Jagged Little Pill turns 20
November 13, 2015 11:30 AM Subscribe
And we still don't know who inspired "You Oughta Know." Plus a few more things you oughta know about Alanis.
Let's not forget the other Canadian pop star whose career took a dark turn.
Restraining orders don't scaaaare me...
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:39 AM on November 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
Restraining orders don't scaaaare me...
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:39 AM on November 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
21. She really likes Skee-Ball.
posted by delfin at 11:49 AM on November 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by delfin at 11:49 AM on November 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
From TFA:
posted by pxe2000 at 11:51 AM on November 13, 2015 [25 favorites]
Alanis Morissette's album of siren songs for pissed-off chicks everywhere, "Jagged Little Pill," turns 20 this month.The only song from that album that I remember being out-and-out vitriolic was "You Oughta Know". The rest of them struck me as emotional, but also reasonable and well-considered. (Also, grammatically incorrect and kinda creepy in spots.) I wish the mainstream media wouldn't stigmatize women's emotions like this.
posted by pxe2000 at 11:51 AM on November 13, 2015 [25 favorites]
It is such a good album, ridiculously fun to sing loudly, and the older I get the more astonished I am that she was so young when she wrote it.
posted by billiebee at 11:51 AM on November 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by billiebee at 11:51 AM on November 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
Did she write it? Impressive if so. I'd always assumed she was the face of a typical commercial product.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:54 AM on November 13, 2015
posted by five fresh fish at 11:54 AM on November 13, 2015
As a master scavenger of used CD bins, I report that "Jagged Little Pill" and Chumbawamba's "Tubthumper" are fighting it out for the discard crown.
posted by davebush at 11:58 AM on November 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by davebush at 11:58 AM on November 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
This is one of those albums that just has great song after great song. Still love it, even if it is very much of that time.
posted by alms at 12:04 PM on November 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by alms at 12:04 PM on November 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
Wait, what? It's not about Dave Coulier? Goddammit. I liked that it was about Dave Coulier.
posted by holborne at 12:04 PM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by holborne at 12:04 PM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I consider myself an "I knew her before she became mainstream, man" fan, because I had a crush on her going back to her "You Can't Do That on Television" days (was very jealous of her romantic interest in Alistair). "You Oughta Know" is about as good as it gets as far as "FU" breakup songs go.
posted by The Gooch at 12:05 PM on November 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by The Gooch at 12:05 PM on November 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Wait a minute, I've been older than Alanis Morrisette this whole time?
posted by Sphinx at 12:06 PM on November 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by Sphinx at 12:06 PM on November 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
I'd always assumed she was the face of a typical commercial product.
Why's that? Wait, let me guess...
posted by billiebee at 12:06 PM on November 13, 2015 [43 favorites]
Why's that? Wait, let me guess...
posted by billiebee at 12:06 PM on November 13, 2015 [43 favorites]
Sys Rq: HE'S NOT THEIR UNCLE
HE'S JUST SOME GUY
s
HOW MANY TIMES MUST WE GO OVER THIS
Cut!It!Out!
✌👉👍
posted by dr_dank at 12:08 PM on November 13, 2015 [25 favorites]
HE'S JUST SOME GUY
s
HOW MANY TIMES MUST WE GO OVER THIS
Cut!It!Out!
✌👉👍
posted by dr_dank at 12:08 PM on November 13, 2015 [25 favorites]
The only song from that album that I remember being out-and-out vitriolic was "You Oughta Know".
It's the song that has lasted best though, conveying a level of rage and angst that is pretty rare in pop (and Flea on bass etc).
The chorus is just straight rock with swearing added, but the verse and pre-chorus are well ahead of their time in terms of incorporating the jerky creativity of rap phrase rhythms into rock. The way the band pause into stop time at the end of chorus for us all to take a breath is a way of releasing the enormous amount of tension built up.
posted by colie at 12:08 PM on November 13, 2015
It's the song that has lasted best though, conveying a level of rage and angst that is pretty rare in pop (and Flea on bass etc).
The chorus is just straight rock with swearing added, but the verse and pre-chorus are well ahead of their time in terms of incorporating the jerky creativity of rap phrase rhythms into rock. The way the band pause into stop time at the end of chorus for us all to take a breath is a way of releasing the enormous amount of tension built up.
posted by colie at 12:08 PM on November 13, 2015
Jagged Little Pill was the first album I bought with my pocket money - I think I first heard a friend's slightly older sister's copy and fell hard - You oughta know made for an interesting car ride with the family, though. *sideways look at camera two* It is an album that I have come back to a lot since then.
(That friend heard 'Of the cross I bear that you gave to me' as 'the cross-eyed bear that you gave to me' though and I have to listen hard to not hear that even now.)
posted by halcyonday at 12:13 PM on November 13, 2015
(That friend heard 'Of the cross I bear that you gave to me' as 'the cross-eyed bear that you gave to me' though and I have to listen hard to not hear that even now.)
posted by halcyonday at 12:13 PM on November 13, 2015
I have recently wondered if the phrase "friends with benefits" came from the line in Head Over Feet: "You're my best friend - best friend with benefits." It is the first time I remember hearing it, but I was also a naive teenager 20 years ago.
posted by soelo at 12:14 PM on November 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by soelo at 12:14 PM on November 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
And we still don't know who inspired "You Oughta Know."
Uh... yes we do. Paul Shaffer.
posted by Talez at 12:15 PM on November 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Uh... yes we do. Paul Shaffer.
posted by Talez at 12:15 PM on November 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Why's that? Wait, let me guess...
