Peace and Quiet and Open Air / Wait for Us / Somewhere
August 22, 2016 6:00 AM   Subscribe

76 trombones days to go in the 2016 U.S. Presidential election and the candidates have a lot on their minds: Clinton makes a $95 million ad buy; Trump and his band of Steves yearn for calmer days when they'll be able to discuss Morning Joe gossip in peace, as Minion "9/11" Rudy spreads Clinton conspiracy theories; Egg McMuffin continues to do his thing.
posted by sallybrown (3287 comments total) 92 users marked this as a favorite
 
Neurotic and not very bright? Look in the mirror. https://t.co/FPaqGW9JWv

— Joe Scarborough (@JoeNBC) August 22, 2016

Trump Gets Personal In Gloves-Off Attack On 'Morning Joe' Co-Hosts
posted by waitingtoderail at 6:08 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Now that the Olympics are over, how long until we get another Trump Tantrum?
posted by Tevin at 6:09 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]




Keep in mind this is the same Morning Joe that had Jason Chaffetz on this morning and let him smear around his BS about the Clinton email issue without interruption. If Donald was smarter...well, he isn't.
posted by sallybrown at 6:11 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Trump Gets Personal In Gloves-Off Attack On 'Morning Joe' Co-Hosts

But... but... The pivot!

I guess any real pivot away from being a tantrum throwing mess is going to involve the Breitbart guy physically taking his phone and throwing it into the ocean.
posted by Artw at 6:14 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


NPR: Research Challenges Assumptions On Why Voters Support Trump

In which Tamara Keith interviews Trump supporters and tries really hard not to point out that their racist opinions are racist.
posted by Gelatin at 6:17 AM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


This morning I'm finding it so interesting that Trump insists on doing such a significant amount of tweeting. We joke about taking the phone away, but obviously he sees it as an advantage.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 6:23 AM on August 22, 2016


WSJ: Business Economists Say Hillary Clinton Is Best for the Economy
"In a NABE survey, 55% say Hillary Clinton would do the best job, while Donald Trump comes in third"

Johnson beats him 15-14.
posted by chris24 at 6:24 AM on August 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


76 days to go and I'm still waiting for my Hillary merch :/
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:26 AM on August 22, 2016 [22 favorites]


Me too! I never even got my Woman Card.
posted by sallybrown at 6:27 AM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Did you get a woman card?
posted by thelonius at 6:27 AM on August 22, 2016


76 days to go and I'm still waiting for my Hillary merch :/

it works on both metaphorical and literal levels
posted by entropicamericana at 6:28 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Keep in mind this is the same Morning Joe that had Jason Chaffetz on this morning and let him smear around his BS about the Clinton email issue without interruption. If Donald was smarter...well, he isn't.

As we've established, peddling racism, lies or worse is A-OK with most of the media as long as you don't personally offend them. We should be thankful that Trump is this stupid.
posted by indubitable at 6:29 AM on August 22, 2016 [23 favorites]


Me too! I never even got my Woman Card.

I got mine! Also a sticker.
posted by peacheater at 6:32 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Those of you who have done volunteering, is it okay to just do a couple hours of an all-day event? Because I have entire days to spend on any one thing precisely never but I do have a couple hours here and there. There's voter reg for students moving in to the university I work at this Thursday and I just happen to have time after work (which I normally don't, but circumstances are aligning this week) but the thing goes from like 10 AM until 7 PM.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:34 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


This isn't about trombones. It's more vocal...

Donald Trump is the political equivalent of Florence Foster Jenkins: Able to buy himself onto the great stage, and so tone-deaf that everybody comes to watch in horror.
posted by Namlit at 6:34 AM on August 22, 2016 [25 favorites]


76 days to go and I'm still waiting for my Hillary merch :/

I want to thank everyone giving heads-up about the delivery times for the merch. I've decided to order a hoodie instead of a tee.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:41 AM on August 22, 2016 [19 favorites]




There's voter reg for students moving in to the university I work at this Thursday and I just happen to have time after work (which I normally don't, but circumstances are aligning this week) but the thing goes from like 10 AM until 7 PM.
I'm sure it would be fine! I would be very surprised if anyone stayed that entire time apart from the main organizers. The only thing I would think about is if they are likely to get a lot of volunteers just when everyone gets out of work - but then there are also likely to be more people to register at that time, so it would probably work out fine. Also you are on a college campus so things are likely to be different anyway. The phone banking runs from 10 am to 9 pm at the Boston location, but people only come for a couple hours at a time. You might want to send a note to the organizer to double check.
posted by peacheater at 6:42 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


76 days to go and I'm still waiting for my Hillary merch :/

I just emailed the shop about this, because I'm changing my address of September 1st! I ordered mine on July 30th - a girls just want to have fun-damental rights tote, a woman card, and two packs of the playing cards.
posted by dinty_moore at 6:42 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yes, Soren, I'm sure the organizer would be happy to have whatever help they can get. If you can get in touch with them before hand to see if there's a specific role you can fill for that specific time, I think it would be even better. But yeah, you're a volunteer, offering your labor for free. They will be grateful no matter how much time you can give.
posted by Tevin at 6:43 AM on August 22, 2016


I'm finding it so interesting that Trump insists on doing such a significant amount of tweeting. We joke about taking the phone away, but obviously he sees it as an advantage.

I think it's more that the restricted Twitter format works with his famously short attention span.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:45 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


I thought about posting this to green but maybe it's worth a shot here - are there any sites that centralize all rebuttals to anti-Clinton talking points? Just like a one-stop shop for this sort of thing so I don't have to google and wade through a bunch of garbage? A resource like that would be tremendous. There is this, but it's about year old.
posted by windbox at 6:45 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Trumpism may be here to stay

Well duh, though I call it by its other name, "the bulk of the Republican Party prior to Trunps presidential bid". Doesn't roll off the tongue in the same way though.
posted by Artw at 6:46 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


are there any sites that centralize all rebuttals to anti-Clinton talking points?

Snopes has been working pretty well for me.
posted by Etrigan at 6:47 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


I've been thinking about that too. I wonder if we can compile one ourselves. There are no people I trust more to cut through all the BS (and still be fair) than Metafilter people.
posted by peacheater at 6:47 AM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Well duh, though I call it by its other name, "the bulk of the Republican Party prior to Trunps presidential bid". Doesn't roll off the tongue in the same way though.

Breaking news! Tribalism, racism, xenophobia and nationalism are here to stay! (And in fact have been here all along.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:47 AM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


I thought about posting this to green but maybe it's worth a shot here - are there any sites that centralize all rebuttals to anti-Clinton talking points? Just like a one-stop shop for this sort of thing so I don't have to google and wade through a bunch of garbage? A resource like that would be tremendous. There is this, but it's about year old.

Correct the Record. It's a little slow and not often wonkish enough for me but a good start.
posted by Francis at 6:48 AM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Oh thank god and sallybrown, a new thread!

I do like that Donald Trump gives the assholes who run Twitter something else to feel bad about
posted by schadenfrau at 6:49 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Snopes has been working pretty well for me.

I don't think I can count anymore the number of right-leaning family members and acquaintances who have decided based on how often Trump says something that Snopes can demonstrably prove is false...that Snopes must be untrustworthy and biased.
posted by thegears at 6:49 AM on August 22, 2016 [66 favorites]


There are some people (a disturbing number of people) for whom any source that attempts to fact check and debunk falsehoods will automatically get labeled biased. That's the "bringing facts to a feelings fight" problem.

The people open to fact-checking are going to be D-leaning undecideds who "just don't like Hillary" or feel that she's "just not trustworthy." Don't waste your time with hard core Trumpists. He makes them feel powerful and safe in the arms of a strongman autocrat, you can't fight that with facts.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:54 AM on August 22, 2016 [50 favorites]


Correct the Record. It's a little slow and not often wonkish enough for me but a good start.

CTR is a good resource if you want to get some talking points, but it's important to note that it's an official arm of the Clinton campaign which makes it essentially a propaganda vehicle (i use that word carefully) and, in the eyes of the people you'd be trying to correct, a bunch of lies that can't be trusted. Snopes is a great source but as thegears noted, once Snopes challenges something they've heard elsewhere touted as fact, a moment of cognitive dissonance occurs. They can decide that the sources they've relied on are lie-peddling con-artists, or they can decide that Snopes is itself a biased propaganda arm of the liberal establishment and can't be trusted.
posted by dis_integration at 7:00 AM on August 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


You can't reason somebody out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
posted by signal at 7:05 AM on August 22, 2016 [68 favorites]


...Snopes must be untrustworthy and biased...

Yeah, a relative of mine posted on facebook the new Hillary Clinton Murdered a Guy thing. Not Vince Foster. She murdered a new guy. Anyhoo, the post had zero citations or links to sources or anything, and was written by a person calling themselves "Tyler Durden" [not fake! I mean obviously that name is fake, but they actually use that pseudonymn.] So I posted a Snopes article debunking it. So the relative said "Right. I should trust Snopes?" And I said "Well, the author uses their real name and they have links to the articles that they refer to. So you can at least know who it is that you're trusting or not trusting based on whether you think their sources are good."

And he said "You're right! Thank you for encouraging me to use critical thinking skills." [fake.]

Actually, he said "Tyler Durden is using a fake name because Hillary has people killed. All those links in Snopes go to Mainstream Media. Can't trust them."

[real. sigh.]
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:06 AM on August 22, 2016 [85 favorites]


Skorgu had a great answer in the last thread, about conversations with people who fight facts. "Just remember the magic words: "What would convince you of X?"
"It's respectful and polite, it's easy to remember, it puts the focus on the person you're talking to instead of the side they're supporting, and best of all it only has three possible outcomes:

1. An actual answer. This never happens but if it somehow does it means you're talking about something concrete that the other person came up with. Either it's something reasonable that you can demonstrate (and enjoy the acrobatics as they're now arguing with themselves) or something that can't be demonstrated (in which case you can talk about why their burden of proof is so high).

2. "Nothing will convince me." Well, ok. Why are we talking about this then? If you've already made up your mind let's not waste everyone's time.

3. Literally Any Other Response. Resist the urge to gloat because your opponent has given you a big stick with which to beat them. Either they give something like an answer in which case GOTO 10, they demonstrate that they're not arguing in good faith by refusing to meet your extremely reasonable request in which case you have a polite way out of the conversation or they just ghost on you in which case you got the last word.

As an aside, it's instructive to turn this on your own beliefs."
posted by cashman at 7:07 AM on August 22, 2016 [130 favorites]


I mentioned this in the last thread but don't bring facts to a feelings fight. Basically nobody is carefully weighing pros and cons to form an opinion. Politics is tribal and emotional, even more so in this post-factual era.

Try some conversational judo: ask what would convince them to change their minds. If there's nothing, don't waste everyone's time. If they have something, no matter how unreasonabl, now you're on a solid factual basis that they explicitly endorsed. If they refuse to answer they've proven bad faith to whatever audience and you can walk away head held high.

Edit: That'll teach me not to preview.
posted by Skorgu at 7:08 AM on August 22, 2016 [72 favorites]


Just edit your post to say "I'm Skorgu, and I approve this message". [don't do that]
posted by cashman at 7:09 AM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Today's electoral forecast by Sam Wang:
  • Clinton 347, Trump 191 EV Meta-margin: Clinton +5.7%
  • Clinton Nov. win probability: random drift 92%, Bayesian 95%
  • Senate snapshot (49 polls): Dem+Ind: 51, GOP: 49, Meta-margin: D +2.7%
posted by Gelatin at 7:10 AM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


This might have already been mentioned in the previous thread, but Sam Wang of PEC appears to have tweaked his model. It now puts Clinton at 95%.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 7:11 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


jinx
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 7:11 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I do think the psychology behind this, while also being infuriating, is really interesting.

Is there any evidence that younger people are getting any better at using critical thinking vis-a-vis shit they read on the internet than the Olds? The transition from "media controlled by gatekeepers at least nominally" to "literally anyone can put anything directly in front of your eyeballs with no middle man" happened really fast and is a complete 180 from the way a lot of people were trained to read texts.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:14 AM on August 22, 2016 [34 favorites]


You can't reason somebody out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

I don't really give a shit if they can't be reasoned out, I just want to make them look like an idiot, publicly, so that undecideds can witness it and come closer to wanting to be on the right side of history. Nothing good comes from letting conspiracy theorists and "smart" Gary Johnson supporters have the last word and run roughshod posting garbage memes on social media completely unchallenged.
posted by windbox at 7:14 AM on August 22, 2016 [43 favorites]


SKORGU 2020
posted by benzenedream at 7:16 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


a mirror and an encyclopedia: "This might have already been mentioned in the previous thread, but Sam Wang of PEC appears to have tweaked his model. It now puts Clinton at 95%."

And yet we've got another 77 days of horse-race reporting to get through. And every time there's an outlier poll showing Trump gaining on Clinton, there's going to be a raft of hand-wringing articles about how she's blowing a sure thing.
posted by octothorpe at 7:18 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I can see some benefit to rhetorically tricking people into admitting their affinity for white nationalism.

But then I think about how truly terrifying it will be if all those Trump supporters and sympathizers actually did come out and say "yup, I'm a racialist, that's how I identify now," and I want to back away very, very slowly.

Has anyone seen anything -- essays, blogposts, whatever -- about how we're supposed to deal with this after the election? How do you curb the rise of racial or ethnic nationalism?
posted by schadenfrau at 7:20 AM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


Yeah, being polite when people say racist things and/or not wasting time confronting people who don't want to live in a fact-based reality is one of the reasons Trump has been so successful.
posted by VTX at 7:22 AM on August 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


As we've established, peddling racism, lies or worse is A-OK with most of the media as long as you don't personally offend them. We should be thankful that Trump is this stupid.

See the Ezra Klein article that boiled this down to 'journalists are clapping back at Trump because they're scared about what would happen to them if he got elected.'
posted by winna at 7:24 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'm going to have to get an extra supply of Ativan to make it through the next 76 days. Of course, I have only myself to blame for the anxiety. No one is actually forcing me to obsessively read this thread or research the alt-right or refresh 538 every hour.

Last night I was convinced for about half-an-hour that Holocaust denial was becoming mainstream. Someone get me an Ativan.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:24 AM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car
posted by Postroad at 7:26 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


soren_lorensen: Is there any evidence that younger people are getting any better at using critical thinking vis-a-vis shit they read on the internet than the Olds?

If Tumblr is anything to go by, fuck no.

Note: I'm 47 and a hard-core Tumblr user/lover, so I am not dissing the platform or the many ways it has been useful at spreading real news/explanations, but the young folks on my blogroll there will believe absolutely anything they see, especially if it comes with no sources whatsoever.
posted by tzikeh at 7:26 AM on August 22, 2016 [36 favorites]


Has anyone seen anything -- essays, blogposts, whatever -- about how we're supposed to deal with this after the election? How do you curb the rise of racial or ethnic nationalism?

Improve economic conditions for working people so that they don't descend into hatred and fear? This tribalism is partly a symptom of an economy that's leaving folks behind. Fix the economic insecurity and folks have bit more room in their hearts for acceptance.

Point out repeatedly that it's Un-American, and contrary to our most deeply held beliefs as a country? It's not like we haven't had to deal with it before. We beat George Wallace and Bull Connor and his ilk before, and back then they controlled a quarter of the country.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:27 AM on August 22, 2016 [19 favorites]


Postroad I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car

Wow, that's an incredibly shitty thing to do.
posted by tzikeh at 7:30 AM on August 22, 2016 [63 favorites]


It's dumb, too. I strongly deprecate people doing things to cars because of stickers but it's not like it doesn't happen. Coming out to your car with all four tires flat seems like a counter-productive trolling effort.
posted by winna at 7:31 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Me too! I never even got my Woman Card.

I think there was some mix-up, because I got a Woman Card that was clearly intended for someone else. I've tried emailing customer support about this and I hope they get back to me before I run out of vacation time ("a family emergency") or have to go bra shopping in some sort of 80s Freaky Friday montage.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:33 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


While driving through very rural west-central Ohio this weekend I saw a sign that read "I stand with Turnips" done up in the signature Trump font and formatting.

That seems to me like a far better troll.
posted by Tevin at 7:34 AM on August 22, 2016 [83 favorites]


Data point: I'm a lefty by any measure, and when I see a Trump sticker I don't get angry. I just think "what a dumbfuck."
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:34 AM on August 22, 2016 [124 favorites]


Well duh, though I call it by its other name, "the bulk of the Republican Party prior to Trunps presidential bid". Doesn't roll off the tongue in the same way though.

Yeah, it feels like people are thinking that Trump is a Republican with clown makeup on, when really... he is a Republican who has taken his clown makeup off.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 7:35 AM on August 22, 2016 [53 favorites]


I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car

So, racist cosplay then?
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:35 AM on August 22, 2016 [105 favorites]


Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I can't actually think of one single left-leaning person I know who would attack a person's car because of the stickers on it. I know I wouldn't, because destroying someone else's property because they have views I don't like? That's such a complete dick move, and only something an absolute drooling moron would do.

And that's why I don't put political stickers on my car. Because I fully expect Trump supporters to commit a crime against me for exercising my first amendment rights.
posted by palomar at 7:36 AM on August 22, 2016 [38 favorites]


Data point: I'm a lefty by any measure, and when I see a Trump sticker I don't get angry. I just think "what a dumbfuck."

I stay about half again as far away from them as I do other cars.
posted by Etrigan at 7:37 AM on August 22, 2016 [21 favorites]


Somebody ought to troll Trump into filming an unexpurgated day in the life -- "Hillary's sleeping, I'm at work!" -- so we can see him tapping away angry tweets at 4:29am en route to his 757.
posted by holgate at 7:38 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I dunno, palomar. I could see some kid doing it. It's not like dumb poor-impulse-control people are exclusively right-wing, more's the pity.
posted by winna at 7:38 AM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


I just finally watched that nytimes compilation video of Trump supporters shouting terrible things. I've read about all of those incidents, but it's so different actually seeing it on video. It brought me to tears.
posted by gerstle at 7:39 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Improve economic conditions for working people so that they don't descend into hatred and fear? This tribalism is partly a symptom of an economy that's leaving folks behind. Fix the economic insecurity and folks have bit more room in their hearts for acceptance.

Except it's not the people under economic distress who are Trumpists. Those aren't the people who train to attack the World Trade Center. (All of this paraphrases a JMM post I'll link below.) it's the people just close enough to the people who are suffering, but who still have quite a lot of privilege left to lose, who are angriest.

Here's the JMM TPM post.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:41 AM on August 22, 2016 [20 favorites]


I know it's become a campaign slogan, but Hope always Trumps Fear in our country. We're a nation of forward-looking optimists. Even in our darkest times, we know that things will get better. That we will overcome. Regardless of party, if you don't have a positive vision of the future that you can describe and argue for, you are not going to win. Reagan had Morning in America. Bush had a Thousand Points of Light. Clinton had a place called Hope. W had Compassionate Conservatism. Hillary has Stronger Together.

But Trump? Make America Great Again? It's implicit in that slogan that America isn't great now. Now a more talented politician could put a positive optimistic spin on that (c.f. Reagan), but Trump ain't that guy. A fear-based campaign has not, and will never work for the Presidency of "The Greatest Country On Earth."
posted by leotrotsky at 7:42 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


So, racist cosplay then?
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:35 AM on August 22 [9 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]


I think since any of the POC or women who see it wont know the difference and are thus just as scared when they see it, we can cross out the cosplay part
posted by schadenfrau at 7:43 AM on August 22, 2016 [49 favorites]


I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car
Thanks for making this country feel less safe for me and other non-white people.
posted by peacheater at 7:43 AM on August 22, 2016 [95 favorites]


schadenfrau: thanks for the link to that JMM article.

"But at its heart, simply as a matter of definitional clarity, that's what Trumpism is: the politics of white nationalism."
posted by sutt at 7:44 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I've found the 'what would change your mind?' tactic very useful in triaging creationists, although the toxic fallout of Dover seems to have kept them behind the castle walls of late. And run it on yourself; I know I'm a born liberal, and some of that is pure belief, and I know that in discussing or defending those bits I can do a better job by acknowledging that. It's not a crime to believe in a better world.

In all these things, it's not so much trying to directly convert people with fixed views - which does happen, but usually over long periods where unease leads to reflection and reassessment on their own terms and in their own time - but in maintaining a public discourse that demonstrates other modes of thought are possible and disagreement in good faith is not a personal attack.

There's a different dynamic during elections and the like, where ya gotta concentrate on doing what needs to be done to prevent disaster and foment success. Life during wartime.
posted by Devonian at 7:44 AM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


I don't put political stickers on my car because coworkers and random strangers treat you differently when you do. I'm happy with my presentational status quo.
posted by ardgedee at 7:45 AM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Right, like I said, I don't personally know anyone (not even kids, gasp!) that is stupid enough to commit a crime because they see a sticker they don't like. That's why I was careful to say that I can't speak for anyone else, because I guess other people know a bunch of left-leaning idiots who would do something like this.

If nothing else, this election cycle is making me grateful for the company I keep. I'm glad that I don't personally know anyone that fucking stupid.
posted by palomar at 7:46 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Is there any evidence that younger people are getting any better at using critical thinking vis-a-vis shit they read on the internet than the Olds? The transition from "media controlled by gatekeepers at least nominally" to "literally anyone can put anything directly in front of your eyeballs with no middle man" happened really fast and is a complete 180 from the way a lot of people were trained to read texts.

I think both younger people and older people rely on their friends and social networks to curate their news sources. The sources your friends share are the sources you trust.

But most people's social networks are not so insular that they never interact with someone outside their bubble. The biggest Breitbart fans will have noticed that their left-leaning friends do not take seriously their citations from Breitbart, and will often (in my experience) make an effort to find an NY Times story or something to support their claims about the Clinton foundation (or whatever) when arguing with people from outside their bubble.

I think this is kind of how things were in the early days of newspapers too; low barrier to entry. Rumors and gossip and opinion and urban legends. I think over time some sources develop a reputation for credibility when the issues they talk about actually do turn out to be issues, while the ones which warn that Obama is trying to take over Texas via Jade Helm or whatever take a hit.

I think that will continue to be true, and that the NY Times and Washington Post and etc. have a bit of an advantage in that they bring legacy credibility with them. That's why they can get away with putting up pay walls, but local newspaper can't. I actually think pay walls are starting to become a sign of credibility, and that this may be how the "how do we pay for journalism" problem shakes out. You pay not for the news, but for the credibility of the source you're getting it from. Of course that has the issue that it's hard to cite paywalled sources, but the very reason you'd want to pay for these is because you can cite them as sources... The 10 items a month thing is a pretty good solution to that.

tl;dr: People living in social "bubbles" are the reason BS "news" sources can survive, but as long as our bubbles aren't totally sealed, we'll probably be okay.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:46 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


"I don't put political stickers on my car because coworkers and random strangers treat you differently when you do."

That same logic applies to why I have no tattoos.
posted by sutt at 7:46 AM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


Except it's not the people under economic distress who are Trumpists. Those aren't the people who train to attack the World Trade Center. (All of this paraphrases a JMM post I'll link below.) it's the people just close enough to the people who are suffering, but who still have quite a lot of privilege left to lose, who are angriest.

Yeah, and it's not the proletariat that lead the revolution, it's the petite bourgeoisie. Robespierre was a lawyer.

Doesn't Matter. That misses the point.

It's not a coincidence that Father Coughlin and Huey Long were big in the 1930s and not the 1990s. When the economy is lifting all ships you don't see the rise of populist ethnic nationalism. Nobody wants to string up the immigrants when they've got a bright future and a full belly.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:50 AM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


I don't do political stickers either. If I learned nothing else from William S. Burroughs, it's that it can be very powerful to be unique, but look boring. Invisible gets a lot of leeway.
posted by blnkfrnk at 7:50 AM on August 22, 2016 [31 favorites]


I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car

I'd find that to be shitty immature behavior coming from a middle schooler, much less an ostensible adult.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 7:50 AM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


I think this is kind of how things were in the early days of newspapers too; low barrier to entry. Rumors and gossip and opinion and urban legends. I think over time some sources develop a reputation for credibility when the issues they talk about actually do turn out to be issues, while the ones which warn that Obama is trying to take over Texas via Jade Helm or whatever take a hit.

Maybe, but until then the yellow web is going to cause a lot of damage and confusion.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:55 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


And people say Trump has no ground game.

[real] 12-year-old running Trump campaign office in Colorado
posted by Spathe Cadet at 7:56 AM on August 22, 2016 [21 favorites]


In one of the most important counties in swing state Colorado, Donald Trump is relying on 12-year-old Weston Imer, who runs the Jefferson County operation for the Trump campaign.

"I just wish he'd tone down the name-calling and the insults. It's so immature."
posted by leotrotsky at 7:58 AM on August 22, 2016 [23 favorites]


[real] 12-year-old running Trump campaign office in Colorado

I actually held my breath when I clicked that, I was so afraid it was my county. (It's not.)
posted by mochapickle at 7:59 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car

Congrats, you've successfully angered a bunch of lefties just by mentioning it.
posted by dis_integration at 8:00 AM on August 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


I'd find that to be shitty immature behavior coming from a middle schooler, much less an ostensible adult.

All u troll feeders, puh-leeze: consider the source, a part of geological history here as in irl, school up, lighten up.
See also: uncle, basement.
posted by y2karl at 8:00 AM on August 22, 2016 [20 favorites]


My sister (who is comfortably well-off by the way, thanks to her husband working for Halliburton, so is not motivated by the economy) texted me anti-Hilary screeds late night this weekend and I have decided to assume she was drunk-texting and act like I didn't get them. She has always been a racist who lives out in the boonies because she only wants to see white people, so it's not like I was surprised. My big hope is that her usual political disconnection will mean she just doesn't bother to vote.
posted by emjaybee at 8:00 AM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


Normally I don't do bumper stickers either for the "better to be invisible" reasons mentioned above. But then I saw a Trump/Pence sticker on a shitty old pickup truck in my work parking lot and decided it couldn't stand unchecked (there are thousands of cars in the parking lot at work, very few have political stickers). So I went online and rage-ordered woman cards for my wife, mom, and sister (these went over really well!) and a bumper sticker for my car. It took me a week to work up the nerve to actually put it on my car, but it's on there and so far no vandalism to report.

TL;DR: this year's republican candidate is so odious that a bumper sticker-shunning voter made an exception.
posted by strange chain at 8:05 AM on August 22, 2016 [21 favorites]


Congrats, you've successfully angered a bunch of lefties just by mentioning it.

Dang, son, I don't see anyone being angry. Me, I'm just bemused.
posted by winna at 8:07 AM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


I got my lawn sign on Friday and put it up to rebut the 2 (two!) Trump/Pence homes on my quiet suburban Los Angeles street. So far, no vandalism to report, thankfully.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:08 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


> a bumper sticker-shunning voter made an exception.
Get yer bumper stickers here
posted by farlukar at 8:10 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Congrats, you've successfully angered a bunch of lefties just by mentioning it.

I'm gonna lose the rest of my morning looking for the perfect eyeroll gif.
posted by Etrigan at 8:10 AM on August 22, 2016 [20 favorites]


In my very-red, gun-loving state I would never judge anyone for eschewing stickers. In a small town, especially, it might feel dangerous to do. Or at least lead to hassles.

However, I decided it was worth it to put a Hilary sticker on my car. So far, no vandalism, but I live in a fairly diverse part of town. Mostly I felt the need to be visible and unafraid in order to encourage my fellow Democrats. My route to work specifically goes past the lady in my neighborhood who has a Hilary yard sign, because she encourages me.
posted by emjaybee at 8:10 AM on August 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


There's a car with a Trump Pence for my bunghole bumper sticker on my street (with that unfortunate logo).
posted by peacheater at 8:11 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Hmm... nope, not angry. I'm rolling my eyes and making that jerk-off motion with my hand, which is how I display boredom and mild annoyance, not anger.
posted by palomar at 8:11 AM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


(Etrigan, you want the gif of The Rock rolling his eyes.)
posted by palomar at 8:12 AM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


[real] 12-year-old running Trump campaign office in Colorado

Bless his heart. I would have been delighted to do the same for Clinton at his age, and my brain was equally underbaked, just fed with better ideas and looked after by better parents.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:12 AM on August 22, 2016 [16 favorites]


I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car

I am reminded of the old saying: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."
posted by spitbull at 8:12 AM on August 22, 2016 [24 favorites]


Oh like there's been any doubt for the last decade or so.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 8:14 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


(Etrigan, you want the gif of The Rock rolling his eyes.)

I vote Prince.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:14 AM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Why not both? VOTE THE ROCK GIF/PRINCE GIF 2016
posted by palomar at 8:15 AM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I can't actually think of one single left-leaning person I know who would attack a person's car because of the stickers on it.

To be fair, I did read that a woman drove up on somebody's yard to knock down a Trump sign in the Boston suburbs, but that was newsworthy. That's going to be one unwell woman, and not a representative of a group that openly wants to curtail free speech.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:16 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


The Prince GIF is definitely more of a side eye, but still equally appropriate here.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:17 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]




I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car

Serious contender for most stupid thing I've ever read on Metafilter. I suppose posting that here was part of your fun little hobby though too.
posted by EatTheWeek at 8:21 AM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Right. I don't know her.

(no, for real... what is it about saying "i don't personally have anyone in my social circles who behaves that way" that drives people to dredge up single-serving whackjobs that made the news one time to prove me wrong? because, y'all, the fact that someone like that exists doesn't change what I am saying about my own experiences. i'm not saying those people don't exist, i'm saying i don't know them. they're thin on the ground where i am.)
posted by palomar at 8:21 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


'The Daily Show' finds Donald Trump supporters largely fail "extreme vetting" test

"And make 'em eat some bacon."

