...a moment in history where it is almost hard to catch your breath.
August 12, 2016 5:10 PM Subscribe
Today, the Hillary Clinton campaign launched a new "With Her" podcast, chronicling her historic run for office. Clinton also released her 2015 tax returns while Sen. Tim Kaine released 10 years’ worth of his. With just 87 days until Election Day, 538's "Election Forecast" looks dire for Republican nominee Donald Trump, who continues to rely on wild, desperate claims to capture each news cycle.
I think the 538 link is wrong.
posted by roll truck roll at 5:14 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by roll truck roll at 5:14 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's been increasingly incredible to me how Everytime some new stuff comes out that could hurt Clinton (her speaking fees, Clinton foundation connections with state department recently), instead of capitalizing on that moment and benghazing it to death like they have always done Trump just comes back with something more insane to redominate the headlines.
posted by Karaage at 5:14 PM on August 12, 2016 [57 favorites]
posted by Karaage at 5:14 PM on August 12, 2016 [57 favorites]
Today, the Hillary Clinton campaign launched a new “With Her” podcast,
My demographic has been captured.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:16 PM on August 12, 2016 [21 favorites]
My demographic has been captured.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:16 PM on August 12, 2016 [21 favorites]
for reals, i feel like if it came out that Hillary Clinton assaulted a voter at one of her events, Trump would be on tv that afternoon proclaiming that she invented fluoridation and chemtrails
posted by murphy slaw at 5:16 PM on August 12, 2016 [56 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 5:16 PM on August 12, 2016 [56 favorites]
Tim Kaine tax scandal: deducted a necktie as a business expense, wore it to church once for Midnight Mass.
posted by box at 5:16 PM on August 12, 2016 [136 favorites]
posted by box at 5:16 PM on August 12, 2016 [136 favorites]
Reporters need to ask Trump campaign officials whether they really want to have Trump campaign 2016 on their resumes after November. It will be delicious to see the panic spread over their faces.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:16 PM on August 12, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:16 PM on August 12, 2016 [31 favorites]
The rodeo clowns can intervene…
Send in...the clowns
posted by ian1977 at 5:17 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Send in...the clowns
posted by ian1977 at 5:17 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also I didn't think I had any more respect left to lose for GOP leaders but there is some serious ride or die stuff going on right now with Ryan, McCain and Co.
posted by Karaage at 5:17 PM on August 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Karaage at 5:17 PM on August 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
I think the 538 link is wrong.
Yup, goes to 270towin.
posted by waitingtoderail at 5:17 PM on August 12, 2016
Yup, goes to 270towin.
posted by waitingtoderail at 5:17 PM on August 12, 2016
aaaaaah she’s just folks like me.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:18 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 5:18 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Okay, what pisses me off is NPR's take on Clinton and Kaine releasing their taxes - they won't read the obvious from Trump inciting violence, but they'll allow as how Clinton released her taxes so she could "bash" Trump.
Up yours, NPR.
posted by Mooski at 5:20 PM on August 12, 2016 [111 favorites]
Up yours, NPR.
posted by Mooski at 5:20 PM on August 12, 2016 [111 favorites]
Fun thing from 538's current predictions: They say Clinton is more likely to win Kansas than Trump is to win the election.
posted by nat at 5:20 PM on August 12, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by nat at 5:20 PM on August 12, 2016 [17 favorites]
Trump just comes back with something more insane to redominate the headlines.
If this were merely a rout, it would be sad and uninteresting to watch. As it is, every time I open up a browser, I wonder if today Trump will have gotten into a scuffle with a wildebeest, or doxxed Chelsea Clinton, or gotten a Chester A. Arthur tattoo. The Onion writers have to be really on their game to stay ahead of him.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:22 PM on August 12, 2016 [46 favorites]
If this were merely a rout, it would be sad and uninteresting to watch. As it is, every time I open up a browser, I wonder if today Trump will have gotten into a scuffle with a wildebeest, or doxxed Chelsea Clinton, or gotten a Chester A. Arthur tattoo. The Onion writers have to be really on their game to stay ahead of him.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:22 PM on August 12, 2016 [46 favorites]
Mod note: Fixed the link. I think this can be the new thread. From the previous thread, let's continue the marking fake things "fake."
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 5:22 PM on August 12, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 5:22 PM on August 12, 2016 [26 favorites]
Okay, what pisses me off is NPR's take on Clinton and Kaine releasing their taxes - they won't read the obvious from Trump inciting violence, but they'll allow as how Clinton released her taxes so she could “bash” Trump.
Indeed! Clinton is releasing her taxes because candidates should release their taxes. Bashing Trump is a perk, but she’d be releasing them anyway.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:23 PM on August 12, 2016 [16 favorites]
Indeed! Clinton is releasing her taxes because candidates should release their taxes. Bashing Trump is a perk, but she’d be releasing them anyway.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:23 PM on August 12, 2016 [16 favorites]
I still tend to favor the idea that Trump's real purpose in all of this is to set up Trump TV, unless he's just literally losing his mind, and maybe even if he is.
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:25 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:25 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
murphy slaw posted this at the tail-end of the previous thread, but I think it's worth putting in again for those who might have missed it:
"Trump has brought us something we haven't seen in at least 30 years: a cool cover on Time magazine" (click image for full pic)
I might actually spend money an honest-to-God print magazine for the first time in forever (and Time, no less!), just to frame that cover.
posted by tzikeh at 5:25 PM on August 12, 2016 [42 favorites]
"Trump has brought us something we haven't seen in at least 30 years: a cool cover on Time magazine" (click image for full pic)
I might actually spend money an honest-to-God print magazine for the first time in forever (and Time, no less!), just to frame that cover.
posted by tzikeh at 5:25 PM on August 12, 2016 [42 favorites]
I try and take solace in 538 these days as I visit them daily. But I don't really enjoy it, because I know anything can happen between now and November.
I feel the same way I did eight years ago reading the political blogs: Sarah Palin couldn't possibly become vice president! Obama is doing fantastic in the polls! We got it in the bag!
Wait until November. Then I'll relax.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 5:25 PM on August 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
I feel the same way I did eight years ago reading the political blogs: Sarah Palin couldn't possibly become vice president! Obama is doing fantastic in the polls! We got it in the bag!
Wait until November. Then I'll relax.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 5:25 PM on August 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
(obama if you want to start a podcast if you retire that’s fine too.)
posted by Going To Maine at 5:26 PM on August 12, 2016 [42 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 5:26 PM on August 12, 2016 [42 favorites]
LobsterMitten: From the previous thread, let's continue the marking fake things "fake."
For the love of sanity, YES please.
posted by tzikeh at 5:27 PM on August 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
For the love of sanity, YES please.
posted by tzikeh at 5:27 PM on August 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
The Onion writers have to be really on their game to stay ahead of him
I love that this is LITERALLY true. This isn't 'ha ha ha how dumb can W be?' Trump is so beyond those dynamics we are in uncharted territory. If there were an article that said trump is proof of the singularity approaching I would not discount it out of hand. Trumpypool indeed.
posted by ian1977 at 5:28 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
I love that this is LITERALLY true. This isn't 'ha ha ha how dumb can W be?' Trump is so beyond those dynamics we are in uncharted territory. If there were an article that said trump is proof of the singularity approaching I would not discount it out of hand. Trumpypool indeed.
posted by ian1977 at 5:28 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
Just time traveling for a moment to say "Hi!" to Tehhund, whenever you are!
posted by rp at 5:28 PM on August 12, 2016 [28 favorites]
posted by rp at 5:28 PM on August 12, 2016 [28 favorites]
Reporters need to ask Trump campaign officials whether they really want to have Trump campaign 2016 on their resumes after November. It will be delicious to see the panic spread over their faces.
I'm sure they'll just leave it off. Like how if a potential employer asks Mitt Romney what he was doing during the 2007-2012 gap on his resume he'll just say he was hiking the Appalachian Trail the whole time.
posted by ckape at 5:32 PM on August 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
I'm sure they'll just leave it off. Like how if a potential employer asks Mitt Romney what he was doing during the 2007-2012 gap on his resume he'll just say he was hiking the Appalachian Trail the whole time.
posted by ckape at 5:32 PM on August 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
The Onion writers have to be really on their game to stay ahead of him
This one's damn good. This one's... kind of terrifying.
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:34 PM on August 12, 2016 [13 favorites]
This one's damn good. This one's... kind of terrifying.
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:34 PM on August 12, 2016 [13 favorites]
God help us all. This is getting dangerous. And ridiculous. And worse every day.
posted by cashman at 5:34 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by cashman at 5:34 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
"Onion Staff Quit En Masse After Latest Trump Comment" would be a good headline.
"We just don't know what to do anymore," one staffer, who asked to remain anonymous, said. "I mean, it used to be you'd just extrapolate a bit to a slightly crazier reality, and bang out a story, maybe go home early. But now...well, there's no shame in being beaten by the best, right?"
posted by uosuaq at 5:36 PM on August 12, 2016 [160 favorites]
"We just don't know what to do anymore," one staffer, who asked to remain anonymous, said. "I mean, it used to be you'd just extrapolate a bit to a slightly crazier reality, and bang out a story, maybe go home early. But now...well, there's no shame in being beaten by the best, right?"
posted by uosuaq at 5:36 PM on August 12, 2016 [160 favorites]
I feel the same way I did eight years ago: Sarah Palin couldn't possibly become vice president! Obama is doing fantastic in the polls! We got it in the bag!
I'm actually pretty chill about this now. Trump has no idea what he's doing. I think these are the scenarios in which Trump could still win:
My panic has faded, anyway. Not that one should no longer work to win, but the Trumpian apocalypse seems less likely every day.
posted by dis_integration at 5:36 PM on August 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
I'm actually pretty chill about this now. Trump has no idea what he's doing. I think these are the scenarios in which Trump could still win:
- Something really horrible but true is revealed about Clinton that tanks her. Maybe baby eating?
- Or, it's revealed that Clinton really does have some horrible health condition.
- Or, Clinton dies.
My panic has faded, anyway. Not that one should no longer work to win, but the Trumpian apocalypse seems less likely every day.
posted by dis_integration at 5:36 PM on August 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
3. Or, Clinton dies.
You really think Trump beats Kaine in that scenario?
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:38 PM on August 12, 2016 [19 favorites]
You really think Trump beats Kaine in that scenario?
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:38 PM on August 12, 2016 [19 favorites]
I'm actually pretty chill about this now.
My panic has faded, anyway.
Are you still paying attention to what's being said? Trump is whipping up people into a fury and violence might not be far behind.
posted by cashman at 5:40 PM on August 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
My panic has faded, anyway.
Are you still paying attention to what's being said? Trump is whipping up people into a fury and violence might not be far behind.
posted by cashman at 5:40 PM on August 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
From today's trump rallies: I think the voter disenfranchisement dog whistle is what has pissed me off the most about a very despicable campaign. People pass it off as trump's unique stream of conscious manner of "speaking", but it's clear that he has intent here, which is to make election day as messy and unpalatable as possible. At first to stop the vote, and then to make any result questionable in the eyes of his voters. I hate it. It's acidic to the democratic process of this country, and will have lasting deleterious effects.
posted by codacorolla at 5:40 PM on August 12, 2016 [71 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 5:40 PM on August 12, 2016 [71 favorites]
Trump Encourages His Supporters to Patrol Polling Places, Says He Will Lose Pa. Only If There is Cheating
@SeanMcElwee: Conservative, Koch-linked, groups have been intimidating people of color at polling places.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:40 PM on August 12, 2016 [39 favorites]
@SeanMcElwee: Conservative, Koch-linked, groups have been intimidating people of color at polling places.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:40 PM on August 12, 2016 [39 favorites]
Multidecade Ratfucking Brigade = new band name
posted by uosuaq at 5:40 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 5:40 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
You really think Trump beats Kaine in that scenario?
That scenario is too fuggin horrible to contemplate. I don't even know what happens if the nominee dies during the campaign, but I'm not sure I want to know, either.
posted by Mooski at 5:41 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
That scenario is too fuggin horrible to contemplate. I don't even know what happens if the nominee dies during the campaign, but I'm not sure I want to know, either.
posted by Mooski at 5:41 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
The Rude Pundit: A Brief Note About Donald Trump and "You Can't Always Get What You Want"
posted by homunculus at 5:42 PM on August 12, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 5:42 PM on August 12, 2016 [18 favorites]
What I'm interested in is how much pull Johnson and the libertarians are getting at the end of the day- that's where I see a split.
posted by eclectist at 5:43 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by eclectist at 5:43 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
So, it doesn't count as self-posting if it's a comment, right? McSweeney's didn't like it, so here's my "Who Said It: Trump Or Hitler?" quiz:
1. When somebody challenges you, fight back. Be brutal, be tough.
2. Without passion you don't have energy, without energy you have nothing.
3. Der Erfolg ist der einzige irdische Richter über das Recht oder Unrecht.
4. What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
5. Ich gehe mit der Sicherheit eines Schlafwandlers entlang des Pfades, den mir die Vorsehung geebnet hat.
6. I try to learn from the past, but I plan for the future by focusing exclusively on the present.
7. Ich kann mich nicht täuschen, was ich sage und tue, ist historisch.
8. Mache die Lüge groß, mache sie einfach, wiederhole sie immer wieder, und letztendlich wird man sie glauben.
9. Sometimes by losing a battle you find a new way to win the war.
10. We need strength, we need energy, we need quickness and we need brain in this country to turn it around.
11. Der Terrorismus ist die beste politische Waffe, nichts macht den Menschen mehr Angst, als die Furcht vor plötzlichem Tod.
12. Anyone who thinks my story is anywhere near over is sadly mistaken.
13. Was für ein Glück für die Regierenden, daß die Menschen nicht denken!
Trump: 1, 2, 4, 6, 9, 10, 12
Hitler: 3, 5, 7, 8, 11, 13
posted by uosuaq at 5:46 PM on August 12, 2016 [120 favorites]
1. When somebody challenges you, fight back. Be brutal, be tough.
2. Without passion you don't have energy, without energy you have nothing.
3. Der Erfolg ist der einzige irdische Richter über das Recht oder Unrecht.
4. What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
5. Ich gehe mit der Sicherheit eines Schlafwandlers entlang des Pfades, den mir die Vorsehung geebnet hat.
6. I try to learn from the past, but I plan for the future by focusing exclusively on the present.
7. Ich kann mich nicht täuschen, was ich sage und tue, ist historisch.
8. Mache die Lüge groß, mache sie einfach, wiederhole sie immer wieder, und letztendlich wird man sie glauben.
9. Sometimes by losing a battle you find a new way to win the war.
10. We need strength, we need energy, we need quickness and we need brain in this country to turn it around.
11. Der Terrorismus ist die beste politische Waffe, nichts macht den Menschen mehr Angst, als die Furcht vor plötzlichem Tod.
12. Anyone who thinks my story is anywhere near over is sadly mistaken.
13. Was für ein Glück für die Regierenden, daß die Menschen nicht denken!
Trump: 1, 2, 4, 6, 9, 10, 12
Hitler: 3, 5, 7, 8, 11, 13
posted by uosuaq at 5:46 PM on August 12, 2016 [120 favorites]
Does anyone else think that Trump might be trying to forfeit the election on purpose? Sure, it's crazy, but is it any crazier than the absolutely bug-humping nuts stuff that hourly comes out of his mouth?
BTW, I check RealClear Politics for regular updates from a number of polls.
posted by dfm500 at 5:47 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
BTW, I check RealClear Politics for regular updates from a number of polls.
posted by dfm500 at 5:47 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
Are you still paying attention to what's being said? Trump is whipping up people into a fury and violence might not be far behind.
I mean, he's been doing that for a year now. Violence is terrible, and I hope his incitement doesn't lead to any more real political violence. And as someone who has been assaulted by strangers for "looking like a fag" I sympathize with the fear that kind of violent atmosphere can put in people. But it's not, like, you know, nuclear apocalypse levels. It's just back to American mob fury, mass shooting and cops murdering black americans levels-of-violence. So, how we were before Trump. Which is to say: Shit is bad. But Trump can only do so much as a loser.
posted by dis_integration at 5:47 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
I mean, he's been doing that for a year now. Violence is terrible, and I hope his incitement doesn't lead to any more real political violence. And as someone who has been assaulted by strangers for "looking like a fag" I sympathize with the fear that kind of violent atmosphere can put in people. But it's not, like, you know, nuclear apocalypse levels. It's just back to American mob fury, mass shooting and cops murdering black americans levels-of-violence. So, how we were before Trump. Which is to say: Shit is bad. But Trump can only do so much as a loser.
posted by dis_integration at 5:47 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
Also I didn't think I had any more respect left to lose for GOP leaders but there is some serious ride or die stuff going on right now with Ryan, McCain and Co.
In my head, the movie made out of all of this ends somewhat like The Devil's Rejects, where the GOP marches proudly into its own political demise with Freebird cranked up to 11.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 5:50 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
In my head, the movie made out of all of this ends somewhat like The Devil's Rejects, where the GOP marches proudly into its own political demise with Freebird cranked up to 11.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 5:50 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
Aww come on. The Firefly family doesn't deserve that comparison.
posted by ian1977 at 5:52 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 5:52 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
> Just time traveling for a moment to say "Hi!" to Tehhund, whenever you are!
posted by rp at 5:28 PM on August 12
[7 favorites −] [!]
What's great is thinking about Tehhund is right now probably getting close to where/when we started talking about how Tehhund is behind...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:57 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by rp at 5:28 PM on August 12
[7 favorites −] [!]
What's great is thinking about Tehhund is right now probably getting close to where/when we started talking about how Tehhund is behind...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:57 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
Reporters need to ask Trump campaign officials whether they really want to have Trump campaign 2016 on their resumes after November. It will be delicious to see the panic spread over their faces.
The writers of the podcast Keeping 1600, Jon Favreau and Dan Pfeiffer, who were advisers on Obama's campaign, have said most definitely these people will never work again. I know Katrina Pierson is going to have trouble finding work. I say that...yet somehow I know she will show up as the new CNN correspondent.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:57 PM on August 12, 2016 [20 favorites]
The writers of the podcast Keeping 1600, Jon Favreau and Dan Pfeiffer, who were advisers on Obama's campaign, have said most definitely these people will never work again. I know Katrina Pierson is going to have trouble finding work. I say that...yet somehow I know she will show up as the new CNN correspondent.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:57 PM on August 12, 2016 [20 favorites]
The Rude Pundit: A Brief Note About Donald Trump and "You Can't Always Get What You Want"
Trump fact: That song was actually his third choice, after "Warning" by Biggie and "O Superman (For Massenet)"
posted by theodolite at 5:59 PM on August 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
Trump fact: That song was actually his third choice, after "Warning" by Biggie and "O Superman (For Massenet)"
posted by theodolite at 5:59 PM on August 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
I think Trump will benefit from any acts of terrorism that may occur before the election (which is an election technique credited to Putin). Therefore, Hillary should raise the subject sooner than later.
posted by Brian B. at 6:00 PM on August 12, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Brian B. at 6:00 PM on August 12, 2016 [8 favorites]
Trump Encourages His Supporters to Patrol Polling Places, Says He Will Lose Pa. Only If There is Cheating
See...this is something that's been grinding on me of late. Election day. I find it entirely possible, if not completely assured, that I'm going to have to negotiate past a phalanx of Trump's brown-shirts in order to get to my polling place. Some, no doubt, open-carrying. Election day will be...interesting?
posted by Thorzdad at 6:02 PM on August 12, 2016 [36 favorites]
See...this is something that's been grinding on me of late. Election day. I find it entirely possible, if not completely assured, that I'm going to have to negotiate past a phalanx of Trump's brown-shirts in order to get to my polling place. Some, no doubt, open-carrying. Election day will be...interesting?
posted by Thorzdad at 6:02 PM on August 12, 2016 [36 favorites]
I am always surprised when people say that if Hillary did something wrong she would be charged.
If I had a charitable organization getting million dollar donations from someone who I had official government dealings with and I then went and gave them a favorable deal. I would be sunk.
Or if a company that I managed payed me millions of dollars while I was in office, while I gave them very favorable billion dollar contracts, that is a clear conflict of interest. Again I would be sunk.
Clinton and Cheney both benefit from being in a position that no one has the political capital to prosecute. If they are not criminals, then it is because the same laws don't apply.
Can't wait to see how she monetizes her newest political office.
posted by psycho-alchemy at 6:02 PM on August 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
If I had a charitable organization getting million dollar donations from someone who I had official government dealings with and I then went and gave them a favorable deal. I would be sunk.
Or if a company that I managed payed me millions of dollars while I was in office, while I gave them very favorable billion dollar contracts, that is a clear conflict of interest. Again I would be sunk.
Clinton and Cheney both benefit from being in a position that no one has the political capital to prosecute. If they are not criminals, then it is because the same laws don't apply.
Can't wait to see how she monetizes her newest political office.
posted by psycho-alchemy at 6:02 PM on August 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
The greatest thing about this election right now is that Trump isn't even the most insane person on his own TEAM. Trump can say or do anything and Pierson will be on CNN shortly afterwards making Trump seem almost rational. You can set your watch by it.
Pierson threatened to wear a necklace of metal fetuses on the air. Trump could wear a stack of ACTUAL fetuses on the air like a horsecollar and Pierson would declare him a champion of the unborn and accuse Hillary of sending agents to steal it and sell their parts on eBay.
posted by delfin at 6:02 PM on August 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
Pierson threatened to wear a necklace of metal fetuses on the air. Trump could wear a stack of ACTUAL fetuses on the air like a horsecollar and Pierson would declare him a champion of the unborn and accuse Hillary of sending agents to steal it and sell their parts on eBay.
posted by delfin at 6:02 PM on August 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
Yeah I've been wargaming what a large scale, domestic strike would do to this election, and seem to think the Clinton people would have to really mishandle it for it to actually tip this.
posted by vrakatar at 6:04 PM on August 12, 2016
posted by vrakatar at 6:04 PM on August 12, 2016
Trump and Pierson is like a meet-cute between NPD and Dunning-Kruger.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:05 PM on August 12, 2016 [28 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:05 PM on August 12, 2016 [28 favorites]
Trump is scheduled to appear at Sacred Heart University in Fairfield, CT tomorrow night at 7:30. The President of the school is taking some heat over it. Think of that. In any other election year no one would question a college hosting a Presidential Candidate.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:05 PM on August 12, 2016 [27 favorites]
"Some also have questioned whether — as a Catholic university — we should allow him access to our facilities, as some of his stances and proclamations appear contrary to our religious beliefs and values."Yet the white Southern Evangelicals have embraced Trump whole-heartedly. I guess the difference is that Evangelicals don't care about Trump's morality, they just care whether he will return some of their political power.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:05 PM on August 12, 2016 [27 favorites]
I dunno, I'm guessing Clinton might not be mega rich, but I'm sure she's comfortable. Do you really think money is a prime motivation for sane multimillionaire 60something old? If she just wanted to get rich(er) she could have skipped the presidency and just concentrated on $$$.
posted by ian1977 at 6:05 PM on August 12, 2016 [62 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 6:05 PM on August 12, 2016 [62 favorites]
What's great is thinking about Tehhund is right now probably getting close to where/when we started talking about how Tehhund is behind...
I'll let you know if they favorite my first comment.
(Tehhund has been diligently catching up on the election threads and frequent commenters have been noting their progress in our favorited by others pages. It's only a matter of time til they read about themselves. )
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:06 PM on August 12, 2016 [20 favorites]
I'll let you know if they favorite my first comment.
(Tehhund has been diligently catching up on the election threads and frequent commenters have been noting their progress in our favorited by others pages. It's only a matter of time til they read about themselves. )
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:06 PM on August 12, 2016 [20 favorites]
What happened to that Evan Dando guy?
posted by Artw at 6:08 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:08 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
Fun thing from 538's current predictions: They say Clinton is more likely to win Kansas than Trump is to win the election.
i just unleashed the ugliest shrill witch cackle of unholy vindictive glee
posted by poffin boffin at 6:08 PM on August 12, 2016 [71 favorites]
i just unleashed the ugliest shrill witch cackle of unholy vindictive glee
posted by poffin boffin at 6:08 PM on August 12, 2016 [71 favorites]
I've signed up to phone bank for Hillary from home; I forgot how being able to phone bank anytime, anywhere is like being back at school with the black cloud of homework hanging over your head. I'm also phone banking in person for the local congressional race- I signed up partially in hopes of meeting some new local friends and the first night, it was all SUPER young staffers from around the US. Me and Baby Rob Lowe still had a great time.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:10 PM on August 12, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:10 PM on August 12, 2016 [27 favorites]
Can't wait to see how she monetizes her newest political office.
Yeah, she's been playing a long game to get rich. I'm impressed she's kept her eye on the prize for this long!
posted by OmieWise at 6:11 PM on August 12, 2016 [62 favorites]
Yeah, she's been playing a long game to get rich. I'm impressed she's kept her eye on the prize for this long!
posted by OmieWise at 6:11 PM on August 12, 2016 [62 favorites]
More about that Sacred Heart visit
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:12 PM on August 12, 2016 [16 favorites]
The last time a Republican presidential candidate campaigned in Connecticut during the general election was when Ronald Reagan made a stop in Fairfield in 1984. Gary Rose, chair of the department of government and politics at Sacred Heart University, says Trump might have considered Connecticut in play a month ago, but the polls are going in the other direction. Rose says that’s why he suspects there’s more to Trump’s visit.Or it may be that Trump is campaigning in CT because he doesn't have a clue as to what he is doing and besides CT is only a short plane ride from home.
“This is not a self-funded campaign any longer, and so I wouldn’t be surprised if there is also a fundraising motivation involved in this visit as well.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:12 PM on August 12, 2016 [16 favorites]
how she monetizes her newest political office
1. Get elected
2. Serve 2 terms
3. Write book.
4. Profit!
posted by vrakatar at 6:14 PM on August 12, 2016 [46 favorites]
1. Get elected
2. Serve 2 terms
3. Write book.
4. Profit!
posted by vrakatar at 6:14 PM on August 12, 2016 [46 favorites]
The Smoking Gun: Hacker Publishes List Of Cell Phone Numbers, Private E-Mails For Most House Democrats
In a post to his WordPress blog, the vandal--who previously provided nearly 20,000 Democratic National Committee e-mails to Wikileaks--uploaded an Excel file that includes the cell phone numbers and private e-mail addresses of nearly every Democratic member of the House of Representatives.posted by Spathe Cadet at 6:16 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
The Excel file also includes similar contact information for hundreds of congressional staff members (chiefs of staff, press secretaries, legislative directors, schedulers) and campaign personnel.
1. Get elected
2. Serve two terms
3. Lucrative public speaking career!
posted by ian1977 at 6:17 PM on August 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
2. Serve two terms
3. Lucrative public speaking career!
posted by ian1977 at 6:17 PM on August 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
What happened to that Evan Dando guy?
He knows a place that's safe and warm.
posted by LionIndex at 6:17 PM on August 12, 2016 [14 favorites]
He knows a place that's safe and warm.
posted by LionIndex at 6:17 PM on August 12, 2016 [14 favorites]
Also,
posted by zachlipton at 6:19 PM on August 12, 2016 [25 favorites]
Along with the Excel file, “Guccifer 2.0” also uploaded documents that included the account names and passwords for an assortment of subscription services used by the DCCC, from Lexis-Nexis to Glenn Beck’s web site (password: nutbag).[real, emphasis added]
posted by zachlipton at 6:19 PM on August 12, 2016 [25 favorites]
I keep thinking the best "who said it" game would be Trump vs. L Ron Hubbard. Recently rekindled my long interest in Scientology, and it's amazing what similarities exist between the two men. Especially the parts about "always attack, never defend", "why tell the truth when you can lie", "give the marks a good show", and the fondness for word salad passed off as something profound.
posted by honestcoyote at 6:22 PM on August 12, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by honestcoyote at 6:22 PM on August 12, 2016 [20 favorites]
Oh for crying out loud... a Trump campaign office opened in Orlando across the street from the Pulse nightclub.
posted by Servo5678 at 6:24 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Servo5678 at 6:24 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
Clinton also released her new 2015 tax returns.
The Clintons had previously released over 30 years of tax returns.
A few observations from the Clintons' new 2015 tax return.
Together they made a little less $11 million and gave away more than $1 million to charity, close to a 10% tithe.
Although Hillary is 68 and Bill is 69, neither has elected to collect their Social Security benefits yet. If you don't need your SS benefits, you can increase their amount by delaying to a maximum of age 70 and a half.
Bill is collecting $226,000 in pension benefits, most of which is from his term as President. If Hillary also serves as President, they will together retire with about half a million dollars a year in pension payments.
They have interest of about $25,000 from a cash account at JP Morgan which I estimate represents about $25 million in cash deposits.
They have dividends of $84,000 from a Vanguard S&P 500 mutual fund which I estimate represents a market value of about $4.2 million. This is the same Vanguard fund that is a favorite among AskMeFi financial experts. Maybe they are reading AskMeFi. They executed no trades in 2015, buy and hold as recommended in AskMeFi.
This seems to be the extent of their investments -- a $25 million cash account and a $4.2 million Vanguard mutual fund. This is a quite conservative and non-controversial investment portfolio.
Their earned income came from four sources reported on four Schedule C reports. Hillary had $28,000 in book royalties and Bill had $29,000 in book royalties. Hillary had $1.5 million in speaking fees and Bill had $4.4 million in speaking fees. Neither had any wage income. This is the bulk of their total income.
They paid a total of $3.6 million in taxes which consists of income tax plus self-employment tax. If you just look at their income tax as a percentage of their adjusted gross, they paid about 30% of their income as taxes. In addition they paid $300,000 in self-employment taxes (social security and Medicare taxes).
They paid $1.3 million in New York state income taxes and an addition $100,000 in property taxes.
They also paid $85,000 in new taxes on high income households that were put in place to pay for Obamacare. So you can thank the Clintons for your health insurance subsides or expanded Medicaid.
All and all a quite simple and uncontroversial tax return for such high income earners.
posted by JackFlash at 6:25 PM on August 12, 2016 [210 favorites]
The Clintons had previously released over 30 years of tax returns.
A few observations from the Clintons' new 2015 tax return.
Together they made a little less $11 million and gave away more than $1 million to charity, close to a 10% tithe.
Although Hillary is 68 and Bill is 69, neither has elected to collect their Social Security benefits yet. If you don't need your SS benefits, you can increase their amount by delaying to a maximum of age 70 and a half.
Bill is collecting $226,000 in pension benefits, most of which is from his term as President. If Hillary also serves as President, they will together retire with about half a million dollars a year in pension payments.
They have interest of about $25,000 from a cash account at JP Morgan which I estimate represents about $25 million in cash deposits.
They have dividends of $84,000 from a Vanguard S&P 500 mutual fund which I estimate represents a market value of about $4.2 million. This is the same Vanguard fund that is a favorite among AskMeFi financial experts. Maybe they are reading AskMeFi. They executed no trades in 2015, buy and hold as recommended in AskMeFi.
This seems to be the extent of their investments -- a $25 million cash account and a $4.2 million Vanguard mutual fund. This is a quite conservative and non-controversial investment portfolio.
Their earned income came from four sources reported on four Schedule C reports. Hillary had $28,000 in book royalties and Bill had $29,000 in book royalties. Hillary had $1.5 million in speaking fees and Bill had $4.4 million in speaking fees. Neither had any wage income. This is the bulk of their total income.
They paid a total of $3.6 million in taxes which consists of income tax plus self-employment tax. If you just look at their income tax as a percentage of their adjusted gross, they paid about 30% of their income as taxes. In addition they paid $300,000 in self-employment taxes (social security and Medicare taxes).
They paid $1.3 million in New York state income taxes and an addition $100,000 in property taxes.
They also paid $85,000 in new taxes on high income households that were put in place to pay for Obamacare. So you can thank the Clintons for your health insurance subsides or expanded Medicaid.
All and all a quite simple and uncontroversial tax return for such high income earners.
posted by JackFlash at 6:25 PM on August 12, 2016 [210 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments deleted. Maybe let's not kick this thread off with a dive into What the Sheeple Must Know or What If Clinton Gets Killed.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 6:28 PM on August 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 6:28 PM on August 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
@anamariecox: Trump: “The only way they can beat us, in my opinion, and I mean this 100%, is if certain sections of the state, they cheat.”
@rickhasen: Code word for "urban" areas where minority voters are. Philly, Milwaukee...the racism isn't subtle.
We're entering dangerous (and unfortunately, familiar) waters here.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:29 PM on August 12, 2016 [21 favorites]
@rickhasen: Code word for "urban" areas where minority voters are. Philly, Milwaukee...the racism isn't subtle.
We're entering dangerous (and unfortunately, familiar) waters here.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:29 PM on August 12, 2016 [21 favorites]
Clinton and Cheney both benefit from being in a position that no one has the political capital to prosecute. If they are not criminals, then it is because the same laws don't apply.
Trump has had the same benefit for over 30 years without ever being elected or appointed to any government position. The Rich are just as immune as the Politically Powerful and use that immunity even more often.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:30 PM on August 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
Trump has had the same benefit for over 30 years without ever being elected or appointed to any government position. The Rich are just as immune as the Politically Powerful and use that immunity even more often.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:30 PM on August 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
Otherwise, if Hillary were forced to withdraw (and I see only two scenarios: a terrible health crisis or an actual indictment for something requiring a camera-ready 'perp walk'), Tim Kaine
I don't think Kaine would necessarily be the nominee. From what I've read, similar to if Trump died or dropped out, the DNC would choose the candidate to replace Clinton. Could be Kaine, but could be someone else (while he has a fraught relationship with the DNC, Sanders would be a logical choice as well, or they could go with everyone's favorite hypothetical candidate Joe Biden, or whatever).
posted by thefoxgod at 6:30 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
I don't think Kaine would necessarily be the nominee. From what I've read, similar to if Trump died or dropped out, the DNC would choose the candidate to replace Clinton. Could be Kaine, but could be someone else (while he has a fraught relationship with the DNC, Sanders would be a logical choice as well, or they could go with everyone's favorite hypothetical candidate Joe Biden, or whatever).
posted by thefoxgod at 6:30 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Booker!
posted by vrakatar at 6:32 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 6:32 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
McSweeney's didn't like it, so here's my "Who Said It: Trump Or Hitler?" quiz:
If it makes you feel better, I submitted one awhile back that they rejected, too. (Although mine threw in a few quotes from Mussolini, Kaiser Wilhelm, and Walter White as well, just for kicks.)
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 6:32 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
If it makes you feel better, I submitted one awhile back that they rejected, too. (Although mine threw in a few quotes from Mussolini, Kaiser Wilhelm, and Walter White as well, just for kicks.)
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 6:32 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
How do you fight the voter intimidation thing? Is this the kind of thing that the people who do "get out the vote" drives and the like take care of, or are there...like...teams of anti-voter-intimidation patrols or...what's the tried 'n' true tactic against this garbage?
posted by infinitywaltz at 6:33 PM on August 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by infinitywaltz at 6:33 PM on August 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
Recruit some people with experience as Planned Parenthood Clinic escorts and have them train others. It's the GOTV we need, not the one we want.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:36 PM on August 12, 2016 [29 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:36 PM on August 12, 2016 [29 favorites]
Amen to the frustration about NPR's coverage. Write them a letter. Tell them how you feel.
In the last couple days I've noticed less of: Trump says moon is made of Trump cheese. Hillary denies this.
posted by persona au gratin at 6:36 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
In the last couple days I've noticed less of: Trump says moon is made of Trump cheese. Hillary denies this.
posted by persona au gratin at 6:36 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
How do you fight the voter intimidation thing? Is this the kind of thing that the people who do "get out the vote" drives and the like take care of, or are there...like...teams of anti-voter-intimidation patrols or...what's the tried 'n' true tactic against this garbage?
Legal associations sometimes have election observer programs where lawyers can volunteer their time to be impartial polling place observers on election day.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:37 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
Legal associations sometimes have election observer programs where lawyers can volunteer their time to be impartial polling place observers on election day.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:37 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
The inciting voter intimidation thing is scary. In all honesty, if I lived somewhere that was open-carry and a bunch of Angry White Men stood around my polling place with guns strapped to their backs on Election Day, I would definitely think twice about going in to vote, and I'm white. I can't imagine the intimidation voters of color would feel.
posted by tzikeh at 6:38 PM on August 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by tzikeh at 6:38 PM on August 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
I just now realized that the VP debates between Kaine and Pence are going to be as close as we get to a real policy debate this year.
posted by codacorolla at 6:39 PM on August 12, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 6:39 PM on August 12, 2016 [16 favorites]
To be safe, just invest in a Trump T-shirt before you go to your polling place. Think of it as a sort of...tax.
posted by uosuaq at 6:40 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by uosuaq at 6:40 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
The answer to voter intimidation, for those who feel it within acceptable risk, is to patrol the polls yourself as an election protection observer.
posted by corb at 6:45 PM on August 12, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by corb at 6:45 PM on August 12, 2016 [16 favorites]
NBC Nightly News: NEW: Donald Trump says only way Hillary Clinton can win Pennsylvania "is if cheating goes on;" does not specify if he is being sarcastic.
posted by peacheater at 6:45 PM on August 12, 2016 [46 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 6:45 PM on August 12, 2016 [46 favorites]
Okay, what pisses me off is NPR's take on Clinton and Kaine releasing their taxes - they won't read the obvious from Trump inciting violence, but they'll allow as how Clinton released her taxes so she could “bash” Trump.
The Clintons have previously released their tax returns going all the way back to the early 1980s. Over a year ago Clinton released eight more years. This latest release is just her most recent return filed this year.
So, yeah, NPR is pretty stupid.
posted by JackFlash at 6:46 PM on August 12, 2016 [18 favorites]
The Clintons have previously released their tax returns going all the way back to the early 1980s. Over a year ago Clinton released eight more years. This latest release is just her most recent return filed this year.
So, yeah, NPR is pretty stupid.
posted by JackFlash at 6:46 PM on August 12, 2016 [18 favorites]
The "does not specify if he is being sarcastic" is gold. The news media has clearly had it with Trump's crap. Except apparently NPR?
posted by Justinian at 6:49 PM on August 12, 2016 [50 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:49 PM on August 12, 2016 [50 favorites]
trump's razor and all, but I wonder if making Pence a non-entity in the campaign is a way to distance him from trump's bombastic personality and then have him "win" the VP debates by putting forward relatively modest (in terms of A Modest Proposal in addition to the standard meaning) R. policy? That would give Hillary leaning Republicans a figleaf for holding their nose on the SCOTUS vote. Perhaps I'm ascribing too much forethought to a campaign that is just now opening up battleground state campaign offices.
posted by codacorolla at 6:49 PM on August 12, 2016
posted by codacorolla at 6:49 PM on August 12, 2016
We're at a point where "does not specify if he's being sarcastic" is a part of election coverage.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:50 PM on August 12, 2016 [39 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:50 PM on August 12, 2016 [39 favorites]
In the last thread there was a question about a missing $63 million in Trump campaign funds? I am still suspicious that that $80 million figure was made up, given that there had been reporting earlier in the day of a much, much lower number raised on Trump's side. My theory is that Trump's ego couldn't let the opposition appear to be more successful in any measure so they inflated the number passed off to press once he heard Clinton's figures.
I feel conspiracy-theorist and like I've gone over the edge to even suspect this, and yet, and yet, the most ridiculous thing has proven to be true so many times this cycle. I guess we'll find out soon, huh?
posted by Andrhia at 6:54 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
I feel conspiracy-theorist and like I've gone over the edge to even suspect this, and yet, and yet, the most ridiculous thing has proven to be true so many times this cycle. I guess we'll find out soon, huh?
posted by Andrhia at 6:54 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm really excited about Hillary's campaign launching their own podcast, I hope once Hillary becomes president she keeps up a semi-regular podcast, it could be like the 21st century version of the fireside chats! Everything I've read about Hillary makes her seem like a great person to know and work with in person, and I feel like the one-way intimacy that a podcast offers would allow those parts of her personality to come through.
posted by airish at 6:55 PM on August 12, 2016 [37 favorites]
posted by airish at 6:55 PM on August 12, 2016 [37 favorites]
Trump: Clinton can't win PA without cheating
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:56 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:56 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
They have interest of about $25,000 from a cash account at JP Morgan which I estimate represents about $25 million in cash deposits.
They have dividends of $84,000 from a Vanguard S&P 500 mutual fund which I estimate represents a market value of about $4.2 million.
This doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would you have a savings account six times as large as your investment account, especially if it's only insured up to $250,000 and, by your estimates, is only getting 0.1% interest? I'm admittedly not terribly familiar with dealing with wealth of these amounts, but that seems really weird to me.
posted by one_bean at 6:56 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
They have dividends of $84,000 from a Vanguard S&P 500 mutual fund which I estimate represents a market value of about $4.2 million.
This doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would you have a savings account six times as large as your investment account, especially if it's only insured up to $250,000 and, by your estimates, is only getting 0.1% interest? I'm admittedly not terribly familiar with dealing with wealth of these amounts, but that seems really weird to me.
posted by one_bean at 6:56 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
A republic, if you can keep it.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:57 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:57 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
interest of about $25,000 from a cash account at JP Morgan which I estimate represents about $25 million in cash deposits.
That seems off by an order of magnitude. It's not that hard to get 1% interest on cash which would make that $2.5 million.
posted by thefoxgod at 7:01 PM on August 12, 2016 [21 favorites]
That seems off by an order of magnitude. It's not that hard to get 1% interest on cash which would make that $2.5 million.
posted by thefoxgod at 7:01 PM on August 12, 2016 [21 favorites]
How do you fight the voter intimidation thing?
At this rate, states may have to start sending in their National Guard(s), with temporary federalizing of troops in non-compliant states like we did in Arkansas in 1957. Getting enough judges to overturn the completely predictably racist outcomes of Justice "I Was Literally Hired To Destroy The VRA" Roberts' decision in Shelby v. Holder would also help, as most (if not all) laws passed both before and since are coming under scrutiny for being blatant voter suppression tools and/or poll taxes.
In this case, elections matter for elections.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:02 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
At this rate, states may have to start sending in their National Guard(s), with temporary federalizing of troops in non-compliant states like we did in Arkansas in 1957. Getting enough judges to overturn the completely predictably racist outcomes of Justice "I Was Literally Hired To Destroy The VRA" Roberts' decision in Shelby v. Holder would also help, as most (if not all) laws passed both before and since are coming under scrutiny for being blatant voter suppression tools and/or poll taxes.
In this case, elections matter for elections.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:02 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Legal associations sometimes have election observer programs where lawyers can volunteer their time to be impartial polling place observers on election day.
As I remember, Election Protection does more than this -- they actually have a hotline you can call if you need help dealing with shenanigans. I do not know whether their volunteers wear capes, but the name alone makes them sound like a superhero from Schoolhouse Rock.
If you are an attorney, law student, paralegal or legal assistant, you can find out for yourself what the deal is with the cape.
posted by feral_goldfish at 7:02 PM on August 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
I hope once Hillary becomes president she keeps up a semi-regular podcast
You mean like the President's weekly address (previously the "weekly radio address")? It's a longstanding tradition. Jazzing it up into a more informal podcast style could be interesting; Obama made some changes to the format by adding video, and sometime under W they started publishing them as a podcast feed.
posted by zachlipton at 7:03 PM on August 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
You mean like the President's weekly address (previously the "weekly radio address")? It's a longstanding tradition. Jazzing it up into a more informal podcast style could be interesting; Obama made some changes to the format by adding video, and sometime under W they started publishing them as a podcast feed.
posted by zachlipton at 7:03 PM on August 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
But, like, what does he do with all his awakened hours? I have a good human non-parent sleep schedule of something like seven to nine hours a day, and I work a job and learn and learn things about the world and the people in it with me? How does he know and care so little? Seriously, what does he do with a day?
posted by lauranesson at 7:04 PM on August 12, 2016 [29 favorites]
posted by lauranesson at 7:04 PM on August 12, 2016 [29 favorites]
This doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would you have a savings account six times as large as your investment account, especially if it's only insured up to $250,000 and, by your estimates, is only getting 0.1% interest?
Yeah I think these estimates must be wrong. They must surely be earning more than 0.1%. I can get a better rate than that at my credit union. But having a few million in a cash account is probably not that unusual for the very rich, especially if you have a lot of ongoing expenses and need ready access to cash.
posted by dis_integration at 7:06 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah I think these estimates must be wrong. They must surely be earning more than 0.1%. I can get a better rate than that at my credit union. But having a few million in a cash account is probably not that unusual for the very rich, especially if you have a lot of ongoing expenses and need ready access to cash.
posted by dis_integration at 7:06 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Tweet at 3am, apparently.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:06 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:06 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Seriously, what does he do with a day?
Stare at a mirror to make sure his orange sheen is up to spec? Yell at Meredith? Take a riding crop to Chris Christie?
Upon preview:
Oh, right. Twitter.
posted by mordax at 7:07 PM on August 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
Stare at a mirror to make sure his orange sheen is up to spec? Yell at Meredith? Take a riding crop to Chris Christie?
Upon preview:
Oh, right. Twitter.
posted by mordax at 7:07 PM on August 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
Seriously, what does he do with a day?
Well, a good three hours per day goes to the care and feeding of the thing on top of his head.
posted by briank at 7:08 PM on August 12, 2016 [16 favorites]
Well, a good three hours per day goes to the care and feeding of the thing on top of his head.
posted by briank at 7:08 PM on August 12, 2016 [16 favorites]
Donald Trump's supporters are LESS likely to be affected by trade and immigration, not more
posted by homunculus at 7:09 PM on August 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 7:09 PM on August 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
Seriously, what does he do with a day?
I get the feeling it involves a lot of watching cable news and reading his Twitter stream.
posted by EarBucket at 7:10 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
I get the feeling it involves a lot of watching cable news and reading his Twitter stream.
posted by EarBucket at 7:10 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
Donald Trump's supporters are LESS likely to be affected by trade and immigration, not more
What they're interested in is using trade and immigration to hurt somebody else while they stand by an laugh.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:11 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
What they're interested in is using trade and immigration to hurt somebody else while they stand by an laugh.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:11 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
For any fence sitters, the ultimate endorsement is in: RuPaul on His First Emmy Nomination, Donald Trump, and Hillary Clinton:
What do you think about Hillary Clinton and the Democrats?posted by palindromic at 7:12 PM on August 12, 2016 [276 favorites]
[Laughs.] I fucking love them. I have always loved them. And let me just say this: If you're a politician — not just in Washington but in business and industry, you have to be a politician — there are a lot of things that you have to do that you're not proud of. There are a lot of compromises you have to make because it means that you can get this other thing over here. And if you think that you can go to fucking Washington and be rainbows and butterflies the whole time, you're living in a fucking fantasy world. So now, having said that, think about what a female has to do with that: All of those compromises, all of that shit, double it by ten. And you get to understand who this woman is and how powerful, persuasive, brilliant, and resilient she is. Any female executive, anybody who has been put to the side — women, blacks, gays — for them to succeed in a white-male-dominated culture is an act of brilliance. Of resilience, of grit, of everything you can imagine. So, what do I think of Hillary? I think she's fucking awesome. Is she in bed with Wall Street? Goddammit, I should hope so! You've got to dance with the devil. So which of the horrible people do you want? That's more of the question. Do you want a pompous braggart who doesn't know anything about diplomacy? Or do you want a badass bitch who knows how to get shit done? That's really the question.
states may have to start sending in their National Guard
Given that the military was recently polling 2-to-1 for Trump, that sounds in itself intimidating.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:15 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Given that the military was recently polling 2-to-1 for Trump, that sounds in itself intimidating.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:15 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
God, there are times when I really do love RuPaul. I know he's not perfect, but as he says, no one can judge him but Judy.
posted by erinfern at 7:15 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by erinfern at 7:15 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
Given that the military was recently polling 2-to-1 for Trump, that sounds in itself intimidating.
Oh, gross.
posted by tzikeh at 7:16 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh, gross.
posted by tzikeh at 7:16 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Seriously, what does he do with a day?
If he's like me, continuously hits refresh and chews another antacid? His Internet K-Hole is more mirrorlike than mine, but if there's one thing that makes him tragically human to me, it's that we're probably both online at 3am wondering where the evening went. Clinton is sound asleep.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 7:16 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
If he's like me, continuously hits refresh and chews another antacid? His Internet K-Hole is more mirrorlike than mine, but if there's one thing that makes him tragically human to me, it's that we're probably both online at 3am wondering where the evening went. Clinton is sound asleep.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 7:16 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
Does anyone else think that Trump might be trying to forfeit the election on purpose?
Many people have asked "if Trump were a Clinton plant, what would he do differently?"
posted by gyc at 7:16 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
Many people have asked "if Trump were a Clinton plant, what would he do differently?"
posted by gyc at 7:16 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
I bet Trump spends a lot of time combing his hairs
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:17 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:17 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
Many people have asked "if Trump were a Clinton plant, what would he do differently?"
Probably not gin up the idea that the entire democratic process is invalid if Clinton is elected.
posted by codacorolla at 7:18 PM on August 12, 2016 [97 favorites]
Probably not gin up the idea that the entire democratic process is invalid if Clinton is elected.
posted by codacorolla at 7:18 PM on August 12, 2016 [97 favorites]
Many people have asked "if Trump were a Clinton plant, what would he do differently?"
I don't think he'd incite violence if that were the case.
posted by Mitrovarr at 7:19 PM on August 12, 2016 [29 favorites]
I don't think he'd incite violence if that were the case.
posted by Mitrovarr at 7:19 PM on August 12, 2016 [29 favorites]
Who was it that interviewed him recently and found him unable to stop watching himself on TV? It was a print interview.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:20 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Countess Elena at 7:20 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Given that the military was recently polling 2-to-1 for Trump
Every result I can find for that is referring to a Military Times poll, which is a completely unscientific voluntary poll (like an Internet poll). I can't find any actual poll data on military support.
posted by thefoxgod at 7:20 PM on August 12, 2016 [17 favorites]
Every result I can find for that is referring to a Military Times poll, which is a completely unscientific voluntary poll (like an Internet poll). I can't find any actual poll data on military support.
posted by thefoxgod at 7:20 PM on August 12, 2016 [17 favorites]
This doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would you have a savings account six times as large as your investment account, especially if it's only insured up to $250,000 and, by your estimates, is only getting 0.1% interest? I'm admittedly not terribly familiar with dealing with wealth of these amounts, but that seems really weird to me.
For people in their late 60s they have plenty of money for a comfortable retirement, including likely half a million a year in pensions for the rest of their life and a generous inheritance for their grandchildren. They simply have no need to take risk in the stock market. Bill can pull down a spare half million any time he likes with a 30 minute speech.
As to the low interest rate, you simply don't get more than about 0.1% for large deposits in cash accounts in large banks or money market funds (back in 2015, by the way). Those higher rates you are citing are for limited amounts, not $25 million. Contrary to popular belief, there are no "special rates" for large depositors.
They aren't worried about the $250,000 FDIC insurance limits. That is why they put all their cash into a too big to fail bank.
posted by JackFlash at 7:21 PM on August 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
For people in their late 60s they have plenty of money for a comfortable retirement, including likely half a million a year in pensions for the rest of their life and a generous inheritance for their grandchildren. They simply have no need to take risk in the stock market. Bill can pull down a spare half million any time he likes with a 30 minute speech.
As to the low interest rate, you simply don't get more than about 0.1% for large deposits in cash accounts in large banks or money market funds (back in 2015, by the way). Those higher rates you are citing are for limited amounts, not $25 million. Contrary to popular belief, there are no "special rates" for large depositors.
They aren't worried about the $250,000 FDIC insurance limits. That is why they put all their cash into a too big to fail bank.
posted by JackFlash at 7:21 PM on August 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
(And a different unscientific poll claims that Johnson beats both Trump and Clinton among servicemembers)
posted by thefoxgod at 7:21 PM on August 12, 2016
posted by thefoxgod at 7:21 PM on August 12, 2016
Does anyone else think that Trump might be trying to forfeit the election on purpose?
Many people have asked "if Trump were a Clinton plant, what would he do differently?"
Trump lacks both the discretion and capacity for long-term planning for such a scenario.
posted by palindromic at 7:21 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
Many people have asked "if Trump were a Clinton plant, what would he do differently?"
Trump lacks both the discretion and capacity for long-term planning for such a scenario.
posted by palindromic at 7:21 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
I just tried to look up where tehhund actually was in the Threads and became inadvertently caught in an ouroboros hall of Trumpist mirrors DO NOT TRY AT HOME
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:22 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:22 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
As to the low interest rate, you simply don't get more than about 0.1% for large deposits in cash accounts in large banks or money market funds
Hmm, I know this is not true up to like $500k or so, so I'm dubious. Money market accounts can handle pretty large deposits and the rate is the same as long as you hit the minimum.
posted by thefoxgod at 7:23 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Hmm, I know this is not true up to like $500k or so, so I'm dubious. Money market accounts can handle pretty large deposits and the rate is the same as long as you hit the minimum.
posted by thefoxgod at 7:23 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also, I signed up to be a poll worker for elections, which also makes me personally feel a bit better. At least I can spot shenanigans in whatever corner of NYC they stick me in. Might be useful also to hear that the poll-worker training takes four hours here (down from six) and is real wrapped up in the undoing and redoing of plastic seals on machines and maybe low on the parts where you learn about affidavit ballots and whatnot. But there's a big old instruction book that I'll plow through a couple more times before the primaries in September here. Later come the generals.
It's not a good gig. I think the pay is 200 bucks for election-day work from 5am to 10-ish pm, but it kind of is ridiculously important to me that at least a singular nerd is in attendance to make sure that things go according to plan. And they are so desperate for poll workers that I stepped onto the bus to get back home from training and saw a bunch of ads about it. NYC Mefites, I hereby call you to arms.
posted by lauranesson at 7:24 PM on August 12, 2016 [44 favorites]
It's not a good gig. I think the pay is 200 bucks for election-day work from 5am to 10-ish pm, but it kind of is ridiculously important to me that at least a singular nerd is in attendance to make sure that things go according to plan. And they are so desperate for poll workers that I stepped onto the bus to get back home from training and saw a bunch of ads about it. NYC Mefites, I hereby call you to arms.
posted by lauranesson at 7:24 PM on August 12, 2016 [44 favorites]
peacheater: "NBC Nightly News: NEW: Donald Trump says only way Hillary Clinton can win Pennsylvania "is if cheating goes on;" does not specify if he is being sarcastic."
They should really just append that to the end of all reports about what Trump says.
posted by octothorpe at 7:24 PM on August 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
They should really just append that to the end of all reports about what Trump says.
posted by octothorpe at 7:24 PM on August 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
Who was it that interviewed him recently and found him unable to stop watching himself on TV? It was a print interview.
It was this WaPo interview with Philip Rucker, which is worth rereading.
posted by dis_integration at 7:25 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
It was this WaPo interview with Philip Rucker, which is worth rereading.
posted by dis_integration at 7:25 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
Thanks, JackFlash. That was really enlightening and lent a really useful, reality-based perspective to the "just wants to get rich" narrative. If anything, what's remarkable about HIllary is that she's actually chosen to spend her life and deploy her legal talents almost exclusively in public service. That's not the behavior of someone whose central goal is money. Speaking fees are one of their main sources of income, and given their roles as authors and leaders, I don't see much wrong with that. And now that you've broken it down for us - well, the Clintons do very well, but they are not among the global super-elite rich; many of us probably interact with doctors, lawyers, real estate brokers and bankers who do equally well or better, and that's worth knowing. Also, the 10% that you note matches the goals of tithe is probably no accident.
posted by Miko at 7:25 PM on August 12, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by Miko at 7:25 PM on August 12, 2016 [31 favorites]
Also also, poor Tehhund. When/if you get here, I would like to say that I like that your name is an internet/German version of "the dog," and thus maybe some kinda uber joke on, "On the internet..."
posted by lauranesson at 7:26 PM on August 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by lauranesson at 7:26 PM on August 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
The thing I worry the most about is 2020. Hillary will likely take the White House with all that that entails (foreign policy stay-the-course bad, domestic vaguely-liberal good) and see her huge victory as something indicating public approval. Then the Republicans will somehow position someone on-the-surface respectable next time, Hillary will get her clock cleaned electorally, and the R's candidate will turn out to be Bush III.
The country desperately needs to turn around in terms of foreign policy. We're going into our fifteenth year in Afghanistan, and the way it's looking we'll be there at least eight more. All that money, flushed down the drain, when it could be actually fixing our education system, or helping the poor, or improving our health care, or....
posted by JHarris at 7:28 PM on August 12, 2016 [18 favorites]
The country desperately needs to turn around in terms of foreign policy. We're going into our fifteenth year in Afghanistan, and the way it's looking we'll be there at least eight more. All that money, flushed down the drain, when it could be actually fixing our education system, or helping the poor, or improving our health care, or....
posted by JHarris at 7:28 PM on August 12, 2016 [18 favorites]
Tehhund appears to be in late July.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:28 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:28 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
On the internet, everyone knows Tehhund is dogged in election threads.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:28 PM on August 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:28 PM on August 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
flug researched the fascinating story of the bizarre Trumpchart-same-as-David-Duke-graphic phenomenon. The mystery deepens.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:28 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 7:28 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Gotta love Krugman's opening in today's NYT piece:
posted by zakur at 7:29 PM on August 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
By now, it’s obvious to everyone with open eyes that Donald Trump is an ignorant, wildly dishonest, erratic, immature, bullying egomaniac. On the other hand, he’s a terrible person.And Huffpo has a good round-up of Trump supporters’ excuses for his shitty poll numbers.
posted by zakur at 7:29 PM on August 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
I think that Trump's best and winning brain is telling his mouth that the only way to explain him not winning is people must be cheating. There is just no way his genius is not a winner.
Of course other people are saying it (Alex Jones et al) too so it must be true. Right? Therefore his mouth is spewing the words out without a whole lot of forethought. I'm not certain his brain is actually capable of much thought beyond how something directly affects him. He also doesn't give a shit about anyone or anything else. All he cares about is coming up with some way to explain away his loss that has nothing to do with himself. His brain has to be placated and soothed somehow and that's what we're watching occur.
posted by Jalliah at 7:29 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Of course other people are saying it (Alex Jones et al) too so it must be true. Right? Therefore his mouth is spewing the words out without a whole lot of forethought. I'm not certain his brain is actually capable of much thought beyond how something directly affects him. He also doesn't give a shit about anyone or anything else. All he cares about is coming up with some way to explain away his loss that has nothing to do with himself. His brain has to be placated and soothed somehow and that's what we're watching occur.
posted by Jalliah at 7:29 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Can someone please explain to me how Trump can have 41% of the popular vote in polls right now?
I understand why electoral college results are different from popular vote, hell we all got that education in 2000. I'm asking how he can have TWELVE PERCENT in electoral college but 41% of popular in current polling. that boggles my mind.
Also, for those who want predictions from someone with a better track record in this election than 538: Carl Diggler's predictions.
posted by shmegegge at 7:29 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
I understand why electoral college results are different from popular vote, hell we all got that education in 2000. I'm asking how he can have TWELVE PERCENT in electoral college but 41% of popular in current polling. that boggles my mind.
Also, for those who want predictions from someone with a better track record in this election than 538: Carl Diggler's predictions.
posted by shmegegge at 7:29 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
Donald seems to have an astounding lack of imagination, paired with his lack of curiosity about the world outside his narrow view. He never had any understanding of what the job of President means beyond maybe watching movies and accidentally catching a newsclip if it's on. He thinks being President means you get to say whatever you want, and people will have to do it. Like Putin. Like Harrison Ford in Air Force One, Bill Pullman in Independence Day. You know, it'll be like reality [sic] tv. He's probably never seen a press conference, so he's pissed that the press asks questions, and once in a while, a tough question. Of course he doesn't want this job, he'll be expected to work. He is in so far over his head, and he might be getting a glimmer of understanding that. His ego isn't going to let him really get it. I don't think he's terribly intelligent, but not actually stupid. So his brain must be working awfully hard to keep his illusions intact.
posted by theora55 at 7:30 PM on August 12, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 7:30 PM on August 12, 2016 [16 favorites]
You know, since his campaign is essentially a Jon Bois "breaking the presidential election" bit at this point... He should just go out there and tell all his followers to lie to pollsters. Tell 'em you're voting for Hillary. Get 'em going real good.
Even if they don't do it, it spreads maximum FUD and gives him a talking point if anyone brings up polls. Oh, 85% for Crooked Hillary? I'm not worried. You'll see on election day. [wink]
posted by ctmf at 7:30 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
Even if they don't do it, it spreads maximum FUD and gives him a talking point if anyone brings up polls. Oh, 85% for Crooked Hillary? I'm not worried. You'll see on election day. [wink]
posted by ctmf at 7:30 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
Lauranesson, I seriously have been thinking about signing up for poll work myself. I just need to have a conversation about that with my boss.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:31 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:31 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Seldom is it asked: who fucks the ratfuckers?
Angry Karl Rove blisters ‘impulsive’ Trump in epic rant: ‘Does he want to win?’:
Angry Karl Rove blisters ‘impulsive’ Trump in epic rant: ‘Does he want to win?’:
The former George W. Bush chief-of-staff grew visibly aggravated and launched into an increasingly angry tirade questioning whether Trump “wants to win.”posted by palindromic at 7:32 PM on August 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
“Yeah, well, you know what?” Rove began. “If he does that between now and the election, what do you think is going to happen? The Clinton campaign is going to provoke him everyday to stay off of message. And he is going to fall for all of these things and waste valuable time. Does he want to win or does he want to respond? If he wants to be the New Yorker and punch back at everybody who comes his way — fine! That’s an open invitation for everybody to come his way with things like this.”
Can someone please explain to me how Trump can have 41% of the popular vote in polls right now?
He's a Republican and they're Republicans. Party loyalty is a real thing. Also, people don't pay that much attention, so are not overwhelmed by the immensity of his horribleness. He's a man. He's a white man. He's not Hillary Clinton, who is very unpopular.
posted by dis_integration at 7:32 PM on August 12, 2016 [32 favorites]
He's a Republican and they're Republicans. Party loyalty is a real thing. Also, people don't pay that much attention, so are not overwhelmed by the immensity of his horribleness. He's a man. He's a white man. He's not Hillary Clinton, who is very unpopular.
posted by dis_integration at 7:32 PM on August 12, 2016 [32 favorites]
Reporters need to ask him explicitly and specifically if he is being sarcastic after every statement now.
posted by ctmf at 7:32 PM on August 12, 2016 [51 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 7:32 PM on August 12, 2016 [51 favorites]
Man, also I wanna say that NYC poll worker pay is better than it is almost anywhere. It's definitely above minimum wage, where it's I think mostly just voluntary elsewhere? So what I mean is that I call any and all Mefites that can to work the polls. Here, we just get one-day rich for doing so. Go get trained (or often not!) and work them polls and talk to normal voters like they are fellow humans.
posted by lauranesson at 7:35 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by lauranesson at 7:35 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
He's a Republican and they're Republicans. Party loyalty is a real thing.
but that doesn't explain the disparity. party loyalty would give him a much higher than 12% showing in electoral polling, right now. where does the disparity between 12 and 41 really come from? I've never heard of that much difference between electoral and popular vote before. ever.
posted by shmegegge at 7:37 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
but that doesn't explain the disparity. party loyalty would give him a much higher than 12% showing in electoral polling, right now. where does the disparity between 12 and 41 really come from? I've never heard of that much difference between electoral and popular vote before. ever.
posted by shmegegge at 7:37 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also his brain and body is really, really tired and part of it wants to sleep. Other parts are saying 'no you are a great and strong man you can not be tired. You must fight.' Since his brain also tells him how perfect and awesome he is it won't allow itself to admit weakness. Weak is bad. Weak is for losers. Hillary is a loser. Right?. Hilary is weak. She must be tired. Look she sleeps. Sleep is for the weak. Look at her weakness people. Sad.
Trump is running against himself and it's the oddest thing to watch play out.
posted by Jalliah at 7:38 PM on August 12, 2016 [35 favorites]
Trump is running against himself and it's the oddest thing to watch play out.
posted by Jalliah at 7:38 PM on August 12, 2016 [35 favorites]
Here's the NYC application. https://nyc.electiondayworker.com/r/2016
posted by lauranesson at 7:39 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by lauranesson at 7:39 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm inspired to sign up to work the polls, thanks. Of course, because digital government is so far behind, it's going to require me to wait 'til tomorrow and make a phone call to the city clerk. But I will do it. In an ideal world I'd be able to apply online or via email.
posted by Miko at 7:39 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Miko at 7:39 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
Clinton also released her new 2015 tax returns.
BUT WHAT ABOUT HER 2016 RETURNS WHAT IS SHE HIDING
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:40 PM on August 12, 2016 [26 favorites]
BUT WHAT ABOUT HER 2016 RETURNS WHAT IS SHE HIDING
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:40 PM on August 12, 2016 [26 favorites]
Also his brain and body is really, really tired and part of it wants to sleep. Other parts are saying 'no you are a great and strong man you can not be tired. You must fight.' Since his brain also tells him how perfect and awesome he is it won't allow itself to admit weakness. Weak is bad. Weak is for losers.
His campaign is my self-talk at the gym? This sudden realization is weird and frightening and I have to go lie down now.
posted by infinitywaltz at 7:40 PM on August 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
His campaign is my self-talk at the gym? This sudden realization is weird and frightening and I have to go lie down now.
posted by infinitywaltz at 7:40 PM on August 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
He's a Republican and they're Republicans. Party loyalty is a real thing.
but that doesn't explain the disparity. party loyalty would give him a much higher than 12% showing in electoral polling, right now. where does the disparity between 12 and 41 really come from? I've never heard of that much difference between electoral and popular vote before. ever.
He's not going to win 12% of the EVs. He has a 12% chance of getting past 270 and winning, that's all. Even if Clinton wins 350+ EVs Trump will still get around 200.
posted by dis_integration at 7:41 PM on August 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
but that doesn't explain the disparity. party loyalty would give him a much higher than 12% showing in electoral polling, right now. where does the disparity between 12 and 41 really come from? I've never heard of that much difference between electoral and popular vote before. ever.
He's not going to win 12% of the EVs. He has a 12% chance of getting past 270 and winning, that's all. Even if Clinton wins 350+ EVs Trump will still get around 200.
posted by dis_integration at 7:41 PM on August 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
And Huffpo has a good round-up of Trump supporters’ excuses for his shitty poll numbers.
I love that Newt has to go back to 1948 to find an example where polls called the election wrong.
posted by octothorpe at 7:41 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
I love that Newt has to go back to 1948 to find an example where polls called the election wrong.
posted by octothorpe at 7:41 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Reporters need to ask him explicitly and specifically if he is being sarcastic after every statement now.
Sure, but Hugh Hewitt already tried this [real]:
What's the point in asking him to apply real world [real] or [fake] tags to his own statements when he changes his mind on what's real and fake on a daily basis?
posted by zachlipton at 7:41 PM on August 12, 2016 [36 favorites]
Sure, but Hugh Hewitt already tried this [real]:
HH: I’ve got two more questions. Last night, you said the President was the founder of ISIS. I know what you meant. You meant that he created the vacuum, he lost the peace.He gave Trump a giant flaming exit sign, the voice of the fireman saying "it's going to be all right just crawl toward the light," and Trump instead plunged himself deeper into the flames. It was subsequent to this that Trump said he was being sarcastic, and then his spokeswomen tried to walk that back.
DT: No, I meant he’s the founder of ISIS. I do. He was the most valuable player. I give him the most valuable player award. I give her, too, by the way, Hillary Clinton.
HH: But he’s not sympathetic to them. He hates them. He’s trying to kill them.
DT: I don’t care. He was the founder. His, the way he got out of Iraq was that that was the founding of ISIS, okay?
What's the point in asking him to apply real world [real] or [fake] tags to his own statements when he changes his mind on what's real and fake on a daily basis?
posted by zachlipton at 7:41 PM on August 12, 2016 [36 favorites]
party loyalty would give him a much higher than 12% showing in electoral polling, right now. where does the disparity between 12 and 41 really come from?
Uh where are you getting the 12% number from? Are you confusing 538's probability of winning with poll numbers?
posted by speicus at 7:41 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Uh where are you getting the 12% number from? Are you confusing 538's probability of winning with poll numbers?
posted by speicus at 7:41 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Reporters need to ask him explicitly and specifically if he is being sarcastic after every statement now.
My thoughts exactly.
"Mr. Trump, are you being sarcastic?"
"No."
"Was that sarcastic?"
"No."
"How about now?"
"Maybe."
posted by octobersurprise at 7:41 PM on August 12, 2016 [81 favorites]
My thoughts exactly.
"Mr. Trump, are you being sarcastic?"
"No."
"Was that sarcastic?"
"No."
"How about now?"
"Maybe."
posted by octobersurprise at 7:41 PM on August 12, 2016 [81 favorites]
Probably not gin up the idea that the entire democratic process is invalid if Clinton is elected.
Well there's something going on. Believe me.
posted by gyc at 7:43 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well there's something going on. Believe me.
posted by gyc at 7:43 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
I've never heard of that much difference between electoral and popular vote before. ever.
In 1980 Reagan got 489 electoral votes with 50.7% of the vote. It's just math, man. If every single state voted for one candidate by 50.0000001%, that person would get 100% of the electoral votes.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:43 PM on August 12, 2016 [26 favorites]
In 1980 Reagan got 489 electoral votes with 50.7% of the vote. It's just math, man. If every single state voted for one candidate by 50.0000001%, that person would get 100% of the electoral votes.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:43 PM on August 12, 2016 [26 favorites]
In 1980 Reagan got 489 electoral votes with 50.7% of the vote. It's just math, man. If every single state voted for one candidate by 50.0000001%, that person would get 100% of the electoral votes.
Well, except that Nebraska and Maine are not winner-take-all. And I think DC is different too.
posted by dis_integration at 7:46 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
Well, except that Nebraska and Maine are not winner-take-all. And I think DC is different too.
posted by dis_integration at 7:46 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
Perhaps of some interest -- compare 538's blue vs. red map with the Nobody Lives There map (green=0% population).
posted by tzikeh at 7:47 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by tzikeh at 7:47 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
If every single state voted for one candidate by 50.0000001%, that person would get 100% of the electoral votes.
There's three states that allow splitting the electoral vote - but it looks like it's winner-take-all per-district, rather than proportional EV's, so a sufficiently smooth & creamy 50.000001% distribution would still result in a shutout.
posted by aubilenon at 7:47 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
There's three states that allow splitting the electoral vote - but it looks like it's winner-take-all per-district, rather than proportional EV's, so a sufficiently smooth & creamy 50.000001% distribution would still result in a shutout.
posted by aubilenon at 7:47 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, and in 1984 Mondale got 40% of the vote but only about 2.5% of the electoral vote. But I'd be surprised if we got a comparable result today. It's kind of weird how the red state/blue state thing seems to have ossified in the 90s and now we're stuck with it.
posted by speicus at 7:47 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by speicus at 7:47 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
His campaign is my self-talk at the gym? This sudden realization is weird and frightening and I have to go lie down now.
Yes if you listen to some of his speeches and interviews as if they are just his self talk being verbalized it does get really, really weird. Plus it kinda explains their disjointed nature.
I don't know about others but I know I don't self talk think in complete sentences and logically coherent blurbs.
posted by Jalliah at 7:47 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
Yes if you listen to some of his speeches and interviews as if they are just his self talk being verbalized it does get really, really weird. Plus it kinda explains their disjointed nature.
I don't know about others but I know I don't self talk think in complete sentences and logically coherent blurbs.
posted by Jalliah at 7:47 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
NBC Nightly News: NEW: Donald Trump says only way Hillary Clinton can win Pennsylvania "is if cheating goes on;" does not specify if he is being sarcastic.
The best response.
posted by wallabear at 7:48 PM on August 12, 2016 [44 favorites]
The best response.
posted by wallabear at 7:48 PM on August 12, 2016 [44 favorites]
Philly mefites, stand up!
Tue, Aug 16, 2016, 11:15am – 2:15pm
Pennsylvania Democratic Party Voter Registration Event with Hillary Clinton
posted by cashman at 7:48 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
Tue, Aug 16, 2016, 11:15am – 2:15pm
Pennsylvania Democratic Party Voter Registration Event with Hillary Clinton
posted by cashman at 7:48 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
"Was that sarcastic?"
"No."
"How about now?"
"Maybe."
Oh, I'm not being sarcastic! Nooo! This is just a little speech impediment. I can't help it!
posted by bibliowench at 7:49 PM on August 12, 2016 [19 favorites]
"No."
"How about now?"
"Maybe."
Oh, I'm not being sarcastic! Nooo! This is just a little speech impediment. I can't help it!
posted by bibliowench at 7:49 PM on August 12, 2016 [19 favorites]
Looking forward to Trump's pivot to 'I'm not touching you!'
posted by palindromic at 7:50 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by palindromic at 7:50 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
“Yeah, well, you know what?” Rove began. “If he does that between now and the election, what do you think is going to happen? The Clinton campaign is going to provoke him everyday to stay off of message.
*raises hand*
Mr. Rove? petebest, MeFi Threads; What message would that be, sir?
Are you being sarcastic?
posted by petebest at 7:51 PM on August 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
*raises hand*
Mr. Rove? petebest, MeFi Threads; What message would that be, sir?
Are you being sarcastic?
posted by petebest at 7:51 PM on August 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
What really strikes me about the Clinton tax return (per Jack Flash) is its simplicity. Those investments do not at all reflect people who are money hungry. Most of us try to maximize return ... at least, leverage our money to its best use.
A cash account and money in a 500 fund? That's beyond Spartan in its simplicity, and that speaks loudly to me about the values and goals of its holders.
posted by Dashy at 7:54 PM on August 12, 2016 [35 favorites]
A cash account and money in a 500 fund? That's beyond Spartan in its simplicity, and that speaks loudly to me about the values and goals of its holders.
posted by Dashy at 7:54 PM on August 12, 2016 [35 favorites]
I've never heard of that much difference between electoral and popular vote before. ever.
In 1984 Reagan got 58% of the popular vote and 98% of electoral votes. The discrepancy is the nature of winner-takes-all state electors.
posted by JackFlash at 7:54 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
In 1984 Reagan got 58% of the popular vote and 98% of electoral votes. The discrepancy is the nature of winner-takes-all state electors.
posted by JackFlash at 7:54 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
The JP Morgan account is probably in something like broker CD's which would get reasonable interest rates but spread out the risk over a number of banks.
posted by humanfont at 7:55 PM on August 12, 2016
posted by humanfont at 7:55 PM on August 12, 2016
Holy fuck, man. [WARNING: LINKS TO TRUMP WEBSITE] Actual volunteer form for 'election observer' role in trump campaign.
I'm sick to my stomach with this shit.
posted by codacorolla at 7:58 PM on August 12, 2016 [34 favorites]
I'm sick to my stomach with this shit.
posted by codacorolla at 7:58 PM on August 12, 2016 [34 favorites]
the R's candidate will turn out to be Bush III.
Bush II only made into office with a little shove from the Supreme Court which shouldn't be quite so motivated in 2020.
posted by srboisvert at 7:59 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
Bush II only made into office with a little shove from the Supreme Court which shouldn't be quite so motivated in 2020.
posted by srboisvert at 7:59 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
NBC Nightly News: NEW: Donald Trump says only way Hillary Clinton can win Pennsylvania "is if cheating goes on;" does not specify if he is being sarcastic.
The best response.
I want to favorite this so hard, wallabear, but the image of SO MUCH TRUMP wearing SO LITTLE SUIT forces me not to.
posted by mochapickle at 7:59 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
The best response.
I want to favorite this so hard, wallabear, but the image of SO MUCH TRUMP wearing SO LITTLE SUIT forces me not to.
posted by mochapickle at 7:59 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
A cash account and money in a 500 fund? That's beyond Spartan in its simplicity, and that speaks loudly to me about the values and goals of its holders.
To me, it says that Hillary Clinton really wants to be President, so she's going to have exceptionally clean and simple financials and remove them as a question in the campaign (being long on US stocks and the US Dollar are generally not considered bad things for a Presidential candidate). I don't think it says a ton about values and goals beyond that.
posted by zachlipton at 8:00 PM on August 12, 2016 [20 favorites]
To me, it says that Hillary Clinton really wants to be President, so she's going to have exceptionally clean and simple financials and remove them as a question in the campaign (being long on US stocks and the US Dollar are generally not considered bad things for a Presidential candidate). I don't think it says a ton about values and goals beyond that.
posted by zachlipton at 8:00 PM on August 12, 2016 [20 favorites]
Really tempted to fill out the Trump election observer form just to see what happens. I'm registered as a Democrat, but they're not organized enough to check that, right?
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:01 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:01 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
Is that "election observer" shit legal? In a better campaign they'd have been sure to run it by lawyers but here, God only knows
posted by Countess Elena at 8:03 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 8:03 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
I was just having the exact same thought.
posted by infinitywaltz at 8:03 PM on August 12, 2016
posted by infinitywaltz at 8:03 PM on August 12, 2016
A cash account and money in a 500 fund? That's beyond Spartan in its simplicity, and that speaks loudly to me about the values and goals of its holders.
I guess I take it more as evidence that two people who are insanely wealthy and have incredible earning potential just in giving talks don't really have any need to participate very much in rich-people money-into-more-money stuff. It looks bad.
Mostly it's just that they are already profoundly wealthy and have numerous options for making money any time they want simply by being them. They really don't need to do much to continue being fabulously wealthy. This is not bad, but it's not a mark in favor either.
posted by neonrev at 8:04 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
I guess I take it more as evidence that two people who are insanely wealthy and have incredible earning potential just in giving talks don't really have any need to participate very much in rich-people money-into-more-money stuff. It looks bad.
Mostly it's just that they are already profoundly wealthy and have numerous options for making money any time they want simply by being them. They really don't need to do much to continue being fabulously wealthy. This is not bad, but it's not a mark in favor either.
posted by neonrev at 8:04 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
It's kind of weird how the red state/blue state thing seems to have ossified in the 90s and now we're stuck with it.
A lot of that, I think, is plain old gerrymandering.
posted by Miko at 8:04 PM on August 12, 2016 [14 favorites]
A lot of that, I think, is plain old gerrymandering.
posted by Miko at 8:04 PM on August 12, 2016 [14 favorites]
I just want to say that two of the most fun days of my life were doing GOTV on election day in Richmond, VA in 2008 and Easton, PA in 2012. In both cases there were many lawyers standing by, eager to help.
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:04 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:04 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Has Katrina Pierson passed Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf yet for "most obviously insincere PR flack"?
posted by ctmf at 8:04 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 8:04 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
To me, it says that Hillary Clinton really wants to be President ....I don't think it says a ton about values and goals beyond that.
Even if that's true, I've just never seen any value in judging people for doing the right thing for the wrong reason.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 8:05 PM on August 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
Even if that's true, I've just never seen any value in judging people for doing the right thing for the wrong reason.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 8:05 PM on August 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
I think we need to look for the return of Terry Tate in our hour of need.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:05 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:05 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Really tempted to fill out the Trump election observer form just to see what happens. I'm registered as a Democrat, but they're not organized enough to check that, right?
Considering the RNC sent me (a registered Democrat who votes straight D) a census form/donation plea, no, I doubt they're organized enough to check.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:05 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
Considering the RNC sent me (a registered Democrat who votes straight D) a census form/donation plea, no, I doubt they're organized enough to check.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:05 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
I have these little dreams about making sure that whatever Trump observer is x-hundred feet away from a polling site and singing "Electioneering" in my head all day, but let's be clear that most of my time will be much better used in the NYC reality of making sure the not-ever-Trump people in my neighborhood (or one much like it) get every chance to cast their vote.
This is why I have amended the request for y'all real Americans to sign up, if you can, to work as election workers and polite those jerks to death if they appear. It seems really rude to leave it up to nice retired people who have polited enough in their time.
posted by lauranesson at 8:06 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
This is why I have amended the request for y'all real Americans to sign up, if you can, to work as election workers and polite those jerks to death if they appear. It seems really rude to leave it up to nice retired people who have polited enough in their time.
posted by lauranesson at 8:06 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
I don't think it says a ton about values and goals beyond that.
Whatever else it says, it says that the primary value is not maximizing personal income, which is more than we can say for many candidates present and past.
posted by Miko at 8:07 PM on August 12, 2016 [18 favorites]
Whatever else it says, it says that the primary value is not maximizing personal income, which is more than we can say for many candidates present and past.
posted by Miko at 8:07 PM on August 12, 2016 [18 favorites]
Do you really think money is a prime motivation for sane multimillionaire 60something old?
It hasn't slowed down Sen. Feinstein. Sure, she tosses her plums to her married-filing-separately husband but California is a Community Property state. Add the two together and they are obscenely rich.
And, no- I don't think Clinton's 2015 return shows anything but a carefully sanitized view. She's known for a few years what was coming and has had time to make 2015 look positively Simple Life.
posted by small_ruminant at 8:08 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
It hasn't slowed down Sen. Feinstein. Sure, she tosses her plums to her married-filing-separately husband but California is a Community Property state. Add the two together and they are obscenely rich.
And, no- I don't think Clinton's 2015 return shows anything but a carefully sanitized view. She's known for a few years what was coming and has had time to make 2015 look positively Simple Life.
posted by small_ruminant at 8:08 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
Being Canadian I am an outside observer of sorts. What Trump and his campaign are trying to set up right now with his whole rigged thing is horrible.
With the way that Hilary's campaign is being run so far I have a lot of confidence that she has people, good people, who are hyper aware of it and the potential for problems on election day. They will have a response of their own, even if it's some sort of observer of the observer thing and legal help up the wazoo. With what they've done so far I'd be very surprised if they didn't already have a strategy in place to meet this sort of crap head on. And even if they don't it seems she has people with enough competence to whip it up now.
posted by Jalliah at 8:10 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
With the way that Hilary's campaign is being run so far I have a lot of confidence that she has people, good people, who are hyper aware of it and the potential for problems on election day. They will have a response of their own, even if it's some sort of observer of the observer thing and legal help up the wazoo. With what they've done so far I'd be very surprised if they didn't already have a strategy in place to meet this sort of crap head on. And even if they don't it seems she has people with enough competence to whip it up now.
posted by Jalliah at 8:10 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
I can't believe it hasn't happened yet, but I bet Trump is going to screw up and say something stupid. Soon.
posted by AugustWest at 8:10 PM on August 12, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by AugustWest at 8:10 PM on August 12, 2016 [24 favorites]
Donald Trump says only way Hillary Clinton can win Pennsylvania "is if cheating goes on;"
He should totally hire Chiefy Kessler. Remember, that half-ass police Chief from some PA podunk town who was going to fight the Messicans on the border, then claimed to be a Fed Agent, then got fired. Last I heard he was still unemployed and his wife left him. So he definitely needs a purpose in life.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:10 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
He should totally hire Chiefy Kessler. Remember, that half-ass police Chief from some PA podunk town who was going to fight the Messicans on the border, then claimed to be a Fed Agent, then got fired. Last I heard he was still unemployed and his wife left him. So he definitely needs a purpose in life.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:10 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Holy fuck, man. [WARNING: LINKS TO TRUMP WEBSITE] Actual volunteer form for 'election observer' role in trump campaign.
Filled one out for WA State - which is 100% Vote By Mail. Just to see what'll happen. Naturally, I used a throwaway email address and name, and didn't include my phone or mailing address.
Suck it, Trump.
posted by spinifex23 at 8:12 PM on August 12, 2016 [20 favorites]
Filled one out for WA State - which is 100% Vote By Mail. Just to see what'll happen. Naturally, I used a throwaway email address and name, and didn't include my phone or mailing address.
Suck it, Trump.
posted by spinifex23 at 8:12 PM on August 12, 2016 [20 favorites]
has had time to make 2015 look positively Simple Life.
So what do you make of the previous 30 years and the CGI?
posted by Miko at 8:13 PM on August 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
So what do you make of the previous 30 years and the CGI?
posted by Miko at 8:13 PM on August 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
She's known for a few years what was coming and has had time to make 2015 look positively Simple Life.
You can go back and look at every one of her returns for the past 30-some years. There's nothing particularly different in there.
From looking at their previous returns, what is clear is that the Clinton's will be giving up about $20 million each year to serve in the Presidency. Easily $100 million of forgone money over one or two terms.
They ain't in this for the money.
posted by JackFlash at 8:15 PM on August 12, 2016 [101 favorites]
You can go back and look at every one of her returns for the past 30-some years. There's nothing particularly different in there.
From looking at their previous returns, what is clear is that the Clinton's will be giving up about $20 million each year to serve in the Presidency. Easily $100 million of forgone money over one or two terms.
They ain't in this for the money.
posted by JackFlash at 8:15 PM on August 12, 2016 [101 favorites]
Saving Mike Pence
Trump's complete unfitness and idiosyncrasies is going to let the rest of the Republican party walk away unscathed, no matter how much they supported, enabled and created the environment that allowed him to win. They're already acting like Mike Pence, Trump's fucking running mate, had no responsibility for any of it, hell he took one for the team. Good Ole Mike, he was out in Indiana anyway, it's a good thing he took the hit so Paul Ryan or Ted Cruz didn't have to do it.
Meanwhile Hilary is eagerly embracing any Republican willing to step a little towards the center line, she's thus far unwilling to hang Trump around their necks, which just bolsters the Republican serving narrative that Trump is sui generis, and they of course bear no responsibility whatsoever.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:16 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
Trump's complete unfitness and idiosyncrasies is going to let the rest of the Republican party walk away unscathed, no matter how much they supported, enabled and created the environment that allowed him to win. They're already acting like Mike Pence, Trump's fucking running mate, had no responsibility for any of it, hell he took one for the team. Good Ole Mike, he was out in Indiana anyway, it's a good thing he took the hit so Paul Ryan or Ted Cruz didn't have to do it.
Meanwhile Hilary is eagerly embracing any Republican willing to step a little towards the center line, she's thus far unwilling to hang Trump around their necks, which just bolsters the Republican serving narrative that Trump is sui generis, and they of course bear no responsibility whatsoever.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:16 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
Has Katrina Pierson passed Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf yet for "most obviously insincere PR flack"?
Can we make Baghdad Kat stick?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:17 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
Can we make Baghdad Kat stick?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:17 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'm kind of ... So what if they intentionally kept their finances clean and politically uncontroversial (as much as you can being rich)? Like isn't it kind of a smart thing to do if politics and public service is your life's work? Maybe also during much of the Arkansas years and (first) Whitehouse years they didn't really have time or interest to hyper-optimize their wealth gains?
posted by R343L at 8:18 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by R343L at 8:18 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
I have not looked at her previous returns so I'll take your word for it.
posted by small_ruminant at 8:19 PM on August 12, 2016
posted by small_ruminant at 8:19 PM on August 12, 2016
Re: observers: here is, at least, the (pdf version of the) NYC Poll Worker's Manual. The "Poll Watchers, Observers, and Media" pages are 12 and 13 in this format. It states what observers can and cannot do.
(ED here means "Election District," and BMD means "Ballot Marking Device," which is an accessibility alternative to the normal pencil-and-paper-and-then-scanner thing the city does.)
Relevant bit: "Each poll watcher must be certified in writing by one of the following: a candidate, a chairperson of a political committee, or a chairperson of an independent body. Each poll watcher must show a certificate for each Election District to the poll site Coordinator or Chairperson." (emphases in original)
The "each" Election District part matters because in my experience in the city, Assembly Districts might have a poll place encompassing multiple Election Districts, meaning they should have a few pieces of paper and not just one.
I promise I'll shut up about it after this. Sign up already!
posted by lauranesson at 8:20 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
(ED here means "Election District," and BMD means "Ballot Marking Device," which is an accessibility alternative to the normal pencil-and-paper-and-then-scanner thing the city does.)
Relevant bit: "Each poll watcher must be certified in writing by one of the following: a candidate, a chairperson of a political committee, or a chairperson of an independent body. Each poll watcher must show a certificate for each Election District to the poll site Coordinator or Chairperson." (emphases in original)
The "each" Election District part matters because in my experience in the city, Assembly Districts might have a poll place encompassing multiple Election Districts, meaning they should have a few pieces of paper and not just one.
I promise I'll shut up about it after this. Sign up already!
posted by lauranesson at 8:20 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
The fact that the Clinton's finances are completely above board and non-controversial is yet more evidence of the corrupt and rigged nature of our politics.
posted by Justinian at 8:21 PM on August 12, 2016 [136 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 8:21 PM on August 12, 2016 [136 favorites]
Is that "election observer" shit legal? In better campaign they'd have been sure to run it by lawyers but here, God only knows
The campaigns have sent election observers for as long as I've been aware of elections.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:22 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
The campaigns have sent election observers for as long as I've been aware of elections.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:22 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
So my wife's conservative parents got very upset recently when their catholic church was observed by filmmakers tied to a muslim community. It strikes me that for some observation is seen as intimidation when it involves those outside your tribe, and that this is not lost on Trump supporters.
posted by Bistle at 8:22 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Bistle at 8:22 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
Possibly needs joke tag Justinian.
posted by R343L at 8:23 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by R343L at 8:23 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Can I just ask someone to explain the jokes about Tehhund? Because I'm baffled, and I'm even more curious than I would have been because they apparently need no explanation.
posted by teponaztli at 8:23 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by teponaztli at 8:23 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
Possibly needs joke tag Justinian.
I was being sarcastic.
posted by Justinian at 8:26 PM on August 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
I was being sarcastic.
posted by Justinian at 8:26 PM on August 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
But not that sarcastic. /trump
posted by Justinian at 8:26 PM on August 12, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 8:26 PM on August 12, 2016 [27 favorites]
I think normally campaigns don't solicit election observers in quite so public and partisan ways. That is, local campaign organizers recruit them. It's not usually the candidate themself while in the next breath claiming the election might get stolen.
posted by R343L at 8:27 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by R343L at 8:27 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
Justinian: I was pretty sure but someone who hasn't been reading all these threads or who knows you might not get it. I mean. The entire election has me just jaw dropped and when the Onion can't really manage actual absurd jokes...
posted by R343L at 8:28 PM on August 12, 2016
posted by R343L at 8:28 PM on August 12, 2016
Can I just ask someone to explain the jokes about Tehhund?
I thought I did here.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:29 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
I thought I did here.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:29 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
(I think it's a common experience for prolific commentators in these threads to have noticed a series of favorites from them from a long time in the past and then investigating and realizing that they are reading the elections threads in order, and are still a ways back. I at least had that experience.)
When you get here Tehhund, whenever that is, just keep on truckin' through. I sincerely hope it gets better.)
posted by neonrev at 8:29 PM on August 12, 2016 [17 favorites]
When you get here Tehhund, whenever that is, just keep on truckin' through. I sincerely hope it gets better.)
posted by neonrev at 8:29 PM on August 12, 2016 [17 favorites]
The fact that the Clinton's finances are completely above board and non-controversial is yet more evidence of the corrupt and rigged nature of our politics.
Seriously, talk about there being no right answer. The accusation boils down to "she wants to be President and has for a while," which, like, how dare a person want that I guess?
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:30 PM on August 12, 2016 [62 favorites]
Seriously, talk about there being no right answer. The accusation boils down to "she wants to be President and has for a while," which, like, how dare a person want that I guess?
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:30 PM on August 12, 2016 [62 favorites]
Can I just ask someone to explain the jokes about Tehhund? Because I'm baffled, and I'm even more curious than I would have been because they apparently need no explanation.
Based on favorites activity, the MeFi user Tehhund is still somewhere back on DNC Day 2 or so trying to catch up with election threads, but has been very diligently working his way forward. He'll get here someday and we'd like to celebrate that day in advance.
Ironically, the more we make comments about Tehhund here, the father behind he gets. It's sort of an odd variant on the Sisyphus story really.
posted by zachlipton at 8:30 PM on August 12, 2016 [110 favorites]
Based on favorites activity, the MeFi user Tehhund is still somewhere back on DNC Day 2 or so trying to catch up with election threads, but has been very diligently working his way forward. He'll get here someday and we'd like to celebrate that day in advance.
Ironically, the more we make comments about Tehhund here, the father behind he gets. It's sort of an odd variant on the Sisyphus story really.
posted by zachlipton at 8:30 PM on August 12, 2016 [110 favorites]
Tehhund is unstuck in time
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:30 PM on August 12, 2016 [33 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:30 PM on August 12, 2016 [33 favorites]
And what a slog that must be, I can barely bring myself to load the '643 new posts' tabs and these threads are incredibly unhealthy and addictive to me. Doing it all, without social media context, in order seems incredible.
posted by neonrev at 8:32 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by neonrev at 8:32 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
Ohh, thanks for the explanations, everyone. That's actually pretty charming.
posted by teponaztli at 8:33 PM on August 12, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by teponaztli at 8:33 PM on August 12, 2016 [22 favorites]
To be clear, I wasn't saying that there was anything bad about the Clinton's finances being incredibly boring, just that they are clearly boring on purpose because she knew she wants to run for President and so she, in a typically professional fashion, ensured there would be nothing there to look at. They're swell, and I think they say "competent professional taking this issue off the table."
(And because earning a low rate of return on your investments isn't really a big deal if both you and your husband can speak your way to anything you might want to buy.)
posted by zachlipton at 8:35 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
(And because earning a low rate of return on your investments isn't really a big deal if both you and your husband can speak your way to anything you might want to buy.)
posted by zachlipton at 8:35 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
Reince Priebus: 'Don't Believe The Garbage You Read' About Trump
I hate to link Borowitz, but how is Reince at all different than "TRUMP BLASTS MEDIA FOR REPORTING THINGS HE SAYS"?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:41 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
I hate to link Borowitz, but how is Reince at all different than "TRUMP BLASTS MEDIA FOR REPORTING THINGS HE SAYS"?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:41 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
If you are an attorney, law student, paralegal or legal assistant, you can find out for yourself what the deal is with the cape.
posted by feral_goldfish at 9:02 PM on August 1
NO CAPES!
posted by Reverend John at 8:42 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by feral_goldfish at 9:02 PM on August 1
NO CAPES!
posted by Reverend John at 8:42 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
I don't think there's any real meat on those Tax Report bones. Regardless of any considerations for appearances, I really have a terribly difficult time imagining them having any reason at all to engage in any serious money making venture. They are already quite wealthy, have names and histories that all but guarantee future financial comfort for limited effort, and if they wanted to they could fuck off to a mountaintop mansion an emerge ten times a year to talk for 40 minutes and make far more money than the vast majority of people make in a year. It's like a non-issue.
Like, bully for them being so rich and choosing not to be complete money-grubbing assholes about it, but I also don't find solace in the narrative of the very wealthy and powerful seeking political power either. That's just business as usual.
This topic bores me to tears, makes me annoyed about money, and ugh.
posted by neonrev at 8:45 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
Like, bully for them being so rich and choosing not to be complete money-grubbing assholes about it, but I also don't find solace in the narrative of the very wealthy and powerful seeking political power either. That's just business as usual.
This topic bores me to tears, makes me annoyed about money, and ugh.
posted by neonrev at 8:45 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
I think that Trump's best and winning brain is telling his mouth that the only way to explain him not winning is people must be cheating. There is just no way his genius is not a winner.
It would be easy to take Republicans seriously about voter fraud if they'd accept UN or other independent oversight of elections, but there's no way that would happen, because it would show Republicans as the slimy, dishonest cheaters that they are.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 8:45 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
It would be easy to take Republicans seriously about voter fraud if they'd accept UN or other independent oversight of elections, but there's no way that would happen, because it would show Republicans as the slimy, dishonest cheaters that they are.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 8:45 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
I would just like to thank everyone in these threads. I'm stuck in a hotel room with my back acting up, taking too many meds to do much but reading these threads has kept me entertained. You are the best filter through which to experience this trainwreck.
posted by threeturtles at 8:48 PM on August 12, 2016 [29 favorites]
posted by threeturtles at 8:48 PM on August 12, 2016 [29 favorites]
Trump Spokeswoman Says He Was 'Very Serious' About Obama 'Founding ISIS':
When Pierson was first asked if Trump was being sarcastic, she replied, "yes and no."posted by kirkaracha at 8:51 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
Mod note: The Gospel According to Donald Trump:
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 8:52 PM on August 12, 2016 [35 favorites]
For the record, I do not think I am God. I believe in God. If God ever wanted an apartment in Trump Tower, I would immediately offer my best luxury suite at a very special price. I believe God is everywhere and in all of us, and I want every decision I make to reflect well on me when it’s time for me to go to that big boardroom in the sky. When I get permanently fired by the ultimate boss, I want the elevator to heaven to go up, not down.real
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 8:52 PM on August 12, 2016 [35 favorites]
The kind of people who think Trump's right about rigging the election probably already believe the UN is the headquarters of the New World Order and/or completely ineffectual. So I'm worried that nothing short of a landslide will make victory clear and send them grumbling back to their holes.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:52 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 8:52 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
༼ノಠل͟ಠ༽ノ-︵-┻━┻
posted by Justinian at 8:53 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 8:53 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
Jesus, they really don't know what they're doing any more, do they?
posted by yhbc at 8:53 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by yhbc at 8:53 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Donald Trump May Be Violating RNC Consent Decree Aimed at Voter Intimidation
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:53 PM on August 12, 2016 [38 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:53 PM on August 12, 2016 [38 favorites]
You are the best filter through which to experience this trainwreck.
I
feel strangely validated
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:54 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
I
feel strangely validated
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:54 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
Ah, hell, I wrote a really long and thought out thing about Trump talking about cheating and voter ID and long-term effects and how Demographics are Destiny has a dark side when the fading former majority doesn't acknowledge that they are no longer an assumed 'everybody' and political parties start trying to appeal directly to voters who do not look like them, but also that former majority lives in a largely segregated country and legitimately don't see POC or poor people on their day-to-day, and is thus inclined to believe false 'voting more than once' claims, and this giving 'evidence' to gin up concern over voter fraud, but then I started talking about the tax returns and it got lost to the sands of the clipboard.
Pretend like that stream of consciousness is multiple paragraphs with a thesis and examples and anecdotes and was actually kinda good. Dangit.
So I'm worried that nothing short of a landslide will make victory clear and send them grumbling back to their holes.
Part of my concern is that his whining about cheating might resonate with some people who either don't know or hate the fact that the US is increasingly less White Men with Wives and Jobs, and actually cause a major backlash because "No way does he lose that bad without SOMETHING fishy going on!"
posted by neonrev at 8:56 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
Pretend like that stream of consciousness is multiple paragraphs with a thesis and examples and anecdotes and was actually kinda good. Dangit.
So I'm worried that nothing short of a landslide will make victory clear and send them grumbling back to their holes.
Part of my concern is that his whining about cheating might resonate with some people who either don't know or hate the fact that the US is increasingly less White Men with Wives and Jobs, and actually cause a major backlash because "No way does he lose that bad without SOMETHING fishy going on!"
posted by neonrev at 8:56 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
it's clear that he has intent here, which is to make election day as messy and unpalatable as possible.
I agree with this, and it's been expressed in multiple ways. Trump has told his supporters to register for absentee ballots / early voting. He's also offered a completely bullshit description of Voter ID. (Remember, he votes in New York which has no early voting, complicated party registration rules, and requires filing an absentee ballot request with a good-faith excuse.) So his ideal scenario is that all those old white dudes vote early / absentee and head into the city to patrol Those People.
Of course, there'll be no organisation to do this, because Trump -- they're sending invites to the CT event to people in Maine, so how's that for targetting? -- but there's surely going to be some freelance bullshit.
posted by holgate at 8:58 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
I agree with this, and it's been expressed in multiple ways. Trump has told his supporters to register for absentee ballots / early voting. He's also offered a completely bullshit description of Voter ID. (Remember, he votes in New York which has no early voting, complicated party registration rules, and requires filing an absentee ballot request with a good-faith excuse.) So his ideal scenario is that all those old white dudes vote early / absentee and head into the city to patrol Those People.
Of course, there'll be no organisation to do this, because Trump -- they're sending invites to the CT event to people in Maine, so how's that for targetting? -- but there's surely going to be some freelance bullshit.
posted by holgate at 8:58 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Exit polling helps validate election results.
If there are polling people when you exit, talk to them.
posted by yesster at 8:58 PM on August 12, 2016 [14 favorites]
If there are polling people when you exit, talk to them.
posted by yesster at 8:58 PM on August 12, 2016 [14 favorites]
Hillary Clinton Vows To Do What Obama Hasn’t — Reschedule Marijuana:
“As president, Hillary will build on the important steps announced today by rescheduling marijuana from a Schedule I to a Schedule II substance,” she continued. “She will also ensure Colorado, and other states that have enacted marijuana laws, can continue to serve as laboratories of democracy.”posted by kirkaracha at 8:59 PM on August 12, 2016 [77 favorites]
CA will likely legalize weed this November. That's going to be an awful lot of tax revenue coming in. Yay, CA!
posted by Justinian at 9:03 PM on August 12, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 9:03 PM on August 12, 2016 [17 favorites]
Ironically, the more we make comments about Tehhund here, the father behind he gets. It's sort of an odd variant on the Sisyphus story really.
Tehhund's corollary to Zeno's paradox
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 9:03 PM on August 12, 2016 [20 favorites]
Tehhund's corollary to Zeno's paradox
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 9:03 PM on August 12, 2016 [20 favorites]
> Hillary Clinton Vows To Do What Obama Hasn’t — Reschedule Marijuana:
Well, I don't even see why Trump is going to bother visiting Oregon at all then.
posted by mrzarquon at 9:04 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
Well, I don't even see why Trump is going to bother visiting Oregon at all then.
posted by mrzarquon at 9:04 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
> If God ever wanted an apartment in Trump Tower, I would immediately offer my best luxury suite at a very special price.
This is clearly sarcasm. Trump's best luxury suite is obviously the one he's living in; God would have to make do with the second best. Which I'm sure is nevertheless very nice.
Also I'm not clear on what the point of offering God a discounted suite would be. If anyone's capable of paying whatever price you set, it'd be God, right? I mean, no wonder Trump's not a billionaire, with this kind of business sense. (Sad!)
posted by Spathe Cadet at 9:07 PM on August 12, 2016 [17 favorites]
This is clearly sarcasm. Trump's best luxury suite is obviously the one he's living in; God would have to make do with the second best. Which I'm sure is nevertheless very nice.
Also I'm not clear on what the point of offering God a discounted suite would be. If anyone's capable of paying whatever price you set, it'd be God, right? I mean, no wonder Trump's not a billionaire, with this kind of business sense. (Sad!)
posted by Spathe Cadet at 9:07 PM on August 12, 2016 [17 favorites]
> Hillary Clinton Vows To Do What Obama Hasn’t — Reschedule Marijuana:
In an unrelated story, both Johnson and Stein's poll numbers drop precipitously in favor of Clinton. [fake]
posted by nonasuch at 9:08 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
In an unrelated story, both Johnson and Stein's poll numbers drop precipitously in favor of Clinton. [fake]
posted by nonasuch at 9:08 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
Hi. I'm Steve. Is it safe to come out now?
posted by double block and bleed at 9:10 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by double block and bleed at 9:10 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
Nice to see Clinton going after the Reddit vote.
posted by Yowser at 9:12 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 9:12 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
All Steves please report to the decontamination room. All Steves please report to the decontamination room.
posted by salix at 9:15 PM on August 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by salix at 9:15 PM on August 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
anarch: "Strategic cheerleading for the lesser evil aside, let's be clear that there's nothing to be happy about in this election. Period. We do all know this, right?"
Maybe for you. As a former Bernie supporter, my opinion of Hillary Clinton has made a complete and sincere 180 in the past couple months.
I'm about 1000% sure after 10,000 comments on the subject, nobody here wants to relitigate Bernie vs. Hillary, so don't.
posted by double block and bleed at 9:20 PM on August 12, 2016 [100 favorites]
Maybe for you. As a former Bernie supporter, my opinion of Hillary Clinton has made a complete and sincere 180 in the past couple months.
I'm about 1000% sure after 10,000 comments on the subject, nobody here wants to relitigate Bernie vs. Hillary, so don't.
posted by double block and bleed at 9:20 PM on August 12, 2016 [100 favorites]
Can someone please explain to me how Trump can have 41% of the popular vote in polls right now?
Some of the people, all of the time.
posted by JHarris at 9:21 PM on August 12, 2016 [56 favorites]
Some of the people, all of the time.
posted by JHarris at 9:21 PM on August 12, 2016 [56 favorites]
It would be easy to take Republicans seriously about voter fraud if they'd accept UN or other independent oversight of elections, but there's no way that would happen, because it would show Republicans as the slimy, dishonest cheaters that they are.
There's no way it could happen because there is no common standard that election observers can use as a benchmark for monitoring. The US basically has 3000 or so separate elections -- 50+1 state laws with a lot of administrative authority devolved to the county board level -- and so it doesn't meet the basic requirement for anything other than limited advisory missions.
There's a real need for a new VRA that acknowledges the Article I powers that give Congress the ultimate constitutional authority over elections. If you look at the IPU's declaration on free and fair elections (the US is not an IPU member state) you'll see a lot of things that aren't particularly controversial in most developed nations, but simply don't apply to how America Does Electin'.
posted by holgate at 9:21 PM on August 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
There's no way it could happen because there is no common standard that election observers can use as a benchmark for monitoring. The US basically has 3000 or so separate elections -- 50+1 state laws with a lot of administrative authority devolved to the county board level -- and so it doesn't meet the basic requirement for anything other than limited advisory missions.
There's a real need for a new VRA that acknowledges the Article I powers that give Congress the ultimate constitutional authority over elections. If you look at the IPU's declaration on free and fair elections (the US is not an IPU member state) you'll see a lot of things that aren't particularly controversial in most developed nations, but simply don't apply to how America Does Electin'.
posted by holgate at 9:21 PM on August 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments deleted. Let's not jump back into "must everyone hate Clinton?" -- that's just not a place we need to go again.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:22 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:22 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
FYI, my estimate of how many posts the political megathreads have had from the RNC onward is approximately 30000.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:22 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:22 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
Hillary is an amazing candidate, and I am thrilled to vote for her.
Way past happy!!
posted by yesster at 9:23 PM on August 12, 2016 [28 favorites]
Way past happy!!
posted by yesster at 9:23 PM on August 12, 2016 [28 favorites]
We'll have several novels worth of comments by election day. And not, like, 1970s pulp paperback novels but GRRM size doorstoppers.
posted by Justinian at 9:24 PM on August 12, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 9:24 PM on August 12, 2016 [8 favorites]
Can someone please explain to me how Trump can have 41% of the popular vote in polls right now?
Some of the people, all of the time.
posted by zachlipton at 9:26 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Some of the people, all of the time.
"Half the people are stoned and the other half are waiting for the next election-- Paul Simon, as gifted to Leonard Bernstein
Half the people are drowned and the other half are swimming in the wrong direction."
posted by zachlipton at 9:26 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
how are you going to get redditors to the polls once they learn you can't downvote
posted by murphy slaw at 9:26 PM on August 12, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 9:26 PM on August 12, 2016 [31 favorites]
In an unrelated story, both Johnson and Stein's poll numbers drop precipitously in favor of Clinton. [fake]
Johnson, Stein: "legalize it"
Clinton: "treat it like cocaine instead of like heroin"
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 9:26 PM on August 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
Johnson, Stein: "legalize it"
Clinton: "treat it like cocaine instead of like heroin"
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 9:26 PM on August 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
I'd say that rescheduling cannabis is a lot more important than just appealing to Reddit dudebros. For starters, it might ease up a little bit on the whole racist carceral state chokehold. I suspect it would give the cartels less wiggle room, too. And beyond all that, the DEA's drug schedule classification is totally fucking ridiculous. Take a look at the rundown from DEA.gov:
Schedule I
Schedule I drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. Some examples of Schedule I drugs are: heroin, LSD, cannabis, MDMA, methaqualone, and peyote
Schedule II
Schedule II drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a high potential for abuse, with use potentially leading to severe psychological or physical dependence. These drugs are also considered dangerous. Some examples of Schedule II drugs are: Vicodin, cocaine, methamphetamine, methadone, Dilaudid, Demerol, oxycodone, fentanyl, Dexedrine, Adderall, and Ritalin
Schedule III
Schedule III drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a moderate to low potential for physical and psychological dependence. Schedule III drugs abuse potential is less than Schedule I and Schedule II drugs but more than Schedule IV. Some examples of Schedule III drugs are: Products containing less than 90 milligrams of codeine per dosage unit (Tylenol with codeine), ketamine, anabolic steroids, testosterone
So, um. Notice anything weird about those classifications? Does it seem like, oh, maybe 80% of those drugs are being flagrantly misclassified? I was disappointed that Obama's DEA is keeping cannabis at Schedule I, and I'm quite pleased that Clinton is at least talking about nudging this list toward sanity and evidence-based, non-moralizing policy.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 9:31 PM on August 12, 2016 [39 favorites]
Schedule I
Schedule I drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. Some examples of Schedule I drugs are: heroin, LSD, cannabis, MDMA, methaqualone, and peyote
Schedule II
Schedule II drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a high potential for abuse, with use potentially leading to severe psychological or physical dependence. These drugs are also considered dangerous. Some examples of Schedule II drugs are: Vicodin, cocaine, methamphetamine, methadone, Dilaudid, Demerol, oxycodone, fentanyl, Dexedrine, Adderall, and Ritalin
Schedule III
Schedule III drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a moderate to low potential for physical and psychological dependence. Schedule III drugs abuse potential is less than Schedule I and Schedule II drugs but more than Schedule IV. Some examples of Schedule III drugs are: Products containing less than 90 milligrams of codeine per dosage unit (Tylenol with codeine), ketamine, anabolic steroids, testosterone
So, um. Notice anything weird about those classifications? Does it seem like, oh, maybe 80% of those drugs are being flagrantly misclassified? I was disappointed that Obama's DEA is keeping cannabis at Schedule I, and I'm quite pleased that Clinton is at least talking about nudging this list toward sanity and evidence-based, non-moralizing policy.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 9:31 PM on August 12, 2016 [39 favorites]
> Johnson, Stein: "legalize it"
Clinton: "treat it like cocaine instead of like heroin"
And don't mess with the states that have legalized it. Thus setting the stage for greater decriminalization. Unlike alcohol, which was only under prohibition for 13 years, marijuana has quite a few decades (and a generation or two) of criminalization behind it to shift.
posted by mrzarquon at 9:33 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
Clinton: "treat it like cocaine instead of like heroin"
And don't mess with the states that have legalized it. Thus setting the stage for greater decriminalization. Unlike alcohol, which was only under prohibition for 13 years, marijuana has quite a few decades (and a generation or two) of criminalization behind it to shift.
posted by mrzarquon at 9:33 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
Sterling Archer 2016 campaign t-shirts now available in a limited edition release. Available in two colors, which aren't quite "black and slightly darker black," but are darn close.
posted by zachlipton at 9:34 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:34 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
i'd be more likely to vote for johnson if I didn't suspect that his dismantling of the DEA wouldn't be accompanied by similar treatment of the FDA and the EPA…
posted by murphy slaw at 9:34 PM on August 12, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 9:34 PM on August 12, 2016 [34 favorites]
Speaking of cannabis, I just hope Tehhund isn't reading these while stoned. I mean can you even imagine? It'd be like that time I got high and decided to watch some of those Buzzfeed Try Guys videos (don't judge) and the very first one I clicked on happened to be the one that begins with Eugene looking directly into the camera and saying "Okay, I'm going to take my shirt off for you, YOUTUBE" and I knew in an instant that he had looked into the depths of my soul and seen the uncleanness there. I mean the events of this year alone are already enough to make you think you're losing it, and then as you make your way through the election threads random people start cheering your progress? Duuuuuude.
posted by sunset in snow country at 9:34 PM on August 12, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by sunset in snow country at 9:34 PM on August 12, 2016 [20 favorites]
it's been well established that lsd leads to jam bands, and if that's not abuse I don't know what is
posted by murphy slaw at 9:39 PM on August 12, 2016 [69 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 9:39 PM on August 12, 2016 [69 favorites]
i'd be more likely to vote for johnson if I didn't suspect that his dismantling of the DEA wouldn't be accompanied by similar treatment of the FDA and the EPA…
and the Department of Education, and the Social Security Administration.....
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 9:40 PM on August 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
and the Department of Education, and the Social Security Administration.....
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 9:40 PM on August 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
Speaking of cannabis, I just hope Tehhund isn't reading these while stoned. I mean can you even imagine?
You mean the rest of you people are sober when reading this? How on earth do you manage?
posted by neonrev at 9:40 PM on August 12, 2016 [8 favorites]
You mean the rest of you people are sober when reading this? How on earth do you manage?
posted by neonrev at 9:40 PM on August 12, 2016 [8 favorites]
Another thought: it's been noted that these evening rallies in places like Altoona are bringing out a kind of weariness, which may be down to the polls or Trump's physical capacity for the long campaign, but I think it's also because Mr NYC Penthouse / Florida country club / etc. is actually starting to dislike the small/medium-sized cities that he's having to campaign in and pretend to champion, even though he's filling venues.
(Pence gets to commute from New Mexico to New Hampshire next week. Trump's going 40-odd miles from Milwaukee to West Bend on Tuesday, both evening events. West Bend will get the "yadda yadda, when can I fly back to NYC" rally.)
posted by holgate at 9:41 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
(Pence gets to commute from New Mexico to New Hampshire next week. Trump's going 40-odd miles from Milwaukee to West Bend on Tuesday, both evening events. West Bend will get the "yadda yadda, when can I fly back to NYC" rally.)
posted by holgate at 9:41 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
these days i rely on election coverage to grant me that pervasive sense of unreality that i used to get from bong hits
posted by murphy slaw at 9:41 PM on August 12, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 9:41 PM on August 12, 2016 [18 favorites]
We'll have several novels worth of comments by election day. And not, like, 1970s pulp paperback novels but GRRM size doorstoppers.
Game of Drones
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:42 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
Game of Drones
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:42 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
Are you saying LSD doesn't have a high potential for abuse?
In my acid days I always knew who the lizardoids were. Undoubtedly, that is an election year skill to cultivate.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:44 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
In my acid days I always knew who the lizardoids were. Undoubtedly, that is an election year skill to cultivate.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:44 PM on August 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
yesster: Exit polling helps validate election results. If there are polling people when you exit, talk to them.
Not if they've got an AK-47 strapped to their back. No thank you.
posted by tzikeh at 9:45 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Not if they've got an AK-47 strapped to their back. No thank you.
posted by tzikeh at 9:45 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
I just went to check my post history to see that Tehhund is now only a week behind! We're rooting for you. And here's a pup with Trump hair for your dedication and trouble. <3
posted by stolyarova at 9:46 PM on August 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by stolyarova at 9:46 PM on August 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
i'd be more likely to vote for johnson if I didn't suspect that his dismantling of the DEA wouldn't be accompanied by similar treatment of the FDA and the EPA…
LBJ took the IRT
Down to 4th Street USA
When he got there, what did he see
The youth of America on LSD
posted by salix at 9:46 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
LBJ took the IRT
Down to 4th Street USA
When he got there, what did he see
The youth of America on LSD
posted by salix at 9:46 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
well what really scares me is those peyote addicts holding up liquor stores and having peyote babies
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 9:47 PM on August 12, 2016 [30 favorites]
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 9:47 PM on August 12, 2016 [30 favorites]
Greg Nog: " Does it seem like, oh, maybe 80% of those drugs are being flagrantly misclassified?
Are you saying LSD doesn't have a high potential for abuse? I'm sick to death of all the Beatles I see outside of my front door each morning, sprawled across the sidewalk and desperately begging for one little set of tracers to tide them over so they can see Lucy sky some diamonds"
I decided I was done with hallucinogenics after a long talk with the giant spider with the purple bow tie and banjo.
posted by double block and bleed at 9:49 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Are you saying LSD doesn't have a high potential for abuse? I'm sick to death of all the Beatles I see outside of my front door each morning, sprawled across the sidewalk and desperately begging for one little set of tracers to tide them over so they can see Lucy sky some diamonds"
I decided I was done with hallucinogenics after a long talk with the giant spider with the purple bow tie and banjo.
posted by double block and bleed at 9:49 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Can anyone explain what sense it possibly makes to group marijuana in with cocaine, meth, and a host of opioids, instead of with heroin and some super-psychedelics? Seems painfully silly either way.
posted by anarch at 9:53 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by anarch at 9:53 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Mod note: Another few deleted. I'm sorry, I know folks are joking in a friendly way with this, but maybe let's not fill up this whole thread with notes to Tehhund -- we don't know how they'll feel about it, probably better to leave it at that for now.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:54 PM on August 12, 2016 [25 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:54 PM on August 12, 2016 [25 favorites]
The Clinton's probably keep their investments and financials simple because their lives are already complicated enough.
posted by humanfont at 9:55 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 9:55 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Can anyone explain what sense it possibly makes to group marijuana in with cocaine, meth, and a host of opioids, instead of with heroin and some super-psychedelics? Seems painfully silly either way.
The depressing realization that the world is totally out of touch with reality and needs gentle shifting to make it comfortable moving towards anything like fair and reasonable from it's current utter horrors. Damned near everything is a painfully silly compromise, but people better at this than me tell me that's how it's gotta be, so I guess that's how it's gotta be.
posted by neonrev at 9:56 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
The depressing realization that the world is totally out of touch with reality and needs gentle shifting to make it comfortable moving towards anything like fair and reasonable from it's current utter horrors. Damned near everything is a painfully silly compromise, but people better at this than me tell me that's how it's gotta be, so I guess that's how it's gotta be.
posted by neonrev at 9:56 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Many people are saying Trump won't release his tax returns because he's hiding something. What do you think it is?
Hilldawg trolls with only the freshest memes.
posted by Yowser at 9:58 PM on August 12, 2016 [23 favorites]
Hilldawg trolls with only the freshest memes.
posted by Yowser at 9:58 PM on August 12, 2016 [23 favorites]
There should be an "all of the above" choice.
posted by Justinian at 10:01 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 10:01 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
Can anyone explain what sense it possibly makes to group marijuana in with cocaine, meth, and a host of opioids
It's acknowledging that "no currently accepted medical use" is just plain untrue for cannabis in 2016, and the FDA (not the DEA) regulates drugs. Small steps.
posted by holgate at 10:01 PM on August 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
It's acknowledging that "no currently accepted medical use" is just plain untrue for cannabis in 2016, and the FDA (not the DEA) regulates drugs. Small steps.
posted by holgate at 10:01 PM on August 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
I have to say, after spending 1.5 years lurking on this site, I finally realized that it was high time to make a Metafilter account when, in the span of 12 hours, I recommended these election threads to two separate people and described them as "the only things keeping me sane in this election season... but also a massive abyss that's sucking up all my productivity."
So thanks for all the mindless internet looping, guys.
posted by the wine-dark sea at 10:02 PM on August 12, 2016 [143 favorites]
So thanks for all the mindless internet looping, guys.
posted by the wine-dark sea at 10:02 PM on August 12, 2016 [143 favorites]
No, but seriously, thanks for making this awesome community. I'm glad to finally be a part of it. I just wish it could be during better times.
posted by the wine-dark sea at 10:02 PM on August 12, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by the wine-dark sea at 10:02 PM on August 12, 2016 [34 favorites]
The Clinton's probably keep their investments and financials simple because their lives are already complicated enough.
For the complicated stuff, there's the family Foundation. (Also where almost all the claimed charitable donations went.)
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 10:03 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
For the complicated stuff, there's the family Foundation. (Also where almost all the claimed charitable donations went.)
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 10:03 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Welcome n00b!
posted by stet at 10:05 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by stet at 10:05 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Welcome, you wine-dark formulaic epithet. You're welcome here.
posted by lauranesson at 10:07 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by lauranesson at 10:07 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
Nope. The Foundation's financials are also uncomplicated and available online.
posted by humanfont at 10:13 PM on August 12, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 10:13 PM on August 12, 2016 [26 favorites]
The thing about drug scheduling is that "no medical use" kinda automatically gets Schedule I (if it's also any fun), even if it's relatively harmless. Of course even beyond weed psychedelics and such absolutely could have medical use, so it's stupid on all sorts of counts, but really a lot of things in Schedule I shouldn't be scheduled at all.
Even if you did want cannabis to remain a controlled substance for some reason Schedule II is also silly though. I mean benzos are schedule IV for chrissake.
posted by atoxyl at 10:15 PM on August 12, 2016 [8 favorites]
Even if you did want cannabis to remain a controlled substance for some reason Schedule II is also silly though. I mean benzos are schedule IV for chrissake.
posted by atoxyl at 10:15 PM on August 12, 2016 [8 favorites]
Holy fuck, man. [WARNING: LINKS TO TRUMP WEBSITE] Actual volunteer form for 'election observer' role in trump campaign.
Filled one out for WA State - which is 100% Vote By Mail. Just to see what'll happen. Naturally, I used a throwaway email address and name, and didn't include my phone or mailing address.
Suck it, Trump.
posted by spinifex23
I'm way behind in this thread but please post their response. Thanks!
Sorry for the big-ass link, I'm gonna cop a Hillary and get some sleep.
posted by wallabear at 10:20 PM on August 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
Filled one out for WA State - which is 100% Vote By Mail. Just to see what'll happen. Naturally, I used a throwaway email address and name, and didn't include my phone or mailing address.
Suck it, Trump.
posted by spinifex23
I'm way behind in this thread but please post their response. Thanks!
Sorry for the big-ass link, I'm gonna cop a Hillary and get some sleep.
posted by wallabear at 10:20 PM on August 12, 2016 [12 favorites]
Oh my god, if "copping a Hillary" can really become a new slang term for going to bed, it can be my birthday present AND my Christmas present!
posted by infinitywaltz at 10:22 PM on August 12, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by infinitywaltz at 10:22 PM on August 12, 2016 [17 favorites]
I usually don't read the small fonts because I'm old and lazy, but I scanned that and read "I'm going to top Hillary and get some sleep", which is cool and all, but maybe not necessary to share.
posted by bongo_x at 10:27 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by bongo_x at 10:27 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
You're welcome, and I sincerely apologize.
posted by wallabear at 10:29 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by wallabear at 10:29 PM on August 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Clinton doesn't sleep; she waits.
posted by Yowser at 10:30 PM on August 12, 2016 [41 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 10:30 PM on August 12, 2016 [41 favorites]
Anyone topping Orangina, on the other hand, please, I'm all ears.
posted by riverlife at 10:34 PM on August 12, 2016
posted by riverlife at 10:34 PM on August 12, 2016
Anyone topping Orangina, on the other hand, please, I'm all ears.
Well, I always thought they should make a V8-style drink and call it Vegina.
posted by snofoam at 10:39 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
Well, I always thought they should make a V8-style drink and call it Vegina.
posted by snofoam at 10:39 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
For the complicated stuff, there's the family Foundation. (Also where almost all the claimed charitable donations went.)
The Clinton Family Foundation is actually a separate entity from the Clinton Foundation and is supremely uncomplicated; the last 10 pages or so of the 2014 return list all the random charities they supported, plus the Clinton Foundation which received about half of the total contributions that year.
posted by acidic at 10:40 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
The Clinton Family Foundation is actually a separate entity from the Clinton Foundation and is supremely uncomplicated; the last 10 pages or so of the 2014 return list all the random charities they supported, plus the Clinton Foundation which received about half of the total contributions that year.
posted by acidic at 10:40 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
So far, I got a thank you email, and that 'someone will be contacting me shortly'.
I hope they like talking to 'Dbag' at 1-206-555-1234.... (I checked ahead; the number is unused and gives a 'disconnected' message when called.)
posted by spinifex23 at 10:46 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
I hope they like talking to 'Dbag' at 1-206-555-1234.... (I checked ahead; the number is unused and gives a 'disconnected' message when called.)
posted by spinifex23 at 10:46 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
Warning of election fraud, Trump sparks fear that his backers may intimidate minority voters
posted by homunculus at 10:46 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 10:46 PM on August 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
Man, McMuffin's obviously got this in the bag anyway. Why don't we all just pack it in and go home?
posted by Itaxpica at 10:49 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Itaxpica at 10:49 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
I would vote for an actual literal McMuffin to be President before I'd vote for DJT.
posted by stolyarova at 10:53 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by stolyarova at 10:53 PM on August 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
Dirt, Jam, & Tomato?
posted by aubilenon at 10:56 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by aubilenon at 10:56 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
McGuffin?
posted by rp at 11:25 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by rp at 11:25 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
plus the Clinton Foundation which received about half of the total contributions that year.
Someone (not here) called it labyrinthine, but if the Clintons didn't give any of their own money to their own charity, people would complain that if it was such a great charity why aren't they putting their money in it?
posted by nom de poop at 11:29 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
Someone (not here) called it labyrinthine, but if the Clintons didn't give any of their own money to their own charity, people would complain that if it was such a great charity why aren't they putting their money in it?
posted by nom de poop at 11:29 PM on August 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
Actual McGuffin Evan McMullin
posted by mmoncur at 11:41 PM on August 12, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by mmoncur at 11:41 PM on August 12, 2016 [14 favorites]
if the Clintons didn't give any of their own money to their own charity, people would complain that if it was such a great charity why aren't they putting their money in it?
Would people really be saying that? I think it's probably a tax write-off, which, whatever. If that's the sketchiest thing in their taxes it's fine. I had exactly zero expectation that there would be something fishy, and it's not a surprise that their taxes are just rich people taxes. It would be painfully boring if not for the huge sums of money involved.
Anyway, if you're cynical you could say they cleaned up for election season, but eh, if that's the case it would just be another example of something she's smarter at than Trump. She released them because Trump won't, because Trump seems like the kind of person who wouldn't even bother trying to tidy up his taxes before running.
posted by teponaztli at 11:42 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Would people really be saying that? I think it's probably a tax write-off, which, whatever. If that's the sketchiest thing in their taxes it's fine. I had exactly zero expectation that there would be something fishy, and it's not a surprise that their taxes are just rich people taxes. It would be painfully boring if not for the huge sums of money involved.
Anyway, if you're cynical you could say they cleaned up for election season, but eh, if that's the case it would just be another example of something she's smarter at than Trump. She released them because Trump won't, because Trump seems like the kind of person who wouldn't even bother trying to tidy up his taxes before running.
posted by teponaztli at 11:42 PM on August 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Stately, plump Evan McMulligan
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:44 PM on August 12, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:44 PM on August 12, 2016 [26 favorites]
My more wing-nutty facebook friends have been on a tear lately about how Hillary Clinton apparently leaves a trail of mysterious murders and suicides everywhere she goes. I don't argue with them. It's interesting to see the right-wing propaganda machine in action. The narrative seems to be that she will destroy anyone who tries to get in her way, which fits neatly with the "election is rigged" garbage from Trump.
2016 is truly The Year of the Ratfuck.
posted by double block and bleed at 11:45 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
2016 is truly The Year of the Ratfuck.
posted by double block and bleed at 11:45 PM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Dirt, Jam, & Tomato?
Coincidentally, the title of an episode of The Young Ones .
[this is fake]
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:45 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
Coincidentally, the title of an episode of The Young Ones .
[this is fake]
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:45 PM on August 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
The Clinton Family Foundation is actually a separate entity from the Clinton Foundation and is supremely uncomplicated; the last 10 pages or so of the 2014 return list all the random charities they supported.
Yep, the Family Foundation is just a convenient container for their charity contributions. They toss a million or two dollars into the Family Foundation each year and then the Foundation doles out a few thousand dollars to each of the 60 or so charities they support.
It's an interesting list. Typical stuff like the WAMU public radio in Washington DC probably to make them stop the annoying pledge week. The American Heart Association. NAACP of Hot Springs, AK. Their Yale, Wellesley and Sidwell Friends alma maters. Hey, the Chappaqua Volunteer Ambulance Corp. A lot of charities in Little Rock, including Hippy USA (Home Instruction for Parents of Preschool Youngsters).
And then you get into the conspiracy bait. The Ron Brown Scholar Fund, which is obviously hush money for the family survivors. And finally the Rose Hill Cemetery Association in Arkansas where all the bodies are buried.
posted by JackFlash at 11:46 PM on August 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
Yep, the Family Foundation is just a convenient container for their charity contributions. They toss a million or two dollars into the Family Foundation each year and then the Foundation doles out a few thousand dollars to each of the 60 or so charities they support.
It's an interesting list. Typical stuff like the WAMU public radio in Washington DC probably to make them stop the annoying pledge week. The American Heart Association. NAACP of Hot Springs, AK. Their Yale, Wellesley and Sidwell Friends alma maters. Hey, the Chappaqua Volunteer Ambulance Corp. A lot of charities in Little Rock, including Hippy USA (Home Instruction for Parents of Preschool Youngsters).
And then you get into the conspiracy bait. The Ron Brown Scholar Fund, which is obviously hush money for the family survivors. And finally the Rose Hill Cemetery Association in Arkansas where all the bodies are buried.
posted by JackFlash at 11:46 PM on August 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
Anyway, if you're cynical you could say they cleaned up for election season.
Going all the way back to 1977? That's foresight!
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:59 PM on August 12, 2016 [37 favorites]
Going all the way back to 1977? That's foresight!
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:59 PM on August 12, 2016 [37 favorites]
Would people really be saying that?
I wanna live in your universe where there's something recognized as too petty to criticize Hillary Clinton about.
posted by nom de poop at 12:06 AM on August 13, 2016 [61 favorites]
I wanna live in your universe where there's something recognized as too petty to criticize Hillary Clinton about.
posted by nom de poop at 12:06 AM on August 13, 2016 [61 favorites]
he best "who said it" game would be Trump vs. L Ron Hubbard. Recently rekindled my long interest in Scientology.
Russell Miller's Bare-Faced Messiah changed my life.
Never has a book made my jaw hit the table as often.
posted by rokusan at 12:23 AM on August 13, 2016 [11 favorites]
Russell Miller's Bare-Faced Messiah changed my life.
Never has a book made my jaw hit the table as often.
posted by rokusan at 12:23 AM on August 13, 2016 [11 favorites]
You mean the rest of you people are sober when reading this? How on earth do you manage? -- neonrev
Do you mean at the start or the end of the thread? Because... different.
posted by rokusan at 12:25 AM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
Do you mean at the start or the end of the thread? Because... different.
posted by rokusan at 12:25 AM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
Going all the way back to 1977? That's foresight!
How deep does this thing go?
posted by stet at 12:27 AM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
How deep does this thing go?
posted by stet at 12:27 AM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump Encourages His Supporters to Patrol Polling Places
Too late to trademark Orange Panthers?
posted by rokusan at 12:29 AM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
Too late to trademark Orange Panthers?
posted by rokusan at 12:29 AM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
^^Kingsman joke, not some weird-assed homophobic, misogynistic bullshit. It's too late at night for me.
posted by stet at 12:34 AM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by stet at 12:34 AM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: The best filter through which to experience this trainwreck.
posted by quinndexter at 12:52 AM on August 13, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by quinndexter at 12:52 AM on August 13, 2016 [19 favorites]
> You mean the rest of you people are sober when reading this? How on earth do you manage? -- neonrev
Do you mean at the start or the end of the thread? Because... different.
Remember: comment while drunk. Frantically edit during the five minute window while sober.
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:08 AM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
Do you mean at the start or the end of the thread? Because... different.
Remember: comment while drunk. Frantically edit during the five minute window while sober.
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:08 AM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
There are 33,497 surviving comments in all of the election threads since the start of the RNC 26 days ago. During that time, there have been about 54,470 comments total on the blue. That means that over 61% of all comments since the RNC have been in election threads, at an average rate of about 1,288 comments per day, or about 0.9 comments per minute.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 3:42 AM on August 13, 2016 [57 favorites]
posted by J.K. Seazer at 3:42 AM on August 13, 2016 [57 favorites]
There are 33,497 surviving comments in all of the election threads since the start of the RNC 26 days ago. During that time, there have been about 54,470 comments total on the blue. That means that over 61% of all comments since the RNC have been in election threads, at an average rate of about 1,288 comments per day, or about 0.9 comments per minute.
Mefites begin to post at a geometric rate.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:30 AM on August 13, 2016 [26 favorites]
Mefites begin to post at a geometric rate.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:30 AM on August 13, 2016 [26 favorites]
If we don't, we'd run around screaming our heads off like the orange faced freak.
posted by infini at 4:48 AM on August 13, 2016
posted by infini at 4:48 AM on August 13, 2016
Prediction: DJT criticizes Hillary for not being smart enough to use tax loopholes.
posted by DanSachs at 4:51 AM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by DanSachs at 4:51 AM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
I have to say, after spending 1.5 years lurking on this site, I finally realized that it was high time to make a Metafilter account when, in the span of 12 hours, I recommended these election threads to two separate people and described them as "the only things keeping me sane in this election season... but also a massive abyss that's sucking up all my productivity."
Yes but do you believe your friends think you sane or insane after such disclosure
posted by polymodus at 4:55 AM on August 13, 2016
Yes but do you believe your friends think you sane or insane after such disclosure
posted by polymodus at 4:55 AM on August 13, 2016
Yesterday I was driving past the cemetery where Matilda Joslyn Gage lies and thought I'd drive in and give her a "cheers!"
After I did so, I spotted an elderly woman walking the cemetery with trekking sticks and greeted her. "It's a beautiful morning," I commented, "and I thought I'd remind Tilly that soon we'll have a woman in the White House! She'd be so happy and proud."
The woman made a very sour face.
"I'm glad someone will be happy."
Suddenly I was yanked backward to the 60s when I was always finding "No Third Term" stickers at my grandparents' homes. When I asked what they meant, someone would inevitably say something mean about Mrs. Roosevelt "sticking her neck out" into things that "weren't her business." Sadly, this sort of sexism still exists. I'm starting to call this sort of thing "The Eleanor Effect."
posted by kinnakeet at 4:59 AM on August 13, 2016 [52 favorites]
After I did so, I spotted an elderly woman walking the cemetery with trekking sticks and greeted her. "It's a beautiful morning," I commented, "and I thought I'd remind Tilly that soon we'll have a woman in the White House! She'd be so happy and proud."
The woman made a very sour face.
"I'm glad someone will be happy."
Suddenly I was yanked backward to the 60s when I was always finding "No Third Term" stickers at my grandparents' homes. When I asked what they meant, someone would inevitably say something mean about Mrs. Roosevelt "sticking her neck out" into things that "weren't her business." Sadly, this sort of sexism still exists. I'm starting to call this sort of thing "The Eleanor Effect."
posted by kinnakeet at 4:59 AM on August 13, 2016 [52 favorites]
The only thing helping me to sleep at night vis-a-vis his voter intimidation rhetoric is that no way is his campaign organized enough to actually have a targeted strategy or send people to particular places in an organized way. His supporters tend to be like him: big talkers, not much with action. And the vast majority of them won't want to bother going in to the scaaaaary "certain places" where "those people" live on a work day and stuff. Doesn't mean there won't be some freelance Y'all Quaeda wannabes and I hope they get run out on a rail by election staff, but I'd be way more concerned if the Trump campaign had, like, any kind of a ground game whatsoever.
Meanwhile, I finally got an invite for Hillary volunteering that's on a weekend so I can actually go! Saddle up!
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:26 AM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
Meanwhile, I finally got an invite for Hillary volunteering that's on a weekend so I can actually go! Saddle up!
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:26 AM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
WaPo: Ah to be a Fly on the Wall at the RNC-Trump Meeting
posted by valetta at 5:33 AM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
"Short of pulling the financing on Trump or Priebus resigning — which are both measures we favor — what could the RNC and top Republicans do at this point? They shouldn’t beg Trump to get on message or “stick to the script.” That’s absurd, an impossibility. Trump cannot distinguish between what is sane-sounding and what is not; he won’t stay off TV. "Apologies if article has been linked earlier. But as Mike the Cool One says, who can tell? These are complicated threads.
posted by valetta at 5:33 AM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
The fact that the Clinton's finances are completely above board and non-controversial is yet more evidence of the corrupt and rigged nature of our politics.
I know this is supposed to be a joke, but Clinton and her husband have become multimillionaires giving 30 minute speeches to bankers, big business, and other wealthy and powerful interest groups. the fact that this is totally legal and declared on their "boring" taxes is evidence that the society that is going to put her in the highest elected office is completely corrupt.
But what is even more amazing is that people in this thread can look at a couple who made close to 6 mil in income last year and declare their taxes to be "Spartan" or their income evidence of people who aren't interested in money. Are you all that rich, so used to tech Babylon, that 6 million is nothing?
posted by ennui.bz at 5:46 AM on August 13, 2016 [18 favorites]
I know this is supposed to be a joke, but Clinton and her husband have become multimillionaires giving 30 minute speeches to bankers, big business, and other wealthy and powerful interest groups. the fact that this is totally legal and declared on their "boring" taxes is evidence that the society that is going to put her in the highest elected office is completely corrupt.
But what is even more amazing is that people in this thread can look at a couple who made close to 6 mil in income last year and declare their taxes to be "Spartan" or their income evidence of people who aren't interested in money. Are you all that rich, so used to tech Babylon, that 6 million is nothing?
posted by ennui.bz at 5:46 AM on August 13, 2016 [18 favorites]
the fact that this (giving speeches to bankers) is totally legal and declared on their "boring" taxes is evidence that the society that is going to put her in the highest elected office is completely corrupt.
And that cats are sleeping with dogs and children are running manically through the streets. And that the First Amendment is still in existence.
Can we end this derail? I was bored of it when I heard it from the Bernie bros on my Facebook feed, and I'm even more bored of it now.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:51 AM on August 13, 2016 [68 favorites]
And that cats are sleeping with dogs and children are running manically through the streets. And that the First Amendment is still in existence.
Can we end this derail? I was bored of it when I heard it from the Bernie bros on my Facebook feed, and I'm even more bored of it now.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:51 AM on August 13, 2016 [68 favorites]
Or maybe we feel there are bigger fish to fry than being het up about famous people getting legally paid a lot to legally talk to other people and then doing very boring, legal things with that money? I mean, I love a good complete burning down and salting the earth of the underpinnings of an entire society as much as the next person, but let's focus for a little bit.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:54 AM on August 13, 2016 [94 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:54 AM on August 13, 2016 [94 favorites]
I know this is supposed to be a joke, but Clinton and her husband have become multimillionaires giving 30 minute speeches to bankers, big business, and other wealthy and powerful interest groups. the fact that this is totally legal and declared on their "boring" taxes is evidence that the society that is going to put her in the highest elected office is completely corrupt.
Fees for speeches in America are utterly ridiculous. Granted. But Hillary Clinton's $200,000 speeches just put her in the same category of speaker as Blake Lively and Larry the Cable Guy. Which means it's not evidence society is completely corrupt in the sense of pay for legal but in the sense of there being too much inequality and some people having a ridiculous amount of money to waste.
posted by Francis at 6:00 AM on August 13, 2016 [79 favorites]
Fees for speeches in America are utterly ridiculous. Granted. But Hillary Clinton's $200,000 speeches just put her in the same category of speaker as Blake Lively and Larry the Cable Guy. Which means it's not evidence society is completely corrupt in the sense of pay for legal but in the sense of there being too much inequality and some people having a ridiculous amount of money to waste.
posted by Francis at 6:00 AM on August 13, 2016 [79 favorites]
I know this is supposed to be a joke, but Clinton and her husband have become multimillionaires giving 30 minute speeches to bankers, big business, and other wealthy and powerful interest groups. the fact that this is totally legal and declared on their "boring" taxes is evidence that the society that is going to put her in the highest elected office is completely corrupt.
You don't have a problem with Clinton's honesty, you have a problem with capitalism. She is literally one of the best people in the world at giving speeches and talking to people because that's what politicians do. That's why she has a very good shot at being the president. Because she is good at those things.
Now it sucks that the people who can hire the best of the best are by definition the rich and elite, and not nonprofits and organizations with shoestring budgets trying to do good in the world. But that is a feature of capitalism, not feature of any particular person's honesty.
Blaming individuals for systemic problems is useless.
Blaming someone who has shown an interest in fixing some of those problems is worse than useless.
posted by Zalzidrax at 6:03 AM on August 13, 2016 [136 favorites]
You don't have a problem with Clinton's honesty, you have a problem with capitalism. She is literally one of the best people in the world at giving speeches and talking to people because that's what politicians do. That's why she has a very good shot at being the president. Because she is good at those things.
Now it sucks that the people who can hire the best of the best are by definition the rich and elite, and not nonprofits and organizations with shoestring budgets trying to do good in the world. But that is a feature of capitalism, not feature of any particular person's honesty.
Blaming individuals for systemic problems is useless.
Blaming someone who has shown an interest in fixing some of those problems is worse than useless.
posted by Zalzidrax at 6:03 AM on August 13, 2016 [136 favorites]
In my career one of the things I do is book speakers, sometimes high-profile ones. The highest I have ever paid is $50K, but you'd be surprised how common that level is - NPR hosts and bestselling authors can easily get that. If speaking fees were my major source of income, I would certainly charge as high a fee as I could command (even while making exceptions for pro bono speeches) and that would mean few organizations could afford me. There's nothing corrupt about it, it's SOP. This is a pretty good writeup on her speaking fees and what she does with them. She has waived her fee on several occasions, such as commencement speeches and local events. Sexism is also at play in critiquing her speaking fees.
posted by Miko at 6:18 AM on August 13, 2016 [117 favorites]
posted by Miko at 6:18 AM on August 13, 2016 [117 favorites]
From personal experience, introducing a friend to Metafilter through one of the massive DNC threads did not turn out as I had hoped. I have found these threads to be the only way I can take this election season, while my friend was completely overwhelmed by them. I should have gone easier on him. Cats in copiers, taters, and rescues of people from their own bathrooms and such.
posted by thebrokedown at 6:20 AM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 6:20 AM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
I mentioned this in one of the older threads but I was at one of these talks to "special interest groups" that you mentioned. It was a Simmons Women's Leadership event, sponsored by many companies including my own. I got to sit at a table with some women execs very close to the stage and I've no doubt my company paid handsomely for the privilege. The room was full of top corporate executives. For all that, the speech was totally innocuous. She talked about her motivations to an extremely sympathetic audience. This was just before she officially started running so it felt like a mini stump speech. I'm sure she enjoyed basking in that 67% approval rating before her ratings plummeted as soon as she officially started running.
People love to talk about that Goldman Sachs speech like it's some smoking gun, but notice that it's also for some women's leadership type group. Hillary Clinton is one of the world's foremost experts on how to survive in a man's world and she, not surprisingly, is paid extremely well for her speeches on the topic.
Finally, companies are not monoliths. An audience of Goldman employees is likely to have at least some people who are left wing who would go straight to the press if Clinton said anything remotely compromising.
posted by peacheater at 6:28 AM on August 13, 2016 [74 favorites]
People love to talk about that Goldman Sachs speech like it's some smoking gun, but notice that it's also for some women's leadership type group. Hillary Clinton is one of the world's foremost experts on how to survive in a man's world and she, not surprisingly, is paid extremely well for her speeches on the topic.
Finally, companies are not monoliths. An audience of Goldman employees is likely to have at least some people who are left wing who would go straight to the press if Clinton said anything remotely compromising.
posted by peacheater at 6:28 AM on August 13, 2016 [74 favorites]
I can't believe it hasn't happened yet, but I bet Trump is going to screw up and say something stupid. Soon.
*Cries*
[highpitchedwhinyvoice] I can't tell if it's real, fake, or sarcastic (but not that sarcastic)! [/highpitchedwhinyvoice]
*Chortles*
posted by petebest at 6:29 AM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
*Cries*
[highpitchedwhinyvoice] I can't tell if it's real, fake, or sarcastic (but not that sarcastic)! [/highpitchedwhinyvoice]
*Chortles*
posted by petebest at 6:29 AM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
How many days till the election is done with and we can think Supreme Court?
posted by Postroad at 6:31 AM on August 13, 2016
posted by Postroad at 6:31 AM on August 13, 2016
How many days till the election is done with and we can think Supreme Court?
If Democrats win the Senate? January 3rd. If the Democrats don't win the Senate? Never.
posted by Talez at 6:39 AM on August 13, 2016 [19 favorites]
If Democrats win the Senate? January 3rd. If the Democrats don't win the Senate? Never.
posted by Talez at 6:39 AM on August 13, 2016 [19 favorites]
Also, for anyone parsing a certain PR flunkie's name incorrectly:
KATE PIERSON: AWESOME
KATRINA PIERSON: NOT AWESOME
posted by petebest at 6:43 AM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
KATE PIERSON: AWESOME
KATRINA PIERSON: NOT AWESOME
posted by petebest at 6:43 AM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
Great news. You must donate in order to get details on how to become a Trump election bully. Also, there is no way to cancel your recurring donation once it's set up.
This may help keep the Goon Squad numbers down.
posted by stolyarova at 6:47 AM on August 13, 2016 [16 favorites]
This may help keep the Goon Squad numbers down.
posted by stolyarova at 6:47 AM on August 13, 2016 [16 favorites]
Crying baby Trump
Sassy Trump: Obama founded ISIS
posted by petebest at 6:55 AM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Great news. You must donate in order to get details on how to become a Trump election bully. Also, there is no way to cancel your recurring donation once it's set up.
Totally Not A Grift there
posted by the phlegmatic king at 7:02 AM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
Totally Not A Grift there
posted by the phlegmatic king at 7:02 AM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
I still sincerely think the whole Hillary Clinton six figure payoff for speeches to bankers thing is super sketchy and corrupt-sounding.
I am also not angry at all about any other politician's speaking fees because no one has ever brought this up about any other politician to this degree, as far as I know, and as I participate in this thread there's no need to mention that I pay pretty close attention to politics.
What does this mean?
It means that I have been propagandized.
If you're reading this, particularly if you're male: put your thumb real hard on the scale. We're thoroughly compromised.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:05 AM on August 13, 2016 [81 favorites]
I am also not angry at all about any other politician's speaking fees because no one has ever brought this up about any other politician to this degree, as far as I know, and as I participate in this thread there's no need to mention that I pay pretty close attention to politics.
What does this mean?
It means that I have been propagandized.
If you're reading this, particularly if you're male: put your thumb real hard on the scale. We're thoroughly compromised.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:05 AM on August 13, 2016 [81 favorites]
So I spent the last ten minutes writing another disappointed email to the NPR Ombudsman about their false equivalency this election season. Last time, they did respond - to their credit - but only to casually dismiss my concerns. I quoted Dan Rather at them this time, and it's good stuff, so I'll quote it at you, too:
posted by stolyarova at 7:11 AM on August 13, 2016 [59 favorites]
Our Bill of Rights may protect Trump's lies, but it does not mean he should be allowed to get away with them. That is the role of a free and independent press, to separate out the truth. And here is where we must beware of false equivalencies. Many have construed Hillary Clinton's statements about her email server as lies. And critics also point to other statements from her past where she has been perhaps less than truthful. Clinton should be held accountable for those statements. The press should vigorously question her and investigate where the truth lies. But the sheer amount of the verbal fertilizer being spewed by Trump must not be reported as a "he said, she said."Holding Trump accountable for his bullshit is good citizenship. I wish more journalists would do their goddamn jobs.
Calling him on it is not partisanship, it's citizenship.
posted by stolyarova at 7:11 AM on August 13, 2016 [59 favorites]
Pieces of Silver
By now, it’s obvious to everyone with open eyes that Donald Trump is an ignorant, wildly dishonest, erratic, immature, bullying egomaniac. On the other hand, he’s a terrible person. But despite some high-profile defections, most senior figures in the Republican Party — very much including Paul Ryan, the speaker of the House, and Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader — are still supporting him, threats of violence and all. Why?posted by tonycpsu at 7:17 AM on August 13, 2016 [35 favorites]
[...]
But there’s a third answer, which can be summarized in one number: 34.
What’s that? It’s the Congressional Budget Office’s estimate of the average federal tax rate for the top 1 percent in 2013, the latest year available. And it’s up from just 28.2 in 2008, because President Obama allowed the high-end Bush tax cuts to expire and imposed new taxes to pay for a dramatic expansion of health coverage under the Affordable Care Act. Taxes on the really, really rich have gone up even more.
If Hillary Clinton wins, taxes on the elite will at minimum stay at this level, and may even go up significantly if Democrats do well enough in congressional races to enable her to pass new legislation. The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center estimates that her tax plan would raise the average tax rate for the top 1 percent by another 3.4 percentage points, and the rate for the top 0.1 percent by five points.
But if “populist” Donald Trump wins, taxes on the wealthy will go way down; in particular, Mr. Trump is calling for elimination of the inheritance tax, which these days hits only a tiny number of really yuuuge estates (a married couple doesn’t pay any tax unless its estate is worth more than $10.9 million).
So if you’re wealthy, or you’re someone who has built a career by reliably serving the interests of the wealthy, the choice is clear — as long as you don’t care too much about stuff like shunning racism, preserving democracy and freedom of religion, or for that matter avoiding nuclear war, Mr. Trump is your guy.
And that’s pretty much how the Republican establishment still sees it. Getting rid of the estate tax is “the linchpin of the conservative movement,” one major donor told Bloomberg’s Sahil Kapur. Gotta get those priorities straight.
I am also not angry at all about any other politician's speaking fees because no one has ever brought this up about any other politician to this degree, as far as I know, and as I participate in this thread there's no need to mention that I pay pretty close attention to politics.
What does this mean?
It means that I have been propagandized.
If you're reading this, particularly if you're male: put your thumb real hard on the scale. We're thoroughly compromised.
For the record it hasn't been brought up in regard to any other politician because they aren't allowed to do it while actually holding office. Hillary Clinton only picked up speaker fees after she left the State Department. Bill Clinton only picked up speaker fees after he left the White House. George W Bush started as a speaker in 2009 and has made tens of millions of dollars with a six figure speaking fee.
And yes, we are compromised. The best we can do to uncompromise ourselves is dig and rebut the scandals.
posted by Francis at 7:20 AM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
What does this mean?
It means that I have been propagandized.
If you're reading this, particularly if you're male: put your thumb real hard on the scale. We're thoroughly compromised.
For the record it hasn't been brought up in regard to any other politician because they aren't allowed to do it while actually holding office. Hillary Clinton only picked up speaker fees after she left the State Department. Bill Clinton only picked up speaker fees after he left the White House. George W Bush started as a speaker in 2009 and has made tens of millions of dollars with a six figure speaking fee.
And yes, we are compromised. The best we can do to uncompromise ourselves is dig and rebut the scandals.
posted by Francis at 7:20 AM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
Working at the polls: check your state's guidelines, the money you earn may be tax-free and may not count towards income for disability benefits purposes (which is how San Francisco county does it and I think the rest of California.) In SF you don't have to be a citizen and you need not be a registered voter or in any particular party; you make about $180, more for speaking a needed language, more for being a supervisor, and more for babysitting the bag of ballots the weekend before the election. If you can drive, you can make more and be busier all day as a supplies runner.
The way I figure, 12 hour day plus 3 hour training= 14 hours after 2 30 minute unpaid lunches, 11 hours at minimum wage, 3 hours at overtime, assuming SF minimum wage $12.25= $189.85 value. You get paid around that or higher as a pollworker in SF, plus it's not taxable, so it's more than fair. At the time I was in SF, I was making $12.55/hour before taxes, plus I could take a vacation day or call out sick and essentially double my day's take. If you're in a state where the minimum wage is lower, do the math and see if it's worth it to you. If you don't care about the money, I'm sure there is a charity you like that likes money.
In NY you must be registered to either R or D to work most jobs, but if you're Green like me until after this year anyway (I want to reregister D but also want to avoid any instances of my registration being challenged prior to November) you can still work (I am an "accessibility clerk" this year. I put up the outside signs and sit by the ADA entrance to make sure people can get in.) You make much more money but I don't know about the tax and income situation.
Either way, here is what will happen: you will go to a short class that is interesting the first time, but super boring every year afterwards. They give you a manual on how everything works and who to call if it doesn't work. You show up to your poll site and rush around getting everything ready; nothing happens for hours and you chat with a random group of senior citizens, underpaid adults like yourself, and senior high school kids who had the bright idea of signing up for this to get out of a day of school but also get paid. And sometimes random voters who hang out and chat. (Once a lady showed us videos of her pet teacup pig!!!)
You get a lot of reading done in between voters. There's a rush after work hours. Someone gets super fuckin' mad about the list of voters posted outside the polling place, which we're required to do by state law and have been for years, so you'd think it would not be a surprise? But whatever, it's a break from the long stretches of nothing. The last two hours are divided into rushing around getting everything broken down and swept up, and standing around waiting for the sheriff to come get the ballots. It's the easiest job you'll ever do and it's oddly rewarding. Plus you get to give stickers to all kids, which is always rewarding.
posted by blnkfrnk at 7:24 AM on August 13, 2016 [36 favorites]
The way I figure, 12 hour day plus 3 hour training= 14 hours after 2 30 minute unpaid lunches, 11 hours at minimum wage, 3 hours at overtime, assuming SF minimum wage $12.25= $189.85 value. You get paid around that or higher as a pollworker in SF, plus it's not taxable, so it's more than fair. At the time I was in SF, I was making $12.55/hour before taxes, plus I could take a vacation day or call out sick and essentially double my day's take. If you're in a state where the minimum wage is lower, do the math and see if it's worth it to you. If you don't care about the money, I'm sure there is a charity you like that likes money.
In NY you must be registered to either R or D to work most jobs, but if you're Green like me until after this year anyway (I want to reregister D but also want to avoid any instances of my registration being challenged prior to November) you can still work (I am an "accessibility clerk" this year. I put up the outside signs and sit by the ADA entrance to make sure people can get in.) You make much more money but I don't know about the tax and income situation.
Either way, here is what will happen: you will go to a short class that is interesting the first time, but super boring every year afterwards. They give you a manual on how everything works and who to call if it doesn't work. You show up to your poll site and rush around getting everything ready; nothing happens for hours and you chat with a random group of senior citizens, underpaid adults like yourself, and senior high school kids who had the bright idea of signing up for this to get out of a day of school but also get paid. And sometimes random voters who hang out and chat. (Once a lady showed us videos of her pet teacup pig!!!)
You get a lot of reading done in between voters. There's a rush after work hours. Someone gets super fuckin' mad about the list of voters posted outside the polling place, which we're required to do by state law and have been for years, so you'd think it would not be a surprise? But whatever, it's a break from the long stretches of nothing. The last two hours are divided into rushing around getting everything broken down and swept up, and standing around waiting for the sheriff to come get the ballots. It's the easiest job you'll ever do and it's oddly rewarding. Plus you get to give stickers to all kids, which is always rewarding.
posted by blnkfrnk at 7:24 AM on August 13, 2016 [36 favorites]
I have booked speakers and been a speaker (though not even little league).
If it grieves you to think of people being given lots of money to stand on stage for a bit, think of it like rock and roll, but for business. At one end, there are lots of wannabes who'll do it for nothing, but nobody wants them because they've got nothing to say and/or nobody knows them. At the other, there are stars who can fill any venue and charge what they like, and supply is much smaller than demand.
Nobody points to, say, point to Dylan being able to stand on stage for a bit, phone in a performance, and walk away with six more digits than he came with, and claim corruption in society.
Same thing (and in the case of someone like Eno, he can in fact do either interchangeably). Afterwards, people can feel good about bragging to their friends that they saw QOTSA/Clinton, a chunk of change has changed hands - and in Clinton's case, it's not going on blow, hookers or yachts
Someone I know is a management consultant who specialises in the dynamics of inter-company deals, specifically the psychology of top management in those situations. Which sounds kooky, but they fix problemsthat have enormous consequences, and they're very well paid. And being smart and empathic they're impeccably left-wing, community minded and activist.
What to do with the money? They put it into houses they rent out. They once asked me if I thought it was right that they should be doing such an incredibly capitalist thing - to which I said, I wish everyone who did that was like you, because look at how most landlords behave.
It's no crime to be rich and liberal, nor to operate effectively in our capitalist society. In fact, it's a mitzvah that such people are there, because they give the lie to the myth that success depends on selfishness and greed. And the rules of engagement are what they are.
Clinton gets the tumbs-up from me for taking money from the bastards.
posted by Devonian at 7:35 AM on August 13, 2016 [106 favorites]
If it grieves you to think of people being given lots of money to stand on stage for a bit, think of it like rock and roll, but for business. At one end, there are lots of wannabes who'll do it for nothing, but nobody wants them because they've got nothing to say and/or nobody knows them. At the other, there are stars who can fill any venue and charge what they like, and supply is much smaller than demand.
Nobody points to, say, point to Dylan being able to stand on stage for a bit, phone in a performance, and walk away with six more digits than he came with, and claim corruption in society.
Same thing (and in the case of someone like Eno, he can in fact do either interchangeably). Afterwards, people can feel good about bragging to their friends that they saw QOTSA/Clinton, a chunk of change has changed hands - and in Clinton's case, it's not going on blow, hookers or yachts
Someone I know is a management consultant who specialises in the dynamics of inter-company deals, specifically the psychology of top management in those situations. Which sounds kooky, but they fix problemsthat have enormous consequences, and they're very well paid. And being smart and empathic they're impeccably left-wing, community minded and activist.
What to do with the money? They put it into houses they rent out. They once asked me if I thought it was right that they should be doing such an incredibly capitalist thing - to which I said, I wish everyone who did that was like you, because look at how most landlords behave.
It's no crime to be rich and liberal, nor to operate effectively in our capitalist society. In fact, it's a mitzvah that such people are there, because they give the lie to the myth that success depends on selfishness and greed. And the rules of engagement are what they are.
Clinton gets the tumbs-up from me for taking money from the bastards.
posted by Devonian at 7:35 AM on August 13, 2016 [106 favorites]
A fine collection of political cartoons for your Saturday morning.
posted by palindromic at 7:35 AM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by palindromic at 7:35 AM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
I have to say, after spending 1.5 years lurking on this site, I finally realized that it was high time to make a Metafilter account when, in the span of 12 hours, I recommended these election threads to two separate people and described them as "the only things keeping me sane in this election season... but also a massive abyss that's sucking up all my productivity."
Yes but do you believe your friends think you sane or insane after such disclosure
posted by polymodus at 4:55 AM on August 13 [+] [!]
They're both political wonks, so I imagine the same obsessive tendency will be there wrt this season. They'll understand. I want to believeee
posted by the wine-dark sea at 7:38 AM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
Yes but do you believe your friends think you sane or insane after such disclosure
posted by polymodus at 4:55 AM on August 13 [+] [!]
They're both political wonks, so I imagine the same obsessive tendency will be there wrt this season. They'll understand. I want to believeee
posted by the wine-dark sea at 7:38 AM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
The big money paid speeches don't bother me from a corruption point of view, I'm just always made uncomfortable by the idea of someone being able to make more money giving a single speech than most of the country makes in a year, and I'm then made especially uncomfortable when asked to view that person as a champion of the downtrodden. It annoys me about every GOP politician too, I just have better reasons to dislike them so this doesn't come up.
I just don't like the very rich is all, just in general. I don't like that is possible to be so rich while some people are so poor. I don't like the expectation that my public servants will always be orders of magnitude more wealthy than myself.
I also dislike that very famous musicians and athletes draw the salaries they do (and this fact harms both music and sports, and this also goes for public speakers.), this just isn't the place to be complaining about that.
I'm still voting Clinton, and probably going to try and do some volunteering at the polls, but the Clintons are (nearly) Romney-level wealthy, and I fundamentally have a beef with anyone who is that wealthy. But if one of the worst things I think about them is that they are very rich, then I think that's fine.
posted by neonrev at 7:52 AM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
I just don't like the very rich is all, just in general. I don't like that is possible to be so rich while some people are so poor. I don't like the expectation that my public servants will always be orders of magnitude more wealthy than myself.
I also dislike that very famous musicians and athletes draw the salaries they do (and this fact harms both music and sports, and this also goes for public speakers.), this just isn't the place to be complaining about that.
I'm still voting Clinton, and probably going to try and do some volunteering at the polls, but the Clintons are (nearly) Romney-level wealthy, and I fundamentally have a beef with anyone who is that wealthy. But if one of the worst things I think about them is that they are very rich, then I think that's fine.
posted by neonrev at 7:52 AM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
My dad always says this about baseball players' salaries: "What, they're supposed to say 'no, I don't want millions of dollars'? 'I definitely want to make less than everyone else'? 'Pay me less than that other guy'? Come on."
I feel more or less the same about this. What, she's not supposed to take money for speaking? A rational person takes the money they can get. How low does she need to go?
posted by blnkfrnk at 7:59 AM on August 13, 2016 [41 favorites]
I feel more or less the same about this. What, she's not supposed to take money for speaking? A rational person takes the money they can get. How low does she need to go?
posted by blnkfrnk at 7:59 AM on August 13, 2016 [41 favorites]
Again, the other angle on the Goldman speaking fees business: as a speaker and freelancer my own self, there are two big considerations I use when I'm deciding how much to charge. One is how much the place has to pay me. I'm going to charge an entity more it if has deeper pockets, and a little indie film festival isn't going to have the same cash as a conference that charges four digits per person in admission.
The other consideration, though, is how much I believe in a group and its ambitions. For something that I really, really want to do, in the interests of a cause I believe in, I'll charge less or even do it for nothing. (Budget and schedule permitting, you still can't pay your mortgage with love.) But the places I think are going to be a pain in the ass, or the ones that I'm not that enthusiastic about out of the gate? Yeah, I charge more to do that stuff.
By both of those metrics, Clinton charging Goldman a ton of money makes perfect sense to me because they have the money and it's not a cause she's interested in supporting. So if they want her to show up at all, they have to make it worth her while. I'm baffled at how people read corruption into that.
posted by Andrhia at 8:00 AM on August 13, 2016 [91 favorites]
The other consideration, though, is how much I believe in a group and its ambitions. For something that I really, really want to do, in the interests of a cause I believe in, I'll charge less or even do it for nothing. (Budget and schedule permitting, you still can't pay your mortgage with love.) But the places I think are going to be a pain in the ass, or the ones that I'm not that enthusiastic about out of the gate? Yeah, I charge more to do that stuff.
By both of those metrics, Clinton charging Goldman a ton of money makes perfect sense to me because they have the money and it's not a cause she's interested in supporting. So if they want her to show up at all, they have to make it worth her while. I'm baffled at how people read corruption into that.
posted by Andrhia at 8:00 AM on August 13, 2016 [91 favorites]
A rational person takes the money they can get.
I'll mention that to my brother-in-law about his vow of poverty...
posted by dis_integration at 8:01 AM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
I'll mention that to my brother-in-law about his vow of poverty...
posted by dis_integration at 8:01 AM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
It occurs to me that Trump is finally making his long-awaited pivot, but instead of getting serious about winning, he's getting serious about losing. His priority now is avoiding the ego loss of a straight-up defeat, and he's willing to throw the presumption of electoral legitimacy (a line so bright Nixon wouldn't cross it in 1960) overboard to save himself.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 8:03 AM on August 13, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 8:03 AM on August 13, 2016 [19 favorites]
So I listen to The Strategists, which is a fascinating podcast by three Canadian political strategists; Corey Hogan who has mostly worked on left wing campaigns, Stephen Carter who is more Progressive Conservative (which puts him in line with centrist Democrats) and Zain Velji, who hosts and I suspect is somewhere between the two. It's great because they talk about the behind-the-scenes stuff, and focus on politics from a strategic point of view; not really focusing too much on the issues (except in that some are better and some are worse for strategy). There isn't too much happening up here, so they've mostly been talking US politics lately. In episode 587, their most recent (recorded before Trump's 2nd Amendment comments) they say one thing that is positive and one that is terrifying.
The positive one refers to what they like to call the ballot box question, the question that people are asking themselves when they vote. They talk about the importance of framing this quite regularly. The classic example is Reagan's "Are you better off today than you were four years ago?" If that's what people were asking when they voted in 1980, then Carter had no chance of winning.
One of them summarizes this election's ballot box question (based on someone else's tweet; I can't find a proper reference right now). Clinton and Trump are both highly unpopular candidates, based on polling data. If the election is about Clinton, Trump can win. If the election is about Trump, then Clinton will win. Both Trump and Clinton want this election to be about Trump. I think that's reassured me a lot; I don't think any of those facts will change in the next few months.
However, starting about the 41 minute mark, they start talking about the role of facts vs. what people believe and howe the Trump campaign is undermining the system. Hogan asks "How do you think a democracy dies?" and it continues from there; it's a sobering listen. These are smart, real-world, hard-nosed back room types, and they're seriously worried about the health of American democracy.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 8:06 AM on August 13, 2016 [42 favorites]
The positive one refers to what they like to call the ballot box question, the question that people are asking themselves when they vote. They talk about the importance of framing this quite regularly. The classic example is Reagan's "Are you better off today than you were four years ago?" If that's what people were asking when they voted in 1980, then Carter had no chance of winning.
One of them summarizes this election's ballot box question (based on someone else's tweet; I can't find a proper reference right now). Clinton and Trump are both highly unpopular candidates, based on polling data. If the election is about Clinton, Trump can win. If the election is about Trump, then Clinton will win. Both Trump and Clinton want this election to be about Trump. I think that's reassured me a lot; I don't think any of those facts will change in the next few months.
However, starting about the 41 minute mark, they start talking about the role of facts vs. what people believe and howe the Trump campaign is undermining the system. Hogan asks "How do you think a democracy dies?" and it continues from there; it's a sobering listen. These are smart, real-world, hard-nosed back room types, and they're seriously worried about the health of American democracy.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 8:06 AM on August 13, 2016 [42 favorites]
I'll mention that to my brother-in-law about his vow of poverty...
Snark aside, the mindset of a person who decides to be a Force For Good by legal and political means is necessarily different from that of a person who decides to do it in a more metaphysical sense.
I don't necessarily agree with all the things you have to do, say, accept and put up with in order to walk the national political stage, but I do recognize them as necessities, at least the way the system is currently set up. They are necessities regardless of class, gender, race, religion or sexual preference.
That is is mostly women and minorities getting called on it is instructive.
posted by Mooski at 8:07 AM on August 13, 2016 [54 favorites]
Snark aside, the mindset of a person who decides to be a Force For Good by legal and political means is necessarily different from that of a person who decides to do it in a more metaphysical sense.
I don't necessarily agree with all the things you have to do, say, accept and put up with in order to walk the national political stage, but I do recognize them as necessities, at least the way the system is currently set up. They are necessities regardless of class, gender, race, religion or sexual preference.
That is is mostly women and minorities getting called on it is instructive.
posted by Mooski at 8:07 AM on August 13, 2016 [54 favorites]
Ronald Reagan was paid $2 million in 1988 (about $4 million in today's dollars) for two speeches.
posted by OmieWise at 8:08 AM on August 13, 2016 [28 favorites]
posted by OmieWise at 8:08 AM on August 13, 2016 [28 favorites]
I'm just always made uncomfortable by the idea of someone being able to make more money giving a single speech than most of the country makes in a year, and I'm then made especially uncomfortable when asked to view that person as a champion of the downtrodden. It annoys me about every GOP politician too, I just have better reasons to dislike them so this doesn't come up.
I just don't like the very rich is all, just in general. I don't like that is possible to be so rich while some people are so poor. I don't like the expectation that my public servants will always be orders of magnitude more wealthy than myself.
Oh my god, so much this. Except it's not so much dislike (I'm sure many rich people are assholes, that's certainly been my limited experience of social interaction with them), but I'm just honestly confused by why everyone seems to accept it as okay that some people have so much $NUMBER IN BANK ACCOUNT that they could never even... use it? while other people can't even get enough of these little greenish pieces of paper with numbers on it (or its digital equivalent) to be able to have a place to sleep in or food to eat. It just makes no sense to my brain.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:10 AM on August 13, 2016 [22 favorites]
I just don't like the very rich is all, just in general. I don't like that is possible to be so rich while some people are so poor. I don't like the expectation that my public servants will always be orders of magnitude more wealthy than myself.
Oh my god, so much this. Except it's not so much dislike (I'm sure many rich people are assholes, that's certainly been my limited experience of social interaction with them), but I'm just honestly confused by why everyone seems to accept it as okay that some people have so much $NUMBER IN BANK ACCOUNT that they could never even... use it? while other people can't even get enough of these little greenish pieces of paper with numbers on it (or its digital equivalent) to be able to have a place to sleep in or food to eat. It just makes no sense to my brain.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:10 AM on August 13, 2016 [22 favorites]
As of about 45 minutes ago, Clinton's rating in the 538 polls-only forecast has reached an all-time high. Her climb back from the low point between the two conventions has been just stupendous. She's now rated as an 87.8% favorite to win the election.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:10 AM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:10 AM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
So thanks for all the mindless internet looping, guys.
posted by the wine-dark sea
You're welcome!
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:10 AM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by the wine-dark sea
You're welcome!
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:10 AM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
And so ends the great populist uprising of our time, fizzling out pathetically in the mud and the bigotry stirred up by a third-rate would-be caudillo named Donald J Trump. So closes an era of populist outrage that began back in 2008 ...Thomas Frank, With Trump certain to lose, you can forget about a progressive Clinton, Guardian (13 August 2016).
...
As leading Republicans desert the sinking ship of Trump’s GOP, America’s two-party system itself has temporarily become a one-party system. And within that one party, the political process bears a striking resemblance to dynastic succession....
...
For decades, the Davos set have told us that doubt about “globalization” was a species of racism, and soon Trump, as a landslide loser, will confirm this for them in overwhelming terms.
My friends and I like to wonder about who will be the “next Bernie Sanders”, but what I am suggesting here is that whoever emerges to lead the populist left will simply be depicted as the next Trump. The billionaire’s scowling country-club face will become the image of populist reform, whether genuine populists had anything to do with him or not. This is the real potential disaster of 2016: That legitimate economic discontent is going to be dismissed as bigotry and xenophobia for years to come.
posted by Sonny Jim at 8:16 AM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
A long term perspective:
I'm old enough to remember when Governor Clinton became President-Elect Clinton, and the media was publishing stories about how the Arkansas hillbillies were coming to Washington, and there was a lot of sniffiness about how the Clintons were not the proper sort. Included in that sniffiness were comments about the Clintons not being as wealthy as the Washingtonian upper crust - and that somehow they were going to be unable to really understand or fix the early-1990's recession because they just were not economically sophisticated.
There followed eight years of the GOP throwing lawsuit after lawsuit against the Clintons - beginning with Whitewater and continuing on through the impeachment process. Admittedly the Clintons were not perfect; in particular this should not be construed as a defense of Bill's deeply problematic behavior. But the GOP efforts weren't just an attempt to politically tarnish the Clintons. It's where the "conservative watchdog" Judicial Watch was founded (1994) and cut its teeth, for example. It was an organized attempt to both bankrupt the Clintons personally through legal fees and overturn the results of the election not by political means but via external lawsuits. And then Fox News was founded (1996) to fill the airwaves with smoke so as many people as possible would believe there was a fire.
Part of what the Clintons have been doing since then is building up wealth as a buffer against these tactics, which have never shown any signs of abating. In the years since, yet more of the norms that used to protect the gentility of both parties (those of the "right sort") has been abandoned against the perceived outsider - which included the Clintons being called white trash before the guns were turned on Obama's race and now Hillary's gender.
I do not begrudge them the wealth, and I am bemused by the fact that the Clintons are now considered the ultimate insiders, when they began as anything but.
posted by Chanther at 8:19 AM on August 13, 2016 [201 favorites]
I'm old enough to remember when Governor Clinton became President-Elect Clinton, and the media was publishing stories about how the Arkansas hillbillies were coming to Washington, and there was a lot of sniffiness about how the Clintons were not the proper sort. Included in that sniffiness were comments about the Clintons not being as wealthy as the Washingtonian upper crust - and that somehow they were going to be unable to really understand or fix the early-1990's recession because they just were not economically sophisticated.
There followed eight years of the GOP throwing lawsuit after lawsuit against the Clintons - beginning with Whitewater and continuing on through the impeachment process. Admittedly the Clintons were not perfect; in particular this should not be construed as a defense of Bill's deeply problematic behavior. But the GOP efforts weren't just an attempt to politically tarnish the Clintons. It's where the "conservative watchdog" Judicial Watch was founded (1994) and cut its teeth, for example. It was an organized attempt to both bankrupt the Clintons personally through legal fees and overturn the results of the election not by political means but via external lawsuits. And then Fox News was founded (1996) to fill the airwaves with smoke so as many people as possible would believe there was a fire.
Part of what the Clintons have been doing since then is building up wealth as a buffer against these tactics, which have never shown any signs of abating. In the years since, yet more of the norms that used to protect the gentility of both parties (those of the "right sort") has been abandoned against the perceived outsider - which included the Clintons being called white trash before the guns were turned on Obama's race and now Hillary's gender.
I do not begrudge them the wealth, and I am bemused by the fact that the Clintons are now considered the ultimate insiders, when they began as anything but.
posted by Chanther at 8:19 AM on August 13, 2016 [201 favorites]
Well. That Frank article's maybe a little hyperbolic, no?
posted by rp at 8:19 AM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by rp at 8:19 AM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
One thing I think Bernie Sanders did, for which I will be eternally grateful, is he proved that Americans are no longer afraid of the word 'Socialism'. I don't think that can be easily undone.
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:22 AM on August 13, 2016 [41 favorites]
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:22 AM on August 13, 2016 [41 favorites]
Thomas Frank hyperbolic?
Wait are you being sarcastic?
He has become unreadable for me in the last year or two. He's a bourgeois leftist Friedman (and Friedman actually just earned a little respect on my end a few days ago, more than I can say for Frank).
posted by spitbull at 8:23 AM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Wait are you being sarcastic?
He has become unreadable for me in the last year or two. He's a bourgeois leftist Friedman (and Friedman actually just earned a little respect on my end a few days ago, more than I can say for Frank).
posted by spitbull at 8:23 AM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
He also proved that American subjects by and large don't have a fucking clue what that word means...
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:24 AM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:24 AM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
That Thomas Frank peice is garbage. It continues the slander that Hillary Clinton is some kind of secret Republican reactionary and not the progressive leader she has proven to be time and again.
posted by humanfont at 8:26 AM on August 13, 2016 [21 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 8:26 AM on August 13, 2016 [21 favorites]
Thomas Frank hyperbolic?
Wait are you being sarcastic?
I was going for understatement, but I guess if the shoe fits
posted by rp at 8:32 AM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
Wait are you being sarcastic?
I was going for understatement, but I guess if the shoe fits
posted by rp at 8:32 AM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
He also proved that American subjects by and large don't have a fucking clue what that word means...
A family member who was calling Obama a communist in 2008 was genuinely trying to understand the Scandinavian model... and I saw that happening more than a few times in my own bubble.
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:32 AM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
A family member who was calling Obama a communist in 2008 was genuinely trying to understand the Scandinavian model... and I saw that happening more than a few times in my own bubble.
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:32 AM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
I do not begrudge them the wealth, and I am bemused by the fact that the Clintons are now considered the ultimate insiders, when they began as anything but.
