Good News For Oregonians - Stoned Sex Beats Drunk Sex
August 8, 2016 7:58 AM Subscribe
"How will legal marijuana affect our children? Our jobs? Our relationships? Or how about our sex lives? That latter question inspired a research project by Joseph Palamar and his colleagues at New York University. "Since the landscape is changing, and marijuana continues to increase in popularity, research is needed to continue to examine if and how marijuana use may influence risk for unsafe sexual behavior," they write in the July issue of the journal Archives of Sexual Behavior." [sl-wapo]
Duh?
posted by praemunire at 8:19 AM on August 8, 2016 [10 favorites]
My dude can find it hard to concentrate enough to get off when he's high. For me, it's a super intensifier. I don't do the two things at the same time very often for some reason, but the stars aligned last night and I had an easily-top-five-of-all-time orgasm (maybe even the best ever? hard to say). I was basically destroyed for 30mins after. Good thing I didn't have to do anything except go to sleep.
Also: I assume in Oregon they're oregasms.
posted by terretu at 8:35 AM on August 8, 2016 [22 favorites]
Also: I assume in Oregon they're oregasms.
posted by terretu at 8:35 AM on August 8, 2016 [22 favorites]
4. The pleasure is usually better on marijuana.
Sometimes drastically better! With certain 'body high' strains, the pleasure has been so intense and total that I've convulsed and laughed uncontrollably for several minutes afterward. It's so much different than my normal response that I've wondered if there might be something wrong with my normal sensitivity.
posted by naju at 8:36 AM on August 8, 2016 [6 favorites]
Sometimes drastically better! With certain 'body high' strains, the pleasure has been so intense and total that I've convulsed and laughed uncontrollably for several minutes afterward. It's so much different than my normal response that I've wondered if there might be something wrong with my normal sensitivity.
posted by naju at 8:36 AM on August 8, 2016 [6 favorites]
Duh?
Well, the effects of alcohol on sex have been well known for centuries, but the Bard gave us no soliloquies on the joys of sex while high to my knowledge.
posted by nubs at 8:39 AM on August 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well, the effects of alcohol on sex have been well known for centuries, but the Bard gave us no soliloquies on the joys of sex while high to my knowledge.
posted by nubs at 8:39 AM on August 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maybe a little TMI, but we regularly use edibles, as well as a cannabis-infused lubricant. Actually I don't because I find I lose focus, but for my wife it apparently really enhances the experience.
posted by My Dad at 8:44 AM on August 8, 2016
posted by My Dad at 8:44 AM on August 8, 2016
Oregasms. That's funnier than it should be, well done.
Also, another vote for the enhancement effect, definitely.
posted by LooseFilter at 8:46 AM on August 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also, another vote for the enhancement effect, definitely.
posted by LooseFilter at 8:46 AM on August 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
You guys are making me look forward to legalization here in Canada.
posted by nubs at 8:52 AM on August 8, 2016
posted by nubs at 8:52 AM on August 8, 2016
You guys are making me look forward to legalization here in Canada.
While reading one of the gigathreads about the US election, I found myself scoping out some info about previous elections on Wikipedia. I learned that the sixth-place-in-the-popular-vote People's Party in 1972:
*Of course, I am Canadian. YMMV.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:58 AM on August 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
While reading one of the gigathreads about the US election, I found myself scoping out some info about previous elections on Wikipedia. I learned that the sixth-place-in-the-popular-vote People's Party in 1972:
The People's Party ran Dr. Benjamin Spock for president and Julius Hobson for vice president in the 1972 U.S. presidential election. The party platform included free medical care, legalized abortion, legalized marijuana, a guaranteed minimum wage, the withdrawal of American troops from all foreign countries,[1] a guaranteed maximum wage, and promoting toleration of homosexuality.This platform was sufficient to net them not quite as many votes as the Socialist Workers' Party 44 years ago and is pretty much mainstream now*. I find myself pondering what the issues will be in 2060.
*Of course, I am Canadian. YMMV.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:58 AM on August 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
Maybe a little TMI...
posted by My Dad at 11:44 AM on August 8 [+] [!]
Definitely eponysterical.
posted by McCoy Pauley at 9:06 AM on August 8, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by My Dad at 11:44 AM on August 8 [+] [!]
