From Arachnophobia to Argo, Goodman is our greatest supporting actor

March 19, 2016 7:53 PM

FiveThirtyEight Chief Culture Writer Walt Hickey runs the numbers and determines that John Goodman is America's greatest supporting actor.

Goodman's starring roles (such as King Ralph and The Flintstones) score a sad below 50 percent "Fresh" rating on Rotten Tomatoes (perhaps why he hasn't had a lead role since 2003), but that average spikes up well over 70 percent when you look at films where he's second-billed (Barton Fink, The Big Lebowski, The Emperor's New Groove), and stays just under 70 percent when he's third-billed (including consecutive Best Pictures The Artist and Argo).

Despite this, John Goodman has never been nominated for an Academy Award.

posted by Etrigan (87 comments total)

I could have told you this without crunching any numbers at all.

Also:

I'll show you the life of the mind! I'll show you the life of the mind! I will show you the life of the mind!
posted by beerperson at 7:56 PM on March 19, 2016 [50 favorites]

Anything John Goodman is in is made better by his idiosyncratic presence and sometimes he's the only, or best, reason to watch. I'm thinking of Flight, his ongoing bad guy role in Damages, and he certainly cheered me up no end during the dreary Inside Llewyn Davis. Gerald McRaney is another supporting actor of an entirely different style who owns everything he's in. Okay, now I'll read the link.
posted by kemrocken at 8:18 PM on March 19, 2016 [10 favorites]

Am I wrong?
posted by wabbittwax at 8:22 PM on March 19, 2016 [11 favorites]

Mostly thanks to the Coen brothers, right?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:25 PM on March 19, 2016 [1 favorite]

I think you would be hard-pressed to find a John Goodman role that is not pure gold.

If you say Fred Flintstone you are entering a world of pain.
posted by wabbittwax at 8:25 PM on March 19, 2016 [11 favorites]

The problem with The Flintstones is in its pacing and terrible script, not with any of the performances of any of the actors. They were all spot-on. Pacing and script. Boo!
posted by hippybear at 8:29 PM on March 19, 2016 [4 favorites]

The best parts of Argo were Goodman and Arkin. I could have just watched them bullshit for two hours.
posted by octothorpe at 8:32 PM on March 19, 2016 [9 favorites]

Also, John Goodman is fucking sexy as all get out.
posted by latkes at 8:37 PM on March 19, 2016 [18 favorites]

This isn't 'Nam. We have rules here.
posted by armoir from antproof case at 8:39 PM on March 19, 2016 [16 favorites]

See, I misread the name as John Hodgman and was eager to see how the math supported this conclusion.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:40 PM on March 19, 2016 [8 favorites]

His turn as the stand-in president in West Wing, with the little widding dog, was superb
posted by runincircles at 8:41 PM on March 19, 2016 [19 favorites]

John Goodman on Hume Cronyn's back could outrun this guy!
posted by a lungful of dragon at 8:42 PM on March 19, 2016 [2 favorites]

AM I THE ONLY ONE AROUND HERE WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT SUPPORTING ACTORS?
posted by eriko at 8:50 PM on March 19, 2016 [33 favorites]

I remember reading years ago when Coyote Ugly was still pre-release, that test audiences for this movie about hot young women dancing sexy-like on bars mostly demanded more John Goodman, and that more scenes for him were written and shot and edited in as a result.

This number-crunching surprises me not at all.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:28 PM on March 19, 2016 [22 favorites]

Fuck it Dude, let's go bowling.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:57 PM on March 19, 2016 [3 favorites]

Tear out bad wood. Put in good wood.
posted by soundguy99 at 9:59 PM on March 19, 2016 [3 favorites]

He is magnificent as Fred Flintstone and I will fight anybody who disagrees

That he has never been nominated for an Oscar is an outrage as well

Also he is fantastic in O Brother Where Art Thou
posted by Hermione Granger at 10:06 PM on March 19, 2016 [3 favorites]

John Goodman is calm about this article. Calmer than you.
posted by grumpybear69 at 10:06 PM on March 19, 2016 [3 favorites]

John Goodman is calm about this article. Calmer than you.

