Goodbye, Steven Moffat; hello, Chris Chibnall!
January 22, 2016 2:42 PM   Subscribe

Steven Moffat is stepping down as showrunner of Doctor Who. Chris Chibnall, a longtime Who fan who has written episodes for both Who and Torchwood, as well as acting as showrunner for David Tennant in Broadchurch, will be taking his place. (Here's Chibnall expressing his opinions on Who in 1986.) The bad news is there will be no new Who in 2016, just a Christmas special, and Moffat's last series will air in 2017. The good news for Broadchurch fans is that they'll apparently get a Season Three filmed this year before Who takes Chibnall over, or vice versa.
posted by immlass (195 comments total) 22 users marked this as a favorite
 
Steven Moffat and his ego and all the rage he happily caused finally exhausted me to the point where I haven't even finished watching this season of Who. I love the stories and the actors I just...every time I sat down to watch I'd always catch my self sighing. That's not right, something you love shouldn't make you do that.

So I'm glad he's hitting the road eventually. I am both excited and terrified by the appointment of Chris Chibnall, who wrote the one episode of my beloved Torchwood that I can't watch without covering my eyes and making screechy noises.*

*Countrycide. GaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH
posted by angeline at 2:53 PM on January 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


"my timey-wimey is running out."

Yeah, this kind of just-too-twee is exactly why I'm not going to miss Moffat.
posted by langtonsant at 2:53 PM on January 22, 2016 [32 favorites]


I'm glad! Moffat's run eventually got so tiresome that I stopped watching. Honestly, I think the show should be changing up its creative team more often. Episodic sci-fi needs to feel fresh, and rotating staff is one way to ensure that.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:54 PM on January 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


I'm generally a fan of Moffats run, but I'd agree that it's been pretty inconsistent.

Chibnall, on the other hand, is likely to be pretty consistent...

Sigh.

Oh well, 10 seasons is a pretty long run for a modern UK TV show.
posted by Artw at 2:56 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


The first season (series? run?) of Brodchurch was brilliant. The second was classic "the story was over but they threw enough money at us, so we made more." I have no interest in a third.
posted by crush-onastick at 3:00 PM on January 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


Chibnall wrote that drama about The Great Train Robbery, which was pretty good, and... er... I'm sure there's something... it'll come... hang on...
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:01 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Moffats had a good run - started strong, dipped a bit in later Matt Smith, revitalised with Capaldi.

Chibnall though, Jesus, wonder how far down the list he was.
posted by brilliantmistake at 3:02 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Poor old Mark Gatiss.
posted by dng at 3:02 PM on January 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Poor old Mark Gatiss.

My hope was for Gatiss channeling Hinchcliffe
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:04 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


I think a rethink is what Dr. Who needs right now.

Who had increasingly become a manic pixie dreamboy which had fueled its decline. Less mysteries and space monsters, more "O-oer, aren't I wacky!", particularly by the end of the Smith run. Didn't help that the Clara character, who seemed so great in the beginning, wasn't so strongly drawn as the previous companions (Donna was a personal favourite). I'd hoped they'd make her his equal, a latter day Romana, but it never seemed to gel properly.
posted by bonehead at 3:04 PM on January 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


I am so excited by this. I liked his first season, pretty much, but each further season has been less interesting (more anger-inducing), and I stopped a few episodes into Capaldi (who did his best with what he had).

I thought Broadchurch season 1 was great, and season 2 was, well, a show. I'm not sure I'm excited by the choice of another white guy who worked with the previous showrunner, but I'll give it a shot.
posted by jeather at 3:05 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I would happily watch Peter Capaldi read a phone book. Unfortunately, Steven Moffatt does not write phone books.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 3:06 PM on January 22, 2016 [50 favorites]


I'll be really depressed if Capaldi leaves with the moff
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:06 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]




I really like the Capaldi seasons of Doctor Who, and really hated "Cyberwoman". I'm not thrilled by this news.
posted by Gary at 3:08 PM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I gave up far too late, having not bothered with Capaldi's episodes. I don't know why I didn't give up early other than a decades long tradition in my family. Moffat and Davies were the George Lucas of the Doctor Who world. It was so bad I really don't think I'll ever bother watching it again unless they toss out all the nonsense, which is unlikely.

I've just come to accept it's a mainstream show now and marks, quite spectacularly, the decline of BBC produced shows in general. Doctor Who could be successful on NBC, CBS, or ABC. It's been that bad.
posted by juiceCake at 3:08 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]




Episodic sci-fi needs to feel fresh, and rotating staff is one way to ensure that.

I think this is an excellent point. Moffat has, at times, done some brilliant things with the format, and got brilliant people to do brilliant things with it too, but he's also been extremely annoying at times*, particularly when it's felt like we're watching "another Moffat story". But I think your point applies more broadly to Who. Reflecting on 50-odd years, Who has kinda always got shit every time a particular approach has dominated for too long. It's a show given to becoming clichéd, partly due to its longevity, but also as a result of the "same heroes / new setting" structure that sits at the heart of the show. Arguably, one reason that the Cartmel/McCoy era has got more popular as time goes on is that it was cancelled before it managed to outstay its welcome.

I am maybe a bit concerned that we seem to have another Who fanboy taking over, though. I am inclined to think that Moffat's long term obsession with the show has been largely detrimental to his performance as showrunner.

*I do think that the fact that both Moffat and Davies appear to be quite unpleasant people has increased the tendency to be vocal about their failings as showrunners, but clearly the failings have been there.
posted by howfar at 3:09 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


My girlfriend's daughter's response to the news was "Maybe he'll bring back Tennant," with heart eye emojis after. Yeah, we're watching Broadchurch and Jessica Jones and whatever else David Tennant is in, forever.

I don't get the Moffat hate, but I'm a relative newcomer. I'm mostly through Matt Smith and I'm still enjoying it.
posted by Huck500 at 3:11 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I don't really get the love for Capaldi. He mumbles so much that I can't really understand half of what he says and the whole aging rock star with sonic sunglasses thing is pretty cringey.
posted by octothorpe at 3:16 PM on January 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Does this mean they'll open TardisTours at the Doctor Who Experience??? (Going in March.)
posted by rikschell at 3:17 PM on January 22, 2016


I never got the Moffat hate. Scoreboard, punks. I'm eager to see what he does next.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 3:23 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think people were hoping Capaldi would be Doctor Malcolm Tucker.

I know I was.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 3:23 PM on January 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


The first season (series? run?) of Brodchurch was brilliant. The second was classic "the story was over but they threw enough money at us, so we made more."

And the US version (also starring Tennant) made the 2nd UK series look as brilliant as the 1st series.

As for Moffat leaving...it's been rumored for awhile now, but I don't think anyone thought it would be this soon. The year wait for a new series blows, though.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:25 PM on January 22, 2016


I really like the Capaldi seasons of Doctor Who, and really hated "Cyberwoman". I'm not thrilled by this news.

I left Torchwood after that episode and never came back.
posted by kurumi at 3:30 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Based on The Five(ish) Doctors I would say to give it to Davison, since that was brilliant. Of course my fantasy had always been Pegg, Frost, and Wright as the showrunners. It would have been fried gold.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 3:32 PM on January 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


End of an era. I for one will deeply miss all my fellow MeFites tirelessly complaining about what a horrible writer Moffatt is. Here's to hoping they grow to hate the new guy at least half as much.
posted by scalefree at 3:33 PM on January 22, 2016 [24 favorites]


I'll be really depressed if Capaldi leaves with the moff

Capaldi's already hinted this next series could be his last one:
“This could be my final year – it’s terrifying. I love Doctor Who but it can be quite an insular world and I do want to do other things. There will come a time when this is over. But I knew that when I started. I was thinking about my regeneration scene from the outset. That’s my terrible melancholic nature. When you accept the job you know there’ll come a day, inevitably, when you’ll be saying goodbye.”
End of an era. I for one will deeply miss all my fellow MeFites tirelessly complaining about what a horrible writer Moffatt is. Here's to hoping they grow to hate the new guy at least half as much.

Oh, most definitely - it's traditional among Dr. Who fans since the days of David Whitaker's departure.
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:37 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I left Torchwood after that episode and never came back.

I guess that means you didn't escape the Alien Sex Gas one...
posted by Artw at 3:37 PM on January 22, 2016


It makes me kind of sad to see how many people have been turned off of Who by Moffat to the point that they haven't watched the last season or two. After a somewhat rocky start the Capaldi episodes have been phenomenal (particularly the most recent season), and in most cases aren't too egregiously Moffat-ey.
posted by Itaxpica at 3:40 PM on January 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Honestly, Torchwood was another show where they front-loaded all of the true garbage and the rest was actually pretty good. The Alien Sex Gas was the pilot, IIRC. Post-Countrycide was where it got better, and the second season was a little more consistently good. Though it's been a while, so I might be misremembering.
posted by tobascodagama at 3:41 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


My girlfriend's daughter's response to the news was "Maybe he'll bring back Tennant," with heart eye emojis after. Yeah, we're watching Broadchurch and Jessica Jones and whatever else David Tennant is in, forever.

