Xena and Gabrielle are not just gal-pals
March 14, 2016 2:17 PM   Subscribe

NBC's upcoming Xena: Warrior Princess reboot will skip all of the homoerotic innuendo this time, but not for the reason you expect. This time around, Xena will simply be openly gay.
posted by DirtyOldTown (60 comments total) 24 users marked this as a favorite
 
…but that's exactly the reason I'd expect?
posted by RogerB at 2:25 PM on March 14, 2016 [19 favorites]


That's the reason I'd hope. But from NBC, would it be the reason I'd expect?

Either way, my assessment of your expectations wouldn't count as the lede, I don't think.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:27 PM on March 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


This was exactly my first reaction. "So, there won't be any subtext then?"
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:39 PM on March 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Yay!
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:41 PM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Sounds good. If Xena is Lucy Lawless. Xena is Lucy Lawless, right?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 2:47 PM on March 14, 2016 [19 favorites]


…but that's exactly the reason I'd expect?

Nobody expects the lesbian exposition!
posted by zombieflanders at 2:49 PM on March 14, 2016 [166 favorites]


But could we have them be gay AND have innuendo? Perhaps even more innuendo?
posted by ckape at 2:52 PM on March 14, 2016 [30 favorites]


Xena is Lucy Lawless, right?

Xena is always Lucy Lawless.

... except that no, for this reboot, she won't be Lucy Lawless.

I've been following JGM's Twitter feed, and it's pretty encouraging. I have great hopes.
posted by suelac at 2:53 PM on March 14, 2016


If it isn't Lucy Lawless, shouldn't they have to call the show Schmena or Pseudoxena by divine law?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:58 PM on March 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Well, good. May this be just the start of things to be accomplished over Scalia's dead body.
posted by Capt. Renault at 3:03 PM on March 14, 2016 [32 favorites]


I can't wait to see who they get to play Lucy Lawless for the reboot.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 3:04 PM on March 14, 2016 [28 favorites]


What does this mean if they bring back Hannibal?
posted by Artw at 3:07 PM on March 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Can't say I'm not concerned about the prospects of a reboot of this or Hercules. They were so campy and PG outside of the costumes, it was sort of refreshing. It was almost like a kids adventure show for adults. I really hope that the reboot isn't going to be some gritty-fied version of what was a goofy and fun series. But this? Making Xena and Gabrielle a lesbian couple doesn't really change their dynamic much so if the new series sucks it won't be because of that.
posted by Hoopo at 3:11 PM on March 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Can we hope to get Lucy Lawless in a recurring minor role at least? I'm thinking Aphrodite, since that opens up the possibility of Nick Offerman as Hephaestus.
posted by McCoy Pauley at 3:17 PM on March 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


But from the person behind the 100. Which just really fucked with lesbians and other queer people in a totally predictable and pointless waste. So. My optimism is somewhat tempered

Actually, while JGM wrote "Thirteen", he wasn't the decision-maker there. He's the one who actually talked to fans and reblogged fans and listened to fans who were upset with the episode. The one to blame for The 100 is Jason Rothenberg, not Javier Grillo-Marxuach.

Decisions about who dies when, and under what circumstances, are always up to the showrunner, not the writer on a particular episode. JGM isn't the showrunner on The 100. He is for the new Xena reboot, which is why I'm so optimistic.
posted by suelac at 3:17 PM on March 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


Also, stoneweaver, if you'd actually RTFA, you'd discover exactly your concern addressed by Javi himself in paragraph two of said article.
posted by incessant at 3:23 PM on March 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


The creator of The Middleman teams up with the original creators of Xena. I'm cautiously optimistic.
posted by ckape at 3:24 PM on March 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


The creator of The Middleman teams up with the original creators of Xena. I'm cautiously optimistic.


I KNOW! I loved the Middleman. For one thing, there was a really lovely female friendship between Wendy & Lacey.
posted by suelac at 3:27 PM on March 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


If it isn't Lucy Lawless, shouldn't they have to call the show Schmena or Pseudoxena by divine law?

