"I heard this growl behind me."
June 17, 2016 8:06 AM Subscribe
Beer can and bears save mushroom picker from hungry wolf: Deep in the wilderness of the Canadian Northwest Territories, Joanne Barnaby and her dog were stalked by a starving black wolf in a twelve-hour ordeal. With the wolf forcing her away farther and farther away from the highway and into the woods, Barnaby resorted to a desperate gambit when she ran across a mother bear who was searching for her lost cub.
What a badass. Though it's not clear to me how the beer can came into play. Couldn't she have just drank directly from the lake?
posted by 256 at 8:23 AM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by 256 at 8:23 AM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
A clean shot from a gun would have been a merciful gift to the starving wolf, and she recognizes that she made a mistake not to bring one with her. But without the gun, she made the best choice she could under the circumstances. Smart, tough lady.
posted by maudlin at 8:26 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by maudlin at 8:26 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
"He was dogged. He was just determined,"
Canid get any worse than that?
posted by univac at 8:29 AM on June 17, 2016 [48 favorites]
Canid get any worse than that?
posted by univac at 8:29 AM on June 17, 2016 [48 favorites]
Barnaby to the wolf: "I don't have to run faster than the bear. I just have to run faster than you."
posted by msalt at 8:37 AM on June 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by msalt at 8:37 AM on June 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
Wow, she really downplays the whole thing.
I am curious how she kept her dog safe from the wolf, and how she stayed awake and upright for twelve hours. But dang, that's one tough mushroom-picker!
posted by wenestvedt at 8:40 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I am curious how she kept her dog safe from the wolf, and how she stayed awake and upright for twelve hours. But dang, that's one tough mushroom-picker!
posted by wenestvedt at 8:40 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Bring your sidearm.
Obviously the real danger was the wolf, but the mosquitoes sound horrible.
posted by AugustWest at 8:43 AM on June 17, 2016
Obviously the real danger was the wolf, but the mosquitoes sound horrible.
posted by AugustWest at 8:43 AM on June 17, 2016
how she stayed awake and upright for twelve hours
The thought of being eaten by a wolf is probably a pretty good motivator.
posted by freakazoid at 8:45 AM on June 17, 2016 [31 favorites]
The thought of being eaten by a wolf is probably a pretty good motivator.
posted by freakazoid at 8:45 AM on June 17, 2016 [31 favorites]
It's circumstances like this that are the reason why one notable exception to Canada's strict gun laws vs. the US is that anyone with a basic firearms license can buy a short-barrel shotgun.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 8:45 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by [expletive deleted] at 8:45 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Bring your sidearm.
Obviously the real danger was the wolf, but the mosquitoes sound horrible.
I'm trying to imagine how you use your sidearm to defeat mosquitoes. You must have incredible aim and a whole lot of ammo.
posted by 256 at 8:47 AM on June 17, 2016 [20 favorites]
Obviously the real danger was the wolf, but the mosquitoes sound horrible.
I'm trying to imagine how you use your sidearm to defeat mosquitoes. You must have incredible aim and a whole lot of ammo.
posted by 256 at 8:47 AM on June 17, 2016 [20 favorites]
Scattershot.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:50 AM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:50 AM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
A bad day for me is forgetting my nail clippers. Good goddamn.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 8:52 AM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 8:52 AM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's hard to imagine that having a dog and throwing rocks at the lone wolf would not be enough to chase it off, but I guess it can happen. Probably not often enough to by itself justify carrying a gun everywhere you go, but I guess it's one more reason to think about it. After all, one of the reasons they're usually afraid of people is that one way or another they've learned that people are sometimes well-armed.
I would've guessed that bears are a thousand times more likely to kill you than are wolves, but looking at the statistics for North America it's more like only 20 times. I was sure they told me in primary school that wolves don't attack people. Maybe I will have just a little more fear for my life next time, if I live long enough to see another one.
posted by sfenders at 9:03 AM on June 17, 2016
I would've guessed that bears are a thousand times more likely to kill you than are wolves, but looking at the statistics for North America it's more like only 20 times. I was sure they told me in primary school that wolves don't attack people. Maybe I will have just a little more fear for my life next time, if I live long enough to see another one.
posted by sfenders at 9:03 AM on June 17, 2016
Hrmm I understand how a gun for self defense would've been potentially useful but I'm not sure that the lesson that I would necessarily draw from this is always carry a gun in the wilderness because countless hikers and backpackers, etc go into wilderness settings with potentially dangerous animals all the time without being armed and for the most part don't have to deal with potentially dangerous animal attacks.
I understand that some parts of rural North America have increased risks but in general the risk of animal predators attacking humans is exceedingly low in fact the number of wolf attacks on humans in North America was 3 in a 50 year period between 1952-2002. Even then actual predatory attacks on humans are very very rare with Rabies induced being the most deadly and many are in effect provoked attacks.
In general I would say in almost all situations pepper spray would actually be just as effective at fending off an attacker and probably would be less likely in resulting in a dead animal.
posted by vuron at 9:06 AM on June 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
I understand that some parts of rural North America have increased risks but in general the risk of animal predators attacking humans is exceedingly low in fact the number of wolf attacks on humans in North America was 3 in a 50 year period between 1952-2002. Even then actual predatory attacks on humans are very very rare with Rabies induced being the most deadly and many are in effect provoked attacks.
