April 24th is coming
March 8, 2016 5:52 PM   Subscribe

A completely not safe for work trailer for season 6 of Game of Thrones has arrived, along with intensive speculation about what's going on in it.

There have been several teasers for this season already, including a look back, a Targaryen battle banner, the Stark battle banner, the Lannister battle banner and the Hall of Faces
posted by Brandon Blatcher (142 comments total) 9 users marked this as a favorite
 
Guys, I don't think Tommen's kittens make it.
posted by Dr. Zira at 5:58 PM on March 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


Ser Pounce 4evar!
posted by nubs at 6:04 PM on March 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


Jon Snow is truly dead, but Jon Stark or Targaryen is alive and pissed [hypothesized]
posted by clockzero at 6:09 PM on March 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm meeting Peter Dinklage in a few weeks. (No, really.) Anybody got any questions you want me to ask him?

/ducks to avoid onslaught
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 6:14 PM on March 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


Part of me wishes they'd just decide to fuck with the audience with the new season. It opens with a completely new actor saying, "What a crazy dream" and the show is now a police procedural set in the 18th century Ottoman Empire with an entirely new cast. No further explanation, no reference ever again to the first five seasons.
posted by Sangermaine at 6:16 PM on March 8, 2016 [87 favorites]


Any chance of a Death at a Funeral sequel? Either version?
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:17 PM on March 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


If Tyrion Lannister were running for the Republican nomination, how would Tyrion attack Trump? Asking for a friend...
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:20 PM on March 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Also, Sangermaine, that sounds like my pet theory that the big reveal in The Winds of Winter involves Dany flying a dragon way south into Ulthos, crossing an impossibly high mountain range... and finding out that most of "Planetos" is this retro-future Jetsonesque utopia, and that they are kind of blown away that all the crazy rumors they heard about dragons up north are true.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:21 PM on March 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


I'm meeting Peter Dinklage in a few weeks. (No, really.) Anybody got any questions you want me to ask him?

I'm jealous. No questions, but say hi from a big fan?


Part of me wishes they'd just decide to fuck with the audience with the new season. It opens with a completely new actor saying, "What a crazy dream" and the show is now a police procedural set in the 18th century Ottoman Empire with an entirely new cast. No further explanation, no reference ever again to the first five seasons.

Only way that gets better is if the lead detective is Gendry.


Anyways, this might be a place to mention that we are forming a Club for the A Song of Ice & Fire Books over on Fanfare.
posted by nubs at 6:27 PM on March 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


"Anybody got any questions you want me to ask him?"

I'm curious if he thinks his GoT role will overshadow future work that he's in, if it will hinder the possibility of playing significantly different characters.

But honestly, I don't have much to say to famous people, and have been known to go out to out of my way to give them privacy instead of bugging them with my stupid questions, so feel free to not ask him this; I'm sure some journalist will be asking this question (or already has). I'd say buy him a beer, but I'm sure he has his own beer money, and you'd already do that for him if he wanted one.

But enjoy the meeting, he seems pretty rad!
posted by el io at 6:28 PM on March 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Guys, I don't think Tommen's kittens make it.

YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH.
posted by longdaysjourney at 6:29 PM on March 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


If Tyrion Lannister were running for the Republican nomination, how would Tyrion attack Trump? Asking for a friend...

Easy.

Lannister/Littlefinger 2016.
posted by Fizz at 6:29 PM on March 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


how would Tyrion attack Trump?

Possibly with a different, funnier, and much more devious version of the small hands joke.
posted by mwhybark at 6:32 PM on March 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


Lannister/Littlefinger 2016.

See? It writes itself.
posted by mwhybark at 6:32 PM on March 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


Someone needs to be beaten about the head and shoulders with his own acoustic guitar. Yikes. But the trailer was cool!
posted by freecellwizard at 6:34 PM on March 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm meeting Peter Dinklage in a few weeks. (No, really.) Anybody got any questions you want me to ask him?

"Do you just have a normal-sized telly?"
posted by turbid dahlia at 6:38 PM on March 8, 2016


It opens with a completely new actor saying, "What a crazy dream" and the show is now a police procedural

It's all in the Game...of thrones
posted by ennui.bz at 6:38 PM on March 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


"Jon, you're alive?!"

"Yes, but I must return to my home planet now!"
posted by Sangermaine at 6:39 PM on March 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


It opens with a completely new actor saying, "What a crazy dream" and the show is now a police procedural

I already predicted the ending of this show back in 2014.
posted by Fizz at 6:41 PM on March 8, 2016


I'm meeting Peter Dinklage in a few weeks. (No, really.) Anybody got any questions you want me to ask him?

What qualities, techniques, or talents does he especially appreciate in other actors, and are there any up-and-coming actors he particularly likes for any of these qualities?

What qualities make a good person? (This is a question I intend to start asking a lot of people)
posted by amtho at 6:41 PM on March 8, 2016


No further explanation, no reference ever again to the first five seasons.

