WITH VOLUMETRIC GOD RAYS!!
June 26, 2016 8:29 AM Subscribe
Skyrim Remastered [The Verge] Nearly five years after it first came out, Bethesda's The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim continues to have a very impressive fan base that keeps the game pretty through HD mods. Now it's Bethesda's turn: at its E3 press conference, the company has announced a remastered version of Skyrim coming to PC, Xbox One, and PlayStation 4.
- Skyrim Remaster Is "as Next-Gen as Possible" [Game Spot]
- Skyrim Remaster Is "as Next-Gen as Possible" [Game Spot]
While the developer isn't yet talking specifics about all the ways in which the new version is improved, Hines said players can expect a range of updates. "We haven't gotten into the full, 'Here's all the things we're doing.' But the basic idea is, in all the ways possible we're trying to improve it and make it as next-gen and appropriate for these consoles as possible," he told IGN. "Performance, effects, or whatever we can do to make the game look and feel better, we're going to give it a go."- Pete Hines Explains Why The Game Won’t Be Free For Existing Console Players [Gaming Bolt]
Bethesda won some major brownie points when they announced that The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim would be remastered and made available later this year… but that it would be absolutely free for PC players who already own the game and its DLC. This seemed to rub some console players wrong, who were wondering why PC players get the game for free, while they would have to pay $60 again. Speaking on Twitter, Pete Hines pointed out that since PC players can naturally just install high res and graphical texture mods to the game, and get the same benefits that this remaster provides for no price, Bethesda are technically just giving them a game that already exists on PC, and for free- which is not the case for the console versions.
I have to admit I really like the sort of "cold" bluish tinge that Skyrim has and I'm not sure how wild I am about this. Particularly that first shot that seems to make everything sort of warm and hazy. Since I don't have all the Skyrim DLC on PC anyway I imagine I won't receive this, so oh well.
I do wonder how much of an improvement it will be VS. SweetFX injection et al or whatever the cool kids are up to these days.
posted by selfnoise at 8:37 AM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I do wonder how much of an improvement it will be VS. SweetFX injection et al or whatever the cool kids are up to these days.
posted by selfnoise at 8:37 AM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I recently moved over from PC gaming to PS4 for economic reasons
Not trying to derail my own thread, but this feels like the opposite to me. I migrated away from the console market and into the world of PC Gaming so that I could save money. After the initial hardware upgrade/build, it's all about keeping an eye out on Steam Sales! But then again, I don't know your situation, so maybe consoles make more sense. Not trying to just jump on your one comment, it's just the opposite of what so much conventional wisdom says about PG Gaming. Cheers.
posted by Fizz at 8:40 AM on June 26, 2016
Not trying to derail my own thread, but this feels like the opposite to me. I migrated away from the console market and into the world of PC Gaming so that I could save money. After the initial hardware upgrade/build, it's all about keeping an eye out on Steam Sales! But then again, I don't know your situation, so maybe consoles make more sense. Not trying to just jump on your one comment, it's just the opposite of what so much conventional wisdom says about PG Gaming. Cheers.
posted by Fizz at 8:40 AM on June 26, 2016
I'm in. Skyrim was a real treat, and I have the rather embarrassing Steam logged hours to prove it.
I have no idea what Screen-Space Reflections even are. I just know that marketing works and I want them.
posted by mrdaneri at 8:40 AM on June 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
I have no idea what Screen-Space Reflections even are. I just know that marketing works and I want them.
posted by mrdaneri at 8:40 AM on June 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Although that's going to depend on how fully featured the mod market is.
Take a look at the current state of Fallout 4 mods on consoles for an indicator. Xbox is limited to 2GB of installed mods. PS4 support isn't out yet but will be limited to 900mb of mods and nay not be able to support custom sounds. Neither console is going to get script extenders which are required for more complex mods.
posted by nathan_teske at 8:42 AM on June 26, 2016
Take a look at the current state of Fallout 4 mods on consoles for an indicator. Xbox is limited to 2GB of installed mods. PS4 support isn't out yet but will be limited to 900mb of mods and nay not be able to support custom sounds. Neither console is going to get script extenders which are required for more complex mods.
posted by nathan_teske at 8:42 AM on June 26, 2016
Eh? I used to be an adventurer like you...then I took an arrow to the knee.
posted by sexyrobot at 8:59 AM on June 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by sexyrobot at 8:59 AM on June 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
it's all about keeping an eye out on Steam sales
Exactly. I just purchased 15 games for ~$40. If you're patient, i.e. don't have to have the newest games immediately (which, after the many high profile games that suck on launch, is actually advisable), games can be had for $.50 - $10.00. I purchased the full Skyrim 2-3 years ago, with all DLC, for $10.
