He killed a mouse in Reno, just to watch him die.
December 1, 2015 1:34 PM Subscribe
Orange is the new cats. The folks behind the game Exploding Kittens want to repair their kitten-related karma. They've launched a project to convince people to put orange collars on their indoor cats and to educate people that an orange collar on a cat indicates that the cat is an escaped indoor cat who needs to be returned to custody.
Orrrr... we could ban outdoor cats due to the safety issues, and assume all cats found outdoors shouldn't be there. (I believe the trap and neuter people put some sort of marker on the ones they release.)
posted by desjardins at 1:44 PM on December 1, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by desjardins at 1:44 PM on December 1, 2015 [8 favorites]
Ooooor we could not get stuck down in "we can't do this because it's not perfect" and TRY TO DO BOTH.
Perfect is the enemy of the good. This is a good idea. That it's not perfect isn't a reason to not do it.
posted by FritoKAL at 1:51 PM on December 1, 2015 [31 favorites]
Perfect is the enemy of the good. This is a good idea. That it's not perfect isn't a reason to not do it.
posted by FritoKAL at 1:51 PM on December 1, 2015 [31 favorites]
Good idea--my cats may be getting new collars for Christmas. Previously, I put "Indoor Cat" on their collars (along with name and number); this would extend it.
Problem, for me, is one of my cats is orange, so I'll have to get a BLAZE ORANGE collar.
I believe the trap and neuter people put some sort of marker on the ones they release.
TNR'ed cats get their ear "tipped" so they are flagged as having already-been-fixed.
posted by MrGuilt at 1:54 PM on December 1, 2015
Problem, for me, is one of my cats is orange, so I'll have to get a BLAZE ORANGE collar.
I believe the trap and neuter people put some sort of marker on the ones they release.
TNR'ed cats get their ear "tipped" so they are flagged as having already-been-fixed.
posted by MrGuilt at 1:54 PM on December 1, 2015
This is a good idea. Banning outdoor cats is a non-starter as long as there are many more more cats needing homes than there are prospective owners who would keep their cats indoors. Outdoor cats don't live as long as indoor cats, but they do live longer than cats who are euthanized. Scooping up every stray / feral cat and putting them in shelters doesn't seem like the right move to me.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:54 PM on December 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 1:54 PM on December 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
this explains the fancy necklace my wife bought for me and also the men with nets and cages that chased me out of the mall
posted by robocop is bleeding at 1:59 PM on December 1, 2015 [38 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 1:59 PM on December 1, 2015 [38 favorites]
Our indoor/outdoor cats have their invisible fence collars on, which identifies them pretty nicely. It also keeps them in their own yard.
Seriously, cats do take to an invisible fence very quickly and very well, and I do recommend it for cat owners that want their cats to have some outdoor time. It does not, however and obviously, prevent predators from getting inside the electric fence, so do only let the kitties out when you are at home and during daylight hours.
posted by yhbc at 2:00 PM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Seriously, cats do take to an invisible fence very quickly and very well, and I do recommend it for cat owners that want their cats to have some outdoor time. It does not, however and obviously, prevent predators from getting inside the electric fence, so do only let the kitties out when you are at home and during daylight hours.
posted by yhbc at 2:00 PM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
My indoor friends cannot possibly get outside, but this is a great idea, and a good addition to their microchips.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:09 PM on December 1, 2015
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:09 PM on December 1, 2015
I believe the trap and neuter people put some sort of marker on the ones they release.
Actually, they cut off about a third of the cat's ear. :( They say it's so animal control officers can tell from a distance whether a cat has already been sterilized.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:14 PM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Actually, they cut off about a third of the cat's ear. :( They say it's so animal control officers can tell from a distance whether a cat has already been sterilized.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:14 PM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
As a teenager, I had outside cats. Who, it being awhile ago, had flea collars. They had to be replaced incredibly frequently because any collar that's cat-safe HAS to be able to come off, or else they can strangle if it gets caught on something outside. Any collar that your cat can't get off is a danger.
There should be no outside cats. Indoor cats should be chipped and feral cats should be tipped, and that would functionally solve most of this. The reason people know that dogs wandering around are strays is that with dogs, for some reason, people get that the notion of letting companion animals wander without restriction or supervision is dangerous and abusive.
The average lifespan of all our outside cats was roughly the age my younger cat is now, and she still feels like a kitten to me. We need to stop treating it like that's okay. Shots and flea drops will not protect cats from all illnesses and parasites outside, and the inside of a home does not contain potentially-aggressive animals or vehicles.
posted by Sequence at 2:15 PM on December 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
There should be no outside cats. Indoor cats should be chipped and feral cats should be tipped, and that would functionally solve most of this. The reason people know that dogs wandering around are strays is that with dogs, for some reason, people get that the notion of letting companion animals wander without restriction or supervision is dangerous and abusive.