I will tender actual cash monies for this to occur, and if CPB can convince Mr. Dinklage to carry this torch for us we will have no choice but to carry him (CPB) upon our shoulders until the end of days.
posted by aramaic at 6:44 PM on March 8, 2016


He will ride eternal, shiny and chrome!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:07 PM on March 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


Lena Headey seems pretty enthused about it on Twitter and that's good enough for me.
posted by Artw at 7:09 PM on March 8, 2016


it's super weird to me to hear this song without seeing sexy people rolling around on VH1 Beach shooting smoldering glances at Chris Isaak through eyefuls of sand. anyway i hope the pixie boy has a nice time up north this season
posted by Greg Nog at 7:14 PM on March 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


That was NSFW?
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:22 PM on March 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


Hey, Brandon's a teenager! Really looking forward to a whole season of not knowing where they're going. The show is now the authoritative text.
posted by skewed at 7:23 PM on March 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Anybody got any questions you want me to ask him?

1) My 65+ parents LOVED him in Pixels, just flat out declared it their fave PPV movie of the year (so far) because of him, tho they have never seen GoT nor The Station Keeper. Yes, that's a question.

2) Ice Age 3 - that accent? He's just messing with us. Yes, that's a question.

3) Is or is not The Onion Knight pulling a sword while apologizing for the skill with which he will be wielding it, as a courtly, polite and insincere sort of apology, the single most bad-ass scene he was not directly in? No, that's not a question.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:36 PM on March 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


Personally, I'm looking forward to Mesut Pasha of the Commissariat.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 7:38 PM on March 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Anybody got any questions you want me to ask him?

Was his participation in the concert video segment for Rush's Roll the Bones because of his brother's playing with them, or is he a fan of the band?

Re: the trailer. Looking at it part of me thinks "wow, this is my kind of TV". Then the memories of all the pointless deviations from the books, the rapes, the wasted opportunities, the rapes, the fact that they're going to move into book-spoiler territory, and the rapes make all of this ashes in my mouth. I just hope George finishes the damn books in my lifetime.
posted by Ber at 7:46 PM on March 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I just hope George finishes the damn books in my lifetime.

Or his.
posted by Sangermaine at 7:49 PM on March 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Book spoiler? You can't spoil something that doesn't exist and almost certainly never will before Gurm's death.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 7:50 PM on March 8, 2016


Wow, I'm a huge violence wuss, and THAT was NSFW? REALLY? Where do you work?
posted by evilDoug at 7:53 PM on March 8, 2016


A Precinct of Pashas?
A Flight of Fezes?
A Jungle of Jannissaries?
posted by pompomtom at 7:55 PM on March 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


I can't wait to see who gets raped for my entertainment this season!
posted by Nelson at 7:58 PM on March 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


The show is now the authoritative text. ~skewed

No. No, it is not. GRRM will live long enough to complete the series. He will. He will. He will? (Oh, please let the writer of the good epic live long enough and then some...)
posted by Ignorantsavage at 8:03 PM on March 8, 2016


I'm meeting Peter Dinklage in a few weeks. (No, really.) Anybody got any questions you want me to ask him?

How do you feel about New Jersey? What did your bedroom look like as a teenager? Do you have a favorite costume?
posted by Diagonalize at 8:08 PM on March 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I know it's not a good long-term plan but for the moment captured in the trailer I'm quite happy with saying: YES CERSEI HAVE THE FRANKENDUDE SMASH THEIR STUPID FACES

Just for a little while, at least.
posted by rewil at 8:21 PM on March 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


I'm meeting Peter Dinklage in a few weeks. (No, really.) Anybody got any questions you want me to ask him?

sock shoe sock shoe or sock sock shoe shoe?

toilet paper: over or under?

shoes on or off inside the house?

or well just ask these
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:21 PM on March 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Gif pronunciation.
posted by Artw at 8:25 PM on March 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Jif, obvs. it's not Peter Dinklaguh, see?
posted by mwhybark at 8:46 PM on March 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


It's pronounced "Valar Morghulis, the Iron Bank Sends its Regards."

Also Guh-iff.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:56 PM on March 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm a little bit concerned that Gendry is still out there in his rowboat.
posted by SpacemanStix at 9:17 PM on March 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


FUCKING CONFIRMED!
posted by jjwiseman at 9:26 PM on March 8, 2016


Spoilers ahead:

I don't get why people act like Jon Snow dying is a big deal. Death in these books is a revolving door! Beric Dondarrion died seven times! We know that the Red God can raise the dead, and a major priestess of the Red God is in the exact same place Jon was killed.
posted by Itaxpica at 9:27 PM on March 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds the Chris Isaak song very weird. I actually thought this was a fan-made fake trailer at first.

It's so on-the-nose and out of tune with the show. So strange.
posted by rokusan at 9:27 PM on March 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


No. No, it is not. GRRM will live long enough to complete the series. He will. He will. He will?

I was kind of spooked tonight when I saw people on Twitter talking about how George Martin had died...
posted by happyroach at 9:55 PM on March 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Cersei's new hairstyle really works
posted by Bwithh at 9:57 PM on March 8, 2016


I don't get why people act like Jon Snow dying is a big deal. Death in these books is a revolving door! Beric Dondarrion died seven times! We know that the Red God can raise the dead, and a major priestess of the Red God is in the exact same place Jon was killed.

I realize it's been telegraphed all to hell, but I really, really hope they don't do this. I think they've done as much as they can usefully do with that character and that its time to move on. It's not like there aren't any number of awesome chars who can carry on the war against Crazypants McFlayerson and his Dear Old Dad this season.