In general I would say in almost all situations pepper spray would actually be just as effective at fending off an attacker and probably would be less likely in resulting in a dead animal.
posted by vuron at 9:06 AM on June 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
I would have assumed a wolf separated from its pack would be hard-wired to stay away from bear cubs unless it knew exactly where the mama bear was in relation to itself. But it sounds like this one was hungry and desperate and probably not in its right mind.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:07 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:07 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
and how she stayed awake and upright for twelve hours.
Shit, most days I wonder that myself.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:08 AM on June 17, 2016 [21 favorites]
Shit, most days I wonder that myself.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:08 AM on June 17, 2016 [21 favorites]
I've always felt like if it came down to it, I could take on a single wolf in hand-to-hand combat and have a good chance of winning. I mean, their mouth is obviously a fearsome thing, but they only have one whereas I have two hands. And wolves are big animals, but I'm bigger! Plus your average wolf has probably never tried attacking a human, whereas I have lots of practice wrestling with dogs and I know some of their moves. If I had a knife and a dog with me, I don't think it would be much of a contest. It would be more a matter of trying to win the fight without being seriously injured, rather than a matter of not getting killed. Of course, a serious injury in the backcountry of the Northwest Territories could easily be life-threatening, but I still think that if I were in the woods with a knife and a dog and a single starving wolf had been following me for hours, I would take my chances.
These are obviously just the idle speculations of a person who has never been seriously threatened by any large predator, wolf or otherwise. I'm not trying to second-guess the actions of the woman in the article, who has much more backcountry experience than me and was actually there. What do others think, though? In a hypothetical scenario similar to the one in the article, would you take your chances in a fight?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:20 AM on June 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
These are obviously just the idle speculations of a person who has never been seriously threatened by any large predator, wolf or otherwise. I'm not trying to second-guess the actions of the woman in the article, who has much more backcountry experience than me and was actually there. What do others think, though? In a hypothetical scenario similar to the one in the article, would you take your chances in a fight?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:20 AM on June 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
"That little can of beer ended up saving my life."
Important lesson, hikers! I may be missing the point here, but pack beer dammit.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:21 AM on June 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
Important lesson, hikers! I may be missing the point here, but pack beer dammit.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:21 AM on June 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
I could take on a single wolf in hand-to-hand combat and have a good chance of winning.
Would you bet your life on it? Being alone in the wood with something much more feral than you is scary as shit. I got cornered unarmed by a boar while in the Army, and trust me, you are out of your element against something that does not reason or hold back.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:23 AM on June 17, 2016 [26 favorites]
Would you bet your life on it? Being alone in the wood with something much more feral than you is scary as shit. I got cornered unarmed by a boar while in the Army, and trust me, you are out of your element against something that does not reason or hold back.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:23 AM on June 17, 2016 [26 favorites]
One of those situations where it would be useful to have Groundskeeper Willie with you.
posted by Flashman at 9:24 AM on June 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Flashman at 9:24 AM on June 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
I got cornered unarmed by a boar while in the Army, and trust me, you are out of your element against something that does not reason or hold back.
Two thoughts:
1. Boars and wolves, heck! I was surprised walking from the bus to work by a slightly fractious male turkey, and that was thrills enough for me....
2. Why are they called "bores?" They are usually pretty damn exciting, as far as I can tell....
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:28 AM on June 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
Two thoughts:
1. Boars and wolves, heck! I was surprised walking from the bus to work by a slightly fractious male turkey, and that was thrills enough for me....
2. Why are they called "bores?" They are usually pretty damn exciting, as far as I can tell....
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:28 AM on June 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think a boar would be a lot more dangerous, actually, if you found yourself in a fight with one.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:29 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:29 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't trust myself to fight a wolf with a knife. While looking up the effectiveness of dogs against wolves, I found this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_hunting_with_dogs. You might be able to even the odds with a walking stick or a good knife, but you'd have to be desperate.
posted by YAMWAK at 9:30 AM on June 17, 2016
posted by YAMWAK at 9:30 AM on June 17, 2016
Needs “care bear” tag.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:32 AM on June 17, 2016
posted by Going To Maine at 9:32 AM on June 17, 2016
Hrmm I understand how a gun for self defense would've been potentially useful but I'm not sure that the lesson that I would necessarily draw from this is always carry a gun in the wilderness because countless hikers and backpackers, etc go into wilderness settings with potentially dangerous animals all the time without being armed and for the most part don't have to deal with potentially dangerous animal attacks...
I am not sure why if you own a licensed firearm why you wouldn't bring it with you when in the wilderness or in this case the Northwest Territories. I get that for the most part it is not necessary, but what is the downside of having it in case it is necessary?
posted by AugustWest at 9:37 AM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
I am not sure why if you own a licensed firearm why you wouldn't bring it with you when in the wilderness or in this case the Northwest Territories. I get that for the most part it is not necessary, but what is the downside of having it in case it is necessary?
posted by AugustWest at 9:37 AM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
I could take on a single wolf in hand-to-hand combat and have a good chance of winning.
Would you bet your life on it? Being alone in the wood with something much more feral than you is scary as shit.
I think that a lot of people think that a fight with a wolf would basically involve taking it head-on and grappling it. A lone wolf isn't going to do that. It's not going to approach you from the front, it's not going to go after you when you're at peak capacity. The wolf is a predator. It wants to get calories, not expend them. A serious injury for it (particularly if it has no pack) is basically a death sentence. It's going to come at you from a direction you're not expecting, when you're tired or distracted. And I guarantee that whatever experience wrasslin' dogs you have, that wolf has more practice taking down large mammals, most of which are pound for pound more dangerous than a full-grown man with a knife (or any weapon that isn't a gun).
posted by AdamCSnider at 9:39 AM on June 17, 2016 [29 favorites]
Would you bet your life on it? Being alone in the wood with something much more feral than you is scary as shit.
