Sprint football at Princeton
November 18, 2015 7:12 AM Subscribe
And here’s the thing: This team that you’re making all these sacrifices for — this team for which you are giving up your body, your Friday nights, your hair — this team hasn’t won a game in 16 years. That’s right. Sixteen years. Zero victories. The Tigers have lost so many games in a row that everybody has lost count. Ninety-eight? But what about forfeits? That would make it 102, or maybe 103. Truth is, no one counts consecutive losses as closely as consecutive wins.
Sprint football originated in 1934, created by University of Pennsylvania president Thomas Sovereign Gates, who wanted to give smaller kids a chance to play the sport.
This is a good idea. It should be applied to other sports. How about a men's soccer league with a minimum weight per player above average? Bigger kids don't have a chance to play that sport worth a damn. Or basketball with a low max height?
As a crackpot, I've always been annoyed that sports where size is an advantage has weight classes and where it's a disadvantage there are not. Heavyweight track, yo! The time is now!
Or not. God, I hated track.
[shakes fist at hurdles]
posted by Harvey Jerkwater at 7:49 AM on November 18, 2015 [5 favorites]
This is a good idea. It should be applied to other sports. How about a men's soccer league with a minimum weight per player above average? Bigger kids don't have a chance to play that sport worth a damn. Or basketball with a low max height?
As a crackpot, I've always been annoyed that sports where size is an advantage has weight classes and where it's a disadvantage there are not. Heavyweight track, yo! The time is now!
Or not. God, I hated track.
[shakes fist at hurdles]
posted by Harvey Jerkwater at 7:49 AM on November 18, 2015 [5 favorites]
So it's not clear in TFA: is this a varsity sport, or a club sport ? (they reference the varsity team, but then say "no scholarships", but then again the academies don't do scholarships either)
Because reading about it reminds me of playing club sports in college. Some schools recruit for club sports - they have paid coaches and full rosters (and might even have cuts). Some schools that have a varsity team also have a club team that varsity guys might "drop down" to if they don't want to play varsity any more, but still want to play the sport.
That said, seems something I would have tried if I went to such a school.
posted by k5.user at 7:57 AM on November 18, 2015
Because reading about it reminds me of playing club sports in college. Some schools recruit for club sports - they have paid coaches and full rosters (and might even have cuts). Some schools that have a varsity team also have a club team that varsity guys might "drop down" to if they don't want to play varsity any more, but still want to play the sport.
That said, seems something I would have tried if I went to such a school.
posted by k5.user at 7:57 AM on November 18, 2015
Harvey Jerkwater, I think that's more or less how BASEketball starts.
Steeeeeeeeeve Perry!
posted by lmfsilva at 8:01 AM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Steeeeeeeeeve Perry!
posted by lmfsilva at 8:01 AM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Heavyweight track, yo! The time is now!
Those poor knees.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:06 AM on November 18, 2015
Those poor knees.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:06 AM on November 18, 2015
I like this. Everyone should have a chance to play sports, and while wrestling and boxing have weight classes (for obvious reasons), it's nice to see that there are also a few football teams out there for the light-weights amongst us.
Surprisingly, there have been basketball leagues with a maximum height: the minor-league WBL limited itself to players under 6 feet.
posted by math at 8:10 AM on November 18, 2015
Surprisingly, there have been basketball leagues with a maximum height: the minor-league WBL limited itself to players under 6 feet.
