precisely ZERO actresses of color in the Oscar conversation
November 18, 2015 10:27 AM Subscribe
Two years ago, I was thrilled that three of the six women on our roundtable were black: Oprah Winfrey, Lupita Nyong’o and Octavia Spencer. I thought, perhaps naively, that this represented a sea-change in the film business, and hoped it was catching up with the tectonic shifts that industries all across America have had to make to reflect this country’s diversity. But I was wrong. Stephen Galloway, in The Hollywood Reporter: Why Every Actress on The Hollywood Reporter Roundtable Cover Is White
Was just coming to say the same. You might think because it was a thoughtful, reflective piece that sought to understand more than start a ruckus that the comments might be okay. You would be wrongwrongwrong.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:40 AM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:40 AM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
This article is some superb but utterly meaningless hand wringing. If you want POC actresses on your cover, put them on the cover. If the metric you use to decide who goes on the cover results in a big pile of white ladies and you're embarressed by it, change the metric.
You actually do have to take action sometimes to make things better.
posted by selfnoise at 10:43 AM on November 18, 2015 [32 favorites]
You actually do have to take action sometimes to make things better.
posted by selfnoise at 10:43 AM on November 18, 2015 [32 favorites]
The thing is, selfnoise, that this is not just about their cover. Their cover reflects who is in contention for the Oscar, and that reflects Hollywood's ideas about who has given particularly notable performances in the past year. They could put black women on their cover, but that wouldn't change the fact that Hollywood doesn't think that a single black woman has given a notable performance in the past year, and it wouldn't change the fact that Hollywood doesn't offer the kind of roles to black actresses that could lead to Oscar nominations.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:49 AM on November 18, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:49 AM on November 18, 2015 [19 favorites]
Okay, now that the warning is out of the way:
I think the author is overoptimistic (of course last year wasn't a sea change, just like 2001-2002 wasn't a sea change despite Denzel Washington and Halle Berry winning Oscars) while totally overlooking his own complicity. Who determines "the conversation" if not the Hollywood Reporter, which invites people, hosts, takes pictures, and writes about it? If they wanted to push for diversity, put that on the cover. Of course, "THE ACTRESS ROUNDTABLE AND OH BY THE WAY WHERE ARE THE NONWHITE WOMEN" doesn't sell as well, and they certainly don't want to upset any of the women who are in "the conversation" by having their faces underneath a headline about racism in Hollywood.
And for the love of all that is holy, Stephen Galloway, you do not get a cookie for publicly wringing your hands over making the wrong fucking choice for the oh-sorry-just-barely-too-exclusive-for-F.-Gary-Gray roundtable.
posted by Etrigan at 10:49 AM on November 18, 2015 [12 favorites]
I think the author is overoptimistic (of course last year wasn't a sea change, just like 2001-2002 wasn't a sea change despite Denzel Washington and Halle Berry winning Oscars) while totally overlooking his own complicity. Who determines "the conversation" if not the Hollywood Reporter, which invites people, hosts, takes pictures, and writes about it? If they wanted to push for diversity, put that on the cover. Of course, "THE ACTRESS ROUNDTABLE AND OH BY THE WAY WHERE ARE THE NONWHITE WOMEN" doesn't sell as well, and they certainly don't want to upset any of the women who are in "the conversation" by having their faces underneath a headline about racism in Hollywood.
And for the love of all that is holy, Stephen Galloway, you do not get a cookie for publicly wringing your hands over making the wrong fucking choice for the oh-sorry-just-barely-too-exclusive-for-F.-Gary-Gray roundtable.
posted by Etrigan at 10:49 AM on November 18, 2015 [12 favorites]
The thing is, selfnoise, that this is not just about their cover. Their cover reflects who is in contention for the Oscar, and that reflects Hollywood's ideas about who has given particularly notable performances in the past year. They could put black women on their cover, but that wouldn't change the fact that Hollywood doesn't think that a single black woman has given a notable performance in the past year, and it wouldn't change the fact that Hollywood doesn't offer the kind of roles to black actresses that could lead to Oscar nominations.
