). The student tweets are saying the students and some teachers have been afraid of this guy for years.
Phone cameras for sure.
posted by Wilbefort at 12:16 PM on October 27, 2015 [14 favorites]
Phone cameras for sure.
posted by Wilbefort at 12:16 PM on October 27, 2015 [14 favorites]
How does one de-escalate this situation ? The kid was standing their ground (about handing over phone) and cop was trying to get kid outta the class.
Definitely what happened ain't right. So how do you get someone to go ? How do you get someone to comply ? (because I think resurrexit's "what if the student [person] says .." is probably the next step in resistance.. )
Given the number of car-chase videos where the cops haul the driver out of the car kicking/screaming (and then beat the heck out of the driver while shouting "stop resisting"), the typical cop response is physical force when someone doesn't "comply" ..
posted by k5.user at 12:16 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
Definitely what happened ain't right. So how do you get someone to go ? How do you get someone to comply ? (because I think resurrexit's "what if the student [person] says .." is probably the next step in resistance.. )
Given the number of car-chase videos where the cops haul the driver out of the car kicking/screaming (and then beat the heck out of the driver while shouting "stop resisting"), the typical cop response is physical force when someone doesn't "comply" ..
posted by k5.user at 12:16 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
This video makes me angry.
I'm trying to decide if the fact the assaulter is in a cop uniform makes it better or worse. Seeing a white cop beat a black girl immediately triggers a very strong reaction against racism and fascism. So the fact that he's in uniform makes it appear worse.
But then imagine the same video, only it's an ordinarily-dressed white man beating the black girl. Just some regular guy. Maybe a teacher's aide. I think that would look even worse.
Either way, the abuser belongs in jail. He is too dangerous to be on the streets around children.
posted by Nelson at 12:20 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'm trying to decide if the fact the assaulter is in a cop uniform makes it better or worse. Seeing a white cop beat a black girl immediately triggers a very strong reaction against racism and fascism. So the fact that he's in uniform makes it appear worse.
But then imagine the same video, only it's an ordinarily-dressed white man beating the black girl. Just some regular guy. Maybe a teacher's aide. I think that would look even worse.
Either way, the abuser belongs in jail. He is too dangerous to be on the streets around children.
posted by Nelson at 12:20 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
How does one de-escalate this situation ?
Tell the kid to put away the phone. Ask the kid to take the call out of the room. If they don't, go on with the lesson plan.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:20 PM on October 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
Tell the kid to put away the phone. Ask the kid to take the call out of the room. If they don't, go on with the lesson plan.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:20 PM on October 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
if you can't brainstorm a way to de-escalate that situation, please stay away from kids and positions of authority.
posted by nadawi at 12:21 PM on October 27, 2015 [62 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 12:21 PM on October 27, 2015 [62 favorites]
I was defending the laws that exist to protect students' rights to learn and teachers' rights to teach free of disruptions.
Why do they have to be laws? Why can't they just be rules?
posted by KathrynT at 12:21 PM on October 27, 2015 [14 favorites]
Why do they have to be laws? Why can't they just be rules?
posted by KathrynT at 12:21 PM on October 27, 2015 [14 favorites]
Everyone is like "well how are people suppose to deal with disruptive students without a cop?!" Well, how were they dealt with before cops were in schools? At my school we had peer advisers and trained adults on campus who dealt with issues, not cops. If a kid was having problems acting out at school it sometimes had to deal with issues at home.
And LOL, if a kid says "I'm not leaving" you keep telling them to leave and ratcheting up the citations and they'll most likely leave on their own accord, albeit in a huff. Geeze, has no one here ever been in high school? I can't count how many times I watched kids refuse to leave their desks when asked to leave the classroom after being disruptive, then after reaching a certain point where they're in sufficient enough trouble they'd eventually leave because they knew they were in trouble. We didn't have cops at my school and we handled disruptive kids just fine.
Likewise, judging from the school's website, this school doesn't look like it's necessarily a "bad" school in the middle of some "ghetto" or anything. It looks a lot nicer than my high school and it was named one of the most academically challenging schools by the Washington Post.
posted by gucci mane at 12:23 PM on October 27, 2015 [18 favorites]
And LOL, if a kid says "I'm not leaving" you keep telling them to leave and ratcheting up the citations and they'll most likely leave on their own accord, albeit in a huff. Geeze, has no one here ever been in high school? I can't count how many times I watched kids refuse to leave their desks when asked to leave the classroom after being disruptive, then after reaching a certain point where they're in sufficient enough trouble they'd eventually leave because they knew they were in trouble. We didn't have cops at my school and we handled disruptive kids just fine.
Likewise, judging from the school's website, this school doesn't look like it's necessarily a "bad" school in the middle of some "ghetto" or anything. It looks a lot nicer than my high school and it was named one of the most academically challenging schools by the Washington Post.
posted by gucci mane at 12:23 PM on October 27, 2015 [18 favorites]
Definitely what happened ain't right. So how do you get someone to go ? How do you get someone to comply ?
There are, clearly, quite a few steps between a child refusing to "comply" and violently throwing them across the room. I am proudly not a cop, but to my mind negotiation, calmly telling the child that they are going to be removed from the class, telling them how they are going to be removed (physically but with minimum necessary force) if they don't want to come under their own volition, would surely slot in there somewhere.
I had police visit my highschool once; when someone stole some computers and music keyboards out of a window during school hours. We also had a couple of times when students did do the whole "fuck you bitch" routine. No police were involved. No violence was involved. One of them is on my Facebook and turned out just fine.
posted by Jimbob at 12:24 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
There are, clearly, quite a few steps between a child refusing to "comply" and violently throwing them across the room. I am proudly not a cop, but to my mind negotiation, calmly telling the child that they are going to be removed from the class, telling them how they are going to be removed (physically but with minimum necessary force) if they don't want to come under their own volition, would surely slot in there somewhere.
I had police visit my highschool once; when someone stole some computers and music keyboards out of a window during school hours. We also had a couple of times when students did do the whole "fuck you bitch" routine. No police were involved. No violence was involved. One of them is on my Facebook and turned out just fine.
posted by Jimbob at 12:24 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
Mod note: One comment deleted. resurrexit, if you aren't just looking for a fight here, you need to make that more clear.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:24 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:24 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
I am not defending cops in schools. I loathe the very concept.
I am not defending this particular cop.
Someone far above in this thread tied state laws designed to protect students and teachers from classroom disruptors to this incident; that's where I (a former teacher at a pretty rough school) weighed in. I am only defending those laws, which don't have much to do with this situation.
posted by resurrexit at 12:25 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
I am not defending this particular cop.
Someone far above in this thread tied state laws designed to protect students and teachers from classroom disruptors to this incident; that's where I (a former teacher at a pretty rough school) weighed in. I am only defending those laws, which don't have much to do with this situation.
posted by resurrexit at 12:25 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
It doesn't matter how many times the student was told to stand up, or put away her phone, or pay attention. She posed no threat to the officer, her classmates, herself or the instructor. She was unarmed. She was seated. She is a child. At no point in that video should Deputy Ben Fields' reaction to this have been physical.
posted by Flipping_Hades_Terwilliger at 12:27 PM on October 27, 2015 [40 favorites]
posted by Flipping_Hades_Terwilliger at 12:27 PM on October 27, 2015 [40 favorites]
How does one de-escalate this situation ? The kid was standing their ground (about handing over phone) and cop was trying to get kid outta the class.
We have a pretty straight forward policy. First time a student does something, tell them you're going to send them to the office. Second time, send them to the office. At the office, they receive some counseling and, as warranted, a disciplinary measure of some sort. Parents are notified.
No officers involved.
An officer shouldn't be involved because class is being disrupted. Unless there is a threat to the health and safety of the other students, the teacher and the school counselors/vice principals/whatevers should handle problems of this sort.
Now, of course, school boards in 'Merica tend to reduce funding for counseling and increase funding for security. To whit, we're escalating by policy. We're making the choice to forgo relationship building and counseling (which are effective in nearly all cases) in favor of strong arm tactics.
To whit, actually working to address problems in student behavior sounds too wimpy and liberal.
Back to your original question, though, yeah, calling the principal to your class (and then the security guard) is not de-escalating on the part of the admin. Its a strong arm 'respect my author-i-tay' tactic.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:28 PM on October 27, 2015 [18 favorites]
We have a pretty straight forward policy. First time a student does something, tell them you're going to send them to the office. Second time, send them to the office. At the office, they receive some counseling and, as warranted, a disciplinary measure of some sort. Parents are notified.
No officers involved.
An officer shouldn't be involved because class is being disrupted. Unless there is a threat to the health and safety of the other students, the teacher and the school counselors/vice principals/whatevers should handle problems of this sort.
Now, of course, school boards in 'Merica tend to reduce funding for counseling and increase funding for security. To whit, we're escalating by policy. We're making the choice to forgo relationship building and counseling (which are effective in nearly all cases) in favor of strong arm tactics.
To whit, actually working to address problems in student behavior sounds too wimpy and liberal.
Back to your original question, though, yeah, calling the principal to your class (and then the security guard) is not de-escalating on the part of the admin. Its a strong arm 'respect my author-i-tay' tactic.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:28 PM on October 27, 2015 [18 favorites]
How does one de-escalate this situation ? The kid was standing their ground (about handing over phone) and cop was trying to get kid outta the class.
Uh, how do parents handle their disruptive children without calling the cops? Teachers are supposed to be acting in loco parentis while in the classroom/school setting. There are a hell of a lot of steps between "disruptive teenager who will not comply" and "situation worthy of calling in an armed police officer." Most people would agree that parents should only call the cops on their own children when someone's physical safety is at risk, and even then, it's an agonizing decision because guess what, that cop might kill your possibly developmentally disabled or mentally ill or conspicuously brown kid!
posted by yasaman at 12:28 PM on October 27, 2015 [31 favorites]
Uh, how do parents handle their disruptive children without calling the cops? Teachers are supposed to be acting in loco parentis while in the classroom/school setting. There are a hell of a lot of steps between "disruptive teenager who will not comply" and "situation worthy of calling in an armed police officer." Most people would agree that parents should only call the cops on their own children when someone's physical safety is at risk, and even then, it's an agonizing decision because guess what, that cop might kill your possibly developmentally disabled or mentally ill or conspicuously brown kid!
posted by yasaman at 12:28 PM on October 27, 2015 [31 favorites]
Wilbefort: "@ShaunKing has been retweeting tweets from students and alumni of the hs, and emails from the hs principal. The principal is declaring that the officer will never be allowed back in the school--and the students and alumni are saying he's been doing this shit for years "
How the hell does a principal not have the authority to assign (or fire, or etc) the officer in the school?
posted by boo_radley at 12:28 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
How the hell does a principal not have the authority to assign (or fire, or etc) the officer in the school?
posted by boo_radley at 12:28 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
We didn't have cell phones when I was in high school (well, some rare people did, but I don't think texting nor any kind of data were things.) but I feel like we still spent all of class being quietly disruptive and not paying attention. writing notes, doodling, whispering, trying to throw pencils down people's buttcracks (low cut jeans were the real thing those years.)
the fact that this 100% common teenage girl behaviour was dealt with through violence, is crazy. I'm not saying it's the teacher's fault that this happened because it clearly isn't, but where is his ability to deal with this in a non-escalation way? why are you teaching highschool if you can't deal with normal highschooler behaviour?
I feel like no DUH a teenage girl is not giving her cellphone to the teacher or to the principle. I wouldn't either, and I don't even jaywalk. just tell her to put it away. tell her to read her texts out loud. do the things that teachers have been doing for hundreds of years with note passing.
cops in schools. crazy. I grew up in a pretty rural garbage city where every disagreement was solved with an actual fistfight, and we still didn't need cops, we just needed adults who knew how to treat kids with some respect so that they were respected in return.
posted by euphoria066 at 12:30 PM on October 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
the fact that this 100% common teenage girl behaviour was dealt with through violence, is crazy. I'm not saying it's the teacher's fault that this happened because it clearly isn't, but where is his ability to deal with this in a non-escalation way? why are you teaching highschool if you can't deal with normal highschooler behaviour?
I feel like no DUH a teenage girl is not giving her cellphone to the teacher or to the principle. I wouldn't either, and I don't even jaywalk. just tell her to put it away. tell her to read her texts out loud. do the things that teachers have been doing for hundreds of years with note passing.
cops in schools. crazy. I grew up in a pretty rural garbage city where every disagreement was solved with an actual fistfight, and we still didn't need cops, we just needed adults who knew how to treat kids with some respect so that they were respected in return.
posted by euphoria066 at 12:30 PM on October 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
"Meanwhile, the Director of the FBI claims scrutiny of police is causing higher crime rates in big cities. I shit thee not."
I read the linked article....Am I interpreting it correctly, that the premise is that cops aren't doing their jobs, because they are afraid that they can't do their job if they are worried about civil rights?
posted by das_2099 at 12:30 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
I read the linked article....Am I interpreting it correctly, that the premise is that cops aren't doing their jobs, because they are afraid that they can't do their job if they are worried about civil rights?
posted by das_2099 at 12:30 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
naju: I don't care how 'disruptive' she was -- and initial reports suggest she wasn't. School is a more-or-less safe space for testing authority. I'm the person I am now - independent, questioning, fiercely just - because I was given a certain measure of freedom in pushing back and being disruptive in school. That's what smart, self-aware kids inevitably do. You deal with it reasonably, gently, and with understanding that these are kids and this is perfectly natural.
sio42: I can't watch the video. But from what I understand the girl looked at her phone and was caught. She refused to turn it over.
You can't force people to pay attention. If she was being quiet and looking at her phone who gives a fuck?
I disagree with school being a "safe space to test authority" and that phones aren't distractions. First, classroom rules aren't set up as structures to be tested, they're to set ground rules so everyone knows what you can and can't do in class. And phones are a distraction to all students, because all students have them and want to check them. Let one kid check their phone, and everyone is.
Yes, rules are tested in high school, and it's true, you can't force anyone to pay attention, but teachers set limits to reduce the time spent dealing with kids testing the rules so they can maximize educational time. Every minute spent talking to one kid about why they need to put their phone away and why they aren't a special snowflake takes away time from the rest of the class.
(And yes, those are all generalizations - lots of teachers don't care about rules, or maximizing teaching time.)
Really, it comes back to training teachers to handle classrooms, and school administration supporting appropriate responses to kids "testing the rules." As a bonus, why not pay teachers enough so they have competition for jobs, not an eternal need for teachers so anyone will do? Oh right, education isn't that important, and "if you can't do, teach." [Let's kill that phrase and mindset, while we're granting wishes.]
posted by filthy light thief at 12:31 PM on October 27, 2015 [10 favorites]
sio42: I can't watch the video. But from what I understand the girl looked at her phone and was caught. She refused to turn it over.
You can't force people to pay attention. If she was being quiet and looking at her phone who gives a fuck?
I disagree with school being a "safe space to test authority" and that phones aren't distractions. First, classroom rules aren't set up as structures to be tested, they're to set ground rules so everyone knows what you can and can't do in class. And phones are a distraction to all students, because all students have them and want to check them. Let one kid check their phone, and everyone is.
Yes, rules are tested in high school, and it's true, you can't force anyone to pay attention, but teachers set limits to reduce the time spent dealing with kids testing the rules so they can maximize educational time. Every minute spent talking to one kid about why they need to put their phone away and why they aren't a special snowflake takes away time from the rest of the class.
(And yes, those are all generalizations - lots of teachers don't care about rules, or maximizing teaching time.)
Really, it comes back to training teachers to handle classrooms, and school administration supporting appropriate responses to kids "testing the rules." As a bonus, why not pay teachers enough so they have competition for jobs, not an eternal need for teachers so anyone will do? Oh right, education isn't that important, and "if you can't do, teach." [Let's kill that phrase and mindset, while we're granting wishes.]
posted by filthy light thief at 12:31 PM on October 27, 2015 [10 favorites]
I disagree with school being a "safe space to test authority" and that phones aren't distractions. First, classroom rules aren't set up as structures to be tested, they're to set ground rules so everyone knows what you can and can't do in class. And phones are a distraction to all students, because all students have them and want to check them. Let one kid check their phone, and everyone is.
Yes, rules are tested in high school, and it's true, you can't force anyone to pay attention, but teachers set limits to reduce the time spent dealing with kids testing the rules so they can maximize educational time. Every minute spent talking to one kid about why they need to put their phone away and why they aren't a special snowflake takes away time from the rest of the class.
(And yes, those are all generalizations - lots of teachers don't care about rules, or maximizing teaching time.)
Really, it comes back to training teachers to handle classrooms, and school administration supporting appropriate responses to kids "testing the rules." As a bonus, why not pay teachers enough so they have competition for jobs, not an eternal need for teachers so anyone will do? Oh right, education isn't that important, and "if you can't do, teach." [Let's kill that phrase and mindset, while we're granting wishes.]
