He Loves To Eat Hair

March 2, 2016 2:09 PM

Bad Lip Reading - Ted Cruz
posted by The Whelk (956 comments total)

You are not tricking me into watching Ted Cruz. Nice try Republican shill.
posted by Keith Talent at 2:18 PM on March 2, 2016 [26 favorites]

Much more coherent than earlier BLR efforts, hence even more hilarious.

What is it about this guy? I seriously expect his skin to split and weird alien insects to spill out, Men In Black style, at any second.
posted by kinnakeet at 2:23 PM on March 2, 2016 [30 favorites]

Whenever he opens his mouth I keep expecting Lemongrab's voice to come out.
posted by The Whelk at 2:24 PM on March 2, 2016 [51 favorites]

I just couldn't get through it. I can't stand looking at that man's smug face. And, related: Ted Cruz Provides Detailed Response To Moderator’s Question About Why His Face So Fucking Infuriating
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 2:25 PM on March 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

holla holla holla holla
posted by sparklemotion at 2:25 PM on March 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

Stopvolution.

STOPVOLUTION.

This has to be a real actual phrase that the human-analog Cruz focus tested at some point.
posted by sgranade at 2:33 PM on March 2, 2016 [10 favorites]

I have seen enough of his horrific face (with extra-red and unnervingly pursed lips at the end of declarative statements) in pre-Super Tuesday ads to last five lifetimes, thank you very much.
posted by blucevalo at 2:34 PM on March 2, 2016

Hey, hey, hey, he waves a fringed flag in one part of the video. Seriously, and he's not even up on Denali, does that mean he is at a pirate funeral?
posted by Oyéah at 2:34 PM on March 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

From the Matt Taibbi article that's been making the rounds:

He used a German term, backpfeifengesicht, literally "a face in need of a good punch," to describe Cruz.

posted by adamrice at 2:34 PM on March 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

Hey, hey, hey, he waves a fringed flag in one part of the video. Seriously, and he's not even up on Denali, does that mean he is at a pirate funeral?

Based on what would undoubtedly be shown in closed captioning as [intense rhythmic grunting], my money's on it being American Aerobics^TM, an exercise routine of his own making.
posted by sgranade at 2:38 PM on March 2, 2016

Hey, hey, hey, he waves a fringed flag in one part of the video. Seriously, and he's not even up on Denali, does that mean he is at a pirate funeral?

It means he's in a COURT OF ADMIRALTY and he is now the President of NATURAL PERSON TED CRUZ.
posted by The Bellman at 2:42 PM on March 2, 2016 [33 favorites]

Much more coherent than his usual drivel.
posted by Pendragon at 2:58 PM on March 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

For entertainment I have been known to peruse the comments on RedState. They love Ted Cruz there, he's the second coming of Ronald Reagan and Jesus Christ in one person. But today there was a comment thread in which even his biggest fans were lamenting his potential unelectability due to his creepy vibe and bizarre facial expressions and snide tone. These are hard right folks who desperately hate Trump (and don't much like Rubio). Even they find him repugnant as a person.
posted by spitbull at 3:06 PM on March 2, 2016 [9 favorites]

And just to add, I'm way more worried about President Cruz than President Trump. One is an evil clown. The other is Ted Cruz.
posted by spitbull at 3:07 PM on March 2, 2016 [20 favorites]

I just couldn't get through it. I can't stand looking at that man's smug face.

Why Ted Cruz’s Facial Expression Makes Me Uneasy
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:10 PM on March 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

And just to add, I'm way more worried about President Cruz than President Trump. One is an evil clown. The other is Ted Cruz.

Ditto.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 3:13 PM on March 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

That got genuinely trippy.
posted by bonobothegreat at 3:15 PM on March 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

> He used a German term, backpfeifengesicht, literally "a face in need of a good punch," to describe Cruz.

This reminds me if one of my favorite recent MeFi comments about this election cycle: because he is made of mushrooms. sweaty mushrooms.
posted by Westringia F. at 3:16 PM on March 2, 2016

Whenever he opens his mouth I keep expecting Lemongrab's voice to come out.

i almost broke my mouse button from favoriting this so hard
posted by burgerrr at 3:20 PM on March 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

I am old enough to like or dislike a person, a political figure, for what he stood for, believed in, and not what he looked like or the how the facial expressions got to me, though clearly some of that , like height, and looks, figures into reception.
posted by Postroad at 3:20 PM on March 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

I understand it is a cheap shot to talk about the way Ted Cruz looks, but I finally put my finger on what unsettles me about him. He's a Sean Hannity-clone who never made it out of the uncanny valley.
posted by drezdn at 3:26 PM on March 2, 2016

Interestingly enough, this was funny enough to make watching Ted Cruz clips endurable to me for the first time ever. Normally I can't stand watching a skin-mask awkwardly stretched over a bowl of haunted mayonnaise.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 3:32 PM on March 2, 2016 [47 favorites]

Herbert Spinnecki has got my vote.
posted by drezdn at 3:41 PM on March 2, 2016 [19 favorites]

I love the #zodiacted meme.
posted by My Dad at 3:43 PM on March 2, 2016

Basically, I experience the uncanny valley effect when I look at him.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:43 PM on March 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

I've been pretty meh about previous BLR videos in the past, but this was truly funny.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 3:48 PM on March 2, 2016

I understand it is a cheap shot to talk about the way Ted Cruz looks

And usually, I'd agree with you. But in terms of his delivery, I see/sense a mismatch between what his face is doing and what he's feeling; for me, they never seem to synch up. This worries me a lot, especially when he is making trust part of his sloganeering. His affect is somehow off, and it reads as untrustworthiness. It's like that line (paraphrased from memory) "Hyperbole and a Half": "Come on, face, do me a solid and act convincing." It always seems to me that he has to think very hard about making his face do something approximating natural, and he doesn't seem to fully inhabit it, or something. It's not a judgment about attractiveness, but about how his face and affect and words work together--or don't, more to the point.
Uncanny valley gets at what bothers me about him.

The backpfeifengesicht joke is mean, and it raises the question: what would Ted Cruz's face look like if it betrayed and expressed an unfiltered, honest feeling?
posted by MonkeyToes at 3:54 PM on March 2, 2016 [9 favorites]

This is a great BLR though. The last little exchange about her old boyfriend... and "don't make us kiss."
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:55 PM on March 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

Whenever he opens his mouth I keep expecting Lemongrab's voice to come out his head to begin turning toroidally inverting while locusts burst forth whispering a list of your deepest fears.
posted by leotrotsky at 4:00 PM on March 2, 2016 [10 favorites]

Sometimes when you are ugly inside it shows.
posted by spitbull at 4:17 PM on March 2, 2016 [20 favorites]

It always seems to me that he has to think very hard about making his face do something approximating natural

I think you've nailed why I find him so intensely unpleasant. Part of it is that his personality is intensely unpleasant, of course -- but part of it is that he is such a bad actor. He tries to be genuine, and just comes off as smug and self-righteous. Because he's fucking smug and self-righteous.

When coupled with his politics it is an infuriating combination. If he was a better or more genuine person, I think that we wouldn't get so many jokes about his face. Maybe some, but not the amount Ted Cruz gets.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 4:19 PM on March 2, 2016 [4 favorites]

It might be worth remembering that if Cruz was a commedia dell'arte revivalist or played Count Chocula on TV or something we would all treat his weird face with kindness and appreciation.
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:20 PM on March 2, 2016 [25 favorites]

I cannot listen to Ted Cruz's voice without imagining Nathan Lane speaking.

So, thanks to this video, I was actually able to focus on his real face and I think the disconcerting part for me is the eyebrows. They are always downturned in a fake-sympathetic pandering look no matter what he says, so I kind of assume he's talking down at me.
posted by joan_holloway at 4:29 PM on March 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

I agree that talking about candidate physical appearance is dumb, but
posted by Going To Maine at 4:40 PM on March 2, 2016 [6 favorites]

It might be worth remembering that if Cruz was a commedia dell'arte revivalist or played Count Chocula on TV or something we would all treat his weird face with kindness and appreciation.

This is why I don't feel bad about despising his face. By becoming the senator that he is, Cruz has chosen to do awful things with his awful face.

Slightly related: I have never felt less pity for a human being's continued suffering than I felt last night for Chris Christie. In fact, someone pointed out on Twitter today that Chris Christie had to wake up in his own body this morning, and I still couldn't muster a shred of pity for him.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:41 PM on March 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

My team of crack psychic caretakers don't let me watch Ted Cruz directly, so instead I'm just getting all my political news from puppets this election cycle.
posted by phooky at 4:46 PM on March 2, 2016

Related: Darth Trump
posted by mcstayinskool at 4:50 PM on March 2, 2016

I thought this particular BLR was pretty good.

I find Cruz's politics and policy positions to be repugnant. While I feel Trump would be an embarrassing and catastrophic choice, I fear a Cruz presidency even more because Cruz has a much better understanding how the political process works and how to best use it for his own political advantage. Trump is evil in a buffoonish, Vulgarian way. Cruz's brand of evil is more insidious and carries the potential for great long term harm. Frankly, that scares me much, much more.

As for his looks - eh, he ain't my cup of meat, but I think there are far better reasons to despise the guy.
posted by mosk at 4:51 PM on March 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

He does the grease lizard
He does the grease lizard boogie
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:52 PM on March 2, 2016

Trump is Jabba the Hutt, Cruz is Palpatine

Jeb is Moff Jerjerrod

I could go on
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:54 PM on March 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

He looks a little Q (Star Trek, not Bond) and Stephen Harper had an an insincere baby. This is not a good thing.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 4:56 PM on March 2, 2016 [12 favorites]

i suspect he's got some kind of nerve condition that makes his face not move as other people expect.
posted by andrewcooke at 5:03 PM on March 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

note to self: next time you come across a new trailer for a Pixar sequel or a new Bad Lip Reading with a politician, use your daily FPP for the latter instead of tucking it into a thread with 1800+ posts.

BOGEL FOR THE GLOTCH
posted by numaner at 5:05 PM on March 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

Cruz' bad acting--or, if he's sincere, the mismatch between what his face expresses and what he purports to feel--goes to a comment I read somewhere, probably in one of the other FPPs, to wit that so many Americans treat politics as kayfabe. Nothing about him seems authentic, including his evocation of the stuff that he claims matters most: God and country.
posted by carmicha at 5:08 PM on March 2, 2016

He looks a little Q (Star Trek, not Bond) and Stephen Harper had an an insincere baby. This is not a good thing.

Oh my cuss that's what I've been trying to nail down!
posted by numaner at 5:08 PM on March 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

I think he looks like the Tin Man about to burst into tears and rust.
posted by carmicha at 5:09 PM on March 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

<pedant> "Backpfeife" means a slap across the face, same as "Ohrfeige", not a punch. </pedant>
posted by Hairy Lobster at 5:11 PM on March 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

Hi, I'm Bob Evil!
posted by a lungful of dragon at 5:11 PM on March 2, 2016

I think this is the best result from searching for "Ted Cruz" "uncanny valley" on Twitter: "Congratulations are due to generic male realdoll Ted Cruz (R-Uncanny Valley) on conning a buncha farmers into believing he's a sentient man"
posted by larrybob at 5:17 PM on March 2, 2016 [5 favorites]

He looks like King Joffrey all growed up, is what he looks like.

With a bad dye job.
posted by Sys Rq at 5:25 PM on March 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

i suspect he's got some kind of nerve condition that makes his face not move as other people expect.

Well he certainly has some kind of nerve anyway.

I have zero problem mocking the appearance of a republican male who holds deeply misogynistic views.
posted by spitbull at 5:26 PM on March 2, 2016 [3 favorites]

Whenever he opens his mouth I keep expecting Lemongrab's voice to come out.

It doesn't?
posted by Ursula Hitler at 5:29 PM on March 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

i suspect he's got some kind of nerve condition that makes his face not move as other people expect.

Me too!

Take a look at his high school annual pictures and note his eyes, then look at him now.

Something bad has happened/is happening to him.
posted by jamjam at 5:29 PM on March 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

He just looks so deeply unhappy to me. Like he's not okay and hasn't been okay ever. Either someone told me this or I read it here somewhere, but one way to have empathy for people is to think of the little child still inside the grown person - the little child version of Cruz I can see is just so sad.

I wish he would figure out his post-politics passion (ala W and his painting) and just go do that. Go be happy, Ted. Stop trying to make everyone fear you. It won't make you happy.
posted by sallybrown at 5:34 PM on March 2, 2016 [19 favorites]

I don't think it's a nerve condition. I think his face is botoxed to hell and back, so he can barely move it without deliberate exertion.
posted by ardgedee at 5:35 PM on March 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

At times, I have made a hole and then barfed on the beach.

I guess the difference between me and Possible Lizard President Ted Cruz is he made a song about it.
posted by a halcyon day at 5:44 PM on March 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

There's a lot of research about how one feels with one's face -- that the circuit to some degree goes through the facial muscles, which one feels and that in turn helps create the emotion. People with experimentally paralyzed faces both consciously feel, and in (semi) blind studies are measure to feel, more muted emotions. One of the many causes of conservatism seems to be how the emotional circuits are set up, with heightened fear and reduced sympathy. But sympathy is a circular path: one feels others in part by echoing them, both mentally, and more literally through microscopic bodily and facial echoes. In Cruz's case -- which is after all, simply a more extreme version of something I've felt in many conservative politicians -- the lack of empathy is part and parcel with the facial paralysis (and consequent conscious attempts to emulate natural facial expressions). It's hard to say which causes which though -- whether the attitudes cause the facial function to atrophy, or vice versa. But that's as it should be. No one really chooses to be evil. Something goes wonky in the belief-emotion circle, causing it to feedback towards a bad equilibrium, and because the face is part of the mind/body/emotion whole, it goes along and contributes to the rest. Heck, it may even have played some small independent causal role, if we discover Cruz actually has a physiological facial condition. But it's really only in these extreme cases, where the beliefs and actions are so divorced from any human sympathy, that the physical indicators such as facial artifice become so shockingly pronounced.

[And that is the most sympathetic I will ever be towards Cruz...]
posted by chortly at 5:51 PM on March 2, 2016 [15 favorites]

He looks like King Joffrey all growed up, is what he looks like.

I was in Spain and I saw a Goya painting of a princeling and I had this like, visceral reaction to it -- like holy hell who is this evil looking motherfucker -- and it turned out to be the Evil Spanish King who was chased out of the country, invited back to fill a new congressional monarch role and then reestablished the absolute monarchy, colluded with the church to imprison people and seize thier assets and ran a cruel, petty murderous dictatorship kicking off a civil war that simmered on and off until the 1970s.

He looked a lot like Ted Cruz.
posted by The Whelk at 6:02 PM on March 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

I was shocked to learn there are people who don't believe Ted Cruz is the Zodiac Killer.
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:20 PM on March 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

Gabe?
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:56 PM on March 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

Young Ted Cruz
posted by zutalors! at 7:44 PM on March 2, 2016

What a tool, and at such a tender age. Ass-perspiration indeed.
posted by carmicha at 8:03 PM on March 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

Had to do a double take before I realized that the above comment did not actually read "King Joffrey all ground up". Which makes just as much sense, maybe even more.
posted by vverse23 at 8:11 PM on March 2, 2016 [2 favorites]

I wish he would figure out his post-politics passion (ala W and his painting) and just go do that.

Ted Cruz’s post-political passion will be staging a Nixon-like comback and ascending to the presidency. But also, let’s be real: Cruz is going to be in the Senate for a long while. He’s not even up for re-election for another few years.
posted by Going To Maine at 8:18 PM on March 2, 2016

"Normally I can't stand watching a skin-mask awkwardly stretched over a bowl of haunted mayonnaise."
mrjohnmuller
"Whenever he opens his mouth I keep expecting his head to begin turning toroidally inverting while locusts burst forth whispering a list of your deepest fears."
Leotrotsky

Fine, poetic form in this thread.
posted by Oyéah at 8:47 PM on March 2, 2016 [10 favorites]

I also assumed Botox was to blame.
posted by small_ruminant at 10:49 PM on March 2, 2016 [1 favorite]

I normally find it painful to watch him (and listen to him), but his wife's facial expressions were worth the price of admission. (Don't try to tell me she's not sending out Morse code messages for rescue!)
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 11:00 PM on March 2, 2016 [7 favorites]

Stop being horrible. The man is an ambulatory skin-sack stuffed full of centipedes just doing the best he can. Cut him some goddamn slack.
posted by um at 12:22 AM on March 3, 2016 [23 favorites]

He just looks so deeply unhappy to me. Like he's not okay and hasn't been okay ever.

Seems a scary thought that we could get together to give someone like that such immense power over millions of lives.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 2:23 AM on March 3, 2016

I stand by my comment in another thread, I really want to mount an A-Team style rescue for poor Mrs Cruz.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 4:20 AM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

i have a bogle. in my glotch.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:59 AM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

Definitely not three toddlers stacked
posted by Mayor West at 5:50 AM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

Vincent Adultman 2016
posted by Room 641-A at 6:03 AM on March 3, 2016 [7 favorites]

Cruz/Skrelli 2016. It's the only way they can up the douche.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:22 AM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Seems a scary thought that we could get together to give someone like that such immense power over millions of lives.

Oh, don't worry about that; the number of lives he has control over will undoubtedly drop significantly.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:45 AM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

I liked the fact that the song at the end was Ted's entry from the debate BLR. Although Christie's "pepper spray tan" lyric will always be my favorite.
posted by Biblio at 12:05 PM on March 3, 2016

I'm not a body language expert, but in the footage where Cruz and his wife are together, she seems to get as physically far away from him in the frame as possible.
posted by drezdn at 2:59 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I feel bad talking about how I hate his face. And his voice. I know it's not charitable, but I just do. Maybe he grew them because he spent his childhood listening to his dad who told him he is anointed by their version of the sky daddy to be king of the world. That's how and why he grew up to be a gargoyle.

Actually, I wonder which came first, my disgust with his visage or my disgust with his message. I feel the same way about Drumpf. I have an extremely hard time looking at or listening to him. Full body recoil. The thing is, I am quite sure that is the way the GOP and Tea Partiers feel about Obama.
posted by Belle O'Cosity at 4:02 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I stand by my comment in another thread, I really want to mount an A-Team style rescue for poor Mrs Cruz.

I just feel terrible for her. I mean, her life right now is getting questions that are roughly of the form “Everyone else thinks your husband is appalling. Why don’t you?” What a horrible position to be put in.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:08 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

The female of the species, in this case Goodman Sachs exec, is more deadly than the male.
posted by Oyéah at 4:14 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

Youtube stream for Republican debate in case this is where the jibberjabber ends up going.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:55 PM on March 3, 2016

Alright, I'll debate over here so we don't murder the servers. I kind of think shit is going to hit the fan tonight.
posted by zug at 5:58 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

...and muting Captain O'Reilly. No thank you sir.
posted by zug at 6:00 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

beautiful theater!
posted by cmfletcher at 6:00 PM on March 3, 2016

I had to hide the chat as well, zug. Eesh.
posted by defenestration at 6:00 PM on March 3, 2016

Wow that is a beautiful theatre.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:01 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

we cant look at cruz without eating hair
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:01 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

beautiful theater!

Yuge, luxurious.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:02 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'm so embarrassed for this crowd.
posted by defenestration at 6:03 PM on March 3, 2016

I kind of think shit is going to hit the fan tonight.

It surely hasn’t before.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:03 PM on March 3, 2016

I'm so embarrassed for this crowd America.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:04 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

I hate Trump's face.
posted by defenestration at 6:04 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Is he talking about respective trade deficits?
posted by My Dad at 6:04 PM on March 3, 2016

OK, 60 seconds in, and I'm not sure I can hack it.

I'm just looking for them to start shouting and humiliating themselves. That can't be too much to ask, can it?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:05 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

At least they did the hard labor and found a few African-Americans to be in the audience... in Detroit.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:05 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

'Nobody has ever hit my hands.'
posted by box at 6:07 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

THESE HANDS
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:07 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

The hooting and hollering really is like something out of Idiocracy.
posted by My Dad at 6:07 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

How long do you think it will take to get past the name calling and actually talk about an issue?
posted by cmfletcher at 6:07 PM on March 3, 2016

Did that really just happen?
posted by Perplexity at 6:07 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

This is what they've devolved to. "My dick is big". Really.
posted by cashman at 6:07 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Wow, he really is insecure about his hands. OMG HE DIDN'T
posted by zug at 6:07 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

Literal dick measuring contest.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:07 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump is vulgar trash.
posted by defenestration at 6:08 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump: Vote for me, I'm hung like a horse.
posted by homunculus at 6:08 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh my god. 'Look at my hands! And let me tell you about my dick!'

I'm all in.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:08 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Wow.
posted by My Dad at 6:08 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I can't imagine Hillary or Sanders dealing with Trump talking about his penis.
posted by zutalors! at 6:08 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Good lord, he really did just talk about his penis.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:08 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

You jumped in this septic tank Rubio, now swim in it.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:08 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

I... can't even believe that happened.
posted by zug at 6:08 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

All in for watching this trainwreck, not for Trump and his luxurious weiner, let me be clear.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:09 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

They already went there and we're only a few minutes in!
posted by chaoticgood at 6:09 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

How long do you think it will take to get past the name calling and actually talk about an issue?

I'm going with never. All dick talk, all night.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:09 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

wait i am starting to think the bell does nothing
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:09 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

If the Republican party ends up being destroyed after all this, it might actually have been worth watching people running for president acting like teenagers. And immature teens at that.
posted by cashman at 6:09 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Kasich why are you there
posted by zutalors! at 6:10 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I tuned in 10 minutes late and I already missed a penis reference????
posted by benito.strauss at 6:10 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

Control group
posted by cmfletcher at 6:11 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

yep Trump talking about his yuuge beautiful wang
posted by zutalors! at 6:11 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I am really curious as to whether the GOP is able to save this shitshow.
posted by zug at 6:11 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I would love to be a fly on the wall of wherever Michelle and Barack are watching this. Can you just imagine?
posted by SillyShepherd at 6:11 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

I so much want Trump to win the nomination, or to throw a tantrum and run independent, just to see Hillary or Bernie fucking destroy him.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:11 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

Cruz and Rubio are teaming up on Trump.
posted by zutalors! at 6:11 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

If he whips it out, I'm done for the election season.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:12 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

'The audience cannot understand when you're talking over each other.'
posted by box at 6:12 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm a superfan of Megyn Kelly only in this context.
posted by zutalors! at 6:12 PM on March 3, 2016

Yes, the INCOHERENT YELLING BEGINS.

Excellent.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:12 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

It's only a matter of time until Trump starts selling a Trump Dildo modeled after his junk. At the Sharper Image, of course.
posted by homunculus at 6:13 PM on March 3, 2016 [7 favorites]

[Dick measuring intensifies]
posted by Existential Dread at 6:13 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

Rubio looked like he was going to cry when Kasich said he was the only adult on the stage.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:13 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I would love to be a fly on the wall of wherever Michelle and Barack are watching this. Can you just imagine?