The average lifespan of all our outside cats was roughly the age my younger cat is now, and she still feels like a kitten to me. We need to stop treating it like that's okay. Shots and flea drops will not protect cats from all illnesses and parasites outside, and the inside of a home does not contain potentially-aggressive animals or vehicles.
posted by Sequence at 2:15 PM on December 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
Banning outdoor cats is a non-starter as long as there are many more more cats needing homes than there are prospective owners who would keep their cats indoors.
Also, farm cats and other working mousers need outdoor access to do their jobs properly. Many people still use cats for pest control.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:17 PM on December 1, 2015 [8 favorites]
Also, farm cats and other working mousers need outdoor access to do their jobs properly. Many people still use cats for pest control.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:17 PM on December 1, 2015 [8 favorites]
The 'nobody should let their cats go outside thing' is an understandable tangent here, but it's kind of wishful thinking. People are going to let their cats go outside.
This project adds a layer of protection for the cats who are already being kept indoors by making it clear to others that they should be caught and returned to their owners if possible. Nothing about this obligates people to let their cats go outside -- it is, in fact, the exact opposite of that. It should enable a greater ability to keep your cat indoors (or more accurately, to get them back indoors.) It's something that indoor cat owners can actually do to safeguard their own cats, versus trying to control the behaviour of other cat owners, which makes it about 900 million times more plausible.
posted by jacquilynne at 2:23 PM on December 1, 2015 [12 favorites]
This project adds a layer of protection for the cats who are already being kept indoors by making it clear to others that they should be caught and returned to their owners if possible. Nothing about this obligates people to let their cats go outside -- it is, in fact, the exact opposite of that. It should enable a greater ability to keep your cat indoors (or more accurately, to get them back indoors.) It's something that indoor cat owners can actually do to safeguard their own cats, versus trying to control the behaviour of other cat owners, which makes it about 900 million times more plausible.
posted by jacquilynne at 2:23 PM on December 1, 2015 [12 favorites]
This is actually a good idea. My indoor cat is completely white with no markings (almost albino but he has gold/green eyes). He has gotten out of the house a few times, and it takes me weeks to be able to coax him back (usually through food). At least this way I could alert the neighbors that if you see the white cat with the orange collar...let me know pronto and help me get him safe.
posted by Benway at 2:23 PM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Benway at 2:23 PM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Sequence: " Who, it being awhile ago, had flea collars. They had to be replaced incredibly frequently because any collar that's cat-safe HAS to be able to come off"
My parents' (indoor) cat had a flea collar, back in the days before collars were breakaway, and she would wait until everyone left the house, jump until she caught the collar on a doorknob, and then wiggle her way down until she was free, leaving the collar hanging neatly on the doorknob.
She didn't do it when people were home because she knew she'd get in trouble; she waited until the house was empty and then acted all innocent about it later.
(Eventually my parents stopped flea collaring her because they were so scared she'd strangle herself when nobody was home and the Houdini routine went wrong.)
The breakaway collars they have now are much better!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:23 PM on December 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
My parents' (indoor) cat had a flea collar, back in the days before collars were breakaway, and she would wait until everyone left the house, jump until she caught the collar on a doorknob, and then wiggle her way down until she was free, leaving the collar hanging neatly on the doorknob.
She didn't do it when people were home because she knew she'd get in trouble; she waited until the house was empty and then acted all innocent about it later.
(Eventually my parents stopped flea collaring her because they were so scared she'd strangle herself when nobody was home and the Houdini routine went wrong.)
The breakaway collars they have now are much better!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:23 PM on December 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
Maybe banning outdoor cats is a non-starter, but I would like to ban all the jerks in my city apartment building who let their cats roam on an incredibly busy street and allow them to get into vicious fights with strays in the alley and who respond to "hey, your cat is out again and in fact just ran under a moving car in the parking lot" with a shrug.
posted by thetortoise at 2:24 PM on December 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by thetortoise at 2:24 PM on December 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
In fact I'm going to put orange collars on THEM and see how they like it okay yes sorry this is a tangent
posted by thetortoise at 2:26 PM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by thetortoise at 2:26 PM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
It is impossible to keep a collar on my cat. Somewhere near our last house is a field with at least six collars in it. Best we can do is chip him. So far, he has always come back quickly, because besides other cats, there are crows in our neighborhood who could take him. He used to love to get out and wander (that's how he came to us) but nowadays he sticks close to home.
He would literally claw the doors to splinters if we refused to ever let him out. And he's fast at escapes. So we used reverse psychology, put in a cat door, and now he mostly prefers to be in.
posted by emjaybee at 2:31 PM on December 1, 2015
He would literally claw the doors to splinters if we refused to ever let him out. And he's fast at escapes. So we used reverse psychology, put in a cat door, and now he mostly prefers to be in.
posted by emjaybee at 2:31 PM on December 1, 2015
My cat wears a Beastie Band (which apparently doesn't itch too badly and is okay to wear) with a slide-on Boomerang Tag with an inscription saying "INSIDE CAT" on it, plus phone numbers. Works pretty well.
