The symbolic value of rock is conflict-based:
May 23, 2016 1:28 PM Subscribe
Which Rock Star Will Historians of the Future Remember? by Chuck Klosterman [The New York Times] The most important musical form of the 20th century will be nearly forgotten one day. People will probably learn about the genre through one figure — so who might that be?
I imagine a college classroom in 300 years, in which a hip instructor is leading a tutorial filled with students. These students relate to rock music with no more fluency than they do the music of Mesopotamia: It’s a style they’ve learned to recognize, but just barely (and only because they’ve taken this specific class). Nobody in the room can name more than two rock songs, except the professor. He explains the sonic structure of rock, its origins, the way it served as cultural currency and how it shaped and defined three generations of a global superpower. He shows the class a photo, or perhaps a hologram, of an artist who has been intentionally selected to epitomize the entire concept. For these future students, that singular image defines what rock was.
So what’s the image?
I hope it's Lemmy.
posted by thelonius at 1:35 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 1:35 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
I imagine a college classroom in 300 years
Lol sure, there will be "college" and "classrooms" in 300 years
the professor
Oh wow, it gets even better!
posted by clockzero at 1:38 PM on May 23, 2016 [44 favorites]
Lol sure, there will be "college" and "classrooms" in 300 years
the professor
Oh wow, it gets even better!
posted by clockzero at 1:38 PM on May 23, 2016 [44 favorites]
I honestly don't expect this will be the case. The culture of this moment in time will remain interesting because of the dawn of the information age. And investigation into the monumental explosion of data we suddenly started producing will always be inextricably tied to the cultural impact of the music and film of the 20th century. I will be surprised if people 300 years ago can't rattle off a list of 20 or 30 rock stars from our era. This is, after all, the moment when cultural eidetic memory was born.
But, if we're playing this game, it's obviously a picture of The Beatles.
posted by 256 at 1:42 PM on May 23, 2016 [37 favorites]
But, if we're playing this game, it's obviously a picture of The Beatles.
posted by 256 at 1:42 PM on May 23, 2016 [37 favorites]
Not mentioned at all in the article, but I'd say Jimi with his guitar on fire.
posted by LionIndex at 1:43 PM on May 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by LionIndex at 1:43 PM on May 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
I disagree with the premise that rock was the most important musical form of the 20th century. At least the article did try to support that argument:
"The defining music of the first half of the 20th century was jazz; the defining music of the second half of the 20th century was rock, but with an ideology and saturation far more pervasive. Only television surpasses its influence."
Jazz is both a more important musical form and much more prevalent in ideology than the author gives credit.
Rock and roll is surprisingly secondary to pop even during its peak years. Airwaves were more dominated by "Wouldn't You Like to Ride in My Beautiful Balloon" or Burt Bachrach in the 60s. "King of the Road" won the Grammy for Best Rock Single. (The article does address this issue somewhat, but it doesn't diminish the role of rock in the eyes of writer.)
All of that said, Chuck Berry.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:44 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
"The defining music of the first half of the 20th century was jazz; the defining music of the second half of the 20th century was rock, but with an ideology and saturation far more pervasive. Only television surpasses its influence."
Jazz is both a more important musical form and much more prevalent in ideology than the author gives credit.
Rock and roll is surprisingly secondary to pop even during its peak years. Airwaves were more dominated by "Wouldn't You Like to Ride in My Beautiful Balloon" or Burt Bachrach in the 60s. "King of the Road" won the Grammy for Best Rock Single. (The article does address this issue somewhat, but it doesn't diminish the role of rock in the eyes of writer.)
All of that said, Chuck Berry.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:44 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
I would reject the premise like 256 on the grounds that the evaluation of rock is tied to the information age. While the thing itself was not computerized, the canonization that goes on now before everybody who can remember it is dead means that any retrospective will have to take into account all the lists during our time in a way that did not happen at such a level before.
I say the Beatles but the argument for Chuck Berry is strong.
I'm quite fond of some Nelson Riddle myself.
posted by solarion at 1:47 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I say the Beatles but the argument for Chuck Berry is strong.
I'm quite fond of some Nelson Riddle myself.
posted by solarion at 1:47 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I disagree with the notions that (a) rock will be nearly forgotten 300 years from now and (b) that it will be represented in a college classroom through just a single artist.
Sure, only Shakespeare gets regular notice these days among the numerous playwrights of his day. But for good reason — he was head and shoulders and more above the rest of them. Only John Philip Sousa stands out today among the march composers, for the same reason. But many composers from the eras of Bach, Beethoven and Mozart are still known and appreciated. The opera repertoire is getting bigger, not narrowing down to a few standards. If we move up to jazz, dozens and dozens of jazz figures from the first half of the 20th are well-remembered today. And rock is not even starting to be forgotten. Stations with "adult alternative" playlists play many artists from the 60s and 70s. Granted, those of us who grew up in those years are still around listening. But I bet those songs will not go out of style when we depart the scene, any more than the jazz standards of the earlier generations have gone away.
The comments on the NYT site mostly seem to accept Klosterman's thesis, they're just proposing alternatives to his suggestions of who will be remembered. But the whole premise is wrong.
posted by beagle at 1:47 PM on May 23, 2016 [23 favorites]
Sure, only Shakespeare gets regular notice these days among the numerous playwrights of his day. But for good reason — he was head and shoulders and more above the rest of them. Only John Philip Sousa stands out today among the march composers, for the same reason. But many composers from the eras of Bach, Beethoven and Mozart are still known and appreciated. The opera repertoire is getting bigger, not narrowing down to a few standards. If we move up to jazz, dozens and dozens of jazz figures from the first half of the 20th are well-remembered today. And rock is not even starting to be forgotten. Stations with "adult alternative" playlists play many artists from the 60s and 70s. Granted, those of us who grew up in those years are still around listening. But I bet those songs will not go out of style when we depart the scene, any more than the jazz standards of the earlier generations have gone away.
The comments on the NYT site mostly seem to accept Klosterman's thesis, they're just proposing alternatives to his suggestions of who will be remembered. But the whole premise is wrong.
posted by beagle at 1:47 PM on May 23, 2016 [23 favorites]
Someone noteworthy, popular, productive, male, but kinda second-tier will function as the avatar of Elizabethan Rock. Probably not a band, despite that being the default unit of the form. Bryan Adams? Bon Jovi?
From thinking about this question before (how will future generations re-/misinterpret our culture?) it's just as likely that people will remember our music, if at all, through the lense of the producer. Think of all those samey Ross Robinson bands of the Nineties or Fatboy Slim one-offs, remixes and sideprojects.
posted by comealongpole at 1:48 PM on May 23, 2016
From thinking about this question before (how will future generations re-/misinterpret our culture?) it's just as likely that people will remember our music, if at all, through the lense of the producer. Think of all those samey Ross Robinson bands of the Nineties or Fatboy Slim one-offs, remixes and sideprojects.
posted by comealongpole at 1:48 PM on May 23, 2016
Milli Vanilli.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:48 PM on May 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:48 PM on May 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
M-M-M Max Headroom Room. Obviously.
I will be surprised if people 300 years ago can't rattle off a list of 20 or 30 rock stars from our era.
How many entertainers from the highly influential industrial era of the 19th century do you recall? I mean there was Mozart, and um...
posted by happyroach at 1:49 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
I will be surprised if people 300 years ago can't rattle off a list of 20 or 30 rock stars from our era.
How many entertainers from the highly influential industrial era of the 19th century do you recall? I mean there was Mozart, and um...
posted by happyroach at 1:49 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm guessing Herb Alpert's Tijuana Brass -- Whipped Cream & Other Delights. Copies of this album seem to have dispersed themselves throughout our society such that after all record stores and Amazon warehouses are gone and The Cloud evaporates, future archaeologists will still find copies in such great numbers in excavated basements and swap meets that it's centrality to our culture will be scientifically indisputable.
posted by nequalsone at 1:49 PM on May 23, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by nequalsone at 1:49 PM on May 23, 2016 [27 favorites]
Oh, and now I've read the article and see that he acknowledges that The Beatles are the single obvious choice from our present perspective, but argues that they might lose out for various reasons in the long run. Very well then.