My mom campaigned for Bill Clinton when he was running for governor of Arkansas. I've been distantly watching his career since then, and Hillary's once she had an active political life separate from his - and yes. A great deal of modern politics is founded on the premise that absolutely any detail in a politician's life that isn't shared by 80% of the country (except for white maleness) is fair game for an attack.
If she had a middle-class income, the press would be screaming that she can't possibly understand enough about finance to be dealing with the national budget.
The key to understanding the difference between real questions about skills, experience, or suitability for a particular job: What would the "correct" answer be? How much income would be the right amount to not raise these questions; what kind of negotiation skills should she have; how should she have answered the question to assure people that she would do they job they want?
If there is no "correct" answer, the question is just drama-mongering.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:32 AM on August 13, 2016 [69 favorites]
My mom campaigned for Bill Clinton when he was running for governor of Arkansas. I've been distantly watching his career since then, and Hillary's once she had an active political life separate from his - and yes. A great deal of modern politics is founded on the premise that absolutely any detail in a politician's life that isn't shared by 80% of the country (except for white maleness) is fair game for an attack.
If she had a middle-class income, the press would be screaming that she can't possibly understand enough about finance to be dealing with the national budget.
The key to understanding the difference between real questions about skills, experience, or suitability for a particular job: What would the "correct" answer be? How much income would be the right amount to not raise these questions; what kind of negotiation skills should she have; how should she have answered the question to assure people that she would do they job they want?
If there is no "correct" answer, the question is just drama-mongering.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:32 AM on August 13, 2016 [69 favorites]
I AM FINALLY CAUGHT UP
if you don't count skipping the end of the last thread
EVERYBODY SLOW DOWN
posted by schadenfrau at 8:35 AM on August 13, 2016 [38 favorites]
EVERYBODY SLOW DOWN
posted by schadenfrau at 8:35 AM on August 13, 2016 [38 favorites]
Long, long ago, I was the director of a campus Women's Center. We wanted to bring Judith Butler to speak. She had a professorship at another university and she charged what, at the time, I'm sure seemed like a fortune. But if you want someone to talk to any group here in the U.S., they get paid. It is totally bullshit that we think we are allowed to then tell women, especially, what they are and are not to do with their earnings.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:45 AM on August 13, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 8:45 AM on August 13, 2016 [27 favorites]
Getting to the end of these election threads is like getting to the end of Inifinite Jest, where Don Gately wakes up on the beach and the tide is going out. Except there's 87 days left.
posted by Oxydude at 8:47 AM on August 13, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by Oxydude at 8:47 AM on August 13, 2016 [17 favorites]
Oxydude, certain kinds of parallel lines are supposed to start converging in such a way that an “end” can be projected by the voter somewhere beyond the right frame. If no such convergence or projection occurred to you, then the election’s failed for you.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 8:54 AM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 8:54 AM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
When I was taking a mid-level microeconomics class, the professor had a great saying about this kind of thing: price is how we decide who to say 'no' to. Part of the reason a famous figure charges a lot is because hey, they can, and these things are more involved than most people think.
Part of it is simply to weed out some requests for their time, whether the people involved are thinking about it or not. If a major political figure or athlete or author *didn't* command a pretty good fee, they'd be sifting through an even bigger list of requests. A speaking fee is shorthand for 'you must be this serious to even ask.' (And yeah, it sounds crazy to some people here, but a lot of people and organizations genuinely want to hear from famous figures that they look up to. I'm not surprised by what Hillary Clinton charges, nor even Ronald Reagan - and I have long wished to piss on his grave. It's not shocking, it's just a question of how many people are interested and what they're willing to do over it.)
posted by mordax at 8:55 AM on August 13, 2016 [32 favorites]
Part of it is simply to weed out some requests for their time, whether the people involved are thinking about it or not. If a major political figure or athlete or author *didn't* command a pretty good fee, they'd be sifting through an even bigger list of requests. A speaking fee is shorthand for 'you must be this serious to even ask.' (And yeah, it sounds crazy to some people here, but a lot of people and organizations genuinely want to hear from famous figures that they look up to. I'm not surprised by what Hillary Clinton charges, nor even Ronald Reagan - and I have long wished to piss on his grave. It's not shocking, it's just a question of how many people are interested and what they're willing to do over it.)
posted by mordax at 8:55 AM on August 13, 2016 [32 favorites]
for reals, i feel like if it came out that Hillary Clinton assaulted a voter at one of her events, Trump would be on tv that afternoon proclaiming that she invented fluoridation and chemtrails
Not to mention radioactivity and cancer...
Trumped up charges is a phrase that will never be the same. In a just world, that is.
posted by y2karl at 8:56 AM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
Not to mention radioactivity and cancer...
Trumped up charges is a phrase that will never be the same. In a just world, that is.
posted by y2karl at 8:56 AM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
On a second look, I see that I made a mistake and overlooked two more Schedule C forms on the Clinton 2015 tax return. The total earnings of $10 million was correct but it breaks down as follows:
Hillary and Bill collected $28K and $29K in royalties for their older books. Hillary earned $1.5 million in speaking fees and Bill earned $5.2 million. Bill earned $1.7 million for consulting. Hillary received another $3 million which is apparently a payment for her latest book "Hard Choices."
We regret the error.
posted by JackFlash at 8:57 AM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
Hillary and Bill collected $28K and $29K in royalties for their older books. Hillary earned $1.5 million in speaking fees and Bill earned $5.2 million. Bill earned $1.7 million for consulting. Hillary received another $3 million which is apparently a payment for her latest book "Hard Choices."
We regret the error.
posted by JackFlash at 8:57 AM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
Don Gately wakes up on the beach and the tide is going out
SPOILERS
posted by thelonius at 8:57 AM on August 13, 2016 [18 favorites]
SPOILERS
posted by thelonius at 8:57 AM on August 13, 2016 [18 favorites]
Cornel West gets 20-30k per talk. On top of his nice salary and media appearance fees and royalties.
It's a rough life being a socialist radical.
ETA I heard about West's fee from someone who worked an event where he spoke. I trust this person.
posted by spitbull at 9:07 AM on August 13, 2016 [39 favorites]
It's a rough life being a socialist radical.
ETA I heard about West's fee from someone who worked an event where he spoke. I trust this person.
posted by spitbull at 9:07 AM on August 13, 2016 [39 favorites]
[Frank] has become unreadable for me in the last year or two.I've been reading Frank for a long time and I really don't think he's changed his position politically or declined in the quality of his political analysis at all. I just think that the American liberal-progressive axis has broken decisively to the right over the past year and away from Frank's brand of New Deal Dem revivalism.
posted by Sonny Jim at 9:16 AM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well, I was never a fan of his political analysis. I find it clueless on the subject of race.
posted by spitbull at 9:17 AM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by spitbull at 9:17 AM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
I was telling my husband about Trump reading "The Snake" lyrics during both of his speeches yesterday and I thought perhaps this was an attempt by one his handlers to make his speeches more interesting (along with the Charts) but I couldn't see the point. He should be talking policy or telling stories or pumping up the crowd-- those are the usual stump speech building blocks. My husband replied, "Because for those 5 minutes of reading lyrics, he can't say anything stupid that has to be walked back."
I've been binge-listening to Trumpcast and while I like all the episodes, if you only have time for one the latest podcast about the Evangelical Vote is very eye-opening. My biggest take away so far however is that there is too much garbage to talk about with Trump so nothing is really sticking (aside from the Gold Star Family fiasco.) It's easy with Clinton, you just repeat emails and Benghazi til you are blue in the face, but where do you even begin with Trump? I think we should all be pushing the Russian connection. There is so much evidence out there that he is falling in line with what Putin wants AND Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets,” Trump’s son, Donald Jr., told a real estate conference in 2008. How can we elect someone to the Presidency who owes so much money (100's of millions) to Russia? That is going to be my main talking point from now on.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:20 AM on August 13, 2016 [20 favorites]
I've been binge-listening to Trumpcast and while I like all the episodes, if you only have time for one the latest podcast about the Evangelical Vote is very eye-opening. My biggest take away so far however is that there is too much garbage to talk about with Trump so nothing is really sticking (aside from the Gold Star Family fiasco.) It's easy with Clinton, you just repeat emails and Benghazi til you are blue in the face, but where do you even begin with Trump? I think we should all be pushing the Russian connection. There is so much evidence out there that he is falling in line with what Putin wants AND Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets,” Trump’s son, Donald Jr., told a real estate conference in 2008. How can we elect someone to the Presidency who owes so much money (100's of millions) to Russia? That is going to be my main talking point from now on.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:20 AM on August 13, 2016 [20 favorites]
I've found that people are extremely upset by Hillary's speech fees, and when you ask why then they claim the fees are indicative of corruption/ quid pro quo/general shadiness, and when you ask them about policy decisions that would address their high minded concerns, they don't care---they just want to talk about how bad Hillary is.
posted by Monochrome at 9:21 AM on August 13, 2016 [36 favorites]
posted by Monochrome at 9:21 AM on August 13, 2016 [36 favorites]
However, starting about the 41 minute mark, they start talking about the role of facts vs. what people believe and how the Trump campaign is undermining the system. Hogan asks "How do you think a democracy dies?" and it continues from there; it's a sobering listen.
One of the things that most bothers me about elections is the apparent elevation of feelings over facts. In that frame, Stephen Colbert's most prescient moment was his discussion of truthiness in the first episode of The Colbert Report.
But I wonder: has there ever been a time in America when feelings weren't elevated over facts? Is this just something to be expected in any democracy? Is this trend actually getting worse with the rise of partisan news and internet echo chambers, or were people just quieter about it in the past?
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 9:24 AM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
One of the things that most bothers me about elections is the apparent elevation of feelings over facts. In that frame, Stephen Colbert's most prescient moment was his discussion of truthiness in the first episode of The Colbert Report.
But I wonder: has there ever been a time in America when feelings weren't elevated over facts? Is this just something to be expected in any democracy? Is this trend actually getting worse with the rise of partisan news and internet echo chambers, or were people just quieter about it in the past?
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 9:24 AM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
from the "this is good news for donald trump!" dept.:
Gannett and N.Y. Times ask court to unseal 1990 Trump divorce records
honestly this seems like needless muckraking considering how poorly the trump campaign is going…
posted by murphy slaw at 9:25 AM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
Gannett and N.Y. Times ask court to unseal 1990 Trump divorce records
honestly this seems like needless muckraking considering how poorly the trump campaign is going…
posted by murphy slaw at 9:25 AM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
Same with the Clinton foundation, as evidence for corruption. Do people really think it's a shell company for bribes to her, personally, with no regulation or transparency involved?
The comparison between the Clinton foundation and Halliburton is just mind boggling.
posted by Dashy at 9:26 AM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
The comparison between the Clinton foundation and Halliburton is just mind boggling.
posted by Dashy at 9:26 AM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
A family member who was calling Obama a communist in 2008 was genuinely trying to understand the Scandinavian model...
Did they come to understand that the Scandinavian model is capitalist?
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 9:27 AM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
Did they come to understand that the Scandinavian model is capitalist?
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 9:27 AM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
Cornel West gets 20-30k per talk
This is how about how much he was paid when he gave a talk to one (of my too many) graduate institutions. Tickets were $45 so I skipped it. I have a lot of ambivalence about West but his early books and essays are great contributions to American Pragmatism.
posted by dis_integration at 9:29 AM on August 13, 2016
This is how about how much he was paid when he gave a talk to one (of my too many) graduate institutions. Tickets were $45 so I skipped it. I have a lot of ambivalence about West but his early books and essays are great contributions to American Pragmatism.
posted by dis_integration at 9:29 AM on August 13, 2016
Did they come to understand that the Scandinavian model is capitalist?
Yes, they did, and they were telling their conservative friends.
posted by maggiemaggie at 9:29 AM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
Yes, they did, and they were telling their conservative friends.
posted by maggiemaggie at 9:29 AM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
honestly this seems like needless muckraking considering how poorly the trump campaign is going…
Trump kicked this proverbial hornet's nest his own damn self. He's called the media "dishonest," "corrupt," and "lowest form of life." His supporters yell "Traitors!" at reporters covering his rallies.
I, too, have my own issues with the media, but if this is what it takes for them to grow a spine, more power to 'em.
posted by zakur at 9:32 AM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
Trump kicked this proverbial hornet's nest his own damn self. He's called the media "dishonest," "corrupt," and "lowest form of life." His supporters yell "Traitors!" at reporters covering his rallies.
I, too, have my own issues with the media, but if this is what it takes for them to grow a spine, more power to 'em.
posted by zakur at 9:32 AM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
Anyway, Bernie Sanders was popularly known as a Socialist (whether he actually was or wasn't) and yet he was more successful in his campaign than anyone could have predicted.
So I think Frank is wrong that the populist left is done. This is an enormous sea-change that will last, even after Clinton becomes president.
posted by maggiemaggie at 9:37 AM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
So I think Frank is wrong that the populist left is done. This is an enormous sea-change that will last, even after Clinton becomes president.
posted by maggiemaggie at 9:37 AM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
I have been so incredibly angry and anxious about the election this week. Honestly, I'm not all that bothered by Trump's misogyny, casual racism, and incitement to violence; all that stuff sucks, but it's been part of elections since time immemorial, and at least it's vaguely logical in the sense that it might actually help Trump win the election. The part that makes me FURIOUS is that the entire Republican party and a large chunk of the country are getting taken in by a con artist, a guy who clearly isn't what he says he is and has no ability to deliver what he says he will. TRUMP ISN'T RICH. The evidence is piling up that despite having significant financial assets, his liabilities are huge, and his net worth is small or even negative. His entire campaign is part of a desperate con to get another reality show or Fox News slot so he can restore his own family's finances. It's so freaking OBVIOUS and yet everyone is completely ignoring it. The entire reason anyone would vote for him in the primary, or even give the guy the time of day, is an illusion. It's deeply disturbing to me that he's managed to trick a large fraction of the country into believing things that are manifestly untrue, and that we're all (collectively) falling for it. I hope he doesn't just lose, I hope his and his family's reputations get destroyed.
posted by miyabo at 9:39 AM on August 13, 2016 [64 favorites]
posted by miyabo at 9:39 AM on August 13, 2016 [64 favorites]
It's deeply disturbing to me that he's managed to trick a large fraction of the country into believing things that are manifestly untrue.
Racism is a helluva drug.
posted by chris24 at 9:42 AM on August 13, 2016 [24 favorites]
Racism is a helluva drug.
posted by chris24 at 9:42 AM on August 13, 2016 [24 favorites]
If speaking fees were my major source of income, I would certainly charge as high a fee as I could command (even while making exceptions for pro bono speeches) and that would mean few organizations could afford me.
The basic point about speaker fees is that they're market-clearing: for prominent people with a finite amount of time on their hands, they're "how much are you really willing to pay me when I'd much sooner be doing something else?" But if you set your fee that high, you're sort of obliged to show up for at least some of those who'll pay, in the way that pop stars sometimes end up playing some rich kid's birthday party. Yes, it's a sign of gross inequality, but at least some of that money's finding its way to charity via the people getting paid, instead of being spent on mountains of blow and swimming pools filled with champagne.
In other news, Hollywood A-listers will take big money for mediocre studio films so that they work on indie projects they personally like with much smaller budgets.
FWIW, I hope Biden rakes in some money after he leaves office -- brand ambassador for Corvette! -- because for a senator from effin' Delaware he's basically got the net worth of a senior public servant.
posted by holgate at 9:45 AM on August 13, 2016 [25 favorites]
The basic point about speaker fees is that they're market-clearing: for prominent people with a finite amount of time on their hands, they're "how much are you really willing to pay me when I'd much sooner be doing something else?" But if you set your fee that high, you're sort of obliged to show up for at least some of those who'll pay, in the way that pop stars sometimes end up playing some rich kid's birthday party. Yes, it's a sign of gross inequality, but at least some of that money's finding its way to charity via the people getting paid, instead of being spent on mountains of blow and swimming pools filled with champagne.
In other news, Hollywood A-listers will take big money for mediocre studio films so that they work on indie projects they personally like with much smaller budgets.
FWIW, I hope Biden rakes in some money after he leaves office -- brand ambassador for Corvette! -- because for a senator from effin' Delaware he's basically got the net worth of a senior public servant.
posted by holgate at 9:45 AM on August 13, 2016 [25 favorites]
I mentioned this in a previous thread, but Hillary Clinton has been called a liar, a murderer, and a thief on the nightly news with great regularity since about 1991. if you're under 40, then you've been hearing this one specific woman's credibility questioned by powerful people since you were a child. If you supported Obama in 2008, you probably felt comfortable with "just not trusting Hillary," even if you didn't necessarily believe any one specific charge against her was correct. Better safe than sorry.
Deservedly or not, Clinton has been the target of an incredible campaign of insinuation, and it's hard to put aside the sense that there are a lot of people out there who would swear on a stack of Bibles that Hillary would eat a live baby if she thought it would help her put people in reeducation camps. How could all those people say all those things for so long if there wasn't a ring of truth in there somewhere? When you hear something unseemly about Hillary, it doesn't just raise a warning flag, it feels like confirmation of 25 years of claims made against her.
Which isn't to say that Clinton is immaculate. But I posit that the most sinister things Clinton has done are already public knowledge.
posted by GameDesignerBen at 9:48 AM on August 13, 2016 [67 favorites]
Deservedly or not, Clinton has been the target of an incredible campaign of insinuation, and it's hard to put aside the sense that there are a lot of people out there who would swear on a stack of Bibles that Hillary would eat a live baby if she thought it would help her put people in reeducation camps. How could all those people say all those things for so long if there wasn't a ring of truth in there somewhere? When you hear something unseemly about Hillary, it doesn't just raise a warning flag, it feels like confirmation of 25 years of claims made against her.
Which isn't to say that Clinton is immaculate. But I posit that the most sinister things Clinton has done are already public knowledge.
posted by GameDesignerBen at 9:48 AM on August 13, 2016 [67 favorites]
I too was feeling angry today that such an obviously incompetent buffoon is one of the major parties' candidate for President. I'm also wondering if the Republican party really has been destroyed. I've heard this before and it doesn't seem to take. They will still have all those seats in Congress and the Senate.
The only logical conclusion I can draw is that Donald Trump is the reductio ad absurdum of the Southern Strategy. It should prove to Republicans that the Southern Strategy is more of a hindrance at this point, but I don't know if it will. It would be nice to hear some Republican type say that clearly.
Racism is a helluva drug.
posted by maggiemaggie at 9:51 AM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
The only logical conclusion I can draw is that Donald Trump is the reductio ad absurdum of the Southern Strategy. It should prove to Republicans that the Southern Strategy is more of a hindrance at this point, but I don't know if it will. It would be nice to hear some Republican type say that clearly.
Racism is a helluva drug.
posted by maggiemaggie at 9:51 AM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
I don't think Trump can recover from this slump, not without some big, unforeseen event happening, something that nobody could control and which dramatically changes the tenor of the campaign. I don't think he can handle not being the winner, and that the longer he stays down in the polls the more discouraged he will get, and people will see that. As his enthusiasm fades, so will that of his fan base. I don't think he has it in him to claw his way out of this hole. It's going to be very interesting to see just how weird things get when he starts to slide. We're already seeing signs of it, I'm pretty sure—but the collapse will no doubt bring us to all new levels of bizarre.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:05 AM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:05 AM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
This popped up on my Twitter. Apparently, Trump's spokesperson has been asserting that Obama led US to war in Afghanistan and that somehow contributed to the establishment of ISIS.
I know, I know: this is small fry compared to the bigger whoopers, but I continue to be amazed as to how grown-ups can assert such stream-of-consciousness fiction on live television.
Also, I finally got to the end of a thread. YAY.
posted by the cydonian at 10:07 AM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
I know, I know: this is small fry compared to the bigger whoopers, but I continue to be amazed as to how grown-ups can assert such stream-of-consciousness fiction on live television.
Also, I finally got to the end of a thread. YAY.
posted by the cydonian at 10:07 AM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
I AM FINALLY CAUGHT UP
I platonically love you, schadenfrau. But really, there is no such thing here.
Good morning, junkies.
On preview, hello the cydonian HAHAHAH
posted by wallabear at 10:08 AM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
I platonically love you, schadenfrau. But really, there is no such thing here.
Good morning, junkies.
On preview, hello the cydonian HAHAHAH
posted by wallabear at 10:08 AM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
Alexander Burns and Maggie Haberman: Inside the Failing Mission to Save Donald Trump From Himself
In private, Mr. Trump’s mood is often sullen and erratic, his associates say. He veers from barking at members of his staff to grumbling about how he was better off following his own instincts during the primaries and suggesting he should not have heeded their calls for change.posted by zombieflanders at 10:09 AM on August 13, 2016 [50 favorites]
He broods about his souring relationship with the news media, calling Mr. Manafort several times a day to talk about specific stories. Occasionally, Mr. Trump blows off steam in bursts of boyish exuberance: At the end of a fund-raiser on Long Island last week, he playfully buzzed the crowd twice with his helicopter.
But in interviews with more than 20 Republicans who are close to Mr. Trump or in communication with his campaign, many of whom insisted on anonymity to avoid clashing with him, they described their nominee as exhausted, frustrated and still bewildered by fine points of the political process and why his incendiary approach seems to be sputtering.
It should prove to Republicans that the Southern Strategy is more of a hindrance at this point
Well, overt racism is. Covert racism was kinda working for them. (And the fact that they were dependent on covert racism made it hard to call out Trump's overt racism.) The issue is now that the beast has been fed the pure stuff, will anything but mainlining satisfy the base? If not, they become a white nationalist party. And even if they can revert to dogwhistles and not trumpet blasts, will anyone not white ever forget/forgive this? Probably not and they effectively become a white nationalist party. They could repudiate the Southern Strategy and dogwhistles completely and build a new coalition, but I'm not holding my breath.
posted by chris24 at 10:10 AM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
Well, overt racism is. Covert racism was kinda working for them. (And the fact that they were dependent on covert racism made it hard to call out Trump's overt racism.) The issue is now that the beast has been fed the pure stuff, will anything but mainlining satisfy the base? If not, they become a white nationalist party. And even if they can revert to dogwhistles and not trumpet blasts, will anyone not white ever forget/forgive this? Probably not and they effectively become a white nationalist party. They could repudiate the Southern Strategy and dogwhistles completely and build a new coalition, but I'm not holding my breath.
posted by chris24 at 10:10 AM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
But in interviews with more than 20 Republicans who are close to Mr. Trump or in communication with his campaign, many of whom insisted on anonymity to avoid clashing with him, they described their nominee as exhausted, frustrated and still bewildered by fine points of the political process and why his incendiary approach seems to be sputtering.
You just can't tell the World's Greatest Genius he's wrong ever. Look at his huge crowds, for one. And look at his huge crowds for another. Sad!
posted by y2karl at 10:12 AM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
You just can't tell the World's Greatest Genius he's wrong ever. Look at his huge crowds, for one. And look at his huge crowds for another. Sad!
posted by y2karl at 10:12 AM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's going to be very interesting to see just how weird things get when he starts to slide.
He was this damaging on the way up. Imagine the way down.
posted by chris24 at 10:13 AM on August 13, 2016 [19 favorites]
He was this damaging on the way up. Imagine the way down.
posted by chris24 at 10:13 AM on August 13, 2016 [19 favorites]
Hell of a thing when a President has to make the country safe for democracy by being elected, not afterwards. This is, in a sense, the first test of her administration: can she have one?
posted by Countess Elena at 10:13 AM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 10:13 AM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
NYTimes: Inside the Failing Mission to Save Donald Trump From Himself
On preview I see zombieflanders just posted the same thing but we chose to quote slightly different parts.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:14 AM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
Advisers who once hoped a Pygmalion-like transformation would refashion a crudely effective political showman into a plausible American president now increasingly concede that Mr. Trump may be beyond coaching. He has ignored their pleas and counsel as his poll numbers have dropped, boasting to friends about the size of his crowds and maintaining that he can read surveys better than the professionals.Love that image of him being exhausted and bewildered. "I keep telling them that Hillary goes to sleep at night yet her numbers keep going up and mine keep dropping."[fake]
In private, Mr. Trump’s mood is often sullen and erratic, his associates say. He veers from barking at members of his staff to grumbling about how he was better off following his own instincts during the primaries and suggesting he should not have heeded their calls for change.[...]
they described their nominee as exhausted, frustrated and still bewildered by fine points of the political process and why his incendiary approach seems to be sputtering.
Charles R. Black Jr., an influential Republican lobbyist supporting Mr. Trump, said the campaign was in a continuing struggle to tame him.So this is the best they can hope from their candidate-- that he goes 3 or 4 days without a major gaffe. I don't know whether to be sad for them or gleeful. There is a bit of a tragedy going on here. If Trump was more likeable it would pluck at your heartstrings.
“He has three or four good days and then makes another gaffe,” Mr. Black said. “Hopefully, he can have some more good days.” Of Mr. Trump’s advisers, Mr. Black said, “They think he is making progress in terms of being able to make set speeches and not take the bait on every attack somebody makes on him.”
On preview I see zombieflanders just posted the same thing but we chose to quote slightly different parts.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:14 AM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
Well, at least Trump has made Karl Rove sad and angry. That's a net plus, right?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:17 AM on August 13, 2016 [55 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:17 AM on August 13, 2016 [55 favorites]
If Trump was more likeable it would pluck at your heartstrings.
It did sort of pluck at my heartstrings in that Rucker interview when he said he would want Ivanka to do "whatever makes her happy." It's surely not actually true, but it reminded me that for her he seems to feel something like love.
Not that this matters to any of us, of course, but I'm a writer, and I like to see some shading in what has so far been a bombastic caricature of a villain.
posted by Countess Elena at 10:21 AM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
It did sort of pluck at my heartstrings in that Rucker interview when he said he would want Ivanka to do "whatever makes her happy." It's surely not actually true, but it reminded me that for her he seems to feel something like love.
Not that this matters to any of us, of course, but I'm a writer, and I like to see some shading in what has so far been a bombastic caricature of a villain.
posted by Countess Elena at 10:21 AM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
Efforts to bring in high-profile, experienced hands have been fruitless. Mr. Kushner had suggested enlisting Steve Schmidt, Senator John McCain’s 2008 presidential campaign manager, but despite having met once with Mr. Trump during the primaries and speaking with him a few times, Mr. Schmidt never signed on.
Well, that's one Steve that managed to slip through the Trump campaign's Steve-net.
posted by the wine-dark sea at 10:27 AM on August 13, 2016 [26 favorites]
Well, that's one Steve that managed to slip through the Trump campaign's Steve-net.
posted by the wine-dark sea at 10:27 AM on August 13, 2016 [26 favorites]
RE: Trumpeteers.
A friend of mine was asked by his then very young children why some movies and television shows were in black and white instead of color. He told them that when he was young, there was no color -- that it hadn't been invented yet.
And they bought it until they went to pre-school. Boy, were they pissed.
You would think so-called adult audiences were incapable of such gullibility. And you would be wrong.
posted by y2karl at 10:29 AM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
A friend of mine was asked by his then very young children why some movies and television shows were in black and white instead of color. He told them that when he was young, there was no color -- that it hadn't been invented yet.
And they bought it until they went to pre-school. Boy, were they pissed.
You would think so-called adult audiences were incapable of such gullibility. And you would be wrong.
posted by y2karl at 10:29 AM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
It should prove to Republicans that the Southern Strategy is more of a hindrance at this point
A Republican Intellectual Explains why the Republican Party is Going To Die
A Republican Intellectual Explains why the Republican Party is Going To Die
Roy isn’t happy about this: He believes it means the Democrats will dominate national American politics for some time. But he also believes the Republican Party has lost its right to govern, because it is driven by white nationalism rather than a true commitment to equality for all Americans.posted by Blue Jello Elf at 10:30 AM on August 13, 2016 [25 favorites]
I like to see some shading in what has so far been a bombastic caricature of a villain.
I'll admit to thinking something close to "oh gosh, that poor man" when I first read that Trump had been lying about the size of his tower.
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:31 AM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'll admit to thinking something close to "oh gosh, that poor man" when I first read that Trump had been lying about the size of his tower.
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:31 AM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
I feel like the press should be aggressively hitting all GOP candidates over whether American democracy is rigged. Trump may not feel much personal attachment to the electoral process, but I suspect career politicians from his party may differ. "Is it the official position of the GOP that the American democratic process ought not be trusted?"
posted by GameDesignerBen at 10:31 AM on August 13, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by GameDesignerBen at 10:31 AM on August 13, 2016 [31 favorites]
He was this damaging on the way up. Imagine the way down.
Yeah, chris24. That does concern me a bit. I just hope his incendiary rhetoric doesn't get anyone killed.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:33 AM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, chris24. That does concern me a bit. I just hope his incendiary rhetoric doesn't get anyone killed.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:33 AM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's as if that ranting cab driver or barfly who kept going on about 'if I was President..' has been lifted up by angels and told - Go on then.
All he had to do was last a hundred or so days in the public gaze while he proved he wouldn't frighten the wives and servants, backed by one of the greatest political machines on the planet devoted entirely to his success.
The difference is, where Fred the cabbie or Jimbob the barfly, being from this planet, would quickly realise where they were and then do what they were told, Donnie cannot do this due to being 70 and living only on Planet Trump for the past forty years. He can't even breath the air on Earth without his id-suit.
posted by Devonian at 10:33 AM on August 13, 2016 [16 favorites]
All he had to do was last a hundred or so days in the public gaze while he proved he wouldn't frighten the wives and servants, backed by one of the greatest political machines on the planet devoted entirely to his success.
The difference is, where Fred the cabbie or Jimbob the barfly, being from this planet, would quickly realise where they were and then do what they were told, Donnie cannot do this due to being 70 and living only on Planet Trump for the past forty years. He can't even breath the air on Earth without his id-suit.
posted by Devonian at 10:33 AM on August 13, 2016 [16 favorites]
That RNC consent decree post linked above is fascinating.
Could the DNC seek an enforcement action to prevent Trump from calling for "the RNC, its agents, servants, and employees... 'whether acting directly or indirectly through other party committees'" to "undertak[e] any ballot security activities in polling places or election districts where the racial or ethnic composition of such districts is a factor in the decision to conduct, or the actual conduct of, such activities there and where a purpose or significant effect of such activities is to deter qualified voters from voting; and the conduct of such activities disproportionately in or directed toward districts that have a substantial proportion of racial or ethnic populations shall be considered relevant evidence of the existence of such a factor and purpose"? (Third Cir. opinion at 6)
("'Ballot Security,' as used in the Consent Decree, shall include any program aimed at combating voter fraud by preventing potential voters from registering to vote or casting a ballot. Such programs include, but are not limited to... the use of challengers to confront potential voters and verify their eligibility at the polls... the recording by photographic or other means of voter likenesses or vehicles at any polling place; and the distribution of literature informing individuals at or near a polling place that voter fraud is a crime or detailing the penalties under any state or federal statute for impermissibly casting a ballot.")
posted by cdefgfeadgagfe at 10:34 AM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
Could the DNC seek an enforcement action to prevent Trump from calling for "the RNC, its agents, servants, and employees... 'whether acting directly or indirectly through other party committees'" to "undertak[e] any ballot security activities in polling places or election districts where the racial or ethnic composition of such districts is a factor in the decision to conduct, or the actual conduct of, such activities there and where a purpose or significant effect of such activities is to deter qualified voters from voting; and the conduct of such activities disproportionately in or directed toward districts that have a substantial proportion of racial or ethnic populations shall be considered relevant evidence of the existence of such a factor and purpose"? (Third Cir. opinion at 6)
("'Ballot Security,' as used in the Consent Decree, shall include any program aimed at combating voter fraud by preventing potential voters from registering to vote or casting a ballot. Such programs include, but are not limited to... the use of challengers to confront potential voters and verify their eligibility at the polls... the recording by photographic or other means of voter likenesses or vehicles at any polling place; and the distribution of literature informing individuals at or near a polling place that voter fraud is a crime or detailing the penalties under any state or federal statute for impermissibly casting a ballot.")
posted by cdefgfeadgagfe at 10:34 AM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
I'm afraid of what might happen on election day at polling booths and in the streets after dark. Not about who is going to win -- I'm happy with the inevitable winner -- but afraid that the inevitable losers (including most of the anti-government gun nuts, racists, sexists, and xenophobes in the country) have all been primed to freak out when it happens.
posted by pracowity at 10:39 AM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by pracowity at 10:39 AM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
In private, Mr. Trump’s mood is often sullen and erratic, his associates say. He veers from barking at members of his staff to grumbling about how he was better off following his own instincts during the primaries and suggesting he should not have heeded their calls for change...they described their nominee as exhausted, frustrated and still bewildered by fine points of the political process and why his incendiary approach seems to be sputtering.
The "You know who else..." just writes itself, doesn't it?
posted by Thorzdad at 10:40 AM on August 13, 2016 [16 favorites]
The "You know who else..." just writes itself, doesn't it?
posted by Thorzdad at 10:40 AM on August 13, 2016 [16 favorites]
Republicans question Trump's travel choices, tight purse strings
Concerned Republicans say their worries go beyond the campaign's decision to send its greatest resource -- the candidate himself -- to chase one or two electoral votes in Maine, or to what they believe are unwinnable states like Connecticut. The other phenomenon perplexing veteran operatives is that the Trump campaign now has the needed money to finance television ads and ground operations -- they just don't appear to be spending it.[...]These are all questions that we have been asking here since the RNC. What's taken the Republicans and the media so long to catch up?
[Trump] declared it too early for him to be spending money [on television ads], and compared himself to an "old race horse" saying he is hanging back to see what happens.
"I think we have some pretty good ads but we don't want to go too fast. Just nice and easy," said Trump.
But many Republicans wonder what Trump is waiting for, since Clinton has used time and money to define herself, and more importantly, Trump, without much of a retort.
I feel like the press should be aggressively hitting all GOP candidates over whether American democracy is rigged.
That is such a good point. Paul Ryan should be asked that exact question today and every day until he answers (because I know he will do his best not to answer it.)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:40 AM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
So okay wait
Trump is angry because
insulting a baby
insulting the parents of a fallen hero
suggesting that 2nd amendment people upend HRC judicial nominations with their 2nd amendment rights
is not going over well?
I mean I just don't understand the psychology. Aside from the fact that he still sounds like an addict who wants to continue to getting his fix. I mean it's addict psychology. There's not reason involved, just him wanting to do what he wants.
posted by angrycat at 10:43 AM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
Trump is angry because
insulting a baby
insulting the parents of a fallen hero
suggesting that 2nd amendment people upend HRC judicial nominations with their 2nd amendment rights
is not going over well?
I mean I just don't understand the psychology. Aside from the fact that he still sounds like an addict who wants to continue to getting his fix. I mean it's addict psychology. There's not reason involved, just him wanting to do what he wants.
posted by angrycat at 10:43 AM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
I think the big reason this round's election threads have been non-stop has been Trump's desire to always be dominating the news cycle. That's something we've never seen before in a political campaign -- he's exploiting the 24 hour news media's need to have something to always be talking about. Before, candidates were about making appearances and doing judicious news events but the rest of the time trying to stay out of the news cycle churn, lest they do something that COULD hurt them.
posted by dw at 10:44 AM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by dw at 10:44 AM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
@JamesGleick: "The Trump poll “observers” who see people voting multiple times will also be the ones who think all black people look alike."
posted by bibliowench at 10:44 AM on August 13, 2016 [72 favorites]
posted by bibliowench at 10:44 AM on August 13, 2016 [72 favorites]
From Blue Jello Elf's link:
posted by octothorpe at 10:48 AM on August 13, 2016 [38 favorites]
“Conservative intellectuals, and conservative politicians, have been in kind of a bubble,” Roy says. “We’ve had this view that the voters were with us on conservatism — philosophical, economic conservatism. In reality, the gravitational center of the Republican Party is white nationalism.”Really? I find it hard to believe that this is a big shocker to anyone. The party of Willy Horten is shocked to find out that there's racism going on?
posted by octothorpe at 10:48 AM on August 13, 2016 [38 favorites]
Just a reminder that polls are based on statistics. Stats say nothing about an outlier or exactly what the next roll will be. Trump chances are 50-50 (two candidates) and there is no historical data for moonbatinsane celebrity businessman on a major ticket, not even Romney data counts in this case.
posted by sammyo at 10:49 AM on August 13, 2016
posted by sammyo at 10:49 AM on August 13, 2016
Donald Trump’s Only Rule During Comedy Central Roast: Don’t Say I’m Not That Rich
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 10:50 AM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 10:50 AM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Trump chances are 50-50 (two candidates)
nope
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:51 AM on August 13, 2016 [66 favorites]
nope
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:51 AM on August 13, 2016 [66 favorites]
I think the big reason this round's election threads have been non-stop has been Trump's desire to always be dominating the news cycle. That's something we've never seen before in a political campaign -- he's exploiting the 24 hour news media's need to have something to always be talking about. Before, candidates were about making appearances and doing judicious news events but the rest of the time trying to stay out of the news cycle churn, lest they do something that COULD hurt them.
Yes! And he's running it as though he were producing an entertainment rather than a persuasive narrative. He's totally misread his (the general election) audience.
If he had the capacity for introspection and empathy, and had a little more impulse control, I'd be really worried.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:51 AM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yes! And he's running it as though he were producing an entertainment rather than a persuasive narrative. He's totally misread his (the general election) audience.
If he had the capacity for introspection and empathy, and had a little more impulse control, I'd be really worried.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:51 AM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
More evidence of a campaign in trouble. A fund raising invitation for August 30 had to be reissued because some of the names on the original invitation want nothing to do with the event. Willamette Week:
Meanwhile, Trump's finance team has sent out a new invite to his Aug. 30 fundraiser in Seattle. This time, the list of hosts is missing some high-profile Portlanders.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:51 AM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
Last weekend, The Seattle Times uncovered an invitation that listed three Portland businessmen among the event hosts. In the next 48 hours, all three men disavowed the event—and two of them, hoteliers Gordon Sondland and Bashar Wali, pledged to never support Trump.
The new invitation, obtained today by WW, does not list Sondland, Wali or Portland State University trustee Peter Stott.
I think the big reason this round's election threads have been non-stop has been Trump's desire to always be dominating the news cycle.
Meanwhile, Hillary's pulling the ol' Please Proceed, Governor.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 10:51 AM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
Meanwhile, Hillary's pulling the ol' Please Proceed, Governor.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 10:51 AM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
Stats say nothing about an outlier or exactly what the next roll will be. Trump chances are 50-50 (two candidates)
No, the statistics tell us the probability of what the next roll will be. Saying Trump's chances are 50-50 at this point because there are two candidates is misleading at best. If we determined the next president by fair coin flip, then yes, 50-50. But instead we have these things called votes that are used to determine the electoral college, and polls turn out to be generally accurate in predicting those. It's not Trump being polled, it's voters, and the voters haven't changed substantively.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 10:53 AM on August 13, 2016 [16 favorites]
No, the statistics tell us the probability of what the next roll will be. Saying Trump's chances are 50-50 at this point because there are two candidates is misleading at best. If we determined the next president by fair coin flip, then yes, 50-50. But instead we have these things called votes that are used to determine the electoral college, and polls turn out to be generally accurate in predicting those. It's not Trump being polled, it's voters, and the voters haven't changed substantively.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 10:53 AM on August 13, 2016 [16 favorites]
- I feel like the press should be aggressively hitting all GOP candidates over whether American democracy is rigged. -
That is such a good point. Paul Ryan should be asked that exact question today and every day until he answers
+1000.
posted by chris24 at 10:54 AM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
That is such a good point. Paul Ryan should be asked that exact question today and every day until he answers
+1000.
posted by chris24 at 10:54 AM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
And for another reason why Paul Ryan, et al needs to be asked daily:
Pat Buchanan says if Trump loses, it means American democracy is 'fraudulent' and 'rotten'.
posted by chris24 at 10:56 AM on August 13, 2016
Pat Buchanan says if Trump loses, it means American democracy is 'fraudulent' and 'rotten'.
posted by chris24 at 10:56 AM on August 13, 2016
Many of you loved the upcoming Time Magazine cover. The New Yorker is going to have a similar theme this coming week.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:56 AM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:56 AM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
please proceed, governor
Whereas Trump has basically converted the Gish Gallop into a campaign strategy.
You can so tell he comes (as do his minions) from the world of commissioned sales.
posted by spitbull at 10:56 AM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
Whereas Trump has basically converted the Gish Gallop into a campaign strategy.
You can so tell he comes (as do his minions) from the world of commissioned sales.
posted by spitbull at 10:56 AM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
Each candidate is really four separate candidates occurring simultaneously, like the four sides of a cube.
posted by Artw at 10:57 AM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:57 AM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
Each candidate is really four separate candidates occurring simultaneously, like the four sides of a cube.
A... time cube???
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 10:58 AM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
A... time cube???
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 10:58 AM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
If you buy a Powerball ticket, there are only two possibilities: either you win the jackpot, or you don’t. That’s 50-50 odds too, right? [fake]
posted by nicepersonality at 10:59 AM on August 13, 2016 [36 favorites]
posted by nicepersonality at 10:59 AM on August 13, 2016 [36 favorites]
Just a reminder that polls are based on statistics. Stats say nothing about an outlier or exactly what the next roll will be. Trump chances are 50-50 (two candidates) and there is no historical data for moonbatinsane celebrity businessman on a major ticket, not even Romney data counts in this case.
No. Polls are not based on statistics, the polls are statistics. The models treat the polls as data and the combination of the model and the data (and to include 538 which uses a bayesian framework, priors) to make inferences. These inferences are where we get things like "our models say there is a 75% chance that clinton will win". What you are saying is that those models do not fit the data well, and that your bernoulli model--that is not based on data and uses something equivalent to a diffuse, noninformative prior--is better. Bullocks.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:00 AM on August 13, 2016 [17 favorites]
No. Polls are not based on statistics, the polls are statistics. The models treat the polls as data and the combination of the model and the data (and to include 538 which uses a bayesian framework, priors) to make inferences. These inferences are where we get things like "our models say there is a 75% chance that clinton will win". What you are saying is that those models do not fit the data well, and that your bernoulli model--that is not based on data and uses something equivalent to a diffuse, noninformative prior--is better. Bullocks.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:00 AM on August 13, 2016 [17 favorites]
Just a reminder that polls are based on statistics. [...]Trump chances are 50-50 (two candidates).
Wait, you believe in math enough to believe that the probability of one candidate getting randomly selected out of two is 50%, but not enough to believe that if you randomly select 1,000 people out of state with 10 million, the average value of whatever you're trying to measure will in most cases be about the same for the smaller group and the larger group?
It's the same kind of math.
Anyway, the 50-50 thing would only be right if we were putting Trump's name and Clinton's name into a hat and randomly selecting one. But we're not. For starters, Jill Stein and Gary Johnson will be on most people's ballots too. So do you think that means the probability of Trump winning is only 25%, because Johnson and Stein each also have a 25% chance?
Of course not. Because when you ask people who they will vote for, hardly any of them say Stein or Johnson. A greater number say Trump, but not enough to give him a 50-50 shot, thank goodness.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:00 AM on August 13, 2016 [15 favorites]
Wait, you believe in math enough to believe that the probability of one candidate getting randomly selected out of two is 50%, but not enough to believe that if you randomly select 1,000 people out of state with 10 million, the average value of whatever you're trying to measure will in most cases be about the same for the smaller group and the larger group?
It's the same kind of math.
Anyway, the 50-50 thing would only be right if we were putting Trump's name and Clinton's name into a hat and randomly selecting one. But we're not. For starters, Jill Stein and Gary Johnson will be on most people's ballots too. So do you think that means the probability of Trump winning is only 25%, because Johnson and Stein each also have a 25% chance?
Of course not. Because when you ask people who they will vote for, hardly any of them say Stein or Johnson. A greater number say Trump, but not enough to give him a 50-50 shot, thank goodness.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:00 AM on August 13, 2016 [15 favorites]
Rubes' cube.
posted by spitbull at 11:00 AM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 11:00 AM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
"Speaker Ryan, the Republican Party has majorities in the House and Senate, 31 governorships, 68 state legislative houses, and a majority of innumerable state and local offices. Do you agree with Donald Trump's assertion that American democracy is rigged against the will of the people?"
posted by infinitewindow at 11:01 AM on August 13, 2016 [137 favorites]
posted by infinitewindow at 11:01 AM on August 13, 2016 [137 favorites]
The whole idea that some guy is going to risk going to Federal Prison for 5 years just so his favored candidate will get an extra vote or two in an election that counts votes in the tens of millions is jaw-droppingly stupid.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:01 AM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:01 AM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
Time cube physics does at least explain what the fuck is up with Trump's hair.
posted by Artw at 11:02 AM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:02 AM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
Really? I find it hard to believe that this is a big shocker to anyone. The party of Willy Horten is shocked to find out that there's racism going on?
If you were 18 in 1988, you're 46 this year. There's an entire generation of Republicans behind them. You forget that sometimes.
Example: I was talking to a ~30 year old engineer for a commercial aviation manufacturer. We got talking about the differences in the design work I do (UX for enterprise applications) and the design work he does (commercial jets). I mentioned that what I do is unlikely to kill anyone, where the quality required for his work probably will. I then explained how the 1989 Sioux City crash happened due to poor design and a lack of quality control on forging one of the ingots used to make the turbofan some 20 years earlier.
Engineer's response? "Huh. I'd never heard of this crash. And we get drilled on plane crashes and causes all the time."
History isn't always remembered. Thus why we're often doomed to repeat it.
posted by dw at 11:02 AM on August 13, 2016 [24 favorites]
If you were 18 in 1988, you're 46 this year. There's an entire generation of Republicans behind them. You forget that sometimes.
Example: I was talking to a ~30 year old engineer for a commercial aviation manufacturer. We got talking about the differences in the design work I do (UX for enterprise applications) and the design work he does (commercial jets). I mentioned that what I do is unlikely to kill anyone, where the quality required for his work probably will. I then explained how the 1989 Sioux City crash happened due to poor design and a lack of quality control on forging one of the ingots used to make the turbofan some 20 years earlier.
Engineer's response? "Huh. I'd never heard of this crash. And we get drilled on plane crashes and causes all the time."
History isn't always remembered. Thus why we're often doomed to repeat it.
posted by dw at 11:02 AM on August 13, 2016 [24 favorites]
How the War on Terror Fuels Trump, Jacobin
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:03 AM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:03 AM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
This week in Florida, I saw a campaign ad for a congressional seat. It was a negative ad of the scary, black-and-white photos and ominous music genre. The words that appeared on the screen describing the candidate's opponent were "PRO-GUN", "PRO-NRA", and "DANGEROUSLY CONSERVATIVE." This aired in Florida. During Wheel of Fortune. The fact that a politician is betting on this being a winning ad campaign... it's an immense change. This really could be a wave election.
posted by Daily Alice at 11:05 AM on August 13, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by Daily Alice at 11:05 AM on August 13, 2016 [31 favorites]
"Speaker Ryan, the Republican Party has majorities in the House and Senate, 31 governorships, 68 state legislative houses, and a majority of innumerable state and local offices. Do you agree with Donald Trump's assertion that American democracy is rigged against the will of the people?"
Oh come on that's like 5th grade class president level questioning "I don't agree but we have that many elected offices throughout the country, the candidate has incredible support, packed rallies, queues out the door, yet the candidate is apparently behind by double digit points in solidly Republican areas? I can certainly see how someone could think the system is rigged against the candidate."
posted by Talez at 11:11 AM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
Oh come on that's like 5th grade class president level questioning "I don't agree but we have that many elected offices throughout the country, the candidate has incredible support, packed rallies, queues out the door, yet the candidate is apparently behind by double digit points in solidly Republican areas? I can certainly see how someone could think the system is rigged against the candidate."
posted by Talez at 11:11 AM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
History isn't always remembered. Thus why we're often doomed to repeat it.
It's especially exciting in decades when we have a lot of new voters. If they absorb a lot of campaign propaganda without checking historical facts, then all bets are off and stunning political realignments based on grotesque spin are possible.
posted by puddledork at 11:11 AM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's especially exciting in decades when we have a lot of new voters. If they absorb a lot of campaign propaganda without checking historical facts, then all bets are off and stunning political realignments based on grotesque spin are possible.
posted by puddledork at 11:11 AM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Remember that when you suggest this thread, it can be like suggesting someone run a marathon. They haven't been prepped by weekly (and then daily) threads for months.
I wish the best of luck to readers. Good luck finishing before election 2020!
posted by halifix at 11:11 AM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
I wish the best of luck to readers. Good luck finishing before election 2020!
posted by halifix at 11:11 AM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
"I think we have some pretty good ads but we don't want to go too fast. Just nice and easy," said Trump.it's like the world's greatest capitalist doesn't realize that the price and availability of national ad time is detemined by a…market
posted by murphy slaw at 11:14 AM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
Well this is just weird. Donald Trump met with [Marc] Fisher and [Michael] Kranish, offering 20 hours plus of access over a four-month period, while the [Washington] Post was supposed to be banned by the Trump campaign, So that they could write a book about him. “Trump Revealed” will be published by Scribner on Aug. 23.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:14 AM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
The Post said Trump was willing to discuss everything from his childhood and real estate career to his political evolution. He even shared details of his “romances, family history, friendships and other influences,” it reported.And not always as public citizens. At least once a "banned" reporter was removed from a Trump event by security even though he had a public admission ticket.
Fisher and Kranish called the interviews “fascinating but frequently frustrating.” They claim Trump often gave “disjointed answers” to uncomfortable questions.
BuzzFeed, The Huffington Post and Politico join the Washington Post on the Trump campaign’s blacklist, according to CNN. Banned reporters can attend Trump events as public citizens, but cannot attend private events such as press conferences.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:14 AM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
Y'all! Slow down. I just want to address a serious issue upthread: A cube... with four sides.
A cube.
With four sides.
Reality really has become whatever we want it to be. Fuck your three-dimensionality!
posted by rp at 11:19 AM on August 13, 2016 [30 favorites]
A cube.
With four sides.
Reality really has become whatever we want it to be. Fuck your three-dimensionality!
posted by rp at 11:19 AM on August 13, 2016 [30 favorites]
We are in NYC at the moment and while stuck in traffic in front of Trump Tower, I caught like 5 Voltorbs in PokemonGo. So I guess that place is just a nest of aggressive, smooth-headed, volatile types that could explode at a moment's notice.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:21 AM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:21 AM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
In private, Mr. Trump’s mood is often sullen and erratic
YOU DON'T SAY.
they described their nominee as exhausted, frustrated and still bewildered
"Don't you think he looks tired?"
I bet he's frustrated: he's behaving the same way that won him the primary ("I beat 17 people!"), but it's stopped working, he doesn't know why, and he's not capable of behaving any differently.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:22 AM on August 13, 2016 [21 favorites]
YOU DON'T SAY.
they described their nominee as exhausted, frustrated and still bewildered
"Don't you think he looks tired?"
I bet he's frustrated: he's behaving the same way that won him the primary ("I beat 17 people!"), but it's stopped working, he doesn't know why, and he's not capable of behaving any differently.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:22 AM on August 13, 2016 [21 favorites]
Trump rep saying people didn't vote for Romney because of all the Black Panthers and their voter intimidation. Blank stares from CNN panel.
currently this tweet is the only source i've found, looking for confirmation
posted by murphy slaw at 11:23 AM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
currently this tweet is the only source i've found, looking for confirmation
posted by murphy slaw at 11:23 AM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
It's kind of weird how the red state/blue state thing seems to have ossified in the 90s and now we're stuck with it.
A lot of that, I think, is plain old gerrymandering.
re: election 'rigging'...
The Republicans' big gerrymander could backfire in a major way - "Whereas bipartisan gerrymandering creates safe districts for both parties, the GOP undertook partisan gerrymandering, which packs the other party's voters into as few districts as possible and spreads out the gerrymandering party's voters across many districts, each of which that party can win but often by uncomfortably narrow margins..."
not a cover, but i thought the (graphic design) inversion was clever!
posted by kliuless at 11:26 AM on August 13, 2016 [26 favorites]
A lot of that, I think, is plain old gerrymandering.
re: election 'rigging'...
The Republicans' big gerrymander could backfire in a major way - "Whereas bipartisan gerrymandering creates safe districts for both parties, the GOP undertook partisan gerrymandering, which packs the other party's voters into as few districts as possible and spreads out the gerrymandering party's voters across many districts, each of which that party can win but often by uncomfortably narrow margins..."
If the Trump collapse and Clinton surge continue, they could reveal the perils of partisan redistricting. That strategy created so many marginal Republican districts that if the GOP loses the bulk of the seats at or below R+2, it would also lose its congressional majority. A catastrophe that claimed every GOP seat at or below R+4 would bring the GOP caucus close to the size of today’s House Democrats.Many of you loved the upcoming Time Magazine cover. The New Yorker is going to have a similar theme this coming week.
More than that, many seats the Republicans lost would belong to newcomers, who include the most vocal Tea Party conservatives. Once again, this is an indirect result of gerrymandering, which typically ensures safer seats for the most senior party members...
Of course, Democrats shouldn’t be over-confident, even amidst a decisive Trump defeat. The influence of a presidential contest weakens as one travels down the ballot, and incumbents typically insulate themselves well enough to earn reelection rates north of 95 percent.
Moreover, cautious voters sometimes counterbalance one party’s Presidential victory by returning a congressional majority for the opposite party. Democrats may also have fielded too many subpar candidates in the marginal districts they didn’t imagine could be won.
For these reasons, a Democratic House majority is still a long shot.
not a cover, but i thought the (graphic design) inversion was clever!
posted by kliuless at 11:26 AM on August 13, 2016 [26 favorites]
I got another email from Trump today. Seems to be recruiting for poll watching, though the link to volunteer doesn't mention that specifically. The email says in part:
Over the past seven years, our country has lost – BIG LEAGUE. Our jobs are being sent to Mexico. China is killing us in trade. Worst of all, illegal immigrants are getting treated better than our own veterans!
This November our country stands at a crossroads – do we continue down the destructive path laid out by the corrupt and inept policies of Obama, or do we fight to take our country back and start WINNING again?
Our message is working. We’re rising in the polls!
But the polls don’t matter unless we get our supporters out to vote.
That’s where you come in, Pocketfullofrye.
As a volunteer, you’ll be on the frontlines of this critical election. You’ll be my eyes and ears on the ground.
I guess they decided they needed to put the Big League/Bigly controversy to rest.
It's "eyes and ears on the ground" that made me think of the voter intimidation stuff. Amazing that they claim they're "rising in the polls." And interesting that they're still running against Obama, not HRC. Though I think calling Obama "corrupt" is new, right? Like they've decided "oh, everyone accepts HRC is corrupt without any evidence to back it up, maybe that'll work for Obama too."
Anyway it's instructive to see who they think their audience's enemies are, and it's not America's "elites." It's:
Mexican People
Chinese People
Illegal immigrants
Obama
posted by pocketfullofrye at 11:34 AM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
Over the past seven years, our country has lost – BIG LEAGUE. Our jobs are being sent to Mexico. China is killing us in trade. Worst of all, illegal immigrants are getting treated better than our own veterans!
This November our country stands at a crossroads – do we continue down the destructive path laid out by the corrupt and inept policies of Obama, or do we fight to take our country back and start WINNING again?
Our message is working. We’re rising in the polls!
But the polls don’t matter unless we get our supporters out to vote.
That’s where you come in, Pocketfullofrye.
As a volunteer, you’ll be on the frontlines of this critical election. You’ll be my eyes and ears on the ground.
I guess they decided they needed to put the Big League/Bigly controversy to rest.
It's "eyes and ears on the ground" that made me think of the voter intimidation stuff. Amazing that they claim they're "rising in the polls." And interesting that they're still running against Obama, not HRC. Though I think calling Obama "corrupt" is new, right? Like they've decided "oh, everyone accepts HRC is corrupt without any evidence to back it up, maybe that'll work for Obama too."
Anyway it's instructive to see who they think their audience's enemies are, and it's not America's "elites." It's:
Mexican People
Chinese People
Illegal immigrants
Obama
posted by pocketfullofrye at 11:34 AM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
The Republicans' big gerrymander could backfire in a major way - "Whereas bipartisan gerrymandering creates safe districts for both parties, the GOP undertook partisan gerrymandering, which packs the other party's voters into as few districts as possible and spreads out the gerrymandering party's voters across many districts, each of which that party can win but often by uncomfortably narrow margins..."
Pennsyl-fucking-vania. 2012 election.
Popular Vote
Democratic - 50.28%
Republican - 48.77%
Congressional Seats
Democratic: 5
Republican: 13
Keep in mind when Pennsylvania lost a seat in 2010 they redistricted the fucking state so well that Democrats went from six seats to five. Anyone who can look at that and say democracy is functioning properly in the state of Pennsylvania is either an incompetent fuck or a fucking liar.
posted by Talez at 11:35 AM on August 13, 2016 [71 favorites]
Pennsyl-fucking-vania. 2012 election.
Popular Vote
Democratic - 50.28%
Republican - 48.77%
Congressional Seats
Democratic: 5
Republican: 13
Keep in mind when Pennsylvania lost a seat in 2010 they redistricted the fucking state so well that Democrats went from six seats to five. Anyone who can look at that and say democracy is functioning properly in the state of Pennsylvania is either an incompetent fuck or a fucking liar.
posted by Talez at 11:35 AM on August 13, 2016 [71 favorites]
Pennsylvania is probably the worst but it's not the only.
Virginia was all but 50-50 and the 2012 congressional delegation was 8-3. North Carolina was 50.60-48.75 in favor of Democrats but was 9-4 in favor of Republicans in the 2012 delegation. Michigan in 2012 was 50.89-45.62 in favor of Democrats but was 9-5 in favor of Republicans in the delegation.
Democracy has been fundamentally broken in these states delivering a near permanent Republican house (short of a Democratic landslide).
posted by Talez at 11:44 AM on August 13, 2016 [26 favorites]
Virginia was all but 50-50 and the 2012 congressional delegation was 8-3. North Carolina was 50.60-48.75 in favor of Democrats but was 9-4 in favor of Republicans in the 2012 delegation. Michigan in 2012 was 50.89-45.62 in favor of Democrats but was 9-5 in favor of Republicans in the delegation.
Democracy has been fundamentally broken in these states delivering a near permanent Republican house (short of a Democratic landslide).
posted by Talez at 11:44 AM on August 13, 2016 [26 favorites]
currently this tweet is the only source i've found, looking for confirmation
That would be from Scottie Nell Hughes, who is better appreciated through the medium of Cecily Strong. Clearly she is Saturday's designated cablenews jawdropper.
posted by holgate at 11:46 AM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
That would be from Scottie Nell Hughes, who is better appreciated through the medium of Cecily Strong. Clearly she is Saturday's designated cablenews jawdropper.
posted by holgate at 11:46 AM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
If anything can tip the House, it's that Trump may not see the value in Get Out The Vote campaigns. More than Clinton Republicans (how's that for a neologism?), who would be more likely to split their tickets, especially to protect an incumbent, if Trump doesn't care about getting every last vote to the polls (or worries that he might bus in Clinton Republicans by mistake), that could flip an R+2 district where the Dems are funding a GOTV effort.
posted by GameDesignerBen at 11:46 AM on August 13, 2016
posted by GameDesignerBen at 11:46 AM on August 13, 2016
"I think we have some pretty good ads but we don't want to go too fast. Just nice and easy," said Trump.
This sounds better if you imagine Billy D. Williams saying it.
posted by dirigibleman at 11:47 AM on August 13, 2016 [15 favorites]
This sounds better if you imagine Billy D. Williams saying it.
posted by dirigibleman at 11:47 AM on August 13, 2016 [15 favorites]
What would the "correct" answer be? [...] If there is no "correct" answer, the question is just drama-mongering.
I somewhat disagree. As part of my regulator role, I often ask the heads of engineering departments questions about their designs and plans. I am not an engineer, but I can definitely tell the difference between optimistic, shallow hoping-for-the-best and real analysis of pros and likely cons. I don't know what the 'correct' answer is, and maybe there is no one true right answer. But I definitely can recognize the weak spot in some under-examined bullshit and throw a hand grenade into it.
I agree with you though that relentlessly attacking any drawback to sabotage the plan without regard to the whole picture is... not the desired effect and not the same thing.
posted by ctmf at 11:51 AM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
I somewhat disagree. As part of my regulator role, I often ask the heads of engineering departments questions about their designs and plans. I am not an engineer, but I can definitely tell the difference between optimistic, shallow hoping-for-the-best and real analysis of pros and likely cons. I don't know what the 'correct' answer is, and maybe there is no one true right answer. But I definitely can recognize the weak spot in some under-examined bullshit and throw a hand grenade into it.
I agree with you though that relentlessly attacking any drawback to sabotage the plan without regard to the whole picture is... not the desired effect and not the same thing.
posted by ctmf at 11:51 AM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Democracy has been fundamentally broken in these states delivering a near permanent Republican house (short of a Democratic landslide).
It's the triumph of block-level GIS data and mapping software used for partisan fuckery. One of the galling aspects of court decisions that throw out district maps is that GOP state legislators can just go back to their software, tweak the variables a little, and come up with a new map based on updated residency data that is probably just as bad. This means that a census-year gerrymander doesn't unwind as much as it should over the latter part of a decade on account of population changes.
Can't put that genie back in the bottle. The only way to fix this is to take the power of districting out of the hands of those elected into those districts.
posted by holgate at 11:54 AM on August 13, 2016 [24 favorites]
It's the triumph of block-level GIS data and mapping software used for partisan fuckery. One of the galling aspects of court decisions that throw out district maps is that GOP state legislators can just go back to their software, tweak the variables a little, and come up with a new map based on updated residency data that is probably just as bad. This means that a census-year gerrymander doesn't unwind as much as it should over the latter part of a decade on account of population changes.
Can't put that genie back in the bottle. The only way to fix this is to take the power of districting out of the hands of those elected into those districts.
posted by holgate at 11:54 AM on August 13, 2016 [24 favorites]
Wow! Michigan and Wisconsin are Ducking The Donald too???
Considering the people they've put in office in the past 10 ... could they have learned something????
posted by Twang at 11:54 AM on August 13, 2016
Considering the people they've put in office in the past 10 ... could they have learned something????
posted by Twang at 11:54 AM on August 13, 2016
Katrina Pierson goes off the fucking deep end misremembering history yet again.
Afghanistan was Obama's war? Can someone please shut her up?
posted by Talez at 11:56 AM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
Afghanistan was Obama's war? Can someone please shut her up?
posted by Talez at 11:56 AM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
Which isn't to say that Clinton is immaculate. But I posit that the most sinister things Clinton has done are already public knowledge.
Congrats - you've been trained to repeat their taking point: the very word sinister.
posted by Dashy at 11:56 AM on August 13, 2016 [28 favorites]
Chris Ladd ([not]GOPLifer): How Clinton Could Win Texas - "(And Why It Isn’t Good News for Democrats)"
A landslide so large as to turn Texas blue in this election indicates the collapse of the Republican Party’s national relevance. As Trump’s supporters convert the GOP into a white nationalist institution, the Presidency loses its importance. A white nationalist party can only be a regional, not a national force. Absent a fundamental reconstruction of the party, future Republican nominees, just like our nominee this year, will carry all the gravitas and relevance of the Green or Libertarian candidates.posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:01 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
If the left had an organized messaging machine, we could easily turn "the election will be rigged!" into "the only fair elections are elections where everyone can vote!" And use it to both motivate landslide level turn out and stick a shiv in voter suppression efforts.
Call them on trying to rig elections, dammit. Gerrymandering and all. We have actual reality on our side, we just have to shout as loudly and as...unified-ly.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:01 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
Call them on trying to rig elections, dammit. Gerrymandering and all. We have actual reality on our side, we just have to shout as loudly and as...unified-ly.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:01 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
Trump responds to NY Times.
posted by Talez at 12:02 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
The failing @nytimes has become a newspaper of fiction. Their stories about me always quote non-existent unnamed sources. Very dishonest![real] I'm sad to say.
posted by Talez at 12:02 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
Nate Silver:
In USC/LATimes poll, Trump supporters' likelihood of voting has fallen a bunch over past week. His "rigged" message may depress his turnout.posted by murphy slaw at 12:06 PM on August 13, 2016 [17 favorites]
Yeah, the least the NYT could have done would be to name their sources ... John Barron? Steve? Meredith?
posted by Dashy at 12:08 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by Dashy at 12:08 PM on August 13, 2016
Washington Post [real]: How Donald Trump’s bizarre voter-watch effort could get the GOP in trouble
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:10 PM on August 13, 2016 [25 favorites]
In 1981, the Republican Party rolled out a voter-integrity effort in New Jersey that mirrors what Trump demanded in Altoona. As described in a legal ruling about the prohibition:Election Law Blog [real]: Donald Trump May Be Violating RNC Consent Decree Aimed at Voter Intimidation
The RNC allegedly created a voter challenge list by mailing sample ballots to individuals in precincts with a high percentage of racial or ethnic minority registered voters and, then, including individuals whose postcards were returned as undeliverable on a list of voters to challenge at the polls. The RNC also allegedly enlisted the help of off-duty sheriffs and police officers to intimidate voters by standing at polling places in minority precincts during voting with “National Ballot Security Task Force” armbands. Some of the officers allegedly wore firearms in a visible manner.
(Trump in Altoona: "We have to call up law enforcement. And we have to have the sheriffs and the police chiefs and everybody watching. ... The only way they can beat it in my opinion — and I mean this 100 percent — if in certain sections of the state they cheat, okay?")
The Democrats sued, and in 1982, the two parties agreed to a system under which the Republican National Committee agreed to refrain from a number of tactics that could be used to intimidate voters. That consent decree, as it is called, has been modified a number of times, often in response to efforts to challenge the ability of Democratic voters to vote, occasionally targeting black voters specifically.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:10 PM on August 13, 2016 [25 favorites]
The failing @nytimes has become a newspaper of fiction. Their stories about me always quote non-existent unnamed sources.
Did they interview his plant-building buddy?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:12 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
I love that this election is so unbelievable that we're forced to tag things as [real] or [fake] because you'd never know otherwise.
posted by octothorpe at 12:16 PM on August 13, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 12:16 PM on August 13, 2016 [19 favorites]
In USC/LATimes poll, Trump supporters' likelihood of voting has fallen a bunch over past week. His "rigged" message may depress his turnout.
Well, that would be a shame.
posted by Artw at 12:16 PM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
Well, that would be a shame.
posted by Artw at 12:16 PM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
In USC/LATimes poll, Trump supporters' likelihood of voting has fallen a bunch over past week. His "rigged" message may depress his turnout.
It may be that, but there is a identifiable category of voter who only wants to vote for the candidate they see as likely to win. And I have a suspicion that Trumps supporter base contains an unusual number of those voters. This is one of the reasons I am not hugely worried about surprise high voter turnout among his base; I think that if he goes into November looking like a loser, they'll want to keep that stink off them and will either not vote or vote for Clinton.
posted by tavella at 12:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
It may be that, but there is a identifiable category of voter who only wants to vote for the candidate they see as likely to win. And I have a suspicion that Trumps supporter base contains an unusual number of those voters. This is one of the reasons I am not hugely worried about surprise high voter turnout among his base; I think that if he goes into November looking like a loser, they'll want to keep that stink off them and will either not vote or vote for Clinton.
posted by tavella at 12:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
Not winning when your message is winning may also depress turnout.
posted by chris24 at 12:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 12:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [15 favorites]
The Night that Obama and Hillary Founded Isis
They were down in the kitchen one night eating Popsicles and staring into each other’s eyes when he asked if he could tell her a secret. Hillary laughed and said, “Is it about how you’re really a terrorist?” He looked at her and said, “Yes, actually.” She stopped eating her Popsicle. “Donald Trump was right about you?” He nodded. “About everything.”
[fake] [funny]
posted by bunderful at 12:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
They were down in the kitchen one night eating Popsicles and staring into each other’s eyes when he asked if he could tell her a secret. Hillary laughed and said, “Is it about how you’re really a terrorist?” He looked at her and said, “Yes, actually.” She stopped eating her Popsicle. “Donald Trump was right about you?” He nodded. “About everything.”
[fake] [funny]
posted by bunderful at 12:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
I side with has updated for the general.
posted by Talez at 12:23 PM on August 13, 2016
Candidates you side with...Well. At least it's now in writing.
98% Hillary Clinton
4% Donald Trump
posted by Talez at 12:23 PM on August 13, 2016
I love that this election is so unbelievable that we're forced to tag things as [real] or [fake] because you'd never know otherwise.
The Poe's Law election.
posted by chaoticgood at 12:31 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
The Poe's Law election.
posted by chaoticgood at 12:31 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
> "I side with has updated for the general."
98% Clinton
5% Trump
Not super shocked by this.
posted by kyrademon at 12:34 PM on August 13, 2016
98% Clinton
5% Trump
Not super shocked by this.
posted by kyrademon at 12:34 PM on August 13, 2016
GOP insiders: Trump can't win
posted by zakur at 12:35 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
“Trump is underperforming so comprehensively across states and demographics it would take video evidence of a smiling Hillary drowning a litter of puppies while terrorists surrounded her with chants of ‘Death to America!’ But in 2016, stranger things have happened.”Trump has failed to demonstrate he has a plan for anything, and he rejects the GOP when they step in and try to help him.
“Trump has failed to demonstrate he has a plan and path to 270” electoral votes, added a Wisconsin Republican.
posted by zakur at 12:35 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
Bad news, guys. Pack it in. This guy says Trump will win, and he built an app.
posted by Countess Elena at 12:38 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 12:38 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
If you buy a Powerball ticket, there are only two possibilities: either you win the jackpot, or you don’t. That’s 50-50 odds too, right?
I was going to say that either all the molecules in and around the chair I'm sitting in will spontaneously reorganize themselves into Joan Holloway, or they won't. 50-50. I like those odds.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:39 PM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
I was going to say that either all the molecules in and around the chair I'm sitting in will spontaneously reorganize themselves into Joan Holloway, or they won't. 50-50. I like those odds.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:39 PM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
Sam Wang, Princeton Election Consortium: Why follow polls?
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:51 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:51 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Y'all! Slow down. I just want to address a serious issue upthread: A cube... with four sides.
A cube.
With four sides.
Reality really has become whatever we want it to be. Fuck your three-dimensionality!
You are EDUCATED STUPID
posted by Itaxpica at 12:52 PM on August 13, 2016 [23 favorites]
A cube.
With four sides.
Reality really has become whatever we want it to be. Fuck your three-dimensionality!
You are EDUCATED STUPID
posted by Itaxpica at 12:52 PM on August 13, 2016 [23 favorites]
i do sometimes wonder, in highly asymmetric races like this one, does the mere reporting of a significant polling disadvantage for a candidate suppress voter turnout for that candidate?
posted by murphy slaw at 12:56 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by murphy slaw at 12:56 PM on August 13, 2016
My husband just last night realized that part of Trump's flailing, and related flailing throughout the campaign, might be because he was ashamed to realize he's being "beaten by a girl." (Not a quote.)
This also nicely explains why his campaign materials and public statements are all about the Evils Of Obama with a mumbled note that Hillary will extend those policies... he can't wrap his head around competing with a woman; he has to look for the "man in charge" and fight him.
I love living in an area where sexism is so publicly unacceptable that people honestly forget it exists as a motivating factor... except for when we have to deal with the fallout. I had to remind him that the reason we're still fighting for this, even after winning hypothetical equal legal rights, is that a lot of people just took all the old patterns and buried them under a thin layer of justifications like "her voice is shrill" or "she's not very friendly."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:57 PM on August 13, 2016 [45 favorites]
This also nicely explains why his campaign materials and public statements are all about the Evils Of Obama with a mumbled note that Hillary will extend those policies... he can't wrap his head around competing with a woman; he has to look for the "man in charge" and fight him.
I love living in an area where sexism is so publicly unacceptable that people honestly forget it exists as a motivating factor... except for when we have to deal with the fallout. I had to remind him that the reason we're still fighting for this, even after winning hypothetical equal legal rights, is that a lot of people just took all the old patterns and buried them under a thin layer of justifications like "her voice is shrill" or "she's not very friendly."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:57 PM on August 13, 2016 [45 favorites]
“Trump has failed to demonstrate he has a plan and path to 270” electoral votes, added a Wisconsin Republican.
dammit Meredith
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 1:02 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
dammit Meredith
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 1:02 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
[voiceover]:"Meredith": because "You had one job" is just one too many syllables.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:09 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:09 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
He Likes Trump. She Doesn’t. Can This Marriage Be Saved?, NY Times Fashion and Style
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:11 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:11 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
I love that this election is so unbelievable that we're forced to tag things as [real] or [fake] because you'd never know otherwise.
Eh, to be fair we've only reeeeally needed to start doing that in the last two weeks or so
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:12 PM on August 13, 2016
Eh, to be fair we've only reeeeally needed to start doing that in the last two weeks or so
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:12 PM on August 13, 2016
...a Wisconsin Republican...
lol
o.O
I wonder if it was Paul Ryan.
posted by maggiemaggie at 1:12 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
lol
o.O
I wonder if it was Paul Ryan.
posted by maggiemaggie at 1:12 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
with four sides
The other two sides are currently talking over each other on CNN, because you know they both do it.
his "rigged" message may depress his turnout.
Well, that would be a shame.
posted by Artw
Sarcasm!
posted by spitbull at 1:14 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
The other two sides are currently talking over each other on CNN, because you know they both do it.
his "rigged" message may depress his turnout.
Well, that would be a shame.
posted by Artw
Sarcasm!
posted by spitbull at 1:14 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
>He Likes Trump. She Doesn’t. Can This Marriage Be Saved?
Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:14 PM on August 13, 2016 [22 favorites]
Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:14 PM on August 13, 2016 [22 favorites]
Bless their hearts.
posted by Artw at 1:15 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:15 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
So remember how Trump yelled at that protestor in Erie about how his mother would be voting for Trump?
She isn't.
posted by waitingtoderail at 1:17 PM on August 13, 2016 [29 favorites]
She isn't.
posted by waitingtoderail at 1:17 PM on August 13, 2016 [29 favorites]
He Likes Trump. She Doesn’t. Can This Marriage Be Saved?
I thought this was going to be a story about one of Trump's ex-wives.
posted by aubilenon at 1:18 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
I thought this was going to be a story about one of Trump's ex-wives.
posted by aubilenon at 1:18 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
He Likes Trump. She Doesn’t. Can I make it any more obvious?
He used racial slurs. Her best friend is gay. What more can I say?
posted by Talez at 1:23 PM on August 13, 2016 [17 favorites]
He used racial slurs. Her best friend is gay. What more can I say?
posted by Talez at 1:23 PM on August 13, 2016 [17 favorites]
Lol @ the pictures with that article. Men looking smugly placating, women looking like "Ugh, can you not?"
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:37 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:37 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
He Likes Trump. She Doesn’t. Can This Marriage Be Saved?
So I Married anAxe Murderer Asshole
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 1:38 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
So I Married an
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 1:38 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
Apparently an internal poll is showing Clinton and Trump tied in Indiana??!!
posted by peacheater at 1:39 PM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 1:39 PM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
From the Erie piece:
Congrats to all those playing Trump Bingo at home who was waiting to cross off the “Yo’ Momma joke” square.
Uhh...is Trump Bingo a thing beyond right here? Or has the reporter been reading these threads?
posted by adamgreenfield at 1:40 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Congrats to all those playing Trump Bingo at home who was waiting to cross off the “Yo’ Momma joke” square.
Uhh...is Trump Bingo a thing beyond right here? Or has the reporter been reading these threads?
posted by adamgreenfield at 1:40 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Apparently an internal poll is showing Clinton and Trump tied in Indiana??!!
To be fair the Hoosiers are kind of wary about putting Pence near any lever of power ever again.
posted by Talez at 1:40 PM on August 13, 2016 [17 favorites]
To be fair the Hoosiers are kind of wary about putting Pence near any lever of power ever again.
posted by Talez at 1:40 PM on August 13, 2016 [17 favorites]
That NYTimes article is terrifying
We are socialized to put up with anything
posted by schadenfrau at 1:48 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
We are socialized to put up with anything
posted by schadenfrau at 1:48 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
Get your BoBer friends to actually vote for Clinton - this could be huuuuuge and a huge victory for liberal politics, if everyone just went out and voted straight Democratic ticket for once.
posted by peacheater at 1:48 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 1:48 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
Get your BoBer friends to actually vote for Clinton - this could be huuuuuge and a huge victory for liberal politics, if everyone just went out and voted straight Democratic ticket for once.
Does anyone else think OutKast when they see BoB?
Don't pull your thang unless you plan to vote!
Bernie or Busters!
Don't even vote unless you plan to vote Democrat!
Bernie or Busters!
posted by Talez at 1:52 PM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
Does anyone else think OutKast when they see BoB?
Don't pull your thang unless you plan to vote!
Bernie or Busters!
Don't even vote unless you plan to vote Democrat!
Bernie or Busters!
posted by Talez at 1:52 PM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
Indiana elected Birch Bayh 3 times, and Evan Bayh once and probably again. Obama actually won Indiana in 2008, it's probably the next state to fall along with Georgia, after North Carolina. Trump is hitting lows that could flip the map in a lot of places. I'd like to see a poll of Missouri next.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:52 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:52 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Get your BoBer friends to actually vote for Clinton
No can do. I only know a few, but they're desperate for people to try to persuade them, so they can have their chance to explain why they never will. One of my friends started saying the Clintons were "rapists, murderers, crooks" and I bailed.
posted by argybarg at 1:54 PM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
No can do. I only know a few, but they're desperate for people to try to persuade them, so they can have their chance to explain why they never will. One of my friends started saying the Clintons were "rapists, murderers, crooks" and I bailed.
posted by argybarg at 1:54 PM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
Apparently an internal poll is showing Clinton and Trump tied in Indiana??!!
To be fair the Hoosiers are kind of wary about putting Pence near any lever of power ever again.
Not feeling so great today and spending it in bed reading. I found myself reading the Reddit thread that was linked asking what made previous Trump supporters change their minds. There was quite a number who said they were from Indiana and either were leaning towards or supporting Trump until he picked Pence. Many went on to say why and boy does it sound like he was not liked.
That Reddit thread was pretty interesting. Loooong but interesting to read what 'surely this' moment did it for people. The Khan's was a big one but overall it doesn't seem to be one main thing that stuck out. Trump has provided a whole buffet of things for people to choose from.
posted by Jalliah at 1:56 PM on August 13, 2016 [18 favorites]
To be fair the Hoosiers are kind of wary about putting Pence near any lever of power ever again.
Not feeling so great today and spending it in bed reading. I found myself reading the Reddit thread that was linked asking what made previous Trump supporters change their minds. There was quite a number who said they were from Indiana and either were leaning towards or supporting Trump until he picked Pence. Many went on to say why and boy does it sound like he was not liked.
That Reddit thread was pretty interesting. Loooong but interesting to read what 'surely this' moment did it for people. The Khan's was a big one but overall it doesn't seem to be one main thing that stuck out. Trump has provided a whole buffet of things for people to choose from.
posted by Jalliah at 1:56 PM on August 13, 2016 [18 favorites]
Fair enough argybarg, I've given up on the few I'm friends with on Facebook too.
I read somewhere that people are rarely persuaded by direct arguments, that you need to think about your arguments as making you case not to the person you're arguing with but people listening (which is why it's extremely important not to lose your cool or be rude).
I guess GOTV is probably the most important thing then.
posted by peacheater at 1:56 PM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
I read somewhere that people are rarely persuaded by direct arguments, that you need to think about your arguments as making you case not to the person you're arguing with but people listening (which is why it's extremely important not to lose your cool or be rude).
I guess GOTV is probably the most important thing then.
posted by peacheater at 1:56 PM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
In private, Mr. Trump’s mood is often sullen and erratic, his associates say. He veers from barking at members of his staff to grumbling about how he was better off following his own instincts during the primaries and suggesting he should not have heeded their calls for change.
*raised eyebrows*
Ohhhh. He genuinely thinks that he pivoted, and wonders why it didn't take.
That guy is indeed as un-self-aware as Lucille Bluth, and in exactly the same way.
off to see if Arrested Development is on Netflix
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:02 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
*raised eyebrows*
Ohhhh. He genuinely thinks that he pivoted, and wonders why it didn't take.
That guy is indeed as un-self-aware as Lucille Bluth, and in exactly the same way.
off to see if Arrested Development is on Netflix
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:02 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
(When I see “BoB,” my first thought—now, forever, and always—is “FROG BLAST THE VENT CORE!”)
posted by nicepersonality at 2:04 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by nicepersonality at 2:04 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
Uhh...is Trump Bingo a thing beyond right here? Or has the reporter been reading these threads?
I can't quite tell if this is sort of an example of convergent evolution, just the blitzkrieg-zeitgeist of our time; or if it's real: -- but I have more than a few times in the past months had the feeling that a lot of pretty well-known and influential media types keep an eye on these threads.
this probably belongs in meta, though
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:07 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
I can't quite tell if this is sort of an example of convergent evolution, just the blitzkrieg-zeitgeist of our time; or if it's real: -- but I have more than a few times in the past months had the feeling that a lot of pretty well-known and influential media types keep an eye on these threads.
this probably belongs in meta, though
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:07 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
I am absolutely certain that when Trump loses the person he'll blame the most is Pence. Trump's 70, he's got exquisite health care, and so we may be looking forward to over two decades of Trump whining about how that goddamned Pence ruined everything and that if he had went with his gut and picked Christie, he would have been President for Life.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:08 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:08 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
he's got exquisite health care,
You kidding? He'll be lucky he doesn't pitch an infarct within the week.
posted by adamgreenfield at 2:12 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
You kidding? He'll be lucky he doesn't pitch an infarct within the week.
posted by adamgreenfield at 2:12 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
I know the thread has moved on since the discussion of paid speeches, but the problem isn't that people can get rich giving speeches or that it's common among public figures and celebrities, the problem is that for politicians it subverts and circumvents campaign finance restrictions. That's a big problem. Money is the biggest threat to our democracy. That's true even if we like the politician.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:12 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:12 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
Pence humiliated Indiana nationally. He's got his fans among the sorts who don't care about that or the lost economic opportunities as much as they care about sticking it to QUILTBAG people, but everybody else hates the bastard.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:14 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:14 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
Katrina Pierson is apparently blaming the Afghanistan lie on "audio disruptions and echoes".
posted by peacheater at 2:16 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 2:16 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
Uhh...is Trump Bingo a thing beyond right here? Or has the reporter been reading these threads?
X Bingo is a pretty common thing, and "Yo Momma joke" is just out there enough that it sounds like something that would be on it, after the fact.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:19 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
X Bingo is a pretty common thing, and "Yo Momma joke" is just out there enough that it sounds like something that would be on it, after the fact.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:19 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
Katrina Pierson needs to back away from public life. She is fundamentally incapable of being an effective spokesperson for any cause whatsoever.
I feel bad for her. So blinded by her own imagined brilliance.
posted by yesster at 2:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [11 favorites]
I feel bad for her. So blinded by her own imagined brilliance.
posted by yesster at 2:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [11 favorites]
When talking about the rigged election in PA, Trump said "I mean that 100%." This morning, Katrina Pierson was on CNN trying to explain what he meant by "I mean that 100%."
Words really have become meaningless I guess.
posted by marxchivist at 2:28 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
Words really have become meaningless I guess.
posted by marxchivist at 2:28 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
Out of curiousity (and because I actually have time to waste) I went on a tour of other internet places to see how some are dealing with all of the negative news and polling for Trump.
I discovered:
Trump is going to definitely win.
If you read the data correctly he will take 40 states.
When asked for explanations on how to read the data it's basically boils down to what I will call 'gut science'.
The main reason the polls are saying Clinton is so high is all the media is in it for Clinton because they are:
A: Terrified of Trump because he is such a powerful anti-globalist and all the media and everyone is globalist and he's going to destroy everything globalist.
B: They are all involved in the set-up for Clinton rigging it so she wins and if the polls showed the real situation then it won't work. (How this fits with Trump winning I dunno. Just go with it I guess...) This set-up involves most RNC officials and lots and lots of RINOs. Also maybe some of Trump's campaign people are RINOs and doing things to him on the inside.
Mostly though it's Trump will be a winner..... even if he 'loses' cause there is no way that the majority of Americans don't think he is the most amazing person evah.
posted by Jalliah at 2:29 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
I discovered:
Trump is going to definitely win.
If you read the data correctly he will take 40 states.
When asked for explanations on how to read the data it's basically boils down to what I will call 'gut science'.
The main reason the polls are saying Clinton is so high is all the media is in it for Clinton because they are:
A: Terrified of Trump because he is such a powerful anti-globalist and all the media and everyone is globalist and he's going to destroy everything globalist.
B: They are all involved in the set-up for Clinton rigging it so she wins and if the polls showed the real situation then it won't work. (How this fits with Trump winning I dunno. Just go with it I guess...) This set-up involves most RNC officials and lots and lots of RINOs. Also maybe some of Trump's campaign people are RINOs and doing things to him on the inside.
Mostly though it's Trump will be a winner..... even if he 'loses' cause there is no way that the majority of Americans don't think he is the most amazing person evah.
posted by Jalliah at 2:29 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
>he's got exquisite health care,
You kidding? He'll be lucky he doesn't pitch an infarct within the week.
I wonder if he opted out of premium-free Medicare Part A. If he didn't, the government can help him with some of those hospital bills.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:35 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
You kidding? He'll be lucky he doesn't pitch an infarct within the week.
I wonder if he opted out of premium-free Medicare Part A. If he didn't, the government can help him with some of those hospital bills.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:35 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Words really have become meaningless I guess.
Well they are meaningless for Trump, and have been for a long time. For Trump words are tools which can be used to manipulate people. You can string them together in different ways for various purposes, such as to convey information or record truth, but the purpose for which Trump strings words together is to manipulate our emotions. He operates on the theory that a powerful emotionally loaded image is far more useful than some stupid detail like the truth.
And the thing is, that got him the Republican nomination. I was kind of assuming he knew he knew he'd have to pivot in the general, and that someone using pure propaganda techniques so shamelessly would know that he was singing to a different audience. But I am now starting to think that while he gauged the Republican primary voters with uncanny accuracy, that may have been less brilliance than fortunate coincidence.
Of course Trump thinks everything that goes right for him demonstrates his brilliance, and everything that goes wrong proves dark forces are working against him. Which is another good reason to make sure he never is allowed anywhere near a political office.
posted by Bringer Tom at 2:37 PM on August 13, 2016 [18 favorites]
Well they are meaningless for Trump, and have been for a long time. For Trump words are tools which can be used to manipulate people. You can string them together in different ways for various purposes, such as to convey information or record truth, but the purpose for which Trump strings words together is to manipulate our emotions. He operates on the theory that a powerful emotionally loaded image is far more useful than some stupid detail like the truth.
And the thing is, that got him the Republican nomination. I was kind of assuming he knew he knew he'd have to pivot in the general, and that someone using pure propaganda techniques so shamelessly would know that he was singing to a different audience. But I am now starting to think that while he gauged the Republican primary voters with uncanny accuracy, that may have been less brilliance than fortunate coincidence.
Of course Trump thinks everything that goes right for him demonstrates his brilliance, and everything that goes wrong proves dark forces are working against him. Which is another good reason to make sure he never is allowed anywhere near a political office.
posted by Bringer Tom at 2:37 PM on August 13, 2016 [18 favorites]
I feel bad for her. So blinded by her own imagined brilliance.
She's the perfect spokesperson for a Dunning-Kruger campaign.
posted by dirigibleman at 2:39 PM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
She's the perfect spokesperson for a Dunning-Kruger campaign.
posted by dirigibleman at 2:39 PM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
> "Katrina Pierson is apparently blaming the Afghanistan lie on 'audio disruptions and echoes'."
I guess it's good on them that they've successfully identified their core constituency as "idiots who will swallow anything".
posted by kyrademon at 2:39 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
I guess it's good on them that they've successfully identified their core constituency as "idiots who will swallow anything".
posted by kyrademon at 2:39 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
"B: They are all involved in the set-up for Clinton rigging it so she wins and if the polls showed the real situation then it won't work. (How this fits with Trump winning I dunno. Just go with it I guess...) This set-up involves most RNC officials and lots and lots of RINOs. Also maybe some of Trump's campaign people are RINOs and doing things to him on the inside."
At least the paranoia characteristic of Trump's narcissism is playing it by the book.
posted by erisfree at 2:47 PM on August 13, 2016
At least the paranoia characteristic of Trump's narcissism is playing it by the book.
posted by erisfree at 2:47 PM on August 13, 2016
Pierson will do all right for herself. Like terrible bands that play malls and state fairs even when they're jokes nationwide, she'll land on her feet in some small market. After all, she's pretty, and she's been on CNN. Bottom feeders have their place in every ecosystem.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:52 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 2:52 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Y'all! Slow down. I just want to address a serious issue upthread: A cube... with four sides.
A cube.
With four sides.
Have you ever seen all these supposed "other sides" at once? Think about it dude. Also, d'ya ever really look at your hand?
posted by bongo_x at 2:59 PM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
A cube.
With four sides.
Have you ever seen all these supposed "other sides" at once? Think about it dude. Also, d'ya ever really look at your hand?
posted by bongo_x at 2:59 PM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
Like terrible bands that play malls and state fairs even when they're jokes nationwide
I see you, too, have been reading about the latter-day adventures of Smash Mouth.
posted by adamgreenfield at 2:59 PM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
I see you, too, have been reading about the latter-day adventures of Smash Mouth.
posted by adamgreenfield at 2:59 PM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
> "I see you, too, have been reading about the latter-day adventures of Smash Mouth."
Hey now.
posted by kyrademon at 3:03 PM on August 13, 2016 [35 favorites]
Hey now.
posted by kyrademon at 3:03 PM on August 13, 2016 [35 favorites]
He Likes Trump. She Doesn’t. Can This Marriage Be Saved?
Paging Mr. Betteridge. Mr. Betterdige to the NYT Style Section please.
posted by The Bellman at 3:04 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Paging Mr. Betteridge. Mr. Betterdige to the NYT Style Section please.
posted by The Bellman at 3:04 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
I can imagine staying with someone who voted for Romney. But Trump? I just don't see how I could do that.
posted by Justinian at 3:06 PM on August 13, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 3:06 PM on August 13, 2016 [24 favorites]
The article about white nationalist conservatism linked above struck a chord with me. Does anyone have any thoughtful sources that describe what Republican conservatism would be without the white, male, cishet nationalist Southern Strategy? A friend of mine has argued that modern conservatism should stress strong local and state government and weakened federalism with less emphasis on the social conservatism that doesn't make much sense in certain segments of modern society--in particular, young urbanites. I'd be inclined to agree with him, but he's not conservative, so it all feels like napkin brainstorming. Having grown up with Southern Strategy conservatism it's almost impossible for me imagine what modern conservatism would be like without that ugly throughline.
In other news, the recent phone number and e-mail dump courtesy of Guccifer 2.0 has resulted in some ugliness for Democratic politicians. Waaay back in the early 90's I was part of a 2600 group that engaged mostly in white hat and informational hacking and we would talk about how black hats would eventually influence politics and how the criminal justice system was woefully unprepared to handle the coming flood of hackers from Eastern Europe and Asia. It's one thing to throw Mitnick in solitary for eight months and quite another to do something about Russian and Chinese infiltrations. More frustratingly, a thing like the Clinton e-mail server is woefully familiar to any sysadmin who has attempted to run a tight ship from a security standpoint. I would tell my bosses that systems could be secure or convenient, never both. Convenience won every time and I would get stuck managing the fallout when convenience resulted in damaging breaches. I have some confidence in places like the NSA and the CIA, but the State Department and Congressional systems? Not so much, mostly because of the prevailing culture of those groups. I predict that more of this sort of thing will come before November.
posted by xyzzy at 3:07 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
In other news, the recent phone number and e-mail dump courtesy of Guccifer 2.0 has resulted in some ugliness for Democratic politicians. Waaay back in the early 90's I was part of a 2600 group that engaged mostly in white hat and informational hacking and we would talk about how black hats would eventually influence politics and how the criminal justice system was woefully unprepared to handle the coming flood of hackers from Eastern Europe and Asia. It's one thing to throw Mitnick in solitary for eight months and quite another to do something about Russian and Chinese infiltrations. More frustratingly, a thing like the Clinton e-mail server is woefully familiar to any sysadmin who has attempted to run a tight ship from a security standpoint. I would tell my bosses that systems could be secure or convenient, never both. Convenience won every time and I would get stuck managing the fallout when convenience resulted in damaging breaches. I have some confidence in places like the NSA and the CIA, but the State Department and Congressional systems? Not so much, mostly because of the prevailing culture of those groups. I predict that more of this sort of thing will come before November.
posted by xyzzy at 3:07 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
> A friend of mine was asked by his then very young children why some movies and television shows were in black and white instead of color. He told them that when he was young, there was no color -- that it hadn't been invented yet
You know Calvin's dad?
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:09 PM on August 13, 2016 [33 favorites]
You know Calvin's dad?
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:09 PM on August 13, 2016 [33 favorites]
I can imagine staying with someone who voted for Romney. But Trump? I just don't see how I could do that.
As a Southern white woman, I got the unspoken but clear lesson that it was my job to learn how to love people with terrible opinions. But they're already related to me. I don't have to sign up for anyone extra.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:11 PM on August 13, 2016 [47 favorites]
As a Southern white woman, I got the unspoken but clear lesson that it was my job to learn how to love people with terrible opinions. But they're already related to me. I don't have to sign up for anyone extra.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:11 PM on August 13, 2016 [47 favorites]
Bad news, guys. Pack it in. This guy says Trump will win, and he built an app.
From the linked article:
(Also, they describe the guy as "co-founder of San Diego-based Crazy Raccoons." So at least he's a bit more self-aware than Katrina Pierson.)
posted by PlusDistance at 3:12 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
From the linked article:
His app poses questions and polls responses based on an average of 100,000 daily users. “I go with Trump, based on what we see.”In statistics, they call this the Family Feud Algorithm.
(Also, they describe the guy as "co-founder of San Diego-based Crazy Raccoons." So at least he's a bit more self-aware than Katrina Pierson.)
posted by PlusDistance at 3:12 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Having grown up with Southern Strategy conservatism it's almost impossible for me imagine what modern conservatism would be like without that ugly throughline.
Silicon Valley, surely. Disruption for all!
posted by Countess Elena at 3:13 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
Silicon Valley, surely. Disruption for all!
posted by Countess Elena at 3:13 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
More frustratingly, a thing like the Clinton e-mail server is woefully familiar to any sysadmin who has attempted to run a tight ship from a security standpoint.
What isn't familiar is that the State Department email server was hacked. We don't know Clinton's was.
posted by Francis at 3:14 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
What isn't familiar is that the State Department email server was hacked. We don't know Clinton's was.
posted by Francis at 3:14 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
What isn't familiar is that the State Department email server was hacked. We don't know Clinton's was.I didn't mean to imply that Clinton's server was hacked, but its existence is certainly a result of a desire for convenience. I don't have time to dig up the exact quote right now, but private servers tend to get set up in order to avoid having to deal with multiple e-mail addresses and/or access devices.
posted by xyzzy at 3:17 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Max Ehrenfreund and Jeff Guo at The Washington Post: “A massive new study debunks a widespread theory for Donald Trump’s success”
Economic distress and anxiety across working-class white America have become a widely discussed explanation for the success of Donald Trump. It seems to make sense…
Yet a major new analysis from Gallup, based on 87,000 interviews the polling company conducted over the past year, suggests this narrative is not complete. While there does seem to be a relationship between economic anxiety and Trump's appeal, the straightforward connection that many observers have assumed does not appear in the data.posted by Going To Maine at 3:23 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
You don't have a problem with Clinton's honesty, you have a problem with capitalism. She is literally one of the best people in the world at giving speeches and talking to people because that's what politicians do. That's why she has a very good shot at being the president. Because she is good at those things.
Now it sucks that the people who can hire the best of the best are by definition the rich and elite, and not nonprofits and organizations with shoestring budgets trying to do good in the world. But that is a feature of capitalism, not feature of any particular person's honesty.
uhh, do you really think investment banks are giving people half a million dollars to talk for half an hour because they're interested in the subject of their speeches?
posted by p3on at 3:24 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Now it sucks that the people who can hire the best of the best are by definition the rich and elite, and not nonprofits and organizations with shoestring budgets trying to do good in the world. But that is a feature of capitalism, not feature of any particular person's honesty.
uhh, do you really think investment banks are giving people half a million dollars to talk for half an hour because they're interested in the subject of their speeches?
posted by p3on at 3:24 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
> Well they are meaningless for Trump, and have been for a long time. For Trump words are tools which can be used to manipulate people. You can string them together in different ways for various purposes, such as to convey information or record truth, but the purpose for which Trump strings words together is to manipulate our emotions. He operates on the theory that a powerful emotionally loaded image is far more useful than some stupid detail like the truth.
Okay but I think something we're ready for is to abandon the idea that words primarily function through conveying meaning — and I'm talking everyone's words, rather than just Trump's. We may like to adopt a hermeneutic scheme wherein we can assess the value of a given statement by intuiting its meaning and then determining whether or not that meaning corresponds to an external meaning. In this sort of scheme, we could sort words into the category "true," for words that correspond to reality, "false," for words that fail to correspond to reality, "bullshit" for words uttered by people who don't care whether or not their words correspond to reality, and so forth. Unfortunately, no one uses language that way; I'm not certain it's even possible to use language that way. Speech is not a transparent, transcendent window unveiling the hurly-burly of reality; instead, it's a scheme for organizing reality that is immanent to the hurly-burly it describes. Language use is always in one way or another persuasive rather than purely descriptive; even the most disinterested-seeming texts are attempts to persuade the reader to adopt an interpretation of reality, via various means not limited to mere correspondence with that external reality,
As such, we must instead adopt interpretive schema whereby we measure speech acts by their effects. Why must we do this? First, we must do this because it is a more accurate way to understand language use than the "language is for conveying information" idea we might at first prefer. Moreover though, we must do this so as to not get rolled by people, people smarter than Trump, who correctly understand language in terms of effects and consequences rather than meaning and ideals.
On the whole, we do not use words to identify truths about the universe; instead, we use them to change things. Correspondence between word and truth, in this framework, becomes just one of many rhetorical tools available to speakers — if, occasionally, a crucial one. The "meaning" of a statement becomes not something you can figure out through looking up words in a dictionary then consulting the semantic rules by which those words are assembled into statements. Moreover, the value of the meaning of a statement cannot be determined through comparing it to reality. Instead, the meaning of any given statement is wrapped up in the results effected by that statement when it is delivered at a particular time to a particular audience in a particular context for a particular end. Appeal to truth, or a claim to correspondence with extant reality, is one tool used to persuade listeners. Let's call this type of rhetorical appeal logos, just to let everyone know that we're ripping off Aristotle — but let's not forget that logos is merely a type of persuasive tool among others.
The trick is not to denounce people like Trump as misusers of language or as bullshitters or whatever, but instead figuring out how to negotiate a path toward truth or the good or whatever while also acknowledging that language and meaning, as aspects of the world rather than things governing over it, cannot either embody transcendent truth or transparently and disinterestedly convey information.
The problem with Trump's language isn't that he uses rhetorical tools to persuade rather than to convey information. The problem is that outside of his very specific hothouse context, he's so fucking bad at it.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:27 PM on August 13, 2016 [28 favorites]
Okay but I think something we're ready for is to abandon the idea that words primarily function through conveying meaning — and I'm talking everyone's words, rather than just Trump's. We may like to adopt a hermeneutic scheme wherein we can assess the value of a given statement by intuiting its meaning and then determining whether or not that meaning corresponds to an external meaning. In this sort of scheme, we could sort words into the category "true," for words that correspond to reality, "false," for words that fail to correspond to reality, "bullshit" for words uttered by people who don't care whether or not their words correspond to reality, and so forth. Unfortunately, no one uses language that way; I'm not certain it's even possible to use language that way. Speech is not a transparent, transcendent window unveiling the hurly-burly of reality; instead, it's a scheme for organizing reality that is immanent to the hurly-burly it describes. Language use is always in one way or another persuasive rather than purely descriptive; even the most disinterested-seeming texts are attempts to persuade the reader to adopt an interpretation of reality, via various means not limited to mere correspondence with that external reality,
As such, we must instead adopt interpretive schema whereby we measure speech acts by their effects. Why must we do this? First, we must do this because it is a more accurate way to understand language use than the "language is for conveying information" idea we might at first prefer. Moreover though, we must do this so as to not get rolled by people, people smarter than Trump, who correctly understand language in terms of effects and consequences rather than meaning and ideals.
On the whole, we do not use words to identify truths about the universe; instead, we use them to change things. Correspondence between word and truth, in this framework, becomes just one of many rhetorical tools available to speakers — if, occasionally, a crucial one. The "meaning" of a statement becomes not something you can figure out through looking up words in a dictionary then consulting the semantic rules by which those words are assembled into statements. Moreover, the value of the meaning of a statement cannot be determined through comparing it to reality. Instead, the meaning of any given statement is wrapped up in the results effected by that statement when it is delivered at a particular time to a particular audience in a particular context for a particular end. Appeal to truth, or a claim to correspondence with extant reality, is one tool used to persuade listeners. Let's call this type of rhetorical appeal logos, just to let everyone know that we're ripping off Aristotle — but let's not forget that logos is merely a type of persuasive tool among others.
The trick is not to denounce people like Trump as misusers of language or as bullshitters or whatever, but instead figuring out how to negotiate a path toward truth or the good or whatever while also acknowledging that language and meaning, as aspects of the world rather than things governing over it, cannot either embody transcendent truth or transparently and disinterestedly convey information.
The problem with Trump's language isn't that he uses rhetorical tools to persuade rather than to convey information. The problem is that outside of his very specific hothouse context, he's so fucking bad at it.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:27 PM on August 13, 2016 [28 favorites]
uhh, do you really think investment banks are giving people half a million dollars to talk for half an hour because they're interested in the subject of their speeches?
As I mentioned. $200,000 (i.e. Hillary Clinton's speaker rate) is about the same of that of Blake Lively or Larry the Cable Guy. Or any one of dozens of other people. If you think someone is giving Blake Lively that much money then why?
posted by Francis at 3:28 PM on August 13, 2016 [40 favorites]
As I mentioned. $200,000 (i.e. Hillary Clinton's speaker rate) is about the same of that of Blake Lively or Larry the Cable Guy. Or any one of dozens of other people. If you think someone is giving Blake Lively that much money then why?
posted by Francis at 3:28 PM on August 13, 2016 [40 favorites]
uhh, do you really think investment banks are giving people half a million dollars to talk for half an hour because they're interested in the subject of their speeches?
Question. Does the fact she spoke to the American Camping Association's Cultural Exchange Program for $260,000 mean she's in the pocket of big camping or big visa prep? I need to know for this Facebook post I'm working on and I need to be certain I have her corporate buyers correct.
posted by Talez at 3:30 PM on August 13, 2016 [65 favorites]
Question. Does the fact she spoke to the American Camping Association's Cultural Exchange Program for $260,000 mean she's in the pocket of big camping or big visa prep? I need to know for this Facebook post I'm working on and I need to be certain I have her corporate buyers correct.
posted by Talez at 3:30 PM on August 13, 2016 [65 favorites]
uhh, do you really think investment banks are giving people half a million dollars to talk for half an hour because they're interested in the subject of their speeches?
Possibly. It could also be prestige that they are after. It doesn't have to be nefarious.
posted by Groundhog Week at 3:30 PM on August 13, 2016 [15 favorites]
Possibly. It could also be prestige that they are after. It doesn't have to be nefarious.
posted by Groundhog Week at 3:30 PM on August 13, 2016 [15 favorites]
uhh, do you really think investment banks are giving people half a million dollars to talk for half an hour because they're interested in the subject of their speeches?
As I mentioned. $200,000 (i.e. Hillary Clinton's speaker rate) is about the same of that of Blake Lively or Larry the Cable Guy. Or any one of dozens of other people. If you think someone is giving Blake Lively that much money then why?
The issue is presumably not the size of the rate but the target audience. But then, if a global multinational weren’t interested in the views of a former secretary of state, who would be?
posted by Going To Maine at 3:31 PM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
As I mentioned. $200,000 (i.e. Hillary Clinton's speaker rate) is about the same of that of Blake Lively or Larry the Cable Guy. Or any one of dozens of other people. If you think someone is giving Blake Lively that much money then why?
The issue is presumably not the size of the rate but the target audience. But then, if a global multinational weren’t interested in the views of a former secretary of state, who would be?
posted by Going To Maine at 3:31 PM on August 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
Does anyone have any thoughtful sources that describe what Republican conservatism would be without the white, male, cishet nationalist Southern Strategy?
I don't have any sources for you, but western Canadian conservatism (the Reform strand, or something like the B.C. provincial Liberals, not the eastern PC strand) is probably a useful template for what north American conservatism looks like when influenced by Reaganism in the US (and by Thatcherism in the UK) but without... well, the American South.
posted by holgate at 3:31 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
I don't have any sources for you, but western Canadian conservatism (the Reform strand, or something like the B.C. provincial Liberals, not the eastern PC strand) is probably a useful template for what north American conservatism looks like when influenced by Reaganism in the US (and by Thatcherism in the UK) but without... well, the American South.
posted by holgate at 3:31 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
basically the short version is that what we conventionally think of as the meaning of a statement is instead just one component of the effect of that statement, and that the actual meaning of a statement lies in the effect of that statement within a given context.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:31 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:31 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
All these insinuations about Clinton taking money for speeches - where is there any indication that she has ever acted in a pro-corporate way in terms of her policies? As far as I can see she has consistently been one of the most liberal members of the Senate in terms of her voting record. If any banks think they can influence her policy by paying her the amounts that one would pay a B-list movie star for a speech, they are stupid and wasting their money (and I don't think this is what is happening).
Is it so crazy that people might want to hear the former Secretary of State speak? Is it so crazy that employees of a bank might want to hear one of the most powerful women in the world speak? Is it so crazy that they would compensate her at the accepted going rate?
posted by peacheater at 3:32 PM on August 13, 2016 [61 favorites]
Is it so crazy that people might want to hear the former Secretary of State speak? Is it so crazy that employees of a bank might want to hear one of the most powerful women in the world speak? Is it so crazy that they would compensate her at the accepted going rate?
posted by peacheater at 3:32 PM on August 13, 2016 [61 favorites]
My hermeneutic must be broken. I didn't understand any of that.
posted by JackFlash at 3:33 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by JackFlash at 3:33 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
But then, if a global multinational weren’t interested in the views of a former secretary of state, who would be?
Xerox paid her $225K. You think you know a person and then it turns out they're in the pocket of big copier.
posted by Talez at 3:33 PM on August 13, 2016 [34 favorites]
Xerox paid her $225K. You think you know a person and then it turns out they're in the pocket of big copier.
posted by Talez at 3:33 PM on August 13, 2016 [34 favorites]
KQED Forum: “David Cay Johnston Digs Into ‘The Making of Donald Trump’”
Donald Trump “is a world class narcissist,” says David Cay Johnston. The Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist doesn’t pull any punches about the Republican presidential nominee in the new book, “The Making of Donald Trump.” Johnston follows the document trail from Trump’s start as a trust fund kid to his gold-plated business successes and finally, to Trump’s litigation and financial troubles.posted by Going To Maine at 3:34 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
uhh, do you really think investment banks are giving people half a million dollars to talk for half an hour because they're interested in the subject of their speeches?
The University of Houston paid $135,000 to get Matthew McConaughey as a commencement speaker. I can't think of a compelling reason why the University of Houston would be trying to curry favor with Matthew McConaughey.
The same people are paying George W for speeches. Are they trying to bribe him too?
posted by zachlipton at 3:34 PM on August 13, 2016 [30 favorites]
The University of Houston paid $135,000 to get Matthew McConaughey as a commencement speaker. I can't think of a compelling reason why the University of Houston would be trying to curry favor with Matthew McConaughey.
The same people are paying George W for speeches. Are they trying to bribe him too?
posted by zachlipton at 3:34 PM on August 13, 2016 [30 favorites]
The University of Houston paid $135,000 to get Matthew McConaughey as a commencement speaker. I can't think of a compelling reason why the University of Houston would be trying to curry favor with Matthew McConaughey.
Obviously the Dean has a screenplay they've been working on and they want to get in front of the right people in Hollywood.
posted by Talez at 3:35 PM on August 13, 2016 [29 favorites]
Obviously the Dean has a screenplay they've been working on and they want to get in front of the right people in Hollywood.
posted by Talez at 3:35 PM on August 13, 2016 [29 favorites]
Max Ehrenfreund and Jeff Guo at The Washington Post: “A massive new study debunks a widespread theory for Donald Trump’s success”
New Study Reveals That the Washington Post Is Eager to Dismiss Economic Explanations for Trump’s Rise
The aims of these three groups are entirely irreconcilable. The aim of the High is to remain where they are. The aim of the Middle is to change places with the High. The aim of the Low, when they have an aim -- for it is an abiding characteristic of the Low that they are too much crushed by drudgery to be more than intermittently conscious of anything outside their daily lives -- is to abolish all distinctions and create a society in which all men shall be equal.
___
On the whole, we do not use words to identify truths about the universe; instead, we use them to change things.
"Reasoning was not designed to pursue the truth. Reasoning was designed by evolution to help us win arguments. That's why they call it The Argumentative Theory of Reasoning.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 3:38 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
New Study Reveals That the Washington Post Is Eager to Dismiss Economic Explanations for Trump’s Rise
The aims of these three groups are entirely irreconcilable. The aim of the High is to remain where they are. The aim of the Middle is to change places with the High. The aim of the Low, when they have an aim -- for it is an abiding characteristic of the Low that they are too much crushed by drudgery to be more than intermittently conscious of anything outside their daily lives -- is to abolish all distinctions and create a society in which all men shall be equal.
___
On the whole, we do not use words to identify truths about the universe; instead, we use them to change things.
"Reasoning was not designed to pursue the truth. Reasoning was designed by evolution to help us win arguments. That's why they call it The Argumentative Theory of Reasoning.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 3:38 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
I was going to say that either all the molecules in and around the chair I'm sitting in will spontaneously reorganize themselves into Joan Holloway, or they won't. -- ROU_Xenophobe
The new image in my mind makes me revisit my assumption that Christina Hendricks's hips are invulnerable.
Anyone know a good Orthopedic surgeon on Madison Avenue?
posted by rokusan at 3:40 PM on August 13, 2016
The new image in my mind makes me revisit my assumption that Christina Hendricks's hips are invulnerable.
Anyone know a good Orthopedic surgeon on Madison Avenue?
posted by rokusan at 3:40 PM on August 13, 2016
the idea that our words must reflect what we believe is something like the idea that someone whose political ideals better align with Jill Stein's or Bernie Sanders' or Evan McMullin's or whoever's should vote for that person instead of voting for Hilary Clinton.
Speaking, like voting, is about exerting power rather than expressing ideals.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:42 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Speaking, like voting, is about exerting power rather than expressing ideals.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:42 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Goldman Sachs is, in fact, an organization made up of people. Some of those people are horrible, some aren't (we have a family friend--a former gr8ad student of my dad's--who got snapped up by Goldman Sachs in the late 80s just for being goddamn brilliant) and many of them likely would be quite eager to hear a former Sec State speak. Going to cool, interesting events is a perk at a lot of companies. Having conferences where the keynote speaker has zilch to do with the actual conference topic is also totally a thing. Somtime's it's the only thing that makes a conference bearable. But I'm sure Sugata Mitra only spoke at that one conference I went to last year because he wanted to get in the pocket of Big Corporate Training.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:43 PM on August 13, 2016 [35 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:43 PM on August 13, 2016 [35 favorites]
Getting to the end of these election threads is like getting to the end of Inifinite Jest...
So you're suggesting I should throw my laptop across the room, yell "Fuck you, Oxydude!" and then pick it up again and start reading the thread again from the beginning, only more carefully this time?
Because seriously, fuck you and RIP at the same time, DFW.
posted by rokusan at 3:43 PM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
So you're suggesting I should throw my laptop across the room, yell "Fuck you, Oxydude!" and then pick it up again and start reading the thread again from the beginning, only more carefully this time?
Because seriously, fuck you and RIP at the same time, DFW.
posted by rokusan at 3:43 PM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
uhh, do you really think investment banks are giving people half a million dollars to talk for half an hour because they're interested in the subject of their speeches?
They give her $200K to give a talk because
(a) It's a reward to give out to people who've done well in the firm and it's cheaper than actually giving them raises
(b) It's a reward to give out to current customers to make them feel all important and it's cheaper than cutting the rates they charge
(c) It's an inducement to get potential customers to show up so you can sell shit to them, and the bang for the buck is good enough
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:44 PM on August 13, 2016 [21 favorites]
They give her $200K to give a talk because
(a) It's a reward to give out to people who've done well in the firm and it's cheaper than actually giving them raises
(b) It's a reward to give out to current customers to make them feel all important and it's cheaper than cutting the rates they charge
(c) It's an inducement to get potential customers to show up so you can sell shit to them, and the bang for the buck is good enough
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:44 PM on August 13, 2016 [21 favorites]
The whole Clinton-is-corrupt-because-of-speeches thing actually reminds me a lot of Jon Ronson’s Them and his analysis of the Bilderberg Group. (I have a feeling I’ve made this comment before, but I like it, so I’m making it again.)
Ronson profiles and travels with some folks who believe that the Bilderberg Group is a secret plot to destroy the world by tying together industry and government in horrible and corrupt ways. Ronson travels to Bilderberg with the conspiracy guys, there are various hijinx, etc. He also ends up interviewing some Bilderberg attendees. And basically, it turns out that the conspiracy theorists are absolutely right, but also absolutely wrong: Bilderberg is an attempt to get industry figures to form connections with up-and-coming political figures. It happens because industrialists wants the politicians of the future to have a broad base of knowledge from folks with expertise in the various areas. They no doubt have opinions and biases, but they also have knowledge, and politics -like business, or most any field, is one where it helps to know people.
If you perceive these interactions as inherently corrupt, it’s because of a bedrock distrust of the system and/or the actors involved. If you perceive these interactions as benign, it’s because of a bedrock trust of the system and/or the actors involved. The description itself is largely neutral.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:44 PM on August 13, 2016 [36 favorites]
Ronson profiles and travels with some folks who believe that the Bilderberg Group is a secret plot to destroy the world by tying together industry and government in horrible and corrupt ways. Ronson travels to Bilderberg with the conspiracy guys, there are various hijinx, etc. He also ends up interviewing some Bilderberg attendees. And basically, it turns out that the conspiracy theorists are absolutely right, but also absolutely wrong: Bilderberg is an attempt to get industry figures to form connections with up-and-coming political figures. It happens because industrialists wants the politicians of the future to have a broad base of knowledge from folks with expertise in the various areas. They no doubt have opinions and biases, but they also have knowledge, and politics -like business, or most any field, is one where it helps to know people.
If you perceive these interactions as inherently corrupt, it’s because of a bedrock distrust of the system and/or the actors involved. If you perceive these interactions as benign, it’s because of a bedrock trust of the system and/or the actors involved. The description itself is largely neutral.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:44 PM on August 13, 2016 [36 favorites]
Back of the envelope, with a few known-erroneous assumtions. Say Trump started working at 20 years of age with zero dollars (which we know is false), for him to be worth $1 billion (doubtful) at his current age of 70 (Wikipedia says so), he would need to have net $20 million for every single one of those years.
It's an overly simplified envelope-back grade number, but $20 million is obscene, especially when compared to Hillary Clinton's "paltry`" $1.8ish million of gross income last year, as claimed on her taxes.
I'm a bit dismissive of sexism claims normally, but given that Hillary Clinton is "only" getting B-list pop-entertainer speaking fees, yet being hated for it, sexism is what my mind reaches for. That or I'm alone in placing her effect on the world as higher than Larry the Cable Guy.
posted by fragmede at 3:46 PM on August 13, 2016 [37 favorites]
It's an overly simplified envelope-back grade number, but $20 million is obscene, especially when compared to Hillary Clinton's "paltry`" $1.8ish million of gross income last year, as claimed on her taxes.
I'm a bit dismissive of sexism claims normally, but given that Hillary Clinton is "only" getting B-list pop-entertainer speaking fees, yet being hated for it, sexism is what my mind reaches for. That or I'm alone in placing her effect on the world as higher than Larry the Cable Guy.
posted by fragmede at 3:46 PM on August 13, 2016 [37 favorites]
The University of Houston paid $135,000 to get Matthew McConaughey as a commencement speaker. I can't think of a compelling reason why the University of Houston would be trying to curry favor with Matthew McConaughey.
Uh, because he’s a freaky dreamboat.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:47 PM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
Uh, because he’s a freaky dreamboat.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:47 PM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
Trump Live (Fairfield, CT)
I probably can't liveblog this one.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:47 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
I probably can't liveblog this one.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:47 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
A cube... With four sides.
Have you ever seen all these supposed "other sides" at once? Think about it dude. Also, d'ya ever really look at your hand?
So true. Too, have you ever noticed that even without a mirror, you can always see the end of your own nose right there? I mean just look at it. It's always right there, in the way, all the time, once you start thinking about it.
Also, notice how much you're about to hate me for pointing this out?
posted by rokusan at 3:48 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
Have you ever seen all these supposed "other sides" at once? Think about it dude. Also, d'ya ever really look at your hand?
So true. Too, have you ever noticed that even without a mirror, you can always see the end of your own nose right there? I mean just look at it. It's always right there, in the way, all the time, once you start thinking about it.
Also, notice how much you're about to hate me for pointing this out?
posted by rokusan at 3:48 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
For the record I think that this election season is less like Infinite Jest and more like Gravity's Rainbow. Unfortunately this comment box is far too small to accommodate my proof of this statement.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:48 PM on August 13, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:48 PM on August 13, 2016 [15 favorites]
If you perceive these interactions as inherently corrupt, it’s because of a bedrock distrust of the system and/or the actors involved. If you perceive these interactions as benign, it’s because of a bedrock trust of the system and/or the actors involved. The description itself is largely neutral.
That's a great perspective, Going to Maine. It's a sort of referendum on whether business-as-usual is a good or bad thing in one's mind.
To me, unless Clinton's fees (adjusted for inflation) are way out of line with other former Senators or Secretaries of State -- and I don't think they are? -- then it's really only an issue of her slamming Wall Street with words while potentially (we'll find out later) rewarding them with deeds. It's a question of whether the folks signing the check see it as hiring a former SoS or a future President. One of those is a corrupt way to see it, one isn't.
Either way, it's probably unfair (or telling?) to compare her fees to ex-Presidents, though.
posted by rokusan at 3:52 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
That's a great perspective, Going to Maine. It's a sort of referendum on whether business-as-usual is a good or bad thing in one's mind.
To me, unless Clinton's fees (adjusted for inflation) are way out of line with other former Senators or Secretaries of State -- and I don't think they are? -- then it's really only an issue of her slamming Wall Street with words while potentially (we'll find out later) rewarding them with deeds. It's a question of whether the folks signing the check see it as hiring a former SoS or a future President. One of those is a corrupt way to see it, one isn't.
Either way, it's probably unfair (or telling?) to compare her fees to ex-Presidents, though.
posted by rokusan at 3:52 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
So true. Too, have you ever noticed that even without a mirror, you can always see the end of your own nose right there?
Nope. I've double-checked. There is no way I can see my nose.
posted by mumimor at 3:57 PM on August 13, 2016
Nope. I've double-checked. There is no way I can see my nose.
posted by mumimor at 3:57 PM on August 13, 2016
With regard to speaking fees, I can only speak from personal experience, but as someone who does this more or less for a living holgate has the core truth of it.
You ask substantial fees when there's nothing in particular about a destination, a venue, a topic or an audience that excites you, or you're simply exhausted and comprehensively travelfucked and can barely face the thought of heading back to the airport for another round. This is what frees you up to give all the pro bono talks you want to groups that deserve it and couldn't afford you otherwise.
I'll certainly respect anyone who, for principled reasons, feels the whole business of paid speaking engagements is somehow ethically untenable, or simply thinks that the amounts on offer are disproportionate to the degree of collective benefit a speaker sheds upon the world in giving a presentation like this. But as things stand, Hillary's fees are not even remotely out of line for a speaker of her experience and caliber, and as others here have observed, whenever she's called out I tend to wonder why other prominent public people commanding equal or greater fees aren't being exposed to nearly the same intensity of scrutiny.
posted by adamgreenfield at 3:57 PM on August 13, 2016 [46 favorites]
You ask substantial fees when there's nothing in particular about a destination, a venue, a topic or an audience that excites you, or you're simply exhausted and comprehensively travelfucked and can barely face the thought of heading back to the airport for another round. This is what frees you up to give all the pro bono talks you want to groups that deserve it and couldn't afford you otherwise.
I'll certainly respect anyone who, for principled reasons, feels the whole business of paid speaking engagements is somehow ethically untenable, or simply thinks that the amounts on offer are disproportionate to the degree of collective benefit a speaker sheds upon the world in giving a presentation like this. But as things stand, Hillary's fees are not even remotely out of line for a speaker of her experience and caliber, and as others here have observed, whenever she's called out I tend to wonder why other prominent public people commanding equal or greater fees aren't being exposed to nearly the same intensity of scrutiny.
posted by adamgreenfield at 3:57 PM on August 13, 2016 [46 favorites]
Hillary Clinton is masterful at working within the system, even when the system is designed for somebody else's benefit, while working to change things (not all that successfully, but that could change big after November). That's why she gets paid to speak at Goldman Sachs (while Trump is paying an ex-Goldman Sachs VP to do his campaign financial work AND lead his economic team... let's not not even start about that bankster's competence). She commits herself to overturning Citizens United while working with its current rules for a massively successful fundraising effort. And her infamous "private server" at the State Dept. was an extension of what Republican Secretaries had done before her... and did I see that the Official State Department server got hacked while HERS DIDN'T? Sounds incredibly pragmatic to me.
And her main contribution to the Bill Clinton Administration was the Health Care Initiative. Everything I've seen indicates that she was not ready for that big, difficult and risky effort, but she learned a LOT from the experience and has been learning even more since. (What Bill learned was to distance himself from his Liberal Wife, let her take the blame, and then turn politically rightward... I don't recall her visible at all with his terrible Crime and Welfare initiatives)
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:59 PM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
And her main contribution to the Bill Clinton Administration was the Health Care Initiative. Everything I've seen indicates that she was not ready for that big, difficult and risky effort, but she learned a LOT from the experience and has been learning even more since. (What Bill learned was to distance himself from his Liberal Wife, let her take the blame, and then turn politically rightward... I don't recall her visible at all with his terrible Crime and Welfare initiatives)
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:59 PM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
Speaking, like voting, is about exerting power rather than expressing ideals.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:42 PM on August 13 [1 favorite −] Favorite added! [!]
I think, rather, that to what ends you use the tool of language says quite a bit about who you are and how you view the world. And I think this partially explains so many people's failure to understand Trump's appeal for so long. If you've always believed that a shared reality, or the desire to share a reality, is the premise and point of communication, encountering a deluded and deluding narcissist like Trump for the first time is utterly bewildering. And while you're knocked back on your heels, not quite believing what you've just heard, he tries to press the advantage.
It's just that we've had long enough, and there's enough media coverage, that his gas lighting weirdness won't work. For enough of us, Trump's gas lit bizarro reality is clearly not real. And we can all look to each other for validation of that fact.
Imagine what it was like growing up with him as a father, though.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:02 PM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:42 PM on August 13 [1 favorite −] Favorite added! [!]
I think, rather, that to what ends you use the tool of language says quite a bit about who you are and how you view the world. And I think this partially explains so many people's failure to understand Trump's appeal for so long. If you've always believed that a shared reality, or the desire to share a reality, is the premise and point of communication, encountering a deluded and deluding narcissist like Trump for the first time is utterly bewildering. And while you're knocked back on your heels, not quite believing what you've just heard, he tries to press the advantage.
It's just that we've had long enough, and there's enough media coverage, that his gas lighting weirdness won't work. For enough of us, Trump's gas lit bizarro reality is clearly not real. And we can all look to each other for validation of that fact.
Imagine what it was like growing up with him as a father, though.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:02 PM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
What are Trump's fees?
So true. Too, have you ever noticed that even without a mirror, you can always see the end of your own nose right there?
I can see implicit racial bias right there.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:03 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
So true. Too, have you ever noticed that even without a mirror, you can always see the end of your own nose right there?
I can see implicit racial bias right there.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:03 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
The Third Capitalist Party: The Libertarian Party is trying to position itself as an alternative to both Clinton and Trump. But there’s nothing progressive about it.
posted by homunculus at 4:05 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 4:05 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
The University of Houston paid $135,000 to get Matthew McConaughey as a commencement speaker. I can't think of a compelling reason why the University of Houston would be trying to curry favor with Matthew McConaughey.
Because time is a flat circle. Alright alright alright.
posted by wabbittwax at 4:08 PM on August 13, 2016 [24 favorites]
Because time is a flat circle. Alright alright alright.
posted by wabbittwax at 4:08 PM on August 13, 2016 [24 favorites]
> I think, rather, that to what ends you use the tool of language says quite a bit about who you are and how you view the world. If you've always believed that a shared reality, or the desire to share a reality, is the premise and point of communication, encountering a deluded and deluding narcissist like Trump for the first time is utterly bewildering. And while you're knocked back on your heels, not quite believing what you've just heard, he tries to press the advantage.
Well but also it's important not to pretend that a desire to accurately describe a shared reality is what drives language-users on the whole, or that it's even a significant aspect of the process of communication. That way lies madness — or rather, that way lies a feckless Holden Caulfieldism, leaving you with no meaning to express outside obnoxious complaints about how everyone else is a phony bullshitter while at the same time causing you to lose track of the (invariably negative) effects of your whining.
Even scientific research is part of the cut-and-thrust of argumentation rather than an accurate description of reality. This isn't to say — like the half-brights in the Bush administration thought — that reality can be wholly controlled by language. Instead, language is itself a part of reality; if it becomes too badly harmonized with the rest of reality, it results in stupid behavior on the part of the language-user and language-believer.
All of this sounds hopelessly pomo, I know — but I assure you, all competent PR people, all competent politicians, all competent computer programmers, all competent executives, all competent teachers, all competent carpenters and all competent academics design their statements based on the effect of those statements in their context rather than the abstract meaning or truth-value of those statements without regard to context. Words aren't truth. Words are performances.
And Trump is performing quite badly.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:14 PM on August 13, 2016 [18 favorites]
Well but also it's important not to pretend that a desire to accurately describe a shared reality is what drives language-users on the whole, or that it's even a significant aspect of the process of communication. That way lies madness — or rather, that way lies a feckless Holden Caulfieldism, leaving you with no meaning to express outside obnoxious complaints about how everyone else is a phony bullshitter while at the same time causing you to lose track of the (invariably negative) effects of your whining.
Even scientific research is part of the cut-and-thrust of argumentation rather than an accurate description of reality. This isn't to say — like the half-brights in the Bush administration thought — that reality can be wholly controlled by language. Instead, language is itself a part of reality; if it becomes too badly harmonized with the rest of reality, it results in stupid behavior on the part of the language-user and language-believer.
All of this sounds hopelessly pomo, I know — but I assure you, all competent PR people, all competent politicians, all competent computer programmers, all competent executives, all competent teachers, all competent carpenters and all competent academics design their statements based on the effect of those statements in their context rather than the abstract meaning or truth-value of those statements without regard to context. Words aren't truth. Words are performances.
And Trump is performing quite badly.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:14 PM on August 13, 2016 [18 favorites]
uhh, do you really think investment banks are giving people half a million dollars to talk for half an hour because they're interested in the subject of their speeches
No they pay Hillary $200,000 because they wanted to draw an audience of rich, successful potential clients who will come to the Goldman Sacs women's leadership institute for a big headliner, some decent session speakers and a pitch for Goldman's services.
The quid pro-quo between speaker and organizer is we pay you and the audience shows up. You, the speaker, will fill the allotted time, and not go over or go short. Preferably you will be engaging for the audience and adapt your usual speech to the topic of the event. Before or afterwards you might be asked to take a couple of photos with company execs and premier clients and maybe go to dinner with a couple VIPs if that's in the contract.
Booking an in demand speaker like Clinton would be a stupid way to try to bribe that speaker. She showed up and did the job she was paid her to do. She owes them nothing. She was there to give the event prestige and draw the audience; she did that. She got paid a market rate for the service.
posted by humanfont at 4:18 PM on August 13, 2016 [89 favorites]
No they pay Hillary $200,000 because they wanted to draw an audience of rich, successful potential clients who will come to the Goldman Sacs women's leadership institute for a big headliner, some decent session speakers and a pitch for Goldman's services.
The quid pro-quo between speaker and organizer is we pay you and the audience shows up. You, the speaker, will fill the allotted time, and not go over or go short. Preferably you will be engaging for the audience and adapt your usual speech to the topic of the event. Before or afterwards you might be asked to take a couple of photos with company execs and premier clients and maybe go to dinner with a couple VIPs if that's in the contract.
Booking an in demand speaker like Clinton would be a stupid way to try to bribe that speaker. She showed up and did the job she was paid her to do. She owes them nothing. She was there to give the event prestige and draw the audience; she did that. She got paid a market rate for the service.
posted by humanfont at 4:18 PM on August 13, 2016 [89 favorites]
All competent salesmen too. That's what this guy is. And he can't close.
posted by spitbull at 4:20 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by spitbull at 4:20 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
yeah, that's the thing that's going to cause Trump to break from reality altogether. He's managed to worm himself into one of the few social contexts where the force of his inherited wealth can't prop up his shitty salesmanship, and since "a+ #1 sharp salesman 4ever" is central to his idea of himself, spending too much time in those contexts can destroy him.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:23 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:23 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
I actually doubt Trump is even under audit. He refuses to produce a letter from the IRS informing him of the audit which should be trivial. All he has shown is a letter from his law firm stating that a review of his tax returns from 2009 onward is underway... but as far as I'm concerned that could simply refer to an internal review by his own people.
posted by Justinian at 4:29 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:29 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
This election will be like Alec Baldwin's speech from Glengarry Glen Ross, in painful slow motion, for Donald Trump.
"You call yourself a salesman you sonofabitch?"
"...these are the Electoral College Votes. And to you, they're gold. And you don't get them. Why? Because giving them to you is just throwing them away. They're for closers."
"... Yeah I ran for President once. It's a tough racket."
posted by wabbittwax at 4:30 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
"You call yourself a salesman you sonofabitch?"
"...these are the Electoral College Votes. And to you, they're gold. And you don't get them. Why? Because giving them to you is just throwing them away. They're for closers."
"... Yeah I ran for President once. It's a tough racket."
posted by wabbittwax at 4:30 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
"You know what it takes to be President? It takes brass balls to be President."
posted by wabbittwax at 4:32 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by wabbittwax at 4:32 PM on August 13, 2016
Mike Pence plans to release tax returns before election
Excerpt:
"Donald Trump's running mate, Mike Pence, said Saturday he plans to release his tax returns before Election Day, even as the GOP nominee has continued to resist calls to release his own tax returns.
"When my tax returns are released, it's going to be a quick read," Pence said Saturday in an interview on WABC Radio, adding that he is also in the process of completing his financial disclosure forms as required under federal law.
Pence spokesman Marc Lotter confirmed to CNN on Saturday that Pence plans to release his tax returns before Election Day.
"He said in that interview that it would happen before the election," Lotter said when asked for a timeline on the release of Pence's tax returns."
posted by cashman at 4:33 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Excerpt:
"Donald Trump's running mate, Mike Pence, said Saturday he plans to release his tax returns before Election Day, even as the GOP nominee has continued to resist calls to release his own tax returns.
"When my tax returns are released, it's going to be a quick read," Pence said Saturday in an interview on WABC Radio, adding that he is also in the process of completing his financial disclosure forms as required under federal law.
Pence spokesman Marc Lotter confirmed to CNN on Saturday that Pence plans to release his tax returns before Election Day.
"He said in that interview that it would happen before the election," Lotter said when asked for a timeline on the release of Pence's tax returns."
posted by cashman at 4:33 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
I haven't seen much about yesterday's meeting between the RNC and the Trump campaign. Anyone know any reporting about that?
posted by overglow at 4:34 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by overglow at 4:34 PM on August 13, 2016
Evidently Mr Pence has already got a set of brass balls...
posted by wabbittwax at 4:34 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by wabbittwax at 4:34 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Mr. Trump, control your VP. He’s making you look more like a liar.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:36 PM on August 13, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 4:36 PM on August 13, 2016 [11 favorites]
So you know what Trimp is going to say at this CT rally, right? Or eventually.
"The Trump campaign will release tax returns before the election, so people can stop talking about that one. That's done."
And then his ridiculous surrrogates will go on tv saying "People asked for tax returns and the campaign has agreed to release them before the election." The follow-up will of course be but will Trimp's tax returns be released? And his spokespeople will blankly stare and say "the returns will be out before the end of the election, and that's what people were asking about, and that's what will be done".
posted by cashman at 4:36 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
"The Trump campaign will release tax returns before the election, so people can stop talking about that one. That's done."
And then his ridiculous surrrogates will go on tv saying "People asked for tax returns and the campaign has agreed to release them before the election." The follow-up will of course be but will Trimp's tax returns be released? And his spokespeople will blankly stare and say "the returns will be out before the end of the election, and that's what people were asking about, and that's what will be done".
posted by cashman at 4:36 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
All he has shown is a letter from his law firm stating that a review of his tax returns from 2009 onward is underway... but as far as I'm concerned that could simply refer to an internal review by his own people.
This is the tax professionals version of the note from his doctor that he's the most healthy man to ever run for president. He obviously only likes to hire suck ups and yes men.
posted by readery at 4:37 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
This is the tax professionals version of the note from his doctor that he's the most healthy man to ever run for president. He obviously only likes to hire suck ups and yes men.
posted by readery at 4:37 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
Getting to the end of these election threads is like getting to the end of Inifinite Jest, where Don Gately wakes up on the beach and the tide is going out
Thanks. I was gonna read that this weekend.
posted by orange ball at 4:40 PM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
Thanks. I was gonna read that this weekend.
posted by orange ball at 4:40 PM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
> The quid pro-quo between speaker and organizer is we pay you and the audience shows up. You, the speaker, will fill the allotted time, and not go over or go short. Preferably you will be engaging for the audience and adapt your usual speech to the topic of the event. Before or afterwards you might be asked to take a couple of photos with company execs and premier clients and maybe go to dinner with a couple VIPs if that's in the contract.
To be fair, this sets up a sort of second-order constraint on behavior; if one is a public figure, and if one wishes to get a lucrative invitation to speak to Goldman Sachs or whoever — not out of any deep love for Goldman Sachs or their preferred policies, but just out of the desire to get that money out of Goldman Sachs and then use it for good — one will hesitate to commit public acts that might cost one's chance at future Goldman Sachs gigs.
The constraint that the paid speaker system imposes is less about specific quid-pro-quos, and more about a soft suasion that limits the field of statements and acts that are admissible in public among people who wish to remain influential in public.
If, say, Critical Resistance, rather than Goldman Sachs, had multi-hundred-thousand dollar speaking gigs to pass out left and right, public discourse on the whole would be shifted by that fact — prison abolition would be a common topic of conversation among members of the elite, because giving speeches to prison abolitionists would be a way to fund their other causes.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:41 PM on August 13, 2016 [15 favorites]
To be fair, this sets up a sort of second-order constraint on behavior; if one is a public figure, and if one wishes to get a lucrative invitation to speak to Goldman Sachs or whoever — not out of any deep love for Goldman Sachs or their preferred policies, but just out of the desire to get that money out of Goldman Sachs and then use it for good — one will hesitate to commit public acts that might cost one's chance at future Goldman Sachs gigs.
The constraint that the paid speaker system imposes is less about specific quid-pro-quos, and more about a soft suasion that limits the field of statements and acts that are admissible in public among people who wish to remain influential in public.
If, say, Critical Resistance, rather than Goldman Sachs, had multi-hundred-thousand dollar speaking gigs to pass out left and right, public discourse on the whole would be shifted by that fact — prison abolition would be a common topic of conversation among members of the elite, because giving speeches to prison abolitionists would be a way to fund their other causes.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:41 PM on August 13, 2016 [15 favorites]
>: "Short of pulling the financing on Trump or Priebus resigning — which are both measures we favor — what could the RNC and top Republicans do at this point? They shouldn’t beg Trump to get on message or “stick to the script.” That’s absurd, an impossibility. Trump cannot distinguish between what is sane-sounding and what is not; he won’t stay off TV. "
I feel like around the time of the NATO statements he crossed a line from being outrageous to "meddling with the primal forces of nature" and I realized that Trump is the alt-right Howard Beale. I'm not sure who the Arthur Jensen is, but it's definitely not Ryan or Priebus.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:46 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
I feel like around the time of the NATO statements he crossed a line from being outrageous to "meddling with the primal forces of nature" and I realized that Trump is the alt-right Howard Beale. I'm not sure who the Arthur Jensen is, but it's definitely not Ryan or Priebus.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:46 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
>So remember how Trump yelled at that protestor in Erie about how his mother would be voting for Trump?
She isn't.
That's great. Not only is she not voting for him, she's full on anti-Trimp.
She isn't.
That's great. Not only is she not voting for him, she's full on anti-Trimp.
"No, I would never vote for Trump. We would no longer have a democracy. I think his mentors are dictators; he seems to admire them. That scares me. The way he judges women, the derogatory comments. Then there’s his racism. He’s probably a white supremacist. There’s so many reasons I’m scared. I couldn’t believe there were people going that actually supported that man. It boggles my mind but that’s the reality. It’s scary to think he could possibly be elected."posted by cashman at 4:49 PM on August 13, 2016 [33 favorites]
> (What Bill learned was to distance himself from his Liberal Wife, let her take the blame, and then turn politically rightward... I don't recall her visible at all with his terrible Crime and Welfare initiatives)
ah I suppose you're one of the lucky people whose facebook feeds isn't full of "superpredators!" memes.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:58 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
ah I suppose you're one of the lucky people whose facebook feeds isn't full of "superpredators!" memes.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:58 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Related to my other David Cay Johnston link: Johnston at The Daily Beast: “Is a Crook Hiding in Donald Trump’s Taxes?”
posted by Going To Maine at 4:58 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Going To Maine at 4:58 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
What I love is that said mother was watching the speech, but did not find out that Trump was actually talking about her until later.
posted by zachlipton at 4:59 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:59 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
"...these are the Electoral College Votes. And to you, they're gold. And you don't get them. Why? Because giving them to you is just throwing them away. They're for closersClintons."
FTFY. Remember, Donald, ABC.
Always. Be. Clinton.
posted by The Bellman at 4:59 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
FTFY. Remember, Donald, ABC.
Always. Be. Clinton.
posted by The Bellman at 4:59 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
Evidently people are passing out left and right at the Trump rally in CT right now.
Fairfield paramedics keep coming back inside with empty stretchers to fetch more people overcome by the heat inside this Trump rally.
posted by acidic at 5:00 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Fairfield paramedics keep coming back inside with empty stretchers to fetch more people overcome by the heat inside this Trump rally.
posted by acidic at 5:00 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
For a while there I was worried about Trimp latching on to the reluctant male white hero narrative, and riding that to victory. With him flagging in the polls and talk of a blowout, it was setting him up pretty nicely. But his whole stee is that he's the favorite, everybody loves him and he is the winner unless his opponents cheat. He continues to position himself as this big powerful thing who can fix everything himself with minimal effort and everything will be easy.
And hopefully the structural challenges that would await anyone who stepped up should he quit the race, would prevent that person (probably Ryan, right) from successfully walking into that storyline. So hopefully we're in good shape overall. But I still think things are going to be rough going forward.
posted by cashman at 5:01 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
And hopefully the structural challenges that would await anyone who stepped up should he quit the race, would prevent that person (probably Ryan, right) from successfully walking into that storyline. So hopefully we're in good shape overall. But I still think things are going to be rough going forward.
posted by cashman at 5:01 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Evidently people are passing out left and right at the Trump rally in CT right now.
It's 84 degrees with 77% humidity. He's half an hour late. This is not a surprise.
posted by Talez at 5:03 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's 84 degrees with 77% humidity. He's half an hour late. This is not a surprise.
posted by Talez at 5:03 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
If the weather in CT is even half as bad as it is here right now, they'd better start passing water bottles out and not stop until the thing is over. It's brutal.
Incidentally, at the Hillary rally I was at a couple weeks ago, it was similarly just awful weather to be standing around for hours in line in. When we got inside they had big coolers of cold drinking water and those of us in overflow who couldn't access them due to cordons were handed a steady stream of cups of water by both campaign staff and security personnel. It was nice.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:07 PM on August 13, 2016 [30 favorites]
Incidentally, at the Hillary rally I was at a couple weeks ago, it was similarly just awful weather to be standing around for hours in line in. When we got inside they had big coolers of cold drinking water and those of us in overflow who couldn't access them due to cordons were handed a steady stream of cups of water by both campaign staff and security personnel. It was nice.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:07 PM on August 13, 2016 [30 favorites]
Andrew Bacevich: Pseudo-Election 2016: The Decay of American Politics. An Ode to Ike and Adlai
Related: Donald Trump, Celebrity Politician: Daniel Boorstin’s 1961 book about ‘pseudo-events’ helps explain the New Yorker’s rise.
How the Media Enabled Donald Trump by Destroying Politics First: The mainstream media is to blame for Donald Trump’s rise, but not for the reasons most people think.
posted by homunculus at 5:09 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
Related: Donald Trump, Celebrity Politician: Daniel Boorstin’s 1961 book about ‘pseudo-events’ helps explain the New Yorker’s rise.
How the Media Enabled Donald Trump by Destroying Politics First: The mainstream media is to blame for Donald Trump’s rise, but not for the reasons most people think.
posted by homunculus at 5:09 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
Press are "worst human beings in the world" *boooooooo*
posted by Talez at 5:09 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Talez at 5:09 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
The heat in New England is no joke today. The local grocery gives out cold water at the door. Much of my late night commenting here is explained by the fact that I can only stand to exist in front of the fan in my place, and commenting is one of the few entertainments available in front of it.
Soren, I'm glad to hear that. I can't imagine free water at a Republican rally, much less a Trump one.
posted by Countess Elena at 5:10 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
Soren, I'm glad to hear that. I can't imagine free water at a Republican rally, much less a Trump one.
posted by Countess Elena at 5:10 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
When we got inside they had big coolers of cold drinking water and those of us in overflow who couldn't access them due to cordons were handed a steady stream of cups of water by both campaign staff and security personnel.
Yes, it's amazing how wonderful ordinary decency and simple competence can seem when you've been exposed to their utter and prolonged absence.
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:11 PM on August 13, 2016 [26 favorites]
Yes, it's amazing how wonderful ordinary decency and simple competence can seem when you've been exposed to their utter and prolonged absence.
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:11 PM on August 13, 2016 [26 favorites]
I can't imagine free water at a Republican rally, much less a Trump one.
An enterprising Democrat might stand in front of such a rally, handing out water and reminding people who has their best interest at heart.
posted by Mooski at 5:12 PM on August 13, 2016 [22 favorites]
An enterprising Democrat might stand in front of such a rally, handing out water and reminding people who has their best interest at heart.
posted by Mooski at 5:12 PM on August 13, 2016 [22 favorites]
> An enterprising Democrat might stand in front of such a rally, handing out water and reminding people who has their best interest at heart.
posted by Mooski at 5:12 PM on August 13 [+] [!]
Claim to be a Libertarian and gouge the fuckers as hard as you possibly can.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:15 PM on August 13, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by Mooski at 5:12 PM on August 13 [+] [!]
Claim to be a Libertarian and gouge the fuckers as hard as you possibly can.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:15 PM on August 13, 2016 [18 favorites]
Yes, it's amazing how wonderful ordinary decency and simple competence can seem when you've been exposed to their utter and prolonged absence.
I'm writing this from Migration Fest, a DIY metal festival in Olympia WA, where it's in the low 90s and there are 1,000 crusty metal heads in an un-air-conditioned theater. Solution? Free water bottles for everyone. As much as you can take. They're practically forcing us to drink water. If only every event were so organized.
TL;DR: Metal >>> Republicans
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 5:15 PM on August 13, 2016 [63 favorites]
I'm writing this from Migration Fest, a DIY metal festival in Olympia WA, where it's in the low 90s and there are 1,000 crusty metal heads in an un-air-conditioned theater. Solution? Free water bottles for everyone. As much as you can take. They're practically forcing us to drink water. If only every event were so organized.
TL;DR: Metal >>> Republicans
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 5:15 PM on August 13, 2016 [63 favorites]
An enterprising Democrat might stand in front of such a rally, handing out water and reminding people who has their best interest at heart.
Heed not the rabble who scream "build a wall," they have not your interests at heart.
posted by zachlipton at 5:16 PM on August 13, 2016 [15 favorites]
Heed not the rabble who scream "build a wall," they have not your interests at heart.
posted by zachlipton at 5:16 PM on August 13, 2016 [15 favorites]
An enterprising Democrat might stand in front of such a rally, handing out water and reminding people who has their best interest at heart.
Offer free Hillary-branded water and watch them struggle with the offer.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:16 PM on August 13, 2016 [37 favorites]
Offer free Hillary-branded water and watch them struggle with the offer.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:16 PM on August 13, 2016 [37 favorites]
It's like trump was melting on stage.
You win this one, Time.
posted by Yowser at 5:17 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
You win this one, Time.
posted by Yowser at 5:17 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
Surprised he dropped the "mom's voting Trump" line.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:18 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:18 PM on August 13, 2016
DJT: "I might lie to you like Hillary does but I would never lie to Giacomo." WTF.
posted by mochapickle at 5:19 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by mochapickle at 5:19 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
I mean, for all I know they are handing out water at the Trump event. They absolutely should be, but I don't know one way or the other if they actually are. It's been so hot here, my chickens stopped laying. It's no joke.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:20 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:20 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
"We're gonna build a wall" is gonna be this clown's only legacy.
posted by Yowser at 5:21 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by Yowser at 5:21 PM on August 13, 2016
Regarding election observers, both parties recruit them, they are totally legal. If you see them engaging in any kind of intimidation whatsoever, call your favorite among a) your local elections authority; b) your preferred county party HQ; or c) the police. All three will be prepared to respond to voter intimidation at the polls.
I volunteer as an emergency lawyer for my local Democratic party every election, which means that when the Democratic poll watchers see a problem, or the county party gets a call, they have a list of lawyers on speed dial that they can physically dispatch to the polling location. Once there, wearing my good suit and pearls and carrying my trusty handbook, I'm responsible for preserving evidence, bickering with the election officials on your behalf, and staring down any threatening jackasses while calling the cops. (Probably 90% of this is calling back in to the county HQ where they have an actual elections lawyer standing next to a phone who coaches the on-site lawyer what to do and say and makes a record of what's happening.) There is a three-hour training and a manual of common situations.
I have actually never been "activated" -- I just spend election day on my couch with the phone right next to me just in case -- because our local elections are quite well-run and the election officials are hella serious about electioneering at the polls and poll workers are well-trained for more common problems. But it's an interesting training where you learned the latest attempts at voter intimidation, vote fraud, etc. My brother also does this sort of volunteering (in a much less-well-run county), and one year he was sent to a polling location where a candidate was electioneering IN the polling location and also threatening people, and my brother got to have him hauled off by the cops.
Anyway if Trump has brownshirts, there is an infrastructure just WAITING to help you, sitting on the couch in its good suit and pearls eating cheetos just DYING for a call. I can't tell you how badly I'd love to go get some poll intimidators thrown in jail! I can't tell you how much I'd love to tell the story of when a 6-foot dude with a gun tried to threaten tiny little female me when I told him to stop threatening voters. It'd be great! Yes, yes, I'm just as happy for democracy that this has never happened locally, blah blah blah, but think of the GREAT STORIES if it did. So if you run into anything like this, google your local party's number and call immediately. They have couch lawyers just salivating over the chance to go get electioneers arrested.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [182 favorites]
I volunteer as an emergency lawyer for my local Democratic party every election, which means that when the Democratic poll watchers see a problem, or the county party gets a call, they have a list of lawyers on speed dial that they can physically dispatch to the polling location. Once there, wearing my good suit and pearls and carrying my trusty handbook, I'm responsible for preserving evidence, bickering with the election officials on your behalf, and staring down any threatening jackasses while calling the cops. (Probably 90% of this is calling back in to the county HQ where they have an actual elections lawyer standing next to a phone who coaches the on-site lawyer what to do and say and makes a record of what's happening.) There is a three-hour training and a manual of common situations.
I have actually never been "activated" -- I just spend election day on my couch with the phone right next to me just in case -- because our local elections are quite well-run and the election officials are hella serious about electioneering at the polls and poll workers are well-trained for more common problems. But it's an interesting training where you learned the latest attempts at voter intimidation, vote fraud, etc. My brother also does this sort of volunteering (in a much less-well-run county), and one year he was sent to a polling location where a candidate was electioneering IN the polling location and also threatening people, and my brother got to have him hauled off by the cops.
Anyway if Trump has brownshirts, there is an infrastructure just WAITING to help you, sitting on the couch in its good suit and pearls eating cheetos just DYING for a call. I can't tell you how badly I'd love to go get some poll intimidators thrown in jail! I can't tell you how much I'd love to tell the story of when a 6-foot dude with a gun tried to threaten tiny little female me when I told him to stop threatening voters. It'd be great! Yes, yes, I'm just as happy for democracy that this has never happened locally, blah blah blah, but think of the GREAT STORIES if it did. So if you run into anything like this, google your local party's number and call immediately. They have couch lawyers just salivating over the chance to go get electioneers arrested.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [182 favorites]
All he has shown is a letter from his law firm stating that a review of his tax returns from 2009 onward is underway
That is quite revealing. Normally the IRS is permitted to audit only the last three years of tax returns. They can go back farther only if substantial errors or fraud is uncovered in the most recent three years.
If, as Trump's lawyer says, they are auditing back to 2009, that means the IRS found big problems in his returns.
Still, there is no legal reason that Trump can't release his returns. They are legal documents filed with the IRS. The IRS doesn't care who Trump shows them to and cannot prevent him from showing them to anybody.
posted by JackFlash at 5:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [25 favorites]
That is quite revealing. Normally the IRS is permitted to audit only the last three years of tax returns. They can go back farther only if substantial errors or fraud is uncovered in the most recent three years.
If, as Trump's lawyer says, they are auditing back to 2009, that means the IRS found big problems in his returns.
Still, there is no legal reason that Trump can't release his returns. They are legal documents filed with the IRS. The IRS doesn't care who Trump shows them to and cannot prevent him from showing them to anybody.
posted by JackFlash at 5:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [25 favorites]
"I might lie to you like Hillary does..."
Really, Donald?
posted by Devonian at 5:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
Really, Donald?
posted by Devonian at 5:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
Okay: those of you who are raising Clinton's speaking fees as a thread. What is your point? What, at this stage, do you want the rest of us to do about it?
* Are you saying that you wish someone other than Hillary Clinton had won the Democratic nomination? Because they didn't. She did. And I wish it had been Bernie too, but it wasn't and we can't hold a do-over of the primaries.
* Are you saying that we should vote for Trump instead of Clinton? Then have the balls to say that.
* Are you saying we should vote for a third party? Then say that, and go with God.
* Are you saying that Clinton should change her speaking fees? Then take it up with the Clinton Foundation.
* Are you saying that this is something we should beware of if she gets into office? Then just say that, and when she gets into office, put Elizabeth Warren's number and Bernie Sanders' number nto your phone on speed-dial and call them to be our watchdogs in Congress.
* Are you just trying to Raise Awareness? If that's all you're doing, you're not telling anyone anything new; but the way to stop corrupt politicians is to reach out to the ones you trust (see: Warren and Sanders above).
* Are you opposed to the idea of paying people to speak no matter who they are? Then start a separate discussion about that.
Because right now, you're coming across as yet another one of the niggly little whisperers that is contributing to people thinking Hillary is corrupt, but a bankrupt racist isn't. And I will be fucked if the public perception of reality is going to get any more warped than it is already. Say what you're getting at, plainly, at long last.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [146 favorites]
* Are you saying that you wish someone other than Hillary Clinton had won the Democratic nomination? Because they didn't. She did. And I wish it had been Bernie too, but it wasn't and we can't hold a do-over of the primaries.
* Are you saying that we should vote for Trump instead of Clinton? Then have the balls to say that.
* Are you saying we should vote for a third party? Then say that, and go with God.
* Are you saying that Clinton should change her speaking fees? Then take it up with the Clinton Foundation.
* Are you saying that this is something we should beware of if she gets into office? Then just say that, and when she gets into office, put Elizabeth Warren's number and Bernie Sanders' number nto your phone on speed-dial and call them to be our watchdogs in Congress.
* Are you just trying to Raise Awareness? If that's all you're doing, you're not telling anyone anything new; but the way to stop corrupt politicians is to reach out to the ones you trust (see: Warren and Sanders above).
* Are you opposed to the idea of paying people to speak no matter who they are? Then start a separate discussion about that.
Because right now, you're coming across as yet another one of the niggly little whisperers that is contributing to people thinking Hillary is corrupt, but a bankrupt racist isn't. And I will be fucked if the public perception of reality is going to get any more warped than it is already. Say what you're getting at, plainly, at long last.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [146 favorites]
cameras are pretzeling again!
posted by Don Pepino at 5:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Don Pepino at 5:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Uh...Giacomo?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:23 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:23 PM on August 13, 2016
basically all the proof you need that trump's staff and the RNC can't control him is that they are incapable of stopping him from campaigning in goddamn new england
posted by murphy slaw at 5:23 PM on August 13, 2016 [37 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 5:23 PM on August 13, 2016 [37 favorites]
For the record I think that this election season is less like Infinite Jest and more like Gravity's Rainbow.
no, it's more like tristram shandy
posted by pyramid termite at 5:25 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
no, it's more like tristram shandy
posted by pyramid termite at 5:25 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
Giacomo is a kid in a suit Trump brought up in the beginning with his family. I'm not sure of his significance. He was encouraged to speak up and he said: "Vote Trump and Make America Great Again!"
posted by mochapickle at 5:25 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by mochapickle at 5:25 PM on August 13, 2016
Ah! That's why he's in CT. The gov. came out against him and he wants to hit back.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:25 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:25 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
Ah, significance: Giacomo is a young athlete who has cancer.
posted by mochapickle at 5:28 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by mochapickle at 5:28 PM on August 13, 2016
Giacomo was a Make a Wish (or some similar group, not sure...) kid who wanted to meet Trump. So Trump brought him out on stage, and now he keeps referring to him. I think it's kind of creepy and bully-ish how he's so obviously using this kid, but maybe it plays as genuine if you're his base.
posted by Weeping_angel at 5:28 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by Weeping_angel at 5:28 PM on August 13, 2016
His Secret Servic told him Hillary is crazy?!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:29 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:29 PM on August 13, 2016
Katie Glueck at Politico: “Trump’s run at blue Connecticut”
posted by Going To Maine at 5:29 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Going To Maine at 5:29 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Again with the Founder of ISIS.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:31 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:31 PM on August 13, 2016
And the baby again!
posted by mochapickle at 5:32 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by mochapickle at 5:32 PM on August 13, 2016
I guess Connecticut is one of the Secret States, then?
Good luck with that.
posted by kyrademon at 5:33 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Good luck with that.
posted by kyrademon at 5:33 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
He sounds... angrier today? Not sure how that's even possible.
posted by mochapickle at 5:33 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by mochapickle at 5:33 PM on August 13, 2016
every quote from a republican in that politico article could be rephrased as "ARRRRGH WHAT IS HE DOING AND WHY CAN'T WE STOP HIM"
posted by murphy slaw at 5:36 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 5:36 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
If he'd given this speech in a traditional battleground state would anyone be paying attention? There is a certain method in the madness in terms of free media coverage.
posted by humanfont at 5:39 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 5:39 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
His Secret Servic told him Hillary is crazy?!
He's referring to a book, "Crisis in Character", that is nothing more than a fantasy hit piece. Here's the takedown about its claims.
posted by peeedro at 5:39 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
He's referring to a book, "Crisis in Character", that is nothing more than a fantasy hit piece. Here's the takedown about its claims.
posted by peeedro at 5:39 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
Still, his detail can't be pleased with that.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:41 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:41 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
He keeps going on about CNN turning off the camera. Anyone watching CNN?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:43 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:43 PM on August 13, 2016
If he’d given this speech in a traditional battleground state would anyone be paying attention? There is a certain method in the madness in terms of free media coverage.
Why wouldn’t they? People watch Trump because it’s a freak show, not because of the venue.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:44 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Why wouldn’t they? People watch Trump because it’s a freak show, not because of the venue.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:44 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
He keeps going on about CNN turning off the camera. Anyone watching CNN?
CNN & MSNBC show crime programs (think Dateline) on Saturday evenings. But I've been watching CNN previously as he claimed they turned the camera off....and they obviously hadn't. It's a shtick, nothing more.
posted by cashman at 5:46 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
CNN & MSNBC show crime programs (think Dateline) on Saturday evenings. But I've been watching CNN previously as he claimed they turned the camera off....and they obviously hadn't. It's a shtick, nothing more.
posted by cashman at 5:46 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Plugging his hotel on Penn. Ave. again.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:46 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:46 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Oh, you better elect me or I won't speak to you."
PROMISE?
posted by spinifex23 at 5:47 PM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
PROMISE?
posted by spinifex23 at 5:47 PM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
DJT: "Can you imagine how I will feel if I spent all of this money, all of this time, all of this energy and LOST? I will never forgive the people of Connecticut...."
posted by mochapickle at 5:47 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 5:47 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
It's a Saturday evening and Michael Phelps is set for his last competitive lap ever in a little bit. Nobody's paying attention anyway.
posted by zachlipton at 5:47 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:47 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Weirdly talking about if he loses he'll never forgive the people of CT, FL, OH.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:47 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:47 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
What really strikes me about the Clinton tax return (per Jack Flash) is its simplicity. Those investments do not at all reflect people who are money hungry. Most of us try to maximize return ... at least, leverage our money to its best use.
???
Did you miss the part where they made more money in one year than most of us will make in our entire lives? Yeah, ok, it's nice to see that there are no conflicts of interest evident beyond being waaaaay over the FDIC-insured limits on a cash account at a major Wall Street bank (I guess we'll be fine as long as we're not faced with another situation where the "too big to fail" banks need to be bailed out again...) but don't go pretending like, "aw shucks, they're just plain ol' regular folk like you and me," because that's bullshit. They don't book eight figures a year because they have to.
posted by indubitable at 5:48 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
???
Did you miss the part where they made more money in one year than most of us will make in our entire lives? Yeah, ok, it's nice to see that there are no conflicts of interest evident beyond being waaaaay over the FDIC-insured limits on a cash account at a major Wall Street bank (I guess we'll be fine as long as we're not faced with another situation where the "too big to fail" banks need to be bailed out again...) but don't go pretending like, "aw shucks, they're just plain ol' regular folk like you and me," because that's bullshit. They don't book eight figures a year because they have to.
posted by indubitable at 5:48 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Says he'll "never forgive the people" if he loses. Doesn't seem to have gone over well. Now he's saying an ousted protestor looks just like Hillary. Hope the security sees her out all right.
posted by Countess Elena at 5:48 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Countess Elena at 5:48 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Donald Trump and the Plague of Atomization in a Neoliberal Age: Isolation and frustration have made people disdain community, public values and the public good — making them perfect targets for the Republican nominee's authoritarian and oversimplified rhetoric.
posted by homunculus at 5:49 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 5:49 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
DJT: "Can you imagine how I will feel if I spent all of this money, all of this time, all of this energy and LOST? I will never forgive the people of Connecticut."
I'm ok with that.
posted by Aznable at 5:49 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
I'm ok with that.
posted by Aznable at 5:49 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
Weirdly talking about if he loses he'll never forgive the people of CT, FL, OH.
He’s going to start a bunch of anti-tourism super PACs.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:49 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
He’s going to start a bunch of anti-tourism super PACs.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:49 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
Wow, going hard after Gov. Dannel Molloy. Coming to CT is nothing more than vendetta.
posted by mochapickle at 5:51 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 5:51 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
I will never forgive the people of Connecticut."
So he's running against the media, Obama, and the Nutmeg state. Got it.
posted by vrakatar at 5:51 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
So he's running against the media, Obama, and the Nutmeg state. Got it.
posted by vrakatar at 5:51 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
About General Electric "You wouldn't leave if Trump were governor"
Wowwwww
posted by Yowser at 5:51 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
Wowwwww
posted by Yowser at 5:51 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
Back to bashing the Governor, the point of this outing up the street from NYC.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:51 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:51 PM on August 13, 2016
He’s going to start a bunch of anti-tourism super PACs.
To stop the many many tourists who flock to Connecticut each year? How would they know the difference?
And unless he teams up with the gators in the Seven Seas Lagoon, he's not going to keep people from visiting Florida either.
posted by zachlipton at 5:52 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
To stop the many many tourists who flock to Connecticut each year? How would they know the difference?
And unless he teams up with the gators in the Seven Seas Lagoon, he's not going to keep people from visiting Florida either.
posted by zachlipton at 5:52 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
DJT: Obamacare is the reason part-time workers are not working full time.
posted by mochapickle at 5:53 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by mochapickle at 5:53 PM on August 13, 2016
No seriously when the candidate is threatening HIS OWN ALLEGED BASE voters...I just...is anyone over at Donnie HQ even trying? Stump speech 101, "so great to be here in the state of stateachussettes with all these great folks who live in locationburg!" Repeat in other states.
posted by vrakatar at 5:55 PM on August 13, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 5:55 PM on August 13, 2016 [22 favorites]
DJT: Fairfield CT is 105 degrees right now! (It's 85.)
posted by mochapickle at 5:55 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 5:55 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Back to bashing the Governor, the point of this outing up the street from NYC.
WTF? He's not due for re-election this year. (If he was he'd be playing Trump's speech, admittedly).
posted by Francis at 5:56 PM on August 13, 2016
WTF? He's not due for re-election this year. (If he was he'd be playing Trump's speech, admittedly).
posted by Francis at 5:56 PM on August 13, 2016
Trump now spinning his convention speech as "optimistic."
posted by Spathe Cadet at 5:58 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by Spathe Cadet at 5:58 PM on August 13, 2016
Did he call update New York a "wasteland"? Isn't that where what few Republicans still exist in New York live? And yesterday was the bizarre, "you people don't win anymore" line. I know there's not really a plan here anyway (why is he in Connecticut again?), but I do not understand what attacking his own voters and rally attendees is supposed to accomplish.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:58 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:58 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
DJT: Fairfield CT is 105 degrees right now! (It's 85.)
He probably means the heat index
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:58 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
He probably means the heat index
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:58 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
To stop the many many tourists who flock to Connecticut each year? How would they know the difference?
There's a couple casinos that draw heavily from NYC, FWIW.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:58 PM on August 13, 2016
There's a couple casinos that draw heavily from NYC, FWIW.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:58 PM on August 13, 2016
He doesn't seem to be getting enormous reactions, although maybe that is an audio issue. I understand those can be crucial.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:00 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Countess Elena at 6:00 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Looks like they're deliberately cutting the feed."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2e8273S03E
posted by spinifex23 at 6:02 PM on August 13, 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2e8273S03E
posted by spinifex23 at 6:02 PM on August 13, 2016
I wouldn't have thought it possible before this election, but this is coming across as simultaneously ragey and boring.
Cuts away to image of flag, someone comes on to voice-over that "they're deliberately cutting the feed." Who "they" is is left to the imagination, I guess.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 6:03 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Cuts away to image of flag, someone comes on to voice-over that "they're deliberately cutting the feed." Who "they" is is left to the imagination, I guess.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 6:03 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Ah, my feeds cut out.
posted by mochapickle at 6:03 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by mochapickle at 6:03 PM on August 13, 2016
Who is this conspiracy theory nuthead running the stream? "They're cutting the feed"
posted by Yowser at 6:03 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by Yowser at 6:03 PM on August 13, 2016
Y'know, you would think that a candidate would encourage as many people as possible to watch a Presidential campaign stump speech, but I guess not.....
posted by spinifex23 at 6:04 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by spinifex23 at 6:04 PM on August 13, 2016
Chat scroll blaming Hillary for cutting the feed. As if she's sitting in some dark A/V room flicking switches and cackling in the glow of the machines.
posted by mochapickle at 6:05 PM on August 13, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 6:05 PM on August 13, 2016 [31 favorites]
indubitable, when the election is over we can come back to the Clinton's tax return, right now the rest of us are trying to prevent someone who might be the ACTUAL ANTICHRIST from getting into office
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:05 PM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:05 PM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
WTF? He's not due for re-election this year.
This was the Gov. Of CT a week ago on Hardball
He just needs to punch back. It's not strategic.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:07 PM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
This was the Gov. Of CT a week ago on Hardball
He just needs to punch back. It's not strategic.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:07 PM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
Did you miss the part where they made more money in one year than most of us will make in our entire lives?
The Elected and Cabinet-Level Appointed Officials in Washington D.C. total 450+ out of a population of 340million, nearly one in a million or the Top 0.000001%. Any who are not in the Top .1% in wealth have either taken a vow of poverty or financial incompetence. For a Former President like Bill (plus a Former High Official spouse like Hillary), $5 million is not nearly what they COULD be making (and Hillary's aspiration for the Presidency is probably one reason why). The "average" C.E.O.'s income is about 330-350 times their average employee. THAT is "more money in one year than most of us will make in our entire lives". So, to TLDR it, Big Deal.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:09 PM on August 13, 2016 [30 favorites]
The Elected and Cabinet-Level Appointed Officials in Washington D.C. total 450+ out of a population of 340million, nearly one in a million or the Top 0.000001%. Any who are not in the Top .1% in wealth have either taken a vow of poverty or financial incompetence. For a Former President like Bill (plus a Former High Official spouse like Hillary), $5 million is not nearly what they COULD be making (and Hillary's aspiration for the Presidency is probably one reason why). The "average" C.E.O.'s income is about 330-350 times their average employee. THAT is "more money in one year than most of us will make in our entire lives". So, to TLDR it, Big Deal.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:09 PM on August 13, 2016 [30 favorites]
He didn't even do his "we'll be winning so much you'll get tired of winning and beg me to stop, but I won't stop winning" bit at the end. It's almost like he doesn't care.
posted by zachlipton at 6:11 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 6:11 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
He didn't even do his "we'll be winning so much you'll get tired of winning and beg me to stop, but I won't stop winning" bit at the end. It's almost like he doesn't care.
Yes he did.
posted by Talez at 6:12 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yes he did.
posted by Talez at 6:12 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
He didn't even do his "we'll be winning so much you'll get tired of winning and beg me to stop, but I won't stop winning" bit at the end. It's almost like he doesn't care.
At this point I'm pretty sure he doesn't
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:12 PM on August 13, 2016
At this point I'm pretty sure he doesn't
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:12 PM on August 13, 2016
He needs to make it to September. A few more weeks, Trumpy! Just hold on!
posted by Justinian at 6:13 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:13 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yep, he did. He even said we would win so much that people would beg him to return them to poverty(!) because it was too much winning to handle. Oh yes.
posted by mochapickle at 6:13 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 6:13 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
Oh I must have missed it in the feed confusion. Sorry.
posted by zachlipton at 6:13 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:13 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
someone who might be the ACTUAL ANTICHRIST from getting into office
The existence of Trumpy as a Real Life Supervillian reinforces my agnostic-bordering-on-atheist beliefs. If The Devil actually existed, there would be a far more competent "Anti-Christ". Neither Hitler nor Stalin came close to pulling it off. There's a lot of evil out there but no real candidates for "Anti-Christ", and the worst think about Dirty Donnie is he distracts from potentially more dangerous threats.
He even said we would win so much that people would beg him to return them to poverty(!)
NOW I see his Endgame. Give it to us, then take it away! How perfectly Trumpist!
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:17 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
The existence of Trumpy as a Real Life Supervillian reinforces my agnostic-bordering-on-atheist beliefs. If The Devil actually existed, there would be a far more competent "Anti-Christ". Neither Hitler nor Stalin came close to pulling it off. There's a lot of evil out there but no real candidates for "Anti-Christ", and the worst think about Dirty Donnie is he distracts from potentially more dangerous threats.
He even said we would win so much that people would beg him to return them to poverty(!)
NOW I see his Endgame. Give it to us, then take it away! How perfectly Trumpist!
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:17 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Clearly his poll numbers are so low because he's tired of winning.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:20 PM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:20 PM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
He needs to make it to September. A few more weeks, Trumpy! Just hold on!
what's magic about sept 1?
posted by murphy slaw at 6:21 PM on August 13, 2016
what's magic about sept 1?
posted by murphy slaw at 6:21 PM on August 13, 2016
Starting August 29th, it starts getting too late to change the name on the ballot in states. The deadlines up to now have been party on ballot, but that switches to actual name on ballot beginning at the end of this month.
posted by chris24 at 6:23 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 6:23 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
Did you miss the part where they made more money in one year than most of us will make in our entire lives? Yeah, ok, it's nice to see that there are no conflicts of interest evident beyond being waaaaay over the FDIC-insured limits on a cash account at a major Wall Street bank (I guess we'll be fine as long as we're not faced with another situation where the "too big to fail" banks need to be bailed out again...) but don't go pretending like, "aw shucks, they're just plain ol' regular folk like you and me," because that's bullshit. They don't book eight figures a year because they have to.
Surely, after Obama leaves office he will donate all of his book profits to charity and the family will move into a modest, two-story bungalow with not even a single Lexii. Surely.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:23 PM on August 13, 2016 [18 favorites]
Surely, after Obama leaves office he will donate all of his book profits to charity and the family will move into a modest, two-story bungalow with not even a single Lexii. Surely.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:23 PM on August 13, 2016 [18 favorites]
what's magic about sept 1?
I guess Labor Day is a big marker for presidential campaigns, apparently.
posted by cashman at 6:24 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
I guess Labor Day is a big marker for presidential campaigns, apparently.
posted by cashman at 6:24 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Right, nothing in particular magical about September 1st, but every day past the end of August means more places Trump's name stays on the ballot no matter what.
posted by Justinian at 6:24 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 6:24 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
what's magic about sept 1?
it's trumpoween when the donald turns into a pumpkin and all his political advisors into mice
posted by pyramid termite at 6:26 PM on August 13, 2016 [28 favorites]
it's trumpoween when the donald turns into a pumpkin and all his political advisors into mice
posted by pyramid termite at 6:26 PM on August 13, 2016 [28 favorites]
Mice is an improvement from rats.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:26 PM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:26 PM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
what's magic about sept 1?
The Republicans will be unable to compete in 18 states with their chosen replacement.
posted by Talez at 6:27 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Republicans will be unable to compete in 18 states with their chosen replacement.
posted by Talez at 6:27 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
The closer we get to trumpoween, the oranger he gets...
posted by mochapickle at 6:27 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 6:27 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
what's magic about sept 1?
Not sure about the first per se, but I think you're not supposed to drape yourself in white supremacy after Labor Day. Traditional!
posted by uosuaq at 6:32 PM on August 13, 2016 [81 favorites]
Not sure about the first per se, but I think you're not supposed to drape yourself in white supremacy after Labor Day. Traditional!
posted by uosuaq at 6:32 PM on August 13, 2016 [81 favorites]
From the Politico link above, which is dated August 13, 2016:
“I don’t know if he can win Fairfield…whether he can win Connecticut, it’s historically a Democratic state,” said Tom Flynn, a Republican district leader in Fairfield who previously supported Jeb Bush and then John Kasich, and wants to hear more from Trump before getting behind him.
If there were any doubts as to how craven Republican party members and operatives might be in the face of this national disaster, they can be dispelled with that detail, I think.
posted by Slothrop at 6:33 PM on August 13, 2016 [18 favorites]
“I don’t know if he can win Fairfield…whether he can win Connecticut, it’s historically a Democratic state,” said Tom Flynn, a Republican district leader in Fairfield who previously supported Jeb Bush and then John Kasich, and wants to hear more from Trump before getting behind him.
If there were any doubts as to how craven Republican party members and operatives might be in the face of this national disaster, they can be dispelled with that detail, I think.
posted by Slothrop at 6:33 PM on August 13, 2016 [18 favorites]
Sure he's a racist, sexist, hateful fear-monger who is undermining the entire democratic process and inciting violence but I really need to hear more about his plans for the carried interest tax deduction before making my decision about endorsing.
posted by Justinian at 6:35 PM on August 13, 2016 [62 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:35 PM on August 13, 2016 [62 favorites]
Did you miss the part where they made more money in one year than most of us will make in our entire lives?
If you can get over the $BIG$NUM$ERZZZZ$!!1! shock, and consider the numbers that are there and what they mean:
They cannot run out and buy a $50M mansion. They are not that rich. They are not movie-star rich. They are not CEO-level rich, even.
Their investments/savings are a few years' worth of salary ... which is not that great, especially at retirement ages.
They are not involved in many of the typical money-making schemes you'd expect at that level (real estate rentals, businesses, hedge funds).
They aren't even tax sheltering with many of the common mechanisms, or exotic ones. They could pau a lot less taxes, easily. You can posit that this is for show, as they knew these returns would become public, but that's millions of dollars of show.
As covered above, they are making the easily available money, as anyone should.
So if you can get over the shock of the millions, the real story of those tax returns is what isn't there - both the sums and the extras you'd expect at those income levels.
posted by Dashy at 6:36 PM on August 13, 2016 [59 favorites]
If you can get over the $BIG$NUM$ERZZZZ$!!1! shock, and consider the numbers that are there and what they mean:
They cannot run out and buy a $50M mansion. They are not that rich. They are not movie-star rich. They are not CEO-level rich, even.
Their investments/savings are a few years' worth of salary ... which is not that great, especially at retirement ages.
They are not involved in many of the typical money-making schemes you'd expect at that level (real estate rentals, businesses, hedge funds).
They aren't even tax sheltering with many of the common mechanisms, or exotic ones. They could pau a lot less taxes, easily. You can posit that this is for show, as they knew these returns would become public, but that's millions of dollars of show.
As covered above, they are making the easily available money, as anyone should.
So if you can get over the shock of the millions, the real story of those tax returns is what isn't there - both the sums and the extras you'd expect at those income levels.
posted by Dashy at 6:36 PM on August 13, 2016 [59 favorites]
For a little election escapism: #GOT2016
Snow/Mormont all the way!
posted by zakur at 6:37 PM on August 13, 2016
Snow/Mormont all the way!
posted by zakur at 6:37 PM on August 13, 2016
uosuaq: To be safe [when going to vote], just invest in a Trump T-shirt before you go to your polling place. Think of it as a sort of...tax.
