A Questionable Business Plan
February 8, 2016 8:00 PM Subscribe
Buymeonce.com is a website that sells things you should only have to buy once, because they have a lifetime guarantee, lifetime repairs, or are just very well made.
I love that one of the first things you see on the page when you open it is a Le Creuset dutch oven. They're not kidding about "buy me once"; you buy one of those, your great-grandchildren will be using it.
posted by Itaxpica at 8:02 PM on February 8, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Itaxpica at 8:02 PM on February 8, 2016 [11 favorites]
This is definitely one of the more brilliant Amazon Referral marketing websites I've seen. I don't mean that as snark. I literally wish I'd thought of it first.
posted by windbox at 8:05 PM on February 8, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by windbox at 8:05 PM on February 8, 2016 [12 favorites]
And Timberland boots. I don't really like them, but unless I throw them on a pyre I am stuck with them.
posted by yhbc at 8:07 PM on February 8, 2016
posted by yhbc at 8:07 PM on February 8, 2016
real talk: I stared at the url in puzzlement for a full minute before I parsed it correctly as something that had nothing to do with Beyoncé.
posted by nonasuch at 8:07 PM on February 8, 2016 [182 favorites]
posted by nonasuch at 8:07 PM on February 8, 2016 [182 favorites]
I'm sure those Davek umbrellas will last a lifetime, but I have to keep buying those cheap $5 umbrellas they sell on the street because I keep losing them all the time.
posted by cazoo at 8:12 PM on February 8, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by cazoo at 8:12 PM on February 8, 2016 [7 favorites]
There's a big difference between "buy once" and a lifetime guarantee. There's literally no point besides value if they just give you a new case to replace a polycarb shell suitcase that's been shattered. A Saddleback suitcase, being full grain leather and pig skin lined will probably last forever but also costs a tenner under $1200 and a carry on is another grand. Compared to polycarb which runs between $200-$500 with the carry on thrown in basically for free it's a hell of an investment to make even if it does last forever.
I've been looking for a laptop backpack that will last forever. The Saddleback just doesn't have the form factor I'm looking for. This site was an instant disappointment. It's just brand promotion! None of the products are very well considered. I'd rather try using Reddit's garbage search engine on /r/buyitforlife instead of this site.
posted by Talez at 8:15 PM on February 8, 2016 [7 favorites]
I've been looking for a laptop backpack that will last forever. The Saddleback just doesn't have the form factor I'm looking for. This site was an instant disappointment. It's just brand promotion! None of the products are very well considered. I'd rather try using Reddit's garbage search engine on /r/buyitforlife instead of this site.
posted by Talez at 8:15 PM on February 8, 2016 [7 favorites]
Where's the section of computers guaranteed against obsolescence?
posted by jon1270 at 8:20 PM on February 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by jon1270 at 8:20 PM on February 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
Does have cast iron pots, but no cast iron pans?
posted by hleehowon at 8:21 PM on February 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by hleehowon at 8:21 PM on February 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
The secret to buying things that will last forever is to not mind when the things you use are worn, ugly, or slightly broken!
That said, I sure do love my hand-me-down early 70s 8-speed Osterizer, and it's a nice feeling to know my kids are gonna be using it after I'm dead.
posted by escabeche at 8:25 PM on February 8, 2016 [16 favorites]
That said, I sure do love my hand-me-down early 70s 8-speed Osterizer, and it's a nice feeling to know my kids are gonna be using it after I'm dead.
posted by escabeche at 8:25 PM on February 8, 2016 [16 favorites]
Shortly after my parents got married, in 1963, they and another couple had a dinner party where a salesman for Mirroware cookware came over and made dinner for them in their kitchen (Swiss Steak!), demonstrating the greatness of the pots and pans. I guess that Swiss Steak was pretty great, because they bought the full set. Those were the pots and pans my mom cooked in until well after I moved out after high school. When she finally replaced them, I got the hand-me-downs.
And those were MY everyday pans until 8 years ago or so, when my soon-to-be ex-spouse refused to eat food that was cooked in them because they're aluminum, and the finish was somewhat worn, and she is a hypochondriac and was afraid of catching Alzheimer's from them. I told that to my mom on the phone one day, and she said "Well you know, that salesman who cooked us the Swiss Steak said they had a lifetime guarantee."
So I did some research, and Mirroware has been bought by Wearever. Sort of on a lark, I called Wearever and told them I had some Mirroware cookware that was purchased in 1963 and that the finish was worn and that I was interested in having them replaced.
The lady on the phone surprised me and said "Yes ma'am, those products are guaranteed for life. We'd be happy to replace them. Please send us the original receipt."
And that's why I still have a somewhat-worn collection of guaranteed-for-life Mirroware pots and pans from 1963 that I don't cook with but can't make myself get rid of.
posted by mudpuppie at 8:32 PM on February 8, 2016 [100 favorites]
And those were MY everyday pans until 8 years ago or so, when my soon-to-be ex-spouse refused to eat food that was cooked in them because they're aluminum, and the finish was somewhat worn, and she is a hypochondriac and was afraid of catching Alzheimer's from them. I told that to my mom on the phone one day, and she said "Well you know, that salesman who cooked us the Swiss Steak said they had a lifetime guarantee."
So I did some research, and Mirroware has been bought by Wearever. Sort of on a lark, I called Wearever and told them I had some Mirroware cookware that was purchased in 1963 and that the finish was worn and that I was interested in having them replaced.
The lady on the phone surprised me and said "Yes ma'am, those products are guaranteed for life. We'd be happy to replace them. Please send us the original receipt."
And that's why I still have a somewhat-worn collection of guaranteed-for-life Mirroware pots and pans from 1963 that I don't cook with but can't make myself get rid of.
posted by mudpuppie at 8:32 PM on February 8, 2016 [100 favorites]
real talk: I stared at the url in puzzlement for a full minute before I parsed it correctly as something that had nothing to do with Beyoncé.
And on (not) preview: It wasn't just you.
posted by mudpuppie at 8:33 PM on February 8, 2016 [7 favorites]
And on (not) preview: It wasn't just you.
posted by mudpuppie at 8:33 PM on February 8, 2016 [7 favorites]
I really wonder how much of the content there is pulled from here, which has definitely existed a lot longer than this site.
posted by emptythought at 8:36 PM on February 8, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by emptythought at 8:36 PM on February 8, 2016 [5 favorites]
Sign of the zeitgeist: I thought the link was going to have something to do with Beyonce.
posted by Lyme Drop at 8:40 PM on February 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Lyme Drop at 8:40 PM on February 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
I got one of those Peugeot pepper mills a couple years back and it was a GOOD DECISION, I love that thing.
Plus whenever I grind pepper it makes me happy to think to myself, "No wonder it grinds so well, Peugeot makes cars, they must be good at gears."
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:42 PM on February 8, 2016 [13 favorites]
Plus whenever I grind pepper it makes me happy to think to myself, "No wonder it grinds so well, Peugeot makes cars, they must be good at gears."
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:42 PM on February 8, 2016 [13 favorites]
Buymeoncé?
posted by flippant at 8:42 PM on February 8, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by flippant at 8:42 PM on February 8, 2016 [19 favorites]
Second about the Peugot peppermills. I bought one for Mr. Palmcorder about a decade ago. We use it just about every day and it's still good as new.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 8:46 PM on February 8, 2016
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 8:46 PM on February 8, 2016
I once killed a pair of Timberland boots in less than two weeks tree planting.
Those German boot makers do it right though. Meindls or Hanawags would probably last a life time. Just avoid the cutblocks.
posted by mannequito at 8:47 PM on February 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
Those German boot makers do it right though. Meindls or Hanawags would probably last a life time. Just avoid the cutblocks.
posted by mannequito at 8:47 PM on February 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
I dunno. It's just, like--well, why those particular clothes from Patagonia? Does Patagonia make those things better than other people? Are those the most reliable things Patagonia makes? The White T-Shirt Company appears to be selling $50 t-shirts and they don't have lifetime guarantees and the company's only been around a decade, and for like three years of that wasn't even operating. That doesn't scream reliability to me. At least I trust Sweethome and Wirecutter to not be cagey about where their income comes from, but to actually talk about the methodology about how they pick what products they end up listing. I've often come away buying something other than their top pick, but usually at that point I know why I want what I want. I'd totally buy $50 t-shirts if they were 10+ year t-shirts, but I'm not just taking their word for it without more elaboration, you know?
This is a shell of a good idea, but there's not enough substance. But at least this pointed out another site (the subreddit) that I wouldn't have just stumbled onto myself otherwise.
posted by Sequence at 8:47 PM on February 8, 2016 [5 favorites]
This is a shell of a good idea, but there's not enough substance. But at least this pointed out another site (the subreddit) that I wouldn't have just stumbled onto myself otherwise.
posted by Sequence at 8:47 PM on February 8, 2016 [5 favorites]
Disappointed there are no humane mouse traps on the site.
posted by adept256 at 8:48 PM on February 8, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 8:48 PM on February 8, 2016 [8 favorites]
I really want to like this but it's some pretty thin marketing. There's no particular evidence presented that any of these things really will last forever, just a manufacturer's claim. The product submission appears to be aimed at marketers and manufacturers, not people who have used them. There's no feedback mechanism for someone who's used something to confirm or deny its durability.