He apparently finds jingling too annoying to be bourne and gets noticeably itchy when he wears other collars, but the Beastie Bands are basically just a loop of soft spongy Velcroy material with a Velcro-hook bit that wraps around the cat neck. Super soft, no buckle, and since we got the slide-on tag there's nothing to jingle. I've never seen them in orange, but you can get them in just about any color to loudly signal that this is a cat with a human.
posted by sciatrix at 2:52 PM on December 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
He apparently finds jingling too annoying to be bourne and gets noticeably itchy when he wears other collars, but the Beastie Bands are basically just a loop of soft spongy Velcroy material with a Velcro-hook bit that wraps around the cat neck. Super soft, no buckle, and since we got the slide-on tag there's nothing to jingle. I've never seen them in orange, but you can get them in just about any color to loudly signal that this is a cat with a human.
posted by sciatrix at 2:52 PM on December 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
Well-cared-for barn and stable cats are a thing (though certainly not as widespread a thing as 'let's get a new kitten every year because the coyotes keep eating them.') A local shelter has a barn cat program for kitties who aren't compatible with indoor life.
3/4 of the cats we've had came from outdoors; each of them we found in a panic and asking strangers for help. Thankfully, they wanted absolutely nothing to do with the outside since we took them in. I know it's not like that for everyone, though, and some people don't have predators or neighbors with veg gardens, or cats ambitious enough to approach roads or climb after songbirds. I absolutely don't envy folks who have to contend with frustrated feline escape artists. Cats are daunting adversaries, they have preternatural skills and time to scheme.
posted by Lou Stuells at 3:06 PM on December 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
3/4 of the cats we've had came from outdoors; each of them we found in a panic and asking strangers for help. Thankfully, they wanted absolutely nothing to do with the outside since we took them in. I know it's not like that for everyone, though, and some people don't have predators or neighbors with veg gardens, or cats ambitious enough to approach roads or climb after songbirds. I absolutely don't envy folks who have to contend with frustrated feline escape artists. Cats are daunting adversaries, they have preternatural skills and time to scheme.
posted by Lou Stuells at 3:06 PM on December 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
we started letting ours outside because Bellatrix was OBSESSED with getting out there and escaped all the time. now they go out (day time only) and come in when we call because they know we'll let them out again tomorrow. they are chipped, no collars.
some cats just can't deal with being indoor only. I have a friend with a cat like that. she installed a cat door with settings "in but not out" "locked" etc., cat learned to hack them all in days and comes and goes as he pleases. she tried to cat-proof her yard (har!) but nothing has stopped him from getting out. she doesn't want him to go out (she worries about him constantly, as I do mine) but some cats are miserable if cooped up all day, no matter the space, toys, attention that they have.
now I can also worry about a stranger deciding that my cats must be homeless strays who need rounding up :(
posted by supermedusa at 3:07 PM on December 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
some cats just can't deal with being indoor only. I have a friend with a cat like that. she installed a cat door with settings "in but not out" "locked" etc., cat learned to hack them all in days and comes and goes as he pleases. she tried to cat-proof her yard (har!) but nothing has stopped him from getting out. she doesn't want him to go out (she worries about him constantly, as I do mine) but some cats are miserable if cooped up all day, no matter the space, toys, attention that they have.
now I can also worry about a stranger deciding that my cats must be homeless strays who need rounding up :(
posted by supermedusa at 3:07 PM on December 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
The other day, I saw a cat who was way too thin, and who looked lost.
But when I looked at the collar to see if there was a number, the tag said "I'm Not Lost". So either it wasn't lost, or someone is really bad at naming cats.
posted by jb at 3:20 PM on December 1, 2015 [15 favorites]
But when I looked at the collar to see if there was a number, the tag said "I'm Not Lost". So either it wasn't lost, or someone is really bad at naming cats.
posted by jb at 3:20 PM on December 1, 2015 [15 favorites]
I've long put collars onto neighborhood cats whose owners allow them outdoors so they aren't swept up as strays but over the years some of my neighbors have misinterpreted my intentions. [...] I can just as easily switch to all orange after my current stock runs out.
Quite apart from the fact that I'd find that tremendously presumptuous if you did it to my indoor/outdoor cat* (I'm not surprised people "misinterpret your intentions"), why would you use collars in the colour expressly intended to designate an inside cat on animals which are, according to you, permitted to roam outdoors by their owners?
Are you hoping these owners will be worn down and converted to indoor-catting as a result of multiple return attempts by people who assumed their cats were escapees?
* Chipped, snipped & pricked, 15 years old, and can Houdini out of a collar in a matter of minutes.
