vers le bas avec Tor!
December 7, 2015 6:40 AM Subscribe
The French government mulls laws to block Tor and public WiFi. Is this what happens when police ask Santa for presents ("liste au Père Noël", according to Le Monde)?.
(via)
One-time pads will allow anyone who wants to keep secrets to unbreakably encrypt them via pen and paper using 19th-century encryption technology, especially things the length of a text message, right?
So even governments getting to outlaw all encryption and install surveillance software on every device everywhere wouldn't put a dent in terrorist text messaging capabilities, which are supposedly the threat associated with the Paris attacks prompting all of these proposed measures.
posted by XMLicious at 7:15 AM on December 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
So even governments getting to outlaw all encryption and install surveillance software on every device everywhere wouldn't put a dent in terrorist text messaging capabilities, which are supposedly the threat associated with the Paris attacks prompting all of these proposed measures.
posted by XMLicious at 7:15 AM on December 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
And, of course, the evidence strongly suggests that they just communicated by text with no encryption, possibly a little obfuscation. The issue with seeing all the traffic is not that you're looking for a needle in the haystack, you're looking for the needle in a needle stack. When you see a message that says "I hope we wipe out those Paris bastards" are you looking at a message from a terrorist or a Caen fan hoping to get three points from Paris Saint-Germain in your chase for a Champions League spot and the title?
It's easy to find the trail of messages after it happened -- you just go back through their messages after you identify them and there you go. This does nothing to prevent the attack.
This is very clearly yet another "Let's see what on the wish list we can sneak through" proposal.
posted by eriko at 7:26 AM on December 7, 2015 [33 favorites]
It's easy to find the trail of messages after it happened -- you just go back through their messages after you identify them and there you go. This does nothing to prevent the attack.
This is very clearly yet another "Let's see what on the wish list we can sneak through" proposal.
posted by eriko at 7:26 AM on December 7, 2015 [33 favorites]
Other suggestions from "local police and gendarmes":
- Nonconsensual searches of vehicles and luggage (apparently without proper legal justification)
- "Papers please" identity checks, again with minimal legal justification
- Forcing those on the receiving end of administrative searches to give up DNA samples
[EXPURGÉE], égalité, fraternité
posted by zamboni at 7:36 AM on December 7, 2015 [34 favorites]
posted by zamboni at 7:36 AM on December 7, 2015 [34 favorites]
One-time pads will allow anyone who wants to keep secrets to unbreakably encrypt them via pen and paper using 19th-century encryption technology, especially things the length of a text message, right?
So even governments getting to outlaw all encryption and install surveillance software on every device everywhere wouldn't put a dent in terrorist text messaging capabilities, which are supposedly the threat associated with the Paris attacks prompting all of these proposed measures.
The problem with this method is that the police can just be on the lookout for the people who keep texting AJRXM WEJRM TPGLW VNMAS CNXQU MGLPS CKLTD NSLVP DUGLS to each other 5 times a day.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 8:04 AM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
So even governments getting to outlaw all encryption and install surveillance software on every device everywhere wouldn't put a dent in terrorist text messaging capabilities, which are supposedly the threat associated with the Paris attacks prompting all of these proposed measures.
The problem with this method is that the police can just be on the lookout for the people who keep texting AJRXM WEJRM TPGLW VNMAS CNXQU MGLPS CKLTD NSLVP DUGLS to each other 5 times a day.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 8:04 AM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Neat! A bunch of proposals to strip rights the attackers didn't even use. But I mean, who cares right? Tor is just for bad people, not good people like you and me who have nothing to worry about if the governments collect our complete reading lists and associations.
I'm sure it'll be fine. /s
posted by Matt Oneiros at 8:14 AM on December 7, 2015 [8 favorites]
I'm sure it'll be fine. /s
posted by Matt Oneiros at 8:14 AM on December 7, 2015 [8 favorites]
I just read that Front national are seeing some success in recent French elections, too.
posted by ODiV at 8:19 AM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by ODiV at 8:19 AM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
What is it about humans that when something bad happens they immediately turn to facism?
posted by Talez at 8:22 AM on December 7, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by Talez at 8:22 AM on December 7, 2015 [10 favorites]
"Papers please" identity checks, again with minimal legal justification
I must admit I thought that was standard practice in France already.
posted by Segundus at 8:25 AM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I must admit I thought that was standard practice in France already.
posted by Segundus at 8:25 AM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Bring it on, it'll just encourage development of Steganography. Just how will they stop selfie sharing?
And the Paris terrorists just uses unencrypted text messages anyway.
posted by sammyo at 8:26 AM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
And the Paris terrorists just uses unencrypted text messages anyway.
posted by sammyo at 8:26 AM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
These are the people who under nazi occupation ran an underground resistance movement under the scrutiny of the gestapo. With astonishing feats of bravery and ingenuity.
posted by adept256 at 8:27 AM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 8:27 AM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
"Papers please" identity checks, again with minimal legal justification
I must admit I thought that was standard practice in France already.
It was in the 1970s for anyone white and male who was in their late teens or twenties and looked like a leftist.