Seriously, the Onion Knight and the Red Woman can carry that whole subplot between the two of them. There's no need to bring John back.
posted by AdamCSnider at 10:01 PM on March 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm the only one who wants book songs in the show, huh? Everyone else wants crappy 90s songs?
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 10:01 PM on March 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


I predict endless filler arcs while we wait for the mangaka to catch up. Jamie Lannister goes on a quest to find penicillin. Arya tries to trick Jaqen H'ghar into revealing his true face by inviting him out for raamen. Melisandre gets a slightly frillier transformation sequence.
posted by yeolcoatl at 10:08 PM on March 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


The rumor I heard* is that the theme song for next season is a medievalized cover of "Faith of the Heart" performed by Miley Cyrus and the Flaming Lips.

*well, imagined really
posted by mwhybark at 10:09 PM on March 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I know that GRRM's "not my bitch", but can I take a few to mourn the loss of the books, I'm really sad that the series has caught up to the story. I LOVE the series, but compared to the books it's just not comparable. So yeah, I'm really sad that the series is going to spoil the books. Maybe GRRM should hire Brandon Sanderson to finish the series :P
posted by Hazelsmrf at 10:16 PM on March 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Onion Knight about to strike Jon's head off to prevent him from coming back as a wight, right there?

I presume that is about 4 frames before Jon's eyes snap open and reveal themselves to be a penetrating blue.
posted by KathrynT at 10:51 PM on March 8, 2016


Oooh, or PURPLE.
posted by KathrynT at 10:51 PM on March 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Or LASERS
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:59 PM on March 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


"Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Onion Knight about to strike Jon's head off to prevent him from coming back as a wight, right there?"

I think Davos is about to fight the other men in the room to prevent Jon's body from being burned.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:13 PM on March 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


It opens with a completely new actor saying, "What a crazy dream"

"There was even a dwarf in it!"
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:33 PM on March 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


TOWER OF JOY PEOPLE. IT'S HAPPENING.
posted by Justinian at 12:33 AM on March 9, 2016 [4 favorites]


From the second link: Jorah the Explorah. *slow clap*
posted by like_neon at 2:03 AM on March 9, 2016 [14 favorites]


Maybe GRRM should hire Brandon Sanderson to finish the series

The component parts of James S. A. Corey are literally RIGHT THERE and half of them wrote an awesome fantasy series that's wrapping up this year.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 4:02 AM on March 9, 2016


It opens with a completely new actor saying, "What a crazy dream"

"No. But it wasn't a dream. It was a place. And you were there Uncle Stannis, and you Aunt Cersie - and you John - and Tyrion and Hodor you were there.. "

And then for fifty years people speculate about whether Game of Thrones was a satire on monetary policy.
posted by happyroach at 7:06 AM on March 9, 2016


I predict endless filler arcs while we wait for the mangaka to catch up.

Oh god, now I can only see the new season as anime. "It's not as if I want the Iron Throne or anything, b-b-baka!"
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 7:17 AM on March 9, 2016 [2 favorites]


And then for fifty years people speculate about whether Game of Thrones was a satire on monetary policy.

Wait, all that talk about "paying the iron price" is just complaining about debased coinage? And warging is a metaphor for bi-metallism? OK, maybe Mance Rayder is Williams Jennings Bryan, yeah, this is starting to come together.
posted by Copronymus at 7:26 AM on March 9, 2016 [3 favorites]


Comeuppances! Comeuppances for everyone! YOU get a comeuppance and YOU get a comeuppance!

Did we just get a very quick and blurry shot of the first appearance of Howland Reed in either books or show? Tower of Joy, bitches!

*settles down*
posted by echocollate at 7:35 AM on March 9, 2016


Cersai's "I chose violence" pretty much does sum up everything about the show, for good or ill.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:14 AM on March 9, 2016 [2 favorites]


Is it a sign of GoT fatigue that this thread only has 66 comments?

(And is no one else a Cleganebowl fan?)
posted by jjwiseman at 9:45 AM on March 9, 2016


I realize it's been telegraphed all to hell, but I really, really hope they don't do this. I think they've done as much as they can usefully do with that character and that its time to move on. It's not like there aren't any number of awesome chars who can carry on the war against Crazypants McFlayerson and his Dear Old Dad this season.

Actually there's a certain part of me going "welp, y'all just killed the one guy who was trying to prevent the ice giants from fucking it all up, bring on the march of the undead army!" And we get a season or two of the undead army steamrolling over Crazypants McFlayerson and Poorly-Disguised-Argus-Filch and the Brotherlover and the undead have a nice beach vacation before Daenerys and Tyrion come back to a power / people vacuum.

Sort of like Oprah, but with undead killing machines.
posted by Kyol at 9:54 AM on March 9, 2016 [1 favorite]


As a once-rabid fan of books and show, I had sworn off both after that disastrous fifth season. Cold turkey. I hadn't followed any of the casting news or peeked at any illicit set photos, nor could I even tell you if any more TWOW chapters have been previewed in the past year. And I resisted watching this trailer, for half a day or so. But ... just when you think you're out, they yaddi yaddi yadda. I will watch this season and probably hate myself for it.

