Crisis on Infinite Networks
February 3, 2016 12:59 PM   Subscribe

After months of fan speculation and adorable photoshoots, it's been officially confirmed that CBS' Supergirl TV series will cross over with the CW's The Flash.

This expands the tally of DC's Arrowverse shared multiverse to five series across three networks and two media: CW's Arrow, The Flash, and new team spinoff Legends of Tomorrow; CW Seed animated series Vixenrenewed for a second miniseries and soon to cross into live action on Arrow; CBS series Supergirl; and cancelled NBC series Constantine.

Examining the colorfully complicated Arrowverse for Entertainment Weekly, Darren Franich writes "In praise of Legends of Tomorrow and difficult comics" (spoilers for the first two episodes of LoT):
There's a strain of comic book storytelling that strives toward realism, that struggles mightily to cut through or even delete these characters’ long history. [...] But that has a strange effect: By removing the confusing continuity, it also restarts the characters from their own beginning, leaving you in the strange position of knowing what’s going to happen to them before they do.
posted by nicebookrack (101 comments total) 6 users marked this as a favorite
 
Tommy Westphall is gonna be stoked.
posted by Etrigan at 1:05 PM on February 3, 2016 [12 favorites]


I thought they had explicitly said at the beginning of the season that they would NOT cross-over. Also, in at least one episode they've made mention to there only being ONE superhero in the world (You-Know-Who) prior to Kara taking on the red cape.
posted by briank at 1:09 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


I previously said that the DC movie universe should be chucked and the TV universe used for all future movies. This just makes me believe that more.

briank, I'm thinking Earth 3 (or 616 or whatever). But that's just me.
posted by Hactar at 1:11 PM on February 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


briank:
1. They lied! Or changed their minds!

2. The Flash's ongoing season 2 has focused largely on the existence of multiple parallel universes, with characters traveling back and forth between them. There's only one non-Supergirl hero in Kara's universe, but Barry Allen is about to stumble out of his universe into hers.
posted by nicebookrack at 1:14 PM on February 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Wait...what?
posted by Kitteh at 1:21 PM on February 3, 2016


Could we please be REALLY CAREFUL about invoking Crisis on Infinite Earths when talking about Supergirl and the Flash?

(yes, I know, wrong Flash, but still)
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 1:22 PM on February 3, 2016 [21 favorites]


So looking forward to this. (And if someone could arrange for Constantine to do a guest spot on my new guilty pleasure show, Fox's Lucifer, that would be just dandy.)
posted by oh yeah! at 1:23 PM on February 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


(yes, I know, wrong Flash, but still)

No, Barry's the right Flash for Crisis.
posted by The Man from Lardfork at 1:24 PM on February 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


Does this mean I should be watching Supergirl? I mean I could, but really there are only so many shows I can devote time to.
posted by Kitteh at 1:25 PM on February 3, 2016


Yesssssssssssss
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:25 PM on February 3, 2016


I just hope that this leads to the Gotham-Arrow crossover I've been waiting for.
posted by bonehead at 1:27 PM on February 3, 2016


Though come to think of it, Lucifer-Gotham would probably work better.
posted by bonehead at 1:28 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Does this mean I should be watching Supergirl?

Everything means you should be watching Supergirl, if only zarq's daughter's awesome reaction to it.
posted by Etrigan at 1:29 PM on February 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


It's mostly finding more time to carve out of an already stuffed schedule for more shows more than anything else. I can't devote time on weeknights except for Friday to catch up because I have work, school, and volunteer stuff. Maybe I'll table Supergirl until summer when there's no new content on.
posted by Kitteh at 1:32 PM on February 3, 2016


(And if someone could arrange for Constantine to do a guest spot on my new guilty pleasure show, Fox's Lucifer, that would be just dandy.)