Definitely eponysterical.
posted by McCoy Pauley at 9:06 AM on August 8, 2016 [10 favorites]
From the ages on 18-24 I was a YUGE stoner burnout. Like, wake and bake all the way to bedtime I would be stupid high. Then I started having *really* bad anxiety and panic attacks in my mid-20's so I had to give it up.
So last week I was in portland for 6 days and my wife, who's been there all summer says "Baby, I've been going to this one dispensary and I asked them about your anxiety, they recommended something high in CBD's for you..."
So uh, last week I'm in portland and we get high one evening on a strain that's got a lot of CBD right?
All's I gotta say is hell yeah, this FPP is QFMFT.
Sex life and love is unreal good when the weed's are legal and you can talk to someone who knows exactly what you need. Now I'm back in Texas bummed the hell out cause everything here is "you get what you get" and I run too much of a risk of suffering massive debilitating panic attacks if I intake the wrong stuff so it's back to the pot desert for me.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:08 AM on August 8, 2016 [10 favorites]
So last week I was in portland for 6 days and my wife, who's been there all summer says "Baby, I've been going to this one dispensary and I asked them about your anxiety, they recommended something high in CBD's for you..."
So uh, last week I'm in portland and we get high one evening on a strain that's got a lot of CBD right?
All's I gotta say is hell yeah, this FPP is QFMFT.
Sex life and love is unreal good when the weed's are legal and you can talk to someone who knows exactly what you need. Now I'm back in Texas bummed the hell out cause everything here is "you get what you get" and I run too much of a risk of suffering massive debilitating panic attacks if I intake the wrong stuff so it's back to the pot desert for me.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:08 AM on August 8, 2016 [10 favorites]
alcohol basically makes everything worse, and the only reason people tolerate that is, they are drunk
posted by thelonius at 9:09 AM on August 8, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 9:09 AM on August 8, 2016 [9 favorites]
naju: "4. The pleasure is usually better on marijuana.
Sometimes drastically better! With certain 'body high' strains, the pleasure has been so intense and total that I've convulsed and laughed uncontrollably for several minutes afterward. It's so much different than my normal response that I've wondered if there might be something wrong with my normal sensitivity."
I once had some Northern Lights back in the day, and was so stoned that I made out with a Hostess Cupcake. The pleasure was that intense. One other time, I made out with a wonderfully succulent plum, it's veiny flesh throbbing with invitation after the first bite and juices exploded in my mouth.
Yeah pot can intensify things intensely in ways that alcohol only dulls.
posted by symbioid at 9:55 AM on August 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sometimes drastically better! With certain 'body high' strains, the pleasure has been so intense and total that I've convulsed and laughed uncontrollably for several minutes afterward. It's so much different than my normal response that I've wondered if there might be something wrong with my normal sensitivity."
I once had some Northern Lights back in the day, and was so stoned that I made out with a Hostess Cupcake. The pleasure was that intense. One other time, I made out with a wonderfully succulent plum, it's veiny flesh throbbing with invitation after the first bite and juices exploded in my mouth.
Yeah pot can intensify things intensely in ways that alcohol only dulls.
posted by symbioid at 9:55 AM on August 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
(My forecast about all this legalization: the real short-term culture changer will be when baby boomers--who are turning 65 at a rate of 10,000 per day through 2025--discover en masse that pot is the perfect retirement drug: analgesic, anti-inflammatory, mood enhancer, sensory perception enhancer, appetite stimulant, mild after-effects, etc. etc. This story, about people discovering how excellent sex while stoned can be, is a piece of a larger tapestry of growing awareness that marijuana is indeed the superior soft intoxicant. I expect that boomers have this one last fundamental cultural shift that their critical mass will push over the top.)
posted by LooseFilter at 10:10 AM on August 8, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by LooseFilter at 10:10 AM on August 8, 2016 [15 favorites]
discover en masse that pot is the perfect retirement drug: analgesic, anti-inflammatory, mood enhancer, sensory perception enhancer, appetite stimulant, mild after-effects, etc. etc.
My etc, etc, etc is not something that would be considered a desirable effect :-(
I wish my broken brain could handle being high on something other than a super-specific and highly researched, not always available strains.
NGL, I get really envious of people who can use pot without worrying about having completely debilitating reactions to getting high. Especially because I was able to *really* enjoy it for about 7 years before the horrible and terrible reactions started, so I remember what that was like and that is a hard thing to let go of. Going to social gatherings and hanging out with everyone who can enjoy it and watching people do it while I pass is a bit of a bummer, to be fucking sure.
posted by Annika Cicada at 11:22 AM on August 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
My etc, etc, etc is not something that would be considered a desirable effect :-(
I wish my broken brain could handle being high on something other than a super-specific and highly researched, not always available strains.
