“The man wanted to frighten me and I decided he couldn’t do that.”
July 11, 2016 11:39 PM Subscribe
A takeaway shop owner has spoken about how he “took away the power” of an armed would-be robber by simply ignoring him. Ahmed said he had witnessed years of violence in Egypt before emigrating to New Zealand, and the quiet predictability of his life in Christchurch influenced his low-key reaction.
“My heart was beating quickly, I was scared, but I wasn’t going to show him that. That is why my nature is cool. I have been 20 years here and never seen any fighting. In Egypt it happens every day but in New Zealand I am calm because it is a safe country.”
I have patronised that place off and on for several years. The kebabs are excellent, as is the lentil/rice/noodle Egyptian thing whose name I can never remember. For some reason, it was Greeks who introduced meat in a pita to Christchurch, so irrespective of ethnic origin, people refer to the product as souvlaki.
The funny thing is when I read the headline in a local paper, I immediately visualised Ahmad, because he has a placid and calm manner and of course I see him from time to time. It was no surprise to find it actually was him.
The original shop was across the road but got flattened in the 2011 quakes. I expect that having been through that it would take a lot to register.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:19 AM on July 12, 2016 [57 favorites]
The funny thing is when I read the headline in a local paper, I immediately visualised Ahmad, because he has a placid and calm manner and of course I see him from time to time. It was no surprise to find it actually was him.
The original shop was across the road but got flattened in the 2011 quakes. I expect that having been through that it would take a lot to register.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:19 AM on July 12, 2016 [57 favorites]
This local story has more, including video of interview with Ahmad.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:22 AM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:22 AM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
I love this, it's like those videos where a gorilla walks through a basketball game and no one can see him. The kid who walks up to get his bag is also pretty ballsy.
posted by chavenet at 1:42 AM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 1:42 AM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
Just don't look!
Remaining calm is the key to most confrontations.
posted by asok at 2:40 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Remaining calm is the key to most confrontations.
posted by asok at 2:40 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
In other "refuse to respond as a terrified victim" news, the man who nearly had his head sawn off with a bread knife at Leytonstone tube station last year, American medical researcher Lyle Zimmerman, has given his first full-length interview. It's ... pretty remarkable:
posted by Sonny Jim at 3:37 AM on July 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
There are things we might expect of a man who nearly had his head cut off in the middle of a tube station. A man who was jumped from behind and kicked unconscious before his disturbed attacker pulled out a bread knife and began sawing at his neck while shouting: “This is for Syria, my Muslim brothers … all your blood will be spilled.”Simon Usborne, Leytonstone tube attack victim: ‘It’s bizarre how untraumatised I feel’, The Guardian (12 July 2016).
The psychological trauma might have been deeper than the cut, which required 19 stitches and left a lumpy scar. Anger might have damaged him more than the knife, which broke as it reached his windpipe. Fear might have outlasted the press coverage, which began on the front page of every national newspaper.
But none of this is true for Lyle Zimmerman, who was so determined not to be changed or defined by the attack in east London last December that he kept his identity secret for more than six months. At his flat a few miles away, the American talks about his recovery in full for the first time, and how the deaths of Jo Cox and 49 people in Orlando – as well as the deadly threat of climate change – have compelled him to speak out.
posted by Sonny Jim at 3:37 AM on July 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
Kia Kaha indeed!
posted by SpacemanRed at 4:09 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by SpacemanRed at 4:09 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
I find myself reminded of this guy. Maybe there's something to this.
posted by penduluum at 4:12 AM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by penduluum at 4:12 AM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
Long years ago I was walking alone in a wooded park. A guy came up and started walking next to me. I didn't know him, and wasn't too thrilled to have a stranger join me.
After a few steps, I noticed some movement on him from the corner of my eye. I thought to myself "Well, he's either unbuckled his belt and the long end of it is flopping in front of him, or he's got his dick hanging out."
I refused to look at him or comment on what he was doing, at all. We just walked along for a bit, me walking a little faster than usual to get back to where there were other people around, him walking beside me with his dick hanging out. We made some conversation, and he did say some weird things but I obstinately refused to act like anything was out of the ordinary.
He peeled off and went back into the bushes or on another path as we got closer to the beginning of the trail. I passed another woman sitting by the trail. She asked me if I'd seen a guy with his dick out. All I could say was "....Maybe?"
This was BC (Before Cellphones), so there was no easy way to call the cops from where I was. I just went home and thought what an odd thing had just happened.