And gorramit, if Sansa doesn't end up coolly ordering the deaths of, like, everyone, I will be sorely disappointed. #DAQUEENINDANORF
posted by The Nutmeg of Consolation at 10:05 AM on March 9, 2016 [4 favorites]


Did we just get a very quick and blurry shot of the first appearance of Howland Reed in either books or show?

Only if you think Howland Reed isn't the High Sparrow or Ser Shadrich or the Hooded Man.

When you walk in the woods of fandom, one must wear tinfoil. It is known.
posted by nubs at 10:08 AM on March 9, 2016 [5 favorites]


April 24!!!!!??? ARGHHH
posted by Liquidwolf at 10:25 AM on March 9, 2016


There is some speculation that April 24 is the start date because it will make the air date of the second episode coincide with Easter on the Orthodox Christian calendar.
posted by nubs at 10:34 AM on March 9, 2016 [1 favorite]


Did we just get a very quick and blurry shot of the first appearance of Howland Reed in either books or show?

There were very quick and blurry shots of several people!

(And is no one else a Cleganebowl fan?)

Ian McShane is!

Is it a sign of GoT fatigue that this thread only has 66 comments?

This is new territory, so the book readers don't have much to complain about, which is most of the GoT internet conversation.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:54 AM on March 9, 2016 [3 favorites]


And I resisted watching this trailer, for half a day or so. But ... just when you think you're out, they yaddi yaddi yadda.

You weren't alone: Game of Thrones trailer breaks HBO record: 30 million views
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:06 AM on March 9, 2016


So, why did Littlefinger convince Sansa to go back to Winterfell and marry Ramsay? To toughen her up? I've never been able to figure that one out.
posted by Fister Roboto at 11:20 AM on March 9, 2016


Join the Hall of Faces

Guys, I don't think Tommen's kittens make it.

The actor was quietly let go
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:32 AM on March 9, 2016


I think she would take power once the death of the other Boltons had been arranged.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 11:33 AM on March 9, 2016


I was responding to Fister Roboto, not ChurchHatesTucker....
posted by paper chromatographologist at 11:34 AM on March 9, 2016


I don't think the show creators themselves bothered to figure that one out, frankly. Apparently they were simply enamored with the idea of tossing Sansa in with the Boltons and Ramsay in particular.
posted by The Nutmeg of Consolation at 11:38 AM on March 9, 2016


GET HYPE
posted by trunk muffins at 11:39 AM on March 9, 2016 [2 favorites]


So, why did Littlefinger convince Sansa to go back to Winterfell and marry Ramsay? To toughen her up? I've never been able to figure that one out.

So that he, Littlefinger, would have a hold on the North. He may or may not have known how terrible Ramsay is, but his goal was definitely to have a some sort of legitimate claim over the North via Sansa. I'm guessing he hoped to bump off the Boltons and marry her in time, as he was already Lord of the Vale, so he'd have control over two regions that were impossible or difficult to control and defeat.

That would give him a seat of power to begin expanding.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:08 PM on March 9, 2016


Yeah, Littlefinger's plan appears to be:

1. Return Sansa to the North!
2. Marry her to the Boltons to improve Bolton legitimacy as rulers in the North!
3. Something happens!
4. Littlefinger profits!

It could have given him two power bases, but I would hope that his return to Winterfell is going to be met with more fire and steel than anything else at this point. Since Brandon has suggested a need for some book reader complaints, I'll just say that the show could have improved things by grafting some of other northern storylines from A Dance with Dragons onto Sansa along with making her be Jeyne Poole (because god knows we needed that storyline). Then we could have had some pie to help with the sour taste. Also, if that is the Tower of Joy, the knights of the Kingsguard should be in their Kingsguard armor, not armor with the Targaryen sigil on it

There's no need to bring John back.

Actually, we need to see Jon's longform birth certificate before making that determination.
posted by nubs at 12:47 PM on March 9, 2016 [6 favorites]


2. Marry her to the Boltons to improve Bolton legitimacy as rulers in the North!
3. Something happens!


Littlefinger is unwilling to attack directly at this point. So marrying Sansa off gives him a backdoor way getting close to the Boltons, which means he can find a weakness and then find someway to topple them and possibly be regarded as hero by the North for restoring a Stark the head of the realm.

I suspect Sansa's treatment at Ramsey's hands will make her less keen to side with anyone but herself. And having watched from the sidelines for a while, she probably won't let Littlefinger know that until later.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:55 PM on March 9, 2016 [1 favorite]


With the R+L=J thing pretty much accepted as what GRRM was always going for, it's more a question of how at this point, isn't it? I mean, showing the Tower of Joy is just gloating now.

Other than maybe the whole DJJ thing in Star Wars*, I can't think of another "fan theory" with so much legitimate, documented, actually-in-the-text weight behind it in any work of fiction, ever.

* I am still glaring at you, Greg Nog.
posted by rokusan at 3:20 PM on March 9, 2016 [1 favorite]


With the R+L=J thing pretty much accepted as what GRRM was always going for, it's more a question of how at this point, isn't it? I mean, showing the Tower of Joy is just gloating now.

Well, the evidence for it to this point has been solely in the books; the show hasn't really done much that I can recall to point people in that direction. So they're going to have to pull people to it, because in all honesty if I think if you asked most show-only people about R and L right now (using their full names), they wouldn't know who they are. They have had a much stronger presence on the page than on the screen. (Funniest moment I saw around this was back in season 1, when someone who was show only stumbled on the theory in some online discussion, but made a rather hilarious assumption about who R was and dismissed the whole thing as stupid and pointless on that basis).

