...And they sit at the bar, and put bread in my jar...

August 7, 2016 5:47 AM

Over the course of its company history, Hampton Creek Inc. encountered many controversies in its attempt to market an eggless alternative to mayonnaise; from an intense battle with the Egg Lobby of the U.S. food industry to accusations from disgruntled staff concerning the startup's questionable research and work environment, comes the revelation that Hampton Creek instructed its own employees to purchase its product from store shelves in bulk quantities to drive up sales figures.

In its defense, Hampton Creek has officially claimed the purchases were intended as a form of quality control, though the company's founder conceded that brand building was a "secondary, but much less important" motive for the purchases.

posted by Smart Dalek (76 comments total)

The research puffery doesn't really bother me. It's just an advertising hook. The self-purchasing looks fraudulent, and really naive, but that's an issue for their investors and customers.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:05 AM on August 7, 2016

I'm actually curious about whether they broke any laws.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:17 AM on August 7, 2016

I'm actually curious about whether they broke any laws.

Well, if they used the increased "sales" as a data point to secure funding, or just to keep investors on-board, I'm pretty sure that would be seen as fraud by most courts.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:21 AM on August 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

The research puffery doesn't really bother me.

Claiming that your product is shelf-stable for six months but only testing it for a month bothers the hell out of me. What if someone had died?
posted by Itaxpica at 6:25 AM on August 7, 2016 [12 favorites]

For once, I would like people making vegan substitutes for me to eat and enjoy not be weird jerks. Sheesh.
posted by Kitteh at 6:30 AM on August 7, 2016 [21 favorites]

I remember something about Egg eating a "mayonegg" in Arrested Development.
posted by Meatbomb at 6:35 AM on August 7, 2016

It's 'Ann'...
posted by sexyrobot at 6:40 AM on August 7, 2016 [12 favorites]

So one of those Egg Council creeps got to you too, huh? YOU'D BETTER RUN, EGG!
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:44 AM on August 7, 2016 [10 favorites]

Claiming that your product is shelf-stable for six months but only testing it for a month bothers the hell out of me. What if someone had died?

Looking at the nutritional information it appears the oil is mostly unsaturated which doesn't bode well for resistance to rancidity. Of course if there's no oxygen...
posted by Talez at 6:44 AM on August 7, 2016

Can someone please explain the Piano Man quote? I'm apparently double-dense this morning.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:45 AM on August 7, 2016 [10 favorites]

Hey, it works for Republican candidates...
posted by Mchelly at 6:47 AM on August 7, 2016

It is a fascinating question: in the battle between Big Ag and the Silicon Valley Disrupter Bros, which side do you choose? Is death an option?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:47 AM on August 7, 2016 [20 favorites]

For what it's worth, I tried some Just Mayo.... thanks but no thanks: I'll stick to my probably-bad-for-me Kraft Real Mayo, it tastes better.
posted by easily confused at 6:53 AM on August 7, 2016

I love how this guy gets caught doing dick growth hacking but doesn't have a good cover story so he ends up appearing not only ethically curious but also cluelessly incompetent, a person who does quality assurance in the most expensive and laborious way possible ヘ（。□°）ヘ

Also, orchestrating this schmutz mayonnaise scheme just to persuade your investors that sales have increased by a measly few thousands? Hmm, maybe it's incompetent quality assurance after all.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 7:04 AM on August 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

Think I'll stick with Veganaise, which had been around for over a decade.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:09 AM on August 7, 2016 [7 favorites]

Wait...I have eaten like 60 jars of Just Mayo since it showed up on the shelves around here. Am I ethically compromised? It's just so tasty!
posted by mittens at 7:13 AM on August 7, 2016 [3 favorites]

That GIF of a jar using a spoon to eat the contents out of itself makes me never want to see Just Mayo on a store shelf ever in my life.
posted by hippybear at 7:13 AM on August 7, 2016 [10 favorites]

Mayonnaise is made with egg yolks. If it's not mayonnaise you can't call it mayonnaise, just like you can't sell tomato ketchup that has no tomatoes in it. If you want you want to sell salad cream, sell salad cream.
posted by Segundus at 7:19 AM on August 7, 2016 [16 favorites]

The whole point of mayo is that it's a vinegar in oil emulsion. The egg is only there to act as an emulsifier.
posted by Talez at 7:29 AM on August 7, 2016 [10 favorites]

The whole point of mayo is that it's a vinegar in oil emulsion.