After Xena should come Caesia.
posted by Kabanos at 3:31 PM on March 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


This is fine.
posted by boo_radley at 3:37 PM on March 14, 2016


The creator of The Middleman teams up with the original creators of Xena

Does that include Sam Raimi? I hope it includes Sam Raimi
posted by Hoopo at 3:38 PM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


To surf on the net, or to surf TV channels,
Over and over, there's been one request:
It's Xena we want, the Warrior Princess,
At least Gabrielle, and we want them undressed.
Now, I have to admit, they're not unattractive,
But if we're talking fantasies, I want the best.

Aye, Callisto, I think that I love you,
You psycho **** leather queen killer bombshell.
Hai, Callisto, I sing to your spirit,
I'm doing it now, 'cause you're going to Hell.
- Tom Smith "Callisto" (May be NSFW/NSFChildren)
posted by Hasteur at 3:39 PM on March 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Oh, I hope they'll keep the intro. They'll have to, don't they? In a time of ancient gods, warlords and kings, a land in turmoil cried out for a hero. She was Xena, a mighty princess forged in the heat of battle...
Her courage will change the world...

You know how people who have lost their faculties and are unable to produce speech are sometimes still able to recite the Lord's Prayer, or Humpty Dumpty or whatever string of words is lodged into a different part of the brain than language? I just realized this is what I'll be mumbling over and over in my corner at the nursing home.
posted by sively at 3:39 PM on March 14, 2016 [39 favorites]


Ah, nostalgia....I lived a couple blocks away from the NYC bar Meow Mix during the years Xena was on, and they always had massive viewing parties every night followed by nerf sword fighting battles for shots or something.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:48 PM on March 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


I never really liked Xena, but I really really really really really ... really really really really like this. Not just a lesbian lead, lesbian titular character, AND she can't be killed off!
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 3:49 PM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I never got to Meow Mix for the viewing parties (I was living in DC at the time, but there were like buses and trains and stuff that travel between the two!) and I'm still a little sad about it. My life was a turmoil at the time, and Xena was a hero who helped me get through it.
posted by rtha at 3:49 PM on March 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I hope this written/played seriously, and not done as a "requisite girls kissing scene" in each episode.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:51 PM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I don't know whether or not I want this show to have quite as much camp as the original.
posted by kafziel at 3:54 PM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]




(I'm still pulling for a series about the Prime Minister of New Zealand and Paula.)
posted by Guy Smiley at 3:57 PM on March 14, 2016


Oh man, I loved Xena so much. Even though Joxer's* unrequited yearning for Gabrielle was the ultimate catnip to my preteen heart, I am 100% in favor of Xena being openly gay.

*Ted Raimi is probably the reason I imprinted on hopelessly dorky guys early on. ("Joxer the mighty/roams through the countryside/never needs a place to hide...")
posted by Diagonalize at 4:08 PM on March 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


I hope they film it in New Zealand again. The landscape was a huge part of Xena for me, and the accents of most of the bit players too.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 4:09 PM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I hope they age Gabrielle up. I was never squicked by the lesbian subtext like NBC apparently feared, but I was really squicked by the teacher/student romantic vibe. Let's have capable fully formed lady Gabrielle loving even more capable Xena!
posted by corb at 4:34 PM on March 14, 2016


If anyone hasn't seen The Middleman it's a thoroughly enjoyable piece of campy comic book fun with a kick-ass female protagonist. I think it's all basically up on Youtube.

To sweeten the pot, there's a cranky Midwestern android.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 4:47 PM on March 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


A lesbian lead on a primetime show.?

A fantasy show?

I want to be so very wrong about this, but I predict the pilot will get made, and probably aired, and then this show revival will die a swift death.

:sigh::
posted by Faintdreams at 4:48 PM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I hope they age Gabrielle up. I was never squicked by the lesbian subtext like NBC apparently feared, but I was really squicked by the teacher/student romantic vibe. Let's have capable fully formed lady Gabrielle loving even more capable Xena!