I think that a lot of people think that a fight with a wolf would basically involve taking it head-on and grappling it. A lone wolf isn't going to do that. It's not going to approach you from the front, it's not going to go after you when you're at peak capacity. The wolf is a predator. It wants to get calories, not expend them. A serious injury for it (particularly if it has no pack) is basically a death sentence. It's going to come at you from a direction you're not expecting, when you're tired or distracted. And I guarantee that whatever experience wrasslin' dogs you have, that wolf has more practice taking down large mammals, most of which are pound for pound more dangerous than a full-grown man with a knife (or any weapon that isn't a gun).
posted by AdamCSnider at 9:39 AM on June 17, 2016 [29 favorites]
Weight/bulk? Possible loss of/damage to valuable weapon? Risk of potentially shooting something you don't want to, including oneself? Logistics of dealing with a potentially dangerous and non-waterproof object that is useless except in unusual circumstances? I can think of lots of reasons not to bring a gun, though to some people they would be outweighed by other factors of course.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:41 AM on June 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:41 AM on June 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
Wolf attacks on humans are incredibly rare in North America, and have been for as long as we've been keeping records. For whatever reason they just don't go after people like they did in Europe and Asia, and it's usually rabies rather than predatory behavior.
It was probably interested in her dog, tho.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:46 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
It was probably interested in her dog, tho.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:46 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I've always felt like if it came down to it, I could take on a single wolf in hand-to-hand combat and have a good chance of winning. I mean, their mouth is obviously a fearsome thing, but they only have one whereas I have two hands. And wolves are big animals, but I'm bigger! Plus your average wolf has probably never tried attacking a human, whereas I have lots of practice wrestling with dogs and I know some of their moves.
Are 10-year old boys allowed to read metafilter? Where are your parents?
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 9:48 AM on June 17, 2016 [83 favorites]
Are 10-year old boys allowed to read metafilter? Where are your parents?
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 9:48 AM on June 17, 2016 [83 favorites]
When we do field work in the backcountry, northern BC or Alberta, for example, we usually only consider bears, and then mostly brown/grizzly/polar bears, when deciding about firearms. Sometimes cougars, but those aren't usually considered high risk. I've never heard a serious discussion of wolf risks. As most of our staff are not trained, we usually would contract a local guide both for their area knowledge, but mostly to stay alert while we work. Our work tends to be stationary but also near potential food sources (streams, shores, wetlands often).
We've seen lots of animal sign over the years, but have had very few encounters of note. It's more common to see a bear or a wolf from a distance, by boat or helicopter, than on foot where they can get away from you more easily. I've had many more, and more dangerous encounters in the southern parks where the smaller blacks are attracted to campgrounds and easy access to tourist leavings.
posted by bonehead at 9:48 AM on June 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
We've seen lots of animal sign over the years, but have had very few encounters of note. It's more common to see a bear or a wolf from a distance, by boat or helicopter, than on foot where they can get away from you more easily. I've had many more, and more dangerous encounters in the southern parks where the smaller blacks are attracted to campgrounds and easy access to tourist leavings.
posted by bonehead at 9:48 AM on June 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
Now I'd like to see a poll in metatalk where everyone votes on whether or not they could best a wolf in single combat.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 9:50 AM on June 17, 2016 [23 favorites]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 9:50 AM on June 17, 2016 [23 favorites]
How many five-year old wolves could you take? (With or without a butter knife?)
posted by bonehead at 9:52 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by bonehead at 9:52 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's not clear from the story if she left with her morels intact.
posted by Kabanos at 9:54 AM on June 17, 2016 [30 favorites]
posted by Kabanos at 9:54 AM on June 17, 2016 [30 favorites]
Now I'd like to see a poll in metatalk where everyone votes on whether or not they could best a wolf in single combat.
Could you beat one wolf-sized ten-year-old boy? Or a ten-year-old-boy-size wolf? Or a morel the size of an unarmed female mushroom-hunter? Or a bear the size of a morel? Or a bear cub the size of the Northwest Territories?
posted by wenestvedt at 9:59 AM on June 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
Could you beat one wolf-sized ten-year-old boy? Or a ten-year-old-boy-size wolf? Or a morel the size of an unarmed female mushroom-hunter? Or a bear the size of a morel? Or a bear cub the size of the Northwest Territories?
posted by wenestvedt at 9:59 AM on June 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
How many five-year old wolves could you take? (With or without a butter knife?)
I'd rather have the butter knife (and some butter) for the crabs; but if I have both the butter knife and crabs, I might be able to work something out with the wolf.
posted by nubs at 10:04 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'd rather have the butter knife (and some butter) for the crabs; but if I have both the butter knife and crabs, I might be able to work something out with the wolf.
posted by nubs at 10:04 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I take it she wasn't able to do a big loop back to the truck instead?
posted by Chuffy at 10:06 AM on June 17, 2016
posted by Chuffy at 10:06 AM on June 17, 2016
dang that's one tough mushroom picker
Yippie kai yay, mushroom picker
posted by zippy at 10:07 AM on June 17, 2016 [17 favorites]
Yippie kai yay, mushroom picker
posted by zippy at 10:07 AM on June 17, 2016 [17 favorites]
In a hypothetical scenario similar to the one in the article, would you take your chances in a fight?
well let's see
PBO ADVANTAGES:
* intermediate kung-fu skills
* human ingenuity and pluck
* remote chance that I have been Force-sensitive all this time and that a life-or-death struggle with a savage animal will awaken my latent powers
* I'm pretty badass tbh
* have lifted
* as a white male contending with the wild elements of nature, the narrative favors me
WOLF ADVANTAGES:
* teeth
* could give me lycanthropism
* a wolf never flees in the face of his foe
* risk of looking into its hungry, soulful eyes and becoming distracted by memories of childhood pet dog
* wolf has two hit dice, I'm not sure how many I have
* might get that TV On The Radio song stuck in my head
CONCLUSION:
Well I think it'd be a tough fight and in the end I might get a cool scar but I'm pretty sure I could beat up a wolf.
