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June 18, 2016 1:20 PM Subscribe
Performers have had it with your shit: your phone is getting locked up.
Good for them.
Let's do this at movies, too.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:27 PM on June 18, 2016 [23 favorites]
Let's do this at movies, too.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:27 PM on June 18, 2016 [23 favorites]
“If you haven’t been to a phone-free show, you just don’t know what you’re missing,” he says. “There’s something about living in real life that can’t be replicated.”
well now i just feel old.
posted by fuzzypantalones at 1:27 PM on June 18, 2016 [133 favorites]
well now i just feel old.
posted by fuzzypantalones at 1:27 PM on June 18, 2016 [133 favorites]
I like having a handful of photos from a show. I'd bring a camera but I already have my cellphone so I use that instead. I dunno about enforcing the One True Way To Enjoy A Show. . Phones are Real Life too.
posted by BungaDunga at 1:35 PM on June 18, 2016 [30 favorites]
posted by BungaDunga at 1:35 PM on June 18, 2016 [30 favorites]
These need to come to live theater immediately.
posted by still_wears_a_hat at 1:39 PM on June 18, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by still_wears_a_hat at 1:39 PM on June 18, 2016 [15 favorites]
This is really interesting. On one hand I've never been fond of cameras at all. I always felt like if you're taking pictures/videos then you aren't really experiencing the thing.
On the other hand I understand how important camera phones are to the culture today. I don't have a phone and I haven't been to a public event like this in probably 15 years (before it was an issue) but I still get it. Instead of preventing people from using their phone/cameras perhaps performers should find ways to adapt to the current situation instead of trying to hold onto the good old days. It's like Lars Ulrich all over again.
Which brings us to another hand having to do with open/free culture. I'm firmly in planted in the land of making all my art and creations free to copy, modify, distribute, etc as well as monetarily free. So I am putting my hungry mouth where my mouth is. Artists -- and let's face it, especially wealthy ones -- whining about copyright stuff tends to come across as a "why should I care if you become even richer you rich whiny person you" kind of thing. While I didn't need a reason to not go to any more concerts and such this conveniently provides one (ignoring the fact that I don't have a phone -- some day, maybe, I will own one (gasp!)). Of course I don't want to force my open/free culture ideas on people but I don't have much patience for those artists who reject those same ideas.
As a final hand this particular approach seems like the best idea for a bad idea to start with. You keep the phone but it is locked up and will be unlocked once you come back out. It's pretty clever. Not as oppressive feeling as a 'phone-check' type of thing, I guess.
posted by bfootdav at 1:40 PM on June 18, 2016
On the other hand I understand how important camera phones are to the culture today. I don't have a phone and I haven't been to a public event like this in probably 15 years (before it was an issue) but I still get it. Instead of preventing people from using their phone/cameras perhaps performers should find ways to adapt to the current situation instead of trying to hold onto the good old days. It's like Lars Ulrich all over again.
Which brings us to another hand having to do with open/free culture. I'm firmly in planted in the land of making all my art and creations free to copy, modify, distribute, etc as well as monetarily free. So I am putting my hungry mouth where my mouth is. Artists -- and let's face it, especially wealthy ones -- whining about copyright stuff tends to come across as a "why should I care if you become even richer you rich whiny person you" kind of thing. While I didn't need a reason to not go to any more concerts and such this conveniently provides one (ignoring the fact that I don't have a phone -- some day, maybe, I will own one (gasp!)). Of course I don't want to force my open/free culture ideas on people but I don't have much patience for those artists who reject those same ideas.
As a final hand this particular approach seems like the best idea for a bad idea to start with. You keep the phone but it is locked up and will be unlocked once you come back out. It's pretty clever. Not as oppressive feeling as a 'phone-check' type of thing, I guess.
posted by bfootdav at 1:40 PM on June 18, 2016
Let's do this at movies, too.
Stand-up comedy shows too! (Paywall so I can't see if they discuss this in the article. Only saw Aliciia Keys before the banner dropped.)
The last stand-up show I went to the drunk woman at the table next to me texted for the whole show, the bright light in my peripheral vision. I tried to ignore it because this is the new normal, I guess, but it felt rude to the performer working his ass off on stage. She looked up once to loudly complain to her date that I was laughing too loud.
posted by bluecore at 1:42 PM on June 18, 2016 [13 favorites]
Stand-up comedy shows too! (Paywall so I can't see if they discuss this in the article. Only saw Aliciia Keys before the banner dropped.)
The last stand-up show I went to the drunk woman at the table next to me texted for the whole show, the bright light in my peripheral vision. I tried to ignore it because this is the new normal, I guess, but it felt rude to the performer working his ass off on stage. She looked up once to loudly complain to her date that I was laughing too loud.
posted by bluecore at 1:42 PM on June 18, 2016 [13 favorites]
Now can we put everyone's hands in lockable rubber mitts to discourage clap alongs?
posted by indubitable at 1:45 PM on June 18, 2016 [28 favorites]
posted by indubitable at 1:45 PM on June 18, 2016 [28 favorites]
i think this is a great idea (as long as the show is advertised as phone free ahead of time). also, the absolute rudest phone users at a live performance i've ever seen were older npr crowd types. people on facebook with their screen brightness all the way up for the 2 hour show, recording the whole thing on their giant tablet, using the flash, volume all the way up. it was really surprising because most of the bellowing i see online re: phone use at shows is about 'kids today!' but pretty much all the people under 30 just enjoyed the show with their phones securely away (roots festival where 'the watkins family hour' played - great show, despite all the phone stuff).
posted by nadawi at 1:53 PM on June 18, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 1:53 PM on June 18, 2016 [8 favorites]
The One dickhead move I made while working as an Usher was telling a student not to record the concert. (Before real cellphones, those too come to think of it) I mean, the person was doing it for class but my Hawkeye boss on the Loge had that "kibash that noise" aura gesticulation going.
I did tell her if she left it (on), I would personally see it was returned. But they stormed of and I had a smoke.
posted by clavdivs at 1:56 PM on June 18, 2016
I did tell her if she left it (on), I would personally see it was returned. But they stormed of and I had a smoke.
posted by clavdivs at 1:56 PM on June 18, 2016
> older npr crowd types
posted by stevil at 2:00 PM on June 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by stevil at 2:00 PM on June 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
most of the bellowing i see online re: phone use at shows is about 'kids today!' but pretty much all the people under 30 just enjoyed the show with their phones securely away
Another data point: the only shows I've attended lately where no one got out their smartphones were experimental shows at DIY spaces, with the crowd being mostly early 20 somethings. I couldn't tell if there are actual house rules forbidding pictures (so the venue isn't shut down) or if certain younger people get it more than older people do - this is about experiencing, not documenting your experience for others.
posted by naju at 2:01 PM on June 18, 2016 [6 favorites]
Another data point: the only shows I've attended lately where no one got out their smartphones were experimental shows at DIY spaces, with the crowd being mostly early 20 somethings. I couldn't tell if there are actual house rules forbidding pictures (so the venue isn't shut down) or if certain younger people get it more than older people do - this is about experiencing, not documenting your experience for others.
posted by naju at 2:01 PM on June 18, 2016 [6 favorites]
Now can we put everyone's hands in lockable rubber mitts to discourage clap alongs?
I've told you before, this is a music venue, you're looking for a completely different kind of club.
posted by howfar at 2:02 PM on June 18, 2016 [31 favorites]
I've told you before, this is a music venue, you're looking for a completely different kind of club.
posted by howfar at 2:02 PM on June 18, 2016 [31 favorites]
“He was pretty drunk, and two strangers were videotaping the guy, and I watched them, over their shoulder, posting on YouTube,” says Dugoni. “If a guy can’t go to a concert and just kind of let loose, what does that do to all interactions in the social sphere?”
I find this rationale really compelling.
Is the problem here the camera though, or the fact that these strangers are douchenozzles? Like, if the guy was screaming anti-semitic slurs or beating someone up we would be perhaps more forgiving of the man’s actions being filmed. And in this case, the technological solution isn’t being applied to let people cut loose - it’s being applied so that artist’s rights are being protected. Which is also fine - it’s just a very different purpose.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:05 PM on June 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
I find this rationale really compelling.
Is the problem here the camera though, or the fact that these strangers are douchenozzles? Like, if the guy was screaming anti-semitic slurs or beating someone up we would be perhaps more forgiving of the man’s actions being filmed. And in this case, the technological solution isn’t being applied to let people cut loose - it’s being applied so that artist’s rights are being protected. Which is also fine - it’s just a very different purpose.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:05 PM on June 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
Luckily the kinds of shows I go to are mostly bands who are pretty stoked when someone gives a shit enough to take a picture or video.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 2:05 PM on June 18, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 2:05 PM on June 18, 2016 [8 favorites]
I went to one of Dave Chapelle's live shows where he used Yondr phone pouches, and it was great for the exclusivity of the show. The value of being at live comedy acts goes down when you can just watch the same jokes on YouTube.
Outside of artistic value, the audience was much more engaged in the show and with each other because of the lack of texting and social networking.
posted by Become A Silhouette at 2:09 PM on June 18, 2016 [7 favorites]
Outside of artistic value, the audience was much more engaged in the show and with each other because of the lack of texting and social networking.
posted by Become A Silhouette at 2:09 PM on June 18, 2016 [7 favorites]
I went to see Flight of the Conchords a few days ago, and they had signs up that said no video recording and no pictures, and the ushers told us that again when we sat down. And yet as soon as they got on stage, people started recording and taking pictures with flashing and everything. But once Bret and Jemaine asked nicely - something to do with a bunch of new material that they didn't want to have out there quite yet, if possible - I didn't see a single phone out. It was very nice, I have to admit, not to have to see bright screens everywhere.
I tend to like the "no flash, that's all we ask!" rules normally, though. I love having a few pictures and videos of shows to re-live the experience later. There is room both for living in the moment and for making yourself a keepsake with the camera in your pocket.
posted by gemmy at 2:09 PM on June 18, 2016 [5 favorites]
I tend to like the "no flash, that's all we ask!" rules normally, though. I love having a few pictures and videos of shows to re-live the experience later. There is room both for living in the moment and for making yourself a keepsake with the camera in your pocket.
posted by gemmy at 2:09 PM on June 18, 2016 [5 favorites]
also, the absolute rudest phone users at a live performance i've ever seen were older npr crowd types
Oh god I can't go to the Lincoln plaza cinema anymore cause it's all these people and they are the rudest group of theatre goers I have ever seen. Straight up tablet using while on the phone set ups.
posted by The Whelk at 2:12 PM on June 18, 2016 [10 favorites]
Oh god I can't go to the Lincoln plaza cinema anymore cause it's all these people and they are the rudest group of theatre goers I have ever seen. Straight up tablet using while on the phone set ups.
posted by The Whelk at 2:12 PM on June 18, 2016 [10 favorites]
I am an Old. And frankly, the person who is performing on stage has put their life into making something for you to watch, which you have paid some hard earned cash for. Don't you want to be present for that?
I used to go to clubs in NYC when I was a yout'. One night we all went in and in the basement of Kenny's castaways, this woman who was pierced everywhere with safety pins sang so amazingly I can see and hear her to this day when I conjure the memory. I don't have a record of her anywhere but in my head, so I don't know her name or what happened to her. I like it that way. YMMV.
posted by LuckyMonkey21 at 2:15 PM on June 18, 2016 [20 favorites]
I used to go to clubs in NYC when I was a yout'. One night we all went in and in the basement of Kenny's castaways, this woman who was pierced everywhere with safety pins sang so amazingly I can see and hear her to this day when I conjure the memory. I don't have a record of her anywhere but in my head, so I don't know her name or what happened to her. I like it that way. YMMV.
posted by LuckyMonkey21 at 2:15 PM on June 18, 2016 [20 favorites]
I go to quite a few small rock shows, mostly in the midwest, though my experience in the rest of the US has been the same -- lots of people with phones out to take a least a couple pictures, plus lots of people just texting or whatever. This latter is, I think, an extension of many showgoers' tendency to pay no attention to the show and just spend the whole time talking loudly in small groups.
