Peace and Quiet and Open Air / Wait for Us / Somewhere
August 22, 2016 6:00 AM   Subscribe

76 trombones days to go in the 2016 U.S. Presidential election and the candidates have a lot on their minds: Clinton makes a $95 million ad buy; Trump and his band of Steves yearn for calmer days when they'll be able to discuss Morning Joe gossip in peace, as Minion "9/11" Rudy spreads Clinton conspiracy theories; Egg McMuffin continues to do his thing.
posted by sallybrown (3307 comments total) 92 users marked this as a favorite
 
Neurotic and not very bright? Look in the mirror. https://t.co/FPaqGW9JWv

— Joe Scarborough (@JoeNBC) August 22, 2016

Trump Gets Personal In Gloves-Off Attack On 'Morning Joe' Co-Hosts
posted by waitingtoderail at 6:08 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Now that the Olympics are over, how long until we get another Trump Tantrum?
posted by Tevin at 6:09 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]




Keep in mind this is the same Morning Joe that had Jason Chaffetz on this morning and let him smear around his BS about the Clinton email issue without interruption. If Donald was smarter...well, he isn't.
posted by sallybrown at 6:11 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Trump Gets Personal In Gloves-Off Attack On 'Morning Joe' Co-Hosts

But... but... The pivot!

I guess any real pivot away from being a tantrum throwing mess is going to involve the Breitbart guy physically taking his phone and throwing it into the ocean.
posted by Artw at 6:14 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


NPR: Research Challenges Assumptions On Why Voters Support Trump

In which Tamara Keith interviews Trump supporters and tries really hard not to point out that their racist opinions are racist.
posted by Gelatin at 6:17 AM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


This morning I'm finding it so interesting that Trump insists on doing such a significant amount of tweeting. We joke about taking the phone away, but obviously he sees it as an advantage.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 6:23 AM on August 22, 2016


WSJ: Business Economists Say Hillary Clinton Is Best for the Economy
"In a NABE survey, 55% say Hillary Clinton would do the best job, while Donald Trump comes in third"

Johnson beats him 15-14.
posted by chris24 at 6:24 AM on August 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


76 days to go and I'm still waiting for my Hillary merch :/
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:26 AM on August 22, 2016 [22 favorites]


Me too! I never even got my Woman Card.
posted by sallybrown at 6:27 AM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Did you get a woman card?
posted by thelonius at 6:27 AM on August 22, 2016


76 days to go and I'm still waiting for my Hillary merch :/

it works on both metaphorical and literal levels
posted by entropicamericana at 6:28 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Keep in mind this is the same Morning Joe that had Jason Chaffetz on this morning and let him smear around his BS about the Clinton email issue without interruption. If Donald was smarter...well, he isn't.

As we've established, peddling racism, lies or worse is A-OK with most of the media as long as you don't personally offend them. We should be thankful that Trump is this stupid.
posted by indubitable at 6:29 AM on August 22, 2016 [23 favorites]


Me too! I never even got my Woman Card.

I got mine! Also a sticker.
posted by peacheater at 6:32 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Those of you who have done volunteering, is it okay to just do a couple hours of an all-day event? Because I have entire days to spend on any one thing precisely never but I do have a couple hours here and there. There's voter reg for students moving in to the university I work at this Thursday and I just happen to have time after work (which I normally don't, but circumstances are aligning this week) but the thing goes from like 10 AM until 7 PM.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:34 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


This isn't about trombones. It's more vocal...

Donald Trump is the political equivalent of Florence Foster Jenkins: Able to buy himself onto the great stage, and so tone-deaf that everybody comes to watch in horror.
posted by Namlit at 6:34 AM on August 22, 2016 [25 favorites]


76 days to go and I'm still waiting for my Hillary merch :/

I want to thank everyone giving heads-up about the delivery times for the merch. I've decided to order a hoodie instead of a tee.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:41 AM on August 22, 2016 [19 favorites]




There's voter reg for students moving in to the university I work at this Thursday and I just happen to have time after work (which I normally don't, but circumstances are aligning this week) but the thing goes from like 10 AM until 7 PM.
I'm sure it would be fine! I would be very surprised if anyone stayed that entire time apart from the main organizers. The only thing I would think about is if they are likely to get a lot of volunteers just when everyone gets out of work - but then there are also likely to be more people to register at that time, so it would probably work out fine. Also you are on a college campus so things are likely to be different anyway. The phone banking runs from 10 am to 9 pm at the Boston location, but people only come for a couple hours at a time. You might want to send a note to the organizer to double check.
posted by peacheater at 6:42 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


76 days to go and I'm still waiting for my Hillary merch :/

I just emailed the shop about this, because I'm changing my address of September 1st! I ordered mine on July 30th - a girls just want to have fun-damental rights tote, a woman card, and two packs of the playing cards.
posted by dinty_moore at 6:42 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yes, Soren, I'm sure the organizer would be happy to have whatever help they can get. If you can get in touch with them before hand to see if there's a specific role you can fill for that specific time, I think it would be even better. But yeah, you're a volunteer, offering your labor for free. They will be grateful no matter how much time you can give.
posted by Tevin at 6:43 AM on August 22, 2016


I'm finding it so interesting that Trump insists on doing such a significant amount of tweeting. We joke about taking the phone away, but obviously he sees it as an advantage.

I think it's more that the restricted Twitter format works with his famously short attention span.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:45 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


I thought about posting this to green but maybe it's worth a shot here - are there any sites that centralize all rebuttals to anti-Clinton talking points? Just like a one-stop shop for this sort of thing so I don't have to google and wade through a bunch of garbage? A resource like that would be tremendous. There is this, but it's about year old.
posted by windbox at 6:45 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Trumpism may be here to stay

Well duh, though I call it by its other name, "the bulk of the Republican Party prior to Trunps presidential bid". Doesn't roll off the tongue in the same way though.
posted by Artw at 6:46 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


are there any sites that centralize all rebuttals to anti-Clinton talking points?

Snopes has been working pretty well for me.
posted by Etrigan at 6:47 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


I've been thinking about that too. I wonder if we can compile one ourselves. There are no people I trust more to cut through all the BS (and still be fair) than Metafilter people.
posted by peacheater at 6:47 AM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Well duh, though I call it by its other name, "the bulk of the Republican Party prior to Trunps presidential bid". Doesn't roll off the tongue in the same way though.

Breaking news! Tribalism, racism, xenophobia and nationalism are here to stay! (And in fact have been here all along.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:47 AM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


I thought about posting this to green but maybe it's worth a shot here - are there any sites that centralize all rebuttals to anti-Clinton talking points? Just like a one-stop shop for this sort of thing so I don't have to google and wade through a bunch of garbage? A resource like that would be tremendous. There is this, but it's about year old.

Correct the Record. It's a little slow and not often wonkish enough for me but a good start.
posted by Francis at 6:48 AM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Oh thank god and sallybrown, a new thread!

I do like that Donald Trump gives the assholes who run Twitter something else to feel bad about
posted by schadenfrau at 6:49 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Snopes has been working pretty well for me.

I don't think I can count anymore the number of right-leaning family members and acquaintances who have decided based on how often Trump says something that Snopes can demonstrably prove is false...that Snopes must be untrustworthy and biased.
posted by thegears at 6:49 AM on August 22, 2016 [66 favorites]


There are some people (a disturbing number of people) for whom any source that attempts to fact check and debunk falsehoods will automatically get labeled biased. That's the "bringing facts to a feelings fight" problem.

The people open to fact-checking are going to be D-leaning undecideds who "just don't like Hillary" or feel that she's "just not trustworthy." Don't waste your time with hard core Trumpists. He makes them feel powerful and safe in the arms of a strongman autocrat, you can't fight that with facts.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:54 AM on August 22, 2016 [50 favorites]


Correct the Record. It's a little slow and not often wonkish enough for me but a good start.

CTR is a good resource if you want to get some talking points, but it's important to note that it's an official arm of the Clinton campaign which makes it essentially a propaganda vehicle (i use that word carefully) and, in the eyes of the people you'd be trying to correct, a bunch of lies that can't be trusted. Snopes is a great source but as thegears noted, once Snopes challenges something they've heard elsewhere touted as fact, a moment of cognitive dissonance occurs. They can decide that the sources they've relied on are lie-peddling con-artists, or they can decide that Snopes is itself a biased propaganda arm of the liberal establishment and can't be trusted.
posted by dis_integration at 7:00 AM on August 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


You can't reason somebody out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
posted by signal at 7:05 AM on August 22, 2016 [69 favorites]


...Snopes must be untrustworthy and biased...

Yeah, a relative of mine posted on facebook the new Hillary Clinton Murdered a Guy thing. Not Vince Foster. She murdered a new guy. Anyhoo, the post had zero citations or links to sources or anything, and was written by a person calling themselves "Tyler Durden" [not fake! I mean obviously that name is fake, but they actually use that pseudonymn.] So I posted a Snopes article debunking it. So the relative said "Right. I should trust Snopes?" And I said "Well, the author uses their real name and they have links to the articles that they refer to. So you can at least know who it is that you're trusting or not trusting based on whether you think their sources are good."

And he said "You're right! Thank you for encouraging me to use critical thinking skills." [fake.]

Actually, he said "Tyler Durden is using a fake name because Hillary has people killed. All those links in Snopes go to Mainstream Media. Can't trust them."

[real. sigh.]
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:06 AM on August 22, 2016 [85 favorites]


Skorgu had a great answer in the last thread, about conversations with people who fight facts. "Just remember the magic words: "What would convince you of X?"
"It's respectful and polite, it's easy to remember, it puts the focus on the person you're talking to instead of the side they're supporting, and best of all it only has three possible outcomes:

1. An actual answer. This never happens but if it somehow does it means you're talking about something concrete that the other person came up with. Either it's something reasonable that you can demonstrate (and enjoy the acrobatics as they're now arguing with themselves) or something that can't be demonstrated (in which case you can talk about why their burden of proof is so high).

2. "Nothing will convince me." Well, ok. Why are we talking about this then? If you've already made up your mind let's not waste everyone's time.

3. Literally Any Other Response. Resist the urge to gloat because your opponent has given you a big stick with which to beat them. Either they give something like an answer in which case GOTO 10, they demonstrate that they're not arguing in good faith by refusing to meet your extremely reasonable request in which case you have a polite way out of the conversation or they just ghost on you in which case you got the last word.

As an aside, it's instructive to turn this on your own beliefs."
posted by cashman at 7:07 AM on August 22, 2016 [133 favorites]


I mentioned this in the last thread but don't bring facts to a feelings fight. Basically nobody is carefully weighing pros and cons to form an opinion. Politics is tribal and emotional, even more so in this post-factual era.

Try some conversational judo: ask what would convince them to change their minds. If there's nothing, don't waste everyone's time. If they have something, no matter how unreasonabl, now you're on a solid factual basis that they explicitly endorsed. If they refuse to answer they've proven bad faith to whatever audience and you can walk away head held high.

Edit: That'll teach me not to preview.
posted by Skorgu at 7:08 AM on August 22, 2016 [75 favorites]


Just edit your post to say "I'm Skorgu, and I approve this message". [don't do that]
posted by cashman at 7:09 AM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Today's electoral forecast by Sam Wang:
  • Clinton 347, Trump 191 EV Meta-margin: Clinton +5.7%
  • Clinton Nov. win probability: random drift 92%, Bayesian 95%
  • Senate snapshot (49 polls): Dem+Ind: 51, GOP: 49, Meta-margin: D +2.7%
posted by Gelatin at 7:10 AM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


This might have already been mentioned in the previous thread, but Sam Wang of PEC appears to have tweaked his model. It now puts Clinton at 95%.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 7:11 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


jinx
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 7:11 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I do think the psychology behind this, while also being infuriating, is really interesting.

Is there any evidence that younger people are getting any better at using critical thinking vis-a-vis shit they read on the internet than the Olds? The transition from "media controlled by gatekeepers at least nominally" to "literally anyone can put anything directly in front of your eyeballs with no middle man" happened really fast and is a complete 180 from the way a lot of people were trained to read texts.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:14 AM on August 22, 2016 [35 favorites]


You can't reason somebody out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

I don't really give a shit if they can't be reasoned out, I just want to make them look like an idiot, publicly, so that undecideds can witness it and come closer to wanting to be on the right side of history. Nothing good comes from letting conspiracy theorists and "smart" Gary Johnson supporters have the last word and run roughshod posting garbage memes on social media completely unchallenged.
posted by windbox at 7:14 AM on August 22, 2016 [43 favorites]


SKORGU 2020
posted by benzenedream at 7:16 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


a mirror and an encyclopedia: "This might have already been mentioned in the previous thread, but Sam Wang of PEC appears to have tweaked his model. It now puts Clinton at 95%."

And yet we've got another 77 days of horse-race reporting to get through. And every time there's an outlier poll showing Trump gaining on Clinton, there's going to be a raft of hand-wringing articles about how she's blowing a sure thing.
posted by octothorpe at 7:18 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I can see some benefit to rhetorically tricking people into admitting their affinity for white nationalism.

But then I think about how truly terrifying it will be if all those Trump supporters and sympathizers actually did come out and say "yup, I'm a racialist, that's how I identify now," and I want to back away very, very slowly.

Has anyone seen anything -- essays, blogposts, whatever -- about how we're supposed to deal with this after the election? How do you curb the rise of racial or ethnic nationalism?
posted by schadenfrau at 7:20 AM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


Yeah, being polite when people say racist things and/or not wasting time confronting people who don't want to live in a fact-based reality is one of the reasons Trump has been so successful.
posted by VTX at 7:22 AM on August 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


As we've established, peddling racism, lies or worse is A-OK with most of the media as long as you don't personally offend them. We should be thankful that Trump is this stupid.

See the Ezra Klein article that boiled this down to 'journalists are clapping back at Trump because they're scared about what would happen to them if he got elected.'
posted by winna at 7:24 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'm going to have to get an extra supply of Ativan to make it through the next 76 days. Of course, I have only myself to blame for the anxiety. No one is actually forcing me to obsessively read this thread or research the alt-right or refresh 538 every hour.

Last night I was convinced for about half-an-hour that Holocaust denial was becoming mainstream. Someone get me an Ativan.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:24 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car
posted by Postroad at 7:26 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


soren_lorensen: Is there any evidence that younger people are getting any better at using critical thinking vis-a-vis shit they read on the internet than the Olds?

If Tumblr is anything to go by, fuck no.

Note: I'm 47 and a hard-core Tumblr user/lover, so I am not dissing the platform or the many ways it has been useful at spreading real news/explanations, but the young folks on my blogroll there will believe absolutely anything they see, especially if it comes with no sources whatsoever.
posted by tzikeh at 7:26 AM on August 22, 2016 [36 favorites]


Has anyone seen anything -- essays, blogposts, whatever -- about how we're supposed to deal with this after the election? How do you curb the rise of racial or ethnic nationalism?

Improve economic conditions for working people so that they don't descend into hatred and fear? This tribalism is partly a symptom of an economy that's leaving folks behind. Fix the economic insecurity and folks have bit more room in their hearts for acceptance.

Point out repeatedly that it's Un-American, and contrary to our most deeply held beliefs as a country? It's not like we haven't had to deal with it before. We beat George Wallace and Bull Connor and his ilk before, and back then they controlled a quarter of the country.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:27 AM on August 22, 2016 [19 favorites]


Postroad I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car

Wow, that's an incredibly shitty thing to do.
posted by tzikeh at 7:30 AM on August 22, 2016 [66 favorites]


It's dumb, too. I strongly deprecate people doing things to cars because of stickers but it's not like it doesn't happen. Coming out to your car with all four tires flat seems like a counter-productive trolling effort.
posted by winna at 7:31 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Me too! I never even got my Woman Card.

I think there was some mix-up, because I got a Woman Card that was clearly intended for someone else. I've tried emailing customer support about this and I hope they get back to me before I run out of vacation time ("a family emergency") or have to go bra shopping in some sort of 80s Freaky Friday montage.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:33 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


While driving through very rural west-central Ohio this weekend I saw a sign that read "I stand with Turnips" done up in the signature Trump font and formatting.

That seems to me like a far better troll.
posted by Tevin at 7:34 AM on August 22, 2016 [83 favorites]


Data point: I'm a lefty by any measure, and when I see a Trump sticker I don't get angry. I just think "what a dumbfuck."
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:34 AM on August 22, 2016 [125 favorites]


Well duh, though I call it by its other name, "the bulk of the Republican Party prior to Trunps presidential bid". Doesn't roll off the tongue in the same way though.

Yeah, it feels like people are thinking that Trump is a Republican with clown makeup on, when really... he is a Republican who has taken his clown makeup off.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 7:35 AM on August 22, 2016 [55 favorites]


I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car

So, racist cosplay then?
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:35 AM on August 22, 2016 [108 favorites]


Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I can't actually think of one single left-leaning person I know who would attack a person's car because of the stickers on it. I know I wouldn't, because destroying someone else's property because they have views I don't like? That's such a complete dick move, and only something an absolute drooling moron would do.

And that's why I don't put political stickers on my car. Because I fully expect Trump supporters to commit a crime against me for exercising my first amendment rights.
posted by palomar at 7:36 AM on August 22, 2016 [38 favorites]


Data point: I'm a lefty by any measure, and when I see a Trump sticker I don't get angry. I just think "what a dumbfuck."

I stay about half again as far away from them as I do other cars.
posted by Etrigan at 7:37 AM on August 22, 2016 [21 favorites]


Somebody ought to troll Trump into filming an unexpurgated day in the life -- "Hillary's sleeping, I'm at work!" -- so we can see him tapping away angry tweets at 4:29am en route to his 757.
posted by holgate at 7:38 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I dunno, palomar. I could see some kid doing it. It's not like dumb poor-impulse-control people are exclusively right-wing, more's the pity.
posted by winna at 7:38 AM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


I just finally watched that nytimes compilation video of Trump supporters shouting terrible things. I've read about all of those incidents, but it's so different actually seeing it on video. It brought me to tears.
posted by gerstle at 7:39 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Improve economic conditions for working people so that they don't descend into hatred and fear? This tribalism is partly a symptom of an economy that's leaving folks behind. Fix the economic insecurity and folks have bit more room in their hearts for acceptance.

Except it's not the people under economic distress who are Trumpists. Those aren't the people who train to attack the World Trade Center. (All of this paraphrases a JMM post I'll link below.) it's the people just close enough to the people who are suffering, but who still have quite a lot of privilege left to lose, who are angriest.

Here's the JMM TPM post.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:41 AM on August 22, 2016 [20 favorites]


I know it's become a campaign slogan, but Hope always Trumps Fear in our country. We're a nation of forward-looking optimists. Even in our darkest times, we know that things will get better. That we will overcome. Regardless of party, if you don't have a positive vision of the future that you can describe and argue for, you are not going to win. Reagan had Morning in America. Bush had a Thousand Points of Light. Clinton had a place called Hope. W had Compassionate Conservatism. Hillary has Stronger Together.

But Trump? Make America Great Again? It's implicit in that slogan that America isn't great now. Now a more talented politician could put a positive optimistic spin on that (c.f. Reagan), but Trump ain't that guy. A fear-based campaign has not, and will never work for the Presidency of "The Greatest Country On Earth."
posted by leotrotsky at 7:42 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


So, racist cosplay then?
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:35 AM on August 22 [9 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]


I think since any of the POC or women who see it wont know the difference and are thus just as scared when they see it, we can cross out the cosplay part
posted by schadenfrau at 7:43 AM on August 22, 2016 [50 favorites]


I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car
Thanks for making this country feel less safe for me and other non-white people.
posted by peacheater at 7:43 AM on August 22, 2016 [98 favorites]


schadenfrau: thanks for the link to that JMM article.

"But at its heart, simply as a matter of definitional clarity, that's what Trumpism is: the politics of white nationalism."
posted by sutt at 7:44 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I've found the 'what would change your mind?' tactic very useful in triaging creationists, although the toxic fallout of Dover seems to have kept them behind the castle walls of late. And run it on yourself; I know I'm a born liberal, and some of that is pure belief, and I know that in discussing or defending those bits I can do a better job by acknowledging that. It's not a crime to believe in a better world.

In all these things, it's not so much trying to directly convert people with fixed views - which does happen, but usually over long periods where unease leads to reflection and reassessment on their own terms and in their own time - but in maintaining a public discourse that demonstrates other modes of thought are possible and disagreement in good faith is not a personal attack.

There's a different dynamic during elections and the like, where ya gotta concentrate on doing what needs to be done to prevent disaster and foment success. Life during wartime.
posted by Devonian at 7:44 AM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


I don't put political stickers on my car because coworkers and random strangers treat you differently when you do. I'm happy with my presentational status quo.
posted by ardgedee at 7:45 AM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Right, like I said, I don't personally know anyone (not even kids, gasp!) that is stupid enough to commit a crime because they see a sticker they don't like. That's why I was careful to say that I can't speak for anyone else, because I guess other people know a bunch of left-leaning idiots who would do something like this.

If nothing else, this election cycle is making me grateful for the company I keep. I'm glad that I don't personally know anyone that fucking stupid.
posted by palomar at 7:46 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Is there any evidence that younger people are getting any better at using critical thinking vis-a-vis shit they read on the internet than the Olds? The transition from "media controlled by gatekeepers at least nominally" to "literally anyone can put anything directly in front of your eyeballs with no middle man" happened really fast and is a complete 180 from the way a lot of people were trained to read texts.

I think both younger people and older people rely on their friends and social networks to curate their news sources. The sources your friends share are the sources you trust.

But most people's social networks are not so insular that they never interact with someone outside their bubble. The biggest Breitbart fans will have noticed that their left-leaning friends do not take seriously their citations from Breitbart, and will often (in my experience) make an effort to find an NY Times story or something to support their claims about the Clinton foundation (or whatever) when arguing with people from outside their bubble.

I think this is kind of how things were in the early days of newspapers too; low barrier to entry. Rumors and gossip and opinion and urban legends. I think over time some sources develop a reputation for credibility when the issues they talk about actually do turn out to be issues, while the ones which warn that Obama is trying to take over Texas via Jade Helm or whatever take a hit.

I think that will continue to be true, and that the NY Times and Washington Post and etc. have a bit of an advantage in that they bring legacy credibility with them. That's why they can get away with putting up pay walls, but local newspaper can't. I actually think pay walls are starting to become a sign of credibility, and that this may be how the "how do we pay for journalism" problem shakes out. You pay not for the news, but for the credibility of the source you're getting it from. Of course that has the issue that it's hard to cite paywalled sources, but the very reason you'd want to pay for these is because you can cite them as sources... The 10 items a month thing is a pretty good solution to that.

tl;dr: People living in social "bubbles" are the reason BS "news" sources can survive, but as long as our bubbles aren't totally sealed, we'll probably be okay.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:46 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


"I don't put political stickers on my car because coworkers and random strangers treat you differently when you do."

That same logic applies to why I have no tattoos.
posted by sutt at 7:46 AM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


Except it's not the people under economic distress who are Trumpists. Those aren't the people who train to attack the World Trade Center. (All of this paraphrases a JMM post I'll link below.) it's the people just close enough to the people who are suffering, but who still have quite a lot of privilege left to lose, who are angriest.

Yeah, and it's not the proletariat that lead the revolution, it's the petite bourgeoisie. Robespierre was a lawyer.

Doesn't Matter. That misses the point.

It's not a coincidence that Father Coughlin and Huey Long were big in the 1930s and not the 1990s. When the economy is lifting all ships you don't see the rise of populist ethnic nationalism. Nobody wants to string up the immigrants when they've got a bright future and a full belly.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:50 AM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


I don't do political stickers either. If I learned nothing else from William S. Burroughs, it's that it can be very powerful to be unique, but look boring. Invisible gets a lot of leeway.
posted by blnkfrnk at 7:50 AM on August 22, 2016 [33 favorites]


I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car

I'd find that to be shitty immature behavior coming from a middle schooler, much less an ostensible adult.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 7:50 AM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car

If you're trollin, you should at least put an Obama '08 and Obama '12 sticker on the same car.
posted by 23skidoo at 7:54 AM on August 22, 2016 [85 favorites]


I think this is kind of how things were in the early days of newspapers too; low barrier to entry. Rumors and gossip and opinion and urban legends. I think over time some sources develop a reputation for credibility when the issues they talk about actually do turn out to be issues, while the ones which warn that Obama is trying to take over Texas via Jade Helm or whatever take a hit.

Maybe, but until then the yellow web is going to cause a lot of damage and confusion.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:55 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


And people say Trump has no ground game.

[real] 12-year-old running Trump campaign office in Colorado
posted by Spathe Cadet at 7:56 AM on August 22, 2016 [21 favorites]


In one of the most important counties in swing state Colorado, Donald Trump is relying on 12-year-old Weston Imer, who runs the Jefferson County operation for the Trump campaign.

"I just wish he'd tone down the name-calling and the insults. It's so immature."
posted by leotrotsky at 7:58 AM on August 22, 2016 [23 favorites]


[real] 12-year-old running Trump campaign office in Colorado

I actually held my breath when I clicked that, I was so afraid it was my county. (It's not.)
posted by mochapickle at 7:59 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car

Congrats, you've successfully angered a bunch of lefties just by mentioning it.
posted by dis_integration at 8:00 AM on August 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


I'd find that to be shitty immature behavior coming from a middle schooler, much less an ostensible adult.

All u troll feeders, puh-leeze: consider the source, a part of geological history here as in irl, school up, lighten up.
See also: uncle, basement.
posted by y2karl at 8:00 AM on August 22, 2016 [20 favorites]


My sister (who is comfortably well-off by the way, thanks to her husband working for Halliburton, so is not motivated by the economy) texted me anti-Hilary screeds late night this weekend and I have decided to assume she was drunk-texting and act like I didn't get them. She has always been a racist who lives out in the boonies because she only wants to see white people, so it's not like I was surprised. My big hope is that her usual political disconnection will mean she just doesn't bother to vote.
posted by emjaybee at 8:00 AM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


Normally I don't do bumper stickers either for the "better to be invisible" reasons mentioned above. But then I saw a Trump/Pence sticker on a shitty old pickup truck in my work parking lot and decided it couldn't stand unchecked (there are thousands of cars in the parking lot at work, very few have political stickers). So I went online and rage-ordered woman cards for my wife, mom, and sister (these went over really well!) and a bumper sticker for my car. It took me a week to work up the nerve to actually put it on my car, but it's on there and so far no vandalism to report.

TL;DR: this year's republican candidate is so odious that a bumper sticker-shunning voter made an exception.
posted by strange chain at 8:05 AM on August 22, 2016 [21 favorites]


Congrats, you've successfully angered a bunch of lefties just by mentioning it.

Dang, son, I don't see anyone being angry. Me, I'm just bemused.
posted by winna at 8:07 AM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


I got my lawn sign on Friday and put it up to rebut the 2 (two!) Trump/Pence homes on my quiet suburban Los Angeles street. So far, no vandalism to report, thankfully.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:08 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


> a bumper sticker-shunning voter made an exception.
Get yer bumper stickers here
posted by farlukar at 8:10 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Congrats, you've successfully angered a bunch of lefties just by mentioning it.

I'm gonna lose the rest of my morning looking for the perfect eyeroll gif.
posted by Etrigan at 8:10 AM on August 22, 2016 [20 favorites]


In my very-red, gun-loving state I would never judge anyone for eschewing stickers. In a small town, especially, it might feel dangerous to do. Or at least lead to hassles.

However, I decided it was worth it to put a Hilary sticker on my car. So far, no vandalism, but I live in a fairly diverse part of town. Mostly I felt the need to be visible and unafraid in order to encourage my fellow Democrats. My route to work specifically goes past the lady in my neighborhood who has a Hilary yard sign, because she encourages me.
posted by emjaybee at 8:10 AM on August 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


There's a car with a Trump Pence for my bunghole bumper sticker on my street (with that unfortunate logo).
posted by peacheater at 8:11 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Hmm... nope, not angry. I'm rolling my eyes and making that jerk-off motion with my hand, which is how I display boredom and mild annoyance, not anger.
posted by palomar at 8:11 AM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


(Etrigan, you want the gif of The Rock rolling his eyes.)
posted by palomar at 8:12 AM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


[real] 12-year-old running Trump campaign office in Colorado

Bless his heart. I would have been delighted to do the same for Clinton at his age, and my brain was equally underbaked, just fed with better ideas and looked after by better parents.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:12 AM on August 22, 2016 [16 favorites]


I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car

I am reminded of the old saying: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."
posted by spitbull at 8:12 AM on August 22, 2016 [24 favorites]


Oh like there's been any doubt for the last decade or so.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 8:14 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


(Etrigan, you want the gif of The Rock rolling his eyes.)

I vote Prince.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:14 AM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Why not both? VOTE THE ROCK GIF/PRINCE GIF 2016
posted by palomar at 8:15 AM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I can't actually think of one single left-leaning person I know who would attack a person's car because of the stickers on it.

To be fair, I did read that a woman drove up on somebody's yard to knock down a Trump sign in the Boston suburbs, but that was newsworthy. That's going to be one unwell woman, and not a representative of a group that openly wants to curtail free speech.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:16 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


The Prince GIF is definitely more of a side eye, but still equally appropriate here.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:17 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]




I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car

Serious contender for most stupid thing I've ever read on Metafilter. I suppose posting that here was part of your fun little hobby though too.
posted by EatTheWeak at 8:21 AM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Right. I don't know her.

(no, for real... what is it about saying "i don't personally have anyone in my social circles who behaves that way" that drives people to dredge up single-serving whackjobs that made the news one time to prove me wrong? because, y'all, the fact that someone like that exists doesn't change what I am saying about my own experiences. i'm not saying those people don't exist, i'm saying i don't know them. they're thin on the ground where i am.)
posted by palomar at 8:21 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


'The Daily Show' finds Donald Trump supporters largely fail "extreme vetting" test

"And make 'em eat some bacon."

Uggghhhhhh god these people.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:23 AM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


OK, someone dropped a turd in the thread, maybe we can move on instead of discussing exactly where it lies on the Bristol stool scale.
posted by arcolz at 8:24 AM on August 22, 2016 [26 favorites]


palomar, that gif does not mean what you think it means.
posted by prefpara at 8:25 AM on August 22, 2016


It was a type 6, for the record.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:25 AM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


I am going to apply for citizenship soon and every time I hear these people who so badly want to vet immigrants I have a mixture of eye-rolling indignation and genuine fear.

(Seriously, if I have to eat bacon, I'm just going to keep on coasting on my green card forever.)
posted by Jeanne at 8:26 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Did Trump catch any of the Olympics? The man is known for his television watching, you'd think he would have caught some of it.
posted by drezdn at 8:26 AM on August 22, 2016


In which Tamara Keith interviews Trump supporters and tries really hard not to point out that their racist opinions are racist.

Thanks for linking that. I heard that this morning, too, and it was dumbfounding. "Trump supporters don't back him for the reason you think!" It's not racism? "People think it's because of economic instability from trade agreements and immigration..." I was pretty sure it was racism. "But his supporters aren't overly affected by trade or immigration." They just think they are because they're racist? "We spoke with some of his supporters... some of who sounded pained that they might come off as racist." Um...
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:27 AM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


There seems to be a disturbing amount of Trump bumper stickers that I see driving around. I live in a suburban area outside a major city in a sure blue state. I want to get a Clinton/Kaine magnet, but then I would get crap from my Trumper co-workers. I also don't want to have my tires slashed.

I'll just get stickers and put them on my non-work laptop.
posted by 81818181818181818181 at 8:28 AM on August 22, 2016


Trump’s real endgame: A white nationalist media empire?
* Vanity Fair media writer Sarah Ellison reports in a radio interview that Trump has had private discussions with his inner circle about “how to monetize” the new audience he’s built up. As Ellison puts it, this potential goal should no longer be seen as “speculation.”
This election continues to make my head hurt.
posted by Talez at 8:28 AM on August 22, 2016 [23 favorites]


palomar, that gif does not mean what you think it means.

Hi. I'm well aware of the meaning of that gif and I was employing it here because it popped into my head and made me laugh my ass off. But thanks! I love being corrected by people who don't get me.
posted by palomar at 8:28 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


soren_lorensen: "Is there any evidence that younger people are getting any better at using critical thinking vis-a-vis shit they read on the internet than the Olds? "

This isn't evidence but just an anecdote: Some of my friends are college profs and teach undergrads. I asked a few of them if the kids are smarter now than we were back in undergrad (circa mid-1990s) because of the internet. The general consensus was "not really" although one of my friends offered an observation. He thought that the internet was making the smarter ones even smarter but the... uh... less smarter ones even less smart. What he was getting at was that for the students who could figure out what things on the internet were reliable and which weren't, the internet was a godsend. But, for the ones who couldn't tell their Wikipedias from their Infowars, the internet was not so great for them.

Anyways, this got me to thinking, "is this phenomenon new? have we as a society gotten worse at separating the info-wheat from the info-chaff?". Then, I thought back to previous, truly pre-internet generations. Back when most people's primary sources of news were the 3 (count'em three) nightly network TV newscasts, your local newspapers (more than one!) and radio stations, and some national newspapers and magazines (e.g.: NYT, Wash. Post, Time, Newsweek), there was really only so far wrong you could go. Sure, these sources were far from infallible, but they generally operated within normal bounds. If you really wanted to get into out-there stuff, you'd have to go out of your way to do stuff like subscribe to weirdo mailing lists and catalogs and whatnot. But of course, nowadays, you can get your wild, out-there stuff everywhere and, with the internet, this stuff is often presented at the same parity as the normal stuff making it even trickier to tell the difference. I mean, it's a little easier to tell that something is off when you're receiving your information via poorly mimeographed newsletters than when it's being delivered by slick, Web 2.0 websites just like the NYT or whatever.

I guess my point is, I suspect that, as a society, we've never been all that great (and probably not getting any better) at figuring out which sources of information to listen to. It's just that it hasn't been quite so damaging as it was until relatively recently.
posted by mhum at 8:32 AM on August 22, 2016 [105 favorites]


mhum, that's interesting. It's a sad suggestion that not natural selection but divergence in teaching of critical thinking skills is what it takes to divide us into Eloi and Morlocks.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:38 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car

Stiggin-it to the liberals, second only to drunkenness in causing purposely stupid, self-destructive behavior.

Did Trump catch any of the Olympics?

He wasn't in them, so no.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:39 AM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car

If it wasn't vandalism I'd buy a stack of Trump stickers and apply them to dumpsters and porto-potties.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:39 AM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


Well, I see a burning need for a Postroad FAQ app.

I mean, the guy was here in MetaFlintstone days.

There is also something to be said for not saying the same thing other people have said already lest the air grow rank with the fetid miasma of twisted knickers.
posted by y2karl at 8:41 AM on August 22, 2016 [19 favorites]


ugh guys can we please not feed the trolls?
posted by lonefrontranger at 8:42 AM on August 22, 2016 [29 favorites]


State GOP chair says party will handle Donald Trump’s ground game in Georgia (Atlanta Journal-Constitution, LaGrange Daily News)
The Georgia Republican Party chairman visited Troup County GOP members Thursday and updated them about the state party’s efforts to elect Donald Trump as president in November.

“Last time, we had about 21 offices scattered around the state,” Padgett said. “This year, we’re going to use your offices. We’re going to come in, and in some parts of the state share with you, and it’s going to be Trump-Troup County GOP. We’re in the process of working all that out and talking to chairmen around the state. We are going to be Trump’s ground folks.”
posted by goHermGO at 8:42 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I mean, it's a little easier to tell that something is off when you're receiving your information via poorly mimeographed newsletters than when it's being delivered by slick, Web 2.0 websites just like the NYT or whatever.

We're on to Web Bro.0: the Internet has fallen off the table and is rolling around unresponsively on the floor.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:43 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Stiggin-it to the liberals, second only to drunkenness in causing purposely stupid, self-destructive behavior.

One of the best, and most succinct, summaries of modern movement conservatism I've ever heard is cleek's law:
Today’s conservatism is the opposite of what liberals want today, updated daily.
posted by Gelatin at 8:43 AM on August 22, 2016 [46 favorites]


I found myself driving behind a car with a bunch of Hillary stickers yesterday, and it made me so happy. She won my state easily, but it's still pretty rare and special to see stickers. I have a magnet, but it won't stick to the back of the car, so it's on the side, so it's a little harder to see.
posted by Akhu at 8:43 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I've been thinking TrumpNews is the endgame from the very start of the presidential campaign. In that light, I can't imagine he even wants to win the presidency.
posted by codacorolla at 8:44 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


The thing that pisses me off the most about Trump News Network (and I agree, this has been the endgame for quite some time) is that it will probably be the only business he's been in in his life that's completely successful. He'll be able to retire rich and happy, damn it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:45 AM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


[Let's maybe collectively put Bumper Zingin' behind us here, on all fronts, and move on.]
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:46 AM on August 22, 2016 [26 favorites]


A Nazi media empire. Just right out there. Just . . Brzzp. Wow. Okay?

NYT? WaPo? Friggin SacBee? Wanna go get them on the Nazi thing or . . . (Shut the fuck up NPR, you're like a child that wanders into the middle of a movie . . )
posted by petebest at 8:46 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


for the students who could figure out what things on the internet were reliable and which weren't, the internet was a godsend. But, for the ones who couldn't tell their Wikipedias from their Infowars, the internet was not so great for them.

In my experience, what separates the wheat from the chaff is not critical thinking, but basic curiosity.
posted by Dashy at 8:47 AM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


He'll be able to retire rich and happy, damn it.

If it's any consolation, I don't think he's the type of person who will ever be "happy." He's just going to be a crankier orange crust in the end.
posted by mochapickle at 8:51 AM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


Adolph Reed: Vote for the Lying Neoliberal Warmonger: It’s Important

I'm not in any way endorsing some of the underlying criticisms of Hillary in this piece by linking to it, but I do think it's an interesting perspective from someone with a lot of "vote your conscience" / anti-lesser-evil cred. Seems like a good link to share with anyone in your circle of friends/family that has #NeverHillary tendencies.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:55 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


The thing that pisses me off the most about Trump News Network (and I agree, this has been the endgame for quite some time) is that it will probably be the only business he's been in in his life that's completely successful.

I don't know. Some observes see the writing on the wall for Fox News as it's currently constituted. If changes are needed in the network most associated with movement conservatism, it seems a strange time for Trump to jump in with a competitor that doubles down on the formula. (Of course, given what a lousy businessperson Trump seems to be, maybe it *isn't* so surprising...)

(By the way, the question I wished the NPR interviewer I mentioned earlier would have asked is, "Where do you get your information?" Is there any doubt that it'd be Fox across the board?
posted by Gelatin at 8:58 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


John Oliver to Trump: Drop Out

"If you keep going, you're going to spend the next 11 weeks ramping up hatred in speeches, injecting poison into the American bloodstream that will take generations to remove, and denying the country the contest of ideas that a presidential campaign should actually be," he said. "And after that, you're either going to win or you're going to lose, and I think both of those scenarios end pretty badly for you."
posted by mochapickle at 9:01 AM on August 22, 2016 [51 favorites]


Last year I saw a truck driving around with a Nixon/Agnew sticker on it. But here's the kicker: the truck was less than 15 years old and the sticker looked new. The owner probably would have had to get it custom printed.

I still think about that guy sometimes.
posted by dephlogisticated at 9:03 AM on August 22, 2016 [62 favorites]


Found a couple of really excellent Charles Blow columns in the NYT that are strong rebukes of the Republican candidate's hollow pandering to African-American people. Highly recommended reads.

In Why Blacks Loath Trump, Blow details the Republican candidate's history of discriminatory housing practices, his disgusting behaviour around the Central Park Five, his involvement in Birtherism, and even more recent racially-based insults.
[...] Trump ventured to a suburban town outside Milwaukee that is 95 percent white and 1 percent black to tell the black population of America — a population that has been consumed in recent years by a discussion of police misconduct and extrajudicial killings — that “the problem in our poorest communities is not that there are too many police, the problem is that there are not enough police.”

The speech was tone deaf, facile and nonsensical, much like the man who delivered it. [...]

All of black America is looking askance at Donald Trump. He has no credibility with black people, other than the handful of black staffers and surrogates who routinely embarrass themselves in their blind obsequiousness.

Trump has demonstrated through a lifetime of words and actions that he is no friend of the black community. [...]

This is the same man who has refused to reach out to black people in any way, including rejecting offers to speak before the N.A.A.C.P., the National Association of Black Journalists and the National Urban League. (Hillary Clinton spoke before all three.)

Donald Trump is the paragon of racial, ethnic and religious hostility. He is the hobgoblin of retrograde racial hegemony.

And this is the man who now wants to court the black vote? Puh-leese …
In Mr. Blow's piece today, Trump's Hollow 'Regrets', he effectively describes why the Republican candidate's expression of regret is meaningless to those who aren't already his supporters and why the candidate does not have the constitution (heh) to change.
I don’t believe, even for a nanosecond, that he regrets the personal impact of what he has said on anyone besides himself.

I believe that he only regrets that what he has said has not worked well for him in the general election portion of the campaign. That is the difference between regret as an act of public contrition and regret as an expression of personal disappointment in one’s own flagging fortunes. [...]

But it will take more than the 75-plus remaining days of this campaign to disassemble what it took 70 years of his life to build.

He is who he is.

This fragile narcissist, who is a sort of bottomless pit of emotional need and affirmation, is easily injured by even the slightest confrontation. [...]

Trump thinks of himself as a great man [...] but if current trends continue and he suffers a staggering loss on Election Day, his ego will be forever injured as he is assigned to history not as a great man but as a great disaster, a cautionary tale of what comes of a party that picks a con man as its frontman. [...]

There is something rotten at the core of this man that no length of script or turn of phrase can ameliorate.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:07 AM on August 22, 2016 [47 favorites]


Man, now I'm tempted to get a Bush '92 bumper sticker (you can find 'em on eBay) to put on my CR-V (first model year: 1995) just to add a touch of light surreality.

I'd go Clinton/Gore, but theirs didn't have a year on, and I'd hate for someone to think it was actually put on my car in '96.
posted by jackbishop at 9:08 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I've lost the chance now to ask how and why, but my parents supported McGovern, Carter and then Reagan. Charisma will take you a long way, I guess.
posted by maxwelton at 9:09 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Man, now I'm tempted to get a Bush '92 bumper sticker

What? No love for Wendell Willkie?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:14 AM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Charisma is nice, but even more important than that is being good at telling people what they want to hear. Reagan was the Michael Jordan of telling people what they want to hear.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:16 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


When it comes to talking to African Americans, Trump is more like the Michael Jordan as a baseball player of telling people what they want to hear.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:21 AM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


Which makes me miss my "PICARD-RIKER 1992: A Choice for the Next Generation."
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:22 AM on August 22, 2016 [21 favorites]


Yeah, but Jordan was at least *trying*, which in this case I'm not sure Trump actually is.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:23 AM on August 22, 2016


This morning I saw a VW with a Trump sticker on the back, and it seemed to me to be a perfect matryoshka doll of wishful self-delusion.

Like, "Only Volkswagen can manage to offer this level of driving performance while staying within emissions control standards, and only I am clever enough to select their vehicle" maps pretty clearly to "Only Mister Trump has the courage and ability to promise -- and deliver -- a repeal of NAFTA, to build a giant wall halfway across a continent, to revive the domestic manufacturing base, to reduce taxes, to reduce entitlement programs, to know the secret plans of every immigrant, and to keep me safe."

IF IT LOOKS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE, IT PROBABLY IS.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:27 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


For that to be an apt comparison, VW would have had to make those claims while rolling coal in a Tiguan. And sold cars anyway.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:29 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Charisma will take you a long way, I guess.

The way my friend describes it, since the 1960 election, the candidate that has the most Elvis in them is the winner.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 9:32 AM on August 22, 2016 [16 favorites]


Is there anywhere that sells a "Jefferson/Burr '00"?
posted by drezdn at 9:33 AM on August 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


Never bring facts to a feelings fight.

A few years ago, we visited Bali and toured a little town that worked to maintain its cultural heritage, e.g., an unusual calendar. Two traditions stood out: a coming-of-age ritual involving bare-chested gladiator-style fighting using a local cactus as a weapon and cock-fighting with brightly dyed birds. :( Thanks to a comical translation mishap, we thought our guide was saying that he had accidentally arrived to the former carrying a bird intended for the latter. It became a recurring joke: Never bring a chicken to a cactus fight.
posted by carmicha at 9:33 AM on August 22, 2016 [57 favorites]


Looks like there are. Thanks Google!
posted by drezdn at 9:33 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


This morning I saw a VW with a Trump sticker on the back

A little voice inside my head said "Don't look back, you can never look back."
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:35 AM on August 22, 2016 [81 favorites]


This was posted towards the end of the last thread: Meet the voters jumping off the Donald Trump train

By Friday, the 57-year-old office manager had found reason for hope. Trump had delivered two consecutive rally speeches from a Teleprompter script. He then visited the site of the flooding in Louisiana.

“I am tentatively hanging on the caboose of the Trump train again. I am ready to get off if it looks like it’s going to derail as bad as it has,” Loomis said. “I guess the ball’s in his court. If he continues to embarrass me: absolutely not.”


Translation: "I am so desperate to maintain my identity as a Republican that two semi-coherent speeches and a meaningless, cynical photo op in a disaster area where Trump was asked to stay away are enough for me to offset months of racist, sexist behaviour and violent rhetoric. I want to be on the winning team, and if it looks like the game is going to get out of hand in the fourth quarter I will go into the other room and put the other team's jersey on."
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:36 AM on August 22, 2016 [48 favorites]


I work in a pretty rural, conservative area and one of the things I've found most the most interesting is the shocking lack of Trump yard signs and bumper stickers. There are a couple of hand painted anti-Hillary signs but those were there before Trump even announced. There's plenty of signs aligned with the Cliven Bundy folks but I've seen a total of 3 Trump signs in an area that was just covered in Romney signs just a few years back.
posted by Dr. Twist at 9:36 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


LaRouche76/80/84/88/92/96/00/04/08/12/16...
posted by AJaffe at 9:38 AM on August 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


I think the lack of Trump signs is probably just as much to do with lack of ground game as with lack of popularity.

(I did notice that Trumpence yard signs are cheaper than Hillary yard signs tho)
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:39 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Those of you who have done volunteering, is it okay to just do a couple hours of an all-day event?

Totally! I've been phone-banking from home/office for Hillary (just dialed my 100th call) and also going in-person for the local congressional race. Seems like in both cases, they'll take whatever you can give. Every little bit helps!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:41 AM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


I am tentatively hanging on the caboose of the Trump train again.

I'll take terrible mangling of standard idiomatic metaphors for $400, Alex.

tentatively hanging on to a train seems like a good way to wind up on the tracks or underneath it, although given the violent rhetoric coming from the engine of this particular train maybe that's not as bad a phrase as it seems
posted by Existential Dread at 9:41 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I've been thinking TrumpNews is the endgame from the very start of the presidential campaign. In that light, I can't imagine he even wants to win the presidency.

Moore claims the Presidental bid was a bluff to renegotiate his Apprentice contract with NBC, which has since blown up in Trump's face. (Probably wasn't wise to insult every single NBC/Univision viewer). But the idea that Trump never wanted the Oval Office still holds.

The pivot to TrumpNewsNetwork is the real pivot, IMO.
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:41 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


TNN or whatever it'll be called will be a raging success. There's a big chunk of viewers who think Fox News is already getting way too soft because they're not reporting on illegal immigrants forcing heterosexual women to have abortions, 24/7.
posted by splen at 9:42 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


THISISAWFUL/MAKEITSTOP 2016
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:44 AM on August 22, 2016 [56 favorites]


A few years ago, we visited Bali and toured a little town that worked to maintain its cultural heritage, e.g., an unusual calendar. Two traditions stood out: a coming-of-age ritual involving bare-chested gladiator-style fighting using a local cactus as a weapon and cock-fighting with brightly dyed birds

My new Election 2016 ethnography will be entitled Creep Fray: Notes on a Diseased Cockstain
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:45 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


THISISAWFUL/MAKEITSTOP 2016

Cthulhu 2016. Why vote for the lesser... We may have to retire that campaign slogan.
posted by Francis at 9:46 AM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


The new Keepin' It 1600 is particularly worth a listen in the context of this discussion about where people get their information. The guest talks about exactly that: Atlantic senior editor Alex Wagner joins (37:50) to break down the media’s role in dealing with Trump-like behavior and the importance of relying on facts and figures in today’s media climate.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:48 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Sweet Meteor O' Death 2016: Because mass extinction might be the lesser evil.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:48 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


TNN or whatever it'll be called will be a raging success.

Hasn't 'TNN' been used in terribad movies as fake-CNN? (Like WNN has?)