I would burst into flames of sheer pop-culture joy if this happened. The idea of building a stealth Vertigoverse within the DCverse on TV makes me so happy. Just imagine the possibilities ...
posted by sobell at 1:43 PM on February 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


If nothing else, Supergirl is worth watching for Melissa Benoist as Supergirl/Kara; just like Grant Gustin as Flash/Barry, she is a purified adorable fluffy golden retriever puppy in human form. Both of them onscreen together may explode the universe in an shower of optimistic glitter and rainbows that could overpower any Care Bear Stare.
posted by nicebookrack at 1:45 PM on February 3, 2016 [20 favorites]


I'm way more excited about this then I should be.
posted by Jalliah at 1:47 PM on February 3, 2016


It's mostly finding more time to carve out of an already stuffed schedule for more shows more than anything else. I can't devote time on weeknights except for Friday to catch up because I have work, school, and volunteer stuff. Maybe I'll table Supergirl until summer when there's no new content on.

I feel like such a dweeb devoting so much mental energy to time for TV shows, but I'm behind on everything!
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 1:50 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


wait Lucifer is also from DC Comics?? THERE'S TOO MANY THINGS!

I've been a fan of Megalyn Echikunwoke since The 4400! I didn't know she did the voice of Vixen (I was in the camp of "I don't need another to watch so I'm not gonna read anything about it" in regards to that show) and now I'm super excited it's going to be live-action because it's Megalyn! (Yes, I highly enjoyed her stint in House of Lies though I wish her character was written better and able to stay on the show).

Oh right, Supergirl. I guess I'll start watching that now, but CBS-online is soooooo loathsome. Illegal streams it is!
posted by numaner at 1:56 PM on February 3, 2016


The great thing about being pessimistic about the crossovers you really want is that when they finally happen, you're not just delighted, but surprised and delighted. (Also on the "too many shows" front, is Lucifer actually worth watching? It looked good in previews but there are enough genre shows for me to love that I'm getting picky.)
posted by immlass at 1:57 PM on February 3, 2016


I feel like such a dweeb devoting so much mental energy to time for TV shows, but I'm behind on everything!

I am always one of the last posters to FanFare for any of my shows because I don't get around to catching up until Friday or Saturday. The work week is a no go for me.
posted by Kitteh at 1:57 PM on February 3, 2016


Also on the "too many shows" front, is Lucifer actually worth watching?

No. I watched the pilot, realized it was pretty much only the comic in name, and dropped it like a hot potato. If they had marketed it or created it as the supernatural police procedural it obviously is without the ties to the comic, I might have been more charitable.
posted by Kitteh at 1:59 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Marvel owns movies. DC owns television. Works for me.
posted by Sternmeyer at 2:00 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Lucifer is great fun if you enjoy oddball police procedurals and if you completely ignore any implied connections to the comicbook series, with which the TV series Lucifer shares nothing but its name. If you go into TV Lucifer expecting a faithful adaptation of the critically-acclaimed Vertigo comic written by Mike Carey, you'll only make yourself cry.
posted by nicebookrack at 2:03 PM on February 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


To paraphrase a tumblr post that was going around when "Jupiter Ascending" came out, Lucifer is trash but it's my kind of trash. It is a terrible show and I adore it for no good reason. Your mileage may vary.
posted by oh yeah! at 2:06 PM on February 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


From the marketing I saw I didn't even realize Lucifer came from any comics. I supposed I don't really pay attention when they flash "inspired by so and so" during those promos, but it wasn't obvious with any scenes shown.
posted by numaner at 2:08 PM on February 3, 2016


In addition to the classic Lucifer comic written by Carey, there's a new ongoing Lucifer comic out now, written by outstanding YA urban fantasy novelist Holly Black.

Both great Lucifer series with fantastic writers! Both not resembling the TV Lucifer in any way!

oh yeah!, I agree, TV Lucifer is definitely my kind of trash. Who knew I would empathize with the Devil over our mutual stiff horror at the prospect of social interaction with small excited children running loose?
posted by nicebookrack at 2:25 PM on February 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Lucifer was made into a police procedural. I don't even...
posted by Justinian at 2:27 PM on February 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Marvel owns movies. DC owns television. Works for me.

I can only assume this means you haven't watched Jessica Jones or Daredevil, and now I am jealous that you get to watch them fresh for the first time.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 2:47 PM on February 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


DC tends to botch it when it comes to the big screen. But on the small screen?

There was the Bruce Timm Batman animated world which gave us a sympathetic Clayface, a human Mr. Freeze, and Harley Quinn, before expanding to Superman and the Justice League with Fry as Booster Gold's buddy Skeets.