Also, TIL that Chuck Berry was black.
posted by 256 at 1:51 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also, TIL that Chuck Berry was black.
posted by 256 at 1:51 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Which metafilter poster will future historians remember as the greatest of all? So many choices however it me.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:51 PM on May 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:51 PM on May 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
I love this:
posted by Ironmouth at 1:52 PM on May 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
In 2014, the jazz historian Ted Gioia published a short essay about music criticism that outraged a class of perpetually outraged music critics. Gioia’s assertion was that 21st‑century music writing has devolved into a form of lifestyle journalism that willfully ignores the technical details of the music itself.So true. The current critics try and dictate to people what the music "means." It has no set meaning for anyone--listeners take all sorts of things away from it and often different things at different times. Anyone who asserts what music is about for "us" is full of it.
posted by Ironmouth at 1:52 PM on May 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
Chuck Klosterman: The Whole Premise is Wrong
(metafilter: But the whole premise is wrong.)
posted by aspersioncast at 1:53 PM on May 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
(metafilter: But the whole premise is wrong.)
posted by aspersioncast at 1:53 PM on May 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
(I've met Chuck twice. He was cooler the first time, I met him. He's still cool, but he's been infected by the hipster mafia.)
posted by jonmc at 1:54 PM on May 23, 2016
posted by jonmc at 1:54 PM on May 23, 2016
He shows the class a photo, or perhaps a hologram, of an artist who has been intentionally selected to epitomize the entire concept. For these future students, that singular image defines what trolling was.
So what’s the image?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:54 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
So what’s the image?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:54 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
I think rock and hip-hop's eventual legacy will be to live on as folk music. 1000 years from now, people might not know who the Beatles were, but their music might very well continue to exist as nursery rhymes and ubiquitous musical motifs.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:55 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:55 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also, TIL that Chuck Berry was black.
Wait just one goshdarned second, are you saying you're from 300 years in the future?
posted by nequalsone at 1:56 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Wait just one goshdarned second, are you saying you're from 300 years in the future?
posted by nequalsone at 1:56 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
300 years from now will be as far from the present is to the music of Mesopotamia? Which culture? Which era?
As 256 noted, this is much different than the world 300 years back, or even 100 years ago, so Spider Robinson's Melancholy Elephants seems more prescient than this article, though Elephants is about the record of the music more than the music itself.
Still, we won't be limited to 1 rock band/musician, because rock is more living and vital than marches were with Sousa. While we're a lot closer to The Beatles, Elvis and even Michael Jackson than Sousa, those three and many other dead artists and groups live on through radio stations that play the "classics" (often pulling from as far back as the 1950s), plus cover bands and bands playing covers.
Our records of music will keep memories alive, but I agree with the idea that it will be the critics and writers who focus us back on certain picks, reinforcing history (like how The Beatles were magically the biggest band in the world, ignoring how The Ventures outsold the Beatles in Japan [Google books preview]).
posted by filthy light thief at 1:56 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
As 256 noted, this is much different than the world 300 years back, or even 100 years ago, so Spider Robinson's Melancholy Elephants seems more prescient than this article, though Elephants is about the record of the music more than the music itself.
Still, we won't be limited to 1 rock band/musician, because rock is more living and vital than marches were with Sousa. While we're a lot closer to The Beatles, Elvis and even Michael Jackson than Sousa, those three and many other dead artists and groups live on through radio stations that play the "classics" (often pulling from as far back as the 1950s), plus cover bands and bands playing covers.
Our records of music will keep memories alive, but I agree with the idea that it will be the critics and writers who focus us back on certain picks, reinforcing history (like how The Beatles were magically the biggest band in the world, ignoring how The Ventures outsold the Beatles in Japan [Google books preview]).
posted by filthy light thief at 1:56 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
seriously, Bob Dylan ...
but if it's a sloppy argument you're looking for, then Can, because they sure sounded great last night ... and it's already been more than forty years.
posted by philip-random at 1:58 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
but if it's a sloppy argument you're looking for, then Can, because they sure sounded great last night ... and it's already been more than forty years.
posted by philip-random at 1:58 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
I say the Beatles but the argument for Chuck Berry is strong.
"Here's the one it's all about..." - jg
posted by j_curiouser at 1:58 PM on May 23, 2016
"Here's the one it's all about..." - jg
posted by j_curiouser at 1:58 PM on May 23, 2016
This was a really good article. People tempted to jump in and fight over the click-baity premise, maybe keep that knee from jerking and read it. Judging by the comments here you may be surprised by how much you already agree with it.
posted by Sangermaine at 1:58 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Sangermaine at 1:58 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Pfft, haven't you watched the new Star Trek trailer? In the future all music is The Beastie Boys.
posted by ckape at 1:58 PM on May 23, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by ckape at 1:58 PM on May 23, 2016 [15 favorites]
Iggy standing on a sea of hands in Cincinnati. Professor to class: "That's peanut butter."
posted by AJaffe at 1:59 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by AJaffe at 1:59 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Also at this rate "college" and "classroom" and "music" in 300 years will just be a bunch of rat-sized roaches pushing the buttons on the last tesla-built pilot-model automated wendy's refreshment kiosk to make it singe [heh] "happy birthday."
posted by aspersioncast at 1:59 PM on May 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 1:59 PM on May 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
the shaggs
posted by pyramid termite at 2:00 PM on May 23, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 2:00 PM on May 23, 2016 [14 favorites]
Anyhow, the top image of an actual band or artist when you do a google image search for "Rock and Roll" is this one, which seems totally plausible. Though, personally, I vouch for this one or this one.
posted by 256 at 2:01 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by 256 at 2:01 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
as far from the present is to the music of Mesopotamia?
That's not that far
posted by mcstayinskool at 2:01 PM on May 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
That's not that far
posted by mcstayinskool at 2:01 PM on May 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
People tempted to jump in and fight over the click-baity premise, maybe keep that knee from jerking and read it.
Nice try Satan.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:01 PM on May 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
Nice try Satan.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:01 PM on May 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
seriously, Bob Dylan ...
No, it should be somebody who can sing, too.
posted by The Tensor at 2:01 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
No, it should be somebody who can sing, too.
posted by The Tensor at 2:01 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
my fear is that 300 years from now people will remember Chuck Klosterman.
posted by thivaia at 2:03 PM on May 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by thivaia at 2:03 PM on May 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
but he's right about there only being one - you look back at greek philosophy and there's plato and um, um, that other guy
look at roman literature - there's virgil and well, those other guys
italian artists - there was michelangelo and um, well, you know, some other guys
english romantic poets - well, there was keats and huh - well there were others, i'm sure
it's an absurd premise when you actually think about it
posted by pyramid termite at 2:05 PM on May 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
look at roman literature - there's virgil and well, those other guys
italian artists - there was michelangelo and um, well, you know, some other guys
english romantic poets - well, there was keats and huh - well there were others, i'm sure
it's an absurd premise when you actually think about it
posted by pyramid termite at 2:05 PM on May 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
"But I bet those songs will not go out of style when we depart the scene"
Already, 50s/60s oldies stations playing Buddy Holly (and Chuck Berry, for that matter) are pretty much gone from the airwaves, at least relative to what they were 20 years ago. Older music is difficult to find, as well - there really aren't a lot of stations playing, say, Bing Crosby anymore, except at Christmastime.
Of course, this is presuming AM/FM radio will endure, which is probably unlikely. And that's probably the best thing that can happen to older music. I listen to Buddy Holly at least once a week on Spotify now, after years of frustration that I couldn't find an FM station in my market playing that kind of music. The long tail and all that...
posted by kevinbelt at 2:07 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Already, 50s/60s oldies stations playing Buddy Holly (and Chuck Berry, for that matter) are pretty much gone from the airwaves, at least relative to what they were 20 years ago. Older music is difficult to find, as well - there really aren't a lot of stations playing, say, Bing Crosby anymore, except at Christmastime.
Of course, this is presuming AM/FM radio will endure, which is probably unlikely. And that's probably the best thing that can happen to older music. I listen to Buddy Holly at least once a week on Spotify now, after years of frustration that I couldn't find an FM station in my market playing that kind of music. The long tail and all that...
posted by kevinbelt at 2:07 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm guessing Herb Alpert's Tijuana Brass -- Whipped Cream & Other Delights. Copies of this album seem to have dispersed themselves throughout our society such that after all record stores and Amazon warehouses are gone and The Cloud evaporates, future archaeologists will still find copies in such great numbers in excavated basements and swap meets that it's centrality to our culture will be scientifically indisputable.