All of this.
posted by resurrexit at 12:32 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
Yes, rules are tested in high school, and it's true, you can't force anyone to pay attention, but teachers set limits to reduce the time spent dealing with kids testing the rules so they can maximize educational time. Every minute spent talking to one kid about why they need to put their phone away and why they aren't a special snowflake takes away time from the rest of the class.
(And yes, those are all generalizations - lots of teachers don't care about rules, or maximizing teaching time.)
Really, it comes back to training teachers to handle classrooms, and school administration supporting appropriate responses to kids "testing the rules." As a bonus, why not pay teachers enough so they have competition for jobs, not an eternal need for teachers so anyone will do? Oh right, education isn't that important, and "if you can't do, teach." [Let's kill that phrase and mindset, while we're granting wishes.]
All of this.
posted by resurrexit at 12:32 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
How the hell does a principal not have the authority to assign (or fire, or etc) the officer in the school?
in my school the "resource officers" authority came from the police, not the school. the administration could complain, but they didn't have direct control over staffing or engagement.
posted by nadawi at 12:33 PM on October 27, 2015
in my school the "resource officers" authority came from the police, not the school. the administration could complain, but they didn't have direct control over staffing or engagement.
posted by nadawi at 12:33 PM on October 27, 2015
I am not defending cops in schools. I loathe the very concept.They absolutely do have a lot to do with this situation since this situation would not even be possible if the law didn't exist. You can't criminalize "classroom disruption" and then wash your hands of that choice when the criminal justice system enforces that law in a way you don't like.
I am not defending this particular cop.
Someone far above in this thread tied state laws designed to protect students and teachers from classroom disruptors to this incident; that's where I (a former teacher at a pretty rough school) weighed in. I am only defending those laws, which don't have much to do with this situation.
posted by cnelson at 12:33 PM on October 27, 2015 [11 favorites]
Mod note: A couple comments deleted. We have plenty going on in here without introducing a fight about unions in general.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:35 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:35 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
I disrupted a hell of a lot of classrooms as a kid and I never so much as saw a cop. But then, I'm white.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:36 PM on October 27, 2015 [29 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:36 PM on October 27, 2015 [29 favorites]
How does one de-escalate this situation ?
Deescalation can be hard no doubt, but a good first step to deescalation is to not escalate (i.e. raise the encounter to the level of a verbal or physical altercation when a request to desist a non-violent, low-grade "disruption of class" fails).
Like how is it not enough to mark this down in a file somewhere and deal with it later? Especially if the concern is disrupting the class?
posted by Matt Oneiros at 12:36 PM on October 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
Deescalation can be hard no doubt, but a good first step to deescalation is to not escalate (i.e. raise the encounter to the level of a verbal or physical altercation when a request to desist a non-violent, low-grade "disruption of class" fails).
Like how is it not enough to mark this down in a file somewhere and deal with it later? Especially if the concern is disrupting the class?
posted by Matt Oneiros at 12:36 PM on October 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
How the hell does a principal not have the authority to assign (or fire, or etc) the officer in the school?
in my school the "resource officers" authority came from the police, not the school. the administration could complain, but they didn't have direct control over staffing or engagement.
That'd be my intuition as well. As now promised, the school admins can likely prevent the officer from being on the grounds, but lack direct authority over his assignment. That said, the school is probably required to have an officer by some mechanism, and the department to provide one...
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:39 PM on October 27, 2015
in my school the "resource officers" authority came from the police, not the school. the administration could complain, but they didn't have direct control over staffing or engagement.
That'd be my intuition as well. As now promised, the school admins can likely prevent the officer from being on the grounds, but lack direct authority over his assignment. That said, the school is probably required to have an officer by some mechanism, and the department to provide one...
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:39 PM on October 27, 2015
If I called the cops every time a child in my care refused to do something I'd told them to do, they'd have to set up a mobile precinct outside my house. If you need armed police officers to enforce your classroom discipline -- whether the "you" in this case is an individual teacher or an entire educational institution -- then either your expectations or your policies are out of whack with reality.
posted by KathrynT at 12:40 PM on October 27, 2015 [21 favorites]
posted by KathrynT at 12:40 PM on October 27, 2015 [21 favorites]
How the hell does a principal not have the authority to assign (or fire, or etc) the officer in the school?
It may be that the school district has a Head of Security who supervises the officers and has hiring/firing authority -- I'm not sure how it is for schools, but some larger library systems have it set up that way. (I've seen this turn into a Not Good Situation when the security officer disciplined a patron for something that was totally fine, and the branch manager had zero authority in terms of fixing this...)
posted by Jeanne at 12:40 PM on October 27, 2015
It may be that the school district has a Head of Security who supervises the officers and has hiring/firing authority -- I'm not sure how it is for schools, but some larger library systems have it set up that way. (I've seen this turn into a Not Good Situation when the security officer disciplined a patron for something that was totally fine, and the branch manager had zero authority in terms of fixing this...)
posted by Jeanne at 12:40 PM on October 27, 2015
Like how is it not enough to mark this down in a file somewhere and deal with it later? Especially if the concern is disrupting the class?
I think the concern is that without a sufficient immediate display of AUTHORITY and CONSEQUENCES the entire classroom will dissolve into anarchy and the teacher's tenuous grasp on control will evaporate, never to be achieved ever again.
Losing control of the classroom is not an unreasonable concern, but again, an immediate appeal to what amounts to fascism should not be the first response. A teacher can implement consequences that don't require escalation to removal from class like: "if you don't put your phone away, then your participation grade for the day is zero, and will continue to be zero for every day you engage in this behavior," or "I have assigned you to detention. If you don't show up for detention, then you will be facing suspension or other disciplinary action." Apply such disciplinary actions to all other students who are emboldened to misbehave based on one bad student's actions. If order breaks down further or completely, well, sorry, but there are absolutely bigger problems than one student and one teacher and you should be addressing those instead.
posted by yasaman at 12:45 PM on October 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
I think the concern is that without a sufficient immediate display of AUTHORITY and CONSEQUENCES the entire classroom will dissolve into anarchy and the teacher's tenuous grasp on control will evaporate, never to be achieved ever again.
Losing control of the classroom is not an unreasonable concern, but again, an immediate appeal to what amounts to fascism should not be the first response. A teacher can implement consequences that don't require escalation to removal from class like: "if you don't put your phone away, then your participation grade for the day is zero, and will continue to be zero for every day you engage in this behavior," or "I have assigned you to detention. If you don't show up for detention, then you will be facing suspension or other disciplinary action." Apply such disciplinary actions to all other students who are emboldened to misbehave based on one bad student's actions. If order breaks down further or completely, well, sorry, but there are absolutely bigger problems than one student and one teacher and you should be addressing those instead.
posted by yasaman at 12:45 PM on October 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
Every minute spent talking to one kid about why they need to put their phone away and why they aren't a special snowflake takes away time from the rest of the class.
You can just talk to them after class and figure out what's going on, and calmly seek a solution. Like I said - this is perfectly natural behavior no matter which school you're teaching at, and it's part of the job to deal with this completely inevitable situation. In my experience, once it gets to the point where your parents might need to be notified, you tend to know you've gone too far. And yes - part of testing the waters of adulthood is not always doing what is expected of you. This is not a shocker. It's called being a teenager! It's better to do this in school, where you're (supposed to be) in safety.
But I worry that this is all contributing to a derail - that is, when we're talking about classroom discipline strategies in general, we're not talking specifically about the way America treats black kids. Which is the real issue here, isn't it?
posted by naju at 12:45 PM on October 27, 2015 [22 favorites]
You can just talk to them after class and figure out what's going on, and calmly seek a solution. Like I said - this is perfectly natural behavior no matter which school you're teaching at, and it's part of the job to deal with this completely inevitable situation. In my experience, once it gets to the point where your parents might need to be notified, you tend to know you've gone too far. And yes - part of testing the waters of adulthood is not always doing what is expected of you. This is not a shocker. It's called being a teenager! It's better to do this in school, where you're (supposed to be) in safety.
But I worry that this is all contributing to a derail - that is, when we're talking about classroom discipline strategies in general, we're not talking specifically about the way America treats black kids. Which is the real issue here, isn't it?
posted by naju at 12:45 PM on October 27, 2015 [22 favorites]
How many beatings, arrests, shootings, church burnings, is it going to have to take, before white people realize there's a problem...and they're it?
feels like the sixties again, with a twist
posted by infini at 12:45 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
feels like the sixties again, with a twist
posted by infini at 12:45 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
Those laws have everything to do with the situation. Those laws are one of the reasons the cops are in the school, those laws are one of the reasons Deputy Ben Fields felt he needed to assault a child, and those laws are precisely the problem.
I guess I actually have to copy and paste the text here for someone to read the freaking statute:
posted by resurrexit at 12:47 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
I guess I actually have to copy and paste the text here for someone to read the freaking statute:
(A) It shall be unlawful:Where does it require cops in schools or assaults?(1) for any person wilfully or unnecessarily (a) to interfere with or to disturb in any way or in any place the students or teachers of any school or college in this State, (b) to loiter about such school or college premises or (c) to act in an obnoxious manner thereon; or(B) Any person violating any of the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and, on conviction thereof, shall pay a fine of not more than one thousand dollars or be imprisoned in the county jail for not more than ninety days.
(2) for any person to (a) enter upon any such school or college premises or (b) loiter around the premises, except on business, without the permission of the principal or president in charge.
(C) The summary courts are vested with jurisdiction to hear and dispose of cases involving a violation of this section. If the person is a child as defined by Section 63-19-20, jurisdiction must remain vested in the Family Court.
posted by resurrexit at 12:47 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
Whether the student was using her phone or not, whether she should have been using her phone or not, whether she was paying attention or not, whether she was being disruptive or not, whether she deserved to be disciplined or not - all of that is completely irrelevant.
Was the student posing an imminent physical threat to another person's physical safety? If the answer is no - and the answer in this case is clearly no - then a physical response is not justified.
(And even if she was posing an imminent physical threat to another student, that doesn't justify assault - it just means that some type of physical restraint might be necessary.)
posted by insectosaurus at 12:48 PM on October 27, 2015 [12 favorites]
Was the student posing an imminent physical threat to another person's physical safety? If the answer is no - and the answer in this case is clearly no - then a physical response is not justified.
(And even if she was posing an imminent physical threat to another student, that doesn't justify assault - it just means that some type of physical restraint might be necessary.)
posted by insectosaurus at 12:48 PM on October 27, 2015 [12 favorites]
Fact is we pay lousy money for our police in many areas of the country and lousy money for teachers in most of the country...and then we wonder why bad stuff takes place.
ANOTHER VIDEO RELEASED ON THIS INCIDENT
In passing, I know that this situation annoys many of those commenting, but I am--is it my old age?--curious why Fuck, Shit, etc. must be used so casually and frequently is posting comments. Does this make the comment more "straight from the gut"?
posted by Postroad at 12:51 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
ANOTHER VIDEO RELEASED ON THIS INCIDENT
In passing, I know that this situation annoys many of those commenting, but I am--is it my old age?--curious why Fuck, Shit, etc. must be used so casually and frequently is posting comments. Does this make the comment more "straight from the gut"?
posted by Postroad at 12:51 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
We had cops in our public school in the late 80s. I don't remember them ever coming into a classroom. The main worry for me back then was that they chained the exit doors during classes.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:51 PM on October 27, 2015
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:51 PM on October 27, 2015
Obedience and control of children: more important than their not dying in a fire.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:52 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:52 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
resurrexit: "Where does it require cops in schools or assaults?
"
I don't want to get down in the weeds too much, but that statute makes things unlawful and declares them misdemeanors.So right there, I guess?
Also: Holy shit, $1000?
posted by boo_radley at 12:53 PM on October 27, 2015 [13 favorites]
"
I don't want to get down in the weeds too much, but that statute makes things unlawful and declares them misdemeanors.So right there, I guess?
Also: Holy shit, $1000?
posted by boo_radley at 12:53 PM on October 27, 2015 [13 favorites]
The teacher probably didn't have much choice about enforcing the no-phones rule or taking it or calling for assistance when she wouldn't surrender it. Any teacher who resisted such a setup would probably be fired, even if they knew there were better ways to deal with distraction and phones. I'm just guessing. But teachers seem to have very little freedom to manage their own classrooms in a zero-tolerance setup.
posted by emjaybee at 12:54 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 12:54 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
Does this make the comment more "straight from the gut"?
Some people use expletives to convey a sense of emotion. In this case, outraged disbelief. However vitriolic, the language cannot be more obscene than the incident was.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:55 PM on October 27, 2015 [13 favorites]
Some people use expletives to convey a sense of emotion. In this case, outraged disbelief. However vitriolic, the language cannot be more obscene than the incident was.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:55 PM on October 27, 2015 [13 favorites]
Wait.
Someone in this thread is actually defending the existence of a law that literally prohibits children from being obnoxious at school, on pain of arrest.
And posting the text of that law to demonstrate that the law is reasonable.
Have I accidentally been transported to that terrible planet described in A Wrinkle in Time where all of the children live in constant agonizing fear of being terribly punished for bouncing their balls out of time?
Can I go home?
posted by BlueJae at 12:56 PM on October 27, 2015 [59 favorites]
Someone in this thread is actually defending the existence of a law that literally prohibits children from being obnoxious at school, on pain of arrest.
And posting the text of that law to demonstrate that the law is reasonable.
Have I accidentally been transported to that terrible planet described in A Wrinkle in Time where all of the children live in constant agonizing fear of being terribly punished for bouncing their balls out of time?
Can I go home?
posted by BlueJae at 12:56 PM on October 27, 2015 [59 favorites]
to act in an obnoxious manner thereon
This clause is fucking obnoxious. I can't imagine anyone in a position to draft this law, let alone vote on it, reading that clause and thinking "no way this could be abused, no sirree!" Which means that everyone voting this bill into law was OK with the notion of any of a wide range of normal human teenager behaviors being treated as misdemeanors, thousand dollar fine attendant and all, probably because they know it will only rarely be applied to white kids.
posted by axiom at 12:58 PM on October 27, 2015 [14 favorites]
This clause is fucking obnoxious. I can't imagine anyone in a position to draft this law, let alone vote on it, reading that clause and thinking "no way this could be abused, no sirree!" Which means that everyone voting this bill into law was OK with the notion of any of a wide range of normal human teenager behaviors being treated as misdemeanors, thousand dollar fine attendant and all, probably because they know it will only rarely be applied to white kids.
posted by axiom at 12:58 PM on October 27, 2015 [14 favorites]
resurrexit:
It would seem that when you declare something to be "unlawful" you're pretty much asking for law enforcement officers to become involved in, well, enforcing the law.
On preview, jinx boo_radley
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:58 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
"Where does it require cops in schools or assaults?""(A) It shall be unlawful"
It would seem that when you declare something to be "unlawful" you're pretty much asking for law enforcement officers to become involved in, well, enforcing the law.
On preview, jinx boo_radley
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:58 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
It would seem that when you declare something to be "unlawful" you're pretty much asking for law enforcement officers to become involved in, well, enforcing the law.
Um, we don't station officers everywhere a law might be broken. There's probably additional administrative rules that deal with the specifics of school officers, if they aren't in the education code. Does it really matter that much here? This arrangement is commonplace across states and school districts.
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:02 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
Um, we don't station officers everywhere a law might be broken. There's probably additional administrative rules that deal with the specifics of school officers, if they aren't in the education code. Does it really matter that much here? This arrangement is commonplace across states and school districts.
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:02 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
Mod note: Couple comments deleted. If you want to talk about another aspect, go ahead and do so rather than making metacommentary about it.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:05 PM on October 27, 2015
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:05 PM on October 27, 2015
Well, right off the bat they should get rid of the stupid title. "Resource Officer" is less than honest. Euphemisms like that are used when you're trying to hide a things true purpose.
posted by valkane at 1:06 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by valkane at 1:06 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
Also, I understand why the teacher, a black man, didn't protest as well. [...]
posted by longdaysjourney at 11:17 AM on October 27 [3 favorites +] [!]
The few reports about this incident that I've seen which mention the teacher by name ID him as Robert Long, who appears to be white. Was there another teacher involved?
[I haven't had an opportunity to watch the videos, in case they make the situation more clear]
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 1:10 PM on October 27, 2015
posted by longdaysjourney at 11:17 AM on October 27 [3 favorites +] [!]
The few reports about this incident that I've seen which mention the teacher by name ID him as Robert Long, who appears to be white. Was there another teacher involved?
