This is why we can't have nice things
February 18, 2016 9:01 AM   Subscribe

"After Taryn Wright exposed an elaborate fake tragedy on Facebook, she found herself leading a squad of online detectives – but on the internet, it doesn’t take long for a crowd to become a mob." (Guardian)
posted by Johnny Wallflower (104 comments total) 38 users marked this as a favorite
 
Absolutely fascinating. And yes , Kaycee is referenced.
posted by davidmsc at 9:17 AM on February 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


I wrote a book about hoaxes such as these about a decade ago, some that originated online, others through the traditional press, and in a case or two, it was a journalist who was a fake cancer patient.

Mostly, it is about the money, but some people confuse pity with kindness. Some people like to fool others as they indulge in their destructive fantasy life. Other times, the person is in a jam and uses submission to get themselves out. It is always a manipulative reason, even if it stems from mental illness or poor life skills. It is way of changing the surroundings to their benefit, from getting cash to attention because we tend to reward people who are vulnerable that way.

People do get angry when you question someone that is ill, but should the stricken be exposed as a fraud, the con is in for the surprise of his life. Both the person who is doing the exposing and the ones who get exposed will always be targets because they both threaten our beliefs in one form or another, and people do not like to entertain the notion they are wrong.

Skepticism is still necessary, and though you can feel compassion for the one faking the illness, they still have to go in with the assumption they are smart enough to fool all of the people all of the time and think nothing of playing people by means of deception and emotional exploitation.

Thank you for the interesting link.
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 9:22 AM on February 18, 2016 [32 favorites]


Excellent article, and I'm so glad that Taryn moved away from the lynch mob mentality. A certain level of compassion is needed here.

Although "Wright, a dark-haired woman with precisely arched eyebrows" - what the hell is that about? And the repeated references to her living at her parents' home? That IS her home. Ugh.
posted by widdershins at 9:23 AM on February 18, 2016 [21 favorites]


Here's more Kaycee Nicole history, for those who don't know and want more than a passing reference.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:23 AM on February 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


Although "Wright, a dark-haired woman with precisely arched eyebrows" - what the hell is that about? And the repeated references to her living at her parents' home? That IS her home. Ugh.

Sometimes journalists really want to be novelists, or are novelists who have failed to make money writing books and turn to journalism to pay the bills.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:25 AM on February 18, 2016 [16 favorites]


A relative of mine once had an employee fake cancer, apparently in order to skive off work whenever they wanted to. Unluckily for that employee, it was at the same time that another relative was actually undergoing cancer treatment, so it was clear that things were not adding up, and they were summarily fired.

I'll also add that it speaks well of the MetaFilter community that when things like this happen here, there is always a strong undercurrent of restraint and sympathy, even while we are appalled at the fraud.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:26 AM on February 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


I would feel better about this if she focused on scammers, rather than the larger group of fakes, many of whom, as admitted, are mentally ill.
posted by angrycat at 9:29 AM on February 18, 2016


She dealt with the depressing lack of autonomy and mobility as best she could – mostly by knitting and “doing paint-by-numbers like a serial killer”.

This is tangential to the story, but I am intrigued. What does it mean to do paint-by-numbers like a serial killer. Are serial killers known for doing paint-by-numbers frequently, or in a particular style that is different from the way most people do paint-by-numbers?
posted by layceepee at 9:45 AM on February 18, 2016 [15 favorites]


She even formed phone friendships with some of the hoaxers themselves, including a young woman in California named Jadzia, who had faked several pregnancies and one bout of cancer.

She also had a GoFundMe page to raise money for a trip to the Trill homeworld for her symbiote, which only garnered a few strips of gold-pressed latinum before being shut down.
posted by dr_dank at 9:46 AM on February 18, 2016 [34 favorites]


novelists who have failed to make money writing books and turn to journalism to pay the bills.

Oh god, the laughing. Stop, it hurts!
...
JOURNALISM! TO PAY THE BILLS!

Oh no, please, no. No more, I'm begging you.
...
I'm begging here...


More seriously, this is scary as hell.

Wright has not worked full-time since the blog took off. She has applied for plenty of jobs, but whenever she gets close there is a moment when her prospective boss gets a pained look and says something like, “So, we Googled you …”

The Internet is great, but it's also fucking insane and dangerous. I've never been so happy that my real name is so bog standard that I'm practically ungoogleable. I feel like I've been blessed somehow not to have to worry about stuff like this.
posted by Naberius at 9:48 AM on February 18, 2016 [32 favorites]


I'll also add that it speaks well of the MetaFilter community that when things like this happen here, there is always a strong undercurrent of restraint and sympathy, even while we are appalled at the fraud.
Really? I mean, sure, she was not a good thing for the site and was clearly a grifter, but looking back on it, a lot of the abuse aimed at u.n.owen reads as creepily misogynistic.
posted by Sonny Jim at 9:50 AM on February 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


It is amazing how, once people decide they believe something, it is like pulling teeth to get them to un-believe it, no matter how compelling the evidence.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:51 AM on February 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


Although "Wright, a dark-haired woman with precisely arched eyebrows" - what the hell is that about?

A short description of the subject? I don’t remember the last time I read an article like this without one.