6 million copies is a lot. But Fleetwood Mac's Rumours sold 40 million worldwide.
posted by hal9k at 2:09 PM on May 23, 2016
6 million copies is a lot. But Fleetwood Mac's Rumours sold 40 million worldwide.
posted by hal9k at 2:09 PM on May 23, 2016
Yeah, I think it's kind of a bogus premise. I said it in the Bowie obit thread: People will be listening to Life on Mars on Mars. Abbey Road isn't going away either. The truly great stuff endures.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:11 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:11 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Here's my main issue with this article: Chuck doesn't really care about history, how it's created, or how it's reported. Because of that, he's not really concerned with what the reality of 300 years of pop culture will actually look like and how it will get humans to behave. In fact we're already seeing how different life can be when all culture exists in an eternal digital library. There is a 13 year old right now somewhere whose favorite bands are Nirvana, Devo, the Paragons, and Organized Konfusion. We don't need or desire one single canon -- everything is available for free at all times in perpetuity. Art History has itself fundamentally changed now that recorded music is a commodity rather than a rare good. There will be no professor, no class, no image and no lesson. There will be something else.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:12 PM on May 23, 2016 [25 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:12 PM on May 23, 2016 [25 favorites]
but he's right about there only being one - you look back at greek philosophy and there's plato and um, um, that other guy
look at roman literature - there's virgil and well, those other guys
italian artists - there was michelangelo and um, well, you know, some other guys
english romantic poets - well, there was keats and huh - well there were others, i'm sure
it's an absurd premise when you actually think about it
No, and your examples actually back up the premise. Take what he said about Sousa:
posted by Sangermaine at 2:13 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
look at roman literature - there's virgil and well, those other guys
italian artists - there was michelangelo and um, well, you know, some other guys
english romantic poets - well, there was keats and huh - well there were others, i'm sure
it's an absurd premise when you actually think about it
No, and your examples actually back up the premise. Take what he said about Sousa:
I have no data on this, but I would assert that if we were to ask the entire population of the United States to name every composer of marching music they could think of, 98 percent of the populace would name either one person (Sousa) or no one at all.and
These students relate to rock music with no more fluency than they do the music of Mesopotamia: It’s a style they’ve learned to recognize, but just barely (and only because they’ve taken this specific class)Imagine going outside right now abd asking rabdom people on the street about your categories. You'd likely get one, maybe two, more likely even zero answers per category. That's what he's referring to.
posted by Sangermaine at 2:13 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Older music is difficult to find, as well
start shopping at antique stores and you'll hear it all the time
posted by pyramid termite at 2:13 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
start shopping at antique stores and you'll hear it all the time
posted by pyramid termite at 2:13 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Nickelback, of course. (Dystopian? Me?)
posted by praemunire at 2:13 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 2:13 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Rock and roll is surprisingly secondary to pop even during its peak years.
The article The Lost Symphony has a brilliant bit about this sort of thing, in which the author points out that no one (excepting historians) cares about what the people of a certain time period considered good -- what people read is historical literature that speaks to us.
The truly great stuff endures.
Provided it isn't surpassed by someone else. There are covers of songs that far surpass the original. (I know several people who were teens in the '90s who were stunned to find out Cash's version of "Hurt" was a cover.) Provided the entire genre doesn't go out of style.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 2:16 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
The article The Lost Symphony has a brilliant bit about this sort of thing, in which the author points out that no one (excepting historians) cares about what the people of a certain time period considered good -- what people read is historical literature that speaks to us.
The truly great stuff endures.
Provided it isn't surpassed by someone else. There are covers of songs that far surpass the original. (I know several people who were teens in the '90s who were stunned to find out Cash's version of "Hurt" was a cover.) Provided the entire genre doesn't go out of style.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 2:16 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
No, and your examples actually back up the premise. Take what he said about Sousa:
actually, your average person could probably sing at least two march songs that weren't composed by sousa - in fact, they're more likely to be able to sing them than the stars and stripes forever
sousa's not a good example
posted by pyramid termite at 2:16 PM on May 23, 2016
actually, your average person could probably sing at least two march songs that weren't composed by sousa - in fact, they're more likely to be able to sing them than the stars and stripes forever
sousa's not a good example
posted by pyramid termite at 2:16 PM on May 23, 2016
If all goes well, Wyld Stallyns.
posted by ckape at 2:17 PM on May 23, 2016 [38 favorites]
posted by ckape at 2:17 PM on May 23, 2016 [38 favorites]
actually, your average person could probably sing at least two march songs that weren't composed by sousa
That wasn't the question, though.
The question was can you *name* any marching music composer? He's almost certainly right about Sousa in that regard.
posted by Sangermaine at 2:18 PM on May 23, 2016
That wasn't the question, though.
The question was can you *name* any marching music composer? He's almost certainly right about Sousa in that regard.
posted by Sangermaine at 2:18 PM on May 23, 2016
Pretty sure a lot of people can name four Renaissance Italian artists.
posted by ckape at 2:19 PM on May 23, 2016 [67 favorites]
posted by ckape at 2:19 PM on May 23, 2016 [67 favorites]
300 years from now, whats left of humanity will be picking through the rubble of the 21st century wondering why we weren't more concerned about the weather and how we're going to eat today.
posted by doctor_negative at 2:20 PM on May 23, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by doctor_negative at 2:20 PM on May 23, 2016 [20 favorites]
oh, i'm sure they've heard of anonymous or "i don't know" before
posted by pyramid termite at 2:20 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by pyramid termite at 2:20 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
seriously, Bob Dylan ...
No, it should be somebody who can sing, too.
So, Tom Waits then...
posted by Fizz at 2:24 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
No, it should be somebody who can sing, too.
So, Tom Waits then...
posted by Fizz at 2:24 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
The oldest complete musical composition we know of is the Seikilos Epitaph (roughly 2000 years old, translation in the description).
The lyrics translate, as Hank Green noted in a vlogbrothers video, more or less to YOLO. So some things never change even as history and culture march on.
posted by Wretch729 at 2:26 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
The lyrics translate, as Hank Green noted in a vlogbrothers video, more or less to YOLO. So some things never change even as history and culture march on.
posted by Wretch729 at 2:26 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Pretty sure a lot of people can name four Renaissance Italian artists.
That weren't TMNTurtles? - Go!
Do people even know the Turtles were named for Renaissance Italian artists?
posted by Zedcaster at 2:30 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
That weren't TMNTurtles? - Go!
Do people even know the Turtles were named for Renaissance Italian artists?
posted by Zedcaster at 2:30 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
like the warlords of the future and their feral children are gonna give two fucks what music the idiots who cooked the earth were jerking themselves off to
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:30 PM on May 23, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:30 PM on May 23, 2016 [19 favorites]
^I may be listening to music wrong?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:31 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:31 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
My 3 cents:
1 person representing Rock: Chuck Berry. I think Roll Over Beethoven is as good a rock manifesto as it gets.
1 group representing Rock: The Rolling MFIng Stones. Get Yer YaYa's Out is a record that should be listened to at least once a month.
But I seriously think the Musician who is going to be remembered with the same reverence as Picasso 300 years from now, may be James Brown.
posted by indianbadger1 at 2:32 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
1 person representing Rock: Chuck Berry. I think Roll Over Beethoven is as good a rock manifesto as it gets.
1 group representing Rock: The Rolling MFIng Stones. Get Yer YaYa's Out is a record that should be listened to at least once a month.
But I seriously think the Musician who is going to be remembered with the same reverence as Picasso 300 years from now, may be James Brown.
posted by indianbadger1 at 2:32 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
That weren't TMNTurtles?
That was the joke.
posted by ckape at 2:34 PM on May 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
That was the joke.
posted by ckape at 2:34 PM on May 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
the stories of Presley and Dylan barely intersect (they supposedly met only once, in a Las Vegas hotel room).
They never met.
"I never met Elvis," Dylan says. "I never met Elvis, because I didn't want to meet Elvis.
'Went to See the Gypsy' is fiction, not autobiography.
To me, arguing for Chuck Berry as the iconic figure of rock music just feels like the writer imposing his 1980s upbringing on future readings of rock. In the Reagan era, it seems like Berry had a more dominant position in American culture than he ever has since. Something to do with 1950s nostalgia, I guess.
I don't think anyone much younger than myself would feel the significance he ascribes to Betry, although the significance is real. No-one knows who or how many will be remembered. I suspect that culture, should it survive, will be far too fragmented by oversupply of information for us to talk of a single dominant figure.
posted by howfar at 2:35 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
They never met.
"I never met Elvis," Dylan says. "I never met Elvis, because I didn't want to meet Elvis.
'Went to See the Gypsy' is fiction, not autobiography.
To me, arguing for Chuck Berry as the iconic figure of rock music just feels like the writer imposing his 1980s upbringing on future readings of rock. In the Reagan era, it seems like Berry had a more dominant position in American culture than he ever has since. Something to do with 1950s nostalgia, I guess.
I don't think anyone much younger than myself would feel the significance he ascribes to Betry, although the significance is real. No-one knows who or how many will be remembered. I suspect that culture, should it survive, will be far too fragmented by oversupply of information for us to talk of a single dominant figure.
posted by howfar at 2:35 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
It will be me, but my picture will be labeled "The Beatles".