posted by math at 8:10 AM on November 18, 2015
k5.user: "So it's not clear in TFA: is this a varsity sport, or a club sport ? (they reference the varsity team, but then say "no scholarships", but then again the academies don't do scholarships either)"
It's varsity, but not an NCAA sport. It's played by a few Ivies, a couple military academies, and like two other random Northeastern schools. You can earn your varsity letter and get on the varsity roster for your university and belong to the varsity club for alumni and all that stuff, but the NCAA doesn't recognize or regulate it because it's so tiny. My brother played sprint football in college and really enjoyed it; it's basically regular-sized guys of a medium level of athleticism, who were not sports stars in high school but who enjoy team sports to keep physically active and in shape, and it's a nice league because everyone else is regular-sized guys who weren't stars in high school who just like to play team sports to keep active. He was at one of the few schools with a full-size football team as well as a sprint team, and he said the full-size guys thought they were all just ADORABLE (in a nice, affectionate way, not a condescending way), these little not-super-athletic guys playing teeny football. The guys who are actually good play full-size football, so the sprint football is the medium size, medium athletic, medium klutzy sorts of guys who love the game but are kind-of pickup weekend empty-lot players otherwise.
In the Midwest a lot of these sorts of guys seem to play rugby in college, but typically that's an intercollegiate club sport and you can't get an actual varsity letter for it.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:20 AM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's varsity, but not an NCAA sport. It's played by a few Ivies, a couple military academies, and like two other random Northeastern schools. You can earn your varsity letter and get on the varsity roster for your university and belong to the varsity club for alumni and all that stuff, but the NCAA doesn't recognize or regulate it because it's so tiny. My brother played sprint football in college and really enjoyed it; it's basically regular-sized guys of a medium level of athleticism, who were not sports stars in high school but who enjoy team sports to keep physically active and in shape, and it's a nice league because everyone else is regular-sized guys who weren't stars in high school who just like to play team sports to keep active. He was at one of the few schools with a full-size football team as well as a sprint team, and he said the full-size guys thought they were all just ADORABLE (in a nice, affectionate way, not a condescending way), these little not-super-athletic guys playing teeny football. The guys who are actually good play full-size football, so the sprint football is the medium size, medium athletic, medium klutzy sorts of guys who love the game but are kind-of pickup weekend empty-lot players otherwise.
In the Midwest a lot of these sorts of guys seem to play rugby in college, but typically that's an intercollegiate club sport and you can't get an actual varsity letter for it.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:20 AM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh, my brother played high school football at a high school known for its ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE football team (longest losing streak in the state!) and was third string even there; his other sport was marching band. Sprint football in college, where he was considered a solid utility player. Now he's a jogger but he misses team sports.
Also their big fundraising thing is during homecoming weekend they hold sprint football scrimmages between the current varsity team and any alumni who come back; the alumni have to pay a per-pound weight penalty to play for every pound over 172. They use that money to fund their road trips for away games.
It's really a pretty adorable sport.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:25 AM on November 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
Also their big fundraising thing is during homecoming weekend they hold sprint football scrimmages between the current varsity team and any alumni who come back; the alumni have to pay a per-pound weight penalty to play for every pound over 172. They use that money to fund their road trips for away games.
It's really a pretty adorable sport.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:25 AM on November 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
Those poor knees.
The chance to see a blowout is how you attract the NASCAR audience.
posted by Appropriate Username at 8:34 AM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
The chance to see a blowout is how you attract the NASCAR audience.
posted by Appropriate Username at 8:34 AM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Thanks for posting, gripping longform. This part stood out: "In fact, the same night Princeton played Army, 17-year-old quarterback Evan Murray suffered a fatal injury while playing for Warren Hills Regional High School— just 45 miles north of Princeton. According to the website of the Summit High School team — Warren Hills’ opponent that night — the average weight of their starting defensive linemen was 265 pounds, nearly 100 pounds greater than the limit for sprint football."
265lb average lineman weight on a high school team? For Christ's sake
posted by aydeejones at 8:50 AM on November 18, 2015
265lb average lineman weight on a high school team? For Christ's sake
posted by aydeejones at 8:50 AM on November 18, 2015
Fun fact: Donald Rumsfeld played sprint football at Princeton.
posted by kevinbelt at 8:59 AM on November 18, 2015
posted by kevinbelt at 8:59 AM on November 18, 2015
Also I am a 35 year old man getting back into fitness. It's a shame that it truly is a separate "thing" attached to its own culture(s) and that America seems to be less and less of a place where you'll see a bunch of random kids just playing a game even if they "suck" at it. There's a catch 22 where people know they "suck" and never want to be embarrassed by trying to get better.