I was confused about it too. Not about YOK etc, I knew she wrote that, but Alanis did some other stuff (which it turns out she also wrote) prior to YOK etc for the Canadian market that came across (to a lot of people, including me) as product-y, I think because of those people's dislike for certain kinds of pop music. This erroneous conclusion put a shadow of suspicion on anything she ever did after that. Which was probably wrong. (I think fff is Canadian.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 12:16 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was confused about it too. Not about YOK etc, I knew she wrote that, but Alanis did some other stuff (which it turns out she also wrote) prior to YOK etc for the Canadian market that came across (to a lot of people, including me) as product-y, I think because of those people's dislike for certain kinds of pop music. This erroneous conclusion put a shadow of suspicion on anything she ever did after that. Which was probably wrong. (I think fff is Canadian.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 12:16 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh and Marit Larsen did a bit of a homage to Ironic with the video for "Traveling Alone".
posted by Talez at 12:19 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Talez at 12:19 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I enjoyed the way Jagged Little Pill was used in The Trip to Italy. Apparently it caused a spike in sales last year.
posted by bradf at 12:19 PM on November 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by bradf at 12:19 PM on November 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
According to the local rumour mill in Ottawa at the time, Leslie Howe, her produce/manager/Svengali for her first two dance albums, was the other participant in one of the theatrical acts described in the song. Like Simon's "You're So Vain", it seems likely to me that "You Oughta Know" was a composite of experiences and likely not all a single guy. But then it's not not about any single guy either.
posted by bonehead at 12:26 PM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 12:26 PM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Billiebee: Okay, let's hear your guess. Or is drive by insinuation more your style?
posted by five fresh fish at 12:28 PM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by five fresh fish at 12:28 PM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I remember buying that record pretty early, and then being kind of amazed that (a) it had some depth to it; and (b) it got as totally bananapants huge as it did.
33 million copies is insane. Wikipedia lists it as the 12th best selling record of all time, between a Spice Girls record and a Celine Dion record, and two spots ahead of the first entry from the Beatles (Sgt. Pepper).
Because it might amuse, the list in order through JLP is: Thriller (claimed 51-65M), Back in Black (50), Dark Side of the Moon (45), The Bodyguard soundtrack (44), Bat Out of Hell (43), Eagles Greatest Hits 1971-1975 (42), Saturday Night Fever (40), Rumors (40), Come On Over (Twain; 39), Led Zeppelin's IV (37), Spice (30, and about which WAT), and then Jagged Little Pill.
I know next to squat about royalty rates, but my guess is that if you're primary songwriter on a 30 million seller, and you avoid expensive chemical habits, you're probably rich forever.
posted by uberchet at 12:28 PM on November 13, 2015 [10 favorites]
33 million copies is insane. Wikipedia lists it as the 12th best selling record of all time, between a Spice Girls record and a Celine Dion record, and two spots ahead of the first entry from the Beatles (Sgt. Pepper).
Because it might amuse, the list in order through JLP is: Thriller (claimed 51-65M), Back in Black (50), Dark Side of the Moon (45), The Bodyguard soundtrack (44), Bat Out of Hell (43), Eagles Greatest Hits 1971-1975 (42), Saturday Night Fever (40), Rumors (40), Come On Over (Twain; 39), Led Zeppelin's IV (37), Spice (30, and about which WAT), and then Jagged Little Pill.
I know next to squat about royalty rates, but my guess is that if you're primary songwriter on a 30 million seller, and you avoid expensive chemical habits, you're probably rich forever.
posted by uberchet at 12:28 PM on November 13, 2015 [10 favorites]
Her brief cameo as the supreme being at the end of 'Dogma' is really excellent. It's worth the price of admission.
posted by ovvl at 12:31 PM on November 13, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by ovvl at 12:31 PM on November 13, 2015 [15 favorites]
Did she write it?
I think the answer has to be pretty much unequivocally yes, she did. Certainly all the lyrics and melodies are hers. But, realizing that there's the normal production stuff that happened during the recording process.
From Wikipaedia:
"Flea and I did that song together in the studio. It was already written with different instrumentation and we were asked to kind of re-write the music... A lot like a re-mix. The structure of the song was in place but there were no guide tracks, we just had the vocal to work from. It was just a good time and we basically jammed until we found something we were both happy with. Alanis was happy too."
—Dave Navarro talking about the conception of "You Oughta Know"
posted by bonehead at 12:31 PM on November 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
I think the answer has to be pretty much unequivocally yes, she did. Certainly all the lyrics and melodies are hers. But, realizing that there's the normal production stuff that happened during the recording process.
From Wikipaedia:
"Flea and I did that song together in the studio. It was already written with different instrumentation and we were asked to kind of re-write the music... A lot like a re-mix. The structure of the song was in place but there were no guide tracks, we just had the vocal to work from. It was just a good time and we basically jammed until we found something we were both happy with. Alanis was happy too."
—Dave Navarro talking about the conception of "You Oughta Know"
posted by bonehead at 12:31 PM on November 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
Alanis herself on the creation of the album.
posted by Frayed Knot at 12:37 PM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Frayed Knot at 12:37 PM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Previously, from back in June when it actually turned 20.
posted by chococat at 12:37 PM on November 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by chococat at 12:37 PM on November 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
Or is drive by insinuation more your style?
billiebee can and I'm sure will speak for herself, but not (ever!) in my observation. (I think it's fair enough to question whether doubting women's authority over their work is coming from a place other than taking issue with them doing the roger rabbit in public.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 12:39 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
billiebee can and I'm sure will speak for herself, but not (ever!) in my observation. (I think it's fair enough to question whether doubting women's authority over their work is coming from a place other than taking issue with them doing the roger rabbit in public.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 12:39 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
(because it happens lots :/)
posted by cotton dress sock at 12:41 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by cotton dress sock at 12:41 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Okay, let's hear your guess.