This new live-action TV universe they're building, I'm already impressed. It's lightyears ahead of Smalltown.
posted by qcubed at 2:50 PM on February 3, 2016


Marvel owns movies. DC owns animation. Live-action TV is neutral ground.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 2:50 PM on February 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


I keep waiting for The Vampire Diaries to go out in a blaze of glory at the hands of the brothers from Supernatural.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 2:52 PM on February 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


Oooh, Damon going head to head with Dean. YES PLEASE.
posted by Kitteh at 2:53 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


I mean, I assume they make out for a bit. That's just a given.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 2:54 PM on February 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


If they didn't make out, it would not be worth it.
posted by Kitteh at 2:55 PM on February 3, 2016


I didn't know about the Holly Black series, so thanks for that. But I saw enough of the preview to expect it not to be Vertigo. It's trash, but is it GOOD trash? This is the real question.
posted by immlass at 2:59 PM on February 3, 2016


Ok, I just saw Vixen, I'll take that to Fanfare!
posted by numaner at 3:10 PM on February 3, 2016


Lucifer is good stupid fun if, like me, you had no idea it was a comic book and don't care enough to give it a read.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:29 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Does this mean I should be watching Supergirl?

Catch up quick because if the final scene from this past week is any indication, next week Supergirl fights a cabbage!

(Yes, I know...)
posted by GamblingBlues at 4:06 PM on February 3, 2016


a cabbage created by ALAN MOORE
posted by nicebookrack at 4:19 PM on February 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


the TV series Lucifer shares nothing but its name

He's played the piano for at least 30 seconds. Though it was a Police song, so points off there.
posted by bonehead at 4:29 PM on February 3, 2016


The Flash/Supergirl crossover episode is named "Worlds Finest"!‼ SOMEONE HOLD ME.
posted by nicebookrack at 4:58 PM on February 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


How many current DC universes are there now, counting the current TV universes and the movie universe? I think we need a chart.

briank: The Flash and Supergirl are pretty much definitely going to be set in different universes with the Flash travelling between them - the Flash comic book, via Flash of Two Earths, is the original reason for DC's long history of alternate-universe shenanigans.
posted by BiggerJ at 5:21 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Worlds Finest

asdfthfvgstfffasr HELL YES
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:23 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think we need a chart.

Here you go.
posted by Sangermaine at 6:06 PM on February 3, 2016


This is fantastic. Just fantastic. Haven't checked out Supergirl yet but I adore the Flash. I love that it runs right at the multiverse in such a way that I don't regard it as an adaptation of the comics story but part of the comics story. I also love that Barry Allen is serving almost the exact same purpose he did in the comics: the first character in a new generation of heroes that spreads throughout an entire narrative medium, hot on his lightning-booted heels.

(yes, I know Arrow came first but that show sux and TV didn't explode with all these DC characters until the Flash proved a hit)
posted by EatTheWeak at 6:39 PM on February 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


When you tweak the contrast on Grant Gustin's script photo, you can see the name Siobhan Smythe—Banshee!

Dear actors, STOP posting photos of your secret scripts on social media!
posted by nicebookrack at 6:48 PM on February 3, 2016


Arrow came first but that show sux

If you're bringing crack, share with the whole class.

Also, seriously, the story structure stuff they pull off with the A+B+flashback plots on episode theme and also on plot arc theme have been good to (especially in S2) fantastic.
posted by immlass at 7:23 PM on February 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


IF they waste the potential of all these singers and dancers the two shows have by not at least doing a musical number if not a full out musical episode I will be SORE WROTH.
posted by taterpie at 7:25 PM on February 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


People who haven't watched Supergirl, here's a fight scene from episode 6 that shows the series at some of its best/worst. On the one hand, terrible terrible costuming on a ridiculous evil robot; on the other hand, Melissa Benoist selling the HELL out of Kara focused on her grief and rage over the loss of her planet so she can finally get her heat vision to work.