I remember a long time ago reading that David Tennant joked about the idea of coming back to Who as a new regeneration of the Master. While I'd be loathe to loose Missy, I'd also be down for that.

I feel like Moffat leaving is bittersweet. I think it's time, but I don't have the great animosity for him that most of the people on my corner of the internet have. I do feel like some great opportunities in arc building have been lost. The Gallifrey set up is a great example of this. The 50th Anniversary ends with this great setup of the quest to find home -- which is then dropped for the next two seasons and then Gallifrey magically appears in the confession dial. If I was in charge, it would have been the Doctor, Missy, and Clara forming an uneasy triad looking for Gallifrey. But I also really enjoyed a lot of the more recent episodes on an individual level (particularly The Husbands of River Song), so it's not all bad.

It'll be interesting to see where Chinball takes it.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 3:42 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


No, pretty sure it was all garbage while Chibnall was involved. By contrast his Who episodes have mostly just been dull.
posted by Artw at 3:42 PM on January 22, 2016


And because I feel like I should have some sort of cranky opinion -- I'd actually be more excited to see Moffat leave Sherlock, which I feel has particularly gone downhill. A lot more so than Doctor Who.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 3:44 PM on January 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Really? I was kind of hoping this might mean they make more than one episode of it in the next three years.
posted by Artw at 3:48 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]




I had decided to travel forward in time to a better Doctor Who anyway so this is mostly moot. The only problem was that I am really slow time traveler. It worked for Star Wars though!
posted by srboisvert at 3:58 PM on January 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Trust Steven Moffat to pick the one guy (and of course it's a guy) who was on my Definite NO list.

God I can't even be angry anymore.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:05 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Chris Chibnall wrote one of my favorite episodes of Life on Mars, and for that alone I'm excited.
posted by tzikeh at 4:05 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I quit Doctor Who after Donna left, but came back for Capaldi Doctor. I've been enjoying it. Aside from Moffat's issues with women, it's still a pretty solid show.

(However, that is a pretty big 'aside'. I miss the days of Coupling when I thought Moffat was satirising gender essentialist comedy stereotypes.)
posted by betweenthebars at 4:07 PM on January 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Thorzdad: As for Moffat leaving...it's been rumored for awhile now, but I don't think anyone thought it would be this soon.

are you kidding this is NOT SOON ENOUGH
posted by tzikeh at 4:07 PM on January 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


Yeah, we're watching Broadchurch and Jessica Jones and whatever else David Tennant is in, forever.

I hope Casanova's on that list.
posted by Leon at 4:08 PM on January 22, 2016


I am not happy with one episode in 2016.
Not happy at all.
posted by Mezentian at 4:15 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


And Hamlet.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:15 PM on January 22, 2016


I would like the folks behind some totally unrelated BBC franchise -like Poirot, or Downton, or Morse- to take a crack at Who. There’s just a certain school of BBC writers that I seem unable to get behind, despite my best efforts, and I’d like them to all be tossed out on their ears. (Sherlock, Torchwood, Who, Gavin and Stacy -basically anything popular, because I am a no-fun crank. Grump grump grump.)
posted by Going To Maine at 4:17 PM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I left Torchwood after that episode and never came back.

So, you missed Children of Earth, which, personally, I think is a major, major failure you should think about rectifying.

If not the last few stories of S1 and much of S2.
posted by Mezentian at 4:18 PM on January 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


Look, if Chibnall is going to get anyone from Broadchurch on board Doctor Who (who wasn't already in Doctor Who), it's got to be Olivia Colman as the thirteenth Doctor.
posted by crossoverman at 4:25 PM on January 22, 2016 [19 favorites]


Ah, Olivia Colman was in the first episode of Matt Smith's tenure.

Mind you, not that that has ever stopped Who before.
posted by angeline at 4:29 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Practically a tradition.
posted by Artw at 4:33 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


some totally unrelated BBC franchise -like Poirot, or Downton, or Morse

Those three shows are indeed totally unrelated to the BBC. They're all ITV series. (This confusion might be down to BBC America showing series from ITV and Channel 4 as well as the Beeb. The different channels each have a different production style. Sounds like you don't like the BBC's, then...)
posted by rory at 4:38 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


In other news, Big Finish has, after a literal decade, gotten their hands on the new series license (at least, everything up to the end of the Matt Smith era) and are taking full advantage, including getting their first new-series Doctor, Ten, and beginning the Series That Must Never Exist - Time War (with both John Hurt and Paul McGann).
posted by BiggerJ at 4:40 PM on January 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


That is goof news. The Titan comics are not bad either, especially the Ewing and Williams ones, though reading those ones now might seem a little different as they're practically a tribute to David Bowie.
posted by Artw at 4:43 PM on January 22, 2016


I was thinking that Moffat can't be blamed for originating "timey wimey" but then I looked it up and saw it came from "Blink" which he wrote. Fuck.

He really was great for the first few seasons he ran, and in the episodes he wrote before he took over. Running Doctor Who is a weird job and the show runners all degrade over time.

I'm wondering what the deal with him and Jenna Coleman is, because Clara should have left the series once the "impossible girl" thing was explained, not dragged on for two more horrible years. All that did was drag in the awful teaching and boyfriend storylines.
posted by w0mbat at 4:45 PM on January 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


I'm in the "thrilled Moffat is leaving" camp. He completely killed my desire to watch New Who so I'm hoping that Chibnall can at least not write like he's filling out a sheet of mad libs every season. I will be sad if Capaldi does leave at the same time since I feel like he hasn't really gotten the best material. I actually like him as the Doctor but between the storylines and disliking Clara (which I think is probably writing problems as well since I liked her in the beginning) I quit watching not long after he started his run.
posted by kassila at 4:50 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


I mean, I kind of liked Torchwood. The first series is fairly dire now and then (I liked "Countrycide" and a few others), but the second really clicked. The show found its own identity and made it work. Children of Earth gets a lot of love, but to me it's when Torchwood stopped being itself, figuring what people really wanted was a dreary X-Files retread, and...well...this was true, I guess, on the whole, but not true for me. And Miracle Day -- holy shit. I honestly do not believe I have watched a worse show all the way through. But hey! That wasn't Chris Chibnall! So.

I haven't enjoyed Who in a few years. I like Capaldi, I like Jenna Coleman, but I haven't liked the show very much. The last two series I just couldn't sit through to the end. And I want to remind you that I watched every episode of Torchwood: Miracle Day. It's just...very...loud. And the stories are all about obsessively nerd-watching episodes so you get clues to the big reveal ten episodes later. That's fine, but what if I just don't give a fuck about what I'm watching right now?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:51 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I am ecstatic about the possibility of being able to watch Who again, after finally losing my patience with Moffat's tenure this last season. Bummed about having to wait so long though. I will be skipping series 10, since I already know it'll be a bunch of dumb bullshit that doesn't go anywhere and has no consequences.
posted by trunk muffins at 4:58 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Since we're kind of in hate mode... I think this thread needs more Russell T. Davies hate. There's a guy I was very happy to see the back of.

Otherwise, so long Moffat I didn't hate you even if your female characters were poorly written! Chibnall, I'll try not to hate you as much as I hated Broadchurch and your boring Who episodes. Capaldi, I'll miss you terribly when you go and I hope they don't replace you with someone as silly as Matt Smith or as mopey as David Tennant.

Big Finish, though, don't you ever change. I love you every which way but loose.
posted by Ashwagandha at 4:59 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I think people were hoping Capaldi would be Doctor Malcolm Tucker.

I know that I for one was looking forward to episodes set entirely inside UNIT headquarters, fielding reports coming in from the field about dinosaurs in some quarry somewhere outside Manchester. Eventually the lines of communication would get crossed and things would be headed for disaster, at which point The Doctor shows up for two and a half minutes, yells at people, solves the problem, and then buggers off again, leaving the UNIT high command looking slightly befuddled, audibly debating how to spin the media to cover up their incompetence over the closing credits.
posted by MarchHare at 4:59 PM on January 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


Since we're kind of in hate mode... I think this thread needs more Russell T. Davies hate. There's a guy I was very happy to see the back of.

“All good show runners are alike; each bad show runner is bad in their own way.”
posted by Going To Maine at 5:04 PM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I think this thread needs more Russell T. Davies hate.

Yeah.

Dobby Doctor and the End of Time's farewell tour were real low points.

But the hate for both is excessive.
posted by Mezentian at 5:06 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Sunday and Monday used to be the big tv nights in angrycat household, because there would be Who on Sunday and Walking Dead on Monday. I don't why Doctor Who lost its grip on me so profoundly. If I was in a room with either Capaldi or Tennant I would start vibrating with happiness. Yet, I really don't care other than idly how Capaldi leaves the show, felt the same way about Jenna Coleman.

