"What I do is not up to you."
July 23, 2016 4:34 PM Subscribe
Too much blatant CGI for my taste, but I was pleased they didn't make her fight in high heels.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:46 PM on July 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:46 PM on July 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ooh! I am not really a superhero person these days, but I think this looks exceptionally interesting. The color scheme, how incredibly kick-ass WW is....yup, will go see.
posted by xingcat at 4:50 PM on July 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by xingcat at 4:50 PM on July 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
Her boots are 2.5inch wedges, which is better than high heels, but still not combat boots.
posted by taterpie at 4:50 PM on July 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by taterpie at 4:50 PM on July 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
Wonder Woman was the only bright spot in Batman v Superman; her obvious joy and glee in the fight scene was almost good enough to make up for the rest of the damned film. I'm looking forward to this one.
posted by ChrisR at 4:56 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by ChrisR at 4:56 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Her boots are 2.5inch wedges, which is better than high heels, but still not combat boots.
She's super strong, immortal warrior goddess, she can wear whatever the fuck she wants.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:00 PM on July 23, 2016 [39 favorites]
She's super strong, immortal warrior goddess, she can wear whatever the fuck she wants.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:00 PM on July 23, 2016 [39 favorites]
In COLOR. (!)
I'm pretty meh on the Murderverse but it looks like they are going to the right places.
posted by Artw at 5:02 PM on July 23, 2016
I'm pretty meh on the Murderverse but it looks like they are going to the right places.
posted by Artw at 5:02 PM on July 23, 2016
I am excited for Etta Candy, too. I am glad that they kept her Golden Age physique. Those comics with the Holliday Girls were my favorite as a kid, cause the ladies got to do all the bad guy punching.
posted by Gyre,Gimble,Wabe, Esq. at 5:02 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Gyre,Gimble,Wabe, Esq. at 5:02 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm stunned by how good this looks. It does not seem influenced at all by any Marvel or DC film to date. It doesn't really seem influenced by anything. It seems very new.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:03 PM on July 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:03 PM on July 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
She's super strong, immortal warrior goddess, she can wear whatever the fuck she wants.
Yeah, there's always a 'reason' for women to do something a bit more sexily.
posted by taterpie at 5:03 PM on July 23, 2016 [80 favorites]
Yeah, there's always a 'reason' for women to do something a bit more sexily.
posted by taterpie at 5:03 PM on July 23, 2016 [80 favorites]
Too much blatant CGI for my taste
Whenever I hear someone say something like this, I always wonder whether the problem is that they think computers are cursed or that they don't know that the parts of the movie that aren't computer generated also aren't real.
She's super strong, immortal warrior goddess, she can wear whatever the fuck she wants.
"No no, you don't understand, the character CHOSE to wear the impractical sexy things for the purpose of exciting the men in the audience. That's basically feminism!"
On the trailer: It's probably not a good sign that they couldn't even get thirty seconds into the trailer before the writing got completely incoherent. How is "Do I not look like one?" a response to "You're a man."? Seriously, try to imagine the string of thoughts that Chris Pine's character has to have in order for that sentence to be the thing he says there. Sketch that logic out. No, don't worry about it, I'll save you the time: It doesn't make any sense. That is incredibly dumb writing. And they opened with it.
posted by IAmUnaware at 5:03 PM on July 23, 2016 [22 favorites]
Whenever I hear someone say something like this, I always wonder whether the problem is that they think computers are cursed or that they don't know that the parts of the movie that aren't computer generated also aren't real.
She's super strong, immortal warrior goddess, she can wear whatever the fuck she wants.
"No no, you don't understand, the character CHOSE to wear the impractical sexy things for the purpose of exciting the men in the audience. That's basically feminism!"
On the trailer: It's probably not a good sign that they couldn't even get thirty seconds into the trailer before the writing got completely incoherent. How is "Do I not look like one?" a response to "You're a man."? Seriously, try to imagine the string of thoughts that Chris Pine's character has to have in order for that sentence to be the thing he says there. Sketch that logic out. No, don't worry about it, I'll save you the time: It doesn't make any sense. That is incredibly dumb writing. And they opened with it.
posted by IAmUnaware at 5:03 PM on July 23, 2016 [22 favorites]
OMG this looks amazing. Etta Candy looks incredible. I love the line about 'what I do is not up to you'.
posted by HypotheticalWoman at 5:04 PM on July 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by HypotheticalWoman at 5:04 PM on July 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
When are we getting our Gisele Yashar / Han Seoul-Oh international adventures movie, I want to know.
posted by Artw at 5:09 PM on July 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:09 PM on July 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
I do wish the Themyscirans spoke their own language and didn't understand English (perhaps Diana could communicate at first by binding their wrists together with the lasso as they talk). Also, Pine seems too modern.
posted by Auden at 5:13 PM on July 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Auden at 5:13 PM on July 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah, there's always a 'reason' for women to do something a bit more sexily.
It's odd that there's a seemingly pretty decent WW movie coming down the pike and some people want to argue about whether her shoes are right. Me, I'm happy they're not high heels and look pretty much like something a warrior goddess might wear into combat. YMMV.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:13 PM on July 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
It's odd that there's a seemingly pretty decent WW movie coming down the pike and some people want to argue about whether her shoes are right. Me, I'm happy they're not high heels and look pretty much like something a warrior goddess might wear into combat. YMMV.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:13 PM on July 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
I always wonder whether the problem is that they think computers are cursed or that they don't know that the parts of the movie that aren't computer generated also aren't real.
I don't think people are critical of CGI qua CGI but when it is has an unreal quality that practical effects lack. Look at Fury Road; it had a realness that most superhero movies lack despite containing tons of over the top action. Hell, it had an electric guitar flamethrower.
Practical effects have a weight about them that CGI (thus far) lacks when it makes up most of a scene. When done well, it is seamless. But it is hard to do that when the entire set and props and characters are mostly done in CGI.
posted by Justinian at 5:14 PM on July 23, 2016 [25 favorites]
I don't think people are critical of CGI qua CGI but when it is has an unreal quality that practical effects lack. Look at Fury Road; it had a realness that most superhero movies lack despite containing tons of over the top action. Hell, it had an electric guitar flamethrower.
Practical effects have a weight about them that CGI (thus far) lacks when it makes up most of a scene. When done well, it is seamless. But it is hard to do that when the entire set and props and characters are mostly done in CGI.
posted by Justinian at 5:14 PM on July 23, 2016 [25 favorites]
Also the WW theme gets my blood pumping. It was the best part of B v S.
I kind of liked the Ultimate edition of B v S but I can't imagine what the movie must have been like with 30 minutes less plot. It must have been more or less a nonstop riot of CGI action scenes. Which is not what I'm looking for and is why, for example, the first Avengers film is so much better than Age of Ultron.
Just because your superheroes can fly and punch buildings doesn't mean they should spend most of the movie flying and punching through buildings. TALKING. MORE TALKING.
posted by Justinian at 5:15 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
I kind of liked the Ultimate edition of B v S but I can't imagine what the movie must have been like with 30 minutes less plot. It must have been more or less a nonstop riot of CGI action scenes. Which is not what I'm looking for and is why, for example, the first Avengers film is so much better than Age of Ultron.
Just because your superheroes can fly and punch buildings doesn't mean they should spend most of the movie flying and punching through buildings. TALKING. MORE TALKING.
posted by Justinian at 5:15 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Brandon: because goddess or not, she's some of the only female representation out there, so her servicing the male gaze is always going to sting. You know that.
I'm just glad no one decided goddesses would wear thong bikinis because they can!
posted by taterpie at 5:17 PM on July 23, 2016 [40 favorites]
I'm just glad no one decided goddesses would wear thong bikinis because they can!
posted by taterpie at 5:17 PM on July 23, 2016 [40 favorites]
Diana Prince, Warrior Princess of the Amazons, Queen of my Heart. I am so ready for you and your 2.5" wedge heeled boots, your Golden Lasso of Truth, your Bracelets of Submission, and whatever CGI Glory they bestow upon you. "Woo! Woo!"
posted by pjsky at 5:17 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by pjsky at 5:17 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Here's the Justice League footage, also featuring her, for those what wants it.
posted by taterpie at 5:19 PM on July 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by taterpie at 5:19 PM on July 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
When I was younger the Golden Lasso and the Bracelets of Submission made me feel all funny inside. It wasn't until I was older that I realized that was the point. It's not even subtle.
posted by Justinian at 5:19 PM on July 23, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 5:19 PM on July 23, 2016 [31 favorites]
Well, I'm just glad to FINALLY see a movie where Fokker Eindeckers get some screen time and it's not just Dr.I's everywhere.
posted by Hey Dean Yeager! at 5:22 PM on July 23, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by Hey Dean Yeager! at 5:22 PM on July 23, 2016 [15 favorites]
She's super strong, immortal warrior goddess, she can wear whatever the fuck she the dude drawing her wants
posted by straight at 5:24 PM on July 23, 2016 [29 favorites]
posted by straight at 5:24 PM on July 23, 2016 [29 favorites]
Lucy Davis!!! Yay yay yay!!
posted by cooker girl at 5:24 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 5:24 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Switching the setting to WWI is a pretty cool choice, and I like that Wonder Woman seems to be filling a similar role to Captain America in the MCU: Character from the Golden Age who wears a flag and fights with a round shield, and has returned to us to lead a new generation of heroes.
posted by EatTheWeek at 5:30 PM on July 23, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by EatTheWeek at 5:30 PM on July 23, 2016 [13 favorites]
I don't think they even have a 2.5 inch heel. You get a good view at 1:57, I ran it at 0.25 speed and froze it.
