From jackal to giraffe language: a workshop on nonviolent communication

December 20, 2015 10:39 AM

Dr. Marshall Rosenberg's talk on nonviolent communication is wise, practical and surprisingly funny.
posted by Foci for Analysis (20 comments total)

NVC can be a really helpful and powerful thing. Thanks for posting this.
posted by edheil at 11:31 AM on December 20, 2015 [2 favorites]

Can we make it go viral among headline writers, please? I'm tired to seeing "combatting poverty" and "surging against ebola"
posted by infini at 11:37 AM on December 20, 2015 [3 favorites]

I kind of binge-read a bunch of NVC materials back in the early 2000s, and really got into it. The Afghanistan and Gulf Wars had really hit me hard -- I didn't know how to deal with living in an openly and actively belligerent nation and I needed to come to some kind of principled stand on war and violence. I first found the book Is There No Other Way? The Search for a Non-Violent Future by Michael Nagler, which convinced me there was a neglected but important path in life, and then I saw an NVC book in the bookstore and grabbed that because of the "nonviolence" angle and it really drew me in.

It's kind of hard to summarize or impart NVC in a capsule form, so I'm not surprised this is a 3 hour lecture -- it sounds like it contains the same content as Rosenberg's books Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Life or Speak Peace in a World of Conflict.

The reason it's hard to summarize is that it's a cluster of interacting ideas and techniques, some of which seem ridiculous taken out of context, that make more sense when you put them in that particular context and view them as part of a technique or process, rather than abstract claims. It's also (and he acknowledges this) perfectly possible to take the ideas and language of NVC and just use them to be another kind of jerk -- a really enlightened and progressive sounding jerk -- so again, process is more important than ideas. All that being said, there are some pretty good short summaries out there, such as on their website

I haven't thought much about NVC for a while, and I don't use NVC specifically and consciously in my everyday life -- and arguably I could stand to do so a bit more, especially when it comes to People who are Wrong on the Internet, but I have let the general principles that animate it affect some areas of my life (like my parenting) and I think on the whole it's been a force for good.
posted by edheil at 12:13 PM on December 20, 2015 [6 favorites]

It's also (and he acknowledges this) perfectly possible to take the ideas and language of NVC and just use them to be another kind of jerk -- a really enlightened and progressive sounding jerk -- so again, process is more important than ideas.

This has been my experience literally every single time I've encountered NVC, either personally or through friends.

In one case it was:

My friend: "That was pretty fucked up that you didn't tell me you had an incurable STD before we had unprotected sex!"
Her partner: "I'm going to need you to avoid using 'violent' language like that."

I don't discount that there may well be folks for whom it's really useful, but for myself, I treat NVC like a plague ship drifting into harbor.
posted by Myca at 12:47 PM on December 20, 2015 [24 favorites]

Myca- zomg I am so glad to hear I'm not alone in this. I used to hang with really new agey crowds and I found the enforced "peace" that satisfied particular people at the expense of others who would be shamed if they rocked the boat and "disturbed the peace" to be really toxic.

All things in balance. Forced pacifism can itself be a form of "violence" on people who are not allowed to fight back against abusive behavior or treatment. I say this as someone who very deeply values peace, but forcing everyone to use nice words is a false peace where horrific injustices are ignored and righteous anger at such injustices shamed and dispersed with even more fervor than the injustices themselves are addressed.

I do think using the most peaceful means possible to achieve protection of the vulnerable or in the pursuit of justice is well advised and many of his techniques may be helpful in crafting that art, but some of the assumptions about resolving every single form of conflict without ever using any hint of violence and calling words violence (I actually think words can hurt and admitting they are weapons and stronger than the sword and should be used carefully is not the same as saying it's never ok to use hurtful words.)-- it could be challenged.
posted by xarnop at 1:02 PM on December 20, 2015 [13 favorites]

Can we make it go viral among headline writers, please? I'm tired to seeing "combatting poverty" and "surging against ebola"

Oh sure, start some kind of War On Journalism.
posted by Foosnark at 1:34 PM on December 20, 2015 [4 favorites]

I've been to countless NVC workshops and always enjoy the language-Nazis' gasps when they hear Marshall (or another respected NVC teacher) say that it's not about the words. Duh. The spirit is waaay more important, it's just being aware of our words is a helpful way to become aware of our attitudes, and nurture the spirit we want. You can be nonviolent while swearing at someone depending on the context.