Because she was a young woman at the time so she must have been the face of a commercial product rather than writing her own music. I've never seen the sentence "Did he write it? Impressive if so." about a man who won a Grammy for Album of the Year. It's ironic that I want to scream "pissed-off chicks" songs right now.
posted by billiebee at 12:41 PM on November 13, 2015 [46 favorites]
Because she was a young woman at the time so she must have been the face of a commercial product rather than writing her own music. I've never seen the sentence "Did he write it? Impressive if so." about a man who won a Grammy for Album of the Year. It's ironic that I want to scream "pissed-off chicks" songs right now.
posted by billiebee at 12:41 PM on November 13, 2015 [46 favorites]
Larry David knows who the song is about.
posted by Saxon Kane at 12:45 PM on November 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Saxon Kane at 12:45 PM on November 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
YOK came out at a moment in my life when it could not have resonated more deeply for me. and now I'm saying "wait...20 years? 20 years??!!" yeah its been 20 years. oh boy...
posted by supermedusa at 12:47 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by supermedusa at 12:47 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've never seen the sentence "Did he write it? Impressive if so." about a man who won a Grammy for Album of the Year.
Well, I mean, Paul Simon was pretty happy when Stevie Wonder didn't write/produce anything that one year.
posted by alex_skazat at 12:53 PM on November 13, 2015
Well, I mean, Paul Simon was pretty happy when Stevie Wonder didn't write/produce anything that one year.
posted by alex_skazat at 12:53 PM on November 13, 2015
I saw a post in my social media recently from a woman who fended off a violent sexual assault in Chicago by screaming and kicking the guy in the nuts. She mentioned as an aside that she was listening to "You Oughta Know" right before the incident, and the pure white-hot feminine rage of that song triggered something in her and made her fight back.
posted by naju at 12:58 PM on November 13, 2015 [26 favorites]
posted by naju at 12:58 PM on November 13, 2015 [26 favorites]
As a master scavenger of used CD bins, I report that "Jagged Little Pill" and Chumbawamba's "Tubthumper" are fighting it out for the discard crown
Not in Canada they aren't. That honor goes to The Brown Album by Bootsauce.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 1:01 PM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Not in Canada they aren't. That honor goes to The Brown Album by Bootsauce.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 1:01 PM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I remember at the time that the most surprising people (metal heads, country fans) had bought the album. Guess they dumped it eventually.
posted by Bee'sWing at 1:12 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Bee'sWing at 1:12 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Still love this album. But then, my favorite genre of music is basically angry white chicks from the 90s.
posted by likeatoaster at 1:17 PM on November 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by likeatoaster at 1:17 PM on November 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
> I've never seen the sentence "Did he write it? Impressive if so." about a man who won a Grammy for Album of the Year.
I think I remember people saying similar things about Justin Timberlake back in the day. (he didn't win Album of the Year, sure, but he's won a whole bunch of other Grammys.)
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 1:44 PM on November 13, 2015
I think I remember people saying similar things about Justin Timberlake back in the day. (he didn't win Album of the Year, sure, but he's won a whole bunch of other Grammys.)
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 1:44 PM on November 13, 2015
I think I'd be impressed if I found out that Justin Bieber wrote all his own music. I always just assumed that mainstream hit music by young performers is mainly produced by other people because being a great performer and having a marketable image is somewhat orthogonal to being a great songwriter and it would be unlikely to find someone equally talented at both at a young age. Maybe I'm wrong and it's more common than I think.
posted by zixyer at 1:44 PM on November 13, 2015
posted by zixyer at 1:44 PM on November 13, 2015
I think "packaged" performers have steadily increased in frequency for 20 or 30 years, to the point that today it's fair to wonder if a 19 or 20 year old really wrote his or her own hit album, or is really driving their own career, or whatever. (I think lots of people ARE surprised to learn that Taylor Swift is mostly writing her own material, for example, though probably less so now than 2 or 3 years ago.)
But ISTR that a big part of Alanis' narrative even 20 years ago was the fact that JLP was absolutely her work, vs. the poppier stuff her prior handlers had wanted her to do.
posted by uberchet at 1:49 PM on November 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
But ISTR that a big part of Alanis' narrative even 20 years ago was the fact that JLP was absolutely her work, vs. the poppier stuff her prior handlers had wanted her to do.
posted by uberchet at 1:49 PM on November 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
Yeah, I should qualify my previous comment by saying that I was aware that Morrisette wrote her own music despite not being a fan in particular; it was pretty well known.
posted by zixyer at 1:52 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by zixyer at 1:52 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh man, this album came out right after I left my husband for fucking his teenage brother's girlfriend. Just thinking about the song makes me remember the white hot rage I sang this song with, and I'll be honest, the rage I was able to express because of it, stopped me from bottling it up and then exploding into a murderous rage that would have ended with me pushing him through a meat grinder and turning him into Christmas sausages.
So, this album saved at least one life, and stopped me from spending mine looking like a pumpkin in an orange jumpsuit.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 1:52 PM on November 13, 2015 [22 favorites]
So, this album saved at least one life, and stopped me from spending mine looking like a pumpkin in an orange jumpsuit.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 1:52 PM on November 13, 2015 [22 favorites]
The song that convinced a generation that reminding one's exes of the mess they left when they went away is a good idea.
The Human Relations section of AskMe is richer for You Oughta Know's existence.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 1:54 PM on November 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
The Human Relations section of AskMe is richer for You Oughta Know's existence.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 1:54 PM on November 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
Alanis has updated the lyrics to "Ironic" for 2015.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 1:58 PM on November 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 1:58 PM on November 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
In 2015, Taylor Swift invited Morrisette on stage in Los Angeles to sing the song with her.Many of Swift's fans at the concert, who had been born since the song's release, expressed bewilderment as to her identity.
posted by gottabefunky at 2:01 PM on November 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 2:01 PM on November 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
I wish the mainstream media wouldn't stigmatize women's emotions like this
There's no stigma attached to being pissed off. I wish the author had said something more accurate, though, like "siren songs for pissed-off chicks and gay boys and bros and basically every teenager everywhere in the English-speaking world." Actually, when I was living in France in 1998/1999 there were a lot of adult French dudes obsessed with this album, or at least sweatily screaming along to it at bars.