Disclaimer: UK here, where - though some people opt to keep their cats indoors - outdoor cats are considered perfectly normal.
posted by Morfil Ffyrnig at 3:31 PM on December 1, 2015 [11 favorites]
Quite apart from the fact that I'd find that tremendously presumptuous if you did it to my indoor/outdoor cat* (I'm not surprised people "misinterpret your intentions"), why would you use collars in the colour expressly intended to designate an inside cat on animals which are, according to you, permitted to roam outdoors by their owners?
Are you hoping these owners will be worn down and converted to indoor-catting as a result of multiple return attempts by people who assumed their cats were escapees?
* Chipped, snipped & pricked, 15 years old, and can Houdini out of a collar in a matter of minutes.
Disclaimer: UK here, where - though some people opt to keep their cats indoors - outdoor cats are considered perfectly normal.
posted by Morfil Ffyrnig at 3:31 PM on December 1, 2015 [11 favorites]
No cat needs to be outside. Keep your kitties safe indoors!
posted by agregoli at 3:53 PM on December 1, 2015
posted by agregoli at 3:53 PM on December 1, 2015
Any helpful advice on your you convert a cat that wants to be outdoors into an indoor cat?
Drug them into catatonia? vinyl walls and floor drains to wash the urine off?
posted by kevin is... at 4:00 PM on December 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Drug them into catatonia? vinyl walls and floor drains to wash the urine off?
posted by kevin is... at 4:00 PM on December 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
A lot of the time when a cat acts like he needs to go outside, it's because he can smell other cats. Feliway helps with that.
My cat also gets over it after she's been inside a month or so. Then if she sneaks out once after that, she's back to demanding and continually trying to sneak out until she forgets about it again.
We used to let her outside if she stayed in our small yard until a fight with the neighbor's cat led to expensive bills. Now she's 100% inside and except for the occasional inspiring incident, she's gotten used to it.
posted by tofu_crouton at 4:10 PM on December 1, 2015
My cat also gets over it after she's been inside a month or so. Then if she sneaks out once after that, she's back to demanding and continually trying to sneak out until she forgets about it again.
We used to let her outside if she stayed in our small yard until a fight with the neighbor's cat led to expensive bills. Now she's 100% inside and except for the occasional inspiring incident, she's gotten used to it.
posted by tofu_crouton at 4:10 PM on December 1, 2015
MrGuilt: "TNR'ed cats get their ear "tipped" so they are flagged as having already-been-fixed.
"
They also get a green tattoo on their bellies -- cats can and will escape and get their ears chewed up.
posted by boo_radley at 4:11 PM on December 1, 2015
"
They also get a green tattoo on their bellies -- cats can and will escape and get their ears chewed up.
posted by boo_radley at 4:11 PM on December 1, 2015
Any helpful advice on your you convert a cat that wants to be outdoors into an indoor cat?
Set up a window spot for your cat with a heated cat bed and several bird feeders hung directly outside.
If you can't hang bird feeders, play your cat Paul Dinning videos all day.
posted by Jacqueline at 4:25 PM on December 1, 2015
Set up a window spot for your cat with a heated cat bed and several bird feeders hung directly outside.
If you can't hang bird feeders, play your cat Paul Dinning videos all day.
posted by Jacqueline at 4:25 PM on December 1, 2015
Adds "outdoor cats" to list of things-Metafilter-does-not-do-well.
posted by signal at 4:42 PM on December 1, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by signal at 4:42 PM on December 1, 2015 [19 favorites]
Yeah, keep you cats indoors; they can't protect themselves outdoors, being declawed and all.
< ducks >
posted by el io at 4:44 PM on December 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
< ducks >
posted by el io at 4:44 PM on December 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
Metafilter: we don't do outdoor cats well.
posted by randomkeystrike at 4:45 PM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by randomkeystrike at 4:45 PM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
The UK does not have coyotes outside of zoos. In an environment where the top urban predator is very adept at killing and eating domestic cats, I'm of the opinion cats should be kept indoors.
Hence my inclusion of a disclaimer re: location. I wasn't commenting on your decision to keep your own cats indoors; mainly your intention to begin labelling other people's outdoor cats as indoor ones as a result of the orange-collar project.
Well no, I'm hoping that the cats will not be picked up by our exceptionally vigilant local Animal Control, which has a 75% mortality rate on stray cats. I'm hoping that the jackass who lives up the hill of my semi-rural neighborhood will see the bright colored collars and aim his pellet gun somewhere else.
These seem to be your reasons for applying collars per se, not the orange ones specifically (if the person with the pellet gun is put off shooting a cat by a collar in itself, then a now-misleading orange one isn't specifically necessary; if he's willing to shoot cats collared in other colours, then I doubt the indoor-cat-designating orange will do much to stop him).
