Cho. John Cho.
May 6, 2016 2:38 PM Subscribe
John Cho could be your hero, your spy, your boyfriend. Given that a few well-known directors are unfamiliar with any "Asian movie stars", and others are less than thrilled with the notion of casting one in the lead, William Yu has taken on the effort of re-imagining various movies with Korean-American actor John Cho as a lead.
He'd be a great boyfriend, though..
He'd be a great boyfriend, though..
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- frimble
The very existence of this hashtag is depressing. I'm glad that the issue is being tackled in this way. I'm glad that it's generating some discussion and attention. But all too often, that's all it does. No real change on the level where it would make a significant impact to the industry. Here's hoping that Hollywood will eventually start to realize how much untapped potential is out there.
posted by Fizz at 2:47 PM on May 6, 2016
posted by Fizz at 2:47 PM on May 6, 2016
JOHN CHO CAN'T BE YOUR BOYFRIEND. HE'S MY BOYFRIEND.
But seriously, this is awesome.
posted by sunset in snow country at 2:51 PM on May 6, 2016 [8 favorites]
But seriously, this is awesome.
posted by sunset in snow country at 2:51 PM on May 6, 2016 [8 favorites]
As always, The Toast's got you covered: If John Cho Were Your Boyfriend oh nooo i should have read the "read more" more carefully
posted by btfreek at 2:54 PM on May 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by btfreek at 2:54 PM on May 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
If Cho's schedule gets too packed, Daniel Dae Kim could also pick up some of these roles...
posted by Navelgazer at 2:56 PM on May 6, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 2:56 PM on May 6, 2016 [16 favorites]
oh hey this sounds like my jam
posted by sciatrix at 2:58 PM on May 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by sciatrix at 2:58 PM on May 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
Serious comment* now: The thing about John Cho, as much as I adore him (DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I ADORE HIM? DO YOU???), is that he's basically the go-to guy for stuff like this. I remember wading into internet arguments about Asian men and media invisibility like, eight years ago (geez, have I been fighting with people on the internet for that long?), and at some point in every single comment thread, a bunch of white women would get into a side discussion about how hot John Cho is. As they should! Because the man is a smoking hot furnace! But it was kind of depressingly predictable that, when wanting to show their support, he was the only hot Asian movie star anyone could ever think of. At some point I feel like Daniel Dae Kim usurped his place in these discussions, but it was usually only ever one at once. So I would love to live in this world because for one thing, it would mean that there were a LOT more John Chos.
On a lighter note, I read an interview with him and Kal Penn years ago where they said that in real life they were basically the opposite of their Harold and Kumar roles, and John Cho was always trying to get Kal Penn into some shit. Then I saw this and I've basically assumed that that was John Cho's real-life personality ever since. "BOBBY! I'M MISSING PILATES FOR THIS!"
*I tried
posted by sunset in snow country at 3:08 PM on May 6, 2016 [15 favorites]
On a lighter note, I read an interview with him and Kal Penn years ago where they said that in real life they were basically the opposite of their Harold and Kumar roles, and John Cho was always trying to get Kal Penn into some shit. Then I saw this and I've basically assumed that that was John Cho's real-life personality ever since. "BOBBY! I'M MISSING PILATES FOR THIS!"
*I tried
posted by sunset in snow country at 3:08 PM on May 6, 2016 [15 favorites]
If John Cho were your boyfriend, you’d always get the books you wanted at the Friends of the Library book sale, because unlike you John Cho is an early riser and he would have already been on the way to his morning nosh. “John Cho asked us to set these books aside for you,” a Friend of the Library would tell you, all aflutter. “He signed autographs for all the volunteers! He’s such a nice young man.”
*strokes chin thoughtfully*
posted by Halloween Jack at 3:10 PM on May 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
*strokes chin thoughtfully*
posted by Halloween Jack at 3:10 PM on May 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yesssssss, John Cho as Captain America! Can you imagine Captain America's WWII-era origin story retold with Captain America as an Asian-American soldier? Holy smokes that would be amazing.
posted by BlueJae at 3:10 PM on May 6, 2016 [28 favorites]
posted by BlueJae at 3:10 PM on May 6, 2016 [28 favorites]
I'm just bemused by this, because there are literally dozens of really hot Korean actors. I'm not sure why they chose the guy typecast as the nerd rather than the hunky hearthrobs.
posted by corb at 3:11 PM on May 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 3:11 PM on May 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
#justiceforselfie
posted by imnotasquirrel at 3:12 PM on May 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by imnotasquirrel at 3:12 PM on May 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yesssssss, John Cho as Captain America! Can you imagine Captain America's WWII-era origin story retold with Captain America as an Asian-American soldier? Holy smokes that would be amazing.