Citation needed.
posted by hippybear at 7:30 AM on August 7, 2016 [15 favorites]

The part where they were secretly switching the second page of the employee's filed contracts to read "3 weeks" severance instead of "3 months" is a treat, too. On the other hand, maybe he's an organ donor.
posted by jenkinsEar at 7:33 AM on August 7, 2016 [10 favorites]

I love how this guy gets caught doing dick growth hacking...

Wait wait what?
posted by sexyrobot at 7:36 AM on August 7, 2016 [3 favorites]

secretly switching the second page of the employee's filed contracts

WTEverlovingF? There's no way I'm ever buying this guy's products.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:49 AM on August 7, 2016 [5 favorites]

"It's 'Ann'..."

Her?
posted by jonathanhughes at 7:52 AM on August 7, 2016 [7 favorites]

Coulter
posted by hippybear at 7:59 AM on August 7, 2016

The whole point of mayo is that it's a vinegar in oil emulsion. The egg is only there to act as an emulsifier.

FDA CFR Sec. 169.140 Mayonnaise.

(a) Description. Mayonnaise is the emulsified semisolid food prepared from vegetable oil(s), one or both of the acidifying ingredients specified in paragraph (b) of this section, and one or more of the egg yolk-containing ingredients specified in paragraph (c) of this section.

That's according to the legal FDA definition of Mayonnaise. They recently had a fight with JustMayo on this exact topic, and the work around was that they could call themselves Just Mayo if they also stated that they were egg-free, and have no references to "mayonnaise". In this context, "mayo" has a difference in that "mayonnaise" has a legal definition while mayo does not.

If you only needed to clear the "vinegar and oil emulsion" definition you presented, a lot of salad dressings would also be mayonnaise.
posted by Karaage at 8:18 AM on August 7, 2016 [17 favorites]

My guess is that most consumers don't care whether there's egg in it if it tastes like they think mayo is supposed to taste. I know I'm in that camp.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:20 AM on August 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ah, but it doesn't taste like mayo is supposed to taste, at least not in my experience. It tastes just a biiiit off. Which wouldn't be a huge deal, unless you buy it by accident thinking its regular mayo. Which I have. Because it says "mayo" on it and has a goddamn egg on the label.

In conclusion, fuck this stuff.
posted by Itaxpica at 8:24 AM on August 7, 2016 [23 favorites]

I think it's a passable replacement and I am glad there are improving options for our vegan and egg-allergic friends, but I definitely don't think it tastes like my conception of what mayonnaise should taste like.

The gold standard of which is Duke's Mayonnaise. Forever. I was a Best's/Hellman's man before moving out here but Duke' s beats them all.
posted by Karaage at 8:28 AM on August 7, 2016 [3 favorites]

most consumers don't care whether there's egg in it if it tastes like they think mayo is supposed to taste.

Yeah, but that's tragic if they never had real mayonnaise. It might help explain why most food in the USA, a country well capable of producing the finest food in the world, is bland, industrial-grade shit. Big portions, that'll make up for everything. Why do you people put up with this?
posted by Segundus at 8:28 AM on August 7, 2016 [7 favorites]

Vegenaise has been around forever and is fantastic.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:30 AM on August 7, 2016 [7 favorites]

I don't understand the moral case of vegans who are against eating chicken eggs.

Our current factory farming practices are of course a moral horrorshow, but e.g. keeping some happy chickens in your own sideyard coop producing eggs for you seems like the perfect win-win* case to me, and I think 'free range' egg products continues on this happy continuum a good bit.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:30 AM on August 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

I like Vegenaise better but Just Mayo is often cheaper than regular mayo, so that's cool. To my taste Just Mayo tastes like a different brand of mayonnaise, but not unlike mayonnaise. Although when I first tried it, I hadn't had egg mayonnaise in like three months.
posted by Gymnopedist at 8:32 AM on August 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

Why do you people put up with this?

I can count on one hand the number of people I know who have had actual homemade mayonnaise. I don't think most of them even know it can be made at home. Same with ketchup (catsup?).

The difference between the industrial mayonnaise and the homemade is the difference between a hand tinted photograph and Technicolor. The flavor is that much deeper and vibrant.

Nothing is stranger, however, than when mr hippybear made a small batch of homemade ketchup using only small yellow pear tomatoes. The flavor was awesome, but the color was oh so so wrong.
posted by hippybear at 8:33 AM on August 7, 2016 [4 favorites]

It might help explain why most food in the USA, a country well capable of producing the finest food in the world, is bland, industrial-grade shit. Big portions, that'll make up for everything. Why do you people put up with this?