If this campaign (which I think is broadly a good idea) does take off, then collaring other people's outdoor cats with orange will likely lead to a great deal of hassle for your neighbours if people keep attempting to return them home, and has the potential to dilute the project's efficacy. ("Oh, the orange collars? We saw a couple of cats on the street wearing those, and tried to find their owners, but it turned out they were actually allowed outside. I don't bother trying to get them home now.")
posted by Morfil Ffyrnig at 4:45 PM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Hence my inclusion of a disclaimer re: location. I wasn't commenting on your decision to keep your own cats indoors; mainly your intention to begin labelling other people's outdoor cats as indoor ones as a result of the orange-collar project.
Well no, I'm hoping that the cats will not be picked up by our exceptionally vigilant local Animal Control, which has a 75% mortality rate on stray cats. I'm hoping that the jackass who lives up the hill of my semi-rural neighborhood will see the bright colored collars and aim his pellet gun somewhere else.
These seem to be your reasons for applying collars per se, not the orange ones specifically (if the person with the pellet gun is put off shooting a cat by a collar in itself, then a now-misleading orange one isn't specifically necessary; if he's willing to shoot cats collared in other colours, then I doubt the indoor-cat-designating orange will do much to stop him).
If this campaign (which I think is broadly a good idea) does take off, then collaring other people's outdoor cats with orange will likely lead to a great deal of hassle for your neighbours if people keep attempting to return them home, and has the potential to dilute the project's efficacy. ("Oh, the orange collars? We saw a couple of cats on the street wearing those, and tried to find their owners, but it turned out they were actually allowed outside. I don't bother trying to get them home now.")
posted by Morfil Ffyrnig at 4:45 PM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Metafilter: we don't do outdoor cats well in countries where there are larger predators including humans with guns.
posted by Thella at 4:53 PM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Thella at 4:53 PM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Marmalade, from Give Them Ten, has spread the word.
(Yes, I may have clued her in.)
posted by MrGuilt at 5:07 PM on December 1, 2015
(Yes, I may have clued her in.)
posted by MrGuilt at 5:07 PM on December 1, 2015
Can we *please* not start a "ban all outdoor cats" thread? Some of us don't live in the city and *my* outdoor/barn cats keep the mouse/rat population under control. They are all neutered, their shots are kept up and none are happy about living indoors. The world isn't black and white.
posted by jgaiser at 5:11 PM on December 1, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by jgaiser at 5:11 PM on December 1, 2015 [15 favorites]
The 'nobody should let their cats go outside thing' is an understandable tangent here, but it's kind of wishful thinking. People are going to let their cats go outside.
My cats are all indoor cats, but if a cat wants to get somewhere it will get there.
Such as behind a tub that is not detached and I don't even know how that was possible.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:11 PM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
My cats are all indoor cats, but if a cat wants to get somewhere it will get there.
Such as behind a tub that is not detached and I don't even know how that was possible.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:11 PM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think it's a good idea, but I also live in fear of my cat getting out, and he's microchipped.
There are also a lot of local cats by me, like a few feral cats, one outdoor and a Bodega cat, so anything to help Id lost cats would be helpful cause I usually rely on two points, does this cat look like it knows what it's doing or does it look like a cat I know to be lost. It is not a very good system.
posted by KernalM at 9:20 PM on December 1, 2015
There are also a lot of local cats by me, like a few feral cats, one outdoor and a Bodega cat, so anything to help Id lost cats would be helpful cause I usually rely on two points, does this cat look like it knows what it's doing or does it look like a cat I know to be lost. It is not a very good system.
posted by KernalM at 9:20 PM on December 1, 2015
I have no idea how these people got their cats into their collars, or why.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 10:49 PM on December 1, 2015
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 10:49 PM on December 1, 2015
The idea is a good one up to the point that they talk about it being the color of prison garb. I don't understand why they think cat lovers will want to mark their cat as a "convict." Weird.
I too would appreciate guidance from those who converted outdoor cats to indoor cats. We adopted a few neighborhood strays, and they are VERY into getting out of the house.
posted by slidell at 11:08 PM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I too would appreciate guidance from those who converted outdoor cats to indoor cats. We adopted a few neighborhood strays, and they are VERY into getting out of the house.
posted by slidell at 11:08 PM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Seems like some dissent is in order? I let my cats out. They seem to appreciate it. 9 lives, hello.
posted by newton at 12:35 AM on December 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by newton at 12:35 AM on December 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
9 lives, hello.
Yeah, about that. There are reasonable arguments that can be made for letting cats outdoors despite the risks, but the 9 lives myth isn't among them.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:05 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, about that. There are reasonable arguments that can be made for letting cats outdoors despite the risks, but the 9 lives myth isn't among them.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:05 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think the convict label is kind of funny? The way Molly goes on with her pathetic mewling in front of the back door does make it seem fitting.
We had to adjust Molly to become indoors only because we live on a very busy road with really nasty, bully cats roaming around (no joke, one of them left a big dump on the windowsill. I don't know how in the world they balanced that way but yeah).