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:08 AM on June 17, 2016 [46 favorites]
well let's see
PBO ADVANTAGES:
* intermediate kung-fu skills
* human ingenuity and pluck
* remote chance that I have been Force-sensitive all this time and that a life-or-death struggle with a savage animal will awaken my latent powers
* I'm pretty badass tbh
* have lifted
* as a white male contending with the wild elements of nature, the narrative favors me
WOLF ADVANTAGES:
* teeth
* could give me lycanthropism
* a wolf never flees in the face of his foe
* risk of looking into its hungry, soulful eyes and becoming distracted by memories of childhood pet dog
* wolf has two hit dice, I'm not sure how many I have
* might get that TV On The Radio song stuck in my head
CONCLUSION:
Well I think it'd be a tough fight and in the end I might get a cool scar but I'm pretty sure I could beat up a wolf.
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:08 AM on June 17, 2016 [46 favorites]
One knife...say, 6-8 inches long. Let's assume no element of surprise.
posted by horsewithnoname at 10:11 AM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by horsewithnoname at 10:11 AM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
I've never heard a serious discussion of wolf risks.
Well that hits a bit close to home. We only thought about the bears when my old work sent out a crew to Northern Saskatchewan just over 10 years ago. Besides lots of previous jobs in the Arctic and Canadian Shield locations, we had experience sending people to Southern Africa, South America and the Middle East. The risk assessment for Points North was routine, and relative to the human dangers in those international locales, we were probably a bit complacent.
The guy in charge of the crew was an obnoxious asshole in his mid-20s, so I can understand why Kenton wanted to get some fresh air after a few weeks cooped up with him. If they'd understood the risks there is no way he would have been let out on his own, though they would probably have ended up screaming at each other.
He was 22, a bit on the scrawny side but otherwise in good health, and though highly motivated did not succeed in beating a wolf.
posted by cardboard at 10:13 AM on June 17, 2016 [14 favorites]
Well that hits a bit close to home. We only thought about the bears when my old work sent out a crew to Northern Saskatchewan just over 10 years ago. Besides lots of previous jobs in the Arctic and Canadian Shield locations, we had experience sending people to Southern Africa, South America and the Middle East. The risk assessment for Points North was routine, and relative to the human dangers in those international locales, we were probably a bit complacent.
The guy in charge of the crew was an obnoxious asshole in his mid-20s, so I can understand why Kenton wanted to get some fresh air after a few weeks cooped up with him. If they'd understood the risks there is no way he would have been let out on his own, though they would probably have ended up screaming at each other.
He was 22, a bit on the scrawny side but otherwise in good health, and though highly motivated did not succeed in beating a wolf.
posted by cardboard at 10:13 AM on June 17, 2016 [14 favorites]
I've always felt like if it came down to it, I could take on a single wolf in hand-to-hand combat and have a good chance of winning.
I was thinking will there ever be a boy born who can swim faster than a shark?
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:15 AM on June 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
I was thinking will there ever be a boy born who can swim faster than a shark?
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:15 AM on June 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
did not succeed in beating a wolf.
Yikes.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 10:20 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yikes.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 10:20 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
A wolf isn't going to just sit there and let you attack it, and as mentioned, it's not going to give you a head on rush when you're ready. As mentioned in the wikipedia article, wolves are good about attempting to quickly handicap by going for the limbs (and rushing away again), while strtegically body checking you.
Having had experience wrestling dogs, I don't doubt my ability to fight any one dog. I think I might have a chance to survive a wolf, but I'd give much better odds for getting somewhere with enough other people that the wolf will give up, than I would towards pressing myself to try to engage the wolf and get to safety with whatever injuries it gives me in the process.
A strategic retreat while throwing stones to increase it's distance and warriness seems extremely smart in my mind. That's not even taking into consideration the mosquito insanity.
Sure, maybe keeping an eye our for a fallen tree / tree branch with a 3 way fork at the end - use the two Y's as a "guide" and use the knife to sharpen the middle would be a great thing to have. But again, that's going to be a defensive weapon because I doubt the wolf will let you get close enough to use it. And it's going to be extra weight/encumbarance/distraction as one's walking through a forest getting dehydrated.
posted by nobeagle at 10:22 AM on June 17, 2016
Having had experience wrestling dogs, I don't doubt my ability to fight any one dog. I think I might have a chance to survive a wolf, but I'd give much better odds for getting somewhere with enough other people that the wolf will give up, than I would towards pressing myself to try to engage the wolf and get to safety with whatever injuries it gives me in the process.
A strategic retreat while throwing stones to increase it's distance and warriness seems extremely smart in my mind. That's not even taking into consideration the mosquito insanity.
Sure, maybe keeping an eye our for a fallen tree / tree branch with a 3 way fork at the end - use the two Y's as a "guide" and use the knife to sharpen the middle would be a great thing to have. But again, that's going to be a defensive weapon because I doubt the wolf will let you get close enough to use it. And it's going to be extra weight/encumbarance/distraction as one's walking through a forest getting dehydrated.
posted by nobeagle at 10:22 AM on June 17, 2016
A reminder of how even small and ostensibly domesticated animals can fuck you right up.