Seriously, the robot is so bad, but every time I watch Kara in this scene I tear up.
posted by nicebookrack at 7:25 PM on February 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Also, it's Red Tornado. If he wasn't terrible it could hardly be called a faithful adaptation.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:46 PM on February 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


Ugh, by the way, no. Lucifer is not good - and I have no attachment to the source material.

The pilot was tolerable if a bit smug, but the second episode made it clear that it's just Castle armed with the Urban Dictionary... a crappy power fantasy where Lucifer's a sassy vulgarian talking about the perks of an Eiffel Tower; and who has a big fat penis that women just cannot resist.

Hard pass.
posted by taterpie at 7:49 PM on February 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Also, seriously, the story structure stuff they pull off with the A+B+flashback plots on episode theme and also on plot arc theme have been good to (especially in S2) fantastic.

I do want to like it - Green Arrow is one of my all time faves. And i keep hearing smart folks recommend it! But I checked out hard in s1ep3 when Oliver Freaking Queen of all people said he would like to "gentrify the neighborhood" with his Glades nightclub. He ain't the Green Arrow for me.
posted by EatTheWeak at 8:39 PM on February 3, 2016


Also, it's Red Tornado. If he wasn't terrible it could hardly be called a faithful adaptation.

Oh Red Tornado! Come here honey, I'll protect you from the bad man...
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:45 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oliver Freaking Queen of all people said he would like to "gentrify the neighborhood"

Yeah, he's not the Green Arrow-Green Lantern team Green Arrow. He's more of a Longbow Hunters/Batman-lite kind of character.
posted by immlass at 8:56 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Most of the people the Arrow killed in his first season were evil rich industrialists and their minions, so maybe that counts as anti-capitalist…?

And please give respect where respect's due: Arrow took the boxing glove arrow and made it WORK!
posted by nicebookrack at 9:04 PM on February 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Nope. World's Finest =1 Superman family character and 1 Batclan member (preferably the originals, but I'll grudgingly accept extended family members). No speedsters in that equation. But other than the title, I am happy to see this come about, even if I find a big difference in quality and how watchable the two shows are.
posted by sardonyx at 9:14 PM on February 3, 2016


This is gonna be super adorkable.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:10 PM on February 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Arrow took the boxing glove arrow and made it WORK!

Oh yeah? Okay, that's worth checking out.
posted by EatTheWeak at 10:11 PM on February 3, 2016


Oh, this is gonna be fun. I do think of the Flash and Supergirl series as being quite similar in tone, and it's such a relief after so much "grittiness" in superhero stuff. The clear homages in both series to some stuff I am very fond of (like the visual homage to the Flash of Two Worlds cover a while back) just makes me squee. And Gustin and Benoist are too adorable. The tv screen might explode in rainbows. I am all for this.
posted by litlnemo at 10:18 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Bope. World's Finest =1 Superman family character and 1 Batclan member

Note that the title isn't "World's Finest," it's "Worlds Finest," as in multiple worlds. Welcome to Earth-Multiverse, baby!

The clear homages in both series to some stuff I am very fond of (like the visual homage to the Flash of Two Worlds cover a while back)

For anyone who didn't catch that scene, it is precious.
posted by nicebookrack at 11:13 PM on February 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


All this, and Wesley Dodd: Sandman, Hourman, Ma Hunkel and Sgt Rock?

Man, what a time to be alive.

Nthing the need for a musical episode. And I hate musicals.
posted by Mezentian at 4:12 AM on February 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


Holy shit, you weren't kidding about Ma Hunkel.

Shut up and take all my money, Arrowverse, and I'll throw in my soul as a freebie for your batcrap crazy.
posted by nicebookrack at 5:11 AM on February 4, 2016


Holy shit, you weren't kidding about Ma Hunkel.

Would I lie about something so serious?

batcrap crazy.

Wait... there's an X-Files crossover now?
posted by Mezentian at 5:26 AM on February 4, 2016


IF they waste the potential of all these singers and dancers the two shows have by not at least doing a musical number if not a full out musical episode I will be SORE WROTH.

Does this whet your appetite?
posted by zombieflanders at 6:33 AM on February 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


Marvel owns movies. DC owns animation. Live-action TV is neutral ground.