And the repeated references to her living at her parents' home? That IS her home. Ugh.

The obvious question is "who has time to do this?" The author lets us know that she lives with her parents, had medical problems, and doesn’t have a job in the nicest way.

I’m not sure how it would be better to say "I’m going to tell you this story, but I’m not going to tell you anything about the person who’s the subject of it".

Fascinating story. I just can’t imagine keeping up that level of participation. At least she seems to have a somewhat healthy perspective on it.

(A few years ago, she and her sister pledged to stop bringing up the Jonestown mass suicide on first dates.)

Best part of the story.
posted by bongo_x at 9:59 AM on February 18, 2016 [25 favorites]


I would file this under "People are the worst" but that cabinet is overflowing, spewing files into every corner of the fileroom in which it is housed, spreading out onto the street like The Blob, forever growing and consuming everything in its path.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:00 AM on February 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


some group members were out for blood.
#mobgoals
posted by generalist at 10:10 AM on February 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


I had this happen to me, recently, to a certain degree.

As a side-hobby, I make indie nail polish and sell it online. I've been surprisingly successful at it, and had started to get to know several other high-profile makers over the past three years. One of the makers centered her entire business 'theme' around her passion of mountain climbing. She named all her polishes after mountains. She was also dealing with cancer that came and went. It was all rather vague, and she didn't like to really get into the nitty gritty of the cancer, as she was private and didn't want to be pitied.

I didn't get the brunt of her lies, but several other women did. However, we would talk on the phone, and she actually visited twice when in Chicago on business (she was an interpreter). Apparently her family had come over to the US as refugees when she was a child? Oh, she was quite the character. She would tell you these stories like someone who was...actually telling the truth. No doubt she half-believed her own lies when she really got into her stories.

So when the other makers who were closer to her got suspicious and started to dig, it all came apart. One of them messaged me on facebook to tell me she had lied about cancer. The thing was...I didn't feel remotely surprised. I had already had niggling thoughts of 'what if this turned out to be fake?' So obviously SOME part of me felt something was off. The part that did shock me, though, was that everything ELSE was a lie as well. Never climbed a mountain in her life, or traveled like she claimed. No refugee. Not even an interpreter. Just a 30-something Minnesotan spinning lies for no apparent benefit.

I've kinda shrugged it off, but I know it's really hit some of the other women really hard, as they were much closer to her and considered her to be a true friend. I am mostly annoyed and how she hurt them, and that she would manipulate us so that we never really talked to each other. It was safer for her that way.

The good thing to come out of it is that we have all gotten closer and I've come to know these other vibrant, creative, successful small-business owners in a way I never would have.
posted by Windigo at 10:14 AM on February 18, 2016 [24 favorites]


Oh! And the battiest thing is, when she was called out on it by a couple of the people who were closest to her (calmly and with concern), she called the police and told them she was being harassed. The police....were not amused by her.
posted by Windigo at 10:16 AM on February 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


On the internet, nobody knows you're not a dog with cancer.
posted by hippybear at 10:27 AM on February 18, 2016 [17 favorites]


Never climbed a mountain in her life, or traveled like she claimed. No refugee. Not even an interpreter. Just a 30-something Minnesotan spinning lies for no apparent benefit.

These days, when the brand story is the personal story is everything, we're only going to see more of these kind of people. You say "no benefit" but when you take away the mountain-climbing story you've only got another random indy polish-maker.
posted by praemunire at 10:31 AM on February 18, 2016 [13 favorites]


These things can get dodgy. A friend of mine moved to the town where I live from Toronto with her boyfriend of 6 months or so. Things quickly went south, breakup. He staged an elaborate moving hoax on Facebook, even though he didn't move, just to fuck with her head and basically stalk her locally. The police had to go down to his place of work to tell him to stop, there were restraining orders etc.

It got ugly.
posted by jimmythefish at 10:35 AM on February 18, 2016


Wright, a dark-haired woman with precisely arched eyebrows

Glad to see I wasn't the only one derailed by that line. WTF do her eyebrows have to do with the story?
posted by slipthought at 10:40 AM on February 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


JOURNALISM! TO PAY THE BILLS!

Oh no, please, no. No more, I'm begging you.


I wrote that knowing at least one journalism student who wanted to make money as an author, but failing to even get short stories accepted to small publications, relied on their journalism degree. They're not living a lush life, but it's a reliable job with benefits in a way that selling books and stories is not.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:41 AM on February 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


That's very true praemunire. When you market something like cosmetics a large part of it is aspirational. People did think she was worldly and exciting, and wanted to drop $9 on her product because she was cool and mysterious (which to be fair, she is/was very good at making polish). She wasn't urban, so she didn't fill my 'hipster graphic designer living in the big city who also makes polish' niche, for example, unless she lied. She wasn't personable and friendly, which several other of the very popular indy makers are, drawing fans to them through charisma and charm. She wasn't creative with her marketing, which pulls fans/customers in through several other markets. She made very solid polish, but was withdrawn and didn't have an exciting way to 'brand' without lying.