[I haven't had an opportunity to watch the videos, in case they make the situation more clear]
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 1:10 PM on October 27, 2015
Well Postroad Some of us just like fucking cussing. We were probably poor students in trouble a lot as discipline problems. However, we weren't treated to the excesses of police discipline because back in the day, it just wasn't done. Also, many of us were white and were entitled to be treated as if we were better than folk of color because of institutional racism. And yet I still managed to learn to fear the large angry men with guns. Yay me. Thank god for the ubiquity of cell phone cameras. It's time for this bullshit to stop.
posted by evilDoug at 1:17 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by evilDoug at 1:17 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
some of the students in the class say this was actually over the victim chewing gum, not a cell phone (not that it matters, really). also that the teacher didn't feel bad because according to him, "she should have cooperated." they say there was no disruption until the adults caused one.
posted by nadawi at 1:19 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 1:19 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
I wonder if the lobbyists for for-profit prisons are the same people who campaign against education reform...
Yes.
And how much of an intersection there is with the people who campaign for harsher anti-immigration laws...
A lot.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:24 PM on October 27, 2015 [22 favorites]
Yes.
And how much of an intersection there is with the people who campaign for harsher anti-immigration laws...
A lot.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:24 PM on October 27, 2015 [22 favorites]
Threads on policy brutality over the past couple of years have emphasised to me a highly ingrained streak of deference to authority in US culture. I find it interesting that a nation that prides itself on individuality and rebel spirit would also consistently generate the "but how do you make them comply?" response.
Maybe the two things are related. Maybe Americans have a sense that order will quickly break down if compliance with authority is not absolutely enforced.
In most of the world, there is little sense of a need to make someone comply with authority every time they encounter it. It is possible to de-escalate and implement appropriate sanctions, for authority to lose the battle and win the war. The idea that once a police officer (or other authority figure) has issued an instruction it must be carried out is an unexamined assumption that seems, to me, to do very little good.
posted by howfar at 1:28 PM on October 27, 2015 [26 favorites]
Maybe the two things are related. Maybe Americans have a sense that order will quickly break down if compliance with authority is not absolutely enforced.
In most of the world, there is little sense of a need to make someone comply with authority every time they encounter it. It is possible to de-escalate and implement appropriate sanctions, for authority to lose the battle and win the war. The idea that once a police officer (or other authority figure) has issued an instruction it must be carried out is an unexamined assumption that seems, to me, to do very little good.
posted by howfar at 1:28 PM on October 27, 2015 [26 favorites]
I find it interesting that a nation that prides itself on individuality and rebel spirit would also consistently generate the "but how do you make them comply?" response.
You're missing the race aspect.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:30 PM on October 27, 2015 [71 favorites]
You're missing the race aspect.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:30 PM on October 27, 2015 [71 favorites]
Good point.
posted by howfar at 1:32 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by howfar at 1:32 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
I can only favorite roomthreeseventeen's comment once, alas.
posted by KathrynT at 1:33 PM on October 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by KathrynT at 1:33 PM on October 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
I wonder if the lobbyists for for-profit prisons are the same people who campaign against education reform...
Yes.
This is a correspondence so corrupt and full of malice that any company caught doing it should pay a huge price in perception and prestige. Sadly, we're a huge distance away from that kind of ethical clarity even in the basic goal of protecting our children from dire mistreatment, where that mistreatment is profitable.
Hilary's campaign has already jumped on this. Let's see if she's willing to swear off money from any of the beneficiaries of this system.
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:33 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yes.
This is a correspondence so corrupt and full of malice that any company caught doing it should pay a huge price in perception and prestige. Sadly, we're a huge distance away from that kind of ethical clarity even in the basic goal of protecting our children from dire mistreatment, where that mistreatment is profitable.
Hilary's campaign has already jumped on this. Let's see if she's willing to swear off money from any of the beneficiaries of this system.
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:33 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Always interesting how some people can simultaneously hold "The government can't tell ME what to do!" and "They need to obey authority!" in their heads at the same time, without ever reflecting on it.
posted by naju at 1:46 PM on October 27, 2015 [47 favorites]
posted by naju at 1:46 PM on October 27, 2015 [47 favorites]
"The bottom line is, Don, this is a young girl. This is a girl in school. There is no justification for using that kind of force. Whether or not that force is justifiable is the issue, and the force is not justifiable. She is sitting there, she is not resisting, she is sitting there in a chair. That is unreasonable force, that is excessive force, and it’s assault."
Thank you, Sunny Hostin, Former Federal Prosecutor
posted by jammy at 1:50 PM on October 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
Thank you, Sunny Hostin, Former Federal Prosecutor
posted by jammy at 1:50 PM on October 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
I used to jump on my table and yell "Itchy butt!" and scratch my ass every time my high school teachers turned their back. Fortunately for me I am white and grew up in Canada so I got a few detentions, a couple of calls home and some talking to out in the hall and ultimately one visit to see the vice principal. My butt is still itchy but I only shout about it on the internet now.
posted by srboisvert at 1:50 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 1:50 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
Point blank, students have a right to learn without assholes interfering in class repeatedly.Unfortunately the assholes are armed and legally allowed to be there.
posted by fullerine at 1:50 PM on October 27, 2015 [15 favorites]
This started because the girl was chewing gum. The teacher has reportedly said that the girl should have obeyed if she didn't want what happened to happen. If true, that teacher needs to go back to humanity training, because he done forgot how to be one.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 1:53 PM on October 27, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 1:53 PM on October 27, 2015 [14 favorites]
Also, please note the difference, by the same police force, in how they treated the kid who murdered a prayer group, in that he was pampered and coddled and fed, and this treatment of a black child who had the audacity to chew gum and thumb her nose at a bully.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 1:55 PM on October 27, 2015 [32 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 1:55 PM on October 27, 2015 [32 favorites]
I am puzzled why the teacher was not able to handle this situation? Surely, this is not the first misbehaving student the teacher has had to deal with? Why was the attention of the principal and a cop required to deal with a student not paying attention in class? When a student wasted my dad's time in class (he taught high school chem.) he just told the student to leave his class room. Don't teachers in the US system have this option or are they not allowed to kick kids out for a day?
Also given the outcome of this incident I wonder what the teacher will do next time he has a mouthy student?
posted by Gwynarra at 2:03 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also given the outcome of this incident I wonder what the teacher will do next time he has a mouthy student?
posted by Gwynarra at 2:03 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
Always interesting how some people can simultaneously hold "The government can't tell ME what to do!" and "They need to obey authority!" in their heads at the same time, without ever reflecting on it.
Authoritarianism for thee but not for me, as it were.
posted by Xavier Xavier at 2:05 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
Authoritarianism for thee but not for me, as it were.
posted by Xavier Xavier at 2:05 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
Some people just shouldn't work as cops.
posted by Catblack at 2:06 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Catblack at 2:06 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, please note the difference, by the same police force, in how they treated the kid who murdered a prayer group, in that he was pampered and coddled and fed, and this treatment of a black child who had the audacity to chew gum and thumb her nose at a bully.
Was this handled by state or county police, then? Because Charleston and Columbia are a little over a hundred miles apart.
posted by palomar at 2:10 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
Was this handled by state or county police, then? Because Charleston and Columbia are a little over a hundred miles apart.
posted by palomar at 2:10 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
Some people just shouldn't work as cops.
Most people shouldn't work as cops. That includes a lot of our current police force. Being a cop is a tough job. It's stressful. You probably deal with traumatic situations more than any other profession except maybe doctors. So we need to make sure the people hired for those jobs are mentally stable/not overly aggressive/can handle stress/etc. But we don't seem to be doing that. Any nut capable of passing the test is allowed to get a badge and a gun.
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:13 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
Most people shouldn't work as cops. That includes a lot of our current police force. Being a cop is a tough job. It's stressful. You probably deal with traumatic situations more than any other profession except maybe doctors. So we need to make sure the people hired for those jobs are mentally stable/not overly aggressive/can handle stress/etc. But we don't seem to be doing that. Any nut capable of passing the test is allowed to get a badge and a gun.
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:13 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
It would be interesting to know how many candidates police departments wash out for personality issues vs. the military services, although police department statistics as often (intentionally?) sparsely available and difficult to compare.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:16 PM on October 27, 2015
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:16 PM on October 27, 2015
It's just this time, there's incontrovertible video, not simply a verbal description that can and will be dismissed by the authorities, the press and the privileged.
Yeah. And then there are some comments on the NY Times article that are all like But but but we didn't see what happened *before* the video!!! Which just goes to show that if you are dead set on victim-blaming, then by golly you will victim-blame.
I would hate to have a look at the comments on the NY Post.
posted by the_blizz at 2:18 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah. And then there are some comments on the NY Times article that are all like But but but we didn't see what happened *before* the video!!! Which just goes to show that if you are dead set on victim-blaming, then by golly you will victim-blame.
I would hate to have a look at the comments on the NY Post.
posted by the_blizz at 2:18 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
The sheriff's new defense: A third video not released shows "the student hitting the School Resources Officer with her fists"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:23 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:23 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
...because if a man man twice your size flips you over and assaults you, you should just take it.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:24 PM on October 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:24 PM on October 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
Maybe she was looking at her phone because she was freaking out that a cop got called because she was chewing gum and was sort of frozen and embarrassed and scared?
That's probably what I would do.
posted by zutalors! at 2:28 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
That's probably what I would do.
posted by zutalors! at 2:28 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
Sheriff Lott: Officer in video “has been dating an African American female" for some time
It—it.. the f—, it—flame… flames… flames on the side of my face
posted by nadawi at 2:33 PM on October 27, 2015 [46 favorites]
It—it.. the f—, it—flame… flames… flames on the side of my face
posted by nadawi at 2:33 PM on October 27, 2015 [46 favorites]
(I realize that there's probably another live thread about this other case somewhere else - because there are *so* damn many of them - but for those of you saying that this cop will probably get away with it:
Official: No Charges For Cop Who Fatally Shot Teen Returning From First Date.
At this point, is it even a question?)
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:38 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
Official: No Charges For Cop Who Fatally Shot Teen Returning From First Date.
At this point, is it even a question?)
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:38 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
Sheriff Lott: Officer in video “has been dating an African American female" for some time
Christ. I can only imagine what he does to her.
posted by naju at 2:39 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
Christ. I can only imagine what he does to her.
posted by naju at 2:39 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
Sheriff Lott: Officer in video “has been dating an African American female" for some time
I've been silent thus far, being a black woman with black daughters...but this...this...
aw shit, let me just shut the fuck up again, lest i be accused of playing the angry black female...
posted by ramix at 2:39 PM on October 27, 2015 [30 favorites]
I've been silent thus far, being a black woman with black daughters...but this...this...
aw shit, let me just shut the fuck up again, lest i be accused of playing the angry black female...
posted by ramix at 2:39 PM on October 27, 2015 [30 favorites]
...and when you consider the domestic violence rate among cops and consider how this asshole responds to having his authority threatened...i'm sick just thinking about it.
posted by nadawi at 2:42 PM on October 27, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 2:42 PM on October 27, 2015 [14 favorites]
mrjohnmuller: "I once organized my classroom in a strike to protest the fact that our bathroom priviliges were being cut-back. At the agreed upon time, we all put our heads down on our desks and refused to work or speak until our demands were met. That's about as disruptive as you can get, right? Guess who wasn't punished in any measurable way, save for a barely-stern talking to from an obviously amused principal, and a vague threat that the petition I circulated would go into my "permanent record". If my actions had been met instead with the brutal violence this child received, what would I have learned, I wonder?"
No disrepsect, but no, that's not even remotely as disruptive as you can get. That's a peaceful protest, and while you "disrupted" the teaching, that's really not what they're talking about when they talk about "disrupting the classroom." I've seen situations where, for example, a big 18-year-old boy grabbed the ass of a small female teacher in her 20s, made an extremely vulgar sexual remark, and when she told him to leave the room, towered over her and backed her up against the wall while threatening sexual violence. I saw a situation where a (very high) student stripped naked in the middle of class while shrieking obscenities. I saw a (really pretty funny) situation where a student replied to every statement with the word "fuck" at increasing volume until he was just shouting "FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK" over all attempts to calmly interact with him to make him stop. (I mean, he got suspended and all, but I laughed when I read the disciplinary report and he got a minimum, pro-forma suspension.) NONE of these situations would warrant physical violence against a student, although the student assaulting his teacher would warrant physical restraint to remove him if he refused to cooperate.
As school board members we often attended student strikes and walk-outs because we liked to encourage that sort of peaceful democratic action and we wanted the students to know we took them seriously. In that sort of situation teachers are sometimes somewhat annoyed at loss of instructional time, but mostly the school staff is proud the kids have strong opinions on school issues and are organizing about them, and the principal's big concern is that nobody get run over and no fights erupt. (Our kids did walkouts more than strikes; our general practice was to let it go on for 15 or 20 minutes to make sure they got their media coverage and a few of them got to do interviews for the evening news, and then to ask them if they would return to class, which, having made their point and being the kids who care a lot about their education, they generally did.)
This cop's reaction is literally crazy; if he were a city cop our board would have taken out a actual restraining order if his commanding officer didn't suspend him right away. If he were a school-employed cop (unusual, but we had them) he would already be on leave pending a dismissal action and we would be daring the union to defend this jackass. (Under the last union leadership, they would have, and it took us having a cop on leave for SEVEN YEARS to get him finally fired for beating a student with a nightstick; under the current union leadership they'd be like, "No, we're cool, here's a pro-forma letter demanding you follow legal procedure in firing him but we are super not interested in defending this.")
I have seen videos similar to this involving cops, teachers, bus drivers, and one-on-one attendants; you guys may not realize how much video recording ALREADY goes on in public areas of schools (especially hallways and gyms and buses; not as much classrooms unless they serve specific troubled populations). The general public does not see these videos because typically they are protected by the student's privacy rights under FERPA. (We always, always turned requests for those videos -- typically from local media -- over to judges as quickly as possible. Judges rarely allow them to be released, because the students' families rarely want them released.)
Our typical response to a situation like this would be immediate suspension (with or without pay sort-of depends on the union contract, but it might be with pay until the next board meeting when it can be voted into without pay) to be followed by a rapid dismissal proceeding; turning the evidence over to local prosecutors and DCFS and asking them to pursue a child abuse investigation and prosecution; and instructing our insurer to settle the resulting civil rights claims if the student files a civil suit (at a reasonable payout according to state standards), as we were generally not interested in a defending a lawsuit where our employee was BEATING A STUDENT. Our response to a student filming it would be a combination of a minor whiff of "ugh, liability" and a major sense of "THANK GOD someone got us clear evidence against this guy." (I feel like we would mandatorily have had to reprimand the student with cell phone video, which would probably be like our dean of students meeting with the student and his parents and going, "Joey, I am obligated to remind you that you are forbidden from recording video of other students in the classroom, here is a letter for your file. On a related note, THANK YOU for recording video of this horrifying civil rights violation and doing the right thing by making it public, and here is a letter signed by all our board members thanking you for your courage in speaking out and coming forward, we'll put that in your file too.")
Our district has started to move away from hiring school resource officers who are cops and take some special social work/school training, towards hiring social workers willing to go to cop school, because we're just getting better results training social workers used to working with troubled kids in cop techniques than training cops used to dealing with violent criminal adults in social work techniques. Also, a cop carrying a gun in a public school is usually -- but not quite always -- a city or county cop who is assigned to the school, and usually called a truant officer. School resource officers are usually school employees and typically do not carry a weapon. This is not universal, but typical. Truant officers are often quite good because they are more senior officers who specifically want to work with children and do special advanced working-with-kids training, but sometimes it's just some jackass who thinks it's a cherry assignment and doesn't give a shit. Truant officers, with special training and a specific desire to work with kids, are generally perceived as "better" than school resource officers, who were traditionally viewed as low-end rent-a-cops with Napoleon complexes, but that mentality is changing and school resource officers are getting a lot more sophisticated and better-trained ... in social work and counseling and deescalation. A lot of officers don't want to be called school resource officers because of the rent-a-cop connotations -- but again, I think that's changing. There's also a shitload of baggage around whether cops should wear khakis and polo shirts rather than uniforms in schools ... I have a LOT of opinions on how cops in schools should work and a LOT of stories about the toxic stew of men with unearned authority and children challenging authority and why this turns into drawn-out union disputes about polo shirts.
If have seen worse videos of violence against students by school authorities, but not much worse. (And maybe only worse because the child was very small in the one I'm thinking of.) Watching these videos was possibly the single worst part of serving on the school board; I had to remind myself that I was being entrusted by the community with the responsibility to review these incidents and ensure that violent or predatory adults were removed from contact with children. But it was hard and it sucked and it was frequently extremely upsetting.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:45 PM on October 27, 2015 [107 favorites]
No disrepsect, but no, that's not even remotely as disruptive as you can get. That's a peaceful protest, and while you "disrupted" the teaching, that's really not what they're talking about when they talk about "disrupting the classroom." I've seen situations where, for example, a big 18-year-old boy grabbed the ass of a small female teacher in her 20s, made an extremely vulgar sexual remark, and when she told him to leave the room, towered over her and backed her up against the wall while threatening sexual violence. I saw a situation where a (very high) student stripped naked in the middle of class while shrieking obscenities. I saw a (really pretty funny) situation where a student replied to every statement with the word "fuck" at increasing volume until he was just shouting "FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK" over all attempts to calmly interact with him to make him stop. (I mean, he got suspended and all, but I laughed when I read the disciplinary report and he got a minimum, pro-forma suspension.) NONE of these situations would warrant physical violence against a student, although the student assaulting his teacher would warrant physical restraint to remove him if he refused to cooperate.