Funny story how it'll happen, really.
posted by kyrademon at 2:36 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Funny story how it'll happen, really.
posted by kyrademon at 2:36 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Actually, the only known musician from the 20th and 21st Centuries will be Vax Tingle. This is because in 2133 the Puppites will use a previously undiscovered security flaw in the brain-computer interface to overwrite all digital art media with the name of the founder of their religion. So complete will be the overwrite that people holding ancient hardcopy media will still only see Vax Tingle's name.
Vax Tingle is also the only known painter, director, author game designer and cartoonist of the 20th and 21st century, this befitting hir status as an ascended diety.
posted by happyroach at 2:43 PM on May 23, 2016 [13 favorites]
Vax Tingle is also the only known painter, director, author game designer and cartoonist of the 20th and 21st century, this befitting hir status as an ascended diety.
posted by happyroach at 2:43 PM on May 23, 2016 [13 favorites]
Changing my vote to that great songwriter and multi-instrumentalist Jean-paul Giorgringo.
posted by comealongpole at 2:44 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by comealongpole at 2:44 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yet more rock culture hagiography, myth-building and canon-forming... stop, just stop, Chuck. It's deeply boring.
posted by naju at 2:44 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by naju at 2:44 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Imagine Chuck Klosterman cornering you at a party and pontificating for hours about Dylan vs Elvis vs Chuck Berry vs Jimi vs Beatles vs Rolling Stones, oh god, the nightmares
posted by naju at 2:45 PM on May 23, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by naju at 2:45 PM on May 23, 2016 [16 favorites]
I would jump out of a moving car going 90mph on the freeway to escape from a Serious Conversation about Bob Dylan
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:46 PM on May 23, 2016 [25 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:46 PM on May 23, 2016 [25 favorites]
Jim Morrison because we'll be due for another Doors revival around 2316.
I hope my head isn't being kept alive in a jar.
posted by bonobothegreat at 2:47 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
I hope my head isn't being kept alive in a jar.
posted by bonobothegreat at 2:47 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yet more rock culture hagiography, myth-building and canon-forming... stop, just stop, Chuck. It's deeply boring.
could be worse, could be poptimism.
posted by entropicamericana at 2:50 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
could be worse, could be poptimism.
posted by entropicamericana at 2:50 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm itching to respond in too many ways to this idiocy, but I'll confine myself to one picky detail:
"A year after that, the closeted gay crooner Tab Hunter was bigger than Jerry Lee Lewis and Fats Domino, 'but critics and music historians hate sentimental love songs. They’ve constructed a perspective that emphasizes the rise of rock and pushes everything else into the background. Transgressive rockers, in contrast, enjoy lasting fame.' "
What does Tab Hunter's being "closeted" and "gay" have to do with anything else in that sentence or the article for that matter? Is it that because he was closeted and gay his stuff is pablum and hokey and clearly not transgressive rock and won't stand the test of time, or is it that the stuff he sang was pablum and hokey and non-transgressive independent of whether he was a closeted homosexual or not?
If the latter, why not say "A year after that, the puritanically straight crooner Pat Boone was bigger than Jerry Lee Lewis and Fats Domino"? Pat Boone's career at that time was way bigger than Tab Hunter's ever was, and way bigger than almost anyone else's in the 1950s outside of Elvis.
posted by blucevalo at 2:50 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
"A year after that, the closeted gay crooner Tab Hunter was bigger than Jerry Lee Lewis and Fats Domino, 'but critics and music historians hate sentimental love songs. They’ve constructed a perspective that emphasizes the rise of rock and pushes everything else into the background. Transgressive rockers, in contrast, enjoy lasting fame.' "
What does Tab Hunter's being "closeted" and "gay" have to do with anything else in that sentence or the article for that matter? Is it that because he was closeted and gay his stuff is pablum and hokey and clearly not transgressive rock and won't stand the test of time, or is it that the stuff he sang was pablum and hokey and non-transgressive independent of whether he was a closeted homosexual or not?
If the latter, why not say "A year after that, the puritanically straight crooner Pat Boone was bigger than Jerry Lee Lewis and Fats Domino"? Pat Boone's career at that time was way bigger than Tab Hunter's ever was, and way bigger than almost anyone else's in the 1950s outside of Elvis.
posted by blucevalo at 2:50 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Question: Who is the Chinese Cliff Richard?
posted by comealongpole at 2:52 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by comealongpole at 2:52 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
From the article...
There are still things about the Beatles that can’t be explained, almost to the point of the supernatural: the way their music resonates with toddlers, for example, or the way it resonated with Charles Manson.
I can explain both of these things. The Beatles made silly children's music, and Manson is an insane person.
posted by billyfleetwood at 3:01 PM on May 23, 2016 [18 favorites]
There are still things about the Beatles that can’t be explained, almost to the point of the supernatural: the way their music resonates with toddlers, for example, or the way it resonated with Charles Manson.
I can explain both of these things. The Beatles made silly children's music, and Manson is an insane person.
posted by billyfleetwood at 3:01 PM on May 23, 2016 [18 favorites]
Wow - I feel like I read a different article than everyone else. The article I read made the point that the way we view history is constructed, and we choose historical figures to represent historical because of the ways in which their story and work ties in with this constructed view. That doesn't seem particularly problematic, does it?
Chuck even goes out of his way to make the argument about punk and disco on order to underscore that we don't know what values will be dominant in the future, and will shape the understanding of our current culture.
Given this point of view, his argument about Chuck Berry is based on some assumptions about the characteristics of rock that will presumably be important to the future.
posted by ianhattwick at 3:02 PM on May 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
Chuck even goes out of his way to make the argument about punk and disco on order to underscore that we don't know what values will be dominant in the future, and will shape the understanding of our current culture.
Given this point of view, his argument about Chuck Berry is based on some assumptions about the characteristics of rock that will presumably be important to the future.
posted by ianhattwick at 3:02 PM on May 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
seriously, Bob Dylan ...
No, it should be somebody who can sing, too.
well, then Tom Jones obviously.
posted by philip-random at 3:08 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
When I was a kid in the 1980s, I read a sci-fi book in which the young kids settling down on a new planet were listening to a popular Earth-era folk ballad: She loves you, yeah yeah yeah..
At any rate, are we not just talking canon formation yet again? And canon formation tends to be as much (if not more) about influence than immediate popularity. At least that's how it works in literature.
posted by kariebookish at 3:10 PM on May 23, 2016
At any rate, are we not just talking canon formation yet again? And canon formation tends to be as much (if not more) about influence than immediate popularity. At least that's how it works in literature.
posted by kariebookish at 3:10 PM on May 23, 2016
It never even occurred to me that Chuck Berry might not be black. I mean, his cousin Marvin's black, so while possible it's quite unlikely...
Which also makes for an interesting possibility where through an accident of history Marty McFly becomes the face of rock and roll to future historians.
posted by axiom at 3:14 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Which also makes for an interesting possibility where through an accident of history Marty McFly becomes the face of rock and roll to future historians.
posted by axiom at 3:14 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's going to be the rock organization that meant the most to me in my late teens, surely.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 3:15 PM on May 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 3:15 PM on May 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
Dark horse: Mark Mothersbaugh
posted by davebush at 3:16 PM on May 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by davebush at 3:16 PM on May 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
It's going to be the rock organization that meant the most to me in my late teens, surely.
lol, NO. It's going to be the one whose influence and deep cuts I discovered in my early twenties.
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:17 PM on May 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
lol, NO. It's going to be the one whose influence and deep cuts I discovered in my early twenties.