NGL, I get really envious of people who can use pot without worrying about having completely debilitating reactions to getting high. Especially because I was able to *really* enjoy it for about 7 years before the horrible and terrible reactions started, so I remember what that was like and that is a hard thing to let go of. Going to social gatherings and hanging out with everyone who can enjoy it and watching people do it while I pass is a bit of a bummer, to be fucking sure.
posted by Annika Cicada at 11:22 AM on August 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
The lack of slang regarding sexual performance on marijuana seems like this is yet another duh result.
posted by vuron at 11:29 AM on August 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by vuron at 11:29 AM on August 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
True but it's still good to take something that "everyone knows" and be able to confirm scientifically that it's true, maybe quantify it, and try to dig into the cause behind the effect.
Studies like this are, among many many others, one of the potential benefits of full legalization. Research like this can be applied to the products and then we get better cannabis through science!
posted by VTX at 12:50 PM on August 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Studies like this are, among many many others, one of the potential benefits of full legalization. Research like this can be applied to the products and then we get better cannabis through science!
posted by VTX at 12:50 PM on August 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
My etc, etc, etc is not something that would be considered a desirable effect :-(
Very sorry to hear this, and one of my close friends is similar, I suspect. Fortunately, we live in California where he can get the specific products that work well for him. I expect this will be more and more true with expanding legalization.
Research like this can be applied to the products and then we get better cannabis through science!
This is happening so quickly here, pre-full legalization, with mostly anecdotal guidance, that the mind reels at what will come to market following November's vote (which I assume will pass, given current polling at ~60% for, which is amazing considering that no one is talking about it, it's just a foregone conclusion and who can even think about it with all the TRUMP!).
Annika Cicada, I expect you're reacting negatively to the very high levels of THC in pot these days, boosted by growers without consideration of the important balancing effect of CBD, the other main active cannabinoid. These days in dispensaries, you can get strains with wildly high THC, balanced strains, and indicas with boosted CBD. Concentrates often have lab analysis results on the box, and you can get pre-loaded cartridges containing CO2-extracted oil with a 2:1 THC:CBD ratio, or a more typical ~20:1, and so on. There are lines of products (food, topicals) that have almost no THC and very high CBD, used by folks for MS, seizures (including for children), and much more. And this is all without extensive scientific research leading the way.
There is a multi-billion-dollar market absolutely ready to burst forth here in California, and it will be the tidal wave that leads full national legalization. (Even Texas: there will just be too much money on the table to say no--I live in the middle of the most productive agricultural region in the world, and reasonable estimates hold that, despite that amazing, legal agriculture industry, marijuana is California's largest cash crop by far. So I hope that you will soon be able to head down to your local dispensary and pick up, say, something like this, which I expect would work very well for you. It's my aforementioned friend's favorite.)
I have also seen that longer-term, heavy pot use sometimes turns into the sensitivity and reactions you describe. Marijuana is a mild psychedelic in terms of its chemical interaction with the brain, and it seems that saturation over a long period can lead to frazzled responses that are very undesirable experiences for the individual. Dialing down the psychoactive chemical, THC, is often a good solution for those who wish to continue using marijuana for the (often quite significant) palliative effects of CBD.
posted by LooseFilter at 2:34 PM on August 8, 2016 [7 favorites]
Very sorry to hear this, and one of my close friends is similar, I suspect. Fortunately, we live in California where he can get the specific products that work well for him. I expect this will be more and more true with expanding legalization.
Research like this can be applied to the products and then we get better cannabis through science!
This is happening so quickly here, pre-full legalization, with mostly anecdotal guidance, that the mind reels at what will come to market following November's vote (which I assume will pass, given current polling at ~60% for, which is amazing considering that no one is talking about it, it's just a foregone conclusion and who can even think about it with all the TRUMP!).
Annika Cicada, I expect you're reacting negatively to the very high levels of THC in pot these days, boosted by growers without consideration of the important balancing effect of CBD, the other main active cannabinoid. These days in dispensaries, you can get strains with wildly high THC, balanced strains, and indicas with boosted CBD. Concentrates often have lab analysis results on the box, and you can get pre-loaded cartridges containing CO2-extracted oil with a 2:1 THC:CBD ratio, or a more typical ~20:1, and so on. There are lines of products (food, topicals) that have almost no THC and very high CBD, used by folks for MS, seizures (including for children), and much more. And this is all without extensive scientific research leading the way.