TAKE MY MONEY>?!
posted by Fizz at 3:13 PM on May 6, 2016 [9 favorites]
TAKE MY MONEY>?!
posted by Fizz at 3:13 PM on May 6, 2016 [9 favorites]
I'm just bemused by this, because there are literally dozens of really hot Korean actors. I'm not sure why they chose the guy typecast as the nerd rather than the hunky heartthrobs.
He's the one Asian actor they could think of, which I guess is the point.
posted by sideshow at 3:14 PM on May 6, 2016
He's the one Asian actor they could think of, which I guess is the point.
posted by sideshow at 3:14 PM on May 6, 2016
Well, for YOUR viewing pleasure, try some alternate options. ;)
posted by corb at 3:15 PM on May 6, 2016
posted by corb at 3:15 PM on May 6, 2016
corb, I think his Americanness is important here. I'm not sure there are any Asian American actors who have managed to avoid being typecast as the nerd (except Daniel Dae Kim maybe? Not actually familiar with his work), which is kind of the point.
oh man that gif of him with the whiskey in that one article oh man. I need to get back to work and stop this shit
posted by sunset in snow country at 3:17 PM on May 6, 2016 [9 favorites]
oh man that gif of him with the whiskey in that one article oh man. I need to get back to work and stop this shit
posted by sunset in snow country at 3:17 PM on May 6, 2016 [9 favorites]
Oh yeah, I get what you're saying. It was just weird - I watch a lot of Korean films, so I was like "so much more yum", but you make a fair point about how in America, the idea of smoking hot Asian actors doesn't seem to show up much.
posted by corb at 3:18 PM on May 6, 2016
posted by corb at 3:18 PM on May 6, 2016
I'm not sure there are any Asian American actors who have managed to avoid being typecast as the nerd
Sung Kang! Han was the coolest.
posted by imnotasquirrel at 3:19 PM on May 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
Sung Kang! Han was the coolest.
posted by imnotasquirrel at 3:19 PM on May 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm not sure there are any Asian American actors who have managed to avoid being typecast as the nerd
Steven Yeun, I think. But yeah, it's been extremely rare. Hopefully starting to change.
posted by thefoxgod at 3:21 PM on May 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
Steven Yeun, I think. But yeah, it's been extremely rare. Hopefully starting to change.
posted by thefoxgod at 3:21 PM on May 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
I was SO EXCITED when he was cast as sexy civically minded lawyer on New Girl earlier this season and was hoping we'd get a run of episodes with him as Zooey's love interest. But no, he was only in the one episode and she's back to dating season one's white guy instead. Why can't we have nice things.
posted by phunniemee at 3:23 PM on May 6, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 3:23 PM on May 6, 2016 [7 favorites]
His agent must be so happy right now, this can only lead to good things for John Cho as it gets noticed
posted by Hoopo at 3:24 PM on May 6, 2016
posted by Hoopo at 3:24 PM on May 6, 2016
I'm not sure there are any Asian American actors who have managed to avoid being typecast as the nerd
There's also Brian Tee, who is often cast as cool hot guy in a suit, but who was also recently cast as cool hot guy who gets eaten by a dinosaur.
posted by phunniemee at 3:27 PM on May 6, 2016 [8 favorites]
There's also Brian Tee, who is often cast as cool hot guy in a suit, but who was also recently cast as cool hot guy who gets eaten by a dinosaur.
posted by phunniemee at 3:27 PM on May 6, 2016 [8 favorites]
I'm not sure there are any Asian American actors who have managed to avoid being typecast as the nerd
Dante Basco (who played Rufio in Hook), Dave Bautista, and Lou Diamond Phillips are Filipino and tend not to be cast as nerds.
posted by AceRock at 3:34 PM on May 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
Dante Basco (who played Rufio in Hook), Dave Bautista, and Lou Diamond Phillips are Filipino and tend not to be cast as nerds.
posted by AceRock at 3:34 PM on May 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
Holy shit do I ever love this. This is so great!
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:39 PM on May 6, 2016
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:39 PM on May 6, 2016
i love john cho but osric chau is my forever boyfrand
posted by poffin boffin at 3:41 PM on May 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 3:41 PM on May 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
You are all right and I stand corrected. I suppose to put it more carefully, it's been very difficult until very recently for an Asian American man to achieve star status (as John Cho has, and Steven Yeun I think now has) without being typecast as a nerd at some point - I haven't heard of some of these folks and I think Sung Kang (along with the other Asian actors who tend to work with director Justin Lin) has purposefully been more choosy about his roles.
posted by sunset in snow country at 3:43 PM on May 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by sunset in snow country at 3:43 PM on May 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
I propose also Daniel Henney, who was born and raised in Michigan, and for some reason is not yet a huge name. It is a great injustice.
posted by specialagentwebb at 3:46 PM on May 6, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by specialagentwebb at 3:46 PM on May 6, 2016 [9 favorites]
Me before opening this thread: I outwardly hope there's lots of good discussion but I inwardly hope this thread also becomes a list of hot Asian actors.