Maybe because that's not how everyone eats, despite your stereotypical assumptions and painting a country of over 300 million people with a broad brush?
posted by Karaage at 8:35 AM on August 7, 2016 [30 favorites]

The people who are making this stuff are trying to compete with Hellmann's, so I'm not sure the happy chickens in your sideyard objection really applies here. And lots of us live in apartments where it would be hard and possibly illegal to keep chickens. These guys are the worst, but I don't really have an objection to faux-mayonnaise. I'm sure that we should all be eating artisanal mayo lovingly made from eggs produced by chickens that we raise ourselves, but that's not going to happen anytime soon, and in the meantime, some people are going to take shortcuts. Some people aren't going to consider them shortcuts. If we duly note your contempt, can we move on?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:37 AM on August 7, 2016 [8 favorites]

Yeah, I'm sorry about being intemperate; I just finished a rather good lunch.
posted by Segundus at 8:37 AM on August 7, 2016

I just finished a rather good lunch.

Did it involve mayonnaise? And was it properly sourced?
posted by hippybear at 8:41 AM on August 7, 2016

The research puffery doesn't really bother me.

It should.

Degrading people's faith in the integrity of research and regulation has some pretty dire consequences for society as a whole.
posted by srboisvert at 8:41 AM on August 7, 2016 [15 favorites]

I don't understand the moral case of vegans who are against eating chicken eggs.


basically producing them on any commercial scale requires doing things to birds that are objectionable to me and would be to other folks who care about animals, if they were aware (see: chick culling), and labels like "free range" mostly exist to make folks who care about animals not question or look into those practices (please research this stuff if you care it is so important). I don't think you ever get a particularly good result out of commodifying a living creature.

I'm a lot less concerned with the whole side yard chickens thing, although many folks I know do that have bought chickens from commercial hatcheries, plus I'm generally opposed to breeding more animals when so many homeless one could use our help

hope that helps clarify some, feel free to memail me if you have questions so this doesn't derail our mayo thread
posted by Gymnopedist at 8:49 AM on August 7, 2016 [10 favorites]

Wait, someone actually posited that vegans should keep "free range chickens" so we can ethically eat eggs??

Dudes, I do not miss eggs or egg-based foods that badly. (Or at all, actually.)

Another vote for Veganaise, though. Especially that chipotle flavour!
posted by Kitteh at 8:54 AM on August 7, 2016 [5 favorites]

Even though the name annoys me, I use Just Mayo all the time since most of our social circles include both vegans and people with egg allergies. It tastes slightly wrong to me, but then everything but Best Foods/Hellmann's tastes slightly wrong to me, including my own homemade mayo, which I can never get to exactly the right sweet/acidic balance.

Best Foods/Hellmann's/Unilever has a vegan product entering the market right now. I've been waiting for it to show up in LA for a couple of months (thanks to a YouTube commercial, otherwise I wouldn't have known about it. Truly, we are living in the future).
posted by Lyn Never at 8:55 AM on August 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

Mayonnaise is made with egg yolks. If it's not mayonnaise you can't call it mayonnaise, just like you can't sell tomato ketchup that has no tomatoes in it.

This was the subject of quite the false-advertising litigation saga.
posted by praemunire at 9:21 AM on August 7, 2016

Degrading people's faith in the integrity of research and regulation has some pretty dire consequences for society as a whole.

The Securities people probably have some thoughts about sales inflation, but I wonder what the FDA thinks about this.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 9:40 AM on August 7, 2016

Can someone please explain the Piano Man quote? I'm apparently double-dense this morning.
Well, mayo comes in jars, and mayo goes on bread, and the whole controversy makes me feel like drinking at a bar and then think "man, what am I doing here?", and ... nope, I've got nothing.
posted by Daily Alice at 10:06 AM on August 7, 2016 [4 favorites]

Vegenaise has been around forever and is fantastic.

I'm not even a vegetarian but I prefer vegenaise to mayo. the purple top (made with grapeseed oil, I think) tastes the best...
posted by ennui.bz at 11:03 AM on August 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

You are correct.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:08 AM on August 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

I sometimes make my own mayo and the best mayo I ever made was made with eggplant instead of an egg. I've had Just Mayo and it wasn't as good as my homemade. I prefer vegan mayo for anything that's being dressed and set out in the heat, like potato salad at a picnic.
posted by Foam Pants at 11:12 AM on August 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

keeping some happy chickens in your own sideyard coop producing eggs for you seems like the perfect win-win* case to me

What happens to all the boy chickens in this scenario?
posted by sarahw at 11:30 AM on August 7, 2016 [11 favorites]

Yeah, but that's tragic if they never had real mayonnaise. It might help explain why most food in the USA, a country well capable of producing the finest food in the world, is bland, industrial-grade shit. Big portions, that'll make up for everything. Why do you people put up with this?