Yes, but where does the change start? I don't read this magazine because you have got to be fucking kidding me, but I assume it's a trade publication aimed at least in part at the people who work in Hollywood and make these kind of decisions. In that context, isn't the choice giving further support to those same persons decisions to exclude POC? If you choose to erase POC actresses from film and then your trade media says "Ok, well, gotta be a mirror to society" then you've won, congratulations.
posted by selfnoise at 10:54 AM on November 18, 2015
Yes, but where does the change start? I don't read this magazine because you have got to be fucking kidding me, but I assume it's a trade publication aimed at least in part at the people who work in Hollywood and make these kind of decisions. In that context, isn't the choice giving further support to those same persons decisions to exclude POC? If you choose to erase POC actresses from film and then your trade media says "Ok, well, gotta be a mirror to society" then you've won, congratulations.
posted by selfnoise at 10:54 AM on November 18, 2015
"On our most recent directors roundtable, forced to choose among three superb filmmakers for one slot, I opted for Ridley Scott, rather than F. Gary Gray, an African-American. The Martian had opened to exceptional acclaim and box office, and Scott looked like the front runner for the Oscar; still, I now wish I had added Gray to the mix, and regret that I ignored both his lawyer’s and his agents’ pleas to do so."
He also was the one who selected the actors and actresses for their roundtables. So it seems as if the reason that all the actresses are white is that he picked a bunch of white actresses.
If the roundtables really are such important events, so integrated into the whole awards season run-up, then he should have the power to include people in them who aren't already presumptive victors. Why not mix it up? You know, Ridley Scott and Cate Blanchett will probably do fine.
posted by kenko at 10:54 AM on November 18, 2015 [7 favorites]
He also was the one who selected the actors and actresses for their roundtables. So it seems as if the reason that all the actresses are white is that he picked a bunch of white actresses.
If the roundtables really are such important events, so integrated into the whole awards season run-up, then he should have the power to include people in them who aren't already presumptive victors. Why not mix it up? You know, Ridley Scott and Cate Blanchett will probably do fine.
posted by kenko at 10:54 AM on November 18, 2015 [7 favorites]
IOW selfnoise is right. If the dude wants to know why all the actresses were white, he can look in a mirror.
posted by kenko at 10:55 AM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by kenko at 10:55 AM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
I mean, according to the post, the Hollywood Reporter is part of the Oscar conversation. They can decide who else is part of it by adding those people to their roundtables! Stop acting in bad faith!
posted by kenko at 11:01 AM on November 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by kenko at 11:01 AM on November 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
He also was the one who selected the actors and actresses for their roundtables. So it seems as if the reason that all the actresses are white is that he picked a bunch of white actresses.
Ha, right? It is very interesting that THR chose to acknowledge that their cover was all white. I don't think many publications who pull this sort of thing would try to head off any backlash (or even recognize it), but...there is a better way, and that is to include nonwhite players in the conversation.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 11:12 AM on November 18, 2015
Ha, right? It is very interesting that THR chose to acknowledge that their cover was all white. I don't think many publications who pull this sort of thing would try to head off any backlash (or even recognize it), but...there is a better way, and that is to include nonwhite players in the conversation.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 11:12 AM on November 18, 2015
Saying that one party isn't as responsible as another party for not inviting people of color to the table just is a matter of shifting blame. If there are no women of color up for the Oscar, then the magazines don't feature them, and if the magazines don't feature them, then the movie studios can claim they're not as popular, and not cast them, and if the movie studios don't cat them, then next year, there won't be any women of color up for the Oscar.
Someone, somewhere, in the horrible Hollywood machine has to do something. To say it's the wrong someone just perpetuates the issue.
posted by xingcat at 11:19 AM on November 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
Someone, somewhere, in the horrible Hollywood machine has to do something. To say it's the wrong someone just perpetuates the issue.
posted by xingcat at 11:19 AM on November 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't follow movies enough to know, but is there someone who should be up for the Oscar and isn't in the conversation? Because a lot of the problem is not just that WOC aren't being acknowledged, but also that they aren't being given the parts.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:25 AM on November 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:25 AM on November 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
Comments on the article have been nuked from orbit and locked, five and a half hours after it was posted, so I can only assume that escalated quickly.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:28 AM on November 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:28 AM on November 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
I note the actresses depicted are mostly blond too.
I think the author is right -- the industry isn't making the movies that offer opportunities to the hugely talented pool of WOC. Think about what's out in theatres right now, during the season when Oscar bait movies are released.
posted by bearwife at 11:32 AM on November 18, 2015
I think the author is right -- the industry isn't making the movies that offer opportunities to the hugely talented pool of WOC. Think about what's out in theatres right now, during the season when Oscar bait movies are released.
posted by bearwife at 11:32 AM on November 18, 2015
If there are no women of color up for the Oscar, then the magazines don't feature them...