There is a multi-billion-dollar market absolutely ready to burst forth here in California, and it will be the tidal wave that leads full national legalization. (Even Texas: there will just be too much money on the table to say no--I live in the middle of the most productive agricultural region in the world, and reasonable estimates hold that, despite that amazing, legal agriculture industry, marijuana is California's largest cash crop by far. So I hope that you will soon be able to head down to your local dispensary and pick up, say, something like this, which I expect would work very well for you. It's my aforementioned friend's favorite.)
I have also seen that longer-term, heavy pot use sometimes turns into the sensitivity and reactions you describe. Marijuana is a mild psychedelic in terms of its chemical interaction with the brain, and it seems that saturation over a long period can lead to frazzled responses that are very undesirable experiences for the individual. Dialing down the psychoactive chemical, THC, is often a good solution for those who wish to continue using marijuana for the (often quite significant) palliative effects of CBD.
posted by LooseFilter at 2:34 PM on August 8, 2016 [7 favorites]
Thank you loose filter. I've long felt the high THC strains are kinda craft beer folks who make stupid-hopped beer. I've been begging for a "session weed" for a long time now and I think the more balanced strain could potentially help with depression (if the root of depression is inflammation) and potentially reduce my anxiety. But I have to be way careful these days.
I do sometimes wonder if maybe I just smoked too damn much weed in my 20's though and now I'm a hopeless case hahahaha.
posted by Annika Cicada at 2:53 PM on August 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
I do sometimes wonder if maybe I just smoked too damn much weed in my 20's though and now I'm a hopeless case hahahaha.
posted by Annika Cicada at 2:53 PM on August 8, 2016 [3 favorites]
LooseFilter: Please feel free to expand on your last two paragraphs (and stop writing in very small letters please.)
posted by marienbad at 3:14 PM on August 8, 2016
posted by marienbad at 3:14 PM on August 8, 2016
I spent an hour or so in a local dispensary with visiting relatives that was more refined and polished inside than a high-end home audio store. Beautiful display cases, chrome, reclaimed wood, informative labels, LCD screens displaying various informative bits of info and a staff of amazing and helpful people. It was amazing. As a doctor and an aging person, and an Oregonian, it's hard not to be excited and proud, and I really don't even use cannabis. But knowing the dam is breaking and we are finally on the brink of really sorting out how the various elements work together to address physical maladies (or just as well magnify physical pleasures) is awesome. And yeah, the average person I saw in there, and who uses it in my practice, is probably well past 50.
posted by docpops at 3:31 PM on August 8, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by docpops at 3:31 PM on August 8, 2016 [8 favorites]
Mileage will vary, I suppose – but I'll take stoned sex over drunk sex any day. Herb turns a nice meal or snack into an exquisite, epicurean delicacy that you just want to devour – for me, it combines with sex in a similar way. And if you're with someone who reacts in a similar way, then you feed off of their excitement and vice versa, and damn, I'll stop before this gets to be TMI.
Oh right, and public safety and science and stuff. I guess that's cool too.
session weed
Heh. Makes me think of Louis CK's bit about getting (too) high: "I didn't know they'd been working on this shit like it's the cure for cancer". It definitely seems like weed has gotten stronger over the last 20 years. And then you have stuff like dabbing and concentrates and BHO, which just seems unnecessary to me. I've never understood the type of drug user (and I'm including alcohol here) whose sole goal is to get as wrecked as possible – but since they are by definition the heaviest users, I guess it's inevitable that the industry will cater to them.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:52 PM on August 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
Oh right, and public safety and science and stuff. I guess that's cool too.
session weed
Heh. Makes me think of Louis CK's bit about getting (too) high: "I didn't know they'd been working on this shit like it's the cure for cancer". It definitely seems like weed has gotten stronger over the last 20 years. And then you have stuff like dabbing and concentrates and BHO, which just seems unnecessary to me. I've never understood the type of drug user (and I'm including alcohol here) whose sole goal is to get as wrecked as possible – but since they are by definition the heaviest users, I guess it's inevitable that the industry will cater to them.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:52 PM on August 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
The current exhibition Altered State: Marijuana in California at the Oakland Museum has an interesting exhibit illustrating differences between the "dispensary" orientation and the "pot shop" orientation. The whole show is worth seeing if you're in the area and in a museum-going mood.
posted by Lexica at 6:18 PM on August 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Lexica at 6:18 PM on August 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
By the way, in case you missed it: the DEA is currently considering whether to remove marijuana from Schedule I, and is expected to make a decision soon.