But when it came to the personal, no, she didn't benefit. She would have been accepted by the clique without her tales of travel and mountains and cancer. All that she ultimately was left with was a much smaller fan-base and being ostracized by the huge majority of the makers, suppliers, and beauty bloggers in the community.
posted by Windigo at 10:42 AM on February 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


You know, I actually really feel for this article. It had to be..oh, several years ago now...that I was involved with the online gaming community. There was an important person there in a position of power that supposedly had a lot of medical problems, including heart attacks at really convenient times, and an interlocking web of relationships between several characters that were all super-perfect that all seemed to be her. So, naturally, I and some other players and staffers got involved in investigating this, and found out that, yes, it was all two women who lived together, and had pretty sad lives, and the heart attacks were faked to get out of being confronted, and their manipulating to make their characters overpowered was because their lives were sad.

But, partially maybe because it had affected people's characters that they cared about, it didn't really end there. People still were hunting down photos of these people in real life and posting them, talking about how heavy they were, how dirty their apartment was, how bad their taste in clothing was, and it all felt really gross. Like we just wanted to expose the lies, and now these people were going to be immortalized on the internet for their kind of shabby lives, and it was just...I don't know. Ugly. I think it had a lot to do with why I eventually stopped being involved there. Once the mob smells blood, you can't turn it off. This was over ten years ago, and I just googled it, and found that people are still, very recently, talking about them and how they are "awful fat girls" and I just want to kind of set the world on fire.
posted by corb at 10:43 AM on February 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


So I got a little suspicious, did a little digging, and now - having performed visual analysis on two separate images - can only conclude that Taryn Wright does *not* in fact have precisely arched eyebrows, and now I just don't know what to believe.
posted by forallmankind at 10:43 AM on February 18, 2016 [33 favorites]


Although "Wright, a dark-haired woman with precisely arched eyebrows" - what the hell is that about?

A short description of the subject? I don’t remember the last time I read an article like this without one.


Sure, it happens a lot. It's still kinda pointless here, given that there's a big picture of her and her dark hair and eyebrows at the top of the story.
posted by Etrigan at 10:45 AM on February 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


Although "Wright, a dark-haired woman with precisely arched eyebrows"

also...from the picture in the article, the writer's definition of precisely arched and mine are sooooo not the same.
posted by teleri025 at 10:47 AM on February 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


Yeah I was expecting Cruella DeVille.
posted by Lyme Drop at 10:51 AM on February 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


The author knew that one thing the reading public can't stand is a hoax buster with imprecisely arched eyebrows.
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:00 AM on February 18, 2016 [22 favorites]


Are serial killers known for doing paint-by-numbers frequently, or in a particular style that is different from the way most people do paint-by-numbers?

Clowns. They always paint clowns.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:00 AM on February 18, 2016 [10 favorites]


I saw the picture at the top, and then later when I read the "precisely-arched eyebrows" line, I scrolled back up because I didn't remember her eyebrows being particularly noticeable.
posted by kevinbelt at 11:04 AM on February 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


Serial killers are particularly maticulous. It's paint by numbers where going over the line means DEATH by a thousand tiny brushstrokes.
posted by AlexiaSky at 11:10 AM on February 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


Now I'm worried she'll read this and think we have a problem with her eyebrows. They are nice eyebrows, just not particularly arched. The right amount of arching; not too little and not too much.

Also, why should we even care?
posted by Area Man at 11:10 AM on February 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


This woman deserves a SuperPac. I know that portions of the Internet are violently anti-doxxing but done by a brave, emphatic and thoughtful investigator it is a kind of Justice. We out here in the Wild West right now and it's time to start turning the lynch mobs of Internet commenters into formal processes--team of rule bringing Athenas who hunt the scammers, the harassers, the astroturfers, and the frauds and judge them. The alternative is to just keep abiding by hivemind rule, which can be cruel, capricious and reactionary. We need more of this.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:15 AM on February 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


I know this is about a slightly different breed of hoax, namely health hoaxes about individuals, but at one particularly bad moment on my timeline I had a brief thought about taking a day off and just - running every story my friends were sharing through Snopes. Or googling it. And commenting with the results. Because more than half* of the stories on FB: cute, bad, good, indifferent, "inspiring," or what-all, when you scratch the surface are just -- made up. And made up in a way that is not like the gossip game, or just embellished - it just didn't happen.

So I thought about doing all that work, and all the people who would unfriend me as a result.

Still kinda wish I had done it.



*okay, I made that statistic up. But my anecdata suggest it.
posted by randomkeystrike at 11:16 AM on February 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


It's paint by numbers ...

It's murder-by-numbers ...
posted by octobersurprise at 11:16 AM on February 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


one, two, three
It's as easy to learn as your ABC's
posted by Naberius at 11:18 AM on February 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


I figured that maybe Taryn Wright actively arches her eyebrows for effect during conversations, and the author was awkwardly trying to gesture toward that mannerism.

Yet again, we need Harry Potter style moving images to go along with our journalism.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 11:24 AM on February 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


In the physical world I've met people who turn out to be fictional creations, but they've always been men and their fake identities have always been fabulous (models, minor royalty, ex-lovers of famous people). The Munchausen by internet people seem to be mostly women. I wonder if these are mirror images of the same disease?
posted by kanewai at 11:35 AM on February 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


What you don't see much of is people pretending to have moderately lousy lives. Faking neither cancer nor fabulousness, but stagnant careers, unfulfilling relationships, and the resulting ennui.
posted by Area Man at 11:40 AM on February 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


A friend of mine did meet a guy in a convenience store who told her at length about his second job as a nightclub bouncer... in Second Life.