Just to clarify (I'm trying to amplify your comments, not argue with them), literally every woman who appeared in a motion picture released in 2015 is currently "up for the Oscar". These early articles about "the conversation" are the result of relentless campaigns that start even before performers are cast -- if those campaigners wanted to push Lupita Nyong'o for a Best Actress Oscar in 2015, they would do so by first finding an appropriately Oscar-baity role for her, and Hollywood has long decided that if the actress doesn't need to be African-American, she won't be (take a look at every such nominee and see what they have in common -- the role is explicitly an African-American one). THR selecting these particular eight women to feature is a gateway, and it's one that's greatly molded by those years-long campaigns.
posted by Etrigan at 11:38 AM on November 18, 2015 [5 favorites]
Just to clarify (I'm trying to amplify your comments, not argue with them), literally every woman who appeared in a motion picture released in 2015 is currently "up for the Oscar". These early articles about "the conversation" are the result of relentless campaigns that start even before performers are cast -- if those campaigners wanted to push Lupita Nyong'o for a Best Actress Oscar in 2015, they would do so by first finding an appropriately Oscar-baity role for her, and Hollywood has long decided that if the actress doesn't need to be African-American, she won't be (take a look at every such nominee and see what they have in common -- the role is explicitly an African-American one). THR selecting these particular eight women to feature is a gateway, and it's one that's greatly molded by those years-long campaigns.
posted by Etrigan at 11:38 AM on November 18, 2015 [5 favorites]
I don't understand why so many people are giving the author a hard time for not realizing he's part of the problem and therefore part of the solution when he admits several times in the article that he and his magazine are part of the problem and therefore part of the solution.
I mean, there's a saying I've seen attributed to Lily Tomlin and have also heard people in progressive movements use: "I always wondered why somebody didn't do something about that and then I realized I am somebody." This is uplifting for people who otherwise feel marginalized, but it's also Step 1 for being an ally with privilege.
In any event, his noticing a lack of women of color and the need to do something about it is more than a great many white males who consider themselves feminist ever get around to doing. While there's some uncertainty about the authenticity of Sojourner Truth's armor-piercing question, the sentiment she expressed has long been a part of the conversation among WoC feminists, who certainly notice that a lot of white mens' feminism is effectively Attractive White Womanism despite claims of unbiased and truly egalitarian advocacy.
So I applaud Mr. Galloway. I hope this epiphany leads to him taking action and encouraging other gatekeepers to take action. Thanks for the post, everybody had matching towels.
posted by lord_wolf at 11:40 AM on November 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
I mean, there's a saying I've seen attributed to Lily Tomlin and have also heard people in progressive movements use: "I always wondered why somebody didn't do something about that and then I realized I am somebody." This is uplifting for people who otherwise feel marginalized, but it's also Step 1 for being an ally with privilege.
In any event, his noticing a lack of women of color and the need to do something about it is more than a great many white males who consider themselves feminist ever get around to doing. While there's some uncertainty about the authenticity of Sojourner Truth's armor-piercing question, the sentiment she expressed has long been a part of the conversation among WoC feminists, who certainly notice that a lot of white mens' feminism is effectively Attractive White Womanism despite claims of unbiased and truly egalitarian advocacy.
So I applaud Mr. Galloway. I hope this epiphany leads to him taking action and encouraging other gatekeepers to take action. Thanks for the post, everybody had matching towels.
posted by lord_wolf at 11:40 AM on November 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
selfnoise makes a point that this is a trade publication. Articles like this are repeated each year with a fixed criteria, which seems to be who'll be big in the awards this year. Is it the magazines fault that there are no significant awards lined up for female POC's? Is the fault the people that can 'greenlight' a film?
The CEO of the mega-corporation that keeps the greenlighter on a tight leash? The board of the mega-corp that listens to current market trends? The big data engineer that hacks the data that feeds the trend white paper that tricks the marketeer that wheedles the board that leans on the CEO that wines the greenlighter, that hires the producer, that gives notes to the director, that harangues the casting director, who ignores the script directions, which didn't exist because the Data Scientist is moonlighting as the screenwriter and didn't care this year? I think it was the screenwriters apprentice that swallowed the fly.
posted by sammyo at 11:56 AM on November 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
The CEO of the mega-corporation that keeps the greenlighter on a tight leash? The board of the mega-corp that listens to current market trends? The big data engineer that hacks the data that feeds the trend white paper that tricks the marketeer that wheedles the board that leans on the CEO that wines the greenlighter, that hires the producer, that gives notes to the director, that harangues the casting director, who ignores the script directions, which didn't exist because the Data Scientist is moonlighting as the screenwriter and didn't care this year? I think it was the screenwriters apprentice that swallowed the fly.
posted by sammyo at 11:56 AM on November 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
it’s a relief that, while the movie business could not find leading roles for Viola Davis
Is that the same Viola Davis that has a leading role in Lila & Eve (for which she's got an outside chance of an Oscar according to the bookies)?