I also find it interesting that when the series started, twenty years ago, there wasn't quite this intense scrutiny of the source material and tinfoil everywhere. R+L=J was a theory I only discussed with a few people, and while the evidence was there, it wasn't something a lot of people necessarily saw right away. Now, with the increased interest and over-heated internet discussions, the theory has spread a fair bit and become acknowledged. Legitimized, so to speak. And, frankly, when you know the theory, it practically jumps off the page at you, but I know lots of readers who never picked up on it until someone pointed it out.

Not sure what my point was, but really the Tower of Joy is an iconic book scene in its own right, beyond the theorizing, and I'm hoping they do it justice.
posted by nubs at 3:38 PM on March 9, 2016 [3 favorites]


I mean, Littlefinger's plan sounded good on paper, I'm sure book readers would have been keen on seeing Stannis storm and torch the Dreadfort and then anoint Sansa as Warden of the North.
posted by Apocryphon at 4:12 PM on March 9, 2016


Years back I decided to hold off on the books until the show was done. I guess i can actually start reading them now, come to think of it!
posted by mwhybark at 4:15 PM on March 9, 2016


I don't know about good, it's a gamble that requires careful grooming. But it does put Baelish at little risk, so it was worth it to try, because if it succeeds, there's one powerful little dude.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:17 PM on March 9, 2016


His plan was only off by twenty men.
posted by Apocryphon at 4:18 PM on March 9, 2016


nubs: Well, the evidence for it to this point has been solely in the books; the show hasn't really done much that I can recall to point people in that direction.

There's been some; my boss, who hasn't read the books, worked out R+L based on the scene between Littlefinger and Sansa in the crypt last season.

There was also a show scene with Dany where someone started talking about blue roses for no apparent reason (in season 4 I think), which was obviously a nod to the theory, although it could have been misdirection.

[In your funniest moment, the hilarious assumption would be Robert maybe?]
posted by Pink Frost at 4:33 PM on March 9, 2016 [1 favorite]


His plan was only off by twenty men.

Sort of. Ramsey (who lead the 20 men) seems to be a wildcard who is unknowingly messing up lots of things.

Psychopaths are so troublesome!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:44 PM on March 9, 2016 [2 favorites]


Littlefinger is unwilling to attack directly at this point. So marrying Sansa off gives him a backdoor way getting close to the Boltons, which means he can find a weakness and then find someway to topple them and possibly be regarded as hero by the North for restoring a Stark the head of the realm.

I have no problem with Littlefinger taking a bit of a calculated risk to further his plans, its just that the whole move seems like him just taking a risk. The whole idea behind Littlefinger's "chaos is a ladder" ethos should mean he's working so that he comes out ahead whatever the outcome. Which he does if the union with Ramsay gives him friends in the stable North, or if it provides an opportunity to topple the Boltons and leave Sansa in charge; but the current state of affairs seems to leave him down a piece in the Game for no real advantage to exploit. Whatever, I'm frankly a little frustrated with show Littlefinger in general.

There's been some; my boss, who hasn't read the books, worked out R+L based on the scene between Littlefinger and Sansa in the crypt last season.

Thanks Pink Frost, I have apparently blotted some of last season from my mind. And yes, the wrong assumption was that the R was Robert, and the guy couldn't understand the fuss over another of Robert's bastards.
posted by nubs at 7:20 PM on March 9, 2016


Honestly the only thing I really want from this season is Sansa sitting on some sort of throne, sentencing Littlefinger to death with cold, dead eyes. And then watching his execution with a little smile.

Also feeding Bolton to his own dogs.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 7:50 PM on March 9, 2016 [2 favorites]


I want Frey Pie. I demand Frey Pie.
posted by Justinian at 8:47 PM on March 9, 2016 [3 favorites]


I find it hard to believe that any sort of R+L=J storyline would be that interesting to show-watchers. The history is just so impossible to follow if you're not seeing it in text and only getting snippets a few minutes a week spaced apart across 5 years. Surely every book-reader has been asked to explain something that is vaguely alluded to. It always goes like this:

"Yeah they're talking about Ned, the Stark father who got killed five years ago. They were saying that he got an argument with the old king, the fat one who died five years ago. The old king sad that Ned's sister died. No, she was never in the show, just mentioned. Yeah, she was suppose to marry the old king, but Dany's brother messed up that plan. No, not that brother who died five years ago, another one. No, he was never in the show, just mentioned. He died like fifteen years ago. Yeah, I have no idea if you're really supposed to have remembered all that."
posted by skewed at 9:26 PM on March 9, 2016 [2 favorites]


TV-only, and to add on to what Pink Frost just said, there were also the very first season conversations between Eddard and Robert, one also in a crypt (hmmm) and the other during their little picnic, wherever that was.

But yes, as I said above, it's mainly about what GRRM intended in the text for me. I agree there's much less meat on the show version, at least so far, and I suppose it's possible they'll go a different way, or continue to dodge it altogether.
posted by rokusan at 9:29 PM on March 9, 2016


What are thoughts about how they're handling the Greyjoys? No Victarion? WHAT?
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 9:30 PM on March 9, 2016


Ambrosia, I have never really understood most of the cutting they've done on the show. Would it make less money if they slowed down for ten or eleven seasons, rather than rushing through seven?