I hope so.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:48 AM on August 22, 2016


A Vote For Cthulhu Is A Vote For The Median Evil
Vote Cthulhu 2016

posted by Spathe Cadet at 9:48 AM on August 22, 2016 [20 favorites]


I don't know whether to hope that Trump News can split the Republican party in two permanently and ensure a permanent Democratic majority, or be even more terrified of what an explicitly racist/fascist Alt-right, Alt-FOX propaganda machine will do to fan hate even more.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:50 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


We had our own attempt at a Trump News Network made up here in Canada a few years ago. It failed badly, but who knows what might have happened if they'd had more than $50 a show in the budget?
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:50 AM on August 22, 2016


TNN was "The Nashville Network" ...what Spike TV used to call itself when it was all Grand Ole Opry Live, Crook & Chase, and Dukes of Hazzard reruns.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:50 AM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Which makes me miss my "PICARD-RIKER 1992: A Choice for the Next Generation."

It's funny, because yesterday I was watching S4E21 of Star Trek: TNG, in which a visiting admiral charges an Enterprise crew member with treason solely because his grandfather was Romulan, and Picard gives an impassioned speech about the danger of hatred based upon heritage and how all of our freedoms are at risk when we give credence to this ignorant short-sighted prejudice, and I was thinking, "And here we are, 25 years later." Picard would kick Trump's ass.
posted by something something at 9:51 AM on August 22, 2016 [28 favorites]


Is there anywhere that sells a "Jefferson/Burr '00"?
They were both running for President - in those days the second place finisher got the VP job.
posted by thelonius at 9:52 AM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


at the Boston Comic Con a couple of weeks ago, I saw a lot of t-shits and bumperstickers that were for Kenobi/Skywalker '16: They're Our Only Hope
posted by briank at 9:53 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I've been thinking TrumpNews is the endgame from the very start of the presidential campaign.

Disagree. For this to be true it must be demonstrated that Trump is able to plan and execute a long-term business strategy, albeit of an unconventional sort.

As far as I can tell, though, this is a person who has basically careened from one failed business venture to another, only occasionally stumbling into modest success through no real fault of his own.

He's an id-dominated ego that happened to be born with a few hundred million dollars, so much money that it's taken him nearly 70 years to blow through it all. Luckily for him he has the knack of speaking to and for the majority of white Americans who really don't give a fuck about whether black and brown people live or die.

He well may start a media company after he loses -- but it wasn't his plan all along because he can't actually make plans. (And I don't think it would take off, honestly -- Sarah Palin tried it and it sputtered out. Turns out running even a rightwing feverswamp media company takes some actual business skills? And Trump can't just throw millions of dollars at it, anymore....)
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:53 AM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Hasn't 'TNN' been used in terribad movies as fake-CNN? (Like WNN has?)

I hope so.


TRUMP: I'll start my own airline too, Oceanic Airlines! Everyone loves oceans, vast and powerful, just like me and this campaign
posted by splen at 9:54 AM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


The way my friend describes it, since the 1960 election, the candidate that has the most Elvis in them is the winner.

Hmm. Nixon was more Elvis than Hubert Humphrey? He certainly was far less Elvis than RFK. But yeah, HH was pretty stodgy.
posted by msalt at 9:54 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


They were both running for President - in those days the second place finisher got the VP job.

They were running on the same ticket and the electoral college voters had two votes each. One of them was meant to vote for someone else and forgot (or "forgot") to put Jefferson in first and Burr in second.
posted by Francis at 9:55 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Come to think of it, The Nashville Network and Trump News Network would have some serious overlap in terms of demographics...
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:55 AM on August 22, 2016


Here's my lawn sign/bumper sticker report from Omaha (a small dot of purple in an otherwise red state):

* There's a house in my neighborhood with a very tacky set of bronze statues in the front yard, representing children at play. Throughout the year, the person who lives in this house dresses these statues in different clothing: military garb (four of the five branches) on veterans day, suits and dresses at Easter, elf costumes at Christmas, and Cornhusker uniforms when football season is getting started. This house had a Trump sign waaaaay back in the spring, but it disappeared after a couple of days and has never been replaced.

* I have seen no Trump bumper stickers. Not one. I've seen a couple of Romney bumper stickers left over from the last election, but no Trumps.

I'm not certain if this scarcity of material is due to local Republicans being discouraged about their candidate, or if it's because of incompetence at the Trump campaign itself. Both, maybe? Hopefully?
posted by Ipsifendus at 9:55 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'm not certain if this scarcity of material is due to local Republicans being discouraged about their candidate, or if it's because of incompetence at the Trump campaign itself.

I'd guess that the latter begets the former, so probably both.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:57 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Turns out running even a rightwing feverswamp media company takes some actual business skills?

Oh, he's not going to run it. Ailes and/or Bannon will run it. He'll license his name and do publicity for it (mainly just by being his own toxic self on Twitter and on camera).
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:58 AM on August 22, 2016 [21 favorites]


...but who knows what might have happened if they'd had more than $50 a show in the budget?

You're assuming Trump would spend his own cash on a media network. Oh nonononononosir.
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:58 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


"Bumper Sticker" report from Northern New Jersey:

There are at least two pickup trucks in my area that have custom paint jobs supporting Trump in 2016. One is a complete dissertation on why Hillary is "awful." The other is bright red with a flag waving and Trump 2016 in big letters on it. I guess, when a bumper sticker isn't large enough, there's another way to get your point across.

(Also, on my way to work, Trump signs outnumber Clinton Signs about 6 to 1).
posted by Stynxno at 9:59 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Purple area / blue county / purple state:

One large farmhouse had a big professional-looking Trump sign in the spring, but it disappeared some time before the conventions.

One Trump bumper sticker, which was on a gigantic, immaculately clean, white pickup with a gun rack. Driven by a white guy who looked about 60.

A couple people still have Bernie yard signs up, and I've seen Bernie stickers around as well.

I have yet to see Clinton stickers or signs anywhere.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 10:00 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm not certain if this scarcity of material is due to local Republicans being discouraged about their candidate, or if it's because of incompetence at the Trump campaign itself. Both, maybe? Hopefully?

I live in a VERY red suburb near a large midwestern city and there is exactly one Trump lawn sign in a 10 block radius of my home. If these people wanted the signs, they're more than available.
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:01 AM on August 22, 2016


I'm a Chicago suburbanite originally from West KY/TN. I'm not seeing many Clinton signs either, but the people I know personally who've put them up are reporting a high rate of vandalism/stealing/destruction of them.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:03 AM on August 22, 2016


The other day I saw a Kirk/Spock 2016 sticker on a car...the kicker is that the license plate was TREKKIE
posted by dabug at 10:04 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I've seen two Clinton bumper stickers on my street in deep blue Somerville, Mass. and the aforementioned Trump bunghole sticker. There's also an Obama - Made in America sticker and two large Black Lives Matter signs and a rainbow flag on the church. I quite like my street.
Overall though I've seen many more Bernie signs than Hillary ones. I even saw one Jill Stein one.
posted by peacheater at 10:06 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


So, I got around to ordering my hoodie, and was pleased to see that they've changed the red arrow to a blue one. It still points right, but I guess that's built in to our literacy.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:08 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


The only yard sign in my (suburban) neighbourhood is a Trumppence sign. In front of the house with a likely grandfathered-in oversized garage that at least one of the residents runs a plumbing business out of.

I had the opportunity to meet a bunch of neighbours for the first time at a National Night Out bbq earlier this month, and definitely got the impression that this is a very liberal area. I can see why Trump guy might feel the need to have his lawn declare his existence, I hope that no one does anything to the sign, and will I make a point of not calling him if I need plumbing work done.

Mr. Motion is a BoB and neither of us wants to bring ourselves to the attention of idiot vandals. So I doubt we'll be the first house on the street with a Hillary sign. I might start poking more if Sign Wars heats up around here.
posted by sparklemotion at 10:11 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I have yet to see Clinton stickers or signs anywhere.

I live in DC. I know a bunch of people who want to display Clinton signs, but have no yards to put them in. They don't get displayed outside but on inner walls (anecdotally: I have heard of some apartment buildings that ask tenants not to display political signs).

Again, this is DC, but I only see Trump hats on people standing on the left side of the escalator :-|
posted by everybody had matching towels at 10:11 AM on August 22, 2016 [31 favorites]


Has anyone else noticed that the Republican candidate's MAGA hat has been white more often recently? I don't think that is a coincidence.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:13 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Again, this is DC, but I only see Trump hats on people standing on the left side of the escalator :-|

Hah!!

Regional burn!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:14 AM on August 22, 2016 [31 favorites]


The way my friend describes it, since the 1960 election, the candidate that has the most Elvis in them is the winner.

I hope Michael J. Fox wasn't planning on running then.
posted by emjaybee at 10:14 AM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


My landlord sent a notice to all tenants to refrain from putting any political signage on the property in order to be respectful of everyone's viewpoints and prevent possible vandalism. Seemed a little oddly worded but I assume they just want to cover their asses.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 10:16 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I've seen two Clinton bumper stickers on my street in deep blue Somerville, Mass. and the aforementioned Trump bunghole sticker. There's also an Obama - Made in America sticker and two large Black Lives Matter signs and a rainbow flag on the church. I quite like my street.
Overall though I've seen many more Bernie signs than Hillary ones. I even saw one Jill Stein one.


Meanwhile over on Winter Hill (also in lovely Blue Somerville) we've got a rather comical "Nope and Noper" Gary Johnson sign. Saw a Trump sign on a possibly closed business in Cambridge and a gentleman in a far too large pickup with a Trump sticker. Still many Bernie stickers but Hillary stickers are on the rise.
posted by davros42 at 10:16 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I hope Michael J. Fox yt wasn't planning on running then.

elvis is in hillary, but he's trying to get out, man, he's trying to get out
posted by entropicamericana at 10:17 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Here in an overwhelmingly-but-not-entirely Democratic part of Philadelphia, I've just in the last month seen Clinton bumper stickers showing up (maybe on a half-dozen cars within several blocks); there were a few Sanders stickers during the primary, but not many. No yard signs as yet for any candidates.
posted by cjelli at 10:19 AM on August 22, 2016


I hope Michael J. Fox wasn't planning on running then.

I am so disappointed this is not a Spin City joke.
posted by zachlipton at 10:21 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I've never watched John Oliver until this election season - wow, but do I have tremendous respect for him (and he's super funny).

> "Just think about how triumphant it would feel to say on national television," Oliver added, quoting a fictitious Trump, "‘I openly ran on a platform of impossibly ignorant proposals steeped in racial bigotry and nobody stopped me. In fact, you embraced me for it. What the fuck was that about?’

"That would be one of the most powerful political speeches of all time. If you drop out in order to teach America a lesson, you would not be a loser. You would be a legend. There’d be a federal holiday in your honor."

posted by porpoise at 10:21 AM on August 22, 2016 [57 favorites]


Another car I saw had besides a Bernie sticker, stickers saying "If you're following me, you're lost" and "Boldly going nowhere". I feel like that's almost an anti-endorsement.
posted by peacheater at 10:22 AM on August 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


NEW EPISODE OF THE "WITH HER" HILLARY PODCAST (and it's Tim Kaine) someone from the campaign must have read my complaint in the last thread
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:24 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Well, thanks. I've been procrastinating about pulling the trigger on my bumpersticker order, and now I've ordered, and will happily display Clinton/Kaine. That a landlord can tell you not to announce your politics, that so many people are afraid to put a bumpersticker on their car for fear of vandalism and harassment, is exactly the abuse of free speech to which Trump and the politics of fear and hate have led us.
posted by theora55 at 10:24 AM on August 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


My question is what's the endgame of John Oliver's plan? Let's say Trump actually announced "yeah it was all a scam and you idiots fell for it," I mean he wouldn't, but let's say he did. Trump haters would obviously rejoice, and some Trump supporters would figure out how to retcon themselves out of the picture and pretend they never liked him, but what about the rest? Is there anybody out there who actually responds positively to being told: "yeah all that stuff I said for the past year that you totally ate it all up, it was one big scam and I did it to teach you a lesson. Consider yourself schooled" ? How would that, in any way, cause Trump supporters to seriously rethink their beliefs and their actions?

I mean, "and that's why you always leave a note" worked on Arrested Development, but "and that's why you never vote for a racist buffoon"-level trickery is unlikely to go over well.
posted by zachlipton at 10:29 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I live in the MD suburbs of DC. My neighbors are not shy of putting out political signs. There are no Clinton signs on my street, but there are several for Chris Van Hollen (long-time Rep. running for Senate). Make of that what you will.
posted by devinemissk at 10:29 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


It seems to me Trump has two prime needs: Have people think he's rich and have his ego stroked, and I think I have the order correct given his rules about jokes. Just the fact that he was important enough to roast satisfied his #2.

As for TrumpNews (he'll never allow for the glorious Trump name to be turned into an acronym) he will make money off licensing his name to the endeavor, and its existence and his inevitable appearances will feed his ego. He'll probably also find a way to hang some debt off of it to get cash to keep his other enterprises afloat, since that's what a good businessman does with a valuable asset.
posted by achrise at 10:30 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Here's a bumper sticker report from Southern Virginia: I've been trying to get bumper stickers since the convention; three orders but nothing yet. Local office would love to get me to sign-up as a volunteer but has no bumper stickers.
posted by DanSachs at 10:30 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Northern CA: I work in a super blue college town and recently moved to a much more purplish ag town, and it's Hillary stickers all over the place in both. I'm headed up into the mountains in a couple days, though, and am really curious to see how the distribution changes.
posted by mudpuppie at 10:31 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


John Oliver to Trump: Drop Out

I like John Oliver, but I have to agree with Dave Weigel here:
I don’t see why Oliver is asking Trump to quit the race, after he called him “Drumpf” and EVISCERATED him and he never won another primary

These little viral rants are well-intentioned, but will have about the same amount of lasting, real-world impact as any of Keith Olbermann's multitudinous "How Dare You, Sir?!" screeds against Bush back in the aughts.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:32 AM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


There are no Clinton signs on my street, but there are several for Chris Van Hollen (long-time Rep. running for Senate). Make of that what you will.

Nobody is worried about how MD goes for Prez.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:33 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


My question is what's the endgame of John Oliver's plan?

It's not an actual invitation, it's a rhetorical device.

Although if you want a response with all the seriousness of the scenario, it would certainly turn the tables on the Correspondent's Dinner crowd and allow Trump to set up a buffet line serving crow to everyone who mocked him everyone.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:35 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


These little viral rants are well-intentioned, but will have about the same amount of lasting, real-world impact as any of Keith Olbermann's multitudinous "How Dare You, Sir?!" screeds against Bush back in the aughts.

Well, they're funnier.
posted by Etrigan at 10:37 AM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


One reason we may all be seeing fewer lawn signs is that they don't actually do much, so campaigns would rather spend their money elsewhere.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 10:37 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I saw one Trump sign in my Northern Virginia neighborhood before the primary, and then it disappeared. (I am a 10-minute walk from the Loudoun County high school where Trump appeared and "kicked out" a crying baby, amongst other things.) We recently got a blast e-mail from the HOA reminding people that yard signs are only allowed 30 days prior to an election, must be removed within five days after the election, and limited to two political signs each no larger than 2' x 2'. We'll definitely see more signage in October.

I finally received my free No Way, No How, No Trump sticker last week but still waiting for the Clinton/Kaine stickers I paid for.
posted by candyland at 10:38 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Throughout these threads, we have been exploring the idea that Trump has been spending little on traditional campaign activities, like hiring people in every state experienced in campaigning to run his local campaign, hiring various national campaign staff, running media ads, etc.

Instead he has to a great degree hired his own companies and used his own staff to do various campaign work.

This article from The Oregonian has some more details about these arrangements:
Donald Trump likes to boast that he's funding his own presidential campaign and thus is not beholden to the special interests who own the "rigged" political system.

He also could be making a nice profit while he's at it.

Throughout the past year, "a large share of Trump's campaign money has been spent paying himself for the use of his Boeing 757, his smaller jet, his helicopter, his Trump Tower office space, and other services supplied by Trump businesses," Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist David Cay Johnston writes in his new book, "The Making of Donald Trump." In July alone, the Trump campaign spent some $2 million on private jets, plus another $500,000 for his 757, which includes gold-plated seatbelt buckles. . . .

The Associated Press reported Sunday that Trump's campaign expenses "more than doubled last month, even as the Republican presidential nominee held his payroll to about 70 employees, aired no television advertisements and undertook no significant operational buildout across the country."

So where's the money going?

Almost half of the campaign's $18.5 million in July spending went to an internet marketing firm with no political-campaign experience but is a "crossover vendor from Trump's real-estate organization." The president of the firm, Brad Pascale, serves as the campaign's digital-marketing director. . . .

While Trump is keeping his outlay for actual campaigning low, Hillary Clinton's campaign, in contrast, has about 700 employees and has already spent millions of dollars on TV ads, primarily in so-called "battleground states."
Because of campaign laws designed to prevent graft and de facto non-recorded donations, Trump's companies are required to charge full market rates for whatever services they provide to the campaign.
posted by flug at 10:40 AM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


(The study included a sign, at right, paid for by FreedomWorks and used in the most recent Virginia gubernatorial election, which unfortunately misspelled the name of the state.)


Virgina.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:41 AM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


> Hmm. Nixon was more Elvis than Hubert Humphrey? He certainly was far less Elvis than RFK. But yeah, HH was pretty stodgy.

I was around in 1968 (not able to vote yet, but I was Clean for Gene and worked the phone banks) and I hated Tricky Dick with a passion (still do, though my hatred has been somewhat diluted by even eviler presidents since), and I assure you that "pretty stodgy" is an extreme understatement and Nixon did indeed beat him hollow in that regard. Dwight Eisenhower was more Elvis than poor Hubie.
posted by languagehat at 10:43 AM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]




Some observes see the writing on the wall for Fox News as it's currently constituted.

Me. I think the Roger Ailes thing was the beginning of that.
posted by bongo_x at 10:45 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]




These little viral rants are well-intentioned, but will have about the same amount of lasting, real-world impact as any of Keith Olbermann's multitudinous "How Dare You, Sir?!" screeds against Bush back in the aughts.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:32 AM on August 22 [+] [!]


Sometimes they matter. Stephen Colbert's host-turned-roaster gig at the 2006 White House correspondents dinner seemed to change the national media perspective on a gd dime. It was the only true "the emperor has no clothes" moment I've ever witnessed, and it was a lifeline of hope and sanity for everyone who felt like they'd been screaming into the void for six years.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:49 AM on August 22, 2016 [49 favorites]


I've seen one Gary Johnson sign in my neighborhood, and no other lawn signs. A few Bernie bumper stickers. Aside from mine, I've seen maybe two Hillary bumper stickers.

Up across from the entrance to the local Costco, someone's erected a gigantic Trump billboard, so that it's the main thing you see when you exit the Costco parking lot. It apparently gets vandalized enough that the owner has put up a second, equally gigantic, hand-painted sign informing the world that vandalism is a crime.
posted by lovecrafty at 10:49 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Has anyone else noticed that the Republican candidate's MAGA hat has been white more often recently? I don't think that is a coincidence.

The color key got leaked.

So it's most likely going to be 100% white from here on out, no matter what Trump might actually be thinking.
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:51 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


So wait, is there a mechanism by which a government institution can investigate the campaign to be sure Trump is not primarily funneling funds into his own exclusive self-interest?

And if so, can I be there while they're investigating?

Furthermore, will there be popcorn?
posted by Tevin at 10:51 AM on August 22, 2016


Who needs Fox or even a Trump News Network when you have the One America News Network? It replaced Headline News on my cable lineup.
posted by charred husk at 10:53 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm in Mississippi, and I, too, have seen relatively few stickers/signs for Trump. But when I DO, man, it's almost just never one or even two small tasteful stickers. It's a pickup with TRUMP all the hell over it along with anti-abortion stuff, Bible verses. You can't see the terrible paint job for all the nuttery. You know what they say about the South: we don't stick our eccentrics in the attic, we prop 'em up right on the porch in a rocking chair.
posted by thebrokedown at 10:54 AM on August 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


" (The study included a sign, at right, paid for by FreedomWorks and used in the most recent Virginia gubernatorial election, which unfortunately misspelled the name of the state.)"

Virgina.


Virgina is For Lovers
posted by komara at 10:54 AM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]




Before the convention, I saw waaaay more Bernie signs and bumper stickers than Hillary. After the convention, the Bernie signs are still there but Hillary signs started sprouting up, most notably in the upper middle class, predominantly Jewish neighborhood my parents live in. In my predominantly working and middle-middle class , fairly racially-integrated neighborhood, there's just one Bernie sign and nothing else. I'm hoping my yard sign gets delivered before the election?

Seriously, I dare a motherfucker to vandalize my house or my car. Come at me, bro.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:55 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Here's a bumper sticker report from Southern Virginia: I've been trying to get bumper stickers since the convention; three orders but nothing yet. Local office would love to get me to sign-up as a volunteer but has no bumper stickers.

I ordered my pins and bumper magnets before the DNC, they still haven't arrived. I was not that enthusiastic about the magnet choices so I went over to Cafe Press which has hundreds of choices and I got a couple which arrived very quickly. I like the magnets because you can save them and put them on your refrigerator. I still have my Obama/Biden 08.

My husband works at the Raleigh Main Post Office and he says he has only seen one sticker. It was a very small Trump sticker on a Prius. He described the sticker as un-trumplike as it was small and discrete, decidedly non-flashy.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:56 AM on August 22, 2016


[real] 12-year-old running Trump campaign office in Colorado
Imer's mother, Laurel Imer, is the official field coordinator on paper, but she wants to give her son most of the responsibility and help show other parents - Democrat or Republican - how to get their kids involved.
This is most Trump-inspired thing I've read all election. Mom has her name on the paper, but shifts all her responsibility elsewhere and the real decisions are being made by a 12 year old. It's his whole campaign reductio ad absurdum.
posted by maryr at 10:56 AM on August 22, 2016 [65 favorites]


Data point: I'm a lefty by any measure, and when I see a Trump sticker I don't get angry. I just think "what a dumbfuck."

So on the access road that gets you to the SCA's Pennsic War (about an hour north of Pittsburgh) there was a car COVERED with Trump stuff - to the point where, if you wanted to drive it, you'd have to spend significant time clearing the windows, probably to send a message to the 11,000 "hippies" camping up the hill. The punchline? The car was a Volvo.

Anyhow, despite trying to troll a city of 11000 alt culture types, near as I can tell, nobody did a thing to the car besides laugh at it.

But, seriously, a Volvo? That's like Mark Twain caliber irony.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 10:58 AM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


There's a Trump sign down the street from me. A Jill Stein sign sits across the street from it.

One of the more discouraging things I saw when traveling a while back was a Trump signs along the road. The sign was hand-made and added to the sign it read, "Go ahead and vandalize this one. I'll just make another." I drove by a day later and he had a new sign out with signs of spray paint around it. I really wish people wouldn't feed the usual conservative persecution complex with actual persecution.
posted by charred husk at 10:58 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Just returning from the outer edge of red Washington State - no bumper stickers sighted, but the sign report from the Real America town I grew up in is a single Trump sign from the primary, with a piece of printer paper taped to it that warned of a camera. Saw about a half dozen of the large size general election Trump signs along Highway 2 on the way back. None with the short lived TP logo, sorry to say.

In my own neighborhood, in the heart of blue Washington, Bernie remains a cult figure. Those signs and stickers aren't going anywhere soon. The one from in front of my own house is gone because my roommate and I told our other roommate that, as Clinton supporters both, we weren't comfortable living behind a Bernie sign now that he had lost the nomination (this was about a week after the California primary). Our roomate has become a grudging but clear-eyed Clinton supporter since then.

I want to put up a Hillary sign, but our town has a seriously bad young white manarchist vandalism problem. It's common to see houses, fences and garages tagged with "ACAB" in our neighborhood because some dudes in our town are just so darn woke that they need to tell everyone so on someone else's property. We've been lucky not to get hit yet, but I'm dead certain a Hillary sign would bring that lucky streak to an end. So I wear my H crest shirt instead while processing my resentment for the destructive children I share a neighborhood with.

The neighborhood Fail Truck has a Hillary for Prison sticker and a gun rights sticker. The dude's last Fail Truck had white supremecist stickers all over the back of it until he wanted to put it up for sale.

In a related story, I can't wait to move out of this town.
posted by EatTheWeak at 11:00 AM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


LaRouche76/80/84/88/92/96/00/04/08/12/16...

You think Lyndon LaRouche only ran for President in years when there was actually a presidential election? Oh, you sweet summer child...
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:01 AM on August 22, 2016 [26 favorites]


hmm just saw a Boston Globe tweet about a gun rights rally and how the organizers asked them to leave their Confederate flags at home.

I mean, that's the nice thing about Confederate flags as well as Trump signs on the lawn: one is fully aware who the racist assholes are.

I'm a little worried that the push back against Trump's racism has exacerbated that weird white people thing where they get so sad about being called a racist and somehow this leads not them becoming not racist but more so.

I mean not sure what the answer is, but if slavery being our original sin is written into our popular consciousness, maybe it's seen as like describing people as satan worshipers and people are like NO it's THE GREAT HORNED ONE I worship how dare you I challenge you to a duel.
posted by angrycat at 11:03 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]



Donald Trump, Shifting Immigration Tone, Stresses a ‘Fair’ Approach

He's pivoting! PIVOTING!


There has been a lot of press coverage about this this weekend because everyone is trying to parse what it means. Hire a well-known racist to run your campaign and then soften on immigration? But he seems to be trying to have it both ways. To the Hispanic community it is "We will be "humane" (his spokeswoman actually used that word) and the method will be determined at a later date." However with his racist base it is all "*wink wink* We are not changing."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:04 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I wanted to grab the convention sign package so I could display a Bernie sign and a Stronger Together sign in my front windows, but it appears I'm too late.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:06 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


There has been a lot of press coverage about this this weekend because everyone is trying to parse what it means.

Trump Is Going To Keep Faux-Pivoting Until We All Fall For It

Not sure I agree with the hypothesis that journalists and pundits are ever going to fall for it -- I don't necessarily have a lot of love for them, but I'm pretty sure they'll be able to remember the things Trump's been saying about them so far -- but it will be interesting to find out.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 11:07 AM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Oh if anyone wants a "Stronger Together" bumper sticker, I have a spare. First person to MeFi mail with an address can have it.
posted by strange chain at 11:07 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


There are no Clinton signs on my street, but there are several for Chris Van Hollen (long-time Rep. running for Senate). Make of that what you will.

Nobody is worried about how MD goes for Prez.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:33 PM on August 22


Agreed that no one is worried about how MD will go -- and I'm definitely not worried on my stereotypically overeducated liberal street. I just find it an interesting data point. Maybe it would be more to the point to note that I haven't seen any Hillary signs all year -- nor any Bernie signs (and dollars to donuts there are at least a few folks on my block who were pro-Bernie). It's like the presidential race just isn't happening on my street.
posted by devinemissk at 11:09 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


John Oliver is a comedian, his endgame is comedy.
posted by zutalors! at 11:10 AM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


I'm a little worried that the push back against Trump's racism has exacerbated that weird white people thing where they get so sad about being called a racist and somehow this leads not them becoming not racist but more so.

I don't think pushing back against Trump's racism is actually making anyone more racist*; it's that Trump's racism is emboldening people who were already racist to speak out, which informs how they respond to push-back, creating a perception of new or stronger racism. But the racism was inside them all along, just waiting for the right (wrong?) person to draw it out.

*I am thinking here mostly of adults I know; I do separately worry that Trump's rhetoric is actually making the next generation of children more racist than they otherwise would be, by voicing what modern politicians leave unsaid.
posted by cjelli at 11:11 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Oh if anyone wants a "Stronger Together" bumper sticker, I have a spare. First person to MeFi mail with an address can have it.

Yoink!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:11 AM on August 22, 2016


Not sure I agree with the hypothesis that journalists and pundits are ever going to fall for it -- I don't necessarily have a lot of love for them, but I'm pretty sure they'll be able to remember the things Trump's been saying about them so far -- but it will be interesting to find out.

Of course they remember, but (a) the media has a strong financial incentive to create the illusion of a competitive race, and (b) recent history shows that the press is exceedingly credulous when it comes to taking Republicans' centrist appeals at face value even when it's at odds with their deeds and previous words. Trump himself has flipped and flopped so many times with barely any notice in the media -- why should we believe they're going to turn on him now?
posted by tonycpsu at 11:13 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


It's like the presidential race just isn't happening on my street

I think that's literally true.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:14 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


*I am thinking here mostly of adults I know; I do separately worry that Trump's rhetoric is actually making the next generation of children more racist than they otherwise would be, by voicing what modern politicians leave unsaid.

Some kids, probably, but I think it may be having the opposite effect for others: a decent number of kids are learning from Trump, Black Lives Matter, etc... that there's still a lot of work to be done and that we aren't really living in a "post-racial society" where society is a big happy rainbow all the time. In a way, that's progress over a decade ago.

On the other hand, bullies are taunting their Hispanic and Muslim classmates by yelling "Trump" and "build a wall" at them on the playground, so yeah, not so great.
posted by zachlipton at 11:16 AM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


Oh! Turns out we'd met the 12-year-old in Colorado before, when he made some calls to try to intimidate #NeverTrump delegates at the RNC:
In particular, there was a deep resentment at what they called “soft thug tactics” by Trump supporters to encourage them to support the presumptive nominee. One candidate for alternate received a voicemail from a 12-year-old who insisted he was speaking on behalf of both the Trump campaign and the Colorado Republican party and said that the Colorado Republican party wanted nothing to do with the effort to “free the delegates”. Davis soon clarified that the 12-year-old was only speaking on behalf of the Trump campaign and warned gravely: “I think every Colorado delegate to Cleveland has to examine their conscience and live with the guilt that comes with voting to weaken Donald Trump, our Republican nominee.” Another was told in a phone call from the 12-year-old Trump supporter that those seeking to free the delegates were somehow plotting to steal nomination from the real estate developer and hand it to Jeb Bush.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 11:16 AM on August 22, 2016 [25 favorites]


Oh, he's not going to run it. Ailes and/or Bannon will run it. He'll license his name and do publicity for it (mainly just by being his own toxic self on Twitter and on camera).

Good point. Trump is the tacky love child of Boris Johnson and Lord Conrad Black, isn't he.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:18 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


> Trump himself has flipped and flopped so many times with barely any notice in the media -- why should we believe they're going to turn on him now?

Just off the top of my head, because he's taken to making them feel physically unsafe during his rallies.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 11:18 AM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


In Florida, I've seen Trump signs in front of million-dollar beach houses, as well as one on a Prius otherwise adorned with religious stickers. The scariest are the "Law enforcement for Trump" stickers.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 11:19 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Spathe Cadet: Oh! Turns out we'd met the 12-year-old in Colorado before, when he made some calls to try to intimidate #NeverTrump delegates at the RNC:

Oh my. I see Die Trumperjugend has really hit the ground running.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:21 AM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


Just off the top of my head, because he's taken to making them feel physically unsafe during his rallies.

99% of the media isn't at the rallies. Katy Tur certainly has friends and colleagues who may be compelled enough by her story to do a better job accurately reporting Trump's contradictions, but a much larger proportion of the media ecosystem isn't there and has no reason to feel threatened.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:24 AM on August 22, 2016


Donald Trump can't even tie a tie correctly. Sad!
"It's ludicrous and no one is pointing it out. It's egregiously long. My guess is that he buys Italian ties (which often are longer because Italians like to tie up a big knot) but then he ties a regular knot — probably a half Windsor."
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:25 AM on August 22, 2016 [27 favorites]


a much larger proportion of the media ecosystem isn't there and has no reason to feel threatened.

The media is called The Village for a reason. There's maybe three degrees of separation.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:27 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I can't really bring myself to be mad at a 12-year-old kid, however much I may be picturing him as a real-life Draco Malfoy.

His parents really should have had words with him about his calling up people to make threats though. It should merit at least a day's grounding. Family values, &c.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:27 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I don’t see why Oliver is asking Trump to quit the race, after he called him “Drumpf” and EVISCERATED him and he never won another primary

oh man, if I never saw another link where somebody "eviscerates" or "destroys" some right-wing nonsense, I'd be so happy. I like a smart comeback as much as anyone but that language just underscores the total impotence of being witty and erudite, which is pretty much all I know how to do.
posted by Countess Elena at 11:29 AM on August 22, 2016 [24 favorites]


The scariest are the "Law enforcement for Trump" stickers.

Due to the quirks of my city's ordinances about certain city employees having to live within the city limits intersecting with housing prices, my neighborhood is chock-a-block with first responders, many cops amongst them. They are mostly perfectly fine people, but there was one family who used to live the next street over (they moved last year) where the dad was the coppiest-looking cop who ever rocked a high-and-tight and I knew he was an asshole because they'd put a bumper sticker on one of their kids' (given their very Irish last name, I assumed Catholic and they had I think four little toe-headed sons) Big Wheels that said "Liberals make me SICK" with a Mr. Yuck face.

Dude. DUDE. Hateful bumper stickers (in a neighborhood that voted 80% Obama, hello!) on your own car--when you're a public servant, no less--is one thing, but putting that shit on your kids' toys?! That is the mark of a true asshole.

I'm sure he took a job in a nice, comfortable lily white suburb where he gets paid twice as much to get shot at 100% less (I can't really blame him on that score), and good riddance, doucherocket.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:29 AM on August 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


Donald Trump can't even tie a tie correctly. Sad!
"It's ludicrous and no one is pointing it out. It's egregiously long. My guess is that he buys Italian ties (which often are longer because Italians like to tie up a big knot) but then he ties a regular knot — probably a half Windsor."


Haha! I can never un-see this. Now any time I see a picture of the Donald, I'll notice how ridiculously long he wears his ties, and how ridiculous it makes him look.
posted by devinemissk at 11:30 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


doesn't he realize that giant ties will only make his tiny hands look tinier?
posted by poffin boffin at 11:32 AM on August 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


I will never forgive the people who have conspired to make me look at Donald Trump's crotch.
posted by Etrigan at 11:34 AM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


I always assumed the long ties thing was an effort to make himself somehow look slimmer.
posted by dis_integration at 11:35 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


a much larger proportion of the media ecosystem isn't there and has no reason to feel threatened.

There are almost certainly a few producers out there thinking 'Oh man, if one of our reporters were to get killed? That would be RATINGS!'

"Hey Margo? How'd you like to cover the Trump rally tonight? "
posted by happyroach at 11:36 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]




Stephen Colbert's host-turned-roaster gig at the 2006 White House correspondents dinner seemed to change the national media perspective on a gd dime.

But unfortunately that change in perspective was "never invite Stephen Colbert back." I disagree with the larger perspective; he called the media out for acting like stenographers, but they're little less so now. They'll *occasionally* call out some of Trump's more obvious whoppers, but they're so deathly afraid of being accused of so-called "liberal media bias" -- by critics who are not at all acting in good faith -- that they retreat to their phony "balanced" model time and again.

(Listen to Trump's supporters in that NPR interview I linked earlier -- they parrot the line that he tells it like it is, even when his pattern of lies is beyond obvious. They'd rather believe him than their own lying eyes.)
posted by Gelatin at 11:37 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


The 12 year old now running a CO Trump campaign office made threatening phone calls to #nevertrump RNC delegates

What I wouldn't give for a recording of this little prick making a threatening phone call to MeFi's own corb.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:38 AM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


Internet sleuthing indicates that Trump used to be able to tie his ties properly.

Maybe, like many old men, his waistbands have crept up over the years while he's continued tying his ties the same length?
posted by stolyarova at 11:39 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


you know i'm tempted to make fun of Trump's tie thing but as a chick who wore skinny pink ties in the '80s, it's hard for me to. Ties are hard, jeez.
posted by angrycat at 11:43 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Oh if anyone wants a "Stronger Together" bumper sticker, I have a spare. First person to MeFi mail with an address can have it.

Yoink!


Naw, he 'buttoned' a year ago.
 
posted by Herodios at 11:43 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


The less said about Trump's ties, either the ones he wears or the ones he sells, the better.

I could at least respect a Republican party that would nominate some old money patrician who wore an understated Brooks Brothers tie, tied four-in-hand, even if I wouldn't vote for him.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:44 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Maybe, like many old men, his waistbands have crept up over the years while he's continued tying his ties the same length?

Going by the recent photos, no. He appears to have glommed onto Italian Ties = Quality without any curiosity about why they were so long.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:45 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Donald Trump can't even tie a tie correctly. Sad!

Are we really arguing about this? I mean, hell, 80% of American men don't even know there's a knot other than the Half-Windsor.
posted by dw at 11:49 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Maybe, like many old men, his waistbands have crept up over the years while he's continued tying his ties the same length?

The belt is my point of reference for how long a tie should be. If the belt crept up, my landmark for tie length would do the same. I can't tie a damn tie without a landmark!

I refuse to contemplate putting on a tie in the nude
posted by Existential Dread at 11:50 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


> 99% of the media isn't at the rallies. Katy Tur certainly has friends and colleagues who may be compelled enough by her story to do a better job accurately reporting Trump's contradictions, but a much larger proportion of the media ecosystem isn't there and has no reason to feel threatened.

It's not just Katy Tur, though.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 11:51 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm not going to make fun of him here because I commit that faux pas all the damn time as a stumpy 5'6" dude who has to choose between the tie hanging below my waist or the thin end being lower than the wide end.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:52 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


guess what folks, the tie just got ten windsors longer
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:53 AM on August 22, 2016 [30 favorites]


but as a chick who wore skinny pink ties in the '80

Which was the height of fashion. (Were they knit? It's OK, it was a different time.)

Are we really arguing about this? I mean, hell, 80% of American men don't even know there's a knot other than the Half-Windsor.

True, but this is the guy who's built his brand about bling and sophistication, so it's fair game. Hell, I couldn't do anything besides a half-windsor without looking it up, but I still know to start over and re-adjust my tie if it's too long.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:55 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


they were totally fucking knit. and i wore them with rainbow-striped trousers.
gah
posted by angrycat at 11:56 AM on August 22, 2016 [26 favorites]


Ugh I wish there were another season of Great British Bake Off. I need soothing from this awful political cycle. As it is I'm putting off my oil change because I have a horrible suspicion that my mechanic (who was a Cruz supporter) will now be a Trump voter. :(
posted by stolyarova at 11:56 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


>> a much larger proportion of the media ecosystem isn't there and has no reason to feel threatened.

> The media is called The Village for a reason. There's maybe three degrees of separation.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:27 AM on August 22 [+] [!]


To be fair, it's called The Village for two reasons. First is the thing you've observed. Second is because if you try to leave, a giant menacing weather balloon chases you down and eats you.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:57 AM on August 22, 2016 [44 favorites]


> I mean, hell, 80% of American men don't even know there's a knot other than the Half-Windsor.

Alt-favorites:

- The Demi-Tasse Nelson
- Bow-tie Thai Bow
- Hand-in-Hand-in-Hand (aka, Escher's Lash)
- Grandpa's Whimsy
- Nelson: Final Form
- Neckjobber
posted by Tevin at 11:57 AM on August 22, 2016 [30 favorites]


However one chooses to knot them, the back part of the tie must be the same length as the front, and one must stuff said back part through the loop on the back of the front part. I will not be dissuaded from this.
posted by AJaffe at 11:58 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


It's not just Katy Tur, though.

Yes, but I just don't know that there's a lot of solidarity between the front-line reporters and the class of media figures that people look to for analysis and opinion. A Presidential candidate siccing his supporters on members of the press is pretty much unprecedented, so I can't say with certainty that I know how this will play out, but Trump's been doing this for quite some time and I've noticed no significant shift in how he's being covered.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:58 AM on August 22, 2016


Donald Trump can't even tie a tie correctly

The single worst thing* about Donald Trump is that he doesn't even have the decency to look the part of the evil rich Republican (well-coifed, finely tailored, pristinely manicured). Instead, he's every inch the slovenly lump as either me or Michael Moore.

*This is not even close to the worst thing about Donald Trump.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:59 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


(...I assumed Catholic and they had I think four little toe-headed sons) Big Wheels that said "Liberals make me SICK" with a Mr. Yuck face.

Dude. DUDE. Hateful bumper stickers (in a neighborhood that voted 80% Obama, hello!) on your own car--when you're a public servant, no less--is one thing, but putting that shit on your kids' toys?! That is the mark of a true asshole.


Yeah, but we need to show some sympathy for those kids, because finding hats that fit must be hell.
posted by mudpuppie at 11:59 AM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


Would a president unable to appear outdoors without a hat be a better thing if he had better taste in hats?
posted by Artw at 12:01 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


To clarify on the mechanic thing, it's an adorable family business that we've been taking our cars to for 7+ years, and they've always been great to us (extremely honest, fair, and transparent). But the dad (who mostly hangs out in the lobby now while his son runs the shop) loves to pick my brain on politics and while I normally don't mind I know he's bought into BENGHAZI!!!!!!!!! and EMAILS!!!!!!!!! and I just don't have the energy and also don't know how to defuse the situation tactfully.
posted by stolyarova at 12:01 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


the back part of the tie must be the same length as the front

Some of us would look like this.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:01 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Ugh I wish there were another season of Great British Bake Off. I need soothing from this awful political cycle.

A new series starts on Wednesday!

(I don’t know what hoops you would have to jump through to see it in the US, though)
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 12:02 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Virgina

Dolores!

I live in Northern Virginia and I have yet to see a Trump or Clinton bumper sticker or yard sign in the wild. My sister just moved to Culpeper (past the exurbs into rural Va), so I've driven down there for the last three weekends but no Trump yard signs or bumper stickers spotted which is a little surprising.

I do pass maybe five yard signs every day for our incumbent representative for the 10th congressional district; she's a moderate republican in a lightly gerrymandered district, who rates an F from some whack-a-doodie conservative think tank, and has re-gifted $3000 in Trump donations from her 2014 run to wounded veterans organizations.
posted by peeedro at 12:03 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


5 Points on the Weird Ways Trump's Campaign Is Spending Its Money:
  1. Trump's Campaign Paid One Company More Than $8 Million
  2. Trump's Campaign Spent More on Arena Rentals Than Staff
  3. Trump's Still Spending Far Less Than His Counterparts Have at This Point
  4. Trump's Investing Heavily in Swag [more than payroll]
  5. Trump's Campaign Has Continued to Spend With Trump-Owned Businesses
posted by kirkaracha at 12:04 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


A new series starts on Wednesday!

New-new as in post-Nadiya (she was SO ADORABLE) or as in Nadiya's season? Because if you mean post-Nadiya this is the BEST NEWS I HAVE HAD IN WEEKS. <3
posted by stolyarova at 12:04 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


New new.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 12:06 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


The tie thing just makes me think again about how ridiculous ties are. What is that about my friends?? Ties are weird. No on ties.
posted by wemayfreeze at 12:08 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Bow ties are cool.
posted by stolyarova at 12:09 PM on August 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish
For some reason I've remembered this, from Douglas Adams's The Deeper Meaning of Liff, since high school:
RANFURLY (adj.)
Fashion of trying ties so that the long thin end underneath dangles below the short fat upper end.
posted by rp at 12:09 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


5 Points on the Weird Ways Trump's Campaign Is Spending Its Money:

Gah the long tie is there in point 1

I'm never going to not see this now
posted by Existential Dread at 12:09 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


If Larry Lessig had gotten further we might have seen a bow-tied nominee. Who was the last candidate to wear a bow tie?
posted by stolyarova at 12:12 PM on August 22, 2016


Paul Simon? No, not that Paul Simon, another Paul Simon.
posted by davros42 at 12:14 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Who was the last candidate to wear a bow tie?

Probably Paul Simon.
posted by dw at 12:14 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Senator Simon wears a bow tie and I simply don't think america is ready for a presidential candidate, much less a president, who wears bow-ties -- especially in the 1980s.
posted by sparklemotion at 12:15 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Who was the last candidate to wear a bow tie?

William McKinley was a bow tie man.
posted by peeedro at 12:15 PM on August 22, 2016


No, not that Paul Simon, another Paul Simon.

They get mixed up all the time.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:17 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Roger "literally on Trump's payroll" Stone: Trump “Should Release His Tax Returns Immediately”

So I guess this means that the returns are coming soon and they're just building up anticipation to make the very act of releasing a victory?
posted by acidic at 12:17 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]




Washington Post today: The FBI found 15,000 emails Hillary Clinton didn’t turn over. Uh oh.

Clickbaity headline! From waaay down at the bottom of the article:
It's not clear, of course, whether any/all of these emails and documents were work-related.
[...]
To be clear: Clinton has already been cleared of any official wrongdoing in the matter by Comey. And Comey and the FBI were aware of this latest batch of emails — hell, they found them! -- when he rendered his judgment on Clinton.
So, nothing actually new or noteworthy here. Just continuing to stoke those fires of right wing outrage. Okay then. Thanks, WP!
posted by Roommate at 12:18 PM on August 22, 2016 [31 favorites]


Donald Trump Reportedly Thought He Could Continue Starring In ‘The Apprentice’ As President.

The link I posted earlier about Trump using his Presidential bid as a bargaining chip w/NBC didn't make much sense when I first read it. Now it does.
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:18 PM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


5 Points on the Weird Ways Trump's Campaign Is Spending Its Money:

1. Kickbacks
2. Kickbacks
3. Kickbacks
4. Kickbacks
5. Kickbacks
posted by mightygodking at 12:20 PM on August 22, 2016 [16 favorites]




I do not approve of bow ties. Except on tiny babies or occasionally, pets.

Trump in a bow tie would look like he was being strangled.
posted by emjaybee at 12:22 PM on August 22, 2016


Several more recent presidents have worn them at least occasionally.

Isn't that Obama pic a badly photoshopped clown tie? (though there are plenty of real pictures to choose from)
posted by mazola at 12:22 PM on August 22, 2016


Trump in a bow tie would look like he was being strangled.

Ah, now you see why we're advocating it.
posted by Etrigan at 12:22 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Several more recent presidents have worn them at least occasionally.

Tuxedos don't count.
posted by dis_integration at 12:23 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


>Explicitly Racist Campaign Caught Employing Racists

That's a great read, Horace Rumpole, thank you. And by great, I mean I am glad that they named the people individually and reported about how the racists acted and reacted, and then followed that up with a contrast to 2012's campaign.
posted by cashman at 12:28 PM on August 22, 2016


Interesting perspective from the Baltimore Sun via Google News:
Trump doubles down on Trump
Baltimore Sun - ‎1 hour ago‎
This is a modal window. This modal can be closed by pressing the Escape key or activating the close button. Close. This is a modal window. This modal can be closed by pressing the Escape key or activating the close button. Foreground. ---, White, Black ...
I honestly didn't think they'd go there.
 
posted by Herodios at 12:28 PM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


Any given cat in a bow tie would be a better president than Trump (though arguably more likely to literally end up with his foot in his mouth).
posted by stolyarova at 12:28 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


BOWTIE CAT/PANTS CHICKEN 2016
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 12:30 PM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


How the first liberal Supreme Court in a generation could reshape America:
A liberal Court could end long-term solitary confinement. It could mandate better prison conditions in general, making it more costly to maintain mass incarceration. It could conceivably end the death penalty. It could uphold tough state campaign finance rules and start to move away from Citizens United. It could start to develop a robust right to vote and limit gerrymandering. It could strengthen abortion rights, moving toward viewing abortion rights as a matter of equal protection for women.

If Donald Trump wins in November, this is all moot. But if he loses, as polls increasingly indicate, the dawn of a new era of liberal jurisprudence could be upon us.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:31 PM on August 22, 2016 [36 favorites]


It would be nice if a liberal Supreme Court would do something about mass surveillance and the TSA. :(
posted by stolyarova at 12:32 PM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


MSNBC is covering the AP story about Trump staffers posting racist things online, as breaking news right now. The Associated Press has reached out to Trump but no response yet.
posted by cashman at 12:39 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I read
http://bigstory.ap.org/
as
http://bigotry.ap.org

and thought -- finally, URLing it what it is.
posted by Dashy at 12:41 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


This campaign has been like no other, and it's been GREAT in terms of investigative journalism. Go AP!
posted by Dashy at 12:42 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


From the AP story:
AP also reviewed images attached to more than 19,000 stolen internal emails from the Democratic National Committee for racially or religiously inflammatory memes, finding nothing of note.

A: this is good and B: goddamn that's a lot of email to review.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:43 PM on August 22, 2016 [27 favorites]


Donald Trump can't even tie a tie correctly. Sad!