They're watching a pirated copy of the Downton Abbe finale. They DGAF.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:14 PM on March 3, 2016 [8 favorites]

Kasich predicts Ohio win. If he doesn't get it, that might be a spot to drop out.
posted by box at 6:15 PM on March 3, 2016

I'm watching Taken 3, and reading this thread. One is about a set up.
posted by OmieWise at 6:16 PM on March 3, 2016

I'm watching nursery rhymes on tv with kiddos. The only way i could tolerate this is via proxy liveblogging, so I salute you brave Mefites.
posted by Existential Dread at 6:16 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I am going to watch for as long as I can but this is my nightmare. I HATE people yelling and cross talking. It puts every one of my nerves on edge and all I hear is a red roar. Sensory overload.
posted by futz at 6:16 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

I think zombie Lincoln and Douglas are going to come in and hit them all with a chair when the moderators aren't looking.
posted by cmfletcher at 6:17 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

Rubio sounds frantic.
posted by zug at 6:17 PM on March 3, 2016

Seems like a good place for this: CNN can account for only half of the $6 million allegedly raised for veterans groups at the rally Trump held in opposition to the last FOX News debate.

I don't know what's more shocking: that they can actually account for even that much of the money, or that CNN is doing actual investigative journalism.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:17 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

John Hodgman: John Kasich has been standing there with his penis out for 9 minutes now and no one is paying attention
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:18 PM on March 3, 2016 [15 favorites]

should just mute the volume and then put the Curb Your Enthuiasm theme on in the background futz.
posted by vuron at 6:18 PM on March 3, 2016

Again, I don't understand why Rubio isn't running away with this thing. I can see why the GOP thought he was their guy.
posted by zutalors! at 6:18 PM on March 3, 2016

Hey, it is professional wrestling!
posted by zug at 6:18 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Rubio just took up Ben Carson's line by asking audience members to check his website to learn more.
posted by Theiform at 6:18 PM on March 3, 2016

If enough people tweet/facebook about dick, do the moderators have an obligation to bring that up? (I imagine that is a much tweeted about subject right about now)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 6:19 PM on March 3, 2016

Who is the moderator asking really stupid questions right now?
posted by futz at 6:19 PM on March 3, 2016

He's got a real hard-on for Japan. Japan doesn't export clothing to the US, ffs.
posted by My Dad at 6:20 PM on March 3, 2016

Wait, his stuff is really made it in China?
posted by zug at 6:20 PM on March 3, 2016

Mike Wallace's kid!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:20 PM on March 3, 2016

But what is the crotch sizing on trump pants?
posted by futz at 6:20 PM on March 3, 2016

Trump Steaks!
posted by My Dad at 6:21 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Chris Wallace, the son of Mike Wallace. We weep.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:21 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

They're children. This is remarkably pitiful.
posted by cashman at 6:21 PM on March 3, 2016

"Uh, uh, Big Donald" was not the smoothest comeback, all else aside.
posted by cortex at 6:21 PM on March 3, 2016

(Also, cap wearing beardo behind Wallace is feeling his oats. Watch him.)
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:22 PM on March 3, 2016

Should each candidate now disclose their dick size, flaccid and erect?
posted by nubs at 6:22 PM on March 3, 2016

Little Marco? Fist fight in 3, 2, 1...
posted by futz at 6:22 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

And Fox News admits tax cuts don't magically create revenue.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:22 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

Put up the numbers!
posted by box at 6:22 PM on March 3, 2016

Oh snap - graphics! Ross Perot is somewhere like yeahhhhh buddy!
posted by cashman at 6:22 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

I see Donald Trump up there utterly humiliating himself, just a horrifying trainwreck, and I'm feeling pretty confident his fans, in their literal millions, are just eating it up.

I find that very hard to understand.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:22 PM on March 3, 2016 [13 favorites]

Should each candidate now disclose their dick size, flaccid and erect?


"OK, up next, we have a question about the rigidity of your erections."
posted by defenestration at 6:23 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Looks like Fox News has decided to join the anti-Trump parade.
posted by zug at 6:23 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

More graphics! They're really trying to get rid of Donald!
posted by cashman at 6:23 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

This is surreal
posted by futz at 6:23 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

How the hell does Trump answer a question about the Dept of Education with a rant about pharmaceutical companies?
posted by hollygoheavy at 6:23 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

This is such an obvious hit job it may just backfire.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:24 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

Tax cuts don't create magic revenue. Waste and efficiency cuts can't fix the deficit.

Is this MSNBC? Where am I?
posted by Drinky Die at 6:24 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

And Fox News admits tax cuts don't magically create revenue.

Only Trump's tax cuts, Chris Wallace won't ask the same question of the other candidates unrealistic budgets.
posted by peeedro at 6:24 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Can I uh . . .

No it's Fox vs Trump reality show now.
posted by cmfletcher at 6:24 PM on March 3, 2016

Oh my god, they're actually hitting him with facts and numbers. That's... unexpected.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:24 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

These graphics? Fox decided to kill Trumps candidacy. Let's see if it works.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:24 PM on March 3, 2016

I think if Trump can point out what a hack job this is and defend his supporters in a compelling way, this is going to backfire on Fox in a big way.
posted by zug at 6:25 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

Omg these are actually good questions. What is happening?????
posted by melissasaurus at 6:25 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

Fox did arithmetic. OMG Trump, IT'S A TRAP!
posted by klarck at 6:25 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

WTF is hanging out of Cruz's mouth??
posted by hollygoheavy at 6:26 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

Didn't Murdoch say that Fox was done with Rubio-bot this week?
posted by futz at 6:26 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

WTF is hanging out of Cruz mouth??

Scrunchie crumbs.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:26 PM on March 3, 2016 [11 favorites]

I never thought I would see the day where Cruz was parroting Democratic talking points.
posted by zug at 6:27 PM on March 3, 2016

WTF is hanging out of Cruz mouth??

IDK, but he ate it!!
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:27 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

Yeah. I really would have love to have been a fly-on-the-wall in Fox this wee.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:27 PM on March 3, 2016

Murdoch earlier this week.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:28 PM on March 3, 2016

WTF is hanging out of Cruz mouth??

A less punchable face trying to get free?
posted by futz at 6:28 PM on March 3, 2016 [13 favorites]

That bell makes this sound like a 70's game show. Where's Bert Convy?
posted by cmfletcher at 6:29 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Don't treat the Donald UNFAIR. That will force him to run third party.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:29 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

That will force him to run third party.

*giggles uncontrollably with glee*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:30 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

WTF is hanging out of Cruz mouth??

Are we done with phrasing?
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:30 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

I hate that Cruz always brings up Carter at these things. Carter is 93 and, as a former Presidemt, personally building houses for people who are poor, let's give him a freaking break.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:30 PM on March 3, 2016 [13 favorites]

Uh oh. A woman is asking questions now.
posted by futz at 6:30 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Moderators: Math

Trump: Math is a lie
posted by homunculus at 6:30 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

The huge Republican tax cut plans, in 4 charts

Spoiler: they're all the same as Trump's. Why didn't FOX hit them all with the same question?
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:31 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

There's the playing nice to Megyn.
posted by bluecore at 6:33 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

> Why didn't FOX hit them all with the same question?

Fox makes almost no pretense at impartiality. They have decided to take him down.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:33 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Love to see them put up the numbers for the others a lá Trump.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:34 PM on March 3, 2016

I don't want to hear Trump talking about "tug and pull."
posted by dhens at 6:34 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

I hate that Cruz always brings up Carter at these things. Carter is 93 and, as a former Presidemt, personally building houses for people who are poor, let's give him a freaking break

survived CANCER and his grandson's death in the last few years

Great man, American hero, leave him alone.
posted by zutalors! at 6:35 PM on March 3, 2016 [24 favorites]

Man, that wall still gets cheers.
posted by klarck at 6:35 PM on March 3, 2016

"Tug" and "pull". I didn't expect this to turn into spot the unexpected innuendo, but the dick stuff got things rolling in that direction....
posted by nubs at 6:35 PM on March 3, 2016

Rubio debates like I play Mario Kart when I'm in the lead and there is a blue shell incoming.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:36 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

Rubio starting to sound raspy? Commercial break, Fox. Dude needs water.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:37 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

"Ram it down their throats" omg guys, just stop, just stop...
posted by nubs at 6:37 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

It's amazing how much a man can be mocked for being thirsty. Then again, my reading of Rubio's thirst is that he's on adderall. He's got the anxious speech patterns and nervous twitches of a legal speeder.
posted by dis_integration at 6:39 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

I tried. I tuned in after the penis stuff (thank God) and yet I still can't stand watching this.

In front of any rational crowd, either of the Democratic candidates would wipe the floor with these morons. Alas, this election is gonna come down to a test of how many irrational voters we have in the US.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:39 PM on March 3, 2016

OK, I'm starting to feel a bit grimy, here, so I'm out.

Enjoy the madness, friends.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:39 PM on March 3, 2016

So if one in three people get shingles in their lifetime and there are four candidates on stage...
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:40 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

"Ram it down their throats" omg guys, just stop, just stop...

You could probably write a whole fanfic series with the vaguely-homoerotic-threatening crap they say at these debates. I think my favorites from the last one were John Kasich's "$8 billion dollar hole" and Trump's repeated references to those "strong young Syrian men" or something to that effect.
posted by dialetheia at 6:40 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

I kind of want trump to win? The republican party has become a group of horrible liars who have manipulated their constituency with fearmongering, racism, and sexism and they've spent 20 years talking about fiscal responsibility and then doing the exact opposite. It's incredible.

Trump is doing more than anybody else to drag all of this ugly stuff into the light. It feels like just desserts to watch them scramble to close pandora's box.

Plus, he's an awful debater and Hillary will absolutely wipe the floor with him.
posted by zug at 6:41 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Kasich and Cruz could hold their own in a debate with Hillary I think. It's just impossible to see in the clusterfuck that has been all of these debates.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:41 PM on March 3, 2016

Damn, FOX News shut the feed down.
posted by defenestration at 6:43 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Okay now I'm going to be watching for more from the little girl making funny faces behind Kelly for the rest of this.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:43 PM on March 3, 2016

uhhh okay are they feeding the same ads to everyone? cause it just gave me a lushly produced ad for an eastern european mail order bride service that actually managed to be slightly more disgusting than the debate itself.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:43 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

crap, the YT stream got killed and I can't get the Fox News one to run... any other streams out there?
posted by Hairy Lobster at 6:43 PM on March 3, 2016

Kasich, yeah. Cruz? I've never met anybody more punchable, and I'm a committed pacifist.
posted by zug at 6:43 PM on March 3, 2016

oh. the stream just died.
posted by andrewcooke at 6:43 PM on March 3, 2016

Fox just killed the YouTube livestream. I don't think I'm upset.
posted by nubs at 6:44 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

The fox news one is working for me.
posted by zug at 6:45 PM on March 3, 2016

I'm still watching successfully on the iOS Fox News (shudder) app.
posted by glhaynes at 6:45 PM on March 3, 2016

Is there another way to watch online?
posted by Dip Flash at 6:45 PM on March 3, 2016

Wow. I wonder how the live stream ever got going in the first place?
posted by benito.strauss at 6:45 PM on March 3, 2016

You are missing a lot of Trumpian hand-motions.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:45 PM on March 3, 2016

Dear DNC,

Hillary and Bernie need to have a debate where they sit in some comfortable chairs with a cup of coffee and discuss issues for two hours. At the end, they shake hands and say good luck we both want the best for the country and we agree one things and on some we don't.

At the end you break the 4th wall and say that's how you govern.
posted by cmfletcher at 6:46 PM on March 3, 2016 [55 favorites]

Pirate stream, use at your own risk: http://www.livenewschat.eu/the-republican-debates-live-stream/
posted by Drinky Die at 6:46 PM on March 3, 2016

I'm agreeing with Rubio
posted by zutalors! at 6:46 PM on March 3, 2016

http://www.foxnews.com/live-coverage/fox-news-gop-debate
posted by andrewcooke at 6:46 PM on March 3, 2016

Hi nubs, your username commenting on the dick stuff is cracking me up.

I can be very immature.
posted by futz at 6:46 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

And his argument that hiring foreign workers doesn't contradict his immigration positions because it's "very very hot" in West Palm Beach.
posted by dis_integration at 6:47 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

Trump: I have to hire them because it's hot.
posted by homunculus at 6:47 PM on March 3, 2016 [7 favorites]

Cruz - "The tapes will prove you're innocent. ...release them"

Nice phrasing, putting it in those terms.
posted by cashman at 6:47 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump; Americans don't want jobs, we must import non citizens
posted by zutalors! at 6:47 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

When will the lights go out suddenly and then Undertaker shows up and chokeslams The Donald into the podium.

Buh God I think he's dead!
posted by vuron at 6:47 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump: I have to hire them because it's hot.

Makes them sound like slaves/indentured servants, which Rubio points out (sorta)
posted by zutalors! at 6:48 PM on March 3, 2016

The crowd is like kids in a cafeteria cheering on a fight.
posted by cashman at 6:48 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Hillary and Bernie need to have a debate where they sit in some comfortable chairs with a cup of coffee and discuss issues for two hours. At the end, they shake hands and say good luck we both want the best for the country and we agree one things and on some we don't.


That was pretty much the Dem debates. Total snoozefest.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:48 PM on March 3, 2016

Nice gif from the HRC team
posted by glhaynes at 6:49 PM on March 3, 2016 [22 favorites]

Hi nubs, your username commenting on the dick stuff is cracking me up.

I can be very immature.

I'm a vulgarian, I just don't talk about the size of my hands.
posted by nubs at 6:49 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

Hillary and Bernie need to have a debate where they sit in some comfortable chairs with a cup of coffee and discuss issues for two hours. At the end, they shake hands and say good luck we both want the best for the country and we agree one things and on some we don't.

Yes, please.
posted by tobascodagama at 6:49 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

When will the lights go out suddenly and then Undertaker shows up and chokeslams The Donald into the podium.

Come on, it's obvious Stone Cold would be the one feuding with him.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:49 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

I kind of want trump to win? The republican party has become a group of horrible liars who have manipulated their constituency with fearmongering, racism, and sexism and they've spent 20 years talking about fiscal responsibility and then doing the exact opposite. It's incredible.

Trump is doing more than anybody else to drag all of this ugly stuff into the light. It feels like just desserts to watch them scramble to close pandora's box.

“My goal is to destroy the Republican Party”: Former Reagan adviser Bruce Bartlett explains his vote for Donald Trump. The GOP is "just a coalition of cranks, and racists and bigots and religious kooks" that will lose big with Trump
posted by homunculus at 6:50 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Hillary and Bernie need to have a debate where they sit in some comfortable chairs with a cup of coffee and discuss issues for two hours. At the end, they shake hands and say good luck we both want the best for the country and we agree one things and on some we don't.

Yes, please.

Make it happen, DWS. There are no negatives here.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:51 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

Say what you want about HRC but her team is slick with the dank memes
posted by vuron at 6:51 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

I was really hoping Cruz would promise to bring back the Soviet Union so he could take it down again just like good old Ronnie Raygun.
posted by graymouser at 6:54 PM on March 3, 2016

this is too awful to watch. tapping out...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:54 PM on March 3, 2016

Make it happen, DWS. There are no negatives here

If there is a chance that it would make Hillary look bad it will never happen on DWSs watch.
posted by futz at 6:54 PM on March 3, 2016

Y’know, speaking of wrestling, I’m going to bow out here for the moment, because I haven’t watched last night’s NXT yet… and I really need to see something with storylines that make sense with characters I care about.

I would kill to see a debate moderated by William Regal and Cory Graves.
posted by nicepersonality at 6:54 PM on March 3, 2016

"It's illegal," is apparently the worst thing about murdering the families of terrorists.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:54 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

homunculus got the best links. HRC gifs are indeed fucking dank. Where Sanders at?
posted by OmieWise at 6:54 PM on March 3, 2016

So did FOX prep Rubio and Cruz with their 'neg' questions?
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:55 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Make it happen, DWS. There are no negatives here.

Debbie Wasserman Schultz is a negative.
posted by homunculus at 6:55 PM on March 3, 2016 [7 favorites]

"we don't need a president who'll just pop off at the hip"
posted by Hairy Lobster at 6:56 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump said he would order soldiers to violate the Geneva Convention and commit atrocities... and the crowd cheered. Jesus Christ.
posted by bluecore at 6:56 PM on March 3, 2016 [14 favorites]

This is the shit that is making me so disgusted right now. Sure, Trump said it, fine, he's insane. Why can't Fox News point out it's A MORAL HORROR. It's what the terrorists would do. US troops won't refuse to do it because it's illegal, they won't do it because they aren't cold blooded murderers.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:56 PM on March 3, 2016 [18 favorites]

Yeah the GOP needs to get their storylines right, you need at least one babyface to feud with all the heels because nobody gives a shit when it's just heels fighting heels.

Maybe Trump can license the Hulkster's "Real American" theme and ask for the crowd to give him power. Both Trump and Hogan are despicable people so it seems like it would be a good team up.
posted by vuron at 6:57 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm guessing that Ronald Reagan stuff was going to end with a dick joke?
posted by nubs at 6:57 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

SNOWDEN WAS A SPY.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:57 PM on March 3, 2016

kasich was quoting lcd soundsystem in an attempt to attract the younger vote.
posted by andrewcooke at 6:57 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

homunculus got the best links. HRC gifs are indeed fucking dank. Where Sanders at?

Oh, Sanders has the dankest of memes.
posted by dis_integration at 6:58 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

I honestly had no real idea how bloodthirsty some people are in this country. It's upsetting. I think I might be more afraid of Trump's army than I am of him.
posted by hollygoheavy at 6:58 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

SNOWDEN WAS A SPY.

I'll state this every time it comes up. Snowden is a fuckin' hero!
posted by cmfletcher at 7:01 PM on March 3, 2016 [8 favorites]

Flipflop reel!
posted by cortex at 7:01 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

I honestly had no real idea how bloodthirsty some people are in this country. It's upsetting. I think I might be more afraid of Trump's army than I am of him.

That would be the correct takeaway from this, IMO. Trump is stoppable, particularly if he runs independent. Those people? They're being encouraged to creep out from under their rocks. That won't go away just because he does.
posted by mordax at 7:01 PM on March 3, 2016 [12 favorites]

Damn, showing Donald straight up lying. Playing clips of him lying, playing all of the clips before they'll let him respond.
posted by cashman at 7:02 PM on March 3, 2016

"This is your life" trump. Enjoy.
posted by futz at 7:02 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

If Snowden was a spy, he was super deep cover and willing to do what it takes. We both grew up in Crofton, MD and went to the same elementary school and Crofton Woods' music program was HELLA RUFF. But he endured and did more! I mean, he asked my little sister out on 5th grade and if that is not a sacrifice for a cause, then I dunno what is.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:02 PM on March 3, 2016 [13 favorites]

Why can't Fox News point out it's A MORAL HORROR.

Because they don't actually care.
This election is no longer about winning the White House for them it's all about retaining control of the party.
posted by fullerine at 7:02 PM on March 3, 2016 [7 favorites]

Did 9/11 hijackers send their wives out of the US prior to the attacks? No!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:02 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

On torture: remember Trump's argument is basically exactly what W's was. When the President does it, it's not illegal. They were for it before they were for it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:02 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

"Et tu Fox News!"
posted by vuron at 7:03 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Note that fact check is from December. He's had months to erase that anecdote from his repertoire.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:03 PM on March 3, 2016

I'm sure all of this can be blamed on earpiece malfunctions.
posted by futz at 7:04 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Wouldn't Ted Cruz's mouth-booger disqualify him outright? I mean c'mon.

ew.
posted by alrightokay at 7:05 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

They're being encouraged to creep out from under their rocks. That won't go away just because he does.

There's good reason to think they'll be even worse if he loses than if he wins.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:05 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

"Megyn, I have a VERY STRONG CORE."

*debate ends due to all candidates frantically doing crunches on stage*
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:05 PM on March 3, 2016 [8 favorites]

Trump sounds like he's flailing, big time.
posted by zug at 7:05 PM on March 3, 2016

He also described himself as meek. lol
posted by futz at 7:05 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

There's good reason to think they'll be even worse if he loses than if he wins.

... and there's that, yeah.
posted by mordax at 7:06 PM on March 3, 2016

re: torture and war crimes:
Last weekend, Politico ran a clickbaity bullshit piece about Michael Hayden saying that the US military would ignore Trump's orders.
He said it on Bill Maher. Specifically, though, he was clearly referring to illegal orders. Ignoring illegal orders is what the US military is fucking supposed to do. It's a foundational principal...one that has sadly been ignored a lot in recent years (Abu Ghraib, etc), but at this point it's like the media and a huge swath of the voting public take that for granted and don't give a shit. And why? In part, because of reporting like this.

You're supposed to ignore and oppose illegal orders. Full stop. Once upon a time, you learned this in freakin' basic training when they taught you the Uniform Code of Military Justice. It's a scary thing to do, but when you put on that uniform, you're signing up to do scary shit. Sometimes scary shit means saying, "No, sir. That's illegal, sir." And that's what Hayden (yes, "crashing weddings with missiles" Hayden) was talking about.

The fact that Maher made a joke of it is no shock. He's a comedian. The fact that Politico glossed right by that principle for the sake of clickbaiting made me furiously angry. Yet that's how the media works in this country, and it's a huge factor as to how we've come to this fucking horror show.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:06 PM on March 3, 2016 [16 favorites]

His supporters are cheering when he says you have to be flexible and they'd cheer if he says you shouldn't be flexible. I just don't understand what it would take to make them not support the guy. I'm pretty sure he really could shoot someone on 5th avenue and they'd still cheer.

It really does make me viscerally understand how someone like Toothbrush Moustache Guy was supported for so long in a way all the reading in the world never has.
posted by Justinian at 7:06 PM on March 3, 2016 [7 favorites]

Y'ALL! The Donald is super flexible. With a strong core.
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:06 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

OH MY GOD. Ari Fleischer, of all people.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:06 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I sue people I hate and litigate people who hate me.

This is the party of tort reform.
posted by cmfletcher at 7:08 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

Trump still repeating the "i don't settle cases" thing which is apparently a lie.
posted by cashman at 7:08 PM on March 3, 2016

BBB is a scam, not a good defense.
posted by futz at 7:08 PM on March 3, 2016

By the way I was referring, of course, to Charlie Chaplin.
posted by Justinian at 7:08 PM on March 3, 2016

I'm sorry I'm never going to vote for Rubio obvs but he's speaking some truth out there.
posted by zutalors! at 7:08 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

This trump U stuff is very personal to trump. It might just get his goat.
posted by futz at 7:10 PM on March 3, 2016

FOX's hit job is working. I'm starting to see Trump's hands as small too.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:10 PM on March 3, 2016 [8 favorites]

Rubio is such a lightweight that those heeled shoes for which he was mocked were probably actually lead-weighted heels to keep him from floating away.

Only the fact that this is such an embarrassment and fustercluck makes him look good by comparison to Trump.
posted by Justinian at 7:10 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Oh shit. Dropping the con-artist line. Implication: all of Trumps supporters are being conned, and will only realize the error of their ways when it's too late. It's true, but I hate truth coming from Fox News.
posted by dis_integration at 7:10 PM on March 3, 2016 [8 favorites]

MEGYN
posted by zutalors! at 7:11 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

They're going for the jugular on this one.
posted by Talez at 7:11 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

Only the fact that this is such an embarrassment and fustercluck makes him look good by comparison to Drumpf.

oh totally. Any praise of him I have is just in this context.
posted by zutalors! at 7:12 PM on March 3, 2016

So help me out. Is FOX running these videos an example ratfucking or just plain old fucking?
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:12 PM on March 3, 2016

Ignoring illegal orders is what the US military is fucking supposed to do.