Me now: I am worried about my newfound wishing powers but I promise to use them for good.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 4:10 PM on May 6, 2016 [32 favorites]
Me now: I am worried about my newfound wishing powers but I promise to use them for good.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 4:10 PM on May 6, 2016 [32 favorites]
I'm just bemused by this, because there are literally dozens of really hot Korean actors. I'm not sure why they chose the guy typecast as the nerd rather than the hunky heartthrobs.
because they are all hunky heartthrobs typecast as nerds
that's...kind of the point.
posted by Krom Tatman at 4:27 PM on May 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
because they are all hunky heartthrobs typecast as nerds
that's...kind of the point.
posted by Krom Tatman at 4:27 PM on May 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
What about Keanu Reeves? My sons look like Keanu Reeves :)
posted by My Dad at 4:49 PM on May 6, 2016
posted by My Dad at 4:49 PM on May 6, 2016
I think using John Cho is perfect for something like this, because honestly, why can't you use him in any of those roles? Well, yes, there's really no good justification not to use any Asian or Asian-American actor, but even the bullshittiest justifications fall when it comes to Cho. He's recognizable and done well in high profile and high profit Hollywood movie roles. A good actor with a good track record in good movies with good box office - there's just no weakness there.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 4:51 PM on May 6, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by GhostintheMachine at 4:51 PM on May 6, 2016 [9 favorites]
I was watching a video of auditions for The Office and the five seconds of John Cho opened my eyes to a beautiful alternate reality where I liked Jim.
Also I am now moving over to South Asian but can we please put Gerrard Lobo in everything because he has a small part on Master of None but as soon as he showed up on screen I literally gasped and then paused the movie because wow. Who knew humans could look like that? (also: shirtless) (also: he's probably decent at acting too?)
posted by Anonymous at 4:59 PM on May 6, 2016
Also I am now moving over to South Asian but can we please put Gerrard Lobo in everything because he has a small part on Master of None but as soon as he showed up on screen I literally gasped and then paused the movie because wow. Who knew humans could look like that? (also: shirtless) (also: he's probably decent at acting too?)
posted by Anonymous at 4:59 PM on May 6, 2016
Dave Bautista... [is] Filipino and tend[s] not to be cast as nerds.
Yeah, well.
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:03 PM on May 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, well.
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:03 PM on May 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
I remember that. Randall Park, another unused talent! Also would have been a better Jim. But I don't so much want "Asian Jim" as I want "John Cho Jim".
(though I think John Cho still did Jim better).
posted by Anonymous at 5:05 PM on May 6, 2016
(though I think John Cho still did Jim better).
posted by Anonymous at 5:05 PM on May 6, 2016
also if you didn't watch the Netflix Marco Polo because you correctly figured that it was terrible, you may have missed out on Remy Hii.
in a better world, that show would've been cancelled when Netflix got that Marvel contract so he could play Danny Rand
posted by Krom Tatman at 5:15 PM on May 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
in a better world, that show would've been cancelled when Netflix got that Marvel contract so he could play Danny Rand
posted by Krom Tatman at 5:15 PM on May 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
I remember being deeeeeeply in love with a guy on Young & the Restless in the early 90s.. wikipedia tells me it was Philip Moon who is still.. delightful. But hasn't worked much..
posted by ApathyGirl at 5:28 PM on May 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ApathyGirl at 5:28 PM on May 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
Gonna be really honest here and say that some of the conversation here is scraping on the edge of reaaaaally uncomfortable for me. I appreciate that debunking the way Asian men are portrayed in North American media is vital and something that really helps me - but why does it always have to come accompanied with a rattling off of all of the Asian men that people find hot? Testimonies of all of the attributes that people find appealing in Asian men, half of which end up being stereotypes like us being nerdy? With shirtless photos being passed around the whole time?
I say this because I literally have a gallery of screenshots I keep around on my phone of men sending me messages that make it abundantly clear how hot they find Asian men. See, I even have a suite of responses prepared in advance. My favorite one is "'He thinks my best quality is that I'm interchangeable with 2 billion other people on this planet. I must have him!' - said no Asian dude ever, least of all me." The usual response I get to that is that they instantly block me, having realized that I don't live up to their submissive Asian boy fantasy. I also recently realized that I'm being catcalled like half the time I walk by the gay village on my way to school, because one of the regular dudes finally got right up into my deaf face and said it in a way that I could not mistake it. Boy, that hit me like a brick, because I had no idea that for the past 7 months, all of the men yelling at me were commenting on my sexual attractiveness. That was a really fun thing to realize.
