Belief in the unlikely: John Keely's schemes for free energy and more
May 26, 2016 7:20 PM Subscribe
John Ernst Worrell Keely was an inventor from Philadelphia who claimed to developed a machine that was motivated by a new and hitherto unknown force, based on the musical vibrations of tuning forks and that music could resonate with atoms or with the aether. His demonstrations were good enough to garner significant financial support and public interest, but he was debunked by Scientific American after his death in 1898. That hasn't stopped people from believing in sympathetic vibratory physics (Straight Dope forum discussion) and discussing Keely's other claims (on Pure Energy Systems Wiki). One of the most ardent supporters of Keely's theories is Jerry Decker, operator of KeelyNet, a long-running collection of articles and research on (free) energy, gravity control and other alternative sciences, with a section devoted to Keely.
In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics.
posted by adept256 at 7:26 PM on May 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 7:26 PM on May 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
Previously from PESwiki:
posted by filthy light thief at 7:27 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
- Rossi and Focardi's energy catalyzer (aka cold fusion)
- Proliferation, house by house - Home Nuclear Reactors
- 30-Year Laptop Battery? - Betavoltaic Batteries
- Salt water burns - new energy source
- The Tesla Roadster - "An old Tesla rumour is that he made his own back in the 1930s"
- Dellschau + Sonora Aero Club Mysteries - "There were sightings of these 'airships', tenuously linked back to the club, up to the end of the 20th century."
posted by filthy light thief at 7:27 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Gots to be a connection (or perhaps a sympathetic vibration in the aether) to ye olde Harmonic Convergence, right?
Ah, that's new-age phooey. This is proper vintage woo, kept alive thanks to a mailing list turned BBS turned website, plus occasional conferences.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:30 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ah, that's new-age phooey. This is proper vintage woo, kept alive thanks to a mailing list turned BBS turned website, plus occasional conferences.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:30 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
John Ernst Worrell Keely.
Ernest P. Worrell
I hope that's where Varney got the name.
posted by downtohisturtles at 7:41 PM on May 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Ernest P. Worrell
I hope that's where Varney got the name.
posted by downtohisturtles at 7:41 PM on May 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm really tempted to attend the Global Breakthrough Energy Movement Conference happening this weekend. It's about 30 minutes from my house. It's been advertised on the wingnut talk radio station I'm addicted to (fluoride, chemtrails, Obummer/gunzzzz, Jade Helm, secret lizard people, Harp, new world order, juice boxes have chemicals that make your kids gay, iodine, all natural boner pills, smart meters, etc etc).
People have been saying there's going to be more information about free energy, pure energy, orgone energy, etc. I can't find out how much it costs to attend in person, but you can buy access to the livestream for $65.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 8:14 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
People have been saying there's going to be more information about free energy, pure energy, orgone energy, etc. I can't find out how much it costs to attend in person, but you can buy access to the livestream for $65.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 8:14 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Found it, passes are $295.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 8:16 PM on May 26, 2016
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 8:16 PM on May 26, 2016
the wingnut talk radio station I'm addicted to (fluoride, chemtrails, Obummer/gunzzzz, Jade Helm, secret lizard people, Harp, new world order, juice boxes have chemicals that make your kids gay, iodine, all natural boner pills, smart meters, etc etc).
Pray tell what is this show? It's been many years since I listened to Art Bell and I miss it.
posted by bongo_x at 8:25 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Pray tell what is this show? It's been many years since I listened to Art Bell and I miss it.
posted by bongo_x at 8:25 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Only $295? That's highway robbery! Think of all the money you'll save from the breakthrough technology you'll see! You're making off like a bandit at that price.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:28 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by filthy light thief at 8:28 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
the wingnut talk radio station I'm addicted to (fluoride, chemtrails, Obummer/gunzzzz, Jade Helm, secret lizard people, Harp, new world order, juice boxes have chemicals that make your kids gay, iodine, all natural boner pills, smart meters, etc etc).
Pray tell what is this show? It's been many years since I listened to Art Bell and I miss it..