Pretty sure "Right Through You" and "Not the Doctor" hit pretty pissed off notes. Even in its quiter, thoughtful tones I get a very angry vibe from the album (which I do still listen to from time to time, it holds up well). Not to mention the first Alanis quote at the second link has her casting herself as having been angry in the 90s.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 2:01 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
There's no stigma attached to being pissed off. I wish the author had said something more accurate, though, like "siren songs for pissed-off chicks and gay boys and bros and basically every teenager everywhere in the English-speaking world." Actually, when I was living in France in 1998/1999 there were a lot of adult French dudes obsessed with this album, or at least sweatily screaming along to it at bars.
Pretty sure "Right Through You" and "Not the Doctor" hit pretty pissed off notes. Even in its quiter, thoughtful tones I get a very angry vibe from the album (which I do still listen to from time to time, it holds up well). Not to mention the first Alanis quote at the second link has her casting herself as having been angry in the 90s.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 2:01 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's been 20 years? Good grief.
I certainly remember when JLP dropped. Such a good record to turn up loud (mostly) I still fondly remember, just a handful of years ago, walking past my daughter's room and hearing my copy of JLP blasting in her room.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:06 PM on November 13, 2015
I certainly remember when JLP dropped. Such a good record to turn up loud (mostly) I still fondly remember, just a handful of years ago, walking past my daughter's room and hearing my copy of JLP blasting in her room.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:06 PM on November 13, 2015
I don't mind being older than artists now (though I am still not used to being older than presidental hopefuls) but I am distressed to have been older than Alanis then. Yes I know this is ironic makes no sense.
The only song from that album that I remember being out-and-out vitriolic was "You Oughta Know". The rest of them struck me as emotional, but also reasonable and well-considered. (Also, grammatically incorrect and kinda creepy in spots.) I wish the mainstream media wouldn't stigmatize women's emotions like this.
You Oughta Know is my first memory of independently noticing and being irritated by the double standard for women's sexuality in entertainment. Sir Mix-A-Lot had songs getting video playback on MTV (#include joke about videos on MTV) around the same time as You Oughta Know; looking at the timeline for his albums I see that the one with the lyrical gem "Put em on the glass" was from 94 so maybe that was it, though I remember ranting about it and including mention of him being seen humping a giant rubber ass, so maybe that got some accompany airplay with the new album or they were just doing some compare/contrast with PEotG's video & the soaped-up breasts being pressed against car windows.
Meanwhile, "go down on you in a theater" would get bleeped/distorted.
posted by phearlez at 2:07 PM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
The only song from that album that I remember being out-and-out vitriolic was "You Oughta Know". The rest of them struck me as emotional, but also reasonable and well-considered. (Also, grammatically incorrect and kinda creepy in spots.) I wish the mainstream media wouldn't stigmatize women's emotions like this.
You Oughta Know is my first memory of independently noticing and being irritated by the double standard for women's sexuality in entertainment. Sir Mix-A-Lot had songs getting video playback on MTV (#include joke about videos on MTV) around the same time as You Oughta Know; looking at the timeline for his albums I see that the one with the lyrical gem "Put em on the glass" was from 94 so maybe that was it, though I remember ranting about it and including mention of him being seen humping a giant rubber ass, so maybe that got some accompany airplay with the new album or they were just doing some compare/contrast with PEotG's video & the soaped-up breasts being pressed against car windows.
Meanwhile, "go down on you in a theater" would get bleeped/distorted.
posted by phearlez at 2:07 PM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
> Oh man, this album came out right after I left my husband for fucking his teenage brother's girlfriend. Just thinking about the song makes me remember the white hot rage I sang this song with,
I chose this album as The CD I Will Never Be Able to Listen to Again, when my mom was dying and I was driving from the DC 'burbs where I lived to her place (or the hospital) in Baltimore every day. I screamed this song, howled it, snarled it. It was definitely a factor in keeping somewhat sane.
posted by rtha at 2:08 PM on November 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
I chose this album as The CD I Will Never Be Able to Listen to Again, when my mom was dying and I was driving from the DC 'burbs where I lived to her place (or the hospital) in Baltimore every day. I screamed this song, howled it, snarled it. It was definitely a factor in keeping somewhat sane.
posted by rtha at 2:08 PM on November 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
"Jagged Little Pill" and Chumbawamba's "Tubthumper" are fighting it out for the discard crown.
I get thrown out
And I get bought again
You're never gonna keep me down
posted by dephlogisticated at 2:09 PM on November 13, 2015 [32 favorites]
I get thrown out
And I get bought again
You're never gonna keep me down
posted by dephlogisticated at 2:09 PM on November 13, 2015 [32 favorites]
Meanwhile, "go down on you in a theater" would get bleeped/distorted.
The directness of it was as important as the anger, I've always thought. Guys could get away with sexual references all the time, but the other big female acts at the time were the squeeky clean Celine Dion and the acceptably, mildly naughty Shania Twain. There were other women who were as explicit, but Alanis was one voice in her generation that no one could ignore. And I think she changed what was main-stream ok evermore.
posted by bonehead at 2:19 PM on November 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
The directness of it was as important as the anger, I've always thought. Guys could get away with sexual references all the time, but the other big female acts at the time were the squeeky clean Celine Dion and the acceptably, mildly naughty Shania Twain. There were other women who were as explicit, but Alanis was one voice in her generation that no one could ignore. And I think she changed what was main-stream ok evermore.
posted by bonehead at 2:19 PM on November 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
It's been 20 years? Good grief.