Schedule I is the strictest classification of illegal drugs, reserved for substances with a high potential for abuse, no currently accepted medical use, and a lack of "accepted safety". (For reference, heroin is a Schedule I substance. Cocaine, methamphetamines, PCP, and many opioids are Schedule II. Ketamine is Schedule III. Alcohol, which is universally recognized as more physically and socially harmful than herb, isn't scheduled at all. It's completely bananas for marijuana to be on Schedule I.)
Rescheduling weed would be a big step toward reform – it would open the door for more research and medical use, and would be the first significant move toward relaxing restrictions on the federal level.
Also: in November, California (largest economy in the US!), Nevada, and Massachusetts will vote on initiatives to legalize recreational marijuana. The California initiative looks likely to pass. Polls are all over the place for Massachusetts, but it looks like it has a fighting chance. Several other states will be voting on medical marijuana initiatives.
If the California and Nevada initiatives pass, then there will be a huge chunk of the western United States where recreational weed is legal. At some point, the feds will be forced to act one way or the other. Commercially grown weed from recreational states is already leaking freely across state borders into the gray market – nationwide legalization would simply recognize the reality that already exists.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:53 PM on August 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
Schedule I is the strictest classification of illegal drugs, reserved for substances with a high potential for abuse, no currently accepted medical use, and a lack of "accepted safety". (For reference, heroin is a Schedule I substance. Cocaine, methamphetamines, PCP, and many opioids are Schedule II. Ketamine is Schedule III. Alcohol, which is universally recognized as more physically and socially harmful than herb, isn't scheduled at all. It's completely bananas for marijuana to be on Schedule I.)
Rescheduling weed would be a big step toward reform – it would open the door for more research and medical use, and would be the first significant move toward relaxing restrictions on the federal level.
Also: in November, California (largest economy in the US!), Nevada, and Massachusetts will vote on initiatives to legalize recreational marijuana. The California initiative looks likely to pass. Polls are all over the place for Massachusetts, but it looks like it has a fighting chance. Several other states will be voting on medical marijuana initiatives.
If the California and Nevada initiatives pass, then there will be a huge chunk of the western United States where recreational weed is legal. At some point, the feds will be forced to act one way or the other. Commercially grown weed from recreational states is already leaking freely across state borders into the gray market – nationwide legalization would simply recognize the reality that already exists.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:53 PM on August 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
Can definitely concur with the Louie CK and Annika Cicada sentiments above about strength. For me, the inability to moderate weed consumption is a huge turnoff. Alcohol, I know I can have a few beers and it's fine. With pot, which I haven't touched in years and wouldn't unless I could be sure it's ethically sourced (i.e. no one was sold into slavery or their family murdered to drive it across the border to me here in the US) and also not weapons grade, Gregor Mendel in a basement GMO stuff (what are these crystals and orange hairs?!), there's no similar guarantee. Need a session bud that permits something akin to the "bibere usque ad hilaritatem" of St Thomas.
So what I'm saying is that there are miles to go before I weed. /cracks open a Bud Light
posted by resurrexit at 7:53 PM on August 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
So what I'm saying is that there are miles to go before I weed. /cracks open a Bud Light
posted by resurrexit at 7:53 PM on August 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
resurrexit, have you ever tried vaporizing? Makes it easier to control the dose (and has many other benefits besides).
posted by escape from the potato planet at 8:01 PM on August 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by escape from the potato planet at 8:01 PM on August 8, 2016 [2 favorites]
Seconding vaporizers. You can really titrate and regulate for small doses in a way you never could before.
posted by naju at 8:13 PM on August 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by naju at 8:13 PM on August 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Horses:cars::smoking:vaporizers
I'm not saying that riding horses is stupid by comparison, plenty of people still enjoy riding horses and that's fine. But don't try to tell me that it's a superior form of transportation.
FWIW, I read somewhere that THC breaks down over time into CBDs. So in theory, if a strain had too much THC for you to enjoy it, you could just store it someplace for a while (how long is anyone's guess) and it will turn itself into a more balanced strain.