Renee O'Connor was 24 when the series started, and Lucy Lawless is only 3 years older than her.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:06 PM on March 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


But could we have them be gay AND have innuendo? Perhaps even more innuendo?

Inyourendo
posted by mrbigmuscles at 5:38 PM on March 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Renee O'Connor was 24 when the series started, and Lucy Lawless is only 3 years older than her.

Sure, but Xena has supposedly been adventuring for over a decade when the series starts, while Gabrielle is a teenager. The age of the actual actors doesn't factor into it.

(Granted, just about all fantasy likes to ignore age of consent because child brides were the rage way back when. But that doesn't make it a trend I like.)
posted by politikitty at 5:50 PM on March 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Yeah sorry, that's what I mean - age the character, not the actress. Just have them meet younger at equal ages!
posted by corb at 6:16 PM on March 14, 2016


On the one hand, hooray for a lesbian lead on a primetime show!
On the other hand, I'm pretty sure Xena was bisexual so.. booooooo to yet more bisexual erasure!
posted by ApathyGirl at 6:28 PM on March 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


You know, Lucy Lawless tore it up in Spartacus(also produced by Raimi and co). I would watch the hell out of a uber-violent Spartacus-type Xena.

Alas since this is broadcast TV it'll probably be gritty-fantasy like Grimm or gritty-tongue-in-cheek like Sleepy Hollow, which, meh. Lighting your scene with lightbulbs that can't produce more than 5 lumens does not make anything scarier people it just makes me squint more.

I'll also admit to really enjoying the show when it was on and really hating the show when I tried to get into it again on netflix.
posted by M Edward at 6:33 PM on March 14, 2016


I always had the impression that both Gabrielle and Xena were "whatevs" regarding the gender of potential lovers.

Also, Gina Torres is absolutely Cleopatra.
posted by maxwelton at 6:37 PM on March 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


LORD DAHAK RISES AGAIN
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:54 PM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


If Lucy Lawless is still Xena, does that make Xena a Cylon?
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 7:14 PM on March 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


100% in favor of time-travelling Cylon crossover story arc.
posted by rifflesby at 7:18 PM on March 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Parks and Recreation Lucy Lawless with Nick Offerman as Ron Swanson as Gabrielle.
posted by zippy at 7:33 PM on March 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


I did read the article? Which is how I knew that information? But it doesn't actually mean it doesn't concern me. I'm happy that it's reassuring to other people, but that doesn't mean it has to be to me.

I've been following Javi's tumblr and twitter through the entire thing, and it seems like he's dealt with the reaction as well as one can hope - he's apologized, admits that he's embarrassed and ashamed to be the one who wrote the episode, didn't seem to try to pass the guilt on to anyone else but explained the process of writing for a TV show (and making sure that everyone understood that the actors involved shouldn't be blamed), used his social media presence to reblog fans reactions (both good and bad), encouraged people to donate to the trevor project, directed people towards glbt suicide hotlines, and just in general, seemed to listen to people's concerns.

I think it was a learning experience for him - but people fuck up, and there's something to be said about how people deal with those fuckups when they happen.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:53 PM on March 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I mean, if you're still not okay with it and angry that it's in his hands, that's fine and understandable, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on this one.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:57 PM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Well that simplifies things significantly.

But, will it have the same lulz factor? I wonder. Part of the fun of the later seasons was the homoerotic hamming it up for the fangirlz.
posted by habeebtc at 8:37 PM on March 14, 2016


I've never watched The 100, but I've been following the aftermath of the killing of Lexa since it spilled into the tumblrs I do bookmark, and the writer of the article of this FPP really sets my teeth on edge with his belittling of all that anguish and rage as "a minor kerfuffle." What an asshat.

It sucks that we're not going to get to see Lawless & O'Connor play their parts again. I did read somewhere Lawless saying that she didn't actually want to commit to a new Xena series, as being the lead in a one-hour action show was such a grueling schedule. Maybe she was just putting a positive spin on not being offered the show, but, I take some solace in the idea that she was telling the truth.