I still think that my (relative) nonchalance about the whole thing kept the situation reasonably calm. On another day, at another time, with another guy, I might not have been so lucky.
posted by Archer25 at 4:58 AM on July 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
After a few steps, I noticed some movement on him from the corner of my eye. I thought to myself "Well, he's either unbuckled his belt and the long end of it is flopping in front of him, or he's got his dick hanging out."
I refused to look at him or comment on what he was doing, at all. We just walked along for a bit, me walking a little faster than usual to get back to where there were other people around, him walking beside me with his dick hanging out. We made some conversation, and he did say some weird things but I obstinately refused to act like anything was out of the ordinary.
He peeled off and went back into the bushes or on another path as we got closer to the beginning of the trail. I passed another woman sitting by the trail. She asked me if I'd seen a guy with his dick out. All I could say was "....Maybe?"
This was BC (Before Cellphones), so there was no easy way to call the cops from where I was. I just went home and thought what an odd thing had just happened.
I still think that my (relative) nonchalance about the whole thing kept the situation reasonably calm. On another day, at another time, with another guy, I might not have been so lucky.
posted by Archer25 at 4:58 AM on July 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
I once heard a good move for muggings (if your instincts are telling you that it wouldn't get you injured, of course) is to start earnestly and calmly saying odd things. "I have a wall in my yard that's 174 centimeters tall. That's only at the west end, of course." "I SAID, give me your wallet!" "Do you have any walls at your house? Do you love walls too?" I do not endorse this advice.
I would not have the courage to try. I might tell a mugger to "remember to give some of that to your church!" if I felt that I could get away with it.
posted by wires at 5:49 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
I would not have the courage to try. I might tell a mugger to "remember to give some of that to your church!" if I felt that I could get away with it.
posted by wires at 5:49 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
I wish I could hold this up to the fear-mongers. I wish I could show this to supporters of Homeland Security, the TSA, the NSA. I wish I could wave this in the face of people who are willing to sacrifice our liberties in the name of "security".
I wish I could make them see the parallels. I wish they weren't blind to the truth.
posted by ElDiabloConQueso at 5:50 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
I wish I could make them see the parallels. I wish they weren't blind to the truth.
posted by ElDiabloConQueso at 5:50 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Corr blimey. Suspected Hunt for the Wilderpeople was a documentary. Turns out it was! Love me the kiwis.
posted by taff at 6:10 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by taff at 6:10 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Courage is always inspirational. However, the usual result of something like this would be serious injury or death to the shopkeeper, which is why I am much more inspired when I hear about armed robbers being shot by their victims. I don't know if that's an option in New Zealand, and I'm not minimizing the shopkeeper's bravery--like I said, it's inspirational. But I wouldn't suggest it to my kids or grandkids, and I doubt I'd be courageous enough to do it myself.
I don't think I have the big-city mentality, though. Folks in big American cities (which I assume is a rough parallel to big cities in the rest of the world) seem to regard getting mugged the way I regard paying my income taxes--just part of the cost of doing business. Not allowing life to get you down is certainly a vital skill, and it sounds like this dude has it in spades.
Pretty cool that one of the first posts is from someone that knows the store owner.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 6:15 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't think I have the big-city mentality, though. Folks in big American cities (which I assume is a rough parallel to big cities in the rest of the world) seem to regard getting mugged the way I regard paying my income taxes--just part of the cost of doing business. Not allowing life to get you down is certainly a vital skill, and it sounds like this dude has it in spades.
Pretty cool that one of the first posts is from someone that knows the store owner.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 6:15 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
In other "refuse to respond as a terrified victim" news, the man who nearly had his head sawn off with a bread knife at Leytonstone tube station last year, American medical researcher Lyle Zimmerman, has given his first full-length interview. It's ... pretty remarkable.
Yup. Lyle sounds like quite the character.
Yup. Lyle sounds like quite the character.
The silence also allowed him to spend time with his girlfriend, who he says has suffered more than him. “She got driven across town in a car with the lights flashing and the siren on. She thought I was dead. And she gets to the hospital and not only am I not dead but the first thing I says is: ‘When you were looking into surgery for my snoring, I didn’t know you were going to hire a freelancer.’ She didn’t think it was funny at all.”posted by zamboni at 6:22 AM on July 12, 2016 [66 favorites]
Personally, I hate hearing about anyone getting shot.
I liked his rationale that if he was going to be shot (which was of course possible) then he wanted to be at some distance and therefore more likely to survive, rather than getting a bullet direct to the head or the heart.
It's my belief that the majority of people who brandish guns do so because they know that they are going to scare the shit out of people and that they're not going to have to pull the trigger. I mean, I'd poo my pants and cry if someone did this to me, there's no doubt; the fact that Said Ahmed was able to do what he did is brilliant, in my eyes.
posted by h00py at 6:30 AM on July 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
I liked his rationale that if he was going to be shot (which was of course possible) then he wanted to be at some distance and therefore more likely to survive, rather than getting a bullet direct to the head or the heart.