Last week I was in Fukuoka for a conference, and my wife and I went to a show at a small basement venue. There were maybe 50 people there, late teens and 20-somethings mostly, and nobody had their phones out during the sets. My wife and I were in the back and felt a little self-conscious taking a few pictures. The whole show (four bands) I saw one other person take one picture on her phone, although the obligatory two-camera-bags man was there shooting for a little bit. Also: No talking during the sets, at all. It was a very interesting experience and totally at odds with basically every show I've ever been to. (And if you're in Japan and like energetic indie pop, FEEDWIT puts on a good show.)
posted by aaronetc at 2:17 PM on June 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
Last week I was in Fukuoka for a conference, and my wife and I went to a show at a small basement venue. There were maybe 50 people there, late teens and 20-somethings mostly, and nobody had their phones out during the sets. My wife and I were in the back and felt a little self-conscious taking a few pictures. The whole show (four bands) I saw one other person take one picture on her phone, although the obligatory two-camera-bags man was there shooting for a little bit. Also: No talking during the sets, at all. It was a very interesting experience and totally at odds with basically every show I've ever been to. (And if you're in Japan and like energetic indie pop, FEEDWIT puts on a good show.)
posted by aaronetc at 2:17 PM on June 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
Thinking about it, smartphones are a real lifesaver between the sets. I go to plenty of shows by myself, and the half hour between sets is not painful at all when I've got the entire internet with me. I have no idea what people did pre-smartphone: stare off into the middle distance while drinking a beer? Actually talk to strangers?
posted by naju at 2:24 PM on June 18, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by naju at 2:24 PM on June 18, 2016 [12 favorites]
This is a dumb idea. Remember the concert in Paris? Phones are safety.
posted by oceanjesse at 2:26 PM on June 18, 2016 [29 favorites]
posted by oceanjesse at 2:26 PM on June 18, 2016 [29 favorites]
A pub near me is offering a 20% discount to customers on Wednesdays for anyone who doesn't take out their phone during the meal.
posted by octothorpe at 2:28 PM on June 18, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 2:28 PM on June 18, 2016 [11 favorites]
Good. I don't know how many times I've had to experience part of a band's set through the screen of the dick hole standing in front of me who's decided to document the ENTIRE song for posterity.
posted by photoslob at 2:42 PM on June 18, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by photoslob at 2:42 PM on June 18, 2016 [10 favorites]
We went to see Sarah Silverman a couple of weeks ago, and her opening act basically ruined his own performance because he got so caught up in trying to get an audience member to stop using their phone. Silverman was using the show to work on new material, so her performance wasn't all that great, but I could totally see how/why she would not want the new material leaked online or her less-than-awesome performance of it. I get that this is a huge deal for comedians, and the Yondr thing seems like a fair way to deal with it. I like to take one or or two non-flash photos at performances, but I can totally live without it.
posted by briank at 2:45 PM on June 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by briank at 2:45 PM on June 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
Instead of preventing people from using their phone/cameras perhaps performers should find ways to adapt to the current situation instead of trying to hold onto the good old days.
It is very common for photo passes for photographers at concerts to restrict them to only shooting during the first three songs. If the audience could be trusted to obey such an agreement if it pertained to the entire audience, it would be lovely - get all your selfies and video and whatnot at the beginning but then put your devices away and actually watch the show.
The big issue is that it's disruptive to other people in the audience - it's not just artists being prima donnas. People constantly holding up bright, distracting objects disrupts multiple people behind them's view and experience.
posted by Candleman at 2:45 PM on June 18, 2016 [23 favorites]
It is very common for photo passes for photographers at concerts to restrict them to only shooting during the first three songs. If the audience could be trusted to obey such an agreement if it pertained to the entire audience, it would be lovely - get all your selfies and video and whatnot at the beginning but then put your devices away and actually watch the show.
The big issue is that it's disruptive to other people in the audience - it's not just artists being prima donnas. People constantly holding up bright, distracting objects disrupts multiple people behind them's view and experience.
posted by Candleman at 2:45 PM on June 18, 2016 [23 favorites]
I often don't carry a phone. So am I now going to be automatically subjected to a full body patdown for failing to turn over a non-existent phone?
posted by 256 at 2:54 PM on June 18, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by 256 at 2:54 PM on June 18, 2016 [6 favorites]
I put my phone in a bag to see Dave Chappelle and it was great. He had some bits in the middle of his set that were rough. They were offensive and weren't landing right. They were also absolutely necessary for his closer. It was mind blowing. If somebody had recorded and uploaded the middle bits without the closer it would have caused a lot of Internet yelling and we'd lose Dave for another decade. The freedom to build an hour long set in context was only really possible because nobody had recording devices.
posted by Uncle at 3:15 PM on June 18, 2016 [32 favorites]
posted by Uncle at 3:15 PM on June 18, 2016 [32 favorites]
And if you're in Japan and like energetic indie pop, FEEDWIT puts on a good show.
Know what is good about the state of technology these days? I can go to YouTube and FEEDWIT is immediately available. I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise, but I find it delightful.
posted by mr. digits at 3:20 PM on June 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
Know what is good about the state of technology these days? I can go to YouTube and FEEDWIT is immediately available. I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise, but I find it delightful.
posted by mr. digits at 3:20 PM on June 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is a dumb idea. Remember the concert in Paris? Phones are safety.
yeah, this. also, pre-cellphones, going out with more than one person involved ridiculous levels of organization and planning so you don't lose someone on the way or have someone stuck outside, ticketless, when their train is late or whatever. having to go back to that kind of tiresome bullshit at this point is like, lol, no thanks, i'll skip your shitty fucking show.
posted by poffin boffin at 3:23 PM on June 18, 2016 [14 favorites]
yeah, this. also, pre-cellphones, going out with more than one person involved ridiculous levels of organization and planning so you don't lose someone on the way or have someone stuck outside, ticketless, when their train is late or whatever. having to go back to that kind of tiresome bullshit at this point is like, lol, no thanks, i'll skip your shitty fucking show.
posted by poffin boffin at 3:23 PM on June 18, 2016 [14 favorites]
oceanjesse: This is a dumb idea. Remember the concert in Paris? Phones are safety.
I disagree. I'm sure at an event where the audience doesn't have phones, almost every security guard, bartender, usher, roadie still has their cell phone, along with box office hard lines. It's not like it's suddenly the Bermuda Triangle of communication. There is no functional difference between 400 people calling 911 versus 30 people calling 911. The call centers only have so much capacity and they can't send SWAT any faster. If we're trusting cell phones to keep us safe from crazy assholes with guns, I'd argue it's a false sense of security. If we're talking the ability to text goodbye to loved ones, yes, as horrible a thing to plan for as it is. I'd rather they didn't have guns to begin with than to pretend phones make me any more safe in this instance.
posted by bluecore at 3:25 PM on June 18, 2016 [77 favorites]
I disagree. I'm sure at an event where the audience doesn't have phones, almost every security guard, bartender, usher, roadie still has their cell phone, along with box office hard lines. It's not like it's suddenly the Bermuda Triangle of communication. There is no functional difference between 400 people calling 911 versus 30 people calling 911. The call centers only have so much capacity and they can't send SWAT any faster. If we're trusting cell phones to keep us safe from crazy assholes with guns, I'd argue it's a false sense of security. If we're talking the ability to text goodbye to loved ones, yes, as horrible a thing to plan for as it is. I'd rather they didn't have guns to begin with than to pretend phones make me any more safe in this instance.
posted by bluecore at 3:25 PM on June 18, 2016 [77 favorites]
I'm at a venue right now , but it's an ampatheater and it's still really bright outside. (I'm at piqniq). So the phones aren't bothering me at am at the moment, but I can see how this would be really useful device.
I have admittedly taken a couple pics and am now posting here between sets.
posted by AlexiaSky at 3:26 PM on June 18, 2016
I have admittedly taken a couple pics and am now posting here between sets.
posted by AlexiaSky at 3:26 PM on June 18, 2016
I wonder if locking things up is really necessary. Maybe it would be sufficient just to get people to think about it. So instead of physically locking their phones, you give them a paper envelope that is sealed that they'd have to tear open to access the phone. I bet that would work in 99% of the cases.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 3:32 PM on June 18, 2016 [25 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 3:32 PM on June 18, 2016 [25 favorites]
If we're trusting cell phones to keep us safe from crazy assholes with guns, I'd argue it's a false sense of security
I'm trusting cell phones to help me find my friends while i'm lost and/or drunk in a venue and some handsy creeper is sexually harassing or assaulting me. no security guard is going to 01) text my friends (whose phone numbers i can't remember anyway) for me or 02) leave their post to help me wander around to find them. and tbh most of them don't give a fuck when some guy is groping you.
posted by poffin boffin at 3:35 PM on June 18, 2016 [30 favorites]
I'm trusting cell phones to help me find my friends while i'm lost and/or drunk in a venue and some handsy creeper is sexually harassing or assaulting me. no security guard is going to 01) text my friends (whose phone numbers i can't remember anyway) for me or 02) leave their post to help me wander around to find them. and tbh most of them don't give a fuck when some guy is groping you.
posted by poffin boffin at 3:35 PM on June 18, 2016 [30 favorites]
I wonder if locking things up is really necessary. Maybe it would be sufficient just to get people to think about it. So instead of physically locking their phones, you give them a paper envelope that is sealed that they'd have to tear open to access the phone. I bet that would work in 99% of the cases.
I see you've never had a customer service job.
posted by bluecore at 3:35 PM on June 18, 2016 [21 favorites]
I see you've never had a customer service job.
posted by bluecore at 3:35 PM on June 18, 2016 [21 favorites]
This is a dumb idea. Remember the concert in Paris? Phones are safety.
Will every new idea in concertgoing be run through the lens of "does this prepare us for a rare, horrific act of violence?" That would be pretty sad.
posted by indubitable at 3:37 PM on June 18, 2016 [63 favorites]
Will every new idea in concertgoing be run through the lens of "does this prepare us for a rare, horrific act of violence?" That would be pretty sad.
posted by indubitable at 3:37 PM on June 18, 2016 [63 favorites]
I wonder if locking things up is really necessary. Maybe it would be sufficient just to get people to think about it. So instead of physically locking their phones, you give them a paper envelope that is sealed that they'd have to tear open to access the phone. I bet that would work in 99% of the cases.
Hell, we could just make it an app!
posted by oulipian at 3:37 PM on June 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hell, we could just make it an app!
posted by oulipian at 3:37 PM on June 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
poffin boffin: I'm trusting cell phones to help me find my friends while i'm lost and/or drunk in a venue and some handsy creeper
That's a good point, although the comment I was responding to was about armed gunmen in Paris.
posted by bluecore at 3:37 PM on June 18, 2016
That's a good point, although the comment I was responding to was about armed gunmen in Paris.
posted by bluecore at 3:37 PM on June 18, 2016
Thank God! I have even seen people with fucking ipads in the theater, and I mean live theater, not film. Filming and breaking people's sightline when we paid $50. People are just too stupid and too rude and can't be trusted not to be. It's about time; I"m sick of paying good money to watch other people's fucking phones. Not to mention the distraction for the performers.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 3:39 PM on June 18, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 3:39 PM on June 18, 2016 [6 favorites]
BTW this is a huge hassle and pain in the ass but that's what you get. And security guards can call for help, if they can't provide it in serious emergencies.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 3:41 PM on June 18, 2016
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 3:41 PM on June 18, 2016
"Yondr", because "ThisIsWhyWeCan'tHaveNiceThings" wouldn't fit on the bag.
posted by Etrigan at 3:43 PM on June 18, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 3:43 PM on June 18, 2016 [15 favorites]
Even one photo without flash requires shining a bright light in the faces of people behind you.
I'd feel a lot differently about this if people could / would take photos or video with their screens off.
posted by straight at 3:44 PM on June 18, 2016 [7 favorites]
I'd feel a lot differently about this if people could / would take photos or video with their screens off.
posted by straight at 3:44 PM on June 18, 2016 [7 favorites]
Hell, we could just make it an app!
Cinemark has an app with CineMode that gives you reward points during movies to lock your phone into their app. I'd love these baggies for theaters. Lock those things in a locker. I'm fucking tired of having every god damn movie I go to (literally. every. single. one) interrupted by a bright screen and some inconsiderate asshat who needs to text everyone they know. I'm at the point I don't even go to a movie anymore unless it's Sunday at 11 am so I can miss any other humans on the planet who all have collectively decided that this is perfectly acceptable behavior. I'd love it for the FCC to make an emergency frequency available for calls only and then we can put in cellphone jammers that kill every data pipe inside the building. And if that makes me a grumpy old man, well then tighten up the pants and get off my lawn.
posted by msbutah at 3:47 PM on June 18, 2016 [17 favorites]
Cinemark has an app with CineMode that gives you reward points during movies to lock your phone into their app. I'd love these baggies for theaters. Lock those things in a locker. I'm fucking tired of having every god damn movie I go to (literally. every. single. one) interrupted by a bright screen and some inconsiderate asshat who needs to text everyone they know. I'm at the point I don't even go to a movie anymore unless it's Sunday at 11 am so I can miss any other humans on the planet who all have collectively decided that this is perfectly acceptable behavior. I'd love it for the FCC to make an emergency frequency available for calls only and then we can put in cellphone jammers that kill every data pipe inside the building. And if that makes me a grumpy old man, well then tighten up the pants and get off my lawn.
posted by msbutah at 3:47 PM on June 18, 2016 [17 favorites]
Also the title of the thread also nails what's also annoying about it: why can't people just enjoy the live experience? Is everything about documentation and demonstrating to the world what a rockin' life you lead and how much fun you had? Can't you just have the fun and enjoy the show without letting the world know you were there?
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 3:49 PM on June 18, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 3:49 PM on June 18, 2016 [8 favorites]
Of course I don't want to force my open/free culture ideas on people but I don't have much patience for those artists who reject those same ideas.
It's not just rich artists being affected though, it's the struggling ones too who are trying to make a living off of doing their art. I think you can only say "Oh, I will share my creative work with the whole world for free" if you're fortunate enough to have alternative sources of income that can support you while you're doing whatever you want.
I just entered my thirties and this is really highlighting for me how my childhood/young adulthood really straddled the line between the pre-mobile and post-mobile technology world. Like, people not five years younger than me haven't been without a cell phone since middle school or earlier.
Anyway I think this is a really great idea.
posted by Anonymous at 3:54 PM on June 18, 2016
It's not just rich artists being affected though, it's the struggling ones too who are trying to make a living off of doing their art. I think you can only say "Oh, I will share my creative work with the whole world for free" if you're fortunate enough to have alternative sources of income that can support you while you're doing whatever you want.
I just entered my thirties and this is really highlighting for me how my childhood/young adulthood really straddled the line between the pre-mobile and post-mobile technology world. Like, people not five years younger than me haven't been without a cell phone since middle school or earlier.