Or make your own - save money, and you can even Buy American (or buy from a thrift store that supports a good cause) and you'll also look more authentic.
posted by filthy light thief at 6:39 PM on August 13, 2016
Or make your own - save money, and you can even Buy American (or buy from a thrift store that supports a good cause) and you'll also look more authentic.
posted by filthy light thief at 6:39 PM on August 13, 2016
Surely, after Obama leaves office he will donate all of his book profits to charity and the family will move into a modest, two-story bungalow with not even a single Lexii. Surely.
His new house in DC is not modest, but it's just a rental. If you know where to find it, on the google street view of the front of the house there is a group of five cab drivers standing in the street breaking bread together on the trunk of a parked cab, it is such a perfect DC moment caught on camera.
posted by peeedro at 6:39 PM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
His new house in DC is not modest, but it's just a rental. If you know where to find it, on the google street view of the front of the house there is a group of five cab drivers standing in the street breaking bread together on the trunk of a parked cab, it is such a perfect DC moment caught on camera.
posted by peeedro at 6:39 PM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
Can Hillary Clinton End the Southern Strategy Forever? Demographic shifts mean that, for the first time in half a century, Democrats have a real chance at winning states in the South and Southwest.
posted by homunculus at 6:39 PM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 6:39 PM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
Snow/Mormont all the way!
Lady Mormont would be more useful in the (soon to be) Senate. Snow's ideas are just too out there. We need a strong woman and the Dad joke demographic.
Stark/Edd 303!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:43 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Lady Mormont would be more useful in the (soon to be) Senate. Snow's ideas are just too out there. We need a strong woman and the Dad joke demographic.
Stark/Edd 303!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:43 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
His new house in DC is not modest, but it's just a rental. If you know where to find it, on the google street view of the front of the house there is a group of five cab drivers standing in the street breaking bread together on the trunk of a parked cab, it is such a perfect DC moment caught on camera.
Here's a snap of the cab drivers on street view, not that the address is much of a secret. That is beautiful.
posted by zachlipton at 6:44 PM on August 13, 2016 [20 favorites]
Here's a snap of the cab drivers on street view, not that the address is much of a secret. That is beautiful.
posted by zachlipton at 6:44 PM on August 13, 2016 [20 favorites]
For a little election escapism: #GOT2016
The GoT Party
The GoT Party
From the Reach to the Stormlands, the Wall to the Arbor — we, the GOT, demand new choices in leadership. The candidates have called their banners. Cast your vote to pick your side in the great wars to come.posted by homunculus at 6:45 PM on August 13, 2016
"His Secret Servic told him Hillary is crazy?!"
There is a whole subgenre of Secret Service Tell-All Books, wherein you will learn the same two facts from every example: 1) LBJ had an absolutely gigantic penis; and 2) Some Secret Service agents super fucking hate the president and are willing to take money to write tell-all books about how sometimes they are sleepy and occasionally tell jerky jokes and now and then snap at people responsible for their safety.
Anyway, there are totally rogue Secret Service agents out there, retired and otherwise, just waiting for their turn to turn gossip and rumor into news stories and complain bitterly about how terrible the president is. ALSO, apparently LBJ had a very large penis and also liked to pee in a lot of non-bathroom locations which is why so many Secret Service guys got to see it.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:47 PM on August 13, 2016 [22 favorites]
There is a whole subgenre of Secret Service Tell-All Books, wherein you will learn the same two facts from every example: 1) LBJ had an absolutely gigantic penis; and 2) Some Secret Service agents super fucking hate the president and are willing to take money to write tell-all books about how sometimes they are sleepy and occasionally tell jerky jokes and now and then snap at people responsible for their safety.
Anyway, there are totally rogue Secret Service agents out there, retired and otherwise, just waiting for their turn to turn gossip and rumor into news stories and complain bitterly about how terrible the president is. ALSO, apparently LBJ had a very large penis and also liked to pee in a lot of non-bathroom locations which is why so many Secret Service guys got to see it.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:47 PM on August 13, 2016 [22 favorites]
To remind everyone just how serious this situation is: An imam and his assistant were shot and killed in broad daylight in Queens today.
posted by peacheater at 6:50 PM on August 13, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 6:50 PM on August 13, 2016 [26 favorites]
And I'm not looking to establish whether the Clintons are regular folks; I'm looking at their tax returns for evidence of all this criminal sinister corruption I keep hearing about, and whether she is a good custodian of money.
I think she has erred so far in the direction of honesty, that I could almost make the argument that she's not such a great manager of the funds she had pulled in. But I know better, and I know how wonky-smart she is.
I will give the person with those tax returns my national checkbook, absolutely.
posted by Dashy at 6:50 PM on August 13, 2016 [23 favorites]
I think she has erred so far in the direction of honesty, that I could almost make the argument that she's not such a great manager of the funds she had pulled in. But I know better, and I know how wonky-smart she is.
I will give the person with those tax returns my national checkbook, absolutely.
posted by Dashy at 6:50 PM on August 13, 2016 [23 favorites]
Surely, after Obama leaves office he will donate all of his book profits to charity and the family will move into a modest, two-story bungalow with not even a single Lexii. Surely.
I mean, I am actually frustrated that political office is so lucrative and so entangled with huge sums of money. It doesn't impact the election, because it's the case with both candidates, and clearly with Trump more so (as a bad talking point, even). But I've spent enough time at private Democratic fundraisers that I do feel kind of like there's a weird wealthy elite vibe to everything.
I'm not asking or expecting anyone to take a vow of poverty, and it's not like anything will change overnight and all the crazy financial ties will or should evaporate because they make me feel weird. It's probably hard not to do well for yourself as a high profile politician. It's just that it also feels a little weird when our politicians are making millions of dollars before and after office and we're like "what's the big deal? They're only making 10 million, they could be making a lot more."
I know some super wealthy donors, and they've said, in effect, "we shouldn't be able to have as much influence as we do, but we try to do the right thing." Having super wealthy politicians running things doesn't mean they're incapable of making things better. It just makes me feel a little less represented personally by the democracy, is all.
posted by teponaztli at 6:50 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
I mean, I am actually frustrated that political office is so lucrative and so entangled with huge sums of money. It doesn't impact the election, because it's the case with both candidates, and clearly with Trump more so (as a bad talking point, even). But I've spent enough time at private Democratic fundraisers that I do feel kind of like there's a weird wealthy elite vibe to everything.
I'm not asking or expecting anyone to take a vow of poverty, and it's not like anything will change overnight and all the crazy financial ties will or should evaporate because they make me feel weird. It's probably hard not to do well for yourself as a high profile politician. It's just that it also feels a little weird when our politicians are making millions of dollars before and after office and we're like "what's the big deal? They're only making 10 million, they could be making a lot more."
I know some super wealthy donors, and they've said, in effect, "we shouldn't be able to have as much influence as we do, but we try to do the right thing." Having super wealthy politicians running things doesn't mean they're incapable of making things better. It just makes me feel a little less represented personally by the democracy, is all.
posted by teponaztli at 6:50 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
BY BALLOT OR BLADE CHOOSE YOUR CANDIDATEEeesh. Hoping that was there before yesterday.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:51 PM on August 13, 2016
Ummm Eyebrows, where can I find some of these books?
posted by areaperson at 6:51 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by areaperson at 6:51 PM on August 13, 2016
racist, sexist, hateful fear-monger
The thing is that the question remains for the die-hard party flacks is whether or not Trump is effective; the racism is moot (or entirely ignorable). It goes back to the Douthat tweets I mentioned aaaaages ago where Douthat’s pick of outrageous Trump-esque Democrats weren’t radical kill-all-the-men or black-separatist types but radical publicity hounds and corrupt politicians. But even taking that as the metric - that it’s being bad at the job that matters and not the racism, I remain astounded at the number of folks willing to believe that Trump isn’t a snake oil salesman. It seems obvious on the face, though this may be the bias of my own upbringing; in my home Trump was always kind of a nothing.
Just - the notion that there’s an equivalence! Which, I suppose is why I’m also kind of driven crazy by left arguments that Clinton should be going after Trump as a typical Republican and not as a complete sleaze. Because Trump does seem to have won the nom in part because everyone has been told that politicians are all terrible for so long that, hell, why not Trump? And to treat Trump as a typical Republican kind of fundamentally buys into that narrative. Trump can be exceptionally terrible, or he can be the epitome of Republicanism, but spinning him as both appeals to two different populations and wins neither.
(Depressingly, I think this means that running against Ted Cruz four years from now because, say, he’s racist, won’t actually work. If Trump’s racism is meh, calling out Cruz for it seems like a losing proposition.)
posted by Going To Maine at 6:52 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
The thing is that the question remains for the die-hard party flacks is whether or not Trump is effective; the racism is moot (or entirely ignorable). It goes back to the Douthat tweets I mentioned aaaaages ago where Douthat’s pick of outrageous Trump-esque Democrats weren’t radical kill-all-the-men or black-separatist types but radical publicity hounds and corrupt politicians. But even taking that as the metric - that it’s being bad at the job that matters and not the racism, I remain astounded at the number of folks willing to believe that Trump isn’t a snake oil salesman. It seems obvious on the face, though this may be the bias of my own upbringing; in my home Trump was always kind of a nothing.
Just - the notion that there’s an equivalence! Which, I suppose is why I’m also kind of driven crazy by left arguments that Clinton should be going after Trump as a typical Republican and not as a complete sleaze. Because Trump does seem to have won the nom in part because everyone has been told that politicians are all terrible for so long that, hell, why not Trump? And to treat Trump as a typical Republican kind of fundamentally buys into that narrative. Trump can be exceptionally terrible, or he can be the epitome of Republicanism, but spinning him as both appeals to two different populations and wins neither.
(Depressingly, I think this means that running against Ted Cruz four years from now because, say, he’s racist, won’t actually work. If Trump’s racism is meh, calling out Cruz for it seems like a losing proposition.)
posted by Going To Maine at 6:52 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Snow/Mormont all the way!
Snow? Jon "this is a war of the living against the dead" Snow? Yeah, I'm not sure how to take that from a guy who has been dead once. Which side is he on? Plus, he used it as an excuse to walk away from his brothers on the Wall. Jon Snow. Wrong for the Wall. Wrong for Westeros.
Give me Sansa Stark and young Lady Mormont! The North Remembers!
posted by nubs at 6:53 PM on August 13, 2016 [15 favorites]
Snow? Jon "this is a war of the living against the dead" Snow? Yeah, I'm not sure how to take that from a guy who has been dead once. Which side is he on? Plus, he used it as an excuse to walk away from his brothers on the Wall. Jon Snow. Wrong for the Wall. Wrong for Westeros.
Give me Sansa Stark and young Lady Mormont! The North Remembers!
posted by nubs at 6:53 PM on August 13, 2016 [15 favorites]
Surely our information about LBJ's dick comes mostly from that excellent conversation with his tailor, not from the Secret Service?
posted by jackbishop at 6:53 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by jackbishop at 6:53 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
Here's a pretty popular secret service book which, as I recall, has some decent LBJ penis stories. I read way too many of these, I don't know what my problem is.
It reads like it's written by a credulous fifth grader but it's fun nonetheless.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:54 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
It reads like it's written by a credulous fifth grader but it's fun nonetheless.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:54 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
And everyone he showed it to, which was lots of people.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:54 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 6:54 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
SNOW/MORMONT
“More like snoremont.”
posted by Going To Maine at 6:54 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
“More like snoremont.”
posted by Going To Maine at 6:54 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
I expect Lady Mormont to handle all the domestic and foreign policy, leaving Jon Snow only one thing to do - Make Westeros Great Again!
posted by zakur at 6:55 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by zakur at 6:55 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
If you can get over the $BIG$NUM$ERZZZZ$!!1! shock, and consider the numbers that are there and what they mean
Really? Patronizing right off the bat?
Their investments/savings are a few years' worth of salary ... which is not that great, especially at retirement ages.
Sorry, this is totally divorced from reality. Going by just the liquid assets that show up on their tax return (so nothing that doesn't throw off income, none of their real estate, etc.), they could withdraw 3% annually for the rest of their lives and not come close to running out of money. So between that and Bill's pension, that's ~$1.3 million/year. I'd love to have the kind of money where $1.3mm/year is "not great".
They aren't even tax sheltering with many of the common mechanisms, or exotic ones.
They don't need to, they have tons of money and the marginal utility of a dollar it quite low at that level. It wouldn't be worth the trade off in how it would look for them politically when they know they will be publishing their tax returns as part of her campaign strategy.
posted by indubitable at 6:55 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Really? Patronizing right off the bat?
Their investments/savings are a few years' worth of salary ... which is not that great, especially at retirement ages.
Sorry, this is totally divorced from reality. Going by just the liquid assets that show up on their tax return (so nothing that doesn't throw off income, none of their real estate, etc.), they could withdraw 3% annually for the rest of their lives and not come close to running out of money. So between that and Bill's pension, that's ~$1.3 million/year. I'd love to have the kind of money where $1.3mm/year is "not great".
They aren't even tax sheltering with many of the common mechanisms, or exotic ones.
They don't need to, they have tons of money and the marginal utility of a dollar it quite low at that level. It wouldn't be worth the trade off in how it would look for them politically when they know they will be publishing their tax returns as part of her campaign strategy.
posted by indubitable at 6:55 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Hey, hey LBJ
show us your cock
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:56 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
show us your cock
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:56 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
It was very important to Lyndon that his Johnson loom large in his legend.
posted by wabbittwax at 6:56 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by wabbittwax at 6:56 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
It was very important to Lyndon that his Johnson loom large in his legend.
Whereas the person with the biggest obsession with Bill Clinton's pecker was Kenneth Starr
posted by Francis at 6:58 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Whereas the person with the biggest obsession with Bill Clinton's pecker was Kenneth Starr
posted by Francis at 6:58 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't care that Daenerys might turn out to be a supervillain and that Asha'll never really kick her reaving habit, I'm still Targaryen/Greyjoy all the way.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:58 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:58 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
So now we have an Iman and his associate being gunned down in broad daylight in NYC.
posted by Talez at 6:58 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Talez at 6:58 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
it was very important to Lyndon that his Johnson loom large in his legend.
You should have seen the size of his hands.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:59 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
You should have seen the size of his hands.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:59 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
indubitable, no one is denying that the Clintons have more than enough money.
We're just saying it's not that surprising an amount given that Bill is a former President. They could be making a lot more. No one's saying they're saints, but money doesn't seem to be the primary motivating force in their life. They could have a hell of a comfortable life retiring to Chappaqua stepping out once in a while to make a speech.
posted by peacheater at 6:59 PM on August 13, 2016 [23 favorites]
We're just saying it's not that surprising an amount given that Bill is a former President. They could be making a lot more. No one's saying they're saints, but money doesn't seem to be the primary motivating force in their life. They could have a hell of a comfortable life retiring to Chappaqua stepping out once in a while to make a speech.
posted by peacheater at 6:59 PM on August 13, 2016 [23 favorites]
It was very important to Lyndon that his Johnson loom large in his legend.
Wait. Was it called a Johnson before Johnson?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:01 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Wait. Was it called a Johnson before Johnson?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:01 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
What happened to that Mayor of Baltimore guy?
posted by Artw at 7:02 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 7:02 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wait. Was it called a Johnson before Johnson?
Yes.
posted by Talez at 7:03 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yes.
posted by Talez at 7:03 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump all "I'm here to Make Westeros Great Again! Only I can fix this! I am your voice!" and Daenerys like "*eyeroll" and then "dracarys!"
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:03 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:03 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
They save a lot on their entertainment budget too since all it is is a weekly visit to the party store to get Bill a few balloons.
posted by wabbittwax at 7:03 PM on August 13, 2016 [49 favorites]
posted by wabbittwax at 7:03 PM on August 13, 2016 [49 favorites]
What happened to that Mayor of Baltimore guy?
Busy creepin' on Sansa.
posted by Justinian at 7:03 PM on August 13, 2016 [23 favorites]
Busy creepin' on Sansa.
posted by Justinian at 7:03 PM on August 13, 2016 [23 favorites]
Sorry, I can't give the national checkbook to Danaerys, Mereen isn't looking that good these days. Lady Mormont it is.
posted by Dashy at 7:06 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by Dashy at 7:06 PM on August 13, 2016
I assume that with all the scrutiny, rumor-monging and outright fabrications of corruption thrown toward Hillary that she is extra-double-scrupulous with the family finances and has, on a regular basis, given money talks to Bill starting with "We absolutely can NOT do that".
I think her paid speech to Goldman Sachs was a rather savvy (if not cynical) move, not in terms of 'selling out' but in terms of making herself less objectionable to people who had tons of PAC-able money to throw around, and maybe get them to throw less money at her future opposition without necessarily hoping they'd actually support her. But if she'd known her Republican opponent would be a fraudster who hasn't been able to get any American bank to do business with him since before 2000, I suspect she would not have bothered and gotten a slightly-less lucrative speaking gig from a less-infamous institution.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:08 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
I think her paid speech to Goldman Sachs was a rather savvy (if not cynical) move, not in terms of 'selling out' but in terms of making herself less objectionable to people who had tons of PAC-able money to throw around, and maybe get them to throw less money at her future opposition without necessarily hoping they'd actually support her. But if she'd known her Republican opponent would be a fraudster who hasn't been able to get any American bank to do business with him since before 2000, I suspect she would not have bothered and gotten a slightly-less lucrative speaking gig from a less-infamous institution.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:08 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
> Sorry, I can't give the national checkbook to Danaerys, Mereen isn't looking that good these days. Lady Mormont it is.
yeah sure go ahead and throw away your vote on a third-party candidate with only 62 bannermen behind her. Like, I'm not saying that a vote for Lady Mormont is a vote for the Night's King, but, well, a vote for Lady Mormont is a vote for the Night's King.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:09 PM on August 13, 2016 [11 favorites]
yeah sure go ahead and throw away your vote on a third-party candidate with only 62 bannermen behind her. Like, I'm not saying that a vote for Lady Mormont is a vote for the Night's King, but, well, a vote for Lady Mormont is a vote for the Night's King.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:09 PM on August 13, 2016 [11 favorites]
Littlefinger denounces Trump: Martin O'Malley On Donald Trump, 2016, Baltimore Police | Morning Joe | MSNBC
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:12 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:12 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
Indubitable, would you want to be facing retirement on savings of 3x your yearly income? Would you recommend that strategy to others? If that is what you had at age 70, would you consider it an accomplishment, good money management?
Reply without using dollar amounts, please.
posted by Dashy at 7:14 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Reply without using dollar amounts, please.
posted by Dashy at 7:14 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sorry, this is totally divorced from reality. Going by just the liquid assets that show up on their tax return (so nothing that doesn't throw off income, none of their real estate, etc.), they could withdraw 3% annually for the rest of their lives and not come close to running out of money. So between that and Bill's pension, that's ~$1.3 million/year. I'd love to have the kind of money where $1.3mm/year is "not great".
Trump's Islamophobia is winding people up to the point that a man was shot in cold blood today.
But by all means, let's fucking analyze the Clinton's tax returns because their tax bracket is far worse for society.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:14 PM on August 13, 2016 [93 favorites]
This discussion about how wealthy the Clintons are is actually a pretty interesting phenomenon that has to do with the vast income inequality of the 1%, but perhaps in not the way that is first apparent.
The income of the people in the top 1% is *so* much greater than everyone else's that the amount of money is staggering and impossible to comprehend. The context that defenders are putting around this money (the Clintons aren't doing the hinkey tax-dodge tricks that people in this income bracket do; they would easily be able to make so much more money and pay so much less in taxes if they even tried in that financial milieu) makes sense when you're able to even see that kind of financial stratus from a distance. Most of us can't. This lack of context is even more exaggerated about the financial milieu of the top 0.1%.
Yep, they are wealthy. Yep, income equality is out of whack. Yep, that's a really big problem for society as a whole. I guess the way I look at it is, I do not begrudge people being wealthy per se, but I do judge insanely wealthy people by what legacy they leave in the world, given that they are so fortunate. Think of the Gates Foundation, think of Warren Buffett, think of Jim Sinegal (founder of Costco and fantastic philanthropist).
I am mindful that the former presidents from my lifetime who are Democrats are doing things like:
* Brokering peace deals, fighting guinea worm, building houses for homeless people with his own hands, and teaching Sunday School (Jimmy Carter)
* Doing foundation-related public service and supporting his wife in her public service career (Bill Clinton)
In contrast, what did the Republicans do? Regean perhaps gets a pass as he was declining and dying, but please, someone tell me what great charitable works GHWB and GWB have done since leaving office?
posted by Sublimity at 7:15 PM on August 13, 2016 [33 favorites]
The income of the people in the top 1% is *so* much greater than everyone else's that the amount of money is staggering and impossible to comprehend. The context that defenders are putting around this money (the Clintons aren't doing the hinkey tax-dodge tricks that people in this income bracket do; they would easily be able to make so much more money and pay so much less in taxes if they even tried in that financial milieu) makes sense when you're able to even see that kind of financial stratus from a distance. Most of us can't. This lack of context is even more exaggerated about the financial milieu of the top 0.1%.
Yep, they are wealthy. Yep, income equality is out of whack. Yep, that's a really big problem for society as a whole. I guess the way I look at it is, I do not begrudge people being wealthy per se, but I do judge insanely wealthy people by what legacy they leave in the world, given that they are so fortunate. Think of the Gates Foundation, think of Warren Buffett, think of Jim Sinegal (founder of Costco and fantastic philanthropist).
I am mindful that the former presidents from my lifetime who are Democrats are doing things like:
* Brokering peace deals, fighting guinea worm, building houses for homeless people with his own hands, and teaching Sunday School (Jimmy Carter)
* Doing foundation-related public service and supporting his wife in her public service career (Bill Clinton)
In contrast, what did the Republicans do? Regean perhaps gets a pass as he was declining and dying, but please, someone tell me what great charitable works GHWB and GWB have done since leaving office?
posted by Sublimity at 7:15 PM on August 13, 2016 [33 favorites]
Indubitable, would you want to be facing retirement on savings of 3x your yearly income? Would you recommend that strategy to others? If that is what you had at age 70, would you consider it an accomplishment, good money management?
That sounds fine to me, since I care about my savings relative to my expenses, not relative to my yearly income.
posted by value of information at 7:16 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
That sounds fine to me, since I care about my savings relative to my expenses, not relative to my yearly income.
posted by value of information at 7:16 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Besides, dragons for voter intimidation, a bit ... too warm, I think.
posted by Dashy at 7:16 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by Dashy at 7:16 PM on August 13, 2016
You know there's ACTUAL LITERAL DRAGON running for pres, right?
posted by rp at 7:18 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by rp at 7:18 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
> Besides, dragons for voter intimidation, a bit ... too warm, I think.
posted by Dashy at 7:16 PM on August 13 [+] [!]
Look, I mean, I respect the purists out there, sort of, but you have to admit that everyone who participates high-level politics in any meaningful way eventually has to get their hands dirty.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:20 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 7:16 PM on August 13 [+] [!]
Look, I mean, I respect the purists out there, sort of, but you have to admit that everyone who participates high-level politics in any meaningful way eventually has to get their hands dirty.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:20 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
The Clinton's income is a political derail - whether they make more money than 99.9% of Americans is immaterial, especially since she's running against an alleged billionaire.
The question is what she will do with the power of the Presidency, and whether what she will do will be a net positive. I believe it will be. If you believe that as well, it doesn't matter if she has more money than you do.
posted by Mooski at 7:21 PM on August 13, 2016 [34 favorites]
The question is what she will do with the power of the Presidency, and whether what she will do will be a net positive. I believe it will be. If you believe that as well, it doesn't matter if she has more money than you do.
posted by Mooski at 7:21 PM on August 13, 2016 [34 favorites]
Surely our information about LBJ's dick comes mostly from that excellent conversation with his tailor, not from the Secret Service?
Dressed slightly to the left, if you know what I'm saying.
posted by modernnomad at 7:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Dressed slightly to the left, if you know what I'm saying.
posted by modernnomad at 7:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
The Clinton $$ issue is also a bit silly because Obama is gonna make a fuck-ton of money in the coming years (and has already made, like the Clintons, more than most people will ever earn simply through book advances), and I doubt most progressives will be up in arms about it. It's a stick to beat Clinton with for particular purposes, not due to some coherent underlying philosophy. Public speaking is not automatically an underhanded quid pro quo - if GS wanted to bribe someone, there are far more effective ways of doing it than inviting someone in to give a speech.
posted by modernnomad at 7:26 PM on August 13, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by modernnomad at 7:26 PM on August 13, 2016 [26 favorites]
Not only is it a derail it is another example of the double standard applied to Hillary. Bernie Sanders never released his tax returns and didn't disclose the millions in Vermont real estate and assets held by his wife. Jill Stein is a rich retired doctor/Harvard professor from one of America's most affluent zip codes and her spouse is also a doctor. Yet the only one you are hammering is Hillary.
posted by humanfont at 7:28 PM on August 13, 2016 [135 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 7:28 PM on August 13, 2016 [135 favorites]
I'll absolutely yammer on to fight the corrupt! sinister! narrative, and especially when it involves a subject I can quantify and understand.
In contrast, the shooting of an imam leaves me profoundly speechless.
posted by Dashy at 7:32 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
In contrast, the shooting of an imam leaves me profoundly speechless.
posted by Dashy at 7:32 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
And Trump has ::pinkie finger:: 10 billion dollars!
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:32 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:32 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
Not only is it a derail it is another example of the double standard applied to Hillary. Bernie Sanders never released his tax returns and didn't disclose the millions in Vermont real estate and assets held by his wife. Jill Stein is a rich retired doctor/Harvard professor from one of America's most affluent zip codes and her spouse is also a doctor. Yet the only one you are hammering is Hillary.
I can't like this comment enough times. The number of people who claim they have nothing against Clinton but continually apply a double standard when it comes to other candidates is infuriating.
posted by frumiousb at 7:34 PM on August 13, 2016 [60 favorites]
I can't like this comment enough times. The number of people who claim they have nothing against Clinton but continually apply a double standard when it comes to other candidates is infuriating.
posted by frumiousb at 7:34 PM on August 13, 2016 [60 favorites]
The context that defenders are putting around this money (the Clintons aren't doing the hinkey tax-dodge tricks that people in this income bracket do; they would easily be able to make so much more money and pay so much less in taxes if they even tried in that financial milieu) makes sense when you're able to even see that kind of financial stratus from a distance. Most of us can't. This lack of context is even more exaggerated about the financial milieu of the top 0.1%.
So this is interesting. My context for this is that for people to freak out about the Clintons being wealthy, let alone that presidential nominees are wealthy, is that they haven't been paying attention. I absolutely believe that we should evaluate the rich based on how they dispurse their assets, but it just seems shockingly naive to not have noticed that, hey, these elected officials are well off.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:37 PM on August 13, 2016 [11 favorites]
So this is interesting. My context for this is that for people to freak out about the Clintons being wealthy, let alone that presidential nominees are wealthy, is that they haven't been paying attention. I absolutely believe that we should evaluate the rich based on how they dispurse their assets, but it just seems shockingly naive to not have noticed that, hey, these elected officials are well off.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:37 PM on August 13, 2016 [11 favorites]
Trump also said he's thinking about banning the New York Times, citing their "dishonest stories," and "Real garbage. They're garbage. It's a garbage paper."
Has "garbage person" actually made it into Trump's vernacular? He does seem to spend a lot of time on Twitter after all.
posted by zachlipton at 7:40 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Has "garbage person" actually made it into Trump's vernacular? He does seem to spend a lot of time on Twitter after all.
posted by zachlipton at 7:40 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Not only is it a derail it is another example of the double standard applied to Hillary. Bernie Sanders never released his tax returns and didn't disclose the millions in Vermont real estate and assets held by his wife. Jill Stein is a rich retired doctor/Harvard professor from one of America's most affluent zip codes and her spouse is also a doctor. Yet the only one you are hammering is Hillary.
Hillary Clinton is almost certainly going to be president. If Sanders or Stein were in the same position, I'm certain we'd be talking about their finances, too. People want to talk about income inequality and wealth inequality and the role our leadership plays in those things in the hope that by discourse and dissent they can make society more equitable, reduce the power of money in our politics and increase the power of people. The constant refrain that any effort to put progressive pressure on politicians and our politics is simply dressed up Trumpism is not only insulting, but seems designed solely to quash discourse and dissent.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:42 PM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
Hillary Clinton is almost certainly going to be president. If Sanders or Stein were in the same position, I'm certain we'd be talking about their finances, too. People want to talk about income inequality and wealth inequality and the role our leadership plays in those things in the hope that by discourse and dissent they can make society more equitable, reduce the power of money in our politics and increase the power of people. The constant refrain that any effort to put progressive pressure on politicians and our politics is simply dressed up Trumpism is not only insulting, but seems designed solely to quash discourse and dissent.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:42 PM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
Part of the point that I was trying to make with an earlier comment is that in the current political climate, there is every expectation that a president is going to be subject to multiple politically-motivated lawsuits. We already have one lawsuit aimed at Clinton stemming from Benghazi, and we'd be fools to think that the operatives on the right aren't going to pull out the same playbook that they used against Bill Clinton. They'll enmesh the administration in lawsuits so that others believe that where there's smoke there's fire - and maybe they'll be able to make them admit to something embarrassing or catch them in a lie. And because the lawsuits are personal, the president can't use public funds for defense and must bankroll the defense or rely on personal fundraising.
So right now, I want Democratic presidents to have some level of personal wealth, as a buffer against this tactic. It sucks, and it's not the way it should be. But in my estimation, there is far more opportunity for money-in-politics corruption if a president is trying to fundraise for the their personal financial survival during their presidency versus having given speeches to Goldman Sachs. Right now, the political system cannot protect a person of normal financial means in the highest office in the land. That's a tragedy, but one not as simple as those who typically rail against money in politics would suggest.
posted by Chanther at 7:42 PM on August 13, 2016 [29 favorites]
So right now, I want Democratic presidents to have some level of personal wealth, as a buffer against this tactic. It sucks, and it's not the way it should be. But in my estimation, there is far more opportunity for money-in-politics corruption if a president is trying to fundraise for the their personal financial survival during their presidency versus having given speeches to Goldman Sachs. Right now, the political system cannot protect a person of normal financial means in the highest office in the land. That's a tragedy, but one not as simple as those who typically rail against money in politics would suggest.
posted by Chanther at 7:42 PM on August 13, 2016 [29 favorites]
please, someone tell me what great charitable works GHWB and GWB have done since leaving office?
To be fair to Bush 41 he went out with Bill Clinton to raise money for the victims of the 2004 Pacific tsunami (that's a friendship that got Clinton a lot of criticism from some more strident Democratic partisans, as well).
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 7:42 PM on August 13, 2016 [20 favorites]
To be fair to Bush 41 he went out with Bill Clinton to raise money for the victims of the 2004 Pacific tsunami (that's a friendship that got Clinton a lot of criticism from some more strident Democratic partisans, as well).
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 7:42 PM on August 13, 2016 [20 favorites]
I think there are plenty of ways to discuss the problems associated with the power of money in politics that don't boil down to "Hillary got paid a lot of money to give speeches when she charged the market rate and a bunch of people bought her books." I also think that discussion is more productive.
posted by zachlipton at 7:44 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:44 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
Humour me the full extension of one more point: if the median American had saved 3x salary at retirement, that would be ~$150k, producing safe withdrawal income of $4500/yr.
We call that failure, and have a federal entitlement program built around preventing retireees from living on that little.
I realize there is marginal utility applied to larger amounts, but the basic point is that 3x income is not great as far as lifetime money mongering goes.
posted by Dashy at 7:45 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
We call that failure, and have a federal entitlement program built around preventing retireees from living on that little.
I realize there is marginal utility applied to larger amounts, but the basic point is that 3x income is not great as far as lifetime money mongering goes.
posted by Dashy at 7:45 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
People want to talk about income inequality and wealth inequality and the role our leadership plays in those things in the hope that by discourse and dissent they can make society more equitable, reduce the power of money in our politics and increase the power of people. The constant refrain that any effort to put progressive pressure on politicians and our politics is simply dressed up Trumpism is not only insulting, but seems designed solely to quash discourse and dissent.
The way to do that is to address her policy proposals.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:45 PM on August 13, 2016 [18 favorites]
The way to do that is to address her policy proposals.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:45 PM on August 13, 2016 [18 favorites]
Trump's Islamophobia is winding people up to the point that a man was shot in cold blood today.
EC as far as I've seen we don't know that there is any causal relationship or even if the shooting was a hate crime. Maybe it was. But if you've seen NYPD say so, it's news to me.
It's sick enough that it's a plausible inference of course.
posted by spitbull at 7:45 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
EC as far as I've seen we don't know that there is any causal relationship or even if the shooting was a hate crime. Maybe it was. But if you've seen NYPD say so, it's news to me.
It's sick enough that it's a plausible inference of course.
posted by spitbull at 7:45 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm completely not understanding the idea that the poorer you are the more qualified you'd be for President, or that an ex-President or First Lady who didn't ask large fees for speaking to rich audiences, or didn't speak in public at all would inherently be a better president.
posted by bongo_x at 7:49 PM on August 13, 2016 [29 favorites]
posted by bongo_x at 7:49 PM on August 13, 2016 [29 favorites]
I'm completely not understanding the idea that the poorer you are the more qualified you'd be for President, or that an ex-President or First Lady who didn't ask large fees for speaking to rich audiences, or didn't speak in public at all would inherently be a better president.
posted by bongo_x at 7:49 PM on August 13 [+] [!]
It's...not a great idea.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:53 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by bongo_x at 7:49 PM on August 13 [+] [!]
It's...not a great idea.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:53 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
The constant refrain that any effort to put progressive pressure on politicians and our politics is simply dressed up Trumpism is not only insulting, but seems designed solely to quash discourse and dissent.
Progressive pressure on the income of candidates comes from things like reforming the system so that the less wealthy can be elected, increasing the pay of elected officials so they don't feel bound to go to the private sector, and campaigning for nominees who make less than a certain amount (as was attempted with Bernie, although I'm also not certain that a financial litmus great would play well with the electorate).
It doesn't come from delegitimizing the current nominee about her business choices over the past ten years.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:55 PM on August 13, 2016 [34 favorites]
Progressive pressure on the income of candidates comes from things like reforming the system so that the less wealthy can be elected, increasing the pay of elected officials so they don't feel bound to go to the private sector, and campaigning for nominees who make less than a certain amount (as was attempted with Bernie, although I'm also not certain that a financial litmus great would play well with the electorate).
It doesn't come from delegitimizing the current nominee about her business choices over the past ten years.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:55 PM on August 13, 2016 [34 favorites]
I'm completely not understanding the idea that the poorer you are the more qualified you'd be for President, or that an ex-President or First Lady who didn't ask large fees for speaking to rich audiences, or didn't speak in public at all would inherently be a better president.
I was responding to someone who claimed that the finances implied by their tax return demonstrate that the Clintons are "not money hungry" and are therefore virtuous for it. The ideas in your comment are your invention.
posted by indubitable at 7:56 PM on August 13, 2016
I was responding to someone who claimed that the finances implied by their tax return demonstrate that the Clintons are "not money hungry" and are therefore virtuous for it. The ideas in your comment are your invention.
posted by indubitable at 7:56 PM on August 13, 2016
JFK, both Roosevelts, and LBJ were all in the top ten for relative net worth among presidents. Somebody please demonstrate that had any bearing on their economic policy.
posted by one_bean at 7:57 PM on August 13, 2016 [30 favorites]
posted by one_bean at 7:57 PM on August 13, 2016 [30 favorites]
Wait. Was it called a Johnson before Johnson?
Surely it's the reason a Johnson is called a Johnson.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:01 PM on August 13, 2016
Surely it's the reason a Johnson is called a Johnson.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:01 PM on August 13, 2016
Everyone seems to be responding to this idea of populism that no one has put forth. I literally said that every candidate is wealthy and that of course it doesn't mean they can't do the right thing. To read that as an expectation that all our presidents should be poor is just absurd.
posted by teponaztli at 8:02 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by teponaztli at 8:02 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
So I've been thinking a lot about the whole Trump "rigged election" and calling for poll watchers thing, and it got me thinking about how much of Trump's whole MO has always involved sticking his name on everything. It's got to follow that most of his volunteer poll watchers (not to mention a good number of the first-time voters he may be pulling in) will be showing up in TRUMP t-shirts.
When they all get turned away from entering the polling site for going against the rules on electioneering too close to a poll site, that looks like an easy trigger for him to "prove" that his people weren't allowed to vote or confirm impartiality. And easy to capture on video as it happens (and stupid people being stupid, explaining because it's the law, duh won't get you very far) . Is this something I should be worrying about, or am I just in these threads too deep?
posted by Mchelly at 8:04 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
When they all get turned away from entering the polling site for going against the rules on electioneering too close to a poll site, that looks like an easy trigger for him to "prove" that his people weren't allowed to vote or confirm impartiality. And easy to capture on video as it happens (and stupid people being stupid, explaining because it's the law, duh won't get you very far) . Is this something I should be worrying about, or am I just in these threads too deep?
posted by Mchelly at 8:04 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
And because the lawsuits are personal, the president can't use public funds for defense and must bankroll the defense or rely on personal fundraising.
Estimates are that the Clinton's had $10 million in legal bills after 8 years in office. As Hillary said, they were deeply in debt, but were able to erase that debt rather quickly through speaking fees. It is absolutely true that the Republicans will try to hound Democrats into debt through endless frivolous lawsuits.
posted by JackFlash at 8:05 PM on August 13, 2016 [51 favorites]
Estimates are that the Clinton's had $10 million in legal bills after 8 years in office. As Hillary said, they were deeply in debt, but were able to erase that debt rather quickly through speaking fees. It is absolutely true that the Republicans will try to hound Democrats into debt through endless frivolous lawsuits.
posted by JackFlash at 8:05 PM on August 13, 2016 [51 favorites]
To be clear, I am not worried about that actually affecting the election in any way, but I an worried about its effect on civil unrest after the fact.
posted by Mchelly at 8:06 PM on August 13, 2016
posted by Mchelly at 8:06 PM on August 13, 2016
The right wing militias are going to do the same bullshit they've been doing; nothing more.
posted by humanfont at 8:09 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by humanfont at 8:09 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Progressive pressure on the income of candidates comes from things like reforming the system
How should we reform the system if talking about this now is seen to delegitimize our candidate? I'm not being glib, I mean really, its not for lack of trying that the system hasn't already been reformed. What can we do if there's no point in talking about this in the first place?
posted by teponaztli at 8:11 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
How should we reform the system if talking about this now is seen to delegitimize our candidate? I'm not being glib, I mean really, its not for lack of trying that the system hasn't already been reformed. What can we do if there's no point in talking about this in the first place?
posted by teponaztli at 8:11 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
I was responding to someone who claimed that the finances implied by their tax return demonstrate that the Clintons are "not money hungry" and are therefore virtuous for it. The ideas in your comment are your invention.
So, color me a cynic, but many people who aren't necessarily primarily motivated by money are, in fact, motivated by money. Not wholly, but at least partially. A university research faculty member might not be motivated by cash, but they'll do their darn destination to get the largest grants possible to further their agenda. A speaker who charges below the market rate for their speeches, even if they aren't in it for the money, is considered worth less. Surgeons will fuss about how they want to help people, but it's not like they don't get paid.
Clinton charged the market rate for her services. She gave ten percent of her income to charity, which is better than me. She's fine.
posted by Going To Maine at 8:12 PM on August 13, 2016 [23 favorites]
So, color me a cynic, but many people who aren't necessarily primarily motivated by money are, in fact, motivated by money. Not wholly, but at least partially. A university research faculty member might not be motivated by cash, but they'll do their darn destination to get the largest grants possible to further their agenda. A speaker who charges below the market rate for their speeches, even if they aren't in it for the money, is considered worth less. Surgeons will fuss about how they want to help people, but it's not like they don't get paid.
Clinton charged the market rate for her services. She gave ten percent of her income to charity, which is better than me. She's fine.
posted by Going To Maine at 8:12 PM on August 13, 2016 [23 favorites]
So . . . remember when Trump said he was going to surround himself with the best, the brightest, the winningest team of advisers and whatnot that had ever been assembled?
Yet look what he actually has delivered:
Paladino -- a trainwreck of a has-been who can't articulate a coherent idea; disparages military heroes.
Manafort -- a toady to Russian oligarchs; hasn't met an idea he can't be paid to endorse
Lewindowski -- ??
Katrina Pierson - self-loathing, wanna-be White Nationalist; has no problems twisting herself into pretzels to defend the campaign
It's just insane. "Best and brightest" my ass. This isn't even the junior varsity team.
There has to be 2 things going on here:
1. The "best and brightest" took a look at the Trump campaign, and "NOPE"d the hell out; and
2. The Trump campaign can't tell the difference between "great" and "crap" when it comes to political operatives.
There is nobody on the Trump campaign who knows what they are doing. They aren't even capable of recognizing how bad they are, let alone coming up with a plan to fix it. Trump himself is consistently immune to constructive criticism.
He's an incompetent candidate with an incompetent campaign, with no chance to turn it around.
posted by yesster at 8:14 PM on August 13, 2016 [30 favorites]
Yet look what he actually has delivered:
Paladino -- a trainwreck of a has-been who can't articulate a coherent idea; disparages military heroes.
Manafort -- a toady to Russian oligarchs; hasn't met an idea he can't be paid to endorse
Lewindowski -- ??
Katrina Pierson - self-loathing, wanna-be White Nationalist; has no problems twisting herself into pretzels to defend the campaign
It's just insane. "Best and brightest" my ass. This isn't even the junior varsity team.
There has to be 2 things going on here:
1. The "best and brightest" took a look at the Trump campaign, and "NOPE"d the hell out; and
2. The Trump campaign can't tell the difference between "great" and "crap" when it comes to political operatives.
There is nobody on the Trump campaign who knows what they are doing. They aren't even capable of recognizing how bad they are, let alone coming up with a plan to fix it. Trump himself is consistently immune to constructive criticism.
He's an incompetent candidate with an incompetent campaign, with no chance to turn it around.
posted by yesster at 8:14 PM on August 13, 2016 [30 favorites]
KQED Forum: “David Cay Johnston Digs Into ‘The Making of Donald Trump’”
Apropos of nothing, my David Cay Johnston story:
4 jobs ago one of my duties was recording lectures and putting them online. One of those lectures was Johnston's.
In the lecture Johnston made mention of how Toyota had to resort to pictographs to train the autoworkers in the South because they were so illiterate. As a spouse of a Southerner, that didn't ring true, so I used my iPhone during the lecture to spelunk around Google and see if the story was true. I tracked it down to an auto parts manufacturing spokesperson in Canada who had said a friend-of-a-friend told him this was true and it was about Toyota. Toyota and pretty much everyone else denied it was so, and no one ever produced a pictograph from one of these plants. Krugman mentioned it in passing in a 2005 column, but didn't give it any credence.
After the lecture, I talked to Johnston and mentioned hey, that story you told? It doesn't have a lot of credence... and he just started ripping into me and HOW DARE I question his facts and THIS IS REAL and SOMETHING SOMETHING YOU MUST BE A REPUBLICAN and that's about when I tuned out and someone else came over and distracted him.
So yeah. What a jerk.
posted by dw at 8:15 PM on August 13, 2016 [50 favorites]
Apropos of nothing, my David Cay Johnston story:
4 jobs ago one of my duties was recording lectures and putting them online. One of those lectures was Johnston's.
In the lecture Johnston made mention of how Toyota had to resort to pictographs to train the autoworkers in the South because they were so illiterate. As a spouse of a Southerner, that didn't ring true, so I used my iPhone during the lecture to spelunk around Google and see if the story was true. I tracked it down to an auto parts manufacturing spokesperson in Canada who had said a friend-of-a-friend told him this was true and it was about Toyota. Toyota and pretty much everyone else denied it was so, and no one ever produced a pictograph from one of these plants. Krugman mentioned it in passing in a 2005 column, but didn't give it any credence.
After the lecture, I talked to Johnston and mentioned hey, that story you told? It doesn't have a lot of credence... and he just started ripping into me and HOW DARE I question his facts and THIS IS REAL and SOMETHING SOMETHING YOU MUST BE A REPUBLICAN and that's about when I tuned out and someone else came over and distracted him.
So yeah. What a jerk.
posted by dw at 8:15 PM on August 13, 2016 [50 favorites]
It is absolutely true that the Republicans will try to hound Democrats into debt through endless frivolous lawsuits.
Peter Thiel learned it by watching them.
posted by dw at 8:15 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
Peter Thiel learned it by watching them.
posted by dw at 8:15 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
The way to do that is to address her policy proposals.
I agree with this, but I wouldn't stop there. You also have to change the ideology and the material structure that produces it. YCTAB up-thread summarized it well:
The constraint that the paid speaker system imposes is less about specific quid-pro-quos, and more about a soft suasion that limits the field of statements and acts that are admissible in public among people who wish to remain influential in public.
Picking and choosing proffered policy proposals isn't proactive enough by itself to actually make what is considered acceptable or normal more progressive.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:16 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
I agree with this, but I wouldn't stop there. You also have to change the ideology and the material structure that produces it. YCTAB up-thread summarized it well:
The constraint that the paid speaker system imposes is less about specific quid-pro-quos, and more about a soft suasion that limits the field of statements and acts that are admissible in public among people who wish to remain influential in public.
Picking and choosing proffered policy proposals isn't proactive enough by itself to actually make what is considered acceptable or normal more progressive.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:16 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm not really sure what difference it makes that Hillary is rich. She wasn't always rich. She certainly has more of an idea what it's like to be a middle class person than Trump does.
posted by xyzzy at 8:21 PM on August 13, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 8:21 PM on August 13, 2016 [22 favorites]
How should we reform the system if talking about this now is seen to delegitimize our candidate? I'm not being glib, I mean really, its not for lack of trying that the system hasn't already been reformed. What can we do if there's no point in talking about this in the first place
To start, we could suggest specific reforms (legislative, executive, or judicial) rather than wishing Hillary Clinton hadn't charged so much to give speeches? Like, I don't know, appoint Supreme Court justices that would overturn Citizen's United or shoot for an Amendment to do so; sign executive orders to require greater donor disclosure from publicly traded companies and federal contractors; or establish a small donor matching program to increase individual donors' political power. Those kinds of things would likely have more bearing on reforming the system than worrying about a candidate's net worth. You'll never guess where I got those ideas.
posted by one_bean at 8:21 PM on August 13, 2016 [44 favorites]
To start, we could suggest specific reforms (legislative, executive, or judicial) rather than wishing Hillary Clinton hadn't charged so much to give speeches? Like, I don't know, appoint Supreme Court justices that would overturn Citizen's United or shoot for an Amendment to do so; sign executive orders to require greater donor disclosure from publicly traded companies and federal contractors; or establish a small donor matching program to increase individual donors' political power. Those kinds of things would likely have more bearing on reforming the system than worrying about a candidate's net worth. You'll never guess where I got those ideas.
posted by one_bean at 8:21 PM on August 13, 2016 [44 favorites]
zombieflanders: But in interviews with more than 20 Republicans who are close to Mr. Trump or in communication with his campaign, many of whom insisted on anonymity to avoid clashing with him, they described their nominee as exhausted, frustrated and still bewildered by fine points of the political process and why his incendiary approach seems to be sputtering.
That's the problem with angry mobs and their fires - the flames eventually burn out, either from lack of care or because they ran out of things they were willing to burn. Or worse, the wind changes and the fire turns on those who made it.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
That's the problem with angry mobs and their fires - the flames eventually burn out, either from lack of care or because they ran out of things they were willing to burn. Or worse, the wind changes and the fire turns on those who made it.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
I am actually frustrated that political office is so lucrative and so entangled with huge sums of money.
Being president these days is like being a big league sportster. You basically have to retire and do stuff that might be lucrative in its own way (books, speaking) but you're not allowed to have a political profile other than "former president". That's a bit shit, really. One of the supposed benefits of a republic is that the head-of-state job is just a job. But the post-presidency is weird.
I'm much more frustrated with people like Evan Bayh who's a second-generation pol, quit the Senate six years ago saying that he was going to go home and teach in Indiana, instead got himself a DC law/lobbyist job and got appointed to a few corporate boards, and is now running again for the Senate because he fancies his chances. That's the revolving fucking door, and he's a fucking Democrat.
posted by holgate at 8:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
Being president these days is like being a big league sportster. You basically have to retire and do stuff that might be lucrative in its own way (books, speaking) but you're not allowed to have a political profile other than "former president". That's a bit shit, really. One of the supposed benefits of a republic is that the head-of-state job is just a job. But the post-presidency is weird.
I'm much more frustrated with people like Evan Bayh who's a second-generation pol, quit the Senate six years ago saying that he was going to go home and teach in Indiana, instead got himself a DC law/lobbyist job and got appointed to a few corporate boards, and is now running again for the Senate because he fancies his chances. That's the revolving fucking door, and he's a fucking Democrat.
posted by holgate at 8:22 PM on August 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
Surely it's the reason a Johnson is called a Johnson. -- Joey Michaels
Don't be fatuous, Joey.
posted by rokusan at 8:26 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Don't be fatuous, Joey.
posted by rokusan at 8:26 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
You guys, I just entered an HRC starting to hang out with Tim Kaine. If I win, I'll finally be meeting somebody else who thinks Let It Be by The Replacements is the greatest album ever.
I will make a Playlist consisting of Unsatisfied by The Replacements and Satisfied from Hamilton over and over again to prepare.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:26 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
I will make a Playlist consisting of Unsatisfied by The Replacements and Satisfied from Hamilton over and over again to prepare.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:26 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
How should we reform the system if talking about this now is seen to delegitimize our candidate? I'm not being glib, I mean really, its not for lack of trying that the system hasn't already been reformed. What can we do if there's no point in talking about this in the first place.
November ninth will be a great day to bring it up.
posted by Going To Maine at 8:27 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
November ninth will be a great day to bring it up.
posted by Going To Maine at 8:27 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm not really sure what difference it makes that Hillary is rich. She wasn't always rich. She certainly has more of an idea what it's like to be a middle class person than Trump does.
Class-warfare-wise, it's a bit of a step backward from the Obamas, who came a little closer to working class than anyone since, what, Carter?
But yeah, attacking her for being wealthy is an especially wtf sort of argument this season.
posted by rokusan at 8:27 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
Class-warfare-wise, it's a bit of a step backward from the Obamas, who came a little closer to working class than anyone since, what, Carter?
But yeah, attacking her for being wealthy is an especially wtf sort of argument this season.
posted by rokusan at 8:27 PM on August 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
Surely it's the reason a Johnson is called a Johnson.
LBJ pressured people to have it called a Lyndon, but no luck there.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:28 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
LBJ pressured people to have it called a Lyndon, but no luck there.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:28 PM on August 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Secret Life of Gravy: The whole idea that some guy is going to risk going to Federal Prison for 5 years just so his favored candidate will get an extra vote or two in an election that counts votes in the tens of millions is jaw-droppingly stupid.
Evidence that prison doesn't deter crime.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:31 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Evidence that prison doesn't deter crime.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:31 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
November ninth will be a great day to bring it up.
posted by Going To Maine at 8:27 PM on August 13 [+] [!]
This statement only makes sense if you think that the fate of the election is in any way affected by what pseudonyms on metafilter say.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:31 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 8:27 PM on August 13 [+] [!]
This statement only makes sense if you think that the fate of the election is in any way affected by what pseudonyms on metafilter say.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:31 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
> So now we have an Iman and his associate being gunned down in broad daylight in NYC.
Fuck. This is horrible.
Queens imam and his assistant shot to death by gunman in attack local Muslims blame on Donald Trump: 'His drama has created Islamophobia'
The 2016 Election Is Making Islamophobia The Worst It Has Ever Been. It’s been an especially harrowing year to be Muslim in America.
posted by homunculus at 8:32 PM on August 13, 2016 [11 favorites]
Fuck. This is horrible.
Queens imam and his assistant shot to death by gunman in attack local Muslims blame on Donald Trump: 'His drama has created Islamophobia'
The 2016 Election Is Making Islamophobia The Worst It Has Ever Been. It’s been an especially harrowing year to be Muslim in America.
posted by homunculus at 8:32 PM on August 13, 2016 [11 favorites]
Class-warfare-wise, it's a bit of a step backward from the Obamas, who came a little closer to working class than anyone since, what, Carter?He paid $1.65 million for his Chicago house. I don't think the Obamas were hurting for cash by the time they started running for the Senate.
posted by xyzzy at 8:33 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
Surely it's the reason a Johnson is called a Johnson
Why hasn't the Libertarian candidate made use of that?
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:35 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Why hasn't the Libertarian candidate made use of that?
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:35 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Because #notalljohnsons
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:36 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:36 PM on August 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
Surely our information about LBJ's dick comes mostly from that excellent conversation with his tailor, not from the Secret Service?
He needed an inch put in, other wise, it would cut 'em like riding a wire fence... right up to his bunghole [BELCH].
posted by Cold Lurkey at 8:37 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
He needed an inch put in, other wise, it would cut 'em like riding a wire fence... right up to his bunghole [BELCH].
posted by Cold Lurkey at 8:37 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
The whole idea that some guy is going to risk going to Federal Prison for 5 years just so his favored candidate will get an extra vote or two in an election that counts votes in the tens of millions is jaw-droppingly stupid.
Honestly, election fraud happens, but it's mostly people who don't know they're actually breaking the law. People who "help grandma vote", people who don't know they have to update their address when they move, etc.
posted by corb at 8:43 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
Honestly, election fraud happens, but it's mostly people who don't know they're actually breaking the law. People who "help grandma vote", people who don't know they have to update their address when they move, etc.
posted by corb at 8:43 PM on August 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
How should we reform the system if talking about this now is seen to delegitimize our candidate?
How about by talking about any one of the myriad other politicians enjoying similar privilege who AREN'T our candidate?
There are about five hundred current congressmen, and more former congressmen and women. There are three other former presidents who aren't related to Hilary. There are also former VICE presidents. Why not talk about them?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:43 PM on August 13, 2016 [15 favorites]
How about by talking about any one of the myriad other politicians enjoying similar privilege who AREN'T our candidate?
There are about five hundred current congressmen, and more former congressmen and women. There are three other former presidents who aren't related to Hilary. There are also former VICE presidents. Why not talk about them?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:43 PM on August 13, 2016 [15 favorites]
I don't think the Obamas were hurting for cash by the time they started running for the Senate.
They bought the Kenwood house in 2005, after the Senate election. The royalties from Dreams from My Father helped pay for it, and also helped the Obamas pay off the remainder of their student loans. Not working class in any way, but pretty typical middle-class professionals of their generation who had relatively expensive educations but hadn't taken the most lucrative career paths on offer.
posted by holgate at 8:43 PM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
They bought the Kenwood house in 2005, after the Senate election. The royalties from Dreams from My Father helped pay for it, and also helped the Obamas pay off the remainder of their student loans. Not working class in any way, but pretty typical middle-class professionals of their generation who had relatively expensive educations but hadn't taken the most lucrative career paths on offer.
posted by holgate at 8:43 PM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
Class-warfare-wise, it's a bit of a step backward from the Obamas, who came a little closer to working class than anyone since, what, Carter?
The Clintons had a net worth of about $700,000 when Bill was running in 1992. Obama's net worth was about $1.7 million in 2007. Carter had a net worth of $500,000 - $800,000 (sources differ). Ford's net worth, however, was lower - about $256,000 (though that was larger than Clinton's if you account for inflation).
To find a president with a lower (adjusted for inflation) net worth at the beginning of his presidency than Bill Clinton, you have to go back to Truman. If you are only looking at dollar figures without adjustment, it's Ford.
(None of which is really relevant to Hillary Clinton's current quite high net worth; I'm just interested in countering the narrative that the Clintons have always been party of the wealthy establishment.)
posted by Chanther at 8:48 PM on August 13, 2016 [33 favorites]
The Clintons had a net worth of about $700,000 when Bill was running in 1992. Obama's net worth was about $1.7 million in 2007. Carter had a net worth of $500,000 - $800,000 (sources differ). Ford's net worth, however, was lower - about $256,000 (though that was larger than Clinton's if you account for inflation).
To find a president with a lower (adjusted for inflation) net worth at the beginning of his presidency than Bill Clinton, you have to go back to Truman. If you are only looking at dollar figures without adjustment, it's Ford.
(None of which is really relevant to Hillary Clinton's current quite high net worth; I'm just interested in countering the narrative that the Clintons have always been party of the wealthy establishment.)
posted by Chanther at 8:48 PM on August 13, 2016 [33 favorites]
How about by talking about any one of the myriad other politicians enjoying similar privilege who AREN'T our candidate?
I've been doing that for years. This election has made things that some of us were talking about already into things not worth mentioning. Look, this only came up regarding Clinton because people were all "why care that a politician is wealthy?" And that only came up because people were talking about Clinton's taxes. And that only came about because she's running for president. For me it's just a matter of noting that yeah, once again it's two rich people competing for the most powerful position in the world. Even in that they're not similar, because Trump pretends to be a billionaire, but it's something I was thinking about just the same. It's notable because they're the most high profile politicians right now.
I've missed the vast majority of the 33,000+ comments on the election here, so I have no idea if there is still some long running fight about this. But it's not like I only just happened to discover populist ideas this year, despite what some people seem to be implying.
posted by teponaztli at 9:07 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
I've been doing that for years. This election has made things that some of us were talking about already into things not worth mentioning. Look, this only came up regarding Clinton because people were all "why care that a politician is wealthy?" And that only came up because people were talking about Clinton's taxes. And that only came about because she's running for president. For me it's just a matter of noting that yeah, once again it's two rich people competing for the most powerful position in the world. Even in that they're not similar, because Trump pretends to be a billionaire, but it's something I was thinking about just the same. It's notable because they're the most high profile politicians right now.
I've missed the vast majority of the 33,000+ comments on the election here, so I have no idea if there is still some long running fight about this. But it's not like I only just happened to discover populist ideas this year, despite what some people seem to be implying.
posted by teponaztli at 9:07 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
Please note: I implied that Trump is an actual politician in my last comment, and I regret my error.
posted by teponaztli at 9:16 PM on August 13, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by teponaztli at 9:16 PM on August 13, 2016 [31 favorites]
For all you psephologists out there, the Princeton Election Consortium now has an app that will "provide you with all the key outputs on our calculations, updated five times a day: the EV snapshot, current Senate and House estimates, and the Meta-Margins. The app will link back to this website so you can get full site content."
Search on StatX in the App Store/Google Play.
posted by vac2003 at 9:16 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Search on StatX in the App Store/Google Play.
posted by vac2003 at 9:16 PM on August 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
2. The Trump campaign can't tell the difference between "great" and "crap" when it comes to political operatives.
I'm somewhat of a student of Narcissism, not entirely by choice, and this makes perfect sense to me.
Trump's entire campaign is based on narcissism. In Trump's world, Donald Trump is the greatest person in the world. When that's your worldview, how do you choose "the best and brightest"? That's right, whoever has the most nice things to say about Donald Trump.
So he is definitely hiring "the best people", but his definition of "best" is basically "biggest fan".
This would be the equivalent of the New York Yankees needing a new Pitcher or Head Coach, and choosing to hire whoever cheered the loudest in the stands at the game.
posted by mmoncur at 9:20 PM on August 13, 2016 [22 favorites]
I'm somewhat of a student of Narcissism, not entirely by choice, and this makes perfect sense to me.
Trump's entire campaign is based on narcissism. In Trump's world, Donald Trump is the greatest person in the world. When that's your worldview, how do you choose "the best and brightest"? That's right, whoever has the most nice things to say about Donald Trump.
So he is definitely hiring "the best people", but his definition of "best" is basically "biggest fan".
This would be the equivalent of the New York Yankees needing a new Pitcher or Head Coach, and choosing to hire whoever cheered the loudest in the stands at the game.
posted by mmoncur at 9:20 PM on August 13, 2016 [22 favorites]
He even said we would win so much that people would beg him to return them to poverty(!)
YOU PEOPLE
posted by petebest at 9:22 PM on August 13, 2016
YOU PEOPLE
posted by petebest at 9:22 PM on August 13, 2016
I'm impressed that in 800+ comments on this thread, nobody's brought up that the Clintons' son-in-law cofounded a hedge fund and yet they're keeping their cash in the same no-frills Vanguard fund as me.
I mean, sheesh, if one of my relatives were a hedge fund manager you can bet my dough would be in that hedge fund making me returns hand-over-fist, not languishing in some anonymous index fund. Good for them for investing like regular Americans who happen to have some spare change in the bank, not like the extremely wealthy and well-connected high achievers they actually are.
posted by the marble index at 9:42 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
I mean, sheesh, if one of my relatives were a hedge fund manager you can bet my dough would be in that hedge fund making me returns hand-over-fist, not languishing in some anonymous index fund. Good for them for investing like regular Americans who happen to have some spare change in the bank, not like the extremely wealthy and well-connected high achievers they actually are.
posted by the marble index at 9:42 PM on August 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
I hope, after the election is over, there's a Barbara Walters special where she talks to Cruz, Bush, and Rubio about the election and the primary.
Barbara: "He said a lot of mean things about each of you."
Ted, Jeb, and Marco grasp each other by the hand.
Ted: "Yes, he did."
Barbara: "How did that make you feel, up there on that stage?"
Ted: "I wanted to lash out, but I couldn't."
Barbara: "Why not?"
Ted: "Because the party, the unity. We weren't allowed to be ourselves. But he was."
posted by perhapses at 9:43 PM on August 13, 2016 [26 favorites]
Barbara: "He said a lot of mean things about each of you."
Ted, Jeb, and Marco grasp each other by the hand.
Ted: "Yes, he did."
Barbara: "How did that make you feel, up there on that stage?"
Ted: "I wanted to lash out, but I couldn't."
Barbara: "Why not?"
Ted: "Because the party, the unity. We weren't allowed to be ourselves. But he was."
posted by perhapses at 9:43 PM on August 13, 2016 [26 favorites]
the Clintons' son-in-law cofounded a hedge fund and yet they're keeping their cash in the same no-frills Vanguard fund as me.
Right, that's why they're rich.
posted by bongo_x at 9:44 PM on August 13, 2016 [24 favorites]
Right, that's why they're rich.
posted by bongo_x at 9:44 PM on August 13, 2016 [24 favorites]
For me it's just a matter of noting that yeah, once again it's two rich people competing for the most powerful position in the world.
I mostly want to refer you back to one_bean.
If the issue is 'only rich people seem to be able to reach the office of President,' (which is certainly problematic on a number of levels, yes), then it's better to focus on 'why is that?' followed closely by 'what could we do to establish a more level playing field for worthy candidates who cannot presently compete?'
posted by mordax at 9:48 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
I mostly want to refer you back to one_bean.
If the issue is 'only rich people seem to be able to reach the office of President,' (which is certainly problematic on a number of levels, yes), then it's better to focus on 'why is that?' followed closely by 'what could we do to establish a more level playing field for worthy candidates who cannot presently compete?'
posted by mordax at 9:48 PM on August 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
Interesting anecdata from my husband: He says the one really die-hard Trump supporter he knows also says he "never votes" and doesn't intend to start anytime soon. I think there are a not-insignificant portion of the people Trump appeals to who are similarly hostile to the entire election process.
Also, re: the Goldman Sachs thing: I spent one summer when I was in college working for an investment banker friend of my parents. (It was miserable.) He explained to me that he could afford to throw a whole lot of money into client recruitment via paying me, putting on expensive dinners, etc, because it was financially worth it if he only got ONE large client out of several months of similar expenses. Attracting people with money is the single most important thing to investment people, so yeah, spending $200,000 once to attract a group of wealthy people is NOTHING compared to what the company can make off of people for years and years once they become clients.
posted by threeturtles at 9:51 PM on August 13, 2016 [18 favorites]
Also, re: the Goldman Sachs thing: I spent one summer when I was in college working for an investment banker friend of my parents. (It was miserable.) He explained to me that he could afford to throw a whole lot of money into client recruitment via paying me, putting on expensive dinners, etc, because it was financially worth it if he only got ONE large client out of several months of similar expenses. Attracting people with money is the single most important thing to investment people, so yeah, spending $200,000 once to attract a group of wealthy people is NOTHING compared to what the company can make off of people for years and years once they become clients.
posted by threeturtles at 9:51 PM on August 13, 2016 [18 favorites]
Being president these days is like being a big league sportster. You basically have to retire and do stuff that might be lucrative in its own way (books, speaking) but you're not allowed to have a political profile other than "former president".
Hey, Jordan retired, joined MLB and then went back to pro hoops. It's possible But It is strange that Presidents after FDR have not sought out political positions after their time in the Oval was done with. You get the sense that it's supposed to be beneath the dignity of a President to get back into the ring again. But Carter, at least, has not shied away from doing more than just writing books and getting paid for speeches. And if we look at the presidency since LBJ, who died soon after leaving office, Nixon was disgraced, Ford was inept, Reagan was old as dirt, so that rules them out of a post-presidential political life. Carter seemed to think that work on human rights could be best done in the private sector (and anyway when you don't get the second term it seems like a repudiation of your political aspirations), Bush likely didn't want to overshadow his two very ambitious sons, Bush II was not exactly disgraced, but unpopular as hell. But Bill Clinton has been very active, campaigning on behalf of his wife and doing whatever it is their foundation does. There was constant talk in the 00s that he might try and get himself elected UN Secretary. But in a way, his political options were somewhat limited by Hillary, whose turn to shine they seem to have decided it was (it wasn't like they were going to elect *two* Clintons Senator from NY, and the former president doesn't slum it in the House. Or go back to being a Governor, where you don't even get to bomb brown people (usually, I'm looking at you Philadelphia). Senate, Supreme Court, or some international body like the UN are the only options that make sense).
I know your point was about rationalizing the way the WJC worked fast to turn his political clout into cash post-Presidency, but I started to think this out a bit because I wonder what Obama's plans are for the many, many years he has ahead of him. I hope something better than creating a foundation, and raking in the speaking fees. Run for Senate again, you crazy diamond. (Or bring forth the grand globalist one world gov't conspiracy and rule as emperor of the planet).
posted by dis_integration at 10:07 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
Hey, Jordan retired, joined MLB and then went back to pro hoops. It's possible But It is strange that Presidents after FDR have not sought out political positions after their time in the Oval was done with. You get the sense that it's supposed to be beneath the dignity of a President to get back into the ring again. But Carter, at least, has not shied away from doing more than just writing books and getting paid for speeches. And if we look at the presidency since LBJ, who died soon after leaving office, Nixon was disgraced, Ford was inept, Reagan was old as dirt, so that rules them out of a post-presidential political life. Carter seemed to think that work on human rights could be best done in the private sector (and anyway when you don't get the second term it seems like a repudiation of your political aspirations), Bush likely didn't want to overshadow his two very ambitious sons, Bush II was not exactly disgraced, but unpopular as hell. But Bill Clinton has been very active, campaigning on behalf of his wife and doing whatever it is their foundation does. There was constant talk in the 00s that he might try and get himself elected UN Secretary. But in a way, his political options were somewhat limited by Hillary, whose turn to shine they seem to have decided it was (it wasn't like they were going to elect *two* Clintons Senator from NY, and the former president doesn't slum it in the House. Or go back to being a Governor, where you don't even get to bomb brown people (usually, I'm looking at you Philadelphia). Senate, Supreme Court, or some international body like the UN are the only options that make sense).
I know your point was about rationalizing the way the WJC worked fast to turn his political clout into cash post-Presidency, but I started to think this out a bit because I wonder what Obama's plans are for the many, many years he has ahead of him. I hope something better than creating a foundation, and raking in the speaking fees. Run for Senate again, you crazy diamond. (Or bring forth the grand globalist one world gov't conspiracy and rule as emperor of the planet).
posted by dis_integration at 10:07 PM on August 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
Obama's second act will hopefully be Supreme Court Justice Barack Obama.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:11 PM on August 13, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:11 PM on August 13, 2016 [20 favorites]
I think Obama's current plan is to spend the two years after his Presidency in DC as a stay at home dad while his younger daughter finishes High School. I really hope he follows through on the plan because it would set a really great example.
posted by humanfont at 10:15 PM on August 13, 2016 [45 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 10:15 PM on August 13, 2016 [45 favorites]
Doing whatever it is their foundation does.
All of the information about the Clinton Global Initiative is on their website and it does not involve speaker fees. It does, however involve initiatives to allow women and girls greater access to education, long term development in Haiti including agriculture and health access, global access to health initiatives including plans to avoid duplication of efforts.
That is what Bill spends his time on, actually.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:23 PM on August 13, 2016 [44 favorites]
All of the information about the Clinton Global Initiative is on their website and it does not involve speaker fees. It does, however involve initiatives to allow women and girls greater access to education, long term development in Haiti including agriculture and health access, global access to health initiatives including plans to avoid duplication of efforts.
That is what Bill spends his time on, actually.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:23 PM on August 13, 2016 [44 favorites]
In prime time, Sean Hannity carries out a Clinton medical ‘investigation’
The Real Meaning of All Those Right-Wing Conspiracy Theories About Hillary’s Health: The lunatic right is desperate for a deus ex machina.
posted by homunculus at 10:37 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Real Meaning of All Those Right-Wing Conspiracy Theories About Hillary’s Health: The lunatic right is desperate for a deus ex machina.
posted by homunculus at 10:37 PM on August 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's possible But It is strange that Presidents after FDR have not sought out political positions after their time in the Oval was done with. You get the sense that it's supposed to be beneath the dignity of a President to get back into the ring again
FDR is a super weird cutoff for what presidents have done after leaving office - and not just because he died before his term ended. There have been only three presidents who held elective office after being president, the last being Andrew Johnson in 1874. Taft was the only Supreme Court Justice. Carter is universally held to have reinvented the modern post-presidency, partly because these days presidents frequently live so much longer after they're done. Running for elective office is beneath their dignity because they can do so much more elsewhere, especially given the absolute inability of Congress to pass meaningful legislation. It's a truism that private organizations wield far more power these days than individual politicians. Why would a former President decide their time was best spent in the (now earmark-less) Senate when they can raise hundreds of millions of dollars to be spent on whatever their pet projects are?
posted by one_bean at 10:37 PM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
FDR is a super weird cutoff for what presidents have done after leaving office - and not just because he died before his term ended. There have been only three presidents who held elective office after being president, the last being Andrew Johnson in 1874. Taft was the only Supreme Court Justice. Carter is universally held to have reinvented the modern post-presidency, partly because these days presidents frequently live so much longer after they're done. Running for elective office is beneath their dignity because they can do so much more elsewhere, especially given the absolute inability of Congress to pass meaningful legislation. It's a truism that private organizations wield far more power these days than individual politicians. Why would a former President decide their time was best spent in the (now earmark-less) Senate when they can raise hundreds of millions of dollars to be spent on whatever their pet projects are?
posted by one_bean at 10:37 PM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
The Real Meaning of All Those Right-Wing Conspiracy Theories About Hillary’s Health:
Three words that apply to almost all Trumpy Claims and Conspiracy Theories: PROJECTION. PROJECTION. PROJECTION.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:44 PM on August 13, 2016 [15 favorites]
Three words that apply to almost all Trumpy Claims and Conspiracy Theories: PROJECTION. PROJECTION. PROJECTION.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:44 PM on August 13, 2016 [15 favorites]
Personally, I think it's admirable that FOX News has a tuition reimbursement program that pays for sending indigent talk radio hosts to Hollywood Upstairs Medical College. It would be unfair to saddle Sean Hannity with all those student loans.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:02 PM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:02 PM on August 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
Obama's second act will hopefully be Supreme Court Justice Barack Obama.
I cynically wonder if we'd find Justice Obama not left enough.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:03 PM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
I cynically wonder if we'd find Justice Obama not left enough.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:03 PM on August 13, 2016 [13 favorites]
Depends on who he replaces.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:18 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:18 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
> I cynically wonder if we'd find Justice Obama not left enough.
Hypothetical Justice Obama won't have to compromise opinions to get it past an obstructionist Congress or have to fill an opinion with pork-barrel projects to be able to issue it or a later one.
Wether you choose to be cynical or hopeful about that fact is up to you.
posted by fragmede at 12:33 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Hypothetical Justice Obama won't have to compromise opinions to get it past an obstructionist Congress or have to fill an opinion with pork-barrel projects to be able to issue it or a later one.
Wether you choose to be cynical or hopeful about that fact is up to you.
posted by fragmede at 12:33 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
I cynically wonder if we'd find Justice Obama not left enough.
Heh. To be fair, his stances on warrantless wiretapping and the creeping security-state overall would frustrate many of us, assuming he didn't leave them buried in the West Wing bunker with other compromises of cooperation.
posted by rokusan at 1:04 AM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Heh. To be fair, his stances on warrantless wiretapping and the creeping security-state overall would frustrate many of us, assuming he didn't leave them buried in the West Wing bunker with other compromises of cooperation.
posted by rokusan at 1:04 AM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
There remains no evidence that the Imam and his companion shot in Queens were targeted for their faith, other than the sentiments of an angry community. It's entirely possible it was a hate crime, but that is in no way officially confirmed and the only evidence for it is that the victims were Muslim (and the shooter reportedly Hispanic, which as we all know is not ... typical of Trump acolytes).
It's understandable why the traumatized community might feel this way, and there's no doubt that Trump is fomenting Islamophobia. But it actually hurts the many true instances of that point if we leap into a fray of calling this a hate crime and it turns out to be a robbery or random or internal to the community.
Ok, just cautioning against narrativizing the incident as "a hate crime" before determinative facts are known. I suspect it has very high priority from NYPD and we will hear more soon.
posted by spitbull at 1:36 AM on August 14, 2016 [13 favorites]
It's understandable why the traumatized community might feel this way, and there's no doubt that Trump is fomenting Islamophobia. But it actually hurts the many true instances of that point if we leap into a fray of calling this a hate crime and it turns out to be a robbery or random or internal to the community.
Ok, just cautioning against narrativizing the incident as "a hate crime" before determinative facts are known. I suspect it has very high priority from NYPD and we will hear more soon.
posted by spitbull at 1:36 AM on August 14, 2016 [13 favorites]
Making speeches and writing books seems a fairly innocuous way for the Clintons to leverage their position to make money. As a comparison, Tony Blair (as well as being paid a lot of money for speaking) offers consultancy services to, among others, oil companies and dictatorships and oil companies run by dictatorships. And I’m sure there are lots of companies who would pay handsomely to be able to list either of the Clintons as board members, even if they only turned up to two meetings a year.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 2:53 AM on August 14, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 2:53 AM on August 14, 2016 [16 favorites]
I get that is is a natural subject to talk about now because Hillary Clinton has just released last year's tax returns. But it's so frustrating to me that we're not going to get the opportunity to discuss Trump's. Just as we discuss Hillary's record as senator and Sec. State and First Lady, but Trump has no record. Just as we discuss Hillay's emails, and the DNC's, but Trump's and the RNC's private communications remain private. Just as we know all the sordid details of the Clinton's marital problems, but Trump's divorces and their causes are none of our business.
It is just so unfair. Hillary Clinton is certainly flawed, and Bill even more so. It's true that Hillary has taken advantage of privileges most people are never afforded and has made compromises she shouldn't have made, including some she admits she regrets. It's true that she has been petty at times and has traded on her relationships with powerful people to help her cause at other times. It's fair game to talk about these things in an election. They are issues of substance.
But with Trump there is nothing of substance to talk about. Just the sideshow if all the horrible things he says. And his supporters actually use this as a defense! "Trump says mean things, but Hillary Clinton has actually done all this bad stuff!" We have no idea what Trump's done.
It's also frustrating to me because I don't know which of us could withstand the kind of scrutiny Hillary Clinton has been under, except maybe hermit monks. Honestly who here would have nothing to be ashamed of if their whole tax history were public, if all their employee-reviews at all their jobs were public, and so were the emails they wrote at those jobs, if even the fights they had with their SO were public. Who here would not be embarrassed? Anyone over 30? Anyone whose achievements have had more impact on the world than one of those hermit-monks?
Hillary Clinton is flawed, for sure. But her flaws have been placed under a magnifying glass in a way yours and mine have not, and in a way even most her poltical opponents' are not. I guess I'm just pleading for people to keep that in mind as they judge her for those flaws.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:37 AM on August 14, 2016 [133 favorites]
It is just so unfair. Hillary Clinton is certainly flawed, and Bill even more so. It's true that Hillary has taken advantage of privileges most people are never afforded and has made compromises she shouldn't have made, including some she admits she regrets. It's true that she has been petty at times and has traded on her relationships with powerful people to help her cause at other times. It's fair game to talk about these things in an election. They are issues of substance.
But with Trump there is nothing of substance to talk about. Just the sideshow if all the horrible things he says. And his supporters actually use this as a defense! "Trump says mean things, but Hillary Clinton has actually done all this bad stuff!" We have no idea what Trump's done.
It's also frustrating to me because I don't know which of us could withstand the kind of scrutiny Hillary Clinton has been under, except maybe hermit monks. Honestly who here would have nothing to be ashamed of if their whole tax history were public, if all their employee-reviews at all their jobs were public, and so were the emails they wrote at those jobs, if even the fights they had with their SO were public. Who here would not be embarrassed? Anyone over 30? Anyone whose achievements have had more impact on the world than one of those hermit-monks?
Hillary Clinton is flawed, for sure. But her flaws have been placed under a magnifying glass in a way yours and mine have not, and in a way even most her poltical opponents' are not. I guess I'm just pleading for people to keep that in mind as they judge her for those flaws.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:37 AM on August 14, 2016 [133 favorites]
I guess I'm just pleading for people to keep that in mind as they judge her for those flaws.
They haven't for thirty years so I doubt they will now.
Back in the day it was just a misogynist right terrified of an ambitious, accomplished woman.
Now it's both the left and the right, but it's still the same bullshit it was in 1992, just from a different (or, rather, additional) direction.
posted by dersins at 4:58 AM on August 14, 2016 [22 favorites]
They haven't for thirty years so I doubt they will now.
Back in the day it was just a misogynist right terrified of an ambitious, accomplished woman.
Now it's both the left and the right, but it's still the same bullshit it was in 1992, just from a different (or, rather, additional) direction.
posted by dersins at 4:58 AM on August 14, 2016 [22 favorites]
I just watched a fb friend do a serious reeducation drive wherein she explained to the younglings what the 90s were really like. Because yo people under 30 don't really remember them and don't understand the context that the Clintons were walking into, all they know is that their entire lives there's been something wrong with Hillary Clinton. The fact that the left had been so eagerly carrying this narrative is...not surprising to me at all, but disappointing nonetheless. But we do love nothing more than a purity test (calibrated to the sociopolitical context of today's date, no matter what decision we're testing or when it took place) and circular firing squad, and I'm sure someone on the Right noticed this and realized how easily they could create a bipartisan narrative of Something Is Wrong With Hillary Clinton.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:08 AM on August 14, 2016 [64 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:08 AM on August 14, 2016 [64 favorites]
OnceUponATime's point is an excellent one and worth bearing in mind. Since entering politics under her own banner, Hillary has been under more and closer scrutiny than pretty much any human being in on the planet that I can think of, save perhaps post-2008 Barack Obama. She is flawed. She has made mistakes. But if you take away the magnifying glass, and compare her to her peers and colleagues, they are really quite pedestrian and everyday.
They only look so huge because of a decades-long effort by her opponents, who have been trying to prevent her upcoming presidency by any means necessary ever since it became obvious that she was gunning for the Oval Office. When you criticize her, be careful that you are not unwittingly regurgitating a talking point generated during this decades-long smear campaign. No, she is not perfect, but that is a ridiculous standard by which to judge any person. Presidents, and presidential candidates, are still human after all.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:17 AM on August 14, 2016 [19 favorites]
They only look so huge because of a decades-long effort by her opponents, who have been trying to prevent her upcoming presidency by any means necessary ever since it became obvious that she was gunning for the Oval Office. When you criticize her, be careful that you are not unwittingly regurgitating a talking point generated during this decades-long smear campaign. No, she is not perfect, but that is a ridiculous standard by which to judge any person. Presidents, and presidential candidates, are still human after all.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:17 AM on August 14, 2016 [19 favorites]
Truth is stranger than fiction, and so far things have been quite strange, so I'd bet a bit of creative accounting isn't the worst of things in his tax return. In fact, rampant tin-foil hat conspiracy theories about what's on his tax returns might goad him into releasing them, just to prove he isn't being paid by the Clintons to run, or that he doesn't own property in Moscow and is being blackmailed by Putin, or that he actually has to pay other people to put his name on all things Trump, and the only thing he really knows how to do is spend more and more of daddies money to cover for his own mistakes.
posted by fragmede at 5:18 AM on August 14, 2016
posted by fragmede at 5:18 AM on August 14, 2016
Mod note: A few comments deleted. Let's not completely derail and jump directly into fighting with each other about the murder of the NYC Imam and friend, especially when we have almost no info yet.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:25 AM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 5:25 AM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
We're not going to see Trump's tax returns for the same reason magicians don't reveal how their tricks are done. If he posts his returns, he'll have a much harder time pulling real estate and development cons in the future, and he'll have to face all the investors he's swindled in the past to explain himself. He can't afford to have that truth out there. Pay no attention to the tax returns behind the curtain!
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:30 AM on August 14, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:30 AM on August 14, 2016 [12 favorites]
Piece on Politico on how the Tea Party was killed by canny PACs operating what were basically pyramid schemes - turns out that older, low-information people are natural marks for scamming. Well, who knew that, eh?
It also turns out that the 'Clinton Foundation only spent 10 percent of its money on doing what it claimed' is - guess what - yet more projection.
posted by Devonian at 5:39 AM on August 14, 2016 [26 favorites]
It also turns out that the 'Clinton Foundation only spent 10 percent of its money on doing what it claimed' is - guess what - yet more projection.
posted by Devonian at 5:39 AM on August 14, 2016 [26 favorites]
I'm sure the delay in Trump releasing his tax returns is based on his fear of us finding out he's been getting by on microdonations from Spy magazine this whole time.
posted by Sonny Jim at 5:46 AM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Sonny Jim at 5:46 AM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
One thing that bugs me about class inequality right now and the presidency is that every president since Bill Clinton has gone to either Harvard or Yale, or both. At least in the 60s, 70s & 80s, before inequality took off, there was some mixing it up (LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan).
I'm OBVIOUSLY still voting for Clinton even though she went to Yale, and I'm not singling her out, but this has been bugging me for a while. I mean, what are we, the UK where everyone in power has gone to either Oxford or Cambridge? It kind of sounds like I'm joking, but I do think it indicates a real problem.
posted by maggiemaggie at 6:06 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm OBVIOUSLY still voting for Clinton even though she went to Yale, and I'm not singling her out, but this has been bugging me for a while. I mean, what are we, the UK where everyone in power has gone to either Oxford or Cambridge? It kind of sounds like I'm joking, but I do think it indicates a real problem.
posted by maggiemaggie at 6:06 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
> "... every president since Bill Clinton has gone to either Harvard or Yale, or both."
That's not actually a lot of presidents.
posted by kyrademon at 6:20 AM on August 14, 2016 [31 favorites]
That's not actually a lot of presidents.
posted by kyrademon at 6:20 AM on August 14, 2016 [31 favorites]
I'm OBVIOUSLY still voting for Clinton even though she went to Yale
She went to Wellesley undergrad and then Yale Law, no?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:22 AM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
She went to Wellesley undergrad and then Yale Law, no?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:22 AM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
Two great articles to read this morning:
How We Killed the Tea Party
Greedy PACs drained the movement with endless pleas for money to support “conservative” causes and candidates. I worked for one of them. But Tea Party ideas live on.
Is Betsy McCaughey Too Perfect a Match for Donald Trump?
The candidate's new economic adviser is not above trashing her team to get ahead.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:26 AM on August 14, 2016 [19 favorites]
How We Killed the Tea Party
Greedy PACs drained the movement with endless pleas for money to support “conservative” causes and candidates. I worked for one of them. But Tea Party ideas live on.
In a half decade, the spontaneous uprising that shook official Washington degenerated into a form of pyramid scheme that transferred tens of millions of dollars from rural, poorer Southerners and Midwesterners to bicoastal political operatives.It is what we have been saying about the Republican Party-- that their anti-fact, anti-science, anti-logic leanings make them vulnerable to pyramid schemes and MLM. And the Tea Party Patriots turned out to be easy prey.
What began as an organic, policy-driven grass-roots movement was drained of its vitality and resources by national political action committees that dunned the movement’s true believers endlessly for money to support its candidates and causes. The PACs used that money first to enrich themselves and their vendors and then deployed most of the rest to search for more “prospects.” In Tea Party world, that meant mostly older, technologically unsavvy people willing to divulge personal information through “petitions”—which only made them prey to further attempts to lighten their wallets for what they believed was a good cause. While the solicitations continue, the audience has greatly diminished because of a lack of policy results and changing political winds.
Is Betsy McCaughey Too Perfect a Match for Donald Trump?
The candidate's new economic adviser is not above trashing her team to get ahead.
In his scramble to get some estrogen into the mix, Trump signed on Betsy McCaughey. A former lieutenant governor of New York, McCaughey (pronounced “McCoy”) is a veteran fixture among the conservative think-tank set. For decades, her specialty has been fighting against health-care reform—Hillarycare in the 1990s and Obamacare more recently. (She is the author of the book, Beating Obamacare.)She's a lying, back-stabbing narcissist. She and Trump will be a painfully perfect fit.
McCaughey’s fierce opposition to the ACA does not, of course, distinguish her from legions of other conservative wonks and activists. What does make her special, however, is McCaughey’s well-earned reputation—across the political spectrum—as one of the most dishonest, shameless, and irresponsible conservative thinkers on the scene today. Plus, she’s a famously narcissistic, self-promoting drama queen. In 2009, I wrote a long profile [link goes to New Republic] exploring some of the highlights, and lowlights, of McCaughey’s soap-operatic career. In many, many ways, she should make a glorious fit for Trump World—but not such a great choice for America.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:26 AM on August 14, 2016 [19 favorites]
> "... every president since Bill Clinton has gone to either Harvard or Yale, or both."
Bush I also.
posted by octothorpe at 6:33 AM on August 14, 2016
Bush I also.
posted by octothorpe at 6:33 AM on August 14, 2016
She went to Wellesley undergrad and then Yale Law, no?
I'm including Yale Law, Harvard Law as part of the package. Obama went to Occidental, then Columbia, then Harvard Law.
It's not a lot of presidents, sure, but it's 24 years, so there are young people of voting who've never known a president not associated with Harvard or Yale.
So it doesn't bother anyone else, I guess. It just seems another indication of how deeply inequality has taken hold.
posted by maggiemaggie at 6:34 AM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm including Yale Law, Harvard Law as part of the package. Obama went to Occidental, then Columbia, then Harvard Law.
It's not a lot of presidents, sure, but it's 24 years, so there are young people of voting who've never known a president not associated with Harvard or Yale.
So it doesn't bother anyone else, I guess. It just seems another indication of how deeply inequality has taken hold.
posted by maggiemaggie at 6:34 AM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
every president since Bill Clinton has gone to either Harvard or Yale, or both
Bill Clinton went to Georgetown on a scholarship and worked part-time jobs, got a Rhodes scholarship, and then had a scholarship to Yale Law. Hillary Clinton got a scholarship to Wellesley (where she was valedictorian of her graduating class) and got into Yale Law on merit at a time when admission to an Ivy League law school was an uncommon thing for women. Barack Obama got into Harvard Law on merit, not because of his family. The fact that the recent Democratic presidents and the next likely Democratic president went to elite schools isn't a mark against them, it's an indication that yes, in fact, ability and hard work will open doors for you (in contrast, the Republicans, party of "self-reliance", have had the two Bushes, who were legacies at Yale, McCain, who got into Annapolis because his father and grandfather were admirals, and Romney, whose father was a state governor and auto industry executive).
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 6:34 AM on August 14, 2016 [123 favorites]
Bill Clinton went to Georgetown on a scholarship and worked part-time jobs, got a Rhodes scholarship, and then had a scholarship to Yale Law. Hillary Clinton got a scholarship to Wellesley (where she was valedictorian of her graduating class) and got into Yale Law on merit at a time when admission to an Ivy League law school was an uncommon thing for women. Barack Obama got into Harvard Law on merit, not because of his family. The fact that the recent Democratic presidents and the next likely Democratic president went to elite schools isn't a mark against them, it's an indication that yes, in fact, ability and hard work will open doors for you (in contrast, the Republicans, party of "self-reliance", have had the two Bushes, who were legacies at Yale, McCain, who got into Annapolis because his father and grandfather were admirals, and Romney, whose father was a state governor and auto industry executive).
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 6:34 AM on August 14, 2016 [123 favorites]
I brought this over from the previous thread in case you missed it like I did.
Jon Stewart gave Betsy McCaughey such an ass kicking on The Daily Show back in 2009 they put the entire extended interview up on their site: Part 1, Part 2
posted by PenDevil at 4:30 PM on August 11
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:36 AM on August 14, 2016 [25 favorites]
Jon Stewart gave Betsy McCaughey such an ass kicking on The Daily Show back in 2009 they put the entire extended interview up on their site: Part 1, Part 2
posted by PenDevil at 4:30 PM on August 11
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:36 AM on August 14, 2016 [25 favorites]
I see someone gave Donald his phone this morning.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:41 AM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:41 AM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
That narrative about the death of the Tea Party seems to perpetuate the myth that it was a "spontaneous, grassroots" effort rather than the intentional creation of the right-wing media and ultra-conservative plutocrats. The Tea Party was a con job from start to finish, and it's no surprise that as soon as it started to lose traction politically, it was sucked dry and spat out by the very forces that created it.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:43 AM on August 14, 2016 [40 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:43 AM on August 14, 2016 [40 favorites]
I see someone gave Donald his phone this morning.
Ha, was just posting the same thing. This and several more so far:
"If the disgusting and corrupt media covered me honestly and didn't put false meaning into the words I say, I would be beating Hillary by 20%"
Yeah, quoting you is so unfair.
posted by chris24 at 6:44 AM on August 14, 2016 [26 favorites]
Ha, was just posting the same thing. This and several more so far:
"If the disgusting and corrupt media covered me honestly and didn't put false meaning into the words I say, I would be beating Hillary by 20%"
Yeah, quoting you is so unfair.
posted by chris24 at 6:44 AM on August 14, 2016 [26 favorites]
I don't really buy that the Tea Party is no longer either a thing, either. Does Dave Brat not still stalk the earth? If any "moderate" Republucans still exist do they not quake in fear at being primaried by similar weirdos? and it's not like Trump isn't basically the same deal, right down to the scamminess.
posted by Artw at 6:50 AM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:50 AM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
Jon Stewart gave Betsy McCaughey such an ass kicking on The Daily Show back in 2009 they put the entire extended interview up on their site: Part 1, Part 2
Jon Stewart being the only other person than Betsy McCaughey to read the ACA in its entirety.
posted by Talez at 6:53 AM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Jon Stewart being the only other person than Betsy McCaughey to read the ACA in its entirety.
posted by Talez at 6:53 AM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Fabulous theater journalist Carey Purcell discusses her time working at TRUMP magazine: "I Survived ‘Trump’ Magazine—Barely." [real]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:53 AM on August 14, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:53 AM on August 14, 2016 [9 favorites]
Devonian, that Jossey piece in Politico is fantastic, even it only confirms what anyone could see from outside.
Which sort of makes a side point though -- this sort of high level ideological grift certainly exists on the left and targets, similarly, elderly, less well educated, lower income demographics with similarly alarmist appeals dependent on similar lack of technological savvy or cultural capital. It's harder for those on the left to see or admit it, just like the Tea Party marks with their victimization. But anyone with an elderly liberal relative knows what I mean. And large liberal enterprises are fairly dependent on (for example) appeals through petition-generated leads. Many are similarly ineffectual and seemingly devoted to their own propagation rather than achievable policy goals.
It's a business model. And it corrupts politics by inducing cynicism even in the face of actual popular motivation to move the levers of power.
posted by spitbull at 6:53 AM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Which sort of makes a side point though -- this sort of high level ideological grift certainly exists on the left and targets, similarly, elderly, less well educated, lower income demographics with similarly alarmist appeals dependent on similar lack of technological savvy or cultural capital. It's harder for those on the left to see or admit it, just like the Tea Party marks with their victimization. But anyone with an elderly liberal relative knows what I mean. And large liberal enterprises are fairly dependent on (for example) appeals through petition-generated leads. Many are similarly ineffectual and seemingly devoted to their own propagation rather than achievable policy goals.
It's a business model. And it corrupts politics by inducing cynicism even in the face of actual popular motivation to move the levers of power.
posted by spitbull at 6:53 AM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
ThePinkSuperhero: "Fabulous theater journalist Carey Purcell discusses her time working at TRUMP magazine: "I Survived ‘Trump’ Magazine—Barely." [real]"
I love the headline on the magazine on the left: "Bubble? What Bubble? Real Estate Tips From Trump U."
posted by octothorpe at 6:58 AM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
I love the headline on the magazine on the left: "Bubble? What Bubble? Real Estate Tips From Trump U."
posted by octothorpe at 6:58 AM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
Beating Hillary by 20%? Jesus. The biggest freaking landslide in recent memory was still just 8 or 9 points separated in the national popular vote. He is just so incredibly ignorant and arrogant, two things that I cannot abide when combined.
posted by xyzzy at 7:01 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 7:01 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm just suprised by the implication that he's not already beating her by 20%.
posted by Artw at 7:02 AM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:02 AM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
I don't really buy that the Tea Party is no longer either a thing, either.
Yes, I was skeptical of that. And this line: "In a half decade, the spontaneous uprising that shook official Washington degenerated into a form of pyramid scheme" cracked me up. Half a decade...oh you mean five years?
But the bottom line is this
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:05 AM on August 14, 2016 [12 favorites]
Yes, I was skeptical of that. And this line: "In a half decade, the spontaneous uprising that shook official Washington degenerated into a form of pyramid scheme" cracked me up. Half a decade...oh you mean five years?
But the bottom line is this
POLITICO last year reviewed the activity of 33 conservative PACs for the 2014 cycle. Combined, they raked in $43 million dollars, according to the POLITICO report. Of that, $39.5 million went to overhead including $6 million to entities owned by PAC operators; candidates got $3 million.That's got to have a devastating effect on the election of Tea Partiers. Think if that money (most of it small, individual donations) was donated directly to the candidates the outcome of those elections might have been very different.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:05 AM on August 14, 2016 [12 favorites]
So it doesn't bother anyone else, I guess. It just seems another indication of how deeply inequality has taken hold.
Bullshit. Both the Clintons and Obama went to those schools as graduate students. There is a lot of inequality in undergraduate admissions but much less so in graduate admissions. If you do really well as an undergrad and are really smart you can get into a top grad program. Who your parents are and where you grew up matter a lot less. Ask me how I know.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 7:09 AM on August 14, 2016 [68 favorites]
Bullshit. Both the Clintons and Obama went to those schools as graduate students. There is a lot of inequality in undergraduate admissions but much less so in graduate admissions. If you do really well as an undergrad and are really smart you can get into a top grad program. Who your parents are and where you grew up matter a lot less. Ask me how I know.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 7:09 AM on August 14, 2016 [68 favorites]
Here's the key paragraph from that Trump Magazine article:
But by the end of 2005, the magazine had lost more than $3 million, according to Forbes. In typical Trump fashion, the mogul was still making money—he received a licensing fee of $120,000 per issue in 2005, raised to $135,000 per issue in 2006—even as Jacobson’s company, Premiere Publishing Group, sank deeper into the red.posted by octothorpe at 7:12 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
I've gotten to the part where the electricity was turned off and the staff sat in a circle on the floor.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:15 AM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:15 AM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm just suprised by the implication that he's not already beating her by 20%.
Also apparently she's no longer Crooked. Though the implicit admission that he's losing is surprising for a doofus of this caliber.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:16 AM on August 14, 2016
Also apparently she's no longer Crooked. Though the implicit admission that he's losing is surprising for a doofus of this caliber.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:16 AM on August 14, 2016
Beating Hillary by 20%? Jesus. The biggest freaking landslide in recent memory was still just 8 or 9 points separated in the national popular vote. He is just so incredibly ignorant and arrogant, two things that I cannot abide when combined.
"Some people have come up to me and said, 'Mr Trump', they say, 'how could you be up in the polls by 20 if the biggest landslide in recent memory was just 8 or 9 points' and to that I say, the corrupt media. You see, people in the disgusting press have been calling me something called a demagogue. Now I don't understand these foreign Latin words that the corrupt media use and I looked it up. Now this is how stupid the corrupt media are. Demagogue literally means "popular leader". So they're calling me popular and a leader when they're trying to make me look bad! How stupid can you get?
So anyway, I decided to find out more about demagogues and you know what? When they even have elections for these people, some are just leaders by default because they're so great, they are often ahead in the polls by YUUUUUUUUUUGE amounts. And so, if I was a demagogue, like the corrupt media have been saying, then I should be ahead of Crooked Hillary by at LEAST twenty points! But I'm not! Because the corrupt media and their fancy foreign words that people don't actually know are making me look bad! And this is how elections are rigged people!
Now about that wall..."
[fake]
posted by Talez at 7:17 AM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Some people have come up to me and said, 'Mr Trump', they say, 'how could you be up in the polls by 20 if the biggest landslide in recent memory was just 8 or 9 points' and to that I say, the corrupt media. You see, people in the disgusting press have been calling me something called a demagogue. Now I don't understand these foreign Latin words that the corrupt media use and I looked it up. Now this is how stupid the corrupt media are. Demagogue literally means "popular leader". So they're calling me popular and a leader when they're trying to make me look bad! How stupid can you get?
So anyway, I decided to find out more about demagogues and you know what? When they even have elections for these people, some are just leaders by default because they're so great, they are often ahead in the polls by YUUUUUUUUUUGE amounts. And so, if I was a demagogue, like the corrupt media have been saying, then I should be ahead of Crooked Hillary by at LEAST twenty points! But I'm not! Because the corrupt media and their fancy foreign words that people don't actually know are making me look bad! And this is how elections are rigged people!
Now about that wall..."
[fake]
posted by Talez at 7:17 AM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
I wasn't going to read to the end of this thread, but then some jerk sewed my eyelids open.
posted by angrycat at 7:24 AM on August 14, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 7:24 AM on August 14, 2016 [18 favorites]
Bullshit... Ask me how I know.
Because you went to Harvard or Yale Law School and all your classmates had working class backgrounds?
sorry for this derail... I remain bothered generally but no one else seems to be so I'll back away
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:34 AM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
Because you went to Harvard or Yale Law School and all your classmates had working class backgrounds?
sorry for this derail... I remain bothered generally but no one else seems to be so I'll back away
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:34 AM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
"If the disgusting and corrupt media covered me honestly and didn't put false meaning into the words I say, I would be beating Hillary by 20%"
What a depressing start to the day! Everyone involved in sending the zombie locomotive of the Trump campaign this far down the tracks will learn nothing from a loss, even a crushing landslide loss: they will instead wallow in their victim fantasies about the stab in the back from the media and the 'rigged' election.
posted by thelonius at 7:35 AM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
What a depressing start to the day! Everyone involved in sending the zombie locomotive of the Trump campaign this far down the tracks will learn nothing from a loss, even a crushing landslide loss: they will instead wallow in their victim fantasies about the stab in the back from the media and the 'rigged' election.
posted by thelonius at 7:35 AM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
Harvard or Yale Law School and all your classmates had working class background
Yeah, that's exactly what I said and clearly meant. C'mon
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 7:39 AM on August 14, 2016 [9 favorites]
Yeah, that's exactly what I said and clearly meant. C'mon
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 7:39 AM on August 14, 2016 [9 favorites]
Perfect example. Trumps No-Tax Returns. Show us any. 2002, 2009, you name it. ANY.
Since it will inevitably shrink his hands and his - wherever - to be documented as not-that-rich and almost certainly guilty of fraud, it will never happen.
Spineless media? You can do this. Ask him about it. Every interview. Every. One. Money is his home. Go there.
posted by petebest at 7:42 AM on August 14, 2016 [18 favorites]
Since it will inevitably shrink his hands and his - wherever - to be documented as not-that-rich and almost certainly guilty of fraud, it will never happen.
Spineless media? You can do this. Ask him about it. Every interview. Every. One. Money is his home. Go there.
posted by petebest at 7:42 AM on August 14, 2016 [18 favorites]
That narrative about the death of the Tea Party seems to perpetuate the myth that it was a "spontaneous, grassroots" effort
it was and it's been in progress for decades - i live in the midwest and it was all pretty familiar stuff to me
posted by pyramid termite at 7:43 AM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
it was and it's been in progress for decades - i live in the midwest and it was all pretty familiar stuff to me
posted by pyramid termite at 7:43 AM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
Trump told local PA TV we'll pay off national debt by an "energy revolution" when we "open the mines."
He knows where the unobtainium is buried! Everyone will get a home Mr. Fusion! All our soldiers will have adamantium skeletons! Robots will run on dilithium!
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:44 AM on August 14, 2016 [16 favorites]
He knows where the unobtainium is buried! Everyone will get a home Mr. Fusion! All our soldiers will have adamantium skeletons! Robots will run on dilithium!
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:44 AM on August 14, 2016 [16 favorites]
That Tea Party article is illuminating. Although how different is it from the mainstream republican strategy since the sixties of using ginned up fear over social change in order to convince people to vote for economic policies that are effectively their own guillotine? The Tea Party PAC stuff is just lower dollar, and more obvious. That sort of graft is baked right into the modern Republican party.
posted by codacorolla at 7:49 AM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 7:49 AM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
Election season is like Black Friday for mass media. People pay attention to the news, and people in the news buy political ads promoting themselves. Trump is pretty famously not buying ads and relying on news production to get his message out, which does have an impact on the P&Ls of media corporations, and their executives realize that. But any coverage bias caused by that is a second-order effect at best.
posted by infinitewindow at 7:59 AM on August 14, 2016
posted by infinitewindow at 7:59 AM on August 14, 2016
Dad just sent me an email asking me to hang out with him on the campaign trail!
posted by Talez at 8:02 AM on August 14, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by Talez at 8:02 AM on August 14, 2016 [19 favorites]
He knows where the unobtainium is buried! Everyone will get a home Mr. Fusion! All our soldiers will have adamantium skeletons! Robots will run on dilithium!
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:15 AM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:15 AM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm relaxed about the Trump tax returns. The candidate is cooking himself nicely, and it's good to have something to turn up the heat with later, if there's any sign of sanity making some sort of appearance.
posted by Devonian at 8:21 AM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 8:21 AM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
BBC News: Can Republicans Really Dump Trump?
Outlines five ways this could play out.
posted by mochapickle at 8:26 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Outlines five ways this could play out.
posted by mochapickle at 8:26 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
That narrative about the death of the Tea Party seems to perpetuate the myth that it was a 'spontaneous, grassroots' effort
The spontaneous part was a black guy getting elected.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:29 AM on August 14, 2016 [33 favorites]
There are 8000 coal miners in Pennsylvania.
posted by OmieWise at 8:38 AM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by OmieWise at 8:38 AM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
There are only a total of ~75k people employed at coal mines in the entire US.
posted by OmieWise at 8:40 AM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by OmieWise at 8:40 AM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
> What a depressing start to the day! Everyone involved in sending the zombie locomotive of the Trump campaign this far down the tracks will learn nothing from a loss, even a crushing landslide loss: they will instead wallow in their victim fantasies about the stab in the back from the media and the 'rigged' election.
May we always be blessed with stupid enemies.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:45 AM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
May we always be blessed with stupid enemies.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:45 AM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
> Bullshit. Both the Clintons and Obama went to those schools as graduate students. There is a lot of inequality in undergraduate admissions but much less so in graduate admissions. If you do really well as an undergrad and are really smart you can get into a top grad program. Who your parents are and where you grew up matter a lot less. Ask me how I know.
Yeah, it's pretty easy to sort the undergrads from the grad students on elite campuses. The undergrads are the ones with nice clothes and nice cars.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:47 AM on August 14, 2016 [30 favorites]
Yeah, it's pretty easy to sort the undergrads from the grad students on elite campuses. The undergrads are the ones with nice clothes and nice cars.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:47 AM on August 14, 2016 [30 favorites]
This story on where Trump gets his news bizarrely lumps in Snopes.com with Breitbart and Gateway Pundit, seemingly based on a complete misunderstanding of what kind of site it is-- "by its own admission traffics in urban legends". I wonder if the reporter who wrote that is too young to have been active on the web in the time when Snopes was the gold standard for rebutting bogus email forwards and scare stories.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 8:49 AM on August 14, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 8:49 AM on August 14, 2016 [24 favorites]
Snopes do have that weird Meredith-Truther thing going on though.
posted by Artw at 8:52 AM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:52 AM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Also apparently she's no longer Crooked
Come to think of it - when he loses, he'll want to be friends with the president regardless of what he said the last year. Maybe that is why he has been campaigning against Obama rather than Clinton. The debates will be interesting.
posted by mumimor at 8:58 AM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Come to think of it - when he loses, he'll want to be friends with the president regardless of what he said the last year. Maybe that is why he has been campaigning against Obama rather than Clinton. The debates will be interesting.
posted by mumimor at 8:58 AM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Conservative Review has been looking over Trump's performance and prospects, with no very lively clarion of hope (it thinks his best bet is to go on vacation and refer all media queries to Clinton.s office),but I can't help quoting this morose wrap-up:
[...] That’s over 15 times more spending from Clinton and her allies. You can’t win an election against the Clinton’s on your charm and earned media.
The Trump campaign is running out of time to right the ship. The GOP is running out of options.
Time will tell what the next week brings. Spoiler alert, it’s not gonna change, even with the RNC and Team Trump huddling in Orlando over the next few days to talk strategy.
The Perseid meteor shower reached its peak this week. Can the sweet meteor of death be that far behind.
posted by Devonian at 9:12 AM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
[...] That’s over 15 times more spending from Clinton and her allies. You can’t win an election against the Clinton’s on your charm and earned media.
The Trump campaign is running out of time to right the ship. The GOP is running out of options.
Time will tell what the next week brings. Spoiler alert, it’s not gonna change, even with the RNC and Team Trump huddling in Orlando over the next few days to talk strategy.
The Perseid meteor shower reached its peak this week. Can the sweet meteor of death be that far behind.
posted by Devonian at 9:12 AM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
That's... really poetical.
posted by Artw at 9:16 AM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:16 AM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
One thing that bugs me about class inequality right now and the presidency is that every president since Bill Clinton has gone to either Harvard or Yale, or both. At least in the 60s, 70s & 80s, before inequality took off, there was some mixing it up (LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan).
If we are worried about diversity of alma maters, I'm fairly certain Clinton will be the first president to have attended Wellesley.
I'm not sure this is directly related to inequality. There have been lots of times in this country's history when income inequality was far worse but presidents came from plenty of different schools. Was Reagan better for having attended Eureka College? I kind of see the point in terms of finding politicians with a diversity of viewpoints, but I think you'll need to explain more about why this is bad on economic grounds. Is your point that it's inherently bad for politicians to be associated with expensive private schools, or that it's bad for them to be associated with the same few schools? Or, perhaps, that they all seem to have come from either business or law school? Would it be equally bad if the next president had a PhD in, say, neuroscience from Harvard? What specifically about their association with those two schools bothers you?
posted by one_bean at 9:27 AM on August 14, 2016 [19 favorites]
If we are worried about diversity of alma maters, I'm fairly certain Clinton will be the first president to have attended Wellesley.
I'm not sure this is directly related to inequality. There have been lots of times in this country's history when income inequality was far worse but presidents came from plenty of different schools. Was Reagan better for having attended Eureka College? I kind of see the point in terms of finding politicians with a diversity of viewpoints, but I think you'll need to explain more about why this is bad on economic grounds. Is your point that it's inherently bad for politicians to be associated with expensive private schools, or that it's bad for them to be associated with the same few schools? Or, perhaps, that they all seem to have come from either business or law school? Would it be equally bad if the next president had a PhD in, say, neuroscience from Harvard? What specifically about their association with those two schools bothers you?
posted by one_bean at 9:27 AM on August 14, 2016 [19 favorites]
Make Cardassia Great Again!
"There was a time when the mere mention of my race inspired fear. And now, we're a beaten people, afraid to fight back because we don't wanna lose what little is left."
"Bad manners are the fault of the parent, not the child. My weakness is, I'm too generous, too forgiving. My heart is too big... "
"A good interrogator doesn't allow his subject to die; you lose the advantage."
"A true victory is to make your enemy see they were wrong to oppose you in the first place. To force them to acknowledge your greatness."
posted by Servo5678 at 9:27 AM on August 14, 2016 [19 favorites]
"There was a time when the mere mention of my race inspired fear. And now, we're a beaten people, afraid to fight back because we don't wanna lose what little is left."
"Bad manners are the fault of the parent, not the child. My weakness is, I'm too generous, too forgiving. My heart is too big... "
"A good interrogator doesn't allow his subject to die; you lose the advantage."
"A true victory is to make your enemy see they were wrong to oppose you in the first place. To force them to acknowledge your greatness."
posted by Servo5678 at 9:27 AM on August 14, 2016 [19 favorites]
Harvard and Yale law are kind of where you go if you're interested in public service/governance. It's like being shocked that most roboticists have PhDs from CMU and MIT. Lots of universities have computer science departments, but everyone knows where you set your sights if you want to build self-driving cars for Uber.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:38 AM on August 14, 2016 [38 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:38 AM on August 14, 2016 [38 favorites]
When they all get turned away from entering the polling site for going against the rules on electioneering too close to a poll site
Those rules aren't consistent everywhere. I was surprised, when living in NH and ME, that not only can you do visibility right at the polls, but the candidates themselves can stand there and shake hands. So it'd be a good idea for everyone, regardless of affiliation, to brush up on local law.
The constraint that the paid speaker system imposes is less about specific quid-pro-quos, and more about a soft suasion that limits the field of statements and acts that are admissible in public among people who wish to remain influential in public.
Again, speaking as a speaker booker, this concern is really overblown, especially when stated in such dire terms. Speaking engagements are indeed a quid pro quo, but rarely is anything even slightly controversial or newsmaking said, and rarely are the speeches worthy of revisiting and rereading, let alone speeches that subtly shift the walls of power or any such thing. When people want to make challenging statements in public, they generally do so on their own dime; when their presence is being leveraged for profile or profit, they tend to stay within the general bounds of the content the hiring organization has requested (free trade, commencement remarks, global health, whatever the subject matter), but you can't draw any direct line between their tailoring remarks for context and crowd and any subtle limitation of speech elsewhere in their lives - in fact, such less-fettered speech and visibility is exactly what makes them valuable. Rarely is there anything new, newsworthy, or secret in these kinds of speeches. Frankly, they're often so platitudinous as to be boring. These attempts to create a cabal out of some women's business luncheon speeches are just shaded a little too much with this kind of unsupported nuance.
Carter seemed to think that work on human rights could be best done in the private sector
Point of clarification, Carter actually works mainly in the voluntary or nonprofit sector (sometimes called the third sector), not the private sector, which denotes for-profit businesses.
Because you went to Harvard or Yale Law School and all your classmates had working class backgrounds?
I just graduated from a Harvard (though non-Law) graduate program in which I took courses in 3 of the schools, and I can attest that it's far more economically diverse than its general reputation, and certainly than the (relatively small by comparison to its 16 graduate and professional programs) undergraduate school. Also, there's an aura in critiquing this of punishing success that I don't cotton to. These schools are aspirational - they are concentrators of talent, and if you are an Obama or a Rodham Clinton or anyone else looking to break ceilings and get into the most powerful and well-educated circles in the political scene, then this is where you want to go. it's not an accident that they went there, or a reflection of unthinking privilege: it's an expression of their individual determination to challenge themselves at the highest levels available to any student and to develop extensive and respected networks, by leveraging whatever advantages of happenstance, talent, person and privilege they had. These schools are full of people like that. Yes, only the fortunate few who dream of doing that get to actually do it, but it should never surprise or disappoint us that some of the most ambitious, determined, and talented Americans aim to go to schools like that, and some of them pull it off, and despite the monetary worth those degrees reliably confer in the private sector still choose to enter public service.
posted by Miko at 9:47 AM on August 14, 2016 [79 favorites]
Those rules aren't consistent everywhere. I was surprised, when living in NH and ME, that not only can you do visibility right at the polls, but the candidates themselves can stand there and shake hands. So it'd be a good idea for everyone, regardless of affiliation, to brush up on local law.
The constraint that the paid speaker system imposes is less about specific quid-pro-quos, and more about a soft suasion that limits the field of statements and acts that are admissible in public among people who wish to remain influential in public.
Again, speaking as a speaker booker, this concern is really overblown, especially when stated in such dire terms. Speaking engagements are indeed a quid pro quo, but rarely is anything even slightly controversial or newsmaking said, and rarely are the speeches worthy of revisiting and rereading, let alone speeches that subtly shift the walls of power or any such thing. When people want to make challenging statements in public, they generally do so on their own dime; when their presence is being leveraged for profile or profit, they tend to stay within the general bounds of the content the hiring organization has requested (free trade, commencement remarks, global health, whatever the subject matter), but you can't draw any direct line between their tailoring remarks for context and crowd and any subtle limitation of speech elsewhere in their lives - in fact, such less-fettered speech and visibility is exactly what makes them valuable. Rarely is there anything new, newsworthy, or secret in these kinds of speeches. Frankly, they're often so platitudinous as to be boring. These attempts to create a cabal out of some women's business luncheon speeches are just shaded a little too much with this kind of unsupported nuance.
Carter seemed to think that work on human rights could be best done in the private sector
Point of clarification, Carter actually works mainly in the voluntary or nonprofit sector (sometimes called the third sector), not the private sector, which denotes for-profit businesses.
Because you went to Harvard or Yale Law School and all your classmates had working class backgrounds?
I just graduated from a Harvard (though non-Law) graduate program in which I took courses in 3 of the schools, and I can attest that it's far more economically diverse than its general reputation, and certainly than the (relatively small by comparison to its 16 graduate and professional programs) undergraduate school. Also, there's an aura in critiquing this of punishing success that I don't cotton to. These schools are aspirational - they are concentrators of talent, and if you are an Obama or a Rodham Clinton or anyone else looking to break ceilings and get into the most powerful and well-educated circles in the political scene, then this is where you want to go. it's not an accident that they went there, or a reflection of unthinking privilege: it's an expression of their individual determination to challenge themselves at the highest levels available to any student and to develop extensive and respected networks, by leveraging whatever advantages of happenstance, talent, person and privilege they had. These schools are full of people like that. Yes, only the fortunate few who dream of doing that get to actually do it, but it should never surprise or disappoint us that some of the most ambitious, determined, and talented Americans aim to go to schools like that, and some of them pull it off, and despite the monetary worth those degrees reliably confer in the private sector still choose to enter public service.
posted by Miko at 9:47 AM on August 14, 2016 [79 favorites]
For anyone not following Twitter right now, trump is having an epic level meltdown about the NYT article. Someone gave him back his phone, and he's posting every 10 minutes about how much he hates the media.
posted by codacorolla at 9:56 AM on August 14, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 9:56 AM on August 14, 2016 [13 favorites]
WaPo has an article from yesterday evening on some Millennials and this election.
posted by cashman at 9:57 AM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by cashman at 9:57 AM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
Which NYT article set Donny off?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:01 AM on August 14, 2016
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:01 AM on August 14, 2016
We have no idea what Trump's done.
We do to some degree, mainly thanks to all the times he's been sued, but perhaps it's difficult to turn that into a clear account because of the parallel reality-show narrative. We know that after the casino bankruptcies he's mostly dropped out of property development, other than leasing the Trump name to projects built by other developers with other people's money. We know that American banks won't do business with him. We know he routinely stiffs the people he hires. We know that America's Most Famous Actual Billionaires think he's a bullshit artist.
The spontaneous part was a black guy getting elected.
To be fair, it was also a spontaneous desire to blame minorities for the 2008 crash, then spontaneously show up at town hall events with AR-15s during the summer of 2009.
Someone gave him back his phone, and he's posting every 10 minutes about how much he hates the media.
"Did you lock the desk drawer, Meredith?"
"He must have a spare key!"
posted by holgate at 10:02 AM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
We do to some degree, mainly thanks to all the times he's been sued, but perhaps it's difficult to turn that into a clear account because of the parallel reality-show narrative. We know that after the casino bankruptcies he's mostly dropped out of property development, other than leasing the Trump name to projects built by other developers with other people's money. We know that American banks won't do business with him. We know he routinely stiffs the people he hires. We know that America's Most Famous Actual Billionaires think he's a bullshit artist.
The spontaneous part was a black guy getting elected.
To be fair, it was also a spontaneous desire to blame minorities for the 2008 crash, then spontaneously show up at town hall events with AR-15s during the summer of 2009.
Someone gave him back his phone, and he's posting every 10 minutes about how much he hates the media.
"Did you lock the desk drawer, Meredith?"
"He must have a spare key!"
posted by holgate at 10:02 AM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
Which NYT article set Donny off?
I believe it's Inside the Failing Mission to Tame Donald Trump’s Tongue.
posted by box at 10:05 AM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
I believe it's Inside the Failing Mission to Tame Donald Trump’s Tongue.
posted by box at 10:05 AM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
I believe it's Inside the Failing Mission to Tame Donald Trump’s Tongue.
Which was previously titled "Inside the Failing Mission to Save Donald Trump From Himself".
posted by cashman at 10:08 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Which was previously titled "Inside the Failing Mission to Save Donald Trump From Himself".
posted by cashman at 10:08 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Donald Trump blasts NY Times after story about 'sputtering' campaign
CNN reporting on Trump's freakout about the NYTimes.
posted by readery at 10:08 AM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
CNN reporting on Trump's freakout about the NYTimes.
posted by readery at 10:08 AM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
The article that trump is railing against is [NYT] Inside the Failing Mission to Tame Donald Trump’s Tongue from the Sunday edition of the paper. It's partially sourced from anonymous people inside the campaign itself, but also direct quotes from top level officials like Rove. Regardless, it seems more than plausible given what we know. It paints a picture of trump as seriously unhinged, unable to either manage or take management, and with absolutely no political sense beyond capturing headlines with populist posturing. Like his idea to campaign heavily Oregon.
It focuses on several efforts, including the much publicized meeting this past Friday, to get the campaign back on track, and the utter failure of those efforts to take hold.
posted by codacorolla at 10:09 AM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
It focuses on several efforts, including the much publicized meeting this past Friday, to get the campaign back on track, and the utter failure of those efforts to take hold.
posted by codacorolla at 10:09 AM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
WaPo has an article from yesterday evening on some Millennials and this election.
posted by cashman at 12:57 PM on 8/14
[1 favorite +] [!]
Some young people said they are so uninspired that they’re just going to sit this one out.
Whaaaat? Unprecedented!
(My monocle pops out and lands in my pea soup)
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:11 AM on August 14, 2016 [39 favorites]
posted by cashman at 12:57 PM on 8/14
[1 favorite +] [!]
Some young people said they are so uninspired that they’re just going to sit this one out.
Whaaaat? Unprecedented!
(My monocle pops out and lands in my pea soup)
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:11 AM on August 14, 2016 [39 favorites]
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
It is not "freedom of the press" when newspapers and others are allowed to say and write whatever they want even if it is completely false!
posted by TWinbrook8 at 10:12 AM on August 14, 2016 [12 favorites]
It is not "freedom of the press" when newspapers and others are allowed to say and write whatever they want even if it is completely false!
posted by TWinbrook8 at 10:12 AM on August 14, 2016 [12 favorites]
I find that while I'm still concerned with the possibility of a Trump presidency, I'm currently more concerned with the possibility of his campaign failing before September 1, with all the legal and political fallout that entails.
He strikes me as the sort of person that would want to watch the house burn if he were evicted.
posted by Mooski at 10:12 AM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
He strikes me as the sort of person that would want to watch the house burn if he were evicted.
posted by Mooski at 10:12 AM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
So I already encountered a couple weeks ago someone who thinks that any article that uses an anonymous source means it's literally completely fabricated. Which Trump also seems to believe (though he of course has an interest in claiming this in this circumstance). Is this actually a thing, people not understanding how journalists vet and report on sources?
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:14 AM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:14 AM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
He could take a page from Thiel and sue, that would be fun.
posted by Artw at 10:16 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:16 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
It is not "freedom of the press" when newspapers and others are allowed to say and write whatever they want even if it is completely false!
[Real, by the way]. He should've taken Mr. Khan up on his offer for a free Constitution back at the start of the month.
posted by codacorolla at 10:19 AM on August 14, 2016 [25 favorites]
[Real, by the way]. He should've taken Mr. Khan up on his offer for a free Constitution back at the start of the month.
posted by codacorolla at 10:19 AM on August 14, 2016 [25 favorites]
Geez, Donny, the NYT is just saying what everybody is thinking.
posted by phooky at 10:20 AM on August 14, 2016 [36 favorites]
posted by phooky at 10:20 AM on August 14, 2016 [36 favorites]
I like this exchange from yesterday:
I am truly enjoying myself while running for president. The people of our country are amazing - great numbers on November 8th!
(from @shl) @realdonaldtrump many people are saying you’re not.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 10:21 AM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
I am truly enjoying myself while running for president. The people of our country are amazing - great numbers on November 8th!
(from @shl) @realdonaldtrump many people are saying you’re not.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 10:21 AM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
He could take a page from Thiel and sue, that would be fun.
I suspect that will come right after he loses. He'll sue every media outlet and network, the DNC, Clinton, and probably even the RNC, just to round-out the victimization play.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:21 AM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
I suspect that will come right after he loses. He'll sue every media outlet and network, the DNC, Clinton, and probably even the RNC, just to round-out the victimization play.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:21 AM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
He could take a page from Thiel and sue, that would be fun.
I'm outright expecting this to happen sooner rather than later. It'll be a matter of pre- or post-election.....
posted by splen at 10:22 AM on August 14, 2016
I suspect that will come right after he loses. He'll sue every media outlet and network, the DNC, Clinton, and probably even the RNC, just to round-out the victimization play.
I'm looking forward to see those suits shake out after he's threatened the courts, both political parties, and the very institution of American Democracy itself.
posted by codacorolla at 10:22 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm looking forward to see those suits shake out after he's threatened the courts, both political parties, and the very institution of American Democracy itself.
posted by codacorolla at 10:22 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oh, I have no doubt he'll round on Republicans hardest of all, TBH.
posted by Artw at 10:23 AM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 10:23 AM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
@realdonaldtrump many people are saying you’re not.
I love how down the chain a bit someone with an angry Wojak avatar asks him if he's here legally.
That really encapsulates the entire Trump campaign.
posted by Talez at 10:24 AM on August 14, 2016
I love how down the chain a bit someone with an angry Wojak avatar asks him if he's here legally.
That really encapsulates the entire Trump campaign.
posted by Talez at 10:24 AM on August 14, 2016
Anyone know the numbers of people that are showing up at his rallies? All I remember reading about were issues with smaller venues and mentions of the holding a few thousand. Curious for two reasons, one Trump again in this series of tweet mentions big numbers and two I've had a couple of people tell me he is regularly getting tens of thousands. He's getting much more then Obama apparently.
posted by Jalliah at 10:26 AM on August 14, 2016
posted by Jalliah at 10:26 AM on August 14, 2016
The article that trump is railing against is [NYT] Inside the Failing Mission to Tame Donald Trump’s Tongue
So, just to confirm, Trump is having a very public tantrum about an article which details the difficulty that campaign and party insiders are having in trying to keep him from having very public tantrums?
Because that is for reals the Trumpiest thing in the history of ever.
posted by dersins at 10:27 AM on August 14, 2016 [102 favorites]
So, just to confirm, Trump is having a very public tantrum about an article which details the difficulty that campaign and party insiders are having in trying to keep him from having very public tantrums?
Because that is for reals the Trumpiest thing in the history of ever.
posted by dersins at 10:27 AM on August 14, 2016 [102 favorites]
Is this actually a thing, people not understanding how journalists vet and report on sources?
Perhaps. But from this journalist's perspective, the heart of the shame of unnamed sources is all the times they have been used to allow political operators to slam their opponents - or tip national debates - without any chance of consequences that would normally attached to named quotes. The New York Times quite specifically has had a problem with this, not starting with Judith Miller, and not ending with her either.
(This does not mean that I think the article Trump criticizes is incorrect or unfair, as I do not know about its particulars.)
posted by Andrew Galarneau at 10:28 AM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
Perhaps. But from this journalist's perspective, the heart of the shame of unnamed sources is all the times they have been used to allow political operators to slam their opponents - or tip national debates - without any chance of consequences that would normally attached to named quotes. The New York Times quite specifically has had a problem with this, not starting with Judith Miller, and not ending with her either.
(This does not mean that I think the article Trump criticizes is incorrect or unfair, as I do not know about its particulars.)
posted by Andrew Galarneau at 10:28 AM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
He's getting much more then Obama apparently.
No he's not. In fact, twice in the last couple weeks Breitbart was busted showing Cleveland Cavalier celebration crowds as his.
posted by chris24 at 10:28 AM on August 14, 2016 [16 favorites]
No he's not. In fact, twice in the last couple weeks Breitbart was busted showing Cleveland Cavalier celebration crowds as his.
posted by chris24 at 10:28 AM on August 14, 2016 [16 favorites]
Geez, Donny, the NYT is just saying what everybody is thinking.
Many people are saying. All the smartest people. Believe me, folks, this is what people are saying. I don't know, you decide.
posted by ctmf at 10:29 AM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
Many people are saying. All the smartest people. Believe me, folks, this is what people are saying. I don't know, you decide.
posted by ctmf at 10:29 AM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
Someone mentioned that this is the first job for which Donald Trump has applied. I don't know that that's literally true, but it explains a lot. He's the kind of guy that HR has to tell security about.
posted by Countess Elena at 10:30 AM on August 14, 2016 [48 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 10:30 AM on August 14, 2016 [48 favorites]
Whenever he starts tweeting like this I imagine people at desks going 'Omg he's doing it again someone get to his phone!' and frantic tweets and phonecalls being made. Then I imagine a huddle of people trying to decide who is going to go try to get it this time and several rounds of stressed out rock, paper scissors being played.
posted by Jalliah at 10:32 AM on August 14, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by Jalliah at 10:32 AM on August 14, 2016 [20 favorites]
No he's not. In fact, twice in the last couple weeks Breitbart was busted showing Cleveland Cavalier celebration crowds as his.
Oops should have made it clear that's what these people are telling me. I know there is no way he's getting Obama numbers. Just wondering if anyone has read any reports (that can be trusted) of his actual numbers because beyond the whole fire marshall episode which talked about numbers I have no clue.
posted by Jalliah at 10:35 AM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
> *world's biggest eyeroll*
These Millennials need to grow the fuck up.
posted by Monochrome at 10:36 AM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
These Millennials need to grow the fuck up.
posted by Monochrome at 10:36 AM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
These Millennials need to grow the fuck up.
I got a 3rd of the way through it before I was convinced it wasn't satire. And even then, I figured it had to be somehow, some way.
posted by cashman at 10:41 AM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
I got a 3rd of the way through it before I was convinced it wasn't satire. And even then, I figured it had to be somehow, some way.
posted by cashman at 10:41 AM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Every time he's asked what actions he would do, he's like a kid doing a book report who hasn't read the book.
It's like he thinks seven-year-olds are his base. We'll make a wall! And we won't have to pay for it! And we'll beat up that bully, yeah! And ride around on rockets! Ice cream whenever we want! And no more cleaning our rooms, or going to school, ever!
posted by ctmf at 10:42 AM on August 14, 2016 [25 favorites]
It's like he thinks seven-year-olds are his base. We'll make a wall! And we won't have to pay for it! And we'll beat up that bully, yeah! And ride around on rockets! Ice cream whenever we want! And no more cleaning our rooms, or going to school, ever!
posted by ctmf at 10:42 AM on August 14, 2016 [25 favorites]
Does... does Trump not get that it's not libel if it's true?
posted by lovecrafty at 10:43 AM on August 14, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by lovecrafty at 10:43 AM on August 14, 2016 [12 favorites]
does Trump not get that it's not libel if it's true?
He just has a different definition of true. Truth is what he wants it to be.
posted by chris24 at 10:45 AM on August 14, 2016 [25 favorites]
He just has a different definition of true. Truth is what he wants it to be.
posted by chris24 at 10:45 AM on August 14, 2016 [25 favorites]
Maybe this WaPo one will distract him from the NYT one:
Donald Trump blames the media for his own failure to run a general election campaign.
posted by box at 10:46 AM on August 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
Donald Trump blames the media for his own failure to run a general election campaign.
posted by box at 10:46 AM on August 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
Fareed Zakaria, GPS: Chemi Shalev tells Fareed there are worrisome parallels between the atmosphere around Trump today and in Israel before Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated.
Chemi Shalev: GOP Convention's Clinton Hate Fest Could Turn Lethal: Christie has convicted her of heinous crimes and Carson of sympathy for the devil. Such words can kill, as Israelis recall after the public vitriol that preceded Yitzhak Rabin's '95 assassination.
Thomas Friedman: Trump’s Wink Wink to ‘Second Amendment People’
Allison Kaplan Sommer: American Friends, Trust an Israeli: Trump's Second Amendment Remarks Could Get Someone Killed.
posted by homunculus at 10:49 AM on August 14, 2016 [32 favorites]
Chemi Shalev: GOP Convention's Clinton Hate Fest Could Turn Lethal: Christie has convicted her of heinous crimes and Carson of sympathy for the devil. Such words can kill, as Israelis recall after the public vitriol that preceded Yitzhak Rabin's '95 assassination.
Thomas Friedman: Trump’s Wink Wink to ‘Second Amendment People’
Allison Kaplan Sommer: American Friends, Trust an Israeli: Trump's Second Amendment Remarks Could Get Someone Killed.
posted by homunculus at 10:49 AM on August 14, 2016 [32 favorites]
Does... does Trump not get that it's not libel if it's true?
Probably. Thing is I'm pretty sure that in his mind he actually believes what people write about him is not true. I think he knowingly and consciously lies part of the time and the rest of the time he either can't recall exactly what he says or his mind just makes up it's own 'truth' based on what he thinks he said or based on what he is thinking in the moment.
posted by Jalliah at 10:49 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Probably. Thing is I'm pretty sure that in his mind he actually believes what people write about him is not true. I think he knowingly and consciously lies part of the time and the rest of the time he either can't recall exactly what he says or his mind just makes up it's own 'truth' based on what he thinks he said or based on what he is thinking in the moment.
posted by Jalliah at 10:49 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Anonymous sources are problematical, and any news organisation in long trousers will have strict rules about when and how they can be used - as the CNN report says, the NYT requires the reporter shares the identity of the source with the editor (which is how I've always worked, both as reporter and editor, for good and obvious reasons).
But they are often the only way to get a story; people face severe sanctions for talking to reporters, especially where non-disclosure agreements are involved. I don't know what the law's like in the US, but in the UK we were trained that we can't legally print information that would break an NDA, which... well, it depends on a case by case basis how you choose to follow that. I've had many occasions where 'off the record' anonymous tip-offs were useful for pointing me in the right direction and equipping me to ask the right questions on the record, rather than run with the initial information received. While a story's developing, a reporter will frequently know more than they're printing: you know but cannot prove that the bastard's taking kickbacks, because someone has quietly pointed you to a deal that on the face of it makes no sense, so you set about assembling the public evidence that builds the case.
In this case, I don't doubt - and doubt that anyone else doubts - that the NYT piece on Trump's campagin woes is accurate, and that Trump's outrage is not due to the NYT making things up or being misled. Trump could easily make his case by saying that his campaign team are now free to talk to the press, or releasing minutes from meetings, or any one of a load of other ways to present evidence that the NYT is, indeed, garbage.
But he doesn't.
Go figure.
posted by Devonian at 10:50 AM on August 14, 2016 [20 favorites]
But they are often the only way to get a story; people face severe sanctions for talking to reporters, especially where non-disclosure agreements are involved. I don't know what the law's like in the US, but in the UK we were trained that we can't legally print information that would break an NDA, which... well, it depends on a case by case basis how you choose to follow that. I've had many occasions where 'off the record' anonymous tip-offs were useful for pointing me in the right direction and equipping me to ask the right questions on the record, rather than run with the initial information received. While a story's developing, a reporter will frequently know more than they're printing: you know but cannot prove that the bastard's taking kickbacks, because someone has quietly pointed you to a deal that on the face of it makes no sense, so you set about assembling the public evidence that builds the case.
In this case, I don't doubt - and doubt that anyone else doubts - that the NYT piece on Trump's campagin woes is accurate, and that Trump's outrage is not due to the NYT making things up or being misled. Trump could easily make his case by saying that his campaign team are now free to talk to the press, or releasing minutes from meetings, or any one of a load of other ways to present evidence that the NYT is, indeed, garbage.
But he doesn't.
Go figure.
posted by Devonian at 10:50 AM on August 14, 2016 [20 favorites]
Maybe this WaPo one will distract him from the NYT one:
Donald Trump blames the media for his own failure to run a general election campaign.
Oh dear. He is not going to be a happy camper today. Wowza.
posted by Jalliah at 10:52 AM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
Donald Trump blames the media for his own failure to run a general election campaign.
Oh dear. He is not going to be a happy camper today. Wowza.
posted by Jalliah at 10:52 AM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
My take is that the primary truth in Trump's world is that he is the greatest person. Therefore any article which fails to uphold this truth is automatically a lie and a smear, even if it is completely factual.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 10:53 AM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Spathe Cadet at 10:53 AM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
I really am enjoying the bluntness of media responses like that after the utter failure to call him on anything during the primaries. I really did think they were going to softball him till the end.
posted by Artw at 10:55 AM on August 14, 2016 [30 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:55 AM on August 14, 2016 [30 favorites]
Kind of hoping that thing where blatant lies get called out in chirons sticks around.
posted by Artw at 10:56 AM on August 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:56 AM on August 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
Maybe this WaPo one will distract him from the NYT one:
Donald Trump blames the media for his own failure to run a general election campaign.
And they were so close to getting their credentials back after being nice.
posted by Talez at 10:57 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Donald Trump blames the media for his own failure to run a general election campaign.
And they were so close to getting their credentials back after being nice.
posted by Talez at 10:57 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
BTW, finally got my Clinton Kaine '16 shirt yesterday. I've been wearing it since, except for when my 4 year old pitched a fit because I didn't get him one too and he demanded to wear it. NB: it's an XL. It did not fit him.
posted by OmieWise at 10:57 AM on August 14, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by OmieWise at 10:57 AM on August 14, 2016 [13 favorites]
Some young people said they are so uninspired that they’re just going to sit this one out.
Whaaaat? Unprecedented!
(My monocle pops out and lands in my pea soup)
Another example of the shitty state of journalism. Like young people haven't been exactly like this forever. But it's a pet peeve of mine that people just can't say they're not interested or don't know much about politics (or any subject), they have to make up some excuse about how the whole system is so corrupt and they're so far above it all.
The world has plenty of ignorance, we don't need to treat it like a legitimate position. That story is like Tea Party pt. 2.
posted by bongo_x at 10:59 AM on August 14, 2016 [18 favorites]
Whaaaat? Unprecedented!
(My monocle pops out and lands in my pea soup)
Another example of the shitty state of journalism. Like young people haven't been exactly like this forever. But it's a pet peeve of mine that people just can't say they're not interested or don't know much about politics (or any subject), they have to make up some excuse about how the whole system is so corrupt and they're so far above it all.
The world has plenty of ignorance, we don't need to treat it like a legitimate position. That story is like Tea Party pt. 2.
posted by bongo_x at 10:59 AM on August 14, 2016 [18 favorites]
Though a few people voiced admiration for Clinton, most talked about both her and Trump in searing, caustic words: Super villain. Evil. Chameleon. Racist. Criminal. Egomaniac. Narcissist. Sociopath. Liar. Lying cutthroat. Panderer. Word salad. Willy-nilly. Douche. Joker. Troll. Oompa Loompa. Sad. Absurd. Horrifying. Dishonest. Disgusting. Dangerous. Disaster.
Hmm.
I'm sort of guessing here, but most of this doesn't seem to be about Clinton.
posted by Artw at 11:03 AM on August 14, 2016 [27 favorites]
Hmm.
I'm sort of guessing here, but most of this doesn't seem to be about Clinton.
posted by Artw at 11:03 AM on August 14, 2016 [27 favorites]
Donald Trump blasts NY Times after story about 'sputtering' campaign
Quote from Trump's "Senior Communications Advisor" in the story:
posted by PlusDistance at 11:08 AM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
Quote from Trump's "Senior Communications Advisor" in the story:
Mr. Trump is effectively delivering messages...while Hillary Clinton takes in-campaign vacations.WTF is that about? Is it connected to Trump's shocking discovery that she sleeps?
posted by PlusDistance at 11:08 AM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
It is not "freedom of the press" when newspapers and others are allowed to say and write whatever they want even if it is completely false!
Aww, Donnie. That is exactly what "freedom of the press" is. It may not be what you think freedom of the press should be. The maintream media, just like J. Random Blogger, is permitted to shout at the top of their digital voices, "DONALD J TRUMP SUCKS." They're allowed to report only the details that support their claims and ignore the others. And, as you've noticed, you're allowed to deny them the special bonuses that a "press pass" card gets, if you don't like their coverage.
If you think that what they wrote is "completely false," I'm sure you can afford a libel suit. Election coverage is touchy stuff and everyone knows it's prone to bias; a mere handful of inaccurate details with an obviously slanted article would be a great foundation for a libel suit.
So, c'mon Donnie... which facts are wrong? You don't even have to tell us... tell the lawyer, tell the judge; file it as confidential documents for the court, and get that legal ball rolling.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:10 AM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
Aww, Donnie. That is exactly what "freedom of the press" is. It may not be what you think freedom of the press should be. The maintream media, just like J. Random Blogger, is permitted to shout at the top of their digital voices, "DONALD J TRUMP SUCKS." They're allowed to report only the details that support their claims and ignore the others. And, as you've noticed, you're allowed to deny them the special bonuses that a "press pass" card gets, if you don't like their coverage.
If you think that what they wrote is "completely false," I'm sure you can afford a libel suit. Election coverage is touchy stuff and everyone knows it's prone to bias; a mere handful of inaccurate details with an obviously slanted article would be a great foundation for a libel suit.
So, c'mon Donnie... which facts are wrong? You don't even have to tell us... tell the lawyer, tell the judge; file it as confidential documents for the court, and get that legal ball rolling.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:10 AM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
WTF is that about? Is it connected to Trump's shocking discovery that she sleeps?
Maybe he doesn't understand that taking side trips to local points of interest and drinking the local microbrew is all part of campaigning. It's not just about the rallies, Donald!
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:11 AM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
Maybe he doesn't understand that taking side trips to local points of interest and drinking the local microbrew is all part of campaigning. It's not just about the rallies, Donald!
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:11 AM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
Guys, he uses lawsuits as a bully tactic. He's not going to sue anyone or any entity that has the resources to stand up to him.
But he is going to keep to dialing up the incitements to violence and assassination, because that's what gets him applause and attention.
It's going to be a dangerous year.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:12 AM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
But he is going to keep to dialing up the incitements to violence and assassination, because that's what gets him applause and attention.
It's going to be a dangerous year.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:12 AM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
I guess "when your opponent is beating himself, keep your mouth shut" could be considered a surprise vacation if it lasts long enough.
posted by ctmf at 11:12 AM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 11:12 AM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
What would happen if Trump won? We simulated a Donald Trump presidency in Supreme Ruler.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 11:13 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Foci for Analysis at 11:13 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
To be clear, the person I encountered saying anonymous source= fabricated wasn't expressing hesitance about the use of unnamed sources in journalism but rather basically was treating anonymous source as the gold fringe on a flag. If those magic words are used, that's how you know it's all fabricated, it's a code.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:14 AM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:14 AM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
Though a few people voiced admiration for Clinton, most talked about both her and Trump in searing, caustic words: Super villain. Evil. Chameleon. Racist. Criminal. Egomaniac. Narcissist. Sociopath. Liar. Lying cutthroat. Panderer. Word salad. Willy-nilly. Douche. Joker. Troll. Oompa Loompa. Sad. Absurd. Horrifying. Dishonest. Disgusting. Dangerous. Disaster.
There was a lot of false-equivalence reporting in that story, but none that bothered me as much as this truly awful example.
Their own reporting was in fact internally inconsistent: while they wanted to write a story about millennials being torn between two equal evils, the polling they reported within that article proved their own story wrong.
But yeah, if you want to be a 'responsible' reporter go ahead and write the above paragraph like it's just a toin coss!
posted by Dashy at 11:14 AM on August 14, 2016 [20 favorites]
There was a lot of false-equivalence reporting in that story, but none that bothered me as much as this truly awful example.
Their own reporting was in fact internally inconsistent: while they wanted to write a story about millennials being torn between two equal evils, the polling they reported within that article proved their own story wrong.
But yeah, if you want to be a 'responsible' reporter go ahead and write the above paragraph like it's just a toin coss!
posted by Dashy at 11:14 AM on August 14, 2016 [20 favorites]
But yeah, if you want to be a 'responsible' reporter go ahead and write the above paragraph like it's just a coin coss!
This is what's so funny about Donald's War On The Press, tbh. If he'd just ignore them, they'd happily give him a full campaign's worth of Both Sides Are The Same reporting. But once you start attacking the press directly and throwing them out of your rallies, that's when they'll actually turn on you.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:20 AM on August 14, 2016 [39 favorites]
This is what's so funny about Donald's War On The Press, tbh. If he'd just ignore them, they'd happily give him a full campaign's worth of Both Sides Are The Same reporting. But once you start attacking the press directly and throwing them out of your rallies, that's when they'll actually turn on you.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:20 AM on August 14, 2016 [39 favorites]
Back during the 2008 primaries, I feared that if Obama became the nominee/president, his life would be in far more danger than previous nominees/presidents. It never occurred to me to fear for Clinton's life during that time. After the past few weeks of Donald & the Trumpeteers, I'm fearing for her in a way I never did for Obama.
posted by tzikeh at 11:23 AM on August 14, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by tzikeh at 11:23 AM on August 14, 2016 [34 favorites]
I am endlessly entertained at how Trump keeps telling people at his rallies that their lives suck.
Dude, they're already in bed with you; you can stop with the negging already.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:24 AM on August 14, 2016 [34 favorites]
Dude, they're already in bed with you; you can stop with the negging already.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:24 AM on August 14, 2016 [34 favorites]
Dude, they're already in bed with you; you can stop with the negging already.
It's right out of the abuse playbook. You're fucking worthless, you're lucky I stay with you. You'll never find anyone else who will put up with taking care of you.
posted by ctmf at 11:28 AM on August 14, 2016 [75 favorites]
It's right out of the abuse playbook. You're fucking worthless, you're lucky I stay with you. You'll never find anyone else who will put up with taking care of you.
posted by ctmf at 11:28 AM on August 14, 2016 [75 favorites]
Crooked Hillary Clinton is being protected by the media. She is not a talented person or politician. The dishonest media refuses to expose!
I'm going to take that as meaning "she is not a talented politician", not that he is claiming that she is not a politician. But even so! The reality of this whole disaster is sinking in for me. The man genuinely believes this, he's ensconced in like an alternate, talk-radio reality and is using his soapbox to promulgate the delusion that the media run by actual journalists is corrupt because they don't parrot these fantasies. That is kind of dangerous.
posted by thelonius at 11:28 AM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm going to take that as meaning "she is not a talented politician", not that he is claiming that she is not a politician. But even so! The reality of this whole disaster is sinking in for me. The man genuinely believes this, he's ensconced in like an alternate, talk-radio reality and is using his soapbox to promulgate the delusion that the media run by actual journalists is corrupt because they don't parrot these fantasies. That is kind of dangerous.
posted by thelonius at 11:28 AM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
Maybe he doesn't understand that taking side trips to local points of interest and drinking the local microbrew is all part of campaigning.
It's almost as if Clinton and Kaine have run successful election campaigns before. There's a hint of the Black Knight there: the other side is doing perfectly conventional August campaigning -- opening field offices, getting good local press, doing smaller events that help recruit volunteers and show the campaign's gratitude for those already signed up for the long haul. But Trump wants a rally-measuring-contest, and it's killing him that he's not getting one.
posted by holgate at 11:30 AM on August 14, 2016 [27 favorites]
It's almost as if Clinton and Kaine have run successful election campaigns before. There's a hint of the Black Knight there: the other side is doing perfectly conventional August campaigning -- opening field offices, getting good local press, doing smaller events that help recruit volunteers and show the campaign's gratitude for those already signed up for the long haul. But Trump wants a rally-measuring-contest, and it's killing him that he's not getting one.
posted by holgate at 11:30 AM on August 14, 2016 [27 favorites]
I am endlessly entertained at how Trump keeps telling people at his rallies that their lives suck
I'm not sure that's what he means when he says things like "you're doing terribly here," -- more like "your lives are bad because Obama so vote for me."
posted by tzikeh at 11:33 AM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm not sure that's what he means when he says things like "you're doing terribly here," -- more like "your lives are bad because Obama so vote for me."
posted by tzikeh at 11:33 AM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
Regarding Harvard and Yale law schools and meritocracy, I think there are at least two critiques at work, and both accept that these programs are actually some of the most meritocratic institutions in America. The first critique is that, relatively meritocratic as they may be, it's still the case that it is vastly harder to get in with a poor upbringing and poor high school education; while the entering classes may be far more diverse than Yale undergraduate, they are still far, far less diverse than America as a whole.
The second critique is that, even if they were perfectly meritocratic (whatever that may mean), the bottleneck effect is still real. Here is a brief discussion of law school ideology on 538. Glancing at it, it would appear that Harvard and Yale are toward the left of the distribution, so perhaps those of us complaining from the left shouldn't. But apart from whether conservatives are justified in lamenting the biases of these two overwhelmingly dominant schools, it is still the case that law, perhaps unlike electoral politics, is inherently much higher-dimensional, with many many dimensions and issue areas that actually make unidimensional Martin-Quinn ideological scores problematic both theoretically and methodologically. Yet schools do educate: they take the woolly mixed-up beliefs of entering students and train them in not just the "law" (whatever that is), but also in all the meta-law associated with how it works and should work. The distributions of Harvard and Yale are strikingly bimodal, while many of the other schools are strikingly unimodal. Yet I'm sure the students do not enter the programs that way. They enter with a much wider range of beliefs, norms and understandings, and leave with a much more coordinated, elite, politicized (in the sense of synced with existing political divisions) set of views. And even if one accepts that this is a necessary condition for education -- perhaps even the definition of education -- it is still the case that there are many possible ways to coordinate, and Harvard and Yale practice very specific types. Diversity diminishes and is aligned with established politics. There are a lot of ways of thinking about law (as any examination of any non-US legal system will show), and even more ways of thinking about justice. These schools have specific ways of doing it that are in turn deeply tied to elite legal thinking, but that's still a limitation. And if one is in favor of radical legal and political change, the bottleneck provided by these schools is a problem, even if one believed they were utterly meritocratic.
(And as a follow-up note, I realized halfway through writing the above that this is kind of an odd thing to find myself arguing here, since in this forum stuffed with those in and near academia, it's common to hear people complaining about the dominance of X or Y elite graduate program in field Z, where the complaint is not that X or Y aren't meritocratic, but that they train up their graduate students to approach the research questions in field Z in a specific way that prevents all sorts of alternative avenues of exploration. This is a very common complaint in academia, but it's no different in law than for other school/paradigm dominances in the sciences or humanities. The main differences is that in law, Harvard and Yale seem even more dominant that in most other branches of academia, and probably more so for down-stream careers than even the most committed meritocrat could explain via the pure merit of their graduates.)
posted by chortly at 11:34 AM on August 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
The second critique is that, even if they were perfectly meritocratic (whatever that may mean), the bottleneck effect is still real. Here is a brief discussion of law school ideology on 538. Glancing at it, it would appear that Harvard and Yale are toward the left of the distribution, so perhaps those of us complaining from the left shouldn't. But apart from whether conservatives are justified in lamenting the biases of these two overwhelmingly dominant schools, it is still the case that law, perhaps unlike electoral politics, is inherently much higher-dimensional, with many many dimensions and issue areas that actually make unidimensional Martin-Quinn ideological scores problematic both theoretically and methodologically. Yet schools do educate: they take the woolly mixed-up beliefs of entering students and train them in not just the "law" (whatever that is), but also in all the meta-law associated with how it works and should work. The distributions of Harvard and Yale are strikingly bimodal, while many of the other schools are strikingly unimodal. Yet I'm sure the students do not enter the programs that way. They enter with a much wider range of beliefs, norms and understandings, and leave with a much more coordinated, elite, politicized (in the sense of synced with existing political divisions) set of views. And even if one accepts that this is a necessary condition for education -- perhaps even the definition of education -- it is still the case that there are many possible ways to coordinate, and Harvard and Yale practice very specific types. Diversity diminishes and is aligned with established politics. There are a lot of ways of thinking about law (as any examination of any non-US legal system will show), and even more ways of thinking about justice. These schools have specific ways of doing it that are in turn deeply tied to elite legal thinking, but that's still a limitation. And if one is in favor of radical legal and political change, the bottleneck provided by these schools is a problem, even if one believed they were utterly meritocratic.
(And as a follow-up note, I realized halfway through writing the above that this is kind of an odd thing to find myself arguing here, since in this forum stuffed with those in and near academia, it's common to hear people complaining about the dominance of X or Y elite graduate program in field Z, where the complaint is not that X or Y aren't meritocratic, but that they train up their graduate students to approach the research questions in field Z in a specific way that prevents all sorts of alternative avenues of exploration. This is a very common complaint in academia, but it's no different in law than for other school/paradigm dominances in the sciences or humanities. The main differences is that in law, Harvard and Yale seem even more dominant that in most other branches of academia, and probably more so for down-stream careers than even the most committed meritocrat could explain via the pure merit of their graduates.)
posted by chortly at 11:34 AM on August 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
> TRUMP: Okay, look, I’ve had stories written about me – by your newspaper and by others – that are so false, that are written with such hatred – I’m not a bad person. I’m just doing my thing – I’m, you know, running, I want to do something that’s good.
He's one of those people who believes that intent outweighs everything else. His own intentions, at least - he certainly doesn't seem to care about the good intentions of other people. No one should talk about the negative outcomes of his intentions because hey, he's a good guy, he's trying to do good things!
posted by rtha at 11:39 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
He's one of those people who believes that intent outweighs everything else. His own intentions, at least - he certainly doesn't seem to care about the good intentions of other people. No one should talk about the negative outcomes of his intentions because hey, he's a good guy, he's trying to do good things!
posted by rtha at 11:39 AM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Triumph the Insult Comic Dog - Trump Supporters React to Outrageous Campaign Ads (warning: cringefest)
posted by Rhomboid at 11:50 AM on August 14, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by Rhomboid at 11:50 AM on August 14, 2016 [20 favorites]
@sepinwall Trump once tried to get me to retract an opinion column about Celebrity Apprentice.
There's probably someone out there who wasn't moved by Trump's attacks on Muslims, Mexicans, Gold Star parents, women, POWs, and hell even GOP leadership, but will take offense to this attack on America's favorite TV recapper.
posted by acidic at 12:00 PM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
There's probably someone out there who wasn't moved by Trump's attacks on Muslims, Mexicans, Gold Star parents, women, POWs, and hell even GOP leadership, but will take offense to this attack on America's favorite TV recapper.
posted by acidic at 12:00 PM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
The twisting they do before that to get out of asking for a specific retraction is hilarious. They just want it clear that this is a vague and I actionable threat, not a specific and legal one.
posted by Artw at 12:07 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 12:07 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Pence: Trump was being "serious" about Obama and ISIS.
posted by peacheater at 12:18 PM on August 14, 2016
posted by peacheater at 12:18 PM on August 14, 2016
But was Pence being sarcastic?
posted by dis_integration at 12:23 PM on August 14, 2016 [28 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 12:23 PM on August 14, 2016 [28 favorites]
"I think he was being very serious," Pence said. "He was making a point that needs to be made, that there is no question that the failed policies of President Barack Obama and then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, in the wider Middle East, created a vacuum within Iraq in which ISIS was able to arise."
Pence said Trump was making a "serious point" to call attention to the issue.
"Donald Trump has a way of talking to get people's attention, and it's drawn attention to a very important issue," Pence said
So he was serious, but actually "making a point", so presumably don't take him too seriously.
posted by Artw at 12:25 PM on August 14, 2016
Pence said Trump was making a "serious point" to call attention to the issue.
"Donald Trump has a way of talking to get people's attention, and it's drawn attention to a very important issue," Pence said
So he was serious, but actually "making a point", so presumably don't take him too seriously.
posted by Artw at 12:25 PM on August 14, 2016
It is not "freedom of the press" when newspapers and others are allowed to say and write whatever they want even if it is completely false!
This from a guy who cited a story from the National Enquirer in an attack on his rival.
Sometimes I think that this is all a piece of performance art that got out of hand.
posted by nubs at 12:25 PM on August 14, 2016 [15 favorites]
This from a guy who cited a story from the National Enquirer in an attack on his rival.
Sometimes I think that this is all a piece of performance art that got out of hand.
posted by nubs at 12:25 PM on August 14, 2016 [15 favorites]
Unsure if the use of the VP as proxy means people with "making a point to draw attention" get to cross that one off their Trumo as Dumb Internet Troll Bingo card.
posted by Artw at 12:27 PM on August 14, 2016
posted by Artw at 12:27 PM on August 14, 2016
Mr. Trump is effectively delivering messages...while Hillary Clinton takes in-campaign vacations.
WTF is that about? Is it connected to Trump's shocking discovery that she sleeps?
It sounds like when my wife and I say everything we do without our two young boys in tow are a date. Grocery shopping as a "lone" couple? A date! Picking up some paint to repaint the bathroom? A date!
In that vein, every time HRC sleeps? Vacation! Turns off the TV and puts her phone(s) on silent for a 15 minute break from everything? Vacation!
posted by filthy light thief at 12:29 PM on August 14, 2016 [15 favorites]
WTF is that about? Is it connected to Trump's shocking discovery that she sleeps?
It sounds like when my wife and I say everything we do without our two young boys in tow are a date. Grocery shopping as a "lone" couple? A date! Picking up some paint to repaint the bathroom? A date!
In that vein, every time HRC sleeps? Vacation! Turns off the TV and puts her phone(s) on silent for a 15 minute break from everything? Vacation!
posted by filthy light thief at 12:29 PM on August 14, 2016 [15 favorites]
Oh Christ, now every comment from Trump or Pence is going to be followed up with, "are you being sarcastic or not" and then we'll have to parse them like those logic puzzles that Martin Gardner used to run in the back of Scientific American...
...where there's a village full of liars and another village full of truth-tellers and a third village where they alternate between lying and truth-telling, and you can only ask one question, and and and...
posted by notsnot at 12:29 PM on August 14, 2016 [24 favorites]
...where there's a village full of liars and another village full of truth-tellers and a third village where they alternate between lying and truth-telling, and you can only ask one question, and and and...
posted by notsnot at 12:29 PM on August 14, 2016 [24 favorites]
Sometimes I think that this is all a piece of performance art that got out of hand.
Well, I think we've all been there. This game is getting boring and tedious following the conventional strategy, I'm going to make up some arbitrary rule strategy. What if I play Civilization without ever attacking anyone? What if my character had zero intelligence? What if I always raise the pot no matter what? Like I said before, it's a Jon Bois bit.
The thing is, nobody doing that expects to win.
posted by ctmf at 12:33 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
Well, I think we've all been there. This game is getting boring and tedious following the conventional strategy, I'm going to make up some arbitrary rule strategy. What if I play Civilization without ever attacking anyone? What if my character had zero intelligence? What if I always raise the pot no matter what? Like I said before, it's a Jon Bois bit.
The thing is, nobody doing that expects to win.
posted by ctmf at 12:33 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
We're now playing Election Legacy Edition, where the rules change during each round of play.
posted by parki at 12:34 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by parki at 12:34 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
I'm enjoying birdrightsactivist's parodies of Trump's latest Twitter meltdown. (N.B. birdrightsactivist's schtick is that he's an entitled and angry robin.)
CROOKED MEDIA DOESNT EVEN REPORT IM THE BIGGEST ANIMAL I WOULD BE BEATING hilLIElary BY 50000%%%%
ALSO HOW COME CROOKED MEDIA (more like mediLIE) DONT REPORT THAT I WINNING AMERICA??? JUST BECAISE THHERE NO "EVDIDENCE"???? SAD.
CORRUPT """MEDIAS""" WOULD HAVE YOU BLELIVE I SITTING ALONE WITH STOLEN BAGGEL. FALSE. I HAVE TWO BAGGLE.
posted by a car full of lions at 12:40 PM on August 14, 2016 [32 favorites]
CROOKED MEDIA DOESNT EVEN REPORT IM THE BIGGEST ANIMAL I WOULD BE BEATING hilLIElary BY 50000%%%%
ALSO HOW COME CROOKED MEDIA (more like mediLIE) DONT REPORT THAT I WINNING AMERICA??? JUST BECAISE THHERE NO "EVDIDENCE"???? SAD.
CORRUPT """MEDIAS""" WOULD HAVE YOU BLELIVE I SITTING ALONE WITH STOLEN BAGGEL. FALSE. I HAVE TWO BAGGLE.
posted by a car full of lions at 12:40 PM on August 14, 2016 [32 favorites]
Another "up yours, NPR" story explores the mystery of Why Are The Media Obsessed With Trump's Controversies And Not Clinton's?, a question raised by such other fine organizations like the Media Research Center ("The Leader in Documenting, Exposing and Neutralizing Liberal Media Bias") and the Washington Examiner.
Hmmm?
Apparently it's not because one of them is a typical politician with a standard amount of closet skeletons and one is a walking personification of Three Mile Island. Instead, Trump is just so darn wacky. So while Hillary's emails "underscore existing concerns about Clinton's ethics and transparency," Trump is "a riveting figure of ongoing fascination" who "says and does things that are different, that stand out, that surprise and even alter the landscape."
Never mind what exactly he is saying and doing that's getting mainstream media so het up. Why, no one picked up the story of the lawsuit against Hillary filed on behalf of the Benghazi soldier's mother because everyone was so focused on that whole "suggesting the assassination of a political rival" kerfuffle.
This story, along with yesterday's story about Trump's call to "watch" polling places, which ended with a reminder that liberals also use voter intimidation because look at the Black Panthers, has been making me wonder what the fuck happened to NPR? I don't remember them being so fond of mealy-mouthed false equivalence in past elections, especially when compared to the more mainstream news organizations.
posted by bibliowench at 12:42 PM on August 14, 2016 [33 favorites]
Hmmm?
Apparently it's not because one of them is a typical politician with a standard amount of closet skeletons and one is a walking personification of Three Mile Island. Instead, Trump is just so darn wacky. So while Hillary's emails "underscore existing concerns about Clinton's ethics and transparency," Trump is "a riveting figure of ongoing fascination" who "says and does things that are different, that stand out, that surprise and even alter the landscape."
Never mind what exactly he is saying and doing that's getting mainstream media so het up. Why, no one picked up the story of the lawsuit against Hillary filed on behalf of the Benghazi soldier's mother because everyone was so focused on that whole "suggesting the assassination of a political rival" kerfuffle.
This story, along with yesterday's story about Trump's call to "watch" polling places, which ended with a reminder that liberals also use voter intimidation because look at the Black Panthers, has been making me wonder what the fuck happened to NPR? I don't remember them being so fond of mealy-mouthed false equivalence in past elections, especially when compared to the more mainstream news organizations.
posted by bibliowench at 12:42 PM on August 14, 2016 [33 favorites]
After the whole defund public radio and tv push a while back, they had to decide on a strategy. Put away the swords and lie low, or double down and count on allies to have their back. Guess they're not too confident allies have their back.
posted by ctmf at 12:50 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 12:50 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Another "up yours, NPR" story explores the mystery of Why Are The Media Obsessed With Trump's Controversies And Not Clinton's?, a question raised by such other fine organizations like the Media Research Center ("The Leader in Documenting, Exposing and Neutralizing Liberal Media Bias") and the Washington Examiner.
Because Hillary listens. Like for instance the Nancy Reagan AIDS comments. She immediately knew she fucked up as soon as all of her friends started BBMing her with "WHAT DID YOU DO?". She issued a statement apologizing pretty rapidly and then she writes a fucking essay about her being wrong. She reached out to all the players that represented groups, made sure that they knew she fucked up and took their concerns seriously.
THAT'S WHAT RESPONSIBLE ADULTS DO WHEN THEY MAKE OWN GOAL FUCKUPS.
posted by Talez at 12:51 PM on August 14, 2016 [103 favorites]
Because Hillary listens. Like for instance the Nancy Reagan AIDS comments. She immediately knew she fucked up as soon as all of her friends started BBMing her with "WHAT DID YOU DO?". She issued a statement apologizing pretty rapidly and then she writes a fucking essay about her being wrong. She reached out to all the players that represented groups, made sure that they knew she fucked up and took their concerns seriously.
THAT'S WHAT RESPONSIBLE ADULTS DO WHEN THEY MAKE OWN GOAL FUCKUPS.
posted by Talez at 12:51 PM on August 14, 2016 [103 favorites]
There needs to be some more organized campaign to pressure NPR to get its shit together. Suggesting that the media isn't obsessed with Hillary's controversies is an untrue statement. It isn't a matter of opinion, it can be easily weighed against airtime and other metrics and be proven false.
posted by humanfont at 1:00 PM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 1:00 PM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
I thought that NPR piece was a good effort in trying to explain to people who think the media is being biased against Trump and for Hillary why it's just the case that Trump makes more gaffes, has more newsworthy upset. For example:
posted by dis_integration at 1:04 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Let's talk about the elements of a cycle-dominating story. It needs to be timely, substantial and at least somewhat credible.Implication: what the right wants to push about Clinton is usually old news, thin, or without merit (or most often: all three), and then we get:
By contrast, the implications surrounding the Clinton emails exhumed by court order are a routine species of scandal stamp-collecting. And they are the fruit of conservative activists and advocates who have been generating anti-Clinton material since her husband was president. ... Still, the recycling of the email story lacks an immediate bite or sting.I think this is pretty tactful balanced reporting, not teach the controversy nonsense but an attempt to reach people who think THE SYSTEM IS RIGGED without alienating them.
posted by dis_integration at 1:04 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
The twisting they do before that to get out of asking for a specific retraction is hilarious. They just want it clear that this is a vague and I actionable threat, not a specific and legal one.
There are very good and legit reasons to stop short of an outright statement of intent to sue. Which is not to say that there aren't plenty of empty uses of that vagueness but aggrevied parties with valid complaints use that style on first contact too.
posted by phearlez at 1:09 PM on August 14, 2016
There are very good and legit reasons to stop short of an outright statement of intent to sue. Which is not to say that there aren't plenty of empty uses of that vagueness but aggrevied parties with valid complaints use that style on first contact too.
posted by phearlez at 1:09 PM on August 14, 2016
Trump's butthurt tweets over the NYT piece strongly validate it, exactly as his tweets about Khan not having the right to claim he hadn't read the Constitution proved Khan right.
Which means Trump learned precisely nothing from one of his first major pratfalls, and that his advisors and the RNC have every reason to believe he really is incapable of changing even a little.
I think that's a done deal. He is what he is, and he cannot get any further.
posted by Devonian at 1:11 PM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
Which means Trump learned precisely nothing from one of his first major pratfalls, and that his advisors and the RNC have every reason to believe he really is incapable of changing even a little.
I think that's a done deal. He is what he is, and he cannot get any further.
posted by Devonian at 1:11 PM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
The Green party are now certifiably insane. Their VP candidate, Ajamu Baraka, has been busy being a truther and agreeing with Kevin Barrett slamming jews on anti-semitic podcasts in his free time.
posted by Talez at 1:14 PM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Talez at 1:14 PM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
Holy moly, I've actually caught up with the election threads after having been unable to watch or read about either of the party conventions while they were happening!
So some comments about things that were said over that period:
corb, I'm so sorry about what you had to go through at the convention. Your updates were the most interesting thing about the RNC threads.
I'm extremely glad I was too busy to follow the RNC in real time. I think I would have burst a blood vessel or something.
I've realized that listening to or actually watching Trump is orders of magnitude worse than just reading what he's said, which is pretty awful anyway. So I don't watch his speeches at all and I'm very glad I can just read about them here.
The DNC, I watched a lot of the speeches on YouTube. As some of you know, I work with debaters a lot, so great political speeches are pretty much like crack for me. But I don't have anything to say about the big name speeches that hasn't already been said. However...
The KHANS!!! They're originally from my hometown! They are totally typical of educated professional class Pakistanis of my parents' generation. And totally typical of educated professional class Pakistani American immigrants of my parents' generation. The nerdy obsession with handing out copies of the Constitution, the genuine love of the possibilities that American society can provide, the deep outrage at the public pummeling our whole community has been subjected to, the deeply emotional death stare of Mrs Khan. The joke amongst my friends is that even when you're halfway around the world, when you're doing something that could get you in trouble with Mom, you can just feel the laser beam between your shoulder blades. That's the look she sent out. Quick pedantic note: She was not wearing a hijab, but rather a dupatta on her head, which makes her as a middle of the road Pakistani woman, where the hijab would mark her as being either a more conservative or a more political Muslim, or both.
It was such a relief to have his and other Muslims' statements feature prominently at the DNC. It bothers me tremendously that it required the impeccable credentials of being Gold Star parents for their statement to resonate as much as it did, even as I admire the political savvy of putting forward people so difficult to assail. And the crazies still went after them! It is so insulting for the default assumption to be that one is a terrorist. The stories of people being pulled off of planes because they look wrong or speak the wrong language, of patients refusing to be treated by Muslim doctors, these are body blows. And having Khizr Sahib stand up and challenge all of that so clearly, so proudly, was balm to the bruises from all those body blows.
This odious man, the ideas he espouses, the even more odious people he emboldens and enables, they need a huge drubbing at the polls. If they aren't thoroughly repudiated by the American electorate, there is some important part of me that will die. Ever since I was a kid whose father talked about how the American constitution was the only existing blueprint for governance that came close to being in line with Islamic ideals, I've seen how we fall short on the practice of those principles. But accepting Trump would be an abandonment of the agreement that those are in fact, our ideals.
The polls look promising for now. I never did see an answer to the question of whether it was possible to phonebank or do other campaign volunteering as an American citizen living abroad.
And now back to the current state of the election...
posted by bardophile at 1:17 PM on August 14, 2016 [145 favorites]
So some comments about things that were said over that period:
corb, I'm so sorry about what you had to go through at the convention. Your updates were the most interesting thing about the RNC threads.
I'm extremely glad I was too busy to follow the RNC in real time. I think I would have burst a blood vessel or something.
I've realized that listening to or actually watching Trump is orders of magnitude worse than just reading what he's said, which is pretty awful anyway. So I don't watch his speeches at all and I'm very glad I can just read about them here.
The DNC, I watched a lot of the speeches on YouTube. As some of you know, I work with debaters a lot, so great political speeches are pretty much like crack for me. But I don't have anything to say about the big name speeches that hasn't already been said. However...
The KHANS!!! They're originally from my hometown! They are totally typical of educated professional class Pakistanis of my parents' generation. And totally typical of educated professional class Pakistani American immigrants of my parents' generation. The nerdy obsession with handing out copies of the Constitution, the genuine love of the possibilities that American society can provide, the deep outrage at the public pummeling our whole community has been subjected to, the deeply emotional death stare of Mrs Khan. The joke amongst my friends is that even when you're halfway around the world, when you're doing something that could get you in trouble with Mom, you can just feel the laser beam between your shoulder blades. That's the look she sent out. Quick pedantic note: She was not wearing a hijab, but rather a dupatta on her head, which makes her as a middle of the road Pakistani woman, where the hijab would mark her as being either a more conservative or a more political Muslim, or both.
It was such a relief to have his and other Muslims' statements feature prominently at the DNC. It bothers me tremendously that it required the impeccable credentials of being Gold Star parents for their statement to resonate as much as it did, even as I admire the political savvy of putting forward people so difficult to assail. And the crazies still went after them! It is so insulting for the default assumption to be that one is a terrorist. The stories of people being pulled off of planes because they look wrong or speak the wrong language, of patients refusing to be treated by Muslim doctors, these are body blows. And having Khizr Sahib stand up and challenge all of that so clearly, so proudly, was balm to the bruises from all those body blows.
This odious man, the ideas he espouses, the even more odious people he emboldens and enables, they need a huge drubbing at the polls. If they aren't thoroughly repudiated by the American electorate, there is some important part of me that will die. Ever since I was a kid whose father talked about how the American constitution was the only existing blueprint for governance that came close to being in line with Islamic ideals, I've seen how we fall short on the practice of those principles. But accepting Trump would be an abandonment of the agreement that those are in fact, our ideals.
The polls look promising for now. I never did see an answer to the question of whether it was possible to phonebank or do other campaign volunteering as an American citizen living abroad.
And now back to the current state of the election...
posted by bardophile at 1:17 PM on August 14, 2016 [145 favorites]
In conclusion, attitudes about NPR reporting are a land of contrasts.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:17 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 1:17 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Triumph the Insult Comic Dog - Trump Supporters React to Outrageous Campaign Ads
Robert Smigel is a national treasure.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:18 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Robert Smigel is a national treasure.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:18 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
The thing is that Trump literally accused the Times of making up quotes (and Jason Miller tries to play both sides by making that accusation and then saying he isn't). Yes, it's obviously happened before and it could well happen again, but the seriousness of that charge is still incredible. It is maybe a half a step less than accusing a reporter of murder. If you're going to make that kind of accusation in public, you don't just throw it out there, you put out a detailed refutation and make damn sure you've got evidence.
Vague and generic claims about the media being terrible, biased, etc... are one thing, but accusing the NYT of fabricating quotes is something far more serious, and I don't think Trump has any clue of the distinction.
posted by zachlipton at 1:20 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
Vague and generic claims about the media being terrible, biased, etc... are one thing, but accusing the NYT of fabricating quotes is something far more serious, and I don't think Trump has any clue of the distinction.
posted by zachlipton at 1:20 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
There needs to be some more organized campaign to pressure NPR to get its shit together.
...like say, a pledge drive demonstrating support from critically thinking liberal constituencies?
Or maybe a willingness to defend the paltry level of funding they still get via Congress through political action and vocal support?
posted by Miko at 1:23 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
...like say, a pledge drive demonstrating support from critically thinking liberal constituencies?
Or maybe a willingness to defend the paltry level of funding they still get via Congress through political action and vocal support?
posted by Miko at 1:23 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
ever since I was a kid whose father talked about how the American constitution was the only existing blueprint for governance that came close to being in line with Islamic ideals
This sounds cool. Please feel free to expand.
posted by feral_goldfish at 1:24 PM on August 14, 2016 [26 favorites]
This sounds cool. Please feel free to expand.
posted by feral_goldfish at 1:24 PM on August 14, 2016 [26 favorites]
Thanks for the insights bardophile, and I was previously unaware of the political distinction between hijabs and dupattas.
posted by porpoise at 1:25 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by porpoise at 1:25 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
The Trump team doesn't appear to be saying the Times made up sources. They're saying the anonymous sources are lying, and that's why they're anonymous.
posted by ctmf at 1:27 PM on August 14, 2016
posted by ctmf at 1:27 PM on August 14, 2016
I never did see an answer to the question of whether it was possible to phonebank or do other campaign volunteering as an American citizen living abroad.
It should be possible to phonebank from abroad. Can you try https://www.hillaryclinton.com/calls/ and see how far you get?
posted by peacheater at 1:37 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
It should be possible to phonebank from abroad. Can you try https://www.hillaryclinton.com/calls/ and see how far you get?
posted by peacheater at 1:37 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
To be clearer, the dupatta is indigenous to Pakistan. Covering one's head with it when in the public eye is very common amongst Pakistani women. The hijab is more closely associated with the Middle East. When you see a Pakistani or Pakistani American woman wearing a hijab, she's making a conscious choice to take on this culturally foreign head covering. In my experience, that choice usually stems from having become more religiously conservative (the hijab covers one's hair more completely), from wanting to signal one's Muslim identity (dupattas are used by Muslims and non-Muslims alike), or some combination of those two.
posted by bardophile at 1:38 PM on August 14, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by bardophile at 1:38 PM on August 14, 2016 [27 favorites]
You can't tell whether this was combined with a fiery call to arms and 'Get out there and save the world' that wasn't reported, but the subtle scent of capitulation is beginning to waft in...
Less than 90 days before the November election, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said the odds of Republicans maintaining control of the Senate are “very dicey.”
While on recess in his home state, the Kentucky Republican told a Louisville-area civic group Thursday that Republicans are in a “dogfight” to fend off Democrats fighting to win Senate seats, according to the Associated Press.
Listing the Senate races in New Hampshire, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, Florida, and Indiana as “very competitive,” he said that Senate Republicans will need to be “on defense” in the upcoming election.
“I may or may not be calling the shots next year," said McConnell, who became the majority leader after the GOP won control of the Senate in the 2014 election.
posted by Devonian at 1:39 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Less than 90 days before the November election, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said the odds of Republicans maintaining control of the Senate are “very dicey.”
While on recess in his home state, the Kentucky Republican told a Louisville-area civic group Thursday that Republicans are in a “dogfight” to fend off Democrats fighting to win Senate seats, according to the Associated Press.
Listing the Senate races in New Hampshire, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, Florida, and Indiana as “very competitive,” he said that Senate Republicans will need to be “on defense” in the upcoming election.
“I may or may not be calling the shots next year," said McConnell, who became the majority leader after the GOP won control of the Senate in the 2014 election.
posted by Devonian at 1:39 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
This game is getting boring and tedious following the conventional strategy, I'm going to make up some arbitrary rule strategy.
Once we were really high and decided to play Monopoly without money. It was hilarious.
posted by threeturtles at 1:41 PM on August 14, 2016 [12 favorites]
Once we were really high and decided to play Monopoly without money. It was hilarious.
posted by threeturtles at 1:41 PM on August 14, 2016 [12 favorites]
Is there any doubt that at least one (and possibly many) of the members of the "Trump Team" claiming "the anonymous sources are lying" IS among the anonymous sources? And the NYT is hating its "journalistic standard" to never betray a source promised anonymity right now? And some members of the "Trump Team" consider this a victory?