Seriously. If y'all aren't watching the DC animated movies, you should. The animation is good. The stories are excellent and often quite creative. The voice actors are usually fantastic.
posted by zarq at 7:22 AM on February 4, 2016


Everything means you should be watching Supergirl, if only zarq's daughter's awesome reaction to it.

Ha! She *loves* the show. But much of it is too scary for her. She made me shut off the recent White Martian episode. So we wind up fast-forwarding some scenes.
posted by zarq at 7:24 AM on February 4, 2016


zarq: awww, that's so cute! If she's interested, DC started a new digital-only Adventures of Supergirl comic based on the TV show. I've no idea if it's any good or what the violence level is like, though it's rated 12+.
posted by nicebookrack at 7:55 AM on February 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


I've also heard really great things about Supergirl: Cosmic Adventures in the 8th Grade.
posted by bettafish at 8:22 AM on February 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


World's Finest =1 Superman family character and 1 Batclan member

For most of its run World's Finest was a Superman/Batman cross-over vehicle, but for a chunk of the 70s it was the generic Superman/other hero team-up book. As it evolved into the 80s, it kept the Superman/Batman theme, but also started adding other guest characters too.

So it's not definitionally just superfamily/batclan. At least in my view.

But also this totally reinforces my view that TV DC is pre-crisis, 1970s, early 80s DC, not the new 52 or whatever they're peddling now. So yeah, Flash, Supergirl, let's be careful out there.
posted by bonehead at 8:49 AM on February 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


nicebookrack and bettafish, thanks for the recommendations! I'll check them out!
posted by zarq at 8:53 AM on February 4, 2016


But also this totally reinforces my view that TV DC is pre-crisis, 1970s, early 80s DC...

SPOT ON. And in this interpretation, the movies are post-Crisis grim-n-gritty 90s comics.
posted by The Man from Lardfork at 8:57 AM on February 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


I love The Flash. The show is amazing, the casting is spot-on, and the SFX make me believe that a man can run fast.

I love Supergirl. I'm a bit behind, with a few episodes on the DVR still waiting to be consumed, but I will get to them, because <3

I have tried to watch Arrow. I *want* to love the show. Green Arrow is my favorite DC hero, and I like to pretend I'm an archer sometimes. But the show loses me every time Ollie opens up that case and pulls out his bow ALREADY STRUNG.
posted by hanov3r at 9:02 AM on February 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


Obviously the bow is already strung because all the arrows shot on Arrow are digitally created (to avoid liability) and CGI arrows require pre-stringing.
posted by nicebookrack at 9:22 AM on February 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


If y'all aren't watching the DC animated movies, you should. The animation is good.

Meanwhile, the current Marvel house animation style is horrible. All of their shows look like they were edited by a twelve-year-old who just drank several cans of Red Bull and taught himself how to use Final Cut.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 9:31 AM on February 4, 2016


bonehead
You've got me on a short (two-year) technicality. Despite that, for me the main Superman team-up book was DCCP (DC Comics Presents--although why they doubled the C is anybody's guess). And given the first pairing, it's this that naturally comes to mind when I think of Kryptonians and speedsters.
posted by sardonyx at 9:45 AM on February 4, 2016


Sadly, I never got to read the conclusion to that story. The joys of sporadic buying and drugstore spinner racks.
posted by sardonyx at 9:52 AM on February 4, 2016


(DC Comics Presents--although why they doubled the C is anybody's guess)

Despite the name coming from Detective Comics, "DC" isn't an acronym anymore, and the name of the company is "DC Comics".
posted by Etrigan at 9:59 AM on February 4, 2016


Yeah, you're right. It's funny, it's one of those things I never thought about (it was always just DCCP to me) until I started typing it here and then suddenly all I could think was "Detective Comics Comics Presents" which then made me question my sanity and recollection for a bit. But I'm fine now.
posted by sardonyx at 10:04 AM on February 4, 2016


So is Legends of Tomorrow gonna have Kamandi in it? Because, um... a friend wants to know.
posted by Ashwagandha at 2:19 PM on February 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


No Kamandi mentioned yet, but the Legends (is that what they're calling themselves? so tacky!) will be gallivanting around the future at least part of the time, so who knows? I'm still waiting for the giant killer robot promised by the trailer.
posted by nicebookrack at 2:49 PM on February 4, 2016


Kamandi on TV would be amazing. If Ma Hunkel's already in the pipeline then this is Rocket Raccoon all over again: everything is on the table.
posted by EatTheWeak at 3:01 PM on February 4, 2016


(Also on the "too many shows" front, is Lucifer actually worth watching? It looked good in previews but there are enough genre shows for me to love that I'm getting picky.)