SHOMER SHABBOS!
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:07 PM on March 19, 2016 [7 favorites]

I always figured, "John Goodman", sure, his grandfather was named "Gutman", maybe he changed it to get work. And the scene in The Big Lebowski where Walter says that he's Shomer Shabbes clinched it. I've heard a lot of actors with Hebrew/Yiddish lines: you can always tell the ones who don't get it naturally; even if their pronunciation is OK, their pacing is a little off. And a bit before this bit he even says "etz khayyim hee" with a decent accent on the khet and the tzade and everything.

Anyway, so about ten years ago I had dinner with his accountant (? some financial guy) and for some reason the topic came up. Nope, he said, not Jewish. You could have knocked me over with a feather. But the name, I said. The accent. The ... I don't know, everything. Yup, he said. He's good, isn't he.

Yes. Yes he is.
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:12 PM on March 19, 2016 [42 favorites]

Now more than ever we need FiveThirtyEight to crunch the data and tell us we can stop breathing into a paper bag because a Trump presidency is never gonna happen, and they're spending their time telling us hey, didja notice John Goodman is in a lot of movies??

COME ON
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:17 PM on March 19, 2016 [17 favorites]

Fiddlesticks, Harry Dean Stanton is a better supporting actor.
posted by Confess, Fletch at 10:25 PM on March 19, 2016 [2 favorites]

I was going to propose Stephen Root, but upon further reflection he often doesn't get the quality of roles that Goodman gets. So I'll retract my objection, though I think Stephen Root would make a fine Goodman substitute if we run short.
posted by Nerd of the North at 10:35 PM on March 19, 2016 [7 favorites]

It's a small part, but he's a charmer in C.H.U.D.
posted by teponaztli at 10:38 PM on March 19, 2016 [3 favorites]

Harry Dean Stanton is a better supporting actor.

I once took a class on the films of Sam Peckinpah and Monte Hellman, and a friend pointed out that I was basically taking a class on Harry Dean Stanton's face.
posted by teponaztli at 10:41 PM on March 19, 2016 [14 favorites]

John Goodman is pure St. Louis (and Belleville, Illinois). I would have never ever taken him for being Jewish. His accent on Roseanne is the accent of literally everyone that lives around me. I've seen him in bars here before. That's the real John Goodman.
posted by readyfreddy at 10:42 PM on March 19, 2016 [10 favorites]

John Goodman transcends tribalism. Not St. Louis. Not Jewish. He's John Everyman.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:52 PM on March 19, 2016 [11 favorites]

This past Christmas, we rewatched Home Alone, and while much of that movie felt dated and trite, Hodgman's role was a highlight.
posted by salvia at 12:58 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]

AM I THE ONLY ONE AROUND HERE WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT SUPPORTING ACTORS?

You are not. I became a lover of movies in the 70s, when one of the Detroit TV stations ran a show called Bill Kennedy At the Movies every afternoon at 4:00. Lots of old movies, with commentary from this cool old guy. By the time I was in high school and watching tons of movies on cable at friends' houses (we lived too far out in the boondocks to get it), I'd already decided that, if I were going to be actor, I'd want to be a character actor. They seemed to me to often get more varied and interesting roles than movie stars, and to have longer careers.

Edward Herrmann was one of my favorite actors by the time I was 20. When Lost Boys came out, I was like, "yeah, OK, hot young guy vampires, whatever. But don't you love Edward Herrmann?"

I have always loved John Goodman as well.
posted by not that girl at 1:01 AM on March 20, 2016 [5 favorites]

This past Christmas, we rewatched Home Alone, and while much of that movie felt dated and trite, Hodgman's role was a highlight.

Surely you mean John Candy?
posted by lumensimus at 2:02 AM on March 20, 2016 [3 favorites]

Fred Flintstone is such a quintessential De Niro role you can't really blame John Goodman. He would have been a great Barney if they'd been able to make him half the size. Maybe a third.
posted by Segundus at 3:38 AM on March 20, 2016

If you haven't seen 10 Cloverfield Ln yet, you should probably see it. Goodman is also amazing when he's the lead.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:49 AM on March 20, 2016

Surely you mean John Candy?