Steam, for all its flaws and controversy, has actually gone a long way towards making games piracy unnecessary.
posted by dozo at 9:03 AM on June 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
Exactly. I just purchased 15 games for ~$40. If you're patient, i.e. don't have to have the newest games immediately (which, after the many high profile games that suck on launch, is actually advisable), games can be had for $.50 - $10.00. I purchased the full Skyrim 2-3 years ago, with all DLC, for $10.
Steam, for all its flaws and controversy, has actually gone a long way towards making games piracy unnecessary.
posted by dozo at 9:03 AM on June 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
I have no idea what Screen-Space Reflections even are.
So when you look at something shiny (water, gloss surfaces, mirrors, polished floors) you normally see a (distorted) reflection of the immediate world around you. Screen-space reflections emulate those reflections by sending out a number of rays from the camera to the surface and calculating the bounce and what they end up on.
So for instance a flat, calm lake would have some form of mirror effect on it, the color and intensity determined by other parameters of the water.
posted by Talez at 9:09 AM on June 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
So when you look at something shiny (water, gloss surfaces, mirrors, polished floors) you normally see a (distorted) reflection of the immediate world around you. Screen-space reflections emulate those reflections by sending out a number of rays from the camera to the surface and calculating the bounce and what they end up on.
So for instance a flat, calm lake would have some form of mirror effect on it, the color and intensity determined by other parameters of the water.
posted by Talez at 9:09 AM on June 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
a flat, calm lake would have some form of mirror effect on it, the color and intensity determined by other parameters of the water.
Neat!
posted by jferngler at 9:13 AM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Neat!
posted by jferngler at 9:13 AM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's interesting that people are more excited about a remastered Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim than they have been for Elder Scrolls Online. Has anyone played the online version? How does it hold up? I've only heard middling to negative reviews. It's currently on sale on Steam and I've been considering snagging it. Does it offer up anything more than Skyrim? Because Skyrim continues to entertain all of these years later.
posted by Fizz at 9:23 AM on June 26, 2016
posted by Fizz at 9:23 AM on June 26, 2016
Huh I hadn't heard it would be free for PC users but damn that is good to hear because I was a little salty about them basically stuffing Skyrim full of ENB settings and calling it a new release.
posted by Sternmeyer at 9:24 AM on June 26, 2016
posted by Sternmeyer at 9:24 AM on June 26, 2016
As someone who is notorious for starting video games and never finishing them, Elder Scrolls Online has somehow managed to completely snare my attention for months now. I'm not very good at games, and I'm an obsessive player - I like to open every box, unlock every single feature on the map, etc. - so it's taking me a very long time to work through the main storyline, but I'm thoroughly enjoying it in a way that I haven't previous games I've tried. I love the world, and the story, and the character I've created. I don't do PvP at all, and I haven't done some of the dungeons that require other people to group up with you, because as a woman on the internet I'm pretty averse to doing anything that requires contact with other people. But there's a ton to do without PvP, and they've been putting out a lot of interesting DLC. (Console players are reporting some lag issues after the most recent large update, I don't know how performance has been since on PCs.) I like ESO enough that I've preordered the Skyrim remaster for PS4.
posted by skycrashesdown at 9:37 AM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by skycrashesdown at 9:37 AM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Not trying to derail my own thread, but this feels like the opposite to me. I migrated away from the console market and into the world of PC Gaming so that I could save money. After the initial hardware upgrade/build, it's all about keeping an eye out on Steam Sales! But then again, I don't know your situation, so maybe consoles make more sense. Not trying to just jump on your one comment, it's just the opposite of what so much conventional wisdom says about PG Gaming. Cheers.
No, I agree that it's counterintuitive, and rather specific to my own situation. My gaming rig died, after 10 faithful years of service. Its graphics capability was a bit higher than a 360, so during that generation it was able to function admirably, but had been getting outpaced recently. When its motherboard died, I decided that the total components weren't worth salvaging, and that a new gaming rig would be about a thousand dollars. My roomie wanted a PS4, and with discounts, I was able to get it down to about $150 for a share. I plan on going back to a gaming computer once I have a more stable job, but for the moment the PS4 allows me to play what I want to play without some of the conveniences of PC gaming.
I do so, so miss modding though. Especially with some of the cool stuff that's been coming out for Fallout 4.
posted by codacorolla at 9:39 AM on June 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
No, I agree that it's counterintuitive, and rather specific to my own situation. My gaming rig died, after 10 faithful years of service. Its graphics capability was a bit higher than a 360, so during that generation it was able to function admirably, but had been getting outpaced recently. When its motherboard died, I decided that the total components weren't worth salvaging, and that a new gaming rig would be about a thousand dollars. My roomie wanted a PS4, and with discounts, I was able to get it down to about $150 for a share. I plan on going back to a gaming computer once I have a more stable job, but for the moment the PS4 allows me to play what I want to play without some of the conveniences of PC gaming.