So far, no. It's bad but not in a silly fun way, sadly. Maybe that will change. They should definitely have Constantine show up, though. In fact if they merged the two shows into one, it might work out after all.

Don’t Watch the TV Show Lucifer. Read This Much Better Comic Book Instead.
posted by homunculus at 4:05 PM on February 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm thrilled/disconcerted/somewhat disturbed that we're at the point where not only are there so many genre shows that one can afford to be picky, but superhero live action genre shows, specifically. I have other things I need time to watch!

Meanwhile, the current Marvel house animation style is horrible. All of their shows look like they were edited by a twelve-year-old who just drank several cans of Red Bull and taught himself how to use Final Cut.

I appreciate what Ultimate Spider-Man's doing in terms of being to all intents and purposes a Marvel Team-Up show which puts Luke Cage, White Tiger, Nova and Nick Fury as part of the main cast, but it's true it's not a show for us grown-ups in the periphery demographic. (In fairness, anything would be mediocre after Spectacular Spider-Man, which despite being cancelled early because of rights weirdness is the one Marvel toon I'd put up there with the DCAU/Young Justice/Brave and the Bold. The opera fight scene alone!)
posted by bettafish at 5:39 PM on February 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


Ah, Young Justice. A show about teen sidekicks, written for 30 year olds. It was too beautiful to last any longer than it did.
posted by EatTheWeak at 6:16 PM on February 4, 2016


YJ and Spectacular Spider-Man have the same showrunner, and both got cancelled early. Poor Greg Weisman must be jinxed.
posted by bettafish at 7:06 PM on February 4, 2016


nicebookrack: Obviously the bow is already strung because all the arrows shot on Arrow are digitally created (to avoid liability) and CGI arrows require pre-stringing.

"Strung", in this parlance, indicates that the bow is bent and the bowstring has been properly affixed at both ends of the bow. Leaving a wooden bow strung and under stress can cause the wood to lose some elasticity, making it weaker. A weakened bow doesn't fire arrows as far or as fast, and is more prone to breakage.

It's more likely that it's already strung because a strung bow looks like a bow, while an unstrung bow looks like a stick.
posted by hanov3r at 8:17 PM on February 4, 2016


it was an attempted joke; CGI arrows do not really require pre-stringing

but it is true that all of the moving arrows on Arrow are CGI, so next time you see the show's archers firing arrow volleys at each other, please mentally insert amusing "PEW PEW" or lightsaber noises, because they are just as real
posted by nicebookrack at 10:40 PM on February 4, 2016


But I checked out hard in s1ep3 when Oliver Freaking Queen of all people said he would like to "gentrify the neighborhood" with his Glades nightclub. He ain't the Green Arrow for me.

The show does take a long time to get into its groove, but by the second season onwards you're really watching him transforming from a brooding murderer into what the Green Arrow stands for. In fact he goes by "Arrow" for a loooong time. He's only recently the "Green Arrow" in the show. The flashbacks are also a great separate story both shows you why he's a brooding murderer but also the background context of some of the stuff happening in present day.

It's definitely not your typical comic book hero show, so I can understand why it's hard to get into. It doesn't jump in full-on campy like Flash or Supergirl or even the old Lois & Clark Adventures. I guess it's more akin to the current Gotham, but with the actual hero. However it provides a great complement to the other shows and makes them even more enjoyable.
posted by numaner at 1:08 AM on February 5, 2016 [3 favorites]


Meanwhile, the current Marvel house animation style is horrible.

Just so we're clear: You are, of course, not including Avengers: Earth's Mightest Heroes as current, right?

I guess it's more akin to the current Gotham, but with the actual hero.

Speaking of fighting words....