As school board members we often attended student strikes and walk-outs because we liked to encourage that sort of peaceful democratic action and we wanted the students to know we took them seriously. In that sort of situation teachers are sometimes somewhat annoyed at loss of instructional time, but mostly the school staff is proud the kids have strong opinions on school issues and are organizing about them, and the principal's big concern is that nobody get run over and no fights erupt. (Our kids did walkouts more than strikes; our general practice was to let it go on for 15 or 20 minutes to make sure they got their media coverage and a few of them got to do interviews for the evening news, and then to ask them if they would return to class, which, having made their point and being the kids who care a lot about their education, they generally did.)
This cop's reaction is literally crazy; if he were a city cop our board would have taken out a actual restraining order if his commanding officer didn't suspend him right away. If he were a school-employed cop (unusual, but we had them) he would already be on leave pending a dismissal action and we would be daring the union to defend this jackass. (Under the last union leadership, they would have, and it took us having a cop on leave for SEVEN YEARS to get him finally fired for beating a student with a nightstick; under the current union leadership they'd be like, "No, we're cool, here's a pro-forma letter demanding you follow legal procedure in firing him but we are super not interested in defending this.")
I have seen videos similar to this involving cops, teachers, bus drivers, and one-on-one attendants; you guys may not realize how much video recording ALREADY goes on in public areas of schools (especially hallways and gyms and buses; not as much classrooms unless they serve specific troubled populations). The general public does not see these videos because typically they are protected by the student's privacy rights under FERPA. (We always, always turned requests for those videos -- typically from local media -- over to judges as quickly as possible. Judges rarely allow them to be released, because the students' families rarely want them released.)
Our typical response to a situation like this would be immediate suspension (with or without pay sort-of depends on the union contract, but it might be with pay until the next board meeting when it can be voted into without pay) to be followed by a rapid dismissal proceeding; turning the evidence over to local prosecutors and DCFS and asking them to pursue a child abuse investigation and prosecution; and instructing our insurer to settle the resulting civil rights claims if the student files a civil suit (at a reasonable payout according to state standards), as we were generally not interested in a defending a lawsuit where our employee was BEATING A STUDENT. Our response to a student filming it would be a combination of a minor whiff of "ugh, liability" and a major sense of "THANK GOD someone got us clear evidence against this guy." (I feel like we would mandatorily have had to reprimand the student with cell phone video, which would probably be like our dean of students meeting with the student and his parents and going, "Joey, I am obligated to remind you that you are forbidden from recording video of other students in the classroom, here is a letter for your file. On a related note, THANK YOU for recording video of this horrifying civil rights violation and doing the right thing by making it public, and here is a letter signed by all our board members thanking you for your courage in speaking out and coming forward, we'll put that in your file too.")
Our district has started to move away from hiring school resource officers who are cops and take some special social work/school training, towards hiring social workers willing to go to cop school, because we're just getting better results training social workers used to working with troubled kids in cop techniques than training cops used to dealing with violent criminal adults in social work techniques. Also, a cop carrying a gun in a public school is usually -- but not quite always -- a city or county cop who is assigned to the school, and usually called a truant officer. School resource officers are usually school employees and typically do not carry a weapon. This is not universal, but typical. Truant officers are often quite good because they are more senior officers who specifically want to work with children and do special advanced working-with-kids training, but sometimes it's just some jackass who thinks it's a cherry assignment and doesn't give a shit. Truant officers, with special training and a specific desire to work with kids, are generally perceived as "better" than school resource officers, who were traditionally viewed as low-end rent-a-cops with Napoleon complexes, but that mentality is changing and school resource officers are getting a lot more sophisticated and better-trained ... in social work and counseling and deescalation. A lot of officers don't want to be called school resource officers because of the rent-a-cop connotations -- but again, I think that's changing. There's also a shitload of baggage around whether cops should wear khakis and polo shirts rather than uniforms in schools ... I have a LOT of opinions on how cops in schools should work and a LOT of stories about the toxic stew of men with unearned authority and children challenging authority and why this turns into drawn-out union disputes about polo shirts.
If have seen worse videos of violence against students by school authorities, but not much worse. (And maybe only worse because the child was very small in the one I'm thinking of.) Watching these videos was possibly the single worst part of serving on the school board; I had to remind myself that I was being entrusted by the community with the responsibility to review these incidents and ensure that violent or predatory adults were removed from contact with children. But it was hard and it sucked and it was frequently extremely upsetting.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:45 PM on October 27, 2015 [107 favorites]
Sheriff Lott: Officer in video “has been dating an African American female" for some time
I married a Jewish girl. It doesn't mean I can go around Boston beating the shit out of them.
posted by Talez at 2:45 PM on October 27, 2015 [11 favorites]
I married a Jewish girl. It doesn't mean I can go around Boston beating the shit out of them.
posted by Talez at 2:45 PM on October 27, 2015 [11 favorites]
I've been silent thus far, being a black woman with black daughters...but this...this...
aw shit, let me just shut the fuck up again, lest i be accused of playing the angry black female...
Please don't. This society needs to spend more time listening to angry black women, and less time laughing at 'sassy' black women.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:45 PM on October 27, 2015 [15 favorites]
aw shit, let me just shut the fuck up again, lest i be accused of playing the angry black female...
Please don't. This society needs to spend more time listening to angry black women, and less time laughing at 'sassy' black women.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:45 PM on October 27, 2015 [15 favorites]
No disrepsect, but no, that's not even remotely as disruptive as you can get. That's a peaceful protest, and while you "disrupted" the teaching, that's really not what they're talking about when they talk about "disrupting the classroom." I've seen situations where, for example, a big 18-year-old boy grabbed the ass of a small female teacher in her 20s, made an extremely vulgar sexual remark, and when she told him to leave the room, towered over her and backed her up against the wall while threatening sexual violence. I saw a situation where a (very high) student stripped naked in the middle of class while shrieking obscenities. I saw a (really pretty funny) situation where a student replied to every statement with the word "fuck" at increasing volume until he was just shouting "FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK" over all attempts to calmly interact with him to make him stop. (I mean, he got suspended and all, but I laughed when I read the disciplinary report and he got a minimum, pro-forma suspension.) NONE of these situations would warrant physical violence against a student, although the student assaulting his teacher would warrant physical restraint to remove him if he refused to cooperate.
Most of this conduct is otherwise illegal without resort to a law against being 'obnoxious' at school, which is such a vague legal standard that it should be Constitutionally unthinkable.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:49 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Most of this conduct is otherwise illegal without resort to a law against being 'obnoxious' at school, which is such a vague legal standard that it should be Constitutionally unthinkable.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:49 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
boo_radley: "I don't want to get down in the weeds too much, but that statute makes things unlawful and declares them misdemeanors.So right there, I guess?"
This is an unusually bad statute, but in general, there's been a dramatic increase in zero-tolerance laws (for drugs, weapons, "assaulting a teacher") relating to schools that make lots of reporting to police mandatory; increases in willingness to charge minors as adults and more laws that allow that; vastly increased rhetoric around violence in schools ... and of course schools starved of funding who don't have the personnel or money to handle as many students as they have. It creates this set of perverse incentives where we had principals not reporting, say, a fist-fight between two kids because in their professional opinion it was a one-time event that had blown over and would not recur, but if they reported it as a disciplinary event, the cops get involved because it's "assault" and if there's three kids in the fist-fight it's "mob violence" -- I'm not even kidding. So you have kids NOT getting suspended for fighting because there's no way to suspend them without involving the juvenile justice system or -- if they're over about 15 -- risking the possibility the DA's feeling frisky and wants to try them as adults. Sometimes a principal is informed by a runner about disciplinary situation and will say to a staff member, "I need you to go intervene in this situation but don't use the radio." Because the school cop will hear and be obligated to make an official report if he hears it on the radio.
But yeah, criminalization of students acting in immature ways in school is a major and serious problem, and the mandatory criminalization of it is even worse, because it really limits your options for intervening with troubled students who need help.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:52 PM on October 27, 2015 [35 favorites]
This is an unusually bad statute, but in general, there's been a dramatic increase in zero-tolerance laws (for drugs, weapons, "assaulting a teacher") relating to schools that make lots of reporting to police mandatory; increases in willingness to charge minors as adults and more laws that allow that; vastly increased rhetoric around violence in schools ... and of course schools starved of funding who don't have the personnel or money to handle as many students as they have. It creates this set of perverse incentives where we had principals not reporting, say, a fist-fight between two kids because in their professional opinion it was a one-time event that had blown over and would not recur, but if they reported it as a disciplinary event, the cops get involved because it's "assault" and if there's three kids in the fist-fight it's "mob violence" -- I'm not even kidding. So you have kids NOT getting suspended for fighting because there's no way to suspend them without involving the juvenile justice system or -- if they're over about 15 -- risking the possibility the DA's feeling frisky and wants to try them as adults. Sometimes a principal is informed by a runner about disciplinary situation and will say to a staff member, "I need you to go intervene in this situation but don't use the radio." Because the school cop will hear and be obligated to make an official report if he hears it on the radio.
But yeah, criminalization of students acting in immature ways in school is a major and serious problem, and the mandatory criminalization of it is even worse, because it really limits your options for intervening with troubled students who need help.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:52 PM on October 27, 2015 [35 favorites]
"Teen girl in classrm thrown around like rag doll.Every1 on TV saying“we can’t see what she did b4 video”Who gives a flying Fk‼️She’s a CHILD" —Cher
All kneel. Praise Cher.
posted by jammy at 2:57 PM on October 27, 2015 [20 favorites]
All kneel. Praise Cher.
posted by jammy at 2:57 PM on October 27, 2015 [20 favorites]
@Eyebrows: that is horrifying that there is no way for the principal / teacher to discipline students without involving police.
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:59 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:59 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
So I went to this high school and graduated in 2003. Things were so miserable - aggressions, both micro- and not-so-micro - that three or four friends, their parents, and I met with the superintendent about our "concerns." We had complaints about specific teachers and specific comments as well as criticism of some fairly blatant racist policy-making and -enacting. By some strange coincidence, for example, all of the elected student officials were black, while all of the appointed officials were white. Interesting.
Anyway, they made a big show of listening to us - I think we seemed credible because we had parents with us and were "high achievers" - but two weeks later sent a letter denying our claims and our experience of racism. Apparently the "investigation" we had prompted consisted of asking two white students their opinion (as well as the white teachers we had complained about). So, obviously, SV has been racism-free since 2003.
Anyway one of those friends posted in the alumni group on Facebook, which I made the mistake of clicking on. He's fighting the good fight, but my god, those commenters are just incredibly gross. I'm not surprised that they are, you know, claiming it's not a racial issue and that the student was "hardly an innocent" and whatnot, but Jesus, it's disheartening to actually have to remember what it's like down there.
posted by ohkay at 3:04 PM on October 27, 2015 [52 favorites]
Anyway, they made a big show of listening to us - I think we seemed credible because we had parents with us and were "high achievers" - but two weeks later sent a letter denying our claims and our experience of racism. Apparently the "investigation" we had prompted consisted of asking two white students their opinion (as well as the white teachers we had complained about). So, obviously, SV has been racism-free since 2003.
Anyway one of those friends posted in the alumni group on Facebook, which I made the mistake of clicking on. He's fighting the good fight, but my god, those commenters are just incredibly gross. I'm not surprised that they are, you know, claiming it's not a racial issue and that the student was "hardly an innocent" and whatnot, but Jesus, it's disheartening to actually have to remember what it's like down there.
posted by ohkay at 3:04 PM on October 27, 2015 [52 favorites]
roomthreeseventeen: "The sheriff's new defense: A third video not released shows "the student hitting the School Resources Officer with her fists""
I know you guys all know this, but this is a stupid defense; this is still a fireable offense and the cop does not follow even the most basic rules for restraining a violent "perp," let alone a minor student. Almost certainly he's supposed to attempt de-escalation with the student before restraint, which he didn't do at all; and the rules for restraining minors are more complicated than adults, and there generally has to be a written report afterwards detailing the restraint situation -- I'm not sure if that's state law or just good practice, though. But if you're going to restrain minors and NOT get hit with a civil rights lawsuit, you're going to have to document and you're going to have to do it properly. There is literally no defense this cop could have given me that would have allowed him to keep his job, even if this student had been violently attacking him (which she was clearly not). There is no evidence he follows ANY appropriate procedure at all, nothing that even say "okay, that was a bad judgment call." No, you just did not do your job EVEN A LITTLE.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:10 PM on October 27, 2015 [32 favorites]
I know you guys all know this, but this is a stupid defense; this is still a fireable offense and the cop does not follow even the most basic rules for restraining a violent "perp," let alone a minor student. Almost certainly he's supposed to attempt de-escalation with the student before restraint, which he didn't do at all; and the rules for restraining minors are more complicated than adults, and there generally has to be a written report afterwards detailing the restraint situation -- I'm not sure if that's state law or just good practice, though. But if you're going to restrain minors and NOT get hit with a civil rights lawsuit, you're going to have to document and you're going to have to do it properly. There is literally no defense this cop could have given me that would have allowed him to keep his job, even if this student had been violently attacking him (which she was clearly not). There is no evidence he follows ANY appropriate procedure at all, nothing that even say "okay, that was a bad judgment call." No, you just did not do your job EVEN A LITTLE.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:10 PM on October 27, 2015 [32 favorites]
"You must comply." That's the mentality.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:13 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:13 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
There is literally no defense this cop could have given me that would have allowed him to keep his job, even if this student had been violently attacking him (which she was clearly not). There is no evidence he follows ANY appropriate procedure at all, nothing that even say "okay, that was a bad judgment call." No, you just did not do your job EVEN A LITTLE.
Thank you, Eyebrows McGee.
posted by jammy at 3:13 PM on October 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
Thank you, Eyebrows McGee.
posted by jammy at 3:13 PM on October 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
I heard someone make a comment today that made me just sad for society. I said that flipping someone like that could have broken her neck or given her a concussion. He responded asking if the news say she was hurt? I said I do not think so. The response was a callous "well then, what's the problem?"
Are we to the point where we should only be mildly concerned when fatality occurs from obscene levels of force and abuse of power?
posted by Muncle at 3:15 PM on October 27, 2015 [10 favorites]
Are we to the point where we should only be mildly concerned when fatality occurs from obscene levels of force and abuse of power?
posted by Muncle at 3:15 PM on October 27, 2015 [10 favorites]
"I need you to go intervene in this situation but don't use the radio."
I know that the actual beating has already been labelled the work of fascist authoritarians, but forcing teachers and staff into this situation is all the proof you should need that the system itself is rotten to the core, despite any individual teacher or staff member's goodness.
(In fact based on my own experience -- or more accurately stories told by the many educators I'm lucky enough to count among my friends and family -- it's not despite these good individuals but because of them that the system is now stacked against them actually doing any good where it's most needed. )
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:18 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
I know that the actual beating has already been labelled the work of fascist authoritarians, but forcing teachers and staff into this situation is all the proof you should need that the system itself is rotten to the core, despite any individual teacher or staff member's goodness.
(In fact based on my own experience -- or more accurately stories told by the many educators I'm lucky enough to count among my friends and family -- it's not despite these good individuals but because of them that the system is now stacked against them actually doing any good where it's most needed. )
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:18 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
grumpybear69: " that is horrifying that there is no way for the principal / teacher to discipline students without involving police."
Only for certain kinds of offenses, but yeah -- it's really hard to deal with fighting, for example, without involving the cops.
Probably the most STUPID mandatory reporting offense I saw was an 8-year-old girl who brought her antibiotics to school to make sure to take one at lunch, whose parents spoke no English, whose "drug possession" triggered mandatory police involvement AND mandatory expulsion. The cop was like "omg this is the stupidest thing I have ever written a report on" and the school was like "technically you are expelled but we are going to suspend the expulsion so that as long as you don't get expelled again for the next six months it will be removed from your record and you don't have to miss any school or anything" and the parents were like "wow, we thought it was just like pot kids couldn't bring to school in this country but now we know it is also prescription drugs, good to know, will not happen again." It wasn't the WORST because the most negative consequence was a stupid waste of everyone's time, but it was incredibly stupid. "Zero tolerance" rules mostly are.
(The WORST mandatory reporting situation I saw involved a young elementary school student with an older sibling's switchblade and a couple of people acted like this was a child about to go on a rampage rather than a dumb kid imitating a sibling and resisted the efforts of the sane among us to NOT dump the kid in the criminal justice system. Details would be too personally identifiable I think because it made the news but I still have some white-hot rage about this.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:19 PM on October 27, 2015 [13 favorites]
Only for certain kinds of offenses, but yeah -- it's really hard to deal with fighting, for example, without involving the cops.