I do so, so miss modding though. Especially with some of the cool stuff that's been coming out for Fallout 4.
posted by codacorolla at 9:39 AM on June 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
I recognize this! It's the Minecraft model of updating your game. Wait for the fans to do it and copy them. Not complaining! I love it when developers take notice.
posted by adept256 at 9:56 AM on June 26, 2016
posted by adept256 at 9:56 AM on June 26, 2016
Steam sales
Steam sales favour the patient man.
C'mon, New Vegas, F3, & Crusader Kings DLC packs, c'mon...
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:04 AM on June 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Steam sales favour the patient man.
C'mon, New Vegas, F3, & Crusader Kings DLC packs, c'mon...
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:04 AM on June 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
I logged so, so many hours on Skyrim that even a beautiful, somewhat moddable version for my PS4 is going to lure me back just yet. Maybe in a few years when I'm feeling nostalgic, and the price has dropped. (Especially since my gaming hours are so limited that I started Fallout's Far Harbour DLC the day it came out and I'm still not halfway through it.)
That said, I'd love to see the new view from High Hrothgar.
posted by ejs at 10:16 AM on June 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
That said, I'd love to see the new view from High Hrothgar.
posted by ejs at 10:16 AM on June 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Hurm, dumb question, possible derail: It'd be cheaper for me to buy the New Vegas Ultimate Edition w/ the DLC than if I bought them individually. Can I do that and add the DLC to the New Vegas game I already have installed?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:29 AM on June 26, 2016
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:29 AM on June 26, 2016
Would have rather had a remastered Morrowind... I mean this is definitely prettier but not far off how I've been playing Skyrim on my PC since purchase which is why it's free on the PC (if you own all the DLC).
posted by davros42 at 10:39 AM on June 26, 2016
posted by davros42 at 10:39 AM on June 26, 2016
I will totally buy this and play the hell out of it, after it comes out and people have a chance to run into all the old bugs. I mean, looking nice and new will be great, but on the PS3, the DLC's caused a variety of game breaking (or really just freaking annoying) problems. I love Skyrim so much, but I'm not shelling out more cash for a prettier but just as buggy version.
posted by Orb at 10:45 AM on June 26, 2016
posted by Orb at 10:45 AM on June 26, 2016
Steam sales favour the patient man.
Not anymore. First of all they got rid of daily deals so the prices remain the same the entire time. Secondly, women are allowed to get Steam accounts in this day and age. Equality and all that.
posted by Talez at 10:47 AM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Not anymore. First of all they got rid of daily deals so the prices remain the same the entire time. Secondly, women are allowed to get Steam accounts in this day and age. Equality and all that.
posted by Talez at 10:47 AM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Would have rather had a remastered Morrowind...
You may want to have a look at the TES renewel project. Morroblivion seems to work, if buggy. Skywind is still in dev.
posted by adept256 at 10:49 AM on June 26, 2016
You may want to have a look at the TES renewel project. Morroblivion seems to work, if buggy. Skywind is still in dev.
posted by adept256 at 10:49 AM on June 26, 2016
Are they going to fix the shadow distance/quality stretching problem? I don't even remember the specifics, but I remember it being a significant engine limitation for STEP and the like.
I feel like this is probably going to look and run worse that what I can put together now from mods, but I'll be happy to be wrong.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:56 AM on June 26, 2016
I feel like this is probably going to look and run worse that what I can put together now from mods, but I'll be happy to be wrong.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:56 AM on June 26, 2016
Speaking on Twitter, Pete Hines pointed out that since PC players can naturally just install high res and graphical texture mods to the game, and get the same benefits that this remaster provides for no price
Ah. Well, nevermind then.....
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:58 AM on June 26, 2016
Ah. Well, nevermind then.....
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:58 AM on June 26, 2016
god this is all i've wanted since skyrim has continually failed to load properly on my ps3 every time i try to play for the past 2 years no matter how many times i reinstall it
once the ps4 one arrives i can take the old one down to the harbor and dramatically throw it into the sea
posted by poffin boffin at 11:02 AM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
once the ps4 one arrives i can take the old one down to the harbor and dramatically throw it into the sea
posted by poffin boffin at 11:02 AM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Not to be all Old Man Yells At Cloud or anything but this is why I generally end up disappointed in Bethesda games. All this time and effort to improve the already excellent graphics but the actual problem with the game, the quests and storylines, remain the same.
If they put a quarter the effort into the story as they do the graphics they would be creating the greatest games ever.
posted by Justinian at 11:26 AM on June 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
If they put a quarter the effort into the story as they do the graphics they would be creating the greatest games ever.
posted by Justinian at 11:26 AM on June 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
If other developers put a quarter of the effort into story as Bethesda does I'd never leave the house. There's a lot of content in there. Sometimes after a quest I'd make a cup of tea, relax and read the books I found for twenty minutes before questing again.
posted by adept256 at 11:38 AM on June 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 11:38 AM on June 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Hurm, dumb question, possible derail: It'd be cheaper for me to buy the New Vegas Ultimate Edition w/ the DLC than if I bought them individually. Can I do that and add the DLC to the New Vegas game I already have installed?