The one thing I feel sort of qualified to judge, the chair, is just a generic dinner chair. No mention of the joinery used to put it together, which usually means it's dowels, biscuits, or pocket screws. It'll probably be fine for ten years, maybe twenty if you take care. That would be impressive for a pair of shoes, but not so much for furniture.
There's room for a site that does actual durability tests - we washed these dresses 60 times and here's what happened to them, for example. Until someone does the Cook's Illustrated of durable goods, I'll have to stick to that Reddit thread.
posted by echo target at 8:49 PM on February 8, 2016 [10 favorites]
The one thing I feel sort of qualified to judge, the chair, is just a generic dinner chair. No mention of the joinery used to put it together, which usually means it's dowels, biscuits, or pocket screws. It'll probably be fine for ten years, maybe twenty if you take care. That would be impressive for a pair of shoes, but not so much for furniture.
There's room for a site that does actual durability tests - we washed these dresses 60 times and here's what happened to them, for example. Until someone does the Cook's Illustrated of durable goods, I'll have to stick to that Reddit thread.
posted by echo target at 8:49 PM on February 8, 2016 [10 favorites]
Some of the clothes may last a lifetime, but their styles not so much.
The tried and true approach to this is what investment dressing is all about. True, you'll never be dressed in the hottest styles, but you'll have a closet full of well-made, classic pieces that will always look good, and wear beautifully.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:50 PM on February 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
The tried and true approach to this is what investment dressing is all about. True, you'll never be dressed in the hottest styles, but you'll have a closet full of well-made, classic pieces that will always look good, and wear beautifully.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:50 PM on February 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
I've been looking for a laptop backpack that will last forever. The Saddleback just doesn't have the form factor I'm looking for.
Tom Bihn (no affiliation) has several you might look at. They don't have what I would call a true lifetime guarantee, but their bags are quite sturdy and well-made.
This site was an instant disappointment. It's just brand promotion!
They're hardly even changing the original ad blurbs for the items, as far as I can tell.
posted by praemunire at 9:00 PM on February 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Tom Bihn (no affiliation) has several you might look at. They don't have what I would call a true lifetime guarantee, but their bags are quite sturdy and well-made.
This site was an instant disappointment. It's just brand promotion!
They're hardly even changing the original ad blurbs for the items, as far as I can tell.
posted by praemunire at 9:00 PM on February 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
I was looking for capacitors for an engineering design once and found some for which the manufacturer said "for mobile use only". I never saw that one before. I asked the manufacturer (one of the largest capacitor companies) what that meant. "It means they are meant for cell phone designs. They have reduced reliability." I checked the datasheet in detail: failing after 5 years is a reasonable expectation, depending on how they are used.
There's a reason that there are no electronics on this site.
posted by eye of newt at 9:08 PM on February 8, 2016 [7 favorites]
There's a reason that there are no electronics on this site.
posted by eye of newt at 9:08 PM on February 8, 2016 [7 favorites]
I read the URL as "Bemeowncé" and thought it was going to be cats singing Beyoncé songs, or cats who look like Beyoncé, or maybe just Beyoncé with cats. I am disappoint.
posted by carmicha at 9:09 PM on February 8, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by carmicha at 9:09 PM on February 8, 2016 [14 favorites]
"My apartment burned down and I have an insurance check, what can I buy once that will last forever?" would be a great ask Metafilter. I'd have to recommend Dualit toasters, Zojirushi water boilers & rice cookers, and Griswold cast iron pans (if you can find them).
posted by BrotherCaine at 9:09 PM on February 8, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by BrotherCaine at 9:09 PM on February 8, 2016 [5 favorites]
Where's my purse-sized hot sauce?
posted by sallybrown at 9:14 PM on February 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 9:14 PM on February 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
I live a good paint brush as much as the next DIY'er but even with a lot of babying, no paint brush is going to last a lifetime. Not with latex paint at least. That said, I have a brush or two that's probably close to a decade old now.
posted by GuyZero at 9:15 PM on February 8, 2016
posted by GuyZero at 9:15 PM on February 8, 2016
So this URL... it looks like Beyoncé?
posted by escabeche at 9:20 PM on February 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by escabeche at 9:20 PM on February 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
I do understand the appeal. I absolutely hate re-buying things -- once something's been bought, I want it to stay bought so I can use my brain for other stuff! But I find it hard to believe that any of these items are really any better made than their competitors. You can give your great-grandkids Le Creuset, I'll give mine $20 Lodge pans, they're basically identical except for the color.
posted by miyabo at 9:23 PM on February 8, 2016
posted by miyabo at 9:23 PM on February 8, 2016
well, BuyMeOnce is an anagram for UmBeyonce (if you ignore the é) and I suspect that more people would shop at UmBeyonce than BuyMeOnce...
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:23 PM on February 8, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:23 PM on February 8, 2016 [6 favorites]
There's room for a site that does actual durability tests - we washed these dresses 60 times and here's what happened to them, for example. Until someone does the Cook's Illustrated of durable goods, I'll have to stick to that Reddit thread.
Isn't that what Consumers Report does?
posted by Dip Flash at 9:25 PM on February 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
Isn't that what Consumers Report does?
posted by Dip Flash at 9:25 PM on February 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
Isn't that what Consumers Report does?
Yeah, I suppose so. They don't really do clothing or furniture, though. Although they're usually quite good within their sphere.
posted by echo target at 9:34 PM on February 8, 2016
Yeah, I suppose so. They don't really do clothing or furniture, though. Although they're usually quite good within their sphere.
posted by echo target at 9:34 PM on February 8, 2016
Does have cast iron pots, but no cast iron pans?
I'll go you one better: They have a nonstick pan on there. There's literally no such thing as a nonstick pan that doesn't need replacing, if you use your pans at all frequently. Which is precisely why you don't buy something the cost of All Clad for nonstick.
Some of those recommendations are great, but I agree that some choices seem barely considered next to what you'd see on a site like The Sweethome.
posted by middleclasstool at 9:53 PM on February 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'll go you one better: They have a nonstick pan on there. There's literally no such thing as a nonstick pan that doesn't need replacing, if you use your pans at all frequently. Which is precisely why you don't buy something the cost of All Clad for nonstick.
Some of those recommendations are great, but I agree that some choices seem barely considered next to what you'd see on a site like The Sweethome.
posted by middleclasstool at 9:53 PM on February 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
'Buy me once' is my basic shopping philosophy. It has served me very, very well.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:55 PM on February 8, 2016
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:55 PM on February 8, 2016
Where's the section of computers guaranteed against obsolescence?
This is, of course, impossible.
That said, the Mac Book C2D ('blackbook') and the mid-2012 MBP are probably the most recent examples. And possibly the last non-trashcan Mac Pro.
Or, if you're willing to narrow to a CPU, the older Xeon hexacores on the PC side. Once hideously expensive, now eBay-able for super cheap. Although the compatible motherboards are starting to be a bit of a challenge to source.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:00 PM on February 8, 2016
This is, of course, impossible.
That said, the Mac Book C2D ('blackbook') and the mid-2012 MBP are probably the most recent examples. And possibly the last non-trashcan Mac Pro.
Or, if you're willing to narrow to a CPU, the older Xeon hexacores on the PC side. Once hideously expensive, now eBay-able for super cheap. Although the compatible motherboards are starting to be a bit of a challenge to source.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:00 PM on February 8, 2016
These wine glasses are loved by hotels because they are clumsy-people resistant. Made with patented Tritan Crystal they are wonderfully break resistant.
Sounds like a challenge.
posted by Drinky Die at 10:13 PM on February 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sounds like a challenge.
posted by Drinky Die at 10:13 PM on February 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Jeez. A boot company whose "lifetime guarantee" actually covered normal wear would be nice.
After a year or more, how can you tell what's wear, and what's a manufacturing defect?
posted by Mister Moofoo at 10:44 PM on February 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
After a year or more, how can you tell what's wear, and what's a manufacturing defect?
posted by Mister Moofoo at 10:44 PM on February 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
I like that they recommend a specific brand of hammer, as though some other hammer might get worn down to a nub after just a couple years.
posted by aubilenon at 11:08 PM on February 8, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by aubilenon at 11:08 PM on February 8, 2016 [20 favorites]
You can give your great-grandkids Le Creuset, I'll give mine $20 Lodge pans, they're basically identical except for the color.
There are some things I would be okay with cooking in an enameled cast iron pan (Le Crueset), that I wouldn't in an non-enameled cast iron pan (Lodge). And vice versa.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:12 PM on February 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
There are some things I would be okay with cooking in an enameled cast iron pan (Le Crueset), that I wouldn't in an non-enameled cast iron pan (Lodge). And vice versa.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:12 PM on February 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
To the poster looking for a backpack/laptop bag:
If you want one in a military/law enforcement style and can wait a short while, John Willis will build you the most rugged bag you ever buy. There are a lot of people who bet their lives on his gear on a daily basis. There's the best, there's the best of the rest, and then there's John. Handle one of his products and you'll get it. Picking up a $15 mag pouch is what did it for me, back in the day.