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:01 PM on November 18, 2015
Is that the same Viola Davis that has a leading role in Lila & Eve (for which she's got an outside chance of an Oscar according to the bookies)?
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:01 PM on November 18, 2015
Women of color that could be nominated for Oscars this year:
Dascha Polanco for Joy
Ama K. Abebrese for Beast of No Nation
Tessa Thompson for Creed
Kitana Kiki Rodriguez and Mya Taylor of Tangerine
That's off the top of my head.
posted by maxsparber at 12:29 PM on November 18, 2015
Dascha Polanco for Joy
Ama K. Abebrese for Beast of No Nation
Tessa Thompson for Creed
Kitana Kiki Rodriguez and Mya Taylor of Tangerine
That's off the top of my head.
posted by maxsparber at 12:29 PM on November 18, 2015
Yeah, this is bullshit.
I mean, unless I'm misunderstanding the roundtables, they are picked by the magazine, often before the movie season even really starts and the editors rely upon word-of-mouth, buzz and whoever is being pushed by the movie studios. But they still seem to have discretion over who they choose and there are no real parameters they must adhere to (e.g. only women who are nominated for something are eligible).
If that's true, then the solution is obvious. Pick more POC. Put it on your list of things to do next year to remind yourself if you're at risk of forgetting. This whole things seems super mealy-mouthed, like - oh, it's so sad how POC get the shaft and we contribute to it, but oh [some other weak excuse as to why they couldn't do it]. It's bullshit. This makes me think of Etrigan's rule of thumb (which I really like and I hope I'm not misrepresenting you here, Etrigan) that whenever a person puts out this long list of opposite things (in this case: I'm bad and did a bad thing/It's not my fault), that the last thing they list is what they really believe, in their heart of hearts. Here's the last two paragraphs of this article (emphasis mine):
If there were far more minority men and women to choose from, this sort of hand-wringing would never exist...
Unless the half-dozen men and women now running the major studios demand and foster a culture of diversity, the status quo will continue as it is. And I’ll be writing a mea culpa every year.
So yeah, a whole article of - oh this is terrible, followed by two reasons why the editors aren't responsible - 1) there aren't enough people for them to choose from and, 2) the handful of people running studios aren't doing their job. Bullshit.
And this kind of writing:
In doing all that this year, as we prepared for this cover, we discovered precisely ZERO actresses of color in the Oscar conversation — at least in the weeks starting early September when the roundtables are put together, weeks before they take place and months before the nominations are announced January 14.
is throughout the article and reminds me very much of this. Here's how the above paragraph should have been written:
We did not choose any actresses of color.
posted by triggerfinger at 1:05 PM on November 18, 2015 [5 favorites]
I mean, unless I'm misunderstanding the roundtables, they are picked by the magazine, often before the movie season even really starts and the editors rely upon word-of-mouth, buzz and whoever is being pushed by the movie studios. But they still seem to have discretion over who they choose and there are no real parameters they must adhere to (e.g. only women who are nominated for something are eligible).
If that's true, then the solution is obvious. Pick more POC. Put it on your list of things to do next year to remind yourself if you're at risk of forgetting. This whole things seems super mealy-mouthed, like - oh, it's so sad how POC get the shaft and we contribute to it, but oh [some other weak excuse as to why they couldn't do it]. It's bullshit. This makes me think of Etrigan's rule of thumb (which I really like and I hope I'm not misrepresenting you here, Etrigan) that whenever a person puts out this long list of opposite things (in this case: I'm bad and did a bad thing/It's not my fault), that the last thing they list is what they really believe, in their heart of hearts. Here's the last two paragraphs of this article (emphasis mine):
If there were far more minority men and women to choose from, this sort of hand-wringing would never exist...
Unless the half-dozen men and women now running the major studios demand and foster a culture of diversity, the status quo will continue as it is. And I’ll be writing a mea culpa every year.
So yeah, a whole article of - oh this is terrible, followed by two reasons why the editors aren't responsible - 1) there aren't enough people for them to choose from and, 2) the handful of people running studios aren't doing their job. Bullshit.