You're right, real mayonnaise is great and it's fairly easy to whip up a small amount of the fresh stuff when needed, but I think that most people consider it a pantry staple and buy it in jars.

It would be easier to accept your lazy stereotype of American cookery if it came from literally anywhere in the world other than England, the world championship victim of lazy stereotyped bland/brown/boiled national cuisine.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 11:32 AM on August 7, 2016 [5 favorites]

I love homemade mayo, but it's a PITA to keep around and we just don't use it enough to justify it.

I do like Just Mayo, and I keep it on hand because it is shelf stable (or I THOUGHT IT WAS) and the ingredient list is decent and if I have a vegan friend over I can serve it to them. The reason I don't buy Kraft or Best Foods is because they're predominantly soybean oil, and no thanks.

Vegenaise is ridiculously expensive and hard to find at the stores I frequent. It's delicious, don't get me wrong, but it has the same problem as homemade -- I just don't use it enough, and inevitably I spend a lot of money and then end up throwing it out.
posted by offalark at 11:37 AM on August 7, 2016

I can count on one hand the number of people I know who have had actual homemade mayonnaise. I don't think most of them even know it can be made at home. Same with ketchup (catsup?).

I learned about this from an old movie where the cook was in the kitchen making catsup for their dinner later. Of course as soon as I saw that, it made total sense to me that it could be made at home: tomato, vinegar, spices. Mayonnaise makes me gag, but it's also just egg, vinegar, oil, spices. I've often wondered if making a batch at home, and seeing all the perfectly palatable things that go into it, would help me get over my aversion, but I've never actually cared quite enough to try it.
posted by not that girl at 11:51 AM on August 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

Lyn Never - if you mean Los Angeles LA and not Louisiana LA then I'm fairly certain I just saw the Hellman's Carefully Crafted at my local Vons in Pasadena. Wasn't even aware of what it was but the label made me stop.
posted by drewbage1847 at 12:17 PM on August 7, 2016

Degrading people's faith in the integrity of research and regulation has some pretty dire consequences for society as a whole.

Tell that to the House Science Committee.
posted by fedward at 12:24 PM on August 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ooh, next time I'm out I'll go to the swankier Vons than my usual and see if they have it.

For anyone wanting to make mayonnaise at home, Kenji Lopez-Alt's two minute mayo. With a stick blender, you can make it right in the jar you'll store it in, couldn't be easier.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:44 PM on August 7, 2016 [3 favorites]

I learned about this from an old movie where the cook was in the kitchen making catsup for their dinner later.


You're probably thinking of an early scene from the Judy Garland classic, Meet Me In St. Louis, and it was likely included to induce a feeling of nostalgia at a time when such things had begun to fall out of common practice. See also- homemade ice cream.

Interestingly, Mayonnaise is not featured or mentioned in the film at all.


This has been today's installment of Condiments of Hollywood's Golden Age.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:04 PM on August 7, 2016 [23 favorites]

The most important caveat about making mayo at home is that if you beat up good olive oil (like with a blender) it gets horribly bitter! This is not some nebulous shaken vs stirred food snob thing, it gets really bad. Use a neutral oil and then put some xvoo in at the end by hand if you want.
posted by ftm at 3:03 PM on August 7, 2016 [9 favorites]

"...'free range' egg products continues on this happy continuum a good bit."

Actually, the free-range label you might see on supermarket eggs is meaningless:

[Free-range] typically means a few small doors that lead to a screened-in porch with cement, dirt or a modicum of grass. And often, Kastel says, industrial fans that suck ammonia out of the building create "hurricane winds" through the small doorways, "and the birds don't really want to walk through that." Kastel claims that the vast majority of free-range birds in commercial egg facilities never actually go outside.

If you would like to buy happy eggs, your best bet is looking out for the Certified Humane label, which actually means something, or other trusted sources like neighbors or farmers you know.
posted by splitpeasoup at 3:10 PM on August 7, 2016 [6 favorites]

ftm, wow, I had no idea! This explains so much. Thanks!
posted by instamatic at 4:18 PM on August 7, 2016

Worth mentioning that in Europe, and to a lesser extent, Australia, free range eggs mean that the hens that laid them actually do walk around outside. And in the UK, Hellman's is made with free range eggs.
posted by ambrosen at 4:40 PM on August 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

Well, the title did put ugly earworms in my head. A shorter walk of a tilte might have been something like "The timeline of chicken v. egg matters not."