Bush got around that by installing Yoo/Goldsmith at the DOJ to make it legal, then shielding all court review behind the state secrets doctrine. Obama is doing the same exact thing with the ongoing, undeclared, unreviewed, illegal targeted drone killing of random civilians across, what, 11? countries now? Relying on the US military to ignore "illegal" orders when they have no way of identifying such, and every institutional incentive not to do so is fantasyland.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:12 PM on March 3, 2016 [7 favorites]

Yeah, calling Trump a con artist by proxy.
posted by dhens at 7:12 PM on March 3, 2016

Anybody get the feeling this might be Trump's last debate?
posted by cashman at 7:12 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

So help me out. Is FOX running these videos an example ratfucking or just plain old fucking?

Rats fucking rats?
posted by dis_integration at 7:13 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

CRUZ TAKING THE HIGH ROAD.

Holy shit the chutzpah on him.
posted by Talez at 7:14 PM on March 3, 2016

Audience is not backing trump at the moment. I think the little Marco comments are backfiring.
posted by futz at 7:14 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh shit. Dropping the con-artist line. Implication: all of Trumps supporters are being conned, and will only realize the error of their ways when it's too late.

That's the problem, though: victims of con artists don't want to believe they were ever conned. They don't want to give up the visions of unicorns and rainbows (or, in this case, burning crosses and walls). They'd rather live in denial.

Peeling away Trump's supporters ain't gonna happen, because they'd have to accept that their dreams aren't gonna happen. The only path now is to focus on the relatively sane Republicans. They have to be convinced to put country before party.

'cause, y'know, they've all been so good about that before now, right? Ugh.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:14 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

Kasich is SO MAD he was not given the nod for the "Is this what we really waaaannnttt?" plea.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:14 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

rodent centipede
posted by Hairy Lobster at 7:14 PM on March 3, 2016

OH SHIT - "Count to ten Donald"
posted by cashman at 7:14 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

If these guys could actually think on their feet Cruz's response should have been "I don't think the people who lost their life savings think it is a minor case."
posted by Justinian at 7:14 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

Maybe I should be up there instead of these idiots.
posted by Justinian at 7:15 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

Holy shit the GOP wants the Donald gone so bad. I wouldn't be shocked if he wakes up with a Horse Head in his bed or an undercover videotape with him and some prostitutes.
posted by vuron at 7:15 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

Anybody get the feeling this might be Trump's last debate?

It very well might be. He doesn't like being confronted with facts.
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:16 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

I HAVE NOTHING BUT POLL NUMBERS!
posted by cmfletcher at 7:16 PM on March 3, 2016

Regarding his contributions to Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, Trump's best answer is that he didn't want Obama to win.
posted by carmicha at 7:16 PM on March 3, 2016

Trump better play the martyr card soon or he's finished.
posted by klarck at 7:17 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm having a hard time picking which one to root for.
posted by Lyme Drop at 7:17 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

So, are they going to mention Flint or what?
posted by melissasaurus at 7:17 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'm having a hard time picking which one to root for.

I'm rooting for ...

...

...

AMERICA!
posted by dis_integration at 7:17 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

So, are they going to mention Flint or what?

no, they don't actually care about America
posted by zutalors! at 7:18 PM on March 3, 2016 [10 favorites]

Trump University has a D- rating from the Better Business Bureau.
posted by homunculus at 7:18 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Implication: all of Trumps supporters are being conned, and will only realize the error of their ways when it's too late.

This line would work a lot better if Republicans hadn't been conning their voters since 1980 about how low taxes for millionaires will somehow translate into lots of jobs and money for them. Many of them seem to have realized they were being conned this year and are pretty angry about it - I'm not sure calling other guys out as con-men is a good look for people who are also trying to con them and treating them like rubes. And yeah, most people who are being conned are actively hostile to people who point that out.

I noticed this line in Romney's speech earlier, and I would bet $100 that many of his voters would say this applied to a lot of the Republicans they've voted for, but especially Romney and Bush: "Here's what I know: Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud," Romney said. "His promises are as worthless as a degree from Trump University. He's playing members of the American public for suckers: He gets a free ride to the White House, and all we get is a lousy hat."
posted by dialetheia at 7:18 PM on March 3, 2016 [9 favorites]

It is endlessly disgusting to me that republicans tell these sob stories as though they weren't the manufacturers of this situation in the first place.
posted by zug at 7:18 PM on March 3, 2016 [20 favorites]

Why would they do that and bring attention to a Republican scandal?
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:18 PM on March 3, 2016

I'm surprised Ted Cruz's face booger doesn't have its own Twitter account
posted by zutalors! at 7:19 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Kasich is doing well IMO. This whole thing is so interesting.
posted by Lyme Drop at 7:19 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

oh fuck social issues next
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:19 PM on March 3, 2016

Trump tomorrow to supporters: 'See, I told you you can't trust Fox.'

*supporters go wild*
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:19 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

tl;dr

Everyone else is shitty. Nothing has been discussed other that how horrible the other guy has been.
posted by cmfletcher at 7:19 PM on March 3, 2016

I think the Donald's diaper is full and he needs a nap. He looks like he is having less and less fun.

His next rally will twist/spin all this and I actually think he might go independent if he is really serious about all this.
posted by futz at 7:20 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

"Head to head" snort
posted by nubs at 7:20 PM on March 3, 2016

Even if they kill the Donald they just make it months of Cruz versus Rubio.
That's if this pileon doesn't just turn Trump's supporters further against them.
posted by fullerine at 7:20 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Hilarious ad placement given the Trump University matter: Liberty University, twice now
posted by carmicha at 7:20 PM on March 3, 2016

Donald's diaper is full

We've now discussed the front and back of his nether regions

I remember when someone asking Clinton "boxers or briefs" in a town hall was cause for blushes
posted by zutalors! at 7:21 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Understand your filters. Learn to adopt the enemies worldview. Trump may be getting hammered, but this will steel the resolve of those disenfranchised voters who see him as thier savior, their avatar, their champion. The more he is attacked, especially by the media machine, the more power he will gain. God(s) help me, I want to be wrong. Please let me be wrong.
posted by daq at 7:21 PM on March 3, 2016

We just had a commercial about Trump University, actually. The tag line was "don't let him do to the country what he did to me."
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:22 PM on March 3, 2016

All of these people are evil. Including the establishment, which is revealing today that it is willing to go to any lengths not to lose power. I hate Trump, but what Fox is doing here is pretty anti-democratic and ugly; it really shows the danger of having all our media run by private corporations, with no neutral venue to simply have a debate. I have a feeling the next couple months will make the super-delegate BS and DWS shenanigans look like small potatoes.
posted by chortly at 7:23 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

Go Michigan, making income inequality your #1 issue!
posted by zug at 7:23 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Flint!

Fuck you Cruz!
posted by futz at 7:23 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

@GailSimone : Let's see...guy who stretches the truth, orange guy, flaming asshole, and Invisible person, IT'S THE FANTASTIC FOUR!
posted by zombieflanders at 7:23 PM on March 3, 2016 [12 favorites]

WITHOUT GIVING IN TO THE BLAME GAME! BECAUSE A REPUBLICAN BLEW IT SO FUCKING HARD!
posted by Talez at 7:23 PM on March 3, 2016

They're finally talking about Flint, but "without getting into the political blame game." FFS.
posted by homunculus at 7:23 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm not sure how Flint is a "social issue"
posted by melissasaurus at 7:23 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

daq,
That's why I'm convinced Trump will go 3rd party if it ends up in a brokered situation. He has the ego and his supporters are so ... enthusiastic that his cult of personality is what is needed.
posted by cmfletcher at 7:24 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I saw "Fast and Furious" in that word cloud. Do even Republicans care about that anymore?
posted by Drinky Die at 7:24 PM on March 3, 2016

Basically what Fox News is giving fiscal conservatives their tacit permission to cross the aisle this once and vote for Clinton. They won't come out and say it directly because she's the devil and they plan on obstructing her as much as they did Obama but they are basically using this hit job as a way of giving people the excuse to not vote straight party Republican.
posted by vuron at 7:24 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Or were they talking about the movie?
posted by Drinky Die at 7:24 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Rubio: the problem with Flint is how the Democrats are playing the blame game.
posted by homunculus at 7:24 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

Is Rubio high or just fucking stupid? We're not complaining about them waking up in the morning and saying "let's poision some kids". We're complaining because someone with a brain pointed out that they fucked up and instead of immediately fixing shit they worried about how to hide it and save their own political skins.

So fuck you, Marco Rubio.
posted by Talez at 7:25 PM on March 3, 2016 [11 favorites]

Let's dispel with this notion Snyder knew what he was doing, he knew nothing about what he was doing.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:25 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm not sure how Flint is a "social issue"

it's a black majority city.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:25 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I wonder what Kasich is daydreaming about as he stares off into space, ignored.

Probably how to further erode womens' rights.
posted by Windigo at 7:25 PM on March 3, 2016 [18 favorites]

So fuck you, Marco Rubio.

Yea as soon as he's not attacking Trump I remember how much he sucks
posted by zutalors! at 7:26 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

That Rubio answer was slimy and weaselly as fuck. I'm actually hating him more than the others on stage right now. I don't want anyone telling me he's not a monster after that bullshit.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:26 PM on March 3, 2016 [12 favorites]

I wonder what Kasich is daydreaming about as he stares off into space, ignored.

Probably how to further erode womens' rights.

Probably daydreaming about what the women are making in their kitchens
posted by zutalors! at 7:26 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

> Basically what Fox News is giving fiscal conservatives their tacit permission to cross the aisle this once and vote for Clinton.

I can't see how that's the message. How do you figure?
posted by benito.strauss at 7:26 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

Hilarious ad placement given the Trump University matter: Liberty University, twice now

Tangential to the rip-off theme, Liberty University receives about $800 million (and growing) in federal funding annually.
posted by peeedro at 7:27 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

No one is dealing with the issue of relying on property taxes to fund schools.
posted by carmicha at 7:27 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I have a feeling the next couple months will make the super-delegate BS and DWS shenanigans look like small potatoes.

Whenever the establishment guys (Ryan, McCain, etc) denounce Trump and then say they'll "support the nominee," I can't help but wonder if that means, "Yup, I'll fall into line," or if it means "The fix is already in."

And I can't tell which is worse, except for how one of those outcomes at least still undermines Trump.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:27 PM on March 3, 2016

If Republicans were smart they'd fucking leave Snyder out in the cold as a way of cutting their losses.

Defending him just makes them look like tools. I mean they are tools but they could do a better job of hiding it.
posted by vuron at 7:27 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

60 years of failed left wing policies. I want to punch him in his smug fucking face.
posted by Talez at 7:28 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

He didn't ask for a history of Detroit, Ted. He asked how YOU would bring manufacturing back to the US.
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:28 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

These guys are totally unprepared to answer the flint question. And inhuman to boot. Fuck 'em all.
posted by futz at 7:28 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

Basically what Fox News is giving fiscal conservatives their tacit permission to cross the aisle this once and vote for Clinton.

Nah. They're trying to weaken Trump but not favoring any of the others because they want a brokered convention. It's now in their best interests to keep Cruz, Rubio, and Kasich going until the bitter end so that they can force a second ballot and steal the election.
posted by dialetheia at 7:28 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

What a completely bogus reading of Detroit/auto industry history!
posted by carmicha at 7:28 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I can't even stand this liberals-ruined-detroit thing. My brain is shutting down. Going into sleep mode. I think I'm now dead from disingenuous.
posted by dis_integration at 7:29 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

Someone needs to tell the camerafolks that the whole point of seating the five African-Americans the debate organizers could locate wandering the streets of Detroit was so that THE CAMERA DOES NOT PAN OVER PALE WHITE AUDIENCES.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:29 PM on March 3, 2016

I linked to this image in he other thread... I'm not usually good at predictions...
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:29 PM on March 3, 2016

Driven the citizens out? White flight yo.
posted by zutalors! at 7:29 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Had a chance to answer and didn't.
posted by cmfletcher at 7:29 PM on March 3, 2016

Whoever wins, we lose
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 7:29 PM on March 3, 2016

That's not how the economy works, Ted. That's not how any of this works.
posted by carmicha at 7:29 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Funny how all the white folks managed to flee to the suburbs to escape the horrible left wing policies. I wonder why that happened?
posted by Drinky Die at 7:30 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

If Trump actually fails to get 50% of the delegates, I don't see how it would be unfair or shenanigans for the party to choose someone else. That's how the process is supposed to work, if noone can get a majority of the delegates, no one earned the nomination, and then the party decides.
posted by skewed at 7:30 PM on March 3, 2016

Oh no. It's Jesus sweepstakes time.
posted by carmicha at 7:31 PM on March 3, 2016

Only one question about Flint, and only to Rubio.

Can we go back to that part where Trump wants to abolish the EPA?

Late-breaking (no longer on Flint): Cruz attacks the EPA too.

But I don't suppose anyone at Fox News would bring up what the EPA's role in Flint should have been.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 7:31 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

How would you fix manufacturing jobs? Is it tax cuts? Of fucking course it's tax cuts.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:31 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

the purposeful shutting out of African Americans from manufacturing, therefore trapping them in the inner city, makes me so upset but these people's alternate theory sounds plausible to people who know nothing
posted by zutalors! at 7:31 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I wish they would challenge Cruz on his bullshit show as much as they challenged Trump.
posted by chaoticgood at 7:31 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

It's not stomping on people's rights that's the problem... it's people going to court about it.
posted by carmicha at 7:32 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Kasich: We need to be more tolerant. You know, of bigots.
posted by Lyme Drop at 7:32 PM on March 3, 2016 [7 favorites]

Kasich said "a whole nother." Oof
posted by dhens at 7:32 PM on March 3, 2016

Tolearance for bigots. Take that, you libtards!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:32 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Common sense from back in the day worked less well for gay people, Mr. Kasich!
posted by Drinky Die at 7:33 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Tolerance says kasich? For those who think he is the most moderate of the bunch please don't be fooled. Do some research.
posted by futz at 7:33 PM on March 3, 2016 [11 favorites]

A brokered convention would also make for good TV.

Never forget how the media made Obama vs Romney in 2012 into some nail-biter race when the real outcome was never remotely in doubt. The drama is in their best interests. It's one of the things that make this whole thing so maddening for me. The truth of all this is buried under a lot of drama and hype designed to keep you watching.

I just don't even know how they think they're gonna get to a brokered convention in the first place. Seems pretty clear to me that Trump will walk in with enough delegates to run the table from the start.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:33 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Ted Cruz will never compromise CHRISTIAN religious liberty. Everybody else go fuck yourselves.
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:34 PM on March 3, 2016

"Unelected judges," he said at the same time he advocated not allowing a judge to be confirmed until after an election.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:34 PM on March 3, 2016 [9 favorites]

I get the creepy crawlies when Cruz makes eye contact with the camera.
posted by danapiper at 7:34 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

To be totally fair, the democratic political machine in Detroit was incredibly corrupt... they could have at least done a better job of responding to the entirely foreseeable decline in manufacturing.
posted by zug at 7:34 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

"We should be more tolerant of people" keeping in mind that you know GLBT and minorities are actually subhuman and not worthy of tolerance and respect.
posted by vuron at 7:35 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I wish they would ask Cruz to defend his Constitutional eligibility to run for President, as an originalist.
posted by carmicha at 7:35 PM on March 3, 2016

the democratic political machine in Detroit

Next you'll be telling me Daley was a liberal.
posted by dis_integration at 7:36 PM on March 3, 2016

Shocker
posted by johnpowell at 7:36 PM on March 3, 2016

Marco, that's a pretty old bumper sticker.
posted by klarck at 7:36 PM on March 3, 2016

not guns, arms.

Define arms please.
posted by cmfletcher at 7:36 PM on March 3, 2016

"We should be more tolerant of people" keeping in mind that you know GLBT and minorities are actually subhuman and not worthy of tolerance and respect.

And women.
posted by futz at 7:36 PM on March 3, 2016

I get the creepy crawlies when Cruz makes eye contact with the camera.

"Look at me. Look at me! I'm the presumptive nominee now."
posted by zombieflanders at 7:36 PM on March 3, 2016

Criminals will not follow the law, so legalize murder.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:36 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

I get the creepy crawlies when Cruz makes eye contact with the camera.

There's a flicky hand motion you can do at the screen to ward off that feeling.
posted by cashman at 7:37 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

The more Trump says "anymore" the weaker his support is going to get (IMHO)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:37 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

All I can think of is that scene in Predator where Jesse Ventura gets killed and his buddy the bald dude grabs his mini gun and starts firing wildly into the jungle and then Arnie and everyone else starts firing randomly at nothing for like a half hour
posted by Existential Dread at 7:37 PM on March 3, 2016 [9 favorites]

"I love the second amendment so much I want to marry it." - Ted Cruz
posted by Lyme Drop at 7:38 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I get the creepy crawlies when Cruz makes eye contact with the camera.

It's been linked here before, but: Neurologist explains why it's hard to look at Cruz's creepy, unsettling face
posted by dialetheia at 7:38 PM on March 3, 2016

I get the creepy crawlies when Cruz makes eye contact with the camera.

i remember my sexual awakening
my sweaty mushroom awakening
welcome
we meet at hojos
the one by the highway
not the good one
room 316
tell them chanterelle sent you
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:39 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

"I love the second amendment so much I want to marry it." - Ted Cruz

Wait, srsly?
posted by OmieWise at 7:39 PM on March 3, 2016

"I love the second amendment so much I want to marry it." - Ted Cruz

Ok, Senator Cruz, but could you square that argument with your stance on gay marriage? If we let you marry an amendment, don't we have to let everybody else marry who or whatever they want?
posted by nubs at 7:39 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Little Marco has jokes!
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:39 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

OK, that Rubio quip was pretty good.
posted by defenestration at 7:39 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

what was the yoga comment?
posted by futz at 7:39 PM on March 3, 2016

Zing goes Rubio!
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 7:40 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Is it just me, or does it seem like Cruz has some pre-programmed lines to pivot to?
posted by nubs at 7:40 PM on March 3, 2016

Marco Rubio would make a good candidate for president of a fraternity.
posted by Lyme Drop at 7:40 PM on March 3, 2016 [8 favorites]

Okay Rubio scored hard on the flexible line, that was off the cuff.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:40 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

If Trump did do yoga, he'd be the greatest, serenest yogi ever.
posted by homunculus at 7:41 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Rubio literally thinks the amendments are listed in order of importance.

So preventing the quartering of soldiers is more important than ending slavery. Obviously.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:41 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

The yoga comment was in response to all the talk about breathing.
posted by Lyme Drop at 7:41 PM on March 3, 2016

what was the yoga comment?


He's so flexible.

Yuck, yuck, yuck.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:41 PM on March 3, 2016

what was the yoga comment?

The Singularity!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:41 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Cruz to Trump: breath breath breath
Marco: When you two are done with the yoga...
Cruz: I hope we don't see yoga on this stage.
Marco: Well he's so flexible...
posted by bluecore at 7:41 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

So preventing the quartering of soldiers is more important than ending slavery. Obviously.

Hillary's terrible record on defending the 3rd is the main reason I oppose her. Nobody takes this danger seriously, damn it.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:42 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

"I love the second amendment so much I want to marry it." - Ted Cruz

Wait, srsly?

No.
posted by Lyme Drop at 7:42 PM on March 3, 2016

So preventing the quartering of soldiers is more important than ending slavery. Obviously.

The sad thing is, there are a lot of people that actually believe this.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:42 PM on March 3, 2016

I'm watching the feed on livenewschat.eu, and when there's an ad they start playing dentist's waiting room music from 1979: Fleetwood Mac, Steve Miller Band, etc. It makes my molars wince in anticipation.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:43 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Wait, srsly?

No.

Shit!
posted by OmieWise at 7:43 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Okay Rubio scored hard on the flexible line, that was off the cuff.

That was a great line.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:44 PM on March 3, 2016

The sad thing is, there are a lot of people that actually believe this.


Such as the Founding Fathers.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:44 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

MARCO RUBIO FEELS GREAT WHEN YOUNG PEOPLE COME
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:44 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

If we allow man and amendment marriage, what follows?
posted by cmfletcher at 7:44 PM on March 3, 2016

So preventing the quartering of soldiers is more important than ending slavery. Obviously.

The sad thing is, there are a lot of people that actually believe this.

Nearly 20 percent of Trump’s supporters disapprove of Lincoln freeing the slaves
posted by homunculus at 7:45 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Okay Rubio scored hard on the flexible line, that was off the cuff.

That was a great line.

Deadpan, off camera, too.

Mic drop Rubio.
posted by zutalors! at 7:45 PM on March 3, 2016

The candidates and the moderators ambushing Trump is not going to reach his followers.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:45 PM on March 3, 2016

BTW, here's attorney Ted Cruz making a liar out of Senator/candidateTed Cruz on gun control.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:45 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm glad Fox News decided to have a three-person debate. Involving four candidates would have been too confusing.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 7:47 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Are we still on social issues?
posted by cmfletcher at 7:48 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

We're on Trick Questions, apparently.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:49 PM on March 3, 2016

Lets take a moment to pause and remember Ted Cruz likes to eat hair.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:49 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

Wait, weren't the North Korea sanctions the result of UN action, not Congress?
posted by carmicha at 7:49 PM on March 3, 2016

I miss the palette cleansing Ben Carson.

ANGRY
ALSO ANGRY
Hey maybe pyramids hold grain like in Civ II
LESS ANGRY
WAIT
CONFUSED
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:49 PM on March 3, 2016 [18 favorites]

>> what was the yoga comment?

> The Singularity!

Ahem: The Aristocrats!
posted by Westringia F. at 7:50 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I hate to say it but I miss Ben Carson with his insane "aliens built the pyramids to store grain" takes. Really rounded out that "3am A.M. radio" feel.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:50 PM on March 3, 2016 [11 favorites]

They've done a fine job making Trump look like a buffoon, but I can't help but think that the Trumpeteers are all going to call shenanigans and dig in their heels even more. Cruz and Rubio are answering like they were handed cheat sheets ahead of time, and Trump was put on the spot way more than anyone else.
posted by chaoticgood at 7:50 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I feel like you could replace Kasich with Jeb Bush and no one would notice.
posted by zutalors! at 7:50 PM on March 3, 2016

bluecore: Cruz to Trump: breath breath breath

Oops, breathe. Embarrassing.
posted by bluecore at 7:51 PM on March 3, 2016

"I'm going to take you very quickly." Oh Mr. Kasich.
posted by nubs at 7:51 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Kasich had a good parry of a dumb question.
posted by peeedro at 7:51 PM on March 3, 2016

> The Aristocrats!

Come to think of it, that works to describe this entire farce on so many levels....
posted by Westringia F. at 7:51 PM on March 3, 2016

I miss Carson just for the relief from yelling he provided.
posted by carmicha at 7:51 PM on March 3, 2016

I'm just imagining Scott Walker crying over both dropping out so soon and having been completely forgotten.

It feels good.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:52 PM on March 3, 2016 [10 favorites]

Wisconsinite here: Scott Walker is fast approaching Bobby Jindahl levels of popularity.
posted by carmicha at 7:53 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

While you watch the commercials, consider this irrelevant pie chart. Thanks Fox.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:53 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump: wouldn't it be nice if we could get along with the rest of the world for a change? (In regards to Putin)

minorities, women, and almost everyone else who isn't a racist xenophobic asshole: uh....
posted by futz at 7:53 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

NEUMAN!