The Tennant episodes, though. I even liked stupid cry face in love with Rose Tennant episodes.

The disinterest in The Walking Dead needs no explanation.
posted by angrycat at 5:08 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Dobby Doctor

So... much... pain...
posted by Ashwagandha at 5:10 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


I think this thread needs more Russell T. Davies hate. There's a guy I was very happy to see the back of.

I have never understood the (comparative) love for him. I mean, Nine was fantastic, but that seems to have been mostly Eccleston. And I have never understood how Moffat is the one who gets all the hate-on for his treatment of women when he made the Doctor a creepy uncle. Seriously, here's the guy who writes the great romance of the Doctor as a, what, 19-year-old girl when he's 900 and drags her off into time and space and puts the moves on her? GROSS. And then the potential of Martha is mostly wasted because of romance stuff (the eternal triangle with the not-quite-gone but definitely not forgotten Rose)? And then we have to spend Donna's time making sure we know how hilarious it is that the Doctor might bang a middle aged woman, ha ha ha, until we FRIDGE her at the end of the season to make the already too emo Tenth Doctor more emo?

I mean, really, I have my gripes with Moffat but even with the big failures he's had with River, which he at least went back to address, and his hamhandedness wth what he seems to think a girl/companion wants, his story arcs have still made me less rage-y than RTD+Ten ever did. (Without ever getting into Dobby Doctor aka Tinkerbell Jesus, etc.) And here's hoping that Chibnall, who didn't make me scream at the TV over some pretty sensitive subject matter in Broadchurch, does better than either of them.

Please do not do a Farewell Tour, Moffat. Davies' tour was down with the worst of Who, and I say that as someone who just watched Trial of a Time Lord. I'd rather watch that again than End of Time.
posted by immlass at 5:14 PM on January 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


I say that as someone who just watched Trial of a Time Lord. I'd rather watch that again than End of Time.

WOAH.
Let's not go crazy here.
I mean, at least the end of The End Of Time made sense.
posted by Mezentian at 5:17 PM on January 22, 2016


Davies' tour was down with the worst of Who, and I say that as someone who just watched Trial of a Time Lord. I'd rather watch that again than End of Time.

I'd sooner watch The Twin Dilemma again than of End Of Time. That's how much I hated RTD. THAT MONSTER!
posted by Ashwagandha at 5:20 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'd sooner watch The Twin Dilemma again than of End Of Time.

But End of Time had Wilf!
Twin Dilemma had.... those twins.
posted by Mezentian at 5:22 PM on January 22, 2016


(Also, let it be known, I chose to watch Time and The Rani this week. With the commentary.)
posted by Mezentian at 5:23 PM on January 22, 2016


I can't say I'm sorry to see Moffat go, and that's from someone whose been cheerfully watching his stuff since Press Gang hit children's TV. Apparently when I was 18. I could have sworn I was younger. Oh well, what is university if not a chance to watch lots of kids TV.

I started off loving his Doctor Who. It was a more coherent universe than is usually presented, and it let loose and had fun with the idea of time travel. I wouldn't want that all the time, but it was interesting to see someone do it. That worked for me until the 50th anniversary and then it started heading down hill.

Clara began changing character and direction from one series to the next. Capaldi's doctor I wanted to like, but he got lumbered with that awful series with far too much time spent at school and a side order of charisma free companion relationship. It picked up again with the latest series, and if you dumped the school series and headed straight into that instead I'd likely still be happy. As it is, even enjoying it, it contributes to the feeling the series is all over the shop.

As for the future, based on Chris Chibnall's work so far, I'm going to hate this. With his Torchwood and Doctor Who episodes I vary from boredom to irritation. Broadchurch is just not my thing, so I've never seen that. Still I'll give it a shot, and you're not a real Doctor Who fan until there's been a run you watched, hating most of it and complaining bitterly all the way. (Although, Colin Baker/Bonnie Langford, I've done my time already!)
posted by SometimeNextMonth at 5:26 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I chose to watch Time and The Rani this week. With the commentary.

Hey, if Chibnall brought back the Rani and made Wilf a companion I'd support him. I still will not watch the abomination of End of Time ever again!
posted by Ashwagandha at 5:29 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


God, anyone but Chibnall! I honestly thought the next show runner was a literal coinflip between Whithouse (yay!) or J.Random BBCDramaPerson shipped in with strict orders to make the prog "for kids again".

Whatever Muppet picked Chibbers presumably thinks he can construct an underwhelming mishmash which somehow becomes uberpopular* again, but lightning doesn't strike twice.

*the fact that some people might consider Who in these terms isn't lost on me, haha!
posted by comealongpole at 5:29 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


you're not a real Doctor Who fan until there's been a run you watched, hating most of it and complaining bitterly

It's the Manchester City of TV shows.
posted by w0mbat at 5:30 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Any chance that a new series will involve extended arcs with a broken down Tardis more or less trapped in various time periods? I kinda like the classic Pertwee plot device and having longer arcs to develop relationships with non-companions would be an interesting change.
posted by vuron at 5:36 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I just want it to be more earnest and less smug and self-aware and campy.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 5:40 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


I have just been "feh" about the show for awhile. I don't even feel like rushing to watch the newer seasons until they show up on Netflix. Unfortunately, I don't think the "feh" is that likely to change in 2017.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:47 PM on January 22, 2016


I just want it to be more earnest and less smug and self-aware and campy.

I think I'd like the same. But I'd like it to cover all my genre TV watching and not just Nu Who.
posted by Ashwagandha at 5:54 PM on January 22, 2016


self-aware and campy.

This is the entire history of Who.
posted by Artw at 5:55 PM on January 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


But, can we agree that Peak Camp was The Horns of Nimon?
posted by Mezentian at 5:56 PM on January 22, 2016


And there was much rejoicing!
posted by Catblack at 5:58 PM on January 22, 2016


Not really, TBH.
posted by Artw at 5:58 PM on January 22, 2016


Twice. Two fucking times, they've gone through this thought process:

"Hey let's give the companion a boyfriend! Why not have the Doctor really hate him and constantly call him an idiot! Hey, let's make the boyfriend black!"

So you get a whole season where the Doctor looks like a racist dickhead, needlessly insulting a perfectly nice black guy for no good reason while the audience feels a bit uncomfortable. And then they did it again.
posted by w0mbat at 5:59 PM on January 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


There is a difference between being campy and self-aware and being an endlessly recursive loop of self-reference.
posted by vuron at 6:00 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


A chronic hysteresis?
posted by Artw at 6:00 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


This is the entire history of Who.

Different showrunners & Doctors were worse than others. For instance, one of the Doctors was hired because he was a laugh at a wedding reception.
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:08 PM on January 22, 2016


This is all because of the eye boogers isn't it?
EYE BOOGERS.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:11 PM on January 22, 2016


Anyone else reading the comments and making a mental list of who does and does not have wrong Doctor Who opinions?

Just me then?

Oh. •﹏•
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:16 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


EYE BOOGERS.

I suspect that might be why Mark Gatiss didn't get the showrunner job.
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:18 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I might be over-optimistic (certainly wouldn't be the first time I've been that with NuWho), but I'm less bummed about Chibnall taking over than I have been about any of the other changes since the revival. Sure, his Torchwood & Who episodes are uniformly mediocre - but you can't accuse him of writing smug, wink-wink-nod-nod self aware, now-let's-shit-all-over-any-sort-of-continuity (let-alone-plot-consistency) FOR THE GREATEST ENDING EVER!!! camp tripe.

(Let alone the frankly odd and creepy issues with women displayed. If I - a still fairly unreconstructed middle-aged male who's terrible at finding nuance in film & TV - can see some fairly odd, and let's face it, creepy 'mother, lover, nurturer - bitch' issues in NuWho, then it's gotta be at levels more appropriate to a pantomime…)

Chibnall at least seems to be able to come up with good story outlines, even if the polish is lacking. If he can translate that to developing an overall series outline, & choose good others to write episodes that are stand-alone but fill in the steps with story - not just 'go write a story, but you've gotta tack this somewhere in the beginning/middle and drop this hammer at the end, to show the series story arc is developing' - then there's hope yet.
posted by Pinback at 6:20 PM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


The thing about Chris Chibnall is that he seems to be what TV commissioners think of as competent rather than interesting or inspired, so we're in for several seasons of competent television. Personally, I'd have much rather Whithouse, but then I'm the person who really, really liked the last two seasons of Being Human. And the person who liked the last two series of Doctor Who, come to think of it. So, I realise my tastes aren't mainstream, exactly.

That said, for the first time ever, I've become faintly fixated on the idea that a particular actor should be the next Doctor, so I sort of understand that madness now. It's ridiculous: it's up to the showrunner and what they say, goes. Because they actually have to do it.

I just wish it was someone else, that's all.