It impacts my dating life too. Like, for instance, people just seem to assume that thanks to what they assume about my culture, I would be the best dad ever! Guess what? I don't want kids. They gross me out. Sorry, not sorry. And I've previously written on this site about how I had to stop wearing glasses because of the nerdy stereotype. Like, I don't care how much of a turn-on people find it. News flash: I don't exist to fulfill your Asian nerd fantasies.
The point I'm getting at here is, the answer to "Asian men lack representation in North American media, especially as normal sexual beings" is not to swing to the other end of the pole and objectify us. I don't think it's helping as much as you think it is.
posted by Conspire at 5:59 PM on May 6, 2016 [27 favorites]
I say this because I literally have a gallery of screenshots I keep around on my phone of men sending me messages that make it abundantly clear how hot they find Asian men. See, I even have a suite of responses prepared in advance. My favorite one is "'He thinks my best quality is that I'm interchangeable with 2 billion other people on this planet. I must have him!' - said no Asian dude ever, least of all me." The usual response I get to that is that they instantly block me, having realized that I don't live up to their submissive Asian boy fantasy. I also recently realized that I'm being catcalled like half the time I walk by the gay village on my way to school, because one of the regular dudes finally got right up into my deaf face and said it in a way that I could not mistake it. Boy, that hit me like a brick, because I had no idea that for the past 7 months, all of the men yelling at me were commenting on my sexual attractiveness. That was a really fun thing to realize.
It impacts my dating life too. Like, for instance, people just seem to assume that thanks to what they assume about my culture, I would be the best dad ever! Guess what? I don't want kids. They gross me out. Sorry, not sorry. And I've previously written on this site about how I had to stop wearing glasses because of the nerdy stereotype. Like, I don't care how much of a turn-on people find it. News flash: I don't exist to fulfill your Asian nerd fantasies.
The point I'm getting at here is, the answer to "Asian men lack representation in North American media, especially as normal sexual beings" is not to swing to the other end of the pole and objectify us. I don't think it's helping as much as you think it is.
posted by Conspire at 5:59 PM on May 6, 2016 [27 favorites]
Conspire, I apologize for the pretty big role I played in establishing that tone right off the bat in this thread. I have mostly tried to follow the lead of Asian men in these conversations in the past since Asian men and Asian women experience a lot of this so differently, and that led to me being tentatively okay with stuff I would consider objectifying if applied to myself, because it seemed like a lot of guys were fine with it or even appreciated it, but I didn't fully consider that the men I was listening to were mostly straight. Which was dumb of me.
posted by sunset in snow country at 6:47 PM on May 6, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by sunset in snow country at 6:47 PM on May 6, 2016 [9 favorites]
My apologies, Conspire! I was not considering how fetishizing those remarks would look, especially in the context of this post.
Well, to contribute something that's not about objectification, there have been a few articles out about the character of Josh Chan in Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, and how he's a sharp deviation from previous portrayals of Asian men. He's explicitly described as a "California bro". I just searched and it looks like maybe none of these made it to Metafilter, so here are a few thinkpieces:
The Show That’s Subtly Changing The Way We See Asian-American Men On TV
I don't really watch the show, but I was extremely heartened to see a Filipino-American guy just playing an Everydude. And also depressed that it's 2016 and such a big deal.
posted by Anonymous at 6:50 PM on May 6, 2016
Well, to contribute something that's not about objectification, there have been a few articles out about the character of Josh Chan in Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, and how he's a sharp deviation from previous portrayals of Asian men. He's explicitly described as a "California bro". I just searched and it looks like maybe none of these made it to Metafilter, so here are a few thinkpieces:
The Show That’s Subtly Changing The Way We See Asian-American Men On TV
Josh, who oozes with masculinity and charm, is introduced as a heartthrob from the very start — he’s a little dim-witted, but a heartthrob nonetheless. Not only is he the highly sought-after love interest of a woman who moves 3,000 miles across the country for him, but he also already has a girlfriend. Born and raised in sunny West Covina, California, he’s the guy from high school who never left home. Perpetually smiling, he has no concept of anxiety — or any sort of negativity, for that matter. A man of action, he hits the gym and plays a slew of sports, genuinely loves his massive Filipino family, and hangs out with his crew of like-minded homies. It’s a role that could’ve easily gone to a non-Asian star, but Crazy Ex-Girlfriend’s co-creators Aline Brosh McKenna and Rachel Bloom intended for Josh to be an Asian man since the conception of the show.In Its First Season, Crazy Ex-Girlfriend’s Greatest Legacy Is (Finally) Bringing the Asian Bro to Television
“I grew up with a lot of Asian bros. That’s a type of person that I grew up with that I’ve never seen anywhere in the media,” Bloom, who also plays Rebecca, told BuzzFeed News in a phone interview.
[...]