Also... I kow I'm late...

##### DEBATE THREAD DECLARED #####
posted by PROD_TPSL at 7:53 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

Trump gets along with Putin because Trump admires Putin's capacity to simply have political enemies and critical journalists assassinated.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 7:54 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

hey I just got home, have I missed anything
posted by triggerfinger at 7:55 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

but I can't help but think that the Trumpeteers are all going to call shenanigans and dig in their heels even more.

From Chris Hedges:

These Americans want a kind of freedom—a freedom to hate. They want the freedom to use words like “nigger,” “kike,” “spic,” “chink,” “raghead” and “fag.” They want the freedom to idealize violence and the gun culture. They want the freedom to have enemies, to physically assault Muslims, undocumented workers, African-Americans, homosexuals and anyone who dares criticize their cryptofascism. They want the freedom to celebrate historical movements and figures that the college-educated elites condemn, including the Ku Klux Klan and the Confederacy. They want the freedom to ridicule and dismiss intellectuals, ideas, science and culture. They want the freedom to silence those who have been telling them how to behave. And they want the freedom to revel in hypermasculinity, racism, sexism and white patriarchy. These are the core sentiments of fascism.

posted by MonkeyToes at 7:56 PM on March 3, 2016 [23 favorites]

hey I just got home, have I missed anything

Trump has a big dick and Cruz eats boogers.
posted by homunculus at 7:56 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

hey I just got home, have I missed anything

Trump released his schlong form girth certificate.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:56 PM on March 3, 2016 [39 favorites]

Beeeenghaaaaaazi.
posted by Justinian at 7:56 PM on March 3, 2016

BENGHAZI!
posted by Lyme Drop at 7:56 PM on March 3, 2016

Trump gonna say he will support Donald J. Trump.
posted by cmfletcher at 7:56 PM on March 3, 2016

"Move to a socialist country"
Trying to Marco, trying to.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:56 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

During this latest break, Livenewschat.eu feed played Gary Numan's Are 'Friends' Electric?

Nice.
posted by Mister Bijou at 7:57 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

No kidding, but I'm a bit of an insomniac due to racing thoughts and one of the thought refocus things that help me fall asleep at night is imagining the havoc I could wreck on the GOP candidates if I had the power to phase, invisibly through solid matter.

Rubio's pants fall down a lot. Cruz gets weird stains. Trump gets egged on in his ear. Kasich gets forgotten.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:57 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Yes, ending the whole thing on the one question that completely undercuts all the takedowns.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:57 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

So Rubio just pledged to support Trump if he becomes the nominee. His complete and utter failure as a candidate and tbh a human being is complete.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:58 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

B
E
N
G
H
A
Z
I hope this is over soon
posted by dialetheia at 7:58 PM on March 3, 2016 [7 favorites]

hey I just got home, have I missed anything

Nah. Business as usual.
posted by futz at 7:58 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

They've done a fine job making Trump look like a buffoon, but I can't help but think that the Trumpeteers are all going to call shenanigans and dig in their heels even more.

Nothing can reach the trumpeteers. This is about reaching all of the people who keep popping in here to say things like "I don't think Trump is really that much of a racist".
posted by mmoncur at 7:59 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

I see we're onto closing statements
posted by triggerfinger at 7:59 PM on March 3, 2016

Donald Trump is a con artist that ripped off American citizens! He is deeply dangerous on foriegn policy! I would vote for him!

-Marco Rubio
posted by Drinky Die at 7:59 PM on March 3, 2016 [22 favorites]

Oh man, they think they trapped Trump with the "I will not run" stuff - that means he can opine as much as he likes and does not have to actually do the work.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:59 PM on March 3, 2016

Holy shit you guys Blade Runner is finally on netflix streaming

Let's go
posted by Existential Dread at 7:59 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

What the fuck was the point of this entire thing if FOX was going to end by asking the other 3 to pledge support for Trump when he wins? Did that not just undermine 2 hours of attacks against him and Mittens' speech?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:00 PM on March 3, 2016 [8 favorites]

We haven't left anyone behind! Except women, who are in the kitchen. Kasich
posted by carmicha at 8:00 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

and tbh a human being

CITATION NEEDED, HUMANOID.

Donald Trump is a con artist that ripped off American citizens! He is deeply dangerous on foriegn policy! I would vote for him!

Now that's a team player. I guess you never know when you'll need to be on the receiving end of the wingnut welfare system.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:00 PM on March 3, 2016

I thought you said Ben Gazzara. I love that guy.
posted by Trochanter at 8:00 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Cruz is a terrible actor.
posted by carmicha at 8:01 PM on March 3, 2016

Can someone please explain how our military is so depleted? It seems pretty robust to me, but then again I live in a town with 2 navy bases.
posted by hollygoheavy at 8:02 PM on March 3, 2016

I am embarrassed for 'murica. This is a shitshow of epic proportions.
posted by futz at 8:02 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

In retrospect, they should really be running adult content warnings before these debates. Or lack of adult content warnings.

Watching this was a bad idea. My brain has been insulted.

Hey, Netflix Canada has AntMan! That might help.
posted by nubs at 8:02 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

I had the same impression, TD Strange. Seems like it undermines their intended hitjob on Trump.

Or maybe they were hoping the other candidates would say no? Or at least hedge?
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 8:02 PM on March 3, 2016

I'm already proud of this country, GTFO Trump
posted by zutalors! at 8:02 PM on March 3, 2016

Cruz's "I will have your back!" was so utterly creepy... *shudder*
posted by Hairy Lobster at 8:02 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Man... the debate certainly sucked... but the music they have chosen... SPOT ON!

Someone at Fox is doing their fscking job.
posted by PROD_TPSL at 8:03 PM on March 3, 2016

Man... the debate certainly sucked... but the music they have chosen... SPOT ON!

Not watching, so let me guess... O Fortuna?
posted by tonycpsu at 8:04 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Yeah... he'll have their backs... up against a wall... as shells fall, and rockets rise into the sky...

I'm telling you... Cruz is Stillson.
posted by PROD_TPSL at 8:04 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Cruz's "I will have your back!" was so utterly creepy... *shudder*

I will have your back...hair...
posted by zutalors! at 8:04 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

What the fuck was the point of this entire thing if FOX was going to end by asking the other 3 to pledge support for Trump when he wins? Did that not just undermine 2 hours of attacks against him and Mittens' speech?

They wanted him to pinky swear he wouldn't run independent.
After telling everyone he can't be trusted for 2 hours.
posted by fullerine at 8:04 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

Cruz is a terrible actor.

And he needs to sue whomever stole his neck.

I thought at least one of the three would have the courage to say that they would not support Trump, that was a real disappointment and total failure on their part.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:05 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Has there been an Idiocracy rewatch on FanFare?
posted by futz at 8:05 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

Cruz's "I will have your back!" was so utterly creepy... *shudder*


I had the livestream in another tab, but I'm just gonna assume he was miming a backrub while he said it.
posted by defenestration at 8:05 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

did we do it we did it lets not do it again but talking a bout doing it all the time because those that did it done it and deserve it and in summation do it to it
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:05 PM on March 3, 2016

yo, remember when Trump started talking about his dick? what in the fuck
posted by defenestration at 8:06 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

Or maybe they were hoping the other candidates would say no? Or at least hedge?

That had to be it, but none of them went along, it'd be a death sentence to say that out loud. Really, really stupid to make the whole debate such an obvious hatchet job then end on that.

They wanted him to pinky swear he wouldn't run independent.

He's said that before. Then threatened to anyway, and clearly will if he gets shivved at the convention. Holding him to another promise he can easily make and break, when the others can't pledge to tear the party apart for risk of ending their campaign isn't even playing checkers, it's like tic-tac-toe.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:07 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I will say that watching Trump and O'Reilly both trying to not blowhard in the post debate interview is hilarious.
posted by cmfletcher at 8:08 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

that was a real disappointment and total failure on their part.

It should be no surprise that they're observing Lord and Savior Ronald Reagan's 11th Commandment.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:08 PM on March 3, 2016

Has there been an Idiocracy rewatch on FanFare?

Oh lets do that.
posted by cashman at 8:08 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Has there been an Idiocracy rewatch on FanFare?

Come on, the Camacho presidency wasn't perfect but he had the smarts and the leadership skills to listen to his best advisor and implement a forward looking policy. I don't think Trump could live up to that standard.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:08 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]

ooh they're talking about the debate on CNN now

I wonder what the blonde who loves Trump will say. I mean Trump was terrible in this debate.
posted by zutalors! at 8:09 PM on March 3, 2016

Yeah so I'm unfortunately unable to watch the debates tonight as I'm at work. Doing what, you might ask?

Well, I'm a health outreach worker. Tonight I'm helping with HIV/STI testing at a gay bar in suburban Chicago. So I'm sitting in this bar, watching the debate thread on MeFi. Next to my laptop are a handful of condoms and, for demonstration purposes, three very large, realistic-looking silicone dildos.

So I guess I got the same experience, basically?
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:10 PM on March 3, 2016 [33 favorites]

Welp, we just watched two hours of nonsense, capped off by the complete and utter capitulation of the entire GOP lineup to Trump. And fuck anyone who still supports any of these guys after tonight, they are 100% complicit in whatever havoc he wreaks.

Also, I have to wonder what's going on over at Fox News HQ tonight. Either they're sitting around shell-shocked and wondering how they could have blown this thing so bad at the last minute, or they're popping the champagne at having cleared the way.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:11 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

I think I might be more afraid of Trump's army than I am of him.

You should be. You should be very much more scared of the large and growing number of Americans who are lapping up everything he says. There's something afoot in America, and now that it's unleashed and got itself a fake strongman to rally behind, it's not going to go away any time soon, I don't think, whatever the outcome of this tainted election.

A reign of terror needs a figurehead, but the hard work of terrorizing is done on the ground by the acolytes and lickspittles and willing followers. Their numbers are growing. I think it's very wise indeed to be scared of them, particularly if you're a woman, or uncaucasian, or immigrant, or gay or trans or just somebody who doesn't look like they're "from 'round here".
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:11 PM on March 3, 2016 [17 favorites]

I wonder what the blonde who loves Trump will say

Wolf Biltzer?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:11 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Goddamn it, I guess I finally reached the point where all this stopped being funny to me.

I need a beer or 10.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:12 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

Forget the post-debate analysis, I wanna know when Trump Yoga is going to be a thing. "It'll be the best yoga, the absolute best, even my opponents talk about how flexible I am."
posted by nubs at 8:12 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

ok I found it on youtube: I guarantee you there is no problem.

Thanks be to the great big model railroader up in the sky he does not have the physique for Putin-bare-chesting.
posted by bukvich at 8:13 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Bless all of you who watched this so I didn't have to. If any of you are in the greater LA area or I meet any of you at a meetup, I will buy you a drink for this courageous service.
posted by yasaman at 8:13 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

I wonder what the blonde who loves Drumpf will say
Wolf Biltzer?


Her name is Kayleigh McEnany, and she is bananas.
posted by zutalors! at 8:14 PM on March 3, 2016

yasaman, this took years off my life. I hope you appreciate it.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 8:15 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Man, Hair ain't all Cruz eats

Think I'm gonna vomit
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:17 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

The other three candidates are gutless. Romney gave them the cover they needed to refuse to support Trump, but they couldn't do it. Weak men.

And Trump, since he is totally unscrupulous, is taking advantage of their cowardice. All one of them has to do is stand up to Trump, and no one would do it.

Pathetic, weak men.
posted by My Dad at 8:20 PM on March 3, 2016 [14 favorites]

Bless all of you who watched this so I didn't have to.

It was like watching a day in the Stanford Prison Experiment unfold.
posted by cmfletcher at 8:20 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I think it's painfully obvious that that finishing line about Accepting Trump As Your True Savior was the concession that they used to get Trump to play along with a more adversarial debate style. You could see a sort of resigned dealing-with-a middling-compromise tone emanating from Trump, and when they asked him the question at the end, he questioned the exact phrasing--I think he was expecting to hear the identical question, "Will you support Trump?" The host was very deliberate in saying "I'm going to phrase the question to you--" much in the same way you'd say "As the deal dictates, I will follow the letter of the bargain."

Of course ultimately that's still just conjecture on my part. But I think Trump showed up because they dangled that finishing line in front of him (or he presented it as his speaking fee.) Otherwise the Trump that refused Fox News debates in the past would almost certainly have shouted everyone down and appealed to the viewer that he was being smeared.
posted by Phyltre at 8:22 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

There are no jokes. There's just a calming ocean sound in my head. And then, bells ringing.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:23 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Every time I sit through one of these things, I think about how I scoff at those people who make youtube videos where they eat super hot peppers and then feel horrible for a while, and wonder just what the hell makes me think I'm so smart.
posted by cortex at 8:23 PM on March 3, 2016 [17 favorites]

The other three candidates are gutless. Romney gave them the cover they needed to refuse to support Trump, but they couldn't do it. Weak men.

I agree. At least one of them could have demonstrated an ounce of backbone. I was genuinely surprised.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:23 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

It was like watching a day in the Stanford Prison Experiment unfold.

Or the Milgram experiments.
posted by carmicha at 8:23 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

I think about how I scoff at those people who make youtube videos where they eat super hot peppers and then feel horrible for a while

I like the ones where they eat the sugar free gummi bears. It's how I feel after watching Trump for a while.
posted by Justinian at 8:25 PM on March 3, 2016

Every time I sit through one of these things, I think about how I scoff at those people who make youtube videos where they eat super hot peppers and then feel horrible for a while, and wonder just what the hell makes me think I'm so smart.

I was eating takeout Pad Thai I added habanero sauce to during this whole thing.

Am I...am I going to die?
posted by Drinky Die at 8:27 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Well the answer is right in your username I guess?
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:28 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

It's not Eatey Die!
posted by Drinky Die at 8:29 PM on March 3, 2016 [11 favorites]

Drinky... that Dave Weigel tweet...

That headline.

Dammit.

Hell, I want to launch the rockets now. Burn it all and start over.

We're done here.
posted by PROD_TPSL at 8:32 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

My husband noticed I wasn't drinking enough for this, so chose halfway through to say, "Remember, your friends died so they can do this."

In related news, I am now out of tequila.
posted by corb at 8:33 PM on March 3, 2016 [25 favorites]

The debate was totally unpleasant, repugnant, peopled by unscrupulous, rude people.
Kasich-I took part in every stupid thing that led us to this moment. I am expert.
Cruz-Didn't answer questions or take responsibility, just attacked.
Rubio-Playing the pesky kid. (Defined by Trump.)
Trump-Better behaved, barely.

Moderators-Must have made some deals to get anywhere with this.

I missed the last because my elderly friend could no longer tolerate the tone, and agreed they are all a bunch of nasty people. Not one of these candidates can adequately represent the ideals of the US, on the world stage. They are all socially devolutionary players. The world will not be a better place because any one of them, was here. Our nation will not be improved by their guidance.
posted by Oyéah at 8:36 PM on March 3, 2016

I'll drink more bourbon in your honor, corb. I really feel horrible for principled and smart conservatives like you right now. But honestly, I think once he loses this could be a positive turning point towards a slightly less irrational, hateful, and destructive conservative vision then we have had in a long time gaining the spotlight on the right. It's terrifying as hell to stare into the abyss and worry we might topple over though.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:41 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

That was terrible in every possible way, but honestly the dick jokes seemed like an elevation of the discourse compared to the stuff about breaking the Geneva Conventions, deporting 12 million people, eliminating all of our environmental protections, and how it's "partisan" to be outraged about poisoning poor kids with lead.
posted by dialetheia at 8:42 PM on March 3, 2016 [20 favorites]

hey I just got home, have I missed anything

Trump has a big dick and Cruz eats boogers.

What's surprising is that Trump, the patron saint of truth-eschewing braggarts, didn't even manage to call his dick big; he just 'guaranteed' that it's non-problematic vis-a-vis smallness. If his intent in Going There was actually to assert his BSD-ness, that line was pretty mealy-mouthed. Methinks he doth protest too little, y'know??

Cruz definitely eats boogers/tonsiloliths/hair/souls, though.
posted by argonauta at 8:42 PM on March 3, 2016

Our nation will not be improved by their guidance.

______ would not be improved by their guidance. You can pretty much put anything in there and it will be true. A mattress store. A ham sandwich. An office secret santa. A dumpster fire.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:44 PM on March 3, 2016 [19 favorites]

For anyone still watching (I am not) and is looking to be entertained or horrified, Twitter thinks that Bill O'Reilly is absolutely sloshed out of his gourd right now. Slurring and mixing up his words, can't touch his fingers together, slower than usual on the uptake. And you know what, for once, I don't blame him.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:45 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

Has sounded pretty much like he always does to me, not that I have much of a sample size.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:48 PM on March 3, 2016

A mattress store. A ham sandwich. An office secret santa. A dumpster fire.

I can't like this enough. Oh my God, imagine working in an office with any of them. Imagine routine meetings. No, don't do that to yourselves. Sorry.
posted by Oyéah at 8:49 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

What the red blessed fuck did I miss??
posted by prize bull octorok at 8:49 PM on March 3, 2016

Remember in 2000 when everyone got so mad because Al Gore sighed while Bush was talking? Sigh.
posted by dialetheia at 8:49 PM on March 3, 2016 [24 favorites]

Every time Trump would use one of his one-liners, O'Reilly, sneering and deflating, would come back with "Yeah, heard it. Please" or some equivalent of that. It's like watching a cock fight, with all its hissing and brutality.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:50 PM on March 3, 2016

honestly the dick jokes seemed like an elevation of the discourse

Yeah, it's -- indicative, that the myriad obscene ways that Republican policies have hurt or killed literally hundreds of thousands of people here in the US and around the world can be respectfully heard on CNN and NPR and such, but an off-color reference to penises, well that's just not presidential.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:50 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

For anyone still watching (I am not) and is looking to be entertained or horrified, Twitter thinks that Bill O'Reilly is absolutely sloshed out of his gourd right now.

Someone commented that he's just lost custody of his kids over allegations of domestic abuse.
posted by rifflesby at 8:51 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

Question, since we're talking about Fox making deals just to get this to happen:

Does Trump even agree to debates vs. Hillary or Bernie?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:52 PM on March 3, 2016

They can have the debate anyway and just put a chair on the stage opposite the Democratic candidate. As noted upthread I have access to a large dildo, approximately the length and girth of my forearm, which could quite easily stand in for Mr. Trump.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:56 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

The Better Business Bureau report, with an A rating for Trump University.

So what happened here? They changed the name and the complaints stopped coming because nobody knew the name was changed?
posted by Drinky Die at 8:58 PM on March 3, 2016

Ooh ooh I love the empty chair thing. Do the Democrats have a crazy old coot they can cast in the role of Clint Eastwood? Surely they can do better than Alec Baldwin.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:59 PM on March 3, 2016

Joe Biden in an orange wig?
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:00 PM on March 3, 2016

Frank Luntz ✔ ‎@FrankLuntz
My 25-person focus group’s picks for winner tonight:

• @JohnKasich: 18
• @TedCruz: 6
• @realDonaldTrump: 1
• @MarcoRubio: 0
#GOPDebate
posted by Drinky Die at 9:05 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

@FrankLuntz

Apparently reporting from an Ohio Applebees.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:06 PM on March 3, 2016 [15 favorites]

According to factcheck.org, the BBB rating fluctuated between A and D- but now has no rating because it's out of business. So Trump's screenshot is outdated.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:07 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

So I taped the debate because I was out. I'm now watching it from the beginning and holy shit is Fox going at Trump hard. And when they interrupted one of Trump's lies with a chart, the audience full-on cheered. I'm not convinced that they didn't deliberately pack a bunch of Trump haters in there alongside the fan club.
posted by triggerfinger at 9:08 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

I've lost the link, but the funniest thing I've seen today has been a tweet (not directed at Trump, sadly) demanding his 'schlong form girth certificate'.

There's been entirely too much penis talk in this thread already, so I apologize, but you gots to take your laffs where you finds 'em.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:09 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

Somewhere in the San Fernando Valley, a studio just greenlit an Obama porn parody.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:12 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

See how beautiful my hands are. They're powerful hands - Trump to me in spin room
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:14 PM on March 3, 2016

Rubio is selling DumpTrump yoga pants now.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:18 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

"Question, since we're talking about Fox making deals just to get this to happen:
Does Trump even agree to debates vs. Hillary or Bernie?"

if Scully can spike cancerman with stink loads, yes.
posted by clavdivs at 9:18 PM on March 3, 2016

Rubio is selling DumpTrump yoga pants now.

Hahaha that might be the most Rubio thing ever - the yoga pants don't even really exist! Classic.

"Note: you won't actually get #DumpTrump yoga pants, but your $10 donation will help Marco stop him."
posted by dialetheia at 9:21 PM on March 3, 2016 [7 favorites]

Rubio... clearly a candidate that is all vaporware.
posted by PROD_TPSL at 9:22 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

"il nous faut de l'audace, et encore de l'audace, et toujours de l'audace!"

-George Danton.
posted by clavdivs at 9:23 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

"Note: you won't actually get #DumpTrump yoga pants, but your $10 donation will help Marco stop him."

Imaginarily made in America I hope
posted by zutalors! at 9:31 PM on March 3, 2016 [7 favorites]

The photoshop was done overseas with sweatshopstudio labor, so it's all good.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:36 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

So in the end I think this was a Rocky moment for Trump. He certainly didn't win, but he didn't lose either. He took every punch and was still standing at the end. They needed to knock him out. The establishment is going to have to take it to the convention if they want to stop him at this point.

This all seems like it was presaged by the fight for the Speaker job, in that situation Ryan stepped in as the saviour...I'm not sure Romney has the same pull and I know none of these candidates really has it. It's going to be a disaster. This party has moved on from being uncompromising with Democrats to being uncompromising with itself.
posted by Drinky Die at 9:38 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

No matter what happens, the Republican Party is hurtling toward disaster
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:44 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]

[schadenfreude intensifies]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:49 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

The Carl Diggler Debate Report Card should not be missed.
posted by My Dad at 9:54 PM on March 3, 2016 [7 favorites]

Me and Yglesias have some sort of mind meld going on tonight, agree exactly with that article.

It was shocking, for example, to see Fox News anchors pointing out that Trump's tax plan isn't remotely paid for. This is entirely true, but it's equally true of every other GOP tax plan of the past 15 years and it never seemed to bother Fox before.
posted by Drinky Die at 9:55 PM on March 3, 2016 [10 favorites]

From twitter- @HillaryClinton: How many more of these do we have to sit through? Asking for a friend.

I didn't even know these feckers were in my hometown area until tonight. And I have no idea how other progressives are able to watch stuff like this time after time. I don't. I've also cut back on social media and political threads. It's bad enough that at my already dumb job I have to hear the occasional pro-R comment.

AND I'm anticipating a long day of Bite My Tongue at my precinct worker gig next week.
posted by NorthernLite at 10:03 PM on March 3, 2016

Cruz to Trump: breathe breathe breathe
Marco: When you two are done with the yoga...
Cruz: I hope we don't see yoga on this stage.
Marco: Well he's so flexible...

