Would humans remain human on Mars?

June 11, 2016 5:19 AM

But let’s assume SpaceX, or an international coalition led by NASA, or China’s space agency eventually figure out the engineering and financing of a Mars colony. Let’s also assume the biology of reproduction in space, and on foreign worlds, is a solvable problem. After homo sapiens becomes a multi-planet species, the question becomes, would we remain a single species of humanity?
posted by veedubya (47 comments total)

At the astronomical cost per pound for transporting cargo between planets, one thing is certain: human remains will remain on Mars.
posted by fairmettle at 5:45 AM on June 11, 2016 [9 favorites]

I think this is putting the cart before the horse. First we need to find two people willing to have sex with each other 55million kilomiters away after spending 300 days in close quarters without either hating each other or accidentally doing it beforehand.
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:48 AM on June 11, 2016 [10 favorites]

Rule 34

First ...next, for our site marsneedsguitars.xxx, we need to find two people willing to have sex with each other 55million kilomiters away after spending 300 days in close quarters without either hating each other or accidentally doing it beforehand.

FTFY
posted by otherchaz at 6:16 AM on June 11, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Expanse series deals with this pretty well I think. Humans born on Mars are pretty much the same with maybe slightly less bone density and muscle mass, but the Belters living on Ceres and the Outer Planets are all but incapable of setting foot on Earth under full gravity. They're long boned with big heads from development in microgravity, but still capable of reproducing with an standard Earth human. The timescale that it would take for speciation to occur is longer than human civilization, and there's no place in our Solar system where humans could survive that long unsupported by any sustaining contact with Earth. We'd have to solve interstellar travel first to even consider the issue of what happens to humans on another planet.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:26 AM on June 11, 2016 [14 favorites]

Even on Earth humans get tobe pretty different. Sumo wrestlers and ballerinas are the same species. Himalayans who can breathe easily at 30,000 feet are the same species. People with skin as dark as coal and as white as bleached paper are the same species. On Mars people will adapt to the gravity and maybe other conditions like the radiation environment, but it will be a long time before they become unable to interbreed with any of the rest of us, which is what would make a different species. Dogs are far more diverse than humans are ever likely to get and they are all the same species.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:28 AM on June 11, 2016 [25 favorites]

IIRC in the Kim Stanley Robinson Mars books its not just the gravity but the difference in atmospheric pressure that gives those born on Mars the most trouble on Earth. One of the protagonists books it to alpine Switzerland and feels much better.
posted by Wretch729 at 6:31 AM on June 11, 2016 [4 favorites]

Will humans that remain on a rapidly changing ecology remain "human"?
posted by sammyo at 6:35 AM on June 11, 2016 [3 favorites]

Allopatric speciation.
posted by brevator at 6:38 AM on June 11, 2016 [3 favorites]

No.
posted by DreamerFi at 6:41 AM on June 11, 2016 [2 favorites]

I hope a federation of planets would acknowledge the rights and freedoms of all sentient beings.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 6:45 AM on June 11, 2016

Remember that in Dune, every single bizarre and strange sentient being described -- guild navigators, face dancers, etc. -- all trace their lineage back to Homo sapiens.
posted by griphus at 6:51 AM on June 11, 2016 [9 favorites]

I'd settle for a transforming man-truck recognizing that freedom is the right of all sentient beings.
posted by No-sword at 6:52 AM on June 11, 2016 [7 favorites]

Hell, I'd settle for a non-transforming giant anthropomorphic robot loudly declaring that FREEDOM IS THE SOVEREIGN RIGHT OF EVERY AMERICAN.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:00 AM on June 11, 2016 [5 favorites]

Musk wants SpaceX to one day send colonists to Mars, while NASA is talking about building sustainable habitats on the red planet.