(It's Adeel Akhtar. I'd quite like Adeel Akhtar to be the Doctor for a bit, because I'd like a Doctor like Adeel Akhtar. But I'm not the showrunner, it's nothing to do with me.)
posted by Grangousier at 6:21 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Anyone else reading the comments and making a mental list of who does and does not have wrong Doctor Who opinions?

Heh. I'm barely holding back my impulse to be all "SPORTSBALL BIGGER ON THE INSIDES" as done in any thread on the other side of the Mefi Spectrum.

oh wait i failed jerks
YNWA

posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:23 PM on January 22, 2016


Broadchurch was awful. Its awfulness came from being highly derivative of the grief-porn-posing-as-crime-story shows, though, so I don't know if it speaks to Chibnall's ability to execute what's handed to him. Maybe if he picks good people to listen to when it comes to creative direction, it could turn out well. (It won't.)
posted by nom de poop at 6:28 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I wouldn't have minded Whithouse at all. That would have been quite fun actually. I really loved all of Being Human, yes, even the final season! I would liked the new trio to have gotten a bit more time...ah well. Maybe Whithouse can write another episode of Who and they can bring in that delightful Scottish girl who was the new ghost.
posted by angeline at 6:30 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


The doctor should be a woman. The box shouldn't save the day. Less magic and more science. Longer arcs, character-changing consequences, greater internal consistency in and between plots. Some mild historical sticklerism.

These requirements are obvious.
posted by Construction Concern at 6:35 PM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


If the next Doctor isn't The Grint I'll eat my hat (I've got solid hat-noshing experience from prior predictions, so granted this isn't the boldest of statements).

Expanding on Toby Whithouse, I've not watched Being Human, but heard plenty good about it. I just think his Who episodes have got better and better, plus his stuff seems to show an interest in Old Who without the reverence that can get in the way, as well as a definite desire to broaden Who. He's funny, but usually prioritises the human touch where Moff prefers to go for the relationship-gag. Much less narrow than Gatiss's oft under-rated approach.

I still want my Peter Jackson episode though. Wouldn't have minded them blowing a whole season budget on that (OK, maybe minded a little bit).
posted by comealongpole at 6:36 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Anyone else reading the comments and making a mental list of who does and does not have wrong Doctor Who opinions?

You must be new here if you don't already know. Welcome!
posted by immlass at 6:38 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm also firmly in the Toby Whithouse camp, though if the rumours about the approach are true you can see why he wasn't interested.

"Please take over command of the crumbling fort as mini-Moffat, and keep the screaming hordes at bay while we all hope and pray for Commander Flash-Fantastic's triumphant return" isn't really an inspiring pitch…
posted by Pinback at 6:50 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Who's this?
posted by Artw at 7:00 PM on January 22, 2016


“I have decided to schedule Steven’s big finale series in Spring 2017 to bring the nation together for what will be a huge event on the channel. 2016 is spoilt with national moments including the Euros and Olympics and I want to hold something big back for 2017 - I promise it will be worth the wait!”

What annoying bullshit. Let's just get Moffat's run finished already so we can see what Chibnall can do.
posted by homunculus at 7:11 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


I think this thread needs more Russell T. Davies hate.

Then there's Murray Gold...
posted by juiceCake at 7:29 PM on January 22, 2016


I think you mean MURRAY GOLD.

TBH I use the that's largely the sounMURRAY GOLDdmixer mMURRAY GOLDakMURRAY GOLDing it hard to hear the MURRAY GOLD.
posted by Artw at 7:35 PM on January 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


Things bothered me during the Russell T Davies era, but I stopped watching during the River Song story arc. A new order could be the thing to get me watching again. Or Dudley Simpson incidental music and less fancy sets.
posted by Radiophonic Oddity at 7:45 PM on January 22, 2016


The thing that improved my Who viewing during Moffat's term most was that I stopped watching all the previews. When you don't hear in advance how every episode is The. BEST. SCARIEST. FUNNIEST. MOST AMAZING. EVER. every week, the ups and downs of the series are much more tolerable. For me, anyway.

See also: we are saving this last season until 2017 when the nation has the emotional bandwidth for all the awesomeness of the last season. (Which as an old skool Who fan, I read as "until we have enough money to put it on".)
posted by immlass at 7:51 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Good news! Dudley Simpson is still alive.
Bad news, he's 93, so he might not be around in 2017 to score an awesome episode that will, I assume, reunite The Doctor with Ian Chesterton (who is a spritely 91).
posted by Mezentian at 7:56 PM on January 22, 2016


Ugh. He can't leave too soon. And take Capaldi with him, please. The last three seasons have been a painful slog. Here's to something different.
posted by greermahoney at 8:12 PM on January 22, 2016


Whithouse was absolutely my top pick for who should take over, in part because his weakest scripts were still pretty good (and his stronger scripts were great), in part because Being Human proved him capable of running a consistently good show that ended with a completely different cast of characters than it started with, and in part because his Who work showed he could utilize its long history without being overly reverent of or beholden to it. I don't know any behind-the-scenes scuttlebutt, but I have to assume he was offered the position and turned it down, because passing over an interested Whithouse in favor of the guy whose best contribution to the show was probably "Dinosaurs In A Spaceship" just doesn't make sense.

I've meant to get around to Broadchurch -- having heard nothing but good things about it until this thread -- but I haven't yet, so I can't say if Chibnall's showrunning abilities have improved since Torchwood. In lieu of that, I'm forced to assume he'll show the kind of attention to detail that gave us Ianto Jones being filled with righteous fury at Captain Jack for murdering his girlfriend, followed by Ianto Jones and Captain Jack sharing an affectionate sexual relationship that's clearly being going on for some time in the very next episode.

Also, he's the guy who wrote a woman being converted into a Cyberman that had cybertits and cyber-high-heels. I suspect any concerns folks had about Moffat's ability to write a strong female Doctor would have to apply to Chibnall as well.

It'll be interesting to see where Chinball takes it.

Chinball. Well, now I'm NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO UNSEE THAT.
posted by brianrobot at 8:20 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'd sooner watch The Twin Dilemma again than of End Of Time.

End Of Time had a badly misconceived version of The Master scowling in a hoodie and doing embarrassing power jumps. Twin Dilemma reconfigured the Doctor/companion dynamic into that of a vicious abusive relationship. The former made me scrunch my eyes and go, "Well, that's not a good idea." The latter broke the show.
posted by brianrobot at 8:35 PM on January 22, 2016


Did someone mention The Grint who stole Whoville?
Also Broadchurch? Ick
now back to our regularly scheduled Moffat hatefest.
posted by evilDoug at 8:46 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


End Of Time had a badly misconceived version of The Master scowling in a hoodie and doing embarrassing power jumps.

Yeah.... not Moffatt.... Moffatt turned The Master into "Missy".
The FIEND!
posted by Mezentian at 9:01 PM on January 22, 2016


[Chibnall] said: "Doctor Who is the ultimate BBC programme: bold, unique, vastly entertaining, and adored all around the world. So it's a privilege and a joy to be the next curator of this funny, scary and emotional family drama. I’ve loved Doctor Who since I was four years old, and I’m relishing the thought of working with the exceptional team at BBC Wales to create new characters, creatures and worlds for the Doctor to explore. Steven’s achieved the impossible by continually expanding Doctor Who's creative ambition, while growing its global popularity. He’s been a dazzling and daring showrunner, and hearing his plans and stories for 2017, it’s clear he’ll be going out with a bang. Just to make my life difficult."

WHY DOES EVERYONE WHO WORKS FOR THE BBC TALK LIKE THIS
posted by brianrobot at 9:03 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Gotta give Moffat credit for setting the stage for a woman to be the Doctor.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:04 PM on January 22, 2016


WHY DOES EVERYONE WHO WORKS FOR THE BBC TALK LIKE THIS

BBC PR writes the script, I imagine.
posted by Mezentian at 9:05 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I really enjoyed the Matt Smith episodes (and never got the Moffat hate), but count me as someone who deeply hated series 8 (Capaldi series 1) to the point that I wanted the whole thing burned, encased in concrete, and buried at the bottom of the ocean. The entire thing was a trainwreck.

But for some reason I watched series 9 anyway, and damned if I wasn't surprised by how good it was. Heaven Sent was one of the finer prices of sci-fi I've ever seen. I would happily take a series 10 with both Moffat and Capaldi if it kept the same level of quality.
posted by fremen at 9:12 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I don't know any behind-the-scenes scuttlebutt, but I have to assume he was offered the position and turned it down, because passing over an interested Whithouse in favor of the guy whose best contribution to the show was probably "Dinosaurs In A Spaceship" just doesn't make sense.
Sorry - I wasn't trying to be obtuse or mysterious, I thought it was in one of the links: the rumour getting around late last year was that Whithouse was offered the job of 'deputy' showrunner for a year while Moffat took a break to decide if he would continue, but declined.
posted by Pinback at 9:50 PM on January 22, 2016


Yeah.... not Moffatt.... Moffatt turned The Master into "Missy".
The FIEND!