On pc? If nothing else you can just uninstall New Vegas and install the new one. If the save files are in a different directory just copy em.
If you have fo3 too, you can mush them together with Tale of Two Wastelands. It's harder at first because you have to face lots of FNV super mutants with high DT, but you do end up pretty ridiculously overpowered by level 50. Also you can take Fawkes to murder the Legion or Boone to clear out Paradise Falls.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:10 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
On pc? If nothing else you can just uninstall New Vegas and install the new one. If the save files are in a different directory just copy em.
If you have fo3 too, you can mush them together with Tale of Two Wastelands. It's harder at first because you have to face lots of FNV super mutants with high DT, but you do end up pretty ridiculously overpowered by level 50. Also you can take Fawkes to murder the Legion or Boone to clear out Paradise Falls.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:10 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
If other developers put a quarter of the effort into story as Bethesda does I'd never leave the house. There's a lot of content in there.
Compare Bethesda's Fallout 3/4 to Obsidian's Fallout New Vegas. Or Bethesda's Skyrm to CD Projekt RED's Witcher 3 Sure, there's a lot of content in the Bethesda games, but it's not really comparable in terms of consistency, choice, logic, or depth to the other two games despite all of them being open world RPGs.
What I'd love to see is Bethesda focusing on perfecting their engines and having others make the storylines/quests. That will not, unfortunately, happen. So I'll just be sad for what could have been.
posted by Justinian at 12:31 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Compare Bethesda's Fallout 3/4 to Obsidian's Fallout New Vegas. Or Bethesda's Skyrm to CD Projekt RED's Witcher 3 Sure, there's a lot of content in the Bethesda games, but it's not really comparable in terms of consistency, choice, logic, or depth to the other two games despite all of them being open world RPGs.
What I'd love to see is Bethesda focusing on perfecting their engines and having others make the storylines/quests. That will not, unfortunately, happen. So I'll just be sad for what could have been.
posted by Justinian at 12:31 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
(For example, 90% of sidequests in FO4 are of the "go here, kill everything" type with the barest of plot cover.)
posted by Justinian at 12:33 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 12:33 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
If they put a quarter the effort into the story as they do the graphics they would be creating the greatest games ever.
If other developers put a quarter of the effort into story as Bethesda does I'd never leave the house.
^^ Good illustration of different strokes for different folks. I'm a big fan of Bethesda's open world RPGs and play them much to the exclusion of any other RPG these days because of the way they create worlds more than hit the player over the head with a story. Most video game writing in general is pretty terrible, or at least, comparable to genre fantasy crap, and I personally find it bores me to tears. I'm forcing myself to play through New Vegas finally right now because so many of my friends love it so much but so far it just hasn't been engaging for me at all.
(For example, 90% of sidequests in FO4 are of the "go here, kill everything" type with the barest of plot cover.)
This was more a problem with the way they handled the radiant quests in FO4. The actual sidequests are pretty fun and entertaining but they're sparser and harder to find than the radiant quests, which by nature are pretty limited to "Go to [location] and [kill Raider leader / rescue settler / kill all mobs / etc]" Compare to Skyrim, where the radiant quests were limited to the bounties you picked up from jarls and innkeepers and you expected to be that limited.
On the topic of Bethesda's E3 announcements, they've forced my hand into jumping into VR with the announcement of the release of Fallout 4 for the HTC Vive next year. I'm tentatively saving up for one right now although I have little idea how they'll handle it or what to expect, but during my 400 hours in the game I kept thinking "Man! Wouldn't it be great to explore this world in VR! Too bad that's not going to happen, ha ha." Well played, Bethesda
posted by girih knot at 1:11 PM on June 26, 2016
If other developers put a quarter of the effort into story as Bethesda does I'd never leave the house.
^^ Good illustration of different strokes for different folks. I'm a big fan of Bethesda's open world RPGs and play them much to the exclusion of any other RPG these days because of the way they create worlds more than hit the player over the head with a story. Most video game writing in general is pretty terrible, or at least, comparable to genre fantasy crap, and I personally find it bores me to tears. I'm forcing myself to play through New Vegas finally right now because so many of my friends love it so much but so far it just hasn't been engaging for me at all.
(For example, 90% of sidequests in FO4 are of the "go here, kill everything" type with the barest of plot cover.)