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:42 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:42 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
A fun game is trying to figure out which campaign people calling the anonymous sources liars are themselves the sources.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:42 PM on August 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 1:42 PM on August 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
I don't get the impression that the NYT is sweating this very much at all.
posted by codacorolla at 1:43 PM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 1:43 PM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
(dupattas are used by Muslims and non-Muslims alike)
To further clarify, they're not necessarily only worn as a head covering, can also be worn as a scarf (as a non-Muslim Indian that's the most common context in which I've seen them).
posted by peacheater at 1:45 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
To further clarify, they're not necessarily only worn as a head covering, can also be worn as a scarf (as a non-Muslim Indian that's the most common context in which I've seen them).
posted by peacheater at 1:45 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wow, Jill Stein is incapable of embarrassment:
Clinton's right: Trump's rhetoric strengthens ISIS. Trump's right: Clinton's wars created ISIS. We must stop these warmongers. #NoMoreWar
posted by peacheater at 1:47 PM on August 14, 2016
Clinton's right: Trump's rhetoric strengthens ISIS. Trump's right: Clinton's wars created ISIS. We must stop these warmongers. #NoMoreWar
posted by peacheater at 1:47 PM on August 14, 2016
The Trump team doesn't appear to be saying the Times made up sources. They're saying the anonymous sources are lying, and that's why they're anonymous.
"The failing @nytimes has become a newspaper of fiction. Their stories about me always quote non-existent unnamed sources. Very dishonest!" --@realDonaldTrump
"The failing @nytimes talks about anonymous sources and meetings that never happened. Their reporting is fiction. The media protects Hillary!" --@realDonaldTrump
Also see the back-and-forth with Trump comms guy @JasonMillerinDC here, where he tries to have it both ways, claiming that it isn't about manufacturing sources, but also talks about "these supposed sources" and "someone is writing down and believing that they're talking to someone."
There's obviously a bit of ambiguity, but a lot of that crosses the line from "anonymous sources are lying" to "reporter is fabricating quotes." If it was the former, the complaint should be "somebody goes out and lies about me and the NYT believes it all and reports them as an anonymous source," not that the sources themselves are "non-existent" and "supposed."
There are some pretty darn legitimate criticisms of the Times' use of anonymous sources in political stories, but this isn't a good way to make them.
posted by zachlipton at 1:48 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
"The failing @nytimes has become a newspaper of fiction. Their stories about me always quote non-existent unnamed sources. Very dishonest!" --@realDonaldTrump
"The failing @nytimes talks about anonymous sources and meetings that never happened. Their reporting is fiction. The media protects Hillary!" --@realDonaldTrump
Also see the back-and-forth with Trump comms guy @JasonMillerinDC here, where he tries to have it both ways, claiming that it isn't about manufacturing sources, but also talks about "these supposed sources" and "someone is writing down and believing that they're talking to someone."
There's obviously a bit of ambiguity, but a lot of that crosses the line from "anonymous sources are lying" to "reporter is fabricating quotes." If it was the former, the complaint should be "somebody goes out and lies about me and the NYT believes it all and reports them as an anonymous source," not that the sources themselves are "non-existent" and "supposed."
There are some pretty darn legitimate criticisms of the Times' use of anonymous sources in political stories, but this isn't a good way to make them.
posted by zachlipton at 1:48 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
Is there any doubt that at least one (and possibly many) of the members of the "Trump Team" claiming "the anonymous sources are lying" IS among the anonymous sources?
I doubt it. I suspect the anonymous source are secretaries ("administrative assistants"), mailroom clerks, or other menial-task assistants, possibly interns if there are any of those involved.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:51 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
I doubt it. I suspect the anonymous source are secretaries ("administrative assistants"), mailroom clerks, or other menial-task assistants, possibly interns if there are any of those involved.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:51 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sad!
posted by spitbull at 1:51 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 1:51 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
I doubt it. I suspect the anonymous source are secretaries ("administrative assistants"), mailroom clerks, or other menial-task assistants, possibly interns if there are any of those involved.
Really? I wouldn't be surprised at all if one of their anonymous sources was none other than Paul Manafort.
posted by dis_integration at 1:53 PM on August 14, 2016 [19 favorites]
Really? I wouldn't be surprised at all if one of their anonymous sources was none other than Paul Manafort.
posted by dis_integration at 1:53 PM on August 14, 2016 [19 favorites]
After all, if he's going to keep his career going and not go down with the Trumptanic, he needs to get the story out there that Trump is the one sabotaging the campaign, while he does his best to get him in line.
posted by dis_integration at 1:57 PM on August 14, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 1:57 PM on August 14, 2016 [15 favorites]
This weekend, my family received two robocalls inviting us to a Pence event. We won't be going.
Instead, in the past eight days, I've been phone banking twice and canvassing once for Clinton and other Democrats. I plan to keep it up at least once a week.
posted by maurreen at 1:57 PM on August 14, 2016 [21 favorites]
Instead, in the past eight days, I've been phone banking twice and canvassing once for Clinton and other Democrats. I plan to keep it up at least once a week.
posted by maurreen at 1:57 PM on August 14, 2016 [21 favorites]
Really? I wouldn't be surprised at all if one of their anonymous sources was none other than Paul Manafort.
Not saying right or wrong, with this election campaign anything is possible. Why would Manafort play this way? Why would he?
I know I wouldn't be surprised if there is at least one or two people who are there knowing full well they have a chance to make a whole lotta $ writing and speaking about this when it's over.
posted by Jalliah at 1:58 PM on August 14, 2016
Not saying right or wrong, with this election campaign anything is possible. Why would Manafort play this way? Why would he?
I know I wouldn't be surprised if there is at least one or two people who are there knowing full well they have a chance to make a whole lotta $ writing and speaking about this when it's over.
posted by Jalliah at 1:58 PM on August 14, 2016
Nope, I'd say The Media, including the "failing @nytimes" is still protecting Trumpy. If not, the biggest story about him this year would contain a list of all the Russian mobsters he is in debt to. But then, maybe they're still ashamed they protected Trumpy when the obvious story was how much he owed New Jersey mobsters when he got his Atlantic City casino built.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:00 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:00 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
You know, I'd actually be willing to drum up more sympathy for Mr. Trump if he and his mouthpieces hadn't already outright lied or merely prevaricated on so many occasions. As an outside observer, it's impossible to distinguish between Trump fauxtrage and actual outrage, rendering any of his criticisms of the media or election season invalid. He has become such a ridiculous punchline that anyone could write anything about him and it would be believable. And he and his campaign apparatus have only themselves to blame.
"The failing @nytimes talks about anonymous sources and meetings that never happened. Their reporting is fiction. The media protects Hillary!" --@realDonaldTrump
posted by xyzzy at 2:03 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
Please stop saying "Trumpy."
posted by adamgreenfield at 2:04 PM on August 14, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by adamgreenfield at 2:04 PM on August 14, 2016 [18 favorites]
I'm at a Hillary campaign volunteer training event right now. (Got my red Hillary pin!) "Don't ever take any election for granted," Jesse White, Illinois Secretary of State said, got a big round of applause. No complacency here.
posted by the wine-dark sea at 2:08 PM on August 14, 2016 [28 favorites]
posted by the wine-dark sea at 2:08 PM on August 14, 2016 [28 favorites]
After all, if he's going to keep his career going and not go down with the Trumptanic, he needs to get the story out there that Trump is the one sabotaging the campaign, while he does his best to get him in line.
This holds true for any of the campaign staffers, except maybe Lewandowski (who is out but still gets hit up for advice, if the news is to be believed).
If anything,the problem is going to be staffers exaggerating Trump's disfunction...
posted by Going To Maine at 2:09 PM on August 14, 2016
This holds true for any of the campaign staffers, except maybe Lewandowski (who is out but still gets hit up for advice, if the news is to be believed).
If anything,the problem is going to be staffers exaggerating Trump's disfunction...
posted by Going To Maine at 2:09 PM on August 14, 2016
I've received a Trump solicitation, and this weekend my wife did as well. Neither of us have been near the Republican Party in 20 years.
Their targeting is way, way off.
posted by dw at 2:11 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
Their targeting is way, way off.
posted by dw at 2:11 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
Reporting in from battleground North Carolina. I volunteered with the local Dem Party and spent two hours this afternoon standing in front of a Dollar Store asking people if they were registered to vote and offering to register them if they weren't. I probably talked to 40+ people and only registered two. Most folks claimed to be already registered, the five or six who weren't claimed they were too busy. I told them about the deadline and gave them info about where to register. It was a little discouraging but much better than sitting on the couch yelling at Trump surrogates on TV.
I posted what I was doing on Facebook and my lefty friends got all excited. I'm known as a pretty sedentary and introverted person, so I'm hoping at least one of those people will say "If marxchivist can do that, then so can I.
posted by marxchivist at 2:12 PM on August 14, 2016 [60 favorites]
I posted what I was doing on Facebook and my lefty friends got all excited. I'm known as a pretty sedentary and introverted person, so I'm hoping at least one of those people will say "If marxchivist can do that, then so can I.
posted by marxchivist at 2:12 PM on August 14, 2016 [60 favorites]
Their targeting is way, way off.
I've found that signs and answering machine messages that begin with FUCK A BIG BAG OF DONALD TRUMP get the message across nicely.
posted by Mooski at 2:13 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
I've found that signs and answering machine messages that begin with FUCK A BIG BAG OF DONALD TRUMP get the message across nicely.
posted by Mooski at 2:13 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
People are saying Trump wants to abolish -- essentially abolish the First Amendment. By the way, if he gets to pick, if he gets to pick his spokespeople, nothing you can do, folks. Although the First Amendment people, maybe there is, I don't know.
posted by peeedro at 2:16 PM on August 14, 2016 [80 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 2:16 PM on August 14, 2016 [80 favorites]
I don't know why the NYT doesn't just adopt the "many people say" standard that Trump uses. Or "my friend, a great guy, said that..."
I am finally caught up with these threads again. I was tempted to just skip to the end, but I like what y'all have to say!
But I will be falling behind again soon. I have a vacation starting Thursday so won't be much online for the 8 or 9 days while I am away. I am already getting facial tics just contemplating how far I will fall behind. The horror!
posted by madamjujujive at 2:16 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
I am finally caught up with these threads again. I was tempted to just skip to the end, but I like what y'all have to say!
But I will be falling behind again soon. I have a vacation starting Thursday so won't be much online for the 8 or 9 days while I am away. I am already getting facial tics just contemplating how far I will fall behind. The horror!
posted by madamjujujive at 2:16 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
I do not believe Burns and Haberman rely on low level staffers when they are characterizing what amounts to an implosion of loyalty in the Trump campaign. They can be annoying but they're at the top of the profession writing for the paper of record and the quality of your anonymous sourcing can make all the difference to your reputation-- ask Judith Miller or Woodward and Bernstein.
Maybe a longtime low-level staffer, but not interns or others who have no skin in the game. Among other things an anonymous source, if outed, can face serious retribution and there's an ethical issue in exposing low level staffers who have no personal stake in a poltical enterprise to the risk of falling on their swords or losing their careers.
A tip might come from someone at the bottom, or a confirmation of a damning fact. But when the sources are characterizing the mental state of a major party candidate for president in no uncertain terms to Burns and Haberman from the Times, you can bet someone close to Trump himself is the source. I'm sure there was more than one editorial meeting on the subject.
posted by spitbull at 2:17 PM on August 14, 2016 [28 favorites]
Maybe a longtime low-level staffer, but not interns or others who have no skin in the game. Among other things an anonymous source, if outed, can face serious retribution and there's an ethical issue in exposing low level staffers who have no personal stake in a poltical enterprise to the risk of falling on their swords or losing their careers.
A tip might come from someone at the bottom, or a confirmation of a damning fact. But when the sources are characterizing the mental state of a major party candidate for president in no uncertain terms to Burns and Haberman from the Times, you can bet someone close to Trump himself is the source. I'm sure there was more than one editorial meeting on the subject.
posted by spitbull at 2:17 PM on August 14, 2016 [28 favorites]
Although the First Amendment people, maybe there is, I don't know
They do say the pen is mightier than the AR-16.
posted by dis_integration at 2:17 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
They do say the pen is mightier than the AR-16.
posted by dis_integration at 2:17 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
> ...if one of my relatives were a hedge fund manager you can bet my dough would be in that hedge fund making me returns hand-over-fist, not languishing in some anonymous index fund.
One of my relatives is a hedge fund manager. They have never encouraged any family members to invest with them; if anything they've actively discouraged it.
Hedge funds are high-yield because they're high risk, and they are solely the toys of wealthy entities for whom losses in the hundred-millions of dollars can dismissed as the cost of doing business, and churned into their books to be written off as a standard operating expense.
Proles like us would be destroyed by playing the market that way.
posted by at by at 2:28 PM on August 14, 2016 [16 favorites]
One of my relatives is a hedge fund manager. They have never encouraged any family members to invest with them; if anything they've actively discouraged it.
Hedge funds are high-yield because they're high risk, and they are solely the toys of wealthy entities for whom losses in the hundred-millions of dollars can dismissed as the cost of doing business, and churned into their books to be written off as a standard operating expense.
Proles like us would be destroyed by playing the market that way.
posted by at by at 2:28 PM on August 14, 2016 [16 favorites]
I don't know why the NYT doesn't just adopt the "many people say" standard that Trump uses. Or "my friend, a great guy, said that..."
Just an aside, but if you ever read early anthropological writings from the 19th century, the ultra-racist "scientific" claims are backed up by statements like "a gentleman in this country has observed their behavior on this matter, and he assures me that..." And this was considered valid scholarly discourse.
posted by teponaztli at 2:29 PM on August 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
Just an aside, but if you ever read early anthropological writings from the 19th century, the ultra-racist "scientific" claims are backed up by statements like "a gentleman in this country has observed their behavior on this matter, and he assures me that..." And this was considered valid scholarly discourse.
posted by teponaztli at 2:29 PM on August 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
Wow, an 11 minute gap. Thought the internet died.
posted by kingless at 2:32 PM on August 14, 2016 [23 favorites]
posted by kingless at 2:32 PM on August 14, 2016 [23 favorites]
And this was considered valid scholarly discourse.
Yeah, it's fascinating, isn't it? We hadn't gotten to the point where we had any reflexivity about agreed procedures for the production of collective truth. If there is much of a civilization in the years to come, I think it will have to start here: in conscious and overt agreements, at societal scale, about how we define that which is operationally true.
If there's anything these past few weeks have driven home for me, between Brexit happening to the land I live in and Donald J. Trump to the land I hail from, it's that public discourse needs some kind of broadly-agreed procedure for reality testing. I don't see how the project of human civilization is any longer tenable without one.
posted by adamgreenfield at 3:05 PM on August 14, 2016 [25 favorites]
Yeah, it's fascinating, isn't it? We hadn't gotten to the point where we had any reflexivity about agreed procedures for the production of collective truth. If there is much of a civilization in the years to come, I think it will have to start here: in conscious and overt agreements, at societal scale, about how we define that which is operationally true.
If there's anything these past few weeks have driven home for me, between Brexit happening to the land I live in and Donald J. Trump to the land I hail from, it's that public discourse needs some kind of broadly-agreed procedure for reality testing. I don't see how the project of human civilization is any longer tenable without one.
posted by adamgreenfield at 3:05 PM on August 14, 2016 [25 favorites]
I ought to emphasize that I believe all "truths" to be local, situated, contingent, subject to verification, etc. I don't think you need any notion of transcendent absolute truth to say, "In our society, we agree that these are the procedures for testing reality, and that for the purposes of public policy we agree that only assertions to which we've applied these procedures will be accepted as true."
And then you have to specify how those procedures may be modified when they become inadequate. Turtles all the way down, and so on. But still: preferable by far to a world in which "Obama is the founder of ISIS" is entered into public debate, and not immediately rejected by our collective epistemic immune system.
posted by adamgreenfield at 3:13 PM on August 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
And then you have to specify how those procedures may be modified when they become inadequate. Turtles all the way down, and so on. But still: preferable by far to a world in which "Obama is the founder of ISIS" is entered into public debate, and not immediately rejected by our collective epistemic immune system.
posted by adamgreenfield at 3:13 PM on August 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
adamgreenfield - that realisation has been hitting the right wing commentariat too...
posted by Devonian at 3:16 PM on August 14, 2016 [29 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 3:16 PM on August 14, 2016 [29 favorites]
"In our society, we agree that these are the procedures for testing reality, and that for the purposes of public policy we agree that only assertions to which we've applied these procedures will be accepted as true.
That's what the legal system is for. Trial procedures and standards of evidence are exactly what you're asking for. And if anyone (including the person saying it) really believed Obama "founded ISIS" they'd bring charges of treason against him, and those charges would be subject to exactly those official procedures and standards. But nobody does believe it, so it won't even get far enough to get dismissed by a judge for not even meeting the most basic requirements of provable truth...
And yet, no doubt, people will keep repeating it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:19 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
That's what the legal system is for. Trial procedures and standards of evidence are exactly what you're asking for. And if anyone (including the person saying it) really believed Obama "founded ISIS" they'd bring charges of treason against him, and those charges would be subject to exactly those official procedures and standards. But nobody does believe it, so it won't even get far enough to get dismissed by a judge for not even meeting the most basic requirements of provable truth...
And yet, no doubt, people will keep repeating it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:19 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
secretaries ("administrative assistants"), mailroom clerks, or other menial-task assistants, possibly interns if there are any of those involved
The Merediths are everywhere. And they are getting pissed.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:20 PM on August 14, 2016 [13 favorites]
The Merediths are everywhere. And they are getting pissed.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:20 PM on August 14, 2016 [13 favorites]
I don't think it's enough to say that the legal system will take care of things. It's not enough, because people believe the "legal system" is biased too. Look at the number of people calling into question Comey's testimony from the Republican side, even though he's a Republican himself.
posted by peacheater at 3:21 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 3:21 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
I do not believe Burns and Haberman rely on low level staffers when they are characterizing what amounts to an implosion of loyalty in the Trump campaign.
Me neither. Campaign staff tend to gossip, especially on losing campaigns when everybody is trying to get their excuses on the record (though off the record) ahead of time. One of the more remarkable things about the Obama campaigns in '08 and '12 was its internal discipline, particularly the '08 primary when the Clinton campaign (with people like Mark Penn on board) was leaking like a sieve. Obama's election team behaved a lot more like Apple over product secrecy than a traditional US campaign. The Clinton '16 campaign seems to be a lot less chatty than the '08 one and that's probably because it has a lot more Obama people in senior positions.
posted by holgate at 3:22 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Me neither. Campaign staff tend to gossip, especially on losing campaigns when everybody is trying to get their excuses on the record (though off the record) ahead of time. One of the more remarkable things about the Obama campaigns in '08 and '12 was its internal discipline, particularly the '08 primary when the Clinton campaign (with people like Mark Penn on board) was leaking like a sieve. Obama's election team behaved a lot more like Apple over product secrecy than a traditional US campaign. The Clinton '16 campaign seems to be a lot less chatty than the '08 one and that's probably because it has a lot more Obama people in senior positions.
posted by holgate at 3:22 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
that realisation has been hitting the right wing commentariat too...
Even there he's still saying "there's a lot of bias" in the mainstream media. That's why there won't be a reality check, the Right's reality now really is whatever Trump and Hannity and Rush say it is. They worked for 40 years to come to this point, and now that they have their alternate reality, they're learning that when no one is an authority, everyone is the authority.
The African elephant tripled in population in the last 3 years. That's just truthiness.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:23 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
Even there he's still saying "there's a lot of bias" in the mainstream media. That's why there won't be a reality check, the Right's reality now really is whatever Trump and Hannity and Rush say it is. They worked for 40 years to come to this point, and now that they have their alternate reality, they're learning that when no one is an authority, everyone is the authority.
The African elephant tripled in population in the last 3 years. That's just truthiness.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:23 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
That's what the legal system is for.
Can't speak for adamgreenfield, but I've been pondering this a lot lately too, and the legal system isn't a remedy to our current chaos.
My angle has been that everyone is getting their news from increasingly fragmented sources, many of which have no vetting at all - a lot of my friends are just reading headlines without bothering to look at how or why current events are going on, and that's just the people I'd normally *trust*. Without some way to agree that 'here are a list of sources we can actually agree upon,' everyone's just going with their gut, and that way lies torches and pitchforks. Basically, there have to be nonpartisan outfits both sides are willing to listen to for just 'here are the events that occurred, we've got the tapes.' (I feel like it's a combination of the loss of the Fairness Doctrine, the slow death of print journalism and people getting more of their news from places like Facebook.)
I don't really see this being fixed any time soon either, and not just because of the FOX News crowd. I'm not sure my *own* people are amenable to it anymore.
posted by mordax at 3:28 PM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
Can't speak for adamgreenfield, but I've been pondering this a lot lately too, and the legal system isn't a remedy to our current chaos.
My angle has been that everyone is getting their news from increasingly fragmented sources, many of which have no vetting at all - a lot of my friends are just reading headlines without bothering to look at how or why current events are going on, and that's just the people I'd normally *trust*. Without some way to agree that 'here are a list of sources we can actually agree upon,' everyone's just going with their gut, and that way lies torches and pitchforks. Basically, there have to be nonpartisan outfits both sides are willing to listen to for just 'here are the events that occurred, we've got the tapes.' (I feel like it's a combination of the loss of the Fairness Doctrine, the slow death of print journalism and people getting more of their news from places like Facebook.)
I don't really see this being fixed any time soon either, and not just because of the FOX News crowd. I'm not sure my *own* people are amenable to it anymore.
posted by mordax at 3:28 PM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
It's not enough, because people believe the "legal system" is biased too. Look at the number of people calling into question Comey's testimony from the Republican side, even though he's a Republican himself.
Well of course they believe the legal system is biased. That is a core issue in this campaign: will we accept the rule of law (which presupposes that there can be methods, flawed certainly but still acceptable, that can adjudicate conflicting claims)?
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:31 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well of course they believe the legal system is biased. That is a core issue in this campaign: will we accept the rule of law (which presupposes that there can be methods, flawed certainly but still acceptable, that can adjudicate conflicting claims)?
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:31 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
I don't think it's enough to say that the legal system will take care of things.
I have to agree with this, though I wish I didn't. I don't blame anyone for not trusting a legal system that can produce a Freddie Gray outcome, to name only the most recent obscenity that comes to mind.
posted by adamgreenfield at 3:31 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
I have to agree with this, though I wish I didn't. I don't blame anyone for not trusting a legal system that can produce a Freddie Gray outcome, to name only the most recent obscenity that comes to mind.
posted by adamgreenfield at 3:31 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
I've received a Trump solicitation, and this weekend my wife did as well. Neither of us have been near the Republican Party in 20 years.
Their targeting is way, way off.
By any chance, were you and/or your wife donors to Bernie? I'm wondering if they're targeting Bernie supporters.
posted by palomar at 3:35 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
Their targeting is way, way off.
By any chance, were you and/or your wife donors to Bernie? I'm wondering if they're targeting Bernie supporters.
posted by palomar at 3:35 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
The man genuinely believes this, he's ensconced in like an alternate, talk-radio reality and is using his soapbox to promulgate the delusion that the media run by actual journalists is corrupt because they don't parrot these fantasies. That is kind of dangerous.
The thing is, there are an awful lot of people who believe the same thing. I've been super depressed by the friends and family who have rejected "mainstream media" since it doesn't reflect what they believe is true. Again, Trump is talking to his fan base. They really believe this, you know? That Trump is an honest businessman who is being opposed on all sides because of the corrupt establishment.
And it isn't just them-- I see the same thing on the left. People pushing links from vague left-wing sources and swearing that the mainstream media is in the hands of the pharmaceutical industry. These are the people who will vote for Stein no matter what giant stinker of an opinion she drops because they are convinced she's not being covered fairly because Establishment.
And the thing is that media is naturally biased. How can we have a discussion about the natural bias without throwing out any belief in journalism? I sometimes feel that as a nation we're getting much worse at nuance instead of better.
posted by frumiousb at 3:38 PM on August 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
The thing is, there are an awful lot of people who believe the same thing. I've been super depressed by the friends and family who have rejected "mainstream media" since it doesn't reflect what they believe is true. Again, Trump is talking to his fan base. They really believe this, you know? That Trump is an honest businessman who is being opposed on all sides because of the corrupt establishment.
And it isn't just them-- I see the same thing on the left. People pushing links from vague left-wing sources and swearing that the mainstream media is in the hands of the pharmaceutical industry. These are the people who will vote for Stein no matter what giant stinker of an opinion she drops because they are convinced she's not being covered fairly because Establishment.
And the thing is that media is naturally biased. How can we have a discussion about the natural bias without throwing out any belief in journalism? I sometimes feel that as a nation we're getting much worse at nuance instead of better.
posted by frumiousb at 3:38 PM on August 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
The legal system is not an arbiter of truth, it's the adjuducative arm of the political system. Nothing more.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:39 PM on August 14, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:39 PM on August 14, 2016 [9 favorites]
that public discourse needs some kind of broadly-agreed procedure for reality testing
Such processes exist, and used to exist. Not they're not problematic in themselves (truth is a tricky beast). But in general the problem isn't that we need them, it's that it's in the best interest of, first, organizations like the tobacco companies and energy companies to undermine them, and then it's been in the interest the right, primarily since the Bush years, to dismiss the credibility of mainstream adjudicators of truth, like universities, because it was politically expedient. Shit, there's a whole alternative to wikipedia (conservapedia) that exists solely so that conservatives can be sure to educate themselves about the world without ever running into anything that challenges their worldview. It's such a bizarre alternate universe, because it uses all the trappings of normal academic standards of citation and justification to paint a picture of the world entirely at odds with, well, the world. And it's so sincere.
How do we get ourselves out of the perspectival nihilism of the modern age? I have no idea. Nothing, not even education, seems capable of convincing people of the falsehood of something that it's in their best interest to be true. People are irrational meatbags, I guess.
posted by dis_integration at 3:42 PM on August 14, 2016 [12 favorites]
Such processes exist, and used to exist. Not they're not problematic in themselves (truth is a tricky beast). But in general the problem isn't that we need them, it's that it's in the best interest of, first, organizations like the tobacco companies and energy companies to undermine them, and then it's been in the interest the right, primarily since the Bush years, to dismiss the credibility of mainstream adjudicators of truth, like universities, because it was politically expedient. Shit, there's a whole alternative to wikipedia (conservapedia) that exists solely so that conservatives can be sure to educate themselves about the world without ever running into anything that challenges their worldview. It's such a bizarre alternate universe, because it uses all the trappings of normal academic standards of citation and justification to paint a picture of the world entirely at odds with, well, the world. And it's so sincere.
How do we get ourselves out of the perspectival nihilism of the modern age? I have no idea. Nothing, not even education, seems capable of convincing people of the falsehood of something that it's in their best interest to be true. People are irrational meatbags, I guess.
posted by dis_integration at 3:42 PM on August 14, 2016 [12 favorites]
And it isn't just them-- I see the same thing on the left.
Yeah, this. I swear I'm not drawing a false equivalence, and I do think this is a far bigger deal (and of far greater consequence) on the right. But my Facebook has been a little disheartening lately, with quite a few people I love and respect doubling down on various Jill Stein absurdities. I'm significantly further to the left on most issues than Bernie was, for example, but I like to think of myself as what we used to call a member of the reality-based community.
posted by adamgreenfield at 3:42 PM on August 14, 2016 [32 favorites]
Yeah, this. I swear I'm not drawing a false equivalence, and I do think this is a far bigger deal (and of far greater consequence) on the right. But my Facebook has been a little disheartening lately, with quite a few people I love and respect doubling down on various Jill Stein absurdities. I'm significantly further to the left on most issues than Bernie was, for example, but I like to think of myself as what we used to call a member of the reality-based community.
posted by adamgreenfield at 3:42 PM on August 14, 2016 [32 favorites]
Yeah, this. I swear I'm not drawing a false equivalence, and I do think this is a far bigger deal (and of far greater consequence) on the right. But my Facebook has been a little disheartening lately, with quite a few people I love and respect doubling down on various Jill Stein absurdities
Yeah I realized the contagion had spread well beyond the right when way back at the beginning of this year a bunch of pro-Sanders Facebook acquaintances and soon-to-be-former friends started sharing anti-Clinton screeds that prominently featured mentions of Vince Foster.
posted by dersins at 3:49 PM on August 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
Yeah I realized the contagion had spread well beyond the right when way back at the beginning of this year a bunch of pro-Sanders Facebook acquaintances and soon-to-be-former friends started sharing anti-Clinton screeds that prominently featured mentions of Vince Foster.
posted by dersins at 3:49 PM on August 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
People aren't looking for truth and being mislead by the media. They're looking for confirmation of what they already suspect, and if they don't find it in one place they'll just keep looking.
posted by jon1270 at 3:50 PM on August 14, 2016 [25 favorites]
posted by jon1270 at 3:50 PM on August 14, 2016 [25 favorites]
Everybody likes to think of themselves as members of the reality-based community, even the people initially defined as outside of it. Ascribing perspectival nihilism to the US as a whole seems like generalizing from the particular, perhaps so broadly as to be moot.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:52 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 3:52 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
The same could of course be said for my lack of nihilism...
posted by Going To Maine at 3:55 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 3:55 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
In conclusion, attitudes about NPR reporting are a land of contrasts.
It's kindof as if NPR is using the "some say" method to actually evaluate and refine their own efforts.
Conservatives claim NPR is biased towards liberals? Maybe even socialist state propaganda? Well, we have to give that point of view a place in the conversation. Who knows, maybe we are part of a communist plot!
posted by wildblueyonder at 3:55 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
It's kindof as if NPR is using the "some say" method to actually evaluate and refine their own efforts.
Conservatives claim NPR is biased towards liberals? Maybe even socialist state propaganda? Well, we have to give that point of view a place in the conversation. Who knows, maybe we are part of a communist plot!
posted by wildblueyonder at 3:55 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
People aren't looking for truth and being mislead by the media. They're looking for confirmation of what they already suspect, and if they don't find it in one place they'll just keep looking.
I'm sure this isn't new, but the big difference now is there's way more places one can easily look now, and with aggregators and cheap worldwide distribution it's easier to lose track of the actual source you're getting your [mis]information from. So it's easier for fringe views to flourish.
posted by aubilenon at 3:56 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm sure this isn't new, but the big difference now is there's way more places one can easily look now, and with aggregators and cheap worldwide distribution it's easier to lose track of the actual source you're getting your [mis]information from. So it's easier for fringe views to flourish.
posted by aubilenon at 3:56 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Is there a word for, like, an anti-shibboleth?
As in, that thing where someone says "chemtrails" or "Vince Foster" or "9-11 was an inside job" or whatever and you know you can instantly discount literally everything they have to say?
posted by dersins at 4:00 PM on August 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
As in, that thing where someone says "chemtrails" or "Vince Foster" or "9-11 was an inside job" or whatever and you know you can instantly discount literally everything they have to say?
posted by dersins at 4:00 PM on August 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
"Red flags"?
posted by EarBucket at 4:03 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by EarBucket at 4:03 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
dersins, I think that that's a regular shibboleth.
Though, you can follow in my example and loudly, publicly refuse to believe in conspiracy theorists. What are they covering up by pretending to believe in that claptrap?
posted by The Gaffer at 4:03 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Though, you can follow in my example and loudly, publicly refuse to believe in conspiracy theorists. What are they covering up by pretending to believe in that claptrap?
posted by The Gaffer at 4:03 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Cuck."
posted by adamgreenfield at 4:03 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by adamgreenfield at 4:03 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
> "... that realisation has been hitting the right wing commentariat too ..."
Roper: So now you'd give the Devil benefit of law!
More: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
Roper: I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?
posted by kyrademon at 4:07 PM on August 14, 2016 [32 favorites]
Roper: So now you'd give the Devil benefit of law!
More: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
Roper: I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?
posted by kyrademon at 4:07 PM on August 14, 2016 [32 favorites]
Another thing that I find troubling is that people just pick up their talking points piecemeal and don't seem to understand when they've picked up right-wing points of view even when their overall viewpoint is liberal.
I have a friend at work who is generally fairly reasonable to talk to - he was really distressed by the Brexit vote, and we've had several conversations about rising intolerance across the world. He's as scared at the thought of Trump winning as I am.
However in one breath he will rail against Monsanto and then in the next he will complain about estate taxes being too high. Nothing I said about the 5M per individual (10M per couple) exclusion seemed to have any effect, it was all in one year and out the other. He'll say he doesn't understand how people can vote Republican and then say that he'd love to become an American citizen, except their "taxes are too high" (he's an Australian citizen).
posted by peacheater at 4:08 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
I have a friend at work who is generally fairly reasonable to talk to - he was really distressed by the Brexit vote, and we've had several conversations about rising intolerance across the world. He's as scared at the thought of Trump winning as I am.
However in one breath he will rail against Monsanto and then in the next he will complain about estate taxes being too high. Nothing I said about the 5M per individual (10M per couple) exclusion seemed to have any effect, it was all in one year and out the other. He'll say he doesn't understand how people can vote Republican and then say that he'd love to become an American citizen, except their "taxes are too high" (he's an Australian citizen).
posted by peacheater at 4:08 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
What I can't get over about "cuck" is that it literally came from porn. Dudes who use it act like they're the toughest bastards out there and I am thinking: that is a literal reference to your creepy-ass fetish.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:08 PM on August 14, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 4:08 PM on August 14, 2016 [26 favorites]
Published in the Arizona Daily Star: Jack O'Donnell: I know Trump, and he's not fit to be president:
Back then, Donald Trump’s ego was as big as it is today. He was short-tempered, he was judgmental without facts, he judged people based on their clothes or the color of their skin. His attention span was so small it was almost impossible to have a strategic conversation with him about the business. He would say something one minute and change his mind the next. He would demand something be done one way, only to criticize that directive later, never taking blame. He never said he was sorry for anything. He was crude and sexist toward women, he was a philandering fool publicly. He would humiliate his wife without a second thought.
Donald Trump was humorless, cold and selfish. He would hurt the little guy if he could see even the slightest gain for himself. He refused to pay his bills, he sued anyone who got in his way. He threatened people like myself for telling the truth.
posted by peacheater at 4:10 PM on August 14, 2016 [28 favorites]
Back then, Donald Trump’s ego was as big as it is today. He was short-tempered, he was judgmental without facts, he judged people based on their clothes or the color of their skin. His attention span was so small it was almost impossible to have a strategic conversation with him about the business. He would say something one minute and change his mind the next. He would demand something be done one way, only to criticize that directive later, never taking blame. He never said he was sorry for anything. He was crude and sexist toward women, he was a philandering fool publicly. He would humiliate his wife without a second thought.
Donald Trump was humorless, cold and selfish. He would hurt the little guy if he could see even the slightest gain for himself. He refused to pay his bills, he sued anyone who got in his way. He threatened people like myself for telling the truth.
posted by peacheater at 4:10 PM on August 14, 2016 [28 favorites]
What I can't get over about "cuck" is that it literally came from porn. Dudes who use it act like they're the toughest bastards out there
Pretty sure nobody who has ever used the word "cuck" as an internet insult/dominance display is anything even remotely close to IRL "tough."
posted by dersins at 4:14 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Pretty sure nobody who has ever used the word "cuck" as an internet insult/dominance display is anything even remotely close to IRL "tough."
posted by dersins at 4:14 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
I can't stand people using the word "cuck" even ironically. It makes me feel angry and afraid. It's not the ugly sound of it, it's the racist sexual fetish at the root of the term. Every time I read or hear it, I think of the worst kind of people using it with glee.
Can we please not use the term here at all? Throwing it around even as a joke just isn't fucking funny. There may be a thread where it's appropriate to carefully discuss the word, but we can get by without it quite well in this thread.
posted by maudlin at 4:19 PM on August 14, 2016 [41 favorites]
Can we please not use the term here at all? Throwing it around even as a joke just isn't fucking funny. There may be a thread where it's appropriate to carefully discuss the word, but we can get by without it quite well in this thread.
posted by maudlin at 4:19 PM on August 14, 2016 [41 favorites]
I'm sorry, maudlin, I meant no offense. I only offered it as a sure-fire indicator that the person you're talking to can safely be ignored. Your (sensible) objection is duly noted.
posted by adamgreenfield at 4:22 PM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by adamgreenfield at 4:22 PM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
(Thanks! I'm actually surprised by how much I hate the word. It's all part of this generally horrible year's cumulative effect, too.)
posted by maudlin at 4:24 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by maudlin at 4:24 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
We hadn't gotten to the point where we had any reflexivity about agreed procedures for the production of collective truth.
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I'm not sure I agree that the problem was a lack of reflexivity. The word of a gentleman is weak evidence by modern standards, but at the time it was unremarkable because it made sense within that society. Collective truth was always the goal for 19th century society, but the problem was that society didn't encompass all people.
The people being studied and classed as subhuman (or savage, or really any kind of racial classification) were not a part of society. They were not just below, but well outside the gates of the elites who drove innovation in thought. We can look back now and say that was wrong, but at the time it was a given that they existed wholly outside the society that would be producing knowledge about them. The problem wasn't that academics relied on weak evidence to support spurious claims. Rather, to grossly oversimplify it and summarize, it's that their thinking was so constrained by the society they were operating in that even careful self-reflection didn't lead to dramatically different conclusions.
This is what scares me so much about the future. It's not that people will believe anything they hear, it's that the conversation continues to be constrained, and acceptable truth is narrowly defined. In the 19th century it was slavery and colonialism. What's driving our societal blind spots nowadays?
posted by teponaztli at 4:31 PM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I'm not sure I agree that the problem was a lack of reflexivity. The word of a gentleman is weak evidence by modern standards, but at the time it was unremarkable because it made sense within that society. Collective truth was always the goal for 19th century society, but the problem was that society didn't encompass all people.
The people being studied and classed as subhuman (or savage, or really any kind of racial classification) were not a part of society. They were not just below, but well outside the gates of the elites who drove innovation in thought. We can look back now and say that was wrong, but at the time it was a given that they existed wholly outside the society that would be producing knowledge about them. The problem wasn't that academics relied on weak evidence to support spurious claims. Rather, to grossly oversimplify it and summarize, it's that their thinking was so constrained by the society they were operating in that even careful self-reflection didn't lead to dramatically different conclusions.
This is what scares me so much about the future. It's not that people will believe anything they hear, it's that the conversation continues to be constrained, and acceptable truth is narrowly defined. In the 19th century it was slavery and colonialism. What's driving our societal blind spots nowadays?
posted by teponaztli at 4:31 PM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
Sorry, it's really hard to write clearly about this on my phone. I'm sure theres a joke in this somewhere.
posted by teponaztli at 4:33 PM on August 14, 2016
posted by teponaztli at 4:33 PM on August 14, 2016
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I'm not sure I agree that the problem was a lack of reflexivity.
Yeah, I expressed myself poorly, sorry. Sure, the Victorians had agreed procedures for the production of collective truth. But they didn't reflect on them — didn't realize they were bounded by their understanding of class, race, gender and so on.
posted by adamgreenfield at 4:37 PM on August 14, 2016
Yeah, I expressed myself poorly, sorry. Sure, the Victorians had agreed procedures for the production of collective truth. But they didn't reflect on them — didn't realize they were bounded by their understanding of class, race, gender and so on.
posted by adamgreenfield at 4:37 PM on August 14, 2016
I went to Trump's site to check out policy statements. I accidentally went to his business site, Trump.com, which, oddly, has absolutely no mention of the campaign. On his campaign site, issues are barely addressed, certainly not with any depth or thought. It's a thin veneer of a campaign.
posted by theora55 at 4:45 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 4:45 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
I ought to emphasize that I believe all "truths" to be local, situated, contingent, subject to verification, etc.
that public discourse needs some kind of broadly-agreed procedure for reality testing
We aren't suddenly in some unprecedented crisis of epistemology. "Obama is the founder of ISIS" and the like are false in the ordinary sense that a child can understand.
posted by thelonius at 4:46 PM on August 14, 2016 [15 favorites]
that public discourse needs some kind of broadly-agreed procedure for reality testing
We aren't suddenly in some unprecedented crisis of epistemology. "Obama is the founder of ISIS" and the like are false in the ordinary sense that a child can understand.
posted by thelonius at 4:46 PM on August 14, 2016 [15 favorites]
Dude, they're already in bed with you; you can stop with the negging already.
They have to stay in that bed for several more months and he shits in it every day.
He has to convince them the smell is from their lives rather than from his bed.
posted by srboisvert at 4:48 PM on August 14, 2016 [9 favorites]
They have to stay in that bed for several more months and he shits in it every day.
He has to convince them the smell is from their lives rather than from his bed.
posted by srboisvert at 4:48 PM on August 14, 2016 [9 favorites]
. @realDonaldTrump campaign still illegally soliciting donations from foreigners.
There is already an FEC complaint and a criminal complaint against Trump campaign for illegal soliciting. Amazing they don't stop!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:48 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
There is already an FEC complaint and a criminal complaint against Trump campaign for illegal soliciting. Amazing they don't stop!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:48 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
truth isn't something you're given, it's something you have to struggle for
most people aren't willing to do that
and yes, i realize how little help that is
posted by pyramid termite at 4:53 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
most people aren't willing to do that
and yes, i realize how little help that is
posted by pyramid termite at 4:53 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
cjelli: He was literally asked point-blank, explicitly, if that was the thing he meant, and he said no. The 'what he REALLY MEANT' spin is something he's already on record as clarifying wasn't what he meant. I mean, if that was what he meant, and he wasn't sarcastic -- because he 'was being very serious' -- then why would he say that wasn't what he meant? It just doesn't make sense.
Assuming he's trying to make sense, he says what he does for a reason: "... they won't talk about your language, and they do talk about my language, right?" -- Trump talking to conservative talk show host Hugh Hewitt, who realized he and Donny actually agreed about the whole "Obama founded ISIS" phrasing, but would say it more ... truthfully and clearly than Donny, who gets the free coverage for this phrase and lack of clarity.
posted by filthy light thief at 4:58 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Assuming he's trying to make sense, he says what he does for a reason: "... they won't talk about your language, and they do talk about my language, right?" -- Trump talking to conservative talk show host Hugh Hewitt, who realized he and Donny actually agreed about the whole "Obama founded ISIS" phrasing, but would say it more ... truthfully and clearly than Donny, who gets the free coverage for this phrase and lack of clarity.
posted by filthy light thief at 4:58 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think that this assumption that our society is somehow more mired in prejudice and subjective perception than other societies were is proof, more than anything, of our own blinkered takes on the world. Superstition, dogma, and ignorance have defined virtually every society in history. In fact, we commonly disregard the various profound wisdoms and intellectual advances made in prior eras because their idiocies were so gross, so grotesque, that many of us find it hard to believe those same societies were capable of enlightenment in the least!
We can talk about Fox News and right–wing organizations teaching "the masses" not to trust the truth, but the honest fact is that Fox was merely a decade or so ahead of its time. Freedom from the media constraints of the early twentieth century and virtually every era before then—the same freedoms that enabled all manner of leftist and progressive revolutions—guaranteed that individuals would, for the first time, have the freedom to sculpt their culture around their tastes and biases, to a deeper extent than was ever possible before. The Internet has made that freedom closer to global than ever. And, as some people have noted, it isn't just the right wing that buys into that nonsense. Progressives do the same superstitious and dogmatic bullshitty things as the rest of the world do. Witness the monstrous misogyny from certain self–declared feminists of the left. You can be very smart and caring and still excuse some odious, self–important beliefs.
As a literal student of the ways in which society and modes of informational media feed off one another, I don't see this as a crisis so much as I see it as a growing pain. We now have the potential, for the first time in human history, to observe and study one of the most fundamental individual and cultural biases in all of human nature, and to see the ways in which traditional ideas about "empowerment" fall way too fucking short of the ideal. The fact that we can even articulate this distress suggests we're capable of perceiving the dilemma, which is highly unusual.
We've only had a few decades, if I'm being generous, to learn how to deal with the phenomena of global information creation, curation, and distribution, and in many ways we've already seen several substantial evolutionary steps being taken—with quite a few more being successfully implemented at the fringes of culture, but in ways that will eventually be scalable outward to tremendous effect. (We might be posting on one of those right now?? who even knows)
Relatedly, I'm also way less nervous about the phenomenon that Trump represents than it feels to me sometimes that I ought to be, given the parallels between him and other famous fascist dictators. I think we will face terrifying tyrannies in my lifetime; I also think that Trump poses a genuine threat to democracy. But I am relentlessly optimistic about his movement failing: it feels like a last gasp, not a triumphant resurgence. There are a lot of structural inequalities in America that favor him and his ilk, including institutional media idiocy and individual confirmation biases as well as things like gerrymandering, a broken House, voter suppression, and a hundred billion other things. But the tide is turning, and I think that certain awful strains of humanity are going to find it harder—though of course not impossible—to thrive in our changing world. That last bit, to me, feels like it'll outlast any individual shittinesses implemented within our societies, even ones as long–lasting as our frequently–horrid Supreme Court. I have a lot of hope for the world going forward, beneath the churning nightmare waves of the most obvious aspects of our present.
posted by rorgy at 4:59 PM on August 14, 2016 [36 favorites]
We can talk about Fox News and right–wing organizations teaching "the masses" not to trust the truth, but the honest fact is that Fox was merely a decade or so ahead of its time. Freedom from the media constraints of the early twentieth century and virtually every era before then—the same freedoms that enabled all manner of leftist and progressive revolutions—guaranteed that individuals would, for the first time, have the freedom to sculpt their culture around their tastes and biases, to a deeper extent than was ever possible before. The Internet has made that freedom closer to global than ever. And, as some people have noted, it isn't just the right wing that buys into that nonsense. Progressives do the same superstitious and dogmatic bullshitty things as the rest of the world do. Witness the monstrous misogyny from certain self–declared feminists of the left. You can be very smart and caring and still excuse some odious, self–important beliefs.
As a literal student of the ways in which society and modes of informational media feed off one another, I don't see this as a crisis so much as I see it as a growing pain. We now have the potential, for the first time in human history, to observe and study one of the most fundamental individual and cultural biases in all of human nature, and to see the ways in which traditional ideas about "empowerment" fall way too fucking short of the ideal. The fact that we can even articulate this distress suggests we're capable of perceiving the dilemma, which is highly unusual.
We've only had a few decades, if I'm being generous, to learn how to deal with the phenomena of global information creation, curation, and distribution, and in many ways we've already seen several substantial evolutionary steps being taken—with quite a few more being successfully implemented at the fringes of culture, but in ways that will eventually be scalable outward to tremendous effect. (We might be posting on one of those right now?? who even knows)
Relatedly, I'm also way less nervous about the phenomenon that Trump represents than it feels to me sometimes that I ought to be, given the parallels between him and other famous fascist dictators. I think we will face terrifying tyrannies in my lifetime; I also think that Trump poses a genuine threat to democracy. But I am relentlessly optimistic about his movement failing: it feels like a last gasp, not a triumphant resurgence. There are a lot of structural inequalities in America that favor him and his ilk, including institutional media idiocy and individual confirmation biases as well as things like gerrymandering, a broken House, voter suppression, and a hundred billion other things. But the tide is turning, and I think that certain awful strains of humanity are going to find it harder—though of course not impossible—to thrive in our changing world. That last bit, to me, feels like it'll outlast any individual shittinesses implemented within our societies, even ones as long–lasting as our frequently–horrid Supreme Court. I have a lot of hope for the world going forward, beneath the churning nightmare waves of the most obvious aspects of our present.
posted by rorgy at 4:59 PM on August 14, 2016 [36 favorites]
Wow.
The Wall Street Journal just posted a scathing editorial:
"Trump's Self-Reckoning."
Concludes:
If they can’t get Mr. Trump to change his act by Labor Day, the GOP will have no choice but to write off the nominee as hopeless and focus on salvaging the Senate and House and other down-ballot races. As for Mr. Trump, he needs to stop blaming everyone else and decide if he wants to behave like someone who wants to be President—or turn the nomination over to Mike Pence.
ETA: should be a google news link, but normally WSJ is paywalled.
posted by spitbull at 5:05 PM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
The Wall Street Journal just posted a scathing editorial:
"Trump's Self-Reckoning."
Concludes:
If they can’t get Mr. Trump to change his act by Labor Day, the GOP will have no choice but to write off the nominee as hopeless and focus on salvaging the Senate and House and other down-ballot races. As for Mr. Trump, he needs to stop blaming everyone else and decide if he wants to behave like someone who wants to be President—or turn the nomination over to Mike Pence.
ETA: should be a google news link, but normally WSJ is paywalled.
posted by spitbull at 5:05 PM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
"Obama is the founder of ISIS" and the like are false in the ordinary sense that a child can understand.
We shall see. I devoutly and sincerely hope you're right.
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:06 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
We shall see. I devoutly and sincerely hope you're right.
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:06 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
Well, the child can always do something else....
posted by thelonius at 5:12 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by thelonius at 5:12 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm late - we were out camping at Olive Lake and there was NO INTERNET. For days.
When we were driving back home, we stopped in Granite OR on August 12 and went into the store to get some fuel. As we walked in I heard one person tell another:
I would like to add - for any other introverts out there who are hesitating to call bank for Hillary, as far as I can tell, no one in West Virginia answers the phone. I used the online call bank today and got up ALL THIS NERVE to talk to people I don't know.... and just left a lot of somewhat mysterious voicemails for strangers letting them know that someone named "Hilary" would like them to vote for Hillary.
posted by hilaryjade at 5:15 PM on August 14, 2016 [49 favorites]
When we were driving back home, we stopped in Granite OR on August 12 and went into the store to get some fuel. As we walked in I heard one person tell another:
Well, it makes sense if you think about it, that Hillary and Obama started ISIS.Thankfully our appearance stopped that conversation, but I was completely perplexed.
- When did this come up, Obama starting ISIS?
- To whom would this "make sense"?
- Did the meaning of the word "sense" change while we were away?
I would like to add - for any other introverts out there who are hesitating to call bank for Hillary, as far as I can tell, no one in West Virginia answers the phone. I used the online call bank today and got up ALL THIS NERVE to talk to people I don't know.... and just left a lot of somewhat mysterious voicemails for strangers letting them know that someone named "Hilary" would like them to vote for Hillary.
posted by hilaryjade at 5:15 PM on August 14, 2016 [49 favorites]
I accidentally went to his business site, Trump.com, which, oddly, has absolutely no mention of the campaign.
Well, he wouldn't want his summer project to get in the way of real business concerns, y'know.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:17 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
Well, he wouldn't want his summer project to get in the way of real business concerns, y'know.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:17 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
Well, it makes sense if you think about it, that Hillary and Obama started ISIS.
It makes a lot of sense when you live in the bubble where you have made the two greatest threats to your way of life (1) Islamic Terrorism and (2) the Democratic Party. Why shouldn't they be working together?
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:21 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
It makes a lot of sense when you live in the bubble where you have made the two greatest threats to your way of life (1) Islamic Terrorism and (2) the Democratic Party. Why shouldn't they be working together?
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:21 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
You guys! I met EatTheWeak today thanks to this thread. It's a Trumpsmas Miracle brought to you by Santa Matt, metal, and insane election threads. He is a solid dude and we should get him to a Seattle meetup soon.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 5:27 PM on August 14, 2016 [25 favorites]
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 5:27 PM on August 14, 2016 [25 favorites]
"Well, it makes sense if you think about it, that Hillary and Obama started ISIS."
As if on cue. I'm afraid, thelonius, that there's your answer. : . (
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:28 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
As if on cue. I'm afraid, thelonius, that there's your answer. : . (
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:28 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
The Wall Street Journal just posted a scathing editorial:
It was definitely pointed. It also had this part in it:
Maybe he's starting this kerfuffle with the media so that he has an excuse not to debate.
Maybe he says one ridiculous thing after another because he's so devoid of actual knowledge about issues.
I don't know, and I just hope he keeps losing. But since 95% of his appeal is, in my view, him being a racist, sexist, xenophobic jackass, if he does the about face people increasingly act like he is incapable of doing, I think a lot of the "I'm just waiting to see more from Trimp" people will latch in like a chain on the wheels of a ten-speed, and he'll start rolling. I hope to goodness that doesn't happen, but I just know almost everywhere I look, that's the subtext to all his current failures.
posted by cashman at 5:29 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
It was definitely pointed. It also had this part in it:
The political scientist Alan Abramowitz has spent years developing his “time for a change” forecasting model. The model looks at the rate of GDP growth in the second quarter of an election year (1.2% this year), the incumbent President’s approval rating, and the electorate’s desire for change after one party has held the White House for eight years.So, the model has only been right 7 times, but the repeated theme on televised media and in other places, is that if Trimp straightens up and flies right, he can win. Maybe he's too prideful, stubborn and arrogant to do that.
No model is perfect, but Mr. Abramowitz’s has predicted the winner of the major-party popular vote in every presidential election since 1988. His model predicts that Mr. Trump should win a narrow victory with 51.4%. A mainstream GOP candidate who runs a reasonably competent campaign would have about a 66% chance of victory.
Maybe he's starting this kerfuffle with the media so that he has an excuse not to debate.
Maybe he says one ridiculous thing after another because he's so devoid of actual knowledge about issues.
I don't know, and I just hope he keeps losing. But since 95% of his appeal is, in my view, him being a racist, sexist, xenophobic jackass, if he does the about face people increasingly act like he is incapable of doing, I think a lot of the "I'm just waiting to see more from Trimp" people will latch in like a chain on the wheels of a ten-speed, and he'll start rolling. I hope to goodness that doesn't happen, but I just know almost everywhere I look, that's the subtext to all his current failures.
posted by cashman at 5:29 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oliver Darcy interviews conservative radio host Charlie Sykes (twitter)
But, at a certain point you wake up and you realize you have destroyed the credibility of any credible outlet out there.
posted by chaoticgood at 5:34 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
But, at a certain point you wake up and you realize you have destroyed the credibility of any credible outlet out there.
posted by chaoticgood at 5:34 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
Yeah, that WSJ editorial reminds me why I never read the WSJ.
As ever, it seems that more "mainstream" Republicans' major problem with Trump is his bad PR and bad polls. They would be willing to forgive all the racism, sexism and xenophobia if the rest of the country didn't care and would elect him anyway, and to that end they're willing to keep trying to cover his faults.
I also love how they just state as a fact in the first paragraph that the media obviously wants every Republican nominee to not become President.
posted by peacheater at 5:34 PM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
As ever, it seems that more "mainstream" Republicans' major problem with Trump is his bad PR and bad polls. They would be willing to forgive all the racism, sexism and xenophobia if the rest of the country didn't care and would elect him anyway, and to that end they're willing to keep trying to cover his faults.
I also love how they just state as a fact in the first paragraph that the media obviously wants every Republican nominee to not become President.
posted by peacheater at 5:34 PM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
We aren't suddenly in some unprecedented crisis of epistemology.
I don't know, you guys. Maybe Obama and Clinton really are terrorist Hitler poopy-faces, did you ever think of that?
posted by ctmf at 5:38 PM on August 14, 2016
I don't know, you guys. Maybe Obama and Clinton really are terrorist Hitler poopy-faces, did you ever think of that?
posted by ctmf at 5:38 PM on August 14, 2016
Well, I have my dreams. If someone tells me there is orange juice in the refrigerator and I go and it is empty, I will have no brook with talk of personal realities, or orange-juice-like sensations. The guy was just wrong, or he was lying to me! If there were a table here I would thump it now.
posted by thelonius at 5:39 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 5:39 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
The Week Democracy Died: Dark days this summer showed how government by the people—beset by illiberal populists on one side and undemocratic elites on the other—is poised for extinction.
posted by homunculus at 5:40 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 5:40 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
But once you start attacking the press directly and throwing them out of your rallies, that's when they'll actually turn on you.
Implementing torture and blatantly fear-mongering the US into an insane war, though - they'll eat that shit up.
The 15th-or-so time I heard NPR parrot "enhanced interrogation" they ceased to be anything worth listening to.
posted by petebest at 5:41 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
Implementing torture and blatantly fear-mongering the US into an insane war, though - they'll eat that shit up.
The 15th-or-so time I heard NPR parrot "enhanced interrogation" they ceased to be anything worth listening to.
posted by petebest at 5:41 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
So, the model has only been right 7 times, but the repeated theme on televised media and in other places, is that if Trimp straightens up and flies right, he can win.
This would be the narrative no matter what. Horse races sell, blowouts don't. Besides that, the editorial board is unabashedly partisan, like the NYT editorial board.
They would be willing to forgive all the racism, sexism and xenophobia if the rest of the country didn't care and would elect him anyway, and to that end they're willing to keep trying to cover his faults.
If you don't believe racism is racism, it doesn't bother you.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:49 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
This would be the narrative no matter what. Horse races sell, blowouts don't. Besides that, the editorial board is unabashedly partisan, like the NYT editorial board.
They would be willing to forgive all the racism, sexism and xenophobia if the rest of the country didn't care and would elect him anyway, and to that end they're willing to keep trying to cover his faults.
If you don't believe racism is racism, it doesn't bother you.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:49 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
I also love how they just state as a fact in the first paragraph that the media obviously wants every Republican nominee to not become President.
Ignoring completely, of course, that the WSJ is as "mainstream media" as any other outlet.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:51 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
Ignoring completely, of course, that the WSJ is as "mainstream media" as any other outlet.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:51 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
Further evidence of how disorganized Trump's campaign and/or supporters are; a friend of mine got an email today advising him that his Trump lawn signs are ready to be picked up. My friend lives in Canada and was visibly dismayed that anyone could mistake him for a Trump supporter. Pointing out that this means fewer lawn signs being displayed for Orange Julius Caesar seemed to help.
posted by peppermind at 5:52 PM on August 14, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by peppermind at 5:52 PM on August 14, 2016 [17 favorites]
@misskaz: Perhaps that needs to be a Pokemon.
Seriously, the more I think about it, this election has completely inverted the political alignment axis from good-vs-evil to order-vs-chaotic. And that completely rewrites the political playbook. Most years, we can expect candidates to agree at least on the subjects they will disagree over -- taxes or immigration or education spending. This year, we have a candidate who seems to be getting money from the Russians and who has asked why we don't actually set off our nuclear weapons.
Which also answers a question from awhile back: Why would Kissinger endorse Clinton? Not because they agree on real issues, nor because she promised him favors. But because he, for all his flaws, is apparently lawful evil.
The frightening part is that Trump's approach seems to be to take the system down with him -- if he loses, it'll be because American democracy is broken, not because the system works.
(FWIW, this argument was also straight out of the BoB playbook -- and I think the Bernie to Trump voters make sense if you assume they are supporting a chaotically aligned candidate.)
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:53 PM on August 14, 2016 [20 favorites]
Seriously, the more I think about it, this election has completely inverted the political alignment axis from good-vs-evil to order-vs-chaotic. And that completely rewrites the political playbook. Most years, we can expect candidates to agree at least on the subjects they will disagree over -- taxes or immigration or education spending. This year, we have a candidate who seems to be getting money from the Russians and who has asked why we don't actually set off our nuclear weapons.
Which also answers a question from awhile back: Why would Kissinger endorse Clinton? Not because they agree on real issues, nor because she promised him favors. But because he, for all his flaws, is apparently lawful evil.
The frightening part is that Trump's approach seems to be to take the system down with him -- if he loses, it'll be because American democracy is broken, not because the system works.
(FWIW, this argument was also straight out of the BoB playbook -- and I think the Bernie to Trump voters make sense if you assume they are supporting a chaotically aligned candidate.)
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:53 PM on August 14, 2016 [20 favorites]
If someone tells me there is orange juice in the refrigerator and I go and it is empty, I will have no brook with talk of personal realities, or orange-juice-like sensations. The guy was just wrong, or he was lying to me! If there were a table here I would thump it now.
But what if someone tells you that the orange juice you bought is in the fridge but while you're out they drink all the oj, go to the store, buy an indistinguishable new bottle of oj and put in the fridge, and you get home, and find a bottle of oj there. Is your oj still in the fridge? /justphilosopherthings
posted by dis_integration at 5:56 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
But what if someone tells you that the orange juice you bought is in the fridge but while you're out they drink all the oj, go to the store, buy an indistinguishable new bottle of oj and put in the fridge, and you get home, and find a bottle of oj there. Is your oj still in the fridge? /justphilosopherthings
posted by dis_integration at 5:56 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
This would be the narrative no matter what. Horse races sell, blowouts don't.
No matter, it's still being said, and will still likely help the race to tighten. I definitely understand the horse race aspect. I love blowouts, but even in sports they do that thing where they root for the team down by 30 in the 3rd quarter, talking about all they can do to come back.
What I wish I could prognosticate better is - if Trimp (and I keep calling him this because of those images that got produced, they're hilariously scary but funny because it's almost like his horrific statements and slurs finally have something they look like they would come out of) - if he is internet comments come to life. If he's mra's all rolled into one - then what would happen next?
posted by cashman at 6:02 PM on August 14, 2016
No matter, it's still being said, and will still likely help the race to tighten. I definitely understand the horse race aspect. I love blowouts, but even in sports they do that thing where they root for the team down by 30 in the 3rd quarter, talking about all they can do to come back.
What I wish I could prognosticate better is - if Trimp (and I keep calling him this because of those images that got produced, they're hilariously scary but funny because it's almost like his horrific statements and slurs finally have something they look like they would come out of) - if he is internet comments come to life. If he's mra's all rolled into one - then what would happen next?
posted by cashman at 6:02 PM on August 14, 2016
Which also answers a question from awhile back: Why would Kissinger endorse Clinton? Not because they agree on real issues, nor because she promised him favors. But because he, for all his flaws, is apparently lawful evil.
This is kind of interest8ing because it is pretty clear to me that Trump is chaotic neutral-- the "it does what it wants" alignment.
posted by dersins at 6:12 PM on August 14, 2016
This is kind of interest8ing because it is pretty clear to me that Trump is chaotic neutral-- the "it does what it wants" alignment.
posted by dersins at 6:12 PM on August 14, 2016
@CLewandowski_
Secret Ledger in Ukraine Lists Cash for Donald Trump’s Campaign Chief
(link to the Times article)
posted by sporkwort at 6:16 PM on August 14, 2016 [26 favorites]
Secret Ledger in Ukraine Lists Cash for Donald Trump’s Campaign Chief
(link to the Times article)
posted by sporkwort at 6:16 PM on August 14, 2016 [26 favorites]
Lewandowski shared that? I take it he's not feeling too hot about being replaced.
posted by dis_integration at 6:19 PM on August 14, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 6:19 PM on August 14, 2016 [17 favorites]
damn: Secret Ledger in Ukraine Lists Cash for Donald Trump’s Campaign Chief, NYT
Handwritten ledgers show $12.7 million in undisclosed cash payments designated for Mr. Manafort from Mr. Yanukovych’s pro-Russian political party from 2007 to 2012, according to Ukraine’s newly formed National Anti-Corruption Bureau. Investigators assert that the disbursements were part of an illegal off-the-books system whose recipients also included election officials.posted by the man of twists and turns at 6:19 PM on August 14, 2016 [38 favorites]
In addition, criminal prosecutors are investigating a group of offshore shell companies that helped members of Mr. Yanukovych’s inner circle finance their lavish lifestyles, including a palatial presidential residence with a private zoo, golf course and tennis court. Among the hundreds of murky transactions these companies engaged in was an $18 million deal to sell Ukrainian cable television assets to a partnership put together by Mr. Manafort and a Russian oligarch, Oleg Deripaska, a close ally of President Vladimir V. Putin.
This is kind of interest8ing because it is pretty clear to me that Trump is chaotic neutral-- the "it does what it wants" alignment.
Really? I'd have called him Chaotic Evil. But then I'd call most supposedly CN RPG characters very much chaotic evil.
posted by Francis at 6:19 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Really? I'd have called him Chaotic Evil. But then I'd call most supposedly CN RPG characters very much chaotic evil.
posted by Francis at 6:19 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Not only did Lewandowski tweet that, he did it on a day when Trump is all about bashing the New York Times.
posted by zachlipton at 6:21 PM on August 14, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:21 PM on August 14, 2016 [16 favorites]
there's something very bizzarro world about growing up hearing right wing extremists claiming that democrats and liberals are russian/commie agents and then finding out that the republican candidate of 2016 is suspiciously cozy with the russian power structure
i mean, what the hell?
posted by pyramid termite at 6:24 PM on August 14, 2016 [75 favorites]
i mean, what the hell?
posted by pyramid termite at 6:24 PM on August 14, 2016 [75 favorites]
Trump is definitely chaotic evil given his vindictive nature. He wants to spend time and effort attacking his former competitors for the Republican nomination. That is not the act of a neutral man.
posted by nolnacs at 6:24 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by nolnacs at 6:24 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
We have tweets:
I have always been the same person-remain true to self.The media wants me to change but it would be very dishonest to supporters to do so!
"Stay on message" is the chant. I always do - trade, jobs, military, vets, 2nd A, repeal Ocare, borders, etc - but media misrepresents!
posted by infinitewindow at 6:24 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have always been the same person-remain true to self.The media wants me to change but it would be very dishonest to supporters to do so!
"Stay on message" is the chant. I always do - trade, jobs, military, vets, 2nd A, repeal Ocare, borders, etc - but media misrepresents!
posted by infinitewindow at 6:24 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh, Trump's surrounded himself with back-stabbing shit bags? How utterly shocking.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 6:24 PM on August 14, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 6:24 PM on August 14, 2016 [31 favorites]
Oh, Trump's surrounded himself with back-stabbing shit bags? How utterly shocking.
Almost as satisfying as Romney's campaign running for the parasitic economic rentier class and having a massive mountain of money blown on parasitic middle men.
Democrats seem to know the value of a dollar while Republicans rock up to billionaires to shake the money tree and give it to their consultant buddies.
posted by Talez at 6:30 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
Almost as satisfying as Romney's campaign running for the parasitic economic rentier class and having a massive mountain of money blown on parasitic middle men.
Democrats seem to know the value of a dollar while Republicans rock up to billionaires to shake the money tree and give it to their consultant buddies.
posted by Talez at 6:30 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
i missed the whole d&d whatever grid thing
is there a category 'chaotic stupid'?
trump is that category
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:33 PM on August 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
is there a category 'chaotic stupid'?
trump is that category
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:33 PM on August 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
WOW. Like, WOW. Like, that should - just - WOW. That is an honest to God huge scandal. Not "Trump says something beyond outrageous". Not even "Trump's campaign manager is a thug." WOW.
I was going to write an "if this were a normal campaign..." sentence, but nothing about this is normal.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:35 PM on August 14, 2016 [32 favorites]
I was going to write an "if this were a normal campaign..." sentence, but nothing about this is normal.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:35 PM on August 14, 2016 [32 favorites]
Trump is tanar'ri, RNC are baatezu
posted by prize bull octorok at 6:35 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 6:35 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Here's the obvious question: why would Manafort spend so many years advancing Russian interests in Kiev if there weren't many millions of dollars in it for him?
posted by zachlipton at 6:37 PM on August 14, 2016
posted by zachlipton at 6:37 PM on August 14, 2016
I mean, is it even a question now that Trumps campaign is a FSB/KGB operation? Manafort has to be a KGB asset. [real].
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:38 PM on August 14, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:38 PM on August 14, 2016 [20 favorites]
See, this is why it's become so hard to put the news down. When else would you get this after 9 pm on a Sunday?
Just now, himself tweeted, "Certain Republicans who have lost to me would rather save face by fighting me than see the U.S.Supreme Court get proper appointments. Sad!" Sad, indeed. Even he can smell decay.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:40 PM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
Just now, himself tweeted, "Certain Republicans who have lost to me would rather save face by fighting me than see the U.S.Supreme Court get proper appointments. Sad!" Sad, indeed. Even he can smell decay.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:40 PM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
Secret Ledger in Ukraine Lists Cash for Donald Trump’s Campaign Chief
Yes! This is the first real shot across the bow. Good on ya New . . what is it, New York . . Times? Whatever, great work keep going! Follow the spice!
Money. Follow the spice money.
posted by petebest at 6:41 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yes! This is the first real shot across the bow. Good on ya New . . what is it, New York . . Times? Whatever, great work keep going! Follow the spice!
Money. Follow the spice money.
posted by petebest at 6:41 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
It will all come out years from now in a fascinating book. How Russia almost pulled off the greatest spy operation of all time - getting elected president of their worst enemy, entirely legally! - except one narcissistic chump blew the whole thing.
posted by ctmf at 6:42 PM on August 14, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 6:42 PM on August 14, 2016 [16 favorites]
Keep focusing on the Supreme Court, Donald J. Trump. Motivate those younger voters.
posted by puddledork at 6:42 PM on August 14, 2016
posted by puddledork at 6:42 PM on August 14, 2016
Here's the obvious question: why would Manafort spend so many years advancing Russian interests in Kiev if there weren't many millions of dollars in it for him?
Apparently he was leading Ukraine "closer to Europe" by helping to get Yanukovych elected. I'm not sure why the spineless twit that interviewed Manafort at the time didn't point out that any idiot with a modicum of political acumen could see that getting Yanukovych elected was basically installing a Putin surrogate in the Ukrainian presidency.
posted by Talez at 6:45 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Apparently he was leading Ukraine "closer to Europe" by helping to get Yanukovych elected. I'm not sure why the spineless twit that interviewed Manafort at the time didn't point out that any idiot with a modicum of political acumen could see that getting Yanukovych elected was basically installing a Putin surrogate in the Ukrainian presidency.
posted by Talez at 6:45 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Manafort has to be a KGB asset. [real].
This seems plausible enough that I'd love to some op-eds from CIA types on the subject. That said, I kind of think that if Manafort were known to be an FSB asset the security community would have figured it out ages ago and shut him down.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:47 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
This seems plausible enough that I'd love to some op-eds from CIA types on the subject. That said, I kind of think that if Manafort were known to be an FSB asset the security community would have figured it out ages ago and shut him down.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:47 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Every tweet from Trump today has either attacked the media or fellow republicans. Hillary's been mentioned in a few, but only one really says anything negative about her other than the usual "Crooked Hillary" namecalling.
That NYT article on Manafort is huge. I don't know how the campaign moves forward with him at the helm. I don't know how anyone in a position of responsibility can support Trump now without the tax returns. Hell, now it's important to see how financially tied Trump is to Manafort, to say nothing of the Russians themselves.
posted by Chanther at 6:48 PM on August 14, 2016 [43 favorites]
That NYT article on Manafort is huge. I don't know how the campaign moves forward with him at the helm. I don't know how anyone in a position of responsibility can support Trump now without the tax returns. Hell, now it's important to see how financially tied Trump is to Manafort, to say nothing of the Russians themselves.
posted by Chanther at 6:48 PM on August 14, 2016 [43 favorites]
I just moved, and have been offline for about a month. So forgive me if someone posted something similar in the numerous comments above, I apologize in advance.
I remember when Geraldine Ferraro ran for Vice President, and the absolutely huge backlash. That was a time when I was still forced to wear skirts and pantyhose at work as part of my dress code, and having sex was not young hippie love in my area of the country, when I got pregnant in college, and didn't get married, I was either a "slut" or "so brave" to have a child "out of wedlock."
I also remember the Reagan years, oh yes, I remember them well. I was a single mother, and my folks were supporting me, as I have a wicked nice family, and my mom and dad both love babies, and they would never cast me out like some do, or force me to go to some weird camp for unwed mothers and give up my baby for adoption, hell no, they were like, "it's your choice, and if you want to keep your baby, come on down and we'll all be helping you, Marie." And they did!!! My Dad was the best Grandpa, and I still have a picture of my Mom holding my daughter, as a baby, in the old antique family rocking chair, with a smile on her face, because my Mom loved babies, and she watched my daughter when I went back to work, part-time at first, and then when I went to school...
Which was a program for single mothers, called JTPA. I was taking a course in Wang Word Processing, and advanced typing, and office bookkeeping. It was 1985, and it was sponsored by JTPA.
My teacher was an old Katherine Gibbs school graduate. Her name was also Marie, that's how I remember her. White blouse, navy blue skirt, very proper, but very practical as well. We had to learn typing on an IBM Selectric, and she had us typing sentences backwards, to make sure we were very accurate. I remember that, because after two weeks of Marie's typing tutelage, I could all of a sudden type 80 wpm on an IMB Selectric, with no errors. So her methods worked.
And she was hip and down with the Wang Word Processor, she knew it all, and she had us learn it, one by one, and then teach the next woman in line, and some of the students were also "Displaced Homemakers," that is, women who had stayed at home and been housewives, but then they were divorced for whatever reason, and had no job skills, so the JTPA program allowed them to take secretarial courses in order for them to be able to get a "real" job. And we "girls" used the word processor to compose and type resumés for the guys, who were in the technical side of the JTPA program, learning skills that would ultimately pay them a living wage, unlike being an office grunt, or, as we called it back then, secretary. My dream job. Not.
So what I have observed, throughout my career at such places as Ameritech, McDonnell Douglas Payment Systems (now defunct), and oh, Motorola Corporate, among others, is that misogyny is still alive and well in this day and age of newfound technology and enlightenment. And the backlash against Hillary Clinton is much like that against Geraldine Ferraro in the Year of Our Lord, 1984.
In short: it stinks, and she is our next President of the United States. Because there is no way in hell that someone as small-minded and self-centered as Donald Trump can possibly overcome progress. I have seen it and I have experienced it to the nth degree, and this utter drivel is on its way out, because the younger generation is too smart to let it happen. THEY are the silent majority, and Trump had better watch out for THEIR backlash, because if I thought I was a rebel, well, these kids have the Internet, and they are not afraid to use it to speak their minds. Money aside, it's the voice of the People who will ultimately determine the outcome of this election. Peace out.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 6:49 PM on August 14, 2016 [154 favorites]
I remember when Geraldine Ferraro ran for Vice President, and the absolutely huge backlash. That was a time when I was still forced to wear skirts and pantyhose at work as part of my dress code, and having sex was not young hippie love in my area of the country, when I got pregnant in college, and didn't get married, I was either a "slut" or "so brave" to have a child "out of wedlock."
I also remember the Reagan years, oh yes, I remember them well. I was a single mother, and my folks were supporting me, as I have a wicked nice family, and my mom and dad both love babies, and they would never cast me out like some do, or force me to go to some weird camp for unwed mothers and give up my baby for adoption, hell no, they were like, "it's your choice, and if you want to keep your baby, come on down and we'll all be helping you, Marie." And they did!!! My Dad was the best Grandpa, and I still have a picture of my Mom holding my daughter, as a baby, in the old antique family rocking chair, with a smile on her face, because my Mom loved babies, and she watched my daughter when I went back to work, part-time at first, and then when I went to school...
Which was a program for single mothers, called JTPA. I was taking a course in Wang Word Processing, and advanced typing, and office bookkeeping. It was 1985, and it was sponsored by JTPA.
My teacher was an old Katherine Gibbs school graduate. Her name was also Marie, that's how I remember her. White blouse, navy blue skirt, very proper, but very practical as well. We had to learn typing on an IBM Selectric, and she had us typing sentences backwards, to make sure we were very accurate. I remember that, because after two weeks of Marie's typing tutelage, I could all of a sudden type 80 wpm on an IMB Selectric, with no errors. So her methods worked.
And she was hip and down with the Wang Word Processor, she knew it all, and she had us learn it, one by one, and then teach the next woman in line, and some of the students were also "Displaced Homemakers," that is, women who had stayed at home and been housewives, but then they were divorced for whatever reason, and had no job skills, so the JTPA program allowed them to take secretarial courses in order for them to be able to get a "real" job. And we "girls" used the word processor to compose and type resumés for the guys, who were in the technical side of the JTPA program, learning skills that would ultimately pay them a living wage, unlike being an office grunt, or, as we called it back then, secretary. My dream job. Not.
So what I have observed, throughout my career at such places as Ameritech, McDonnell Douglas Payment Systems (now defunct), and oh, Motorola Corporate, among others, is that misogyny is still alive and well in this day and age of newfound technology and enlightenment. And the backlash against Hillary Clinton is much like that against Geraldine Ferraro in the Year of Our Lord, 1984.
In short: it stinks, and she is our next President of the United States. Because there is no way in hell that someone as small-minded and self-centered as Donald Trump can possibly overcome progress. I have seen it and I have experienced it to the nth degree, and this utter drivel is on its way out, because the younger generation is too smart to let it happen. THEY are the silent majority, and Trump had better watch out for THEIR backlash, because if I thought I was a rebel, well, these kids have the Internet, and they are not afraid to use it to speak their minds. Money aside, it's the voice of the People who will ultimately determine the outcome of this election. Peace out.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 6:49 PM on August 14, 2016 [154 favorites]
Surely this...!
posted by spitbull at 6:51 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 6:51 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Bless you Marie. And Hunter Thompson is smiling on you from somewhere, he loved that IBM Selectric.
posted by vrakatar at 6:53 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 6:53 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
Surely this...!
Donald Trump feels like some sort of horrible Frankenstein monster designed to test whether such a limit actually exists.
posted by mordax at 6:54 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Donald Trump feels like some sort of horrible Frankenstein monster designed to test whether such a limit actually exists.
posted by mordax at 6:54 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
"Speaking as someone who has a story coming this week: This is just the beginning for Manafort. It gets worse."
Adam Weinstein, Senior editor, @Fusion
posted by chris24 at 6:54 PM on August 14, 2016 [55 favorites]
Adam Weinstein, Senior editor, @Fusion
posted by chris24 at 6:54 PM on August 14, 2016 [55 favorites]
I think we passed our "surely this" moment long ago, and we're just in the hellish illogical glitchworld we pass into when a candidate doesn't drop out in disgrace like a normal person would.
posted by prize bull octorok at 6:56 PM on August 14, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 6:56 PM on August 14, 2016 [20 favorites]
2016's Top Presidential Science, Engineering, Tech, Health & Environmental Questions
20 (Science) Questions for the Presidential Candidates: A coalition of scientists has challenged the presidential candidates to a science debate. This should be interesting!
posted by homunculus at 6:57 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
20 (Science) Questions for the Presidential Candidates: A coalition of scientists has challenged the presidential candidates to a science debate. This should be interesting!
posted by homunculus at 6:57 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
Jesus Christ, how much worse can it get? Are there literal bodies buried somewhere?
posted by lovecrafty at 6:58 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by lovecrafty at 6:58 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
I guess CNN just found its new Russian correspondent.
posted by Artw at 6:59 PM on August 14, 2016 [42 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:59 PM on August 14, 2016 [42 favorites]
Interesting. Manafort might bluster the corruption thing away, but the IRS is going to be interested in whether he declared that as income, and their investigatory powers in the USA are at lot greater than the NYT's.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:00 PM on August 14, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:00 PM on August 14, 2016 [15 favorites]
In His Words: 19 Notable Thoughts From Donald Trump (today in Connecticut)
These are the rantings of an unbalanced individual.
posted by zakur at 7:01 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
These are the rantings of an unbalanced individual.
posted by zakur at 7:01 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
i missed the whole d&d whatever grid thing
From earlier in the season, but here you go.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:03 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
From earlier in the season, but here you go.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:03 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
This feels like the GOP trying to take him down before the ballots close up.
Jesus, it's so weird trying to figure out who to root against here.
posted by Mooski at 7:05 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
Jesus, it's so weird trying to figure out who to root against here.
posted by Mooski at 7:05 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
Marie Mon Dieu, somewhere up-thread, someone linked one of the old American Spectator hitjobs against Hillary Clinton, from the 1992 campaign, and , even though I am old enough to remember that very well, I was shocked at how vicious it is.
posted by thelonius at 7:06 PM on August 14, 2016
posted by thelonius at 7:06 PM on August 14, 2016
You know it's a sinking ship with no exits, when the rats start eating each other.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 7:06 PM on August 14, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by a lungful of dragon at 7:06 PM on August 14, 2016 [22 favorites]
Mooski, I hope not. I have to admit that when I voted for Bernie in the primary, it wasn't so much that I preferred him as that I thought Hillary would never be able to lift the weight of 25 years' worth of misogynistic right-wing nonsense. I think she can do it now, but I'm afraid she still needs Trump's help. As it is, I think it's Lewandowski's pique that put the story on blast, not an RNC plot.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:08 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Countess Elena at 7:08 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
The thing is that Trump didn't have to elevate Manafort after the Lewindowski fallout; he could have put literally anyone else in the job as late as the end of May. Even if Manafort was an ill-considered advisor to an unserious longshot campaign back in 2015, it would have been super easy to pick someone else to run the show through the general. Any remotely normal candidate would have used that opportunity to not promote the guy with a track record of advising and lobbying on behalf of dictators around the world and extensive ties to Russia, including his name in a secret register of people who received payments. Manafort would have been old news at that point.
posted by zachlipton at 7:11 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:11 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
They are fucked. Trump has to withdraw for them to replace him. Even if he does in time to be replaced on the ballot in all states (Aug 28th), he would no doubt try to sabotage the new nominee, tell his supporters to stay home, campaign against Rs, etc. If he stays and the RNC cuts the staffing and $$ support, he can do the same things and blame his loss on their betrayal.
posted by chris24 at 7:12 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 7:12 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
MY XXL BAG OF EVENS IS EMPTY
posted by Going To Maine at 7:13 PM on August 14, 2016 [35 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 7:13 PM on August 14, 2016 [35 favorites]
This delicious Manafort story has to break now? It's past three here, I'm desperate to get to sleep.
posted by adamgreenfield at 7:13 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by adamgreenfield at 7:13 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Reasons not to call the NYT 'garbage', part 1...
posted by Devonian at 7:13 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 7:13 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Corey Lewandowski retweeted the NYT piece. The long knives are out.
posted by Justinian at 7:17 PM on August 14, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:17 PM on August 14, 2016 [19 favorites]
Something that has been bothering me for a while: if America is so terrible and Mexico is the "eighth wonder of the world" and takes all our jobs, why do we need Trump's deportation force at all? Surely people should be clamoring to get back into Mexico if the situation is as he describes it.
posted by zachlipton at 7:20 PM on August 14, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:20 PM on August 14, 2016 [9 favorites]
Juanita Broaddrick Wants to Be Believed, by Katie J.M. Baker.
I am not posting this to discourage anyone from voting for Clinton - I certainly will be, and enthusiastically! - but because I believe Juanita Broaddrick and she deserves to be heard. (I don't think Hillary Clinton played any intentional role in intimidating Broaddrick - the article does a good job detailing why Broaddrick's story matters in the current campaign nevertheless.) Knowing what we do about Trump's treatment of Ivana, I think there will be a rapist living in our White House for the next four years regardless, and that is fucking horrible to contemplate.
posted by sallybrown at 7:20 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
I am not posting this to discourage anyone from voting for Clinton - I certainly will be, and enthusiastically! - but because I believe Juanita Broaddrick and she deserves to be heard. (I don't think Hillary Clinton played any intentional role in intimidating Broaddrick - the article does a good job detailing why Broaddrick's story matters in the current campaign nevertheless.) Knowing what we do about Trump's treatment of Ivana, I think there will be a rapist living in our White House for the next four years regardless, and that is fucking horrible to contemplate.
posted by sallybrown at 7:20 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
Even if Manafort was an ill-considered advisor to an unserious longshot campaign back in 2015, it would have been super easy to pick someone else to run the show through the general
Maybe right after the RNC. After the post-DNC reaction, Trump was toxic to a lot of competent Rs.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:21 PM on August 14, 2016
Maybe right after the RNC. After the post-DNC reaction, Trump was toxic to a lot of competent Rs.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:21 PM on August 14, 2016
From earlier in the season, but here you go.
Oh no I mean I know what it is as a meme but I just missed the whole actual game thing for unknown reasons.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:21 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh no I mean I know what it is as a meme but I just missed the whole actual game thing for unknown reasons.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:21 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Jesu Tortilla! Just when I thought things would settle down enough for me to get decent sleep...
(Last night I dreamed we were surrounding Paul Ryan saying "Shame! Shame!"
He was wearing an orange blazer)
posted by Floydd at 7:23 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
(Last night I dreamed we were surrounding Paul Ryan saying "Shame! Shame!"
He was wearing an orange blazer)
posted by Floydd at 7:23 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
Corey Lewandowski retweeted the NYT piece. The long knives are out.
Is it important? A blip? End of the republic? I no longer have the capacity to differentiate.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:23 PM on August 14, 2016 [30 favorites]
Is it important? A blip? End of the republic? I no longer have the capacity to differentiate.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:23 PM on August 14, 2016 [30 favorites]
"Speaking as someone who has a story coming this week: This is just the beginning for Manafort. It gets worse."
Adam Weinstein, Senior editor, @Fusion
If there are documents with enough proof to make a case that Manafort was taking direction from Putin or planned to in the future, would that be illegal? It seems he is essentially selling influence/control over our federal government to a foreign government...
posted by sallybrown at 7:25 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Adam Weinstein, Senior editor, @Fusion
If there are documents with enough proof to make a case that Manafort was taking direction from Putin or planned to in the future, would that be illegal? It seems he is essentially selling influence/control over our federal government to a foreign government...
posted by sallybrown at 7:25 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Bless you Marie. And Hunter Thompson is smiling on you from somewhere, he loved that IBM Selectric.
Thanks! Perhaps I should watch the movie based on his life, I am a huge Johnny Depp fan, but unfortunately, I was working and raising kids when it came out, so je ne sais pas :::shrug::: I was more of an Edward Scissorhands afficiando, as I was into Vincent Price as a youngin', so that was more my jam. Appreciate the comment, tho'! :-) Keep on keepin' on, man.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 7:26 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Thanks! Perhaps I should watch the movie based on his life, I am a huge Johnny Depp fan, but unfortunately, I was working and raising kids when it came out, so je ne sais pas :::shrug::: I was more of an Edward Scissorhands afficiando, as I was into Vincent Price as a youngin', so that was more my jam. Appreciate the comment, tho'! :-) Keep on keepin' on, man.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 7:26 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well, foreign agents have to register with the government (a law that's been used for a number of abuses over the years), and Manafort has not done so. As the NYT story notes, it's not clear that he did anything on behalf of Ukraine that required registration, but obviously that's something people are going to be looking at. Beyond that, money laundering and tax fraud come to mind if he received payments under the table and didn't report them.
posted by zachlipton at 7:29 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:29 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Ivanka is on vacation with Wendy Deng, who is dating Putin. I'm just saying ya'll.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:32 PM on August 14, 2016 [47 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:32 PM on August 14, 2016 [47 favorites]
... I think there will be a rapist living in our White House for the next four years regardless, and that is fucking horrible to contemplate.
I absolutely don't mean to diminish this point at all, but considering how badly men have been allowed to act about consent, there have probably been rapist residents of the White House since it has been built. Not constantly, I mean. Probably not James Buchanan, for a start. But even so. We can't keep holding Hillary accountable for Bill just because she's supposed to be the ball on the end of his chain.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:34 PM on August 14, 2016 [53 favorites]
I absolutely don't mean to diminish this point at all, but considering how badly men have been allowed to act about consent, there have probably been rapist residents of the White House since it has been built. Not constantly, I mean. Probably not James Buchanan, for a start. But even so. We can't keep holding Hillary accountable for Bill just because she's supposed to be the ball on the end of his chain.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:34 PM on August 14, 2016 [53 favorites]
You ever read Jon Bois's yearly "Breaking Madden" columns on SB Nation? I feel like I'm a voter in "Breaking the Election."
posted by infinitewindow at 7:34 PM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by infinitewindow at 7:34 PM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
I grew up in a time when I assumed I'd probably die in a nuclear war because we had a president who joked about pushing the button and our enmity with the Soviet Union was Very Serious Bizness and I was unironically red-baited in college .... and now I live in a world where the Republican nominee for president lurves the president of Russia and his right hand is tightly joined to the same and the Republican leadership can't seem to bear to even mention this and basically I just do not know what the fuck is going on any more.
posted by rtha at 7:35 PM on August 14, 2016 [56 favorites]
posted by rtha at 7:35 PM on August 14, 2016 [56 favorites]
Marie Mon Dieu - definitely check out Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Soon.
posted by porpoise at 7:35 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by porpoise at 7:35 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
Today in Seattle I passed some people at a "Register to vote" table, and gave them a big smile and thumbs up (I didn't stop to talk; it's Seattle, one doesn't do such things). One of the people gave me a really nasty look. I was in my Hillary 16 T-shirt. I wonder if there was a connection; are Trump supporters out there registering people, too? It seems unlike them.
Or maybe it was the hot weather, or he was thinking about something else, or maybe I don't look as friendly as I think I do.
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:36 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
Or maybe it was the hot weather, or he was thinking about something else, or maybe I don't look as friendly as I think I do.
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:36 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
Ivanka is on vacation with Wendy Deng.
Enough. I can't take this anymore. I'm with tivalasvegas. I can no longer differentiate between what is important OR real.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:38 PM on August 14, 2016 [35 favorites]
Enough. I can't take this anymore. I'm with tivalasvegas. I can no longer differentiate between what is important OR real.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:38 PM on August 14, 2016 [35 favorites]
I have the feeling that the Trump campaign rallies will reach their end at Magic Mountain in a second billing below a puppet show.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:39 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:39 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Enough. I can't take this anymore. I'm with tivalasvegas. I can no longer differentiate between what is important OR real.
Welcome to the Trumpendome.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:40 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Welcome to the Trumpendome.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:40 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
As a Wendy, I feel it desperately important to point out that Ms. Deng spells her name with an inferior i, not a majestic y, thank you very much.
posted by palomar at 7:41 PM on August 14, 2016 [30 favorites]
posted by palomar at 7:41 PM on August 14, 2016 [30 favorites]
Why Trump Peddles Fear while Hillary Preaches Hope (Via Howard Dean)
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:42 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:42 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
people getting more of their news from places like Facebook
Can anyone explain to me what this means? I hear this constantly, but it makes no sense. Facebook does not publish news articles.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 7:54 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Can anyone explain to me what this means? I hear this constantly, but it makes no sense. Facebook does not publish news articles.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 7:54 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm a little confused by this new story to be honest. Did anyone really think the guy who made it his life's mission to support dictatorships around the world wasn't paid handsomely for his efforts? What part of the story is a revelation?
posted by acidic at 7:55 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by acidic at 7:55 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
> Horse races sell, blowouts don't.
True, true...but you know what else audiences can't get enough of? Disasters.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:56 PM on August 14, 2016 [18 favorites]
True, true...but you know what else audiences can't get enough of? Disasters.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:56 PM on August 14, 2016 [18 favorites]
Can anyone explain to me what this means? I hear this constantly, but it makes no sense. Facebook does not publish news articles.
Facebook doesn't publish news articles, but anyone can post a news article on their Facebook wall or on a friend's wall.
posted by peacheater at 7:56 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Facebook doesn't publish news articles, but anyone can post a news article on their Facebook wall or on a friend's wall.
posted by peacheater at 7:56 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
i am trying to come to terms with the fact that i am basically going to be the dog in a "I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IS GOING ON" meme for the remainder of this campaign.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:58 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 7:58 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
"Can anyone explain to me what this means? I hear this constantly, but it makes no sense. Facebook does not publish news articles."
It's kind of like if I said, "I get most of my Trump/Clinton news from this very thread here on MetaFilter."
posted by komara at 7:58 PM on August 14, 2016 [12 favorites]
It's kind of like if I said, "I get most of my Trump/Clinton news from this very thread here on MetaFilter."
posted by komara at 7:58 PM on August 14, 2016 [12 favorites]
Are people not aware that Facebook has a thing called trending topics that's accessible from the search bar on the mobile app? Tap on the search bar and tada, a huge list of news topics for you to read about and comment on!
posted by palomar at 7:59 PM on August 14, 2016
posted by palomar at 7:59 PM on August 14, 2016
Roger Stone just tweeted this:
"My God! @CLewandowski_ is working for @HillaryClinton now- Clinton Talking point nonsense"
#notenoughpopcorn
posted by chris24 at 8:00 PM on August 14, 2016 [12 favorites]
"My God! @CLewandowski_ is working for @HillaryClinton now- Clinton Talking point nonsense"
#notenoughpopcorn
posted by chris24 at 8:00 PM on August 14, 2016 [12 favorites]
Can anyone explain to me what this means? I hear this constantly, but it makes no sense.
Facebook publishes "trending stories", but more likely they're talking about simple sharing of news stories. Teabaggers are only friends with other teabaggers, and only link to teabagger sources, which becomes their reality. Or vice versa, Jill Stein supporters only read about how energy crystals cure wifi cancer. They trust because it came from Uncle Bill, or whoever. And it's self-reinforcing, I only see stories from people I either agree with or at least respect, because idiots reposting Glen Beck I unfriended in 2011.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:00 PM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
Facebook publishes "trending stories", but more likely they're talking about simple sharing of news stories. Teabaggers are only friends with other teabaggers, and only link to teabagger sources, which becomes their reality. Or vice versa, Jill Stein supporters only read about how energy crystals cure wifi cancer. They trust because it came from Uncle Bill, or whoever. And it's self-reinforcing, I only see stories from people I either agree with or at least respect, because idiots reposting Glen Beck I unfriended in 2011.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:00 PM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
Manafort has to be a KGB asset.
I honestly think that Manafort is worse than that: he's one of those mercenary bastards who seem to materialise in the background of the world's worst regimes and you wonder how they fuck they ended up there and how long they've been there. You can't buy them, but you can rent them for a while. Lots of them end up with very big, very nice houses in the DC suburbs.
Manafort's career is the kind of thing that conspiracy theorists point to when they want you to believe.
posted by holgate at 8:00 PM on August 14, 2016 [36 favorites]
I honestly think that Manafort is worse than that: he's one of those mercenary bastards who seem to materialise in the background of the world's worst regimes and you wonder how they fuck they ended up there and how long they've been there. You can't buy them, but you can rent them for a while. Lots of them end up with very big, very nice houses in the DC suburbs.
Manafort's career is the kind of thing that conspiracy theorists point to when they want you to believe.
posted by holgate at 8:00 PM on August 14, 2016 [36 favorites]
people getting more of their news from places like Facebook
Can anyone explain to me what this means? I hear this constantly, but it makes no sense. Facebook does not publish news articles.
Facebook is like a common carrier; links to news created and curated elsewhere are very easily shared on Facebook.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:01 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Can anyone explain to me what this means? I hear this constantly, but it makes no sense. Facebook does not publish news articles.
Facebook is like a common carrier; links to news created and curated elsewhere are very easily shared on Facebook.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:01 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Have any of the news networks picked up this latest Russian angle? Can we call them the Grand Old Putins or the Russpublicans now?
posted by vrakatar at 8:02 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 8:02 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
Manafort's old partner from the lobbying for sociopaths days, Roger Stone? Say it ain't so.
posted by Yowser at 8:03 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 8:03 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also, you can join Facebook groups, which then feed stories directly to your individual timeline if you let them. So if you liked "Moms for Sarah Palin" or whatever, whoever runs that page has a direct line to pump SarahPAC emails into your Facebook feed.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:03 PM on August 14, 2016
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:03 PM on August 14, 2016
Corey Lewandowski retweeted the NYT piece. The long knives are out.
Correction: The longest, most tremendous knives in the history of bladed weapons are out. And, you know, people tell me that they will have the most success at backstabbing ever. There's going to be so much treachery that you're going to get tired of it!
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 8:04 PM on August 14, 2016 [41 favorites]
Correction: The longest, most tremendous knives in the history of bladed weapons are out. And, you know, people tell me that they will have the most success at backstabbing ever. There's going to be so much treachery that you're going to get tired of it!
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 8:04 PM on August 14, 2016 [41 favorites]
I'm a little confused by this new story to be honest. Did anyone really think the guy who made it his life's mission to support dictatorships around the world wasn't paid handsomely for his efforts? What part of the story is a revelation?
I believe that most of the difference is between "that guy has a shadowy past" and "these are the concrete details of that guy's past." On top of that, with well known specifics you get whole new implications that you'll have a much easier time investigating- did he pay taxes on that 12 million? If he did any work advancing Ukranian interests in the US and didn't register as a foreign lobbyist, that's another crime, and there could be a lot more I don't even know. I bet you'd need a damn team of lawyers from several continents to figure out everywhere this guy's fucked up in his life.
posted by fomhar at 8:04 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
I believe that most of the difference is between "that guy has a shadowy past" and "these are the concrete details of that guy's past." On top of that, with well known specifics you get whole new implications that you'll have a much easier time investigating- did he pay taxes on that 12 million? If he did any work advancing Ukranian interests in the US and didn't register as a foreign lobbyist, that's another crime, and there could be a lot more I don't even know. I bet you'd need a damn team of lawyers from several continents to figure out everywhere this guy's fucked up in his life.
posted by fomhar at 8:04 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
Facebook publishes "trending stories", but more likely they're talking about simple sharing of news stories. Teabaggers are only friends with other teabaggers, and only link to teabagger sources, which becomes their reality. Or vice versa, Jill Stein supporters only read about how energy crystals cure wifi cancer.
The sharing thing is precisely what I was talking about, yes.
posted by mordax at 8:04 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
The sharing thing is precisely what I was talking about, yes.
posted by mordax at 8:04 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's Sunday night, vrakatar, this won't hit most places until the morning.
posted by Justinian at 8:04 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 8:04 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wait, Putin is dating Rupert Murdoch's ex-wife? Or should I say, Rupert Murdoch's ex-wife is dating Putin? She has some taste in men, that's for sure.
posted by gingerbeer at 8:06 PM on August 14, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by gingerbeer at 8:06 PM on August 14, 2016 [16 favorites]
Have any of the news networks picked up this latest Russian angle? Can we call them the Grand Old Putins or the Russpublicans now?
Slate has it, for what that's worth.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 8:06 PM on August 14, 2016
Slate has it, for what that's worth.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 8:06 PM on August 14, 2016
What part of the story is a revelation?
That not only was he paid handsomely, but he was paid handsomely off the books out of a secret slush fund. At least, that's what I got form the story.
It won't have legs with lower-info voters because there's too many moving parts. Ukraine, which isn't Russia, but which had a pro-Russia President, hired Manafort to do... something--but not a something that would require him to register as a foreign agent unless actually he did and completely broke that law--and the money he was paid with wasn't in the regular ledger but a secret ledger--it takes too long to get to the money shot and you do kind of have to already know who Yanukovych is and what the situation in Ukraine has been for the past decade. So, don't expect people to be talking about this around the water cooler. But jesus on a surfboard, it looks bad.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:06 PM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
That not only was he paid handsomely, but he was paid handsomely off the books out of a secret slush fund. At least, that's what I got form the story.
It won't have legs with lower-info voters because there's too many moving parts. Ukraine, which isn't Russia, but which had a pro-Russia President, hired Manafort to do... something--but not a something that would require him to register as a foreign agent unless actually he did and completely broke that law--and the money he was paid with wasn't in the regular ledger but a secret ledger--it takes too long to get to the money shot and you do kind of have to already know who Yanukovych is and what the situation in Ukraine has been for the past decade. So, don't expect people to be talking about this around the water cooler. But jesus on a surfboard, it looks bad.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:06 PM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
Eh, seems like a good time of night to ask Paul Ryan if it's true the Republican Party has been infiltrated by russian agents.
posted by ctmf at 8:07 PM on August 14, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 8:07 PM on August 14, 2016 [34 favorites]
(with the follow-up, "how do you know?")
posted by ctmf at 8:09 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 8:09 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
Wait, Putin is dating Rupert Murdoch's ex-wife?
seeing "dating" and "putin" in the same sentence makes me think there should be a people magazine feature titled "BLOODTHIRSTY OLIGARCHS: THEY'RE JUST LIKE US!"
posted by murphy slaw at 8:09 PM on August 14, 2016 [21 favorites]
seeing "dating" and "putin" in the same sentence makes me think there should be a people magazine feature titled "BLOODTHIRSTY OLIGARCHS: THEY'RE JUST LIKE US!"
posted by murphy slaw at 8:09 PM on August 14, 2016 [21 favorites]
It won't have legs with lower-info voters because there's too many moving parts.
Not partisans who don't want to hear, but I think 'Trump's campaign manager was taking millions under the table for Russia' sells pretty readily to anyone on the fence.
posted by chris24 at 8:10 PM on August 14, 2016 [17 favorites]
Not partisans who don't want to hear, but I think 'Trump's campaign manager was taking millions under the table for Russia' sells pretty readily to anyone on the fence.
posted by chris24 at 8:10 PM on August 14, 2016 [17 favorites]
Wait, Putin is dating Rupert Murdoch's ex-wife?
I thought she was dating Tony Blair?
posted by octothorpe at 8:12 PM on August 14, 2016
I thought she was dating Tony Blair?
posted by octothorpe at 8:12 PM on August 14, 2016
I thought she was dating Tony Blair?
tomato, tomahto
posted by leotrotsky at 8:14 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
tomato, tomahto
posted by leotrotsky at 8:14 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
Not partisans who don't want to hear, but I think 'Trump's campaign manager was taking millions under the table for Russia' sells pretty readily to anyone on the fence.
Especially on the heels of "Trump requests Russia make cyber attack on next U.S. president."
posted by dersins at 8:14 PM on August 14, 2016 [21 favorites]
Especially on the heels of "Trump requests Russia make cyber attack on next U.S. president."
posted by dersins at 8:14 PM on August 14, 2016 [21 favorites]
I have now been forced to google this: Wendi Murdoch is said to be dating Putin, according to US Weekly. Murdoch divorced her over her supposed relationship with Tony Blair.
posted by gingerbeer at 8:17 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by gingerbeer at 8:17 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
Especially on the heels of "Trump requests Russia make cyber attack on next U.S. president."
And Trump & Co changing the GOP platform to be more Putin friendly. And his sucking up to Putin, and disparaging NATO. Won't defend Baltics, will recognize Crimea, etc. This is the worst kind of news in that it seemingly confirms a lot of amorphous rumors and suspicions.
posted by chris24 at 8:17 PM on August 14, 2016 [18 favorites]
And Trump & Co changing the GOP platform to be more Putin friendly. And his sucking up to Putin, and disparaging NATO. Won't defend Baltics, will recognize Crimea, etc. This is the worst kind of news in that it seemingly confirms a lot of amorphous rumors and suspicions.
posted by chris24 at 8:17 PM on August 14, 2016 [18 favorites]
But that's why Manafort is Dishonest Donnie's main man... with a second income from Putin, he works cheaper thn anybody in the field #whatdonnielearnedinbusiness #trumpuniversity
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:18 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:18 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
Top story on CNN is "JFK terminal evacuated after report of shots fired". I read that and immediately pictured Manafort trying to flee the country with Trump in pursuit taking shots at him.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 8:18 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 8:18 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
It's kind of like if I said, "I get most of my Trump/Clinton news from this very thread here on MetaFilter."
This thread and others, that's how I'm following this campaign. What's great about Manafort and the Ukraine is that Paul Ryan can't say it was a joke that fell flat.
posted by kingless at 8:19 PM on August 14, 2016 [9 favorites]
This thread and others, that's how I'm following this campaign. What's great about Manafort and the Ukraine is that Paul Ryan can't say it was a joke that fell flat.
posted by kingless at 8:19 PM on August 14, 2016 [9 favorites]
"Manafort was secretly on the payroll of Russian intelligence for years...sarcastically."
posted by dersins at 8:21 PM on August 14, 2016 [36 favorites]
posted by dersins at 8:21 PM on August 14, 2016 [36 favorites]
In His Words: 19 Notable Thoughts From Donald Trump (today in Connecticut)
These are the rantings of an unbalanced individual.
He must know there's no way in hell he's going to win Connecticut - or at this point the general election, for that matter - so he might as well just roast everybody. I still believe he sees his most loyal followers as a bunch of sad sacks and suckers.
posted by wondermouse at 8:22 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
These are the rantings of an unbalanced individual.
He must know there's no way in hell he's going to win Connecticut - or at this point the general election, for that matter - so he might as well just roast everybody. I still believe he sees his most loyal followers as a bunch of sad sacks and suckers.
posted by wondermouse at 8:22 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
"Manafort was secretly on the payroll of Russian intelligence for years...sarcastically."
The payments were sarcastic. I even wrote quote signs around the 100s on the bills before I put them in the suitcase.
posted by dis_integration at 8:23 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
The payments were sarcastic. I even wrote quote signs around the 100s on the bills before I put them in the suitcase.
posted by dis_integration at 8:23 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
Not partisans who don't want to hear, but I think 'Trump's campaign manager was taking millions under the table for Russia' sells pretty readily to anyone on the fence.
Even partisans are worried. Not so much that the Trump campaign is a Putin stratagem, but that a former and disloyal staffer is helping out the NYT with page hits.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 8:28 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
Even partisans are worried. Not so much that the Trump campaign is a Putin stratagem, but that a former and disloyal staffer is helping out the NYT with page hits.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 8:28 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
Seems tailor-made to appeal to conspiracy-theory wing nuts. Is Ivanka getting Tiny-Hands Don's emergency instructions from Vlad via Wendi? Wouldn't want to do that over email.
posted by ctmf at 8:29 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ctmf at 8:29 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
One example of the world in which Manafort operates: back in the mid-90s he had a bit part in the biggest political corruption scandal in France's post-war history by being paid under the table from an account used to hide kickbacks from an arms deal.
Funny how he seems to end up in these situations.
posted by holgate at 8:32 PM on August 14, 2016 [17 favorites]
Funny how he seems to end up in these situations.
posted by holgate at 8:32 PM on August 14, 2016 [17 favorites]
OMG the MS Paint diagrams with Manafort, Putin, Trump, Deng, Blair... I can't wait. Except it's the wrong "side", so instead it will be acrobatics explaining how it's all perfectly normal and really Hillary is the bad one.
posted by ctmf at 8:34 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 8:34 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Statement from Robby Mook (HFA Campaign Manager) about Manafort.
posted by peacheater at 8:36 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 8:36 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Funny how he seems to end up in these situations.I find it funny that Manafort has been skating by for so long. His ties to things like the Karachi affair have been public knowledge for some time but the most I saw in the media until today were phrases like "Trump's controversial campaign manger, Paul Manafort" without any further explanation as to why one might find him controversial. There were a few exceptions to this, but not many.
I expected Manafort to be a particularly smooth operator given his connections and past history, but his interviews on the 24 hour networks have been shockingly bad. He is not at all well-spoken and makes dozens of confusing slips and errors. For instance, during one interview he kept referring to "Secretary Obama" and "President Clinton." Occasionally misspeaking is one thing, but his live interviews are jam packed with this sort of thing. Furthermore, he is devoid of charisma.
My inner conspiracy theorist wonders if Manafort fully expected to be able to control the candidate and deliver a Trump presidency for the Kremlin, but grossly underestimated how ridiculous their useful idiot was.
posted by xyzzy at 8:43 PM on August 14, 2016 [22 favorites]
Jesus Christ, how much worse can it get? Are there literal bodies buried somewhere?
Perhaps Adam Weinstein's tweet about it getting "so much worse" might have referred to what's already known about Manafort? According to this story by Michael Isikoff, Manafort lobbied for a group that was a front for the ISI, Pakistan's intelligence service.
The front group was funded by an alleged ISI agent named Zaheer Ahmad. According to Isikoff's story:
posted by compartment at 8:44 PM on August 14, 2016 [34 favorites]
Perhaps Adam Weinstein's tweet about it getting "so much worse" might have referred to what's already known about Manafort? According to this story by Michael Isikoff, Manafort lobbied for a group that was a front for the ISI, Pakistan's intelligence service.
The front group was funded by an alleged ISI agent named Zaheer Ahmad. According to Isikoff's story:
[The FBI] questioned witnesses about a trip that Ahmad had allegedly made to Afghanistan with a Pakistani nuclear scientist, Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood; the scientist was suspecting of having met with Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri in August 2001 to discuss the terror leaders’ interest in acquiring nuclear weapons.Seriously, can it really get any worse than a money trail between Trump's campaign chairman and a guy who met met with Osama bin Laden in August 2001 about acquiring nuclear weapons?
posted by compartment at 8:44 PM on August 14, 2016 [34 favorites]
Today's head-scratcher op-ed: I Support You, Donald Trump. Now Release Your Tax Returns, by Mark "Hiking the Appalachian Trail" Sanford (who, I remind you, used public funds to fly to Argentina to see his lover, and whose behavior at his family's home was sufficiently off-base so as to require "no airplanes will be flown at children" to be inserted into a child custody agreement).
Sanford, who I remind you was so into transparency as Governor that he completely disappeared for six days and nobody from his wife to the state police knew where he was, writes:
Sanford, who I remind you was so into transparency as Governor that he completely disappeared for six days and nobody from his wife to the state police knew where he was, writes:
In fact, the real issue is not even about presidential tax returns. Rather, it’s about the hundreds of down-ballot races, in states and localities, and the transparency voters deserve here, too. I ran twice for governor of South Carolina, and I released my tax returns both times. To be frank, it felt a bit like a colonoscopy: I didn’t like it, but it was our tradition in South Carolina. The power of staying true to the precedent that had been set prevailed. If presidential candidates won’t release their tax returns, you can expect the same in the states. If a presidential nominee doesn’t do it, why should a candidate for governor?posted by zachlipton at 8:45 PM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
Facebook is like a common carrier
in the epidemiological sense
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 8:45 PM on August 14, 2016 [37 favorites]
in the epidemiological sense
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 8:45 PM on August 14, 2016 [37 favorites]
Seriously, can it really get any worse than a money trail between Trump's campaign chairman and a guy who met met with Osama bin Laden in August 2001 about acquiring nuclear weapons?
Holy shit... what if "Obama Founded ISIS" was another one of those attacks where they're just projecting the actual truth about the trump campaign?
posted by codacorolla at 8:46 PM on August 14, 2016 [48 favorites]
Holy shit... what if "Obama Founded ISIS" was another one of those attacks where they're just projecting the actual truth about the trump campaign?
posted by codacorolla at 8:46 PM on August 14, 2016 [48 favorites]
"The Republican Party is infested with communists. I have here in my hand a list of 205—a list of names that were made known to the Speaker of the House as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping policy in the Republican Party."
posted by kirkaracha at 8:46 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 8:46 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
except unlike HUAC it appears to be literally true this time
posted by dersins at 8:48 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by dersins at 8:48 PM on August 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
"in 2005, George W. Bush's WH called Sen. McCain to say Manafort's firm was undercutting US foreign policy in Ukraine" (via)
posted by Rumple at 8:48 PM on August 14, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by Rumple at 8:48 PM on August 14, 2016 [26 favorites]
To be frank, it felt a bit like a colonoscopy: I didn’t like it, but it was our tradition in South Carolina.
Colonoscopies are a South Carolina tradition? Or just up-the-butt stuff in general?
posted by kirkaracha at 8:50 PM on August 14, 2016 [28 favorites]
It won't have legs with lower-info voters because there's too many moving parts. [...] So, don't expect people to be talking about this around the water cooler.
Unless you start off by asking them if they've heard about Hillary Clinton's campaign manager getting $12.7 million in illegal payments from the Russians, at which point all you have to do is wait until your interlocutor throws it into EXECUTE HER FOR TREASON, at which point you interject "oh wait, did I say Hillary Clinton's campaign manager? I meant Donald Trump's. Yes, I agree, it's definitely treason!" And then enjoy the Simone Biles-esque twists and turns to get out of that one.
Seriously, can it really get any worse than a money trail between Trump's campaign chairman and a guy who met met with Osama bin Laden in August 2001 about acquiring nuclear weapons?
Manafort was clearly being sarcastic. Duh!
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 8:50 PM on August 14, 2016 [39 favorites]
Unless you start off by asking them if they've heard about Hillary Clinton's campaign manager getting $12.7 million in illegal payments from the Russians, at which point all you have to do is wait until your interlocutor throws it into EXECUTE HER FOR TREASON, at which point you interject "oh wait, did I say Hillary Clinton's campaign manager? I meant Donald Trump's. Yes, I agree, it's definitely treason!" And then enjoy the Simone Biles-esque twists and turns to get out of that one.
Seriously, can it really get any worse than a money trail between Trump's campaign chairman and a guy who met met with Osama bin Laden in August 2001 about acquiring nuclear weapons?
Manafort was clearly being sarcastic. Duh!
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 8:50 PM on August 14, 2016 [39 favorites]
what if "Obama Founded ISIS" was another one of those attacks where they're just projecting the actual truth about the trump campaign?
No, seriously: IT'S ALWAYS PROJECTION.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:54 PM on August 14, 2016 [17 favorites]
No, seriously: IT'S ALWAYS PROJECTION.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:54 PM on August 14, 2016 [17 favorites]
That Osama Bin Laden connection for Manafort in August 2001: he was just making sure the 9/11 hijackers wouldn't crash the planes into TRUMP Tower. Just good business.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:01 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:01 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
I found this site called Google that has lots of stories about Manafort. E.g.,
MOBUTU IN SEARCH OF AN IMAGE BOOST
GOP Consultant Admits Using Influence to Obtain HUD Grant but Defends Action
FIRM REGISTERING AS LOBBYIST FOR GROUP LINKED TO MARCOS
and
A Political Power Broker
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:02 PM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
MOBUTU IN SEARCH OF AN IMAGE BOOST
for someone who wants to clean up his image, Mobutu has chosen an odd PR team. He has been hobnobbing with a face from the past -- Tongsun Park, the central figure in the "Koreagate" congressional bribery scandal of 1976. And he has hired the premier Washington lobbying firm of the present -- Black Manafort Stone & Kelly, implicated in the Housing and Urban Development Department scandal.HUD scandal? Oh:
GOP Consultant Admits Using Influence to Obtain HUD Grant but Defends Action
Manafort's high-powered lobbying and public relations firm received a $326,000 fee for its work in getting HUD approval of the grant largely through personal influence with Deborah Gore Dean, an executive assistant to former HUD Secretary Samuel R. Pierce Jr., he said.Also:
Later, Manafort became a 20% partner in the development firm that acquired the 326-unit apartment project that benefited from HUD's grant to provide improved housing for low-income people.
FIRM REGISTERING AS LOBBYIST FOR GROUP LINKED TO MARCOS
and
A Political Power Broker
In the 1988 campaign it was disclosed that the Bahamas was a client of Black, Manafort at a time the island nation's leadership was being attacked for alleged ties to drug traffickers. Black, Manafort officials insisted that they intended only to help the Bahamas obtain more United States aid for efforts to curb drug smugglers.It's kinda weird that someone whose press is so unfailingly negative would be a partner in a PR firm or work on a campaign, but I guess it just goes to show. Anywa, there's lots and lots out there; this is just from the first page of results limited to before 2003.
The concern has also been criticized for efforts to bolster the public image of Jonas Savimbi, the guerrilla leader seeking to overthrow the Angolan Government.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:02 PM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
Something that has been bothering me for a while: if America is so terrible and Mexico is the "eighth wonder of the world" and takes all our jobs, why do we need Trump's deportation force at all? Surely people should be clamoring to get back into Mexico if the situation is as he describes it.
posted by zachlipton at 10:20 PM
You are not alone in asking that question.
Yesterday morning I decided that we should all be pushing the Russian connection, only I thought the angle would be "How can we elect someone to the Presidency who owes so much money (100's of millions) to Russia? " My husband told me that was the wrong tactic because it makes the Democrats look like they are buying into a big conspiracy theory. Now, I just don't know.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:03 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:20 PM
You are not alone in asking that question.
Yesterday morning I decided that we should all be pushing the Russian connection, only I thought the angle would be "How can we elect someone to the Presidency who owes so much money (100's of millions) to Russia? " My husband told me that was the wrong tactic because it makes the Democrats look like they are buying into a big conspiracy theory. Now, I just don't know.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:03 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
I mean, most of Manafort's clients have gotten terrible press, perhaps because they've largely been terrible people. It does raise some questions about his abilities though.
posted by zachlipton at 9:06 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:06 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
You are not alone in asking that question.
Indeed, as I now see I've already favorited that comment. Good work brain.
posted by zachlipton at 9:06 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Indeed, as I now see I've already favorited that comment. Good work brain.
posted by zachlipton at 9:06 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
I think 'Trump's campaign manager was taking millions under the table for Russia' sells pretty readily to anyone on the fence.
Money stories usually cause people's eyes to glaze over, but actual pictures of a hand-scrawled secret ledger -- that's a scene right out of Hollywood.
posted by JackFlash at 9:08 PM on August 14, 2016 [17 favorites]
Money stories usually cause people's eyes to glaze over, but actual pictures of a hand-scrawled secret ledger -- that's a scene right out of Hollywood.
posted by JackFlash at 9:08 PM on August 14, 2016 [17 favorites]
*looks up from manuscript which literally contains a secret political ledger*
Damnit
posted by The Whelk at 9:11 PM on August 14, 2016 [62 favorites]
Damnit
posted by The Whelk at 9:11 PM on August 14, 2016 [62 favorites]
Yeah Manafort is clearly some kind of vampire and it says something about Trump that he couldn't find anyone else to run his campaign besides the Torturer's Lobbyist. If that's who he gets to run his campaign, who will run his State dept, or his Homeland Security?
posted by dis_integration at 9:12 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 9:12 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
Mark Agee: Jesus Christ what's more Bond villain than a "secret zoo"
posted by ctmf at 9:13 PM on August 14, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 9:13 PM on August 14, 2016 [20 favorites]
Yeah Manafort is clearly some kind of vampire and it says something about Trump that he couldn't find anyone else to run his campaign besides the Torturer's Lobbyist. If that's who he gets to run his campaign, who will run his State dept, or his Homeland Security?
The Lobbyist's Torturer, clearly.
posted by dersins at 9:14 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
The Lobbyist's Torturer, clearly.
posted by dersins at 9:14 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump: It's actually 2017, the election was last year, and I'm already the president
posted by theodolite at 9:14 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by theodolite at 9:14 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Manafort is clearly some kind of vampire
Either that or he has a truly terrifying portrait of himself locked in a Trump Tower storage room.
posted by holgate at 9:18 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Either that or he has a truly terrifying portrait of himself locked in a Trump Tower storage room.
posted by holgate at 9:18 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Jesus Christ I take ONE DAY to go have a life and WHAT
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:21 PM on August 14, 2016 [55 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:21 PM on August 14, 2016 [55 favorites]
Mark Agee: Jesus Christ what's more Bond villain than a "secret zoo"
Yanukovych's collection of animals were a big deal back in 2014 when he, and his household staff, fled, leaving all sorts of animals behind. Random citizens showed up to have a look at the animals and volunteers helped take care of them.
posted by zachlipton at 9:23 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yanukovych's collection of animals were a big deal back in 2014 when he, and his household staff, fled, leaving all sorts of animals behind. Random citizens showed up to have a look at the animals and volunteers helped take care of them.
posted by zachlipton at 9:23 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
a suggestion for Katrina Pierson tomorrow: "We have discovered that Paul Manafort, a foreign agent and friend to dictators around the world, was secretly assigned to undermine the Trump campaign from within by the founders of ISIS, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama."
posted by acidic at 9:27 PM on August 14, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by acidic at 9:27 PM on August 14, 2016 [19 favorites]
I think Trump will continue to have a lot of support because the universe where Clinton is evil and the media lies makes way more sense than the real one
posted by theodolite at 9:28 PM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 9:28 PM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
everything about this campaign is completely nuts and the only reason I believe any of it is because I hear about it from what I consider to be generally trustworthy sources
posted by theodolite at 9:32 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 9:32 PM on August 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
When I was reading about the security briefings I found out it is for the nominee of each party and one or two advisers. I wonder if Manafort is accompanying Trump to his briefings.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:36 PM on August 14, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:36 PM on August 14, 2016 [26 favorites]
except unlike HUAC it appears to be literally true this time
Seriously, Putin's best move now that Trump isn't going to succeed is to claim credit for Manafort (whether true or not) and smugly "let slip" that he has several plants high up in both US parties. Make popcorn, watch chaos.
posted by ctmf at 9:37 PM on August 14, 2016
Seriously, Putin's best move now that Trump isn't going to succeed is to claim credit for Manafort (whether true or not) and smugly "let slip" that he has several plants high up in both US parties. Make popcorn, watch chaos.
posted by ctmf at 9:37 PM on August 14, 2016
Now we know what donnie meant when he told Conn. he'd never forgive them if he lost- he'll have the whole state whacked by the Russian mob.
posted by vrakatar at 9:42 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by vrakatar at 9:42 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
I still remember being creeped out by Manafort after reading this longer profile on him in Slate from April.
posted by localhuman at 10:18 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 10:18 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
I only occasionally checked in on this thread this weekend in between birthday-related outings, errands, and playing Stardew Valley, and I figured it'd be a light news weekend for Election 2016. Only to return to this thread and news of this Manafort omnishambles. I don't even know how to deal with this. I'm going to go back to tending my farm.
posted by yasaman at 10:22 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 10:22 PM on August 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
"I figured it'd be a light news weekend for Election 2016. "
Trump can't STAND being out of the news. The smart money is on DOUBLE EXTRA CRAZY during the Olympics because DUDE NEEDS HIS CAMERAS and this fortnight he has to compete for them!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:38 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump can't STAND being out of the news. The smart money is on DOUBLE EXTRA CRAZY during the Olympics because DUDE NEEDS HIS CAMERAS and this fortnight he has to compete for them!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:38 PM on August 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Hillary Clinton’s Edge in a Donald Trump-Centric Race Has Liberals Wary
She's got plenty of policy, and I hope we hear more about it in the debates, because right now centerpieces of her campaign like childcare have gotten maybe 12 seconds of attention, and four seconds of that were spent on Trump's lies on the subject. It's a understandable combination of her staying quiet while her opponent keeps making mistakes, which is just smart strategy, and nobody wanting to cover detailed policy proposals which are old news when they can talk about the Khans or babies or fire marshals or "Second Amendment people" or ISIS Russians or whatever tomorrow's thing is instead, but the result is that policy, which is Clinton's strength and Trump's undoing, is almost completely absent from the discussion.
Because otherwise, in my nightmares, the first woman to hold the job will be deemed to have "not really earned it" because of who she ran against, and we'll have to sit through years of the same people who enabled Trump telling us that Clinton has no mandate for any of her proposals.
posted by zachlipton at 10:39 PM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
A strategy of courting Republicans and focusing closely on Mr. Trump, they say, may impede Hillary Clinton’s ability to claim a policy mandate if elected.I'm not as worried about the "oh she's secretly on the right" arguments, but rather that, heaven hope she wins, the Republicans will start saying "yeah but she didn't really win because she ran against a buffoon, so why should we listen to any of her policy proposals?"
She's got plenty of policy, and I hope we hear more about it in the debates, because right now centerpieces of her campaign like childcare have gotten maybe 12 seconds of attention, and four seconds of that were spent on Trump's lies on the subject. It's a understandable combination of her staying quiet while her opponent keeps making mistakes, which is just smart strategy, and nobody wanting to cover detailed policy proposals which are old news when they can talk about the Khans or babies or fire marshals or "Second Amendment people" or ISIS Russians or whatever tomorrow's thing is instead, but the result is that policy, which is Clinton's strength and Trump's undoing, is almost completely absent from the discussion.
Because otherwise, in my nightmares, the first woman to hold the job will be deemed to have "not really earned it" because of who she ran against, and we'll have to sit through years of the same people who enabled Trump telling us that Clinton has no mandate for any of her proposals.
posted by zachlipton at 10:39 PM on August 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
Clinton 0.8% away from 90% chance in polls-only
posted by tzikeh at 10:45 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by tzikeh at 10:45 PM on August 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Paul Manafort: "Donald Trump is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life."
posted by kirkaracha at 10:46 PM on August 14, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 10:46 PM on August 14, 2016 [15 favorites]
Well considering the company he usually keeps that statement is probably true.
posted by PenDevil at 10:48 PM on August 14, 2016 [38 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 10:48 PM on August 14, 2016 [38 favorites]
That was quite a lot of story spun basically from being able to quote Robert Reich and Ben Jealous. It's also forgetting that Obama's 2008 mandate (with control of the House and Senate) was deemed not a mandate by Mitch McConnell from the outset. As Josh Marshall put it back in February 2009, Washington is still "wired for Republicans", and most mainstream GOP policies (which are somewhat different from Trumpian ones) are considered respectable by default in ways that Dem policies are not.
posted by holgate at 10:49 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by holgate at 10:49 PM on August 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
we'll have to sit through years of the same people who enabled Trump telling us that Clinton has no mandate for any of her proposals
Then let's get her a mandate! Volunteer for the campaign. Donate. Find competitive House and Senate races and support Democrats and independents. Support the DSSC (Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee) and DCCC (Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee). Register to vote and help other people register. Vertify your voter registration status or check your polling place.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:03 PM on August 14, 2016 [25 favorites]
So raise your hand if you think Paul Ryan and RNC muckity mucks are getting any sleep tonight.
Upthread or in the other thread I commented that many desks at the RNC must have permanent forehead dents by now.
Pretty sure that now at least a few are developing full on cracks.
posted by Jalliah at 11:05 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
Upthread or in the other thread I commented that many desks at the RNC must have permanent forehead dents by now.
Pretty sure that now at least a few are developing full on cracks.
posted by Jalliah at 11:05 PM on August 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
Because otherwise, in my nightmares, the first woman to hold the job will be deemed to have "not really earned it" because of who she ran against, and we'll have to sit through years of the same people who enabled Trump telling us that Clinton has no mandate for any of her proposals.
That's going to happen regardless. Unless she takes back both houses. And if she doesn't win the Senate, they will continue the unprecedented obstruction and will not permit her to appoint a SCOTUS justice, or possibly confirm any executive appointments at all.
We're through the looking glass here, the Republican party understands only dominance politics now, only votes matter. If they still have 51, they will obstruct every single thing knowing that they will reap rewards anyway in the midterms.
Don't kid yourself that even a Trump wipeout will alter a single thing about the current Republican party. They will continue the obstruction regardless, only the rationale with change slightly from "he's a Kenyan muslim" to "she's corrupt and Bill did suff in the 90s".
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:06 PM on August 14, 2016 [36 favorites]
That's going to happen regardless. Unless she takes back both houses. And if she doesn't win the Senate, they will continue the unprecedented obstruction and will not permit her to appoint a SCOTUS justice, or possibly confirm any executive appointments at all.
We're through the looking glass here, the Republican party understands only dominance politics now, only votes matter. If they still have 51, they will obstruct every single thing knowing that they will reap rewards anyway in the midterms.
Don't kid yourself that even a Trump wipeout will alter a single thing about the current Republican party. They will continue the obstruction regardless, only the rationale with change slightly from "he's a Kenyan muslim" to "she's corrupt and Bill did suff in the 90s".
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:06 PM on August 14, 2016 [36 favorites]
Corey Lewandowski is the poor, scrappy, underdog thuggish political agent in the ‘80s movie where Paul Manafort is the rich, snobby thuggish political agent from the other side of town.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:09 PM on August 14, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 11:09 PM on August 14, 2016 [31 favorites]
So raise your hand if you think Paul Ryan and RNC muckity mucks are getting any sleep tonight.
I'm not sure I care if their sleep is disturbed. Republicans have had many opportunities to say No, and they chose to sell out this country to a dictator like Putin. Fuck those ass-hyphen-clowns.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:13 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure I care if their sleep is disturbed. Republicans have had many opportunities to say No, and they chose to sell out this country to a dictator like Putin. Fuck those ass-hyphen-clowns.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:13 PM on August 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
I wondered why Trump was suddenly whining about "crooked media"; the NYT must have given him advance notice they were going to run the story.
posted by jamjam at 11:59 PM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by jamjam at 11:59 PM on August 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
In this situation any sensible candidate would use this as an opportunity to fire Manafort and hire someone else who might turn around his campaign.
So I assume Trump will stand behind Manafort and then whine on Twitter about how the crooked media is completely ignoring the story about Hillary taking $12M from the Russians.
posted by mmoncur at 12:10 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
So I assume Trump will stand behind Manafort and then whine on Twitter about how the crooked media is completely ignoring the story about Hillary taking $12M from the Russians.
posted by mmoncur at 12:10 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm not as worried about the "oh she's secretly on the right" arguments, but rather that, heaven hope she wins, the Republicans will start saying "yeah but she didn't really win because she ran against a buffoon, so why should we listen to any of her policy proposals?"
They're not going to say that the candidate that they selected and endorsed was a no-hoper. I'm sure they'll come up with some reason, but it's not going to be that.
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:16 AM on August 15, 2016
They're not going to say that the candidate that they selected and endorsed was a no-hoper. I'm sure they'll come up with some reason, but it's not going to be that.
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:16 AM on August 15, 2016
Trump is the Democrats' fault, you guys:
The Democrats Who Cried Wolf
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:25 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Democrats Who Cried Wolf
[...] Miller, who was communications director for Jeb Bush’s ill-fated presidential campaign, has been a consistent and outspoken Trump critic, but he still argued that overheated reaction to past Republicans had hurt the effort to beat Trump. “I was also just thinking about the time a top Obama aide confronted me and asked how I could sleep at night supporting Mitt Romney,” he told me.via The Debate Link
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:25 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Then let's get her a mandate!Yes, let's. Just this weekend I listened to a radio interview with the Republican candidate for the 22nd district in NY, which is considered a battleground district and vulnerable to turning blue by the DNC. She literally vowed, TWICE, to continue Republican obstructionism in the event of a Clinton presidency. I have no reason to believe that this obnoxious woman is an outlier. This millennium's Do Nothing Congress intends to continue on as it has done for the last six years.
posted by xyzzy at 12:35 AM on August 15, 2016 [19 favorites]
I wonder what Clinton and her team have planned for how to deal with another obstructionist Congress. It's such a likely outcome, surely they have some kind of strategy on deck.
posted by rifflesby at 12:43 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by rifflesby at 12:43 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
*looks up from manuscript which literally contains a secret political ledger*
I see that the cursed-typewriter-that-turns-fiction-into-reality has fallen into the possession of The Whelk.
posted by um at 12:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [25 favorites]
I see that the cursed-typewriter-that-turns-fiction-into-reality has fallen into the possession of The Whelk.
posted by um at 12:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [25 favorites]
I think the problem is that while the cursed-typewriter may be in The Whelk's home office, somebody else has snuck in while he was at lunch and started writing their dystopian sci-fi novel.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:01 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:01 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Hey, what The Whelk chooses to write on the cursed-typewriter-that-turns-fiction-into-reality is between The Whelk and the cursed-typewriter-that-turns-fiction-into-reality. Not gonna judge. Actually, probably will judge a tiny bit. Especially if it's Fallout fanfic.
posted by um at 1:06 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by um at 1:06 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
My cynicism has reached new levels. I think this new damning Russian connection will vanish by the end of the week with consequences no more dire than any Trump will face. Meanwhile, Hillary will be photographed at some point scratching her nose and there will be two weeks of FOX special reports on how she has nose cancer. NPR will ask why we aren't focusing as much on her nose as on Trump's Russian connections and the world will inch a little closer to ultimate stupidity. Mike Judge will be hailed as a prophet.
PROVE ME WRONG AMERICA I'M BEGGING YOU
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:08 AM on August 15, 2016 [42 favorites]
PROVE ME WRONG AMERICA I'M BEGGING YOU
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:08 AM on August 15, 2016 [42 favorites]
Trump has upended our politics. But he turns out to be the guy you would pray not to sit next to at dinner.
The final insult: Donald Trump is a bore (WaPo)
posted by salix at 1:35 AM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
The final insult: Donald Trump is a bore (WaPo)
posted by salix at 1:35 AM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
I want to say that the headlines about Manafort surprised me so much that I dropped cracker crumbs all over my shirt - you know, in surprise - but you and I both know they were already there.
posted by teponaztli at 1:39 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by teponaztli at 1:39 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
Also someone please photoshop a picture of him onto the cover of a Manowar album and change the text to say Manafort.
posted by teponaztli at 1:41 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by teponaztli at 1:41 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Breitbart commissions national poll from Gravis to get around media "manipulating polls"—and finds Clinton up 42-37.
posted by PenDevil at 2:42 AM on August 15, 2016 [33 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 2:42 AM on August 15, 2016 [33 favorites]
Which is better to support: the DSCC or the Senate Majority PAC?
posted by DanSachs at 2:43 AM on August 15, 2016
posted by DanSachs at 2:43 AM on August 15, 2016
> "I assume Trump will stand behind Manafort and then whine on Twitter about how the crooked media is completely ignoring the story about Hillary taking $12M from the Russians."
"A senior adviser to Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump on Sunday said Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton and her husband have 'real connections' to Russia. 'There's concrete evidence of the coziness between the Clintons and Russia,' Boris Epshteyn said on Fox News." [Real]
Epshteyn went on to make the argument that the Donald Trump "was rubber" whereas Hillary Clinton "was glue". [Fake]
posted by kyrademon at 3:23 AM on August 15, 2016 [19 favorites]
"A senior adviser to Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump on Sunday said Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton and her husband have 'real connections' to Russia. 'There's concrete evidence of the coziness between the Clintons and Russia,' Boris Epshteyn said on Fox News." [Real]
Epshteyn went on to make the argument that the Donald Trump "was rubber" whereas Hillary Clinton "was glue". [Fake]
posted by kyrademon at 3:23 AM on August 15, 2016 [19 favorites]
They're sending some dude named Boris out there to complain that no, the other side is cozier with Russia?
Reality is desperately tapping out and praying for John Cena to come to the ring with a chair.
posted by Etrigan at 3:53 AM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
Reality is desperately tapping out and praying for John Cena to come to the ring with a chair.
posted by Etrigan at 3:53 AM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
From Politico, take with grain of salt:
RNC considers cutting cash to Trump
GOP officials lay the groundwork to blame their nominee if Clinton wins.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:55 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
RNC considers cutting cash to Trump
GOP officials lay the groundwork to blame their nominee if Clinton wins.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:55 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
From Politico: The GOP establishment strikes back
Late in the 2016 primary season, GOP donors and groups look to send a message by declaring open war on several House Freedom Caucus-endorsed candidates.
...
A collection of Republican donors and operatives loosely organized around several super PACs decided this summer to adopt newly aggressive tactics against GOP “obstructionists” — or as John Hart, a former aide to ex-Sen. Tom Coburn, calls them: “Rebels In Name Only” — after years of growing tea-party influence in Republican primaries and the halls of Congress.
If true, this is good news for anyone who prefers a functioning government to one that's frozen in its tracks by obdurate obstructionists.
posted by syzygy at 4:00 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Late in the 2016 primary season, GOP donors and groups look to send a message by declaring open war on several House Freedom Caucus-endorsed candidates.
...
A collection of Republican donors and operatives loosely organized around several super PACs decided this summer to adopt newly aggressive tactics against GOP “obstructionists” — or as John Hart, a former aide to ex-Sen. Tom Coburn, calls them: “Rebels In Name Only” — after years of growing tea-party influence in Republican primaries and the halls of Congress.
If true, this is good news for anyone who prefers a functioning government to one that's frozen in its tracks by obdurate obstructionists.
posted by syzygy at 4:00 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Among the talk about the sharp dividing line in terms of education in terms of Trump voters and Clinton voters in this Bloomberg article, is a disturbing statistic about voter apathy among young voters. Apparently the percent of young voters saying they will vote has fallen from 60% in June to 46% now. In 2012 at the same time point that number was 64%.
I guess there are two explanations possible - disgruntled possible Republican voters who are disgusted with Trump and prefer to stay home, or Democrat voters who are not happy with the choice for Democratic nominee. Given the time at which this change happened I suspect the latter is more likely and that makes me sad - first, that the theory of false equivalence has taken such hold in this country that people cannot understand why it is important to actually vote for Clinton and not Trump and secondly because of all the down-ticket races.
To tell you the truth, while I fully believe that Sanders himself is very much for Clinton and against Trump, he has still not given her the full-throated support I believe she deserves and does not seem likely to. By staying in the race far after it became mathematically impossible for him to win, he seems to have allowed a sizable fraction of his supporters to believe that something truly hinky went on (internal emails notwithstanding, there is nothing to suggest that the actual polls were in anyway affected, given that they were not even conducted by the DNC). His endorsement at the DNC was good, but followed immediately by his leaving the Democrats again. Rather that supporting the Democrats when there is a chance to build a true liberal coalition, he seems to be devoting his emails to talk of the Revolution and the absolute necessity of primarying out DWS in Florida. Among all this, it's no wonder people are apathetic and think that they are stuck with two bad choices. It's a shame, because as I've said before, Clinton deserves better than this, after a lifetime of public service in the face of constant attacks.
posted by peacheater at 4:21 AM on August 15, 2016 [33 favorites]
I guess there are two explanations possible - disgruntled possible Republican voters who are disgusted with Trump and prefer to stay home, or Democrat voters who are not happy with the choice for Democratic nominee. Given the time at which this change happened I suspect the latter is more likely and that makes me sad - first, that the theory of false equivalence has taken such hold in this country that people cannot understand why it is important to actually vote for Clinton and not Trump and secondly because of all the down-ticket races.
To tell you the truth, while I fully believe that Sanders himself is very much for Clinton and against Trump, he has still not given her the full-throated support I believe she deserves and does not seem likely to. By staying in the race far after it became mathematically impossible for him to win, he seems to have allowed a sizable fraction of his supporters to believe that something truly hinky went on (internal emails notwithstanding, there is nothing to suggest that the actual polls were in anyway affected, given that they were not even conducted by the DNC). His endorsement at the DNC was good, but followed immediately by his leaving the Democrats again. Rather that supporting the Democrats when there is a chance to build a true liberal coalition, he seems to be devoting his emails to talk of the Revolution and the absolute necessity of primarying out DWS in Florida. Among all this, it's no wonder people are apathetic and think that they are stuck with two bad choices. It's a shame, because as I've said before, Clinton deserves better than this, after a lifetime of public service in the face of constant attacks.
posted by peacheater at 4:21 AM on August 15, 2016 [33 favorites]
At this point what I wish Sanders would do is shout from the rooftops "Nothing hinky went on you guys! I was always a longshot! I did way better than I expected to! Thank you! But she won fair and square! All I wanted was to push the platform to the left! And we did! So get back out there and support the person who is running on our platform! Woo! U! S! A! Go Democrats! Yay for democracy!"
Something like that.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:37 AM on August 15, 2016 [45 favorites]
Something like that.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:37 AM on August 15, 2016 [45 favorites]
Since June, the election's been all about Trump. I don't blame young voters for preferring to stay in and play Super Bomberman or arrange their stamp collection or whatever it is junior folks do these days. I hope that as November draws night, Clinton (better yet, the Obamas) gets on their case and jollies them out of their perfect reasonable cynicism.
posted by Devonian at 4:42 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Devonian at 4:42 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Counterpoint: Vermont Primary Saw Bids By Young People Inspired By Bernie Sanders
posted by maggiemaggie at 4:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by maggiemaggie at 4:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
At this point what I wish Sanders would do is shout from the rooftops "Nothing hinky went on you guys! I was always a longshot! I did way better than I expected to! Thank you! But she won fair and square! All I wanted was to push the platform to the left! And we did! So get back out there and support the person who is running on our platform! Woo! U! S! A! Go Democrats! Yay for democracy!"
"Look at that. Clinton silenced Bernie so completely that he has to go and scream from rooftops."
"Hey, isn't that dangerous? I bet Clinton's wants him to get killed."
"Yeah, another Clinton 'accident'"
"LOCK HER UP! LOCK HER UP!"
posted by PlusDistance at 5:01 AM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
"Look at that. Clinton silenced Bernie so completely that he has to go and scream from rooftops."
"Hey, isn't that dangerous? I bet Clinton's wants him to get killed."
"Yeah, another Clinton 'accident'"
"LOCK HER UP! LOCK HER UP!"
posted by PlusDistance at 5:01 AM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
Trump to Propose Political Tests for Immigrants (Yahoo! link, but it's AP)
"Trump is also expected to propose creating a new, ideological test for admission to the country that would assess a candidate's stances on issues like religious freedom, gender equality and gay rights. Through questionnaires, searching social media, interviewing friends and family or other means, applicants would be vetted to see whether they support American values like tolerance and pluralism." [real]
posted by box at 5:06 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Trump is also expected to propose creating a new, ideological test for admission to the country that would assess a candidate's stances on issues like religious freedom, gender equality and gay rights. Through questionnaires, searching social media, interviewing friends and family or other means, applicants would be vetted to see whether they support American values like tolerance and pluralism." [real]
posted by box at 5:06 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
that test will do a great job of helping us turn away people fleeing from repressive regimes
posted by murphy slaw at 5:09 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 5:09 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Would his followers pass the test?
posted by infini at 5:12 AM on August 15, 2016 [63 favorites]
posted by infini at 5:12 AM on August 15, 2016 [63 favorites]
I've hit this weird point where I can't talk about the latest Trump news without laughing. I know it's not funny but I've reached absurdity overflow at something. Was telling my Dad about the Manafort story while we were making coffee this am and it took ages because I couldn't complete a sentence without giggling. "So Dad another big Trump story came out last... hee hee, ha ha, hee hee hee... NIGHT"
posted by Jalliah at 5:14 AM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by Jalliah at 5:14 AM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
Would he?
posted by Devonian at 5:14 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 5:14 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Would he?
Considering he'll say literally anything to get what he wants, I'm going to say yes. His followers? Not so much.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:30 AM on August 15, 2016
Considering he'll say literally anything to get what he wants, I'm going to say yes. His followers? Not so much.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:30 AM on August 15, 2016
Aside from the other, even more important, issues with this kind of purity test for immigrants, can you imagine how INSANELY expensive it would be to run something like that? Not just administering the paperwork, but hiring people to essentially social media stalk on a person by person basis?
posted by sallybrown at 5:30 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 5:30 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
So in Trump's world there's all these terrorists masquerading as refugees attempting to enter the United States. Actually a few of the terrorists that were involved in recent attacks in Europe entered as refugees so maybe these terrorists are not entirely figments of Trump's imagination. So these terrorists are willing to kill and die for their cause but they are unwilling to lie on an immigration form.
posted by rdr at 5:31 AM on August 15, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by rdr at 5:31 AM on August 15, 2016 [22 favorites]
Would his followers pass the test?
Could you imagine what this "test" would look like after the law passed through a Republican Congress? How much "religious freedom, gender equality and gay rights" do you think would be left? We'd wind up with something like:
Could you imagine what this "test" would look like after the law passed through a Republican Congress? How much "religious freedom, gender equality and gay rights" do you think would be left? We'd wind up with something like:
- How much do you looove America? (scale of 1 to 10)
- Really?
- Are you just doing that Muslim thing where it's OK to lie to nonbelievers?
- Draw a picture of Muhammed in the space below.
GOP “obstructionists” — or as John Hart, a former aide to ex-Sen. Tom Coburn, calls them: “Rebels In Name Only”
Calling them RINOs is a neat trick.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:38 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Calling them RINOs is a neat trick.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:38 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Ivanka is on vacation with Wendi Deng Murdoch, who is dating Vladimir Putin
Wut. I am srsly tilted-doghead-confused. Do . . I mean . . If . .
posted by petebest at 5:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
Wut. I am srsly tilted-doghead-confused. Do . . I mean . . If . .
posted by petebest at 5:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
It's okay guys, he's denied taking the money. It was just that darn liberal rag the NYT acting up again!
posted by yhbc at 5:47 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by yhbc at 5:47 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's okay guys, he's denied taking the money. It was just that darn liberal rag the NYT acting up again!
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!
posted by Thorzdad at 5:51 AM on August 15, 2016
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!
posted by Thorzdad at 5:51 AM on August 15, 2016
I'm honestly amazed that they're pushing back on congresscritters that don't want to do the job of governing. Roger Marshall isn't all that different in views from Tim Huelskamp being anti-ACA, anti-regulation, anti-choice, anti-ESA, anti-gun control but the question is whether he can be brought to heel when Ryan requires it and not force the Republicans to act as a minority government in the house.
I expect they plowed money into the campaign with the memo line "We Own You" and will just primary Marshall out if he's not subservient or has any aspirations about a certain "Freedom" caucus.
posted by Talez at 5:54 AM on August 15, 2016
I expect they plowed money into the campaign with the memo line "We Own You" and will just primary Marshall out if he's not subservient or has any aspirations about a certain "Freedom" caucus.
posted by Talez at 5:54 AM on August 15, 2016
So in Trump's world there's all these terrorists masquerading as refugees attempting to enter the United States. Actually a few of the terrorists that were involved in recent attacks in Europe entered as refugees so maybe these terrorists are not entirely figments of Trump's imagination. So these terrorists are willing to kill and die for their cause but they are unwilling to lie on an immigration form.
Well, you might not have filled one out recently but I have. I had to swear that I wasn't a member of either the Nazi Party or the Communist Party.
America is safe from regimes that no longer exist!
posted by srboisvert at 5:59 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
Well, you might not have filled one out recently but I have. I had to swear that I wasn't a member of either the Nazi Party or the Communist Party.
America is safe from regimes that no longer exist!
posted by srboisvert at 5:59 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
So I get into the car a few minutes ago and hear NPR say "Next we have Cokie Roberts and a Republican pollster discuss whether Donald Trump should be attacking Hillary Clinton more about her email problems." I switched to a music channel.
posted by octothorpe at 6:01 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 6:01 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
Conservatives’ Laughable Effort to Blame Liberals for Trump
You guys, we were too mean to Mitt Romney, they just had to go full Trump. Seriously.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:02 AM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
You guys, we were too mean to Mitt Romney, they just had to go full Trump. Seriously.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:02 AM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
Bernie Sanders sure as hell has acted like a guy who can't take losing to a girl.
He's done real damage with his Revolution Media run? Guided? Subreddit and his campaign rhetoric about rigged elections and coded language about corporate whores and the rest. I know a lot of people like him for his message, but it frankly baffles me. There are progressives out there who don't appear to have a massive problem with women and who acknowledge intersectionality.
And he has done jack nor shit to try to undo the damage he did in the primaries. At this point the Dem strategy for the young BoBs who bought into all the most vile anti-Hillary bullshit seems to be "wait for them to grow out of it," and it seems like that's because without the guy who sold them all this crap in the first place, that's all they can do.
And that SUCKS. We need people showing up for local and state elections. We really do need a full court press to start to turn things around and make actual lives better.
And he's not doing a goddamn thing.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:03 AM on August 15, 2016 [41 favorites]
He's done real damage with his Revolution Media run? Guided? Subreddit and his campaign rhetoric about rigged elections and coded language about corporate whores and the rest. I know a lot of people like him for his message, but it frankly baffles me. There are progressives out there who don't appear to have a massive problem with women and who acknowledge intersectionality.
And he has done jack nor shit to try to undo the damage he did in the primaries. At this point the Dem strategy for the young BoBs who bought into all the most vile anti-Hillary bullshit seems to be "wait for them to grow out of it," and it seems like that's because without the guy who sold them all this crap in the first place, that's all they can do.
And that SUCKS. We need people showing up for local and state elections. We really do need a full court press to start to turn things around and make actual lives better.
And he's not doing a goddamn thing.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:03 AM on August 15, 2016 [41 favorites]
Well, you might not have filled one out recently but I have. I had to swear that I wasn't a member of either the Nazi Party or the Communist Party.
I had to attest that in my N-400 citizenship application. They screen you for Nazism.
If it wasn't for the fact that it was for my citizenship I'd say yes and when questioned I'd tell them "someone told me not to be dumb and be a smarty and so I joined the Nazi party".
posted by Talez at 6:04 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
I had to attest that in my N-400 citizenship application. They screen you for Nazism.
If it wasn't for the fact that it was for my citizenship I'd say yes and when questioned I'd tell them "someone told me not to be dumb and be a smarty and so I joined the Nazi party".
posted by Talez at 6:04 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Oh dear. I'm really having a laughing problem this morning.
Just read that Manafort in an interview with Jake Tapper talked about how a US Nato base in Turkey was attacked by terrorists. Didn't happen. The source for the story? Russian counter-intelligence.
Manafort tells @jaketappera a news story = "NATO base in Turkey attacked by terrorists". Where'd he get that? Oh:
I KNOW this is really serious it's just beyond absurd that it's actually happening.
posted by Jalliah at 6:04 AM on August 15, 2016 [28 favorites]
Just read that Manafort in an interview with Jake Tapper talked about how a US Nato base in Turkey was attacked by terrorists. Didn't happen. The source for the story? Russian counter-intelligence.
Manafort tells @jaketappera a news story = "NATO base in Turkey attacked by terrorists". Where'd he get that? Oh:
I KNOW this is really serious it's just beyond absurd that it's actually happening.
posted by Jalliah at 6:04 AM on August 15, 2016 [28 favorites]
You guys, we were too mean to Mitt Romney, they just had to go full Trump. Seriously.
It's like when they say "if taxes were lower people wouldn't cheat on them".
posted by Talez at 6:05 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's like when they say "if taxes were lower people wouldn't cheat on them".
posted by Talez at 6:05 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well, you might not have filled one out recently but I have. I had to swear that I wasn't a member of either the Nazi Party or the Communist Party.
That's not true -- you only had to promise that you weren't a member of the Nazi Party between 1933 and 1945. If you joined up after, that's totes cool.
I like the part where they ask if you committed genocide. Like, alone? I mean, minus a billion points for the goal, but 10 points for persistence.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:06 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
That's not true -- you only had to promise that you weren't a member of the Nazi Party between 1933 and 1945. If you joined up after, that's totes cool.
I like the part where they ask if you committed genocide. Like, alone? I mean, minus a billion points for the goal, but 10 points for persistence.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:06 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
I like the part where they ask if you committed genocide. Like, alone? I mean, minus a billion points for the goal, but 10 points for persistence.
It's not because they think you're stupid enough to answer yes but it's a lot easier to nab you for making false statements and rack up multiple multi-year sentences by lying on the form, lying to agents who show up to have a "friendly chat", lying to an immigration officer, etc.
posted by Talez at 6:12 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
It's not because they think you're stupid enough to answer yes but it's a lot easier to nab you for making false statements and rack up multiple multi-year sentences by lying on the form, lying to agents who show up to have a "friendly chat", lying to an immigration officer, etc.
posted by Talez at 6:12 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
I was asked about moral turpitude.
To this day, I do not know whether my morals are actually turpitudinous. I'm sure someone somewhere thinks so.
posted by Devonian at 6:17 AM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
To this day, I do not know whether my morals are actually turpitudinous. I'm sure someone somewhere thinks so.
posted by Devonian at 6:17 AM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
It's really rich for a form that admits people to the US to ask if they've committed genocide.
There's a t-shirt that's popular in Indian Country and college towns that shows Geronimo and his band standing at arms, below which various sardonic legends appear, my favorite of which is "Fighting Illegal Immigration Since 1492."
posted by spitbull at 6:18 AM on August 15, 2016 [26 favorites]
There's a t-shirt that's popular in Indian Country and college towns that shows Geronimo and his band standing at arms, below which various sardonic legends appear, my favorite of which is "Fighting Illegal Immigration Since 1492."
posted by spitbull at 6:18 AM on August 15, 2016 [26 favorites]
And he has done jack nor shit to try to undo the damage he did in the primaries.
It's not like he endorsed her or has been campaigning for her or anything...
posted by Going To Maine at 6:19 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
It's not like he endorsed her or has been campaigning for her or anything...
posted by Going To Maine at 6:19 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
It's not because they think you're stupid enough to answer yes
Ya entendi'.
It's really rich for a form that admits people to the US to ask if they've committed genocide.
The one that really gets me that way is the question about having ever overthrown the government of any nation, since some people filling out their n-400's helped overthrow the governments of Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya/etc
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:22 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Ya entendi'.
It's really rich for a form that admits people to the US to ask if they've committed genocide.
The one that really gets me that way is the question about having ever overthrown the government of any nation, since some people filling out their n-400's helped overthrow the governments of Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya/etc
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:22 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's not like he endorsed her or has been campaigning for her or anything...
posted by Going To Maine at 6:19 AM on August 15 [+] [!]
It's the campaigning for her that's at issue. I'd love to be wrong, but I haven't seen many Sanders rallies where he explicitly addresses all the lies he helped to propagate about Clinton. Or like...any rallies, at all.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:22 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 6:19 AM on August 15 [+] [!]
It's the campaigning for her that's at issue. I'd love to be wrong, but I haven't seen many Sanders rallies where he explicitly addresses all the lies he helped to propagate about Clinton. Or like...any rallies, at all.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:22 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Has he been campaigning for her?
posted by peacheater at 6:22 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 6:22 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
"tilted-doghead-confused" needs to become an actual word.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:26 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:26 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Uh, he dropped out of the race, why would there still be 'Sanders rallies'?
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:26 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:26 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Washington Post Aug 5: Trump adviser’s public comments, ties to Moscow stir unease in both parties. In this case not Manafort, but Carter Page.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:28 AM on August 15, 2016
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:28 AM on August 15, 2016
Not Sanders rallies, but speaking at Clinton campaign rallies as Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden are doing.
posted by peacheater at 6:31 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 6:31 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
The N-400 also asks if you have ever been "a habitual drunkard" and whether you've ever committed murder. Literally "check yes or no. If yes, explain." An immigration lawyer walked us through the process in a class I took, and they were like "Yeah, have people call our hotline, they really need to fill this out right the first time."
I don't understand people who want to add more barriers to entry. Immigration is complicated enough. People already wait 20+ years sometimes. Anyone who can make it through naturalization deserves to be an American, damn.
posted by blnkfrnk at 6:32 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't understand people who want to add more barriers to entry. Immigration is complicated enough. People already wait 20+ years sometimes. Anyone who can make it through naturalization deserves to be an American, damn.
posted by blnkfrnk at 6:32 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile in Ohio, they're serious about electoral malfeasance - they're strongly in favour
From a tale of considerable shenanigans:
Why do Ohio Republicans suddenly feel so strongly about limiting early voting hours in Democratic counties? Franklin County (Columbus) GOP Chair Doug Preisse gave a surprisingly blunt answer to the Columbus Dispatch on Sunday: “I guess I really actually feel we shouldn’t contort the voting process to accommodate the urban—read African-American—voter-turnout machine.” Preisse is not some rogue operative but the chairman of the Republican Party in Ohio’s second-largest county and a close adviser to Ohio Governor John Kasich.
posted by Devonian at 6:34 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
From a tale of considerable shenanigans:
Why do Ohio Republicans suddenly feel so strongly about limiting early voting hours in Democratic counties? Franklin County (Columbus) GOP Chair Doug Preisse gave a surprisingly blunt answer to the Columbus Dispatch on Sunday: “I guess I really actually feel we shouldn’t contort the voting process to accommodate the urban—read African-American—voter-turnout machine.” Preisse is not some rogue operative but the chairman of the Republican Party in Ohio’s second-largest county and a close adviser to Ohio Governor John Kasich.
posted by Devonian at 6:34 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
Uh, he dropped out of the race, why would there still be 'Sanders rallies'?
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:26 AM on August 15 [1 favorite +] [!]
C'mon, this is willfully obtuse.
He continued to campaign negatively after it became mathematically impossible for him to win, banging that "rigged" drum the whole time, and telling his supporters it wasn't over when it really, really was. He acted exactly like a man who invalidates a female competitor's accomplishments.
Since then he's given one reluctant endorsement, and hasn't done a damn thing else.
Again, I'd love to be wrong. But Sanders pumped a lot of bullshit into the well and he doesn't appear to have done anything to clean it up.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:34 AM on August 15, 2016 [37 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:26 AM on August 15 [1 favorite +] [!]
C'mon, this is willfully obtuse.
He continued to campaign negatively after it became mathematically impossible for him to win, banging that "rigged" drum the whole time, and telling his supporters it wasn't over when it really, really was. He acted exactly like a man who invalidates a female competitor's accomplishments.
Since then he's given one reluctant endorsement, and hasn't done a damn thing else.
Again, I'd love to be wrong. But Sanders pumped a lot of bullshit into the well and he doesn't appear to have done anything to clean it up.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:34 AM on August 15, 2016 [37 favorites]
I recently found my great grandfather's 1919 naturalization papers, which ask if he's a polygamist or an anarchist. He was arguably both but they let him in anyway
posted by theodolite at 6:34 AM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 6:34 AM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
Hillary endorsing Obama
and
Hillary campaigning with Obama
Classy
posted by mumimor at 6:35 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
and
Hillary campaigning with Obama
Classy
posted by mumimor at 6:35 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Uh, he dropped out of the race, why would there still be 'Sanders rallies'
Fair. Clinton rallies with only Sanders, not Clinton.
It's the campaigning for her that's at issue. I'd love to be wrong, but I haven't seen many Sanders rallies where he explicitly addresses all the lies he helped to propagate about Clinton. Or like...any rallies, at all.
Yeah, I jumped the gun on this - there's a big event coming on the 24th though. That said, if Sanders ever games his representation of Clinton around the notion that he lied about her, he'll surely destroy his own credibility.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:37 AM on August 15, 2016
Fair. Clinton rallies with only Sanders, not Clinton.
It's the campaigning for her that's at issue. I'd love to be wrong, but I haven't seen many Sanders rallies where he explicitly addresses all the lies he helped to propagate about Clinton. Or like...any rallies, at all.
Yeah, I jumped the gun on this - there's a big event coming on the 24th though. That said, if Sanders ever games his representation of Clinton around the notion that he lied about her, he'll surely destroy his own credibility.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:37 AM on August 15, 2016
Hillary Clinton is in charge of Hillary Clinton's campaign. At this point if she doesn't win its going to be because of some gigantic unforeseen fuck up on her part or Donald Trump suddenly becoming competent, not some irrelevant Bernie holdouts.
Stop following dumb media narratives because of dumb vendettas.
posted by Artw at 6:40 AM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
Stop following dumb media narratives because of dumb vendettas.
posted by Artw at 6:40 AM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
Manafort tells @jaketappera a news story = "NATO base in Turkey attacked by terrorists". Where'd he get that? Oh:
Today Trump is scheduled to give his foreign policy speech. From Team Trump is a disaster: It’s not just the candidate — his entire staff is ill-equipped for a presidential campaign
Today he is slated to give another stilted teleprompter speech on foreign policy which his campaign says Trump will use to “put blame for the rise of ISIS at feet of Obama and Clinton dating to 2009.” It’s clear that the 70 plus foreign policy bigwigs who signed a letter condemning Trump are not among his advisers and nobody really knows who they might be. Speculation is that Senator Jeff Sessions is a big influence along with the flamboyantly Strangelovian General Michael Flynn. Newt Gingrich and Rudolph Giuliani are fluttering around in the background.Should be ripe for plenty of snark.
Oh, and there’s his campaign manager Paul Manafort who knows a lot about foreign affairs, especially in the Ukraine.
"tilted-doghead-confused" needs to become an actual word.
This is my dog-tilt face.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:40 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile in Ohio...
FYI -- that article is from four years ago
posted by neroli at 6:41 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
FYI -- that article is from four years ago
posted by neroli at 6:41 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I doubt this story has legs, because all the alleged financial improprieties -- other than the secret cash ledger -- are complicated enough to to preclude summarizing, not least because of the weird public/private division in who Manafort was or wasn't working for, and when. Manafort's denials sound totally reasonable
Apparently there is more coming. Sounds like this could just be the start.
posted by Jalliah at 6:44 AM on August 15, 2016
Apparently there is more coming. Sounds like this could just be the start.
posted by Jalliah at 6:44 AM on August 15, 2016
A Lot of People Are Saying Trump’s New Data Team Is Shady
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump’s team has hired Cambridge Analytica, which claims to target voters based upon their psychological profiles. The National Review first broke the news, citing an unnamed Trump campaign official, and WIRED has confirmed the development. “In something so big, we want to bring in multiple data sources,” a Trump aide says, “to make sure we have the best opportunities to find the most persuadable voters and get people out to vote.”Cambridge Analytica sounds the perfect match-up to me: shady, lying, and does not work well with others. All they are missing is an orange glow.
As with all things involving Trump, this is not without controversy. Although Cambridge Analytica worked with Senator Ted Cruz and Ben Carson during the primaries, several Republican operatives tell WIRED they question the firm’s methodology, willingness to collaborate, and claims of involvement in major projects like Brexit. And the fact that Robert Mercer, a major GOP donor, is an owner of the company leaves some wondering if nepotism plays a role in any contracts the company lands.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
*grabs reality-making typewriter from The Whelk*
"And so, suddenly, immediately, permanently, all the folk ceased their bickering about Clinton vs Sanders. Amen."
*gives typewriter back*
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:47 AM on August 15, 2016 [51 favorites]
"And so, suddenly, immediately, permanently, all the folk ceased their bickering about Clinton vs Sanders. Amen."
*gives typewriter back*
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:47 AM on August 15, 2016 [51 favorites]
He continued to campaign negatively after it became mathematically impossible for him to win, banging that "rigged" drum the whole time, and telling his supporters it wasn't over when it really, really was.
We can agree that he certainly polluted the well of support, but Clinton held out nearly as long in 2008, with a similar set of pitches. And Sanders's play seems to have worked decently at dragging Clinton left (though not so much the party platform). He gave Clinton a strong endorsement at the convention, and is positioned to spend the Fall campaigning for her. I'm surprised that August has slid by, but there's plenty of campaign left.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:47 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
We can agree that he certainly polluted the well of support, but Clinton held out nearly as long in 2008, with a similar set of pitches. And Sanders's play seems to have worked decently at dragging Clinton left (though not so much the party platform). He gave Clinton a strong endorsement at the convention, and is positioned to spend the Fall campaigning for her. I'm surprised that August has slid by, but there's plenty of campaign left.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:47 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
I never believed in the reality-making typewriter.
posted by kingless at 6:50 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by kingless at 6:50 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
REALITY-MAKING TYPEWRITER / MONKEY'S PAW 2016
posted by murphy slaw at 6:54 AM on August 15, 2016 [38 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 6:54 AM on August 15, 2016 [38 favorites]
I'm surprised that August has slid by, but there's plenty of campaign left.
I would be happily surprised to see anything change, but I think at this point we have a pretty good gauge of the goals his behavior reveals. And they don't include getting Democratic majorities in the Senate or House.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:55 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
I would be happily surprised to see anything change, but I think at this point we have a pretty good gauge of the goals his behavior reveals. And they don't include getting Democratic majorities in the Senate or House.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:55 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
The horrible thing I've discovered is that anybody's typewriter can become the reality making typewriter at any moment, they just don't know about it til later.
posted by Artw at 6:55 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:55 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
*grabs reality-making typewriter from The Whelk*
"And so, suddenly, immediately, permanently, all the folk ceased their bickering about Clinton vs Sanders. Amen."
*gives typewriter back*
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:47 AM on August 15 [2 favorites +] [!]
I get this, but when we're talking about the problems with the youth vote and the consequences for the next four years, I kinda feel like the guy who is at least partially responsible for that is fair game.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:56 AM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
"And so, suddenly, immediately, permanently, all the folk ceased their bickering about Clinton vs Sanders. Amen."
*gives typewriter back*
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:47 AM on August 15 [2 favorites +] [!]
I get this, but when we're talking about the problems with the youth vote and the consequences for the next four years, I kinda feel like the guy who is at least partially responsible for that is fair game.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:56 AM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
I recently found my great grandfather's 1919 naturalization papers, which ask if he's a polygamist or an anarchist.
So many immigration rules reflect the specific xenophobic fears of a particular period, which get baked into the law for decades after.
Right now, US immigration is operating under Cold War / Red Scare rules, from the I visa for journalists to the "did you participate in WW2 genocide?" questions and a medical exam that's grounded in a 1950s sensibility about dirty crazy foreigners.
posted by holgate at 6:56 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
So many immigration rules reflect the specific xenophobic fears of a particular period, which get baked into the law for decades after.
Right now, US immigration is operating under Cold War / Red Scare rules, from the I visa for journalists to the "did you participate in WW2 genocide?" questions and a medical exam that's grounded in a 1950s sensibility about dirty crazy foreigners.
posted by holgate at 6:56 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
4. 'My work in Ukraine ceased following the country's parliamentary elections in October 2014.'
This, just by itself. "My work in "Ukraine ceased following the country's massive civil uprising that kicked my boss out on his ass, and also parliamentary elections in October 2014, wherein connections to my boss were the baby-eating of Ukrainian politics.
I've written accounts of my own past failed jobs, I know what this is.
posted by neonrev at 6:57 AM on August 15, 2016 [28 favorites]
This, just by itself. "My work in "Ukraine ceased following the country's massive civil uprising that kicked my boss out on his ass, and also parliamentary elections in October 2014, wherein connections to my boss were the baby-eating of Ukrainian politics.
I've written accounts of my own past failed jobs, I know what this is.
posted by neonrev at 6:57 AM on August 15, 2016 [28 favorites]
Ah. sorry about that. Still, I keep seeing Kaish's name pop up - some people are still running approval rating polls on him, for some reason - so I guess it's good to be reminded of his history...
posted by Devonian at 6:59 AM on August 15, 2016
posted by Devonian at 6:59 AM on August 15, 2016
I get this, but when we're talking about the problems with the youth vote and the consequences for the next four years, I kinda feel like the guy who is at least partially responsible for that is fair game.
I know we love the circular firing squad but just this once can we focus on the crypto-fascist human cheeto demagogue that is in danger of coming close to the White House?
posted by Talez at 7:00 AM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
I know we love the circular firing squad but just this once can we focus on the crypto-fascist human cheeto demagogue that is in danger of coming close to the White House?
posted by Talez at 7:00 AM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
Mod note: Folks, there probably isn't a good place to re-re-re-re-litigate the whole Sanders-didn't-drop-out-yeah-but-Hillary etc. fight, but the tail-end of a 3,000+ thread is definitely not that place. The old threads are still there to re-read.
posted by taz (staff) at 7:01 AM on August 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 7:01 AM on August 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
a medical exam that's grounded in a 1950s sensibility about dirty crazy foreigners.
Hence I came into immigration with a rolled up X-Ray of my chest, tried to figure out who to give it to and still have the thing somewhere.
Tuberculosis IS coming back into fashion, though.
posted by Artw at 7:03 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Hence I came into immigration with a rolled up X-Ray of my chest, tried to figure out who to give it to and still have the thing somewhere.
Tuberculosis IS coming back into fashion, though.
posted by Artw at 7:03 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Manafort worked for Ford against Reagan in 1976. [real] Pass it on to your older relatives who love Reagan.
posted by puddledork at 7:03 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by puddledork at 7:03 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
At this point I fully expect someone to find pictures of Manafort at a Nazi rally, standing just behind the Fuhrer, looking exactly the same as he does now.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:06 AM on August 15, 2016 [50 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 7:06 AM on August 15, 2016 [50 favorites]
I like the part where they ask if you committed genocide.
I was asked about moral turpitude.
Wait, are we all joining Scientology this week?
posted by thelonius at 7:06 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I was asked about moral turpitude.
Wait, are we all joining Scientology this week?
posted by thelonius at 7:06 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I wonder if Paul Manafort is a heavy smoker?
posted by notyou at 7:07 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by notyou at 7:07 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
At the very least there's a portrait of Manafort on a wall somewhere in Transylvania.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:13 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 7:13 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Samantha Fields: What hast thou wrought? Christians and Trump"
posted by palindromic at 7:14 AM on August 15, 2016 [26 favorites]
How can Christians be voting for him?Another entry in the ever-expanding genre of Evangelical anti-Trump essays.
I’ve already explained why I think Christians shouldn’t be voting for Trump, but now I’d like to take a stab at why Christians– namely white evangelicals– are supporting him in even greater numbers than they supported Romney. There’s been multitudes of ink spilled attempting to answer this, and the obvious answer is white supremacy. Evangelicals exist as a voting bloc because of racism. Trump with all of his flagrant racism is calling to one of the most basic motivations of the evangelical movement, and we ignore this to our detriment. Another obvious answer is misogyny. He embodies everything wrong with masculinity in American culture– braggadocio, chauvinism, narcissism, anger, insecurity– but it’s appealing to those among us who see powerful women and feminism as an innate threat to their manhood or their sense of social order.
The internet is filled to the brim with articles covering all those reasons, as well as plenty of articles pointing out all the ways that Trump’s actions, history, and proposed policies are antithetical to everything Christians have been saying they expect in a presidential candidate for decades. Like having family values. Or being a Christian. So, a lot of my friends are confused: how is this possible?
posted by palindromic at 7:14 AM on August 15, 2016 [26 favorites]
His work didn't end after the massive civil uprising; or if it did, temporarily, he got a new job in the same place, with substantially the same people, pretty quickly. It only ended (he says) after the parliamentary elections, not after the civil unrest.
I guess I didn't word that correctly, I was just pointing out the missing bits of the story of his job. He just left out the part where the party and person he worked for experienced an uprising, and that the 2014 parliamentary elections served the role of filling the seats of a number of members of the party he worked for after they fled during the uprising, and he was probably desperately re-branding some of the hangers on.
posted by neonrev at 7:16 AM on August 15, 2016
I guess I didn't word that correctly, I was just pointing out the missing bits of the story of his job. He just left out the part where the party and person he worked for experienced an uprising, and that the 2014 parliamentary elections served the role of filling the seats of a number of members of the party he worked for after they fled during the uprising, and he was probably desperately re-branding some of the hangers on.
posted by neonrev at 7:16 AM on August 15, 2016
And here's one of the Evangelical pro-Trump things.
posted by gaspode at 7:17 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Donald Trump is more righteous than you think. He wants to protect you from Islamic zealots. He wants to protect your right to defend your families with firearms. He even wants to exempt your pulpits from IRS tyranny. He wants to end the death tax, so you can pass on your farms and your family business to your children. He wants to lower your taxes. He wants to protect the lives of unborn children and appoint Constitutional judges.So, yep.
posted by gaspode at 7:17 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
pyramid termite: there's something very bizzarro world about growing up hearing right wing extremists claiming that democrats and liberals are russian/commie agents and then finding out that the republican candidate of 2016 is suspiciously cozy with the russian power structure
i mean, what the hell?
There would be something bizzarro world about this if Russia was still Communist Russia, but it hasn't been for more than two decades.
Really, this alignment seems like like the most honest for Donnie. Profiteering oligarchs seem like his kind of people.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:20 AM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
i mean, what the hell?
There would be something bizzarro world about this if Russia was still Communist Russia, but it hasn't been for more than two decades.
Really, this alignment seems like like the most honest for Donnie. Profiteering oligarchs seem like his kind of people.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:20 AM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
Heh, a few minutes ago the news ticker on MSNBC said that Biden is going to join Clinton "on the campaign trial" today.
posted by XMLicious at 7:24 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by XMLicious at 7:24 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Heh, a few minutes ago the news ticker on MSNBC said that Biden is going to join Clinton "on the campaign trial" today.
MSNBC trying desperately to keep their Trump press credentials.
posted by Talez at 7:27 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
MSNBC trying desperately to keep their Trump press credentials.
posted by Talez at 7:27 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
From the Samantha Fields essay:
The most recent Trumpcast had an intriguing premise to me (someone who is surrounded and takes great interest in Southern Evangelicals) that the decline of White Christian America has led current day Evangelicals scrambling to retain power. Donald Trump announced very early on in his campaign that when he is president everyone will be saying "Merry Christmas." Also he will "Make America Great Again" and get rid of the Johnson Amendment. All of these these dogwhistles refer to the 50's America when Southern White Evangelicals reined supreme and had their greatest moment of power. So when Donald Trump tells them that everyone in America will say "Merry Christmas" that is a powerfully nostalgic argument to make him President.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:27 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
This is why Trump is succeeding so well among evangelical voters. He’s an abuser, but now he’s converted to their nationalistic, dominionist, theocratic, white supremacist and misogynistic faith, and through that has been Redeemed.
The most recent Trumpcast had an intriguing premise to me (someone who is surrounded and takes great interest in Southern Evangelicals) that the decline of White Christian America has led current day Evangelicals scrambling to retain power. Donald Trump announced very early on in his campaign that when he is president everyone will be saying "Merry Christmas." Also he will "Make America Great Again" and get rid of the Johnson Amendment. All of these these dogwhistles refer to the 50's America when Southern White Evangelicals reined supreme and had their greatest moment of power. So when Donald Trump tells them that everyone in America will say "Merry Christmas" that is a powerfully nostalgic argument to make him President.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:27 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Donald Trump is more righteous than you think. He wants to protect you from Islamic zealots. He wants to protect your right to defend your families with firearms. He even wants to exempt your pulpits from IRS tyranny. He wants to end the death tax, so you can pass on your farms and your family business to your children. He wants to lower your taxes. He wants to protect the lives of unborn children and appoint Constitutional judges.
I am not convinced that this person actually knows who Jesus Christ was or what he did and said.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:31 AM on August 15, 2016 [76 favorites]
I am not convinced that this person actually knows who Jesus Christ was or what he did and said.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:31 AM on August 15, 2016 [76 favorites]
"Righteousness" in the context of evangelical Christianity is such a toxic concept. It's a very effective way of re-branding inherently unChristian concepts as absolutely essential to one's in-group status. Disgusting.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:32 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:32 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
Donald Trump is more righteous than you think. He wants to protect you from Islamic zealots. He wants to protect your right to defend your families with firearms. He even wants to exempt your pulpits from IRS tyranny. He wants to end the death tax, so you can pass on your farms and your family business to your children. He wants to lower your taxes. He wants to protect the lives of unborn children and appoint Constitutional judges.
I am not convinced that this person actually knows who Jesus Christ was or what he did and said.
you missed the bits in the Bible about the IRS and guns?
posted by gaspode at 7:32 AM on August 15, 2016 [25 favorites]
I am not convinced that this person actually knows who Jesus Christ was or what he did and said.
you missed the bits in the Bible about the IRS and guns?
posted by gaspode at 7:32 AM on August 15, 2016 [25 favorites]
I've been following these threads and getting more and more outraged, so I decided to do something. I have a Clinton volunteer training conference call tonight. I have no idea what to expect but I am excited!
posted by Biblio at 7:33 AM on August 15, 2016 [30 favorites]
posted by Biblio at 7:33 AM on August 15, 2016 [30 favorites]
Close call, but it looks like Clinton is going to hang on to New York.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:35 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:35 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
I am not convinced that this person actually knows who Jesus Christ was or what he did and said.
I don't know, I definitely think he sounds like a follower of a seditious Iron Age separatist cult leader.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:36 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I don't know, I definitely think he sounds like a follower of a seditious Iron Age separatist cult leader.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:36 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Fred Clark: If abortion is murder then you shouldn't be a single-issue voter against it:
These denunciations are, as I’ve said before, admissions that none of this talk about murder and baby-killing Holocausts was ever meant to be taken seriously. It’s transparent hypocrisy, but it still comes as a great relief to the rest of us. And we do not push the point, or highlight that hypocrisy in the moment, because it seems a dangerous thing to point out that such extreme violence is, in fact, a logical and necessary moral conclusion from the purported premise loudly endorsed and promoted by so many of our neighbors. It’s far better to live alongside millions of neighbors duplicitously pretending to follow that premise and using it as a pretext for reflexive single-issue partisanship than it would be to live alongside such neighbors who behaved consistently with its more severe implications.posted by palindromic at 7:45 AM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
I appreciate that what I’m arguing here isn’t something my anti-abortion neighbors will enjoy hearing. I seem to be accusing them of a kind of delusional hypocrisy — of not really believing the premise that they say provides the entire basis for their identity and their redefined faith itself as reliably partisan single-issue voters (yea, even to the point of Donald Trump). But this is the best possible conclusion available to me.
Washington Post just today published White Christian America is dying which is an interview with Robert P. Jones whose new book in entitled “The End of White Christian America,” (the same person interviewed on the Trumpcast I just linked to.)