Will the horrors never cease? Damn dude, that's 101 level dressing.
posted by bongo_x at 12:45 PM on August 22, 2016


Can't be that hard to filter 19,000 emails and look for any LOLGIFs buried in the attachments.
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:45 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Is it just my skewed perception or has the blatantly racist social media (and sometimes actual media) profiles of many of its surrogates just gone... mostly unchallenged until now? I sort of feel like any other campaign employing (in any capacity) someone with super offensive Twitter feeds would be forced to fire said person and put out a very strongly-worded press release utterly repudiating said person and attesting ignorance of their awful views within like an hour of the news breaking. But Trumps entire campaign is now being run by a dude whose editorial purview includes such gems as "Birth Control Makes Women Unattractive and Crazy" and everyone is just like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:47 PM on August 22, 2016 [35 favorites]


It's a low-hanging fruit thing, soren_lorensen. I think there was maybe one day last week? when Trump didn't tweet something newly awful, so that must have been the day the AP decided to keep clicking. The depth of the field of horror, though .... infinite. I bet we'll still be hearing new awful things about Trump this time next year.
posted by Dashy at 12:51 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


BOW TIE FLOW CHART 2016

/-------------------------------\
|Are you in the Nation of Islam?|---YES---> YOU MAY WEAR A BOWTIE
\-------------------------------/
  |
  NO
  |
/------------------\
|Are you dapper af?|--------YES------------> YOU MAY WEAR A BOWTIE
\------------------/
  |
  NO
  |
  \-----------------------> YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T WEAR A BOWTIE

posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:56 PM on August 22, 2016 [53 favorites]


This campaign has been like no other, and it's been GREAT in terms of investigative journalism. Go AP!

We're finally discovering what it takes to get the media to give a shit.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:59 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


YCTaB...I don't see ARE YOU A CLOWN anywhere on that flow chart
posted by Existential Dread at 1:00 PM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


/---------------------------------\
|Do you travel in a TARDIS? |--------YES------------> YOU MAY WEAR A BOWTIE, BUT NOT THIS SEASON
\---------------------------------/
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:00 PM on August 22, 2016 [42 favorites]


YCTaB...I don't see ARE YOU A CLOWN anywhere on that flow chart
posted by Existential Dread at 1:00 PM on August 22 [+] [!]


is it eponysterical when someone named Existential Dread suggests adding clowns?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:01 PM on August 22, 2016 [19 favorites]


everything i do is eponysterical
posted by Existential Dread at 1:02 PM on August 22, 2016 [73 favorites]




BOW TIE FLOW CHART 2016

ADDENDUM:

┌─────────────────────────┐
│ Are you Tucker Carlson? │ -- YES --┐
└─────────────────────────┘          │
           │                         |
           NO ---------- You definitely shouldn't wear a bowtie.

posted by Talez at 1:06 PM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


┌─────────────────────────┐
│ Do you really GAF/Need  |
│ help to get dressed?    │ -- YES --┐
└─────────────────────────┘          │
           │                         |
           NO ---------- Wear whatever you want.

Can we end this derail now, please?
posted by wenestvedt at 1:10 PM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


Bow ties are cool.
posted by stolyarova at 15:09 on August 22


My work is such that I wear ties pretty much every day. A couple years ago I instituted a personal rule - Bow Tie Wednesday. It gives me a chance to show off the fact that I know how to tie a bow tie (I learned from this cute video), but more importantly, I almost never anymore have one of those "what day is it?" moments. Because now the answer to that question is always either on or one day away from a weekend, or on or one day away from Bow Tie Wednesday.

Bow Tie Wednesday, people. Make it happen.

sorry wenestvedt
posted by solotoro at 1:11 PM on August 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


┌─────────────────────────┐
│ "But bowties are coo—"  │            
└─────────────────────────┘
              | 
You *definitely* shouldn't wear that bowtie. And take off the hat.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:12 PM on August 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


┌─────────────────────────┐
│ Can we end this         |
│ derail now, please?     │ -- YES --┐
└─────────────────────────┘          │
           │                         |
           NO ---------- But you're still no fun.

posted by leotrotsky at 1:14 PM on August 22, 2016 [22 favorites]


If you look at my MeFi profile page, you'll see me in a bowtie.

I haven't worn one since. They are a pain in the ass to tie correctly.
posted by dw at 1:15 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


"It's ludicrous and no one is pointing it out. It's egregiously long. My guess is that he buys Italian ties (which often are longer because Italians like to tie up a big knot) but then he ties a regular knot — probably a half Windsor."

"Do you think maybe he's compensating for something?"

However one chooses to knot them, the back part of the tie must be the same length as the front, and one must stuff said back part through the loop on the back of the front part. I will not be dissuaded from this.

Some of us can't even do this with specially-made "extra long" ties. Too tall.
posted by zarq at 1:17 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I haven't worn one since. They are a pain in the ass to tie correctly.

You tie them just like a shoelace.


posted by leotrotsky at 1:19 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]




┌─────────────────────────┐
│ Are you Tucker Carlson?               │ -- YES ----> I AM SO SORRY.
└─────────────────────────┘
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:22 PM on August 22, 2016 [16 favorites]


Just because Tucker Carlson wears a bowtie does not mean he should wear a bowtie.

Tucker Carlson should not wear a bowtie.
posted by chrchr at 1:24 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]



Certain Trump Campaign Staffers Love Sharing Racist, Violent Memes.


FTA: "This is what "extreme vetting" gets you, I guess."

Oh somebody needs to run with that. Dude, extreme vetting? Donald, you can't even keep racist people out of your campaign. I know his surrogates can say anything, and they'd pull some nonsense-speak out of their asses, but I'd still love to see that put to them. "Donald Trump's 'extreme vetting' talk is nonsense since he couldn't keep racists out of his own campaign. Shitty Trump Surrogate - your thoughts?"

(I mean of course Trump is racist and ridiculous himself, but on national television they're still not operating under that reality yet).
posted by cashman at 1:26 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Tucker Carlson should not wear a bowtie.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:27 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Someone above mentioned looking for Jefferson '00 campaign materials. I was tempted to whip a bumper sticker up, so I looked for source material. Ran across this: "REPUBLICANS / turn out, turn out and Save Your Country from Ruin!"

By itself, that would be a great sticker. Any Republican would think it was speaking directly them and reflects exactly what they're thinking, #nevertrump or not.
posted by honestcoyote at 1:28 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]




One of the things I'm proud of, although it's through no effort or merit of my own, is that I know the main author/coordinator of the paper "More Ties than We Thought" (warning: PDF, lotsamaths), and in fact hosted him when he came to present it at a mathematics conference in Baltimore.

Certain candidates (and everyone else) could generate and adapt random ways to tie a tie knot from among the more-than-200000 possibilities using this webpage coded by the author, but said certain candidates would probably not want to since the author in question is from evil socialist Sweden.
posted by seyirci at 1:28 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Certain Trump Campaign Staffers Love Sharing Racist, Violent Memes.

For example, this guy.
posted by dersins at 1:29 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


I found Lyndon Johnson in a bowtie but he was still a senator.
posted by bukvich at 1:32 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


For example, this guy.

Yep I'm—amused isn't the right word, maybe...—flabbergasted that Trump's team is being raked over the coals for their shitty, racist Social Media Presence when Trump himself is the shittiest racistiest Twitterer of them all. Cheers to AP for really digging deep on a subject that was bad enough to be devastatingly newsworthy right on the surface of the matter.
posted by carsonb at 1:34 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Tucker Carlson has to be Tucker Carlson so I'm not going to begrudge him his bowtie if it's helping the pain.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:35 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]




You tie them just like a shoelace.

I ain't Maverick.
posted by dw at 1:39 PM on August 22, 2016


Vote for Hillary Clinton. She can be counted on to select the finest, most undetectable methods of murder. She has all the best hit operatives on speed dial. She sends 5,000 emails a day and deletes 6,000. She bends entire governments and media outlets to her fickle will through the power of her complete mental and physical incapacitation.
posted by zennie at 1:39 PM on August 22, 2016 [41 favorites]


GOP Subpoenas Firms That Ran Clinton's Private Email Server

Like, I am so sick of this "Clinton's email" shit, I'm wondering if there are ways to fight back. Like, could some person/persons/org wage an effort to FOIA every email ever sent or received by every Republican Congressman?
posted by dnash at 1:40 PM on August 22, 2016 [36 favorites]


It's just one guy on Twitter. But it's a good example of the kind of election day (and early election) harassment and voter intimidation Trump is already stirring up with his repeated false claims about 'voter fraud' and a rigged election.

Jesus take the motherfucking wheel. That dude's grandkids must be so proud of him.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:40 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Re: Coworkers reacting to political bumper stickers

In 08 I had an Obama sticker on my car. For the most part my workplace was politically quiet, full of truly religious Christian, but also majority POC. But there was a white woman who visited the office once a week who regularly gave me shit about my sticker. It was in a friendly, joking way, cause she thought she was really funny.

So one week I show up and she says "So did you notice anything about your car? Like, last week, after I was here?" And I see all the nearby coworkers are looking at me like they're in on the joke. I'm clueless. "Umm, no?" "You didn't notice AT ALL?" "Umm, no?" So they walk me out to my car to look at the back, where there is just my normal Obama bumper sticker and nothing weird.

She looks crestfallen. "Oh." Turns out she'd gone and stuck McCain bumper stickers on the cars of the two people with Obama stickers. But the one on my car had apparently fallen off without me ever seeing it.

So the moral of the story is that Republicans make shitty bumper stickers and also do asshole things like stick opposition stickers on other people's cars. (And the entire office agreed it was a dick move after she left.) (Actually I think my car's protective layer of dirt acted in my favor.)
posted by threeturtles at 1:42 PM on August 22, 2016 [39 favorites]


Delgado, the Florida organizer, circulated a theory that the company Edible Arrangements LLC is funneling money to Hamas, a claim that the Anti-Defamation League, a U.S. Jewish organization, has repeatedly dismissed as false.

This tidbit from the AP story at least made me smile. I had never heard this, but I know it's hard to understand why Edible Arrangements is ubiquitous. Still, "because it is a terrorist front" is not an explanation I would reach for.
posted by Countess Elena at 1:44 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Every time I visit the U.S. I'm struck by the extent to which Americans communicate with each other - and not just about politics - via bumper sticker.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:45 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Final word on bow ties: George Will
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:53 PM on August 22, 2016


George Will is no more a strong argument in favor of the bow tie than is Tucker Carlson.
posted by dersins at 1:56 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Fun story about bumper stickers:

Went to a small private school in the south full of "civilized" people.
One guy put one of those little darwin fishes on the bumper of his car.
It got ripped off and then smashed into pieces.
So a few weeks later the dude comes back to school with a giant decal covering his entire back window.
So that time they smashed his window.
Yaaaaay people suck.
posted by phunniemee at 1:59 PM on August 22, 2016 [16 favorites]


The secret to rocking a bowtie is to wear it with a fur coat.
posted by vverse23 at 1:59 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


My wife and I went to see Nick Offerman and Megan Mullally last night in Pittsburgh. Early on in the show, they did a song about Trump. Not a highlight of the night comedy-wise by any means, it was ostensibly from the dystopian future where Trump becomes President, filled mostly low-hanging fruit about the wall, his small hands, etc.

Anyway, political material can always be a bit dicey in terms of the crowd reaction, and though I wouldn't expect a large contingent of Trump supporters for this kind of show, it occurred to me about halfway through the bit that a lot of people carry handguns in Western PA, and that there weren't any metal detectors on the way in.

The left-brained science-y part of me immediately stepped in and said "dude, don't be ridiculous, the chances of anything like that happening right here, right now are infinitesimal..." but I was still annoyed that my enjoyment of the show had to be ruined by the chance, however small, that one of Trump's unhinged supporters could be in the audience and take a comedy bit the wrong way.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:03 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Donald Trump says he will not make his taxes public but he may sport a bow tie after Labor Day
posted by Postroad at 2:04 PM on August 22, 2016


Jeffrey Tucker is my favorite political bow tie wearer. He even once wore one while swimming.
posted by stolyarova at 2:04 PM on August 22, 2016


I'm forever confusing Nick Offerman with the character he plays on Parks and Rec and expecting him to be a Trump supporter.
posted by peacheater at 2:05 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Ron Swanson would never support Donald Trump. Never. Trump is a statist in every sense of the term.
posted by stolyarova at 2:06 PM on August 22, 2016 [35 favorites]




Ron Swanson has written in the same candidate every election since maturity: "No one."
posted by schadenfrau at 2:27 PM on August 22, 2016 [27 favorites]


In Nevada, Ron Swanson would actually be able to cast his vote for None Of These Candidates, which I'm sure he'd enjoy.
posted by stolyarova at 2:31 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


What's going on here?

Poor health.
posted by Artw at 2:31 PM on August 22, 2016 [26 favorites]


For a few blessed moments until an explanation arrives, I'm just going to go ahead and assume he's planning to take John Oliver's advice to drop out.
posted by kelborel at 2:32 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Venue wanted to be paid upfront?
posted by cmfletcher at 2:33 PM on August 22, 2016 [49 favorites]


If Trump drops out too soon and the Republican Party is able to replace him on the ballot with someone who can actually defeat Hillary Clinton, I'm blaming John Oliver, that dirty foreigner.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:36 PM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


What's going on here?

#WheresDonald? Sleeping!!!!!
posted by dersins at 2:37 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Ron Swanson always votes for None of Your Goddamned Business.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:37 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


John Oliver is actually an American citizen. He's one of you, now.
posted by My Dad at 2:40 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


In a final effort to stop their candidate from tweeting once and for all until election night campaign management has chose to encase Donald Trump in carbonite. All live appearences of the candidate have been canceled until further notice.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 2:41 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


John Oliver is actually an American citizen. He's one of you, now.

No true American has spider fingers.
posted by sparklemotion at 2:42 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


John Oliver is actually an American citizen. He's one of you, now.

Are you sure? The Internet disagrees, says he is British citizen with American permanent residency.
posted by thefoxgod at 2:43 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]




Apparently he's cancelled Portland's rally, too. Giving up on states he isn't sure of winning?
posted by stolyarova at 2:45 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


John Oliver is actually an American citizen. He's one of you, now...

Are you sure? The Internet disagrees, says he is British citizen with American permanent residency.


Also has he been extreme vetted?
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:45 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Are you sure? The Internet disagrees, says he is British citizen with American permanent residency.

Either way, he got in before "extreme vetting" was put in place.
posted by infinitywaltz at 2:46 PM on August 22, 2016


"Kids: there's three ways to do things; the right way, the wrong way and the Donald Trump way!"

"Isn't that the wrong way?"

"Yeah, but fuck you."
posted by tonycpsu at 2:46 PM on August 22, 2016 [35 favorites]


Damn it, Atom Eyes!
posted by infinitywaltz at 2:47 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


If Trump has a health problem serious enough to drop him out, he has to be very ill indeed. The man is a Captain Ahab, without the broad education and sound philosophical grounding, and it would take a hospital bed to hold him back. I sincerely hope that is not the case. I don't want the GOP to get another chance to act like they're respectable enough for this election.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:47 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


(Within the last year he has said he was US PR, British citizen, so unless it changed very recently...)

"In October, Oliver was a guest on Stephen Colbert's Late Show. When Colbert asked him about voting, Oliver replied that he's unable to vote because of his lack of U.S. citizenship. (In case you missed it, Oliver is British.)"

I mean, I'd be happy to count him as an American either way if he wants.

Either way, he got in before "extreme vetting" was put in place.

Yes, I suspect he might not pass Trump's "test" for some reason...
posted by thefoxgod at 2:47 PM on August 22, 2016


Act 1: Trump donates $100,000 to Louisiana flood victims-- a church helping with flood relief-- how nice!
Act 2: Nope, actually donated $100,000 to the church of Pastor Tony Perkins, head of the Family Research Council, an anti-gay group listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center
Act 3: Nope, actually, the pastor says he was promised the money but Trump, per usual, has not yet paid


That's like seeing a car stalled on a railroad crossing get hit by an oncoming train — upsetting, yet entirely predictable.
posted by arcolz at 2:49 PM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


Damn it, Atom Eyes!

I feel your pain, infinitywaltz.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:51 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


John Oliver is actually an American citizen. He's one of you, now...

This is what I thought too, but I can't find a source for it now. He's got a green card and has been married to a US Citizen for more than 3 years so unless he's been spending too much time in England to qualify as a resident of NY he meets the general requirements for naturalization of spouses of US citizens. Except the good moral character part (*natch*).
posted by dis_integration at 2:52 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I've been in Reno for six weeks, did I miss anything?
posted by guiseroom at 2:54 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


He is a fan of Liverpool.
posted by cmfletcher at 2:54 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I was quite heartened to read that Tony " Hurricane Joaquin was a sign that God was angry about the legalization of gay marriage and abortion" Perkins had to flee his home in a canoe.

Looks like Trump had a fundraiser scheduled right after his now-canceled Las Vegas rally
. It will be interesting to find out if he is still going to the fundraisers but canceling the rallies.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:01 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


If I recall correctly, HRC will be having a rally in Reno very soon, guiseroom, so you'll be missing that! I'm thinking of going but not sure if my schedule will work around it. We'll see.
posted by stolyarova at 3:06 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Apparently he's cancelled Portland's rally, too.

Oh, please don't resign Mr Trump! Not until all the ballots are finalised.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:11 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Trump’s red-state tour:
With fewer than 80 days to go and lagging in the polls, the Republican nominee will host a rally Tuesday in Austin, Texas, and another on Wednesday in Jackson, Mississippi. Both cities sit inside strongly Republican states that are safe and uncompetitive.
...
“If you’re campaigning in Texas in the August before an election and are worried about losing Texas, you’re toast anyway,” said Brendan Steinhauser, an Austin-based conservative operative who expects Trump to win the state.
Trump's Austin rally is closest-to-election Texas foray by a presidential contender in two decades:
Donald Trump is staging two public campaign events in Austin on Tuesday, making his foray into Texas the closest to the general election by any major-party presidential nominee in two decades.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:12 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I very much doubt he's going to resign.

Donald Trump is staging two public campaign events in Austin on Tuesday.

He's just going to have a rally in a deep blue part of a deep red state.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:14 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]




There are whispers here in Texas that Hillary has a chance. The Trump signs and hats are few in the portions of Houston I have been in. Could it be, might it be, will there be an upset?
posted by Midnight Skulker at 3:15 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


If a John Oliver monologue can take down Sepp Blatter and Donald Trump, we have found the kwizatz haderach.
posted by cmfletcher at 3:16 PM on August 22, 2016 [24 favorites]


"Drumpf is a killing word."
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:17 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Isaac J. Bailey, at Politico Magazine: “How Trump Exposed America’s White Identity Crisis”

Politico has just been crushing it this whole season.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:18 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Following the Huffington Post's Banner "Just Shut It Down," Donald Trump issued a statement this morning;
“Hillary Clinton is the defender of the corrupt and rigged status quo. The Clintons have spent decades as insiders lining their own pockets and taking care of donors instead of the American people.

“It is now clear that the Clinton Foundation is the most corrupt enterprise in political history.

“What they were doing during Crooked Hillary’s time as Secretary of State was wrong then, and it is wrong now. It must be shut down immediately.”
The weird thing is that the only place I have seen referencing the HuffPo headline are Breitbart and Breitbart feeders and the HuffPo article that I linked to which refers to it very passively about 3/4 down the page:
On Sunday, the conservative website Breitbart News published an article highlighting a banner front page headline on the Huffington Post over the weekend, which referenced the foundation and "Just Shut It Down."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:25 PM on August 22, 2016


Apparently he's cancelled Portland's rally, too. Giving up on states he isn't sure of winning?

He's still fundraising in Seattle next week.
posted by dw at 3:28 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


He's just going to have a rally in a deep blue part of a deep red state.

He wants to be somewhere he can get a rabid, adoring crowd in the rally, but big protests outside. As an authoritarian "law & order" candidate, he needs disorder and violence to spread the fear he needs to win.
posted by chris24 at 3:31 PM on August 22, 2016 [20 favorites]




“He had never really had close friends. ... [In a June interview with the authors, h]e named – he put the names off the record – three men he had had business dealings with two or more decades before, men he had only rarely seen in recent years.” (p. 340-1)

I feel for Donald Trump. But then, I feel for the modern American man.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:33 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Either way, he got in before "extreme vetting" was put in place.

Sigh. We already have extreme vetting. (Perhaps you'd even call it "racial profiling.") Just ask the North African cabdriver I met yesterday who applied for permanent residence on an employment visa (as a web developer!) and waited 12 years for it to be granted, for one. The system is already plenty shat-up.

Source: I work for Immigration Services and take a lot of cabs, so the inevitable "What do you do?" question yields a fair number of anecdotes like this.
posted by psoas at 3:34 PM on August 22, 2016 [24 favorites]




Salon: Roger Stone has reached a new low — somehow: He claims Chelsea Clinton had 4 plastic surgeries to look less like “her daddy” Webb Hubbell

He is promoting the paperback edition of his book "The Clinton's War on Women."


Giuliani is leading chants of "Beat her!" here in Akron in response to chants of "Lock her up!"

There they go again with their plausible deniability. "We meant beat her in the polls, duh!" Except it sounds like they do mean beat her physically. Sickening and horrifying. I wondered if they would go beyond "Lock her up," because you have to be constantly ratcheting up the extremism in order to get the crowds going.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:39 PM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


Donald Trump’s new campaign CEO, Steve Bannon, berated Speaker Paul Ryan on his radio show last spring, repeatedly questioning whether Ryan was “manifestly unfit” to be president and saying the Wisconsin Republican was “rubbing his social-justice Catholicism in my face every second.”
Well I've seen batshit insanity after batshit insanity in this election but da fuck?. I've heard of Ryan being called a lot of things but a social-justice Catholic? Is it 1960? Is Ryan taking his orders from that renowned "liberal" Pope Francis?

Holy fucking shit every time I think I can't even it turns out they can even.
posted by Talez at 3:40 PM on August 22, 2016 [23 favorites]


Is Ryan taking his orders from that renowned "liberal" Pope Francis?

lbr tho, the zombie-eyed granny starver probably considers Il Papa to be a bleeding-heart Marxist traitor to his lord and savior supply-side Jesus
posted by zombieflanders at 3:47 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Some voting happens well before Election Day

Has a handy chart that shows both absentee ballot voting and in-person early voting. You will note that NC is top of the list with absentee ballots going out September 9 to any voter requesting one. You don't have to be absent.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:50 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Frank Lutz held a Trump (ex)voter focus group.

Highlights:

More than half would vote still vote for him if he stopped being batshit insane. Why would they give another chance? He's worse than Hillary right now but she's still pretty bad.

"Gotta get back to the issues"
back to... ok...

"He's too authentic now"

So yeah, this election isn't over by a long shot. I dread him going back to Trump's Greatest Hits on a reunion tour.
posted by Talez at 3:57 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Come to think of it, The Nashville Network and Trump News Network would have some serious overlap in terms of demographics...

In her dotage, Grandmother Biscuit became a fan of listening to the old-timey music of the Statler Brothers on their long-running show. I had realized years earlier that ads were aimed at the intended and expected audience (no ads for feminine hygiene products on ESPN during NFL games, not many ads for Black and Decker on Showtime movies, e.g.) but I was astonished at the number of ads for products for the removal of impacted ear wax on TNN.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:03 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Frank Lutz held a Trump (ex)voter focus group
...
More than half would vote still vote for him if he stopped being batshit insane. Why would they give another chance? He's worse than Hillary right now but she's still pretty bad.


I just don't understand this. These people are baffling. They're trying so hard to find reasons to still sort-of support Trump. If he's done things in the past that have made you decide he's not fit for office, how do you forgive him for those past actions just because he gets on message for a little while? We're not talking about stuff he did in 1980 vs what he's doing today. We're talking about a few weeks ago. If I walk into a job interview without pants on, practicing a bit of self-abuse, you don't decide to hire me because I show up the next day with pants on.
posted by dis_integration at 4:06 PM on August 22, 2016 [39 favorites]


Oh, he's not going to run it [the possible new network]. Ailes and/or Bannon will run it.

I understand Ailes was saddled with a pretty ironclad non-compete clause from Fox, so he has about 3.9 years left before he could officially have a hand in television again.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:07 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


For a moment I got Frank Lutz confused with John Lutz from 30 Rock and expected that focus group to be wildly different.
posted by guiseroom at 4:08 PM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Trump's Mirror:
Hillary ClintonDonald Trump is the defender of the corrupt and rigged status quo. The ClintonsTrumps have spent decades as insiders lining their own pockets and taking care of donorsRussian oligarchs and New Jersey mobsters instead of the American peopletheir investors, employees and customers.

“It is now clear that the Clinton FoundationTrump Organization is the most corrupt enterprise in politicaleconomic history.

“What they were doing during Crooked Hillary’s time as Secretary of StateDishonest Donald's entire adult life was wrong then, and it is wrong now. It must be shut down immediately.”
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:09 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


He's just going to have a rally in a deep blue part of a deep red state.

He wants to be somewhere he can get a rabid, adoring crowd in the rally, but big protests outside. As an authoritarian "law & order" candidate, he needs disorder and violence to spread the fear he needs to win.


True, but I think it's a fair question (as usual) as to whether the vulgar talking yam is cunning and/or smart enough to do that sort of thing intentionally.

Given his general lack of ground game organization, I'm having the increasing suspicion that a lot of these rallies are basically "requests" - the initial idea and set-up work is done independently by local Trump supporters (like, say, 25 suburban-Austinites hopping mad that they live in "libtard" country and want to show those bleeding heart wusses what's what) who then contact the campaign with a venue and choice of dates. Which would, via Trump's Razor, go some way towards explaining why he seems to be holding these rallies in random non-strategic places - the campaign isn't really doing much besides waiting for someone to contact them with half the work already done. It isn't seasoned political operatives deciding where a rally is held, it's your crazy Uncle Bob and ten of his racist buddies who want to piss off their liberal neighbors.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:19 PM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


Josh Marshall has some analysis on the cancelled immigration speech: Did Trumpers Just Hit an Immigration Wall?
Over the last few days Donald Trump met with a new Hispanic advisory group. When group members emerged they seemed to say he was considering reneging on his vaunted promise to deport 3% of the US population (11 million undocumented immigrants). [...]

So what is happening?

Put this down as knowledgable speculation.

What seems clear is that Conway realizes that the deportation plan - and the generally harsh hate campaign against immigrants, legal and undocumented, is untenable politically. [...]

It sounds like what happened is that the campaign thought they had some way to square this un-squarable circle but then realized it simply wouldn't fly. [...]

I suspect strongly that the campaign abruptly canceled this speech because they realized that they haven't come up with a way yet to do the impossible: jettison the core message of his campaign without appearing to do so. So they'll keep trying.
I really don't see how they could back off this inhumane "policy" promise because the whole campaign is truly premised on it. The Republican Party can't just unsay the hateful things that have come out of their top members' mouths.

P.S. "I endorse support the Republican nominee" counts as hateful in my book this year. Looking at you Speaker Ryan.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:20 PM on August 22, 2016 [22 favorites]


This Mother Jones article from 2015 has merit in this election season, especially where Donald Trump has threatened to rewrite the slander and libel laws as they apply to the press.

This was an interesting case in that it was heard in Bonneville County, Idaho, a very conservative county in a highly conservative state. The plaintiff filed suit, deliberately asking for $1 less than the dollar figure which would have put the suit into federal court. That served to keep the case in the state court. Oddly, though, a jury of his peers in this conservative area didn't find that Mother Jones was in error. It was a win for the press against a billionaire who didn't like truthful coverage and could afford to bring suit.

There is hope, then, that journalists will continue to investigate and write about newsworthy people and events, whoever or whatever they might be. One hopes that the journalists work for insured organizations as fighting a lawsuit isn't cheap. Some states have anti-SLAPP laws which can sometimes help recover a defendant's legal costs.
posted by Silverstone at 4:21 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Katy Tur: Trump rally crowds are def smaller but the enthusiasm is as strong as ever. Like boiling down a good sauce, you concentrate the flavor

"Enthusiasm." That's one way of describing the seething volcano of hatred that is a Trump hate fest crowd. But if the crowds get smaller how will he continue to pretend that he will win "in a landslide." He has told us that the polls are no good, you have to go by the "tens of thousands" of people at his rallies.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:24 PM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


I understand Ailes was saddled with a pretty ironclad non-compete clause from Fox

So they set up shop in CA.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:25 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


So the Klan Trump rally today started early. Trying to catch up. Not going to post multiple posts because I'm honestly over giving this human cheeto more than a cursory update of the bullshit he's up to.

He's back to the greatest hits without a teleprompter. Second set is linking Clinton to Russia, pay-for-play. He's trying to mix left-wing populism in with his racism. Crocodile tears over Ericsson selling Iran telecom spy equipment. Calling Clinton a bigot then immediately go to extreme vetting but since they're "tolerant values" it's ok even though his supporters don't agree with them one bit.

And Extreme vetting. Another "what the hell do you have to lose?" rhetorical question for the minorities. Getting rid of the crime. You'll be able to walk down the street without getting shot. More "what the hell do you have to lose?". More "inclusive American future".

Education needs competition. We love our teachers that's why I want to scrap tenure which only protects bad teachers but we love our teachers. Broken system is throwing money at Hillary Clinton. Playing reformed powerbroker. Now he's fighting for us™.

Government of the media-donor-political complex has to be replaced with a government of, by and the people. *Huge cheers*. Reject bigotry and hatred, reject oppression. Everyone at the rally behind him is still white. Go out and watch, "you know what I'm talking about" dogwhistle. He wants to be our champion.

So yeah, we're back to Trump being Trump after LOW ENERGY BTFO™ Teleprompter Trump. He's taking the most appealing parts of right-wing and left-wing populism to each side and mashing them together albeit crudely. This is what he needs to bring those lost sheep back to the flock and bring in lost liberals and it's scary. This staking of both sides of populism in a not-completely-hamfisted way. He consistently frames himself as the people's champion at the end of every set of talking points.

It's thoroughly uncomfortable to watch. It makes it more difficult to argue that Trump stands for basically bigotry and hate because the instant retort is "but Trump said he rejects bigotry and hatred".
posted by Talez at 4:27 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Ali Vitali: More Trump: "I'll straighten it out...you can walk down the street w/o getting shot. Now you walk down the street, you get shot."

Who is doing the walking and who is doing the shooting? Because I don't think he is talking about Black pedestrians being shot by the police for no good reason. Yet you don't hear too much about white people strolling along and getting shot by bad guys. Is that happening anywhere? or is that one of those "feels" over "facts"?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:29 PM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


OH! I FOUND FOUR BLACK PEOPLE IN THE POST-RALLY FEED! It's like seeing a fucking unicorn on tape.
posted by Talez at 4:29 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


"When I say watch, you know what I'm talking about."

This is damn near as bad as the Second Amendment remark - no, honestly, I think it's worse. Hardly anyone can get close to Hillary or judicial nominees, but anyone can go to a polling place.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:29 PM on August 22, 2016 [27 favorites]


76 days to unsnarl a chimera of rhetoric. I'm not even sure the best of the best could save Trump. The only thing going for him is the misogynist hate of Hillary. And even that seems to have bottomed out.
posted by dw at 4:32 PM on August 22, 2016


>and they had I think four little toe-headed sons

If you mean notably or excessively light blond hair, the phrase is tow-headed. Otherwise you place an extraordinary image before my mind's eye.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:32 PM on August 22, 2016 [29 favorites]


Sopan Deb: Trump: "You’ve gotta get everybody to go out & watch... when I say watch, you know what I’m talking about, right?"

He is also promising the crowd that he is going to win in a landslide. I, too, would like to know what he means by "you know what I'm talking about."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:32 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I'm not even sure the best of the best could save Trump.

They can't and he knows it. That's why he's calling on the worst of the worst.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:33 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Who is doing the walking and who is doing the shooting?... Is that happening anywhere? or is that one of those "feels" over "facts"?

Walk into any retirement home, and you'll find a frightening number of older voters who sincerely believe walking down the street is tantamount to painting a target on your back. I'll give you a couple of guesses what their daily media diet consists of.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:36 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Isn't it some kind of civil rights violation to just hang out at the polls harassing voters?
posted by thelonius at 4:38 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


We're long since past the point of Godwin so I'm just going to go ahead and ask people to read up on how the Nazis spent election day.
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:41 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Like, the original 1930's Nazis, I mean.
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:42 PM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]




Isn't it some kind of civil rights violation to just hang out at the polls harassing voters?

Depends on the race of the person hanging around intimidating/harassing voters.
posted by dis_integration at 4:42 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


I suspect strongly that the campaign abruptly canceled this speech because they realized that they haven't come up with a way yet to do the impossible: jettison the core message of his campaign without appearing to do so.

All illegal immigrants are required to "self-deport" to the nearest Immigration office, which will have some sort of ginned-up extraterritoriality. There the "good ones" will be able to pass through the "door" in the "The Wall" which is the name for the "extreme vetting" system and get some kind of resident status. A core part of "The Wall" will be background checks run on the Mexican (etc...) gov't databases - which Mexico ALREADY PAID FOR.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 4:43 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Walk into any retirement home, and you'll find a frightening number of older voters who sincerely believe walking down the street is tantamount to painting a target on your back. I

Also: People who live in exurban and rural areas where their local media market is the nearest city. I experienced this when I lived in rural Maryland. People really thought that going into DC meant you were going to get shot, because they turned on the "local" news every night and it was just 30 minutes of all the violent crimes committed in the District that day.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:43 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Amy Robach apologizing for using the phrase "colored people" in 2016.

Because it's apparently the '50s again even the breakfast TV anchors are getting in on the "fun"!
posted by Talez at 4:44 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Certain Trump Campaign Staffers Love Sharing Racist, Violent Memes.

While he has been politically active for decades—originally as a leftist, he said—


You read that last line a lot in descriptions of Right wing nutjobs, and have for decades. This is why I have no time at all for the burn it down Leftists, I know where they're going.
posted by bongo_x at 4:44 PM on August 22, 2016 [24 favorites]


Time: Donald Trump Calls for Special Prosecutor to Investigate Hillary Clinton
Donald Trump called for a special prosecutor to investigate Hillary Clinton, saying the FBI and Department of Justice can’t be trusted to be impartial.

“The amounts involved, the favors done and the significant numbers of times it was done require an expedited investigation by a special prosecutor immediately, immediately, immediately,” Trump said in Akron, Ohio, of the State Department under Clinton, adding the “immediately’s” to his prepared remarks. “After the FBI and Department of Justice whitewash of the Clinton email crimes, they certainly cannot be trusted to quickly or impartially investigate Hillary Clinton’s new crimes, which happen all the time.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:46 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm not convinced that they actually were leftists any more than I'm convinced that Alberto Rivera really was a Catholic or Mike Warnke really was a Satanist.
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:46 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Isn't it some kind of civil rights violation to just hang out at the polls harassing voters?

Sure there are, and most states have laws about it too, the problem is enforcement. Especially when it's the police doing the harassment, and with 70% plus of cops supporting Trump, enforcement is not likely to be strong. When I did poll watching for OFA in Missouri, the cops would drive by every 30 minutes or so spreading the word that they were enforcing child support warrants at the polling place (in overwhelmingly black St. Louis city), that didn't make the news, and as far as I know, no one was ever charged. But over in lily white St. Charles, nothing at all like that.

Depends on the race of the person hanging around intimidating/harassing voters.

Yea, basically this.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:46 PM on August 22, 2016 [23 favorites]


Isn't it some kind of civil rights violation to just hang out at the polls harassing voters?

Depends on how you define "harassing." A dozen big boys in Trump t-shirts just hanging around the entry to the polls and chatting while open-carrying? Probably doesn't meet the standard in many locales.

I won't be surprised if a lot of local authorities are stretched thin on election day, trying to respond to a lot of...active observing.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:48 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Amy Robach apologizing for using the phrase "colored people" in 2016.

TBF, the NAACP does it daily.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:48 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Well we knew this was going to happen: Donald Trump supporters retaliate, launch naked statues of Hillary Clinton

Christ. This will be a note in one of those Naked History books 50 years from now.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:48 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Jesus Christ that is the grossest white bullshit, T.D. Which way did that district go?
posted by Countess Elena at 4:48 PM on August 22, 2016


TBF, the NAACP does it daily.

The NAACP has been around since black people were called colored in every day vernacular. I'll give them a pass.
posted by Talez at 4:50 PM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


WaPo: Kaine accuses Trump of advancing a ‘king of debt’ tax shelter to help himself
Kaine seized on what he called a “king of debt” tax shelter during a pair of appearances here in Nevada, a battleground state, keying off news reports last week about a little-noticed aspect of Trump’s emerging tax plan.

The senator from Virginia accused Trump of “a kind of tax trickery” that, in some cases, would mean taxpayers were subsiding Trump’s real estate investments, which are often financed through borrowing.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:52 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


I'm not convinced that they actually were leftists any more than I'm convinced that Alberto Rivera really was a Catholic or Mike Warnke really was a Satanist.

Yes, but there's a good chance they were very vocally so at some point, until the Left let them down. But I look at them kind of like the one guy at the action group who really wants to take more direct action and is totally not an FBI agent.
posted by bongo_x at 4:52 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Jesus Christ that is the grossest white bullshit, T.D. Which way did that district go?

St Louis City is like the DC of Missouri, it goes for Democrats reliably by 20+ points every time. But Missouri went for McCain by less than 4000 votes, and I'm sure they were mostly interested in suppressing the statewide totals.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:54 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]






There are volunteer groups like Election Protection that help defend voting rights. I'm not sure what can be done about intimidation though.
posted by Surely This at 4:57 PM on August 22, 2016


He is undermining democracy and I'm so mad about it. I'm even more mad about it because he's not even doing it for some Republican agenda or clever evil scheme, he's just doing it for his own monstrous ego.
posted by yasaman at 5:06 PM on August 22, 2016 [44 favorites]


St Louis City is like the DC of Missouri

It's basically Baltimore West. Independent city, port, ground rents, etc.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:08 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]




This is in the UK with strict libel laws but no one in their right minds would initiate a suit like this while involved in a presidential campaign:

Melania Trump is set to sue the Daily Mail.
posted by rdr at 5:13 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


I guess no one ever told Melania about the Streisand Effect...
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 5:15 PM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


Catching up on today's rally (here, if you must).
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:21 PM on August 22, 2016


and with 70% plus of cops supporting Trump,

Please don't cite bullshit faux-statistics. The article you linked even says that 70% is one dude's personal estimate based on his interactions with some Chicago police officers following the cancelled Trump rally:
It should be pointed out that this number is not official polling and was simply based off of one man’s interaction with members of the Chicago law enforcement community.
So no, 70%+ of cops do not support Donald Trump.
posted by LooseFilter at 5:22 PM on August 22, 2016 [28 favorites]


I have decided to assume she was drunk-texting and act like I didn't get them

Me, essentially. Re: Anything my brother ever texts me.
posted by kythuen at 5:26 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


So no, 70%+ of cops do not support Donald Trump.

That is as baseless as the original assertion.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:34 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Fine, it's not a scientific number, I'd love to see a poll of law enforcement, because I'd bet a lot the real number is not far off that.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:37 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I think we all know what loosefilter meant is "there is absolutely no evidence to support the claim that 70% of cops support Donald Trump". Like if I say that ghosts do not exist I'm not actually claiming I can scientifically prove that ghosts don't exist, only that there is no evidence that they do.
posted by Justinian at 5:37 PM on August 22, 2016 [36 favorites]


I don't know UK libel laws (I know they're stricter than US laws, which require falsehood), but I suspect she's going to have a very hard time going after the Daily Mail - all the article says is that multiple other sources (it gives details) claim that her modeling agency provided escorts as well as models. At no point does it say she was one of them.

If she wants to pursue legal action against people who think her modeling career was shady, she really, really needs to provide documentation of her right to work in the US in 1995.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:41 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


From what I understand, there aren't normally polls of law enforcement personnel. However, fwiw, we do have a survey (NB: not a scientific poll) of the armed forces by Military Times from May 2016 that showed a bit more than half supported Trump, a quarter supported Hillary, and a fifth chose "would not vote".
posted by mhum at 5:51 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


"Mrs. Trump has placed several news organizations on notice of her legal claims against them, including Daily Mail among others, for making false and defamatory statements about her supposedly having been an “escort” in the 1990s,"

Good move. I've never even heard that story until now.
posted by bongo_x at 5:55 PM on August 22, 2016 [27 favorites]


And this is the man who now wants to court the black vote? Puh-leese

He's not courting the Black vote. He's making non-Black, right-leaning voters who claim to be uncomfortable with his blatant bigotry feel better about voting for him. Because see, he's reaching out to Black people. A racist wouldn't do that, would they?

I don't know about his ground game or lack thereof but all of a sudden Trump ads started appearing in several Android apps I use fairly regularly. Not sure what to make of it.
posted by fuse theorem at 5:56 PM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


wait lol Melania's attorney is the Thiel-flunky who represented hulk hogan against gawker
posted by edeezy at 5:59 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Northern CA: I work in a super blue college town and recently moved to a much more purplish ag town, and it's Hillary stickers all over the place in both. I'm headed up into the mountains in a couple days, though, and am really curious to see how the distribution changes.

Regrettably, I must amend my previous bumper sticker check-in. At the fancy-ish grocery store near my house, I just saw a little old white man in a pickup with a bumper sticker that said "Life's a Bitch. Don't vote for one." (With Hillary's picture on it, lest you be confused.) Yes, it made me angry. Not angry to the point of vandalism, but certainly to the point of wishing I had a cape and superpowers and could incinerate his pathetic, wizened little shell with a casual glance of my eye lasers.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:00 PM on August 22, 2016 [21 favorites]


I guess no one ever told Melania about the Streisand Effect...

Forget Streisand. She's Becking herself.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:02 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


That article above, about the naked statues of Hillary Clinton, doesn't have any links in it, and the pictures don't look real. I think maybe it's bullshit?
posted by Spathe Cadet at 6:03 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Yeah, it's two paintings and a photoshopped statue. Totes real.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:08 PM on August 22, 2016


That article above, about the naked statues of Hillary Clinton, doesn't have any links in it, and the pictures don't look real. I think maybe it's bullshit?

Looks like they photoshopped the Seattle Trump statue. If there really were a Hillary statue, you know the Stranger would be all over that.
posted by dw at 6:08 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Rachel Maddow on the Trump campaign: "Whatever they're trying to sell us; I don't know how to redeem it for anything of value."

Well, then.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:08 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Also: People who live in exurban and rural areas where their local media market is the nearest city. I experienced this when I lived in rural Maryland. People really thought that going into DC meant you were going to get shot, because they turned on the "local" news every night and it was just 30 minutes of all the violent crimes committed in the District that day.

"We find our viewers are more interested in urban crime creeping into the suburbs. What that means is a victim or victims, preferably well-off and/or white, injured at the hands of the poor, or a minority."
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 6:10 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I could tell the "Hillary Nude Statues" article was fishier than week-old sushi when I read the absurdly false-equivalency subhead: "The two contenders battling for Obama's office have at different times assassinated each other's character in order to garner huge followership and support." Also, the site's TLD is .ng - Nigeria... probably written by a member of the Prince's own staff.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:13 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


As of the rally today, he's still building the wall. And Mexico is still paying for it. And it will go up so fast your head will spin, apparently. Don't worry, he says. Don't worry.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:16 PM on August 22, 2016


I could tell the "Hillary Nude Statues" article was fishier than week-old sushi when I read the absurdly false-equivalency subhead:

I just figured the original reporting was NPR or something.

also i have been in this election too long now please help send the search and rescue teams please thank you help
posted by Spathe Cadet at 6:18 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


>Jennifer Jacobs: Trump this morning on Fox: Clinton has "a fairly good chance of being president." Trump tonight in Ohio: "I think we’re going to win big."

Trump's Mirror in action again . . .
posted by flug at 6:25 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Don’t worry, he says. Don’t worry.

The election, in less than a tweet.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:26 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Dishonest Donnie will never give up on The Great Wall of Trump because, as he explained early on, it will benefit from his "experience in building things", meaning: he's going to the the primary contractor. Cha Ching!!! Even if it goes no farther than a couple miles in Texas, his personal profit will be YUGE, no matter who gets left with the bill.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:27 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Totally unrelated guys, but I'm just watching the (excellent) 2081, a short based on Vonnegut's Harrison Bergeron. The person who plays the handicapper general went on to become a Fox talking head and political commentator. Just blew my mind. Whoever cast that film either recognized her mercenary ruthlessness or created a minor monster.
posted by porpoise at 6:33 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


with 70% plus of cops supporting Trump,

Woah woah, is there some other reference to that because that link says the number was farted out by Ex-NYPD and current "self-styled, right-wing media commentator" John Cardillo. Sooo.

and yes I realise that goes to the dailymail.co.uk. The "70% of cops" is still thin-air crap afaict
posted by petebest at 6:37 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Poor health.

As the (self-)designated Trump schedule-looker-upper, I thought that some of the western dates on the calendar, combining fundraisers with rallies, might test his comfort zone in terms of requiring him to spend the night somewhere not his own property. Last week seemed to be have more on the calendar than previous weeks, and this week is pulling back from that. (Apparently the Tahoe fundraiser is still scheduled for Friday evening, but not the Vegas rally.) Maybe he's just sick of lunch fundraisers.

Also interesting that Pence is scheduled back in Charlotte and Wilmington only a week after Trump was in Charlotte and Fayetteville.
posted by holgate at 6:38 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'd love to see a poll of law enforcement, because I'd bet a lot the real number is not far off that.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:37 PM on 8/22


You're saying that if we were able to find a representative poll of all police employees in the us you think the majority of that mass of people would be voting for trump? I will take that bet for any amount you propose. Memail for terms.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:38 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


(Singing)New threaaaaaaaaaaaaD!!! (Button pops off my shirt) (Windows shatter)
(Wig falls off, revealing horns)
(A kite tumbles out of the sky)
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:41 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Even if it goes no farther than a couple miles in Texas, his personal profit will be YUGE, no matter who gets left with the bill.

Dunno...I think Donnie's been chewing too much of the maca root.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 6:42 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Goodnight Mr and Mrs Overton, wherever you are.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:42 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


You're saying that if we were able to find a representative poll of all police employees in the us you think the majority of that mass of people would be voting for trump?

I'm saying that. Let's find a suitable poll and we'll talk.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:43 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


It's about what I'd guess, TBH. Sorry cops, you do not have not-falling-for-Trump like qualities.
posted by Artw at 6:44 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'm just wondering if, by May of next year, this is all a head-scratching and 'Yeah, wtf was that all about?!' and we're talking about the new SC nominee and the bill floated for including a public option in the ACA and a different one for a new Voting Rights Act.

Don't wake me, people. Let me dream.
posted by eclectist at 6:45 PM on August 22, 2016 [26 favorites]


Just out of curiosity, for comparison's sake, does anyone know how to find out the lowest % chance Romney ever hit at 538?
posted by tzikeh at 6:46 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


We will be in a happy world of complaining how awful Clinton is.
posted by Artw at 6:47 PM on August 22, 2016 [28 favorites]


Tzikeh - the chart here may help?
posted by Artw at 6:49 PM on August 22, 2016


To answer Potomac avenue, and potentially continue the derail on police and voting: newsweek, citing government stats has white sworn officers at 73%, some of whom are women. If they vote like other Americans based solely on race and gender, that might only be .6 × .73 or 40% or so! Maybe less!

(I admit to also finding this counterintuitive. )
posted by gregglind at 6:50 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Just out of curiosity, for comparison's sake, does anyone know how to find out the lowest % chance Romney ever hit at 538?

538 2012.

Apart from the final week when the polls started to really tighten in favor of Obama, it was 12.9% on October 4th.
posted by Talez at 6:51 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


You're saying that if we were able to find a representative poll of all police employees in the us you think the majority of that mass of people would be voting for trump?

Police are 89% white in America. And 87% male. The one group that Trump does well with is white males, leading in most polls by high single digits even with his recent downturn.

This bet is not the slam dunk you think it is.
posted by chris24 at 6:52 PM on August 22, 2016 [20 favorites]


Apart from the final week when the polls started to really tighten in favor of Obama, it was 12.9% on October 4th.

What's that inflection in October? Debate?
posted by ftm at 6:54 PM on August 22, 2016


Plus, you know, high percentage weirdo authoritarian types with chips on their shoulders and a few racial issues.
posted by Artw at 6:55 PM on August 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


What's that inflection in October? Debate?