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:17 PM on May 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
Freddie Mercury. The song will be Bohemian Rhapsody.
posted by Splunge at 3:20 PM on May 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Splunge at 3:20 PM on May 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
We are all forgetting the possibility that Finnish Death Metal will have taken over the academy by then.
posted by clawsoon at 3:32 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by clawsoon at 3:32 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
It'll be the one which isn't so darned LOUD
posted by thelonius at 3:34 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 3:34 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Recent studies show that rock and roll is, in fact, dying.
posted by Fantods at 3:41 PM on May 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Fantods at 3:41 PM on May 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
I was waiting for that one Fantods, thank you.
posted by Meatbomb at 3:42 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Meatbomb at 3:42 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I've always felt that caricatures and larger-than-life figures are what remain after many years. I would argue that perhaps Freddie Mercury would be the example of a rocking rock star doing rock n roll.
posted by cell divide at 3:45 PM on May 23, 2016
posted by cell divide at 3:45 PM on May 23, 2016
I hope this is one of those great Klosterman articles where he argues for the already famous and status quo as if that was some great punk rock revelation because FUCK HIM FOREVER FOR ALL TIME.
posted by lumpenprole at 3:47 PM on May 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by lumpenprole at 3:47 PM on May 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
"Rock" is like saying "Classical". The depth and breadth of musical genre is simply too large to be defined a single individual. Making an argument for one or another is as absurd as comparing JS Bach vs. Stravinsky.
posted by Bdprtsma at 3:48 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Bdprtsma at 3:48 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Personally, I was waiting for this one.
sheesh.
posted by Fantods at 3:49 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
sheesh.
posted by Fantods at 3:49 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
What does Tab Hunter's being "closeted" and "gay" have to do with anything else in that sentence or the article for that matter? Is it that because he was closeted and gay his stuff is pablum and hokey and clearly not transgressive rock
I read as emphasizing how pop vocal music at the time wasn't transgressive. Hunter could only have a career if he remained closeted. His point was that rock critics value the authentic (even if we all know that very little of anybody's public image is).
posted by hydrophonic at 3:49 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I read as emphasizing how pop vocal music at the time wasn't transgressive. Hunter could only have a career if he remained closeted. His point was that rock critics value the authentic (even if we all know that very little of anybody's public image is).
posted by hydrophonic at 3:49 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
It'll probably be Jay-Z ("whose 'Roc-a-Fella' guild even laid aim to the genre's name"), and there will be a few paragraphs in the textbook about the mostly white subgenre that developed alongside the African-American mainstream of popular music revolving around the concept of "rocking" the listener.
posted by No-sword at 3:56 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by No-sword at 3:56 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Speaking of J.S. Bach, wasn't he a minor figure until Mendelssohn made a big deal out of him 75 years after Bach died? It's possible that the prototypical rock star will, like Bach, be somebody from the '50s or '60s that hardly any of us has heard of.
(Academics are the people who preserve cultural corpses in their mausoleums, and they like complicated stuff. So I predict that it'll be someone who made complicated music, someone you can write reams of essays about.)
posted by clawsoon at 3:58 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
(Academics are the people who preserve cultural corpses in their mausoleums, and they like complicated stuff. So I predict that it'll be someone who made complicated music, someone you can write reams of essays about.)
posted by clawsoon at 3:58 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Wait. Wait.
How could I have missed it?
Frank Zappa.
/thread
posted by Splunge at 4:02 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
How could I have missed it?
Frank Zappa.
/thread
posted by Splunge at 4:02 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'd be happy if it turns out to be Kanye West, just for the sheer number of white dudes who have important opinions about rock who will spin and shriek forever in their graves
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:08 PM on May 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:08 PM on May 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
Wow - I feel like I read a different article than everyone else.
I'd have to put money on most people not actually reading the article. Klosterman can, and often does, bug the hell out of me, but I thought this was actually interesting, well written, and well reasoned.
posted by bongo_x at 4:10 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'd have to put money on most people not actually reading the article. Klosterman can, and often does, bug the hell out of me, but I thought this was actually interesting, well written, and well reasoned.
posted by bongo_x at 4:10 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
And not Little Richard? I'm actually stunned.
I mean, I think Richard Penniman was the most transgressive of them all. He inspired others who would rock, decades after his heyday, to push the envelope in their writing, performance and presentation.
posted by droplet at 4:11 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I mean, I think Richard Penniman was the most transgressive of them all. He inspired others who would rock, decades after his heyday, to push the envelope in their writing, performance and presentation.
posted by droplet at 4:11 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
“Johnny B. Goode” is the only rock song on the Voyager disc, although a few other tunes were considered. “Here Comes the Sun” was a candidate,
Here Comes the Sun? Seriously?
posted by bongo_x at 4:13 PM on May 23, 2016
Here Comes the Sun? Seriously?
posted by bongo_x at 4:13 PM on May 23, 2016
People in the future will get the past all wrong, but, strangely, right. We get the past all wrong but, strangely, right. Having said that, I can confidently predict that the iconography of 300 years hence will represent our era of rock with images of Captain Beefheart and Annette Funicello.
posted by Chitownfats at 4:15 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Chitownfats at 4:15 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Band marches is a limited genre. If you asked me about composers of *marches*, I could give you a dozen. It's true I can't name *any* madrigal composers besides John Dowland off the top of my head, but I have a sense of the breadth of the topic of Madrigals. Will there be Wikipedia in the future? If so, I'll quickly upload "Rock and Roll" into my active neuron memory system before initiating a conversation.
posted by acrasis at 4:16 PM on May 23, 2016
posted by acrasis at 4:16 PM on May 23, 2016
I've always felt that caricatures and larger-than-life figures are what remain after many years. I would argue that perhaps Freddie Mercury would be the example of a rocking rock star doing rock n roll.
This! I was so proud of myself for having solved the Klosterman riddle halfway through and was SURE he was going to go with Ozzy. Oh well.
I don't get the Klosterman hate around here. He's my #2 celerity to have fantasy arguments with after Anthony Bourdain. I'd gladly make out with either were I single and fantastically attractive. I guess I should question my romantic strategies.
posted by macrowave at 4:18 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
This! I was so proud of myself for having solved the Klosterman riddle halfway through and was SURE he was going to go with Ozzy. Oh well.
I don't get the Klosterman hate around here. He's my #2 celerity to have fantasy arguments with after Anthony Bourdain. I'd gladly make out with either were I single and fantastically attractive. I guess I should question my romantic strategies.
posted by macrowave at 4:18 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
The truly great stuff endure
The definition of which stuff is the truly great stuff changes all the time, as people get over the overexposed stuff, lost treasures are unearthed/remastered/given the deluxe box-set treatment, the stuff people regarded as corny and overexposed ten years ago is given a fresh listen, and so on. Witness, for example, what constitutes “The 60s” now, versus, say, ten years ago, or the time in the early 80s that the Paisley Underground and such were mining it. Or how the decade-and-a-half-long 80s revival has gone through icy synthpop, mildly gothy guitar-rock, late-80s digital studio gloss and more.
Can we really be confident that what endures will be something obvious to us, like, say, The Beach Boys' “God Only Knows” or something equally canonic, rather than, say, some nicely-enough crafted record from a forgotten band, or something that's now dismissed as far from the best work of the artist in question?
posted by acb at 4:19 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
The definition of which stuff is the truly great stuff changes all the time, as people get over the overexposed stuff, lost treasures are unearthed/remastered/given the deluxe box-set treatment, the stuff people regarded as corny and overexposed ten years ago is given a fresh listen, and so on. Witness, for example, what constitutes “The 60s” now, versus, say, ten years ago, or the time in the early 80s that the Paisley Underground and such were mining it. Or how the decade-and-a-half-long 80s revival has gone through icy synthpop, mildly gothy guitar-rock, late-80s digital studio gloss and more.
Can we really be confident that what endures will be something obvious to us, like, say, The Beach Boys' “God Only Knows” or something equally canonic, rather than, say, some nicely-enough crafted record from a forgotten band, or something that's now dismissed as far from the best work of the artist in question?
posted by acb at 4:19 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
ok I've given this some thought, and knowing what we know about the future and what futuristic music sounds like, it seems likely that they will consider Clara Rockmore and Kraftwerk to be the most important artists of the 20th century
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:22 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:22 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Chuck Berry buys c'mon there's no argument (except that yes this premise is a bit silly).
When first reading this FPP I bet there was a significant proportion of people who had the opening chords of Johnny B Goode pop into their minds before anything else even had a chance.
posted by supercrayon at 4:23 PM on May 23, 2016
When first reading this FPP I bet there was a significant proportion of people who had the opening chords of Johnny B Goode pop into their minds before anything else even had a chance.
posted by supercrayon at 4:23 PM on May 23, 2016
If we're getting into predictions it will probably go Luigi Russolo, John Cage, Beefheart, Autechre, then on into brief footnotes around black MIDI, Hatsune Miku and vaporwave before jumping lightspeed into whatever batshit crowdsourced algorithmic cloud-fuck-pop we get up to next. The majority of rock will be wholly uninteresting. Hell, it already is.
posted by naju at 4:30 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by naju at 4:30 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
crack open your music history infotablet and all there is for this era is a big ol' hologram of J.R. Rotem
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:35 PM on May 23, 2016
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:35 PM on May 23, 2016
300 years from now, they'll still be releasing new hit songs from Prince's vault.
posted by straight at 4:47 PM on May 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by straight at 4:47 PM on May 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
In the year 2316, the question will be asked in Last University. After much debate and little agreement, the Grand Chancellor makes a decision. A band of scholars are sent out. They cross the wasteland that was once a great continent, brave storms of biblical proportions and combat feral packs of roving bandits. Less than half survive but they endure, climbing the Holy Mountain, where within the Sacred Bunker he resides. The Brotherhood of the Stone protect the Ancient One but even they acknowledge the validity of the quest. The scholars are allowed inside.