And this kind of writing:
In doing all that this year, as we prepared for this cover, we discovered precisely ZERO actresses of color in the Oscar conversation — at least in the weeks starting early September when the roundtables are put together, weeks before they take place and months before the nominations are announced January 14.
is throughout the article and reminds me very much of this. Here's how the above paragraph should have been written:
We did not choose any actresses of color.
posted by triggerfinger at 1:05 PM on November 18, 2015 [5 favorites]
Exactly. He was doing a pretty good job of laying out how there is a cycle of no roles for people of color and few or no producers/directors/power brokers of color which leads to difficulty in finding actresses of color to feature.
Then he demonstrates how it does not matter at all if there is an excellent director/actress/writer of color available to feature, he's just going to pick the rich white guy/skinny white woman they've been featuring for the last 30 years.
So, really, he's just demonstrated that the onus is on him and he's not interested in making more inclusive choices.
posted by crush-onastick at 1:27 PM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Then he demonstrates how it does not matter at all if there is an excellent director/actress/writer of color available to feature, he's just going to pick the rich white guy/skinny white woman they've been featuring for the last 30 years.
So, really, he's just demonstrated that the onus is on him and he's not interested in making more inclusive choices.
posted by crush-onastick at 1:27 PM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
I read this magazine weekly and have a subscription to it at work. It's a trade publication that is available to consumers. Here's their profile from Cision:
Editorial Profile / Background: Re-launched in November 2010 and focused on both the business perspective and consumer angle of the international entertainment industry from all mediums. Includes coverage of film, TV, music, home video, the Internet and other digital media outlets. Also includes style coverage, entertainment gossip, labor relations and celebrities. Offers reviews and ratings, production listings and announcements, script closings and deals, interviews, filmmaker profiles and box office charts both domestic and international. Contains articles on purchases of rights for films, reviews, financial news of entertainment industry companies, personnel news and information on film, TV, pre-production, producers, distributors, Web and multimedia, industry resources and music. Departments include: The Report; About Town focused on Hollywood gossip; The Business focused on entertainment industry news; Style focused on celebrity fashion and lifestyles; Reviews; and Backlot.
Target Audience: This publication targets managers, owners and executives involved in the entertainment industry; 73% of readers are top management, and 72% are film and TV producers. The average household income of readers is $378,398, and 29% are millionaires. The average age of readers is 42. Since its 2010 relaunch, its target audience also includes consumers, and it is available to subscribers as well as readers at Barnes & Noble nationwide, and in L.A., at local newsstands, in Gelson's and Bristol Farms markets, and airport newsstands.
-------
There were no non-white actors or actresses nominated for the 2015 Oscars. All 20 nominees in the acting categories announced in January were white.
I actually thought that THR was working to help change that. The most recent issue I received (11/20) has Taraji P. Henson and Ashunta Sherriff on the cover, And came bundled with an "Awards Playbook" issue that has an ad for Netflix' new Nina Simone documentary on the cover. They've been part of the ongoing criticism of the industry's lack of diversity -- a potential voice of change because their audience is exactly who should be hearing that PoC need better, respectful representation in a very White industry.
Which makes it all the more surprising and disappointing that they chose not to highlight even one woman of color on the Oscars cover. FFS. They have the ability to steer the conversation, not just report it passively. The article mentions that there are three men of color on the upcoming Actors roundtable cover. Okay, but they need to do better than this.
posted by zarq at 1:38 PM on November 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
Editorial Profile / Background: Re-launched in November 2010 and focused on both the business perspective and consumer angle of the international entertainment industry from all mediums. Includes coverage of film, TV, music, home video, the Internet and other digital media outlets. Also includes style coverage, entertainment gossip, labor relations and celebrities. Offers reviews and ratings, production listings and announcements, script closings and deals, interviews, filmmaker profiles and box office charts both domestic and international. Contains articles on purchases of rights for films, reviews, financial news of entertainment industry companies, personnel news and information on film, TV, pre-production, producers, distributors, Web and multimedia, industry resources and music. Departments include: The Report; About Town focused on Hollywood gossip; The Business focused on entertainment industry news; Style focused on celebrity fashion and lifestyles; Reviews; and Backlot.
Target Audience: This publication targets managers, owners and executives involved in the entertainment industry; 73% of readers are top management, and 72% are film and TV producers. The average household income of readers is $378,398, and 29% are millionaires. The average age of readers is 42. Since its 2010 relaunch, its target audience also includes consumers, and it is available to subscribers as well as readers at Barnes & Noble nationwide, and in L.A., at local newsstands, in Gelson's and Bristol Farms markets, and airport newsstands.