Probably the most STUPID mandatory reporting offense I saw was an 8-year-old girl who brought her antibiotics to school to make sure to take one at lunch, whose parents spoke no English, whose "drug possession" triggered mandatory police involvement AND mandatory expulsion. The cop was like "omg this is the stupidest thing I have ever written a report on" and the school was like "technically you are expelled but we are going to suspend the expulsion so that as long as you don't get expelled again for the next six months it will be removed from your record and you don't have to miss any school or anything" and the parents were like "wow, we thought it was just like pot kids couldn't bring to school in this country but now we know it is also prescription drugs, good to know, will not happen again." It wasn't the WORST because the most negative consequence was a stupid waste of everyone's time, but it was incredibly stupid. "Zero tolerance" rules mostly are.
(The WORST mandatory reporting situation I saw involved a young elementary school student with an older sibling's switchblade and a couple of people acted like this was a child about to go on a rampage rather than a dumb kid imitating a sibling and resisted the efforts of the sane among us to NOT dump the kid in the criminal justice system. Details would be too personally identifiable I think because it made the news but I still have some white-hot rage about this.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:19 PM on October 27, 2015 [13 favorites]
In my senior year I went to two schools. One was well known in the area for excellent schooling, and booted anyone who underperformed to their neighborhood school. Basically if you made good grades you could do whatever you wanted. Policies were very lax, and our resource officer was this large African American women who spent her time eating lunch with students and waving goodbye as we skipped class. (She would get mad if you did it regularly) She also would give a big hug in moments of high school relationship dispair.
The other school was a trade school. It was designed for low income kids who weren't going to college to learn trades that made money. I went for their free CCNA program (cisco networking) but they did everything from air conditioning repair to car detailing.
Uniforms were strictly enforced, my hair color at my main school was okay but not at the other. People were commonly stopped for infractions like an ID not facing outward or an untucked shirt. Gatherings were disrupted and people forced to move on quickly, there was no room to socialize with people outside your trade to find out what was going on. Everything was more strict and serious. I as a small white women probobly got away with more and I was completely out of touch from my safe white privalaged school culture.
This was within the same school district, which had the exact same policies and procedures. People were picked on for no reason and battles made out of nothing because someone wanted a kid to listen to them. The teachers acted like they were hearding cattle and the students responded to it.
I could easily see someone getting away with what happened in SC at the trade school. And it would just be an institutionalized part of the system.
It makes me sick.
posted by AlexiaSky at 3:20 PM on October 27, 2015 [16 favorites]
Alexia Sky: yep, totally. SV has both a science magnet program and a tech school that might as well be two different institutions. They were, when I was there, in two separate buildings. The only time I ever even saw most of the students there was in homeroom or detention - otherwise, I spent the whole day with about fifty of the same people in the honors track or whatever. This group was definitely a) not the same racial composition as the rest of the school and b) winked at when it came to minor infractions that would have been a DISCIPLINARY PROBLEM coming from other students. You definitely got the same sense of herding from teachers and administrators. Of course, to hear the other alums talk about it, SV has been a paragon of racial harmony and pedagogical excellence since the 70s...
posted by ohkay at 3:42 PM on October 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by ohkay at 3:42 PM on October 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
Of course we have armed police in our schools. We have decided, as a society, that escalation of armed conflict is not only acceptable, it is the expected and laudable outcome. We have armed ourselves and our children to the point that school shootings happen daily, and armed conflict is the ideal response.
So every conflict is now escalated, because we have to demonstrate that we are ever-vigilantly protecting our precious children.
Oh, wait ...
posted by Dashy at 4:20 PM on October 27, 2015
So every conflict is now escalated, because we have to demonstrate that we are ever-vigilantly protecting our precious children.
Oh, wait ...
posted by Dashy at 4:20 PM on October 27, 2015
In most of the world, there is little sense of a need to make someone comply with authority every time they encounter it. It is possible to de-escalate and implement appropriate sanctions, for authority to lose the battle and win the war. The idea that once a police officer (or other authority figure) has issued an instruction it must be carried out is an unexamined assumption that seems, to me, to do very little good.
A lot of times, at least on a site like this, the advice to comply instantly with police isn't advice based on that being the just thing to do. It's based on knowing that non-compliance will lead to almost certain arrest and very possible bodily harm or death. Not just for minorities either. Reforming the police respect-my-authoritah attitude is vitally important to fixing police in the US, but for now it can't be stated enough that non-compliance is extremely dangerous. Even if the reason for your non-compliance is you just had a stroke.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:23 PM on October 27, 2015 [12 favorites]
A lot of times, at least on a site like this, the advice to comply instantly with police isn't advice based on that being the just thing to do. It's based on knowing that non-compliance will lead to almost certain arrest and very possible bodily harm or death. Not just for minorities either. Reforming the police respect-my-authoritah attitude is vitally important to fixing police in the US, but for now it can't be stated enough that non-compliance is extremely dangerous. Even if the reason for your non-compliance is you just had a stroke.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:23 PM on October 27, 2015 [12 favorites]
One quibble with the first link here: "Zero-tolerance policies have been widely criticized when schools have interpreted "weapon" very broadly, expelling students for making guns with their fingers or chewing a Pop-Tart into a gun shape or bringing a camping fork for Cub Scouts to class."
As I understand it, that kid was suspended after a long history of behavioral issues and the suspension wasn't related to any pastry firearms. It's more a right wing outrage meme than anything based in reality.
Again, that's my understanding. I'm open to corrections.
posted by brundlefly at 4:30 PM on October 27, 2015
As I understand it, that kid was suspended after a long history of behavioral issues and the suspension wasn't related to any pastry firearms. It's more a right wing outrage meme than anything based in reality.
Again, that's my understanding. I'm open to corrections.
posted by brundlefly at 4:30 PM on October 27, 2015
Man, I am having intense SV/Columbia flashbacks right now. Happily, a white classmate has straight up denied my friend's experience ("I was there and it wasn't like that") in the alumni group, so now that's settled.
I remember was a lot of coded language about "those people," the "Democratic voters"; and I remember a white male college student explaining that he did not believe in interracial dating but that he would make an exception for me (thanks?); and I remember a poem written in tidy quatrains (by the student whose testimony would invalidate ours) about the "lazy" "sleeping" students in detention; and I remember a young white female teacher suggesting that the n-word was - simply phonetically, divorced from its meaning, as if that's a thing - a beautiful word, in the "cellar door" way; and I remember an old white female teacher who would only emerge to teach calculus to her honors classes because her "regular" classes scared her; and I remember that we woke up the day after we moved in with BB pellets splintering the front windows; and I remember my friend's family, who were Indian, hastily hanging a huge American flag from their front balcony post-9/11...
This shit is endemic and persistent.
posted by ohkay at 4:36 PM on October 27, 2015 [32 favorites]
I remember was a lot of coded language about "those people," the "Democratic voters"; and I remember a white male college student explaining that he did not believe in interracial dating but that he would make an exception for me (thanks?); and I remember a poem written in tidy quatrains (by the student whose testimony would invalidate ours) about the "lazy" "sleeping" students in detention; and I remember a young white female teacher suggesting that the n-word was - simply phonetically, divorced from its meaning, as if that's a thing - a beautiful word, in the "cellar door" way; and I remember an old white female teacher who would only emerge to teach calculus to her honors classes because her "regular" classes scared her; and I remember that we woke up the day after we moved in with BB pellets splintering the front windows; and I remember my friend's family, who were Indian, hastily hanging a huge American flag from their front balcony post-9/11...
This shit is endemic and persistent.
posted by ohkay at 4:36 PM on October 27, 2015 [32 favorites]
Again, that's my understanding. I'm open to corrections.
That's what the school said and it was upheld, but I'm not sure I really believe them.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:43 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
That's what the school said and it was upheld, but I'm not sure I really believe them.
In Anne Arundel, the boy’s disciplinary referral used the word “gun” four times, asserting that the child “chewed his cereal bar into the shape of a gun” and aimed it at other children. The document quoted the boy as yelling, “Look, I made a gun!” It cited classroom disruption as the primary reason for the suspension, and an administrator noted several previous incidents of disruptive behavior near the bottom of the form.I mean, if a seven year old with ADD (iirc) making meow sounds during snack time is enough for a suspension you have to wonder what the other disciplinary problems were. It sounds like a pretty thin defense to me and the gun overreaction in the wake of Sandy Hook still seems a lot more likely.
In Nussbaum’s opinion, dated June 26, he rejected arguments from the boy’s family that the school overreacted and that the suspension arose from a bias against guns. The father said he was told the day that the boy was suspended that it was for playing as if he had a gun, not for ongoing problems.
Nussbaum wrote: “As much as the parents want this case to be about a ‘gun,’ it is, rather, a case about classroom disruption from a student who has had a long history of disruptive behavior and for whom the school had attempted a list of other strategies and interventions before resorting to a suspension.”
Nussbaum said he was convinced that “had the student chewed his cereal bar into the shape of a cat and ran around the room, disrupting the classroom and making ‘meow’ cat sounds, the result would have been exactly the same.”
posted by Drinky Die at 4:43 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
People see what cops do--stuff which is so egregiously an illegal abuse of power like this incident, straight-up criminal assault--people see the abuse of power, the absolute freedom from consequences (because, worst-case, you get fired and then hired by wingnut welfare as head of security for Rightwing Racist Corporation or whatever). People long to be the "ahh-thor-rih-tay", to wield the "he-man" accouterments of the job (that you get to use). People see themselves in those roles, and like what they see--finally getting their god-given respect, for once; finally able to "wield justice". Which amounts to: beat up and kill "those people". Take graft, steal. Be a bully. And the best part: Everyone calls you sir and you're a fucking hero while you do that. Amazing!
For a certain type of person, the lure is irresistible; there is our police force. And for those that can't make even the minimal requirements to be a cop, they can live vicariously through those that do make it. Make no mistake: There are people who watch this video and like what they see.
And then there are the rest of us, terrified of "those people" and thinking if we just make everything we don't do (well, sure we do occasionally, but not as a lifestyle, not like them) illegal, maybe things will get better and the jobs will come back and we can be like our grandparents who only had to have one person working to have a new house and two cars and vacations--those things that the people on the radio and smart rich people and politicians and others in the know have made clear have been stolen from us by them.
I swear to my atheist god that's what I hear when reading attempts to defend this bullshit. And I say "we" because, like it or not, I'm a member of this society--and obviously not a large enough part because the fascists are winning.
posted by maxwelton at 4:49 PM on October 27, 2015 [16 favorites]
For a certain type of person, the lure is irresistible; there is our police force. And for those that can't make even the minimal requirements to be a cop, they can live vicariously through those that do make it. Make no mistake: There are people who watch this video and like what they see.
And then there are the rest of us, terrified of "those people" and thinking if we just make everything we don't do (well, sure we do occasionally, but not as a lifestyle, not like them) illegal, maybe things will get better and the jobs will come back and we can be like our grandparents who only had to have one person working to have a new house and two cars and vacations--those things that the people on the radio and smart rich people and politicians and others in the know have made clear have been stolen from us by them.
I swear to my atheist god that's what I hear when reading attempts to defend this bullshit. And I say "we" because, like it or not, I'm a member of this society--and obviously not a large enough part because the fascists are winning.
posted by maxwelton at 4:49 PM on October 27, 2015 [16 favorites]
if the resource officer had only shouted "stop resisting! stop trying to take my gun!" while flipping her over he'd be free and clear. obviously he was untrained.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:57 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:57 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
I remember a young white female teacher suggesting that the n-word was - simply phonetically, divorced from its meaning, as if that's a thing - a beautiful word
What the actual fuck? If ever there is a word that cannot be divorced from its meaning, it's that one.
posted by zachlipton at 5:02 PM on October 27, 2015 [9 favorites]
What the actual fuck? If ever there is a word that cannot be divorced from its meaning, it's that one.
posted by zachlipton at 5:02 PM on October 27, 2015 [9 favorites]
The local news is saying that Officer Fields has been placed on unpaid leave, which some people say is a precursor to him getting fired.
I'll believe that when I see it.
posted by mephron at 5:19 PM on October 27, 2015
I'll believe that when I see it.
posted by mephron at 5:19 PM on October 27, 2015
18-year-old Niya Kenny tells ABC Columbia it all started when the teacher asked the student to stop chewing gum. Kenny was booked into Alvin S. Glenn Detention Center.
The fuck?!? Like at some point don't sane people ever stop, look at the situation and think "This is fucked up. We should probably stop it right now, settle with the student and cut our losses"?
posted by Talez at 5:24 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
The fuck?!? Like at some point don't sane people ever stop, look at the situation and think "This is fucked up. We should probably stop it right now, settle with the student and cut our losses"?
posted by Talez at 5:24 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
via Reuters: FBI opens probe of violent arrest of black South Carolina student
posted by Hairy Lobster at 5:32 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Hairy Lobster at 5:32 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
The fuck?!? Like at some point don't sane people ever stop, look at the situation and think "This is fucked up. We should probably stop it right now, settle with the student and cut our losses"?
I mean, it reads like a bizarro sadistic movie.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:36 PM on October 27, 2015
I mean, it reads like a bizarro sadistic movie.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:36 PM on October 27, 2015
@ShaunKing: This IS the actual video where police said the young girl punches the officer and he is forced to defend himself.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:48 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:48 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
That video does not reveal something which could be factually established real easy. What is the cop's height and weight and the student's height and weight?. If he is 6-2, 240 and she is 5-2, 120 an aggressive prosecutor could charge him with a really nasty felony, like assault with a deadly weapon or attempted murder. Are there any relevant legal details where an assailant is in really deep shit when they are picking on somebody who is not even near their own size?
posted by bukvich at 5:49 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by bukvich at 5:49 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
"He's known as Officer Slam around our school. I've heard he's slammed pregnant women, teenage girls. He's known for... slamming."
posted by naju at 5:51 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by naju at 5:51 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
The few reports about this incident that I've seen which mention the teacher by name ID him as Robert Long, who appears to be white. Was there another teacher involved?
Apologies if I got this wrong. There's a black man in a dress shirt and tie in this video. I thought he was the teacher, but maybe he's the principal or other administrator.
posted by longdaysjourney at 5:57 PM on October 27, 2015
Apologies if I got this wrong. There's a black man in a dress shirt and tie in this video. I thought he was the teacher, but maybe he's the principal or other administrator.
posted by longdaysjourney at 5:57 PM on October 27, 2015
I went to school with any number of unpleasant fellow students. Some of them were mentally ill and violent. One dragged me out of a desk as she was choking me. One fit young male teacher and two less fit middle - aged female teachers restrained her and dragged her off me.
The cops were called AFTER she was in the office. The cops got an ambulance for her and she was taken for psychiatric evaluation. By the way, she was Black. I'm White with some Native American. She was from the Projects. I was from a middle -class, apartment dwelling family.
In this day and age, I believe that girl would have been tasered silly and then shot dead.
EVERYONE, my 13 year old self included GOT that this girl had a mental problem. She was thin, very pretty, very smart and very polished, but she had a mental problem.
After her time being evaluated, she did not return to my school.
She certainly shook things up way worse than a kid with a cell - phone. She could have killed me, but no one tried to kill her. I went limp. I did it hoping the dead weight would make her drop me. I also was too surprised to react any other way.
People are beaten half to death, even to death for far less than what she did to me.
Something HAS changed.
I don't believe in forcing kids to hand over things other than a gun, a knife, drugs...
What if the teacher forgets to give it back? There goes your lifeline on the way home.
I'm not sure I could face having kids in school these days.
Resource officers aren't necessarily bad people. I think though if you get control - freaks around young people and there is no check on them it's not going to end well.
Even Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Soviet Union did not have police right in the schools.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 6:12 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
The cops were called AFTER she was in the office. The cops got an ambulance for her and she was taken for psychiatric evaluation. By the way, she was Black. I'm White with some Native American. She was from the Projects. I was from a middle -class, apartment dwelling family.
In this day and age, I believe that girl would have been tasered silly and then shot dead.
EVERYONE, my 13 year old self included GOT that this girl had a mental problem. She was thin, very pretty, very smart and very polished, but she had a mental problem.
After her time being evaluated, she did not return to my school.
She certainly shook things up way worse than a kid with a cell - phone. She could have killed me, but no one tried to kill her. I went limp. I did it hoping the dead weight would make her drop me. I also was too surprised to react any other way.
People are beaten half to death, even to death for far less than what she did to me.
Something HAS changed.
I don't believe in forcing kids to hand over things other than a gun, a knife, drugs...
What if the teacher forgets to give it back? There goes your lifeline on the way home.
I'm not sure I could face having kids in school these days.
Resource officers aren't necessarily bad people. I think though if you get control - freaks around young people and there is no check on them it's not going to end well.