Anyway I think this is a really great idea.
posted by Anonymous at 3:54 PM on June 18, 2016
Me personally, IDGAF if the world knows I'm there. I snap a few pics and vids so that, a few years from now, when all I can remember about a show is that I was there, I can jog my memory and relive a great night.
posted by Monochrome at 3:55 PM on June 18, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Monochrome at 3:55 PM on June 18, 2016 [7 favorites]
During a show? Yes, by all means, make sure my phone is useless, I don't actually care and would be fine putting it in a pouch.
But man, I still remember when Sonic Youth took, like, an hour to set up after Stereolab opened for them, and I'm not saying that I can't stand around for an hour doing nothing, but it's pretty damned boring. But I guess I could bring a book, like we used to do in the old days?
Also, I would probably never go to a show big enough to have this sort of thing, so really I'm just yelling at clouds at this point.
posted by chrominance at 3:57 PM on June 18, 2016 [5 favorites]
But man, I still remember when Sonic Youth took, like, an hour to set up after Stereolab opened for them, and I'm not saying that I can't stand around for an hour doing nothing, but it's pretty damned boring. But I guess I could bring a book, like we used to do in the old days?
Also, I would probably never go to a show big enough to have this sort of thing, so really I'm just yelling at clouds at this point.
posted by chrominance at 3:57 PM on June 18, 2016 [5 favorites]
LuckyMonkey21: "Don't you want to be present for that? "
I realise lots of people seem concentrated on their screens but it is possible to use devices and still be present. Besides why police how other people are enjoying something they payed for? You never see people say "Please venue, use Yondr so I won't be able to use my phone and therefor enjoy the show more." It's always to control the other guy. I understand when one is complaining about the screen bothering one's enjoyment but being concerned about the the guy with the screen's enjoyment? Who cares?
LuckyMonkey21: " I don't have a record of her anywhere but in my head, so I don't know her name or what happened to her. I like it that way. YMMV."
A lot. My memory blows, pictures are a huge memory aid for me. On preview, what Monochrome said.
poffin boffin: "also, pre-cellphones, going out with more than one person involved ridiculous levels of organization and planning so you don't lose someone on the way or have someone stuck outside, ticketless, when their train is late or whatever. "
Also when we we're restricted to landlines there used to be someone at most venues who would answer the phone and then come get you in an emergency. Now you are lucky to find a phone number that is answered during business hours let alone that connects to someone willing to pull you out of the event. Restricting phones like this severely crimps the recreational possibilities for people with kids or people working on call.
However looking at the Ars link it appears it doesn't block signals to the phone so you'll be able to hear rings at the trade off that participants who would otherwise leave their phones on vibrate will set their phones to be noisy.
msbutah: "I'd love it for the FCC to make an emergency frequency available for calls only"
Technically impossible.
posted by Mitheral at 3:57 PM on June 18, 2016 [6 favorites]
I realise lots of people seem concentrated on their screens but it is possible to use devices and still be present. Besides why police how other people are enjoying something they payed for? You never see people say "Please venue, use Yondr so I won't be able to use my phone and therefor enjoy the show more." It's always to control the other guy. I understand when one is complaining about the screen bothering one's enjoyment but being concerned about the the guy with the screen's enjoyment? Who cares?
LuckyMonkey21: " I don't have a record of her anywhere but in my head, so I don't know her name or what happened to her. I like it that way. YMMV."
A lot. My memory blows, pictures are a huge memory aid for me. On preview, what Monochrome said.
poffin boffin: "also, pre-cellphones, going out with more than one person involved ridiculous levels of organization and planning so you don't lose someone on the way or have someone stuck outside, ticketless, when their train is late or whatever. "
Also when we we're restricted to landlines there used to be someone at most venues who would answer the phone and then come get you in an emergency. Now you are lucky to find a phone number that is answered during business hours let alone that connects to someone willing to pull you out of the event. Restricting phones like this severely crimps the recreational possibilities for people with kids or people working on call.
However looking at the Ars link it appears it doesn't block signals to the phone so you'll be able to hear rings at the trade off that participants who would otherwise leave their phones on vibrate will set their phones to be noisy.
msbutah: "I'd love it for the FCC to make an emergency frequency available for calls only"
Technically impossible.
posted by Mitheral at 3:57 PM on June 18, 2016 [6 favorites]
How does this yondr thing handle it when someone puts their phone in the bag, and then it proceeds to ring constantly and make lots of noise, and they can't turn it off, because its locked in a bag?
posted by dis_integration at 4:04 PM on June 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 4:04 PM on June 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
Faraday yondrs?
posted by Night_owl at 4:20 PM on June 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Night_owl at 4:20 PM on June 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
Besides why police how other people are enjoying something they payed for? Because in a darkened venue that one person is disrupting the event for dozens of other people.
posted by ElKevbo at 4:22 PM on June 18, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by ElKevbo at 4:22 PM on June 18, 2016 [27 favorites]
Can I get this for my classroom? I'm 100% serious — I'm on their website now, and I don't see pricing info, but I'm contacting them. This would be huge for teachers.
posted by kikaider01 at 4:32 PM on June 18, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by kikaider01 at 4:32 PM on June 18, 2016 [13 favorites]
See, this is what happens when you assume it's okay to redefine what is socially polite without taking a vote first or even saying excuse me, do you mind? You can't just redefine decades of social politeness as if it's no big thing, so this is what ends up happening: phones in bags. If you can't make socially good decisions on your own, or at least deviate in a moderately polite fashion, someone will eventually be making them for you.
Coming (hopefully) to a theater near you.
posted by SpacemanStix at 4:41 PM on June 18, 2016 [6 favorites]
Coming (hopefully) to a theater near you.
posted by SpacemanStix at 4:41 PM on June 18, 2016 [6 favorites]
ElKevbo: "Besides why police how other people are enjoying something they payed for? Because in a darkened venue that one person is disrupting the event for dozens of other people."
Which I acknowledged shortly afterward. If how someone is acting is reducing your enjoyment then complain about that not that the person isn't enjoying it properly.
posted by Mitheral at 4:49 PM on June 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
Which I acknowledged shortly afterward. If how someone is acting is reducing your enjoyment then complain about that not that the person isn't enjoying it properly.
posted by Mitheral at 4:49 PM on June 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
Cheesedigestsall, that envelope idea is amazing. I teach high school and may figure out a way to use that. Thanks
posted by wester at 4:51 PM on June 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by wester at 4:51 PM on June 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
As frustrating as the constant photographers can be, last night I was appalled to see how many folks were not just recording the show (many on tablets), but live streaming it to their Facebook feeds. I'm not sure why, but that bothered me even more than standard recording of the entire set. I can admit, it might be a nice way to share a time with absent friends, but......it rubbed me entirely wrong.
posted by polexxia at 4:55 PM on June 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by polexxia at 4:55 PM on June 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
> Besides why police how other people are enjoying something they payed for?
Because it's really annoying to everyone else. Because if you hold up your stupid cell phone in front of your face, it's automatically in front of MY face if I am behind you. Because I often literally cannot see the band for people holding up phones. Because it's hard for my eye not to wander onto one of the screens with moving things on them if there are dozens of them - because that's how eyes work.
As a performer: because I often look out over the audience to make eye contact and see a couple of people focusing into their machines, and it breaks my focus because I get a flash of annoyance. And honestly, if I could magically make the phone vanish at that point, never to return, I'd do it and deny everything.
I work pretty damn hard to make my shows exciting - if you want to use your machine just step outside, please!
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 4:57 PM on June 18, 2016 [25 favorites]
Because it's really annoying to everyone else. Because if you hold up your stupid cell phone in front of your face, it's automatically in front of MY face if I am behind you. Because I often literally cannot see the band for people holding up phones. Because it's hard for my eye not to wander onto one of the screens with moving things on them if there are dozens of them - because that's how eyes work.
As a performer: because I often look out over the audience to make eye contact and see a couple of people focusing into their machines, and it breaks my focus because I get a flash of annoyance. And honestly, if I could magically make the phone vanish at that point, never to return, I'd do it and deny everything.
I work pretty damn hard to make my shows exciting - if you want to use your machine just step outside, please!
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 4:57 PM on June 18, 2016 [25 favorites]
I think phones at shows should be up the artist. I think the bags should be just hard enough to open to convey the message, but not so hard that they'd be an impediment in an emergency.
In fact, I bet placing a removable sticker on the phone's screen that says "I promise not to use this device except in an emergency" would do the trick just as well, without making people fear for their safety.
And if this arrangement sparks massive outrage or cratering revenue from live performances, venues will drop issue right quick and we Olds will just suck it up.
posted by ducky l'orange at 5:06 PM on June 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
In fact, I bet placing a removable sticker on the phone's screen that says "I promise not to use this device except in an emergency" would do the trick just as well, without making people fear for their safety.
And if this arrangement sparks massive outrage or cratering revenue from live performances, venues will drop issue right quick and we Olds will just suck it up.
posted by ducky l'orange at 5:06 PM on June 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
I wish someone would run a proper experiment on the just an envelope/just a sticker version. My intuition is that it would only be marginally better than asking people nicely not to use their phones, which we know empirically to be only marginally better than saying "Please, everyone, use your phones as much as you can! Light this darkened room up like a Christmas tree! Free drinks to whoever puts the most embarassing clam on YouTube!"
But maybe it's a counterintuitive Malcolm Gladwell deal and it would actually click an evo-psych tipping point or something.
posted by No-sword at 5:20 PM on June 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
But maybe it's a counterintuitive Malcolm Gladwell deal and it would actually click an evo-psych tipping point or something.
posted by No-sword at 5:20 PM on June 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
The thing is, like on a train's quiet car, the real enforcement is patron to patron. So every time somone tore open the envelope they'd have to endure the glares of 100 busybodies. So I think that'd work is what I'm saying, though whether it's a good idea or not I leave to you few brave folks who still bother to leave the house after 8pm.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:33 PM on June 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:33 PM on June 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
Isn't that when the Snake People come out?!
posted by No-sword at 5:35 PM on June 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by No-sword at 5:35 PM on June 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
How Taking Photos Increases Your Enjoyment of an Experience
I don't really know where I sit on this continuum. I do know that last weekend at the Cure show when Pictures of You Started and the stadium lit up with people filming it, I was charmed. But the thought of someone waving a giant i-pad around a darkened theatre is awful.
That article was pretty light on not just the technology details but also on the logistics. It's already too much hassle to get my purse searched and my body wanded to get in, but now we all have to wait to get our phones released to us? Fuck that.
And I have no pockets big enough to hold my phone (because no-one will sell me a rationally-sized smartphone anymore) and few handbags that are reasonably-sized for attaching to my person while I'm in a crowded venue or crammed into a theatre seat AND will hold a smartphone. Once it's in some special sack, what am I supposed to do with it? Hold in my hand for the next three hours, in a crowd? What if I have to go to the bathroom?
I get that artists need a free space and I get that inconsiderate or excessive phone use detracts from the experience of those around you. But this sack thing sounds pretty inconsiderate to the adults coming to your venue, too.
posted by crush-onastick at 6:20 PM on June 18, 2016 [6 favorites]
I don't really know where I sit on this continuum. I do know that last weekend at the Cure show when Pictures of You Started and the stadium lit up with people filming it, I was charmed. But the thought of someone waving a giant i-pad around a darkened theatre is awful.
That article was pretty light on not just the technology details but also on the logistics. It's already too much hassle to get my purse searched and my body wanded to get in, but now we all have to wait to get our phones released to us? Fuck that.
And I have no pockets big enough to hold my phone (because no-one will sell me a rationally-sized smartphone anymore) and few handbags that are reasonably-sized for attaching to my person while I'm in a crowded venue or crammed into a theatre seat AND will hold a smartphone. Once it's in some special sack, what am I supposed to do with it? Hold in my hand for the next three hours, in a crowd? What if I have to go to the bathroom?
I get that artists need a free space and I get that inconsiderate or excessive phone use detracts from the experience of those around you. But this sack thing sounds pretty inconsiderate to the adults coming to your venue, too.
posted by crush-onastick at 6:20 PM on June 18, 2016 [6 favorites]
Don't you want to be present for that?
I really hate this line of reasoning. What does it mean to "be present"?
I'm one of those people who rarely stops to take pictures. It just doesn't occur to me. But when I do, I often find myself paying more attention -- because I'm thinking about what it is I want to capture. And then later, I have records--to help my memory, to share with friends--that are personally valuable to me. I want to record things because there is something about them that is important.
The reason I don't do this at movies or shows is because it's distracting to other people. That's it. Not because of some curmudgeonly idea that if I'm using my phone, I'm not "present."
I think the real solution to this issue will ultimately be a compromise, because you're not going to convince people that they're enjoying themselves wrong. Perhaps shows will have staff record short clips that attendees can download, or there will be songs where phones are allowed, or there will be a technological solution that makes filming less obvious/distracting, etc.
Like, I sincerely do believe that using your phone at a concert/show is usually rude, but that's the problem.
Also the talk about how recordings ruin the "mystery" of shows just reminds me, bitterly, that I don't have the time or money to attend a lot of things that I'd like to. And lol to the idea that people will use terrible phone videos as a substitute for actually going to the show.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:25 PM on June 18, 2016 [12 favorites]
I really hate this line of reasoning. What does it mean to "be present"?
I'm one of those people who rarely stops to take pictures. It just doesn't occur to me. But when I do, I often find myself paying more attention -- because I'm thinking about what it is I want to capture. And then later, I have records--to help my memory, to share with friends--that are personally valuable to me. I want to record things because there is something about them that is important.