This was more a problem with the way they handled the radiant quests in FO4. The actual sidequests are pretty fun and entertaining but they're sparser and harder to find than the radiant quests, which by nature are pretty limited to "Go to [location] and [kill Raider leader / rescue settler / kill all mobs / etc]" Compare to Skyrim, where the radiant quests were limited to the bounties you picked up from jarls and innkeepers and you expected to be that limited.
On the topic of Bethesda's E3 announcements, they've forced my hand into jumping into VR with the announcement of the release of Fallout 4 for the HTC Vive next year. I'm tentatively saving up for one right now although I have little idea how they'll handle it or what to expect, but during my 400 hours in the game I kept thinking "Man! Wouldn't it be great to explore this world in VR! Too bad that's not going to happen, ha ha." Well played, Bethesda
posted by girih knot at 1:11 PM on June 26, 2016
Secondly, women are allowed to get Steam accounts in this day and age. Equality and all that.
what th- (monocle falls to the ground)
posted by Sebmojo at 2:14 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
what th- (monocle falls to the ground)
posted by Sebmojo at 2:14 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
One potential benefit of the remastering is better mods. **IF** they recompile it for 64 bit it'd take out a lot of the limits that inhibit some of the more ambitious mod projects.
posted by sotonohito at 2:42 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 2:42 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
My experience of the radiant quests are the horrible Thieves' Guild grind in Skyrim and like 90% of what the game actually explicitly asks you to do in Fallout 4 so I think at some point it's time to acknowledge that it was an interesting experiment, but not a fruitful one.
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:38 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:38 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think the quests in Bethsoft games would be more interesting if they didn't seem to hate writing branching dialog trees. The combat in FO4 is very fun (IMO) from a dungeon crawl perspective, so I can play it in short bursts of having every quest be "Go to this place and play through a shooting gallery" since the scavenging and shooting are both fairly rewarding. However, I think there are (maybe) a handful of meaningful speech checks in the entire game, and otherwise your skills (well, perks) don't ever help you solve anything. That means that there's really not too many tools they can use other than simplistic puzzles and straightforward shooting segments.
I think Skyrim quests suffer from the same problems, but without the good(ish) encounter design that FO4 has, and with a less engaging combat system. That's why I'd really like to play with a combat total overhaul on the Skyrim remaster, but apparently they aren't allowing script extenders, and are capping mod size in the console mod market. Both of those are making mean lean towards not paying full price for it.
posted by codacorolla at 3:54 PM on June 26, 2016
I think Skyrim quests suffer from the same problems, but without the good(ish) encounter design that FO4 has, and with a less engaging combat system. That's why I'd really like to play with a combat total overhaul on the Skyrim remaster, but apparently they aren't allowing script extenders, and are capping mod size in the console mod market. Both of those are making mean lean towards not paying full price for it.
posted by codacorolla at 3:54 PM on June 26, 2016
However, I think there are (maybe) a handful of meaningful speech checks in the entire game, and otherwise your skills (well, perks) don't ever help you solve anything. That means that there's really not too many tools they can use other than simplistic puzzles and straightforward shooting segments.
Exactly. Bethesda is obsessed with allowing you to see 100% of the content with a single character, which of course means virtually no speech or skill checks. It's virtually impossible to make a good RPG by doing that. You can make a good action RPG (see Dark Souls even if I'm not as in love with it as most. I sure can't fault the action portion.) but not a good traditional story based RPG. The combat and such in FO4 is the best in any of the Bethesda games by a good margin but the RPGing is still quiet lacking.
The problems with Skyrim are similar, with additional balance issues. It's a beautiful world to get lost in as long as you ignore the storyline and quests and everything that makes an RPG an RPG.
posted by Justinian at 4:23 PM on June 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Exactly. Bethesda is obsessed with allowing you to see 100% of the content with a single character, which of course means virtually no speech or skill checks. It's virtually impossible to make a good RPG by doing that. You can make a good action RPG (see Dark Souls even if I'm not as in love with it as most. I sure can't fault the action portion.) but not a good traditional story based RPG. The combat and such in FO4 is the best in any of the Bethesda games by a good margin but the RPGing is still quiet lacking.
The problems with Skyrim are similar, with additional balance issues. It's a beautiful world to get lost in as long as you ignore the storyline and quests and everything that makes an RPG an RPG.
posted by Justinian at 4:23 PM on June 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
I really can't agree with codacorolla's comment strenuously enough. FO4 has so much going for it.! SO MUCH. Why wuss out on the quests and RPG elements? I guess they have decided that won't sell games like a well-made engine. And from the sales they are apparently right.
posted by Justinian at 4:25 PM on June 26, 2016
posted by Justinian at 4:25 PM on June 26, 2016
What has me excited for this is that it means that Skyrim will be adopting the new BS2 format for the texture archives that FO4 implemented. Unlike their earlier BSA archives, BS2 are specifically optimized to front load low Level-Of-Detail versions of the textures at the very front of the archive where the game engine doesn't have to unpack the whole thing to get the very basics of what needs to be painted on the 3D meshes.
