So when does it start?
June 5, 2016 7:54 PM Subscribe
Why Ramadan Starts on a Different Day Every Year If you've always wondered, you're in good company... with the estimated 1.6 billion Muslims around the world. But this year, perhaps there may be some kind of agreement, as Islamic scholars agree on a shared lunar calendar for Muslim world. In the meantime, it's Monday in many parts of the world, and marks the 1st day of Ramadan. Here are some countries where Muslims will be fasting the longest. Should you fast the whole length of the day in such places though? But what if you're not a Muslim; just a caring, considerate person. Is there anything you should be doing so you don't come across as insensitive to your fasting friends? According to Saeed Ahmed: Short answer: No.
Long answer: No. But you can earn some cool points if you follow these 10 tips. Other tips in solidarity. [Previously]
I don't live in an especially Muslim area, but even still, so many hypoglycemic Muslims seem to call EMS this time of year. Last year I had the same sad diabetic teenage girl ride the ambulance to see me 3 days in a row. "Ma'am, please don't take your long-acting insulin at bedtime if it will have nothing to act on during the day..."
posted by killdevil at 8:23 PM on June 5, 2016
posted by killdevil at 8:23 PM on June 5, 2016
You're really not supposed to fast (according to hadith and both sunni and shia sharia law!) if you have a medical condition where you will be harmed by it, are elderly, pregnant, nursing, still growing (children and teenagers), and a bunch of other exemptions... But people do it anyways to show how pious they are and so they won't face disapproval from their family and neighbors.
posted by thewalrus at 9:07 PM on June 5, 2016 [25 favorites]
posted by thewalrus at 9:07 PM on June 5, 2016 [25 favorites]
Ramadan mubarak!
posted by ChuraChura at 9:17 PM on June 5, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by ChuraChura at 9:17 PM on June 5, 2016 [4 favorites]
You're really not supposed to fast (according to hadith and both sunni and shia sharia law!) if you have a medical condition where you will be harmed by it, are elderly, pregnant, nursing, still growing (children and teenagers), and a bunch of other exemptions...
It's like out Yogi-ing your Boulder, Colorado neighbors. It's gotta stop!
posted by alex_skazat at 9:54 PM on June 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's like out Yogi-ing your Boulder, Colorado neighbors. It's gotta stop!
posted by alex_skazat at 9:54 PM on June 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
It starts on the same day each year.
That would be 1 Ramadan. (Just as the Islamic New Year is always 1 Muharram).
posted by plep at 10:24 PM on June 5, 2016 [15 favorites]
That would be 1 Ramadan. (Just as the Islamic New Year is always 1 Muharram).
posted by plep at 10:24 PM on June 5, 2016 [15 favorites]
I have a Muslim friend who used to schedule business trips during Ramadan which I guess isn't cheating.
posted by GuyZero at 10:36 PM on June 5, 2016
posted by GuyZero at 10:36 PM on June 5, 2016
I have an online meeting with a colleague in the Middle East today. Yesterday he sent me a note asking to reschedule it because of shorter Ramadan office hours over there. What struck me was that his request was not "Ramadan starts tomorrow - can we meet an hour later?" but rather "It is due to be confirmed by this evening that Ramadan starts tomorrow - can we meet an hour later?" - no crescent moon; no rescheduling. Outlook does not understand this nuance.
posted by rongorongo at 10:43 PM on June 5, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by rongorongo at 10:43 PM on June 5, 2016 [8 favorites]
Outlook does not understand this nuance.
That's because Outlook uses the Kuwaiti algorithm.
posted by plep at 11:02 PM on June 5, 2016 [7 favorites]
That's because Outlook uses the Kuwaiti algorithm.
posted by plep at 11:02 PM on June 5, 2016 [7 favorites]
My favorite aspect of Ramadan is how it cycles through the calendar year over the course of a lifetime. It takes ~33 years for a complete cycle, so an individual may get to experience 3 of them if they are very fortunate. The 12 year Chinese lunar new year cycle is another example. Long cycle patterns such as these offer an offbeat opportunity to reflect on the nature of human existence. In my opinion, the paucity of long cycle patterns in western culture is one of it's inconspicuous shortcomings.
posted by fairmettle at 3:01 AM on June 6, 2016 [25 favorites]
posted by fairmettle at 3:01 AM on June 6, 2016 [25 favorites]
It takes ~33 years for a complete cycle, so an individual may get to experience 3 of them if they are very fortunate
I was thinking about this very thing during a conversation with the Syrian owner of a local dive last year, and wondered out loud whether those 30-odd years might have corresponded to about one lifetime, back in the early years of Islam. He quite adamantly rejected the idea: was I not aware that the ancients lived much longer lives than we do, some of them multi-centenary?