If you need it now (and like the military style), Spec-Ops Brand (similar name, different company) has what you need. They're not on John's level (then again nobody is), but they do make some indestructible stuff. I've subjected one of their backpacks to vigorous abuse for about 10 years now and aside from a little sun fading and an animal biting off the cord on a zipper pull it looks brand new if I take a brush to it and run it through the washing machine.
Disclaimer: I'm not involved in either company in any way, and I was emphatically never in a combat role in any SOF unit, or any unit; and I have never worked for (and will never work for) any police department.
posted by Hiding From Goro at 11:14 PM on February 8, 2016 [10 favorites]
If you want one in a military/law enforcement style and can wait a short while, John Willis will build you the most rugged bag you ever buy. There are a lot of people who bet their lives on his gear on a daily basis. There's the best, there's the best of the rest, and then there's John. Handle one of his products and you'll get it. Picking up a $15 mag pouch is what did it for me, back in the day.
If you need it now (and like the military style), Spec-Ops Brand (similar name, different company) has what you need. They're not on John's level (then again nobody is), but they do make some indestructible stuff. I've subjected one of their backpacks to vigorous abuse for about 10 years now and aside from a little sun fading and an animal biting off the cord on a zipper pull it looks brand new if I take a brush to it and run it through the washing machine.
Disclaimer: I'm not involved in either company in any way, and I was emphatically never in a combat role in any SOF unit, or any unit; and I have never worked for (and will never work for) any police department.
posted by Hiding From Goro at 11:14 PM on February 8, 2016 [10 favorites]
One way to find this kind of stuff, especially in tools, is to look at CL and see what old tools turn up and sell very quickly. Like old Delta stationary tools. Alas, most of the legacy brand names are no longer made in the same way. They'll undoubtedly be better, for awhile, perhaps a long while, but the odds of people buying 2015 Unisaws in 2075 are probably fairly low.
posted by maxwelton at 11:24 PM on February 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by maxwelton at 11:24 PM on February 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
I like that they recommend a specific brand of hammer, as though some other hammer might get worn down to a nub after just a couple years.
"Has this ever happened to you?"
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 1:02 AM on February 9, 2016
"Has this ever happened to you?"
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 1:02 AM on February 9, 2016
We've done this in ask -me before. No knock on reddit or this new thing, it's a worthwhile topic.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:11 AM on February 9, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by From Bklyn at 1:11 AM on February 9, 2016 [3 favorites]
"Has this ever happened to you?"
Has to me. Not funny as other half left very rapidly. Then funny, because it didn't do any major damage.
posted by holist at 1:34 AM on February 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
Has to me. Not funny as other half left very rapidly. Then funny, because it didn't do any major damage.
posted by holist at 1:34 AM on February 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
like about five or six years ago I bought a messenger bag from John Peters based on the recommendation of a luggage store owner in the Castro who had very strong opinions indeed about bags, specifically, about how everyone should buy John Peters instead of Manhattan Portage because of how the quality of Manhattan Portage bags had gotten dramatically worse after John Peters had been pushed out of the company.
Castro luggage store owner was completely right; whereas the Manhattan Portage bag I was replacing had fallen apart after about a year and a half, the John Peters bag he sold me is absolutely, completely indestructible. More's the pity, since messenger bags are so wildly out of fashion now.
But anyway, I typically don't talk up products, but if you're looking for a bag that won't fall apart and also won't make you look like a fucking cop, and won't make you feel like an asshole for patronizing a business that markets to fucking cops, you could do a lot worse than John Peters.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:50 AM on February 9, 2016 [8 favorites]
Castro luggage store owner was completely right; whereas the Manhattan Portage bag I was replacing had fallen apart after about a year and a half, the John Peters bag he sold me is absolutely, completely indestructible. More's the pity, since messenger bags are so wildly out of fashion now.
But anyway, I typically don't talk up products, but if you're looking for a bag that won't fall apart and also won't make you look like a fucking cop, and won't make you feel like an asshole for patronizing a business that markets to fucking cops, you could do a lot worse than John Peters.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:50 AM on February 9, 2016 [8 favorites]
Pincinox pegs (for hanging washing) are an example of the sort of thing that I've been thinking someone should be building a retail empire around - things that cost maybe two or three times normal, but won't ever need replacing. It turns out though that there are quite a few eBay/Amazon sellers who specialise in all of these 'hidden gems' - often items being made by the same manufacturer with no significant design changes in fifty or a hundred years. I've kind of made it my mission as a consumer to own all of these items, and hopefully pass many of them on to my kids.
Tip: Chasseur enamelled cast iron is quite a bit cheaper than Le Creuset, and cooks/lasts just as well. The colours are often better too.
posted by pipeski at 3:21 AM on February 9, 2016 [6 favorites]
Tip: Chasseur enamelled cast iron is quite a bit cheaper than Le Creuset, and cooks/lasts just as well. The colours are often better too.
posted by pipeski at 3:21 AM on February 9, 2016 [6 favorites]
whereas the Manhattan Portage bag I was replacing had fallen apart after about a year and a half, the John Peters bag he sold me is absolutely, completely indestructible. More's the pity, since messenger bags are so wildly out of fashion now.
Heh, yeah, sometimes you don't need products that are invincible forever. I had a Manhattan Portage bag that lasted about six years with minimal wear and tear: four years of daily use, two years of gathering dust in my closet after I'd gotten bored with it. It was not the highest-quality bag I've ever owned, but I paid $40 for it.
For tools and appliances, I'd rather buy something only once. For clothing, shoes, and accessories, I prefer durable stuff, but very rarely need anything built to last longer than five years or so.
posted by Metroid Baby at 3:48 AM on February 9, 2016
Heh, yeah, sometimes you don't need products that are invincible forever. I had a Manhattan Portage bag that lasted about six years with minimal wear and tear: four years of daily use, two years of gathering dust in my closet after I'd gotten bored with it. It was not the highest-quality bag I've ever owned, but I paid $40 for it.
For tools and appliances, I'd rather buy something only once. For clothing, shoes, and accessories, I prefer durable stuff, but very rarely need anything built to last longer than five years or so.
posted by Metroid Baby at 3:48 AM on February 9, 2016
Was pretty disappointed by their selection, thought Manufactum nailed this idea.
posted by speakeasy at 3:57 AM on February 9, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by speakeasy at 3:57 AM on February 9, 2016 [6 favorites]
"There are some things I would be okay with cooking in an enameled cast iron pan (Le Crueset), that I wouldn't in an non-enameled cast iron pan (Lodge). And vice versa."
Lodge makes an excellent enameled Dutch oven for less than half the cost of Le Crueset that we have talked about before.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:26 AM on February 9, 2016 [7 favorites]
Lodge makes an excellent enameled Dutch oven for less than half the cost of Le Crueset that we have talked about before.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:26 AM on February 9, 2016 [7 favorites]
Their shoe section is ridiculous. Yes, you can replace the PVC soles of Doc Martens, which is necessary every 2 - 3 years, but it'll cost you almost as much as a new pair, and you're creating a lot of plastic garbage that way. (I like Docs, but this is not an example of sustainability).
If you want shoes for a lifetime, get 2 - 3 pairs of decent leather shoes with goodyear welded leather soles, wear them alternately, changing daily (so the leather can rest), have the cobbler put rubber protection soles on them or replace the lower leather layer when necessary, use natural shoe polish or grease, and you're done. So you spend about 1000 - 1500 $ initially, and then you don't have to worry anymore. Added benefit: you have shoes which fit like a glove.
There are quite some classic shoe designs which haven't changed for decades and are never out of style.
Its harder to find women's shoes which fit these criteria, but they exist. Most shoes for women are, frankly, garbage. What many fashionable shoes do to the feet isn't very far removed from the chinese foot binding.
posted by ojemine at 4:32 AM on February 9, 2016 [7 favorites]
If you want shoes for a lifetime, get 2 - 3 pairs of decent leather shoes with goodyear welded leather soles, wear them alternately, changing daily (so the leather can rest), have the cobbler put rubber protection soles on them or replace the lower leather layer when necessary, use natural shoe polish or grease, and you're done. So you spend about 1000 - 1500 $ initially, and then you don't have to worry anymore. Added benefit: you have shoes which fit like a glove.
There are quite some classic shoe designs which haven't changed for decades and are never out of style.
Its harder to find women's shoes which fit these criteria, but they exist. Most shoes for women are, frankly, garbage. What many fashionable shoes do to the feet isn't very far removed from the chinese foot binding.
posted by ojemine at 4:32 AM on February 9, 2016 [7 favorites]
MetaFilter: I thought the link was going to have something to do with Beyoncé
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:35 AM on February 9, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:35 AM on February 9, 2016 [6 favorites]
rather than buy things that "last forever" i try to buy things only if i really like them.
this has several advantages. first, it's a good filter: you buy less un-needed crap. second, you live with them longer: you're more prepared to tolerate damage, deterioration, aging. third, you use them, because you like them.
obviously, in a perfect world, you would love it and it would last a lifetime. but i'd argue it's better to buy something you love, and use, for as long as possible, than something that lasts a lifetime in a cupboard.
posted by andrewcooke at 4:50 AM on February 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
this has several advantages. first, it's a good filter: you buy less un-needed crap. second, you live with them longer: you're more prepared to tolerate damage, deterioration, aging. third, you use them, because you like them.
obviously, in a perfect world, you would love it and it would last a lifetime. but i'd argue it's better to buy something you love, and use, for as long as possible, than something that lasts a lifetime in a cupboard.
posted by andrewcooke at 4:50 AM on February 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
Tip: Chasseur enamelled cast iron is quite a bit cheaper than Le Creuset, and cooks/lasts just as well. The colours are often better too.