Uggghhhhhh god these people.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:23 AM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


OK, someone dropped a turd in the thread, maybe we can move on instead of discussing exactly where it lies on the Bristol stool scale.
posted by arcolz at 8:24 AM on August 22, 2016 [25 favorites]


palomar, that gif does not mean what you think it means.
posted by prefpara at 8:25 AM on August 22, 2016


It was a type 6, for the record.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:25 AM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


I am going to apply for citizenship soon and every time I hear these people who so badly want to vet immigrants I have a mixture of eye-rolling indignation and genuine fear.

(Seriously, if I have to eat bacon, I'm just going to keep on coasting on my green card forever.)
posted by Jeanne at 8:26 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Did Trump catch any of the Olympics? The man is known for his television watching, you'd think he would have caught some of it.
posted by drezdn at 8:26 AM on August 22, 2016


In which Tamara Keith interviews Trump supporters and tries really hard not to point out that their racist opinions are racist.

Thanks for linking that. I heard that this morning, too, and it was dumbfounding. "Trump supporters don't back him for the reason you think!" It's not racism? "People think it's because of economic instability from trade agreements and immigration..." I was pretty sure it was racism. "But his supporters aren't overly affected by trade or immigration." They just think they are because they're racist? "We spoke with some of his supporters... some of who sounded pained that they might come off as racist." Um...
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:27 AM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


There seems to be a disturbing amount of Trump bumper stickers that I see driving around. I live in a suburban area outside a major city in a sure blue state. I want to get a Clinton/Kaine magnet, but then I would get crap from my Trumper co-workers. I also don't want to have my tires slashed.

I'll just get stickers and put them on my non-work laptop.
posted by 81818181818181818181 at 8:28 AM on August 22, 2016


Trump’s real endgame: A white nationalist media empire?
* Vanity Fair media writer Sarah Ellison reports in a radio interview that Trump has had private discussions with his inner circle about “how to monetize” the new audience he’s built up. As Ellison puts it, this potential goal should no longer be seen as “speculation.”
This election continues to make my head hurt.
posted by Talez at 8:28 AM on August 22, 2016 [23 favorites]


palomar, that gif does not mean what you think it means.

Hi. I'm well aware of the meaning of that gif and I was employing it here because it popped into my head and made me laugh my ass off. But thanks! I love being corrected by people who don't get me.
posted by palomar at 8:28 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


soren_lorensen: "Is there any evidence that younger people are getting any better at using critical thinking vis-a-vis shit they read on the internet than the Olds? "

This isn't evidence but just an anecdote: Some of my friends are college profs and teach undergrads. I asked a few of them if the kids are smarter now than we were back in undergrad (circa mid-1990s) because of the internet. The general consensus was "not really" although one of my friends offered an observation. He thought that the internet was making the smarter ones even smarter but the... uh... less smarter ones even less smart. What he was getting at was that for the students who could figure out what things on the internet were reliable and which weren't, the internet was a godsend. But, for the ones who couldn't tell their Wikipedias from their Infowars, the internet was not so great for them.

Anyways, this got me to thinking, "is this phenomenon new? have we as a society gotten worse at separating the info-wheat from the info-chaff?". Then, I thought back to previous, truly pre-internet generations. Back when most people's primary sources of news were the 3 (count'em three) nightly network TV newscasts, your local newspapers (more than one!) and radio stations, and some national newspapers and magazines (e.g.: NYT, Wash. Post, Time, Newsweek), there was really only so far wrong you could go. Sure, these sources were far from infallible, but they generally operated within normal bounds. If you really wanted to get into out-there stuff, you'd have to go out of your way to do stuff like subscribe to weirdo mailing lists and catalogs and whatnot. But of course, nowadays, you can get your wild, out-there stuff everywhere and, with the internet, this stuff is often presented at the same parity as the normal stuff making it even trickier to tell the difference. I mean, it's a little easier to tell that something is off when you're receiving your information via poorly mimeographed newsletters than when it's being delivered by slick, Web 2.0 websites just like the NYT or whatever.

I guess my point is, I suspect that, as a society, we've never been all that great (and probably not getting any better) at figuring out which sources of information to listen to. It's just that it hasn't been quite so damaging as it was until relatively recently.
posted by mhum at 8:32 AM on August 22, 2016 [103 favorites]


mhum, that's interesting. It's a sad suggestion that not natural selection but divergence in teaching of critical thinking skills is what it takes to divide us into Eloi and Morlocks.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:38 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car

Stiggin-it to the liberals, second only to drunkenness in causing purposely stupid, self-destructive behavior.

Did Trump catch any of the Olympics?

He wasn't in them, so no.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:39 AM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


I love to anger the lefties so i put a Trump sticker on my old car

If it wasn't vandalism I'd buy a stack of Trump stickers and apply them to dumpsters and porto-potties.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:39 AM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


Well, I see a burning need for a Postroad FAQ app.

I mean, the guy was here in MetaFlintstone days.

There is also something to be said for not saying the same thing other people have said already lest the air grow rank with the fetid miasma of twisted knickers.
posted by y2karl at 8:41 AM on August 22, 2016 [19 favorites]


ugh guys can we please not feed the trolls?
posted by lonefrontranger at 8:42 AM on August 22, 2016 [29 favorites]


State GOP chair says party will handle Donald Trump’s ground game in Georgia (Atlanta Journal-Constitution, LaGrange Daily News)
The Georgia Republican Party chairman visited Troup County GOP members Thursday and updated them about the state party’s efforts to elect Donald Trump as president in November.

“Last time, we had about 21 offices scattered around the state,” Padgett said. “This year, we’re going to use your offices. We’re going to come in, and in some parts of the state share with you, and it’s going to be Trump-Troup County GOP. We’re in the process of working all that out and talking to chairmen around the state. We are going to be Trump’s ground folks.”
posted by goHermGO at 8:42 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I mean, it's a little easier to tell that something is off when you're receiving your information via poorly mimeographed newsletters than when it's being delivered by slick, Web 2.0 websites just like the NYT or whatever.

We're on to Web Bro.0: the Internet has fallen off the table and is rolling around unresponsively on the floor.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:43 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Stiggin-it to the liberals, second only to drunkenness in causing purposely stupid, self-destructive behavior.

One of the best, and most succinct, summaries of modern movement conservatism I've ever heard is cleek's law:
Today’s conservatism is the opposite of what liberals want today, updated daily.
posted by Gelatin at 8:43 AM on August 22, 2016 [45 favorites]


I found myself driving behind a car with a bunch of Hillary stickers yesterday, and it made me so happy. She won my state easily, but it's still pretty rare and special to see stickers. I have a magnet, but it won't stick to the back of the car, so it's on the side, so it's a little harder to see.
posted by Akhu at 8:43 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I've been thinking TrumpNews is the endgame from the very start of the presidential campaign. In that light, I can't imagine he even wants to win the presidency.
posted by codacorolla at 8:44 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


The thing that pisses me off the most about Trump News Network (and I agree, this has been the endgame for quite some time) is that it will probably be the only business he's been in in his life that's completely successful. He'll be able to retire rich and happy, damn it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:45 AM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Mod note: Let's maybe collectively put Bumper Zingin' behind us here, on all fronts, and move on.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:46 AM on August 22, 2016 [26 favorites]


A Nazi media empire. Just right out there. Just . . Brzzp. Wow. Okay?

NYT? WaPo? Friggin SacBee? Wanna go get them on the Nazi thing or . . . (Shut the fuck up NPR, you're like a child that wanders into the middle of a movie . . )
posted by petebest at 8:46 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


for the students who could figure out what things on the internet were reliable and which weren't, the internet was a godsend. But, for the ones who couldn't tell their Wikipedias from their Infowars, the internet was not so great for them.

In my experience, what separates the wheat from the chaff is not critical thinking, but basic curiosity.
posted by Dashy at 8:47 AM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


He'll be able to retire rich and happy, damn it.

If it's any consolation, I don't think he's the type of person who will ever be "happy." He's just going to be a crankier orange crust in the end.
posted by mochapickle at 8:51 AM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


Adolph Reed: Vote for the Lying Neoliberal Warmonger: It’s Important

I'm not in any way endorsing some of the underlying criticisms of Hillary in this piece by linking to it, but I do think it's an interesting perspective from someone with a lot of "vote your conscience" / anti-lesser-evil cred. Seems like a good link to share with anyone in your circle of friends/family that has #NeverHillary tendencies.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:55 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


The thing that pisses me off the most about Trump News Network (and I agree, this has been the endgame for quite some time) is that it will probably be the only business he's been in in his life that's completely successful.

I don't know. Some observes see the writing on the wall for Fox News as it's currently constituted. If changes are needed in the network most associated with movement conservatism, it seems a strange time for Trump to jump in with a competitor that doubles down on the formula. (Of course, given what a lousy businessperson Trump seems to be, maybe it *isn't* so surprising...)

(By the way, the question I wished the NPR interviewer I mentioned earlier would have asked is, "Where do you get your information?" Is there any doubt that it'd be Fox across the board?
posted by Gelatin at 8:58 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


John Oliver to Trump: Drop Out

"If you keep going, you're going to spend the next 11 weeks ramping up hatred in speeches, injecting poison into the American bloodstream that will take generations to remove, and denying the country the contest of ideas that a presidential campaign should actually be," he said. "And after that, you're either going to win or you're going to lose, and I think both of those scenarios end pretty badly for you."
posted by mochapickle at 9:01 AM on August 22, 2016 [50 favorites]


Last year I saw a truck driving around with a Nixon/Agnew sticker on it. But here's the kicker: the truck was less than 15 years old and the sticker looked new. The owner probably would have had to get it custom printed.

I still think about that guy sometimes.
posted by dephlogisticated at 9:03 AM on August 22, 2016 [62 favorites]


Found a couple of really excellent Charles Blow columns in the NYT that are strong rebukes of the Republican candidate's hollow pandering to African-American people. Highly recommended reads.

In Why Blacks Loath Trump, Blow details the Republican candidate's history of discriminatory housing practices, his disgusting behaviour around the Central Park Five, his involvement in Birtherism, and even more recent racially-based insults.
[...] Trump ventured to a suburban town outside Milwaukee that is 95 percent white and 1 percent black to tell the black population of America — a population that has been consumed in recent years by a discussion of police misconduct and extrajudicial killings — that “the problem in our poorest communities is not that there are too many police, the problem is that there are not enough police.”

The speech was tone deaf, facile and nonsensical, much like the man who delivered it. [...]

All of black America is looking askance at Donald Trump. He has no credibility with black people, other than the handful of black staffers and surrogates who routinely embarrass themselves in their blind obsequiousness.

Trump has demonstrated through a lifetime of words and actions that he is no friend of the black community. [...]

This is the same man who has refused to reach out to black people in any way, including rejecting offers to speak before the N.A.A.C.P., the National Association of Black Journalists and the National Urban League. (Hillary Clinton spoke before all three.)

Donald Trump is the paragon of racial, ethnic and religious hostility. He is the hobgoblin of retrograde racial hegemony.

And this is the man who now wants to court the black vote? Puh-leese …
In Mr. Blow's piece today, Trump's Hollow 'Regrets', he effectively describes why the Republican candidate's expression of regret is meaningless to those who aren't already his supporters and why the candidate does not have the constitution (heh) to change.
I don’t believe, even for a nanosecond, that he regrets the personal impact of what he has said on anyone besides himself.

I believe that he only regrets that what he has said has not worked well for him in the general election portion of the campaign. That is the difference between regret as an act of public contrition and regret as an expression of personal disappointment in one’s own flagging fortunes. [...]

But it will take more than the 75-plus remaining days of this campaign to disassemble what it took 70 years of his life to build.

He is who he is.

This fragile narcissist, who is a sort of bottomless pit of emotional need and affirmation, is easily injured by even the slightest confrontation. [...]

Trump thinks of himself as a great man [...] but if current trends continue and he suffers a staggering loss on Election Day, his ego will be forever injured as he is assigned to history not as a great man but as a great disaster, a cautionary tale of what comes of a party that picks a con man as its frontman. [...]

There is something rotten at the core of this man that no length of script or turn of phrase can ameliorate.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:07 AM on August 22, 2016 [47 favorites]


Man, now I'm tempted to get a Bush '92 bumper sticker (you can find 'em on eBay) to put on my CR-V (first model year: 1995) just to add a touch of light surreality.

I'd go Clinton/Gore, but theirs didn't have a year on, and I'd hate for someone to think it was actually put on my car in '96.
posted by jackbishop at 9:08 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I've lost the chance now to ask how and why, but my parents supported McGovern, Carter and then Reagan. Charisma will take you a long way, I guess.
posted by maxwelton at 9:09 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Man, now I'm tempted to get a Bush '92 bumper sticker

What? No love for Wendell Willkie?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:14 AM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Charisma is nice, but even more important than that is being good at telling people what they want to hear. Reagan was the Michael Jordan of telling people what they want to hear.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:16 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


When it comes to talking to African Americans, Trump is more like the Michael Jordan as a baseball player of telling people what they want to hear.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:21 AM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


Which makes me miss my "PICARD-RIKER 1992: A Choice for the Next Generation."
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:22 AM on August 22, 2016 [21 favorites]


Yeah, but Jordan was at least *trying*, which in this case I'm not sure Trump actually is.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:23 AM on August 22, 2016


This morning I saw a VW with a Trump sticker on the back, and it seemed to me to be a perfect matryoshka doll of wishful self-delusion.

Like, "Only Volkswagen can manage to offer this level of driving performance while staying within emissions control standards, and only I am clever enough to select their vehicle" maps pretty clearly to "Only Mister Trump has the courage and ability to promise -- and deliver -- a repeal of NAFTA, to build a giant wall halfway across a continent, to revive the domestic manufacturing base, to reduce taxes, to reduce entitlement programs, to know the secret plans of every immigrant, and to keep me safe."

IF IT LOOKS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE, IT PROBABLY IS.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:27 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


For that to be an apt comparison, VW would have had to make those claims while rolling coal in a Tiguan. And sold cars anyway.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:29 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Charisma will take you a long way, I guess.

The way my friend describes it, since the 1960 election, the candidate that has the most Elvis in them is the winner.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 9:32 AM on August 22, 2016 [16 favorites]


Is there anywhere that sells a "Jefferson/Burr '00"?
posted by drezdn at 9:33 AM on August 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


Never bring facts to a feelings fight.

A few years ago, we visited Bali and toured a little town that worked to maintain its cultural heritage, e.g., an unusual calendar. Two traditions stood out: a coming-of-age ritual involving bare-chested gladiator-style fighting using a local cactus as a weapon and cock-fighting with brightly dyed birds. :( Thanks to a comical translation mishap, we thought our guide was saying that he had accidentally arrived to the former carrying a bird intended for the latter. It became a recurring joke: Never bring a chicken to a cactus fight.
posted by carmicha at 9:33 AM on August 22, 2016 [57 favorites]


Looks like there are. Thanks Google!
posted by drezdn at 9:33 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


This morning I saw a VW with a Trump sticker on the back

A little voice inside my head said "Don't look back, you can never look back."
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:35 AM on August 22, 2016 [81 favorites]


This was posted towards the end of the last thread: Meet the voters jumping off the Donald Trump train

By Friday, the 57-year-old office manager had found reason for hope. Trump had delivered two consecutive rally speeches from a Teleprompter script. He then visited the site of the flooding in Louisiana.

“I am tentatively hanging on the caboose of the Trump train again. I am ready to get off if it looks like it’s going to derail as bad as it has,” Loomis said. “I guess the ball’s in his court. If he continues to embarrass me: absolutely not.”


Translation: "I am so desperate to maintain my identity as a Republican that two semi-coherent speeches and a meaningless, cynical photo op in a disaster area where Trump was asked to stay away are enough for me to offset months of racist, sexist behaviour and violent rhetoric. I want to be on the winning team, and if it looks like the game is going to get out of hand in the fourth quarter I will go into the other room and put the other team's jersey on."
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:36 AM on August 22, 2016 [47 favorites]


I work in a pretty rural, conservative area and one of the things I've found most the most interesting is the shocking lack of Trump yard signs and bumper stickers. There are a couple of hand painted anti-Hillary signs but those were there before Trump even announced. There's plenty of signs aligned with the Cliven Bundy folks but I've seen a total of 3 Trump signs in an area that was just covered in Romney signs just a few years back.
posted by Dr. Twist at 9:36 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


LaRouche76/80/84/88/92/96/00/04/08/12/16...
posted by AJaffe at 9:38 AM on August 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


I think the lack of Trump signs is probably just as much to do with lack of ground game as with lack of popularity.

(I did notice that Trumpence yard signs are cheaper than Hillary yard signs tho)
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:39 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Those of you who have done volunteering, is it okay to just do a couple hours of an all-day event?

Totally! I've been phone-banking from home/office for Hillary (just dialed my 100th call) and also going in-person for the local congressional race. Seems like in both cases, they'll take whatever you can give. Every little bit helps!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:41 AM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


I am tentatively hanging on the caboose of the Trump train again.

I'll take terrible mangling of standard idiomatic metaphors for $400, Alex.

tentatively hanging on to a train seems like a good way to wind up on the tracks or underneath it, although given the violent rhetoric coming from the engine of this particular train maybe that's not as bad a phrase as it seems
posted by Existential Dread at 9:41 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I've been thinking TrumpNews is the endgame from the very start of the presidential campaign. In that light, I can't imagine he even wants to win the presidency.

Moore claims the Presidental bid was a bluff to renegotiate his Apprentice contract with NBC, which has since blown up in Trump's face. (Probably wasn't wise to insult every single NBC/Univision viewer). But the idea that Trump never wanted the Oval Office still holds.

The pivot to TrumpNewsNetwork is the real pivot, IMO.
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:41 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


TNN or whatever it'll be called will be a raging success. There's a big chunk of viewers who think Fox News is already getting way too soft because they're not reporting on illegal immigrants forcing heterosexual women to have abortions, 24/7.
posted by splen at 9:42 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


THISISAWFUL/MAKEITSTOP 2016
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:44 AM on August 22, 2016 [56 favorites]


A few years ago, we visited Bali and toured a little town that worked to maintain its cultural heritage, e.g., an unusual calendar. Two traditions stood out: a coming-of-age ritual involving bare-chested gladiator-style fighting using a local cactus as a weapon and cock-fighting with brightly dyed birds

My new Election 2016 ethnography will be entitled Creep Fray: Notes on a Diseased Cockstain
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:45 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


THISISAWFUL/MAKEITSTOP 2016

Cthulhu 2016. Why vote for the lesser... We may have to retire that campaign slogan.
posted by Francis at 9:46 AM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


The new Keepin' It 1600 is particularly worth a listen in the context of this discussion about where people get their information. The guest talks about exactly that: Atlantic senior editor Alex Wagner joins (37:50) to break down the media’s role in dealing with Trump-like behavior and the importance of relying on facts and figures in today’s media climate.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:48 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Sweet Meteor O' Death 2016: Because mass extinction might be the lesser evil.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:48 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


TNN or whatever it'll be called will be a raging success.

Hasn't 'TNN' been used in terribad movies as fake-CNN? (Like WNN has?)

I hope so.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:48 AM on August 22, 2016


A Vote For Cthulhu Is A Vote For The Median Evil
Vote Cthulhu 2016

posted by Spathe Cadet at 9:48 AM on August 22, 2016 [20 favorites]


I don't know whether to hope that Trump News can split the Republican party in two permanently and ensure a permanent Democratic majority, or be even more terrified of what an explicitly racist/fascist Alt-right, Alt-FOX propaganda machine will do to fan hate even more.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:50 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


We had our own attempt at a Trump News Network made up here in Canada a few years ago. It failed badly, but who knows what might have happened if they'd had more than $50 a show in the budget?
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:50 AM on August 22, 2016


TNN was "The Nashville Network" ...what Spike TV used to call itself when it was all Grand Ole Opry Live, Crook & Chase, and Dukes of Hazzard reruns.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:50 AM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Which makes me miss my "PICARD-RIKER 1992: A Choice for the Next Generation."

It's funny, because yesterday I was watching S4E21 of Star Trek: TNG, in which a visiting admiral charges an Enterprise crew member with treason solely because his grandfather was Romulan, and Picard gives an impassioned speech about the danger of hatred based upon heritage and how all of our freedoms are at risk when we give credence to this ignorant short-sighted prejudice, and I was thinking, "And here we are, 25 years later." Picard would kick Trump's ass.
posted by something something at 9:51 AM on August 22, 2016 [28 favorites]


Is there anywhere that sells a "Jefferson/Burr '00"?
They were both running for President - in those days the second place finisher got the VP job.
posted by thelonius at 9:52 AM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


at the Boston Comic Con a couple of weeks ago, I saw a lot of t-shits and bumperstickers that were for Kenobi/Skywalker '16: They're Our Only Hope
posted by briank at 9:53 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I've been thinking TrumpNews is the endgame from the very start of the presidential campaign.

Disagree. For this to be true it must be demonstrated that Trump is able to plan and execute a long-term business strategy, albeit of an unconventional sort.

As far as I can tell, though, this is a person who has basically careened from one failed business venture to another, only occasionally stumbling into modest success through no real fault of his own.

He's an id-dominated ego that happened to be born with a few hundred million dollars, so much money that it's taken him nearly 70 years to blow through it all. Luckily for him he has the knack of speaking to and for the majority of white Americans who really don't give a fuck about whether black and brown people live or die.

He well may start a media company after he loses -- but it wasn't his plan all along because he can't actually make plans. (And I don't think it would take off, honestly -- Sarah Palin tried it and it sputtered out. Turns out running even a rightwing feverswamp media company takes some actual business skills? And Trump can't just throw millions of dollars at it, anymore....)
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:53 AM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Hasn't 'TNN' been used in terribad movies as fake-CNN? (Like WNN has?)

I hope so.


TRUMP: I'll start my own airline too, Oceanic Airlines! Everyone loves oceans, vast and powerful, just like me and this campaign
posted by splen at 9:54 AM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


The way my friend describes it, since the 1960 election, the candidate that has the most Elvis in them is the winner.

Hmm. Nixon was more Elvis than Hubert Humphrey? He certainly was far less Elvis than RFK. But yeah, HH was pretty stodgy.
posted by msalt at 9:54 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


They were both running for President - in those days the second place finisher got the VP job.

They were running on the same ticket and the electoral college voters had two votes each. One of them was meant to vote for someone else and forgot (or "forgot") to put Jefferson in first and Burr in second.
posted by Francis at 9:55 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Come to think of it, The Nashville Network and Trump News Network would have some serious overlap in terms of demographics...
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:55 AM on August 22, 2016


Here's my lawn sign/bumper sticker report from Omaha (a small dot of purple in an otherwise red state):

* There's a house in my neighborhood with a very tacky set of bronze statues in the front yard, representing children at play. Throughout the year, the person who lives in this house dresses these statues in different clothing: military garb (four of the five branches) on veterans day, suits and dresses at Easter, elf costumes at Christmas, and Cornhusker uniforms when football season is getting started. This house had a Trump sign waaaaay back in the spring, but it disappeared after a couple of days and has never been replaced.

* I have seen no Trump bumper stickers. Not one. I've seen a couple of Romney bumper stickers left over from the last election, but no Trumps.

I'm not certain if this scarcity of material is due to local Republicans being discouraged about their candidate, or if it's because of incompetence at the Trump campaign itself. Both, maybe? Hopefully?
posted by Ipsifendus at 9:55 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'm not certain if this scarcity of material is due to local Republicans being discouraged about their candidate, or if it's because of incompetence at the Trump campaign itself.

I'd guess that the latter begets the former, so probably both.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:57 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Turns out running even a rightwing feverswamp media company takes some actual business skills?

Oh, he's not going to run it. Ailes and/or Bannon will run it. He'll license his name and do publicity for it (mainly just by being his own toxic self on Twitter and on camera).
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:58 AM on August 22, 2016 [21 favorites]


...but who knows what might have happened if they'd had more than $50 a show in the budget?

You're assuming Trump would spend his own cash on a media network. Oh nonononononosir.
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:58 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


"Bumper Sticker" report from Northern New Jersey:

There are at least two pickup trucks in my area that have custom paint jobs supporting Trump in 2016. One is a complete dissertation on why Hillary is "awful." The other is bright red with a flag waving and Trump 2016 in big letters on it. I guess, when a bumper sticker isn't large enough, there's another way to get your point across.

(Also, on my way to work, Trump signs outnumber Clinton Signs about 6 to 1).
posted by Stynxno at 9:59 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Purple area / blue county / purple state:

One large farmhouse had a big professional-looking Trump sign in the spring, but it disappeared some time before the conventions.

One Trump bumper sticker, which was on a gigantic, immaculately clean, white pickup with a gun rack. Driven by a white guy who looked about 60.

A couple people still have Bernie yard signs up, and I've seen Bernie stickers around as well.

I have yet to see Clinton stickers or signs anywhere.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 10:00 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm not certain if this scarcity of material is due to local Republicans being discouraged about their candidate, or if it's because of incompetence at the Trump campaign itself. Both, maybe? Hopefully?

I live in a VERY red suburb near a large midwestern city and there is exactly one Trump lawn sign in a 10 block radius of my home. If these people wanted the signs, they're more than available.
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:01 AM on August 22, 2016


I'm a Chicago suburbanite originally from West KY/TN. I'm not seeing many Clinton signs either, but the people I know personally who've put them up are reporting a high rate of vandalism/stealing/destruction of them.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:03 AM on August 22, 2016


The other day I saw a Kirk/Spock 2016 sticker on a car...the kicker is that the license plate was TREKKIE
posted by dabug at 10:04 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I've seen two Clinton bumper stickers on my street in deep blue Somerville, Mass. and the aforementioned Trump bunghole sticker. There's also an Obama - Made in America sticker and two large Black Lives Matter signs and a rainbow flag on the church. I quite like my street.
Overall though I've seen many more Bernie signs than Hillary ones. I even saw one Jill Stein one.
posted by peacheater at 10:06 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


So, I got around to ordering my hoodie, and was pleased to see that they've changed the red arrow to a blue one. It still points right, but I guess that's built in to our literacy.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:08 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


The only yard sign in my (suburban) neighbourhood is a Trumppence sign. In front of the house with a likely grandfathered-in oversized garage that at least one of the residents runs a plumbing business out of.

I had the opportunity to meet a bunch of neighbours for the first time at a National Night Out bbq earlier this month, and definitely got the impression that this is a very liberal area. I can see why Trump guy might feel the need to have his lawn declare his existence, I hope that no one does anything to the sign, and will I make a point of not calling him if I need plumbing work done.

Mr. Motion is a BoB and neither of us wants to bring ourselves to the attention of idiot vandals. So I doubt we'll be the first house on the street with a Hillary sign. I might start poking more if Sign Wars heats up around here.
posted by sparklemotion at 10:11 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I have yet to see Clinton stickers or signs anywhere.

I live in DC. I know a bunch of people who want to display Clinton signs, but have no yards to put them in. They don't get displayed outside but on inner walls (anecdotally: I have heard of some apartment buildings that ask tenants not to display political signs).

Again, this is DC, but I only see Trump hats on people standing on the left side of the escalator :-|
posted by everybody had matching towels at 10:11 AM on August 22, 2016 [31 favorites]


Has anyone else noticed that the Republican candidate's MAGA hat has been white more often recently? I don't think that is a coincidence.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:13 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Again, this is DC, but I only see Trump hats on people standing on the left side of the escalator :-|

Hah!!

Regional burn!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:14 AM on August 22, 2016 [30 favorites]


The way my friend describes it, since the 1960 election, the candidate that has the most Elvis in them is the winner.

I hope Michael J. Fox wasn't planning on running then.
posted by emjaybee at 10:14 AM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


My landlord sent a notice to all tenants to refrain from putting any political signage on the property in order to be respectful of everyone's viewpoints and prevent possible vandalism. Seemed a little oddly worded but I assume they just want to cover their asses.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 10:16 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I've seen two Clinton bumper stickers on my street in deep blue Somerville, Mass. and the aforementioned Trump bunghole sticker. There's also an Obama - Made in America sticker and two large Black Lives Matter signs and a rainbow flag on the church. I quite like my street.
Overall though I've seen many more Bernie signs than Hillary ones. I even saw one Jill Stein one.


Meanwhile over on Winter Hill (also in lovely Blue Somerville) we've got a rather comical "Nope and Noper" Gary Johnson sign. Saw a Trump sign on a possibly closed business in Cambridge and a gentleman in a far too large pickup with a Trump sticker. Still many Bernie stickers but Hillary stickers are on the rise.
posted by davros42 at 10:16 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I hope Michael J. Fox yt wasn't planning on running then.

elvis is in hillary, but he's trying to get out, man, he's trying to get out
posted by entropicamericana at 10:17 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


I hope Michael J. Fox wasn't planning on running then.

I am so disappointed this is not a Spin City joke.
posted by zachlipton at 10:21 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I've never watched John Oliver until this election season - wow, but do I have tremendous respect for him (and he's super funny).

> "Just think about how triumphant it would feel to say on national television," Oliver added, quoting a fictitious Trump, "‘I openly ran on a platform of impossibly ignorant proposals steeped in racial bigotry and nobody stopped me. In fact, you embraced me for it. What the fuck was that about?’