I have a certain amount of faith in Javi Grillo-Marxuach getting Xena right, based on what he's been doing on his Tumblr, and influenced by how much I loved The Middleman. I'm leery of this getting to series at NBC though, seems like it would have a much better shot at recapturing some of the original spirit on USA Network or something, NBC seems like the stodgiest of the original broadcast networks at this point, I can't imagine them letting Javi & Tapert go as goofball as they're capable of going.
posted by oh yeah! at 9:25 PM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I, for one, welcome the inevitable heterosexual subtext for once.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 10:17 PM on March 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


As long as they follow the shrinking Gabrielle's top canon, I'm in.

(Who am I kidding, I'm totally in.)
posted by blurker at 3:45 AM on March 15, 2016


Not just a lesbian lead, lesbian titular character, AND she can't be killed off!

Gabrielle, on the other hand...
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 3:57 AM on March 15, 2016


Dying on Xena is not generally a permanent event.

I'm not sure if I'm ready for a Xena reboot, but I'm willing to at least give it a go. I loved the original as a tween but it's pretty hard to watch now because the writing is so...uneven seems like the best word. I hope they have plans to keep all the supporting cast in the show, too.
posted by chaiminda at 4:43 AM on March 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Ronda Rousey to the white courtesy phone...Ronda. Rousey.
posted by exparrot at 5:12 AM on March 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


I loved Xena.

Best Xena memories. One summer my late Great Aunt, age 86 stayed at her cottage on the lake. It was about 10 minutes from where I was staying. She was a very proper, well mannered lady type. She was alone during the week. The cottage got two channels. Xena was on Wednesdays. I had dinner with her one night and we decided to watch TV. Oh hey Auntie, Xena is on. I explained Xena.

"I have never seen anything like this," she said after it was over.

Next week I get a call. "Hello Jalli, would you like to come over for dinner tomorrow and watch that lady with the sword again?"

Every week I got a phone call an invite to watch that 'lady with the sword".

Thank you Xena
posted by Jalliah at 5:26 AM on March 15, 2016 [52 favorites]


AND she can't be killed off!

Who wants to tell ffff how the series ended?

I always had the impression that both Gabrielle and Xena were "whatevs" regarding the gender of potential lovers.

Definitely. Callisto murdering (fridging, even) Gabrielle's boyfriend was a major plot driver on the show.
posted by brianrobot at 6:24 AM on March 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


I liked that Xena was very much a Bring Your Own Subtext show. Other than m/m pairings (that's what Herc was for) there was a ship for everyone.
posted by chaiminda at 7:52 AM on March 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I discovered Xena with a group of friends who got together on Sunday night to get high and watch Star Trek, both TNG and ToS back to back. They were both scheduled late, and afterward at around midnight they used to show something like reruns of Dynasty, until Xena came along. The main reason we started watching Xena and Hercules until 2am (after two hours of Star Trek) was because of Sam Raimi. But Lucy Lawless was just so awesome... I'm glad I discovered these shows in my 20s, because we all liked it for the camp and melodrama, and the uneven writing was not a big deal. It didn't really lose anything for me since then, but I might have felt differently if I discovered it at a younger age.

Hope the reboot is worthy of the name. It's good to make the subtext the text now, because I feel like it's just silly to dance around the subject anymore. I mean it was fun to see how it played out in the original series, but it's no longer necessary to hide a lesbian (or bi) relationship / orientation between the lines on television. It shouldn't be.
posted by krinklyfig at 8:08 PM on March 15, 2016


I just realised I want desperately for the pilot or first season to have some scenes where the new Xena and Gabriella wander into an inn and there's a familiar laugh, and someone says, oh that's the head of the library of Alexandria, she's picking up scrolls and stories for the collection when she's not on another adventure with her wife, and the camera pans round to Lawless in brown leather riding gear, all relaxed and happy while O'Connor argues at knifepoint over a pile of scrolls with some wizened scholar.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 5:57 PM on March 16, 2016 [8 favorites]


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