Here's an alternative approach for dealing with unruly domestic animals.
posted by sfenders at 10:24 AM on June 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
Here's an alternative approach for dealing with unruly domestic animals.
posted by sfenders at 10:24 AM on June 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
Fuck a gun, next time I go into the bush I'm taking Joanne Barnaby.
posted by looli at 10:26 AM on June 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by looli at 10:26 AM on June 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
cardboard: In the case of Kenton, it was not a case of one wolf versus one motivated scrappy man, but a case of three wolves versus one person. That's horrible; stalked and harried in multiple short encounters.
I guess that also brings up the point from my earlier comment about the strategic retreat from the wolf attempting to reach more people. Without a good idea of where one's going there's the possibility that you just meet more of the pack. I'm unsure with this extra knowledge where the calculus would be for attempting to potentially waste resources to engage the wolf so as to take the more direct known path to safety vs. retreating and possibly becoming outnumbered.
Given than one wolf is unlikely to do a direct engagement, perhaps it's best to try to bluff/force one's preferred route if one only sees one wolf... while trying to keep a really good lookout for more. It's a good thing that wolves are super loud, clumsy, often come in bright orange colouring and aren't used to moving around in a forest ...
Wait, why aren't there more wolf attacks ?
posted by nobeagle at 10:33 AM on June 17, 2016
I guess that also brings up the point from my earlier comment about the strategic retreat from the wolf attempting to reach more people. Without a good idea of where one's going there's the possibility that you just meet more of the pack. I'm unsure with this extra knowledge where the calculus would be for attempting to potentially waste resources to engage the wolf so as to take the more direct known path to safety vs. retreating and possibly becoming outnumbered.
Given than one wolf is unlikely to do a direct engagement, perhaps it's best to try to bluff/force one's preferred route if one only sees one wolf... while trying to keep a really good lookout for more. It's a good thing that wolves are super loud, clumsy, often come in bright orange colouring and aren't used to moving around in a forest ...
Wait, why aren't there more wolf attacks ?
posted by nobeagle at 10:33 AM on June 17, 2016
Bring your sidearm.
Everyone is missing the primary takeaway: Never hike alone in the bush without bringing your bear.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:35 AM on June 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
Everyone is missing the primary takeaway: Never hike alone in the bush without bringing your bear.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:35 AM on June 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
Thank Christ the constitution grants us the right to bear arms.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:55 AM on June 17, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:55 AM on June 17, 2016 [11 favorites]
We've had a couple of wolves spotted on our farmland. We're roughly fifty miles from the border with Canuckistan and for several years now there's been reports of wolves drifting into the state. The other day we were walking a section line with our two little dogs and they got all excited by some scat. Scat that looked like it was from a very large dog. I was suspicious.
On the way back to the farmyard my wife spotted a single track in the dust. It was about the size of her hand. I picked up the chihuahua and kept a close eye on the horizon the rest of the way back. I know they usually hunt at dawn and dusk but we weren't going to take any chances. Reading this thread I'm thinking next time we go out I might have to bring the .22.
posted by Ber at 11:04 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
On the way back to the farmyard my wife spotted a single track in the dust. It was about the size of her hand. I picked up the chihuahua and kept a close eye on the horizon the rest of the way back. I know they usually hunt at dawn and dusk but we weren't going to take any chances. Reading this thread I'm thinking next time we go out I might have to bring the .22.
posted by Ber at 11:04 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Thank Christ the constitution grants us the right to bear arms.
I mean, this was solved by an unarmed bear.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:12 AM on June 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
I mean, this was solved by an unarmed bear.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:12 AM on June 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
Said Barnaby to the wolf, in her best Liam Neeson voice: No mas.
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:12 AM on June 17, 2016
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:12 AM on June 17, 2016
It was a rather grizzly outcome.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:16 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:16 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
The trick is to get wolves in groups of three, and distract them by tricking them into howling at the full moon. Bonus if you can get a picture and turn it into a sweet T-shirt.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:18 AM on June 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:18 AM on June 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also: you don't bring a gun to a wolf fight. You bring a knife, three airplane booze bottles, a bad poem and a whole lot of existential angst.
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:19 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:19 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's hard to imagine that having a dog and throwing rocks at the lone wolf would not be enough to chase it off
For the most part all you need to do is convince the wolf that he can't eat you without getting injured. Or that you'll otherwise be more trouble than you're worth. After all, why would risk taking a rock to the eye or nasty bite from a dog when you can go track down a rabbit that won't put up much of a fight?
But when the wolf has made the decision to go after something that's less trouble and keeps coming up empty, the risk he's willing to take to get the food in front of him vs. potential food in the future will climb until that wolf is going to eat you or die trying.
That's why so many animal confrontations just involve a lot of angry noises and snarling faces, they're each trying to convince the other one that if they fight, they might not win, but they'll hurt them.
It's hard to put the danger to the dog in context. I wouldn't want my dog to fight anything but she's an 85 Lbs Akita that really likes to wrestle so against a skinny, starving wolf I think she'd be okay. How do you a story about a woman and her dog fighting a wolf and not have a picture of the dog?
posted by VTX at 11:39 AM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
For the most part all you need to do is convince the wolf that he can't eat you without getting injured. Or that you'll otherwise be more trouble than you're worth. After all, why would risk taking a rock to the eye or nasty bite from a dog when you can go track down a rabbit that won't put up much of a fight?