Yeah. I have an Ask on the way about how to cope with time whipping by and being asked to bear the relentless memorializing of recentish & highly evocative moments in pop culture. It's too hot to hold, as it were, Alanis was right.
posted by cotton dress sock at 2:20 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah. I have an Ask on the way about how to cope with time whipping by and being asked to bear the relentless memorializing of recentish & highly evocative moments in pop culture. It's too hot to hold, as it were, Alanis was right.
posted by cotton dress sock at 2:20 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Apologies fff if I read your comment uncharitably. There is a long history of women not being given credit for their musical accomplishments, being seen only as the pretty face in front of the real (male) musicians, and generally being eradicated from music history (as with all histories). I don't consider JLP a pop record and it wasn't considered so at the time. Male rock/alternative artists frequently write all the lyrics and play all the instruments on a record and no one assumes they're just frontin' for someone else behind the scenes. It's a particular bugbear for me so I probably had a FFS knee-jerk reaction to the "Did she write it? Impressive if so" comment which I read as being patronisingly dismissive. Sorry if that wasn't your intent.
posted by billiebee at 2:24 PM on November 13, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by billiebee at 2:24 PM on November 13, 2015 [15 favorites]
I always just assumed that mainstream hit music by young performers is mainly produced by other people because being a great performer and having a marketable image is somewhat orthogonal to being a great songwriter and it would be unlikely to find someone equally talented at both at a young age.
Debbie Gibson wrote, sang, and produced all her own songs back in the 80s. (Actually, she still does.) That gave her the edge over Tiffany, at least in my mind. : )
posted by SisterHavana at 2:31 PM on November 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Debbie Gibson wrote, sang, and produced all her own songs back in the 80s. (Actually, she still does.) That gave her the edge over Tiffany, at least in my mind. : )
posted by SisterHavana at 2:31 PM on November 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Back on topic, this album was the perfect album that came out at the perfect time for me. I played it so often that I wore out the cassette.
posted by SisterHavana at 2:33 PM on November 13, 2015
posted by SisterHavana at 2:33 PM on November 13, 2015
this from wikipedia (and koeselitz and others' discussion of authenticity in that other thread about this rerelease) might provide a sort of context for the mixed reception (incl. mistrust) of YOK as a single in Canada in 1995 by people of a certain age and inclination:
Unusually, however, the song was only a modest hit in Morissette's native Canada, peaking only at #20 pop[8] and #21 rock[9] in RPM. Music journalists have attributed the song's weak chart performance to resistance from Canadian radio programmers,[10] because the aggressive, hard rock nature of the song marked a dramatic shift from Morissette's established image as a teen dance-pop star.[10] Despite the song's weak chart performance, however, the video reached #1 on MuchMusic and #3 on MusiquePlus,[10] and overall album sales of Jagged Little Pill were comparable to those in the United States even while the single's performance was faltering.[10] It was the only single from the album not to hit #1 or #2 on the Canadian pop charts.
Not knowing that she was behind her dance stuff (which biased interpretations of later stuff), or not thinking about it since then is either 1) just not really paying attention or having a strong interest in the question (probably a few Canadians), or 2) being stubbornly anti-Alanis for various reasons (me, as witnessed in my dopey comments in that other thread, which should probably not be looked at for insight on the Alanis phenomenon).
posted by cotton dress sock at 2:52 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Unusually, however, the song was only a modest hit in Morissette's native Canada, peaking only at #20 pop[8] and #21 rock[9] in RPM. Music journalists have attributed the song's weak chart performance to resistance from Canadian radio programmers,[10] because the aggressive, hard rock nature of the song marked a dramatic shift from Morissette's established image as a teen dance-pop star.[10] Despite the song's weak chart performance, however, the video reached #1 on MuchMusic and #3 on MusiquePlus,[10] and overall album sales of Jagged Little Pill were comparable to those in the United States even while the single's performance was faltering.[10] It was the only single from the album not to hit #1 or #2 on the Canadian pop charts.
Not knowing that she was behind her dance stuff (which biased interpretations of later stuff), or not thinking about it since then is either 1) just not really paying attention or having a strong interest in the question (probably a few Canadians), or 2) being stubbornly anti-Alanis for various reasons (me, as witnessed in my dopey comments in that other thread, which should probably not be looked at for insight on the Alanis phenomenon).
posted by cotton dress sock at 2:52 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Thank you, billiebee.
posted by five fresh fish at 2:52 PM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by five fresh fish at 2:52 PM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yesterday there was a thread about Harvey Danger's "Flagpole Sitta" - I'm shocked that no one asked if they wrote it themselves. No wait, what's the opposite of shock...
posted by naju at 2:53 PM on November 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by naju at 2:53 PM on November 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
who won a Grammy for Album of the Year
I take your point about authorship but this is a weird thing to bring up w/r/t 90s music. I'm probably simplifying but at that time, I remember the Grammys being emblematic of what was seen as the big bad corporate music machine that we were all seeking an "alternative" to. Around the time Nirvana put out Nevermind, the Grammys were nominating stuff like Phil Collins, Wilson Phillips, Amy Grant, and MC Hammer for Album of the Year.
There's no stigma attached to being pissed off
For real; "pissed off" is kind of the thread uniting the vast majority of my music collection.
posted by Hoopo at 3:04 PM on November 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
I take your point about authorship but this is a weird thing to bring up w/r/t 90s music. I'm probably simplifying but at that time, I remember the Grammys being emblematic of what was seen as the big bad corporate music machine that we were all seeking an "alternative" to. Around the time Nirvana put out Nevermind, the Grammys were nominating stuff like Phil Collins, Wilson Phillips, Amy Grant, and MC Hammer for Album of the Year.
