Our long matza nightmare is over
April 14, 2016 2:46 PM   Subscribe

Are you a Conservative Ashkenazi Jew dreading Passover next week, not because you miss bread but because you miss legumes and rice? Good news! Kitniyot are now kosher for Passover.

Curious about the history of kitniyot, and why quinoa is okay but not lentils, almond flour but not rice flour? Many answers are found in the decision itself.

Ha'aretz offers a kitniyot-heavy seder menu.

Conservative Israeli Ashkenazi Jews and Reform Ashkenazi Jews already were allowed to act like Sephardic Jews.
posted by jeather (44 comments total) 18 users marked this as a favorite
 
This is a long time coming - most of the Ashkenazi Conservatives I know under the age of fifty or so have been eating kitniyot, quietly or not quietly, for years. The last of my friends who doesn't started last year, when the rabbi of his very conservadox shul announced that after a lot of study and discussion with other rabbis, he would start doing so.

I didn't expect to see this happen so fast, but I definitely figured it would come within the next decade or so.
posted by Itaxpica at 2:50 PM on April 14, 2016


I'm Reform, so I eat all the beans I want, but I welcome this knock on the Manischewitz-Industrial Complex.
posted by thetortoise at 3:06 PM on April 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


I got into this issue with our rabbi big time when my wife was taking her conversion classes. For me it was a perfect example of senseless regulation that existed for no reason that anyone could justify, not rooted in the scripture, designed only to inconvenience. I never thought I'd see this stupid rule get overturned, but meanwhile the Hasidim grow ever-more restrictive with each passing day; I imagine for them this will be yet another example of how lost the rest of us are.
posted by 1adam12 at 3:14 PM on April 14, 2016


Still mulling this over myself. General reaction among my Ashkenazi friends (mostly 20/30 somethings) is split between OH HECK YES RICE AND BEANS and "Oh this is going to feel really weird and I don't know but maybe we'll start with eating kitniyot derivatives this year", with the Sephardi folks going "We told y'all this minhag was dumb and stupid years ago."
posted by damayanti at 3:24 PM on April 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Man, this makes things way easier for vegetarians.
posted by latkes at 3:30 PM on April 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


latkes, some of the stuff I was reading like this article suggested that this has been OK for vegetarians and vegans for a bit now.
posted by damayanti at 3:34 PM on April 14, 2016


This is one of those decisions that makes perfect sense in so many ways. And with the Sephardi majority in Israel making it harder for Ashkenazi Jews there to food shop for kitniyot-free kosher for Passover foods, I really believe this will maybe even change in the Orthodox world within my lifetime and certainly within the next generation's (fingers crossed - sushi with wasabi-maror FTW).
posted by Mchelly at 3:37 PM on April 14, 2016


Man, this makes things way easier for vegetarians.

Our babysitter just went vegan and I literally have no idea what to feed her for protein. Gonna be a lot of almonds in the veggies this year, I know that much.
posted by Mchelly at 3:37 PM on April 14, 2016


I cannot wait until my husband comes home so I can show him this to prove that I was right all along. (We're Reform, and have been in a temple once in the past 16 years, but he's oddly insistent about no kitniyot.) Not that it matters this year because we're doing a Whole30 after seder, but next year with the rice cooker!
posted by Ruki at 3:47 PM on April 14, 2016


This is why I love the mixing and mingling of cultures -

I'm a gentile raised Catholic who clicked on one of the links with the intent "ah, here is something I shall now learn about my fellow man," and the first thing I see is a description of a Persian matzo ball soup with chickpea flour and ground chicken for the dumplings and saffron in the spices, and now all I can think is that HOLY SHIT THAT SOUNDS DELICIOUS GIVE ME THE RECIPE STAT
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:03 PM on April 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


I completely respect the idea that we should keep kosher for Passover if that is what feels right to us. However, it does seem to get a little ridiculous sometimes. According to this article, for example:
Often the objective of following the Passover rules observed by Hasidim is not clear even to them. Sometimes they avoid various kinds of foods, only because in the past their community did so. "In Russia [where Chabad Hasidism began], there were no eggplants," says the man from Chabad, "and therefore at Passover, Chabadniks don't eat eggplant."
posted by Melismata at 4:28 PM on April 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Years ago when my boss was still trying to keep the office chametz-free for Passover and my wife and I were trying to be paleo, she asked me to find out of quinoa was kosher. So I asked him and he sort of sighs deeply and says "I'm ... not sure. It's new, you know, it's new to us and I guess I have to check." And he texted his rabbi. I never got an answer, which is fine bc I don't really like quinoa, but his begrudging resignation of having no idea if it was kosher remains hilarious.
posted by griphus at 4:40 PM on April 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


I'm pretty sure the eggplant thing isn't right. Maybe his family doesn't eat it, but I had some at a dinner with a senior Chabad rabbi who cooked it himself. On the other hand, I've heard of people not eating carrots or fish during Passover, so there's all sorts of different customs out there.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:45 PM on April 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


No gefilte fish on Passover ( and the salmon kind is fabulous)?! Sacrilege!
posted by brujita at 4:54 PM on April 14, 2016


yeah, my vegetarian rabbi has been pro-kitnyot for a long while. Me, I'm a convert, neither Ashkenazi nor Sephardim (and reform to boot), so I can choose my own minhag.