Even Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Soviet Union did not have police right in the schools.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 6:12 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
@ShaunKing: This IS the actual video where police said the young girl punches the officer and he is forced to defend himself.
What, when she tries to get her arm out of his grip? A jury will laugh at the claim that it is a punch. Even one inclined to believe police.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:15 PM on October 27, 2015
What, when she tries to get her arm out of his grip? A jury will laugh at the claim that it is a punch. Even one inclined to believe police.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:15 PM on October 27, 2015
yeah, no, never bet against a jury siding with a cop regardless of how horrible they are, have you not been paying attention at all
posted by palomar at 6:17 PM on October 27, 2015 [28 favorites]
posted by palomar at 6:17 PM on October 27, 2015 [28 favorites]
I have been paying attention. That is so clearly not a punch even pro cop bias will not make it one. Now, if they had just called it resisting maybe they have something, but they aren't going to be able to sell it as a threat to the officer's safety.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:23 PM on October 27, 2015
posted by Drinky Die at 6:23 PM on October 27, 2015
they aren't going to be able to sell it as a threat to the officer's safety.
They'll be able to, once they reveal that she was high on marijuana and acting erratically/dangerously. When the facts are against you, you turn it into a trial of the victim. Isn't this all depressingly predictable by now...
posted by naju at 6:36 PM on October 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
They'll be able to, once they reveal that she was high on marijuana and acting erratically/dangerously. When the facts are against you, you turn it into a trial of the victim. Isn't this all depressingly predictable by now...
posted by naju at 6:36 PM on October 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
it's already been sold and bought by so many people. just wander into twitter or comment sections under stories. see the abuse being hurled at the kids who were in the class and spoke up. i saw the punching story being passed as absolutely unimpeachable fact before it was even mentioned in the press conference.
posted by nadawi at 6:39 PM on October 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 6:39 PM on October 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
Okay well, when that holds up as a punch in court I'll do a mea culpa.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:54 PM on October 27, 2015
posted by Drinky Die at 6:54 PM on October 27, 2015
SC cop caught in school attack being sued for ‘recklessly’ accusing black students of gang activity
Welcome to 2015, Where the South Carolina Classroom Video Looks Familiar
posted by homunculus at 6:55 PM on October 27, 2015
Welcome to 2015, Where the South Carolina Classroom Video Looks Familiar
posted by homunculus at 6:55 PM on October 27, 2015
well, first he has to be arrested for this assault. i'm guessing we won't get that far.
posted by nadawi at 6:59 PM on October 27, 2015
posted by nadawi at 6:59 PM on October 27, 2015
It amazes me that MSM is now tweeting things like this girl was "striking" and "punching" the officer, as if she was doing so from a position of power or like, not underneath him.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:00 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:00 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
well, first he has to be arrested for this assault. i'm guessing we won't get that far.
I was thinking more along the lines of a civil suit, but anyway the most important point is the claim that it was a punch has no factual credibility regardless of how it is received legally or publicly and we agree on that so we can just leave it there.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:03 PM on October 27, 2015
I was thinking more along the lines of a civil suit, but anyway the most important point is the claim that it was a punch has no factual credibility regardless of how it is received legally or publicly and we agree on that so we can just leave it there.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:03 PM on October 27, 2015
bukvich: "What is the cop's height and weight"
Well, according to these powerlifting contest results, back in 2011 Ben Fields competed in the 275 lb weight class at 264.8 lbs. You can also see various videos of Fields lifting heavy weights, if you're so inclined.
Apropos of nothing, the organization that Fields competed in, the Southern Powerlifting Federation (SPF), apparently does not drug test. Now, I'm not saying that Ben Fields juices just because he competed in a non-drug tested powerlifting event. But, I'm also not not saying that he's filled with 'roid rage.
posted by mhum at 7:07 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
Well, according to these powerlifting contest results, back in 2011 Ben Fields competed in the 275 lb weight class at 264.8 lbs. You can also see various videos of Fields lifting heavy weights, if you're so inclined.
Apropos of nothing, the organization that Fields competed in, the Southern Powerlifting Federation (SPF), apparently does not drug test. Now, I'm not saying that Ben Fields juices just because he competed in a non-drug tested powerlifting event. But, I'm also not not saying that he's filled with 'roid rage.
posted by mhum at 7:07 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
> They'll be able to, once they reveal that she was high on marijuana
At this point, I am more than willing to believe that many, many people will judge her a danger and deserving of the treatment she got because she is A) black and B) once looked at a picture of a marijuana leaf.
posted by rtha at 7:14 PM on October 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
At this point, I am more than willing to believe that many, many people will judge her a danger and deserving of the treatment she got because she is A) black and B) once looked at a picture of a marijuana leaf.
posted by rtha at 7:14 PM on October 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
reagan gomez asked on twitter, We know black girl's are suspended at 6x the rate of white girls. Black women, how was your experience in school?
Nettaaaaaaaa continued hosting the conversation Thanks for bringing this up @ReaganGomez. Black girls, how was school for you growing up?
the tweets under both are heartbreaking and important. i love social media for being able to hear all of these stories and i hate that there are so many to tell.
posted by nadawi at 7:24 PM on October 27, 2015 [14 favorites]
Nettaaaaaaaa continued hosting the conversation Thanks for bringing this up @ReaganGomez. Black girls, how was school for you growing up?
the tweets under both are heartbreaking and important. i love social media for being able to hear all of these stories and i hate that there are so many to tell.
posted by nadawi at 7:24 PM on October 27, 2015 [14 favorites]
Ta-Nehisi Coates: The Creationist Style of Crime Control: When the director of the FBI questions public scrutiny of policing, he sends a profoundly anti-democratic message.
posted by homunculus at 7:38 PM on October 27, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 7:38 PM on October 27, 2015 [16 favorites]
There will be no room left for lawful authority if the bullies aren't rooted out of every police and sheriff's department in this country. The clock ticks ever louder, but what we get are work slow-downs and claims of a war on cops instead.
posted by ob1quixote at 7:50 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ob1quixote at 7:50 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think calling police bullies undermines some of the serious stuff that's going on. This isn't high school shenanigans done by children (not to downplay the serious impact of bullying.) This is a grown adult, purposefully throwing a kid, charging her with a crime, and terrorizing students.
This is power hungry. He is an abuser. This may be sociopathic. He is an attacker.
Let attach the strong words they attach to these children (non compliant, assault, disrupting the peace, defiant, murders, drug abusers ) back where they belong - on the adults who want to prosacute normal human behavior with violence and death.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:32 PM on October 27, 2015 [16 favorites]
This is power hungry. He is an abuser. This may be sociopathic. He is an attacker.
Let attach the strong words they attach to these children (non compliant, assault, disrupting the peace, defiant, murders, drug abusers ) back where they belong - on the adults who want to prosacute normal human behavior with violence and death.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:32 PM on October 27, 2015 [16 favorites]
To be honest, it was all I could do not to use the P-word and launch into a Class V Profane Tirade, almost certainly linking my favorite Disgruntled Burger Shack Employee video.
You're absolutely right though. The word I should have used was "renegades."
posted by ob1quixote at 9:19 PM on October 27, 2015
You're absolutely right though. The word I should have used was "renegades."
posted by ob1quixote at 9:19 PM on October 27, 2015
Apropos of nothing, the organization that Fields competed in, the Southern Powerlifting Federation (SPF), apparently does not drug test. Now, I'm not saying that Ben Fields juices just because he competed in a non-drug tested powerlifting event. But, I'm also not not saying that he's filled with 'roid rage.
And in true SPF Dickhole fashion, he's suited and wrapped to within an inch of his life and still can't get anywhere near parallel in his squat. So you can add "weak-ass cheater" to "child abuser" and "power-mad sociopath."
posted by Anonymous at 9:47 PM on October 27, 2015
And in true SPF Dickhole fashion, he's suited and wrapped to within an inch of his life and still can't get anywhere near parallel in his squat. So you can add "weak-ass cheater" to "child abuser" and "power-mad sociopath."
posted by Anonymous at 9:47 PM on October 27, 2015
Obama says police often scapegoated for society's failings
posted by Drinky Die at 11:01 PM on October 27, 2015
posted by Drinky Die at 11:01 PM on October 27, 2015
I cannot believe the sheriff got on live television and said that this guy has a black girlfriend. I can't. It cannot be real.
posted by Justinian at 11:45 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 11:45 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
(The sheriff's idiocy, not the girlfriend.)
posted by Justinian at 11:45 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 11:45 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
And why do cops call women "females" instead of "women" or "girls"? It's disrespectful.
posted by a humble nudibranch at 12:49 AM on October 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by a humble nudibranch at 12:49 AM on October 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
Well, they do also say "male", never man or boy. Like "White male, early 20s, about 6 feet tall" sort of sentence structure.
It's internally consistent in that sense at least. Not like some internet shitposters that say boys/men and FEEEEMALES.
It does definitely get weird when cops use cop-language in general conversation though. Holy shit is that a super awkward sentence.
posted by emptythought at 1:08 AM on October 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's internally consistent in that sense at least. Not like some internet shitposters that say boys/men and FEEEEMALES.
It does definitely get weird when cops use cop-language in general conversation though. Holy shit is that a super awkward sentence.
posted by emptythought at 1:08 AM on October 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
I cannot believe the sheriff got on live television and said that this guy has a black girlfriend. I can't. It cannot be real.
It's delightfully amusing, isn't it? In that "oh god, we're all doomed, so I might as well laugh" sort of way.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:49 AM on October 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
It's delightfully amusing, isn't it? In that "oh god, we're all doomed, so I might as well laugh" sort of way.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:49 AM on October 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
It makes me so sick and angry to see a kid treated like that. It reminds me of the awful footage from the Texas pool party where a cop assaulted that poor girl in her bathing suit. And it makes me so angry that this stuff happens often enough that I can think of several other horrible events that happened this year too--just off the top of my head.
posted by colfax at 4:40 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by colfax at 4:40 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
I couldn't believe some of the comments I saw elsewhere that said she was disrespectful and threw her own body backwards out of the chair while punching him. What the hell video were they watching? Threw her own body? The hell?
posted by zutalors! at 7:43 AM on October 28, 2015
posted by zutalors! at 7:43 AM on October 28, 2015
It does definitely get weird when cops use cop-language in general conversation though. Holy shit is that a super awkward sentence
One of the things I was taught to avoid in a criminal law clinic in law school was falling into the trap of using the cop lingo back at police witnesses on the stand. Argot can be seductive, because it makes you part of the in-group, but that's obviously a situation where you want to avoid making the police officer seem like a member of a specialized class that uses words normal people wouldn't understand. The result is that you might want to respond to "I saw two males, one made a furtive gesture, so I alighted my vehicle" with "so you saw two guys and got out of your car?"
It's way down the list of Problems with American Law Enforcement, but I think that linguistic divide, which encourages police officers to think of themselves as separate and apart from normal people can be a problem.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:43 AM on October 28, 2015 [15 favorites]
One of the things I was taught to avoid in a criminal law clinic in law school was falling into the trap of using the cop lingo back at police witnesses on the stand. Argot can be seductive, because it makes you part of the in-group, but that's obviously a situation where you want to avoid making the police officer seem like a member of a specialized class that uses words normal people wouldn't understand. The result is that you might want to respond to "I saw two males, one made a furtive gesture, so I alighted my vehicle" with "so you saw two guys and got out of your car?"
It's way down the list of Problems with American Law Enforcement, but I think that linguistic divide, which encourages police officers to think of themselves as separate and apart from normal people can be a problem.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:43 AM on October 28, 2015 [15 favorites]
Spring Valley High 'Officer Slam' To Be Relieved Of Duty
posted by jammy at 7:53 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by jammy at 7:53 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
I couldn't believe some of the comments I saw elsewhere that said she was disrespectful and threw her own body backwards out of the chair while punching him. What the hell video were they watching? Threw her own body? The hell?
Yeah, I'm seeing some real serious magical negro bullshit happening in comments all over the internet, just like that. And that's why I don't really have any faith that a jury would see through a claim that she was violent, or that a claim that she was violent wouldn't pass muster with the judicial system. Because honest to god haven't we seen enough dead black people slandered as troublemakers who had it coming and caused their own death with their violent actions?
I don't know what to do. I don't know how to change minds that think this way, I get too angry to be constructive.
posted by palomar at 7:53 AM on October 28, 2015 [13 favorites]
Yeah, I'm seeing some real serious magical negro bullshit happening in comments all over the internet, just like that. And that's why I don't really have any faith that a jury would see through a claim that she was violent, or that a claim that she was violent wouldn't pass muster with the judicial system. Because honest to god haven't we seen enough dead black people slandered as troublemakers who had it coming and caused their own death with their violent actions?
I don't know what to do. I don't know how to change minds that think this way, I get too angry to be constructive.
posted by palomar at 7:53 AM on October 28, 2015 [13 favorites]
The cognitive dissonance of "Don't be too quick to judge this officer! This was clearly an unstable, disruptive students with bad parents who was just looking for trouble!" is astounding. I've seen lots of "I'm going to defend what I see clearly happening on video with a series of fantasies about what I think might have happened before." It's disgusting, but weirdly fascinating to me to watch people bend over backward to justify police violence.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 8:04 AM on October 28, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Pater Aletheias at 8:04 AM on October 28, 2015 [7 favorites]
I used to work for a nonprofit that specialized, among other things, in security sector reform. We only worked in developing/transitioning countries, but it's high time the US did the same thing.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:05 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:05 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Victim of #AssaultAtSpringValleyHigh DOES have injuries to her back, neck, face, and arm, which is in a cast. via @RepRutherford
posted by subtle_squid at 8:13 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by subtle_squid at 8:13 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's way down the list of Problems with American Law Enforcement, but I think that linguistic divide, which encourages police officers to think of themselves as separate and apart from normal people can be a problem.
Right, the lingo feels like another aspect of the militarization.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:15 AM on October 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
Right, the lingo feels like another aspect of the militarization.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:15 AM on October 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
i kept trying to find a pull quote, but i feel like i'd just copy and paste the whole thing...it's not a long read and packed with information and emotion...
She was guilty of being a black girl: The mundane terror of police violence in American schools
posted by nadawi at 8:46 AM on October 28, 2015 [17 favorites]
She was guilty of being a black girl: The mundane terror of police violence in American schools
posted by nadawi at 8:46 AM on October 28, 2015 [17 favorites]
While not immediately directly exactly what the FPP is on, this popped up in my news feed and is just another version of the same problem. Only gussied up in diplomatic language.
Rwandan Foreign Minister: 'Where is a white man convicted by the ICC?'
The Foreign Minister of Rwanda accused the International Criminal Court (ICC) of having a racial bias and of being little more than a tool for Western countries "to manipulate African politics." Louise Mushikiwabo made these claims in an exclusive interview with Tim Sebastian on DW's Conflict Zone.
“Who would not support international justice? But the practice is that the lighter skin you are, the less guilty you are," Mushikiwabo told Sebastian.
posted by infini at 9:08 AM on October 28, 2015 [6 favorites]
Rwandan Foreign Minister: 'Where is a white man convicted by the ICC?'
The Foreign Minister of Rwanda accused the International Criminal Court (ICC) of having a racial bias and of being little more than a tool for Western countries "to manipulate African politics." Louise Mushikiwabo made these claims in an exclusive interview with Tim Sebastian on DW's Conflict Zone.
“Who would not support international justice? But the practice is that the lighter skin you are, the less guilty you are," Mushikiwabo told Sebastian.
posted by infini at 9:08 AM on October 28, 2015 [6 favorites]
Sheriff Lott: "Yes, some brutality complaints about Ben Fields have been sustained in the past."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:19 AM on October 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:19 AM on October 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
via Shaun King: Sheriff Lott states that he will continue to press charges against both students who were arrested. Outrageous.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:32 AM on October 28, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:32 AM on October 28, 2015 [9 favorites]
That's really the only word for it, it's an actual outrage.
posted by zutalors! at 9:34 AM on October 28, 2015
posted by zutalors! at 9:34 AM on October 28, 2015
Then they better charge the cop because what he did was a million times worse.
ARHG!
posted by AlexiaSky at 9:48 AM on October 28, 2015
ARHG!
posted by AlexiaSky at 9:48 AM on October 28, 2015
Sheriff Lott: "We must not lose sight that the whole incident was started by this student."
what a shitstain of a white supremacists fascist fuck
posted by nadawi at 9:50 AM on October 28, 2015 [24 favorites]
what a shitstain of a white supremacists fascist fuck
posted by nadawi at 9:50 AM on October 28, 2015 [24 favorites]
Spring Valley High Officer Ben Fields fired. Still wondering why he hasn't been handcuffed and hauled off to jail. He's shown on video assaulting a child, and there are multiple stories of him being abusive in the past. He is dangerous. I understand we give police a little leeway in these things sometimes, but this doesn't seem to be a case for that.
