Stoya Said Stop.
June 27, 2016 11:35 AM Subscribe
Stoya on James Deen and Fixing the Porn Industry. "She was one-half of porn’s power couple before she accused her ex-boyfriend James Deen of rape. Now she’s trying to fix the industry from the inside."
I'm not sure if Stoya's still with the organization, but the Adult Performer Advocacy Committee put out a great video that is 100% worth watching for people who might be considering being an adult performer. It talks about consent, finances, thinking about the future and is incredibly well made. She is featured heavily and it is SFW, IIRC.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:44 PM on June 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 12:44 PM on June 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
If you're curious about the allegations - and how the familiar story of "man presents a feminist face in public and women are therefore disbelieved when they try to speak out against him" plays out in the porn industry - this is a good read.
posted by perplexion at 12:45 PM on June 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by perplexion at 12:45 PM on June 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
i have reread this three times already. it's so good. the clayton cubitt photos are stunning and reflect the laid bare nature that the article is going for/stoya is going after in her career.
i especially loved this :
i especially loved this :
For Stoya’s part, she wants more than anything to move on. “What I don’t want is for my entire career and therefore entire life to be all about James and what he did to me,” she says. “Has my life not been all about James and what he did to me for long enough?”this makes me want to buy a membership to her site :
“So now the thing is making it very, very clear to her that she absolutely can back out, even though it doesn’t seem like that’s what she wants to do,” Stoya says. “Every time anything changes, it has to be like, you know you can be done. And even when we’ve shot ten minutes of footage, she can be done.” Stoya has already paid Ava $700, a typical rate for a female performer in this kind of solo scene, and advised her not to email back the release papers until Ava sees and signs off on the edited footage.this is wonderful :
Stoya says she has a lot to look forward to. Such as? “I’m joyfully awaiting my first gray pube.”posted by nadawi at 2:40 PM on June 27, 2016 [15 favorites]
I'm pretty sure her career is not defined by James Deen and what he did to her. Deen is one of the few men in porn who is famous, but Stoya is famous in a field where a lot of women are quite well-known. She'll be relevant much longer than he'll ever be.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:34 PM on June 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:34 PM on June 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
i totally understand that fear though. i do feel in some ways like people who know my history with sexual assault in some ways define me by it, and i'm lucky that none of my rapists are notable/unknown to most who define me by that.
posted by nadawi at 4:19 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by nadawi at 4:19 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
She'll be relevant much longer than he'll ever be.
Ron Jeremy has been fucking on film and getting paid to do it for 40 years. Please point to a female actor in the adult industry with that kind of longevity.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:28 PM on June 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ron Jeremy has been fucking on film and getting paid to do it for 40 years. Please point to a female actor in the adult industry with that kind of longevity.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:28 PM on June 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
She may be a physical outlier in traditional porn but she is described in an uncomfortably childlike way.
posted by waving at 4:34 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by waving at 4:34 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Nina Hartley has been around a long time, and has been in mainstream films, is generally quite respected as a director, writer, and sex educator, and is still (at 57) an adult performer. But she and Ron Jeremy are both freakish outliers in an industry that trades on youth. So are Stoya and Deen, just in the sense that their popularity is so overwhelming, and has crossed over so much into the wider culture. But that culture is really not terribly forgiving of "good guy" porn actors who rape women, number one, and number two, Stoya has crossed over a lot. I can't recall another porn actor who wrote an editorial for the New York Times. I just get the sense there is a great deal more sand in her hourglass than in his.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:39 PM on June 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:39 PM on June 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
all the same, he's doing fine in his career and doesn't really seem to be suffering from being a 'good guy' rapist. the idea that our culture is at all unforgiving of men who abuse women isn't something i see terribly often.
posted by nadawi at 5:31 PM on June 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 5:31 PM on June 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
The thing that I find tremendously sad is how many people loved him and made up this imaginary reality in which he was a caring and loving feminist who just portrayed forcefulness for the camera. They really wanted it to be true. Their fantasy was someone sexy who is also a nice person.