I've been wondering about local average life-spans in those parts of the world ever since.
the paucity of long cycle patterns in western culture is one of it's inconspicuous shortcomings.
Agree; seems to me the fact that our cyclical lock-in maxes out at annual/seasonal is likely part of that deep conditioning inherited from when we bowled ourselves over by inventing agriculture.
posted by progosk at 3:28 AM on June 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
I was thinking about this very thing during a conversation with the Syrian owner of a local dive last year, and wondered out loud whether those 30-odd years might have corresponded to about one lifetime, back in the early years of Islam. He quite adamantly rejected the idea: was I not aware that the ancients lived much longer lives than we do, some of them multi-centenary?
I've been wondering about local average life-spans in those parts of the world ever since.
the paucity of long cycle patterns in western culture is one of it's inconspicuous shortcomings.
Agree; seems to me the fact that our cyclical lock-in maxes out at annual/seasonal is likely part of that deep conditioning inherited from when we bowled ourselves over by inventing agriculture.
posted by progosk at 3:28 AM on June 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
It takes ~33 years for a complete cycle, so an individual may get to experience 3 of them if they are very fortunate
O/T but the Maya are also big fans of these longer cycles: in human life terms, of 13 years duration. The first one for childhood, the second for youth, third for parenthood, etc. You become an elder at 52 and (I understand) start to cycle back to to the more child like state after 65. Roughly two Ramadan cycles then.
posted by rongorongo at 3:49 AM on June 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
O/T but the Maya are also big fans of these longer cycles: in human life terms, of 13 years duration. The first one for childhood, the second for youth, third for parenthood, etc. You become an elder at 52 and (I understand) start to cycle back to to the more child like state after 65. Roughly two Ramadan cycles then.
posted by rongorongo at 3:49 AM on June 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
The 12 year Chinese lunar new year cycle is another example.
The Chinese lunisolar (not the same as lunar - the Chinese New Year depends on the winter solstice as well as the new moon) cycle combines a terrestrial branch (the 12-animal 'zodiac' everyone knows about) with a celestial branch (5 elements - water, gold, fire, wood and earth - corresponding with each of the 5 visible extraterrestrial planets). E.g. year of the golden dragon, year of the water monkey etc.
12 * 5 = a 60 year cycle, so an average human will go through 1 (and a bit) of these in their lifetimes.
posted by plep at 4:39 AM on June 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
The Chinese lunisolar (not the same as lunar - the Chinese New Year depends on the winter solstice as well as the new moon) cycle combines a terrestrial branch (the 12-animal 'zodiac' everyone knows about) with a celestial branch (5 elements - water, gold, fire, wood and earth - corresponding with each of the 5 visible extraterrestrial planets). E.g. year of the golden dragon, year of the water monkey etc.
12 * 5 = a 60 year cycle, so an average human will go through 1 (and a bit) of these in their lifetimes.
posted by plep at 4:39 AM on June 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
12 * 5 = a 60 year cycle, so an average human will go through 1 (and a bit) of these in their lifetimes.
2 of them if they are very fortunate. ;)
posted by fairmettle at 4:46 AM on June 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
2 of them if they are very fortunate. ;)
posted by fairmettle at 4:46 AM on June 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
In a Deutsche Welle radio story last week about Druze, many sects of Christians, and Sunni and Shia Muslims celebrating Maryam / the Virgin Mary together in Lebanon (full episode) one of the people interviewed stated that in Lebanon some Christians observe Ramadan and some Muslims observe Lent.
posted by XMLicious at 5:05 AM on June 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 5:05 AM on June 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
12 * 5 = a 60 year cycle, so an average human will go through 1 (and a bit) of these in their lifetimes.
2 of them if they are very fortunate. ;)
I don't know, watching my father rapidly withering at 79 and having seen my ex FIL have all sorts of trouble with life in general at 93, I'd really not consider myself fortunate should I live that long...
Cool post, thanks! Every year come Ramadan I think to myself "wasn't it snowing/hot as balls/etc last year during Ramadan? And this year it's hot as balls/snowing/whatevs, what gives?"
posted by nevercalm at 5:16 AM on June 6, 2016
2 of them if they are very fortunate. ;)
I don't know, watching my father rapidly withering at 79 and having seen my ex FIL have all sorts of trouble with life in general at 93, I'd really not consider myself fortunate should I live that long...
Cool post, thanks! Every year come Ramadan I think to myself "wasn't it snowing/hot as balls/etc last year during Ramadan? And this year it's hot as balls/snowing/whatevs, what gives?"
posted by nevercalm at 5:16 AM on June 6, 2016
Is it possible for a non-Muslim to come along to iftar some time?
Like is there a tradition or anything of that or is it totally a family time?
I'm not Muslim, but I think Ramadam is a pretty cool religious festival. I like the ideas behind it. But also rather tragically I don't have any Muslim friends to ask.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:20 AM on June 6, 2016
Like is there a tradition or anything of that or is it totally a family time?