It makes the rendering feel much snappier, though on lower end machines there seems to be a bit of visual pop when it transitions from the lower end LODs to the more detailed ones as you get closer to the objects. And I'm OK with that pop, if it means that the developers and the modders can slap higher res textures on everything without bogging the game down.
posted by radwolf76 at 4:40 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
It makes the rendering feel much snappier, though on lower end machines there seems to be a bit of visual pop when it transitions from the lower end LODs to the more detailed ones as you get closer to the objects. And I'm OK with that pop, if it means that the developers and the modders can slap higher res textures on everything without bogging the game down.
posted by radwolf76 at 4:40 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
But will the Macho Man Dragon mod be one of the ones whitelisted for play on consoles? IT BETTER BE.
posted by sparkletone at 5:55 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by sparkletone at 5:55 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
This made me go back to Skyrim. I was wondering why I ever left it. I walked outside my tower where a frost dragon was looking for a fight. I had completely forgotten how to play the damn game. I died five times and logged out.
posted by Splunge at 6:18 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Splunge at 6:18 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
if Bethesda dedicated a larger share of their resources to quality story content instead of graphics and quantity, they'd get knocked by reviewers for the shortness of the game and by their million+ audience for impenetrable plot and mechanics depth, which is a lot of the reason why The Witcher 1 & 2 turned off a lot of the gaming audience and why The Witcher 3, for all of its accolades, still remains a very tertiary franchise to timesinks like COD or Dota
like, they're aiming for the big bucks. the big bucks call for a pretty shallow depth of content, imo, in the same way that you see movies like Star Wars or a book series like Brian Sanderson's works pulling in much larger audiences than more niche, interesting, thoughtful writers or auteurs
the difference with games though is that the production side is so labor intensive and costly that you're not going to see a well-crafted piece of work that checks off most of the aesthetic and artistic qualities that all different kinds of people want from their entertainment
I mean, I don't think it's like a matter of 'oh Bethesda, just shift your priorities'. I think it's more a matter of 'this is our practical reality of mass-audience market testing and these are where our priorities are going to be, and most of those are going to start with the word fun and end with the word times'
posted by runt at 6:54 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
like, they're aiming for the big bucks. the big bucks call for a pretty shallow depth of content, imo, in the same way that you see movies like Star Wars or a book series like Brian Sanderson's works pulling in much larger audiences than more niche, interesting, thoughtful writers or auteurs
the difference with games though is that the production side is so labor intensive and costly that you're not going to see a well-crafted piece of work that checks off most of the aesthetic and artistic qualities that all different kinds of people want from their entertainment
I mean, I don't think it's like a matter of 'oh Bethesda, just shift your priorities'. I think it's more a matter of 'this is our practical reality of mass-audience market testing and these are where our priorities are going to be, and most of those are going to start with the word fun and end with the word times'
posted by runt at 6:54 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I've always preferred games the left a lot of the story up to the player's own imagination. There is nothing in Skyrim that supports playing as a Thalmor agent and going through an emotional journey as the game progresses. Stuff happens, you say and do things and it is left entirely up to you why you did those things. But that's me.
posted by charred husk at 7:38 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by charred husk at 7:38 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
if Bethesda dedicated a larger share of their resources to quality story content instead of graphics and quantity, they'd get knocked by reviewers for the shortness of the game and by their million+ audience for impenetrable plot and mechanics depth, which is a lot of the reason why The Witcher 1 & 2 turned off a lot of the gaming audience and why The Witcher 3, for all of its accolades, still remains a very tertiary franchise to timesinks like COD or Dota
This is true, but the Witcher 3 was both brilliant and gorgeous and basically endless, in my game I took 100 hours for the base game with a bit of pissing about, no Gwent and about one sidequest in three.
Idk, I think Bethesda RPGs are basically a genre of their own at this point, and it's a very fun and successful one.
posted by Sebmojo at 7:44 PM on June 26, 2016
This is true, but the Witcher 3 was both brilliant and gorgeous and basically endless, in my game I took 100 hours for the base game with a bit of pissing about, no Gwent and about one sidequest in three.
Idk, I think Bethesda RPGs are basically a genre of their own at this point, and it's a very fun and successful one.
posted by Sebmojo at 7:44 PM on June 26, 2016
While Witcher 3 (And especially its first DLC, Hearts of Stone) had miles better story and writing than Skyrim, I liked exploring the world of Skyrim more. All the interactive junk items made the world feel more "alive" and not just a pretty backdrop, and Skyrim has like 10x the amount of dungeons that was in Witcher 3.
posted by ymgve at 8:10 PM on June 26, 2016
posted by ymgve at 8:10 PM on June 26, 2016
Sure, but virtually all of those dungeons are procedurally generated. Which means that once you've seen the archetypes you've seen almost everything they have to offer no matter how many you explore. It becomes samey-samey.
posted by Justinian at 10:12 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 10:12 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is true, but the Witcher 3 was both brilliant and gorgeous and basically endless, in my game I took 100 hours for the base game with a bit of pissing about, no Gwent and about one sidequest in three
I did all the Gwent and most of the sidequests and ended up putting more hours into W3 than into Skyrim and its not like I skimped on Skyrim.