It's my belief that the majority of people who brandish guns do so because they know that they are going to scare the shit out of people and that they're not going to have to pull the trigger. I mean, I'd poo my pants and cry if someone did this to me, there's no doubt; the fact that Said Ahmed was able to do what he did is brilliant, in my eyes.
posted by h00py at 6:30 AM on July 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
Folks in big American cities (which I assume is a rough parallel to big cities in the rest of the world) seem to regard getting mugged the way I regard paying my income taxes--just part of the cost of doing business.
No, actually that's not normal, and you've just internalised a fucked up situation.
posted by pompomtom at 6:33 AM on July 12, 2016 [18 favorites]
No, actually that's not normal, and you've just internalised a fucked up situation.
posted by pompomtom at 6:33 AM on July 12, 2016 [18 favorites]
I was just watching this video, by the kinda dorky guy with the popped collar, about how the Army has had to use behavioral modification techniques to get soldiers to actually shoot at and kill the enemy. I guess it works in both directions. If you've been a victim of violence, had a gun pointed at you, many times before it loses its power to intimidate you. It must be a hell of hard school though.
posted by Bee'sWing at 6:40 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Bee'sWing at 6:40 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
I am much more inspired when I hear about armed robbers being shot by their victims
Vigilante fantasies are fun and all, but I hope most people would agree that would be a worse outcome than what happened here.
posted by ryanrs at 6:44 AM on July 12, 2016 [29 favorites]
Vigilante fantasies are fun and all, but I hope most people would agree that would be a worse outcome than what happened here.
posted by ryanrs at 6:44 AM on July 12, 2016 [29 favorites]
It's my belief that the majority of people who brandish guns do so because they know that they are going to scare the shit out of people and that they're not going to have to pull the trigger.
I don't know if it's actually true or not (and especially for New Zealand), but criminals believe that if they knock over a shop like this with an unloaded gun, then they'll be given leniency in sentencing since they clearly had no intention of using it, but just were trying to scare out the cash. So maybe this guy realized he was holding a useless piece of steel, that wasn't scaring anyone, and bailed.
posted by dis_integration at 6:46 AM on July 12, 2016
I don't know if it's actually true or not (and especially for New Zealand), but criminals believe that if they knock over a shop like this with an unloaded gun, then they'll be given leniency in sentencing since they clearly had no intention of using it, but just were trying to scare out the cash. So maybe this guy realized he was holding a useless piece of steel, that wasn't scaring anyone, and bailed.
posted by dis_integration at 6:46 AM on July 12, 2016
Leytonstone tube attack victim: ‘It’s bizarre how untraumatised I feel.’ Give it about 6 months for the PTSD to kick in.
posted by Young Kullervo at 6:51 AM on July 12, 2016
posted by Young Kullervo at 6:51 AM on July 12, 2016
Leytonstone tube attack victim: ‘It’s bizarre how untraumatised I feel.’ Give it about 6 months for the PTSD to kick in.
It's been nearly 8 months. I'm afraid he's going to disappoint you.
posted by tel3path at 7:08 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's been nearly 8 months. I'm afraid he's going to disappoint you.
posted by tel3path at 7:08 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Give it about 6 months for the PTSD to kick in.
There are plenty of people -- millions, even -- who experience major traumas and do not go on to have PTSD.
PTSD is by no means rare among trauma survivors, but likewise, it is nowhere near guaranteed.
posted by chimaera at 7:16 AM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]
There are plenty of people -- millions, even -- who experience major traumas and do not go on to have PTSD.
PTSD is by no means rare among trauma survivors, but likewise, it is nowhere near guaranteed.
posted by chimaera at 7:16 AM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]
I wish I could hold this up to the fear-mongers. I wish I could show this to supporters of Homeland Security, the TSA, the NSA.
Would you be so kind as to add the NRA next time.
posted by notreally at 7:32 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Would you be so kind as to add the NRA next time.
posted by notreally at 7:32 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Folks in big American cities (which I assume is a rough parallel to big cities in the rest of the world) seem to regard getting mugged the way I regard paying my income taxes--just part of the cost of doing business.
All else aside this is a dumb way to look at taxes
posted by beerperson at 7:34 AM on July 12, 2016 [18 favorites]
All else aside this is a dumb way to look at taxes
posted by beerperson at 7:34 AM on July 12, 2016 [18 favorites]
A few decades ago, I managed a small gas station with a little store inside. It was robbed at gunpoint a few times every year. I was robbed once during my shift.