I lament how poor physical education is in public schools. Largely my experience was that it reinforces existing prejudices and stereotypes and showcases the naturally talented kids while the other side of the scale learns to hate everything about fitness. You aren't trained on how to progressively perform a pull up with weeks of training (and not grueling training, how about a few assisted attempts every few days?). You just flounder and get laughed at and the four guys who can naturally do it, do it. It's all kind of a farce that makes less active kids want to be even less active. Then as you get older the pretense of everyone playing together fades away and the talented athletes play on teams and are glorified. High schools offer bowling classes which are fun but in all honesty don't promote fitness and are simply a way to avoid having to run and sweat. There's not a lot of room for this idea of having less massive / less talented players simply having some fun. Junior varsity gets mocked and the whole system just reinforces a hierarchy of "active jocks" and "inactive nerds." Nerds come to associate physical activity with being an undesirable jerky person. They grow increasingly distant from the entire concept of physical activity.
If we're lucky like I was, we might fall in love with a person who loves us as we are but helps us get active, or we might decide at some point to push through all of the discomfort that comes with getting into shape, and then we do it. Usually we are too young and easily disillusioned and set back to achieve it on the first or third or fourth try. This is probably my fifth try as an adult and it's only because I know I want to be alive as long as possible for my kids that I truly believe I will succeed.
I'm really into weight training now and remember doing it in high school. The coach said "every man should be able to bench at least 80% of his body weight by the end of the semester" and proceeded to teach everyone nothing about progressive overload or anything useful beyond "load as much weight as you can bear so no one thinks you're a pussy, and then grunt a bunch and have a spotter do most of the work." Naturally the kids who could already bench 80% were successful at the end of the semester and the rest of us had no fucks to give. As an adult it took me weeks of rotator cuff strengthening before I could bench even 40%. Thanks for all that "physical education" yo.
posted by aydeejones at 9:04 AM on November 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
I lament how poor physical education is in public schools. Largely my experience was that it reinforces existing prejudices and stereotypes and showcases the naturally talented kids while the other side of the scale learns to hate everything about fitness. You aren't trained on how to progressively perform a pull up with weeks of training (and not grueling training, how about a few assisted attempts every few days?). You just flounder and get laughed at and the four guys who can naturally do it, do it. It's all kind of a farce that makes less active kids want to be even less active. Then as you get older the pretense of everyone playing together fades away and the talented athletes play on teams and are glorified. High schools offer bowling classes which are fun but in all honesty don't promote fitness and are simply a way to avoid having to run and sweat. There's not a lot of room for this idea of having less massive / less talented players simply having some fun. Junior varsity gets mocked and the whole system just reinforces a hierarchy of "active jocks" and "inactive nerds." Nerds come to associate physical activity with being an undesirable jerky person. They grow increasingly distant from the entire concept of physical activity.
If we're lucky like I was, we might fall in love with a person who loves us as we are but helps us get active, or we might decide at some point to push through all of the discomfort that comes with getting into shape, and then we do it. Usually we are too young and easily disillusioned and set back to achieve it on the first or third or fourth try. This is probably my fifth try as an adult and it's only because I know I want to be alive as long as possible for my kids that I truly believe I will succeed.
I'm really into weight training now and remember doing it in high school. The coach said "every man should be able to bench at least 80% of his body weight by the end of the semester" and proceeded to teach everyone nothing about progressive overload or anything useful beyond "load as much weight as you can bear so no one thinks you're a pussy, and then grunt a bunch and have a spotter do most of the work." Naturally the kids who could already bench 80% were successful at the end of the semester and the rest of us had no fucks to give. As an adult it took me weeks of rotator cuff strengthening before I could bench even 40%. Thanks for all that "physical education" yo.
posted by aydeejones at 9:04 AM on November 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
aydeejones -- ultimate frisbee is this sport. it's non-contact, gender specific or mixed. yes, there are now collegiate programs that recruit top players, but on most levels there's a still a wide range of athleticism on the field, and since it's (still mostly) self officiated, players are responsible for keeping it safe, mostly fun, yet highly competitive. see if there's a program available for your kids.
great read -- nice to see a strong contender for 'now that grantland is gone what to read...'