"That would be one of the most powerful political speeches of all time. If you drop out in order to teach America a lesson, you would not be a loser. You would be a legend. There’d be a federal holiday in your honor."

posted by porpoise at 10:21 AM on August 22, 2016 [57 favorites]


Another car I saw had besides a Bernie sticker, stickers saying "If you're following me, you're lost" and "Boldly going nowhere". I feel like that's almost an anti-endorsement.
posted by peacheater at 10:22 AM on August 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


NEW EPISODE OF THE "WITH HER" HILLARY PODCAST (and it's Tim Kaine) someone from the campaign must have read my complaint in the last thread
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:24 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Well, thanks. I've been procrastinating about pulling the trigger on my bumpersticker order, and now I've ordered, and will happily display Clinton/Kaine. That a landlord can tell you not to announce your politics, that so many people are afraid to put a bumpersticker on their car for fear of vandalism and harassment, is exactly the abuse of free speech to which Trump and the politics of fear and hate have led us.
posted by theora55 at 10:24 AM on August 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


My question is what's the endgame of John Oliver's plan? Let's say Trump actually announced "yeah it was all a scam and you idiots fell for it," I mean he wouldn't, but let's say he did. Trump haters would obviously rejoice, and some Trump supporters would figure out how to retcon themselves out of the picture and pretend they never liked him, but what about the rest? Is there anybody out there who actually responds positively to being told: "yeah all that stuff I said for the past year that you totally ate it all up, it was one big scam and I did it to teach you a lesson. Consider yourself schooled" ? How would that, in any way, cause Trump supporters to seriously rethink their beliefs and their actions?

I mean, "and that's why you always leave a note" worked on Arrested Development, but "and that's why you never vote for a racist buffoon"-level trickery is unlikely to go over well.
posted by zachlipton at 10:29 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I live in the MD suburbs of DC. My neighbors are not shy of putting out political signs. There are no Clinton signs on my street, but there are several for Chris Van Hollen (long-time Rep. running for Senate). Make of that what you will.
posted by devinemissk at 10:29 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


It seems to me Trump has two prime needs: Have people think he's rich and have his ego stroked, and I think I have the order correct given his rules about jokes. Just the fact that he was important enough to roast satisfied his #2.

As for TrumpNews (he'll never allow for the glorious Trump name to be turned into an acronym) he will make money off licensing his name to the endeavor, and its existence and his inevitable appearances will feed his ego. He'll probably also find a way to hang some debt off of it to get cash to keep his other enterprises afloat, since that's what a good businessman does with a valuable asset.
posted by achrise at 10:30 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Here's a bumper sticker report from Southern Virginia: I've been trying to get bumper stickers since the convention; three orders but nothing yet. Local office would love to get me to sign-up as a volunteer but has no bumper stickers.
posted by DanSachs at 10:30 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Northern CA: I work in a super blue college town and recently moved to a much more purplish ag town, and it's Hillary stickers all over the place in both. I'm headed up into the mountains in a couple days, though, and am really curious to see how the distribution changes.
posted by mudpuppie at 10:31 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


John Oliver to Trump: Drop Out

I like John Oliver, but I have to agree with Dave Weigel here:
I don’t see why Oliver is asking Trump to quit the race, after he called him “Drumpf” and EVISCERATED him and he never won another primary

These little viral rants are well-intentioned, but will have about the same amount of lasting, real-world impact as any of Keith Olbermann's multitudinous "How Dare You, Sir?!" screeds against Bush back in the aughts.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:32 AM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


There are no Clinton signs on my street, but there are several for Chris Van Hollen (long-time Rep. running for Senate). Make of that what you will.

Nobody is worried about how MD goes for Prez.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:33 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


My question is what's the endgame of John Oliver's plan?

It's not an actual invitation, it's a rhetorical device.

Although if you want a response with all the seriousness of the scenario, it would certainly turn the tables on the Correspondent's Dinner crowd and allow Trump to set up a buffet line serving crow to everyone who mocked him everyone.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:35 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


These little viral rants are well-intentioned, but will have about the same amount of lasting, real-world impact as any of Keith Olbermann's multitudinous "How Dare You, Sir?!" screeds against Bush back in the aughts.

Well, they're funnier.
posted by Etrigan at 10:37 AM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


One reason we may all be seeing fewer lawn signs is that they don't actually do much, so campaigns would rather spend their money elsewhere.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 10:37 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I saw one Trump sign in my Northern Virginia neighborhood before the primary, and then it disappeared. (I am a 10-minute walk from the Loudoun County high school where Trump appeared and "kicked out" a crying baby, amongst other things.) We recently got a blast e-mail from the HOA reminding people that yard signs are only allowed 30 days prior to an election, must be removed within five days after the election, and limited to two political signs each no larger than 2' x 2'. We'll definitely see more signage in October.

I finally received my free No Way, No How, No Trump sticker last week but still waiting for the Clinton/Kaine stickers I paid for.
posted by candyland at 10:38 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Throughout these threads, we have been exploring the idea that Trump has been spending little on traditional campaign activities, like hiring people in every state experienced in campaigning to run his local campaign, hiring various national campaign staff, running media ads, etc.

Instead he has to a great degree hired his own companies and used his own staff to do various campaign work.

This article from The Oregonian has some more details about these arrangements:
Donald Trump likes to boast that he's funding his own presidential campaign and thus is not beholden to the special interests who own the "rigged" political system.

He also could be making a nice profit while he's at it.

Throughout the past year, "a large share of Trump's campaign money has been spent paying himself for the use of his Boeing 757, his smaller jet, his helicopter, his Trump Tower office space, and other services supplied by Trump businesses," Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist David Cay Johnston writes in his new book, "The Making of Donald Trump." In July alone, the Trump campaign spent some $2 million on private jets, plus another $500,000 for his 757, which includes gold-plated seatbelt buckles. . . .

The Associated Press reported Sunday that Trump's campaign expenses "more than doubled last month, even as the Republican presidential nominee held his payroll to about 70 employees, aired no television advertisements and undertook no significant operational buildout across the country."

So where's the money going?

Almost half of the campaign's $18.5 million in July spending went to an internet marketing firm with no political-campaign experience but is a "crossover vendor from Trump's real-estate organization." The president of the firm, Brad Pascale, serves as the campaign's digital-marketing director. . . .

While Trump is keeping his outlay for actual campaigning low, Hillary Clinton's campaign, in contrast, has about 700 employees and has already spent millions of dollars on TV ads, primarily in so-called "battleground states."
Because of campaign laws designed to prevent graft and de facto non-recorded donations, Trump's companies are required to charge full market rates for whatever services they provide to the campaign.
posted by flug at 10:40 AM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


(The study included a sign, at right, paid for by FreedomWorks and used in the most recent Virginia gubernatorial election, which unfortunately misspelled the name of the state.)


Virgina.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:41 AM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


> Hmm. Nixon was more Elvis than Hubert Humphrey? He certainly was far less Elvis than RFK. But yeah, HH was pretty stodgy.

I was around in 1968 (not able to vote yet, but I was Clean for Gene and worked the phone banks) and I hated Tricky Dick with a passion (still do, though my hatred has been somewhat diluted by even eviler presidents since), and I assure you that "pretty stodgy" is an extreme understatement and Nixon did indeed beat him hollow in that regard. Dwight Eisenhower was more Elvis than poor Hubie.
posted by languagehat at 10:43 AM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]




Some observes see the writing on the wall for Fox News as it's currently constituted.

Me. I think the Roger Ailes thing was the beginning of that.
posted by bongo_x at 10:45 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]




These little viral rants are well-intentioned, but will have about the same amount of lasting, real-world impact as any of Keith Olbermann's multitudinous "How Dare You, Sir?!" screeds against Bush back in the aughts.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:32 AM on August 22 [+] [!]


Sometimes they matter. Stephen Colbert's host-turned-roaster gig at the 2006 White House correspondents dinner seemed to change the national media perspective on a gd dime. It was the only true "the emperor has no clothes" moment I've ever witnessed, and it was a lifeline of hope and sanity for everyone who felt like they'd been screaming into the void for six years.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:49 AM on August 22, 2016 [49 favorites]


I've seen one Gary Johnson sign in my neighborhood, and no other lawn signs. A few Bernie bumper stickers. Aside from mine, I've seen maybe two Hillary bumper stickers.

Up across from the entrance to the local Costco, someone's erected a gigantic Trump billboard, so that it's the main thing you see when you exit the Costco parking lot. It apparently gets vandalized enough that the owner has put up a second, equally gigantic, hand-painted sign informing the world that vandalism is a crime.
posted by lovecrafty at 10:49 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Has anyone else noticed that the Republican candidate's MAGA hat has been white more often recently? I don't think that is a coincidence.

The color key got leaked.

So it's most likely going to be 100% white from here on out, no matter what Trump might actually be thinking.
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:51 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


So wait, is there a mechanism by which a government institution can investigate the campaign to be sure Trump is not primarily funneling funds into his own exclusive self-interest?

And if so, can I be there while they're investigating?

Furthermore, will there be popcorn?
posted by Tevin at 10:51 AM on August 22, 2016


Who needs Fox or even a Trump News Network when you have the One America News Network? It replaced Headline News on my cable lineup.
posted by charred husk at 10:53 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm in Mississippi, and I, too, have seen relatively few stickers/signs for Trump. But when I DO, man, it's almost just never one or even two small tasteful stickers. It's a pickup with TRUMP all the hell over it along with anti-abortion stuff, Bible verses. You can't see the terrible paint job for all the nuttery. You know what they say about the South: we don't stick our eccentrics in the attic, we prop 'em up right on the porch in a rocking chair.
posted by thebrokedown at 10:54 AM on August 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


" (The study included a sign, at right, paid for by FreedomWorks and used in the most recent Virginia gubernatorial election, which unfortunately misspelled the name of the state.)"

Virgina.


Virgina is For Lovers
posted by komara at 10:54 AM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]




Before the convention, I saw waaaay more Bernie signs and bumper stickers than Hillary. After the convention, the Bernie signs are still there but Hillary signs started sprouting up, most notably in the upper middle class, predominantly Jewish neighborhood my parents live in. In my predominantly working and middle-middle class , fairly racially-integrated neighborhood, there's just one Bernie sign and nothing else. I'm hoping my yard sign gets delivered before the election?

Seriously, I dare a motherfucker to vandalize my house or my car. Come at me, bro.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:55 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Here's a bumper sticker report from Southern Virginia: I've been trying to get bumper stickers since the convention; three orders but nothing yet. Local office would love to get me to sign-up as a volunteer but has no bumper stickers.

I ordered my pins and bumper magnets before the DNC, they still haven't arrived. I was not that enthusiastic about the magnet choices so I went over to Cafe Press which has hundreds of choices and I got a couple which arrived very quickly. I like the magnets because you can save them and put them on your refrigerator. I still have my Obama/Biden 08.

My husband works at the Raleigh Main Post Office and he says he has only seen one sticker. It was a very small Trump sticker on a Prius. He described the sticker as un-trumplike as it was small and discrete, decidedly non-flashy.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:56 AM on August 22, 2016


[real] 12-year-old running Trump campaign office in Colorado
Imer's mother, Laurel Imer, is the official field coordinator on paper, but she wants to give her son most of the responsibility and help show other parents - Democrat or Republican - how to get their kids involved.
This is most Trump-inspired thing I've read all election. Mom has her name on the paper, but shifts all her responsibility elsewhere and the real decisions are being made by a 12 year old. It's his whole campaign reductio ad absurdum.
posted by maryr at 10:56 AM on August 22, 2016 [64 favorites]


Data point: I'm a lefty by any measure, and when I see a Trump sticker I don't get angry. I just think "what a dumbfuck."

So on the access road that gets you to the SCA's Pennsic War (about an hour north of Pittsburgh) there was a car COVERED with Trump stuff - to the point where, if you wanted to drive it, you'd have to spend significant time clearing the windows, probably to send a message to the 11,000 "hippies" camping up the hill. The punchline? The car was a Volvo.

Anyhow, despite trying to troll a city of 11000 alt culture types, near as I can tell, nobody did a thing to the car besides laugh at it.

But, seriously, a Volvo? That's like Mark Twain caliber irony.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 10:58 AM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


There's a Trump sign down the street from me. A Jill Stein sign sits across the street from it.

One of the more discouraging things I saw when traveling a while back was a Trump signs along the road. The sign was hand-made and added to the sign it read, "Go ahead and vandalize this one. I'll just make another." I drove by a day later and he had a new sign out with signs of spray paint around it. I really wish people wouldn't feed the usual conservative persecution complex with actual persecution.
posted by charred husk at 10:58 AM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Just returning from the outer edge of red Washington State - no bumper stickers sighted, but the sign report from the Real America town I grew up in is a single Trump sign from the primary, with a piece of printer paper taped to it that warned of a camera. Saw about a half dozen of the large size general election Trump signs along Highway 2 on the way back. None with the short lived TP logo, sorry to say.

In my own neighborhood, in the heart of blue Washington, Bernie remains a cult figure. Those signs and stickers aren't going anywhere soon. The one from in front of my own house is gone because my roommate and I told our other roommate that, as Clinton supporters both, we weren't comfortable living behind a Bernie sign now that he had lost the nomination (this was about a week after the California primary). Our roomate has become a grudging but clear-eyed Clinton supporter since then.

I want to put up a Hillary sign, but our town has a seriously bad young white manarchist vandalism problem. It's common to see houses, fences and garages tagged with "ACAB" in our neighborhood because some dudes in our town are just so darn woke that they need to tell everyone so on someone else's property. We've been lucky not to get hit yet, but I'm dead certain a Hillary sign would bring that lucky streak to an end. So I wear my H crest shirt instead while processing my resentment for the destructive children I share a neighborhood with.

The neighborhood Fail Truck has a Hillary for Prison sticker and a gun rights sticker. The dude's last Fail Truck had white supremecist stickers all over the back of it until he wanted to put it up for sale.

In a related story, I can't wait to move out of this town.
posted by EatTheWeek at 11:00 AM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


LaRouche76/80/84/88/92/96/00/04/08/12/16...

You think Lyndon LaRouche only ran for President in years when there was actually a presidential election? Oh, you sweet summer child...
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:01 AM on August 22, 2016 [26 favorites]


hmm just saw a Boston Globe tweet about a gun rights rally and how the organizers asked them to leave their Confederate flags at home.

I mean, that's the nice thing about Confederate flags as well as Trump signs on the lawn: one is fully aware who the racist assholes are.

I'm a little worried that the push back against Trump's racism has exacerbated that weird white people thing where they get so sad about being called a racist and somehow this leads not them becoming not racist but more so.

I mean not sure what the answer is, but if slavery being our original sin is written into our popular consciousness, maybe it's seen as like describing people as satan worshipers and people are like NO it's THE GREAT HORNED ONE I worship how dare you I challenge you to a duel.
posted by angrycat at 11:03 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]



Donald Trump, Shifting Immigration Tone, Stresses a ‘Fair’ Approach

He's pivoting! PIVOTING!


There has been a lot of press coverage about this this weekend because everyone is trying to parse what it means. Hire a well-known racist to run your campaign and then soften on immigration? But he seems to be trying to have it both ways. To the Hispanic community it is "We will be "humane" (his spokeswoman actually used that word) and the method will be determined at a later date." However with his racist base it is all "*wink wink* We are not changing."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:04 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I wanted to grab the convention sign package so I could display a Bernie sign and a Stronger Together sign in my front windows, but it appears I'm too late.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:06 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


There has been a lot of press coverage about this this weekend because everyone is trying to parse what it means.

Trump Is Going To Keep Faux-Pivoting Until We All Fall For It

Not sure I agree with the hypothesis that journalists and pundits are ever going to fall for it -- I don't necessarily have a lot of love for them, but I'm pretty sure they'll be able to remember the things Trump's been saying about them so far -- but it will be interesting to find out.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 11:07 AM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Oh if anyone wants a "Stronger Together" bumper sticker, I have a spare. First person to MeFi mail with an address can have it.
posted by strange chain at 11:07 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


There are no Clinton signs on my street, but there are several for Chris Van Hollen (long-time Rep. running for Senate). Make of that what you will.

Nobody is worried about how MD goes for Prez.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:33 PM on August 22


Agreed that no one is worried about how MD will go -- and I'm definitely not worried on my stereotypically overeducated liberal street. I just find it an interesting data point. Maybe it would be more to the point to note that I haven't seen any Hillary signs all year -- nor any Bernie signs (and dollars to donuts there are at least a few folks on my block who were pro-Bernie). It's like the presidential race just isn't happening on my street.
posted by devinemissk at 11:09 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


John Oliver is a comedian, his endgame is comedy.
posted by zutalors! at 11:10 AM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


Oh if anyone wants a "Stronger Together" bumper sticker, I have a spare. First person to MeFi mail with an address can have it.

Yoink!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:11 AM on August 22, 2016


Not sure I agree with the hypothesis that journalists and pundits are ever going to fall for it -- I don't necessarily have a lot of love for them, but I'm pretty sure they'll be able to remember the things Trump's been saying about them so far -- but it will be interesting to find out.

Of course they remember, but (a) the media has a strong financial incentive to create the illusion of a competitive race, and (b) recent history shows that the press is exceedingly credulous when it comes to taking Republicans' centrist appeals at face value even when it's at odds with their deeds and previous words. Trump himself has flipped and flopped so many times with barely any notice in the media -- why should we believe they're going to turn on him now?
posted by tonycpsu at 11:13 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


It's like the presidential race just isn't happening on my street

I think that's literally true.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:14 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


*I am thinking here mostly of adults I know; I do separately worry that Trump's rhetoric is actually making the next generation of children more racist than they otherwise would be, by voicing what modern politicians leave unsaid.

Some kids, probably, but I think it may be having the opposite effect for others: a decent number of kids are learning from Trump, Black Lives Matter, etc... that there's still a lot of work to be done and that we aren't really living in a "post-racial society" where society is a big happy rainbow all the time. In a way, that's progress over a decade ago.

On the other hand, bullies are taunting their Hispanic and Muslim classmates by yelling "Trump" and "build a wall" at them on the playground, so yeah, not so great.
posted by zachlipton at 11:16 AM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


Oh! Turns out we'd met the 12-year-old in Colorado before, when he made some calls to try to intimidate #NeverTrump delegates at the RNC:
In particular, there was a deep resentment at what they called “soft thug tactics” by Trump supporters to encourage them to support the presumptive nominee. One candidate for alternate received a voicemail from a 12-year-old who insisted he was speaking on behalf of both the Trump campaign and the Colorado Republican party and said that the Colorado Republican party wanted nothing to do with the effort to “free the delegates”. Davis soon clarified that the 12-year-old was only speaking on behalf of the Trump campaign and warned gravely: “I think every Colorado delegate to Cleveland has to examine their conscience and live with the guilt that comes with voting to weaken Donald Trump, our Republican nominee.” Another was told in a phone call from the 12-year-old Trump supporter that those seeking to free the delegates were somehow plotting to steal nomination from the real estate developer and hand it to Jeb Bush.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 11:16 AM on August 22, 2016 [25 favorites]


Oh, he's not going to run it. Ailes and/or Bannon will run it. He'll license his name and do publicity for it (mainly just by being his own toxic self on Twitter and on camera).

Good point. Trump is the tacky love child of Boris Johnson and Lord Conrad Black, isn't he.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:18 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


> Trump himself has flipped and flopped so many times with barely any notice in the media -- why should we believe they're going to turn on him now?

Just off the top of my head, because he's taken to making them feel physically unsafe during his rallies.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 11:18 AM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


In Florida, I've seen Trump signs in front of million-dollar beach houses, as well as one on a Prius otherwise adorned with religious stickers. The scariest are the "Law enforcement for Trump" stickers.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 11:19 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Spathe Cadet: Oh! Turns out we'd met the 12-year-old in Colorado before, when he made some calls to try to intimidate #NeverTrump delegates at the RNC:

Oh my. I see Die Trumperjugend has really hit the ground running.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:21 AM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


Just off the top of my head, because he's taken to making them feel physically unsafe during his rallies.

99% of the media isn't at the rallies. Katy Tur certainly has friends and colleagues who may be compelled enough by her story to do a better job accurately reporting Trump's contradictions, but a much larger proportion of the media ecosystem isn't there and has no reason to feel threatened.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:24 AM on August 22, 2016


Donald Trump can't even tie a tie correctly. Sad!
"It's ludicrous and no one is pointing it out. It's egregiously long. My guess is that he buys Italian ties (which often are longer because Italians like to tie up a big knot) but then he ties a regular knot — probably a half Windsor."
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:25 AM on August 22, 2016 [26 favorites]


a much larger proportion of the media ecosystem isn't there and has no reason to feel threatened.

The media is called The Village for a reason. There's maybe three degrees of separation.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:27 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I can't really bring myself to be mad at a 12-year-old kid, however much I may be picturing him as a real-life Draco Malfoy.

His parents really should have had words with him about his calling up people to make threats though. It should merit at least a day's grounding. Family values, &c.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:27 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I don’t see why Oliver is asking Trump to quit the race, after he called him “Drumpf” and EVISCERATED him and he never won another primary

oh man, if I never saw another link where somebody "eviscerates" or "destroys" some right-wing nonsense, I'd be so happy. I like a smart comeback as much as anyone but that language just underscores the total impotence of being witty and erudite, which is pretty much all I know how to do.
posted by Countess Elena at 11:29 AM on August 22, 2016 [24 favorites]


The scariest are the "Law enforcement for Trump" stickers.

Due to the quirks of my city's ordinances about certain city employees having to live within the city limits intersecting with housing prices, my neighborhood is chock-a-block with first responders, many cops amongst them. They are mostly perfectly fine people, but there was one family who used to live the next street over (they moved last year) where the dad was the coppiest-looking cop who ever rocked a high-and-tight and I knew he was an asshole because they'd put a bumper sticker on one of their kids' (given their very Irish last name, I assumed Catholic and they had I think four little toe-headed sons) Big Wheels that said "Liberals make me SICK" with a Mr. Yuck face.

Dude. DUDE. Hateful bumper stickers (in a neighborhood that voted 80% Obama, hello!) on your own car--when you're a public servant, no less--is one thing, but putting that shit on your kids' toys?! That is the mark of a true asshole.

I'm sure he took a job in a nice, comfortable lily white suburb where he gets paid twice as much to get shot at 100% less (I can't really blame him on that score), and good riddance, doucherocket.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:29 AM on August 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


Donald Trump can't even tie a tie correctly. Sad!
"It's ludicrous and no one is pointing it out. It's egregiously long. My guess is that he buys Italian ties (which often are longer because Italians like to tie up a big knot) but then he ties a regular knot — probably a half Windsor."


Haha! I can never un-see this. Now any time I see a picture of the Donald, I'll notice how ridiculously long he wears his ties, and how ridiculous it makes him look.
posted by devinemissk at 11:30 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


doesn't he realize that giant ties will only make his tiny hands look tinier?
posted by poffin boffin at 11:32 AM on August 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


I will never forgive the people who have conspired to make me look at Donald Trump's crotch.
posted by Etrigan at 11:34 AM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


I always assumed the long ties thing was an effort to make himself somehow look slimmer.
posted by dis_integration at 11:35 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


a much larger proportion of the media ecosystem isn't there and has no reason to feel threatened.

There are almost certainly a few producers out there thinking 'Oh man, if one of our reporters were to get killed? That would be RATINGS!'

"Hey Margo? How'd you like to cover the Trump rally tonight? "
posted by happyroach at 11:36 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]




Stephen Colbert's host-turned-roaster gig at the 2006 White House correspondents dinner seemed to change the national media perspective on a gd dime.

But unfortunately that change in perspective was "never invite Stephen Colbert back." I disagree with the larger perspective; he called the media out for acting like stenographers, but they're little less so now. They'll *occasionally* call out some of Trump's more obvious whoppers, but they're so deathly afraid of being accused of so-called "liberal media bias" -- by critics who are not at all acting in good faith -- that they retreat to their phony "balanced" model time and again.

(Listen to Trump's supporters in that NPR interview I linked earlier -- they parrot the line that he tells it like it is, even when his pattern of lies is beyond obvious. They'd rather believe him than their own lying eyes.)
posted by Gelatin at 11:37 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


The 12 year old now running a CO Trump campaign office made threatening phone calls to #nevertrump RNC delegates

What I wouldn't give for a recording of this little prick making a threatening phone call to MeFi's own corb.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:38 AM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


Internet sleuthing indicates that Trump used to be able to tie his ties properly.

Maybe, like many old men, his waistbands have crept up over the years while he's continued tying his ties the same length?
posted by stolyarova at 11:39 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


you know i'm tempted to make fun of Trump's tie thing but as a chick who wore skinny pink ties in the '80s, it's hard for me to. Ties are hard, jeez.
posted by angrycat at 11:43 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Oh if anyone wants a "Stronger Together" bumper sticker, I have a spare. First person to MeFi mail with an address can have it.

Yoink!


Naw, he 'buttoned' a year ago.
 
posted by Herodios at 11:43 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


The less said about Trump's ties, either the ones he wears or the ones he sells, the better.

I could at least respect a Republican party that would nominate some old money patrician who wore an understated Brooks Brothers tie, tied four-in-hand, even if I wouldn't vote for him.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:44 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Maybe, like many old men, his waistbands have crept up over the years while he's continued tying his ties the same length?

Going by the recent photos, no. He appears to have glommed onto Italian Ties = Quality without any curiosity about why they were so long.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:45 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Donald Trump can't even tie a tie correctly. Sad!

Are we really arguing about this? I mean, hell, 80% of American men don't even know there's a knot other than the Half-Windsor.
posted by dw at 11:49 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Maybe, like many old men, his waistbands have crept up over the years while he's continued tying his ties the same length?

The belt is my point of reference for how long a tie should be. If the belt crept up, my landmark for tie length would do the same. I can't tie a damn tie without a landmark!

I refuse to contemplate putting on a tie in the nude
posted by Existential Dread at 11:50 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


> 99% of the media isn't at the rallies. Katy Tur certainly has friends and colleagues who may be compelled enough by her story to do a better job accurately reporting Trump's contradictions, but a much larger proportion of the media ecosystem isn't there and has no reason to feel threatened.

It's not just Katy Tur, though.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 11:51 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm not going to make fun of him here because I commit that faux pas all the damn time as a stumpy 5'6" dude who has to choose between the tie hanging below my waist or the thin end being lower than the wide end.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:52 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


guess what folks, the tie just got ten windsors longer
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:53 AM on August 22, 2016 [30 favorites]


but as a chick who wore skinny pink ties in the '80

Which was the height of fashion. (Were they knit? It's OK, it was a different time.)

Are we really arguing about this? I mean, hell, 80% of American men don't even know there's a knot other than the Half-Windsor.

True, but this is the guy who's built his brand about bling and sophistication, so it's fair game. Hell, I couldn't do anything besides a half-windsor without looking it up, but I still know to start over and re-adjust my tie if it's too long.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:55 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


they were totally fucking knit. and i wore them with rainbow-striped trousers.
gah
posted by angrycat at 11:56 AM on August 22, 2016 [26 favorites]


Ugh I wish there were another season of Great British Bake Off. I need soothing from this awful political cycle. As it is I'm putting off my oil change because I have a horrible suspicion that my mechanic (who was a Cruz supporter) will now be a Trump voter. :(
posted by stolyarova at 11:56 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


>> a much larger proportion of the media ecosystem isn't there and has no reason to feel threatened.

> The media is called The Village for a reason. There's maybe three degrees of separation.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:27 AM on August 22 [+] [!]


To be fair, it's called The Village for two reasons. First is the thing you've observed. Second is because if you try to leave, a giant menacing weather balloon chases you down and eats you.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:57 AM on August 22, 2016 [43 favorites]


> I mean, hell, 80% of American men don't even know there's a knot other than the Half-Windsor.

Alt-favorites:

- The Demi-Tasse Nelson
- Bow-tie Thai Bow
- Hand-in-Hand-in-Hand (aka, Escher's Lash)
- Grandpa's Whimsy
- Nelson: Final Form
- Neckjobber
posted by Tevin at 11:57 AM on August 22, 2016 [28 favorites]


However one chooses to knot them, the back part of the tie must be the same length as the front, and one must stuff said back part through the loop on the back of the front part. I will not be dissuaded from this.
posted by AJaffe at 11:58 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


It's not just Katy Tur, though.

Yes, but I just don't know that there's a lot of solidarity between the front-line reporters and the class of media figures that people look to for analysis and opinion. A Presidential candidate siccing his supporters on members of the press is pretty much unprecedented, so I can't say with certainty that I know how this will play out, but Trump's been doing this for quite some time and I've noticed no significant shift in how he's being covered.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:58 AM on August 22, 2016


Donald Trump can't even tie a tie correctly

The single worst thing* about Donald Trump is that he doesn't even have the decency to look the part of the evil rich Republican (well-coifed, finely tailored, pristinely manicured). Instead, he's every inch the slovenly lump as either me or Michael Moore.

*This is not even close to the worst thing about Donald Trump.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:59 AM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


(...I assumed Catholic and they had I think four little toe-headed sons) Big Wheels that said "Liberals make me SICK" with a Mr. Yuck face.

Dude. DUDE. Hateful bumper stickers (in a neighborhood that voted 80% Obama, hello!) on your own car--when you're a public servant, no less--is one thing, but putting that shit on your kids' toys?! That is the mark of a true asshole.


Yeah, but we need to show some sympathy for those kids, because finding hats that fit must be hell.
posted by mudpuppie at 11:59 AM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


Would a president unable to appear outdoors without a hat be a better thing if he had better taste in hats?
posted by Artw at 12:01 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


To clarify on the mechanic thing, it's an adorable family business that we've been taking our cars to for 7+ years, and they've always been great to us (extremely honest, fair, and transparent). But the dad (who mostly hangs out in the lobby now while his son runs the shop) loves to pick my brain on politics and while I normally don't mind I know he's bought into BENGHAZI!!!!!!!!! and EMAILS!!!!!!!!! and I just don't have the energy and also don't know how to defuse the situation tactfully.
posted by stolyarova at 12:01 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


the back part of the tie must be the same length as the front

Some of us would look like this.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:01 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Ugh I wish there were another season of Great British Bake Off. I need soothing from this awful political cycle.

A new series starts on Wednesday!

(I don’t know what hoops you would have to jump through to see it in the US, though)
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 12:02 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Virgina

Dolores!

