@chevalier_cygne comes into her own
May 22, 2016 1:13 AM   Subscribe

 
Well that was satisfying. Who said a liberal arts education has ko value (and how can the world make sure that PhD gets written!)
posted by chapps at 1:22 AM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Great stuff, though I now have to go and wash my eyes out after looking at that shouty, click-batey "Indy100" site.
posted by greenhornet at 2:10 AM on May 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Technically, destroyed by graduate student, which is even better
posted by gingerest at 3:12 AM on May 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


Considering most of their arguments can be seriously challenged by a determined kindergartener, a graduate student is overkill (but delightful, nevertheless). Whining about non-white actors in plays being "unrealistic" is pretty tired these days, even for old school racists.

This revelation does raise some questions about the royal swans, though.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:21 AM on May 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Technically @chevalier_cygne has remarked that using that manuscript as a supposedly accurate portrait of Margaret is very silly. The questions of a) what Margaret of Anjou's looks were really like and b) can this actress portray Margaret are a different thing.

Still, Sophie Okonedo has the exact right to play Margaret of Anjou in a Shakespeare adaptation as all the many white men who have played Othello, all the thirty-something actors and actresses who have played thirteen-year-old Juliet Capulet and all the non-Italians who have played Julius Caesar, Mark Anthony, Coriolanus or Titus Andronicus.
posted by sukeban at 3:22 AM on May 22, 2016 [35 favorites]


Well that was satisfying. Who said a liberal arts education has ko value (and how can the world make sure that PhD gets written!)

It does have k.o. value at least, eh? Incidentally, The Hollow Crown adaptations are excellent in general.
posted by ersatz at 3:35 AM on May 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


and all the non-Italians who have played Julius Caesar, Mark Anthony, Coriolanus or Titus Andronicus.

Please. Roman, or go home.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:37 AM on May 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Is it too much to expect non-corporeal actors to play the ghosts in Hamlet, Julius Caesar, Macbeth, and Richard III?
posted by peeedro at 3:47 AM on May 22, 2016 [34 favorites]


Please. Roman, or go home.

I dream of Robert De Niro, Danny DeVito or Al Pacino starring in a peplum instead of the usual WASPy cast. It's not as if you guys have a shortage of Italian American actors, ffs.
posted by sukeban at 3:59 AM on May 22, 2016


De Niro is only a quarter Italian. He's also a quarter Irish and a quarter German, a combination extremely unlikely during the time of the Roman emperors, so he's obviously OBVIOUSLY disqualified.
posted by maxsparber at 4:44 AM on May 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


The suspense is killing me! Where does De Niro's 4th quarter come from?
posted by TedW at 5:02 AM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Swan, obviously.
posted by saucysault at 5:06 AM on May 22, 2016 [93 favorites]


Okonedo is an Oscar-nominated Shakespearean professional who has so far received great reviews for her performance.

Given this, why would she choose that awful piece of crap that is Undercover. Though she's unquestionably the best thing in it.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 5:22 AM on May 22, 2016


Given this, why would she choose that awful piece of crap that is Undercover.

After a while, you'll do anything to get away from the Bard. Just ask Marlowe.
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:36 AM on May 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


De Niro is only a quarter Italian. He's also a quarter Irish and a quarter German, a combination extremely unlikely during the time of the Roman emperors, so he's obviously OBVIOUSLY disqualified.

Only the Irish would be unlikely, and only up until, say Hadrian. In the later centuries, a lot of Germans were Romans. This is especially true if we consider modern-day boundaries, where such major cities as Cologne, Mainz, and Trier were large Roman cities starting from ~150CE.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:30 AM on May 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


Is it too much to expect non-corporeal actors to play the ghosts in Hamlet, Julius Caesar, Macbeth, and Richard III?
Tupac would kill.
posted by idiopath at 8:11 AM on May 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Victor Mature!
(Rowr)
posted by clavdivs at 8:24 AM on May 22, 2016


...has the exact right to play Margaret of Anjou in a Shakespeare adaptation as all the many white men who have played Othello...

Um, blackface Othello is and always was a shockingly bad idea.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 10:18 AM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Don't let any of these people know about "Hamilton", or it'll blow their minds
posted by Apocryphon at 10:49 AM on May 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Any performance of Shakespeare without 14 year old boys playing all the female roles is a travesty
posted by The Whelk at 10:56 AM on May 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


Somebody should give Chevalier Cygne their PhD already, based solely on the strength of that one comment
posted by Soliloquy at 11:08 AM on May 22, 2016


Um, blackface Othello is and always was a shockingly bad idea.

Blackface as a bad idea is a modern concept. Between the 1600s and the 1900s it was an acceptable suspension of disbelief. The point being, accurate portrayal of characters in theater (and opera, and other genres) regarding ethnicity, age or gender has historically never been terribly important, so who cares if Okonedo is playing a French aristocrat.
posted by sukeban at 11:17 AM on May 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


This seems like a good place for another shoutout to the wonderful People of Color in European Art History tumblr.
posted by bibliowench at 12:18 PM on May 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Don't let any of these people know about "Hamilton", or it'll blow their minds.

This is my big dream for the true legacy of Hamilton : after seeing a multi ethnic cast convincingly play the founding fathers in a money making production, Broadway producers (And hopefully companies across the US) will say "fuck it" and just start considering the best actors for every role regardless of their ethnic background.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:21 PM on May 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


As "cygne" means swan and she BILLS herself as "#1 creator of swan-related viral content" this is clearly nothing more than self-PREENING left-WING bias.
posted by juniper at 1:33 PM on May 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


In the strictest sense, any performance of Shakespeare with 14 year old boys playing all the female roles is a travesty.
posted by perhapsolutely at 2:45 PM on May 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Blackface as a bad idea is a modern concept.

Well ... it may have occurred to some black people at the time
posted by iotic at 3:18 PM on May 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


The black men, like William Henry Lane aka Master Juba, inventor of tap dance, or George Walker and Bert Williams, the first black superstars, who took over blackface minstrelsy in the late 19th probably had a more nuanced view.
posted by y2karl at 3:47 PM on May 22, 2016


The rest of the thread will be a recitation of the script to Bamboozled!
posted by beerperson at 6:29 PM on May 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Good thing I was thinking primarily of Othello or Aaron (from Titus Andronicus) or the cast of Verdi's Aida, not minstrelsy or other racial caricature, then.
posted by sukeban at 8:37 PM on May 22, 2016


(And we're not really disagreeing here, we're just talking about different historical and geographical contexts: me above from a British/ European one particularly Shakespeare adaptations from the 1600s to the Victorian or Edwardian era, you from an American POV)
posted by sukeban at 9:01 PM on May 22, 2016


Sophie Okonedo is a GREAT actress and anyone getting bent out of shape about her being cast in anything is wrong.
posted by louche mustachio at 12:15 AM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


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