I'm not Muslim, but I think Ramadam is a pretty cool religious festival. I like the ideas behind it. But also rather tragically I don't have any Muslim friends to ask.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:20 AM on June 6, 2016
Or I could just RTFA
"4. ... but you can join us for Iftar"
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:21 AM on June 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
"4. ... but you can join us for Iftar"
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:21 AM on June 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
My favorite aspect of Ramadan is how it cycles through the calendar year over the course of a lifetime.
Digging into this, you could also say that the Gregorian Calendar cycles through the (Islamic) calendar year over the course of a lifetime. That is also a long cycle. Also if you take the date of Easter (lunisolar, but combined with the 7 day week cycle). It all depends on your reference point.
One thing that's really interesting about studying different calendar systems is how arbitrary they all are - some are solar (one of two definitions - either equinox to equinox to related to the position of the stars), some are lunar, some try to combine them both, some try to combine them both but throw in the week cycle as well... Humans have long tried to master time, but as the lunar month doesn't fit perfectly into (either definition) of the solar year, let alone other cycles like the 7 day week, they never quite succeed. There isn't even universal agreement on what a day is... (the orbit of the Earth around its axis? or related to the angle of the Moon?).
Btw one interesting aspect of lunisolar calendars (e.g. calendars which start with 'first full moon after spring equinox' or 'second new moon after winter solstice) is that they repeat every 19 year - another cycle, the Metonic cycle. Because 19 solar years fits into 235 lunar (synodic) months - i.e. the shortest time when two whole numbers of these cycles fit together. So a human can have 4 or 5 of these in their lifetime - one for youth, one for maturity, one for middle age, one (or more if lucky/unlucky) for old age.
posted by plep at 5:32 AM on June 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
Digging into this, you could also say that the Gregorian Calendar cycles through the (Islamic) calendar year over the course of a lifetime. That is also a long cycle. Also if you take the date of Easter (lunisolar, but combined with the 7 day week cycle). It all depends on your reference point.
One thing that's really interesting about studying different calendar systems is how arbitrary they all are - some are solar (one of two definitions - either equinox to equinox to related to the position of the stars), some are lunar, some try to combine them both, some try to combine them both but throw in the week cycle as well... Humans have long tried to master time, but as the lunar month doesn't fit perfectly into (either definition) of the solar year, let alone other cycles like the 7 day week, they never quite succeed. There isn't even universal agreement on what a day is... (the orbit of the Earth around its axis? or related to the angle of the Moon?).
Btw one interesting aspect of lunisolar calendars (e.g. calendars which start with 'first full moon after spring equinox' or 'second new moon after winter solstice) is that they repeat every 19 year - another cycle, the Metonic cycle. Because 19 solar years fits into 235 lunar (synodic) months - i.e. the shortest time when two whole numbers of these cycles fit together. So a human can have 4 or 5 of these in their lifetime - one for youth, one for maturity, one for middle age, one (or more if lucky/unlucky) for old age.
posted by plep at 5:32 AM on June 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
I was thinking about this very thing during a conversation with the Syrian owner of a local dive last year, and wondered out loud whether those 30-odd years might have corresponded to about one lifetime, back in the early years of Islam.
I agree with the Syrian owner, but for a different reason: the 33 year cycle comes from the difference between the length of the solar year and the lunar year, which multiplied by 33 comes to a approximately whole solar (tropical) year. But this is just a coincidence; the solar year just wasn't a reference point for the calendar makers (the Hebrew Calendar was lunisolar, not solar). You could use the same logic in reverse of course.
There may on the other hand be something to the logic of using a lunar calendar in an equatorial region where the weather is hot and dry all year round; moon phases seem like the logical way to measure time.
posted by plep at 5:52 AM on June 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
I agree with the Syrian owner, but for a different reason: the 33 year cycle comes from the difference between the length of the solar year and the lunar year, which multiplied by 33 comes to a approximately whole solar (tropical) year. But this is just a coincidence; the solar year just wasn't a reference point for the calendar makers (the Hebrew Calendar was lunisolar, not solar). You could use the same logic in reverse of course.
There may on the other hand be something to the logic of using a lunar calendar in an equatorial region where the weather is hot and dry all year round; moon phases seem like the logical way to measure time.
posted by plep at 5:52 AM on June 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
Is it possible for a non-Muslim to come along to iftar some time?