I'd be interested to know whether one of their campaigns wrote this and got the other to agree to it, or whether they wrote it together. It was a great line by Rubio, but the timing between the two of them was too perfect not to have been rehearsed. (And it was cleverly set up as "natural" by the fact that Cruz had already used the "breathe" line earlier in the debate.)
posted by dersins at 10:36 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

If you ever find yourself feeling skeptical about how deeply entrenched patriarchy is in our country - if even literal debates about penis sizes leave you wondering if maybe that's just an aberration or a silly bit of nonsense - then I encourage you to contemplate this fact:

A goodly portion of the most powerful Republicans in this nation have decided that Donald Trump must be stopped at any cost; the candidates in the debate gleefully stoop to his level, somethi they wouldn't have dreamed of even a month ago, calling into question his manhood and uttering silly insults about his orange face, all in the mad rush to keep him from power; calculated speeches are made intended to introduce every possible line of attack, speaking of his questionable business deals, his shoddy management skills, his inveterate hucksterism, vainly trying every possible angle to point him up as a terrible candidate and a terrible man...

... and yet somehow, not a single Republican has seen fit to point out that brutally raped his ex-wife Ivana - according to her own detailed account, the particulars of which she hasn't even denied; she's only clarified later after their divorce was settled that it wasn't criminal rape (apparently it was some form of non-criminal rape for which she has understandably agreed not to press criminal charges.)

Seriously - nobody is willing to mention this, as dirty as they claim they're willing to get. A bridge too far. Personal attacks are one thing, but actual woman-victimizing history? Too much.
posted by koeselitz at 11:26 PM on March 3, 2016 [21 favorites]

The Carl Diggler Debate Report Card should not be missed.

WASH YOUR FUCKING HANDS!
posted by fullerine at 11:29 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

im officially announcing my Vandadiacy fot Der presoednt of the United stes in 2024.

"Together, we can 'splain this thing"
posted by clavdivs at 11:41 PM on March 3, 2016

Andy Jackson campaigned with a brace of pistols.

Donald wears Gucci body armor.

Lincoln had to sneak part of the way into Washington.

Donald did the same, more or less.

Nixon had Rumsfeld behind him
And Ford and Bush and Bush.

Trump has Chris Christie looking like security.

What's his name built Ike a golf course.

Trump builds them so the wanna-boughie can clink glass, then fire the dishwasher.

The man has hair that belongs to A Star Trek exhibit, holy smokes, get Mudd to comb that thing it's like Alfs' hair ball over here.

Shits easy and fun. But I long for the easy days when a hole in the shoe costs you the presidency.
posted by clavdivs at 11:55 PM on March 3, 2016

The Onion predicted the news about Trump's penis back in 2012.

Why is that a sentence which now makes sense?
posted by Rangi at 1:51 AM on March 4, 2016 [7 favorites]

I have a feeling the two takeaways from this debate will be Penisgate and MouthThinggate
posted by angrycat at 3:08 AM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

Did the "Snowden is a spy" thing jump out at anyone else? That really rattled me to my bones. I am sympathetic to (but absolutely do not agree with) the argument that his actions were traitorous and exposed classified information.

But to make the leap to "he's working for the Russians, obvs" seems to me to be signaling a return to McCarthy-level red baiting, and that really terrifies the shit out of me, and should do the same for everyone else on the left.

Is this a thing that's been out there for some time in certain right-wing circles, or is this a new meme getting legs more recently?
posted by mostly vowels at 4:14 AM on March 4, 2016 [4 favorites]

That was terrible in every possible way, but honestly the dick jokes seemed like an elevation of the discourse compared to the stuff about breaking the Geneva Conventions, deporting 12 million people, eliminating all of our environmental protections, and how it's "partisan" to be outraged about poisoning poor kids with lead.

Cock talk: Why I never!

Carpet bombing: ehh
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:55 AM on March 4, 2016 [7 favorites]

Is this a thing that's been out there for some time in certain right-wing circles, or is this a new meme getting legs more recently?

As soon as he popped up in Russia, that was the refrain.
posted by Etrigan at 7:12 AM on March 4, 2016

Shits easy and fun. But I long for the easy days when a hole in the shoe costs you the presidency.

Remember when Nixon lost the debate with Kennedy because he hadn't mastered the new medium of television? He had five o'clock shadow and a moist upper lip. People listening on the radio thought he had won.
posted by My Dad at 7:14 AM on March 4, 2016

Yea and then Ted Cruz ate some crap that was sitting on his face
posted by zutalors! at 7:22 AM on March 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

Yea and then Ted Cruz ate some crap that was sitting on his face

That (if it was recorded) should truly become the gif of the century.
posted by Trochanter at 7:26 AM on March 4, 2016

BoogerGate, via.
posted by Rat Spatula at 7:29 AM on March 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

clavdivs: "But I long for the easy days when a hole in the shoe costs you the presidency."

I don't see how the hole in his shoe cost Stevenson the election. His campaign specifically seized on the photo as a way to fight his "egghead" image. It didn't work, admittedly, but I can't see how it lost him votes.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:35 AM on March 4, 2016

Cruz is like a vampire, but for boogers.
posted by ian1977 at 7:39 AM on March 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

“Eggheads of the world, unite; you have nothing to lose but your yolks.”
posted by bukvich at 7:40 AM on March 4, 2016

Remember when Nixon lost the debate with Kennedy because he hadn't mastered the new medium of television? He had five o'clock shadow and a moist upper lip. People listening on the radio thought he had won.

Mostly debunked as myth. The radio polling sample was quite small and biased to a rural Republican population. There is no doubt that Kennedy won the style aspect, but the idea that radio audiences thought Nixon won on substance is not supported by the evidence. Nixon simply did not do very well in the debates, on style or substance.
posted by JackFlash at 7:42 AM on March 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

Did the "Snowden is a spy" thing jump out at anyone else? That really rattled me to my bones. I am sympathetic to (but absolutely do not agree with) the argument that his actions were traitorous and exposed classified information.

Anytime I hear any politician say "Snowden" I tune out whatever comes after because I'm sure I won't agree with it.
posted by zutalors! at 7:47 AM on March 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

Donald Trump’s Policies Are Not Anathema to U.S. Mainstream but an Uncomfortable Reflection of It
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 7:48 AM on March 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

Mostly debunked as myth.

Oh come on, work with me here. Live a little.
posted by My Dad at 8:23 AM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

I had the most bizarre dream last night, let me see if I can explain it:

One pill makes hands bigger
And one pill makes hands small
And the degrees Trump U gives you
Don't do anything at all
Go ask Marco
If his campaign should stall

And if you go chasing voters
And you know you're going to fall
Tell them a brokered summer convention is where you plan to brawl
Call Mittens
He'll help you forestall

When the men in the back rooms
Get up and tell you where to go
And you just ate some kind of face crust
And you can't handle your foe
Go ask Teddy
I think he'll know

When logic and proportion
Have fallen sloppy dead
And the Fox News is talking backwards
And you think you're off your meds
Remember what the Donald said



Oh wait, that wasn't a dream, that was just yesterday.
posted by nubs at 8:44 AM on March 4, 2016 [27 favorites]

And you just ate some kind of face crust

Why didn't he just wipe his mouth? Ugh. and how big was that thing?
posted by zutalors! at 8:45 AM on March 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

Here's the thing. Ted Cruz is a reprehensible human being. Virtually every policy he espouses is hateful and would be disastrous for the country. And on a personal level, he is apparently despised by virtually every person he has ever met.

But I'm still not comfortable with all the snarky comments over his face. He *is* pretty odd-looking, but it's the face he was born with. It's not even a borderline thing like Trump's hair, where Trump chose to style it that way.

Maybe we could just stick to substantive criticism about Cruz?
posted by Chrysostom at 8:55 AM on March 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

I still can't get over the whole "the US military would disobey Trump if he ordered torture" thing.

Why is this an issue today? Did they disobey Bush when torture clearly violated the US army manual and the Geneva conventions? What about when Bush ordered an illegal war of aggression against a country that had not attacked us or any or our allies? Or today, right now, as we speak, as the US indiscriminately bombs wedding parties in Yemen on a weekly basis? The US military didn't so much as blink when those orders came down, and the few generals who balked were quickly ordered out of power. They would do the same thing under Trump. Trump's only crime here is he said what everyone knows to be true.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:55 AM on March 4, 2016 [7 favorites]

Why didn't he just wipe his mouth?

Probably assumed -- incorrectly, it turns out -- that it would call attention to the problem more than what he wound up doing.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:56 AM on March 4, 2016

Yes, thank you, a lot of us did disobey illegal orders, and many saw jail time, article 15s, or a slow end to our careers for it. Just because you don't see it on the news didn't mean it didn't happen. Many, many soldiers refused to commit war crimes, and many, many soldiers would refuse to round up American citizens under Trump.
posted by corb at 9:07 AM on March 4, 2016 [21 favorites]

One of the youngins was trying to escape from his maggot sac. He was just gently scooping her up and putting her back in the nursery.
posted by ian1977 at 9:12 AM on March 4, 2016 [6 favorites]

Does that not prove my point? The few that did would be swiftly court martialed, and the vast majority would do as the military has always done and is doing today, follow orders, legal or not.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:13 AM on March 4, 2016

I think you underestimate the military if you think so many of them would be ready to round up American citizens. I'm not saying my brothers and sisters in arms are always the best about foreign wars, but I guarantee you the overwhelming majority knows camps in the US are wrong.
posted by corb at 9:17 AM on March 4, 2016 [4 favorites]

But I'm still not comfortable with all the snarky comments over his face. He *is* pretty odd-looking, but it's the face he was born with. It's not even a borderline thing like Trump's hair, where Trump chose to style it that way.

Maybe we could just stick to substantive criticism about Cruz?

I'm not making fun of his face, I'm making fun of the crust on his face that he awkwardly ate instead of wiping off. It was a pretty striking and public moment.

I think it's fair game honestly. I mean, this actual post is about a parody video where Ted Cruz says he eats hair and reads bedtime stories to his children about setting fire to things with gasoline and running away. I don't see what's so terrible about the jokes.
posted by zutalors! at 9:23 AM on March 4, 2016 [5 favorites]

Who said anything about rounding up citizens? You're putting up a strawman. Trump wants to round up and deport people who are pointedly *not* citizens, and reinstitute torture as an interrogation tactic. You can say the military wouldn't go along with an "illegal" order to do so, without even getting into the question of what happens if Trump's new pet lawyers at OLC say it's all legal again like Bush's did, but all evidence suggest otherwise, as they have before, and are doing so as we speak even under Obama. Your say-so, or that of even a few active duty generals, is insufficient when we have decades of contrary evidence.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:25 AM on March 4, 2016 [6 favorites]

Even the criticism of Cruz's face isn't a commentary on his personal attractiveness or how well he does/does not conform to societal norms. It's about how a lifetime of smug awfulness seems to have written itself into very visage. You could show that mug to someone who'd never heard of him and ten gets you twenty, their reaction is going to be that he looks smug and awful. It's the same with Pharma Bro.

We regularly comment that someone's face exudes kindness or humor or intelligence. Even if it might seem unkind, the reverse of that is necessarily going to happen sometimes, too.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:27 AM on March 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm not making fun of his face, I'm making fun of the crust on his face that he awkwardly ate instead of wiping off.

I wasn't speaking in reference to your comment, I was talking about the multiple comments about his "weird" or "punchable" face.

(on preview) I take your point, DirtyOldtown, but I still think we do ourselves a disservice when we focus on appearance rather than substance. Even when it is a huge jerk like Ted Cruz.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:29 AM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

Corb, I haven't personally been in the military but both my parents and the majority of my family are retired Navy. One thing that I've always heard is that boot camp is all about breaking people down in order to elicit blind obediance to any and all orders. I just really wonder how a 20 year old kid who doesn't have a deeply entrenched personality yet would be able to resist a direct order, or even know if it's illegal or not. All Trump would need is a few admirals and generals who agree with him and I do think that there are quite a few young service people who would just follow orders without questions.
posted by hollygoheavy at 9:31 AM on March 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

The US military didn't so much as blink when those orders came down, and the few generals who balked were quickly ordered out of power.

Shit like following illegal orders gets easier when our society and our media accept it as business as usual. They accept it when they see torture justified and normalized on TV shows like 24 and Agents of SHIELD where it's something "heroes" do.

As I said earlier on this thread: you're taught in basic training that you're supposed to refuse illegal orders. For me (back in the long, long ago of 1994), it was the single most serious, no-shit-really instructional hour of boot camp. Firearms safety was lighthearted by comparison. Refusing an illegal order may be the scariest thing you can do in the military, but you signed up to do scary shit.

All those guys who tortured prisoners? They should've been tried and convicted and jailed. Same as the officers who passed those orders down. And we should never, ever talk like that's just business as usual, because it never should have been. We should never lose sight of that. As corb says, there are absolutely soldiers who say no and who intervene. And with the lines between right and wrong clearer here than they were during the Bush years, you'd see more of that, not less.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:38 AM on March 4, 2016 [11 favorites]

Wouldn't deporting undocumented immigrants fall under DHS anyway, specifically ICE?
posted by FJT at 9:46 AM on March 4, 2016

Probably, but we're talking about a Trump presidency where he chooses to go Full Mussolini, so who knows who would be rounding up who?
posted by tobascodagama at 10:00 AM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

I mean, the scenario where a demagogue like Trump uses militarised law enforcement -- who, as we should all know by now, do not have any particular compunctions about turning their weapons on US citizens and also have a very strong culture of falling in line behind the chain of command regardless of the legal or moral correctness of the actions that chain of command asks them to perform -- as his own private brownshirt army is terrifying and likely in equal measures.
posted by tobascodagama at 10:04 AM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

All those guys who tortured prisoners? They should've been tried and convicted and jailed. Same as the officers who passed those orders down. And we should never, ever talk like that's just business as usual, because it never should have been.

Sure, and Bush et al should have been prosecuted for it all in January 2009. And the drone operators who fire on weddings at Obama's order should refuse to do so, or be prosecuted. We all know that didn't, and isn't happening. Fact is it is business as usual, and we don't live in the idealized world where every soldier is a human rights lawyer. Actually pretty much the opposite, the US military regularly commits war crimes without thinking, much less refusing, and would continue to do so under Trump, or for that matter, Clinton.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:07 AM on March 4, 2016 [4 favorites]

I think you underestimate the military if you think so many of them would be ready to round up American citizens. I'm not saying my brothers and sisters in arms are always the best about foreign wars, but I guarantee you the overwhelming majority knows camps in the US are wrong.

But that wasn't the issue, it was creating more Abu Ghraibs and Guantanomos and treating people who are "suspicious" with extreme measures. And that's not at all difficult to see. Worse, we don't even have to look to Trump to worry about it. A good example is the rapid increase of incidents where heavily-armed wingnuts go around depriving Muslim Americans of their 1st Amendment rights, harassing them, and releasing their personal information. The supposedly moderate and decent conservatives' position on Muslims is to say "[i]t’s about closing down any place — whether it’s a cafe, a diner, an internet site — any place where radicals are being inspired" and then completely fails to specify what constitutes either a radical or how they're being inspired. It's not hard to see a military going along with that, or for that matter for any of the current GOP nominees to just kind of let the harassment and intimidation from private citizens (including many ex-military) continue. And remember the Planned Parenthood shooter basically quoting Carly Fiorina? Did the supposedly moderate and decent conservatives come out and tell us that maybe their horribly anti-woman rhetoric on abortion (again, Ya Boy Marco being one of the furthest right) and constant lying about PP was going too far? Nope, they just doubled down on it. Same with SSM, where everybody except for Trump seems willing to just roll back several decades' worth of laws and use state power to enforce their presumed mandate.

So do I think the military is going to start rounding people up in camps? Probably not. Do I think they'd be just fine with any of a number of policies and laws that strip basic civil rights from large numbers of citizens? Abso-fucking-lutely. And it won't matter if it comes from a President Trump, President Rubio, President Cruz, or even President Kasich.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:10 AM on March 4, 2016 [7 favorites]

Politics is a popularity contest. Appearance matters in popularity contests, it's fine to point out when someone is failing in that area. Just try to avoid mockery for the sake of mockery. Other people are impacted by superficial things, but you don't have to be.

That said, it's undeniable that Ted Cruz has an off putting face. He looks like someone I would cast to play a preacher who is actually the anti-christ.
posted by Drinky Die at 10:11 AM on March 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

Hey corb, I just wanted to thank you for hanging around with us in political threads and not being afraid to speak your mind and disagree with the entire crowd. Even when I vehemently disagree with you, I am always super glad you're around.

When things become too one-sided on either political side, there's too much temptation, even amongst honest and moral people, to exaggerate and engage in half-true hyperbole because things just seem so bad, especially in the current political climate. You act as a really vital counterpoint to all of that, and a constant reminder that there are plenty of conservatives of principle who hate and fear this crazy train as much as the rest of us.
posted by zug at 10:21 AM on March 4, 2016 [22 favorites]

Hey corb, I just wanted to thank you for hanging around with us in political threads and not being afraid to speak your mind and disagree with the entire crowd.

Agreed.

I am not infrequently appalled at some of the predominant opinions shown on Metafilter (usually about the military, sometimes about music). Sometimes I can stick it out. Sometimes I really can't. But at least here it almost never gets to insult-based raging at other people in the comment threads.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:26 AM on March 4, 2016 [5 favorites]

Even when I vehemently disagree with you, I am always super glad you're around.

I was just thinking about that too, over this discussion of the military. There's a temptation to just write off the other side. Even if you don't demonize them, it's easy to assume there's just no reaching them, no common ground - I am often tempted to think that way. I go a few places to remind myself that is a poor worldview. You help here, corb.
posted by mordax at 10:39 AM on March 4, 2016 [4 favorites]

That said, it's undeniable that Ted Cruz has an off putting face

I liked that neurologist piece that's been linked a few times because it wasn't just about "ha ha he looks bad" - the scientist went into more detail about how his mouth turns down at the corners when he smiles which gives him this really insincere uncanny-valley effect. It was more like a body language analysis than an appearance-based takedown. But point taken about being crappy to people because of their appearance, definitely.
posted by dialetheia at 10:40 AM on March 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

I dunno man, he looks like a skinwalker that stole a skin too big for him. Everything on his face is just slightly off. It's disconcerting. Also, he is is the font of evil, probably drains children of their life essence, and is quite possibly that which is foretold in the Sumerian myths of how the world ends, but nice to say or not, the man is physically repellent.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:05 AM on March 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

Didn't we just agree to get off this topic? >.>
posted by tobascodagama at 11:16 AM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

My favorite insult so far is "Ted cruz looks like someone squeezed the pink meat slime through a play-doh mold shaped like sly stallone.
posted by My Dad at 11:20 AM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

Like, we seriously just said we were going to stop talking about this.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:22 AM on March 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

I know, but it's like a yawn, ya know? It's contagious. You just can't help but be all "I know, right?" when someone reminds you of the visceral shudder that happens when you gaze upon The Evil One who scares puppies and makes kittens cry. It just proves your humanity that this man properly heebies your jeebies.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:34 AM on March 4, 2016

Okay, no more Cruz face. Ahem: Have you seen how good Trump is getting at the Il Duce jaw-thrust-out pout face?
posted by Trochanter at 11:35 AM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ahem: Have you seen how good Trump is getting at the Il Duce jaw-thrust-out pout face?


Yup
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:47 AM on March 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

Is this now the general election thread or just the Republican debate/what is this world coming to thread?
posted by localhuman at 11:49 AM on March 4, 2016

Yup

shop. pixels. etc...
posted by Trochanter at 11:50 AM on March 4, 2016

Is this now the general election thread or just the Republican debate/what is this world coming to thread?

Good question. The Super Tuesday thread seems to be serving as the generic thread for discussions about the election. This one was originally not the debate thread but was declared as the debate thread at some point -- so who knows what it is now?
posted by tobascodagama at 11:54 AM on March 4, 2016

Yup

From the link: Mussolini invaded Slovenia, while Trump only invaded a single Slovenian.

O_O
posted by Justinian at 11:58 AM on March 4, 2016

Ugh. I hate what I'm about to write.

I am in no way defending Trump - he's every awful thing that he's done and said. He's a xenophobic liar and his participation in this election has already done damage to the country. But...

Holy shit, what a complete hatchet job of s debate. FOX went in planning on kneecapping him. They'd prepared footage and slides to undermine him but not the other candidates. I hope they did add much damage to themselves (or more) than they did to him. They called Trump out on things that they've let every other republican candidate slide on for their whole history. This was the sort of screw-job you'd expect from the WWE and here's a network pulling it. It fed into Trump's narrative. It was unscrupulous on every level even by FOX standards.

Fuck Trump, but Fuck FOX more.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:00 PM on March 4, 2016 [12 favorites]

Optimized for endless looping horror.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:03 PM on March 4, 2016

They'd prepared footage and slides to undermine him but not the other candidates.

No... they did exactly the same thing for the other candidates as well. At the last Fox debate which Trump skipped. This was simply treating them all equally.
posted by Justinian at 12:06 PM on March 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

> It was unscrupulous on every level even by FOX standards.

I agree that they went in looking to break Trump, and no-one else (I said as much earlier in this post), but isn't this sort of obviously biased attack pretty much standard for them?

And heck, it's great if we can point to this as a counter-argument anytime someone claims that FOX is an impartial news source, but I think anyone who follows them must have given up on impartiality a long time ago.
posted by benito.strauss at 12:18 PM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

Holy shit, what a complete hatchet job of s debate.

What astounded me was that Trump called the debate "fair" in the commentary immediately afterwards. It was a perfect opportunity for him to denounce Fox as biased, unfair, etc. etc. etc. And it's not like he's shied away from attacking them in the past. Maybe this is reading a bit too much into the tea leaves, but perhaps this is part of a rapprochement with "the establishment." Or maybe Trump just doesn't like playing martyr.
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 12:25 PM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

Guys, remember Jim Webb? He went on MSNBC today and said he hasn't ruled out voting for Donald Trump. I really think he's unhinged. Remember his I KILLLLLED A MAAAAAN thing at the first debate?
posted by Justinian at 12:25 PM on March 4, 2016

Jim Webb: because bitterness is the truest form of patriotism, I guess.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:38 PM on March 4, 2016

I think Webb is representative of a lot of conservative Democrats who will bolt to vote for Trump.
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 12:39 PM on March 4, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'm getting the sense that this election is gonna be like the Seahawks/Broncos superbowl....the team I dislike is gonna get slapped up and down the field in a satisfying manner, although the victor leaves a lot to be desired
posted by Existential Dread at 12:40 PM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

Optimized for endless looping horror.

GAHHH I SAW THIS ON A TINY YOUTUBE SCREEN LAST NIGHT IT'S MUCH WORSE THAN I INITIALLY THOUGHT

Has he addressed this yet???
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:42 PM on March 4, 2016

I'm getting the sense that this election is gonna be like the Seahawks/Broncos superbowl....

Given that "suffers from artificially inflated hatred" is something that Hillary, Bernie and the Seahawks all have in common, I'll gladly take that analogy.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:44 PM on March 4, 2016

Optimized for endless looping horror.

I see a resemblance.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:45 PM on March 4, 2016

No... they did exactly the same thing for the other candidates as well. At the last Fox debate which Trump skipped. This was simply treating them all equally.