I live in Northern Virginia and I have yet to see a Trump or Clinton bumper sticker or yard sign in the wild. My sister just moved to Culpeper (past the exurbs into rural Va), so I've driven down there for the last three weekends but no Trump yard signs or bumper stickers spotted which is a little surprising.

I do pass maybe five yard signs every day for our incumbent representative for the 10th congressional district; she's a moderate republican in a lightly gerrymandered district, who rates an F from some whack-a-doodie conservative think tank, and has re-gifted $3000 in Trump donations from her 2014 run to wounded veterans organizations.
posted by peeedro at 12:03 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


5 Points on the Weird Ways Trump's Campaign Is Spending Its Money:
  1. Trump's Campaign Paid One Company More Than $8 Million
  2. Trump's Campaign Spent More on Arena Rentals Than Staff
  3. Trump's Still Spending Far Less Than His Counterparts Have at This Point
  4. Trump's Investing Heavily in Swag [more than payroll]
  5. Trump's Campaign Has Continued to Spend With Trump-Owned Businesses
posted by kirkaracha at 12:04 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


A new series starts on Wednesday!

New-new as in post-Nadiya (she was SO ADORABLE) or as in Nadiya's season? Because if you mean post-Nadiya this is the BEST NEWS I HAVE HAD IN WEEKS. <3
posted by stolyarova at 12:04 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


New new.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 12:06 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


The tie thing just makes me think again about how ridiculous ties are. What is that about my friends?? Ties are weird. No on ties.
posted by wemayfreeze at 12:08 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Bow ties are cool.
posted by stolyarova at 12:09 PM on August 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish
For some reason I've remembered this, from Douglas Adams's The Deeper Meaning of Liff, since high school:
RANFURLY (adj.)
Fashion of trying ties so that the long thin end underneath dangles below the short fat upper end.
posted by rp at 12:09 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


5 Points on the Weird Ways Trump's Campaign Is Spending Its Money:

Gah the long tie is there in point 1

I'm never going to not see this now
posted by Existential Dread at 12:09 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


If Larry Lessig had gotten further we might have seen a bow-tied nominee. Who was the last candidate to wear a bow tie?
posted by stolyarova at 12:12 PM on August 22, 2016


Paul Simon? No, not that Paul Simon, another Paul Simon.
posted by davros42 at 12:14 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Who was the last candidate to wear a bow tie?

Probably Paul Simon.
posted by dw at 12:14 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Senator Simon wears a bow tie and I simply don't think america is ready for a presidential candidate, much less a president, who wears bow-ties -- especially in the 1980s.
posted by sparklemotion at 12:15 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Who was the last candidate to wear a bow tie?

William McKinley was a bow tie man.
posted by peeedro at 12:15 PM on August 22, 2016


No, not that Paul Simon, another Paul Simon.

They get mixed up all the time.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:17 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Roger "literally on Trump's payroll" Stone: Trump “Should Release His Tax Returns Immediately”

So I guess this means that the returns are coming soon and they're just building up anticipation to make the very act of releasing a victory?
posted by acidic at 12:17 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]




Washington Post today: The FBI found 15,000 emails Hillary Clinton didn’t turn over. Uh oh.

Clickbaity headline! From waaay down at the bottom of the article:
It's not clear, of course, whether any/all of these emails and documents were work-related.
[...]
To be clear: Clinton has already been cleared of any official wrongdoing in the matter by Comey. And Comey and the FBI were aware of this latest batch of emails — hell, they found them! -- when he rendered his judgment on Clinton.
So, nothing actually new or noteworthy here. Just continuing to stoke those fires of right wing outrage. Okay then. Thanks, WP!
posted by Roommate at 12:18 PM on August 22, 2016 [31 favorites]


Donald Trump Reportedly Thought He Could Continue Starring In ‘The Apprentice’ As President.

The link I posted earlier about Trump using his Presidential bid as a bargaining chip w/NBC didn't make much sense when I first read it. Now it does.
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:18 PM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


5 Points on the Weird Ways Trump's Campaign Is Spending Its Money:

1. Kickbacks
2. Kickbacks
3. Kickbacks
4. Kickbacks
5. Kickbacks
posted by mightygodking at 12:20 PM on August 22, 2016 [16 favorites]




I do not approve of bow ties. Except on tiny babies or occasionally, pets.

Trump in a bow tie would look like he was being strangled.
posted by emjaybee at 12:22 PM on August 22, 2016


Several more recent presidents have worn them at least occasionally.

Isn't that Obama pic a badly photoshopped clown tie? (though there are plenty of real pictures to choose from)
posted by mazola at 12:22 PM on August 22, 2016


Trump in a bow tie would look like he was being strangled.

Ah, now you see why we're advocating it.
posted by Etrigan at 12:22 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Several more recent presidents have worn them at least occasionally.

Tuxedos don't count.
posted by dis_integration at 12:23 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


>Explicitly Racist Campaign Caught Employing Racists

That's a great read, Horace Rumpole, thank you. And by great, I mean I am glad that they named the people individually and reported about how the racists acted and reacted, and then followed that up with a contrast to 2012's campaign.
posted by cashman at 12:28 PM on August 22, 2016


Interesting perspective from the Baltimore Sun via Google News:
Trump doubles down on Trump
Baltimore Sun - ‎1 hour ago‎
This is a modal window. This modal can be closed by pressing the Escape key or activating the close button. Close. This is a modal window. This modal can be closed by pressing the Escape key or activating the close button. Foreground. ---, White, Black ...
I honestly didn't think they'd go there.
 
posted by Herodios at 12:28 PM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


Any given cat in a bow tie would be a better president than Trump (though arguably more likely to literally end up with his foot in his mouth).
posted by stolyarova at 12:28 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


BOWTIE CAT/PANTS CHICKEN 2016
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 12:30 PM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


How the first liberal Supreme Court in a generation could reshape America:
A liberal Court could end long-term solitary confinement. It could mandate better prison conditions in general, making it more costly to maintain mass incarceration. It could conceivably end the death penalty. It could uphold tough state campaign finance rules and start to move away from Citizens United. It could start to develop a robust right to vote and limit gerrymandering. It could strengthen abortion rights, moving toward viewing abortion rights as a matter of equal protection for women.

If Donald Trump wins in November, this is all moot. But if he loses, as polls increasingly indicate, the dawn of a new era of liberal jurisprudence could be upon us.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:31 PM on August 22, 2016 [35 favorites]


It would be nice if a liberal Supreme Court would do something about mass surveillance and the TSA. :(
posted by stolyarova at 12:32 PM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


MSNBC is covering the AP story about Trump staffers posting racist things online, as breaking news right now. The Associated Press has reached out to Trump but no response yet.
posted by cashman at 12:39 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I read
http://bigstory.ap.org/
as
http://bigotry.ap.org

and thought -- finally, URLing it what it is.
posted by Dashy at 12:41 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


This campaign has been like no other, and it's been GREAT in terms of investigative journalism. Go AP!
posted by Dashy at 12:42 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


From the AP story:
AP also reviewed images attached to more than 19,000 stolen internal emails from the Democratic National Committee for racially or religiously inflammatory memes, finding nothing of note.

A: this is good and B: goddamn that's a lot of email to review.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:43 PM on August 22, 2016 [26 favorites]


Donald Trump can't even tie a tie correctly. Sad!

Will the horrors never cease? Damn dude, that's 101 level dressing.
posted by bongo_x at 12:45 PM on August 22, 2016


Can't be that hard to filter 19,000 emails and look for any LOLGIFs buried in the attachments.
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:45 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Is it just my skewed perception or has the blatantly racist social media (and sometimes actual media) profiles of many of its surrogates just gone... mostly unchallenged until now? I sort of feel like any other campaign employing (in any capacity) someone with super offensive Twitter feeds would be forced to fire said person and put out a very strongly-worded press release utterly repudiating said person and attesting ignorance of their awful views within like an hour of the news breaking. But Trumps entire campaign is now being run by a dude whose editorial purview includes such gems as "Birth Control Makes Women Unattractive and Crazy" and everyone is just like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:47 PM on August 22, 2016 [34 favorites]


It's a low-hanging fruit thing, soren_lorensen. I think there was maybe one day last week? when Trump didn't tweet something newly awful, so that must have been the day the AP decided to keep clicking. The depth of the field of horror, though .... infinite. I bet we'll still be hearing new awful things about Trump this time next year.
posted by Dashy at 12:51 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


BOW TIE FLOW CHART 2016

/-------------------------------\
|Are you in the Nation of Islam?|---YES---> YOU MAY WEAR A BOWTIE
\-------------------------------/
  |
  NO
  |
/------------------\
|Are you dapper af?|--------YES------------> YOU MAY WEAR A BOWTIE
\------------------/
  |
  NO
  |
  \-----------------------> YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T WEAR A BOWTIE

posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:56 PM on August 22, 2016 [52 favorites]


This campaign has been like no other, and it's been GREAT in terms of investigative journalism. Go AP!

We're finally discovering what it takes to get the media to give a shit.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:59 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


YCTaB...I don't see ARE YOU A CLOWN anywhere on that flow chart
posted by Existential Dread at 1:00 PM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


/---------------------------------\
|Do you travel in a TARDIS? |--------YES------------> YOU MAY WEAR A BOWTIE, BUT NOT THIS SEASON
\---------------------------------/
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:00 PM on August 22, 2016 [42 favorites]


YCTaB...I don't see ARE YOU A CLOWN anywhere on that flow chart
posted by Existential Dread at 1:00 PM on August 22 [+] [!]


is it eponysterical when someone named Existential Dread suggests adding clowns?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:01 PM on August 22, 2016 [19 favorites]


everything i do is eponysterical
posted by Existential Dread at 1:02 PM on August 22, 2016 [73 favorites]




BOW TIE FLOW CHART 2016

ADDENDUM:

┌─────────────────────────┐
│ Are you Tucker Carlson? │ -- YES --┐
└─────────────────────────┘          │
           │                         |
           NO ---------- You definitely shouldn't wear a bowtie.

posted by Talez at 1:06 PM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


┌─────────────────────────┐
│ Do you really GAF/Need  |
│ help to get dressed?    │ -- YES --┐
└─────────────────────────┘          │
           │                         |
           NO ---------- Wear whatever you want.

Can we end this derail now, please?
posted by wenestvedt at 1:10 PM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


Bow ties are cool.
posted by stolyarova at 15:09 on August 22


My work is such that I wear ties pretty much every day. A couple years ago I instituted a personal rule - Bow Tie Wednesday. It gives me a chance to show off the fact that I know how to tie a bow tie (I learned from this cute video), but more importantly, I almost never anymore have one of those "what day is it?" moments. Because now the answer to that question is always either on or one day away from a weekend, or on or one day away from Bow Tie Wednesday.

Bow Tie Wednesday, people. Make it happen.

sorry wenestvedt
posted by solotoro at 1:11 PM on August 22, 2016 [16 favorites]


┌─────────────────────────┐
│ "But bowties are coo—"  │            
└─────────────────────────┘
              | 
You *definitely* shouldn't wear that bowtie. And take off the hat.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:12 PM on August 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


┌─────────────────────────┐
│ Can we end this         |
│ derail now, please?     │ -- YES --┐
└─────────────────────────┘          │
           │                         |
           NO ---------- But you're still no fun.

posted by leotrotsky at 1:14 PM on August 22, 2016 [22 favorites]


If you look at my MeFi profile page, you'll see me in a bowtie.

I haven't worn one since. They are a pain in the ass to tie correctly.
posted by dw at 1:15 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


"It's ludicrous and no one is pointing it out. It's egregiously long. My guess is that he buys Italian ties (which often are longer because Italians like to tie up a big knot) but then he ties a regular knot — probably a half Windsor."

"Do you think maybe he's compensating for something?"

However one chooses to knot them, the back part of the tie must be the same length as the front, and one must stuff said back part through the loop on the back of the front part. I will not be dissuaded from this.

Some of us can't even do this with specially-made "extra long" ties. Too tall.
posted by zarq at 1:17 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I haven't worn one since. They are a pain in the ass to tie correctly.

You tie them just like a shoelace.


posted by leotrotsky at 1:19 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]




┌─────────────────────────┐
│ Are you Tucker Carlson?               │ -- YES ----> I AM SO SORRY.
└─────────────────────────┘
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:22 PM on August 22, 2016 [16 favorites]


Just because Tucker Carlson wears a bowtie does not mean he should wear a bowtie.

Tucker Carlson should not wear a bowtie.
posted by chrchr at 1:24 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]



Certain Trump Campaign Staffers Love Sharing Racist, Violent Memes.


FTA: "This is what "extreme vetting" gets you, I guess."

Oh somebody needs to run with that. Dude, extreme vetting? Donald, you can't even keep racist people out of your campaign. I know his surrogates can say anything, and they'd pull some nonsense-speak out of their asses, but I'd still love to see that put to them. "Donald Trump's 'extreme vetting' talk is nonsense since he couldn't keep racists out of his own campaign. Shitty Trump Surrogate - your thoughts?"

(I mean of course Trump is racist and ridiculous himself, but on national television they're still not operating under that reality yet).
posted by cashman at 1:26 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Tucker Carlson should not wear a bowtie.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:27 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Someone above mentioned looking for Jefferson '00 campaign materials. I was tempted to whip a bumper sticker up, so I looked for source material. Ran across this: "REPUBLICANS / turn out, turn out and Save Your Country from Ruin!"

By itself, that would be a great sticker. Any Republican would think it was speaking directly them and reflects exactly what they're thinking, #nevertrump or not.
posted by honestcoyote at 1:28 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]




One of the things I'm proud of, although it's through no effort or merit of my own, is that I know the main author/coordinator of the paper "More Ties than We Thought" (warning: PDF, lotsamaths), and in fact hosted him when he came to present it at a mathematics conference in Baltimore.

Certain candidates (and everyone else) could generate and adapt random ways to tie a tie knot from among the more-than-200000 possibilities using this webpage coded by the author, but said certain candidates would probably not want to since the author in question is from evil socialist Sweden.
posted by seyirci at 1:28 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Certain Trump Campaign Staffers Love Sharing Racist, Violent Memes.

For example, this guy.
posted by dersins at 1:29 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


I found Lyndon Johnson in a bowtie but he was still a senator.
posted by bukvich at 1:32 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


For example, this guy.

Yep I'm—amused isn't the right word, maybe...—flabbergasted that Trump's team is being raked over the coals for their shitty, racist Social Media Presence when Trump himself is the shittiest racistiest Twitterer of them all. Cheers to AP for really digging deep on a subject that was bad enough to be devastatingly newsworthy right on the surface of the matter.
posted by carsonb at 1:34 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Tucker Carlson has to be Tucker Carlson so I'm not going to begrudge him his bowtie if it's helping the pain.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:35 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]




You tie them just like a shoelace.

I ain't Maverick.
posted by dw at 1:39 PM on August 22, 2016


Vote for Hillary Clinton. She can be counted on to select the finest, most undetectable methods of murder. She has all the best hit operatives on speed dial. She sends 5,000 emails a day and deletes 6,000. She bends entire governments and media outlets to her fickle will through the power of her complete mental and physical incapacitation.
posted by zennie at 1:39 PM on August 22, 2016 [41 favorites]


GOP Subpoenas Firms That Ran Clinton's Private Email Server

Like, I am so sick of this "Clinton's email" shit, I'm wondering if there are ways to fight back. Like, could some person/persons/org wage an effort to FOIA every email ever sent or received by every Republican Congressman?
posted by dnash at 1:40 PM on August 22, 2016 [35 favorites]


It's just one guy on Twitter. But it's a good example of the kind of election day (and early election) harassment and voter intimidation Trump is already stirring up with his repeated false claims about 'voter fraud' and a rigged election.

Jesus take the motherfucking wheel. That dude's grandkids must be so proud of him.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:40 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Re: Coworkers reacting to political bumper stickers

In 08 I had an Obama sticker on my car. For the most part my workplace was politically quiet, full of truly religious Christian, but also majority POC. But there was a white woman who visited the office once a week who regularly gave me shit about my sticker. It was in a friendly, joking way, cause she thought she was really funny.

So one week I show up and she says "So did you notice anything about your car? Like, last week, after I was here?" And I see all the nearby coworkers are looking at me like they're in on the joke. I'm clueless. "Umm, no?" "You didn't notice AT ALL?" "Umm, no?" So they walk me out to my car to look at the back, where there is just my normal Obama bumper sticker and nothing weird.

She looks crestfallen. "Oh." Turns out she'd gone and stuck McCain bumper stickers on the cars of the two people with Obama stickers. But the one on my car had apparently fallen off without me ever seeing it.

So the moral of the story is that Republicans make shitty bumper stickers and also do asshole things like stick opposition stickers on other people's cars. (And the entire office agreed it was a dick move after she left.) (Actually I think my car's protective layer of dirt acted in my favor.)
posted by threeturtles at 1:42 PM on August 22, 2016 [39 favorites]


Delgado, the Florida organizer, circulated a theory that the company Edible Arrangements LLC is funneling money to Hamas, a claim that the Anti-Defamation League, a U.S. Jewish organization, has repeatedly dismissed as false.

This tidbit from the AP story at least made me smile. I had never heard this, but I know it's hard to understand why Edible Arrangements is ubiquitous. Still, "because it is a terrorist front" is not an explanation I would reach for.
posted by Countess Elena at 1:44 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Every time I visit the U.S. I'm struck by the extent to which Americans communicate with each other - and not just about politics - via bumper sticker.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:45 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Final word on bow ties: George Will
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:53 PM on August 22, 2016


George Will is no more a strong argument in favor of the bow tie than is Tucker Carlson.
posted by dersins at 1:56 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Fun story about bumper stickers:

Went to a small private school in the south full of "civilized" people.
One guy put one of those little darwin fishes on the bumper of his car.
It got ripped off and then smashed into pieces.
So a few weeks later the dude comes back to school with a giant decal covering his entire back window.
So that time they smashed his window.
Yaaaaay people suck.
posted by phunniemee at 1:59 PM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


The secret to rocking a bowtie is to wear it with a fur coat.
posted by vverse23 at 1:59 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


My wife and I went to see Nick Offerman and Megan Mullally last night in Pittsburgh. Early on in the show, they did a song about Trump. Not a highlight of the night comedy-wise by any means, it was ostensibly from the dystopian future where Trump becomes President, filled mostly low-hanging fruit about the wall, his small hands, etc.

Anyway, political material can always be a bit dicey in terms of the crowd reaction, and though I wouldn't expect a large contingent of Trump supporters for this kind of show, it occurred to me about halfway through the bit that a lot of people carry handguns in Western PA, and that there weren't any metal detectors on the way in.

The left-brained science-y part of me immediately stepped in and said "dude, don't be ridiculous, the chances of anything like that happening right here, right now are infinitesimal..." but I was still annoyed that my enjoyment of the show had to be ruined by the chance, however small, that one of Trump's unhinged supporters could be in the audience and take a comedy bit the wrong way.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:03 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Donald Trump says he will not make his taxes public but he may sport a bow tie after Labor Day
posted by Postroad at 2:04 PM on August 22, 2016


Jeffrey Tucker is my favorite political bow tie wearer. He even once wore one while swimming.
posted by stolyarova at 2:04 PM on August 22, 2016


I'm forever confusing Nick Offerman with the character he plays on Parks and Rec and expecting him to be a Trump supporter.
posted by peacheater at 2:05 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Ron Swanson would never support Donald Trump. Never. Trump is a statist in every sense of the term.
posted by stolyarova at 2:06 PM on August 22, 2016 [35 favorites]




Ron Swanson has written in the same candidate every election since maturity: "No one."
posted by schadenfrau at 2:27 PM on August 22, 2016 [27 favorites]


In Nevada, Ron Swanson would actually be able to cast his vote for None Of These Candidates, which I'm sure he'd enjoy.
posted by stolyarova at 2:31 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


What's going on here?

Poor health.
posted by Artw at 2:31 PM on August 22, 2016 [26 favorites]


For a few blessed moments until an explanation arrives, I'm just going to go ahead and assume he's planning to take John Oliver's advice to drop out.
posted by kelborel at 2:32 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Venue wanted to be paid upfront?
posted by cmfletcher at 2:33 PM on August 22, 2016 [49 favorites]


If Trump drops out too soon and the Republican Party is able to replace him on the ballot with someone who can actually defeat Hillary Clinton, I'm blaming John Oliver, that dirty foreigner.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:36 PM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


What's going on here?

#WheresDonald? Sleeping!!!!!
posted by dersins at 2:37 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Ron Swanson always votes for None of Your Goddamned Business.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:37 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


John Oliver is actually an American citizen. He's one of you, now.
posted by My Dad at 2:40 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


In a final effort to stop their candidate from tweeting once and for all until election night campaign management has chose to encase Donald Trump in carbonite. All live appearences of the candidate have been canceled until further notice.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 2:41 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


John Oliver is actually an American citizen. He's one of you, now.

No true American has spider fingers.
posted by sparklemotion at 2:42 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


John Oliver is actually an American citizen. He's one of you, now.

Are you sure? The Internet disagrees, says he is British citizen with American permanent residency.
posted by thefoxgod at 2:43 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]




Apparently he's cancelled Portland's rally, too. Giving up on states he isn't sure of winning?
posted by stolyarova at 2:45 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


John Oliver is actually an American citizen. He's one of you, now...

Are you sure? The Internet disagrees, says he is British citizen with American permanent residency.


Also has he been extreme vetted?
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:45 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Are you sure? The Internet disagrees, says he is British citizen with American permanent residency.

Either way, he got in before "extreme vetting" was put in place.
posted by infinitywaltz at 2:46 PM on August 22, 2016


"Kids: there's three ways to do things; the right way, the wrong way and the Donald Trump way!"

"Isn't that the wrong way?"

"Yeah, but fuck you."
posted by tonycpsu at 2:46 PM on August 22, 2016 [35 favorites]


Damn it, Atom Eyes!
posted by infinitywaltz at 2:47 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


If Trump has a health problem serious enough to drop him out, he has to be very ill indeed. The man is a Captain Ahab, without the broad education and sound philosophical grounding, and it would take a hospital bed to hold him back. I sincerely hope that is not the case. I don't want the GOP to get another chance to act like they're respectable enough for this election.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:47 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


(Within the last year he has said he was US PR, British citizen, so unless it changed very recently...)

"In October, Oliver was a guest on Stephen Colbert's Late Show. When Colbert asked him about voting, Oliver replied that he's unable to vote because of his lack of U.S. citizenship. (In case you missed it, Oliver is British.)"

I mean, I'd be happy to count him as an American either way if he wants.

Either way, he got in before "extreme vetting" was put in place.

Yes, I suspect he might not pass Trump's "test" for some reason...
posted by thefoxgod at 2:47 PM on August 22, 2016


Act 1: Trump donates $100,000 to Louisiana flood victims-- a church helping with flood relief-- how nice!
Act 2: Nope, actually donated $100,000 to the church of Pastor Tony Perkins, head of the Family Research Council, an anti-gay group listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center
Act 3: Nope, actually, the pastor says he was promised the money but Trump, per usual, has not yet paid


That's like seeing a car stalled on a railroad crossing get hit by an oncoming train — upsetting, yet entirely predictable.
posted by arcolz at 2:49 PM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


Damn it, Atom Eyes!

I feel your pain, infinitywaltz.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:51 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


John Oliver is actually an American citizen. He's one of you, now...

This is what I thought too, but I can't find a source for it now. He's got a green card and has been married to a US Citizen for more than 3 years so unless he's been spending too much time in England to qualify as a resident of NY he meets the general requirements for naturalization of spouses of US citizens. Except the good moral character part (*natch*).
posted by dis_integration at 2:52 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I've been in Reno for six weeks, did I miss anything?
posted by guiseroom at 2:54 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


He is a fan of Liverpool.
posted by cmfletcher at 2:54 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I was quite heartened to read that Tony " Hurricane Joaquin was a sign that God was angry about the legalization of gay marriage and abortion" Perkins had to flee his home in a canoe.

Looks like Trump had a fundraiser scheduled right after his now-canceled Las Vegas rally
. It will be interesting to find out if he is still going to the fundraisers but canceling the rallies.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:01 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


If I recall correctly, HRC will be having a rally in Reno very soon, guiseroom, so you'll be missing that! I'm thinking of going but not sure if my schedule will work around it. We'll see.
posted by stolyarova at 3:06 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Apparently he's cancelled Portland's rally, too.

Oh, please don't resign Mr Trump! Not until all the ballots are finalised.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:11 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Trump’s red-state tour:
With fewer than 80 days to go and lagging in the polls, the Republican nominee will host a rally Tuesday in Austin, Texas, and another on Wednesday in Jackson, Mississippi. Both cities sit inside strongly Republican states that are safe and uncompetitive.
...
“If you’re campaigning in Texas in the August before an election and are worried about losing Texas, you’re toast anyway,” said Brendan Steinhauser, an Austin-based conservative operative who expects Trump to win the state.
Trump's Austin rally is closest-to-election Texas foray by a presidential contender in two decades:
Donald Trump is staging two public campaign events in Austin on Tuesday, making his foray into Texas the closest to the general election by any major-party presidential nominee in two decades.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:12 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I very much doubt he's going to resign.

Donald Trump is staging two public campaign events in Austin on Tuesday.

He's just going to have a rally in a deep blue part of a deep red state.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:14 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]




There are whispers here in Texas that Hillary has a chance. The Trump signs and hats are few in the portions of Houston I have been in. Could it be, might it be, will there be an upset?
posted by Midnight Skulker at 3:15 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


If a John Oliver monologue can take down Sepp Blatter and Donald Trump, we have found the kwizatz haderach.
posted by cmfletcher at 3:16 PM on August 22, 2016 [24 favorites]


"Drumpf is a killing word."
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:17 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Isaac J. Bailey, at Politico Magazine: “How Trump Exposed America’s White Identity Crisis”

Politico has just been crushing it this whole season.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:18 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Following the Huffington Post's Banner "Just Shut It Down," Donald Trump issued a statement this morning;
“Hillary Clinton is the defender of the corrupt and rigged status quo. The Clintons have spent decades as insiders lining their own pockets and taking care of donors instead of the American people.

“It is now clear that the Clinton Foundation is the most corrupt enterprise in political history.

“What they were doing during Crooked Hillary’s time as Secretary of State was wrong then, and it is wrong now. It must be shut down immediately.”
The weird thing is that the only place I have seen referencing the HuffPo headline are Breitbart and Breitbart feeders and the HuffPo article that I linked to which refers to it very passively about 3/4 down the page:
On Sunday, the conservative website Breitbart News published an article highlighting a banner front page headline on the Huffington Post over the weekend, which referenced the foundation and "Just Shut It Down."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:25 PM on August 22, 2016


Apparently he's cancelled Portland's rally, too. Giving up on states he isn't sure of winning?

He's still fundraising in Seattle next week.
posted by dw at 3:28 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


He's just going to have a rally in a deep blue part of a deep red state.

He wants to be somewhere he can get a rabid, adoring crowd in the rally, but big protests outside. As an authoritarian "law & order" candidate, he needs disorder and violence to spread the fear he needs to win.
posted by chris24 at 3:31 PM on August 22, 2016 [20 favorites]




“He had never really had close friends. ... [In a June interview with the authors, h]e named – he put the names off the record – three men he had had business dealings with two or more decades before, men he had only rarely seen in recent years.” (p. 340-1)

I feel for Donald Trump. But then, I feel for the modern American man.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:33 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Either way, he got in before "extreme vetting" was put in place.

Sigh. We already have extreme vetting. (Perhaps you'd even call it "racial profiling.") Just ask the North African cabdriver I met yesterday who applied for permanent residence on an employment visa (as a web developer!) and waited 12 years for it to be granted, for one. The system is already plenty shat-up.

Source: I work for Immigration Services and take a lot of cabs, so the inevitable "What do you do?" question yields a fair number of anecdotes like this.
posted by psoas at 3:34 PM on August 22, 2016 [24 favorites]




Salon: Roger Stone has reached a new low — somehow: He claims Chelsea Clinton had 4 plastic surgeries to look less like “her daddy” Webb Hubbell

He is promoting the paperback edition of his book "The Clinton's War on Women."


Giuliani is leading chants of "Beat her!" here in Akron in response to chants of "Lock her up!"

There they go again with their plausible deniability. "We meant beat her in the polls, duh!" Except it sounds like they do mean beat her physically. Sickening and horrifying. I wondered if they would go beyond "Lock her up," because you have to be constantly ratcheting up the extremism in order to get the crowds going.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:39 PM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


Donald Trump’s new campaign CEO, Steve Bannon, berated Speaker Paul Ryan on his radio show last spring, repeatedly questioning whether Ryan was “manifestly unfit” to be president and saying the Wisconsin Republican was “rubbing his social-justice Catholicism in my face every second.”
Well I've seen batshit insanity after batshit insanity in this election but da fuck?. I've heard of Ryan being called a lot of things but a social-justice Catholic? Is it 1960? Is Ryan taking his orders from that renowned "liberal" Pope Francis?

Holy fucking shit every time I think I can't even it turns out they can even.
posted by Talez at 3:40 PM on August 22, 2016 [23 favorites]


Is Ryan taking his orders from that renowned "liberal" Pope Francis?

lbr tho, the zombie-eyed granny starver probably considers Il Papa to be a bleeding-heart Marxist traitor to his lord and savior supply-side Jesus
posted by zombieflanders at 3:47 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Some voting happens well before Election Day

Has a handy chart that shows both absentee ballot voting and in-person early voting. You will note that NC is top of the list with absentee ballots going out September 9 to any voter requesting one. You don't have to be absent.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:50 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Frank Lutz held a Trump (ex)voter focus group.