I used to have a little talk for employees that basically said:
--Remain calm.
--Be polite.
--Give all cash and money, put it in a bag if they ask, give them food or beer or anything else they want.
--Don't make any sudden or quick movements.
--Do exactly what they tell you (put money in bag, lay on ground, raise your hands, etc.).
We were robbed quite a few times and no one was ever hurt.
Come to think of it, that's a variation of the same talk my father gave me, when I started driving, for dealing with police: Do all of the above and give license and registration when asked (instead of money in bag). And don't start reaching for things until they ask for it.
Gist: The store's shift money is not worth your life or an injury.
posted by CrowGoat at 7:43 AM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
I used to have a little talk for employees that basically said:
--Remain calm.
--Be polite.
--Give all cash and money, put it in a bag if they ask, give them food or beer or anything else they want.
--Don't make any sudden or quick movements.
--Do exactly what they tell you (put money in bag, lay on ground, raise your hands, etc.).
We were robbed quite a few times and no one was ever hurt.
Come to think of it, that's a variation of the same talk my father gave me, when I started driving, for dealing with police: Do all of the above and give license and registration when asked (instead of money in bag). And don't start reaching for things until they ask for it.
Gist: The store's shift money is not worth your life or an injury.
posted by CrowGoat at 7:43 AM on July 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
This is my plan if Trump is elected.
posted by Naberius at 7:48 AM on July 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Naberius at 7:48 AM on July 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
Same instructions for dealing with robbers and the cops, yet the cops are supposed to be the good guys. Makes you think, doesn't it?
posted by h00py at 7:49 AM on July 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by h00py at 7:49 AM on July 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
I've twice been home when somebody broke in, presumably to rip the place off. Both times I was naked but for a sheet, in one instance, and a towel in the other. Both times my donutshopgirl training kicked in before my fear response and I said, in a completely relaxed/bored way, "Can I help you?" Both times the person took off in confusion and fear and I went and took a shower in the one instance and back to sleep in the other. (I woke up about three minutes later and said, waaait a miiiiinute, and that one I remained freaked out for about a week, but the other one left no residuals.) I hope I always default to donutshop stance in these instances--it's not under conscious control, so I don't know that I will, but I sure hope so because it really works well.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:51 AM on July 12, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 7:51 AM on July 12, 2016 [16 favorites]
It's been nearly 8 months. I'm afraid he's going to disappoint you.
I never learned how to read.
posted by Young Kullervo at 8:11 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
I never learned how to read.
posted by Young Kullervo at 8:11 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Courage is always inspirational. However, the usual result of something like this would be serious injury or death to the shopkeeper, which is why I am much more inspired when I hear about armed robbers being shot by their victims.
What leads you to believe that this is true? Like, is there some kind of study that found this?
If I had to pull a guess out of my ass, I'd say pulling a gun when someone else already has a gun trained on you and is thus in a much better position to fire first would be far more likely to result in your own injury or death, because you've just given an armed man a reason to feel they have to shoot you.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:18 AM on July 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
What leads you to believe that this is true? Like, is there some kind of study that found this?
If I had to pull a guess out of my ass, I'd say pulling a gun when someone else already has a gun trained on you and is thus in a much better position to fire first would be far more likely to result in your own injury or death, because you've just given an armed man a reason to feel they have to shoot you.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:18 AM on July 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
I love how as the would-be robber leaves he gives the gun a disgusted little wave, as if to say "Fuck it, I tried."
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:29 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:29 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
When you were looking into surgery for my snoring, I didn’t know you were going to hire a freelancer
I found that desperately funny, does this make me a bad person or wat
If I had to pull a guess out of my ass, I'd say pulling a gun when someone else already has a gun trained on you and is thus in a much better position to fire first would be far more likely to result in your own injury or death, because you've just given an armed man a reason to feel they have to shoot you.
Based on my extremely rigorous study of LiveLeak videos and the dumber parts of YouTube, when robbers get shot it almost always appears they don't expect their marks to respond with anything other than fear and perfect compliance (they also almost always look like they forget they're perpetrating an armed robbery about 15 seconds in and start looking at the specials or something, not a solid plan)
posted by iffthen at 8:32 AM on July 12, 2016
I found that desperately funny, does this make me a bad person or wat
If I had to pull a guess out of my ass, I'd say pulling a gun when someone else already has a gun trained on you and is thus in a much better position to fire first would be far more likely to result in your own injury or death, because you've just given an armed man a reason to feel they have to shoot you.
