Posting the Thing.

July 7, 2016 7:05 PM

How strong is the Thing?

The Thing previously.
The religion of the Thing.

posted by vrakatar (51 comments total)

Could The Thing thing a thing that he couldn't thing?
posted by blue_beetle at 7:14 PM on July 7, 2016 [4 favorites]

Who is stronger, Thing 1 or Thing 2?
Trick question, it's Little Cat Z!
posted by blueberry at 7:21 PM on July 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

......I thought this was about John Carpenter's The Thing. I was very excited. Now, disappointed. I will move on.
posted by Neronomius at 7:24 PM on July 7, 2016 [20 favorites]

It's a pretty ridiculous discussion, given that both the Thing and the Hulk have changed remarkably, physically and otherwise (and especially Bruce), over the decades. And I stopped reading this post at this point:

The Champion of the Universe is one of the alien Elders of the Universe. In other words, he's Galactus level.

Ha ha who the fuck is he kidding. The Champion got knocked out by She-Hulk after she worked out in her human form sufficiently to get jacked, since her strength increases proportionately. He may have approached that level when he had the strength Infinity Gem, but so what, so would Stephen Hawking.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:28 PM on July 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

Ben Grim is... John Carpenter's The Thing!?!?
posted by blue_beetle at 7:30 PM on July 7, 2016

He's weaker than hulk
posted by clockzero at 7:43 PM on July 7, 2016 [3 favorites]

I would have thought it's transparent that The Thing and The Hulk are both precisely as strong (or strong relative to one another) as required for whatever plot the authors want to write out.
posted by wildblueyonder at 8:15 PM on July 7, 2016 [15 favorites]

The rest of this site is worth a look as well - I'm not sure I buy that the Fantastic Four is the Great American Novel but his argument is compellingly told I think.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:17 PM on July 7, 2016

How strong is The Thing?

I don't know, but he's weird and pissed off!
posted by Artw at 8:29 PM on July 7, 2016 [5 favorites]

I would have thought it's transparent that The Thing and The Hulk are both precisely as strong (or strong relative to one another) as required for whatever plot the authors want to write out.

That is a very correct but slightly boring answer.
posted by Artw at 8:30 PM on July 7, 2016 [8 favorites]

The madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets. Is there a ceiling on the Hulk's anger? Doubt it. So even if the Thing were as strong as the Hulk on an average day (which is false; see below), a sufficiently infuriated Hulk will still be stronger.

Also: Hulk is the strongest one there is. We've been over this already! Hulk tells us this himself. Is Hulk a liar? No.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:32 PM on July 7, 2016 [8 favorites]

Counter argument: no Film Crit Thing watering things down.
posted by Artw at 8:37 PM on July 7, 2016 [4 favorites]

Champion replied he could never defeat the Thing. He might break his bones and his body, but he could not break his spirit. Any planet which could produce a champion such as the Thing, he said, was a truly worthy world."

Ah! This is the exact same plot of an episode of Dial M For Monkey, the original B cartoon that aired with Dexter's Lab! Except there, the Thing was a really strong superhero chimp and The Champion was Rassilor, voiced awesomely by Macho Man Randy Savage. In fact, Macho Man, in the episode, makes nearly the exact same speech!
posted by JHarris at 8:52 PM on July 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

Does the Thing have bones? I always assumed he was a kind of sentient crème brûlée, based on his appearance.
posted by beerperson at 9:03 PM on July 7, 2016 [7 favorites]

The Amazing Anatomy of The Thing
posted by Artw at 9:25 PM on July 7, 2016 [8 favorites]

Why would there not be a ceiling on Hulk's anger? Emotional responses seem like something that reaches an asymptote at some point.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 9:32 PM on July 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

The only thing (ahem) that that Thing's Anatomy doesn't address is his, well, his thing. I can't remember the cartoonist (Randy Milholland, maybe?), but someone did a cartoon once showing Ben Grimm being caught getting busy with a rock polisher.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:46 PM on July 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

The Hulk is basically a giant Toddler, so presumably near limitless anger would precede Sudden tiredness and a nap.
posted by Artw at 9:56 PM on July 7, 2016 [5 favorites]

> The Amazing Anatomy of The Thing

So one were to take the linked diagram at face value -- that (The) Thing's stomach converts organic matter into base carbon "soup" and then his mutated kidneys excrete the carbon soup into his skin to make it (and presumably other parts of his anatomy) stay all rocky, how does one explain away his missing anus?
posted by christopherious at 10:48 PM on July 7, 2016

Amazing scientific discoveries tell us that the Thing's strength exceeds the range of 8.75 to 9.0 superzillion metric clobberations per light year, at sea level.
posted by Segundus at 12:18 AM on July 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

how does one explain away his missing anus?