The reason I don't do this at movies or shows is because it's distracting to other people. That's it. Not because of some curmudgeonly idea that if I'm using my phone, I'm not "present."
I think the real solution to this issue will ultimately be a compromise, because you're not going to convince people that they're enjoying themselves wrong. Perhaps shows will have staff record short clips that attendees can download, or there will be songs where phones are allowed, or there will be a technological solution that makes filming less obvious/distracting, etc.
Like, I sincerely do believe that using your phone at a concert/show is usually rude, but that's the problem.
Also the talk about how recordings ruin the "mystery" of shows just reminds me, bitterly, that I don't have the time or money to attend a lot of things that I'd like to. And lol to the idea that people will use terrible phone videos as a substitute for actually going to the show.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:25 PM on June 18, 2016 [12 favorites]
If you're gonna record and pass it around, use a real good recording device. One of those Zoom things, at the minimum. A phone doesn't pass muster for any purpose I can think of.
posted by naju at 6:50 PM on June 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by naju at 6:50 PM on June 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
When the wife and I go out, the last thing we say to the kids is "text if you have a question, call if it's an emergency". I'd be disappointed if I couldn't glance at my phone every once in a while to check in
posted by TheShadowKnows at 7:13 PM on June 18, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by TheShadowKnows at 7:13 PM on June 18, 2016 [8 favorites]
As someone who mostly listens to classical music, I haven't really been bothered by cell phones at concerts. What usually gets me are the folks inevitably sitting behind me who snore, and clear their throats, and yammer on about what cousin Ethel did at the condo association meeting, and unwrap their cellophane-wrapped candy so, so slowly. If we could require them to encase their heads in a soundproof package, that might go a long way.
posted by Daily Alice at 7:14 PM on June 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Daily Alice at 7:14 PM on June 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
Most people aren't going to buy a special device to make recordings at shows. They're going to use what they have in their pocket. (And Zooms don't take video.)
Very few people are taking photos and videos at shows because they're trying to get the best quality audio and video. That's not ... the point. They just want a memento.
The ones who ARE trying to get the best quality audio and video are the bootleggers. That's a whole different problem than audience members using their cellphones.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:34 PM on June 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
Very few people are taking photos and videos at shows because they're trying to get the best quality audio and video. That's not ... the point. They just want a memento.
The ones who ARE trying to get the best quality audio and video are the bootleggers. That's a whole different problem than audience members using their cellphones.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:34 PM on June 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
Every new cell phone 'free' place/event is another great excuse for me to not respond immediately to every petty, non-urgent, irritating work text.
Bring 'em on, I'm tired of the digital leash.
posted by rock swoon has no past at 7:35 PM on June 18, 2016 [7 favorites]
Bring 'em on, I'm tired of the digital leash.
posted by rock swoon has no past at 7:35 PM on June 18, 2016 [7 favorites]
I think it can vary by the type of performance/venue. I usually perform in loud rock bands, and with the stage lights in my face and the volume on stage cellphones in the crowd are not really distracting. I would think for comedians, live theater, solo or acoustic or low-key music, things that have a more intimate audience, cell phones could extraordinarily distracting. This doesn't really seem like a good solution, but if you could make your audience just think about not being dicks prior to starting the show, maybe it would have an effect. And for fucks sake don't bring your ipad or tablet, that's just ridiculous.
posted by Existential Dread at 7:52 PM on June 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 7:52 PM on June 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
Now can we put everyone's hands in lockable rubber mitts to discourage clap alongs?
"Alright! Everybody put your hands together! Wait.. wait... I didn't say anything about taking them apart."
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:05 PM on June 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Alright! Everybody put your hands together! Wait.. wait... I didn't say anything about taking them apart."
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:05 PM on June 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
Heh. I used to take photos at gigs using a cheapo digital camera.
However, before starting I also asked a friend of mine to check to check all angles behind me to see if I would be any distracting, and found a way to place my hands and stick the camera to my face as much add possible so that there was minimal light coming out of it, and usually tried to take them between songs, and I'm sure anyone behind me had more problems that a 5'11 wide guy with a large head was in front of everyone than the 3 seconds it took me to snap a photo or checking the phone between songs.
Are they any good? They're something to reminisce a bit sometimes. Occasionally they're good. But if it was quality I'd be going for, I would have spent 5 times more to get an entry level semi-professional camera.
I did see the occasional guy trying to record a video with one of those tablet phones. That didn't look comfortable, and even during the day was distracting. Dude, at least dim the screen, or that won't last until dinnertime.
For the bands that complain about that, take a stance and refuse to play at any gig or festival or venue sponsored by a telecom or phone manufacturer company. Because a good percentage of the people in the crowd are not just paying their fee from the ticket, but also funding the company that bankrolls the event all year long.
I do see a bit of a problem with artists still perfecting a bit in front of limited audiences, and still seeing it splattered on YouTube before being happy with it.
But ask Hannibal Burress if his career would have taken off as quickly if someone didn't made a crappy recording of his Cosby bit.
posted by lmfsilva at 8:18 PM on June 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
However, before starting I also asked a friend of mine to check to check all angles behind me to see if I would be any distracting, and found a way to place my hands and stick the camera to my face as much add possible so that there was minimal light coming out of it, and usually tried to take them between songs, and I'm sure anyone behind me had more problems that a 5'11 wide guy with a large head was in front of everyone than the 3 seconds it took me to snap a photo or checking the phone between songs.
Are they any good? They're something to reminisce a bit sometimes. Occasionally they're good. But if it was quality I'd be going for, I would have spent 5 times more to get an entry level semi-professional camera.
I did see the occasional guy trying to record a video with one of those tablet phones. That didn't look comfortable, and even during the day was distracting. Dude, at least dim the screen, or that won't last until dinnertime.
For the bands that complain about that, take a stance and refuse to play at any gig or festival or venue sponsored by a telecom or phone manufacturer company. Because a good percentage of the people in the crowd are not just paying their fee from the ticket, but also funding the company that bankrolls the event all year long.
I do see a bit of a problem with artists still perfecting a bit in front of limited audiences, and still seeing it splattered on YouTube before being happy with it.
But ask Hannibal Burress if his career would have taken off as quickly if someone didn't made a crappy recording of his Cosby bit.
posted by lmfsilva at 8:18 PM on June 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
If you're gonna record and pass it around, use a real good recording device. One of those Zoom things, at the minimum. A phone doesn't pass muster for any purpose I can think of.
Here's the thing: although I don't go to concerts big enough to use these phone bags, and haven't in close to two decades, I DO go to concerts big enough that any camera I try to bring in larger than, oh, a Sony RX100, simply will not make it in. Your only recourse at that point is to go home and leave your camera there, and next time maybe figure out a way to snag yourself a press pass.
The joke is that generally speaking, most people using actual cameras will be far less intrusive than the jackoff hoisting his camera screen up in front of everyone's faces. For one, most actual photographers have mastered the art of trying to be as small as possible so people don't yell at them for this exact reason. For two, cameras are actually built for taking photos, and tend to have viewfinders that allow people to take photos without blinding everyone behind them. And yet the first things to be banned from many venues weren't cellphones, but cameras.
Look, I get that it's not my right to take photos during a concert, that I'm not paying for the privilege of doing so and that an artist may decide at any time that they don't want to be photographed. If I could take concert photos as a side gig with actual media credentials, I probably would, but that brings up all sorts of privileged-art-dabbling-job-stealer issues that also make me uncomfortable. I digress. The practice for so long has been that if you are taking photos in the worst way possible, shitty grainy blurry photos that don't impress anyone and bug the shit out of everyone behind you, you have traditionally been better protected and served than the person bringing an actual camera and trying to cram themselves into a corner so as to block the fewest sightlines possible.
So no, I'm not going to bring a nice camera instead of using my phone, because you haven't been able to do that for a very, very long time now unless you go to small shows, which is pretty much the only kind of show I'd gone to for years before I pretty much stopped going to shows altogether last year.
posted by chrominance at 9:02 PM on June 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
Here's the thing: although I don't go to concerts big enough to use these phone bags, and haven't in close to two decades, I DO go to concerts big enough that any camera I try to bring in larger than, oh, a Sony RX100, simply will not make it in. Your only recourse at that point is to go home and leave your camera there, and next time maybe figure out a way to snag yourself a press pass.
The joke is that generally speaking, most people using actual cameras will be far less intrusive than the jackoff hoisting his camera screen up in front of everyone's faces. For one, most actual photographers have mastered the art of trying to be as small as possible so people don't yell at them for this exact reason. For two, cameras are actually built for taking photos, and tend to have viewfinders that allow people to take photos without blinding everyone behind them. And yet the first things to be banned from many venues weren't cellphones, but cameras.
Look, I get that it's not my right to take photos during a concert, that I'm not paying for the privilege of doing so and that an artist may decide at any time that they don't want to be photographed. If I could take concert photos as a side gig with actual media credentials, I probably would, but that brings up all sorts of privileged-art-dabbling-job-stealer issues that also make me uncomfortable. I digress. The practice for so long has been that if you are taking photos in the worst way possible, shitty grainy blurry photos that don't impress anyone and bug the shit out of everyone behind you, you have traditionally been better protected and served than the person bringing an actual camera and trying to cram themselves into a corner so as to block the fewest sightlines possible.
So no, I'm not going to bring a nice camera instead of using my phone, because you haven't been able to do that for a very, very long time now unless you go to small shows, which is pretty much the only kind of show I'd gone to for years before I pretty much stopped going to shows altogether last year.
posted by chrominance at 9:02 PM on June 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm not policing anyone else. I did say that all I wanted was to be able to enjoy and remember a show my way. My way happens to not need a piece of plastic I am joined to the other 22 hours of the day. If yours does- have at it! But have some respect for the people around you who might not be into that. Like, dim your screen. Or try not to use flash. I have found sports setting is super good in low light and can do what you want it to.
By the way- the memory I described was about 25 years ago. Before cell phones and the internet wiped away my short term memory like Tommy Chong on a sunday
posted by LuckyMonkey21 at 9:13 PM on June 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
By the way- the memory I described was about 25 years ago. Before cell phones and the internet wiped away my short term memory like Tommy Chong on a sunday
posted by LuckyMonkey21 at 9:13 PM on June 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
Possibly coincidentally, Steven Archer of Ego Likeness and Stoneburner just posted this on Facebook:
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:18 PM on June 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
Oh... Hey people who come to my/our shows...(Disclosure: Steven and Donna are friends of mine.)
Feel free to spend your time on your phone. Really. It's totally cool. We all enjoy things in different ways... I being sketchbooks to shows and sit in the corner and draw while I watch the show.
Don't let people dictate what is and isn't ok to do at a show you payed to see. The performers are there for you. Not the other way around. It's not your job to validate them, you paid your money, enjoy the show in whatever way makes sense to you.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:18 PM on June 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
Try this for fun: a shithole door agent requires you to turn over your phone when it is, in fact, being used as a receiver for an embedded medical device. (Bluetooth LE is pretty fancy, y'all.) "I can't give you my phone" turns into "seriously, I can't give you my phone" turns into "are you seriously claiming I have to stand here, explain my medical history to a stranger, and pull up my shirt to show you a transmitter" turns into "fuck you, I'm not giving you my fucking phone, you dickhead." Fun times were had by ... oh wait, no one. It's real dehumanizing, let me tell you!
posted by introp at 9:21 PM on June 18, 2016 [23 favorites]
posted by introp at 9:21 PM on June 18, 2016 [23 favorites]
Am I the only one whose mind immediately went to all the ways a person could get around this? Bring a decoy phone (or two), for one thing. If you increase the rarity of Alecia Keys New Material recordings, you increase the value of the the recordings that still manage to get made.
Great idea for your average show though, where locking away 98% of bright distracting screens is almost as good as 100%.
Exposing your eyes to bright lights in a darkened space causes your pupils to narrow, dimming your vision and the vision of everyone around you, taking you out of the Other World the performer is working hard to transport you to. Not cool.
If I were Yondr I'd launch a sister service, where people can sign up to receive professional photos and (edited) videos from the show. Maybe make a selfie area in the back where you can get professional selfies taken if you're too restless to sit through an entire show. If people can easily get these digital artifacts with minimal effort, I think they'll be all for locking up their phones and enjoying the show in a phone-free environment.
posted by mantecol at 9:47 PM on June 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
Great idea for your average show though, where locking away 98% of bright distracting screens is almost as good as 100%.
Exposing your eyes to bright lights in a darkened space causes your pupils to narrow, dimming your vision and the vision of everyone around you, taking you out of the Other World the performer is working hard to transport you to. Not cool.
If I were Yondr I'd launch a sister service, where people can sign up to receive professional photos and (edited) videos from the show. Maybe make a selfie area in the back where you can get professional selfies taken if you're too restless to sit through an entire show. If people can easily get these digital artifacts with minimal effort, I think they'll be all for locking up their phones and enjoying the show in a phone-free environment.
posted by mantecol at 9:47 PM on June 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
Speaking as a parent who occasionally goes to shows, it's really important to me to know that if my babysitter texts me I'll be able to quickly look down and see what's going on. I mean, now that I have kids I really only manage to get to a couple live performances a year, but if I couldn't check my phone between songs I think that would quickly drop to zero.
Of course, now that I have children I'm officially too old for anyone involved with this device to give a shit about, so.
posted by town of cats at 9:49 PM on June 18, 2016 [6 favorites]
Of course, now that I have children I'm officially too old for anyone involved with this device to give a shit about, so.
posted by town of cats at 9:49 PM on June 18, 2016 [6 favorites]
mantecol: "Am I the only one whose mind immediately went to all the ways a person could get around this?"