(As for why your reactionary friends deny the violence they see in the video.. It's a defensive response. We White Americans don't like being reminded that parts of our country are very sick.)
posted by Nelson at 9:54 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
(As for why your reactionary friends deny the violence they see in the video.. It's a defensive response. We White Americans don't like being reminded that parts of our country are very sick.)
posted by Nelson at 9:54 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
if you think of it as "parts" of this country, you're actually still in denial.
posted by twist my arm at 9:55 AM on October 28, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by twist my arm at 9:55 AM on October 28, 2015 [12 favorites]
orly_owl.jpg
A clear display of prejudiced disbelief of the innocence of others.
posted by infini at 10:13 AM on October 28, 2015
A clear display of prejudiced disbelief of the innocence of others.
posted by infini at 10:13 AM on October 28, 2015
Wow, I can't count how many "incidents" like this happened in my high school when kids didn't want to put their phones away and were verbally insubordinate to the teachers when told to put them away. Then again, my high school was mostly white and partially Latinx with only a few black kids.
posted by gucci mane at 10:14 AM on October 28, 2015
posted by gucci mane at 10:14 AM on October 28, 2015
> (As for why your reactionary friends deny the violence they see in the video.. It's a defensive response. We White Americans don't like being reminded that parts of our country are very sick.)
White supremacy: we're soaking in it!
It doesn't infect just parts of our country. It's in the media we create and consume, in all the narratives we tell about how someone "should have" behaved towards authority and because they didn't they deserve whatever happens to them. We created this system and maintain it with every mealy-mouthed response to any example that oops accidentally draws attention to its existence, with every "but we don't know all the facts" dismissal of the facts we do know.
posted by rtha at 10:19 AM on October 28, 2015 [7 favorites]
White supremacy: we're soaking in it!
It doesn't infect just parts of our country. It's in the media we create and consume, in all the narratives we tell about how someone "should have" behaved towards authority and because they didn't they deserve whatever happens to them. We created this system and maintain it with every mealy-mouthed response to any example that oops accidentally draws attention to its existence, with every "but we don't know all the facts" dismissal of the facts we do know.
posted by rtha at 10:19 AM on October 28, 2015 [7 favorites]
Nelson: " Still wondering why he hasn't been handcuffed and hauled off to jail. He's shown on video assaulting a child, and there are multiple stories of him being abusive in the past."
Well as he was removed from the situation immediately AND has been fired, any arrest will be a slower-rolling affair. You tend to get immediate arrests for people who are currently being violent or who are a flight risk or whatever. Child abuse prosecutions typically go through specialist DCFS investigators first, then go to police and prosecutors. The prosecutors will have to look through the case and weigh the evidence that will be admissible at trial versus how much the law protects cops who are on the job and decide whether they can bring a prosecution, and then whether doing so is the right call. THEN they would send someone to arrest him, or order him to turn himself in for arrest. Whether he's taken away handcuffed depends on local practices -- people who peacefully turn themselves in often aren't handcuffed, but some jurisdiction handcuff every arrestee who is going to ride in a police car even if they're turning themselves in peacefully.
Even if he isn't TRIED for child abuse (part of that will depend on the family's willingness to cooperate with a prosecution; it can be extremely traumatic for the victim child to go through a trial), he will probably be what's called "indicated" for child abuse, which is when DCFS indicates that, according to their investigation, child abuse occurred. These records are not available to the public; however, employment background checks for school employees, for others who work with children, and for cops, check this database and he will be barred from employment that would put him in routine contact with children by being "indicated."
I don't know a lot of the ins and outs of how "indication" works, but I know you can appeal it, and you remain on the list for varying periods of time according to the severity of the abuse. I do know that teachers who are EVER indicated are unable to acquire a teaching license again, but I'm not sure if that's because of DCFS's indication list, or if that's something the state board of ed maintains.
Anyway it would be totes satisfying to see him get frogmarched into custody, but probably instead it'll be a slow working-through of investigations by underfunded agencies, and the decision whether to prosecute him may be complicated. But he'll certainly end up "indicated" and he's not going to be able to work as a cop or in a school ever again. (Sadly, this may mean he becomes a mall security guard, with an even worse attitude problem.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:05 AM on October 28, 2015 [7 favorites]
Well as he was removed from the situation immediately AND has been fired, any arrest will be a slower-rolling affair. You tend to get immediate arrests for people who are currently being violent or who are a flight risk or whatever. Child abuse prosecutions typically go through specialist DCFS investigators first, then go to police and prosecutors. The prosecutors will have to look through the case and weigh the evidence that will be admissible at trial versus how much the law protects cops who are on the job and decide whether they can bring a prosecution, and then whether doing so is the right call. THEN they would send someone to arrest him, or order him to turn himself in for arrest. Whether he's taken away handcuffed depends on local practices -- people who peacefully turn themselves in often aren't handcuffed, but some jurisdiction handcuff every arrestee who is going to ride in a police car even if they're turning themselves in peacefully.
Even if he isn't TRIED for child abuse (part of that will depend on the family's willingness to cooperate with a prosecution; it can be extremely traumatic for the victim child to go through a trial), he will probably be what's called "indicated" for child abuse, which is when DCFS indicates that, according to their investigation, child abuse occurred. These records are not available to the public; however, employment background checks for school employees, for others who work with children, and for cops, check this database and he will be barred from employment that would put him in routine contact with children by being "indicated."
I don't know a lot of the ins and outs of how "indication" works, but I know you can appeal it, and you remain on the list for varying periods of time according to the severity of the abuse. I do know that teachers who are EVER indicated are unable to acquire a teaching license again, but I'm not sure if that's because of DCFS's indication list, or if that's something the state board of ed maintains.
Anyway it would be totes satisfying to see him get frogmarched into custody, but probably instead it'll be a slow working-through of investigations by underfunded agencies, and the decision whether to prosecute him may be complicated. But he'll certainly end up "indicated" and he's not going to be able to work as a cop or in a school ever again. (Sadly, this may mean he becomes a mall security guard, with an even worse attitude problem.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:05 AM on October 28, 2015 [7 favorites]
i haven't seen confirmation of this, so maybe it's wrong, but i have seen rumblings that the victim lost her mom earlier this year and was new to the school because she's in foster care? if that's true, then i worry the powers that be will keep protecting themselves and not protect her. i hope behind the scenes a support network is being created for her...
posted by nadawi at 11:15 AM on October 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 11:15 AM on October 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
This girl was recently orphaned, and is grieving the loss of her mother while living in foster care. (Identity has not been released, but her attorney released the info.)
posted by a fiendish thingy at 11:52 AM on October 28, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by a fiendish thingy at 11:52 AM on October 28, 2015 [6 favorites]
the details about her mom and foster care have been confirmed
posted by nadawi at 11:53 AM on October 28, 2015
posted by nadawi at 11:53 AM on October 28, 2015
Sorry for double posting, nadawi-- forgot to preview.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 11:54 AM on October 28, 2015
posted by a fiendish thingy at 11:54 AM on October 28, 2015
it was me who double posted w/o previewing! i thought you were just confirming what i had only seen as a rumor previously...
posted by nadawi at 12:03 PM on October 28, 2015
posted by nadawi at 12:03 PM on October 28, 2015
'Here are examples people say terrible things about this' is notreally helpful because that is what this thread is about already the systemic nature of violence being institutionalized and made okay because b an officer said it was so. It is a pipeline
because it has been constructed to move 'trouble makers' from schools to jails.
I'm kinda glad she has a tough family history, because it makes her now real and human instead of demonizing her with words describing criminalization, and her race to make her an instigator of sone sort. She is a orphaned kid in a new school. Maybe her phone is her coping mechanism for all of the change and problems in her life. Maybe she just needs to have done control in a crazy Fucked up world.
Regardless of her history, regardless of her race she was a child with a phone. That isn't a crime. It may be a rule, it may frustrate others but it isnt something that warranted classroom attention. The teacher could have let her be. Taken away participation punts or given her a detention and moved on regardless of her actions.
posted by AlexiaSky at 1:02 PM on October 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
because it has been constructed to move 'trouble makers' from schools to jails.
I'm kinda glad she has a tough family history, because it makes her now real and human instead of demonizing her with words describing criminalization, and her race to make her an instigator of sone sort. She is a orphaned kid in a new school. Maybe her phone is her coping mechanism for all of the change and problems in her life. Maybe she just needs to have done control in a crazy Fucked up world.
Regardless of her history, regardless of her race she was a child with a phone. That isn't a crime. It may be a rule, it may frustrate others but it isnt something that warranted classroom attention. The teacher could have let her be. Taken away participation punts or given her a detention and moved on regardless of her actions.
posted by AlexiaSky at 1:02 PM on October 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
You can be racist and have a black friend.
You can be racist and have a black best friend.
You can be racist and have a black girlfriend.
You can be racist and have a black wife.
And finally, you can be racist and be a black person. It's kinda rare, but it happens.
Racism is bigger than mere garden variety prejudice or bigotry. It's a system. And it's such a huge system that it's vastness allows it to hide right there in plain sight. All around us. All the time.
For example, if you see a black kid getting severely man-handled by a police officer without provocation (or honestly even with provocation) and your first instinct is to tap into all your worst cues of what you think a black person is capable of deserving of in that situation: perhaps the kid was disrespectful in a particularly "black" way, maybe they refused to comply, maybe deep down you've been conditioned to think blacks have some well of superhuman strength they can access...that is racism. That's not all that racism is of course, but it's a pretty common and current strain of it. It's in the thinking. And it's quietly buttressed by everything from media coverage, to pop culture, to even more insidious social conditioning.
So no, him having a "black girlfriend" isn't any more an inoculation from accusations of racism than the old racist that has a list of "good ones" that he deigns to be friends with.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 1:04 PM on October 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
You can be racist and have a black best friend.
You can be racist and have a black girlfriend.
You can be racist and have a black wife.
And finally, you can be racist and be a black person. It's kinda rare, but it happens.
Racism is bigger than mere garden variety prejudice or bigotry. It's a system. And it's such a huge system that it's vastness allows it to hide right there in plain sight. All around us. All the time.
For example, if you see a black kid getting severely man-handled by a police officer without provocation (or honestly even with provocation) and your first instinct is to tap into all your worst cues of what you think a black person is capable of deserving of in that situation: perhaps the kid was disrespectful in a particularly "black" way, maybe they refused to comply, maybe deep down you've been conditioned to think blacks have some well of superhuman strength they can access...that is racism. That's not all that racism is of course, but it's a pretty common and current strain of it. It's in the thinking. And it's quietly buttressed by everything from media coverage, to pop culture, to even more insidious social conditioning.
So no, him having a "black girlfriend" isn't any more an inoculation from accusations of racism than the old racist that has a list of "good ones" that he deigns to be friends with.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 1:04 PM on October 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
It is now two government agencies against eachother. Public school district vs. DCFS.
posted by AlexiaSky at 1:06 PM on October 28, 2015
posted by AlexiaSky at 1:06 PM on October 28, 2015
I think these people have shut their minds completely from actually engaging in a logical discourse. I know there's this phenomenon where we justify what we want to believe, and then rationalize everything from that position post hoc rather than actually coming to our beliefs based on the information before us. But it's frustrating to see that happen in thousands of conversations, like clockwork, every time there's a new event that shoves obvious injustice in our faces. There's never any leeway and it barely feels like there's even a human mind there to engage with or appeal to.
posted by naju at 1:07 PM on October 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by naju at 1:07 PM on October 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
Naju -The term you are looking for is cognitive dissonance.
posted by AlexiaSky at 1:09 PM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by AlexiaSky at 1:09 PM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
Sounds right. I just have no idea how to approach it, or whether to even try. It's like you're trying to persuade the borg. This vast wall of reified status quo racism seems impenetrable, even when you're just talking to a friend one-on-one.
posted by naju at 1:14 PM on October 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by naju at 1:14 PM on October 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
Motivational interviewing includes techniques to increase cognitive dissonance in people.
In my experience though it is much harder to move ideas/beliefs that impact someone's moral standing than anything else. It is also a slow process and takes a good relationship. And then sone people just never change.
posted by AlexiaSky at 1:22 PM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
In my experience though it is much harder to move ideas/beliefs that impact someone's moral standing than anything else. It is also a slow process and takes a good relationship. And then sone people just never change.
posted by AlexiaSky at 1:22 PM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Deputy fired for throwing South Carolina student, even though 'she started this,' sheriff says" [emphasis added]
Jesus. This dogged determination to blame the victim, to go the "s/he was no angel" route, to never respect black peoples' grief or dignity, to make no attempt to show any kind of empathy is often, to me, in some ways just as horrifying as the precipitating incidents.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:31 PM on October 28, 2015 [21 favorites]
Jesus. This dogged determination to blame the victim, to go the "s/he was no angel" route, to never respect black peoples' grief or dignity, to make no attempt to show any kind of empathy is often, to me, in some ways just as horrifying as the precipitating incidents.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:31 PM on October 28, 2015 [21 favorites]
Ladies and gentlemen, law enforcement in 2015.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:34 PM on October 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:34 PM on October 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
Is democracy now grabbing its headlines from metafilter?
Not necessarily. The ACLU has been using it since 2010 and this is probably just a coincidence.
posted by bukvich at 2:00 PM on October 28, 2015
Not necessarily. The ACLU has been using it since 2010 and this is probably just a coincidence.
posted by bukvich at 2:00 PM on October 28, 2015
bukvich, I took the OP headline from the Vox story.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:01 PM on October 28, 2015
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:01 PM on October 28, 2015
It has spread, by proxy, and by procedural design, to every airport in the world.
posted by infini at 2:14 PM on October 28, 2015
posted by infini at 2:14 PM on October 28, 2015
Regardless of her history, regardless of her race she was a child with a phone. That isn't a crime.
Unfortunately, AlexiaSky, this is a crime in South Carolina--that's why I linked the statute above.
To repeat, because it's horrifying and wrong, South Carolina has criminalized "disrupting the classroom", albeit making it a misdemeanor. That is not the totality of the problem but it is both the problem and a symptom of the problem. It's bad law; it's bad policy; and it reflects a gross misunderstanding of adolescence and an abdication of our duty to guide adolescents into adulthood.
It's wrong because it facilitates and promotes the labeling of children as criminals when they don't conform, when they have behavioral disorders, when they have emotional crises. It's wrong because it lets people dismiss children as bad people, as criminals, when it's convenient to do so. It's wrong because it allows poorly trained, quick-to-violence, armed police officers to bring the "subdue the suspect by whatever means necessary first and then maybe assess the situation" mentality into a fucking classroom full of kids.
None of what I've written above even begins to address the racist underpinnings of these attitudes, these laws, these policies, these incidents.
Anyone who thought this law was necessary and good ought to be ashamed and ought to be prevented from ever governing again.
posted by crush-onastick at 3:34 PM on October 28, 2015 [7 favorites]
Unfortunately, AlexiaSky, this is a crime in South Carolina--that's why I linked the statute above.
To repeat, because it's horrifying and wrong, South Carolina has criminalized "disrupting the classroom", albeit making it a misdemeanor. That is not the totality of the problem but it is both the problem and a symptom of the problem. It's bad law; it's bad policy; and it reflects a gross misunderstanding of adolescence and an abdication of our duty to guide adolescents into adulthood.
It's wrong because it facilitates and promotes the labeling of children as criminals when they don't conform, when they have behavioral disorders, when they have emotional crises. It's wrong because it lets people dismiss children as bad people, as criminals, when it's convenient to do so. It's wrong because it allows poorly trained, quick-to-violence, armed police officers to bring the "subdue the suspect by whatever means necessary first and then maybe assess the situation" mentality into a fucking classroom full of kids.
None of what I've written above even begins to address the racist underpinnings of these attitudes, these laws, these policies, these incidents.
Anyone who thought this law was necessary and good ought to be ashamed and ought to be prevented from ever governing again.
posted by crush-onastick at 3:34 PM on October 28, 2015 [7 favorites]
after sandra bland's death, one of the reactions i saw were black women recording videos that were pretty much "if i'm ever arrested and die in custody, i did not kill myself" - one of the women who helped organize the effort got a text from her 13 year old sister asking if she should record one as well...
from the article i posted up thread a bit :
from the article i posted up thread a bit :
But one student, Niya Kenney, remained unbowed. She knew the situation was messed up, so she asked repeatedly, “What the fuck? What the fuck?” She said she began to pray aloud for the student and to videotape the incident. Cussing and praying seem to be a universal Black women’s language of resistance. Bearing witness boldly even when it might cost your own safety is a Black girl’s language of solidarity. For this, she was arrested.posted by nadawi at 4:20 PM on October 28, 2015 [27 favorites]
And here I repeat: Whether loud or quiet, Black girls who refuse to concede fear to power are violently chastised into submission.