The ease with which NVC gets misused underscores how challenging the shift is. Same thing happens with religions that start from a good place.
posted by johnabbe at 2:22 PM on December 20, 2015 [7 favorites]

This is really fascinating, and at 45 minutes in I've already found myself challenged during the exercises.

Thanks for the post!
posted by sutt at 2:38 PM on December 20, 2015 [1 favorite]

Be like the boy! Be like the boy! We love Roy!
posted by jpe at 2:49 PM on December 20, 2015 [1 favorite]

My experience has been similar to Myca's... it's been used in mostly a passive-aggressive manner. One friend is prone to "subtweeting" people in the guise of "I wish our community could just come together but some people blah blah blah" and we all know who he's talking about.
posted by desjardins at 2:55 PM on December 20, 2015 [1 favorite]

The ease with which NVC gets misused underscores how challenging the shift is.

A similar outcome is true for the Canters' Assertive Discipline. Alternatives to violence are challenging because they're counterintuitive.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 3:30 PM on December 20, 2015 [1 favorite]

I would like to suggest that the misuse is because it is framed as training and education. That implies that the obstacles are a mixture of being uninformed and of having been mistrained. All systems (and NVC is one) have to be framed as something and all framings have limitations. As johnabbe put it, the change necessary is spiritual and technique can only guide you toward that happening. The workshop makes it appear a lot easier than it is, in part because people, especially those who would never attend such a workshop, are radically alienated from their needs and feelings and society is set up in a way to encourage and perpetuate that. Indeed for every NVC workshop there are probably hundreds of events which could be thought of as Jackal training workshops.

What it reminds me of the most is "est" seminars which were expensive and thus mainly aimed at first world problems.
posted by Obscure Reference at 4:03 PM on December 20, 2015 [2 favorites]

Not being able to afford these seminars, like not being able to afford EST or other cult-like "therapies" or systems of psychobabble is one of the few blessings of being poor.
posted by mermayd at 4:27 PM on December 20, 2015 [2 favorites]

There might be something good in this and I really want to hear it if there is, but this guy's lecture style and tempo are really "a behavior I don't like." Can't take it anymore after 5 min.
posted by ctmf at 4:29 PM on December 20, 2015 [1 favorite]

Yeah, labeling other people's communication as "violent" in an attempt to shame or shut them down is 100% the opposite of what NVC is about. It's not about making other people change the way they communicate, it's about changing the way you listen to and understand them.f

I mean, part of the premise of it is that everybody who says anything, however "violent," is coming from a place of legitimate human needs and emotions, and the challenge at hand is to understand that and find a connection through that.

If it were done well I think that the shocking thing about NVC would be the speech that it allows and works with rather than the speech that it shuts down and does away with.

But I guess people take from it what they want to take from it.

As far as affording seminars and stuff like that, my understanding of NVC, such as it is, came from 2 books worth about $20-30 total and reading some stuff on the internet.

I didn't even have to join a cult!
posted by edheil at 4:58 PM on December 20, 2015 [7 favorites]

edheil- totally; the experience of using the techniques on your own terms to build better peaceful communication skills is totally different than deciding everyone around you is inferior if they aren't using these techniques to your liking (especially when you've done/doing something to hurt them and you don't like their anger).

I don't in any way want to dissuade people from learning the techniques I thought some of it was useful also. So the reaction of aversion to nvc people might have in their nerves is when it's brought up to the benefit of someone who has done some harmful stuff and doesn't want anyone to get angry about it.