Prior to October 4th was the fallout from the 47% video. Post-October 4th climb it was Obama's disastrous performance in the first debate.
posted by Talez at 6:56 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Come to think of it, I think there's a pretty good reason why there aren't typically polls of law enforcement. In order to conduct a scientifically sound poll, you'd need to be able to contact a reasonably reliable random sample from the known universe of participants. Unfortunately, I imagine that between zillions of metropolitan, county, and state (and maybe even federal if you want to throw the FBI/DEA/ATF/Secret Service/etc... into the mix) law enforcement agencies, it might be somewhere between difficult and impossible to even accurately specify the known universe of cops. I'd guess that probably the relevant police unions and/or city/county/state governments would have the best information about police rolls, but assembling all of these at the national level would likely be mind-bogglingly expensive, time-consuming, and/or labor-intensive -- even if these organizations were willing to provide this information, which is by no means guaranteed.
posted by mhum at 6:57 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


72% white per the Newsweek link. And that's just racial makeup of the police force, not a political poll (I read it as the latter, the first time through)
posted by petebest at 6:58 PM on August 22, 2016


Thank you! Here's hoping a bad debate can still hurt in our post-truth, post-intellect atmosphere.
posted by ftm at 6:58 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


(Even using chris24's stats, and a 3:1 trump advantage among white males, it's 58% of cops for trump. Assuming 0 trump for women and monorities)
posted by gregglind at 6:58 PM on August 22, 2016


From "Did Trumpers Just Hit an Immigration Wall": Taj MaWall
posted by kirkaracha at 6:59 PM on August 22, 2016


Police are 89% white in America.

My bad, I thought the page I was on was giving summary info, but was a portion of the data. Overall in the study Whites are 73%, so close to the Newsweek number.
posted by chris24 at 7:01 PM on August 22, 2016




(Even using chris24's stats, and a 3:1 trump advantage among white males, it's 58% of cops for trump. Assuming 0 trump for women and monorities)


Now that we're at 8% difference, let's add geography. In what states are most police employees (not just officers) employed?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:02 PM on August 22, 2016


*raises hand excitedly*

The most populous bluelilest ones!
posted by petebest at 7:07 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


As a person who unintentionally helped to start it, can we let go of the hypothetical 'how many police officers are for Trump' derail? My original point, as was clarified, was that something was cited as a statistic in a comment, when it was really just some guy's guess after talking to some people in one town. That is bad faith conversation, especially by the standards of this site.

It's irrelevant that the "statistic" was about cops supporting Trump. What's relevant is that what was asserted as an empirical statement, with a link for attribution, was in fact made up bullshit. That's not cool, and should be called out, so I did.
posted by LooseFilter at 7:11 PM on August 22, 2016 [20 favorites]


LooseFilter, I totally forgive you giving me the chance to solve an Internet debate using my phone calculator!

More stunning to me: Trump might not even win the police vote. Demographics are that far against him!
posted by gregglind at 7:17 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Friday night they'll be dressed to kill
Down at the MeFi Bar 'n' Grill
The drink will flow and the polls will spill
And if the boys want to fight, you better let 'em

posted by petebest at 7:18 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Wow, James Carville is on fire defending the Clinton Foundation and talking about the good work it does on Anderson Cooper. And he's right - the conservatives aided by the media probably will succeed in shutting it down and it really will be a bad thing for the world.
posted by peacheater at 7:25 PM on August 22, 2016 [21 favorites]


Donald Trump Still Supports Mass Deportation for Undocumented Immigrants:
Speaking to Fox News’ Bill O’Reilly, Trump reiterated that he would deport undocumented immigrants en masse if elected president.

“The first thing we are going to do, if and when I win, we are going to get rid of all of the bad ones. We have gang members, we have killers. We have a lot of bad people that have to get out of this country. We are going to get them out,” he said. “They are going to be out of this country so fast your head will spin.”
...
And while he barely mentioned immigration in his speech, he again advocated for an “immigration screening test to keep people out of our country who don’t support our tolerant values.”
No tolerance for people who don't support our tolerant values!
posted by kirkaracha at 7:26 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Ugh - so Trump currently at 25% is way up on Romney. I wish I could drink.
posted by tzikeh at 7:28 PM on August 22, 2016


No tolerance for people who don't support our tolerant values!

Except for people already here who are obviously grandfathered in.
posted by Talez at 7:28 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Anchor Grannies
posted by wabbittwax at 7:31 PM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


No tolerance for people who don't support our tolerant values!

Given that plenty of folks are glad to argue that they don’t have to tolerate other peoples’ intolerance, lambasting Trump for this seems rather in bad faith.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:32 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


One thing I don't get about the Foundation bruhaha and how it's being spun as soooo much worse than anything Trump has ever done is that... it's a charity? The pay-for-play being accused is not pay-Hillary-for-play but rather pay-charity-for-play which, while not awesome if true (though I've said before but a whole fuckload of giving to charity by corporations, wealthy individuals and governments is only partially altruistic and the rest is PR/meeting the right people/hoping to be able to call the favor back in later), is also not enriching the Clintons personally in any way. Every time Trump or his surrogates talk about it, they are talking about it like people are just sliding cash in fat envelopes over to HIllary so she can spend it on hookers and blow and like... no, it's an international NGO? That does real things? I know not to look for logic anywhere in here but it's just another case of "repeat something enough times and people will believe it" and it's starting to feel like the leaving out of the crucial detail that the Clinton Foundaiton is a charity is having the desired memetic effect.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:34 PM on August 22, 2016 [23 favorites]


Ugh - so Trump currently at 25% is way up on Romney. I wish I could drink.

Nope. On August 22 of 2012, Romney stood at 33.3%. Trump is waaaaay down on Romney, and has consistently been so. Indeed, Obama didn’t break 70% odds of victory until August 29. Trump sucks.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:36 PM on August 22, 2016 [24 favorites]


Well it looks like the press have been muckracking like hell because now it looks like they've got Melania dead to rights lying under oath.
posted by Talez at 7:38 PM on August 22, 2016 [19 favorites]


One thing I don't get about the Foundation bruhaha and how it's being spun as soooo much worse than anything Trump has ever done is that... it's a charity?

The unspoke assumption here would be that the Clintons are pulling piles of money out of their foundation. Also, pay-for-play is pay-for-play, regardless of how many additional modifiers one inserts.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:38 PM on August 22, 2016


The Clintons are not pulling piles of money out of there foundation. In fact they contributed a million.
posted by peacheater at 7:40 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Meh... I don't care one bit about Melania. There's enough on Trump and his campaign to take him down ten times over.
posted by mochapickle at 7:41 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Ugh I wish the Melania stuff would stop (not talking about people here, but the press). None of the stuff thats being alleged is an issue in any way other than just nastiness. The closest you could get would be the immigration stuff, but I don't think some "gotcha" on Trump marrying someone who maybe violated immigration laws is going to matter to anyone who would vote for him.

(And lets be honest here, both candidates have issues with spouses lying under oath apparently....)
posted by thefoxgod at 7:41 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


The Clintons are not pulling piles of money out of there foundation. In fact they contributed a million.

Look, that is a fact, and a fact has no place in a conspiracy theory debate. You’d be better off alleging that they pulled out a million dollars to put in another, more secret foundation that did entirely unrelated charitable work.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:42 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


(Alternately, you could assume that the Clinton foundation’s charitable ends are actually evil, as was done with ACORN. It must be bad, because it’s the Clintons.)
posted by Going To Maine at 7:44 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Well, there's no real evidence of pay-for-play anyway, and by using that terminology it elides the fact that the thing theoretically getting paid was not the thing that is theoretically able to give play.

So many Twitter eggs replying to that AC360 clip spouting completely made-up figures like they are facts. I just... really don't know what to do about living in a society where people think they are entitled to their own facts just because they're entitled to their own opinions. Or maybe they're all Russian trolls. I don't even know anymore.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:46 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Ugh I wish the Melania stuff would stop (not talking about people here, but the press).

Jacobin: The media’s coverage of Melania Trump has been rife with stereotypes about Eastern European women
posted by teponaztli at 7:52 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Poor health.

I was thinking about this earlier - Trump's record of projection and bringing up Hillary's heath, his weird doctor's note, the spray tans, his needing to fly off the the Fortress of Trumptitude every night and now a bunch of canceled stuff (though the Josh Marshal thing logically explains the motivations for that). Is he maybe having kidney issues?
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:56 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Has Evan McMullen chosen a Vice Presidential candidate yet? Because Martin O'Malley is probably looking for something to do, and he'd really balance the ticket out.
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:56 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Someone brought that up as a possibility in the last thread, Kid Charlegmagne. I don't think this sort of thing would be the reason.

Several dialysis modalities are portable -- you can tote a dialysis machine with you pretty easily, especially if you have the resources Trump does.
posted by mochapickle at 7:59 PM on August 22, 2016


The only true Vice President for Egg McMuffin is Hash Brown Potatoes.
posted by mmoncur at 8:00 PM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


re the Clinton Foundation: as discussed on past threads, the post-presidency is a weird space, and conservatives are much more comfortable with a gentle retirement (Reagan, for health reasons; both Bushes for different reasons) than with Carter and Clinton using their position as elder statesmen with a lot of international respect to get shit done around the world.

There's clearly an element of transactional politics -- i.e. put your money where your mouth is if you want collective action on a particular issue -- but for fuck's sake, the GOP votes for transactional politicians all the time who have blatantly more nefarious goals.
posted by holgate at 8:02 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Ooh, this is a good find:
Trump nearly quintupled the monthly rent his presidential campaign pays for its headquarters at Trump Tower to $169,758 in July, when he was raising funds from donors, compared with March, when he was self-funding his campaign, according to a Huffington Post review of Federal Election Commission filings.
The obvious rationale would be that a general election campaign HQ is larger than a primary campaign, but the number of staffers has actually decreased. This is even as Trump is telling state GOP branches that they'll be paying for field operations in the general election.
posted by holgate at 8:05 PM on August 22, 2016 [41 favorites]


I just don't understand this. These people are baffling. They're trying so hard to find reasons to still sort-of support Trump. If he's done things in the past that have made you decide he's not fit for office, how do you forgive him for those past actions just because he gets on message for a little while? We're not talking about stuff he did in 1980 vs what he's doing today. We're talking about a few weeks ago. If I walk into a job interview without pants on, practicing a bit of self-abuse, you don't decide to hire me because I show up the next day with pants on.

Astonishing, isn't it?

But I think that one possible explanation is this: Most people don't vote for Trump or Clinton. Rather, they vote for the Republican or the Democratic ticket. And their decision is based not on logic or reason, but on a feeling of which camp you "belong" to. Which in turn depends on your upbringing, socialization, the people you hung out with during your formative years and a number of other factors.

If you look at it that way, it explains why Trump is still posed to get 45% of the vote in spite of his vile, racist incoherent rants. And it explains why it is impossible to convince many people that Hillary Clinton is not a crooked, corrupt, evil mastermind.

The deeper implication is that the debates, the breathless reporting, the background stories, the rallies etc. etc. all matter much less than most people think. All they can do is reinforce underlying convictions. Also, Trump was right on the mark that he could shoot someone on 5th avenue and his poll numbers wouldn't drop significantly. I think this is literally true. But at the same stage of the race, it would also have been true for any other Republican candidate in recent memory, because most people don't vote based on what candidates say or do, but on the group that they represent.

Or take the polls for African Americans: I suspect that most of them identify as African Americans first and Republicans second. The 1 or 2% that still support Trump and that you see on TV sometimes are those where that order is the other way around.

So if you find Trump's support baffling, remember that it's not about Trump vs. Clinton, but about Republicans vs. Democrats (or conservatives vs. progressives).
posted by sour cream at 8:10 PM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


And their decision is based not on logic or reason

and that is exactly why this is all so horrifying; the normalization of hate that we had thought slowly being left behind. Trump has fanned up the flames that should have been doused more thoroughly.
posted by porpoise at 8:19 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


sour cream: Trump was right on the mark that he could shoot someone on 5th avenue and his poll numbers wouldn't drop significantly. I think this is literally true.

I think it would depend on the race of the victim (and, to a lesser degree, class and attractiveness).
posted by tzikeh at 8:21 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


...you can tote a dialysis machine with you pretty easily, especially if you have the resources Trump does.

You mean having Christie carry it around, don't you?
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:25 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Well, he's gotta be good for something.
posted by mochapickle at 8:28 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


He picks stuff up from McDonalds. Egg McMuffins. Fish Delights...
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:32 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


And their decision is based not on logic or reason, but on a feeling of which camp you "belong" to.
While I absolutely agree with this, I find myself wondering how one ends up switching camps. Both of my parents grew up in staunchly economically conservative households packed to the brim with racism, anti-Semitism, and xenophobia. Both of my parents went to college as registered Republicans and emerged as registered Democrats. I'm sure in this case college was the transformative experience.

And yet I have certainly seen Republican and Democratic tribalism at work just as you describe it. The union guy who hates taxes, loves war and gun rights, despises the "welfare state," firmly believes that the illegals are taking his jobs, but always votes Democrat because it's "the party of the working man."

Personally, I tend to vote blue down the ticket. I even vote for Schumer. Because what's my other choice? The red candidates around here are just unacceptable to me on a number of levels, and I'm not averse to holding my nose and voting for the blue guy just because he's blue. I suppose if Keith Olbermann or Michael Moore were my presidential candidate I could see maybe voting for the other guy. It would depend on who it was.
posted by xyzzy at 8:38 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]




But I think that one possible explanation is this: Most people don't vote for Trump or Clinton. Rather, they vote for the Republican or the Democratic ticket. And their decision is based not on logic or reason, but on a feeling of which camp you "belong" to.

Congratulations, you have reinvented _Partisan Hearts and Minds_ by Don Green and Eric Schickler and some other people!

But even if people aren't calmly and rationally deciding their partisanship, there's still a large more-or-less "rational" core underneath it all. I mean, it isn't just some weird historical accident that black voters started breaking for Democrats under FDR and became near-monolithically Democratic after Johnson, or that white evangelicals are overwhelmingly Republican.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:46 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'll go on record: I think it's unseemly to speculate on a potential hidden health issue of a candidate.

Presumably it will come out in the next few months if it's true, verified by people who were actually in a position to do the investigative legwork needed to identify [Secret Disease] hidden by [Particular Nefarious Candidate].

In the meantime, is it really helping the already-tattered political discourse in this country if the sane majority jumps right into the cesspool in which a mercifully fewer than 50% of people are wallowing?
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:48 PM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


Well it looks like the press have been muckracking like hell because now it looks like they've got Melania dead to rights lying under oath.

That rawstory article is bad. It says that because Melania Trump may have lied under oath about having a degree she "is guilty" of perjury. Let's grant for a moment that she lied. That's not perjury. The thing you lie about has to be material for you to be guilty of perjury.

The Melania stuff has me torn. On the one hand, people are right that whether or not Melania lied about having a degree is kind of irrelevant to how good or a bad of a president Donald Trump would be. But on the other hand I have unshakeable certainty that Obama or any other Democrat would have been run through the Republican grinder if his wife was shown to have lied about things like this. We all know they would have.

This is politics and politics ain't beanbag. If they find an issue which can help stop Trump from becoming President which does not involve his minor children I think they should use it. Were Trump to become President and destroy everything I don't think "but at least we ran a lily white and pure campaign!" would be much consolation.
posted by Justinian at 8:49 PM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


(I suppose one objection to that would be that whether we on Metafilter should talk about stuff is a different issue from whether it's a legitimate thing for the Clinton camp, surrogates, or allied superPACs to go after. That is a decent objection.)
posted by Justinian at 8:50 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


FYI: Hillary will be on Jimmy Kimmel (ABC) after this commercial break!
posted by acidic at 8:50 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


> If they find an issue which can help stop Trump from becoming President which does not involve his minor children I think they should use it.

Sure, but this ain't it. Melania? Who cares? Trump called for the assassination of his opponent and barely bothered to wink and nudge about it, and that didn't move the needle one way or the other. (Depressing doesn't even begin to cover it.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:54 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


That rawstory article is bad.

I think it's going to move a total of zero votes.

This is politics and politics ain't beanbag. If they find an issue which can help stop Trump from becoming President which does not involve his minor children I think they should use it. Were Trump to become President and destroy everything I don't think "but at least we ran a lily white and pure campaign!" would be much consolation.

Yeah, at this point Stopping Trump is basically a patriotic duty.

Unfortunately, the fact that Donald Trump's third wife may have falsely represented on her visa application the extent to which she was educated by an institution in

you have already fallen asleep
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:57 PM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


It's ok I don't actually listen to what other people say anyway

/trump voter
posted by Justinian at 9:01 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


ROU_Xenophobe: "Congratulations, you have reinvented _Partisan Hearts and Minds_ by Don Green and Eric Schickler and some other people"

Among these other people are Achen and Bartels who describe in their book Democracy for Realists the idea that voters generally choose their politicians based on the issues (rather than social identities and partisan loyalties) as "the folk-theory of democracy".

Disclaimer: I haven't read their book yet but have been meaning to get around to it eventually.
posted by mhum at 9:02 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I haven't read that yet either and really should. But in this case the other person I couldn't remember was Brad Palmquist.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:04 PM on August 22, 2016


I think maintaining some degree of the high road is why some Republicans are willing to support Hillary / dump Trump. If Clinton went with the Melania stuff it undermines that to some degree. (There is no indication her campaign is going to or will do this, just saying "if").

So while I agree stopping Trump is important, I'm not sure attacking his wife would help that. It might actually hurt it, by generating some sympathy for her/him among Republicans.
posted by thefoxgod at 9:06 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


The Melania degree stuff is stupid. So are the photos. Her immigration status is not, where Trump has made deportation of "illegals" his signature issue. If she was here as an "illegal", that's a pretty damn valid line of attack. Maybe not the MOST effective given the wealth of angles to come at Trump, but it's perfectly valid.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:08 PM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


I agree with that; the only one of the issues that might be worth a damn is the citizenship one. Going nasty with ineffective attacks would be even dumber than refraining from effective ones.
posted by Justinian at 9:09 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Maybe valid, but almost certainly ineffective.

Trump voters don't care about rigid adherence to specific policy proposals. They don't want non-white immigrants in the country, especially "Mexicans". They don't give a damn about Eastern European models coming into the country illegally. At least, thats certainly my impression.
posted by thefoxgod at 9:10 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Her immigration status is not, where Trump has made deportation of "illegals" his signature issue. If she was here as an "illegal", that's a pretty damn valid line of attack.

Immigration from Europe isn't the issue. Only immigration from places where humans are brown.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:16 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


I have learned from Internet Diagnosticians:

Clinton: Parkinson's, seizures, brain damage, personality disorders, use of pillows
Trump: dementia, personality disorders, micropenis, and now kidney disease

Meanwhile Gary Johnson could literally run for office.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 9:21 PM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


But on the other hand I have unshakeable certainty that Obama or any other Democrat would have been run through the Republican grinder if his wife was shown to have lied about things like this. We all know they would have.

Right, and we would be talking about how awful they are for it. This is attacking the candidate by smearing his wife. It's a nasty road to go down, and I always feel weird when liberals and Democrats say they might be OK with really slimy tactics just this once because look at the stakes here. If we can only win the election by playing dirty tricks then we're way worse off than anyone (pollsters, pundits) thinks. We can do better than this, and I'm not going to normalize this kind of nastiness just because it's someone on the other side.
posted by teponaztli at 9:22 PM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


The LA Review of Books on Arlie Russell Hochschild’s "Strangers in Their Own Land: Anger and Mourning on the American Right": What’s the Matter with Cancer Alley? Arlie Russell Hochschild’s Anatomy of Trumpism.
Hochschild does not see [her subjects] as dupes of conservative media and Republican elites. Nor, by comparison to some other recent analysts, does she think their attitudes mostly reflect plausible, if not always evident, economic interests. Hochschild is concerned rather with the force of emotion, which she contends runs deeper than formal political ideology or rational self-interest... [T]he people Hochschild comes to know are reluctant to pity themselves, but they still more stubbornly refuse sympathy to the less fortunate. Hence their one, very strongly expressed, political desire. They do not want government to restrain corporate power, nor expect that it will be able to do so... They seethe with resentment, however, at the thought that liberal politicians extend advantages to people less deserving than themselves, and they yearn to see those advantages stripped away.

This, Hochschild says, is the “deep story” shared by the people she meets. In the quest for the wealth and security promised by the American dream, they believe that some people have been permitted to cut the line in front of them. They take pride in the work that allowed them to rise as far as they have. But now, as they perceive their world slipping away, they resent the unfair assistance that they think liberal government gives to the less deserving — to people who, as one man complains in a particularly transparent moment, “lazed around days and partied at night.” They view those undeserving people not as economic competitors but rather as threats to a fragile sense of “cultural honor.” What matters most to the conservatives she meets, Hochschild suggests, is the embattled feeling of pride they take from the conviction that they themselves do not belong among the weak and needy. Indeed, Hochschild reports that nearly all of her subjects have benefitted in direct ways from “a major government service.” Many of them, she adds, are “ashamed and asked me to dissociate their identity from such an act.”
posted by jokeefe at 9:30 PM on August 22, 2016 [65 favorites]


I think maintaining some degree of the high road is why some Republicans are willing to support Hillary / dump Trump. If Clinton went with the Melania stuff it undermines that to some degree. (There is no indication her campaign is going to or will do this, just saying "if").

People who are ordinarily Republican voters but who are also really not okay with Trumpism, for whatever reason, have three options:
1) Hold nose, vote Trump because Supreme Court / Woman Leader Bad / Dems Bad / Liberals Bad etc.

2) Take a Principled Stance (vote third-party for President or Intentionally Avoid the Polls)

3) Vote for Hillary to make a statement about the acceptable bounds of discourse in 2016.
Some people can be converted from 2) or even 1) to 3). Great. Let's do that whenever possible.

Other people are just not ever going to be able to pull the lever for (D) or (woman), whatever. The best that can be done, from both a leftist and from a partisan Democratic perspective (and, realistically, from a fact-based perspective), is to open up psychological space for them to feel that they are honoring their principles by refusing to vote for either of the major candidates.

I think the Clinton campaign should take this kind of a two-pronged approach to soft voters. Ultimate goal: run up the popular vote ("mandate") for President, retake the Senate, hopefully by more than a bare majority, and gain as much as possible in the House.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:32 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Some people can be converted from 2) or even 1) to 3). Great. Let's do that whenever possible.

I hate to say it, but them intentionally avoiding the polls altogether is even better than them showing up to vote for Clinton but also a bunch of downticket GOP candidates.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:54 PM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


And remember, two non-votes is worth just as much as one flipped vote.

Counseling justified despair among honorable Republicans is a perfectly legitimate electoral strategy.
posted by chortly at 10:01 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


What matters most to the conservatives she meets, Hochschild suggests, is the embattled feeling of pride they take from the conviction that they themselves do not belong among the weak and needy.
Herbert Hoover famously saved millions of Russians from starving to death during the famine of the early 1920's and then turned around and utterly failed to fix the problems in the US after the stock market crash. I have read various hypotheses on how it was possible that Hoover could recognize the need of Russians but failed to see the needs of his own people. One common idea seems to be that Hoover was so convinced of American exceptionalism that it was impossible for him to believe that a true blue, red-blooded American could possibly require or accept government assistance. He did make public comments that being on the dole weakens public morale. I see this attitude in so. many. people. Anecdotally, I've known people who would legitimately qualify for public assistance but refuse to apply for services because they truly believe that it would be a scam and a show of weakness for them to accept help.
posted by xyzzy at 10:03 PM on August 22, 2016 [35 favorites]


I hate to say it, but them intentionally avoiding the polls altogether is even better than them showing up to vote for Clinton but also a bunch of downticket GOP candidates.

Don't even worry about feeling bad.

I stand by what I said a few threads back: conservatives need to accept the fact that liberals get to benefit from their having turned the Republican Party into this disgusting swamp, hashtag sorrynotsorry.

If you didn't want 16 years of Democratic control of the White House, maybe you should have been less ok with racists.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:10 PM on August 22, 2016 [33 favorites]


Hillary Clinton Proves She’s in Good Health on Jimmy Kimmel tonight.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:10 PM on August 22, 2016 [35 favorites]


While I absolutely agree with this, I find myself wondering how one ends up switching camps.

Well I grew up in a Republican household. I remember telling someone in like Kindergarten that I wanted Reagan to win because that was what my parents had said. My mom actually came from a Democratic family of working class Irish immigrants but she adopted my dad's Republicanism once she was married (and abruptly dropped it once he died, which is pretty weird to me.)

But I started identifying as Democrat when I was in middle school. That would have been during the first Clinton election. I think that was 8th grade for me? And we were doing American History so we were required to follow the election closely, and write about the issues, etc. And that was when I decided I was on the side of Clinton, not Bush.

Why? Cause that seemed like the right side to me. It would have been about the dawn of my feminism as well, and that was definitely part of it. Maybe it was that I had feminist, liberal teachers, though they never would have identified themselves out loud as such. I don't remember them indoctrinating us, but I had some awesome women history teachers from 7-10th grades. But yeah, by the time of high school, I was firmly Democrat and liberal and fighting my Republican father in all political discussions.
posted by threeturtles at 10:12 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


....and now kidney disease.

It would have never occurred to me if they didn't have a long history of projecting their faults onto Clinton and weren't suddenly making a big assed deal out of her having gotten a concussion once, and sleeping at night (you know, like humans do) and so on. Even then, I would have dismissed the fly home every night thing as being kind of necrotic, but whatever. But I have a friend who is on a transplant list and is no longer allowed to get more than 3 hours away from the hospital where the surgery will happen if they find a match and I was primed for a shower moment.

No matter what Trump's issues might be, sign those organ donor cards folks!
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 10:15 PM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


Hillary Clinton Proves She’s in Good Health on Jimmy Kimmel tonight.

I don't think I'll be satisfied until we see a photo of shirtless Hillary on a horse, Hillary wrestling a bear, Hillary emerging from an icy river ...
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:23 PM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


Even then, I would have dismissed the fly home every night thing as being kind of necrotic

He's not smart enough to be a lich, but a ghoul of some sort I could see
posted by rifflesby at 10:24 PM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


> Hillary Clinton Proves She’s in Good Health on Jimmy Kimmel tonight.

I have to say I find that pretty endearing.

I'd love to see Trump be able to have an easy joking conversation about this, with Kimmel questioning his health and asking him to prove it. I kind of hope he shows up and Kimmel asks him to do the pickle thing again. Imagine a jar of pickles as the gaffe that sinks Trump.
posted by mrzarquon at 10:29 PM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


You know Brietbart will be shouting tomorrow about how the pickle jar was already loosened or something.
posted by zachlipton at 10:31 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I don't think I'll be satisfied until we see a photo of shirtless Hillary on a horse, Hillary wrestling a bear, Hillary emerging from an icy river ...

I see we have similar dreams.
posted by bongo_x at 10:41 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Melania Trump stands on the podium smiling and cheering on the racist pile of shit she married. A shit pile who has yuge plans to wreck this country with attacks on immigrants and women like Hillary Clinton. A shit pile who is taking advice from extreme misogynists like Roger Ailes. A shit pile who frequently reduces women to a 1-10 scale of their sexual attractiveness. She isnt just some wallflower or innocent bystander. She's an active participant in this hateful campaign of her husbands. She's out there telling us how great he is, vouching for his character with plagiarized speeches and bullshit stories about her past.

If she wants to be exempted from these attacks, then she needs to come out strongly against the attacks commit from the GOP. When her friends are claiming that Hillary cuckolded Bill and that Chelsea is actually another man's kid. Her friends have spent the last 8 years complaining about Michelle Obama's arm thickness. She cheers these critics like her husband on; rooting for them to rule us.

Many women have had their lives destroyed over a couple of intended to be private nude photos that a jilted ex-lover put on the Internet as an act of revenge porn. The destruction of their careers as teachers, even winners of her husband's beauty pageant, came from those conservatives who now demand we elect Trump to make America great again.

So here we have Melania Trump. Wife of moralizing gasbag #1, endorsed by Jerry Falwell Jr and the conservative evangelical leaders. Her history cannot be ignored. It demonstrates the hypocracy of their whole movement. They are willing to fire a perfectly good teacher who is the victim of revenge porn, driver her out of town. They'll call a woman a slut because of her clothes and suggest it was her fault she was rapped because of it.
She's with them. The gold digging, soft core porno actor who also appears to be an illegal immigrant and possibly a prostitute. And not allegedly because that's how she was dressed, but because she was working for people who pimped out girls and there are photos of her acting days.
posted by humanfont at 10:47 PM on August 22, 2016 [20 favorites]


Yeah, but Trump himself is such a banquet of vulnerabilities that the Clinton campaign can afford to high-road the Melania stuff.
posted by um at 10:51 PM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


shirtless Hillary on a horse, Hillary wrestling a bear, Hillary emerging from an icy river ...
I see we have similar dreams.


No dreams of her crushing the life out of cancer-ridden crazed elephant?
posted by wildblueyonder at 11:01 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


If she was here as an "illegal", that's a pretty damn valid line of attack.

There are at best estimate 30,000 Irish citizens of iffy immigration status in NYC and environs. If you were to force my hand, I'd guess that yeah, Melania worked on a tourist visa before she got something with work authorisation, perhaps for cash in hand, perhaps in exchange for a place to stay. As I've said before, that's more of a reflection of how shitty and exploitative the modelling industry is, not her personal conduct. In the broader scheme of things it has no electoral value.

(And in truth, Americans don't give much of a fuck if their meals are cooked and meat slaughtered and produce picked by illegal immigrants as long as that keeps prices down and they have tacit permission to whine about 'marque dos para Español.')

The Clinton campaign isn't going to touch it with a ten-foot pole. Or Slovenian.
posted by holgate at 11:14 PM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


(And in truth, Americans don't give much of a fuck if their meals are cooked and meat slaughtered and produce picked by illegal immigrants as long as that keeps prices down and they have tacit permission to whine about 'marque dos para Español.')

The backbone of the Trump campaign would seem to belie this, or at least suggest that a lot of people would like to do more about immigrants than just grumble about Spanish.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:45 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


The Clinton campaign doesn't need to touch Melania's immigration issue - if ICE gets enough evidence that her documentation didn't match her activities, she could lose citizen status and be deported. There is no statute of limitations for immigration crimes.

Melania seems to be in about the same position as the guy in the linked story - citizen paperwork may have dodged over a few details; married to a US citizen; has a child in the US. She, however, doesn't have the excuse of having been 13 when the initial violation occurred.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:05 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yes, Melania is active in Trump's campaign. But Bill is active in Clinton's campaign, and lot of people here thought we shouldn't hold his actions against her.
posted by ryanrs at 12:18 AM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


But Bill is active in Clinton's campaign, and lot of people here thought we shouldn't hold his actions against her.

I agree, but at the same time Hillary hasn't made 'the sanctity of marriage' the largest issue in her campaign.
posted by PenDevil at 12:20 AM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


I think it undermines Trump more if Clinton, Obama and the left comes to Melania's defense.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:25 AM on August 23, 2016 [20 favorites]


Agreed again, if anything they should be using it to highlight the exploitation of workers (including models) by employers via immigration law abuse.
posted by PenDevil at 12:32 AM on August 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


Jeff Horwitz at The Associated Press: "Racism and talk of religious war: Trump staff's online posts"
posted by Going To Maine at 1:00 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Melania's legal team? Harder Mirell & Abrams LLP (who represented Hulk Hogan in the lawsuit funded by Silicon Valley billionaire Peter Thiel that eventually bankrupted Gawker Media).

Politco also "on notice".

Grauniad: Melania Trump pursues Daily Mail over '100% false' rumors about her past
posted by Mister Bijou at 1:01 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I think it undermines Trump more if Clinton, Obama and the left comes to Melania's defense.

The Dems don't need to do anything, if only because Melania and her and Donald's lawyers will drag themselves down all on their own. That said, it's pretty hilarious horrible to hear talk about the "high road", given what was done to Sanders' wife in order to attack him. Either take the gloves off or don't, but if the stakes are so high, they shouldn't suddenly pretend at being above the fray.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:40 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


If she was here as an "illegal", that's a pretty damn valid line of attack. Maybe not the MOST effective given the wealth of angles to come at Trump, but it's perfectly valid.

Totally ineffective and probably counterproductive.

What's the argument supposed to be here?
"Donald Trump wants illegal aliens deported. His wife is (probably, possibly) an illiegal alien. Therefore, by his own logic, his wife should be deported." Is that it?

What do you expect from such a line of attack?
Do you expect him to go "Why thank you for pointing that out - I now realize that my position was too extrmeme and will correct it accordingly."
Or do you expect his supporters to suddenly see how hypocritical and inconsistent his position is? Because that is nothing new either.

Everyone knows that "Kick out the illegal aliens" is not supposed to be a coherent policy position. It applies to people from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, all of Africa and some Mexicans. It does not apply to models from Eastern Europe.
In fact, it's not even a position that is meant to ever be put to practice. It's merely a device to get people to vote for Trump and he's probably just as serious about this issue as he is about providing flood relief to LA. So in the unlikely event that he becomes president, he'll probably put in about the same effort: a few minutes in which he personally kicks out a few brown people so that he can demonstrate how serious he is about the issue, but nothing more (except lots of talk).

So the only thing that you will accomplish by attacking Melania Trump is to create the impression that you're picking on a defenseless white woman. If you really want to go for that, why not juxtapose that with a picture of the Obama or the Kahn family for added punch?
posted by sour cream at 1:56 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


I think it undermines Trump more if Clinton, Obama and the left comes to Melania's defense.

I'm inclined to agree with this. If our stance is that the Immigration system is hopelessly fucked and racist, and people who should be able to come here and work are barred from doing so for stupid reasons, then supporting Melania coming to the US, working around her Visa situation, etc... could easily be viewed as an example of what people have to do because we're not fixing our immigration system. She's an example of why the system should be changed.
posted by Deoridhe at 2:33 AM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


Melania’s Diary
By Paul Rudnick
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:42 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Ron Swanson of the Pawnee Indiana Parks and Recreation department has in fact taken a strong line on the subject of illegal immigration. Informed that a woman whose legal status in the US depended on her marriage was vulnerable to deportation even years later and even if divorced, he replied "Damn The Man!" (Just watched this episode. It seemed timely.)

Let us all try to be as compassionate and sensitive and open minded as Ron Swanson.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:43 AM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


Kinda sorta caught up with this thread, been too busy to keep track of the last one. Yard signage - I have seen very little, one person a few streets over had a few Hillary signs but they kept being tagged with shit and I think they gave up.

I did see one really weird one. I trapped a groundhog that was digging tunnels under a building in my yard and wreaking all sorts of havoc and took it out near the lake to release it and in one yard in the "boonies" with rusting cars all over the property there was a hand-painted sign that said "Trump 16" and right next to it a much larger hand painted sign that said in all capital letters and bright red paint, "FREE COSBY THE LAST GREAT BLACK ENTERTAINER" and some smaller scribbles about the media. There was a confederate flag in the yard along with a flag I didn't recognize and some flamingos with hats on, could not tell if they were Trump hats or just hats. They were red so they could have been Arkansas Razorback hats, who knows.

I kept setting the trap because I wasn't sure if I had one or more than one groundhog and I caught a big raccoon and since they have damaged my attic before, I decided to take him on a trip too. This time the signs were gone and were replaced with a single sign that said "NO" and nothing else. No more flamingos in the yard, hats or otherwise. Probably just related to vandalism but I'd love to know the story behind that.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 3:49 AM on August 23, 2016 [39 favorites]


No one is attacking Melania Trump over her immigration status. She's reportedly planning to sue the Daily Mail for reporting that the modeling agency she worked for pimped out their models. As I said up thread no one in their right mind launches a suit like that in election season. Nothing good will come out of a "I was not a prostitute" lawsuit. That should be obvious but apparently Ms. Trump doesn't see it that way.
posted by rdr at 4:55 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


If the white wife of a rich white man has no agency and seems totally defenseless, I hate to break it to you about the candidate running against Trump.

Upon reflection, that might be the deal-breaking issue with said candidate for the misogynist party voters.

Jokes aside, I agree that the Clinton campaign should not dig into or bring up Melania's history, but I also don't think they have to.

Die-hard fans of Trump who self-identify as white supremists won't be convinced by evidence of Trump's "immigration policy" really being a "brown people policy" consisting of racism and fantasy and no actual substance (or, anything really). That much hypocrisy would get enough media play that slightly Republicans-leaning voters will find it harder to vote for the guy who's main qualification is taking joy in firing people on The Apprentice.
posted by fragmede at 4:56 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Everyone knows that "Kick out the illegal aliens" is not supposed to be a coherent policy position. It applies to people from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, all of Africa and some Mexicans.

It's the political equivalent of that guy in high school saying "who wants a ride in my new car" and quickly adding "no fatties!"
posted by phunniemee at 5:00 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Melania's legal team? Harder Mirell & Abrams LLP (who represented Hulk Hogan in the lawsuit funded by Silicon Valley billionaire Peter Thiel that eventually bankrupted Gawker Media).

Politco also "on notice".


One can imagine the mental contortions Jeff Zucker (CNN), Les Moonves (CBS), or Fred Ryan (WaPo, formerly Politico, formerly Chief of Staff for Reagan holy sh*t I didn't know that), are going through to weigh the balance of "negative" Trump pieces.
posted by petebest at 5:03 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


The only true Vice President for Egg McMuffin is Hash Brown Potatoes.

I don't know. Apple Pie can deliver that crucial late night snack demographic that McMuffin ignored completely until very recently.
posted by milarepa at 5:04 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


On May 18, the day the fundraising deal was announced, Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach was paid $29,715; Trump National Golf Club in Jupiter, Florida, was paid $35,845; and Trump Restaurants LLC was paid $125,080, according to FEC records. Such large payments were much rarer when Trump was self-funding.

"Trump Rips Off Donors; G-damn You Guys Are Stupid, Steve" seems like a pretty good cudgel if one were selecting from such an assortment.

Racists gonna racist but money is the honey. Or something like that.
posted by petebest at 5:08 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Yes, anybody in the media needs to watch out when Harder Mirell & Abrams get involved, but the Gawker case had a Florida venue, a small jury and a few questionable decisions by the judge that have made a reversal on appeal rather likely. Still, a serious warchest for defending lawsuits is needed, because even if he never gets anywhere near being able to change the libel laws, Dishonest Donald is a litigation addict. Or you could be like me, totally indigent, on a site where "all posts are copyright their original authors" and I can declare conclusively that "Trump Rips Off EVERYBODY Who Has The Bad Judgement to Work With Him".
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:20 AM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


Such delicate sensibilities. A man who calls undocumented immigrants "rapists" as the opening gesture of his campaign may be married to someone who was here as an undocumented yet working immigrant. She gives a flowery plagiarized speech at the RNC. Her supporters hold every single thing Bill Clinton ever did against his wife as HER failure to "stand up" to him. Their platform is not only anti-immigrant but deeply misogynist. These are the fuckers who cheered when Rush Limbaugh called Sandra Fluke a "slut" for using birth control. They adamantly oppose any woman having access to safe and legal abortion even if she's been raped or her life is threatened by pregnancy. Their candidate takes pride in judging women on their appearance in crude and constant ways.

Damn right it matters if Melania was an "illegal." I don't expect Hillary herself to touch it, but it's fair game as far as I'm concerned for anyone else. The point is not to attack Melania. It is to attack her husband's forked tongue.
posted by spitbull at 5:22 AM on August 23, 2016 [18 favorites]




Yes, anybody in the media needs to watch out when Harder Mirell & Abrams get involved, but the Gawker case had a Florida venue, a small jury and a few questionable decisions by the judge that have made a reversal on appeal rather likely.

Apparently Florida also has a law that you have to pay the whole judgement before you can appeal, which seems crazy to me.
posted by drezdn at 5:25 AM on August 23, 2016


NEW NBC/Survey Monkey national tracking poll ==>
Clinton: 50%
Trump: 42%

New Roanoke College poll of Virginia:
Clinton 55
Trump 36

In the four-way:
Clinton 48
Trump 32
posted by guiseroom at 5:25 AM on August 23, 2016 [12 favorites]


Says who?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:29 AM on August 23, 2016 [34 favorites]


Bush Institute founding director endorses Clinton

James Glassman, who is also the founding director of the George W. Bush Institute at the former president’s library in Dallas, told MSNBC Monday evening that Clinton is “by far the superior candidate.”

No suprise there I guess, just fun to look at the geologic fissures in the GOP.
posted by petebest at 5:34 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Millennials 'are forming their first impressions of what it means to be Republican, and what it means for many of them is: Donald Trump. For decades to come, the stench of the 2016 campaign will affect those voters and mold their political leanings. Every poll shows young Americans fleeing from Trump and his party. If history is any guide, most of them are never coming back.' Boston Globe.
posted by kimdog at 5:35 AM on August 23, 2016 [40 favorites]


@aseitzwald: Hillary Clinton will use a speech in Reno Thursday to go after Trump and his ties to the "alt-right," per aide.

grumpycatgood.gif

Prior to Bannon coming on staff, Trump had a shred of plausible deniability--he didn't know the person he retweeted from was a Grand Wizard! He can't help it if neo-nazi's love him! He didn't ask for their support! But now the alt-right call is coming from inside the building and this needs to be hammered on over and over and over until November. Undecideds/low-info voters/moderate R's need to know in no uncertain terms who they would be casting their lot with with a vote for Trump.

This may be the first campaign by, for and of the internet. The alt-right is a creation of the internet, and I think we may actually be seeing the irl corollary to "but people support me in email!"
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:44 AM on August 23, 2016 [16 favorites]


Every time Trump or Jason Miller or one of those other bozos tweets about "Crooked H," it just makes me daydream of visiting some nice, peaceful Dude Ranch / spa out West somewhere with a winding river and friendly horsies.
posted by sallybrown at 5:46 AM on August 23, 2016 [22 favorites]


The alt-right thing is tough because it's somewhat dependent on Internet literacy / knowledge of online culture. There's a lot of people who tune out or get confused when you try to explain "there's this thing that goes on on the Internet" - I tried to explain 4 chan to my parents once and it was just like "WHAAAAAAA--that's not real, that's just an Internet thing" with the same tone people use to talk about aliens.
posted by sallybrown at 5:49 AM on August 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


I think it's better to pitch it as "there's these people out there, and they talk to each other on the internet..."

Even the Olds use Facebook (actually apparently any more it's only the Olds who use Facebook?), they understand having a Crazy Racist Relative who you don't really talk to much irl but who is all over your FB spouting a bunch of nonsense all the time. The alt-right is just all the crazy racist relatives in the entire world who have friended one another and do nothing all day but sit online and post offensive crap to one another and like the offensive crap that all the rest of them post. And oh hey one of them decided to run for president and a bunch of the others are on his staff and they're polling at 40% nationally :-/
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:01 AM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


The alt-right is just all the crazy racist relatives in the entire world who have friended one another and do nothing all day but sit online and post offensive crap to one another and like the offensive crap that all the rest of them post.

Imagine Thanksgiving, but with everyone's racist uncles together in one place. And no pie.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:08 AM on August 23, 2016 [23 favorites]


Despite speaking at the RNC, Peter Thiel has no intention of donating money to or fundraise for Donald Trump:

The billionaire PayPal co-founder, arguably Trump’s most prominent supporter in Silicon Valley, has no plans to fundraise or donate to Trump’s presidential campaign, a spokesperson told the Wall Street Journal. Thiel had previously donated $2 million to a super PAC that funded an early 2016 Republican contender, former Hewlett-Packard chief executive officer Carly Fiorina, but is not known to have given similarly to Trump.
posted by PenDevil at 6:11 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Even the Olds use Facebook (actually apparently any more it's only the Olds who use Facebook?), they understand having a Crazy Racist Relative who you don't really talk to much irl but who is all over your FB spouting a bunch of nonsense all the time.

This is exactly what I used as an example when my parents asked what exactly alt-right is referring to. In their case it's not a relative but a couple of 'friends' and posts from people they've had to ignore. "Mom, you know those posts that freaked you out after France? Alt-right" " Dad you know the crap that X Smith always posts and you have wondered where he's getting it all from? Alt-right".

Dad said "So Fox News type stuff". I said "Think Fox News +++, multiplied by eleventy".
posted by Jalliah at 6:13 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


Imagine Thanksgiving, but with everyone's racist uncle together in one place. And no pie

So, just plain ritual sacrifice, then.
posted by Superplin at 6:14 AM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


C'est la D.C.: Imagine Thanksgiving, but with everyone's racist uncles together in one place. And no pie.

Boy, that juuust might be enough to make some people rethink their opposition to drone strikes.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:14 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


For older folks, I would try some variation of "They're the John Birch Society, but on the internet."
posted by EarBucket at 6:16 AM on August 23, 2016 [23 favorites]


You're saying that if we were able to find a representative poll of all police employees in the us you think the majority of that mass of people would be voting for trump?

The overwhelming response of the police in America, including the 'good' ones, is to defend their colleagues when they openly and obviously murder people. Even when it enrages entire communities and makes their own job much more dangerous.

Nothing could be more Trump.
posted by srboisvert at 6:16 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Hillary Clinton Proves She’s in Good Health on Jimmy Kimmel tonight.

No Pillows!
posted by srboisvert at 6:20 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


The NY Times now has the 15000 Clinton email story as their top headline. Seriously, can this witchhunt please stop? This is getting ridiculous.
posted by peacheater at 6:23 AM on August 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


Meanwhile on NPR this morning, re Louisiana: "Some have criticized the President for not visiting the area sooner." Yes, some have. And some others--namely the Governor of the state--asked him to stay away until now. But they didn't mention that part.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:27 AM on August 23, 2016 [47 favorites]


So in the previous mega election thread 2016, sallybrown linked to the Vogue profile of Huma Abedin, vice chairwoman for Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign for president and her PA.

And, well, yes ok, it's Vogue, so....but still:
She barely has a few moments daily to spend with her son. “It wasn’t so clear in my mind, after my son was born, that I would work with this kind of intensity,” she confesses. “Many working moms feel this way—there is a lot of guilt. . . . I don’t think I could do it if I didn’t have the support system I have, if Anthony wasn’t willing to be, essentially, a full-time dad. I have in-laws who are really supportive. And I’m lucky enough to have a nanny, which I realize is completely a luxury—a lot of people aren’t able to do that. That allows me to travel and do my job.

“But I do feel like I’m constantly juggling,” she goes on, staring into the half a cup of coffee on her desk. “There are days that go by, and I think, I can’t recall the last time I cooked my son a meal. I feel really guilty about that. I’m his mother, and I should be making sure he’s eating well!” She looks a little mournful. “When I do have a day with him, I like to go on a walk—even if I have to be on a conference call,” she says. “I think, to him, it’s normal.” She adds, more quietly, “I’m hoping that in ten years he won’t remember that Mom is at work so much.”
Ugh. Do we ever get to hear male politicos say anything like that? I'm guessing the closest we get is when they're caught with their pants down one way or another, and then forced to resign in disgrace claim they want to spend more time with their family.

Also, why do they need a nanny if unemployable Anthony is "essentially" a full-time dad??

Just in case it's not clear: definitely not harshing on Huma here
posted by moody cow at 6:34 AM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


I just read about 1968 in Nixonland and it put me in a cold sweat.

Tricky Dick would have owned 2016.
posted by whuppy at 6:34 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Meanwhile on NPR this morning

Cut the cord. Podcasts. Abstain til December. They're gone. Let them go.
posted by petebest at 6:38 AM on August 23, 2016 [42 favorites]


Every time I hear about "15,000 emails" or "30,000 emails" I just imagine it looking like the typical situations where I've dealt with that quantity of email, either in my own mailbox or helping a relative or client.

In other words, 29,800 of them are spam...

Shocking news: Hillary Clinton gets thousands of emails PER DAY from mysterious Canadian pharmacies and Nigerian diplomats. WHAT IS SHE HIDING?
posted by mmoncur at 6:39 AM on August 23, 2016 [35 favorites]


I can't really bring myself to be mad at a 12-year-old kid, however much I may be picturing him as a real-life Draco Malfoy.

I think he may actually be! If he's the same one I am thinking of. There was a kid who looked like he was 12 at the RNC hanging out on our side of the hall (which I thiiiink is where CO was). He was wearing a three piece suit, and was chatting with the green-hats while looking at everyone with that junior sneering look you usually only see on film Malfoy. A couple of the delegates were joking bitterly about the Hitler Jugend.
posted by corb at 6:50 AM on August 23, 2016 [61 favorites]


petebest: "Meanwhile on NPR this morning

Cut the cord. Podcasts. Abstain til December. They're gone. Let them go.
"

I've switched to the listener supported music station for my commute, NPR just gets me too upset.
posted by octothorpe at 6:55 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Melania’s Diary
By Paul Rudnick


"“They keep trying to make their father notice them. But he still calls them Thing One and Thing Two.”"

Thanks, I almost got coffee all over my keyboard.
posted by numaner at 6:57 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


You know Brietbart will be shouting tomorrow about how the pickle jar was already loosened or something.

Headline on drudgereport right now: PICKLE STRONG.

Also a story on breitbart, where the first comment (where the real magic happens on right wing sites) is, indeed, the claim that the pickle jar lid was already loosened.
posted by dis_integration at 7:01 AM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


I can't really bring myself to be mad at a 12-year-old kid, however much I may be picturing him as a real-life Draco Malfoy.