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:31 AM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I must admit I thought that was standard practice in France already.
It was in the 1970s for anyone white and male who was in their late teens or twenties and looked like a leftist.
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:31 AM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
What is it about humans that when something bad happens they immediately turn to facism?
I think it's the hope that daddy will make everything OK. Fascism is, in a lot of ways, the denial that the world is complex and that strong (older, white) men with simple answers will fix problems simply and cleanly without all that fuss of actually addressing the problem at some kind of radical or root level that would force citizens to look at the contradictions inherent in the system. Once we strip all that analysis away, it basically "daddy will make it better," our infant minds rising up in a moment of panic and looking for any way out.
I read an article by a leftist feminist in NYC just after 9/11 who described her bizarre (to her) fixation on Rudy Giuliani for a few weeks afterwards. Her brain kept going "this man will fix this!" while the rest of her mind went "OMG! YOU HATE EVERYTHING HE STANDS FOR!" She eventyually got over it, but that infant mind is a powerful thing.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:46 AM on December 7, 2015 [20 favorites]
I think it's the hope that daddy will make everything OK. Fascism is, in a lot of ways, the denial that the world is complex and that strong (older, white) men with simple answers will fix problems simply and cleanly without all that fuss of actually addressing the problem at some kind of radical or root level that would force citizens to look at the contradictions inherent in the system. Once we strip all that analysis away, it basically "daddy will make it better," our infant minds rising up in a moment of panic and looking for any way out.
I read an article by a leftist feminist in NYC just after 9/11 who described her bizarre (to her) fixation on Rudy Giuliani for a few weeks afterwards. Her brain kept going "this man will fix this!" while the rest of her mind went "OMG! YOU HATE EVERYTHING HE STANDS FOR!" She eventyually got over it, but that infant mind is a powerful thing.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:46 AM on December 7, 2015 [20 favorites]
This isn't a daddy issue. This is a big brother issue.
posted by adept256 at 8:50 AM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 8:50 AM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think it's the hope that daddy will make everything OK.
On the other hand I've heard very little mention since the Paris bombs of what happened after the Madrid rail bombings of 2004, when the Spanish turfed out their government that had loudly supported the invasion of Iraq.
posted by colie at 9:12 AM on December 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
On the other hand I've heard very little mention since the Paris bombs of what happened after the Madrid rail bombings of 2004, when the Spanish turfed out their government that had loudly supported the invasion of Iraq.
posted by colie at 9:12 AM on December 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
The problem with this method is that the police can just be on the lookout for the people who keep texting AJRXM WEJRM TPGLW VNMAS CNXQU MGLPS CKLTD NSLVP DUGLS to each other 5 times a day.
(assuming they are not just Serbians).
posted by rongorongo at 9:33 AM on December 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
(assuming they are not just Serbians).
posted by rongorongo at 9:33 AM on December 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
Dear France,
Welcome to post-9/11 America! Please stand by for your government's announcement that it has invaded an unrelated 3rd world country and don't forget to discard your nail clippers before boarding an aircraft (or train, I suppose).
posted by indubitable at 9:52 AM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Welcome to post-9/11 America! Please stand by for your government's announcement that it has invaded an unrelated 3rd world country and don't forget to discard your nail clippers before boarding an aircraft (or train, I suppose).
posted by indubitable at 9:52 AM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think it's the hope that daddy will make everything OK.
Hmm, this is pretty much couch psycho-analysis, but I wonder if this explains why Obama's Sunday address was reasonable and not a call to war (like the Republican candidates were all doing), since his father was absent for pretty much his whole life.
posted by FJT at 9:53 AM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hmm, this is pretty much couch psycho-analysis, but I wonder if this explains why Obama's Sunday address was reasonable and not a call to war (like the Republican candidates were all doing), since his father was absent for pretty much his whole life.
posted by FJT at 9:53 AM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
What is it about humans that when something bad happens they immediately turn to facism?
And, to expand on what GenjiandProust said: in times of chaos, many people feel things are out of control and want to exert control over their world again, even if by proxy. Fascism offers that illusion--it's all about exertion of control, and that's comforting to many people who find it an antidote to unpredictable times.
I find this idea terrifying, personally, but for lots of people it's the logical solution after something like this happens.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 9:58 AM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
And, to expand on what GenjiandProust said: in times of chaos, many people feel things are out of control and want to exert control over their world again, even if by proxy. Fascism offers that illusion--it's all about exertion of control, and that's comforting to many people who find it an antidote to unpredictable times.
I find this idea terrifying, personally, but for lots of people it's the logical solution after something like this happens.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 9:58 AM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Although there are plenty of people still wanting Daddy to make everything OK despite the fact that he comes home blind drunk and smashes up the entire house every night.
posted by colie at 9:58 AM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by colie at 9:58 AM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
What is it about humans that when something bad happens they immediately turn to facism?
We've seen this Stateside when all the people that spent years raging about the No Fly List and TSA are suddenly outraged the very No Fly List they hate isn't being used to deny gun purchases, as if it's immoral to have a vague "bad people" list to deny people one right but not the other. Or those (even here on Metafilter) calling for the end of "free speech" as a concept/idea in the face of Gamergate and internet harassment.
