"This note 'did not yet exist' on pianos"
July 1, 2016 8:18 AM Subscribe
A list of extremes of conventional music notation. "Conventional Western music notation is far more complex and subtle than most people think. In particular, it does not have well-defined borders; it just fades away indefinitely in all directions."
Fascinating!
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:07 AM on July 1, 2016
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:07 AM on July 1, 2016
Looking at the shortness of notes, it appears that quasihemidemisemiquavers actually get used. Wow. (I wrote this comment because it allows me to use quasihemidemisemiquaver(s) in three sentences, something I never thought I'd get to do.) And face it, quasihemidemisemiquaver is better than semihemidemisemiquaver (a synonym that wikipedia likes), as the second one repeats "semi", which I find unacceptable.
posted by Hactar at 9:10 AM on July 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Hactar at 9:10 AM on July 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
TIL many of the novelty scores I witnessed as a young band geek were written by the same man: John Stump.
posted by modernserf at 9:32 AM on July 1, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by modernserf at 9:32 AM on July 1, 2016 [5 favorites]
For people wondering what a non-power-of-two meter might sound like, there's one in Soundgarden's "Pretty Noose" at e.g. 1:04 in. (See some discussion here and in the links from that post.)
posted by kenko at 9:47 AM on July 1, 2016
posted by kenko at 9:47 AM on July 1, 2016
quasihemidemisemiquavers
keep that contained on your island please
posted by thelonius at 9:54 AM on July 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
keep that contained on your island please
posted by thelonius at 9:54 AM on July 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
pp = pianissimo
pppppppp = pianissississississississimo
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 10:08 AM on July 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
pppppppp = pianissississississississimo
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 10:08 AM on July 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
This does not apply to me today. I am practicing Hanon finger exercises on my Yamaha U1 right now. (By that I mean as soon as I stop procrastinating on Metafilter.)
posted by kozad at 10:17 AM on July 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by kozad at 10:17 AM on July 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
So reading music can potentially be as complex as parsing URLs or HTML?
posted by infinitewindow at 10:48 AM on July 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by infinitewindow at 10:48 AM on July 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
Eh, I have less trouble with the incredible specific than the incredibly not specified.
Like this Scriabin prelude in 2/2 that has 8ths grouped 5 to the half note in the right hand and un-labled quarter note triplets, both grouped over barlines. I mean, so simple when you listen, but pretty ambiguous just on paper.
posted by Gygesringtone at 11:24 AM on July 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
Like this Scriabin prelude in 2/2 that has 8ths grouped 5 to the half note in the right hand and un-labled quarter note triplets, both grouped over barlines. I mean, so simple when you listen, but pretty ambiguous just on paper.
posted by Gygesringtone at 11:24 AM on July 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
pp = pianissimo
pppppppp = pianissississississississimo
And fffff is fortisisisisimo.
I've always been amused that in music you pronounce extra p's or extra f's by adding extra s's.
posted by straight at 11:31 AM on July 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
pppppppp = pianissississississississimo
And fffff is fortisisisisimo.
I've always been amused that in music you pronounce extra p's or extra f's by adding extra s's.
posted by straight at 11:31 AM on July 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
This reminds of a recent video about Conlon Nancarrow whose extreme scores violate the laws of physics. Amazing that the composer hand-cut player piano roles so that his music, which was impossible for humans to perform, could be realized.
posted by layceepee at 12:41 PM on July 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by layceepee at 12:41 PM on July 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
No mention of black MIDI, or is that non-standard?
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:46 PM on July 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:46 PM on July 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
No mention of black MIDI, or is that non-standard?
The Conlon Nancarrow link is about that, in part. (Adam Neely's channel has a lot of interesting content, too...). I guess you could give that stuff to a MIDI-to -notation program and see what you get....
posted by thelonius at 1:05 PM on July 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
The Conlon Nancarrow link is about that, in part. (Adam Neely's channel has a lot of interesting content, too...). I guess you could give that stuff to a MIDI-to -notation program and see what you get....
posted by thelonius at 1:05 PM on July 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
I wonder how he would categorize notation for "extended techniques." Did I miss some discussion of such notation? (After very cursory reading, I did a ctrl-f search of the document but didn't find anything.)
I mean, if you take a look at notation for piano extended techniques (pdf) or for flute extended techniques, you see something that often has elements of graphical or "conceptual" notation, but it is clearly operating under something like conventional constraints.
I wonder how he would categorize this piece by my wife (as performed by Katrina Leshan), which involves lots of use of a comb to play a classical guitar. I wish Kerrith had the score posted somewhere online. I know she did a lot of work on the notation for various ways of using the comb.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 1:40 PM on July 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
I mean, if you take a look at notation for piano extended techniques (pdf) or for flute extended techniques, you see something that often has elements of graphical or "conceptual" notation, but it is clearly operating under something like conventional constraints.