Maybe being a nightclub bouncer is glamourous when you live in the middle of nowhere.
posted by subdee at 11:54 AM on February 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


The husband occasionally collaborates with a woman who, I know beyond doubt, is a cancer faker. He doesn't give her money, but other people do. I don't know any of those folks, though, and she's known them for years, and apparently they believe her story although it falls apart the minute you ask questions. Though maybe they don't and are giving money because she is kind of pitiful overall.

So I finally had to shrug a little; she's not making huge bank, I don't deal with her directly, and she's not harming me. But it does bug me, on occasion.

(the husband and I Do Not talk about it anymore; he was taken in by her at first, until I started asking questions, and he never gave her money or anything, but it bothered him that he hadn't spotted it. It's a sore subject. I feel like it's his business. She, having a sure instinct for these things when her attempts to suck up to me didn't bear any fruit, calls and works with him a lot less and has mostly found other pals to tell her stories to.)
posted by emjaybee at 11:54 AM on February 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


Yet again, we need Harry Potter style moving images to go along with our journalism.

Isn't that what gifs are?
posted by slipthought at 11:58 AM on February 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


From the article: “If the parent doesn’t mind their Ps and Qs 100%, or is kind of a hillbilly and gets into screaming matches online, they’ll start Facebook groups like, Ban Hope for Jayden”

What is striking to me about a lot of online backlash-type rhetoric is how angry people are when someone has the nerve to not to hew to the cultural norms of the "minivan majority." The most vicious class policing I've seen are in Internet mobs that really hate when people are happy living and behaving in ways that challenge or ignore their own norms.

(Am Googling now for a decent explanation of the minivan majority. There used to be a brilliant analysis here -- http://annehelenpetersen.wordpress.com/2009/06/11/the-minivan-majority/ -- but the page is no longer live and not available via Wayback Machine.)
posted by sobell at 12:05 PM on February 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


The internet often reminds me of the many, many scenes on The Simpsons where all it takes is one remark (usually at the town hall) to get the whole city riled up and sometimes literally brandishing pitchforks and torches, and then whatever the issue is blows over and everyone just wanders off and forgets it.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:11 PM on February 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


The minivan majority word you are looking for is deviance in sociological circles.
posted by AlexiaSky at 12:17 PM on February 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


A friend of mine did meet a guy in a convenience store who told her at length about his second job as a nightclub bouncer... in Second Life.

I emcee trivia nights a couple nights a week, and once a tow truck driver had to pick me up when my car broke down after a show. He asked about the sound system in the car and I simply said I was a DJ, since that's easier to explain than "trivia host" and for the rest of the ride I got to hear about his second job as a Second Life disk jockey. It was ... weird.
posted by yhbc at 12:17 PM on February 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


In my life I have met a lot of people who have some kind of health issue, where it's hard to discern exactly how much of it is serious, and how much of it is that person wearing illness as a costume because they think it makes them interesting. I think a lot of people are somewhere in between. I have also met stoics, and people who are perhaps making a show of being stoic because they think THAT makes them interesting.

Personally I take the approach that the only time I ever truly know how much pain someone feels, is when that person is me. For the rest, I choose to take their stated feelings at face value. I have to live with myself after my interactions with them, and what kind of person do I want to be? Those people need something, and compassion is what I have to give, so compassion is what they get. Is there really a shortage of compassion?

But I try not to get too emotionally involved in the health sagas of people I never met.
posted by elizilla at 12:18 PM on February 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


Is Second Life still a thing? I've never looked at it because First Life has kept me pretty wrapped up so far.
posted by Devils Rancher at 12:27 PM on February 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


But I try not to get too emotionally involved in the health sagas of people I never met

This is the best strategy, I think. So much can be solved by simply refraining from engaging to closely online unless there is some kind of in-person connection.

I remember a commenter on a few blogs I used to frequent who had a slew of health problems and non-neurotypical conditions that seemed pretty much tailored for the issues that the various blogs would discuss, in the sense that they would drum up controversy when he mentioned them. It SEEMED fake, but I had no desire to try to "out" him as fake, nor did I really engage with him, because it wasn't worth my time and energy-- he was just a pseudonym in a comments section, after all.

But that doesn't help anyone else: fakers/hoaxers prey on the people online who are looking for a personal/emotional connection.
posted by deanc at 12:41 PM on February 18, 2016


What you don't see much of is people pretending to have moderately lousy lives.

You've obviously never seen my Facebook page, then. That persona is an old, out-of-shape married guy who rants about things he has no power to change, whereas in actuality I am the commander of the team that took out Scalia.