Lodge makes enameled pots that are very good too. I actually prefer them to Le Creuset for things like baking a boule of bread because the bottom interior corners are rounded, so it's easier to get a flexible spatula under the bread if it sticks.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:17 AM on February 9, 2016
Lodge makes enameled pots that are very good too. I actually prefer them to Le Creuset for things like baking a boule of bread because the bottom interior corners are rounded, so it's easier to get a flexible spatula under the bread if it sticks.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:17 AM on February 9, 2016
Yes, Lodge enameled pots are awesome, too, and much cheaper. I'm a huge fan of (old) enamelware - 'splatterware' - it's pretty and basically indestructible. I don't know why it's out of fashion.
Oh, and Manufaktum mentioned upthread...they sell overpriced, pretty, crap. And they don't honor their guarantee, at all. I remember stories from German relatives about the €600 toaster that wouldn't toast evenly...like, it was worse than a $20 Target toaster...they actually sent a customer representative to explain to my inlaws that no, it wasn't a piece of crap, it was actually user error - they just had to use this bread and slice it just so...instead of just taking it back! (Even with instructions it didn't toast evenly). Same with a 'indestructible' Canvas bag my brother-in-law bought that sprouted holes (holes! In thick canvas! Just like that!) after the first weekend trip. They refused to refund or replace and instead patched the (clearly defective!) bag several times...
posted by The Toad at 5:34 AM on February 9, 2016
Oh, and Manufaktum mentioned upthread...they sell overpriced, pretty, crap. And they don't honor their guarantee, at all. I remember stories from German relatives about the €600 toaster that wouldn't toast evenly...like, it was worse than a $20 Target toaster...they actually sent a customer representative to explain to my inlaws that no, it wasn't a piece of crap, it was actually user error - they just had to use this bread and slice it just so...instead of just taking it back! (Even with instructions it didn't toast evenly). Same with a 'indestructible' Canvas bag my brother-in-law bought that sprouted holes (holes! In thick canvas! Just like that!) after the first weekend trip. They refused to refund or replace and instead patched the (clearly defective!) bag several times...
posted by The Toad at 5:34 AM on February 9, 2016
I like that they recommend a specific brand of hammer, as though some other hammer might get worn down to a nub after just a couple years.
As shown in a picture above, crappy hammers break (more often in the handle) and are less pleasant to use. All the carpenters I know use Estwing hammers, which the one the are recommending looks like a copy of. I've never seen an Estwing break, though I am sure it is possible given enough abuse, and it is a perfect example of a time to buy genuine quality rather than buying whatever has the better sounding warranty.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:53 AM on February 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
As shown in a picture above, crappy hammers break (more often in the handle) and are less pleasant to use. All the carpenters I know use Estwing hammers, which the one the are recommending looks like a copy of. I've never seen an Estwing break, though I am sure it is possible given enough abuse, and it is a perfect example of a time to buy genuine quality rather than buying whatever has the better sounding warranty.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:53 AM on February 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
re fashion lasting forever. In my closet is a coco channel suit purchased in the 60s. My mother wore it, I've worn it, my friends have worn it, it still looks brand new. I've recently decided that I'm never going to be cocaine thin again, so soon, I will probably donate it to my alma mater, which has an astonishing fashion design program, and would love to display it with its gloves and hat.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:00 AM on February 9, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:00 AM on February 9, 2016 [4 favorites]
Manufactum is a bit of J.Peterman, but with a German sensibility. The branded things they sell are marked up roughly 100%, the things made for the store, under the house brand are...not the best quality. It's kind of a bummer because what they offer is damn seductive.
posted by From Bklyn at 6:02 AM on February 9, 2016
posted by From Bklyn at 6:02 AM on February 9, 2016
I'm an industrial design fanatic and a former media conservation technician, and I'm always fascinated by the way some things are just seemingly eternal, while others are indefinitely capable of maintenance, and some are just running on a lit fuse from the day they leave the factory.
I've got the oscillating Westinghouse desk fan my grandmother looted her savings passbook to buy in 1938, right after my mother was born, because it was unusually hot in May that year in Baltimore, and it works beautifully not because it made a pact with the devil, but rather because it is made of simple materials and simple systems, and every four or five years, I lay it out on newspaper on my workbench, dismantle it down to its components, clean out the dust and lint and hair and other greasy nonsense, change the carbon brushes if needed, clean and polish everything, apply grease and oil where it belongs and wipe it off where it does not, and it's good for another five years. Seventy-eight years down, it's good for another seventy-eight if someone gets it after me and takes the same care.
On the other side of the coin, I have the French blue steel crepe pan my sister bought me in 1986, which I've washed with soap about five times in thirty years, and barring a little warping it suffered when I was young and green and still learning the craft of cooking, it's good for as long as someone owns it who understands the concept of seasoning and doesn't idiotically soak it in the sink. Same goes for my slightly cheaper, but well-made, impersonations of All-Clad-type pro cookware sold as a house brand by the various stores owned by Federated Department Stores, Inc., which succeed by virtue of being slavish to the heavy build of what they cloned, unlike cheaper versions with riveted handles and heavy look but no real body.
Anything with nonstick coatings, beyond being worse than Hitler, famine, and child abuse, is doomed from the first day, and you'll have the privilege of eating all that polytetrafluoroethylene in the tragic butter-free bomb shelter ration-grade meals you grind out without a trace of soul in those pots, not that I have a particularly strong opinion either way.
Simple materials are best. Composites are always bad, unless they're proven over time. The rise of 3D printing makes it possible to resurrect old things with broken plastics and makes it likely that those things can have long lifespans as long as you can get the files to print new parts. Lightweight, slim, elegant things usually don't last, though they're pretty for a while, and fashionable, and Jean Cocteau says we're meant to forgive fashion everything, seeing as it dies young. Old things and ingenuity work, too. The high spec drill I use as a construction worker was one I found immersed in water in a basement of a renovation project, and I took the time to strip it, wire-brush it, and replace bearings, and it's good for another thirty or forty years, at least. I ever terrorized a coworker in my penultimate career by suddenly darting into busy traffic on a Baltimore street to retrieve a tool that I watched being run over again and again until a gap opened up.
"What the hell?" she asked, and I beamed back.
"Vintage Snap-On three-eighth's ratchet," I said with the delight of a lottery winner, feeling a bit sad for the poor schmuck who had it roll off their truck and delirious for myself, because those things are amazing, and it's scuffed up from its time as a pinball and still absolutely perfect in every functional way.
Come to think of it, I'm about to be snowed in, and I think maybe I'll stop writing on Metafilter for now, get that wrench out, and spend a little time giving my also permanently repairable LML Star a little sprucing up in anticipation of a new season of zippification...which is all part of the peculiar instincts of the anti-materialist materialist making a way through the world.
Research well, buy smart, and make it last.
posted by sonascope at 6:07 AM on February 9, 2016 [28 favorites]
I've got the oscillating Westinghouse desk fan my grandmother looted her savings passbook to buy in 1938, right after my mother was born, because it was unusually hot in May that year in Baltimore, and it works beautifully not because it made a pact with the devil, but rather because it is made of simple materials and simple systems, and every four or five years, I lay it out on newspaper on my workbench, dismantle it down to its components, clean out the dust and lint and hair and other greasy nonsense, change the carbon brushes if needed, clean and polish everything, apply grease and oil where it belongs and wipe it off where it does not, and it's good for another five years. Seventy-eight years down, it's good for another seventy-eight if someone gets it after me and takes the same care.
On the other side of the coin, I have the French blue steel crepe pan my sister bought me in 1986, which I've washed with soap about five times in thirty years, and barring a little warping it suffered when I was young and green and still learning the craft of cooking, it's good for as long as someone owns it who understands the concept of seasoning and doesn't idiotically soak it in the sink. Same goes for my slightly cheaper, but well-made, impersonations of All-Clad-type pro cookware sold as a house brand by the various stores owned by Federated Department Stores, Inc., which succeed by virtue of being slavish to the heavy build of what they cloned, unlike cheaper versions with riveted handles and heavy look but no real body.
Anything with nonstick coatings, beyond being worse than Hitler, famine, and child abuse, is doomed from the first day, and you'll have the privilege of eating all that polytetrafluoroethylene in the tragic butter-free bomb shelter ration-grade meals you grind out without a trace of soul in those pots, not that I have a particularly strong opinion either way.