There is also a benefit to concentrates in that, since they are so pure and often made in a lab, you know precisely how much you're consuming. The problem is that they make it so easy for that amount to be "a fuck-ton". With plant material, the same one gram can vary even between buds on the same plant.
posted by VTX at 5:50 AM on August 9, 2016
I'm not saying that riding horses is stupid by comparison, plenty of people still enjoy riding horses and that's fine. But don't try to tell me that it's a superior form of transportation.
FWIW, I read somewhere that THC breaks down over time into CBDs. So in theory, if a strain had too much THC for you to enjoy it, you could just store it someplace for a while (how long is anyone's guess) and it will turn itself into a more balanced strain.
There is also a benefit to concentrates in that, since they are so pure and often made in a lab, you know precisely how much you're consuming. The problem is that they make it so easy for that amount to be "a fuck-ton". With plant material, the same one gram can vary even between buds on the same plant.
posted by VTX at 5:50 AM on August 9, 2016
I want a session weed that I can roll into a blunt. Vaporizors and dabs are fun as hell, but I want a session weed too.
posted by Annika Cicada at 7:18 AM on August 9, 2016
posted by Annika Cicada at 7:18 AM on August 9, 2016
What I like about my Arizer EQ is that it comes with both a whip and a balloon (the popular Volcano only comes with a balloon) and they're fun to pass around, if that's what you're looking for. You can also keep it on for hours and just hit it when you want.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:21 PM on August 9, 2016
posted by Room 641-A at 3:21 PM on August 9, 2016
Ha, sorry about the small type, all. Didn't want those comments to be a derail. Regarding California's initiative this fall, it's remarkable to me--as I mentioned--for two main reasons: how unremarkable it seems to be to everyone, and how surprising that is considering the scale of what's about to happen. Generally in the U.S., culturally and politically, things seem to happen in California first. That's often perceived as some sort of influence or cachet that the state may have within the nation, but really it's just numbers: California's population is almost 40 million people, which means that around one out of every eight Americans lives in this state. Even if things don't happen here first (economically we certainly seem to lead each phase of health or disaster), it often seems to me that changes don't reach critical mass until they happen here.
So with marijuana legalization, Colorado (and WA, OR and others) have kind of been pilot programs to see if it could work: would people vote for it; how will it be reified in terms of policy, law, enforcement, revenue management/restrictions; so on. (Though we had an initiative here in 2010, it was bad legislation and most knew it, so it was a big 'no' vote that had little to do with the primary question of legalization.) Seeing it work in smaller states, I think, has given a large majority of voters here confidence to vote for the much-better-written initiative we have on the ballot this time. What is fascinating is just how much of a yawn and non-issue it is--as I mentioned before, it really seems to be a foregone conclusion, which is shocking to me not because OMG WE'RE GONNA HAVE LEGAL WEED but because I really think most people have little sense of how huge the cultural and economic impacts are going to be.
Culturally, as I said, when baby boomers discover this mild-to-moderate soft intoxicant with its delightfully minimal negative side effects, and beneficial and enjoyable primary effects, it will be a tidal wave, likely the last that the boomers will trigger. (Speaking of critical mass, though I have long been weary of living in the baby boomer's shadow and world, their numbers as a generation have compelled us to confront difficult questions--good and bad--for decades, and on balance I have to admit that we are the better for it, and I just sense they're not done yet.) People will not, en masse, suddenly want to start smoking (tobacco or weed, smoking a plant is still smoking a plant, and lots of people quite reasonably have little interest in that), edibles won't suddenly become more mild and manageable (seriously people: edibles are advanced weed-taking); and people won't want to spend a ton on gadgets and kits to vaporize bud, most likely; but the medical market is already responding in really interesting ways.
For those who are OK smoking, there are some, um, thoroughly-made prerolls that are high quality product and eliminate the need to handle creating your own joints, or buying a pipe, or etc. The product type I expect will be the one to really entice people, though, especially older folks, will be pre-loaded, disposable cartridges containing concentrate that is extracted cleanly and often infused with other plant oils for flavor and woo. Those just screw onto a battery and are ready to go: press a button, inhale gently, and room temperature vapor is all that is ingested. So the form factor is super convenient and low impact (and almost no--or no--odor at all), but what really makes it appealing is the specificity of product: potency is indicated on the box, consistent because of controlled extraction processes, including breakdown for primary cannabinoids THC, CBD, and CBN, which makes it fairly easy for a minimally-informed consumer to make a good choice (especially with the guidance of a decent budtender) for desired medical or recreational effects.