There's no stigma attached to being pissed off
For real; "pissed off" is kind of the thread uniting the vast majority of my music collection.
posted by Hoopo at 3:04 PM on November 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
I had no idea David Foster Wallace was such an Alanis fan until I recently watched End of the Tour. The singalong scene in the car was probably my favorite part.
posted by mannequito at 3:04 PM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by mannequito at 3:04 PM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
When JLP came out, I was in college, a late-blooming, deeply lonely young man suffering terribly from depression. I had the sort of obsessive crush on Alanis that I usually associate with girls in the 60s and John or Paul or George. I thought about her constantly. That I would never have a chance to meet her seemed like the saddest thing in the world; I could barely live with the thought. So was so beautiful; her music was so real.
Eventually the fog of depression lifted; my tastes changed; I mostly left Alanis behind.
I just listened to "Your House" -- the "hidden" track at the end of JLP -- for the first time in at least ten years. It still works: the moment she wails "it wasn't my writing," I completely lose my shit. Forgive me, love, if I cry all afternoon.
posted by /\/\/\/ at 3:09 PM on November 13, 2015 [11 favorites]
Eventually the fog of depression lifted; my tastes changed; I mostly left Alanis behind.
I just listened to "Your House" -- the "hidden" track at the end of JLP -- for the first time in at least ten years. It still works: the moment she wails "it wasn't my writing," I completely lose my shit. Forgive me, love, if I cry all afternoon.
posted by /\/\/\/ at 3:09 PM on November 13, 2015 [11 favorites]
I don't consider JLP a pop record and it wasn't considered so at the time.
Alanis is kind of on the edge between pop and not-pop - I mean obviously she started pop and evolved from there - and I do kind of see how people might have dismissed her as major label "fake alternative" at the time. Sometimes I think people have a light trigger-pull on the "would you have said that about a male singer?" bit - I mean no, I don't assume by default that any pop singer writes their own songs. And I'm way past seeing anything wrong with that, but sometimes I do learn that someone wrote something and I realize they are way more diversely talented than I knew. At the same time the way you originally wrote this
Did she write it? Impressive if so. I'd always assumed she was the face of a typical commercial product.
does come off unnecessarily dismissive I think, FFF.
Anyway the whole thing was co-written by her and the producer Glen Ballard.
posted by atoxyl at 3:34 PM on November 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
Alanis is kind of on the edge between pop and not-pop - I mean obviously she started pop and evolved from there - and I do kind of see how people might have dismissed her as major label "fake alternative" at the time. Sometimes I think people have a light trigger-pull on the "would you have said that about a male singer?" bit - I mean no, I don't assume by default that any pop singer writes their own songs. And I'm way past seeing anything wrong with that, but sometimes I do learn that someone wrote something and I realize they are way more diversely talented than I knew. At the same time the way you originally wrote this
Did she write it? Impressive if so. I'd always assumed she was the face of a typical commercial product.
does come off unnecessarily dismissive I think, FFF.
Anyway the whole thing was co-written by her and the producer Glen Ballard.
posted by atoxyl at 3:34 PM on November 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
And it's one of those things that's commercial but also good and meaningful.
posted by atoxyl at 3:42 PM on November 13, 2015
posted by atoxyl at 3:42 PM on November 13, 2015
I saw Alanis in Whole Foods not too long ago. She went into the wellness section, where all the vitamins and things are. I have no idea what she bought. The woman behind me was jumping up and down with excitement because another celeb was also in the store and Alanis was in the till line up beside us. And I so desperately wanted to ask Alanis if she was buying jagged little pills. But, you know, that wouldn't be cool.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 4:46 PM on November 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 4:46 PM on November 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
Mod note: One comment deleted; point made about the "did she write her own stuff" thing being a problem, but maybe let's leave that at this point, and re-rail the thread.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 4:48 PM on November 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 4:48 PM on November 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
I just listened to "Your House" -- the "hidden" track at the end of JLP -- for the first time in at least ten years.
OMG I forgot about that song but I just teared up remembering it. I have an Alanis Morissette station on Pandora that's part of my "shuffle" option, and I really just love her music. I was annoyed at "Uninvited" (which Pandora plays a lot) for a while, but the more I thought about why it was annoying, the more hooked into the song I got.
Alanis Morissette was the first "real concert" I went to, where it wasn't assigned seating and there was no seating at all and I felt so grown up. There were maybe 60 people there? It was after "You Oughta Know" came out, because that's how I had heard of her, but apparently before it got big, so it's neat to have seen her in that sliver of time where she was playing really awesome music in fairly intimate clubs.
(Also my brother does an awesome impression of a cross-eyed bear trying to catch salmon.)
posted by jaguar at 6:34 PM on November 13, 2015
OMG I forgot about that song but I just teared up remembering it. I have an Alanis Morissette station on Pandora that's part of my "shuffle" option, and I really just love her music. I was annoyed at "Uninvited" (which Pandora plays a lot) for a while, but the more I thought about why it was annoying, the more hooked into the song I got.
Alanis Morissette was the first "real concert" I went to, where it wasn't assigned seating and there was no seating at all and I felt so grown up. There were maybe 60 people there? It was after "You Oughta Know" came out, because that's how I had heard of her, but apparently before it got big, so it's neat to have seen her in that sliver of time where she was playing really awesome music in fairly intimate clubs.
(Also my brother does an awesome impression of a cross-eyed bear trying to catch salmon.)
posted by jaguar at 6:34 PM on November 13, 2015
I refuse to acknowledge that this album is 20 years old. This is my senior year of high school, blasting every song with the windows down and imagining that this is how we would burn the boyfriends we would someday dump...
posted by TwoStride at 7:28 PM on November 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 7:28 PM on November 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
I was 11 when JLP came out, and had only been in the country for a year. Middle school was hard enough and I was still figuring out what kind of music was "cool". But I was watching her videos on MTV and loved every single song, and then I found out all my cool friends were into rap. However I had one friend who shared my love of Alanis and he was also in my boyscout troop. We secretly sang her songs together in our tent and it was great.