In the process of creating this brawny, laid-back guy, however, it wasn’t Bloom’s or McKenna’s conscious intention to break the stereotype of the foreign, innocent Asian man. “We didn’t have an overarching agenda to alter certain depictions,” McKenna said in a phone interview. “It’s just an effort to portray the town and the community the way they actually are.”
“I don’t know if the word is ignorant — I think it’s a cop-out,” says Rodriguez. “It’s so easy to make an Asian person the doctor, the lawyer, the smart kid in school. What’s harder is challenging the norm and hiring Asian actors to play your Average Joe.” Not only is Josh Chan, as Rodriguez says, “an everyman character,” but he’s the rare Asian onscreen who’s been allowed to be non-exceptional in academia, though perhaps exceptional as a human being. Rodriguez tells me that while filming a scene where Josh does calculations on a napkin, he had to ask a few times if he was doing the math too fast.Vincent Rodriguez III: On facing challenges as an Asian American actor and scoring a lead role in CW’s ‘Crazy Ex-Girlfriend’
“There are always extremes that exist with all ethnicities, and it’s nice to be a part of a show that explores these identities, and portrays who we really are: people with a specific background and a place,” he said, regarding comedies [like “Fresh Off the Boat” and “Crazy Ex-Girlfriend”] that put Asian-Americans in starring roles. “We’re showing the world our reality–sometimes, that can be painful and uncomfortable. But it can also be funny.”
I don't really watch the show, but I was extremely heartened to see a Filipino-American guy just playing an Everydude. And also depressed that it's 2016 and such a big deal.
posted by Anonymous at 6:50 PM on May 6, 2016
Sorry, Conspire! The shirtless guy thing was totally me. I think I just got kind of viscerally upset by the "Asian guy=slim stereotype" stuff, and I have a lot of familiarity with hot Korean actors because I lived for a while in Korea and, you know, watched movies. I didn't mean to contribute to any fetishizing of Asian guys /as/ Asian - more just "this is not all there is!" I apologize if you were hurt by that, it was entirely not my intention.
posted by corb at 7:31 PM on May 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 7:31 PM on May 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
All I want, all I beg for with all my heart is John Cho as an Austen hero in a period adaptation. Put that man in a frock coat and have him stare at the horizon while he stammers his deep admiration and violins swell and - if they could have a naval flashback scene where he has to climb the rigging in battle during a storm, all bruised and bloodied, and - excuse me, I must go and swoon.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 7:44 PM on May 6, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 7:44 PM on May 6, 2016 [16 favorites]
The really impressive thing about the original #StarringJohnCho posters is how perfectly he fits into pretty much every one of those hypothetical movies. Like, anybody can look right on a photoshopped poster, but I'm envisioning him in the actual films and it all works. That's some pretty impressive range that I'd like to see actual Hollywood casting directors capitalise on and not just, like, people on the internet.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:04 AM on May 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 7:04 AM on May 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
What's crazy to me about how white movies and TV still are is that there have never been more movies and TV shows than there are right now. There are so many opportunities for studios to cast people of all races, and yet we're still at a point where it's considered a holy grail for Marvel to make a movie with an internationally famous white woman in the lead, and they still haven't committed to it. Of course John Cho should be an action hero! It's not charity; it's common sense. Would movies that would otherwise star 65-year-old white men bomb with him? Even if they did in America (which I don't think they would), would they bomb in Asia, where the US film industry is now making a gigantic share of its profits? As a business decision, just as a business move, whitewashing makes no sense in 2016.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:13 AM on May 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:13 AM on May 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
Conspire, I apologize for the pretty big role I played in establishing that tone right off the bat in this thread. I have mostly tried to follow the lead of Asian men in these conversations in the past since Asian men and Asian women experience a lot of this so differently, and that led to me being tentatively okay with stuff I would consider objectifying if applied to myself, because it seemed like a lot of guys were fine with it or even appreciated it, but I didn't fully consider that the men I was listening to were mostly straight. Which was dumb of me.
I appreciate this. And I have to say that I also get why a lot of Asian men won't shut down objectification as well. It's honestly sometimes a guilty pleasure for me. I feel like when you're constantly exposed to a culture that strips away and denies your sexuality, anything that counters that message feels like an oasis in the desert, regardless of how unhealthy it is.
But there are so many unhealthy intersections of patriarchy and racism that gets buried under when we refuse to challenge it on the principle that it makes us feel good sometimes when we're feeling down. I'm going to honestly say that I don't really give that much of a fuck about what John Cho and Daniel Dae Kim are up to these days. First of all, look - the whole reason why we extrapolate John Cho to a commentary on the sexual attractiveness of all Asian men is because of racism in the first place. You never hear anyone going, "oh, white men are so HUNKY" because of Channing Tatum or Chris Evans or whatnot. Yet, the few Asian men who have made it into media stand as tokens for all Asian men. But they don't even look like most of us anyway! Let's talk about how Hollywood beauty standards intersects with the tokenism of minorities, with the lack of any real Asian male role models, and with the lack of a sexual narrative for Asian men in North America. The consequence is that these beauty standards - and the resultant body image issues - seem to hit us even heavier. I can't tell you how many Asian men I know feel pressured to put on toxic-masculine jock personas and hit the gyms to throw off the stereotype that they're sexless nerds.