They do have a heel but it doesn't seem like any more or less heel than I've seen on male combat boots, especially since they look like the sole is a half inch thick.
The rest of the outfit is pretty clearly inspired by a Greek hoplite but I think the skirt is a little shorter than it should be to actually protect anything but if I'm being charitable I suppose the armor doesn't really do anything for her given her super powers so she likes it shorter where it is more out of the way while she leaps around and it's more about having durable clothing that can keep up with her.
If I'm being charitable.
posted by VTX at 5:41 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
They do have a heel but it doesn't seem like any more or less heel than I've seen on male combat boots, especially since they look like the sole is a half inch thick.
The rest of the outfit is pretty clearly inspired by a Greek hoplite but I think the skirt is a little shorter than it should be to actually protect anything but if I'm being charitable I suppose the armor doesn't really do anything for her given her super powers so she likes it shorter where it is more out of the way while she leaps around and it's more about having durable clothing that can keep up with her.
If I'm being charitable.
posted by VTX at 5:41 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's odd that there's a seemingly pretty decent WW movie coming down the pike and some people want to argue about whether her shoes are right.
The poster they released earlier this week had her face in darkness but her chest brightly lit. It was a good example of how often female characters are reduced to faceless bodies with boonbs. I think it's totally reasonable to be at least a little suspicious about how they're going about things.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:42 PM on July 23, 2016 [41 favorites]
The poster they released earlier this week had her face in darkness but her chest brightly lit. It was a good example of how often female characters are reduced to faceless bodies with boonbs. I think it's totally reasonable to be at least a little suspicious about how they're going about things.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:42 PM on July 23, 2016 [41 favorites]
Please tell me that both Lynda Carter and Lyle Waggoner get cameos, somehow.
posted by jonmc at 5:42 PM on July 23, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by jonmc at 5:42 PM on July 23, 2016 [19 favorites]
I don't think people are critical of CGI qua CGI but when it is has an unreal quality that practical effects lack. Look at Fury Road; it had a realness that most superhero movies lack despite containing tons of over the top action.
I agree in principle, but there was a whole bunch of cgi in Fury Road. It was just well-done cgi and they did a great job of deciding when to use it and when to use practical stuff.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:43 PM on July 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
I agree in principle, but there was a whole bunch of cgi in Fury Road. It was just well-done cgi and they did a great job of deciding when to use it and when to use practical stuff.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:43 PM on July 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
> Just because your superheroes can fly and punch buildings doesn't mean they should spend most of the movie flying and punching through buildings. TALKING. MORE TALKING.
Most of the superhero movies I watch, I spend most of them thinking to myself and sometimes muttering aloud, "Shut up, shut up, shut up..." The problem isn't more or less talking. The problem is absolute shit for scripted dialogs. What made the first Avengers movie such a huge treat was that people spoke with wit in rapid-fire exchanges that helped further the plot and develop the characters. For most other movies, dialog is budget-saving padding between the expensive-to-produce stuff and mostly furthers the plot because the director spent too much time planning the big sequences without bothering to give the SFX a reason to exist in the story.
posted by ardgedee at 5:45 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Most of the superhero movies I watch, I spend most of them thinking to myself and sometimes muttering aloud, "Shut up, shut up, shut up..." The problem isn't more or less talking. The problem is absolute shit for scripted dialogs. What made the first Avengers movie such a huge treat was that people spoke with wit in rapid-fire exchanges that helped further the plot and develop the characters. For most other movies, dialog is budget-saving padding between the expensive-to-produce stuff and mostly furthers the plot because the director spent too much time planning the big sequences without bothering to give the SFX a reason to exist in the story.
posted by ardgedee at 5:45 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Bad CGI comes off as the director saying, "Look at all this cool eye candy! It would have been impossible to do this with out CGI. COMPUTERS ARE MAGICAL!"
If I notice your CGI looking like CGI, you're doing it wrong.
posted by VTX at 5:49 PM on July 23, 2016 [13 favorites]
If I notice your CGI looking like CGI, you're doing it wrong.
posted by VTX at 5:49 PM on July 23, 2016 [13 favorites]
Dem wedges - but that's the last I'll digress about that.
I'm genuinely excited about the movie, I'm glad it had a woman director. I wish it had any women in the writing credits. Etta Candy looks fabulous.
posted by taterpie at 5:58 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm genuinely excited about the movie, I'm glad it had a woman director. I wish it had any women in the writing credits. Etta Candy looks fabulous.
posted by taterpie at 5:58 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
They do have a heel but it doesn't seem like any more or less heel than I've seen on male combat boots, especially since they look like the sole is a half inch thick.
That looks like thick sole to me, with a slight heel - no different to combat boots or dress shoes a man might wear. This argument is pointless.
posted by crossoverman at 6:02 PM on July 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
That looks like thick sole to me, with a slight heel - no different to combat boots or dress shoes a man might wear. This argument is pointless.
posted by crossoverman at 6:02 PM on July 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Okay, I might be in. But even after the Justice League teaser, I am all YAY JASON MOMOA and BOO THAT IS NOT MY BARRY ALLEN.*
*listen i know have dumb feels but they are there okay
posted by Kitteh at 6:06 PM on July 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
*listen i know have dumb feels but they are there okay
posted by Kitteh at 6:06 PM on July 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
Oh, that gif that tater pie did makes them look slightly different to this shot that I was referencing.
posted by crossoverman at 6:07 PM on July 23, 2016
posted by crossoverman at 6:07 PM on July 23, 2016
Also, I know Chris Pine is riding high on the "I am the new Captain Kirk" thing, but tbh, I always forget he exists outside of that. I'm like, "Oh yes, he is in fact an actor that for some reason does not register in a singularly individual way. He is in things. I will not remember his face after three minutes."
posted by Kitteh at 6:12 PM on July 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 6:12 PM on July 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
If I notice your CGI looking like CGI, you're doing it wrong.
Trailers usually have unfinished CGI, so I wouldn't judge things too deeply at this point.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:12 PM on July 23, 2016
don't screw this up don't screw this up don't screw this up
(yes I'm looking at YOU, you bastards what messed with Batgirl)
posted by Mary Ellen Carter at 6:12 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
(yes I'm looking at YOU, you bastards what messed with Batgirl)
posted by Mary Ellen Carter at 6:12 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Wait...Wonder Woman set in WWI?
THIS IS RELEVANT TO MY INTERESTS!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:23 PM on July 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
THIS IS RELEVANT TO MY INTERESTS!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:23 PM on July 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
The heavy-handed color correction for all the recent DC movies leave me cold, oh wait sorry that's the name of the preset they use . . .
posted by jeremias at 6:28 PM on July 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jeremias at 6:28 PM on July 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also, I think Chris Pine does look very accurate to the period, but also in a sort of Captain Flashheart kind of way, which also works, and I think might be kind of the point.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:29 PM on July 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:29 PM on July 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
"Where I'm from, that's called 'slavery'."
posted by Slothrup at 6:29 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Slothrup at 6:29 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Where I'm from, that's called 'slavery'."
Kirk just said that on MeTv!
posted by vrakatar at 6:38 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Kirk just said that on MeTv!
posted by vrakatar at 6:38 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I don't go to cons, but I badly want to cosplay as Etta Candy now.
posted by pxe2000 at 6:43 PM on July 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 6:43 PM on July 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Maybe she changes shoes? It's pretty clear she has a wedge in the taterpie gif, but the one crossoverman linked look like thick-soled boots to me, too. Either that or the actress/stuntwoman used boots instead of wedges to be able to pull off some of the fight scenes, in which case that says everything about the usefulness of wedges right there.
I love the idea of a Wonder Woman movie, but given the disaster that is the New DC Movie Revenue Stream so far I am skeptical.
As usual for these movies, I wish she was more muscular. One of the many wonderful things about Deadpool was employing Gina Carano, a woman with the actual muscles that come from fighting and working out, to play Angel Dust. She looked like a badass. I wish more superheroines looked like badasses.
posted by Anonymous at 6:44 PM on July 23, 2016
I love the idea of a Wonder Woman movie, but given the disaster that is the New DC Movie Revenue Stream so far I am skeptical.
As usual for these movies, I wish she was more muscular. One of the many wonderful things about Deadpool was employing Gina Carano, a woman with the actual muscles that come from fighting and working out, to play Angel Dust. She looked like a badass. I wish more superheroines looked like badasses.
posted by Anonymous at 6:44 PM on July 23, 2016
Am very pro putting more Gina Carano in things, whatever else.
posted by Artw at 6:47 PM on July 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:47 PM on July 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
Look at Fury Road; it had a realness that most superhero movies lack despite containing tons of over the top action.
Yeah, so, funny story:
Yeah, so, funny story:
There is so much CG work in this movie, it’s hard to fathom. Miller succeeds at what I would have considered an impossible task. He made a movie FOR people who worship practical effects. . .and he did it all with CGI. And the audience is going INSANE for the results. They believe. He told them “It’s all real,” he lied to them, and they believed it.posted by mhoye at 6:47 PM on July 23, 2016 [36 favorites]
He knew he could lie to them, because he knew what his audience wants. They want to know; when that truck goes flying up in the air, it’s real. When that truck smashed into that rock, it’s real.
Well, that part is. They really built all those trucks, and they really launched them into the air and they really smashed them into each other. But that’s only about 30%-40% of the film. The launching and smashing. The rest is driving. And almost none of that is real.
The vehicles you see in the movie are almost never moving. They're sitting still, propped up on what are essentially airbags. The airbags allow the crew to bounce the trucks around, they are so severely agitated, they can literally throw people off the truck with the force. But the truck is always sitting in one place.
You never notice it because they matted moving backgrounds in and they used CGI to make the wheels move. They used CGI to make the wheels move. 60% of the movie, those wheels weren't moving on the set, that's CGI. [...]
There are scenes where Charlize Theron is talking, and those are her lips moving, but they're her lips from a different shot, a pickup months later, from a different angle and a different distance, matted together seamlessly using CGI.
Her musical theme could get me into a theatre to see just about anything. I never want it to end!
posted by blue_beetle at 6:49 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by blue_beetle at 6:49 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Kickass ladies kickin' ass, not for a man, just because it's what they do.
I'm talking about Ghostbusters of course, but if Wonder Woman does it too, I'm happy.
posted by emjaybee at 6:51 PM on July 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm talking about Ghostbusters of course, but if Wonder Woman does it too, I'm happy.
posted by emjaybee at 6:51 PM on July 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Yeah, Blue Beetle ; that was my favorite part of Batman v. Superman. That eerie, driving motif that says SOMETHIN MOAR IS COMIN THIS WAY AND YOU BEDDA BE REDDY FOR HER. It's awesome.
I can't wait til my daughter's old enough to see this movie.
posted by armoir from antproof case at 6:52 PM on July 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I can't wait til my daughter's old enough to see this movie.
posted by armoir from antproof case at 6:52 PM on July 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
So where are Green Lantern and Martian Manhunter?
Even assuming a return of Clark the current team seems a bit light for deal with Mongol or Darkseid.
posted by vuron at 7:02 PM on July 23, 2016
Even assuming a return of Clark the current team seems a bit light for deal with Mongol or Darkseid.
posted by vuron at 7:02 PM on July 23, 2016
Nthing that Gal's WW as the best part of BvS. First the uncharacteristically light (for DC) touch of her introduction; "Is she with you?" "I thought she was with you." Then "I've killed things from other worlds before," and then every time the big bad nearly kicks her ass she gets up with a look of total respect and satisfaction like I HAVEN'T HAD A CHALLENGE THIS GOOD IN FOREVER. And then charging back in even stronger, and Gal totally sold it.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:06 PM on July 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:06 PM on July 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
Has anyone ever added up all the Nazis killed by super heroes? Were there ever that many?
posted by boilermonster at 7:15 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by boilermonster at 7:15 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Honestly I'll go see this even with it's problematic elements because this summer of manchildren throwing fits about Gal as WW and OMG WOMEN Ghostbuster has basically got me to the point where I'm willing to watch things that I might otherwise skip just to spite the hateful little manbabies.
posted by vuron at 7:15 PM on July 23, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by vuron at 7:15 PM on July 23, 2016 [27 favorites]
I wish more superheroines looked like badasses.
I feel the same way, Gina Carano and all (everyone has seen Haywire right?). I tell myself that I'll hold my tongue until there are more good female characters. But then I think it's good to show what a women's body looks like when they train to punch people in the face, somewhat more realistic (or at least diverse) body types.
But, as a penis have-r, I'll mostly just stay out of it.
I will, however, level this criticism at male actors who play action heroes... Jim Caviezel.
posted by VTX at 7:21 PM on July 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
I feel the same way, Gina Carano and all (everyone has seen Haywire right?). I tell myself that I'll hold my tongue until there are more good female characters. But then I think it's good to show what a women's body looks like when they train to punch people in the face, somewhat more realistic (or at least diverse) body types.
But, as a penis have-r, I'll mostly just stay out of it.
I will, however, level this criticism at male actors who play action heroes... Jim Caviezel.
posted by VTX at 7:21 PM on July 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Wait! Where's the Invisible Jet? I didn't see it anywhere.
posted by sexyrobot at 7:25 PM on July 23, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by sexyrobot at 7:25 PM on July 23, 2016 [34 favorites]
As usual for these movies, I wish she was more muscular. One of the many wonderful things about Deadpool was employing Gina Carano, a woman with the actual muscles that come from fighting and working out...
Before she became an actor, Gal Gadot was an IDF combat trainer.
posted by alexoscar at 7:36 PM on July 23, 2016 [25 favorites]
Before she became an actor, Gal Gadot was an IDF combat trainer.
posted by alexoscar at 7:36 PM on July 23, 2016 [25 favorites]
P.S. I'm reminded of overhearing someone complain about how the heavyweight champ in Creed, played by real-life boxer Tony Bellew, looked unconvincing and out-of-shape.
posted by alexoscar at 7:51 PM on July 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by alexoscar at 7:51 PM on July 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
So where are Green Lantern and Martian Manhunter?
J'onn gets no love, it's freaking tragic.
The only Green Lantern I want to see is John Stewart.
posted by praemunire at 7:51 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
J'onn gets no love, it's freaking tragic.
The only Green Lantern I want to see is John Stewart.
posted by praemunire at 7:51 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
I really wish Steve Trevor had been left the hell out of this movie. He's an utter nonentity.
I'm also curious to see why I'm supposed to be thrilled to watch WW take on five German guys who cannot possibly hurt her no matter what they do. WW can go toe-to-toe with Superman; watching her fight regular soldiers is as exciting and suspenseful as watching a grown man roundhouse-kick a toddler.
All quibbling aside, there are bits of this that look absolutely note-perfect. I really hope it's good and it goes over well. Superman and Batman are carrying around the baggage of so many bad movies at this point that they're hard to watch no matter what they do, and the DC 'cinematic universe' is clearly on shaky footing at this point. It'd be nice if it fell to Wonder Woman to swoop in and save the day.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:10 PM on July 23, 2016
I'm also curious to see why I'm supposed to be thrilled to watch WW take on five German guys who cannot possibly hurt her no matter what they do. WW can go toe-to-toe with Superman; watching her fight regular soldiers is as exciting and suspenseful as watching a grown man roundhouse-kick a toddler.
All quibbling aside, there are bits of this that look absolutely note-perfect. I really hope it's good and it goes over well. Superman and Batman are carrying around the baggage of so many bad movies at this point that they're hard to watch no matter what they do, and the DC 'cinematic universe' is clearly on shaky footing at this point. It'd be nice if it fell to Wonder Woman to swoop in and save the day.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:10 PM on July 23, 2016
I'm just happy they aren't retconning her origins to, like, primitive genetic engineering by the shadowy corporation "Zeno Executive US" or something like that (later revealed to be owned by Lex Luthor's grandfather).
I'm also curious to see why I'm supposed to be thrilled to watch WW take on five German guys who cannot possibly hurt her no matter what they do. WW can go toe-to-toe with Superman; watching her fight regular soldiers is as exciting and suspenseful as watching a grown man roundhouse-kick a toddler.
I guess that part isn't for you but rather for the many potential viewers who only vaguely know who she is and wouldn't necessarily expect her to be able to win WWI single-handed. All superheroes establish badassery with stuff like that, after all.
posted by No-sword at 8:14 PM on July 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm also curious to see why I'm supposed to be thrilled to watch WW take on five German guys who cannot possibly hurt her no matter what they do. WW can go toe-to-toe with Superman; watching her fight regular soldiers is as exciting and suspenseful as watching a grown man roundhouse-kick a toddler.
I guess that part isn't for you but rather for the many potential viewers who only vaguely know who she is and wouldn't necessarily expect her to be able to win WWI single-handed. All superheroes establish badassery with stuff like that, after all.
posted by No-sword at 8:14 PM on July 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
And yes, if a non-awful Wonder Woman became DC's flagship character that would be incredible.
posted by No-sword at 8:16 PM on July 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by No-sword at 8:16 PM on July 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
watching her fight regular soldiers is as exciting and suspenseful as watching a grown man roundhouse-kick a toddler
If you caught me after the right flight, I'll admit I'd pay to watch this movie.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:18 PM on July 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
If you caught me after the right flight, I'll admit I'd pay to watch this movie.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:18 PM on July 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
Mod note: Couple comments removed. ELF Radio, you're welcome to dislike the new Ghostbusters all you want but stop threadshitting about it on MetaFilter.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:30 PM on July 23, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:30 PM on July 23, 2016 [16 favorites]
Before she became an actor, Gal Gadot was an IDF combat trainer.
P.S. I'm reminded of overhearing someone complain about how the heavyweight champ in Creed, played by real-life boxer Tony Bellew, looked unconvincing and out-of-shape.
Ha, Tony Bellew doesn't look like a boxer only if you don't know what actual athletes look like, and assume everything is supposed to be Abs n' Pecs. I am pretty insulted that you automatically assume that's my level of knowledge.
Gadot was in the military ten years ago. With all due respect to her, I have worked with many women who have competed in strength, power, and combat sports. Few of them look like bodybuilders, but none of them are built like Gal Gadot. At their most petite, on the gymnast end of things they look like Kacy Catanzaro and towards the lifting side of things they look like Morghan King. Women with appreciable amounts of muscle are seen as not marketable, so it is extremely understandable why Gadot would not want to maintain that level of muscle tone. But I wish it was at least allowed in movies where the woman is expected to be able to actually, like, do stuff.
And before someone trots out the tired old "but it's a fantasy/comic book/why don't you complain about the aliens and flying men" I refer you back to taterpie's comment:
"Yeah, there's always a 'reason' for women to do something a bit more sexily."
posted by Anonymous at 8:40 PM on July 23, 2016
P.S. I'm reminded of overhearing someone complain about how the heavyweight champ in Creed, played by real-life boxer Tony Bellew, looked unconvincing and out-of-shape.
Ha, Tony Bellew doesn't look like a boxer only if you don't know what actual athletes look like, and assume everything is supposed to be Abs n' Pecs. I am pretty insulted that you automatically assume that's my level of knowledge.
Gadot was in the military ten years ago. With all due respect to her, I have worked with many women who have competed in strength, power, and combat sports. Few of them look like bodybuilders, but none of them are built like Gal Gadot. At their most petite, on the gymnast end of things they look like Kacy Catanzaro and towards the lifting side of things they look like Morghan King. Women with appreciable amounts of muscle are seen as not marketable, so it is extremely understandable why Gadot would not want to maintain that level of muscle tone. But I wish it was at least allowed in movies where the woman is expected to be able to actually, like, do stuff.
And before someone trots out the tired old "but it's a fantasy/comic book/why don't you complain about the aliens and flying men" I refer you back to taterpie's comment:
"Yeah, there's always a 'reason' for women to do something a bit more sexily."
posted by Anonymous at 8:40 PM on July 23, 2016
I spent the last hour and a half watching reaction videos for this trailer on youtube. It's basically page after page of people flipping their shit. Like, more than one person cried. Maybe that's normal for youtube reaction videos, I dunno. Man I hope this movie is good.
posted by colbeagle at 8:50 PM on July 23, 2016
posted by colbeagle at 8:50 PM on July 23, 2016
When I was younger the Golden Lasso and the Bracelets of Submission made me feel all funny inside. It wasn't until I was older that I realized that was the point. It's not even subtle.
I am sure that New Yorker article from a year or two back was linked here; I don't think there was any attempt at subtlety ("Marston’s interest in what he called “captivation emotion” informs the bondage in Wonder Woman.") and the bondage was the least of the private complications in their household.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:51 PM on July 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I am sure that New Yorker article from a year or two back was linked here; I don't think there was any attempt at subtlety ("Marston’s interest in what he called “captivation emotion” informs the bondage in Wonder Woman.") and the bondage was the least of the private complications in their household.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:51 PM on July 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Superman gets his power from the sun. There's no reason he has to store it in a massive chest... but guys bulk up for these movies. I wish Gal had gotten her thighs quite a bit bigger, and her biceps.
People say this is 'body shaming' but having a character the height and build of WW (in her better depictions) played by someone who is very slight and told her trainer she refused to add bulk is a bummer - that's actually body shaming.
But to be fair casting anyone over 5'6" as Wolverine is too, so stuff just happens. Forget about it, Jake, it's Hollywood.
posted by taterpie at 8:54 PM on July 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
People say this is 'body shaming' but having a character the height and build of WW (in her better depictions) played by someone who is very slight and told her trainer she refused to add bulk is a bummer - that's actually body shaming.
But to be fair casting anyone over 5'6" as Wolverine is too, so stuff just happens. Forget about it, Jake, it's Hollywood.
posted by taterpie at 8:54 PM on July 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
watching her fight regular soldiers is as exciting and suspenseful as watching a grown man roundhouse-kick a toddler
I dunno, that's part of the appeal of superheroes generally, I think: both that sometimes it's fun to watch a one-sided curbstomp, (not for the finale, but it's half the fun of, say, The Crow). The other part is that the point isn't 'will they win?' the point is more 'how will they go about it?' Will they be gentle and merciful? Will they make someone terrified? Will they be lethal? It's informative about the character, especially in blatant power fantasies.
posted by mordax at 8:59 PM on July 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
I dunno, that's part of the appeal of superheroes generally, I think: both that sometimes it's fun to watch a one-sided curbstomp, (not for the finale, but it's half the fun of, say, The Crow). The other part is that the point isn't 'will they win?' the point is more 'how will they go about it?' Will they be gentle and merciful? Will they make someone terrified? Will they be lethal? It's informative about the character, especially in blatant power fantasies.
posted by mordax at 8:59 PM on July 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah, having complained about the fights with the regular soldiers, I went back and watched it again, and man, it really does look good. They even made the lariat look badass, and I've always thought the lariat was almost as goofy as the invisible airplane. And the leap around 1:13 is just gorgeous.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 9:09 PM on July 23, 2016
posted by Sing Or Swim at 9:09 PM on July 23, 2016
Has anyone ever added up all the Nazis killed by super heroes?
Well, in this one, the total would be zero. These would be Huns (or perhaps the Boche).
posted by GhostintheMachine at 9:09 PM on July 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
Well, in this one, the total would be zero. These would be Huns (or perhaps the Boche).
posted by GhostintheMachine at 9:09 PM on July 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
I saw Ghostbusters today, had a fantastic time, and feel that anyone who feels their childhood was retroactively ruined by it had a bad childhood anyway.
My wife is a huge WW fan, and said seeing this trailer turned her opinion around on Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman, and she actually believed in her as the character now.
posted by mephron at 9:13 PM on July 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
My wife is a huge WW fan, and said seeing this trailer turned her opinion around on Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman, and she actually believed in her as the character now.
posted by mephron at 9:13 PM on July 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
Some women regard fashion as power, as they feel otherwise powerless. I'm ok with the wedges. Love the blinding bright lasso, and WWI is a daring choice, fitting with the timeline of the original comics.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:15 PM on July 23, 2016
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:15 PM on July 23, 2016
Um... Maybe there are a lot of people out there who have not experienced what it's like to finally, FINALLY, see someone you relate to, being a serious bad ass. Not a sexy, eye candy girly girl with a thong and a cute little sword, but a dirty, strong, angry, bloodsoaked, bad ass. Its transformative. Its beyond words. It really is so God damn liberating. I'm not saying thats what this Wonder Woman is going to be, but it seems like it has the potential. Fury Road now, THAT was perfection.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 9:16 PM on July 23, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by WalkerWestridge at 9:16 PM on July 23, 2016 [27 favorites]
I just want Gina Carano to bring Jamie Hernandez's Wonder Woman to life.
posted by littlewater at 9:44 PM on July 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by littlewater at 9:44 PM on July 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maybe there are a lot of people out there who have not experienced what it's like to finally, FINALLY, see someone you relate to, being a serious bad ass. Not a sexy, eye candy girly girl with a thong and a cute little sword, but a dirty, strong, angry, bloodsoaked, bad ass.
That's the feeling I get watching Gina Carano. A woman who looks like the athletic women I know: strong arms, strong thighs, solid build. Women get so much pressure to fit into a specific mold. Expecting them to still fit into that mold while performing amazing feats of athleticism is so, so restrictive and further emphasizes that the female body's importance is in appearance first, function last. One of the reasons so many female athletes end up with eating disorders and/or don't reach their potential is because they have it in their heads that they aren't really athletes unless they've stripped away all their bodyfat and can fit into a size zero. It's sad.
I was really hoping for Gina Carano to play Wonder Woman, actually.
posted by Anonymous at 9:50 PM on July 23, 2016
That's the feeling I get watching Gina Carano. A woman who looks like the athletic women I know: strong arms, strong thighs, solid build. Women get so much pressure to fit into a specific mold. Expecting them to still fit into that mold while performing amazing feats of athleticism is so, so restrictive and further emphasizes that the female body's importance is in appearance first, function last. One of the reasons so many female athletes end up with eating disorders and/or don't reach their potential is because they have it in their heads that they aren't really athletes unless they've stripped away all their bodyfat and can fit into a size zero. It's sad.
I was really hoping for Gina Carano to play Wonder Woman, actually.
posted by Anonymous at 9:50 PM on July 23, 2016
Men bulk up for these superhero roles.
Can't we get a Wonder Woman with a body that looks like it just maybe possibly could perform superhero tasks?
Carrying a 50 pound metal shield requires serious strength.
Can't we see some rippling muscles and flexed abs to support her powerful defense, some ripped thighs as she leaps?
I think Gina ranges from about 150-175. I bet she's got 50 or more on Gal.
Crush could take this Wonder Woman any day, sadly!
posted by littlewater at 10:00 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Can't we get a Wonder Woman with a body that looks like it just maybe possibly could perform superhero tasks?
Carrying a 50 pound metal shield requires serious strength.
Can't we see some rippling muscles and flexed abs to support her powerful defense, some ripped thighs as she leaps?
I think Gina ranges from about 150-175. I bet she's got 50 or more on Gal.
Crush could take this Wonder Woman any day, sadly!
posted by littlewater at 10:00 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I like the feminist bits of dialogue in the trailer and I don't love the body placement that has her face so close to the man's, implying some kind of romantic arc between them. Since I don't know the comics as well, the World War I setting seemed out-of-nowhere; sounds like I should go read the history.
What I would absolutely love is a movie-length version of the Wonder Woman mythos as characterized in "Watershed" (fanvid by chaila).
posted by brainwane at 10:01 PM on July 23, 2016
What I would absolutely love is a movie-length version of the Wonder Woman mythos as characterized in "Watershed" (fanvid by chaila).
posted by brainwane at 10:01 PM on July 23, 2016
History-wise, they backed her origin up from WWII to WWI. I guess it puts further distance from her modern character in the BvS/JLA movies, and ensures there is room for romance with whatever modern partner they pair her with (no pesky Steve Trevor hanging around the old folks' home). It may also make for an easier story to tell with less powerful weapons and technology.
posted by sardonyx at 10:14 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by sardonyx at 10:14 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
i was gonna say look, she's on a horse in some scenes, you gotta have a bit of a heel on your boot for horseback riding safety, everyone fucking knows that! but they're wedges. wedges! those are frighteningly improper equestrian footwear and this is an outrage.
posted by poffin boffin at 10:28 PM on July 23, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 10:28 PM on July 23, 2016 [18 favorites]
The combat trainer thing has to be a translation problem right? You don't become a combat trainer after 3 months of boot camp. A combat trainer in the IDF is gonna be a lifer not a scrubbo who is serving his or her 2 year term. It doesn't make sense?
I thought she was great as WW so that's not a complaint. I'm simply confused.
This is what Gina Carano looked like in top fighting trim. Not bulky at all though obviously toned up the wazoo.
posted by Justinian at 10:58 PM on July 23, 2016
I thought she was great as WW so that's not a complaint. I'm simply confused.
This is what Gina Carano looked like in top fighting trim. Not bulky at all though obviously toned up the wazoo.
posted by Justinian at 10:58 PM on July 23, 2016
I'm just happy they aren't retconning her origins to, like, primitive genetic engineering by the shadowy corporation "Zeno Executive US" or something like that (later revealed to be owned by Lex Luthor's grandfather).
I'm sulky about Zeus instead of Aphrodite, wedges, fewer muscles, and boob highlights, but I'm there for the rest. She has the steadiness, the centerness I want to see in Wonder Woman and it's glorious. Also, I love how she uses the lasso!! I am all here for women power fantasy movies - they are my jam.
posted by Deoridhe at 11:01 PM on July 23, 2016
I'm sulky about Zeus instead of Aphrodite, wedges, fewer muscles, and boob highlights, but I'm there for the rest. She has the steadiness, the centerness I want to see in Wonder Woman and it's glorious. Also, I love how she uses the lasso!! I am all here for women power fantasy movies - they are my jam.
posted by Deoridhe at 11:01 PM on July 23, 2016
Any Wonder Woman movie that doesn't use Wonder is missing a huge opportunity. (One of my favorite Doubleclicks songs)
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:45 PM on July 23, 2016
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:45 PM on July 23, 2016
I hope they've got a good story on why she gets involved in WWI. Isn't that kind of the war that everyone agrees was pointless?
posted by zompist at 11:56 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by zompist at 11:56 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Super hero films are like hotels/casinos in Vegas.
Same buildings. Different carpets.
posted by DonnyMac at 12:00 AM on July 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Same buildings. Different carpets.
posted by DonnyMac at 12:00 AM on July 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
Noisy. Bright flashing lights. Cameos by musicians you'd forgotten existed.
posted by No-sword at 12:24 AM on July 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by No-sword at 12:24 AM on July 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
Is Captain Marvel the WW equivalent in Marvel stuff? My DC/Marvel knowledge is somewhat lacking. Looks like they made the Brie Larson thing official.
posted by Justinian at 1:03 AM on July 24, 2016
posted by Justinian at 1:03 AM on July 24, 2016
So why exactly does she happen to end up drawn into WWI, and on the side of the Allies? i.e. the retrospectively determined "right" side of history? It seems a bit arbitrary and convenient.
posted by mary8nne at 1:13 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by mary8nne at 1:13 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
mary8nne: Maybe it has to do with the traditional Greco-Turkish conflict, which was pretty hot at that point in the Aegean? Though going historically, Amazons are either Scythian or Luwite/Hittite. Which, if you take the Hittite/Armenian theory, suggests another reason.... opposing the Armenian genocide, as they might be the closest ethnic cousins of the Amazons....
posted by LeRoienJaune at 1:20 AM on July 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by LeRoienJaune at 1:20 AM on July 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Super hero films are like hotels/casinos in Vegas.This. I'll be seeing the current crop of Marvel/DC reinventions a couple of years from now, free from my local library. I think the last one I paid to see was Thor.
Same buildings. Different carpets.
But since Hollywood is gonna make these massively expensive blockbuster thud-and-blunder films anyway, having them show badass women out there beating up bad guys instead of waiting for Super Jock to save them is a Good Thing. There's still a lot of generations of he-man action heroes to live down.
posted by Autumn Leaf at 1:22 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Super hero films are like hotels/casinos in Vegas.
Same buildings. Different carpets.
Noisy. Bright flashing lights. Cameos by musicians you'd forgotten existed.
Gaudy pastiches of various exotic locations and historical periods...cheap buffets...full of chain-smoking retirees at 2pm and tour groups waiting for Cirque du Soleil...wait, what?
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:10 AM on July 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
Same buildings. Different carpets.
Noisy. Bright flashing lights. Cameos by musicians you'd forgotten existed.
Gaudy pastiches of various exotic locations and historical periods...cheap buffets...full of chain-smoking retirees at 2pm and tour groups waiting for Cirque du Soleil...wait, what?
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:10 AM on July 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
Fury Road worked because the producers made an honest assessment about the state-of-the-union in CGI. CGI wheels? Doable. CGI lips from a different shot transposed on the main character? Doable, and used in scores of action movies and dramas. CGI trucks and vehicles in convincing action close ups? Not doable. Not now, not for possibly five, possibly ten years. This aspect of Fury demanded practical effects, and all of the money, time, skilled stuntpeople, and insurance liability that that entails.
As alluded to upthread, if a switch flips in your brain that says "this is CGI," it's a movie fail. CGI works best when its transparent, and, boy, beautifully executed, transparent CGI is everywhere.
posted by Gordion Knott at 4:16 AM on July 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
As alluded to upthread, if a switch flips in your brain that says "this is CGI," it's a movie fail. CGI works best when its transparent, and, boy, beautifully executed, transparent CGI is everywhere.
posted by Gordion Knott at 4:16 AM on July 24, 2016 [8 favorites]
I imagine she winds up on the Allies' side of WWI because of Chris Pine happening to wash up on her island.
If that's too arbitrary and convenient than something something magic lariat shows her who the good guys are, maybs.
posted by xigxag at 4:20 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
If that's too arbitrary and convenient than something something magic lariat shows her who the good guys are, maybs.
posted by xigxag at 4:20 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
The combat trainer thing has to be a translation problem right? You don't become a combat trainer after 3 months of boot camp. A combat trainer in the IDF is gonna be a lifer not a scrubbo who is serving his or her 2 year term. It doesn't make sense?
Agreed, it does sound odd to my American ears, as if they're trying to play up that aspect of Gadot's life in the IDF. Possibly its just PR bullshit put out by an agency. The important part is that Gadot likes doing the physical stuff and can probably handle herself fine in that aspect, so let's not scrutinize every aspect of her life or that of the character she's playing.
It's not going to be a perfect portrayal (whatever that means), I'm just hoping that the good aspects will outweigh the imperfect ones. Getting it right is more important than getting it perfect.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:34 AM on July 24, 2016
Agreed, it does sound odd to my American ears, as if they're trying to play up that aspect of Gadot's life in the IDF. Possibly its just PR bullshit put out by an agency. The important part is that Gadot likes doing the physical stuff and can probably handle herself fine in that aspect, so let's not scrutinize every aspect of her life or that of the character she's playing.
It's not going to be a perfect portrayal (whatever that means), I'm just hoping that the good aspects will outweigh the imperfect ones. Getting it right is more important than getting it perfect.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:34 AM on July 24, 2016
sardonyx: My spouse agrees with me that DC probably felt a World War II setting would lead to unfavorable comparisons with Marvel's Captain America: The First Avenger.
zompist & mary8anne: I'm right there with you. The First Avenger uses World War II to demonstrate how Steve Rogers is a good guy fighting in the 20th century war that US viewers are most likely to say "of course that was a just war" about. World War I ... maybe the Germans attack Themyscira so she's defending her homeland? I'd be happily surprised if LeRoienJaune's speculation is right and the movie studios are willing to mention the Armenian genocide onscreen.
My intuition about Wonder Woman is that she, like a goddess, might make momentary appearances to turn the tide of an entire war through unearthly means. So it doesn't feel right to have her show up as just a super-soldier, and especially not during World War I since that's such a slog of a conflict without the kind of justification that 21st-century superheroes usually need to go get in a fight. The reason I started watching the Marvel Cinematic Universe movies was to better appreciate fanfic and fanvids, most crucially "Hey Ho" by thuvia ptarth which critiques the military-superhero complex in the MCU. (At least Iron Man 3 and Captain America: The Winter Soldier complicated it, so the MCU isn't always entirely "rah rah US/Allied military & intelligence agencies.") I haven't seen any of the DC movies except for one of the Superman reboot movies -- how much human military interoperation do DC superheroes do, usually? This Wonder Woman trailer feels wrong-note to me because Wonder Woman (to me) is, even more than Captain America or Thor or the other Marvel heroes, not someone who would fit in a human military operation.
Now: if this is an alternate universe where Wonder Woman gets the relevant diplomats to fix the Treaty of Versailles so it isn't so horrible, that would be amazing.
posted by brainwane at 4:37 AM on July 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
zompist & mary8anne: I'm right there with you. The First Avenger uses World War II to demonstrate how Steve Rogers is a good guy fighting in the 20th century war that US viewers are most likely to say "of course that was a just war" about. World War I ... maybe the Germans attack Themyscira so she's defending her homeland? I'd be happily surprised if LeRoienJaune's speculation is right and the movie studios are willing to mention the Armenian genocide onscreen.
My intuition about Wonder Woman is that she, like a goddess, might make momentary appearances to turn the tide of an entire war through unearthly means. So it doesn't feel right to have her show up as just a super-soldier, and especially not during World War I since that's such a slog of a conflict without the kind of justification that 21st-century superheroes usually need to go get in a fight. The reason I started watching the Marvel Cinematic Universe movies was to better appreciate fanfic and fanvids, most crucially "Hey Ho" by thuvia ptarth which critiques the military-superhero complex in the MCU. (At least Iron Man 3 and Captain America: The Winter Soldier complicated it, so the MCU isn't always entirely "rah rah US/Allied military & intelligence agencies.") I haven't seen any of the DC movies except for one of the Superman reboot movies -- how much human military interoperation do DC superheroes do, usually? This Wonder Woman trailer feels wrong-note to me because Wonder Woman (to me) is, even more than Captain America or Thor or the other Marvel heroes, not someone who would fit in a human military operation.
Now: if this is an alternate universe where Wonder Woman gets the relevant diplomats to fix the Treaty of Versailles so it isn't so horrible, that would be amazing.
posted by brainwane at 4:37 AM on July 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
The thing about the practicality of the Fury Road shoot is that it brought together a team of people working on something together. They went into the desert together and gathered a lot of material which was later stitched together digitally, but the important thing is the work they did as a group to create the material. Miller allowed people to exert their own creativity as long as it didn't impinge on the whole, which produced a rich, diverse culture of material, which could be brought together in the editing room. Gilliam is similar (watch The Hamster Factor, the Twelve Monkeys making of). Most Hollywood production is incapable of doing this, and even the most diverting mainstream action movie will seem production-line-made by comparison because … well … it is.
posted by Grangousier at 5:03 AM on July 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 5:03 AM on July 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
During Canada Day weekend, Shepherd and I decided that it would be much much better if Gina Carano were Jakita Wagner from Planetary than WW.
posted by Kitteh at 5:29 AM on July 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 5:29 AM on July 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
I wouldn't be surprised if she starts out on Chris Pine's side but then (maybe after encountering a teenaged German calling out for his mom or something) says "This war is stupid and insane, a slaughter for no reason, the perfect symbol of the World of Men," and peaces out of the whole thing in disgust.
posted by No-sword at 5:45 AM on July 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by No-sword at 5:45 AM on July 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
No-sword, I wish she would do that, but I will be surprised if she actually does.
I love the WWI aesthetic, but hate that this meaningless war is likely to be billed as good vs. evil so WW can kick evil ass.
Time will tell!
posted by allthinky at 6:01 AM on July 24, 2016
I love the WWI aesthetic, but hate that this meaningless war is likely to be billed as good vs. evil so WW can kick evil ass.
Time will tell!
posted by allthinky at 6:01 AM on July 24, 2016
I don't get the problem with Gal Gadot's physicality. According to her wikipedia page it's established in the canon that WW can lift tens of thousands of pounds. Even if she were built like Arnold Schwarzenegger that's no more believable, so if there's enough magic in her background to make that possible it's likely possible no matter what she looks like.
And as for the five soldier curb-stomp, those are five soldiers with automatic weapons which might presumably not be a thing she would have come up against before. She is not immortal (as a demigod she doesn't age but she can be killed), and the fact that she deflects bullets with her bracelets kind of suggests that it would be a Bad Thing if she actually got hit by a bullet. So that fight is actually kind of interesting.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:34 AM on July 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
And as for the five soldier curb-stomp, those are five soldiers with automatic weapons which might presumably not be a thing she would have come up against before. She is not immortal (as a demigod she doesn't age but she can be killed), and the fact that she deflects bullets with her bracelets kind of suggests that it would be a Bad Thing if she actually got hit by a bullet. So that fight is actually kind of interesting.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:34 AM on July 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
The perfect truly is the enemy of the good, as I never fail to be reminded by the occasional comment here.
That said, I agree with the comment about Steve reading as too modern. The sensibility and ways of speech of a military officer in 1918 likely did not include "Well, that's neat,' beyond the fact that its first attributed use as meaning "good" comes some 20 years later. Even as I realize this is artistic license, it irritates me. What's next, "Well, no duh!'?
That said, this and the JL trailer give me hope that DC (always Microsoft to Marvel's Apple) looked at the grosses for the MCU films and said, "Huh. Maybe grimdark's not the way to go...?"
posted by the sobsister at 6:51 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
That said, I agree with the comment about Steve reading as too modern. The sensibility and ways of speech of a military officer in 1918 likely did not include "Well, that's neat,' beyond the fact that its first attributed use as meaning "good" comes some 20 years later. Even as I realize this is artistic license, it irritates me. What's next, "Well, no duh!'?
That said, this and the JL trailer give me hope that DC (always Microsoft to Marvel's Apple) looked at the grosses for the MCU films and said, "Huh. Maybe grimdark's not the way to go...?"
posted by the sobsister at 6:51 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think that Flash has potential but he is also just Spider-man with the name crossed off.
posted by graventy at 6:51 AM on July 24, 2016
posted by graventy at 6:51 AM on July 24, 2016
I think this looks really good. A major aspect of that is that I find WWI to be fascinating, and there are basically never blockbusters set during it, but the character also looks great, and the direction (as shown in the trailer) seemed at least a step above Zach Snyder.
posted by codacorolla at 6:55 AM on July 24, 2016
posted by codacorolla at 6:55 AM on July 24, 2016
I don't get the problem with Gal Gadot's physicality. According to her wikipedia page it's established in the canon that WW can lift tens of thousands of pounds.
Then, with respect, you haven't been reading the comments about it very carefully. As mentioned upthread, "there's always a reason for a woman to do things more sexily."
The issue isn't that it's impossible for WW to have a less athletic or strong-looking body. The issue is about how women are represented on screen. They're only allowed to have bodies within a very narrowly prescribed range, especially as leading characters. This range is far narrower than the range for men. And it so happens that this is because this body type is the one that is currently considered the most conventionally attractive.
Sturdier, more muscular women (e.g. Gina Carano) don't usually get cast in these kinds of roles. While there's no problem with Gal Gadot as WW in isolation (and in fact she looks like she does awesome), in context it's part of a sexist pattern.
And it stings more when the character is one whose physicality and strength is a major aspect of her. Even a woman who can lift cars isn't allowed to have large muscles, because that would be unattractive.
By the way, I don't actually believe this in-universe explanation anyway. Diana is a very physical woman who pushes her limits, which are just higher--not nonexistent. She trains, etc. She is still doing activity that will build muscle.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:28 AM on July 24, 2016 [15 favorites]
Then, with respect, you haven't been reading the comments about it very carefully. As mentioned upthread, "there's always a reason for a woman to do things more sexily."
The issue isn't that it's impossible for WW to have a less athletic or strong-looking body. The issue is about how women are represented on screen. They're only allowed to have bodies within a very narrowly prescribed range, especially as leading characters. This range is far narrower than the range for men. And it so happens that this is because this body type is the one that is currently considered the most conventionally attractive.
Sturdier, more muscular women (e.g. Gina Carano) don't usually get cast in these kinds of roles. While there's no problem with Gal Gadot as WW in isolation (and in fact she looks like she does awesome), in context it's part of a sexist pattern.
And it stings more when the character is one whose physicality and strength is a major aspect of her. Even a woman who can lift cars isn't allowed to have large muscles, because that would be unattractive.
By the way, I don't actually believe this in-universe explanation anyway. Diana is a very physical woman who pushes her limits, which are just higher--not nonexistent. She trains, etc. She is still doing activity that will build muscle.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:28 AM on July 24, 2016 [15 favorites]
A major aspect of that is that I find WWI to be fascinating, and there are basically never blockbusters set during it...
Agreed, but Hollywood isn't known for being faithful to history, so that aspect has me worried about the movie. Doesn't mean it won't or can't be good, but I'm reserving the right to grumble if actual history is ignored or twisted.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:35 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Agreed, but Hollywood isn't known for being faithful to history, so that aspect has me worried about the movie. Doesn't mean it won't or can't be good, but I'm reserving the right to grumble if actual history is ignored or twisted.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:35 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
It'd be interesting if the first Wonder Woman movie was WWI and the second was WWII.
posted by SPrintF at 7:39 AM on July 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 7:39 AM on July 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
I really wish there was a way to talk about this without making Gadot's weight, dress size, muscles or lack thereof, etc a topic of discussion. I understand why it is that way and people have raised valid and interesting points, but at the end of the day I hate that we're sitting here critiquing a woman's body, yet again.
posted by sallybrown at 7:43 AM on July 24, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 7:43 AM on July 24, 2016 [34 favorites]
poffin, because they use the damn UltraDark filters I could not tell, but maybe WW is not using stirrups in which case her boots don't matter.
(She probably is, though, because only horse nerds care about these things)
(also it would be dumb not to use stirrups in most combat situations)
(I am going to go to this movie and think about horse tack now)
posted by emjaybee at 8:01 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
(She probably is, though, because only horse nerds care about these things)
(also it would be dumb not to use stirrups in most combat situations)
(I am going to go to this movie and think about horse tack now)
posted by emjaybee at 8:01 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm finding the tone in the second link in the OP panting and gross, much like all the rest of the first page of results on a quick google. Agreed that this shouldn't be about the actresses physicality. Here's Gal Gadot's actual thoughts on the role.
I haven't seen a superhero movie since I napped through Thor, but I'm all in for this. Showing me women who kick ass? Yes, take my money.
posted by travertina at 8:04 AM on July 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
I haven't seen a superhero movie since I napped through Thor, but I'm all in for this. Showing me women who kick ass? Yes, take my money.
posted by travertina at 8:04 AM on July 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
love the WWI aesthetic, but hate that this meaningless war is likely to be billed as good vs. evil so WW can kick evil ass.
So. The idea of a "warrior goddess" sounds pretty cool. But, when you get in a real war, it is not at all like how they made it look in the big brochure!
posted by thelonius at 8:14 AM on July 24, 2016
So. The idea of a "warrior goddess" sounds pretty cool. But, when you get in a real war, it is not at all like how they made it look in the big brochure!
posted by thelonius at 8:14 AM on July 24, 2016
I'm reserving the right to grumble if actual history is ignored or twisted.
if?
posted by kisch mokusch at 8:22 AM on July 24, 2016
if?
posted by kisch mokusch at 8:22 AM on July 24, 2016
HOW IS SHE GONNA SWORD FIGHT ON HORSEBACK WITHOUT STIRRUPS IM AGITATED
posted by poffin boffin at 9:04 AM on July 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 9:04 AM on July 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman was the best part of BvS but this trailer doesn't do much for me. Maybe I'm just burnt out on superhero movies after seeing so many in the last decade or so but I'm really getting to hate the action scenes in all these films and this doesn't look any different.
posted by octothorpe at 9:05 AM on July 24, 2016
posted by octothorpe at 9:05 AM on July 24, 2016
A major aspect of that is that I find WWI to be fascinating, and there are basically never blockbusters set during it
Oh Biggles franchise that never happened...
posted by Artw at 9:06 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh Biggles franchise that never happened...
posted by Artw at 9:06 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
The ancient Greeks, Romans, and Persians fielded sword-wielding cavalry without stirrups. Hell, the ancient Greeks and Persians didn't even have saddles, just a blanket.
posted by jedicus at 9:28 AM on July 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by jedicus at 9:28 AM on July 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
And shoe-wise, heels weren't used (in riding cultures I'm familiar with) until the later Middle Ages, a few centuries after stirrups became common.
posted by jedicus at 9:32 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jedicus at 9:32 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
The reason I started watching the Marvel Cinematic Universe movies was to better appreciate fanfic and fanvids, most crucially "Hey Ho" by thuvia ptarth which critiques the military-superhero complex in the MCU.
Brainwane, I'm gonna need more of these so start dishing 'em up.
posted by Ber at 9:37 AM on July 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Brainwane, I'm gonna need more of these so start dishing 'em up.
posted by Ber at 9:37 AM on July 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
At least they got a female director for this film. I was dreading Wonder Woman: Sucker Punch II.
posted by benzenedream at 10:12 AM on July 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 10:12 AM on July 24, 2016 [7 favorites]
Switching the setting to WWI is a pretty cool choice, and I like that Wonder Woman seems to be filling a similar role to Captain America in the MCU: Character from the Golden Age who wears a flag and fights with a round shield, and has returned to us to lead a new generation of heroes.
She's front and center in this Justice League poster, or at least center, so there's something to the idea that she becomes leader of the JL, the catalyst who causes DC's heroes to rally around.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:23 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
She's front and center in this Justice League poster, or at least center, so there's something to the idea that she becomes leader of the JL, the catalyst who causes DC's heroes to rally around.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:23 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
If you want to see Chis Pine in something where he's radically different than his stubbly pretty boy mode, check out Smokin' Aces. The movie is very different in tone than its marketing presented it as, for better or worse. The point is, after my SO and I saw him in it she said she felt like she needed to scrub her skin off to get rid of the feeling.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 11:32 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 11:32 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh, and I'm looking forward to this despite its problematic aspects because Gal Godot was great in BvS (way better than the movie she was in) and I hope it leads to greater representation for women on both sides of the camera.
I understand the desire to figure out whether the plot will be good, but why work yourself up and get preemptively angry? We'll know soon enough if it's any good.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 11:37 AM on July 24, 2016
I understand the desire to figure out whether the plot will be good, but why work yourself up and get preemptively angry? We'll know soon enough if it's any good.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 11:37 AM on July 24, 2016
I hope they've got a good story on why she gets involved in WWI. Isn't that kind of the war that everyone agrees was pointless?
Based on the Wonder Woman in the Timmverse, I think they could do something with the idea that the war IS pointless. I mean, which Greek god is into conflict and slaughter just because, and is a Wonder Woman enemy?
Yeah, I'm hoping that whether or not Wonder Woman gets involved in the war on the Allied side (maybe with a side of "War to save democracy"), the real plot will be she actually has to deal with Ares.
I mean they could do that. Whether DC can is another story.
posted by happyroach at 12:59 PM on July 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Based on the Wonder Woman in the Timmverse, I think they could do something with the idea that the war IS pointless. I mean, which Greek god is into conflict and slaughter just because, and is a Wonder Woman enemy?
Yeah, I'm hoping that whether or not Wonder Woman gets involved in the war on the Allied side (maybe with a side of "War to save democracy"), the real plot will be she actually has to deal with Ares.
I mean they could do that. Whether DC can is another story.
posted by happyroach at 12:59 PM on July 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
The "parallel war" of Cap versus Hydra or whatever to keep from altering "real" history is pretty much a tradition now.
posted by Artw at 1:35 PM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 1:35 PM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I hope they've got a good story on why she gets involved in WWI.
Men finding their way to/bringing their wars to Themyscira is good enough for me.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 2:27 PM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Men finding their way to/bringing their wars to Themyscira is good enough for me.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 2:27 PM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I really love that she has an accent. I know Gal Gadot is Israeli, but I sort of expected she'd be given a generic American accent anyway. Wonder Woman is often depicted as "all-American" and it seems like they're deliberately framing her as a foreigner here.
This looks damn good, and I'm really excited to see Patti Jenkins leveling up as a director. Monster was so well-directed, and it's crazy that it came out 13 years ago and she hasn't had a feature since then. (She has directed a lot of TV, including a lot of the first season of The Killing.)
I feel like I've seen this pattern a lot over the years, where a female director's first movie gets a ton of acclaim, but then she doesn't get the kind of support that a male filmmaker would, and either can't get another film made, or has one disappointing movie that completely derails her career (see: Karyn Kusama). Somebody like Zack Snyder can make a bomb like Sucker Punch and still get handed Superman, but Patti Jenkins hasn't directed a feature since 2003, even though Monster did well financially, and netted Charlize Theron every major acting award that year.
Jenkins' name hasn't really come up that much in the discussion of this film here, but I think she was an interesting and thoughtful choice, and I'm looking forward to seeing her take on Wonder Woman.
posted by Nibbly Fang at 4:43 PM on July 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
This looks damn good, and I'm really excited to see Patti Jenkins leveling up as a director. Monster was so well-directed, and it's crazy that it came out 13 years ago and she hasn't had a feature since then. (She has directed a lot of TV, including a lot of the first season of The Killing.)
I feel like I've seen this pattern a lot over the years, where a female director's first movie gets a ton of acclaim, but then she doesn't get the kind of support that a male filmmaker would, and either can't get another film made, or has one disappointing movie that completely derails her career (see: Karyn Kusama). Somebody like Zack Snyder can make a bomb like Sucker Punch and still get handed Superman, but Patti Jenkins hasn't directed a feature since 2003, even though Monster did well financially, and netted Charlize Theron every major acting award that year.
Jenkins' name hasn't really come up that much in the discussion of this film here, but I think she was an interesting and thoughtful choice, and I'm looking forward to seeing her take on Wonder Woman.
posted by Nibbly Fang at 4:43 PM on July 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
Speaking of Karyn Kusama, her "The Invitation" is great and on Netflix right now (I say "her 'The Invitation' " because there is also a terrible movie of the same name from 2003 on the streaming services which she did not make).
posted by crush-onastick at 4:49 PM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by crush-onastick at 4:49 PM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
This looks pretty good! And the Justice League and Suicide Squad sizzle reels look not terrible.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 6:12 PM on July 24, 2016
posted by the man of twists and turns at 6:12 PM on July 24, 2016
In the comics at least WW's "all-American" temper has been redirected toward her greek Goddess roots for many years now.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:17 PM on July 24, 2016
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:17 PM on July 24, 2016
I understand the desire to figure out whether the plot will be good, but why work yourself up and get preemptively angry?
it's like you've never even seen an internet before
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:32 PM on July 24, 2016 [10 favorites]
it's like you've never even seen an internet before
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:32 PM on July 24, 2016 [10 favorites]
Yeah, I want to say that even though I have some issues (especially re: high heels), I'm excited for this movie. Starring a woman, directed by a woman -- all for this. And Wonder Woman is such an interesting character to start with.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:09 PM on July 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:09 PM on July 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Ber, I started collecting links to interesting fanwork about the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and found many tabs proliferating, and fear I'd be derailing a conversation that's supposed to be about Wonder Woman. (Should I make an FPP?) I'll limit myself to mentioning the fanvids "U.S." by innerbrat, "The War Was in Color" by settiai, and "Clint Eastwood" by giandujakiss which in particular have interesting things to say about soldiers and the US military in the MCU.
posted by brainwane at 7:32 PM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by brainwane at 7:32 PM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
...writing got completely incoherent.
I don't agree! She says "you're a man" and he says, approximately "can't you tell?" At least that's how I read it. It's as if I see your jalopy and say "that's a car!" You might be a little offended, as my surprise indicates that at first I failed to comprehend that this thing can in fact drive. In absence of the correct but less likely interpretation, (she hasn't seen one before!) he assumes a slight insult.
posted by TreeRooster at 9:15 PM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't agree! She says "you're a man" and he says, approximately "can't you tell?" At least that's how I read it. It's as if I see your jalopy and say "that's a car!" You might be a little offended, as my surprise indicates that at first I failed to comprehend that this thing can in fact drive. In absence of the correct but less likely interpretation, (she hasn't seen one before!) he assumes a slight insult.
posted by TreeRooster at 9:15 PM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Should I make an FPP?
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:44 PM on July 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
YESposted by the man of twists and turns at 9:44 PM on July 24, 2016 [6 favorites]
My DC fandom is pretty limited compared to my Marvel/Indie worship, so I don't really have the depth of knowledge I'd like to have on this subject. I have an issue with this trailer that I'm not seeing called out, so I'm betting its not as problematic as it feels to me, but... why does this Steve Trevor character seem so central? Is the intent here to establish him as a romantic interest for Diana? My (limited) understanding of the canon has Steve as more of a foil to illuminate Diana's foreign nature. Like a fish-outta-water thing. Is that wrong?
I just find it problematic because, once again, a female hero cannot have an origin that isn't somehow motivated by a man, or her romantic feelings for one.
P.S. If you want to see Chis Pine in something where he's radically different than his stubbly pretty boy mode, check out Smokin' Aces. OMG I'VE WATCHED THIS MOVIE FOR YEARS WITHOUT REALIZING THAT WAS CHRIS PINE.
posted by butterstick at 4:23 AM on July 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
I just find it problematic because, once again, a female hero cannot have an origin that isn't somehow motivated by a man, or her romantic feelings for one.
P.S. If you want to see Chis Pine in something where he's radically different than his stubbly pretty boy mode, check out Smokin' Aces. OMG I'VE WATCHED THIS MOVIE FOR YEARS WITHOUT REALIZING THAT WAS CHRIS PINE.
posted by butterstick at 4:23 AM on July 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Steve Trevor is part of Wonder Woman's initial characterisation: the only reason she left Themyscira was that she was returning him to his world. But the story has been played with by different writers, some of whom give Trevor a greater or lesser role. I like the one in the Bombshells reboot, where her motive for staying is basically "I hate evil and oppression and will fight the Axis"; Trevor is her sweetie, but not her driving force.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:32 AM on July 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:32 AM on July 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
If done properly, WWI really is the ideal setting for Wonder Woman.
The whole original concept (leaving out the whole BDSM fetish) was all the Amazons had retreated because men were ruining everything by constant pointless war.
What better to showcase that than what may have been the single most pointlessly bloody and stupid conflict ever waged? A war where 1.5 million people would die in a single, 141 day long, battle that settled nothing and was fought for no particular strategic gain? In a war that was, at heart, nothing but the last dying gasps of the old European monarchies as they faced the loss of their power?
Nothing more perfectly encapsulates the contempt that Diana and her fellow Amazons had for men than WWI.
Of course, if they fuck it up and turn it into just good guys vs. bad guys and Diana fighting proto-Nazis than meh.
posted by sotonohito at 8:02 AM on July 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
The whole original concept (leaving out the whole BDSM fetish) was all the Amazons had retreated because men were ruining everything by constant pointless war.
What better to showcase that than what may have been the single most pointlessly bloody and stupid conflict ever waged? A war where 1.5 million people would die in a single, 141 day long, battle that settled nothing and was fought for no particular strategic gain? In a war that was, at heart, nothing but the last dying gasps of the old European monarchies as they faced the loss of their power?
Nothing more perfectly encapsulates the contempt that Diana and her fellow Amazons had for men than WWI.
Of course, if they fuck it up and turn it into just good guys vs. bad guys and Diana fighting proto-Nazis than meh.
posted by sotonohito at 8:02 AM on July 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Of course, if they fuck it up and turn it into just good guys vs. bad guys and Diana fighting proto-Nazis than meh.
The trailer shows Chris Pine as a stereotypical handsome All American lad, while WW faces off against vaguely Germanic looking almost faceless soldiers, sooooo....yeaaah.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:24 AM on July 25, 2016
The trailer shows Chris Pine as a stereotypical handsome All American lad, while WW faces off against vaguely Germanic looking almost faceless soldiers, sooooo....yeaaah.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:24 AM on July 25, 2016
I’ve been reading every iteration of BvS as BtVS and had a second of confusion every damn time. I mean, I know it’s been a while since I watched it but I don’t remember a Wonder Woman guest appearance on Buffy.
posted by She Kisses Wyverns at 10:06 AM on July 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by She Kisses Wyverns at 10:06 AM on July 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
I deeply distrust DC after disliking and/or hating every movie they've put out since the second Nolan Batman, but seeing Wonder Woman in action got me right in my Xena the Warrior Princess-loving inner child's feels. I'm adjusting my expectations to be very low so as not to be disappointed/furious.
posted by yasaman at 12:59 PM on July 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 12:59 PM on July 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
yasaman, your mention of your "Xena the Warrior Princess-loving inner child's feels" makes me think you'd like giandujakiss's fanvid "Titanium". I did not grow up watching the live-action Wonder Woman series, but "Titanium" helps me see what's awesome about it.
I also like "A Hero Comes Home" by cleo, on Diana's relationship with Themyscira. I was thinking earlier this evening about how Wonder Woman, unlike childhood-traumatized Batman or Superman, fundamentally comes from a place of wholeness and functional community. It can be hard to dramatically depict that -- what's that saying, that happiness writes white?
posted by brainwane at 6:25 PM on July 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I also like "A Hero Comes Home" by cleo, on Diana's relationship with Themyscira. I was thinking earlier this evening about how Wonder Woman, unlike childhood-traumatized Batman or Superman, fundamentally comes from a place of wholeness and functional community. It can be hard to dramatically depict that -- what's that saying, that happiness writes white?
posted by brainwane at 6:25 PM on July 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Reports: DC Films’ discovery of laughter and joy didn’t come in time for ‘Suicide Squad’
posted by Artw at 10:07 AM on August 2, 2016
posted by Artw at 10:07 AM on August 2, 2016
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
That Flash though - he's charming as heck. Ideally he's not just a Peter Parker retread, but I am addressing the wrong trailer here!
One thing I am excited for is Wonder Woman's blood and thunder fighting. She isn't going to flip up and wrap her thighs around a dude's face as an attack - and male gaze titillation. SHe punches the crap out of people... and maybe breaks necks.
Glad to hear the WW theme that was in BvS, and was the best part of the score, is here too.
posted by taterpie at 4:41 PM on July 23, 2016 [5 favorites]