I first identified the roots of this unlikely alliance back in a February column for the Atlantic, just after Trump won the GOP South Carolina primary, where nearly 7 in 10 voters were white evangelical Protestants. Trump’s appeal to evangelicals was not that he was one of them but that he would “restore power to the Christian churches” if he were elected president. This explicit promise, along with his anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim rhetoric, signaled to white evangelical voters that when he crowed about “Making America Great Again,” he meant turning back the clock to a time when conservative white Christians held more influence in the culture. Trump has essentially converted these self-described “values voters” into “nostalgia voters.”posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:57 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
The surprising ascendancy of Trump in the Republican primary, with his strategy of making strong appeals to a white Christian base, is also shaping up to be a test of a key argument I make in the book — that Mitt Romney’s 2012 campaign was the last campaign that could plausibly follow a “white Christian strategy” to the White House. So it looks like we’ll see whether I called that one too early or not! But even if Trump somehow manages to pull off a win by bringing out unprecedented numbers of white Christian voters, the patterns in the electorate are clear. Every four years, there is a shrinking pool of white Christian voters; if current trends continue, 2024 will be the first year white Christians will not make up a majority of voters nationwide.
The Good Men Project: Jesus and Donald Trump
If you’re going to support Trump as a Christian, perhaps you should send him a bible. He doesn’t seem to be familiar with any of it.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:02 AM on August 15, 2016 [37 favorites]
But overall, if you’re going to support Trump, particularly over Clinton, a lifelong Methodist who taught Sunday School and participated in bi-partisan bible study sessions and prayer circles during her time in Washington, and her running mate, Tim Kaine, a committed Catholic, it had better be for reasons other than Christian faith.
salix: The final insult: Donald Trump is a bore (WaPo)
You could practically write a whole book about what happened to me.
Donnie: "Mikey Pence and I were in the presidential semifinals, the very semifinals... ...of the presidential election in the United States. And this ghastly thing happened. We were both playing way over our heads and the score was 42-37. I had this terrific series of tweets ...and I stepped away from my phone to eat my blackened steak. And people found out that Manafort was working with Pro-Russians in Ukraine. The media just squashed it to bits. And then Mikey and I ran to the foyer to hold a press conference to clean up the whole thing. And the foyer was locked. Imagine? We had to call the whole thing off. Well, it was ghastly. Well, it was just ghastly."
posted by filthy light thief at 8:05 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
You could practically write a whole book about what happened to me.
Donnie: "Mikey Pence and I were in the presidential semifinals, the very semifinals... ...of the presidential election in the United States. And this ghastly thing happened. We were both playing way over our heads and the score was 42-37. I had this terrific series of tweets ...and I stepped away from my phone to eat my blackened steak. And people found out that Manafort was working with Pro-Russians in Ukraine. The media just squashed it to bits. And then Mikey and I ran to the foyer to hold a press conference to clean up the whole thing. And the foyer was locked. Imagine? We had to call the whole thing off. Well, it was ghastly. Well, it was just ghastly."
posted by filthy light thief at 8:05 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
("I've just been to the most awful party... where they served nothing but daiquiris made with honey.")
posted by filthy light thief at 8:06 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by filthy light thief at 8:06 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
The Washington Times: Donald Trump’s push to repeal Johnson Amendment buoys religious freedom advocates
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:08 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
While calling him a flawed messenger, evangelical leaders have rallied behind Donald Trump, saying he has struck a chord with his vow to repeal a decades-old prohibition on tax-exempt organizations such as churches being able to endorse political candidates.There are numerous essays and reports on Trump's allure to White Evangelicals just in the past 24 hours alone. It is both fascinating and baffling to see these self-described moral leaders embrace someone who is probably the most amoral Presidential candidate ever to run.
Mr. Trump’s push to repeal the 1950s-era provision named after Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson has proved to be a powerful lure. The Republican presidential nominee allowed it to be part of the party’s platform, mentioned it in his nomination acceptance speech last month and took the case directly to Christian leaders last week in Orlando, Florida.
“If I get elected president, one of the early things, one of the absolute first things I’m going to do is work on totally knocking out the Johnson Amendment,” Mr. Trump told the leaders.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:08 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
Filthy light thief wins all of the internets with the Auntie Mame reference.
(I think books are awfully decorative.)
posted by Sophie1 at 8:11 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
(I think books are awfully decorative.)
posted by Sophie1 at 8:11 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
@JoePerticone: Trump campaign spokeswoman Katrina Pierson says reporters "literally beat Trump supporters"
You keep using that word, etc...
posted by zombieflanders at 8:11 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
You keep using that word, etc...
posted by zombieflanders at 8:11 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Also, very dangerous, because if Trump supporters believe that reporters are actually physically beating other supporters, they'll feel like they're justified in attacking them back.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:13 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 8:13 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
For what it's worth, Sanders did just have an op-ed in the LA Times about Hillary on August 5th, and his kick off for his new "Our Revolution" thing is on August 25th, where he says he'll be pushing for a progressive agenda and helping like minded candidates get elected, so I wouldn't write him off as not helping Clinton get elected yet.
posted by gusottertrout at 8:14 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by gusottertrout at 8:14 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
The Trump campaign continues to legitimize violence by its supporters.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:16 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:16 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
>It is both fascinating and baffling to see these self-described moral leaders embrace someone who is probably the most amoral Presidential candidate ever to run.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy
Cognitive dissonance is a helluva drug.
posted by the wine-dark sea at 8:18 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy
Cognitive dissonance is a helluva drug.
posted by the wine-dark sea at 8:18 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump campaign spokeswoman Katrina Pierson says reporters "literally beat Trump supporters"
"Literally" is the perfect word for the Trump campaign to deploy since it either means literally OR figuratively and no one can really tell what it means from moment to moment.
posted by puddledork at 8:19 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
"Literally" is the perfect word for the Trump campaign to deploy since it either means literally OR figuratively and no one can really tell what it means from moment to moment.
posted by puddledork at 8:19 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
For those of you wanting a lighter note- I've enjoyed Peter Serafinowicz redubbing Trump's words. (YT sound required).
posted by Gratishades at 8:20 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Gratishades at 8:20 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Trump campaign spokeswoman Katrina Pierson says reporters "literally beat Trump supporters"
I strongly disagree with this framing. The full quote is, "...they are tired of seeing left wing reporters literally beat Trump supporters into submission, into supporting policies they don't agree with." It's obvious that this has nothing to do with physical violence, but is just a hyperbolic representation of arguments made in articles and editorials. It's the standard "liberal media bias" trope, and as we should all be familiar with by now, the word "literally" does not literally mean "literally" anymore, especially for young people like Katrina Pierson. This is a highly disingenuous quotemine and we should not be giving it any support.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 8:25 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
I strongly disagree with this framing. The full quote is, "...they are tired of seeing left wing reporters literally beat Trump supporters into submission, into supporting policies they don't agree with." It's obvious that this has nothing to do with physical violence, but is just a hyperbolic representation of arguments made in articles and editorials. It's the standard "liberal media bias" trope, and as we should all be familiar with by now, the word "literally" does not literally mean "literally" anymore, especially for young people like Katrina Pierson. This is a highly disingenuous quotemine and we should not be giving it any support.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 8:25 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Honestly I've been linked those Serafinowicz videos a few times but they're really gross "ha ha gay voice amirite?" stuff.
posted by yellowbinder at 8:25 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by yellowbinder at 8:25 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
They're not using 'literally' literally, to mean literally; they're using 'literally' figuratively, to mean figuratively.
posted by painquale at 8:27 AM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by painquale at 8:27 AM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
I haven't seen this new ad from the Clinton campaign posted yet: What's Donald Trump Hiding in his Tax Returns?
It features a bunch of Republicans (Romney, McConnell, Cruz, and others) saying that their candidate should release his returns, while questioning his purported wealth and probable ties to Russia oligarchs. McConnell's quote cracks me up for some reason.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:29 AM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
It features a bunch of Republicans (Romney, McConnell, Cruz, and others) saying that their candidate should release his returns, while questioning his purported wealth and probable ties to Russia oligarchs. McConnell's quote cracks me up for some reason.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:29 AM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
"Literally" is the perfect word for the Trump campaign to deploy since it either means literally OR figuratively and no one can really tell what it means from moment to moment.
The whole campaign is comprised of people who can't tell the difference, which really leaves me nonplussed.
posted by thelonius at 8:29 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
The whole campaign is comprised of people who can't tell the difference, which really leaves me nonplussed.
posted by thelonius at 8:29 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
Bernie's allowed a break.
If this were a normal campaign, both candidates would be doing relatively low-key events with a focus on daily messaging and good local press and getting their field operations running (it's still the Olympics, remember) before stepping up a gear in September. The Clinton campaign isn't sending out anyone other than Clinton and Kaine right now.
(There's a fundraiser with HRC & Cher in Provincetown, MA this coming Sunday. Cher! Emoji optional.)
posted by holgate at 8:30 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
If this were a normal campaign, both candidates would be doing relatively low-key events with a focus on daily messaging and good local press and getting their field operations running (it's still the Olympics, remember) before stepping up a gear in September. The Clinton campaign isn't sending out anyone other than Clinton and Kaine right now.
(There's a fundraiser with HRC & Cher in Provincetown, MA this coming Sunday. Cher! Emoji optional.)
posted by holgate at 8:30 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
I recently found my great grandfather's 1919 naturalization papers, which ask if he's a polygamist or an anarchist. He was arguably both but they let him in anyway.
That's because it's an XOR.
posted by The Bellman at 8:31 AM on August 15, 2016 [24 favorites]
That's because it's an XOR.
posted by The Bellman at 8:31 AM on August 15, 2016 [24 favorites]
When have left wing reporters metaphorically beat Trump supporters into supporting policies they don't agree with? The whole thing is nonsense word salad either way.
posted by Artw at 8:31 AM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:31 AM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
Honestly I've been linked those Serafinowicz videos a few times but they're really gross "ha ha gay voice amirite?" stuff.
I'm with you. He really should have gone Darth Maul.
posted by mochapickle at 8:33 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm with you. He really should have gone Darth Maul.
posted by mochapickle at 8:33 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
yellowbinder- you are right upon reflection. I was focussing on what I imagined Trump's reaction to it . My bad.
posted by Gratishades at 8:36 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Gratishades at 8:36 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
especially for young people like Katrina Pierson.
What? She's 40 years old.
posted by cashman at 8:36 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
What? She's 40 years old.
posted by cashman at 8:36 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
the word "literally" does not literally mean "literally" anymore, especially for young people like Katrina Pierson.
She's over 40. I'm younger than that and I find people using "literally" to mean "figuratively" to be painfully stupid.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 8:39 AM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
She's over 40. I'm younger than that and I find people using "literally" to mean "figuratively" to be painfully stupid.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 8:39 AM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
What? She's 40 years old.
My mistake. Well... can ya blame me? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by J.K. Seazer at 8:40 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
My mistake. Well... can ya blame me? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by J.K. Seazer at 8:40 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
When have left wing reporters metaphorically beat Trump supporters into supporting policies they don't agree with? The whole thing is nonsense word salad either way.
It doesn't matter if the claim is true or not.
It's been strict conservative doctrine pretty much St. Ronnie's ascension that it's perfectly proper to lie out your ass about anything. The followers will accept the lie as true doctrine and spread it throughout the land.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:40 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
It doesn't matter if the claim is true or not.
It's been strict conservative doctrine pretty much St. Ronnie's ascension that it's perfectly proper to lie out your ass about anything. The followers will accept the lie as true doctrine and spread it throughout the land.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:40 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
especially for young people like Katrina Pierson.
What? She's 40 years old.
Whoa, I thought she was about 25. I still had an eensy bit of...not sympathy, but benefit of the doubt, I guess? for her because I figured she was young and not experienced in this arena.
posted by sallybrown at 8:41 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
What? She's 40 years old.
Whoa, I thought she was about 25. I still had an eensy bit of...not sympathy, but benefit of the doubt, I guess? for her because I figured she was young and not experienced in this arena.
posted by sallybrown at 8:41 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Well there is a kind of linguistic drift thing where words lose their surface meaning and become kind of an intensifier ("very unique"), so I guess that is what has happened to "literally". If it were a horse, I'd shoot it.
posted by thelonius at 8:42 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 8:42 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I wonder what Clinton and her team have planned for how to deal with another obstructionist Congress. It's such a likely outcome, surely they have some kind of strategy on deck.
We have to turn the Senate. It is imperative.
There are about 1,000 presidential appointments that must be approved by the senate - so controlling the senate is vital in making progress. In addition to the obvious biggies -- Supreme Court Justices and the Cabinet, plus undersecretaries, etc there are about 150 ambassadors, several hundred heads of executive (eg CIA, NASA) and regulatory agencies (eg EPA, OSHA, FAA); Federal judges; US Attorneys and US Marshalls . So if we have the Senate, a lot of progress can get made. It will also put more pressure on the House.
Here are some of the most promising Senate races:
IL Mark Kirk (r) v. Tammy Duckworth (D) Duckworth +7
NH Kelly Ayotte (R) v Maggie Hassan (D) Hassan +10
NC Richard Burr R) v Deborah Ross (D) Ross +2
PA Pat Toomey (R) v Kate McGinty (D) McGinty +2 to 4
WI Ron Johnson (R) v Russ Feingold (D) Feingold +11
And a few others that bear watching - there may be others I am missing.
FL Marco Rubio (R) v Patrick Murphy (D)
IA Chuck Grassley (R) Patty Judge (D)
OH Rob Portman (R) v Ted Strickland (D)
posted by madamjujujive at 8:42 AM on August 15, 2016 [29 favorites]
Twain, Fitzgerald, and Joyce all used literally to mean figuratively.
posted by Bookhouse at 8:44 AM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Bookhouse at 8:44 AM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
Probably the best bet I can think of to retake the house and Senate is to get a friendly supreme court and get some rulings against gerrymandering in place.
posted by Mitrovarr at 8:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Mitrovarr at 8:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
> Twain, Fitzgerald, and Joyce all used literally to mean figuratively.
Yes but did Twain, Fitzgerald, or Joyce get a cheap frisson of pleasure from looking down on other people for using language that differs from prescriptive norms? No they did not! And that is why we are better than all three of them.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:47 AM on August 15, 2016 [37 favorites]
Yes but did Twain, Fitzgerald, or Joyce get a cheap frisson of pleasure from looking down on other people for using language that differs from prescriptive norms? No they did not! And that is why we are better than all three of them.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:47 AM on August 15, 2016 [37 favorites]
someone hasn't read the literary sins of james fenimore cooper.
posted by The Gaffer at 8:50 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by The Gaffer at 8:50 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
The hyperbolic and figurative use of 'literally', as noted above, is not new. James Joyce used 'literally' hyperbolically literally over 100 years ago in the his story The Dead. Its literally in the first sentence. This prescriptivist revisionism, in which 'young people are misusing English', literally drives me up the walls whenever I see this come up.
posted by airish at 8:51 AM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by airish at 8:51 AM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
also, and i'm going out on a limb here, but i would prefer that major political candidates communicated somewhat more approachably than james joyce.
posted by The Gaffer at 8:51 AM on August 15, 2016 [45 favorites]
posted by The Gaffer at 8:51 AM on August 15, 2016 [45 favorites]
> It is both fascinating and baffling to see these self-described moral leaders embrace someone who is probably the most amoral Presidential candidate ever to run.
Most "moral leaders" are more interested in power and control than they are morality.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:52 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Most "moral leaders" are more interested in power and control than they are morality.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:52 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Probably the best bet I can think of to retake the house and Senate is to get a friendly supreme court and get some rulings against gerrymandering in place.
It would take a pretty interesting view of the Constitution to stop gerrymandering in the Senate.
posted by one_bean at 8:52 AM on August 15, 2016 [18 favorites]
It would take a pretty interesting view of the Constitution to stop gerrymandering in the Senate.
posted by one_bean at 8:52 AM on August 15, 2016 [18 favorites]
Yes but did Twain, Fitzgerald, or Joyce get a cheap frisson of pleasure from looking down on other people for using language that differs from prescriptive norms?
I always had the sense that Twain was powered by the joy of looking down on others. He just did it with great wit.
posted by phearlez at 8:53 AM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
I always had the sense that Twain was powered by the joy of looking down on others. He just did it with great wit.
posted by phearlez at 8:53 AM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
Maybe "literally" means "sarcastically" to anyone in the Trump campaign?
posted by rtha at 8:53 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by rtha at 8:53 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
> also, and i'm going out on a limb here, but i would prefer that major political candidates communicated somewhat more approachably than james joyce.
I disagree. Moreover, I think America is ready for a candidate who is not just into butt stuff, but who is willing to write at length and in detail about the precise nature of the butt stuff that they're into and how much they enjoy it. Joyce 2016!
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:54 AM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
I disagree. Moreover, I think America is ready for a candidate who is not just into butt stuff, but who is willing to write at length and in detail about the precise nature of the butt stuff that they're into and how much they enjoy it. Joyce 2016!
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:54 AM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
Can someone point me in the direction of a site or person that can explain what the hell the right wing crap about the Clinton Foundation is all about? (I know it's bogus). Actually a general site(s) or person that likes to explain RW talking points du jour would be great. My google fu is failing and I'm getting irked at sorting through the crap while trying to find some good places.
posted by Jalliah at 8:54 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Jalliah at 8:54 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Probably the best bet I can think of to retake the house and Senate is to get a friendly supreme court and get some rulings against gerrymandering in place.
It would take a pretty interesting view of the Constitution to stop gerrymandering in the Senate.
and of three dimensional space.
posted by phearlez at 8:54 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
It would take a pretty interesting view of the Constitution to stop gerrymandering in the Senate.
and of three dimensional space.
posted by phearlez at 8:54 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Probably the best bet I can think of to retake the house and Senate is to get a friendly supreme court and get some rulings against gerrymandering in place.
That might be harder than it sounds even with control of the right areas - with urban areas going strongly Democratic there's almost "natural gerrymandering" going on. Which doesn't mean the intentional gerrymandering is other than ridiculous.
posted by Francis at 8:55 AM on August 15, 2016
That might be harder than it sounds even with control of the right areas - with urban areas going strongly Democratic there's almost "natural gerrymandering" going on. Which doesn't mean the intentional gerrymandering is other than ridiculous.
posted by Francis at 8:55 AM on August 15, 2016
It would take a pretty interesting view of the Constitution to stop gerrymandering in the Senate.
I was thinking it would be a long term effect of undermining the Republican control of the house and state legislatures by reducing voter suppression, etc.
posted by Mitrovarr at 8:55 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I was thinking it would be a long term effect of undermining the Republican control of the house and state legislatures by reducing voter suppression, etc.
posted by Mitrovarr at 8:55 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
The New Yorker just put out a fascinating long piece about Ivanka and her husband. The Trump-Kushner family really does seem like a ménage of minor medieval kings than a modern family. It's a weirdly affecting story.
Misogynists often deify one woman in their lives. Have you ever been someone's goddess? I have. I do not recommend it. Shift your weight a little and the pedestal will topple, and you will smash to pieces. Ivanka must have spent her whole life learning to manage her father, watching what happened to the women who failed at it.
Like I said, I wondered what it would be like to be Ivanka when I was little, at a time when I thought my dad's goal for my life was to embarrass me. I have, of course, long realized that I actually have the best of all possible dads, but this reminds me yet again.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:57 AM on August 15, 2016 [35 favorites]
Misogynists often deify one woman in their lives. Have you ever been someone's goddess? I have. I do not recommend it. Shift your weight a little and the pedestal will topple, and you will smash to pieces. Ivanka must have spent her whole life learning to manage her father, watching what happened to the women who failed at it.
Like I said, I wondered what it would be like to be Ivanka when I was little, at a time when I thought my dad's goal for my life was to embarrass me. I have, of course, long realized that I actually have the best of all possible dads, but this reminds me yet again.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:57 AM on August 15, 2016 [35 favorites]
Joyce 2016! He could pick your fart out of a roomful of farting women.
posted by dis_integration at 8:57 AM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 8:57 AM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
Yes but did Twain, Fitzgerald, or Joyce get a cheap frisson of pleasure from looking down on other people for using language that differs from prescriptive norms?
Well, critics have argued that Joyce's use of "literally" to mean "figuratively" in that first sentence of "The Dead" is meant to foreshadow Gabriel's pomposity, so, yes, he probably did.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:59 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Well, critics have argued that Joyce's use of "literally" to mean "figuratively" in that first sentence of "The Dead" is meant to foreshadow Gabriel's pomposity, so, yes, he probably did.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:59 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
> "... there may be others I am missing."
In addition to the ones you mentioned, all the following are also quite close as of the most recent polls, some within a percentage point or so:
NV Joe Heck (R) vs. Catherine Cortez-Masto (D)
AZ John McCain (R) vs. Ann Kirkpatrick (D)
MO Roy Blunt (R) vs. Jason Kander (D)
There's also Indiana -- Dan Coats (R) vs. Evan Bayh (D) -- which doesn't appear to have been polled yet. And Alaska could apparently get weird because of the presence of Margaret Stock as an independent candidate.
posted by kyrademon at 9:01 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
In addition to the ones you mentioned, all the following are also quite close as of the most recent polls, some within a percentage point or so:
NV Joe Heck (R) vs. Catherine Cortez-Masto (D)
AZ John McCain (R) vs. Ann Kirkpatrick (D)
MO Roy Blunt (R) vs. Jason Kander (D)
There's also Indiana -- Dan Coats (R) vs. Evan Bayh (D) -- which doesn't appear to have been polled yet. And Alaska could apparently get weird because of the presence of Margaret Stock as an independent candidate.
posted by kyrademon at 9:01 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
Even lies should actually collapse down to meaning something, dammit!
posted by Artw at 9:02 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:02 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
@RealJamesJoyce2016: Some say a man of genius makes no mistakes. His errors are volitional. Sad!
posted by spitbull at 9:02 AM on August 15, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 9:02 AM on August 15, 2016 [26 favorites]
Since we're interrogating language now*, I agree that the complaint about literally is in this instance inappropriate, but there's a close issue with the Trump campaign and Trump in particular. Look at how he describes himself as sarcastic when he's being hyperbolic and how most of his sentences are unparseable - Trump's truest rhetorical gift is speaking in horrid little tone poems, so that he doesn't have multiple statements in a row or explicitly make logical connections that he can be caught out on. It's like a next generation dog whistle, where he doesn't care if those outside the desired audience know what he's doing - he cares that they can't litigate it, can't pin it down in a way that's resistant to hostile interpretation. This pattern will be familiar to folks who have lived with certain varieties of shitty people.
*also at all other times no matter what
posted by The Gaffer at 9:04 AM on August 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
*also at all other times no matter what
posted by The Gaffer at 9:04 AM on August 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
Trump claims that Obama is the founder of ISIS because of his withdrawal of troops from Iraq.
First note that the scheduled withdrawal from Iraq was negotiated by Bush and formalized when Bush signed the U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement in 2008 before Obama took office.
Here is what Trump was saying back then:
In 2007 : “You know how they get out? They get out,” Trump said to CNN’s Wolf Blitzer. “That’s how they get out. Declare victory and leave, because I’ll tell you, this country is just going to get further bogged down. They’re in a civil war over there, Wolf. There’s nothing that we’re going to be able to do with a civil war. They are in a major civil war.”
About McCain who he backed in 2008: “I wish he would promise to get us out of Iraq faster,” said Trump. “I am not in love with that aspect of what he represents.”
To Howard Stern: “Anybody who stays in Iraq — look at what happened to McCain — he want to show how tough he is, he’s sunk, immediately, and that’s with the Republicans.”
To GQ: “First, I’d get out of Iraq right now.”
As late as 2011: Trump began saying the U.S. should take Iraq’s oil before withdrawing. Trump also told CNN’s Piers Morgan in February of that year he would get troops in Iraq “out real fast.”
posted by JackFlash at 9:04 AM on August 15, 2016 [25 favorites]
First note that the scheduled withdrawal from Iraq was negotiated by Bush and formalized when Bush signed the U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement in 2008 before Obama took office.
Here is what Trump was saying back then:
In 2007 : “You know how they get out? They get out,” Trump said to CNN’s Wolf Blitzer. “That’s how they get out. Declare victory and leave, because I’ll tell you, this country is just going to get further bogged down. They’re in a civil war over there, Wolf. There’s nothing that we’re going to be able to do with a civil war. They are in a major civil war.”
About McCain who he backed in 2008: “I wish he would promise to get us out of Iraq faster,” said Trump. “I am not in love with that aspect of what he represents.”
To Howard Stern: “Anybody who stays in Iraq — look at what happened to McCain — he want to show how tough he is, he’s sunk, immediately, and that’s with the Republicans.”
To GQ: “First, I’d get out of Iraq right now.”
As late as 2011: Trump began saying the U.S. should take Iraq’s oil before withdrawing. Trump also told CNN’s Piers Morgan in February of that year he would get troops in Iraq “out real fast.”
posted by JackFlash at 9:04 AM on August 15, 2016 [25 favorites]
You realize, of course, that this means Katrina Pierson will be running for something. Soon.
Is there no one amongst the talking heads who can defeat her literality?!?
posted by petebest at 9:04 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Is there no one amongst the talking heads who can defeat her literality?!?
posted by petebest at 9:04 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yes but did Twain, Fitzgerald, or Joyce get a cheap frisson of pleasure from looking down on other people for using language that differs from prescriptive norms?
Twain certainly got a kick out of cataloguing Feinmoore Cooper's literary offences
posted by Francis at 9:04 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Twain certainly got a kick out of cataloguing Feinmoore Cooper's literary offences
posted by Francis at 9:04 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
> "Which is better to support: the DSCC or the Senate Majority PAC?"
I don't know if either is "better", per se. I prefer to contribute to the DSCC because I'm not a big fan of PACs.
posted by kyrademon at 9:04 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't know if either is "better", per se. I prefer to contribute to the DSCC because I'm not a big fan of PACs.
posted by kyrademon at 9:04 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
> Even lies should actually collapse down to meaning something, dammit!
Statements have no meaning outside their effects. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to sell you something.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:04 AM on August 15, 2016
Statements have no meaning outside their effects. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to sell you something.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:04 AM on August 15, 2016
But... This is just language reduced to empty grunting noises and pack signifiers!
posted by Artw at 9:07 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:07 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
First we derailed into the timeworn and useless debate about "literally" and now we're doing philosophy of language. Is this what happens when Trump hasn't tweeted for 15 hours?
posted by dis_integration at 9:07 AM on August 15, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 9:07 AM on August 15, 2016 [22 favorites]
They're not using 'literally' literally, to mean literally; they're using 'literally' figuratively, to mean figuratively.
A simpler way to say this is, "They're lying."
posted by aught at 9:08 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
A simpler way to say this is, "They're lying."
posted by aught at 9:08 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Twain would have loved Donald J. Trump in the way that a dog loves a great juicy piece of steak.
posted by sallybrown at 9:11 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 9:11 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
Is this what happens when Trump hasn't tweeted for 15 hours?
For god's sake, won't somebody give him his phone? I...I... need.
posted by No Robots at 9:11 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
For god's sake, won't somebody give him his phone? I...I... need.
posted by No Robots at 9:11 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
> First we derailed into the timeworn and useless debate about "literally" and now we're doing philosophy of language. Is this what happens when Trump hasn't tweeted for 15 hours?
Sad!
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:12 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Sad!
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:12 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
They're not using 'literally' literally, to mean literally; they're using 'literally' figuratively, to mean figuratively.Can we only accuse them of lying when they actually are? Using "literally" to mean "figuratively" has a history has been going on for about 250 years if not longer.
A simpler way to say this is, "They're lying."
posted by Francis at 9:12 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Can we only accuse them of lying when they actually are?
Is this a trick question?
posted by Spathe Cadet at 9:14 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Is this a trick question?
posted by Spathe Cadet at 9:14 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Can we only accuse them of lying when they actually are? Using "literally" to mean "figuratively" has a history has been going on for about 250 years if not longer.
Okay then, "They're literally lying."
posted by aught at 9:14 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Okay then, "They're literally lying."
posted by aught at 9:14 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Twain, Fitzgerald, and Joyce all used literally to mean figuratively.
Which is fine, because they were writing fiction and not defending... Oh! I get it.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:17 AM on August 15, 2016
Which is fine, because they were writing fiction and not defending... Oh! I get it.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:17 AM on August 15, 2016
Can we only accuse them of lying when they actually are?
"Every word out of that man's mouth is a lie, including 'the' and 'and.'"
posted by octobersurprise at 9:17 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Every word out of that man's mouth is a lie, including 'the' and 'and.'"
posted by octobersurprise at 9:17 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
You realize, of course, that this means Katrina Pierson will be running for something. Soon.
Seems unlikely to me, for both Pierson and in general. Campaign flack -> general media correspondent/flack seems like a much more common move, in that realm, where by working for a campaign and repeatedly making noises on TV under duress you establish that you can...repeatedly make noises on TV under duress. Which puts you in the running for time-filler and opinion-haver in the 24-hour news circuit.
Running for office is a whole other kind of mess and flacking doesn't seem like much of an audition or a great sign that any given flack is interested in that other kind of work.
Of course, it's all odds, so never say never. But I wouldn't put money on it even at 10:1. I think Pierson just hopes to find a new gig doing the same thing if she can after this all goes away.
posted by cortex at 9:20 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Seems unlikely to me, for both Pierson and in general. Campaign flack -> general media correspondent/flack seems like a much more common move, in that realm, where by working for a campaign and repeatedly making noises on TV under duress you establish that you can...repeatedly make noises on TV under duress. Which puts you in the running for time-filler and opinion-haver in the 24-hour news circuit.
Running for office is a whole other kind of mess and flacking doesn't seem like much of an audition or a great sign that any given flack is interested in that other kind of work.
Of course, it's all odds, so never say never. But I wouldn't put money on it even at 10:1. I think Pierson just hopes to find a new gig doing the same thing if she can after this all goes away.
posted by cortex at 9:20 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Every word out of that man's mouth is a lie, including "the" and "and."
Now now. That's not quite true. according to Politifact 4% of Donald Trump's statements are actually true. (Completely false and pants on fire between them make up 55%). So it's not quite every word.
posted by Francis at 9:21 AM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
Now now. That's not quite true. according to Politifact 4% of Donald Trump's statements are actually true. (Completely false and pants on fire between them make up 55%). So it's not quite every word.
posted by Francis at 9:21 AM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
I am reminded of Bill Clinton's famous evasion, "That depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."
This was treated as hilariously dishonest by the masses. But in fact it is the central problem in both a whole branch of philosophy and a whole branch of linguistics.
posted by spitbull at 9:21 AM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
This was treated as hilariously dishonest by the masses. But in fact it is the central problem in both a whole branch of philosophy and a whole branch of linguistics.
posted by spitbull at 9:21 AM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
I'm watching the Missouri Senate race between incumbent Republican Roy Blunt and Democrat Jason Kander.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:22 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 9:22 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Also, the non-literal usage of "literally" isn't that it now literally means "figuratively" to some people; it's that the word has been reduced to a blunt intensifier which doesn't mean anything specific, but just acts as the verbal equivalent of raising your voice a little or widening your eyes while asserting something.
posted by aught at 9:23 AM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by aught at 9:23 AM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
spitbull, the masses were correct, given context. If you hijack nonphilisophical conversionations into being and nothingness, people will be correct to consider you an ass.
posted by The Gaffer at 9:24 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by The Gaffer at 9:24 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
cjelli, of course not.
way too much time passed between them for that to be plausible.
posted by The Gaffer at 9:25 AM on August 15, 2016
way too much time passed between them for that to be plausible.
posted by The Gaffer at 9:25 AM on August 15, 2016
In that respect "literally" just replaces "really," which if you think about it is just as fucked up.
posted by spitbull at 9:25 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 9:25 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
the 'literally' derail is literally the worst and by literally I mean literally literally
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:26 AM on August 15, 2016 [37 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:26 AM on August 15, 2016 [37 favorites]
spitbull, the masses were correct, given context. If you hijack nonphilisophical conversionations into being and nothingness, people will be correct to consider you an ass.
On the contrary. Given the context, Clinton could have actually just replied "No." Because there had been one but it had ended. Clinton was, as a lawyer, being too honest for the courtroom.
posted by Francis at 9:26 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
On the contrary. Given the context, Clinton could have actually just replied "No." Because there had been one but it had ended. Clinton was, as a lawyer, being too honest for the courtroom.
posted by Francis at 9:26 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
In that respect "literally" just replaces "really," which if you think about it is just as fucked up.
I *know* [/birbiglia]
posted by aught at 9:26 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I *know* [/birbiglia]
posted by aught at 9:26 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Trump’s biggest fans would also be some of Trump’s worst victims
at OMNIVORE
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:28 AM on August 15, 2016 [47 favorites]
It’s true that in general Trump’s supporters are wealthier than Hillary Clinton’s. There’s no evidence they are any more blighted by globalization or immigration than any other Americans. And, as Sean McElwee and his various collaborators have often noted, the leading indicator that seems to suggest someone is likely to support Trump is racial resentment.Matt Yglesias, VOX: Why I don’t think it makes sense to attribute Trump’s support to economic anxiety
So it had been easy to dismiss what E.J. Dionne calls “the real pain experienced by Trump voters,” which is echoing across much of the western world with the rise of right-wing nationalism. Aging white men feel a chronic lack of “respect” and the hard right has no qualms about playing the devil’s greatest trick.
But when Trump voters say they’re upset about needing to press one for English, mad that Black Lives Matter protesters are slandering police officers, and worried that Muslim and/or Mexican immigrants are going to murder their children, it’s perverse to interpret them as secretly hankering for a refundable child care tax credit. If it’s a good idea, then by all means propose it and implement it.James Kwak: A Cute Joke Gone Too Far
The simple economic anxiety argument goes like this: Many Americans face real economic insecurity—stagnant real wages, higher health care costs, lower homeownership rate, “gig economy,” low workforce participation rate, etc. They think “the system”—whatever they mean by that—isn’t working for them. Hillary Clinton represents “the system” much more than Donald Trump, particularly since she’s claiming most of the legacy of Barack Obama. So they vote Trump. And to repeat: The reason white people support Trump at much higher rates than black people, even though white people are richer than black people, is that Trump is a racist. Is that so hard to understand?Washington Post: White Christian America is dying:
The American religious landscape is being remade, most notably by the decline of the white Protestant majority and the rise of the religiously unaffiliated. These religious transformations have been swift and dramatic, occurring largely within the last four decades. Many white Americans have sensed these changes, and there has been some media coverage of the demographic piece of the puzzle. But while the country’s shifting racial dynamics are certainly a source of apprehension for many white Americans, it is the disappearance of White Christian America that is driving their strong, sometimes apocalyptic reactions. Falling numbers and the marginalization of a once-dominant racial and religious identity — one that has been central not just to white Christians themselves but to the national mythos — threatens white Christians’ understanding of America itself.Front Porch Republic: Mr. Maturen Goes To Washington
What’s next may be hinted at by a 51 year old devout Catholic, businessman, and semi-professional magician named Mike Maturen, who recently accepted the presidential nomination of the American Solidarity Party, the only active Christian Democratic party in the nation.Clinton Derangement Syndrome: Diagnosing the real reason that so many Americans hate Hillary
A Christian Democratic party in America? Well, why not? In any other election season such a thing might seem outlandish, but our national outlandishness scale has been fairly significantly shifted over the past several months. The American Solidarity Party has risen to a certain niche prominence in the past few weeks, and its platform makes, in light of the mutation of the current party system, a certain amount of sense.
Still, Hillary’s willingness to shift her economic policies on issues like the minimum wage – partially in response to advice from leftist politicians like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren – is commendable. It is upon others to constructively critique her policies, and upon Hillary to listen to them. This is standard procedure for any presidential candidate. It is how any presidential nominee should be treated.Brian beutler, The New Republic: The GOP’s New Delusion: Hillary Would Be Losing Badly to Any Other Republican
This is not how Hillary Clinton is treated. It is impossible to equate constructive criticism with the seething hate she has inspired for the past quarter century. You do not need to like Hillary Clinton to admit she is treated differently than other candidates. You do not, in fact, need to like Hillary Clinton at all. If you are an American voter, you need to evaluate her record, the evolution of her ideas over time, and her extremely detailed policy prescriptions On Hillary Clinton's website you can find her policy prescriptions. and decide whether she is more capable of leading the US than Donald Trump.
These are comforting notions to the people who hold them. Conservatives have dedicated their livelihoods to an ideology that’s now under threat. They have a rooting interest in portraying Clinton as an unrightful victor, like a defendant acquitted on a technicality. Political journalists, meanwhile, would like to make bigger issue of Clinton’s cynicism about the press. They are more comfortable writing and talking about liberals vs. conservatives than about Democrats vs. white ethno-nationalists. This election is frustrating the media’s preference for, and comfort with, two-handed journalism.Rolling Stone: Hillary's New Deal: How a Clinton Presidency Could Transform America
All of this can sound like a laundry list of positions and proposals instead of a coherent philosophy of reform like, say, the New Deal or the Great Society. Indeed, since the advent of Reagan, successful Democrats have not affixed lasting labels to their administrations. (Bill Clinton tried, briefly, to call his administration the New Covenant, but mercifully that never got very far.) Yet there is also a great danger in overstating the coherence of the Democratic reformers of long ago. "The country needs and, unless I mistake its temper, the country demands bold, persistent experimentation," FDR declared in 1932. "It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another."more more more
Hillary Clinton has already indicated what she would pursue in her first 100 days in office: launching her infrastructure program; investing in renewable energy; tightening regulation of health-insurance and pharmaceutical companies; and expanding protection of voting rights. She has also said that she will nominate women for half of her Cabinet positions. And not far behind these initiatives are several others, including immigration reform and raising the minimum wage.
Even without a unifying title, it is a sweeping agenda, the latest updating of Democratic reformism.
at OMNIVORE
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:28 AM on August 15, 2016 [47 favorites]
Now now. That's not quite true.
It's not literally true, no.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:30 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's not literally true, no.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:30 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well, the famous California senator S. I. Hayakawa was, in his earlier academic career as a linguist and well into his career as a politician, the leading advocate of General Semantics, a behaviorist theory of language that proposed doing away with the use of the verb "to be" as a prescriptive goal.
posted by spitbull at 9:30 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 9:30 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm watching the Missouri Senate race between incumbent Republican Roy Blunt and Democrat Jason Kander.
There's a wildcard in play, of course. Tim Kaine actually grew up in Kansas City and went to Mizzou - and has been getting media coverage by tweeting about reigniting the border war basketball rivalry. And in the most recent two polls according to 538 Missouri has been neck and neck between Clinton and Trump (although the PEC doesn't seem to acknowledge one of them).
In short I think the Democratic campaign is on its way to help out.
posted by Francis at 9:31 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
There's a wildcard in play, of course. Tim Kaine actually grew up in Kansas City and went to Mizzou - and has been getting media coverage by tweeting about reigniting the border war basketball rivalry. And in the most recent two polls according to 538 Missouri has been neck and neck between Clinton and Trump (although the PEC doesn't seem to acknowledge one of them).
In short I think the Democratic campaign is on its way to help out.
posted by Francis at 9:31 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
That's not quite true. according to Politifact 4% of Donald Trump's statements are actually true.
I'm not even sure how they parse his statements down to discreet assertions.
posted by srboisvert at 9:32 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
I'm not even sure how they parse his statements down to discreet assertions.
posted by srboisvert at 9:32 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
When he asks Christie for a burger, that's got to count as true.
Unless he doesn't really want a burger and is just asking Christie to get him one to fuck with him.
posted by Artw at 9:35 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Unless he doesn't really want a burger and is just asking Christie to get him one to fuck with him.
posted by Artw at 9:35 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
I wouldn't write him off as not helping Clinton get elected yet
Clinton doesn't need his help. At all.
Ted Strickland could sure as hell use it in Ohio, though, since he's down pretty far at this point. And Patrick Murphy could use his help with a maybe-winnable race in Florida. And Deborah Ross in North Carolina. And Katie McGinty in Pennsylvania. And Catherina Cortez in Nevada. And Kander in MO and Barksdale in GA as long shots.
But these are basically boring normal Democrats and I expect he will devote his time and effort towards primarying out his enemies and helping a few pet candidates with their virtually certain wins and losses, because why make a difference when you can do what feels good?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:36 AM on August 15, 2016 [19 favorites]
Clinton doesn't need his help. At all.
Ted Strickland could sure as hell use it in Ohio, though, since he's down pretty far at this point. And Patrick Murphy could use his help with a maybe-winnable race in Florida. And Deborah Ross in North Carolina. And Katie McGinty in Pennsylvania. And Catherina Cortez in Nevada. And Kander in MO and Barksdale in GA as long shots.
But these are basically boring normal Democrats and I expect he will devote his time and effort towards primarying out his enemies and helping a few pet candidates with their virtually certain wins and losses, because why make a difference when you can do what feels good?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:36 AM on August 15, 2016 [19 favorites]
In some good news related to an up thread discussion, NYPD has arrested a suspect in the Ozone Park shooting.
Yay NYPD.
Confusingly, the Daily News is reporting a motive related to a "feud between Muslims and Hispanics" in the neighborhood.
posted by spitbull at 9:38 AM on August 15, 2016
Yay NYPD.
Confusingly, the Daily News is reporting a motive related to a "feud between Muslims and Hispanics" in the neighborhood.
posted by spitbull at 9:38 AM on August 15, 2016
I am reminded of Bill Clinton's famous evasion, "That depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."
This was treated as hilariously dishonest by the masses. But in fact it is the central problem in both a whole branch of philosophy and a whole branch of linguistics.
The context of his statement was being asked if "there's nothing going on between us" was a true statement when he said it, and it was. The affair was over.
If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true.They didn't ask if there had ever been something going on. He could've just said "yes," but he's a smartass and a lawyer and it was a legal deposition.
His using the phrase "sexual relations" was similar. There was a very precise and specific legal definition of sexual relations that didn't include fellatio. To a lay person (hiyoo!) there's no difference, but these are lawyers talking to lawyers in a legal case.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:38 AM on August 15, 2016 [31 favorites]
Honestly I've been linked those Serafinowicz videos a few times but they're really gross "ha ha gay voice amirite?" stuff.
Yes, this: the "sassy Trump" dubs are leaning on some very regressive "make him sound gay and you make him sound weak" stuff.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 9:41 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yes, this: the "sassy Trump" dubs are leaning on some very regressive "make him sound gay and you make him sound weak" stuff.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 9:41 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Just imagine how history would be different if standard English grammar encoded aspect in the copula (as AAVE in fact does).
posted by spitbull at 9:42 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 9:42 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
The New Yorker article about Ivanka & Jared (linked above) concludes:
posted by sallybrown at 9:44 AM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
Ivanka appears to take less delight in the campaign; by all accounts, she truly believes in the causes she championed at the Convention—paid family leave, government-subsidized child care. She also believes that the best way to enact them would be in a Trump Administration. According to friends, she disagrees with things her father has said during the campaign, but she prefers to register her complaints in private. Isn’t that how any loyal daughter would behave?One of the many things I've learned about myself during this election is that, despite being intensely loyal to my family, and to my father in particular, I really do think I would put the interests of my country over that of my family - which comes as a surprise to me. If my dad - who is certainly no Trump!! - was running and said even 1/20th of the things Trump has said (say, the stuff wobbling about NATO), I would do whatever I could to stop my dad. But Trump has clearly raised his children in a manner that makes him the sun around which they revolve; they are dependent on him for everything, they cannot seem to live without him or his approval. And he loves it that way, which no good parent would.
To publicly break with one’s father—or father-in-law—isn’t easy. And for Ivanka and Jared it would be more than just awkward. It would be intolerable: viewed as a betrayal, grounds for banishment and reprisal. They would lose their position and their fortunes. Doing so would require acting against their own self-interest, as well as the interest of their families. And that’s not something that they tend to do.
posted by sallybrown at 9:44 AM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
the "sassy Trump" dubs are leaning on some very regressive "make him sound gay and you make him sound weak" stuff.
Sophisticated Trump is better.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:44 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Sophisticated Trump is better.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:44 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
> the Clintons' son-in-law cofounded a hedge fund and yet they're keeping their cash in the same no-frills Vanguard fund as me.
Right, that's why they're rich.
Eaglevale Partners - "In 2014, Eaglevale Partners opened a Greek-focused fund, Eaglevale Hellenic Opportunity, during a tumultuous time in the Greek economy... In May, 2016, the New York Times reported that Eaglevale was closing the Hellenic fund, which Mezvinsky had helped pitch and run, after the fund lost 90% of its value."
> We hadn't gotten to the point where we had any reflexivity about agreed procedures for the production of collective truth. If there is much of a civilization in the years to come, I think it will have to start here: in conscious and overt agreements, at societal scale, about how we define that which is operationally true.
(from scott aaronson ;)
Eigendemocracy: crowd-sourced deliberative democracy - "Now, would those with axes to grind try to subvert such a system the instant it went online? Certainly. For example, I assume that millions of people would rate Conservapedia as a more trustworthy source than Wikipedia—and would rate other people who had done so as, themselves, trustworthy sources, while rating as untrustworthy anyone who called Conservapedia untrustworthy. So there would arise a parallel world of trust and consensus and 'expertise', mutually-reinforcing yet nearly disjoint from the world of the real. But here's the thing: anyone would be able to see, with the click of a mouse, the extent to which this parallel world had diverged from the real one."
also btw!
A social network for ideas - "My first blog post is about software for collaborating on complex problems by visualizing the semantic network of a 'global brain' -- a graph of everyone's ideas and reasoning involved in the discussion."
posted by kliuless at 9:45 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Right, that's why they're rich.
Eaglevale Partners - "In 2014, Eaglevale Partners opened a Greek-focused fund, Eaglevale Hellenic Opportunity, during a tumultuous time in the Greek economy... In May, 2016, the New York Times reported that Eaglevale was closing the Hellenic fund, which Mezvinsky had helped pitch and run, after the fund lost 90% of its value."
> We hadn't gotten to the point where we had any reflexivity about agreed procedures for the production of collective truth. If there is much of a civilization in the years to come, I think it will have to start here: in conscious and overt agreements, at societal scale, about how we define that which is operationally true.
(from scott aaronson ;)
Eigendemocracy: crowd-sourced deliberative democracy - "Now, would those with axes to grind try to subvert such a system the instant it went online? Certainly. For example, I assume that millions of people would rate Conservapedia as a more trustworthy source than Wikipedia—and would rate other people who had done so as, themselves, trustworthy sources, while rating as untrustworthy anyone who called Conservapedia untrustworthy. So there would arise a parallel world of trust and consensus and 'expertise', mutually-reinforcing yet nearly disjoint from the world of the real. But here's the thing: anyone would be able to see, with the click of a mouse, the extent to which this parallel world had diverged from the real one."
also btw!
A social network for ideas - "My first blog post is about software for collaborating on complex problems by visualizing the semantic network of a 'global brain' -- a graph of everyone's ideas and reasoning involved in the discussion."
posted by kliuless at 9:45 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
To a lay person (hiyoo!) there's no difference, but these are lawyers talking to lawyers in a legal case.
It was only years after those depositions that I realized the lawyers doing the deposing must have felt like novices sent to dispatch a ninja. No, an instructor of ninjas.
Like what he does or no, the man's past mastery of his chosen craft.
posted by Mooski at 9:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
It was only years after those depositions that I realized the lawyers doing the deposing must have felt like novices sent to dispatch a ninja. No, an instructor of ninjas.
Like what he does or no, the man's past mastery of his chosen craft.
posted by Mooski at 9:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
You may be right ROU_Xenophobe, but I'm willing to wait and see before going that far. I mean I'm sure he'll help out those he most favors, but at least the suggestion is there that he's going to do something more substantial than just that. And whether or not Hillary needs his support, I also suspect she doesn't, there are people complaining he isn't giving it, so speaking to that was the purpose of my last response.
posted by gusottertrout at 9:47 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by gusottertrout at 9:47 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's never too early to blame Sanders for.. the size of Hillary's landslide victory?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:50 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:50 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Metafilter: horrid little tone poems
sorry
posted by jokeefe at 9:53 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
sorry
posted by jokeefe at 9:53 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
That's not quite true. according to Politifact 4% of Donald Trump's statements are actually true.
Unfortunately for Trump, a random word salad from any other human being ends up being 5% truth by pure chance.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 9:57 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Unfortunately for Trump, a random word salad from any other human being ends up being 5% truth by pure chance.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 9:57 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
More if you count the dressing.
posted by spitbull at 10:00 AM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 10:00 AM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
It's never too early to blame Sanders for.. the size of Hillary's landslide victory?
There's nothing really to blame Sanders for other than being a champagne socialist who talks a good fight. And remember that of the 47 Democratic Senators who are superdelegates, a grand total of two endorsed him. One of those two was Sanders himself.
The Bernie-or-Busters are either people who are strictly chaotic neutral on the Law/Chaos axis, highly misguided (especially given that in a normal year Jill Stein would be the worst candidate), misguided to the point that they don't realise that they are discrediting any chance of the Democratic Party paying any attention (if you get 80% of the platform and it's still not enough there's no point trying for your vote or offering you anything next time) or not worht bothering with.
posted by Francis at 10:00 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
There's nothing really to blame Sanders for other than being a champagne socialist who talks a good fight. And remember that of the 47 Democratic Senators who are superdelegates, a grand total of two endorsed him. One of those two was Sanders himself.
The Bernie-or-Busters are either people who are strictly chaotic neutral on the Law/Chaos axis, highly misguided (especially given that in a normal year Jill Stein would be the worst candidate), misguided to the point that they don't realise that they are discrediting any chance of the Democratic Party paying any attention (if you get 80% of the platform and it's still not enough there's no point trying for your vote or offering you anything next time) or not worht bothering with.
posted by Francis at 10:00 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
I'm typically on the descriptivist side of things but come on people. There are just so many different intensifiers one can use, truly, incredibly, amazingly, bigly numbers of them. It's just really tremendous how very many of them there are.
Please. Let us have this one little word 'literally' for those occasions when we want to indicate our use of the literal meaning of a word. Please please please.
And re: philosophy of language, I don't see how Don't Tip A Buick's position is indistinguishable from a very strong philosophical idealism. If words are merely a figleaf for the exertion of power with no relation whatsoever to anything that might be considered 'true' or 'real', then, well, why the fuck are we all talking instead of punching each other in the face when we don't like a thing?
That is exactly what the nihilists want.
On the other hand, I would like us to continue to attempt to describe reality with words, acknowledging that words (and the narratives and structures and so on that they're used to build) indeed can be used to manipulate and obfuscate and oppress and particularly, we see in this election, to overwhelm resistance via a firehose of word salads and lies.
But words can also be used to heal, to connect, to learn, and to bring together. How do we do this without unwittingly creating new oppressive structures?
Well, I consider that it begins with hearing as many stories and perspectives as possible. That's why I'm really glad that the HRC campaign has focused so hard on the concept of 'listening'. I don't know if they're doing that because it's good politics or whatever -- but I believe it is morally the right thing to do.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:01 AM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
Please. Let us have this one little word 'literally' for those occasions when we want to indicate our use of the literal meaning of a word. Please please please.
And re: philosophy of language, I don't see how Don't Tip A Buick's position is indistinguishable from a very strong philosophical idealism. If words are merely a figleaf for the exertion of power with no relation whatsoever to anything that might be considered 'true' or 'real', then, well, why the fuck are we all talking instead of punching each other in the face when we don't like a thing?
That is exactly what the nihilists want.
On the other hand, I would like us to continue to attempt to describe reality with words, acknowledging that words (and the narratives and structures and so on that they're used to build) indeed can be used to manipulate and obfuscate and oppress and particularly, we see in this election, to overwhelm resistance via a firehose of word salads and lies.
But words can also be used to heal, to connect, to learn, and to bring together. How do we do this without unwittingly creating new oppressive structures?
Well, I consider that it begins with hearing as many stories and perspectives as possible. That's why I'm really glad that the HRC campaign has focused so hard on the concept of 'listening'. I don't know if they're doing that because it's good politics or whatever -- but I believe it is morally the right thing to do.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:01 AM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
words are very unnecessary. they can only do harm
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:07 AM on August 15, 2016 [29 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:07 AM on August 15, 2016 [29 favorites]
Pollsters: Trump approaching zero hour — Politico, 15 Aug
Brought to attention largely for the following sentence:
Brought to attention largely for the following sentence:
“It’s not magical,” Wlezian said. “[The electorate is] substantially baked. Not everybody’s locked in, but there’s a lot of voters locked in now.”posted by octobersurprise at 10:07 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
then the Hippocratic Oath becomes ( )
posted by Dashy at 10:08 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Dashy at 10:08 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I mean let's really not get into this but you could read some Dewey, Davidson, Rorty, and so on and get a feel for what it might mean to say that words have meaning only in the effect they have on others. It's definitely a controversial view and I think out of fashion but a legit position in philosophy of language.
Also the reason we don't just hit people with sticks is that words are often more effective.
posted by dis_integration at 10:08 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also the reason we don't just hit people with sticks is that words are often more effective.
posted by dis_integration at 10:08 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm not nearly baked enough.
posted by adamgreenfield at 10:09 AM on August 15, 2016 [28 favorites]
posted by adamgreenfield at 10:09 AM on August 15, 2016 [28 favorites]
Hillary is speaking now in Scranton, currently talking mostly about the work Biden has been doing.
posted by cashman at 10:11 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by cashman at 10:11 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
“It’s not magical,” Wlezian said. “[The electorate is] substantially baked."
I knew legal weed would cement Colorado's status as a blue state!
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:13 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
I knew legal weed would cement Colorado's status as a blue state!
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:13 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
Here's a stream for Hillary speaking right now in Scranton, PA
posted by airish at 10:14 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by airish at 10:14 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Austin, Searle, Bloomfield, Wittgenstein, Sapir...
The linguistic anthropologist Elizabeth Mertz once made an interesting argument that students in law school are actually trained to think of language as a behavioral phenomenon (what she calls an indexical theory of linguistic meaning, following Peirce). They have to unlearn a naively symbolic conception in which the meanings of words can be understood apart from intention and effect.
posted by spitbull at 10:14 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
The linguistic anthropologist Elizabeth Mertz once made an interesting argument that students in law school are actually trained to think of language as a behavioral phenomenon (what she calls an indexical theory of linguistic meaning, following Peirce). They have to unlearn a naively symbolic conception in which the meanings of words can be understood apart from intention and effect.
posted by spitbull at 10:14 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
From that 'zero hour' article: University of Texas professor Christopher Wlezian, who co-authored the book “The Timeline of Presidential Elections: How Campaigns Do (and Do Not) Matter.”
Man oh man is he gonna have to update that book after this election. It's like a picture-perfect test case for exactly how much campaigns do or do not matter.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:16 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Man oh man is he gonna have to update that book after this election. It's like a picture-perfect test case for exactly how much campaigns do or do not matter.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:16 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Livestream - CSPAN: Hillary Clinton Campaign Event in Scranton. Vice President Joe Biden joined 2016 Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton for a campaign rally in his hometown of Scranton, Pennsylvania, also the hometown of the former secretary of state’s father, Hugh Rodham.
posted by cashman at 10:16 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 10:16 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
“[The electorate is] substantially baked.
it's the only thing getting me through, that's for sure.
posted by phearlez at 10:17 AM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
it's the only thing getting me through, that's for sure.
posted by phearlez at 10:17 AM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
> And re: philosophy of language, I don't see how Don't Tip A Buick's position is indistinguishable from a very strong philosophical idealism. If words are merely a figleaf for the exertion of power with no relation whatsoever to anything that might be considered 'true' or 'real', then, well, why the fuck are we all talking instead of punching each other in the face when we don't like a thing?
The short answer is because talking works better.
The slightly longer answer is that sometimes we need to generate different effects than the ones afforded by punching; the difference between us and non-language-using animals isn't that we have a transcendent way of conveying meaning but instead that the tool of language affords us more ways of producing a broader range of effects than we could produce otherwise. It's possible to understand language as a thing in the world that does things rather than a thing separate from the world that describes things without also reducing power and the exertion of power to "me punch!"
The even shorter answer is, I guess, "nuh-uh UR the idealist!"
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:19 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
The short answer is because talking works better.
The slightly longer answer is that sometimes we need to generate different effects than the ones afforded by punching; the difference between us and non-language-using animals isn't that we have a transcendent way of conveying meaning but instead that the tool of language affords us more ways of producing a broader range of effects than we could produce otherwise. It's possible to understand language as a thing in the world that does things rather than a thing separate from the world that describes things without also reducing power and the exertion of power to "me punch!"
The even shorter answer is, I guess, "nuh-uh UR the idealist!"
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:19 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
TPM: New Poll Shows Trump Facing Historic Gap Among Young Voters:
posted by palindromic at 10:20 AM on August 15, 2016 [19 favorites]
Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump falls a distant 36 points behind Democratic opponent Hillary Clinton, edging near an unprecedented unpopularity among young voters, according to a new USA Today/Rock the Vote poll of individuals age 18-34.Considering that attracting young voters may pay long-term dividends as they maintain lifelong identification with the first party they vote for, what is the long-term damage the GOP is incurring with Trump?
When asked presidential preference between the two major-party candidates, Millennial voters preferred Clinton, 56-20.
posted by palindromic at 10:20 AM on August 15, 2016 [19 favorites]
Hillary back at it again with the "Friends should not let friends vote for Trump" jawn*. I love that line. She's also talking about Trump's 4 billion dollars for himself and people like him, while 99.8% of Americans get nothing.
*she's going to be in Philly tomorrow, I'm just starting early.
posted by cashman at 10:20 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
*she's going to be in Philly tomorrow, I'm just starting early.
posted by cashman at 10:20 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Hillary: Childcare costs as much as in-state tuition in many places.
posted by cashman at 10:21 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by cashman at 10:21 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Pollsters: Trump approaching zero hour — Politico, 15 Aug
What scares liberals is that Trump could recover if he'd just shut his damn mouth. Hillary own goaled relitigating her emails on her victory lap but what was Trump doing in the mean time? Starting up a Kobayashi Maru shitfight with the Khans and THEN relitigated every dumb thing he said during the primaries.
The American electorate has the collective memory of a goldfish for what they perceive as affable white men. All he has to do is shut his god damn mouth and reiterate that wants to bring jobs back from evil companies, blow up ISIS, and build the wall at every rally but since he has the attention span of a hyperactive ferret he can't help himself but to say something even more dumb or outlandish.
And it's absolutely terrifying that someone like this could recover and still win the presidency.
posted by Talez at 10:21 AM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
No candidate in Donald Trump’s position at this stage of the campaign has gone on to win the popular vote in November in the modern polling era.This isn't an ordinary election though.
What scares liberals is that Trump could recover if he'd just shut his damn mouth. Hillary own goaled relitigating her emails on her victory lap but what was Trump doing in the mean time? Starting up a Kobayashi Maru shitfight with the Khans and THEN relitigated every dumb thing he said during the primaries.
The American electorate has the collective memory of a goldfish for what they perceive as affable white men. All he has to do is shut his god damn mouth and reiterate that wants to bring jobs back from evil companies, blow up ISIS, and build the wall at every rally but since he has the attention span of a hyperactive ferret he can't help himself but to say something even more dumb or outlandish.
And it's absolutely terrifying that someone like this could recover and still win the presidency.
posted by Talez at 10:21 AM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
When he asks Christie for a burger, that's got to count as true.
A request is not a statement, so the "truth value" is irrelevant.
posted by psoas at 10:22 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
A request is not a statement, so the "truth value" is irrelevant.
posted by psoas at 10:22 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
> If words are merely a figleaf for the exertion of power with no relation whatsoever to anything that might be considered 'true' or 'real', then, well, why the fuck are we all talking?
I mean basically what I'm saying is that a connection between words and reality exists, but that this connection comes after the fact, and is found through examining what words do rather than what they mean.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:22 AM on August 15, 2016
I mean basically what I'm saying is that a connection between words and reality exists, but that this connection comes after the fact, and is found through examining what words do rather than what they mean.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:22 AM on August 15, 2016
Hillary hitting Trump hard on his Childcare lies right now. She made the zero symbol with her hand and said "You. Get. NOTHING", talking about how Trump property workers would not have childcare benefits.
posted by cashman at 10:23 AM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by cashman at 10:23 AM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
The American electorate has the collective memory of a goldfish for what they perceive as affable white men.
Then I'm even less worried, because though Trump is clearly male and white, affable he ain't. Ever.
posted by bearwife at 10:24 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Then I'm even less worried, because though Trump is clearly male and white, affable he ain't. Ever.
posted by bearwife at 10:24 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hillary talking about stopping ISIS: Make no mistake, we will prevail.
posted by cashman at 10:24 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 10:24 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
You realize, of course, that this means Katrina Pierson will be running for something. Soon.
She already ran for office at least once. In 2014, she primaried Pete Sessions. Sessions got 63% of the vote.
posted by drezdn at 10:25 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well, one of the major reasons that language can be used to "do things" is, it communicates factual information very well and in great detail.
posted by thelonius at 10:25 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 10:25 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
If you told most Americans they are misusing "literally," their response would be to say "I could care less." A phrase, which, like their misuse of "literally," literally means the opposite of what they're trying to say.
posted by zakur at 10:25 AM on August 15, 2016 [23 favorites]
posted by zakur at 10:25 AM on August 15, 2016 [23 favorites]
The primaries are over.
Clinton is well ahead in the general.
When asked presidential preference between the two major-party candidates, Millennial voters preferred Clinton, 56-20.
There are no Bernie or Busters in this thread.
What is to be gained by the constant drive-by villification of Sanders?
posted by maggiemaggie at 10:25 AM on August 15, 2016 [23 favorites]
Clinton is well ahead in the general.
When asked presidential preference between the two major-party candidates, Millennial voters preferred Clinton, 56-20.
There are no Bernie or Busters in this thread.
What is to be gained by the constant drive-by villification of Sanders?
posted by maggiemaggie at 10:25 AM on August 15, 2016 [23 favorites]
TPM Livewire: Clinton Leads In Breitbart Poll Conducted As Rebuke To MSM Surveys
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:25 AM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:25 AM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
As a big fan of Chris Traeger I was lit'rally enjoying the literally discussion.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:26 AM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:26 AM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
Then I'm even less worried, because though Trump is clearly male and white, affable he ain't. Ever.
You'd be surprised. I have a relation in upstate New York. The kid is differently abled, on the spectrum. He's voting for Trump because he absolutely loves The Apprentice. Once he sent Trump a letter and got a form letter back and he proudly displays it!
To a liberal he's poison but to low information voters he's like a puppy wrapped in cotton candy.
posted by Talez at 10:26 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
You'd be surprised. I have a relation in upstate New York. The kid is differently abled, on the spectrum. He's voting for Trump because he absolutely loves The Apprentice. Once he sent Trump a letter and got a form letter back and he proudly displays it!
To a liberal he's poison but to low information voters he's like a puppy wrapped in cotton candy.
posted by Talez at 10:26 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
perhaps we should instead use "littorally" to signify when something is relating to, or situated on, the shores of literal truthfulness
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:27 AM on August 15, 2016 [38 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:27 AM on August 15, 2016 [38 favorites]
Hillary is really doing well right now. The crowd is loving it, and she just introduced Biden.
posted by cashman at 10:28 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by cashman at 10:28 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Hillary has gotten better at public speaking. Her cadence is more relaxed.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:29 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:29 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I have to say that I love the article posted above by the always awesome man of twists and turns. For example, this discussion of [HRC] Derangement syndrome:
When possessed, the victim sees Hillary Clinton as a woman of unimaginable power. Her most amazing trick is the ability to eliminate men from American history. For example:
Did the US go to war in Iraq because of George W. Bush and his team of neoconservative advisors? No, it was because Senator Hillary Clinton voted for it.
Do we have mass incarceration for black Americans because Bill Clinton, backed by bipartisan leadership and widespread public support, instated a crime bill in 1994 that had horrific repercussions ? No, it was because Hillary was First Lady and gave a speech supporting it (as did Bernie Sanders and many other liberal politicians).
Is the recent rise of authoritarianism and terrorism the result of complex worldwide geopolitical problems that now fall to John Kerry, current Secretary of State – along with many others – to solve? No. Hillary Clinton, who left her office as Secretary of State in 2013, and only Hillary, is causing these problems.
There are also some great additional links discussing these frequent accusations.
posted by bearwife at 10:30 AM on August 15, 2016 [44 favorites]
When possessed, the victim sees Hillary Clinton as a woman of unimaginable power. Her most amazing trick is the ability to eliminate men from American history. For example:
Did the US go to war in Iraq because of George W. Bush and his team of neoconservative advisors? No, it was because Senator Hillary Clinton voted for it.
Do we have mass incarceration for black Americans because Bill Clinton, backed by bipartisan leadership and widespread public support, instated a crime bill in 1994 that had horrific repercussions ? No, it was because Hillary was First Lady and gave a speech supporting it (as did Bernie Sanders and many other liberal politicians).
Is the recent rise of authoritarianism and terrorism the result of complex worldwide geopolitical problems that now fall to John Kerry, current Secretary of State – along with many others – to solve? No. Hillary Clinton, who left her office as Secretary of State in 2013, and only Hillary, is causing these problems.
There are also some great additional links discussing these frequent accusations.
posted by bearwife at 10:30 AM on August 15, 2016 [44 favorites]
The American electorate has the collective memory of a goldfish for what they perceive as affable white men. All he has to do is shut his god damn mouth and reiterate that wants to bring jobs back from evil companies, blow up ISIS, and build the wall at every rally but since he has the attention span of a hyperactive ferret he can't help himself but to say something even more dumb or outlandish.
Honestly, I think this is ridiculous. Millions of people who currently say they are not voting for Trump would have to change their minds, and (considering what that article says) you think this is more likely to happen in this election than in any election since the 1950s? When Clinton is up by higher margins than any candidate in decades? That's not so much 'not giving the American people enough credit' as it is 'hyperbolically freaking out for what would seem to be no actual reason at all.'
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:30 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Honestly, I think this is ridiculous. Millions of people who currently say they are not voting for Trump would have to change their minds, and (considering what that article says) you think this is more likely to happen in this election than in any election since the 1950s? When Clinton is up by higher margins than any candidate in decades? That's not so much 'not giving the American people enough credit' as it is 'hyperbolically freaking out for what would seem to be no actual reason at all.'
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:30 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Then I'm even less worried, because though Trump is clearly male and white, affable he ain't. Ever.
The standard for "affability" shifts depending on skintone, gender expression, and (purported) bank account.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:31 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
The standard for "affability" shifts depending on skintone, gender expression, and (purported) bank account.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:31 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Pollsters: Trump approaching zero hour
Folks. Folks, I have to tell you. It is almost zero hour. Nine a.m. The best hour, there is no better hour. Barack Obama wants zero hour to be so much later. Hillary Clinton, there will never be a zero hour, because Hillary Clinton founded Greenwich Mean Time.
Last night, preflight, Melania — and no one does this better than Melania — Melania packed my bags, as I said, preflight. I am going to be so, so high by then. No one will be bigger or higher than me at zero hour.
I miss the earth — which by the way is going to hell, so fast, but I am going to take this failing planet and turn it around; the only way we won't turn it around is if there is cheating, is if this planet is rigged — and I miss my wife, Melania, who packed my bags. Preflight! Preflight, people. You know, earth may be going to hell, but there are thousands of people right here today. A lot of people are saying it's lonely out in space. People are saying it's lonely and it's timeless, because Hillary Clinton wants to destroy zero hour. Sad.
Hillary Clinton wants you to raise your kids on Mars. Does that sound like any place to raise your kids? You tell me. Me, personally, a lot of people, a lot of people are saying Mars is cold as hell. Now how is global warming supposed to be a thing if Mars is so cold? The whole idea is preposterous; even if Crooked Hillary tried to raise your kids there — your kids, which by the way, what business does the government have raising your kids? — even if she tried, she couldn't, because there's no one there. Not one person. There is no one on Mars to raise your kids, but that's where Crooked Hillary is telling you to raise them.
Yesterday, the failing New York Times ran a hit piece saying that it wouldn't be long before touchdown brings me round again to find — and this is a pathetic accusation, just pathetic, from the worst kind of people — that I'm not the man I think I am at home. These ridiculous allegations by sleaze reporters. No, folks, I tell you, it is going to be a long, long, LONG, very long time, the biggest time, until I come around on a huge touchdown, the biggest. Extra point kicks, everything.
Oh no. No, no. Not a chance. I'm a rocket candidate, burning up a fuse, which will be made right here, in the USA. It's lonely up here, folks. Lonely. But you know, I don't mind.
[fake]
posted by compartment at 10:31 AM on August 15, 2016 [188 favorites]
Folks. Folks, I have to tell you. It is almost zero hour. Nine a.m. The best hour, there is no better hour. Barack Obama wants zero hour to be so much later. Hillary Clinton, there will never be a zero hour, because Hillary Clinton founded Greenwich Mean Time.
Last night, preflight, Melania — and no one does this better than Melania — Melania packed my bags, as I said, preflight. I am going to be so, so high by then. No one will be bigger or higher than me at zero hour.
I miss the earth — which by the way is going to hell, so fast, but I am going to take this failing planet and turn it around; the only way we won't turn it around is if there is cheating, is if this planet is rigged — and I miss my wife, Melania, who packed my bags. Preflight! Preflight, people. You know, earth may be going to hell, but there are thousands of people right here today. A lot of people are saying it's lonely out in space. People are saying it's lonely and it's timeless, because Hillary Clinton wants to destroy zero hour. Sad.
Hillary Clinton wants you to raise your kids on Mars. Does that sound like any place to raise your kids? You tell me. Me, personally, a lot of people, a lot of people are saying Mars is cold as hell. Now how is global warming supposed to be a thing if Mars is so cold? The whole idea is preposterous; even if Crooked Hillary tried to raise your kids there — your kids, which by the way, what business does the government have raising your kids? — even if she tried, she couldn't, because there's no one there. Not one person. There is no one on Mars to raise your kids, but that's where Crooked Hillary is telling you to raise them.
Yesterday, the failing New York Times ran a hit piece saying that it wouldn't be long before touchdown brings me round again to find — and this is a pathetic accusation, just pathetic, from the worst kind of people — that I'm not the man I think I am at home. These ridiculous allegations by sleaze reporters. No, folks, I tell you, it is going to be a long, long, LONG, very long time, the biggest time, until I come around on a huge touchdown, the biggest. Extra point kicks, everything.
Oh no. No, no. Not a chance. I'm a rocket candidate, burning up a fuse, which will be made right here, in the USA. It's lonely up here, folks. Lonely. But you know, I don't mind.
[fake]
posted by compartment at 10:31 AM on August 15, 2016 [188 favorites]
Clinton gracefully introduced Biden and is now sitting quietly and supportively behind him. Basic manners and politicking, but something that Trump is completely incapable of. Compare this to his introduction of Pence and their 60 Minutes interview together.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:33 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 10:33 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think it's going to be a long, long time before somebody tops that, compartment.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:33 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:33 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
TPM Livewire: Clinton Leads In Breitbart Poll Conducted As Rebuke To MSM Surveys
I'm not going to look for obvious reasons, but... They ran the story anyway? Or the poll was available publicly for other reasons?
posted by Artw at 10:34 AM on August 15, 2016
I'm not going to look for obvious reasons, but... They ran the story anyway? Or the poll was available publicly for other reasons?
posted by Artw at 10:34 AM on August 15, 2016
What is to be gained by the constant drive-by villification of Sanders?
If that's directed at me, I swear I have no intention of villifying Sanders. I would like to call on him to support Hillary Clinton as he said he would because I do think there are big gains to be made there. I am saddened and disappointed to see all that enthusiasm turn into cynicism on the part of many of his followers because I think we have a golden opportunity this election cycle to turn things around and not just elect a Democratic President, but also give her a Democratic Senate and Congress. Every little bit counts.
posted by peacheater at 10:34 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
If that's directed at me, I swear I have no intention of villifying Sanders. I would like to call on him to support Hillary Clinton as he said he would because I do think there are big gains to be made there. I am saddened and disappointed to see all that enthusiasm turn into cynicism on the part of many of his followers because I think we have a golden opportunity this election cycle to turn things around and not just elect a Democratic President, but also give her a Democratic Senate and Congress. Every little bit counts.
posted by peacheater at 10:34 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Well as long as we agree that idealism is THE ENEMY.
I'm fine with the idea that words are a subtle tool for control of bodies (in both the physics sense and, particularly, the sense of human bodies). But they are not that alone. As small, fragile creatures in this big universe, we have to use a multiplicity of metaphors in our attempts to describe reality.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:37 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm fine with the idea that words are a subtle tool for control of bodies (in both the physics sense and, particularly, the sense of human bodies). But they are not that alone. As small, fragile creatures in this big universe, we have to use a multiplicity of metaphors in our attempts to describe reality.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:37 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
holy shit compartment just won at fake Trump comments more bigly than anyone has won at fake Trump comments across all election threads, ever
compartment is the Usain Bolt of fake Trump comments
flagged as fantastic
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:37 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
compartment is the Usain Bolt of fake Trump comments
flagged as fantastic
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:37 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
[...] Oh no. No, no. Not a chance. I'm a rocket candidate, burning up a fuse, which will be made right here, in the USA. It's lonely up here, folks. Lonely. But you know, I don't mind.
If his tweets are Trumpian Haiku, I think this here counts as a Trumpian Sonnet.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:37 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
If his tweets are Trumpian Haiku, I think this here counts as a Trumpian Sonnet.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:37 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Compartment, you just made me so happy and so sad at the same time.
posted by Dashy at 10:38 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 10:38 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Sanders is supporting HRC. He wrote a primo editorial last week in the LA times laying out a detailed case for why we all should oppose Trump AND support HRC. He also worked the convention hard to garner support for HRC, with some effect I think.
The Sanders campaign did a great job on the issues and overwhelmingly his supporters have followed their candidate in shifting support to HRC.
posted by bearwife at 10:38 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
The Sanders campaign did a great job on the issues and overwhelmingly his supporters have followed their candidate in shifting support to HRC.
posted by bearwife at 10:38 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
There's also Indiana -- Dan Coats (R) vs. Evan Bayh (D) -- which doesn't appear to have been polled yet.
Since Coats isn't running for re-election, I think Bayh will beat him handily. Bayh is running against so-far-to-the-right-it's-insane Todd Young. Bayh stands a good chance of turning the Senate seat Democratic, but it will be very close. Conservative PACs are running oodles of commercials against Bayh right now, here in Indiana.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:40 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Since Coats isn't running for re-election, I think Bayh will beat him handily. Bayh is running against so-far-to-the-right-it's-insane Todd Young. Bayh stands a good chance of turning the Senate seat Democratic, but it will be very close. Conservative PACs are running oodles of commercials against Bayh right now, here in Indiana.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:40 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I've listened/read carefully: each of Sanders' opportunities for endorsements ends with "and that is why we must defeat Trump" -- he very carefully does NOT make the case that HRC is the best person for the job.
That is disappointing to me.
posted by Dashy at 10:41 AM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
That is disappointing to me.
posted by Dashy at 10:41 AM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
Katrina Pierson has already run for office and lost. She ran in the 2013 Republican primary against Texas Representative Pete Sessions, who reps TX-32, a northeastern suburb of Dallas.
posted by zarq at 10:42 AM on August 15, 2016 [26 favorites]
"But Pierson’s detractors used her past against her on the campaign trail, accusing her of hypocrisy for receiving $11,000 in unemployment benefits during her time volunteering for the Cruz campaign — despite the fact that she frequently criticized government benefits as a candidate.She's not in her 20's. Nor is she naive. She's a racist former tea party activist who is as much of a liar and con artist as Donald Trump.
There was speculation that her campaign was more of a vanity run to elevate her profile and get on television than a serious primary challenge.
“She didn’t raise any real money. Her campaign didn’t do that much grassroots,” said Mackowiak. “It was almost a scam of a campaign.”
Sessions cruised to victory."
posted by zarq at 10:42 AM on August 15, 2016 [26 favorites]
Kira Lerner: In Several States, Trump’s Poll Monitors May Be ‘Second Amendment People’
Every state allows the carrying of concealed weapons in some form and most states allow the open carry of a firearm, most with a state-issued permit. Meanwhile, only ten states (Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, South Carolina and Texas) explicitly prevent weapons from being carried into polling places.posted by zombieflanders at 10:44 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Many people vote in places like schools or government buildings, locations where most states ban concealed carry. But many elections are also held in private locations like churches or stores, where gun possession is up to the owner’s discretion. Only 12 states bar people from carrying guns in all places of worship.
Though the law varies by state, gun owners have been known to carry their weapons to the polls in past elections. In Georgia, where the law explicitly prevents guns from being carried within 150 feet of any election location, some counties decided in 2014 to allow them anyway.
perhaps we should instead use "littorally" to signify when something is relating to, or situated on, the shores of literal truthfulness
I feel a bit stranded rn tbh
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:44 AM on August 15, 2016
I feel a bit stranded rn tbh
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:44 AM on August 15, 2016
Ooh, crying baby in the background at the rally. You could probably only hear it crying because Biden is currently telling a really sad story about healthcare. And the audience is transfixed. It is notable because in this season of chanting and yelling and interruptions and protesting, an entire roomful of people actually stayed quiet and gave the speaker respect, and listened. The baby only cried for a few moments. Biden and HRC look great up there today.
posted by cashman at 10:44 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by cashman at 10:44 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
Diamond Joe is on fire.
posted by Talez at 10:44 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Talez at 10:44 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
I feel like I'm waiting for some sort of bizzaro sports like game and I'm not liking this part of me at all. I should be working on other things but I keep finding myself back to reading and wondering if Trump can manage to just read his speech script like a good little boy today or if the urges to comment on all the crap that's come out are going to win out. Beyond the stupid found in his policies can he manage to not do something else stupid?
I need to get a life.
posted by Jalliah at 10:45 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Diamond Joe can silence a crying baby by smiling at it. This is an at-will ability with unlimited daily uses
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [38 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [38 favorites]
Can someone point me in the direction of a site or person that can explain what the hell the right wing crap about the Clinton Foundation is all about? (I know it's bogus).
Criticism of the Clinton Foundation's finances are not limited to "right wing crap," for the record, although it probably shouldn't be surprising that right-wing news sources are more willing to devote resources to follow up the story. One name to look for is Doug Henwood, longtime editor of the Left Business Observer and author of the recent book, My Turn: Hilary Clinton Targets the Presidency (which got publicity for its use of a shocking painting by Sarah Sole for its cover, but most reviews indicate it's a sharp left-wing critique of Hillary's policies over the years; I'll let you know after I read it this month).
Anyway, a while ago Henwood pointed to this article from last October, How Do You Spell Apparent Fraud? The Clinton Foundation, Shady Accounting and AIDS by Ken Silverstein, one of the founders of the left-wing magazine Counterpunch, at the crowdfunded journalism site Byline.com. It surveys the financial misconduct allegations against the Clinton Foundation and provides some decent links (many, yes, to right-leaning news outlets and journalists who publish at right-wing sites). I haven't kept an eye on the story since then, but will let you know if I find more recent summaries from a left-wing perspective.
Bottom line: I think even the most cursory glance at the Clinton Foundation's finances reveals good evidence of corruption, illegal accounting practices, cronyism, etc. Not a happy sight for kneejerk, diehard Hillary supporters, but not surprising for those of us who plan on voting for her but are trying not to delude ourselves about who and what she is.
posted by mediareport at 10:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Criticism of the Clinton Foundation's finances are not limited to "right wing crap," for the record, although it probably shouldn't be surprising that right-wing news sources are more willing to devote resources to follow up the story. One name to look for is Doug Henwood, longtime editor of the Left Business Observer and author of the recent book, My Turn: Hilary Clinton Targets the Presidency (which got publicity for its use of a shocking painting by Sarah Sole for its cover, but most reviews indicate it's a sharp left-wing critique of Hillary's policies over the years; I'll let you know after I read it this month).
Anyway, a while ago Henwood pointed to this article from last October, How Do You Spell Apparent Fraud? The Clinton Foundation, Shady Accounting and AIDS by Ken Silverstein, one of the founders of the left-wing magazine Counterpunch, at the crowdfunded journalism site Byline.com. It surveys the financial misconduct allegations against the Clinton Foundation and provides some decent links (many, yes, to right-leaning news outlets and journalists who publish at right-wing sites). I haven't kept an eye on the story since then, but will let you know if I find more recent summaries from a left-wing perspective.
Bottom line: I think even the most cursory glance at the Clinton Foundation's finances reveals good evidence of corruption, illegal accounting practices, cronyism, etc. Not a happy sight for kneejerk, diehard Hillary supporters, but not surprising for those of us who plan on voting for her but are trying not to delude ourselves about who and what she is.
posted by mediareport at 10:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Joe Biden: "You know what bothers me most about Trump? His cynicism is unbounded."
posted by cashman at 10:47 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by cashman at 10:47 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
he very carefully does NOT make the case that HRC is the best person for the job.
He just spent months making the case that he was the best person for the job. Don't belabor his support.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:47 AM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
He just spent months making the case that he was the best person for the job. Don't belabor his support.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:47 AM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
> "I'm not going to look for obvious reasons, but... They ran the story anyway? Or the poll was available publicly for other reasons?"
The story does in fact include a couple of unintentionally hilarious paragraphs explaining why the poll is still Bad News For Clinton.
posted by kyrademon at 10:48 AM on August 15, 2016
The story does in fact include a couple of unintentionally hilarious paragraphs explaining why the poll is still Bad News For Clinton.
posted by kyrademon at 10:48 AM on August 15, 2016
[The electorate is] substantially baked.
Tell me about it, lines at the Bud Hut are crazypants. Speaking of pants, mine don't fit right anymore, thanks to munchies plus general stress-eating. But I'm remarkably chill, all things considered.
posted by palomar at 10:51 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Tell me about it, lines at the Bud Hut are crazypants. Speaking of pants, mine don't fit right anymore, thanks to munchies plus general stress-eating. But I'm remarkably chill, all things considered.
posted by palomar at 10:51 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Don't belabor his support.
What's funny is that news outlets like RT call him a sell-out — yes, those exact words — for supporting Hillary. The guy can't catch a break, either way, it seems. Still, he managed to get actual, real progressive policy into the platform, so he has my gratitude even he doesn't have that of others. It'll be up to us to make sure Hillary acts on her side of the bargain after November.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 10:51 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
What's funny is that news outlets like RT call him a sell-out — yes, those exact words — for supporting Hillary. The guy can't catch a break, either way, it seems. Still, he managed to get actual, real progressive policy into the platform, so he has my gratitude even he doesn't have that of others. It'll be up to us to make sure Hillary acts on her side of the bargain after November.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 10:51 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
I've listened/read carefully: each of Sanders' opportunities for endorsements ends with "and that is why we must defeat Trump" -- he very carefully does NOT make the case that HRC is the best person for the job.
At the heart of good rhetoric is the capacity to understand the background positions, attitudes and prejudices of your audience, and then shape your language in order to meet them where they are and nudge them along, not yell at them from across a cavern, and try to get them to make a leap. What's the best way to convince a NeverHillary voter? By starting out from a position where you have no common ground with them, or by meeting them where they are, and then trying to get them to see how voting for HRC is the best option, even if they don't like it?
posted by dis_integration at 10:53 AM on August 15, 2016 [24 favorites]
At the heart of good rhetoric is the capacity to understand the background positions, attitudes and prejudices of your audience, and then shape your language in order to meet them where they are and nudge them along, not yell at them from across a cavern, and try to get them to make a leap. What's the best way to convince a NeverHillary voter? By starting out from a position where you have no common ground with them, or by meeting them where they are, and then trying to get them to see how voting for HRC is the best option, even if they don't like it?
posted by dis_integration at 10:53 AM on August 15, 2016 [24 favorites]
Biden is going off on Trump right now, it's glorious. He asked why Trump didn't realize that Japan's constitution was written so they wouldn't be a nuclear power. "Where...was he???," biden said, putting his hands up around his head in that wtf? way.
If you're unable to catch this rally right now and you see the video online later, It's worth watching.
posted by cashman at 10:53 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
If you're unable to catch this rally right now and you see the video online later, It's worth watching.
posted by cashman at 10:53 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
It's telling that Hillary is fine with allowing Biden the headline slot in his hometown.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:54 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:54 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
stress-eating
Right there with you. That and I'm surprised I haven't yet exhausted the Earth's supply of rosé.
posted by sallybrown at 10:54 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Right there with you. That and I'm surprised I haven't yet exhausted the Earth's supply of rosé.
posted by sallybrown at 10:54 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
'Trumpism' and the Rift Between Belief and Truth - "To some conservatives, “real Americans” and “ordinary folks” are getting a raw deal. But just because it seems that way doesn’t make it so"
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:55 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
When a commentator employs the verb “seem,” they’re giving themselves permission to ignore what “is.” To many Trump supporters, it certainly does “seem” that President Obama isn’t “on America’s side.” After all, fully 59 percent of Trump supporters think he wasn’t born in the United States, according to a May Public Policy Polling survey. And according to a June Quinnipiac poll, 55 percent of Republicans (among Trump supporters, the figure is almost certainly higher) agree with Trump that Obama “may sympathize with terrorist organizations such as ISIS.”The GOP establishment strikes back - "Late in the 2016 primary season, GOP donors and groups look to send a message by declaring open war on several House Freedom Caucus-endorsed candidates."
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:55 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
What's funny is that news outlets like RT call him a sell-out — yes, those exact words — for supporting Hillary. The guy can't catch a break, either way, it seems. Still, he managed to get actual, real progressive policy into the platform, so he has my gratitude even he doesn't have that of others. It'll be up to us to make sure Hillary acts on her side of the bargain after November.
This is one of the things that bugs me. Hillary already had "actual, real progressive policy" in her platform, well before Sanders was a threat. Most of the differences in their platforms were matters of degree, not kind.
posted by peacheater at 10:56 AM on August 15, 2016 [27 favorites]
This is one of the things that bugs me. Hillary already had "actual, real progressive policy" in her platform, well before Sanders was a threat. Most of the differences in their platforms were matters of degree, not kind.
posted by peacheater at 10:56 AM on August 15, 2016 [27 favorites]
How Do You Spell Apparent Fraud? The Clinton Foundation, Shady Accounting and AIDS by Ken Silverstein
This story (from 2015) starts out by naming Bill as a philanderer. Great start! Not biased at all!
It goes on to note that its doubts arise from a lack of disclosure of financial documents. This concern was answered in Dec. 2015 by Charity Navigator: In accordance with our policy for removing charities from the CN Watchlist, Charity Navigator removed the Bill, Hillary & Chelsea Clinton Foundation from the Watchlist in December 2015 because the charity provided publicly accessible information regarding their amended tax Forms for 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013. This information, along with the public memorandum submitted addressing the other issues raised in the Watchlist entry, meets our requirements for removal.
Here is Charity Watch's evaluation (short: A, 88% of money goes to program)
posted by Dashy at 10:58 AM on August 15, 2016 [45 favorites]
This story (from 2015) starts out by naming Bill as a philanderer. Great start! Not biased at all!
It goes on to note that its doubts arise from a lack of disclosure of financial documents. This concern was answered in Dec. 2015 by Charity Navigator: In accordance with our policy for removing charities from the CN Watchlist, Charity Navigator removed the Bill, Hillary & Chelsea Clinton Foundation from the Watchlist in December 2015 because the charity provided publicly accessible information regarding their amended tax Forms for 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013. This information, along with the public memorandum submitted addressing the other issues raised in the Watchlist entry, meets our requirements for removal.
Here is Charity Watch's evaluation (short: A, 88% of money goes to program)
posted by Dashy at 10:58 AM on August 15, 2016 [45 favorites]
Thanks, compartment, for the methadone.
posted by No Robots at 11:00 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by No Robots at 11:00 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm gonna pass on the book where Hillary is pointing a gun at my head too, thx
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:00 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:00 AM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
Biden skips to the end of his speech, because people have been standing a long time and he knows it. He's wrapping up citing Hillary's experience, far above anything Trump or his team have.
posted by cashman at 11:01 AM on August 15, 2016
posted by cashman at 11:01 AM on August 15, 2016
According to Politifact 4% of Donald Trump's statements are actually true.
His scorecard:
True: 4%
Mostly true: 11%
Half true: 15%
Mostly false: 15%
False: 36%
Pants on fire: 19%
For comparison, 50% of Hillary Clinton's statements are rated true or mostly true, 22% are half true, 15% are mostly false, 11% are false, and 2% are pants on fire.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:02 AM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
'Merica: Hillary lied to me 2% of the time! Ugh, that woman. Better take another look at Trump.
#fakebutnotasfakeasidlike
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:04 AM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
#fakebutnotasfakeasidlike
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:04 AM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
This is one of the things that bugs me. Hillary already had "actual, real progressive policy" in her platform, well before Sanders was a threat. Most of the differences in their platforms were matters of degree, not kind.
Sorry, I'm not buying that.
The primaries are over, both Bernie and Clinton won, let it be. Hillary is running against a low-turnout more than she is running against Trump. Now is not the time to re-fight the primaries and alienate the Bernie supporters who have come onboard.
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:07 AM on August 15, 2016 [18 favorites]
Sorry, I'm not buying that.
The primaries are over, both Bernie and Clinton won, let it be. Hillary is running against a low-turnout more than she is running against Trump. Now is not the time to re-fight the primaries and alienate the Bernie supporters who have come onboard.
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:07 AM on August 15, 2016 [18 favorites]
Biden skips to the end of his speech, because people have been standing a long time and he knows it.
"Lemme see... new Camaros aren't as good... yeah, I can skip that... Bang, Zoom, Crazy... Hello was a letdown... nah, I'll save that for October..."
posted by Etrigan at 11:07 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
"Lemme see... new Camaros aren't as good... yeah, I can skip that... Bang, Zoom, Crazy... Hello was a letdown... nah, I'll save that for October..."
posted by Etrigan at 11:07 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Biden skips to the end of his speech, because people have been standing a long time and he knows it. He's wrapping up citing Hillary's experience, far above anything Trump or his team have.
Joe Biden: "I'm testing your stamina"
Donald Trump: "I wanna get the hell out of here! I want to go home!"
There's absolutely no difference between the parties, amirite?! Biden worries about you and Trump just whines about himself.
posted by Talez at 11:11 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Joe Biden: "I'm testing your stamina"
Donald Trump: "I wanna get the hell out of here! I want to go home!"
There's absolutely no difference between the parties, amirite?! Biden worries about you and Trump just whines about himself.
posted by Talez at 11:11 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm gonna pass on the book where Hillary is pointing a gun at my head too, thx
Well, it certainly takes on new meaning after the orange asshole's recent comments, but you're making a mistake by not engaging with smart, experienced left-wing critics of Hillary like Doug Henwood. I hope you're at least engaging with some of them. Everyone should, regardless of their political stripe.
posted by mediareport at 11:12 AM on August 15, 2016
Well, it certainly takes on new meaning after the orange asshole's recent comments, but you're making a mistake by not engaging with smart, experienced left-wing critics of Hillary like Doug Henwood. I hope you're at least engaging with some of them. Everyone should, regardless of their political stripe.
posted by mediareport at 11:12 AM on August 15, 2016
Oh, and for the record Sarah Sole, the woman who painted it, considers herself a strong Hillary supporter.
posted by mediareport at 11:13 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by mediareport at 11:13 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump releases 'media accountability survey'
Some real nice push polling in there:
"If Donald Trump said or did half of the things Hillary Clinton has, the media would effectively end his candidacy." [real]
"We should spend more time and resources holding the mainstream media accountable." [real]
"The RNC was right to drop CNBC as a partner after they failed to fairly moderate the October debate." [real]
"Should we stop beating our current or former spouses?" [fake]
posted by srboisvert at 11:14 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Some real nice push polling in there:
"If Donald Trump said or did half of the things Hillary Clinton has, the media would effectively end his candidacy." [real]
"We should spend more time and resources holding the mainstream media accountable." [real]
"The RNC was right to drop CNBC as a partner after they failed to fairly moderate the October debate." [real]
"Should we stop beating our current or former spouses?" [fake]
posted by srboisvert at 11:14 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Here is Charity Watch's evaluation (short: A, 88% of money goes to program)
For context - 90% of the money going to the program is the rule of thumb I've heard when it comes to "is this a good charity or not".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:17 AM on August 15, 2016
For context - 90% of the money going to the program is the rule of thumb I've heard when it comes to "is this a good charity or not".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:17 AM on August 15, 2016
Sorry, I'm not buying that.
I did not say that there were no differences, or that Clinton's policies did not change at all because of Sanders. I was arguing that her platform was progressive before Sanders arrived on the scene, particularly in its championing of paid family leave, raising the minimum wage, women's rights and reproductive rights and expansion of healthcare access.
posted by peacheater at 11:17 AM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
I did not say that there were no differences, or that Clinton's policies did not change at all because of Sanders. I was arguing that her platform was progressive before Sanders arrived on the scene, particularly in its championing of paid family leave, raising the minimum wage, women's rights and reproductive rights and expansion of healthcare access.
posted by peacheater at 11:17 AM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
Anyway, I don't disagree with burying the hatchet. I just don't like people writing Clinton of as not progressive, just because she doesn't happen to agree exactly with your specific pet policy.
posted by peacheater at 11:18 AM on August 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 11:18 AM on August 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
For context - 90% of the money going to the program is the rule of thumb I've heard when it comes to "is this a good charity or not".
The Clinton Foundation is a little odd, though, in they do direct work themselves and aren't just funding other NGOs (with their own overhead.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:22 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
The Clinton Foundation is a little odd, though, in they do direct work themselves and aren't just funding other NGOs (with their own overhead.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:22 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
flagged as fantastic
Flagged as Captain Fantastic.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:22 AM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
Flagged as Captain Fantastic.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:22 AM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
Well, it certainly takes on new meaning after the orange asshole's recent comments, but you're making a mistake by not engaging with smart, experienced left-wing critics of Hillary like Doug Henwood. I hope you're at least engaging with some of them. Everyone should, regardless of their political stripe.
okay but like, you cited this book as evidence against the Clinton Foundation but you also said haven't read it either
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:23 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
okay but like, you cited this book as evidence against the Clinton Foundation but you also said haven't read it either
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:23 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
On Monday, the Republican nominee solicited his supporters to take a “Mainstream Media Accountability Survey” so he can “have my own poll that shows that the American people disagree with the dishonest media!”
It's gonna be great, the best poll, just terrific.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:24 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's gonna be great, the best poll, just terrific.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:24 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
There's absolutely no difference between the parties, amirite?! Biden worries about you and Trump just whines about himself.
This really says less about the parties and more about the men.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:26 AM on August 15, 2016
This really says less about the parties and more about the men.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:26 AM on August 15, 2016
you cited this book as evidence against the Clinton Foundation but you also said haven't read it either
No, I said Henwood's a good name to look for if you want sharp criticism of Hillary from a left-wing perspective, which is what the comment I replied to was asking for.
The linked article by Ken Silverstein was my attempt at providing evidence about the Clinton Foundation's financial improprieties. Feel free to address the points there instead of blatantly misrepresenting an honest attempt at answering a fellow member's question.
posted by mediareport at 11:27 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
No, I said Henwood's a good name to look for if you want sharp criticism of Hillary from a left-wing perspective, which is what the comment I replied to was asking for.
The linked article by Ken Silverstein was my attempt at providing evidence about the Clinton Foundation's financial improprieties. Feel free to address the points there instead of blatantly misrepresenting an honest attempt at answering a fellow member's question.
posted by mediareport at 11:27 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I did the survey though didn't turn it in.
As it's probably obvious to most here it's not really and actual survey. It's all just 'do you agree with all our talking points about the evil media' yes or no. Plus at the same time it teaches you any points that you might have missed!
posted by Jalliah at 11:28 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
@KailiJoy: Giuliani says in the eight years before Obama took office, there were no successful terrorist attacks in the U.S.
Nope, not a one.
Really, Rudy, you can't think of at least one?
posted by zombieflanders at 11:30 AM on August 15, 2016 [96 favorites]
Nope, not a one.
Really, Rudy, you can't think of at least one?
posted by zombieflanders at 11:30 AM on August 15, 2016 [96 favorites]
Trump speaking now: "L-G..... B-T.... Q (Kewwwwwwww)"
I've never seen anyone so ill at ease with a teleprompter.
posted by modernnomad at 11:31 AM on August 15, 2016
I've never seen anyone so ill at ease with a teleprompter.
posted by modernnomad at 11:31 AM on August 15, 2016
It's gonna be great, the best poll, just terrific.
That was fun, until I got to the "Enter your information" bit and nopped out of there.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:31 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
That was fun, until I got to the "Enter your information" bit and nopped out of there.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:31 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oops, that first sentence should end, "...which is what I felt was the deeper question the comment I replied to was asking for." But I then provided a very obvious link to the direct question as well. Again, it's been a while since I read about this but I'll be happy to look for more recent articles if folks are genuinely interested in engaging with the many criticisms out there of how the Clinton Foundation structured its business.
posted by mediareport at 11:31 AM on August 15, 2016
posted by mediareport at 11:31 AM on August 15, 2016
Trump speaking now: "L-G..... B-T.... Q (Kewwwwwwww)"
I've never seen anyone so ill at ease with a teleprompter.
It's a dog whistle.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:32 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
I've never seen anyone so ill at ease with a teleprompter.
It's a dog whistle.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:32 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Anyway, a while ago Henwood pointed to this article from last October, How Do You Spell Apparent Fraud? The Clinton Foundation, Shady Accounting and AIDS by Ken Silverstein, one of the founders of the left-wing magazine Counterpunch, at the crowdfunded journalism site Byline.com. It surveys the financial misconduct allegations against the Clinton Foundation and provides some decent links (many, yes, to right-leaning news outlets and journalists who publish at right-wing sites).
Doug, Ken, I'd be careful. That's how it started with Hitchens and the next thing he knew he was cheering for George Bush.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:33 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Doug, Ken, I'd be careful. That's how it started with Hitchens and the next thing he knew he was cheering for George Bush.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:33 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
WTF, Rudy? I always thought that "NEVER FORGET" was kind of a dumb slogan but clearly not...
posted by acidic at 11:33 AM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by acidic at 11:33 AM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
I find it interesting that Trump is "surveying" with a negative push poll about the media as well as punishing prominent media outlets by barring them from covering him, as well as threatening to add more to the list. He could not make it more clear what a determined foe of the First Amendment he is.
I also find it interesting that HRC, who is not running to take an oath to support the very document (the Constitution) she clearly intends to dismantle, is the one who gets all the unfavorable MSM stories about giving them a cold shoulder. (This was also a complaint made about Obama as a candidate. It made more sense then as McCain was indeed very media friendly) To me, infrequent press conferences are not that big a deal when the other candidate is giving every indication he'd abolish a free press.
posted by bearwife at 11:34 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I also find it interesting that HRC, who is not running to take an oath to support the very document (the Constitution) she clearly intends to dismantle, is the one who gets all the unfavorable MSM stories about giving them a cold shoulder. (This was also a complaint made about Obama as a candidate. It made more sense then as McCain was indeed very media friendly) To me, infrequent press conferences are not that big a deal when the other candidate is giving every indication he'd abolish a free press.
posted by bearwife at 11:34 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
>Trump speaking now: "L-G..... B-T.... Q (Kewwwwwwww)"
>I've never seen anyone so ill at ease with a teleprompter.
It's a dog whistle.
Huh, that's exactly the same awkward way he said it in his convention speech (I think that was it?) -- I mocked him for it at the time, as I recall.
what is it a dog whistle for? That we queers... have awkward acronyms? Weak.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:39 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
>I've never seen anyone so ill at ease with a teleprompter.
It's a dog whistle.
Huh, that's exactly the same awkward way he said it in his convention speech (I think that was it?) -- I mocked him for it at the time, as I recall.
what is it a dog whistle for? That we queers... have awkward acronyms? Weak.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:39 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's painfully obvious when he's reading someone else's words.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:40 AM on August 15, 2016
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:40 AM on August 15, 2016
> what is it a dog whistle for? That we queers... have awkward acronyms? Weak.
It's a dog whistle for people who would like to believe there was a time when everyone was straight and we didn't need all these silly acronyms.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:41 AM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
It's a dog whistle for people who would like to believe there was a time when everyone was straight and we didn't need all these silly acronyms.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:41 AM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
Wait 'til he gets to QUILTBAG!
posted by adamgreenfield at 11:45 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by adamgreenfield at 11:45 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
@KailiJoy: Giuliani says in the eight years before Obama took office, there were no successful terrorist attacks in the U.S.
I sincerely hope his future obituary notes that he spent years publicly pissing on the graves of the 2,507 civilians, 343 firefighters, 72 law enforcement officers and 55 military personnel who lost their lives on 9/11.
posted by zarq at 11:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
I sincerely hope his future obituary notes that he spent years publicly pissing on the graves of the 2,507 civilians, 343 firefighters, 72 law enforcement officers and 55 military personnel who lost their lives on 9/11.
posted by zarq at 11:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
I find it interesting that Trump is "surveying" with a negative push poll about the media
And it makes it feel even more like the campaign's in a death spiral. Every time he whines about how he's losing "because of the corrupt media" he strengthens the "he's losing" message.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
And it makes it feel even more like the campaign's in a death spiral. Every time he whines about how he's losing "because of the corrupt media" he strengthens the "he's losing" message.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Mother Jones just retweeted Evan McMullin and I feel like I spotted a Ditto in the wild.
posted by winna at 11:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by winna at 11:46 AM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
So we're relitigating Trump's Iraq record and putting it on the Democrats. Got it.
posted by Talez at 11:48 AM on August 15, 2016
posted by Talez at 11:48 AM on August 15, 2016
> For what it's worth, Sanders did just have an op-ed in the LA Times about Hillary on August 5th, and his kick off for his new "Our Revolution" thing is on August 25th, where he says he'll be pushing for a progressive agenda and helping like minded candidates get elected, so I wouldn't write him off as not helping Clinton get elected yet.
Op-Ed Bernie Sanders: I support Hillary Clinton. So should everyone who voted for me
Bernie Sanders’s Plan for Perpetual Revolution: The senator has launched a new organization, Our Revolution. If he takes out Debbie Wasserman Schultz in the Aug. 30 primary, he has muscle. But what if his guy loses?
posted by homunculus at 11:48 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Op-Ed Bernie Sanders: I support Hillary Clinton. So should everyone who voted for me
Bernie Sanders’s Plan for Perpetual Revolution: The senator has launched a new organization, Our Revolution. If he takes out Debbie Wasserman Schultz in the Aug. 30 primary, he has muscle. But what if his guy loses?
posted by homunculus at 11:48 AM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Wait 'til he gets to QUILTBAG!
I just got there myself. I thought it was an eighties era insult at first.
Still, beats LGBTTQQIAAP.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:48 AM on August 15, 2016
I just got there myself. I thought it was an eighties era insult at first.
Still, beats LGBTTQQIAAP.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:48 AM on August 15, 2016
Harry Reid's response to Trump's proposed immigration tests:
Since Donald Trump wants to impose new tests on immigrants, he should take the one test every immigrant has to pass to become a United States citizen. He would almost certainly fail, given his general ignorance and weak grasp of basic facts about American history, principles and functioning of our government. The fact is, Donald Trump is nothing more than a spoiled, unpatriotic drain on society who has earned nothing and helped no one...
Unlike immigrants, Donald Trump represents none of the qualities that make America great. Immigrants work hard to get here and become Americans, while Trump inherited everything from his father and works hardest at Tweeting insults and ripping off hard-working people with two-bit scams. Immigrants renounce all loyalty to foreign interests, while Trump plays footsie with Putin and invites the Russian government to launch cyberattacks against our country. Immigrants pledge to defend America against all enemies foreign and domestic, while Trump insults Gold Star parents like Ghazala and Khazir Khan, and war heroes like my friend Senator John McCain. Immigrants pledge true faith, while Trump lies about giving to charity. Immigrants work hard to build better lives for their families, while Trump was born on third and thinks he hit a triple. Immigrants work hard to learn American history and civics, while Trump appears ignorant of basic facts about this country. Indeed, the naturalization test is just one part of the process immigrants undergo to become citizens, but Trump would almost certainly fail that test. Immigrants make America great. Trump makes America small, petty and mean.
posted by acidic at 11:51 AM on August 15, 2016 [108 favorites]
Since Donald Trump wants to impose new tests on immigrants, he should take the one test every immigrant has to pass to become a United States citizen. He would almost certainly fail, given his general ignorance and weak grasp of basic facts about American history, principles and functioning of our government. The fact is, Donald Trump is nothing more than a spoiled, unpatriotic drain on society who has earned nothing and helped no one...
Unlike immigrants, Donald Trump represents none of the qualities that make America great. Immigrants work hard to get here and become Americans, while Trump inherited everything from his father and works hardest at Tweeting insults and ripping off hard-working people with two-bit scams. Immigrants renounce all loyalty to foreign interests, while Trump plays footsie with Putin and invites the Russian government to launch cyberattacks against our country. Immigrants pledge to defend America against all enemies foreign and domestic, while Trump insults Gold Star parents like Ghazala and Khazir Khan, and war heroes like my friend Senator John McCain. Immigrants pledge true faith, while Trump lies about giving to charity. Immigrants work hard to build better lives for their families, while Trump was born on third and thinks he hit a triple. Immigrants work hard to learn American history and civics, while Trump appears ignorant of basic facts about this country. Indeed, the naturalization test is just one part of the process immigrants undergo to become citizens, but Trump would almost certainly fail that test. Immigrants make America great. Trump makes America small, petty and mean.
posted by acidic at 11:51 AM on August 15, 2016 [108 favorites]
Donald Trump literally advocates us staying in Iraq and Iraq becoming a vassal state to the United States.
Also, does he moan "KEEP THE OIL!" during sex or something? Holy shit!
posted by Talez at 11:51 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also, does he moan "KEEP THE OIL!" during sex or something? Holy shit!
posted by Talez at 11:51 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm on the Trump mailing list for some reason and they just sent me this strategy survey. I'm so excited that they're asking for my advice!
posted by theodolite at 11:52 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 11:52 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Here comes Trump pushing "Hey, let's work with RUSSIA you guys!"
posted by cashman at 11:53 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by cashman at 11:53 AM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
If you told most Americans they are misusing "literally," their response would be to say "I could care less." A phrase, which, like their misuse of "literally," literally means the opposite of what they're trying to say.
Irregardless, I'm nonplussed.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:53 AM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
Irregardless, I'm nonplussed.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:53 AM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
So in the old days to the victor belong the spoils. In the old days the winner would enslave the loser. Should we bring that back?
posted by Talez at 11:53 AM on August 15, 2016
posted by Talez at 11:53 AM on August 15, 2016
LGBOYAANISQATSI?
posted by J.K. Seazer at 11:54 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by J.K. Seazer at 11:54 AM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
Um.
So, Trump has turned his donation page into sort of a....raffle-type thing. Is this....legal?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:54 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
So, Trump has turned his donation page into sort of a....raffle-type thing. Is this....legal?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:54 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Irregardless, I'm nonplussed.
lol, you totally bemused me.
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:55 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
lol, you totally bemused me.
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:55 AM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
He's literally suggesting making an islamic HUAC into a worldwide pact.
Is he fucking insane?
posted by Talez at 11:55 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Is he fucking insane?
posted by Talez at 11:55 AM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Omg Reid. Some reporters should just start asking Trump questions from the citizenship test whenever presented with the opportunity. Normally I'd think that is unethical journalism but Trump kind of opens up to it with the combination of being anti-immigrant and routinely showing a lack of basic knowledge about how the country works.
posted by R343L at 11:55 AM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by R343L at 11:55 AM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
Oh for fucks sake. I decide to take the plunge, turn on the livestream and first thing I hear is 33,000 emails...
posted by Jalliah at 11:56 AM on August 15, 2016
posted by Jalliah at 11:56 AM on August 15, 2016
So in the old days to the victor belong the spoils. In the old days the winner would enslave the loser. Should we bring that back?
That depends. If Clinton could force Trump to permanently abandon Twitter and spend the rest of his life working for Habitat for Humanity, it might be worth considering.
posted by zarq at 11:56 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
That depends. If Clinton could force Trump to permanently abandon Twitter and spend the rest of his life working for Habitat for Humanity, it might be worth considering.
posted by zarq at 11:56 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
So, Trump has turned his donation page into sort of a....raffle-type thing. Is this....legal?
I half expected that to be "Donate, and you can win a free trip to RUSSIA!"
posted by cashman at 11:56 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I half expected that to be "Donate, and you can win a free trip to RUSSIA!"
posted by cashman at 11:56 AM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
That depends. If Clinton could force Trump to permanently abandon Twitter and spend the rest of his life working for Habitat for Humanity, it might be worth considering.
Do you hate the homeless or something?
posted by splen at 11:57 AM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
Do you hate the homeless or something?
posted by splen at 11:57 AM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
Giuliani says in the eight years before Obama took office, there were no successful terrorist attacks in the U.S.
George W. Bush, November 3, 2001:
As all Americans know, recent weeks have brought a second wave of terrorist attacks upon our country: deadly anthrax spores sent through the U.S. mail.July 4, 2002:
On July 4, 2002, a lone gunman opened fire at the airline ticket counter of El Al, Israel's national airline, at Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, California. Two people were killed and four others were injured before the gunman was fatally shot by a security guard after also being wounded by him.And so on.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:58 AM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
I don't know why I just don't believe that he gives one whit about gays, women etc who are oppressed under Islamic terrorist ideology blah blah.
posted by Jalliah at 11:59 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Jalliah at 11:59 AM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
So, Trump has turned his donation page into sort of a....raffle-type thing. Is this....legal?
I dunno, but Clinton does the same thing. The latest one I saw is to meet Tim Kaine.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:00 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Do you hate the homeless or something?
Building simple, safe and affordable housing for people in need with no financial return seems like appropriate penance for a former slumlord.
posted by zarq at 12:00 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Building simple, safe and affordable housing for people in need with no financial return seems like appropriate penance for a former slumlord.
posted by zarq at 12:00 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Oh we're onto the screening procedures part. Names both 1st Gen AND their children as problems.
posted by Jalliah at 12:00 PM on August 15, 2016
posted by Jalliah at 12:00 PM on August 15, 2016
So Trump will be a friend to the LGBT? This is the same asshole that showed up to “Rediscovering God in America”?
This is why I worry. This Trump is wrong but sounds reasonable. He sounds thoughtful and serious. The American electorate will swallow it hook, line, and sinker if we're not careful.
posted by Talez at 12:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
This is why I worry. This Trump is wrong but sounds reasonable. He sounds thoughtful and serious. The American electorate will swallow it hook, line, and sinker if we're not careful.
posted by Talez at 12:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
So, Trump has turned his donation page into sort of a....raffle-type thing. Is this....legal?
That picture of Eric really doesn't inspire any "yes I would like to have lunch with this man" feelings.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 12:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
That picture of Eric really doesn't inspire any "yes I would like to have lunch with this man" feelings.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 12:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
Favorite this for a chance to win a free iPad.
A very small chance.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:02 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
A very small chance.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:02 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
Extreme vetting= What Trump calls new ideological test based on what was done during the cold war.
posted by Jalliah at 12:02 PM on August 15, 2016
posted by Jalliah at 12:02 PM on August 15, 2016
I think even the most cursory glance at the Clinton Foundation's finances reveals good evidence of corruption, illegal accounting practices, cronyism, etc.
Typical cavalier use of the word "corruption" in the absence of evidence for anything Clinton.
For example, as proof of corruption in the selection of their accountant the article screams that "I’m not making this up – PricewaterhouseCoopers, whose previous clients included Enron." Actually it was Arthur Andersen that was Enron accountant but whatever.
This has to be the stupidest argument I've ever seen. But it is typical of the baseless innuendo found in the article. This is Drudge Report stuff and you should be embarrassed to even post it here.
posted by JackFlash at 12:02 PM on August 15, 2016 [52 favorites]
Typical cavalier use of the word "corruption" in the absence of evidence for anything Clinton.
For example, as proof of corruption in the selection of their accountant the article screams that "I’m not making this up – PricewaterhouseCoopers, whose previous clients included Enron." Actually it was Arthur Andersen that was Enron accountant but whatever.
This has to be the stupidest argument I've ever seen. But it is typical of the baseless innuendo found in the article. This is Drudge Report stuff and you should be embarrassed to even post it here.
posted by JackFlash at 12:02 PM on August 15, 2016 [52 favorites]
zombieflanders: @KailiJoy: Giuliani says in the eight years before Obama took office, there were no successful terrorist attacks in the U.S.
Nope, not a one.
Really, Rudy, you can't think of at least one?
Jeb's "brother kept us safe [sic]", right? That must be it.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:02 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Nope, not a one.
Really, Rudy, you can't think of at least one?
Jeb's "brother kept us safe [sic]", right? That must be it.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:02 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
And that it for me. I can't listen to this anymore. Makes me physically feel ill and want to cry at the thought that enough people could buy this schitck.
posted by Jalliah at 12:04 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Jalliah at 12:04 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Building simple, safe and affordable housing for people in need with no financial return seems like appropriate penance for a former slumlord.
He has to actually build it, though. Like, I don't mean "being the lead contractor for a pro-bono affordable housing project" or whatever.
He has to be at the site, with a hard hat and a hammer and two-by-fours.
Building walls.
Four walls.
For Latinos to live in.
sure, other groups need affordable housing as well. But the irony doesn't work as well then.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:05 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
He has to actually build it, though. Like, I don't mean "being the lead contractor for a pro-bono affordable housing project" or whatever.
He has to be at the site, with a hard hat and a hammer and two-by-fours.
Building walls.
Four walls.
For Latinos to live in.
sure, other groups need affordable housing as well. But the irony doesn't work as well then.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:05 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Irregardless, I'm nonplussed.
Yes, but you must admit it begs a few questions, amirite?
posted by madamjujujive at 12:05 PM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
Yes, but you must admit it begs a few questions, amirite?
posted by madamjujujive at 12:05 PM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
@AriMelber: Trump says 9/11, Boston, Orlando attacks all involve "immigrants or children of immigrants."
That huge category is 37% of US residents.
What Melber didn't say is that this would include Trump and both of his parents.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:06 PM on August 15, 2016 [40 favorites]
That huge category is 37% of US residents.
What Melber didn't say is that this would include Trump and both of his parents.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:06 PM on August 15, 2016 [40 favorites]
Jalliah: We're waiting for the riff during the encore.
posted by DanSachs at 12:06 PM on August 15, 2016
posted by DanSachs at 12:06 PM on August 15, 2016
Oh, and all of his children except for Tiffany, the one he never lets speak in public.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:07 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 12:07 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
This could be your chance to tour Trump campaign headquarters located in Trump Tower and meet Eric Trump for lunch to discuss the campaign.
Things I Would Ask Eric Trump If We Were Having Lunch
1. What the fuck
2. Like seriously what the fuck
3. Do you have frank talks with your dad about how fucked this all is or do you have to like pretend he's a Smart Competent Paterfamilias at all times
4. Boy how much does that suck
5. Do you kill majestic wild animals because you hurt inside
6. Yeah well do you think that makes it okay? It doesn't
7. Can we record a little "sweep the leg!" bit for my Twitter? I think it'll totally blow up
8. Actually were you even allowed to watch 80s movies where the rich asshole kids are the bad guys
9. Oh wait did your dad have somebody re-edit those movies so the rich asshole kids were the good guys like when feminist dads read Lord of the Rings to their daughters and make Merry and Pippin girl hobbits?
10. Can I have your fries
11. Eric did you know I named a Raticate in Pokémon Go after you, do you want to see him [real]
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:08 PM on August 15, 2016 [93 favorites]
Things I Would Ask Eric Trump If We Were Having Lunch
1. What the fuck
2. Like seriously what the fuck
3. Do you have frank talks with your dad about how fucked this all is or do you have to like pretend he's a Smart Competent Paterfamilias at all times
4. Boy how much does that suck
5. Do you kill majestic wild animals because you hurt inside
6. Yeah well do you think that makes it okay? It doesn't
7. Can we record a little "sweep the leg!" bit for my Twitter? I think it'll totally blow up
8. Actually were you even allowed to watch 80s movies where the rich asshole kids are the bad guys
9. Oh wait did your dad have somebody re-edit those movies so the rich asshole kids were the good guys like when feminist dads read Lord of the Rings to their daughters and make Merry and Pippin girl hobbits?
10. Can I have your fries
11. Eric did you know I named a Raticate in Pokémon Go after you, do you want to see him [real]
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:08 PM on August 15, 2016 [93 favorites]
He has to be at the site, with a hard hat and a hammer and two-by-fours.
Building walls.
Four walls.
For Latinos to live in.
Exactly.
posted by zarq at 12:08 PM on August 15, 2016
Building walls.
Four walls.
For Latinos to live in.
Exactly.
posted by zarq at 12:08 PM on August 15, 2016
Building simple, safe and affordable housing for people in need with no financial return seems like appropriate penance for a former slumlord.
If I had any confidence he could actually do that, it'd be fantastic. I was envisioning reasonable, two bedroom houses being plastered with 'TRUMP' neon lights and the such.
posted by splen at 12:08 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Jeb's 'brother kept us safe [sic]', right? That must be it.
Jesus Christ the "he kept us safe" thing really infuriates me. Jeb! Bush literally says "You remember the rubble?" as proof. Oh, I remember the rubble. It was left by the attacks his brother DID NOT KEEP US SAFE FROM.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:08 PM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
Jalliah: We're waiting for the riff during the encore.
I'll come back in a bit and check in. I really shouldn't have turned on the stream. I knew myself better. Gonna go play video game for a while and clear out the grr.
posted by Jalliah at 12:09 PM on August 15, 2016
I'll come back in a bit and check in. I really shouldn't have turned on the stream. I knew myself better. Gonna go play video game for a while and clear out the grr.
posted by Jalliah at 12:09 PM on August 15, 2016
Did he seriously say he's going to teach the American people how to spy on their Muslim neighbours?
posted by Talez at 12:11 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Talez at 12:11 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I dunno, but Clinton does the same thing. The latest one I saw is to meet Tim Kaine.
So did Obama. Call me shallow, but I am still bitter that I did not win the dinner with Barrack & George Clooney. That was my idea of a dream date, right there.
posted by madamjujujive at 12:12 PM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
So did Obama. Call me shallow, but I am still bitter that I did not win the dinner with Barrack & George Clooney. That was my idea of a dream date, right there.
posted by madamjujujive at 12:12 PM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
So, Trump has turned his donation page into sort of a....raffle-type thing. Is this....legal?
To be legal, raffles and giveaways must have a "you do not need to pay money to enter" option.
Why, all of the people who hate Trump could flood the website, not only tieing up their machinery but possibly getting the iPad for free.
I'd suggest anyone considering this set up a throwaway email address of course.
posted by msalt at 12:12 PM on August 15, 2016
To be legal, raffles and giveaways must have a "you do not need to pay money to enter" option.
Why, all of the people who hate Trump could flood the website, not only tieing up their machinery but possibly getting the iPad for free.
I'd suggest anyone considering this set up a throwaway email address of course.
posted by msalt at 12:12 PM on August 15, 2016
Favorite this for a chance to win a free iPad.
A very small chance.
A very small chance, huh? Sad. Favorite this if you want a very good chance, the best chance*. There's no better chance out there. You people know I'm very good at chances, believe me. I've had a very long and successful posting career. Nobody is better at posting than me. Certainly not Little ChurchHatesTucker. Pathetic.
*Note: By favoriting this post you agree to favorite all subsequent posts by leotrotsky on a monthly basis in perpetuity.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:13 PM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
A very small chance.
A very small chance, huh? Sad. Favorite this if you want a very good chance, the best chance*. There's no better chance out there. You people know I'm very good at chances, believe me. I've had a very long and successful posting career. Nobody is better at posting than me. Certainly not Little ChurchHatesTucker. Pathetic.
*Note: By favoriting this post you agree to favorite all subsequent posts by leotrotsky on a monthly basis in perpetuity.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:13 PM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
sallybrown: can you imagine how INSANELY expensive it would be to run something like that? Not just administering the paperwork, but hiring people to essentially social media stalk on a person by person basis?
DHS/CBP is seeking to ask foreigners who fill out an I-94 form at the border to list their social media accounts [NYT]
This implies that they've done at least a budget/feasibility study, and have a pretty good idea which contracting firm they'd hire to do the stalking.
posted by toxic at 12:17 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
DHS/CBP is seeking to ask foreigners who fill out an I-94 form at the border to list their social media accounts [NYT]
This implies that they've done at least a budget/feasibility study, and have a pretty good idea which contracting firm they'd hire to do the stalking.
posted by toxic at 12:17 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
The problem with Trump building houses for Habitat is that Trump doesn't know how to build anything. He's a real estate developer, he's not a carpenter. He's not even a general contractor. He knows how to call people who call people who build things. He's useless except as someone who collects the profit at the end from the labor of others.
posted by Sequence at 12:17 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Sequence at 12:17 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Biden and HRC look great up there today.
I was watching Biden's speech...I think that's what Trump believes he sounds like when he's spouting off on stage: smart, populist, witty, sincere and just a little bit rough around the edges.
posted by PlusDistance at 12:18 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
I was watching Biden's speech...I think that's what Trump believes he sounds like when he's spouting off on stage: smart, populist, witty, sincere and just a little bit rough around the edges.
posted by PlusDistance at 12:18 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
I've had a very long and successful posting career. Nobody is better at posting than me. Certainly not Little ChurchHatesTucker.
4333 comments? Low energy. Sad.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:19 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
4333 comments? Low energy. Sad.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:19 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
I had shivers down my spine watching that because it felt like bringing back most of HUAC, mixing it with fascism and driving it down the country's throat with doublespeak and a shit-eating grin.
posted by Talez at 12:21 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Talez at 12:21 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
[Breitbart] ran the [poll] story anyway? Or the poll was available publicly for other reasons?
They made a big deal about how they were going to do this in advance, before they knew the results, and my guess is that it wouldn't have been too shameless even for Breitbart to bury the results. Which is not to say they didn't try to spin the results:
They made a big deal about how they were going to do this in advance, before they knew the results, and my guess is that it wouldn't have been too shameless even for Breitbart to bury the results. Which is not to say they didn't try to spin the results:
"Kaplan said it is normal for third-party candidates to lose support as the general election gets closer. With Johnson and Stein pulling 12 percent and 7 percent undecided, there are still voters sloshing around — the question is whether they swing to Clinton or Trump,” he said. There is no incumbent, but Clinton is the status quo. It is common for the undecideds to break for the challenger, which would be Trump, the more she clings to Obama,”posted by msalt at 12:25 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
...
"Trump is gathering support from communities that have been traditionally solid for Democrats. In 2012, Obama gathered 93 percent of 67 percent African-American turnout, but Clinton has support from 80 percent of black voters, with Trump’s 11 percent almost doubling Romney’s 6 percent. In 2012, the black vote was the margin of victory for Obama in seven states for a total of 112 of his 332 electoral vote total. Romney won 206 electoral votes."
Hillary's campaign also has a "donate to win" thing going on - the prize is "hang out with Tim Kaine," and the "no money needed to win" is clearly marked (albeit below the scroll for most of us): Thank you for entering to hang out with Tim Kaine on the campaign trail -- chip in to be automatically entered again!
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:27 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
No purchase, payment, contribution, signing up to receive text messages, or signing up to volunteer is necessary to win, and will not improve chances of winning.Can we find out if Trump's raffle-thing is a direct reaction to Hillary's? (I've entered; I'd love a chance to talk with Kaine directly.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:27 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Re the Clinton Foundation, here's a good FactCheck article that explains how the "only spends 6% on charity" thing is false, as well as how claims that Charity Navigator has placed the foundation on a watch list are also false.
Basically, the short answer is that, because the Clinton Foundation is a public charity, not a foundation (in that it actually DOES charity instead of giving TO charities), many conclusions about its model and accounting that are based on what true charitable foundations do just don't apply.
Whether the Clinton Foundation effectively uses its funds is another matter -- they may be inefficient money wasters after all. But you can't determine that from their tax filings.
posted by devinemissk at 12:28 PM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
Basically, the short answer is that, because the Clinton Foundation is a public charity, not a foundation (in that it actually DOES charity instead of giving TO charities), many conclusions about its model and accounting that are based on what true charitable foundations do just don't apply.
Whether the Clinton Foundation effectively uses its funds is another matter -- they may be inefficient money wasters after all. But you can't determine that from their tax filings.
posted by devinemissk at 12:28 PM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
>> I've had a very long and successful posting career. Nobody is better at posting than me. Certainly not Little ChurchHatesTucker.
> 4333 comments? Low energy. Sad.
everyone knows total comments isn't a useful metric. comments/favorites ratio is where it's at.
comments/favorite ratio is the OPS of metafilter.
okay really the best metric is favorites above replacement mefite, but that's a pain to calculate.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:29 PM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
> 4333 comments? Low energy. Sad.
everyone knows total comments isn't a useful metric. comments/favorites ratio is where it's at.
comments/favorite ratio is the OPS of metafilter.
okay really the best metric is favorites above replacement mefite, but that's a pain to calculate.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:29 PM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
If they're finding 11% support for Trump from black voters, that would mean other polls are undercounting that segment of Trump supporters by more than 95 percent.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:29 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:29 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
that would mean other polls are undercounting that segment of Trump supporters by more than 95 percent.
Because the other polls are LOSERS. Of course they underperform by 95%! Sad!
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 12:32 PM on August 15, 2016
Because the other polls are LOSERS. Of course they underperform by 95%! Sad!
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 12:32 PM on August 15, 2016
Sanders is supporting HRC.
I hope so. I mean, I still get his emails because of contributions I made to his campaign earlier in the year and the only woman I've seen him mention is Zephyr Teachout (progressive running for Congress in NY who challenged Mario Cuomo a couple years ago in the Democratic gubernatorial primary). Oh, wait, two women mentioned - he had an ANTI Debbie Wasserman Schultz email too. [real]
posted by aught at 12:34 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I hope so. I mean, I still get his emails because of contributions I made to his campaign earlier in the year and the only woman I've seen him mention is Zephyr Teachout (progressive running for Congress in NY who challenged Mario Cuomo a couple years ago in the Democratic gubernatorial primary). Oh, wait, two women mentioned - he had an ANTI Debbie Wasserman Schultz email too. [real]
posted by aught at 12:34 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
This new WaPo piece on General Michael Flynn (by Dana Priest and Greg Miller) is worth a read. Dude comes across as fucking dangerous.
Secret Life of Gravy called Flynn "Strangelovian" above, but it goes beyond that.
posted by spitbull at 12:36 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Secret Life of Gravy called Flynn "Strangelovian" above, but it goes beyond that.
posted by spitbull at 12:36 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
I've had a very long and successful posting career. Nobody is better at posting than me. Certainly not Little ChurchHatesTucker.
4333 comments? Low energy. Sad.
15103 favorites? The worst. Terrible.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:37 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
4333 comments? Low energy. Sad.
15103 favorites? The worst. Terrible.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:37 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
everyone knows total comments isn't a useful metric.
Indeed, if total number of comments is the indicator, I'm much more of a Mefi powerhouse and much less of a snarking one-liner idiot than I previously thought.
comments/favorites ratio is where it's at.
I love this essentially pointless math exercise and endorse it completely so long as we never actually generate Mefi C/F Ratios for ignoble purposes. I just love the idea of statistics, especially demonstrably meaningless ones.
okay really the best metric is favorites above replacement mefite, but that's a pain to calculate.
Oh God, how would that even work?
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:37 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Indeed, if total number of comments is the indicator, I'm much more of a Mefi powerhouse and much less of a snarking one-liner idiot than I previously thought.
comments/favorites ratio is where it's at.
I love this essentially pointless math exercise and endorse it completely so long as we never actually generate Mefi C/F Ratios for ignoble purposes. I just love the idea of statistics, especially demonstrably meaningless ones.
okay really the best metric is favorites above replacement mefite, but that's a pain to calculate.
Oh God, how would that even work?
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:37 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
I love this essentially pointless math exercise and endorse it completely so long as we never actually generate Mefi C/F Ratios for ignoble purposes.
It's a hidden stat, like IV
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:39 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
It's a hidden stat, like IV
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:39 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
The problem with Trump building houses for Habitat is that Trump doesn't know how to build anything. He's a real estate developer, he's not a carpenter. He's not even a general contractor. He knows how to call people who call people who build things. He's useless except as someone who collects the profit at the end from the labor of others.
Y'all do realize my initial comment was tongue-in-cheek, yes? I'm not actually advocating that Clinton enslave Trump if she wins. :)
Anyway, Habitat for Humanity volunteers receive on-site training in construction. They don't actually need to have prior experience to be put to work.
posted by zarq at 12:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Y'all do realize my initial comment was tongue-in-cheek, yes? I'm not actually advocating that Clinton enslave Trump if she wins. :)
Anyway, Habitat for Humanity volunteers receive on-site training in construction. They don't actually need to have prior experience to be put to work.
posted by zarq at 12:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
The original (or if not original, the other one I saw) Hillary thing was going to see Hamilton with her. I am jealous of whoever won.
On the side note of comments, what's a good ratio of favorites given to favorites received?
posted by Hactar at 12:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
On the side note of comments, what's a good ratio of favorites given to favorites received?
posted by Hactar at 12:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm on the Trump mailing list for some reason and they just sent me this strategy survey. I'm so excited that they're asking for my advice!
posted by theodolite at 2:52 PM
Man is that survey something. All the questions are to be answered from Strongly Agree to strongly disagree.
18. Our next president must roll back regulations that have forced companies to relocate overseas.
21. Political correctness has gone too far. It now threatens our national security.
23. We must end government regulations that have cost Americans jobs in states like Pennsylvania, Kentucky, and West Virginia.
24. Obama’s executive orders must be rolled back on Trump’s first day in office.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:41 PM on August 15, 2016
posted by theodolite at 2:52 PM
Man is that survey something. All the questions are to be answered from Strongly Agree to strongly disagree.
18. Our next president must roll back regulations that have forced companies to relocate overseas.
21. Political correctness has gone too far. It now threatens our national security.
23. We must end government regulations that have cost Americans jobs in states like Pennsylvania, Kentucky, and West Virginia.
24. Obama’s executive orders must be rolled back on Trump’s first day in office.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:41 PM on August 15, 2016
Whether the Clinton Foundation effectively uses its funds is another matter -- they may be inefficient money wasters after all.
And that is always a valid and legitimate discussion for any large charity. People argue all the time about how the Gates Foundation spends their money, which causes they choose to support and so forth. It makes for an interesting discussion.
But the article mediareport cites makes the baseless accusation of "corruption." Specifically tossing out the scary legalism "inurement." That is charge used when televangists buy themselves private jets, mansions and fleets of Rolls Royces.
There is exactly zero evidence that the Clintons are stealing from their charity. Everyone has seen their tax reports. They have seen their financial asset disclosures filed with the FEC. The article even goes on to accuse Chelsea of corruption even though you can see from the Foundation's financial disclosure that she works 35 hours per week and collects exactly zero salary. And why would she steal from the foundation. She has a wealthy husband. She can afford to do charity work full time for free.
This is the same garbage as the Whitewater charges of corruption. Exactly nothing. But that is the Clinton rules for you and supposedly intelligent people still fall for it.
posted by JackFlash at 12:43 PM on August 15, 2016 [47 favorites]
And that is always a valid and legitimate discussion for any large charity. People argue all the time about how the Gates Foundation spends their money, which causes they choose to support and so forth. It makes for an interesting discussion.
But the article mediareport cites makes the baseless accusation of "corruption." Specifically tossing out the scary legalism "inurement." That is charge used when televangists buy themselves private jets, mansions and fleets of Rolls Royces.
There is exactly zero evidence that the Clintons are stealing from their charity. Everyone has seen their tax reports. They have seen their financial asset disclosures filed with the FEC. The article even goes on to accuse Chelsea of corruption even though you can see from the Foundation's financial disclosure that she works 35 hours per week and collects exactly zero salary. And why would she steal from the foundation. She has a wealthy husband. She can afford to do charity work full time for free.
This is the same garbage as the Whitewater charges of corruption. Exactly nothing. But that is the Clinton rules for you and supposedly intelligent people still fall for it.
posted by JackFlash at 12:43 PM on August 15, 2016 [47 favorites]
Pointless entertainment:
Source code for Clinton's "Meet Tim Kaine" raffle includes a cute ascii Arrow-H and the URL to a "looking to hire coders" page, as well as standard keyword metadata in the head tag.
Source code for Trump's "Meet Eric Trump" raffle contains... no head info whatsoever. Oh, it's got some meta tags and other info; they're just shoved between the end of the "title" tag and the start of the "body" tag rather than being included in the "head" section.
(I tried linking to the source code pages; it wouldn't let me.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:43 PM on August 15, 2016 [32 favorites]
Source code for Clinton's "Meet Tim Kaine" raffle includes a cute ascii Arrow-H and the URL to a "looking to hire coders" page, as well as standard keyword metadata in the head tag.
Source code for Trump's "Meet Eric Trump" raffle contains... no head info whatsoever. Oh, it's got some meta tags and other info; they're just shoved between the end of the "title" tag and the start of the "body" tag rather than being included in the "head" section.
(I tried linking to the source code pages; it wouldn't let me.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:43 PM on August 15, 2016 [32 favorites]
good ratio of favorites given to favorites received
Well to be fair it should probably be within a pretty close 1:1 ratio
*checks*
ooh i'm at 0.422
this is why i never hit my daily favorites thingy that everyone was complaining about
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:44 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well to be fair it should probably be within a pretty close 1:1 ratio
*checks*
ooh i'm at 0.422
this is why i never hit my daily favorites thingy that everyone was complaining about
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:44 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Source code for Trump's "Meet Eric Trump" raffle contains... no head info whatsoever. Oh, it's got some meta tags and other info; they're just shoved between the end of the "title" tag and the start of the "body" tag rather than being included in the "head" section.
Look Meredith took out every HTML book the library had and she tried her best dammit
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [45 favorites]
Look Meredith took out every HTML book the library had and she tried her best dammit
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [45 favorites]
Donald Trump, making subtext text as usual: "She also lacks the mental AND PHYSICAL stamina to take on ISIS.
I'm now picturing FDR, his wheelchair getting stuck in the sand, taking on the Germans at D-Day.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:46 PM on August 15, 2016 [19 favorites]
I'm now picturing FDR, his wheelchair getting stuck in the sand, taking on the Germans at D-Day.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:46 PM on August 15, 2016 [19 favorites]
I love this essentially pointless math exercise and endorse it completely so long as we never actually generate Mefi C/F Ratios for ignoble purposes. I just love the idea of statistics, especially demonstrably meaningless ones.
The term of art is "Mefimetrics" The pronunciation is obvious.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:47 PM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
The term of art is "Mefimetrics" The pronunciation is obvious.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:47 PM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
Metafilter Contribution Index
I just learned from zarq's link that today marks 14 years that I've been here at Metafilter as member (I lurked for about two years). I feel like this year's election has been going on at least that long.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:47 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
I just learned from zarq's link that today marks 14 years that I've been here at Metafilter as member (I lurked for about two years). I feel like this year's election has been going on at least that long.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:47 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
that's because she sleeps? or is it her loser vagina?
posted by angrycat at 12:48 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 12:48 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Not many people are talking about Indiana, but a new poll came out recently showing Trump and Clinton as neck and neck, a big change from previous polls which had Trump ahead by a significant margin as recently as a few weeks ago. Indiana went Republican in 2012, but Democrat in 2008.
Meanwhile, in the 538 polls-only national forecast Clinton is beginning to look like she may be plateauing a bit somewhere around the 90% mark but her chances in the Indiana model appear still to be rocketing upward. The forecast has her with about a 30% chance to win the state, putting it within striking distance if she continues to make gains in polling there.
Something to keep an eye on, as Indiana's 11 electoral college votes represent a significant prize and if Clinton can put it on her side it will definitely help shore up her chances and make a landslide victory much more likely. I personally have been feeling a lot more sanguine recently about the USA's chances of avoiding a President Trump, but what I really want to see is a crushing defeat, something that utterly repudiates the vileness and insanity of his campaign, something which deals a sharp blow to the Republican party and sets it back on its heels for the next few election cycles.
Winning states like Indiana, South Carolina, and Missouri is part of what will need to happen for such a blow to land. These are the new battlegrounds of this election, and it's heartening to see Clinton making solid gains in those sorts of places.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:49 PM on August 15, 2016 [29 favorites]
Meanwhile, in the 538 polls-only national forecast Clinton is beginning to look like she may be plateauing a bit somewhere around the 90% mark but her chances in the Indiana model appear still to be rocketing upward. The forecast has her with about a 30% chance to win the state, putting it within striking distance if she continues to make gains in polling there.
Something to keep an eye on, as Indiana's 11 electoral college votes represent a significant prize and if Clinton can put it on her side it will definitely help shore up her chances and make a landslide victory much more likely. I personally have been feeling a lot more sanguine recently about the USA's chances of avoiding a President Trump, but what I really want to see is a crushing defeat, something that utterly repudiates the vileness and insanity of his campaign, something which deals a sharp blow to the Republican party and sets it back on its heels for the next few election cycles.
Winning states like Indiana, South Carolina, and Missouri is part of what will need to happen for such a blow to land. These are the new battlegrounds of this election, and it's heartening to see Clinton making solid gains in those sorts of places.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:49 PM on August 15, 2016 [29 favorites]
HOOSIERS!
This cycle can lock down A SECOND DEMOCRATIC SENATOR and the GOVERNORSHIP as well! GOTMFV!
posted by leotrotsky at 12:52 PM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
This cycle can lock down A SECOND DEMOCRATIC SENATOR and the GOVERNORSHIP as well! GOTMFV!
posted by leotrotsky at 12:52 PM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
The term of art is "Mefimetrics"
Sabermeftrics, surely.
posted by cortex at 12:53 PM on August 15, 2016 [25 favorites]
Sabermeftrics, surely.
posted by cortex at 12:53 PM on August 15, 2016 [25 favorites]
R343L: Omg Reid. Some reporters should just start asking Trump questions from the citizenship test whenever presented with the opportunity. Normally I'd think that is unethical journalism but Trump kind of opens up to it with the combination of being anti-immigrant and routinely showing a lack of basic knowledge about how the country works.
This is genius--and much more pointed than my idea of asking him questions from basic high-school civics / American History classes. Part of me would be so, so happy if someone could goad him into publicly taking the Advanced Placement test on US Government & Politics. Maybe as part of the debates! To demonstrate how little grasp he has of civics, of recent history, of the principles & practice of how laws get made and why we have them in the first place.
But that part of me is getting broken into little bits by this campaign season. The idea that proving Trump has no grasp of how the constitution works would be some great election-changing zinger feels passé and irrelevant somehow. There are so many more disqualifying factors that haven’t stuck. (The Slate list, last I checked, was up to 173.) The part of me that might find joy in exposing Obvious Scoundrel Donald Trump got tired of waiting for the right cue and too hot in his scratchy little Zorro costume and he climbed off to bed, poor little guy.
That said: I would still *totally* watch two and a half hours of HRC and DJT taking an AP exam. Like a 145-minute Final Jeopardy with the answer “Some basic shit about checks and balances a president should really, really know without having to look it up.”
posted by miles per flower at 12:54 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
This is genius--and much more pointed than my idea of asking him questions from basic high-school civics / American History classes. Part of me would be so, so happy if someone could goad him into publicly taking the Advanced Placement test on US Government & Politics. Maybe as part of the debates! To demonstrate how little grasp he has of civics, of recent history, of the principles & practice of how laws get made and why we have them in the first place.
But that part of me is getting broken into little bits by this campaign season. The idea that proving Trump has no grasp of how the constitution works would be some great election-changing zinger feels passé and irrelevant somehow. There are so many more disqualifying factors that haven’t stuck. (The Slate list, last I checked, was up to 173.) The part of me that might find joy in exposing Obvious Scoundrel Donald Trump got tired of waiting for the right cue and too hot in his scratchy little Zorro costume and he climbed off to bed, poor little guy.
That said: I would still *totally* watch two and a half hours of HRC and DJT taking an AP exam. Like a 145-minute Final Jeopardy with the answer “Some basic shit about checks and balances a president should really, really know without having to look it up.”
posted by miles per flower at 12:54 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
that's because she sleeps? or is it her loser vagina?
I don't know but he sure is puffing himself up. He keeps talking about her need for sleep and how she isn't physically fit like he is some sort of tiny kitten fluffing out his fur and standing on tip toes to make himself appear bigger. Like maybe if he was 50-something and in top shape he could run on his superior physical prowess but as a bloated old man....it's a weird angle to take.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:55 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
I don't know but he sure is puffing himself up. He keeps talking about her need for sleep and how she isn't physically fit like he is some sort of tiny kitten fluffing out his fur and standing on tip toes to make himself appear bigger. Like maybe if he was 50-something and in top shape he could run on his superior physical prowess but as a bloated old man....it's a weird angle to take.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:55 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
I am also really interested to see a new poll in Mississippi. That's a state where African-American voters have historically been basically disenfranchised by the winner-take all nature of the electoral college—the demographics of the state are such that the ultra-conservative White majority pretty much runs the place despite large minorities of Black and more recently Latinx residents—and there's been no polling there since late March. 538's forecast gives Clinton a 30% chance to win Mississippi as well, based mainly on extrapolations from national polling figures. I have a feeling that the model may not be tracking Mississippi very well, but if it is—and if polling, whenever it happens, shows Clinton doing well there—then we may be in for a truly historic upset in that state. Big "ifs," but not out of the question in this election.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:55 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:55 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I know Indiana is crazy and all but I can't see it staying red if Georgia - Georgia! is a tossup.
I will say that this election is unearthing some cultural fault lines that I think have been more or less buried (in political discourse, at least) since the 1870s. Particularly the Piedmont vs. the Deep South; the upland South and Appalachia vs. the Black Belt; and the Ohio Valley vs. the upper Midwest.
Let me put it another way: Support for Trump east of the Mississippi might be correlated with... physical elevation above sea level?
this is such a bizarre election
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:56 PM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
I will say that this election is unearthing some cultural fault lines that I think have been more or less buried (in political discourse, at least) since the 1870s. Particularly the Piedmont vs. the Deep South; the upland South and Appalachia vs. the Black Belt; and the Ohio Valley vs. the upper Midwest.
Let me put it another way: Support for Trump east of the Mississippi might be correlated with... physical elevation above sea level?
this is such a bizarre election
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:56 PM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
Y'all do realize my initial comment was tongue-in-cheek, yes? I'm not actually advocating that Clinton enslave Trump if she wins. :)
But is it really so bad to want to wake up on 9 November and see him driven before her, and maybe hear the lamentations of Melania and Ivanka?
It's the little things, is what I'm saying.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:57 PM on August 15, 2016 [20 favorites]
But is it really so bad to want to wake up on 9 November and see him driven before her, and maybe hear the lamentations of Melania and Ivanka?
It's the little things, is what I'm saying.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:57 PM on August 15, 2016 [20 favorites]
...and maybe hear the lamentations of Melania and Ivanka?
But not Tiffany, Tiffany would rejoice.
posted by Floydd at 12:59 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
But not Tiffany, Tiffany would rejoice.
posted by Floydd at 12:59 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
Sabermeftrics, surely.
Every time I try to say that I bite my tongue.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:00 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Every time I try to say that I bite my tongue.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:00 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
New York Times has their review of his speech up. Donald Trump’s Terrorism Plan Mixes Cold War Concepts and Limits on Immigrants
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:01 PM on August 15, 2016
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:01 PM on August 15, 2016
"As a Wendy, I feel it desperately important to point out that Ms. Deng spells her name with an inferior i, not a majestic y, thank you very much.
posted by palomar at 7:41 PM on August 14"
As a Wendi, I feel it is desperately important to point out that it is not the glorious and majestic "i" spelling that is the cause of Ms. Deng's execrable taste in men.
All Wend[y/i/ie]-Americans must unite and not be driven apart by petty spelling squabbles! Celebrate our diversity!
(I bet you were born in the mid-60s, right? The time of peak-Wend[y/i/ie]?)
posted by litlnemo at 1:07 PM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by palomar at 7:41 PM on August 14"
As a Wendi, I feel it is desperately important to point out that it is not the glorious and majestic "i" spelling that is the cause of Ms. Deng's execrable taste in men.
All Wend[y/i/ie]-Americans must unite and not be driven apart by petty spelling squabbles! Celebrate our diversity!
(I bet you were born in the mid-60s, right? The time of peak-Wend[y/i/ie]?)
posted by litlnemo at 1:07 PM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
Winning states like Indiana, South Carolina, and Missouri is part of what will need to happen for such a blow to land.
Taking Indiana is a very real possibility, but we're going to need young people to turn-out in sizeable numbers to make it happen.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:07 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Taking Indiana is a very real possibility, but we're going to need young people to turn-out in sizeable numbers to make it happen.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:07 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Donald Trump, making subtext text as usual: "She also lacks the mental AND PHYSICAL stamina to take on ISIS.
As far as I know, she doesn't have those terrible bone spurs impairing her ability to defeat our enemies. Unlike some people.
posted by aught at 1:08 PM on August 15, 2016 [34 favorites]
As far as I know, she doesn't have those terrible bone spurs impairing her ability to defeat our enemies. Unlike some people.
posted by aught at 1:08 PM on August 15, 2016 [34 favorites]
The Trump campaign just released the prepared text [PDF] for the speech Trump just gave, which includes citations for many of his specific claims.
The Cargo-Cult School of Argumentation
posted by BrashTech at 1:13 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
The Cargo-Cult School of Argumentation
posted by BrashTech at 1:13 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
The Atlantic Donald Trump's Intolerance for Intolerance
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:13 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
What would Trump do to rectify the problem? His system of questionnaires, interviews, and background checks sounds broadly similar to the current system, which involved interviewing applicants, combing for worrisome connections, and checking their names against intelligence files. The inclusion of social media is somewhat fresher. The revelation, following the San Bernardino attacks, that U.S. screeners were not searching for applicants on social networks infuriated many conservatives. But that, too, has already changed, with the Department of Homeland Security scrambling to include those networks in their process.We see this so often with Trump. He bangs the drum and screams because we are all in terrible danger because of X problem but he, Trump will fix that when he is President by doing Y. But when you examine Y it turns out to be something the government is already doing. I really get the feeling that is because he is completely ignorant about what our government does or is capable of doing. This is the result of "man off the street" "using common sense" to run Washington D.C. He really has no clue as to the depths of his ignorance and if we could run a virtual reality it would be so fun to see him flounder when he is elected. Sadly we will never know what a horrible mess he would have made of governening because the American Electorate is too sensible to allow him anywhere near the Oval Office.
Taken in sum, Trump’s ideas seem to have evolved from a clear-cut but arguably illegal process in the first place to a proposal that now largely resembles the status quo, although with a few additional, vague tests. What Trump calls “extreme vetting” looks quite a bit like the existing vetting, only with an adjective attached. If the past is any indication, however, Monday’s proposal may prove to be just another rough draft as well. Translation is an inexact and imperfect art.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:13 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
Recently, I realized that they who rail against "political correctness" are making a full-throated argument--and I use the word loosely here--that saying cruel things should not carry social penalties. We literally have a political movement in this country that promotes being an asshole as necessary pre-condition to solving our nation's problems.
Alyssa Rosenburg's 'Politically Incorrect' Ideas are Mostly Rude, Not Brave in the WaPo touches on this topic rather more extensively:
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:15 PM on August 15, 2016 [55 favorites]
Alyssa Rosenburg's 'Politically Incorrect' Ideas are Mostly Rude, Not Brave in the WaPo touches on this topic rather more extensively:
[...] Trump claimed the Republican nomination by exploiting a preexisting sense that important truths were going unspoken in American public life and positioning himself as the only person daring enough to say them.Added emphasis is mine. So rarely are the anti-PC brigade actually trying to use rhetoric to help the downtrodden or speak an unheard truth. Mostly, railing against political correctness seems to be about continuing to use entrenched, derogatory language rather than work harder at understanding why such language has become unacceptable to larger portions of the population.
But what if the things people have held themselves back from saying for fear of social censure aren’t inherently meaningful? The sad thing about so much supposed truth-telling is that their supposed transgressions aren’t remotely risky. They’re just rude. [...]
Presenting commonplace unpleasantness as an act of moral courage is a nifty bit of reframing. This formulation allows its practitioners to treat their own laziness, meanness and self-indulgence as ethically and politically meaningful, when in fact they’re anything but. We may not be able to afford the suppression of important ideas in the public sphere. But people who rail against political correctness need better examples if they’re going to insist that kindness and decency are threats to the republic.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:15 PM on August 15, 2016 [55 favorites]
@dbernstein:
Trump surrogate Ed Brookover on CNN insists that "mental & physical stamina" was a policy critique, NOT a reference to Clinton's health.
HAHAHAHAHA
posted by salix at 1:20 PM on August 15, 2016 [25 favorites]
Trump surrogate Ed Brookover on CNN insists that "mental & physical stamina" was a policy critique, NOT a reference to Clinton's health.
HAHAHAHAHA
posted by salix at 1:20 PM on August 15, 2016 [25 favorites]
Winning states like Indiana, South Carolina, and Missouri is part of what will need to happen for such a blow to land. These are the new battlegrounds of this election, and it's heartening to see Clinton making solid gains in those sorts of places.
And even more heartening is that they're all well on Republican turf. The Blue Wall seems to be unassailable at the moment, which means that earlier predictions of the terrible electoral map Trump faces were on the money.
posted by Gelatin at 1:22 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
And even more heartening is that they're all well on Republican turf. The Blue Wall seems to be unassailable at the moment, which means that earlier predictions of the terrible electoral map Trump faces were on the money.
posted by Gelatin at 1:22 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Donald Trump announced very early on in his campaign that when he is president everyone will be saying "Merry Christmas."
in january? the man's a genius, i tell ya
posted by pyramid termite at 1:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
in january? the man's a genius, i tell ya
posted by pyramid termite at 1:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
he was referring to sarcastic physical stamina obviously
posted by NMcCoy at 1:25 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by NMcCoy at 1:25 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Sabermeftrics, surely.
Every time I try to say that I bite my tongue.
To say it properly you have to bite your tongue first.
posted by Gelatin at 1:25 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Every time I try to say that I bite my tongue.
To say it properly you have to bite your tongue first.
posted by Gelatin at 1:25 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Trump surrogate Ed Brookover on CNN insists that "mental & physical stamina" was a policy critique, NOT a reference to Clinton's health.
Republicans have moved past creating their own reality and have moved on to creating their own languages where words don't mean what they mean but what they want the words to mean. Furthermore, the meaning is fluid so it could mean one thing to one person and another thing to another person and both are true at the same time. The only meaning that is rejected is whichever meaning is being used to criticize the candidate, typically the actual meaning of the word.
Instead of "You Can't Always Get What You Want," I think the Trump campaign should start using "What a Wonderful World" for lyrically obvious reasons.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:25 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Republicans have moved past creating their own reality and have moved on to creating their own languages where words don't mean what they mean but what they want the words to mean. Furthermore, the meaning is fluid so it could mean one thing to one person and another thing to another person and both are true at the same time. The only meaning that is rejected is whichever meaning is being used to criticize the candidate, typically the actual meaning of the word.
Instead of "You Can't Always Get What You Want," I think the Trump campaign should start using "What a Wonderful World" for lyrically obvious reasons.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:25 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
I saw that, salix and I'm still have trouble processing it. So Hillary Clinton does not have the physical stamina is a policy now? I can't even make this into something that makes sense. Her policy is not physical enough? Her bad policy is a reflection of her poor physical and mental stamina? I keep putting the words into different order and it is still a bizarre mess.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:25 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:25 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
Those are all post-meaning words, Secret Life of Gravy. His speeches work better if you just let them wash over you like acid rain.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:29 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:29 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Remember I just wrote that Trump wants to fix X with Y solution...and Y is already been used? This just in:
Donald Trump has ideas to fix the VA. Some have been tried before.
Donald Trump has ideas to fix the VA. Some have been tried before.
Trump’s hotline and a number of other initiatives in the VA plan recently unveiled by the GOP presidential nominee echo past or ongoing efforts to improve health care — including some with poor outcomes. A new secretary has been installed, laws were passed to quickly terminate bad managers and a commission completed a landmark review of the department.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:31 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
The VA has also hired more mental health providers, tried to protect whistleblowers and reined in employee bonuses.
Donald Trump, making subtext text as usual: "She also lacks the mental AND PHYSICAL stamina to take on ISIS.
HRC needs to come out with an adapted 'Speech to the troops at Tilbury', referencing her health, mainly because I will lose my shit.
posted by PenDevil at 1:31 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
HRC needs to come out with an adapted 'Speech to the troops at Tilbury', referencing her health, mainly because I will lose my shit.
posted by PenDevil at 1:31 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
(I bet you were born in the mid-60s, right? The time of peak-Wend[y/i/ie]?)
Nope, late 70's -- I'll be 39 this fall. Pretty sure I'm named after the fast food restaurant, from what I know of mom's pregnancy cravings.
posted by palomar at 1:37 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Nope, late 70's -- I'll be 39 this fall. Pretty sure I'm named after the fast food restaurant, from what I know of mom's pregnancy cravings.
posted by palomar at 1:37 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Go, Diamond Joe! Headline from Politico about what Biden said today: Biden on Trump: "He Would Have Loved Stalin."
Also re the Trump campaign on Politico: Trump hires the B team.
Lastly, per the hill.com, the Wall Street Journal wrote a scathing editorial saying it is on the verge of writing off the Trump campaign as a lost cause.
I do not think it is helping Trump to double down on his lies about what he said about withdrawal overseas. The press is all over him at this point, and so is everyone else.
posted by bearwife at 1:37 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also re the Trump campaign on Politico: Trump hires the B team.
Lastly, per the hill.com, the Wall Street Journal wrote a scathing editorial saying it is on the verge of writing off the Trump campaign as a lost cause.
I do not think it is helping Trump to double down on his lies about what he said about withdrawal overseas. The press is all over him at this point, and so is everyone else.
posted by bearwife at 1:37 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
> Instead of "You Can't Always Get What You Want," I think the Trump campaign should start using "What a Wonderful World" for lyrically obvious reasons.
As I see it the best choice for music to end Trump rallies is We'll Meet Again.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:38 PM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
As I see it the best choice for music to end Trump rallies is We'll Meet Again.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:38 PM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
I love this essentially pointless math exercise and endorse it completely so long as we never actually generate Mefi C/F Ratios for ignoble purposes. I just love the idea of statistics, especially demonstrably meaningless ones.
Same, and I would love to see a tongue-in-cheek meta where we all get to propose various mefi meta-stats. Maybe some experienced info-dumpster diver could gin up a temporary script to calculate them and see what the results would look like. Just for fun - I would win none of them (unless I tailor-made a stat I would win and even then, probably not) and the results would only have faux-meaning.
I haven't posted one because the chances of that going well without someone getting all 'cool kids' pouty about it are negligible to zero. (plus, cortex might not like someone's calculation script beating up the server)
posted by ctmf at 1:42 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Same, and I would love to see a tongue-in-cheek meta where we all get to propose various mefi meta-stats. Maybe some experienced info-dumpster diver could gin up a temporary script to calculate them and see what the results would look like. Just for fun - I would win none of them (unless I tailor-made a stat I would win and even then, probably not) and the results would only have faux-meaning.
I haven't posted one because the chances of that going well without someone getting all 'cool kids' pouty about it are negligible to zero. (plus, cortex might not like someone's calculation script beating up the server)
posted by ctmf at 1:42 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I hope so. I mean, I still get his emails because of contributions I made to his campaign earlier in the year and the only woman I've seen him mention is Zephyr Teachout (progressive running for Congress in NY who challenged Mario Cuomo a couple years ago in the Democratic gubernatorial primary). Oh, wait, two women mentioned - he had an ANTI Debbie Wasserman Schultz email too. [real]
In the State of Washington, Sanders has sent emails to ask recipients to support Pramila Jayapal, a progressive (and woman) running for Congress. She represents exactly the type of down-ticket candidate that true progressives and liberals will want to have in office to help give the President's legislative proposals any hope of success.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:42 PM on August 15, 2016 [25 favorites]
In the State of Washington, Sanders has sent emails to ask recipients to support Pramila Jayapal, a progressive (and woman) running for Congress. She represents exactly the type of down-ticket candidate that true progressives and liberals will want to have in office to help give the President's legislative proposals any hope of success.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:42 PM on August 15, 2016 [25 favorites]
His speeches work better if you just let them wash over you like acid rain.
Ah, I was wondering what this cool, dissolving yet strangely spicy sensation on my skin was
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:43 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ah, I was wondering what this cool, dissolving yet strangely spicy sensation on my skin was
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:43 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Google search: "clinton health"
* Heat Street: HEALTH WATCH: Hillary Clinton's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions. What's going on with Hillary Clinton's health? That's a question many people are asking ...
* Mediaite: Stelter Tears Into Hannity for 'Reckless' Boosting of Clinton Health Conspiracies
* WorldNetDaily: Now Clinton talks about her health issues
* Political Insider: SHOCKING News Released About Hillary Rodham Clinton's Health ...
* Sleuth Journal: Hillary Clinton's Health In Rapid Decline – Will She Even Make It To ...
* The Raw Story: CNN host shreds Hannity for Clinton health conspiracies: 'Fox still has ...
* RedState: Democrats Running Scared Amid New Clinton Health Scare |
The usual suspects are trying to divert the voting public from realizing that their emperor has no clothes.
posted by zarq at 1:44 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
* Heat Street: HEALTH WATCH: Hillary Clinton's Erratic Behavior Raises Questions. What's going on with Hillary Clinton's health? That's a question many people are asking ...
* Mediaite: Stelter Tears Into Hannity for 'Reckless' Boosting of Clinton Health Conspiracies
* WorldNetDaily: Now Clinton talks about her health issues
* Political Insider: SHOCKING News Released About Hillary Rodham Clinton's Health ...
* Sleuth Journal: Hillary Clinton's Health In Rapid Decline – Will She Even Make It To ...
* The Raw Story: CNN host shreds Hannity for Clinton health conspiracies: 'Fox still has ...
* RedState: Democrats Running Scared Amid New Clinton Health Scare |
The usual suspects are trying to divert the voting public from realizing that their emperor has no clothes.
posted by zarq at 1:44 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
So "mental and physical stamina" is about her supposed health problems? That's great -- a wingnut-only bit of dogwhistling that's clearly untrue to anyone outside the bubble.
It's just like the "you didn't build this" attack that pushed President Romney over the top in 2012.
posted by PlusDistance at 1:46 PM on August 15, 2016
It's just like the "you didn't build this" attack that pushed President Romney over the top in 2012.
posted by PlusDistance at 1:46 PM on August 15, 2016
Jayapal's background does seem really great, a lungful of dragon.
posted by peacheater at 1:46 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by peacheater at 1:46 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
...the only woman I've seen him mention is Zephyr Teachout (progressive running for Congress in NY who challenged Mario Cuomo a couple years ago in the Democratic gubernatorial primary).
Zephyr Teachout did shockingly well in that primary.
I've started following her on facebook and she is campaigning hard. Her district is in the Catskills, her Republican opponent is calling her a communist, and I've been thinking of sending her some money. I can't find any polling info though - is it too small a district to poll or is it too early?
posted by maggiemaggie at 1:50 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Zephyr Teachout did shockingly well in that primary.
I've started following her on facebook and she is campaigning hard. Her district is in the Catskills, her Republican opponent is calling her a communist, and I've been thinking of sending her some money. I can't find any polling info though - is it too small a district to poll or is it too early?
posted by maggiemaggie at 1:50 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Great she may be, but I wanted to better know a district:
The 7th is the most Democratic district in the Pacific Northwest, and the most Democratic district on the West Coast outside of the San Francisco Bay Area or Los Angeles. It is also the most Democratic majority-white district in the United States. Democrats dominate every level of government, and routinely win elections by well over 70 percent of the vote.
Focusing his efforts on D vs D primary battles is not gonna flip congress in a way that's going to make enacting a progressive agenda any easier.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:51 PM on August 15, 2016 [27 favorites]
The 7th is the most Democratic district in the Pacific Northwest, and the most Democratic district on the West Coast outside of the San Francisco Bay Area or Los Angeles. It is also the most Democratic majority-white district in the United States. Democrats dominate every level of government, and routinely win elections by well over 70 percent of the vote.
Focusing his efforts on D vs D primary battles is not gonna flip congress in a way that's going to make enacting a progressive agenda any easier.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:51 PM on August 15, 2016 [27 favorites]
> their own languages where words don't mean what they mean but what they want the words to mean
It actually makes a lot of sense to say whatever you like, and then define the meaning of what you said by the way the audience reacts. All the other candidates learn what words mean, and ask people what they want to hear, and then write down words and say them. Which is an awful lot of work!
posted by Spathe Cadet at 1:51 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
It actually makes a lot of sense to say whatever you like, and then define the meaning of what you said by the way the audience reacts. All the other candidates learn what words mean, and ask people what they want to hear, and then write down words and say them. Which is an awful lot of work!
posted by Spathe Cadet at 1:51 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm nervous Manafort will get bored of just making insinuations, and call his dioxin guy
posted by theodolite at 1:51 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 1:51 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
Well, many people are asking questions about Donald Trump's *mental* health, so this might be another one of those cases of projection many people are talking about.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:51 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:51 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Sadly we will never know what a horrible mess he would have made of governening because the American Electorate is too sensible to allow him anywhere near the Oval Office.
The terrifying thing about our country lately is that is not guaranteed to be true.
posted by ctmf at 1:54 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
The terrifying thing about our country lately is that is not guaranteed to be true.
posted by ctmf at 1:54 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
>Anyway, a while ago Henwood pointed to this article from last October, How Do You Spell Apparent Fraud? The Clinton Foundation, Shady Accounting and AIDS by Ken Silverstein, one of the founders of the left-wing magazine Counterpunch,
Yeah, that was like the absolute worst article I have read in many a week--and that's saying something. Really well into "embarrassing even to link to" territory. It just went on and on and on about how illegal and/or terrible X, Y, and Z were without ever providing even the SLIGHTEST bit of evidence that X, Y, or Z ever actually occurred in the Clinton Foundation specifically.
It's just smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, and more smoke without even the slightest evidence of any actual fire.
A few examples of the supposed malfeasance:
I mean, it almost makes you yearn for Trump. At least he would keep his random unsubstantiated bloviation to 140 characters. "Some say, Crummy Clintons are bad evil rotten no-good lawbreakers who steal and have smelly feet. Should be in prison! Sad!" [actual summary of above-linked article, including verbatim quotes of all all actual evidence of malfeasance]
posted by flug at 1:54 PM on August 15, 2016 [65 favorites]
Yeah, that was like the absolute worst article I have read in many a week--and that's saying something. Really well into "embarrassing even to link to" territory. It just went on and on and on about how illegal and/or terrible X, Y, and Z were without ever providing even the SLIGHTEST bit of evidence that X, Y, or Z ever actually occurred in the Clinton Foundation specifically.
It's just smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, and more smoke without even the slightest evidence of any actual fire.
A few examples of the supposed malfeasance:
- Bill Clinton wrote a book about philanthropy and giving
- The Clinton Foundation hired a Big Four accounting firm to do their accounting etc, and one of that firm's thousands (tens of thousands?) of other clients did something illegal and went to jail.
- They started a separate charity to do a certain type of work and then later closed that one and rolled it into the Clinton Foundation
While inurement may sound obscure to the layman, it’s an ancient legal principle and the IRS is very clear that it is verboten. If you are familiar with it, it becomes immediately clear that Bill Clinton – and arguably Hillary and daughter Chelsea as family members and fellow Clinton Foundation trustees – could have big problems come November 16. So, too, could Clinton cronies like Ira Magaziner (see below) and Doug Band, a Clinton administration and former Foundation insider who subsequently became a founding partner of a bipartisan business swamp called Teneo Holdings. . . .Quality writing, that. The word "smear" could have been invented just to describe this article.
[OK, that's great--now how about some actual evidence of inurement? Naw, that's completely missing--though plenty of innuendo keeps insisting that it must be happening, somehow.]
In 2001, Bill helped set up the Clinton Foundation within weeks of leaving office – after surrendering his law licenses in January for lying under oath during the Monica Lewinsky investigation. That’s not much of a qualification to help run a foundation since those in charge of charities are legally bound to always make truthful declarations.
Bill clearly was in position to exercise significant influence over the foundation and referred to it publicly as "his" charity on numerous occasions. And even though he was not an officer or director of the main foundation until 2013 he had from the very beginning signed legal agreements on the foundation’s behalf and traveled the globe bragging about its alleged good deeds.
Hillary and daughter Chelsea, who has accomplished little of note in her life but was made a foundation Vice Chair, basked in the glory. Note here that as board members and trustees, Bill, Hillary (from 2013 to early 2015) and Chelsea are legally accountable for any foundation misconduct.
[Wow, there's some real strong evidence--"bragging" and signing things. Where WILL the malfeasance end . . . ]
I mean, it almost makes you yearn for Trump. At least he would keep his random unsubstantiated bloviation to 140 characters. "Some say, Crummy Clintons are bad evil rotten no-good lawbreakers who steal and have smelly feet. Should be in prison! Sad!" [actual summary of above-linked article, including verbatim quotes of all all actual evidence of malfeasance]
posted by flug at 1:54 PM on August 15, 2016 [65 favorites]
“When I use a word,” Trumpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Hillary, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Trumpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that's all.”
posted by kirkaracha at 1:56 PM on August 15, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 1:56 PM on August 15, 2016 [24 favorites]
I've learned not to feel badly that I am profligate with giving favorites so my give-to-get ratio is reeeeealy lopsided. I have chosen to look at favorites given to me in light of number of comments and posts I've made. If I can keep that ratio about even, I feel I'm still cool with y'all.
posted by thebrokedown at 1:57 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 1:57 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Ivanka is on vacation with Wendy Deng, who is dating Putin. I'm just saying ya'll.
If this is real, well ...holy crap. Snopes says that Ivanka's friendship with Wendi Deng is long-standing and solid, but that Deng's connection to Putin is not verified. (She denies it, but hardly seems like a person who's word you can trust. Hell, she made me half-sympathetic to Rupert Murdoch, which I didn't think possible.)
posted by msalt at 2:01 PM on August 15, 2016
If this is real, well ...holy crap. Snopes says that Ivanka's friendship with Wendi Deng is long-standing and solid, but that Deng's connection to Putin is not verified. (She denies it, but hardly seems like a person who's word you can trust. Hell, she made me half-sympathetic to Rupert Murdoch, which I didn't think possible.)
posted by msalt at 2:01 PM on August 15, 2016
is it too small a district to poll or is it too early?
The 19th congressional district of New York has about 700,000 people, so not too small to poll, but I can't find any Chris Gibson (R) won in a landslide in 2014 with 62% of the vote, and if you drive around the catskills you see a lot of signs complaining about the NY SAFE act (a gun control bill) and lots of Cuomo hate. Teachout is a great candidate and very anti-establishment kind of gal so she might win but I wouldn't count on it.
posted by dis_integration at 2:04 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
The 19th congressional district of New York has about 700,000 people, so not too small to poll, but I can't find any Chris Gibson (R) won in a landslide in 2014 with 62% of the vote, and if you drive around the catskills you see a lot of signs complaining about the NY SAFE act (a gun control bill) and lots of Cuomo hate. Teachout is a great candidate and very anti-establishment kind of gal so she might win but I wouldn't count on it.
posted by dis_integration at 2:04 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I’ve learned not to feel badly that I am profligate with giving favorites so my give-to-get ratio is reeeeealy lopsided. I have chosen to look at favorites given to me in light of number of comments and posts I’ve made. If I can keep that ratio about even, I feel I'm still cool with y’all.
Part of adjusting to the site (I think) is at some point accepting the idea that giving a favorite costs you nothing. So good job!
posted by Going To Maine at 2:09 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Part of adjusting to the site (I think) is at some point accepting the idea that giving a favorite costs you nothing. So good job!
posted by Going To Maine at 2:09 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
whoa, whoa whoa
I'm paying a dime per favorite here
what the fuck
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:15 PM on August 15, 2016 [42 favorites]
I'm paying a dime per favorite here
what the fuck
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:15 PM on August 15, 2016 [42 favorites]
I've started following her on facebook and she is campaigning hard. Her district is in the Catskills, her Republican opponent is calling her a communist, and I've been thinking of sending her some money. I can't find any polling info though - is it too small a district to poll or is it too early?
It's not too small a district to poll and that particular race will draw a lot of attention for several reasons, including that the seat may very well flip to the Dems, that Teachout is a progressive who challenged Cuomo and did well, and her reputation is as an anti-corruption crusader. It's a fun race to follow, too: New York State has been heavily gerrymandered, but the District is still very much up for grabs.
It may simply be too early for polls to appear.
The area is covered by The Journal News, which is a Gannett / USA Today paper. Polls will probably show up there. The race may also be covered by the Observer.
The district is overwhelmingly White, and heavily Jewish, especially in Rockland County. Because of this, John Faso has been pushing 'stand with Israel' rhetoric. Doubt it will save him from defeat, though, since he's also following the Republican party line on other issues. He's a former lobbyist and State Assemblyman who repeatedly voted against equal pay for women. On the other hand, Teachout is pretty left wing. Gonna be interesting.
posted by zarq at 2:15 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's not too small a district to poll and that particular race will draw a lot of attention for several reasons, including that the seat may very well flip to the Dems, that Teachout is a progressive who challenged Cuomo and did well, and her reputation is as an anti-corruption crusader. It's a fun race to follow, too: New York State has been heavily gerrymandered, but the District is still very much up for grabs.
It may simply be too early for polls to appear.
The area is covered by The Journal News, which is a Gannett / USA Today paper. Polls will probably show up there. The race may also be covered by the Observer.
The district is overwhelmingly White, and heavily Jewish, especially in Rockland County. Because of this, John Faso has been pushing 'stand with Israel' rhetoric. Doubt it will save him from defeat, though, since he's also following the Republican party line on other issues. He's a former lobbyist and State Assemblyman who repeatedly voted against equal pay for women. On the other hand, Teachout is pretty left wing. Gonna be interesting.
posted by zarq at 2:15 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
whoa, whoa whoa
I'm paying a dime per favorite here
what the fuck
$20, same as in town.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:16 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
I'm paying a dime per favorite here
what the fuck
$20, same as in town.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:16 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
$20 oh shit nvm
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:18 PM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:18 PM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
> I'm paying a dime per favorite here
$20 here. SAIT.
posted by gingerbeer at 2:18 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
$20 here. SAIT.
posted by gingerbeer at 2:18 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm paying a dime per favorite here
hmm, how much do 200 favorites cost then? Is it the same as in an urban area sized somewhere between a village and a city?
posted by zachlipton at 2:18 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
hmm, how much do 200 favorites cost then? Is it the same as in an urban area sized somewhere between a village and a city?
posted by zachlipton at 2:18 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
ahhh I was just trying to do the math on that damnit zach
everything is horrible
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:18 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
everything is horrible
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:18 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I’m paying a dime per favorite here
Yeah, but if you get three favorites around the rim of that milk bottle, Cortex will give you a giant stuffed WHIPPEDY-DOO to take home.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:18 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Yeah, but if you get three favorites around the rim of that milk bottle, Cortex will give you a giant stuffed WHIPPEDY-DOO to take home.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:18 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
I'm thinking there should be a $20 fee for making SAIT jokes.
posted by zachlipton at 2:19 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:19 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Minimum amount Donald Trump’s campaign has disbursed to Mar-a-Lago, his private club in Palm Beach : $423,371 (Harper's Index, source: FEC)
posted by salix at 2:21 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by salix at 2:21 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm thinking there should be a $20 fee for making SAIT jokes.
I TECHNICALLY DIDN'T MAKE THE JOKE THANKS TO MY SLOW STUBBY TRUMPLIKE FINGERS
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:22 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
I TECHNICALLY DIDN'T MAKE THE JOKE THANKS TO MY SLOW STUBBY TRUMPLIKE FINGERS
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:22 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Jayapal is running in my district, for which our previous congressman was the valiant progressive, Jim McDermott. She did extraordinarily well in the primary, polling almost twice as many votes as her nearest competitor, in part because she spent lots and lots on good TV advertising targeting Trump and his horrible record of sexism. I like her, but I am also partial to her gay Hispanic liberal Democratic opponent, Brady Pinero Walkinshaw. We are a deep shade of blue around here.
posted by bearwife at 2:22 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by bearwife at 2:22 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
I think you should all send me $20 every time I refrain from grumping that favorites are not upvotes but then I would probably be obligated to pay the get the fuck over it, it's been a decade now tax which is a similar amount.
posted by phearlez at 2:22 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by phearlez at 2:22 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
The really measure of popularity at Mefi is what your comments favorited $ rate times the SAIT $ rate divided by how many times you've used the SAIT joke x how many times you've used "Surely This..."
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:22 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:22 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Ivanka is on vacation with Wendy Deng, who is dating Putin. I'm just saying ya'll.
Every evening I check under my bed for Russians, and then I check the rug under my bed, and then, just to be really sure, I pull up the floorboards under the rug under my bed. One day I'll find a Russian there and kick his huge ass
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 2:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Every evening I check under my bed for Russians, and then I check the rug under my bed, and then, just to be really sure, I pull up the floorboards under the rug under my bed. One day I'll find a Russian there and kick his huge ass
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 2:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Trying to keep myself motivated to do phonebanking for Hillary- surely I'm not the only one, maybe we should do a Mefi challenge group or something?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:25 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:25 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
is there going to be a tax on 'in soviet russia...' jokes
asking for a friend
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:25 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
asking for a friend
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:25 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
"I use favorites as bookmarks" = $500 fine
Actually using a favorite as a bookmark and then removing it later = $2500 fine
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:26 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
Actually using a favorite as a bookmark and then removing it later = $2500 fine
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:26 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
The rumors about Clinton's health are particularly exasperating, given Trump's ridiculous doctor's letter written by Dr. Spaceman.
posted by benbenson at 2:26 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by benbenson at 2:26 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Transcribers' agony: Frustrated not by what Trump says but how he says it
His unscripted speaking style, with its spasmodic, self-interrupting sentence structure, has increasingly come to overwhelm the human brains and tape recorders attempting to quote him.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:26 PM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
Trump is, simply put, a transcriptionist's worst nightmare: severely unintelligible, and yet, incredibly important to understand.
Given how dramatically recent polls have turned on his controversial public utterances, it is not hyperbolic to say that the very fate of the nation, indeed human civilization, appears destined to come down to one man's application of the English language — and the public's comprehension of it. It has turned the rote job of transcribing into a high-stakes calling.
Actually using a favorite as a bookmark and then removing it later = $2500 fine
oh my god people do this??
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:28 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
oh my god people do this??