Based on my extremely rigorous study of LiveLeak videos and the dumber parts of YouTube, when robbers get shot it almost always appears they don't expect their marks to respond with anything other than fear and perfect compliance (they also almost always look like they forget they're perpetrating an armed robbery about 15 seconds in and start looking at the specials or something, not a solid plan)
posted by iffthen at 8:32 AM on July 12, 2016
Come to think of it, that's a variation of the same talk my father gave me, when I started driving, for dealing with police: Do all of the above and give license and registration when asked (instead of money in bag). And don't start reaching for things until they ask for it.
These days, you'll have to remember to politely put the money in the bag for the cops, too.
posted by dis_integration at 8:55 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
These days, you'll have to remember to politely put the money in the bag for the cops, too.
posted by dis_integration at 8:55 AM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
This is my plan if Trump is elected.
Rob a takeaway shop??
Years ago, I was volunteering in an after-school project at a DC high school.
I was running late, and as I was rushing to the entrance a guy asked me for the time.
I guess I was supposed to stop and look at my watch, but I knew exactly what time it was and so I told him as I walked away.
He said "this is a stick-up", or words to that effect, at my back. I said "Oh!", but kept on walking, thinking 'am I going to get shot?'. Also thinking, 'I don't have time to get mugged. I'm late for class.'
Anyway, I don't know if that confused him, or he just didn't have a gun and didn't want to chase me. I feel lucky, and wouldn't do it again. If I hadn't been in such a hurry he would have gotten my money.
posted by MtDewd at 8:56 AM on July 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
Rob a takeaway shop??
Years ago, I was volunteering in an after-school project at a DC high school.
I was running late, and as I was rushing to the entrance a guy asked me for the time.
I guess I was supposed to stop and look at my watch, but I knew exactly what time it was and so I told him as I walked away.
He said "this is a stick-up", or words to that effect, at my back. I said "Oh!", but kept on walking, thinking 'am I going to get shot?'. Also thinking, 'I don't have time to get mugged. I'm late for class.'
Anyway, I don't know if that confused him, or he just didn't have a gun and didn't want to chase me. I feel lucky, and wouldn't do it again. If I hadn't been in such a hurry he would have gotten my money.
posted by MtDewd at 8:56 AM on July 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
I've lived in American metropolises for the last like 15 years and I would say this has not ever been the case?
I wouldn't say it was like paying taxes but NYC in the 70's and 80's it was not an uncommon experience to be mugged.
posted by Pembquist at 9:35 AM on July 12, 2016
I wouldn't say it was like paying taxes but NYC in the 70's and 80's it was not an uncommon experience to be mugged.
posted by Pembquist at 9:35 AM on July 12, 2016
When I was 15 or 16 years old I was walking to a friend's house with a shopping bag full of smaller bags of soup and plastic spoons and cups, and about 500 floppy disks with all my data in a backpack. The plan was to do a soup fueled all night PC build and data restore.
I took a shortcut to through the he glass factory's dump. A very nice walk between 10 meter tall piles of broken, glass sorted by color.
A man came out from between two glass hills and asked me what I had in the bag. He was holding a knife.
Usually I would have been scared and running for my life, but the sun was shining, the breeze was blowing, and I had been daydreaming that I was walking on an ocean, the mountains of glass like waves frozen in time. I was in a happy state of mind, full of joy and love.
I showed one of the soups to the guy, told him that he could have as much as he wanted, but that he couldn't eat it with a knife, he would need a spoon.
This is were I should have gotten stabbed for being a smart ass, but the man put the knife away, took the soup, a paper cup and a spoon, and sat down to eat.
It took me all weekend to really appreciate what had happened, and spent all week having anxiety attacks.
The third, fourth and fifth times I was mugged blocks from my house, all three times by cops. No surprises here, lay on the floor, let them frisk you and take your stuff, hope they just kick you in the kidneys once or twice and leave.
The second time I was mugged was in some town in Florida on new year's, and it was weird. A good looking woman walked to me, said happy new year, gave me a surprise French kiss, punched me in the gut and stole the 12 pack of beer I had just bought. That was the most traumatic one for me.
I have nothing else to add to the conversation.
posted by Doroteo Arango II at 10:28 AM on July 12, 2016 [14 favorites]
I took a shortcut to through the he glass factory's dump. A very nice walk between 10 meter tall piles of broken, glass sorted by color.
A man came out from between two glass hills and asked me what I had in the bag. He was holding a knife.
Usually I would have been scared and running for my life, but the sun was shining, the breeze was blowing, and I had been daydreaming that I was walking on an ocean, the mountains of glass like waves frozen in time. I was in a happy state of mind, full of joy and love.