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:10 AM on November 18, 2015
great read -- nice to see a strong contender for 'now that grantland is gone what to read...'
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:10 AM on November 18, 2015
Heavyweight track, yo!
On my high school track team at most meets there was a "throwers' relay" toward the end where the Field half of the Track and Field teams would run a relay race against each other. These weren't necessarily out of shape people, just larger than your average sprinter because their job was to throw a thing far. I was a (bad) middle-distance guy so I never actually ran in it but it was one of my favorite parts of being on that team. Since it wasn't a points event, nobody cheated and put ringers on the track and there was genuine effort and cheering and team spirit. The event didn't matter (not that any of them really mattered) at all but people still got into it.
I agree that we need to see more of this. This was a good read. I'd never heard of Sprint Football and I don't watch any football but things like this could change my mind.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 9:13 AM on November 18, 2015
On my high school track team at most meets there was a "throwers' relay" toward the end where the Field half of the Track and Field teams would run a relay race against each other. These weren't necessarily out of shape people, just larger than your average sprinter because their job was to throw a thing far. I was a (bad) middle-distance guy so I never actually ran in it but it was one of my favorite parts of being on that team. Since it wasn't a points event, nobody cheated and put ringers on the track and there was genuine effort and cheering and team spirit. The event didn't matter (not that any of them really mattered) at all but people still got into it.
I agree that we need to see more of this. This was a good read. I'd never heard of Sprint Football and I don't watch any football but things like this could change my mind.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 9:13 AM on November 18, 2015
On my high school track team at most meets there was a "throwers' relay" toward the end where the Field half of the Track and Field teams would run a relay race against each other.
See also: the 1500m at the end of the Decathlon. Seeing those (mostly) big, muscular dudes running middle distance is funny... until you realize after two days of competition they can still outrun every normal person out there, they're just not short skinny dude fast.
posted by lmfsilva at 10:10 AM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
See also: the 1500m at the end of the Decathlon. Seeing those (mostly) big, muscular dudes running middle distance is funny... until you realize after two days of competition they can still outrun every normal person out there, they're just not short skinny dude fast.
posted by lmfsilva at 10:10 AM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
This does seem really cool, but I'm not super convinced about it being a safer alternative to football. Sure, maybe you are taking away some of the risk of CTE, though my understanding is CTE is not due to the monumental hits, but to the accumulation of minor hits on every play. But you then add the added stress and workload of playing both ways, plus the dangers of cutting weight. I really would like to see a smaller (in league profile, not player-size) league like this try trading all or most of the hard pads in the game (helmets and shoulder pads, primarily) with softer rugby-style gear.
posted by Rock Steady at 10:36 AM on November 18, 2015
posted by Rock Steady at 10:36 AM on November 18, 2015
Heavyweight track, yo! The time is now!
Many road races & triathlons have Clydesdale/Athena divisions for larger folks.
posted by zakur at 11:28 AM on November 18, 2015
Many road races & triathlons have Clydesdale/Athena divisions for larger folks.
posted by zakur at 11:28 AM on November 18, 2015
Rock Steady: "This does seem really cool, but I'm not super convinced about it being a safer alternative to football. Sure, maybe you are taking away some of the risk of CTE, though my understanding is CTE is not due to the monumental hits, but to the accumulation of minor hits on every play. "
I'm not going to say it's NOT concussing people, especially given what we've learned about how many concussions kids can get playing sports like basketball and soccer, but I will say that watching my brother's games, 150-pound Ivy League nerds are not SUUUUUUUUPER enthusiastic about hitting and being hit. They run hard, and they slip and fall and tear their ACLs a lot, but I was fairly convinced they could play two-hand touch instead of tackle and it'd look pretty much the same.