It could still be Coast to Coast AM. It's still around, but it's been hosted George Noory ever since Art Bell died. The whole tenor of the show is really different, and I eventually got weirded out by it in a way that (somehow) never happened with Art Bell. I think it got more of a weird right wing vibe, but maybe I just didn't notice as often as before.
(Art Bell is part of the reason my partner and I got together - she was really into the show, and we tuned in one night to hear someone going on about "stadiums full of blood," whatever that means. I was dazzled. Reader, we're getting married.)
posted by teponaztli at 9:23 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Pray tell what is this show? It's been many years since I listened to Art Bell and I miss it..
It could still be Coast to Coast AM. It's still around, but it's been hosted George Noory ever since Art Bell died. The whole tenor of the show is really different, and I eventually got weirded out by it in a way that (somehow) never happened with Art Bell. I think it got more of a weird right wing vibe, but maybe I just didn't notice as often as before.
(Art Bell is part of the reason my partner and I got together - she was really into the show, and we tuned in one night to hear someone going on about "stadiums full of blood," whatever that means. I was dazzled. Reader, we're getting married.)
posted by teponaztli at 9:23 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
I just looked it up and I don't think Art Bell is dead. Apparently he had some other shows afterwards, and was not happy with the Right Wing political direction Coast to Coast AM has taken.
posted by bongo_x at 9:56 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by bongo_x at 9:56 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Isn't this idea one of the underpinning conceits in Jasper fforde's Shades of Grey?
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:03 AM on May 27, 2016
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:03 AM on May 27, 2016
Unless you understand the laws of nuclear physics, a Nuclear Reactor seems to define the laws of thermodynamics, as the mass lost is unimaginably small... it may be that there are other sources of energy that could be tapped... you have to admit it is possible, if unlikely.
I think that it is far more likely that some very good energy conservation and distribution mechanisms have been created, then black-shelved never to see the light of day, because we need to keep the demand side of things pulling on supply to keep certain capitalist systems going.
The big institutions of the world have squandered most of their credibility, news organizations no longer even try to find the truth, is it any wonder that the people are looking elsewhere for it, even though it's unlikely to be out there?
At some point, we're going to have to either figure out fusion, go big on fission (thorium is way better than the Weapons System driven Uranium mess we have as a legacy), or cut way back on the complexity of our society.
We're also going to have to figure out how to keep most of the people of the world busy when they find themselves unemployable thanks to automation, and globalization.
We live in interesting times.
posted by MikeWarot at 2:36 AM on May 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think that it is far more likely that some very good energy conservation and distribution mechanisms have been created, then black-shelved never to see the light of day, because we need to keep the demand side of things pulling on supply to keep certain capitalist systems going.
The big institutions of the world have squandered most of their credibility, news organizations no longer even try to find the truth, is it any wonder that the people are looking elsewhere for it, even though it's unlikely to be out there?
At some point, we're going to have to either figure out fusion, go big on fission (thorium is way better than the Weapons System driven Uranium mess we have as a legacy), or cut way back on the complexity of our society.
We're also going to have to figure out how to keep most of the people of the world busy when they find themselves unemployable thanks to automation, and globalization.
We live in interesting times.
posted by MikeWarot at 2:36 AM on May 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
In related news, these guys are still at it -- they're now selling a free energy USB charger for $1200. I'd link to the forum where some guy who has one has tried to make it do something , but I don't remember the URL right now and the whole story is just too sad.
(well, bits are pretty funny, I especially liked the bit where the first batch didn't work because they had forgotten to put batteries in it, and QA is apparently not a thing when you do free energy stuff...)
posted by effbot at 2:57 AM on May 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
(well, bits are pretty funny, I especially liked the bit where the first batch didn't work because they had forgotten to put batteries in it, and QA is apparently not a thing when you do free energy stuff...)
posted by effbot at 2:57 AM on May 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Found it, passes are $295.