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:28 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
"I use favorites as bookmarks" = $500 fine
Actually using a favorite as a bookmark and then removing it later = $2500 fine
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:26 PM on August 15 [+] Favorite removed! [!]
this is the most meta thing I've ever done
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:29 PM on August 15, 2016 [54 favorites]
Actually using a favorite as a bookmark and then removing it later = $2500 fine
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:26 PM on August 15 [+] Favorite removed! [!]
this is the most meta thing I've ever done
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:29 PM on August 15, 2016 [54 favorites]
My advice to Hillary volunteers is to pace yourselves so as not to burn out too soon. If you want to take a couple week's vacation, do it now, maybe split it between now and mid September, just be there in the last 6 weeks (and make sure there's some emphasis on the all-important down-ticket races).
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:29 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:29 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
So, while were all hanging out here and gabbing, Comedy Central cancelled Larry Wilmore.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:31 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Thorzdad at 2:31 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm thinking there should be a $20 fee for making SAIT jokes.
MeFi Gold.
Though it should prolly be five bucks.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:33 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
MeFi Gold.
Though it should prolly be five bucks.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:33 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I heard about that on this crazy website called MetaFilter. Did you know we have non-election threads too?
posted by zachlipton at 2:33 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:33 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
I don't want you to think of this as blackmail, but if I don't start getting favorites from each and every one of you, I'm gonna have to start removing a few favorites here and there. You'll never see it coming. It'll just be *bang* and a gaping hole were a favorite used to be.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:33 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:33 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
I guess I hadn’t counted on ‘The Unblackening’ happening to my time slot.
Ouch.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:35 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't want you to think of this as blackmail, but
Scared into favoriting. What is this world coming to.
posted by bearwife at 2:35 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Scared into favoriting. What is this world coming to.
posted by bearwife at 2:35 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
As Giuliani would claim, in the years before cortex took office, nobody ever blackmailed people into favoriting on MeFi soil.
posted by zachlipton at 2:38 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:38 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
Anyway, Habitat for Humanity volunteers receive on-site training in construction. They don't actually need to have prior experience to be put to work.
please o please let Trump be trained by Jimmy Carter
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:39 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
please o please let Trump be trained by Jimmy Carter
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:39 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
I'm gonna have to start removing a few favorites here and there.
*backs away slowly*
posted by zarq at 2:39 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
*backs away slowly*
posted by zarq at 2:39 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
"Mr. Trump has had a recent completed medical examination that showed only positive results."
I'm no doctor but I think there might be some medical tests where 'positive results' are not what you are hoping for..
posted by metaphorever at 2:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [34 favorites]
I'm no doctor but I think there might be some medical tests where 'positive results' are not what you are hoping for..
posted by metaphorever at 2:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [34 favorites]
I'm no doctor but I think there might be some medical tests where 'positive results' are not what you are hoping for..
You have everything.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:44 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
You have everything.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:44 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Focusing his efforts on D vs D primary battles is not gonna flip congress in a way that's going to make enacting a progressive agenda any easier.
Remember that in Washington we have jungle primaries. She would have been the D nominee in any other state.
My main problem with Jayapal is she lives in Columbia City, which isn't in the 7th but in the 9th. She ducked Adam Smith (who is pretty much rep for life so long as his district includes the minority-heavy areas of Rainier Beach, Renton, and Federal Way) and instead ran for the open seat in the 7th. Mind you, Columbia City was in the 7th until the 2010 redistricting, and she's only a few miles from the 7th/9th border, but it does feel carpetbaggy.
I also worry she's going to use her seat as a bully pulpit when we desperately need someone in Congress who can horsetrade us more transportation money. We need to finish build this Ballard light rail line sooner than 2035.
Both remaining candidates in the 7th are pretty much as left of center as you can expect. Walkinshaw is a gay Latino Capitol Hill resident with big-time progressive bona fides. He just didn't endorse Bernie. Oh, and he has ties to our awful mayor.
posted by dw at 2:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Remember that in Washington we have jungle primaries. She would have been the D nominee in any other state.
My main problem with Jayapal is she lives in Columbia City, which isn't in the 7th but in the 9th. She ducked Adam Smith (who is pretty much rep for life so long as his district includes the minority-heavy areas of Rainier Beach, Renton, and Federal Way) and instead ran for the open seat in the 7th. Mind you, Columbia City was in the 7th until the 2010 redistricting, and she's only a few miles from the 7th/9th border, but it does feel carpetbaggy.
I also worry she's going to use her seat as a bully pulpit when we desperately need someone in Congress who can horsetrade us more transportation money. We need to finish build this Ballard light rail line sooner than 2035.
Both remaining candidates in the 7th are pretty much as left of center as you can expect. Walkinshaw is a gay Latino Capitol Hill resident with big-time progressive bona fides. He just didn't endorse Bernie. Oh, and he has ties to our awful mayor.
posted by dw at 2:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Well Bill Bryant, Washington’s Republican candidate for governor, un-trumped today. He didn't go the full un-trumpining because he is not voting for Clinton either. "Bryant is considering supporting Libertarian Gary Johnson for president, Roe said." Call me crazy but I doubt he is "considering" Jill Stein-- so that leaves Johnson or nothing.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:47 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:47 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Giuliani says in the eight years before Obama took office, there were no successful terrorist attacks in the U.S.
Given that 911 actually occurred 7.25 years before Obama took office and 7.25/8 = .90, PolitiFact rates this is as 90% correct.
posted by JackFlash at 2:47 PM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
Given that 911 actually occurred 7.25 years before Obama took office and 7.25/8 = .90, PolitiFact rates this is as 90% correct.
posted by JackFlash at 2:47 PM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
I don't want you to think of this as blackmail, but if I don't start getting favorites from each and every one of you, I'm gonna have to start removing a few favorites here and there. You'll never see it coming. It'll just be *bang* and a gaping hole were a favorite used to be.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:33 PM on August 15 [5 favorites +] [!]
Scared into favoriting. What is this world coming to.
posted by bearwife at 2:35 PM on August 15 [1 favorite +] [!]
Roko's favilisk
posted by Existential Dread at 2:49 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:33 PM on August 15 [5 favorites +] [!]
Scared into favoriting. What is this world coming to.
posted by bearwife at 2:35 PM on August 15 [1 favorite +] [!]
Roko's favilisk
posted by Existential Dread at 2:49 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
I choose to believe that Giuliani has actually gone Full Truther and is saying that 9/11 was an inside job and not a terror attack.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:49 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:49 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Dang, I didn't even realize Jayapal was running in the 7th while living in the 9th. (Like her, I live in a part of the 9th that used to be the 7th until recently.) I'm about to move out of state so I haven't been paying as much attention as usual, but that just seems... not right.
OTOH, anyone who is tied to Murray would be an automatic NO for me, so...
(I'm amused at how many Bernie signs still appear here on Beacon Hill.)
posted by litlnemo at 2:49 PM on August 15, 2016
OTOH, anyone who is tied to Murray would be an automatic NO for me, so...
(I'm amused at how many Bernie signs still appear here on Beacon Hill.)
posted by litlnemo at 2:49 PM on August 15, 2016
Remember that in the alternate Fringe timeline, 9/11 never happened. Someone ask Giuliani if he has any shares in Massive Dynamic, or commonly takes a blimp to New Jersey, and see what happens.
posted by 0xFCAF at 2:51 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by 0xFCAF at 2:51 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
As kirkaracha pointed out above, there were other successful terrorist attacks before Obama besides 911 too.
posted by bearwife at 2:52 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by bearwife at 2:52 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Slate: No, Rudy Giuliani Did Not “Forget 9/11”
right before this portion of the speech, he said that “[on] Sept. 11, when we went through the worst foreign attack in our history since the War of 1812.”posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:53 PM on August 15, 2016
He then credited Pence’s work on the Patriot Act with preventing more attacks before pivoting to his remarks about eight years without another attack. Giuliani clearly meant there wasn't an attack during the 2001–2009 period after 9/11 and not the entirety of the eight years before Obama took office. Again, this was a poorly worded, misleading statement, but Giuliani clearly did not literally mean that 9/11 didn’t happen.
This is just to say
Crooked Hillary ate the plums in the icebox folks
And by the way – they were the best plums –
The hugest plums – if you know what I mean
Plums you were probably saving for retirement
And by the way – you’ll never see her put any plums in the icebox –
This is what government does, folks –
I will appoint justices that will protect your plums
She’s crazy folks – and these plums
They were delicious – so sweet –
Trust me, folks – forget about the plums
posted by ~ at 2:55 PM on August 15, 2016 [122 favorites]
Crooked Hillary ate the plums in the icebox folks
And by the way – they were the best plums –
The hugest plums – if you know what I mean
Plums you were probably saving for retirement
And by the way – you’ll never see her put any plums in the icebox –
This is what government does, folks –
I will appoint justices that will protect your plums
She’s crazy folks – and these plums
They were delicious – so sweet –
Trust me, folks – forget about the plums
posted by ~ at 2:55 PM on August 15, 2016 [122 favorites]
Slate: No, Rudy Giuliani Did Not “Forget 9/11”
So, as explained above, Slate agrees that Giuliani was 90% correct. I guess my joke wasn't really a joke. Funny how he conveniently chooses the beginning of history to start the day after 9/11.
posted by JackFlash at 3:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
So, as explained above, Slate agrees that Giuliani was 90% correct. I guess my joke wasn't really a joke. Funny how he conveniently chooses the beginning of history to start the day after 9/11.
posted by JackFlash at 3:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
Giuliani clearly meant there wasn't an attack during the 2001–2009 period after 9/11 and not the entirety of the eight years before Obama took office.
But this is also wrong, as there were definitely more attacks during that period. In fact, there were more casualties from terrorism on American soil post-9/11 under Bush than there have been under Obama. Which BTW the author of that piece doesn't mention either.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
But this is also wrong, as there were definitely more attacks during that period. In fact, there were more casualties from terrorism on American soil post-9/11 under Bush than there have been under Obama. Which BTW the author of that piece doesn't mention either.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
I enjoyed listening to the NPR political podcast for a recap of the elections, but based off comments here I get a mixed message of their bias.
Can folks recommend other podcasts, biased (or not), to listen to? I live in Canada so this is for educational more than functional purposes.
posted by olya at 3:02 PM on August 15, 2016
Can folks recommend other podcasts, biased (or not), to listen to? I live in Canada so this is for educational more than functional purposes.
posted by olya at 3:02 PM on August 15, 2016
There was actually a short-lived thread about Teachout's primary win on the blue. As someone pretty close to that district and that election, I largely suspect that her win had a lot more to do with her name recognition (and associated fundraising) as the candidate of the choice for anti-Cuomo democrats in the state, and very little to do with Bernie's support.
(Personally, much as I like Teachout, I preferred one of her opponent in the primary for reasons I touched on briefly in that thread. New York State politics is... complicated)
posted by Itaxpica at 3:02 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
(Personally, much as I like Teachout, I preferred one of her opponent in the primary for reasons I touched on briefly in that thread. New York State politics is... complicated)
posted by Itaxpica at 3:02 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Jon Ritzheimer Pleads Guilty In Oregon Refuge Standoff Case, wherein I learn that "Ritzheimer is a well-known anti-government activist who threatened a citizen's arrest of U.S. Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) for supporting the Obama administration's nuclear deal with Iran."
back up off my senator, you weird oath-making creep
posted by palindromic at 3:03 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
back up off my senator, you weird oath-making creep
posted by palindromic at 3:03 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
Remember that in the alternate Fringe timeline, 9/11 never happened.
In the alternate Republican timeline, the anthrax attacks never happened.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:03 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
Giuliani clearly meant there wasn't an attack during the 2001–2009 period after 9/11 and not the entirety of the eight years before Obama took office.
...but aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
posted by indubitable at 3:04 PM on August 15, 2016 [27 favorites]
...but aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
posted by indubitable at 3:04 PM on August 15, 2016 [27 favorites]
Can folks recommend other podcasts, biased (or not)
fivethirtyeight politics
Slate's Political Gabfest
Vox's The Weeds
Slate Trumpcast
I cycle through these and then wait for the next week
posted by zutalors! at 3:04 PM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
Slate: No, Rudy Giuliani Did Not “Forget 9/11”
So, as explained above, Slate agrees that Giuliani was 90% correct. I guess my joke wasn't really a joke. Funny how he conveniently chooses the beginning of history to start the day after 9/11.
Anthrax.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:05 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
So, as explained above, Slate agrees that Giuliani was 90% correct. I guess my joke wasn't really a joke. Funny how he conveniently chooses the beginning of history to start the day after 9/11.
Anthrax.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:05 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Giuliani was utterly full of it whether or not you include 911. Here again is kirkaracha's link to politifact, which rates Giuliani's statements as "pants on fire."
posted by bearwife at 3:06 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by bearwife at 3:06 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Slate Trumpcast
If you go far enough back on the Trumpcast, you get the fascinating episode where Hanna Rosin asks her mother why her mother intends to vote for Trump.
posted by puddledork at 3:06 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
If you go far enough back on the Trumpcast, you get the fascinating episode where Hanna Rosin asks her mother why her mother intends to vote for Trump.
posted by puddledork at 3:06 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Rick Wiles: 'God Has Picked' Donald Trump To 'Beat Down The Walls Of The New World Order'
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:07 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
“Donald Trump is telling the truth: Obama and Clinton are behind ISIS. This is what ‘Trunews’ has said for years,” Wiles said.He probably isn't listening to Trunews but someone who does listen to Trunews may have tweeted him. Blaming Obama and Clinton for ISIS is more than likely something that came out of Trump's own addled brain. Obama and Clinton are evil, corrupt, and crooked so the game is to blame them for everything bad in the world and in America even if reality has to be bent and broken beyond repair. I like the fact that the cohost of the show thinks it is scary that Trump listens though and I really like that God has chosen Trump to be a battering ram. That "hair" is tough stuff.
“It’s like he’s listening to ‘Trunews,’” cohost Doc Burkhart interjected. “It’s kind of scary.”
Later, Wiles said of Trump: “It’s like he’s a battering ram, it’s like God has picked him up and used him as a battering ram to beat down the walls of the New World Order.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:07 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Can folks recommend other podcasts, biased (or not), to listen to? I live in Canada so this is for educational more than functional purposes.
* Keepin' it 1600 (The Ringer) - two ex-Obama staffers, so very biased/insidery (in a good way)
* Trumpcast (Slate) - impressive variety of subjects considering the singular focus, and also very funny. you can go back through the archives as they're rarely dated
I subscribe to these too:
* Politico's 2016 Nerdcast
* Off Message (Politico)
* Primary Concerns (New Republic)
* Political Gabfest (Slate)
* NPR Politics
* DecodeDC (Scripps)
* Fivethirtyeight Elections
* Politics and More (The New Yorker)
posted by acidic at 3:08 PM on August 15, 2016 [19 favorites]
* Keepin' it 1600 (The Ringer) - two ex-Obama staffers, so very biased/insidery (in a good way)
* Trumpcast (Slate) - impressive variety of subjects considering the singular focus, and also very funny. you can go back through the archives as they're rarely dated
I subscribe to these too:
* Politico's 2016 Nerdcast
* Off Message (Politico)
* Primary Concerns (New Republic)
* Political Gabfest (Slate)
* NPR Politics
* DecodeDC (Scripps)
* Fivethirtyeight Elections
* Politics and More (The New Yorker)
posted by acidic at 3:08 PM on August 15, 2016 [19 favorites]
Igor Bobic: Khizr Khan Challenges Donald Trump To Take A Naturalization Test
“I challenge Trump to take the naturalization test with me any day. His is demagoguery and pandering for vote. A divider like Trump can never be the steward of this country,” he said.posted by zombieflanders at 3:08 PM on August 15, 2016 [40 favorites]
The Khans emerged as some of the sharpest critics of Trump and his proposal to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. after their appearance at the Democratic convention in Philadelphia. The Gold Star family has since been subject to numerous attacks from the GOP nominee and his campaign. Just last week, Trump’s New York campaign co-chairman Carl Paladino said Trump didn’t need to refer to Khan as a “Gold Star parent” because he is “a member of the Muslim Brotherhood.”
This was linked upthread: Terrorism in the United States, 2000-2009.
There were many terrorism incidents during the Bush years, including the Beltway Sniper, the LAX shooting, the Capitol Hill massacre and the Seattle Jewish Federation shooting.
Giuliani is once again trying to re-write history.
posted by zarq at 3:13 PM on August 15, 2016 [26 favorites]
There were many terrorism incidents during the Bush years, including the Beltway Sniper, the LAX shooting, the Capitol Hill massacre and the Seattle Jewish Federation shooting.
Giuliani is once again trying to re-write history.
posted by zarq at 3:13 PM on August 15, 2016 [26 favorites]
I use favorites as bookmarks sometimes. Maude, forgive me.
posted by Sophie1 at 3:13 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 3:13 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
So I'm not sure if it makes sense to mention this in the midst of this thread, but I was walking around where I live a couple of days ago, and I was noticing some new political yard signs that had come up. This is a historically diverse area of Seattle that has seen a ton of gentrification, so you see a mix of all housing types - age, size, you name it.
I actually don't see a ton of political signage around here with the exception of the Bernie supporters who are keeping their signs up, but I saw two new political signs across the street from each other... One of the signs was for for Clinton, which was in the yard of a very modest house - Probably 2BR at most, well taken care of, probably mid-century, but nothing flashy. The Clinton sign is perpendicular to the house, you can easily see it as you travel by. It made me smile, as I haven't seen any Clinton signs here until just then.
Across the street was an absurdly large multi-level house with immaculate landscaping- Lots of new additions, and lots of modern touches. You can smell the money that has been put in this house - This is a house that clearly would sell for near 2mil, if not above. They had a sign in their yard, clearly much larger than the Clinton sign, placed parallel to the house - It wasn't very visible until you were right in front of the house, meaning that it was most visible if you were in the Clinton supporting household. If you don't live around here, you may guess that it was a Trump sign, but I think the 6 supporters in the city know better than to show signage.... No, it was for Jill Stein - seemingly placed only to be a middle finger to the Clinton supporting household.
This seemed very fitting for the current political climate here.
posted by MysticMCJ at 3:14 PM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
I actually don't see a ton of political signage around here with the exception of the Bernie supporters who are keeping their signs up, but I saw two new political signs across the street from each other... One of the signs was for for Clinton, which was in the yard of a very modest house - Probably 2BR at most, well taken care of, probably mid-century, but nothing flashy. The Clinton sign is perpendicular to the house, you can easily see it as you travel by. It made me smile, as I haven't seen any Clinton signs here until just then.
Across the street was an absurdly large multi-level house with immaculate landscaping- Lots of new additions, and lots of modern touches. You can smell the money that has been put in this house - This is a house that clearly would sell for near 2mil, if not above. They had a sign in their yard, clearly much larger than the Clinton sign, placed parallel to the house - It wasn't very visible until you were right in front of the house, meaning that it was most visible if you were in the Clinton supporting household. If you don't live around here, you may guess that it was a Trump sign, but I think the 6 supporters in the city know better than to show signage.... No, it was for Jill Stein - seemingly placed only to be a middle finger to the Clinton supporting household.
This seemed very fitting for the current political climate here.
posted by MysticMCJ at 3:14 PM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
Giuliani clearly meant there wasn't an attack during the 2001–2009 period after 9/11 and not the entirety of the eight years before Obama took office.
It's still completely wrong.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:16 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
It's still completely wrong.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:16 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
we went through the worst foreign attack in our history since the War of 1812
Wrong again. More people were killed in the attack on Pearl Harbor (2,403) than during the entire War of 1812 (2,260).
2,108 Americans (and 1,567 Confederates) were killed during the Battle of Antietam. 3,155 Americans (and 3,903 Confederates) were killed during the Battle of Gettysburg. For certain definitions of "foreign attack."
posted by kirkaracha at 3:19 PM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
So if we're swapping anecdotes about lawn signs, the pro-gun, Far Right Christians who kept their "Another Family for McCain/Palin" up for a year after the election was over and had a "Keep Your Hands Off My HealthCare" sign in their window for years, they have nothing....zippo...bupkis. We have a few Bernie signs still up, no Clinton signs yet but I predict there will be.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:19 PM on August 15, 2016
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:19 PM on August 15, 2016
Daniel Dale: Example of the campaign quality gap: Clinton's Utah op-ed was filled with Mormon content. Trump's is generic Trump
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:22 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:22 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Worth remembering: Giuliani's 9/11 legacy includes a massive fuckup that was directly connected to over 100 firefighter deaths on 9/11. An estimated 200 firefighters in the North WTC tower didn't receive the evacuation call after the South tower fell, because they were still using inferior radios that didn't work properly in high rise buildings and in deeper subway tunnels. The Firefighter's union and the NYFD had compiled a report that was on Giuliani's desk the day he took office, about how those same radios had failed during the 1993 WTC bombing. Giuliani had 8 years to fix the problem. He failed and over 100 first responders, who ran into a building that burned for over 100 minutes before it collapsed, paid the price.
Every police officer made it out of the North tower before it came down. 121 firefighters did not.
Rudy Giuliani can go fuck himself.
posted by zarq at 3:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [214 favorites]
Every police officer made it out of the North tower before it came down. 121 firefighters did not.
Rudy Giuliani can go fuck himself.
posted by zarq at 3:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [214 favorites]
The Great Mulligan:
Thus do we confront what we can call The Great Mulligan, which is granted by the dimmer lights in the chandelier to the president and to the national security team — Hi, Condi! — who presided over the most massive intelligence failure in American history, and over the greatest loss of life to an enemy attack on American soil since everybody hugged it out at Appomattox. This has popped up from time to time in the years since it became obvious what a complete and utter failure the Bush presidency really was. Sorry we lied you into a war, but we kept you safe. Sorry we demolished American values, and just about every shred of American moral credibility in the world, but we kept you safe. Sorry we let New Orleans drown, but we kept you safe. Sorry we allowed the national economy to blow up, but we kept you safe. In fact, if you sent C-Plus Augustus into his own museum, and had him take that interactive quiz, and provided he didn't break a thumb trying to get a Diet Coke out of the exhibit, his answer to everything would be I kept you safe.posted by kirkaracha at 3:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
No. In fact, you didn't. Stop saying that before 3000 ghosts come to your room some night and pummel you with ectoplasmic bags of sheep dung.
Triumph the Insult Comic Dog - Trump Supporters React to Outrageous Campaign Ads
For anyone who missed Rhomboid's post above
posted by Brian B. at 3:27 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
For anyone who missed Rhomboid's post above
posted by Brian B. at 3:27 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Rick Wiles: 'God Has Picked' Donald Trump To 'Beat Down The Walls Of The New World Order'
Nobody has benefited more from 'The New World Order' than Donald Trump. (And I LOVE this weird use of the word "walls") Without the system of inequality built up in the last 40 years, Donald Trump would have never risen above a small-time real estate hustler making frequent use of a lawyer like "Better Call" Saul.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:33 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Nobody has benefited more from 'The New World Order' than Donald Trump. (And I LOVE this weird use of the word "walls") Without the system of inequality built up in the last 40 years, Donald Trump would have never risen above a small-time real estate hustler making frequent use of a lawyer like "Better Call" Saul.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:33 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
This is just to say that I, too, went away for three days (hi, ShowbizLiz) and it has taken me till now to catch up.
Thank you for the [fake|real] tags to help me along, although Paul Manafort literally ("literally") being in the (cash) pay of shadowy Russian figures is something that I wouldn't believe even with [real] tags if the NYT didn't have it as a headline. Wow.
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:34 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Thank you for the [fake|real] tags to help me along, although Paul Manafort literally ("literally") being in the (cash) pay of shadowy Russian figures is something that I wouldn't believe even with [real] tags if the NYT didn't have it as a headline. Wow.
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:34 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Re: the Jill Stein lawn sign, I mean -- isn't the entire point of supporting Jill Stein to say "fuck you" to Democrats? I'd guess that the actual number of people who support Jill Stein who believe in the Green platform is a lot lower than the number of people who support Jill Stein because "Shillary"
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 3:38 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 3:38 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
Ending soon - Donald of the Dead comic book about a zombie Trump presidency; $3 gets the digital version.
If I have to seriously think about Donald Trump being in charge of the US, I want zombie-apoc artwork to go with those thoughts.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:48 PM on August 15, 2016
If I have to seriously think about Donald Trump being in charge of the US, I want zombie-apoc artwork to go with those thoughts.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:48 PM on August 15, 2016
Re podcasts: Keepin It 1600 fulfills my need for heavy inside baseball.
Re lawn signs: noticeable uptick here in Hillary signage recently. Still no Trump, but that's not really surprising.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:50 PM on August 15, 2016
Re lawn signs: noticeable uptick here in Hillary signage recently. Still no Trump, but that's not really surprising.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:50 PM on August 15, 2016
Sorry, but your astute election posts aren't changing anybody's mind
...according to new research from the social media marketing firm Rantic. It recently surveyed more than 10,000 people on Facebook, spread evenly across political affiliations. It found that 94 percent of Republicans, 92 percent of Democrats, and 85 percent of independents say they have never changed their view of an issue because of a Facebook post. The majority of people from all political affiliations also say social media is an inappropriate place to express political beliefs. That’s despite the fact that the survey showed 39 percent of Republicans, 34 percent of Democrats, and 26 percent of independents have posted political content on Facebook.posted by zakur at 3:59 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
But presumably that means 6% of Republicans, 8% of Democrats, and 15% of independents say they have changed their view of an issue because of a Facebook post. Realizing the futility of changing anybody's mind, that's still within the margin of victory on many elections.
And minds do change somehow. How did gay marriage gain so much support over the past decade? Surely people normalizing it and talking about it played a role.
posted by zachlipton at 4:05 PM on August 15, 2016 [24 favorites]
And minds do change somehow. How did gay marriage gain so much support over the past decade? Surely people normalizing it and talking about it played a role.
posted by zachlipton at 4:05 PM on August 15, 2016 [24 favorites]
say they have never changed their view of an issue because of a Facebook post.
Taking this data from self-reporting seems worthless at best. Most people believe they've never changed their minds about anything. And if they did change their minds, they think it was because of an extended meditation on the nature of the true meaning of reality or something. I've changed my mind on some things based on what I've read here and other places, but I wouldn't point to any individual comment as the thing that flipped me over entirely. It's gradual.
No one thinks they changed their mind because they saw 75 FB posts over the course of the last 5 years supporting equal rights for gay people, but it was almost certainly an important factor. We derive our own sense of what is and isn't correct by seeing what the people around us believe.
posted by 0xFCAF at 4:06 PM on August 15, 2016 [53 favorites]
Taking this data from self-reporting seems worthless at best. Most people believe they've never changed their minds about anything. And if they did change their minds, they think it was because of an extended meditation on the nature of the true meaning of reality or something. I've changed my mind on some things based on what I've read here and other places, but I wouldn't point to any individual comment as the thing that flipped me over entirely. It's gradual.
No one thinks they changed their mind because they saw 75 FB posts over the course of the last 5 years supporting equal rights for gay people, but it was almost certainly an important factor. We derive our own sense of what is and isn't correct by seeing what the people around us believe.
posted by 0xFCAF at 4:06 PM on August 15, 2016 [53 favorites]
It seems like a surprisingly bad-faith interpretation of a political yardsign to suggest its purpose is to function as "a middle finger" to another household.
Unless, you know, it's a TRUMP sign.
posted by valkane at 4:07 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Unless, you know, it's a TRUMP sign.
posted by valkane at 4:07 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Given how slowly the Hillary store gets its merch out, I suspect there will continue to be an uptick in sign abundance as signs ordered during the DNC finally arrive. I have not yet received mine, for example.
posted by palindromic at 4:07 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by palindromic at 4:07 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
State of signs in the heartland: Drove through town last night. In my tiny Kansas village of 700, this didn't take long. There are no Trump signs at all. Even from the usual suspects who had Romney signs, and currently have signs for various downticket Republican candidates. Even the asshole with the confederate flag up is Trump-free. This town went 75% for the Republican in 2008 & 2012.
Also haven't noticed any on the farms nearby, nor in the nearby small cities.
posted by honestcoyote at 4:07 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
Also haven't noticed any on the farms nearby, nor in the nearby small cities.
posted by honestcoyote at 4:07 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
It seems like a surprisingly bad-faith interpretation of a political yardsign to suggest its purpose is to function as "a middle finger" to another household.
once you rule out "spite," all the reasons for vocally supporting Jill Stein require even worse-faith assumptions, tho
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:09 PM on August 15, 2016 [20 favorites]
once you rule out "spite," all the reasons for vocally supporting Jill Stein require even worse-faith assumptions, tho
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:09 PM on August 15, 2016 [20 favorites]
Trying to change any particular person's mind is futile, but having political conversations in public exposes observers to both sides' views.
Conversations on Metafilter have definitely influenced my opinions in the past. But maybe people here are especially persuasive.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 4:10 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
Conversations on Metafilter have definitely influenced my opinions in the past. But maybe people here are especially persuasive.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 4:10 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
once you rule out "spite," all the reasons for vocally supporting Jill Stein require even worse-faith assumptions, tho
No. Ignorance and the name "Green Party" is enough for some, and is nowhere near as bad faith as spite.
posted by Francis at 4:10 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
No. Ignorance and the name "Green Party" is enough for some, and is nowhere near as bad faith as spite.
posted by Francis at 4:10 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
It seems like a surprisingly bad-faith interpretation of a political yardsign to suggest its purpose is to function as "a middle finger" to another household.
Let he who hath not posted a pro-gay, pro-choice or pro-Obama link on Facebook after seeing some right-wing bullshit on a friend's TL cast the first stone
posted by Countess Elena at 4:14 PM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
Let he who hath not posted a pro-gay, pro-choice or pro-Obama link on Facebook after seeing some right-wing bullshit on a friend's TL cast the first stone
posted by Countess Elena at 4:14 PM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
Let he who hath not posted a pro-gay, pro-choice or pro-Obama link on Facebook after seeing some right-wing bullshit on a friend's TL cast the first stone
Woohoo! Permission!
*picks up a giant rock with enthusiasm, then realizes this is the one place he wouldn't care to throw one during this election cycle*
D'oh.
posted by mordax at 4:21 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Woohoo! Permission!
*picks up a giant rock with enthusiasm, then realizes this is the one place he wouldn't care to throw one during this election cycle*
D'oh.
posted by mordax at 4:21 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Jill Stein is polling at somewhere between 2 and 4% of the electorate. I'm inclined to think that people who are supporting Stein are people who would probably not support any mainstream Democrat, and I think that's a perfectly principled stance, although I don't agree with it.
I've run into some former Bernie supporters who are supporting Gary Johnson, and I have a really hard time coming up with any flattering explanation for that.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:21 PM on August 15, 2016 [20 favorites]
I've run into some former Bernie supporters who are supporting Gary Johnson, and I have a really hard time coming up with any flattering explanation for that.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:21 PM on August 15, 2016 [20 favorites]
Conversations on Metafilter have definitely influenced my opinions in the past. But maybe people here are especially persuasive.
Oh, more than that, much more. I find it indispensable to the continuing maturation of my thought, such as it is. I'm about to post to MeTa about this, actually, but a decent chunk of my new book simply wouldn't exist if it hadn't been for the things I first read about here, and all the different perspectives I've been exposed to through your posts and comments. (I don't think either of them are on this thread, but I want to call out Frowner and kliuless for this in particular, in their very different ways.)
It's especially vital at a time when powerful voices are sowing epistemic confusion, undermining any sense that there is or can be a shared reality. Just the idea that there is this place where so many different voices contend, so generously and so unpretentiously, and in so doing knit together just such a shared reality...well, it's an extraordinary gift. I've said as much before, but I'm grateful every day to Matt for kicking this thing off, to the moderators for stewarding it so patiently, and to each of you for making it what it is. Keep on doing what you do, and we'll get through this thing together.
posted by adamgreenfield at 4:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [70 favorites]
Oh, more than that, much more. I find it indispensable to the continuing maturation of my thought, such as it is. I'm about to post to MeTa about this, actually, but a decent chunk of my new book simply wouldn't exist if it hadn't been for the things I first read about here, and all the different perspectives I've been exposed to through your posts and comments. (I don't think either of them are on this thread, but I want to call out Frowner and kliuless for this in particular, in their very different ways.)
It's especially vital at a time when powerful voices are sowing epistemic confusion, undermining any sense that there is or can be a shared reality. Just the idea that there is this place where so many different voices contend, so generously and so unpretentiously, and in so doing knit together just such a shared reality...well, it's an extraordinary gift. I've said as much before, but I'm grateful every day to Matt for kicking this thing off, to the moderators for stewarding it so patiently, and to each of you for making it what it is. Keep on doing what you do, and we'll get through this thing together.
posted by adamgreenfield at 4:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [70 favorites]
No one thinks they changed their mind because they saw 75 FB posts over the course of the last 5 years supporting equal rights for gay people, but it was almost certainly an important factor. We derive our own sense of what is and isn't correct by seeing what the people around us believe.
Favorited so hard. Asking people in surveys to describe the reasons they hold the views they hold is so goddamn stupid. I'm an amazingly enlightened and wise person and even I have no insight into my own mental states.
I personally dislike making political statements on social media, but I have grudgingly come to decide I should at least "like" when my friends post pro-life and pro-hillary stuff, because I think it's important as hell to normalize those views, just as important as it is to show how pro-Trumpism is not normal. Also, as a pretty privileged person, think it's in bad taste to let my less privileged friends who have more gain/lose from this election stick their necks out without me saying anything.
posted by skewed at 4:26 PM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
Favorited so hard. Asking people in surveys to describe the reasons they hold the views they hold is so goddamn stupid. I'm an amazingly enlightened and wise person and even I have no insight into my own mental states.
I personally dislike making political statements on social media, but I have grudgingly come to decide I should at least "like" when my friends post pro-life and pro-hillary stuff, because I think it's important as hell to normalize those views, just as important as it is to show how pro-Trumpism is not normal. Also, as a pretty privileged person, think it's in bad taste to let my less privileged friends who have more gain/lose from this election stick their necks out without me saying anything.
posted by skewed at 4:26 PM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
many people are asking questions about Donald Trump's *mental* health
that's ridiculous - he's clearly as mentally healthy as the 40% or so of the populace who want to vote for him
um
if anyone wants me i'll just be hiding under my bed
posted by pyramid termite at 4:31 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
that's ridiculous - he's clearly as mentally healthy as the 40% or so of the populace who want to vote for him
um
if anyone wants me i'll just be hiding under my bed
posted by pyramid termite at 4:31 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Listening to the NPR Politics podcast. Looks like they are thinking that maybe Trump might not even pivot ever after all
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:32 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:32 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile in Palm Beach, Florida...
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:35 PM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
Members of the Trump National Golf Club have filed a $6 million lawsuit against Trump claiming that he banned them from his club, despite taking their money.I'm starting to wonder how Trump can afford to defend himself from all these lawsuits. How many? Oh yeah, 3,500 in the past 30 years and 70 filed since he declared his candidacy.
The members testified Monday that they were told that while they were waiting to cancel their memberships, they could still use the club as long as they paid their dues.
They said Trump didn’t honor that agreement, and banned members who claim they were paying their dues.
Trump is also accused of not returning their deposits ranging from $35,000 to $215, 000.
Trump's son, Eric, who runs the property, told attorneys during a deposition that no one was banned from the club unless their accounts were delinquent
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:35 PM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
It seems like a surprisingly bad-faith interpretation of a political yardsign to suggest its purpose is to function as "a middle finger" to another household.
Maybe I've been here too long, but a Jill Stein sign on a Seattle yard seems pretty normal to me, to the extent that seeing a house in Seattle with a front yard would be "normal", these days.
A Trump sign on a Seattle yard would be a definite middle-finger, though probably one more intended for any and all passersby, not necessarily just for the neighbors.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 4:35 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maybe I've been here too long, but a Jill Stein sign on a Seattle yard seems pretty normal to me, to the extent that seeing a house in Seattle with a front yard would be "normal", these days.
A Trump sign on a Seattle yard would be a definite middle-finger, though probably one more intended for any and all passersby, not necessarily just for the neighbors.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 4:35 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Spent about 3 hours driving around in the Shenandoah River country near Skyline Drive in VA this weekend. Confederate flags sighted: countless. Trump signs sighted: 1.
posted by sallybrown at 4:38 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 4:38 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Human Rights Campaign would like to have a word with Donald over his speech today (and his appearance at the anti-LGBTQ event in Orlando last week.)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:39 PM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:39 PM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
It seems like a surprisingly bad-faith interpretation of a political yardsign to suggest its purpose is to function as "a middle finger" to another household.
I believe the point was that it was facing the house opposite rather than the traffic.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:41 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
I believe the point was that it was facing the house opposite rather than the traffic.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:41 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Members of the Trump National Golf Club have filed a $6 million lawsuit against Trump claiming that he banned them from his club, despite taking their money.
they weren't orange enough
posted by pyramid termite at 4:41 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
they weren't orange enough
posted by pyramid termite at 4:41 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Someone mentioned in the prior thread that they smelled a rat with regard to the magic $80 million fundraising haul that appeared seemingly out of nowhere in Trump's last fundraising announcement. I join you in truther-land. Something about this sets off my bullshit radar.
posted by sallybrown at 4:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 4:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
There's this absolutely gorgeous house in a neighborhood near me that I look forward to driving past just so I can slow down and marvel at its architectural perfection. I passed it yesterday and its best feature - these lovely, large, tasteful bay windows - were totally obscured by a massive Trump/Pence banner.
I was less offended by the fact that this family supports Trump and more that they would mar the aesthetic perfection of their house with a political banner - or any banner. Their window will no doubt be blocked through election day and that's a bitter pill.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I was less offended by the fact that this family supports Trump and more that they would mar the aesthetic perfection of their house with a political banner - or any banner. Their window will no doubt be blocked through election day and that's a bitter pill.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
My sweet little mama, who lives in Mississippi, had an Obama sign in her yard last election. It was repeatedly stolen/vandalized. Once, her neighbors came over with her mangled sign and told her it had been thrown in their trash, and "we don't agree politically, but it is shameful that someone would destroy your sign." I can't imagine such civility in a Trump supporter.
posted by thebrokedown at 4:49 PM on August 15, 2016 [37 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 4:49 PM on August 15, 2016 [37 favorites]
Members of the Trump National Golf Club have filed a $6 million lawsuit against Trump claiming that he banned them from his club, despite taking their money.
Well I was wondering why all these people decided to cancel their memberships. Bad golf course or just don't want to be associated with Trump? From the sketchy details it sounds like they paid a hefty fee to join plus they paid dues but then wanted to cancel. I guess they wanted the initial fee back but continued to pay the monthly dues while awaiting the return of their money. I can't figure out the reason for Eric to ban them while they were waiting termination of their membership-- not if he continued to collect their monthly fees.
Someone mentioned in the prior thread that they smelled a rat with regard to the magic $80 million fundraising haul that appeared seemingly out of nowhere in Trump's last fundraising announcement. I join you in truther-land. Something about this sets off my bullshit radar.
I didn't think he could have raised the $35 million in June that he boasted about but it did show up in the FEC report. He went from zero fund raising to $35 million in one month and he had to sweeten the pot with the "I will match your funds up to $2 million" email. I can only assume some heavy hitters decided to give him a chance in July. We'll see if they felt they got their money's worth.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:52 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well I was wondering why all these people decided to cancel their memberships. Bad golf course or just don't want to be associated with Trump? From the sketchy details it sounds like they paid a hefty fee to join plus they paid dues but then wanted to cancel. I guess they wanted the initial fee back but continued to pay the monthly dues while awaiting the return of their money. I can't figure out the reason for Eric to ban them while they were waiting termination of their membership-- not if he continued to collect their monthly fees.
Someone mentioned in the prior thread that they smelled a rat with regard to the magic $80 million fundraising haul that appeared seemingly out of nowhere in Trump's last fundraising announcement. I join you in truther-land. Something about this sets off my bullshit radar.
I didn't think he could have raised the $35 million in June that he boasted about but it did show up in the FEC report. He went from zero fund raising to $35 million in one month and he had to sweeten the pot with the "I will match your funds up to $2 million" email. I can only assume some heavy hitters decided to give him a chance in July. We'll see if they felt they got their money's worth.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:52 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
oh the NPR Politics podcast ended with them complaining about how Hillary has a podcast now in a devious attempt to evade their hardhitting journalism
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:53 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:53 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
The rumors about Clinton's health are particularly exasperating, given Trump's ridiculous doctor's letter written by Dr. Spaceman.
The most outrageous thing here to me is that, if the file path is to be believed, Trump's team apparently thinks PDF is an image format.
posted by rorgy at 4:56 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
The most outrageous thing here to me is that, if the file path is to be believed, Trump's team apparently thinks PDF is an image format.
posted by rorgy at 4:56 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Do the Koch brothers fund NPR these days ?
posted by Yowser at 4:56 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 4:56 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
In other Washington news, Clinton +19. But more interestingly, Jill Stein polls at 4% -- and WA is a state she should be doing well in. 4% is barely above her national numbers.
posted by dw at 4:56 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by dw at 4:56 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
oh the NPR Politics podcast ended with them complaining about how Hillary has a podcast now in devious attempt to evade their hard-hitting journalism
I'm not sure it's possible to communicate my complete disappointment and disaffection with NPR these past few weeks. Short of a full page ad in the NYT with a list of the senior editorial staff they've sent to Fox News, they will never get another penny from me.
posted by Mooski at 4:57 PM on August 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
I'm not sure it's possible to communicate my complete disappointment and disaffection with NPR these past few weeks. Short of a full page ad in the NYT with a list of the senior editorial staff they've sent to Fox News, they will never get another penny from me.
posted by Mooski at 4:57 PM on August 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
Trump's team apparently thinks PDF is an image format.
C'mon, you already heard how they handled metadata. Would you really put it past them?
posted by adamgreenfield at 4:57 PM on August 15, 2016
C'mon, you already heard how they handled metadata. Would you really put it past them?
posted by adamgreenfield at 4:57 PM on August 15, 2016
oh the NPR Politics podcast ended with them complaining about how Hillary has a podcast now in a devious attempt to evade their hardhitting journalism
Slate had the same opinion. I'd have more sympathy if journalists wouldn't always start with "WHY ARE YOU SO UNLIKABLE???" every time Hillary offers them an even vaguely press-conference-y opportunity.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 4:58 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Slate had the same opinion. I'd have more sympathy if journalists wouldn't always start with "WHY ARE YOU SO UNLIKABLE???" every time Hillary offers them an even vaguely press-conference-y opportunity.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 4:58 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
To be honest, I think Chicago Public Media does pretty decent local reporting compared to the Trib/Sun-Times/local TV. And national NPR is a good barometer of standard educated Opinion.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:02 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:02 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Just a data point - I've never had a yard sign, but before this thread I would've put it up parallel to the house because I'd be thinking about seeing it from my window / vantage point and not thinking about cars on the street driving by. Perpendicular makes more sense, but...some of us are a bit lacking in common sense that way.
posted by sallybrown at 5:03 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 5:03 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
And national NPR is a good barometer of standard educated Opinion.
Be that as it may, it is not, in my opinion, what they are for.
posted by Mooski at 5:06 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Be that as it may, it is not, in my opinion, what they are for.
posted by Mooski at 5:06 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
We live on a cul de sac, which makes lawn signs even more useless. When I was running every two years to get re-elected to our local Town Council, I did put a sign in our yard (hey, I had 'em), facing the circle. But the only people who saw it were our neighbors and people who were lost.
posted by yhbc at 5:08 PM on August 15, 2016
posted by yhbc at 5:08 PM on August 15, 2016
We also have a front yard sign that's close to and parallel to the house; anyone passing can see it just fine.
Turn it ninety degrees and they could see it better.
before this thread I would've put it up parallel to the house because I'd be thinking about seeing it from my window / vantage point and not thinking about cars on the street driving by
Understandable, but the house cited appeared to be doing it in response to a Clinton supporter who had their signs properly oriented.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:08 PM on August 15, 2016
Turn it ninety degrees and they could see it better.
before this thread I would've put it up parallel to the house because I'd be thinking about seeing it from my window / vantage point and not thinking about cars on the street driving by
Understandable, but the house cited appeared to be doing it in response to a Clinton supporter who had their signs properly oriented.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:08 PM on August 15, 2016
oh the NPR Politics podcast ended with them complaining about how Hillary has a podcast now in devious attempt to evade their hard-hitting journalism
I’m as jazzed as anyone who is in the Hillary camp about the podcast, but it’s pretty clearly a propaganda move that sounds a lot like journalism but is on the whole an advertisement and is also (as far as I know) a first for a major campaign. It’s not hard for me to imagine journalists grousing about it.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:10 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
I’m as jazzed as anyone who is in the Hillary camp about the podcast, but it’s pretty clearly a propaganda move that sounds a lot like journalism but is on the whole an advertisement and is also (as far as I know) a first for a major campaign. It’s not hard for me to imagine journalists grousing about it.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:10 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm starting to wonder how Trump can afford to defend himself from all these lawsuits.
basically he keeps the plaintiffs money and pays for lawyers
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:11 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
basically he keeps the plaintiffs money and pays for lawyers
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:11 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Can folks recommend other podcasts, biased (or not), to listen to? I live in Canada so this is for educational more than functional purposes.
Haven't seen Ken Rudin's Political Junkie, Mid-Atlantic, or Le Show mentioned yet. The Strategists is a few Canadians discussing politics on both sides of the border. Of course right now most of their attention is on the US.
My favorites are The Professional Left Podcast with Driftglass and Blue Gal and Politically Reactive with W. Kamau Bell & Hari Kondabolu.
posted by kingless at 5:13 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Haven't seen Ken Rudin's Political Junkie, Mid-Atlantic, or Le Show mentioned yet. The Strategists is a few Canadians discussing politics on both sides of the border. Of course right now most of their attention is on the US.
My favorites are The Professional Left Podcast with Driftglass and Blue Gal and Politically Reactive with W. Kamau Bell & Hari Kondabolu.
posted by kingless at 5:13 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I’m as jazzed as anyone who is in the Hillary camp about the podcast, but it’s pretty clearly a propaganda move that sounds a lot like journalism but is on the whole an advertisement and is also (as far as I know) a first for a major campaign
I'm not sure whether to count it as a first or not - to me it certainly harks back to the Fireside Chats of FDR.
posted by Francis at 5:15 PM on August 15, 2016
I'm not sure whether to count it as a first or not - to me it certainly harks back to the Fireside Chats of FDR.
posted by Francis at 5:15 PM on August 15, 2016
like a gross miniature billboard.
That's... what a yard sign is? *confused dog-head-tilt*
posted by ctmf at 5:15 PM on August 15, 2016 [32 favorites]
That's... what a yard sign is? *confused dog-head-tilt*
posted by ctmf at 5:15 PM on August 15, 2016 [32 favorites]
I suspect a confederate flag IS a Trump sign.
And I must say I am shocked to hear that neighbors can be passive-aggressive assholes in Seattle, of all places, just shocked.
ETA [sarcasm]
posted by spitbull at 5:16 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
And I must say I am shocked to hear that neighbors can be passive-aggressive assholes in Seattle, of all places, just shocked.
ETA [sarcasm]
posted by spitbull at 5:16 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
It’s not hard for me to imagine journalists grousing about it.
And the people at NPR are pretty annoyed too.
posted by happyroach at 5:19 PM on August 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
And the people at NPR are pretty annoyed too.
posted by happyroach at 5:19 PM on August 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
Slate had the same opinion.
From the last two paragraphs:
What makes this all the more frustrating is that not three weeks prior, Michelle Goldberg wrote another Slate piece that pretty comprehensively deconstructs and takes down a lot of the tropes and psychology of Hillary hatred. One wonders whether she learned anything from writing it.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 5:19 PM on August 15, 2016 [70 favorites]
From the last two paragraphs:
It’s obvious why her campaign wants to present this version of Clinton to the world. Knowing she’s not going to have to field questions about her email or explain her reaction to being widely hated, she can relax and speak like a normal person. She sounds genuine and authentic in a way she rarely does when doing press. Nevertheless, campaign-controlled Potemkin interviews are no substitute for the real thing. It was insulting when Mike Pence, as governor of Indiana, tried to create a state-run news service, “JustIN,” to cover his own administration. Clinton shouldn’t be following in his footsteps.
...Clinton’s campaign isn’t unique in creating propaganda—that’s part of what campaigns do. But a politician attempting to circumvent the media by creating media of her own sets a bad precedent. If Clinton really wants Americans to get to know the woman behind the caricature, she’s going to have to start giving interviews to people who don’t work for her.Literally the paragraph after Michelle Goldberg concedes that Hillary Clinton has spent decades answering the same inane questions from interviewer after interviewer, she demands that Hillary receive the same treatment all over again because that's the only way people will "get to know" her. And literally the paragraph before she acknowledges that it's a campaign podcast, meaning paid for by the campaign whose sole purpose is to advertise Hillary Clinton, she equates it to "propaganda" and a state-run media service paid for by taxpayers.
What makes this all the more frustrating is that not three weeks prior, Michelle Goldberg wrote another Slate piece that pretty comprehensively deconstructs and takes down a lot of the tropes and psychology of Hillary hatred. One wonders whether she learned anything from writing it.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 5:19 PM on August 15, 2016 [70 favorites]
I’m not sure whether to count it as a first or not - to me it certainly harks back to the Fireside Chats of FDR.
Oh, it certainly hearkens back to that - and I thought Obama did something similar with YouTube for a bit. I specifically meant the candidate having a podcast, not some other dedicated item.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:19 PM on August 15, 2016
Oh, it certainly hearkens back to that - and I thought Obama did something similar with YouTube for a bit. I specifically meant the candidate having a podcast, not some other dedicated item.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:19 PM on August 15, 2016
I'm starting to wonder how Trump can afford to defend himself from all these lawsuits.
I litigated on behalf of a supremely Trumpian figure for a while (until I fled private practice) and he routinely stiffed the firm on his bills as a way to negotiate down his fees. Which worked, because...that part I never quite understood.
posted by sallybrown at 5:20 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
I litigated on behalf of a supremely Trumpian figure for a while (until I fled private practice) and he routinely stiffed the firm on his bills as a way to negotiate down his fees. Which worked, because...that part I never quite understood.
posted by sallybrown at 5:20 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
"Appeared to be doing it in response" is what I meant by an assumption of bad faith
Well, either they were being dicks to their neighbors, or they failed to grasp the best way to display their message even when presented with a better way of doing it. So, not necessarily bad faith..
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:21 PM on August 15, 2016
Well, either they were being dicks to their neighbors, or they failed to grasp the best way to display their message even when presented with a better way of doing it. So, not necessarily bad faith..
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:21 PM on August 15, 2016
The Rude Pundit: Donald Trump Says Another Goddamn Thing or Other
posted by homunculus at 5:27 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 5:27 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Best" is a fairly subjective term when it comes to adornments of one's living space, man.
I'm sure that sign really tied the lawn together.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:29 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Guys, it's time to stop fighting about signs and come together, because Egg McMuffin officially made it onto the ballot in Utah!
posted by sallybrown at 5:32 PM on August 15, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 5:32 PM on August 15, 2016 [18 favorites]
Guys, it's time to stop fighting about signs and come together, because Egg McMuffin officially made it onto the ballot in Utah!
I'm concerned his long standing ties to the Hamburgler are going to tank his chances though.
posted by mordax at 5:33 PM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
I'm concerned his long standing ties to the Hamburgler are going to tank his chances though.
posted by mordax at 5:33 PM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
We included Evan McMullin on our Texas poll and he got 0 --@ppppolls
posted by zachlipton at 5:33 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:33 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
So how did crazy ex-general Michael Flynn end up at the same Putin dinner as Jill Stein? Same table, even. There's a picture here.
posted by Biblio at 5:34 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Biblio at 5:34 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
I’m not sure whether to count it as a first or not - to me it certainly harks back to the Fireside Chats of FDR.
Although almost no one sees them, Obama has done a weekly address on video since his first days in office, almost 200 of them now. I guess they will be useful for some historians in the future to mine for his contemporaneous thinking on various political topics.
posted by JackFlash at 5:36 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Although almost no one sees them, Obama has done a weekly address on video since his first days in office, almost 200 of them now. I guess they will be useful for some historians in the future to mine for his contemporaneous thinking on various political topics.
posted by JackFlash at 5:36 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Buncha crazy people arguing about the right way to have a yard sign
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:36 PM on August 15, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:36 PM on August 15, 2016 [22 favorites]
I should have known that what was meant to be an off-hand comment would escalate into a discussion of proper sign handling.
My first thought (and more to the point) when I saw the opulent Stein-haus was "Well, this person clearly has nothing to lose." Musings on signage protocol and orientation came later.
posted by MysticMCJ at 5:39 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
My first thought (and more to the point) when I saw the opulent Stein-haus was "Well, this person clearly has nothing to lose." Musings on signage protocol and orientation came later.
posted by MysticMCJ at 5:39 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
what if the yard sign has a gold fringe
what then
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [34 favorites]
what then
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [34 favorites]
So how did crazy ex-general Michael Flynn end up at the same Putin dinner as Jill Stein? Same table, even. There's a picture here.
What in the actual hell? ?? ??? This made me pause for a sec and finally wonder whether this campaign cycle has just been some kind of extended nightmare I'm having.
posted by sallybrown at 5:42 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
What in the actual hell? ?? ??? This made me pause for a sec and finally wonder whether this campaign cycle has just been some kind of extended nightmare I'm having.
posted by sallybrown at 5:42 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
clearly that's why yard signs have historically not been effective - everyone can tell they are admiralty signs.
posted by MysticMCJ at 5:42 PM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by MysticMCJ at 5:42 PM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
This is how to plate your beans.
posted by localhuman at 5:43 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 5:43 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Okay that link to Public Policy Polls twitter... More like Public Policy Trolls, amirite?
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:43 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:43 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
MetaFilter: I should have known that what was meant to be an off-hand comment would escalate into a discussion
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:46 PM on August 15, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:46 PM on August 15, 2016 [22 favorites]
From PPP: Gary Johnson 6, Deez Nuts 3, Harambe 2, Jill Stein 2, Evan McMullin 0
posted by Francis at 5:47 PM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by Francis at 5:47 PM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
Please god make Putin keep his hands off our Egg McMuffin.
posted by sallybrown at 5:47 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 5:47 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
The most outrageous thing here to me is that, if the file path is to be believed, Trump's team apparently thinks PDF is an image format.
A lot of people think that, because many scanners "scan to PDF;" users are not aware that actually means "scan to tiff or jpg and convert to PDF."
The letter from the doctor is an image-only PDF (either scanned on a machine with a feeder that has a dark speck on the glass, or photocopied first on something that has a smear on an ink roller; that's how you get that streak on the scan); the weird part about it is that it's 8.5" x 8.725"... where's the other two-and-a-quarter inches of height? Did they crop out a letterhead of some sort?
Maybe they cut out the empty space at the bottom, but that's... unusual, at least, in a document that's supposed to look official. And his supposed website - www.haroldbornsteinmd.com - is an empty site, a redirect to ww31.haroldbornsteinmd.com, which is blank.
Why put a URL on your official letterhead if you don't actually have a website? For that matter, why have a letterhead with the names of two doctors, one of which died 5+ years ago? I get that he may be the founder of the practice, but I'd expect you'd replace his name on the documentation.
I would love for someone to track down Dr. Bornstein and find out if that's the standard office letterhead.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:48 PM on August 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
A lot of people think that, because many scanners "scan to PDF;" users are not aware that actually means "scan to tiff or jpg and convert to PDF."
The letter from the doctor is an image-only PDF (either scanned on a machine with a feeder that has a dark speck on the glass, or photocopied first on something that has a smear on an ink roller; that's how you get that streak on the scan); the weird part about it is that it's 8.5" x 8.725"... where's the other two-and-a-quarter inches of height? Did they crop out a letterhead of some sort?
Maybe they cut out the empty space at the bottom, but that's... unusual, at least, in a document that's supposed to look official. And his supposed website - www.haroldbornsteinmd.com - is an empty site, a redirect to ww31.haroldbornsteinmd.com, which is blank.
Why put a URL on your official letterhead if you don't actually have a website? For that matter, why have a letterhead with the names of two doctors, one of which died 5+ years ago? I get that he may be the founder of the practice, but I'd expect you'd replace his name on the documentation.
I would love for someone to track down Dr. Bornstein and find out if that's the standard office letterhead.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:48 PM on August 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
More like Public Policy Trolls, amirite?
They have to do something to keep occupied for the next 3 months, Hilary is pulling out of PA already and that means they're already switching to stretch goals in August.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:49 PM on August 15, 2016
They have to do something to keep occupied for the next 3 months, Hilary is pulling out of PA already and that means they're already switching to stretch goals in August.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:49 PM on August 15, 2016
So I'm consulting on a small County Clerk race, and I heavily advised the candidate not to use yard signs (spend the $$$ on MY services instead!) and meanwhile Mrs. Bastard just put up 2 yard signs for other candidates in other races in our yard and my Clerk Candidate will be dropping by tomorrow and it will be like the Threes Company of boring down-ballot politics because I'm going to either have to hide the fucking signs before he gets here and put them back after he leaves and before my wife gets home or something. So, fuck fucking goddamn yard signs.
posted by Cookiebastard at 5:49 PM on August 15, 2016 [47 favorites]
posted by Cookiebastard at 5:49 PM on August 15, 2016 [47 favorites]
And while I'm at looking through PPP: Trump's in the mid-60s of the GOP vote in a lot of suburban legislative districts we've polled across the country in the last month
That's ... dire.
posted by Francis at 5:50 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
That's ... dire.
posted by Francis at 5:50 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
General Flynn "volunteers" for RT?
Holy shit.
posted by Yowser at 5:50 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Holy shit.
posted by Yowser at 5:50 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Wouldn't forging a medical document be some sort of crime? Though of course no one would forge a document for public release instead of just...
*trump's razor quivers menacingly*
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:52 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
*trump's razor quivers menacingly*
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:52 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
The Third Capitalist Party: The Libertarian Party is trying to position itself as an alternative to both Clinton and Trump. But there’s nothing progressive about it.
Mr. Maturen Goes To Washington
posted by Apocryphon at 5:53 PM on August 15, 2016
Mr. Maturen Goes To Washington
posted by Apocryphon at 5:53 PM on August 15, 2016
And finally from the Public Policy Trolls: We found this week in NC that 69% of Trump voters think if Clinton wins it will just be because election was rigged
That's ... not good.
posted by Francis at 5:55 PM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
That's ... not good.
posted by Francis at 5:55 PM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
Wouldn't forging a medical document be some sort of crime?
He hasn't released a medical document; he's released a supposed letter signed by a (presumed) doctor. There's some vague possibility of "fraud," if someone were persuaded to give him money or maybe support him based on the letter; there's the non-vague possibility of some kind of malfeasance if the doctor signed it while knowing it contained lies, but I suspect the statements are vague enough to not hold up to serious legal scrutiny.
It'd be hard for anyone to have a claim for damages, and it's a stretch to call it a crime; there's just too much waffling. "Excellent physical health" is hard to disprove, and the specific claims are very minor.
The thing that struck me as most odd was the mention of aspirin, even though it's very common among older patients because it helps prevent heart attacks. It seems shocking that a doctor would make a public declaration of any patient's prescription regimen, no matter how common or minor.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:59 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
He hasn't released a medical document; he's released a supposed letter signed by a (presumed) doctor. There's some vague possibility of "fraud," if someone were persuaded to give him money or maybe support him based on the letter; there's the non-vague possibility of some kind of malfeasance if the doctor signed it while knowing it contained lies, but I suspect the statements are vague enough to not hold up to serious legal scrutiny.
It'd be hard for anyone to have a claim for damages, and it's a stretch to call it a crime; there's just too much waffling. "Excellent physical health" is hard to disprove, and the specific claims are very minor.
The thing that struck me as most odd was the mention of aspirin, even though it's very common among older patients because it helps prevent heart attacks. It seems shocking that a doctor would make a public declaration of any patient's prescription regimen, no matter how common or minor.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:59 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Finally Maddow is back. I hope she links the GOP platform Russia stuff that she was reporting on.
posted by cashman at 6:00 PM on August 15, 2016
posted by cashman at 6:00 PM on August 15, 2016
And while I'm at looking through PPP: Trump's in the mid-60s of the GOP vote in a lot of suburban legislative districts we've polled across the country in the last month
That's ... dire.
I don't understand what the tweet means or why it is dire. Please help walk a poll-impaired person out and explain this tweet.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:01 PM on August 15, 2016
That's ... dire.
I don't understand what the tweet means or why it is dire. Please help walk a poll-impaired person out and explain this tweet.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:01 PM on August 15, 2016
This headline is not about Trump or his campaign: Out-Of-Control Garbage Fire Reportedly Sets Olympic Mountain Bike Course Ablaze
posted by palindromic at 6:03 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by palindromic at 6:03 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
I don't understand what the tweet means or why it is dire. Please help walk a poll-impaired person out and explain this tweet.
I think it means that the GOP presidential candidate is only polling in the mid-60% range among registered R voters in legislative districts where you would expect close to 100% support from that demographic.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:04 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
I think it means that the GOP presidential candidate is only polling in the mid-60% range among registered R voters in legislative districts where you would expect close to 100% support from that demographic.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:04 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
So how did crazy ex-general Michael Flynn end up at the same Putin dinner as Jill Stein? Same table, even.
And neither of them stabbed the other with a salad fork? They disappoint me.
posted by jackbishop at 6:12 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
And neither of them stabbed the other with a salad fork? They disappoint me.
posted by jackbishop at 6:12 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Trump's in the mid-60s of the GOP vote in a lot of suburban legislative districts we've polled across the country in the last monthI don't understand what the tweet means or why it is dire. Please help walk a poll-impaired person out and explain this tweet.
Quick translation is that only about 60% of suburban Republicans support Trump. 80% would be considered bad and 90% about average.
posted by Francis at 6:12 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
OK, that does seem dire. Thank you!
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:13 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:13 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Paraphrasing myself from the thread about the recent civil unrest in Milwaukee, which includes numerous links about racial issues throughout Wisconsin...
I am very concerned about what Trump will say or incite at his appearances tomorrow in Milwaukee and West Bend, especially if they attract a lot of protesters. I hope this isn't the eruption into violence we've been anticipating, but there's a potentially volatile confluence of circumstances right now. After another flat TelePrompTer delivery, Trump will probably return to his Improv ways. Worse, Trump will need to grab headlines again to take attention off his poorly received foreign policy speech today, which includes tests to ensure that prospective immigrants "hold American values," and the NYT articles about his incompetent campaign and the secret ledger revealing Paul Manafort's $12.7 million dollar fees from his Ukraine work. It could be very bad.
posted by carmicha at 6:14 PM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
I am very concerned about what Trump will say or incite at his appearances tomorrow in Milwaukee and West Bend, especially if they attract a lot of protesters. I hope this isn't the eruption into violence we've been anticipating, but there's a potentially volatile confluence of circumstances right now. After another flat TelePrompTer delivery, Trump will probably return to his Improv ways. Worse, Trump will need to grab headlines again to take attention off his poorly received foreign policy speech today, which includes tests to ensure that prospective immigrants "hold American values," and the NYT articles about his incompetent campaign and the secret ledger revealing Paul Manafort's $12.7 million dollar fees from his Ukraine work. It could be very bad.
posted by carmicha at 6:14 PM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
Those are the sort of middle-class, college degree-holding Republicans who mostly went for Kasich and Rubio in the primaries. Trump tended to do poorly in those kinds of districts, even with only Republicans voting.
posted by EarBucket at 6:15 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by EarBucket at 6:15 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
He said he used the visit to press for collaboration on Syria, Iran and the Middle East, and dismissed the ensuing controversy as “boring.” Asked why he would want to be so closely associated with a Kremlin propaganda platform, Flynn said he sees no distinction between RT and other news outlets.
“What’s CNN? What’s MSNBC? Come on!” said Flynn, who also has appeared occasionally as an unpaid on-air analyst for RT and other foreign broadcasters.
Holy fucking shit.
posted by Artw at 6:16 PM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
“What’s CNN? What’s MSNBC? Come on!” said Flynn, who also has appeared occasionally as an unpaid on-air analyst for RT and other foreign broadcasters.
Holy fucking shit.
posted by Artw at 6:16 PM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
The Onion: “Melania Trump Stumbles Upon Dozens Of Husband’s Haunting, Macabre Self-Portraits”
posted by Going To Maine at 6:20 PM on August 15, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 6:20 PM on August 15, 2016 [22 favorites]
I would like those portraits
posted by Going To Maine at 6:21 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 6:21 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Those are the sort of middle-class, college degree-holding Republicans who mostly went for Kasich and Rubio in the primaries. Trump tended to do poorly in those kinds of districts, even with only Republicans voting.
Philly burbs. Charlotte burbs. NC Triangle burbs. DC Burbs in Virginia. Atlanta burbs. Tract housing and McMansions; jobs in finance and healthcare and tech.
I am very concerned about what Trump will say or incite at his appearances tomorrow in Milwaukee and West Bend, especially if they attract a lot of protesters.
The Milwaukee event previously listed is no longer on the schedule. It's just West Bend tomorrow. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad one given the current situation in the city.
posted by holgate at 6:29 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Philly burbs. Charlotte burbs. NC Triangle burbs. DC Burbs in Virginia. Atlanta burbs. Tract housing and McMansions; jobs in finance and healthcare and tech.
I am very concerned about what Trump will say or incite at his appearances tomorrow in Milwaukee and West Bend, especially if they attract a lot of protesters.
The Milwaukee event previously listed is no longer on the schedule. It's just West Bend tomorrow. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad one given the current situation in the city.
posted by holgate at 6:29 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm concerned his long standing ties to the Hamburgler are going to tank his chances though.
Still not going to vote for Egg, but I thought the Hamburgler's impression of Nixon was totally on point: "I'm not a crook!" Classic!
posted by a lungful of dragon at 6:31 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Still not going to vote for Egg, but I thought the Hamburgler's impression of Nixon was totally on point: "I'm not a crook!" Classic!
posted by a lungful of dragon at 6:31 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
That simulation histogram at PEC is really stratifying into discrete spikes lately. It used to be a big fuzzy hump like 538's. I know that's for today, not a November projection, but it sure is fun to look at anyway.
posted by ctmf at 6:33 PM on August 15, 2016
posted by ctmf at 6:33 PM on August 15, 2016
I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad one given the current situation in the city.
good probably. When has Donald Trump's presence ever made something better?
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:34 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
good probably. When has Donald Trump's presence ever made something better?
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:34 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
This . . . thread?
posted by petebest at 6:37 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by petebest at 6:37 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
From the sketchy details it sounds like they paid a hefty fee to join plus they paid dues but then wanted to cancel. I guess they wanted the initial fee back but continued to pay the monthly dues while awaiting the return of their money.
Joe Nocera covered this back in February. The deal was that if you resigned your membership, you went on a list and only got your refund when you reached the top of the list and a new member signed up.
Joe Nocera covered this back in February. The deal was that if you resigned your membership, you went on a list and only got your refund when you reached the top of the list and a new member signed up.
During the time the Ritz ran the resort, people who put themselves on the resignation list still had access to the resort and the golf course, and they still paid dues. And why wouldn’t they? Until new members joined, allowing them to recoup their deposit, they were still members of the resort. They hadn’t resigned, but simply announced their desire to resign.posted by holgate at 6:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Trump, however, wanted nothing to do with them. He immediately barred them from the club, and said he would no longer accept their dues. (According to a brief filed by the plaintiffs in the class-action suit, Trump later complained that the people on the resignation list were in arrears on their dues.) As he bluntly put it in his Dec. 17 letter, “If you choose to remain on the resignation list — you’re out.”
Katrina Pierson has already run for office and lost. She ran in the 2013 Republican primary against Texas Representative Pete Sessions, who reps TX-32, a northeastern suburb of Dallas....
Oh man, now I realize why I knew her name. She's bugfuck insane y'all, even by teahadist standards. Even by Texas teahadist standards, which, I'm just saying, is pretty goddamn insane.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:42 PM on August 15, 2016 [18 favorites]
Oh man, now I realize why I knew her name. She's bugfuck insane y'all, even by teahadist standards. Even by Texas teahadist standards, which, I'm just saying, is pretty goddamn insane.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:42 PM on August 15, 2016 [18 favorites]
That cameo in Little Rascals where he praises the villainous kid was oddly self-aware and genuinely funny.
posted by Apocryphon at 6:42 PM on August 15, 2016
posted by Apocryphon at 6:42 PM on August 15, 2016
And why wouldn’t they?
But why would they? They stop going to a place they said they wanted to resign from, and stop paying dues. Trump still owes them the deposit back when someone new signs up, yes? So... I guess it's a change in policy, but I'm not sure how it hurts them.
posted by ctmf at 6:45 PM on August 15, 2016
But why would they? They stop going to a place they said they wanted to resign from, and stop paying dues. Trump still owes them the deposit back when someone new signs up, yes? So... I guess it's a change in policy, but I'm not sure how it hurts them.
posted by ctmf at 6:45 PM on August 15, 2016
And why wouldn't they?
Umm... The sentence before the one you quoted says that they continued paying dues.
posted by rdr at 6:50 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Umm... The sentence before the one you quoted says that they continued paying dues.
posted by rdr at 6:50 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
it’s pretty clearly a propaganda move that sounds a lot like journalism but is on the whole an advertisement
So what? It's on her web site and clearly associated with her on iTunes not presented as journalism. Max Linsky even says, "Full disclosure, I'm not a journalist, and I'm not impartial."
and is also (as far as I know) a first for a major campaign
And, so what?
posted by kirkaracha at 6:55 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
And, so what?
So it’s news! Which, honestly, was about as seriously as the NPR politics podcast treated it: a novelty, and another example of how the campaigns can go outside of traditional media channels to talk to supporters and ignore hard ball questions. I’m really surprised that people were het up about the mention of it. They certainly didn’t make it sound like a nefarious plot. They do note that Clinton hasn’t had a full-on press-conference in a dog’s age, which is true and is a fine thing to complain about.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:00 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
So it’s news! Which, honestly, was about as seriously as the NPR politics podcast treated it: a novelty, and another example of how the campaigns can go outside of traditional media channels to talk to supporters and ignore hard ball questions. I’m really surprised that people were het up about the mention of it. They certainly didn’t make it sound like a nefarious plot. They do note that Clinton hasn’t had a full-on press-conference in a dog’s age, which is true and is a fine thing to complain about.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:00 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
The Milwaukee event previously listed is no longer on the schedule. It's just West Bend tomorrow
Perhaps its character has changed, but just an hour ago Fox News touted the Milwaukee event as a private one-hour session at the Pabst Theater hosted by Sean Hannity. It's still shown on the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel's web site too. Although it starts at 6:00 pm, doors open at 3:00 and it's first come, first seated. The West Bend event is a rally. Anyway, Rudy Giuliani is fanning flames by saying the Milwaukee situation is evidence that Trump's law and order approach is needed.
posted by carmicha at 7:01 PM on August 15, 2016
Perhaps its character has changed, but just an hour ago Fox News touted the Milwaukee event as a private one-hour session at the Pabst Theater hosted by Sean Hannity. It's still shown on the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel's web site too. Although it starts at 6:00 pm, doors open at 3:00 and it's first come, first seated. The West Bend event is a rally. Anyway, Rudy Giuliani is fanning flames by saying the Milwaukee situation is evidence that Trump's law and order approach is needed.
posted by carmicha at 7:01 PM on August 15, 2016
I got the impression they were choosing to continue paying dues so that they could continue to have access. When Trump made the deal "in or out", it's not clear that "Ok, out then" was not an option. Of course, knowing that Trump often does not pay his obligations without a lawsuit might influence that choice.
posted by ctmf at 7:04 PM on August 15, 2016
posted by ctmf at 7:04 PM on August 15, 2016
The Pabst theater is a beautiful building that doesn't deserve to be spoiled by the likes of Hannity, Trump and Walker.
I haven't heard a single thing about planned protests and I doubt much will materialize
posted by AFABulous at 7:04 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I haven't heard a single thing about planned protests and I doubt much will materialize
posted by AFABulous at 7:04 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Every Donald Trump Cameo Ever
This is not every Donald Trump cameo ever. It misses his appearance in Ghosts Can’t Do It where Bo Derek channels her dead millionaire husband in a hardball negotiation against the Donald.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:06 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
This is not every Donald Trump cameo ever. It misses his appearance in Ghosts Can’t Do It where Bo Derek channels her dead millionaire husband in a hardball negotiation against the Donald.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:06 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Damning if true
posted by Apocryphon at 7:12 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Apocryphon at 7:12 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Every Donald Trump Cameo Ever
They missed his cameo in Bobby Brown's "On Our Own".
posted by Talez at 7:13 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
They missed his cameo in Bobby Brown's "On Our Own".
posted by Talez at 7:13 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
They do note that Clinton hasn’t had a full-on press-conference in a dog’s age, which is true and is a fine thing to complain about.
Well, honestly it's not surprising. When she does do press conferences, she gets hit with things like this where the journalist first states that she never gives press conferences and commends her for doing one now, and then in his very next breath segues into, "How will you lead this nation when you have such low favorability?" Go ahead, watch it, and imagine what it must be like to be Hillary Clinton and face this kind of questioning everywhere you go, and for decades (someone linked a Youtube video of her being asked basically that same questions for years). Even Trump, of the historically low favorability ratings, doesn't get asked this kind of question.
posted by peacheater at 7:15 PM on August 15, 2016 [28 favorites]
Well, honestly it's not surprising. When she does do press conferences, she gets hit with things like this where the journalist first states that she never gives press conferences and commends her for doing one now, and then in his very next breath segues into, "How will you lead this nation when you have such low favorability?" Go ahead, watch it, and imagine what it must be like to be Hillary Clinton and face this kind of questioning everywhere you go, and for decades (someone linked a Youtube video of her being asked basically that same questions for years). Even Trump, of the historically low favorability ratings, doesn't get asked this kind of question.
posted by peacheater at 7:15 PM on August 15, 2016 [28 favorites]
"Hillary, when did you stop being likable?"
posted by defenestration at 7:18 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by defenestration at 7:18 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Jesus, I never remember. Don't read the comments, don't read the comments, don't read the comments....
posted by yhbc at 7:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by yhbc at 7:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Trump Spokeswoman Admits Obama Did Not Invade Afghanistan and she crushes Obama with a sick burn:
The article also mentions her Tweet from 2012 that says, "9/11 ... An inside job?" "Pierson told the Tribune she was referring to the Benghazi attacks, which took place two days before the tweet, on Sept. 11, 2012."
posted by kirkaracha at 7:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
The world nearly came to an end when I said Afghanistan & meant to say Syria. It's not like I said 57 statesShe linked her Tweet to an article where she blames "...the error on a technical glitch — she could hear her voice echoing in her earpiece throughout the segment — and said it was so distracting that she jumbled her thoughts." Hmm, almost sounds like she short-circuited.
The article also mentions her Tweet from 2012 that says, "9/11 ... An inside job?" "Pierson told the Tribune she was referring to the Benghazi attacks, which took place two days before the tweet, on Sept. 11, 2012."
posted by kirkaracha at 7:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
A few hours ago Rudy Giuliani claimed there were no successful "radical Islamic terror attacks" in the eight years before Obama took office.
Astute observers might note that 9/11 happened during that time period, and Giuliani was actually mayor of NYC during it. So. Um. Yeah.
posted by Anonymous at 7:23 PM on August 15, 2016
Astute observers might note that 9/11 happened during that time period, and Giuliani was actually mayor of NYC during it. So. Um. Yeah.
posted by Anonymous at 7:23 PM on August 15, 2016
Reporting from Montgomery County/northern Prince George's County suburbs of DC: Haven't seen any yard signs for anyone yet, nor billboards, not even for downticket candidates (and those will be out in force in PG County at least, as the season progresses).
Have, however, seen many bumper stickers.
For a while in the primary season it was 70℅ Sanders to 30℅ Clinton. I got the sense that this was more about Sanders supporters being more likely to use bumper stickers than Clinton supporters in the primaries. I might have been correct, since the number of Sanders stickers haven't diminished much, but the ratio is closer to even now as the number of Clinton stickers have been rising.
I saw one (1) Cruz sticker in... May? April?
I haven't seen a single Trump sticker. I'm not sure that they exist.
posted by seyirci at 7:24 PM on August 15, 2016
Have, however, seen many bumper stickers.
For a while in the primary season it was 70℅ Sanders to 30℅ Clinton. I got the sense that this was more about Sanders supporters being more likely to use bumper stickers than Clinton supporters in the primaries. I might have been correct, since the number of Sanders stickers haven't diminished much, but the ratio is closer to even now as the number of Clinton stickers have been rising.
I saw one (1) Cruz sticker in... May? April?
I haven't seen a single Trump sticker. I'm not sure that they exist.
posted by seyirci at 7:24 PM on August 15, 2016
It's 2016. Your sign should be oriented whatever way it wants to be.
posted by srboisvert at 7:25 PM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 7:25 PM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
someone linked a Youtube video of her being asked basically that same questions for years
Watch Hillary Clinton Answer Nearly 40 Years of Sexism
posted by kirkaracha at 7:25 PM on August 15, 2016 [18 favorites]
They do note that Clinton hasn’t had a full-on press-conference in a dog’s age, which is true and is a fine thing to complain about.
Well, honestly it's not surprising. When she does do press conferences, she gets hit with things like this where the journalist first states that she never gives press conferences and commends her for doing one now, and then in his very next breath segues into, "How will you lead this nation when you have such low favorability?" Go ahead, watch it, and imagine what it must be like to be Hillary Clinton and face this kind of questioning everywhere you go, and for decades (someone linked a Youtube video of her being asked basically that same questions for years). Even Trump, of the historically low favorability ratings, doesn't get asked this kind of question.
I imagine it sucks, and I imagine that’s why she hunts out alternative media sources. But I don’t really care that it sucks, you know? I care that the most powerful politician in the land should talk to the media. I also care that the media coverage of her sucks, and I think that we should demand that it be better. I demand all of the things.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:32 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
Well, honestly it's not surprising. When she does do press conferences, she gets hit with things like this where the journalist first states that she never gives press conferences and commends her for doing one now, and then in his very next breath segues into, "How will you lead this nation when you have such low favorability?" Go ahead, watch it, and imagine what it must be like to be Hillary Clinton and face this kind of questioning everywhere you go, and for decades (someone linked a Youtube video of her being asked basically that same questions for years). Even Trump, of the historically low favorability ratings, doesn't get asked this kind of question.
I imagine it sucks, and I imagine that’s why she hunts out alternative media sources. But I don’t really care that it sucks, you know? I care that the most powerful politician in the land should talk to the media. I also care that the media coverage of her sucks, and I think that we should demand that it be better. I demand all of the things.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:32 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
dis_integration: "(it wasn't like they were going to elect *two* Clintons Senator from NY, and the former president doesn't slum it in the House. "
Pedantry: John Quincy Adams served 17 years in the House after his Presidency.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:32 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Pedantry: John Quincy Adams served 17 years in the House after his Presidency.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:32 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Another lesson in projection from the Trump campaign.
posted by sallybrown at 7:36 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 7:36 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
> John Quincy Adams served 17 years in the House after his Presidency.
The Adams: The original Political Family.
posted by mrzarquon at 7:38 PM on August 15, 2016
The Adams: The original Political Family.
posted by mrzarquon at 7:38 PM on August 15, 2016
Meanwhile Dad is jamming with some buddies in Asheville.
posted by sallybrown at 7:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 7:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
Yard signs and bumper stickers and Twitter followers and rally attendance have never been accurate measures of actual voter support. When you see campaigns appealing to such measures it's because they don't have the polling numbers they believe they should have.
I don't have any bumper stickers and I would never in a million years want to go to a Hillary rally. Those people look miserable to me, all that waiting for a canned speech. But I donate regularly and never miss voting in any election.
Enthusiasm need not be performed.
posted by spitbull at 7:42 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
I don't have any bumper stickers and I would never in a million years want to go to a Hillary rally. Those people look miserable to me, all that waiting for a canned speech. But I donate regularly and never miss voting in any election.
Enthusiasm need not be performed.
posted by spitbull at 7:42 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Dad is going to win North Carolina one harmonica solo at a time!
posted by Talez at 7:44 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Talez at 7:44 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
So why do press conferences, out of all the venues for communication she is actively and frequently using, matter?
It matters to me personally because I think people are most likely to give honest and candid answers when answering questions live. Same reason why depositions are an effective tool in a lawsuit. The tradition of giving press conferences, if performed consistently, means a regular face-to-face accounting of choices made by the politician.
I think both Obama and Clinton view control as really important (for legitimate reasons, not in a nefarious sense) and really truly dislike press conferences, plus they must have found it doesn't strongly negatively affect them not to give them. And I will take a candidate who doesn't give press conferences but doesn't lie through her teeth any day over a candidate who bullshits his way through press conferences and just spouts nonsense.
posted by sallybrown at 7:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
It matters to me personally because I think people are most likely to give honest and candid answers when answering questions live. Same reason why depositions are an effective tool in a lawsuit. The tradition of giving press conferences, if performed consistently, means a regular face-to-face accounting of choices made by the politician.
I think both Obama and Clinton view control as really important (for legitimate reasons, not in a nefarious sense) and really truly dislike press conferences, plus they must have found it doesn't strongly negatively affect them not to give them. And I will take a candidate who doesn't give press conferences but doesn't lie through her teeth any day over a candidate who bullshits his way through press conferences and just spouts nonsense.
posted by sallybrown at 7:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
But I don’t really care that it sucks, you know? I care that the most powerful politician in the land should talk to the media
I don't know. I care.
She's speaking publicly plenty, across many diverse mediums (i.e. media). Journalists are freely reporting and analyzing what she's saying. If there are things journalists want to hear her speak about that she isn't covering, I'm confident they have plenty of public and private ways to communicate those questions. I can decide for myself as a voter what I think about what she has to say, based on her saying it and journalists' coverage and analysis of it.
It's really not obvious to me why on earth she would be obliged to engage in the particular spectacle of a press conference or one on one interview in some kind of symbolic obeissance to "the media."
posted by Salamandrous at 7:46 PM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
I don't know. I care.
She's speaking publicly plenty, across many diverse mediums (i.e. media). Journalists are freely reporting and analyzing what she's saying. If there are things journalists want to hear her speak about that she isn't covering, I'm confident they have plenty of public and private ways to communicate those questions. I can decide for myself as a voter what I think about what she has to say, based on her saying it and journalists' coverage and analysis of it.
It's really not obvious to me why on earth she would be obliged to engage in the particular spectacle of a press conference or one on one interview in some kind of symbolic obeissance to "the media."
posted by Salamandrous at 7:46 PM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
It matters to me personally because I think people are most likely to give honest and candid answers when answering questions live.
I would be interested to read evidence for this position. It seems to me that live answers may be more candid without being more honest, in the sense that, depending on a person's improvisational speaking skills, they may more genuinely reflect a person's feelings in the moment. But still, less accurately reflect a person's thoughts and considered positions.
Depositions are one tool in legal proceedings but so are all kinds of sworn written statements.
posted by Salamandrous at 7:52 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I would be interested to read evidence for this position. It seems to me that live answers may be more candid without being more honest, in the sense that, depending on a person's improvisational speaking skills, they may more genuinely reflect a person's feelings in the moment. But still, less accurately reflect a person's thoughts and considered positions.
Depositions are one tool in legal proceedings but so are all kinds of sworn written statements.
posted by Salamandrous at 7:52 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Is telling Clinton to have a press conference just another way of telling a woman to "smile" ?
posted by mrzarquon at 7:53 PM on August 15, 2016 [51 favorites]
posted by mrzarquon at 7:53 PM on August 15, 2016 [51 favorites]
(And I'm serious, since it is venturing into the realm of "this is what I think you need to do to be more appealing to others" type behavior)
posted by mrzarquon at 7:54 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by mrzarquon at 7:54 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Tomorrow's New York Daily News Cover responds to Giuliani.
posted by zarq at 7:56 PM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by zarq at 7:56 PM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
Slate: No, Rudy Giuliani Did Not “Forget 9/11”...Again, this was a poorly worded, misleading statement, but Giuliani clearly did not literally mean that 9/11 didn’t happen.
Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?
[edit]well shit four hours later...
posted by notsnot at 7:58 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?
[edit]well shit four hours later...
posted by notsnot at 7:58 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
It follows years of a number of people on both sides of the aisle being irked at how few Obama does.
posted by phearlez at 7:59 PM on August 15, 2016
posted by phearlez at 7:59 PM on August 15, 2016
Um...that cover is...yikes. Maybe I'm still too touchy but it's tough to see that image in any context still, let alone something that feels so partisan. I want fewer people using 9/11 as a political weapon, not more of them...
posted by sallybrown at 8:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by sallybrown at 8:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
So, uh, hey, there's this:
CLINTON’S CLOSE TIES TO PUTIN DESERVE SCRUTINY
thank dog for @darth's ongoing tweetthread
posted by Existential Dread at 8:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
CLINTON’S CLOSE TIES TO PUTIN DESERVE SCRUTINY
thank dog for @darth's ongoing tweetthread
posted by Existential Dread at 8:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
and now I see sallybrown beat me to it but still what the everloving hell
posted by Existential Dread at 8:02 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 8:02 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
I looked at that Trump survey and was surprised to see we have a concern in common: fair trade! I love chocolate, and always try to buy the certified stuff. That is what he means, right? Look at Trump, building bridges.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:03 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:03 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
I think if anyone should have 9/11 used as a political tool against him, it should be Giuliani, given his own craven use of it for his own purposes.
posted by carrienation at 8:04 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by carrienation at 8:04 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Trump Spokeswoman Admits Obama Did Not Invade Afghanistan and she crushes Obama with a sick burn: "The world nearly came to an end when I said Afghanistan & meant to say Syria. It's not like I said 57 states"
So she meant to say that Obama invaded Syria? Uh....
posted by msalt at 8:06 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
So she meant to say that Obama invaded Syria? Uh....
posted by msalt at 8:06 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Slate: No, Rudy Giuliani Did Not “Forget 9/11”...Again, this was a poorly worded, misleading statement, but Giuliani clearly did not literally mean that 9/11 didn’t happen.
More accurately: In his incessant effort to once again inaccurately attack Democrats using the same fucking tragedy he's shamelessly, cravenly politicized for over a decade and a half, Rudolph "The Fascist Asshole" Giuliani misspoke.
posted by zarq at 8:08 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
More accurately: In his incessant effort to once again inaccurately attack Democrats using the same fucking tragedy he's shamelessly, cravenly politicized for over a decade and a half, Rudolph "The Fascist Asshole" Giuliani misspoke.
posted by zarq at 8:08 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Meanwhile Dad is jamming with some buddies in Asheville.
Dad was also next door beforehand for BBQ dinner and yes the travelling press pack noticed the bourbon Cheerwine slushie on the menu, but you know he wasn't going to indulge in that with everyone looking on.
posted by holgate at 8:14 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Dad was also next door beforehand for BBQ dinner and yes the travelling press pack noticed the bourbon Cheerwine slushie on the menu, but you know he wasn't going to indulge in that with everyone looking on.
posted by holgate at 8:14 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
“Priebus is Latin for d*****bag”: RNC’s mutual disdain for Trump camp plays out on Roger Stone’s Twitter account
Contains the phrase "RNC Chairman and hopeless midget @Reince Penis."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:15 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Contains the phrase "RNC Chairman and hopeless midget @Reince Penis."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:15 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Right, he's not a dumbass for forgetting 9/11, he's a dumbass for thinking that specious bullshit would go over with nobody noticing.
posted by ctmf at 8:16 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 8:16 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Is telling Clinton to have a press conference just another way of telling a woman to "smile" ?
Well, I think it plays into the idea among the press brigade that they -- they! -- might have the question and precise phrasing that somehow unlocks a secret door into the soul of the person behind the podium. And yet, past experience suggests that they'll go with "hey, why does nobody like you?"
posted by holgate at 8:16 PM on August 15, 2016 [23 favorites]
Well, I think it plays into the idea among the press brigade that they -- they! -- might have the question and precise phrasing that somehow unlocks a secret door into the soul of the person behind the podium. And yet, past experience suggests that they'll go with "hey, why does nobody like you?"
posted by holgate at 8:16 PM on August 15, 2016 [23 favorites]
Was it an intentional error, though? I feel like there is a sizable chunk of the population that could be convinced to believe that Obama was president during 9/11 if they heard people say it enough times. For that matter, there are voters this year who were three when the September 11th attacks happened, and who likely have no clear first-person memories of the event. Much of this election, and the Republican party's recent (as in last 10-15 years) strategy for that matter, has been about repeating lies so often that they become common knowledge.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:20 PM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:20 PM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
I don't think that believing Clinton should have a press conference now and then is really the same as telling her to "smile." Presidential candidates, and Presidents, typically hold press conferences where a broad spectrum of media are invited to ask questions live that have not been pre-screened. Even Trump, an enormous threat to press freedom, holds press conferences. I very much understand why Clinton doesn't, and I'm with her whether she has a damn press conference or not, but I think she should have a press conference for the same reason candidates release their tax returns and kiss babies: it's an expected part of the process.
That said, she and the press have played a stupid game of chicken whereby if she does have a press conference now, the questions would likely be even more intolerable.
posted by zachlipton at 8:21 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
That said, she and the press have played a stupid game of chicken whereby if she does have a press conference now, the questions would likely be even more intolerable.
posted by zachlipton at 8:21 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yard signs and bumper stickers and Twitter followers and rally attendance have never been accurate measures of actual voter support.
I just feel it's telling when I'm used to seeing a lot of very visible support for the Republican candidate in my area, and I'm NOT seeing any for Trump. It's obviously not PROOF of anything, and doesn't predict election outcomes, since people who aren't outwardly enthusiastic about a candidate may still vote for them, but I still find it of note.
posted by threeturtles at 8:21 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
I just feel it's telling when I'm used to seeing a lot of very visible support for the Republican candidate in my area, and I'm NOT seeing any for Trump. It's obviously not PROOF of anything, and doesn't predict election outcomes, since people who aren't outwardly enthusiastic about a candidate may still vote for them, but I still find it of note.
posted by threeturtles at 8:21 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Giuliani is literally - in the classic sense of the word - engaging in Big Lie tactics. He didn't misspeak, and he doesn't particularly care that we noticed. We're not the audience.
(It's worth noting that when we throw around 'fascist' when we talk about these guys, it's not actually hyperbole.)
Upon preview:
Much of this election, and the Republican party's recent (as in last 10-15 years) strategy for that matter, has been about repeating lies so often that they become common knowledge.
Yep.
posted by mordax at 8:22 PM on August 15, 2016 [29 favorites]
(It's worth noting that when we throw around 'fascist' when we talk about these guys, it's not actually hyperbole.)
Upon preview:
Much of this election, and the Republican party's recent (as in last 10-15 years) strategy for that matter, has been about repeating lies so often that they become common knowledge.
Yep.
posted by mordax at 8:22 PM on August 15, 2016 [29 favorites]
"I mean, I'm not NOT saying that a Hamilton-style musical about Wendi Deng is the only thing I truly want from the world"
posted by lunasol at 8:22 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by lunasol at 8:22 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
"The press is mean" isn't a good reason not to have press conferences, even if it's true.
I think Obama should have had more press conferences, even though "the press is stupid" is also true.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
I think Obama should have had more press conferences, even though "the press is stupid" is also true.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
And yet, past experience suggests that they'll go with "hey, why does nobody like you?"
"But what if this time we phrase it juuuuust right and she tells us!"
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 8:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
"But what if this time we phrase it juuuuust right and she tells us!"
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 8:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
I think like Jalliah upthread, I've reached a point where for some reason I've come full circle and am finding the idea of Trump just so ridiculous all over again. Watch this (short) John Oliver video about Trump and a chart. This guy wants to be President!
posted by peacheater at 8:27 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 8:27 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Hillary needs to find some polls that give her an approval rating of 80%, no matter how limited in scope they are, so she can throw them at the "why don't people like you?" journalists. Yes, they'll post the next day that the poll she mentioned was made from feminist students at private colleges, but they'll have an answer they can't contradict during the press conference, and she can get on with answering real questions.
Probably. Unless they start asking if her hairstyle is too feminine for a commander-in-chief.
... I kinda want her to hold a press conference with a rule of "I'm here for NEW questions only. Here's a list of questions I have been asked over 20 times during my career; if you ask one of these, you'll lose your press pass and be politely escorted out of the building."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:29 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
Probably. Unless they start asking if her hairstyle is too feminine for a commander-in-chief.
... I kinda want her to hold a press conference with a rule of "I'm here for NEW questions only. Here's a list of questions I have been asked over 20 times during my career; if you ask one of these, you'll lose your press pass and be politely escorted out of the building."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:29 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
There is a difference between saying "the press is mean" and saying "the press is sexist and features of this become more prominent in open press conference kind of situations, which is unhealthy both for American politics and for the self-image of roughly 50% of the American population".
The public deserves information. There is more than one way to distribute that information. If people can point to specific questions that aren't being answered, that's a point worth making, but press conferences as a format should not be considered sacred if they're encouraging bad behavior in a way that actively discourages women and POC from participating in public leadership.
posted by Sequence at 8:29 PM on August 15, 2016 [54 favorites]
The public deserves information. There is more than one way to distribute that information. If people can point to specific questions that aren't being answered, that's a point worth making, but press conferences as a format should not be considered sacred if they're encouraging bad behavior in a way that actively discourages women and POC from participating in public leadership.
posted by Sequence at 8:29 PM on August 15, 2016 [54 favorites]
"I mean, I'm not NOT saying that a Hamilton-style musical about Wendi Deng is the only thing I truly want from the world"
Wouldn't the whole thing just be versions of "Helpless" in which she falls for a rich powerful man several decades her senior, rewind rewind rewind, fall for an even richer more powerful man several decades her senior, rewind rewind rewind, do it again?
posted by zachlipton at 8:31 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Wouldn't the whole thing just be versions of "Helpless" in which she falls for a rich powerful man several decades her senior, rewind rewind rewind, fall for an even richer more powerful man several decades her senior, rewind rewind rewind, do it again?
posted by zachlipton at 8:31 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
That said, she and the press have played a stupid game of chicken whereby if she does have a press conference now, the questions would likely be even more intolerable.
The thing about American press conferences is that they're not asking questions for an answer, they're asking for the sake of looking clever by asking. It's like talks where the first "question" is inevitably a self-aggrandising statement that has only the faintest desire of an actual engaged response.
I'd love if Clinton did a Richard Sherman-style presser where it was just "too dumb, next question" or "I'm here because you wanted a press conference: I'm only going to answer good questions, and there'll be a test at the end on my answers." But she's not really allowed to do that.
posted by holgate at 8:32 PM on August 15, 2016 [41 favorites]
The thing about American press conferences is that they're not asking questions for an answer, they're asking for the sake of looking clever by asking. It's like talks where the first "question" is inevitably a self-aggrandising statement that has only the faintest desire of an actual engaged response.
I'd love if Clinton did a Richard Sherman-style presser where it was just "too dumb, next question" or "I'm here because you wanted a press conference: I'm only going to answer good questions, and there'll be a test at the end on my answers." But she's not really allowed to do that.
posted by holgate at 8:32 PM on August 15, 2016 [41 favorites]
"That's a clown question, Bro."
posted by dirigibleman at 8:34 PM on August 15, 2016 [38 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 8:34 PM on August 15, 2016 [38 favorites]
How often do presidential nominees hold press conferences (as opposed to sit-down interviews, or answering a couple softball-type questions yelled at them as they head into a venue from the bus or vice-versa)? It doesn't seem all that unusual that Clinton hasn't had one lately. How common is it?
posted by rtha at 8:36 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by rtha at 8:36 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
This is apparently from back in February, but nobody noticed then because he was saying even stupider stuff at the time, but HuffPo is rolling it out now: Trump: Obama Bribed New York’s Attorney General To Sue Trump University:
Trump repeated his charge against Obama just moments later. “All of a sudden the attorney general ― his name is Eric Schneiderman, not respected in New York, doing a terrible job, probably is not electable in New York, but who knows ― and he meets with Obama, gets a campaign contribution, I think, I think it’s fifteen thousand dollars, and all of a sudden, he meets with Obama in, I believe, Syracuse, and the following day or two he brings a lawsuit against me.”This story is nonsense (there was a campaign contribution, from people who are not President Obama, three years before the AG filed its suit). However, and this is pure Trump Projection in action once again, this also happened:
In 2013, Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi was deciding whether to bring a case against Trump University. Bondi asked for a contribution: Trump’s charitable arm gave Bondi $25,000, and Bondi dropped the case. She now faces calls for a federal investigation into whether she took an illegal bribe.posted by zachlipton at 8:43 PM on August 15, 2016 [45 favorites]
"I mean, I'm not NOT saying that a Hamilton-style musical about Wendi Deng is the only thing I truly want from the world"
Wouldn't the whole thing just be versions of "Helpless" in which she falls for a rich powerful man several decades her senior, rewind rewind rewind, fall for an even richer more powerful man several decades her senior, rewind rewind rewind, do it again?
The New Yorker article on Ivanka & Jared (linked waaaay up thread) notes that it was Wendi Deng who was responsible for their marriage (they had broken up over religious issues and Deng secretly arranged for them to end up on the same swanky yacht for a weekend without each other knowing the other was coming), and it was Jared Kushner who is likely responsible for building the relationship between Murdoch and the Donald, as well as lots of the strategy behind Trump's campaign. The question is, did Trump introduce her to Putin, or is Deng behind the Putin/Trump alliance, or some other thing?
I loved these two posts by celebrity gossip blogger Elaine Lui (who is Chinese-Canadian) about seeing Wendi Deng through the lens of Chinese folklore. I've been watching to see if she updates her conclusion based on more recent information to confirm that Wendi Deng is in fact coming close to bringing about the end of the Earth (joking but like...).
posted by sallybrown at 8:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
Wouldn't the whole thing just be versions of "Helpless" in which she falls for a rich powerful man several decades her senior, rewind rewind rewind, fall for an even richer more powerful man several decades her senior, rewind rewind rewind, do it again?
The New Yorker article on Ivanka & Jared (linked waaaay up thread) notes that it was Wendi Deng who was responsible for their marriage (they had broken up over religious issues and Deng secretly arranged for them to end up on the same swanky yacht for a weekend without each other knowing the other was coming), and it was Jared Kushner who is likely responsible for building the relationship between Murdoch and the Donald, as well as lots of the strategy behind Trump's campaign. The question is, did Trump introduce her to Putin, or is Deng behind the Putin/Trump alliance, or some other thing?
I loved these two posts by celebrity gossip blogger Elaine Lui (who is Chinese-Canadian) about seeing Wendi Deng through the lens of Chinese folklore. I've been watching to see if she updates her conclusion based on more recent information to confirm that Wendi Deng is in fact coming close to bringing about the end of the Earth (joking but like...).
posted by sallybrown at 8:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
However, and this is pure Trump Projection in action once again, this also happened:
It's only August fuckin 15th, and literally (like, literally literally) all they have is "I know you are but what am I"? How long before the Trump campaign is calling for a measurement of Hilary's hands?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:49 PM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
It's only August fuckin 15th, and literally (like, literally literally) all they have is "I know you are but what am I"? How long before the Trump campaign is calling for a measurement of Hilary's hands?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:49 PM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
"The press is mean" isn't a good reason not to have press conferences, even if it's true.
"They are an empty ratings exercise that sheds no light on issues or the state of the campaign and serve only to generate fodder for cable networks," though, is a good reason.
Insight tends to come through profiles, analysis pieces, and embedded journalism these days. It's really hard to imagine anything interesting or useful coming out of a press conference with either candidate. It's an empty exercise. I agree with others that there's no special magic to the format "press conference," especially because it's a relic of a former time when that was the only availability for members of the press and the only way to glean information directly from a candidate or officeholder. Today they are not much more than dog and pony shows.
posted by Miko at 8:56 PM on August 15, 2016 [24 favorites]
"They are an empty ratings exercise that sheds no light on issues or the state of the campaign and serve only to generate fodder for cable networks," though, is a good reason.
Insight tends to come through profiles, analysis pieces, and embedded journalism these days. It's really hard to imagine anything interesting or useful coming out of a press conference with either candidate. It's an empty exercise. I agree with others that there's no special magic to the format "press conference," especially because it's a relic of a former time when that was the only availability for members of the press and the only way to glean information directly from a candidate or officeholder. Today they are not much more than dog and pony shows.
posted by Miko at 8:56 PM on August 15, 2016 [24 favorites]
Somebody in one of these threads said that Trump is a used car salesman, and I silently agreed and didn't think too much about it. But on reflection, I realize that is ALL he is. He's not a real estate developer (I've worked with a bunch over the years, none of them act like Trump), he's a salesman. All he cares about is getting you to say yes, to sign on the line that is dotted. And he'll say anything to get you to do it. Everything else, all the details, the warranty claims, the lemon laws, those are all somebody else's problem. He's treating the whole campaign like he's trying to reach the end of the month sales goal.
He clearly doesn't want the job, but he doesn't see it as running for president, it's just getting people to say yes to him.
posted by gofargogo at 9:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
He clearly doesn't want the job, but he doesn't see it as running for president, it's just getting people to say yes to him.
posted by gofargogo at 9:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
I'd love if Clinton did a Richard Sherman-style presser where it was just "too dumb, next question" or "I'm here because you wanted a press conference: I'm only going to answer good questions, and there'll be a test at the end on my answers." But she's not really allowed to do that.
You mean Marshawn Lynch, right?
posted by dw at 9:02 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
You mean Marshawn Lynch, right?
posted by dw at 9:02 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
I played football and baseball, sorry, but said to be the best bball player in N.Y. State-ask coach Ted Dobias-said best he ever coached.
[Real]
posted by Sophie1 at 9:11 PM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
I played football and baseball, sorry, but said to be the best bball player in N.Y. State-ask coach Ted Dobias-said best he ever coached.
[Real]
posted by Sophie1 at 9:11 PM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
How long before the Trump campaign is calling for a measurement of Hilary's hands?
But slightly more seriously, how long before we make a list of every accusation Trump has ever made against his opponents, and start investigating him to find out where the idea is coming from?
posted by ctmf at 9:12 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
But slightly more seriously, how long before we make a list of every accusation Trump has ever made against his opponents, and start investigating him to find out where the idea is coming from?
posted by ctmf at 9:12 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Quick update on the Council of Steves (now containing women!). The only member of Trump's council of economic advisors who is actually an economist, Professor Peter Navarro of UC Irvine, has never met Trump nor talked to him on the phone (h/t: HuffPo).
posted by zachlipton at 9:18 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:18 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
In my lesser moments I like to imagine poking Donald Trump to make him do something, like a science experiment. For example, if enough people tweeted that "Donald trump does not know what it's like to kill a man." I bet he'd start talking about it. And either admit to murder, or kill two birds with one stone (as it were) by going out to fifth avenue and gunning someone down while yelling about ratings.
Other things in this category include: a declaration that "2nd amendment citizens" are the only legitimate citizens; the designation of Iraq as what would have been a "protectorate" had not Hillary screwed it up (and cost us all that oil); that "illegals" should first spend six months hard labor building the wall on their way out of the country; a "right to work" program aimed at reinstating debt slavery; the packaging up of slave debts into financial instruments proffered by a Trump-branded, government-backed "labor service provider"; a promise to make America a real empire; that everyone should get a "trump stamp" on their body so we can keep track of the bad guys.
As I said, lesser moments.
posted by bigbigdog at 9:32 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
Other things in this category include: a declaration that "2nd amendment citizens" are the only legitimate citizens; the designation of Iraq as what would have been a "protectorate" had not Hillary screwed it up (and cost us all that oil); that "illegals" should first spend six months hard labor building the wall on their way out of the country; a "right to work" program aimed at reinstating debt slavery; the packaging up of slave debts into financial instruments proffered by a Trump-branded, government-backed "labor service provider"; a promise to make America a real empire; that everyone should get a "trump stamp" on their body so we can keep track of the bad guys.
As I said, lesser moments.
posted by bigbigdog at 9:32 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
Ted Dobias is apparently a real person.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:37 PM on August 15, 2016
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:37 PM on August 15, 2016
Wouldn't the whole thing just be versions of "Helpless" in which she falls for a rich powerful man several decades her senior, rewind rewind rewind, fall for an even richer more powerful man several decades her senior, rewind rewind rewind, do it again?
The musical should be about Putin, and the song Helpless should be sung three times in the show by, in reverse order, Wendi Deng, the Russian people, and George W. Bush.
The musical should be about Putin, and the song Helpless should be sung three times in the show by, in reverse order, Wendi Deng, the Russian people, and George W. Bush.
"I look into your eyes, and the, sky's the limitposted by msalt at 9:38 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah I'm helpless,
Down for count and I'm, drowning in 'em.
Trump: “If you choose to remain on the resignation list — you’re out.”
This is just a trivial customer agreement for a freaking golf course membership but Trump has to take it as a personal affront and retaliate. The guy is plainly a psychopath. He just goes nuclear at the merest perceived slight. This is not normal. This is not healthy.
posted by JackFlash at 9:39 PM on August 15, 2016 [26 favorites]
This is just a trivial customer agreement for a freaking golf course membership but Trump has to take it as a personal affront and retaliate. The guy is plainly a psychopath. He just goes nuclear at the merest perceived slight. This is not normal. This is not healthy.
posted by JackFlash at 9:39 PM on August 15, 2016 [26 favorites]
I like to imagine that Professor Peter "Steve" Navarro ends up as one of the workers that has to sue Trump for unpaid wages.
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
You mean Marshawn Lynch, right?
Yes, you're right, though Sherman also has form here.
posted by holgate at 9:44 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yes, you're right, though Sherman also has form here.
posted by holgate at 9:44 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump made $39 million running his "successful" casino company into the ground.
"In 1995, Donald Trump's first and only initial public offering raised $140 million from public investors under the ticker symbol DJT. A decade later, Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts, filed for bankruptcy. The casino company posted losses every year it was public -- more than $600 million in total between 1995 and 2004 -- a CNNMoney analysis of 10 years of corporate filings shows.
DJT paid Trump handsomely each year. His salary, bonus and options totaled about $20 million. An additional $18.5 million came from what the filings called "other" compensation. That includes a web of inventive deals:
-- complex consulting contracts that paid Trump for consulting with his own company;
-- licensing deals under which DJT paid Trump to use the Trump name;
-- reimbursement for the times the company used his personal jet or golf courses for VIPs."
posted by storybored at 9:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
"In 1995, Donald Trump's first and only initial public offering raised $140 million from public investors under the ticker symbol DJT. A decade later, Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts, filed for bankruptcy. The casino company posted losses every year it was public -- more than $600 million in total between 1995 and 2004 -- a CNNMoney analysis of 10 years of corporate filings shows.
DJT paid Trump handsomely each year. His salary, bonus and options totaled about $20 million. An additional $18.5 million came from what the filings called "other" compensation. That includes a web of inventive deals:
-- complex consulting contracts that paid Trump for consulting with his own company;
-- licensing deals under which DJT paid Trump to use the Trump name;
-- reimbursement for the times the company used his personal jet or golf courses for VIPs."
posted by storybored at 9:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
The musical should be about Putin, and the song Helpless should be sung three times in the show by, in reverse order, Wendi Deng, the Russian people, and George W. Bush.
Followed, of course, by Donald Trump singing "may you always be satisfied" to Putin.
Unfortunately, the musical takes a dark turn a short time later, with "Yorktown" consisting of the actors miming mushroom clouds bursting in air, followed by the surviving cockroaches who inherit the planet performing a rousing rendition of "What Comes Next."
posted by zachlipton at 9:46 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Followed, of course, by Donald Trump singing "may you always be satisfied" to Putin.
Unfortunately, the musical takes a dark turn a short time later, with "Yorktown" consisting of the actors miming mushroom clouds bursting in air, followed by the surviving cockroaches who inherit the planet performing a rousing rendition of "What Comes Next."
posted by zachlipton at 9:46 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
In the old days the winner would enslave the loser. Should we bring that back?
This galley ain't gonna row itself seriously, i'm going in circles here
posted by um at 9:53 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
This galley ain't gonna row itself seriously, i'm going in circles here
posted by um at 9:53 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Remember, Republican Voters Agree with Giuliani About George W. Bush
posted by tonycpsu at 10:17 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by tonycpsu at 10:17 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump made $39 million running his "successful" casino company into the ground.
The indictment of Trump's career in business writes itself - the most conservative estimate puts Trump at getting 40mil$ from his father in 1974, with which he launched his business empire. All he had to do was literally nothing and that amount would have become actually 10 billion dollars by 2016. So Trump's wildest over estimates, which are demonstrably wild overestimates of his wealth, is just breaking even.
Anyone starting with 40mil in 1974, literally, literally anyone, not even "literally anyone", could have done better than Trump's entire career by doing nothing. Everything he's done in his entire life has underperformed the market and lost him money. Just by talking he loses money.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:31 PM on August 15, 2016 [66 favorites]
The indictment of Trump's career in business writes itself - the most conservative estimate puts Trump at getting 40mil$ from his father in 1974, with which he launched his business empire. All he had to do was literally nothing and that amount would have become actually 10 billion dollars by 2016. So Trump's wildest over estimates, which are demonstrably wild overestimates of his wealth, is just breaking even.
Anyone starting with 40mil in 1974, literally, literally anyone, not even "literally anyone", could have done better than Trump's entire career by doing nothing. Everything he's done in his entire life has underperformed the market and lost him money. Just by talking he loses money.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:31 PM on August 15, 2016 [66 favorites]
And don't forget: a substantial chunk of his 'fortune' came out of cheating partners, contractors and employees out of money he legitimately owed them.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:41 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:41 PM on August 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
The indictment of Trump's career in business writes itself - the most conservative estimate puts Trump at getting 40mil$ from his father in 1974, with which he launched his business empire. All he had to do was literally nothing and that amount would have become actually 10 billion dollars by 2016.
The first link doesn’t seem to quite say that:
The first link doesn’t seem to quite say that:
We used $40 million as the starting point for 1974. Honghui Chen, associate professor of finance at the University of Central Florida, told us the account would have grown to $3.94 billion by November 2015 if the money had followed the S&P 500 index and all dividends had been reinvested.posted by Going To Maine at 10:42 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
This is a rough calculation that ignores taxes owed on dividends, but it’s on the same scale as what the National Journal reported.
Chen said it’s trickier to calculate the value of $200 million invested in 1982.
“Because the stock market in 1982 was quite volatile, the current value of $200 million investment in 1982 would depend on the time at which it was initially invested," Chen said.
If it went in right at the end of 1981, it would be worth $6.7 billion. Invested in June 1982, the value today would be $8.3 billion. Invested at the end of 1982, it would be worth $9 billion. Again, in the neighborhood of what the Journal said.
…
The only way to hit the $8 billion mark [in 2016] is to start with $200 million in 1982, and it's wrong to say that was Trump’s father’s money. While the father's business put Trump on the path to have $200 million in 1982, Trump himself had been running the company for eight years.
Donald Trump has siblings? I never knew that.
Have any of them talked to the press?
posted by yesster at 10:50 PM on August 15, 2016
Have any of them talked to the press?
posted by yesster at 10:50 PM on August 15, 2016
An interesting perspective on the Breitbart poll:
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:15 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Anyway, the folks at Breitbart decided that the mainstream polls showing Hillary ahead were all bogus so they commissioned their own…and it showed Hillary running five points ahead of Donald Trump, which is the low end of what the mainstream polls say. Most of them have her at around eight. So Breitbart more or less validated the pollsters that show her beating Trump.Of course, Breitbart is dishonest enough to do that, but are they smart enough? Doubtful.
But wait. Given the rep of Breitbart, you have to wonder. Might this not be a trick to establish some credibility for their poll? If they came out showing Trump clobbering her, everyone would dismiss it as another Breitbart phony deal like all those claims of evidence that Obama is a gay Muslim or that Planned Parenthood broasts or deep-fries unborn children.
By saying she's five up, they look kinda reasonable. Then next week, they can announce she's three points ahead. Then by the second week in September, they can have them neck-and-neck…and in October, Trump supporters will have a poll they can point to and say, "Those are the real numbers! Trump is twelve points ahead!"
I wouldn't put it past them.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:15 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
They love tricks, but mostly their tricks are super fucking dumb. Mostly id say delayed gratification just doesn't seem like their style.
posted by Artw at 11:21 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:21 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Donald Trump has siblings? I never knew that.
Regarding Trump and his siblings: Donald Trump Once Revoked Medical Care for a Sick Baby To Get Back at His Family
posted by homunculus at 11:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
Regarding Trump and his siblings: Donald Trump Once Revoked Medical Care for a Sick Baby To Get Back at His Family
posted by homunculus at 11:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
So how did crazy ex-general Michael Flynn end up at the same Putin dinner as Jill Stein? Same table, even.
And neither of them stabbed the other with a salad fork? They disappoint me.
and Jill would stick a fork right into Mike Flynn's shoulder
and Mike would throw the garbage all across the floor
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 12:21 AM on August 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
And neither of them stabbed the other with a salad fork? They disappoint me.
and Jill would stick a fork right into Mike Flynn's shoulder
and Mike would throw the garbage all across the floor
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 12:21 AM on August 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
and Jill would stick a fork right into Mike Flynn's shoulder
and Mike would throw the garbage all across the floor
Original lyrics, "Heroes" by David Bowie
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:43 AM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
and Mike would throw the garbage all across the floor
Original lyrics, "Heroes" by David Bowie
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:43 AM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
I really don't want to complete the next line of that song; the mental image is uncomfortable.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 12:45 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 12:45 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
'You can't do that!' hissed Moist. 'Oh? Why not?'
'You're using the wrong knife! That's for the fish! You'll get into trouble!' She glared at him, but her hand relaxed and something like a smile appeared.
'They don't have a knife for stabbing rich murdering bastards?' she said. 'They bring it to the table when you order one,' said Moist urgently.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:23 AM on August 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
'You're using the wrong knife! That's for the fish! You'll get into trouble!' She glared at him, but her hand relaxed and something like a smile appeared.
'They don't have a knife for stabbing rich murdering bastards?' she said. 'They bring it to the table when you order one,' said Moist urgently.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:23 AM on August 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
I'd vote for compartment. An America where everything the candidates said was an elaborate play on the lyrics of a famous pop song? I'm in.
posted by maxwelton at 2:17 AM on August 16, 2016
posted by maxwelton at 2:17 AM on August 16, 2016
So is the Manafort thing played out already?
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:36 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:36 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
In local news: GOP Senate candidate Wendy Long links rising crime with Syracuse mosque. The good news is that she will not win.
posted by maurice at 3:35 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by maurice at 3:35 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
So is the Manafort thing played out already?
My Trump supporting friend responded to the Manafort thing with some of the links compiled on that Trump page about Clinton's ties with Russia Existential Dread linked above, and in particular this New York Times story about a uranium deal which was approved by the State Dept around the time the Clinton Foundation got a large donation from an interested party.
I told him the story was indeed concerning, for this reason: "The foundation will continue to accept contributions from foreign sources whose interests, like Uranium One’s, may overlap with those of foreign governments, some of which may be at odds with the United States." That's not a good thing. Hillary and Bill Clinton need to step away from any day to day management of the foundation while either is in office, to avoid potential conflicts of interest like that. But to me this is the takeaway message of that article: "A person with knowledge of the Clinton Foundation’s fund-raising operation [...] said that for many people, the hope is that money will in fact buy influence: “Why do you think they are doing it — because they love them?” But whether it actually DOES is another question. And in this case, there were broader geopolitical pressures that likely came into play as the United States considered whether to approve the Rosatom-Uranium One deal." [emphasis mine]
I told him I am not seeing a lot of evidence that Hillary Clinton has been especially soft on Putin in other ways, or even that this particular deal wouldn't have been approved without that donation. Whereas Trump and his people KEEP repeating Russian talking points. They negotiated in committees before the conventions to remove anti-Putin platform positions from the Republican platform. And the Russians DID hack Trump's opponents, which helped him in the polls. Those are facts, not just innuendos.
Trump is getting his pro-Putin talking points from somewhere. "NATO is obsolete" [It's not!] "Other countries don't pay their fair shares" [this isn't a protection racket!] "NATO base in Turkey attacked by terrorists" [it wasn't!]. "The invasion of the Ukraine was justified because the peope of Crimea voted to be part of Russia [after gunmen took over government buildings and held a referrendum! Not how democracy works!]
I am less concerned about whether Manafort actually got those payments than about the act that he was a part of this inner circle. One way or another, Putin's people are able to feed Trump talking points and he repeats them, and for one reason or another, Russian hackers are working to help Trump get elected.
The Manafort stuff is just an explanation of the route by which people in the Russian government may be communicating with Trump's team. One of several possible routes, though, because again Ivanka is apparently buddies with Putin's girlfriend, and Carter Page also has links, and Trump also has a history of doing real estate deals with Russian investors, and Michael Flynn appears on Russia Today... Basically the Trump family and the Trump campaign are very friendly with Russian oligarchs, and that makes Trump himself an easy patsy for Putin.
I'd be more concerned about Clinton's (much less direct and numerous) ties to Russia if she started praising Putin and repeating his propaganda as Trump has, and if he praised her in return, and if Russian hackers tried to sabotage her opponent... But right now it appears to be Trump they want in office, because he's not even smart enough to realize he's being used.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:49 AM on August 16, 2016 [30 favorites]
My Trump supporting friend responded to the Manafort thing with some of the links compiled on that Trump page about Clinton's ties with Russia Existential Dread linked above, and in particular this New York Times story about a uranium deal which was approved by the State Dept around the time the Clinton Foundation got a large donation from an interested party.
I told him the story was indeed concerning, for this reason: "The foundation will continue to accept contributions from foreign sources whose interests, like Uranium One’s, may overlap with those of foreign governments, some of which may be at odds with the United States." That's not a good thing. Hillary and Bill Clinton need to step away from any day to day management of the foundation while either is in office, to avoid potential conflicts of interest like that. But to me this is the takeaway message of that article: "A person with knowledge of the Clinton Foundation’s fund-raising operation [...] said that for many people, the hope is that money will in fact buy influence: “Why do you think they are doing it — because they love them?” But whether it actually DOES is another question. And in this case, there were broader geopolitical pressures that likely came into play as the United States considered whether to approve the Rosatom-Uranium One deal." [emphasis mine]
I told him I am not seeing a lot of evidence that Hillary Clinton has been especially soft on Putin in other ways, or even that this particular deal wouldn't have been approved without that donation. Whereas Trump and his people KEEP repeating Russian talking points. They negotiated in committees before the conventions to remove anti-Putin platform positions from the Republican platform. And the Russians DID hack Trump's opponents, which helped him in the polls. Those are facts, not just innuendos.
Trump is getting his pro-Putin talking points from somewhere. "NATO is obsolete" [It's not!] "Other countries don't pay their fair shares" [this isn't a protection racket!] "NATO base in Turkey attacked by terrorists" [it wasn't!]. "The invasion of the Ukraine was justified because the peope of Crimea voted to be part of Russia [after gunmen took over government buildings and held a referrendum! Not how democracy works!]
I am less concerned about whether Manafort actually got those payments than about the act that he was a part of this inner circle. One way or another, Putin's people are able to feed Trump talking points and he repeats them, and for one reason or another, Russian hackers are working to help Trump get elected.
The Manafort stuff is just an explanation of the route by which people in the Russian government may be communicating with Trump's team. One of several possible routes, though, because again Ivanka is apparently buddies with Putin's girlfriend, and Carter Page also has links, and Trump also has a history of doing real estate deals with Russian investors, and Michael Flynn appears on Russia Today... Basically the Trump family and the Trump campaign are very friendly with Russian oligarchs, and that makes Trump himself an easy patsy for Putin.
I'd be more concerned about Clinton's (much less direct and numerous) ties to Russia if she started praising Putin and repeating his propaganda as Trump has, and if he praised her in return, and if Russian hackers tried to sabotage her opponent... But right now it appears to be Trump they want in office, because he's not even smart enough to realize he's being used.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:49 AM on August 16, 2016 [30 favorites]
You know that Josh Whedon speech snippet that ends with
“ "Why do you write strong women characters?" Because you're still asking that question.”Well, about press conferences and Hillary Clinton...
"Why does no one like you?"posted by seyirci at 4:03 AM on August 16, 2016 [36 favorites]
"Because 20 years on, you're still asking that question."
The thing about donations to charity (at the level of very wealthy individuals or corporations) is that they're pretty much never altruistic. The intent behind them is usually good PR or "notice me, senpai!" or an unspoken hope that some other person or organization will cast a favorable glance, or it will get the right person into the same room with another person for a half an hour and thus connections are made. Whether these gambits actually work and/or outweigh the good that is done with the money in the end is another question that has to be taken on an individual basis. But yeah, hoping to get influence with a powerful person by giving to their foundation? Let me retrieve my monocle, for it has popped off.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:39 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:39 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
Trump unpopularity fuels wide lead for Clinton in new Virginia poll
New poll by Washington Post has Clinton up 14 points in Virginia among registered voters,
Clinton 52
Trump 38
posted by airish at 4:42 AM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
New poll by Washington Post has Clinton up 14 points in Virginia among registered voters,
Clinton 52
Trump 38
posted by airish at 4:42 AM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
Clinton and Trump are technically tied in Indiana in a new poll, but 538 adjusts that to +1 for Clinton (I guess because of pollster bias).
posted by peacheater at 4:53 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 4:53 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Well, to avoid complacency, it's worth pointing out that the Virginia poll cuts that top line lead in half when screens for Likely Voters and all four candidates are applied.
I'll take up by 7 in Virginia. But 14 is pie in the sky.
posted by spitbull at 4:57 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'll take up by 7 in Virginia. But 14 is pie in the sky.
posted by spitbull at 4:57 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Although this quote from a retired republican businessman in VA is choice:
“I think he’s a failure, I think he’s a fraud, I think he’s a con artist, I think he’s insane,” Purnell said.
posted by spitbull at 5:02 AM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
“I think he’s a failure, I think he’s a fraud, I think he’s a con artist, I think he’s insane,” Purnell said.
posted by spitbull at 5:02 AM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
Good Politico article on Clinton's debate prep:
posted by sallybrown at 5:11 AM on August 16, 2016 [20 favorites]
“It needs to be someone who is naturally smart, glib and utterly irreverent,” said Democratic strategist Bob Shrum, who oversaw debate prep for Al Gore. “You can’t learn to be utterly irreverent.”I like the James Carville suggestion. He has the swagger, Clinton must feel safe in his hands after all this time, and he'll want only the best for her.
Even so, out-Trumping Trump to prepare Clinton is an inherently awkward enterprise, one which is expected to unfold only in front of a small group of trusted aides. Clinton allies are comparing the confidentiality surrounding the tricky upcoming prep sessions to that of a closed film set when actors are shooting a nude scene. . . .
This year in particular, it's a job that nobody close to Clinton is particularly eager to take on.“You have to start off by saying, ‘I want to thank the American people, especially Monica and Gennifer Flowers,” anticipated a top Clinton ally with close ties to the campaign. “Nobody who is a friend of hers is going to want to say that in debate prep.”
But challenging Clinton to prepare her for Trump is also one of the most crucial roles in the general election. The first debate is widely expected to overshadow the conventions, the Olympics and the Super Bowl in terms of television ratings. “It is rare that a candidate can win the election at a debate,” said Craig, “but it's quite frequent that one can lose the election during a debate.”
For weeks, Clinton has been fielding jesting offers from donors at fundraisers: “if you need someone to play Donald Trump in debate prep,” they joke, “you know who to call.” The topic comes up so often she has remarked on it to her Brooklyn based campaign staff."
posted by sallybrown at 5:11 AM on August 16, 2016 [20 favorites]
Clinton should respond to each of Trump's statements in the debate with 'cool story, bro'.
posted by winna at 5:19 AM on August 16, 2016 [39 favorites]
posted by winna at 5:19 AM on August 16, 2016 [39 favorites]
That being said, after watching the Benghazi hearing, I am not at all worried about the debate. Clinton is whatever the opposite of a choke artist is (a closer?).
posted by sallybrown at 5:21 AM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 5:21 AM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
I really would like to be a fly on the wall during the Rosin-Plotz family gatherings this holiday.
posted by angrycat at 5:26 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 5:26 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
The debate prep convo is an interesting one. I do think Carville is a decent suggestion, but I don't know if he's terrible enough. I didn't watch the Benghazi hearing in its entirety but I watched good chunks of it and while there were ridiculous and hostile inquiries, there wasn't a debate-like audience that would applaud, laugh or otherwise react. That's a big difference.
In addition to the debate prep, you know who she needs to talk to? Pro athletes. I know KD is sort of busy at the moment, but folks like Lebron and Kobe, Taurasi & Griner. You scoff, but some of these folks get the most terrible things yelled at them while they're trying to perform.
Additionally, get comedians instead of Carville. That might be too much, but if you can survive a roasting by a bunch of (Chris Rock, Kevin Hart, Martin Lawrence) comedians, you can learn to react to anything. When I was growing up people would talk about you on occasion and it didn't matter what you did or looked like, you could get roasted. And you have to be ready for that.
But the bar for Trimp is so low that he can't help but pull her down, and do well. People are suckers.
posted by cashman at 6:13 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
In addition to the debate prep, you know who she needs to talk to? Pro athletes. I know KD is sort of busy at the moment, but folks like Lebron and Kobe, Taurasi & Griner. You scoff, but some of these folks get the most terrible things yelled at them while they're trying to perform.
Additionally, get comedians instead of Carville. That might be too much, but if you can survive a roasting by a bunch of (Chris Rock, Kevin Hart, Martin Lawrence) comedians, you can learn to react to anything. When I was growing up people would talk about you on occasion and it didn't matter what you did or looked like, you could get roasted. And you have to be ready for that.
But the bar for Trimp is so low that he can't help but pull her down, and do well. People are suckers.
posted by cashman at 6:13 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
I shouldn't have said winning by 14 in VA was "pie in the sky." Rather, I opine that it is aspirational
posted by spitbull at 6:14 AM on August 16, 2016
posted by spitbull at 6:14 AM on August 16, 2016
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
I played football and baseball, sorry, but said to be the best bball player in N.Y. State-ask coach Ted Dobias-said best he ever coached.
Kim Jong-un, is that you?
No seriously the best basketball player in NY State with those tiny hands? A game he never played but he was the best? I looked up Ted Dobias to see if he was some great Basketball coach. No he was a retired Colonel who was an instructor at the military school where Trump was sent. Ted is still alive and was interviewed by NPR for a story they did on Trump's days at New York Military Academy.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:15 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
I played football and baseball, sorry, but said to be the best bball player in N.Y. State-ask coach Ted Dobias-said best he ever coached.
Kim Jong-un, is that you?
No seriously the best basketball player in NY State with those tiny hands? A game he never played but he was the best? I looked up Ted Dobias to see if he was some great Basketball coach. No he was a retired Colonel who was an instructor at the military school where Trump was sent. Ted is still alive and was interviewed by NPR for a story they did on Trump's days at New York Military Academy.
"He was very coachable," Dobias said. "If I told him, 'Do this,' he'll do it. If I told him to do it the other way, he'll do it that way. So that's what made him a good baseball player. He accepted criticism. He wanted to be best. Not better.""Very coachable" = "best he ever coached" Oh and baseball is not bball, Donald.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:15 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
I do think Carville is a decent suggestion, but I don't know if he's terrible enough.
James Carville is the platonic ideal of "He's a bastard, but he's our bastard."
posted by Etrigan at 6:16 AM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
James Carville is the platonic ideal of "He's a bastard, but he's our bastard."
posted by Etrigan at 6:16 AM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
Also, for debate prep, the choices are obviously (in this order) Alan Grayson, Bill Maher, Keith Olberman, and Anthony Weiner.
posted by spitbull at 6:16 AM on August 16, 2016
posted by spitbull at 6:16 AM on August 16, 2016
I can't remember if I saw it here or elsewhere, but someone suggested Bill Clinton for the debate prep, which is kind of an amazing idea.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:17 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:17 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
It makes me laugh to think of what Clinton's interior thoughts must be after hearing a bunch of big cheese donors offering to play Trump in a debate. "Gee, thanks a bunch..."
posted by sallybrown at 6:21 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 6:21 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Re: Pam Bondi
Although there were calls for an investigation over the Trump donation, as far as I can tell, nothing happened.
Welcome to Florida.
posted by wittgenstein at 6:23 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Although there were calls for an investigation over the Trump donation, as far as I can tell, nothing happened.
Welcome to Florida.
posted by wittgenstein at 6:23 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Additionally, get comedians instead of Carville.
That's why I think Franken is a good choice. He'd have no problem talking off the cuff, knowing policy, and being bombastic when it is called for.
posted by splen at 6:24 AM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
That's why I think Franken is a good choice. He'd have no problem talking off the cuff, knowing policy, and being bombastic when it is called for.
posted by splen at 6:24 AM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
If you loved Bill enough to stay with him after some of the things he's done, wouldn't it be extraordinarily painful for him to be the one to throw them in your face, even in a debate prep scenario? That would kind of kill me...
posted by sallybrown at 6:24 AM on August 16, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 6:24 AM on August 16, 2016 [19 favorites]
Anthony Atamanuik (his Twitter) would be an incredibly good choice. Experienced improviser and coach who has been doing a Trump impression on tour for months now. He's also smart and well-read and could train up on whatever policy they need really quickly.
posted by lauranesson at 6:25 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by lauranesson at 6:25 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I've received a Trump solicitation, and this weekend my wife did as well. Neither of us have been near the Republican Party in 20 years.
Their targeting is way, way off.
You know, I just want to kind of call attention to this. I know it may not be obvious, that everyone is looking at the Big Republican Politicians who aren't endorsing Trump, but I actually think it's /really fucking significant/ that the low-level competent guys - the guys who would normally be doing this targeting, the guys who are really good at targeting - are also opting out. When you see this stuff, I think it's important to remember that what you are seeing is a vacuum, of people making a conscious choice to withdraw their labor from a cause they don't believe in.
posted by corb at 6:26 AM on August 16, 2016 [69 favorites]
Their targeting is way, way off.
You know, I just want to kind of call attention to this. I know it may not be obvious, that everyone is looking at the Big Republican Politicians who aren't endorsing Trump, but I actually think it's /really fucking significant/ that the low-level competent guys - the guys who would normally be doing this targeting, the guys who are really good at targeting - are also opting out. When you see this stuff, I think it's important to remember that what you are seeing is a vacuum, of people making a conscious choice to withdraw their labor from a cause they don't believe in.
posted by corb at 6:26 AM on August 16, 2016 [69 favorites]
(That is a 100% serious recommendation, btw. I've seen him perform a zillion times and have friends who have had classes with him at UCB.)
posted by lauranesson at 6:26 AM on August 16, 2016
posted by lauranesson at 6:26 AM on August 16, 2016
That's why I think Franken is a good choice. He'd have no problem talking off the cuff, knowing policy, and being bombastic when it is called for.
I think I spotted the problem with this pick.
If you loved Bill enough to stay with him after some of the things he's done, wouldn't it be extraordinarily painful for him to be the one to throw them in your face, even in a debate prep scenario? That would kind of kill me...
That's why I think it's such a good idea! Trump is not going to pull any punches and she needs to be over-prepared for him to say the absolute most nasty, personal shit imaginable to her face on national TV. Prepping for that debate is the time to immunize yourself to the hardest hits he can throw at you.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:28 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think I spotted the problem with this pick.
If you loved Bill enough to stay with him after some of the things he's done, wouldn't it be extraordinarily painful for him to be the one to throw them in your face, even in a debate prep scenario? That would kind of kill me...
That's why I think it's such a good idea! Trump is not going to pull any punches and she needs to be over-prepared for him to say the absolute most nasty, personal shit imaginable to her face on national TV. Prepping for that debate is the time to immunize yourself to the hardest hits he can throw at you.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:28 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Fuck it. Go for Pacino.
posted by spitbull at 6:33 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 6:33 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Putin's praise for Trump may mask 'conflicted' feelings, Kremlin watchers say
(Sorry if it's already here somewhere - this thread is beginning to break my browser)
posted by mumimor at 6:37 AM on August 16, 2016
(Sorry if it's already here somewhere - this thread is beginning to break my browser)
posted by mumimor at 6:37 AM on August 16, 2016
Yeah - I think the biggest question is how she'll deal with being interrupted and talked over (assuming the debate moderators don't or can't prevent it from happening). Considering that one of her weaknesses is being seen as 'unlikeable,' she has to shut him down in a way that seems authoritative but not... well, bitchy. (Yes this is an outrageously unfair double standard but I'm talking about how it'll be perceived by the media and the average viewer.)
So far she's been going for a combination of "the only adult in the room" and "calm policy wonk" which I think is a great contrast to Trump's whole shtick, but it would be easy to slip up, because that framing depends on keeping absolutely cool in the face of, well, The Void basically.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:38 AM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
So far she's been going for a combination of "the only adult in the room" and "calm policy wonk" which I think is a great contrast to Trump's whole shtick, but it would be easy to slip up, because that framing depends on keeping absolutely cool in the face of, well, The Void basically.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:38 AM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
Just one "well, bless your heart, Donald!"
It's all I ask.
posted by spitbull at 6:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [37 favorites]
It's all I ask.
posted by spitbull at 6:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [37 favorites]
Just want to apologize for posting that link about the Clinton Foundation without vetting it better. Thanks to everyone who pointed out the flaws, like the link to the factcheck about Charity Navigator having it on its watch list. I saw a question about the Foundation criticisms and rembered criticisms from the left, so tried to quickly find something and post it, without carefully looking at it myself. That's not a helpful way to participate in these threads, which are filled with enough chatter and noise already. I apologize again, y'all, and will try to do better next time.
posted by mediareport at 6:44 AM on August 16, 2016 [56 favorites]
posted by mediareport at 6:44 AM on August 16, 2016 [56 favorites]
> "Considering that one of her weaknesses is being seen as 'unlikeable,' she has to shut him down in a way that seems authoritative but not... well, bitchy."
This is what I hate about presidential debates in the U.S.
Clinton's task: Be assertive and acerbic on the attack, but not come across as angry. Be cool and collected on the defense, but not come across as unfeeling. Defend her allotted time against constant interruption without coming across as whiny. Be a master of policy detail, but never in a boring way. Appear relatable but not overly emotional. Never say anything that could even be interpreted as a lie.
Trump's task: Manage to not devour his own shoe on live TV.
(I will note that I think Clinton still has somewhat better odds of pulling off the stated tasks than Trump does.)
posted by kyrademon at 6:47 AM on August 16, 2016 [95 favorites]
This is what I hate about presidential debates in the U.S.
Clinton's task: Be assertive and acerbic on the attack, but not come across as angry. Be cool and collected on the defense, but not come across as unfeeling. Defend her allotted time against constant interruption without coming across as whiny. Be a master of policy detail, but never in a boring way. Appear relatable but not overly emotional. Never say anything that could even be interpreted as a lie.
Trump's task: Manage to not devour his own shoe on live TV.
(I will note that I think Clinton still has somewhat better odds of pulling off the stated tasks than Trump does.)
posted by kyrademon at 6:47 AM on August 16, 2016 [95 favorites]
Fuck it. Go for Pacino.
Now I really want to see Pacino do Trump.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:48 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Now I really want to see Pacino do Trump.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:48 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
I would actually love to know about any shady shit to do with the Clinton Foundation, if only to be ~fair and balanced~ and remind myself that politicians all have their flaws even if they're 'on my team', but at this point I really don't trust any negative story about the Clintons that isn't confirmed by about a billion sources.
It's the ultimate boy-who-cried-wolf situation, I guess. Like, if one side is constantly trying to convince me that Hillary Clinton put a hit on Benjamin Ghazi after he threatened to publish emails proving her role in the founding of the Third Reich, it's hard to believe it when they say "oh and some of the people who donate to her foundation are sketchy."
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:49 AM on August 16, 2016 [23 favorites]
It's the ultimate boy-who-cried-wolf situation, I guess. Like, if one side is constantly trying to convince me that Hillary Clinton put a hit on Benjamin Ghazi after he threatened to publish emails proving her role in the founding of the Third Reich, it's hard to believe it when they say "oh and some of the people who donate to her foundation are sketchy."
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:49 AM on August 16, 2016 [23 favorites]
A lot of the things I've read that led me to believe the Clinton Foundation is sketchy did appear in mainstream papers like the NYT and WaPo, so I'll dig deeper and see if I can find useful info that might help folks calibrate their feelings about whether the whole thing is just Drudge-level rightwing crap or if there's actually something of a there there. I can't participate in these huge threads much at all but will try, when I do, to add signal over noise.
posted by mediareport at 6:49 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by mediareport at 6:49 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Assuming there is even a debate, we can be sure Trump will have all sorts of nasty personal attacks prepared, needing only the barest hint of relatedness in order to bring them up. In order for it to be good debate preparation for Clinton, whomever is standing in for Trump needs to be able to make it personal, so as to avoid a repeat of an expected question with an unexpectedly personal wording to Dukakis in '88 which cost him the election.
posted by fragmede at 6:51 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by fragmede at 6:51 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I just hope the moderator, you know, moderates. One good moment where Trump completely whiffs on some policy he should know, or says a certain leader is a he when the person is a she, and he's toast.
When I go to watch the debates, after I gnaw all my fingernails off and eat all the snacks in the house, I am just going to remember that story she told about her mom having her go back outside to confront the bully.
posted by cashman at 6:54 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
When I go to watch the debates, after I gnaw all my fingernails off and eat all the snacks in the house, I am just going to remember that story she told about her mom having her go back outside to confront the bully.
posted by cashman at 6:54 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
The first debate is widely expected to overshadow the conventions, the Olympics and the Super Bowl in terms of television ratings.
That was a joke, right? Politico doesn't actually believe that a snoozefest like a political debate is going to out-rate the Super Bowl, do they?
posted by indubitable at 6:56 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
That was a joke, right? Politico doesn't actually believe that a snoozefest like a political debate is going to out-rate the Super Bowl, do they?
posted by indubitable at 6:56 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Trump will have all sorts of nasty personal attacks prepared
I doubt Trump will be prepared, exactly, although there's no question that he will have all sorts of nasty personal attacks.
posted by maggiemaggie at 6:57 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
I doubt Trump will be prepared, exactly, although there's no question that he will have all sorts of nasty personal attacks.
posted by maggiemaggie at 6:57 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
That was a joke, right? Politico doesn't actually believe that a snoozefest like a political debate is going to out-rate the Super Bowl, do they?
Only among Politico readers.
posted by Francis at 6:58 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Only among Politico readers.
posted by Francis at 6:58 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Politico doesn't actually believe that a snoozefest like a political debate is going to out-rate the Super Bowl, do they?
Probably not, but if Obama/McCain pulled in 50-60 million viewers, I could imaging 80 million + tuning in to see WTF Trump pulls out of his ass.
Republican debate ratings were up 4x in 2016 than 2012....that Trump effect will carry over a bit but there's no way they're getting an average of 110-120 million viewers like the Super Bowl.
They'll do better than the Olympics, though.
posted by splen at 7:02 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Probably not, but if Obama/McCain pulled in 50-60 million viewers, I could imaging 80 million + tuning in to see WTF Trump pulls out of his ass.
Republican debate ratings were up 4x in 2016 than 2012....that Trump effect will carry over a bit but there's no way they're getting an average of 110-120 million viewers like the Super Bowl.
They'll do better than the Olympics, though.
posted by splen at 7:02 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Assuming there is even a debate, we can be sure Trump will have all sorts of nasty personal attacks prepared, needing only the barest hint of relatedness in order to bring them up.
If I was Trump I would gish gallop every single thing the right wing has ever thrown at her. Every appearance of impropriety. I would just flood her with so much crap she either has to dismiss most of it as bullshit ("see you don't have good answers to these very serious accusations") or spend all her time on defense (policy is Trump's weak point so keep the debate away from it). He doesn't even need to use personal attacks. Appear to take the high road.
There is so much against Clinton in these debates. Like was said earlier, all Trump has to do is not eat his own shoe.
posted by Talez at 7:04 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
If I was Trump I would gish gallop every single thing the right wing has ever thrown at her. Every appearance of impropriety. I would just flood her with so much crap she either has to dismiss most of it as bullshit ("see you don't have good answers to these very serious accusations") or spend all her time on defense (policy is Trump's weak point so keep the debate away from it). He doesn't even need to use personal attacks. Appear to take the high road.
There is so much against Clinton in these debates. Like was said earlier, all Trump has to do is not eat his own shoe.
posted by Talez at 7:04 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
My approach to assholes deep into their assholery lately has been to just keep getting more and more polite as they get more and more belligerent. They'll keep trying to dig themselves out of a hole while you're on the edge trying to give them a hand up. I'm haven't been as successful at keeping my cool as I'd like, but when I do, it's VERY effective and I'm sure HRC's ability to keep her cool is likely super-human. The asshole is still as asshole but steam starts to shoot out of their ears when you won't meet anger with more anger and to everyone around the asshole looks more and more like an asshole while you look better and better.
Mercy, kindness, civility, and compassion are not weakness just as cruelty and hate are not strength. At the debates, Hillary just needs to demonstrate that and she'll be fine.
posted by VTX at 7:05 AM on August 16, 2016 [27 favorites]
Mercy, kindness, civility, and compassion are not weakness just as cruelty and hate are not strength. At the debates, Hillary just needs to demonstrate that and she'll be fine.
posted by VTX at 7:05 AM on August 16, 2016 [27 favorites]
For those who might not be up on debate tactics, the gish gallop is throwing as many different arguments as you possibly can against your opponent. Then, if they fail to address any of them, you claim victory.
posted by Etrigan at 7:07 AM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 7:07 AM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
"We're better than that"
posted by mumimor at 7:07 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by mumimor at 7:07 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
the first woman to hold the job will be deemed to have "not really earned it" because of who she ran against, and we'll have to sit through years of the same people who enabled Trump telling us that Clinton has no mandate for any of her proposals.
I mean, yes. Yes, that's true. But you also get the resultant win in the white house, so surely that's some sort of comfort?
I'm not sure Hillary Clinton could have beaten some of the more reasonable Republicans. Nor does it matter this election cycle. We will have to wait until 2020 to potentially see, and maybe not even then. This year, for better or worse, is about Trump. And Clinton has accurately assessed that focusing on Trump is what is going to get her to the win. Which is important, for you know, the fate of the free world and us all not dying in nuclear fire.
posted by corb at 7:13 AM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
I mean, yes. Yes, that's true. But you also get the resultant win in the white house, so surely that's some sort of comfort?
I'm not sure Hillary Clinton could have beaten some of the more reasonable Republicans. Nor does it matter this election cycle. We will have to wait until 2020 to potentially see, and maybe not even then. This year, for better or worse, is about Trump. And Clinton has accurately assessed that focusing on Trump is what is going to get her to the win. Which is important, for you know, the fate of the free world and us all not dying in nuclear fire.
posted by corb at 7:13 AM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
Yes, VTX. She just needs to apply that Methodist tenet, which made me cry when she first said it and has been making me tear up again ever since, every time I see the T-shirt.
“Do all the good you can,
By all the means you can,
In all the ways you can,
In all the places you can,
At all the times you can,
To all the people you can,
As long as ever you can."
Donald Trump has no effective come back against someone who approaches him with charity and tries to help him with his various and increasingly evident deficits. He wasn't raised right.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:14 AM on August 16, 2016 [28 favorites]
“Do all the good you can,
By all the means you can,
In all the ways you can,
In all the places you can,
At all the times you can,
To all the people you can,
As long as ever you can."
Donald Trump has no effective come back against someone who approaches him with charity and tries to help him with his various and increasingly evident deficits. He wasn't raised right.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:14 AM on August 16, 2016 [28 favorites]
"I really have to hand it to Donald. It's no tiny feat to pull the rug from under me like that, right off the top of his head."
posted by defenestration at 7:15 AM on August 16, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by defenestration at 7:15 AM on August 16, 2016 [18 favorites]
Additionally, get comedians instead of Carville.
Yes. Get Larry Wilmore. He's sharp and relentless. And, yeah I know it's too soon, his schedule just opened up.
posted by puddledork at 7:15 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yes. Get Larry Wilmore. He's sharp and relentless. And, yeah I know it's too soon, his schedule just opened up.
posted by puddledork at 7:15 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
We're having a debate party. At this point, I have people driving in from Palm Springs to watch with us. It's going to be a Monday night and I will be surprised if I have any less than 25 people crowded into my living room, based on responses.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:16 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 7:16 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure Hillary Clinton could have beaten some of the more reasonable Republicans.
None of them came anywhere close to getting the nomination. I don't say this just as an aside, I say it because it's a problem for the Republicans. Cruz is certainly no where near reasonable, and Rubio isn't reasonable either. They are both far right. I think part of what you are seeing with Trump is the limits to far right voter capture.
posted by OmieWise at 7:16 AM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
None of them came anywhere close to getting the nomination. I don't say this just as an aside, I say it because it's a problem for the Republicans. Cruz is certainly no where near reasonable, and Rubio isn't reasonable either. They are both far right. I think part of what you are seeing with Trump is the limits to far right voter capture.
posted by OmieWise at 7:16 AM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
My worry in the debate is he will provoke Hillary into a response that plays into gender roles and could be viewed as "bitchy" or "nagging"- I remember that study that showed that men who were reminded their wife made more than them went for Trump overwhelmingly.
posted by corb at 7:19 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 7:19 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's no tiny feat
I see what you did there.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:21 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
I see what you did there.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:21 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
None of them came anywhere close to getting the nomination. I don't say this just as an aside, I say it because it's a problem for the Republicans. Cruz is certainly no where near reasonable, and Rubio isn't reasonable either. They are both far right. I think part of what you are seeing with Trump is the limits to far right voter capture.
Indeed. And I'd back Clinton over Sanders against one of the far right Republicans. Both are going to end the primary season looking like loons, while Clinton appears more of a centrist than she is.
posted by Francis at 7:22 AM on August 16, 2016
Indeed. And I'd back Clinton over Sanders against one of the far right Republicans. Both are going to end the primary season looking like loons, while Clinton appears more of a centrist than she is.
posted by Francis at 7:22 AM on August 16, 2016
I think part of what you are seeing with Trump is the limits to far right voter capture.
This. What's so dangerous is that he still has three months to give Republicans a license to vote for him. Right now his polling dipping in the 30s is because educated, moderate Republicans are deserting him as he says each more xenophobic and stupid thing. However, to get them back he doesn't need to rehabilitate his image. He just has to make Clinton look worse in their eyes. Instead of "Clinton is bad but Trump is way worse" he just needs to tip them to "Trump is bad but Clinton is way worse".
If he gets that in the minds of R voters still on the fence he definitely claws back Georgia, Arizona and North Carolina while making gains on Iowa and the rest of the swing states through to Virginia. Then shit starts getting really hairy.
posted by Talez at 7:26 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
This. What's so dangerous is that he still has three months to give Republicans a license to vote for him. Right now his polling dipping in the 30s is because educated, moderate Republicans are deserting him as he says each more xenophobic and stupid thing. However, to get them back he doesn't need to rehabilitate his image. He just has to make Clinton look worse in their eyes. Instead of "Clinton is bad but Trump is way worse" he just needs to tip them to "Trump is bad but Clinton is way worse".
If he gets that in the minds of R voters still on the fence he definitely claws back Georgia, Arizona and North Carolina while making gains on Iowa and the rest of the swing states through to Virginia. Then shit starts getting really hairy.
posted by Talez at 7:26 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
My worry in the debate is he will provoke Hillary into a response that plays into gender roles and could be viewed as "bitchy" or "nagging"
That is a worrying possibility, but I wonder if gender roles might potentially help as well. If Trump goes after her the way he went after his Republican rivals, he might come off more bullying/abusive and even more crass and vulgar than he did in that setting. It will be one on one, and his physical size compared to hers... and our cultural traditions about being more respectful (or as Trump would say "politically correct") around women might actually help her.
He doesn't really have a mode other than "aggressive," but a man being aggressive against a woman doesn't play very well even (or especially) with Trump's target demographic. That may be part of the reason he's held back on attacking her directly so far, preferring to go after Obama or Bill or his Republican rivals or the media... I don't know if he's consciously thinking about the appearances, or just subconsciously buying into the cultural attitude about how one treats women, or if he just doesn't take her seriously, or all of the above. But he may feel like he's debating with one hand tied behind his back, because, roughly, "you're not allowed to hit girls." He probably thinks it's very unfair to him.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:30 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
That is a worrying possibility, but I wonder if gender roles might potentially help as well. If Trump goes after her the way he went after his Republican rivals, he might come off more bullying/abusive and even more crass and vulgar than he did in that setting. It will be one on one, and his physical size compared to hers... and our cultural traditions about being more respectful (or as Trump would say "politically correct") around women might actually help her.
He doesn't really have a mode other than "aggressive," but a man being aggressive against a woman doesn't play very well even (or especially) with Trump's target demographic. That may be part of the reason he's held back on attacking her directly so far, preferring to go after Obama or Bill or his Republican rivals or the media... I don't know if he's consciously thinking about the appearances, or just subconsciously buying into the cultural attitude about how one treats women, or if he just doesn't take her seriously, or all of the above. But he may feel like he's debating with one hand tied behind his back, because, roughly, "you're not allowed to hit girls." He probably thinks it's very unfair to him.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:30 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Trump could go to pieces so fast people get hit with the shrapnel and there would still be a downside for Clinton - from the people who are looking for a downside.
The way the debate goes will depend as much on who's doing the post program spin as the debate itself.
posted by Mooski at 7:39 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
The way the debate goes will depend as much on who's doing the post program spin as the debate itself.
posted by Mooski at 7:39 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Donald Trump has siblings? I never knew that.
I was curious about that the other day so I looked it up. I was sure he'd be an only child, or maybe the baby. He's the second-youngest of four (two girls, two boys).
Hillary Clinton, no surprise, is the oldest of three. She has two younger brothers.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:40 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I remember when Biden debated Palin-- that was one of the concerns that he not come across as a bullying male and he did a great job of belittling her but not in a Silverback way, more in an avuncular way.
I actually think it's /really fucking significant/ that the low-level competent guys - the guys who would normally be doing this targeting, the guys who are really good at targeting - are also opting out. When you see this stuff, I think it's important to remember that what you are seeing is a vacuum, of people making a conscious choice to withdraw their labor from a cause they don't believe in
Two big problems that Trump has is he is known to stiff people and he is also known to meddle. So you are the best in the business, are you going to work with someone who interferes at every turn and then ultimately pays you a fraction of what you are owed because he believes in making "deals"? This is why he has Katrina as a spokesperson.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
I actually think it's /really fucking significant/ that the low-level competent guys - the guys who would normally be doing this targeting, the guys who are really good at targeting - are also opting out. When you see this stuff, I think it's important to remember that what you are seeing is a vacuum, of people making a conscious choice to withdraw their labor from a cause they don't believe in
Two big problems that Trump has is he is known to stiff people and he is also known to meddle. So you are the best in the business, are you going to work with someone who interferes at every turn and then ultimately pays you a fraction of what you are owed because he believes in making "deals"? This is why he has Katrina as a spokesperson.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
> while Clinton appears more of a centrist than she is
I think this deceives progressives as well. Her DW-Nominate score puts her voting record as a Senator slightly to the left of Obama. I hardly ever see people acknowledge this. Obama gets a lot of flak from progressives, of course, but the amount of vitriol and rejectionism directed at Clinton is much greater and totally disproportionate, in my opinion.
Both Obama and Clinton are subject to and deserve criticism, sometimes harsh criticism, from their left. But I just can't feel sympathetic to many critics of Clinton anymore because the disparity in the tone and degree of opposition seems to exceed what's justified by her actual policy record. I think it points to underlying sexist motivations, propagated by decades of bias in the media.
(This is not to say that any individual critic of Clinton is sexist, of course, and it's definitely not directed at anybody in this thread. I think everybody here is participating in good faith, as usual.)
I'm looking forward to voting for Clinton and seeing some sensible, policy-oriented dialogue once she's in office, instead of all these attacks on her "likability" and character and vague insinuations about money and corruption. She's far from a perfect candidate, but I wish people would approach her candidacy with the same kind of attitude they had in the 2008 and 2012 elections, particularly since this year it's even more important for the Democrat to win.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 7:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [26 favorites]
I think this deceives progressives as well. Her DW-Nominate score puts her voting record as a Senator slightly to the left of Obama. I hardly ever see people acknowledge this. Obama gets a lot of flak from progressives, of course, but the amount of vitriol and rejectionism directed at Clinton is much greater and totally disproportionate, in my opinion.
Both Obama and Clinton are subject to and deserve criticism, sometimes harsh criticism, from their left. But I just can't feel sympathetic to many critics of Clinton anymore because the disparity in the tone and degree of opposition seems to exceed what's justified by her actual policy record. I think it points to underlying sexist motivations, propagated by decades of bias in the media.
(This is not to say that any individual critic of Clinton is sexist, of course, and it's definitely not directed at anybody in this thread. I think everybody here is participating in good faith, as usual.)
I'm looking forward to voting for Clinton and seeing some sensible, policy-oriented dialogue once she's in office, instead of all these attacks on her "likability" and character and vague insinuations about money and corruption. She's far from a perfect candidate, but I wish people would approach her candidacy with the same kind of attitude they had in the 2008 and 2012 elections, particularly since this year it's even more important for the Democrat to win.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 7:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [26 favorites]
I'm not sure Hillary Clinton could have beaten some of the more reasonable Republicans.
As Leo Durocher once said, "Whom knows?" Any hypothetical "reasonable Republican" would be beating Clinton right now. Whether one of the candidates who actually ran would be beating her must remain speculative.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:42 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
As Leo Durocher once said, "Whom knows?" Any hypothetical "reasonable Republican" would be beating Clinton right now. Whether one of the candidates who actually ran would be beating her must remain speculative.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:42 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
At the debate, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the orange shouty man tries to make a "Citizen's Arrest" of HRC, while expecting the moderators and audience to join in a chant of "Lock her up!"
posted by thelonius at 7:43 AM on August 16, 2016
posted by thelonius at 7:43 AM on August 16, 2016
None of them came anywhere close to getting the nomination. I don't say this just as an aside, I say it because it's a problem for the Republicans. Cruz is certainly no where near reasonable, and Rubio isn't reasonable either. They are both far right. I think part of what you are seeing with Trump is the limits to far right voter capture.
Ironically this is what gives Hillary room to have a more progressive platform. It's like the inverse of the Overton Window. As Republican nomination process produces extreme candidates they end up ceding the center. Because they're so far out of step with the average American, Hillary doesn't need to tack to the right as much to capture the the middle.
It's like, you really want a ham sandwich, but your alternatives are a turkey sandwich (not your favorite, but tolerable) or the remains of a dead pig with trichinosis left to rot out in the sun. "I'll take the turkey."
So, Republican extremism produces a climate more friendly to embracing progressive policy on a national level.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:45 AM on August 16, 2016 [25 favorites]
Ironically this is what gives Hillary room to have a more progressive platform. It's like the inverse of the Overton Window. As Republican nomination process produces extreme candidates they end up ceding the center. Because they're so far out of step with the average American, Hillary doesn't need to tack to the right as much to capture the the middle.
It's like, you really want a ham sandwich, but your alternatives are a turkey sandwich (not your favorite, but tolerable) or the remains of a dead pig with trichinosis left to rot out in the sun. "I'll take the turkey."
So, Republican extremism produces a climate more friendly to embracing progressive policy on a national level.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:45 AM on August 16, 2016 [25 favorites]
Whether one of the candidates who actually ran would be beating her must remain speculative.
Pataki or Graham would be beating her solidly.
posted by Talez at 7:48 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Pataki or Graham would be beating her solidly.
posted by Talez at 7:48 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
The debates are going to be extremely dangerous for Clinton. She has everything to lose and nothing to gain. Don't assume that her competence will save her because that is not the type of debate that Trump makes. He will attempt to bury her in slurs and accusations and the audience may not be able to sort out truth from fiction. One trait Trump has demonstrated is an encyclopedia memory for accusations. He can turn any question about substantive policy into a personal attack that puts you on the defensive. His policy response can be as simple as "I'm the only one who can fix it and make America great again" repeated over and over. People respond to bravado and displays of dominance more viscerally than 15 point plans.
Mark Twain said "Never argue with a fool. The onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.
posted by JackFlash at 7:48 AM on August 16, 2016 [26 favorites]
Mark Twain said "Never argue with a fool. The onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.
posted by JackFlash at 7:48 AM on August 16, 2016 [26 favorites]
What I expect to see is a firehose of lies gushing from Trump's mouth. "When Hillary was Secretary of State we lost more Embassy Personnel then at any other time in American History."[fake] When Hillary was Secretary she got 3000 letters a week begging for her help but she never responded to any of them and the State of New York lost more jobs than at any time in history." [fake] There will be so many lies that it will be difficult for her to know which ones to respond to.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:49 AM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:49 AM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
Pataki or Graham would be beating her solidly.
I'm sure that if God took on corporeal form to run for President, God would be mopping the floor with her, too. This is an equally useful speculation.
posted by indubitable at 7:49 AM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
I'm sure that if God took on corporeal form to run for President, God would be mopping the floor with her, too. This is an equally useful speculation.
posted by indubitable at 7:49 AM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
Pataki or Graham would be beating her solidly.
Who is Graham? Name recognition problem, at least here
posted by thelonius at 7:49 AM on August 16, 2016
Who is Graham? Name recognition problem, at least here
posted by thelonius at 7:49 AM on August 16, 2016
(I just realized my comment above could be interpreted to mean that I don't think "sensible, policy-oriented discussions" are appropriate before the election. That's not what I meant, of course. It's just that I haven't seen as much policy talk as I have talk about charity work and speaking fees and email servers and so on, but I do expect that to change once she's in office.)
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 7:51 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 7:51 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm sure that if God took on corporeal form to run for President, God would be mopping the floor with her, too. This is an equally useful speculation.
They both ran. They both withdrew.
Who is Graham? Name recognition problem, at least here
Lindsey Graham, senior Senator of South Carolina.
posted by Talez at 7:54 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
They both ran. They both withdrew.
Who is Graham? Name recognition problem, at least here
Lindsey Graham, senior Senator of South Carolina.
posted by Talez at 7:54 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
The closeted gay rumors would sink Graham. (Lindsey Graham, Theodosius) Pataki is pretty much a non-entity.
posted by waitingtoderail at 7:54 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by waitingtoderail at 7:54 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
when I saw the clip of Clinton confronting various idiotic questions over the years, I swear in the later years I saw something like a gleam in her eye and a laugh held back. I am probably completely projecting here, but it's like it's one of those things that's at first irritating and then after a while it goes on long enough that it's funny.
I'm close to an adolescent who, if facing a slightly unpleasant situation, compares it to Vietnam. I've now heard this metaphor about two thousand times now. Around time maybe 389 it went from stupid and annoying to stupid and funny. I wonder if that's how she feels about some of these stupid fucking questions about likability/the sound of her voice/etc
posted by angrycat at 7:54 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm close to an adolescent who, if facing a slightly unpleasant situation, compares it to Vietnam. I've now heard this metaphor about two thousand times now. Around time maybe 389 it went from stupid and annoying to stupid and funny. I wonder if that's how she feels about some of these stupid fucking questions about likability/the sound of her voice/etc
posted by angrycat at 7:54 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
The debates are going to be extremely dangerous for Clinton.
The debates are going to be just fine for Clinton. As someone mentioned upthread, there's considerable risk that the media, which is already desperate to portray the race as neck-and-neck and which already dislikes Clinton, will fixate on something in the post-debate spin to her detriment. Remember, the so-called "liberal media" used Gore's sighing at Bush's endless mendacity, unbelievably, against Gore.
But counter to that is the fact that the narrative of Trump the Liar is by now well-established, and Trump is hardly making friends in the media, either. Trump may get a bounce out of the debates, or they may seal Clinton's lead for good, but I doubt they'll change too many minds.
posted by Gelatin at 7:58 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
The debates are going to be just fine for Clinton. As someone mentioned upthread, there's considerable risk that the media, which is already desperate to portray the race as neck-and-neck and which already dislikes Clinton, will fixate on something in the post-debate spin to her detriment. Remember, the so-called "liberal media" used Gore's sighing at Bush's endless mendacity, unbelievably, against Gore.
But counter to that is the fact that the narrative of Trump the Liar is by now well-established, and Trump is hardly making friends in the media, either. Trump may get a bounce out of the debates, or they may seal Clinton's lead for good, but I doubt they'll change too many minds.
posted by Gelatin at 7:58 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
It's impossible to know how anyone else would fare in this election because Clinton's strategy would also be different, those people would have to submit to national scrutiny and wouldn't come out of it as palatable as they currently seem, etc. It's fun to speculate but silly to assume we know for a fact who would and wouldn't be beating Clinton right now.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:58 AM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:58 AM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
Jimmy Kimmel Mansplains to Hillary Clinton:
Kimmel: "Are you familiar with 'mansplaining'? Do you know what that is?"posted by kirkaracha at 7:59 AM on August 16, 2016 [68 favorites]
Clinton: "Yeah, that's when a man explains something to a woman in a patronizing way."
Kimmel: "Actually, it's when a man explains something to a woman in a condescending way, but you were close."
I'm close to an adolescent who, if facing a slightly unpleasant situation, compares it to Vietnam.
Just point out that there are rules.
posted by indubitable at 7:59 AM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
Just point out that there are rules.
posted by indubitable at 7:59 AM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
People respond to bravado and displays of dominance more viscerally than 15 point plans.
While caution against complacency is important, it's worth noting that the election we are watching has not demonstrated this to be a rule candidates can count on. So far Donald Trump has campaigned on nothing but bravado and dominance displays and he isn't winning.
If I were extrapolating to the debates from the campaign so far, I'd guess that Trump—if he agrees to debate at all—will say something especially outrageous or ridiculous that will delight his fans and repulse everyone else. That will be the news, the debate will be obscured, and then Trump will struggle not to lose another point or two. I mean, who knows, but that isn't an implausible guess given what we've seen to now.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:01 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
While caution against complacency is important, it's worth noting that the election we are watching has not demonstrated this to be a rule candidates can count on. So far Donald Trump has campaigned on nothing but bravado and dominance displays and he isn't winning.
If I were extrapolating to the debates from the campaign so far, I'd guess that Trump—if he agrees to debate at all—will say something especially outrageous or ridiculous that will delight his fans and repulse everyone else. That will be the news, the debate will be obscured, and then Trump will struggle not to lose another point or two. I mean, who knows, but that isn't an implausible guess given what we've seen to now.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:01 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm not sure Hillary Clinton could have beaten some of the more reasonable Republicans.
The problem isn't with Trump, then. It's with conservatives and the conservative movement. Are they going to stop supporting discriminatory voter laws? Are they going to try to come up with a reasonable immigration plan? Are they going to give up on retributive anti-reproductive freedom laws, including birth control? Are they going to stop denying civil rights to anyone that isn't a straight white guy? Will they stop allowing or even endorsing harassment of those same people?
The thing is, I don't think they will. Maybe you won't get another Trump, but it will be only a difference in the presentation, not content.
Nor does it matter this election cycle. We will have to wait until 2020 to potentially see, and maybe not even then.
At which point I guarantee you that almost everybody will either go back to someone who's just another brand of evil, or will just completely ignore the various squishes and Vichy conservatives that sided with Trump.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:01 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
The problem isn't with Trump, then. It's with conservatives and the conservative movement. Are they going to stop supporting discriminatory voter laws? Are they going to try to come up with a reasonable immigration plan? Are they going to give up on retributive anti-reproductive freedom laws, including birth control? Are they going to stop denying civil rights to anyone that isn't a straight white guy? Will they stop allowing or even endorsing harassment of those same people?
The thing is, I don't think they will. Maybe you won't get another Trump, but it will be only a difference in the presentation, not content.
Nor does it matter this election cycle. We will have to wait until 2020 to potentially see, and maybe not even then.
At which point I guarantee you that almost everybody will either go back to someone who's just another brand of evil, or will just completely ignore the various squishes and Vichy conservatives that sided with Trump.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:01 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
If Trump even does debate prep his opponent will be a mirror.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:02 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 8:02 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
While caution against complacency is important, it's worth noting that the election we are watching has not demonstrated this to be a rule candidates can count on. So far Donald Trump has campaigned on nothing but bravado and dominance displays and he isn't winning.
He's pulled level on multiple occasions. He doesn't need to lead. He just needs to lead on November 8th.
posted by Talez at 8:02 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
He's pulled level on multiple occasions. He doesn't need to lead. He just needs to lead on November 8th.
posted by Talez at 8:02 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
If Trump even does debate prep his opponent will be a mirror.
I misread that as minor, but both are funny.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:02 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I misread that as minor, but both are funny.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:02 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Harry Enten at 538: The GOP’s Chances Of Holding The Senate Are Following Trump Downhill:
Democrats need to gain a net of four or five seats to win control of the Senate, depending on whether Hillary Clinton or Trump wins the presidency.1 Before the conventions, polling in the 10 states whose Senate seats were most likely to flip between parties this November showed a pretty close race. Democratic candidates led in Illinois and Wisconsin, both of which would be pickups for their party. The Republican candidate was leading in Nevada (a seat that Democrats currently control). I didn’t include Indiana in my pre-convention analysis because of Democrat Evan Bayh’s late entrance into the race — we had just one partisan poll that included Bayh — but Democratic chances seemed good there (it would be another Democratic pickup). And Republicans led in the other competitive Senate races, all seats the GOP currently holds, so Democrats looked like they could pick up a net of two seats if everything stayed as it was and the polling leader in each state went on to win.posted by palindromic at 8:05 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
Since the conventions, however, Trump’s polling has worsened — overall and in states with key Senate races. In the eight states with competitive Senate races and both pre- and post-conventions polling,2 Trump had previously been down an average of about 6 percentage points; he’s now down an average of 9 points.3 And while Republican Senate candidates had been up by an average of a little more than 1 percentage point before the conventions in these eight states, they are now down by a little more than 1 point. That is, Republican Senate candidates in key states are still running ahead of Trump, but that cushion may no longer be enough to win now that Trump’s fortunes have worsened.
I think this deceives progressives as well. Her DW-Nominate score puts her voting record as a Senator slightly to the left of Obama. I hardly ever see people acknowledge this. Obama gets a lot of flak from progressives, of course, but the amount of vitriol and rejectionism directed at Clinton is much greater and totally disproportionate, in my opinion.
Both Obama and Clinton are subject to and deserve criticism, sometimes harsh criticism, from their left. But I just can't feel sympathetic to many critics of Clinton anymore because the disparity in the tone and degree of opposition seems to exceed what's justified by her actual policy record. I think it points to underlying sexist motivations, propagated by decades of bias in the media.
It absolutely does exceed anything that's justified. A couple of weeks ago in response to a Quora question I spent some time running down some of her achievements since becoming Senator. I was impressed - and there is more than that. She's been quietly very effective, and much more progressive than her reputation based on votes alone.
posted by Francis at 8:08 AM on August 16, 2016 [39 favorites]
Both Obama and Clinton are subject to and deserve criticism, sometimes harsh criticism, from their left. But I just can't feel sympathetic to many critics of Clinton anymore because the disparity in the tone and degree of opposition seems to exceed what's justified by her actual policy record. I think it points to underlying sexist motivations, propagated by decades of bias in the media.
It absolutely does exceed anything that's justified. A couple of weeks ago in response to a Quora question I spent some time running down some of her achievements since becoming Senator. I was impressed - and there is more than that. She's been quietly very effective, and much more progressive than her reputation based on votes alone.
posted by Francis at 8:08 AM on August 16, 2016 [39 favorites]
The past two primary cycles have proven that A) reasonable Republicans are a mythical thing that does not exist in the world that we actually inhabit, much like Nessie and unicorns, and B) even assuming the Republican party captured a live unicorn and taught it trickle-down economics, it couldn't win the nomination. Speculation about reasonable Republicans running against Clinton is as pointless as organizing a unicorn hunt.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:09 AM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:09 AM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
If Trump even does debate prep his opponent will be a mirror.
There is this bird that shows up at the glass door to my porch every morning and throws itself against the window for about five minutes until it gets too dazed or whatever and flies away. I think similar rules might govern Trump.
posted by indubitable at 8:10 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
There is this bird that shows up at the glass door to my porch every morning and throws itself against the window for about five minutes until it gets too dazed or whatever and flies away. I think similar rules might govern Trump.
posted by indubitable at 8:10 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
I wonder if gender roles might potentially help as well. If Trump goes after her the way he went after his Republican rivals, he might come off more bullying/abusive and even more crass and vulgar than he did in that setting
That's what happened when Clinton debated Rick Lazio in her 2000 Senate campaign. Here's an article about the key moment in the debate and about gender in debates generally.
posted by PlusDistance at 8:11 AM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
That's what happened when Clinton debated Rick Lazio in her 2000 Senate campaign. Here's an article about the key moment in the debate and about gender in debates generally.
posted by PlusDistance at 8:11 AM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
There was a story this morning about Russia launching an attack in Syria from a base in Iran. I wonder if Trump realizes that his favorite and least-favorite countries are allies?
posted by theodolite at 8:11 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 8:11 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Reasonable Republican? They had, what, 16 chances to come up with one of those, and every single one was beaten by Trump.
Who's left? Romney? McMuffin?
posted by mmoncur at 8:13 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Who's left? Romney? McMuffin?
posted by mmoncur at 8:13 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
He's pulled level on multiple occasions. He doesn't need to lead. He just needs to lead on November 8th.
AFAIK, Trump has at best, pulled barely even in a very small number of polls in July. At Clinton's worst and Trump's best they were barely even. But you're right: two and half months to go, Trump could win. He could eke out a bare win. Or maybe some combination of getting-his-act-together and Clintonian disgrace could propel him to a bigger than marginal win. That's all possible. But it isn't an extrapolation, it's just a statement of historical unpredictability.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:13 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
AFAIK, Trump has at best, pulled barely even in a very small number of polls in July. At Clinton's worst and Trump's best they were barely even. But you're right: two and half months to go, Trump could win. He could eke out a bare win. Or maybe some combination of getting-his-act-together and Clintonian disgrace could propel him to a bigger than marginal win. That's all possible. But it isn't an extrapolation, it's just a statement of historical unpredictability.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:13 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Additionally, get comedians instead of Carville. That might be too much, but if you can survive a roasting by a bunch of (Chris Rock, Kevin Hart, Martin Lawrence) comedians, you can learn to react to anything.
You don't really need to find anyone half that clever. Trump uses a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
So try to get Gallagher, is what I'm saying.
posted by PlusDistance at 8:16 AM on August 16, 2016
You don't really need to find anyone half that clever. Trump uses a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
So try to get Gallagher, is what I'm saying.
posted by PlusDistance at 8:16 AM on August 16, 2016
I just finished reading the buzzfeed piece on Broaddrick. It's really well done and really sad. It was wild how different she seemed to act with the reporter, compared to how she tweeted/posted on /r/the_donald. The line that stuck with me the most was "It’s no longer acceptable — in progressive circles, at least — to condemn a woman for her husband’s misdeeds. Broaddrick presents a dilemma for those inclined to support survivors of sexual assault: Can you believe a woman’s story, on principle, but reject the way she decides to tell it?"
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:18 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:18 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
This adolescent who compares everything to Vietnam... Have they visited the country or is it devoid of any context in their head other than Apocalypse Now?
Or did they have heel spurs, fail to serve, and end up in a state of arrested development?
He's a sheltered American teen, so no. I'm not his mom; I change what I can with gentle mockery, but there's only so much I can do.
posted by angrycat at 8:19 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Or did they have heel spurs, fail to serve, and end up in a state of arrested development?
He's a sheltered American teen, so no. I'm not his mom; I change what I can with gentle mockery, but there's only so much I can do.
posted by angrycat at 8:19 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have never done LSD, so I have never experienced a bad trip.
I expect if I ever did, it might feel something like this election cycle.
posted by chonus at 8:19 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I expect if I ever did, it might feel something like this election cycle.
posted by chonus at 8:19 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I believe the audiences in presidential debates are less partisan, and discouraged from applauding during the debate. Trump gets a lot of energy from playing to the audience, so a more subdued audience might work against him.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:21 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 8:21 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
I wonder if Trump realizes
I'm going to stop you right there.
posted by sporkwort at 8:24 AM on August 16, 2016 [29 favorites]
I'm going to stop you right there.
posted by sporkwort at 8:24 AM on August 16, 2016 [29 favorites]
This adolescent who compares everything to Vietnam ...
"Could you be a little more specific? Is this test the Tet Offensive or the Fall of Saigon?"
posted by octobersurprise at 8:26 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
"Could you be a little more specific? Is this test the Tet Offensive or the Fall of Saigon?"
posted by octobersurprise at 8:26 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Who's left? Romney? McMuffin?
With how quickly the base turned on them, all those supposedly reasonable republican candidates could have just as easily been beaten by a literal Egg McMuffin provided it had enough racist epithets scrawled on the wrapper.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:28 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
With how quickly the base turned on them, all those supposedly reasonable republican candidates could have just as easily been beaten by a literal Egg McMuffin provided it had enough racist epithets scrawled on the wrapper.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:28 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
Pacino doing Trump
Oh man his character even has that weird incest thing going on in Scarface, it's perfect.
posted by indubitable at 8:29 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh man his character even has that weird incest thing going on in Scarface, it's perfect.
posted by indubitable at 8:29 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Early Voting Limits Donald Trump’s Time to Turn Campaign Around:
Voting actually starts in less than six weeks, on Sept. 23 in Minnesota and South Dakota, the first of some 35 states and the District of Columbia that allow people to cast ballots at polling sites or by email before Nov. 8. Iowa is expected to have ballots ready by the end of September, as are Illinois and two other states.posted by kirkaracha at 8:31 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
The electoral battlegrounds of Arizona and Ohio are to begin voting on Oct. 12, nearly four weeks before Election Day. And North Carolina and Florida will be underway before Halloween.
...
Nearly 32 percent of voters cast their ballots before Election Day in 2012, according to census data, compared with 29.7 percent in 2008 and 20 percent in 2004.
What I expect to see is a firehose of lies gushing from Trump's mouth.
Pretty much. This is where the moderator should come in. Remember when Candy Crowley fact checked during a presidential debate in the last election, and republicans lost their shit? And then around that same time, they were going crazy over Gwen Ifill, saying she was unfair as a moderator choice? Gwen freaking Ifill.
I believe the audiences in presidential debates are less partisan, and discouraged from applauding during the debate.
That was in years past, back in the days when you could probably get through a speech without a bunch of people yelling things almost the whole speech. I feel no sense of assurance that the crowd will be civil.
posted by cashman at 8:31 AM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Pretty much. This is where the moderator should come in. Remember when Candy Crowley fact checked during a presidential debate in the last election, and republicans lost their shit? And then around that same time, they were going crazy over Gwen Ifill, saying she was unfair as a moderator choice? Gwen freaking Ifill.