For me, my own fascination is on this side of it, the cultural stuff, and while I think the boomers will be a big part of it, everyone else will be too, and I just could not be more interested to see how it all shakes out. I am hopeful it will be a net positive in many ways material and human. But, also as I mentioned before, the economic side will be truly staggering, and the most fast-motion aspect of all these changes. I was first made aware of the scale of the black market marijuana economy by this book, and the legal marijuana industry in California generated $2.7 billion in sales in 2015, and is expected to be well north of $6 billion by 2020 if legalization is ratified this fall (enacted 2018). With a current proposed state tax of 15%, $6 billion means around $900 million of new tax revenue annually. That's a lot of new revenue, even for a state this big.
So these are some of the reasons I'm such an avid culture-watcher on this issue (or set of issues, really). Given the scale of California as a state--the number of people, size of economy, and size of this industry specifically--I expect that CA state legalization will be the tipping point for full, national legalization within a few years (<10 likely, unless the DEA loses its mind and does not reschedule marijuana in its pending decision, and decides to fight the states on this). Economically, the tsunami is coming, and I expect it will be more of a tectonic cultural change than most are anticipating, too. For decades, our socially-acceptable, legal soft intoxicant of choice has been ethyl alcohol, a neurotoxic drug (and one poisonous to the body generally) that often elicits anti-social behavior in its intoxicant effects. Imagine a stadium full of excited, stoned fans at the end of a hard-fought championship game: are we really going to have riots like we have too often now? I imagine more of a giant 'good game you guys, well played, where is the nearest pizza joint'-type ending to those stories if weed is the primary intoxicant in play. (And yes, that's my implicit forecast here: marijuana, once fully legal, will displace alcohol culturally, and I think we'll be mostly better for it. It will affect the ways we perceive and think, and thus we will see shifts in culture in unexpected places, e.g., perhaps a diminishment of interest in toxic hypermasculinity. Though the term was co-opted for more prosaic use, Richard Dawkins' original sense of the word 'meme' expresses something essential: that ideas in transmission among human beings are fundamental to creating and changing our human world. Any even semi-regularly-used intoxicant causes changes to brain chemistry, perceptions, thoughts, feelings, and more, which absolutely do affect cultural ideas and behavior in the aggregate; I strongly suspect that a cultural shift from the heavy depressant ethyl alcohol to the mild psychedelic cannabis will have impacts we are not yet considering. And I don't mean to sound pollyanna-ish about it, as mentioned above, many individuals will unfortunately have bad experiences, too, and illness or un-wellness can be unintentionally exacerbated.)
Anyway. I like to pay attention to specific moments and mechanisms of cultural shift (obviously), past and present, and this one is really fun to be in the middle of, a smaller-scale version of living through the dawn of the internet age.
posted by LooseFilter at 12:56 PM on August 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
So with marijuana legalization, Colorado (and WA, OR and others) have kind of been pilot programs to see if it could work: would people vote for it; how will it be reified in terms of policy, law, enforcement, revenue management/restrictions; so on. (Though we had an initiative here in 2010, it was bad legislation and most knew it, so it was a big 'no' vote that had little to do with the primary question of legalization.) Seeing it work in smaller states, I think, has given a large majority of voters here confidence to vote for the much-better-written initiative we have on the ballot this time. What is fascinating is just how much of a yawn and non-issue it is--as I mentioned before, it really seems to be a foregone conclusion, which is shocking to me not because OMG WE'RE GONNA HAVE LEGAL WEED but because I really think most people have little sense of how huge the cultural and economic impacts are going to be.
Culturally, as I said, when baby boomers discover this mild-to-moderate soft intoxicant with its delightfully minimal negative side effects, and beneficial and enjoyable primary effects, it will be a tidal wave, likely the last that the boomers will trigger. (Speaking of critical mass, though I have long been weary of living in the baby boomer's shadow and world, their numbers as a generation have compelled us to confront difficult questions--good and bad--for decades, and on balance I have to admit that we are the better for it, and I just sense they're not done yet.) People will not, en masse, suddenly want to start smoking (tobacco or weed, smoking a plant is still smoking a plant, and lots of people quite reasonably have little interest in that), edibles won't suddenly become more mild and manageable (seriously people: edibles are advanced weed-taking); and people won't want to spend a ton on gadgets and kits to vaporize bud, most likely; but the medical market is already responding in really interesting ways.