I disagree - for it to be fair in context, they should have treated the other candidates the same way at this event, too. It came across as "dog pile on Trump." And it seems pretty clear that that was the intent.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:00 PM on March 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

> I'm getting the sense that this election is gonna be like the Seahawks/Broncos superbowl....

for reals though that last play was some COINTELPRO bullshit.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:01 PM on March 4, 2016

I think Webb is representative of a lot of conservative Democrats who will bolt to vote for Trump.

Which is weird considering all the Democrats saying that Hillary is more of a moderate Republican.
posted by OmieWise at 1:04 PM on March 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

Which is weird considering all the Democrats saying that Hillary is more of a moderate Republican.

There's socially conservative and there's economically conservative. Clinton is economically conservative and socially liberal. Trump is socially conservative and more economically liberal than most Republicans of recent years - he's going to end up flanking her from the left on trade issues, for example.
posted by dialetheia at 1:10 PM on March 4, 2016 [4 favorites]

It's this kind of thing that has people talking about realigning coalitions. The seams are showing. A corporatist warhawk who isn't particularly motivated by social issues could belong to the centrist wing of either party at this point. Not surprising that some of them who've traditionally been Republicans are gravitating to Clinton and some who've traditionally been Democrats are gravitating to Trump as they discover that one candidate holds some position that they strongly agree/disagree with that the other holds the opposite position on. Or some of them are discovering now that they care more about certain social issues than they did previously, etc.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:07 PM on March 4, 2016 [7 favorites]

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that we're going to have a Trump presidency, assuming a Trump vs Hillary matchup (which does look increasingly likely at this point, absent the email scandal derailing Clinton, some unexpected Bernie surge, or some Republican brokered convention shenanigans).

Trump has created an aura such that people support him regardless of whatever specific positions he takes. Indeed, as his Republican opponents delight in pointing out, he doesn't seem particularly committed to any position and can (and has) change his mind at the drop of a hat. His only political philosophy, if he has any, seems to be deal-making. His donation history seems to suggest he can get along with almost anyone in mainstream US political culture. The panoply of positions that he has taken (the obverse of which is a lack of strong stance on any issue -- even his trademark Wall With Mexico seems to be negotiable, if this NYT off-the-record episode is what it is portrayed to be) enables basically everyone to find at least something they like in his "program." He has wide appeal; e.g. even a gay Muslim student whose main concern seems to be severing the US and Saudi Arabia's close relationship can support him. In this way, he is a human rorschach, able to assume any form his supporters want to see in him. This is redolent of the successful 2008 Obama campaign.

Trump claims he is a unifier. As much scoffing as this may produce in certain circles, I think he believes it and I think it is true. His wide appeal and political flexibility enable him to bring large coalitions together. The fact that he may need to do this by upsetting more ideological elements doesn't bother him, and doesn't bother his supporters. Some that have formerly opposed him have already come around to finding a modus vivendi with Trump, and I think this trend will continue.

As far as his contest with Hillary, as Trump said in the most recent debate, "I have not started on Hillary yet. Believe me, I will start soon. I haven't even started." His attacks on Hillary will be withering since, as we have seen, Trump is often unrestrained by presidential decorum. Trump is fast on his feet and pugilistic in debates in a way that Hillary is not. Plus, as others have mentioned, Trump has the opportunity to outflank Hillary on many issues from the left (and, to be sure, on other issues on the right). The relatively low Democratic primary turnout and general (and increasing) dislike of Hillary augur poorly for her. Her message is for continuity with a system that many Americans are turning against. He wants to "Make America Great Again." All other things being equal, the later, more inspiring, message wins out.

And, at the end of the day, who is going to vote for Hillary in the election? Dispirited Bernie supporters may not find their way to the polls in large numbers. Jim Webb types can be pulled out of the Democratic orbit by Trump's crossover appeal. Hillary can take solace in her strong support among blacks and women (especially older and richer members of both groups), but will that be enough to stop The Donald? I don't think so.

(Note: I obviously do not support Trump.)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 2:11 PM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm over Dispirited Liberal Pessimist Electoral Fantasies as a literary genre. Y'all giving way too much credit to Trump and not nearly enough to your fellow citizens IMO
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:18 PM on March 4, 2016 [21 favorites]

I can see Democratic voters, even dispirited Bernie supporters, being driven to the polls by the expected Supreme Court nominee shenanigans. If McConnell and his pals make a show of blocking Obama's nominees, as they've been indicating, the thought of Trump putting his clownshow on the Supreme Court should and will energize Democratic voters. I mean, unless you think Scalia was far too reasonable and conciliatory to his idealogical enemies.

Also, as Trump demonstrated last night, he's far from unbeatable. I'm confident that with the massive amounts of opposition material that Romney et al have provided against their own friggin front runner Hillary can make a good showing in November.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:24 PM on March 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

I think dialetheia mentioned it in another thread, and I tend to agree: If you're trying to get young and or dis-affected voters motivated to vote and your main line of persuasion involves the Supreme Court, well then we might have some problems.
posted by localhuman at 2:29 PM on March 4, 2016 [5 favorites]

And, at the end of the day, who is going to vote for Hillary in the election?

Most people, I think? Dispirited Sanders supporters are noisy and visible but the number who won't vote for Clinton is small. And the Webb thing is, I think, just sour grapes. Consider; Clinton isn't to the left of Obama and there wasn't a huge defection from Obama by Democrats. Why would they abandon Clinton in huge numbers?
posted by Justinian at 2:30 PM on March 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

In this way, he is a human rorschach, able to assume any form his supporters want to see in him. This is redolent of the successful 2008 Obama campaign.

Exactly, that's also his weakness. If the Republicans can make Obama a Kenyan-born Muslim Black Panther Extremist that secretly wants to kill old people and weaken his country enough for a takeover by foreign enemies, then Democrats can do that to Donald Trump. If he's an amorphous blob, we just find a shaped container we can simply deposit him into.

You need to do more than take wild attacks at him. You need to take each of his supposed strengths that he has with people and attach a negative to it. So that every time people talk about him, they'll form doubts in the back of their minds. And each of these smears form a greater narrative and the people will just fill in the blanks to form the rest. It's what Republicans are great at doing for years. It's filthy and dirty, and I'm not sure if Democrats or The Left are willing to play that way, and also do it at a faster more aggressive pace because Obama's smears took years to form and whoever wins the Democratic nomination only has months.

It'll be like the Manhattan Project of smears.
posted by FJT at 2:31 PM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

Basically I think Webb is throwing a ragequitting hissyfit because nobody liked him as a candidate. It's quite pitiable.
posted by Justinian at 2:31 PM on March 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

Does anybody really pay any attention to Jim Webb?
posted by hollygoheavy at 2:33 PM on March 4, 2016

No. Thus his tantrum.
posted by Justinian at 2:42 PM on March 4, 2016

Like, we seriously just said we were going to stop talking about this.

To hell with that. I'll make fun of the way Cruz looks if I want to. I don't actually want to, but.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:43 PM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

I agree that Democrats should be concerned. But I don't agree with the Trump-as-Teflon (or Norse god of chaos?) framing that is going on.

What Trump has demonstrated, so far, is that the Republican Party is a paper tiger, a once-grand edifice that, termite-ridden, is collapsing.

I do not think that the body politic as a whole is nearly as susceptible to this kind of an opportunistic infection. Yes, there will be a rally-'round-the-candidate effect, particularly if key Republican leadership figures are able to agree on a capitulate-and-cross-fingers approach rather than open hostility and a messy convention. And most Republican voters will end up holding their nose and voting for Trump.

But all that the Dems need to do is peel away a small amount of moderate voters and/or build second thoughts into disaffected voters who are considering turning out for Trump and/or motivate black, brown, liberal and female members of the Democratic coalition to turn out against Trump. (Ideally all of the above.) It's doable. When it comes to the White House, Democrats have a built-in electoral advantage that will be difficult to lose (opposite to their situation wrt the House). And if it comes to the point that white nationalists are turning out enough voters to make a difference, I think the Democrats will be able to raise a proportional number of anti-white-nationalist voters (black, brown, progressive) to counter.

Donald Trump is a blowhard with a knack for self-promotion, clever taunts and bluster. He stumbled into the Presidential race as a vanity candidate and luckily came up against the motley-est crew of second-rate governors, abrasive fundamentalists and empty suits that we've seen in a while.

That's why he's winning, not because he's somehow invulnerable to human failure.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:44 PM on March 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

The relatively low Democratic primary turnout and general (and increasing) dislike of Hillary augur poorly for her.

Just an FYI, primary turnout doesn't really have any meaning for the general election. The Democratic primary in 1980 turned out 1.5x that of the GOP, and Carter received one of the worst electoral drubbings in modern history. In 1988, the Dem turnout was even bigger, nearly twice as much as the GOP (and second only to Obama in 2008), and were still roundly defeated in the general. And for whatever dislike of Clinton there is, Trump is still seen as even less likable, to the tune of 10%-15% more.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:46 PM on March 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

Per Nate Silver, the party with higher primary turnout has gone 4–7 since 1972.

Hell, I nearly skipped the DFL caucus this year—mostly because it’s generally an organizational clustercuss, but also because I would have been perfectly happy with either candidate.
posted by nicepersonality at 2:56 PM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

I could see that, for sure. But it's not like Mefi commenters are the only people worried about it - this whole NYT piece is about specific aspects of turnout that are worrying to Democratic strategists. "Some Democrats now worry that Mrs. Clinton will have difficulty matching the surge in new black, Hispanic and young voters who came to the polls for President Obama in 2008 and 2012. “Barack Obama without that surge is John Kerry,” said Cornell Belcher, a Democratic pollster who worked on Mr. Obama’s re-election campaign, referring to the losing Democratic nominee in 2004. “Just turning out the traditional minority base is not a 51 percent pathway going into November.”"

And I'm not sure that the Clinton campaign agrees that it'll be a cakewalk against Trump, either - if people who are worried about Trump winning don't put enough faith in our fellow citizens, it appears that Bill Clinton doesn't, either. This other NYT piece indicates that they're particularly concerned about losing the white vote and/or facing increased white turnout in the Rust Belt: "Several Democrats argued that Mrs. Clinton, should she be her party’s nominee, would easily beat Mr. Trump. They were confident that his incendiary remarks about immigrants, women and Muslims would make him unacceptable to many Americans. They had faith that the growing electoral power of black, Hispanic and female voters would deliver a Clinton landslide if he were the Republican nominee. But others, including former President Bill Clinton, dismissed those conclusions as denial. They said that Mr. Trump clearly had a keen sense of the electorate’s mood and that only a concerted campaign portraying him as dangerous and bigoted would win what both Clintons believe will be a close November election. ...

Mrs. Clinton’s uneven performance with male voters so far, especially white men, could create an opening for Mr. Trump to attract Democrats and independents who are socially and culturally moderate and open to his call for a strong military, fearless foreign policy and businessman’s approach to the economy. Those voters could give him an edge in places like North Carolina, which Mr. Obama won in 2008. But Clinton advisers also worry about Ohio, Florida and Democratic-leaning states in presidential elections that Mr. Trump has vowed to contest, like Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin."
posted by dialetheia at 2:58 PM on March 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

Jesse Ventura has been invited to the Libertarian convention and is considering a run for their presidential nomination. We could end up with two of the top three parties having a WWE Hall of Famer as presidential candidate.
posted by Esteemed Offendi at 3:02 PM on March 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

Human acts are not alone written in the astral light ; their traces are left upon the face, they modify mien and carriage, they change the tone of the voice. Thus every man bears about him the history of his life, which is legible for the initiate.

TRANSCENDENTAL MAGIC
ITS DOCTRINE AND RITUAL
Eliphas Levi

Everyone should watch Michael Moore's Farenheit 911. The single most brilliant thing Moore did there was the relentless closeups of the Bush crew, showing the visible effect of their actions carved into their faces. It is a cruelty warped by dishonesty, and it is frightful to look at it.

Hopefully Ted Cruz doesn't ever get that far.
posted by bukvich at 3:03 PM on March 4, 2016

I agree to the extent that those areas and demographics (middle-aged, low-to-middle-income white across Appalachia and the lower Midwest) are where Clinton will need to worry (and incidentally, the stronger showing for Sanders there is absolutely an electoral argument for him). But I don't mean to rehash that.

Thinking about it from the point of view of the likelihood of maintaining a (winning) Obama coalition, the Dem chances look pretty good. Black turnout may go down somewhat. But I think there is also renewed political energy within the black community and I don't think the mobilization of '08 will go away altogether, particularly with Donald Trump in the opposite corner. But overall, it's hard to see why someone who voted for Obama over Romney in '12 will now vote for Trump over Clinton.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:08 PM on March 4, 2016

As much as I hate to bring things back to the original topic, the little girls saying "doesn't that mean you go to jail" in synchronicity with each other is priceless.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:20 PM on March 4, 2016 [5 favorites]

just really wonder how a 20 year old kid who doesn't have a deeply entrenched personality yet would be able to resist a direct order

Yeah, sometimes maybe it's 20 year old kids. But some of the most heinous crimes in the OIF/OEF theater and historically as well have been committed by seasoned officers and civilian personnel (CIA or contractor) with clearance from and knowledge of officers.

I'd be interested to see both polling data and more qualitative deep journalism on how the military rank and file view the prospect of a Trump presidency. Does he have any really prominent military endorsers?

And where is Colin Powell when we need him? Although come to think of it, he could do more damage by coming out against Trump once/if he's the nominee.

I also wonder if Dick Cheney, who never misses a chance to belittle Pres. Obama's military leadership and prowess, has any opinions he plans to share with the class. Or that clown he had run the front office. The neocons gain nothing if Trump wins, and indeed they stand to lose everything including free trade. It's the most appealing thing about Trump to me when he bashes Bush and the Iraq was and says 9/11 was Bush's fault. How can Former President Bush not respond to that himself, or Cheney at least? How can they see any advantage in not taking shots at Trump? Hell, Rumsfeld? Bolton? Anyone?

McCain could do it if he stood out in front for once in the last 12 years. But instead he hid behind Mitt's voluminous skirts and said "me too, squeak."

Why are these guys so scared that they can only walk up to the door of the plane but not actually jump out? Just like last night when they all agreed they'd support Trump if he was the nominee, what the hell?

They all look weak and make him look strong as a result.

One thing I love is that are leaving the Dem general candidate a huge wide opening for a perfectly timed "at long last sir, do you have no decency?" moment. That's the kind of shot I can't believe Ted Cruz or John Kasich hasn't even attempted. Marco would flub it.
posted by spitbull at 4:17 PM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'd kind of love to see how the Bushes would avenge themselves on Trump for humiliating Jeb so. Maybe W, now that he's an artist, could paint a revelatory and damning Guernica-esque portrait of Trump and the ruin he would sow, moving a Republican party that has lost its way to mistily remember the days when they had to jerk us off with some horseshit about "compassionate conservatism" to get elected, and got two whole terms out of the deal.
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:44 PM on March 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

But I don't agree with the Trump-as-Teflon (or Norse god of chaos?) framing that is going on.

Trump definitely isn't Teflon. It's just that his supporters are so excited to have somebody who's willing to validate the darkest parts of their id that they don't really care much about the man himself. So there's not much that could actually discredit him in the eyes of his supporters.
posted by tobascodagama at 5:35 PM on March 4, 2016 [4 favorites]

One thing I love is that are leaving the Dem general candidate a huge wide opening for a perfectly timed "at long last sir, do you have no decency?" moment.

Except he would reply "Fuck decency and fuck you" and go up three points.
posted by Etrigan at 5:52 PM on March 4, 2016 [8 favorites]

See, that's thing that is getting missed, everywhere I look.

The idiots and assholes who are unironic fans of Trump don't give a good goddamn about what anyone says about him, true or not. There isn't much you could tell them that would pry them away from their shitbag messiah. They won't just slink back under their rocks and resume masturbating into Slurpee cups over their collections of snuff videos if they can't vote for him, but they're not voting for Ted Freaking Cruz, let alone Hillary Clinton, either.

So if Trump is a candidate, or worse, the candidate, and if you don't want America to self-destruct, you need to make sure you get every single person in the country who is not an idiot or an asshole out and voting for The Not Trump. Because the number of people who support him is only going to grow, no matter what's thrown at him. It's not about changing opinions, it's about deploying overwhelming numbers.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:53 PM on March 4, 2016 [8 favorites]

If the Republicans can make Obama a Kenyan-born Muslim Black Panther Extremist that secretly wants to kill old people and weaken his country enough for a takeover by foreign enemies, then Democrats can do that to Donald Trump.

Yeah, I'm not convinced the Democrats can do that to anyone except their own, not since LBJ left, perhaps. I'm saying this in a "Prove me wrong" for too way. Prove me wrong, Hillary Nixon. Prove to me that you're worth this half-pejorative, half-hopeful rhyming nickname.
posted by Apocryphon at 6:07 PM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

Rod Dreher quoting a commentator in "GOP RIP":

Oh man, this is exactly what I’ve been trying to say about the Trump victory in Massachusetts. I couldn’t understand Trumpism until I saw the polls leading up to Super Tuesday in my home state.

Look, you’ve got Boston, the lifeblood of the state, an ostensible bulwark of progressive liberalism full of and controlled by wealthy, ostensible progressive liberals, and then you’ve got, well, everyone else, everywhere else. On one hand, Boston liberals give us Kennedy’s and Liz Warrens and scream about income inequality and social justice and write off anyone “on the wrong side of history” as human trash. On the other hand, for the last decade, they’ve arranged the state economy to usher in the reign of young, hyper-educated, high-earning city-tenant overlords at the expense of everyone else. Jobs are moving into a city that’s becoming harder and harder to get into, so suburb property values are either tanking if too far from the city, while the jobs leave, or close-proximity suburb rents are becoming impossible for the working-class to afford, so they are forced out into the cold more and more.

If I’m a white janitor in Somerville, with lingering, vague Catholic cultural influence who was raised in a racially complicated state, I’m pressed on all sides EXCEPT from people who share my anxieties and cultural identifiers. Those compatriots are the only social reference I have left that makes me feel part of America. I have no economic future because both parties have let me down. Liberals think I’m scum and reneg on their liberal economic promises anyway, and the conservative donor class doesn’t think about me at all until they need their gutters cleaned. (If you’re a black guy in Dorchester, God help you, the rich kids are coming and they will gentrify your community into oblivion.) Then comes along this guy Trump who tells me EXACTLY what I want to hear and doesn’t make me feel ashamed of myself. CAN YOU GUESS WHAT I’M GOING TO DO NEXT?

--------

Sounds like two decades of triangulation and failed liberal promises is motivating Trump's base as much as failed promises from Republicans for cultural conservative policies (and immigration reform). And both parties' establishments having open contempt for them. Chickens coming home to roost for all elites.
posted by Apocryphon at 6:13 PM on March 4, 2016 [9 favorites]

We could end up with two of the top three parties having a WWE Hall of Famer as presidential candidate.

All three, actually.
posted by Apocryphon at 6:18 PM on March 4, 2016

Then comes along this guy Trump who tells me EXACTLY what I want to hear and doesn’t make me feel ashamed of myself. CAN YOU GUESS WHAT I’M GOING TO DO NEXT?

I don't buy this narrative. Smells awfully paternalistic to me. Trump's Greatest Hits are 'build a wall', 'ban Muslims', 'Winning!', 'Politicians bad, businessmen good', 'I am very rich and successful'. I don't hear him saying much, if anything, that might be 'EXACTLY what [a janitor] wants to hear'.

I hear a lot of what this notional janitor might want to hear from Bernie Sanders, but not from Donald Trump.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:23 PM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

Well, you can't have someone like Romney up there calling Trump a phony. It doesn't work if it's a member of what Trump is running against.

You need some "real" Americans, Joe-the-Plumber types to be saying he's a phony. Even better if these real Americans are ones that have actually gotten screwed by Trump and can explain how this Lyle Lanley rolled in on their lives, sweet talked them until the sale, and then promptly discarded them like a used candy wrapper.
posted by FJT at 6:26 PM on March 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

I just came back to this thread after reading a whole bunch of tweets about O'Reilly being super drunk in the post interviews. So, I went back to look at some clips because I didn't pick up on that earlier. He really does seem drunk in some of them. I guess it's kind of hard to tell because his normal bloviating seems like crazy drunk uncle on Thanksgiving to me.
posted by Belle O'Cosity at 6:35 PM on March 4, 2016

He seemed off.
posted by zutalors! at 8:04 PM on March 4, 2016

As an addendum to the Boston thoughts, note that in Romney's erstwhile hometown of Belmont (a close, rich suburb) the top vote getter on the Republican side was Trump, who got almost as many votes as Kasich and Rubio put together. That's in a town where the median family income is $135,000 and the median home is $820,000. There's a lot more to Trump support than just poor whites, though the establishment folks -- Romney's friend and neighbors -- may dissemble a bit outside of the privacy of the ballot box. I think Trump's appeal is wider than many in his party give him credit for, and lots of people who by no rational measure can be said to be suffering still think of themselves as embattled (white) folks happy for someone to stand up for America. Trump's power is that he crystallizes an ideology that appeals at least as much to the rich as the poor, and even against an establishment figure like Clinton, I'm sure we'll see the usual correlation between wealth and Trump voting in the general when all those Republicans dutifully (or with secret glee) troop to the polls.
posted by chortly at 8:59 PM on March 4, 2016 [5 favorites]

O'Reilly literally just lost a drawn out and ugly custody fight for his kids last week. Which is good news for his kids and his ex but explains why he was off.
That fucker needs to be humiliated though.

I do not think Trump fans can be converted. But I think they can be stigmatized.
posted by spitbull at 4:29 AM on March 5, 2016 [2 favorites]

Ted Cruz for Trump's VP.

Scary.
posted by MonkeyToes at 5:04 AM on March 5, 2016

Death predicts whether people vote for Donald Trump (as in, areas with high death rates, not dead people, obvi)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 5:18 AM on March 5, 2016 [1 favorite]

Sounds like two decades of triangulation and failed liberal promises is motivating Trump's base as much as failed promises from Republicans for cultural conservative policies (and immigration reform). And both parties' establishments having open contempt for them. Chickens coming home to roost for all elites.

Let me stipulate that Democrats have broken many promises, and that triangulation has been a cornerstone of Democratic campaign strategy for decades.

With that said, I really do not see the straight line (or even a Sunday Morning Family Circus-style meandering dotted line) going from "failed liberal promises" and "triangulation" to the rise of Donald Trump among socially-conservative working-class white voters like the hypothetical "white janitor from Somerville", who has likely hated every policy that has come from any Democrat since Jimmy Carter, and thus would never have bought into any "liberal promises" in the first place.

The commenter Dreher quotes was probably among the first lining up to oppose policy that would have helped them and their family because it would have also helped poor people who don't look like them and their family. The implication of his/her comment seems to be that liberals saying mean things about white, working class, socially conservative voters has just forced those voters to run into the welcoming arms of the fascist bigot. What else could the Democratic party have done to make this hypothetical voter happy?
posted by tonycpsu at 9:25 AM on March 5, 2016 [3 favorites]

Not crafting NAFTA might have been a start.

"Forgetting the Poor, We Got Trump" by Chase Padusniak, Patheos

[...]