But when the wolf has made the decision to go after something that's less trouble and keeps coming up empty, the risk he's willing to take to get the food in front of him vs. potential food in the future will climb until that wolf is going to eat you or die trying.
That's why so many animal confrontations just involve a lot of angry noises and snarling faces, they're each trying to convince the other one that if they fight, they might not win, but they'll hurt them.
It's hard to put the danger to the dog in context. I wouldn't want my dog to fight anything but she's an 85 Lbs Akita that really likes to wrestle so against a skinny, starving wolf I think she'd be okay. How do you a story about a woman and her dog fighting a wolf and not have a picture of the dog?
posted by VTX at 11:39 AM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Ah ha! The Washington Post article on the story includes a picture of the dog, Joey. He looks like a solid medium-large size dog of maybe 50 Lbs.
Too big to pick up and carry too far and too small to hope that he could do more than buy you time if came to a fight. Though I don't think I'd be able to let me dog go into that fight alone.
posted by VTX at 11:45 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Too big to pick up and carry too far and too small to hope that he could do more than buy you time if came to a fight. Though I don't think I'd be able to let me dog go into that fight alone.
posted by VTX at 11:45 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I used to work with this man who was a novice hiker and who was absolutely terrified of bears. We had some mountain lion sightings in the area and I told him he was nuts, that he was much more likely to be killed by a mountain lion. He said he felt confident that he could fight off a mountain lion (which is a so much more likely to actively hunt a human being). When I asked him why, he said that he had read an article about someone who was attacked by a mountain lion and killed it with a pen.
posted by Missense Mutation at 11:56 AM on June 17, 2016
posted by Missense Mutation at 11:56 AM on June 17, 2016
He might be taking the phrase "the pen is mightier than the sword" a little too literally.
posted by cynical pinnacle at 11:58 AM on June 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by cynical pinnacle at 11:58 AM on June 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
Thank Christ the constitution grants us the right to bear arms.
I know, right? If only she had exercised her right to bear arms, she wouldn't have had to go to the trouble of finding a pair.
posted by hat_eater at 12:01 PM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I know, right? If only she had exercised her right to bear arms, she wouldn't have had to go to the trouble of finding a pair.
posted by hat_eater at 12:01 PM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
he said that he had read an article about someone who was attacked by a mountain lion and killed it with a pen
That once happened to my sister. Only it was a møøse, and she was karving her initials on the møøse with the sharpened end of an interspace tøøthbrush given her by Svenge - her brother-in-law - an Oslo dentist and star of many Norwegian møvies: "The Høt Hands of an Oslo Dentist", "Fillings of Passion", "The Huge Mølars of Horst Nordfink"... No realli!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:05 PM on June 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
That once happened to my sister. Only it was a møøse, and she was karving her initials on the møøse with the sharpened end of an interspace tøøthbrush given her by Svenge - her brother-in-law - an Oslo dentist and star of many Norwegian møvies: "The Høt Hands of an Oslo Dentist", "Fillings of Passion", "The Huge Mølars of Horst Nordfink"... No realli!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:05 PM on June 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yep the reality is that any predator makes decision not so much based upon will I survive this fight (although that can change between two males fighting for control) but whether the risk of serious injury will result in my death.
Almost every predator like a wolf is basically facing death or starvation if seriously injured. As far as I know there are no Wolf ERs hiding in the wilderness.
So except for certain situations (such as feeling like there is no possibility of escape or rabies infection) a Wolf will not usually attempt to prey on an adult human. The sort of behavior described in this account is extremely unusual, I wonder if it's primary target was more the companion animal and less the human.
posted by vuron at 12:07 PM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Almost every predator like a wolf is basically facing death or starvation if seriously injured. As far as I know there are no Wolf ERs hiding in the wilderness.
So except for certain situations (such as feeling like there is no possibility of escape or rabies infection) a Wolf will not usually attempt to prey on an adult human. The sort of behavior described in this account is extremely unusual, I wonder if it's primary target was more the companion animal and less the human.
posted by vuron at 12:07 PM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
I've always felt like if it came down to it, I could take on a single wolf in hand-to-hand combat and have a good chance of winning. I mean, their mouth is obviously a fearsome thing, but they only have one whereas I have two hands. And wolves are big animals, but I'm bigger! Plus your average wolf has probably never tried attacking a human, whereas I have lots of practice wrestling with dogs and I know some of their moves. If I had a knife and a dog with me, I don't think it would be much of a contest.
I used to tell myself something like this, but in recent years I've changed my mind.
In the first place, humans are surprisingly weak compared to other primates; chimpanzees, for example, are generally said to be on the order of five times stronger than us even though they are perhaps a little smaller on average -- and there are dynamometer results which seem to back this up (not to mention multiple horrific stories of chimpanzee attacks with adult male human beings exclusively cast in the role of completely helpless victim).
Various arguments have been put forth to account for this, such as differently spaced muscle attachment points across joints, and relative human adrenalin deficiencies, but I find those unconvincing. And we may well be the weak sibs of a weak clan, considering that primates apparently have about half the metabolic rate of other mammals of comparable size.
I also think the advantages of hands in close combat with a wolf would be more than offset by faster reactions on the part of the wolf, because its nerve impulses would only have to travel ~6 inches to control the muscles of its neck and jaws, as opposed to the ~2 feet yours would have to go to control your hands.