Apple to bring out watch with built in camera?
posted by Mitheral at 10:01 PM on June 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
Apple to bring out watch with built in camera?
posted by Mitheral at 10:01 PM on June 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
I saw Dave Chappelle just a couple weeks ago and he had this. The venue said you could leave your phone in the car or use the little baggy and they used metal detectors/checked purses on top of it all.
Dave had a super transphobic 15 to 20 minute bit about Caitlyn Jenner. It was gross and disappointing and honestly if the clip got out to the internet he'd get a lot of rightfully deserved blowback. I regretted buying a ticket. I looked up for information afterwards and could only find a couple headlines about it.
All this to say, I know comedians are notorious about not wanting material to leak, but it just felt like maybe a comedian doesn't want his or her stuff on the internet because people will call them out on their offensive, unfunny jokes.
posted by SarahElizaP at 10:05 PM on June 18, 2016 [9 favorites]
Dave had a super transphobic 15 to 20 minute bit about Caitlyn Jenner. It was gross and disappointing and honestly if the clip got out to the internet he'd get a lot of rightfully deserved blowback. I regretted buying a ticket. I looked up for information afterwards and could only find a couple headlines about it.
All this to say, I know comedians are notorious about not wanting material to leak, but it just felt like maybe a comedian doesn't want his or her stuff on the internet because people will call them out on their offensive, unfunny jokes.
posted by SarahElizaP at 10:05 PM on June 18, 2016 [9 favorites]
I am torn by this. I think that, as mentioned above, that the performer or venue should tell you at or before the point of purchase that this is an electronic free show. Then I decide to attend under those terms or not.
As for babysitters needing to call or anyone to call me in an emergency, I did not get that. I always told our babysitters that if it is an emergency, call 911 first then call me. Generally, if I am at a show or even out to dinner, there is very little help I can be in an emergency. The best case is that I am half an hour away. I felt that part of the hiring process of getting a babysitter was picking someone you trust with your kids and that also means making decisions in an emergency.
I guess I just don't relate to someone not being able to put away their phone although I get that there are people who legit need to have it. So, tell me before I buy the tickets if I am going to be cut off or not.
posted by AugustWest at 10:08 PM on June 18, 2016 [5 favorites]
As for babysitters needing to call or anyone to call me in an emergency, I did not get that. I always told our babysitters that if it is an emergency, call 911 first then call me. Generally, if I am at a show or even out to dinner, there is very little help I can be in an emergency. The best case is that I am half an hour away. I felt that part of the hiring process of getting a babysitter was picking someone you trust with your kids and that also means making decisions in an emergency.
I guess I just don't relate to someone not being able to put away their phone although I get that there are people who legit need to have it. So, tell me before I buy the tickets if I am going to be cut off or not.
posted by AugustWest at 10:08 PM on June 18, 2016 [5 favorites]
There are a lot of emergencies that are more like "Water heater sprung a leak" than "Junior chugged a bottle of bleach".
posted by Mitheral at 10:23 PM on June 18, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 10:23 PM on June 18, 2016 [9 favorites]
See, this is what happens when you assume it's okay to redefine what is socially polite without taking a vote first or even saying excuse me, do you mind?They did take a vote but it was on tumblr so the olds lost.
posted by fullerine at 12:08 AM on June 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's not just rich artists being affected though, it's the struggling ones too who are trying to make a living off of doing their art.
Only rich artists like Alicia Keys will be able to afford the bag rental and admin, and anyway young bands actively use social media to build their fanbases. Exchanging of images, clips, gifs, vines etc all over the planet, within seconds of their recording, creates a conversation and buzz around them that outweighs the negative of people holding cameras at gigs (or when they meet you after, or in the street or wherever). My daughter is a teenager and the curation of this activity is equally important as listening to music.
I guess it's different for art jazz or something very serious, but the bulk of concerts are pop and rock. And even old Dylan fans will share latest versions of his notoriously mutating songs.
posted by Coda Tronca at 1:53 AM on June 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Only rich artists like Alicia Keys will be able to afford the bag rental and admin, and anyway young bands actively use social media to build their fanbases. Exchanging of images, clips, gifs, vines etc all over the planet, within seconds of their recording, creates a conversation and buzz around them that outweighs the negative of people holding cameras at gigs (or when they meet you after, or in the street or wherever). My daughter is a teenager and the curation of this activity is equally important as listening to music.
I guess it's different for art jazz or something very serious, but the bulk of concerts are pop and rock. And even old Dylan fans will share latest versions of his notoriously mutating songs.
posted by Coda Tronca at 1:53 AM on June 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Conservative reactionary nonsense. False nostalgia for a "real" past before there were cell phones.
posted by mary8nne at 3:45 AM on June 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by mary8nne at 3:45 AM on June 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
If how someone is acting is reducing your enjoyment then complain about that not that the person isn't enjoying it properly.
And when they say "fuck you, I paid for my ticket and I am going to enjoy the show the way I want, stop policing how I enjoy the show," and keep doing the thing that is disruptive, THEN what?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:07 AM on June 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
And when they say "fuck you, I paid for my ticket and I am going to enjoy the show the way I want, stop policing how I enjoy the show," and keep doing the thing that is disruptive, THEN what?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:07 AM on June 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'm all for artists having the right to control their performing space. And then I'm for consumers knowing which concerts they can go to and expect at least a modicum of people responding, live, to the live fucking show.
If you want to hear what the music sounded like a week from now, get bands to release concert recordings, like Phish has done for literally a decade.* The thrill of a live show is the experience of the show, as it's happening, which the recording of the performance necessarily precludes. This isn't a "reactionary throwback" or whatever the fuck—it's knowing the context of the fucking medium. When I go on a date, I don't take five hundred goddamn photographs, hoping to capture a spontaneous moment of connection or a future memory or what-have-you; maybe I take some pictures on vacation, or at random intervals within day-to-day life, but likewise, if my vacation involves some kind of event, I want to experience that event without simultaneously trying to frame it as an Experience.
I have one concert photo, which I took when I was nineteen, on the shittiest cell phone in the world, and it looks utterly visceral and fantastic. If I had friends who were truly wretched enough to care about what a bunch of musicians look like on a stage, I'd just show them that photo every time. "Yup, that's Grimes. Up close, she looks surprisingly like Tomas Kalnoky." No concert photo looks remotely interesting, ever, and no concert video is good enough to justify its taking.**
The genuine loss here, as I see it, is of an audience's ability to react to what's happening onstage. As a person paying for a live show, I want to be immersed in a crowd spontaneously reacting to what an artist does. I want that crowd to be focused on the stage, and not to be focused on their framing of the stage, because unless motherfucking Cloverfield breaks out mid-concert most people shooting things on their phones won't have an interesting reaction to goddamn anything, ever. The more people are shooting on cell phones, the duller the concert experience is, period, full stop, no exceptions.
I went to a Lady Gaga concert a few years back, was ten or so rows from the stage itself. Goddamn fantastic. Except literally nobody danced. Literally everybody shot full-concert videos of the entire goddamn show. There was zero movement during Bad Romance, Poker Face, Telephone, or Just fucking Dance. Gaga screamed, at one point: "DANCE, FUCKERS!" And nobody danced.
I went to an FFS show, more recently, which was hilariously bifurcated into Franz Ferdinand fans and Sparks fans. The FF fans, who were younger, closer to my age, spent the whole show on their phones, except during Take Me Out. The guy closest to me kept trying to make snide Pixies jokes to his girlfriend. Meanwhile, the Sparks fans had mostly grey hair, earplugs, and left before the encore so they could get home more quickly for their kids, and they rocked the fuck out.
If it makes me a reactionary bigot to, at the age of 25, side with the "old-school" philosophy that live performance should be about the live performance, then so be it. Fuck the young. The young also think smoking looks cool. Sometimes kids aren't the future, they're the brats who ought to be sat down in a corner or sent to bed without dessert. Let's not let the shittiest participants in a generation define what that generation consists of, hm?
* Why don't venues do this already? A let's say $300 investment into recording gear, though for $50 you're already outdoing the quality of every cell phone on the planet, and then you release audio the day after for $1 a show, and your costs are recuperated one show in. Even if you pay the people recording and releasing the music a living wage. And if you charge actual rates for the download, then you have a lucrative income stream and maybe you can pay the artist better too.
** I know many artists hate videos leaking of their shows, and think there's an ethical or even a legal argument to be made that concert videos are violations of an artist's rights. Which, if they disagree, back to the whole "make the venues do it" schtick! With artists opting in as they see fit.
posted by rorgy at 4:44 AM on June 19, 2016 [9 favorites]
If you want to hear what the music sounded like a week from now, get bands to release concert recordings, like Phish has done for literally a decade.* The thrill of a live show is the experience of the show, as it's happening, which the recording of the performance necessarily precludes. This isn't a "reactionary throwback" or whatever the fuck—it's knowing the context of the fucking medium. When I go on a date, I don't take five hundred goddamn photographs, hoping to capture a spontaneous moment of connection or a future memory or what-have-you; maybe I take some pictures on vacation, or at random intervals within day-to-day life, but likewise, if my vacation involves some kind of event, I want to experience that event without simultaneously trying to frame it as an Experience.
I have one concert photo, which I took when I was nineteen, on the shittiest cell phone in the world, and it looks utterly visceral and fantastic. If I had friends who were truly wretched enough to care about what a bunch of musicians look like on a stage, I'd just show them that photo every time. "Yup, that's Grimes. Up close, she looks surprisingly like Tomas Kalnoky." No concert photo looks remotely interesting, ever, and no concert video is good enough to justify its taking.**
The genuine loss here, as I see it, is of an audience's ability to react to what's happening onstage. As a person paying for a live show, I want to be immersed in a crowd spontaneously reacting to what an artist does. I want that crowd to be focused on the stage, and not to be focused on their framing of the stage, because unless motherfucking Cloverfield breaks out mid-concert most people shooting things on their phones won't have an interesting reaction to goddamn anything, ever. The more people are shooting on cell phones, the duller the concert experience is, period, full stop, no exceptions.
I went to a Lady Gaga concert a few years back, was ten or so rows from the stage itself. Goddamn fantastic. Except literally nobody danced. Literally everybody shot full-concert videos of the entire goddamn show. There was zero movement during Bad Romance, Poker Face, Telephone, or Just fucking Dance. Gaga screamed, at one point: "DANCE, FUCKERS!" And nobody danced.
I went to an FFS show, more recently, which was hilariously bifurcated into Franz Ferdinand fans and Sparks fans. The FF fans, who were younger, closer to my age, spent the whole show on their phones, except during Take Me Out. The guy closest to me kept trying to make snide Pixies jokes to his girlfriend. Meanwhile, the Sparks fans had mostly grey hair, earplugs, and left before the encore so they could get home more quickly for their kids, and they rocked the fuck out.
If it makes me a reactionary bigot to, at the age of 25, side with the "old-school" philosophy that live performance should be about the live performance, then so be it. Fuck the young. The young also think smoking looks cool. Sometimes kids aren't the future, they're the brats who ought to be sat down in a corner or sent to bed without dessert. Let's not let the shittiest participants in a generation define what that generation consists of, hm?
* Why don't venues do this already? A let's say $300 investment into recording gear, though for $50 you're already outdoing the quality of every cell phone on the planet, and then you release audio the day after for $1 a show, and your costs are recuperated one show in. Even if you pay the people recording and releasing the music a living wage. And if you charge actual rates for the download, then you have a lucrative income stream and maybe you can pay the artist better too.
** I know many artists hate videos leaking of their shows, and think there's an ethical or even a legal argument to be made that concert videos are violations of an artist's rights. Which, if they disagree, back to the whole "make the venues do it" schtick! With artists opting in as they see fit.
posted by rorgy at 4:44 AM on June 19, 2016 [9 favorites]
I have no idea what people did pre-smartphone: stare off into the middle distance while drinking a beer?
Oh my god. I went to a decent number of shows by myself in college when I was under 21, and it was pre-cellphones. Waiting around before and between sets was painful. I couldn't drink. I was horribly shy, so talking to strangers was right out. You just stood around.... thinking deep thoughts? You could smoke inside then, so you'd maybe have a cigarette while trying to look cool. I might have brought a book a few times. It's not like we knew any better, the idea of having the internet in your pocket was like an Inspector Gadget future dream. Waiting for things was boring, but it was just the way life was. Most of the time I went to shows with friends, so at least we could stand around talking.
I personally don't care for phones at shows and don't use mine for even a single picture, because I really like being in the headspace of watching the band and being absorbed in the music, and using my own phone would distract me. I don't really get the people who text during the whole show, didn't they buy a ticket to see the show? But having a phone operable before shows start has been really helpful to me lately, because my friends inevitably show up way later than I do, and it's nice to be able to text them where they can find me in the venue, so they don't have to wander around squeezing around people searching for me. So I don't love the idea of this phone bagging, but I get why some artists are doing it. It would be nice if we just had a social contract that people actually followed, so that people wouldn't be jerks with phones at shows, and we wouldn't be at the point where the phones have to get locked up. Before phones at shows were ever a problem, there was always the one seven foot tall guy standing directly in front of me, or a dancing-too-hard-guy constantly bumping into me... so I guess people will always be annoying when you're jammed together in a public place. When a crowd is great and a show really clicks between performer and audience, though, that's such an amazing feeling.
posted by banjo_and_the_pork at 5:05 AM on June 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oh my god. I went to a decent number of shows by myself in college when I was under 21, and it was pre-cellphones. Waiting around before and between sets was painful. I couldn't drink. I was horribly shy, so talking to strangers was right out. You just stood around.... thinking deep thoughts? You could smoke inside then, so you'd maybe have a cigarette while trying to look cool. I might have brought a book a few times. It's not like we knew any better, the idea of having the internet in your pocket was like an Inspector Gadget future dream. Waiting for things was boring, but it was just the way life was. Most of the time I went to shows with friends, so at least we could stand around talking.