Highlights:

More than half would vote still vote for him if he stopped being batshit insane. Why would they give another chance? He's worse than Hillary right now but she's still pretty bad.

"Gotta get back to the issues"
back to... ok...

"He's too authentic now"

So yeah, this election isn't over by a long shot. I dread him going back to Trump's Greatest Hits on a reunion tour.
posted by Talez at 3:57 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Come to think of it, The Nashville Network and Trump News Network would have some serious overlap in terms of demographics...

In her dotage, Grandmother Biscuit became a fan of listening to the old-timey music of the Statler Brothers on their long-running show. I had realized years earlier that ads were aimed at the intended and expected audience (no ads for feminine hygiene products on ESPN during NFL games, not many ads for Black and Decker on Showtime movies, e.g.) but I was astonished at the number of ads for products for the removal of impacted ear wax on TNN.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:03 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Frank Lutz held a Trump (ex)voter focus group
...
More than half would vote still vote for him if he stopped being batshit insane. Why would they give another chance? He's worse than Hillary right now but she's still pretty bad.


I just don't understand this. These people are baffling. They're trying so hard to find reasons to still sort-of support Trump. If he's done things in the past that have made you decide he's not fit for office, how do you forgive him for those past actions just because he gets on message for a little while? We're not talking about stuff he did in 1980 vs what he's doing today. We're talking about a few weeks ago. If I walk into a job interview without pants on, practicing a bit of self-abuse, you don't decide to hire me because I show up the next day with pants on.
posted by dis_integration at 4:06 PM on August 22, 2016 [39 favorites]


Oh, he's not going to run it [the possible new network]. Ailes and/or Bannon will run it.

I understand Ailes was saddled with a pretty ironclad non-compete clause from Fox, so he has about 3.9 years left before he could officially have a hand in television again.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:07 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


For a moment I got Frank Lutz confused with John Lutz from 30 Rock and expected that focus group to be wildly different.
posted by guiseroom at 4:08 PM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Trump's Mirror:
Hillary ClintonDonald Trump is the defender of the corrupt and rigged status quo. The ClintonsTrumps have spent decades as insiders lining their own pockets and taking care of donorsRussian oligarchs and New Jersey mobsters instead of the American peopletheir investors, employees and customers.

“It is now clear that the Clinton FoundationTrump Organization is the most corrupt enterprise in politicaleconomic history.

“What they were doing during Crooked Hillary’s time as Secretary of StateDishonest Donald's entire adult life was wrong then, and it is wrong now. It must be shut down immediately.”
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:09 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


He's just going to have a rally in a deep blue part of a deep red state.

He wants to be somewhere he can get a rabid, adoring crowd in the rally, but big protests outside. As an authoritarian "law & order" candidate, he needs disorder and violence to spread the fear he needs to win.


True, but I think it's a fair question (as usual) as to whether the vulgar talking yam is cunning and/or smart enough to do that sort of thing intentionally.

Given his general lack of ground game organization, I'm having the increasing suspicion that a lot of these rallies are basically "requests" - the initial idea and set-up work is done independently by local Trump supporters (like, say, 25 suburban-Austinites hopping mad that they live in "libtard" country and want to show those bleeding heart wusses what's what) who then contact the campaign with a venue and choice of dates. Which would, via Trump's Razor, go some way towards explaining why he seems to be holding these rallies in random non-strategic places - the campaign isn't really doing much besides waiting for someone to contact them with half the work already done. It isn't seasoned political operatives deciding where a rally is held, it's your crazy Uncle Bob and ten of his racist buddies who want to piss off their liberal neighbors.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:19 PM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


Josh Marshall has some analysis on the cancelled immigration speech: Did Trumpers Just Hit an Immigration Wall?
Over the last few days Donald Trump met with a new Hispanic advisory group. When group members emerged they seemed to say he was considering reneging on his vaunted promise to deport 3% of the US population (11 million undocumented immigrants). [...]

So what is happening?

Put this down as knowledgable speculation.

What seems clear is that Conway realizes that the deportation plan - and the generally harsh hate campaign against immigrants, legal and undocumented, is untenable politically. [...]

It sounds like what happened is that the campaign thought they had some way to square this un-squarable circle but then realized it simply wouldn't fly. [...]

I suspect strongly that the campaign abruptly canceled this speech because they realized that they haven't come up with a way yet to do the impossible: jettison the core message of his campaign without appearing to do so. So they'll keep trying.
I really don't see how they could back off this inhumane "policy" promise because the whole campaign is truly premised on it. The Republican Party can't just unsay the hateful things that have come out of their top members' mouths.

P.S. "I endorse support the Republican nominee" counts as hateful in my book this year. Looking at you Speaker Ryan.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:20 PM on August 22, 2016 [22 favorites]


This Mother Jones article from 2015 has merit in this election season, especially where Donald Trump has threatened to rewrite the slander and libel laws as they apply to the press.

This was an interesting case in that it was heard in Bonneville County, Idaho, a very conservative county in a highly conservative state. The plaintiff filed suit, deliberately asking for $1 less than the dollar figure which would have put the suit into federal court. That served to keep the case in the state court. Oddly, though, a jury of his peers in this conservative area didn't find that Mother Jones was in error. It was a win for the press against a billionaire who didn't like truthful coverage and could afford to bring suit.

There is hope, then, that journalists will continue to investigate and write about newsworthy people and events, whoever or whatever they might be. One hopes that the journalists work for insured organizations as fighting a lawsuit isn't cheap. Some states have anti-SLAPP laws which can sometimes help recover a defendant's legal costs.
posted by Silverstone at 4:21 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Katy Tur: Trump rally crowds are def smaller but the enthusiasm is as strong as ever. Like boiling down a good sauce, you concentrate the flavor

"Enthusiasm." That's one way of describing the seething volcano of hatred that is a Trump hate fest crowd. But if the crowds get smaller how will he continue to pretend that he will win "in a landslide." He has told us that the polls are no good, you have to go by the "tens of thousands" of people at his rallies.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:24 PM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


I understand Ailes was saddled with a pretty ironclad non-compete clause from Fox

So they set up shop in CA.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:25 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


So the Klan Trump rally today started early. Trying to catch up. Not going to post multiple posts because I'm honestly over giving this human cheeto more than a cursory update of the bullshit he's up to.

He's back to the greatest hits without a teleprompter. Second set is linking Clinton to Russia, pay-for-play. He's trying to mix left-wing populism in with his racism. Crocodile tears over Ericsson selling Iran telecom spy equipment. Calling Clinton a bigot then immediately go to extreme vetting but since they're "tolerant values" it's ok even though his supporters don't agree with them one bit.

And Extreme vetting. Another "what the hell do you have to lose?" rhetorical question for the minorities. Getting rid of the crime. You'll be able to walk down the street without getting shot. More "what the hell do you have to lose?". More "inclusive American future".

Education needs competition. We love our teachers that's why I want to scrap tenure which only protects bad teachers but we love our teachers. Broken system is throwing money at Hillary Clinton. Playing reformed powerbroker. Now he's fighting for us™.

Government of the media-donor-political complex has to be replaced with a government of, by and the people. *Huge cheers*. Reject bigotry and hatred, reject oppression. Everyone at the rally behind him is still white. Go out and watch, "you know what I'm talking about" dogwhistle. He wants to be our champion.

So yeah, we're back to Trump being Trump after LOW ENERGY BTFO™ Teleprompter Trump. He's taking the most appealing parts of right-wing and left-wing populism to each side and mashing them together albeit crudely. This is what he needs to bring those lost sheep back to the flock and bring in lost liberals and it's scary. This staking of both sides of populism in a not-completely-hamfisted way. He consistently frames himself as the people's champion at the end of every set of talking points.

It's thoroughly uncomfortable to watch. It makes it more difficult to argue that Trump stands for basically bigotry and hate because the instant retort is "but Trump said he rejects bigotry and hatred".
posted by Talez at 4:27 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Ali Vitali: More Trump: "I'll straighten it out...you can walk down the street w/o getting shot. Now you walk down the street, you get shot."

Who is doing the walking and who is doing the shooting? Because I don't think he is talking about Black pedestrians being shot by the police for no good reason. Yet you don't hear too much about white people strolling along and getting shot by bad guys. Is that happening anywhere? or is that one of those "feels" over "facts"?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:29 PM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


OH! I FOUND FOUR BLACK PEOPLE IN THE POST-RALLY FEED! It's like seeing a fucking unicorn on tape.
posted by Talez at 4:29 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


"When I say watch, you know what I'm talking about."

This is damn near as bad as the Second Amendment remark - no, honestly, I think it's worse. Hardly anyone can get close to Hillary or judicial nominees, but anyone can go to a polling place.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:29 PM on August 22, 2016 [27 favorites]


76 days to unsnarl a chimera of rhetoric. I'm not even sure the best of the best could save Trump. The only thing going for him is the misogynist hate of Hillary. And even that seems to have bottomed out.
posted by dw at 4:32 PM on August 22, 2016


>and they had I think four little toe-headed sons

If you mean notably or excessively light blond hair, the phrase is tow-headed. Otherwise you place an extraordinary image before my mind's eye.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:32 PM on August 22, 2016 [28 favorites]


Sopan Deb: Trump: "You’ve gotta get everybody to go out & watch... when I say watch, you know what I’m talking about, right?"

He is also promising the crowd that he is going to win in a landslide. I, too, would like to know what he means by "you know what I'm talking about."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:32 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I'm not even sure the best of the best could save Trump.

They can't and he knows it. That's why he's calling on the worst of the worst.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:33 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Who is doing the walking and who is doing the shooting?... Is that happening anywhere? or is that one of those "feels" over "facts"?

Walk into any retirement home, and you'll find a frightening number of older voters who sincerely believe walking down the street is tantamount to painting a target on your back. I'll give you a couple of guesses what their daily media diet consists of.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:36 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Isn't it some kind of civil rights violation to just hang out at the polls harassing voters?
posted by thelonius at 4:38 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


We're long since past the point of Godwin so I'm just going to go ahead and ask people to read up on how the Nazis spent election day.
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:41 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Like, the original 1930's Nazis, I mean.
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:42 PM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]




Isn't it some kind of civil rights violation to just hang out at the polls harassing voters?

Depends on the race of the person hanging around intimidating/harassing voters.
posted by dis_integration at 4:42 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


I suspect strongly that the campaign abruptly canceled this speech because they realized that they haven't come up with a way yet to do the impossible: jettison the core message of his campaign without appearing to do so.

All illegal immigrants are required to "self-deport" to the nearest Immigration office, which will have some sort of ginned-up extraterritoriality. There the "good ones" will be able to pass through the "door" in the "The Wall" which is the name for the "extreme vetting" system and get some kind of resident status. A core part of "The Wall" will be background checks run on the Mexican (etc...) gov't databases - which Mexico ALREADY PAID FOR.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 4:43 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Walk into any retirement home, and you'll find a frightening number of older voters who sincerely believe walking down the street is tantamount to painting a target on your back. I

Also: People who live in exurban and rural areas where their local media market is the nearest city. I experienced this when I lived in rural Maryland. People really thought that going into DC meant you were going to get shot, because they turned on the "local" news every night and it was just 30 minutes of all the violent crimes committed in the District that day.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:43 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Amy Robach apologizing for using the phrase "colored people" in 2016.

Because it's apparently the '50s again even the breakfast TV anchors are getting in on the "fun"!
posted by Talez at 4:44 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Certain Trump Campaign Staffers Love Sharing Racist, Violent Memes.

While he has been politically active for decades—originally as a leftist, he said—


You read that last line a lot in descriptions of Right wing nutjobs, and have for decades. This is why I have no time at all for the burn it down Leftists, I know where they're going.
posted by bongo_x at 4:44 PM on August 22, 2016 [24 favorites]


Time: Donald Trump Calls for Special Prosecutor to Investigate Hillary Clinton
Donald Trump called for a special prosecutor to investigate Hillary Clinton, saying the FBI and Department of Justice can’t be trusted to be impartial.

“The amounts involved, the favors done and the significant numbers of times it was done require an expedited investigation by a special prosecutor immediately, immediately, immediately,” Trump said in Akron, Ohio, of the State Department under Clinton, adding the “immediately’s” to his prepared remarks. “After the FBI and Department of Justice whitewash of the Clinton email crimes, they certainly cannot be trusted to quickly or impartially investigate Hillary Clinton’s new crimes, which happen all the time.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:46 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm not convinced that they actually were leftists any more than I'm convinced that Alberto Rivera really was a Catholic or Mike Warnke really was a Satanist.
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:46 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Isn't it some kind of civil rights violation to just hang out at the polls harassing voters?

Sure there are, and most states have laws about it too, the problem is enforcement. Especially when it's the police doing the harassment, and with 70% plus of cops supporting Trump, enforcement is not likely to be strong. When I did poll watching for OFA in Missouri, the cops would drive by every 30 minutes or so spreading the word that they were enforcing child support warrants at the polling place (in overwhelmingly black St. Louis city), that didn't make the news, and as far as I know, no one was ever charged. But over in lily white St. Charles, nothing at all like that.

Depends on the race of the person hanging around intimidating/harassing voters.

Yea, basically this.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:46 PM on August 22, 2016 [23 favorites]


Isn't it some kind of civil rights violation to just hang out at the polls harassing voters?

Depends on how you define "harassing." A dozen big boys in Trump t-shirts just hanging around the entry to the polls and chatting while open-carrying? Probably doesn't meet the standard in many locales.

I won't be surprised if a lot of local authorities are stretched thin on election day, trying to respond to a lot of...active observing.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:48 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Amy Robach apologizing for using the phrase "colored people" in 2016.

TBF, the NAACP does it daily.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:48 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Well we knew this was going to happen: Donald Trump supporters retaliate, launch naked statues of Hillary Clinton

Christ. This will be a note in one of those Naked History books 50 years from now.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:48 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Jesus Christ that is the grossest white bullshit, T.D. Which way did that district go?
posted by Countess Elena at 4:48 PM on August 22, 2016


TBF, the NAACP does it daily.

The NAACP has been around since black people were called colored in every day vernacular. I'll give them a pass.
posted by Talez at 4:50 PM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


WaPo: Kaine accuses Trump of advancing a ‘king of debt’ tax shelter to help himself
Kaine seized on what he called a “king of debt” tax shelter during a pair of appearances here in Nevada, a battleground state, keying off news reports last week about a little-noticed aspect of Trump’s emerging tax plan.

The senator from Virginia accused Trump of “a kind of tax trickery” that, in some cases, would mean taxpayers were subsiding Trump’s real estate investments, which are often financed through borrowing.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:52 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


I'm not convinced that they actually were leftists any more than I'm convinced that Alberto Rivera really was a Catholic or Mike Warnke really was a Satanist.

Yes, but there's a good chance they were very vocally so at some point, until the Left let them down. But I look at them kind of like the one guy at the action group who really wants to take more direct action and is totally not an FBI agent.
posted by bongo_x at 4:52 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Jesus Christ that is the grossest white bullshit, T.D. Which way did that district go?

St Louis City is like the DC of Missouri, it goes for Democrats reliably by 20+ points every time. But Missouri went for McCain by less than 4000 votes, and I'm sure they were mostly interested in suppressing the statewide totals.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:54 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]






There are volunteer groups like Election Protection that help defend voting rights. I'm not sure what can be done about intimidation though.
posted by Surely This at 4:57 PM on August 22, 2016


He is undermining democracy and I'm so mad about it. I'm even more mad about it because he's not even doing it for some Republican agenda or clever evil scheme, he's just doing it for his own monstrous ego.
posted by yasaman at 5:06 PM on August 22, 2016 [44 favorites]


St Louis City is like the DC of Missouri

It's basically Baltimore West. Independent city, port, ground rents, etc.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:08 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]




This is in the UK with strict libel laws but no one in their right minds would initiate a suit like this while involved in a presidential campaign:

Melania Trump is set to sue the Daily Mail.
posted by rdr at 5:13 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


I guess no one ever told Melania about the Streisand Effect...
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 5:15 PM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


Catching up on today's rally (here, if you must).
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:21 PM on August 22, 2016


and with 70% plus of cops supporting Trump,

Please don't cite bullshit faux-statistics. The article you linked even says that 70% is one dude's personal estimate based on his interactions with some Chicago police officers following the cancelled Trump rally:
It should be pointed out that this number is not official polling and was simply based off of one man’s interaction with members of the Chicago law enforcement community.
So no, 70%+ of cops do not support Donald Trump.
posted by LooseFilter at 5:22 PM on August 22, 2016 [27 favorites]


I have decided to assume she was drunk-texting and act like I didn't get them

Me, essentially. Re: Anything my brother ever texts me.
posted by kythuen at 5:26 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


So no, 70%+ of cops do not support Donald Trump.

That is as baseless as the original assertion.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:34 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Fine, it's not a scientific number, I'd love to see a poll of law enforcement, because I'd bet a lot the real number is not far off that.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:37 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I think we all know what loosefilter meant is "there is absolutely no evidence to support the claim that 70% of cops support Donald Trump". Like if I say that ghosts do not exist I'm not actually claiming I can scientifically prove that ghosts don't exist, only that there is no evidence that they do.
posted by Justinian at 5:37 PM on August 22, 2016 [35 favorites]


I don't know UK libel laws (I know they're stricter than US laws, which require falsehood), but I suspect she's going to have a very hard time going after the Daily Mail - all the article says is that multiple other sources (it gives details) claim that her modeling agency provided escorts as well as models. At no point does it say she was one of them.

If she wants to pursue legal action against people who think her modeling career was shady, she really, really needs to provide documentation of her right to work in the US in 1995.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:41 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


From what I understand, there aren't normally polls of law enforcement personnel. However, fwiw, we do have a survey (NB: not a scientific poll) of the armed forces by Military Times from May 2016 that showed a bit more than half supported Trump, a quarter supported Hillary, and a fifth chose "would not vote".
posted by mhum at 5:51 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


"Mrs. Trump has placed several news organizations on notice of her legal claims against them, including Daily Mail among others, for making false and defamatory statements about her supposedly having been an “escort” in the 1990s,"

Good move. I've never even heard that story until now.
posted by bongo_x at 5:55 PM on August 22, 2016 [26 favorites]


And this is the man who now wants to court the black vote? Puh-leese

He's not courting the Black vote. He's making non-Black, right-leaning voters who claim to be uncomfortable with his blatant bigotry feel better about voting for him. Because see, he's reaching out to Black people. A racist wouldn't do that, would they?

I don't know about his ground game or lack thereof but all of a sudden Trump ads started appearing in several Android apps I use fairly regularly. Not sure what to make of it.
posted by fuse theorem at 5:56 PM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


Northern CA: I work in a super blue college town and recently moved to a much more purplish ag town, and it's Hillary stickers all over the place in both. I'm headed up into the mountains in a couple days, though, and am really curious to see how the distribution changes.

Regrettably, I must amend my previous bumper sticker check-in. At the fancy-ish grocery store near my house, I just saw a little old white man in a pickup with a bumper sticker that said "Life's a Bitch. Don't vote for one." (With Hillary's picture on it, lest you be confused.) Yes, it made me angry. Not angry to the point of vandalism, but certainly to the point of wishing I had a cape and superpowers and could incinerate his pathetic, wizened little shell with a casual glance of my eye lasers.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:00 PM on August 22, 2016 [21 favorites]


I guess no one ever told Melania about the Streisand Effect...

Forget Streisand. She's Becking herself.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:02 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


That article above, about the naked statues of Hillary Clinton, doesn't have any links in it, and the pictures don't look real. I think maybe it's bullshit?
posted by Spathe Cadet at 6:03 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Yeah, it's two paintings and a photoshopped statue. Totes real.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:08 PM on August 22, 2016


That article above, about the naked statues of Hillary Clinton, doesn't have any links in it, and the pictures don't look real. I think maybe it's bullshit?

Looks like they photoshopped the Seattle Trump statue. If there really were a Hillary statue, you know the Stranger would be all over that.
posted by dw at 6:08 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Rachel Maddow on the Trump campaign: "Whatever they're trying to sell us; I don't know how to redeem it for anything of value."

Well, then.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:08 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Also: People who live in exurban and rural areas where their local media market is the nearest city. I experienced this when I lived in rural Maryland. People really thought that going into DC meant you were going to get shot, because they turned on the "local" news every night and it was just 30 minutes of all the violent crimes committed in the District that day.

"We find our viewers are more interested in urban crime creeping into the suburbs. What that means is a victim or victims, preferably well-off and/or white, injured at the hands of the poor, or a minority."
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 6:10 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


I could tell the "Hillary Nude Statues" article was fishier than week-old sushi when I read the absurdly false-equivalency subhead: "The two contenders battling for Obama's office have at different times assassinated each other's character in order to garner huge followership and support." Also, the site's TLD is .ng - Nigeria... probably written by a member of the Prince's own staff.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:13 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


As of the rally today, he's still building the wall. And Mexico is still paying for it. And it will go up so fast your head will spin, apparently. Don't worry, he says. Don't worry.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:16 PM on August 22, 2016


I could tell the "Hillary Nude Statues" article was fishier than week-old sushi when I read the absurdly false-equivalency subhead:

I just figured the original reporting was NPR or something.

also i have been in this election too long now please help send the search and rescue teams please thank you help
posted by Spathe Cadet at 6:18 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


>Jennifer Jacobs: Trump this morning on Fox: Clinton has "a fairly good chance of being president." Trump tonight in Ohio: "I think we’re going to win big."

Trump's Mirror in action again . . .
posted by flug at 6:25 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Don’t worry, he says. Don’t worry.

The election, in less than a tweet.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:26 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Dishonest Donnie will never give up on The Great Wall of Trump because, as he explained early on, it will benefit from his "experience in building things", meaning: he's going to the the primary contractor. Cha Ching!!! Even if it goes no farther than a couple miles in Texas, his personal profit will be YUGE, no matter who gets left with the bill.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:27 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Totally unrelated guys, but I'm just watching the (excellent) 2081, a short based on Vonnegut's Harrison Bergeron. The person who plays the handicapper general went on to become a Fox talking head and political commentator. Just blew my mind. Whoever cast that film either recognized her mercenary ruthlessness or created a minor monster.
posted by porpoise at 6:33 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


with 70% plus of cops supporting Trump,

Woah woah, is there some other reference to that because that link says the number was farted out by Ex-NYPD and current "self-styled, right-wing media commentator" John Cardillo. Sooo.

and yes I realise that goes to the dailymail.co.uk. The "70% of cops" is still thin-air crap afaict
posted by petebest at 6:37 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Poor health.

As the (self-)designated Trump schedule-looker-upper, I thought that some of the western dates on the calendar, combining fundraisers with rallies, might test his comfort zone in terms of requiring him to spend the night somewhere not his own property. Last week seemed to be have more on the calendar than previous weeks, and this week is pulling back from that. (Apparently the Tahoe fundraiser is still scheduled for Friday evening, but not the Vegas rally.) Maybe he's just sick of lunch fundraisers.

Also interesting that Pence is scheduled back in Charlotte and Wilmington only a week after Trump was in Charlotte and Fayetteville.
posted by holgate at 6:38 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'd love to see a poll of law enforcement, because I'd bet a lot the real number is not far off that.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:37 PM on 8/22


You're saying that if we were able to find a representative poll of all police employees in the us you think the majority of that mass of people would be voting for trump? I will take that bet for any amount you propose. Memail for terms.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:38 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


(Singing)New threaaaaaaaaaaaaD!!! (Button pops off my shirt) (Windows shatter)
(Wig falls off, revealing horns)
(A kite tumbles out of the sky)
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:41 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Even if it goes no farther than a couple miles in Texas, his personal profit will be YUGE, no matter who gets left with the bill.

Dunno...I think Donnie's been chewing too much of the maca root.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 6:42 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Goodnight Mr and Mrs Overton, wherever you are.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:42 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


You're saying that if we were able to find a representative poll of all police employees in the us you think the majority of that mass of people would be voting for trump?

I'm saying that. Let's find a suitable poll and we'll talk.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:43 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


It's about what I'd guess, TBH. Sorry cops, you do not have not-falling-for-Trump like qualities.
posted by Artw at 6:44 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'm just wondering if, by May of next year, this is all a head-scratching and 'Yeah, wtf was that all about?!' and we're talking about the new SC nominee and the bill floated for including a public option in the ACA and a different one for a new Voting Rights Act.

Don't wake me, people. Let me dream.
posted by eclectist at 6:45 PM on August 22, 2016 [26 favorites]


Just out of curiosity, for comparison's sake, does anyone know how to find out the lowest % chance Romney ever hit at 538?
posted by tzikeh at 6:46 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


We will be in a happy world of complaining how awful Clinton is.
posted by Artw at 6:47 PM on August 22, 2016 [26 favorites]


Tzikeh - the chart here may help?
posted by Artw at 6:49 PM on August 22, 2016


To answer Potomac avenue, and potentially continue the derail on police and voting: newsweek, citing government stats has white sworn officers at 73%, some of whom are women. If they vote like other Americans based solely on race and gender, that might only be .6 × .73 or 40% or so! Maybe less!

(I admit to also finding this counterintuitive. )
posted by gregglind at 6:50 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Just out of curiosity, for comparison's sake, does anyone know how to find out the lowest % chance Romney ever hit at 538?

538 2012.

Apart from the final week when the polls started to really tighten in favor of Obama, it was 12.9% on October 4th.
posted by Talez at 6:51 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


You're saying that if we were able to find a representative poll of all police employees in the us you think the majority of that mass of people would be voting for trump?

Police are 89% white in America. And 87% male. The one group that Trump does well with is white males, leading in most polls by high single digits even with his recent downturn.

This bet is not the slam dunk you think it is.
posted by chris24 at 6:52 PM on August 22, 2016 [20 favorites]


Apart from the final week when the polls started to really tighten in favor of Obama, it was 12.9% on October 4th.

What's that inflection in October? Debate?
posted by ftm at 6:54 PM on August 22, 2016


Plus, you know, high percentage weirdo authoritarian types with chips on their shoulders and a few racial issues.
posted by Artw at 6:55 PM on August 22, 2016 [18 favorites]


What's that inflection in October? Debate?

Prior to October 4th was the fallout from the 47% video. Post-October 4th climb it was Obama's disastrous performance in the first debate.
posted by Talez at 6:56 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Come to think of it, I think there's a pretty good reason why there aren't typically polls of law enforcement. In order to conduct a scientifically sound poll, you'd need to be able to contact a reasonably reliable random sample from the known universe of participants. Unfortunately, I imagine that between zillions of metropolitan, county, and state (and maybe even federal if you want to throw the FBI/DEA/ATF/Secret Service/etc... into the mix) law enforcement agencies, it might be somewhere between difficult and impossible to even accurately specify the known universe of cops. I'd guess that probably the relevant police unions and/or city/county/state governments would have the best information about police rolls, but assembling all of these at the national level would likely be mind-bogglingly expensive, time-consuming, and/or labor-intensive -- even if these organizations were willing to provide this information, which is by no means guaranteed.
posted by mhum at 6:57 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


72% white per the Newsweek link. And that's just racial makeup of the police force, not a political poll (I read it as the latter, the first time through)
posted by petebest at 6:58 PM on August 22, 2016


Thank you! Here's hoping a bad debate can still hurt in our post-truth, post-intellect atmosphere.
posted by ftm at 6:58 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


(Even using chris24's stats, and a 3:1 trump advantage among white males, it's 58% of cops for trump. Assuming 0 trump for women and monorities)
posted by gregglind at 6:58 PM on August 22, 2016


From "Did Trumpers Just Hit an Immigration Wall": Taj MaWall
posted by kirkaracha at 6:59 PM on August 22, 2016


Police are 89% white in America.

My bad, I thought the page I was on was giving summary info, but was a portion of the data. Overall in the study Whites are 73%, so close to the Newsweek number.
posted by chris24 at 7:01 PM on August 22, 2016




(Even using chris24's stats, and a 3:1 trump advantage among white males, it's 58% of cops for trump. Assuming 0 trump for women and monorities)


Now that we're at 8% difference, let's add geography. In what states are most police employees (not just officers) employed?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:02 PM on August 22, 2016


*raises hand excitedly*

The most populous bluelilest ones!
posted by petebest at 7:07 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


As a person who unintentionally helped to start it, can we let go of the hypothetical 'how many police officers are for Trump' derail? My original point, as was clarified, was that something was cited as a statistic in a comment, when it was really just some guy's guess after talking to some people in one town. That is bad faith conversation, especially by the standards of this site.

It's irrelevant that the "statistic" was about cops supporting Trump. What's relevant is that what was asserted as an empirical statement, with a link for attribution, was in fact made up bullshit. That's not cool, and should be called out, so I did.
posted by LooseFilter at 7:11 PM on August 22, 2016 [20 favorites]


LooseFilter, I totally forgive you giving me the chance to solve an Internet debate using my phone calculator!

More stunning to me: Trump might not even win the police vote. Demographics are that far against him!
posted by gregglind at 7:17 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Friday night they'll be dressed to kill
Down at the MeFi Bar 'n' Grill
The drink will flow and the polls will spill
And if the boys want to fight, you better let 'em

posted by petebest at 7:18 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Wow, James Carville is on fire defending the Clinton Foundation and talking about the good work it does on Anderson Cooper. And he's right - the conservatives aided by the media probably will succeed in shutting it down and it really will be a bad thing for the world.
posted by peacheater at 7:25 PM on August 22, 2016 [21 favorites]


Donald Trump Still Supports Mass Deportation for Undocumented Immigrants:
Speaking to Fox News’ Bill O’Reilly, Trump reiterated that he would deport undocumented immigrants en masse if elected president.