I showed one of the soups to the guy, told him that he could have as much as he wanted, but that he couldn't eat it with a knife, he would need a spoon.
This is were I should have gotten stabbed for being a smart ass, but the man put the knife away, took the soup, a paper cup and a spoon, and sat down to eat.
It took me all weekend to really appreciate what had happened, and spent all week having anxiety attacks.
The third, fourth and fifth times I was mugged blocks from my house, all three times by cops. No surprises here, lay on the floor, let them frisk you and take your stuff, hope they just kick you in the kidneys once or twice and leave.
The second time I was mugged was in some town in Florida on new year's, and it was weird. A good looking woman walked to me, said happy new year, gave me a surprise French kiss, punched me in the gut and stole the 12 pack of beer I had just bought. That was the most traumatic one for me.
I have nothing else to add to the conversation.
posted by Doroteo Arango II at 10:28 AM on July 12, 2016 [14 favorites]
Two guys tried to mug me on a street in London once, back in the 90s.
I was walking on a narrow sidewalk, my friend, who had just arrived to visit for a week was walking behind me but had fallen behind so she was maybe 30 yards away. She was carrying a couple of hundred pounds in cash.
Ahead of me was a pub. All of a sudden its door swung open and a woman ran out screaming, darted across the road without even looking and disappeared down some smaller side street. When she was almost across the road two guys came out after her. They appeared mildly drunk, one was carrying a beer. But as they exited the pub they happened to see me coming towards them. The one with the beer stepped around me and stood right behind me. The other one came up face to face. I was sandwiched between the two with contact from both. I figured I could probably headbutt both in a single move and they'd have little room or time to pull knives or even just throw punches in their inebriated state.
The guy who was in my face yelled: "Give me your money!!!!". I don't know why but my gut instinct was that there was no real danger so I said in a normal voice: "I'm not giving you my money.". This proved to be the turning point because the guy thought about it for one second and then tried again: "Well, then give me 20 quid!!!". I couldn't help myself and chuckled and said: "I'm not giving you 20 quid either!". He tried again: "OK, then give me 5 quid!". I chuckled again and said: "Look, this isn't how this works. I'm not giving you any money. Just go away.". Both grumbled and then went back into the pub.
It was one of the more bizarre episodes in my life. Just glad my timing was lucky and they got distracted from going after that woman who had completely disappeared by the time it was over.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 11:43 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
I was walking on a narrow sidewalk, my friend, who had just arrived to visit for a week was walking behind me but had fallen behind so she was maybe 30 yards away. She was carrying a couple of hundred pounds in cash.
Ahead of me was a pub. All of a sudden its door swung open and a woman ran out screaming, darted across the road without even looking and disappeared down some smaller side street. When she was almost across the road two guys came out after her. They appeared mildly drunk, one was carrying a beer. But as they exited the pub they happened to see me coming towards them. The one with the beer stepped around me and stood right behind me. The other one came up face to face. I was sandwiched between the two with contact from both. I figured I could probably headbutt both in a single move and they'd have little room or time to pull knives or even just throw punches in their inebriated state.
The guy who was in my face yelled: "Give me your money!!!!". I don't know why but my gut instinct was that there was no real danger so I said in a normal voice: "I'm not giving you my money.". This proved to be the turning point because the guy thought about it for one second and then tried again: "Well, then give me 20 quid!!!". I couldn't help myself and chuckled and said: "I'm not giving you 20 quid either!". He tried again: "OK, then give me 5 quid!". I chuckled again and said: "Look, this isn't how this works. I'm not giving you any money. Just go away.". Both grumbled and then went back into the pub.
It was one of the more bizarre episodes in my life. Just glad my timing was lucky and they got distracted from going after that woman who had completely disappeared by the time it was over.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 11:43 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
All I have to add to the trauma discussion is that trauma is not an event, it is a response. The response may or may not happen. Or it can happen after events that most people would not think of as "traumatic". Doesn't matter! If your particular brain decides to encode this particular memory trace in that special trauma-memory way, and if your behavior starts getting shaped to avoid recall of that memory trace... that's trauma.
posted by PsychoTherapist at 11:54 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by PsychoTherapist at 11:54 AM on July 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
I wouldn't say it was like paying taxes but NYC in the 70's and 80's it was not an uncommon experience to be mugged.