Honestly, you have to wonder if someone who is a serious Republican at 12 won't outgrow it pretty hard later on - if he's responsible enough to manage adult volunteers (even with parental support) and smart enough to engage with adults at the convention, he's probably going to be a pretty intelligent and focused young adult, and that makes me think he might well see through Republican claims once he's got some life experience. A lot of Republican ideas appeal to kids, I think, because they sound moral if you don't know how complicated real life actually is.
posted by Frowner at 7:02 AM on August 23, 2016 [21 favorites]


Honestly, you have to wonder if someone who is a serious Republican at 12 won't outgrow it pretty hard later on

I was a hardcore Republican from about 16-19 or so, probably in rebellion, mostly. (I have family who served in Bill Clinton's administration.) I've voted Democrat since my first presidential election in 2000.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:05 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I've switched to the listener supported music station for my commute, NPR just gets me too upset.

I hate the music they play, especially during drive times :(

I do listen to a lot of podcasts, but a lot of them are pretty salty with the language and my kid is usually in the car with me.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:06 AM on August 23, 2016


Honestly, you have to wonder if someone who is a serious Republican at 12 won't outgrow it pretty hard later on...

Viral teen YouTube star renounces conservatism
posted by PenDevil at 7:06 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also, why do they need a nanny if unemployable Anthony is "essentially" a full-time dad?

I'm sure Carlos Danger finds ways to occupy his time. I don't know why people find Wiener amusing. He's a creep.
posted by spitbull at 7:06 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


he's probably going to be a pretty intelligent and focused young adult

He's going to be the next Ted Cruz.

Well at least he won't be the Zodiac Killer.
posted by spitbull at 7:08 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also, why do they need a nanny if unemployable Anthony is "essentially" a full-time dad?

Can we not do this? Not everyone is cut out to be a full-time caregiver. And even those who are may need breaks.
posted by snickerdoodle at 7:12 AM on August 23, 2016 [30 favorites]


pickle jar was already loosened

I am a male with about a foot and a hundred pounds on Clinton, and sometimes I get a jar with the lid jammed on there good and I have to run it under hot water or grab a piece of rubber to get it open. Of course the TV pickle jar was already loosened.

Also, why do they need a nanny if unemployable Anthony is "essentially" a full-time dad?

That's how the wealthy roll.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:12 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


If I was wealthy, it's absolutely how I'd roll.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:15 AM on August 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


He's going to be the next Ted Cruz.

I dunno, there's a certain kind of young conservative for whom I tend to have a soft spot - the ones who are drawn to conservatism because they are essentially well-behaved fusspots who don't fit in very well with teen culture. They're not conservative so much as well-behaved, and once they realize that you don't have to hate immigrants or gays in order to lead a morally upstanding, well-organized life they tend to let go of a lot of it. I myself am a well-behaved fusspot, basically, and I well-remember disapproving intensely of, like, drugs and sex and teenage pregnancy and the demon alcohol and general insolence to authority figures. In a different time and a different family, I could easily have had a Republican phase.
posted by Frowner at 7:16 AM on August 23, 2016 [55 favorites]


Mayor Duke the dog elected for third term in Minnesota town: According to Duke's owner David Rick, the pup was originally elected by accident via write-in votes. Only 12 votes were reportedly cast in that 2014 election.

We have no idea what Duke's policy initiatives are, or if Cormorant has term limits, but we wish the Mayor and his town well

posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:17 AM on August 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


i just had to declare TAB BANKRUPTCY in the browser window with all of the Trump articles in it

understanding exactly how much of and what kind of an asshole is donald trump is a goddamn full-time job
posted by murphy slaw at 7:18 AM on August 23, 2016 [24 favorites]


THE PICKLES WERE LEGIT.
posted by mochapickle at 7:18 AM on August 23, 2016


THE PICKLES WERE LEGIT.

PICKLE JUICE CAN'T MELT STEEL BEAMS!
posted by Talez at 7:19 AM on August 23, 2016 [29 favorites]


I betcha Mayor Duke couldn't have opened those pickles.

But he'd sure be happy if you did and gave him one.
posted by chris24 at 7:21 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


For older folks, I would try some variation of "They're the John Birch Society, but on the internet."

And on top of the Birch-style rage and paranoia, they've added a nice dollop of puerile, middle-school-cafeteria bullying. Let's all gang up on the brown kids, the fat kids, the queer kids, the girls that don't know their place...
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 7:22 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Can we not do this? Not everyone is cut out to be a full-time caregiver. And even those who are may need breaks.

Oh, I totally agree, but how does that actually work out for so many mothers? I mentioned it in the context of a working woman expressing her guilt as a mother with a stay-at-home dad. And wondering how things would be different with the genders reversed.
posted by moody cow at 7:25 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


i think i could mostly explain the alt-right to my dad but i'd probably lose him when i started talking about "rare pepes"
posted by murphy slaw at 7:25 AM on August 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


But he'd sure be happy if you did and gave him one.

Is Mayor Duke actually Mr. Pickles?

posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:26 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


The overwhelming response of the police in America, including the 'good' ones, is to defend their colleagues when they openly and obviously murder people. Even when it enrages entire communities and makes their own job much more dangerous.

Nothing could be more Trump.


That does make sense when you consider his obsession with loyalty. Let me guess what 25-year-old Trump would have thought about Frank Serpico.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 7:28 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


O’Reilly Interrupts Trump’s ‘Tough’ Talk to Remind Him Cops Can’t Just Beat People Up.

I think even O'Reilly is passing on the Kool-Aid at this point.
posted by Talez at 7:28 AM on August 23, 2016 [29 favorites]


"All I know is that I went to this one random policy officer and he said he could stop murders in a week and I totally believed him and didn't ask him how!"
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:32 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


I had to google the jar of pickles thing.

Jimmy Kimmel Has Hillary Clinton Open Jar Of Pickles To Demonstrate Her State Of Health

That is a real headline, for a real thing that actually happened. The link also has video, because if you didn't include one, people (including myself) would think it was satire.

Good lord. It's like the whole country has overdosed on crazy pills.

To open the debates, she'll announce, "Donald Trump? I crap bigger than him." And start doing one-armed pushups on the stage.
posted by zarq at 7:35 AM on August 23, 2016 [28 favorites]


I'm sure Carlos Danger finds ways to occupy his time.

Just a few weeks ago, somebody catfished him. He kept it deniable, but apparently he wanted to meet. I wonder how Huma must think of him in the long term, while she's watching the media make her mentor carry her tomcat husband's sins around her neck.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:37 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Gelatin: NPR: Research Challenges Assumptions On Why Voters Support Trump

In which Tamara Keith interviews Trump supporters and tries really hard not to point out that their racist opinions are racist.


Oh, they're more complicated than that. As seen in the Daily Show clip "Putting Donald Trump Supporters Through an Ideology Test" (also on YouTube) that Talez posted in the prior thread, we see that Donnie's followers also anti-Islamic and sexist. Spoiler: they all failed Donny's own Extreme Vetting.

It's pretty clear what's in those people's hearts: hate and fear. I think the best response is a one on one campaign, which I call "better know your neighbors," where brave representatives of those hated and feared classes sit down and share some tea or coffee with Donnie's dupes. If we can't send people on a tour of other countries, let's bring some diversity to them.

Except I'm saying this as a white, cis dude, so I'm in no position to be offering others as ambassadors for The Others that are so reviled by some.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:39 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Millennials 'are forming their first impressions of what it means to be Republican,

This seems unlikely. At least, I mean, I fucking hope it is. The median age for snake people is what, like, mid-20's? If they're really forming their first impressions of Republicans during their third presidential election cycle as eligible voters, I have no response to that.
posted by dersins at 7:42 AM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


indubitable: As we've established, peddling racism, lies or worse is A-OK with most of the media as long as you don't personally offend them. We should be thankful that Trump is this stupid.

Here's the thing: confronting lies can be hard, and racism doubly so. Calling someone a liar means you're willing to fight for the truth. Calling someone a racist is often seen as a personal attack, because most people will at least say that racism is a bad thing, and racists are bad people, but oh no, they aren't bad people.

Also, it takes time to really address lies, and much more time to discuss the real meaning of someone's racist comments, or more so get to the roots of their racist views. And despite having 24 hours of news to fill, those long conversation aren't worth the air time, because there are other things to be discussing, even when there aren't. So media people gloss over terrible things and move onto the next topic.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:44 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Millennials 'are forming their first impressions of what it means to be Republican

This seems unlikely. At least, I mean, I fucking hope it is. The median age for snake people is what, like, mid-20's? If they're really forming their first impressions of Republicans during their third presidential election cycle as eligible voters, I have no response to that.


As part of the non-stop infantilization of youngish adults, 'snake people' continues to mean everyone from 10 year olds to someone born in 1982.

Basically if you're under 40 now, you are some kind of bizarre cyborg with a permanently attached iMyFacePad, a permanently attached eyeroll, and are in a permanent state of needing to be "explained".
posted by dis_integration at 7:46 AM on August 23, 2016 [39 favorites]


To open the debates, she'll announce, "Donald Trump? I crap bigger than him." And start doing one-armed pushups on the stage.

I was secretly hoping Hillary would start doing burpees on camera. I would be thrilled if one of the debates was replaced with a live burpee competition.

(And I bet Tim Kaine can do at least five burpees.)
posted by Metroid Baby at 7:46 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


New Roanoke College poll of Virginia:
Clinton 55
Trump 36


Niiice. Not your father's Old Dominion.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:47 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


No one is attacking Melania Trump over her immigration status. She's reportedly planning to sue the Daily Mail for reporting that the modeling agency she worked for pimped out their models.

Ah but, see, there's a trap in here. If Melania can produce a work visa from 1995, that would be a clear and easy way to show she was doing legal modelling work in the US.

I believe that's the real goal here, since she won't address the multiple contradictory statements she's made about her emigration path.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:49 AM on August 23, 2016


Oh, they're more complicated than that. As seen in the Daily Show clip "Putting Donald Trump Supporters Through an Ideology Test" (also on YouTube) that Talez posted in the prior thread, we see that Donnie's followers also anti-Islamic and sexist. Spoiler: they all failed Donny's own Extreme Vetting.

My absolute favourite part of that video is when Jordan Klepper sneaks in that "you're too fucking stupid to even see why you're a hypocrite" line.
posted by Talez at 7:51 AM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


Meanwhile, the difference between Democrats and Republicans is once again pretty goddamned stark.

Democrat #1: "Look at Donald Trump's erratic behavior. His mood swings. His inability to remember what positions he's taken in the past. His aggressive late night tweets. His paranoia. His conspiracy theories. Has anyone considered the possibility that he might be mentally ill or have early onset Alzheimer's? After all, his dad had the disease and...."

Democrat #2: "Can we not do this? You're not a mental professional and even if you were it's unethical to diagnose anyone without knowing their medical history. We can attack his positions on the issues and what he actually says, without making baseless personal attacks and perpetuating vicious stereotypes about the mentally ill."
...
Republicans: "Hillary Clinton sneezed at a rally. Let's take out ads in all 50 states proclaiming that she's a weak, sickly ambitious harpy who is physically and mentally unfit to be President."
posted by zarq at 7:53 AM on August 23, 2016 [63 favorites]


"I think even O'Reilly is passing on the Kool-Aid at this point."

That was such a weird exchange - especially O'Reilly letting Trump talk over him so much. I got the impression Bill was getting frustrated by Trump's repeated attempts to tie every offered lifeline around his own neck.
posted by klarck at 7:54 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


The median age for snake people is what, like, mid-20's? If they're really forming their first impressions of Republicans during their third presidential election cycle as eligible voters, I have no response to that.

Yeah no. We grew up as the Republicans blew up the Arab world, graduated into an economy that was cratering and spent our adult lives watching as they spent 8 years pouting like children who got told no more pie for you.

Admittedly I am not a great example of Average Millenial (evidence: I just made an Oldsmobile joke) but all in all my generation has pretty damn good reasons to renounce the GOP and all its works.

tl;dr the kids are all right
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:54 AM on August 23, 2016 [47 favorites]


Calling someone a racist is often seen as a personal attack, because most people will at least say that racism is a bad thing, and racists are bad people, but oh no, they aren't bad people.

As a white person, I can't say much about racism, but I can say this -- the white people who are grown now were badly taught about it, with the best of intentions. We got a unit on the sixties in high school, where the racists were all murderous hayseeds and cross-burners, but then the Civil Rights Act happened and that was all over, and now as long as you're not that kind of person and you never judge anyone on the color of their skin you'll be good. To a white person who hasn't thought or read much on the subject past that, it's easy to imagine that being called racist is the same as being called a Klansman. This is no excuse, only explanation.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:55 AM on August 23, 2016 [45 favorites]


I saw some frat house movies when I was young. Is all American politics really jocks v nerds?

Other things I don't get - does anyone who didn't trust Trump before going to trust him any more now he's trying to attain some quantum superpositional state of being both Angry Anti-Establishment and Inclusive GOP-lockin Trump? In physics, these things collapse when you observe them. (There are probably jokes about spin states and polarization, but nobody needs those right now.) Also, around the time of the conventions, it was held to be political truth that nothing really starts to get into high gear - the campaigning, the numbers hardening, the races becoming less opqaue - until August is over. I know these tihngs don't follow exact calendars, but is that still true?

It seems to me that there's nothing good coming out of the Trump camp at the moment, just stories about financial chicanery, obtuse bluster and a steady stream of nasy political connections. The email thing - god, give me a break on the email thing - can only have legs because they're got nothing else with anything below the waist.

Where are they going to go in the next two and a bit months, while the Dems have many years of Trump being Trump to bring out lump by bleeding lump and are eager to do just that?
posted by Devonian at 7:56 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


AJaffe: LaRouche76/80/84/88/92/96/00/04/08/12/16...

Stuck on the back of Johnny Cash's Cadillac.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:56 AM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]




I'm not sure what Hillary's speech about the alt right is going to accomplish. I doubt all the Milo fans on the chans are going suddenly stop making antisemitic memes with A. Wyatt Mann and say "we were wrong!" Are there Trump fans who are on the edge and this info will push them away? Is the idea to make establishment republicans uncomfortable enough that they go vote for Egg Mcmuffin or Johnson or whoever?
My son hangs out in these places. He catches the rare pepes. This will push him further to Trump.
posted by Biblio at 7:59 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I've been, I think, making ground for a while by trying to explain to people that racism has two separate meanings. "Racist" basically means a specific kind of jerk. "Systemic racism" which is the whole pattern of things that needs unpicking. And that racism can be used to describe both.

I'm not sure whether this is a good way of explaining things - but it seems to make some ground.
posted by Francis at 8:01 AM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


Biblio, is your son of voting age? I'm curious. You don't have to say, of course, I just wonder how much of the online Trump adulation comes from boys who can't actually vote.

I think her speech, if it's good and gets good exposure, will stoke the left-leaning voters that might not yet feel the stakes were high enough (especially with her good poll performance) for them, personally, to go and vote for her. I also think stoking that kind of passion will be very important for voters who may be concerned (and rightfully so) about intimidation at the polls.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:02 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I don't think the campaign has to explain the full depths of depravity that is the alt-right in all its forms. Wouldn't it be easy enough to pull some of the worst headlines from Breitbart (i.e. birth control makes women angry and ugly etc) and just say *this* is the guy running Trump's campaign now? This is who he ran to when things got bad for him. Even just sticking to the public face of the alt-right should be enough without going into chan culture and the like.
posted by misskaz at 8:05 AM on August 23, 2016 [19 favorites]


He catches the rare pepes.

I don't know what this means but am afraid to Google it pls halp
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:06 AM on August 23, 2016 [29 favorites]


the white people who are grown now were badly taught about it, with the best of intentions.

We were also taught that the ultimate goal is to be "color blind." Even well-meaning people have been talking about race badly for decades. Adults now being told by younger folks that being color blind is actually just another way of being racist are experiencing some pretty extreme whiplash. Which is no excuse for not sitting down, shutting up and learning something new (which many Olds here have willingly done), but there's a lot to be unraveled here.

As for this:
I'm not sure what Hillary's speech about the alt right is going to accomplish.

It's going to get the word out and start a conversation aimed at independents, undecideds, and moderate Republicans. Believe it or not, a lot of people have never heard of the alt-right, they assume Brietbart is just another version of Fox News or CNN, they are not aware of the grossly offensive stuff that exists in that pit of scum and villainy, and they don't know that Trump's campaign is now being run by these same people. Hillary is going to tell them: If you vote for Trump, you are voting in favor of this kind of discourse. Choose wisely.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:07 AM on August 23, 2016 [39 favorites]




I don't know what this means but am afraid to Google it pls halp

It's not NSFW or anything, per se. Also it's the twitter profile pic of many a Trump supporter.

My son hangs out in these places. He catches the rare pepes. This will push him further to Trump.

Hey kiddo, how goes the rare pepes?

Mommmmmmmmmmmmmmm!! *storms out of the room*
posted by dis_integration at 8:08 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm not sure what Hillary's speech about the alt right is going to accomplish. I doubt all the Milo fans on the chans are going suddenly stop making antisemitic memes with A. Wyatt Mann and say "we were wrong!" Are there Trump fans who are on the edge and this info will push them away?

Shining a flashlight on the cockroach nest behind the stove doesn't make the roaches, like, rethink their life choices or anything, but it sure can make prospective tenants think twice before moving into the apartment.

To, uh, belabor a metaphor.
posted by dersins at 8:10 AM on August 23, 2016 [61 favorites]


Also, around the time of the conventions, it was held to be political truth that nothing really starts to get into high gear - the campaigning, the numbers hardening, the races becoming less opqaue - until August is over. I know these tihngs don't follow exact calendars, but is that still true?

It seems like there is always a big push for voter registration because a lot of state have deadlines in the fall. I'm also seeing Zephyr Teachout, a progressive running for congress in upstate NY, has been hitting all the county fairs and such so Yay!

I've been planning with friends to really start our volunteering after labor day. I'm impressed that so many mefites have already started! This video has always reminded me of canvassing in PA in the fall.
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:11 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


ok after several minutes of research I have resigned myself to the fact that I do not understand what this is and I probably never will.

Where do I return my snake people membership card?
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:12 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Biblio, is your son of voting age? I'm curious. You don't have to say, of course, I just wonder how much of the online Trump adulation comes from boys who can't actually vote.

He is 21 and voted for Warren and Bernie in the past. But he has Asperger's and often seems younger than he is. He thinking is certainly black and white about a lot of these things. Because of the anonymity of the anon culture it's impossible to know how old the audience is.

I avoid talking about a lot of topics with him because I'm scared to know how far right he has drifted since gamer gate started. I just keep trying to demonstrate my values and ask him gentle questions to get him to challenge his assumptions. Aside from his disability he is a straight, white, cis guy with enormous privilege. I worry about him all the time.
posted by Biblio at 8:12 AM on August 23, 2016 [23 favorites]


She's with them. The gold digging, soft core porno actor who also appears to be an illegal immigrant and possibly a prostitute. And not allegedly because that's how she was dressed, but because she was working for people who pimped out girls and there are photos of her acting days.

I feel kind of weird when people are uncritically saying that she's "gold bricking" and so on. It feels an awful lot like the stereotypes about Eastern European women as gold bricking mail order sex objects. Her politics are horrible, and obviously the Republicans are hypocrites. But... I'm just feeling weird about taking the gloves off to prove that the candidate's wife was once a prostitute because it'll prove something about the party. What's the outcome here, that suddenly everyone's eyes are open and they realize they were wrong, or that another woman is now just seen as a gold bricking slut? This is fighting fire with fire in a way that makes me uncomfortable.
posted by teponaztli at 8:13 AM on August 23, 2016 [22 favorites]


ok after several minutes of research I have resigned myself to the fact that I do not understand what this is and I probably never will.

What's there to understand? You find pepes and catch them. Some of the pepes are rare so you catch them too. If people continually post rare pepes they're no longer rare.
posted by Talez at 8:14 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Most voters have never heard of the alt-right. Bringing them into a national media conversation is dangerous because they are more logical (in a pseudo-rational Bell Curve kind of way) than the Christian Right and giving them more legitimacy will cause real harm, but for moderates of both sides this will sound like freaking crazy town internet freakshow, continuing the narrative that Trump is a huge scary risk.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:16 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


ok after several minutes of research I have resigned myself to the fact that I do not understand what this is and I probably never will.

Memes aren't about understanding they're about joining in and playing the self-referential, meaningless game.
posted by dis_integration at 8:17 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


YM "memeingless." HTH.
posted by dersins at 8:18 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


> First of its kind statement from Trump team on the nominee's schedule. Lot of changes / immigration speech delayed

TPM: Trump Aide On Nixed Immigration Speech: Policy 'Should Not Be Rushed':
"It’s for a very simple reason, that’s been on the schedule for a while, we inherited it,” Conway told Fox News' Megyn Kelly when asked why the speech was cancelled. “Immigration is a very complex issue and to get the solutions right, to come out with your specific plan, should not be rushed. He is taking in the wisdom of many different counselors on this issue."

[...]

When pressed again on the deportation force, Conway said Trump was "talking about mechanisms" before conceding that "even Sen. Jeff Sessions, who is a very close advisor in this issue, has never called for a deportation force."
posted by palindromic at 8:19 AM on August 23, 2016


Memes aren't about understanding they're about joining in and playing the self-referential, meaningless game.

This couldn't be further from the truth. Memes are about understanding. Memes are a shibboleth. Using them incorrectly is an indicator of an outsider, one who is not versed in memes. Memes are libertarianism and anarchy living up to their ideal goal as memes are chaos that take on universal meaning accepted by the meme farmers and meme consumers alike.
posted by Talez at 8:22 AM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


I'm really not overly reading into this but I do think it's funny that in 2000 there was this chorus of BOTH SIDES ARE THE SAME and in 2008 hardcore Obama fans were all BUSH AND CLINTON ARE IDENTICAL DYNASTIES and those were both wrong on their face but now literally every Bush advisor and family member is coming out in support of HRC as if those lefties were correct but only because she's still a moderate Dem and the majority of the Republican party has lost its freakin mind. My column in the Baffler:
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:24 AM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


I'm slowly getting through this thread, so I'm late on the Bow Tie Derail of yesterday, but I just came across these two links: List of bow tie wearers from "World Heritage Encyclopedia" on Project Gutenberg's self-published sub-site, and Bow Ties and Slam Poetry: This Is Libertarianism in 2015 from Bloomberg Politics.
“I’m on that f*** Jim Crow flow,” says Matthew La Corte. “I’m Thoreau meets Van Gogh after doing three lines of blow.”
Whuuu...
posted by filthy light thief at 8:24 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


All I mean is you're not supposed to understand what the meme "means". Pepe doesn't "mean" anything. Pepe is a game you play according to the rules, and has no meaning outside those rules. So I don't think I'm disagreeing.

Wittgenstein, the Meme Investigations.
posted by dis_integration at 8:25 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


goldbricking != golddigging
posted by entropicamericana at 8:26 AM on August 23, 2016 [12 favorites]


Pepe doesn't "mean" anything. Pepe is a game you play according to the rules, and has no meaning outside those rules.

Pepe is a method of expression. So when something makes you feel unhappy you can use FeelsBadMan and then when something makes you feel good you can use FeelsGoodMan. If something pisses you off to the point of rage you use Angry Pepe. If you're feeling good that Australia beat New Zealand in the cricket you could use the rare smug Australian pepe. Rare pepes are for expressing those esoteric things.
posted by Talez at 8:29 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


We're talking about rare pepes, and I still have Eminence Front stuck in my head from the RNC. I don't think I'm going to make it to November, you guys; I'm getting cognitive lag whiplash.
posted by penduluum at 8:32 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Just install No Script and we'll all disappear
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:33 AM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


Meme floss
posted by y2karl at 8:36 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


och, it always comes back to fuckin' Wittgenstein.

I will just go ahead and put this 'rare pepes' thing next to Monopoly and The Price Is Right on the Shelf of Games People Play that I Don't Understand.

seriously my husband has tried to explain The Price Is Right to me numerous times and I just cannot grasp what is happening or why
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:37 AM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


Also, around the time of the conventions, it was held to be political truth that nothing really starts to get into high gear - the campaigning, the numbers hardening, the races becoming less opqaue - until August is over. I know these tihngs don't follow exact calendars, but is that still true?

"From a marketing point of view, you don't introduce new products in August."

Those are the famous words of Bush chief of staff Andrew Card, who was in charge of selling the idea of the Iraq invasion, in September of 2002 explaining why the Bush administration didn't make the case for the second Gulf War during the summer.
posted by JackFlash at 8:37 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


seriously my husband has tried to explain The Price Is Right to me numerous times and I just cannot grasp what is happening or why

It's advertising that also has commercials.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:40 AM on August 23, 2016 [20 favorites]


Looks like Utah is off the table for Clinton. It was always a fantasy pick, though.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:40 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


I suspect the HRC campaign has focus grouped and polled the "alt right" speech topic and content to within an inch of its life and decided it was necessary or promising. They don't fly blind and changing a speech topic on short notice was not done on a lark.

My guess is that the accumulating pile of ginned-up email scandal/health/conspiracy theory craziness of the floundering Trump campaign won't yield to strategies of either ignoring it (a la Kerry and the swift boat bullshit) or answering every single distracting charge with specifics (which only serves to promote the crazy talk in the media). So discrediting the entire CT enterprise as an organized racist conspiracy itself is a third approach.

I also think she needs to give the "Jeremiah Wright" speech of this season about her email and Clinton Foundation stuff. She could both call out the pettiness and hypocrisy and misogyny of it but also cop to a lifetime of playing within a corrupt system and co-opt Donald's "I can fix it because aI know how it works and have used his system for my benefit" bullshit. She can commit to a new level of transparency, a major anti-corruption push if elected, closing down the foundation for the duration of her term, and a renewed effort at cyber security also aimed at improving the privacy and safety of ordinary peoples' digital lives. Take responsibility and turn it into a new mission to fix the problems that right now you are being accused of embodying. It's Karl Rove 101 shit.
posted by spitbull at 8:40 AM on August 23, 2016 [13 favorites]


Erik Loomis: Eliminate Jungle Primaries
One policy many voting reform advocates like are top-two primaries. But they are terrible because they don’t actually give voters choices. What you often see is the situation we now have in Washington, where the top two primary winners for the office of state treasurer are Republicans because two Republicans ran and three Democrats ran and so the vote was more split on that side. That’s hardly an improvement for some pure idea of democracy that so many voting reform advocates turn into a fetish. The Daily Kos Elections people rip this system apart.
[...] We’ve seen this same phenomenon before, but this is the first single-party statewide election ever to take place in Washington. That’s just terrible for democracy. California also uses a top-two primary, and there, polls show that many Republican voters simply plan to sit out this year’s Senate race between Democrats Kamala Harris and Loretta Sanchez. But at least we know that California, a very blue state, would likely have elected a Democrat to succeed retiring Sen. Barbara Boxer anyway. Washington, by contrast, almost certainly would have voted in another Democrat as treasurer, so the situation here is particularly perverse.

Supposed “good-government” reformers naïvely believed that eliminating partisan primaries would somehow crank down partisan gridlock by forcing office-seekers to moderate their views in order to win. Not only has that not happened, but voters have repeatedly been denied the opportunity to vote for the party of their choice thanks to debacles like these. It’s long past time for proponents to acknowledge their mistake and advocate for a return to proper primaries—and proper democracy.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:43 AM on August 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


She's with them. The gold digging, soft core porno actor who also appears to be an illegal immigrant and possibly a prostitute. And not allegedly because that's how she was dressed, but because she was working for people who pimped out girls and there are photos of her acting days.

I find this statement, and the line of thought behind it, wildly sexist, slut-shaming and reprehensible.

I am willing to harbor debate about Melania's immigration status, because it speaks to Trump's policies and his ignorance of the world around him, close and far.

But anything about her sexual -- or even intellectual -- background is just disgusting as a matter of debate.
posted by Dashy at 8:46 AM on August 23, 2016 [30 favorites]


Looks like Utah is off the table for Clinton. It was always a fantasy pick, though.

Utah goes with the Mormon Church. It's a play that's won or lost on top level negotiations.
posted by Francis at 8:51 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


My problem with calling out Trump's hypocrisy on immigration is that at this point any supporter who really cares about his immigration plan and isn't a complete rube wants a double standard for white and non-white immigrants.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:52 AM on August 23, 2016 [15 favorites]


Immigration is a very complex issue and to get the solutions right, to come out with your specific plan, should not be rushed.

Immigration has been Trump's signature issue for over a year. Why doesn't he have a plan yet?
Because everyone knows what his plan is and they're trying to polish the turd.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:55 AM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


> Honestly, you have to wonder if someone who is a serious Republican at 12 won't outgrow it pretty hard later on

I did; I was waving around my copy of Six Crises at that age (not because I knew anything about Nixon's politics but because my parents were Roosevelt Democrats and of course I enjoyed pissing them off), and a few years later I thought of myself as a Rockefeller Republican (yes, there were moderate Republicans in those days), and my senior year in high school I did some serious reading about Vietnam and civil rights and gave a barn-burning radical speech at graduation and went to college and became an anarchist. But having been a Republican, even as a know-nothing teenager, is an advantage because it inoculates me against the us-against-them, Republicans-are-eeevil mentality that is so common in progressive circles, including MeFi.
posted by languagehat at 8:56 AM on August 23, 2016 [19 favorites]


Is the idea to make establishment republicans uncomfortable enough that they go vote for Egg Mcmuffin or Johnson or whoever?

Or for Clinton or just stay home. Any of these work, and making reasonable Republicans feel awful about voting Trump -- including by saying "Voting for Trump is also voting for these asshats" -- should be a pretty good way to do that. Just drive a few more Republican women, a few more respectable country-club members, a few more print-shop owners to vote Not-Trump or just stay home, and it adds up.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:56 AM on August 23, 2016


Lying about your education under oath, allegedly working as an undocumented immigrant, and allegedly being a prostitute are all illegal. One need not make a moral critique to point out that Melania's husband is running on a campaign of "law and order" and "lock her up."
posted by spitbull at 8:57 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Jimmy Kimmel Has Hillary Clinton Open Jar Of Pickles To Demonstrate Her State Of Health

That is a real headline, for a real thing that actually happened. The link also has video, because if you didn't include one, people (including myself) would think it was satire.


It could have been worse (better?).

She could have fucked Matt Damon.
posted by srboisvert at 9:00 AM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


Can we not do this? Not everyone is cut out to be a full-time caregiver. And even those who are may need breaks.

Oh, I totally agree, but how does that actually work out for so many mothers? I mentioned it in the context of a working woman expressing her guilt as a mother with a stay-at-home dad. And wondering how things would be different with the genders reversed.


Here's how it would be different in a home with a similarly successful male breadwinner and a stay-at-home mom who wanted some home help: they'd get a nanny.

Maybe they wouldn't pay the nanny well (though as such things go, the pay for such gigs in an area like mine is in the $15+/h range) and maybe the stay-at-home mom would feel guilty about taking some help. Unsurprising, given that she'd face expressions of outside judgment like what's seen in above comments with people saying things like she doesn't have a job other than that, what does she need help for? But people with money often employ assistance for things they could do themselves.

Why don't we save our derision for actual offenses and not deploy arguments that look totally like the way shitty people judge mothers all the time? Because I don't see how we stop people from doing that shit to women by using it against men and normalizing parent-judging.
posted by phearlez at 9:01 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


I love this politico.com headline: Coulter: If Clinton wins, 'no hope for any Republican ever winning another election.'

Sadly, Coulter has never said a true thing yet.
posted by bearwife at 9:05 AM on August 23, 2016 [30 favorites]


Immigration has been Trump's signature issue for over a year. Why doesn't he have a plan yet?
Because everyone knows what his plan is and they're trying to polish the turd.


It's odd. There are nearly 2,000 words on immigration policy on the Trump campaign website (I took a copy, just in case) which is pretty nearly Space Shuttle engineering drawing levels of detail for him. And lord knows he's not bothered filling in any policy details anywhere.

So yes, what could be happening? (Yes, sir. Sarcasm.)

(HRC has around 400 words on her site, plus about the same again in an attached fact sheet)
posted by Devonian at 9:07 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Kids go through this hyper-legalistic phase which I imagine makes the spoken goals of Conservativism look really attractive. I would have totally voted Reagan at his age, and I've grown up to be the bloodiest of bleeding-heart liberals while never living anywhere other than the Deep South. There's still hope for that young man.
posted by thebrokedown at 9:09 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


My problem with calling out Trump's hypocrisy on immigration is that at this point any supporter who really cares about his immigration plan and isn't a complete rube wants a double standard for white and non-white immigrants.

They're not really the audience for this though. If this has value at all - and I am ambivalent on the matter - it's in getting the conflicted republican voters to just stay home on the power of "Donald Trump thinks rules are for you, not him." The white nationalists aren't going to be bothered by it, and even if they were they'll vote for him since he's given them overt attention they haven't gotten in their recent lifetimes. Other than trying to limit their ability to cause harm they aren't worth attention.

The battle is and will always be for those people in the squishy middle who could be dissuaded from showing up because he's awful, provided they are reminded enough to keep them from holding their nose and voting for him. The evangelicals who want to talk themselves into believing he's actually changed. The social conservatives who want to convince themselves he'll support their issues. No, he can't really ever be trusted is for them.
posted by phearlez at 9:13 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'll, briefly, sort of speak for how I understand some of the Trump supporters look at things. The guys I see who are all in on Trump are essentially seeking some sort of validation or affirmation of their place in the system. Racialism is a good way to describe how they view things as their concern is less about individuals of different races than groups getting an advantage over them even though they've, as they see it, played by the rules as they understand them.

They see themselves increasingly left out of American culture and see double standards employed to keep it that way. They don't understand how to speak anymore in a way that won't have them called out for racism, sexism, or other sorts of bigotry, while at the same time they see people within different minority groups able to say things they can't without being taken to task for it.

These guys, I think, have a feeling they are becoming irrelevant, being left behind as they don't know how to adapt to the changes going on. The thing is, they're right in that, they are being left behind as the culture is no longer a white man's sanctuary.

It's fairly easy for the socially or media adept among us to change with the times, to understand how different contexts can create different rules and expectations, but these guys aren't adept, they aren't able to process complex information easily, It hasn't been a part of their lives and it didn't need to be since the rules as they knew them had their backs, all they had to do was follow the lead of their "teammates" and they'd be fine.

Unfortunately for them, they are living through the era of negotiation. Ironically I suppose, their support for Trump, the "great deal maker" makes them feel like he will be able to put things back where they were, back where they belong. But they don't see that this era isn't one like those of the past, where the white guys are only negotiating to see who might get a seat at their table, that table is gone, this era is one where the negotiations are about how we're going to run things now that those who've been left out for so long are finally getting a chance to have their say. It's a time where we're deciding the rules for a new society and these guys are going to be on the outside looking in. They aren't going away of course, so they'll try to disrupt the discussions by whatever means they can since that's pretty much the only thing open to them they understand.

I feel some sympathy for their plight, but none for their values and behaviors. They will end up on the outside because that's where they belong. I think we, as a society, would do well to focus more on socializing young men who do feel left out of the culture, not to coddle their values, but to prevent this from being a continuing problem and to bring more people into a healthier relationship with the culture. I don't mean this should be a primary focus, lord knows cis white guys have had that long enough, but at the same time it shouldn't be ignored. Young men in confusion and pain benefit none of us and ignored they can grow malignant and become a threat. Many of the older men aren't going to change, we will have to just outlast them, and if need be outfight them. We just need to make sure their influence doesn't continue to grow. We need to show them their time is over and the world is moving on.
posted by gusottertrout at 9:13 AM on August 23, 2016 [69 favorites]


NYTimes: Media as Referee? Not Anymore: “But this is the moment you wake up and you go, O.K., have we done such an effective job that when I say, for example, ‘What Donald Trump said here is demonstrably false and here is the fact-check from The New York Times or The Washington Post’ — we now have an audience that is conditioned to say, ‘Well, you know, that’s the mainstream media, that is the liberal media, I’m not going to take that seriously.’ ”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:13 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


> Honestly, you have to wonder if someone who is a serious Republican at 12 won't outgrow it pretty hard later on

When I was a freshman in high school (so I guess around 14) my civics class held a mock presidential election and I volunteered as a candidate. I'm not sure if I was labeled a democrat or a republican but my platform was basically "Our country is a mess, let's focus on ourselves stop trying to be the police of the world." (oh my god I'm so embarrassed how much this sounds like Trump). I remember thinking my teacher was pressing me pretty hard on it during the debate event but I stubbornly stuck to it.

I won by a pretty big margin.

Nowadays I consider myself solidly left of center (very left on a few issues) because I read things, met people, travelled the world, ie grew up.
posted by like_neon at 9:14 AM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


Melania Trump is, like Trump's adult children, complicit in this horrifying spectacle.

When Julia Ioffe wrote a profile of Trump in GQ, she received loads of antisemitic hate mail. When asked about her so-called fans, Melania Trump place the blame on the victim of harassment (CW: violent antisemitic images):
“I don’t control my fans,” she replied, “but I don’t agree with what they’re doing. I understand what you mean, but there are people out there who maybe went too far. She provoked them."
At the RNC, Melania Trump gave a speech in which she plagiarized Michelle Obama's DNC speech, after which she proclaimed her "respect" for Ms. Obama. To quote the great Jay Smooth:
If you admire Michelle Obama so much, how is it possible for you to have stood by someone who everyday for months and months was calling Barrack Obama out his name [sic], questioning his citizenship, his faith, his love of country, his intelligence, questioning his very humanity, how could you have stood next to that everyday for months and months and then come here and tell us you admire Michelle Obama so much and make any claim to having integrity?
Melania Trump has not been truthful about her academic credentials.
A number of reports, however, have suggested otherwise. Politico reporter Julia Ioffe, who wrote a profile about Melania that was ultimately derided by Melania herself, noted that Mrs. Trump had dropped out after a year. The New Yorker reported the same in May, and The New York Times in July. Both publications found that Melania dropped out of college, despite her claim to have received a degree.
It is unclear whether Melania Trump was doing paid work in the United States in 1995-1996 with the proper authorization. In a campaign where her husband has repeatedly made oppressive immigration enforcement a cornerstone policy, it's absolutely relevant both to show the broken nature of the immigration system and to display the rank, racist hypocrisy of Donald Trump.

As in the case of Ivanka Trump, I refuse to give this adult human a pass on her complicity in this horror show. Ms. Trump has agency, and she appears to a-okay with personally engaging in dishonest behaviour and her husband's racism.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:19 AM on August 23, 2016 [35 favorites]


I Was A Teenage Anarcho-Capitalist (this poster except its Paul Krugman screaming)
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:21 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


> My platform was basically "Our country is a mess, let's focus on ourselves stop trying to be the police of the world." (oh my god I'm so embarrassed how much this sounds like Trump). [...] I won by a pretty big margin.

I think one of the problems countering this platform is its seductive simplicity.

A counterargument has to make the case that the US is not immune from foreign influences, we're all in this together, trade and international relationships matter, the soft power of American cultural capital is a force for good around the world, democracy around the world makes us safer and gives us better trading partners, blah blah blah. All of this is easy to dismiss with a glib America-first "we're a big country oceans apart from the rest of the world, we should look after our own people" argument.

It's wrong, but demonstrating that it is in fact wrong takes many more words than making the argument.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:26 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


No really, Steve Bannon wrote a "rap musical" abou the LA Riots.

Commence Hamilton jokes!
posted by spitbull at 9:32 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


I think one of the problems countering this platform is its seductive simplicity.

Yes! The problems that we have are deep seeded problems in the very heart of our social fabric. They take generations of hard work to fix! To be told that Donald Trump can stop street violence in a week? There's extrajudicial street justice going to be going on for sure.
posted by Talez at 9:33 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]




An ultra-conservative friend of mine in high school told me conservatives have more fun. Specifically, conservatives get better slogans, where liberals' slogans are all wimpy and soft-sounding.

This election is conservative finally having all their fun. No more Mr. Nice Guy, no more playing games with what they believe. We shall see whether the rest of the electorate finds it as fun or intimidating as conservatives hope.
posted by argybarg at 9:39 AM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


Joy Behar interview with Melania Trump, April 20, 2011:
Joy Behar: What is this with the birth certificate obsession? Did he ask to see yours when you met him?

Melania Trump: Well I needed to put mine, anyway, because if you want to become an American citizen, you need to put the birth certificate. I have a birth certificate from Slovenia. And…do you want to see President Obama’s birth certificate or not?

Joy Behar: I’ve seen it, I’ve seen it.

Melania Trump: It’s not a birth certificate.

Joy Behar: Well, it’s a certificate of live birth—

Melania Trump: Right.

Joy Behar: But, Melania, if he insists on what he’s saying, then no one in Hawaii can ever run for president. Because they all get the same live birth certificate.

Melania Trump: Well, but they need to have—

Joy Behar: Bette Midler is finished, for example.

Melania Trump: They need to have, and, in one way, it would be very easy if President Obama just show it and—

Joy Behar: But he does.

Melania Trump: It’s not only, it’s not only Donald who wants to see it, it’s American people who voted for him and who didn’t vote for him. They want to see that.

Joe Behar: It’s on display in Chicago, we’ve seen it on the internet; we’ve seen it. It is not the same as yours but it is a certificate of live birth.

Melania Trump: We feel it’s different than birth certificate.

Joy Behar: Alright, well, I think you should give it up.

Melania Trump: Well, it’s not him that is bringing up; it’s the media all the time, all the time.
So, that happened.
posted by spitbull at 9:40 AM on August 23, 2016 [71 favorites]


It's fairly easy for the socially or media adept among us to change with the times, to understand how different contexts can create different rules and expectations, but these guys aren't adept, they aren't able to process complex information easily, It hasn't been a part of their lives and it didn't need to be since the rules as they knew them had their backs, all they had to do was follow the lead of their "teammates" and they'd be fine.

You're offering them credit they haven't earned, though. The issue isn't their lack of ability to be adept, it's their unwillingness to make an effort at being adept and their resentment at it being asked of them. They're not incapable of excising some words from their vocabulary and learning to shut the hell up when they should. These racist incident eruptions show that they have been shutting their mouths. The problem is that they don't want to.

I don't disagree that we can't just ignore them; people who can be radicalized on issues such that they'll have violent outbursts can't be just shunned away. In many ways they resemble disaffected young men who get enlisted by terrorist operations because they see no paths available to them, allowing them to be seduced into destruction actions. But the solution there and here isn't to coddle their resentment and hand-hold them through their whiny manfeels. It's to provide opportunities for them to take instead. It's up to them to put down the otherhate.

Some of them won't. But that doesn't mean we should pat them on the shoulder and tell them those particular hateful feelings are understandable or even okay. They're not. All personal improvement comes from saying this thing is bad and here's an alternative.
posted by phearlez at 9:42 AM on August 23, 2016 [19 favorites]


Trump Appears to Embrace Obama's Deportation Policy:
During a series of interviews Monday evening, Donald Trump appeared to reverse his mass deportation policy, saying that he will do the "same thing" as President Obama regarding deportation but "perhaps with a lot more energy."
And hold onto your heads:

"They are going to be out of here so fast, your head will spin...
That wall will go up so fast, your head will spin."
posted by kirkaracha at 9:43 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Oh god, the memories are flooding back in.

I am pretty sure during the debates my teacher asked me how I was planning on putting America First if I thought the economy was one of the biggest challenges and I basically responded that if we redirected our "foreign budgets" towards domestic issues we'd have more than enough to tackle healthcare, education, crime, etc...

And I do remember the heady feeling I got with coming up with snap answers and trying to lead my opponent and teacher into "gotcha" moments, it was intoxicating.

Luckily I also discovered boys that year and I lost all interest in looking like an ambitious nerd and became a song girl instead (and was damn good at it, my squad placed second nationally).
posted by like_neon at 9:43 AM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


Basically I'm saying I think Trump is channeling me as a 14 year old girl and my advice to him would be to practice those split jumps to really get an edge at try outs.
posted by like_neon at 9:46 AM on August 23, 2016 [42 favorites]


allegedly working as an undocumented immigrant, and allegedly being a prostitute are all illegal

No they're not. They're only illegal if you actually did those things. Anyone can throw around allegations.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 9:47 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Lol ok I should have put parentheses around my "allegedlys."
posted by spitbull at 9:51 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


allegedly being a prostitute

OMG can we not do this?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:54 AM on August 23, 2016 [31 favorites]


And I do remember the heady feeling I got with coming up with snap answers and trying to lead my opponent and teacher into "gotcha" moments, it was intoxicating.

I'm reminded of my 11th grade government class, wherein I played the right-wing libertarian, my friend Petr (a big red-headed Russian bear of a guy) went full commie and our teacher amusedly bantered with us from a centrist pov.

everyone else in the class was generally sleeping
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:55 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm reminded of my 11th grade government class, wherein I played the right-wing libertarian, my friend Petr (a big red-headed Russian bear of a guy) went full commie and our teacher amusedly bantered with us from a centrist pov.

Wow, that brings back some 11th grade memories. We had a guy who would argue from the communist PoV in our history class, while the rest of us would gang up on him from the capitalist perspective. I don't recall any right-wing libertarian types, although they might have preferred to keep their heads down. Ah, the certainty of youth.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:00 AM on August 23, 2016


I feel like I was simultaneously a libertarian and a theocrat for a few years. Not sure how that worked.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:03 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Given that there's so many of those the two can't be that incompatible.
posted by Artw at 10:05 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I gave a speech in speech class about how we could redirect the peace dividend! I had a pie chart showing how much I felt we could spend on additional welfare, environmental protections, national healthcare....that's kind of depressing, actually.

I'm not sure "the US should stop spending its money on foreign military adventures" is a right-wing position, though. I mean, show me which foreign military adventures of the last thirty years have genuinely achieved their humanitarian aims - it's a pretty short list. And the number which have been equivocal or made things actually worse seems to be pretty high.
posted by Frowner at 10:08 AM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


I feel like I was simultaneously a libertarian and a theocrat for a few years. Not sure how that worked.

Something like a quarter of American libertarians are evangelicals, so it's far from unusual.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:09 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]




And the rest of them are still evangelists.
posted by spitbull at 10:11 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]



I'm not sure "the US should stop spending its money on foreign military adventures" is a right-wing position, though


It certainly can be, see e.g. Pat Buchanan.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:11 AM on August 23, 2016


allegedly being a prostitute

There's a lot of problems with prostitution. First, like marijuana, it's not illegal in all 50 states. Second, also like marijuana, we've inherited its illegality from our puritan upbringings: it's genuinely debatable whether it should be illegal or not.

Third, and much more problematically, its illegality is 99% used to penalize women. That is sometimes directly, as in arrests and a legal record, or indirectly, as in pimping and sex slavery. But always, always used against women.

So even the allegation of existing near prostitution is a form gender-specific slut-shaming that one should work to avoid, as far as insults, and even casting doubt against presidential candidates, go.

Let's be better than that. Please.
posted by Dashy at 10:12 AM on August 23, 2016 [36 favorites]


The notorious Breitbart News honcho and “CEO” of the Trump campaign has a colorful history as a Hollywood Republican. For years, Bannon coasted through Hollywood as an unabashedly right-wing filmmaker

Well no one coasting through Hollywood would have any scandals worth repeating.

“Shakespeare was a natural rapper,” the flier reads. “This becomes evident in the delivery of this updated blend of two seemingly disparate genres—street rap and Elizabethan drama…

. . . Withdrawn.
posted by petebest at 10:12 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


fivethirtyeight called the Utah guy Egg McMuffin on their podcast yesterday so that's catching on.
posted by zutalors! at 10:12 AM on August 23, 2016 [15 favorites]


PPP Utah showed Trump 34, Clinton 29, Johnson 12, and McMullin at 9, Stein at 1, Harambe not a choice.
posted by spitbull at 10:14 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


You're offering them credit they haven't earned, though. The issue isn't their lack of ability to be adept, it's their unwillingness to make an effort at being adept and their resentment at it being asked of them. They're not incapable of excising some words from their vocabulary and learning to shut the hell up when they should. These racist incident eruptions show that they have been shutting their mouths. The problem is that they don't want to.

I was putting things along the lines of how they perceive things, not how I feel they should behave. As far as what they say, yes, they can and should shut up and listen, but many of them actively do not understand some of what they see as changes in rules over speech. That's their big anti-PC kick. They don't pick up nuance, they aren't good with context, they don't like change and aren't even sure what they have to change entirely. They do know some of the things that aren't supposed to be said and find some freedom in expressing those things around like minded types if that's what they've understood as "true" in some form or fashion.

They strongly believe that most liberal talk is bullshit, made up nonsense designed to confuse people, probably since it confuses them. Things are changing quite rapidly compared to our much more static past surrounding these issues. That doesn't excuse their behavior as there is no excuse for the intentional pain they try to inflict as a way to keep being noticed, but it does seem to be a real threat to them because it is beyond their understanding.