The Sacred Bunker is choked with a strange smoke and filled with carnal temptations. But the scholars were warned and they go to the deep core. There in a mighty domed chamber the Ancient One resides, lounging on a filthy couch, strumming an ancient device while barely clothed sycophants dance around him. One of the scholars clears her throat and the Ancient One lifts his head.
"Master, we are a band of historians and we come to you seeking your knowledge, your expertise. Can you please tell us, what was the defining image of rock music?"
The old man laughs, a hoarse and almost hideous sound. With a snap of his gnarled fingers an enormous image appears in the center of the room, reaching almost to the great ceiling. "Lemme tell ya about Chuck Berry," Keith Richards says.
posted by Ber at 4:51 PM on May 23, 2016 [25 favorites]
The Sacred Bunker is choked with a strange smoke and filled with carnal temptations. But the scholars were warned and they go to the deep core. There in a mighty domed chamber the Ancient One resides, lounging on a filthy couch, strumming an ancient device while barely clothed sycophants dance around him. One of the scholars clears her throat and the Ancient One lifts his head.
"Master, we are a band of historians and we come to you seeking your knowledge, your expertise. Can you please tell us, what was the defining image of rock music?"
The old man laughs, a hoarse and almost hideous sound. With a snap of his gnarled fingers an enormous image appears in the center of the room, reaching almost to the great ceiling. "Lemme tell ya about Chuck Berry," Keith Richards says.
posted by Ber at 4:51 PM on May 23, 2016 [25 favorites]
I don't think the future will underestimate the raw power and visceral pull of Sgt. Trump's Lonely Hearts Club Band's stylings from the soon-to-be launched rock-n-roll Platinum Era. A few esoteric edge-of-the-solar-system graduate bots may be programmed to promote the virtues of the Kanyashians and even Polo for Oligarchy Soup, but it's unthinkable that the Sgt. & Co.'s "The Wall" will not be ever remembered as the hugest, most successful rock-and-roll composition of all time. All the best, smartest people will say so.
posted by riverlife at 4:51 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by riverlife at 4:51 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
All you people proposing Chuck Berry, don't you realize that all study of Johnny B. Goode will be outlawed and severely punished by the TimeQuisition for fear of undoing the loop in time in which Marty McFly holds the whole chronoverse together?
In any case the Basilisk will have always had been severely punishing simulations of anyone who wastes their energies on any music other than synthesized renditions of "A Bicycle Built for Two."
posted by No-sword at 4:58 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
In any case the Basilisk will have always had been severely punishing simulations of anyone who wastes their energies on any music other than synthesized renditions of "A Bicycle Built for Two."
posted by No-sword at 4:58 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Using the logic of vinyl dissemination mentioned upthread, I posit it will be the cover to Frampton Comes Alive.
posted by sourwookie at 5:01 PM on May 23, 2016
posted by sourwookie at 5:01 PM on May 23, 2016
While I know that there isn't a shade of justice in the universe, if there were I'd think it would be Prince.
posted by Sphinx at 5:03 PM on May 23, 2016
posted by Sphinx at 5:03 PM on May 23, 2016
Weird Al, obviously.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 5:05 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 5:05 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
The Most Timeless Songs of All Time: Using Spotify to measure the popularity of older music
posted by Rhaomi at 5:10 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Until recently, it was impossible to measure the popularity of older music. Billboard charts and album sales only tell us about a song’s popularity at the time of its release.Lots of interactive goodness inside.
But now we have Spotify, a buffet of all of music, new and old. Tracks with fewer plays are fading into obscurity. And those with more plays are remaining in the cultural ether.
20 years have passed since No Diggity's release. Its popularity on Spotify, relative to every other song from the 90s, is a strong signal for whether it will be remembered by our children’s children.
posted by Rhaomi at 5:10 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Here Comes the Sun? Seriously?
Please view the documentary "The Concert for Bangladesh (1972)" paying particular attention to the performance of that particular song and the context it's played in, and decide why it shouldn't be a singular representation of music and humanity. Belay your outrage, ensign.
posted by Chitownfats at 5:14 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Please view the documentary "The Concert for Bangladesh (1972)" paying particular attention to the performance of that particular song and the context it's played in, and decide why it shouldn't be a singular representation of music and humanity. Belay your outrage, ensign.
posted by Chitownfats at 5:14 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Metafilter: It Resonates with Toddlers. Or Charles Manson.
posted by jonp72 at 5:18 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jonp72 at 5:18 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I thought it was already well-established that the Oscar Mayer Weiner Song would ultimately represent all 20th century music?
posted by um at 5:21 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by um at 5:21 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
We don't remember singers or musicians much beyond their lifetimes. We remember composers. So the names associated with rock music will be the prolific songwriters in their genres. Lennon/McCartney for sure, but also Dylan for folk-rock, Willie Dixon for blues-rock, etc.
posted by rocket88 at 5:34 PM on May 23, 2016
posted by rocket88 at 5:34 PM on May 23, 2016
We used to remember composers, but the transition from print to recordings changes everything. Based on what we've seen in the history of recorded history so far, it's Christmas songs that endure.
So it'll be one of "Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree", "Jingle Bell Rock", or
Nickelback, of course. (Dystopian? Me?)
...the Nickelback Christmas album. (They have one, right?)
posted by clawsoon at 5:46 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
So it'll be one of "Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree", "Jingle Bell Rock", or
Nickelback, of course. (Dystopian? Me?)
...the Nickelback Christmas album. (They have one, right?)
posted by clawsoon at 5:46 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
256: " TIL that Chuck Berry was black."
Did you just never see Back to the future or did you not make the connection?
posted by Mitheral at 5:48 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Did you just never see Back to the future or did you not make the connection?
posted by Mitheral at 5:48 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
.the Nickelback Christmas album. (They have one, right?)
no, not yet - featured tracks
"you can be my elf and climb onto my shelf"
"too much eggnog"
"if you wanna be a star, you gotta climb my tree"
medley - "we three kings of riders on the storm"
"i saw mommy 3#$*&^ santa claus"
"you do better without your two front teeth anyway"
"ave maria"
posted by pyramid termite at 5:56 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
no, not yet - featured tracks
"you can be my elf and climb onto my shelf"
"too much eggnog"
"if you wanna be a star, you gotta climb my tree"
medley - "we three kings of riders on the storm"
"i saw mommy 3#$*&^ santa claus"
"you do better without your two front teeth anyway"
"ave maria"
posted by pyramid termite at 5:56 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Zedcaster: "Do people even know the Turtles were named for Renaissance Italian artists?"
Wasn't there a link here lately where people were asked to name 4 renaissance artists (failing miserably), then asked to name the TMNT (which they succeeded at), then again asked to name the artists and still couldn't?
posted by Mitheral at 6:03 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wasn't there a link here lately where people were asked to name 4 renaissance artists (failing miserably), then asked to name the TMNT (which they succeeded at), then again asked to name the artists and still couldn't?
posted by Mitheral at 6:03 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
The obvious answer is Keith Richards simply because he will still be alive then. Unless nuclear weapons are used, that is.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 6:04 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 6:04 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Scholars have long theorized that the use of leavening agents was abruptly lost in the late 20th century, given rise to their greatest musical group of its time, the limp bizkit.
posted by dr_dank at 6:05 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by dr_dank at 6:05 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I thought it was especially if nuclear weapons are used.
posted by clawsoon at 6:06 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 6:06 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
actually, i'm going to make a serious prediction that harry partch will be the one 20th century musician that is going to be much well more known in 300 years
he was building the future of music and we just don't know it yet
posted by pyramid termite at 6:13 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
he was building the future of music and we just don't know it yet
posted by pyramid termite at 6:13 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
(like how The Beatles were magically the biggest band in the world, ignoring how The Ventures outsold the Beatles in Japan)
If you don't want to just read about Japanese Ventures-mania on Google books, here's a clip with Japanese dudes in red vests shredding surf guitar while a twistin' granny in a kimono watches on TV. Here's another one with some more tasty surf guitar. I think they might be from a movie circa 1965 called Eleki No Wakadaisho. If you're interested in delving into this music further, check out Takeshi Terauchi. He can sound like the Ventures all by himself!
posted by jonp72 at 6:18 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
If you don't want to just read about Japanese Ventures-mania on Google books, here's a clip with Japanese dudes in red vests shredding surf guitar while a twistin' granny in a kimono watches on TV. Here's another one with some more tasty surf guitar. I think they might be from a movie circa 1965 called Eleki No Wakadaisho. If you're interested in delving into this music further, check out Takeshi Terauchi. He can sound like the Ventures all by himself!
posted by jonp72 at 6:18 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
My money is on the band that used the E A B chord structure.
posted by CincyBlues at 6:22 PM on May 23, 2016
posted by CincyBlues at 6:22 PM on May 23, 2016
But a more important question is: "Who is the ONE writer from the declining years of the New York Times who will still be remembered in 300 years?"