What I can report is that matzah is delicious with hummus, whether crispy or (after it sits in your lunch bag next to hummus for a couple of hours) nicely softened to be pita-like. Also, lazy matzah grilled cheese: cheddar cheese, 45 sec in the microwave, it's all cheesy and softened.
posted by jb at 5:07 PM on April 14, 2016


Are you a Conservative Ashkenazi Jew

YES!

dreading Passover next week,

HELL YES!

not because you miss bread

NO, I MISS THE BREAD! SWEET DELICIOUS BREAD! EIGHT DAYS OF BREADLESS MISERY!

but because you miss legumes and rice?

YEAH, I MISS THEM TOO!

Good news! Kitniyot are now kosher for Passover.

YEAH, RIGHT.
posted by zarq at 5:53 PM on April 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


My mother, of blessed memory, would have been so relieved. Shopping for Passover was a minefield of tsuris. And one of my cousins will now stop wishing she were Sephardic eight days out of the year.
posted by datawrangler at 5:54 PM on April 14, 2016


What I can report is that matzah is delicious with hummus

No. Matzah is not delicious with anything. It's the bread of affliction, not the bread of really-not-bad-if-you-prepare-it-right.
posted by escabeche at 6:07 PM on April 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


I will admit that I feel kind of guilty about how much I like maror, escabeche.
posted by asterix at 6:23 PM on April 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Matza is delicious (a) when fried and (b) when covered in chocolate and toffee. It is not delicious in any other context, and in my experience knowing whether matza is delicious in any other form is a great way to find out if someone was raised Jewish. Maror is just fine,

I didn't know that Reform Jews could eat kitniyot, though it doesn't surprise me -- but my Reform side of the family never did, and I don't know why. I guess tradition. (Bad tradition. I dropped it in high school, and, eventually, dropped keeping kosher for Passover at all.)

The beginnings of the rule sort of make sense, for reasons that are no longer relevant today. Plates of beans (and rice and corn) for all!
posted by jeather at 6:24 PM on April 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Years ago when my boss was still trying to keep the office chametz-free for Passover and my wife and I were trying to be paleo, she asked me to find out of quinoa was kosher. So I asked him and he sort of sighs deeply and says "I'm ... not sure. It's new, you know, it's new to us and I guess I have to check."

I was first introduced to quinoa by a Conservative Jewish friend of mine whose father is a rabbi, so it seems to be acceptable for them.
posted by deanc at 6:37 PM on April 14, 2016


As a Gentile for whom matzo consumption is entirely voluntary, I freaking love it.
posted by Small Dollar at 6:40 PM on April 14, 2016


I actually love hand-baked matzo. It's just so solid and satisfying. It's much better with chopped liver than most breads, and it goes really well with cheese and other umami-rich foods, too.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:53 PM on April 14, 2016


Matzo is delicious in the form if matzo ball soup and dubious in all other iterations
posted by dinty_moore at 7:17 PM on April 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


But will we still be able to get Passover Coke?
posted by in278s at 7:17 PM on April 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Matza is delicious (a) when fried and (b) when covered in chocolate and toffee. It is not delicious in any other context

False: April 2009, Hof Netzanim. After a long day of dancing and general chaos at Boombamela, a major Israeli music festival that falls during pesach, eaten by a fire on a beach with some of my best friends and a spread of canned tuna cooked army-style (which is to say slow-roasted via toilet paper soaked its own oil - way better than it sounds) and a round of rum and cokes, that piece of matza was one of the best things I've ever tasted.
posted by Itaxpica at 7:46 PM on April 14, 2016


Puri tastes like matzah.
posted by brujita at 8:17 PM on April 14, 2016


My Gentile friends frequently tell me how much they like matza ("it's, like, crackers!"), at which point I relate my traumatic tales of having to bring matza sandwiches to school as a child. No PB&J matza sandwich survives being toted around in a lunchbox, so it was more like PB&J-gluing-together-crumbs-of-matza sandwiches. Oi gevalt!
posted by thomas j wise at 3:10 AM on April 15, 2016


My Gentile friends frequently tell me how much they like matza

We're gentiles (well, I mean, actually lots of Jews would say that my wife and daughter are Jews, but for argument's sake let's say that they're not), and we get the free 5 lb. carton of matzo (sometimes two cartons!) from the supermarket every year (Yehuda brand, not the dire Manischewitz cardboard) to eat with peanut butter all year. I just had some for breakfast the other day ... with hagelslag on top because we're multi-culti.