-------
There were no non-white actors or actresses nominated for the 2015 Oscars. All 20 nominees in the acting categories announced in January were white.
I actually thought that THR was working to help change that. The most recent issue I received (11/20) has Taraji P. Henson and Ashunta Sherriff on the cover, And came bundled with an "Awards Playbook" issue that has an ad for Netflix' new Nina Simone documentary on the cover. They've been part of the ongoing criticism of the industry's lack of diversity -- a potential voice of change because their audience is exactly who should be hearing that PoC need better, respectful representation in a very White industry.
Which makes it all the more surprising and disappointing that they chose not to highlight even one woman of color on the Oscars cover. FFS. They have the ability to steer the conversation, not just report it passively. The article mentions that there are three men of color on the upcoming Actors roundtable cover. Okay, but they need to do better than this.
posted by zarq at 1:38 PM on November 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
I note the actresses depicted are mostly blond too.
Disturbingly enough, most of them are also the same exact shade of white. Porcelain white. And the same shade of blonde.
It's a little creepy.
posted by discopolo at 2:17 PM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Disturbingly enough, most of them are also the same exact shade of white. Porcelain white. And the same shade of blonde.
It's a little creepy.
posted by discopolo at 2:17 PM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Dascha Polanco for Joy, Ama K. Abebrese for Beast of No Nation, Tessa Thompson for Creed, Kitana Kiki Rodriguez and Mya Taylor of Tangerine.
Hmm. For me, that's a no, a meh, a yeah-maybe, and a meh.
Not to be all ArbitraryAndCapricious, since she seems spot on to me here already, but this really didn't seem like a great year for AA actresses, in particular, in terms of great work getting onto big screens. Unfortunate, but it seems sort of natural, rather than nefarious, that awards season would reflect that.
I mean, maybe I'm being wide-eyed and naive, and I'll certainly grant that we're not yet at a point where we can just assume that all our great actresses have opportunities at all the great parts, but maybe this particular award season lacks a solid Lupita Nyong’o or Octavia Spencer type nominee because, you know, there was no really amazing Lupita Nyong’o or Octavia Spencer type performance this year?
Because, you know, last year was pretty incredible, and not because the Academy suddenly got enabled by a progressive agenda and tried extra-special hard to nominate black actresses. There were just some amazing performances that obviously would not be passed over, regardless of matters of color, and no special effort was needed to find them.
I don't like the feeling we're now retrospectively marginalizing those as if they were only-there-because-they-were-black.
posted by rokusan at 3:07 PM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hmm. For me, that's a no, a meh, a yeah-maybe, and a meh.
Not to be all ArbitraryAndCapricious, since she seems spot on to me here already, but this really didn't seem like a great year for AA actresses, in particular, in terms of great work getting onto big screens. Unfortunate, but it seems sort of natural, rather than nefarious, that awards season would reflect that.
I mean, maybe I'm being wide-eyed and naive, and I'll certainly grant that we're not yet at a point where we can just assume that all our great actresses have opportunities at all the great parts, but maybe this particular award season lacks a solid Lupita Nyong’o or Octavia Spencer type nominee because, you know, there was no really amazing Lupita Nyong’o or Octavia Spencer type performance this year?
Because, you know, last year was pretty incredible, and not because the Academy suddenly got enabled by a progressive agenda and tried extra-special hard to nominate black actresses. There were just some amazing performances that obviously would not be passed over, regardless of matters of color, and no special effort was needed to find them.
I don't like the feeling we're now retrospectively marginalizing those as if they were only-there-because-they-were-black.
posted by rokusan at 3:07 PM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Dascha Polanco for Joy, Ama K. Abebrese for Beast of No Nation, Tessa Thompson for Creed, Kitana Kiki Rodriguez and Mya Taylor of Tangerine.
Hmm. For me, that's a no, a meh, a yeah-maybe, and a meh.
Just out of curiosity: Joy and Creed aren't out yet, on what grounds are you dismissing them?
posted by everybody had matching towels at 5:05 PM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hmm. For me, that's a no, a meh, a yeah-maybe, and a meh.