“The first thing we are going to do, if and when I win, we are going to get rid of all of the bad ones. We have gang members, we have killers. We have a lot of bad people that have to get out of this country. We are going to get them out,” he said. “They are going to be out of this country so fast your head will spin.”
...
And while he barely mentioned immigration in his speech, he again advocated for an “immigration screening test to keep people out of our country who don’t support our tolerant values.”
No tolerance for people who don't support our tolerant values!
posted by kirkaracha at 7:26 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Ugh - so Trump currently at 25% is way up on Romney. I wish I could drink.
posted by tzikeh at 7:28 PM on August 22, 2016


No tolerance for people who don't support our tolerant values!

Except for people already here who are obviously grandfathered in.
posted by Talez at 7:28 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Anchor Grannies
posted by wabbittwax at 7:31 PM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


No tolerance for people who don't support our tolerant values!

Given that plenty of folks are glad to argue that they don’t have to tolerate other peoples’ intolerance, lambasting Trump for this seems rather in bad faith.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:32 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


One thing I don't get about the Foundation bruhaha and how it's being spun as soooo much worse than anything Trump has ever done is that... it's a charity? The pay-for-play being accused is not pay-Hillary-for-play but rather pay-charity-for-play which, while not awesome if true (though I've said before but a whole fuckload of giving to charity by corporations, wealthy individuals and governments is only partially altruistic and the rest is PR/meeting the right people/hoping to be able to call the favor back in later), is also not enriching the Clintons personally in any way. Every time Trump or his surrogates talk about it, they are talking about it like people are just sliding cash in fat envelopes over to HIllary so she can spend it on hookers and blow and like... no, it's an international NGO? That does real things? I know not to look for logic anywhere in here but it's just another case of "repeat something enough times and people will believe it" and it's starting to feel like the leaving out of the crucial detail that the Clinton Foundaiton is a charity is having the desired memetic effect.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:34 PM on August 22, 2016 [23 favorites]


Ugh - so Trump currently at 25% is way up on Romney. I wish I could drink.

Nope. On August 22 of 2012, Romney stood at 33.3%. Trump is waaaaay down on Romney, and has consistently been so. Indeed, Obama didn’t break 70% odds of victory until August 29. Trump sucks.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:36 PM on August 22, 2016 [24 favorites]


Well it looks like the press have been muckracking like hell because now it looks like they've got Melania dead to rights lying under oath.
posted by Talez at 7:38 PM on August 22, 2016 [19 favorites]


One thing I don't get about the Foundation bruhaha and how it's being spun as soooo much worse than anything Trump has ever done is that... it's a charity?

The unspoke assumption here would be that the Clintons are pulling piles of money out of their foundation. Also, pay-for-play is pay-for-play, regardless of how many additional modifiers one inserts.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:38 PM on August 22, 2016


The Clintons are not pulling piles of money out of there foundation. In fact they contributed a million.
posted by peacheater at 7:40 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Meh... I don't care one bit about Melania. There's enough on Trump and his campaign to take him down ten times over.
posted by mochapickle at 7:41 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Ugh I wish the Melania stuff would stop (not talking about people here, but the press). None of the stuff thats being alleged is an issue in any way other than just nastiness. The closest you could get would be the immigration stuff, but I don't think some "gotcha" on Trump marrying someone who maybe violated immigration laws is going to matter to anyone who would vote for him.

(And lets be honest here, both candidates have issues with spouses lying under oath apparently....)
posted by thefoxgod at 7:41 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


The Clintons are not pulling piles of money out of there foundation. In fact they contributed a million.

Look, that is a fact, and a fact has no place in a conspiracy theory debate. You’d be better off alleging that they pulled out a million dollars to put in another, more secret foundation that did entirely unrelated charitable work.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:42 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


(Alternately, you could assume that the Clinton foundation’s charitable ends are actually evil, as was done with ACORN. It must be bad, because it’s the Clintons.)
posted by Going To Maine at 7:44 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Well, there's no real evidence of pay-for-play anyway, and by using that terminology it elides the fact that the thing theoretically getting paid was not the thing that is theoretically able to give play.

So many Twitter eggs replying to that AC360 clip spouting completely made-up figures like they are facts. I just... really don't know what to do about living in a society where people think they are entitled to their own facts just because they're entitled to their own opinions. Or maybe they're all Russian trolls. I don't even know anymore.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:46 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Ugh I wish the Melania stuff would stop (not talking about people here, but the press).

Jacobin: The media’s coverage of Melania Trump has been rife with stereotypes about Eastern European women
posted by teponaztli at 7:52 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Poor health.

I was thinking about this earlier - Trump's record of projection and bringing up Hillary's heath, his weird doctor's note, the spray tans, his needing to fly off the the Fortress of Trumptitude every night and now a bunch of canceled stuff (though the Josh Marshal thing logically explains the motivations for that). Is he maybe having kidney issues?
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:56 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Has Evan McMullen chosen a Vice Presidential candidate yet? Because Martin O'Malley is probably looking for something to do, and he'd really balance the ticket out.
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:56 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Someone brought that up as a possibility in the last thread, Kid Charlegmagne. I don't think this sort of thing would be the reason.

Several dialysis modalities are portable -- you can tote a dialysis machine with you pretty easily, especially if you have the resources Trump does.
posted by mochapickle at 7:59 PM on August 22, 2016


The only true Vice President for Egg McMuffin is Hash Brown Potatoes.
posted by mmoncur at 8:00 PM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


re the Clinton Foundation: as discussed on past threads, the post-presidency is a weird space, and conservatives are much more comfortable with a gentle retirement (Reagan, for health reasons; both Bushes for different reasons) than with Carter and Clinton using their position as elder statesmen with a lot of international respect to get shit done around the world.

There's clearly an element of transactional politics -- i.e. put your money where your mouth is if you want collective action on a particular issue -- but for fuck's sake, the GOP votes for transactional politicians all the time who have blatantly more nefarious goals.
posted by holgate at 8:02 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Ooh, this is a good find:
Trump nearly quintupled the monthly rent his presidential campaign pays for its headquarters at Trump Tower to $169,758 in July, when he was raising funds from donors, compared with March, when he was self-funding his campaign, according to a Huffington Post review of Federal Election Commission filings.
The obvious rationale would be that a general election campaign HQ is larger than a primary campaign, but the number of staffers has actually decreased. This is even as Trump is telling state GOP branches that they'll be paying for field operations in the general election.
posted by holgate at 8:05 PM on August 22, 2016 [40 favorites]


I just don't understand this. These people are baffling. They're trying so hard to find reasons to still sort-of support Trump. If he's done things in the past that have made you decide he's not fit for office, how do you forgive him for those past actions just because he gets on message for a little while? We're not talking about stuff he did in 1980 vs what he's doing today. We're talking about a few weeks ago. If I walk into a job interview without pants on, practicing a bit of self-abuse, you don't decide to hire me because I show up the next day with pants on.

Astonishing, isn't it?

But I think that one possible explanation is this: Most people don't vote for Trump or Clinton. Rather, they vote for the Republican or the Democratic ticket. And their decision is based not on logic or reason, but on a feeling of which camp you "belong" to. Which in turn depends on your upbringing, socialization, the people you hung out with during your formative years and a number of other factors.

If you look at it that way, it explains why Trump is still posed to get 45% of the vote in spite of his vile, racist incoherent rants. And it explains why it is impossible to convince many people that Hillary Clinton is not a crooked, corrupt, evil mastermind.

The deeper implication is that the debates, the breathless reporting, the background stories, the rallies etc. etc. all matter much less than most people think. All they can do is reinforce underlying convictions. Also, Trump was right on the mark that he could shoot someone on 5th avenue and his poll numbers wouldn't drop significantly. I think this is literally true. But at the same stage of the race, it would also have been true for any other Republican candidate in recent memory, because most people don't vote based on what candidates say or do, but on the group that they represent.

Or take the polls for African Americans: I suspect that most of them identify as African Americans first and Republicans second. The 1 or 2% that still support Trump and that you see on TV sometimes are those where that order is the other way around.

So if you find Trump's support baffling, remember that it's not about Trump vs. Clinton, but about Republicans vs. Democrats (or conservatives vs. progressives).
posted by sour cream at 8:10 PM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


And their decision is based not on logic or reason

and that is exactly why this is all so horrifying; the normalization of hate that we had thought slowly being left behind. Trump has fanned up the flames that should have been doused more thoroughly.
posted by porpoise at 8:19 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


sour cream: Trump was right on the mark that he could shoot someone on 5th avenue and his poll numbers wouldn't drop significantly. I think this is literally true.

I think it would depend on the race of the victim (and, to a lesser degree, class and attractiveness).
posted by tzikeh at 8:21 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


...you can tote a dialysis machine with you pretty easily, especially if you have the resources Trump does.

You mean having Christie carry it around, don't you?
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:25 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Well, he's gotta be good for something.
posted by mochapickle at 8:28 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


He picks stuff up from McDonalds. Egg McMuffins. Fish Delights...
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:32 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


And their decision is based not on logic or reason, but on a feeling of which camp you "belong" to.
While I absolutely agree with this, I find myself wondering how one ends up switching camps. Both of my parents grew up in staunchly economically conservative households packed to the brim with racism, anti-Semitism, and xenophobia. Both of my parents went to college as registered Republicans and emerged as registered Democrats. I'm sure in this case college was the transformative experience.

And yet I have certainly seen Republican and Democratic tribalism at work just as you describe it. The union guy who hates taxes, loves war and gun rights, despises the "welfare state," firmly believes that the illegals are taking his jobs, but always votes Democrat because it's "the party of the working man."

Personally, I tend to vote blue down the ticket. I even vote for Schumer. Because what's my other choice? The red candidates around here are just unacceptable to me on a number of levels, and I'm not averse to holding my nose and voting for the blue guy just because he's blue. I suppose if Keith Olbermann or Michael Moore were my presidential candidate I could see maybe voting for the other guy. It would depend on who it was.
posted by xyzzy at 8:38 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]




But I think that one possible explanation is this: Most people don't vote for Trump or Clinton. Rather, they vote for the Republican or the Democratic ticket. And their decision is based not on logic or reason, but on a feeling of which camp you "belong" to.

Congratulations, you have reinvented _Partisan Hearts and Minds_ by Don Green and Eric Schickler and some other people!

But even if people aren't calmly and rationally deciding their partisanship, there's still a large more-or-less "rational" core underneath it all. I mean, it isn't just some weird historical accident that black voters started breaking for Democrats under FDR and became near-monolithically Democratic after Johnson, or that white evangelicals are overwhelmingly Republican.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:46 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'll go on record: I think it's unseemly to speculate on a potential hidden health issue of a candidate.

Presumably it will come out in the next few months if it's true, verified by people who were actually in a position to do the investigative legwork needed to identify [Secret Disease] hidden by [Particular Nefarious Candidate].

In the meantime, is it really helping the already-tattered political discourse in this country if the sane majority jumps right into the cesspool in which a mercifully fewer than 50% of people are wallowing?
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:48 PM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


Well it looks like the press have been muckracking like hell because now it looks like they've got Melania dead to rights lying under oath.

That rawstory article is bad. It says that because Melania Trump may have lied under oath about having a degree she "is guilty" of perjury. Let's grant for a moment that she lied. That's not perjury. The thing you lie about has to be material for you to be guilty of perjury.

The Melania stuff has me torn. On the one hand, people are right that whether or not Melania lied about having a degree is kind of irrelevant to how good or a bad of a president Donald Trump would be. But on the other hand I have unshakeable certainty that Obama or any other Democrat would have been run through the Republican grinder if his wife was shown to have lied about things like this. We all know they would have.

This is politics and politics ain't beanbag. If they find an issue which can help stop Trump from becoming President which does not involve his minor children I think they should use it. Were Trump to become President and destroy everything I don't think "but at least we ran a lily white and pure campaign!" would be much consolation.
posted by Justinian at 8:49 PM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


(I suppose one objection to that would be that whether we on Metafilter should talk about stuff is a different issue from whether it's a legitimate thing for the Clinton camp, surrogates, or allied superPACs to go after. That is a decent objection.)
posted by Justinian at 8:50 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


FYI: Hillary will be on Jimmy Kimmel (ABC) after this commercial break!
posted by acidic at 8:50 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


> If they find an issue which can help stop Trump from becoming President which does not involve his minor children I think they should use it.

Sure, but this ain't it. Melania? Who cares? Trump called for the assassination of his opponent and barely bothered to wink and nudge about it, and that didn't move the needle one way or the other. (Depressing doesn't even begin to cover it.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:54 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


That rawstory article is bad.

I think it's going to move a total of zero votes.

This is politics and politics ain't beanbag. If they find an issue which can help stop Trump from becoming President which does not involve his minor children I think they should use it. Were Trump to become President and destroy everything I don't think "but at least we ran a lily white and pure campaign!" would be much consolation.

Yeah, at this point Stopping Trump is basically a patriotic duty.

Unfortunately, the fact that Donald Trump's third wife may have falsely represented on her visa application the extent to which she was educated by an institution in

you have already fallen asleep
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:57 PM on August 22, 2016 [15 favorites]


It's ok I don't actually listen to what other people say anyway

/trump voter
posted by Justinian at 9:01 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


ROU_Xenophobe: "Congratulations, you have reinvented _Partisan Hearts and Minds_ by Don Green and Eric Schickler and some other people"

Among these other people are Achen and Bartels who describe in their book Democracy for Realists the idea that voters generally choose their politicians based on the issues (rather than social identities and partisan loyalties) as "the folk-theory of democracy".

Disclaimer: I haven't read their book yet but have been meaning to get around to it eventually.
posted by mhum at 9:02 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I haven't read that yet either and really should. But in this case the other person I couldn't remember was Brad Palmquist.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:04 PM on August 22, 2016


I think maintaining some degree of the high road is why some Republicans are willing to support Hillary / dump Trump. If Clinton went with the Melania stuff it undermines that to some degree. (There is no indication her campaign is going to or will do this, just saying "if").

So while I agree stopping Trump is important, I'm not sure attacking his wife would help that. It might actually hurt it, by generating some sympathy for her/him among Republicans.
posted by thefoxgod at 9:06 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


The Melania degree stuff is stupid. So are the photos. Her immigration status is not, where Trump has made deportation of "illegals" his signature issue. If she was here as an "illegal", that's a pretty damn valid line of attack. Maybe not the MOST effective given the wealth of angles to come at Trump, but it's perfectly valid.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:08 PM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


I agree with that; the only one of the issues that might be worth a damn is the citizenship one. Going nasty with ineffective attacks would be even dumber than refraining from effective ones.
posted by Justinian at 9:09 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Maybe valid, but almost certainly ineffective.

Trump voters don't care about rigid adherence to specific policy proposals. They don't want non-white immigrants in the country, especially "Mexicans". They don't give a damn about Eastern European models coming into the country illegally. At least, thats certainly my impression.
posted by thefoxgod at 9:10 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Her immigration status is not, where Trump has made deportation of "illegals" his signature issue. If she was here as an "illegal", that's a pretty damn valid line of attack.

Immigration from Europe isn't the issue. Only immigration from places where humans are brown.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:16 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


I have learned from Internet Diagnosticians:

Clinton: Parkinson's, seizures, brain damage, personality disorders, use of pillows
Trump: dementia, personality disorders, micropenis, and now kidney disease

Meanwhile Gary Johnson could literally run for office.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 9:21 PM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


But on the other hand I have unshakeable certainty that Obama or any other Democrat would have been run through the Republican grinder if his wife was shown to have lied about things like this. We all know they would have.

Right, and we would be talking about how awful they are for it. This is attacking the candidate by smearing his wife. It's a nasty road to go down, and I always feel weird when liberals and Democrats say they might be OK with really slimy tactics just this once because look at the stakes here. If we can only win the election by playing dirty tricks then we're way worse off than anyone (pollsters, pundits) thinks. We can do better than this, and I'm not going to normalize this kind of nastiness just because it's someone on the other side.
posted by teponaztli at 9:22 PM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


The LA Review of Books on Arlie Russell Hochschild’s "Strangers in Their Own Land: Anger and Mourning on the American Right": What’s the Matter with Cancer Alley? Arlie Russell Hochschild’s Anatomy of Trumpism.
Hochschild does not see [her subjects] as dupes of conservative media and Republican elites. Nor, by comparison to some other recent analysts, does she think their attitudes mostly reflect plausible, if not always evident, economic interests. Hochschild is concerned rather with the force of emotion, which she contends runs deeper than formal political ideology or rational self-interest... [T]he people Hochschild comes to know are reluctant to pity themselves, but they still more stubbornly refuse sympathy to the less fortunate. Hence their one, very strongly expressed, political desire. They do not want government to restrain corporate power, nor expect that it will be able to do so... They seethe with resentment, however, at the thought that liberal politicians extend advantages to people less deserving than themselves, and they yearn to see those advantages stripped away.

This, Hochschild says, is the “deep story” shared by the people she meets. In the quest for the wealth and security promised by the American dream, they believe that some people have been permitted to cut the line in front of them. They take pride in the work that allowed them to rise as far as they have. But now, as they perceive their world slipping away, they resent the unfair assistance that they think liberal government gives to the less deserving — to people who, as one man complains in a particularly transparent moment, “lazed around days and partied at night.” They view those undeserving people not as economic competitors but rather as threats to a fragile sense of “cultural honor.” What matters most to the conservatives she meets, Hochschild suggests, is the embattled feeling of pride they take from the conviction that they themselves do not belong among the weak and needy. Indeed, Hochschild reports that nearly all of her subjects have benefitted in direct ways from “a major government service.” Many of them, she adds, are “ashamed and asked me to dissociate their identity from such an act.”
posted by jokeefe at 9:30 PM on August 22, 2016 [64 favorites]


I think maintaining some degree of the high road is why some Republicans are willing to support Hillary / dump Trump. If Clinton went with the Melania stuff it undermines that to some degree. (There is no indication her campaign is going to or will do this, just saying "if").

People who are ordinarily Republican voters but who are also really not okay with Trumpism, for whatever reason, have three options:
1) Hold nose, vote Trump because Supreme Court / Woman Leader Bad / Dems Bad / Liberals Bad etc.

2) Take a Principled Stance (vote third-party for President or Intentionally Avoid the Polls)

3) Vote for Hillary to make a statement about the acceptable bounds of discourse in 2016.
Some people can be converted from 2) or even 1) to 3). Great. Let's do that whenever possible.

Other people are just not ever going to be able to pull the lever for (D) or (woman), whatever. The best that can be done, from both a leftist and from a partisan Democratic perspective (and, realistically, from a fact-based perspective), is to open up psychological space for them to feel that they are honoring their principles by refusing to vote for either of the major candidates.

I think the Clinton campaign should take this kind of a two-pronged approach to soft voters. Ultimate goal: run up the popular vote ("mandate") for President, retake the Senate, hopefully by more than a bare majority, and gain as much as possible in the House.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:32 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


Some people can be converted from 2) or even 1) to 3). Great. Let's do that whenever possible.

I hate to say it, but them intentionally avoiding the polls altogether is even better than them showing up to vote for Clinton but also a bunch of downticket GOP candidates.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:54 PM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


And remember, two non-votes is worth just as much as one flipped vote.

Counseling justified despair among honorable Republicans is a perfectly legitimate electoral strategy.
posted by chortly at 10:01 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


What matters most to the conservatives she meets, Hochschild suggests, is the embattled feeling of pride they take from the conviction that they themselves do not belong among the weak and needy.
Herbert Hoover famously saved millions of Russians from starving to death during the famine of the early 1920's and then turned around and utterly failed to fix the problems in the US after the stock market crash. I have read various hypotheses on how it was possible that Hoover could recognize the need of Russians but failed to see the needs of his own people. One common idea seems to be that Hoover was so convinced of American exceptionalism that it was impossible for him to believe that a true blue, red-blooded American could possibly require or accept government assistance. He did make public comments that being on the dole weakens public morale. I see this attitude in so. many. people. Anecdotally, I've known people who would legitimately qualify for public assistance but refuse to apply for services because they truly believe that it would be a scam and a show of weakness for them to accept help.
posted by xyzzy at 10:03 PM on August 22, 2016 [35 favorites]


I hate to say it, but them intentionally avoiding the polls altogether is even better than them showing up to vote for Clinton but also a bunch of downticket GOP candidates.

Don't even worry about feeling bad.

I stand by what I said a few threads back: conservatives need to accept the fact that liberals get to benefit from their having turned the Republican Party into this disgusting swamp, hashtag sorrynotsorry.

If you didn't want 16 years of Democratic control of the White House, maybe you should have been less ok with racists.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:10 PM on August 22, 2016 [32 favorites]


Hillary Clinton Proves She’s in Good Health on Jimmy Kimmel tonight.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:10 PM on August 22, 2016 [35 favorites]


While I absolutely agree with this, I find myself wondering how one ends up switching camps.

Well I grew up in a Republican household. I remember telling someone in like Kindergarten that I wanted Reagan to win because that was what my parents had said. My mom actually came from a Democratic family of working class Irish immigrants but she adopted my dad's Republicanism once she was married (and abruptly dropped it once he died, which is pretty weird to me.)

But I started identifying as Democrat when I was in middle school. That would have been during the first Clinton election. I think that was 8th grade for me? And we were doing American History so we were required to follow the election closely, and write about the issues, etc. And that was when I decided I was on the side of Clinton, not Bush.

Why? Cause that seemed like the right side to me. It would have been about the dawn of my feminism as well, and that was definitely part of it. Maybe it was that I had feminist, liberal teachers, though they never would have identified themselves out loud as such. I don't remember them indoctrinating us, but I had some awesome women history teachers from 7-10th grades. But yeah, by the time of high school, I was firmly Democrat and liberal and fighting my Republican father in all political discussions.
posted by threeturtles at 10:12 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


....and now kidney disease.

It would have never occurred to me if they didn't have a long history of projecting their faults onto Clinton and weren't suddenly making a big assed deal out of her having gotten a concussion once, and sleeping at night (you know, like humans do) and so on. Even then, I would have dismissed the fly home every night thing as being kind of necrotic, but whatever. But I have a friend who is on a transplant list and is no longer allowed to get more than 3 hours away from the hospital where the surgery will happen if they find a match and I was primed for a shower moment.

No matter what Trump's issues might be, sign those organ donor cards folks!
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 10:15 PM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


Hillary Clinton Proves She’s in Good Health on Jimmy Kimmel tonight.

I don't think I'll be satisfied until we see a photo of shirtless Hillary on a horse, Hillary wrestling a bear, Hillary emerging from an icy river ...
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:23 PM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


Even then, I would have dismissed the fly home every night thing as being kind of necrotic

He's not smart enough to be a lich, but a ghoul of some sort I could see
posted by rifflesby at 10:24 PM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]


> Hillary Clinton Proves She’s in Good Health on Jimmy Kimmel tonight.

I have to say I find that pretty endearing.

I'd love to see Trump be able to have an easy joking conversation about this, with Kimmel questioning his health and asking him to prove it. I kind of hope he shows up and Kimmel asks him to do the pickle thing again. Imagine a jar of pickles as the gaffe that sinks Trump.
posted by mrzarquon at 10:29 PM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


You know Brietbart will be shouting tomorrow about how the pickle jar was already loosened or something.
posted by zachlipton at 10:31 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I don't think I'll be satisfied until we see a photo of shirtless Hillary on a horse, Hillary wrestling a bear, Hillary emerging from an icy river ...

I see we have similar dreams.
posted by bongo_x at 10:41 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Melania Trump stands on the podium smiling and cheering on the racist pile of shit she married. A shit pile who has yuge plans to wreck this country with attacks on immigrants and women like Hillary Clinton. A shit pile who is taking advice from extreme misogynists like Roger Ailes. A shit pile who frequently reduces women to a 1-10 scale of their sexual attractiveness. She isnt just some wallflower or innocent bystander. She's an active participant in this hateful campaign of her husbands. She's out there telling us how great he is, vouching for his character with plagiarized speeches and bullshit stories about her past.

If she wants to be exempted from these attacks, then she needs to come out strongly against the attacks commit from the GOP. When her friends are claiming that Hillary cuckolded Bill and that Chelsea is actually another man's kid. Her friends have spent the last 8 years complaining about Michelle Obama's arm thickness. She cheers these critics like her husband on; rooting for them to rule us.

Many women have had their lives destroyed over a couple of intended to be private nude photos that a jilted ex-lover put on the Internet as an act of revenge porn. The destruction of their careers as teachers, even winners of her husband's beauty pageant, came from those conservatives who now demand we elect Trump to make America great again.

So here we have Melania Trump. Wife of moralizing gasbag #1, endorsed by Jerry Falwell Jr and the conservative evangelical leaders. Her history cannot be ignored. It demonstrates the hypocracy of their whole movement. They are willing to fire a perfectly good teacher who is the victim of revenge porn, driver her out of town. They'll call a woman a slut because of her clothes and suggest it was her fault she was rapped because of it.
She's with them. The gold digging, soft core porno actor who also appears to be an illegal immigrant and possibly a prostitute. And not allegedly because that's how she was dressed, but because she was working for people who pimped out girls and there are photos of her acting days.
posted by humanfont at 10:47 PM on August 22, 2016 [20 favorites]


Yeah, but Trump himself is such a banquet of vulnerabilities that the Clinton campaign can afford to high-road the Melania stuff.
posted by um at 10:51 PM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


shirtless Hillary on a horse, Hillary wrestling a bear, Hillary emerging from an icy river ...
I see we have similar dreams.


No dreams of her crushing the life out of cancer-ridden crazed elephant?
posted by wildblueyonder at 11:01 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]


If she was here as an "illegal", that's a pretty damn valid line of attack.

There are at best estimate 30,000 Irish citizens of iffy immigration status in NYC and environs. If you were to force my hand, I'd guess that yeah, Melania worked on a tourist visa before she got something with work authorisation, perhaps for cash in hand, perhaps in exchange for a place to stay. As I've said before, that's more of a reflection of how shitty and exploitative the modelling industry is, not her personal conduct. In the broader scheme of things it has no electoral value.

(And in truth, Americans don't give much of a fuck if their meals are cooked and meat slaughtered and produce picked by illegal immigrants as long as that keeps prices down and they have tacit permission to whine about 'marque dos para Español.')

The Clinton campaign isn't going to touch it with a ten-foot pole. Or Slovenian.
posted by holgate at 11:14 PM on August 22, 2016 [11 favorites]


(And in truth, Americans don't give much of a fuck if their meals are cooked and meat slaughtered and produce picked by illegal immigrants as long as that keeps prices down and they have tacit permission to whine about 'marque dos para Español.')

The backbone of the Trump campaign would seem to belie this, or at least suggest that a lot of people would like to do more about immigrants than just grumble about Spanish.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:45 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


The Clinton campaign doesn't need to touch Melania's immigration issue - if ICE gets enough evidence that her documentation didn't match her activities, she could lose citizen status and be deported. There is no statute of limitations for immigration crimes.

Melania seems to be in about the same position as the guy in the linked story - citizen paperwork may have dodged over a few details; married to a US citizen; has a child in the US. She, however, doesn't have the excuse of having been 13 when the initial violation occurred.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:05 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yes, Melania is active in Trump's campaign. But Bill is active in Clinton's campaign, and lot of people here thought we shouldn't hold his actions against her.
posted by ryanrs at 12:18 AM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


But Bill is active in Clinton's campaign, and lot of people here thought we shouldn't hold his actions against her.

I agree, but at the same time Hillary hasn't made 'the sanctity of marriage' the largest issue in her campaign.
posted by PenDevil at 12:20 AM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


I think it undermines Trump more if Clinton, Obama and the left comes to Melania's defense.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:25 AM on August 23, 2016 [20 favorites]


Agreed again, if anything they should be using it to highlight the exploitation of workers (including models) by employers via immigration law abuse.
posted by PenDevil at 12:32 AM on August 23, 2016 [16 favorites]


Jeff Horwitz at The Associated Press: "Racism and talk of religious war: Trump staff's online posts"
posted by Going To Maine at 1:00 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Melania's legal team? Harder Mirell & Abrams LLP (who represented Hulk Hogan in the lawsuit funded by Silicon Valley billionaire Peter Thiel that eventually bankrupted Gawker Media).

Politco also "on notice".

Grauniad: Melania Trump pursues Daily Mail over '100% false' rumors about her past
posted by Mister Bijou at 1:01 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I think it undermines Trump more if Clinton, Obama and the left comes to Melania's defense.

The Dems don't need to do anything, if only because Melania and her and Donald's lawyers will drag themselves down all on their own. That said, it's pretty hilarious horrible to hear talk about the "high road", given what was done to Sanders' wife in order to attack him. Either take the gloves off or don't, but if the stakes are so high, they shouldn't suddenly pretend at being above the fray.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:40 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


If she was here as an "illegal", that's a pretty damn valid line of attack. Maybe not the MOST effective given the wealth of angles to come at Trump, but it's perfectly valid.

Totally ineffective and probably counterproductive.

What's the argument supposed to be here?
"Donald Trump wants illegal aliens deported. His wife is (probably, possibly) an illiegal alien. Therefore, by his own logic, his wife should be deported." Is that it?

What do you expect from such a line of attack?
Do you expect him to go "Why thank you for pointing that out - I now realize that my position was too extrmeme and will correct it accordingly."
Or do you expect his supporters to suddenly see how hypocritical and inconsistent his position is? Because that is nothing new either.

Everyone knows that "Kick out the illegal aliens" is not supposed to be a coherent policy position. It applies to people from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, all of Africa and some Mexicans. It does not apply to models from Eastern Europe.
In fact, it's not even a position that is meant to ever be put to practice. It's merely a device to get people to vote for Trump and he's probably just as serious about this issue as he is about providing flood relief to LA. So in the unlikely event that he becomes president, he'll probably put in about the same effort: a few minutes in which he personally kicks out a few brown people so that he can demonstrate how serious he is about the issue, but nothing more (except lots of talk).