If invited, yes, absolutely.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:54 AM on June 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
If invited, yes, absolutely.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:54 AM on June 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
I didn't know that drinking water was included in Ramadan daytime-fasting. That is intense. I would be chugging bottles of electrolyte mix in the minutes before sunrise.
posted by anthill at 6:40 AM on June 6, 2016
posted by anthill at 6:40 AM on June 6, 2016
I ended up eating at a Lebanese place run by Muslims during Ramadan a few years ago. It was during the day and they were doing their prep for Iftar, but they were happy to make our meal and serve us the repeat glasses of water we requested. I know that in one of the articles, a person interviewed said that Ramadan was fun, but it seems to me to be above and beyond to not only prep your meal for the night, but also to serve others food while you have to abstain. It impressed the hell out of me.
posted by Hactar at 6:48 AM on June 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Hactar at 6:48 AM on June 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
The Muslim Students Association at my undergrad had a "fastathon" during Ramadan where non-Muslim students could sign up to fast for a day and other students and local businesses would donate to the St. Louis food bank for every fasting student. Then there was a delicious meal for Iftar. It was one of my favorite events in a school which was often kind of segregated by group, without a lot of visibility or support for Muslim students.
posted by ChuraChura at 7:41 AM on June 6, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by ChuraChura at 7:41 AM on June 6, 2016 [9 favorites]
I've been lucky to work in very culturally/ethnically diverse places. A couple of years ago, a Hindu colleague and her husband were celebrating their new home. There was an incredible buffet of marvelous food. Over a dozen of us from work came to celebrate with them. I was a bit surprised to see a colleague, who is a devout Muslim, there with her two children as it was during Ramadan, and I would have thought the buffet would be very difficult to be around. But Rasha said no, it was okay, she really enjoyed the company and fellowship, and wanted to wish our colleague well in her new home.
Then she said that as a Muslim wife and mother the hardest part of Ramadan was actually the loss of sleep. We're in Canada and Ramadan has been during the summer for the past few years, meaning a 18+ hour fast. But that means that she was breaking her fast at about 10 pm at the time, cleaning up, putting away dishes, etc., lucky to get to bed before midnight, then up before 4 am, to prepare the before-sunrise meal, eat, pray, clean up, maybe grab a nap and then get ready to come to her office job for 8 am--which she did, brilliantly and cheerfully, for another 8 hours without food or water. Then home, deal with the kids and prepare a simple supper for them (they were too young to fast), prepare and serve Iftar, try to get to bed before midnight, and so on for 30 days. And of course, there are the other restraints of Ramadan, not just the fasting. I admired her immensely. I would be a miserable, foul-tempered hot mess under those conditions. My Muslim colleagues have been unfailingly cheerful, pleasant, and hard-working during Ramadan.
posted by angiep at 8:15 AM on June 6, 2016 [7 favorites]
Then she said that as a Muslim wife and mother the hardest part of Ramadan was actually the loss of sleep. We're in Canada and Ramadan has been during the summer for the past few years, meaning a 18+ hour fast. But that means that she was breaking her fast at about 10 pm at the time, cleaning up, putting away dishes, etc., lucky to get to bed before midnight, then up before 4 am, to prepare the before-sunrise meal, eat, pray, clean up, maybe grab a nap and then get ready to come to her office job for 8 am--which she did, brilliantly and cheerfully, for another 8 hours without food or water. Then home, deal with the kids and prepare a simple supper for them (they were too young to fast), prepare and serve Iftar, try to get to bed before midnight, and so on for 30 days. And of course, there are the other restraints of Ramadan, not just the fasting. I admired her immensely. I would be a miserable, foul-tempered hot mess under those conditions. My Muslim colleagues have been unfailingly cheerful, pleasant, and hard-working during Ramadan.
posted by angiep at 8:15 AM on June 6, 2016 [7 favorites]
And of course, there are the other restraints of Ramadan, not just the fasting. I admired her immensely. I would be a miserable, foul-tempered hot mess under those conditions. My Muslim colleagues have been unfailingly cheerful, pleasant, and hard-working during Ramadan.
You can get kind of a high from fasting, I've found.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:26 AM on June 6, 2016
You can get kind of a high from fasting, I've found.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:26 AM on June 6, 2016
I didn't know that drinking water was included in Ramadan daytime-fasting. That is intense. I would be chugging bottles of electrolyte mix in the minutes before sunrise.
It's even more odd when considering the temperatures in most of the Muslim world. It's strange that no clerics throughout the past centuries have just said "Fuck it, water's allowed anytime"
posted by ymgve at 9:00 AM on June 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's even more odd when considering the temperatures in most of the Muslim world. It's strange that no clerics throughout the past centuries have just said "Fuck it, water's allowed anytime"
posted by ymgve at 9:00 AM on June 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
Speaking as someone who is still groggy from an impromptu nap, I can confirm that sleep is the bigger challenge.