Subjective opinion here, but I find the name “Missy” to be really vexing. It sounds, I dunno - childish. That said, I feel like both “Mistress” and “Madame” are also kind of difficult because they have vague S & M connotations (though so does “Master”, so…)

It’s a pickle! I like that they redid the character (though not everything about the characterization, but that name grates on my ears so much.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:58 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I would happily take a series 10 with both Moffat and Capaldi if it kept the same level of quality.

Well, hopefully you get your wish on quality, since Moffat and Capaldi are doing series 10. Chibnall is taking over for series 11.
posted by crossoverman at 10:07 PM on January 22, 2016


Remember when everybody was so excited about Moffatt taking over because he wrote all the best episodes?

I'm not going to sit here and shit on the show all night but to the extent that I have found New Who good at all it can mostly be attributed to a succession of strong leads and a drizzle of really great standalone episodes.
posted by atoxyl at 10:10 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Calling her "Missy" is just awful. So is the character's mania. And shouting. God, everyone on this show shouts all the time. It's like everyone is playing Tuco from Breaking Bad. Jesus Christ. I'm sorry, what were we talking about?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:11 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Please Time Lords - do NOT let Moffat regenerate!
posted by AGameOfMoans at 12:00 AM on January 23, 2016


>Broadchurch was awful. Its awfulness came from being highly derivative of the grief-porn-posing-as-crime-story shows,


Oh - I So much disagree :) I thought it was incredible and innovative in focusing on the townspeople's reactions and consequences of the crime rather than he crime itself.
posted by AGameOfMoans at 12:06 AM on January 23, 2016


I'm not going to sit here and shit on the show all night but to the extent that I have found New Who good at all it can mostly be attributed to a succession of strong leads and a drizzle of really great standalone episodes.

Same as it ever was, really.
I'm curious to see what Chibbers does, because I liked Dinosaurs On A Spaceship and Countrycide (although, I also liked Sleep No More quiet a bit).

And I'll miss Moffatt's stories, but the show works best when there is a shake-up every few years and he may have stayed too long, but I hope he writes future stories.

I'm just worried Capaldi will leave with him. He'll have done three seasons by then.
posted by Mezentian at 12:09 AM on January 23, 2016


Not thinking about future disappointments yet, too busy dancing in the streets. Hooray! The Moff is (basically) Gone!
posted by sldownard at 12:37 AM on January 23, 2016


The best thing about Torchwood was that sweet, sexy welsh accent of Eve Myles.
posted by Pendragon at 1:08 AM on January 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Dear BBC
We can haz McGann specials during the year break?

At least three specials, one for each 'canon' outfit.
Maybe get some Charlie Pollard up in there? Moar Ohila?

Pony request: Raston Warrior Robots.

Regards,
M
posted by Mezentian at 2:28 AM on January 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Chibnall has to be the most boring and bland choice, which is no really surprise for the BBC at the moment - where the're can't be anything challenging at all for fear of negative reaction.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:29 AM on January 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


We can haz McGann specials during the year break?


One of the most irritating things with the Beeb is that there's so much they could do with Who but don't, especially with the torrents of money now flowing in from around the world.

Say what you like about RTD but he had ambition and vision for what the BBC could do.
posted by brilliantmistake at 3:42 AM on January 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


I liked Torchwood until they hit Venice Beach. My fav new Who season was the first one with Christopher Eccleston and Billie Piper. I haven't really watched in maybe three years, though.
posted by persona au gratin at 3:54 AM on January 23, 2016


brianrobot: have you seen that BBC comedy with Hugh Bonneville where they spoof the BBC corporate culture? I've seen only a few episodes, but I thought it was brilliant.
posted by persona au gratin at 3:58 AM on January 23, 2016


"my timey-wimey is running out."

Yeah, this kind of just-too-twee is exactly why I'm not going to miss Moffat.


I daresay Dr. Who would've withered hitherto without a prodigious dollop of twee.
posted by fairmettle at 4:21 AM on January 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I hope this isn't an inappropriate place to ask, but as someone who only watched a few episodes of the first season on the New Dr. Who, I've heard a lot about the show having issues with how women are portrayed. Can anyone tell me what those issues are?
posted by pattern juggler at 4:58 AM on January 23, 2016


I think a lot of it is cumulative - basically every companion (except Donna) gets written as a love interest, so it's season after season after season of "will they or won't they", plus lots of uncomfortable romantic triangle hostility if the companion finds a boyfriend out in their real world. They're only The Doctor's companions because "massive crush", not because having time travel adventures is actually a cool thing that people (men or women) might want to do just because it's a cool thing to do. IOW, the constant message is "women mostly do things for love." Which is a pretty simplistic take on things, and doesn't really give the companions much room to develop as characters. While OldWho was certainly not free of the sexism of the times it was made in, at least it didn't have virtually all the female companions spend a good portion of their time mothering and batting their eyes at and quasi-flirting with a non-human hundreds of years older than they were. They had a wide variety of reasons why they joined and why they left - they had agency and motivations beyond romantic attraction. NuWho can't seem to figure out why a woman would want to join The Doctor for any reason besides love. Which is a very reductive (and essentially sexist) view of women.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:34 AM on January 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


NuWho can't seem to figure out why a woman would want to join The Doctor for any reason besides love. Which is a very reductive (and essentially sexist) view of women.

That.... is an interesting take.
The RTD years, pre-Donna (BEST COMPANION) it was all "I wuv you" (including Jack), but in the post Donna era?
I don't think that's fair.
posted by Mezentian at 6:48 AM on January 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


patternjuggler, it depends on who you ask. Moffat's tenure (seasons 5-10) in particular has been polarizing because different fans take the exact same storylines as either horrifyingly regressive or wonderfully empowering and unless you very, very carefully curate your Facebook/Tumblr/etc there's not a lot of acceptance for the concept that someone might disagree with you without being either a bad feminist or too dumb to understand the show properly. (I mean, there are great parts of fandom too. But man.)

My personal take on Moffat's Doctor Who is that he writes likable, interestingly flawed female characters but overemphasizes their relationships with the men in their lives as a source of drama/conflict. He's had serious, serious problems with undermining and sidelining the agency of women, particularly in the middle of his tenure (season 6 is the nadir of New Who), but in more recent seasons seems to have listened to criticism and has been pushing back against his own and the previous showrunner's failings. The most recent season has been great for female characters with power, agency, and motivations which are only tangentially related to the Doctor, and while Clara Oswald's arc as been wobbly her exit was not only a great wrap-up for her but a big ol' fuck-you to a notoriously awful season 4 storyline. Plus Moffat has clearly been priming the audience to accept the idea that the Doctor doesn't have to be a white guy all the time -- I can only hope Chibnall follows through on that.

I think Doctor Who has a much bigger race problem than gender problem, honestly. It has been six seasons since we've had a lead character who's a person of color, and there has been one major supporting character since then who was gratuitiously mistreated by the white male lead and then fridged to make the white female lead feel bad. Also, I love Clara and am happy to claim her for Team Bisexual, but even if Moffat didn't want to give her another love interest after Danny she could have at least flirted with another woman onscreen.
posted by bettafish at 7:15 AM on January 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


> Mezentian, I would argue that a lot of the reason why Donna was Best Companion (no argument there) is because she had agency and independence that was unconstrained by the writers having to keep her and The Doctor making googly eyes at each other. Not that there haven't been good episodes and seasons post-Donna, but don't let the existence of Rory and Danny Pink and even River Song fool you - to a large extent they exist and are written as Complications for the Doctor-Companion romance.

This last season of Capaldi's might have dug the show out of the "Doctor Boyfriend" hole, but boy his first season was rough - he was an unmitigated (often sexist) asshole to Clara because apparently that was the only way Moffat & the rest of the team could figure out how to send the message that "THE DOCTOR IS NOT YOUR BOYFRIEND ANYMORE!"
posted by soundguy99 at 7:47 AM on January 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Can this mean we will finally be free of Moffat's pet River Song, the uncanny valley version of a "strong female character?" I have strong feelings about the abuse of the Mary Sue label, but if ever a character fit it...

Poor Mark Gatiss indeed.
posted by praemunire at 7:52 AM on January 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


The former made me scrunch my eyes and go, "Well, that's not a good idea." The latter broke the show.

I was being facetious but we'll agree to disagree. John Nathan Turner's later period run should not be held up as a particular good period of Who. Colin Baker's run, in particular, really was a manifestation of the conflicts in the production team but they eventually righted their ship story wise regarding companion abuse (as well as they honestly could).

End of Time, for me, was much more than "The Master scowling in a hoodie". It was a radical rewriting of the show's history, an ugly thumb in eyes of old and new fans, that episode was unrecognizable as Who... for me it destroyed the show. Say what you will about Moffat, for me he repaired the show from that disastrous turn.