Wow, it feels so liberating to type that, even knowing I'm never going to post it. I'm so tired of secrets.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:02 PM on February 18, 2016 [21 favorites]


WTF how did that get posted? I hit preview I know I did. Shit. Mods, please delete the complete fabrication I poste above, thanks.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:10 PM on February 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


Everyone needs to encounter one compulsive liar and/or one con man early in their lives to give them a healthy dose of skepticism. Are there efforts being made to educate kids about scenarios like Kaycee Nicole?
posted by benzenedream at 1:24 PM on February 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


Once the mob gets riled up, it's really hard to de-escalate it without breaking it apart - which is what she did when she minimized the fb group. If you fan the flames instead, you get people spending years ranting about how people are fat and slobby and shabby. If you dump fuel and liquid oxygen on them, you get gamergate.
posted by rmd1023 at 1:32 PM on February 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


I too need to know more about these eyebrows. Is their arch parabolic? Catenary? Hyperbolic paraboloid? ARE WE TALKING NON-EUCLIDIAN EYEBROWS HERE. How can I be expected to immerse myself in the story if I don't have the mathematical function that describes her eyebrows.
posted by um at 1:43 PM on February 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


. So much can be solved by simply refraining from engaging to closely online unless there is some kind of in-person connection.

since the mid 90s some of my closest friends have been online. i can't even imagine how much poorer my life would have been if i had to physically look someone in the face to be friends with them. not to mention, people get scammed in person all the damn time...
posted by nadawi at 1:45 PM on February 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


MetaFilter: NON-EUCLIDIAN EYEBROWS
posted by hippybear at 1:54 PM on February 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


How do we know Metafilter is not someone's idea of a hoax?
posted by dov3 at 1:54 PM on February 18, 2016


I find it interesting how this is a typically female thing. The hoaxing and the backlash.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:55 PM on February 18, 2016


I'm not sure "typically female thing" is exactly the phrase you wanted to use, but I think we all understand what you are wanting to say.
posted by hippybear at 1:57 PM on February 18, 2016


What you don't see much of is people pretending to have moderately lousy lives. Faking neither cancer nor fabulousness, but stagnant careers, unfulfilling relationships, and the resulting ennui.

I actually do deliberately make my life a little dumber and weirder on social media than it truly is. SOMEONE has got to counteract the 50,000 pictures from Cabo and Venice and Puerto Rico and the enormous perfect houses and the genius children.

I don't think anyone would say it rises to the level of "hoax" though.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:02 PM on February 18, 2016


I just post pictures of my cats to fb. Pretty typical lesbain cat mom.

My tumblr on the other hand ...

Raymond Cisco
Pagan stuff
And Steven!

(But mostly pagan)
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:06 PM on February 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


I had a brief thought about taking a day off and just - running every story my friends were sharing through Snopes. Or googling it. And commenting with the results.

I used to do this all the time for the things my skepticism radar went off on (for people that I actually knew well and wouldn't take it too badly), but now most of my friends actually check if Mark Twain really said that thing before posting or if outrageous new story is being framed poorly for maximum outrage. There's so much bad stuff posted to Facebook that requires a simple fact check to disprove.
posted by john-a-dreams at 2:06 PM on February 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


However I do have hesitancy to post about my history with mental issues online due to their severity and personal impact. At one point attention/support and fiancial suppprt would have really really helped, and I met my wife through an online support forum. But even she didn't know some details until we met in person, because I didn't have the capacity to deal with people trying to figure out if I was a hoax or not.

Ay the time it was just a stressor I couldn't handle.

Now my life is boring, but I have a super hero backstory.

I worry about the impact when the mob gets it wrong.
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:14 PM on February 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


I've done pretty well avoiding scammers and fakers on the internet for the past twenty years, but we did have A Thing at my work last year with a guy faking being a veteran (among other less gun-centric lies.)

It was a little interesting, because I did see the angry mob mentality trying to form and did my best to defuse it where I could. And unlike my coworkers, I wasn't at all surprised when all this guy's lies were revealed - perhaps because I have zero emotional investment in almost anything told to me at work.
posted by Squeak Attack at 2:15 PM on February 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


Everyone needs to encounter one compulsive liar and/or one con man early in their lives to give them a healthy dose of skepticism.

I have met a couple pathological liars IRL, and everyone hips to their bullshit pretty quick, so I can see why the internet is an alluring way for them to drag out their thing that they do.

It's a weird illness and I feel really sorry for people who feel like they have to tell me things like "Oh, y'all are talking about tigers? My mom has 2 tigers in cages in her back yard." It ensaddens me when I encounter it because it's just baffling. It must be treatment-resistant due to its manifestations, I mean do compulsive liars tell the truth to their shrinks?
posted by Devils Rancher at 2:39 PM on February 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


Hi there, it's me, the nosy paint-by-number serial killer with precisely arched eyebrows :) Thanks to Johnny Wallflower for sending me the link to this discussion.

Yeah, not so sure where the eyebrow thing came from, but it's better than "Wright, a dark haired woman who at 37 is much too old to be sporting zits on her chin."

The paint-by-number comment was because I did so many of them during the two years I was stuck in bed at my parents' house. It was nice to put on headphones and just zone out. My mom (who is a very sweet person) would proudly display them on her mantel, and the collection grew and grew. You know that scene at the end of The Shining where Wendy picks up Jack's novel and sees the same sentence typed over and over again, and she suddenly realizes something is very very wrong with him? That's the type of feeling my paint-by-number display conveyed to visitors, I think.