Simple materials are best. Composites are always bad, unless they're proven over time. The rise of 3D printing makes it possible to resurrect old things with broken plastics and makes it likely that those things can have long lifespans as long as you can get the files to print new parts. Lightweight, slim, elegant things usually don't last, though they're pretty for a while, and fashionable, and Jean Cocteau says we're meant to forgive fashion everything, seeing as it dies young. Old things and ingenuity work, too. The high spec drill I use as a construction worker was one I found immersed in water in a basement of a renovation project, and I took the time to strip it, wire-brush it, and replace bearings, and it's good for another thirty or forty years, at least. I ever terrorized a coworker in my penultimate career by suddenly darting into busy traffic on a Baltimore street to retrieve a tool that I watched being run over again and again until a gap opened up.
"What the hell?" she asked, and I beamed back.
"Vintage Snap-On three-eighth's ratchet," I said with the delight of a lottery winner, feeling a bit sad for the poor schmuck who had it roll off their truck and delirious for myself, because those things are amazing, and it's scuffed up from its time as a pinball and still absolutely perfect in every functional way.
Come to think of it, I'm about to be snowed in, and I think maybe I'll stop writing on Metafilter for now, get that wrench out, and spend a little time giving my also permanently repairable LML Star a little sprucing up in anticipation of a new season of zippification...which is all part of the peculiar instincts of the anti-materialist materialist making a way through the world.
Research well, buy smart, and make it last.
posted by sonascope at 6:07 AM on February 9, 2016 [28 favorites]
I've been looking for a really good business bag for years.
The idea of buying a briefcase/business/computer bag of heirloom quality has taken a beating. Modern business requires electronics, and the electronics keep changing. Old attaché and briefcases (from before the era of small mobile electronics) have to be retrofitted for a 15" laptop, assuming they're not too small. A modern laptop won't fit the computer bags of the mid-1990s, which were built for laptops an inch thicker and an inch or two smaller in length and width, and which required accessories like spare batteries, trackballs, network wires, printer cables, etc. Laptop bags from the early 2000s assumed you needed a Palm Pilot rather than a tablet so many of them have pockets and tabs that are awkwardly sized.
I like Tom Binh's design philosophy that the computer should be in a removable, modular sleeve, making the bag relatively future-proof since only the padded insert has to keep up with tech. But there's something about the bag designs that don't work for me. That's a matter of taste, not of quality. Though I can roll with it: a Tom Binh computer sleeve in a bag more compatible to my taste is not a bad way to go.
Currently I'm using a Briggs & Riley bag found on clearance, something happily far below its $260-ish original price though still more than I wanted to spend for a bag I only meant to tide me over until I found The Best Last Bag I Need.
posted by ardgedee at 6:10 AM on February 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
The idea of buying a briefcase/business/computer bag of heirloom quality has taken a beating. Modern business requires electronics, and the electronics keep changing. Old attaché and briefcases (from before the era of small mobile electronics) have to be retrofitted for a 15" laptop, assuming they're not too small. A modern laptop won't fit the computer bags of the mid-1990s, which were built for laptops an inch thicker and an inch or two smaller in length and width, and which required accessories like spare batteries, trackballs, network wires, printer cables, etc. Laptop bags from the early 2000s assumed you needed a Palm Pilot rather than a tablet so many of them have pockets and tabs that are awkwardly sized.
I like Tom Binh's design philosophy that the computer should be in a removable, modular sleeve, making the bag relatively future-proof since only the padded insert has to keep up with tech. But there's something about the bag designs that don't work for me. That's a matter of taste, not of quality. Though I can roll with it: a Tom Binh computer sleeve in a bag more compatible to my taste is not a bad way to go.
Currently I'm using a Briggs & Riley bag found on clearance, something happily far below its $260-ish original price though still more than I wanted to spend for a bag I only meant to tide me over until I found The Best Last Bag I Need.
posted by ardgedee at 6:10 AM on February 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
I should add that my Briggs and Riley bag (a Verb) was designed so that all compartments are lined with overstuffed padding, so that even if the computer is too small (my current work computer is), it's immobilized by the padding. And this seems to work well but probably only until the padding eventually breaks down and collapses or loses its elasticity. So I still feel like I should keep looking.
posted by ardgedee at 6:17 AM on February 9, 2016
posted by ardgedee at 6:17 AM on February 9, 2016
I read the URL as "Bemeowncé" and thought it was going to be cats singing Beyoncé songs, or cats who look like Beyoncé, or maybe just Beyoncé with cats. I am disappoint.
Ms. tenor keeps insisting that we need to name our next cat Meowncé.
posted by madcaptenor at 6:50 AM on February 9, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ms. tenor keeps insisting that we need to name our next cat Meowncé.
posted by madcaptenor at 6:50 AM on February 9, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm kind of surprised nobody's quoted Terry Pratchett yet.
posted by madcaptenor at 6:51 AM on February 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by madcaptenor at 6:51 AM on February 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
snuffleupagus:
Seriously, though, I want to put one of these things in my wife's high school classroom so she can tell her students that the printer is older than they are.
posted by charred husk at 6:53 AM on February 9, 2016 [3 favorites]
"Where's the section of computers guaranteed against obsolescence?My HP Laserjet 4+ laughs and promises to eventually leave flowers on your grave.
This is, of course, impossible. "
Seriously, though, I want to put one of these things in my wife's high school classroom so she can tell her students that the printer is older than they are.
posted by charred husk at 6:53 AM on February 9, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oh my. I read this as "Buy-me-ahn-se" as though it were about Beyoncé.
posted by Stewriffic at 6:54 AM on February 9, 2016
posted by Stewriffic at 6:54 AM on February 9, 2016
(which I guess someone else did, as well)
posted by Stewriffic at 6:55 AM on February 9, 2016
posted by Stewriffic at 6:55 AM on February 9, 2016
Estwing hammers
I still have my brother's old 24 oz Estwing from when he worked construction over 20 years ago before deciding to go to college. This thing will probably survive a nuclear war. It's built with fantastic balance and swings very easily. I've framed a large shed and a large chicken coop with it among other things, and man will that thing let you throw up walls damned fast. It will, as well, shatter the tip of your index finger bone if you hit it dead on, but don't ask me how I know that one. They're outstanding hammers.
posted by azpenguin at 7:01 AM on February 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
I still have my brother's old 24 oz Estwing from when he worked construction over 20 years ago before deciding to go to college. This thing will probably survive a nuclear war. It's built with fantastic balance and swings very easily. I've framed a large shed and a large chicken coop with it among other things, and man will that thing let you throw up walls damned fast. It will, as well, shatter the tip of your index finger bone if you hit it dead on, but don't ask me how I know that one. They're outstanding hammers.
posted by azpenguin at 7:01 AM on February 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
charred husk -- finding computers with parallel ports and/or centronix cables is getting harder and harder.. (I still have my HP 4p under the desk somewhere).
That said, this post feels rather pepsi blue :(
posted by k5.user at 7:02 AM on February 9, 2016
That said, this post feels rather pepsi blue :(
posted by k5.user at 7:02 AM on February 9, 2016
finding computers with parallel ports and/or centronix cables is getting harder and harder.. (I still have my HP 4p under the desk somewhere).
You know you can buy one of these and then you don't have to care, right?
posted by Talez at 7:16 AM on February 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
You know you can buy one of these and then you don't have to care, right?
posted by Talez at 7:16 AM on February 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
My Grado SR60 headphones, while they look truly beat up and the dog chewed the foam pads off so they now sport cheep knock-offs from China (amazingly, the two pads that came in the mail are obviously made of two different kinds of foam!), still sound very good after 5 years.
posted by holist at 7:43 AM on February 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by holist at 7:43 AM on February 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
Expensive men's jeans. Cheap dresses. An unusual case in which the women get screwed on the pricing less than the men. Of course, the dresses look like bridesmaid dresses, but, ya get what ya pay for.
posted by kozad at 8:21 AM on February 9, 2016
posted by kozad at 8:21 AM on February 9, 2016
The site lists several Eagle Creek bags, but Eagle Creek actually no longer honors it’s “Lifetime” warranty—or rather, it has retroactively changed the meaning of “lifetime” in the warranty, essentially telling people
“Nope, we’ve decided that the lifetime of your product is over.”posted by blueberry at 8:36 AM on February 9, 2016
Lodge makes an excellent enameled Dutch oven for less than half the cost of Le Crueset that we have talked about before.
Not only that, but Lodge also has a lifetime guarantee. I had one that got weird stains on the enamel (which, uh, may or may not be because someone left baked macaroni and cheese in the pan way, way too long and it got moldy and the enamel went OH HEL NO). They replaced it no questions asked and paid for shipping. And it's probably good that they didn't ask questions, because I'm not sure I would have answered honestly.
I'd have to recommend Dualit toasters, Zojirushi water boilers & rice cookers, and Griswold cast iron pans (if you can find them)
I'm going to have to do my thing here and mention that Griswold is great, but so are Wagner Ware, Lodge, and Birmingham Stove & Range -- all of the American manufacturers (1960s and earlier, or pre-war, depending on how serious you are) made great stuff that will last a lifetime, or even several lifetimes, because they can be brought back to life after abuse. A lot of it isn't marked with the maker's name, but if you're armed with knowledge you can i.d. them yourself and get them for a song. Identification guide here.
posted by mudpuppie at 9:05 AM on February 9, 2016 [3 favorites]
Not only that, but Lodge also has a lifetime guarantee. I had one that got weird stains on the enamel (which, uh, may or may not be because someone left baked macaroni and cheese in the pan way, way too long and it got moldy and the enamel went OH HEL NO). They replaced it no questions asked and paid for shipping. And it's probably good that they didn't ask questions, because I'm not sure I would have answered honestly.