I just hope they remember to bring potatoes.
posted by Frayed Knot at 7:04 AM on June 11, 2016 [14 favorites]

Whoever ends up colonizing Mars, we can be sure of one thing: they are going to be so goddamn sick of potato jokes by the time they get there. The Free Martian constitution will probably ban any mention of root vegetables at all.
posted by No-sword at 7:08 AM on June 11, 2016 [22 favorites]

. . . but it will be a long time before they become unable to interbreed with any of the rest of us, which is what would make a different species.

No, this is not how species are defined; it's an incorrect and simplified explanation that is often given in school because species level differentiation is messy and can't always be agreed upon.

In short, it's an isolated population of organisms that are distinct from other organisms in a significant way. This could be phenotype, behavioral, etc... Looking at the genetics of an organism has also helped determine where the species line may lay, BUT! this area is fraught with disagreement of what a species is as well.

Wikipedia to help confuse matters clear things up.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 7:43 AM on June 11, 2016

If I recall correctly from that book I read in high school humans will become Martians when their dad shows them their own reflection in a canal.
posted by ejs at 8:05 AM on June 11, 2016 [14 favorites]

Also, what are the ethics of having a child on a planet hostile to life, and one that our bodies are not evolved for? The parents had the choice to go there, but the child didn't.
posted by Sreiny at 8:07 AM on June 11, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'd settle for a transforming man-truck recognizing that freedom is the right of all sentient beings.

You mean Truckules? He seems like a pretty affable guy, I don't think he'd argue with that. Didn't think he could transform, though.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:10 AM on June 11, 2016 [1 favorite]

ejs: "If I recall correctly from that book I read in high school humans will become Martians when their dad shows them their own reflection in a canal."

Let us not forget the bee guns. Never forget the bee guns.
posted by Splunge at 8:27 AM on June 11, 2016 [4 favorites]

Even if we stay on Earth we won't be the one species in some millions of years. Depending on how things go we'll speciate along lines of wealth and therefore access to things like life-extension and access to knowledge and technology. How thoroughly will the 400-year-old technocrat ruling class crossbreed with the simpering Dorito farmers of the future?
posted by cmoj at 8:31 AM on June 11, 2016 [10 favorites]

Bruce Sterling's Schizmatrix is another great bit of writing on human diversification as we expand into space.
posted by kokaku at 8:37 AM on June 11, 2016 [2 favorites]

Whoever ends up colonizing Mars, we can be sure of one thing: they are going to be so goddamn sick of potato jokes by the time they get there. The Free Martian constitution will probably ban any mention of root vegetables at all.

On the plus side, they will also ban ABBA.
posted by dephlogisticated at 8:39 AM on June 11, 2016 [2 favorites]

What's a species?
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 8:48 AM on June 11, 2016 [1 favorite]

Earth and Mars humans will remain the same species until we want to kill them, experiment on them, or take their stuff.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 10:00 AM on June 11, 2016 [4 favorites]

Frayed Knot, I have a hunch that the mission patch for the first manned Mars mission -- an unofficial patch, if not the actual NASA one -- will feature a potato.
posted by wenestvedt at 10:49 AM on June 11, 2016 [1 favorite]

the question becomes, would we remain a single species of humanity?

Well no; and I'm writing a space-operatic novel in which that's one of the background assumptions right now (ish), for publication circa 2018.
posted by cstross at 11:12 AM on June 11, 2016 [5 favorites]

accidentally doing it beforehand.
Can't stop laughing!

As noted above Sci-Fi has covered this question pretty well, hasn't it? Bringer Tom is right about the astounding yet easily-forgotten diversity in the human form (and nature?). Knowing what we're like though, I can't imagine even fairly minor deviations from Earth-average (whatever that might be perceived to be at the time) not giving rise to people being considered physical and cultural "Martians".

Chuntering aside, looks like I've got an article to read, brb!
posted by comealongpole at 11:39 AM on June 11, 2016

At the astronomical cost per pound for transporting cargo between planets, one thing is certain: human remains will remain on Mars.