Oops. Yes, yes I do.
posted by salvia at 4:13 AM on March 20, 2016

I'd already decided that, if I were going to be actor, I'd want to be a character actor. They seemed to me to often get more varied and interesting roles than movie stars, and to have longer careers.

I think the downside of being a character actor is that you end up taking way more roles just to pay the bills. I mean, every actor does that, but you don't get as much money with each role as a character actor, and I think you end up doing a lot more. I can think of at least one a character actor who has said she refuses to watch most of the stuff she's ever been in because it's such crap.

On the other hand I went to school with the son of a pretty well-known character actor, and he said his dad has fun in everything he's in, no matter how crappy it is, so I guess it just depends on the person. Personally, I'd love to be a character actor. I'm not gorgeous enough to be in a leading role, and I'd get to say lines like "I don't care, just bring me the money!"
posted by teponaztli at 4:13 AM on March 20, 2016 [4 favorites]

Frankly, just about everyone on Roseanne was a killer actor. I don't know if they just got lucky or Roseanne went out of her way to surround herself with people who could carry everything (I suspect the latter). The last season didn't just fall apart because the now-we're-rich conceit was off the mark. The loss of Goodman was palpable.
posted by Mchelly at 5:03 AM on March 20, 2016 [19 favorites]

My father-in-law's name is Roland Turner. I keep waiting to find out that either the Coens or Goodman has ties to Fairleigh Dickinson College (where he worked for many years).

As you were.
posted by pxe2000 at 5:11 AM on March 20, 2016

Don't forget his deliciously weird turn on Community.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 6:17 AM on March 20, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'd already decided that, if I were going to be actor, I'd want to be a character actor. They seemed to me to often get more varied and interesting roles than movie stars, and to have longer careers.

There are other benefits as well.
posted by Navelgazer at 6:19 AM on March 20, 2016 [2 favorites]

And of course there's the cathartic Lebowski-Trump mashup...

I didn't like Treme very much, but Goodman was good in that as well.
posted by TwoStride at 6:54 AM on March 20, 2016

I'd like to propose that the most unjustly ignored character actor is M. Emmet Walsh, who set the template for the screaming big men of the Coen brothers and whose film resume is pretty mind blowing.

Not that he's in a competition with Goodman. I love Goodman, but, holy shit, Walsh. Amazing resume.
posted by maxsparber at 7:17 AM on March 20, 2016 [4 favorites]

five fresh fish: "John Goodman transcends tribalism. Not St. Louis. Not Jewish. He's John Everyman."

I heard he changed it from Everyman to Goodman so he could get more work.
posted by Splunge at 7:44 AM on March 20, 2016

Also, John Goodman is fucking sexy as all get out.

On behalf of all of us gentlemen who maintain a very consistent panda bear shape, I thank you for the kind words for Mr. Goodman.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:10 AM on March 20, 2016 [13 favorites]

Just want to give a shout-out to True Stories, one of Goodman's very first films. Directed by David Byrne, with Spalding Gray, Swoosie Kurtz, it's just a lovely film and full of Texas and its Celebration of Special-ness. I think it's the first film where Goodman had a major role and he is just fantastic. Even then playing the sweet awkward large guy, you can't help but love him.

(On preview, I see what you did there DirtyOldTown.)
posted by Nelson at 8:11 AM on March 20, 2016 [10 favorites]

Seems to me that Roger Ebert once wrote that no movie that had either Harry Dean Stanton or M. Emmet Walsh in a supporting role was all bad.

Of course, he may have written that before the late night nineties/aughts era, when Stanton and Walsh found themselves supporting, respectively, Steven Seagal and Rob Schneider.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:12 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]

There was a period of time when JT Walsh would have given Goodman a run for his money, but alas, we lost him too soon.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:14 AM on March 20, 2016 [5 favorites]

My father-in-law's name is Roland Turner. I keep waiting to find out that either the Coens or Goodman has ties to Fairleigh Dickinson College (where he worked for many years).