I know it's hard to remember sometimes, but the 80s were almost 30 years ago now. "Everybody who lives in the city has a mugging story" is just not something that's true any more, and it hasn't been for a while.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:36 PM on July 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
I know it's hard to remember sometimes, but the 80s were almost 30 years ago now. "Everybody who lives in the city has a mugging story" is just not something that's true any more, and it hasn't been for a while.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:36 PM on July 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
Firearms are reasonably strictly controlled in New Zealand, especially handguns. It's simple to get a gun license, and long arms for hunting are easy to buy if you have one, but pistols are for collectors only. A pistol used in a robbery would have been stolen from a licensed owner, who would have had to store it securely (yes I see the irony there).
Gunpoint robberies in NZ are often with sawn-off shotguns, because it's easy to get a shotgun and then you cut it down for concealment. Retailers don't have guns in their shops, in fact no civilian has a gun for self-protection. Even police don't routinely carry guns, though they probably have one in the car. An offender with a gun would generate a call to a specialist police unit (the Armed Offenders Squad).
This story has to be read in that context.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 2:29 PM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]
Gunpoint robberies in NZ are often with sawn-off shotguns, because it's easy to get a shotgun and then you cut it down for concealment. Retailers don't have guns in their shops, in fact no civilian has a gun for self-protection. Even police don't routinely carry guns, though they probably have one in the car. An offender with a gun would generate a call to a specialist police unit (the Armed Offenders Squad).
This story has to be read in that context.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 2:29 PM on July 12, 2016 [8 favorites]
From the article Sonny Jim linked, what prompted Lyle Zimmerman to let go of his anonymity:
Four days after the guilty verdict, another young, disturbed man with a warped ideology murdered 49 people in an Orlando nightclub. “I suddenly realised I’d done this exactly backwards. There was the possibility of actual movement on gun control and I thought, maybe hearing an American accent saying, ‘I understand why people like guns but I feel much safer in the UK’ could help. Because I had this potentially horrific event that had trivial consequences for everybody but Mr Mire and his family, in part because of gun control.”posted by Lexica at 2:39 PM on July 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
Zimmerman has watched CCTV footage of his attack, and cannot see how he could have reached for a gun had he been armed. If Mire, passers-by or the police had been armed, the station floor would have been much bloodier that night. “In the US he’d be somebody’s martyr now, and I also feel like I would now feel much more traumatised if not dead. Instead, I’m OK, and he’s nobody’s martyr. I think that’s a great civil society outcome.”
i_am_joe's_spleen, I suspect that koshari/kusheri/however-you-spell-it is the food crack to which you refer?
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 5:26 PM on July 12, 2016
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 5:26 PM on July 12, 2016
I guess I was supposed to stop and look at my watch, but I knew exactly what time it was and so I told him as I walked away.
Hah! The local youths used to try this one on me in NW10 on the regular. "It's about half one, mate" used to confuse them enough that they almost never tried anything.
posted by Kreiger at 7:09 PM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Hah! The local youths used to try this one on me in NW10 on the regular. "It's about half one, mate" used to confuse them enough that they almost never tried anything.
posted by Kreiger at 7:09 PM on July 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
I still want to know what the guy waiting for his food was thinking. In the video you can see that he gives the would-be robber a wide berth and grabs his food and exits quickly. Did he just notice the mask or gun when he walked up to the counter, or was he watching the thing unfold? Was he calling the cops? Why didn't he leave?
posted by bendy at 11:09 PM on July 12, 2016
posted by bendy at 11:09 PM on July 12, 2016
He was probably following the lead of the person in charge of framing the interaction, which turned out to be the shopkeeper and not the robber in this case.
You know how adults tell kids to ignore bullying and it will go away? This never worked with other kids, but when I grew up it worked surprisingly well with people who were fixing to physically attack me. Completely ignoring them won't work though, I can't exactly describe what did.
And of course I never faced any threat as extreme as a gun pointed at me, or a knife, so I don't want to overstate my case here. And each situation is different, etc.
One example would be the gang of Youths (TM) who tried to grab me on the way out of a tube station. I pulled myself free (they didn't have a strong grip) and just kept walking, barging through them as if they weren't there. I registered mild annoyance, but nothing else. If they'd been trying at all they would've succeeded, but I don't think they really knew what they wanted out of the interaction, and they didn't know what to make of me.
posted by tel3path at 3:14 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
You know how adults tell kids to ignore bullying and it will go away? This never worked with other kids, but when I grew up it worked surprisingly well with people who were fixing to physically attack me. Completely ignoring them won't work though, I can't exactly describe what did.
And of course I never faced any threat as extreme as a gun pointed at me, or a knife, so I don't want to overstate my case here. And each situation is different, etc.