This is social change on the equivalent level of the technological changes during our lifetimes, to not understand the culture can be frightening to people and, if you're an asshole, it's not unlikely you'll try to frighten other people in return.

I of course agree we can't accept their behavior in any way, but if we can try to better understand where they're coming from we can potentially do a better job of preventing more young people from joining them before it's too late.
posted by gusottertrout at 10:14 AM on August 23, 2016 [21 favorites]


Man, this Monmouth poll does not look good for the GOP:
The presidential race in Missouri couldn't be closer according to the Monmouth University Poll , with Donald Trump holding an insignificant single point lead over Hillary Clinton. Republican senator Roy Blunt has a small 5 point edge in his bid for a second term, while Democrat Chris Koster holds a sizable 11 point lead in the race to succeed Jay Nixon as governor.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:15 AM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


50 Years of Electoral College Maps: How the U.S. Turned Red and Blue:
The beginnings of the blue-red regional alignment in today’s American politics can be traced to 1964, when Republicans broke through in the South after almost 100 years of Democratic domination.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:15 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


But having been a Republican, even as a know-nothing teenager, is an advantage because it inoculates me against the us-against-them, Republicans-are-eeevil mentality that is so common in progressive circles, including MeFi.

I was one as well. I guess the inoculation didn't take, because part of why I despise the current GOP leadership is precisely because I find them so craven and cowardly, so willing to betray principles for short term gain.

And part of why I despise much of the current GOP rank and file is precisely because I find them so willing to believe in falsehoods, to have let their minds rot by living in echo chambers catering to their ids.

The erstwhile Party of Lincoln left me before I ever really got there. I never wanted to be a part of the Party of Atwater.
posted by qcubed at 10:15 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


"Egg McMuffin Johnson" is available as a band name or bluesman persona. Inquire within.
posted by petebest at 10:15 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


I tried to explain 4 chan to my parents once and it was just like "WHAAAAAAA--that's not real, that's just an Internet thing" with the same tone people use to talk about aliens.

I have a similar reaction, except it's more "please stop telling me about your friend's HOA meeting battle and your neighbor's kids book club scandal".
posted by bongo_x at 10:15 AM on August 23, 2016 [13 favorites]


I'm getting a 404. Did they yank it because the trolling was just too next-level for the weak, low-energy American populace?

Still loads for me. Right after the question about Evan McMullin:

Q17 Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of Sausage McMuffins?
Favorable........................................................ 33%
Unfavorable .................................................... 25%
Not sure .......................................................... 43%


(Why sausage, though?)
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:16 AM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


Yeah, I'm getting it now -- must have been a momentary glitch in the Matrix.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:17 AM on August 23, 2016


New HFA ads!

Donald Trump: Demonizing Immigrants

Just One [wrong move and DJT could start a war]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:18 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


It would be more like "Evan "Egg" McMuffin" for his blues name.
posted by spitbull at 10:20 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


My high school government class memories: I took regular Government instead of AP Gov because I had a heavy AP and extracurricular load otherwise, and something had to go. My Government teacher, bless him, knew I was there to coast on the minimum effort possible to get an A and preserve my precious GPA, and more or less left me alone. I was, however, his audience of one for all the political and current events-related jokes he made that went over everyone else's heads. I was a raging, Daily Show-watching, current events-savvy baby liberal and had been for years, which wasn't really common in the conservative and religious California town I went to high school in. It didn't take long for him to catch on that I was smirking or chuckling at his jokes when no one else was, and eventually, he'd end up looking at me like I was the camera in The Office when one of my peers said something egregiously clueless or naive, and I'd look back like, "I feel you."

Anyway, I became a citizen about two weeks after 9/11, and the first national election my family was able to vote in was the 2004 one. The Iraq war, war on terror, and associated Islamophobia were basically our defining issues, and why Republicans effectively lost our votes permanently. Though if I thought little of the GOP then, I had no idea how much worse it could get. I'm one of those millennials who the GOP has lost until the heat death of the universe, though it's not like they ever really had me in the first place.
posted by yasaman at 10:21 AM on August 23, 2016 [34 favorites]


Melania has taken the side of those who punish prostitutes and shame sluts. Her past isn't a problem, it is her present that is the issue. Her past just demonstrates her lack of empathy and her hypocracy.
posted by humanfont at 10:21 AM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


Speaking of sausage...

How Your Anti-Clinton Sausage Gets Made
If you actually read the story, it shows is that Clinton Foundation donors would email Huma Abedin asking to meet with Hillary Clinton to ask for favors. They mostly didn’t get meetings and never got the favors — in other words, there’s not only not a scandal there’s not even a story. But since Hillary Clinton’s “close aide” did answer some emails and I suppose you could call that “access,” the headline is technically accurate.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:21 AM on August 23, 2016 [40 favorites]


They strongly believe that most liberal talk is bullshit, made up nonsense designed to confuse people, probably since it confuses them.

Perhaps this is our insurmountable difference of opinion. I don't think they come to I shouldn't have to change from a position of feeling confused, which makes them angry. I think they are simply angry at being forced to change. Some may be angry at their inability to understand, but I think many don't really want to understand. When they express anger that people of color get to say n----r but it's bad when they say it they aren't pissed because that contradiction confuses them, they're pissed because they have been told they can't do something.
posted by phearlez at 10:25 AM on August 23, 2016 [18 favorites]


So PPP included a question about McMuffins in their Utah poll [real]
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:10 AM on August 23 [4 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]


Wait they're definitely reading these threads then right

Am I taking crazy pills? Did that happen elsewhere?
posted by schadenfrau at 10:26 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Donald Trump: demonizando a los inmigrantes (Donald Trump: Demonizing Immigrants with Spanish subtitles)
posted by kirkaracha at 10:26 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Nah, the Egg McMuffin thing happened instantly, as soon as his candidacy was hot off the griddle. It's cheesy and flakey but it stuck.

It's all over the Internet.
posted by spitbull at 10:29 AM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


I'm luvin' it.
posted by mazola at 10:31 AM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


I, for one, look forward to watching Trump's people try to place a Jeb! campaign on top of a Trump campaign. It will be like every brand of losing.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:32 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


phearlez, I'm sure that is true at some level for many of them, I just don't think a lot of them get to that point. It all seems so alien and complex they just give up, so for the group I'm sure the reasons line up between those points somewhere.
posted by gusottertrout at 10:32 AM on August 23, 2016


I think the best response is a one on one campaign, which I call "better know your neighbors," where brave representatives of those hated and feared classes sit down and share some tea or coffee with Donnie's dupes.

The problem is that I'm sure most of these people already know tons of women, gays, immigrants, etc. (Maybe not Muslims, not everywhere.) I've known plenty of these people, and generally they'll allow that Carlos over there is a stand-up guy, but he's not typical of Those People.

My husband's boss is a Trump supporter (who doesn't intend to vote). He's big on the issue of illegal immigration. My husband spluttered at him, "But you HIRE illegal immigrants!" And he said, "Yeah, but I shouldn't be able to."

These people are masters of cognitive dissonance.
posted by threeturtles at 10:33 AM on August 23, 2016 [46 favorites]


Mike Pence doubles down on Trump's pandering to the KFC-on-private-planes demo.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:35 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


"Yeah, but I shouldn't be able to."


OMG that sums up Trump's entire appeal: recursive situational ethics.
posted by spitbull at 10:36 AM on August 23, 2016 [39 favorites]


I'll, briefly, sort of speak for how I understand some of the Trump supporters look at things. The guys I see who are all in on Trump are essentially seeking some sort of validation or affirmation of their place in the system. Racialism is a good way to describe how they view things as their concern is less about individuals of different races than groups getting an advantage over them even though they've, as they see it, played by the rules as they understand them.

They see themselves increasingly left out of American culture and see double standards employed to keep it that way. They don't understand how to speak anymore in a way that won't have them called out for racism, sexism, or other sorts of bigotry, while at the same time they see people within different minority groups able to say things they can't without being taken to task for it.

These guys, I think, have a feeling they are becoming irrelevant, being left behind as they don't know how to adapt to the changes going on. The thing is, they're right in that, they are being left behind as the culture is no longer a white man's sanctuary.

This point of view has been prevalent through American history, including and especially Reconstruction. I've rarely seen anyone come close to addressing this, especially directly.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:36 AM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


That KFC article was hilarious, but I'm incapable of imagining Mike Pence using the term "shoutout." Bad move, Mike Pence Twitter staff.
posted by infinitywaltz at 10:37 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Mike Pence doubles down on Trump's pandering to the KFC-on-private-planes demo.

Damn you Mike Pence for making Trump look sincere by comparison.
posted by zutalors! at 10:46 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


They don't understand how to speak anymore in a way that won't have them called out for racism, sexism, or other sorts of bigotry

I have some sympathy for them, there. Acceptable language changes at a pace that rivals technology. Imagine being George R. R. Martin and being told that using WordStar was offensive.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:48 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


I've seen exactly one yard sign in my neighborhood (for Johnson), but several bumper stickers for Bernie plus one for Carson. There's plenty of signage for local elections, especially school board and sheriff, but nothing national yet. FWIW, we're in a blue city in a purple county of a normally red state that's in play for Clinton.
posted by Quasirandom at 10:50 AM on August 23, 2016


jokeefe: Indeed, Hochschild reports that nearly all of her subjects have benefitted in direct ways from “a major government service.” Many of them, she adds, are “ashamed and asked me to dissociate their identity from such an act.”

Thinking on this: what if liberals took back social programs, shifting the language from the right's "entitlements" and turning it into "robust social system" or something (there has to be a better phrase). Rejoice in the fact that millions of people are supported by such government services, make these signs of the country's health that those who are injured, sick, or limited in some means can be supported by people who have found such success in this country of opportunities that they can pay a bit to programs of broader good. And don't just talk about disability payments, but the public infrastructure of roads, rail and airports, K-12 public education, heck even celebrate our armed forces being a product of (A FUCKING SHIT TON of) taxes.

/public servant rant and joyful proclamation
posted by filthy light thief at 10:51 AM on August 23, 2016 [39 favorites]


Oh, one other sort of associated thing, all these pissed off Trump fans reminds me what we lost with the decline of unions throughout the US. If this kind of tribalism had been able to find root in shared economic connections, where these guys might actually see commonalities across racial lines, then their anger might have been more directed at those who are actually keeping them down rather than those actively trying to better things in this country.
posted by gusottertrout at 10:52 AM on August 23, 2016 [27 favorites]


The President is in Baton Rouge. He'll be talking in the next few minutes most likely (originally was scheduled to be at 1:55 eastern).
posted by cashman at 10:53 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Filthy light thief: How about rebate services? Your tax money coming back in the form of assistance.
posted by gusottertrout at 10:53 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


"Yeah, but I shouldn't be able to."

I'm going to put on my devil's advocate hat for a second and disagree with this. There are tax credits and stuff that I qualify for, so I take them. I like money. But sometimes I don't think the credit or deduction should exist. Like, I think that the 15% tax rate on long-term capital gains is BS but it's not like I fudge my taxes so that I pay a higher rate than I have to.

So someone could point out that I take the deduction that I don't think should exist and I'd say, "Yeah, but I shouldn't be able to" just like him. Maybe he feels like he has to hire illegal immigrants because all of his competitors do and he doesn't think the company would survive unless he keeps the playing field level.

(takes hat off)

That said, I would wager hard cash that, if pressed, the rationalization behind his position would involve some elite level mental gymnastics.
posted by VTX at 10:53 AM on August 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


I found this article on CNBC this morning and thought it was interesting from the standpoint of giving Trump an option of releasing only his Form 1040 and his Schedule A, rather than his entire tax return for past years. As the author wrote, it would give people an idea of what his personal financial situation is as regards income, charitable giving and income tax paid.

I suspect he won't be releasing his tax forms at all, though he might produce a cover letter from his accountant stating that he made the best money, gave more to charity than anyone in history and got a refund because Trump.
posted by Silverstone at 10:55 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


The President is in Baton Rouge. He'll be talking in the next few minutes most likely (originally was scheduled to be at 1:55 eastern).

A pity he was too busy golfing to show up there earlier, when he could have rebuked the floodwaters and caused them to recede (this is a power all presidents have)
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:56 AM on August 23, 2016 [18 favorites]


Sort of different to say "I shouldn't have this perfectly legal advantage and the law should be changed" to "I shouldn't be able to break the law to my own advantage but I will."

Certainly, if your candidate is running on "law and order" themes.
posted by spitbull at 10:58 AM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


Man I hope he brought more play-doh! For the children!
posted by spitbull at 10:59 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


And don't just talk about disability payments, but the public infrastructure of roads, rail and airports, K-12 public education, heck even celebrate our armed forces being a product of (A FUCKING SHIT TON of) taxes.

I'd also hope for a flip side to this where people generally recognize the role of luck in their success and view taxes as a way to compensate the country for that luck. Then people can brag about their success by being proud of how HIGH their tax rate is.

"I'm such hot shit I pay 30% of my income as taxes! I am awesome and I help make America awesome too!"*

Guess what song I have stuck in my head now?
posted by VTX at 10:59 AM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


Guess what song I have stuck in my head now?

Slow Ride? Hot For Teacher?
posted by bongo_x at 11:02 AM on August 23, 2016 [23 favorites]


A pity he was too busy golfing to show up there earlier, when he could have rebuked the floodwaters and caused them to recede (this is a power all presidents have)

OBAMA/CANUTE 2016
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:02 AM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


Guess what song I have stuck in my head now?

Slow Ride? Hot For Teacher?


Well sure... NOW~!
posted by Aznable at 11:03 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


my brain retrieved this from some musty oubliette thanks to spitbull
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:03 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Actually, in his 2008 Grant Park victory speech Pres. Obama said something like "this is the moment when the oceans start to recede" (referring optimistically to reversing climate change).

And right wingers have used it as a derisive sneering trope ever since.
posted by spitbull at 11:05 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


"I'm such hot shit I pay 30% of my income as taxes! I am awesome and I help make America awesome too!"*

Due to a mixup earlier this year when I moved departments at one job and quit the other I was working, for about six weeks I was having income tax withheld at about a 35% rate. I offered to simply accept enough pay to owe that much in income taxes rather then correct the paperwork, but my offer was politely declined.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:06 AM on August 23, 2016 [19 favorites]


The president referenced this site, for people who want to help: http://volunteerlouisiana.gov
posted by cashman at 11:07 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


what if liberals took back social programs, shifting the language from the right's "entitlements" and turning it into "robust social system" or something (there has to be a better phrase)

You could go a long way by just structuring them as refundable tax dinguses and setting up withholding so it can flow both directions. I mean, we're doing fine, but the feds still pay 28\% of our mortgage. If we were richer, they'd pay ~40\% instead because that makes sense.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:07 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


"...shifting the language from the right's "entitlements" and turning it into "robust social system" or something..."

S.I. Hayakawa wrote about just this idea.
posted by klarck at 11:08 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I can't get over that Anthony Weiner story Countess Elena linked to waaaay upthread. How reckless can a person be? JFC, get some help, Weiner.
posted by sallybrown at 11:13 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


would it be unethical of us to try and catfish Anthony Weiner into showing up at a MeFi meetup
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:16 AM on August 23, 2016 [25 favorites]


Sort of different to say "I shouldn't have this perfectly legal advantage and the law should be changed" to "I shouldn't be able to break the law to my own advantage but I will."

Yes, and it's different to break a law and say "I don't think this is a just law" versus breaking a law and saying "I should be punished more for this."

I mean, it's the restaurant industry, and everyone knows kitchens everywhere are full of illegal immigrants. If he didn't hire them, he'd have to increase wages to attract anyone else. But Republicans don't want to raise the minimum wage, but it seems to me they'll end up at the same place by actually enforcing labor laws and eliminating a huge pool of cheap labor.
posted by threeturtles at 11:18 AM on August 23, 2016


the feds still pay 28\% of our mortgage. If we were richer, they'd pay ~40\% instead

Ability to deduct decreases as income rises, so probably not, if I understand where you're going here.
posted by achrise at 11:24 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


The Young Turks: #LoserDonald And Morning Joe Call Each Other Drunks
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:27 AM on August 23, 2016


Anyone curious about Anthony Weiner and Huma Abedin should watch the documentary Weiner.

Warning that your curiosity might not be sated even after watching.
posted by zutalors! at 11:30 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


From prize bull octorok's PPP link: "To give credit where it's due though Trump voters in Utah, contra North Carolina and Texas, at least don't think that ACORN will be the organization stealing the election for Clinton. "

wut.
posted by sldownard at 11:31 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


It's a popular belief amongst Trump supporters that ACORN will steal the election for Clinton, despite ACORN having ceased to exist half a decade ago.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:34 AM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


He's big on the issue of illegal immigration. My husband spluttered at him, "But you HIRE illegal immigrants!" And he said, "Yeah, but I shouldn't be able to."

These people are masters of cognitive dissonance.


I dunno, maybe it's not that dissonant. I think the top earners should pay more tax. Warren Buffett does too. But I'm not going to tack an additional 1% onto my returns; I'm going to vote for candidates who want a more reasonable tax structure for all.

(and I see VTX and others touched on all this too)

It's not quite a correct parallel, since I'm not breaking the law, but presumably this boss is operating in a structure where other employers are similarly employing undocumented workers. I don't think it's necessarily a complete abdication of his stance to be in favor of a system that actually enforces the law. It's also possible - if maybe unlikely - that he's doing everything entirely above-board with regards to pay and taxes and simply not verifying their legal status to work.

Now, I think it's almost certain he exhibits dissonance with regards to other actions that might lead to enforcement. We've had systems in place like eVerify for years and the supposed voices against unchecked immigration have fought tooth and nail against making it compulsory. So there's actually a path you can walk, albeit winkingly, where you employ people who you probably know are giving you a bogus social security number, and still be following the law. But that's because the law is toothless in a lot of ways, missing sufficient penalties and enforcement. Employment check enforcement actually dropped during Bush II.
posted by phearlez at 11:34 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Is the Weiner doc streaming anywhere? I want to Google it but I'm on my work laptop and I feel like a search for "weiner movie" is probably going to make some IT eyebrows raise.
posted by palomar at 11:34 AM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


wut

Republicans tend to believe that ACORN still exists and is working against them.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:35 AM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


Which is a big tell about the average age of Trump-supporting Republicans: they remember ACORN like it was yesterday. That's not the kind of thing you recollect if you're currently 30.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:36 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


And Acorn doesn't exist in Utah because...no black people!!!
posted by readery at 11:36 AM on August 23, 2016


I got the ACORN part, since a lot of people mistakenly believe that organization still exists. But what's contra North Carolina? If it's a city that is completely founded around an industry of goods, services and employment based on the game Contra, well you can sign me up up down down left right left right now.
posted by cashman at 11:36 AM on August 23, 2016 [16 favorites]


Ben Schreckinger at Politico: Anti-Trump operatives targeted in online ‘catfishing’ scheme:
Steven Wessel is a convicted con man with a Big Apple flair, feigning connections to Ronald Reagan and pretending to be an Oxford man while bilking rich Manhattanites of $750,000. But his last scam before heading to prison this spring targeted a very different kind of mark: Republican operatives opposed to Donald Trump.

And now those operatives are wondering who put Wessel up to it.

Assuming a variety of fake online identities, including that of a female solicitor in England, Wessel gushed in emails, phone calls and Twitter messages about (made-up) extramarital affairs with the likes of the late Lee Atwater, showered marks with gift cards to the swanky Mandarin Oriental, and invited them to go pheasant-hunting in Scotland — all in an apparent attempt to glean more about the operatives and their intentions regarding Trump. That was until federal prosecutors learned of the activity and a judge revoked Wessel’s bail in April, sending him to prison to begin serving a 55-month sentence ahead of schedule.
posted by palindromic at 11:37 AM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


Is the Weiner doc streaming anywhere?

CanIStream.It and MovieFone say it's not available free anywhere yet.
posted by Etrigan at 11:39 AM on August 23, 2016


> And part of why I despise much of the current GOP rank and file is precisely because I find them so willing to believe in falsehoods, to have let their minds rot by living in echo chambers catering to their ids.

That's not a GOP thing, that's a human thing; if you think much of the current Dem rank and file isn't willing to believe in falsehoods and let their minds rot by living in echo chambers, you're delusional. And the willingness to demonize the Other by picking on some human failing and making it a specialty of the Other, while Us Good Guys specialize in virtues of various sorts, is at the root of much of what's wrong with human history. I know it's hard, but things go a lot better if we try to see each other as struggling and fallible humans rather than demons and angels. We are sinners all.
posted by languagehat at 11:39 AM on August 23, 2016 [16 favorites]






But what's contra North Carolina? Dancing
posted by achrise at 11:40 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Is the Weiner doc streaming anywhere?

You can rent on Amazon for $4.99.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:41 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Is the Weiner doc streaming anywhere? I want to Google it but I'm on my work laptop and I feel like a search for "weiner movie" is probably going to make some IT eyebrows raise.

Just google "Sausage Party" after and you're probably good.
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:41 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


contra meaning "contrasting". Think of it in that sentence as "as opposed to":

To give credit where it's due though Trump voters in Utah, as opposed to [voters in] North Carolina and Texas, at least don't think that ACORN will be the organization stealing the election for Clinton.
posted by Roommate at 11:43 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


They also sparred over Bongino’s two failed campaigns ― running unsuccessfully for both the House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate ― in Maryland before moving to Florida.
Oh, that guy. Sorry about that FLA.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:44 AM on August 23, 2016


Republicans tend to believe that ACORN still exists and is working against them.
Trump's Mirror? The most powerful pro-Republican organizations officially don't exist.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:47 AM on August 23, 2016


I know it's hard, but things go a lot better if we try to see each other as struggling and fallible humans rather than demons and angels. We are sinners all.

I think it's a spectrum and some people are better/worse at it than others. I would argue that liberals (and maybe not democrats) are typically a lot better at this than others.

Metafilter is a good example. It's an echo chamber in that just about everyone says the same sorts of things but there is still a ton of disagreement. We fact-check and question each other constantly and the average mefite is pretty good at questioning themselves.

It's not an echo chamber just because every time someone asks what 2+2 is, we all shout, "4!"

The "bad guys" as much as there are bad guys, are 100% certain that they're the good guys. You can tell who the "good guys" are because they're not so sure they're doing the right thing (or the most right or doing it the right way, for the right reasons, etc.)
posted by VTX at 11:51 AM on August 23, 2016 [16 favorites]


Clinton opens campaign HQ in Utah:
The Clinton campaign announced Monday the opening of their first general election office in Salt Lake City, bolstering a recent effort by the Democratic nominee to build support among Utah’s religious community.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:53 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


I am a bit unnerved every time I see "four-way" polls.

These are not four people I want to imagine together in that way.
posted by chonus at 11:54 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


Daily Kos: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, “However bad you think he is, he’s worse” yt

Seeing Nick Gillespie conducting an interview over the words DAILY KOS are just sort of the par for the course oddity of this political season, innit?
posted by phearlez at 11:54 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


That's not a GOP thing, that's a human thing; if you think much of the current Dem rank and file isn't willing to believe in falsehoods and let their minds rot by living in echo chambers, you're delusional.

That's a false equivalence though. Both the depth and breadth of the delusions the right takes as gospel regularly exceed that of the left. There's no equivalent conspiracy theory like ACORN stealing the election (or its more emphatically racist cousin, the NBPP intimidated voters) that the left traffics in. The closest--that the 2000 election wasn't decided by the voters--has far more empirical evidence (up to and including a Supreme Court case) than either of those, and in the case of ACORN has the virtue of not depending on the parties in question no longer existing. Not to mention, of course, that the conspiracy theories of the right carry weight with elected and appointed officials all the way up to the top of all three branches of government, resulting in the creation of laws based on those falsehoods and the blocking of laws meant to address the issues (usually out-and-out bigotry) they're a smokescreen for.

The rot is far deeper and has far more power on the right, and is being used to hurt many more people. Let's not pretend otherwise.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:57 AM on August 23, 2016 [40 favorites]


And part of why I despise much of the current GOP rank and file is precisely because I find them so willing to believe in falsehoods, to have let their minds rot by living in echo chambers catering to their ids.

That's not a GOP thing, that's a human thing; if you think much of the current Dem rank and file isn't willing to believe in falsehoods and let their minds rot by living in echo chambers, you're delusional. And the willingness to demonize the Other by picking on some human failing and making it a specialty of the Other, while Us Good Guys specialize in virtues of various sorts, is at the root of much of what's wrong with human history. I know it's hard, but things go a lot better if we try to see each other as struggling and fallible humans rather than demons and angels. We are sinners all.

In general, I agree with this. Empathy is one of the most important tools to improving yourself and seeing the world more correctly. There are (at least) three other tools in that toolbox: education, skepticism, and self-awareness.

The problem with our current political climate is that people with those four tools send to see the world in more nuanced ways. They tend to have sympathy for the other, and are willing to sacrifice to help them. And they are willing to adjust their beliefs when given new evidence. Since roughly 1992, all of these things are antithetical to what the Republican party has aligned itself with.

I really want to be the person who can say "Look, those other guys over there, they are people too. We can work with them and figure out our disagreements." But that just doesn't feel true right now. And it hasn't for almost 25 years.
posted by macmac at 11:57 AM on August 23, 2016 [36 favorites]


Melania interest falls into three categories.
1) Journalists are free to dig up as much background on her as they want-- that is their job.
2) Clinton's campaign is not going to touch her with a ten foot pole because they are not going to drag relatives into this. Trump and his operatives are fair game.
3) On MetaFilter then we can talk about her with interest (i.e.gossip) but arguing about what dirt should stick to her isn't our place nor should we take that fight to social media. I think talking to friends and family, however, is best left to your own discretion.

My take on her is that Slovenia was probably not a place with much future and being blessed with good looks she took herself to the place with the best opportunities. She landed a big fish but my god the amount of work that must go into her daily life appeasing Donald and his ego must be tremendous. Then there is all of the family in-fighting to make sure that she and Baron remain in the will because I'm guessing Ivana's children play hardball and are constantly watching her like a hawk. The smallest sign of disloyalty or dissatisfaction would be reported to Daddy. Who knows what she really thinks? After 18 years with Donald she probably doesn't know herself. You have to wonder if she dreams of being free of him, though.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:00 PM on August 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


Since roughly 1992, all of these things are antithetical to what the Republican party has aligned itself with.

Exactly. The GOP has essentially forgone science for mythology in the last few decades. The former may not be infallible, but the latter almost never has even a bit of logic behind it.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:00 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


The Guardian: ‘A sense that white identity is under attack’: making sense of the alt-right
But what is the alt-right? It is new, difficult to pin down, and hard to understand. But it’s important to try to get a handle on who is involved, what they believe, and what their possible influence might be on the immediate future of rightwing politics.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:00 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


>I know it's hard, but things go a lot better if we try to see each other as struggling and fallible humans rather than demons and angels. We are sinners all.

I think it's a spectrum and some people are better/worse at it than others. I would argue that liberals (and maybe not democrats) are typically a lot better at this than others.


Hang on, is this a conversation about whether sin is evenly distributed across humans?

The Thread seems to have fallen sideways into a 16th-century theological dispute. Fascinating.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:02 PM on August 23, 2016 [13 favorites]


I am a bit unnerved every time I see "four-way" polls.

These are not four people I want to imagine together in that way.


I agree, a plate of Cincinnati chili isn't complete unless you get both onions and beans, not just one or the other.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:04 PM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


Secret Life, that's a nice story. I hear things were not so promising in Mexico and that's why José Delgado took advantage of his strong back and work ethic to make a go of it in the US. True he didn't land a billionaire, but he's got three good jobs cooking and cleaning at local restaurants and his wife now has 20 houses to clean every week.

So I think Donald should go easy on José and his family, you know?
posted by spitbull at 12:07 PM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


And lol Penn Jilette: "I didn't say his hair WAS cotton candy made of piss, I just said it LOOKED exactly like cotton candy made of piss."
posted by spitbull at 12:11 PM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


Good lord, this Bongino sure is a piece of work. Why does all the crazy in the country hafta drain down into poor Florida?
posted by Don Pepino at 12:14 PM on August 23, 2016


Why does all the crazy in the country hafta drain down into poor Florida?

Gravity + continental drip.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 12:15 PM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


There is no question that Republicans are drawn to authoritarian figures. There's Donald Trump arguing with Bill O'Reilly with his tough guy face and talking about "We are not going to coddle them." There's Ted Cruz bringing up spanking at least twice in his Presidential run. They are catering to their audience who want a strong father figure to take over and run things HIS way because that makes them feel safe. I find myself horrified at the idea of strong men and tough guys and spanking and torture and "Law and Order." I like reason and logic and talking things out and empathy. There is a very clear line and Democrats are on one side and Republicans are on the other. I may sin as much as any Republican but I am not blind to it and I can see it (and therefore forgive it) in others. I don't think Republicans see it in themselves and if they do they don't forgive it. See also: Homophobia.

So I think Donald should go easy on José and his family, you know?

Of course he should. If he wasn't such a blinkered asshole he could equate Melania's story with José's story, but he can't see anything except his own face due to his narcissism.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:17 PM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


In case you have a LinkedIn account and want to make a loooong list of people never to ever hire, check out the comments on Hillary Clinton's posts on LinkedIn.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:19 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


CNN is reporting "Hackers thought to be working for Russian intelligence have carried out a series of cyber breaches targeting reporters at the New York Times and other US news organizations."

So. Clinton campaign opposition research, Clinton e-mails, the DNC, all Democratic members of the U.S. House, and now media organizations. What do all these things have in common?
posted by Spathe Cadet at 12:20 PM on August 23, 2016 [41 favorites]


> O’Reilly Interrupts Trump’s ‘Tough’ Talk to Remind Him Cops Can’t Just Beat People Up.

Talez: I think even O'Reilly is passing on the Kool-Aid at this point.

It's not just being reminded that cops can't just beat up people, O'Reilly is hammering Donny in his non-answers. Asking "what are you going to do?" repeatedly when Donny just trots out some "tougher on crime" line. "How?" Maybe Bill softened later on in the segment, but he sounded honestly annoyed that Donnie kept bringing out the same (agreed upon) fearmongering without any solid answers to the problems. Reminding the Fox viewers that Donnie has no actual solutions. Delightful.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:21 PM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


Why does all the crazy in the country hafta drain down into poor Florida?

they don't know (and i'm not gonna tell them) it's sinking.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 12:22 PM on August 23, 2016


Spathe Cadet : So. Clinton campaign opposition research, Clinton e-mails, the DNC, all Democratic members of the U.S. House, and now media organizations. What do all these things have in common?

A KNOWN LIBERAL BIAS, THAT'S WHAT.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:25 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


Apropos that: Gizmodo published a good article about Florida, today. Not the greatest, not the first, not the last, but a good read.

From the first comment: "The fact that our own governor and most prominent senator basically cover their ears and shout LA LA LA when the topic of climate change comes up is ridiculous. How do people keep voting against their own interests? "
posted by rp at 12:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


If you've been following the news you know that NC's new voter registration laws were thrown out including the Government ID requirement. Which is a very good thing because today my husband got his Driver's License replacement and the photo was a black man with a shaved head and glasses. My husband is none of those things. When he called the DMV they said, "This has been happening a lot lately. You will have to come in in person and we will retake your picture." Terrific. Luckily he works nights so going to the DMV is a PITA but doable. So what happens if you lose your ID just before the election or it comes back with the wrong picture?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [24 favorites]


I think even O'Reilly is passing on the Kool-Aid at this point.

I don't know whether to be happy that even rightwingers seem to be turning against Trump or if I should be prospectively pissed because in five months they're all going to be swearing up and down that they were always NeverTrump and they'll probably get away with it because everything is horrible.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:27 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Oh dang has anyone posted this before? MSNBC on why Trump and Pence keep bringing up KFC (spoiler its a really gross offensive shit meme)
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:27 PM on August 23, 2016


I think one of the problems countering this platform is its seductive simplicity.
...
It's wrong, but demonstrating that it is in fact wrong takes many more words than making the argument.

During my junior year high school social studies class, we debated whether the US should or should not have bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki. My teacher assigned me the pro argument, and I tried to refuse on moral grounds. Teacher threatened to give me a zero unless I wrote a convincing speech that genuinely tried to persuade the class the US had no choice but to drop two atomic bombs on Japan and slaughter 129,000 people.

It was disturbingly easy to write that speech, because most of it had already been written for me. I researched (on microfilm!) articles from the New York Times and other pro-war papers, as well as a bunch of fearmongering, dehumanizing propaganda from the time period. So the entire speech was crafted from op-eds and articles that had been published by the mainstream media in the 1940's, which said that the Japanese were bloodthirsty animalistic, rapist warmongers who had killed men, women, children and even babies en masse during the Sino Japanese wars, and Truman couldn't possibly take the chance that they would create similar carnage on American soil.

Trump's fearmongering and Othering of minorities is part of a very long and worrisome history of racist US propaganda that is hard to counter because it appeals to some voters on a very dark (and depressing) emotional level. And it's oh-so-fucking dangerous because once you've dehumanized entire groups of people and said, "we'd be better off without them," it's not such a huge mental leap to make from advocating deportation vs. imprisonment in concentration camps vs. committing genocide. You see where the path could conceivably go, at the very least.

The class stared at me in silent horror when i was finished. Afterwards, we had to explain what our research had uncovered, and they were even more horrified to find out that I had cribbed most of my damned speech from the news.
posted by zarq at 12:28 PM on August 23, 2016 [78 favorites]


Oh dang has anyone posted this before? MSNBC on why Trump and Pence keep bringing up KFC (spoiler its a really gross offensive shit meme)

Christ. What assholes.
posted by rp at 12:29 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


So. Clinton campaign opposition research, Clinton e-mails, the DNC, all Democratic members of the U.S. House, and now media organizations. What do all these things have in common?

Windows 10.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 12:30 PM on August 23, 2016 [26 favorites]


I knew of the meme but I didn't put it together with Trump's picture and I'm surprised the MSM would go there. Mike Pence and his mother? Really? I have my doubts.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:31 PM on August 23, 2016


he doesn't even have the decency to look the part of the evil rich Republican (well-coifed, finely tailored, pristinely manicured).

Trump is nouveau riche. You're describing old money. Two completely different groups, even if they collaborate occasionally to wreak havok on the rest of the population.

posted by aught at 12:31 PM on August 23, 2016


Christ. What assholes

Yes, that's why we need to go easy on lying, perjuring , plagiarizing, birtherizing, (allegedly) undocumented Melania.
posted by spitbull at 12:33 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Oh dang has anyone posted this before? MSNBC on why Trump and Pence keep bringing up KFC (spoiler its a really gross offensive shit meme)

I'm willing to believe that the candidates' enjoyment of secret herbs and spices is separate from this gross meme but can I just point out this article is from 2013? I don't point that out to diminish Potomac Avenue's good work at digging it up and bringing it here but to note that there was anti-Clinton memorabilia at Republican Convention IN A YEAR IN WHICH SHE WAS NOT RUNNING FOR ANYTHING.

Clinton Derangement Syndrome is real, you guys.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:33 PM on August 23, 2016 [17 favorites]




MSNBC on why Trump and Pence keep bringing up KFC (spoiler its a really gross offensive shit meme)
The Australian right used a variation on the same meme re our first female PM. Wonder who stole it from who?
posted by une_heure_pleine at 12:35 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Oh dang has anyone posted this before? MSNBC on why Trump and Pence keep bringing up KFC (spoiler its a really gross offensive shit meme)

I've been lurking for the past couple of weeks, just reading all the electionfilter posts, but this...THIS....
just when you think you've seen how low the Trump campaign can go, they go even lower! I can't even...
Oh GOD DAMMIT I'M SO FUCKING IRATE RIGHT NOW!
As a woman, ....AW SHIT, i just can't anymore.
posted by ramix at 12:36 PM on August 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


I thought that was a recent article! Yikes. I was reposting from Xeni J on twitter.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:37 PM on August 23, 2016


I think it's much more damning that it's not recent. It's just more proof that these people have desired to destroy this woman for decades, even when she's just sitting at home minding her own business.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:39 PM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


[One deleted. No, we will not be debating in this thread whether the US was right or wrong to nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki.]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:39 PM on August 23, 2016 [41 favorites]


Not only is it not recent...Snopes has its origin as 1993.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:41 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]




Questions About Hillary's Health: The Birtherism of 2016
The fact that there’s no evidence for serious ailments plaguing Clinton is not an impediment to these conspiracy theories; it’s essential to them. In the absence of evidence, campaign surrogates can espouse the theories on television and elsewhere, under the old guise of “just asking questions.” This is a favorite Trump trick. He doesn’t know whether Ted Cruz’s father was implicated in the Kennedy assassination, but he saw a story saying that in the National Enquirer and he’s just asking some questions. Or, to connect this back to the birther issue, Trump doesn’t know that Barack Obama wasn’t born in the United States, but there are some fishy things, and he’s just asking whether there’s any evidence he wasn’t.

The approach requires a certain degree of complicity, from both Democrats and the press. First, it relies on the assumption that Clinton’s backers will be unwilling to fight fire. (Not that they couldn’t do so, extrapolating irresponsibly from a few data points just like their counterparts: Hey, listen, Trump is older than she is, and he’s a great fan of fast food, and …) Second, it depends on the fact that major news outlets will invite Trump surrogates to comment in the name of even-handedness, giving them a chance to air these ideas to a national audience. Poppy Harlow may have been appalled at Kremer’s comments on CNN, but Kremer still managed to get a chance to make them.
The article mentions in passing that the Pillowgate article from... (checks)... a week ago was actually satirical. I honestly have no idea what to make of that claim. It's easy enough to chalk this up to Poe's Law and say "har har, you got us credulous liberals again." It also snagged quite a few credulous conservatives, if Wayne Allyn Root's unhinged ranting in Townhall is representative*.

*"No wonder Hillary’s sick...no wonder she has “health issues”...no wonder she has trouble standing up behind a podium...or sitting on a couch without being propped up by large pillows...or walking up stairs...stress will kill you!"
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:47 PM on August 23, 2016


I am a bit unnerved every time I see "four-way" polls.

Think of it in Cincinnati terms, not sexual terms. Clinton is the chili, because without her there'd just be a pile of disappointment instead of a cohesive whole. Johnson and Stein are the onions and beans, because they disagree violently over what the fourth topping on a four-way should be and as a result neither of them is willing to buckle down to the responsibility of being the spaghetti. Trump is arsenic-laced cream cheese, inasmuch as it vaguely resembles something that's supposed to be there but is completely wrong and turns out to be even worse than it looks.
posted by jackbishop at 12:49 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


They don't understand how to speak anymore in a way that won't have them called out for racism, sexism, or other sorts of bigotry

They could try not being racist or sexist? Instead of deciding to double down on it?
posted by Justinian at 12:49 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


That's a false equivalence though. Both the depth and breadth of the delusions the right takes as gospel regularly exceed that of the left. There's no equivalent conspiracy theory like ACORN stealing the election (or its more emphatically racist cousin, the NBPP intimidated voters) that the left traffics in. The closest--that the 2000 election wasn't decided by the voters--has far more empirical evidence (up to and including a Supreme Court case) than either of those, and in the case of ACORN has the virtue of not depending on the parties in question no longer existing. Not to mention, of course, that the conspiracy theories of the right carry weight with elected and appointed officials all the way up to the top of all three branches of government, resulting in the creation of laws based on those falsehoods and the blocking of laws meant to address the issues (usually out-and-out bigotry) they're a smokescreen for.

It's worse than that. It's projection rather than delusion. The conspiracies/morality plays the right believes the left have done are things that the right has actually done.

Cash for Hostages? Reagan and Iran.
Electoral Shenanigans? Supreme Court, Jeb Bush and Brooks Brother's riot.
Foreign Influence? Sheldon Adelson and Chinese Casino money, Candidate Nixon interfering with Vietnam
Voter Fraud? The very few recent documented cases almost all came from the right.
Marriage Destruction: The republicans who impeached Clinton practically bought divorce in bulk from Costco.

Republicans have fears grounded in their reality. Their aim is just way off.

The jackboots they are afraid of are real to them because it is what they would do.

It's pure 'Dad with a daughter about to date' terror.
posted by srboisvert at 12:49 PM on August 23, 2016 [49 favorites]


Speaking of sexism, I don't remember this being commented on. Donald Trump Reportedly Wanted His Women Staffers to Pose Nude for Playboy
In his 1991 book, Trump, The Greatest Show on Earth: The Deals, The Downfall, The Reinvention, reporter Wayne Barrett included two short paragraphs on Trump’s “sexual fantasy life,” which apparently included him pitching a spread of his employees to Playboy (although it’s unclear exactly when he may have done this):

[Exerp from the book] He even tried to get Playboy to do a spread called “The Girls of Trump,” wooing his most shapely staffers, including a former beauty queen secretary, into posing for the magazine with a sliding scale of offers on everything from full nude to breast to “wet-lip” shots. It was all part of the rakish ethos of phony glamour that he consciously fostered, even to the extent of concealing from public view a very efficient secretary with a pimplish facial condition.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:51 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


And lol Penn Jilette: "I didn't say his hair WAS cotton candy made of piss, I just said it LOOKED exactly like cotton candy made of piss."

I have been trying to find a good way to describe it for months. And there it is.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:51 PM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


I think it's much more damning that it's not recent. It's just more proof that these people have desired to destroy this woman for decades, even when she's just sitting at home minding her own business.

I was a Young Republican back when Bill became president. I recognize the "joke" from way back then.
posted by notsnot at 12:52 PM on August 23, 2016


They could try not being racist or sexist? Instead of deciding to double down on it?

What they need to do is just stop talking and listen and then decide that it costs them nothing to do something that is extremely important to another person.

A lot of us came of age in a time where a lot of things that are now considered (rightly) to be totally racist were explicitly taught to us as ways of not being racist. The cure for that isn't 'don't be racist' it's 'close your mouth, open your ears, and accept that maybe you were taught wrong.'
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:54 PM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


They could try not being racist or sexist? Instead of deciding to double down on it?

That's presuposing their language is inherently racist/sexist. If they push back against "oriental" suddenly being verboten, they're probably being descriptivist rather than racist.

And yeah, you modify your language based on what people tell you, but they probably haven't had those kind of interactions and that's not necessarily their fault.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:58 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


KFC is now a covert sexist-dog whistle?

The more you learn from this site everyday.
posted by 81818181818181818181 at 1:03 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


There's no equivalent conspiracy theory like ACORN stealing the election (or its more emphatically racist cousin, the NBPP intimidated voters) that the left traffics in.

Not to disagree with you on the comparative width and breadth of right-wing conspiracy theories, but I vividly recall a lot of (frankly justifiable) paranoia about voting machine company Diebold potentially fixing the '04 election for Bush. Those fears seemed to mostly go away after Obama won in '08 and '12, even though the machines themselves don't seem to be any less tamper-proof than they were 12 years ago.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:07 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


After DNC Hack, Cybersecurity Experts Worry About Old Machines, Vote Tampering (NPR, August 20, 2016)
Security experts say that Russian hackers have broken into the computers of not only the Democratic National Committee but other targets as well.

This has raised a new wave of concerns that on Election Day, the votes themselves could be compromised by hackers, potentially tipping the results. Most states have returned to paper-backed voting systems in recent years, but that still leaves vulnerable a number of states that rely solely on machines.

Zeynep Tufekci, a professor at the University of North Carolina's School of Information and Library Science, tells NPR's Scott Simon that without these paper-backed systems, up to 15 states could be putting their election results at risk.
For your further reading (dis)pleasure: Ballotpedia: voting equipment by state
posted by filthy light thief at 1:11 PM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


See also: Flashbacks Of Florida 2000 As Voting Machines Age (NPR, March 10, 2016)
While state and federal elections experts agree optical scan units are reliable, the issue that arises is age: Problems crop up when they hit the 10-year mark. This year, 43 states will be using machines that are at least that old, according to the Brennan Center report.

Optical scan units are prone to especially serious problems, "things like motherboard failures, paper jams, the rollers that pull paper ballots into the machines can dry up over time," said Famighetti.

One Florida county had to buy parts off eBay because the manufacturer no longer made them. Famighetti estimates the cost of new voting machines across the country could exceed $1 billion, a tab states and counties would have to pay themselves.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:15 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]




> It also snagged quite a few credulous conservatives, if Wayne Allyn Root's unhinged ranting in Townhall is representative*.

Wow, that guy seems really into his fantasy scenario in which Hillary Clinton is so afraid of Donald Trump that the resulting anxiety is ruining her health. I'm sure this is an isolated thing which is in no way indicative of his attitudes towards women in general.

He also writes like a fourth-grader, but that's a separate issue.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:17 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


For your further reading (dis)pleasure: Ballotpedia: voting equipment by state

After what happened in 2000, you'd think that Florida of all states would at least have a paper backup of its voting machine results, but NOPE.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:17 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


When I was a freshman in high school (so I guess around 14) my civics class held a mock presidential election and I volunteered as a candidate. I'm not sure if I was labeled a democrat or a republican but my platform was basically "Our country is a mess, let's focus on ourselves stop trying to be the police of the world." (oh my god I'm so embarrassed how much this sounds like Trump).

It's good to me that opposition to invading, bombing, and otherwise militarily intervening in far-off countries will be dismissed for years as support for a dumb loudmouthed catastrophe's disingenuous "isolationism."
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:18 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Every Republican administration in my lifetime (except maybe Ford) has been actively criminal or borderline treasonous. Nixon: Watergate. Reagan/Bush 1.0: Iran-Contra. Bush 2.0: Invading Iraq on false pretenses.

Nixon ran a crime ring out of the White house and had the director of the FBI destroy evidence in a criminal case. Reagan and George H.W. "Out of the Loop" Bush illegally supported the contras and traded arms for hostages. George W. Bush manipulated intelligence and lied us into a war that's killed hundreds of thousands of people.

The conspiracies/morality plays the right believes the left have done are things that the right has actually done.

Cut and run? Reagan pulled out of Lebanon after 63 people were killed in the April 1983 embassy bombing and 305 people were killed in the October 1983 Beirut barracks bombings. Imagine if a Democratic president had done that.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:20 PM on August 23, 2016 [20 favorites]


I wouldn't totally rule out Utah for Hillary - we just need to get Trump talking about Mormons while he's speaking without his teleprompter. Chances are good he can manage to offend a lot of LDS folks and make them nervous about a Trump presidency.
posted by rmd1023 at 1:20 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Pen and paper.

Hell, pencil and paper.

Why u use machines America.
posted by Yowser at 1:20 PM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


That's not a GOP thing, that's a human thing;

Sure. I'll grant you that.

if you think much of the current Dem rank and file isn't willing to believe in falsehoods and let their minds rot by living in echo chambers, you're delusional.

I'll also admit I probably don't know much "rank and file", tbh, of either party. What I do have are my actual direct experiences with people who self-identify as one or the other. And of those I know, directly, who self-identify, in that small sample?

Those who identify as Democratic by and large do not buy into conspiracy bullshit. Those who identify Republican? Well, let me tell you how many fucking times I've had to answer the charge that Obama goes on apology tours, and though he doesn't give an apology, he does because of his body language and his tone and /wrists

And the willingness to demonize the Other by picking on some human failing and making it a specialty of the Other, while Us Good Guys specialize in virtues of various sorts, is at the root of much of what's wrong with human history.

Sure.

I know it's hard, but things go a lot better if we try to see each other as struggling and fallible humans rather than demons and angels. We are sinners all.

Fuck that fucking bullshit. I'm not going to turn the other cheek anymore. I'm tired of doing that. I'm a sinner, but that doesn't mean I'm going to throw up my hands and not shove back because "we're all struggling" or some bullshit.

Some of us struggle without resorting to naked displays of racial hatred and homophobia.

Let them turn their fucking cheeks for once.
posted by qcubed at 1:21 PM on August 23, 2016 [30 favorites]


I don't necessarily like that the Democrats are taking on the alt-right, but it will make for some insane news copy.



“’Big gay hate machine closes Christian pizza parlor,” the man recites. "'Climate expert: Marxist, global warming extremists control Vatican.’”

Hah!