posted by cendawanita at 9:01 AM on June 6, 2016
posted by cendawanita at 9:01 AM on June 6, 2016
I would love a big wall calendar that had all of the major calendars aligned, so I'd see today's date in Georgian, Julian, Chinese, Jewish, and Islamic calendars (and others!) on the same box, with color coded holidays running along the bottom. Even if you don't celebrate a holiday, it's neat to know it's going on. And people who celebrate Ramadan or Chinese New Year or Yom Kippur really appreciate it when you can demonstrate you have a clue.
posted by blnkfrnk at 9:35 AM on June 6, 2016
posted by blnkfrnk at 9:35 AM on June 6, 2016
Aw, yeah! Ramadan mubarak, Muslim mefites!
posted by Bob Regular at 9:40 AM on June 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Bob Regular at 9:40 AM on June 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
I would love a big wall calendar that had all of the major calendars aligned, so I'd see today's date in Georgian, Julian, Chinese, Jewish, and Islamic calendars (and others!) on the same box, with color coded holidays running along the bottom.
One of the ultimate programming challenges in my view. You wouldn't be the first to attempt this (hem hem).
You can start with this book which has some useful bits of code.
This is a brave attempt at implementation using JavaScript. Just convert to a wallchart.
posted by plep at 9:45 AM on June 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
One of the ultimate programming challenges in my view. You wouldn't be the first to attempt this (hem hem).
You can start with this book which has some useful bits of code.
This is a brave attempt at implementation using JavaScript. Just convert to a wallchart.
posted by plep at 9:45 AM on June 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
I would love a big wall calendar that had all of the major calendars aligned
That's the one thing I miss about Malaysia when I lived elsewhere because we have these... Chinese coffeeshop calendars (also a mainstay in Singapore) that has exactly that for our major communities, so there're the Chinese dates, and Islamic dates and Tamil Hindu dates and festivals, and most importantly... the dates of the major horse races lololol. Although now that I was googling for examples, I am finding apps for this!
posted by cendawanita at 9:53 AM on June 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
That's the one thing I miss about Malaysia when I lived elsewhere because we have these... Chinese coffeeshop calendars (also a mainstay in Singapore) that has exactly that for our major communities, so there're the Chinese dates, and Islamic dates and Tamil Hindu dates and festivals, and most importantly... the dates of the major horse races lololol. Although now that I was googling for examples, I am finding apps for this!
posted by cendawanita at 9:53 AM on June 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's strange that no clerics throughout the past centuries have just said "Fuck it, water's allowed anytime"
It's not supposed to be easy.
posted by Etrigan at 10:07 AM on June 6, 2016
It's not supposed to be easy.
posted by Etrigan at 10:07 AM on June 6, 2016
Ah yes, time to feel guilty about not fasting, and defensive about not feeling guilty enough about not fasting. I can manage it when Ramadan falls in the fall/winter, but summer? It's not happening, not if I want to remain functional at work. So time to make a donation to a food bank and/or homeless shelter!
Every year, I'm astonished by how many people, my family members included, push themselves to fast even when it's not medically or practically a good idea. Islam is actually really good about offering all sorts of totally acceptable exceptions! It's a-okay to not fast if you have any medical conditions that preclude it, or if you're traveling, or if you have your period, or if you're pregnant, and probably some other exceptions I'm forgetting. The Quran is very forgiving on this matter! You're just either supposed to make the fast days up some time when you can fast, or feed someone needy in place of fasting. Fasting isn't meant to be punishment, though neither is it meant to be easy. And yet every year, I see people practically martyring themselves to the fast, like, making themselves sick and miserable. Which seems besides the point.
posted by yasaman at 10:30 AM on June 6, 2016 [8 favorites]
Every year, I'm astonished by how many people, my family members included, push themselves to fast even when it's not medically or practically a good idea. Islam is actually really good about offering all sorts of totally acceptable exceptions! It's a-okay to not fast if you have any medical conditions that preclude it, or if you're traveling, or if you have your period, or if you're pregnant, and probably some other exceptions I'm forgetting. The Quran is very forgiving on this matter! You're just either supposed to make the fast days up some time when you can fast, or feed someone needy in place of fasting. Fasting isn't meant to be punishment, though neither is it meant to be easy. And yet every year, I see people practically martyring themselves to the fast, like, making themselves sick and miserable. Which seems besides the point.
posted by yasaman at 10:30 AM on June 6, 2016 [8 favorites]
Nobody said it should be easy. You try not eating for 14-16 hours at a time. I get pretty effing hangry after 8, FFS. (How do Muslims who work at extreme latitudes deal with it when Ramadan falls during the period of perpetual daylight, I wonder?)
Even as far south as Anchorage there are only four hours where the sun is below the horizon this time of year. In Barrow the sun won't set until 1:52AM on August 2nd! (and will rise again less than an hour later!)
posted by wierdo at 10:31 AM on June 6, 2016
Even as far south as Anchorage there are only four hours where the sun is below the horizon this time of year. In Barrow the sun won't set until 1:52AM on August 2nd! (and will rise again less than an hour later!)
posted by wierdo at 10:31 AM on June 6, 2016
How Do Muslims Fast for Ramadan if There’s No Sunset?