So the only thing that you will accomplish by attacking Melania Trump is to create the impression that you're picking on a defenseless white woman. If you really want to go for that, why not juxtapose that with a picture of the Obama or the Kahn family for added punch?
posted by sour cream at 1:56 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


I think it undermines Trump more if Clinton, Obama and the left comes to Melania's defense.

I'm inclined to agree with this. If our stance is that the Immigration system is hopelessly fucked and racist, and people who should be able to come here and work are barred from doing so for stupid reasons, then supporting Melania coming to the US, working around her Visa situation, etc... could easily be viewed as an example of what people have to do because we're not fixing our immigration system. She's an example of why the system should be changed.
posted by Deoridhe at 2:33 AM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


Melania’s Diary
By Paul Rudnick
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:42 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Ron Swanson of the Pawnee Indiana Parks and Recreation department has in fact taken a strong line on the subject of illegal immigration. Informed that a woman whose legal status in the US depended on her marriage was vulnerable to deportation even years later and even if divorced, he replied "Damn The Man!" (Just watched this episode. It seemed timely.)

Let us all try to be as compassionate and sensitive and open minded as Ron Swanson.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:43 AM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


Kinda sorta caught up with this thread, been too busy to keep track of the last one. Yard signage - I have seen very little, one person a few streets over had a few Hillary signs but they kept being tagged with shit and I think they gave up.

I did see one really weird one. I trapped a groundhog that was digging tunnels under a building in my yard and wreaking all sorts of havoc and took it out near the lake to release it and in one yard in the "boonies" with rusting cars all over the property there was a hand-painted sign that said "Trump 16" and right next to it a much larger hand painted sign that said in all capital letters and bright red paint, "FREE COSBY THE LAST GREAT BLACK ENTERTAINER" and some smaller scribbles about the media. There was a confederate flag in the yard along with a flag I didn't recognize and some flamingos with hats on, could not tell if they were Trump hats or just hats. They were red so they could have been Arkansas Razorback hats, who knows.

I kept setting the trap because I wasn't sure if I had one or more than one groundhog and I caught a big raccoon and since they have damaged my attic before, I decided to take him on a trip too. This time the signs were gone and were replaced with a single sign that said "NO" and nothing else. No more flamingos in the yard, hats or otherwise. Probably just related to vandalism but I'd love to know the story behind that.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 3:49 AM on August 23, 2016 [39 favorites]


No one is attacking Melania Trump over her immigration status. She's reportedly planning to sue the Daily Mail for reporting that the modeling agency she worked for pimped out their models. As I said up thread no one in their right mind launches a suit like that in election season. Nothing good will come out of a "I was not a prostitute" lawsuit. That should be obvious but apparently Ms. Trump doesn't see it that way.
posted by rdr at 4:55 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


If the white wife of a rich white man has no agency and seems totally defenseless, I hate to break it to you about the candidate running against Trump.

Upon reflection, that might be the deal-breaking issue with said candidate for the misogynist party voters.

Jokes aside, I agree that the Clinton campaign should not dig into or bring up Melania's history, but I also don't think they have to.

Die-hard fans of Trump who self-identify as white supremists won't be convinced by evidence of Trump's "immigration policy" really being a "brown people policy" consisting of racism and fantasy and no actual substance (or, anything really). That much hypocrisy would get enough media play that slightly Republicans-leaning voters will find it harder to vote for the guy who's main qualification is taking joy in firing people on The Apprentice.
posted by fragmede at 4:56 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Everyone knows that "Kick out the illegal aliens" is not supposed to be a coherent policy position. It applies to people from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, all of Africa and some Mexicans.

It's the political equivalent of that guy in high school saying "who wants a ride in my new car" and quickly adding "no fatties!"
posted by phunniemee at 5:00 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Melania's legal team? Harder Mirell & Abrams LLP (who represented Hulk Hogan in the lawsuit funded by Silicon Valley billionaire Peter Thiel that eventually bankrupted Gawker Media).

Politco also "on notice".


One can imagine the mental contortions Jeff Zucker (CNN), Les Moonves (CBS), or Fred Ryan (WaPo, formerly Politico, formerly Chief of Staff for Reagan holy sh*t I didn't know that), are going through to weigh the balance of "negative" Trump pieces.
posted by petebest at 5:03 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


The only true Vice President for Egg McMuffin is Hash Brown Potatoes.

I don't know. Apple Pie can deliver that crucial late night snack demographic that McMuffin ignored completely until very recently.
posted by milarepa at 5:04 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


On May 18, the day the fundraising deal was announced, Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach was paid $29,715; Trump National Golf Club in Jupiter, Florida, was paid $35,845; and Trump Restaurants LLC was paid $125,080, according to FEC records. Such large payments were much rarer when Trump was self-funding.

"Trump Rips Off Donors; G-damn You Guys Are Stupid, Steve" seems like a pretty good cudgel if one were selecting from such an assortment.

Racists gonna racist but money is the honey. Or something like that.
posted by petebest at 5:08 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Yes, anybody in the media needs to watch out when Harder Mirell & Abrams get involved, but the Gawker case had a Florida venue, a small jury and a few questionable decisions by the judge that have made a reversal on appeal rather likely. Still, a serious warchest for defending lawsuits is needed, because even if he never gets anywhere near being able to change the libel laws, Dishonest Donald is a litigation addict. Or you could be like me, totally indigent, on a site where "all posts are copyright their original authors" and I can declare conclusively that "Trump Rips Off EVERYBODY Who Has The Bad Judgement to Work With Him".
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:20 AM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


Such delicate sensibilities. A man who calls undocumented immigrants "rapists" as the opening gesture of his campaign may be married to someone who was here as an undocumented yet working immigrant. She gives a flowery plagiarized speech at the RNC. Her supporters hold every single thing Bill Clinton ever did against his wife as HER failure to "stand up" to him. Their platform is not only anti-immigrant but deeply misogynist. These are the fuckers who cheered when Rush Limbaugh called Sandra Fluke a "slut" for using birth control. They adamantly oppose any woman having access to safe and legal abortion even if she's been raped or her life is threatened by pregnancy. Their candidate takes pride in judging women on their appearance in crude and constant ways.

Damn right it matters if Melania was an "illegal." I don't expect Hillary herself to touch it, but it's fair game as far as I'm concerned for anyone else. The point is not to attack Melania. It is to attack her husband's forked tongue.
posted by spitbull at 5:22 AM on August 23, 2016 [18 favorites]




Yes, anybody in the media needs to watch out when Harder Mirell & Abrams get involved, but the Gawker case had a Florida venue, a small jury and a few questionable decisions by the judge that have made a reversal on appeal rather likely.

Apparently Florida also has a law that you have to pay the whole judgement before you can appeal, which seems crazy to me.
posted by drezdn at 5:25 AM on August 23, 2016


NEW NBC/Survey Monkey national tracking poll ==>
Clinton: 50%
Trump: 42%

New Roanoke College poll of Virginia:
Clinton 55
Trump 36

In the four-way:
Clinton 48
Trump 32
posted by guiseroom at 5:25 AM on August 23, 2016 [12 favorites]


Says who?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:29 AM on August 23, 2016 [34 favorites]


Bush Institute founding director endorses Clinton

James Glassman, who is also the founding director of the George W. Bush Institute at the former president’s library in Dallas, told MSNBC Monday evening that Clinton is “by far the superior candidate.”

No suprise there I guess, just fun to look at the geologic fissures in the GOP.
posted by petebest at 5:34 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Millennials 'are forming their first impressions of what it means to be Republican, and what it means for many of them is: Donald Trump. For decades to come, the stench of the 2016 campaign will affect those voters and mold their political leanings. Every poll shows young Americans fleeing from Trump and his party. If history is any guide, most of them are never coming back.' Boston Globe.
posted by kimdog at 5:35 AM on August 23, 2016 [40 favorites]


@aseitzwald: Hillary Clinton will use a speech in Reno Thursday to go after Trump and his ties to the "alt-right," per aide.

grumpycatgood.gif

Prior to Bannon coming on staff, Trump had a shred of plausible deniability--he didn't know the person he retweeted from was a Grand Wizard! He can't help it if neo-nazi's love him! He didn't ask for their support! But now the alt-right call is coming from inside the building and this needs to be hammered on over and over and over until November. Undecideds/low-info voters/moderate R's need to know in no uncertain terms who they would be casting their lot with with a vote for Trump.

This may be the first campaign by, for and of the internet. The alt-right is a creation of the internet, and I think we may actually be seeing the irl corollary to "but people support me in email!"
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:44 AM on August 23, 2016 [16 favorites]


Every time Trump or Jason Miller or one of those other bozos tweets about "Crooked H," it just makes me daydream of visiting some nice, peaceful Dude Ranch / spa out West somewhere with a winding river and friendly horsies.
posted by sallybrown at 5:46 AM on August 23, 2016 [22 favorites]


The alt-right thing is tough because it's somewhat dependent on Internet literacy / knowledge of online culture. There's a lot of people who tune out or get confused when you try to explain "there's this thing that goes on on the Internet" - I tried to explain 4 chan to my parents once and it was just like "WHAAAAAAA--that's not real, that's just an Internet thing" with the same tone people use to talk about aliens.
posted by sallybrown at 5:49 AM on August 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


I think it's better to pitch it as "there's these people out there, and they talk to each other on the internet..."

Even the Olds use Facebook (actually apparently any more it's only the Olds who use Facebook?), they understand having a Crazy Racist Relative who you don't really talk to much irl but who is all over your FB spouting a bunch of nonsense all the time. The alt-right is just all the crazy racist relatives in the entire world who have friended one another and do nothing all day but sit online and post offensive crap to one another and like the offensive crap that all the rest of them post. And oh hey one of them decided to run for president and a bunch of the others are on his staff and they're polling at 40% nationally :-/
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:01 AM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


The alt-right is just all the crazy racist relatives in the entire world who have friended one another and do nothing all day but sit online and post offensive crap to one another and like the offensive crap that all the rest of them post.

Imagine Thanksgiving, but with everyone's racist uncles together in one place. And no pie.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:08 AM on August 23, 2016 [23 favorites]


Despite speaking at the RNC, Peter Thiel has no intention of donating money to or fundraise for Donald Trump:

The billionaire PayPal co-founder, arguably Trump’s most prominent supporter in Silicon Valley, has no plans to fundraise or donate to Trump’s presidential campaign, a spokesperson told the Wall Street Journal. Thiel had previously donated $2 million to a super PAC that funded an early 2016 Republican contender, former Hewlett-Packard chief executive officer Carly Fiorina, but is not known to have given similarly to Trump.
posted by PenDevil at 6:11 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Even the Olds use Facebook (actually apparently any more it's only the Olds who use Facebook?), they understand having a Crazy Racist Relative who you don't really talk to much irl but who is all over your FB spouting a bunch of nonsense all the time.

This is exactly what I used as an example when my parents asked what exactly alt-right is referring to. In their case it's not a relative but a couple of 'friends' and posts from people they've had to ignore. "Mom, you know those posts that freaked you out after France? Alt-right" " Dad you know the crap that X Smith always posts and you have wondered where he's getting it all from? Alt-right".

Dad said "So Fox News type stuff". I said "Think Fox News +++, multiplied by eleventy".
posted by Jalliah at 6:13 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


Imagine Thanksgiving, but with everyone's racist uncle together in one place. And no pie

So, just plain ritual sacrifice, then.
posted by Superplin at 6:14 AM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


C'est la D.C.: Imagine Thanksgiving, but with everyone's racist uncles together in one place. And no pie.

Boy, that juuust might be enough to make some people rethink their opposition to drone strikes.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:14 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


For older folks, I would try some variation of "They're the John Birch Society, but on the internet."
posted by EarBucket at 6:16 AM on August 23, 2016 [23 favorites]


You're saying that if we were able to find a representative poll of all police employees in the us you think the majority of that mass of people would be voting for trump?

The overwhelming response of the police in America, including the 'good' ones, is to defend their colleagues when they openly and obviously murder people. Even when it enrages entire communities and makes their own job much more dangerous.

Nothing could be more Trump.
posted by srboisvert at 6:16 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Hillary Clinton Proves She’s in Good Health on Jimmy Kimmel tonight.

No Pillows!
posted by srboisvert at 6:20 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


The NY Times now has the 15000 Clinton email story as their top headline. Seriously, can this witchhunt please stop? This is getting ridiculous.
posted by peacheater at 6:23 AM on August 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


Meanwhile on NPR this morning, re Louisiana: "Some have criticized the President for not visiting the area sooner." Yes, some have. And some others--namely the Governor of the state--asked him to stay away until now. But they didn't mention that part.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:27 AM on August 23, 2016 [46 favorites]


So in the previous mega election thread 2016, sallybrown linked to the Vogue profile of Huma Abedin, vice chairwoman for Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign for president and her PA.

And, well, yes ok, it's Vogue, so....but still:
She barely has a few moments daily to spend with her son. “It wasn’t so clear in my mind, after my son was born, that I would work with this kind of intensity,” she confesses. “Many working moms feel this way—there is a lot of guilt. . . . I don’t think I could do it if I didn’t have the support system I have, if Anthony wasn’t willing to be, essentially, a full-time dad. I have in-laws who are really supportive. And I’m lucky enough to have a nanny, which I realize is completely a luxury—a lot of people aren’t able to do that. That allows me to travel and do my job.

“But I do feel like I’m constantly juggling,” she goes on, staring into the half a cup of coffee on her desk. “There are days that go by, and I think, I can’t recall the last time I cooked my son a meal. I feel really guilty about that. I’m his mother, and I should be making sure he’s eating well!” She looks a little mournful. “When I do have a day with him, I like to go on a walk—even if I have to be on a conference call,” she says. “I think, to him, it’s normal.” She adds, more quietly, “I’m hoping that in ten years he won’t remember that Mom is at work so much.”
Ugh. Do we ever get to hear male politicos say anything like that? I'm guessing the closest we get is when they're caught with their pants down one way or another, and then forced to resign in disgrace claim they want to spend more time with their family.

Also, why do they need a nanny if unemployable Anthony is "essentially" a full-time dad??

Just in case it's not clear: definitely not harshing on Huma here
posted by moody cow at 6:34 AM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


I just read about 1968 in Nixonland and it put me in a cold sweat.

Tricky Dick would have owned 2016.
posted by whuppy at 6:34 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Meanwhile on NPR this morning

Cut the cord. Podcasts. Abstain til December. They're gone. Let them go.
posted by petebest at 6:38 AM on August 23, 2016 [41 favorites]


Every time I hear about "15,000 emails" or "30,000 emails" I just imagine it looking like the typical situations where I've dealt with that quantity of email, either in my own mailbox or helping a relative or client.

In other words, 29,800 of them are spam...

Shocking news: Hillary Clinton gets thousands of emails PER DAY from mysterious Canadian pharmacies and Nigerian diplomats. WHAT IS SHE HIDING?
posted by mmoncur at 6:39 AM on August 23, 2016 [35 favorites]


I can't really bring myself to be mad at a 12-year-old kid, however much I may be picturing him as a real-life Draco Malfoy.

I think he may actually be! If he's the same one I am thinking of. There was a kid who looked like he was 12 at the RNC hanging out on our side of the hall (which I thiiiink is where CO was). He was wearing a three piece suit, and was chatting with the green-hats while looking at everyone with that junior sneering look you usually only see on film Malfoy. A couple of the delegates were joking bitterly about the Hitler Jugend.
posted by corb at 6:50 AM on August 23, 2016 [61 favorites]


petebest: "Meanwhile on NPR this morning

Cut the cord. Podcasts. Abstain til December. They're gone. Let them go.
"

I've switched to the listener supported music station for my commute, NPR just gets me too upset.
posted by octothorpe at 6:55 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Melania’s Diary
By Paul Rudnick


"“They keep trying to make their father notice them. But he still calls them Thing One and Thing Two.”"

Thanks, I almost got coffee all over my keyboard.
posted by numaner at 6:57 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


You know Brietbart will be shouting tomorrow about how the pickle jar was already loosened or something.

Headline on drudgereport right now: PICKLE STRONG.

Also a story on breitbart, where the first comment (where the real magic happens on right wing sites) is, indeed, the claim that the pickle jar lid was already loosened.
posted by dis_integration at 7:01 AM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


I can't really bring myself to be mad at a 12-year-old kid, however much I may be picturing him as a real-life Draco Malfoy.

Honestly, you have to wonder if someone who is a serious Republican at 12 won't outgrow it pretty hard later on - if he's responsible enough to manage adult volunteers (even with parental support) and smart enough to engage with adults at the convention, he's probably going to be a pretty intelligent and focused young adult, and that makes me think he might well see through Republican claims once he's got some life experience. A lot of Republican ideas appeal to kids, I think, because they sound moral if you don't know how complicated real life actually is.
posted by Frowner at 7:02 AM on August 23, 2016 [21 favorites]


Honestly, you have to wonder if someone who is a serious Republican at 12 won't outgrow it pretty hard later on

I was a hardcore Republican from about 16-19 or so, probably in rebellion, mostly. (I have family who served in Bill Clinton's administration.) I've voted Democrat since my first presidential election in 2000.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:05 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I've switched to the listener supported music station for my commute, NPR just gets me too upset.

I hate the music they play, especially during drive times :(

I do listen to a lot of podcasts, but a lot of them are pretty salty with the language and my kid is usually in the car with me.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:06 AM on August 23, 2016


Honestly, you have to wonder if someone who is a serious Republican at 12 won't outgrow it pretty hard later on...

Viral teen YouTube star renounces conservatism
posted by PenDevil at 7:06 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also, why do they need a nanny if unemployable Anthony is "essentially" a full-time dad?

I'm sure Carlos Danger finds ways to occupy his time. I don't know why people find Wiener amusing. He's a creep.
posted by spitbull at 7:06 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


he's probably going to be a pretty intelligent and focused young adult

He's going to be the next Ted Cruz.

Well at least he won't be the Zodiac Killer.
posted by spitbull at 7:08 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


pickle jar was already loosened

I am a male with about a foot and a hundred pounds on Clinton, and sometimes I get a jar with the lid jammed on there good and I have to run it under hot water or grab a piece of rubber to get it open. Of course the TV pickle jar was already loosened.

Also, why do they need a nanny if unemployable Anthony is "essentially" a full-time dad?

That's how the wealthy roll.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:12 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


If I was wealthy, it's absolutely how I'd roll.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:15 AM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


He's going to be the next Ted Cruz.

I dunno, there's a certain kind of young conservative for whom I tend to have a soft spot - the ones who are drawn to conservatism because they are essentially well-behaved fusspots who don't fit in very well with teen culture. They're not conservative so much as well-behaved, and once they realize that you don't have to hate immigrants or gays in order to lead a morally upstanding, well-organized life they tend to let go of a lot of it. I myself am a well-behaved fusspot, basically, and I well-remember disapproving intensely of, like, drugs and sex and teenage pregnancy and the demon alcohol and general insolence to authority figures. In a different time and a different family, I could easily have had a Republican phase.
posted by Frowner at 7:16 AM on August 23, 2016 [55 favorites]


Mayor Duke the dog elected for third term in Minnesota town: According to Duke's owner David Rick, the pup was originally elected by accident via write-in votes. Only 12 votes were reportedly cast in that 2014 election.

We have no idea what Duke's policy initiatives are, or if Cormorant has term limits, but we wish the Mayor and his town well

posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:17 AM on August 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


i just had to declare TAB BANKRUPTCY in the browser window with all of the Trump articles in it

understanding exactly how much of and what kind of an asshole is donald trump is a goddamn full-time job
posted by murphy slaw at 7:18 AM on August 23, 2016 [24 favorites]


THE PICKLES WERE LEGIT.
posted by mochapickle at 7:18 AM on August 23, 2016


THE PICKLES WERE LEGIT.

PICKLE JUICE CAN'T MELT STEEL BEAMS!
posted by Talez at 7:19 AM on August 23, 2016 [29 favorites]


I betcha Mayor Duke couldn't have opened those pickles.

But he'd sure be happy if you did and gave him one.
posted by chris24 at 7:21 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


For older folks, I would try some variation of "They're the John Birch Society, but on the internet."

And on top of the Birch-style rage and paranoia, they've added a nice dollop of puerile, middle-school-cafeteria bullying. Let's all gang up on the brown kids, the fat kids, the queer kids, the girls that don't know their place...
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 7:22 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Can we not do this? Not everyone is cut out to be a full-time caregiver. And even those who are may need breaks.

Oh, I totally agree, but how does that actually work out for so many mothers? I mentioned it in the context of a working woman expressing her guilt as a mother with a stay-at-home dad. And wondering how things would be different with the genders reversed.
posted by moody cow at 7:25 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


i think i could mostly explain the alt-right to my dad but i'd probably lose him when i started talking about "rare pepes"
posted by murphy slaw at 7:25 AM on August 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


But he'd sure be happy if you did and gave him one.

Is Mayor Duke actually Mr. Pickles?

posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:26 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


The overwhelming response of the police in America, including the 'good' ones, is to defend their colleagues when they openly and obviously murder people. Even when it enrages entire communities and makes their own job much more dangerous.

Nothing could be more Trump.


That does make sense when you consider his obsession with loyalty. Let me guess what 25-year-old Trump would have thought about Frank Serpico.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 7:28 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


O’Reilly Interrupts Trump’s ‘Tough’ Talk to Remind Him Cops Can’t Just Beat People Up.

I think even O'Reilly is passing on the Kool-Aid at this point.
posted by Talez at 7:28 AM on August 23, 2016 [28 favorites]


"All I know is that I went to this one random policy officer and he said he could stop murders in a week and I totally believed him and didn't ask him how!"
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:32 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


I had to google the jar of pickles thing.

Jimmy Kimmel Has Hillary Clinton Open Jar Of Pickles To Demonstrate Her State Of Health

That is a real headline, for a real thing that actually happened. The link also has video, because if you didn't include one, people (including myself) would think it was satire.

Good lord. It's like the whole country has overdosed on crazy pills.

To open the debates, she'll announce, "Donald Trump? I crap bigger than him." And start doing one-armed pushups on the stage.
posted by zarq at 7:35 AM on August 23, 2016 [27 favorites]


I'm sure Carlos Danger finds ways to occupy his time.

Just a few weeks ago, somebody catfished him. He kept it deniable, but apparently he wanted to meet. I wonder how Huma must think of him in the long term, while she's watching the media make her mentor carry her tomcat husband's sins around her neck.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:37 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Gelatin: NPR: Research Challenges Assumptions On Why Voters Support Trump

In which Tamara Keith interviews Trump supporters and tries really hard not to point out that their racist opinions are racist.


Oh, they're more complicated than that. As seen in the Daily Show clip "Putting Donald Trump Supporters Through an Ideology Test" (also on YouTube) that Talez posted in the prior thread, we see that Donnie's followers also anti-Islamic and sexist. Spoiler: they all failed Donny's own Extreme Vetting.

It's pretty clear what's in those people's hearts: hate and fear. I think the best response is a one on one campaign, which I call "better know your neighbors," where brave representatives of those hated and feared classes sit down and share some tea or coffee with Donnie's dupes. If we can't send people on a tour of other countries, let's bring some diversity to them.

Except I'm saying this as a white, cis dude, so I'm in no position to be offering others as ambassadors for The Others that are so reviled by some.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:39 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Millennials 'are forming their first impressions of what it means to be Republican,

This seems unlikely. At least, I mean, I fucking hope it is. The median age for snake people is what, like, mid-20's? If they're really forming their first impressions of Republicans during their third presidential election cycle as eligible voters, I have no response to that.
posted by dersins at 7:42 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


indubitable: As we've established, peddling racism, lies or worse is A-OK with most of the media as long as you don't personally offend them. We should be thankful that Trump is this stupid.

Here's the thing: confronting lies can be hard, and racism doubly so. Calling someone a liar means you're willing to fight for the truth. Calling someone a racist is often seen as a personal attack, because most people will at least say that racism is a bad thing, and racists are bad people, but oh no, they aren't bad people.

Also, it takes time to really address lies, and much more time to discuss the real meaning of someone's racist comments, or more so get to the roots of their racist views. And despite having 24 hours of news to fill, those long conversation aren't worth the air time, because there are other things to be discussing, even when there aren't. So media people gloss over terrible things and move onto the next topic.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:44 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Millennials 'are forming their first impressions of what it means to be Republican

This seems unlikely. At least, I mean, I fucking hope it is. The median age for snake people is what, like, mid-20's? If they're really forming their first impressions of Republicans during their third presidential election cycle as eligible voters, I have no response to that.


As part of the non-stop infantilization of youngish adults, 'snake people' continues to mean everyone from 10 year olds to someone born in 1982.

Basically if you're under 40 now, you are some kind of bizarre cyborg with a permanently attached iMyFacePad, a permanently attached eyeroll, and are in a permanent state of needing to be "explained".
posted by dis_integration at 7:46 AM on August 23, 2016 [37 favorites]


To open the debates, she'll announce, "Donald Trump? I crap bigger than him." And start doing one-armed pushups on the stage.

I was secretly hoping Hillary would start doing burpees on camera. I would be thrilled if one of the debates was replaced with a live burpee competition.

(And I bet Tim Kaine can do at least five burpees.)
posted by Metroid Baby at 7:46 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


New Roanoke College poll of Virginia:
Clinton 55
Trump 36


Niiice. Not your father's Old Dominion.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:47 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


No one is attacking Melania Trump over her immigration status. She's reportedly planning to sue the Daily Mail for reporting that the modeling agency she worked for pimped out their models.

Ah but, see, there's a trap in here. If Melania can produce a work visa from 1995, that would be a clear and easy way to show she was doing legal modelling work in the US.

I believe that's the real goal here, since she won't address the multiple contradictory statements she's made about her emigration path.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:49 AM on August 23, 2016


Oh, they're more complicated than that. As seen in the Daily Show clip "Putting Donald Trump Supporters Through an Ideology Test" (also on YouTube) that Talez posted in the prior thread, we see that Donnie's followers also anti-Islamic and sexist. Spoiler: they all failed Donny's own Extreme Vetting.

My absolute favourite part of that video is when Jordan Klepper sneaks in that "you're too fucking stupid to even see why you're a hypocrite" line.
posted by Talez at 7:51 AM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


Meanwhile, the difference between Democrats and Republicans is once again pretty goddamned stark.

Democrat #1: "Look at Donald Trump's erratic behavior. His mood swings. His inability to remember what positions he's taken in the past. His aggressive late night tweets. His paranoia. His conspiracy theories. Has anyone considered the possibility that he might be mentally ill or have early onset Alzheimer's? After all, his dad had the disease and...."

Democrat #2: "Can we not do this? You're not a mental professional and even if you were it's unethical to diagnose anyone without knowing their medical history. We can attack his positions on the issues and what he actually says, without making baseless personal attacks and perpetuating vicious stereotypes about the mentally ill."
...
Republicans: "Hillary Clinton sneezed at a rally. Let's take out ads in all 50 states proclaiming that she's a weak, sickly ambitious harpy who is physically and mentally unfit to be President."
posted by zarq at 7:53 AM on August 23, 2016 [62 favorites]


"I think even O'Reilly is passing on the Kool-Aid at this point."

That was such a weird exchange - especially O'Reilly letting Trump talk over him so much. I got the impression Bill was getting frustrated by Trump's repeated attempts to tie every offered lifeline around his own neck.
posted by klarck at 7:54 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


The median age for snake people is what, like, mid-20's? If they're really forming their first impressions of Republicans during their third presidential election cycle as eligible voters, I have no response to that.

Yeah no. We grew up as the Republicans blew up the Arab world, graduated into an economy that was cratering and spent our adult lives watching as they spent 8 years pouting like children who got told no more pie for you.

Admittedly I am not a great example of Average Millenial (evidence: I just made an Oldsmobile joke) but all in all my generation has pretty damn good reasons to renounce the GOP and all its works.

tl;dr the kids are all right
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:54 AM on August 23, 2016 [46 favorites]


Calling someone a racist is often seen as a personal attack, because most people will at least say that racism is a bad thing, and racists are bad people, but oh no, they aren't bad people.

As a white person, I can't say much about racism, but I can say this -- the white people who are grown now were badly taught about it, with the best of intentions. We got a unit on the sixties in high school, where the racists were all murderous hayseeds and cross-burners, but then the Civil Rights Act happened and that was all over, and now as long as you're not that kind of person and you never judge anyone on the color of their skin you'll be good. To a white person who hasn't thought or read much on the subject past that, it's easy to imagine that being called racist is the same as being called a Klansman. This is no excuse, only explanation.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:55 AM on August 23, 2016 [44 favorites]


I saw some frat house movies when I was young. Is all American politics really jocks v nerds?

Other things I don't get - does anyone who didn't trust Trump before going to trust him any more now he's trying to attain some quantum superpositional state of being both Angry Anti-Establishment and Inclusive GOP-lockin Trump? In physics, these things collapse when you observe them. (There are probably jokes about spin states and polarization, but nobody needs those right now.) Also, around the time of the conventions, it was held to be political truth that nothing really starts to get into high gear - the campaigning, the numbers hardening, the races becoming less opqaue - until August is over. I know these tihngs don't follow exact calendars, but is that still true?

It seems to me that there's nothing good coming out of the Trump camp at the moment, just stories about financial chicanery, obtuse bluster and a steady stream of nasy political connections. The email thing - god, give me a break on the email thing - can only have legs because they're got nothing else with anything below the waist.

Where are they going to go in the next two and a bit months, while the Dems have many years of Trump being Trump to bring out lump by bleeding lump and are eager to do just that?
posted by Devonian at 7:56 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


AJaffe: LaRouche76/80/84/88/92/96/00/04/08/12/16...