Just out of curiosity: Joy and Creed aren't out yet, on what grounds are you dismissing them?
posted by everybody had matching towels at 5:05 PM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
It was their decision to use the cover line "The Great Eight," rather than, for instance, "The Oscar Race Is On." You cannot explicitly endorse a broken metric for greatness and then shrug it off by pointing out that the metric is broken. You didn't create the metric, but you contributed to the sloppy equating of that metric with quality/greatness, and that's your choice to account for.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 5:05 PM on November 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Linda_Holmes at 5:05 PM on November 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
Skidoodleybop postscript for EHMT: Creed has been showing in sneaks all over America for a couple of weeks now, and if you're in any kind of major center you can definitely nose your way in to see it. I saw Joy more than a month ago at an semi-insider screening in LA; not sure if it's been shown any wider than that since, but as they're busy trying to build up Oscar cred, I strongly suspect it has been.
(Off-topic spoiler: Joy is the better of those two films by far, even if it is fun to see Stallone palooka-ing around again. It might just be DOR's hand at work, but in case it's more than that, I may need to start taking Jennifer Lawrence seriously now.)
(Also, though, and still: Tangerine is better.)
posted by rokusan at 6:24 PM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
(Off-topic spoiler: Joy is the better of those two films by far, even if it is fun to see Stallone palooka-ing around again. It might just be DOR's hand at work, but in case it's more than that, I may need to start taking Jennifer Lawrence seriously now.)
(Also, though, and still: Tangerine is better.)
posted by rokusan at 6:24 PM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Linda, perhaps it was a little tone deaf, but the title is an allusion to that other Big Christmas Movie, the one not represented on the magazine's cover by Jennifer Jason Leigh.
posted by rokusan at 6:32 PM on November 18, 2015
posted by rokusan at 6:32 PM on November 18, 2015
This is like, a masterclass in white guilt, and why it ranges from zero value to actively harmful. It's so good that i have to wonder if it will be used as course material in an ethnic and racial studies class.
It's like a lego instruction booklet on something i see the worst kind of "progressive" people doing all the time. And it's more than just the "wanting a cookie" thing.
They don't do anything good, they just don't act, but since they acknowledge the problem they want a backrub. It's like "see, i get it! i'm not part of the problem because i understand the issue to some extent and can paint a picture of it". There's always a conscious effort to not engage with why they didn't do it because there were totally legitimate reasons. It was out of their control, and not their fault. Further analysis always shows that there was a potential or concrete example for how acting could(or would) have negatively effected them, but rather than throw themselves in the gears to at least attempt to change things they want to sit by and watch the toilet continue to fill without getting plunged and get a cup of tea and a "there there" because hey, they pointed it out!
Not feeling bad matters more than the bad thing itself. As long as they can feel good about still being a good progressive, it's all ok.
This gets even popcorn-ier when you realize this is literally in a magazine for the 1%. I chuckled a little bit before i got sad again.
posted by emptythought at 6:46 PM on November 18, 2015 [6 favorites]
It's like a lego instruction booklet on something i see the worst kind of "progressive" people doing all the time. And it's more than just the "wanting a cookie" thing.
They don't do anything good, they just don't act, but since they acknowledge the problem they want a backrub. It's like "see, i get it! i'm not part of the problem because i understand the issue to some extent and can paint a picture of it". There's always a conscious effort to not engage with why they didn't do it because there were totally legitimate reasons. It was out of their control, and not their fault. Further analysis always shows that there was a potential or concrete example for how acting could(or would) have negatively effected them, but rather than throw themselves in the gears to at least attempt to change things they want to sit by and watch the toilet continue to fill without getting plunged and get a cup of tea and a "there there" because hey, they pointed it out!
Not feeling bad matters more than the bad thing itself. As long as they can feel good about still being a good progressive, it's all ok.
This gets even popcorn-ier when you realize this is literally in a magazine for the 1%. I chuckled a little bit before i got sad again.
posted by emptythought at 6:46 PM on November 18, 2015 [6 favorites]
Ahh, duh. Thanks for following up, rokusan!
posted by everybody had matching towels at 6:59 PM on November 18, 2015
posted by everybody had matching towels at 6:59 PM on November 18, 2015
Is there A reason that this conversation was focused on diversity in terms of white and black without considering representation of Latina and Asian American actresses ?
posted by andoatnp at 10:16 PM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by andoatnp at 10:16 PM on November 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hmm. For me, that's a no, a meh, a yeah-maybe, and a meh.
You've summed up my annual feelings about Oscar nominees nicely. But I don't see why women of color should be excluded from the annual parade of meh.
posted by maxsparber at 6:19 AM on November 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
You've summed up my annual feelings about Oscar nominees nicely. But I don't see why women of color should be excluded from the annual parade of meh.
posted by maxsparber at 6:19 AM on November 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Is there A reason that this conversation was focused on diversity in terms of white and black without considering representation of Latina and Asian American actresses ?