The Islamic Center of Northern Norway, for example, issued a fatwa—a decision given by a scholar of Islamic law or other Muslim judicial authority—that gives local Muslims the option of following the fasting hours of the holy city of Mecca when the local fasting day exceeds 20 hours. The Assembly of Muslim Jurists of America made a similar ruling that said that Muslims living at extreme northern points of Alaska use the sunrise and sunset times of another part of the country where “day is distinguishable from night.” The Council of Senior Scholars in Saudi Arabia likewise decided that Muslims “in a land in which the sun does not set during the summer and does not rise during the winter” should set their fasting times based on “the dawn and sunset each day in the closest country in which night can be distinguished from day.”posted by Etrigan at 10:35 AM on June 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
(How do Muslims who work at extreme latitudes deal with it when Ramadan falls during the period of perpetual daylight, I wonder?)
You can refer to Mecca's hours if you wish.
posted by Talez at 10:41 AM on June 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
You can refer to Mecca's hours if you wish.
posted by Talez at 10:41 AM on June 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
Ramadan in SPAAAAACCCCCCEEEEEEEE:
Malaysia’s government published a 20-page booklet of guidelines, confirming that astronauts should follow the same prayer and fasting times as the location from which their spacecraft lifted off—in this case, the Baikonur launch pad. “There is no monolithic standard,” says Imam Abdullah Hasan of the Neeli mosque in Greater Manchester, Britain. “The beauty of Islam is its flexibility.”
posted by GuyZero at 10:44 AM on June 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
Malaysia’s government published a 20-page booklet of guidelines, confirming that astronauts should follow the same prayer and fasting times as the location from which their spacecraft lifted off—in this case, the Baikonur launch pad. “There is no monolithic standard,” says Imam Abdullah Hasan of the Neeli mosque in Greater Manchester, Britain. “The beauty of Islam is its flexibility.”
posted by GuyZero at 10:44 AM on June 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
huh, how do space muslims do their daily prayers if mecca is neither east nor west of them, but possibly directly below them?
posted by poffin boffin at 10:48 AM on June 6, 2016
posted by poffin boffin at 10:48 AM on June 6, 2016
huh, how do space muslims do their daily prayers if mecca is neither east nor west of them, but possibly directly below them?
You do realize that with free floating you can literally just point yourself down at Mecca, right?
posted by Talez at 10:51 AM on June 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
You do realize that with free floating you can literally just point yourself down at Mecca, right?
posted by Talez at 10:51 AM on June 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
yes i am aware of the weightlessness of space. i am asking if there is an accepted guideline for how it should be done, not just lol space headstands lol.
posted by poffin boffin at 10:52 AM on June 6, 2016
posted by poffin boffin at 10:52 AM on June 6, 2016
Wired had this question of Islamic theology locked down nearly a decade ago.
Malaysia's space agency, Angkasa, convened a conference of 150 Islamic scientists and scholars last year to wrestle with these and other questions. The resulting document (.doc), "A Guideline of Performing Ibadah (worship) at the International Space Station (ISS)", was approved by Malaysia's National Fatwa Council earlier this year. According to the report, determining the qibla should be "based on what is possible" for the astronaut, and can be prioritized this way: 1) the Ka'aba, 2) the projection of Ka'aba, 3) the Earth, 4) wherever.
posted by GuyZero at 10:55 AM on June 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
Malaysia's space agency, Angkasa, convened a conference of 150 Islamic scientists and scholars last year to wrestle with these and other questions. The resulting document (.doc), "A Guideline of Performing Ibadah (worship) at the International Space Station (ISS)", was approved by Malaysia's National Fatwa Council earlier this year. According to the report, determining the qibla should be "based on what is possible" for the astronaut, and can be prioritized this way: 1) the Ka'aba, 2) the projection of Ka'aba, 3) the Earth, 4) wherever.
posted by GuyZero at 10:55 AM on June 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
A Guideline of Performing Ibadah at the International Space Station (ISS)
I'm not a Muslim, I just know how to use teh googles
posted by GuyZero at 10:57 AM on June 6, 2016
I'm not a Muslim, I just know how to use teh googles
posted by GuyZero at 10:57 AM on June 6, 2016
Also, remember that there is not a single Islamic reference for these things. Asking "What do Muslims do in X situation?" is almost precisely like asking "What do Christians do in X situation?" -- are you asking about Sunni or Shi'a Muslims? Sunni in Algeria or Sunni in Malaysia?
posted by Etrigan at 11:06 AM on June 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 11:06 AM on June 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
Also, remember that there is not a single Islamic reference for these things. Asking "What do Muslims do in X situation?" is almost precisely like asking "What do Christians do in X situation?"