I got her a harness and take her for short laps around the backyard. It only took her about 3 times before she got used to it and now she eagerly trots to the back door when I get the leash out.
posted by like_neon at 1:09 AM on December 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
We had to adjust Molly to become indoors only because we live on a very busy road with really nasty, bully cats roaming around (no joke, one of them left a big dump on the windowsill. I don't know how in the world they balanced that way but yeah).
I got her a harness and take her for short laps around the backyard. It only took her about 3 times before she got used to it and now she eagerly trots to the back door when I get the leash out.
posted by like_neon at 1:09 AM on December 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
My cat wears this collar when she goes outside. She looks like anew actual clown but she's easy to see and she has yet to get a bird since we started. (Of course she is fixed, chipped, and vaxxed too.)
posted by arcticwoman at 5:27 AM on December 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by arcticwoman at 5:27 AM on December 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Presumably a human lifespan could also be extended by never going outside. Will we be the last generation to die, or the first immortals?
posted by newton at 8:23 AM on December 2, 2015
posted by newton at 8:23 AM on December 2, 2015
I let my cat out the other day. after an hour I whistled like you would for a dog...and here he came zipping into the house. he now comes every time I whistle..go figure
posted by judson at 8:27 AM on December 2, 2015
posted by judson at 8:27 AM on December 2, 2015
If I could easily quadruple my lifespan by not going outside, I'd probably give it a shot.
posted by thetortoise at 8:29 AM on December 2, 2015
posted by thetortoise at 8:29 AM on December 2, 2015
Presumably a human lifespan could also be extended by never going outside. Will we be the last generation to die, or the first immortals?
If that's where you'd like to move the goalposts, I have no problem with that. As I said, it's arguable that cats deserve as much independence as we do in coming and going as we please, but not arguable with this "nine lives" silliness, that somehow domesticated cats are well-suited to living long, healthy lives outdoors. They're just not. Do whatever you like with your furry friends, just don't make nonsense arguments to justify it.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:14 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
If that's where you'd like to move the goalposts, I have no problem with that. As I said, it's arguable that cats deserve as much independence as we do in coming and going as we please, but not arguable with this "nine lives" silliness, that somehow domesticated cats are well-suited to living long, healthy lives outdoors. They're just not. Do whatever you like with your furry friends, just don't make nonsense arguments to justify it.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:14 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I believe the statistics. I'm all for my cats and children living shorter but more exciting lives, but somehow they are all still alive in their mid-teens. Probably their excellent diets, and our area's lack of fast moving traffic or large predators. For the record, the cats are chipped and neutered and the children are not neutered but have smartphones.
posted by newton at 9:35 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by newton at 9:35 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
That's the evidence? an article that states: "Outdoor cats generally live to be around four to five years of age" with no data to support it?
Shorter life span seems reasonable to me, but that number? why should I believe it?
posted by kevin is... at 9:56 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Shorter life span seems reasonable to me, but that number? why should I believe it?
posted by kevin is... at 9:56 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
One of the main reasons for our buying a house (as opposed to the apartment we used to live in) was making it easier for Yukiko (my misgendered cat) to come and go in and out as he pleases.
posted by signal at 10:36 AM on December 2, 2015
posted by signal at 10:36 AM on December 2, 2015
Just a heads-up for you who use outdoor cats for pest control - make sure your neighbors don't use rat poison. One of our neighbors' cats nearly died (hemorrhaged from all orifices and needed a transfusion from her sister) because she killed and presumably ate too many rodents full of warfarin.
posted by gingerest at 7:02 PM on December 2, 2015
posted by gingerest at 7:02 PM on December 2, 2015
Depending on where I've lived, I've had to keep cats inside at times, but it's certainly superior for the health and happiness of a cat to be able to go outside. If you can't free-feed your cat without them getting overweight, you have a bored and unhappy cat -- and most indoor-only cats I know are overweight or only kept from being so by strict diets. There's certainly risks with the outdoors in some areas, but there's health risks from a sedentary indoors life as well. And your playing with them for an hour after work is no substitute for hours of outdoor exercise and mental stimulation.
I don't blame people for keeping cats indoors if they live in a coyote area or too near fast roads or in an area with endangered wildlife, but I wish people would be more honest with themselves about the burden they are putting on their cats with a confined life. And less smugly moralistic about enforcing that life.
posted by tavella at 9:51 PM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't blame people for keeping cats indoors if they live in a coyote area or too near fast roads or in an area with endangered wildlife, but I wish people would be more honest with themselves about the burden they are putting on their cats with a confined life. And less smugly moralistic about enforcing that life.
posted by tavella at 9:51 PM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
That's the evidence? an article that states: "Outdoor cats generally live to be around four to five years of age" with no data to support it?
Shorter life span seems reasonable to me, but that number? why should I believe it?
Assuming they're not plucking this out of the air, the only reason I could think of for that number is if a study (not cited at the link) included data from stray, feral and exclusively-outdoor cats, in addition to [or even instead of] indoor/outdoor ones, when calculating an average lifespan - which would naturally skew the statistics and render them less [or in-] applicable when speaking of your average pet-cat-permitted-outdoors-but-still-living-in-a-home.