Hint: Not Chuck Klosterman.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:41 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Hint: Not Chuck Klosterman.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:41 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
…it seems likely that they will consider Clara Rockmore and Kraftwerk to be the most important artists of the 20th century
I mean, “Wir fahr'n fahr'n fahr'n auf der Autobahn” is pretty much the 20th century right there.
posted by musicinmybrain at 6:48 PM on May 23, 2016
I mean, “Wir fahr'n fahr'n fahr'n auf der Autobahn” is pretty much the 20th century right there.
posted by musicinmybrain at 6:48 PM on May 23, 2016
Dr. Teeth and The Electric Mayhem, for both individual and band categories.
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:01 PM on May 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:01 PM on May 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
Disco-Tex and the Sex-O-Lettes.
I expect another Library of Alexandria to happen to the Internet and humans will only be able to piece together history from fragments...
posted by downtohisturtles at 7:02 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
I expect another Library of Alexandria to happen to the Internet and humans will only be able to piece together history from fragments...
posted by downtohisturtles at 7:02 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm not prepared to live in a world where there is a sudden re-appraisal of disco, where disco is crowned a misunderstood art form, and punk and all that followed from it is dismissed. Gah.
TIL NyTimes mobile doesn't seem to allow selecting and copying of text, or else I'd have a nice little pull quote. That's, well, that's decidedly not punk.
posted by Ghidorah at 7:13 PM on May 23, 2016
TIL NyTimes mobile doesn't seem to allow selecting and copying of text, or else I'd have a nice little pull quote. That's, well, that's decidedly not punk.
posted by Ghidorah at 7:13 PM on May 23, 2016
Thomas Friedman will be the NYT writer revered in the future
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:17 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:17 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
“Johnny B. Goode” is the only rock song on the Voyager disc, although a few other tunes were considered. “Here Comes the Sun” was a candidate,
Here Comes the Sun? Seriously?
Sagan was by all accounts a fan and was disappointed that Apple's lawyers prevented its inclusion due to royalty issues. Royalty issues. On a recording which -- if it is ever played -- will be heard untold eons in the future by extraterrestrials.
There is a good chance he just had it included anyway.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:54 PM on May 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
Here Comes the Sun? Seriously?
Sagan was by all accounts a fan and was disappointed that Apple's lawyers prevented its inclusion due to royalty issues. Royalty issues. On a recording which -- if it is ever played -- will be heard untold eons in the future by extraterrestrials.
There is a good chance he just had it included anyway.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:54 PM on May 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
> a recording which -- if it is ever played -- will be heard untold eons in the future by extraterrestrials.
Kinda' sets up the premise of Year Zero.
(That's the founder of Rhapsody taking the piss out of entertainment lawyers and byzantine copyright rules, although the book was a bit too ADHD for my taste.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:02 PM on May 23, 2016
Kinda' sets up the premise of Year Zero.
(That's the founder of Rhapsody taking the piss out of entertainment lawyers and byzantine copyright rules, although the book was a bit too ADHD for my taste.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:02 PM on May 23, 2016
Here Comes the Sun? Seriously?
A warning, for when Sol inevitably goes rogue.
posted by ckape at 8:06 PM on May 23, 2016
A warning, for when Sol inevitably goes rogue.
posted by ckape at 8:06 PM on May 23, 2016
Dylan may not be the greatest "rock star" but his lyrics will live on.................
posted by bjgeiger at 8:14 PM on May 23, 2016
posted by bjgeiger at 8:14 PM on May 23, 2016
This is a tough one. Can't decide between the Rutles or Spinal Tap.
posted by juiceCake at 9:30 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by juiceCake at 9:30 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Berry lacks depth as a writer though. It's the same song again and again.
posted by thelonius at 3:17 AM on May 24, 2016
posted by thelonius at 3:17 AM on May 24, 2016
Imagine Chuck Klosterman cornering you at a party and pontificating for hours about Dylan vs Elvis vs Chuck Berry vs Jimi vs Beatles vs Rolling Stones, oh god, the nightmares
Ok
posted by whir at 5:02 AM on May 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ok
posted by whir at 5:02 AM on May 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm not prepared to live in a world where there is a sudden re-appraisal of disco, where disco is crowned a misunderstood art form, and punk and all that followed from it is dismissed. Gah.
In the view of a musicologist like Reebee Garofalo, disco and punk are two 70's subcultures united in opposition to the mainstream culture.
There is a sudden re-appraisal of the disco-influenced pop artists ABBA. They've always sold well and they've always been completely ignored by critics, until just now when they've recently been re-assessed as important figures in 70's music history. So, that leads me to think that ChuckK is placing a risky bet when he dismisses 'Saturday Night Fever' so easily. That soundtrack is full of catchy interesting songs, and it's the kind of thing that could easily be re-discovered at any point in the future.
Speaking of J.S. Bach, wasn't he a minor figure until Mendelssohn made a big deal out of him 75 years after Bach died? It's possible that the prototypical rock star will, like Bach, be somebody from the '50s or '60s that hardly any of us has heard of.
Yeah, it's funny. I think that back in the 19th Century, virtually all Baroque music was dismissed as old-fashioned, stale, and out of date. The entire Genre was viewed as irrelevant. Before that, Bach wasn't the most famous artist of the time when he was alive, but he wasn't obscure either. I think that around early 1700's or so Telemann & Handel were more famous, but Bach did get some nods. Only now is he The-Baroque-Guy.
As far as relatively obscure (no big hits) artists from the late 20th century who go on to postumous recognition in the distant future, it's a fun game: my possible guesses: Velvet Underground; The Ramones; Syd Barrett; Television; etc. But you can see a skew here, for a buch of no-hitters they all were critic's darlings.
posted by ovvl at 6:35 AM on May 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
In the view of a musicologist like Reebee Garofalo, disco and punk are two 70's subcultures united in opposition to the mainstream culture.
There is a sudden re-appraisal of the disco-influenced pop artists ABBA. They've always sold well and they've always been completely ignored by critics, until just now when they've recently been re-assessed as important figures in 70's music history. So, that leads me to think that ChuckK is placing a risky bet when he dismisses 'Saturday Night Fever' so easily. That soundtrack is full of catchy interesting songs, and it's the kind of thing that could easily be re-discovered at any point in the future.
Speaking of J.S. Bach, wasn't he a minor figure until Mendelssohn made a big deal out of him 75 years after Bach died? It's possible that the prototypical rock star will, like Bach, be somebody from the '50s or '60s that hardly any of us has heard of.
Yeah, it's funny. I think that back in the 19th Century, virtually all Baroque music was dismissed as old-fashioned, stale, and out of date. The entire Genre was viewed as irrelevant. Before that, Bach wasn't the most famous artist of the time when he was alive, but he wasn't obscure either. I think that around early 1700's or so Telemann & Handel were more famous, but Bach did get some nods. Only now is he The-Baroque-Guy.
As far as relatively obscure (no big hits) artists from the late 20th century who go on to postumous recognition in the distant future, it's a fun game: my possible guesses: Velvet Underground; The Ramones; Syd Barrett; Television; etc. But you can see a skew here, for a buch of no-hitters they all were critic's darlings.
posted by ovvl at 6:35 AM on May 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
"puritanically straight crooner Pat Boone" should actually be the canonical description of the man. Although he did In a Metal Mood, so at least he has a sense of humor about it.
posted by aspersioncast at 6:41 AM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by aspersioncast at 6:41 AM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Which Rock Star Will Historians of the Future Remember?
Vote #1 Rick Astley.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 7:04 AM on May 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Vote #1 Rick Astley.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 7:04 AM on May 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm not prepared to live in a world where there is a sudden re-appraisal of disco, where disco is crowned a misunderstood art form
The critical reappraisal of disco has been going on for years. It's a much more significant genre, in terms of the technical development of music, than punk has ever been. And people have become increasingly aware of the racist, homophobic and misogynist under and overtones of much criticism of disco.
posted by howfar at 7:17 AM on May 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
The critical reappraisal of disco has been going on for years. It's a much more significant genre, in terms of the technical development of music, than punk has ever been. And people have become increasingly aware of the racist, homophobic and misogynist under and overtones of much criticism of disco.
posted by howfar at 7:17 AM on May 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
How did this thread get so long with no mention of Beatles 3000, which is basically fanfic for Chuck Klosterman?
posted by telegraph at 7:17 AM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by telegraph at 7:17 AM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Is no-one going to click on that Rick Astley link? Just asking ... for a friend.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 7:36 AM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by the quidnunc kid at 7:36 AM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Nice try.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:44 AM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:44 AM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
"...a world where there is a sudden re-appraisal of disco, where disco is crowned a misunderstood art form, and punk and all that followed from it is dismissed. Gah."