Also, just to salvage a teeny bit of my pride, I had to live with my parents while going through rehab for my hip injury, but I've been back in my own home now for three years. And there are no paint-by-numbers to be found. Phew.
posted by TarynHarperWright at 2:42 PM on February 18, 2016 [134 favorites]


Welcome to MetaFilter, Taryn.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 2:45 PM on February 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


Welcome, Taryn! I hope you stick around. This is a pretty cool place, comments are moderated, people are friendly.
posted by domo at 2:51 PM on February 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


It's challenging not to contribute to the internet mob mentality. This morning there's a post going around FB out of Argentina, and it's rage inducing. I re-posted along with my angry comments, and then caught myself: I was contributing to the exact type of behavior that horrified me in this article, which I had just read five minutes before.

we did have A Thing at my work last year with a guy faking being a veteran

I forgot about the fake vets. Before the current series of wars it seemed every guy at the bar with a drinking problem claimed to have served in 'Nam. It reached satire stage when people in their 20's were claiming to be vets in a war that was over before they were born.

Fake gang members is also a thing.
posted by kanewai at 2:55 PM on February 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


Once, I was trying to describe someone to my son, in a "OK, it's that guy who..." way, and he interrupted me at some point with, "Mom, stop describing his eyebrows. I don't notice people's eyebrows that much."

I think it's because I have sad, wispy eyebrows, and I am bitterly envious of those who don't, but whatever the reason, I too am an eyebrow noticer.

You don't know what we're going through! I hope you all choke on your precise and sufficient eyebrows! Maybe that'll teach you not to take them for granted!
posted by ernielundquist at 2:57 PM on February 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


It must be treatment-resistant due to its manifestations, I mean do compulsive liars tell the truth to their shrinks?

During my own encounter with a compulsive liar, (and probable sociopath), I did a lot of reading and it sounded like compulsive lying is, indeed, highly treatment resistant due to that.
posted by mordax at 2:59 PM on February 18, 2016


I mean do compulsive liars tell the truth to their shrinks?

Nope.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:01 PM on February 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


I envy those of you who have multiple eyebrows as I am stuck with a unibrow. Or maybe stuck isn't the right word. I could wax in a break in the brow, but refuse to do so.

I've always been fascinated by the people who pretend in real life to have some sort of professional background they don't possess. There was an example in the Twin Cities in which someone pretending to be a lawyer was hired by a big, downtown firm. Apparently, her work product was terrible, but she managed to cover it up some by having an affair with the partner supervising her.
posted by Area Man at 3:02 PM on February 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


I've always been fascinated by the people who pretend in real life to have some sort of professional background they don't possess.

Our fake veteran was also trying to pull these shenanigans but someone checked up on his credentials and that's how the whole thing exploded.

There's another case I'm dealing with right now where the veteran status is currently unsubstantiated and I'm trying not to dismiss this second person too soon, based on experiences with the first guy.
posted by Squeak Attack at 3:39 PM on February 18, 2016


Oh, yeah. I was actually going to say something relevant before I got sidelined by eyebrow rage.

I have known a few people who have had some implausible number of unrelated dramas in their lives. Like, people who always seemed to be struggling with some big personal issue, one after another, where they were victims of something--disease, crime, some social drama of some sort, whatever.

And the one thing I think they had in common was that they HAD at some point had some real, verifiable tragic backstory, usually when they were children. Abuse, neglect, illness, something like that. Which makes me wonder if maybe there was just some point at which they'd been in the role of victim for long enough that it became a fundamental part of their personal identity and sense of worth. So maybe they're so used to being seen by others as a tragic figure that they can't conceive of someone valuing them for anything else. I mean, I honestly don't know, but the people I'm thinking of were basically good people who weren't trying to get money or anything like that. They were just a little bit off somehow.

Of course, I know they're probably not representative. I don't intentionally associate with actual jerks who try to defraud people, so my experiences aren't generalizable. And I totally understand why a lot of people would be really angry on discovering that someone was lying about something like that.

But man, that part about the video of the woman eating a candy bar really got to me.
posted by ernielundquist at 3:39 PM on February 18, 2016 [10 favorites]


If you're having trouble IDing a veteran, ask them what unit they were with or what their MOS was. Fake vets rarely have all the details worked out. It's not foolproof, but it works on about 80%.
posted by corb at 3:58 PM on February 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


But man, that part about the video of the woman eating a candy bar really got to me.

Me too.

And, from my experience, people who are creating these worlds for themselves just to get attention and accolades from strangers by pretending to be a brave person fighting an illness are not living happy lives. Sometimes I think it may be a manifestation of depression or something like that. They feel a real compulsion to do this, and according to Dr. Marc Feldman (who literally wrote the book on Munchausen by Internet), they'll close up shop when they're exposed as fake and later come back with a different character entirely.

Not that everyone on my blog shows characteristics of MBI; some are just using the internet as a tool to defraud and steal.
posted by TarynHarperWright at 4:05 PM on February 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


So much can be solved by simply refraining from engaging to closely online unless there is some kind of in-person connection.