That's a pretty low bar, but it's still something they don't have.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:41 PM on June 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
That's a pretty low bar, but it's still something they don't have.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:41 PM on June 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
i'll admit that until stoya tweeted, i liked deen because that was something i did have, many times, as a female submissive. i have been with lots of amazing men who are dominate and forceful and kind and generous. i obviously haven't revisited his material since, but porn in general can feel like a reflection and not just wish fulfillment, even when it's women watching it.
but, after the revealing of who he really is, i did have to wrestle with the fact that i knew those men too in my experiences of submission.
posted by nadawi at 6:07 PM on June 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
but, after the revealing of who he really is, i did have to wrestle with the fact that i knew those men too in my experiences of submission.
posted by nadawi at 6:07 PM on June 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
all the same, he's doing fine in his career and doesn't really seem to be suffering from being a 'good guy' rapist. the idea that our culture is at all unforgiving of men who abuse women isn't something i see terribly often.
The saddest part of this article for me was when the author noted that his career is back on track.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:32 PM on June 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
The saddest part of this article for me was when the author noted that his career is back on track.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:32 PM on June 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
DarlingBri, Nina hartley comes to mind.
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 6:44 AM on June 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 6:44 AM on June 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ron Jeremy has been fucking on film and getting paid to do it for 40 years. Please point to a female actor in the adult industry with that kind of longevity.
Others have come up with examples, but it's still pretty irrelevant. Jeremy is an outlier, a beneficiary of having become somewhat of a cultural touchstone and recognizable in both image and name. You'd find plenty of people who don't necessary know what he looks like - now or in his prime - who would recognize his name.
Even that is kind of irrelevant. The arc of fame for men and women in the straight porn industry is very different, and the men don't command the power or the money that the women do. They are paid less for the same work. They're much more replaceable, and the extent that they're not is usually an outlier. Everyone is sacrificed on the altar of youth and trend.
I think it true that Stoya will be relevant longer because she's doing what the most successful women in porn over time do - get involved behind the camera and in other ways. Jeremy is still in the public eye because of good brand management. Same is true of Nina Hartley. Stoya is not only doing good brand management but is also producing, as other operators like Candida Royale has done, and diversifying into other areas.
Deen's brand is that of jerk and rapist. Clearly he's doing a good job of keeping his connections with people who are willing to associate with him and maybe he'll slime his way into being a part of an ongoing operation so he can manage to keep getting paid despite people's distaste.
But all of that aside, I think kittens is right in the basic assertion: women are the stars in porn, and a decade after they have fallen from the public eye people remember a lot more of their favorite female stars than they do the men. That may reflect nothing more than the fact that there's more straight male porn consumers than any other demographic, but the end result is that a bunch of people will have an uncomplicated recollection of their fave, Stoya. A bunch of other people may recall liking Deen as a performer, but his legacy is going to include this allegation and the reports around it about what a jerk he is even if they don't believe he's also a rapist.
posted by phearlez at 7:57 AM on June 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Others have come up with examples, but it's still pretty irrelevant. Jeremy is an outlier, a beneficiary of having become somewhat of a cultural touchstone and recognizable in both image and name. You'd find plenty of people who don't necessary know what he looks like - now or in his prime - who would recognize his name.
Even that is kind of irrelevant. The arc of fame for men and women in the straight porn industry is very different, and the men don't command the power or the money that the women do. They are paid less for the same work. They're much more replaceable, and the extent that they're not is usually an outlier. Everyone is sacrificed on the altar of youth and trend.
I think it true that Stoya will be relevant longer because she's doing what the most successful women in porn over time do - get involved behind the camera and in other ways. Jeremy is still in the public eye because of good brand management. Same is true of Nina Hartley. Stoya is not only doing good brand management but is also producing, as other operators like Candida Royale has done, and diversifying into other areas.
Deen's brand is that of jerk and rapist. Clearly he's doing a good job of keeping his connections with people who are willing to associate with him and maybe he'll slime his way into being a part of an ongoing operation so he can manage to keep getting paid despite people's distaste.
But all of that aside, I think kittens is right in the basic assertion: women are the stars in porn, and a decade after they have fallen from the public eye people remember a lot more of their favorite female stars than they do the men. That may reflect nothing more than the fact that there's more straight male porn consumers than any other demographic, but the end result is that a bunch of people will have an uncomplicated recollection of their fave, Stoya. A bunch of other people may recall liking Deen as a performer, but his legacy is going to include this allegation and the reports around it about what a jerk he is even if they don't believe he's also a rapist.
posted by phearlez at 7:57 AM on June 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Their fantasy was someone sexy who is also a nice person.
Forever my bulletproof kink, however unattainable.
posted by nicebookrack at 10:57 AM on June 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Forever my bulletproof kink, however unattainable.
posted by nicebookrack at 10:57 AM on June 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
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This. A billion times, this.
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 11:55 AM on June 27, 2016 [47 favorites]