I'd have to recommend Dualit toasters, Zojirushi water boilers & rice cookers, and Griswold cast iron pans (if you can find them)
I'm going to have to do my thing here and mention that Griswold is great, but so are Wagner Ware, Lodge, and Birmingham Stove & Range -- all of the American manufacturers (1960s and earlier, or pre-war, depending on how serious you are) made great stuff that will last a lifetime, or even several lifetimes, because they can be brought back to life after abuse. A lot of it isn't marked with the maker's name, but if you're armed with knowledge you can i.d. them yourself and get them for a song. Identification guide here.
posted by mudpuppie at 9:05 AM on February 9, 2016 [3 favorites]
The funny thing with the notion of computer lifespan is that my thirty-five-year-old Apple ][ plus works perfectly, though I preemptively replaced the electrolytic capacitors in the power supply so as not to fry my the shiny new CFFA card I got so I could use flash memory instead of clunky old 5.25" disks. My Commodore 64 and 128 both work, as well, my Kaypro II is still a joy for writing, my complete Apple //c system with funky little monitor on a funky little stand designed by the eighties-fabulous Hartmut Esslinger is still aces, and my NEC JB 1205mA amber monitor is still going strong. My NEC PC-8201 and Epson Geneva PX-8 proto-laptops work fine, too, as well as a small flotilla of compact Macs, though something's died in the CRT section of my SE/30, so it may be down for the count.
The machines still work, the applications they were meant to perform still work, but we've revised our view.
The hardware has successfully lasted and remained functional throughout, which brings another issue to mind. These things continue to do what they were bought to do, though mechanical disk drives impose the biggest lifespan problem, barring the scarcity of viable magnetic media, which is why I stocked up on double density 3.5" disks for my twenty-seven-year-old Ensoniq EPS, which is still operational and sounds great, but contains one non-standard disk drive, a handful of brilliantly designed ASICs from a dead company, and a custom vacuum fluorescent display, none of which can be replaced without cannibalizing other instruments.
It's not entirely hard to make tech that will last forever. My tiny mid-sixties console television set works fairly well, and is hilarious, because they basically built it and its brethren to look like very small and functional versions of large consoles so that salesmen could sell people on the Mediterranean Deluxe Cabinet With Custom Antiqued Brass Handles in small TV shops without the floorspace for the real thing, but there are no more signals for that television, and never will be. It looks great on stage as the heaviest white noise module for a synthesizer, though. My two Tandberg reel-to-reel decks work well, too, and I keep them maintained largely in cosmic fidelity to the fact that they, a splice block, and my Panasonic shortwave radio were the first musical instruments that spoke to me, but playing anything on them is a showy affair that is just a showy affair without any specific advantages than that it makes it look like the early drummer from either OMD or the Cocteau Twins is jamming at my house.
It's more interesting, in a way, to ponder where we go in the explosion of little wonders like the Raspberry Pi, which are good enough to basic things without having to be superb generalists. Does the nanocomputing market crawl ever upwards with feature bloat, along with the old generalized computing model, or are things in their niche appropriate to their niche, and capable of evolving to a relatively fixed state?
posted by sonascope at 10:46 AM on February 9, 2016 [7 favorites]
The machines still work, the applications they were meant to perform still work, but we've revised our view.
The hardware has successfully lasted and remained functional throughout, which brings another issue to mind. These things continue to do what they were bought to do, though mechanical disk drives impose the biggest lifespan problem, barring the scarcity of viable magnetic media, which is why I stocked up on double density 3.5" disks for my twenty-seven-year-old Ensoniq EPS, which is still operational and sounds great, but contains one non-standard disk drive, a handful of brilliantly designed ASICs from a dead company, and a custom vacuum fluorescent display, none of which can be replaced without cannibalizing other instruments.
It's not entirely hard to make tech that will last forever. My tiny mid-sixties console television set works fairly well, and is hilarious, because they basically built it and its brethren to look like very small and functional versions of large consoles so that salesmen could sell people on the Mediterranean Deluxe Cabinet With Custom Antiqued Brass Handles in small TV shops without the floorspace for the real thing, but there are no more signals for that television, and never will be. It looks great on stage as the heaviest white noise module for a synthesizer, though. My two Tandberg reel-to-reel decks work well, too, and I keep them maintained largely in cosmic fidelity to the fact that they, a splice block, and my Panasonic shortwave radio were the first musical instruments that spoke to me, but playing anything on them is a showy affair that is just a showy affair without any specific advantages than that it makes it look like the early drummer from either OMD or the Cocteau Twins is jamming at my house.
It's more interesting, in a way, to ponder where we go in the explosion of little wonders like the Raspberry Pi, which are good enough to basic things without having to be superb generalists. Does the nanocomputing market crawl ever upwards with feature bloat, along with the old generalized computing model, or are things in their niche appropriate to their niche, and capable of evolving to a relatively fixed state?
posted by sonascope at 10:46 AM on February 9, 2016 [7 favorites]
as a counter-point, our two apple disk drives both went bad (not at the same time, mind you) around 84-86, motors and alignment and weren't fixable. After eating a few disks (it could read/boot, but if you saved something, bye-bye disk), we got a kaypro.
posted by k5.user at 12:20 PM on February 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by k5.user at 12:20 PM on February 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
The lady on the phone surprised me and said "Yes ma'am, those products are guaranteed for life. We'd be happy to replace them. Please send us the original receipt."
Well certainly. Without the receipt how could you possibly demonstrate that the product is currently occupying the time in between original manufacture and the end of time?
(it is possible I have had a similar discussion in a Macys that spent a lot of time in territory that I would have more expected to be something in a Philosophy 101 class than a retail store...)
posted by phearlez at 12:49 PM on February 9, 2016 [8 favorites]
Well certainly. Without the receipt how could you possibly demonstrate that the product is currently occupying the time in between original manufacture and the end of time?
(it is possible I have had a similar discussion in a Macys that spent a lot of time in territory that I would have more expected to be something in a Philosophy 101 class than a retail store...)
posted by phearlez at 12:49 PM on February 9, 2016 [8 favorites]
The rough thing about electronics is that you don't realize how well made it was until it is outdated. And not a lot of people have the ability to use old computer equipment, no matter how functional. I've got these Dell Latitude d610s that I could use to pound in a fence post but no one wants them because they've got Linux cooties (I refuse to even give away machines with XP on them.)
posted by charred husk at 12:58 PM on February 9, 2016
posted by charred husk at 12:58 PM on February 9, 2016
Timberlands are nice but I prefer my Chippewas.
I like the idea of the site, most times when I want to purchase something of high-quality, american made products I waste hours on sites like www.americanproductlinksthatworkedin2003bestviewedwithIE5.com. From the about, its clear this is a passion project done late at night. I do hope it evolves into a more thoughtful and robust site.
For men's clothing and beautiful, quality products, see also: Well Spent
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 3:21 PM on February 9, 2016
I like the idea of the site, most times when I want to purchase something of high-quality, american made products I waste hours on sites like www.americanproductlinksthatworkedin2003bestviewedwithIE5.com. From the about, its clear this is a passion project done late at night. I do hope it evolves into a more thoughtful and robust site.
For men's clothing and beautiful, quality products, see also: Well Spent
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 3:21 PM on February 9, 2016
That said, this post feels rather pepsi blue :(
Aw, don't feel blue! As you can see if you bother to look for twelve seconds, my projects go in Projects, rather than on the Blue , and have no business plan at all to question.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 7:22 PM on February 9, 2016
Aw, don't feel blue! As you can see if you bother to look for twelve seconds, my projects go in Projects, rather than on the Blue , and have no business plan at all to question.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 7:22 PM on February 9, 2016
As I am entering the second half of my life, I've become preoccupied with possessions that will outlive me, having the perspective to appreciate the craftsmanship of longevity and the means to invest upfront for objects that will in the long run be cheaper and more useful by virtue of the fact that they are well made. I think in your 20s you buy things that seem nice because of the immediate gratification in their use but in your 40s you've accumulated a bunch of cheap broken crap and you really appreciate that which has remained useful through school, world travel, countless moves, marriage, children, a few life crises and perhaps a natural disaster or two. I suppose it's all materialism in the end, but there is a joy in the daily use of reliable well crafted objects. I take pride in my own work, in pouring my training and experience in delivering a product from my heart that is appreciated by others, and in my appreciation of quality long lasting objects, I recognize and connect with the labor of others. After reading this post this morning (and sadly, this website is not so much about quality as it is about generous guarantee and return policies) I spent the day contemplating the things I use daily which will continue to bring useful satisfaction over the coming decades. Many of these things were purchased or handed down used with previous stories before me:
Merkur Heavy safety razor
Baxter shaving brush
Kent of England hand cut comb
Tag Heuer Aquaracer Automatic watch
Tiffany titanium ring selected by my children one Father's Day
Oh, the shoes, my shoes will last forever -- Red Wing Iron Rangers, 20 year old $25 Blundstone boots brought back from Australia, 25 year old LL Bean duck boots given to me by my mother when I moved out, and the Alden wing tips which I will be buried in.