Re: Toby Whitehouse - Did Being Human ever stop being about 3 whiny supernaturals? I kind of gave up about half way through the first season because characters with extraordinary powers being mopey about being extraordinary is really not my thing. Being Tragic is not character development, its lazy writing.
posted by Ashwagandha at 7:58 AM on January 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


And, pattern juggler, there's also this previous thread on MetaFilter ("Is Doctor Who Sexist?") discussing this university study & blogpost about analyzing the role of women in Doctor Who, especially comparing Moffat to his predecessor Russell T. Davies.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:59 AM on January 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


You guys are gonna love Chibnall.
posted by Artw at 8:02 AM on January 23, 2016




New Doctor Who Showrunner Chris Chibnall Challenges Writers … In 1987

To his credit Terror of the Vervoids is boring and Pip & Jane Baker were not great Who writers.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:11 AM on January 23, 2016


Ultimately, though, what is Doctor Who? My 'Doctor' died long ago at the moment Philip Hinchcliffe moved on, the show abandoning the wonderful morality plays of Genesis of the Daleks and the like for the frothy emptiness of the Graham Williams era. For a time, British SF fans could console themselves with the bleak oddities of Blake's 7, but for me Doctor Who never recovered.

Moffat's embarrassing, am-dram tendencies have always been central to his output (Press Gang onward), but in truth they have haunted DW since the late seventies and the kind of risible nonsense that was the last Christmas special is only part of an all too long tradition. It's tragic, as Capaldi is a stunningly great actor, but his presence has only underlined the show's phenomenal limitations.

My only hope is that Moffat's passing will also bring to a close the weary, bombastic reign of Murray Gold; certainly one of the more treasured aspects of the original Doctor Who was its breadth of composers (Richard Rodney Bennett, Tristram Cary, Geoffrey Burgon and so on) and revisiting this - swinging between the orchestral and the electronic - could surely bring plenty back to the plate.
posted by specialbrew at 8:14 AM on January 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


My only hope is that Moffat's passing will also bring to a close the weary, bombastic reign of Murray Gold

Agreed. There was a time when Who sounded like nothing else on television or anywhere else. Some contemporary avant garde composers would be awesome. Imagine an episode of Who where that say Cliff Martinez composed the music. I'd be up for that.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:30 AM on January 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Imagine an episode of Who where that say Cliff Martinez composed the music.

Oh, absolutely.
posted by specialbrew at 8:42 AM on January 23, 2016


My only hope is that Moffat's passing will also bring to a close the weary, bombastic reign of Murray Gold

I've come to the conclusion that Who must be attracting people to the Proms and that's why nobody will sack his sorry arse. My fantasy score-runner for Doctor Who is personally the Hartnolls, because I'm not weary of old school fans bringing their take to Who. As in.
posted by immlass at 9:32 AM on January 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Anyone else reading the comments and making a mental list of who does and does not have wrong Doctor Who opinions?

Confession: I tried to stop looking at people's names in Doctor Who threads (if I read them at all) because the strength of my DW opinions is so outsized that I'm afraid I'll think those people are wrong everywhere else, which I recognize is ridiculous.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:54 AM on January 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


MCMike, I know that feel. I try to not even have Who conversations irl unless I already know the person agrees with me. Fortunately, it took a little while but my husband had come around to pretty much all my really important (and totally correct) opinions about new Who. We still disagree about classic but I'm much more live and let live in that department. As long as you don't hate Two , we're good. (If you hate Two, you're a monster.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:07 AM on January 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Here's a more up-to-date Bechdel Test analysis that goes up through series 8. (Disclaimer: by a friend of mine, but I had zero involvement in the project.)

Unpopular opinion that might get me banished from the thread: I loved Donna's platonic dynamic with the Doctor, but I don't see it as an unalloyed feminist good. As immlass pointed out Donna was often treated as unromanceable (and implicitly unfuckable) because she was loud, shrill, in her late thirties, and whatever the BBC equivalent of Hollywood Homely is. Plus there's all the people who go, "Donna is so great because she wasn't a silly little girl who got her head turned by the Doctor, not like ~Rose and Martha~" instead of pointing out the problems with the Doctor (and the writers'!) treatment of Rose and Martha, which, ew.

Unpopular opinion that will definitely get me banished from the thread: I like Murray Gold's music on its own, I just hate the sound editing.
posted by bettafish at 10:14 AM on January 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


don't let the existence of Rory and Danny Pink and even River Song fool you - to a large extent they exist and are written as Complications for the Doctor-Companion romance.

For me, when the Doctor turned down Amy in ... Vampires of Venice, I think? that was the moment that I knew I was going to be okay with Moffat as showrunner. Because he got the grossness of the whole Doctor-companion romance problem, which is that it's not cool for the Doctor to put the make on people he's got, as Twelve has learned to say, a duty of care toward. River and Captain Jack can at least get around time and space on their own somewhat; they're not Time Lords, but as potential partners to the Doctor, they don't always come from a position of weakness. (River's story has other problems, and a lot of them.)

While I generally agree with what bettafish says about Moffat spending too much time on the romantic relationships of the companions vs their relationship with the Doctor as a source of drama and conflict, I think for me the biggest problem is that he's tried to use that to undo the damage Davies did by positing the Doctor as a romantic partner for the viewer (or viewer stand-in, or showrunner stand-in). There are things Moffat chose to ignore from the RTD era, like Torchwood, which I get probably has to do as much with licensing fees and the possibility of more shows i the Torchwood series, but Torchwood always seemed to me to be unnecessary in a universe where we have UNIT. IMO, the show should have just ignored the idea of the Doctor-companion romance after that brief "no" and gotten on with things.

I get super-bored with the hate for Moffat's "strong female characters" like Missy and River. River's story arc is too self-involved with its timey-wimey focus on the Doctor, but Alex Kingston is awesome and when River is being grown-up River, she's fantastic. Also Moffat gets points for treating a middle-aged woman as sexy rather than unfuckable, and if that's supposed to tell you something about his sexual interests like it's weird he might find women his own age attractive, well, that's not really a problem with Moffat IMO. And Missy feels like the Master to me in a way that John Simm never did (he was a real panto villain, especially toward the end) plus we now have definitive canon that Time Lords can switch gender and it makes no difference (see also the switch in the finale of S9, which was awesome).

So yeah, opinions on the Moffat tenure vary widely where women are concerned. (Female characters and female viewers alike.)
posted by immlass at 10:21 AM on January 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


If those 2 bettafiish opinions are unpopular, then I should definitely stay out of Doctor Who threads because I'm 100% on board with them both.

As for hating the 2nd Doctor, there's wrong opinions that I can respect and there's ones that make me question people's humanity. Hating the Second Doctor is in the latter. But then again, I am very, very, very defensive of Classic Doctor Who, but since I've loved it longer than anyone still in my life who isn't a blood relation, I realize that I'm not coming at it from any sort of reasonable place when talking about it critically.

As for Moffat leaving, I'm excited for it, not necessarily because he's leaving (I think the last series might be his best - his first being the only one that comes close) but because Doctor Who should always be changing in front of and behind the camera; otherwise, how are new fans going to be able to say "it was better when I started watching it."
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:29 AM on January 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


I had hoped that Moffat was taking his time abandoning his post in order to groom Jamie Mathieson for the role. Mathieson's scripts were great, he seemed to have vision, and his interviews left me thinking that he was enthuastic and deferential in a way that implied he wanted the job. Chibnall is an unfortunate alternate.

Then again, being a good scriptwriter doesn't mean that one will be a good showrunner. (Moffat is exhibit A. I think it's arguable that his greatest flaws as a showrunner are manifestations of the very same traits that made his early episodes so strong.) Chibnall might end up being a good steward and overseer even though he wrote Cyberwoman.
posted by painquale at 11:01 AM on January 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


This news makes me so happy. Moffat's terrible with female characters, and I am so beyond tired of the "OMG THE DOCTOR REALIZES THAT HE LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVES HIS COMPANION SO NOW SHE MUST DIE EXCEPT NOT REALLY BUT DOESN'T IT JUST MAKE YOU FEEL ALLLLL THE FEEEEEELS" crap I could scream. It's been so disappointing to have Capaldi wasted on this season. He'd have been a phenomenal Doctor with a better showrunner and some better writing.
posted by sarcasticah at 11:23 AM on January 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


So Doctor Who is now in the hands of the person behind the mostly embarrassing Who-spinoff, some of my least-favorite recent Who scripts, and another show mostly known for being a manipulative gut-twister about a dead kid?

That's super. Just super.

Put me down in the shoulda-been-Whithouse camp.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:43 PM on January 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Though if this means the next Doctor is Olivia Colman, I could maybe muster some enthusiasm...
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:45 PM on January 23, 2016


Here's my other oddball suggestion for who could have taken over who: Joe Cornish. Yeah, I know he's been working in film, but after Attack the Block, I'd have fight fought a glowing eyed alien gorilla to see his take on Who.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:47 PM on January 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


persona au gratin: brianrobot: have you seen that BBC comedy with Hugh Bonneville where they spoof the BBC corporate culture?