Are there some very studio-unfriendly contracts in play, or what?
posted by rokusan at 9:31 PM on March 9, 2016


Aging actors? Worried they won't sustain the audience for that many seasons?

Are we sure there's no Victarion, though? We do seem to have the Kingsmoot - so maybe he appears? Or maybe Victarion and Euron combined into one? (wild speculation).
posted by Pink Frost at 10:02 PM on March 9, 2016


I think the show is like any movie /TV adaptations of PKD stuff... You can't read the book/story too close to watching the visual version bc you'll just get confused and mad about all the changes.

They're like alternate timeliness or something. Text is one, visual another

I had started rereading the hooks when the show came out and just kept getting angrier so I gave up on the show.

However it's been long enough since I read the books that I could prob start watching again and not get all caught up in details.

And just hide my face during all the additional rape and violence that aren't even in the book altho the book is damn well violent enough.

Hmm... I do need to stay home more. I should start the show over.
posted by sio42 at 1:05 AM on March 10, 2016


I have no problem with Littlefinger taking a bit of a calculated risk to further his plans, its just that the whole move seems like him just taking a risk. The whole idea behind Littlefinger's "chaos is a ladder" ethos should mean he's working so that he comes out ahead whatever the outcome. Which he does if the union with Ramsay gives him friends in the stable North, or if it provides an opportunity to topple the Boltons and leave Sansa in charge; but the current state of affairs seems to leave him down a piece in the Game for no real advantage to exploit.

Yes, I'm very curious to see how Baelish will deal with what's transpired in the North and of course, how Sansa deals with it. Especially since Baelish was sort of her friend/ally and knowing that he arranged her marriage to Ramsey has got to set off something in her.

Littlefinger's plan and chaos ladder schtick work well when no one else knows his game. BUT SANSA KNOWS. She's literally the only one who knows and what she does with that information will be very interesting. Baelish may have made a big mistake by cluing her in to his schemes.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:16 AM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]


What are thoughts about how they're handling the Greyjoys? No Victarion? WHAT?

After the hash they made of Dorne last season, part of me is kind of hoping they'd just leave the Greyjoys alone.
posted by nubs at 8:10 AM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]


I find it hard to believe that any sort of R+L=J storyline would be that interesting to show-watchers. The history is just so impossible to follow if you're not seeing it in text and only getting snippets a few minutes a week spaced apart across 5 years.

They'll probably take advantage of Project Quantum Leap Bran's greensight visions to contextualize R+L=J properly. Make it the answer to a family mystery that Bran actively tries to solve using untested (and possibly dangerous) powers.
posted by Iridic at 8:57 AM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]


Ambrosia, I have never really understood most of the cutting they've done on the show. Would it make less money if they slowed down for ten or eleven seasons, rather than rushing through seven?

Are there some very studio-unfriendly contracts in play, or what?


From what I understand the show runners would like to do it in seven or eight, they always intended that. But there's been some tension about what they want and what corporate HBO wants, especially since the show is such a ratings monster.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:12 AM on March 10, 2016




If they want to take a page out of fantasy YA film adaptations, they need to split the final season into parts 1 and 2.
posted by Apocryphon at 9:42 AM on March 10, 2016


Oh god please don't. Since I've moved to Britain, I am against the American entertainment industry's inability to let go of a series without milking and beating it to death until it's gasping and flailing and irrelevant.

I really admire the way most British shows last maybe 3 series, at most. They really know how to end a show while it's still going strong. If you're lucky you might get a lame Christmas special that you slightly regret ever happened.
posted by like_neon at 9:48 AM on March 10, 2016


And just jumping back to say yes I am aware of things like Coronation Street and Dr. Who but I stand by my opinion and point to things like The Office, Peep Show, Gavin & Stacy etc.
posted by like_neon at 10:02 AM on March 10, 2016


Peep Show had 9 series, though.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:52 AM on March 10, 2016


If you're lucky you might get a lame Christmas special that you slightly regret ever happened.

Jon and Dany are trying to get back to their family in Braavos before the Uncloaking Festival, but they are being chased by the White Walkers. Meanwhile, in Braavos, Auntie Arya and the kids learn how to change their faces in a fun song and dance number with the Faceless Men, and Uncle Sam spends some time on the canal barges. At the end, everyone gathers at the Titan and sing a celebration song to the tune of the main theme.
posted by nubs at 11:15 AM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]


If they want to take a page out of fantasy YA film adaptations, they need to split the final season into parts 1 and 2.

It's being considered, especially as that would lock the cast in to the seven seasons. Evidently they could split a final season across two years and still have it count as one season contract wise.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:52 AM on March 10, 2016


At the end, everyone gathers at the Titan and sing a celebration song to the tune of the main theme.

AND ARE BRUTALLY SLAUGHTERED
posted by InfidelZombie at 12:48 PM on March 10, 2016


Yeah, I'm not some book purist who insists on no changes -- lord knows there were massive sections that did nothing useful, storywise -- but what I'm wondering is whether anyone else feels that Season 1-2-3, for example, seemed to the right speed, and season 4-5 have felt rushed.