2 perfectly fitting Brooks Brothers Blazers
Gloverall Duffle Coat
Schott Cafe Racer leather
Lodge cast iron skillet
Kitchen aid accolade stand mixer
Cuisanart food processor
Marantz tube amplifier/receiver
Martin dreadnaught guitar
70s era Japanese Strat
Tumi soft briefcase which stood up to years of abuse with no wear, recently replaced by Tumi backpack which is better for bike commuting and is of equal quality
Wustof knife set
Trusty Victorinox Swiss Army knife
Rawlings baseball glove I've used since Little League
We live in a mass produced consumer wasteland and I have my fair share of stuff passing through my home on the way to the landfill. The less of that I touch and the more objects I have that become worn and molded by my personal use, the better I have lived.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 10:35 PM on February 9, 2016 [3 favorites]
Merkur Heavy safety razor
Baxter shaving brush
Kent of England hand cut comb
Tag Heuer Aquaracer Automatic watch
Tiffany titanium ring selected by my children one Father's Day
Oh, the shoes, my shoes will last forever -- Red Wing Iron Rangers, 20 year old $25 Blundstone boots brought back from Australia, 25 year old LL Bean duck boots given to me by my mother when I moved out, and the Alden wing tips which I will be buried in.
2 perfectly fitting Brooks Brothers Blazers
Gloverall Duffle Coat
Schott Cafe Racer leather
Lodge cast iron skillet
Kitchen aid accolade stand mixer
Cuisanart food processor
Marantz tube amplifier/receiver
Martin dreadnaught guitar
70s era Japanese Strat
Tumi soft briefcase which stood up to years of abuse with no wear, recently replaced by Tumi backpack which is better for bike commuting and is of equal quality
Wustof knife set
Trusty Victorinox Swiss Army knife
Rawlings baseball glove I've used since Little League
We live in a mass produced consumer wasteland and I have my fair share of stuff passing through my home on the way to the landfill. The less of that I touch and the more objects I have that become worn and molded by my personal use, the better I have lived.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 10:35 PM on February 9, 2016 [3 favorites]
In line with sonascope's offering above, I've always been mildly interested in finding a website that identifies repairable items. I understand that repairing instead of replacing is a bit of a niche interest these days -- not many people are going to have the enthusiasm and skills to replace the brushes in a 75 year old oscillating fan -- but there are some of us who are interested in that.
Madame President's Sears-brand vacuum cleaner recently died, and it seemed likely from the circumstances that it had a blown fuse. But I had to disassemble the entire beast and cut out and replace an inline, non-replaceable fuse to get it working again. It probably would have cost a dollar more to build it with a replaceable fuse, but that's just not a priority, and I can understand that thinking. But it would be nice to have a website that identifies items that aren't put together with tamper-proof screws and glue, and use parts that you can reasonably source and replace. Maybe even items that have free & accessible repair manuals and schematics, although that's probably a pipe dream.
posted by srt19170 at 7:45 AM on February 10, 2016
Madame President's Sears-brand vacuum cleaner recently died, and it seemed likely from the circumstances that it had a blown fuse. But I had to disassemble the entire beast and cut out and replace an inline, non-replaceable fuse to get it working again. It probably would have cost a dollar more to build it with a replaceable fuse, but that's just not a priority, and I can understand that thinking. But it would be nice to have a website that identifies items that aren't put together with tamper-proof screws and glue, and use parts that you can reasonably source and replace. Maybe even items that have free & accessible repair manuals and schematics, although that's probably a pipe dream.
posted by srt19170 at 7:45 AM on February 10, 2016
Also, if you don't mind visiting a hive of scum and villainy, there's r/buyitforlife. Haven't spent much time there so I don't know how good it is but it seems active.
posted by charred husk at 8:40 AM on February 10, 2016
posted by charred husk at 8:40 AM on February 10, 2016
The rough thing about electronics is that you don't realize how well made it was until it is outdated. And not a lot of people have the ability to use old computer equipment, no matter how functional. I've got these Dell Latitude d610s that I could use to pound in a fence post but no one wants them because they've got Linux cooties (I refuse to even give away machines with XP on them.)
The thing is, CPU power hasn't really gone up all that much. Single core between a 2600 and an 6600 is maybe 30% at best. That's four years of performance increases. You stick the maximum RAM and a flash drive on anything circa-2010 or later and it'll still fly.
posted by Talez at 12:44 PM on February 10, 2016
The thing is, CPU power hasn't really gone up all that much. Single core between a 2600 and an 6600 is maybe 30% at best. That's four years of performance increases. You stick the maximum RAM and a flash drive on anything circa-2010 or later and it'll still fly.
posted by Talez at 12:44 PM on February 10, 2016
You stick the maximum RAM and a flash drive on anything circa-2010 or later and it'll still fly.
Max RAM on a non-trivial number of things is 4 GB which is about enough for Chrome to get out of bed, but won't do much more. Yes, you don't have to use Chrome.
But more seriously, IO speed. GPUs, USB 3, Thunderbolt, etc. UBS 2 hard drives suck. PCs are still just catching up to reasonable external IO speeds.
posted by GuyZero at 12:53 PM on February 10, 2016
Max RAM on a non-trivial number of things is 4 GB which is about enough for Chrome to get out of bed, but won't do much more. Yes, you don't have to use Chrome.
But more seriously, IO speed. GPUs, USB 3, Thunderbolt, etc. UBS 2 hard drives suck. PCs are still just catching up to reasonable external IO speeds.
posted by GuyZero at 12:53 PM on February 10, 2016
Max RAM on a non-trivial number of things is 4 GB which is about enough for Chrome to get out of bed, but won't do much more. Yes, you don't have to use Chrome.
All of the Intel chipsets post-2008 support 8GB of RAM at the minimum. The last mobile chipset that only supported 4GB was the GS40 circa September 2008.
posted by Talez at 2:28 PM on February 10, 2016
All of the Intel chipsets post-2008 support 8GB of RAM at the minimum. The last mobile chipset that only supported 4GB was the GS40 circa September 2008.
posted by Talez at 2:28 PM on February 10, 2016
There were still machines on the edge - I have a 2009 Mac Mini that maxes out at 3.5 and an AMD machine that's slightly newer that only addresses 3.75 or some strange number.
But yes, 8 GB ought to be enough RAM for anyone.
posted by GuyZero at 2:31 PM on February 10, 2016
But yes, 8 GB ought to be enough RAM for anyone.
posted by GuyZero at 2:31 PM on February 10, 2016
> Oh, the shoes, my shoes will last forever -- Red Wing Iron Rangers, 20 year old $25 Blundstone boots brought back from Australia, 25 year old LL Bean duck boots given to me by my mother when I moved out, and the Alden wing tips which I will be buried in.
Having had four pairs of Blundstones blow out on me, three of them in the past nine months, I'd set my expectations low on lifetime use. Some cobblers can replace the soles with Vibram near-matches, but it changes the fit and feel and appearance, pretty much negating every reason I had for buying them.
posted by ardgedee at 5:54 PM on February 10, 2016
Having had four pairs of Blundstones blow out on me, three of them in the past nine months, I'd set my expectations low on lifetime use. Some cobblers can replace the soles with Vibram near-matches, but it changes the fit and feel and appearance, pretty much negating every reason I had for buying them.
posted by ardgedee at 5:54 PM on February 10, 2016
I've been looking for a laptop backpack that will last forever. The Saddleback just doesn't have the form factor I'm looking for.
Chrome bags.
The one my friend got in high school and traded me is still perfectly fine. No frays or anything. As is the single-strap one i traded her for it. I bought my partner a brand new one a few years back and the quality is still right there(a strap tensioner broke a day or two into using it and they shipped it back to themselves, fixed it, and shipped it back VERY quickly. perfect since then, and it seemed like it was just defective metal o_0).
I have put that bag through so much shit. Everything from the serving suggestion from their stock photos of using it as a cooler to hauling 3 peoples overnight bags worth of stuff + music gear + booze on a trip out of town(it weighed something like 50lbs loaded) absolutely packed to the gills. I've hosed it out in my bathtub numerous times, had it get soaked in the rain externally, covered in everything from mud to playa dust... Best bag ever. I'll likely have it for the rest of my life.
Max RAM on a non-trivial number of things is 4 GB which is about enough for Chrome to get out of bed, but won't do much more. Yes, you don't have to use Chrome.
I wish this meme would die. 4gb, or even 2gb of ram is more than enough for chrome. What WILL make chrome run like shit on that little ram is a hard drive. My work machine was the cheapest $30 small ssd, 2gb of ram(i tried to upgrade and it wouldn't boot with more than one stick in it... or any stick that wasn't that one) and an awful late-2000s celeron. It BLASTED through chrome.