Like you, I readily accept the fact of a shorter average lifespan for indoor/outdoor cats versus indoor-only ones, but not to the degree of the claimed figures in that link.
posted by Morfil Ffyrnig at 2:40 AM on December 3, 2015
Shorter life span seems reasonable to me, but that number? why should I believe it?
Assuming they're not plucking this out of the air, the only reason I could think of for that number is if a study (not cited at the link) included data from stray, feral and exclusively-outdoor cats, in addition to [or even instead of] indoor/outdoor ones, when calculating an average lifespan - which would naturally skew the statistics and render them less [or in-] applicable when speaking of your average pet-cat-permitted-outdoors-but-still-living-in-a-home.
Like you, I readily accept the fact of a shorter average lifespan for indoor/outdoor cats versus indoor-only ones, but not to the degree of the claimed figures in that link.
posted by Morfil Ffyrnig at 2:40 AM on December 3, 2015
kevin is...: "Shorter life span seems reasonable to me, but that number? why should I believe it?"
It's a pretty well-known number; when cat litter was introduced after WWII, they got a large "inadvertent" study (what's the word for when a study creates itself by a thing happening in the real world, neatly diverging a population into two groups?) and pretty massive amounts of data, with the pleasant and somewhat unexpected surprise that cat actually have decade-plus lifespans if you keep them inside. Outdoor cats in the United States have an average lifespan of about 5 years. Indoor, it's 12-15. If you chat with a vet, ideally a cat specialist, they'll be delighted to go over the data and discuss the numbers with you. There are also some vets in the US, especially cat specialists, who are starting to refuse to treat outdoor or indoor/outdoor cats, because they consider allowing the cat outdoors abusive or negligent (in addition to environmentally harmful) and have decided they prefer not to enable owners who are abusive or negligent. There's not a whole lot of veterinary support for the idea that indoor cats have "less good" lives in any way.
Again, this is in the US, with specific soil-borne and wildlife-borne illnesses that affect domestic cats, as well as far higher rates of cat-run-over-by-car accidents than Europe, as well as wild bird populations far more damaged by domestic cats than in Europe.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:21 AM on December 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
It's a pretty well-known number; when cat litter was introduced after WWII, they got a large "inadvertent" study (what's the word for when a study creates itself by a thing happening in the real world, neatly diverging a population into two groups?) and pretty massive amounts of data, with the pleasant and somewhat unexpected surprise that cat actually have decade-plus lifespans if you keep them inside. Outdoor cats in the United States have an average lifespan of about 5 years. Indoor, it's 12-15. If you chat with a vet, ideally a cat specialist, they'll be delighted to go over the data and discuss the numbers with you. There are also some vets in the US, especially cat specialists, who are starting to refuse to treat outdoor or indoor/outdoor cats, because they consider allowing the cat outdoors abusive or negligent (in addition to environmentally harmful) and have decided they prefer not to enable owners who are abusive or negligent. There's not a whole lot of veterinary support for the idea that indoor cats have "less good" lives in any way.
Again, this is in the US, with specific soil-borne and wildlife-borne illnesses that affect domestic cats, as well as far higher rates of cat-run-over-by-car accidents than Europe, as well as wild bird populations far more damaged by domestic cats than in Europe.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:21 AM on December 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
Pretty much every link I've looked at that was attached to an actual scientific paper conflated ferals, outdoor unvaccinated "pets"/working cats or managed ferals, and indoor cats with access to the outdoors. If someone wants to provide a paper that covers only indoor cats with access, that'd be nice. Because otherwise I share kevin's doubts. I or my family have had a lot of indoor/outdoor cats over the years, and I've known even more, and the average lifespan was nowhere near three years. It's also particularly notable that the indoor/outdoor cats have had much less in the way of diabetes or other chronic illnesses until very late in life (late teens) while the indoor only cats over have them at 10 or so. Of course, two of the indoor/outdoor were killed by cars, so I'm not saying it's all roses -- but the average was not anywhere near so slanted.
posted by tavella at 8:57 AM on December 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by tavella at 8:57 AM on December 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
I have the same questions as Tavella on this one. I've known dozens of indoor-outdoor cats over the years, and I can't recall any who died as early as 5 years never mind enough to make it the average, unless you count non-viable kittens.