See, my second favorite script for the men who send me adoring messages about Asians is: "You like Asians? Which ones? There are young Asians, and old Asians. Some of us are hairy, some of us aren't. Some of us are fat, some of us are thin. I could go on. I'm confused. What's your type, exactly?" Almost inevitably, they'll reveal that the only reason they're hitting on me (poorly) is because I match their internal vision of what an Asian is supposed to look like. Every other Asian man who doesn't conform to these standards is invisible to them.
Second, I don't care about the dramatic, sexed-up roles that John Cho plays because like, 99.9999% of Asian men won't look like him or have his social status. Most of us are just ordinary people, with ordinary lives, looking for ordinary romantic lives. How does having poles of "sexless nerd" and "smoking hot sex god" and nothing in between, help with those of us who are looking for the in-between? I can't tell you how many men I've met who want to sleep with me, but then will want nothing else to do with me, because it shatters their brains to learn that I, too, am a complex human being.
Let's not kid ourselves: when we idolize John Cho, we're not doing a service for all Asian men. We're only idolizing able-bodied men in their 20s who look great shirtless, with chiseled features that match Western beauty standards, all the markings of wealth. That's not all Asian men, that's an infinitely small fraction of them. And even for those of us who can appear to fit into that category superficially enough that we get a constant stream of 50 year-old men expecting us to beg for their company because they are aware of the asexual narratives about Asian men and have twisted that into believing that they deserve our attention since no one else will "see our beauty" - I might be a healthy 23 year-old right now, but I'm acutely aware that it's only a very short matter of time before I age out of that demographic and into invisibility.
posted by Conspire at 8:11 AM on May 7, 2016 [13 favorites]
I appreciate this. And I have to say that I also get why a lot of Asian men won't shut down objectification as well. It's honestly sometimes a guilty pleasure for me. I feel like when you're constantly exposed to a culture that strips away and denies your sexuality, anything that counters that message feels like an oasis in the desert, regardless of how unhealthy it is.
But there are so many unhealthy intersections of patriarchy and racism that gets buried under when we refuse to challenge it on the principle that it makes us feel good sometimes when we're feeling down. I'm going to honestly say that I don't really give that much of a fuck about what John Cho and Daniel Dae Kim are up to these days. First of all, look - the whole reason why we extrapolate John Cho to a commentary on the sexual attractiveness of all Asian men is because of racism in the first place. You never hear anyone going, "oh, white men are so HUNKY" because of Channing Tatum or Chris Evans or whatnot. Yet, the few Asian men who have made it into media stand as tokens for all Asian men. But they don't even look like most of us anyway! Let's talk about how Hollywood beauty standards intersects with the tokenism of minorities, with the lack of any real Asian male role models, and with the lack of a sexual narrative for Asian men in North America. The consequence is that these beauty standards - and the resultant body image issues - seem to hit us even heavier. I can't tell you how many Asian men I know feel pressured to put on toxic-masculine jock personas and hit the gyms to throw off the stereotype that they're sexless nerds.
See, my second favorite script for the men who send me adoring messages about Asians is: "You like Asians? Which ones? There are young Asians, and old Asians. Some of us are hairy, some of us aren't. Some of us are fat, some of us are thin. I could go on. I'm confused. What's your type, exactly?" Almost inevitably, they'll reveal that the only reason they're hitting on me (poorly) is because I match their internal vision of what an Asian is supposed to look like. Every other Asian man who doesn't conform to these standards is invisible to them.
Second, I don't care about the dramatic, sexed-up roles that John Cho plays because like, 99.9999% of Asian men won't look like him or have his social status. Most of us are just ordinary people, with ordinary lives, looking for ordinary romantic lives. How does having poles of "sexless nerd" and "smoking hot sex god" and nothing in between, help with those of us who are looking for the in-between? I can't tell you how many men I've met who want to sleep with me, but then will want nothing else to do with me, because it shatters their brains to learn that I, too, am a complex human being.