I'm curious about the idea that Supergirl has been too frightening, but the White Martian episode did seem to push boundaries, so I guess maybe they're moving away from it being 'family friendly'?

(I found Tarpit's explanation of his 'death' pretty horrific this week too, for whatever that's worth).
posted by Mezentian at 5:20 AM on February 5, 2016


The flashbacks are also a great separate story both shows you why he's a brooding murderer but also the background context of some of the stuff happening in present day.

Hi, I'm Bulgaroktonos, it has been two years since I last cared about an Arrow flashback.

HI BULGAROKTONOS

Seriously, though, I feel like this is a great pitch for what Arrow was up through season two, and what it could be again, but not what I feel like it is. Ollie's arc feels like it's lost its way, he feels even less like he cares about the plight of the poor than he did in season one, and the flashbacks are bugging me worse than ever. The show is really losing me, when I know I could devote that time to Flash, Supergirl, or (right now) Agent Carter.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:09 AM on February 5, 2016


You are, of course, not including Avengers: Earth's Mightest Heroes as current, right?

Of course not. A: EMH was replaced by the unwatchable Avengers Assemble. EMH was animated by Film Roman, Spectacular Spider-Man was animated by Sony. Both were cancelled and the animation was brought in-house. And all the new stuff is quite bad, and a big step down from what came before.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 6:10 AM on February 5, 2016


Of course not. A: EMH was replaced by the unwatchable Avengers Assemble.

Then, always, we shall fight as one!

(also, shout-out to DC's Final Frontier. That was awesome).
posted by Mezentian at 6:38 AM on February 5, 2016


Mezentian, do you mean The New Frontier?

It's full of great characters, but has some of the best WW dialogue in existence: "There's the door, spaceman."
posted by bonehead at 9:26 AM on February 5, 2016


I do indeed mean The New Frontier. Thanks.

I really must buy it on DVD in lieu of ever seeing Batman Vs Superman.
posted by Mezentian at 6:49 PM on February 5, 2016


No, Barry's the right Flash for Crisis.

Yeah but this TV Flash has a LOT of post-Crisis Wally DNA in it. Or did, anyway, since it can't make up its mind about top speed and calorie requirements. The trappings around him were a lot of things invented for Wally as well.
posted by phearlez at 7:27 PM on February 7, 2016


I'm pretty certain the whole "speed force" stuff is post-crisis. So this Flash isn't that Flash anyway.

With re-imaginations and reboots all the time, it's a concern that the writers do keep the core of the character. Barry was/is always good-hearted, optimistic and rather deliberate. He's that ultra-reliable friend who always seems to be there for people. And I see that in this version, more so than many of the other adaptations. The current DC animated universe stuff seems to have figured that out too, thank goodness.
posted by bonehead at 8:59 AM on February 8, 2016


Just to clarify, Wally was a lot more impulsive than Barry, and that was one of the sources of tension between them. After Barry dies in the Crisis, and Wally inherits the Flash, Wally has to become more mature and learn to be more thoughtful, do something that came naturally to Barry.

When we see Wally as a full adult, through the eyes of the ever-more distractable youngsters like Impulse, while he does have his shit together, we know how hard-won it was. But Kid Flash had his problems with Flash.
posted by bonehead at 9:15 AM on February 8, 2016


I think if we're going to talk about the ultra-reliable Flash you probably had a more true portrayal with Shipp in the 80s, playing an older and more mature character. But I absolutely agree, one of the things I love about this show is Barry's optimism and good-heartedness. Even when he's discouraged he still is interested in the Right Thing.

But you're right, this Flash isn't that Flash and that's pretty much what I meant. Supergirl and Flash were wiped away by DC in Crisis primarily because they were just too powerful and too staid. Things that can't at all be said about this Supergirl, who is still getting a handle on her powers and her place in the world, or this Flash, who is still so green. The Barry Allen who sacrificed himself in Crisis could just bop around in time like he was going to the corner store.
posted by phearlez at 10:14 AM on February 8, 2016


> "There's the door, spaceman."
posted by homunculus at 10:23 AM on February 8, 2016


LOOK AT THESE CUTIEPUFFS
posted by nicebookrack at 6:06 PM on February 10, 2016 [1 favorite]


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