For those who are OK smoking, there are some, um, thoroughly-made prerolls that are high quality product and eliminate the need to handle creating your own joints, or buying a pipe, or etc. The product type I expect will be the one to really entice people, though, especially older folks, will be pre-loaded, disposable cartridges containing concentrate that is extracted cleanly and often infused with other plant oils for flavor and woo. Those just screw onto a battery and are ready to go: press a button, inhale gently, and room temperature vapor is all that is ingested. So the form factor is super convenient and low impact (and almost no--or no--odor at all), but what really makes it appealing is the specificity of product: potency is indicated on the box, consistent because of controlled extraction processes, including breakdown for primary cannabinoids THC, CBD, and CBN, which makes it fairly easy for a minimally-informed consumer to make a good choice (especially with the guidance of a decent budtender) for desired medical or recreational effects.
For me, my own fascination is on this side of it, the cultural stuff, and while I think the boomers will be a big part of it, everyone else will be too, and I just could not be more interested to see how it all shakes out. I am hopeful it will be a net positive in many ways material and human. But, also as I mentioned before, the economic side will be truly staggering, and the most fast-motion aspect of all these changes. I was first made aware of the scale of the black market marijuana economy by this book, and the legal marijuana industry in California generated $2.7 billion in sales in 2015, and is expected to be well north of $6 billion by 2020 if legalization is ratified this fall (enacted 2018). With a current proposed state tax of 15%, $6 billion means around $900 million of new tax revenue annually. That's a lot of new revenue, even for a state this big.
So these are some of the reasons I'm such an avid culture-watcher on this issue (or set of issues, really). Given the scale of California as a state--the number of people, size of economy, and size of this industry specifically--I expect that CA state legalization will be the tipping point for full, national legalization within a few years (<10 likely, unless the DEA loses its mind and does not reschedule marijuana in its pending decision, and decides to fight the states on this). Economically, the tsunami is coming, and I expect it will be more of a tectonic cultural change than most are anticipating, too. For decades, our socially-acceptable, legal soft intoxicant of choice has been ethyl alcohol, a neurotoxic drug (and one poisonous to the body generally) that often elicits anti-social behavior in its intoxicant effects. Imagine a stadium full of excited, stoned fans at the end of a hard-fought championship game: are we really going to have riots like we have too often now? I imagine more of a giant 'good game you guys, well played, where is the nearest pizza joint'-type ending to those stories if weed is the primary intoxicant in play. (And yes, that's my implicit forecast here: marijuana, once fully legal, will displace alcohol culturally, and I think we'll be mostly better for it. It will affect the ways we perceive and think, and thus we will see shifts in culture in unexpected places, e.g., perhaps a diminishment of interest in toxic hypermasculinity. Though the term was co-opted for more prosaic use, Richard Dawkins' original sense of the word 'meme' expresses something essential: that ideas in transmission among human beings are fundamental to creating and changing our human world. Any even semi-regularly-used intoxicant causes changes to brain chemistry, perceptions, thoughts, feelings, and more, which absolutely do affect cultural ideas and behavior in the aggregate; I strongly suspect that a cultural shift from the heavy depressant ethyl alcohol to the mild psychedelic cannabis will have impacts we are not yet considering. And I don't mean to sound pollyanna-ish about it, as mentioned above, many individuals will unfortunately have bad experiences, too, and illness or un-wellness can be unintentionally exacerbated.)
Anyway. I like to pay attention to specific moments and mechanisms of cultural shift (obviously), past and present, and this one is really fun to be in the middle of, a smaller-scale version of living through the dawn of the internet age.
posted by LooseFilter at 12:56 PM on August 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Thank you, LooseFilter, very interesting stuff, and I agree with a lot of what you say.
posted by marienbad at 2:15 PM on August 11, 2016
posted by marienbad at 2:15 PM on August 11, 2016
I discovered stoned sex 20 years ago. I'm definitely a fan. :)
Stoned masturbation is great, except when your mind starts wandering, lol.
posted by sallybethdraper at 9:24 PM on August 11, 2016
Stoned masturbation is great, except when your mind starts wandering, lol.
posted by sallybethdraper at 9:24 PM on August 11, 2016
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