And finally, several anecdotes I've read about how hard it has been to disable, much less kill, rabid raccoons despite big advantages in weaponry and numbers have left me much less sanguine about human chances against wild animals in general, should worse come to worst.
posted by jamjam at 12:35 PM on June 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
I mean, this was solved by an unarmed bear.
Bear definitely had two arms. If bear had no arms, would be giant penguin. This is basic biology.
posted by FatherDagon at 12:36 PM on June 17, 2016 [18 favorites]
Bear definitely had two arms. If bear had no arms, would be giant penguin. This is basic biology.
posted by FatherDagon at 12:36 PM on June 17, 2016 [18 favorites]
full of bells and smells of pepper
posted by flabdablet at 12:45 PM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 12:45 PM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
wolves = definitely scary
bears = really really scary
rabid raccoons = AHHHHHH MOMMY HELP ME OMG PLEASE AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
posted by supermedusa at 12:52 PM on June 17, 2016
bears = really really scary
rabid raccoons = AHHHHHH MOMMY HELP ME OMG PLEASE AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
posted by supermedusa at 12:52 PM on June 17, 2016
He was 22, a bit on the scrawny side but otherwise in good health, and though highly motivated did not succeed in beating a wolf.
There's some contention to this, as there was evidence it was a black bear, which does have a long history of human predation, unlike wolves, and leaves similar bite-wounds.
I'm not saying wild wolves are harmless, mind you, just that you're more likely to be killed by a falling tree branch in the woods than be attacked by a wolf.
posted by Slap*Happy at 12:57 PM on June 17, 2016
There's some contention to this, as there was evidence it was a black bear, which does have a long history of human predation, unlike wolves, and leaves similar bite-wounds.
I'm not saying wild wolves are harmless, mind you, just that you're more likely to be killed by a falling tree branch in the woods than be attacked by a wolf.
posted by Slap*Happy at 12:57 PM on June 17, 2016
And finally, several anecdotes I've read about how hard it has been to disable, much less kill, rabid raccoons
Armed only with a shovel, I have fought off a big aggressive raccoon. It wasn't a fight to the death or anything, just a minor territorial dispute. I suspect they have in common with wolves that it takes a stronger blow than you'd think to hurt them, if you're more accustomed to the vulnerabilities of such fragile creatures as humans. Since it was not a wolf, I was not even slightly worried that it was going to leap through the air from ten feet away at thirty miles per hour and have me on the ground with its jaws clamped on some part of my body before I knew what happened. I'm not sure what the ideal wolf-fighting equipment would be, but "a knife" would not be giving me much hope. Better to have some kind of serious polearm at least.
posted by sfenders at 1:23 PM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Armed only with a shovel, I have fought off a big aggressive raccoon. It wasn't a fight to the death or anything, just a minor territorial dispute. I suspect they have in common with wolves that it takes a stronger blow than you'd think to hurt them, if you're more accustomed to the vulnerabilities of such fragile creatures as humans. Since it was not a wolf, I was not even slightly worried that it was going to leap through the air from ten feet away at thirty miles per hour and have me on the ground with its jaws clamped on some part of my body before I knew what happened. I'm not sure what the ideal wolf-fighting equipment would be, but "a knife" would not be giving me much hope. Better to have some kind of serious polearm at least.
posted by sfenders at 1:23 PM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
You don't have to outrun the wolf, just bring someone who thinks they're going to beat the wolf to death with their bare hands. While they're busy, jog away.
posted by Drastic at 1:39 PM on June 17, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by Drastic at 1:39 PM on June 17, 2016 [12 favorites]
Also keep in mind that the smartest dog is likely dumber than the dumbest wolf. When dogs evolved to live with us from wolves, the more intelligent wolves would have been the ones to keep their distance and stay wary of the humans. It's the idiots that hung around us and slowly turned into dogs. I'm not saying dogs are dumb, my dog is really smart, she's just an idiot compared to a wolf.
its nerve impulses would only have to travel ~6 inches to control the muscles of its neck and jaws
I don't know if it even needs to go that far. I've seen things bolt out of cover that my dog didn't know where there and I don't think she realizes that she is chasing the thing until about the third step.
posted by VTX at 1:49 PM on June 17, 2016
its nerve impulses would only have to travel ~6 inches to control the muscles of its neck and jaws
I don't know if it even needs to go that far. I've seen things bolt out of cover that my dog didn't know where there and I don't think she realizes that she is chasing the thing until about the third step.
posted by VTX at 1:49 PM on June 17, 2016
I still think that if I were in the woods with a knife and a dog and a single starving wolf had been following me for hours, I would take my chances.
I'd pay money to see that. Can we drop you into the woods, like a MetaFilter field trip or outing?
posted by Bella Donna at 2:26 PM on June 17, 2016
I'd pay money to see that. Can we drop you into the woods, like a MetaFilter field trip or outing?
posted by Bella Donna at 2:26 PM on June 17, 2016
I think you all are giving our species too little credit. Give the list of wolf attacks in North America a read, especially the non-fatal attacks section. People do manage to punch, kick, and grapple wolves, and improvised weapons are effective.