I personally don't care for phones at shows and don't use mine for even a single picture, because I really like being in the headspace of watching the band and being absorbed in the music, and using my own phone would distract me. I don't really get the people who text during the whole show, didn't they buy a ticket to see the show? But having a phone operable before shows start has been really helpful to me lately, because my friends inevitably show up way later than I do, and it's nice to be able to text them where they can find me in the venue, so they don't have to wander around squeezing around people searching for me. So I don't love the idea of this phone bagging, but I get why some artists are doing it. It would be nice if we just had a social contract that people actually followed, so that people wouldn't be jerks with phones at shows, and we wouldn't be at the point where the phones have to get locked up. Before phones at shows were ever a problem, there was always the one seven foot tall guy standing directly in front of me, or a dancing-too-hard-guy constantly bumping into me... so I guess people will always be annoying when you're jammed together in a public place. When a crowd is great and a show really clicks between performer and audience, though, that's such an amazing feeling.
posted by banjo_and_the_pork at 5:05 AM on June 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Good for them.
Let's do thisat movies with people, too.
Fixed.
posted by Fizz at 5:13 AM on June 19, 2016
Let's do this
Fixed.
posted by Fizz at 5:13 AM on June 19, 2016
As a person paying for a live show, I want to be immersed in a crowd spontaneously reacting to what an artist does.
I think savvy artists now realise that 'the moment' lasts longer and is more diverse nowadays than it used to be, due to social media. The 'loss of self-control in spontaneous Bacchanalian ritual orgy of rock' moment was largely a mythic occurrence at gigs anyway, as many older posters are remembering. Saying 'I was at Woodstock' or 'I was at the Sex Pistols first gig' was almost always a better experience than actually being there, so that's what people have now embraced.
posted by Coda Tronca at 5:14 AM on June 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think savvy artists now realise that 'the moment' lasts longer and is more diverse nowadays than it used to be, due to social media. The 'loss of self-control in spontaneous Bacchanalian ritual orgy of rock' moment was largely a mythic occurrence at gigs anyway, as many older posters are remembering. Saying 'I was at Woodstock' or 'I was at the Sex Pistols first gig' was almost always a better experience than actually being there, so that's what people have now embraced.
posted by Coda Tronca at 5:14 AM on June 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also, kind of heavy irony that Alicia Keys used to be officially the Creative Director for Blackberry...
"During her time as creative director Ms Keys was involved with Blackberry's Keep Moving project ... she encouraged fans to send pictures to the project to be used on her 2013 tour."
Seems like she had a more up-to-date idea of 'the moment' in those days.
posted by Coda Tronca at 5:21 AM on June 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
"During her time as creative director Ms Keys was involved with Blackberry's Keep Moving project ... she encouraged fans to send pictures to the project to be used on her 2013 tour."
Seems like she had a more up-to-date idea of 'the moment' in those days.
posted by Coda Tronca at 5:21 AM on June 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Last week I was in Fukuoka for a conference, and my wife and I went to a show at a small basement venue. There were maybe 50 people there, late teens and 20-somethings mostly, and nobody had their phones out during the sets.
Pretty strict nation-wide no camera rule for domestic shows in Japan, especially if they're on bigger labels. People still do it on the sly, but not in big numbers.
But concert-goers know that American artists or other international acts don't have/enforce those rules, so everyone busts out their phones a LOT more at those shows.
posted by p3t3 at 6:22 AM on June 19, 2016
Pretty strict nation-wide no camera rule for domestic shows in Japan, especially if they're on bigger labels. People still do it on the sly, but not in big numbers.
But concert-goers know that American artists or other international acts don't have/enforce those rules, so everyone busts out their phones a LOT more at those shows.
posted by p3t3 at 6:22 AM on June 19, 2016
I'm in the camp that would rather just put my phone away and enjoy the music and the moment.
That being said, I'm guessing that if we went back into the 17th C, there'd be a bunch of older men complaining about the way young people listen to symphonies/operas. I don't think that much has changed. There's always going to be something to be upset about: cellular devices, photography, ear trumpets, theatre binoculars, etc.
posted by Fizz at 6:49 AM on June 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
That being said, I'm guessing that if we went back into the 17th C, there'd be a bunch of older men complaining about the way young people listen to symphonies/operas. I don't think that much has changed. There's always going to be something to be upset about: cellular devices, photography, ear trumpets, theatre binoculars, etc.
posted by Fizz at 6:49 AM on June 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
I think savvy artists now realise that 'the moment' lasts longer and is more diverse nowadays than it used to be, due to social media. The 'loss of self-control in spontaneous Bacchanalian ritual orgy of rock' moment was largely a mythic occurrence at gigs anyway, as many older posters are remembering. Saying 'I was at Woodstock' or 'I was at the Sex Pistols first gig' was almost always a better experience than actually being there, so that's what people have now embraced.
I guess my hit-to-miss ration for Bacchanalian ritual orgies has been uncommonly high, then, in that I've been to plenty of concerts that weren't utter jag. Almost invariably, audience engagement is vital to that.
You can have a pretty lame band on-stage, and if people are dancing, the show'll wind up great. You can have an excellent performer—turns out, Lady Gaga knows how to rock a concert????—and if people are standing around with their camera phones, the show will be, I repeat myself, utter jag.
I've been to punk shows and jazz shows and experimental rock shows and raves and folk festivals. At no point does audience commitment not matter. In fact, the most unreliable genres of live performance, in my experience, are the ones like classical performance, where audiences are expected to sit still and keep quiet without any kinds of reaction whatsoever. The more the audience gets to respond, the more anybody has.
And what's with your bizarre social media logic? Know what kinds of "moments" people on social media fucking despise? Anything that tries to turn an event into a "brand". When I went to see Grimes last week, I wasn't there to extend the Grimes brand—I was there to listen to Grimes play some fucking music. If I wasn't at Grimes, I wouldn't want to see people's photographs of Grimes, because I know what Grimes fucking looks like. If an artist wants something they say or do to spread virally throughout the Internet, they can post it to their fucking Tumblr, like Grimes already fucking does.
Know what a great spontaneous connection is? Being in a room together, listening to some fucking music. It's not about goddamn namedropping; who gives a fuck if you were at Woodstock or not? It's about going to a music performance, and responding to some music. Do some people here lack the capacity to enjoy live music without an accounts manager and three graphic designers shoved in between them first?
posted by rorgy at 6:54 AM on June 19, 2016 [9 favorites]
I guess my hit-to-miss ration for Bacchanalian ritual orgies has been uncommonly high, then, in that I've been to plenty of concerts that weren't utter jag. Almost invariably, audience engagement is vital to that.
You can have a pretty lame band on-stage, and if people are dancing, the show'll wind up great. You can have an excellent performer—turns out, Lady Gaga knows how to rock a concert????—and if people are standing around with their camera phones, the show will be, I repeat myself, utter jag.
I've been to punk shows and jazz shows and experimental rock shows and raves and folk festivals. At no point does audience commitment not matter. In fact, the most unreliable genres of live performance, in my experience, are the ones like classical performance, where audiences are expected to sit still and keep quiet without any kinds of reaction whatsoever. The more the audience gets to respond, the more anybody has.
And what's with your bizarre social media logic? Know what kinds of "moments" people on social media fucking despise? Anything that tries to turn an event into a "brand". When I went to see Grimes last week, I wasn't there to extend the Grimes brand—I was there to listen to Grimes play some fucking music. If I wasn't at Grimes, I wouldn't want to see people's photographs of Grimes, because I know what Grimes fucking looks like. If an artist wants something they say or do to spread virally throughout the Internet, they can post it to their fucking Tumblr, like Grimes already fucking does.
Know what a great spontaneous connection is? Being in a room together, listening to some fucking music. It's not about goddamn namedropping; who gives a fuck if you were at Woodstock or not? It's about going to a music performance, and responding to some music. Do some people here lack the capacity to enjoy live music without an accounts manager and three graphic designers shoved in between them first?
posted by rorgy at 6:54 AM on June 19, 2016 [9 favorites]
(Is there a phrase, by the way, for when somebody accuses somebody else of believing something trite and outdated by means of snide logic that is itself outdated and trite? The Germans must have something for this, yeah?)
posted by rorgy at 6:56 AM on June 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by rorgy at 6:56 AM on June 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Saying 'I was at Woodstock' or 'I was at the Sex Pistols first gig' was almost always a better experience than actually being there, so that's what people have now embraced.
Wait, do people actually go to shows not to listen to music, but just to say they were there? What's the point? Isn't that like the textbook definition of a poseur?
posted by Existential Dread at 7:12 AM on June 19, 2016
Wait, do people actually go to shows not to listen to music, but just to say they were there? What's the point? Isn't that like the textbook definition of a poseur?
posted by Existential Dread at 7:12 AM on June 19, 2016
Lady Gaga's startup social media platform for brands actually just went bust, so perhaps she is really is better off concentrating on the gig atmosphere.
posted by Coda Tronca at 7:19 AM on June 19, 2016
posted by Coda Tronca at 7:19 AM on June 19, 2016
Do some people here lack the capacity to enjoy live music without an accounts manager and three graphic designers shoved in between them first?
Are some people here being incredibly snide and superior about how their enjoyment of music is more pure and true than people who have the urge to record their experiences?
You're throwing practically every trope I can think of into your rants here. Which, you know, is not going to solve the problem. If you want to stop people from using their phones you have to understand why they do it, not project the most negative interpretations possible.
It's almost like you didn't read anything people have posted before, because a lot of what you've said has actually already been responded to. Plus, almost everyone in this thread agrees with you that people using their phones at concerts (at least during the performance) is annoying, distracting, etc.
Like, when you say "some people here" who on earth do you mean? Be clear.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:55 AM on June 19, 2016 [9 favorites]
Are some people here being incredibly snide and superior about how their enjoyment of music is more pure and true than people who have the urge to record their experiences?
You're throwing practically every trope I can think of into your rants here. Which, you know, is not going to solve the problem. If you want to stop people from using their phones you have to understand why they do it, not project the most negative interpretations possible.
It's almost like you didn't read anything people have posted before, because a lot of what you've said has actually already been responded to. Plus, almost everyone in this thread agrees with you that people using their phones at concerts (at least during the performance) is annoying, distracting, etc.
Like, when you say "some people here" who on earth do you mean? Be clear.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:55 AM on June 19, 2016 [9 favorites]
Buzzkill
posted by AugustWest at 8:39 AM on June 19, 2016
posted by AugustWest at 8:39 AM on June 19, 2016
I don't mind this one bit, but I am concerned about how it will slow down the entrance to venues. At some point it will be de facto, but in the mean time add 30-60 minutes to your leaving for these events. For me this means I am even less likely to go to a mid-week event because it is already hard enough to get out of work, feed the dog, livestock etc, drive an hour to a venue (those are the closest to me!), wait in line, wait as all X thousands of people are told about the pouch policy, etc.
And this won't stop pirating. People have been sneaking equipment into shows for ages. Hidden mics and video in eyeglasses, etc. I used to sneak my DAT into shows. In the past this wasn't as big of an issue because no one had high-speed Internet, there was no YouTube, etc. We just listed our collections online and people sent shipping and data CD(!) costs for each show.
But for me it will mean more enjoyable experience as I don't have to look into a sea of screens as I watch/listen to events. Or worse listen to someone shouting into their phone over some non-time-sensitive shit that they find important for some fucking reason.
Now if we can just get fans to stop singing at the top of their lungs to each and every word of every damn song. I'm looking at you U2 and They Might Be Giant fans!
posted by terrapin at 8:59 AM on June 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
And this won't stop pirating. People have been sneaking equipment into shows for ages. Hidden mics and video in eyeglasses, etc. I used to sneak my DAT into shows. In the past this wasn't as big of an issue because no one had high-speed Internet, there was no YouTube, etc. We just listed our collections online and people sent shipping and data CD(!) costs for each show.
But for me it will mean more enjoyable experience as I don't have to look into a sea of screens as I watch/listen to events. Or worse listen to someone shouting into their phone over some non-time-sensitive shit that they find important for some fucking reason.
Now if we can just get fans to stop singing at the top of their lungs to each and every word of every damn song. I'm looking at you U2 and They Might Be Giant fans!
posted by terrapin at 8:59 AM on June 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Are some people here being incredibly snide and superior about how their enjoyment of music is more pure and true than people who have the urge to record their experiences?
enjoy the experience however you want to. as an audience member next to you - four simple conditions: you never talk during the music, i never see a screen glow, i never hear a chime or ringtone, i never see a flash.
done. easy. be as distracted and absent as you need to - without impacting me.
posted by j_curiouser at 8:59 AM on June 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
enjoy the experience however you want to. as an audience member next to you - four simple conditions: you never talk during the music, i never see a screen glow, i never hear a chime or ringtone, i never see a flash.
done. easy. be as distracted and absent as you need to - without impacting me.
posted by j_curiouser at 8:59 AM on June 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
This is a dumb idea. Remember the concert in Paris? Phones are safety.