But I did! She was in my home. She came to a party we threw, and spun her lies to oodles of people. I wonder now if she silently freaked out when I introduced her to people and brought up her mountain climbing.

Which reminds me of one of my favorite lies of hers. I had mentioned to her that I was casually acquainted with one of the creators of Cards Against Humanity - not friends, just someone I have friends in common with and whom I've socialized with before.

So when she's back home and chatting with some of the mutual makers we both knew, she told them I was such good friends, and we all hung out together with a whole bunch of the CaH folks, and they showed her card packs that they haven't released yet, and oh my gosh what a weird thing to lie about, right? On the grand scale of things, not huge, but just odd as hell.
posted by Windigo at 4:07 PM on February 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


They are nice eyebrows, just not particularly arched. The right amount of arching; not too little and not too much.

That's what makes them precisely arched: they are arched the right amount. Also, it occurs to me that perhaps the eyebrows looked somewhat different in the photo than they looked to the journalist in real life. I have no idea. Either way, welcome to MetaFilter, TarynHarperWright. Glad you could join us!
posted by Bella Donna at 6:12 PM on February 18, 2016


There’s far more eyebrow sensitivity here than I would have imagined. Sucking up to the new mod?
Besides it being a general description, I thought it was maybe just pointing out that she was rather meticulous, as we could see from her hobby. Now that she is here perhaps she can clear up this "eyebrows as a indicator of personality" brouhaha before we have to start an eyebrow sensitivity MetaTalk discussion.
posted by bongo_x at 6:18 PM on February 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh, and I was at that party with all the CAH people too. And I helped design all the new cards, right there at the party. Weird that you don’t remember that, but we were out on the balcony with Young Thug eating Power Bowls (I invented that). He kept saying "where’s Windigo?" and no one knew. Maybe you were in the bathroom.
posted by bongo_x at 6:25 PM on February 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


I can confirm my eyebrows are unremarkable. But I am kind of generic looking so I could see someone struggling when trying to describe me. OR maybe I was having a good brow week when I met the author.
posted by TarynHarperWright at 6:31 PM on February 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


So when she's back home and chatting with some of the mutual makers we both knew, she told them I was such good friends, and we all hung out together with a whole bunch of the CaH folks, and they showed her card packs that they haven't released yet, and oh my gosh what a weird thing to lie about, right? On the grand scale of things, not huge, but just odd as hell

My mom tells this kind of lie. She doesn't change her identity, professional qualifications, or anything like that, but she'll take some fact or story and twist it around in a way that makes it more vivid or flattering. It goes far beyond mere exaggeration. My sister and I can't really trust any of her stories. Of course, every once in a while one of the crazy stories turns out to be true.
posted by Area Man at 6:32 PM on February 18, 2016


TarynHarperWright; I’ve looked at your site over the years and found it fascinating. Thanks.
posted by bongo_x at 6:38 PM on February 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh snap it's you. Welcome to Metafilter. Serious question: how do I deputize you or someone like you to start debunking #notyourshield fake-avatar Twitter accounts?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:04 PM on February 18, 2016


Thank you for coming, Taryn!

There's a great podcast called Here Be Monsters with a recent episode about this kind of lie, produced by a young woman who actually did it as a teenager. She was about thirteen and obsessed with the way that beautiful dying girls in movies inspire passionate true love. No internet was involved, but she tried telling some cute boys how tragically she was dying. As an adult, full of guilt, she calls them to confess. It turns out they barely even noticed.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:21 PM on February 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


Having had the exhausting experience of a pathological liar in my family, I'm convinced that if he ever had to face his unvarnished reality, he'd kill himself. (His children don't speak to him; when he got divorced, his extended family almost universally took his spouse's side; he dropped out of a lousy career midlife and has been scraping along on fraudulently-obtained disability for years now. And there are worse things, but probably best not to mention them.) So, there's that. Some people lie; other people get started on the oxys. Or both!
posted by praemunire at 8:04 PM on February 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


Interesting parallels to the Li Dao case.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:35 PM on February 18, 2016


Further to the writing style derail!
The story, which she had begun in 2004, was a way to keep herself entertained, like fan fiction about a group of characters of her own invention.

Isn't fan fiction about your own characters, called... what was the word... fiction?
Or do we just call it fan fiction whenever it's something women write on the internet
posted by Gordafarin at 3:38 AM on February 19, 2016 [13 favorites]


I'm not sure "typically female thing" is exactly the phrase you wanted to use, but I think we all understand what you are wanting to say.


I just meant that it was mentioned in the article how the typical internet Munchhausen hoaxer is predominantly young, female and often depressed.
I was wondering if it says something about how women in particular react to...loneliness, social expectations...or I don't know.
Also thinking about it in terms of emotional labour - this docking onto communities dedicated to mutual caring, which is a very female dominated field.

Sorry, I didn't mean to insinuate anything negative about my own gender!
posted by Omnomnom at 4:16 AM on February 19, 2016


Gordafarin: "Isn't fan fiction about your own characters, called... what was the word... fiction?
Or do we just call it fan fiction whenever it's something women write on the internet
"

It could also be something like writing about your own characters attending Hogwarts, or crewing another star ship that's not the Enterprise but is in the Star Trek universe.
posted by RobotHero at 7:02 AM on February 19, 2016


Welcome Taryn.