Just statistically, since 1990 there have only been two fatal attacks by wild wolves, but over sixty by bears. It's good that it worked out for her, but in hindsight bringing a bear into the situation does not seem wise.
posted by Pyry at 2:34 PM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Just statistically, since 1990 there have only been two fatal attacks by wild wolves, but over sixty by bears. It's good that it worked out for her, but in hindsight bringing a bear into the situation does not seem wise.
posted by Pyry at 2:34 PM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Anyone who thinks they would fight the wolf doesn't know how wolves kill prey. Wolves drive prey to exhaustion over hours or days, exactly as they did to this woman by herding them into rough terrain or deep snow. Once the prey can't stay alert they start darting in, biting it and retreating. The pain and blood loss further disables the prey. Once it's nearly dead already they will generally hamstring it and them rip the belly open. At no point will a wolf offer to wrestle you head on. You can challenge a wolf to a knife fight but it's likely just going to fade back and say "nah, I'll come back later".
posted by fshgrl at 3:40 PM on June 17, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by fshgrl at 3:40 PM on June 17, 2016 [15 favorites]
You can challenge a wolf to a knife fight but it's likely just going to fade back and say "nah, I'll come back later".
Clearly then, the ideal tactic for Joanne Barnaby would have been to challenge the wolf to a knife fight. If you don't have a knife, I presume a big stick would do.
posted by sfenders at 5:30 PM on June 17, 2016
Clearly then, the ideal tactic for Joanne Barnaby would have been to challenge the wolf to a knife fight. If you don't have a knife, I presume a big stick would do.
posted by sfenders at 5:30 PM on June 17, 2016
There's a huge difference between wrestling/rough-housing with a dog and dealing with one in an angry frenzy. Growing up, I had a several pretty big dogs, including a ~100 lb. german shepherd that you could grab and restrain and he was a huge marshmallow about it even if he tried to get away (and he could easily yank a grown person off their feet).
But wow, a couple of dogs getting aggressive towards each other over a toy or treat or whatever could be seriously disturbing, and the only time I ever got hurt was an accidental bite when I made the mistake of getting between them. It's a whole other side of them that's all teeth and scary fast. And he immediately realized what he did and backed down and felt sorry. I would not want to be on the other side of a desperate wolf that unapologetically wanted to eat me and had no ingrained boundaries about it.
Of course, that Pinky the cat video didn't surprise me. Cats sometimes pretend to be nice when it suits them, but they'll make you bleed and won't even give a damn.
posted by Pryde at 9:17 PM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
But wow, a couple of dogs getting aggressive towards each other over a toy or treat or whatever could be seriously disturbing, and the only time I ever got hurt was an accidental bite when I made the mistake of getting between them. It's a whole other side of them that's all teeth and scary fast. And he immediately realized what he did and backed down and felt sorry. I would not want to be on the other side of a desperate wolf that unapologetically wanted to eat me and had no ingrained boundaries about it.
Of course, that Pinky the cat video didn't surprise me. Cats sometimes pretend to be nice when it suits them, but they'll make you bleed and won't even give a damn.
posted by Pryde at 9:17 PM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Lotta wolf experts round these parts.
posted by smoke at 10:50 PM on June 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by smoke at 10:50 PM on June 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
"Real wolf won't attack you." Said from the comfort of inside.
Thanks but I will not take my chances in my childhood wolves would hunt and kill you. They were up there with falling through the ice and getting chopped up by a snow-blower (the street cleaning kind) in danger.
posted by From Bklyn at 2:38 AM on June 18, 2016
Thanks but I will not take my chances in my childhood wolves would hunt and kill you. They were up there with falling through the ice and getting chopped up by a snow-blower (the street cleaning kind) in danger.
posted by From Bklyn at 2:38 AM on June 18, 2016
[expletive deleted]: "anyone with a basic firearms license can buy a short-barrel shotgun."
In Canada that is still 18"
Missense Mutation: "When I asked him why, he said that he had read an article about someone who was attacked by a mountain lion and killed it with a pen."
Man attacked by cougar kills it with 3" pocket knife.
posted by Mitheral at 4:10 PM on June 18, 2016
In Canada that is still 18"
Missense Mutation: "When I asked him why, he said that he had read an article about someone who was attacked by a mountain lion and killed it with a pen."
Man attacked by cougar kills it with 3" pocket knife.
posted by Mitheral at 4:10 PM on June 18, 2016
Lotta wolf experts round these parts.
I'm a professional ecologist and years ago worked with some wolf researchers and have also seen them in person many times and just last winter we followed the tracks of wolves harrying an animal in the show down a logging road for 6 miles. You could see the multiple times it turned to fight the wolves and they circled and backed away. They got it off the road eventually and we stopped following but I assume they got it in the end as it was bleeding at that point. I've also watched Animal Planet. I don't know about anyone else here but it's no big secret how wolves hunt.
posted by fshgrl at 4:40 PM on June 18, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm a professional ecologist and years ago worked with some wolf researchers and have also seen them in person many times and just last winter we followed the tracks of wolves harrying an animal in the show down a logging road for 6 miles. You could see the multiple times it turned to fight the wolves and they circled and backed away. They got it off the road eventually and we stopped following but I assume they got it in the end as it was bleeding at that point. I've also watched Animal Planet. I don't know about anyone else here but it's no big secret how wolves hunt.
posted by fshgrl at 4:40 PM on June 18, 2016 [5 favorites]
I would think that your best strategy then, would be to find a solid branch or something and basically just face down the snarling wolf and walk toward your truck, use the stick to keep it away from you if it actually attacks but otherwise maintain eye contact and put your faith in bravado. Convince it that you're not afraid and it will assume you have some reason not to be.
posted by VTX at 3:58 PM on June 19, 2016
posted by VTX at 3:58 PM on June 19, 2016
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And in regards to the end of this: this is exactly what guns were designed for. The gun would have either been a warning to the wolf, a wound to the wolf, a fatal blow to the wolf... And that would have ended the story. No need for bears in this case.
posted by Nanukthedog at 8:22 AM on June 17, 2016 [5 favorites]