I think the illusion of control people are certainly correct but it's about more than that. It's about the cognitive burden of worrying. Imagine you're worried that terrorists are going to kill you or people are going to harass you or whatever, but then someone says "Hey, you know what, don't worry about that. I got it." And suddenly that burden is lifted. Everything is gonna be okay.
I mean--woop woop Godwin woop woop--Hitler's most powerful appeal wasn't all the Lebensraum stuff, it was "Man it sucks right now, if only someone would take away the chaos of this Weimar Republic thing and make everything okay."
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 10:38 AM on December 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
We've seen this Stateside when all the people that spent years raging about the No Fly List and TSA are suddenly outraged the very No Fly List they hate isn't being used to deny gun purchases, as if it's immoral to have a vague "bad people" list to deny people one right but not the other. Or those (even here on Metafilter) calling for the end of "free speech" as a concept/idea in the face of Gamergate and internet harassment.
I think the illusion of control people are certainly correct but it's about more than that. It's about the cognitive burden of worrying. Imagine you're worried that terrorists are going to kill you or people are going to harass you or whatever, but then someone says "Hey, you know what, don't worry about that. I got it." And suddenly that burden is lifted. Everything is gonna be okay.
I mean--woop woop Godwin woop woop--Hitler's most powerful appeal wasn't all the Lebensraum stuff, it was "Man it sucks right now, if only someone would take away the chaos of this Weimar Republic thing and make everything okay."
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 10:38 AM on December 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
I'll take "Things ISIS would do" for $100, Alex.
posted by w0mbat at 10:42 AM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by w0mbat at 10:42 AM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
"What is it about humans that when something bad happens they immediately turn to facism?"
Is this actually true though? Or is it more likely that certain people use crises to seize more power?
posted by I-baLL at 10:43 AM on December 7, 2015
Is this actually true though? Or is it more likely that certain people use crises to seize more power?
posted by I-baLL at 10:43 AM on December 7, 2015
And yesterday, in the regional elections, the right-wing (FN) came first (but it's not the last round).
posted by nicolin at 10:47 AM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by nicolin at 10:47 AM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah we're in the first round of regional elections here, so while the FN successes are indeed fucking depressing, it's not a done deal yet. Except quite possibly in the place I previously called home (PACA, the regional seat is Nice), which has been seeing a resurgence of racism since Sarkozy and did not surprise me at all by sending Marion Maréchal Le Pen and Estrosi to the second round. Translation: Really Fucking Evil versus Cruddy But Occasionally Does The Right Thing Because It Looks Good.
Dear France,
Welcome to post-9/11 America! Please stand by for your government's announcement that it has invaded an unrelated 3rd world country and don't forget to discard your nail clippers before boarding an aircraft (or train, I suppose).
Dear American Mefites Who Write Stuff Like This,
Stop thinking the rest of the world wasn't paying any attention and also please stop making everything about the USA. Also, it might behoove you to actually pay attention to countries you wittily think you're snarking at, because we had a president (Sarkozy) who liked to take cues from 9/11 well before this. Also, France has a weeeeee bit of direct history wrt fascism.
posted by fraula at 11:07 AM on December 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
Dear France,
Welcome to post-9/11 America! Please stand by for your government's announcement that it has invaded an unrelated 3rd world country and don't forget to discard your nail clippers before boarding an aircraft (or train, I suppose).
Dear American Mefites Who Write Stuff Like This,
Stop thinking the rest of the world wasn't paying any attention and also please stop making everything about the USA. Also, it might behoove you to actually pay attention to countries you wittily think you're snarking at, because we had a president (Sarkozy) who liked to take cues from 9/11 well before this. Also, France has a weeeeee bit of direct history wrt fascism.
posted by fraula at 11:07 AM on December 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
France Likely To Close Over 100 Mosques It Says 'Preach Hatred'
posted by bukvich at 12:03 PM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by bukvich at 12:03 PM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
cirque de sécurité
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:10 PM on December 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:10 PM on December 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Concerning the U.S.: Fact-checking the debate on encryption
posted by XMLicious at 6:01 AM on December 16, 2015
posted by XMLicious at 6:01 AM on December 16, 2015
American congress critters wasted no time passing CISA to reinforce parts of the Patriot Act that slipped slightly :
Last-Minute Budget Bill Allows New Privacy-Invading Surveillance in the Name of Cybersecurity
Hasty, Fearful Passage of Cybersecurity Bill Recalls Patriot Act
Dragnet NSA Spying Survives: 2015 in Review
posted by jeffburdges at 1:54 PM on December 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Last-Minute Budget Bill Allows New Privacy-Invading Surveillance in the Name of Cybersecurity
Hasty, Fearful Passage of Cybersecurity Bill Recalls Patriot Act
Dragnet NSA Spying Survives: 2015 in Review
posted by jeffburdges at 1:54 PM on December 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
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posted by Talez at 7:15 AM on December 7, 2015