I would much rather have an SSD than over 4gb of ram. My work machine now has an i7 and 8gb of ram and it feels so slow compared to the junky no-ram SSD machine.
Oh, the shoes, my shoes will last forever -- Red Wing Iron Rangers
Sadly, red wings are made like crap now. I have some of the nicest "heritage" ones and almost bought the iron ranger(the ones i have, forget the name, are basically the brogued version of those). They haven't really broken in or worn well, and the gandalf-like cobbler my dads been going to since he was a kid had a HUGE rant about how poorly made they are now, how so, and why.
I have no idea what else to buy new honestly. My old justin boots have lasted ridiculously long but the new ones are junk... ditto for a lot of other brands. Doc martins are especially garbage now. The ones i got after high school still barely look worn, and my partners fell apart in six months. And the store replaced them no questions asked with not much comment like it was a common issue.
I bought some adidas sambas in middle school and wore them all through high school and college. They STILL weren't ruined, and i only got rid of them because i spilled satans semen all over them and it wasn't coming off.
But the new ones? Fall apart in under a year. I recently proved my point by finding some borderline deadstock samba spezials at a thrift store... which have now survived the playa and a trip through an industrial washer with bleach after and aren't really worse for the wear at all.
I guess i see the point of a site like this even just specifically for shoes, because all shoes are crap now. I wish there was one that just reviewed fashionable or at least semi-fashionable pants, though...
posted by emptythought at 6:09 PM on February 10, 2016
Chrome bags.
The one my friend got in high school and traded me is still perfectly fine. No frays or anything. As is the single-strap one i traded her for it. I bought my partner a brand new one a few years back and the quality is still right there(a strap tensioner broke a day or two into using it and they shipped it back to themselves, fixed it, and shipped it back VERY quickly. perfect since then, and it seemed like it was just defective metal o_0).
I have put that bag through so much shit. Everything from the serving suggestion from their stock photos of using it as a cooler to hauling 3 peoples overnight bags worth of stuff + music gear + booze on a trip out of town(it weighed something like 50lbs loaded) absolutely packed to the gills. I've hosed it out in my bathtub numerous times, had it get soaked in the rain externally, covered in everything from mud to playa dust... Best bag ever. I'll likely have it for the rest of my life.
Max RAM on a non-trivial number of things is 4 GB which is about enough for Chrome to get out of bed, but won't do much more. Yes, you don't have to use Chrome.
I wish this meme would die. 4gb, or even 2gb of ram is more than enough for chrome. What WILL make chrome run like shit on that little ram is a hard drive. My work machine was the cheapest $30 small ssd, 2gb of ram(i tried to upgrade and it wouldn't boot with more than one stick in it... or any stick that wasn't that one) and an awful late-2000s celeron. It BLASTED through chrome.
I would much rather have an SSD than over 4gb of ram. My work machine now has an i7 and 8gb of ram and it feels so slow compared to the junky no-ram SSD machine.
Oh, the shoes, my shoes will last forever -- Red Wing Iron Rangers
Sadly, red wings are made like crap now. I have some of the nicest "heritage" ones and almost bought the iron ranger(the ones i have, forget the name, are basically the brogued version of those). They haven't really broken in or worn well, and the gandalf-like cobbler my dads been going to since he was a kid had a HUGE rant about how poorly made they are now, how so, and why.
I have no idea what else to buy new honestly. My old justin boots have lasted ridiculously long but the new ones are junk... ditto for a lot of other brands. Doc martins are especially garbage now. The ones i got after high school still barely look worn, and my partners fell apart in six months. And the store replaced them no questions asked with not much comment like it was a common issue.
I bought some adidas sambas in middle school and wore them all through high school and college. They STILL weren't ruined, and i only got rid of them because i spilled satans semen all over them and it wasn't coming off.
But the new ones? Fall apart in under a year. I recently proved my point by finding some borderline deadstock samba spezials at a thrift store... which have now survived the playa and a trip through an industrial washer with bleach after and aren't really worse for the wear at all.
I guess i see the point of a site like this even just specifically for shoes, because all shoes are crap now. I wish there was one that just reviewed fashionable or at least semi-fashionable pants, though...
posted by emptythought at 6:09 PM on February 10, 2016
I've recently developed an obsession with Frye boots (current prices for Blundstone chelseas are approaching $180, which makes the Frye 12R Engineer's Boot at $200 look like a good deal). Given as Frye has evolved into that most loathesome of modern corporations: A brand-managed marketing concern with scarves, bags, diverse seasonal fashion lines originating in contract factories in disparate parts of the globe, rather than just a factory somewhere that fucking just makes some shoes, and given that mine is a recent obsession, let it be noted for reference some decades hence that I plan to be pleasantly surprised if they lasted a long time, rather than shocked and upset if they didn't.
posted by ardgedee at 6:17 PM on February 10, 2016
posted by ardgedee at 6:17 PM on February 10, 2016
Old attaché and briefcases (from before the era of small mobile electronics) have to be retrofitted for a 15" laptop, assuming they're not too small
I eBay Coach bags from before production was moved to China and stick a small padded softcase in the center pocket.
I've had decent luck with Doc Marten's 'industrial' Ironbridge boot, recently. At least, so far so good.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:58 PM on February 10, 2016
I eBay Coach bags from before production was moved to China and stick a small padded softcase in the center pocket.
I've had decent luck with Doc Marten's 'industrial' Ironbridge boot, recently. At least, so far so good.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:58 PM on February 10, 2016
Having had four pairs of Blundstones blow out on me, three of them in the past nine months, I'd set my expectations low on lifetime use.
I don't know the deal with Blundstones now, but the ones I got 20 years ago have survived 4 Burning Mans (Burning Men?), 3 trips to India, 2 minor (major for me) construction projects, gardening every weekend of the summer for 20 years, several hundred camping trips, several thousand mosh pits, and one ill fated music tour of the PNW and they just now have a nice broken in look to them. In fact, I frequently wear them with a tie and chinos at work when I need a little extra ass-kicking confidence.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:23 PM on February 10, 2016
I don't know the deal with Blundstones now, but the ones I got 20 years ago have survived 4 Burning Mans (Burning Men?), 3 trips to India, 2 minor (major for me) construction projects, gardening every weekend of the summer for 20 years, several hundred camping trips, several thousand mosh pits, and one ill fated music tour of the PNW and they just now have a nice broken in look to them. In fact, I frequently wear them with a tie and chinos at work when I need a little extra ass-kicking confidence.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:23 PM on February 10, 2016
That sucks. I got my first pair about 14 years ago, so I must've fallen on the unlucky side of a recent production change.
Forgot to mention about Frye footwear that their staple products (the 12R, 10R, etc.) are still made in the US and seemingly untampered-with, so it's probably worth some research and attention to Amazon reviews, since there are lifelong Frye fans there watching the company like hawks.
posted by ardgedee at 4:33 AM on February 11, 2016
Forgot to mention about Frye footwear that their staple products (the 12R, 10R, etc.) are still made in the US and seemingly untampered-with, so it's probably worth some research and attention to Amazon reviews, since there are lifelong Frye fans there watching the company like hawks.
posted by ardgedee at 4:33 AM on February 11, 2016
a great idea but not sure that they have met my son !
posted by hindsjohn at 5:19 AM on February 15, 2016
posted by hindsjohn at 5:19 AM on February 15, 2016
The lady on the phone surprised me and said "Yes ma'am, those products are guaranteed for life. We'd be happy to replace them. Please send us the original receipt."
My cynicism meter doesn't know what to do. On the one hand, it's cool that they are putting on a nice show about lifetime guarantees, but on the other hand it's stupid that they think you're still going to have a receipt from 1963, because who does that? And if it's a "lifetime guarantee" then what does it matter who purchased it from where and at what time, isn't it enough that it exists? So really it doesn't have a lifetime guarantee. But at the same time I guess it kind of does because what if you did still have the half-century-old receipt and the ink on the paper hadn't faded away into nothingness? I don't even know what to believe any more.
posted by turbid dahlia at 4:44 PM on February 15, 2016
My cynicism meter doesn't know what to do. On the one hand, it's cool that they are putting on a nice show about lifetime guarantees, but on the other hand it's stupid that they think you're still going to have a receipt from 1963, because who does that? And if it's a "lifetime guarantee" then what does it matter who purchased it from where and at what time, isn't it enough that it exists? So really it doesn't have a lifetime guarantee. But at the same time I guess it kind of does because what if you did still have the half-century-old receipt and the ink on the paper hadn't faded away into nothingness? I don't even know what to believe any more.
posted by turbid dahlia at 4:44 PM on February 15, 2016
The pans are warranteed for the lifetime of the receipt, not the pan.
I mean, it has to be that way, right? Because by definition, when the pans no longer work they have have reached the end of their life. To warranty them for their own life would just be a tautology!
posted by phearlez at 12:34 PM on February 16, 2016
I mean, it has to be that way, right? Because by definition, when the pans no longer work they have have reached the end of their life. To warranty them for their own life would just be a tautology!
posted by phearlez at 12:34 PM on February 16, 2016
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posted by chesty_a_arthur at 8:02 PM on February 8, 2016 [4 favorites]