there was just one guy who was better than him
June 8, 2016 9:50 AM   Subscribe

 
Nice to see the first comment is from a main contributor to the Django framework and the author of an online music tool.
posted by yerfatma at 9:52 AM on June 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


Maybe it would be better not to pursue this line of research. Consider the effect that Amazon has had on bookstores, and digital streaming has had on radio stations and record stores. Maybe we don't need to put all the (human) guitarists out of work too.
posted by crazy_yeti at 10:48 AM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


The basic idea is, we train the network on a huge database of classical guitar music, and then hook the output back into the input, so that it, in a sense, starts to "dream up" an infinite amount of original classical guitar music based on it's own "knowledge" learned from the database (knowledge that often times we don't even really understand).
At what point do they set it on fire so that, while recovering from seemingly irredeemable damage, it teaches itself an entirely new form of instrumentalism because it's a badass motherfucker?
posted by howfar at 10:51 AM on June 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Maybe we don't need to put all the (human) guitarists out of work too.

As long as they only use the thing for classical and jazz, that won't be a problem :)
posted by thelonius at 10:52 AM on June 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


As long as they only use the thing for classical and jazz, that won't be a problem :)

Flagged for too much fucking perspective.
posted by howfar at 10:53 AM on June 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Eponyppropriate, too.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:08 AM on June 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


These sounded pretty, but they all failed to resolve in the way that made DR's playing so enjoyable. Each phrase would start off sounding okay, then either end or wander off somewhere else with all the tension still there.
posted by scruss at 11:21 AM on June 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Thanks for the post.

I play jazz guitar. I apologize.

The Djangobot is a neat idea, not well fleshed out (so to speak) at this point. As the author points out there is not enough material in it to create truly Django-like solos in a human perceptual way. There is also the challenge of understanding what makes a Django-like solo beyond arpeggiation and repeated notes.

The first version of this, much like the first "computers" were humans, was kids listening to their musical heroes and woodshedding. The next upgrade I know is the Charlie Parker Omnibook, which had all the Parker-like licks and phrases written out so saxophonists could memorize and annoy their bandmates with fluidity and finesse, but only for moments at a time. Then comes Band In A Box, software which does a reasonable job of creating not just the background but the solos of your choices of genres. Some of the jazz style are remarkably good. But they're good because the solo engine is limited by what the programmer felt was appropriate and good.

So the interesting thing here is the "uncanny valley" between a decent BIAB solo and a purely heuristic untouched by human hands solo. The biggest markers of the Djangobot for me are the inability to get back inside the chords after an excursion. And repeated notes in odd places. I can hear the Django-ness in an analytic way, but don't experience the added value of the sequence of notes.

Neat idea. Can computers create new musical content of perceived value for human listeners? Yes. Are we there yet? Ehh, not so much. the more I study the creation of pleasurable sequences of notes, the better I can get at creating them. The Djangobot concept is a useful study tool.

Again, I apologize for playing jazz guitar.
posted by lothar at 12:35 PM on June 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


Jazz guitar is not to be apologized for. Jazz guitar is the business.

This attempt to do to music generally what autotune does to singing, not so much.
posted by flabdablet at 12:52 PM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Using this to simply recreate Django Reinhard is a waste of potential - we have recordings of the man himself, plus a bunch of imitators who have figured out how he did what he did (to a greater or lesser extent) and follow in the footsteps if that's not enough. We should train this on, say, 50% Django Reinhard and 50% Olivier Messiaen just to see what the fuck it comes up with.
posted by Dr Dracator at 1:30 PM on June 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


It sounds like the guitar version of K. K. Slider's voice.

K. K. Slider, for the uninitiated, is the dog who sings in a cafe in Animal Crossing.

Anyway, I think the fear that this will replace Real Guitar Playing is perhaps a little premature. It's exactly like guitar playing except without the sound and feel.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:42 PM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Waiting for the version where Djangobot jams with Grapellibot.
posted by CincyBlues at 1:46 PM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


I do not grok an Old One. I grok spoiled meat.
posted by tspae at 3:13 PM on June 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


METAFILTER: I apologize for playing jazz guitar.
posted by philip-random at 3:35 PM on June 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Sing Or Swim: "It sounds like the guitar version of K. K. Slider's voice."

I'm assuming you meant that as a criticism, but having never played Animal Crossing, I've never heard of K.K. Slider, and I am fucking grooving on your YouTube link. As a person who hates lyrics, I was primed from the start to enjoy it, but for some reason I'm enjoying far beyond just that.
posted by Bugbread at 6:28 PM on June 8, 2016


The 808 didn't put drummers out of work. You cannot replace the human touch, but you can do some Cool Shit(tm) and — probably by accident — create new tools for musicians to wield.
posted by Dark Messiah at 6:35 PM on June 8, 2016


The 808 didn't put drummers out of work.

It's replaced drummers in some bands. Melt-Banana, for example, doesn't tour with a drummer and bass player any more.
posted by flabdablet at 6:27 AM on June 9, 2016


Neat idea. Can computers create new musical content of perceived value for human listeners? Yes. Are we there yet? Ehh, not so much.

We are there already and have been for a little while.
posted by Television Name at 8:08 AM on June 9, 2016


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