QFT. yet, last year i got into a pointless tumblr conversation with someone who wanted to write a sff AU full of what-ifs and wouldn't listen to what I was trying to say.
posted by cendawanita at 11:09 AM on June 6, 2016
QFT. yet, last year i got into a pointless tumblr conversation with someone who wanted to write a sff AU full of what-ifs and wouldn't listen to what I was trying to say.
posted by cendawanita at 11:09 AM on June 6, 2016
Globalization weirdness #63267.
Ramadan Mubarak with VIMTO !?!@?@!??!@??!
posted by lalochezia at 11:28 AM on June 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ramadan Mubarak with VIMTO !?!@?@!??!@??!
posted by lalochezia at 11:28 AM on June 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
My family were Lebanese Maronites, but with a ton of Islamic "cousins". Even though it's been decades since my grandparents passed on, I fast on 1 Ramadan, in memory of them, and during all of Ramadan I try to be conscious of my Muslim friends who fast, and because we are often invited to iftar, I spend part of the month making grandmother's recipes to take whenever we are invited. So, even though I'm not a religious person, Ramadan is a month of reflection for me. May the season bring peace to the hearts of all people.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:38 AM on June 6, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:38 AM on June 6, 2016 [15 favorites]
> is almost precisely like asking "What do Christians do in X situation?" -- are you asking about Sunni or Shi'a Muslims?
It's even more complicated when you consider the further subdivisions: Shia twelver or Ismaili? What about the Pakistan Ahmaddiya who a large percentage of the Sunni population consider to be heretics? Qazilbash Shia who live in Kandahar and are surrounded by fundamentalist Sunnis?
Americans frequently fail to grasp the difference between the 'root' authority of different Sharia law. For example if you're a twelver Shia and are looking for an authoritative sharia law opinion on some difficult subject, the answer will most likely come from Qom in Iran. A Hanafi or Hanbali Sunni would look to an opinion written by a religious scholar at Al-Azhar University in Egypt.
posted by thewalrus at 1:48 PM on June 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's even more complicated when you consider the further subdivisions: Shia twelver or Ismaili? What about the Pakistan Ahmaddiya who a large percentage of the Sunni population consider to be heretics? Qazilbash Shia who live in Kandahar and are surrounded by fundamentalist Sunnis?
Americans frequently fail to grasp the difference between the 'root' authority of different Sharia law. For example if you're a twelver Shia and are looking for an authoritative sharia law opinion on some difficult subject, the answer will most likely come from Qom in Iran. A Hanafi or Hanbali Sunni would look to an opinion written by a religious scholar at Al-Azhar University in Egypt.
posted by thewalrus at 1:48 PM on June 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
Ramadan Mubarak with VIMTO !?!
What??? It's British??? I got introduced to it by my cousins and I've always thought it to be an Arab region thing! Vimto's a staple on the menu in Arabic restaurants here, I wouldn't have been able to get any otherwise.
posted by cendawanita at 1:52 PM on June 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
What??? It's British??? I got introduced to it by my cousins and I've always thought it to be an Arab region thing! Vimto's a staple on the menu in Arabic restaurants here, I wouldn't have been able to get any otherwise.
posted by cendawanita at 1:52 PM on June 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
I always write down the dates for Ramadan on my clinic's calendar, not that I consider myself particularly on the up and up about it - we have a lot a lot of Muslim patients from a variety of countries/cultures.
I just left work, so -- this time of (the lunar?) year drives me crazy. I do OB/GYN, and I want to crunch some numbers at some point about Ramadan -- on the rate of inductions of labor for low amniotic fluid and hospital visits/admissions for dehydration in pregnancy. More ultrasounds and tests because of decreased fetal movement, nausea/vomiting/hypoglycemia requiring ER admission, preterm labor with dehydration, having to screw with people's medications, etc etc etc arrrghhh. One of our nurses also turns into a hangry monster for almost a month, which is ... great. Eid can't come soon enough.
I know you're really not supposed to fast in pregnancy/breastfeeding in Islam (so I've been told about a million times), but damn if a lot of people don't try. I try to make a point of talking to patients about it in the weeks beforehand (most all my patients are pregnant), to try and feel out their plans and our recommendations, but ... meh, there is no narrative arc to this comment, just first-clinic-day-during-Ramadan fatigue. ramadan mubarak!
posted by circle_b at 4:37 PM on June 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
I just left work, so -- this time of (the lunar?) year drives me crazy. I do OB/GYN, and I want to crunch some numbers at some point about Ramadan -- on the rate of inductions of labor for low amniotic fluid and hospital visits/admissions for dehydration in pregnancy. More ultrasounds and tests because of decreased fetal movement, nausea/vomiting/hypoglycemia requiring ER admission, preterm labor with dehydration, having to screw with people's medications, etc etc etc arrrghhh. One of our nurses also turns into a hangry monster for almost a month, which is ... great. Eid can't come soon enough.