Crank out a sovereign citizen payment warrant and you're in! Be sure to write "no joinder" in your best calligraphy.
posted by dr_dank at 3:04 AM on May 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Crank out a sovereign citizen payment warrant and you're in! Be sure to write "no joinder" in your best calligraphy.
posted by dr_dank at 3:04 AM on May 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
At the risk of sounding like someone who hasn't got a clue about physics (which, incidentally, I am), I've always wondered why gravity can't be turned into a source of energy.
posted by Captain Fetid at 4:19 AM on May 27, 2016
posted by Captain Fetid at 4:19 AM on May 27, 2016
It looks like the site is also spewing bigotry and Trump support. Gross.
posted by Salamandrous at 4:40 AM on May 27, 2016
posted by Salamandrous at 4:40 AM on May 27, 2016
I've always wondered why gravity can't be turned into a source of energy.
Well, there's things like pendulum clocks and hydroelectric plants that definitely works, only problem is that they're not really driven by gravity, see e.g. here for some background.
posted by effbot at 4:57 AM on May 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well, there's things like pendulum clocks and hydroelectric plants that definitely works, only problem is that they're not really driven by gravity, see e.g. here for some background.
posted by effbot at 4:57 AM on May 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
At the atomic level, gravity is 10^40 times weaker than electromagnetism. So there's not much to harness unless you have planet-sized masses to play with. I guess tidal-based generators would qualify, since the depend on the mass of the moon to move water.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:08 AM on May 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:08 AM on May 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
You can harness gravity to create energy by converting potential energy to kinetic energy. That's how hydroelectric power plants work; you make the water go over a cliff (or use a natural waterfall) and as it falls, you extract the kinetic energy with turbines. Gravity provides the kinetic energy that you extract.
The problem is just that outside of waterfalls, there aren't a lot of big sources of natural kinetic energy lying around. Most things on Earth have settled into something close to their rest state, gravitationally speaking. The water cycle keeps waterfalls going more or less indefinitely (thanks, Sun!) but rocks and things don't tend to go back up once they've fallen down. You could hoist things up high and drop them, but you'd only get back the energy that you put in when you hoisted them, and not even all of it.
Tides are another source of gravitational energy that we've been working on harnessing for a while now, but that energy is so much more diffuse that it's a lot more challenging to do it in a useful way, so there hasn't been as much success there.
If you're talking about the gravitational energy that's being used to stick you and your chair to the ground right now, the answer is that it's just not available in sort of the same way that the chemical energy from combustion isn't available in a pile of wet ashes. Outside of someone knocking the floor out from under you, the energy that's pushing you into the ground isn't going to be doing any work. You're in a rest state, just like coal is in a rest state after it's been burned to ash.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:37 AM on May 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
The problem is just that outside of waterfalls, there aren't a lot of big sources of natural kinetic energy lying around. Most things on Earth have settled into something close to their rest state, gravitationally speaking. The water cycle keeps waterfalls going more or less indefinitely (thanks, Sun!) but rocks and things don't tend to go back up once they've fallen down. You could hoist things up high and drop them, but you'd only get back the energy that you put in when you hoisted them, and not even all of it.
Tides are another source of gravitational energy that we've been working on harnessing for a while now, but that energy is so much more diffuse that it's a lot more challenging to do it in a useful way, so there hasn't been as much success there.
If you're talking about the gravitational energy that's being used to stick you and your chair to the ground right now, the answer is that it's just not available in sort of the same way that the chemical energy from combustion isn't available in a pile of wet ashes. Outside of someone knocking the floor out from under you, the energy that's pushing you into the ground isn't going to be doing any work. You're in a rest state, just like coal is in a rest state after it's been burned to ash.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:37 AM on May 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
Folks, tampering with the resonant energies you can collect through tuning fork machinery is *not safe*. I thought we documented this pretty thoroughly? The long term effects to human health could be described as 'significantly deleterious' at best.
posted by FatherDagon at 7:03 AM on May 27, 2016
posted by FatherDagon at 7:03 AM on May 27, 2016
I think that it is far more likely that some very good energy conservation and distribution mechanisms have been created, then black-shelved never to see the light of dayWe live in a world where manufacturing and selling an incandescent light bulb will land you in prison. This seems...unlikely.