If "phones are safety" we all have much, much bigger problems than whether our phones are zipped inside locked rubber pouches at entertainment venues.
posted by blucevalo at 9:17 AM on June 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
If "phones are safety" we all have much, much bigger problems than whether our phones are zipped inside locked rubber pouches at entertainment venues.
posted by blucevalo at 9:17 AM on June 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
I go to shows pretty frequently, always smaller venues. I usually like to get a couple of pics of the band playing. Maybe a few more if their stage set up is really interesting. I don't record and it is annoying to see other people recording but it's just something I've gotten used to. If I'm focused on the band and the experience, I can tune out the screens.
There's just so many electronics in daily life that are moving or blinking or flickering in my peripheral that it's just something that's a part of life now.
posted by LizBoBiz at 10:05 AM on June 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
There's just so many electronics in daily life that are moving or blinking or flickering in my peripheral that it's just something that's a part of life now.
posted by LizBoBiz at 10:05 AM on June 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Fascinating how modern parenting has been affected by technology.
If the venue's wifi is decent, there are plenty of apps/cameras that let you check your sleeping baby on your phone. Adele would approve.
posted by Coda Tronca at 10:31 AM on June 19, 2016
If the venue's wifi is decent, there are plenty of apps/cameras that let you check your sleeping baby on your phone. Adele would approve.
posted by Coda Tronca at 10:31 AM on June 19, 2016
There's just so many electronics in daily life that are moving or blinking or flickering much unpleasant AND unnecessary bullshit in my peripheral that it's just something that's a part of life now.
i guess. surrender is an option.
posted by j_curiouser at 10:39 AM on June 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
i guess. surrender is an option.
posted by j_curiouser at 10:39 AM on June 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Well given that I can only control my own actions and feelings, yeah, surrender.
posted by LizBoBiz at 11:06 AM on June 19, 2016
posted by LizBoBiz at 11:06 AM on June 19, 2016
Mods, please let me know if this is cool The concern I heard was what do you do when the band is taking too long to set up
posted by LuckyMonkey21 at 11:29 AM on June 19, 2016
posted by LuckyMonkey21 at 11:29 AM on June 19, 2016
That being said, I'm guessing that if we went back into the 17th C, there'd be a bunch of older men complaining about the way young people listen to symphonies/operas.
The deathly hush at the symphony is a twentieth century innovation: audiences have been loud and rowdy forever.
With that said, I'm not living in the seventeenth century where orange sellers and bawds cried their wares while the singers and musicians fought to be heard over the conversations and commercial transactions and I have no wish to experience it.
posted by winna at 11:52 AM on June 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
The deathly hush at the symphony is a twentieth century innovation: audiences have been loud and rowdy forever.
With that said, I'm not living in the seventeenth century where orange sellers and bawds cried their wares while the singers and musicians fought to be heard over the conversations and commercial transactions and I have no wish to experience it.
posted by winna at 11:52 AM on June 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
orange sellers and bawds cried their wares while the singers and musicians fought to be heard over the conversations and commercial transactions
That's a fair summary of what's happening now, but it turns out that Alicia Keys and Lady Gaga were having the commercial transactions with Blackberry and various venture capitalists while simultaneously being the frustrated performers.
posted by Coda Tronca at 12:00 PM on June 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
That's a fair summary of what's happening now, but it turns out that Alicia Keys and Lady Gaga were having the commercial transactions with Blackberry and various venture capitalists while simultaneously being the frustrated performers.
posted by Coda Tronca at 12:00 PM on June 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
If "phones are safety" we all have much, much bigger problems than whether our phones are zipped inside locked rubber pouches at entertainment venues.
I'm disabled. Occasionally my body - or the medical equipment hooked up to it - goes suddenly haywire. My phone is my lifeline. I can't go to a show if I cannot have immediate access to my phone. My phone is my safety.
posted by mattbcoset at 12:22 PM on June 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'm disabled. Occasionally my body - or the medical equipment hooked up to it - goes suddenly haywire. My phone is my lifeline. I can't go to a show if I cannot have immediate access to my phone. My phone is my safety.
posted by mattbcoset at 12:22 PM on June 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
Can we take it as read that if you are a) a heavily-in-demand neurologist, surgeon, or some other medical person who may be called away to perform lifesaving surgery, b) a parent who uses their phone to receive texts from babysitters in the case of emergencies, or c) a person who uses their phone to monitor their own physical well-being, then those of us who complain about phone fiends at concerts are actually not talking about YOU and maybe it would help if you joined us in getting mad at the people who are making your legitimate need for phone access difficult?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:51 PM on June 19, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:51 PM on June 19, 2016 [18 favorites]
I love that this "innovation" is coming around just as needing to use phone screens is increasingly becoming obsolete for many things. Like, we're basically one more iteration of iOS/Android from being able to get around this with just
"Hey Siri, start recording"
posted by General Malaise at 2:36 PM on June 19, 2016
"Hey Siri, start recording"
posted by General Malaise at 2:36 PM on June 19, 2016
Ten years from now the front rows of a concert are just people looking up at their hovering videodrones barking orders.
posted by No-sword at 5:46 PM on June 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by No-sword at 5:46 PM on June 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Regarding disability, venues will have to make reasonable accomodations; it's the law, if I'm not mistaken. If you do have one that requires an unlocked cell, I would suggest contacting the venue in advance. I'm sure venues will have to make a protocol for this exception or they'll run into legal trouble. (Snark ahead but I say this sincerely)
And thank you Empress; me and my brain surgeon friends are always persecuted during these discussions. I'm always dashing out of theaters to remove tumors; I can't help it.
Regarding contacting your missing or late friends, they do allow you to go outside and break the lock and use your phone. So they have made some flexibility there.
Unfortunately, this all falls under Ruining It For Everybody. I personally don't mind some discreet snapshots, or if you are in the back or in a slanted balcony and not putting your phone in someone's line of sight. When I was at Lush, the lead singer handled it well by saying she didn't really care but that it was a nuisance to the audience and would people please just check with people behind them if it's in the way. It's a matter of consideration.
The problem is that people have to put their phones up and in the way, generally. So you're likely to get in someone's way unless you're in heavily slanted seating or in the back. But for me, it's video recording that annoys me because the camera will be there for a long time, not just 10 seconds.
Unfortunately, inconsiderate people ruin things for everyone. It sucks. And this doesn't even touch upon live actors or performers who get distracted by lights in the dark theater.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 6:43 PM on June 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
And thank you Empress; me and my brain surgeon friends are always persecuted during these discussions. I'm always dashing out of theaters to remove tumors; I can't help it.
Regarding contacting your missing or late friends, they do allow you to go outside and break the lock and use your phone. So they have made some flexibility there.
Unfortunately, this all falls under Ruining It For Everybody. I personally don't mind some discreet snapshots, or if you are in the back or in a slanted balcony and not putting your phone in someone's line of sight. When I was at Lush, the lead singer handled it well by saying she didn't really care but that it was a nuisance to the audience and would people please just check with people behind them if it's in the way. It's a matter of consideration.
The problem is that people have to put their phones up and in the way, generally. So you're likely to get in someone's way unless you're in heavily slanted seating or in the back. But for me, it's video recording that annoys me because the camera will be there for a long time, not just 10 seconds.
Unfortunately, inconsiderate people ruin things for everyone. It sucks. And this doesn't even touch upon live actors or performers who get distracted by lights in the dark theater.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 6:43 PM on June 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Wait, do people actually go to shows not to listen to music, but just to say they were there?
Personally, I wonder if they do because the don't seem to be listening. They're talking loudly and treating a concert like it's a bar band in the background. I also think some people just have money to burn and they go to concerts like some of us would pay cover at a bar; it's all just background noise at a social gathering to them. I've seen people taking selfies during the music and just yapping away like they don't care; I find that very weird.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 6:47 PM on June 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
Personally, I wonder if they do because the don't seem to be listening. They're talking loudly and treating a concert like it's a bar band in the background. I also think some people just have money to burn and they go to concerts like some of us would pay cover at a bar; it's all just background noise at a social gathering to them. I've seen people taking selfies during the music and just yapping away like they don't care; I find that very weird.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 6:47 PM on June 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
I honestly do not get the appeal of filming an entire performance, or taking a million pictures. I like sharing a quick 10-30 second video of a street performer (always tagging them if I can!) or a quick photo to - let's be honest - brag if I'm at a show I'm really excited about, but what are you going to do with a crappy 2-hour cellphone video? You'll maybe watch it once or twice. Is that worth it to have a much less fun experience of the show in the first place? Same with taking a million pictures.
There's a terrible Hamilton bootleg cellphone video going around right now. I can understand why people would want to watch it (it's terrible, but there are millions of fans who will never see it on Broadway), but what I don't understand is the person who filmed it. 1. Those tickets are crazy-expensive, why would you spend your time filming it instead of actually watching it? and 2. How on earth did everyone in that person's section not get pissed and tell them to knock it off or go get an usher to do so? I was so nervous about ruining any part of my expensive Hamilton viewing experience that I actually put my phone in airplane mode in the theater!
posted by lunasol at 7:14 PM on June 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
There's a terrible Hamilton bootleg cellphone video going around right now. I can understand why people would want to watch it (it's terrible, but there are millions of fans who will never see it on Broadway), but what I don't understand is the person who filmed it. 1. Those tickets are crazy-expensive, why would you spend your time filming it instead of actually watching it? and 2. How on earth did everyone in that person's section not get pissed and tell them to knock it off or go get an usher to do so? I was so nervous about ruining any part of my expensive Hamilton viewing experience that I actually put my phone in airplane mode in the theater!
posted by lunasol at 7:14 PM on June 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Can we take it as read that if you are a) a heavily-in-demand neurologist, surgeon, or some other medical person who may be called away to perform lifesaving surgery, b) a parent who uses their phone to receive texts from babysitters in the case of emergencies, or c) a person who uses their phone to monitor their own physical well-being, then those of us who complain about phone fiends at concerts are actually not talking about YOU and maybe it would help if you joined us in getting mad at the people who are making your legitimate need for phone access difficult?I think I understand your frustration but, no, I won't join you. The article is about a technical solution to a social problem. Historically, those don't work and are unfair to a lot of people.
The proposed solution quashes a whole bunch of completely reasonable (and several necessary) uses of phones. The solution to these problems isn't banning the phone but banning the offending behavior. Banning phones is lazy, dangerous, and makes people who have them (approved) really stand out. As someone who already stands out for medical reasons anyway, adding to that is a wee bit shitty, you know? Pulling out a phone and looking at it for a couple minutes (for, let's say, making sure I'm not going to pass out, have a seizure, vomit, or fucking die) should be a perfectly normal thing. Filming ten minutes of show after the organizers asked you not to should not. How do you differentiate that at the door without being a real fucking asshole to the first group?
I'm speaking for myself above, but here I'll dare speak for several of my friends here: I hang out with a fair number of folks who use their phones, notebooks, and cameras in crowds to help manage their anxiety and other difficulties. If one of those folks pulls out their phone during a show or a talk, they're sometimes just pulling on that release valve. Maybe they need a little distance. Maybe they need a little safety. Maybe they're taking some audio or video so they can have time to process it later. That's okay with me. I'm not saying it has to be okay with you. I'm saying that a good chunk of the above conversation seems to be ignoring the costs of eliminating that.
It's real hard to make a judgement about the motives and needs of a person from far away. If the venue says "no photography," they can absolutely hold the patrons to that. I can only hope they do it in a way that causes the least amount of collateral damage. I'm asking that everyone please remember that there are a lot of folks who can't regard a phone as a purely optional feature of their evening.
posted by introp at 9:19 PM on June 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
those of us who complain about phone fiends at concerts are actually not talking about YOU
They're not? We're talking about literally taking peoples phones away at the door. The first paragraph of the article is: [...]tell the guy at the door who, exactly, he may allow to bring a cellphone into the singer’s sold-out gig. The list is very short. “Like, Queen Latifah,” says Walton. There is nothing there about parents, caregivers, people who have medical exceptions. It does not seem likely at all that they would make an exception for everybody who says "I need my phone because my teenager is on a date and I want her to be able to contact me if anything happens".
I was just at an event where one of the people I was with apologised in advance for checking her phone, because her father was very ill and might be dying (but then again, they had been through this before, so, you never know, he had been ill for two years now). I knew that that was going on, but for the people even a couple of meters away, that does not look any different than someone who looks every couple of minutes to check if anything new happened on Twitter.
posted by blub at 12:12 AM on June 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
They're not? We're talking about literally taking peoples phones away at the door. The first paragraph of the article is: [...]tell the guy at the door who, exactly, he may allow to bring a cellphone into the singer’s sold-out gig. The list is very short. “Like, Queen Latifah,” says Walton. There is nothing there about parents, caregivers, people who have medical exceptions. It does not seem likely at all that they would make an exception for everybody who says "I need my phone because my teenager is on a date and I want her to be able to contact me if anything happens".
I was just at an event where one of the people I was with apologised in advance for checking her phone, because her father was very ill and might be dying (but then again, they had been through this before, so, you never know, he had been ill for two years now). I knew that that was going on, but for the people even a couple of meters away, that does not look any different than someone who looks every couple of minutes to check if anything new happened on Twitter.
posted by blub at 12:12 AM on June 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
I really don't want to have to describe the real and important reasons that I keep my phone with me at all times to a stranger. Somehow, I don't think wanting to listen to music justifies that.