Growing up, and to this day, I have been surrounded by would-be Trump supporters. My mother has passed, but her political views might be helpful here. She was pro-choice, pro-euthanasia, pro-physician assisted suicide, pro-glamor culture, not religious, and a lover of Reagan. She inveighed against the entitlement culture of the welfare state, but thought gay people ought to be able to marry. She had friends of all races (as our area is quite an amalgam of ethnic groups), but had little issue using racial slurs; for her, the words themselves held no intrinsically negative quality. She was, from the perspective of mainstream political culture, a bundle of contradictions, an anomaly. But she was not; her opinions are more-or-less shared by an entire class.

This is what, especially on the East Coast, a “conservative” often looks like: irreligious, but enamored of the culture religion creates (read: nostalgic), not particularly invested in the idea of a “free market” and horrified by the loss of jobs in America, but also an enemy of the welfare state, capable of moving among different ethnic groups with no problem, but xenophobic when it comes to the actual question of immigration. These are not evangelicals; they are not the moneyed class whence Chris Christie lurched; they are a totally forgotten and neglected people, a group neglected by both parties, a class whose interests reside neither with Democrats nor Republicans.

I can speak only of their existence in New Jersey, but I do not find it hard to imagine that, in varying ways, such people exist throughout the US, and especially in what we think of as “blue states.”

And so, it is the system that has created this problem. It is NAFTA. It is total neglect of our social and religious institutions. It is the establishment’s pandering to other groups, leaving these people feeling ignored and embittered. What do you do with someone who hates Al Sharpton, thinks capital punishment and the War on Drugs are entirely justifiable, but also thinks the welfare state is an invitation to entitlement, people who hate unions, but miss the jobs unions guaranteed them, people betrayed by Reagan, Clinton, the Bushes, and Obama?

Our politically-dominant class has done nothing with them, and so they have turned to Trump, whose rhetoric and pedigree (as an East Coaster) appeal to them. They turn to Trump because he is the only one who has turned to them. They were not coached by the GOP, nor are they stupid and in need of our derision. They are human beings: flawed, confused, and hurt, men and women with no viable institutions for their cultural impulses, nor political alternatives for their ever-growing dissatisfaction.
posted by Apocryphon at 1:34 PM on March 5, 2016 [6 favorites]

You know, a few years ago, I made a half-serious comparison between the collapse of Imperial China and the potential collapse of the US. Just like the United States, Imperial China suffered from bad trade deals, lost foreign wars, was being carved up by foreigners, and fighting a losing drug war. I was onto something, but back then I said the Tea Party was the equivalent of the Boxer's. I would definitely put Trump's movement in that role now.

History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
posted by FJT at 3:21 PM on March 5, 2016 [2 favorites]

The Tea Party was the Taiping Rebellion. Trump's movement are the Boxers.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:48 PM on March 5, 2016 [2 favorites]

So the GOP can unapologetically stoke the fires of racial animus and xenophobia for decades, engage in the systematic destruction of organized labor, and "starve the beast" on the backs of our poorest citizens, but because Bill Clinton supported NAFTA 20 years ago, #BothSidesDoIt. Or, more charitably, it's "the system." Yeah, OK.

A vast majority of the people being talked about in that piece were never gettable Democratic votes. Those positions are essentially bog-standard Republicanism with a touch of heterodoxy on issues that the party doesn't really care much about except to draw in evangelical voters. Had the Democrats tried to reach those voters, it would have alienated many more of its constituents.
posted by tonycpsu at 5:15 PM on March 5, 2016 [3 favorites]

So the GOP can unapologetically stoke the fires of racial animus and xenophobia for decades, engage in the systematic destruction of organized labor, and "starve the beast" on the backs of our poorest citizens, but because Bill Clinton supported NAFTA 20 years ago, #BothSidesDoIt. Or, more charitably, it's "the system."

Related, excellent, and damning: American crossroads: Reagan, Trump and the devil down south (Guardian).
posted by MonkeyToes at 5:33 PM on March 5, 2016 [8 favorites]

MonkeyToes that Guatdian piece deserves an FPP. Everyone who knows a young person well should urge that person to read it. Superb and beautifully written and dead on recovery of a vital perspective on American history. Thanks!
posted by spitbull at 6:03 AM on March 6, 2016 [5 favorites]

I agree that the guardian link should be fpp. It does a succinct job of coalescing complex timelines.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:57 PM on March 6, 2016

it was posted + deleted.
posted by andrewcooke at 7:03 PM on March 6, 2016 [3 favorites]

Don't Let Trump's Antics Distract You From Cruz's Unwavering Extremist Agenda: One is theater. The other is terrifyingly real.​
posted by homunculus at 10:57 PM on March 6, 2016

it was posted + deleted.

Yeah, I thought those articles collected together were worth a separate FPP (the pieces about George Wallace and Lee Atwater complement the Guardian article quite well, imo) but the mods disagreed.
posted by homunculus at 11:05 PM on March 6, 2016

Reposted with emphasis on the historical content.
posted by homunculus at 10:58 PM on March 7, 2016 [6 favorites]

How to Watch Tonight's Republican Debate Online

(Assuming we're doing it here, as we did with the last one.)
posted by homunculus at 2:54 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Trump Post-CNN-Debate News Distortion Field: After its debates, the cable network has allowed Donald Trump to host his own private spin room.
posted by homunculus at 3:12 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

[klaxon] *** DEBATE THREAD DECLARED *** [/klaxon]
posted by Chrysostom at 3:55 PM on March 10, 2016 [5 favorites]

Criminy, another one?

I'd say this is the worst reality TV show of all time, but I suppose "Britney and Kevin: Chaotic" is technically also a thing that exists. Call it a tie?
posted by kyrademon at 5:01 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

*not gonna watch, not gonna watch*

*who am I kidding, tonight might be the night they pull out their dicks or try to kill each other*

*or both*
posted by nubs at 5:01 PM on March 10, 2016 [8 favorites]

*sword fights*
posted by nicepersonality at 5:04 PM on March 10, 2016

I got really drunk and sad for the last one. I think watching these debates is a form of self-hatred. (Tuning into CNN now)
posted by dis_integration at 5:06 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Carly fiorina says trump can't win by talking about body parts.
posted by zutalors! at 5:23 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

Remember everyone, this is the bitching about Republicans thread. The Democratic circular firing squad is in the other one.
posted by charred husk at 5:25 PM on March 10, 2016 [9 favorites]

I wonder if those 12 Florida mayors will get any answers to their climate change questions.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:25 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

The commentators seem to think we are going to see a gentler more presidential trump tonight. They have been saying this all day. methinks not.
posted by futz at 5:26 PM on March 10, 2016

> "The Democratic circular firing squad is in the other one."

All the other ones, really.
posted by kyrademon at 5:28 PM on March 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

When does it start? All CNN.com is giving me is clips of talking heads with "expert" "analysis"
posted by nubs at 5:30 PM on March 10, 2016

Now
posted by futz at 5:32 PM on March 10, 2016

When does it start? All CNN.com is giving me is clips of talking heads with "expert" "analysis"

I seem to be getting a preview of Big Important Summer Movie 5, starring a bunch of creepy...oh wait, that's just a preview of the debate.
posted by sallybrown at 5:32 PM on March 10, 2016

Oh shit. 9 o'clock.
posted by futz at 5:33 PM on March 10, 2016

The actual debate doesn't start until 9pm eastern I guess, from 830-9 it's just RNC stuff. This is the link I'm using.
posted by melissasaurus at 5:33 PM on March 10, 2016

Oh shit. 9 o'clock.

Yeah, CNN tricked me with that absurd pay-per-view boxing-style package of clips, then just cut to His Whiteness, John King, giving us some conventional wisdom.
posted by dis_integration at 5:34 PM on March 10, 2016

"Tonight's debate, live from the University of Miami, will start at 8:30 p.m. ET and be moderated by professional handsome person Jake Tapper, real-life Crypt Keeper puppet Hugh Hewitt, and Stephen Dinan of the not-at-all-questionable-choice Washington Times. In addition to the OTA broadcast, CNN will livestream the event on CNN.com and via various CNN apps. And, good news for cord cutters: a network representative has confirmed that the stream will be available without any cable authentication. Good on you, CNN."
posted by homunculus at 5:35 PM on March 10, 2016

Also, CNN Go currently has the "10 min preview" thing if you don't have cable. For past debates, if you reloaded after the debate officially started, it was available without preview or login requirement. But, that might not work for everyone or for every debate. Reddit usually has some other streams posted.
posted by melissasaurus at 5:35 PM on March 10, 2016

And CNN has decided that us dirty foreigners can't access the livestream to rubberneck. I guess I should be grateful.
posted by nubs at 5:35 PM on March 10, 2016

it's kind of like when they open the Ark at the end of Raiders. you really don't want to watch.
posted by indubitable at 5:43 PM on March 10, 2016

Yes, I think they have saved me. I'm going to have a nice dinner, read a book.
posted by nubs at 5:45 PM on March 10, 2016

Okay, now it's starting. I got duped.
posted by homunculus at 6:01 PM on March 10, 2016

i pregamed lets do this

first question to senator cruz
q whats up with that new pottermore shit yo
a yeah voldermort lives matter too
q wait what
a -spews white bees out of his mouth-
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:01 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

Somehow I don't think Trump's supporters are "voting out of love"
posted by homunculus at 6:03 PM on March 10, 2016

second question governor kasich

q do you have any buzzwords to spew
a you bet -more bees-
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:04 PM on March 10, 2016

No dick talk. Boring. zzzzzzzzzz
posted by Drinky Die at 6:05 PM on March 10, 2016

Trump: I fuck over the American worker because I'm allowed to. Vote for me and I'll stop doing it.
posted by charred husk at 6:05 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Did anyone else know that trump is a businessman? Annnd another non answer from him.
posted by futz at 6:05 PM on March 10, 2016

third question to senator rubio

q can you wildly underestimate the number of people living on this earth
a you know i can also -bees-
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:06 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

No he just doesn't care about the ones we can't sell stuff to.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:07 PM on March 10, 2016

Are you down with TPP?
posted by futz at 6:07 PM on March 10, 2016

Pretty low energy so far.
posted by peeedro at 6:08 PM on March 10, 2016

Yeah you know me.
posted by dis_integration at 6:08 PM on March 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

rubio is down with tpp
his pants are on backwards
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:08 PM on March 10, 2016

ooohhh ssshhhhhhiiiiiiitttttttttt
sorry sorry
white dude party foul
i confused kriss kross and naughty by nature
i will drink the chardonnay of shame
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:10 PM on March 10, 2016 [7 favorites]

robocop is drinking
posted by peeedro at 6:11 PM on March 10, 2016 [5 favorites]

his pants are on backwards

are you the podium?!
posted by futz at 6:11 PM on March 10, 2016

its a living
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:11 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

> > "The Democratic circular firing squad is in the other one."

> All the other ones, really.

There's also a thread about spiders.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:12 PM on March 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

they are talking about actual things

no one's even been that scary
posted by zutalors! at 6:13 PM on March 10, 2016

Trump; I shouldn't use H1B, but I have to, because it's cheaper

CROWD CHEERS
posted by zutalors! at 6:14 PM on March 10, 2016

no one's even been that scary

It's only 9:15. Plenty of time.

But yeah, compared to the last R debate, this one has actual adults standing there.
posted by chaoticgood at 6:16 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

ben carsons ghost tries to stumble on to stage
gets confused
nothing happens
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:17 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

I called Cruz a "disaster" while talking to my therapist today and he was like "You're Doing It!"

Trump in the brain
posted by zutalors! at 6:18 PM on March 10, 2016 [5 favorites]

Behold the power of buzzwords.
posted by homunculus at 6:18 PM on March 10, 2016

Specific objections to common core...

Eek! Trump said Ben Carson will be very involved in trump's education plans. Still eeking over here!
posted by futz at 6:20 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

Now Kasich is saying disaster!
posted by zutalors! at 6:20 PM on March 10, 2016

no one's even been that scary

Even without boogers, Cruz is always scary.
posted by homunculus at 6:22 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Eek! Trump said Ben Carson will be very involved in trump's education plans. Still eeking over here!

They both have the most wonderful hands. Nothing can stop those hands once they start working together.

(Also, Rubio is a momma's boy)
posted by dis_integration at 6:22 PM on March 10, 2016

Trump said Ben Carson will be very involved in trump's education plans

Let's learn about the pyramids!
posted by thefoxgod at 6:22 PM on March 10, 2016

no rubio do not bring your mother
you are not matt damon at good will hunting oscars
you are a grown man
a man with needs
thirsts
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:22 PM on March 10, 2016 [5 favorites]

Jesus people answer the damn questions.
posted by futz at 6:23 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

It's so hard to keep straight where the debate threads are. We need like a flashing link at the top of metafilter when one is happening.
posted by DynamiteToast at 6:24 PM on March 10, 2016 [7 favorites]

It's weird that Rubio forgot to mention the military in that list of government expenses.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:24 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Yup. I already posted in the wrong thread. Hangs head in shame.
posted by futz at 6:26 PM on March 10, 2016

#hashtagtotallyrampant
posted by dersins at 6:26 PM on March 10, 2016

Why aren't debates in Fanfare, anyway?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:26 PM on March 10, 2016 [12 favorites]

I think it should be TwoMinutesHate.MetaFilter.com
posted by dis_integration at 6:28 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

Rubio said disaster!

is this in the drinking game

I'm not drinking
posted by zutalors! at 6:29 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

I can hear Trump just thinking "little Marco little Marco little Marco"
posted by sallybrown at 6:30 PM on March 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

Trump is trying really hard to sound vaguely reasonable. It must be killing him. Any bets on how long he can restrain himself?
posted by futz at 6:30 PM on March 10, 2016

The 80's called... They said we could keep Cruz.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:30 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

hey kids like working
good
cuz president cruz is here to make sure
you are an intern forever
dunno who you will intern for as all those folks can retire
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:30 PM on March 10, 2016 [4 favorites]

Heh.Amen sallybrown.
posted by futz at 6:31 PM on March 10, 2016

The way Cruz said "I will find them" makes me wonder if he might really be the Zodiac killer after all.
posted by homunculus at 6:32 PM on March 10, 2016 [13 favorites]

Uh, "Who's willing to take on Washington?" Trump and Sanders, obv.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:33 PM on March 10, 2016

Little late, but here's a Youtube stream for my fellow dirty foreigners (with half-assed commentary).
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:33 PM on March 10, 2016

Yeah it really seemed like the next line was going to be "and I will kill them".
posted by thefoxgod at 6:33 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

Joe Arpaio endorsed Trump, not very surprising. They're even fellow Birthers.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:35 PM on March 10, 2016

Cruz: I want the government so small that I can drown each bureaucrat in the bathtub with my bare hands.
posted by gatorae at 6:35 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

soooooo many buzzwords.

Ha! Trump said he cannot believe how civil the debate has been.

Bzzzzzzzzzzt
posted by futz at 6:35 PM on March 10, 2016

KASICH MENTIONS UFOS
FOLLOW UP
FOLLOW UP
BEN CARSON
HE MENTIONED YOU
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:35 PM on March 10, 2016 [4 favorites]

I agree with Trump: I can't believe how civil it's been so far.
posted by homunculus at 6:35 PM on March 10, 2016

This debate is so lame. I was promised bloodsport, not lies about trade deals and incoherent plans to reform social security. RELEASE THE TRUMP.
posted by dis_integration at 6:37 PM on March 10, 2016

It's funny how things change when the bully is on Xanax or a leash.
posted by futz at 6:38 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

I can hear Trump just thinking "little Marco little Marco little Marco"

Someone with some talent should remake this Pixies song with the lyrics changed to "Little Marco."
posted by homunculus at 6:38 PM on March 10, 2016

Tax tax tax tax free tax
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:39 PM on March 10, 2016

The Smoot-Hawley tariff! I've got bingo!
posted by Maecenas at 6:40 PM on March 10, 2016 [4 favorites]

Donny uses the word behave a lot. Not just in this debate. Interesting.
posted by futz at 6:41 PM on March 10, 2016

I think Cruz is trying to provoke Trump.

We paid for blood!
posted by homunculus at 6:41 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

This CNN ad for "Race for the White House" makes it look like an episode of Drunk History without the booze. No fun!
posted by sallybrown at 6:43 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

who had the power to get these bags of assorted assholes to agree to be nice for this long
there had to be an asshole summit of some sort
i bet it looked like a box of dunkin donuts
the new flat ones that look weird
to old people like me
but their frosting doesnt rub off
and the sugar stays where it should be
no candidate asshole donut touched
they just sat there
uneaten
in the break room that is
cnn
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:43 PM on March 10, 2016 [9 favorites]

The host has pretty good comic timing.

"You mean all 1.6 billion of them?"
posted by sagc at 6:47 PM on March 10, 2016

The benefit of there not being any blood and feathers flying here (though the entertainment value is certainly diminished) is we get to see how unworkable even the 'reasonable' GOP candidate policy positions are, and how abundantly clear it is that Trump has not got a single clue.

Not that it means much, because apparently nothing matters. But still.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:47 PM on March 10, 2016

On whether Trump stands behind his comments that "Islam hates us"

Tapper: "Did you mean all 1.6 billion of them?"
Trump: "I mean a lot of them, I mean a lot of them."
*crowd laughs*

barf
posted by sallybrown at 6:47 PM on March 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

Go Rubio
posted by zutalors! at 6:48 PM on March 10, 2016

Rubio defends Islam against Trump by pointing out that his friend met a bunch of Muslims who want to convert to Christianity in Bangladesh... and ends by barely mentioning the Muslim Americans that defend the US.
posted by Theiform at 6:49 PM on March 10, 2016

Story of the Republican party right there. Rubio says, essentially, he wishes he could say the same thing but it would be bad politics.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:49 PM on March 10, 2016 [8 favorites]

Rubio defends Islam against Trump by pointing out that his friend met a bunch of Muslims who want to convert to Christianity in Bangladesh

I don't think that's exactly what he said
posted by zutalors! at 6:49 PM on March 10, 2016

Trump getting really close to Final Solution like comments, really.
posted by zutalors! at 6:50 PM on March 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

@PattonOswalt: This debate might've broken me. They're calm in their archaic beliefs, which is scarier then when they're yelling. #GOPDebate
posted by melissasaurus at 6:52 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Heartening that the loudest applause of the night was for Rubio's pushback on Trump's Islamophobia.
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 6:52 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump keeps digging on the Muslim issue. It is GROSS.


But it is red meat to his base.
posted by futz at 6:54 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

They cut off people's heads! They drown them in cages! They are such monsters! Let's expand the laws so we can behave exactly like they do!
posted by gatorae at 6:54 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

I went back to Rubio's comment. His example of "good Muslims" was those that want to convert. "two days ago I met this extraordinary couple who were on furlough because they are missionaries in Bangladesh. And they felt comfortable because they work alongside friendly Muslims... who look out for them... and in their mission field, there really are Muslims who are looking to convert to Christianity as well. And they tell me that today, they have a very hostile environment in which to operate because the news was coming out that American politicians are saying that America doesn't like Muslims. So this has a real impact. There is no doubt that radical Islam has an impact on the world."
posted by Theiform at 6:55 PM on March 10, 2016

Cruz is looking relatively...

Oh, no, there he goes.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:55 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

Yeah I really do think there is a difference to what Rubio and Kasich are saying on Muslims, even if it's not what the Democrats would say.
posted by zutalors! at 6:55 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

How many more carrier battle groups do we need to fight terrorism?
posted by Drinky Die at 6:55 PM on March 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

my god it's almost as if Cruz and Rubio actually have an ounce of understanding on this issue. only an ounce, but markedly different from Trump.
posted by sallybrown at 6:56 PM on March 10, 2016

governor kasich do you think islam hates us

no i do not because i made sure to fix islam in ohio

what the fuck is wrong with you

im gonna level with you guy who works three floors down from anderson cooper
this is a long con
my company kasich realty bought a lot of land in ohio
by pissing off enough people
and also destroying the environment
they will terrorate and global warm and
soon dayton will be beach front property
and i will be a real estate king
i call it the full lex luthor

follow up question governor kasich
do you know where the fuck dayton is
most of ohio would be underwater

we could only afford a few buildings in dayton
i mean
im kasich
im about the lesser evil
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:57 PM on March 10, 2016 [8 favorites]

Does anyone know how the audience was picked?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:57 PM on March 10, 2016

I am beginning to believe that Ben Carson worked some somnolent voodoo on these wingnuts.
posted by futz at 6:58 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Does anyone know how the audience was picked?

I recall that in one of the previous debates it was definitely the RNC that selected the audience. I don't know if that is the standard practice.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:59 PM on March 10, 2016

Trump loves his daydream of being the one to work an Israeli-Palestinian deal *so much*
posted by sallybrown at 7:01 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Yeah, what is going on with Trump? Was this part of a deal? Or did they just decide to try out New Trump! tonight?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:01 PM on March 10, 2016

I WOULD DO THE TOUGHEST NEGOTIATION YOU CAN FIND
posted by dersins at 7:01 PM on March 10, 2016

Whoah. Katich just goes Final Solution as an afterthought.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:02 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

this is just to say
i have not eaten
the donuts
that are in
the breakroom

the ones
you are probably
saving
for the debate

because they
looked super gross
so weird
like assholes
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:02 PM on March 10, 2016 [6 favorites]

I'm maybe even more horrified with Trump tonight. Do people just block out the Islamophobia?
posted by zutalors! at 7:02 PM on March 10, 2016

No, he's been weirdly reasonable on Israel/Palestine all along.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:03 PM on March 10, 2016

How many muslims would you kill? 20,000? 30,000?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:03 PM on March 10, 2016

Um, but he thinks most Muslims "hate us" and we have to do something "before it's too late."
posted by zutalors! at 7:04 PM on March 10, 2016

Kasich: Bring back shock and awe! Woot!
posted by homunculus at 7:04 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

I would believe you if you told me Trump is only running for President because he thinks if he can make an Israel-Palestine deal happen, it will cement his imagined legacy as the #1 best ever king of the art of the deal.
posted by sallybrown at 7:04 PM on March 10, 2016 [10 favorites]

each of the candidates was visited by the three ghosts of the republican party
lincoln einsenhower and reagan
and were scared into not talking about hand andor dick size tonight
except kasich
they forgot him again
spiro agnew showed up tho
they talked about ohio
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:04 PM on March 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

Ah yes, Shock and Awe. That certainly settled things last time we did that.
posted by thefoxgod at 7:04 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Yeah, what is going on with Trump? Was this part of a deal? Or did they just decide to try out New Trump! tonight?

I think they're previewing the new model which was designed to debate Hillary Clinton.
posted by homunculus at 7:06 PM on March 10, 2016 [6 favorites]

Oh I'm sure that's it exactly. (Trump's glorious peace deal, I mean.)
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:06 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

If you're a vet, don't got the FLA for fuck's sake.

Also maybe don't vote for Rubicon.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:06 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

So.... you're saying this awesome amazing bill didn't work after all?
posted by zug at 7:07 PM on March 10, 2016

I would believe you if you told me Trump is only running for President because he thinks if he can make an Israel-Palestine deal happen, it will cement his imagined legacy as the #1 best ever king of the art of the deal.

Okay now somebody photoshop a TRUMP sign on this. Trump for god 2020.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:07 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ooooh, Rubicon works on so many levels.
posted by futz at 7:09 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

Jeebus. The horrible truth about Burma was that it wasn't Cuba.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:09 PM on March 10, 2016

Ooooh, Rubicon works on so many levels.