I believe the audiences in presidential debates are less partisan, and discouraged from applauding during the debate.
That was in years past, back in the days when you could probably get through a speech without a bunch of people yelling things almost the whole speech. I feel no sense of assurance that the crowd will be civil.
posted by cashman at 8:31 AM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Trump is only leading by 6 points in TEXAS!!! (new PPP poll).
posted by peacheater at 8:32 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 8:32 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
Maybe Hillary should just practice debates against random Trump supporters. Sure, they'll lack discipline, have no grasp of policy, and probably just hold disgusting and conspiratorial views about her, but that just makes them perfect stand ins for Trump.
But, more seriously, I don't see why people are worried about one of the most prepared, most knowledgeable, most disciplined politicians debating against her antithesis. Trump is a bloviating balloon animal of hate, he's got no substance, just a bunch of malarkey.
While I won't be surprised if the polls tighten around the debates, as reluctant Republicans see that Trump somehow manages to walk to his podium and then form a semi-coherent sentence, look and compare to how Trump is doing with the demographics that Romney won in 2012. He's doing worse. It all comes down to Democrats getting out the vote. Get out the friggin vote.
posted by airish at 8:33 AM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
But, more seriously, I don't see why people are worried about one of the most prepared, most knowledgeable, most disciplined politicians debating against her antithesis. Trump is a bloviating balloon animal of hate, he's got no substance, just a bunch of malarkey.
While I won't be surprised if the polls tighten around the debates, as reluctant Republicans see that Trump somehow manages to walk to his podium and then form a semi-coherent sentence, look and compare to how Trump is doing with the demographics that Romney won in 2012. He's doing worse. It all comes down to Democrats getting out the vote. Get out the friggin vote.
posted by airish at 8:33 AM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
I have never done LSD, so I have never experienced a bad trip.
I expect if I ever did, it might feel something like this election cycle.
Even the worst trip ends after 12 hours or so
posted by InfidelZombie at 8:33 AM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
I expect if I ever did, it might feel something like this election cycle.
Even the worst trip ends after 12 hours or so
posted by InfidelZombie at 8:33 AM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Clinton's within 6 in Texas according to PPP - and it's mostly on demographics. Can Clinton get the Hispanic vote out? If she does she takes Texas by those numbers.
posted by Francis at 8:34 AM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Francis at 8:34 AM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
but not in a Silverback way
I wonder how trump would have done in an actual dominance display contest with Harambe. Harambe continues to outpoll Jill Stein, right?
posted by spitbull at 8:35 AM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
I wonder how trump would have done in an actual dominance display contest with Harambe. Harambe continues to outpoll Jill Stein, right?
posted by spitbull at 8:35 AM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
Hillary has already noted that Trump can be provoked by a tweet; and although Donald's base likes it when he goes off the rails his general elect-ability goes down. All she has to do is refer to him as "a self-proclaimed millionaire" and mispronounce his name and the debate is hers.
posted by DanSachs at 8:36 AM on August 16, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by DanSachs at 8:36 AM on August 16, 2016 [17 favorites]
oh the NPR Politics podcast ended with them complaining about how Hillary has a podcast now in a devious attempt to evade their hardhitting journalism
I listened to that too, and in my opinion this is an extremely uncharitable take on what they said. Honestly, I thought that they were right that major candidates creating podcasts of their own is a way to have more scripted, and less critical takes for their talking points. I think the increased siloing and echo-chambering of information is a serious problem, even when it is done by candidates and issues we support.
posted by aught at 8:37 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
I listened to that too, and in my opinion this is an extremely uncharitable take on what they said. Honestly, I thought that they were right that major candidates creating podcasts of their own is a way to have more scripted, and less critical takes for their talking points. I think the increased siloing and echo-chambering of information is a serious problem, even when it is done by candidates and issues we support.
posted by aught at 8:37 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
I think it's important to remember that what you are seeing is a vacuum, of people making a conscious choice to withdraw their labor from a cause they don't believe in
I don't believe talented campaign strategists are in retreat from Trump because they don't share his views, or even because they don't think he'll win; I think they're in retreat because they don't want to get clusterfuck stink on their reputation. For most campaigns, even most losing campaigns, you can walk away, put it on your resume, and talk up your contribution to the ways the campaign worked. But the Trump campaign is lurching ineffectually from one crisis to another. The candidate isn't interested in turning it around and won't listen to the people who are trying to tell him how to do it. Anyone who is good at what they do is wasted in an institution that won't listen to them, and good campaigners both know this and know that their future potential employers know it. Anyone who goes offering their services in the future with "Donald Trump campaign" on their resume with an end-date of November 2016 is going to have trouble answering questions like "what were you doing there? what did you think you could actually accomplish there?"
posted by jackbishop at 8:37 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
I don't believe talented campaign strategists are in retreat from Trump because they don't share his views, or even because they don't think he'll win; I think they're in retreat because they don't want to get clusterfuck stink on their reputation. For most campaigns, even most losing campaigns, you can walk away, put it on your resume, and talk up your contribution to the ways the campaign worked. But the Trump campaign is lurching ineffectually from one crisis to another. The candidate isn't interested in turning it around and won't listen to the people who are trying to tell him how to do it. Anyone who is good at what they do is wasted in an institution that won't listen to them, and good campaigners both know this and know that their future potential employers know it. Anyone who goes offering their services in the future with "Donald Trump campaign" on their resume with an end-date of November 2016 is going to have trouble answering questions like "what were you doing there? what did you think you could actually accomplish there?"
posted by jackbishop at 8:37 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
I wonder how trump would have done in an actual dominance display contest with Harambe. Harambe continues to outpoll Jill Stein, right?
Texas has Harambe and Stein on 2% each.
posted by Francis at 8:38 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Texas has Harambe and Stein on 2% each.
posted by Francis at 8:38 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Mike Lupica is an MSNBC contributor now! He's hitting Trump right now. I've never seen him on anything but ESPN before. He just said the way Giuliani is talking lately, he wouldn't pass the NFL's concussion protocol. This is a nice new face.
posted by cashman at 8:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by cashman at 8:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
Texas has Harambe and Stein on 2% each.
It would delight me forever if angry partisan Democrats groused about self-centered, foolishly pure Harambe voters preventing Clinton from winning a massive enough landslide in 2016
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [24 favorites]
It would delight me forever if angry partisan Democrats groused about self-centered, foolishly pure Harambe voters preventing Clinton from winning a massive enough landslide in 2016
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [24 favorites]
Even the worst trip ends after 12 hours or so
That is not true, according to my informants
posted by thelonius at 8:41 AM on August 16, 2016
That is not true, according to my informants
posted by thelonius at 8:41 AM on August 16, 2016
Clinton's within 6 in Texas according to PPP
The detailed questions that PPP goes into are pretty revealing, too:
The detailed questions that PPP goes into are pretty revealing, too:
We continue to find that Trump voters overwhelmingly buy into his preemptive claims about the election being rigged. Just 19% of Trump voters grant that if Clinton wins the election it will be because she got more votes, while 71% say that it will just be because the election was rigged. More specifically 40% of Trump voters think that ACORN, which hasn't existed in years, will steal the election for Clinton to only 20% who don't think it will, and only 20% who are unsure. Some things Trump says are a step too far even for his support base though. We find that 'just' 35% of Trump supporters think Barack Obama founded ISIS, to 48% who don't think he's responsible for that.posted by zombieflanders at 8:46 AM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
Finally we polled on Texas secession. Overall 26% of voters would support leaving the United States to 59% who want to stay, and 15% who aren't sure either way. Among Trump voters support for secession goes up to 37%, with only 49% opposed to exiting. If you look at the Presidential race in Texas only among voters who are opposed to seceding from the United State, Clinton leads Trump 54/41. But that's offset by Trump's 72/20 advantage with the secession crowd. If Clinton is elected President this fall, the Trump voters really want out- in that case 61% say they'd support seceding from the United States, to only 29% who would stick around.
But, more seriously, I don't see why people are worried about one of the most prepared, most knowledgeable, most disciplined politicians debating against her antithesis. Trump is a bloviating balloon animal of hate, he's got no substance, just a bunch of malarkey.
Well, that's the problem, right? Ideally you could just stand there with a "what an idiot" condescending look on your face, say "I'm not even going to address that malarkey", and say your own policy answers to moderator questions straight. But that will never fly with the "public", they'll just say you're evading.
And if you respond off the cuff, the chance of saying something wrong the sharks will jump on is high.
I think it would play well to start every response with a sarcastic insult, then follow up with substance. "Donald, go back to economics school." "Donald, hire someone with foreign policy experience and ask them." "Is that what Putin told you to say?" Screw the "bitchy" fear, embrace it. It will kill with everyone but the freepers, and they're unreachable anyway.
Also, I think Tom Hanks could pull off a Trump role
posted by ctmf at 8:47 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
Well, that's the problem, right? Ideally you could just stand there with a "what an idiot" condescending look on your face, say "I'm not even going to address that malarkey", and say your own policy answers to moderator questions straight. But that will never fly with the "public", they'll just say you're evading.
And if you respond off the cuff, the chance of saying something wrong the sharks will jump on is high.
I think it would play well to start every response with a sarcastic insult, then follow up with substance. "Donald, go back to economics school." "Donald, hire someone with foreign policy experience and ask them." "Is that what Putin told you to say?" Screw the "bitchy" fear, embrace it. It will kill with everyone but the freepers, and they're unreachable anyway.
Also, I think Tom Hanks could pull off a Trump role
posted by ctmf at 8:47 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
The thing about LSD is that it comprehensively mucks about with your internal clock, often to the point of stopping it, so it genuinely feels like an eternity. The sensation of being aware but no time passing is... not something that is amenable to words.
But it's certainly comparable for the long wait for November 9.
posted by Devonian at 8:47 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
But it's certainly comparable for the long wait for November 9.
posted by Devonian at 8:47 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Texas has Harambe and Stein on 2% each.
Has Harambe been spotted in Russia with Stein and Michael Flynn?
posted by octobersurprise at 8:48 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Has Harambe been spotted in Russia with Stein and Michael Flynn?
posted by octobersurprise at 8:48 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Well, that's the problem, right? Ideally you could just stand there with a "what an idiot" condescending look on your face, say "I'm not even going to address that malarkey", and say your own policy answers to moderator questions straight. But that will never fly with the "public", they'll just say you're evading.
Does anyone else remember in the Democratic debate Martin O'Malley making a comment I think about trustworthiness and emails and character, then the moderator asking Clinton if she wanted to address that. And her just saying something like "Not particularly."
posted by Francis at 8:49 AM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
Does anyone else remember in the Democratic debate Martin O'Malley making a comment I think about trustworthiness and emails and character, then the moderator asking Clinton if she wanted to address that. And her just saying something like "Not particularly."
posted by Francis at 8:49 AM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
Maggie Haberman and Ashley Parker: Rogers [sic] Ailes to Advise Donald Trump Ahead of Presidential Debates
Mr. Ailes is aiding Mr. Trump’s team as it turns its attention to the first debate with Hillary Clinton, the Democratic nominee, on Sept. 26 on Long Island, according to three people briefed on the move, who insisted on anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter.posted by zombieflanders at 8:54 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
Two of them said that Mr. Ailes’s role could extend beyond the debates, which Mr. Trump’s advisers see as crucial to vaulting him back into strong contention for the presidency after a series of self-inflicted wounds that have eroded his standing in public opinion polls.
It was not clear when Mr. Ailes began helping the campaign. He resigned his post at Fox News on July 21 amid an investigation into allegations of sexual harassment by former female employees that occurred after a lawsuit by the former anchor Gretchen Carlson.
It was also not immediately known whether Mr. Ailes, who received $40 million in an exit agreement with Fox News, will be paid for his work on the campaign, or how much time he will be devoting to it. Mr. Trump’s campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, is also not being paid.
Every time he mentions someone who worked for him: "are they suing you now?"
Can we get Jon Stewart to coach her?
posted by ctmf at 8:55 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Can we get Jon Stewart to coach her?
posted by ctmf at 8:55 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Sean Hannity called a columnist an asshole. What happened next explains Donald Trump.
But in conservative land, opinions like these are perfectly acceptable to hold. Outside criticism is dismissed as a product of liberal bias in media and academia, or as rank apologism for the Obama administration. This is the environment in which climate change denial flourishes, and the idea that cutting taxes on the rich decreases deficits can remain a respectable thing to say.posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:56 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
There is no bright line between Bret Stephens and Sean Hannity. They can both only exist in a conservative informational environment where independent intellectual authorities are disregarded and a certain set of politically convenient but indefensible ideas are treated as catechisms. The key difference is that Hannity is less pretentious about it.
The detailed questions that PPP goes into are pretty revealing, too:
Also the fact that Clinton is winning in Texas with those under 65.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 8:56 AM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
Also the fact that Clinton is winning in Texas with those under 65.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 8:56 AM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
Also, Trump is allegedly receiving his first classified briefing tomorrow, and as always, @darth is on it.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:57 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 8:57 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
I think it would play well to start every response with a sarcastic insult, then follow up with substance. "Donald, go back to economics school." "Donald, hire someone with foreign policy experience and ask them."
Oy, no. Donald Trump has been punching himself in the face now for a few weeks and the general public hates him. The Clinton campaign has done well to stand back and be steady in opposition. Why would the debates be any different? Just explain directly how what he is saying is nonsense, then get on with the persuading.
I think viewers of debates go into jury-duty mode. They want to be persuaded with an argument. They don't want the kind of WWF nonsense Trump trafficks in. If Hillary shows up to make a case and Trump shows up to make a freak show, she wins.
posted by argybarg at 8:57 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Oy, no. Donald Trump has been punching himself in the face now for a few weeks and the general public hates him. The Clinton campaign has done well to stand back and be steady in opposition. Why would the debates be any different? Just explain directly how what he is saying is nonsense, then get on with the persuading.
I think viewers of debates go into jury-duty mode. They want to be persuaded with an argument. They don't want the kind of WWF nonsense Trump trafficks in. If Hillary shows up to make a case and Trump shows up to make a freak show, she wins.
posted by argybarg at 8:57 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
I don't see why people are worried about one of the most prepared, most knowledgeable, most disciplined politicians debating against her antithesis.
If the audience, in person and at home, were all mefi people, I wouldn't worry in the slightest. But that is not the case. Petty insults can easily beat reason and logic for many a spectator. Especially these days, truth often means nothing. Hillary has the experience and the knowledge. Anybody who has been paying attention understands that. Nobody is silly enough to think that Donald Trump knows more policy, understands more, or has more experience doing the things presidents do. I am not worried about the substance, the underlying core of the debate. Hillary Clinton has already surpassed Trump on any issue they raise. I'm worried about the overall audience and how Trump's insults and lies will affect the portrayal of the "debate".
posted by cashman at 8:58 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
If the audience, in person and at home, were all mefi people, I wouldn't worry in the slightest. But that is not the case. Petty insults can easily beat reason and logic for many a spectator. Especially these days, truth often means nothing. Hillary has the experience and the knowledge. Anybody who has been paying attention understands that. Nobody is silly enough to think that Donald Trump knows more policy, understands more, or has more experience doing the things presidents do. I am not worried about the substance, the underlying core of the debate. Hillary Clinton has already surpassed Trump on any issue they raise. I'm worried about the overall audience and how Trump's insults and lies will affect the portrayal of the "debate".
posted by cashman at 8:58 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Harry Enten at 538: The GOP’s Chances Of Holding The Senate Are Following Trump Downhill:
Please, please, please.
This is the stuff that matters. Texas turning blue would be nice, but Clinton clearing 270 and having an allied Senate majority is so much more preferable to any electoral college blowout.
posted by wildblueyonder at 8:59 AM on August 16, 2016 [24 favorites]
Please, please, please.
This is the stuff that matters. Texas turning blue would be nice, but Clinton clearing 270 and having an allied Senate majority is so much more preferable to any electoral college blowout.
posted by wildblueyonder at 8:59 AM on August 16, 2016 [24 favorites]
Trump's style has alienated most of the electorate and would doubly alienate most debate viewers.
posted by argybarg at 8:59 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by argybarg at 8:59 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
She copped that "not particularly" riff from the expert, Newt Gingrich. In a 2012 republican primary debate he was asked if he wanted to address some embarrassing revelation and he replied "No, but I will," and got massive applause before launching into an anti-media spiel that gave him his only brief lead as a candidate.
"There you go again" changed everything.
This is why I am a fan of the "oh, bless your heart, Donald" gesture, which will be immediately intelligible to many republican women. Fake sincere condescension worded as praise will make him lose his shit. Believe me!
posted by spitbull at 9:04 AM on August 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
"There you go again" changed everything.
This is why I am a fan of the "oh, bless your heart, Donald" gesture, which will be immediately intelligible to many republican women. Fake sincere condescension worded as praise will make him lose his shit. Believe me!
posted by spitbull at 9:04 AM on August 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
Also the fact that Clinton is winning in Texas with those under 65.
Yeah, wowzers:
Trump's lead [in Texas] is based entirely on his holding a 63-33 advantage among seniors. With voters under 65, Clinton leads him 49-45. And when you look just specifically at voters under 45, Clinton leads Trump 60-35.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:05 AM on August 16, 2016 [25 favorites]
Yeah, wowzers:
Trump's lead [in Texas] is based entirely on his holding a 63-33 advantage among seniors. With voters under 65, Clinton leads him 49-45. And when you look just specifically at voters under 45, Clinton leads Trump 60-35.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:05 AM on August 16, 2016 [25 favorites]
Two of them said that Mr. Ailes’s role could extend beyond the debates, which Mr. Trump’s advisers see as crucial to vaulting him back into strong contention for the presidency after a series of self-inflicted wounds that have eroded his standing in public opinion polls.
This is kind a crazy statement since the debate is over a month away. If they wait that long to vault back, they are f*cked.
posted by OmieWise at 9:05 AM on August 16, 2016
This is kind a crazy statement since the debate is over a month away. If they wait that long to vault back, they are f*cked.
posted by OmieWise at 9:05 AM on August 16, 2016
Which is another way of saying what I said earlier about his sales culture background.
She needs to study those "how to buy a new car without getting ripped off" guides.
posted by spitbull at 9:06 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
She needs to study those "how to buy a new car without getting ripped off" guides.
posted by spitbull at 9:06 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
reagan's secretary of state george schultz: "god help us" if trump gets elected.
in other news george schultz is still alive
posted by murphy slaw at 9:07 AM on August 16, 2016 [27 favorites]
in other news george schultz is still alive
posted by murphy slaw at 9:07 AM on August 16, 2016 [27 favorites]
"There you go again" changed everything.
As Ronnie said, "You'd be surprised how much being a good actor pays off." Remarkably, for a man known for his TV show, Donald Trump has demonstrated that he's not a good actor and that's one of his weaknesses. He's swell at channeling rage, but too much the narcissist to be a good actor.
in other news george schultz is still alive
Go figure, eh?
Trump tried to invite himself to Chelsea Clinton's wedding
As Ronnie said, "You'd be surprised how much being a good actor pays off." Remarkably, for a man known for his TV show, Donald Trump has demonstrated that he's not a good actor and that's one of his weaknesses. He's swell at channeling rage, but too much the narcissist to be a good actor.
in other news george schultz is still alive
Go figure, eh?
Trump tried to invite himself to Chelsea Clinton's wedding
When Trump didn’t receive an invitation, he reportedly called Doug Band, an adviser to the former president.posted by octobersurprise at 9:17 AM on August 16, 2016 [17 favorites]
“I’m supposed to be at the wedding, Doug,” Trump said. “But I didn’t receive the invitation, and I need to know where to go.”
TPM: Vulnerable GOP Sen.: ‘Big Distinction’ Between Voting Trump And Endorsing :
posted by palindromic at 9:20 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
Asked by Raju to define the difference between a vote and an endorsement, Ayotte insisted that the distance between the two was significant.According to the Harry Enten piece at 538 linked above, Ayotte is down 7 points against Hassan.
“There’s actually a big distinction,” Ayotte said. “Because everyone gets a vote—I do too–but an endorsement is one where I’m out campaigning with someone. And so while he has my vote he doesn’t have my endorsement, and I’m going to continue to really focus on my race.”
[...]
Ayotte's challenger, New Hampshire Gov. Maggie Hassan (D), has pointed to her opponent's vote-but-not-endorse stance on Trump as evidence that she should not win re-election.
“I think people should hear that statement for what it is,” Hassan told CNN. “She’s trying to have it both ways. I don’t think any elected leader who is supporting Trump for the presidency should hold office.”
posted by palindromic at 9:20 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
I was very disappointed when Donald Trump was invited back to host SNL last fall.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:21 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:21 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Roger Ailes is angling to run Trump TV, that's all.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 9:23 AM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by TWinbrook8 at 9:23 AM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
I do hope these people in Texas answering pollsters about how much they want to secede from the U.S. will indeed pack their bags when Trump loses, and take all his other racist supporters with them. Bye bye, all. Maybe you can find some nice all white region like Antarctica to have your dictatorship in.
Also, in news today from the hill.com, the Trump campaign continues to flaunt the law and the warnings they are breaking it by soliciting foreign contributions.
Not only is this yet another indication that Trump is a fraudster, but it also demonstrates -- again -- he has a third rate campaign staff.
posted by bearwife at 9:23 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also, in news today from the hill.com, the Trump campaign continues to flaunt the law and the warnings they are breaking it by soliciting foreign contributions.
Not only is this yet another indication that Trump is a fraudster, but it also demonstrates -- again -- he has a third rate campaign staff.
posted by bearwife at 9:23 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Owen Ellickson @onlxn 1m1 minute ago
TRUMP: You know how you're scared I'll seem woman-hatey in the debates?
RYAN: Yes.
TRUMP: Meet my new debate coach!
AILES: [squishing noise]
The ongoing Trump Ryan joke from this account is pretty good.
posted by OmieWise at 9:24 AM on August 16, 2016 [19 favorites]
TRUMP: You know how you're scared I'll seem woman-hatey in the debates?
RYAN: Yes.
TRUMP: Meet my new debate coach!
AILES: [squishing noise]
The ongoing Trump Ryan joke from this account is pretty good.
posted by OmieWise at 9:24 AM on August 16, 2016 [19 favorites]
Re: Ailes
@pourmecoffee: "We're polling at 1% among African-Americans, but how can we further alienate *women*? All ideas go on whiteboard."
posted by ctmf at 9:24 AM on August 16, 2016 [22 favorites]
@pourmecoffee: "We're polling at 1% among African-Americans, but how can we further alienate *women*? All ideas go on whiteboard."
posted by ctmf at 9:24 AM on August 16, 2016 [22 favorites]
Also, in news today from the hill.com, the Trump campaign continues to flaunt the law
flaut flaut flaut not flaunt flaut
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:26 AM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
flaut flaut flaut not flaunt flaut
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:26 AM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
I have never done LSD, so I have never experienced a bad trip.
I expect if I ever did, it might feel something like this election cycle.
Sort of... A bad trip is more like, given the election season, YOU are Donald Trump. So is everyone else.
posted by krinklyfig at 9:27 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
I expect if I ever did, it might feel something like this election cycle.
Sort of... A bad trip is more like, given the election season, YOU are Donald Trump. So is everyone else.
posted by krinklyfig at 9:27 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
@ABCPolitics
NEW: Donald Trump scheduled to receive first classified briefing as GOP nominee at FBI’s New York Field Office tomorrow.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:29 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
NEW: Donald Trump scheduled to receive first classified briefing as GOP nominee at FBI’s New York Field Office tomorrow.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:29 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think viewers of debates go into jury-duty mode. They want to be persuaded with an argument.
Well, maybe, but I agree with those who point out the importance of post-debate spin. David Brooks is going to find something, anything about Clinton to sow Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt to the NPR crowd. That's his job.
Also too, more people will consume the post-debate analysis than actually watch it. The perceived winner of the debates will be the one whom the media anoints. And the media does not want to have to sell ads for a "Hillary cruises to easy victory, Trump never had a chance" narrative from September thru November.
The saving throw here is that there's a viable counter-narrative: "Trump Steps On His Own Foot Again." Trump owes his campaign to the fact that he's always good for ratings, which means the media will be just as happy to cover the death spiral of his campaign as long as people tune into his Latest Outrage / Screwup. And I feel confident in banking on Trump screwing up.
posted by Gelatin at 9:32 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
Well, maybe, but I agree with those who point out the importance of post-debate spin. David Brooks is going to find something, anything about Clinton to sow Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt to the NPR crowd. That's his job.
Also too, more people will consume the post-debate analysis than actually watch it. The perceived winner of the debates will be the one whom the media anoints. And the media does not want to have to sell ads for a "Hillary cruises to easy victory, Trump never had a chance" narrative from September thru November.
The saving throw here is that there's a viable counter-narrative: "Trump Steps On His Own Foot Again." Trump owes his campaign to the fact that he's always good for ratings, which means the media will be just as happy to cover the death spiral of his campaign as long as people tune into his Latest Outrage / Screwup. And I feel confident in banking on Trump screwing up.
posted by Gelatin at 9:32 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
"flout," with an o
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 9:35 AM on August 16, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 9:35 AM on August 16, 2016 [20 favorites]
Donald Trump scheduled to receive first classified briefing
Haha, guaranteed to contain something false that Putin would have to visibly react to if he "knew"
posted by ctmf at 9:36 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Haha, guaranteed to contain something false that Putin would have to visibly react to if he "knew"
posted by ctmf at 9:36 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
"flout," with an o
There you go, flounting your spelling skills.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 9:38 AM on August 16, 2016 [37 favorites]
There you go, flounting your spelling skills.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 9:38 AM on August 16, 2016 [37 favorites]
If Hillary is capable and clear in the debate and Donald is only half as shitty as usual, we'll hear lots of commentary about how he "exceeded expectations". We could use it as the basis for a drinking game if we wanted to totally destroy our own livers.
posted by puddledork at 9:38 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by puddledork at 9:38 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Also, in news today from the hill.com, the Trump campaign continues to flaunt the law
flaut flaut flaut not flaunt flaut
I’m imagining James Galway playing the Safe and Timely Interstate Placement of Foster Children Act of 2006.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 9:39 AM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
flaut flaut flaut not flaunt flaut
I’m imagining James Galway playing the Safe and Timely Interstate Placement of Foster Children Act of 2006.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 9:39 AM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
Also, in news today from the hill.com, the Trump campaign continues to flaunt the law
Flout. I am flaunting my pedantry, and flouting the law that correcting someone's spelling on the internet dependably makes you look like a jackass.
can't be helped
posted by miles per flower at 9:39 AM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
Flout. I am flaunting my pedantry, and flouting the law that correcting someone's spelling on the internet dependably makes you look like a jackass.
can't be helped
posted by miles per flower at 9:39 AM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
my one and only LSD trip involved an accidental visit to a pit bull breeding farm and an X-Files marathon. It lasted about twenty horrible years
posted by angrycat at 9:40 AM on August 16, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 9:40 AM on August 16, 2016 [20 favorites]
Imagine being the NSA/CIA analysts tasked with determining what to put in Trump's briefing. They have to suspect him of being the Manchurian candidate, but he's entitled to get top level info, do they feed him a canary to see if it gets back to the KGB? Or make it so general he can't leak anything of actual value, like reading him a list of "secrets" that's actually just pubic knowledge of where US forces are currently operating? Can they risk telling him anything actually classified? Or do they try to just educate him about the basics of US foreign policy in a futile attempt to bring him up to speed in case he does win? Several different ways to play this from the spook's perspective.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:40 AM on August 16, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:40 AM on August 16, 2016 [17 favorites]
Trump tried to invite himself to Chelsea Clinton's wedding
It all makes sense now. Trump is Maleficent, Chelsea is Princess Aurora and we've all been pricking our fingers against the spindle for the last year (and the next 83 days at least)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:40 AM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
It all makes sense now. Trump is Maleficent, Chelsea is Princess Aurora and we've all been pricking our fingers against the spindle for the last year (and the next 83 days at least)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:40 AM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
Safe and Timely Interstate Placement of Foster Children Act of 2006.
tell me this isn't a bill to leave foster kids on the side of the freeway
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [17 favorites]
tell me this isn't a bill to leave foster kids on the side of the freeway
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [17 favorites]
Hillary Clinton Seeks To 'Run Up The Vote' In Philly | Morning Joe | MSNBC
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
hell at this point I think she's more trying to run up the vote in Houston
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:43 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:43 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Minutes later, Khalid was talking on the phone with his family when he stepped outside to get the mail.Fuck Trump. Fuck his rhetoric. There is blood on his hands.
Majors was waiting for him, police say.
The 61-year-old opened fire, fatally wounding the 37-year-old Khalid, according to police.
...
“He repeatedly attacked our ethnicity and perceived religion, making racist comments,” Victoria Jabara Williams wrote on Facebook. “He often called us ‘dirty Arabs,’ ‘filthy Lebanese,’ ‘Aye-rabs,’ and ‘Mooslems.’ ”
(The Jabaras are actually Christian, Rebecca Abou-Chedid, a family friend, told The Post.)
posted by Talez at 9:46 AM on August 16, 2016 [44 favorites]
Just one "well, bless your heart, Donald!"
It's all I ask.
YES THIS ONE THOUSAND TIMES. Or, really, one time. Said in response to one of his "I have sacrificed so much/worked so hard/created so many jobs" pronouncements. Straight-faced, no sarcastic tone at all, not even the hint of a smile that a mother gives a five-year-old who's telling her he put away all his toys. The tone used with a neighbor that you don't like, who announced that he finally got the job... not "fuck you" or "aww it's nice you did something right" but "that's a good thing, I suppose, but someone with a bit more awareness would realize this isn't really the right venue to say it."
Any bets on whether DJT even know what "bless your heart" means? I would love to see him puff up his chest like he actually got her to admit that he's awesome.
... and then have a meltdown on Twitter later.
He doesn't really have a mode other than "aggressive," but a man being aggressive against a woman doesn't play very well even (or especially) with Trump's target demographic.
He hasn't been facing pointed questions from women for a while; when he does, he doesn't do well. He doesn't seem capable of perceiving women as peers, as people he owes the same respect and accountability that he does to his white male demographic-of-choice. He gets defensive and lashes out when they overstep what he thinks women should do - which is "be ornamental and support their menfolk."
When he clashed with Carly Fiorini, she was one of over a dozen opponents, and she wasn't in the handful at the top. Against Clinton, his combination of sexism and delusions ("she founded ISIS!") are going to sink him.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:46 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
It's all I ask.
YES THIS ONE THOUSAND TIMES. Or, really, one time. Said in response to one of his "I have sacrificed so much/worked so hard/created so many jobs" pronouncements. Straight-faced, no sarcastic tone at all, not even the hint of a smile that a mother gives a five-year-old who's telling her he put away all his toys. The tone used with a neighbor that you don't like, who announced that he finally got the job... not "fuck you" or "aww it's nice you did something right" but "that's a good thing, I suppose, but someone with a bit more awareness would realize this isn't really the right venue to say it."
Any bets on whether DJT even know what "bless your heart" means? I would love to see him puff up his chest like he actually got her to admit that he's awesome.
... and then have a meltdown on Twitter later.
He doesn't really have a mode other than "aggressive," but a man being aggressive against a woman doesn't play very well even (or especially) with Trump's target demographic.
He hasn't been facing pointed questions from women for a while; when he does, he doesn't do well. He doesn't seem capable of perceiving women as peers, as people he owes the same respect and accountability that he does to his white male demographic-of-choice. He gets defensive and lashes out when they overstep what he thinks women should do - which is "be ornamental and support their menfolk."
When he clashed with Carly Fiorini, she was one of over a dozen opponents, and she wasn't in the handful at the top. Against Clinton, his combination of sexism and delusions ("she founded ISIS!") are going to sink him.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:46 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
in other news george schultz is still alive
When he was secretary of state, I always used to mix him up with Charles Schultz.
posted by bardophile at 9:48 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
When he was secretary of state, I always used to mix him up with Charles Schultz.
posted by bardophile at 9:48 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
This is the stuff that matters. Texas turning blue would be nice, but Clinton clearing 270 and having an allied Senate majority is so much more preferable to any electoral college blowout.
True, but they're not really independent. There would be substantial downballot effects of Clinton winning in states that she is not expected to. Generally it seems that polling in at-risk Senatorial seats seems to follow the margin of Clinton victory (i.e. if she wins by 5 points, Dem senators might win by 1 point). So running up the score is important in that sense.
posted by peacheater at 9:49 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
True, but they're not really independent. There would be substantial downballot effects of Clinton winning in states that she is not expected to. Generally it seems that polling in at-risk Senatorial seats seems to follow the margin of Clinton victory (i.e. if she wins by 5 points, Dem senators might win by 1 point). So running up the score is important in that sense.
posted by peacheater at 9:49 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
Sorry about the typo. I actually do know the word flout, but my autocorrect does not.
posted by bearwife at 9:50 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by bearwife at 9:50 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
a man being aggressive against a woman doesn't play very well even (or especially) with Trump's target demographic
Er... really? I'd say that "men who are aggressive towards women" is one of Trumps most key demographics.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:51 AM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
Er... really? I'd say that "men who are aggressive towards women" is one of Trumps most key demographics.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:51 AM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
So my family is Indian American and my parents are Hindu, but my mother had lots of salwar khameez, despite that being more associated with Muslim wear. This year she gave them all away because of fear of being associated as Muslim. Also, neighbors have been asking her if she's Muslim. This is in a supposedly diverse and tolerant Eastern seaboard area.
posted by zutalors! at 9:51 AM on August 16, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by zutalors! at 9:51 AM on August 16, 2016 [18 favorites]
CNN is currently reporting on this: 'The FBI is expected to send to Congress Tuesday afternoon a report the bureau provided to the Justice Department last month to explain why it recommended no charges in the Hillary Clinton email server investigation, according to US officials briefed on the matter.'
'The material is designated classified so it will need to be reviewed by congressional officials in a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility, or SCIF. And due to its confidential status, it cannot legally be shared with the public.'
So, people in Congress would be able to review it, but presumably not talk about it. Oh boy.
posted by cashman at 9:52 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
'The material is designated classified so it will need to be reviewed by congressional officials in a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility, or SCIF. And due to its confidential status, it cannot legally be shared with the public.'
So, people in Congress would be able to review it, but presumably not talk about it. Oh boy.
posted by cashman at 9:52 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Or make it so general he can't leak anything of actual value, like reading him a list of "secrets" that's actually just pubic knowledge of where US forces are currently operating?
Trump opens the dossier on military operations and it's just a bunch of dick pics from the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
posted by XMLicious at 9:54 AM on August 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
So, people in Congress would be able to review it, but presumably not talk about it. Oh boy.
All aboard the approaching unsubtle innuendo train!
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:54 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
All aboard the approaching unsubtle innuendo train!
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:54 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
So, people in Congress would be able to review it, but presumably not talk about it. Oh boy.
Okay, bets are open on which one happens first:
(a) There's a high-profile hearing dedicated to Republicans saying "I'm not allowed to say what was in the FBI's report but I assure you it was very, very bad and Hillary Clinton is absolutely a criminal, and maybe DB Cooper!"
(b) Jason Chaffetz leaks it.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:56 AM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
Okay, bets are open on which one happens first:
(a) There's a high-profile hearing dedicated to Republicans saying "I'm not allowed to say what was in the FBI's report but I assure you it was very, very bad and Hillary Clinton is absolutely a criminal, and maybe DB Cooper!"
(b) Jason Chaffetz leaks it.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:56 AM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
You know -- I've lived in the South my whole life, and I think the idea that "bless your heart" is always some kind of ice-cold burn is sort of a myth? Not to claim that I speak for everybody, but in my experience it means something kind of different.
It's definitely something that older members of my family say (mostly women), and it can be used ironically in a denigrating way. But this is pretty rare, IME. It's more frequently affectionate. It's used to convey ideas in the vicinity of pity, concern, maternalism and so forth. It's mostly positive.
You can see how it's an easy jump from that kind of meaning to "what a dumbass" but when people use it that way it definitely seems like a subversion of its primary usage.
Don't automatically feel offended if some Southern grandma says "bless your heart" to you, is what I'm getting at. And if Hillary Clinton actually used it in a debate — which she wouldn't and shouldn't, since it is a gendered kind of expression and mostly used by an older generation and so would emphasize ideas about her that she doesn't want — it wouldn't necessarily be a slam-dunk that the audience would understand that it was intended to be a dis.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 10:00 AM on August 16, 2016 [34 favorites]
It's definitely something that older members of my family say (mostly women), and it can be used ironically in a denigrating way. But this is pretty rare, IME. It's more frequently affectionate. It's used to convey ideas in the vicinity of pity, concern, maternalism and so forth. It's mostly positive.
You can see how it's an easy jump from that kind of meaning to "what a dumbass" but when people use it that way it definitely seems like a subversion of its primary usage.
Don't automatically feel offended if some Southern grandma says "bless your heart" to you, is what I'm getting at. And if Hillary Clinton actually used it in a debate — which she wouldn't and shouldn't, since it is a gendered kind of expression and mostly used by an older generation and so would emphasize ideas about her that she doesn't want — it wouldn't necessarily be a slam-dunk that the audience would understand that it was intended to be a dis.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 10:00 AM on August 16, 2016 [34 favorites]
Which is another way of saying what I said earlier about his sales culture background.
She needs to study those "how to buy a new car without getting ripped off" guides.
Unfortunately, the good ones recognize that the best way to win is not to play and show you how to minimize the amount of contact that you have with sales people (don't accept phone calls, solicit bids via email, etc.). So, not much help there, unless you think that it may be better to just not have any debate, which I think is a plausible position.
posted by indubitable at 10:01 AM on August 16, 2016
She needs to study those "how to buy a new car without getting ripped off" guides.
Unfortunately, the good ones recognize that the best way to win is not to play and show you how to minimize the amount of contact that you have with sales people (don't accept phone calls, solicit bids via email, etc.). So, not much help there, unless you think that it may be better to just not have any debate, which I think is a plausible position.
posted by indubitable at 10:01 AM on August 16, 2016
Trump opens his classified briefing, it's a picture of Joe Biden flipping the double bird
But the photo is legit classified as Top Secret so Trump would be breaking the law if he tells anyone about it
Anyway that is my fantasy dream briefing scenario
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:02 AM on August 16, 2016 [79 favorites]
But the photo is legit classified as Top Secret so Trump would be breaking the law if he tells anyone about it
Anyway that is my fantasy dream briefing scenario
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:02 AM on August 16, 2016 [79 favorites]
Hillary Clinton in Teen Vogue: Why Our Generation Is What's RIGHT With America:
Britain and Donovan aren’t outliers. They’re part of a rising generation that’s more diverse, open, and connected than ever. If you’re reading this, it’s a safe bet that you’re part of that as well. Everywhere I go, smart, driven young people are creating new ways to communicate, starting companies that innovate, and pursuing jobs that have an impact on people’s lives. They’re standing up to some of the biggest challenges in the world today, from income inequality to gun violence to climate change.posted by palindromic at 10:02 AM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
A smart former U.S. president—who happens to be my husband—once said there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right with America. I couldn’t agree more. And your generation embodies everything that is most right with America. By harnessing your energy and ideas, we can solve many of the problems we face. So whether you’re already working hard to change the world or just starting out, here are three things you can do right now to make your voice heard.
So my family is Indian American and my parents are Hindu, but my mother had lots of salwar khameez, despite that being more associated with Muslim wear. This year she gave them all away because of fear of being associated as Muslim. Also, neighbors have been asking her if she's Muslim. This is in a supposedly diverse and tolerant Eastern seaboard area.
You think being a Hindu saves you? Check out Aulani Kaaihue for Congress who is going up against Tulsi Gabbard. Kaaihue is batshit fucking crazy and doing a severe full court press on the anti-Hinduism.
posted by Talez at 10:06 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
You think being a Hindu saves you? Check out Aulani Kaaihue for Congress who is going up against Tulsi Gabbard. Kaaihue is batshit fucking crazy and doing a severe full court press on the anti-Hinduism.
posted by Talez at 10:06 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
You think being a Hindu saves you?
I'm not a Hindu. And that wasn't the point of my comment.
posted by zutalors! at 10:08 AM on August 16, 2016 [19 favorites]
And that's Hawaii where invocations before high school football ARE BUDDHIST.
posted by Talez at 10:08 AM on August 16, 2016
posted by Talez at 10:08 AM on August 16, 2016
I'm not a Hindu. And that wasn't the point of my comment.
It was a metaphorical "you". I'm sorry about that.
posted by Talez at 10:09 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
It was a metaphorical "you". I'm sorry about that.
posted by Talez at 10:09 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
@ABCPolitics
NEW: Donald Trump scheduled to receive first classified briefing as GOP nominee at FBI’s New York Field Office tomorrow.
Response from darth™:
NEW: Donald Trump scheduled to receive first classified briefing as GOP nominee at FBI’s New York Field Office tomorrow.
Response from darth™:
"...and this couple is living in america raising a family, but are really soviet KGB spies"posted by ZeusHumms at 10:10 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
"amazing stuff amazing"
Also regarding the debates, it kind of makes sense that Trump is completely suited to follow the republican pattern of destroying everything, and destroy the debate itself. Someone linked an article that I can't find now, that talked about how republicans attacked journalism, education, government itself, and more, and now are set to destroy their own party.
Trump could treat the debate like he treats many of his appearances. Just long, rambling windbaggy statements where he throws in everything from what stuff he has to sell, to just potshots at groups he doesn't like, or seemingly whatever floats through his brain at the moment. This is why I think the moderator needs to be on alert.
It can't be a substitute teacher type who lets the class clown run amok. It has to be a gifted educator type, who can basically make the debate area a sacred place. If Biden was possible, for example, as the moderator. Bob Costas in days gone by, Phil Donahue.
posted by cashman at 10:11 AM on August 16, 2016
Trump could treat the debate like he treats many of his appearances. Just long, rambling windbaggy statements where he throws in everything from what stuff he has to sell, to just potshots at groups he doesn't like, or seemingly whatever floats through his brain at the moment. This is why I think the moderator needs to be on alert.
It can't be a substitute teacher type who lets the class clown run amok. It has to be a gifted educator type, who can basically make the debate area a sacred place. If Biden was possible, for example, as the moderator. Bob Costas in days gone by, Phil Donahue.
posted by cashman at 10:11 AM on August 16, 2016
I'm not a Hindu. And that wasn't the point of my comment.
It was a metaphorical "you". I'm sorry about that.
it's just odd to share a comment that comes from lived experience and have people who seem outside of that experience try to make you feel not scared enough or something. It's sort of startling.
I mean, yes, I am brown and have had reason to be scared all year, but then again there have been reasons to be scared since 9/11 and you have to sort of mitigate things in a way.
posted by zutalors! at 10:12 AM on August 16, 2016 [23 favorites]
Kaaihue is batshit fucking crazy
:opens link:
Holy shit this person is batshit fucking crazy.
posted by cashman at 10:14 AM on August 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
:opens link:
Holy shit this person is batshit fucking crazy.
posted by cashman at 10:14 AM on August 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
So, people in Congress would be able to review it, but presumably not talk about it. Oh boy.
Win/win. It lets them play "I know but can't say..." while also ensuring that they can't make up details without appearing to violate an NDA.
In other news, Stone doubling down on the "rigged" angle.
posted by ctmf at 10:15 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Win/win. It lets them play "I know but can't say..." while also ensuring that they can't make up details without appearing to violate an NDA.
In other news, Stone doubling down on the "rigged" angle.
posted by ctmf at 10:15 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's more frequently affectionate. It's used to convey ideas in the vicinity of pity, concern, maternalism and so forth. It's mostly positive.
I forget that many people don't realize this. It's usually positive - it's only used as a slapdown in settings where a woman has absolutely no socially-correct way to call out someone, often a man, on being an ass in public. And it often doesn't mean "this guy is a bombastic fool, only I'm too much of a lady to say that directly," but "I believe in the good inherent in all people, so I know that this person must believe, in their inner heart, that they're doing the right thing." It's a way to say "I may not agree with your actions but I can empathize with the strength of your convictions that motivates them."
(In more positive settings, it's a way to say "the love that motivates you shines through everything you do." It's really, really not an insult most of the time.)
And I would love to see Hillary use that in the debates. Would love to see her throw in some hints of "Yes, I am an older woman - I am ready to step forward and be Clan Matriarch because your damn boys' squabbling has brought us nearly to ruin."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:16 AM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
I forget that many people don't realize this. It's usually positive - it's only used as a slapdown in settings where a woman has absolutely no socially-correct way to call out someone, often a man, on being an ass in public. And it often doesn't mean "this guy is a bombastic fool, only I'm too much of a lady to say that directly," but "I believe in the good inherent in all people, so I know that this person must believe, in their inner heart, that they're doing the right thing." It's a way to say "I may not agree with your actions but I can empathize with the strength of your convictions that motivates them."
(In more positive settings, it's a way to say "the love that motivates you shines through everything you do." It's really, really not an insult most of the time.)
And I would love to see Hillary use that in the debates. Would love to see her throw in some hints of "Yes, I am an older woman - I am ready to step forward and be Clan Matriarch because your damn boys' squabbling has brought us nearly to ruin."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:16 AM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
If I were preparing The Orange One's briefing, I would definitely put something in there about Area 51, Roswell, and Majestic 12, just to fuck with him and his buddy Alex Jones.
posted by entropicamericana at 10:17 AM on August 16, 2016
posted by entropicamericana at 10:17 AM on August 16, 2016
This year she gave them all away because of fear of being associated as Muslim.
Yeah, sadly understandable. I have family that does not go to the mosque or wear desi clothes for fear of being targeted.
posted by bardophile at 10:19 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, sadly understandable. I have family that does not go to the mosque or wear desi clothes for fear of being targeted.
posted by bardophile at 10:19 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
it's just odd to share a comment that comes from lived experience and have people who seem outside of that experience try to make you feel not scared enough or something. It's sort of startling.
That's my white privilege showing. I'm sorry.
posted by Talez at 10:20 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
That's my white privilege showing. I'm sorry.
posted by Talez at 10:20 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
I've been asked if I was Muslim before.
In the parish hall, after Mass.
I was like, did you not see me in church?
I read one of the lessons.
It was a sweet little old lady, of course she didn't mean anything by it.
But that was the moment when it really, really sank in for me: there are a lot of people (mostly white people) who will only ever see my skin when they look at me.
Not what I am saying, not what I am doing, only ever my skin.
It hurts.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:21 AM on August 16, 2016 [81 favorites]
In the parish hall, after Mass.
I was like, did you not see me in church?
I read one of the lessons.
It was a sweet little old lady, of course she didn't mean anything by it.
But that was the moment when it really, really sank in for me: there are a lot of people (mostly white people) who will only ever see my skin when they look at me.
Not what I am saying, not what I am doing, only ever my skin.
It hurts.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:21 AM on August 16, 2016 [81 favorites]
The fact that Islamaphobes often go after Sikhs and Hindus tells you everything you need to know about the "I'm not racist! Islam isn't a race!" horseshit.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:21 AM on August 16, 2016 [58 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:21 AM on August 16, 2016 [58 favorites]
Holy shit this person is batshit fucking crazy.
folks, if you ever wanted to see the Mortal Kombat logo used in somebody's campaign graphics, now's your chance
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:23 AM on August 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
folks, if you ever wanted to see the Mortal Kombat logo used in somebody's campaign graphics, now's your chance
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:23 AM on August 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
This year she gave them all away because of fear of being associated as Muslim.
Yeah, sadly understandable. I have family that does not go to the mosque or wear desi clothes for fear of being targeted
She gave them to a group supporting Pakistan earthquake relief, in case the Trumpers were wondering where the good guys are.
posted by zutalors! at 10:24 AM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
Er... really? I'd say that "men who are aggressive towards women" is one of Trumps most key demographics.
"Hillary Clinton doesn't belong to Trump though, he has no right to be aggressive toward her. She's married after all." [fake, in that no one actually says this out loud]
just typing that makes me need to wash my hands
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:25 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
"Hillary Clinton doesn't belong to Trump though, he has no right to be aggressive toward her. She's married after all." [fake, in that no one actually says this out loud]
just typing that makes me need to wash my hands
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:25 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
If I were preparing The Orange One's briefing, I would definitely put something in there about Area 51, Roswell, and Majestic 12, just to fuck with him and his buddy Alex Jones.
Hypothesis: Trump is only running to get an invite to Bohemian Grove.
posted by OmieWise at 10:25 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Hypothesis: Trump is only running to get an invite to Bohemian Grove.
posted by OmieWise at 10:25 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Of course, Tulsi Gabbard likes fascists just fine when they are Hindu.
posted by bardophile at 10:27 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by bardophile at 10:27 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Can all us sane people just go live on an island somewhere? Not like some libertarian paradise, but where we pay our fair share of taxes and have good social services and don't discriminate against religions/races/groups?
posted by peacheater at 10:32 AM on August 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 10:32 AM on August 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
Hypothesis: Trump is only running to get an invite to Bohemian Grove.
lol I hope this happens, he probably thinks it's some wild Eyes Wide Shut shit, won't he be surprised when he finds himself venerating Moloch beside a very nude Henry Kissinger
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:32 AM on August 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
lol I hope this happens, he probably thinks it's some wild Eyes Wide Shut shit, won't he be surprised when he finds himself venerating Moloch beside a very nude Henry Kissinger
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:32 AM on August 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
The final chapter of Jon Ronson's Them: Adventures With Extremists, where Ronson and Alex Jones infiltrate Bohemian Grove (Jones by sneaking through the bushes, Ronson by walking through the front gates as though he belongs there) is pretty entertaining.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I never thought it possible but I have election fatigue thanks to these threads. I just can't keep up. It's astounding the amount of information.
Thanks to you all, though, in the past 30 days (basically since the start of the RNC) I have gone from sheer panic at the thought of a Trump presidency to ... uh ... only mild panic. Maybe a little bit of hope even. I have also gotten to the point of overload such that absurd thoughts pop into my head, like a photoshop of Arrested Development characters and Ukranian political participants with taglines like, "There's always money in the Mananafort" or something man, I dunno, I've burned a fuse somewhere along the way.
My point is: I hope things keep up at this pace. I hope that I get to tune in to the broadcast network of my choice on election day morning and hear, "The polls have just opened ... and NBC is officially calling it for Clinton, by something that redefines a landslide. See you tomorrow, folks." and then they drop a literal microphone and walk off.
In the meantime I'm going to be in a dark room with a towel over my head, unsubscribed from these threads, and recovering.
if my attempts at quitting smoking are any indication I'll see you here in about 45 minutes
posted by komara at 10:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [26 favorites]
Thanks to you all, though, in the past 30 days (basically since the start of the RNC) I have gone from sheer panic at the thought of a Trump presidency to ... uh ... only mild panic. Maybe a little bit of hope even. I have also gotten to the point of overload such that absurd thoughts pop into my head, like a photoshop of Arrested Development characters and Ukranian political participants with taglines like, "There's always money in the Mananafort" or something man, I dunno, I've burned a fuse somewhere along the way.
My point is: I hope things keep up at this pace. I hope that I get to tune in to the broadcast network of my choice on election day morning and hear, "The polls have just opened ... and NBC is officially calling it for Clinton, by something that redefines a landslide. See you tomorrow, folks." and then they drop a literal microphone and walk off.
In the meantime I'm going to be in a dark room with a towel over my head, unsubscribed from these threads, and recovering.
if my attempts at quitting smoking are any indication I'll see you here in about 45 minutes
posted by komara at 10:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [26 favorites]
Longtime Trump ally claims elections can be rigged because Scott Walker did it five times:
After citing a questionable “study” from Stanford, [Roger] Stone turns his op-ed toward Wisconsin elections. Specifically mentioning the DIEBOLD/PES voting machines, used in most states, and how easily many voting machines can be hacked.posted by palindromic at 10:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [22 favorites]
“There is irrefutable evidence that Scott Walker and the Reince Priebus machine rigged as many as five elections including the defeat of a Walker recall election,” Stone wrote, adding that a pattern that occurred in the Walker election also happened in the Trump/Cruz primary.
MetaFilter: venerating Moloch beside a very nude Henry Kissinger.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:44 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 10:44 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Aulani Kaaihue's Facebook images are something else. Some of them mistakenly seem to say she's running in the 1st district as a democrat (she's running in the 2nd as a republican). Trump's mediocre image memes are positively competent by comparison.
posted by R343L at 10:45 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by R343L at 10:45 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
WTF with the projection? Elections can be rigged because we've been doing it? That's what we're down to now?
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:45 AM on August 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:45 AM on August 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
this Vox article details at length how the media has apparently written off Donald Trump
these threads have been killing my browsers, so idk if this was linked elsewhere, sorry if it's a repeat. But I found that article to be pretty informative, especially the end where Ezra Klein basically admits that the media/press is terrified of what would happen were Trump to be elected.
posted by lonefrontranger at 10:45 AM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
these threads have been killing my browsers, so idk if this was linked elsewhere, sorry if it's a repeat. But I found that article to be pretty informative, especially the end where Ezra Klein basically admits that the media/press is terrified of what would happen were Trump to be elected.
posted by lonefrontranger at 10:45 AM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
Hillary: I'm asking you to register to vote, and to ask everyone you know to register to vote.
posted by cashman at 10:47 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 10:47 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
So what Roger Stone is saying that Trump won due to rigged machines?
posted by ardgedee at 10:47 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ardgedee at 10:47 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Can all us sane people just go live on an island somewhere? Not like some libertarian paradise, but where we pay our fair share of taxes and have good social services and don't discriminate against religions/races/groups?
Ah, it's funny because Gabbard and Aulani Kaaihue are both running to represent a chain of islands.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:48 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ah, it's funny because Gabbard and Aulani Kaaihue are both running to represent a chain of islands.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:48 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hillary talking again about restoring America's infrastructure, and creating a new, better power grid.
posted by cashman at 10:50 AM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by cashman at 10:50 AM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
Hillary: We can have a renaissance in manufacturing. Workers she's met said with the right partnership between business and government, we can have a renaissance in manufacturing.
posted by cashman at 10:54 AM on August 16, 2016
posted by cashman at 10:54 AM on August 16, 2016
Hillary: Abraham Lincoln talked about how it's important to give every American a fair shot. I want to be a president for dems, republicans, and independents, for the struggling, striving and the successful, for those who voted for me, and those who voted against me.
posted by cashman at 10:56 AM on August 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by cashman at 10:56 AM on August 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
That Roger Stone op-ed is amazing. Incidentally, the Geijsel/Barragan "paper" (which is only 4 pages long!) starts with this quote:
But this all just makes more pressing the need to redesign our electronic voting systems based on computer security and cryptographic best practices.
posted by dis_integration at 10:58 AM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
“You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.” Abraham LincolnWhich is, to put it mildly, a red flag. You're supposed to misattribute that quote to P.T. Barnum, silly.
But this all just makes more pressing the need to redesign our electronic voting systems based on computer security and cryptographic best practices.
posted by dis_integration at 10:58 AM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
To really drive home that Kaaihue is actually evil and not actually crazy, our Rep. Mark Takai recently died of pancreatic cancer. His battle was public knowledge. Kaaihue ran a billboard about how she was cancer free and... well, read it yourself.
She's an awful human being and deserves to lose by an enormous margin and then be forgotten entirely.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:59 AM on August 16, 2016 [26 favorites]
She's an awful human being and deserves to lose by an enormous margin and then be forgotten entirely.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:59 AM on August 16, 2016 [26 favorites]
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries sheTrump: "Which idiot said that?" [fake]
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
posted by Talez at 11:01 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Wow, that is a new level of evilness (and also seems incredibly stupid?)
posted by peacheater at 11:02 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by peacheater at 11:02 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
And over already..
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:02 AM on August 16, 2016
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:02 AM on August 16, 2016
and then be forgotten entirely.
Not in Hawaii, land of "hey, I went to high school with your cousin!"
posted by ctmf at 11:04 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Not in Hawaii, land of "hey, I went to high school with your cousin!"
posted by ctmf at 11:04 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
What Donald Trump’s favorite poem tells us about Donald Trump - "But what Trump is telling us with “The Snake” is that he is the snake in that story, and that he will never stop spreading his poison. Trump’s whole pitch is that he’s been an asshole his entire life, and that he’s willing to be the asshole on our behalf for a change. He’s proud of his bankruptcies, his tax-dodging, his dishonorable business practices. Many of his followers argue that he’s just the kind of monster we need to even the playing field with international competitors. But in his speeches, Trump himself keeps urging us to believe the evidence before our eyes: we know damn well he is a snake, so why would we take him in?"
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:04 AM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:04 AM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
And over already..
It was good! She is doing a fantastic job at being normal. Being positive, productive, forward-thinking, solid and steady.
posted by cashman at 11:05 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
It was good! She is doing a fantastic job at being normal. Being positive, productive, forward-thinking, solid and steady.
posted by cashman at 11:05 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
The above linked article from Ezra Klein makes journalists sound pretty disgusting in that it boils the opposition from journalists down to the facts that they won't lose access to republicans if they critique Trump and they're scared about what would happen to their own precious hides if he wins. So if he weren't going after the press they wouldn't give a damn about what he does to the rest of us.
Also this "He really is getting different, harsher treatment than any candidate in memory." is absolutely ahistorical rubbish when he's running against Hillary Clinton, who has had a vendetta waged against her by the press for most of her life.
posted by winna at 11:06 AM on August 16, 2016 [30 favorites]
Also this "He really is getting different, harsher treatment than any candidate in memory." is absolutely ahistorical rubbish when he's running against Hillary Clinton, who has had a vendetta waged against her by the press for most of her life.
posted by winna at 11:06 AM on August 16, 2016 [30 favorites]
Wow, that is a new level of evilness (and also seems incredibly stupid?)
An all-purpose sentence for describing this election if ever there was one.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:07 AM on August 16, 2016 [18 favorites]
An all-purpose sentence for describing this election if ever there was one.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:07 AM on August 16, 2016 [18 favorites]
Vox:
Then the rules need to change. The media needs to point out when people lie, not just say Candidate A said one thing and Candidate B said something different. I love it that they're doing it to Trump, but they should do it to Clinton, and to every candidate in every election.
Or maybe they're already doing this and the problem for Trump is that he mostly lies and she mostly doesn't.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:10 AM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
There are rules within traditional political reporting operations about how you cover presidential candidates. If Marco Rubio had won the Republican nomination, he might have lied in some speeches, but CNN’s chyrons would have stayed dull.
Then the rules need to change. The media needs to point out when people lie, not just say Candidate A said one thing and Candidate B said something different. I love it that they're doing it to Trump, but they should do it to Clinton, and to every candidate in every election.
Or maybe they're already doing this and the problem for Trump is that he mostly lies and she mostly doesn't.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:10 AM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
An imagined transcript of his election night speech — a last appeal to his supporters’ anger — composed of lines from Trump’s past speeches, interviews and, of course, his tweets: The speech Donald Trump could give if he loses the election but refuses to concede
posted by zakur at 11:15 AM on August 16, 2016
posted by zakur at 11:15 AM on August 16, 2016
he mostly lies and she mostly doesn't.
And even her lies are pretty... low energy. "None of my opponents promised to keep taxes on the middle class low" etc etc.
Let's go back to arguing about Social Security lockboxes and such. That was... well not fun exactly but at least not terrifying
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:16 AM on August 16, 2016
And even her lies are pretty... low energy. "None of my opponents promised to keep taxes on the middle class low" etc etc.
Let's go back to arguing about Social Security lockboxes and such. That was... well not fun exactly but at least not terrifying
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:16 AM on August 16, 2016
@MonmouthPoll: BREAKING: Florida likely voters 48 Clinton 39 Trump 6 Johnson 1 Stein
http://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/MonmouthPoll_FL_081616.asp
posted by Going To Maine at 11:18 AM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
http://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/MonmouthPoll_FL_081616.asp
posted by Going To Maine at 11:18 AM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
The Vox article points out my current great fear for the election: that Trump drops out, some truly awful but more normally awful Republican candidate takes his place, and the press treat him like a hero and puff him up to victory.
posted by tavella at 11:21 AM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by tavella at 11:21 AM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
It is somehow both apt and unsurprising that Trump's favorite poem is basically a re-hash of the parable of The Scorpion and the Frog.
posted by tocts at 11:22 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by tocts at 11:22 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
From the Vox article:
posted by Going To Maine at 11:22 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
After the piece published, I got a call from a very conservative Republican member of Congress. He wanted to talk about the article, his office said. I figured he’d be angry. Instead, he congratulated me for speaking out.
That member of Congress, by the way, has now endorsed Trump.And one wonders why people despise politicians and are willing to turn to a Trump…
posted by Going To Maine at 11:22 AM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
In other Florida political news, NPR reports that Rubio backs Trump, but stands by calling him a "con man." Always keep that integrity, Mario.
posted by bearwife at 11:24 AM on August 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by bearwife at 11:24 AM on August 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
Tim is being charming, in an avuncular way.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:25 AM on August 16, 2016
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:25 AM on August 16, 2016
Omg, the Kimmel mansplaining clip linked above is brilliant.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:26 AM on August 16, 2016
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:26 AM on August 16, 2016
Owen Ellickson (@onlxn) has been amazing.
RYAN: You understand you can't share this stuff--
TRUMP: Unless doing so would help me--
RYAN: --for any reason.
TRUMP: --or I'm bored. Yes.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 11:26 AM on August 16, 2016 [23 favorites]
RYAN: You understand you can't share this stuff--
TRUMP: Unless doing so would help me--
RYAN: --for any reason.
TRUMP: --or I'm bored. Yes.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 11:26 AM on August 16, 2016 [23 favorites]
Today, Trump appointed Gov. Brownback to his agricultural advisory committee. In Kansas, Brownback currently has a 16 percent approval rating, and Trump is sliding (albeit slowly) in Kansas polls.
This isn't a big deal and won't make much news, but it's interesting how the Trump campaign is failing in even the small details. No normal campaign would willingly associate themselves with a politician who is less popular than herpes.
posted by honestcoyote at 11:28 AM on August 16, 2016 [20 favorites]
This isn't a big deal and won't make much news, but it's interesting how the Trump campaign is failing in even the small details. No normal campaign would willingly associate themselves with a politician who is less popular than herpes.
posted by honestcoyote at 11:28 AM on August 16, 2016 [20 favorites]
Always keep that integrity, Mario.
His name is Marco - unless that's some kind of Marco Rubio mashup nick?
posted by zutalors! at 11:33 AM on August 16, 2016
His name is Marco - unless that's some kind of Marco Rubio mashup nick?
posted by zutalors! at 11:33 AM on August 16, 2016
Tim: Invest in manufacturing, R&D. Reward companies for keeping jobs here. Make college debt free. Expand trades. Child care, minimum wage. (Expounds on minimum wage, notes that it mostly affects women, doesn't get you out of poverty.) Higher taxes on higher income people and companies.
Tim: Trump doesn't have details. Riffs on "believe me." Cites Moody's. Clinton's plan would add millions of jobs, Trump's would lose millions.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:33 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Tim: Trump doesn't have details. Riffs on "believe me." Cites Moody's. Clinton's plan would add millions of jobs, Trump's would lose millions.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:33 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
If you haven't been following Heer Jeet on Twitter and read his occasional Samson/Trump references, he's written an article on the chances of Trump trying to take down the Republican Party with him.
"We got a glimpse of what the Samson Option would look like earlier in the campaign when Trump’s relationship with Republicans was fraying and he talked about withholding primary endorsements from Paul Ryan and John McCain. Of course, Trump and the RNC patched up their differences and he gave his endorsement anyway. But there’s nothing to stop Trump from repeating the exercise on a grand scale in the general election. If the Republican Party isn’t doing anything for him, why shouldn’t he tell his supporters not to vote GOP down-ballot? . . . The GOP’s betrayal would make it easier for him to say that the loss wasn’t his fault, instead caused by the very party that let him down and that he had to fight against. By falling out with the Republicans, Trump can lay the groundwork for a stabbed-in-the-back myth that will allow him to salvage his pride in defeat."
posted by chris24 at 11:34 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
"We got a glimpse of what the Samson Option would look like earlier in the campaign when Trump’s relationship with Republicans was fraying and he talked about withholding primary endorsements from Paul Ryan and John McCain. Of course, Trump and the RNC patched up their differences and he gave his endorsement anyway. But there’s nothing to stop Trump from repeating the exercise on a grand scale in the general election. If the Republican Party isn’t doing anything for him, why shouldn’t he tell his supporters not to vote GOP down-ballot? . . . The GOP’s betrayal would make it easier for him to say that the loss wasn’t his fault, instead caused by the very party that let him down and that he had to fight against. By falling out with the Republicans, Trump can lay the groundwork for a stabbed-in-the-back myth that will allow him to salvage his pride in defeat."
posted by chris24 at 11:34 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Owen Ellickson (@onlxn) has been amazing.
Agreed. I don't know anything about him. Is he a standup comedian or on tv or anything? He is totally nailing this thing.
posted by Cookiebastard at 11:36 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Agreed. I don't know anything about him. Is he a standup comedian or on tv or anything? He is totally nailing this thing.
posted by Cookiebastard at 11:36 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Rubio backs Trump, but stands by calling him a "con man."
I feel like basically the whole Republican party has forfeited the right to ever complain about "triangulation" again.
posted by tocts at 11:36 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
I feel like basically the whole Republican party has forfeited the right to ever complain about "triangulation" again.
posted by tocts at 11:36 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
From today's fundraising letter from the Clinton campaign:
Does he think he could win California or New York if he smears Hillary hard enough?
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:36 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Over the weekend, we learned that one of Donald Trump's super PACs is preparing to launch a nationwide series of attack ads targeting Hillary -- with most of their spending concentrated in the battleground states.And I immediately thought, "Battleground states like... Texas? Georgia?" What does Trump think his battlegrounds are?
Does he think he could win California or New York if he smears Hillary hard enough?
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:36 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
It has been 0 days since Donald Trump did something that would end the career of any other candidate.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:37 AM on August 16, 2016 [21 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 11:37 AM on August 16, 2016 [21 favorites]
Please tell me the 0 is static.
posted by stolyarova at 11:39 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by stolyarova at 11:39 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Does he think he could win California or New York if he smears Hillary hard enough?
i think he really thinks he can win New York.
posted by zutalors! at 11:42 AM on August 16, 2016
Please tell me the 0 is static.
Why would I ever need to change it?
posted by kirkaracha at 11:43 AM on August 16, 2016 [19 favorites]
Tim: Hillary and I were on the Armed Services Comitee. We're going to expand the GI Bill, VA. We can make the lives of military families easier. Mentions mental health care, suicides.
Tim: Trump says he'd be great for military. Called military a disaster. Unfit to be CIC. He made fun of McCain. Took after the Kahns. W ants to privatize the VA.
Tim: Even Nixon released taxes. Trump has bragged he uses every trick to avoid paying taxes. That's what supports the military. Trump stiffs them.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:45 AM on August 16, 2016 [27 favorites]
Tim: Trump says he'd be great for military. Called military a disaster. Unfit to be CIC. He made fun of McCain. Took after the Kahns. W ants to privatize the VA.
Tim: Even Nixon released taxes. Trump has bragged he uses every trick to avoid paying taxes. That's what supports the military. Trump stiffs them.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:45 AM on August 16, 2016 [27 favorites]
Tim is being charming, in an avuncular way.
Dad is just being Dad!
posted by Talez at 11:45 AM on August 16, 2016
Dad is just being Dad!
posted by Talez at 11:45 AM on August 16, 2016
And I immediately thought, "Battleground states like... Texas? Georgia?" What does Trump think his battlegrounds are?
This week he's been in New York, Connecticut, Wisconsin, Minnesota and New Hampshire. He's closest in New Hampshire, where he's averaging down 8.2.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:46 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
This week he's been in New York, Connecticut, Wisconsin, Minnesota and New Hampshire. He's closest in New Hampshire, where he's averaging down 8.2.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:46 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
What does Trump think his battlegrounds are?
Trump has created huge battleground states, beautiful battleground states. The best battleground states. Arizona, Utah...
posted by Cookiebastard at 11:46 AM on August 16, 2016 [24 favorites]
Trump has created huge battleground states, beautiful battleground states. The best battleground states. Arizona, Utah...
posted by Cookiebastard at 11:46 AM on August 16, 2016 [24 favorites]
this is the most inept campaign in the history of electoral politics
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 11:47 AM on August 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 11:47 AM on August 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
I like Kaine's verbal tic of repeating sentences. "We have to have the right attitude about it. We have to have the right attitude about it."
posted by kirkaracha at 11:47 AM on August 16, 2016
posted by kirkaracha at 11:47 AM on August 16, 2016
Trump has created huge battleground states, beautiful battleground states. The best battleground states. Arizona, Utah...
Who wants to fight in Iowa? There's nothing in Iowa! I'd rather fight in a nice place like Maine or Connecticut!
posted by Talez at 11:48 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Who wants to fight in Iowa? There's nothing in Iowa! I'd rather fight in a nice place like Maine or Connecticut!
posted by Talez at 11:48 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Hate to bring up this linguistic derail again, but I got a laugh out of this: Sean Hannity spectacularly misuses the word 'literally'
Hannity is having a really bad week. Even the rest of right wing media are turning on him for his blind support of Trump.
posted by zakur at 11:50 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Hannity is having a really bad week. Even the rest of right wing media are turning on him for his blind support of Trump.
posted by zakur at 11:50 AM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Tim: I like where we are, but it's a season of surprises. Talk to your neighbors. Sign up. Text Together to 47246. Your governor is putting up hurdles. Appealed to SCOTUS. Turn out. NC is key battleground state.
Exeunt.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:50 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Exeunt.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:50 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Trump has created huge battleground states, beautiful battleground states. The best battleground states. Arizona, Utah...
Who wants to fight in Iowa? There's nothing in Iowa! I'd rather fight in a nice place like Maine or Connecticut!
For a moment, I thought his battleground states were chosen because their namesake battleships were all sunk.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:50 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
Who wants to fight in Iowa? There's nothing in Iowa! I'd rather fight in a nice place like Maine or Connecticut!
For a moment, I thought his battleground states were chosen because their namesake battleships were all sunk.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:50 AM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
For some reason RCP is still listing Michigan as a battleground state even though Trump hasn't lead or tied in a single poll in the state since last September and the average is Clinton +6.6. Putting Michigan in at least the "lean" category would give her 272 in the lean or better column.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:53 AM on August 16, 2016
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:53 AM on August 16, 2016
Trump has created huge battleground states, beautiful battleground states. The best battleground states. Arizona, Utah...
This battleground state system is rigged! Why don't beautiful states like Georgia or Texas ever get to be battleground states? When I'm running for president that'll change!
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:58 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
This battleground state system is rigged! Why don't beautiful states like Georgia or Texas ever get to be battleground states? When I'm running for president that'll change!
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:58 AM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Giuliani: I Didn't Forget 9/11, I Was Using "Abbreviated Language":
posted by kirkaracha at 12:07 PM on August 16, 2016 [19 favorites]
"I didn't forget 9/11. I hardly would. I almost died in it," he said.According to a 2011 interview he was at a breakfast meeting at the Peninsula Hotel in midtown Manhattan when the first plane hit. He headed towards the World Trade Center and the second plane hit when he was on the way. Props for heading towards danger, but "I almost died" is a bit of a stretch.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:07 PM on August 16, 2016 [19 favorites]
For some reason RCP is still listing Michigan as a battleground state even though Trump hasn't lead or tied in a single poll in the state since last September and the average is Clinton +6.6.
Polling has sucked in Michigan for the last two cycles. Sanders beat Clinton out of nowhere. In 2014, both sides were pretty convinced that the Democrats were going to finish strong; the GOP picked up four seats in the State House and the U.S. House delegation stayed at 9-5.
posted by Etrigan at 12:10 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Polling has sucked in Michigan for the last two cycles. Sanders beat Clinton out of nowhere. In 2014, both sides were pretty convinced that the Democrats were going to finish strong; the GOP picked up four seats in the State House and the U.S. House delegation stayed at 9-5.
posted by Etrigan at 12:10 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
"I know they'll commit crimes because WE committed those crimes!" [real]
I think the endgame at this point is to get as many trump people as possible into federal prison so the other republicans can say they're being unfairly targeted by a brutal totalitarian regime.
posted by fomhar at 12:10 PM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
I think the endgame at this point is to get as many trump people as possible into federal prison so the other republicans can say they're being unfairly targeted by a brutal totalitarian regime.
posted by fomhar at 12:10 PM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
In 2014, both sides were pretty convinced that the Democrats were going to finish strong; the GOP picked up four seats in the State House and the U.S. House delegation stayed at 9-5.
It's not the polling that sucks. It's a testament to the level of gerrymandering.
posted by Talez at 12:13 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's not the polling that sucks. It's a testament to the level of gerrymandering.
posted by Talez at 12:13 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
I had a depressing thought this morning thinking about how the press unquestioningly repeats anti-Clinton propaganda: 20 years from now some naive NPR reporter is going to be asking Zoe Quinn or Anita Sarkeesian "So, why do you think you're so widely disliked?" And they won't believe the obvious answer.
Different people in different roles, by the same sort of misogynistic campaign.
posted by happyroach at 12:14 PM on August 16, 2016 [29 favorites]
Different people in different roles, by the same sort of misogynistic campaign.
posted by happyroach at 12:14 PM on August 16, 2016 [29 favorites]
I think my favorite Giuliani fact is that he got married at Disneyworld. It's like Dracula, where do you want to say your eternal vows -- why Disneyworld, of course.
I hope he gets reincarnated as a ferret would that be the best or what
posted by angrycat at 12:14 PM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
I hope he gets reincarnated as a ferret would that be the best or what
posted by angrycat at 12:14 PM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
Rudy Giuliani did not almost die on 9/11.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:14 PM on August 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:14 PM on August 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
One last thing about evil Hawaii Republican candidate Kaaihue . She's been using "Make Hawaii Great Again" as one of her slogans, which is telling.
I mean, she's also been using "white tiger" (herself) vs "moon horse" (Gabbard) and "Hawaii's Holy War" so take her slogans with a grain of salt, but still.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:15 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I mean, she's also been using "white tiger" (herself) vs "moon horse" (Gabbard) and "Hawaii's Holy War" so take her slogans with a grain of salt, but still.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:15 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's not the polling that sucks. It's a testament to the level of gerrymandering.
These were district-specific polls, done by local people who are typically pretty good at it. Things are just... goofy in Michigan right now.
posted by Etrigan at 12:15 PM on August 16, 2016
These were district-specific polls, done by local people who are typically pretty good at it. Things are just... goofy in Michigan right now.
posted by Etrigan at 12:15 PM on August 16, 2016
This week he's been in New York, Connecticut, Wisconsin, Minnesota and New Hampshire.
Is he really just going to the states that are short hops from his houses or does he really prefer the crowds he gets in the most white states? (Exception for NY.)
posted by puddledork at 12:18 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Is he really just going to the states that are short hops from his houses or does he really prefer the crowds he gets in the most white states? (Exception for NY.)
posted by puddledork at 12:18 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh, one other thing. I use "evil" specifically for Kaaihue. There are some great Republicans in Hawaii (though fewer and fewer it seems) that have proven through their votes and actions to be interested in the public good over anything else. There are some Democrats that have consistently voted against social justice (particular in terms of marriage equality, but not limited to that) or done shitty things to the homeless. To conclude, Hawaii is kinda kapakai sometimes.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:19 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:19 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
He'll be in Michigan on Friday, at an ice rink that doesn't seem to be advertising that fact at all.
posted by Etrigan at 12:21 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 12:21 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Tim: I like where we are, but it's a season of surprises. Talk to your neighbors. Sign up. Text Together to 47246. Your governor is putting up hurdles. Appealed to SCOTUS. Turn out. NC is key battleground state.
NC here. Going tonight to register people to vote.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:21 PM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
NC here. Going tonight to register people to vote.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:21 PM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Trump in "sleeps in a bed he doesn't own" shocker! He spent Monday night at the Charmant Hotel in La Crosse, WI, probably because he had a fundraiser in Evansville, IN that evening and another one booked this lunchtime.
Other schedule updates: after Wisconsin, no rallies listed until Michigan on Friday, but fundraisers in Jackson, MS, Lake Tahoe, NV and Tulare, CA over the next couple of weeks before the end of August.
posted by holgate at 12:22 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Other schedule updates: after Wisconsin, no rallies listed until Michigan on Friday, but fundraisers in Jackson, MS, Lake Tahoe, NV and Tulare, CA over the next couple of weeks before the end of August.
posted by holgate at 12:22 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
>It's not the polling that sucks. It's a testament to the level of gerrymandering.
These were district-specific polls, done by local people who are typically pretty good at it. Things are just... goofy in Michigan right now.
Yeah, goofy is one word for it when the popular vote was 47% Republican and 49% Democratic, yet 64% of the House delegation is Republican and 36% Democratic.
The Michigan GOP is very, very good at what they do. No wacky stuff, nothing over the top that might get national attention (except for uh that little issue in Flint), just quiet, competent fuckery.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:23 PM on August 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
These were district-specific polls, done by local people who are typically pretty good at it. Things are just... goofy in Michigan right now.
Yeah, goofy is one word for it when the popular vote was 47% Republican and 49% Democratic, yet 64% of the House delegation is Republican and 36% Democratic.
The Michigan GOP is very, very good at what they do. No wacky stuff, nothing over the top that might get national attention (except for uh that little issue in Flint), just quiet, competent fuckery.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:23 PM on August 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
Metafilter: quiet, competent fuckery.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:24 PM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:24 PM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
Trump in "sleeps in a bed he doesn't own" shocker!
Sure they didn't just manage to transport a shovelfull of his native soil there?
posted by happyroach at 12:26 PM on August 16, 2016 [51 favorites]
Sure they didn't just manage to transport a shovelfull of his native soil there?
posted by happyroach at 12:26 PM on August 16, 2016 [51 favorites]
He's having a fundraiser in Tulare, CA? That's...not where I would think to go to raise money for anything.
posted by zachlipton at 12:26 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:26 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
just quiet, competent fuckery
this is somehow so gross
posted by zutalors! at 12:26 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
this is somehow so gross
posted by zutalors! at 12:26 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Trump in "sleeps in a bed he doesn't own" shocker! He spent Monday night at the Charmant Hotel in La Crosse, WI,
One wonders if he had his favorite blankie helicoptered in so that he could bear it.
posted by aught at 12:26 PM on August 16, 2016
One wonders if he had his favorite blankie helicoptered in so that he could bear it.
posted by aught at 12:26 PM on August 16, 2016
One wonders if he had his favorite blankie helicoptered in so that he could bear it.
I figured teddy bear.
posted by mordax at 12:28 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I figured teddy bear.
posted by mordax at 12:28 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Giuliani claiming he "almost died" on 9/11 edges very close to the "stolen valor" thing that right wingers don't care much for.
posted by ctmf at 12:30 PM on August 16, 2016 [32 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 12:30 PM on August 16, 2016 [32 favorites]
The NRA has completely lost it. I am going to have to look into finding a way to cancel the lifetime membership my dad bought for me when I was small. Wayne LaPierre is now calling HRC's gun control policies "evil."
posted by bearwife at 12:31 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by bearwife at 12:31 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Rudy Giuliani did not almost die on 9/11.
Maybe he had a stroke or something when he realized he could make the whole rest of his career out of exploiting this tragedy.
posted by indubitable at 12:32 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maybe he had a stroke or something when he realized he could make the whole rest of his career out of exploiting this tragedy.
posted by indubitable at 12:32 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Rudy Giuliani did not almost die on 9/11.
If he were a normal human with anything resembling a conscience he might have died of shame.
posted by aught at 12:35 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
If he were a normal human with anything resembling a conscience he might have died of shame.
posted by aught at 12:35 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah, goofy is one word for it when the popular vote was 47% Republican and 49% Democratic, yet 64% of the House delegation is Republican and 36% Democratic.
Yes, I know what gerrymandering is and how it affected Michigan's overall voting vs. specific results. But again, this was district-level polling (that is, not affected by gerrymandering) conducted by various different pollsters on both sides over the entire election cycle, and everyone thought it was going to be a lot closer in specific districts and more heavily Democratic in overall numbers.
posted by Etrigan at 12:35 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yes, I know what gerrymandering is and how it affected Michigan's overall voting vs. specific results. But again, this was district-level polling (that is, not affected by gerrymandering) conducted by various different pollsters on both sides over the entire election cycle, and everyone thought it was going to be a lot closer in specific districts and more heavily Democratic in overall numbers.
posted by Etrigan at 12:35 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
GOP Senator Lindsey Graham: I Think Trump Is Going to Lose:
“Mitt Romney got 27% of the Hispanic vote. By 2050, a majority of the country will be African-American, Hispanic, Asian, and others, and we’re losing demographically. We’ve gone from 44% with Bush to 27% with Romney, and I don’t think Trump is going to get 20%.”posted by kirkaracha at 12:35 PM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
Graham said Trump’s candidacy has put the Republican Party on a course for a “demographic meltdown.”
“The problems we’ve had with young women, he has made exponentially worse,” continued Graham. “So if we do lose, and the reason I think we’re going to lose, is because the demographic meltdown that came from harsh rhetoric and policies by Mr. Trump, making every problem we had in 2012 worse. It’s not about me not voting for Donald Trump, I’m not voting for Hillary Clinton, it is about America is changing and the party is being left behind.”
The NRA has completely lost it. I am going to have to look into finding a way to cancel the lifetime membership my dad bought for me when I was small.
They banked, hard, on being forgiven for Trump. Instead, what's happening is a lot of people are quietly either pulling back their membership or their donations. Now they're getting desperate that he will lose, lose hard, and they will lose their gamble. Meanwhile Hillary is being really smart - REALLY fucking smart - and not talking about gun control very much, thus creating a gap between what the NRA is saying about her and what she is saying about herself. If she wants to kill the NRA as a political force, the best thing she could do is get elected and then not touch a gun ban for the next four years, focusing on her healthcare and education priorities. Their power would be completely broken by 2020.
posted by corb at 12:38 PM on August 16, 2016 [33 favorites]
They banked, hard, on being forgiven for Trump. Instead, what's happening is a lot of people are quietly either pulling back their membership or their donations. Now they're getting desperate that he will lose, lose hard, and they will lose their gamble. Meanwhile Hillary is being really smart - REALLY fucking smart - and not talking about gun control very much, thus creating a gap between what the NRA is saying about her and what she is saying about herself. If she wants to kill the NRA as a political force, the best thing she could do is get elected and then not touch a gun ban for the next four years, focusing on her healthcare and education priorities. Their power would be completely broken by 2020.
posted by corb at 12:38 PM on August 16, 2016 [33 favorites]
The NRA has completely lost it.
They've been a de facto white supremacist (and quasi-MRA) organization for years now.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [35 favorites]
They've been a de facto white supremacist (and quasi-MRA) organization for years now.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [35 favorites]
> If she wants to kill the NRA as a political force, the best thing she could do is get elected and then not touch a gun ban for the next four years, focusing on her healthcare and education priorities. Their power would be completely broken by 2020.
If she tried this, would the NRA not come roaring back as soon as she made any kind of gun control proposal in the 2020 election? It's surely not an issue she'd want to abandon forever.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 12:41 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
If she tried this, would the NRA not come roaring back as soon as she made any kind of gun control proposal in the 2020 election? It's surely not an issue she'd want to abandon forever.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 12:41 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
If she wants to kill the NRA as a political force, the best thing she could do is get elected and then not touch a gun ban for the next four years, focusing on her healthcare and education priorities. Their power would be completely broken by 2020.
Because that worked so well for Obama.
It doesn't matter what the Democrats do or don't do on guns. It is an article of faith for a shockingly high percentage of the US that the Democrats want to take your guns and give them to black people to shoot you with. If that belief was subject to being affected by reality, it would not exist.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:43 PM on August 16, 2016 [73 favorites]
Because that worked so well for Obama.
It doesn't matter what the Democrats do or don't do on guns. It is an article of faith for a shockingly high percentage of the US that the Democrats want to take your guns and give them to black people to shoot you with. If that belief was subject to being affected by reality, it would not exist.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:43 PM on August 16, 2016 [73 favorites]
this is the most inept campaign in the history of electoral politics
I googled "most inept campaign" thinking that maybe somebody had done a historical rundown of the top most inept campaigns, but most of the results are people complaining that McCain or Romney ran the most inept campaign in history. Oh man. They had no idea.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:44 PM on August 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
I googled "most inept campaign" thinking that maybe somebody had done a historical rundown of the top most inept campaigns, but most of the results are people complaining that McCain or Romney ran the most inept campaign in history. Oh man. They had no idea.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:44 PM on August 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
Also, Trump is allegedly receiving his first classified briefing tomorrow, and as always, @darth is on it.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:57 AM
Following that link gets you @MLevineReports Sources: @realDonaldTrump getting first classified briefing tomorrow at FBI office in NYC. He's bringing @ChrisChristie & @GenFlynn with him
So Chris Christie and General Flynn are to be his close advisers. I guess it is good he is not taking Paul Manafort. Although, thanks to Biblio I see the WaPo has linked Flynn to Putin as well.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:57 AM
Following that link gets you @MLevineReports Sources: @realDonaldTrump getting first classified briefing tomorrow at FBI office in NYC. He's bringing @ChrisChristie & @GenFlynn with him
So Chris Christie and General Flynn are to be his close advisers. I guess it is good he is not taking Paul Manafort. Although, thanks to Biblio I see the WaPo has linked Flynn to Putin as well.
Like Trump, Flynn has advocated forging closer ties with Russia. In interviews with The Washington Post, Flynn acknowledged being paid to give a speech and attend a lavish anniversary party for the Kremlin-controlled RT television network in Moscow last year, where he was seated next to Russian President Vladimir Putin.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:45 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
That would rely on there being no mass shootings between inauguration and 2020, too. the cycle of dead innocents -> Democrats says something about how people getting shot is bad -> DEMOCRATS WANT TO TAKE YOUR GUNS! GIVE US MONEY! is deeply ingrained by now.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:45 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:45 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
>flaut flaut flaut not flaunt flaut
>"flout," with an o
I have found my people.
posted by hilaryjade at 12:48 PM on August 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
>"flout," with an o
I have found my people.
posted by hilaryjade at 12:48 PM on August 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
Just followed through and asked the NRA to confirm cancellation of my lifetime membership. Calling sensible gun control "evil" and doubling down on support of Trump has torn it for me, and that's what I told them.
posted by bearwife at 12:49 PM on August 16, 2016 [86 favorites]
posted by bearwife at 12:49 PM on August 16, 2016 [86 favorites]
The NRA might as well come out and say "if we can't shoot that bitch that made us feel like less of a man why even have the second amendment?"
posted by Talez at 12:51 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Talez at 12:51 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Yes, I know what gerrymandering is and how it affected Michigan's overall voting vs. specific results. But again, this was district-level polling (that is, not affected by gerrymandering) conducted by various different pollsters on both sides over the entire election cycle, and everyone thought it was going to be a lot closer in specific districts and more heavily Democratic in overall numbers.
Sorry, that comment was meant to be more of a "yes, and..." than a callout.
It is kind of a mystery to me why Michigan is still light blue as opposed to solid. I don't get the feeling that the Democratic Party is particularly inept, but I guess a lot of it is to do with just a higher than normal level of competence from the GOP.
Part of me is tempted to point at the Dutch Calvinist blocs in Western Michigan (and northwest Iowa for that matter) who are politically engaged, old-school establishment religious people and really really good at organizing shit. Basically Mormons with a brogue.
But that's probably a personal bias since I grew up in that world.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:52 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Sorry, that comment was meant to be more of a "yes, and..." than a callout.
It is kind of a mystery to me why Michigan is still light blue as opposed to solid. I don't get the feeling that the Democratic Party is particularly inept, but I guess a lot of it is to do with just a higher than normal level of competence from the GOP.
Part of me is tempted to point at the Dutch Calvinist blocs in Western Michigan (and northwest Iowa for that matter) who are politically engaged, old-school establishment religious people and really really good at organizing shit. Basically Mormons with a brogue.
But that's probably a personal bias since I grew up in that world.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:52 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
It was not clear when Mr. Ailes began helping the campaign.
I'd say since 1996.
posted by mach at 12:54 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'd say since 1996.
posted by mach at 12:54 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
I think there's a lot of room to go after the NRA as an organization as differentiated from guns in general. I don't think Hillary could credibly do it, though, given the already established myth of her wanting to take away everyone's guns.
posted by ctmf at 12:54 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 12:54 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Hillary Clinton got a big boost from the convention. What happens next?
The Guardian analyzed RealClearPolitics polling averages from three previous election cycles to look at what could affect Clinton’s lead. How the candidates fare in the polls before election day may yet defy all expectation; this has been a tumultuous election season to say the least. But if history is any guide, Clinton’s current lead hinges on her performance in upcoming debates, the ability to avoid (any more) scandals, and bigger-picture issues like the economy and national security, which are beyond either candidate’s direct control.posted by kirkaracha at 12:55 PM on August 16, 2016
I have found my people.
peOple.
Ugh, Orioles fans are everywhere.
posted by phearlez at 12:59 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
peOple.
Ugh, Orioles fans are everywhere.
posted by phearlez at 12:59 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I have found my people.
peOple.
Thanks Obama.
posted by bardophile at 12:59 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
peOple.
Thanks Obama.
posted by bardophile at 12:59 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
oh man I got my first pollster push poll and I have no regret about pretending to actually be a resident of PA for the duration of talking to those assholes. They did a lot of "Would you call yourself a Republican?" "would you vote for REPUBLICAN Donald Trump or DEMOCRAT Hillary Clinton?"
I am like the most susceptible person ever to tribal loyalties and you still can't get me, fuckers.
posted by corb at 1:00 PM on August 16, 2016 [59 favorites]
I am like the most susceptible person ever to tribal loyalties and you still can't get me, fuckers.
posted by corb at 1:00 PM on August 16, 2016 [59 favorites]
Trump is allegedly receiving his first classified briefing tomorrow...
Oh, goodie. I can't wait to see how he spins that. No matter what he's told, I suspect his first talk before a crowd goes like this..."I was at a classified briefing and, let me tell you, things are worse than they're telling you! Much, much worse!"
posted by Thorzdad at 1:00 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Oh, goodie. I can't wait to see how he spins that. No matter what he's told, I suspect his first talk before a crowd goes like this..."I was at a classified briefing and, let me tell you, things are worse than they're telling you! Much, much worse!"
posted by Thorzdad at 1:00 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Today in Things That Would Be Prosecuted If An Ordinary Citizen Said It:
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:05 PM on August 16, 2016 [31 favorites]
"New Hampshire state Rep. Al Baldasaro, a Republican who co-chairs Trump's national veterans' coalition, stressed that he was not saying someone should assassinate Clinton.OH. Not assassination, just a firing squad. Well then.
"'The liberal media took what I said and went against the law and the Constitution and ran with it, and they said that I wanted her assassinated, which I never did,' Baldasaro told The Republican/MassLive.com. 'I said I spoke as a veteran, and she should be shot in a firing squad for treason.'
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:05 PM on August 16, 2016 [31 favorites]
Someone asked about podcasts. I just came across Radio Free GOP, which is a sane GOP operative (Weld, Jeb!) holding forth and interviewing compatriots.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:06 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:06 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Flynn acknowledged being paid to give a speech and attend a lavish anniversary party for the Kremlin-controlled RT television network in Moscow last year, where he was seated next to Russian President Vladimir Putin."And Jill Stein (who, in her defense, believed she was on an Intourist trip).
posted by octobersurprise at 1:06 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
It is kind of a mystery to me why Michigan is still light blue as opposed to solid. I don't get the feeling that the Democratic Party is particularly inept, but I guess a lot of it is to do with just a higher than normal level of competence from the GOP.
The Michigan Democratic Party got too used to union members voting in line. Then the economic meltdown killed a lot of those union jobs, and legit straight-up racism reared its head (my district elected a white Tea Partier over an Indian Democrat and a white Democrat over that same white Tea Partier for the same office on the same day).
A former state Democratic party wonk I know has spent the whole summer pointing out various dumbass moves by the party and its people in local races. Just stupid stuff, like cut-and-pasting generic Democratic platform points into websites, and not vetting candidates well.
The GOP isn't a whole lot better. They've pretty much just been riding the Tea Party wave and thanking God that the statewide races are off-cycle.
posted by Etrigan at 1:06 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
The Michigan Democratic Party got too used to union members voting in line. Then the economic meltdown killed a lot of those union jobs, and legit straight-up racism reared its head (my district elected a white Tea Partier over an Indian Democrat and a white Democrat over that same white Tea Partier for the same office on the same day).
A former state Democratic party wonk I know has spent the whole summer pointing out various dumbass moves by the party and its people in local races. Just stupid stuff, like cut-and-pasting generic Democratic platform points into websites, and not vetting candidates well.
The GOP isn't a whole lot better. They've pretty much just been riding the Tea Party wave and thanking God that the statewide races are off-cycle.
posted by Etrigan at 1:06 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
As far as I know there is no indication that Chris Christie has shady connections to Russia. >
posted by Artw at 1:06 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:06 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
oh man I got my first pollster push poll and I have no regret about pretending to actually be a resident of PA for the duration of talking to those assholes.
I am an actual resident of PA and got one a couple weeks ago (I'm sure mainly on behalf of Pat Toomey) and it was hilarious. By the end of it I was answering questions like "Would you vote for an evil, soulless vampire who eats babies, or noted soul-having non-baby-eater Pat Toomey?" I was laughing the whole time, and I kept her on the phone with me as long as possible (not like it was her fault, she was clearly just getting paid to read some dumb shit off a computer) because I figured the longer she's on the phone with me, the fewer people she's going to be able to call this shift.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:08 PM on August 16, 2016 [18 favorites]
I am an actual resident of PA and got one a couple weeks ago (I'm sure mainly on behalf of Pat Toomey) and it was hilarious. By the end of it I was answering questions like "Would you vote for an evil, soulless vampire who eats babies, or noted soul-having non-baby-eater Pat Toomey?" I was laughing the whole time, and I kept her on the phone with me as long as possible (not like it was her fault, she was clearly just getting paid to read some dumb shit off a computer) because I figured the longer she's on the phone with me, the fewer people she's going to be able to call this shift.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:08 PM on August 16, 2016 [18 favorites]
Trump doesn't have the discipline or attention span to sit through a security briefing.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:10 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:10 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
The Michigan Democratic Party got too used to union members voting in line. Then the economic meltdown killed a lot of those union jobs
Mmm good point. Right-to-work didn't help either. I continue to be gobsmacked that that actually went through. I still get guilt pangs when I remember that I own a Mazda now, and I haven't even lived in Michigan in like 12 years.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:11 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Mmm good point. Right-to-work didn't help either. I continue to be gobsmacked that that actually went through. I still get guilt pangs when I remember that I own a Mazda now, and I haven't even lived in Michigan in like 12 years.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:11 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yes, I know what gerrymandering is and how it affected Michigan's overall voting vs. specific results. But again, this was district-level polling (that is, not affected by gerrymandering) conducted by various different pollsters on both sides over the entire election cycle, and everyone thought it was going to be a lot closer in specific districts and more heavily Democratic in overall numbers.
District level polling is notoriously inaccurate. Usually, because of cost, it is just calculated as a side effect of doing a state-wide poll. For example a typical poll of 1200 state-wide will provide a margin of error of 3%, but if you use those same 1200 calls spread out as 100 in each district, the margin of error is 10% at the district level. Rarely can public polling organizations afford to do the 1200 samples per district required for dependable polls except for a few high-profile races.
posted by JackFlash at 1:18 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
District level polling is notoriously inaccurate. Usually, because of cost, it is just calculated as a side effect of doing a state-wide poll. For example a typical poll of 1200 state-wide will provide a margin of error of 3%, but if you use those same 1200 calls spread out as 100 in each district, the margin of error is 10% at the district level. Rarely can public polling organizations afford to do the 1200 samples per district required for dependable polls except for a few high-profile races.
posted by JackFlash at 1:18 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
> If he were a normal human with anything resembling a conscience he might have died of shamed of for
Let me be clear: I am no Guilaini fan. But on September 11th, when I lived in Queens and could see the cloud of the WTC from my bedroom window, there were hours when it seemed like nobody knew what was going on. When Guilaini showed up (I forget if it was on TV or radio) I felt greatly relieved that finally someone was here to take charge and tell me what was happening. He was reassuring and calm.
While he's done lousy things since then, as far as I know he doesn't have anything to be ashamed of for that day.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:25 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
Let me be clear: I am no Guilaini fan. But on September 11th, when I lived in Queens and could see the cloud of the WTC from my bedroom window, there were hours when it seemed like nobody knew what was going on. When Guilaini showed up (I forget if it was on TV or radio) I felt greatly relieved that finally someone was here to take charge and tell me what was happening. He was reassuring and calm.
While he's done lousy things since then, as far as I know he doesn't have anything to be ashamed of for that day.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:25 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
Assuming there is even a debate, we can be sure Trump will have all sorts of nasty personal attacks prepared, needing only the barest hint of relatedness in order to bring them up. In order for it to be good debate preparation for Clinton, whomever is standing in for Trump needs to be able to make it personal, so as to avoid a repeat of an expected question with an unexpectedly personal wording to Dukakis in '88 which cost him the election.
One of the biggest reasons I think Trump is either going to bomb the debates or not show up is that he cannot be disciplined enough to appear with decorum. I don't think he can force out of his mouth the words "Secretary Clinton" and will instead call her "Crooked Hillary" or at best just "Hillary." I think Clinton will continue to use "Mr. Trump" and it will be Clinton's 2000 senate election all over again where he just seems like a rude sexist boor compared to a cool and collected woman.
Test this out now by trying to imaging Trump saying "Secretary Clinton." Doesn't work, does it?
posted by Lord Chancellor at 1:28 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
One of the biggest reasons I think Trump is either going to bomb the debates or not show up is that he cannot be disciplined enough to appear with decorum. I don't think he can force out of his mouth the words "Secretary Clinton" and will instead call her "Crooked Hillary" or at best just "Hillary." I think Clinton will continue to use "Mr. Trump" and it will be Clinton's 2000 senate election all over again where he just seems like a rude sexist boor compared to a cool and collected woman.
Test this out now by trying to imaging Trump saying "Secretary Clinton." Doesn't work, does it?
posted by Lord Chancellor at 1:28 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
While he's done lousy things since then, as far as I know he doesn't have anything to be ashamed of for that day.
That's as may be. But no matter how noble the things he did, none of them give him any right to claim that he "almost died".
There is a very, very good chance that i might have been in Tower 2 that day. At that time, I worked with a temp agency that had a lot of clients in the Twin Towers; I left my apartment for a while on the 10th, and got back to find a message that they had a possible assignment starting for me the next day if I could call them back ASAP. I called them back, but it was already 4 pm and they'd given it to someone else. They didn't say where it was, but - as I said - a lot of their clients were in Tower 2.
I thought about that a lot as I heard the planes hit, watched the towers fall, and saw the smoke. I've thought of that every year in the past fifteen.
I can say I almost died that day. That fucker can't.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:30 PM on August 16, 2016 [39 favorites]
That's as may be. But no matter how noble the things he did, none of them give him any right to claim that he "almost died".
There is a very, very good chance that i might have been in Tower 2 that day. At that time, I worked with a temp agency that had a lot of clients in the Twin Towers; I left my apartment for a while on the 10th, and got back to find a message that they had a possible assignment starting for me the next day if I could call them back ASAP. I called them back, but it was already 4 pm and they'd given it to someone else. They didn't say where it was, but - as I said - a lot of their clients were in Tower 2.
I thought about that a lot as I heard the planes hit, watched the towers fall, and saw the smoke. I've thought of that every year in the past fifteen.
I can say I almost died that day. That fucker can't.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:30 PM on August 16, 2016 [39 favorites]
I agree that Giuliani behaved publicly in an exemplary way as mayor when 911 happened. (I think zarq is right that, less publicly, there seems clearly to be blood on his hands from failing to approve better radios that might have saved 100 firefighters who died at WTC that day.) I do not agree with his claim that he "almost died" himself that day. And it is an outlandish claim -- he was nowhere near the towers when either plane hit.
posted by bearwife at 1:31 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by bearwife at 1:31 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I was in World Financial Center across the street when the planes hit, and I had to walk through a dust cloud in Battery Park after the south tower fell. I came closer to dying than that fucker did, and I really didn't come all that close...
posted by AJaffe at 1:34 PM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by AJaffe at 1:34 PM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
I think one of the things that will help win the debate is that Trump is extremely susceptible to being baited. I think a good strategy would be to focus on angering him as much as possible, preferably in an way that isn't directly insulting (like repeatedly calling him on lies or inaccuracies.) Try to get him to explode and lose decorum.
posted by Mitrovarr at 1:35 PM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Mitrovarr at 1:35 PM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
I have been worrying about this all election, and find it odd that nobody else has been mentioning it: Is Donald Trump Rigging the Election?: A Theory with Circumstantial Evidence
I mean, we never did actually get secure voting machines, despite talking for like 15 years about how we really ought to, right? Please tell me that I shouldn't be worrying about this.
Trump's Razor argues against a lot of this, but Trump's Razor isn't an actual physical law of the universe.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 1:35 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I mean, we never did actually get secure voting machines, despite talking for like 15 years about how we really ought to, right? Please tell me that I shouldn't be worrying about this.
Trump's Razor argues against a lot of this, but Trump's Razor isn't an actual physical law of the universe.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 1:35 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
also there's the whole "it's always projection" thing
posted by Spathe Cadet at 1:36 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Spathe Cadet at 1:36 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
While he's done lousy things since then, as far as I know he doesn't have anything to be ashamed of for that day.
The stuff that zarq posted upthread makes it clear that he does. And having a posh dinner at a hotel several dozen blocks away doesn't qualify as "almost died that day" by any stretch of the imagination.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:38 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
The stuff that zarq posted upthread makes it clear that he does. And having a posh dinner at a hotel several dozen blocks away doesn't qualify as "almost died that day" by any stretch of the imagination.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:38 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
> Let me be clear: I am no Guilaini fan.
In my head, I heard this in Obama's voice.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 1:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [21 favorites]
In my head, I heard this in Obama's voice.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 1:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [21 favorites]
I mean, we never did actually get secure voting machines, despite talking for like 15 years about how we really ought to, right? Please tell me that I shouldn't be worrying about this.
Cyberattack concerns real about U.S. presidential election, Stanford scholar says.
Cyberattack concerns real about U.S. presidential election, Stanford scholar says.
How worried are you about possible cyberattacks that could influence the outcome of the November elections in the U.S.?posted by cashman at 1:46 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
"There are two kinds of things to worry about. One is an actual cyberattack that, for example, alters vote counts in a way that tilts the election away from the will of the voters. That kind of attack is hard to pull off, and I’m not very worried about that – though I worry about it some.
A second worry – much more serious in my opinion – is the possibility that an election loser might challenge the outcome of the election, alleging that the results were altered by a cyberattack, especially if the election were close. How would anyone ever prove that ballots, electronically cast with no permanent and auditable record, were accurately counted?"
If I implied that I believe he almost died that day, I apologize. Of course he didn't. I was pondering his leadership on 9/11, not what he's done since then.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:47 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:47 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Is Donald Trump Rigging the Election?: A Theory with Circumstantial EvidenceI was promised circumstantial evidence! I did not get even circumstantial evidence!
"Trump acts like a man who knows he's gonna win. So either he does know it because he's making it happen or he's so epically delusional, a mad emperor awaiting the restoration of his fake empire, that we're just watching the pathetic spectacle of someone living in a hallucination.
I mean, I guess it isn't impossible. But like all good conspiracy theories it seems to rely on finding the most complicated answers possible to pre-determined questions.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:50 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm going to be working election eve. Glad I'll be able to spend it with the likes of you all here in MeFi.
And the thread that night? It's gonna be huge. The most huge yet.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 1:52 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
And the thread that night? It's gonna be huge. The most huge yet.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 1:52 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
I know he doesn't have anything to be ashamed of for that day.
Fuck him with the almost died shit since. I was in the middle of Church Street in front of One Liberty Plaza right under WTC2 when it was hit and had to dodge debris and saw others hit by it. 50 minutes later we had to flee our apartment two blocks away into the cloud when the WTC2 collapsed. My day was way worse than his and mine was exponentially better than way too many others who were not so lucky.
posted by chris24 at 1:53 PM on August 16, 2016 [38 favorites]
Fuck him with the almost died shit since. I was in the middle of Church Street in front of One Liberty Plaza right under WTC2 when it was hit and had to dodge debris and saw others hit by it. 50 minutes later we had to flee our apartment two blocks away into the cloud when the WTC2 collapsed. My day was way worse than his and mine was exponentially better than way too many others who were not so lucky.
posted by chris24 at 1:53 PM on August 16, 2016 [38 favorites]
In the worst kind of crisis, you can be a hero just by being there and doing your job and not losing your shit. That does take personal courage, but it is also, in some ways, the very least you can do.
Doing the right thing on the boring days when all eyes are not on you and you are not going to be celebrated for every competent-at-least decision you make is what really shows your character and leadership
tl;dr fuck Rudy Guiliani
And the thread that night? It's gonna be huge. The most huge yet.
I will be profoundly disappointed in all of you if every line in Hamilton isn't quoted at least 2-3 times in the thread before the first results start rolling in
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:55 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Doing the right thing on the boring days when all eyes are not on you and you are not going to be celebrated for every competent-at-least decision you make is what really shows your character and leadership
tl;dr fuck Rudy Guiliani
And the thread that night? It's gonna be huge. The most huge yet.
I will be profoundly disappointed in all of you if every line in Hamilton isn't quoted at least 2-3 times in the thread before the first results start rolling in
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:55 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's more like a conspiracy guess with hypothetical evidence than a theory with circumstantial evidence.
That said, if you knew you had the means to rig the election, you couldn't just "play along" and do the things normal people do when running a campaign. When the pre-election polls and election day polls are wildly out of sync, people are going to think something's up. But if you've been running on a crazy-like-a-fox campaign strategy that results on "earned media" and so-called "economic anxiety" (racism) that no one has tried before, it becomes plausible that the pollsters would miss by a lot because it's unprecedented.
But back to reality, if Trump knew how to rig the vote, he'd be bragging about it constantly. The man has the filter of an overtired toddler.
posted by 0xFCAF at 1:57 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
That said, if you knew you had the means to rig the election, you couldn't just "play along" and do the things normal people do when running a campaign. When the pre-election polls and election day polls are wildly out of sync, people are going to think something's up. But if you've been running on a crazy-like-a-fox campaign strategy that results on "earned media" and so-called "economic anxiety" (racism) that no one has tried before, it becomes plausible that the pollsters would miss by a lot because it's unprecedented.
But back to reality, if Trump knew how to rig the vote, he'd be bragging about it constantly. The man has the filter of an overtired toddler.
posted by 0xFCAF at 1:57 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
But back to reality, if Trump knew how to rig the vote, he'd be bragging about it constantly.
And judging from the competency of the rest of his campaign (and his personality) he'd settle for nothing less than rigging the vote to get all the electoral votes. It'd be the most painfully obvious cheat, like my six year old kid is a more subtle cheat than anything Donald and friends could come up with.
posted by davros42 at 2:05 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
And judging from the competency of the rest of his campaign (and his personality) he'd settle for nothing less than rigging the vote to get all the electoral votes. It'd be the most painfully obvious cheat, like my six year old kid is a more subtle cheat than anything Donald and friends could come up with.
posted by davros42 at 2:05 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Not to throw ice water on some of the warm thoughts here, but there is a significant danger in the debates.
Last federal election here in Canada, the Harper Conservatives were unpopular but it was unclear what was going to happen. Because of the divided opposition, there were predictions ranging from a slim majority to an NDP minority, and it really could have gone to any of the top three parties. But one of the Harper ad lines was pointing out that Trudeau was completely untested and unreliable, to the point that some even suggested the third-place Liberals could consider it a success if he showed up to the debates on time.
That was the image people had of Trudeau, planted by Harper. So when Trudeau sounded reasonable and intelligent at the debates, the contrast raised his appeal and the anti-Harper vote coalesced around the Liberals and propelled Trudeau to victory.
Now, there's a lot more to what happened here in Canada, and there's a lot of differences in the two situations, but if people expect Trump to be a complete tool during the debates and he turns in a reasonable performance, he will get a bigger boost. A lot can change with a good debate performance, especially for a losing candidate.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 2:05 PM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
Last federal election here in Canada, the Harper Conservatives were unpopular but it was unclear what was going to happen. Because of the divided opposition, there were predictions ranging from a slim majority to an NDP minority, and it really could have gone to any of the top three parties. But one of the Harper ad lines was pointing out that Trudeau was completely untested and unreliable, to the point that some even suggested the third-place Liberals could consider it a success if he showed up to the debates on time.
That was the image people had of Trudeau, planted by Harper. So when Trudeau sounded reasonable and intelligent at the debates, the contrast raised his appeal and the anti-Harper vote coalesced around the Liberals and propelled Trudeau to victory.
Now, there's a lot more to what happened here in Canada, and there's a lot of differences in the two situations, but if people expect Trump to be a complete tool during the debates and he turns in a reasonable performance, he will get a bigger boost. A lot can change with a good debate performance, especially for a losing candidate.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 2:05 PM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
You guys remember how the Khan story was finally dying down? If only a prominent Republican could bring all our attention back to it again:
posted by zachlipton at 2:05 PM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
Former Gov. Rick Perry is defending Donald Trump's war of words with the family of a fallen Muslim soldier, saying the father "struck the first blow" against the Republican presidential nominee and is not above criticism in return.This, of course, comically misses the point that Trump's primary criticism was that Ghazala Khan was allegedly not "allowed" to speak.
"In a campaign, if you’re going to go out and think that you can take a shot at somebody and not have incoming coming back at you, shame on you," Perry said in an interview Tuesday on CNN.
posted by zachlipton at 2:05 PM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
Metafilter: the filter of an overtired toddler.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 2:06 PM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 2:06 PM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
"Trump acts like a man who knows he's gonna win. So either he does know it because he's making it happen or he's so epically delusional, a mad emperor awaiting the restoration of his fake empire, that we're just watching the pathetic spectacle of someone living in a hallucination.
Given how out of touch the 2012 Republican campaign was with their data and other information, I think hubris and short-sighted biases are enough to explain the 2016 Trump efforts.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:08 PM on August 16, 2016
Given how out of touch the 2012 Republican campaign was with their data and other information, I think hubris and short-sighted biases are enough to explain the 2016 Trump efforts.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:08 PM on August 16, 2016
So Stone's op-ed on vote rigging... Surely Reince has to sue for defamation right? How can he justify giving GOP money to Trumps campaign if Stone is an adviser to it?
posted by PenDevil at 2:12 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 2:12 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Clinton Didn’t Originate E-mails With Classified Info, FBI Says
There is no “clear evidence of knowledge or intent” to improperly store or transmit classified information on Hillary Clinton’s private e-mail system during her time as secretary of State, according to letter from FBI.
Copy of the FBI letter (PDF)
posted by madamjujujive at 2:21 PM on August 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
There is no “clear evidence of knowledge or intent” to improperly store or transmit classified information on Hillary Clinton’s private e-mail system during her time as secretary of State, according to letter from FBI.
Copy of the FBI letter (PDF)
posted by madamjujujive at 2:21 PM on August 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
TPM: Donald Trump tells Wisconsin TV Station he doesn't want to change [real?]
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:24 PM on August 16, 2016
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:24 PM on August 16, 2016
So very little out of the Trump camp today, other than surrogates being asses and the Ailes story?
Wow. How many days has it been since Trump wasn't stirring shit himself?
posted by dw at 2:24 PM on August 16, 2016
Wow. How many days has it been since Trump wasn't stirring shit himself?
posted by dw at 2:24 PM on August 16, 2016
I'm amazed that the Manafort Ukraine story isn't wall to wall on every news outlet.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:28 PM on August 16, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:28 PM on August 16, 2016 [18 favorites]
Also I am like 90% certain my World of Warcraft paladin once tanked the Manafort dungeon in a guild group.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:29 PM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:29 PM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Wow. How many days has it been since Trump wasn't stirring shit himself?
Who says the man doesn't have effective surrogates?
posted by nubs at 2:30 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Who says the man doesn't have effective surrogates?
posted by nubs at 2:30 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
The only thing direct from Trump today I saw is a tweet bragging about a poll showing him losing, apparently on the theory that 3 points isn't bad (though that the poll showed him drawing 36 should alarm him.) Did he speak today?
posted by bearwife at 2:30 PM on August 16, 2016
posted by bearwife at 2:30 PM on August 16, 2016
I will be profoundly disappointed in all of you if every line in Hamilton isn't quoted at least 2-3 times in the thread before the first results start rolling in
As a founding member of the #NeverHamilton movement I am already making plans to tie zachlipton's fingers together for the duration of the night.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:33 PM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
As a founding member of the #NeverHamilton movement I am already making plans to tie zachlipton's fingers together for the duration of the night.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:33 PM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
“The problems we’ve had with young women, he has made exponentially worse,” continued Graham. “So if we do lose, and the reason I think we’re going to lose, is because the demographic meltdown that came from harsh rhetoric and policies by Mr. Trump, making every problem we had in 2012 worse. It’s not about me not voting for Donald Trump, I’m not voting for Hillary Clinton, it is about America is changing and the party is being left behind.”
Here's the thing: The GOP has had a demographic problem for a decade, perhaps more. Graham knew that. They knew it in 2008 when Obama beat them and pulled in the minority vote. They knew it even more when Obama rolled to victory in 2012. And it's obvious they knew -- it's why Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz and Nikki Haley and Bobby Jindal and Allen West and Tim Scott have been pushed forward at varying times.
But they kept going towards the cliff. And now, they're looking at a core constituency of high-school educated white men, most over the age of 55.
Maybe the GOP should just die so it can be reborn. Sadly, they're so gerrymandered they can't just "die."
posted by dw at 2:35 PM on August 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
Here's the thing: The GOP has had a demographic problem for a decade, perhaps more. Graham knew that. They knew it in 2008 when Obama beat them and pulled in the minority vote. They knew it even more when Obama rolled to victory in 2012. And it's obvious they knew -- it's why Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz and Nikki Haley and Bobby Jindal and Allen West and Tim Scott have been pushed forward at varying times.
But they kept going towards the cliff. And now, they're looking at a core constituency of high-school educated white men, most over the age of 55.
Maybe the GOP should just die so it can be reborn. Sadly, they're so gerrymandered they can't just "die."
posted by dw at 2:35 PM on August 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
Did he speak today?
He has an event in WI at 7:30 (not sure if that's local or Eastern time.) The day is still young.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:35 PM on August 16, 2016
He has an event in WI at 7:30 (not sure if that's local or Eastern time.) The day is still young.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:35 PM on August 16, 2016
Former Gov. Rick Perry is defending Donald Trump's war of words with the family of a fallen Muslim soldier, saying the father "struck the first blow" against the Republican presidential nominee and is not above criticism in return.
I can totally imagine Rick Perry bellowing, "HE DREW FIRST BLOOD!"
posted by indubitable at 2:36 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I can totally imagine Rick Perry bellowing, "HE DREW FIRST BLOOD!"
posted by indubitable at 2:36 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
The public deserves information. There is more than one way to distribute that information. If people can point to specific questions that aren't being answered, that's a point worth making, but press conferences as a format should not be considered sacred if they're encouraging bad behavior in a way that actively discourages women and POC from participating in public leadership.
This. (From far above.) In an unrelated note, I am sorry that The Nightly Show is being cancelled but also furious that on the show from August 11th the two male panelists (not Larry Wilcox) claimed that this election features "two pieces of shit" and the guest, Ana Marie Cox, apparently felt compelled to agree. MetaFilter has done a good job of educating me about false equivalency and watching that made my blood boil. Like, I think these guys are New Yorkers and yet they don't give Clinton any credit for how hard she worked for NY after 9/11? Fuckers.
posted by Bella Donna at 2:37 PM on August 16, 2016 [18 favorites]
This. (From far above.) In an unrelated note, I am sorry that The Nightly Show is being cancelled but also furious that on the show from August 11th the two male panelists (not Larry Wilcox) claimed that this election features "two pieces of shit" and the guest, Ana Marie Cox, apparently felt compelled to agree. MetaFilter has done a good job of educating me about false equivalency and watching that made my blood boil. Like, I think these guys are New Yorkers and yet they don't give Clinton any credit for how hard she worked for NY after 9/11? Fuckers.
posted by Bella Donna at 2:37 PM on August 16, 2016 [18 favorites]
Here's the thing: The GOP has had a demographic problem for a decade, perhaps more.
Remember how GWB was the Compassionate Conservative who was gonna bring Hispanic voters into the Republican fold?
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:38 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Remember how GWB was the Compassionate Conservative who was gonna bring Hispanic voters into the Republican fold?
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:38 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
As a founding member of the #NeverHamilton movement I am already making plans to tie zachlipton's fingers together for the duration of the night.
You're the worst, tivalasvegas.
posted by zachlipton at 2:41 PM on August 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
You're the worst, tivalasvegas.
posted by zachlipton at 2:41 PM on August 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
You're the worst, tivalasvegas.
and possibly aaron burr
posted by entropicamericana at 2:43 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
and possibly aaron burr
posted by entropicamericana at 2:43 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
So apparently, the cost for dank memes is $30k.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:43 PM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:43 PM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
Joe Biden is in Belgrade. Josh Marshall: Ultra-Nat Serb leader just acquitted of war crimes holds epic Trump rally to greet Biden - I link to his Twitter post for the photo. Trump is popular with tyrants, white supremacists and war criminals. That right there is all you need to know.
posted by madamjujujive at 2:43 PM on August 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by madamjujujive at 2:43 PM on August 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
As a founding member of the #NeverHamilton movement I am already making plans to tie zachlipton's fingers together for the duration of the night.
You're the worst, tivalasvegas.
Stop squabbling kids, or we'll have to turn this election around.
posted by Bella Donna at 2:43 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
You're the worst, tivalasvegas.
Stop squabbling kids, or we'll have to turn this election around.
posted by Bella Donna at 2:43 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Aaron Burr gave us Michael Bay.
Truly, history's greatest villain.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:44 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Truly, history's greatest villain.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:44 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
So apparently, the cost for dank memes is $30k.
Wow, that's way more than town.
posted by Bella Donna at 2:45 PM on August 16, 2016 [26 favorites]
Wow, that's way more than town.
posted by Bella Donna at 2:45 PM on August 16, 2016 [26 favorites]
Donald Trump tells Wisconsin TV Station he doesn't want to change
I'm pretty sure this is exactly what he'd say if he were trying to change as well..? I mean, admitting you're changing tactics is equivalent to admitting your original tactics were wrong, and when has Trump ever admitted to being wrong?
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:47 PM on August 16, 2016
I'm pretty sure this is exactly what he'd say if he were trying to change as well..? I mean, admitting you're changing tactics is equivalent to admitting your original tactics were wrong, and when has Trump ever admitted to being wrong?
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:47 PM on August 16, 2016
The GOP has had a demographic problem for a decade, perhaps more.
Their "demographic problem" is that they have been implementing the Southern Strategy for several decades and don't have much of a platform other than Tax Breaks for the Rich and Abortions for None. That platform isn't going to attract a wide selection of demographic groups. To do better with non-Rich White Guys and People Who Think They May Become Rich White Guys they'd need policies that benefited non-Rich White Guys, and then they wouldn't be the Republican Party anymore.
posted by Cookiebastard at 2:49 PM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
Their "demographic problem" is that they have been implementing the Southern Strategy for several decades and don't have much of a platform other than Tax Breaks for the Rich and Abortions for None. That platform isn't going to attract a wide selection of demographic groups. To do better with non-Rich White Guys and People Who Think They May Become Rich White Guys they'd need policies that benefited non-Rich White Guys, and then they wouldn't be the Republican Party anymore.
posted by Cookiebastard at 2:49 PM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
The thing that gets me so excited about the Texas poll numbers is that voter turnout in Texas is shit. I feel like it's because so many liberal-leaning and young Texans feel like their vote won't count because Texas is a guaranteed Red State. So these polls are exciting to me because it gives me a little hope that people might actually show up at the polls in November if they think they have a chance on influencing things.
I found myself on the Texas Democratic Party volunteer webpage, but due to my disability and current lack of a car I feel really hampered in my ability to help. I'd love to help get people registered and drive people to polls, but right now I can't guarantee I'd actually be able to do those things. Maybe when things get closer to the election I'll have a more stable situation. I'm still pondering if I can get over my phone anxiety enough to phone bank.
posted by threeturtles at 2:51 PM on August 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
I found myself on the Texas Democratic Party volunteer webpage, but due to my disability and current lack of a car I feel really hampered in my ability to help. I'd love to help get people registered and drive people to polls, but right now I can't guarantee I'd actually be able to do those things. Maybe when things get closer to the election I'll have a more stable situation. I'm still pondering if I can get over my phone anxiety enough to phone bank.
posted by threeturtles at 2:51 PM on August 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
Now, there's a lot more to what happened here in Canada, and there's a lot of differences in the two situations, but if people expect Trump to be a complete tool during the debates and he turns in a reasonable performance, he will get a bigger boost. A lot can change with a good debate performance, especially for a losing candidate.
Trump smiles winningly and peels off his shirt.
AMERICA SWOONS.
[so very very fake]
posted by srboisvert at 2:53 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump smiles winningly and peels off his shirt.
AMERICA SWOONS.
[so very very fake]
posted by srboisvert at 2:53 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
“I don’t wanna change. Everybody talks about, ‘Oh well, you’re gonna pivot, you’re gonna’ — I don’t wanna pivot. I mean, you have to be you. If you start pivoting, you’re not being honest with people.”
[real?]
I mean, probably. Politico also has it.
I'm trying to get through the five-minute interview, but not making any promises.
posted by box at 2:56 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
[real?]
I mean, probably. Politico also has it.
I'm trying to get through the five-minute interview, but not making any promises.
posted by box at 2:56 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maybe the GOP should just die so it can be reborn. Sadly, they're so gerrymandered they can't just "die."
On the positive side they are so gerrymandered they can't even move one inch to the left in their primaries without being clobbered by a racist fascist.
Painted themselves into a crazy corner.
posted by srboisvert at 2:57 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
On the positive side they are so gerrymandered they can't even move one inch to the left in their primaries without being clobbered by a racist fascist.
Painted themselves into a crazy corner.
posted by srboisvert at 2:57 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Donald Trump Is Not Going to Like How He Looks on the New Cover of Adbusters
Trump deposition: "It's not like I've said anything that could be so bad"
Trump deposition: "It's not like I've said anything that could be so bad"
When Zakarian's counsel asked Trump to read a portion of the contract out loud to ensure he understood the terms and conditions, the Republican presidential nominee blamed his poor eyesight for not being able to do so.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:59 PM on August 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
"I don't have my glasses on me," he said. "I am at a disadvantage because I didn't bring my glasses. This is such small writing."
I was thinking about this article. Of course HIPAA restricts anything Dr. Bornstein might say even if he wanted to, but I wonder if he would consent to verify that he indeed wrote that letter, and that it is comparable to other such letters he has written.
Genetics being what they are, it seems very likely that a man who now faces cheering crowds ready to kill at his word will, within a decade, see nothing but a wall, an old TV, and whoever has the job of shifting his weight so that he does not get bedsores.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:01 PM on August 16, 2016
Genetics being what they are, it seems very likely that a man who now faces cheering crowds ready to kill at his word will, within a decade, see nothing but a wall, an old TV, and whoever has the job of shifting his weight so that he does not get bedsores.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:01 PM on August 16, 2016
Man oh man. I'm making the birthday thank–you phone rounds, and one of those thank–you stops was my Floridian grandfather, who I've been trying not to talk to this year because of how enthused he was last year that Trump was a primary candidate.
Over the course of our conversation, he mentioned how disappointed he is that America's not a fan of political leaders like Putin—"the Russian people love him!"—and said that he hopes he gets killed by a "black guy" so that he can tell me he told me so when I said that I don't think #BlackLivesMatter really wants to see a lot of white people dead. He also said that if just one in a hundred Muslims is a radical, then we'd have way too many radical Muslims coming into America, so I reassured him that my Muslim friends are way less radical or violent than I happen to be on any given day.
(The Putin part is weird to me, because my dad's family has a weirdly passionate connection to Russian politics—my grandfather's grandfather was in charge of Russia's secret police force before the October Revolution forced him to flee the country, and the next several generations of my father's family were actively involved in organizing anti-Communist movements throughout Europe. I'm not really sure how you go from that to seeing Putin as somehow less criminal or corrupt than the political leaders you had back then, though perhaps "is old; lives in Florida" is enough to get you most of the way there.)
posted by rorgy at 3:10 PM on August 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
Over the course of our conversation, he mentioned how disappointed he is that America's not a fan of political leaders like Putin—"the Russian people love him!"—and said that he hopes he gets killed by a "black guy" so that he can tell me he told me so when I said that I don't think #BlackLivesMatter really wants to see a lot of white people dead. He also said that if just one in a hundred Muslims is a radical, then we'd have way too many radical Muslims coming into America, so I reassured him that my Muslim friends are way less radical or violent than I happen to be on any given day.
(The Putin part is weird to me, because my dad's family has a weirdly passionate connection to Russian politics—my grandfather's grandfather was in charge of Russia's secret police force before the October Revolution forced him to flee the country, and the next several generations of my father's family were actively involved in organizing anti-Communist movements throughout Europe. I'm not really sure how you go from that to seeing Putin as somehow less criminal or corrupt than the political leaders you had back then, though perhaps "is old; lives in Florida" is enough to get you most of the way there.)
posted by rorgy at 3:10 PM on August 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
Phone banked for Hillary today, the experience somewhat marred by a very young, very awkward male volunteer who creeped on me enough that I left early.
Talked to a whole bunch of literally 90 year old women, and one female relative who announced "I am a Republican."
I regret that I missed my chance to ask "WHY?"
ETA: the 90 year olds were all very enthusiastic for Hillary.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:10 PM on August 16, 2016 [20 favorites]
Talked to a whole bunch of literally 90 year old women, and one female relative who announced "I am a Republican."
I regret that I missed my chance to ask "WHY?"
ETA: the 90 year olds were all very enthusiastic for Hillary.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:10 PM on August 16, 2016 [20 favorites]
Trump smiles winningly and peels off his shirt.
Sticky, gummy strands of years' worth of coagulated spray tan stretch luridly as they cling to the inside of the shirt, like the cheddar in a cheeseburger when the top bun is slowly pulled away. Wolf Blitzer screams.
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:15 PM on August 16, 2016 [35 favorites]
Sticky, gummy strands of years' worth of coagulated spray tan stretch luridly as they cling to the inside of the shirt, like the cheddar in a cheeseburger when the top bun is slowly pulled away. Wolf Blitzer screams.
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:15 PM on August 16, 2016 [35 favorites]
'Sadly, they're so gerrymandered they can't just "die."'
'On the positive side they are so gerrymandered they can't even move one inch to the left in their primaries without being clobbered by a racist fascist. Painted themselves into a crazy corner.'
These are really interesting observations that probably explain a lot about what happened to the GOP... They make it seem like their gerrymandering-greed was their undoing, like some kind of "tragic flaw" from a Greek play. And I guess it could lead to "permanent minority" status instead of the "permanent majority" they were aiming for with these tactics in the Bush years, which is some Greek-play-level irony.
But I don't think it's actually a positive thing that they can't move an inch to their left. I'd take a moderate, functional Republican party which gets 50% +/- 1% of the votes and acts as a checking mechanism against the perils of one party rule over a rabidly right-wing "permanent minority" any day. Because even as a minority they can be obstructionist, and if they get desperate, they can undermine our democracy and the legitimacy of our process, as Trump is trying to do now.
I really wish they hadn't gerrymandered themselves into this corner, and were able to get out of this mess by taking one giant step to their left to steal the rightmost edge of the Democratic party, leaving the Dems to take two giant steps to the left to secure their own leftmost fringe... and leaving the crazy racists unrepresented because they alienated everyone and no one else wants to share a party with them anymore.
Instead, all that gerrymandering means the crazy racists will always have some legislators who answer to them alone. And those people will stay in a position to do a lot of damage as the crazy racists get angrier and angrier about the fact that everyone else is backing away slowly, leaving them alone... But not without power.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:16 PM on August 16, 2016 [30 favorites]
'On the positive side they are so gerrymandered they can't even move one inch to the left in their primaries without being clobbered by a racist fascist. Painted themselves into a crazy corner.'
These are really interesting observations that probably explain a lot about what happened to the GOP... They make it seem like their gerrymandering-greed was their undoing, like some kind of "tragic flaw" from a Greek play. And I guess it could lead to "permanent minority" status instead of the "permanent majority" they were aiming for with these tactics in the Bush years, which is some Greek-play-level irony.
But I don't think it's actually a positive thing that they can't move an inch to their left. I'd take a moderate, functional Republican party which gets 50% +/- 1% of the votes and acts as a checking mechanism against the perils of one party rule over a rabidly right-wing "permanent minority" any day. Because even as a minority they can be obstructionist, and if they get desperate, they can undermine our democracy and the legitimacy of our process, as Trump is trying to do now.
I really wish they hadn't gerrymandered themselves into this corner, and were able to get out of this mess by taking one giant step to their left to steal the rightmost edge of the Democratic party, leaving the Dems to take two giant steps to the left to secure their own leftmost fringe... and leaving the crazy racists unrepresented because they alienated everyone and no one else wants to share a party with them anymore.
Instead, all that gerrymandering means the crazy racists will always have some legislators who answer to them alone. And those people will stay in a position to do a lot of damage as the crazy racists get angrier and angrier about the fact that everyone else is backing away slowly, leaving them alone... But not without power.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:16 PM on August 16, 2016 [30 favorites]
To go back briefly to debate prep, I would humbly suggest that the best team she could possibly assemble would be Jon Stewart, David Letterman, and Howard Stern. And standing in for Trump: Colbert.
posted by wabbittwax at 3:25 PM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by wabbittwax at 3:25 PM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
Donald Trump Is Not Going to Like How He Looks on the New Cover of Adbusters
Really? Really? That's so basic. I mean, not that Trump isn't an authoritarian, but that's the kind of visual rhetoric I deployed in the punk-rock fanzines I made when I was 16. I honesty expect more.
posted by adamgreenfield at 3:26 PM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Really? Really? That's so basic. I mean, not that Trump isn't an authoritarian, but that's the kind of visual rhetoric I deployed in the punk-rock fanzines I made when I was 16. I honesty expect more.
posted by adamgreenfield at 3:26 PM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Sam Wang, PEC: HRC running 5.8 points ahead of Obama in Aug. 2012. Corresponds to 51%-41%-8% vote in Nov.: https://t.co/VjrBT7wswP https://t.co/wgNTEXDNyG
posted by OmieWise at 3:28 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by OmieWise at 3:28 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Like, the barcode Hitler 'stache, particularly. I know it's their barcode, but it just reads all '80s DO NOT FOLD SPINDLE OR MUTILATE BEEP BOOP COMPUTERS ARE EATING OUR SOULS to me.
posted by adamgreenfield at 3:29 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by adamgreenfield at 3:29 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
I honesty expect more.
Dude, maybe you don't get it. The barcode makes him look like Hitler, who was like, the king of Fascism, like it's not even an exaggeration to call that guy a Nazi. And using a barcode? That's pretty fucking brilliant, I mean it really shows how we're all just commodities, man. Like I don't know how you can look at that and not realize that Donald Trump is the biggest sell-out of all time.
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:31 PM on August 16, 2016 [24 favorites]
Dude, maybe you don't get it. The barcode makes him look like Hitler, who was like, the king of Fascism, like it's not even an exaggeration to call that guy a Nazi. And using a barcode? That's pretty fucking brilliant, I mean it really shows how we're all just commodities, man. Like I don't know how you can look at that and not realize that Donald Trump is the biggest sell-out of all time.
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:31 PM on August 16, 2016 [24 favorites]
Have you ever seen Adjusters, adamgreenfield??
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 3:31 PM on August 16, 2016
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 3:31 PM on August 16, 2016
> Hitler [] was like, the king of Fascism, like it's not even an exaggeration to call that guy a Nazi.
A rare recorded instance of a failure of Godwin's law on the internet. Brilliant.
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:36 PM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
A rare recorded instance of a failure of Godwin's law on the internet. Brilliant.
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:36 PM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
>WSJ: No model is perfect, but Mr. Abramowitz’s has predicted the winner of the major-party popular vote in every presidential election since 1988. His model predicts that Mr. Trump should win a narrow victory with 51.4%. A mainstream GOP candidate who runs a reasonably competent campaign would have about a 66% chance of victory.
The thing is, if the economy were in the crapper and if Obama were wildly unpopular (ie, the approximate situation we were in at the end of the Bush Jr regime) then this prediction would be right on the mark.
But the actual reality today is that the economy is doing pretty good and President Obama is pretty popular. That puts the shoe is on the other foot--slight advantage Democrats.
If the Republicans had a nice, competent, middle-of-the-road candidate like, say, Romney, they could probably do again in 2016 about what Romney did in 2012. Which is to say, put on a decent campaign and lose by only a couple of percentage points.
But none of the "serious" Republican candidates this year were anywhere near Romney's level of general appeal.
Rubio? Cruz? Either would have being doing a lot better than Trump is, but a lot worse than Romney. Neither would be anywhere close to winning.
Republicans need to stop kidding themselves. Until they stop kidding themselves, they are not ready to make the serious change they need to as a party to re-join the mainstream of America.
posted by flug at 3:36 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
The thing is, if the economy were in the crapper and if Obama were wildly unpopular (ie, the approximate situation we were in at the end of the Bush Jr regime) then this prediction would be right on the mark.
But the actual reality today is that the economy is doing pretty good and President Obama is pretty popular. That puts the shoe is on the other foot--slight advantage Democrats.
If the Republicans had a nice, competent, middle-of-the-road candidate like, say, Romney, they could probably do again in 2016 about what Romney did in 2012. Which is to say, put on a decent campaign and lose by only a couple of percentage points.
But none of the "serious" Republican candidates this year were anywhere near Romney's level of general appeal.
Rubio? Cruz? Either would have being doing a lot better than Trump is, but a lot worse than Romney. Neither would be anywhere close to winning.
Republicans need to stop kidding themselves. Until they stop kidding themselves, they are not ready to make the serious change they need to as a party to re-join the mainstream of America.
posted by flug at 3:36 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Kinda sad that Time Magazine is out–graphic designing Adbusters on this one.
posted by rorgy at 3:40 PM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by rorgy at 3:40 PM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
I think the Adbusters cover is perfect. Obnoxious juvenile candidates deserve obnoxious juvenile treatment.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:43 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:43 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Thinking a bit more... I guess gerrymandering shouldn't lead to these "can't even move one inch to the left in their primaries without being clobbered by a racist fascist" results, should it? Because gerrymandering means that you get 10 very light red districts and concentrate your opponent's voters into one very deep blue district. You'd think the light-red districts would actually elect more moderate candidates, because they're each only 50.1% Republican or whatever, and the one deep blue district would elect an extreme leftist, because they're 100% Democratic. So... As nice as the "tragic flaw" story is (I was already getting attached to the poetry of that), I'm not sure gerrymandering actually explains how the Republicans became so answerable to their own extreme fringe. Why can't they just take a giant step to the left?
(It must be just the polarization of the electorate, right? We're less of a nice Gaussian distribution with a peak in the center these days, and more bi-modal? So if they take a step to the left they lose part of their big peak and don't pick up that much from the valley in the center? I feel like I need charts to talk about this.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:48 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
(It must be just the polarization of the electorate, right? We're less of a nice Gaussian distribution with a peak in the center these days, and more bi-modal? So if they take a step to the left they lose part of their big peak and don't pick up that much from the valley in the center? I feel like I need charts to talk about this.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:48 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
The letter released from the FBI is from the FBI's Congressional liaison, not that lying political hack Comey and leaves a quite different impression. Let's summarize what we know, since there is still so much confusion of the subject.
As the FBI's representative concedes in the letter, it is highly unusual for the FBI to make a public statement about a investigation which does not result in a recommendation for prosecution. That role is the prosecutor's discretion, not the investigator's. (Hasn't everyone watched the first 20 seconds of Law and Order describing the proper roles of investigator and prosecutor?) That Comey went beyond his role indicates that this was a political decision.
The problem is that Comey took on the role of prosecutor and people swallowed Comey's prosecution presentation without cross-examination. Fortunately at least some semblance of cross-examination came when he later appeared before Congress. The results weren't pretty, but mostly ignored by the press.
A). How many people knew that the three emails at the heart of his prosecution were not sent by Clinton but were instead received. How many people tossed around the idea that Clinton was recklessly passing around secret information. Comey intentionally omitted the detail that Clinton did not send it.
B). Of the three emails he claimed were classified and marked classified in his public prosecution, it turns out that two were actually not classified. Under cross-examination Comey said that he did not realize that. Think about that for a moment. Comey had the audacity of accusing Clinton of being extremely careless because she failed to recognize that three of the 30,000 emails she received contained ambiguous markings, yet Comey, who had those emails in his possession for months, failed to even take the rudimentary step of checking if these emails were actually classified material. That you might call "extremely reckless" and misleading to the public.
(C). So that leaves just one single email out of 30,000 that Comey told the public was marked classified. Yet days later, under cross-examination he was force to admit that this email that Clinton received was not properly marked. It did not contain the proper header to indicate that it was classified. Here is Comey under cross-examination:
Question: So if Secretary Clinton really were an expert at what's classified and what's not classified and were following the manual, the absence of a header would tell her immediately that those three documents were not classified. Am I correct in that?
Comey: That would be a reasonable inference.
So here we have Comey admitting that he had mischaracterized the emails he claimed to be "marked as classified," keeping in mind that two of the three weren't even classified material. Without cross-examination, you never would have known that.
Oh, and by the way, did you happen to notice that the second paragraph above this was marked as Confidential with the C in closed parens? That was the indication that Comey led you to believe that Clinton was extremely careless in not spotting in the perhaps 15 seconds she spent scanning one email received out of 30,000.
D). And did you get the impression from Comey's statement that Clinton was compromising national security with this one email. He conveniently left out any description of the content of that email to allow your imagination to run wild. First off, the document was not Top Secret, it was not Secret, it was Confidential. It wasn't the nuclear codes, it wasn't about Russian spy networks, it wasn't secret military operations. It was about Clinton planning a phone call to a head of state. Such discussions are typically considered confidential because you don't want to embarrass a head of state by letting them think they should expect a phone call but for some reason the phone call is cancelled or postponed. Yep, the national security secret that Comey implied that Clinton was "extremely careless" about was the equivalent of arranging a date for the prom.
E). Finally, Comey's claim that he could find no evidence to support her claim that her private email account was approved. He cites "the" State Department IT manager as saying he would not approve it if he hand known about. But wait, who is "the" IT manager? It turns out that Comey only interviewed the 2016 IT manager, not the IT manager when Clinton was there in 2009. Of course Comey let it be implied that Clinton concealed it from that IT director (hence the quote "if he had known about it") but of course he didn't know about because he wasn't even there in 2009.
And of course the IT manager in 2016, seeing the recent shitstorm, would say he wouldn't make such an approval today. Contrary to the impression Comey left, from the separate GAO investigation we have testimony from two IT employees that said that Clinton email arrangement was approved by the current IT manager in 2009. Yet Comey apparently didn't even bother to interview that manager, once again misleading the public. You won't find any evidence if you don't look.
And of course, the IT manager in 2009 would have approved it because that was standard practice in the years before Clinton took office. The Bush adminstration had over 100 officials who used for their primary official business personal email accounts hosted on a private server located at the Republican National Committee headquarters. There has never been and there still is not any law, regulation or rule prohibiting the use of personal email for official business. In fact there are specific instructions indicating how to do so.
So the two big Clinton lies that everyone quotes, including questionable source like PolitiFact, fall apart after closer examination. She was not lying when she said she didn't send or receive classified information. She was not lying when she said her email arrangement was approved.
The lesson is to never accept the prosecution's case out of hand before cross-examination. Comey was obviously giving a one-sided and misleading picture, withholding half the truth, to bias public opinion.
The interesting thing about the FBI liaison letter is that its tone is almost apologetic about the embarrassing behavior of their FBI director.
Sorry to go on for so long but the truth is always more complicated than lies.
posted by JackFlash at 3:48 PM on August 16, 2016 [333 favorites]
As the FBI's representative concedes in the letter, it is highly unusual for the FBI to make a public statement about a investigation which does not result in a recommendation for prosecution. That role is the prosecutor's discretion, not the investigator's. (Hasn't everyone watched the first 20 seconds of Law and Order describing the proper roles of investigator and prosecutor?) That Comey went beyond his role indicates that this was a political decision.
The problem is that Comey took on the role of prosecutor and people swallowed Comey's prosecution presentation without cross-examination. Fortunately at least some semblance of cross-examination came when he later appeared before Congress. The results weren't pretty, but mostly ignored by the press.
A). How many people knew that the three emails at the heart of his prosecution were not sent by Clinton but were instead received. How many people tossed around the idea that Clinton was recklessly passing around secret information. Comey intentionally omitted the detail that Clinton did not send it.
B). Of the three emails he claimed were classified and marked classified in his public prosecution, it turns out that two were actually not classified. Under cross-examination Comey said that he did not realize that. Think about that for a moment. Comey had the audacity of accusing Clinton of being extremely careless because she failed to recognize that three of the 30,000 emails she received contained ambiguous markings, yet Comey, who had those emails in his possession for months, failed to even take the rudimentary step of checking if these emails were actually classified material. That you might call "extremely reckless" and misleading to the public.
(C). So that leaves just one single email out of 30,000 that Comey told the public was marked classified. Yet days later, under cross-examination he was force to admit that this email that Clinton received was not properly marked. It did not contain the proper header to indicate that it was classified. Here is Comey under cross-examination:
Question: So if Secretary Clinton really were an expert at what's classified and what's not classified and were following the manual, the absence of a header would tell her immediately that those three documents were not classified. Am I correct in that?
Comey: That would be a reasonable inference.
So here we have Comey admitting that he had mischaracterized the emails he claimed to be "marked as classified," keeping in mind that two of the three weren't even classified material. Without cross-examination, you never would have known that.
Oh, and by the way, did you happen to notice that the second paragraph above this was marked as Confidential with the C in closed parens? That was the indication that Comey led you to believe that Clinton was extremely careless in not spotting in the perhaps 15 seconds she spent scanning one email received out of 30,000.
D). And did you get the impression from Comey's statement that Clinton was compromising national security with this one email. He conveniently left out any description of the content of that email to allow your imagination to run wild. First off, the document was not Top Secret, it was not Secret, it was Confidential. It wasn't the nuclear codes, it wasn't about Russian spy networks, it wasn't secret military operations. It was about Clinton planning a phone call to a head of state. Such discussions are typically considered confidential because you don't want to embarrass a head of state by letting them think they should expect a phone call but for some reason the phone call is cancelled or postponed. Yep, the national security secret that Comey implied that Clinton was "extremely careless" about was the equivalent of arranging a date for the prom.
E). Finally, Comey's claim that he could find no evidence to support her claim that her private email account was approved. He cites "the" State Department IT manager as saying he would not approve it if he hand known about. But wait, who is "the" IT manager? It turns out that Comey only interviewed the 2016 IT manager, not the IT manager when Clinton was there in 2009. Of course Comey let it be implied that Clinton concealed it from that IT director (hence the quote "if he had known about it") but of course he didn't know about because he wasn't even there in 2009.
And of course the IT manager in 2016, seeing the recent shitstorm, would say he wouldn't make such an approval today. Contrary to the impression Comey left, from the separate GAO investigation we have testimony from two IT employees that said that Clinton email arrangement was approved by the current IT manager in 2009. Yet Comey apparently didn't even bother to interview that manager, once again misleading the public. You won't find any evidence if you don't look.
And of course, the IT manager in 2009 would have approved it because that was standard practice in the years before Clinton took office. The Bush adminstration had over 100 officials who used for their primary official business personal email accounts hosted on a private server located at the Republican National Committee headquarters. There has never been and there still is not any law, regulation or rule prohibiting the use of personal email for official business. In fact there are specific instructions indicating how to do so.
So the two big Clinton lies that everyone quotes, including questionable source like PolitiFact, fall apart after closer examination. She was not lying when she said she didn't send or receive classified information. She was not lying when she said her email arrangement was approved.
The lesson is to never accept the prosecution's case out of hand before cross-examination. Comey was obviously giving a one-sided and misleading picture, withholding half the truth, to bias public opinion.
The interesting thing about the FBI liaison letter is that its tone is almost apologetic about the embarrassing behavior of their FBI director.
Sorry to go on for so long but the truth is always more complicated than lies.
posted by JackFlash at 3:48 PM on August 16, 2016 [333 favorites]
Really? Really? That's so basic. I mean, not that Trump isn't an authoritarian, but that's the kind of visual rhetoric I deployed in the punk-rock fanzines I made when I was 16. I honesty expect more.
They kind of blew it, it should have a been 3rd generation from a old copy machine for that authentic vibe.
posted by bongo_x at 3:51 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
They kind of blew it, it should have a been 3rd generation from a old copy machine for that authentic vibe.
posted by bongo_x at 3:51 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
Hasn't everyone watched the first 20 seconds of Law and Order describing the proper roles of investigator and prosecutor?
"In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by three separate yet equally important groups -- the police who investigate crime, the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders, and the goddamn Batman".
posted by thelonius at 3:52 PM on August 16, 2016 [24 favorites]
"In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by three separate yet equally important groups -- the police who investigate crime, the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders, and the goddamn Batman".
posted by thelonius at 3:52 PM on August 16, 2016 [24 favorites]
Some past Adbusters covers for comparison, including one that's not so nice to Obama.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:55 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:55 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
JackFlash, I really appreciate your efforts to interpret first-hand sources and report back. Your breakdown of the Clinton tax returns was also great.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 3:55 PM on August 16, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 3:55 PM on August 16, 2016 [31 favorites]
State Department to Release Deleted Clinton Emails:
The State Department has announced that all work-related emails recovered from Hillary Clinton's private servers will be released.posted by kirkaracha at 3:55 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
The State Department has announced that all work-related emails recovered from Hillary Clinton's private servers will be released.
I'm sure they'll be scintillating.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:58 PM on August 16, 2016
I'm sure they'll be scintillating.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:58 PM on August 16, 2016
including one that's not so nice to Obama.
oh--oh my god
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:59 PM on August 16, 2016
oh--oh my god
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:59 PM on August 16, 2016
State Department to Release Deleted Clinton Emails
Object lesson #1 that nothing on a computer EVER completely disappears.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:00 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Object lesson #1 that nothing on a computer EVER completely disappears.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:00 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
State Department to Release Deleted Clinton Emails
so you're saying Bernie still has a chance
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:03 PM on August 16, 2016 [23 favorites]
so you're saying Bernie still has a chance
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:03 PM on August 16, 2016 [23 favorites]
okay, this one from 2008 is more complimentary to Obama, as well as Mrs. Clinton (but ignore the other little guy with the drum)
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:05 PM on August 16, 2016
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:05 PM on August 16, 2016
Stop squabbling kids, or we'll have to turn this election around.
PLEASE NO WE'RE GETTING SO CLOSE TO THE END zach and I will be good we promise
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:19 PM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
PLEASE NO WE'RE GETTING SO CLOSE TO THE END zach and I will be good we promise
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:19 PM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
Matt Taibbi: The Summer of the Shill: Campaign 2016 won't just have lasting implications for American politics. It's obliterated what was left of our news media
Democracy Now: "Extreme Vetting": Trump Vows Ideological Test for Immigrants & Return to McCarthy-Era Repression
Matt Taibbi on Trump's Position on NATO, Russia & his Campaign Head's $13 Million Scandal in Ukraine
posted by homunculus at 4:22 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Democracy Now: "Extreme Vetting": Trump Vows Ideological Test for Immigrants & Return to McCarthy-Era Repression
Matt Taibbi on Trump's Position on NATO, Russia & his Campaign Head's $13 Million Scandal in Ukraine
posted by homunculus at 4:22 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't see why people are worried about one of the most prepared, most knowledgeable, most disciplined politicians debating against her antithesis.
*Al Gore sigh*
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:25 PM on August 16, 2016 [35 favorites]
*Al Gore sigh*
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:25 PM on August 16, 2016 [35 favorites]
I'm thinking the final election day thread should have a scheme whereby we pledge to donate to charity for each post containing a Hamilton reference (Graham Windham or another organization that helps children would be fitting).
83 days to go!
posted by zachlipton at 4:29 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
83 days to go!
posted by zachlipton at 4:29 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
But George W. was just Dopey. The Trumpster Fire is a combination of Dopey, Grumpy and Sneezy, and Al Gore was never compared to Snow White.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:30 PM on August 16, 2016
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:30 PM on August 16, 2016
Like, the barcode Hitler 'stache, particularly. I know it's their barcode, but it just reads all '80s DO NOT FOLD SPINDLE OR MUTILATE BEEP BOOP COMPUTERS ARE EATING OUR SOULS to me.
I wish I could get a BOOP from my computer while it is eating my soul. Even if it has to come after a BEEP. All I ever get is BONK.
posted by srboisvert at 4:31 PM on August 16, 2016
I wish I could get a BOOP from my computer while it is eating my soul. Even if it has to come after a BEEP. All I ever get is BONK.
posted by srboisvert at 4:31 PM on August 16, 2016
It's pretty common for super competent people to look bad in debates because of high expectations for them and low expectations for their opponent. On the other hand, every time Trump tries to say something substantive he sounds like a high school sophomore who didn't actually read the book and is just writing their paper based on what the cover looks like.
It could go either way, is what I'm saying.
posted by teponaztli at 4:31 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
It could go either way, is what I'm saying.
posted by teponaztli at 4:31 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
What's a Hamilton?
posted by Artw at 4:31 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 4:31 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
$10, SAIT.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:33 PM on August 16, 2016 [42 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:33 PM on August 16, 2016 [42 favorites]
Trump's pledge to the American people [real]:
This is my pledge to the American people: as your President I will be your greatest champion. I will fight to ensure that every American is treated equally, protected equally, and honored equally.posted by kirkaracha at 4:35 PM on August 16, 2016
We will reject bigotry and hatred and oppression in all its forms, and seek a new future built on our common culture and values as one American people.
I think he spelled "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer" wrong.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:35 PM on August 16, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 4:35 PM on August 16, 2016 [27 favorites]
Al Gore was never compared to Snow White.
sexism
posted by Going To Maine at 4:35 PM on August 16, 2016
sexism
posted by Going To Maine at 4:35 PM on August 16, 2016
What's a Hamilton?
What? You don't live in New York?
posted by indubitable at 4:35 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
What? You don't live in New York?
posted by indubitable at 4:35 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think it's great that the State dept is releasing the rest of the emails. Here's hoping we get an update on the Gefilte Fish. But more importantly, it's one more stupid talking point that Trump can't use anymore.
Where are your tax returns Donald?
posted by dis_integration at 4:36 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
Where are your tax returns Donald?
posted by dis_integration at 4:36 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
Where are your tax returns Donald?
At the editor.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:38 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
At the editor.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:38 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
The State Department has announced that all work-related emails recovered from Hillary Clinton's private servers will be released.
To: State Department All Staff List
From: Hillary
Subject: Re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Bananas in the break room
Hi everyone:
I'm going to ask Greg from IT to send around that link to the video on email ettiquitte again, and ask you to watch it again, particularly the section on the use of the "reply all" function.
posted by nubs at 4:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [45 favorites]
To: State Department All Staff List
From: Hillary
Subject: Re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Bananas in the break room
Hi everyone:
I'm going to ask Greg from IT to send around that link to the video on email ettiquitte again, and ask you to watch it again, particularly the section on the use of the "reply all" function.
posted by nubs at 4:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [45 favorites]
Trump's pledge to the American people [real]
I feel that there is an implied asterisk next to "American"
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
I feel that there is an implied asterisk next to "American"
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
But more importantly, it's one more stupid talking point that Trump can't use anymore.
If only more information comes out, Donald Trump will... stop lying?
unlikely
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
If only more information comes out, Donald Trump will... stop lying?
unlikely
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
To: State Department All Staff List
From: Hillary
Subject: Re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Bananas in the break room
FOX headline: HILLARY STOCKED STATE DEPT BREAK ROOM WITH RADIOACTIVE MATERIAL
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:42 PM on August 16, 2016 [32 favorites]
From: Hillary
Subject: Re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Bananas in the break room
FOX headline: HILLARY STOCKED STATE DEPT BREAK ROOM WITH RADIOACTIVE MATERIAL
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:42 PM on August 16, 2016 [32 favorites]
a new future built on our common culture and values as one American people
Remember, just ONE culture, anything else, get out. Oh, and that culture puts us all in buildings with "TRUMP" on them.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:44 PM on August 16, 2016
Remember, just ONE culture, anything else, get out. Oh, and that culture puts us all in buildings with "TRUMP" on them.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:44 PM on August 16, 2016
NYT: SOME SAY HILLARY TRIED TO POISON FEDERAL EMPLOYEES
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:44 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:44 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Trump assembles A-team on ag policy:
Donald Trump on Tuesday unveiled a list of agricultural advisers brimming with Republican heavy hitters, including Govs. Sam Brownback and Terry Branstad and several top farm-state lawmakers in a move that seemed aimed at quelling criticisms he is relying on a mostly third-string team.posted by kirkaracha at 4:45 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
The New York City real estate mogul’s rural and agriculture advisory committee — comprising 65 people — is a Who’s Who of farm policy, with five members of Congress, including the chairmen of the House and Senate agriculture committees, 10 current and former farm-state governors and two former GOP presidential nomination rivals, former Govs. Rick Perry and Jim Gilmore.
Slate: WE ATE 5000 BANANAS IN ONE SITTING. HERE'S WHAT HAPPENED NEXT.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:45 PM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:45 PM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
I'm going to ask Greg from IT to send around that link to the video on email ettiquitte again, and ask you to watch it again, particularly the section on the use of the "reply all" function.
At a former employer, we had a "communications committee" that was supposed to be standardizing video conferencing, buying conference room equipment, and such between remote offices, but instead wasted its time on nonsense like email etiquette presentations. They gave one at an all-hands session and the standout advice was "don't send emails with the subject line 'hi'."
Among the crew in our remote office, it had truly never occurred to us to ever do something so stupid, until the email etiquette presentation. Following the presentation, we all started using the subject line 'hi' for much of our communication. So it was quite effective in changing our behavior.
posted by zachlipton at 4:45 PM on August 16, 2016 [20 favorites]
At a former employer, we had a "communications committee" that was supposed to be standardizing video conferencing, buying conference room equipment, and such between remote offices, but instead wasted its time on nonsense like email etiquette presentations. They gave one at an all-hands session and the standout advice was "don't send emails with the subject line 'hi'."
Among the crew in our remote office, it had truly never occurred to us to ever do something so stupid, until the email etiquette presentation. Following the presentation, we all started using the subject line 'hi' for much of our communication. So it was quite effective in changing our behavior.
posted by zachlipton at 4:45 PM on August 16, 2016 [20 favorites]
BuzzFeed 22 BANANA HACKS THAT WILL CHANGE YOUR I'm sorry what thread is this anyway
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:46 PM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:46 PM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
NPR: Hillary's poisoning problem, and why it makes her unlikable.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 4:47 PM on August 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 4:47 PM on August 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
Democracy Now: CLINTON AND MONSANTO: LOVERS OR CRONIES?
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:47 PM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:47 PM on August 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
Jill Stein: Only a bad mother would allow bananas in an office breakroom.
posted by zachlipton at 4:50 PM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:50 PM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
> "You'd think the light-red districts would actually elect more moderate candidates, because they're each only 50.1% Republican or whatever, and the one deep blue district would elect an extreme leftist, because they're 100% Democratic."
But that's not really how gerrymandering works, if I understand it correctly. No one would gerrymander a 50.1% Republican district. The idea is to create safe districts. You create one which is 90% Democratic and three which are 60% Republican. You get a guaranteed 3-to-1 advantage even though there are actually more Democrats in the block of four when you put them together (210 Democrats for every 190 Republicans.)
So why does that create radicalization? Because in a completely safe district, the primary becomes more important than the general; whoever wins the primary is going to get it. And the highly motivated extremist fringe part of the party is far more likely to vote in the primary -- hence the reason politicians traditionally "pivot" to the center in the general, because they need to appeal to that fringe first to get in. When the primary becomes important, two important stops are eliminated -- the fear that a nutball candidate will lose in the general, which makes primary voters lean more to the center, and the actual chance that nutball candidate will lose in the general once they get in.
The risk of the system is that in a wave year after some demographic shifts, some of those 60% Republican districts might end up going the "wrong" way, while the 90% Democratic district certainly won't. But it's not a big risk. If it were, people wouldn't do it. It mostly works exactly the way it's intended.
So it doesn't create a bunch of light red districts that need an appealing centrist. It creates a bunch of significantly red districts that can be won by any lunatic who nabs the nomination.
(The logic obviously applies to that deep blue district, too, but there are (a) fewer of those districts, which is whole point of the way things have been gerrymandered now, and (b) a current major movement in the Republican party to deliberately target centrist candidates and replace them with ones on the far right; while such movements exist within the Democratic party and have effects, they are currently neither as extreme nor as widespread.)
posted by kyrademon at 4:50 PM on August 16, 2016 [33 favorites]
But that's not really how gerrymandering works, if I understand it correctly. No one would gerrymander a 50.1% Republican district. The idea is to create safe districts. You create one which is 90% Democratic and three which are 60% Republican. You get a guaranteed 3-to-1 advantage even though there are actually more Democrats in the block of four when you put them together (210 Democrats for every 190 Republicans.)
So why does that create radicalization? Because in a completely safe district, the primary becomes more important than the general; whoever wins the primary is going to get it. And the highly motivated extremist fringe part of the party is far more likely to vote in the primary -- hence the reason politicians traditionally "pivot" to the center in the general, because they need to appeal to that fringe first to get in. When the primary becomes important, two important stops are eliminated -- the fear that a nutball candidate will lose in the general, which makes primary voters lean more to the center, and the actual chance that nutball candidate will lose in the general once they get in.
The risk of the system is that in a wave year after some demographic shifts, some of those 60% Republican districts might end up going the "wrong" way, while the 90% Democratic district certainly won't. But it's not a big risk. If it were, people wouldn't do it. It mostly works exactly the way it's intended.
So it doesn't create a bunch of light red districts that need an appealing centrist. It creates a bunch of significantly red districts that can be won by any lunatic who nabs the nomination.
(The logic obviously applies to that deep blue district, too, but there are (a) fewer of those districts, which is whole point of the way things have been gerrymandered now, and (b) a current major movement in the Republican party to deliberately target centrist candidates and replace them with ones on the far right; while such movements exist within the Democratic party and have effects, they are currently neither as extreme nor as widespread.)
posted by kyrademon at 4:50 PM on August 16, 2016 [33 favorites]
Trump in "sleeps in a bed he doesn't own" shocker!
Sure they didn't just manage to transport a shovelfull of his native soil there?
Brimstone doesn't travel well.
posted by leotrotsky at 4:51 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Sure they didn't just manage to transport a shovelfull of his native soil there?
Brimstone doesn't travel well.
posted by leotrotsky at 4:51 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
haha I read that as red light districts and I was like whaaaat
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:53 PM on August 16, 2016 [33 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:53 PM on August 16, 2016 [33 favorites]
The Independent's assessment of the Facebook pledge:
Staff: What could we do to attract more minorities, women, and gays?
Ivanka: Let's steal some more ideas from the Democrats.
Staff: I know. What about a 180 stance on the Muslims and Mexicans. Claim you want to tear down the "wall" to build community centers. Visit a Mosque. Add more women to your staff and promise equal pay for equal jobs. Promise the gay community more money for AIDS research. Pledge to raise money for Planned Parenthood. Establish centers for runaways and victims of domestic abuse. Campaign vigorously against conversion therapy. Pledge your support to the Dreamers and promise immigration reform.
Donald: A Pledge. Good thinking. Facebook should do it. I, Donald J. Trump pledge to like everybody. "Like"-- get it?
[fake-alicious]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:59 PM on August 16, 2016
The so-called king of social media is hoping he can attract voters across the spectrum, including Hispanics, Latinos, African Americans, women and the LGBTQ community.Picture the brainstorming session that went into that pledge.
Staff: What could we do to attract more minorities, women, and gays?
Ivanka: Let's steal some more ideas from the Democrats.
Staff: I know. What about a 180 stance on the Muslims and Mexicans. Claim you want to tear down the "wall" to build community centers. Visit a Mosque. Add more women to your staff and promise equal pay for equal jobs. Promise the gay community more money for AIDS research. Pledge to raise money for Planned Parenthood. Establish centers for runaways and victims of domestic abuse. Campaign vigorously against conversion therapy. Pledge your support to the Dreamers and promise immigration reform.
Donald: A Pledge. Good thinking. Facebook should do it. I, Donald J. Trump pledge to like everybody. "Like"-- get it?
[fake-alicious]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:59 PM on August 16, 2016
JackFlash That was great. I wish it was in a more easily shareable format so I could shove it in lots of faces between now and November. Please take this imaginary invisible Extra Favorite.
posted by threeturtles at 5:02 PM on August 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by threeturtles at 5:02 PM on August 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
But that's not really how gerrymandering works, if I understand it correctly. No one would gerrymander a 50.1% Republican district. The idea is to create safe districts. You create one which is 90% Democratic and three which are 60% Republican. You get a guaranteed 3-to-1 advantage even though there are actually more Democrats in the block of four when you put them together (210 Democrats for every 190 Republicans.)
This. Like Michigan for example. 2012 the Democrats won 50-45 and only got 5 seats to the Republican's 9. Michigan is very carefully gerrymandered so there are five extremely safe D districts (the lowest margin of victory is D+24, the highest is D+63) and the Republican seats are all R+10-R+20.
For instance between 2012 (a high water mark for D voting) and 2014 (Ds blown out as typical in mid terms) there was a popular vote swing three points towards the Republicans and nothing literally happened. Not a seat changed hands. Nor will it. The minimum you need to see a seat swap from R towards a D is D+6 over the 2012 high water mark. That's past even Obama 2008 levels.
Democracy is fundamentally broken in the House. There's nothing left to be redeemed with the Republicans basically given forty seats for absolutely free.
posted by Talez at 5:04 PM on August 16, 2016 [18 favorites]
This. Like Michigan for example. 2012 the Democrats won 50-45 and only got 5 seats to the Republican's 9. Michigan is very carefully gerrymandered so there are five extremely safe D districts (the lowest margin of victory is D+24, the highest is D+63) and the Republican seats are all R+10-R+20.
For instance between 2012 (a high water mark for D voting) and 2014 (Ds blown out as typical in mid terms) there was a popular vote swing three points towards the Republicans and nothing literally happened. Not a seat changed hands. Nor will it. The minimum you need to see a seat swap from R towards a D is D+6 over the 2012 high water mark. That's past even Obama 2008 levels.
Democracy is fundamentally broken in the House. There's nothing left to be redeemed with the Republicans basically given forty seats for absolutely free.
posted by Talez at 5:04 PM on August 16, 2016 [18 favorites]
Breitbart: THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT BANANAGATE
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:06 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:06 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Good point about the nature of "safe seats." Poetic justice wins after all!
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:08 PM on August 16, 2016
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:08 PM on August 16, 2016
The Intercept_: Recovered emails reveal Clinton ties to Central American banana despots
posted by prize bull octorok at 5:09 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 5:09 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
The New York City real estate mogul’s rural and agriculture advisory committee — comprising 65 people — is a Who’s Who of farm policy, with five members of Congress, including the chairmen of the House and Senate agriculture committees, 10 current and former farm-state governors and two former GOP presidential nomination rivals, former Govs. Rick Perry and Jim Gilmore.
Are there even 65 farming multinationals for them to represent? They are going to have to fight for bribes!
posted by srboisvert at 5:11 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Are there even 65 farming multinationals for them to represent? They are going to have to fight for bribes!
posted by srboisvert at 5:11 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
So why does that create radicalization?
While it's plausible that it would, it turns out that all the real world evidence is against any substantial connection between polarization and gerrymandering. On my phone so can't link easily but there are accessible bits by Keith Poole, Hans Noel, I think Seth Market, and others out there on the intarwebs.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:19 PM on August 16, 2016
While it's plausible that it would, it turns out that all the real world evidence is against any substantial connection between polarization and gerrymandering. On my phone so can't link easily but there are accessible bits by Keith Poole, Hans Noel, I think Seth Market, and others out there on the intarwebs.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:19 PM on August 16, 2016
Donald J. Trump on Twitter:
posted by kirkaracha at 5:19 PM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
The failing @nytimes, which never spoke to me, keeps saying that I am saying to advisers that I will change. False, I am who I am-never said"I am who I am"? Now he's pandering for the Popeye vote.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:19 PM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
Seth Masket. Stoopid fones.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:19 PM on August 16, 2016
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:19 PM on August 16, 2016
Oliver Willis: 7 Reasons You Should Stop Comparing Donald Trump to Lex Luthor, NOW
"In 2000, Lex Luthor ran for President of the United States and won. He ran a strong, well-disciplined campaign and he didn’t let his past as a major villain get in the way."
posted by kingless at 5:20 PM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
"In 2000, Lex Luthor ran for President of the United States and won. He ran a strong, well-disciplined campaign and he didn’t let his past as a major villain get in the way."
posted by kingless at 5:20 PM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Way to go, Donnie! Never give up! Never surrender!
posted by kirkaracha at 5:20 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 5:20 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sure they didn't just manage to transport a shovelfull of his native soil there?
The real reason that Trump is refusing to release his tax returns is that he doesn't want to reveal that there's 200 years' worth.
posted by XMLicious at 5:21 PM on August 16, 2016 [20 favorites]
Is Election Day the day of Trump's Ascension? Is he locked in an office somewhere eating a trillion magic spider creatures? I've heard he's a germaphobe. The parallels are becoming frightening.
posted by wabbittwax at 5:29 PM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by wabbittwax at 5:29 PM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
Wait until Hillary combines her essence with those of Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, and Joe Biden and then rips Trump's heart out of his chest.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 5:31 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Spathe Cadet at 5:31 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
The parallels are becoming frightening.
What's even more frightening is that Sarah Michelle Gellar's a Republican. I think we're on our own when he rises.
Upon preview:
Wait until Hillary combines her essences with those of Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, and Joe Biden and then rips Trump's heart out of his chest.
Whew. Good point.
posted by mordax at 5:33 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
What's even more frightening is that Sarah Michelle Gellar's a Republican. I think we're on our own when he rises.
Upon preview:
Wait until Hillary combines her essences with those of Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, and Joe Biden and then rips Trump's heart out of his chest.
Whew. Good point.
posted by mordax at 5:33 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Is combining Big Bads from two different seasons of Buffy like a mixed metaphor?
posted by wabbittwax at 5:33 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by wabbittwax at 5:33 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sarah Michelle Gellar's a Republican.
WHAT THE FUCK BUFFY?
posted by wabbittwax at 5:34 PM on August 16, 2016 [29 favorites]
WHAT THE FUCK BUFFY?
posted by wabbittwax at 5:34 PM on August 16, 2016 [29 favorites]
Is Election Day the day of Trump's Ascension? Is he locked in an office somewhere eating a trillion magic spider creatures? I've heard he's a germaphobe. The parallels are becoming frightening.
Not a chance. Say what you will about Richard Wilkinson III, he was polite, friendly, and nice to people, even those he planned to devour alive about twelve hours hence.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:36 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Not a chance. Say what you will about Richard Wilkinson III, he was polite, friendly, and nice to people, even those he planned to devour alive about twelve hours hence.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:36 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Sarah Michelle Gellar's a Republican
She supports Hillary, though.
(She was apparently a registered Republican, but has always been on the liberal end of that -- pro gay marriage, etc. Maybe Trump was a step too far finally)
posted by thefoxgod at 5:36 PM on August 16, 2016 [31 favorites]
She supports Hillary, though.
(She was apparently a registered Republican, but has always been on the liberal end of that -- pro gay marriage, etc. Maybe Trump was a step too far finally)
posted by thefoxgod at 5:36 PM on August 16, 2016 [31 favorites]
(She was apparently a registered Republican, but has always been on the liberal end of that -- pro gay marriage, etc. Maybe Trump was a step too far finally)
Ooh. Good catch. She was an open supporter of McCain last I checked, and that's basically the last time I cared what she thought about anything.
posted by mordax at 5:38 PM on August 16, 2016
Ooh. Good catch. She was an open supporter of McCain last I checked, and that's basically the last time I cared what she thought about anything.
posted by mordax at 5:38 PM on August 16, 2016
Phew. Thought we might have a rogue slayer on our hands. Can't imagine anything more dangerous. ... Oh, right, Trump.
posted by wabbittwax at 5:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by wabbittwax at 5:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
"In 2000, Lex Luthor ran for President of the United States and won. He ran a strong, well-disciplined campaign and he didn’t let his past as a major villain get in the way."
I still have my Vote Lex buttons. I don't care what anyone says, he saved Gotham & Metropolis. Not to mention all the good Team Luthor did.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I still have my Vote Lex buttons. I don't care what anyone says, he saved Gotham & Metropolis. Not to mention all the good Team Luthor did.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oliver Willis: 7 Reasons You Should Stop Comparing Donald Trump to Lex Luthor, NOW
Good god, who's doing that? Trump isn't even comparable to J. Jonah Jameson.
posted by rifflesby at 5:40 PM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
Good god, who's doing that? Trump isn't even comparable to J. Jonah Jameson.
posted by rifflesby at 5:40 PM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
Good god, who's doing that?
I believe the more appropriate comparison would be Bruno Mannheim, especially since that gives Putin the nod as Darkseid, and I have officially been following this thread too much. Must get fresh air or sleep or something.
posted by mordax at 5:45 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I believe the more appropriate comparison would be Bruno Mannheim, especially since that gives Putin the nod as Darkseid, and I have officially been following this thread too much. Must get fresh air or sleep or something.
posted by mordax at 5:45 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Lex Luthor was right for Presidential Politics in 2000, but in 2016, Marvel has something even betterbadder: Vote Loki.
(still in some ways better than Trump)
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:46 PM on August 16, 2016
(still in some ways better than Trump)
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:46 PM on August 16, 2016
This Indie Jewelry Brand Wrote A VERY Bold Letter To Ivanka Trump
On Tuesday evening, the jewelry brand tweeted a picture of a wrapped box with a note on official Lady Grey stationery, addressed to the daughter of GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump. It read: "Dear Ivanka, thank you so much for your web order! We're happy to let you know that the proceeds of your sale have been generously donated to the American Immigration Council, the Everytown for Gun Safety Organization, and the Hillary Clinton campaign. We hope you enjoy your new Lady Grey [Helix Ear Cuff]posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:47 PM on August 16, 2016 [39 favorites]
Wait until Hillary combines her essences with those of Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, and Joe Biden and then rips Trump's heart out of his chest.
who is xander in this metaphor
choose carefully
posted by murphy slaw at 5:47 PM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
who is xander in this metaphor
choose carefully
posted by murphy slaw at 5:47 PM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
Chris Matthews. Obvs.
posted by wabbittwax at 5:48 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by wabbittwax at 5:48 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
We're happy to let you know that the proceeds of your sale have been generously donated to the American Immigration Council, the Everytown for Gun Safety Organization, and the Hillary Clinton campaign. We hope you enjoy your new Lady Grey [Helix Ear Cuff]
That's great, but a company can't donate to the campaign unless they gave it to a super PAC.
posted by zachlipton at 5:50 PM on August 16, 2016
That's great, but a company can't donate to the campaign unless they gave it to a super PAC.
posted by zachlipton at 5:50 PM on August 16, 2016
a company can't donate to the campaign unless they gave it to a super PAC.
Not directly, but the owners can certainly say, "profit from this sale is $X; we will personally donated $X to these causes," as long as X doesn't bump them over the legal limit for individual donations.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:56 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Not directly, but the owners can certainly say, "profit from this sale is $X; we will personally donated $X to these causes," as long as X doesn't bump them over the legal limit for individual donations.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:56 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's a pedantic distinction, the candidate's Super PAC is effectively the same as the campaign, and the FEC is completely and utterly incapable of enforcing what little remains of election law in this country anyway.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:00 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:00 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
An update from the provinces: After Trump sign is stolen, supporter builds a wall. No word on whether the barbed wire is being paid for by dirty upstate liberals.
posted by dis_integration at 6:02 PM on August 16, 2016
posted by dis_integration at 6:02 PM on August 16, 2016
Secret Life of Gravy's link made me happy.
It is tempting to get down in the mud with Trump & Co. and refreshing to see the higher ground taken so graciously.
posted by hilaryjade at 6:03 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
It is tempting to get down in the mud with Trump & Co. and refreshing to see the higher ground taken so graciously.
posted by hilaryjade at 6:03 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Secret Life's link made me buy jewelry I don't need.
posted by bird internet at 6:13 PM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by bird internet at 6:13 PM on August 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
There is also a website listed, but if you follow the URL (haroldbornsteinmd.com), sometimes it takes you to cdn.freefarcy.com, a blank page that asks if you want to upload an update to a Flash program onto your computer (the domain name, freefarcy.com, is still for sale. No, I can’t explain that.) If you decline, it does so anyway and, based on the response of the security system on my computer, the “program” on the doctor’s supposed website is a virus.
Donald Trump Tests Positive for Everything, According to His Own Doctor (Newsweek)
posted by salix at 6:32 PM on August 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
Donald Trump Tests Positive for Everything, According to His Own Doctor (Newsweek)
posted by salix at 6:32 PM on August 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
I'm thinking to keep up with this super-drama season, we're going to need a full-on A Few Good Men meltdown during the debate. "You're damn right I'm racist!" ranty monologue where he admits everything and more, and it was for our own damn good but we're too whiny to be grateful.
While the whole country simultaneously says "did that just happen?"
posted by ctmf at 6:37 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
While the whole country simultaneously says "did that just happen?"
posted by ctmf at 6:37 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
[I'm too lazy to follow-through and write the monologue parody, though]
posted by ctmf at 6:38 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ctmf at 6:38 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
"You want the Trump? You can't handle the Trump!"
posted by Artw at 6:40 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:40 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Donald Trump Tests Positive for Everything, According to His Own Doctor (Newsweek)
Like so many other horrible Trump things, that letter showed up when people were still treating Trump as “ha ha” funny. This seems like a fine time to revisit it.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:40 PM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Like so many other horrible Trump things, that letter showed up when people were still treating Trump as “ha ha” funny. This seems like a fine time to revisit it.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:40 PM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
"Son, we live in a world that needs walls."
posted by J.K. Seazer at 6:41 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by J.K. Seazer at 6:41 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ugh that barbed wire fencing did not make me happy-- what an ugly thing to do to your property. I pity the neighbors.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:57 PM on August 16, 2016
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:57 PM on August 16, 2016
I just got a fascinating couple of emails from HFA
Email 1: Bog standard plea for money because OMG we're not raising enough, everyone panic! I get like one of these a day from them.