Joel Coen had a very brief marriage to an academic in 1979, five years before he married Frances McDormand. (It's written out of most official Coen Brothers biographies.) So that may explain a university connection. On the other hand, I think it's more likely that Roland Turner's name is probably an allusion to the jazz saxophonist Rahsaan Roland Kirk. Turner's wardrobe and hairdo are also supposed to be reminiscent of the songwriter Doc Pomus, although Pomus wrote numerous R&B songs (e.g., "Save the Last Dance for Me", "This Magic Moment") and the Turner character is a jazz purist. In their period pieces, the Coens weave their characters into such a deep web of historical and cultural allusions that it almost seems custom-designed to leave traps for any trainspotters.
posted by jonp72 at 8:26 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]

Thank you boys for throwin' in that fricassee. I'm a man of large appetite, and even with lunch under my belt, I was feelin' a mite peckish.
posted by slkinsey at 8:42 AM on March 20, 2016 [7 favorites]

It's the face and that huge booming baritone. The guy should release an album of showtunes.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:52 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]

ricochet biscuit: "Of course, he may have written that before the late night nineties/aughts era, when Stanton and Walsh found themselves supporting, respectively, Steven Seagal and Rob Schneider."

It was still in effect until the late nineties when Wild, Wild West came out which as Ebert pointed out featured Walsh but had zero redeeming qualities. Sadly WWW was directed by Barry Sonnenfeld who started out as the Coen's Cinematographer, directed the two Adam's Family films, MIB, Get Shorty and then nothing even watchable since.
posted by octothorpe at 9:00 AM on March 20, 2016

Gooman has a great bit in the recent movie "Trumbo" where he is a pulp filmmaker who chases a member of the House Of Unamerican Activities out of his office with a bat.
posted by boilermonster at 9:03 AM on March 20, 2016 [6 favorites]

Nothing against Goodman, but this thread doesn't seem complete without at least a mention of John Cazale. Talk about records that will never be broken -- 5 movies, 5 nominations for Best Picture.
posted by raider at 9:09 AM on March 20, 2016 [7 favorites]

If you haven't seen it, you really should go watch the first season of Treme with Goodman as Creighton Bernette. The whole show is criminally underwatched, and it's a testament to the quality of its cast that he's at best the fourth most compelling actor and he still steals the screen every time he's on there.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 9:17 AM on March 20, 2016 [8 favorites]

Something, something, Donny...
posted by y2karl at 9:47 AM on March 20, 2016

I was reading Steve Goodman.

Sorry.

Yay John Goodman. Against all odds he was a true Blues Brother.

Carry on.
posted by mule98J at 10:10 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]

A good man is hard to find, but John Goodman isn't.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:13 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]

FiveThirtyEight "crunched the numbers" whatever that means. How about we subjectively look at the career of Goodman and make a balanced judgement on his career? From all the terrific roles the members of this community mentioned above he has constantly been a excellent actor of the highest caliber. FiveThirtyEight is just reinforcing a commonly held idea because 10 Cloverfield Lane came out recently.
posted by Blowin_In_The_Wind at 10:28 AM on March 20, 2016

Yeah ok he's great in films but my favorite John Goodman will always be goddamn sexy hero Dan Conner.
posted by sallybrown at 10:30 AM on March 20, 2016 [7 favorites]

Technically Cazale is six for six: he appears in archive footage in The Godfather Part III, which was inexplicably nominated for Best Picture.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:45 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]

I've always loved him for his role as Al in Always, the remake of A Guy Named Joe, in the Ward Bond role.
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 10:54 AM on March 20, 2016

he appears in archive footage in The Godfather Part III, which was inexplicably nominated for Best Picture

That's the power of Cazale.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:56 AM on March 20, 2016 [8 favorites]

*dies face down in the mud, fucks stranger in ass, enters world of pain, etc*
posted by jonmc at 12:05 PM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]

Speed Racer has its flaws, but Goodman as Pops Racer isn't one of them.
posted by AbnerRavenwood at 1:22 PM on March 20, 2016 [3 favorites]

The guy should release an album of showtunes.