Also, this whole digression into eyebrow issues is kind of hilarious. On the one hand, I like it when discussion is on topic, but some mefi digressions are just delightfully weird.
posted by rmd1023 at 8:36 AM on February 19, 2016


I listened to that HBM, Countess Elena, and it is indeed excellent, like a lot of what they do. The subject/presenter really puts herself under the microscope.
posted by Kreiger at 9:24 AM on February 19, 2016


this whole digression into eyebrow issues is kind of hilarious

I'm going to continue with this digression to note that how women are described in media is kind of a thing. It's also incredibly common writing cliche for a reporter to pause, set the scene, describe the "character" and give us some visual cues. They do this more often for women. Celebrity women get it the worst.
"[Celebrity woman] kicked off her size 6 Manolo's, curled up into the brocade wingback chair, pulled her oversized cashmere wrap around her tiny frame before fixing her clear blue eyes on me."
Granted, it is done to men, too, but doesn't seem to be so focused on frivolous physical characteristics. I'm very attuned to this when it happens because it is so often othering and belittling in some coded way. "Precisely arched" can connote that this is a woman who takes care of her appearance...perhaps in an overly fussy feminine way. That's how I read it. And given how many people scrolled up to confirm this "precise arch," it's clear that this "throwaway" line is not without impact. She has very nice eyebrows that do not appear to be "precisely" anything.

So, what the hell was the reporter's problem?

I feel like I read an Esquire or GQ or something where the satirical article was written about a famous man, maybe George Clooney, in the style of how women are described in similar articles. I can't seem to find the write search terms to come up with it but this listing of 14 Words We Only Use to Describe Women (and then some more) is pretty good and speaks to the broader issue.
posted by amanda at 9:49 AM on February 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


To be more on point with the post, it doesn't really surprise me that this kind of thing could be a manifestation of depression, loneliness or mental illness. By faking a tragedy, you get instant friends and attention without having to jump through all those hoops of cultivating a friendship, the give and take of regular relationships. You get all the caring, love, attention and sometimes gifts and no rejection. Once your "cancer" clears up, those people withdraw.
posted by amanda at 9:58 AM on February 19, 2016


amanda, here you go
posted by slipthought at 10:48 AM on February 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


I <3 Metafilter. I also wrote this story. The day I interviewed Taryn, I wrote in my notebook “nice eyebrows” (among, like, a zillion other notes). It’s funny to me that it’s provoked so much discussion. I agree that overly physicalized descriptions of women in writing is really annoying (at best) and sexist and belittling (at worst). But it’s also pretty standard to offer a quick sketch of what the person you’re writing about looks like. I guess I had thought eyebrows were a relatively neutral physical characteristic, but if it nagged at enough people then there’s clearly something there. We can all agree that “dark haired” is ok though, right? What’s the distinction?

Sincerely not trying to be defensive, just interested in puzzling this out since I hope to keep writing things and also hope to keep having them discussed on metafilter.
posted by attentionplease at 2:21 PM on February 19, 2016 [22 favorites]


Munchausen syndrome sufferers are primarily women, but people who pretend to be veterans are mostly men. I think they're similar drives - needing to be supported and to have people respect you. I don't know what the technical term for impersonating a vet (or cop, or doctor, or other authority) is, though.
posted by domo at 2:34 PM on February 19, 2016


Great story, attentionplease. For me, "precisely arched" is an just an odd way to describe eyebrows—as opposed to "haphazardly linear" or something? I don't think you're guilty of that "thing" of describing women a certain way, and most of the commenters seem amused, not annoyed.

Also, I'm surprised the Game of Thrones nerds here haven't linked to your other story.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:58 PM on February 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


I guess I had thought eyebrows were a relatively neutral physical characteristic

I think that's true. It was an unusual turn-of-phrase, so a few of us focused on it. I wouldn't let it get to you -- the article itself is great. My one comment about the eyebrow thing was sincerely just having fun with it because I love language & it caught my attention.
posted by Devils Rancher at 3:20 PM on February 19, 2016


The article is great and the issue is compelling. And the subject does indeed has nice eyebrows. But, yeah, there's something about "precisely arched" that seems to be trying to convey something else and it made me pause and go, "What is the reporter trying to get us to see or infer?"
posted by amanda at 4:21 PM on February 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


I have known a few people who have had some implausible number of unrelated dramas in their lives. Like, people who always seemed to be struggling with some big personal issue, one after another, where they were victims of something--disease, crime, some social drama of some sort, whatever.

And the one thing I think they had in common was that they HAD at some point had some real, verifiable tragic backstory, usually when they were children. Abuse, neglect, illness, something like that. Which makes me wonder if maybe there was just some point at which they'd been in the role of victim for long enough that it became a fundamental part of their personal identity and sense of worth. So maybe they're so used to being seen by others as a tragic figure that they can't conceive of someone valuing them for anything else.


I think that is a very astute observation and you have just explained a certain family member to me in a way that might finally let me engage with her exaggerated tragic drama through a lens of empathy rather than frustration and contempt.
posted by lollusc at 5:34 PM on February 19, 2016 [4 favorites]




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