Did a quick google search and came up with W1A. Huh! I'd seen and loved Twenty Twelve, but had no idea they did a sequel starring Bonneville's character from that show. *checks Netflix availability* *confirmed* Yes.

Huck 500: we're watching Broadchurch and Jessica Jones and whatever else David Tennant is in, forever.

Speaking of Twenty Twelve, Huck 500, if you haven't checked that out yet, you should. Tennant never appears on camera but his constant voiceover narration is hilarious.
posted by brianrobot at 3:01 PM on January 23, 2016


“I2016 is spoilt with national moments including the Euros and Olympics and I want to hold something big back for 2017...”
Charlotte Moore, BBC's newly appointed tyrant
(Is it any coincidence that the show head for Doctor Who decided to leave *AFTER* she got her new job? Presumably because the show's budget was slashed, I'd bet.)

No Doctor Who this year despite promises because SPORTS?! After they promised to do a full series this year?

Well then. I want to hold something big back until next year... my support.

Good thing that it's not an international show now, or this kind of extreme, out-of-the-blue policy change would be a monumentally stupid move, reminiscent of the last time they killed Doctor Who. BBC America is going to be an expensive joke without it.
posted by markkraft at 3:40 PM on January 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


As for hating the 2nd Doctor


Wait... there are people - on the earth - who hold that opinion?
I mean, hating the stories? Sure, I can see people not ever wanting to watch The Underwater Menace again, but hating Pat's character?
posted by Mezentian at 4:02 PM on January 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Looking at all the comments here, I think that both the critics and the hopeful have the wrong idea about what is really likely to happen.

First off... Steven Moffat is an obnoxious manboy fanboy jerk who indulges in some of the worst traits of his predecessor. *However* he also comes up with some great ideas for stories. :Blink", for instance.. or just about any of the things that by now must justify an oversized room for his trophies and awards. He's a fanboy in the best and worst ways, and, like his choice of doctors, he cares very much about the show on an all-consuming, personal level, as he probably has for decades. He's also paid a lot, no doubt.

Second... Tennant only said he was stepping down after it was announced that RTD was stepping down. In other words, what happened, most likely, was an exec saying "The show lacks buzz and focus -- and ratings -- ever since Rose left, and we don't like the way things are looking with an older companion. We need you to kill them off and make the show more for young people again."

This was almost certainly followed by a lot of heated arguments as to classic Doctor Who, and a bunch of great older actors who played the part, with stories that were serious and dark at times... and possibly with RTD telling them to shove it, because he could make more $$ elsewhere. Tennant chose to do the same.

So, they got Moffat to do the job, but Moffat, old school Who fan that he is, clearly wanted an odd-looking, middle-aged actor, who could presumably act. What he settled for -- it doesn't seem to have just been his decision -- was a young, talented, comparatively inexpensive one, and, apparently, a directive to write for a younger audience.

And so followed a whole lot of comic relief, fast-paced, deus-ex-machina timey-wimeyness... with lots of kids.

Thirdly... it appears that it was only with Capaldi that Moffat has been able to take the show in the direction he wanted. As of a few months ago, there was no indication that Steven and Peter Capaldi were going anywhere. In fact, Moffat confirmed a full series of twelve episodes, and a Christmas special. He also talked about bringing on some seriously jawdropping new writing talent, in addition to the top-notch directors he's hired. Clearly, his power had grown over his tenure and he had big budgets and more independence to work with... like a real internationally-broadcast show.

Peter Capaldi was Moffat's choice of doctor, and by all indications, Moffat has been doing things to mold Capaldi into the type of Doctor Who he wanted. Older, more adult, more daring and alien.

Take a look at what Moffat has done this season, for instance. He got rid of the inherited companion -- a school teacher. (i.e. Something to bring in young actors and young viewers.) He wrapped up River Song, he brought back the Timelords... and Capaldi's Doctor feels a long, long way from the comic relief of the Paternoster Gang / Strax. And now we've seen some really dark episodes.

Finally, the Doctor has what feels like a license to do something different. Something new and alien and more seriously sci-fi, written by serious sci-fi/fantasy writers, and directed by serious directors.

...but in the background, a Conservative government that wants to axe the BBC's budget.

And so, last week, heads rolled. The controller for BBC2 was axed, while BBC3 will become an online-only channel next month.

So, rather than have a stable of talented people running different parts of the BBC, trying to get $$ for their projects, we now get one person -- with a somewhat dour documentarian background -- with a tightening budget and major control over the creative, editorial and strategic" elements of your favorite shows, that needs to figure out who to axe and how.

Well, it's a no-brainer to look at a spreadsheet and say "Simply Come Dancing" costs less to produce and gets better ratings in the UK than Doctor Who...

And so, she no doubt had a "talk" with Moffat, and now he's leaving. Which is to say, as he previously implied, "I am under contract for doing another 12 episodes, and a Christmas special." She's canceling his contract, after fulfilling the terms. Presumably, Capaldi has a similar contract for at least one more year of Doctor Who.

My guess? He's toast... and she saves money on the back of Doctor Who fans worldwide. And the next Doctor Who is young, shiny, inexpensive, and geared more towards children again, with someone less known for his creative demands and large paycheck running things, pounding stones in the same old goddamn quarry.
posted by markkraft at 6:46 PM on January 23, 2016 [15 favorites]


I have no real opinion on the new guy but CHRIST, I'M SO FUCKING GLAD MOFFAT'S LEAVING. I've found the last couple of seasons completely unwatchable.
posted by Aquifer at 8:26 PM on January 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


pounding stones in the same old goddamn quarry

Good.
I miss the old quarry.
I don't think we've had a decent one since 'The Doctor's Daughter'.
posted by Mezentian at 9:45 PM on January 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Apparently, the BBC has a huge budget deficit, and as early as November, they laid out plans on how they would close it. (Thanks, Conservative Party austerity!) What wasn't clear, however, is where the money would come from. Well, now we know.

Doctor Who costs about $1.4M per episode to produce. By cutting 13 episodes, the BBC trims $18M off of their $228M deficit. As the article says, " £12 million ($18.3 million) [in cuts] will come from the BBC’s TV budget. Drama will be protected, but a range of other genres will face cuts. This will mean reductions to factual, comedy and entertainment programming. Around £5 million ($7.6 million) will be cut from the news division budget."

In other words, the BBC has decided that Doctor Who will take pretty much *ALL* of the cuts being made to its TV programming. Other shows are off-limits, except the BBC's excellent news service. Never mind the huge value that Doctor Who has for the BBC overseas, as their flagship show. In this sense, it makes paying extra to support overseas sources of Doctor Who, such as BBC America, a form of bait-and-switch.
posted by markkraft at 11:43 PM on January 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


So, uh, if you're hoping Chibnall replacing Moffat means the sexism will let up a bit, maybe check out this pic of Chibnall's Cyberwoman from Torchwood.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:41 AM on January 24, 2016


Far be it from me to defend Cyberwoman, but reading about its conception may help.

1. Rusty's idea.
2. "The producers noted there were a history of "sexy, pneumatic, hydraulic women" in science fiction, and wanted to "tap into that."[1] To make the cyberwoman costume, the props department wanted to make it as "sexy" as they can"

And the producers were Russell T Davies, Julie Gardner and Jane Tranter.


And, here's the amazing thing: it rated well ("the highest viewing on the channel the week it was broadcast") and, "received generally mixed reactions from critics, though the producers regard the episode as one of their favourites in the series".

"Despite the mixed reviews however, the series producers and BBC controller of fiction Jane Tranter regard the episode as one of their favourites from the first series"

Say what you will about Cyberwoman and 'sexism', you can't lay it all at the feet of Chibbers.
posted by Mezentian at 1:47 AM on January 24, 2016


Chibnall is a definite change from Moffatt in two very clear although linked ways - and although I've found his writing unimpressive it wasn't All About The Doctor. (Moffatt's low point? A Good Man Goes To War - in which episode a woman gets to whsee her newborn daughter destroyed in front of her eyes and isn't even a focal character at the time).

The Moffatt/Bedchel issue is that Moffatt episodes are so much more Doctor-centric than under RTD that there's little room for third party conversation. If Tolstoy broke all stories down into "A stranger comes to town" and "Someone is going on a journey" then Moffatt was almost always writing "The Doctor is going on a journey" whereas e.g. Gridlock was very much a stranger comes to town.

Other than the Paternoster Gang I recall only one recurring character in the entire Matt Smith run - Brian Williams who was a major supporting character in Dinosaurs on a Spaceship and The Power of Three, both episodes written by ... Chris Chibnall. (And anyone who isn't aware of P.S., also Chibnall's work, should see it).