I really think I want them to slow down, whether it's to include more book content or, you know, just to slow down and enjoy this.
posted by rokusan at 4:11 PM on March 10, 2016


AND ARE BRUTALLY SLAUGHTERED

Maybe a little bit of incidental slaughter, sure. But we're not talking a wedding here.

Yeah, I'm not some book purist who insists on no changes -- lord knows there were massive sections that did nothing useful, storywise -- but what I'm wondering is whether anyone else feels that Season 1-2-3, for example, seemed to the right speed, and season 4-5 have felt rushed.

And rushed for the wrong reasons. The show has done, in general, a good job of cutting away some of the cruft of the books, but then it has rushed certain storylines so that we can have things like Jaime and Bronn go to Dorne, which really did very, very little for anything. That could have been dropped (or curtailed) to give us a lot of room for bigger storylines in other areas.
posted by nubs at 4:50 PM on March 10, 2016


I don't think the show creators themselves bothered to figure that one out, frankly. Apparently they were simply enamored with the idea of tossing Sansa in with the Boltons and Ramsay in particular.

As I understood it, early on the showrunners wanted to keep the Jeyne Poole subplot despite Jeyne's character not being on the show, then they decided to use Sansa since she's an established character who the audience was invested in.
posted by homunculus at 11:40 PM on March 11, 2016


I can't wait to see who gets raped for my entertainment this season!

Prediction: Wight-rape. The wights are going to start raping the living with whatever bits of flesh and bone they have left.

It's the next logical step.
posted by homunculus at 11:41 PM on March 11, 2016


And just hide my face during all the additional rape and violence that aren't even in the book altho the book is damn well violent enough.

I rewatched the whole series when HBO ran a marathon during the holidays, and I had to keep switching it off for a bit because I couldn't stomach a lot of the horror a second time around. (I like to imagine that Varys was breaking the fourth wall and talking to the showrunners when he talked about horror.)

But maybe this season won't be quite as bad. The showrunners claim they've changed their approach somewhat due to all the complaints about the rape scenes. OTOH, this doesn't inspire much confidence.

Still, I'll be watching when it starts. Rewatching the whole series reminded me of how much I enjoyed the first three seasons and made me hopeful for new the one despite how disappointing the last one was. I'm particularly looking forward to Max von Sydow and Ian McShane's characters.
posted by homunculus at 11:57 PM on March 11, 2016


but then it has rushed certain storylines so that we can have things like Jaime and Bronn go to Dorne, which really did very, very little for anything.

"It’s really hard not to feel that the whole point of this plotline was the egregious display of Tyene Sand's fulsome bosom."
posted by homunculus at 11:58 PM on March 11, 2016


I'm meeting Peter Dinklage in a few weeks. (No, really.) Anybody got any questions you want me to ask him?

Ask him if he wants a good girl, but needs the bad pussy.
posted by homunculus at 12:52 AM on March 12, 2016


Jaimie went to Dorne to rescue his daughter and make a name for himself. He failed, which is probably partially fueling his and Cersei's anger in the trailer.

The Dorne arc has its problems but don't pretend nothing happened.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:59 AM on March 12, 2016


I thought the Dorne arc in the show was mostly boring and could have been cut. But since I also thought the Dorne arc in the show was mostly boring and should have been cut, hey, good job TV dudes.

Christ I hope we never have to hear the name "Connington" or... whoever all those other new characters I don't care about are.
posted by Justinian at 10:48 PM on March 13, 2016


so, uh, I started reading the books. I was always an admirer of Martin's earlier stuff, Sandkings and Nightflyers and Fevre Dream and Armageddon Rag, written before, I gather, he wrote in other genres and then for other mediums. I have fond memories of the shared-world anthologies he helmed, Wild Cards I think it was.

But, like, I am having the hardest time sticking with the first book! Even though I know it will become enjoyable to me as I note divergences from the show and so forth. The prose is so... so... undistinguished!

I don't recall the older work being so flat by any means; I recall prose and characters that couldn't be trusted, that required vigilance. I mean, I know the books were written for a different purpose than the earlier works and by a writer who had switched gears. But in my imagined version, these books were going to be duking it out with Silverberg's Majipoor and Aldiss' Helliconia.

I mean, I guess in a way they do, right, as they'll clearly be the capstone of the guy's career and have been massively more successful than these cited works, but honestly, I wanted him to be giving Aldiss a fair fight, and it's as if Martin didn't expect the prose to be measured against his peers' material.

Well, back to plodding through it, I guess.
posted by mwhybark at 2:42 AM on March 15, 2016


I attempted to read the book 3 times before it stuck.
posted by like_neon at 4:43 AM on March 15, 2016


NOT HELPING

kidding, but yeesh
posted by mwhybark at 7:51 AM on March 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Pro tip: There's an appendix, if you're trying to remember who Yoren is, or whatever.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:09 AM on March 15, 2016


Ser Marmot and Ser Boshite, like, your massed multitudes of needlessly named supporting characters. Dig.

Also what is *with* the cod-spelling biz? It's for flavor, right? You don't really notice it on the show, except for "maester." I guess it doesn't really bug me exactly but every time I hit "Ser" I want to know the etymology of the orthography and wonder how and why one would choose an alternate spelling to represent what is likely a word in a non-extant language and this leads to me waving my aerms around in the aer.