That Niya Kenney has really got it going on. What guts!
posted by jamjam at 5:34 PM on October 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by jamjam at 5:34 PM on October 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
Victim of #AssaultAtSpringValleyHigh DOES have injuries to her back, neck, face, and arm, which is in a cast. via @RepRutherford
Random detail, but i injured my back in high school working a stupid summer job when some stuff fell. It didn't hurt much at the time after a few days and i thought it was fine. I'm now in my mid 20s, basically ten years n change later, and my back is STILL fucked up and hurts occasionally. I've talked to doctors about it and they basically went ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This may well leave her with low level annoying-and-draining-but-not-crippling lifelong injuries, is what i'm saying.
There's something metaphorical in that considering the context, but even as a straight-take it just made me go "god fucking dammit".
posted by emptythought at 5:37 PM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Random detail, but i injured my back in high school working a stupid summer job when some stuff fell. It didn't hurt much at the time after a few days and i thought it was fine. I'm now in my mid 20s, basically ten years n change later, and my back is STILL fucked up and hurts occasionally. I've talked to doctors about it and they basically went ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This may well leave her with low level annoying-and-draining-but-not-crippling lifelong injuries, is what i'm saying.
There's something metaphorical in that considering the context, but even as a straight-take it just made me go "god fucking dammit".
posted by emptythought at 5:37 PM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
When students owe subservience as the price of not being assaulted, schools become prisons.
posted by rtha at 5:45 PM on October 28, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by rtha at 5:45 PM on October 28, 2015 [13 favorites]
Cops in the Classroom: How Pathetic Are We?
posted by homunculus at 7:19 PM on October 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 7:19 PM on October 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
School officers are not new, but this kind of conduct is getting worse across the board. Time to stop hiring combat veterans whose training in and experience of carrying out military occupation will never be fully displaced by whatever policing skills they're taught. Or their disdain for the civilians they are now supposed to serve and protect.
I know i'm late to the party, but this comment is way off base.
Normally I am not one to defend the military, but if a soldier/MP had treated a civilian this way they would be discharged dishonorably.
The problem isn't that police forces are hiring vets in droves, the problem is that the police forces are building out their own thuggish paramilitaries.
posted by thsmchnekllsfascists at 7:33 PM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
I know i'm late to the party, but this comment is way off base.
Normally I am not one to defend the military, but if a soldier/MP had treated a civilian this way they would be discharged dishonorably.
The problem isn't that police forces are hiring vets in droves, the problem is that the police forces are building out their own thuggish paramilitaries.
posted by thsmchnekllsfascists at 7:33 PM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
Normally I am not one to defend the military, but if a soldier/MP had treated a civilian this way they would be discharged dishonorably.
This only happens in the most visible or egregious cases. More typically US just pays a minimal amount of restitution to make the situation go away, if anything. It's called solatia or condolence payments, and we budget for it. (There's also the Foreign Claims Act.)
From "Monetary Payments for Civilian Harm in
International and National Practice" (Amsterdam Int'l Law Clinic, 2013)
Do you really think every US serviceperson who has ever unjustifiably manhandled or terrorized a minor civilian in Afghanistan or Iraq has been dishonorably discharged? An effectively endless amount of reportage, media and even official accounts demonstrate that is not the case.
Or maybe you meant if a US serviceperson or MP treated a US civilian that way, which really wasn't the point at all. I'm not talking about MPs or how our troops are expected to behave towards US citizens.
I'm talking about the way combat troops trained to carry out an occupation ending up looking at policing when they come home and enter the toxic law enforcement culture. I'm sure it's not true of all soldiers, and I understand the practical benefits vs. recruiting from the general population from a police department's perspective, but this is going to be a real problem down the road.
The militarization of policing has not just been a matter of equipment. Police departments are filling up with people who have been trained to overcome opposition with force and have had their inhibitions against violence, including deadly violence, intentionally weakened by training and exposure, beyond that of police training. Many have seen combat, most have spent time in warzones. Many will have some amount of untreated PTSD. All come from an authoritarian milieu where orders are to be obeyed, individual concerns are devalued, and disrespect is intolerable.
The problem isn't that police forces are hiring vets in droves, the problem is that the police forces are building out their own thuggish paramilitaries.
They're both problems. Maybe the wannabes are even worse, but police departments whose watchwords are Semper Fi and Hoo-Rah are not a good thing. Mark my words.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:42 PM on October 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
This only happens in the most visible or egregious cases. More typically US just pays a minimal amount of restitution to make the situation go away, if anything. It's called solatia or condolence payments, and we budget for it. (There's also the Foreign Claims Act.)
From "Monetary Payments for Civilian Harm in
International and National Practice" (Amsterdam Int'l Law Clinic, 2013)
Solatia Payments: Cases of death in Afghanistan have a cap of USD 2,000 for solatia payments, while payments for serious injury amount to USD 400. Non-serious injury is capped at USD 200.45 Serious property damage does not have a defined monetary amount under the solatia program. Non-serious property damage is capped at USD 200.46
• Condolence/Battle Damage payments: In Afghanistan, condolence/battle damage payments have a cap of USD 2,500. For serious harm or death, battle damage payments amount to USD 1,600. For non-serious injury, payments are capped at USD 600.47 Condolence payments for serious property damage have a cap of USD 2,200. Non-serious property damage is capped at USD 200.48
• Through conversations with the Center for Law and Military Operation (CLAMO) within the US Army JAG Corps, the Center has found that payments may be authorized up to USD 10,000 if approved by a higher command. There is, however, little evidence that many successful claims
surpass USD 2,500.
Do you really think every US serviceperson who has ever unjustifiably manhandled or terrorized a minor civilian in Afghanistan or Iraq has been dishonorably discharged? An effectively endless amount of reportage, media and even official accounts demonstrate that is not the case.
Or maybe you meant if a US serviceperson or MP treated a US civilian that way, which really wasn't the point at all. I'm not talking about MPs or how our troops are expected to behave towards US citizens.
I'm talking about the way combat troops trained to carry out an occupation ending up looking at policing when they come home and enter the toxic law enforcement culture. I'm sure it's not true of all soldiers, and I understand the practical benefits vs. recruiting from the general population from a police department's perspective, but this is going to be a real problem down the road.
The militarization of policing has not just been a matter of equipment. Police departments are filling up with people who have been trained to overcome opposition with force and have had their inhibitions against violence, including deadly violence, intentionally weakened by training and exposure, beyond that of police training. Many have seen combat, most have spent time in warzones. Many will have some amount of untreated PTSD. All come from an authoritarian milieu where orders are to be obeyed, individual concerns are devalued, and disrespect is intolerable.
The problem isn't that police forces are hiring vets in droves, the problem is that the police forces are building out their own thuggish paramilitaries.
They're both problems. Maybe the wannabes are even worse, but police departments whose watchwords are Semper Fi and Hoo-Rah are not a good thing. Mark my words.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:42 PM on October 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
"I've said it before, but "Just do what he says and he won't hurt you," is advice for hostages, not citizens interacting with the police."
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:53 PM on October 28, 2015 [31 favorites]
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:53 PM on October 28, 2015 [31 favorites]
Shaun King has confirmed that the girl isn't orphaned, but estranged from her mother. Still living in foster care, still undergoing God knows what internal turmoil, and still treated brutally by the cop and the school system.
posted by maudlin at 9:28 AM on October 29, 2015
posted by maudlin at 9:28 AM on October 29, 2015
Ugh, god.
So I'm taking a political science class right now, and the class makeup skews very young -- at 38 I'm probably the oldest student (I know I'm older than the instructor by roughly a year), and many students are enrolled in the Running Start program so they're actually still in high school. I think most of the students fall into the 16-24 age bracket. We have to discuss current events on our discussion boards, and I have to say, if anyone is sitting around thinking racism is going to be a problem of the past once the olds start to die off... honey, no. Many of these kids see very little wrong with what happened to that girl; they've totally bought into the "you must comply, noncompliance earns you a beat-down" mentality. The guy who posted the subject to the discussion board framed it in a mealymouthed passive way -- "it's been said that she struck the officer, he could have handled things better but she initiated contact and was uncooperative." Direct quote. They're buying into what the authority figures tell them. They're numb to this.
posted by palomar at 9:43 AM on October 29, 2015 [5 favorites]
So I'm taking a political science class right now, and the class makeup skews very young -- at 38 I'm probably the oldest student (I know I'm older than the instructor by roughly a year), and many students are enrolled in the Running Start program so they're actually still in high school. I think most of the students fall into the 16-24 age bracket. We have to discuss current events on our discussion boards, and I have to say, if anyone is sitting around thinking racism is going to be a problem of the past once the olds start to die off... honey, no. Many of these kids see very little wrong with what happened to that girl; they've totally bought into the "you must comply, noncompliance earns you a beat-down" mentality. The guy who posted the subject to the discussion board framed it in a mealymouthed passive way -- "it's been said that she struck the officer, he could have handled things better but she initiated contact and was uncooperative." Direct quote. They're buying into what the authority figures tell them. They're numb to this.
posted by palomar at 9:43 AM on October 29, 2015 [5 favorites]
That's what 15 years of war, abridged civil rights, normalization of a surveillance society and the papering over of widening social inequality will get you. A couple generations of kids who can't remember anything different and are invested in their position within the system so long as they perceive it as protecting them.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:30 AM on October 29, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:30 AM on October 29, 2015 [8 favorites]
The New York Times is reporting that Deputy Fields has been fired over the incident.
Unfortunately the local sheriff is continuing with his stance that the student is the one to blame for what happened here and misdemeanor criminal charges against the student are still pending.
posted by Nerd of the North at 1:03 PM on October 29, 2015
Unfortunately the local sheriff is continuing with his stance that the student is the one to blame for what happened here and misdemeanor criminal charges against the student are still pending.
posted by Nerd of the North at 1:03 PM on October 29, 2015
I don't know if y'all have seen the latest tactical response from police brutality apologists and People Who Are Certainly Not Racist And Are Instead Just Pointing Out The Facts: posting videos of black students assaulting white teachers and then asking "Why didn't this video go viral?!"
Ignoring the fact that the students in the videos are pretty much always suspended and charged with assault. Ignoring a whole bunch of other facts that start, as W Kamau Bell noted, with the transatlantic slave trade.
The victim-blaming and now these claims of reverse racism make me wonder if it's time to hand the planet off to a different species and see if they can do a better job than we did. It certainly seems like we've set a very low bar for the roaches, rats, microbes or whatever to hurdle.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:19 PM on October 29, 2015 [15 favorites]
Ignoring the fact that the students in the videos are pretty much always suspended and charged with assault. Ignoring a whole bunch of other facts that start, as W Kamau Bell noted, with the transatlantic slave trade.
The victim-blaming and now these claims of reverse racism make me wonder if it's time to hand the planet off to a different species and see if they can do a better job than we did. It certainly seems like we've set a very low bar for the roaches, rats, microbes or whatever to hurdle.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:19 PM on October 29, 2015 [15 favorites]
lord_wolf: “I don't know if y'all have seen the latest tactical response from police brutality apologists and People Who Are Certainly Not Racist And Are Instead Just Pointing Out The Facts: posting videos of black students assaulting white teachers and then asking "Why didn't this video go viral?!" ”On my Facebook they are Also, Too, circulating an article from Police One that says that more and more cops are getting "ambushed." Amusingly, the related links provided by Facebook directly underneath are articles from The Washington Post and The Guardian which show that the "war on cops" is all in the cops' heads.
I really don't want to be the kind of person to unfriend people over their stupid opinions, but the flying monkeys have been making it really hard the last few months.
posted by ob1quixote at 2:58 PM on October 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Lesbian newlyweds say Hawaii cop assaulted, falsely imprisoned and then arrested them while on honeymoon for kissing in supermarket. The couple say they were required to remain on Oahu for six months on bail during which they were homeless, after which the case was thrown out. The officer who arrested them is a 26 year veteran of the force and remains on duty. The couple have filed a lawsuit against the officer and the department.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:01 PM on October 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:01 PM on October 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Perhaps unsurprisingly, a quick Google search demonstrates that this is not the first time Officer Harrison has exhibited less than professional conduct:
Officer Bobby HARRISON, Jr.
Knowledge of Laws and Regulations
Obedience to Laws and Regulations
Performance
Conduct
Truthfulness
Directives
On March 19, 1991, while Officer HARRISON was on duty, he failed to turn in monetary evidence that was given to him.
Officer HARRISON was suspended for five days.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:09 PM on October 29, 2015
Officer Bobby HARRISON, Jr.
Knowledge of Laws and Regulations
Obedience to Laws and Regulations
Performance
Conduct
Truthfulness
Directives
On March 19, 1991, while Officer HARRISON was on duty, he failed to turn in monetary evidence that was given to him.
Officer HARRISON was suspended for five days.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:09 PM on October 29, 2015
(Vacation not honeymoon — they're a couple of two years. Oops!)
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:17 PM on October 29, 2015
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:17 PM on October 29, 2015
Out here in Hawaii, Officer Harrison has provoked the first really major "how dare a local police officer..." in a really long time response from the people I interact with. While I'm sure he has some supporters somewhere, the general consensus (even from the two police officers I know) has been "fire that asshole."
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:33 PM on October 29, 2015
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:33 PM on October 29, 2015
In news designed to make your head explode:
Hundreds of students walked out of Spring Valley High School in Columbia, South Carolina on Friday morning in support of the deputy sheriff who was fired after violently arresting a black student.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:33 AM on October 30, 2015
Hundreds of students walked out of Spring Valley High School in Columbia, South Carolina on Friday morning in support of the deputy sheriff who was fired after violently arresting a black student.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:33 AM on October 30, 2015
As long as we have police like Ben Fields in schools, kids must be allowed to have video-equipped cell phones in class.
posted by hush at 11:49 AM on October 30, 2015
posted by hush at 11:49 AM on October 30, 2015
In news designed to make your head explode:
Watching students and/or a community come out to support someone involved in the football team who'd been caught doing horrifying things is, at this point, boringly normal. Just as an empirical matter, football is more important than assaulting students, child-rape by adults, and student-on-student rape.
Our usual dog walk takes us right by our local high school, and every time I walk by it makes me happy to see how fucking dinky and unimportant the football stands are.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:11 PM on October 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Watching students and/or a community come out to support someone involved in the football team who'd been caught doing horrifying things is, at this point, boringly normal. Just as an empirical matter, football is more important than assaulting students, child-rape by adults, and student-on-student rape.
Our usual dog walk takes us right by our local high school, and every time I walk by it makes me happy to see how fucking dinky and unimportant the football stands are.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:11 PM on October 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Cop assaults student who had his prescription sports goggles stolen by another student
Fer Jeebus' sake, somebody make this stop. My stomach turns every time I see the naked fascism of cops like these.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:41 PM on November 2, 2015
Fer Jeebus' sake, somebody make this stop. My stomach turns every time I see the naked fascism of cops like these.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:41 PM on November 2, 2015
What the fuck is wrong with this country?
posted by entropicamericana at 1:49 PM on November 2, 2015
posted by entropicamericana at 1:49 PM on November 2, 2015
In news designed to make your head explode:
Hundreds of students walked out of Spring Valley High School in Columbia, South Carolina on Friday morning in support of the deputy sheriff who was fired after violently arresting a black student.
I just found another article about this by The Independent. They could have gone into a lot more detail. Which students held this protest? What do some of the football players think, since Ben Fields was their strength coach? Were any of the students who saw the desk-flipping at the protest? Was this in reaction to anti-Fields protests by other students? There's barely any information here.
posted by Rangi at 10:28 PM on November 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hundreds of students walked out of Spring Valley High School in Columbia, South Carolina on Friday morning in support of the deputy sheriff who was fired after violently arresting a black student.
I just found another article about this by The Independent. They could have gone into a lot more detail. Which students held this protest? What do some of the football players think, since Ben Fields was their strength coach? Were any of the students who saw the desk-flipping at the protest? Was this in reaction to anti-Fields protests by other students? There's barely any information here.
posted by Rangi at 10:28 PM on November 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
“Spring Valley High School Father Speaks Out Against Officer,” Kyle Jaegar , attn:, 03 November 2015
YouTube rip of the video “Spring Valley Father Speaks Out Against Police Brutality”
posted by ob1quixote at 4:48 PM on November 4, 2015
YouTube rip of the video “Spring Valley Father Speaks Out Against Police Brutality”
posted by ob1quixote at 4:48 PM on November 4, 2015
Another Student Attacked by Campus Police
Also : Video Shows Dad Had ‘Hands Up’ When Police Murdered 6-yo Jeremy Mardis
posted by jeffburdges at 1:32 PM on November 9, 2015
Also : Video Shows Dad Had ‘Hands Up’ When Police Murdered 6-yo Jeremy Mardis
posted by jeffburdges at 1:32 PM on November 9, 2015
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Well now we know why this kind of thing happens.
1. Police abuse the power they're given.
2. Citizens bury their heads in the sand.
posted by prepmonkey at 10:28 AM on October 27, 2015 [18 favorites]