Well, he kind of has done one song already....(he was part of the original Broadway cast of Big River.)

I've always liked John Goodman's work - I wasn't a huge fan of the show Roseanne, but something about him always caught my attention, and I always liked him in the Coen Brothers' stuff. But then a few years ago my father and I were hanging around and we happened to catch this movie on cable - Fallen, in which Denzel Washington is a cop being plagued by an evil spirit. It is nowhere near as cheesy as that description makes it sound (Dad and I kept looking at each other in wonder saying "hey, this is damn good!") and a big part of that is because of John Goodman, who plays Denzel's partner. That's when I really began to respect him.

I had a yen to see a movie this afternoon, and I chose 10 Cloverfield Lane largely because of this thread. And - people, John Goodman was creepy as fuck. Even when he was twerking to Motown. (You'll see.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:51 PM on March 20, 2016 [3 favorites]

hey have you guys ever heard of a movie called the big lebowski, it is pretty quotable i think you will find
posted by beerperson at 2:59 PM on March 20, 2016 [10 favorites]

Yeah. Well. That's just, like, your opinion, man.
posted by wabbittwax at 4:13 PM on March 20, 2016 [8 favorites]

He was also great as Al Pacino's partner in Sea of Love. He gives good partner.
posted by wabbittwax at 4:15 PM on March 20, 2016

Just want to give a shout-out to True Stories, one of Goodman's very first films.

I have not yet seen the movie, but I do like his performance on People Like Us.
posted by Gary at 4:37 PM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]

One of the strange things about the Talking Heads album "True Stories" is that most of the performances from the film (by performers who were not the Talking Heads) were so much better.

Goodman's version of "People Like Us" was nice. Pops Staple's version of "Papa Legba" is much better than the Heads' album version.. But the standout piece in the movie is the crazy brilliance that the film brings to "Puzzlin' Evidence."
posted by Nerd of the North at 5:20 PM on March 20, 2016 [6 favorites]

There's a really sweet part in True Stories where Goodman is writing People Like Us and sings it on his awkward meeting with Swoosie Kurtz. He doesn't quite have all the lyrics yet, so we get him scat singing meow meow meow meow.

I like sad songs, they make me want to lie on the floor.
Louis the bear, on the floor.
posted by Nelson at 5:51 PM on March 20, 2016 [5 favorites]

Fallen is actually a pretty great movie, and John Goodman's a big part of that. The only complaint I can muster is that the presence of Goodman in the movie makes it hard not to foresee one of the big twists of the ending. Trying to avoid spoilers here -- given the nature of the antagonist, what happens to Goodman's character is more or less inevitable, because having it not happen would be a cataclysmic waste of his talents. (That was pointlessly elliptical, but those who have seen the movie will know what I'm talking about. Those who haven't, really need to see it.)
posted by McCoy Pauley at 6:57 PM on March 20, 2016 [2 favorites]

McCoy, I was trying to figure out how to mention the Mick Jagger impression in particular.

"Tiiiiiiiiiime.....is on my siiiide...."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:54 PM on March 20, 2016

We're saying a lot of things here, but please, no one take away from this that Fallen is a good movie.

Please?
posted by Navelgazer at 9:13 PM on March 20, 2016 [2 favorites]

De gustibus non est disputandum
posted by axiom at 10:33 PM on March 20, 2016

I think he's the most talented America actor working today, but his weight has always limited his opportunities, and now his advancing age will limit them even further.
posted by Beholder at 10:45 PM on March 20, 2016

And he was damn fine as a North Carolina basketball coach turned lazy senator in Alpha House.
posted by JanetLand at 6:01 AM on March 21, 2016 [2 favorites]

We're saying a lot of things here, but please, no one take away from this that Fallen is a good movie.