"Nice wake. I wouldn't want this all the time, but definitely tastier than crickets."
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:41 AM on June 11, 2016 [1 favorite]

In order to have speciation, a significant number of children would have to die before reaching reproductive age. Alternatively, a significant number of couples would have to produce higher numbers of offspring than other couples.

How likely is that in an advanced scientific civilization?
posted by JackFlash at 1:02 PM on June 11, 2016 [1 favorite]

If we wanted to colonize mars, wouldn't it make more sense to send all-female colonists and frozen sperm?
posted by fings at 1:04 PM on June 11, 2016 [7 favorites]

In the early stages of a colony it would probably make more sense to send infants. Less resource requirements for the trip over, no requirement for prenatal and postnatal care. However we probably have an incomplete understanding of how exposure to cosmic rays affect infants (super-elasticism, flame powers, invisibility, etc)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 2:10 PM on June 11, 2016 [2 favorites]

Also, what are the ethics of having a child on a planet hostile to life, and one that our bodies are not evolved for? The parents had the choice to go there, but the child didn't.

Ethics aside, I'd expect a very high suicide rate.
posted by deadwax at 2:42 PM on June 11, 2016

So, RobotVoodooPower, a rocket full of babies? I like the cut of your jib, lets find an investor.
posted by Stonestock Relentless at 3:41 PM on June 11, 2016 [2 favorites]

I mean, how are those babies going to land the rockets or submit mission reports!? An idea so crazy it just might work. An entire planet of babies.
posted by Stonestock Relentless at 3:44 PM on June 11, 2016 [1 favorite]

Understand that the children on Mars will not have any memory of Earth. Mars is all they would know. And fantasy stories of a planet called Earth.

Why does this remind me of Dr. Strangelove?
posted by Splunge at 4:41 PM on June 11, 2016

The "species question" aside, it would seem to me that any civilization that has mastered interstellar travel has probably also mastered directed evolution.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 4:54 PM on June 11, 2016 [1 favorite]

As far as speciation events during the period of humans colonizing our solar system...who knows.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 4:59 PM on June 11, 2016

Humans on Mars? Considering the amount of radiation on a virtually atmosphere-free planet, evolution will have copious opportunities to experiment.
If there's ever enough time.
posted by Twang at 5:54 PM on June 11, 2016

Came here hoping for a contribution from either Jscalzi or Cstross. Not going away disappointed. I'm not going back to Long Way to a Small Angry Planet, which brushes on the same concerns.
posted by Ber at 6:39 PM on June 11, 2016

Ethics aside, I'd expect a very high suicide rate.

It's not trivial teaching kids to drive and swim; imagine bringing up kids around environment suits and so on.
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:40 PM on June 11, 2016

I assume they'll paint distinctive patterns like tiger stripes on them (when they're not ice skating on the canals).
posted by The Tensor at 7:28 PM on June 11, 2016

I mean, how are those babies going to land the rockets or submit mission reports!?

1. By computer, like they would anyway
2. With the correct cover sheet, assuming they saw the memo.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:31 PM on June 11, 2016 [2 favorites]

Ah, ah, I almost forgot... I'm also going to need you to go ahead and come in on Sunday, too. We, uhhh, lost some potatoes this week and we sorta need to play catch-up. Mmmmmkay? Thaaaaaanks.
posted by arcticseal at 8:41 PM on June 11, 2016 [2 favorites]

On the plus side if we send a rocket full of babies then they're going to spend most of their time screaming ululating "Ulla! Ulla!" which I think we can all agree is the first task on the "Homo sapiens on Mars" to-do list.
posted by No-sword at 9:52 PM on June 11, 2016 [1 favorite]

This was my take on it, a few years back.
posted by Scattercat at 2:32 AM on June 12, 2016

On the plus side, they will also ban ABBA.

And, thus, in that moment, declaring themselves forever non-human.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:08 AM on June 12, 2016