So although I'm not impressed by Chibnall as a writer I think he could add back a lot of what Moffatt's been missing.
posted by Francis at 5:40 AM on January 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Moffat and Davies did succeed in one thing. They managed to change the police box into a porta potty. I doubt new blood will make any difference. I would not be surprised to see the BBC transform into something like the Discovery or History channels. Who fits right in with that.
posted by juiceCake at 7:14 AM on January 24, 2016


Far too late, and Broadchurch? We've already had Doctor Who creators who can't stick the landing. Broadchurch was a large-scale that. He'll have to really truly shine to win me back.
posted by Legomancer at 7:28 AM on January 24, 2016


Since Gallifrey is back maybe we can start seeing some of the other mischievous Time Lords. How about the Monk (AKA the Time Meddler)? Here's my vote for the actor to portray him: Matt Berry.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:54 AM on January 24, 2016


Odd they didn't mention in the latest news the Patrick Ness written spin-off, Grange Hill with Daleks, Class. that they announced last year. I mean I presume it's still going ahead
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:09 AM on January 24, 2016


"In other words, the BBC has decided that Doctor Who will take pretty much *ALL* of the cuts being made to its TV programming."

I'm assuming the logic behind this is something like, "Eh, most of the Doctor Who fans are diehard, they'll just have to live with it and go buy more merch in the meantime." It's not going to affect the show's popularity to make people miss it for awhile. Or something.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:04 AM on January 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Due to weird BBC Doctor Who actually making them money probably counts against it, rather than for it. We'll probably see arguments for them selling it off to Sky before long.
posted by Artw at 11:10 AM on January 24, 2016


Odd they didn't mention in the latest news the Patrick Ness written spin-off, Grange Hill with Daleks, Class.

I'm pretty sure this was all planned a long time ago and Class was commissioned to keep the production team in work during the long wait between Season 9 and 10 shooting.
posted by brilliantmistake at 1:22 PM on January 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm assuming the logic behind this is something like, "Eh, most of the Doctor Who fans are diehard, they'll just have to live with it and go buy more merch in the meantime." It's not going to affect the show's popularity to make people miss it for awhile. Or something.

As the comments about the current political position of the BBC above suggest, I think it is likely to be much more complex and much less logical than that. Who occupies a very peculiar position at the moment, in that it has a degree of nostalgic prestige, but is also seen as frivolous, the sort of thing that the BBC "shouldn't be doing". Of course, our current government actually think that the BBC should cease to exist entirely, but the presence of a glossy, big budget entertainment series, popular in the US and financial viable in its own right is actually a potential liability in the ongoing fight for survival.

I know this is bullshit, you know this is bullshit, but the majority of our media and our politicians hate the BBC and are projecting a powerful reality distortion field around it in order to argue for its destruction.

Bad times.
posted by howfar at 1:43 PM on January 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


(Moffatt's low point? A Good Man Goes To War - in which episode a woman gets to see her newborn daughter destroyed in front of her eyes and isn't even a focal character at the time).

That's the last episode I watched.. I read the avclub reviews for the next few episodes, but they seemed far afield from the elements that have endeared me to the show for decades.
posted by Radiophonic Oddity at 6:05 AM on January 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


unless you very, very carefully curate your Facebook/Tumblr/etc there's not a lot of acceptance for the concept that someone might disagree with you without being either a bad feminist or too dumb to understand the show properly.

Thinking a lot about this after a pretty gross post that's going around tumblr about how Moffat writes Strong Female Characters because that's what he wants to fuck like it's disgusting that he might find strong middle-aged women (who are his age peers, after all) a turn-on. As a middle-aged woman, I'm kind of boggled in a bad way that women like me being a power fantasy is so disempowering and upsetting to other female fans.
posted by immlass at 8:31 AM on January 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Anyone planning to watch any Dr. Who on Netflix better hurry -- all the episodes will be gone on Feb 1.
posted by Clustercuss at 11:42 AM on January 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


Bit of a shocker that - it's a streaming perennial.
posted by Artw at 4:43 PM on January 26, 2016


I think they went through this last year as well. The BBC wants Netflix to pay up more than Netflix is willing to. IIRC Who and the other BBC shows went offline for a while last year while they worked it out. Since I get most of my Classic Who from their DVD side (Info Text ftw!), it mostly went by without notice on my end.
posted by immlass at 4:50 PM on January 26, 2016


I'm assuming Classic Who will remain a shitshow on streaming even if it does come back.
posted by Artw at 4:52 PM on January 26, 2016


Classic Who's also leaving. Looks like Hulu gets to keep it all, although the article seems to be guessing about that.
posted by brianrobot at 4:57 PM on January 26, 2016


(Hulu's got its gaps but it's still surprisingly good for classic Who, including things like the rediscovered Troughton stories and the version of The Chase with the Beatles scene intact.)
posted by brianrobot at 5:05 PM on January 26, 2016




Looks like Who will not be on Hulu either: Doctor Who' Also Leaving Hulu, Won't Stream Anywhere In US As Of Next Month. TL;DR the BBC appears to be planning its own streaming service for the US market and is pulling Who from everything to get ready for that.
posted by immlass at 8:50 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Oh boy are they a weird mix being set up well for that technically and in terms of content and being likely to be awful at that in terms of institutional culture and weird mandates and limitations.

But basically if I could get BBC over here I would fork over for it in a heartbeat.
posted by Artw at 10:26 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


BBC America is all right except for the 10 hours a day of Top Gear.
posted by tobascodagama at 10:28 AM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]


And the occasional marathon of ST:TNG.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:32 AM on January 29, 2016


The ST:TNG marathons are absolutely a selling point for BBC America.
posted by tobascodagama at 10:54 AM on January 29, 2016


The ST:TNG marathons are absolutely a selling point for BBC America.

REALLY? REALLY? No. Because it is the god-damned BBC, and Star Trek has fuck all to do with the BBC today. Oh, sure, Patrick Stewart is a great British actor, but that show is thirty years old and you can’t tell me that there isn’t more recent, quality British programming or American programming with British actors out there. I suspect that they do ST:TNG marathons because it’s cheap and digestible product that sells, like Nick At Night rerunning classic TV as if we’re all living in the post-war period forever, but it’s the flipping BBC, and I’m not sure where repeated doses of ancient American TV fits in with any mission beyond “No Dead Air Ever”. Why not Luther marathons? You have the show? Why not Bake Off? Were your negotiations with PBS so terrible you can’t also run it on your own channel? Why not Would I Lie To You?, an almost completely generic panel game that at least 95% of the time doesn’t depend on knowing anything about England beyond the horrible truth about the Welsh? ARGH.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:18 AM on January 29, 2016 [3 favorites]


But basically if I could get BBC over here I would fork over for it in a heartbeat.

Last year, Auntie Beeb announced it would be launching its own streaming service in the US, "Best of British", competing against Netflix and Hulu.

Since the news broke that Doctor Who would leave those sites at the end of the month, a BBC spokesperson has told one site, "We hope to announce a new digital partner for Doctor Who shortly", elaborating that "there will be a wide range of programs of various genres and eras, as you would expect from a company with a range of content as deep and wide as [BBC] Worldwide's, including content that has never been seen before and fan favorites."

Meanwhile, Fleet Street (or whatever the cyberspace equivalent is) has been grinding up the chaff at the rumour mill to the effect that Capaldi will leave after next series in order to let Chibnall choose his own Doctor, and the bookies have started laying odds, with Ben Whishaw as their favourite at 5/1.
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:15 PM on January 29, 2016


BBCA's idea of the best of the BBC may be radically different than my idea of the best of it.
posted by Artw at 1:21 PM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]


I mean, I'd like it if BBC America showed actual British shows as well, but STTNG is still miles better than 90% of everything else on TV at any given time. And it's also not Top Gear.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:35 PM on January 29, 2016


BBC America is far from the first network to air programming that falls outside its initial branding. And given what's been going on with Top Gear, I think they may have a better thing going with ST:TNG.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:50 PM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]


If the Beeb's streaming service for the US somehow includes them using their muscle to suck up shows from iTV and Channel 4 and the like, they might actually have something.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:03 PM on January 29, 2016


"... and the bookies have started laying odds, with Ben Whishaw as their favourite at 5/1."
As much as I love Freddie from The Hour, that's got to be (a) the laziest possible suggestion ever and (b) the dumbest choice he could possibly make.
posted by Pinback at 12:51 AM on January 31, 2016


TL;DR the BBC appears to be planning its own streaming service for the US market and is pulling Who from everything to get ready for that.

Y'all could buy it all on DVD.
Or video tape.
Or even this new fangled Blu-Ray thing.

Or is physical media now too old school?
posted by Mezentian at 5:36 AM on February 1, 2016


Pretty much, yes.
posted by Artw at 7:03 AM on February 1, 2016 [2 favorites]


Can you buy it on video tape?
posted by Going To Maine at 9:34 AM on February 1, 2016


Car boot sales, second hand stores.

I have a box myself, albeit recorded off the TV.
My copy of Doctor Who: The Movie was recorded off air in... 1996? Still as pristine as the day I recorded it.
posted by Mezentian at 12:08 AM on February 6, 2016


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