For comparison I have 226 hours in Fallout New Vegas (not including DLC I think which would add another 30-40 hours) and 186 hours in Fallout 4. Skyrim is likely around 150 but not on steam so I can't check, ditto with Witcher 3 but Skyrim would be similar to Fallout 4 and Witcher 3 similar to Fallout New Vegas.
Civilization IV + mods... I don't know, I don't want to know, and I'm sure it is in 4 digits.
posted by Justinian at 10:17 PM on June 26, 2016
I did all the Gwent and most of the sidequests and ended up putting more hours into W3 than into Skyrim and its not like I skimped on Skyrim.
For comparison I have 226 hours in Fallout New Vegas (not including DLC I think which would add another 30-40 hours) and 186 hours in Fallout 4. Skyrim is likely around 150 but not on steam so I can't check, ditto with Witcher 3 but Skyrim would be similar to Fallout 4 and Witcher 3 similar to Fallout New Vegas.
Civilization IV + mods... I don't know, I don't want to know, and I'm sure it is in 4 digits.
posted by Justinian at 10:17 PM on June 26, 2016
Sure, but virtually all of those dungeons are procedurally generated.
This isn't the case. The dungeons in Skyrim are all hand built; some of the overworld vegetation is procedural, but that's about it.
Still, it doesn't have anything on Morrowind, where all the NPCs in the core game were placed by hand and had names.
posted by fifthrider at 10:19 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
This isn't the case. The dungeons in Skyrim are all hand built; some of the overworld vegetation is procedural, but that's about it.
Still, it doesn't have anything on Morrowind, where all the NPCs in the core game were placed by hand and had names.
posted by fifthrider at 10:19 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Anyone else think that Remastered footage of Riverwood looked like a Thomas Kincaide painting or is that just me?
posted by Eikonaut at 10:48 PM on June 26, 2016
posted by Eikonaut at 10:48 PM on June 26, 2016
This isn't the case. The dungeons in Skyrim are all hand built; some of the overworld vegetation is procedural, but that's about it.
Still, it doesn't have anything on Morrowind, where all the NPCs in the core game were placed by hand and had names.
Well, there's Procedurally Generated, and then there's "Procedrurally" generated. There may not have been an automated script hooked to a random number generator churning out dungeons without any human intervention, but the level designers who worked on Skyrim did seem to have a bunch of snap-together templates to cut and paste from in the Creation Kit, and from how they were built, it does give the strong impression that there was some kind of design document outline that they were ticking off checkboxes as they went.
It gets to the point where you enter the same sloped corridor with burial alcoves that you've seen in the last half-dozen dungeons, and you already know which alcoves to shoot your fireballs at to get the drop on the draugr that's laying there waiting for you to walk by so they can ambush you from behind.
posted by radwolf76 at 11:39 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Still, it doesn't have anything on Morrowind, where all the NPCs in the core game were placed by hand and had names.
Well, there's Procedurally Generated, and then there's "Procedrurally" generated. There may not have been an automated script hooked to a random number generator churning out dungeons without any human intervention, but the level designers who worked on Skyrim did seem to have a bunch of snap-together templates to cut and paste from in the Creation Kit, and from how they were built, it does give the strong impression that there was some kind of design document outline that they were ticking off checkboxes as they went.
It gets to the point where you enter the same sloped corridor with burial alcoves that you've seen in the last half-dozen dungeons, and you already know which alcoves to shoot your fireballs at to get the drop on the draugr that's laying there waiting for you to walk by so they can ambush you from behind.
posted by radwolf76 at 11:39 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I know from the entry in my Steam library that I played it for more than eighty hours but I still don't remember enjoying Skyrim at all.
posted by Evilspork at 1:53 AM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Evilspork at 1:53 AM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Right, the Skyrim dungeons are hand built in the same way IKEA furniture is hand built. You're manually assembling a bunch of repeated pieces.
I guess "procedurally generated" wasn't the right term though.
posted by Justinian at 1:55 AM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I guess "procedurally generated" wasn't the right term though.
posted by Justinian at 1:55 AM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Disappointed that Steam stats don't have a "Satisfaction" number I can look up.
posted by sneebler at 6:35 AM on June 27, 2016
posted by sneebler at 6:35 AM on June 27, 2016
I think, eventually, procedurally generated will come into its own. Imagine something like Deep Mind trained to make plots, quests, dungeons, even NPC's and monsters. It might never be *quite* as creative as a human, but I'm sure that eventually it'll make for perfectly acceptable endless play.