Don't tell me I coined that. It seemed obvious.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:10 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Stealing Medicare and moving back to Cuba? What is up with that?
posted by futz at 7:11 PM on March 10, 2016

"I would have the embassy closed...um...on the weekends. But open on the weekdays."
posted by sallybrown at 7:12 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Stealing Medicare and moving back to Cuba? What is up with that?
Sounds like bullshit.
posted by yertledaturtle at 7:12 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Little Marco is absolutely slaying Trump tonight. Too bad it's too late.
posted by sallybrown at 7:13 PM on March 10, 2016

rubio kickin up the thirst with a giant cnn cup
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:13 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Low key Trump makes my blood boil more than irate Trump. Like listening to a known emotional abuser act like they're the calm one. Ugh.
posted by avalonian at 7:14 PM on March 10, 2016 [10 favorites]

And we could call it a consulate instead of an embassy. Yeah, that's the ticket.
posted by futz at 7:14 PM on March 10, 2016

Miami Medicare-fraud fugitive returns from Cuba — voluntarily

One guy did it. And came back on his own.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:14 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Marco Antonio Rubio, actually. I just connected the dots on that today....
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:14 PM on March 10, 2016

Donald Trump and the Geneva Convention.
posted by homunculus at 7:14 PM on March 10, 2016

We should base our entire foriegn policy regarding Cuba on that I think. It's the only sensible thing to do.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:15 PM on March 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

The polls after this will be interesting. It'd be fascinating if Rubicon catches a late lift.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:15 PM on March 10, 2016

New debate game: every time Trump says the word "deal", take a breath. You'll hyperventilate.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:15 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

Somebody should count how many times he says something is the "worst deal that he's ever heard of".
posted by futz at 7:16 PM on March 10, 2016

I hate how he says biyyons and miyyons of dollars
posted by zutalors! at 7:16 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

We will kill EVERYBODY
posted by thefoxgod at 7:18 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

CLIMATE CHANGE BITCHES!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:18 PM on March 10, 2016

Oh boy, here we go...
posted by zug at 7:19 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

FFS.
posted by homunculus at 7:19 PM on March 10, 2016

No, there are actual laws that can change the weather, Marco.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:20 PM on March 10, 2016 [4 favorites]

Hurf durf weather laws
posted by gatorae at 7:20 PM on March 10, 2016

Fuck Rubio on his climate change answer.
posted by yertledaturtle at 7:20 PM on March 10, 2016 [5 favorites]

Climate always changes.

Tide goes in, tide goes out.

This is disgraceful. Weeps.
posted by futz at 7:20 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

The WAR ON COAL.

Let's try some of that shock and awe on coal...
posted by thefoxgod at 7:20 PM on March 10, 2016

Wait, the Mayor of Miami endorsed Rubicon? Was he drugged?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:21 PM on March 10, 2016

War on coal? Oh, fuck off Rubio. I just threw my notebook at the TV, which is sign maybe I need to tap out.
posted by bluecore at 7:21 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

Clearly Donald can make a deal with Thor to change the weather
posted by sallybrown at 7:21 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Rammed down our throat! I've got Bingo!
posted by ctmf at 7:21 PM on March 10, 2016 [4 favorites]

"America's not a planet"

Shoot me now.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:22 PM on March 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

America's not a planet? Eh?
posted by zutalors! at 7:22 PM on March 10, 2016

Rubio reiterates his sand-in-the-sand position on climate change. He really missed an opportunity to differentiate himself from the R crowd at a critical time.
posted by chaoticgood at 7:22 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

Technically correct. The Best Kind of Correct!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:23 PM on March 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

Kasich believes in everything!
posted by thefoxgod at 7:23 PM on March 10, 2016

Kasich is the only republican that makes sense. It figures that he is last in the race.
posted by yertledaturtle at 7:24 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

APOLOGY TOUR
posted by chaoticgood at 7:24 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

well I mean they are accepting the consensus in the geographer community on the existence of other countries, so there's that at least.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:24 PM on March 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

the ghost of king cnut is like
these people need to pay more fucking attention
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:24 PM on March 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

Yes, Obama is the one who hurt America's standing overseas. Too bad we lost the global goodwill that Bush generated. Wait, what?
posted by thefoxgod at 7:24 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm sure that historians will one day look back and point to Obama sending back a bust of Churchhill as the moment everything went to shit.
posted by gatorae at 7:25 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ladies and gentlemen, fresh off their Apology Tour, give a big hand to Churchill Bust & the Obamanauts!
posted by Lyme Drop at 7:25 PM on March 10, 2016

Ayatollah CAMA KNEE
posted by zutalors! at 7:25 PM on March 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

APOLOGY TOUR

Mr. Worldwide!
posted by sallybrown at 7:26 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump out-thinks the mod.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:26 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Reagan freed the hostages mythology
posted by futz at 7:26 PM on March 10, 2016

What is this Apology Tour that the republicans keep referring to?
posted by zug at 7:27 PM on March 10, 2016

Kasich agrees with Obama? RELEASE THE HOUNDS!
posted by Lyme Drop at 7:27 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

These guys are scary.
posted by futz at 7:27 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

"While Trump only invaded one Slovenian."
posted by Oyéah at 7:28 PM on March 10, 2016

youd think that given the fact kasich has been in the far side position for all the debates
they would not let him flowbee his own hair
seriously
was he the st patrick of ohio
where hairdressers were snakes
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:29 PM on March 10, 2016 [10 favorites]

the climate is always changing. at night it's cold, in the day it's warm. you say global warming. i say: morning in america.
posted by dis_integration at 7:31 PM on March 10, 2016 [4 favorites]

(i'm loving Tapper's pattern mixing with the tie and the pocket square)
posted by sallybrown at 7:33 PM on March 10, 2016

"They don't like seeing" black people. Come the fuck on, Trump. He didn't punch him because he was so spun up over trade deals.
posted by gatorae at 7:34 PM on March 10, 2016 [5 favorites]

Crowd cheering Trump's violent statements from before...
posted by thefoxgod at 7:34 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

They don't like to see black people, in the same spaces as white people.
posted by chaoticgood at 7:34 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

"In some respects, violence at my rallies is a beautiful thing"
posted by triggerfinger at 7:34 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

Fuck you trump.
posted by futz at 7:34 PM on March 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

And the real victims here are the police, of course.
posted by thefoxgod at 7:34 PM on March 10, 2016 [4 favorites]

Hey Ted Cruz you work in Washington...
posted by thefoxgod at 7:35 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump: "I was like, hey, do me a favor, pledge your undying loyalty to me."
posted by dis_integration at 7:37 PM on March 10, 2016

The Today Show now has something in common with Pope Francis: Donald Trump says they're a disgrace.
posted by homunculus at 7:37 PM on March 10, 2016

Breitbart reporters prolly told him that it was a disgrace.
posted by futz at 7:38 PM on March 10, 2016

Kasich (I have the hardest time with his name for some reason) is like a Republican Dolphin who occasionally surfaces for fresh air but can hold his breath for weirdly long times.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:39 PM on March 10, 2016 [4 favorites]

Ok Rubio definitely just stole that idea from Mad Men
posted by sallybrown at 7:39 PM on March 10, 2016

"All I was saying about John Wayne Gacy was he wouldn't take 'no' for an answer. Very confident. But it wasn't a compliment."
posted by homunculus at 7:40 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

Oh gods, Reagan! I got BINGO, also alcohol poisoning...
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:41 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Instant fact-check from Trump embed.
posted by homunculus at 7:41 PM on March 10, 2016

Pardoning Nixon is putting America first???
posted by Lyme Drop at 7:41 PM on March 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

As a wee lad, I pardoned Richard Nixon.
posted by box at 7:41 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

None of these cowards is willing to clearly call Trump out for fomenting violence. This is what the once great Republican Party is reduced to.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:42 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

A majority is a 'random number.'
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:42 PM on March 10, 2016

He's also like an iceberg and hides most of his abhorrent views from the general public in venues like this. He almost seems reasonable.
posted by futz at 7:42 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

i live in salem and i have no idea who this hew hewitt is
is he like alton browns evil clone
aging before his time
or
the product of anderson coopers ill worded wish
or
ira glasss evil grampa
or
some random shitstain

i need to know
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:42 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

What the heck does pardoning Nixon have to do with a contested convention?
posted by zug at 7:42 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Fuck all.
posted by futz at 7:44 PM on March 10, 2016

I love that Kasich denied it was a mathematical impossibilty, then Trump and Cruz both said the other two can't win.
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:44 PM on March 10, 2016

It's all about ratings for Trump.
posted by Lyme Drop at 7:45 PM on March 10, 2016

that's so sweet that little marco's wife tells him a story before bed
posted by sallybrown at 7:45 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

And that one guy is the only Rubio voter left...
posted by thefoxgod at 7:45 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

Rubicon's wife tells him bedtime stories.
posted by futz at 7:45 PM on March 10, 2016

Heal, America!

*America faints*
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:45 PM on March 10, 2016

Ooh the facade is starting to fall and they're getting a little snippy. Come on carnage!
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:46 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Cruz is really good at pushing his foot down in Rubio's face as he climbs after Trump.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:46 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

So... if God always makes the right thing happen for America, that means Obama was the right thing. Glad Rubiobot was able to acknowledge that.
posted by zug at 7:47 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

(Okay, so to take off the mask a bit, Cruz is having a good night and that makes me about 20x more fearful for the future of the country. My ironic detachment leads to terror JUST LIKE THE PROPHECY FORETOLD.)
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:49 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'll fight you, Rubicon.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:50 PM on March 10, 2016

I think Trump might actually be suffering from the early stages of dementia.
posted by dersins at 7:50 PM on March 10, 2016

Trump does not have an expansive vocabulary.
posted by futz at 7:51 PM on March 10, 2016

He's always been this way. If that's dementia it's been developing since the 80's.
posted by zarq at 7:51 PM on March 10, 2016

(which is perfect for propaganda)
posted by futz at 7:52 PM on March 10, 2016

If that's dementia it's been developing since the 80's.

Yes?
posted by dersins at 7:53 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Donald is alluding to this Chris Matthew's book, which is a bit surprising.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:53 PM on March 10, 2016

Kasich: positive positive my kids positive fighting drugs
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:58 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

Kasich: I am handing the power back to the people... except women.
posted by futz at 7:59 PM on March 10, 2016 [4 favorites]

Rubicon: My dad was a bartender. Every generation does what needs doing. Pick it up, Millenials.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:59 PM on March 10, 2016

everyones closing sounds like they could add
...and the bombing begins in 20 minutes
and not miss an iambic beat
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:00 PM on March 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

Cruz: We're all sons of some schmuck that we're better than now. Suck it daddy.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:00 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Moderators Give Marco Rubio 90 Seconds To Deliver Closing Statement Of Campaign
posted by thefoxgod at 8:00 PM on March 10, 2016

Trump: Relax, white people, I got this.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:02 PM on March 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

Trump word salad
posted by futz at 8:02 PM on March 10, 2016

i admit some glee in that last scene of marco all alone as everyone else shakes hands
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:02 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

Post debate Trump: "I think it was a very elegant evening."

Yeah, this is General Election Trump.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:04 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump tells interviewer that it was an elegant evening.
posted by futz at 8:05 PM on March 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

You owe me a Coke, futz.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:06 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Does Trump not know what elegant means? Or were they wearing tuxedoes and sipping Chablis in between bites of caviar? I didn't watch. But at this point I'll believe anything.
posted by mmoncur at 8:09 PM on March 10, 2016

I'll give you all the cokes you want if you can eliminate Carly Fwhatever from my TV.
posted by futz at 8:10 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

Elegant = Nobody mentioned their dick
posted by benito.strauss at 8:10 PM on March 10, 2016 [18 favorites]

So I knew Ted Cruz was bananas with his pledge to eliminate 5 federal agencies, but uh, the banana-ness goes way further than I thought. Like this list of 25 programs targeted for "elimination" including the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (which not sure how the POTUS can actually do that, but OK).
posted by mostly vowels at 8:10 PM on March 10, 2016 [5 favorites]

From same link above, federal employees on the black list of agencies, better peer pressure your coworkers to not leave if Cruz starts picking up delegates...


For those agencies in which it is determined that a vacant position needs to be filled, I will authorize the hiring of a maximum ratio of one person for every three who leave.
posted by mostly vowels at 8:13 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

The evening was described as low energy by CNN.

That is a anathema to the Alpha trump supporters.
posted by futz at 8:14 PM on March 10, 2016

Trump just told America that you literally cannot hold him accountable to a single thing he’s promised.

I must have missed this. Does anyone know what Trump said?
posted by homunculus at 8:14 PM on March 10, 2016

Heyyy Cruz just said he's for the people who are getting hammered right now! Yeah bro!
posted by sallybrown at 8:15 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Brendan Buck ‏@BrendanBuck 9m9 minutes ago
Debate performances ranked:

1) Nothing matters.

Communications director for Paul Ryan.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:17 PM on March 10, 2016 [4 favorites]

CNN says Trump sounded Presidential.

He wants people to punch protesters in the face, and is basically advocating a final solution for Muslims.

Real Presidential.
posted by zutalors! at 8:18 PM on March 10, 2016 [4 favorites]

Throughout tonight, @realDonaldTrump was scoring in the 80s and 90s. My focus group says it was his best debate ever. #GOPDebate - Luntz
posted by Peccable at 8:19 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

He didn't talk about his dick though.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:19 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

CNN says Trump sounded Presidential.
Speculation - as the election progresses, Trump moderates and gets closer to being nominated. The corporate media will begin the whitewash.
posted by yertledaturtle at 8:25 PM on March 10, 2016 [6 favorites]

The only saving grace is that all the horrible stuff he has said is on video, and Clinton/Sanders can make plenty of ads with that material. It won't affect his core supporters, obviously, but it can help counter any "moderation" rebranding he tries.
posted by thefoxgod at 8:32 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Speculation - as the election progresses, Trump moderates and gets closer to being nominated. The corporate media will begin the whitewash.

Well, of course. There's never been the slightest doubt about that -- he's not a smart man, but he's canny, and he knows that throwing red meat to the maniacs during the nomination process and then pivoting moderate for the general was the best game plan. The question has always been when he'd pivot. He did it tonight, and although he talked utter shit -- he was less coherent or substantive than George W Bush, something I'd never have imagined possible -- he did it without grunting, waving his dick around and playing alpha male. Which apparently passes for 'presidential' now.

Things are rapidly transitioning from hilarious to downright terrifying.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:40 PM on March 10, 2016 [12 favorites]

Why aren't debates in Fanfare, anyway?

MeTa
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:41 PM on March 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

We need a movement now, before it's too late, to push all the major news anchors and reporters to answer whether they will treat Trump respectfully, like a regular candidate, if he is nominated. Many if not most of them are on the record saying at some point that he is beyond the pale. Before the whitewashing begins, we need to make it a bit harder for them, by getting them on the record saying they will resist it, or at least make it uncomfortable for them to both be saying he is beyond the pale and admit they they plan to ignore that in two months. If Trump is going to destroy the Republican party and possibly the country, the least we can do is make sure he takes as much of the television media down with him as possible.
posted by chortly at 9:06 PM on March 10, 2016 [10 favorites]

Yeah. 100% agreed chortly. We need to pressure the comedians too. They are still loving him for the easy material, but we need to ask them to dig deeper and make the focus of the humor about how horrible he is, not how ridiculous he is.
posted by Drinky Die at 9:09 PM on March 10, 2016 [4 favorites]

Everyone seems to treat him as if he's a tumor within the Republican party. But he's not -- he is the Republican party. A tiny bit more explicit, but basically little different than Cruz, Rubio, or any generic Tea Party member. Right now everything is being portrayed as "can the Republican party survive this incursion," with plenty of mockery and head-shaking. But if he wins, the Republican party will happily line up behind him, and everyone will switch to talking about how he had to say all these things to get nominated ("what skill, to have gotten nominated while being such an outsider") but of course he didn't believe much of it, and is really much more moderate than most Republicans. We have to block that Orwellian erasure as best we can while we can. Just as the other candidates revealed their true colors when asked at the end of the previous debate whether they would support Trump, we need to do the same for reporters, comedians, Republican elders, etc. We need some sort of short, generic anti-Trump pledge circulating out there right now that all the damn centrist head-shakers need to be confronted with immediately, before the center lurches rightward and takes them along with it.
posted by chortly at 9:36 PM on March 10, 2016 [8 favorites]

> Right now everything is being portrayed as "can the Republican party survive this incursion," with plenty of mockery and head-shaking. But if he wins, the Republican party will happily line up behind him, and everyone will switch to talking about how he had to say all these things to get nominated ("what skill, to have gotten nominated while being such an outsider") but of course he didn't believe much of it, and is really much more moderate than most Republicans.

the man thinks he has i brand of steaks. and he doesn't have a brand of steaks. there's a lot of things you can walk back, but you can't walk back imaginary steaks.

I mean this has the form of a joke, but it's not a joke. no one who thinks they sell steaks when they don't should become president.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:07 PM on March 10, 2016 [7 favorites]

Ben Shapiro ‏@benshapiro 2h2 hours ago
Debate grades:
Trump: A
Cruz: B
Rubio: B
Kasich: B
Life is a pile of steaming dog poop filled with vomit.
posted by Drinky Die at 10:11 PM on March 10, 2016

Delawarian shenanigans in the Drudge poll? What is this democracy coming to?
posted by Drinky Die at 10:21 PM on March 10, 2016

When Trump first appeared as a genuine presidential hopeful, oh, about six months ago? I was convinced that it was a plot to make all the other Republicans look reasonable. I guess that's me told.
posted by bardophile at 2:15 AM on March 11, 2016 [2 favorites]

Ben Carson has endorsed Trump and I am now convinced that Trump has henchmen waiting in the shadows to threaten/cajole/bribe former GOP candidates and other tea party dignitaries to endorse him.
posted by triggerfinger at 7:07 AM on March 11, 2016

Why jump to henchmen? Maybe the Trump just makes an awesome fruit salad.
posted by snofoam at 7:47 AM on March 11, 2016 [1 favorite]

It's true, he uses only the freshest melons, it's amazing, let me tell you.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:59 AM on March 11, 2016

And no apples. Apples don't belong in a classy fruit salad. It's pig food.
posted by ian1977 at 8:22 AM on March 11, 2016

What's his position on honeydew? Because fuck honeydew right in its fake-canteloupe face.
posted by dersins at 8:25 AM on March 11, 2016 [2 favorites]

Why do people keep asking me about honeydew? It happens. People ask, I don't understand it. But look, I love honeydew. I love it. You won't find a bigger fan of honeydew. Well maybe one or two, but I don't want to go into that. I won't go into it, but—here's the thing, we've got melons, you won't beLIEVE the melons we've got. I've grown some tremendous cantaloupe. CHINA wants to buy my cantaloupe, and can you blame them? The firmest, the juiciest, it's really not fair, they're so good.

And, okay, honeydew? It just doesn't cut it. It's a weak melon. It's a—people tell me, they say, honeydew's a joke. And they're not wrong! I feel sorry, I really do, I feel bad for honeydew. But you gotta compete, this is the greatest free market in the world and if you can't compete, you're a loser, you're out of the salad and I'm not gonna apologize for that. You're out of the salad. I love it, I love honeydew with all my heart, but it's a—"wah wah, it's not my fault that I'm flavorless, I really TRIED to be in the salad, wah wah wah". C'mon. Loser melon. It's a real jerk.
posted by cortex at 8:50 AM on March 11, 2016 [35 favorites]

Seems legit. You got my vote.
posted by dersins at 9:59 AM on March 11, 2016

He says what we're thinking!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:25 AM on March 11, 2016 [12 favorites]

I just went to the farmer's market and kicked a honeydew!
posted by languagehat at 10:33 AM on March 11, 2016 [3 favorites]

I Liked It Better When the Republican Candidates Were Acting Like Third Graders

"They were a lot less terrifying when they were acting like third-graders. In their grown-up clothes, they are unmistakable monsters."
posted by homunculus at 11:15 AM on March 11, 2016 [2 favorites]

Ben Carson has endorsed Trump

Waiting for the press conference Trump throws to display both of his shamed conquests on stage. I don't think Carson can pull off quite as good of a "please shoot me" look as Christie, though.
posted by ctmf at 6:18 PM on March 11, 2016

Marco Rubio Refuses To Name Any Of His Advisers On Climate Change
posted by homunculus at 6:49 PM on March 11, 2016

ctmf: Waiting for the press conference Trump throws to display both of his shamed conquests on stage.

Nah, if they're lucky they'll get to ride with the War Boys on the way to the Bullet Farm.
posted by bluecore at 9:24 PM on March 11, 2016 [6 favorites]

TRUSSTED
posted by Oyéah at 6:16 PM on March 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

Surprise! Ted Cruz's Foreign Policy Team Is F*cking Psycho. In which the Tailgunner has invented a new definition for "moderate."​
posted by homunculus at 8:10 PM on March 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Ted Cruz's Rhetoric Is Crazy, But It's Real and It's Dangerous: This guy is Joe McCarthy without the booze, and with a much better chance to be president.
posted by homunculus at 8:07 PM on March 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

Not that much better.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:02 PM on March 22, 2016

Oh, I've read that story.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:26 PM on March 22, 2016

"What beans does Donald Trump have on Ted Cruz' wife?"
posted by box at 7:31 AM on March 23, 2016

This campaign is getting really ugly, now that they are down to taking shots at each other's wives. Here's Mittens, keeping it classy.
posted by nubs at 11:52 AM on March 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Maybe I'm just tired but Romney's joke gave me a pretty good chuckle.
posted by bonobothegreat at 2:01 PM on March 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm also tired but I also chuckled.
posted by zutalors! at 2:05 PM on March 23, 2016

Romney's joke about Trump is reasonably funny (even though I am pretty sure it's not his, here's a reddit link from January [don't read the comments]).

Romney's joke about how Cruz can assuage his doubt's regarding Romney's Mormonity by asking "my wives" legit cracked me up.

If this Romney had been around in 2012, I might have been worried for our boy Barry.
posted by sparklemotion at 2:08 PM on March 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Wasn't it a right wing thing to call him "Barry"? I don't like it, anyway. It reminds me of the "Barry O" comments that were always followed by racism, Kenyan Muslim etc.
posted by zutalors! at 2:09 PM on March 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Eh...it was his nickname. And the wingnuts totally would have tacked on "Hussein" in there as well (which I was tempted to do, but didn't want to get too familiar).

I think that if we can applaud Mitt for making a mormon polygamy joke, we can probably handle looking at the president in a less than serious light at the same time.
posted by sparklemotion at 2:23 PM on March 23, 2016

J can handle it, it just seems like a slur that's just as well avoided.
posted by zutalors! at 2:24 PM on March 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Like "Dubya," or "Mittens"? Or the various references to the size of Trumps "hands"?

I just don't see how, in this context, calling the president by his childhood nickname could be taken as a slur. And even in the wider context, where the "Hussein" Obama stuff comes in, that only seems like a slur if you assume that there's something wrong with having a Muslim name.
posted by sparklemotion at 2:56 PM on March 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

Um, yeah, use it if you want but racists use it a lot and no, I don't have a problem with Muslim names. Objection noted, maybe?
posted by zutalors! at 4:16 PM on March 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

I saw quite a good joke about Cruz attributed either to one of his fellow Senators or one of their staffers:

Why does everybody hate Cruz on sight?

Saves time.
posted by jamjam at 12:01 AM on March 24, 2016 [5 favorites]