Let's not kid ourselves: when we idolize John Cho, we're not doing a service for all Asian men. We're only idolizing able-bodied men in their 20s who look great shirtless, with chiseled features that match Western beauty standards, all the markings of wealth. That's not all Asian men, that's an infinitely small fraction of them. And even for those of us who can appear to fit into that category superficially enough that we get a constant stream of 50 year-old men expecting us to beg for their company because they are aware of the asexual narratives about Asian men and have twisted that into believing that they deserve our attention since no one else will "see our beauty" - I might be a healthy 23 year-old right now, but I'm acutely aware that it's only a very short matter of time before I age out of that demographic and into invisibility.
posted by Conspire at 8:11 AM on May 7, 2016 [13 favorites]
Mod note: Couple of comments deleted; I-Ball, we've talked to you about this before, leave this alone.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:32 AM on May 7, 2016
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:32 AM on May 7, 2016
Most of these are movies that I wouldn't pay $10 to see as-is. But I would be down to the cinema right now plunking my tenner on the counter if John Cho were in them.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:04 AM on May 7, 2016
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:04 AM on May 7, 2016
Thanks for putting into words what I was feeling, Conspire. I don't really know how to take threads like this. Like dinner the other night with new acquaintances. One of the women mentioned that she has dated lots of hot asian guys, which... as an AA man, I literally don't know what to do with this information.
Like are you telling me you're cool (not like all the western women who refuse to date Asian men)? Or are you telling me about a racial fetish of yours? Are you hitting on me? Are you hitting on my race?
There was an article that went around Facebook recently listing 12 reasons why you should date an Asian man and it's like, I... appreciate the sentiment? But it's also like here's a big list of kind of harmful stereotypes that I've heard about myself since the age of 6, so...
BTW, John Cho is 44, which I think puts a fine point on why having A SINGLE guy to choose from to represent ALL Asian American males is pretty messed up.
posted by danny the boy at 11:48 AM on May 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
Like are you telling me you're cool (not like all the western women who refuse to date Asian men)? Or are you telling me about a racial fetish of yours? Are you hitting on me? Are you hitting on my race?
There was an article that went around Facebook recently listing 12 reasons why you should date an Asian man and it's like, I... appreciate the sentiment? But it's also like here's a big list of kind of harmful stereotypes that I've heard about myself since the age of 6, so...
BTW, John Cho is 44, which I think puts a fine point on why having A SINGLE guy to choose from to represent ALL Asian American males is pretty messed up.
posted by danny the boy at 11:48 AM on May 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
Or are you telling me you're only interested in the subset of my race that meets your standards for hotness/asianness?
posted by danny the boy at 11:49 AM on May 7, 2016
posted by danny the boy at 11:49 AM on May 7, 2016
One of the women mentioned that she has dated lots of hot asian guys, which... as an AA man, I literally don't know what to do with this information.
Oh, yeah, this has totally happened to me too. I notice that a lot of white people do this especially, and it reads as way to brag that they're a special snowflake that's not racist. Like, I would consider sexual and romantic attraction as one of the tougher things to unroot unconscious racist biases from. And these white people are bragging about how much of a rebel they are against the status quo they are for resisting cultural programming that says Asian men are unfuckable. Except, they aren't really, because they clearly view dating us as collecting dolls or something, totally different from dating normal human men? Double if they see dating Asian men as an easy gateway into "authentic Asian culture"? Triple if their dating behavior never seems to go deeper than a first date at the local dim sum restaurant once before skipping to the next dude?
It also reminds me of this dude I used to have a crush on when I was a lot younger and had a lot less experience naming racism. I thought I had a chance with him because he would basically post all of these pictures of K-Pop stars on his Facebook feed and comment on how beautiful they were and then go into creeds about how much he loved Japanese culture and was learning the language and everything. When I asked him out, he was like, "mm, I don't know, aren't you only interested in men of your own race too?" And I was just like, "do you just think of Asian men as like, some kind of alien species or something?"
posted by Conspire at 12:32 PM on May 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oh, yeah, this has totally happened to me too. I notice that a lot of white people do this especially, and it reads as way to brag that they're a special snowflake that's not racist. Like, I would consider sexual and romantic attraction as one of the tougher things to unroot unconscious racist biases from. And these white people are bragging about how much of a rebel they are against the status quo they are for resisting cultural programming that says Asian men are unfuckable. Except, they aren't really, because they clearly view dating us as collecting dolls or something, totally different from dating normal human men? Double if they see dating Asian men as an easy gateway into "authentic Asian culture"? Triple if their dating behavior never seems to go deeper than a first date at the local dim sum restaurant once before skipping to the next dude?
It also reminds me of this dude I used to have a crush on when I was a lot younger and had a lot less experience naming racism. I thought I had a chance with him because he would basically post all of these pictures of K-Pop stars on his Facebook feed and comment on how beautiful they were and then go into creeds about how much he loved Japanese culture and was learning the language and everything. When I asked him out, he was like, "mm, I don't know, aren't you only interested in men of your own race too?" And I was just like, "do you just think of Asian men as like, some kind of alien species or something?"
posted by Conspire at 12:32 PM on May 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
I was born in the UK and I feel very British, but since my parents are from Hong Kong I'm always happy to see someone who looks like me on TV or at the cinema. For a very long time, the only Chinese people I could name on a screen were Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan, both of whom were very talented, but also confined to the kung-fun genre - which unsurprisingly rubbed off on people's perceptions of me as well.