I know you're really not supposed to fast in pregnancy/breastfeeding in Islam (so I've been told about a million times), but damn if a lot of people don't try. I try to make a point of talking to patients about it in the weeks beforehand (most all my patients are pregnant), to try and feel out their plans and our recommendations, but ... meh, there is no narrative arc to this comment, just first-clinic-day-during-Ramadan fatigue. ramadan mubarak!
posted by circle_b at 4:37 PM on June 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
But people do it anyways to show how pious they are and so they won't face disapproval from their family and neighbors.
Oh, boy, I definitely know how that works. Lucky for me I was raised Baptist and didn't have any fasting-based religious observances, or I probably would have found some way to put myself in the hospital over it.
posted by tobascodagama at 5:23 PM on June 6, 2016
Oh, boy, I definitely know how that works. Lucky for me I was raised Baptist and didn't have any fasting-based religious observances, or I probably would have found some way to put myself in the hospital over it.
posted by tobascodagama at 5:23 PM on June 6, 2016
Ramzan Mubarak!
Sleep had always been the bigger challenge for me, especially when, like now, the days are long. Of course I have now become medically exempt, so it's no longer an issue.
posted by bardophile at 1:22 PM on June 7, 2016
Sleep had always been the bigger challenge for me, especially when, like now, the days are long. Of course I have now become medically exempt, so it's no longer an issue.
posted by bardophile at 1:22 PM on June 7, 2016
Just posted this on my FB wall --
------
So the other day I was reading a post on Metafilter about Ramadan. And there was a link to a FB thread about the different lengths of the fast each day in different cities. I was a bit curious (imagining the difficulty of fasting in the land of the midnight sun!), so I followed the link.
When I got there I found a man with a typical whitebread American name, asking questions about fasting. He said he was not Muslim, but he wanted to participate in the Ramadan fast.
I kind of expected people to treat him like an unwelcome weirdo, or ignore him. And that didn't happen, with the exception of a couple of people asking "why would you ever want to do that?"
Instead, people were immensely kind and welcoming to him. Immensely. They said that they appreciated that he was trying to share the experience with them, even as a non-Muslim. They explained things, and gave suggestions. And they thanked him and wished him well. They did not try to convert him; a couple of people just said "perhaps some day Allah will bless you and you will come to Islam." It was a long thread that was 99% understanding and kindness and friendship.
Eventually the man explained why he wanted to experience the fast. He said he lives in a place in America where people hate Muslims, and the hatred and lack of understanding makes him sad. He wants to try to understand others better in hopes of showing his family and the people around him that we are all not so different, after all.
I was really, really touched by reading the thread. In a world where so many people use religion as a reason to look down on others, I didn't expect it to go as it did. It was a lovely reminder that the people who use their religion -- any religion -- as fuel for hatred and anger are not the majority.
-----------
So, cendawanita, thanks for this post. It made my day. It just took me a few days to get in here to say so.
posted by litlnemo at 12:13 AM on June 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
------
So the other day I was reading a post on Metafilter about Ramadan. And there was a link to a FB thread about the different lengths of the fast each day in different cities. I was a bit curious (imagining the difficulty of fasting in the land of the midnight sun!), so I followed the link.
When I got there I found a man with a typical whitebread American name, asking questions about fasting. He said he was not Muslim, but he wanted to participate in the Ramadan fast.
I kind of expected people to treat him like an unwelcome weirdo, or ignore him. And that didn't happen, with the exception of a couple of people asking "why would you ever want to do that?"
Instead, people were immensely kind and welcoming to him. Immensely. They said that they appreciated that he was trying to share the experience with them, even as a non-Muslim. They explained things, and gave suggestions. And they thanked him and wished him well. They did not try to convert him; a couple of people just said "perhaps some day Allah will bless you and you will come to Islam." It was a long thread that was 99% understanding and kindness and friendship.
Eventually the man explained why he wanted to experience the fast. He said he lives in a place in America where people hate Muslims, and the hatred and lack of understanding makes him sad. He wants to try to understand others better in hopes of showing his family and the people around him that we are all not so different, after all.
I was really, really touched by reading the thread. In a world where so many people use religion as a reason to look down on others, I didn't expect it to go as it did. It was a lovely reminder that the people who use their religion -- any religion -- as fuel for hatred and anger are not the majority.
-----------
So, cendawanita, thanks for this post. It made my day. It just took me a few days to get in here to say so.
posted by litlnemo at 12:13 AM on June 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
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posted by Lyn Never at 8:11 PM on June 5, 2016 [1 favorite]