With some voice synth it could even do fully voiced characters one day.
But that day is not today, and yeah today most procedural generation sucks.
I still maintain that the Radiant AI could have done better if it hadn't been hampered by the limits of the 360 and PS3, but even without those limits it wouldn't have been all that great.
posted by sotonohito at 7:11 AM on June 27, 2016
With some voice synth it could even do fully voiced characters one day.
But that day is not today, and yeah today most procedural generation sucks.
I still maintain that the Radiant AI could have done better if it hadn't been hampered by the limits of the 360 and PS3, but even without those limits it wouldn't have been all that great.
posted by sotonohito at 7:11 AM on June 27, 2016
"Imagine something like Deep Mind trained to make plots, quests, dungeons, even NPC's and monsters."
We could finally have a decent Call of Cthulhu computer game.
posted by Evilspork at 10:59 AM on June 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
We could finally have a decent Call of Cthulhu computer game.
posted by Evilspork at 10:59 AM on June 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think, eventually, procedurally generated will come into its own. Imagine something like Deep Mind trained to make plots, quests, dungeons, even NPC's and monsters. It might never be *quite* as creative as a human, but I'm sure that eventually it'll make for perfectly acceptable endless play.
That's always been the dream. In 2003, researchers from MIT's Media Lab did a project where they connected up natural language processing to Morrowind's Construction Set to generate rudimentary room layouts by defining what the available objects were and their typical relationships with each other. (My favorite pull-quote from their presentation: "Editors to create 3D environments represent some of the most complex software applications ever created.")
Myself, I would just be happy when speech synthesis gets far enough out of the uncanny valley that they can have a fully voiced game that sells pre-orders and gets them free advertising from game streaming and LetsPlays (no one wants to have to read when they're watching someone else play), without being bound by the constraints of how many lines the voice actors can record.
Because I miss the sweeping expanses of Kirkbride-written dialogue that were what made the worldbuilding they did for Morrowind so rich. It would also fix Radiant Quests some because they could have so much more specific and detailed variety in how the questgivers issue them. And while we're probably still years off from being a perfect match for what you get from a voice actor, I wouldn't mind having the voice talent read the important, plot-related lines to give them the best emotional punch, and the character getting a slightly different voice for the rest of the lines. Hell, even though they won't admit it, they had two voice actors for Skyrim's Esbern. Max Von Sydow did the overarching story critical lines, but there was a second voice that they brought in to do gameplay-specific lines that were likely added later in development like when he warns you about traps up ahead.
posted by radwolf76 at 4:49 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
That's always been the dream. In 2003, researchers from MIT's Media Lab did a project where they connected up natural language processing to Morrowind's Construction Set to generate rudimentary room layouts by defining what the available objects were and their typical relationships with each other. (My favorite pull-quote from their presentation: "Editors to create 3D environments represent some of the most complex software applications ever created.")
Myself, I would just be happy when speech synthesis gets far enough out of the uncanny valley that they can have a fully voiced game that sells pre-orders and gets them free advertising from game streaming and LetsPlays (no one wants to have to read when they're watching someone else play), without being bound by the constraints of how many lines the voice actors can record.
Because I miss the sweeping expanses of Kirkbride-written dialogue that were what made the worldbuilding they did for Morrowind so rich. It would also fix Radiant Quests some because they could have so much more specific and detailed variety in how the questgivers issue them. And while we're probably still years off from being a perfect match for what you get from a voice actor, I wouldn't mind having the voice talent read the important, plot-related lines to give them the best emotional punch, and the character getting a slightly different voice for the rest of the lines. Hell, even though they won't admit it, they had two voice actors for Skyrim's Esbern. Max Von Sydow did the overarching story critical lines, but there was a second voice that they brought in to do gameplay-specific lines that were likely added later in development like when he warns you about traps up ahead.
posted by radwolf76 at 4:49 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
**IF** they recompile it for 64 bit
Both console targets are 64 bit, so they've done that work. It's rarely just a simple re-compile for a codebase as old and hairy as theirs must be though.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 8:52 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Both console targets are 64 bit, so they've done that work. It's rarely just a simple re-compile for a codebase as old and hairy as theirs must be though.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 8:52 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I had the same gripes as Justinian - so much #content but the actual gameplay seems to be a mile wide and an inch deep. However I find myself missing the game and looking forward to the remaster. For all my gripes, it's a lovely world to spend time in. Bethesda knows how to create such spaces better than anyone. (Morrowind is still the highwater mark for world-building, imo. A remake should seriously be on the table.)
posted by naju at 4:59 PM on June 28, 2016
posted by naju at 4:59 PM on June 28, 2016
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