The Thing don't take no shit.
posted by Segundus at 12:19 AM on July 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

I've always sort of figured the Thing was on the lower end of the super strong scale, as most of the FF (Human Torch's absurd overpowering aside) had pretty lame powers and never really seemed all that powerful, more just really skilled at using their power.

A strictly scientific ordering of characters from out of my butt, in terms of strength (non-Galaxy level edition):

Hulk
Juggernaut
Thor
Hercules
Colossus

Steep drop off

Rogue?
Namor?
The Thing?
Venom
Spider-Man
posted by Ghidorah at 1:45 AM on July 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Hulk's strength is variable, depending on how long he has had to queue and other things like that, so he is not a good comparator in any rigorous strength assessment methodology.

Doesn't Marvel produce encyclopaedias listing how much these characters can bench, and similar data? I am sure I remember them from playing the Marvel RPG as a kid.
posted by biffa at 2:43 AM on July 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

shaddap.

Colossus above the Thing? In his dreams. Hercules too.
posted by MartinWisse at 3:25 AM on July 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Here's the Marvel database strength scale. Its not going to solve the Thing vs Hulk question either.
posted by biffa at 3:37 AM on July 8, 2016

how does one explain away his missing anus?

It's been renamed "Yancy St."
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:39 AM on July 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

christopherious: "how does one explain away his missing anus?"

Or anyone's, really?
posted by chavenet at 4:10 AM on July 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Strength Scale on the Marvel wikia. Of course, The Hulk, The Thing, Colossus, and Hercules are all listed in the "potentially incalculable, able to lift in excess of 100 tons" category, so it's no help at all.

(Colossus, IMO, is a piker who does not belong on the short list.)
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:41 AM on July 8, 2016

According to the original Marvel Super Heroes RPG, Colossus and the Thing both have Monstrous strength levels - i.e. are able to lift arounnd 75 tons with difficulty, but can lift more by using power feats (i.e. heroic acts).

That puts them a level below the Hulk, Hercules and Thor, who all have Unearthly strength (able to lift 100 tons). However, although this is an official statement, it probably isn't canonical.

(The Hulk can theoretically increase his strength beyond this point by getting angrier, as we probably saw in e.g. World War Hulk, where his power levels were excalated by a constant and massive rage.)

Also, that was when Colossus was a relatively young man - about 19-20 - and we've seen for reasons both in-universe and in-narrative that mutant powers tend to increase over time, even if you don't get a power boost like becoming the Juggernaut. At this point it's not unreasonable to suppose that he is Namor-level, which is to say calm-Hulk level.)

One potential get-out is that all of these beings' strengths work differently - the Thng has an exoskeleton, the Hulk is (probably) a mass of constantly regenerating and growing cells, Colossus is actually made of metal, Thor and Hercules probably have some intrisically mystical supplement, and so on - so they will perform differently in different environments.
posted by running order squabble fest at 4:57 AM on July 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Huh. The old Marvel RPG (mind you, this is mid nineties) that Rogue was at 50+ tons, and Colossus was at 75+. I think, if I remember, The Thing was either equal to Rogue or just below, like 40+ or something. There was an issue when they were in the Outback, post whatever that crossover in Dallas was, when everyone thought the XMen died, where they all got super overpowered, and they were testing Colossus' strength, and it was well past 75 tons, and Rogue, too, was way past 50. Of course, that was probably a dozen cycles of overpowering then power draining.
posted by Ghidorah at 4:58 AM on July 8, 2016

I've always sort of figured the Thing was on the lower end of the super strong scale, as most of the FF (Human Torch's absurd overpowering aside) had pretty lame powers and never really seemed all that powerful, more just really skilled at using their power.

Bingo. The FF's strength comes from being a team and a family. Individually they're mid-range supers at best, but teamwork makes them much more.

I'll never forget a FF What If? comic I read once, in which the wreckage of their craft is discovered by technicians (working for Doctor Doom, if I recall correctly) who take the Four into custody. One of the techs finds Ben Grimm and remarks "I've never seen a case of dermal calcification this bad. He probably won't last the night." Gruesome.

(I love alternate universes where everything just goes completely to shit. Read Warren Ellis's Ruins, if you haven't already.)
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:21 AM on July 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

holy shit that fantastic four site.... that is a lot of magnificent obsession right there.
posted by entropicamericana at 5:28 AM on July 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

(I love alternate universes where everything just goes completely to shit. Read Warren Ellis's Ruins, if you haven't already.)