(Forgive formatting, am on mobile)
posted by Yowser at 1:25 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Big Gay Hate Machine! I saw them on their classic Fuck the Breeders tour in '97!
posted by kirkaracha at 1:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [37 favorites]


Zeynep Tufekci, a professor at the University of North Carolina's School of Information and Library Science, tells NPR's Scott Simon that without these paper-backed systems, up to 15 states could be putting their election results at risk.
This is why we need strict federal voting standards. I'm aware that voting is currently (mostly) up to the states for Constitutional reasons, but the states apparently can't be trusted with this responsibility. Between the various laws intended to disenfranchise voters and the reliance on untrustworthy voting technology, I think the states have proven that they're incapable of doing this correctly. Also, I'm getting really tired of lawmakers who don't know anything about technology trying to make laws about this stuff. Either they don't have tech advisors, don't believe them, or their advisors are morons. And, frankly, computerized voting machines just don't age as well as older mechanical methods. I was perfectly fine casting my first few votes on a lever machine concealed by curtains hemmed in the 50's. Unfortunately, most of those old machines have been sunk into the ocean.
posted by xyzzy at 1:27 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


The KFC meme is so old that Michael Moore mentioned it in one of his first books (then immediately turned it around as a reason to sexualize HRC because dudes can be skeevy in every gradient of the political spectrum).
posted by EatTheWeak at 1:29 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I mean, really, what it boils down to is that if you believe in reiki helping your health, that's just affecting you. You're not going out and trying to make that the only medical practice available to other people.

When you say that scientists all around the fucking world are in cahoots with each other to lie about actual climate data and that there's no problem at all as countries sink beneath the ocean, you're actually fucking up a lot of other people's lives.

And I don't see why I need to coddle addled minds any more.
posted by qcubed at 1:29 PM on August 23, 2016 [13 favorites]


> I would argue that liberals (and maybe not democrats) are typically a lot better at this than others.

Of course you would, you're a liberal!

> It's not an echo chamber just because every time someone asks what 2+2 is, we all shout, "4!"

Right, "reality has a liberal bias." Sigh.

> The rot is far deeper and has far more power on the right, and is being used to hurt many more people. Let's not pretend otherwise.

Sure, and I'm not pretending otherwise, I'm saying we shouldn't allow awareness of a real difference to seduce us into a dichotomy/demonization that is attractive but unhealthy.

> Since roughly 1992, all of these things are antithetical to what the Republican party has aligned itself with.

"The Republican party" does not equal "all Republicans." Just because most Russians support Putin doesn't mean they all do, or that you're entitled to despise any random Russian you meet.

> Fuck that fucking bullshit. I'm not going to turn the other cheek anymore

You do what you have to do, but I wasn't talking about turning the other cheek, I was talking about seeing as fellow humans even those with whom we strongly disagree. Can you really not see the difference?
posted by languagehat at 1:31 PM on August 23, 2016 [25 favorites]


I was talking about seeing as fellow humans even those with whom we strongly disagree.

I will when they start doing the same to me.

Can you really not see the difference?

I can. But in this case, it really is the same.
posted by qcubed at 1:33 PM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


KFC is now a covert sexist-dog whistle?

I mean, there has to be a reason why any person would choose to eat KFC when Popeye's is available.
posted by sallybrown at 1:33 PM on August 23, 2016 [27 favorites]


I question the need to call Breitbart and the alt-right "ultraconservative." Breitbart is not a conservative site. It's a radical website.
posted by My Dad at 1:35 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


So much for "an eye for an eye turns the whole world blind," I guess.
posted by phearlez at 1:37 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I question the need to call Breitbart and the alt-right "ultraconservative." Breitbart is not a conservative site. It's a radical website.

And the Republican party isn't conservative. It's radical.
posted by Francis at 1:39 PM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]




Can we please bring back DarkEnlightenment altright sounds annoyingly like a house subgenre.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:42 PM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


thanks ~~Happy Campers~~
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:43 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I suppose one could report a Trump supporting employer of illegal immigrants to Imigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) at 1-866-DHS-2-ICE .
posted by humanfont at 1:43 PM on August 23, 2016


"DarkEnlightenment" is better in that regard? I would totally click that on iTunes.
posted by rifflesby at 1:43 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


Breitbart is not a conservative site. It's a radical reactionary website.
posted by edeezy at 1:46 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


went to Wikipedia to see if Roger Stone was officially working for the Trump campaign, came back with this gem:

in 2007 he had Richard Nixon's face tattooed on his back.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:50 PM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Roger Stone's book: The Clintons' War on Women, is co-authored with Rob Morrow. Morrow has gone off-the-reservation in regards to Trump:

Lying, Raping Donald Trump is a violent, child-rapist and he raped, slapped & threatened a 13 year old girl in 1994 @ Jeffrey Epstein party. Man is sick & evil.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:50 PM on August 23, 2016


Yup, looks like The Onion has locked down their take on Kaine.
posted by ckape at 1:50 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


In my Master's program for Counseling Psych, one of the required courses dealt a bunch with the philosophy of Constructivism. As a life-long reader, occasional taker of recreational drugs, and general weirdo, I grokked it immediately and it worked with the world-view with which I walked into that class. Most of the other students were BLOWN AWAY. Like, it was existential-crisis inducing for many of them. These were folks with presumably around the same amount of general "smarts" as me, but their backgrounds were pretty uniformly Southern Bible-Baptist, which is not known for espousing that there are a multiplicity of realities, and many different, yet valid ways to think and, indeed, live. I felt both sort of sorry for them and also a bit jealous. How much easier it is in some ways see things in such black and white terms.

It is both a great strength and weakness of the Liberal that their tendency is to say, "I don't believe that to be the case, but I can see where you are coming from;" to never say, "YOU ARE WRONG;" to try to understand others. However, this may appear to be weakness and vacillation to people who believe in One True Way, even if they are currently failing at living up to their own stated values.

At this point, though, I am less sorry and jealous of those folks. This happened when I saw that some people are no longer even attempting to argue in good faith towards the ostensible goal of a livable world and a wonderful country. Truthiness and feelings are beating the crap out of facts, and I do believe that has grown worse in my lifetime. If one more person answers my challenge about a mis-attributed quote with, "Who cares who really said it? I think it is a nice idea," (for just one maddening example), I might consider just maybe sometime perhaps not being so empathetic. (But probably not. Sigh.)
posted by thebrokedown at 1:55 PM on August 23, 2016 [15 favorites]


From this thread in 2007, (Final comment "As far as the racist shit, that doesn't even really need a response") to playing a major role presidential election of the united state of america, who would have thunk these pinhead scepter-strokers would suddenly be front page news? (Besides everyone who has read the Republic).

This makes Leo Strauss's ascension from prissy backwater classicist to Annihilator of Iraq look like child's play.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:56 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Some of us struggle without resorting to naked displays of racial hatred and homophobia. Let them turn their fucking cheeks for once.

I'm not sure hating and othering people for their ideology and beliefs, political party, or cultural "tribe" is actually better than hating and othering them for their race or sexual orientation, though. I mean, historically there have been a lot of wars and a lot of oppression on those grounds as well. "But they do evil and disgusting things!" Well, that's something that people almost always say about "the other." I believe racism and homophobia are indeed evil and disgusting, but that doesn't make me different from any member of any faction of any cultural conflict in history, or make the conflict any less likely to end in violence or injustice.

The only thing that makes our current culture wars more likely to come to some kind of peaceful and just conclusion is if we can retain our ability to see each other as human beings, who need to be convinced rather than punished for our errors.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:00 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


went to Wikipedia to see if Roger Stone was officially working for the Trump campaign, came back with this gem:

in 2007 he had Richard Nixon's face tattooed on his back.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:50 PM on August 23 [+] [!]


[4real?]
posted by Golem XIV at 2:04 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]



I'm not sure hating and othering people for their ideology and belief


Othering people for their racism isn't allowed? That's an odd reclamation of that word.

Please consider that there are PoC contributing here, who have always been told to love and understand those who hate them.
posted by zutalors! at 2:06 PM on August 23, 2016 [49 favorites]


in 2007 he had Richard Nixon's face tattooed on his back.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:50 PM on August 23 [+] [!]


by Henry Rollins while simultaneously off-roading in a jeep
posted by Existential Dread at 2:08 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


[We've been around the block a bunch of times with the general tolerance-of-political-opponents thing, with the same arguments being made on both sides -- it's a whole discussion unto itself, and given the length of these threads, probably better not to roll the election thread down that side-rail.]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:09 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


From the AP:
BREAKING: AP analysis: More than half those who met Clinton as Cabinet secretary gave money to Clinton Foundation.
I know I can be a bit of a stick in the mud about this Foundation stuff compared to other Mefites, but - with the caveats that (a) the appearance of impropriety is not the same thing as impropriety; and (b) I highly suspect a lot of the pushing about these meetings came from the Doug Band / Bill Clinton side of things - this stinks and I'm super unhappy with the lack of ethical sticklerism on display here. I get that Bill Clinton was in a unique position when leaving office, in that he was a former President with a life partner who continued to hold high elected and then appointed office...I just wish he had found a way to pursue post-Presidency charitable endeavors that did not overlap with the work Hillary Clinton was doing.

The appearance of impropriety - without the kind of "pay for play" BS Donald is making up - is harmful on its own because it degrades belief in the fairness of government, especially in positions like Secretary of State where the official makes decisions like granting or denying permits, aid, etc. And the appearance of impropriety is still present even where no one can reasonably think the Clintons were personally profiting from the Foundation.

To me, it's still wrong even if the Clintons' thought process was "Well, the Foundation does great work and if people want to contribute because they stupidly think they can buy Hillary's time or influence her, let them; that doesn't mean she will actually do what they want." The fact that officials in other countries or individuals with a lot of money still thought giving to the Foundation could buy them proximity or influence is still harmful, on its own.
posted by sallybrown at 2:11 PM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


The Dark Enlightenment and the Alt-Right are different tendencies. The Alt-Right is fascism for internet-savvy millennials, whereas the Dark Enlightenment is a weird blend of anarcho-capitalism and monarchism. They've got a lot in common, but there's a bunch of differences.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:11 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Roger Stone's book: The Clintons' War on Women, is co-authored with Rob Morrow.

I checked. It's not the same guy from Northern Exposure.
(Janine Turner, however...)
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:11 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


"You have to decide whether or not you want to be part of the bigotry that is Donald Trump. You have to decide whether you want to be part of the sexism and misogyny that is Donald Trump."

NYT columnist Charles Blow to a Trump delegate on CNN
posted by salix at 2:12 PM on August 23, 2016 [35 favorites]


Breitbart is not a conservative site. It's a r̶a̶d̶i̶c̶a̶l̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶c̶t̶i̶o̶n̶a̶r̶y̶ racist website.

"There is no "alt-right." It's just rebranded racism. It's like calling slaves "agrarian interns." No."

- Mitt Romney's top strategist Stuart Stevens.
posted by chris24 at 2:13 PM on August 23, 2016 [67 favorites]


This 2008 profile of Roger Stone has this great quote:

“Roger is a stone-cold loser,” Trump told me. “He always tries taking credit for things he never did.”

posted by My Dad at 2:15 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


NYT columnist Charles Blow to a Trump delegate on CNN

Oh, damn son.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:22 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


that is a sick burn from a Romney staffer
I didn't know they had it in them
posted by angrycat at 2:25 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


I'm on a Clinton Grassroots Donor call. Anyone else?
posted by peacheater at 2:25 PM on August 23, 2016


And the appearance of impropriety is still present even where no one can reasonably think the Clintons were personally profiting from the Foundation.

I just had an interaction with some nutter on FB about the foundation and Clinton's work on the uranium company deal. Politifact's refutation doesn't interest him, and he had handwavey media smokescreen stuff about how, somehow, this is a huge deal but Trump's associations with Russia are a big nothing. He was on about the CF paying a salary to Chelsea Clinton, so apparently that's how some of them rationalize a charity being to the Clintons' direct benefit.

I guess my tl;dr here is that reasonably doesn't seem to often enter into it.
posted by phearlez at 2:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


The fact that officials in other countries or individuals with a lot of money still thought giving to the Foundation could buy them proximity or influence is still harmful, on its own.
I'm afraid that I'm inclined to agree with people who think it's a shame that the media is trying to get the Clintons to shut down the foundation. The foundation has improved the lives of millions of people and receives a top-notch rating from charity watchdogs. So long as Hillary didn't actually engage in pay-for-play, I don't actually care if people thought that donating would get them favors. I'm a bit less enthusiastic about Huma Abedin's simultaneous involvement in about 93434 Clinton activities. If she's gonna be Clinton's Chief of Staff, she needs to just be that. Nothing else.
posted by xyzzy at 2:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Yglesias with some thoughts on that AP story.

I care less about the optics but I understand why they bother some people.
posted by dismas at 2:29 PM on August 23, 2016


(Janine Turner, however...)

Yeah, she's been a staunch Republican for years.
posted by zarq at 2:30 PM on August 23, 2016


I mean I'm not sure how we can avoid other people thinking that making donations to the Clinton Foundation will give them access. Honestly, that's how it works in much of the world, and in much of the US too I'm sure, so it's not surprising.

I'm not sure what you would have liked to have been done differently? Should Bill Clinton not have started a Foundation after his terms as President? That would have been a shame, as the Foundation has done a lot of good. Should Clinton not have run for President because her husband has this Foundation? That seems unfair since women who run for big positions like this are also likely to have spouses with a lot of power, given the way the world works. As long as nothing corrupt actually happened (and I'm actually really impressed with the way they handled all those requests - I will bet whatever you want that there are many much more respected organizations out there with much shadier behavior), why should we discount the real good the Foundation is doing? Should we allow the possible appearance of impropriety outweigh all that?
posted by peacheater at 2:32 PM on August 23, 2016 [25 favorites]


The fact that officials in other countries or individuals with a lot of money still thought giving to the Foundation could buy them proximity or influence is still harmful, on its own.

How?

There's a flaw with the AP analysis - just because someone donated to the Clinton Foundation doesn't mean that they didn't have legitimate business with the Secretary of State. Show me that people who didn't have a reason for access got it, and then I'll acknowledge there a problem. Until then, I don't see the issue.

And before you say "but the appearance", allow me to reiterate that I don't care. Why is it of such concern that idiots in power elsewhere think that they can buy access, especially in light of the evidence that they can't? Frankly, the "good government" movement's focus on appearance over actually understanding how the systems work has led to them pushing harmful policies, like ending earmarks and supporting jungle "primaries".
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:34 PM on August 23, 2016 [20 favorites]


Interesting tidbits from the call:
Tomorrow is going to be declared National Volunteer Day: they're hoping to recruit 50000 volunteers in one day. Tell all your friends.
There's also going to be more policy announced regarding Hillary's Public Health policies tomorrow, particularly how she plans to deal with epidemics like zika.
posted by peacheater at 2:34 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Was she actually on the Grassroots Donor call? I started a minute late and it took me a couple of minutes to connect.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:43 PM on August 23, 2016


Being "maker of decisions" and "accepter of donations" at the same time is not a good position to put yourself in, no matter how morally upright you are. Even if you would never let the donations influence your decisions on a conscious level, it could build in a subconscious bias in favor of people who have supported your cause. Or it give people who have a lot of money a path to developing a (genuine) relationship with you that people who don't have money don't have, so that your social perspectives will end up being skewed toward people with money.

I think the Clinton Foundation has done a lot of good, and I think the State Department agreed to the disclosure agreements that were made to avoid improprieties while Hillary served as Secretary, so she was making a good faith effort at avoiding conflicts of interest (though I understand there were some donations they didn't properly report, presumably through error.)

But I do think all the Clintons need to step away from any day to day involvement with the Clinton Foundation if Hillary is elected president. Because being "maker of decisions" and "accepter of donations" at the same time is not a good position to put yourself in.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:46 PM on August 23, 2016 [12 favorites]




What doesn't translate for me here, having read the AP article, is any sign of pay to play, as Pence is asserting now. The Clinton Foundation is a private entity that pursued many of the human rights and social justice objectives that the Obama administration shared. That the Foundation has an international focus and international objectives is also one of the things that makes Clinton much more well known, well respected, and experienced in the international arena than just about anyone. And it figures that the same people who contributed to the Foundation were also people that Clinton would be talking to as Secretary. They shared common objectives and the field of these people isn't that huge.

But to date there is no sign that being a Clinton Foundation donor translated into influence in U.S. foreign affairs, enhanced access to Secretary Clinton, or really anything else in "play." Nor is there any sign that Clinton used her position to encourage support for the Foundation.

Would anyone be really troubled if Bill or Melinda Gates took a position dealing with international health issues in an administration and ended up talking to some of the same folks that contribute to the Gates Foundation, which has done a lot to improve international health? I mean, this is what happens when people who are working through NGOs or big charities move into government -- they keep knowing the same people they knew before and pursuing the same objectives.

This is like the paid private sector speeches HRC gave. (Which are dwarfed in scale and compensation by those DJT gave.) There's a lot of handwaving but I don't actually see any evidence of anything improper.

This is also like getting upset because John Roberts was a Supreme Court litigator before he joined the Court and now familiar faces argue before him and former clients have interests in the outcome of the cases that come before the court. We do tend to select people with expertise in the area of government where they serve, and they not uncommonly get that from private sector experience. Unless there is pay for play or quid pro quo, it is not bad that people aren't strangers to the milieu in the public sector job they take.
posted by bearwife at 2:51 PM on August 23, 2016 [26 favorites]


So now Trump is composing angry Tweets about "God."

[fake]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:53 PM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


Super duper funny tho!
[fake]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:54 PM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


They've got the style down though.
posted by Artw at 2:54 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


But I do think all the Clintons need to step away from any day to day involvement with the Clinton Foundation if Hillary is elected president.

That said, Trump's businesses give him a lot more opportunities for conflicts of interest than Clinton would have. And asked about conflicts of interest, this is what he says:
I would put it in a blind trust. Well, I don't know if it's a blind trust if Ivanka, Don and Eric run it. But — is that a blind trust? I don't know. But I would probably have my children run it with my executives. And I wouldn't ever be involved, because I wouldn't care about anything but our country. Anything."
(No, Donald, that's not a blind trust.)

So... You know, my concerns about the Clinton Foundation, while real, are not really a big deal at all in comparison.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:55 PM on August 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


Would anyone be really troubled if Bill or Melinda Gates took a position dealing with international health issues in an administration and ended up talking to some of the same folks that contribute to the Gates Foundation, which has done a lot to improve international health? I mean, this is what happens when people who are working through NGOs or big charities move into government -- they keep knowing the same people they knew before and pursuing the same objectives.

Yes, I would have a problem if the position in the administration involved potentially making decisions involving those donors. Much like I would have a problem if a case Roberts worked on in his past as a private litigator reached the Supreme Court and he didn't recuse himself. (I note here that ethical regulations are far more lax for the Justices than they are for many federal employees, and there have been repeated attempts to change that that haven't gone anywhere.)
posted by sallybrown at 2:55 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I guess conflicts of interest and fraudulent behaviour of all kinds are just a given from him, so nobody really cares. Yet another benefit of extremely low expectations.
posted by Artw at 2:56 PM on August 23, 2016 [27 favorites]


So now Trump is composing angry Tweets about "God."

I mean... you knew that was satirical, right?
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:57 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


That said, Trump's businesses give him a lot more opportunities for conflicts of interest than Clinton would have.

This has been a successful argument for me when dealing with potential voters who don't want to vote Clinton because of the Foundation, FWIW. Trump has his actual personal businesses mixed up here.
posted by sallybrown at 2:57 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]




Yes, the orange fuehrer is very corrupt and is also a fraudster and con man. He's not my ruler for measuring ethical behavior. He's not even in the same football field vicinity as HRC.

But, on its own, the AP article really doesn't raise any concerns for me with the Clinton Foundation already planning to change its practices to avoid potential conflict when HRC is elected.
posted by bearwife at 2:59 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Everyone gave money to the Clinton Foundation. So when you start looking at the list of people who Clinton met with there is bound to be an overlap.
posted by humanfont at 3:00 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


"Hillary Clinton, Justin Timberlake and Jessica Biel walk into a photo booth..."

That second picture clearly shows her having a seizure.
[fake, obviously]
posted by PlusDistance at 3:01 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Oh god. Team Clinton, I beg of you: please keep yr boss separated from celebrities by at least 1000 feet at all times.
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:02 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Much like I would have a problem if a case Roberts worked on in his past as a private litigator reached the Supreme Court and he didn't recuse himself

That would be a conflict in most lawyers' and judges' books. Ruling on your own former case is a no no. But it is not the same as knowing the same players you knew in private practice. It just isn't.
posted by bearwife at 3:03 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


>So now Trump is composing angry Tweets about "God."

I mean... you knew that was satirical, right?


It was not immediately apparent those were fabricated Tweets. Sad!
posted by My Dad at 3:04 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


Think of it in Cincinnati terms, not sexual terms. Clinton is the chili, because without her there'd just be a pile of disappointment instead of a cohesive whole. Johnson and Stein are the onions and beans, because they disagree violently over what the fourth topping on a four-way should be and as a result neither of them is willing to buckle down to the responsibility of being the spaghetti. Trump is arsenic-laced cream cheese, inasmuch as it vaguely resembles something that's supposed to be there but is completely wrong and turns out to be even worse than it looks.

The whole mess is neither good nor chili*. The "appetizers" are oyster crackers onto which a drop of Tabasco sauce has been placed, there are VERY STRONG opinions about the "right" way to eat the thing, and the natives are inexplicably proud of their creation and will force it upon any and all visitors.

I don't know if that is actually a metaphor or just a rant about the chili that my co-workers make me eat every time I come to Cincinnati. Maybe it's both.

The secret ingredients are CHOCOLATE and CINNAMON! Really!
posted by VTX at 3:07 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Everyone gave money to the Clinton Foundation. So when you start looking at the list of people who Clinton met with there is bound to be an overlap.

Yeah, it would be good to also see "what percentage of CF donors met with Clinton". Its not surprising that "percentage of those who met with Clinton and donated to CF" is high, if you assume "met with Secretary of State" implies "probably has a lot of money".

I mean, I donated to the Clinton Foundation and never got my "Influence 1 Policy" gift certificate. Or maybe I missed it, probably expired by now sadly.
posted by thefoxgod at 3:08 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Now, for clear self dealing, we have the rent Trump is charging his campaign. Lots of campaign cash is flowing into his personal coffers, and that is just straight up corrupt.
posted by bearwife at 3:09 PM on August 23, 2016 [21 favorites]


And the appearance of impropriety is still present even where no one can reasonably think the Clintons were personally profiting from the Foundation.

It should be noted that the only reason you even have the ability to speculate is that the Clinton Foundation has been completely transparent in voluntarily disclosing to the public everyone who has donated to the foundation. As a standard 501(c)(3) charity, there is no requirement to disclose donors and most charities do not unless there big publicity agreement with the donor.

You would think that if the Clintons thought something shady were going on, they would simply conceal their donors. Instead they have been completely transparent and then their political opponents use that transparency against them.

And the same transparency is behind the emails thing. No previous administration government official, no cabinet member, no President or vice-President has turned over all of their work emails to the archives as required by law except for Clinton. No cabinet member or administration official has ever had all of the email turned over to the public for perusal.

Colin Powell never turned over his personal email and other communications as required by law. Dozens of other Bush administration officials also failed to archive their personal email accounts as required by law. Only Clinton has done so and then her compliance with the law and transparency has been used against her for wild speculation. Funny how that works.
posted by JackFlash at 3:12 PM on August 23, 2016 [137 favorites]




Because being "maker of decisions" and "accepter of donations" at the same time is not a good position to put yourself in.

So I assume you would be in favor of throwing out the President, every member of Congress, governors, state legislators, mayors and city councilmen. The quid pro quo is certainly much more blatant than making contributions to a charity organization once removed.
posted by JackFlash at 3:21 PM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


Lots of campaign cash is flowing into his personal coffers, and that is just straight up corrupt.

Yeaup. Which is why its the top story on all the . . . oh, wait.
posted by petebest at 3:25 PM on August 23, 2016 [19 favorites]


Because being "maker of decisions" and "accepter of donations" at the same time is not a good position to put yourself in.

I might also note that if you have contributed to the Clinton campaign, it seems that you are also complicit in the conspiracy, seeking policies from Clinton in your personal interest.
posted by JackFlash at 3:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Was she actually on the Grassroots Donor call? I started a minute late and it took me a couple of minutes to connect.
She was for a few minutes at the beginning.
posted by peacheater at 3:27 PM on August 23, 2016


> "In case you thought Trump mouthpiece Roger Stone couldn't go lower."

That is not a thought I am ever likely to have.
posted by kyrademon at 3:30 PM on August 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


Trump unveils plan to literally "Lock Her Up"

He plans to appoint a special prosecutor after he is elected to prosecute Hillary for using a private email server.

It is not a prosecutable crime, presidents don't have the power to appoint special prosecutors, and Trump is not going to be elected in the first place (Cthulhu willing), but logic and reality haven't stopped Trump yet.
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 3:35 PM on August 23, 2016 [35 favorites]


Trump unveils plan to literally "Lock Her Up"

So I guess his debate strategy is going to be to attempt a citizen's arrest on the spot?
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:40 PM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


So I assume you would be in favor of throwing out the President, every member of Congress, governors, state legislators, mayors and city councilmen. The quid pro quo is certainly much more blatant than making contributions to a charity organization once removed.

I didn't say I was in favor of throwing out Hillary Clinton! I said I thought she and her family should step back from day to day operations of the Clinton Foundation.

But yes, it did occur to me after posting that literally every political campaign is an accepter of donations, so we have unfortunately put all our politicians in this difficult position. I do indeed wish that could be avoided, but it's not really possible for politicians to step back from the day to day operations of their own campaigns.

(Although... it would be fun to have a buddy system, where you campaign for your buddy and they campaign for you, and neither of you knows who donated the money that you actually get to spend. Like "Trading Spaces" except for elections. That would probably work about as well as the "must not coordinate with Super PACs" rule though.)

Um. Anyway. There is one significant difference, still, between campaign contributions and the contributions of concern with regard to the Clinton Foundation. Campaigns are not allowed to accept money from foreign donors, but the Clinton Foundation can and does. That raises the stakes a bit on potential conflicts of interest. But I think it will be okay as long as Clinton recuses herself.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:43 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


So I guess his debate strategy is going to be to attempt a citizen's arrest on the spot?

I actually think this is possibly something that might happen
posted by thelonius at 3:48 PM on August 23, 2016 [13 favorites]


Psst. You guys...
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:49 PM on August 23, 2016 [29 favorites]


If any of you guys haven't listened to the latest episode of the With Her podcast, I very highly recommend it. Tim Kaine is adorable, and I am officially stoked for four years of America's Dad.
posted by Itaxpica at 3:52 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Via Sopan Deb -
Trump is right now polling the crowd at the Hannity taping on mass deportations.
Who do you think his Phone-a-Friend is? Should we call this game "Who Wants to Be an Actual Billionaire"?
posted by sallybrown at 3:53 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


But I think it will be okay as long as Clinton recuses herself.
From any leadership role at the Clinton Foundation, not from the presidency.

posted by OnceUponATime at 3:59 PM on August 23, 2016


Tim Kaine is adorable, and I am officially stoked for four eight years of America's Dad.
posted by tzikeh at 4:01 PM on August 23, 2016 [21 favorites]


I for one am horrified at the thought of all the people who may have gotten HIV medicine because of the Clintons' lax attitude towards the appearance of impropriety
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:05 PM on August 23, 2016 [56 favorites]


Atom Eyes: Psst. You guys...

Oh, God... How many more do they actually have to go?
posted by tzikeh at 4:09 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


They see themselves increasingly left out of American culture and see double standards employed to keep it that way. They don't understand how to speak anymore in a way that won't have them called out for racism, sexism, or other sorts of bigotry, while at the same time they see people within different minority groups able to say things they can't without being taken to task for it.

These guys, I think, have a feeling they are becoming irrelevant, being left behind as they don't know how to adapt to the changes going on. The thing is, they're right in that, they are being left behind as the culture is no longer a white man's sanctuary.


This pretty accurately describes the Trump voters I encountered when visiting family. Though I'd argue it's not that the culture isn't a white sanctuary anymore, but more that the culture is no longer "white plus assimilated white". Because I see a lot of this stuff coming not just from actual white guys, but also from guys who were assimilating and joining the table - light-skinned Hispanic men who adapted to the culture, especially. People who had to learn a foreign culture, learned it very well, and now after they assimilated, are being asked by people who aren't at the power table to adapt, because the power table is going away entirely.

People like my dad exist in pockets where most of the people they see and talk to are the same as themselves. They watch shows from at most recent, the nineties, and they don't understand or even know why or how the world has changed - why all of a sudden, every part of their speech is replete with things that are terrible.

They see people being fired or castigated for saying things that they can imagine themselves saying, things they don't understand why are wrong - things that seem "clumsy" but not verboten. And it makes them empathize with those people and worry that any day, they're going to be on the hot seat. And the thing is, they're not wrong. Because in places where the culture has rapidly shifted, it's hard to even imagine how much other places haven't.

Like, an actual (hopefully noncontroversial) case in point - my dad told me, in casual conversation, that he recommended a science fiction series to a coworker. To him, no big deal. But that science fiction series is one with horrific representation and horrific portrayals of women. Like, to me, with the culture I'm entrenched in, recommending that series is essentially like recommending some terrible niche porn to a coworker and 100% Not To Be Done At Work. And he just dropped that conversational turd there and I wanted to say something. But then I was hit with the enormous undertaking that lay before me if I wanted him to stop it. I would have had had to explain -

1) Even if you enjoy seeing women treated that way, this is no longer considered culturally okay to read and like and talk about.
2) Even if it were not terrible, you don't talk about sex at work in the same way anymore
3) You can get fired for sexual harassment, even if you're not actually trying to have sex with someone, for shit like that
4) NO JOHN RINGO NO

And then if I had explained all those, without explaining the things behind all of them, all my dad would take from it was "It's not okay to talk about the books you like at work in this CRAZY PC CULTURE of the LIBERALS."

It's not just as simple as "don't say that word", which I think people can actually get behind pretty easily. You actually have to understand context, and I think that's a lot, lot harder if you're not being exposed to it. It's still hard and frustrating for some people who are exposed to it, but at least it's possible. For guys like my dad, this stuff is dropping out of the clear blue sky and striking at complete random.

And I asked him - why are you voting for Trump? He says crazy things! And he said essentially that it's nice to see someone just saying what he thinks and not being afraid to say it, even if it's wrong or terrible.

And then I drank myself to death. And now I'm just a ghost posting on Metafilter.
posted by corb at 4:10 PM on August 23, 2016 [213 favorites]


> Oh, God... How many more do they actually have to go?

Six, plus this one. (You can do it, Tehhund! though you may not want to; nobody would blame you)
posted by Spathe Cadet at 4:13 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


And now I'm just a ghost posting on Metafilter.

A ghost script. A drunk ghost script.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:15 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


I can't decide whether my feeling that News/Campaign People Are Reading These Threads is based in reality or Trump-influenced narcissism on my part.
posted by sallybrown at 4:16 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


She was for a few minutes at the beginning.
Noooo!!!

posted by kirkaracha at 4:17 PM on August 23, 2016


I can't decide whether my feeling that News/Campaign People Are Reading These Threads is based in reality or Trump-influenced narcissism on my part.

Obvious jokes are obvious, is all.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:21 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


/momentary sense of confusion as I scroll through Recent Activiyy and thibk I have skipped on to the Hugo thread.

Er, was it really John Ringo? Because even in the 90s that would be some weird bullshit to bring up at work.
posted by Artw at 4:25 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


A drunk ghost script.

Ghostscript can indeed be kind of a pain to install.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [15 favorites]


After what happened in 2000, you'd think that Florida of all states would at least have a paper backup of its voting machine results, but NOPE.

That's WHY some places have voting machines. They don't care about accuracy of people's votes, they just don't want weeks of uncertainty again. It's expensive to count votes by hand.
posted by threeturtles at 4:27 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Context, for those who didn't hang out on LJ a LOT about a decade ago:

OH JOHN RINGO NO
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:27 PM on August 23, 2016 [35 favorites]


More from Sopan Deb on the in-person push poll on undocumented immigrants Trump administered tonight on Hannity.

Truthfully, I can't feel negatively about any candidate (even Cheeto Hitler) moving from "kick em out" to a path to citizenship on this issue.
posted by sallybrown at 4:28 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Context

Oh, that guy. Eeesh
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:32 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I can't decide whether my feeling that News/Campaign People Are Reading These Threads is based in reality or Trump-influenced narcissism on my part

Just in case Trump's people are reading these threads, I want to say "Hi!" and sincerely encourage you to get Donald to hold a really huge political rally in this great, small American town! 'Cause it's the absolute perfect setting for Mr. Trump to deliver his message from.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:33 PM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


Er, was it really John Ringo? Because even in the 90s that would be some weird bullshit to bring up at work.

I haven't read any of his work, but I get the impression that John Ringo's stuff actually fills a continuum between conservative-but-not-squicky mil-SF and, well, Paladin of Shadows. So there are Ringo suggestions which aren't conspicuously inappropriate.
posted by jackbishop at 4:34 PM on August 23, 2016


Truthfully, I can't feel negatively about any candidate (even Cheeto Hitler) moving from "kick em out" to a path to citizenship on this issue.

I can and do.
This is not being done in good faith by Trump, and the damage already done by his many months of ultra-racist rhetoric is irreversible.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:36 PM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


Trump Live in Austin

(I think there's an hour to go, but it's streaming now)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:38 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Is there some chance that Texas is gonna go blue? Because it's basically political malpractice for a Republican to campaign there if not.
posted by xyzzy at 4:40 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Here I thought it was going to be the Gor books.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:45 PM on August 23, 2016 [24 favorites]


Horace Rumpole is in fact correct; they just don't have a handy 'GAH WHY' like Ringo does, which I have appropriated for all of its type.
posted by corb at 4:48 PM on August 23, 2016 [32 favorites]


Trump is up by ~6 in Texas, but there's a huge Hispanic GOTV effort.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:49 PM on August 23, 2016


So we are going to have a speech all about Prosecuting Hillary. Terrific. It's a kind of weird torture/punishment porn at this point. I know there are people in the Trump crowds getting off on the idea of bringing this powerful woman down to size by making her wear an orange jumpsuit.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:50 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]



Horace Rumpole is in fact correct

OH CORB'S DAD NO
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:51 PM on August 23, 2016 [62 favorites]


Truthfully, I can't feel negatively about any candidate (even Cheeto Hitler) moving from "kick em out" to a path to citizenship on this issue.

>>I can and do.
This is not being done in good faith by Trump, and the damage already done by his many months of ultra-racist rhetoric is irreversible.


Agreed. I can't get past feeling that his initial impulses are how he really feels. Kicking out non-citizens, punishing women who get abortions, threatening to throw his opponent in jail and/or have her assassinated -- it's just too far from sane for anyone to trust that what he's saying now is tempered with any real sincerity.
posted by mochapickle at 4:51 PM on August 23, 2016


Trump Live in Austin

The woman singing the star spangled banner just did something very much like the heil hitler salute mid-song. [real]
posted by mochapickle at 4:53 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Meanwhile, Scotland's masterly Trump trolling hits new highs...
posted by Devonian at 4:53 PM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


Exhibit A :"Bill" and "Hillary" before Trump rally in Austin, Texas (OK not technically an orange jumpsuit, but still..)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:54 PM on August 23, 2016


The woman singing the star spangled banner just did the heil hitler salute mid-song.

The attempts to chant "USA USA USA" are very odd.
posted by My Dad at 4:56 PM on August 23, 2016


The woman singing the star spangled banner just something very much like the heil hitler salute mid-song.

Restless Nazi Arm Syndrome is real y'all, don't make fun.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:57 PM on August 23, 2016 [48 favorites]


Horace Rumpole is in fact correct

OH CORB'S DAD NO


Oh dear god. Is it time to bring out the link to HousePlants of Gor?
posted by suelac at 4:59 PM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


> conservative-but-not-squicky mil-SF

Even his not-squicky mil-SF is pretty squicky. Resurrecting dead Nazi's to fight aliens?

His actually not-squicky just-conservative stuff is just absolutely terribs.

/guiltily enjoyed some of his Posleen stuff, but had to stop because it left me feeling too greasy
posted by porpoise at 5:00 PM on August 23, 2016


That Hannity push poll... Does that mean Melania really is having legal issues?
posted by maryr at 5:00 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


As most of you know, there is some controversy over John Norman's Chronicles of Gor series, but is it deserved?

Okay, that's probably not a good sign, but you never know about these

The most common accusation we hear is that John Norman is a misogynist who advocates the subjugation, enslavement of women

Okay! Well, that. Is. A thing. Apparently.

Don't even on the John Ringo thing.
posted by petebest at 5:03 PM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


I haven't read the Gor books, but I always had the sense you could just skim over the weird sexual politics stuff if it bored you and get back to ersatz Conan? Like when I read one or two of the Aubrey/Maturin books and kept collapsing several pages into "They fucked around with the sails to try to go faster."?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:08 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


IIRC, it would be more like trying to read Aubrey/Maturin and skip the sailing stuff altogether.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:11 PM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Like when I read one or two of the Aubrey/Maturin books and kept collapsing several pages into "They fucked around with the sails to try to go faster."?

Yeah, but with actual fucking.

I have not read these books, I am just making a stupid joke, maybe there isn't actual fucking, maybe it's just clean, innocent enslavement of women.
posted by maryr at 5:12 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Is there some chance that Texas is gonna go blue? Because it's basically political malpractice for a Republican to campaign there if not.

Yes. But I didn't think Trump was smart enough to notice it even if Clinton has actually talked about it. Basically the plan is is that hispanic voters prefer Clinton by the same margin white voters prefer Trump in Texas. And black voters go overwhelmingly for Clinton. In Texas hispanic population + black population > white population. Unfortunately voter turnout is about 66% for both the black and white populations - but just under 50% for the hispanic population.

Which means if Clinton can pull of an amazing GOTV operation she can win Texas (turning a non-voter into a voter is quite spectacularly hard, and no reputable pollster is going to think she can manage). With any candidate before Obama I'd have called it a pipedream. But combine the OFA data driven campaign with Clinton's organisational skills and detail focus and ... it's possible. Not likely (like I said, getting turnout up is amazingly hard) - but enough of a possibility that campaigning in Texas isn't as silly as you might think.
posted by Francis at 5:13 PM on August 23, 2016 [16 favorites]


"What the hell do we have to lose?" Is a rally cry. [real]

Not Trump, someone else speaking.

That's catchy! Gimme a bouncy C!
posted by petebest at 5:14 PM on August 23, 2016


I believe it was Michael Moorcock who suggested placing Gor books on the highest possible shelf at the bookstore. He didn't advocate censoring the books but did advocate marginalizing books that suggested women enjoyed abuse.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:14 PM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


Speaking now: Pastor Mark Burns, who did the opening benediction at the RNC (referring to Trump a man who believes in Jesus). Leading chant for Lock Her Up.

Also referred to Hillary as "that woman."
posted by mochapickle at 5:19 PM on August 23, 2016


Like when I read one or two of the Aubrey/Maturin books

It takes a while (about three books) but eventually one is able to interpret all the talk about rigging. The Aubreyad is a lovely, magnificent, stupendous cultural achievement and should not be mentioned in this thread ANYMORE.
posted by My Dad at 5:19 PM on August 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


Now there's a very shouty man on. I'd like to personally thank the sound engineer who switched on the limiter.

"Lock her up" again which has taken on a bit of additional context in this thread.

Also a rip roaring "We are not stupid!", followed by USA! USA! USA!

I'm pretty sure this was like season 3 Simpsons.
posted by petebest at 5:20 PM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


Huh, no, this is now the weirdest derail.
posted by Tevin at 5:20 PM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]




Mark Burns, tapping his bare wrist: "Not on my watch!"
posted by mochapickle at 5:22 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


So I'm trying to read the "About Us" Page of the gor site and whatever and I swear that it is the exact same kind of fascinating & horrifying fluffernutter that is listening to some people's defence of Trump.

There's this guy trying to defend John Norman and like, the quotes he picks out are just so incriminating and awful. He tries to say that Norman is not a misogynist and then in defence of the next point pulls out a quote where Norman compares women to animals and small children. And it's like.....bro.

It's just, this has been such an unrelenting force of chaos and awful that reading about Gor has been an almost pleasant oasis.

Also, Houseplants of Gor was not linked up above and I really think it should be. Because it had me nearly rolling on the floor laughing. I think it's important to take care of yourself during these times. Break eye contact with the abyss for at least a little bit, for your mental health.
posted by Neronomius at 5:22 PM on August 23, 2016 [12 favorites]


a rip roaring "We are not stupid!", followed by USA! USA! USA!


mhm
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:22 PM on August 23, 2016


But combine the OFA data driven campaign with Clinton's organisational skills and detail focus and ... it's possible. Not likely (like I said, getting turnout up is amazingly hard) - but enough of a possibility that campaigning in Texas isn't as silly as you might think.

Plus, if the campaign feels they have 270+ EVs in the bag, spending GOTV effort in states they might not win still might pay dividends downticket.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 5:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


I'm pretty sure this was like season 3 Simpsons.

Season 16, Episode 15.
posted by Talez at 5:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Burns still talking. Mentions schools are sending opt out forms for saying the pledge of allegiance. Crowd boos and boos and boos, then recites the pledge, appending it with USA USA USA.
posted by mochapickle at 5:26 PM on August 23, 2016


I'm pretty sure the young Austin men behind him are high. Bless their hearts.

Wow Iranians are gonna kidnap us and we remember 9/11 - in the same . . . sentence? I guess?

I seriously think he's gonna start firing in the air.

Again, Simpsons season 3.
posted by petebest at 5:27 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump Live in Austin

Whoever the two guys are behind the speaker on the left side of the screen, they are the best. Their reactions are so over-the-top about everything, they have to be faking.
posted by 23skidoo at 5:29 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


If you see them reach for the Doritos in about 15 minutes, we'll call it QED.
posted by petebest at 5:31 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


they have to be faking.

I think you meant baking.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:32 PM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


They are a delight to watch! Burns just told everyone to tell their neighbors they love them and there were awkward giggles and half-embraces.
posted by mochapickle at 5:32 PM on August 23, 2016


There's a special place in hell for Mark Burns. Someone that purports to be a man of good, taking people for a ride on his prosperity gospel bullshit for his own personal gain, and sells out his own people. He distorts the word and actions of Christ.

Fuck him. He's an evil, evil man.
posted by Talez at 5:36 PM on August 23, 2016 [16 favorites]


I like to think they were just checking MetaFilter there
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:36 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


From my lengthy experience on phish tour back in the day, I consider myself highly qualified to pronounce those two young men HIGH AS SHIT.

That's also more people of color than I have ever seen at a Trump rally before. Like, combined.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:37 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Plus, if the campaign feels they have 270+ EVs in the bag, spending GOTV effort in states they might not win still might pay dividends downticket.

Not just downticket. Everyone who's paying attention knows that Texas' demographics are shifting - I believe the estimate is that Texas is supposed to come into play in 2024. If Hillary can swing it or even make it a nailbiter eight years early it's going to make a huge difference to the next few elections because voting is a habit. Winning Texas isn't a victory lap. It's playing to make the 2020 Presidential election almost impossible for the Republicans if they have to fight tooth and nail in Texas and to ensure that they have to be a very different party to even compete in 2024. (And if they can win the state race they can of course win downticket as well).
posted by Francis at 5:38 PM on August 23, 2016 [26 favorites]


I thought the one guy let out a gnarly fart, but he was just getting his cellphone. And yeah there's no doubt they're watching themselves on the livestream.

Its like, which one of us is the real one?! I mean, y'know.
posted by petebest at 5:39 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I have a bunch of friends in Austin and I'll note that I've seen pictures posted by three of them on Facebook that suggest they've gotten dressed up in the most ludicrous faux-patriotic costumes possible to go to the Trump rally as if it were a sort of cos-play event. Thus, I wonder if a certain number of the rest of the people you're seeing are there ironically.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:39 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Although, if I were to write fanfiction, it'd prolly be about the two dudebros in the matching Iron Trump tees.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:40 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Sid Miller is batshit fucking insane.
posted by Talez at 5:41 PM on August 23, 2016


Moon law isn't going over so well.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:42 PM on August 23, 2016


I half expect this guy to forget himself and blurt out "Donald J. Trump is going to put them n-----s back in their place!"
posted by Talez at 5:42 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Donald Trump understands a lot of things, we're told.

The High Brothers are just having their own conversation now.
posted by petebest at 5:43 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]



I have a bunch of friends in Austin and I'll note that I've seen pictures posted by three of them on Facebook that suggest they've gotten dressed up in the most ludicrous faux-patriotic costumes possible to go to the Trump rally as if it were a sort of cos-play event


Live Action Republican Playing?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:44 PM on August 23, 2016 [12 favorites]


First mention I've heard of phone banking ever at a Trump rally. Granted I don't pay that much attention but still...
posted by Talez at 5:45 PM on August 23, 2016


BWAHAHAA!! They just read/saw something funny and are passing the phone around, laughing. All to the twangy yet slightly wonky speechin'.
posted by petebest at 5:45 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


A little too much on the last "Lock her up", I think they should dial it back or they might not make it through the main event.

This looks to be pretty epic trolling so far.
posted by petebest at 5:48 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


People chanted Trump, then stood, then "Battle Hymn of the Republic" started at the chorus then stopped. Then it started from the beginning. A big Russian-chorale type version. Wow.
posted by petebest at 5:51 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


MINE EYES HAVE SEEN THE GLORY OF THE COMING OF THE LORD [real]
posted by petebest at 5:53 PM on August 23, 2016


And Trump is back to old form and running late.

(The music on that channel is by the streamer. When Trump shows it'll be Ride of the Valkyries.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:55 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


What is even happening.
posted by corb at 5:55 PM on August 23, 2016 [23 favorites]


> People who had to learn a foreign culture, learned it very well, and now after they assimilated, are being asked by people who aren't at the power table to adapt, because the power table is going away entirely.

Just so we're clear, the power table is not going away entirely. It is probably not ever going away entirely, and certainly not in our lifetimes. It's just making room for a few extra people, and even that isn't going down well.
posted by languagehat at 5:55 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


Now Beethoven's Fifth. (Hold music, Don's late again)

DUN DUN DUH DAAAAAHHH
posted by petebest at 5:57 PM on August 23, 2016


mochapickle: Burns still talking. Mentions schools are sending opt out forms for saying the pledge of allegiance. Crowd boos and boos and boos, then recites the pledge, appending it with USA USA USA.
[Liberals] love America just as much as [conservatives] do. But in a different way. You see, [conservatives] love America like a 4-year-old loves his mommy. Liberals love America like grown-ups. To a 4-year-old, everything Mommy does is wonderful and anyone who criticizes Mommy is bad. Grown-up love means actually understanding what you love, taking the good with the bad and helping your loved one grow. -- Al Franken, Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
posted by tzikeh at 5:57 PM on August 23, 2016 [38 favorites]


Do "Stonehenge"!!!
posted by petebest at 5:58 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I got a good feeling about this one. Let it ride dealer! I think this is the one where he accidentally lets fly a expletive or two!
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:59 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


One of the guys to the left is wearing a Muslims Without Borders t-shirt, with a Hillary for Prison bumper sticker slapped across his torso. He's totally cosplaying.
posted by mochapickle at 6:00 PM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


Jeff Sessions?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:01 PM on August 23, 2016


One of the guys to the left is wearing a Muslims Without Borders t-shirt

I was trying to make sense of that.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:03 PM on August 23, 2016


And here we go
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:04 PM on August 23, 2016


I'm watching it with the sound off just for these guys. Is there a hashtag for them yet? #undercoverbrother?
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:04 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I have to stop watching these rallies soon. Every time I watch one I grow ever more despondent for humanity.
posted by Talez at 6:09 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


And what's up with poker face right in front of them?

I'm fascinated by the human backdrop.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:09 PM on August 23, 2016


Muslims Without Borders changed its name to United Muslim Relief. They're an NGO that was founded by students at George Mason University.
posted by xyzzy at 6:10 PM on August 23, 2016


Independence from corrupt politicians and rigged systems and bring jobs back and the media don't care about us, and they don't report on our crowds, and crushing debt. America First!
TrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrump

Meelions and meelions of new jobs. Repeal Obamacare, its a disaster mmmkay, appoint judges, 2nd amendment, veterans will get the right to see a doctor. Eliminate regulations. Unleash energy revolution. Lets talk about crime.
posted by petebest at 6:12 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Doesn't Austin have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the US? The economy has been so good there has been net migration from the rest of the US, notably California? Undocumented migrants also benefit the local economy by helping create cheap housing. Austin has some of the lowest housing prices in the US.
posted by My Dad at 6:14 PM on August 23, 2016


I got a good feeling about this one. Let it ride dealer!

Tonight's the night, isn't it? I feel it too, but I can't watch. It's worse than CSI.
posted by bongo_x at 6:15 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I was just looking at Twitter and... dear Trump Twitter: Attracting 10k people to a Trump rally in Texas is really not that huge of a feat.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:15 PM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Anyone know who the guy just to the left behind Trump is, the one in the suit and tie? He keeps mouthing the words to Trump's speech as if he knows it already. (Or is he just reading a teleprompter?)
posted by mochapickle at 6:15 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I want full dossiers on all of those people, tbh.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:16 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Looks like a protester just got kicked out.
posted by Talez at 6:16 PM on August 23, 2016


Thanking the police. (Pivot!). Praying for families? Law enforcement, We are with you we support you and we will always stand with you WE LOVE YOU.