If someone punches me and I yell at them, I think the bigger issue is that they punched me not that I had a natural reaction of yelling in response. So yeah, basically in the hands of narcissistic jerks (or even more often unaware people who don't realize what they're doing) nvc is just another tool- and it IS good to be aware that can happen so that people don't all rush to shush the person angry at being mistreated more than they are concerned about mistreatment itself. If we are going to grow a larger peace focused group consciousness we need to be aware that enforcing peace can have the consequence of silencing the people fighting back against oppression and abuses being done to them quietly and silently or behind closed doors. You can do a lot of aweful things to people with a smile on your face and "kind" polite discourse around it. I was also around people who wanted to do restorative justice with rape victims and when a rape victim spoke up in anger and rage they wanted rape victims to do this, the group promoting all these "peaceful" solutions all framed this person as not being ready to be at peace or in an inferior mindset and made her concerns seem unwarranted and she stormed out of the room. See, the angry one! Not peaceful like everyone else! It was really gross.
posted by xarnop at 6:13 PM on December 20, 2015 [3 favorites]

Thanks for posting, Foci for Analysis! I just watched/listened to the entire 3+ hour thing while cleaning my apartment. And I found it incredibly useful in terms of helping me understand what my massively annoying Marxist buddy is trying to do when he engages (well, attempts to engage) in NVC and also helpful for me in thinking about how to deal with my dry-drunk, always unhappy dad. My dad is very much an "I'm right, you're wrong" kind of guy. I was that kind of gal before I found Al-Anon. I think there are some super-helpful techniques in the video. The most helpful thing was in the last (half? third?) when Rosenberg talks about how you shouldn't say yes to stuff you don't want to do because everybody pays for that. Which is absolutely my experience. There were some other gems as well. I'm not a fan of word cops and I would tempted to slug any guy or gal with an STI who failed to inform me about their health status and then responded to my understandable and appropriate indignation with NVC bullshit. Speaking of which, Rosenberg also explains how to call bullshit in "giraffe" speak. I loved that. I would never say what he said in exactly that way. But after a lifetime of hurt feelings, anger and miscommunication between my dad, myself and other family members, I'm up for giving it a try this Friday when I see him. You know, on an emergency basis only.
posted by Bella Donna at 6:18 PM on December 20, 2015 [4 favorites]

I was also around people who wanted to do restorative justice with rape victims and when a rape victim spoke up in anger and rage they wanted rape victims to do this, the group promoting all these "peaceful" solutions all framed this person as not being ready to be at peace or in an inferior mindset and made her concerns seem unwarranted and she stormed out of the room. See, the angry one! Not peaceful like everyone else! It was really gross.

Yes yes yes, exactly xarnop. Part of the problem is that it's incredibly important for people who have been victimized to be able to name their abusers as abusers. So of course abusers would flock to a conflict resolution system that makes explicit blaming verboten. Extra points if it makes them sound gentle and enlightened, and makes their victims sound like crazy ragemonsters.

I'm not saying that I don't see situations in which NVC could be useful, but when I said that I, personally, had only encountered it as a tool of abuse, I wasn't kidding
posted by Myca at 11:50 PM on December 20, 2015 [2 favorites]

I was also around people who wanted to do restorative justice with rape victims and when a rape victim spoke up in anger and rage they wanted rape victims to do this, the group promoting all these "peaceful" solutions all framed this person as not being ready to be at peace or in an inferior mindset and made her concerns seem unwarranted and she stormed out of the room. See, the angry one! Not peaceful like everyone else! It was really gross.

Group needs to focus a bit less on the restorative and a bit more on the justice.

The fundamental principle behind restorative justice is that giving perpetrators a way to make amends and re-integrate with society rather than forcing them into permanent outsider status will minimize the amount of offending that happens, based on the observation that as things stand right now, most offending is actually re-offending so that where the low-hanging fruit is.

But every supporter of restorative justice needs to acknowledge that there's a time and place, and right now is not always it.
posted by flabdablet at 11:58 PM on December 20, 2015 [2 favorites]

Yeah, NVC is my sister's religion. When she first told me about it I was a little confused; "What? Is this about domestic violence?" A lot of what they preach comes completely natural to me (be respectful to one another, that's not hard), but it works for her. I'm just thankful she didn't discover it until after I was out of the house.
posted by sockerpup at 8:54 AM on December 21, 2015