I understand that Army and Navy play a more serious game (and thus consistently dominate the Ivies), but the Ivy games I saw were ... not as full-contact as "football" would suggest.
Definitely there are some players doing wrestling-type stupid things to make weight, but a lot of them are little-little guys who don't even come close to 172. (My brother had a couple friends who started weight training because they got to use the "real" football facilities, only to bulk up from 160# to around 175#, whose solution to make weight was, "Man, we gotta play more XBox and lift less weights." It worked.) They only play 7 games a season and forfeits because you can't field enough guys because they're studying for midterms is relatively routine.
Rock Steady: " I really would like to see a smaller (in league profile, not player-size) league like this try trading all or most of the hard pads in the game (helmets and shoulder pads, primarily) with softer rugby-style gear."
Women's college club football (there is such a thing!) is no gear, flag football. It's pretty fun. It's basically exactly like playing empty-lot pickup football.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:38 AM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm not going to say it's NOT concussing people, especially given what we've learned about how many concussions kids can get playing sports like basketball and soccer, but I will say that watching my brother's games, 150-pound Ivy League nerds are not SUUUUUUUUPER enthusiastic about hitting and being hit. They run hard, and they slip and fall and tear their ACLs a lot, but I was fairly convinced they could play two-hand touch instead of tackle and it'd look pretty much the same.
I understand that Army and Navy play a more serious game (and thus consistently dominate the Ivies), but the Ivy games I saw were ... not as full-contact as "football" would suggest.
Definitely there are some players doing wrestling-type stupid things to make weight, but a lot of them are little-little guys who don't even come close to 172. (My brother had a couple friends who started weight training because they got to use the "real" football facilities, only to bulk up from 160# to around 175#, whose solution to make weight was, "Man, we gotta play more XBox and lift less weights." It worked.) They only play 7 games a season and forfeits because you can't field enough guys because they're studying for midterms is relatively routine.
Rock Steady: " I really would like to see a smaller (in league profile, not player-size) league like this try trading all or most of the hard pads in the game (helmets and shoulder pads, primarily) with softer rugby-style gear."
Women's college club football (there is such a thing!) is no gear, flag football. It's pretty fun. It's basically exactly like playing empty-lot pickup football.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:38 AM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Eyebrows McGee: "I was fairly convinced they could play two-hand touch instead of tackle and it'd look pretty much the same."
That makes sense, but I guess I was looking at it as an alternative as in "What if Sprint Football replaced Regular Football?" In that case, I suspect the Alabamas and the Nebraskas and the Ohio States of Sprint Football would be playing just as hell-for-leather as they do now, and there sure as shit would be pressure on 185 lb guys to cut down to 172.
That women's football sounds cool. I already like women's ice hockey and women's soccer as much if not more than the men's equivalent.
posted by Rock Steady at 11:50 AM on November 18, 2015
That makes sense, but I guess I was looking at it as an alternative as in "What if Sprint Football replaced Regular Football?" In that case, I suspect the Alabamas and the Nebraskas and the Ohio States of Sprint Football would be playing just as hell-for-leather as they do now, and there sure as shit would be pressure on 185 lb guys to cut down to 172.
That women's football sounds cool. I already like women's ice hockey and women's soccer as much if not more than the men's equivalent.
posted by Rock Steady at 11:50 AM on November 18, 2015
I can't think of Princeton/Princeton football without being reminded of Jack Donaghy on 30Rock and his singing the Princeton "fight song" on the Queen of Jordan episode:
Oh the merry men of Princeton are charging up the rear, holding all the balls… ok I hear it now.
posted by discopolo at 1:18 PM on November 18, 2015
Oh the merry men of Princeton are charging up the rear, holding all the balls… ok I hear it now.
posted by discopolo at 1:18 PM on November 18, 2015
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When you put it that way, who wouldn't show up? I know I'd be pretty devoted to a team with such a perfect record.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:19 AM on November 18, 2015 [3 favorites]