I wonder how he would categorize this piece by my wife (as performed by Katrina Leshan), which involves lots of use of a comb to play a classical guitar. I wish Kerrith had the score posted somewhere online. I know she did a lot of work on the notation for various ways of using the comb.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 1:40 PM on July 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
...Otello (1887), Act I, opens with a tone cluster(!) in the organ of C2,C#2,D2, lasting 244 measures...
That doesn't seem very pleasant.
posted by MtDewd at 1:55 PM on July 1, 2016
That doesn't seem very pleasant.
posted by MtDewd at 1:55 PM on July 1, 2016
Great post, I was just talking with my wife last night about how, to me, western musical notation remains the most important technological advance in music to date. Not just the specifics of how to write sounds down in a way that another person can reproduce the variables of timing, frequency, duration, amplitude, envelope, etc., with some degree of accuracy to your imagination, but even moreso the concepts that had to be worked out collaboratively over a few hundred years in the first place, to allow creation of the specific tools to write them down.
(I'm thinking of mensural proportions or how to organize simultaneous differing frequencies, which we take absolutely for granted with well-developed systems like meter & rhythm, harmony & voice leading, and so on. It took literally centuries just to figure out how to divide the flow of time in a meaningful way, and what could be done with patterns once you do that!)
Musical notation of all kinds is simply amazing, but western musical notation especially so because of the degree to which it has developed and the ways it keeps expanding. I am delighted that, deep into this age of recording technology and the vastly common practice of making concrete music, we still are actively using and expanding this written, precise yet subjective system.
Also, on topic for this specific post: I love that the loudest dynamic marking is Ligeti, but closely followed by Tchaikovsky and Ives. One of the very few categories that could put those three musical imaginations in the same box.
posted by LooseFilter at 2:03 PM on July 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
(I'm thinking of mensural proportions or how to organize simultaneous differing frequencies, which we take absolutely for granted with well-developed systems like meter & rhythm, harmony & voice leading, and so on. It took literally centuries just to figure out how to divide the flow of time in a meaningful way, and what could be done with patterns once you do that!)
Musical notation of all kinds is simply amazing, but western musical notation especially so because of the degree to which it has developed and the ways it keeps expanding. I am delighted that, deep into this age of recording technology and the vastly common practice of making concrete music, we still are actively using and expanding this written, precise yet subjective system.
Also, on topic for this specific post: I love that the loudest dynamic marking is Ligeti, but closely followed by Tchaikovsky and Ives. One of the very few categories that could put those three musical imaginations in the same box.
posted by LooseFilter at 2:03 PM on July 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
I suspect that the author would classify black MIDI (and Conlon Nancarrow's work) as "conceptual", inasmuch as it's unplayable by humans. (Which doesn't mean it's not interesting, or not fun to listen to.)
That doesn't seem very pleasant.
The beginning of Otello is a set on stormy night on the coast. Unfortunately, the tone cluster isn't really audible in the recordings that are available on YouTube; my guess is that the bass is just not audible on these. In practice, it would probably come be perceived as a low rumbling of indeterminate pitch — which would probably be effective for giving the impression of distant thunder & wind.
posted by Johnny Assay at 2:22 PM on July 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
That doesn't seem very pleasant.
The beginning of Otello is a set on stormy night on the coast. Unfortunately, the tone cluster isn't really audible in the recordings that are available on YouTube; my guess is that the bass is just not audible on these. In practice, it would probably come be perceived as a low rumbling of indeterminate pitch — which would probably be effective for giving the impression of distant thunder & wind.
posted by Johnny Assay at 2:22 PM on July 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
Labelling Nancarrow and Ferneyhough as "conceptual" is not right. They are anything but conceptual, because what they want is actual highly precise organization of sounds, actualized by actual performers. Neither Ferneyhough nor Nancarrow are offering up theoretical creations for mental contemplation; they quite definitely expect their music to be performed and heard. And many performers HAVE performed these high-complexity works; Ferneyhough is all over the internet and the Nancarrow etudes for player piano have been excitingly realized by the Bugallo-Williams Duo for piano (four hands) which is REALLY COOL.
posted by daisystomper at 3:22 PM on July 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by daisystomper at 3:22 PM on July 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
Do they have notation for mod wheels and pitch bends yet? What about all the notes between C2 and C#2, maaaaan?
posted by aspersioncast at 12:01 AM on July 4, 2016
posted by aspersioncast at 12:01 AM on July 4, 2016
Reminds me of Marc Andre Hamelin's Circus Gallop, which was scored for player piano. Apparently, it takes 6 hands to cover it live.
posted by plinth at 6:44 PM on July 5, 2016
posted by plinth at 6:44 PM on July 5, 2016
But Marc Andre Hamelin only has five hands!
posted by uosuaq at 7:15 PM on July 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 7:15 PM on July 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
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