It is pretty good, and John Goodman is good in it. Deal with it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:35 AM on March 21, 2016 [1 favorite]

Fallen is much better than it should be, but when you get Denzel Washington, John Goodman, Donald Sutherland, James Gandolfini, Embeth Davidtz, and Elias Koteas on a project, that's kinda what you have to expect.
posted by Etrigan at 6:59 AM on March 21, 2016 [2 favorites]

True story*:the Coen Brothers, out looking for inspiration after wandering a bit in the wilds post-Fargo, they went to Europe. They wanted to hang out together, see if they could recoup a bit of the Raising Arizona craziness that made them so beloved, at a time when people just wanted them to make more movies about cops with funny accents and the stamp painters that loved them. They started off in Paris, but it just didn't have the oddness that made them click. They headed to Berlin, thinking something there might inspire them (and in some part, it did), but still, no real spark. Flanders was a failure. Oslo was an ofer. Milan was a mistake. Finally, they postponed Prague on a whim and headed to Bern. Something about the chocolate, the watches, the fondue, they felt it again. They went for a hike in the mountains, and ran into a man who had served in Vietnam, was an observant Jew, and had a love for bowling. They walked with him for miles, listening to his stories, asking him questions, and happily sharing their trail mix. The man, by the name of William Sobstein, bid them a farewell back near their hotel, and the ran inside, and quickly wrote rough outline of The Big Lebowski.

And that, dear reader, is what happens when you meet a stranger in the Alps.

*Some portions of this story may be entirely imaginary.

Fallen was pretty good, though.
posted by Ghidorah at 7:08 AM on March 21, 2016 [5 favorites]

I think he's the most talented America actor working today, but his weight has always limited his opportunities, and now his advancing age will limit them even further.

41 films in the last 10 years, including Oscar-winners The Artist and Argo, as well as 10 televisions shows, we should all have opportunities as limited.
posted by maxsparber at 8:07 AM on March 21, 2016 [3 favorites]

Sure but he's limited in the types of rolls that he'll get cast in. He doesn't get the romantic lead or hero roll very often.
posted by octothorpe at 9:27 AM on March 21, 2016 [1 favorite]

And he was damn fine as a North Carolina basketball coach turned lazy senator in Alpha House.

I love Alpha House SO much and think it is severely underrated - does anyone know if it's ever gotten out of will-there-be-a-third-season-or-not limbo?
posted by naoko at 10:03 AM on March 21, 2016

He doesn't get the romantic lead or hero roll very often.

If you can find it (I'm sorry I cannot), he discusses this in his appearance on Inside the Actor's Studio. Then he launches into a brief moment as Tony in West Side Story singing "Something's Coming."
posted by JanetLand at 1:56 PM on March 21, 2016

It is pretty good, and John Goodman is good in it. Deal with it.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here, just to warn the others.

But seriously, that movie made me literally shake with anger i hated it so much. Sub-Criminal_minds writing and production, probably the worst "twist" ending I've ever seen (and if not the worst, tied or second place with The Forgotten which wasted two hours of my life, lord knows how much time and energy of two of the best actors working today, and ruined a Rolling Stones song forever. There are few if any movies I've hated as passionately as Fallen.
posted by Navelgazer at 6:57 PM on March 21, 2016

Who could forget his searing portrayal of the football coach in Revenge of the Nerds?
posted by Chrysostom at 8:11 AM on March 22, 2016

I love Alpha House SO much and think it is severely underrated - does anyone know if it's ever gotten out of will-there-be-a-third-season-or-not limbo?

It's been two years. I've given up on it.

Of course, I gave up on a new NetHack like two years ago too.
posted by Etrigan at 8:15 AM on March 22, 2016

Who could forget his searing portrayal of the football coach in Revenge of the Nerds?

A year earlier he was playing guy enjoying an Egg McMuffin. Nerd hating coach is not a bad step up.
posted by Gary at 10:32 AM on March 22, 2016

Youtube's recommended video after the Egg McMuffin is a Funny or Die video featuring John Goodman as Colonel Sanders who loves the gays. Perhaps not the greatest script he's ever gotten, but it's still John Goodman.
posted by Nelson at 10:40 AM on March 22, 2016