This is the most apt description of contemporary music I've read in a while.
posted by kevinbelt at 7:51 AM on May 24, 2016
This is the most apt description of contemporary music I've read in a while.
posted by kevinbelt at 7:51 AM on May 24, 2016
did you mean this rick astley link?
posted by pyramid termite at 8:27 AM on May 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 8:27 AM on May 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
What's going to last isn't going to be what has historical significance - it's going to be what people like to listen to and like to play.
I love the Sex Pistols, Dylan's fine, but it isn't going to be them. It's going to be The Beatles, as he discusses and then discards, because even though I am pretty sick to death of a lot of these songs by now, there will always be young people and guitars, but also because of their universality and depth presented in a simple way. I think "A Day In The Life" will still be surprising young music lovers in a century, the way it did me when I was five years old.
(Chuck Berry will the Pachelbel of the future with this one song, no doubt.)
I'm tempted to speculate on who else will last. I'd like to think that as long as there are young people and drugs, there will be Pink Floyd, but who knows?
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 8:31 AM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I love the Sex Pistols, Dylan's fine, but it isn't going to be them. It's going to be The Beatles, as he discusses and then discards, because even though I am pretty sick to death of a lot of these songs by now, there will always be young people and guitars, but also because of their universality and depth presented in a simple way. I think "A Day In The Life" will still be surprising young music lovers in a century, the way it did me when I was five years old.
(Chuck Berry will the Pachelbel of the future with this one song, no doubt.)
I'm tempted to speculate on who else will last. I'd like to think that as long as there are young people and drugs, there will be Pink Floyd, but who knows?
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 8:31 AM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think it'll be the dude with the fire guitar from Mad Max.
posted by joannemerriam at 9:51 AM on May 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by joannemerriam at 9:51 AM on May 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
This essay will presumably be included in CK's new book "What If We're Wrong: Thinking About the Present As If It Were the Past" which looks pretty interesting. Out June 7.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 9:57 AM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 9:57 AM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
wow i forgot all about Beatles 3000 until this thread.
posted by So You're Saying These Are Pants? at 1:20 PM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by So You're Saying These Are Pants? at 1:20 PM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
oh damn 9 comments up!
posted by So You're Saying These Are Pants? at 1:20 PM on May 24, 2016
posted by So You're Saying These Are Pants? at 1:20 PM on May 24, 2016
Thomas Friedman will be the NYT writer revered in the future
Goodness I hope not.
posted by Lyme Drop at 1:37 PM on May 24, 2016
Goodness I hope not.
posted by Lyme Drop at 1:37 PM on May 24, 2016
Zedcaster: "Do people even know the Turtles were named for Renaissance Italian artists?"
Flo and Eddie?
posted by Splunge at 3:07 PM on May 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
Flo and Eddie?
posted by Splunge at 3:07 PM on May 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
And people have become increasingly aware of the racist, homophobic and misogynist under and overtones of much criticism of disco.
obligatory rebuttal of this perhaps overly simplistic bit of revisionism.
posted by philip-random at 3:40 PM on May 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
obligatory rebuttal of this perhaps overly simplistic bit of revisionism.
posted by philip-random at 3:40 PM on May 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
And people have become increasingly aware of the racist, homophobic and misogynist under and overtones of much criticism of disco.
I'm sure that may have been for someone somewhere, but for us disco was rich white adults doing cocaine and dancing to music that didn't Rock. Easy Listening trying to be hip for your parents. To this day when the word Disco comes up it is usually accompanied by a picture of a white middle aged man.
I know now that the class image we had may not have been true, or not everywhere, but to us then if you could buy clothes like that and afford to go to clubs like that you were rich as far as we were concerned.
I wasn't a Disco hater even then, but the way it overwhelmed everything else for a moment is what I blame for the backlash. Like all music everywhere suddenly became Dubstep for a few years.
posted by bongo_x at 4:17 PM on May 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm sure that may have been for someone somewhere, but for us disco was rich white adults doing cocaine and dancing to music that didn't Rock. Easy Listening trying to be hip for your parents. To this day when the word Disco comes up it is usually accompanied by a picture of a white middle aged man.
I know now that the class image we had may not have been true, or not everywhere, but to us then if you could buy clothes like that and afford to go to clubs like that you were rich as far as we were concerned.
I wasn't a Disco hater even then, but the way it overwhelmed everything else for a moment is what I blame for the backlash. Like all music everywhere suddenly became Dubstep for a few years.
posted by bongo_x at 4:17 PM on May 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
I went to discos in my youth. I wore silly clothes. I did blow, I danced. I hated most of the music. But I liked to have sex. And that's how you did it back then.
posted by Splunge at 4:30 PM on May 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Splunge at 4:30 PM on May 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
I was of the age that "Disco sucks!" and we cool kids liked New Wave and Punk. But as I have aged I have come to realize that within Disco there is much Funk, whereas there is very little Funk in Punk Rock... and so, by simple math and basic psychohistorical operations it is easily provable that Punk is dead and Disco, insofar as it contains Funk, participates in the infinite oneness off all creation, timeless and pure.
So yeah, short story is I realize now, much too late, that Disco is pretty fucking good stuff.
posted by Meatbomb at 3:53 AM on May 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
So yeah, short story is I realize now, much too late, that Disco is pretty fucking good stuff.
posted by Meatbomb at 3:53 AM on May 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
I hated most of the music. But I liked to have sex. And that's how you did it back then.
as if rock and roll bars didn't exist in the 70s
posted by pyramid termite at 8:52 AM on May 25, 2016
as if rock and roll bars didn't exist in the 70s
posted by pyramid termite at 8:52 AM on May 25, 2016
hell, things were so loose in the 70s you could hook up by going to the LIBRARY for pete's sake ...
posted by pyramid termite at 8:53 AM on May 25, 2016
posted by pyramid termite at 8:53 AM on May 25, 2016
Heh. I was all over the place in the 70s and the 80s. Rock clubs? I was there. Libraries? Not so much. The 70s made me the person I am today. I'll bet that you have no clue about the times. Maybe you heard something. Maybe you think you were there. Oh hell no.
Ever did amyls in the Tunnel? Ever got fucked up in Studio? Ever watched a buddy have a freak out mixing coke and heroin? When they turn blue? Not shooting, just sniffing. A lot.
Pffft. Things were so loose. My ass.
posted by Splunge at 2:35 PM on May 26, 2016
Ever did amyls in the Tunnel? Ever got fucked up in Studio? Ever watched a buddy have a freak out mixing coke and heroin? When they turn blue? Not shooting, just sniffing. A lot.
Pffft. Things were so loose. My ass.
posted by Splunge at 2:35 PM on May 26, 2016
Ever did amyls in the Tunnel? Ever got fucked up in Studio? Ever watched a buddy have a freak out mixing coke and heroin? When they turn blue?
i thought you were bragging about getting laid, not how you cockblocked yourself with drugs
posted by pyramid termite at 2:48 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
i thought you were bragging about getting laid, not how you cockblocked yourself with drugs
posted by pyramid termite at 2:48 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Taken literally, the whole premise is absurd. Rock music historians of the future will spend a lot of time digging around for ever more obscure rock musicians, just as baroque music historians of the present are constantly digging up obscure and forgotten baroque composers. And music historians of the future will surely tell their students about the diversity of music in the era being studied just as music historians of the present do.
The question Klosterman really seems to be trying to answer is what rock musician non-historians of the future will associate with the genre. An interesting question, perhaps, but a different question from the one that he says he's answering.
posted by klausness at 4:32 AM on May 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
The question Klosterman really seems to be trying to answer is what rock musician non-historians of the future will associate with the genre. An interesting question, perhaps, but a different question from the one that he says he's answering.
posted by klausness at 4:32 AM on May 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Disco didn't die. It went away for a few years and quickly resurfaced under a different name. Nile Rodgers put some disco into everything he produced, and he produced a ton of '80s pop. By the mid '80s most popular music was back to being primarily dance music.
I hated it but, like Splunge in the '70s, I went to my share of dance clubs in the '80s because that's where the girls were.
I now have more respect for Nile Rogers but for a while he was the devil himself
posted by rocket88 at 9:06 AM on May 27, 2016
I hated it but, like Splunge in the '70s, I went to my share of dance clubs in the '80s because that's where the girls were.
I now have more respect for Nile Rogers but for a while he was the devil himself
posted by rocket88 at 9:06 AM on May 27, 2016
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posted by gucci mane at 1:31 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]