A few years ago a friend of mine won meet-and-greet passes to her concert. I made the point of wearing this shirt. We were only allowed to say hi and take one photo and got ushered away, but when she said hi to me she told me she really like the shirt. That made my year!
Anyways, <3 Alanis.
posted by numaner at 7:49 PM on November 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
A few years ago a friend of mine won meet-and-greet passes to her concert. I made the point of wearing this shirt. We were only allowed to say hi and take one photo and got ushered away, but when she said hi to me she told me she really like the shirt. That made my year!
Anyways, <3 Alanis.
posted by numaner at 7:49 PM on November 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
I remember early in high school, we all got group assignments in music class to do a presentation on music during specific decades. For some bizarre reason, the nerdiest group of us got the 90s. Why you'd even assign the decade we were still living in, when musical history was still fresh ink on a fresh page, I don't know. Why you'd ask a bunch of people with relatively limited pop culture knowledge to hold forth on the significance of modern music, I'm not sure.
But those two things and the fact that we wanted to sound cool led me to proclaim loudly that Alanis Morissette's Jagged Little Pill was a one-hit wonder. This was probably the most unpopular statement I ever uttered in my entire high school career. The best part? I actually liked the album, but had assumed that if I liked it, it must be uncool, so clearly the correct thing to say was that it was trash. I was genuinely confused for a while.
posted by chrominance at 6:47 AM on November 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
But those two things and the fact that we wanted to sound cool led me to proclaim loudly that Alanis Morissette's Jagged Little Pill was a one-hit wonder. This was probably the most unpopular statement I ever uttered in my entire high school career. The best part? I actually liked the album, but had assumed that if I liked it, it must be uncool, so clearly the correct thing to say was that it was trash. I was genuinely confused for a while.
posted by chrominance at 6:47 AM on November 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
I have been trying in vain to find a copy of George Wendt doing a dramatic reading of "Hand In My Pocket" on Conan, also about 20 years ago. This was at a time when late night TV was really ramping up their dismissiveness of Alanis, like more than any other pop star at the time. I remember being taken aback by how enthusiastically ugly they were about her. But Wendt's reading, while certainly comic, seemed like more an homage than a sneer. It was refreshing.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 12:12 PM on November 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 12:12 PM on November 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
I thought it was about Warren Beatty, and Mick Jagger sang backup? (Or about Mick, and Warren sang backup??)
posted by Chitownfats at 4:41 PM on November 14, 2015
posted by Chitownfats at 4:41 PM on November 14, 2015
> I have recently wondered if the phrase "friends with benefits" came from the line in Head Over Feet: "You're my best friend - best friend with benefits." It is the first time I remember hearing it, but I was also a naive teenager 20 years ago.
As someone who is a mere six months older than Ms. Morissette, I can assure you that the phrase was in popular usage at the time.
posted by desuetude at 9:29 PM on November 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
As someone who is a mere six months older than Ms. Morissette, I can assure you that the phrase was in popular usage at the time.
posted by desuetude at 9:29 PM on November 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
As the thread has settled down a bit...
I didn't want to get in the way, but I wanted to drop something in about the question of whether Alanis Morrisette "wrote her own songs", which is a little bit more complicated than that.
(Pardon all this - I've just had coffee so am prone to over-typing.)
From the Beatles onwards, there was the notion that a "proper" band or musician did pretty much everything themselves, which effectively began with Lennon and McCartney - although most of the material was published as Lennon and McCartney, it's pretty much established that they wrote the songs mostly separately and published them together and that it's the lead singer of the song who can be taken to have written it. And both of them (and Harrison) had terrific instincts for writing pop songs. Most pop singers didn't really have that instinct, though. The ones that did (Pete Townsend, Ray Davies) have stuck around, the others have been forgotten.
In any case, there was now a division between the performers who wrote their own material (and thus had credibility) and those who did not.
(Looking back this means that groups such as Suzi Quattro and The Sweet who relied on songwriters were unfairly dismissed. And Abba were unfairly dismissed anyway, despite writing all their own material. But anyway.)
I came of musical age at a time when the charts were full of singles written by the performers which were also wonderful pop songs - off the top of my head I'd mention Squeeze, Madness and Elvis Costello because I'm that kind of malnourished white boy, but really it was everywhere. Largely this was because when the bands were coming up, they didn't have the promotion or the money or the technology and (let's be brutally honest) they didn't have the looks, so what they relied on to win audiences over were the hooks, which were often killer. Songwriting is a kind of technology in itself, and a very cheap one. Costello was a singer-songwriter with a band, Sting and Tilbrook frontmen who were also songwriters, but in a lot of other cases, there were the writers (Mike Barson in Madness, Jerry Dammers in The Specials) who had their role as songwriter as the singer had their role as frontman. They learned how to get responses from audiences by what they did, whether it was the songs or the singing and playing or the choreography, and by and large they worked it out themselves. There was no one to school them in anything. But they became very technically adept at making pop songs largely by ear.
Then during the 80s, the record company took over the presentation of the performers. There were stylists and various consultants. The songwriting was left more or less alone, though, and there was still the divide between the credible (Aztec Camera, Prefab Sprout) and the less credible (Stock Aitken and Waterman). You could still be a credible, less-good-looking pop singer, but the stylists would put a bit of slap on before the photographer came in.
Into the 90s and performers were increasingly being selected by record companies for their all-round ability to sing, dance and having the looks - the boyband phenomenon. Who, it's been noted very often by their long-suffering managers, always wanted at some point to become credible musicians by writing their own material.
Morrisette was a fairly early example of what has become standard music industry practise - to team a performer (who has ideas) with a songwriter (often one of those people who had the songwriting technique, but not the looks or charisma to carry them to success). The song was still a personal expression, but in coalition with someone who had the knowledge that could edit the expression to be effective, and present it in a generally pleasing way. So, yes, she did write the songs, but so did Glen Ballard. It's really not fair to say that either of them was the "true" author of the album, as it probably wouldn't have been as effective without either.