Diversity tends to have a very narrow interpretation in the USA.
posted by modernnomad at 6:32 AM on November 19, 2015
Diversity tends to have a very narrow interpretation in the USA.
posted by modernnomad at 6:32 AM on November 19, 2015
I’m surprised that the staff of The Hollywood Reporter was able to even write an article about having an all-white actress roundtable—so mired in guilt they obviously are. It’s the type of guilt that paralyzes you, where you just sit there, contributing to a racially oppressive narrative, cashing your paycheck, avoiding eye contact with your brown colleague, tipping your brown housekeeper a little more out of remorse—not because you want to, but because . . . what else can you do?
posted by Pendragon at 6:41 AM on November 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Pendragon at 6:41 AM on November 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
^^That article is PERFECT.
Here are some great things that Galloway and his colleagues can do with their white guilt:
- Write it down in a diary. Give the diary to an actress of color so she can pay her rent with it.
- Sell your guilt to the Hallmark Channel so they can make a TV movie about sad white people for white people. Then send me the money, so I can buy back the five minutes of my life I spent reading this bullshit article, and the 20 minutes of my life I spent trying to recover from a splitting eye-roll-induced headache.
- Start a hashtag to raise awareness of your guilt. How about #WhiteJournalistsFeelingGuiltyAboutErasingPeopleOfColorButNotPlanningOnDoingAnythingAboutItMatter
- Whisper “I voted for Obama” to yourself, over and over again, until you fall asleep. Repeat whenever your complicity in the oppression of people of color threatens to make you feel bad.
- Shove it up your ass; you’re deep in there already, writing articles describing the view. You might as well keep your white guilt there, away from us.
posted by triggerfinger at 7:03 AM on November 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
Here are some great things that Galloway and his colleagues can do with their white guilt:
- Write it down in a diary. Give the diary to an actress of color so she can pay her rent with it.
- Sell your guilt to the Hallmark Channel so they can make a TV movie about sad white people for white people. Then send me the money, so I can buy back the five minutes of my life I spent reading this bullshit article, and the 20 minutes of my life I spent trying to recover from a splitting eye-roll-induced headache.
- Start a hashtag to raise awareness of your guilt. How about #WhiteJournalistsFeelingGuiltyAboutErasingPeopleOfColorButNotPlanningOnDoingAnythingAboutItMatter
- Whisper “I voted for Obama” to yourself, over and over again, until you fall asleep. Repeat whenever your complicity in the oppression of people of color threatens to make you feel bad.
- Shove it up your ass; you’re deep in there already, writing articles describing the view. You might as well keep your white guilt there, away from us.
posted by triggerfinger at 7:03 AM on November 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
Linda, perhaps it was a little tone deaf, but the title is an allusion to that other Big Christmas Movie, the one not represented on the magazine's cover by Jennifer Jason Leigh.
Nah, I don't think it is. Could be, but I doubt it. I am well aware of that movie, and given that she's not on the cover and the cover makes absolutely no reference to the film, I don't think it's an allusion to that movie. I think it just rhymes. I don't think they'd use a cover line that references a movie that isn't out yet that has literally nothing to do with the story without using a subhed or anything that would make it make any sense. (Google "great eight." It's used all the time in lots of contexts, for the simple and damning reason that it rhymes.)
Moreover, it really wouldn't matter anyway.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 8:55 AM on November 19, 2015
Nah, I don't think it is. Could be, but I doubt it. I am well aware of that movie, and given that she's not on the cover and the cover makes absolutely no reference to the film, I don't think it's an allusion to that movie. I think it just rhymes. I don't think they'd use a cover line that references a movie that isn't out yet that has literally nothing to do with the story without using a subhed or anything that would make it make any sense. (Google "great eight." It's used all the time in lots of contexts, for the simple and damning reason that it rhymes.)
Moreover, it really wouldn't matter anyway.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 8:55 AM on November 19, 2015
I occasionally post Lainey Gossip in these Hollywood analysis things; I think she's particularly interesting on this one: Just start calling these “Jennifer Lawrence Roundtables”. It covers both the diversity angles and the wage gap discussion.
posted by immlass at 11:01 AM on November 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by immlass at 11:01 AM on November 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
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posted by Etrigan at 10:37 AM on November 18, 2015 [8 favorites]