One example would be the gang of Youths (TM) who tried to grab me on the way out of a tube station. I pulled myself free (they didn't have a strong grip) and just kept walking, barging through them as if they weren't there. I registered mild annoyance, but nothing else. If they'd been trying at all they would've succeeded, but I don't think they really knew what they wanted out of the interaction, and they didn't know what to make of me.
posted by tel3path at 3:14 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Native Torontonian in the north end of Halifax NS, walking to a friend's place with a two-four on my shoulder. Night. A fellow matches my pace, walking uncomfortably close beside me. Because of the box on my shoulder it's difficult to get a good look at buddy, so I keep my eyes ahead. "You're going to want to give me that beer," he suggests.
"I'm sorry? You want a beer?"
"I'll take it all."
"Oh, sure," I chuckle, still walking. Strange sense of humour, I think. Halifax, eh?
Buddy persists. After slackening his pace for a beat he scurries to catch up. "I'm serious. I'll take the case. You don't want trouble from me."
Because I have arrived at the foot of the stairs to my friend's flat I pause to shift the two-four to my opposite shoulder, for the first time visually appraising my beer-begging friend. He is brandishing a short kitchen knife. "Come on! Let's go!" he snaps.
It finally dawns on me that he's actually trying to be some sort of criminal. Twenty years living in the biggest city in the country, nothing like this has ever happened to me. Now here I am in one of Canada's friendliest small cities, and dude is acting like he's on a TV show. It was all so baffling I forgot to be frightened.
"Is this a mugging?" I ask him, incredulous.
"Just give me the case, right now! Right now!"
I look at him and shift the box on my shoulder again, weighing my options, appreciating as he does not that I am steps away from safety. "No thank you."
"What?"
"I'd really rather not."
"I don't give a shit you rather not. Do you want trouble? You want this?" He gesticulates with the knife. "I'll mess you up."
Small, tight smile. "Have a nice night."
He blinks, then gapes.
I calmly walk up the stairs and into the building. He stands there on the sidewalk for a moment with his knife, then turns and walks away. "The fuck?" he says in exasperation to no one in particular.
posted by Construction Concern at 5:04 AM on July 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
"I'm sorry? You want a beer?"
"I'll take it all."
"Oh, sure," I chuckle, still walking. Strange sense of humour, I think. Halifax, eh?
Buddy persists. After slackening his pace for a beat he scurries to catch up. "I'm serious. I'll take the case. You don't want trouble from me."
Because I have arrived at the foot of the stairs to my friend's flat I pause to shift the two-four to my opposite shoulder, for the first time visually appraising my beer-begging friend. He is brandishing a short kitchen knife. "Come on! Let's go!" he snaps.
It finally dawns on me that he's actually trying to be some sort of criminal. Twenty years living in the biggest city in the country, nothing like this has ever happened to me. Now here I am in one of Canada's friendliest small cities, and dude is acting like he's on a TV show. It was all so baffling I forgot to be frightened.
"Is this a mugging?" I ask him, incredulous.
"Just give me the case, right now! Right now!"
I look at him and shift the box on my shoulder again, weighing my options, appreciating as he does not that I am steps away from safety. "No thank you."
"What?"
"I'd really rather not."
"I don't give a shit you rather not. Do you want trouble? You want this?" He gesticulates with the knife. "I'll mess you up."
Small, tight smile. "Have a nice night."
He blinks, then gapes.
I calmly walk up the stairs and into the building. He stands there on the sidewalk for a moment with his knife, then turns and walks away. "The fuck?" he says in exasperation to no one in particular.
posted by Construction Concern at 5:04 AM on July 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
Living in a country crippled by crime, I can assure you that ignoring an attacker in South Africa is a sure way to be shot. Here, you do as they say, avoid eye contact and keep your hands where they can see them. The FIRST thing you should do is assuring the attacker that you are completely non-threatening. It has saved my life twice. The first time I had a gun to my head, I kept my eyes down and my hands in front of me. The second time it was (with my kids and husband) a home invasion. I tried to reason with them at first, especially when they had the gun to my youngest son's (7) head and beating my older son (12) , but after a few hard slaps across the face, I realised that looking down, answering them demurely and acting non threatening is what calmed them down. The overwhelming paralyzing thought that they are beating your son and you can do nothing and knowing that the BEST for all is NOT to retaliate is a complete mind changer. It worked. (Unfortunately I realise it doesn't always) DO NOT ever challenge an attacker, hijacker or thief in South Africa. The first thing you must know is that these people DO NOT value life. Stay still, give them what they want because YOU value life.
posted by ergoguru at 7:02 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ergoguru at 7:02 AM on July 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
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I think the fact that he had a "lazy eye" helped him a bit there, though.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 11:53 PM on July 11, 2016 [11 favorites]