Appoint a federal official and officials to dismantle gangs, drug dealers, and murderers. And they are everywhere mmmkay.

(Highbros are voguing to the TrumpTrumpTrump)

28.6% to 27.4% metrics percentage has grown 26.2% up too much. 11.7 million, 58.2% (crowd boos or ohhs, can't tell). Young AA are unemployed. Baltimore and the 50 largest US cities. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE IN TRYING TRUMP. I WILL FIX IT.
posted by petebest at 6:19 PM on August 23, 2016


Maddow announcing South Carolina as a battleground state now. Feldman Group (I'm not familiar with them) polled Trump and Clinton even at 39% each.
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:20 PM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


I don't know about unemployment but S someone who lived in Austin in the late 80s and early 90s, when I go back now I cannot believe the number of homeless people in the downtown area.
posted by spitbull at 6:20 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


"Vote for me, what do you have to lose?"
posted by My Dad at 6:20 PM on August 23, 2016


I've never seen white people in Texas care so much about the plight of black people.
posted by Talez at 6:21 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


"What do you have to lose" as a campaign slogan is just... I finally can't even with this guy.
posted by feloniousmonk at 6:21 PM on August 23, 2016 [29 favorites]


Highbros cheering at Build The Wall as if they are playing cash bingo and it's a $100 square.
posted by mochapickle at 6:22 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'm watching little orphan Annie on the POP channel. Daddy Warbucks is a total dick. [Real]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:22 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


I hope those guys out themselves to the media later because Twitter has already glommed on to pictures of Trump with THREE WHOLE BLACK PEOPLE behind him as evidence that Trump rallies are totes diverse and Trumpism is totes inclusive. I will die a happy woman if they contact the nearest media organization in about 2 hours with pictures of themselves and say, "Just so you know, we trolled you all real hard. Have a nice day. #I'mwith her"
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:25 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


"What do you have to lose" as a campaign slogan is just... I finally can't even with this guy.

There's only one person who's ever made "What do you have to lose?" a winning sales pitch, and Donald Trump is no Charles Atlas.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


A lot about people getting shot. Pronounced "shæt"

Border security wall chant, with some random high-pitched shreiking. Mexico will pay. Deficits will go away. We'll be so happy when Mexico does, in fact, pay for the wall.

200,000 illegal, half a billion, 1005, 515,000 and 415, not gonna happen. Hillary wants cats and release (?). And better benefits to illegal immigrants than our veterans get. Sanctuary cities. She wants people to overstay their visas (hello, Melania), we are gonna vote President Donald Trump and we are gonna stop it.

Hillary 550% Obama Trojan horse, terrer, 9/11, Boston bombing, Orlando, but Hillary wants to let everyone come in, its a nightmare just like Europe ask them. We owe 220 trillion but we're not going to pay they can pay they have the money. I'm going to suspend visas the oath of citizenship
posted by petebest at 6:28 PM on August 23, 2016


The YT channel doing the livestreaming has some really weird video "favorites" (that are not available anymore?)

★ Favorite Videos ★
――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――
★ Hillary The Dog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsXsS...
★ The Snake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKJlh...
★ KKK Protester https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v11nc...
★ KKK Vampire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enylM...

posted by My Dad at 6:28 PM on August 23, 2016


I don't have the stomach to look at it but I'm really wondering how long Trump's tie is today.
posted by dilettante at 6:32 PM on August 23, 2016



And he said essentially that it's nice to see someone just saying what he thinks and not being afraid to say it, even if it's wrong or terrible.
...
Horace Rumpole is in fact correct

OH CORB'S DAD NO

Oh dear god. Is it time to bring out the link to HousePlants of Gor?


The Cuckjeeras won't like that.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:33 PM on August 23, 2016


'Here are the white mothers of people killed by those damn brown people.' [basically real]

Softening on immigration. Yep.
posted by chris24 at 6:34 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Mothers who lost their sons to illegal immigration are onstage hugging Trump (?). The Border Patrol are here and they've endorsed me for the first time in history. Incredible people.

Border patrol guy talking, looks like a regular guy in a suit.
posted by petebest at 6:34 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Tie significantly past belt.
posted by mochapickle at 6:36 PM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


Greiving mothers tell about their sons being killed. Vote Trump.
posted by petebest at 6:36 PM on August 23, 2016


Thanks, mochapickle! Once it was pointed out I couldn't stop noticing and wondering if it was ever going to change.
posted by dilettante at 6:38 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Regarding Trump's ground game, I signed up to be an Official Trump Election Observer using the link that someone posted two (?) threads ago. I was able to sign up without donating to the campaign and received an email that said this:

Thank you for volunteering to be a Trump Election Observer! We are going to do everything we are legally allowed to do to stop crooked Hillary from rigging this election. Someone from the campaign will be contacting you soon.
Thank you for helping to Make America Great Again,
Team Trump
Thanks,
Team TRUMP

"Well," I thought, "I will eat my hat if I ever hear from these folks again about anything." They are obviously too half-assed and disorganized to ever follow up on anything. And indeed, many days went by with no contact from their campaign.

So I went online to find my small, rural, Georgia county's Republican party office, so I could call them and ask them what I should do to realize my dream. Sadly, there was no phone number listed anywhere on the site, and the "join the party!" link led to a scanned-in gif of a form that you have to print out and mail in.

I then called Georgia's Republican party office and told the nice lady on the phone that I'd signed up to be an election observer for Trump but hadn't heard from anyone, and could she help me?

"What?" she said, sounding spooked, "An election observer? Where did you do that?"

"On Trump's website," I said.

"What? Really. Really?"

"Yes, and I haven't heard anything yet, and I wanted to know if maybe there was some coordination between, uh, Trump campaign efforts locally and the local GOP offices."

"No," she said, "There is no coordination. And this "election observer" thing is news to me. No one's said anything about it all. No one here has even heard of it."

"OK," I said, "Well, it's on his website."

She kind of groaned and suggested I call my local GOP office to ask if I could be a poll worker ("not observer," she said, sounding disgusted.) She gave me the phone number and I called the guy, but he has not called me back.

I will call him again and am planning to contact the Trump campaign itself (if I can find anyone actually working for it) to ask if I can observe the election. I'll let you know if anything interesting happens, but I doubt anything will happen at all. These people are rank amateurs.

On the other hand, you can't swing a dead cat around these parts without hitting a Trump voter (believe me, I've tried), so his ground game may not matter all that much.
posted by staggering termagant at 6:38 PM on August 23, 2016 [121 favorites]


Protester getting kicked out. The highbros' over-the-top reactions are reminiscent of the audience at a Jerry Springer show.
posted by mochapickle at 6:39 PM on August 23, 2016


I brought my sons ashes, I have no family left, remember that if you feel sympathy for illegal immigrants. And Mr. Donald J Trump.
BuildtheWallBuildtheWallBuildtheWall
[real]

Highbro is airdrumming now.
posted by petebest at 6:39 PM on August 23, 2016


Feldman Group (I'm not familiar with them)
Wha' dya know?
posted by Floydd at 6:40 PM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Significant protest delay, can't see anything, woman in a white tshirt marched out. Go white tshirt lady.
posted by petebest at 6:41 PM on August 23, 2016


At this point, I wouldn't be shocked if the "protestors" are campaign plants to gin-up the drama.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:44 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm amused that the toque is apparently common property between the highbros.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:44 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


HFA has been asking for lawyers and law students to sign up to be election observers (which is a real thing that campaigns do do and have done before, but every time I hear of it, the solicitation is explicitly to lawyers, not just randos who feel like giving voters stink-eyes).
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:44 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Hillary has taken huge amounts of cash and done a bunch of favors for people and we're all embarrassed. She lied. She said she used one device but she used multiple devices so that was another lie. Can you imagine what was on the deleted emails?! Why were her lawyers set free?

Highbros are getting bored.
posted by petebest at 6:46 PM on August 23, 2016


Heavy, put-upon sigh from the white dude in front of the highbros lololol
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:46 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Another protestor. Bernie protestors had more vim and vigor. These are very low energy.
posted by petebest at 6:48 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Hi, not all african american people live in inner cities. Thank you.
posted by mochapickle at 6:50 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


This is just... if I wasn't a dyed in the wool social liberalist I'm pretty sure I could be fooled and swayed by this. It's just so seductive and easy.
posted by Talez at 6:51 PM on August 23, 2016


The UBS saga is flopping. Seekrit identities, the government settled. Her intervention was described (presumably "by some") as "unusual". I have called for a special prosecutor to look into this mess. LockherupLockherupLockherup. We will win. You'll be voting for justice, equality, and jobs. Everyone will be happy if I win.
posted by petebest at 6:51 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


What's with the way he says 'Latino?' Does he think that's flattering?

It'd be like saying 'Jewish' while doing Eddie Murphy's Yiddish accent.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:52 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump just accused Hillary of seeing african americans only as votes, not as people, says the man who has never met with the NAACP.
posted by mochapickle at 6:52 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


This Breitbart-era shit is utterly terrifying. Flipping bigotry back on Clinton. It's like doublespeak out of 1984.
posted by Talez at 6:52 PM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


This is just... if I wasn't a dyed in the wool social liberalist I'm pretty sure I could be fooled and swayed by this. It's just so seductive and easy.

Luke: Is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.
posted by Justinian at 6:52 PM on August 23, 2016 [28 favorites]


(Nice job on the liveblog, petebest.)
posted by mochapickle at 6:54 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Luke: Is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.


Does this mean we can anticipate Trump, losing his limbs, on fire?
posted by tzikeh at 6:55 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Highbro, is getting into it. We've had some shadowboxing, some ladder climbing, some x-armed thumbs up.

America first.

Fin, exit to Wagner
posted by petebest at 6:55 PM on August 23, 2016


This Breitbart-era shit is utterly terrifying. Flipping bigotry back on Clinton. It's like doublespeak out of 1984.

Who is it fooling? Not African Americans. Maybe some suburban whites which is who it's intended for, but anyone who's convinced by it is clearly just looking for an excuse. And he needs to do a lot more than just get some stray Republicans back in the fold.
posted by chris24 at 6:55 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Kind of funny that the overall trend of the "meta-margin" over the last month on PEC goes up faster than the slope of the 95% yellow cone.
posted by ctmf at 6:58 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


The "nay, but it is liberals who are racist!" line has been in the Republican playbook for decades. It just used to be mentioned in passing and now is turned up to FULL BLAST because of Trump's projection thing.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:58 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


Fin, exit to Wagner
posted by petebest at 7:01 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


GOP Senator Jeff Flake: I don't think Trump can or should win
posted by chris24 at 7:02 PM on August 23, 2016 [15 favorites]


Luke: Is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

Does this mean we can anticipate Trump, losing his limbs, on fire?


I'd like to think his campaign is losing them more in the manner of The Black Knight.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:03 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


chris24: GOP Senator Jeff Flake: I don't think Trump can or should win

Of the many weirdnesses of this campaign season, that it's led me to grudgingly respect our junior Senator isn't anywhere near the top of the list, but it's on there.
posted by Superplin at 7:07 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


(I mean, let's not go overboard: he says he "wants to support Trump" and qualifies his non-support by saying it's contingent on failure to course-correct, so he's still pretty vile. Just marginally less so than I would have expected of him.)
posted by Superplin at 7:09 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Luke: Is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

Does this mean we can anticipate Trump, losing his limbs, on fire?
posted by tzikeh at 8:55 PM on August 23


If he does I'm walking away from Alderaan.
posted by Reverend John at 7:15 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Wow. That was his longest speech since the RNC.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:19 PM on August 23, 2016


They also sparred over Bongino’s two failed campaigns ― running unsuccessfully for both the House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate ― in Maryland before moving to Florida.

Oh, that guy. Sorry about that FLA.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:44 PM on August 23 [+] [!]


Not to worry, ChurchHatesTucker, our little peninsula full of giant cockroaches, algae-covered beaches, and face-eating psycopaths welcomes your hilariously named shitbucket of a candidate with open arms! Or, should I say, openly carried!
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:19 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


You gotta figure, Florida Man will try to vote Trump, but something bad will happen to him on the way to the polls.
posted by thelonius at 7:23 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


Listening to the Tim Kaine podcast. Can I just say how wonderful it is to hear him talk about not just his wife supporting him, but him supporting his wife in her career, as Secretary of Education? And also when asked about the decision she made to resign and support him he talks about how she kept her own name and wanted her own career so the decision was not made lightly, but because of how Hillary's passions for education overlapped with his wife's.
posted by peacheater at 7:24 PM on August 23, 2016 [27 favorites]


Feldman Group poll of LV in *South Carolina* (for the SC Democratic Party) finds HRC and DT *tied* at 39 (not necessarily an outlier, as PPP also found them close within the margin of error last month).

Whoa.
posted by spitbull at 7:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Cher is on Lawrence O'Donnell and it's amazing.
posted by zutalors! at 7:28 PM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


HFA has been asking for lawyers and law students to sign up to be election observers (which is a real thing that campaigns do do and have done before, but every time I hear of it, the solicitation is explicitly to lawyers, not just randos who feel like giving voters stink-eyes).

I did this with OFA in 2008, see above. If you're a lawyer/law student I'd highly suggest doing it. In 2008 they gave us training and a legal packet on things to look for, what we could do (not much except call the hotline and report it, document what you saw and give a statement in the event of a lawsuit), and what to say (not a lot, answer very basic questions if asked), where to stand, etc. In 2008 there were volunteer legal observers at something like 1000 polling places in Missouri.

I'm not sure OFA did it again in 2012, I dont really know, and I was a DC resident at that time so I didn't bother to find out. I may sign up to do it again now that I live in VA, although VA is looking like a lock at the moment too.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:37 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


GOP Senator Jeff Flake: I don't think Trump can or should win

I read this as they're getting seriously worried about McCain.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:38 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


My husband's boss is a Trump supporter (who doesn't intend to vote). He's big on the issue of illegal immigration. My husband spluttered at him, "But you HIRE illegal immigrants!" And he said, "Yeah, but I shouldn't be able to."

These people are masters of cognitive dissonance.
Actually I'd give that boss partial credit on intellectual honesty and pragmatism, even though I'd totally fail him on morals. It's man-bites-dog to see someone asking to have laws enacted to stop themself from doing something. Most people want laws that stop others from doing something that they don't do themself, or that doesn't affect them.
posted by Autumn Leaf at 7:43 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Context, for those who didn't hang out on LJ a LOT about a decade ago

Huh. Thanks for that, Pope Guilty. I did nothing BUT hang out on LJ about a decade ago, and somehow missed that entirely.

All this time, I just figured one of the Beatles had done something appalling....
posted by kythuen at 7:44 PM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Fin, exit to Wagner

Wait, did this really happen or not?
posted by donatella at 7:49 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


39-39 in SC is from a four-way poll that includes Johnson and Stein; a strict two-way is 45-43 to Trump. There are enough overlapping media markets with NC and GA to mean that Clinton's already on the air there -- the only ones that aren't cover Charleston and Columbia -- but field operations are likely to be tough.
posted by holgate at 7:51 PM on August 23, 2016


I'm watching little orphan Annie on the POP channel. Daddy Warbucks is a total dick. [Real]

I watched Weiner on Amazon (thanks for the tip upthread). Anthony Weiner is a total dick. [Real]

p.s. The small, perfect scene of Huma in the background eating pizza on election night is the definition of "out of fucks to give."
posted by sallybrown at 7:53 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Wait, did this really happen or not?

The person running the live stream plays him on and off to Wagner. It's added, not the live entry/exit music.
posted by chris24 at 7:57 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Oh hey, I just realized MSNBC didn't break into even a second of their programming tonight to cover Trimp's rally live. Fantastic.
posted by cashman at 8:01 PM on August 23, 2016 [19 favorites]


Of the many weirdnesses of this campaign season, that it's led me to grudgingly respect our junior Senator isn't anywhere near the top of the list, but it's on there.

Same. Realizing that Jeff Flake is not the worst (I mean, that's as far I'm willing to go, BUT STILL), and feeling a tiny bit better that he's representing AZ, has been a minor, positive mindtrip among all the unpleasant unsettledness.
posted by mixedmetaphors at 8:07 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


All this time, I just figured one of the Beatles had done something appalling....

John Ringo's troublesome prose and awful views of women is well-outlined above. I have a friend (and former flatmate) who is both a moderately successful SF author and also pretty liberal left-leaning by nature; I should see if he has ever considered writing some thoughtful, feminist science fiction under the pen name Paul George.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:11 PM on August 23, 2016 [38 favorites]


> Psst. You guys...

We have to go back, Kate.
WE HAVE TO GO BACK!
posted by guiseroom at 8:12 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'm felling pretty good about my prediction from March:
This is how she's going to win. She and Trump have both been public figures for decades, so people already have an idea of who they are.

As we get closer to the election and it's formally down to him versus her, people will take a second look. With her, they'll think, "I thought she was a bitch but she's kind of nice and funny." With him they'll think, "I always thought he was kind of a blowhard, but I didn't realize how much of an asshole he is."

Advantage Hils.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:14 PM on August 23, 2016 [33 favorites]


Asking "what are you going to do?" repeatedly when Donny just trots out some "tougher on crime" line. "How?" Maybe Bill softened later on in the segment, but he sounded honestly annoyed that Donnie kept bringing out the same (agreed upon) fearmongering without any solid answers to the problems. Reminding the Fox viewers that Donnie has no actual solutions. Delightful.

Did you not even watch the segment? He may have no solutions, but he knows a guy who does – one of the best guys, believe me – who knows exactly what to do. Trump haste a very good relationship with this guy and respects him, and this guy has a solution worked out.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:19 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


The person running the live stream plays him on and off to Wagner.

Not chilling at all!
posted by Miko at 8:20 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


Not chilling at all!

Neither am I. Kinda freaking out, actually.
posted by dersins at 8:22 PM on August 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


I just realized MSNBC didn't break into even a second of their programming tonight to cover Trimp's rally live.

They did apparently have Ann Coulter on plugging her book, so there's that.
posted by holgate at 8:32 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Hillary 550% Obama Trojan horse,
terrer, 9/11, Boston bombing, Orlando, but Hillary wants
to let everyone come in
its a nightmare just like Europe ask them.

We owe 220 trillion but we're not
going to pay they can
pay they have the money
I'm going to suspend visas the
oath of citizenship


london bridge is falling down falling down falling down

poi s’ascose nel foco che gli affina
quando fiam ceu chelidon—O swallow swallow
Le Prince d’Aquitaine à la tour abolie
these fragments I have shored against my ruins
Why then Ile fit you. Hieronymo’s mad againe.
Datta. Dayadhvam. Damyata.

shantih shantih shantih
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 8:34 PM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw.
Trump/Pence 2016
posted by airish at 8:42 PM on August 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


I will show you the best fear in a really big handful of dust.
posted by infinitewindow at 8:45 PM on August 23, 2016 [30 favorites]


Trump Off Camera: The Man Behind The 'In-Your-Face Provocateur', a Fresh Air interview by Dave Davies with the co-authors of Trump Revealed: An American Journey of Ambition, Ego, Money, and Power. Transcript.
DAVIES: Let's let's just spend a moment on this episode 'cause it's an interesting one. What were the facts? What caused the government to charge that the Trump company was discriminating in renting apartments?

KRANISH: Well, agents of the Trump company allegedly were - when a black person would come in to rent an apartment in a certain area, they would mark down codes on sheets. They would write C for colored or number nine.

And these would indicate whether or not a black person had come and whether or not they wanted to put that person in a certain apartment. And time and again, testers were sent. There were city agency officials. There were housing officials.

And they would go and represent themselves as potential tenants. And then they would file reports. And they eventually filed enough reports showing that there were - there was bias. For example, I interviewed a woman who was part of this testing. And she recalled she was a white woman and her husband was African-American.

Her husband went to rent an apartment one day and was told, there was no space at this apartment for you. The next day, his wife came back for the same exact apartment and was told, we'd be delighted to have you. Little did the Trump folks know - but this woman was accompanied by housing officials who were waiting outside to see what would happen.

They then confronted this rental agent and went over to the Trump company offices. And it became part of the case that was built against Donald and Fred Trump. And so what I would underscore here is that this was a case that named Donald. It named Fred, and it named their company.

posted by xyzzy at 9:32 PM on August 23, 2016 [54 favorites]


So getting away from the Trump/Cthulhu stuff for a minute.
Somehow I live in Austin and have experienced absolutely zero election stuff, outside of immediate family and a bit of today's bizarro "rally" thanks to y'all, but this week I've seen a few official Hillary signs and bumper stickers popping up. I grew up in the rust belt decline and rebirth and redecline in Ohio and Michigan. And have lived and worked in the highest-tech whatevers in SF.
And this week (how is it only Tuesday) I have spent hours at a machine shop, perfecting the processes to make little metal parts say the right thing to the right people. I guesss I'm saying all this because when politicians are talking about jobs jobs jobs and tariffs and deals, it's the kind of thing that has an immediate impact on what I'm doing, and the decisions a large organization makes. Because the part I'm responsible for is the design- the part that affects how people feel about inanimate objects. Which is obviously a luxury. The places I grew up in were like leftovers of WW I-II, and there have been many studies done on what happened there and how a war-production economy works and fails when there's not enough big war. Hello, 20th-Century America! Are we ready to move on? To the next big thing? That affects all of us?

And I'm working with a guy who has an amazing machine shop, who's hiring people and starting a second shift, and working past midnight to achieve, in metal, the functional needs and aesthetic ideals of the people (in a not-big, but industry-influential company, who employs people right here, Made in America, I'm lookin at you) he's making those parts for. The things we're making are pretty antithetical to a war-state. And I want to be able to work with them on more than just this, because these are people with real, functional ideas about physiscs, materials, and how we can make energy not depend on dinosaurs.

That's pretty fuckin awesome.

Not a single person outside of the hour or so of radio I listen to has mentioned the election. We all got shit to do. Problems to solve. Like the stuff I ordered from the campaign shop a couple weeks ago, still not shipped! Get your shit together! We should have been wearing out our Hillary shirts already.

Let's get over this speedbump, and put it past us. Make it decisive. Make it a mandate.
posted by rp at 10:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [24 favorites]


Mother Jones has a fascinating long excerpt from Strangers in Their Own Land: Anger and Mourning on the American Right, by sociologist Arlie Hochschild.

A sample:

Shaming the "takers" below had been a precious mark of higher status. What if, as a vulnerable blue-collar white worker, one were now to become a "taker" oneself?

Trump, the King of Shame, has covertly come to the rescue. He has shamed virtually every line-cutting group in the Deep Story—women, people of color, the disabled, immigrants, refugees. But he's hardly uttered a single bad word about unemployment insurance, food stamps, or Medicaid, or what the tea party calls "big government handouts," for anyone—including blue-collar white men.

In this feint, Trump solves a white male problem of pride. Benefits? If you need them, okay. He masculinizes it.

posted by salix at 10:29 PM on August 23, 2016 [24 favorites]


Metafilter: Memes aren't about understanding they're about joining in and playing the self-referential, meaningless game.

Seriously people - this should have been up twelve hours ago. We've got to have a better ground game than this by election day!

posted by Kid Charlemagne at 10:36 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Meanwhile, the post-Sanders campaign-to-movement organization continues to be a complete shitshow. It's pretty clear Bernie accidentally caught lightning in a bottle, and neither he nor one around him had any fucking idea what to do with it during or after. Anything that arises from the Bernie campaign won't be because of the candidate, or anyone associated with the official campaign, which is unfortunate. He had the opportunity to be a real leader even in defeat, but him or his people or both are fumbling it away big time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:36 PM on August 23, 2016 [19 favorites]


I feel if we achieve nothing else this year we could at least get Corb's dad some decent military sf to read.
posted by um at 11:05 PM on August 23, 2016 [28 favorites]


(but please: in another thread. this one is already seen derails enough.)
posted by Nerd of the North at 11:10 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I don't think it's Sanders or his people. The people I know who were for Sanders weren't for him because of his policies so much. It was more like they saw Sanders as the magical unicorn who would, with the touch of his horn, dispel the poison in the Federal government and instantly end partisanship, break the enchantment that special interest money had on the house and senate and so on, rather than the realistic model where, if he won, he would get precisely as much cooperation as Obama got.

In hindsight it's not really too surprising to see people who supported Sanders fail to support Sanders' issues.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 11:17 PM on August 23, 2016 [18 favorites]


Second guess was "flying thriller": Brewer Says Calling Clinton A 'Lying Killer' Was A 'Stumble Of The Tongue'
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I don't think it's Sanders or his people. The people I know who were for Sanders weren't for him because of his policies so much. It was more like they saw Sanders as the magical unicorn who would, with the touch of his horn, dispel the poison in the Federal government and instantly end partisanship, break the enchantment that special interest money had on the house and senate and so on, rather than the realistic model where, if he won, he would get precisely as much cooperation as Obama got.

I agree that I think many Sanders supporters had a perhaps optimistic view of what Sanders could achieve, but I disagree that Sanders himself wasn't an issue. If you read the articles about this, the bulk of the staff joined Our Revolution under the promise that Weaver wouldn't be involved. Then late last week Bernie and Jane put him back in control. There were some pretty long, anguished phone calls, but in the end Weaver was going to be the head so that chunk of staffers quit.

I think anyone who saw Weaver on the campaign trail recognized his issues as a staffer. He got by until now on account of being best buds with Bernie and Jane from the 80s, and because if you're staffing for someone occupying a long-term, settled Congressional seat who isn't a big mover and shaker then running a re-election campaign and managing his affairs just doesn't carry the same weight of responsibilities or PR demands. Presidential races are a whole other ballgame.
posted by schroedinger at 11:44 PM on August 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


Katy Tur interviewing Trump supporters on his changing stance on immigration.
Summary: They are fine with it and trust that he'll "figure it out".

The third guy, Ron, struck me as pretty pragmatic about the immigration issue and probably always knew that Trump's promises of deportation and walls were never gonna happen.

I just know that if Trump just read Hillary Clinton's platform on immigration they'd support him and swear up and down she actually stole the idea from him. Hell, he has two months to transform his entire platform to be identical to Clinton's and his supporters will still support him. I'm so frightened that sexism runs so deep that his big con will actually work.
posted by like_neon at 2:15 AM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


Poll: Trump, Clinton knotted in Missouri

Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are locked in a tight race for Missouri, according to the results of the latest Monmouth University poll of likely voters out Tuesday.
While 44 percent said they will vote for Trump, 43 percent indicated a preference for Clinton, with 8 percent choosing Libertarian nominee Gary Johnson. Another 1 percent said they would vote for another candidate, while 5 percent said they are currently undecided.

posted by petebest at 5:20 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


For the record.l, I believe Arlie Hochschild coined the term "emotional labor," and if not she was the first academic social scientist to write seriously about it (in "The Managed Heart"). She's great!

And this left me wondering:
The things we're making are pretty antithetical to a war-state.

Bicycles? Plowshares?
posted by spitbull at 5:21 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


It's the Bernie and Jane show, starring Jeff Weaver!
posted by spitbull at 5:23 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


I feel if we achieve nothing else this year we could at least get Corb's dad some decent military sf to read.

OK but do it by 12/31 because as soon as the ball drops we are never speaking of this year again.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:53 AM on August 24, 2016 [43 favorites]


Let's get over this speedbump, and put it past us. Make it decisive. Make it a mandate.

this, this and oh yeah before I forget, this.
posted by lampshade at 5:56 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


And now news from the Far Right:

The Daily Beast has an interesting report out that says Trump's campaign used $55,000 in campaign funds to buy 3,500 copies of his book, "Crippled America" to hand out at the RNC. They paid full price for the book at Barnes and Noble stores rather than buy directly at a discount from the publisher. This was undoubtedly an attempt to push the book on to the NYTimes Best Selling List (it didn't work.) Unfortunately for Trump this would be illegal under the FEC laws if he collects the royalties from thuse sales.

All of you who live in Michigan should be wary next Tuesday 4:00 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. as Breitbart has announced that "Flash Mobs for Trump" will be assembling at 15 mystery locations around the state to wave flags and other Trump merchandise. How this will lead to votes come election day eludes me.

on the other hand, if you are in Raleigh this Saturday, volunteers from the local Democratic Party will be registering people to vote at the Caribbean Festival downtown. Should be more fun than a flash mob and with tastier food, too.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:05 AM on August 24, 2016 [20 favorites]


I just know that if Trump just read Hillary Clinton's platform on immigration they'd support him and swear up and down she actually stole the idea from him. Hell, he has two months to transform his entire platform to be identical to Clinton's and his supporters will still support him. I'm so frightened that sexism runs so deep that his big con will actually work.
posted by like_neon at 5:15 AM on August 24

Don't despair, read Josh Marshall's take on the immigration walk back: Dazed and Confused
It's seldom good when a campaign's supporters can't figure out where the campaign stands on a given issue. It's never good when the campaign itself can't figure out where the campaign stands on a given issue. It's seems ridiculous and adrift.

There's always a temptation with the Trump campaign to uncover some strategy behind what seems on the surface to be scattered, erratic or foolish. But Trump's Razor counsels against this. The truth is the Trump team has no idea what they're doing. Pundits may need a few days to unravel this. But this is at best simply an effort to play for time.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:10 AM on August 24, 2016 [7 favorites]


He's at the center of a vast global web of financial relationships. He owes a fortune to institutions at home and overseas," Kaine added.

Good start. "Vast global web of debt to China and Russia" scans better, but hey. Don't give up the momentum to this bush-league 'tough on crime' malarkey.*

Also thanks to decades of evil from the right and hapless yammering from NPR, Reagan's crooked incompetence won't play but what about Nixon? Obvioulsy vastly more competent in politics than the Unhinged Pig, but they're both scammy, unctuous, salesmen. NIXON/TRUMP 1972.

*heh. See whati did there
posted by petebest at 6:10 AM on August 24, 2016


Cheeto Nixon. Available for parties, weddings, bar mitzvahs, RNC nominee.
posted by petebest at 6:13 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Uh oh someone forgot to feed Ben Carson his lines. He went on Morning Joe this morning and stated that anyone elderly running for President should "expose" their medical records-- including Trump.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:14 AM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


The truth is the Trump team has no idea what they're doing.

I totally agree, but the Trump campaign has already shown they are not above plagiarising, who's to say they won't steal Clinton's platform and sell it as their own? His supporters don't seem to be able to tell the difference between genuine vs. cheap knockoffs.
posted by like_neon at 6:14 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Assuming he was willing and able to swing all the way over to Clinton, he would still be losing at least one conservative for every one of the unicorn moderate undecided votes he gained.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:19 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Uh oh someone forgot to feed Ben Carson his lines. He went on Morning Joe this morning......

oh lawdy....not again??

excuse me now. i have to get back to my wheat fields.
posted by lampshade at 6:22 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


Cher is on Lawrence O'Donnell and it's amazing.

Cher slams Trump’s ‘disingenuous’ promises to gay fans: ‘My people will not believe him’
posted by palindromic at 6:23 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


"Flash Mobs for Trump

*AHEM!* (points at "NO GODWINNING" sign)
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:25 AM on August 24, 2016 [9 favorites]


If nothing else comes out of this election but the legend of Ben Carson, idiot neurosurgeon for Jesus, it will still be a great boon for American novelists and scriptwriters.

If you invented his character no one would buy it.
posted by spitbull at 6:25 AM on August 24, 2016 [23 favorites]


Ben Carson was only friends with Trump because Donald once referred to his "pyramid schemes" and wacky misunderstandings ensued
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:26 AM on August 24, 2016 [21 favorites]


"Flash Mobs for Trump"
posted by spitbull at 6:29 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Cher slams Trump’s ‘disingenuous’ promises to gay fans: ‘My people will not believe him’

The Chers for Clinton made me smile.
posted by peeedro at 6:30 AM on August 24, 2016 [9 favorites]


"Flash Mobs for Trump

*AHEM!* (points at "NO GODWINNING" sign)


Fash Mobs?
posted by Artw at 6:31 AM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


Flesh Mobs
posted by cashman at 6:37 AM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


According to their campaign manager of the week, All the Trump voters are actually undercover

(But they can't say how much of a difference those undercover voters actually account for, because reasons...)
posted by strange chain at 6:46 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


"Flash mob" is so played out let's take it and turn it, what about mmmmm "Lightning Squad!" Yeah! And everyone gets a t shirt with the Lightning logo! Whoo" [Fake, so far]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:47 AM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


I feel if we achieve nothing else this year we could at least get Corb's dad some decent military sf to read.

The Ancillary series fits the bill perfectly, and would serve as a pretty good counterpoint.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:48 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'd suggest the John Scalzi Old Man's War books.
posted by Artw at 6:53 AM on August 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


The Ancillary series fits the bill perfectly, and would serve as a pretty good counterpoint.

I'd disagree. Not that I'm saying that they are remotely bad books - but they aren't at all where I'd jump to off bad MilSF. Instead it would be the Vorkosigan Saga and the Serrano Legacy. Both by liberal authors back when Jim Baen was running Baen Books (i.e. when they were being run by someone who liked entertaining books and happened to be right wing rather than vise-versa) and with protagonists that would be much easier for someone used to MilSF to get their head into.
posted by Francis at 6:57 AM on August 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


Yep, Artw nailed it: mail him the first couple books at least.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:58 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


spitbullThe things we're making are pretty antithetical to a war-state.

Bicycles? Plowshares?


Essentially really expensive toys.

As expected, a lot of chatter about the Trump stump in Austin, on the radio this morning. No clue what, if any, impact it may have, but a lot of people just seem to be scratching their heads about the whole thing.
posted by rp at 7:00 AM on August 24, 2016


Pretty sure she said it was actually gor, but gor isn't a meme, and anyway this is a derail and these threads are too long already so we should try not to clutter things up.
posted by fomhar at 7:02 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


In this feint, Trump solves a white male problem of pride. Benefits? If you need them, okay. He masculinizes it.

I don't accept this formulation. To say Trump masculinizes the idea of accepting government services is to insult men. And women, for that matter.

As I see it, he provides a false pretext for avoiding or countering shame some people might otherwise feel, by legitimizing the idea of exploiting government for personal ends, which he does in direct and indirect ways.
posted by perspicio at 7:02 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


white tshirt protest lady from the Austin rally, in "Jesus Wouldn't Vote Trump" shirt (brilliant)

trucker hat guy from earlier in the rally with less of a forgiving message for Trump.
posted by petebest at 7:07 AM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


"Lightning Squad!"

BlitzTwëeten, surely.
posted by petebest at 7:09 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


I doubt that Jesus would make it past the extreme vetting - so no voting for Jesus.
posted by Golem XIV at 7:10 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


that picture of the truck hat guy is freaking scary
look at those people baying after him. and when Trump loses, all those rabidly angry people are going to shrug and look to Pinterest to see what they do next?
I don't think so
posted by angrycat at 7:12 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


From Josh Marshall's Dazed and Confused:
This is a campaign on its third leadership team, with the latest a two headed monster made up of a white nationalist crank and a GOP pollster who was until recently a proponent of getting the GOP behind immigration reform. They're far behind with eleven weeks to go before the election trying to figure out some way to stop losing. There's a well-known word for campaigns that try to completely upend their entire message and policy menu with 80 days to go before an election. They're called "losing campaigns."

Step back for a moment from the Trumpite word salad and you'll realize all of this is true.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:13 AM on August 24, 2016 [18 favorites]


When Trump was on O'Reilly Monday night he claimed he could stop violence in Chicago in one week:

"I know police in Chicago," Trump said on the show. "If they were given the authority to do it, they would get it done."
When O'Reilly pushed for specifics, Trump went on to say that when he was in Chicago once he met some "very top police" who assured him they could stop the violence in one week. "And I believed him 100 percent," Trump said. "Tough police tactics," (though he didn't explain what he meant by that exactly), Trump said, would get the job done. When O'Reilly countered that a police officer doesn't have the authority to just beat people up and arrest them without cause, Trump doubled down.
"I could see by the way [this unspecified 'top cop'] was dealing with his people, he was a rough, tough guy. They respected him greatly," he said. "I said, 'How do you think you do it?' He said, 'Mr. Trump, within one week, we could stop much of this horror show that's going on.'

Yeah the same as it ever was from today's Sun-Times:
CPD spokesman Frank Giancamilli said Tuesday that no such conversation took place.

“No one in the senior command at CPD has ever met with Donald Trump or a member of his campaign,” Giancamilli said.

'Trump spokeswoman Hope Hicks on Tuesday clarified that it was during Trump’s visit “in the spring,” presumably his March trip that included a rally at University of Illinois at Chicago that was canceled because of security concerns by the GOP candidate. Trump has said that the rally was shut down at the request of CPD, a claim interim Supt. John Escalante immediately said was false.'
posted by readery at 7:14 AM on August 24, 2016 [67 favorites]


mochapickle: Mark Burns, tapping his bare wrist: "Not on my watch!"

Idioms! (not really SFW - yeah, I'm just getting on board with Archer)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:15 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]






angrycat - I've been thinking it would be a great idea for people to volunteer to observe on Election Day and night not just at polling places, but at women's clinics, black churches, synagogues, and other places that are not involved but are vulnerable to dudes with "economic anxiety." I don't mean open-carrying and looking for trouble; I mean just existing, to deter the cowardly and call the authorities if necessary.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:19 AM on August 24, 2016 [9 favorites]


Another Talking Points Memo article: Trump is Wally George, a sort of proto-Morton Downey Jr.

If you were anyone watching Wally George in the early 80s, you watch these viral videos from the Trump rallies and think "Ahh, yep, I totally remember this." The common denominator of blonde/grey/dyed helmet hair is only an additional touch. Indeed, the Trump rally game is almost old hat if you've seen Wally George, pro-wrestling or Roller Derby. Only this time it's a show revolving around the guy who is almost certainly going to be the Republican nominee for President. And it is playing out on an infinitely bigger stage, with an overlay of resentment and desire for payback that puts it in an altogether different league.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:22 AM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


Trump’s Vision of Black America Is a White Supremacist Fantasy.

Trump ... has made his pitch to lily-white audiences in towns and neighborhoods with few black residents. And for good reason. Trump is never going to win more than a token percentage of black voters. If he wants the White House, he’ll need to persuade as many white voters as possible, and a visible commitment to diversity is one way to win over a certain class of right-leaning, suburban whites.
posted by rory at 7:22 AM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


“I can’t discuss it,” she said. “It’s a project we’re doing internally. I call it the undercover Trump voter, but it’s real.”

Kimberly Conway, from strange chain's link above. I love how "but it's real " is a perfectly normal thing for the Trump campaign to append to a statement to the press.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 7:28 AM on August 24, 2016 [9 favorites]




Kellyanne Conway, not Kimberly.
posted by zutalors! at 7:32 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


“I can’t discuss it,” she said. “It’s a project we’re doing internally. I call it the undercover Trump voter, but it’s real.”

CPD spokesman Frank Giancamilli said Tuesday that no such conversation took place.


I know lying is second nature to these people (KellyAnne Conway, Trump, Bannon, Hope Hicks, etc.) but do they ever think about the long term consequences? Do they ever have the thought that lying like this, just telling flat out falsehoods will have repercussions? I know it's a ridiculous question, but I wonder sometimes, especially as someone who deals in ethics, whether they have any conscience at all or if they are utterly bereft of it.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:39 AM on August 24, 2016 [22 favorites]


Ah, you're right, zutalors! Time to rethink my "posting on a crowd train, how hard can it be?" attitude.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 7:40 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


And for those in the crowd like me, who will be dumb enough to watch and be angered, Conway will be on Rachel Maddow's show tonight.
posted by cashman at 7:44 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


When O'Reilly countered that a police officer doesn't have the authority to just beat people up and arrest them without cause, Trump doubled down.

"What do you have to lose?" Civil Rights! Say it again, Civil Rights!
posted by puddledork at 7:55 AM on August 24, 2016 [7 favorites]


Sam Wang at Princeton has Clinton at 96% odds to win.

We are now at such a state with the polling that when FiveThirtyEight gives Clinton 86% odds my first thought is "Damn, that's low."
posted by rorgy at 7:58 AM on August 24, 2016 [19 favorites]


Sorry if this isn't allowed, but can anyone give me context on this? Is this real?
posted by gucci mane at 8:00 AM on August 24, 2016


I normally watch Rachel Maddow anyway. Rachel makes it a point not to interrupt her interviewees. It happens from time to time, but Maddow specifically tries not to interrupt them. So I know Conway will be able to get off a bunch of lies, half truths, deliberate misdirections and some flat out whoppers when she appears.

It's maddening because Rachel is brilliant. I mean it's her show so she can run it how she likes, but I have a hard time believing that she couldn't flat out have a field day with Conway. It's like when Rachel talks to or is on a panel with Nicole Wallace. Nicole interrupts Rachel, talks over Rachel, and often ignores what Rachel is saying or asking. And then at the end of it, Rachel is just so pleased with Wallace.

But Rachel knows her shit. She'll go through a lengthy intro on her show, detailing facts and tying obscure things into a coherent narrative and introducing depth into a subject. But I hate how Rachel opts for civility over confrontation so many times. It's probably because I hate when I do that personally. But at some point, Rachel just has to go in guns blazing. This isn't a joke. This is not a game. As much as I love when she gives me the news and also makes me crack up laughing, like she was doing as she covered each Republican dropping out of the race one by one, poof by poof, it's time to close this out.

Conway spits so many untruths and plays so many games, Rachel should be able to twist her into a knot of lies and make an example out of Conway. I'm sure MSNBC doesn't want that, because they feel like it would mean they would have no shot at interviewing Trump himself, which they clearly want. But at some point you have to look at how history is going to judge you. There is a great evil rising, and if you have the chance to stomp it out, to send it back into its hole decisively, you have to at least try. Perhaps Conway being crushed on national television wouldn't do it, and Rachel would save the finishing blow for Trump himself. All I know is that it is tough to watch Conway say ridiculous things uninterrupted, but watch her turn right around and interrupt Maddow. And the "we report, you decide" way things will be presented is not useful at this time.
posted by cashman at 8:03 AM on August 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


I know lying is second nature to these people (KellyAnne Conway, Trump, Bannon, Hope Hicks, etc.) but do they ever think about the long term consequences? Do they ever have the thought that lying like this, just telling flat out falsehoods will have repercussions? I know it's a ridiculous question, but I wonder sometimes, especially as someone who deals in ethics, whether they have any conscience at all or if they are utterly bereft of it.

Some people do have little or no conscience. I've worked with people like this and as someone who does have one I've found it super difficult to deal with because it's just so foreign. Lying for them seems to be just a tool in their toolbox that they'll use if they see it to their benefit. Some are better then other at sussing out the longer term consequences and factor it into whatever cost benefit analysis that goes on in their heads.
posted by Jalliah at 8:03 AM on August 24, 2016 [10 favorites]


Do they ever have the thought that lying like this, just telling flat out falsehoods will have repercussions? I

For them? It never has before.
posted by Artw at 8:05 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


Sorry if this isn't allowed, but can anyone give me context on this? Is this real?

What do you think?
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:06 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


The Austin Chronicle tries out nine reasons Trump's in the city.

As it freely admits, none of them makes sense.

It's 75 days to the election. A day spent doing nothing constructive wastes 1.3 percent of time left.
posted by Devonian at 8:07 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


does anyone know when the first episode of the Greg Nog and corb campaign for Hillary podcast goes up
posted by beerperson at 8:07 AM on August 24, 2016 [19 favorites]


Sorry if this isn't allowed, but can anyone give me context on this? Is this real?

Real

Army Training Lesson Cited Clinton as 'Insider' Threat Risk

The unclassified slide, which first emerged on a Facebook page that spoofs the military, was confirmed by a U.S. military officials, who said it was used as part of a lesson on how to secure classified materials and improve safety.

A spokesperson from the Army's Training and Doctrine Command said the slide was developed 18 months ago.

"As is common with Army training requirements, the local unit was given latitude to develop their own training products to accomplish the overall training objective," the spokesperson said in a statement.

"This particular presentation had not been reviewed or approved by the unit's leadership, and does not reflect the position of the Army. The training presentation has since been removed."

posted by Jalliah at 8:07 AM on August 24, 2016 [11 favorites]


Sorry if this isn't allowed, but can anyone give me context on this? Is this real?

Context via Fox News: US Army confirms Hillary Clinton photo used in training slide for handling classified information
The US Army confirms that a soldier used a photo of Hillary Clinton in an official training slide over a year ago about proper handling of classified information.Clinton’s photo was listed alongside Fort Hood Shooter Nidal Hasan, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden, Navy Yard shooter Alex Alexis, and General David Petraeus. Maj. Thomas G. Campbell III, a US Army spokesperson confirmed the incident in an email to Fox News:

"We have confirmed that the slide was developed 18 months ago and used locally as a part of a training presentation on best practices for handling classified material and maintaining operational security. As is common with Army training requirements, the local unit was given latitude to develop their own training products to accomplish the overall training objective. This particular presentation had not been reviewed or approved by the unit's leadership, and does not reflect the position of the Army. The training presentation has since been removed."
'Real,' but in the sense that 'back in early 2015, one person made this slide and used it in a training session on how to handle classified information for some other people in their unit, without the approval or authorization or endorsement of the military as a whole, or even in part.'

It's 'real' in the sense that it exists, but it's not 'real' in the sense that it represents anything of significance beyond 'one person made a slide once and it was terrible.' It's being reported by a fair number of right-leaning places as 'the army once did this.' That is not real. The Army did not do this. One person did this.
posted by cjelli at 8:09 AM on August 24, 2016 [27 favorites]


Sorry if this isn't allowed, but can anyone give me context on this? Is this real?

Given what I've seen about how military training powerpoints get made, I see no reason why it wouldn't be real in the sense of "someone affiliated with the Army made a powerpoint presentation about security, and presented it in a training session."

But it's not like training decks are submitted for approval or vetted or anything that could lead you to believe that any random slide has any sort of "official" sanction. The presenter could be a private or specialist or a civilian contractor, or any other of the 10s of thousands of folks who get tasked with making slide decks.

And all that being said, the slide is not wrong. Best case scenario from the FBI report is that Clinton was "careless." Putting her on a slide with Manning and Petraeus isn't totally out of line (though poor timing, politically)
posted by sparklemotion at 8:10 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


> the Vorkosigan Saga and the Serrano Legacy

I'd forward Jack Campbell's The Lost Fleet series as a more gentle ideological transition. The old ways really are the better (after a century of decadence), rightful mistrust of politicians/political structures, honour and duty in the armed forces, and the main protagonist is competence porn writ large and well. However women serve, command, govern, and rule effectively. Unrestrained corporatism is also villified and the thought experiment is brought to it's logical conclusion. The militaria is high grade, too.
posted by porpoise at 8:10 AM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


Trump's in Tampa this afternoon (Mar-a-Lago) and Jackson, MS tonight (fundraiser, basically) then back east. Nigel Farage will be there, as will chief Brexit dodgy lying moneybags Arron Banks. I can't even make a joke about that.
posted by holgate at 8:15 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


And all that being said, the slide is not wrong. Best case scenario from the FBI report is that Clinton was "careless." Putting her on a slide with Manning and Petraeus isn't totally out of line (though poor timing, politically)

Even given that, many other politicians should also be on that slide seeing as how apparently they have their own private email servers.

It's commonly known that many military personnel do not like Democrats, so I'm not really that surprised she ended up on such a slide in an Army training.
posted by numaner at 8:17 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yeah, if I had a nickel for every time I put together a slide presentation with "funny" stuff in it that I knew my CO would kill, I could buy a cup of coffee. If I had a dollar for every time one of those slides "accidentally" made it by my CO, I could buy... several more cups of coffee.

Believe me, that slide is so far down the list of objectionable things I've seen or heard about Hillary Clinton in the U.S. Army over the last 25 years.
posted by Etrigan at 8:17 AM on August 24, 2016 [22 favorites]




Yeah, if I had a nickel for every time I put together a slide presentation with "funny" stuff in it that I knew my CO would kill, I could buy a cup of coffee. If I had a dollar for every time one of those slides "accidentally" made it by my CO, I could buy... several more cups of coffee.

Yeah, of all things this election, breathless reporting of some NCO's Sergeants' Time training slides is one of the ones I find the most surreal.

I totally would have made this slide! It wakes up your junior guys and lets them both har har and maybe also think. I promise you nobody, NOBODY thought this was going to be reported in the newspaper.

(Sidebar: thanks guys on the book suggestions. Election threads: always a giver!)
posted by corb at 8:26 AM on August 24, 2016 [16 favorites]


Poll: Trump, Clinton knotted in Missouri

I've been telling guys like Trump to go get knotted for years.
 
posted by Herodios at 8:29 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Putting her on a slide with Manning and Petrae