Actually I think we have a box left, need to get on that before we pick up the next carton.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:09 AM on April 15, 2016


Every pesach, my family would buy those massive cartons of matza and then have a ton left over and no way to get rid of it. On the Upper West Side (which is basically the Jerusalem of the East Coast), by two or three days after the holiday even the pigeons would refuse to eat it. It was impossible to get rid of. I feel like there should be some program that gathers leftover matza from Jews at the end of the holiday and distributes it to gentiles who want to eat it with peanut butter the rest of the year... win/win.

Closest thing I've seen was the doorman in my building growing up who would take people's extra unopened matza after the holiday to ship back to his church in Ghana for use as communion wafers, since the original Last Supper communion wafer was matza. Which, in retrospect, was so marvelously New York I can barely wrap my head around it.
posted by Itaxpica at 8:31 AM on April 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


I have so many mixed feelings about this! On the one hand, now Passover is gonna be way easier, and I'm a vegetarian, so it will also be healthier. On the other, it now feels . . . too easy? Like I am suspicious for some reason. Also, I am used to doing it the old way, and this will be a weird transition! Which is probably the mindset that made us do this for 800 years? It just feels like cheating, and I'm a Reform Jew, so there was no reason for me to do it in the first place! Why do I feel so weird about maybe eating some chickpeas?
posted by leesh at 8:53 AM on April 15, 2016


We got several boxes of matzah last year from someone who had overbought. We never have too much.

Maybe it is the lack of childhood trauma; my SO was born Jewish, but his family was totally not observant. So he came to matzah as an adult, and loves it, too. My goyisha mother liked it.
posted by jb at 8:54 AM on April 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


People here who like matza: even PIGEONS have better taste in food than you.
posted by jeather at 8:56 AM on April 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Have none of you people ever had fried matzah?! I grew up on the stuff and it is DELICOUS. My house, Saturday morning, 9:30 am, be there. BYO plate and fork.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:30 AM on April 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


HECK YES RICE AND BEANS
posted by bq at 9:31 AM on April 15, 2016


People who don't like matzo, have you had Yehuda? It really is better. I mean, on the continuum of things you can do with quickly-cooked flour paste. Which I guess is pretty limited. But still. It's better. I wouldn't eat 5 lbs. of Manischewitz or Streit's.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:32 AM on April 15, 2016


Have none of you people ever had fried matzah?!

Matzah brei is delicious but you can really only eat it like three times in a week, tops. Maybe four.
posted by leesh at 11:05 AM on April 15, 2016 [2 favorites]




I was briefly talking about this with my sister, who is still observant, and a Hebrew school teacher who takes pride in creating lessons that gives the students a chance to engage with issues like this. She's quite excited about this. While I'm not observant at all, I do miss Seder, and the community of it, the meal, the songs, the care taken to make the best meal possible, and charoset. Man, I love that stuff.

At least one year, we got the circular matzah put out as a somehow more special form of matzah (possibly some sort of holier than thou Lubavitcher thing?) and it was terrible. Hard, but no crunch, and almost utterly devoid of the air pockets that gives Manischewitz matzah the vague flakiness that makes it bearable.

We found out later they were good for precisely one thing: they made excellent frisbees.
posted by Ghidorah at 5:50 PM on April 15, 2016


While I'm not observant at all, I do miss Seder, and the community of it, the meal, the songs, the care taken to make the best meal possible, and charoset. Man, I love that stuff.

One of the things I'm most thrilled about in my adult life is that I have a group of (mostly but not entirely Jewish) very close friends who all get together for a second Seder every year. We're all in our twenties, so the first Seder belongs to our parents and families, but the second Seder is for us. As a group, we run the gamut from Reconstructionist to modern Orthodox, and we even have a few Gentiles; so we do a classic Seder with a little of ourselves thrown in. It's just a nice opportunity to get together, drink a little (ok, a lot) of wine, eat a nice meal, sing some songs, and just generally shape our customs and traditions in a way that feels true to who we are in this day and age. We've only been doing it for a few years, but I really hope we keep it going for long enough in to the future that I can bring my children someday.
posted by Itaxpica at 6:11 PM on April 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


Ghidorah: the circular matzo is probably the same sort described in Mchelly's fascinating link.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:21 AM on April 16, 2016


I've had schmurah matzah -- I didn't think it was better tasting at all. It tasted burnt.

I've found that my favourite matzah is one of the cheapest locally - Osem brand. My friends bought some highly reviewed more expensive stuff, but I found it bland. Osem has just enough toastiness to have some flavour, but not burnt.
posted by jb at 5:21 AM on April 16, 2016


Matzo is a lot better if you bake it at a very low temperature (100C / 212F is good) for half an hour or so. It gets crisper and de-staled, without browning. That's how I like shmura matzo, anyway, crisp enough to shatter into razor-like darts of carbohydrate.
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:12 AM on April 17, 2016


Matzah brei is delicious but you can really only eat it like three times in a week, tops. Maybe four.

I dunno, I think my record was nine or so.

What's funny is that my palate totally craves it this time of year, but at no other time. If I tried to eat it nine times in September, it wouldn't work.
posted by Melismata at 7:52 AM on April 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


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