So when I saw Daniel Dae Kim on Lost, I was super-happy! And yes, he is not even Chinese - he's Korean! But fuck it, I took what I could get given the utter lack of any south-east Asian people on TV I watched. And then there was John Cho, also very cool to see. But best of all was Ken Leung on Lost, who was born in the US but apparently has Chinese parents.
Ken was different, because unlike Daniel Dae Kim, whose character on Lost was sadly portrayed as an emotionless tough guy, Ken's Miles Straume on Lost was basically a sardonic American who, frankly, didn't look even remotely hot. He was just a normal guy.
Now, I'm lucky enough not to be on the sharp end of any racism or bias in the UK - not any that I can detect, at least. And yet it's still something special to see someone who looks like me on TV or in the movies. Personally, I'd rather see #starringkenleung but like I said - fuck it, I'll take what I can get, John Cho seems like a great guy as well, and god knows we could do with more south-east Asians in the movies and TV.
posted by adrianhon at 2:51 PM on May 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
So when I saw Daniel Dae Kim on Lost, I was super-happy! And yes, he is not even Chinese - he's Korean! But fuck it, I took what I could get given the utter lack of any south-east Asian people on TV I watched. And then there was John Cho, also very cool to see. But best of all was Ken Leung on Lost, who was born in the US but apparently has Chinese parents.
Ken was different, because unlike Daniel Dae Kim, whose character on Lost was sadly portrayed as an emotionless tough guy, Ken's Miles Straume on Lost was basically a sardonic American who, frankly, didn't look even remotely hot. He was just a normal guy.
Now, I'm lucky enough not to be on the sharp end of any racism or bias in the UK - not any that I can detect, at least. And yet it's still something special to see someone who looks like me on TV or in the movies. Personally, I'd rather see #starringkenleung but like I said - fuck it, I'll take what I can get, John Cho seems like a great guy as well, and god knows we could do with more south-east Asians in the movies and TV.
posted by adrianhon at 2:51 PM on May 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
Here's two more Asian American actors: Bob Morley, who is half-Filipino, and Osric Chau, who I think is Canadian and I don't know other than that.
They're both small-screen actors who will stand up well on the big screen, just like all of the various Chrises that have been lifted up by Marvel.
There's also Joy Regullano, who is a writer and an actress, and has a series of humorous Youtube videos about having a "white fetish".
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 9:13 AM on May 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
They're both small-screen actors who will stand up well on the big screen, just like all of the various Chrises that have been lifted up by Marvel.
There's also Joy Regullano, who is a writer and an actress, and has a series of humorous Youtube videos about having a "white fetish".
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 9:13 AM on May 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
the most precious delightful wonderful human being osric chau is canadian-chinese and here he is as captain america
he really likes doing cosplay and i am sad that he is not the new spiderman despite having many superhero skills
posted by poffin boffin at 11:09 AM on May 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
he really likes doing cosplay and i am sad that he is not the new spiderman despite having many superhero skills
posted by poffin boffin at 11:09 AM on May 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
He really does have superhero skills tho
I think there's some nuance to be noted discussing Hollywood and beauty, because insofar as they make Art, they are quite correctly concerned with Beauty. But that isn't limited to sexual attractiveness. Acting is necessarily objectifying, on just about every level, and an actor's appearance is crucial, but that shouldn't limit actors to people who look good with their shirt off. It generally doesn't - for white men.
(What Beauty is, could fill a senior thesis, so skip that.)
Beauty in film has just as much to do with the people holding the camera and directing it, and how they think about the person in front of them. It's not enough to send beautiful people to Hollywood when the camera betrays the bias of the person holding it.
Aand I don't know where else I'm going with this. Okay.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 12:04 PM on May 8, 2016
I think there's some nuance to be noted discussing Hollywood and beauty, because insofar as they make Art, they are quite correctly concerned with Beauty. But that isn't limited to sexual attractiveness. Acting is necessarily objectifying, on just about every level, and an actor's appearance is crucial, but that shouldn't limit actors to people who look good with their shirt off. It generally doesn't - for white men.
(What Beauty is, could fill a senior thesis, so skip that.)
Beauty in film has just as much to do with the people holding the camera and directing it, and how they think about the person in front of them. It's not enough to send beautiful people to Hollywood when the camera betrays the bias of the person holding it.
Aand I don't know where else I'm going with this. Okay.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 12:04 PM on May 8, 2016
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posted by town of cats at 2:44 PM on May 6, 2016 [15 favorites]