(Of course, having a songwriting credit is a pretty good way to make sure you get paid.)
On the whole my personal opinion is that songwriting technique in general has dwindled somewhat all round (my personal favourite example is in the chorus to Skyfall where Adele and her co-writer Paul Epworth build to a big climax halfway through the chorus and literally have no idea of where to go next, so she just wibbles around for a bit. I can think of a couple of more effective places John Barry might have taken it, but am also very aware that Adele is an enormously famous and well-loved performer and Paul Epworth is a very successful songwriter with many awards on his mantlepiece, whereas I'm neither famous, successful nor well-loved and I don't even have a mantlepiece).
posted by Grangousier at 1:34 AM on November 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
I didn't want to get in the way, but I wanted to drop something in about the question of whether Alanis Morrisette "wrote her own songs", which is a little bit more complicated than that.
(Pardon all this - I've just had coffee so am prone to over-typing.)
From the Beatles onwards, there was the notion that a "proper" band or musician did pretty much everything themselves, which effectively began with Lennon and McCartney - although most of the material was published as Lennon and McCartney, it's pretty much established that they wrote the songs mostly separately and published them together and that it's the lead singer of the song who can be taken to have written it. And both of them (and Harrison) had terrific instincts for writing pop songs. Most pop singers didn't really have that instinct, though. The ones that did (Pete Townsend, Ray Davies) have stuck around, the others have been forgotten.
In any case, there was now a division between the performers who wrote their own material (and thus had credibility) and those who did not.
(Looking back this means that groups such as Suzi Quattro and The Sweet who relied on songwriters were unfairly dismissed. And Abba were unfairly dismissed anyway, despite writing all their own material. But anyway.)
I came of musical age at a time when the charts were full of singles written by the performers which were also wonderful pop songs - off the top of my head I'd mention Squeeze, Madness and Elvis Costello because I'm that kind of malnourished white boy, but really it was everywhere. Largely this was because when the bands were coming up, they didn't have the promotion or the money or the technology and (let's be brutally honest) they didn't have the looks, so what they relied on to win audiences over were the hooks, which were often killer. Songwriting is a kind of technology in itself, and a very cheap one. Costello was a singer-songwriter with a band, Sting and Tilbrook frontmen who were also songwriters, but in a lot of other cases, there were the writers (Mike Barson in Madness, Jerry Dammers in The Specials) who had their role as songwriter as the singer had their role as frontman. They learned how to get responses from audiences by what they did, whether it was the songs or the singing and playing or the choreography, and by and large they worked it out themselves. There was no one to school them in anything. But they became very technically adept at making pop songs largely by ear.
Then during the 80s, the record company took over the presentation of the performers. There were stylists and various consultants. The songwriting was left more or less alone, though, and there was still the divide between the credible (Aztec Camera, Prefab Sprout) and the less credible (Stock Aitken and Waterman). You could still be a credible, less-good-looking pop singer, but the stylists would put a bit of slap on before the photographer came in.
Into the 90s and performers were increasingly being selected by record companies for their all-round ability to sing, dance and having the looks - the boyband phenomenon. Who, it's been noted very often by their long-suffering managers, always wanted at some point to become credible musicians by writing their own material.
Morrisette was a fairly early example of what has become standard music industry practise - to team a performer (who has ideas) with a songwriter (often one of those people who had the songwriting technique, but not the looks or charisma to carry them to success). The song was still a personal expression, but in coalition with someone who had the knowledge that could edit the expression to be effective, and present it in a generally pleasing way. So, yes, she did write the songs, but so did Glen Ballard. It's really not fair to say that either of them was the "true" author of the album, as it probably wouldn't have been as effective without either.
(Of course, having a songwriting credit is a pretty good way to make sure you get paid.)
On the whole my personal opinion is that songwriting technique in general has dwindled somewhat all round (my personal favourite example is in the chorus to Skyfall where Adele and her co-writer Paul Epworth build to a big climax halfway through the chorus and literally have no idea of where to go next, so she just wibbles around for a bit. I can think of a couple of more effective places John Barry might have taken it, but am also very aware that Adele is an enormously famous and well-loved performer and Paul Epworth is a very successful songwriter with many awards on his mantlepiece, whereas I'm neither famous, successful nor well-loved and I don't even have a mantlepiece).
posted by Grangousier at 1:34 AM on November 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
Now it's the evening and the coffee has worn off and... huh, that was a lot of typing to lecture people about things they probably already knew.
posted by Grangousier at 12:51 PM on November 18, 2015
posted by Grangousier at 12:51 PM on November 18, 2015
From the Beatles onwards, there was the notion that a "proper" band or musician did pretty much everything themselves,
Then during the 80s, the record company took over the presentation of the performers. There were stylists and various consultants.
The Beatles are sort of an outlier in many ways, though. I think the mid-60s was actually the heyday for partnering singers with songwriters and record companies adding gloss.
I mean, Motown, hello.
posted by desuetude at 7:24 AM on November 19, 2015
Then during the 80s, the record company took over the presentation of the performers. There were stylists and various consultants.
The Beatles are sort of an outlier in many ways, though. I think the mid-60s was actually the heyday for partnering singers with songwriters and record companies adding gloss.
I mean, Motown, hello.
posted by desuetude at 7:24 AM on November 19, 2015
was a lot of typing to lecture people about things they probably already knew.
I knew none of that and thoroughly enjoyed reading it.
posted by Michele in California at 10:25 AM on November 19, 2015
I knew none of that and thoroughly enjoyed reading it.
posted by Michele in California at 10:25 AM on November 19, 2015
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HE'S JUST SOME GUY
HOW MANY TIMES MUST WE GO OVER THIS
posted by Sys Rq at 11:35 AM on November 13, 2015 [42 favorites]