posted by Hatashran at 7:10 AM on May 27, 2016
teponaztli: It could still be Coast to Coast AM. It's still around, but it's been hosted George Noory ever since Art Bell died. The whole tenor of the show is really different, and I eventually got weirded out by it in a way that (somehow) never happened with Art Bell. I think it got more of a weird right wing vibe, but maybe I just didn't notice as often as before.
bongo_x: I just looked it up and I don't think Art Bell is dead. Apparently he had some other shows afterwards, and was not happy with the Right Wing political direction Coast to Coast AM has taken.
Salamandrous: It looks like the site is also spewing bigotry and Trump support. Gross.
Yeah, I'm not sure how "alternative science" and Right Wing absurdity go hand in hand, but they do, and the front page of KeelyNet is infested with it, too. But as noted in blinking text on KeelyNet.com, "...No Like? Just skip what doesn't interest you..." (But it can be hard to look past some of the raging fear/hate towards key Democrats.)
Probably worth a post of it's own: Trust In Science Has Declined Among Conservatives - Why? (Answer: a number of reasons, in part because science is seen as restricting businesses now, where it used to be seen as being in the pocket of the government and not independent, and then there was less trust on the left.)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:13 AM on May 27, 2016
bongo_x: I just looked it up and I don't think Art Bell is dead. Apparently he had some other shows afterwards, and was not happy with the Right Wing political direction Coast to Coast AM has taken.
Salamandrous: It looks like the site is also spewing bigotry and Trump support. Gross.
Yeah, I'm not sure how "alternative science" and Right Wing absurdity go hand in hand, but they do, and the front page of KeelyNet is infested with it, too. But as noted in blinking text on KeelyNet.com, "...No Like? Just skip what doesn't interest you..." (But it can be hard to look past some of the raging fear/hate towards key Democrats.)
Probably worth a post of it's own: Trust In Science Has Declined Among Conservatives - Why? (Answer: a number of reasons, in part because science is seen as restricting businesses now, where it used to be seen as being in the pocket of the government and not independent, and then there was less trust on the left.)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:13 AM on May 27, 2016
The big institutions of the world have squandered most of their credibility, news organizations no longer even try to find the truth, is it any wonder that the people are looking elsewhere for it, even though it's unlikely to be out there?
The military industrial complex has taken over. Truth is classified. You and I and the other 6 billion peasants are a nuisance at best and potentially an enemy that will have to be destroyed.
The engine that drives all of this is military secrecy. I wonder how much the tickets to this other conference in Bastrop were.
posted by bukvich at 8:35 AM on May 27, 2016
The military industrial complex has taken over. Truth is classified. You and I and the other 6 billion peasants are a nuisance at best and potentially an enemy that will have to be destroyed.
The engine that drives all of this is military secrecy. I wonder how much the tickets to this other conference in Bastrop were.
posted by bukvich at 8:35 AM on May 27, 2016
Couldn't it also be that science tends to challenge the status-quo more than it used to (especially now that scientific progress seems to be speeding up)?
posted by Captain Fetid at 12:14 PM on May 27, 2016
posted by Captain Fetid at 12:14 PM on May 27, 2016
bongo_x: I just looked it up and I don't think Art Bell is dead. Apparently he had some other shows afterwards, and was not happy with the Right Wing political direction Coast to Coast AM has taken.
I had no idea. For years I've thought he was dead. I'm sure I read some conspiracy theory about his death and didn't realize I was being trolled. I guess, you know, you stare into the weirdo abyss and it stares back.
posted by teponaztli at 2:27 AM on May 28, 2016
I had no idea. For years I've thought he was dead. I'm sure I read some conspiracy theory about his death and didn't realize I was being trolled. I guess, you know, you stare into the weirdo abyss and it stares back.
posted by teponaztli at 2:27 AM on May 28, 2016
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posted by mwhybark at 7:24 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]