I really should simply put it from my mind.
posted by mwhybark at 9:40 AM on March 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Ser has some history behind it. Other things are just flavor.

With names he goes against standard fiction rules and uses the same names repeatedly because that's how it works in real life (e.g., "Henry" in England)

It's also useful to keep in mind that George is really bad at sizes and distances and it's best to consider them unreliable even when a character should know better.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:21 AM on March 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


So Tyrion's really just slightly undersized?

I jest; I take it you refer to planetary and geographic referents. There's actually prior art for this in both Majipoor and Helliconia - iirc Majipoor has a physical surface area equivalent to a gas giant but without the expected gravitational effects one would see in our universe. Helliconia seems to provide some of the inspiration for Westeros-world's (Aerth's?) seasons but was developed by Aldiss with a pretty significant amount of hard SF world building, in part as counterpoint to Majipoor.

So it could be argued splitting the difference between these approaches enables some fanciful statements of measure. In fact, this appears pretty early on, when we're told the cultural history of Westeros and the Starks stretches back 8,000 years. Chyeah, right.

Hey wait! There's my slippery authorial voice, hiding in plain sight!
posted by mwhybark at 10:34 AM on March 15, 2016


The 8,000 years thing is actually questioned in-story later on. (It's not clear if that was intended from the beginning or not. It works either way.)

I was referring more to sizes (the walls of Winterfell would be ten stories high) and distances (Westeros would be roughly South America, but it seems more like Great Britain.) That said, we've only seen something like a quarter of "Planetos" so far, if it's earth sized, so that much is plausible.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:49 AM on March 15, 2016


And there's giants and ice-zombies and dragons and fire magic. There's clearly enough room to argue "because magic" for any bits where there's a seam in the stageflats, as in economics or whatever. The narrative doesn't require detailed internal consistency of itself and it's not necessarily an authorial objective.
posted by mwhybark at 11:00 AM on March 15, 2016


Oh, yeah. Magic is a big component, and is explicitly cited (out of universe) as the cause of the variable seasons. It works as alternative physics, despite claims from various parties.

Like any created universe, though, there are blind spots. GRRM called out Tolkien for the absence of religion in Middle Earth (and more than made up for it) but appears to have only recently realized the need for a legal system besides "trial by combat."
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:09 AM on March 15, 2016


I've always taken the odd distances, sizes, and historical bits as a reflection of a couple of things. First, George was coming off a long stint of TV writing where he was fed up with being limited in size and scope, and wanted to do something big. So, things in Planeteos are big. Secondly, he enjoys his medieval history, and I know I've read in a couple of places that medieval histories are noted for some problematic numbers (usually for sizes of armies/soldiers), and I wonder if he is playing with that a bit - everything is a little exaggerated.

In terms of the history, I think that exaggeration idea is definitely at play - the "historical facts" of Westeros are very open to questioning, even the recent history of Robert's Rebellion. And every major house tries to call back to some mythic, legendary figure from thousands of years ago, and it isn't really clear what should be taken as myth and what as fact. But 8000 year old ruling Houses would have cadet branches that have spawned their own complex family trees and cadet branches, so...yeah, there's a lot of bits and pieces that kinda work and kinda don't. The first book suffers from the fact that at least through the first third/half everything is kinda secondary to establishing the world.

Anyways, we have a re-read going on over on FanFare, and if you've seen the series but are trying the books for the first time, you might also find it interesting. I don't think you'd get spoiled on anything, but you will see the tinfoil and get introduced to some of the storylines that the show doesn't do/hasn't done, largely for the better.
posted by nubs at 11:22 AM on March 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Secondly, he enjoys his medieval history, and I know I've read in a couple of places that medieval histories are noted for some problematic numbers (usually for sizes of armies/soldiers), and I wonder if he is playing with that a bit - everything is a little exaggerated.

I think he's consciously playing with things like that (I can't wait for the upcoming battle) but he's admitted at least some of his size blindness. When touring the set for the Wall, which was a fraction of its book (and TV) size, he said "I made it too tall."
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:37 AM on March 15, 2016


Oh, yeah, he's made mistakes. Beyond the size thing, the biggest one is with character ages - he started the kids off too young, which he has also acknowledged.
posted by nubs at 11:50 AM on March 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


The thing with trying to rationalize the distances is that if you take them literally than the travel times don't make sense. Then again, the travel times probably don't make sense anyway.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 12:29 PM on March 15, 2016


Thanks nubs, it hadn't occurred to me to see if the new books rollout might have spawned a thread.
posted by mwhybark at 2:54 PM on March 15, 2016


Oh, The Places It'll Snow!

Dr. Seuss' book remade as a Game of Thrones tale. (via; spoilers)
posted by fuse theorem at 3:16 PM on March 15, 2016




Ser Pounce.
posted by Artw at 11:14 PM on April 2, 2016 [4 favorites]


Westeros Weekly
posted by homunculus at 11:30 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]


AMC's Game of Thrones
posted by homunculus at 8:04 PM on April 5, 2016




"The Red Woman", S6 E1: Jon Snow is dead. Daenerys meets a strong man. Cersei sees her daughter again.

See you all on April 24.
posted by nubs at 2:30 PM on April 7, 2016


« Older "While our numbers are not great, we are mighty."   |   The Cats Who Came in From the Cold Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments