Could women be trusted with their own pregnancy tests?
July 29, 2016 8:17 PM Subscribe
"In 1967, Margaret Crane was a 26-year-old product designer at Organon Pharmaceuticals, sketching face-cream bottles and ointment jars. One day, as she walked through a lab at the company’s headquarters in New Jersey, she spotted rows of test tubes on shiny racks that twinkled under the industrial lights.
“What are these?” she asked one of the scientists.
Pregnancy tests, he said. A doctor would collect urine from his patient and send it to the company’s lab for analysis. The results would be sent back to the doctor, who would then inform the patient.
But Ms. Crane immediately saw another possibility: Why not cut out the doctor entirely?"
Why at-home pregnancy tests weren't available until the late-seventies. (SLNYT)
I was baffled at first by the "senator's daughter" hypothetical. Even trying it solely in the court of public opinion, how could that have been the test's fault? But it wasn't about that at all. It was about the idea that a woman should either pass through the medical gates of the patriarchy to verify her pregnancy, or crawl away from society to suffer in shame.
I was reading a mystery from the 60s lately in which a single girl puts on a wedding ring and gives herself a false name at the clinic to get the pregnancy test, which of course is positive, which of course gets her murdered by the man who got her pregnant. It was all very matter-of-fact, no reflection on the insane imposture - and why should there have been? The author was a man; the business of solving the mystery belonged to men; the business of a pregnant woman is for men.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:31 PM on July 29, 2016 [25 favorites]
I was reading a mystery from the 60s lately in which a single girl puts on a wedding ring and gives herself a false name at the clinic to get the pregnancy test, which of course is positive, which of course gets her murdered by the man who got her pregnant. It was all very matter-of-fact, no reflection on the insane imposture - and why should there have been? The author was a man; the business of solving the mystery belonged to men; the business of a pregnant woman is for men.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:31 PM on July 29, 2016 [25 favorites]
the business of a pregnant woman is for men.
In a country with no national paid maternity leave policy and no national policy for earning sick or emergency leave (which mothers need regularly), this statement has ramifications and echoes far beyond the scope of this article.
Also, really fascinating article! I was struck by the "Some regulators worried that “frightened 13-year-olds” would be the main users of the test kits". What sort of world were these regulators living in, and what was the reality they experienced that made this be at the top of their thoughts?
posted by hippybear at 8:41 PM on July 29, 2016 [22 favorites]
In a country with no national paid maternity leave policy and no national policy for earning sick or emergency leave (which mothers need regularly), this statement has ramifications and echoes far beyond the scope of this article.
Also, really fascinating article! I was struck by the "Some regulators worried that “frightened 13-year-olds” would be the main users of the test kits". What sort of world were these regulators living in, and what was the reality they experienced that made this be at the top of their thoughts?
posted by hippybear at 8:41 PM on July 29, 2016 [22 favorites]
The one where Freud had to invent an Oedipal theory to explain widespread incestuous sexual abuse in the upper classes because Good Fathers don't do that....
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 8:55 PM on July 29, 2016 [33 favorites]
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 8:55 PM on July 29, 2016 [33 favorites]
And yay, another Margaret inventor for me to add to my daughter's shortlist! There's gotta be a very cute zany children's story book in her life somewhere - the phones on either side of the bed, the 1950s-1970s fashion changes and all the tiny babies and wonderful stuff about families and being in love and choices and knowledge and design, and her happily ever after being what she wanted with Ira and a career!
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 9:05 PM on July 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 9:05 PM on July 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
PRX's Transistor: The Invention of the Home Pregnancy Test
(Originally from Mother: A Podcast, but I'm having trouble figuring out which episode it was in.)
Includes an interview with Margaret Crane herself.
posted by XMLicious at 9:48 PM on July 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
(Originally from Mother: A Podcast, but I'm having trouble figuring out which episode it was in.)
Includes an interview with Margaret Crane herself.
posted by XMLicious at 9:48 PM on July 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
And best of all she got $1 (but not really).
posted by coberh at 11:54 PM on July 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by coberh at 11:54 PM on July 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
" In 1969, Organon applied for a patent, with Ms. Crane listed as the inventor. “We had a little ceremony in the office, with the lawyers and executives. They had me sign my rights away for $1,” Ms. Crane told me. She never did get that dollar."
::rage:: Reading things like this remind me we women can never get complacent about getting our rights.
posted by Rufous-headed Towhee heehee at 1:54 AM on July 30, 2016 [51 favorites]
::rage:: Reading things like this remind me we women can never get complacent about getting our rights.
posted by Rufous-headed Towhee heehee at 1:54 AM on July 30, 2016 [51 favorites]
This (pdf) seems to be her patent.
This (.pdf) is a very interesting article by Leif Wide about the history of pregancy tests, focusing on the development of the technology rather than the social and marketing aspects.
I hadn't appreciated how the early immunological tests worked, before the labelling of antibodies with enzymes of flourescent markers. The urine to be tested was added to a mixture of dried red blood coated with hCG cells and antibodies against hCG. If the patient was pregnant, the hCG in their urine would bind to the antibodies, preventing them from binding to the red blood cells; they would then slide down the wall of of the test tube and settle in a ring rather than adhering to the glass (Figure 1 of the article).
posted by James Scott-Brown at 2:54 AM on July 30, 2016 [8 favorites]
This (.pdf) is a very interesting article by Leif Wide about the history of pregancy tests, focusing on the development of the technology rather than the social and marketing aspects.
I hadn't appreciated how the early immunological tests worked, before the labelling of antibodies with enzymes of flourescent markers. The urine to be tested was added to a mixture of dried red blood coated with hCG cells and antibodies against hCG. If the patient was pregnant, the hCG in their urine would bind to the antibodies, preventing them from binding to the red blood cells; they would then slide down the wall of of the test tube and settle in a ring rather than adhering to the glass (Figure 1 of the article).
posted by James Scott-Brown at 2:54 AM on July 30, 2016 [8 favorites]
Articles like this more than make up fo the NYTs lifestyle articles. It shows in concrete ways how far we've come even from the supposedly uninhibited days of the 60s and 70s. And in some ways, how close we remain.
posted by TedW at 3:24 AM on July 30, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by TedW at 3:24 AM on July 30, 2016 [5 favorites]
She never did get that dollar.
Wouldn't that mean they breached the contract, and she could sue? Doesn't someone owe her a fair bit of compensation?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:18 AM on July 30, 2016 [7 favorites]
Wouldn't that mean they breached the contract, and she could sue? Doesn't someone owe her a fair bit of compensation?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:18 AM on July 30, 2016 [7 favorites]
::rage:: Reading things like this remind me we women can never get complacent about getting our rights.
In fairness to Organon, it's pretty much universal corporate policy to do this to male inventor-employees, too.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:05 AM on July 30, 2016 [12 favorites]
In fairness to Organon, it's pretty much universal corporate policy to do this to male inventor-employees, too.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:05 AM on July 30, 2016 [12 favorites]
Really interesting article, but I'm pretty sick of stories about female scientists and inventors being interspersed with their love stories.
posted by i_am_a_fiesta at 6:48 AM on July 30, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by i_am_a_fiesta at 6:48 AM on July 30, 2016 [11 favorites]
Really interesting article, but I'm pretty sick of stories about female scientists and inventors being interspersed with their love stories.
I had a similar reaction at first to that part of the article, but I thought the details about the hoops they had to jump through to maintain a relationship that would be accepted today (like the different phone lines on each side of the bed) gave some insight into the culture of the time.
posted by TedW at 6:53 AM on July 30, 2016 [6 favorites]
I had a similar reaction at first to that part of the article, but I thought the details about the hoops they had to jump through to maintain a relationship that would be accepted today (like the different phone lines on each side of the bed) gave some insight into the culture of the time.
posted by TedW at 6:53 AM on July 30, 2016 [6 favorites]
The $1 dollar for the patent isn't a sexist thing; the exact same deal applied to men.
posted by Mitheral at 7:01 AM on July 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Mitheral at 7:01 AM on July 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
We give the company a patent because the profits will incentivise it and produce more innovations; the company itself however, does not at all believe that the same reasoning works for its employees.
posted by Segundus at 7:37 AM on July 30, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Segundus at 7:37 AM on July 30, 2016 [6 favorites]
I got a patent at work, once. I was first author but the company owned the patent - it was in the terms of the employment contract I signed to work there.
They gave me $400, but it was officially a merit bonus, not a purchase of the patent. Because they already owned that.
I'm a woman but the same deal applied to men there.
posted by elizilla at 7:54 AM on July 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
They gave me $400, but it was officially a merit bonus, not a purchase of the patent. Because they already owned that.
I'm a woman but the same deal applied to men there.
posted by elizilla at 7:54 AM on July 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
Really interesting article, but I'm pretty sick of stories about female scientists and inventors being interspersed with their love stories.
Because Great Woman Visionary narratives are not even in their infancy.
Otherwise, interesting article. Thank you for the link.
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 8:18 AM on July 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
Because Great Woman Visionary narratives are not even in their infancy.
Otherwise, interesting article. Thank you for the link.
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 8:18 AM on July 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
Regardless of whether it is common corporate practice to have inventor-employees sign contracts giving their patents to their employers (assuming such an agreement was actually part of her employment contract), it doesn't change this:
"Ms. Crane brought her model to work and begged her managers to consider her idea.
They all said no.
...
But it turned out that one of the executives suggested her concept to his bosses at Organon’s parent company in the Netherlands — and the Dutch greenlighted the project. No one bothered to inform Ms. Crane.
In January 1968, Ms. Crane heard a rumor that her bosses were going forward with the home pregnancy test. She learned there was going to be a strategy meeting where men would discuss the design of the new product, and decided to crash it."
To me that looks like, had she not heard the rumours and stepped in, they would have happily failed to even acknowledge that she was the inventor. Again, not something that exclusively happens to women, but I think the sexism woven throughout this story (especially the reasoning behind initially rejecting the product idea & openly disparaging her design) is fairly blatant.
posted by Secret Sparrow at 8:28 AM on July 30, 2016 [13 favorites]
"Ms. Crane brought her model to work and begged her managers to consider her idea.
They all said no.
...
But it turned out that one of the executives suggested her concept to his bosses at Organon’s parent company in the Netherlands — and the Dutch greenlighted the project. No one bothered to inform Ms. Crane.
In January 1968, Ms. Crane heard a rumor that her bosses were going forward with the home pregnancy test. She learned there was going to be a strategy meeting where men would discuss the design of the new product, and decided to crash it."
To me that looks like, had she not heard the rumours and stepped in, they would have happily failed to even acknowledge that she was the inventor. Again, not something that exclusively happens to women, but I think the sexism woven throughout this story (especially the reasoning behind initially rejecting the product idea & openly disparaging her design) is fairly blatant.
posted by Secret Sparrow at 8:28 AM on July 30, 2016 [13 favorites]
They don't call them the Sexist Sixties and Seventies, for nothing. What? They don't call them that? God bless the clever Ms. Crane.
posted by Oyéah at 8:47 AM on July 30, 2016
posted by Oyéah at 8:47 AM on July 30, 2016
This is fascinating, gaspode. Thanks so much for posting it.
posted by zarq at 8:56 AM on July 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zarq at 8:56 AM on July 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
But they could have taken her ideas seriously and then given her a huge bonus.
This woman is a national hero and should be on the U.S. currency and should be given a medal to wear around every day. When we were trying to get pregnant with our first I used a home pregnancy test at least once a month for a year. It was literally like "I want to have a glass of wine tonight, better make sure I'm not pregnant."
I hope she writes a book!
posted by betsybetsy at 9:29 AM on July 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
This woman is a national hero and should be on the U.S. currency and should be given a medal to wear around every day. When we were trying to get pregnant with our first I used a home pregnancy test at least once a month for a year. It was literally like "I want to have a glass of wine tonight, better make sure I'm not pregnant."
I hope she writes a book!
posted by betsybetsy at 9:29 AM on July 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm kind of glad the romance got put in, actually, and am FASCINATED. Lived together in that era for 41 years without getting married? Was it a protest? I want to know more!
posted by corb at 10:27 AM on July 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 10:27 AM on July 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
This is such a great story. I love that they call her a "real-life Peggy Olson" within the article, as she is exactly the age Peggy would be now. I did find the love story element a little unnecessary but given the substance of her invention, it does add some interesting color.
posted by armadillo1224 at 11:01 AM on July 30, 2016
posted by armadillo1224 at 11:01 AM on July 30, 2016
Reading stories like this one and I can understand why Margaret Atwood wrote The Handmaid's Tale. That kind of dystopian future is not hard to imagine in our own world. Our history is filled with such sadness. I'm glad progress is being made. But much more to be done.
posted by Fizz at 11:44 AM on July 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Fizz at 11:44 AM on July 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
A employer owning their employees patents is inherently a recipe for the patented product never being built because the employer owns it and the employee cannot convince them to build and market it.
posted by jeffburdges at 12:01 PM on July 30, 2016
posted by jeffburdges at 12:01 PM on July 30, 2016
It sold at auction for just under USD 12,000. It's hard to believe that such an important item fetched so little, really.
Since she never got that dollar, I wonder if she could sue for royalties, since a term of the contract was breached or if too much time has passed.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 2:43 PM on July 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
Since she never got that dollar, I wonder if she could sue for royalties, since a term of the contract was breached or if too much time has passed.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 2:43 PM on July 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
In fairness, it's pretty standard practice for the entire culture to treat men like children and not let them make decisions or have information about their own bodies and health, and has been as long as men have been relegated to object status, you know, for the last thousand years or so. Oh wait, not that.
posted by bleep at 6:32 PM on July 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by bleep at 6:32 PM on July 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
One of the side things I love about this story is the bit about the two phone lines. People born post 2010 are just going to miss why this was exceptional. "Of course they each had a phone line, only the desperately poor, and neo-ludditte olds don't have their own phone line". It rare where I get a modern example of why it can be hard to understand literature written even just 100, 200, 300 years ago because you miss culture things the author assumes everyone knows.
posted by Mitheral at 8:05 PM on July 30, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 8:05 PM on July 30, 2016 [8 favorites]
They had me sign my rights away for $1,” Ms. Crane told me. She never did get that dollar.
Happily, her work on the application had required that she meet with Mr. Sturtevant.
Oh well, that's okay then.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:41 PM on July 31, 2016
Happily, her work on the application had required that she meet with Mr. Sturtevant.
Oh well, that's okay then.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:41 PM on July 31, 2016
> In fairness to Organon, it's pretty much universal corporate policy to do this to male inventor-employees, too.
Honestly, I had to read a couple of the comments like this before it clicked what y'all meant...and I'm a person who actually knows a tiny bit about IP policies after working at a university. I wish the article had clarified this.
But for the REST of the rank sexism she experienced, I want to scream. Nothing changes.
posted by desuetude at 7:40 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
Honestly, I had to read a couple of the comments like this before it clicked what y'all meant...and I'm a person who actually knows a tiny bit about IP policies after working at a university. I wish the article had clarified this.
But for the REST of the rank sexism she experienced, I want to scream. Nothing changes.
posted by desuetude at 7:40 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
I exaggerate. Of course things have gotten much, much better for women claiming their own accomplishments. But gods, not better enough.
posted by desuetude at 7:42 PM on August 1, 2016
posted by desuetude at 7:42 PM on August 1, 2016
Also on the "frightened thirteen year olds" bit, didn't anyone consider that being unsure if you were pregnant or not, being unable to visit a doctor to find out what's happening to your body, and having no options apart from carrying a baby to term might be frightening for a thirteen year old?
I mean it obviously didn't occur to anyone, probably because men let their emotions get in the way of rational thoughts when it comes to womens bodies.
posted by Ned G at 5:27 AM on August 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
I mean it obviously didn't occur to anyone, probably because men let their emotions get in the way of rational thoughts when it comes to womens bodies.
posted by Ned G at 5:27 AM on August 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
her managers seemed terrified by scenarios in which hysterical women killed themselves
I don't understand this part of the article. The implication seems to be that women who heard the news they were pregnant from their doctors would not kill themselves? What would stop that from happening? I do understand it was a much bigger deal back then for an unmarried woman to be pregnant. How exactly did hearing the news from a doctor or nurse help with this issue? Were the women locked up or kept under sedation or something to prevent them from killing themselves (that would be awful, but so much from the past is)? I feel like there's a cultural thing from the time I'm not getting here.
posted by yohko at 11:02 PM on August 4, 2016
I don't understand this part of the article. The implication seems to be that women who heard the news they were pregnant from their doctors would not kill themselves? What would stop that from happening? I do understand it was a much bigger deal back then for an unmarried woman to be pregnant. How exactly did hearing the news from a doctor or nurse help with this issue? Were the women locked up or kept under sedation or something to prevent them from killing themselves (that would be awful, but so much from the past is)? I feel like there's a cultural thing from the time I'm not getting here.
posted by yohko at 11:02 PM on August 4, 2016
yohko, it's a combination of the steadying influence of authority figures, and of simply not being alone to bear bad news -- if you react by catastrophizing and you're alone, there's no-one to see your face and bring you back to earth.
It's still a pretty common practice in some ways. When my gyn had to break the news of test results that showed I had cancer, she wouldn't tell me over the phone, she had me come in and suggested that I bring my partner or a friend to hold my hand.
posted by desuetude at 6:57 AM on August 5, 2016
It's still a pretty common practice in some ways. When my gyn had to break the news of test results that showed I had cancer, she wouldn't tell me over the phone, she had me come in and suggested that I bring my partner or a friend to hold my hand.
posted by desuetude at 6:57 AM on August 5, 2016
The icky paternalistic part is the idea the fear that women would, in droves, run off and commit suicide immediately. That's the medical establishment doing the catastrophizing.
posted by desuetude at 6:59 AM on August 5, 2016
posted by desuetude at 6:59 AM on August 5, 2016
When my gyn had to break the news of test results that showed I had cancer, she wouldn't tell me over the phone
Interesting. I just got a phone call, and that was it until my appointment with my surgeon. So it certainly doesn't always work that way.
posted by yohko at 7:47 PM on August 5, 2016
Interesting. I just got a phone call, and that was it until my appointment with my surgeon. So it certainly doesn't always work that way.
posted by yohko at 7:47 PM on August 5, 2016
Thank you for posting this, gaspode! I have been thinking about this off and on ever since it went up. (I don't mean to bring in OT conversation here, but I think within context of the current U.S. election cycle, and the discussion about women's rights now, this was an especially informative and enlightening article to read.)
Chaussette and the Pussy Cats, thanks for posting the auction page for the prototype. It was interesting to see Crane's comments there, too. I know they cover some of the same points from the NYT article but also I think there are some others that weren't specifically mentioned, e.g. this grar-inducing part that was bolded:
Also -- thanks, XMLicious -- today I listened to the podcast you linked above and it was neat to hear Crane speaking, as well as the other interviewees. It was a nice overview that did include some of the hurdles she faced, except I was disappointed by the line that said Organon's leadership overseas liked her idea and eventually sold her test -- not including the fact that Organon didn't tell even her they were using her idea, and that they didn't invite her (or her prototype) to the design meeting. Maybe the interviewers didn't know about those details at the time.
One of the quotes from the podcast that struck me was from Alexandra Lord, the chair of the History of Medicine and Science Collection at the Smithsonian Museum of American History:
Also in the NYT article, near the end:
I'm really glad that Margaret Crane saw Kennedy's original piece about home pregnancy testing, and that it prompted her to set the record straight. I'm really glad that Crane kept her prototype for all those years. (And I wonder if there's a story behind that, too -- did she have to fight to get it back in her possession? Had she thought about what to do with it before Kennedy's article? How close were we to a (probably more common and unfortunate) reality where the prototype would have ended up in a dust bin and we never would have heard of Margaret Crane?)
I'm really glad that the buyer of the auction was the Smithsonian's National Museum of American History, because it truly is an important invention and part of American history. And I'm really glad that Margaret Crane is finally getting the recognition she rightly deserves.
posted by rangefinder 1.4 at 5:36 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Chaussette and the Pussy Cats, thanks for posting the auction page for the prototype. It was interesting to see Crane's comments there, too. I know they cover some of the same points from the NYT article but also I think there are some others that weren't specifically mentioned, e.g. this grar-inducing part that was bolded:
Some objected strongly on moral grounds; that women had no right to be testing themselves for pregnancy; that it was linked to abortion and would bring the wrath of church hierarchies upon them.I wish these objections had been covered in the article too, because, ?! wow.
Also -- thanks, XMLicious -- today I listened to the podcast you linked above and it was neat to hear Crane speaking, as well as the other interviewees. It was a nice overview that did include some of the hurdles she faced, except I was disappointed by the line that said Organon's leadership overseas liked her idea and eventually sold her test -- not including the fact that Organon didn't tell even her they were using her idea, and that they didn't invite her (or her prototype) to the design meeting. Maybe the interviewers didn't know about those details at the time.
One of the quotes from the podcast that struck me was from Alexandra Lord, the chair of the History of Medicine and Science Collection at the Smithsonian Museum of American History:
It's a really interesting comment on how someone who's not a scientist -- Margaret Crane was a graphic designer -- can play a major role in getting a scientific product into the hands of the general public.Yes, and I also love that Crane's design didn't have any "flowers and frills" proposed by the male designers, as mentioned in the NYT article (I especially liked that it included her reaction: "Ms. Crane thought this was insane").
Also in the NYT article, near the end:
In 2012, I became part of her story when I wrote a short article for The New York Times Magazine about the history of home pregnancy testing, and didn’t mention Ms. Crane. At that point, she had yet to claim her due as a pioneer, and even some of her friends had no idea of the role she had played.There were multiple "ouch" moments as I read about Crane's story, but I supposed they'd all originate from decades ago, after the introduction of her original idea. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised that another "ouch" would happen because of an omission 30-40 years later, but I was.
I'm really glad that Margaret Crane saw Kennedy's original piece about home pregnancy testing, and that it prompted her to set the record straight. I'm really glad that Crane kept her prototype for all those years. (And I wonder if there's a story behind that, too -- did she have to fight to get it back in her possession? Had she thought about what to do with it before Kennedy's article? How close were we to a (probably more common and unfortunate) reality where the prototype would have ended up in a dust bin and we never would have heard of Margaret Crane?)
I'm really glad that the buyer of the auction was the Smithsonian's National Museum of American History, because it truly is an important invention and part of American history. And I'm really glad that Margaret Crane is finally getting the recognition she rightly deserves.
posted by rangefinder 1.4 at 5:36 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Something else to add before the thread closes: an article from the Smithsonian last fall, by Roger Catlin: The Unknown Designer of the First Home Pregnancy Test Is Finally Getting Her Due
From about the middle:
And the last line:
posted by rangefinder 1.4 at 8:09 PM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
From about the middle:
It was only when the New York Times Magazine ran a short “Who Made It?” feature on the home pregnancy test in 2012 and omitted her work, her niece urged her to make her story better known.Wow, we were indeed close to losing this knowledge to history. I'm happy that her niece helped persuade her to step forward.
“I still had the prototype. What was I going to do with it? It had to be somewhere. If somebody cleaned out my apartment after I died, they’d think what is this and throw it away.”
And the last line:
Crane, who at 75 still designs two days a week, says she’s happy the device has found its home in the Smithsonian collection. “It’s really thrilling,” she says.She still designs! (I hope it's because she still enjoys it, rather than because she has to.) It'd be interesting to see more of her work.
posted by rangefinder 1.4 at 8:09 PM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
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