My cat went through some rough shit early in her life, and it's possible she might have died from those injuries, but she continued to have outdoor access until she was 20ish and finally succumbed to the fact that my Dad fed her way too many treats.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:09 AM on December 3, 2015
My cat went through some rough shit early in her life, and it's possible she might have died from those injuries, but she continued to have outdoor access until she was 20ish and finally succumbed to the fact that my Dad fed her way too many treats.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:09 AM on December 3, 2015
Remember that average life expectancy is an average. It's not saying that cats with outdoor access age faster or can never survive as long as indoor cats. It's saying that they have a MUCH higher chance of dying young from accident, predation, or a disease like FIV than indoor only cats. A year old kitten who is eaten by a coyote will really skew that average.
posted by sciatrix at 9:13 AM on December 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by sciatrix at 9:13 AM on December 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yes, I get what average means. But there have to actually be the 'died young' outliers for this to make sense -- and a fair number of them, too -- it would take 4 year-old kittens being eaten by a coyote to counteract one cat that lives to 20 years and bring the average back to 5. If regular people's indoor/outdoor pets were dying at such an alarming rate, surely I would have come across some of them?
posted by jacquilynne at 9:21 AM on December 3, 2015
posted by jacquilynne at 9:21 AM on December 3, 2015
I can add another outdoor threat: somebody might befriend your cat, feed him junk food and hang out with him all day....and then your cat might stop coming around your house. I see mine every few days now. Further evidence that he's just a semi-feral cat that hung out with us for 10 years rather than "our" cat. (no matter what the vet bills say)
posted by kevin is... at 12:17 PM on December 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by kevin is... at 12:17 PM on December 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
I can add another outdoor threat: somebody might befriend your cat, feed him junk food and hang out with him all day....and then your cat might stop coming around your house.
My parents-in-law had a cat share with the neighbour across the street - it worked out very well for them. No need to get a cat sitter when away. It was tough after she moved and they were full time cat owners.
posted by jb at 5:48 AM on December 4, 2015
My parents-in-law had a cat share with the neighbour across the street - it worked out very well for them. No need to get a cat sitter when away. It was tough after she moved and they were full time cat owners.
posted by jb at 5:48 AM on December 4, 2015
We ended up with a dog that way. Dogs in the tiny rural town I grew up in were often free range, and the dog across the street was a major mooch. He'd visit all the houses on the block looking for treats. After their son moved away for college, Benny started spending more time at our house, because my brother would pay attention to him. It got more and more difficult to get him to go back home at night, and eventually after one night where my mother tried to shoo him home for close to half an hour while the people across the street called him, they just gave up and moved his food dishes over to our house. He still visited them sometimes, but he started sleeping at our place, and thus we had a dog.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:35 AM on December 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by jacquilynne at 7:35 AM on December 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
My favorite cat when I was a kid did that. Showed up one day as a grown cat, I sneak-fed him until my parents gave in, and then about seven years later, in protest over repeated dousings of his ears for mites, he moved two houses up the street to the neighbors. They brought him back a couple of times, but it was clear that he had Moved On and so he became their cat. They were more sensible and took him to the vet to have his ears cleaned out by professionals.
He showed up the day after we had a lobster feast, so the running joke in our family was that he had gotten tired of waiting for lobster to come back on the menu.
posted by tavella at 9:14 AM on December 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
He showed up the day after we had a lobster feast, so the running joke in our family was that he had gotten tired of waiting for lobster to come back on the menu.
posted by tavella at 9:14 AM on December 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
After their son moved away for college, Benny started spending more time at our house, because my brother would pay attention to him. It got more and more difficult to get him to go back home at night, and eventually after one night where my mother tried to shoo him home for close to half an hour while the people across the street called him, they just gave up and moved his food dishes over to our house. He still visited them sometimes, but he started sleeping at our place, and thus we had a dog.
I would be in therapy for the rest of my life if my dog rejected me like that.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:21 AM on December 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I would be in therapy for the rest of my life if my dog rejected me like that.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:21 AM on December 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't think the parents really thought of him as their dog. He'd been the son's dog, and the son had moved away. By the time the son moved home again, it was too late, and the dog was thoroughly attached to our family. Mostly my mother, really.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:29 AM on December 4, 2015
posted by jacquilynne at 9:29 AM on December 4, 2015
That is one advantage of indoor/outdoor: you know your cat really does want to be here. My current sweetie, who I have mentioned before, walked right in the door and set up shop.
posted by tavella at 9:38 AM on December 4, 2015
posted by tavella at 9:38 AM on December 4, 2015
Actually, they cut off about a third of the cat's ear. :(
It must depend on the people doing it. I've taken in two formerly feral cats, and they had just the tips of their left ear removed.
posted by inertia at 10:05 AM on December 6, 2015
It must depend on the people doing it. I've taken in two formerly feral cats, and they had just the tips of their left ear removed.
posted by inertia at 10:05 AM on December 6, 2015
Got an orange collar for my little convict today. I wrote "INDOOR CAT" and our phone number on it.
Obligatory pics.
posted by Jacqueline at 5:02 PM on December 9, 2015
Obligatory pics.
posted by Jacqueline at 5:02 PM on December 9, 2015
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If you can keep the collar on the cat.
posted by randomkeystrike at 1:42 PM on December 1, 2015 [33 favorites]