Unless you're listening to Mahler because then it's just on.
posted by nfalkner at 12:18 AM on June 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Unless you're listening to Mahler because then it's just on.
posted by nfalkner at 12:18 AM on June 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Checking a text (or ignoring it with a microsecond glance if it's not from someone important) without pissing anyone off in a dark place is one of the few things my Apple Watch is really good for.
posted by Coda Tronca at 12:39 AM on June 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Coda Tronca at 12:39 AM on June 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
the entire article is about limited uses of the bags for very specific situations. if you require your phone to be checkable for whatever reason, and these shows are being advertised as no phone shows ahead of time, it seems like you just wouldn't buy a ticket to that specific show. this will not become the norm for all shows everywhere for a million reasons.
posted by nadawi at 6:26 AM on June 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 6:26 AM on June 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
Can we take it as read that if you are a) a heavily-in-demand neurologist, surgeon, or some other medical person who may be called away to perform lifesaving surgery...
My thoughts on this in a previous cell phone thread.
posted by TedW at 7:28 AM on June 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
My thoughts on this in a previous cell phone thread.
posted by TedW at 7:28 AM on June 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
those of us who complain about phone fiends at concerts are actually not talking about YOU
They're not?
No, we're not. Really. It's 'those of us who complain', not the security at the door, and I don't see any complaints about texting here or checking emergency messages. What we're complaining about repeatedly is photographing /filming because it blocks other people's view. Hence my saying "ruining it for everybody'. Those of us who want to see /hear the music don't care too much if you text your babysitter or whatnot. We just want to see what we paid for.
Also I agree with Nadawi; they will need to post it in advance and it will likely not be the norm.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 9:11 AM on June 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
They're not?
No, we're not. Really. It's 'those of us who complain', not the security at the door, and I don't see any complaints about texting here or checking emergency messages. What we're complaining about repeatedly is photographing /filming because it blocks other people's view. Hence my saying "ruining it for everybody'. Those of us who want to see /hear the music don't care too much if you text your babysitter or whatnot. We just want to see what we paid for.
Also I agree with Nadawi; they will need to post it in advance and it will likely not be the norm.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 9:11 AM on June 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
the entire article is about limited uses of the bags for very specific situations. if you require your phone to be checkable for whatever reason, and these shows are being advertised as no phone shows ahead of time, it seems like you just wouldn't buy a ticket to that specific show. this will not become the norm for all shows everywhere for a million reasons.
I think this is the right answer. If we were all entitled to go to shows, I'd feel differently. As a starting point, it's the prerogative of the individual performer. I'm sure it bugs them to no end that it will exclude people from certain professions or with legitimate needs, but like many issues that have a truck ton of people being socially impolite, those impolite people do, in fact, ruin it for a lot of people who aren't doing anything wrong in the first place. There might be better solutions, and I'm sure performers would love to hear what sorts of things work to protect the integrity of their performance and not alienate large sections of their audience at the same time. In this case, I think they've made a call regarding who will feel alienated by not being able to attend, and in this case those who actually depend on their phones for legitimate reasons get the short end of the stick, versus those who regularly get the short end of the stick in large numbers when they are distracted during a public performance (and may decide to stop coming). Many venues and performers have been wracking their brains trying to provide the most fair and utilitarian calculus for the greatest enjoyment for the greatest number, and this is currently where the die is cast regarding dealing with different types of public irritation. I don't know if there are actually other good social solutions that will keep people from trying to subvert reasonable social norms as dictated by the newest electronic gadget. As things stand, though, it's not even up to performer to solve this problem perfectly, as it is created by other people's actions in the first place; but I'm glad they are trying. I like the idea of "no phone" concerts being advertised as such (with other events being very open to devices), although the cynical part of me thinks that people will just end up sneaking in multiple cell phones to concerts, and all of the bag effort will be for naught anyway.
posted by SpacemanStix at 11:25 AM on June 20, 2016
I think this is the right answer. If we were all entitled to go to shows, I'd feel differently. As a starting point, it's the prerogative of the individual performer. I'm sure it bugs them to no end that it will exclude people from certain professions or with legitimate needs, but like many issues that have a truck ton of people being socially impolite, those impolite people do, in fact, ruin it for a lot of people who aren't doing anything wrong in the first place. There might be better solutions, and I'm sure performers would love to hear what sorts of things work to protect the integrity of their performance and not alienate large sections of their audience at the same time. In this case, I think they've made a call regarding who will feel alienated by not being able to attend, and in this case those who actually depend on their phones for legitimate reasons get the short end of the stick, versus those who regularly get the short end of the stick in large numbers when they are distracted during a public performance (and may decide to stop coming). Many venues and performers have been wracking their brains trying to provide the most fair and utilitarian calculus for the greatest enjoyment for the greatest number, and this is currently where the die is cast regarding dealing with different types of public irritation. I don't know if there are actually other good social solutions that will keep people from trying to subvert reasonable social norms as dictated by the newest electronic gadget. As things stand, though, it's not even up to performer to solve this problem perfectly, as it is created by other people's actions in the first place; but I'm glad they are trying. I like the idea of "no phone" concerts being advertised as such (with other events being very open to devices), although the cynical part of me thinks that people will just end up sneaking in multiple cell phones to concerts, and all of the bag effort will be for naught anyway.
posted by SpacemanStix at 11:25 AM on June 20, 2016
I'm trusting cell phones to help me find my friends while i'm lost and/or drunk in a venue and some handsy creeper is sexually harassing or assaulting me. no security guard is going to 01) text my friends (whose phone numbers i can't remember anyway) for me or 02) leave their post to help me wander around to find them. and tbh most of them don't give a fuck when some guy is groping you.
I came in here fully cocked to say exactly this, against all the people going "lol good".
Basically close enough to 100% of the crappy situations any of my friends have ended up in at shows over the past 10 years or so have been when they(or their other friend there) had a dead phone, or had lost it, or it had been broken, or stolen, or whatever.
There's a whole ton of crappy and unsafe situations you can end up in when you can't contact your friends. And yes, most event security are useless assholes both in general and because rules.
I can't think of a concept i've heard of in recent history that wasn't this myopic, and obviously designed from the point of view of either a man, an older person, or both. Many of my friends who go out to shows and clubs a lot have permanently open group chats just to coordinate, check on whats up with so and so who ran to the bathroom, etc.
Shit, i had a friend stop by to pick up a spare phone from my house before a show because she flat out did not want to go out to a busy venue without one.
I can't help but see objections to that being anything less than a statement of "your safety, and perception of safety is less important than my potential annoyance at the light from your screen" mixed in with a bunch of whargarbl about "authenticity". And like, sorry for being so annoyed at this but i've been a club DJ, played a ton of shows, attended so many i've lost count and have seen and heard of so much bad stuff happening. And so, so many instances of security being useless or even actively making the situation worse(IE: kicking out someone trying to reach a drunk friend who needed help). This firmly goes in "actively making things shittier" territory to me.
posted by emptythought at 11:44 AM on June 20, 2016 [8 favorites]
I came in here fully cocked to say exactly this, against all the people going "lol good".
Basically close enough to 100% of the crappy situations any of my friends have ended up in at shows over the past 10 years or so have been when they(or their other friend there) had a dead phone, or had lost it, or it had been broken, or stolen, or whatever.
There's a whole ton of crappy and unsafe situations you can end up in when you can't contact your friends. And yes, most event security are useless assholes both in general and because rules.
I can't think of a concept i've heard of in recent history that wasn't this myopic, and obviously designed from the point of view of either a man, an older person, or both. Many of my friends who go out to shows and clubs a lot have permanently open group chats just to coordinate, check on whats up with so and so who ran to the bathroom, etc.
Shit, i had a friend stop by to pick up a spare phone from my house before a show because she flat out did not want to go out to a busy venue without one.
I can't help but see objections to that being anything less than a statement of "your safety, and perception of safety is less important than my potential annoyance at the light from your screen" mixed in with a bunch of whargarbl about "authenticity". And like, sorry for being so annoyed at this but i've been a club DJ, played a ton of shows, attended so many i've lost count and have seen and heard of so much bad stuff happening. And so, so many instances of security being useless or even actively making the situation worse(IE: kicking out someone trying to reach a drunk friend who needed help). This firmly goes in "actively making things shittier" territory to me.
posted by emptythought at 11:44 AM on June 20, 2016 [8 favorites]
From a friend: "in Berlin, they put a sticker on your camera. if you are caught taking a picture you get the boot. no questions."
Sounds like that would be ideal, re: giving you your phone with calling, group chat, etc, but not letting you take pictures. And you can remove the sticker, but that would be an intentional act, might have social stigma, and might get you booted. No locked bag needed!
posted by naju at 11:49 AM on June 20, 2016 [7 favorites]
Sounds like that would be ideal, re: giving you your phone with calling, group chat, etc, but not letting you take pictures. And you can remove the sticker, but that would be an intentional act, might have social stigma, and might get you booted. No locked bag needed!
posted by naju at 11:49 AM on June 20, 2016 [7 favorites]
^that sounds like a good solution. When I worked in a local theater/nightclub frequented by drunk tourists, we had multiple announcements about flash photography and confiscated cameras at the door (this was before camera phones, so life was easier). As soon as we saw a flash, their camera was confiscated. We didn't kick them out but we should've because it would've made the rule have more teeth. People will sneak shit in no matter what you do. I think the problem with having ushers/security get cameras is that there are likely to be a lot of them. People always want to break rules, especially if they're drunk.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 12:18 PM on June 20, 2016
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 12:18 PM on June 20, 2016
Maybe a good solution is just to have a lot of ushers booting people for filming. It seems difficult to strike a balance between legitimate safety concerns and usage vs just being able to see the show.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 12:24 PM on June 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 12:24 PM on June 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also, not to thread hog, but I think we're talking about varying scenarios and crowds. For me, I'm in crowds that are not so much trashed and gropey but a mundane level of inconsiderateness.
I'm sure there will have to be variations on policies and procedures to take different crowds and situations into consideration; perhaps locking up in a bag is not the best way to go.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 12:31 PM on June 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm sure there will have to be variations on policies and procedures to take different crowds and situations into consideration; perhaps locking up in a bag is not the best way to go.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 12:31 PM on June 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maybe a good solution is just to have a lot of ushers booting people for filming.
It seems to me like boots on the ground moderation of social spaces, crucially combined with sufficient resources and training to enable thoughtful application of the rules, is probably the model most likely to work. Which is pretty much the approach adopted in the both the "policing by consent" model and on Metafilter. The idea that you can control people's behaviour though overwhelming technical superiority is probably only applicable in situations, like strongly hierarchical organisations or states, where you have already got acquiescence to your domination. And even there it's hardly watertight.
posted by howfar at 1:51 PM on June 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
It seems to me like boots on the ground moderation of social spaces, crucially combined with sufficient resources and training to enable thoughtful application of the rules, is probably the model most likely to work. Which is pretty much the approach adopted in the both the "policing by consent" model and on Metafilter. The idea that you can control people's behaviour though overwhelming technical superiority is probably only applicable in situations, like strongly hierarchical organisations or states, where you have already got acquiescence to your domination. And even there it's hardly watertight.
posted by howfar at 1:51 PM on June 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
Why can't we just go back to the ol' point-and-laugh-at-'em public shaming method? I hear Patti LuPone kicks ass at it.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:29 PM on June 20, 2016
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:29 PM on June 20, 2016
Went to Flight of the Conchords last night in Vancouver for simply one of the best shows ever. At the start of the show, they made a request for no videoing so people could enjoy the live experience. About 30 min in, they called out two guys videoing on the balcony and asked their neighbours to take their phones off them, take dick pics and send them to their Mum. It worked. This only increases my love for FOTC.
posted by arcticseal at 4:29 PM on June 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by arcticseal at 4:29 PM on June 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
....forget the locking-up-of-phones, I like that approach much better.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:15 PM on June 24, 2016
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:15 PM on June 24, 2016
I find encouraging a mob to sexually harass two women who hadn't done anything to them defines FOTC as totally shitty, but I guess Views Differ.
posted by tavella at 1:33 AM on June 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by tavella at 1:33 AM on June 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Were they women? I assumed "guys" meant men. Is that assumption unfounded in this case?
posted by howfar at 1:57 AM on June 25, 2016
posted by howfar at 1:57 AM on June 25, 2016
Presumably, the women labeled "Mum" in their phones were women who had done nothing to deserve the sexual harassment of receiving a dick pic. Which blows your mind more: Mums are women? or Women don't like receiving dick pics?
posted by hydropsyche at 3:14 AM on June 25, 2016
posted by hydropsyche at 3:14 AM on June 25, 2016
Folks, I somehow suspect that no actual dick picks were taken or sent. I suspect that what happened was more like:
"Hey, if that guy in the red shirt doesn't stop, steal his phone and send a dick pic to his mom!"
(Guy in red shirt hastily pockets phone before anyone can do so and leaves it in pocket for rest of night)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:32 AM on June 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Hey, if that guy in the red shirt doesn't stop, steal his phone and send a dick pic to his mom!"
(Guy in red shirt hastily pockets phone before anyone can do so and leaves it in pocket for rest of night)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:32 AM on June 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Folks, I somehow suspect that no actual dick picks were taken or sent.
Hey, we're trying to have an outrage here! Can you keep it down with the common sense, please?
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:14 AM on June 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Hey, we're trying to have an outrage here! Can you keep it down with the common sense, please?
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:14 AM on June 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
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posted by GuyZero at 1:24 PM on June 18, 2016 [7 favorites]