Email 2: Same subject line as Email 1, except with UPDATE appended, the text of Email 1 quoted underneath the new text, and then an even more pointed we-only-need-x-more-people-to-donate-in-$city solicitation, as if the sender had just hit "reply all" on the original email.
I'm finding the mimicking of actual casual email by the campaign(s?) to be weirdly interesting. Like, subject lines are never in sentence case and are usually super vague. I have a colleague who used to be an OFA field organizer and he said that it is known that the best subject line for a fundraising email is just "hi".
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:03 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
Email 1: Bog standard plea for money because OMG we're not raising enough, everyone panic! I get like one of these a day from them.
Email 2: Same subject line as Email 1, except with UPDATE appended, the text of Email 1 quoted underneath the new text, and then an even more pointed we-only-need-x-more-people-to-donate-in-$city solicitation, as if the sender had just hit "reply all" on the original email.
I'm finding the mimicking of actual casual email by the campaign(s?) to be weirdly interesting. Like, subject lines are never in sentence case and are usually super vague. I have a colleague who used to be an OFA field organizer and he said that it is known that the best subject line for a fundraising email is just "hi".
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:03 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'm thinking to keep up with this super-drama season, we're going to need a full-on A Few Good Men meltdown during the debate. "You're damn right I'm racist!" ranty monologue where he admits everything and more, and it was for our own damn good but we're too whiny to be grateful.I truly and honestly hope this doesn't happen, chiefly because I don't think I could stand seeing his surrogates and supporters walking it back over the following several days' news cycles, explaining that he was obviously "being sarcastic" (but not that sarcastic..)
posted by Nerd of the North at 7:03 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
what an ugly thing to do to your propertycountry. A perfect symbol for Trumpism.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:04 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:04 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm thinking to keep up with this super-drama season, we're going to need a full-on A Few Good Men meltdown during the debate. "You're damn right I'm racist!" ranty monologue where he admits everything and more, and it was for our own damn good but we're too whiny to be grateful.
I saw this tweet earlier today (it's about the Trump deposition transcript) and started thinking about A Few Good Men links. It occurred to me: has anybody actually tried asking Trump if heordered the code red actually wanted the job? Maybe he'll just admit everything if we just ask him enough times.
posted by zachlipton at 7:06 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I saw this tweet earlier today (it's about the Trump deposition transcript) and started thinking about A Few Good Men links. It occurred to me: has anybody actually tried asking Trump if he
posted by zachlipton at 7:06 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I did some fact-checking on the paragraph on veterans from Trump's About page on his website:
This is weird. Later in the same paragraph Trump claims credit for the success of the parade on November 11, 1995, which was Veterans Day. I couldn't find a reference to another 1995 New York City Veterans Day parade before Veterans Day in 1995.
Maybe he meant 1994? 2014 NYC Veterans Day Parade appears to show more than 100 spectators. A New York Times article on the 1995 parade says, "last year there were so few spectators that the police did not even estimate the crowd" and
According to the New York Times, "Donald Trump, a nonveteran, agreed to throw in $200,000 as well as raise money from his friends, in exchange for being named grand marshal." Also, "Many veterans were angry that organizers had agreed to name Mr. Trump, who is not a veteran, as grand marshal in exchange for his contribution of $200,000 and help in raising additional funds." (The 1995 Veterans Day Parade was dubbed the Nation's Parade.)
The New York Times said there were 500,000 spectators. In 1997 he told a New Yorker writer, "O.K., I see this story says a half million spectators. But, trust me, I heard a million four."
Searching Google for "trump 'Joint Chiefs of Staff' 'Secretary of Defense' lunch 1995" didn't result in any results I saw that weren't quotes from his About page. William Perry was the secretary of defense in 1995. According to the New Yorker in May 1997, "Trump has engaged in frank and fruitful exchanges of viewpoints" with "superpower leaders and geopolitical strategists" that include William Perry and "the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff." (Also--and this may be his greatest transgression--he calls himself "The Trumpster.") Since I couldn't find any independent confirmation and the New Yorker uses the exact "entire Joint Chiefs of Staff" phrase, my suspicion is that they took his word for it.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:07 PM on August 16, 2016 [17 favorites]
In 1995, the fiftieth anniversary of World War II, only 100 spectators watched New York City’s Veteran[s] Day Parade. It was an insult to all veterans.
This is weird. Later in the same paragraph Trump claims credit for the success of the parade on November 11, 1995, which was Veterans Day. I couldn't find a reference to another 1995 New York City Veterans Day parade before Veterans Day in 1995.
Maybe he meant 1994? 2014 NYC Veterans Day Parade appears to show more than 100 spectators. A New York Times article on the 1995 parade says, "last year there were so few spectators that the police did not even estimate the crowd" and
The holiday resurged again after World War II, only to fade as the veterans died, retired or moved. By the 1980's [sic], fewer than 2,000 veterans were marching in the parades. Only in the last three years has participation grown again, as Vietnam veterans have become more active.
Approached by Mayor Rudy Giuliani and the chief of New York City’s FBI office, Mr. Trump agreed to lead as Grand Marshall [sic] a second parade later that year. Mr. Trump made a $1 million matching donation to finance the Nation’s Day Parade.
According to the New York Times, "Donald Trump, a nonveteran, agreed to throw in $200,000 as well as raise money from his friends, in exchange for being named grand marshal." Also, "Many veterans were angry that organizers had agreed to name Mr. Trump, who is not a veteran, as grand marshal in exchange for his contribution of $200,000 and help in raising additional funds." (The 1995 Veterans Day Parade was dubbed the Nation's Parade.)
On Saturday, November 11th, over 1.4 million watched as Mr. Trump marched down Fifth Avenue with more than 25,000 veterans, some dressed in their vintage uniforms.
The New York Times said there were 500,000 spectators. In 1997 he told a New Yorker writer, "O.K., I see this story says a half million spectators. But, trust me, I heard a million four."
A month later, Mr. Trump was honored in the Pentagon during a lunch with the Secretary of Defense and the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Searching Google for "trump 'Joint Chiefs of Staff' 'Secretary of Defense' lunch 1995" didn't result in any results I saw that weren't quotes from his About page. William Perry was the secretary of defense in 1995. According to the New Yorker in May 1997, "Trump has engaged in frank and fruitful exchanges of viewpoints" with "superpower leaders and geopolitical strategists" that include William Perry and "the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff." (Also--and this may be his greatest transgression--he calls himself "The Trumpster.") Since I couldn't find any independent confirmation and the New Yorker uses the exact "entire Joint Chiefs of Staff" phrase, my suspicion is that they took his word for it.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:07 PM on August 16, 2016 [17 favorites]
If Clinton is elected President this fall, the Trump voters really want out- in that case 61% say they'd support seceding from the United States, to only 29% who would stick around.For the sake of the many reasonable Texans out there and the state's vulnerable minority populations I would never wish for Texas to actually secede. But I wouldn't mind if the 61% of poll-responding Trump supporters above started making "#Texit" a thing so that we could mock them more directly.
posted by Nerd of the North at 7:10 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
For the sake of the many reasonable Texans out there and the state's vulnerable minority populations I would never wish for Texas to actually secede.
Couldn't you guys just move over to AZ and NM, for the rest of us? You know you want to anyway.
posted by bongo_x at 7:12 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Couldn't you guys just move over to AZ and NM, for the rest of us? You know you want to anyway.
posted by bongo_x at 7:12 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
The worst emails I get are from the DCCC. Some real example subject lines (capitalization preserved):
"we're DOOMED" (because Republicans outraised them in some period)
"BRUTAL defeat"
"CRUSHING defeat"
"DISASTROUS news"
"DEVASTATING NEWS"
"WORST NEWS POSSIBLE"
"EARTH SHATTERING PROBLEM"
"ALL HOPE IS LOST"
posted by thefoxgod at 7:13 PM on August 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
"we're DOOMED" (because Republicans outraised them in some period)
"BRUTAL defeat"
"CRUSHING defeat"
"DISASTROUS news"
"DEVASTATING NEWS"
"WORST NEWS POSSIBLE"
"EARTH SHATTERING PROBLEM"
"ALL HOPE IS LOST"
posted by thefoxgod at 7:13 PM on August 16, 2016 [14 favorites]
So the DCCC has finally noticed what happened in 2010 and 2014?
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:18 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:18 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
Trump is very upset about Hillary's lack of compassion for African-Americans. [real]
posted by Spathe Cadet at 7:18 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Spathe Cadet at 7:18 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
this speech is a direct pitch to black people...WTF
posted by zutalors! at 7:18 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zutalors! at 7:18 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
The blowback from Trump either dying or becoming otherwise medically incapacitated would be terrifying in about the same way as him losing, except instead of Clinton having 'rigged the election' it'll be her having 'tried to assassinate Trump', which fits oh so well into a couple other conspiracy theories already bouncing around. Is there any chance he would ever admit to a medical infirmity when there is an evil woman to be blamed? What if he actually dies, and it falls to whatever remnants of his campaign to explain what happened? Would it actually matter if they deny it was an attack on him with reality being a very malleable thing right now?
Speaking of health, being president is probably one of the most stressful and grinding political positions in the world, being effectively on-call 24 hours a day for at least 4 years, plus near-constant travel while maintaining the running of the nation, but I don't think that has entered into his mind at all, and if it has, it's that he can probably push it off to Pence if anything inconveniences or bores him. Like, Trump seems like a profoundly lazy, self-centered person at his core, regardless of any act, and what would Trump do with a 3 am phone call about a complicated coup in some corner of the world? Probably tell them to fuck off and roll back over to sleep.
posted by neonrev at 7:23 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Speaking of health, being president is probably one of the most stressful and grinding political positions in the world, being effectively on-call 24 hours a day for at least 4 years, plus near-constant travel while maintaining the running of the nation, but I don't think that has entered into his mind at all, and if it has, it's that he can probably push it off to Pence if anything inconveniences or bores him. Like, Trump seems like a profoundly lazy, self-centered person at his core, regardless of any act, and what would Trump do with a 3 am phone call about a complicated coup in some corner of the world? Probably tell them to fuck off and roll back over to sleep.
posted by neonrev at 7:23 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Scripted Trump is scripted.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:24 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:24 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
He's speaking in West Bend, which is like 35 miles north of Milwaukee and 95% white, to rant about how he's better for black people. He's pandering all right, to whites in the suburbs who want to be reassured they aren't racist for supporting him.
posted by zachlipton at 7:24 PM on August 16, 2016 [42 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:24 PM on August 16, 2016 [42 favorites]
"The Democratic Party has taken African-Americans for granted for decades, and look how they're doing."
s/Democratic/Republican/
s/African-Americans/racists/
posted by J.K. Seazer at 7:25 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
s/Democratic/Republican/
s/African-Americans/racists/
posted by J.K. Seazer at 7:25 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Now I want to go to one of these and chant for him to read The Snake.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:27 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:27 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
From Daniel Dale: Whoa: Donald Trump says he is seeking "peaceful regime change" in America.
posted by Existential Dread at 7:30 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Existential Dread at 7:30 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I know I'm supposed to be scared of this speech but both Trump and the crowd are so low energy and the focus on African American voters is just weird nonsense.
posted by zutalors! at 7:31 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zutalors! at 7:31 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
The self-proclaimed billionaire wants to make America wealthy again.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:32 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:32 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
omigod
@KevinMKruse
This is like watching Ron Burgundy deliver a George Wallace speech.
posted by Existential Dread at 7:33 PM on August 16, 2016 [25 favorites]
@KevinMKruse
This is like watching Ron Burgundy deliver a George Wallace speech.
posted by Existential Dread at 7:33 PM on August 16, 2016 [25 favorites]
[real] "the future [Clinton] offers is the most pessimistic I can imagine"
posted by Spathe Cadet at 7:33 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Spathe Cadet at 7:33 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Trump, who declined to speak at the NAACP convention, sent no representative to speak at the National Urban League conference, and whose own convention literally had only 18 black delegates, calls Hillary a bigot, blames Democrats on inner city problems.
Can a person die from rolling their eyes too much?
posted by airish at 7:35 PM on August 16, 2016 [39 favorites]
Can a person die from rolling their eyes too much?
posted by airish at 7:35 PM on August 16, 2016 [39 favorites]
Wait a minute--did he just say he's going to implement strong enforcement of federal laws? So much for states' rights.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 7:37 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by J.K. Seazer at 7:37 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
The self-proclaimed billionaire wants to make America wealthy again.
The guy who trademarked "you're fired" just said he would protect every American job.
posted by zutalors! at 7:38 PM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
The guy who trademarked "you're fired" just said he would protect every American job.
posted by zutalors! at 7:38 PM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
He seems to be adapting to the teleprompters, too bad they won't be an option in the debates.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:38 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:38 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
These have been Republican talking points re communities of color for aaaaages. And every year that said communities collectively go, "Nah, we're good, and that's racist" the more the GOP doubles down on paternalistic "but we know what's better for you, why won't you listen to uuuus when we talk down to you????" whining.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:38 PM on August 16, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:38 PM on August 16, 2016 [17 favorites]
Can a person die from rolling their eyes too much?
Al Gore is still here after the 2000 elections so...
posted by zutalors! at 7:38 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
Wait a minute--did he just say he's going to implement strong enforcement of federal laws? So much for states' rights.
Federal Laws that restrict brown, female or queer people? Totally okay with them.
Federal Laws that restrict white people, especially when it comes to personally subjugating brown, female or queer people? Totally not okay government over-reach.
This is the mindset.
posted by neonrev at 7:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
Federal Laws that restrict brown, female or queer people? Totally okay with them.
Federal Laws that restrict white people, especially when it comes to personally subjugating brown, female or queer people? Totally not okay government over-reach.
This is the mindset.
posted by neonrev at 7:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
I don't want to distract from the bloviating, but what's with the candy cane tie?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:42 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:42 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
You can't always get what you want...
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:46 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:46 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
So in a week or so, are we going to be reading that support for Trump among white supremacists is down 4%?
posted by Spathe Cadet at 7:50 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Spathe Cadet at 7:50 PM on August 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
He's trying to hypnotize us?
posted by mokeydraws at 7:53 PM on August 16, 2016
posted by mokeydraws at 7:53 PM on August 16, 2016
Who exactly was this speech for? Just using the term African American multiple times isn't going to summon that vote. As a POC I'm not thinking he suddenly cares about issues pertaining to me.
posted by mokeydraws at 7:55 PM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by mokeydraws at 7:55 PM on August 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
The guests on MSNBC are destroying Trump. Its great.
Fuck Donald Trump. He is scum. You'll never get my vote you lying piece of shit. Every single time he even MENTIONS black people from now on, I am going to call up a relative and make sure he loses one more black vote. Feel free to remind me. I'm going to cut into that 1%.
posted by cashman at 7:56 PM on August 16, 2016 [47 favorites]
Fuck Donald Trump. He is scum. You'll never get my vote you lying piece of shit. Every single time he even MENTIONS black people from now on, I am going to call up a relative and make sure he loses one more black vote. Feel free to remind me. I'm going to cut into that 1%.
posted by cashman at 7:56 PM on August 16, 2016 [47 favorites]
The guests on MSNBC are destroying Trump. Its great.
Gary Kasparov!
posted by zutalors! at 7:57 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Whenever Trump speaks, it reminds me of Charles Foster Kane running for governor.......
KANE - [I entered this campaign]...with one purpose only, to point out and make public the dishonesty, the downright villainy of Boss Jim W. Gettys' political machine, now in complete control of the government of this state. I made no campaign promises, because until a few weeks ago, I had no hope of being elected. Now however, I am something more than a hope. Jim Gettys, Jim Gettys has something less than a chance. Every straw vote, every independent poll shows that I'll be elected. Now I can afford to make some promises. The working man, the working man and the slum child know they can expect my best efforts in their interests. The nation's ordinary citizens know that I'll do everything in my power to protect the underprivileged, the underpaid, and the underfed.
..........
KANE - Well, I'd make my promises now if I weren't too busy arranging to keep them. Here's one promise I'll make and Boss Jim Gettys knows I'll keep it. My first official act as Governor of this state will be to appoint a special District Attorney to arrange for the indictment, prosecution and conviction of Boss Jim W. Gettys!
posted by lampshade at 8:00 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
KANE - [I entered this campaign]...with one purpose only, to point out and make public the dishonesty, the downright villainy of Boss Jim W. Gettys' political machine, now in complete control of the government of this state. I made no campaign promises, because until a few weeks ago, I had no hope of being elected. Now however, I am something more than a hope. Jim Gettys, Jim Gettys has something less than a chance. Every straw vote, every independent poll shows that I'll be elected. Now I can afford to make some promises. The working man, the working man and the slum child know they can expect my best efforts in their interests. The nation's ordinary citizens know that I'll do everything in my power to protect the underprivileged, the underpaid, and the underfed.
..........
KANE - Well, I'd make my promises now if I weren't too busy arranging to keep them. Here's one promise I'll make and Boss Jim Gettys knows I'll keep it. My first official act as Governor of this state will be to appoint a special District Attorney to arrange for the indictment, prosecution and conviction of Boss Jim W. Gettys!
posted by lampshade at 8:00 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Funny you should compare him to Kane - that's his favorite movie!
posted by airish at 8:02 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by airish at 8:02 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm pretty sure that every time Trump says "African-American" (which he did over and over again tonight), he's got a little internal monologue going "yep I said the right thing; see how politically correct I can be?"
posted by zachlipton at 8:04 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:04 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
So in a week or so, are we going to be reading that support for Trump among white supremacists is down 4%?
Naaahh, of course not. White supremacists know that he doesn't actually mean all that stuff; he's just saying it to get votes. In other news, the difference between "political correctness" and "saying stuff to get votes" is that you actually mean the former.
Who exactly was this speech for?
zachlipton's comment reminded me of a comment I made two weeks ago: "Think about the thousands of times he's claimed to love China, or the infamous Taco Bowl Tweet where he said "I love Hispanics!" None of these statements are ever directed at the people he is talking about, but at the people he is talking to. And since the two groups of people are almost completely mutually exclusive, his audience has no evidence to judge these statements but the man's word itself."
Trump's goal with this speech/pivot/whatever is to coax wayward Republicans back into the fold, so they can tell themselves, "Oh, thank God, of course Trump's not racist, phew!"
posted by J.K. Seazer at 8:06 PM on August 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
Naaahh, of course not. White supremacists know that he doesn't actually mean all that stuff; he's just saying it to get votes. In other news, the difference between "political correctness" and "saying stuff to get votes" is that you actually mean the former.
Who exactly was this speech for?
zachlipton's comment reminded me of a comment I made two weeks ago: "Think about the thousands of times he's claimed to love China, or the infamous Taco Bowl Tweet where he said "I love Hispanics!" None of these statements are ever directed at the people he is talking about, but at the people he is talking to. And since the two groups of people are almost completely mutually exclusive, his audience has no evidence to judge these statements but the man's word itself."
Trump's goal with this speech/pivot/whatever is to coax wayward Republicans back into the fold, so they can tell themselves, "Oh, thank God, of course Trump's not racist, phew!"
posted by J.K. Seazer at 8:06 PM on August 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
that's his favorite movie!
That is interesting.....and not that surprising. I did not know that about The Donald.
Knowing that now, it appears he is modeling his campaign on the parts of the script that fit the narrative he wants to project as being some 'man of the people'.
posted by lampshade at 8:07 PM on August 16, 2016
That is interesting.....and not that surprising. I did not know that about The Donald.
Knowing that now, it appears he is modeling his campaign on the parts of the script that fit the narrative he wants to project as being some 'man of the people'.
posted by lampshade at 8:07 PM on August 16, 2016
I missed the live speech in Wisconsin... is there anything actually entertaining that I should listen to, or is it enough to conclude "he threw around a lot of lies, told everyone how great he is" (but I repeat myself) "and announced that he will fix all of our problems through the amazing power of Declarations Of Awesomeness, because detailed plans are for loser geeks?"
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:08 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:08 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Citizen Kane? Sure, he knows how to steal from the best. But it's interesting in that article that he doesn't understand the meaning of "Rosebud", so his dying word inevitably will be "Me".
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:08 PM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:08 PM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
The token Republican talking head on MSNBC can't even bring herself to support Trump.
posted by yesster at 8:22 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by yesster at 8:22 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Here’s the room where Trump said he will start competing for African-American votes
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:30 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:30 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Is there a transcript? Google is unhelpful, and this sounds like a fun disaster to read.
posted by Going To Maine at 8:33 PM on August 16, 2016
posted by Going To Maine at 8:33 PM on August 16, 2016
Trump campaign to air first TV ads starting Friday:
More than 100 days after he became the presumptive Republican nominee and with fewer than 90 days until the election, Donald Trump is planning to launch his first barrage of television ads in the battleground states starting this Friday.posted by kirkaracha at 8:34 PM on August 16, 2016
Trump will begin by airing ads in five key states: Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, North Carolina and Virginia, Trump spokeswoman Hope Hicks confirmed.
Trump's goal with this speech/pivot/whatever is to coax wayward Republicans back into the fold, so they can tell themselves, "Oh, thank God, of course Trump's not racist, phew!"
And in that context, the rally's location in a nearly all-white town north of Milwaukee is even more significant. He's saying to worried voters looking at the riots 35 miles or so away that he'll solve this problem, not with a decades-long investment in communities, schools, jobs, police and criminal justice reform, beefing up DOJ's Civil Rights Division, etc..., but quickly and simply with more police, "the best" judges and prosecutors, strong enforcement of laws, and trade barriers. He's using the riots as metaphorical scenery and promising he can fix it, without anybody having to do any hard work or address any of the problems in their communities.
posted by zachlipton at 8:34 PM on August 16, 2016 [22 favorites]
And in that context, the rally's location in a nearly all-white town north of Milwaukee is even more significant. He's saying to worried voters looking at the riots 35 miles or so away that he'll solve this problem, not with a decades-long investment in communities, schools, jobs, police and criminal justice reform, beefing up DOJ's Civil Rights Division, etc..., but quickly and simply with more police, "the best" judges and prosecutors, strong enforcement of laws, and trade barriers. He's using the riots as metaphorical scenery and promising he can fix it, without anybody having to do any hard work or address any of the problems in their communities.
posted by zachlipton at 8:34 PM on August 16, 2016 [22 favorites]
"Peaceful regime change" seems to be taking off as a particularly wtf line.
posted by spitbull at 8:37 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 8:37 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Daniel Dale: Incredible. At Trump's rally about black people, one of the warm-up speakers was a state senator who wants to ignore Martin Luther King Day.
That would be Wisconsin State Senator Glenn Grothman, who spoke openly about how the photo ID will help defeat Hillary.
posted by airish at 8:38 PM on August 16, 2016 [20 favorites]
That would be Wisconsin State Senator Glenn Grothman, who spoke openly about how the photo ID will help defeat Hillary.
posted by airish at 8:38 PM on August 16, 2016 [20 favorites]
OMG! We just hit Godwin's Law! OK, like 200 post ago but never the less. Wow!
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 8:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 8:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
@JDiamond1 (Jeremy Diamond):
"Does he know that this isn’t Milwaukee?" one Trump supporters says as Trump mentions "here in Milwaukee" for umpteenth time
posted by salix at 8:41 PM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
"Does he know that this isn’t Milwaukee?" one Trump supporters says as Trump mentions "here in Milwaukee" for umpteenth time
posted by salix at 8:41 PM on August 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
Michael Moore/Alternet: Trump Is Self-Sabotaging His Campaign Because He Never Really Wanted the Job in the First Place
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:47 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
He's running for president to get a better deal for "The Apprentice."[fake?]
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:47 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
A few weeks ago, Moore was saying that there's no way Clinton will win.
posted by roll truck roll at 8:48 PM on August 16, 2016 [30 favorites]
posted by roll truck roll at 8:48 PM on August 16, 2016 [30 favorites]
As Ana Marie Cox noted, they basically took a standard Trump speech and search-replaced "factory workers" with "African Americans". That will go down well.
posted by holgate at 8:53 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by holgate at 8:53 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
He's running for president to get a better deal for "The Apprentice." [fake?]
I don't believe he has enough self-control to be stealthy and covert. But I've been wrong before.
posted by puddledork at 8:55 PM on August 16, 2016
I don't believe he has enough self-control to be stealthy and covert. But I've been wrong before.
posted by puddledork at 8:55 PM on August 16, 2016
A few weeks ago, Moore was saying that there's no way Clinton will win.
guys I don’t think Michael Moore is very good.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:01 PM on August 16, 2016 [38 favorites]
guys I don’t think Michael Moore is very good.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:01 PM on August 16, 2016 [38 favorites]
"Trump accuses Clinton of 'bigotry' toward African-Americans"
That moment when you think "oh God, someone's going to use the 'you keep saying that word' line from the Princess Bride again...and then realize it's never been more appropriate.
posted by uosuaq at 9:03 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
That moment when you think "oh God, someone's going to use the 'you keep saying that word' line from the Princess Bride again...and then realize it's never been more appropriate.
posted by uosuaq at 9:03 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
guys I don’t think Michael Moore is very good.
Yeah, maybe we could go ahead and not link to the shitty views of shitty people who aren't really involved in the race. I mean, I really never hear about Scott Adams or Michael Moore anywhere except metafilter threads, why bother giving irrelevant people so much attention? There's lots of relevant people with shitty views to discuss, like Glenn Gortham, mentioned above.
posted by skewed at 9:06 PM on August 16, 2016 [17 favorites]
Yeah, maybe we could go ahead and not link to the shitty views of shitty people who aren't really involved in the race. I mean, I really never hear about Scott Adams or Michael Moore anywhere except metafilter threads, why bother giving irrelevant people so much attention? There's lots of relevant people with shitty views to discuss, like Glenn Gortham, mentioned above.
posted by skewed at 9:06 PM on August 16, 2016 [17 favorites]
>Thinking a bit more... I guess gerrymandering shouldn't lead to these "can't even move one inch to the left in their primaries without being clobbered by a racist fascist" results, should it? Because gerrymandering means that you get 10 very light red districts and concentrate your opponent's voters into one very deep blue district.
It's still a safe Republican District, though, and that is the key.
It is the type of district where, no matter who wins the Republican primary, that person will win the overall election.
In the Republican primary, there is no incentive to favor more moderate candidates, because literally whoever the winning R candidate is from the primary, will win the final election. (And keep in mind that not all candidates are picked through a primary election process. Sometimes they are picked through some kind of a party committee process, and the party oftentimes wants to put the right-most candidate in place who they feel can carry the general election. In a safe district, that right-most person can be very far right, indeed. That is how we got Jason Smith, our 8th District Congressman in Missouri. Once the party picked him, the deal was sealed.)
The upshot is, when you have a lot of safe districts, you end up with a lot of extreme electeds. Not ALL of them will be extreme, of course, but a higher percentage will than if more of the districts were more competitive.
It's interesting, because we hear a lot about the "polarization of Congress" the "polarization of American" and so on. But I don't know that gerrymandering is ever really identified as a root cause of that.
Because if you think about it, the extreme gerrymandering and the polarization of Congress have gone pretty much hand-in-hand over the same time scale.
There always has been gerrymandering, of course, but over the past several decades the data analysis tools required to understand voter patterns down to a pretty microscopic level have been developed, and the resulting gerrymanders have become more and more effective over time.
posted by flug at 9:26 PM on August 16, 2016 [22 favorites]
It's still a safe Republican District, though, and that is the key.
It is the type of district where, no matter who wins the Republican primary, that person will win the overall election.
In the Republican primary, there is no incentive to favor more moderate candidates, because literally whoever the winning R candidate is from the primary, will win the final election. (And keep in mind that not all candidates are picked through a primary election process. Sometimes they are picked through some kind of a party committee process, and the party oftentimes wants to put the right-most candidate in place who they feel can carry the general election. In a safe district, that right-most person can be very far right, indeed. That is how we got Jason Smith, our 8th District Congressman in Missouri. Once the party picked him, the deal was sealed.)
The upshot is, when you have a lot of safe districts, you end up with a lot of extreme electeds. Not ALL of them will be extreme, of course, but a higher percentage will than if more of the districts were more competitive.
It's interesting, because we hear a lot about the "polarization of Congress" the "polarization of American" and so on. But I don't know that gerrymandering is ever really identified as a root cause of that.
Because if you think about it, the extreme gerrymandering and the polarization of Congress have gone pretty much hand-in-hand over the same time scale.
There always has been gerrymandering, of course, but over the past several decades the data analysis tools required to understand voter patterns down to a pretty microscopic level have been developed, and the resulting gerrymanders have become more and more effective over time.
posted by flug at 9:26 PM on August 16, 2016 [22 favorites]
I mean, I really never hear about Scott Adams or Michael Moore anywhere except metafilter threads
Sadly I did hear a Scott Adams reference in real life recently. It was my wife's crazy uncle, who's a massive mysognist but somehow at the same time a radical Buddhist convert who believe in GMOs and won't eat honey because of "the toxins". Oh, and a democratic election observer for 30 years. I don't even know, he's a land of contrasts. He cited Scott Adams defense of Trump as "some really good points" why Hilary can't win. Intellectual cover for his aversion to a woman president I'm sure, but it was weird hearing someone quote Scott Adams in a real live debate outside metafilter.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:35 PM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
Sadly I did hear a Scott Adams reference in real life recently. It was my wife's crazy uncle, who's a massive mysognist but somehow at the same time a radical Buddhist convert who believe in GMOs and won't eat honey because of "the toxins". Oh, and a democratic election observer for 30 years. I don't even know, he's a land of contrasts. He cited Scott Adams defense of Trump as "some really good points" why Hilary can't win. Intellectual cover for his aversion to a woman president I'm sure, but it was weird hearing someone quote Scott Adams in a real live debate outside metafilter.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:35 PM on August 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
Omarosa Says Critics Will 'Bow Down' to President Trump in Trailer for PBS Documentary:
In a trailer for a new Frontline two-hour special coming to PBS in September the Trump campaign’s Director of African-American Outreach Omarosa Manigault, predicts that all of Trump’s haters will have to “bow down” when that rotten honey-baked ham ascends to the highest office in the country.posted by kirkaracha at 9:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
...
“Before America votes,” intones a dramatic voice-over, “in this historic election, a two hour special report that’s less about what they say and more about who they are.” Oh, good. Really chomping at the bit here to learn more than we already know about an orange buffoon and a beleaguered woman who really, really wants this.
Can we declare Working for Trump a Schedule-whatever drug and lock away the users? And white dudes found with traces amounts? Can we?
posted by lauranesson at 9:47 PM on August 16, 2016
posted by lauranesson at 9:47 PM on August 16, 2016
At this point we shouldn't even joke about imprisoning political opponents. So, no.
posted by phooky at 10:07 PM on August 16, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by phooky at 10:07 PM on August 16, 2016 [18 favorites]
Omarosa Says Critics Will 'Bow Down' to President Trump in Trailer for PBS Documentary
The idea that Americans would 'bow down' before their president is something I'd expect from a peasant from the 1100s we unfroze from a glacier to say, not a modern person. I'd daresay that anyone who thinks such a thing is desirable completely fails to understand the concept of democracy or America.
posted by Mitrovarr at 10:13 PM on August 16, 2016 [22 favorites]
The idea that Americans would 'bow down' before their president is something I'd expect from a peasant from the 1100s we unfroze from a glacier to say, not a modern person. I'd daresay that anyone who thinks such a thing is desirable completely fails to understand the concept of democracy or America.
posted by Mitrovarr at 10:13 PM on August 16, 2016 [22 favorites]
"We don't look to be ruled."
posted by dirigibleman at 10:16 PM on August 16, 2016 [21 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 10:16 PM on August 16, 2016 [21 favorites]
I'm pretty sure in Trump Campaign HQ there is a big Trump Clock mounted prominently in the main work area, similar to the War Clock in Pacific Rim. Every time Donald tweets the clock resets to zero with a dolorous clang amid the groans of frustrated workers. The 'days' section of that clock has never, ever reached 1.
posted by um at 10:27 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by um at 10:27 PM on August 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
I thought we were an autonomous collective?
posted by teponaztli at 10:27 PM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by teponaztli at 10:27 PM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
I got confused during the banana portion of this thread. The first joke, at least, should have used a [fake] tag because I could not tell immediately. Just a reminder as a public service announcement during this topsy turvey time. Thank you, that is all.
posted by Bella Donna at 10:28 PM on August 16, 2016
posted by Bella Donna at 10:28 PM on August 16, 2016
I'd daresay that anyone who thinks such a thing is desirable completely fails to understand the concept of democracy or America.
You have identified a key Trump demographic, yes. Unfortunately, for some people, that's less 'unfrozen from 1100 AD' and more 'maybe they were chilly at 11:00 PM last night.'
(Although I guess it might be more fair to say that's a rejection of American democracy rather than necessarily a misunderstanding of it: getting rid of how we do things now is part of why some people want Trump.)
posted by mordax at 10:32 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
You have identified a key Trump demographic, yes. Unfortunately, for some people, that's less 'unfrozen from 1100 AD' and more 'maybe they were chilly at 11:00 PM last night.'
(Although I guess it might be more fair to say that's a rejection of American democracy rather than necessarily a misunderstanding of it: getting rid of how we do things now is part of why some people want Trump.)
posted by mordax at 10:32 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Tim is being charming, in an avuncular way.
I'm trying to find a good short-ish video (or a few videos) that can serve as a good intro to Tim Kaine -- "good" meaning something where he talks about serious campaign issues while his "dad" personality also comes across.
Any suggestions? I'm hoping there's something closer to 15-20 minutes. Speech, interview, highlight reel, whatever you like. This is to share with a few folks who would have a hard time sitting through an entire 40-60 minute speech.
(FWIW, I've seen a few of his recent ones: Miami when HRC announced him, official acceptance at DNC, and National Urban League conference; and I've also seen the older video of his immigration reform speech in Spanish on the Senate floor, and him winning the National Press Club Spelling Bee. All worthwhile but it would be nice to distill it down somehow.)
posted by rangefinder 1.4 at 11:06 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm trying to find a good short-ish video (or a few videos) that can serve as a good intro to Tim Kaine -- "good" meaning something where he talks about serious campaign issues while his "dad" personality also comes across.
Any suggestions? I'm hoping there's something closer to 15-20 minutes. Speech, interview, highlight reel, whatever you like. This is to share with a few folks who would have a hard time sitting through an entire 40-60 minute speech.
(FWIW, I've seen a few of his recent ones: Miami when HRC announced him, official acceptance at DNC, and National Urban League conference; and I've also seen the older video of his immigration reform speech in Spanish on the Senate floor, and him winning the National Press Club Spelling Bee. All worthwhile but it would be nice to distill it down somehow.)
posted by rangefinder 1.4 at 11:06 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm trying to find a good short-ish video (or a few videos) that can serve as a good intro to Tim Kaine
bonus points if he changes into a zipper sweater and lays down some sweet harp riffs
posted by salix at 11:17 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
bonus points if he changes into a zipper sweater and lays down some sweet harp riffs
posted by salix at 11:17 PM on August 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
@costareports (Robert Costa):
NEWS, first reported by @WSJ: Breitbart's Steve Bannon and Kellyanne Conway are now running the Trump campaign... Confirmed by WaPo
posted by salix at 11:23 PM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
NEWS, first reported by @WSJ: Breitbart's Steve Bannon and Kellyanne Conway are now running the Trump campaign... Confirmed by WaPo
posted by salix at 11:23 PM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
By the time Chris Christie became governor of New Jersey, the state’s auditors and lawyers had been battling for several years to collect long-overdue taxes owed by the casinos founded by his friend Donald J. Trump.
The total, with interest, had grown to almost $30 million. The state had doggedly pursued the matter through two of the casinos’ bankruptcy cases and even accused the company led by Mr. Trump of filing false reports with state casino regulators about the amount of taxes it had paid.
But the year after Governor Christie, a Republican, took office, the tone of the litigation shifted. The state entertained settlement offers. And in December 2011, after six years in court, the state agreed to accept just $5 million, roughly 17 cents on the dollar of what auditors said the casinos owed.
Trump Casinos’ Tax Debt Was $30 Million. Then Christie Took Office. (New York Times)
posted by salix at 11:31 PM on August 16, 2016 [32 favorites]
The total, with interest, had grown to almost $30 million. The state had doggedly pursued the matter through two of the casinos’ bankruptcy cases and even accused the company led by Mr. Trump of filing false reports with state casino regulators about the amount of taxes it had paid.
But the year after Governor Christie, a Republican, took office, the tone of the litigation shifted. The state entertained settlement offers. And in December 2011, after six years in court, the state agreed to accept just $5 million, roughly 17 cents on the dollar of what auditors said the casinos owed.
Trump Casinos’ Tax Debt Was $30 Million. Then Christie Took Office. (New York Times)
posted by salix at 11:31 PM on August 16, 2016 [32 favorites]
Neither Bannon nor Conway have experience running campaigns, do they? Conway is a pollster and Bannon is a professional douchebag?
posted by Justinian at 11:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 11:39 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
NEWS, first reported by @WSJ: Breitbart's Steve Bannon and Kellyanne Conway are now running the Trump campaign... Confirmed by WaPo
This election is stupid. Everything is stupid.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:40 PM on August 16, 2016 [35 favorites]
This election is stupid. Everything is stupid.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:40 PM on August 16, 2016 [35 favorites]
Now that Breitbart is OFFICIALLY running his campaign, are we now allowed to say that *Trump's internal polling* has Hillary up by 5?
posted by acidic at 11:47 PM on August 16, 2016 [23 favorites]
posted by acidic at 11:47 PM on August 16, 2016 [23 favorites]
rangefinder - his section on the Virginia Tech shooting from the Florida rally with Hillary is under 5 minutes long.
His New Hampshire speech from 8/13, starting about 22 minutes in, might be worth adding to that.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:57 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
His New Hampshire speech from 8/13, starting about 22 minutes in, might be worth adding to that.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:57 PM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Brand-new WaPo: Trump reshuffles staff in his own image
Donald Trump, following weeks of gnawing agitation over his advisers’ attempts to temper his style, moved late Tuesday to overhaul his struggling campaign by rebuffing those efforts and elevating two longtime associates who have encouraged his combative populism.More Robert Costa tweets hitting the highlights:
Stephen Bannon, a former banker who runs the influential conservative outlet Breitbart News and is known for his fiercely anti-establishment politics, has been named the Trump campaign’s chief executive. Kellyanne Conway, a veteran Republican pollster who has been close to Trump for years, will assume the role of campaign manager. [...]
Trump’s stunning decision effectively ended the months-long push by campaign chairman Paul Manafort to moderate Trump’s presentation and pitch for the general election. And it sent a signal, perhaps more clear than ever, that the real-estate mogul intends to finish this race on his own terms, with friends who share his instincts at his side.
Trump is keeping on Manafort as chairman but wanted to bring on someone like Bannon who shares his populism & relishes combatposted by Rhaomi at 12:14 AM on August 17, 2016 [45 favorites]
MANAFORT will remain in his role. But his status is diminished. Trump has had gnawing agitation for weeks, felt "boxed in" per aides
Story soon... BREITBART orbit is ecstatic... the Bannon-Coulter-Sessions wing of the right is now running GOP nominee's campaign
I've known Bannon for years. He is Trump's alter ego. A colorful, edgy figure. Nationalist, deeply anti-estab. Media focused.
It's important to note that one of the biggest critics in country of Ryan and McConnell is Steven Bannon. Bannon is now running Trump camp.
As I continue to make calls, I keep hearing that this was driven by Trump. He wanted to finish race on his own terms, w/ pals at his side.
Ok, but what we all want to know is what position will Meredith hold?
posted by zachlipton at 12:18 AM on August 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:18 AM on August 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
Next up: Milo Yiannopoulos is hired as social media director, and Eron Gjoni as liason to women.
posted by happyroach at 12:19 AM on August 17, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by happyroach at 12:19 AM on August 17, 2016 [24 favorites]
Not sure whether this is good or bad news. On the one hand, he was doing a terrible job of pivoting and mouthing talking points and it was hurting the only thing he was actually good at: getting headlines. On the other hand if attacking the Khans was an example of unfettered Tramp, we are in for a horrifying but totally unappetizing few months.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:20 AM on August 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:20 AM on August 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
In short: LOL at this dumb motherfucker.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:21 AM on August 17, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:21 AM on August 17, 2016 [20 favorites]
NEWS, first reported by @WSJ: Breitbart's Steve Bannon and Kellyanne Conway are now running the Trump campaign... Confirmed by WaPo
And surely that's [fake], right? Right?!???
No, it's not. I just can't stop laughing. Really.
This campaign is the gift that just keeps on giving, day after day.
And Trump's campaign was already the wet dream of the far right nutjobs. But now it really is. Busting out the KEGS of popcorn here . . .
posted by flug at 12:24 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
And surely that's [fake], right? Right?!???
No, it's not. I just can't stop laughing. Really.
This campaign is the gift that just keeps on giving, day after day.
And Trump's campaign was already the wet dream of the far right nutjobs. But now it really is. Busting out the KEGS of popcorn here . . .
posted by flug at 12:24 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm confused how his campaign will have a "national chairman" (Manafort), chief executive (Bannon), and campaign manager (Conway). This management triangle seems rather unstable.
posted by zachlipton at 12:25 AM on August 17, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:25 AM on August 17, 2016 [14 favorites]
If decisions continue to ultimately be made by Trump himself, it really doesn't matter what titles people have. It's the classic business flail: a deck-chair-shuffle re-org that accomplishes nothing because the same person remains in charge.
posted by feloniousmonk at 12:29 AM on August 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by feloniousmonk at 12:29 AM on August 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
The fact that Peirson and Manefort are still around proves that his famous "you're fired" catchphrase is just another element of his con. Another bit of fake swagger backed up by nothing.
posted by humanfont at 12:31 AM on August 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 12:31 AM on August 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
Kellyanne Conway, previously, on the importance of speaking English:
Today it's just mayonnaise, but tomorrow, planes will be falling out of the sky left and right. The workers in question here were clothes sorters at the Salvation Army.
posted by zachlipton at 12:34 AM on August 17, 2016 [57 favorites]
During an O'Reilly Factor discussion of a lawsuit over two employees fired for speaking Spanish in the workplace, Republican strategist Kellyanne Conway said: "[W]hat starts out as maybe the person doesn't speak English, getting -- putting mayonnaise instead of mustard as you requested on your sandwich is one day going to blossom into two air traffic controllers who don't speak great English because political correctness has made us appoint them to those positions. They're going to have two planes crashing in the sky. And that's not a dramatic example. That's what happens with slippery slopes."(background)
Today it's just mayonnaise, but tomorrow, planes will be falling out of the sky left and right. The workers in question here were clothes sorters at the Salvation Army.
posted by zachlipton at 12:34 AM on August 17, 2016 [57 favorites]
Titles are just something MEREDITH makes everybody have so she can tell them apart. For Donald Trump, everyone in the campaign has the same title: "NOT TRUMP".
posted by mmoncur at 12:39 AM on August 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by mmoncur at 12:39 AM on August 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
"What starts out as maybe plausible speculation is one day going to blossom into a chain of ever direr and more unwarranted extrapolations. That's what happens with slippery slopes."
[fake]
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:57 AM on August 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
[fake]
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:57 AM on August 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
Long Bannon profile from Bloomberg, October 2015:
This Man Is the Most Dangerous Political Operative in America
posted by salix at 12:57 AM on August 17, 2016 [12 favorites]
This Man Is the Most Dangerous Political Operative in America
posted by salix at 12:57 AM on August 17, 2016 [12 favorites]
So, Trump just couldn't resist another Steve? Is this a "gotta catch 'em all" thing now?
posted by peppermind at 1:17 AM on August 17, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by peppermind at 1:17 AM on August 17, 2016 [16 favorites]
He's running for president to get a better deal for "The Apprentice."
I suspect there might be truth in that - in that he entered the Primary to raise the profile of Donald Trump. And it would have been excellent free advertising ... if he hadn't won. Somewhere along the way he got addicted to rallies - and now he's like the dog who actually caught the car it was chasing.
posted by Francis at 1:18 AM on August 17, 2016 [12 favorites]
I suspect there might be truth in that - in that he entered the Primary to raise the profile of Donald Trump. And it would have been excellent free advertising ... if he hadn't won. Somewhere along the way he got addicted to rallies - and now he's like the dog who actually caught the car it was chasing.
posted by Francis at 1:18 AM on August 17, 2016 [12 favorites]
Breitbart came along as promoter and ringmaster. When I spoke with him afterward, he described Bannon, with sincere admiration, as the Leni Riefenstahl of the Tea Party movement.
You know who el... oh, never mind.
Carry on.
posted by Devonian at 1:33 AM on August 17, 2016 [21 favorites]
You know who el... oh, never mind.
Carry on.
posted by Devonian at 1:33 AM on August 17, 2016 [21 favorites]
Can anyone give me super quick context around the Breitbart thing and explain why the general reaction is what it is? I'm not really familiar with the group/person?
posted by like_neon at 1:34 AM on August 17, 2016
posted by like_neon at 1:34 AM on August 17, 2016
Think of Fox News, but without the effort taken to mute the underlying bigotry.
posted by PenDevil at 1:40 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 1:40 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
It's worth reading the Bloomberg piece salix linked to. There are some interesting paradoxes there.
posted by Devonian at 1:50 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 1:50 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
Breitbart was founded by Andrew Breitbart, whose career was mostly figuring out what lies to tell about liberals for maximum effect. You know that James O'Keefe fuckstain? Andrew Breitbart was his backer and employer. Eventually Andrew died and Breitbart, after a bit of aimlessness, became one of the primary websites for the alt right.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:57 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:57 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
like_neon: the upshot is that putting Barrow in a position of authority in his campaign indicates that, rather than pivot towards a less bombastic and hostile campaign, Trump is doubling down on the racist nationalism, bigotry, and over the top rage towards opponents.
posted by Justinian at 2:03 AM on August 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:03 AM on August 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
In short, Donald Trump is a land of no contrasts.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:06 AM on August 17, 2016 [48 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:06 AM on August 17, 2016 [48 favorites]
And the other upshot is that Trump cares more about ideology (or cronyism?) than about whether someone has actual experience running a campaign.
posted by mmoncur at 2:06 AM on August 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by mmoncur at 2:06 AM on August 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Is Barrow going to be effective? Skimming the Bloomberg piece, Barrow has been ratfucking the media for the alt-right, so is it a big change for him to be ratfucking the media for the alt-right for Trump?
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:09 AM on August 17, 2016
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:09 AM on August 17, 2016
Dunno. The Bloomberg article can't make its mind up either - on the one hand, it's all OMG mining the dark web for sekrit facts to hand over to hapless MSM as part of a weaponised 'burn down the establishment' narrative; on the other, they seem to have serious problems finding non-establishment figureheads (Palin! And now Trump!), and they've already spent lots of ammo trying to cripple the Clintons and yet here she is. The article ends with a hint that they'll try to resurrect Bill's sex scandals. one presumes because they ain't got nothing.
Will this cause the final rift with the GOP? What does Breitbart have on Trump's own history? Can the alt.right do anything about its limited demographic appeal?
Lots of questions. I tend to the 'that which doesn't kill me makes me stronger' take on HRC's ability to cope with more of the same old, and the internecine war on the Right being too messy to overcome this election. Breitbart or no, there's still good reason to hope for a big Clinton win and the chance of actual power.
posted by Devonian at 2:42 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
Will this cause the final rift with the GOP? What does Breitbart have on Trump's own history? Can the alt.right do anything about its limited demographic appeal?
Lots of questions. I tend to the 'that which doesn't kill me makes me stronger' take on HRC's ability to cope with more of the same old, and the internecine war on the Right being too messy to overcome this election. Breitbart or no, there's still good reason to hope for a big Clinton win and the chance of actual power.
posted by Devonian at 2:42 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
don't have much of a platform other than Tax Breaks for the Rich and Abortions for None. That platform isn't going to attract a wide selection of demographic groups.
It's important to see your enemies, including political, as they are, not as you want them to be. When you say stuff like that, of course it looks incomprehensible why anyone would vote for them. But outside that corridor, there are strong differences that reasonable people can hold.
Whether accurate or not, the perception of the Democratic party is that it is not friendly to property-owning and small-business-owning families, which is a major reason before this election that my property-owning and small-business-starting Hispanic family has voted Republican loyally. My own perception of the Democratic party - again, whether accurate or not - is that the Democratic party doesn't care about me - a veteran, a mom, a middle-class Hispanic who is interested in buying a suburban house and already has healthcare. I don't hear them talking to me. Nothing they say is talking to me. I literally have not heard a single policy position from Hillary Clinton that seems designed to appeal to me. The only policy plank she has going for her - in my eyes - is Not Being Donald Trump. Which is a pretty great policy plank! And it's enough to get me to vote for her this election. But it's not enough to get me to identify as a Democrat.
posted by corb at 3:30 AM on August 17, 2016 [37 favorites]
It's important to see your enemies, including political, as they are, not as you want them to be. When you say stuff like that, of course it looks incomprehensible why anyone would vote for them. But outside that corridor, there are strong differences that reasonable people can hold.
Whether accurate or not, the perception of the Democratic party is that it is not friendly to property-owning and small-business-owning families, which is a major reason before this election that my property-owning and small-business-starting Hispanic family has voted Republican loyally. My own perception of the Democratic party - again, whether accurate or not - is that the Democratic party doesn't care about me - a veteran, a mom, a middle-class Hispanic who is interested in buying a suburban house and already has healthcare. I don't hear them talking to me. Nothing they say is talking to me. I literally have not heard a single policy position from Hillary Clinton that seems designed to appeal to me. The only policy plank she has going for her - in my eyes - is Not Being Donald Trump. Which is a pretty great policy plank! And it's enough to get me to vote for her this election. But it's not enough to get me to identify as a Democrat.
posted by corb at 3:30 AM on August 17, 2016 [37 favorites]
I think we're witnessing the Trump Pivot now as more and more of his specific promises are becoming "standard boilerplate right-wing Republican", only delivered in the style of a WWE performer (that's where he learned to kayfabe, duh). He already delivered an "Economic Policy Address" that essentially dropped most of his 'populist' proposals in favor of pure trickle-down and full protection of the children of billionaires (sadly, among his threats, bloopers and word salad, it was pretty much glossed over). The addition of Bannon and Conway don't seem to mean adopting the policy of the 'alt-right' as much as confirmation of his endorsement of its obnoxious tactics. He already has Roger Ailes advising him for the debates (and remember that FoxNews under Ailes had spent much of the primary season with an "Anybody But Donald" bent until he became inevitable). The article with the $25 million tax forgiveness from Gov. Christie also explains a lot about his choices of advisors. And keeping Manafort on is obviously more about his connection to Putin and other foreign dictators than any 'strategy'... he'll be even more valuable to Trump after the big loss. It's dealmaking and cronyism all the way down (and why should that be a surprise from the Artist of the Dirty Deal?) and it all should just deepen the divisions with the 'mainstream' Republicans just as he's pulling the rest of the party down in the polls. And of course, after all his crybaby whining about the Evil Media, he now has his own Pet Media Entity - which doesn't look good for the future of Breitbart UNLESS it's a longer-term deal to become a big part of "Trump TV" as a consolation prize.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:32 AM on August 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:32 AM on August 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
Its important to see your enemies, including political, as they are, not as you want them to be.
.....The only policy plank [Hillary Clinton] has going for her - in my eyes - is Not Being Donald Trump.
posted by cashman at 3:46 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
.....The only policy plank [Hillary Clinton] has going for her - in my eyes - is Not Being Donald Trump.
posted by cashman at 3:46 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
I don't hear them talking to me. Nothing they say is talking to me.
With all due respect — and I do have a great deal of respect for you — I cannot imagine how this is so. There is really nothing that was said from the stage in Philadelphia that resonated with you? At all?
Maybe the difference between us is that I don't expect parties to speak to me, personally? Like a lot of people posting here, I'm somewhere between a mild outlier and wildly atypical with respect to the broad population, in so many ways I'm not even going to bother trying to articulate them. My distance from the contemporary Democratic Party isn't even so much political as it is existential. I am never in my life going to hear any major-party politician stand at the vortical heart of a multi-million dollar work of stagecraft and speak to my exact values — not even Bernie, not even close.
But even so, I can hear things that resonate with me. I can hear an aspiration to common purpose, a belief in the power of solidarity, and a dawning realization that our splendid glittering difference in all its forms is what redeems us. I see some of that on stage as lived truth, too, not just as rhetoric. Yeah that talks to me. Hell yeah it does.
I haven't had your life experience, corb, except that we both spent some time in the service. But if none of that connects with you in any way, may I humbly suggest that what you're asking for is...a little selfish? I don't expect any party to craft policy specifically so it caters to me and my desires. What I expect, and what I will vote for despite my other political commitments, is a party that crafts policy with the least powerful among us foremost in mind.
posted by adamgreenfield at 3:56 AM on August 17, 2016 [71 favorites]
With all due respect — and I do have a great deal of respect for you — I cannot imagine how this is so. There is really nothing that was said from the stage in Philadelphia that resonated with you? At all?
Maybe the difference between us is that I don't expect parties to speak to me, personally? Like a lot of people posting here, I'm somewhere between a mild outlier and wildly atypical with respect to the broad population, in so many ways I'm not even going to bother trying to articulate them. My distance from the contemporary Democratic Party isn't even so much political as it is existential. I am never in my life going to hear any major-party politician stand at the vortical heart of a multi-million dollar work of stagecraft and speak to my exact values — not even Bernie, not even close.
But even so, I can hear things that resonate with me. I can hear an aspiration to common purpose, a belief in the power of solidarity, and a dawning realization that our splendid glittering difference in all its forms is what redeems us. I see some of that on stage as lived truth, too, not just as rhetoric. Yeah that talks to me. Hell yeah it does.
I haven't had your life experience, corb, except that we both spent some time in the service. But if none of that connects with you in any way, may I humbly suggest that what you're asking for is...a little selfish? I don't expect any party to craft policy specifically so it caters to me and my desires. What I expect, and what I will vote for despite my other political commitments, is a party that crafts policy with the least powerful among us foremost in mind.
posted by adamgreenfield at 3:56 AM on August 17, 2016 [71 favorites]
This is starting to make season 2 of Sleepy Hollow seem slowly and carefully paced and plotted.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 4:06 AM on August 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 4:06 AM on August 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
The only policy plank she has for her - in my eyes - is Not Being Donald Trump.
What policy plank(s) did Cruz, Rubio, and/or Kasich have going for them in your eyes?
posted by bardophile at 4:06 AM on August 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
What policy plank(s) did Cruz, Rubio, and/or Kasich have going for them in your eyes?
posted by bardophile at 4:06 AM on August 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
The democrats don't like property owners?
Obama should have let the banks fail and it would have been on Bush.
posted by spitbull at 4:13 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
Obama should have let the banks fail and it would have been on Bush.
posted by spitbull at 4:13 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
I think "see them as they are, not as you want them to be" applies to your allies just as much as your "enemies". Republicans may talk big about Supporting The Troops and veterans, but it doesn't take much googling to see who it is voting down Veteran's aid bills again and again and again. I would be curious which actual policy positions encourage you to identify as Republican, as opposed to just not identifying as Democrat.
posted by Roommate at 4:13 AM on August 17, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by Roommate at 4:13 AM on August 17, 2016 [26 favorites]
And boy do I hate that seeing political opponents as enemies is where discourse has fallen in this country. (And it's not that I disagree - Trump is 100% my enemy. but it's still depressing. It doesn't have to be this way.)
posted by Roommate at 4:16 AM on August 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Roommate at 4:16 AM on August 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
> "I literally have not heard a single policy position from Hillary Clinton that seems designed to appeal to me."
Huh. That's surprising to me. Some of her policy positions include:
- Give tax cuts to the middle class and small businesses
- Make preschool and college more affordable
- Reform veterans’ health care to ensure access to timely and high quality care
- Expand tax credits for veterans’ employment, improve certification and credentialing programs, and strengthen veteran entrepreneurship programs
- Expand military spousal employment support and training initiatives while in service and during transition
- Adopt inclusive personnel policies, including aggressively combating military sexual assault and harassment; welcome women to compete for all military positions
I mean, maybe you don't believe she'll achieve some of that, or maybe you disagree with the details, but if we're strictly talking policy positions designed to appeal to veterans and the middle class, do none of those fit the bill for you?
posted by kyrademon at 4:18 AM on August 17, 2016 [66 favorites]
Huh. That's surprising to me. Some of her policy positions include:
- Give tax cuts to the middle class and small businesses
- Make preschool and college more affordable
- Reform veterans’ health care to ensure access to timely and high quality care
- Expand tax credits for veterans’ employment, improve certification and credentialing programs, and strengthen veteran entrepreneurship programs
- Expand military spousal employment support and training initiatives while in service and during transition
- Adopt inclusive personnel policies, including aggressively combating military sexual assault and harassment; welcome women to compete for all military positions
I mean, maybe you don't believe she'll achieve some of that, or maybe you disagree with the details, but if we're strictly talking policy positions designed to appeal to veterans and the middle class, do none of those fit the bill for you?
posted by kyrademon at 4:18 AM on August 17, 2016 [66 favorites]
Nate Silver: Trump pivots 360 degrees. Innovative.
posted by octothorpe at 4:29 AM on August 17, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 4:29 AM on August 17, 2016 [24 favorites]
The problem with only supporting policies that benefit you directly, is that your circumstances can change. You can become disabled, lose your job, fail at business, get divorced, have any number of tragedies happen to you or your loved ones. And so from a purely selfish point of view, it makes sense to want there to be safety nets in place.
In my professional life I've seen a lot of people at their lowest point. A lot of them were objectively successful at some point previously, including lots of business owners, and never thought they would end up where they did, totally dependent on the state for their support. It can happen, it happens every day.
There are lots of extremely good reasons to care for the vulnerable and the weak, from the religious to the purely self-interested.
posted by threeturtles at 4:32 AM on August 17, 2016 [66 favorites]
In my professional life I've seen a lot of people at their lowest point. A lot of them were objectively successful at some point previously, including lots of business owners, and never thought they would end up where they did, totally dependent on the state for their support. It can happen, it happens every day.
There are lots of extremely good reasons to care for the vulnerable and the weak, from the religious to the purely self-interested.
posted by threeturtles at 4:32 AM on August 17, 2016 [66 favorites]
I'm one of the lucky few who has come out the other end of the aughts in an okay place. I'm not wealthy or even upper middle class, but I have a (very modest) house and I can pay my kid's daycare (and I work at a university so as long as I can manage to stay employed there for the next 18 years, his college tuition is taken care of) and go out to eat a couple times a month. Honestly what I personally need from politicians right now is mostly "don't fuck it up and crash the entire economy/start a world war." But that's not where my voting impetus ends, because, to quote George Costanza, we're trying to have a society here. My vote will always and forever go to the person who has the interests of the least fortunate at heart. It'll go to the person who understands that paying taxes is a civic duty and privilege that allows us to form a social contract in which some of us give a little and some of us get a little. I'm more than happy to forego an annual vacation to Disney or whatever if it means that my taxes help someone who needs it. It's not something I do grudgingly but happily. And I will never vote for someone who so fundamentally disagrees with that stance that they think I am lying or being disingenuous when I say that.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:45 AM on August 17, 2016 [98 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:45 AM on August 17, 2016 [98 favorites]
I'd just like to point out that corb made one comment asking us to try to see Republicans from their point of view, in response to a pretty narrow and reductive dismissal of Republican policies and their supporters. She was met with seven responses from typical left-leaning Mefites over the next hour, two of which were just unhelpful hot takes. I think her point was validated.
I think that a lot of people zeroed in on these sentences: "Nothing they say is talking to me. I literally have not heard a single policy position from Hillary Clinton that seems designed to appeal to me. The only policy plank she has going for her - in my eyes - is Not Being Donald Trump." In focusing on these sentences, some people then have tried to get corb to explicate her specific views on policy.
But the parts that drew my attention were these: "Whether accurate or not, the perception of the Democratic party is..." "My own perception of the Democratic party - again, whether accurate or not - is that the Democratic party doesn't care about me..." "But it's not enough to get me to identify as a Democrat." This was the point of corb's comment, to me: not a message about policy, but a message about perception and identity. I think she is trying to get us to look past our caricatures of Republicans, which are easy to draw up and rely on when we have nothing else, and consider "Republican" as an identity.
I think it's possible to oppose Republican policies and still understand empathetically why people support them and gravitate toward a Republican identity. For that matter, I also think it's possible to feel that Republican policy has become so dominated by one priority/desire/ideology or another that it really has become a caricature of itself, and still recognize that there are Republicans with a more nuanced perspective, who do not actually support or identify with this single-minded drive.
There was an article that I'm pretty sure I saw in an earlier thread about Republicans supporting Hillary. The people interviewed were perfectly principled in their decision, but also made clear that support for the Democratic candidate did not mean support for all Democratic policies, to say nothing of a switch to the Democratic Party. I think that if we are to give Trump and his nativist base the landslide defeat they deserve, we need to be able to understand and work with the identities and perceptions of those Republicans who are willing to join us.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 4:52 AM on August 17, 2016 [70 favorites]
I think that a lot of people zeroed in on these sentences: "Nothing they say is talking to me. I literally have not heard a single policy position from Hillary Clinton that seems designed to appeal to me. The only policy plank she has going for her - in my eyes - is Not Being Donald Trump." In focusing on these sentences, some people then have tried to get corb to explicate her specific views on policy.
But the parts that drew my attention were these: "Whether accurate or not, the perception of the Democratic party is..." "My own perception of the Democratic party - again, whether accurate or not - is that the Democratic party doesn't care about me..." "But it's not enough to get me to identify as a Democrat." This was the point of corb's comment, to me: not a message about policy, but a message about perception and identity. I think she is trying to get us to look past our caricatures of Republicans, which are easy to draw up and rely on when we have nothing else, and consider "Republican" as an identity.
I think it's possible to oppose Republican policies and still understand empathetically why people support them and gravitate toward a Republican identity. For that matter, I also think it's possible to feel that Republican policy has become so dominated by one priority/desire/ideology or another that it really has become a caricature of itself, and still recognize that there are Republicans with a more nuanced perspective, who do not actually support or identify with this single-minded drive.
There was an article that I'm pretty sure I saw in an earlier thread about Republicans supporting Hillary. The people interviewed were perfectly principled in their decision, but also made clear that support for the Democratic candidate did not mean support for all Democratic policies, to say nothing of a switch to the Democratic Party. I think that if we are to give Trump and his nativist base the landslide defeat they deserve, we need to be able to understand and work with the identities and perceptions of those Republicans who are willing to join us.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 4:52 AM on August 17, 2016 [70 favorites]
My own perception of the Democratic party - again, whether accurate or not - is that the Democratic party doesn't care about me - a veteran, a mom, a middle-class Hispanic who is interested in buying a suburban house and already has healthcare. I don't hear them talking to me. Nothing they say is talking to me. I literally have not heard a single policy position from Hillary Clinton that seems designed to appeal to me.
Okay, setting aside the idea that the Democratic Party and/or Hillary Clinton don't care about veterans, mothers, the middle class, Hispanic and Latinx people, homebuyers, and people with healthcare being demonstrably untrue. And same with the idea that Clinton has not even discussed any of what you mentioned, let alone have a long record of working on improving them...have you considered that maybe it's because she's not just talking to you?
I don't mean that in a mean way, I mean it as the party and the candidate trying to speak to all people. And they're not hostile to private property or small businesses, and in fact the private sector in general, including small businesses has done relatively well under Obama. Not that this should come as a surprise, since the economy in general does better under Democrats than it does under Republicans, including for PoC. These are the kinds of things some of the GOP supporters of Clinton (on preview: what J.K. Seazer said) are talking about when it comes to both why they're doing it and how far down the rabbit hole the Trump voters have gone.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:58 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
Okay, setting aside the idea that the Democratic Party and/or Hillary Clinton don't care about veterans, mothers, the middle class, Hispanic and Latinx people, homebuyers, and people with healthcare being demonstrably untrue. And same with the idea that Clinton has not even discussed any of what you mentioned, let alone have a long record of working on improving them...have you considered that maybe it's because she's not just talking to you?
I don't mean that in a mean way, I mean it as the party and the candidate trying to speak to all people. And they're not hostile to private property or small businesses, and in fact the private sector in general, including small businesses has done relatively well under Obama. Not that this should come as a surprise, since the economy in general does better under Democrats than it does under Republicans, including for PoC. These are the kinds of things some of the GOP supporters of Clinton (on preview: what J.K. Seazer said) are talking about when it comes to both why they're doing it and how far down the rabbit hole the Trump voters have gone.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:58 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
> "She was met with seven responses from typical left-leaning Mefites over the next hour ... I think her point was validated."
That's a fair point.
Sorry, corb.
posted by kyrademon at 5:04 AM on August 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
That's a fair point.
Sorry, corb.
posted by kyrademon at 5:04 AM on August 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
You're not wrong, J.K. Seazer, but those "typical left-leaning responses" all fall under the umbrella of being baffled that perception of Clinton and the Dems is as screwy as it is. How do we accommodate that screwiness into a discussion? By playacting that maybe the Dems do hate small businesses? By donning our evil commies LARP gear and fighting for the end of the estate tax?
The Republicans have spent forty years controlling narratives by throwing abject lies into the discourse and expecting the left to compromise on that truth. There's a through-line that takes us straight from Reagan to Trump's claim that Hillary founded ISIS. I welcome Republicans who've decided to be sane, for once, and appreciate that Hillary's message people know how to say the right truths to the right Rep-leaning groups, but I don't think making this less of a reality-based umbrella is the way to go here. We know what the other side believes. What they believe is largely horseshit. How do you propose we have a conversation with those people without their being the first ones to attempt reconciliation?
Respectfully, if this year shows us anything it's that one party here is waaaaaaaay off the fuckin' deep end. And, just as respectfully, it sure as shit ain't fuckin' us.
posted by rorgy at 5:04 AM on August 17, 2016 [58 favorites]
The Republicans have spent forty years controlling narratives by throwing abject lies into the discourse and expecting the left to compromise on that truth. There's a through-line that takes us straight from Reagan to Trump's claim that Hillary founded ISIS. I welcome Republicans who've decided to be sane, for once, and appreciate that Hillary's message people know how to say the right truths to the right Rep-leaning groups, but I don't think making this less of a reality-based umbrella is the way to go here. We know what the other side believes. What they believe is largely horseshit. How do you propose we have a conversation with those people without their being the first ones to attempt reconciliation?
Respectfully, if this year shows us anything it's that one party here is waaaaaaaay off the fuckin' deep end. And, just as respectfully, it sure as shit ain't fuckin' us.
posted by rorgy at 5:04 AM on August 17, 2016 [58 favorites]
Yeah, I mean, I have a ton of respect for corb in these threads, and I do regret participating in the inevitable pile on, but... chiding Dems to "see [Republicans] as they are, not as you want them to be" followed not by a description of Republicans-as-they-are (to corb), but a description of Dems-as-I-see-them does kind of steer the direction of the responses.
Trump IS the Republicans as-they-are. He's the nominee. Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, John McCain... almost all elected Republicans support the nominee. This is the Republican party in 2016.
posted by Roommate at 5:19 AM on August 17, 2016 [28 favorites]
Trump IS the Republicans as-they-are. He's the nominee. Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, John McCain... almost all elected Republicans support the nominee. This is the Republican party in 2016.
posted by Roommate at 5:19 AM on August 17, 2016 [28 favorites]
You have to admit, his primary victory was decisive. None of the "real" Republicans ever made it close, really.
posted by thelonius at 5:22 AM on August 17, 2016
posted by thelonius at 5:22 AM on August 17, 2016
I grew up a tribal Democrat, perhaps in the way corb describe herself as a loyal Republican. I was taught that Republicans were the party of banks, big business, monopolies and country clubs. Nixon's daughters looked like completely alien creatures to me. A famous family story is how my great-grandfather, on seeing my uncle with an "I Like Ike" button, said "So you think that now you've got a little money in your pocket, you think you're good enough to be a Republican. But you will never be good enough to be a Republican."
So it was with great surprise back in the 90s, when my sister-in-law, a tribal Republican, told me that everyone knew Republicans were the party of the average Joe. I was too stunned to even reply. I don't believe it, but I see corb repeating that here. I guess that changed with Reagan?
On the other hand, I think what's happening now is that millenials are getting the idea that Republicans are the racist party, especially because of the nonsense against Obama and playing around with voter's rights. My nephew, who is pretty conservative, but whose best friend is black, seems to be backing away from Republicans. In the article linked about millenial voters, there were a couple who were reluctant to identify as Republicans specifically because of the racism.
posted by maggiemaggie at 5:23 AM on August 17, 2016 [11 favorites]
So it was with great surprise back in the 90s, when my sister-in-law, a tribal Republican, told me that everyone knew Republicans were the party of the average Joe. I was too stunned to even reply. I don't believe it, but I see corb repeating that here. I guess that changed with Reagan?
On the other hand, I think what's happening now is that millenials are getting the idea that Republicans are the racist party, especially because of the nonsense against Obama and playing around with voter's rights. My nephew, who is pretty conservative, but whose best friend is black, seems to be backing away from Republicans. In the article linked about millenial voters, there were a couple who were reluctant to identify as Republicans specifically because of the racism.
posted by maggiemaggie at 5:23 AM on August 17, 2016 [11 favorites]
I had no intention of being part of a pile-on. I really do want to know which policy planks of any of the likely Republican alternative candidates do appeal to corb-type Republicans, in order to better understand their perspective.
posted by bardophile at 5:31 AM on August 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by bardophile at 5:31 AM on August 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
I welcome Republicans who've decided to be sane
I grew up a tribal Republican, raised by two Republicans (my mother was a long-time official for a Republican Women's Group) and after college (at two well-known Conservative institutions), I entered the Real World. My first Presidential vote was Gerald Ford over Jimmy Carter. My second was Jimmy Carter over Ronald Reagan and I have never looked back (except to consider Bob Dole over Bill Clinton on the issue of integrity and Billy turning 'Republican-lite'). I decided to be sane, and it required me to no longer be a Republican.
Donald Trump is no aberration. He is the purest essence of Republicanism (and the mindset of 'successful businessmen') I have ever seen. The party's "Id", as it were. The real division in the party is not between ideologies, it is between those who embrace it and those who shamefully deny it.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:31 AM on August 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
I grew up a tribal Republican, raised by two Republicans (my mother was a long-time official for a Republican Women's Group) and after college (at two well-known Conservative institutions), I entered the Real World. My first Presidential vote was Gerald Ford over Jimmy Carter. My second was Jimmy Carter over Ronald Reagan and I have never looked back (except to consider Bob Dole over Bill Clinton on the issue of integrity and Billy turning 'Republican-lite'). I decided to be sane, and it required me to no longer be a Republican.
Donald Trump is no aberration. He is the purest essence of Republicanism (and the mindset of 'successful businessmen') I have ever seen. The party's "Id", as it were. The real division in the party is not between ideologies, it is between those who embrace it and those who shamefully deny it.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:31 AM on August 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
Seems the other stuff is now coming out on Manafort. Secretly routing millions from Pro-Putin sources to influence US policy.
Manafort tied to undisclosed foreign lobbying.
posted by chris24 at 5:32 AM on August 17, 2016 [15 favorites]
Manafort tied to undisclosed foreign lobbying.
posted by chris24 at 5:32 AM on August 17, 2016 [15 favorites]
I watched the Democratic convention with my husband, and we kept having these conversations where I had to explain that they weren't talking to him... they were talking to people who were worried about undocumented immigrants in their own family, not people worried about undocumented immigration in the abstract. They were talking about people who hoped their kids would be the first in their families to go to college, not people from familes of lawyers and psychologists and scientists. I said "they're not talking to you" at least three times when he objected to how they framed some issue, and I tried to explain what demographics votes he was going after, and it wasn't his.
But he still votes Democratic despite being a white man who makes a good living and owns a house and has kids and all that... because, more or less, he's scientist, and the Democratic party is the party that recognizes climate change, bases its health care policies on public health data, doesn't pander to creationists, and cites social science research in support of harm reduction measures, tries to expand access to education, etc.
The Republican party has, over the past couple of decades, positioned itself as hostile to expertise. So whether or not you share its values and aims, there is reason to question whether its policies will be effective in achieving those aims, if they aren't based on science and data, and if the voters driving them are less educated.
So that is one reason to support Democrats even if you don't identify with the "Down with the oppressors!" narratives. Democrats may be the party that wants to eat the rich (while Republicans want to BE the rich) but for now they're also the party that believes in science, the reality-based community.
I'm more bleeding heart than my husband these days, but I grew up a tribal Republican and went through an Ayn Rand phase and I can still see the Democrats as the party of "takers" if I squint and tilt my head, can see why Obama's "you didn't build that" line pissed people off even while I 100% agree with what he meant by it. (Nobody's business succeeds without public roads and police and fire departments and etc.)
But until Republicans stop hating data and science and education and expertise, they can't actually do a good job representing the interests of the ambitious and independent-minded householders their rhetoric targets. My husband will probably keep voting Democratic.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:33 AM on August 17, 2016 [45 favorites]
But he still votes Democratic despite being a white man who makes a good living and owns a house and has kids and all that... because, more or less, he's scientist, and the Democratic party is the party that recognizes climate change, bases its health care policies on public health data, doesn't pander to creationists, and cites social science research in support of harm reduction measures, tries to expand access to education, etc.
The Republican party has, over the past couple of decades, positioned itself as hostile to expertise. So whether or not you share its values and aims, there is reason to question whether its policies will be effective in achieving those aims, if they aren't based on science and data, and if the voters driving them are less educated.
So that is one reason to support Democrats even if you don't identify with the "Down with the oppressors!" narratives. Democrats may be the party that wants to eat the rich (while Republicans want to BE the rich) but for now they're also the party that believes in science, the reality-based community.
I'm more bleeding heart than my husband these days, but I grew up a tribal Republican and went through an Ayn Rand phase and I can still see the Democrats as the party of "takers" if I squint and tilt my head, can see why Obama's "you didn't build that" line pissed people off even while I 100% agree with what he meant by it. (Nobody's business succeeds without public roads and police and fire departments and etc.)
But until Republicans stop hating data and science and education and expertise, they can't actually do a good job representing the interests of the ambitious and independent-minded householders their rhetoric targets. My husband will probably keep voting Democratic.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:33 AM on August 17, 2016 [45 favorites]
It's interesting, though: I agree that there's a perception that the Republicans care more about small business, traditional families, rural folks and people who identify with them, Christian values (at least among white people), and what have you. (I think the perception that Republicans care more about mothers is changing, for what it's worth.) But I don't see a lot of reality in it. One of the big effects of Obamacare, certainly for me personally, is that it opens up huge, previously nonexistent possibilities for people with pre-existing conditions. Before Obamacare, I couldn't consider starting or working for a small business, because I needed to work at a big company or for the government if I wanted to get health insurance. Now, I can get individual health insurance despite having a pre-existing condition, and I could consider starting a business. Pre-Obamacare, entrepreneurship was not open to anyone with a pre-existing condition or a dependent with a pre-existing condition, and that's a whole lot of Americans. Pre-Obamacare, a lot of Americans were tethered to jobs because they couldn't afford to wait out the pre-existing condition exemption period if they switched health insurance. The ACA is a pro-entrepreneurial piece of legislation. The Republican opposition to it is anti-entrepreneurial. So who is really the party of small business here?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:38 AM on August 17, 2016 [27 favorites]
I guess that changed with Reagan?I think this is probably pretty regional. In some parts of the country, there was a long tradition of relatively progressive Republicans who genuinely cared about middle-class people's interests. That ideological strain has largely been purged from the party, but it was there for a long time. Republicans have become much more conservative and ideologically unified since Reagan.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:38 AM on August 17, 2016 [27 favorites]
Why does everything happen at 3:00 am?!
I woke up this morning and spent over an hour reading about this bizarre turn of events. That Bloomberg article about Bannon is a long read but very interesting. When I got to the Seinfeld connection I had to alert my husband who just finished reading a book about the making of Seinfeld. He said, "Oh that explains a few things. Like why they kept going to Trump Tower for lunch."
So I guess I'm....relieved? Sounds like Trump is going to go full on Trump and that cannot work for his election but at the same time the fact that Steve Bannon is now at the helm is a bit terrifying. From the WaPo article linked by Rhaomi
One thing, though, that gives me pause. I think Bannon's strategy will be to focus the campaign on anti-Hillary rhetoric. So far Trump has spread himself thinly criticizing the media, the GOP, and the Republicans he defeated, but now it will be all Hillary, all the time.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:39 AM on August 17, 2016 [11 favorites]
I woke up this morning and spent over an hour reading about this bizarre turn of events. That Bloomberg article about Bannon is a long read but very interesting. When I got to the Seinfeld connection I had to alert my husband who just finished reading a book about the making of Seinfeld. He said, "Oh that explains a few things. Like why they kept going to Trump Tower for lunch."
So I guess I'm....relieved? Sounds like Trump is going to go full on Trump and that cannot work for his election but at the same time the fact that Steve Bannon is now at the helm is a bit terrifying. From the WaPo article linked by Rhaomi
Bannon, in phone calls and meetings, has been urging Trump for months to not mount a fall campaign that makes Republican donors and officials comfortable, the aides said. Instead, Bannon has been telling Trump to run more fully as an outsider and an unabashed nationalist.And I love this comment from the article: This is like an alcoholic rejecting the family members who tried to stage an intervention and instead shacking up with another alcoholic who owns a saloon. Free drinks for everybody!
Trump has listened intently to Bannon and agreed with him, believing that voters will ultimately want a presidential candidate who represents disruption more than a candidate with polished appeal, the aides said.
“I want to win,” Trump told the Wall Street Journal. “That’s why I’m bringing on fantastic people who know how to win and love to win.”
One thing, though, that gives me pause. I think Bannon's strategy will be to focus the campaign on anti-Hillary rhetoric. So far Trump has spread himself thinly criticizing the media, the GOP, and the Republicans he defeated, but now it will be all Hillary, all the time.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:39 AM on August 17, 2016 [11 favorites]
Well, like a lot of folks here, I have conservative parents and family members. They're even extremely pure supply side economics non-racist pro-science intellectual conservatives (note: they no longer identify as Republicans for many of the reasons stated above). I know and understand the philosophical underpinnings of that brand of conservatism inside out. I just disagree.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:49 AM on August 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:49 AM on August 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
AP Sources: Manafort tied to undisclosed foreign lobbying
There’s a good chance I may have committed some light treason.
posted by Think_Long at 5:50 AM on August 17, 2016 [18 favorites]
There’s a good chance I may have committed some light treason.
posted by Think_Long at 5:50 AM on August 17, 2016 [18 favorites]
(Oh yeah, my husband also LOVES Obamacare, because we have two little girls who were born with "pre-existing conditions" - genetic diease - so they would've lost insurance forever if we ever lost our jobs, or eventually hit a lifetime cap even if we didn't, before Obamacare. So every time the Republicans promise to repeal that, they piss off my potentially sympathetic to their rhetoric husband, and my formerly Republican self.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:51 AM on August 17, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:51 AM on August 17, 2016 [17 favorites]
It's important to see your enemies, including political, as they are, not as you want them to be.
I'm a White Guy who worked as a GOP low-level state-party communications staffer a couple decades ago, and now tends to work mainly on Dem/Progressive campaigns. White Guys often talk verrrrry differently amongst other White Guys than they do when a Non White Guy is around. I didn't get my impression of GOP attitudes from them being my enemy. I got my impression of GOP attitudes from them being my employers, explaining how to spin their desired Pro-Rich-White-Guy platform into something the working class could swallow. The Southern Strategy was explained to me as continuing internal policy when I worked for the Party in 199x. Rich White Guys are perfectly comfortable acknowledging to one another that what they're "conserving" as conservatives is power and wealth in the hands of Rich White Guys. If I'm dismissive of the GOP it comes from having been on the inside, not being on the outside.
posted by Cookiebastard at 5:51 AM on August 17, 2016 [56 favorites]
I'm a White Guy who worked as a GOP low-level state-party communications staffer a couple decades ago, and now tends to work mainly on Dem/Progressive campaigns. White Guys often talk verrrrry differently amongst other White Guys than they do when a Non White Guy is around. I didn't get my impression of GOP attitudes from them being my enemy. I got my impression of GOP attitudes from them being my employers, explaining how to spin their desired Pro-Rich-White-Guy platform into something the working class could swallow. The Southern Strategy was explained to me as continuing internal policy when I worked for the Party in 199x. Rich White Guys are perfectly comfortable acknowledging to one another that what they're "conserving" as conservatives is power and wealth in the hands of Rich White Guys. If I'm dismissive of the GOP it comes from having been on the inside, not being on the outside.
posted by Cookiebastard at 5:51 AM on August 17, 2016 [56 favorites]
I'm confused how his campaign will have a "national chairman" (Manafort), chief executive (Bannon), and campaign manager (Conway). This management triangle seems rather unstable.
"Management triangle" is such an awkward phrase. Maybe we could call it a... troika?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:52 AM on August 17, 2016 [37 favorites]
"Management triangle" is such an awkward phrase. Maybe we could call it a... troika?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:52 AM on August 17, 2016 [37 favorites]
(Ask me about the time I went to an Institute for Humane Studies summer camp for teenaged libertarians!)
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:52 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:52 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Which is the point... and not singling out corb specifically, as the representative sane Republican here, but... what is it in the Republican platform that these "sane Republicans" identify with so much that they're willing to continue to identify as Republican? It's fine to say "there's nothing in the Democratic platform for me, so I won't identify as Democrat" - there are plenty of leftists here who will say the same thing. But then if you do continue to identify as Republican - despite the clear direction of the Republican party, despite the clearly racist actions of several Republican state governments in suppressing the African American vote, despite Trump being the standard-bearer of the Republican party, supported by the elected Republican establishment - I'd really, really like to know what it is these people see in the official platform and policies that they are willing to look past all that and say "yes, I'm still Republican." Rather than, at least, "I didn't leave the party, the party left me."
posted by Roommate at 5:58 AM on August 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Roommate at 5:58 AM on August 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
I'm confused how his campaign will have a "national chairman" (Manafort), chief executive (Bannon), and campaign manager (Conway).
Clearly he needs to keep Manafort or he gets a polonium breakfast.
posted by Artw at 6:02 AM on August 17, 2016 [14 favorites]
Clearly he needs to keep Manafort or he gets a polonium breakfast.
posted by Artw at 6:02 AM on August 17, 2016 [14 favorites]
Seems the other stuff is now coming out on Manafort. Secretly routing millions from Pro-Putin sources to influence US policy.
Manafort tied to undisclosed foreign lobbying.
Awkwardly enough, the lobbying group referenced in the article (the Podesta Group) was co-founded by Clinton's campaign Chair John Podesta and is currently chaired by his brother Tony. It appears from the article that John Podesta worked directly on this project, which may have violated FARA.
posted by sallybrown at 6:02 AM on August 17, 2016 [19 favorites]
Manafort tied to undisclosed foreign lobbying.
Awkwardly enough, the lobbying group referenced in the article (the Podesta Group) was co-founded by Clinton's campaign Chair John Podesta and is currently chaired by his brother Tony. It appears from the article that John Podesta worked directly on this project, which may have violated FARA.
Manafort and business associate Rick Gates, another top strategist in Trump's campaign, were working in 2012 on behalf of the political party of Ukraine's then-president, Viktor Yanukovych.This is some gross stuff.
People with direct knowledge of Gates' work said that, during the period when Gates and Manafort were consultants to the Ukraine president's political party, Gates was also helping steer the advocacy work done by a pro-Yanukovych nonprofit that hired a pair of Washington lobbying firms, Podesta Group Inc. and Mercury LLC.
The nonprofit, the newly created European Centre for a Modern Ukraine, was governed by a board that initially included parliament members from Yanukovych's party. The nonprofit subsequently paid at least $2.2 million to the lobbying firms to advocate positions generally in line with those of Yanukovych's government. . . .
After being introduced to the lobbying firms, the European nonprofit paid the Podesta Group $1.13 million between June 2012 and April 2014 to lobby Congress, the White House National Security Council, the State Department and other federal agencies, according to U.S. lobbying records.
The nonprofit also paid $1.07 million over roughly the same period to Mercury to lobby Congress. Among other issues, Mercury opposed congressional efforts to pressure Ukraine to release one of Yanukovych's political rivals from prison.
One former Podesta employee, speaking on condition of anonymity because of a non-disclosure agreement, said Gates described the nonprofit's role in an April, 2012 meeting as supplying a source of money that could not be traced to the Ukrainian politicians who were paying him and Manafort.
In separate interviews, three current and former Podesta employees said disagreements broke out within the firm over the arrangement, which at least one former employee considered obviously illegal. Podesta, who said the project was vetted by his firm's counsel, said he was unaware of any such disagreements.
A legal opinion drafted for the project for Mercury in May 2012, and obtained by AP, concluded that the European Centre qualified as a "foreign principal" under the Foreign Agents Registration Act but said disclosure to the Justice Department was not required. That determination was based on the nonprofit's assurances that none of its activities was directly or indirectly supervised, directed, controlled, financed or subsidized by Ukraine's government or any of the country's political parties.
The Podesta Group's CEO, Kimberley Fritts, said the two lobbying firms had coordinated on the legal conclusion that disclosure was not necessary to the Justice Department.
posted by sallybrown at 6:02 AM on August 17, 2016 [19 favorites]
Expanding a little bit on my last comment, because I earnestly do want to contribute something more than "no nope nah I disagree" as a response:
I remember drawing a lot of ire, a year or so into my time on this site (under a different account name), for jumping into feminist threads, and, as an earnest wanna-be ally, talking about how I, a man, saw feminism, and how maybe feminists could adjust how they talk about things to make their conversations more palatable to men! I saw this as a purely benevolent and open-minded act; at the time, I was studying PR and advertising, and this was just following some of the basic rules you follow when you're selling yourself to a more general audience, you know?
Without realizing it, I was succumbing to two major fallacies.
First, I failed to see that, in a linear discourse, time spent addressing a particular group's concerns is time spent elevating that group above any other. We have thread–derail rules on this site for a reason, and I think that reason matters beyond MetaFilter's limited confines: it is important, in any conversation, to know what the true subject of the conversation is. Unless the discussion is "How do we reach these people who don't see things the same way?", any talk along those lines is at least partially a derail. And when that question is raised, not organically as part of a loftier conversation, but as a reaction to somebody's not liking the tone of a discussion, then it's not just a derail but an intentional one, regardless of if the person who speaks up realizes it.
The same derail principle holds true in reverse, by the way, and I've occasionally found myself very irritated by people who interrupt what seems to me to be a good bit of fun with some kind of point to be made about animal rights or class biases or misogyny or whatever–else–have–you. Not because I don't care about those things, but because it is a tremendous tonal shift to go from "here's a bit of unexamined fun" to "yeah but if you examine that so–called 'fun' it's actually pretty unpleasant!" Not that I want to derail into the tangled topic of how to process situations like that. I just wanted to point out that this kind of topic–shifting derail isn't strictly a "reactionary" thing, and that it happens in a lot of "progressive" situations too (to the extent that the "humorless [X]" is a trope unto itself).
Rerailing!
Second, and maybe more importantly, the suggestion that people who're discussing a generally oppressive political or cultural group don't have enough empathy for the group in question is making a yuuuuuge assumption: namely, that the people in conversation don't already know. That, over the years and decades in which those people have suffered, genuinely suffered, as the result of a systemic and cultural force's imposing upon them, those suffering people haven't put any thought whatsoever into understanding how that opposing force lives with itself, how it tells itself that what it's doing is alright, what grievances it sees that makes it act the way that it does.
It also assumes that the reason that force does what it does is lack of empathy—not lack of empathy from IT to OTHERS, but lack of empathy from OTHERS to IT. Which is all kinds of problematic, to say the least.
At a thing I went to this weekend, I met up with a friend where we discussed a recent situation of a guy saying something icky and receiving a lot of flak in response. My friend, who was much closer to the guy than I am, discussed Active Listening as a technique to defuse somebody else's misconceptions: making the effort to understand how they truly feel, and letting them know that you are invested in getting their account of the world right. So when you respond to them, they know that you care about genuinely reaching them—and you're also much better–equipped to do so, perception alone aside.
The problem with that approach, in most situations, is that Active Listening requires you to privilege one person's perspective above literally everything else. By its very nature, it requires that you make every concession necessary until you reach that common ground. This is exhausting, time–consuming, requires a great deal of emotional labor, and, unless that one person is genuinely the center of attention, is going to send a message to literally every other person in the conversation that their perspectives or experiences are less important here, regardless of accuracy or emotional need or whatever else.
I and many others in this thread (I presume) have a fascination with the distorted perspectives of many groups in America's political landscape. I mentioned my Trump–loving grandfather, whom I love deeply. I find Cruz and Rubio supporters really intriguing as well, and Kasich fans interesting on a whole nother level. #BernieOrBusters, of whom I know a decent number, interest me too. I DO care about why people see what they see, and have cared about that for years.
Which is part of why, I think, requests that we "see the world how [this other group] sees it" rankle so much. Because they make a lot of assumptions about how blinkered a rather large group of people are in their worldviews. Because they feed into the perception, fueled by a right–wing media, that the political left lives in ivory towers, completely disconnected from the state of the world as REAL Americans experience it. Because they do exactly what they accuse others of doing—assuming that none of us have the same lived experiences, or could possibly understand other perspectives on the world, because clearly we all belong to the same demographic group, the same economic class, the same region of the country, and so on and on and on.
It also rankles because, generally speaking, I share the political views I do because I think they've been formed out of a desire to include the most people. To empathize the most. To welcome as many people as can possibly welcomed into a single space, to listen to all of them, to let them have the voices that we're now being accused of not allowing.
The argument that, essentially, says that that entire group of people needs to understand what some other group of people thinks, as if that understanding isn't already occurring, as in any disagreement stems from some combination of ignorance and lack of empathy, feels simultaneously like a massive projection and a massive derail. And I say this as a person who made the same damn argument, to a similarly bemused group of people who I was trying hard to join, approximately three thousand times before something finally clicked with me and I went "oh SHIT" and blushed about seven different colors of red for a month straight. I may not be conceding a lot of ground here, but I truly am writing all of this with a lot of empathy and caring, because I've definitely been there before, and can pretty readily put myself into those shoes, and now am basically just writing out the thing I wish I'd read then.
Which is another reason I suspect people get somewhat charged over situations like this. Something tells me that most of us have been there before. It's a more familiar space than it might feel.
posted by rorgy at 6:03 AM on August 17, 2016 [44 favorites]
I remember drawing a lot of ire, a year or so into my time on this site (under a different account name), for jumping into feminist threads, and, as an earnest wanna-be ally, talking about how I, a man, saw feminism, and how maybe feminists could adjust how they talk about things to make their conversations more palatable to men! I saw this as a purely benevolent and open-minded act; at the time, I was studying PR and advertising, and this was just following some of the basic rules you follow when you're selling yourself to a more general audience, you know?
Without realizing it, I was succumbing to two major fallacies.
First, I failed to see that, in a linear discourse, time spent addressing a particular group's concerns is time spent elevating that group above any other. We have thread–derail rules on this site for a reason, and I think that reason matters beyond MetaFilter's limited confines: it is important, in any conversation, to know what the true subject of the conversation is. Unless the discussion is "How do we reach these people who don't see things the same way?", any talk along those lines is at least partially a derail. And when that question is raised, not organically as part of a loftier conversation, but as a reaction to somebody's not liking the tone of a discussion, then it's not just a derail but an intentional one, regardless of if the person who speaks up realizes it.
The same derail principle holds true in reverse, by the way, and I've occasionally found myself very irritated by people who interrupt what seems to me to be a good bit of fun with some kind of point to be made about animal rights or class biases or misogyny or whatever–else–have–you. Not because I don't care about those things, but because it is a tremendous tonal shift to go from "here's a bit of unexamined fun" to "yeah but if you examine that so–called 'fun' it's actually pretty unpleasant!" Not that I want to derail into the tangled topic of how to process situations like that. I just wanted to point out that this kind of topic–shifting derail isn't strictly a "reactionary" thing, and that it happens in a lot of "progressive" situations too (to the extent that the "humorless [X]" is a trope unto itself).
Rerailing!
Second, and maybe more importantly, the suggestion that people who're discussing a generally oppressive political or cultural group don't have enough empathy for the group in question is making a yuuuuuge assumption: namely, that the people in conversation don't already know. That, over the years and decades in which those people have suffered, genuinely suffered, as the result of a systemic and cultural force's imposing upon them, those suffering people haven't put any thought whatsoever into understanding how that opposing force lives with itself, how it tells itself that what it's doing is alright, what grievances it sees that makes it act the way that it does.
It also assumes that the reason that force does what it does is lack of empathy—not lack of empathy from IT to OTHERS, but lack of empathy from OTHERS to IT. Which is all kinds of problematic, to say the least.
At a thing I went to this weekend, I met up with a friend where we discussed a recent situation of a guy saying something icky and receiving a lot of flak in response. My friend, who was much closer to the guy than I am, discussed Active Listening as a technique to defuse somebody else's misconceptions: making the effort to understand how they truly feel, and letting them know that you are invested in getting their account of the world right. So when you respond to them, they know that you care about genuinely reaching them—and you're also much better–equipped to do so, perception alone aside.
The problem with that approach, in most situations, is that Active Listening requires you to privilege one person's perspective above literally everything else. By its very nature, it requires that you make every concession necessary until you reach that common ground. This is exhausting, time–consuming, requires a great deal of emotional labor, and, unless that one person is genuinely the center of attention, is going to send a message to literally every other person in the conversation that their perspectives or experiences are less important here, regardless of accuracy or emotional need or whatever else.
I and many others in this thread (I presume) have a fascination with the distorted perspectives of many groups in America's political landscape. I mentioned my Trump–loving grandfather, whom I love deeply. I find Cruz and Rubio supporters really intriguing as well, and Kasich fans interesting on a whole nother level. #BernieOrBusters, of whom I know a decent number, interest me too. I DO care about why people see what they see, and have cared about that for years.
Which is part of why, I think, requests that we "see the world how [this other group] sees it" rankle so much. Because they make a lot of assumptions about how blinkered a rather large group of people are in their worldviews. Because they feed into the perception, fueled by a right–wing media, that the political left lives in ivory towers, completely disconnected from the state of the world as REAL Americans experience it. Because they do exactly what they accuse others of doing—assuming that none of us have the same lived experiences, or could possibly understand other perspectives on the world, because clearly we all belong to the same demographic group, the same economic class, the same region of the country, and so on and on and on.
It also rankles because, generally speaking, I share the political views I do because I think they've been formed out of a desire to include the most people. To empathize the most. To welcome as many people as can possibly welcomed into a single space, to listen to all of them, to let them have the voices that we're now being accused of not allowing.
The argument that, essentially, says that that entire group of people needs to understand what some other group of people thinks, as if that understanding isn't already occurring, as in any disagreement stems from some combination of ignorance and lack of empathy, feels simultaneously like a massive projection and a massive derail. And I say this as a person who made the same damn argument, to a similarly bemused group of people who I was trying hard to join, approximately three thousand times before something finally clicked with me and I went "oh SHIT" and blushed about seven different colors of red for a month straight. I may not be conceding a lot of ground here, but I truly am writing all of this with a lot of empathy and caring, because I've definitely been there before, and can pretty readily put myself into those shoes, and now am basically just writing out the thing I wish I'd read then.
Which is another reason I suspect people get somewhat charged over situations like this. Something tells me that most of us have been there before. It's a more familiar space than it might feel.
posted by rorgy at 6:03 AM on August 17, 2016 [44 favorites]
The way this usually goes is that someone thinks about Republicans and sees people who are like them in some way that's important to them, and when they think about Democrats they see people who are different from them in some way that's important to them.
Pinning this down to specific policy issues is, no insult intended, kind of a fool's quest since that doesn't seem to be where party ID comes from.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:03 AM on August 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
Pinning this down to specific policy issues is, no insult intended, kind of a fool's quest since that doesn't seem to be where party ID comes from.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:03 AM on August 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
So far Trump has spread himself thinly criticizing the media, the GOP, and the Republicans he defeated, but now it will be all Hillary, all the time.
If that's the case, it makes him more predictable and easier to strategize against. I'm sure the crazified chunk of the base will eat it up, but am unconvinced it will lead to larger gains in the polls. Tweeting "crooked Hillary" 400% more times every day isn't going to open any new doors at this point.
Pretty sure he'll keep taking shots at anyone that he feels has slighted him though. He seems physically incapable of letting anything slide.
posted by strange chain at 6:04 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
If that's the case, it makes him more predictable and easier to strategize against. I'm sure the crazified chunk of the base will eat it up, but am unconvinced it will lead to larger gains in the polls. Tweeting "crooked Hillary" 400% more times every day isn't going to open any new doors at this point.
Pretty sure he'll keep taking shots at anyone that he feels has slighted him though. He seems physically incapable of letting anything slide.
posted by strange chain at 6:04 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
They're even extremely pure supply side economics non-racist pro-science intellectual conservatives (note: they no longer identify as Republicans for many of the reasons stated above).Ok, but that's not who I'm talking about. I'm talking about people who were not intellectuals or libertarian ideologues and who would have been comfortable with some kinds of government spending and intervention, but who thought the Republicans better represented their interests and concerns. They thought the Democrats were about big cities (and their corrupt machines) and the Solid South, and the Republicans cared about ordinary people in middle America. There was always, I think, some ethnocentrism and anti-Catholicism and later racism associated with this perspective, but I don't think it was just that. (And for what it's worth, I know some Catholics and Irish-Americans who shared it.) And I think that it's possible to miss this if, like me, you're a hereditary Democrat who has always associated Republicans with bankers and country clubs.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:05 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments deleted. Don't make things personal, don't misrepresent what someone else is saying, and everyone, please, let's not make this all about one comment from Corb.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:05 AM on August 17, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 6:05 AM on August 17, 2016 [12 favorites]
Daniel Dale: Incredible. At Trump's rally about black people, one of the warm-up speakers was a state senator who wants to ignore Martin Luther King Day.posted by airish at 11:38 PM on August 16
That would be Wisconsin State Senator Glenn Grothman, who spoke openly about how the photo ID will help defeat Hillary.
He also hates Kwanzaa
I've never viewed the Clinton Campaign in the "What's in it for me personally" angle but she is not Republican and that fits my needs. The Republicans want to get rid of the EPA, the CDC, OSHA, and privatize Social Security. All of that scares me. Plus, the refusal to admit that Global Warming is a real thing and we should act now also scares me.
On a more positive note I feel like anything that helps the less fortunate in our society is going to help me personally because it will make our society a better place to live. I want to live in a world where we take care of the homeless and the disabled and the elderly and the mentally ill and children. Because family ties are dissolving, the government is going to have to step up to the plate.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:08 AM on August 17, 2016 [20 favorites]
May I clarify that the existence of Donald Trump is not solely the responsibility of the Republican Party. His acceptance as a con man and a crook because he is "entertaining" is a deep flaw of the American culture (and the unwillingness to hold him personally responsible for his many crimes was a precursor to the inability to prosecute anybody for the frauds that led to the 2008 economic near-meltdown). But it's the moral bankruptcy of the Republican party, not its baked-in bigotry or any other 'philosophical' issue, that appealed to this con man as the perfect 'mark' for his biggest cons. And the only reason he has any chance of winning in the general is not that there are so many bigots in this country, but that there are so many gullible fools trying to feed their own egos, and Trump knows how to provide the junk food.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:10 AM on August 17, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:10 AM on August 17, 2016 [19 favorites]
"Management triangle" is such an awkward phrase. Maybe we could call it a... troika?
Manage à trois?
posted by indubitable at 6:11 AM on August 17, 2016 [17 favorites]
Manage à trois?
posted by indubitable at 6:11 AM on August 17, 2016 [17 favorites]
Triumvirate is too close to "triumph." I suggest Failurvirate
posted by infinitewindow at 6:17 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by infinitewindow at 6:17 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
and the unwillingness to hold him personally responsible for his many crimes was a precursor to the inability to prosecute anybody for the frauds that led to the 2008 economic near-meltdown
I know Trump's a crook in a classical sense, and probably has committed all kinds of fraud, but, you know, when the other side is yelling LOCK HER UP, why don't we stick to innocent until proven guilty?
posted by dis_integration at 6:17 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
I know Trump's a crook in a classical sense, and probably has committed all kinds of fraud, but, you know, when the other side is yelling LOCK HER UP, why don't we stick to innocent until proven guilty?
posted by dis_integration at 6:17 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
On the other hand, I think what's happening now is that millenials are getting the idea that Republicans are the racist party, especially because of the nonsense against Obama and playing around with voter's rights.
Perhaps also because of the overt, y'know, racism.
posted by dersins at 6:20 AM on August 17, 2016 [27 favorites]
Perhaps also because of the overt, y'know, racism.
posted by dersins at 6:20 AM on August 17, 2016 [27 favorites]
Awkwardly enough, the lobbying group referenced in the article (the Podesta Group) was co-founded by Clinton's campaign Chair John Podesta and is currently chaired by his brother Tony. It appears from the article that John Podesta worked directly on this project, which may have violated FARA.
That could go a long way toward explaining why the Manafort thing isn't bigger news. The anti-Clinton press doesn't want to touch it for obvious reasons, the anti-Trump press won't touch it because it also links back to the Clinton campaign and the independent press... lol, just kidding, there is no independent press. This may be the last we hear about it, just like another incident of Russian money influencing a major presidential candidate.
posted by indubitable at 6:20 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
That could go a long way toward explaining why the Manafort thing isn't bigger news. The anti-Clinton press doesn't want to touch it for obvious reasons, the anti-Trump press won't touch it because it also links back to the Clinton campaign and the independent press... lol, just kidding, there is no independent press. This may be the last we hear about it, just like another incident of Russian money influencing a major presidential candidate.
posted by indubitable at 6:20 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
I wonder what the campaign playbook is for when the heads of both campaigns are involved in the same scandal. I guess we'll find out?
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:22 AM on August 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:22 AM on August 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
It's important to see other political parties from their point of view, because:
1. They might be right and you might be wrong.
2. Some or all of their supporters believe in the rightness of their cause, and knowing why is good.
3. Knowing how to talk to their supporters in their own language is also good
4, Healthy politics involves compromise. You get better deals if you understand the other side.
It also works against demonisation and othering.
For example, I think - hardly a new thought - that a lot of conservative support comes from fear of change and loss, and the longer you live the more changes accumulate and the more loss you feel. I have those fears too, but my self-identity and perception of the future is bound up in different ways. And then the change is happening to social structures that defined you, and the loss is of the benefits of inequality, all of which have sustained and nurtured you for your entire life, you're not going to respond to an agenda that maintains or accelerates those changes - unless it can demonstrate that this is not a zero-sum gain - but you will to one that says 'Yeah, you deserve to keep all that, and they don't deserve to try to change it".
And you work to find ways to address those fears that are compatible with, or even benefit from, managing the changes in a way that doesn't rely on reactionary fear.
posted by Devonian at 6:23 AM on August 17, 2016 [16 favorites]
1. They might be right and you might be wrong.
2. Some or all of their supporters believe in the rightness of their cause, and knowing why is good.
3. Knowing how to talk to their supporters in their own language is also good
4, Healthy politics involves compromise. You get better deals if you understand the other side.
It also works against demonisation and othering.
For example, I think - hardly a new thought - that a lot of conservative support comes from fear of change and loss, and the longer you live the more changes accumulate and the more loss you feel. I have those fears too, but my self-identity and perception of the future is bound up in different ways. And then the change is happening to social structures that defined you, and the loss is of the benefits of inequality, all of which have sustained and nurtured you for your entire life, you're not going to respond to an agenda that maintains or accelerates those changes - unless it can demonstrate that this is not a zero-sum gain - but you will to one that says 'Yeah, you deserve to keep all that, and they don't deserve to try to change it".
And you work to find ways to address those fears that are compatible with, or even benefit from, managing the changes in a way that doesn't rely on reactionary fear.
posted by Devonian at 6:23 AM on August 17, 2016 [16 favorites]
No see the joke is that the "troika" of the Party, the military, and the KGB was a traditional way to describe how the USSR was actually governed... and Manafort is connected to the reformed KGB... so funny ensues...
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:23 AM on August 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:23 AM on August 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
I think this is the Hand of Roger Ailes at work. This is him using Trump to sharpen Breitbart.com into the harpoon he'll use to slay the network that ousted him. Breitbart becomes the new voice of the right while FOX is blamed as part of the "crooked media" that had it out for Trump since the beginning.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:24 AM on August 17, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:24 AM on August 17, 2016 [18 favorites]
That could go a long way toward explaining why the Manafort thing isn't bigger news. The anti-Clinton press doesn't want to touch it for obvious reasons, the anti-Trump press won't touch it because it also links back to the Clinton campaign and the independent press... lol, just kidding, there is no independent press. This may be the last we hear about it, just like another incident of Russian money influencing a major presidential candidate.
So basically, everyone is in hock to the Russians? I guess this shouldn't be surprising since Russia is, after all, rather large and fairly wealthy, and American relations with Russia are a big deal. This is precisely what disturbs me when I hear unchecked enthusiasm for rich political leaders - past a certain point of wealth, virtually everyone has some very unpleasant interests of which they must be fully conscious*, because extreme wealth only comes from unpleasant stuff.
*A bit different from "you are solidly middle class and your 401K is into some bad stuff" - that's not heartening, but it's not the same as actively supporting bad actors.
posted by Frowner at 6:27 AM on August 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
So basically, everyone is in hock to the Russians?
Manafort is in hock to the Russians directly as well as anyone who wants his campaign expertise, Podesta is in hock to anyone* with the money to pay for lobbying expertise. Whatever lawyer approved the decision not to declare this to the DOJ was either misled or is a yes-man type without a backbone.
*Perhaps the Podesta Group has some ethical line beyond which they won't take on a client, I don't know. My experience of these kinds of lobbying groups suggests otherwise, and it didn't stop them in this case.
posted by sallybrown at 6:37 AM on August 17, 2016
Manafort is in hock to the Russians directly as well as anyone who wants his campaign expertise, Podesta is in hock to anyone* with the money to pay for lobbying expertise. Whatever lawyer approved the decision not to declare this to the DOJ was either misled or is a yes-man type without a backbone.
*Perhaps the Podesta Group has some ethical line beyond which they won't take on a client, I don't know. My experience of these kinds of lobbying groups suggests otherwise, and it didn't stop them in this case.
posted by sallybrown at 6:37 AM on August 17, 2016
Me on waking up and finding out Breitbart's Steven Bannon is in charge of the Trump campaign.
posted by Talez at 6:39 AM on August 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Talez at 6:39 AM on August 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
I think this is the Hand of Roger Ailes at work. This is him using Trump to sharpen Breitbart.com into the harpoon he'll use to slay the network that ousted him. Breitbart becomes the new voice of the right while FOX is blamed as part of the "crooked media" that had it out for Trump since the beginning.
It makes sense because obviously Roger Ailes doesn't actually care about winning elections, he's about airing grievances, identifying enemies, and taking vengeance.
I suspect Fox News is now his #1 target.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:44 AM on August 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
It makes sense because obviously Roger Ailes doesn't actually care about winning elections, he's about airing grievances, identifying enemies, and taking vengeance.
I suspect Fox News is now his #1 target.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:44 AM on August 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Newsweek: Hillary Clinton’s old girls’ network:
For the past 40 years, Hillary Clinton has surrounded herself with deeply loyal women—political pros, many of them a little younger than her—and they often seem to have been selected for their diversity—black, brown, Latino, Muslim, Jewish—as much as their gender and brains. Among the closest longtime female politicos are ad guru Mandy Grunwald, lawyer Cheryl Mills, former Chief of Staff Maggie Williams and aide Huma Abedin.posted by palindromic at 6:45 AM on August 17, 2016 [22 favorites]
[...]
Many in the Clinton circle were, like her, “firsts.” A close high school buddy was the flight attendant who led the fight against airline gender discrimination. Another was the first in her business school.
Some made their own fortunes, some inherited money or married rich, but all started writing big checks at a time—not that long ago—when men handled that dirty business. Clinton’s top female donors now rank among the 150 most generous givers—who are still mostly male—to Clinton super PACs. That is a mark of dubious distinction in the era of Citizens United, but a milestone in the rise of female political power.
I really think that a lot of R leaning people change their minds when policy becomes personal to them. My parents bucked the trend of both their families and became very conservative when they were in the Navy and my mother joined the Catholic church (followed by my father). I can remember my mom being super anti ERA and making snide remarks about working mothers when I was in elementary school. They were living the Eisenhower dream of working dad, stay at home mom, homeowners, church going, kids in Catholic school. And I followed them right into that mindset, voting Reagan then Bush then Bush again.
Then I got divorced. And needed student loans to go to college so I could support my kids. And there were federal funds to help pay daycare for my kids so I could go to college full time. And the earned income credit they saw me get when I only worked part time for minimum wage ($4.25 an hour then). That's when my father actually said "This makes me not mind at all paying taxes. This is what it's for."
We are all solidly middle middle class, climbing up from working/lower middle class. My parents had pensions that would have been completely wiped out due to Lehman Brothers if there hadn't been a bailout. They have been able to keep their house and pay their prescription bills when they hit the donut hole. I've been able to buy a house, be a stay at home mom most of the time (since remarrying). I've been very lucky but also got here because other people felt that rather than judging a single mom, investing in her was a better use of their taxes. It raised not just ME up, but my kids as well.
Those kids are now adults (mostly) and 2 are in public service. Nobody seems to think that their taxes should go to pay my teacher daughter more than a subsistence wage, or that they should supply her classroom with pencils, new textbooks, crayons, paper, kleenex or a rug for the kids to sit on. They don't think their taxes should pay part of her health insurance like private sector employers do, so she has to put off having a family until she or her husband can get a different job with better benefits. But they sure do think that they need 4 computers for the kids to take tests on. My son is a police officer. He makes a living wage but has nothing left to save for a down payment on a house. Or for a college fund for his kids. He has paid out of pocket for further education for more certifications so he can hopefully move up in the department. Instead of investing in quality candidates for the police force, the city council has instead kept trying to defund their pensions.
TL;DR Republicans tend to stay Republicans until they see how Dem policies actually are more beneficial to them personally.
posted by hollygoheavy at 6:47 AM on August 17, 2016 [70 favorites]
Then I got divorced. And needed student loans to go to college so I could support my kids. And there were federal funds to help pay daycare for my kids so I could go to college full time. And the earned income credit they saw me get when I only worked part time for minimum wage ($4.25 an hour then). That's when my father actually said "This makes me not mind at all paying taxes. This is what it's for."
We are all solidly middle middle class, climbing up from working/lower middle class. My parents had pensions that would have been completely wiped out due to Lehman Brothers if there hadn't been a bailout. They have been able to keep their house and pay their prescription bills when they hit the donut hole. I've been able to buy a house, be a stay at home mom most of the time (since remarrying). I've been very lucky but also got here because other people felt that rather than judging a single mom, investing in her was a better use of their taxes. It raised not just ME up, but my kids as well.
Those kids are now adults (mostly) and 2 are in public service. Nobody seems to think that their taxes should go to pay my teacher daughter more than a subsistence wage, or that they should supply her classroom with pencils, new textbooks, crayons, paper, kleenex or a rug for the kids to sit on. They don't think their taxes should pay part of her health insurance like private sector employers do, so she has to put off having a family until she or her husband can get a different job with better benefits. But they sure do think that they need 4 computers for the kids to take tests on. My son is a police officer. He makes a living wage but has nothing left to save for a down payment on a house. Or for a college fund for his kids. He has paid out of pocket for further education for more certifications so he can hopefully move up in the department. Instead of investing in quality candidates for the police force, the city council has instead kept trying to defund their pensions.
TL;DR Republicans tend to stay Republicans until they see how Dem policies actually are more beneficial to them personally.
posted by hollygoheavy at 6:47 AM on August 17, 2016 [70 favorites]
I'm gay. My parents were gay. I watched my father die of AIDS while the Republican Party made jokes about the epidemic, when they acknowledged it at all.
Like rorgy said very, very well, I'm aware of the worldview of people who identify with the image of conservatism and the Republican Party. It would be almost impossible not to be, unless you'd grown up isolated from all media. That has been the privileged identity as long as I've been alive.
And those are the people who looked at my dying father and decided he was less than human. Who still argue, in ignorance and awareness, that people who do not fit their image are less than.
There are few things that scare or sadden me more than people identify with that, no matter the reason.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:49 AM on August 17, 2016 [42 favorites]
Like rorgy said very, very well, I'm aware of the worldview of people who identify with the image of conservatism and the Republican Party. It would be almost impossible not to be, unless you'd grown up isolated from all media. That has been the privileged identity as long as I've been alive.
And those are the people who looked at my dying father and decided he was less than human. Who still argue, in ignorance and awareness, that people who do not fit their image are less than.
There are few things that scare or sadden me more than people identify with that, no matter the reason.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:49 AM on August 17, 2016 [42 favorites]
Is there a word, German maybe, that describes being so astounded at absurdity and the ridiculous nature of something that is supposed to be serious that you just get overwhelmed at trying to process it as reality and feel like laughing, swearing and falling into despair all that the same time?
Talez's South Park 'da fuck' link comes fairly close to to feeling but there has to be a word or phrase out there somewhere.
posted by Jalliah at 6:49 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Talez's South Park 'da fuck' link comes fairly close to to feeling but there has to be a word or phrase out there somewhere.
posted by Jalliah at 6:49 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
I've been very lucky but also got here because other people felt that rather than judging a single mom, investing in her was a better use of their taxes.
This is beautifully said, thank you.
posted by sallybrown at 6:52 AM on August 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
This is beautifully said, thank you.
posted by sallybrown at 6:52 AM on August 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
Manafort is in hock to the Russians directly as well as anyone who wants his campaign expertise, Podesta is in hock to anyone* with the money to pay for lobbying expertise.
How is it that Manafort is "in hock to the Russians" when they are paying for his campaign consulting expertise, but Podesta is "in hock to anyone" (as if that is less skeevy?) who pays for his lobbying expertise. You create a distinction here, but I can't see why.
posted by indubitable at 6:53 AM on August 17, 2016
How is it that Manafort is "in hock to the Russians" when they are paying for his campaign consulting expertise, but Podesta is "in hock to anyone" (as if that is less skeevy?) who pays for his lobbying expertise. You create a distinction here, but I can't see why.
posted by indubitable at 6:53 AM on August 17, 2016
Manafort, in a statement, said that he is sure the additions will “undoubtedly help take the campaign to new levels of success.”Note that he did not say whether the new levels would be higher or lower than the old levels.
posted by dfan at 6:54 AM on August 17, 2016 [15 favorites]
TL;DR Republicans tend to stay Republicans until they see how Dem policies actually are more beneficial to them personally.
I'm always amazed by my friends who identify as libertarian because of the absolute hodgepodge of stances they take on issues. I have found the connecting thread on what pushes them towards more progressive stances is, without fail, "I or someone I care about was directly affected by this." And it drives me nuts that they can never extrapolate beyond that to other issues.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:54 AM on August 17, 2016 [14 favorites]
I'm always amazed by my friends who identify as libertarian because of the absolute hodgepodge of stances they take on issues. I have found the connecting thread on what pushes them towards more progressive stances is, without fail, "I or someone I care about was directly affected by this." And it drives me nuts that they can never extrapolate beyond that to other issues.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:54 AM on August 17, 2016 [14 favorites]
Manafort has a pre-Ukraine history of being in hock to other people too, so he's not a Russian partisan specifically. That's just his Latest and Greatest. He seems to be perfectly happy taking money from any number of brutal dictators and strongmen.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:54 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:54 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
This big news related to the Affordable Care Act will be getting some campaign play.
Aetna joins other major insurers in pulling back from Obamacare:
Jonathan Cohn and Jeffrey Young at HuffPo: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger:
Richard Mayhew at Balloon Juice: Aetna, cynicism and Pennsylvania :
Aetna joins other major insurers in pulling back from Obamacare:
Insurance giant Aetna will stop selling health insurance through most of the exchanges created by the Affordable Care Act in 2017 because the company said it is losing money in many of those markets.
On Monday, Aetna said it will sell individual insurance policies in only 242 counties in four states, down almost 70 percent from the 778 counties in 15 states where the company markets Obamacare plans this year.
Jonathan Cohn and Jeffrey Young at HuffPo: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger:
Aetna officials said the pullout was necessary because of Obamacare’s problems ― specifically, deep losses the insurer was incurring in the law’s health insurance exchanges.
But the move also was directly related to a Department of Justice decision to block the insurer’s potentially lucrative merger with Humana, according to a letter from Aetna’s CEO obtained by The Huffington Post.
Richard Mayhew at Balloon Juice: Aetna, cynicism and Pennsylvania :
Aetna was profitable in 2015 in the individual market in Pennsylvania. It is projecting to be profitable in 2017. The filing memo was drafted in late May and submitted to the Pennsylvania regulators in early June. Conditions have not changed enough to make Pennsylvania a money loser in under two months.posted by palindromic at 7:00 AM on August 17, 2016 [35 favorites]
My wee bit of cynicism bears fruit. Aetna is trying to logroll an anti-competetive merger with on-Exchange political consequences. If it works for Aetna/Humana it burns a bridge to get the merger, and if it fails, it puts Aetna on the shitlist of any Democratic administration. That is a very interesting strategy when it is highly likely that there will be another Democratic administration.
Mod note: A few deleted. As I asked earlier, let's skip making the entire discussion now about Corb's comment, and comments about other peoples' comments about Corb's comment, etc. and etc. and etc.
posted by taz (staff) at 7:01 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 7:01 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
BREAKING: memo obtained by @thetimes says Manafort laid groundwork for annexation of Crimea. (Screen cap and interpretation from a Clinton spokesperson. Can't access The Times directly because paywall.)
posted by maudlin at 7:01 AM on August 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by maudlin at 7:01 AM on August 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
The Podesta Group and Davis Manafort, Inc. are basically morally indistinguishable as aiders and abetters of rotten people and corporate do-baddery worldwide. Welcome to the globalization of capital. The Clintons' connections to Podesta are one of those things that make leftists deeply suspicious of their commitments to progressivism.
posted by dis_integration at 7:02 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 7:02 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
[A few deleted. As I asked earlier, let's skip making the entire discussion now about Corb's comment, and comments about other peoples' comments about Corb's comment, etc. and etc. and etc.]
I have a comment about that I'd like to share.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:03 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
I have a comment about that I'd like to share.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:03 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Newsweek revisit Trump's bizarre probably-self-penned doctors note.
posted by Artw at 7:03 AM on August 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 7:03 AM on August 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Manage à trois?
Tres Leeches
Triumvirus?
posted by like_neon at 7:04 AM on August 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
Tres Leeches
Triumvirus?
posted by like_neon at 7:04 AM on August 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
Why does everything happen at 3:00 am?!
It makes more sense if you think of it as 10am Moscow time.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:05 AM on August 17, 2016 [77 favorites]
It makes more sense if you think of it as 10am Moscow time.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:05 AM on August 17, 2016 [77 favorites]
Aetna officials said the pullout was necessary because of Obamacare’s problems ― specifically, deep losses the insurer was incurring in the law’s health insurance exchanges.
But the move also was directly related to a Department of Justice decision to block the insurer’s potentially lucrative merger with Humana, according to a letter from Aetna’s CEO obtained by The Huffington Post.
Aetna was profitable in 2015 in the individual market in Pennsylvania. It is projecting to be profitable in 2017. The filing memo was drafted in late May and submitted to the Pennsylvania regulators in early June. Conditions have not changed enough to make Pennsylvania a money loser in under two months.
"Who ya gonna believe? Me or your lyin' eyes?
posted by zombieflanders at 7:07 AM on August 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
But the move also was directly related to a Department of Justice decision to block the insurer’s potentially lucrative merger with Humana, according to a letter from Aetna’s CEO obtained by The Huffington Post.
Aetna was profitable in 2015 in the individual market in Pennsylvania. It is projecting to be profitable in 2017. The filing memo was drafted in late May and submitted to the Pennsylvania regulators in early June. Conditions have not changed enough to make Pennsylvania a money loser in under two months.
"Who ya gonna believe? Me or your lyin' eyes?
posted by zombieflanders at 7:07 AM on August 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
I desperately want to discuss the Aetna/ACA news. Is this the right forum? I don't want to contribute to a thread derail- I can see it both ways. Halp.
posted by narwhal at 7:07 AM on August 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by narwhal at 7:07 AM on August 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
"I or someone I care about was directly affected by this." And it drives me nuts that they can never extrapolate beyond that to other issues.
Nah, it's a consistent (if depressing) world view. "I only care about me and mine, screw everyone else." Sometimes that gets expanded when they (lose their job/find out a family member is gay/etc). But it's not that they are opening their eyes to the world around them, it's just ever so slightly expanding their myopic view to accommodate their new situation. It's still as selfish as always.
posted by Roommate at 7:09 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Nah, it's a consistent (if depressing) world view. "I only care about me and mine, screw everyone else." Sometimes that gets expanded when they (lose their job/find out a family member is gay/etc). But it's not that they are opening their eyes to the world around them, it's just ever so slightly expanding their myopic view to accommodate their new situation. It's still as selfish as always.
posted by Roommate at 7:09 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Almost certainly should be a new thread.
posted by Artw at 7:09 AM on August 17, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:09 AM on August 17, 2016 [11 favorites]
Newsweek revisit Trump's bizarre probably-self-penned doctors note.Related, with some actual medical expertise: "I’m a doctor; these are the things I find concerning with Trump’s medical letter"
posted by Bora Horza Gobuchul at 7:10 AM on August 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
Artw: "Almost certainly should be a new thread."
Working on it!
posted by Rhaomi at 7:11 AM on August 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
Working on it!
posted by Rhaomi at 7:11 AM on August 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
Thank you, thank you, Rhaomi!
posted by narwhal at 7:12 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by narwhal at 7:12 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
The Aetna thing is too important to languish at the bottom of this huge thread.
posted by indubitable at 7:12 AM on August 17, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by indubitable at 7:12 AM on August 17, 2016 [13 favorites]
Sometimes that gets expanded when they (lose their job/find out a family member is gay/etc). But it's not them opening their eyes to the world around them, it's just ever so slightly expanding their myopic view to accommodate their new situation. It's still as selfish as always.
posted by Roommate at 10:09 AM on August 17 [+] [!]
That's really not true, though. I think seeing policies play out in real life for yourself or your own family/friends can change how you view other people that you don't know. I don't think my parents are outliers that happened to change their fundamental views on taxes, gay rights, women's equality or right to choose. It makes "other people" more real and less a caricature. It increases empathy.
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:17 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Roommate at 10:09 AM on August 17 [+] [!]
That's really not true, though. I think seeing policies play out in real life for yourself or your own family/friends can change how you view other people that you don't know. I don't think my parents are outliers that happened to change their fundamental views on taxes, gay rights, women's equality or right to choose. It makes "other people" more real and less a caricature. It increases empathy.
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:17 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
Related, with some actual medical expertise: "I’m a doctor; these are the things I find concerning with Trump’s medical letter"
I love how he leaves "Also, the doctor who signed this was dead when the letter was produced" for last.
posted by corb at 7:20 AM on August 17, 2016 [24 favorites]
I love how he leaves "Also, the doctor who signed this was dead when the letter was produced" for last.
posted by corb at 7:20 AM on August 17, 2016 [24 favorites]
From the NYT Crimea piece:
the confrontation and division of society on ethnic and linguistic grounds is his
trick from the time of the elections in Angola and the Philippines.
You can see how this is not incompatible with the death spasms of the Southern Strategy. One of the warning signs of a post-Trump realignment of the far/alt.right would be them finding a way to encourage the rise of firebrand voices in parallel across demographics. I suspect part of the willingness to define BLM as a dangerous, terroristic organisation is the very deep desire by the white supremacists to have that sort of enemy. It's a classic mechanism to gain power through disruption, and evidently exactly how Manafort works,
posted by Devonian at 7:22 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
the confrontation and division of society on ethnic and linguistic grounds is his
trick from the time of the elections in Angola and the Philippines.
You can see how this is not incompatible with the death spasms of the Southern Strategy. One of the warning signs of a post-Trump realignment of the far/alt.right would be them finding a way to encourage the rise of firebrand voices in parallel across demographics. I suspect part of the willingness to define BLM as a dangerous, terroristic organisation is the very deep desire by the white supremacists to have that sort of enemy. It's a classic mechanism to gain power through disruption, and evidently exactly how Manafort works,
posted by Devonian at 7:22 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
I love how he leaves "Also, the doctor who signed this was dead when the letter was produced" for last.The doctor who died is just one of the two names on the letterhead. The doctor who signed it is the other one. It's weird but doesn't prove fraud or anything. It would have been nice if she were more explicit about this; I thought it was a smoking gun too at first.
posted by dfan at 7:23 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
Speaking of letters, I've been thinking about composing a big letter with citations, of all the things Trump has done and said that are terrible. Essentially the list of things that make the "0 days since" counter keep resetting to 0. Is there a list out there anybody has seen? It will be helpful for either sending, or referencing.
posted by cashman at 7:24 AM on August 17, 2016
posted by cashman at 7:24 AM on August 17, 2016
That's really not true, though.
Not for everyone, sure, but I was referring specifically to the type of people C'est la D.C. was talking about - someone who modifies their position on exactly one issue once that issue affects them directly, but never extrapolates this new found insight to other issues or oppressed/less fortunate people.
posted by Roommate at 7:25 AM on August 17, 2016
Not for everyone, sure, but I was referring specifically to the type of people C'est la D.C. was talking about - someone who modifies their position on exactly one issue once that issue affects them directly, but never extrapolates this new found insight to other issues or oppressed/less fortunate people.
posted by Roommate at 7:25 AM on August 17, 2016
Trump picking up that all important Serbian ultra-nationalist support:
"Trump is the alternative to globalization. He will destroy old centers of power in the United States and he is a supporter of Russia," Vojislav Seselj, head of the ultranationalist Serbian Radical Party, told Reuters reporters at the scene. Seselj, who was acquitted in March of war crimes by a U.N. tribunal, also said that Serbian Americans should vote for Trump
posted by Artw at 7:27 AM on August 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
"Trump is the alternative to globalization. He will destroy old centers of power in the United States and he is a supporter of Russia," Vojislav Seselj, head of the ultranationalist Serbian Radical Party, told Reuters reporters at the scene. Seselj, who was acquitted in March of war crimes by a U.N. tribunal, also said that Serbian Americans should vote for Trump
posted by Artw at 7:27 AM on August 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
That's really not true, though. I think seeing policies play out in real life for yourself or your own family/friends can change how you view other people that you don't know. I don't think my parents are outliers that happened to change their fundamental views on taxes, gay rights, women's equality or right to choose. It makes "other people" more real and less a caricature. It increases empathy.
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:17 AM on August 17 [+] [!]
I think the distinction is that it doesn't always seem to translate into the ability to make the leap to experiences or circumstances with which you have no personal experience, either directly or with people you care about. There are many oppressed groups of which I am not part, and there are (thankfully) many terrible circumstances of which I have no personal knowledge, but the myriad experiences I've had of being the other or having shitty luck or whatever tell me to shut up and listen when people who are different than me are talking about what their lives are like or what they need. I mean, it doesn't always work, but when I skip the listening part I at least know it's my failure. It's the generalization, in an almost abstract way, of that learning experience that seems to be missing.
It's literally about giving people you don't know the benefit of the doubt. I truly think it's that simple.
(Related: I think this is one of the reasons why we've seen such progress on gay rights vs so little progress on race. Lots of homophobic or intolerant people discovered, over the past twenty years, that they knew gay people they cared about, and that slowly started to work on them. Closeted gay people can be like sleeper agents that way, I guess.)
posted by schadenfrau at 7:27 AM on August 17, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:17 AM on August 17 [+] [!]
I think the distinction is that it doesn't always seem to translate into the ability to make the leap to experiences or circumstances with which you have no personal experience, either directly or with people you care about. There are many oppressed groups of which I am not part, and there are (thankfully) many terrible circumstances of which I have no personal knowledge, but the myriad experiences I've had of being the other or having shitty luck or whatever tell me to shut up and listen when people who are different than me are talking about what their lives are like or what they need. I mean, it doesn't always work, but when I skip the listening part I at least know it's my failure. It's the generalization, in an almost abstract way, of that learning experience that seems to be missing.
It's literally about giving people you don't know the benefit of the doubt. I truly think it's that simple.
(Related: I think this is one of the reasons why we've seen such progress on gay rights vs so little progress on race. Lots of homophobic or intolerant people discovered, over the past twenty years, that they knew gay people they cared about, and that slowly started to work on them. Closeted gay people can be like sleeper agents that way, I guess.)
posted by schadenfrau at 7:27 AM on August 17, 2016 [18 favorites]
I tried to have a sensible discussion with my son, who is 21 and seems to get all his information from the chans. He asked me why Hillary wanted to be president, like what did she hope to accomplish, that it was "weird" how she had no ideas or plans. I directed him to her website, where a million things are spelled out in great detail. He also repeated the idea that she is sick. I think it's funny that he thinks he's being so edgy, but he's being fed the same talking points as Fox News viewers.
posted by Biblio at 7:28 AM on August 17, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by Biblio at 7:28 AM on August 17, 2016 [19 favorites]
I think the honest thing to say is that some people change and some people don't. When a family member was dying of AIDS, my grandparents joined PFLAG--which they remained active in until their late 80s. When they gave me their 2004 PT Cruiser, it had an equality sticker on it. They'd voted for Nixon. At some point they realized they were wrong.
My mother... stopped short of announcing that he deserved it and was going to hell, but also made it clear to my brother and me when we were just kids that this was a shameful thing that we shouldn't tell other people about. She definitely believed that the AIDS crisis was something that really needed to be dealt with differently. She definitely didn't believe that gay people deserve to die. But she was able to stay a Republican because she saw that as a very narrow misstep from a party that otherwise is on the right track. She didn't hate that particular gay person and she wouldn't say she "hates" gay people generally but none of that altered her feeling that homosexuality is a deeper wrong than the Republican response to the AIDS crisis. Or whatever comes next. No matter how many times they screw up, she's got a few core principles she's not going to question, and she thinks that the Republicans are the party of those core principles.
posted by Sequence at 7:29 AM on August 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
My mother... stopped short of announcing that he deserved it and was going to hell, but also made it clear to my brother and me when we were just kids that this was a shameful thing that we shouldn't tell other people about. She definitely believed that the AIDS crisis was something that really needed to be dealt with differently. She definitely didn't believe that gay people deserve to die. But she was able to stay a Republican because she saw that as a very narrow misstep from a party that otherwise is on the right track. She didn't hate that particular gay person and she wouldn't say she "hates" gay people generally but none of that altered her feeling that homosexuality is a deeper wrong than the Republican response to the AIDS crisis. Or whatever comes next. No matter how many times they screw up, she's got a few core principles she's not going to question, and she thinks that the Republicans are the party of those core principles.
posted by Sequence at 7:29 AM on August 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
It is time for Hillary to whip out that devious and vile campaign ad technique that was used to defeat Sam Nunn in Georgia (a photo of Nunn morphed into a photo of Osama Bin Laden).
Fade in from black. A closeup photo of Donald Trump's face in an angry scowl that slowly morphs into the (enigmatically smiling) face of Vladimir Putin while playing quotes of him praising Putin over scary Russian-sounding music.
We are up against Breitbart and Roger Ailes here. I guarantee we will see Monica Lewinsky in Trump's forthcoming TV ad blitz. Hit them with their own flaming poo first.
posted by spitbull at 7:35 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Fade in from black. A closeup photo of Donald Trump's face in an angry scowl that slowly morphs into the (enigmatically smiling) face of Vladimir Putin while playing quotes of him praising Putin over scary Russian-sounding music.
We are up against Breitbart and Roger Ailes here. I guarantee we will see Monica Lewinsky in Trump's forthcoming TV ad blitz. Hit them with their own flaming poo first.
posted by spitbull at 7:35 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
But she was able to stay a Republican because she saw that as a very narrow misstep from a party that otherwise is on the right track.
You see how being able to view it that way is itself a massive privilege, right? And that those of us who are the target of those "missteps" really do not give a flying fuck what excuse people have for even passively supporting or enabling those "missteps," because it makes no difference to us why someone is allowing this to happen to us, just that they are?
That inherent in being able to see something like that as peripheral is the implicit ability to dismiss the people that peripheral thing is happening to? Not the thing--the people.
For all its many, many flaws, in my lifetime the Democratic Party has more often than not been on the side of actual people who were getting stepped on. And because of the way our electoral system works, you really can't support Republicans without supporting the boot on a whole lot of necks.
ETA: and I don't mean to speak for all oppressed, or whatever. But I grow very, very weary of attempts to equivocate or add nuance to something that is, at its core, rotten. I know it didn't feel rotten to a lot of people. But it was, and is. And I think it's dangerous to let that fact get lost in the discussion.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:35 AM on August 17, 2016 [27 favorites]
You see how being able to view it that way is itself a massive privilege, right? And that those of us who are the target of those "missteps" really do not give a flying fuck what excuse people have for even passively supporting or enabling those "missteps," because it makes no difference to us why someone is allowing this to happen to us, just that they are?
That inherent in being able to see something like that as peripheral is the implicit ability to dismiss the people that peripheral thing is happening to? Not the thing--the people.
For all its many, many flaws, in my lifetime the Democratic Party has more often than not been on the side of actual people who were getting stepped on. And because of the way our electoral system works, you really can't support Republicans without supporting the boot on a whole lot of necks.
ETA: and I don't mean to speak for all oppressed, or whatever. But I grow very, very weary of attempts to equivocate or add nuance to something that is, at its core, rotten. I know it didn't feel rotten to a lot of people. But it was, and is. And I think it's dangerous to let that fact get lost in the discussion.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:35 AM on August 17, 2016 [27 favorites]
I put up a quick FPP on the Aetna deal, for those that want to continue to discuss it there.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:40 AM on August 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 7:40 AM on August 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
Schadenfrau, are you really going out of your way to attack someone's mom? I don't think Sequence is even defending their mother's thought processes, just trying to explain them. I'm pretty sure the two of you are on the same side here.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:42 AM on August 17, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:42 AM on August 17, 2016 [19 favorites]
The contents of the National Security Briefing have leaked:
Top Five Threats to U.S. National Security
Top Five Threats to U.S. National Security
- The possibility of a Trump presidency.
- The possibility of a Trump presidency.
- The possibility of a Trump presidency.
- Climate change.
- The inexplicable enduring popularity of Taylor Swift.
Related: I think this is one of the reasons why we've seen such progress on gay rights vs so little progress on race. Lots of homophobic or intolerant people discovered, over the past twenty years, that they knew gay people they cared about, and that slowly started to work on them.
That, and individual people and businesses saw that there was no disadvantage in trealting LGBT people equally-in fact businesses could make money from them.
This is also why I think the struggle for feminism and women's rights has hit such resistance; ending harassment and unfair employment practices is seen as costing money and power by the privileged men.
posted by happyroach at 7:43 AM on August 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
That, and individual people and businesses saw that there was no disadvantage in trealting LGBT people equally-in fact businesses could make money from them.
This is also why I think the struggle for feminism and women's rights has hit such resistance; ending harassment and unfair employment practices is seen as costing money and power by the privileged men.
posted by happyroach at 7:43 AM on August 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
The inexplicable enduring popularity of Taylor Swift.
what no i will fight you
posted by dis_integration at 7:45 AM on August 17, 2016 [13 favorites]
what no i will fight you
posted by dis_integration at 7:45 AM on August 17, 2016 [13 favorites]
Trump picking up that all important Serbian ultra-nationalist support:
He should totally fly in Ceca to campaign for him.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:45 AM on August 17, 2016
He should totally fly in Ceca to campaign for him.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:45 AM on August 17, 2016
Schadenfrau, are you really going out of your way to attack someone's mom? I don't think Sequence is even defending their mother's thought processes, just trying to explain them. I'm pretty sure the two of you are on the same side here.
Nope, not going out of my way to attack someone's mom. But I am going to point out that that reasoning is pretty fucked up, because that reasoning continues to hurt people to this day. People are more than the sum of their positions and choices, and being on the whole a good person*, or a good mom, doesn't make the fucked up or bad choices you've made or positions you've held any better.
And you're kind of proving my exact point -- saying that pointing out the problems in that line of reasoning is out of line because it was someone's mom is...I mean, I don't totally know where to go with that? It would be fucked up no matter who did it, or believed it. It could be a literal saint and there would still be a moral problem with letting it lie.
*Leaving aside what it means in the general sense to be a good person on the whole. That's...outside the scope of what my brain can deal with
posted by schadenfrau at 7:46 AM on August 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
Nope, not going out of my way to attack someone's mom. But I am going to point out that that reasoning is pretty fucked up, because that reasoning continues to hurt people to this day. People are more than the sum of their positions and choices, and being on the whole a good person*, or a good mom, doesn't make the fucked up or bad choices you've made or positions you've held any better.
And you're kind of proving my exact point -- saying that pointing out the problems in that line of reasoning is out of line because it was someone's mom is...I mean, I don't totally know where to go with that? It would be fucked up no matter who did it, or believed it. It could be a literal saint and there would still be a moral problem with letting it lie.
*Leaving aside what it means in the general sense to be a good person on the whole. That's...outside the scope of what my brain can deal with
posted by schadenfrau at 7:46 AM on August 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
But I am going to point out that that reasoning is pretty fucked up
Wow, gosh, thanks, I'm sure that will convince Sequence's mom and she'll jump into her fucking time machine and change all of her old Republican votes.
posted by Etrigan at 7:49 AM on August 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
Wow, gosh, thanks, I'm sure that will convince Sequence's mom and she'll jump into her fucking time machine and change all of her old Republican votes.
posted by Etrigan at 7:49 AM on August 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
@EdwardGLuce - What we're seeing today is the birth of Trump News Network post-November 8 - not the rebooting of his campaign.
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:51 AM on August 17, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:51 AM on August 17, 2016 [16 favorites]
cashman: Hillary: Childcare costs as much as in-state tuition in many places.
For those without kids, I'll help you and mark this as [TRUE]. Right now, we're down to a mere $200 per week for our 19 month old, thanks to our 5 year old getting into kindergarten this year. And we're in New Mexico, which I wouldn't consider to be an overly expensive place for childcare. While $10k per year is cheap for college tuition, that's still TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS PER YEAR we don't have to invest in their future education. We can afford this, but we're a two-parent household, both working full-time.
Free childcare and free in-state tuition would be a HUGE boost to the US economy, as would universal healthcare. Take those financial concerns out of the picture for both families and small companies, and you've changed the economic landscape.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:52 AM on August 17, 2016 [37 favorites]
For those without kids, I'll help you and mark this as [TRUE]. Right now, we're down to a mere $200 per week for our 19 month old, thanks to our 5 year old getting into kindergarten this year. And we're in New Mexico, which I wouldn't consider to be an overly expensive place for childcare. While $10k per year is cheap for college tuition, that's still TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS PER YEAR we don't have to invest in their future education. We can afford this, but we're a two-parent household, both working full-time.
Free childcare and free in-state tuition would be a HUGE boost to the US economy, as would universal healthcare. Take those financial concerns out of the picture for both families and small companies, and you've changed the economic landscape.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:52 AM on August 17, 2016 [37 favorites]
Just for funsies I am going to keep opening previous election threads in new browser tabs until something interesting happens to my laptop. Also: day-drinking. See y'all in the next thread. Probly...
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:54 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:54 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
@EdwardGLuce - What we're seeing today is the birth of Trump News Network post-November 8 - not the rebooting of his campaign.
Trump presents a letter from Andrew Breitbart personally that appoints Trump the true heir of the Breitbart empire.
posted by Talez at 7:55 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
Trump presents a letter from Andrew Breitbart personally that appoints Trump the true heir of the Breitbart empire.
posted by Talez at 7:55 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
There is something supremely weird about the fact that the sticking point for some people in a discussion of whether someone's political views or actions are harmful is that the person being criticized is "a mom". Frankly, what relevance is that? Why is that the bridge too far?
I guess more generally, why do a lot of people act like the elderly popped into existence at age 65, and had nothing to do with the state of the world they live in? "Oh, she's just a kindly old mother/grandmother/aunt!". Bull. Shit. Nobody gets to old age without passing through a lifetime of engaging in and with society, politics, etc, and if the legacy of that engagement is negative, old age/motherhood/whatever are not a shield to hide behind.
posted by tocts at 7:56 AM on August 17, 2016 [13 favorites]
I guess more generally, why do a lot of people act like the elderly popped into existence at age 65, and had nothing to do with the state of the world they live in? "Oh, she's just a kindly old mother/grandmother/aunt!". Bull. Shit. Nobody gets to old age without passing through a lifetime of engaging in and with society, politics, etc, and if the legacy of that engagement is negative, old age/motherhood/whatever are not a shield to hide behind.
posted by tocts at 7:56 AM on August 17, 2016 [13 favorites]
Mod note: One comment removed, can you all please cool it a bit with the escalating argument about proxy-mom etc.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:57 AM on August 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:57 AM on August 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
Schadenfrau, I've mentioned this in other election threads, but obviously that was a million posts ago, but anyway--my mother and I are just barely on speaking terms. I'm not defending her. I don't even like her. I'm only not completely estranged from her in order to maintain contact with the rest of my family. So I don't know why you think I don't know that she's privileged. She's white and middle class and I'm trying to avoid speaking to her right now because I'm not going to be able to maintain this uneasy truce if I know she's voting for Trump, because my dad's side of the family is Mexican and that alone should have driven her away, but I don't think it will.
I'm not saying anything about her thought process is okay. But it's reality. This is life. Some people get better when confronted with the realities of the world. Some people don't. I can't fix her. I don't think anybody can fix her. Thank you for the incredible insensitivity here to my complicated family dynamics. It's not like this is already a difficult time for people in my position or something.
posted by Sequence at 7:57 AM on August 17, 2016 [21 favorites]
I'm not saying anything about her thought process is okay. But it's reality. This is life. Some people get better when confronted with the realities of the world. Some people don't. I can't fix her. I don't think anybody can fix her. Thank you for the incredible insensitivity here to my complicated family dynamics. It's not like this is already a difficult time for people in my position or something.
posted by Sequence at 7:57 AM on August 17, 2016 [21 favorites]
I've followed all the election threads pretty close but I gotta say this is probably the weirdest derail yet. Good work everyone!
posted by Tevin at 7:57 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Tevin at 7:57 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
It's important to see other political parties from their point of view, because:
...
4, Healthy politics involves compromise. You get better deals if you understand the other side.
I agree that healthy politics involves compromise, but tell it to the Republicans.
Let’s just say it: The Republicans are the problem.
Today, thanks to the GOP, compromise has gone out the window in Washington. In the first two years of the Obama administration, nearly every presidential initiative met with vehement, rancorous and unanimous Republican opposition in the House and the Senate, followed by efforts to delegitimize the results and repeal the policies. The filibuster, once relegated to a handful of major national issues in a given Congress, became a routine weapon of obstruction, applied even to widely supported bills or presidential nominations. And Republicans in the Senate have abused the confirmation process to block any and every nominee to posts such as the head of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, solely to keep laws that were legitimately enacted from being implemented.posted by kirkaracha at 7:57 AM on August 17, 2016 [29 favorites]
My mom's signature phrase is "It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice." My mom is the anti-Trump.
posted by sallybrown at 8:00 AM on August 17, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 8:00 AM on August 17, 2016 [17 favorites]
What we're seeing today is the birth of Trump News Network post-November 8 - not the rebooting of his campaign.
I wonder when he donates the campaign funds he doesn't spend to the Trump Foundation if he can run TNN through there. News is a public good, right?
posted by leotrotsky at 8:01 AM on August 17, 2016
I wonder when he donates the campaign funds he doesn't spend to the Trump Foundation if he can run TNN through there. News is a public good, right?
posted by leotrotsky at 8:01 AM on August 17, 2016
I'm not saying anything about her thought process is okay. But it's reality. This is life. Some people get better when confronted with the realities of the world. Some people don't. I can't fix her. I don't think anybody can fix her. Thank you for the incredible insensitivity here to my complicated family dynamics. It's not like this is already a difficult time for people in my position or something.
posted by Sequence at 7:57 AM on August 17 [+] [!]
I'm genuinely sorry for the difficulties with your family. Believe it or not, I can...very much relate. (My mom might be gay, but that doesn't mean she's a good person! Or...idk, an undamaged enough not to inflict damage on people around her person. And my extended family is an abusive, sometimes bigoted shitshow.)
And I think I must have misread your original comment, or misread the intent behind it. It read to me as an explanation turned justification for that line of reasoning. But I'm not even sure about using the word "misread," to be honest, because I don't see anything in your original comment about your relationship to any of this--I'm not sure how I would have been able to intuit your place in those family dynamics.
So instead it read as someone justifying the choices of the kind of person who made my father's life a living hell before he died.
On the whole I don't think I'm the one who should be accused -- or thanked for, as it were -- of insensitivity.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:05 AM on August 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Sequence at 7:57 AM on August 17 [+] [!]
I'm genuinely sorry for the difficulties with your family. Believe it or not, I can...very much relate. (My mom might be gay, but that doesn't mean she's a good person! Or...idk, an undamaged enough not to inflict damage on people around her person. And my extended family is an abusive, sometimes bigoted shitshow.)
And I think I must have misread your original comment, or misread the intent behind it. It read to me as an explanation turned justification for that line of reasoning. But I'm not even sure about using the word "misread," to be honest, because I don't see anything in your original comment about your relationship to any of this--I'm not sure how I would have been able to intuit your place in those family dynamics.
So instead it read as someone justifying the choices of the kind of person who made my father's life a living hell before he died.
On the whole I don't think I'm the one who should be accused -- or thanked for, as it were -- of insensitivity.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:05 AM on August 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
zombieflanders: More specifically 40% of Trump voters think that ACORN, which hasn't existed in years, will steal the election for Clinton
Oh good gawd damn. Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN)? It closed down in late 2010. SIX YEARS AGO.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:07 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
Oh good gawd damn. Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN)? It closed down in late 2010. SIX YEARS AGO.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:07 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
Hillary Clinton in Teen Vogue: Why Our Generation Is What's RIGHT With America
I'd like to see a timeline of which media outlets have featured both candidates. I imagine it would be quite telling.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:10 AM on August 17, 2016
I'd like to see a timeline of which media outlets have featured both candidates. I imagine it would be quite telling.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:10 AM on August 17, 2016
Oh good gawd damn. Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN)? It closed down in late 2010. SIX YEARS AGO.
It still survives in the shadows funded by the sale of aborted baby parts!
Oh shit was I not supposed to reveal that? I'm going to get so disciplined at our next secret liberal cabal meeting!
posted by Talez at 8:10 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
It still survives in the shadows funded by the sale of aborted baby parts!
Oh shit was I not supposed to reveal that? I'm going to get so disciplined at our next secret liberal cabal meeting!
posted by Talez at 8:10 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh good gawd damn. Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN)? It closed down in late 2010.
That's not that long ...
SIX YEARS AGO.
ARGH.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:11 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
That's not that long ...
SIX YEARS AGO.
ARGH.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:11 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
Kirkaracha - I was more referring to supporters of a party, not the party itself. Personally, I find the behaviour of the GOP in national government wretched beyond forgiveness, a cynical wrecking crew that border on treason.
posted by Devonian at 8:13 AM on August 17, 2016
posted by Devonian at 8:13 AM on August 17, 2016
It closed down in late 2010.
Right after the big mid-term GOP win. No way they were ever going to let go of that whipping horse just because it was dead AND buried.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:15 AM on August 17, 2016
Right after the big mid-term GOP win. No way they were ever going to let go of that whipping horse just because it was dead AND buried.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:15 AM on August 17, 2016
I was more referring to supporters of a party, not the party itself.
But at some point aren't supporters of a party accountable for the party's behavior?
posted by kirkaracha at 8:36 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
My mom's signature phrase is "If you can't say something nice, shut the fuck up."
posted by kirkaracha at 8:38 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 8:38 AM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
octothorpe: Nate Silver: Trump pivots 360 degrees. Innovative.
My fellow Americans, as a young boy I dreamed of being a baseball. But tonight I say we must move forward, not backward; upward, not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!
posted by filthy light thief at 8:54 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
My fellow Americans, as a young boy I dreamed of being a baseball. But tonight I say we must move forward, not backward; upward, not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!
posted by filthy light thief at 8:54 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Speaking of letters, I've been thinking about composing a big letter with citations, of all the things Trump has done and said that are terrible. Essentially the list of things that make the "0 days since" counter keep resetting to 0. Is there a list out there anybody has seen? It will be helpful for either sending, or referencing.
They're out of date already, but here are some:
A final response to the "Tell me why Trump is a fascist on reddit, is actually a really good list of the most horrible things he's proposed, with cites.
183 Things Donald Trump Has Said and Done That Make Him Unfit to Be President on Slate, has more of his horrible insults along with the dangerous policies.
Trump Literally Said All Those Things on Hillary Clinton's web site is an annotated version of the foreign policy speech she gave listing a whole bunch of horrible things he's said about foreign policy. He then accused her on twitter of lying, so her team put up the text with exact Trump quotes and their sources, supporting her points.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:35 AM on August 17, 2016 [26 favorites]
They're out of date already, but here are some:
A final response to the "Tell me why Trump is a fascist on reddit, is actually a really good list of the most horrible things he's proposed, with cites.
183 Things Donald Trump Has Said and Done That Make Him Unfit to Be President on Slate, has more of his horrible insults along with the dangerous policies.
Trump Literally Said All Those Things on Hillary Clinton's web site is an annotated version of the foreign policy speech she gave listing a whole bunch of horrible things he's said about foreign policy. He then accused her on twitter of lying, so her team put up the text with exact Trump quotes and their sources, supporting her points.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:35 AM on August 17, 2016 [26 favorites]
Speaking of letters, I've been thinking about composing a big letter with citations,
There are also these "open letters" from Republican (!) national security officials on why they think Trump is a danger to our national security...
This one from March with 121 signers
And this one from 50 more senior officials earlier this month.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:42 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
There are also these "open letters" from Republican (!) national security officials on why they think Trump is a danger to our national security...
This one from March with 121 signers
And this one from 50 more senior officials earlier this month.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:42 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
You guys! I met EatTheWeak today thanks to this thread. It's a Trumpsmas Miracle brought to you by Santa Matt, metal, and insane election threads. He is a solid dude and we should get him to a Seattle meetup soon.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 5:27 PM on August 14
Want to holler back at this shoutout from a million comments ago. This was an awesome moment that took place when I was taking a relaxing break from stressing out about the election by working a three day heavy metal show in a hundred year old theater with no air conditioning. Special Agent Dale Cooper is also a solud dude and I wish we would have had more time to chat, but I had too much work to do.
It's tough to express just how essential the MeFi refuge has been for me this election. I've felt like a man without a country in my sanctimonious lefty college town for months - a feeling which I thought I'd left behind in the proudly backwards "Real America" small town I grew up in. That's where I am now, on vacation after a long, exhausting year at work. I'm happy to report that in this sector of Red Washington State, the only Trump sign I've seen was a big wooden one which looked like someone had taken a bat or a sledgehammer to - only the "Ump / ence" portion of the letters remained intact. Don't know if this was vandalism or the sign erector having a change of heart, but I'm glad that I have yet to see The Yam's full name displayed anywhere around here so far.
Okay, time to read all the comments I've missed here from the bottom up. It was great to meet a Mefite in the wild. I'll be keeping an eye on the IRL page for Seattle meetups from here on in.
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:24 AM on August 17, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 5:27 PM on August 14
Want to holler back at this shoutout from a million comments ago. This was an awesome moment that took place when I was taking a relaxing break from stressing out about the election by working a three day heavy metal show in a hundred year old theater with no air conditioning. Special Agent Dale Cooper is also a solud dude and I wish we would have had more time to chat, but I had too much work to do.
It's tough to express just how essential the MeFi refuge has been for me this election. I've felt like a man without a country in my sanctimonious lefty college town for months - a feeling which I thought I'd left behind in the proudly backwards "Real America" small town I grew up in. That's where I am now, on vacation after a long, exhausting year at work. I'm happy to report that in this sector of Red Washington State, the only Trump sign I've seen was a big wooden one which looked like someone had taken a bat or a sledgehammer to - only the "Ump / ence" portion of the letters remained intact. Don't know if this was vandalism or the sign erector having a change of heart, but I'm glad that I have yet to see The Yam's full name displayed anywhere around here so far.
Okay, time to read all the comments I've missed here from the bottom up. It was great to meet a Mefite in the wild. I'll be keeping an eye on the IRL page for Seattle meetups from here on in.
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:24 AM on August 17, 2016 [12 favorites]
I tried to have a sensible discussion with my son, who is 21 and seems to get all his information from the chans. He asked me why Hillary wanted to be president, like what did she hope to accomplish, that it was "weird" how she had no ideas or plans. I directed him to her website, where a million things are spelled out in great detail. He also repeated the idea that she is sick. I think it's funny that he thinks he's being so edgy, but he's being fed the same talking points as Fox News viewers.
My Trump supporting friend (yes, actual friend) had the same complaints about Bernie Sanders.
"He has no policy plans!"
*I point out his website.*
"It's so confusing!"
*link to his actual policies.*
"It won't load on my computer!"
*cut and paste actual Bernie policy details on this FB thread this is being discussed in, in many inline comments.*
"....Oh."
posted by spinifex23 at 10:50 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
My Trump supporting friend (yes, actual friend) had the same complaints about Bernie Sanders.
"He has no policy plans!"
*I point out his website.*
"It's so confusing!"
*link to his actual policies.*
"It won't load on my computer!"
*cut and paste actual Bernie policy details on this FB thread this is being discussed in, in many inline comments.*
"....Oh."
posted by spinifex23 at 10:50 AM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
I've been thinking about composing a big letter with citations, of all the things Trump has done and said that are terrible.
Something which doesn't appear on any of those lists of Trump-horrors above, as far as I know, but should, is the threats to NeverTrump delegates. One of the commenters on the reddit link provides the following stories...
Trump delegates (thugs) threaten Utah delegate at Republican National Convention:
http://www.sltrib.com/home/4130621-155/you-should-die-trump-supporters-threaten
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/07/19/utah-delegate-says-was-threatened-in-bathroom-after-anti-trump-push.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/gop-delegate-threats-trump_us_578da738e4b0a0ae97c33672
http://kutv.com/news/local/utah-delegates-have-life-threatened-on-rnc
Trump Supporters Accused of Bullying Delegates who Won't Fall in Line:
https://theintercept.com/2016/07/19/trump-supporters-accused-of-bullying-delegates-who-dont-fall-in-line/
Then there's the time Roger Stone threatened to publish the hotel room numbers of delegates that didn't vote for Trump and the time Trump suggested there would be riots if he was denied the nomination.
And then we have corb's reports: If you're curious what kind of threats were used against delegates, they included "The Trump campaign will remember your name. Trump will act against you and your state when he is elected if you don't withdraw."
Those stories somehow haven't made it onto many of the lists, but they're among the most terrifying to me.
A lot of the Putin stuff isn't really captured on those lists either, nor the child rape allegations, and they don't capture the accusations of fraud and crime dating back to before the campaign.
Probably because lists of things he's said in public and can't deny are simply easier to defend than allegations of things he has done, that he does deny. And the things he's said should be more than sufficient reason by themselves not to vote for him. But if you're trying to compile a complete list of things said and done...
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:00 AM on August 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
Something which doesn't appear on any of those lists of Trump-horrors above, as far as I know, but should, is the threats to NeverTrump delegates. One of the commenters on the reddit link provides the following stories...
Trump delegates (thugs) threaten Utah delegate at Republican National Convention:
http://www.sltrib.com/home/4130621-155/you-should-die-trump-supporters-threaten
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/07/19/utah-delegate-says-was-threatened-in-bathroom-after-anti-trump-push.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/gop-delegate-threats-trump_us_578da738e4b0a0ae97c33672
http://kutv.com/news/local/utah-delegates-have-life-threatened-on-rnc
Trump Supporters Accused of Bullying Delegates who Won't Fall in Line:
https://theintercept.com/2016/07/19/trump-supporters-accused-of-bullying-delegates-who-dont-fall-in-line/
Then there's the time Roger Stone threatened to publish the hotel room numbers of delegates that didn't vote for Trump and the time Trump suggested there would be riots if he was denied the nomination.
And then we have corb's reports: If you're curious what kind of threats were used against delegates, they included "The Trump campaign will remember your name. Trump will act against you and your state when he is elected if you don't withdraw."
Those stories somehow haven't made it onto many of the lists, but they're among the most terrifying to me.
A lot of the Putin stuff isn't really captured on those lists either, nor the child rape allegations, and they don't capture the accusations of fraud and crime dating back to before the campaign.
Probably because lists of things he's said in public and can't deny are simply easier to defend than allegations of things he has done, that he does deny. And the things he's said should be more than sufficient reason by themselves not to vote for him. But if you're trying to compile a complete list of things said and done...
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:00 AM on August 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
Video evidence of Ben Shapiro calling Trump himself a "turd tornado" on CNN [real]. I had to see this for myself to believe it.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:04 AM on August 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:04 AM on August 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry for being such a completist, but there is one more outrage that I think somehow got missed on all those lists and shouldn't be -- "One of the first things I do, in terms of executive order if I win, will be to sign a strong, strong statement that will go out to the country -- out to the world -- that anybody killing a policeman, policewoman, a police officer -- anybody killing a police officer, the death penalty. It's going to happen, OK?"
Yes, because that's something you can do by executive order! Never mind the states that have outlawed the death penalty. Never mind that the federal government has no jurisdiction over most such crimes. Never mind that judges and juries are supposed to set sentences...
It just shows his absolute disrespect for the constitution, and I hate that he almost never gets called on it. So if anyone makes a comprehensive list combining all these other lists, they should put that on it too.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:39 AM on August 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yes, because that's something you can do by executive order! Never mind the states that have outlawed the death penalty. Never mind that the federal government has no jurisdiction over most such crimes. Never mind that judges and juries are supposed to set sentences...
It just shows his absolute disrespect for the constitution, and I hate that he almost never gets called on it. So if anyone makes a comprehensive list combining all these other lists, they should put that on it too.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:39 AM on August 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yes, because that's something you can do by executive order! Never mind the states that have outlawed the death penalty. Never mind that the federal government has no jurisdiction over most such crimes. Never mind that judges and juries are supposed toset sentences... It just shows his absolute disrepect for the constitution, and I hate that he almost never gets called on it.
All that, and SCOTUS has held that a mandatory sentence of death is per se improper; the jury (or finder of fact) must weigh the aggravating and mitigating factors (Lockett v. Ohio, 438 U.S. 586 (1978), for all you SCOTUS geeks out there). So, yeah, no surprise, but this would be just completely unconstitutional, in addition to all the jurisdictional stuff.
posted by holborne at 11:48 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
All that, and SCOTUS has held that a mandatory sentence of death is per se improper; the jury (or finder of fact) must weigh the aggravating and mitigating factors (Lockett v. Ohio, 438 U.S. 586 (1978), for all you SCOTUS geeks out there). So, yeah, no surprise, but this would be just completely unconstitutional, in addition to all the jurisdictional stuff.
posted by holborne at 11:48 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Is he a standup comedian or on tv or anything?
In case anyone else is wondering like Cookiebastard, Owen Ellickson is a writer/producer of of King of Queens, The Office, and a few other shows. I thought someone else may have mentioned it before, but if they did it's buried under mounds of comments.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 11:57 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
In case anyone else is wondering like Cookiebastard, Owen Ellickson is a writer/producer of of King of Queens, The Office, and a few other shows. I thought someone else may have mentioned it before, but if they did it's buried under mounds of comments.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 11:57 AM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Hillary Clinton Appoints Ken Salazar To Lead White House Transition
Why Did Clinton Just Tap a Pro-TPP, Pro-KXL, Pro-Fracking Politician to Head Her Transition Team?
posted by homunculus at 12:08 PM on August 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
Why Did Clinton Just Tap a Pro-TPP, Pro-KXL, Pro-Fracking Politician to Head Her Transition Team?
posted by homunculus at 12:08 PM on August 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
Maybe they saw the way the Trump campaign is hiring with their latest shakeup, and trying to mirror that level of chutzpah.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:20 PM on August 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Apocryphon at 2:20 PM on August 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
The transition team's job is to, literally, oversee the transition of the executive branch from one President to the next. It is an organizational / administrative thing, not a policy thing. Salazar's position on TPP or whatever is utterly fucking irrelevant.
posted by dersins at 3:02 PM on August 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by dersins at 3:02 PM on August 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
The transition team's job is to, literally, oversee the transition of the executive branch from one President to the next. It is an organizational / administrative thing, not a policy thing. Salazar's position on TPP or whatever is utterly fucking irrelevant.
You make it sound like his job will be to call the moving company. His job will be to organize and oversee the selection of cabinet officials and other administrative positions in the new administration. So it matters who his first choices are, what personnel he's going to suggest for appointment to different posts, and his policy positions are going to affect those choices.
posted by dis_integration at 3:14 PM on August 17, 2016 [11 favorites]
You make it sound like his job will be to call the moving company. His job will be to organize and oversee the selection of cabinet officials and other administrative positions in the new administration. So it matters who his first choices are, what personnel he's going to suggest for appointment to different posts, and his policy positions are going to affect those choices.
posted by dis_integration at 3:14 PM on August 17, 2016 [11 favorites]
The Clintons' connections to Podesta are one of those things that make leftists deeply suspicious of their commitments to progressivism.
This very much. And my spouse (who worked the 90s Clinton campaign and has kept up with the names) described Hillary's transition team as "a total Podesta-fest." Less than inspiring. Transition teams may not set high level policy, but they make recommendations for every political appointment across the government, which has a huge effect on the actual governing.
posted by zennie at 3:33 PM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
This very much. And my spouse (who worked the 90s Clinton campaign and has kept up with the names) described Hillary's transition team as "a total Podesta-fest." Less than inspiring. Transition teams may not set high level policy, but they make recommendations for every political appointment across the government, which has a huge effect on the actual governing.
posted by zennie at 3:33 PM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
hey guess who was in charge of Obama's transition team
posted by dersins at 3:37 PM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by dersins at 3:37 PM on August 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
Government, by nature, has to plan ahead. The government is already initiating TPP plans at all levels. If the next administration is planning on changing that, it's certainly not coming through right now.
posted by zennie at 3:39 PM on August 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by zennie at 3:39 PM on August 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
hey guess who was in charge of Obama's transition team
Does it rhyme with Dom Esamuel?
posted by drezdn at 3:58 PM on August 17, 2016
Does it rhyme with Dom Esamuel?
posted by drezdn at 3:58 PM on August 17, 2016
I'm sorry for being such a completist...
This is something that never needs to be apologized for.
posted by um at 4:12 PM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
This is something that never needs to be apologized for.
posted by um at 4:12 PM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
Does it rhyme with Dom Esamuel?
Nope, rhymes with siesta.
Under the Clinton rules of media, if she does exactly the same thing as someone else, she is uniquely dishonest.
posted by JackFlash at 5:55 PM on August 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
Nope, rhymes with siesta.
Under the Clinton rules of media, if she does exactly the same thing as someone else, she is uniquely dishonest.
posted by JackFlash at 5:55 PM on August 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
90% of the left critiques of Clinton were also directed at Obama. You'd just have to have been following Democracy Now since 2008 to know that. He's got once in a political generation charisma, but he always disappointed the left with his policies.
But Obama isn't running for office. And "obama quoque" is as bad an argument as tu quoque.
posted by dis_integration at 6:03 PM on August 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
But Obama isn't running for office. And "obama quoque" is as bad an argument as tu quoque.
posted by dis_integration at 6:03 PM on August 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
hey guess who was in charge of Obama's transition team
Obama is a centrist, and his economic policies, while great for the overall economy, have not done much to grow the middle class. Don't get me wrong, saving major manufacturers, propping up the financial sector before it toppled completely and stopping free-fall unemployment numbers has saved a lot of middle-class families... but there are a lot more feeling squeezed, and a more still who are no longer middle-class.
This is why Bernie was able to make a fight out of the primaries - a "Third Term" is not going to get things done for the vast majority of Americans. Clinton has been talking the talk, and that got a lot of Bernie-backers onboard, but this is an indication the walk may not be walked.
That said, a Trump presidency would be Biff Tannen's world in an ideal outcome, the world of the Handmaid's Tale with Pence in charge a more likely outcome.
I just wish Clinton would stop shooting herself in the foot. Any other year, against any other opponent, she'd be toast. The email thing alone should have sunk her and would have sunk her going up against, say, McCain or Romney.
She's been given a gift. A cheeto-colored gaswagon gift. Please don't mess it up. Get the liberal base to the polls, and have them drag along anyone who'll listen. The centrists are already there with her.
This is a battle that will be decided by turnout. The GOP have already stacked that against us.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:29 PM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
Obama is a centrist, and his economic policies, while great for the overall economy, have not done much to grow the middle class. Don't get me wrong, saving major manufacturers, propping up the financial sector before it toppled completely and stopping free-fall unemployment numbers has saved a lot of middle-class families... but there are a lot more feeling squeezed, and a more still who are no longer middle-class.
This is why Bernie was able to make a fight out of the primaries - a "Third Term" is not going to get things done for the vast majority of Americans. Clinton has been talking the talk, and that got a lot of Bernie-backers onboard, but this is an indication the walk may not be walked.
That said, a Trump presidency would be Biff Tannen's world in an ideal outcome, the world of the Handmaid's Tale with Pence in charge a more likely outcome.
I just wish Clinton would stop shooting herself in the foot. Any other year, against any other opponent, she'd be toast. The email thing alone should have sunk her and would have sunk her going up against, say, McCain or Romney.
She's been given a gift. A cheeto-colored gaswagon gift. Please don't mess it up. Get the liberal base to the polls, and have them drag along anyone who'll listen. The centrists are already there with her.
This is a battle that will be decided by turnout. The GOP have already stacked that against us.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:29 PM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
Sorry, but anybody who makes the decision to refrain from voting based on who is running the transition team is a fucking baby.
posted by dersins at 7:02 PM on August 17, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by dersins at 7:02 PM on August 17, 2016 [11 favorites]
And, more specifically, a fucking baby who was looking for a reason to make that decision.
posted by dersins at 8:21 PM on August 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by dersins at 8:21 PM on August 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
You don't have to not vote for Hillary to oppose her and criticize her at every turn. In fact, once she gets into office, the different oppositions will only have begun.
posted by Apocryphon at 9:19 PM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Apocryphon at 9:19 PM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
In fact, once she gets into office
posted by Apocryphon at 11:19 PM on August 17
Whoa, whoa. Can we please not do the complacency thing? This is a strange election. Let's not count our chickens before they've hatched.
(Merely a polite suggestion. No malice intended.)
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 9:34 PM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Apocryphon at 11:19 PM on August 17
Whoa, whoa. Can we please not do the complacency thing? This is a strange election. Let's not count our chickens before they've hatched.
(Merely a polite suggestion. No malice intended.)
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 9:34 PM on August 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
Sure, I get it. And I guess my message to the Bernie or Busters, the Jill Stein admirers, etc., is that you can have your cake and eat it too. You can vote for Hillary, and continue to rage against her actions. In fact, you probably should vote for her, otherwise you won't be able to critique her anymore. You'd have to critique Trump instead, which is just easy. So vote for Hillary, so you can hate on who she appoints here, and what choices she makes there, and so forth. Voting for the lesser evil can be done with enthusiasm and panache. Hatevote, don't hate voting.
posted by Apocryphon at 9:41 PM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Apocryphon at 9:41 PM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Whoa, whoa. Can we please not do the complacency thing?
Can we please not have the complacency talk again? No one is getting complacent. There is a big difference between being certain that you're going to win and being certain that the other guy will lose.
We've had this conversation several times in each thread. Even the folks who are 100% certain that Hillary will win in November still have the pedal to the metal to make sure Clinton's coat-tails stretch as far down the ballot as possible.
posted by VTX at 6:00 AM on August 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Can we please not have the complacency talk again? No one is getting complacent. There is a big difference between being certain that you're going to win and being certain that the other guy will lose.
We've had this conversation several times in each thread. Even the folks who are 100% certain that Hillary will win in November still have the pedal to the metal to make sure Clinton's coat-tails stretch as far down the ballot as possible.
posted by VTX at 6:00 AM on August 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
There is a big difference between being certain that you're going to win and being certain that the other guy will lose.
you're going to have to explain this one to me. i thought it was a two horse race.
posted by andrewcooke at 7:13 AM on August 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
you're going to have to explain this one to me. i thought it was a two horse race.
posted by andrewcooke at 7:13 AM on August 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
The first is an acknowledgement that, if everyone keeps their head on straight and brings their A-game, there is no way their opponent can beat them. The second is betting that the opponent is so inept that your side doesn't need to try very hard because the other guys are going to hand it to you.
Or the first is knowing you're going to win because you're the better rider on a faster horse, the second is thinking the other horse is going to break it's leg halfway through the race and it's idiot rider is going to euthanize the horse.
And even then, as I said, there is a ton of incentive to run up the score because in this horse race, the rewards are proportional to the margin of victory.
posted by VTX at 7:23 AM on August 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Or the first is knowing you're going to win because you're the better rider on a faster horse, the second is thinking the other horse is going to break it's leg halfway through the race and it's idiot rider is going to euthanize the horse.
And even then, as I said, there is a ton of incentive to run up the score because in this horse race, the rewards are proportional to the margin of victory.
posted by VTX at 7:23 AM on August 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
you're going to have to explain this one to me. i thought it was a two horse race.
There are horses, there are asses and then there are horses' asses.
posted by y2karl at 9:01 AM on August 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
There are horses, there are asses and then there are horses' asses.
posted by y2karl at 9:01 AM on August 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Is there a new thread I missed or are people just tired of this shit and waiting for the debates?
posted by skewed at 10:11 AM on August 19, 2016
posted by skewed at 10:11 AM on August 19, 2016
Is there a new thread I missed or are people just tired of this shit and waiting for the debates?
I'm really feeling for you here. I took 3 days off and felt overwhelmed by the comment volume on the new thread, and you - you have 1466 comments to look forward to.
No, wait, 1468 already.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:52 AM on August 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm really feeling for you here. I took 3 days off and felt overwhelmed by the comment volume on the new thread, and you - you have 1466 comments to look forward to.
No, wait, 1468 already.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:52 AM on August 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Some folks are still catching up on the previous thread and feel the same about your comment (and now mine) adding to the comment count on this thread.
And yet we can't stop.... :)
posted by VTX at 11:42 AM on August 19, 2016
And yet we can't stop.... :)
posted by VTX at 11:42 AM on August 19, 2016
wow, thanks for the heads up. I was surprised that more people weren't talking about the shake-up in the campaign. Thank goodness there is fresh commentary on the Breitbart/Manafort battle for Trump's brain.
posted by skewed at 12:56 PM on August 19, 2016
posted by skewed at 12:56 PM on August 19, 2016
On the dogwhistle matter - it was an implied Godwin, and you know it. "Trump's supporters are Nazis so Trump is literally Hitler! Amirite?" That's the dogwhistle.
I liked the pun, but disliked the deep well of ancient, poisonous allegory that it lazily fan-covered. Trump attracts fascists, but if 37% to 46% of the American electorate is actually fascist, then the USA is already as far gone as Germany was when Hitler became Chancellor in 1933 (he got 43.91%, against a fractured opposition, versus 33% in the previous election).
posted by Autumn Leaf at 5:46 PM on August 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
I liked the pun, but disliked the deep well of ancient, poisonous allegory that it lazily fan-covered. Trump attracts fascists, but if 37% to 46% of the American electorate is actually fascist, then the USA is already as far gone as Germany was when Hitler became Chancellor in 1933 (he got 43.91%, against a fractured opposition, versus 33% in the previous election).
posted by Autumn Leaf at 5:46 PM on August 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
I guess what I don't understand is where you're seeing a dogwhistle. A dogwhistle implies that there is some reference being made that most of the audience will not get but that a select in-group does. That is not the case here - everyone understands that the reich reference is to Hitler/fascism. You may not agree that things have gotten that bad, but that doesn't make the reich reference a dogwhistle, since its meaning is clear.
posted by peacheater at 5:51 PM on August 20, 2016
posted by peacheater at 5:51 PM on August 20, 2016
You may not agree that things have gotten that bad, but that doesn't make the reich reference a dogwhistle, since its meaning is clear.
Actually I decided the real issue was that the whole US election thing was dragging me down and souring my mood. I decided to step away from the topic for the day and I feel much better for doing so. There's a lotta more pleasant threads on Mefi right now.
Sorry for inflicting my sour mood on y'all. My bad.
posted by Autumn Leaf at 6:19 AM on August 21, 2016
Actually I decided the real issue was that the whole US election thing was dragging me down and souring my mood. I decided to step away from the topic for the day and I feel much better for doing so. There's a lotta more pleasant threads on Mefi right now.
Sorry for inflicting my sour mood on y'all. My bad.
posted by Autumn Leaf at 6:19 AM on August 21, 2016
You may not agree that things have gotten that bad, but that doesn't make the reich reference a dogwhistle, since its meaning is clear.
Is this something where I would need to own a dog to understand or just be one ?
posted by y2karl at 7:41 AM on August 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Is this something where I would need to own a dog to understand or just be one ?
posted by y2karl at 7:41 AM on August 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
All right! Made it to the end. Checks next thread: 2220 comments..... For those yet reading - I am with you! Onward!
Previews : Don't longboat this thread you fools! (Adds to longboat - bean plates posting or catching up)
posted by zenon at 8:50 AM on August 21, 2016
Previews : Don't longboat this thread you fools! (Adds to longboat - bean plates posting or catching up)
posted by zenon at 8:50 AM on August 21, 2016
> Minutes later, Khalid was talking on the phone with his family when he stepped outside to get the mail. Majors was waiting for him, police say. The 61-year-old opened fire, fatally wounding the 37-year-old Khalid, according to police.
Hate Crime in Tulsa: Khalid Jabara's Family Speaks Out After His Murder by Racist White Neighbor
Father of Muslim Women Murdered in Chapel Hill to Jabara Family: "I Know How You Feel"
posted by homunculus at 2:39 PM on August 23, 2016
Hate Crime in Tulsa: Khalid Jabara's Family Speaks Out After His Murder by Racist White Neighbor
Father of Muslim Women Murdered in Chapel Hill to Jabara Family: "I Know How You Feel"
posted by homunculus at 2:39 PM on August 23, 2016
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
sorry, my metaphor got away from me.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:13 PM on August 12, 2016 [34 favorites]