Mayonnaise makes me gag, but it's also just egg, vinegar, oil, spices. I've often wondered if making a batch at home, and seeing all the perfectly palatable things that go into it, would help me get over my aversion, but I've never actually cared quite enough to try it.

I sidestepped my whole mayo-gag problem a few years back by using hummus instead.
posted by tilde at 7:15 PM on August 7, 2016

I'm a fan of Just Mayo. Well, the taste. I'm not so sure I like the company after all this. I like the taste better than veganaise. And I'm waaaaaay too lazy to make my own.
posted by greermahoney at 7:23 PM on August 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

if mayonnaise makes you gag, what other common similar condiments do or don't make you gag? Ranch dressing? French onion dip? What is it about mayonnaise that makes you gag?

I find that reaction to be very alien to my experience, but I know several people who react the same way, and I'm curious about what and why. I mean, when I was in Germany in the 80s I was using mayonnaise on fries like I'd use ketchup here. So what is that reaction about?
posted by hippybear at 7:27 PM on August 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ranch, mayo, thousand island, Alfredo, Hollandaise. I can't do eggs either -- so I dunno. Just avoid most cream or egg sauces and dressings now. First eggs, about six years later mayo, and a couple years after that most cream sauces.

I can do some sour cream dips in small amounts, but I'm finding a growing number of foods make me slightly wheezy all the time so I have an epipen and choose my meals carefully.
posted by tilde at 7:42 PM on August 7, 2016

isn't a food allergy different from a gag reaction?
posted by hippybear at 7:56 PM on August 7, 2016

Usually, yeah.
posted by kafziel at 8:11 PM on August 7, 2016

This whole story is gross. You would think a vegan company would be really ethical - but, no, they're worse. Not testing for the full six months? Buying their own products? Switching out the employee contracts?? Making contractors pay taxes on money to buy the products??? Is that even legal?
posted by gt2 at 10:33 PM on August 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

If you want to make a vegan mayo, don't - make toum instead. It's like mayo's sassy cousin and it will light your shit up.

Keeps for ages in the fridge, assuming you don't slather it on everything. The trick is to use a neutral flavour oil and to add it sloooooowwwwwllly.
posted by ninazer0 at 10:58 PM on August 7, 2016 [4 favorites]

My favorite mayo is Ojai Cook's Lemonaise Light (they also make a non Light version, but dang does that light version taste good for not being as fat-dense as regular mayo).

It's got a zip of Dijon and lemon flavor in it, so maybe not for everyone, but I love it. They don't market it as vegan but it happens to not contain eggs, so it is.
posted by Juliet Banana at 12:49 AM on August 8, 2016

ninazer0: "Keeps for ages in the fridge, assuming you don't slather it on everything. "

I see what you did there.
posted by chavenet at 1:25 AM on August 8, 2016

For anyone wanting to make mayonnaise at home, Kenji Lopez-Alt's two minute mayo. With a stick blender, you can make it right in the jar you'll store it in, couldn't be easier.

For anyone wanting to make vegan mayo at home (for whatever reason; me, I'm allergic to eggs) Kenji has a recent vegan variant of the two minute mayo, using chickpea water (aquafaba), here.
posted by Omission at 4:06 AM on August 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Got it! Got it, got it.

Billy Joel's "Just the Way you Are" was covered by Piolo Pascual, who also covered Eraserheads' "With a Smile."

As it turns out, Eraserheads' song "Liaga" was also covered by... wait for it... Mayonnaise!

The key was figuring out the Filipino connection. or possibly using the previously linked six degrees of music separation thingie.
posted by Naberius at 7:26 AM on August 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

D'oh. The song was actually "Ligaya," not "Liaga." "Ligaya."

My apologies to the members of Eraserheads.

And to, well, Mayonnaise.
posted by Naberius at 10:44 AM on August 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

if mayonnaise makes you gag, what other common similar condiments do or don't make you gag? Ranch dressing? French onion dip? What is it about mayonnaise that makes you gag?

It did when I was a kid, and that was almost 100% due to the consistency. Though oddly enough ketchup, which has a very similar consistency, was fine.

I have since turned around on mayo completely.
posted by Itaxpica at 2:36 PM on August 8, 2016

Yeah I started out as gag but going back as an adult I suspect an allergy has shown up at this point. Actually managed to get some paleo egg "bread" down and had bad stomach pains. Which sucks because eggs are great, nutritionally.
posted by tilde at 4:32 AM on August 9, 2016

Now the Feds Are Investigating the Shady Vegan-Mayo Buyback Program
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:32 PM on August 21, 2016