No kidding.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:23 AM on July 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Marvel strength chart.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 6:54 AM on July 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

My first thought was the hand in a box from the Addams Family. Who, I imagine, can lift like ninety tons, because, hey, he's a hand in a box!
posted by AzraelBrown at 7:31 AM on July 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I like the "the stubborner he gets the stronger he is". It matches up well with Ben's character.
posted by cuscutis at 9:10 AM on July 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

I haven't seen season 6 yet, but this seems like a perfect setup for a showdown between Ned the Human Callus and Treister-Hulk.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:54 AM on July 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Bah, I'm pretty sure Pippi Longstocking and Bamse would beat all of these clowns.
posted by effbot at 4:02 PM on July 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Thing is powerful enough to pull vehicles filled with entire families hundreds of yards off their route without even touching them! (Sorry, my own first thought when I encounter the phrase "The Thing".)
posted by Creosote at 4:56 PM on July 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

1970s Antihero> Marvel strength chart.

Huh. Captain America is was classified as being within "normal human" range.

Modern Cap is now "Superhuman: 800+ lbs to 2 ton range"

Holy carp, ArtW! There were a couple of interesting intelligent design features on Thing; Homo sapiens' unarmed melee attack typically defaults to using fists, which is a terrible weapon. The hand has a lot of delicate bones and they are also the main fine environmental manipulators available to this species.

Thing's hands' anatomy mitigates virtually all of the downsides. A little surprised that - as intelligently designed as it is - they didn't include enhancements like in the tail of ankylosauruses, like extra boney plates or knobs. But I guess they might not look friendly.

If you really have to hit someone, hit them with something in your hand. Rock, glass bottle, billiard ball, whatever. Or diversify into stabbing and cutting weapons.

You really don't want to break your hand, especially by hitting someone with it. You might have to keep trying to hit them again.
posted by porpoise at 6:49 PM on July 8, 2016

I can name everyone on that chart. I love that chart.
posted by vrakatar at 7:26 PM on July 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Captain America placement is weird considering Mark Gruenwald wrote that piece, and also wrote the Captain America comic (later, I think), and so really should have known better. Cap's definitely got superhuman strength, and had it at that time.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:24 PM on July 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm weirded out by the placement of She-Hulk on the chart. She should be at least one category higher. And taller.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 3:28 AM on July 9, 2016

The long, in-depth, nerdy explanation of why Ben Grimm is--no really--totally as strong as the Hulk is charming. But the best article on that website is the detailed, well-supported argument that Reed Richards and Victor Von Doom aren't really super-geniuses but just clever hackers who happened to get their hands on a bunch of alien technology they were able to reverse-engineer.
posted by straight at 3:49 AM on July 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Cap's definitely got superhuman strength, and had it at that time.

Nerd hat on: Captain America's whole deal is that the Super-Soldier Serum elevated his physique to the peak of human potential: he's as strong as the strongest non-super person, as fast as the fastest non-super person, as agile as the agile-est non-super person, etc. So he's canonically not supposed to have superhuman strength, just, like, as much strength as you can have before you cross that line.
posted by Shepherd at 4:13 AM on July 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

John Carpenter's The Thing - The Musical
posted by ostranenie at 4:49 AM on July 9, 2016

I can name everyone on that chart. I love that chart.

Who's the Jesus dude on tier four?
posted by 1970s Antihero at 12:48 PM on July 9, 2016

The Aquarian. Some kind of hippy from space.
posted by vrakatar at 2:46 PM on July 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Basically a Steve Gerber piss-take of Superman.
posted by Artw at 4:12 PM on July 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Here he is, with the Thing.
posted by vrakatar at 6:11 PM on July 9, 2016

The thing with Cap's strength edging into the superhuman range, even though he's explicitly defined as being at the very upper limit of human strength, is that the records for powerlifting tend to edge upward over time, so there's no real agreement as to just what that is or should be. (Of course, some of that increase over time is probably due to performance-enhancing drugs, but as many people have pointed out over the years, Steve Rogers is really the #1 all-time PED champion.) Plus, there are stories where the real limits of human strength are ignored for Rule of Cool or Crowning Moment of Awesome or some other trope; Cap's came when he was chained to a massive natural gas tanker with massive steel chains that he shouldn't have been able to break, but He Just Doesn't Give Up Ever, you know. (Wolverine, who is also in that strength class, did something similar a few years before.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:16 PM on July 9, 2016 [2 favorites]