Stuck on the back of Johnny Cash's Cadillac.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:56 AM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]




I'm not sure what Hillary's speech about the alt right is going to accomplish. I doubt all the Milo fans on the chans are going suddenly stop making antisemitic memes with A. Wyatt Mann and say "we were wrong!" Are there Trump fans who are on the edge and this info will push them away? Is the idea to make establishment republicans uncomfortable enough that they go vote for Egg Mcmuffin or Johnson or whoever?
My son hangs out in these places. He catches the rare pepes. This will push him further to Trump.
posted by Biblio at 7:59 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I've been, I think, making ground for a while by trying to explain to people that racism has two separate meanings. "Racist" basically means a specific kind of jerk. "Systemic racism" which is the whole pattern of things that needs unpicking. And that racism can be used to describe both.

I'm not sure whether this is a good way of explaining things - but it seems to make some ground.
posted by Francis at 8:01 AM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


Biblio, is your son of voting age? I'm curious. You don't have to say, of course, I just wonder how much of the online Trump adulation comes from boys who can't actually vote.

I think her speech, if it's good and gets good exposure, will stoke the left-leaning voters that might not yet feel the stakes were high enough (especially with her good poll performance) for them, personally, to go and vote for her. I also think stoking that kind of passion will be very important for voters who may be concerned (and rightfully so) about intimidation at the polls.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:02 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I don't think the campaign has to explain the full depths of depravity that is the alt-right in all its forms. Wouldn't it be easy enough to pull some of the worst headlines from Breitbart (i.e. birth control makes women angry and ugly etc) and just say *this* is the guy running Trump's campaign now? This is who he ran to when things got bad for him. Even just sticking to the public face of the alt-right should be enough without going into chan culture and the like.
posted by misskaz at 8:05 AM on August 23, 2016 [19 favorites]


He catches the rare pepes.

I don't know what this means but am afraid to Google it pls halp
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:06 AM on August 23, 2016 [29 favorites]


the white people who are grown now were badly taught about it, with the best of intentions.

We were also taught that the ultimate goal is to be "color blind." Even well-meaning people have been talking about race badly for decades. Adults now being told by younger folks that being color blind is actually just another way of being racist are experiencing some pretty extreme whiplash. Which is no excuse for not sitting down, shutting up and learning something new (which many Olds here have willingly done), but there's a lot to be unraveled here.

As for this:
I'm not sure what Hillary's speech about the alt right is going to accomplish.

It's going to get the word out and start a conversation aimed at independents, undecideds, and moderate Republicans. Believe it or not, a lot of people have never heard of the alt-right, they assume Brietbart is just another version of Fox News or CNN, they are not aware of the grossly offensive stuff that exists in that pit of scum and villainy, and they don't know that Trump's campaign is now being run by these same people. Hillary is going to tell them: If you vote for Trump, you are voting in favor of this kind of discourse. Choose wisely.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:07 AM on August 23, 2016 [39 favorites]




I don't know what this means but am afraid to Google it pls halp

It's not NSFW or anything, per se. Also it's the twitter profile pic of many a Trump supporter.

My son hangs out in these places. He catches the rare pepes. This will push him further to Trump.

Hey kiddo, how goes the rare pepes?

Mommmmmmmmmmmmmmm!! *storms out of the room*
posted by dis_integration at 8:08 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm not sure what Hillary's speech about the alt right is going to accomplish. I doubt all the Milo fans on the chans are going suddenly stop making antisemitic memes with A. Wyatt Mann and say "we were wrong!" Are there Trump fans who are on the edge and this info will push them away?

Shining a flashlight on the cockroach nest behind the stove doesn't make the roaches, like, rethink their life choices or anything, but it sure can make prospective tenants think twice before moving into the apartment.

To, uh, belabor a metaphor.
posted by dersins at 8:10 AM on August 23, 2016 [60 favorites]


Also, around the time of the conventions, it was held to be political truth that nothing really starts to get into high gear - the campaigning, the numbers hardening, the races becoming less opqaue - until August is over. I know these tihngs don't follow exact calendars, but is that still true?

It seems like there is always a big push for voter registration because a lot of state have deadlines in the fall. I'm also seeing Zephyr Teachout, a progressive running for congress in upstate NY, has been hitting all the county fairs and such so Yay!

I've been planning with friends to really start our volunteering after labor day. I'm impressed that so many mefites have already started! This video has always reminded me of canvassing in PA in the fall.
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:11 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


ok after several minutes of research I have resigned myself to the fact that I do not understand what this is and I probably never will.

Where do I return my snake people membership card?
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:12 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Biblio, is your son of voting age? I'm curious. You don't have to say, of course, I just wonder how much of the online Trump adulation comes from boys who can't actually vote.

He is 21 and voted for Warren and Bernie in the past. But he has Asperger's and often seems younger than he is. He thinking is certainly black and white about a lot of these things. Because of the anonymity of the anon culture it's impossible to know how old the audience is.

I avoid talking about a lot of topics with him because I'm scared to know how far right he has drifted since gamer gate started. I just keep trying to demonstrate my values and ask him gentle questions to get him to challenge his assumptions. Aside from his disability he is a straight, white, cis guy with enormous privilege. I worry about him all the time.
posted by Biblio at 8:12 AM on August 23, 2016 [23 favorites]


She's with them. The gold digging, soft core porno actor who also appears to be an illegal immigrant and possibly a prostitute. And not allegedly because that's how she was dressed, but because she was working for people who pimped out girls and there are photos of her acting days.

I feel kind of weird when people are uncritically saying that she's "gold bricking" and so on. It feels an awful lot like the stereotypes about Eastern European women as gold bricking mail order sex objects. Her politics are horrible, and obviously the Republicans are hypocrites. But... I'm just feeling weird about taking the gloves off to prove that the candidate's wife was once a prostitute because it'll prove something about the party. What's the outcome here, that suddenly everyone's eyes are open and they realize they were wrong, or that another woman is now just seen as a gold bricking slut? This is fighting fire with fire in a way that makes me uncomfortable.
posted by teponaztli at 8:13 AM on August 23, 2016 [22 favorites]


ok after several minutes of research I have resigned myself to the fact that I do not understand what this is and I probably never will.

What's there to understand? You find pepes and catch them. Some of the pepes are rare so you catch them too. If people continually post rare pepes they're no longer rare.
posted by Talez at 8:14 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Most voters have never heard of the alt-right. Bringing them into a national media conversation is dangerous because they are more logical (in a pseudo-rational Bell Curve kind of way) than the Christian Right and giving them more legitimacy will cause real harm, but for moderates of both sides this will sound like freaking crazy town internet freakshow, continuing the narrative that Trump is a huge scary risk.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:16 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


ok after several minutes of research I have resigned myself to the fact that I do not understand what this is and I probably never will.

Memes aren't about understanding they're about joining in and playing the self-referential, meaningless game.
posted by dis_integration at 8:17 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


YM "memeingless." HTH.
posted by dersins at 8:18 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


> First of its kind statement from Trump team on the nominee's schedule. Lot of changes / immigration speech delayed

TPM: Trump Aide On Nixed Immigration Speech: Policy 'Should Not Be Rushed':
"It’s for a very simple reason, that’s been on the schedule for a while, we inherited it,” Conway told Fox News' Megyn Kelly when asked why the speech was cancelled. “Immigration is a very complex issue and to get the solutions right, to come out with your specific plan, should not be rushed. He is taking in the wisdom of many different counselors on this issue."

[...]

When pressed again on the deportation force, Conway said Trump was "talking about mechanisms" before conceding that "even Sen. Jeff Sessions, who is a very close advisor in this issue, has never called for a deportation force."
posted by palindromic at 8:19 AM on August 23, 2016


Memes aren't about understanding they're about joining in and playing the self-referential, meaningless game.

This couldn't be further from the truth. Memes are about understanding. Memes are a shibboleth. Using them incorrectly is an indicator of an outsider, one who is not versed in memes. Memes are libertarianism and anarchy living up to their ideal goal as memes are chaos that take on universal meaning accepted by the meme farmers and meme consumers alike.
posted by Talez at 8:22 AM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


I'm really not overly reading into this but I do think it's funny that in 2000 there was this chorus of BOTH SIDES ARE THE SAME and in 2008 hardcore Obama fans were all BUSH AND CLINTON ARE IDENTICAL DYNASTIES and those were both wrong on their face but now literally every Bush advisor and family member is coming out in support of HRC as if those lefties were correct but only because she's still a moderate Dem and the majority of the Republican party has lost its freakin mind. My column in the Baffler:
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:24 AM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


I'm slowly getting through this thread, so I'm late on the Bow Tie Derail of yesterday, but I just came across these two links: List of bow tie wearers from "World Heritage Encyclopedia" on Project Gutenberg's self-published sub-site, and Bow Ties and Slam Poetry: This Is Libertarianism in 2015 from Bloomberg Politics.
“I’m on that f*** Jim Crow flow,” says Matthew La Corte. “I’m Thoreau meets Van Gogh after doing three lines of blow.”
Whuuu...
posted by filthy light thief at 8:24 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


All I mean is you're not supposed to understand what the meme "means". Pepe doesn't "mean" anything. Pepe is a game you play according to the rules, and has no meaning outside those rules. So I don't think I'm disagreeing.

Wittgenstein, the Meme Investigations.
posted by dis_integration at 8:25 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


goldbricking != golddigging
posted by entropicamericana at 8:26 AM on August 23, 2016 [12 favorites]


Pepe doesn't "mean" anything. Pepe is a game you play according to the rules, and has no meaning outside those rules.

Pepe is a method of expression. So when something makes you feel unhappy you can use FeelsBadMan and then when something makes you feel good you can use FeelsGoodMan. If something pisses you off to the point of rage you use Angry Pepe. If you're feeling good that Australia beat New Zealand in the cricket you could use the rare smug Australian pepe. Rare pepes are for expressing those esoteric things.
posted by Talez at 8:29 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


We're talking about rare pepes, and I still have Eminence Front stuck in my head from the RNC. I don't think I'm going to make it to November, you guys; I'm getting cognitive lag whiplash.
posted by penduluum at 8:32 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Just install No Script and we'll all disappear
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:33 AM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


Meme floss
posted by y2karl at 8:36 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


och, it always comes back to fuckin' Wittgenstein.

I will just go ahead and put this 'rare pepes' thing next to Monopoly and The Price Is Right on the Shelf of Games People Play that I Don't Understand.

seriously my husband has tried to explain The Price Is Right to me numerous times and I just cannot grasp what is happening or why
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:37 AM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


Also, around the time of the conventions, it was held to be political truth that nothing really starts to get into high gear - the campaigning, the numbers hardening, the races becoming less opqaue - until August is over. I know these tihngs don't follow exact calendars, but is that still true?

"From a marketing point of view, you don't introduce new products in August."

Those are the famous words of Bush chief of staff Andrew Card, who was in charge of selling the idea of the Iraq invasion, in September of 2002 explaining why the Bush administration didn't make the case for the second Gulf War during the summer.
posted by JackFlash at 8:37 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


seriously my husband has tried to explain The Price Is Right to me numerous times and I just cannot grasp what is happening or why

It's advertising that also has commercials.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:40 AM on August 23, 2016 [19 favorites]


Looks like Utah is off the table for Clinton. It was always a fantasy pick, though.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:40 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


I suspect the HRC campaign has focus grouped and polled the "alt right" speech topic and content to within an inch of its life and decided it was necessary or promising. They don't fly blind and changing a speech topic on short notice was not done on a lark.

My guess is that the accumulating pile of ginned-up email scandal/health/conspiracy theory craziness of the floundering Trump campaign won't yield to strategies of either ignoring it (a la Kerry and the swift boat bullshit) or answering every single distracting charge with specifics (which only serves to promote the crazy talk in the media). So discrediting the entire CT enterprise as an organized racist conspiracy itself is a third approach.

I also think she needs to give the "Jeremiah Wright" speech of this season about her email and Clinton Foundation stuff. She could both call out the pettiness and hypocrisy and misogyny of it but also cop to a lifetime of playing within a corrupt system and co-opt Donald's "I can fix it because aI know how it works and have used his system for my benefit" bullshit. She can commit to a new level of transparency, a major anti-corruption push if elected, closing down the foundation for the duration of her term, and a renewed effort at cyber security also aimed at improving the privacy and safety of ordinary peoples' digital lives. Take responsibility and turn it into a new mission to fix the problems that right now you are being accused of embodying. It's Karl Rove 101 shit.
posted by spitbull at 8:40 AM on August 23, 2016 [13 favorites]


Erik Loomis: Eliminate Jungle Primaries
One policy many voting reform advocates like are top-two primaries. But they are terrible because they don’t actually give voters choices. What you often see is the situation we now have in Washington, where the top two primary winners for the office of state treasurer are Republicans because two Republicans ran and three Democrats ran and so the vote was more split on that side. That’s hardly an improvement for some pure idea of democracy that so many voting reform advocates turn into a fetish. The Daily Kos Elections people rip this system apart.
[...] We’ve seen this same phenomenon before, but this is the first single-party statewide election ever to take place in Washington. That’s just terrible for democracy. California also uses a top-two primary, and there, polls show that many Republican voters simply plan to sit out this year’s Senate race between Democrats Kamala Harris and Loretta Sanchez. But at least we know that California, a very blue state, would likely have elected a Democrat to succeed retiring Sen. Barbara Boxer anyway. Washington, by contrast, almost certainly would have voted in another Democrat as treasurer, so the situation here is particularly perverse.

Supposed “good-government” reformers naïvely believed that eliminating partisan primaries would somehow crank down partisan gridlock by forcing office-seekers to moderate their views in order to win. Not only has that not happened, but voters have repeatedly been denied the opportunity to vote for the party of their choice thanks to debacles like these. It’s long past time for proponents to acknowledge their mistake and advocate for a return to proper primaries—and proper democracy.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:43 AM on August 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


She's with them. The gold digging, soft core porno actor who also appears to be an illegal immigrant and possibly a prostitute. And not allegedly because that's how she was dressed, but because she was working for people who pimped out girls and there are photos of her acting days.

I find this statement, and the line of thought behind it, wildly sexist, slut-shaming and reprehensible.

I am willing to harbor debate about Melania's immigration status, because it speaks to Trump's policies and his ignorance of the world around him, close and far.

But anything about her sexual -- or even intellectual -- background is just disgusting as a matter of debate.
posted by Dashy at 8:46 AM on August 23, 2016 [29 favorites]


Looks like Utah is off the table for Clinton. It was always a fantasy pick, though.

Utah goes with the Mormon Church. It's a play that's won or lost on top level negotiations.
posted by Francis at 8:51 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


My problem with calling out Trump's hypocrisy on immigration is that at this point any supporter who really cares about his immigration plan and isn't a complete rube wants a double standard for white and non-white immigrants.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:52 AM on August 23, 2016 [15 favorites]


Immigration is a very complex issue and to get the solutions right, to come out with your specific plan, should not be rushed.

Immigration has been Trump's signature issue for over a year. Why doesn't he have a plan yet?
Because everyone knows what his plan is and they're trying to polish the turd.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:55 AM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


> Honestly, you have to wonder if someone who is a serious Republican at 12 won't outgrow it pretty hard later on

I did; I was waving around my copy of Six Crises at that age (not because I knew anything about Nixon's politics but because my parents were Roosevelt Democrats and of course I enjoyed pissing them off), and a few years later I thought of myself as a Rockefeller Republican (yes, there were moderate Republicans in those days), and my senior year in high school I did some serious reading about Vietnam and civil rights and gave a barn-burning radical speech at graduation and went to college and became an anarchist. But having been a Republican, even as a know-nothing teenager, is an advantage because it inoculates me against the us-against-them, Republicans-are-eeevil mentality that is so common in progressive circles, including MeFi.
posted by languagehat at 8:56 AM on August 23, 2016 [19 favorites]


Is the idea to make establishment republicans uncomfortable enough that they go vote for Egg Mcmuffin or Johnson or whoever?

Or for Clinton or just stay home. Any of these work, and making reasonable Republicans feel awful about voting Trump -- including by saying "Voting for Trump is also voting for these asshats" -- should be a pretty good way to do that. Just drive a few more Republican women, a few more respectable country-club members, a few more print-shop owners to vote Not-Trump or just stay home, and it adds up.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:56 AM on August 23, 2016


Lying about your education under oath, allegedly working as an undocumented immigrant, and allegedly being a prostitute are all illegal. One need not make a moral critique to point out that Melania's husband is running on a campaign of "law and order" and "lock her up."
posted by spitbull at 8:57 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Jimmy Kimmel Has Hillary Clinton Open Jar Of Pickles To Demonstrate Her State Of Health

That is a real headline, for a real thing that actually happened. The link also has video, because if you didn't include one, people (including myself) would think it was satire.


It could have been worse (better?).

She could have fucked Matt Damon.
posted by srboisvert at 9:00 AM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


Can we not do this? Not everyone is cut out to be a full-time caregiver. And even those who are may need breaks.

Oh, I totally agree, but how does that actually work out for so many mothers? I mentioned it in the context of a working woman expressing her guilt as a mother with a stay-at-home dad. And wondering how things would be different with the genders reversed.


Here's how it would be different in a home with a similarly successful male breadwinner and a stay-at-home mom who wanted some home help: they'd get a nanny.

Maybe they wouldn't pay the nanny well (though as such things go, the pay for such gigs in an area like mine is in the $15+/h range) and maybe the stay-at-home mom would feel guilty about taking some help. Unsurprising, given that she'd face expressions of outside judgment like what's seen in above comments with people saying things like she doesn't have a job other than that, what does she need help for? But people with money often employ assistance for things they could do themselves.

Why don't we save our derision for actual offenses and not deploy arguments that look totally like the way shitty people judge mothers all the time? Because I don't see how we stop people from doing that shit to women by using it against men and normalizing parent-judging.
posted by phearlez at 9:01 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


I love this politico.com headline: Coulter: If Clinton wins, 'no hope for any Republican ever winning another election.'

Sadly, Coulter has never said a true thing yet.
posted by bearwife at 9:05 AM on August 23, 2016 [30 favorites]


Immigration has been Trump's signature issue for over a year. Why doesn't he have a plan yet?
Because everyone knows what his plan is and they're trying to polish the turd.


It's odd. There are nearly 2,000 words on immigration policy on the Trump campaign website (I took a copy, just in case) which is pretty nearly Space Shuttle engineering drawing levels of detail for him. And lord knows he's not bothered filling in any policy details anywhere.

So yes, what could be happening? (Yes, sir. Sarcasm.)

(HRC has around 400 words on her site, plus about the same again in an attached fact sheet)
posted by Devonian at 9:07 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Kids go through this hyper-legalistic phase which I imagine makes the spoken goals of Conservativism look really attractive. I would have totally voted Reagan at his age, and I've grown up to be the bloodiest of bleeding-heart liberals while never living anywhere other than the Deep South. There's still hope for that young man.
posted by thebrokedown at 9:09 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


My problem with calling out Trump's hypocrisy on immigration is that at this point any supporter who really cares about his immigration plan and isn't a complete rube wants a double standard for white and non-white immigrants.

They're not really the audience for this though. If this has value at all - and I am ambivalent on the matter - it's in getting the conflicted republican voters to just stay home on the power of "Donald Trump thinks rules are for you, not him." The white nationalists aren't going to be bothered by it, and even if they were they'll vote for him since he's given them overt attention they haven't gotten in their recent lifetimes. Other than trying to limit their ability to cause harm they aren't worth attention.

The battle is and will always be for those people in the squishy middle who could be dissuaded from showing up because he's awful, provided they are reminded enough to keep them from holding their nose and voting for him. The evangelicals who want to talk themselves into believing he's actually changed. The social conservatives who want to convince themselves he'll support their issues. No, he can't really ever be trusted is for them.
posted by phearlez at 9:13 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'll, briefly, sort of speak for how I understand some of the Trump supporters look at things. The guys I see who are all in on Trump are essentially seeking some sort of validation or affirmation of their place in the system. Racialism is a good way to describe how they view things as their concern is less about individuals of different races than groups getting an advantage over them even though they've, as they see it, played by the rules as they understand them.

They see themselves increasingly left out of American culture and see double standards employed to keep it that way. They don't understand how to speak anymore in a way that won't have them called out for racism, sexism, or other sorts of bigotry, while at the same time they see people within different minority groups able to say things they can't without being taken to task for it.

These guys, I think, have a feeling they are becoming irrelevant, being left behind as they don't know how to adapt to the changes going on. The thing is, they're right in that, they are being left behind as the culture is no longer a white man's sanctuary.

It's fairly easy for the socially or media adept among us to change with the times, to understand how different contexts can create different rules and expectations, but these guys aren't adept, they aren't able to process complex information easily, It hasn't been a part of their lives and it didn't need to be since the rules as they knew them had their backs, all they had to do was follow the lead of their "teammates" and they'd be fine.

Unfortunately for them, they are living through the era of negotiation. Ironically I suppose, their support for Trump, the "great deal maker" makes them feel like he will be able to put things back where they were, back where they belong. But they don't see that this era isn't one like those of the past, where the white guys are only negotiating to see who might get a seat at their table, that table is gone, this era is one where the negotiations are about how we're going to run things now that those who've been left out for so long are finally getting a chance to have their say. It's a time where we're deciding the rules for a new society and these guys are going to be on the outside looking in. They aren't going away of course, so they'll try to disrupt the discussions by whatever means they can since that's pretty much the only thing open to them they understand.

I feel some sympathy for their plight, but none for their values and behaviors. They will end up on the outside because that's where they belong. I think we, as a society, would do well to focus more on socializing young men who do feel left out of the culture, not to coddle their values, but to prevent this from being a continuing problem and to bring more people into a healthier relationship with the culture. I don't mean this should be a primary focus, lord knows cis white guys have had that long enough, but at the same time it shouldn't be ignored. Young men in confusion and pain benefit none of us and ignored they can grow malignant and become a threat. Many of the older men aren't going to change, we will have to just outlast them, and if need be outfight them. We just need to make sure their influence doesn't continue to grow. We need to show them their time is over and the world is moving on.
posted by gusottertrout at 9:13 AM on August 23, 2016 [67 favorites]


NYTimes: Media as Referee? Not Anymore: “But this is the moment you wake up and you go, O.K., have we done such an effective job that when I say, for example, ‘What Donald Trump said here is demonstrably false and here is the fact-check from The New York Times or The Washington Post’ — we now have an audience that is conditioned to say, ‘Well, you know, that’s the mainstream media, that is the liberal media, I’m not going to take that seriously.’ ”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:13 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


> Honestly, you have to wonder if someone who is a serious Republican at 12 won't outgrow it pretty hard later on

When I was a freshman in high school (so I guess around 14) my civics class held a mock presidential election and I volunteered as a candidate. I'm not sure if I was labeled a democrat or a republican but my platform was basically "Our country is a mess, let's focus on ourselves stop trying to be the police of the world." (oh my god I'm so embarrassed how much this sounds like Trump). I remember thinking my teacher was pressing me pretty hard on it during the debate event but I stubbornly stuck to it.

I won by a pretty big margin.

Nowadays I consider myself solidly left of center (very left on a few issues) because I read things, met people, travelled the world, ie grew up.
posted by like_neon at 9:14 AM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


Melania Trump is, like Trump's adult children, complicit in this horrifying spectacle.

When Julia Ioffe wrote a profile of Trump in GQ, she received loads of antisemitic hate mail. When asked about her so-called fans, Melania Trump place the blame on the victim of harassment (CW: violent antisemitic images):
“I don’t control my fans,” she replied, “but I don’t agree with what they’re doing. I understand what you mean, but there are people out there who maybe went too far. She provoked them."
At the RNC, Melania Trump gave a speech in which she plagiarized Michelle Obama's DNC speech, after which she proclaimed her "respect" for Ms. Obama. To quote the great Jay Smooth:
If you admire Michelle Obama so much, how is it possible for you to have stood by someone who everyday for months and months was calling Barrack Obama out his name [sic], questioning his citizenship, his faith, his love of country, his intelligence, questioning his very humanity, how could you have stood next to that everyday for months and months and then come here and tell us you admire Michelle Obama so much and make any claim to having integrity?
Melania Trump has not been truthful about her academic credentials.
A number of reports, however, have suggested otherwise. Politico reporter Julia Ioffe, who wrote a profile about Melania that was ultimately derided by Melania herself, noted that Mrs. Trump had dropped out after a year. The New Yorker reported the same in May, and The New York Times in July. Both publications found that Melania dropped out of college, despite her claim to have received a degree.
It is unclear whether Melania Trump was doing paid work in the United States in 1995-1996 with the proper authorization. In a campaign where her husband has repeatedly made oppressive immigration enforcement a cornerstone policy, it's absolutely relevant both to show the broken nature of the immigration system and to display the rank, racist hypocrisy of Donald Trump.

As in the case of Ivanka Trump, I refuse to give this adult human a pass on her complicity in this horror show. Ms. Trump has agency, and she appears to a-okay with personally engaging in dishonest behaviour and her husband's racism.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:19 AM on August 23, 2016 [35 favorites]


I Was A Teenage Anarcho-Capitalist (this poster except its Paul Krugman screaming)
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:21 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


> My platform was basically "Our country is a mess, let's focus on ourselves stop trying to be the police of the world." (oh my god I'm so embarrassed how much this sounds like Trump). [...] I won by a pretty big margin.

I think one of the problems countering this platform is its seductive simplicity.

A counterargument has to make the case that the US is not immune from foreign influences, we're all in this together, trade and international relationships matter, the soft power of American cultural capital is a force for good around the world, democracy around the world makes us safer and gives us better trading partners, blah blah blah. All of this is easy to dismiss with a glib America-first "we're a big country oceans apart from the rest of the world, we should look after our own people" argument.

It's wrong, but demonstrating that it is in fact wrong takes many more words than making the argument.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:26 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


No really, Steve Bannon wrote a "rap musical" abou the LA Riots.

Commence Hamilton jokes!
posted by spitbull at 9:32 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


I think one of the problems countering this platform is its seductive simplicity.

Yes! The problems that we have are deep seeded problems in the very heart of our social fabric. They take generations of hard work to fix! To be told that Donald Trump can stop street violence in a week? There's extrajudicial street justice going to be going on for sure.
posted by Talez at 9:33 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]




An ultra-conservative friend of mine in high school told me conservatives have more fun. Specifically, conservatives get better slogans, where liberals' slogans are all wimpy and soft-sounding.

This election is conservative finally having all their fun. No more Mr. Nice Guy, no more playing games with what they believe. We shall see whether the rest of the electorate finds it as fun or intimidating as conservatives hope.
posted by argybarg at 9:39 AM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


Joy Behar interview with Melania Trump, April 20, 2011:
Joy Behar: What is this with the birth certificate obsession? Did he ask to see yours when you met him?

Melania Trump: Well I needed to put mine, anyway, because if you want to become an American citizen, you need to put the birth certificate. I have a birth certificate from Slovenia. And…do you want to see President Obama’s birth certificate or not?

Joy Behar: I’ve seen it, I’ve seen it.

Melania Trump: It’s not a birth certificate.

Joy Behar: Well, it’s a certificate of live birth—

Melania Trump: Right.

Joy Behar: But, Melania, if he insists on what he’s saying, then no one in Hawaii can ever run for president. Because they all get the same live birth certificate.

Melania Trump: Well, but they need to have—

Joy Behar: Bette Midler is finished, for example.

Melania Trump: They need to have, and, in one way, it would be very easy if President Obama just show it and—

Joy Behar: But he does.

Melania Trump: It’s not only, it’s not only Donald who wants to see it, it’s American people who voted for him and who didn’t vote for him. They want to see that.

Joe Behar: It’s on display in Chicago, we’ve seen it on the internet; we’ve seen it. It is not the same as yours but it is a certificate of live birth.

Melania Trump: We feel it’s different than birth certificate.

Joy Behar: Alright, well, I think you should give it up.

Melania Trump: Well, it’s not him that is bringing up; it’s the media all the time, all the time.
So, that happened.
posted by spitbull at 9:40 AM on August 23, 2016 [69 favorites]


It's fairly easy for the socially or media adept among us to change with the times, to understand how different contexts can create different rules and expectations, but these guys aren't adept, they aren't able to process complex information easily, It hasn't been a part of their lives and it didn't need to be since the rules as they knew them had their backs, all they had to do was follow the lead of their "teammates" and they'd be fine.

You're offering them credit they haven't earned, though. The issue isn't their lack of ability to be adept, it's their unwillingness to make an effort at being adept and their resentment at it being asked of them. They're not incapable of excising some words from their vocabulary and learning to shut the hell up when they should. These racist incident eruptions show that they have been shutting their mouths. The problem is that they don't want to.

I don't disagree that we can't just ignore them; people who can be radicalized on issues such that they'll have violent outbursts can't be just shunned away. In many ways they resemble disaffected young men who get enlisted by terrorist operations because they see no paths available to them, allowing them to be seduced into destruction actions. But the solution there and here isn't to coddle their resentment and hand-hold them through their whiny manfeels. It's to provide opportunities for them to take instead. It's up to them to put down the otherhate.

Some of them won't. But that doesn't mean we should pat them on the shoulder and tell them those particular hateful feelings are understandable or even okay. They're not. All personal improvement comes from saying this thing is bad and here's an alternative.
posted by phearlez at 9:42 AM on August 23, 2016 [19 favorites]


Trump Appears to Embrace Obama's Deportation Policy:
During a series of interviews Monday evening, Donald Trump appeared to reverse his mass deportation policy, saying that he will do the "same thing" as President Obama regarding deportation but "perhaps with a lot more energy."
And hold onto your heads:

"They are going to be out of here so fast, your head will spin...
That wall will go up so fast, your head will spin."
posted by kirkaracha at 9:43 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Oh god, the memories are flooding back in.

I am pretty sure during the debates my teacher asked me how I was planning on putting America First if I thought the economy was one of the biggest challenges and I basically responded that if we redirected our "foreign budgets" towards domestic issues we'd have more than enough to tackle healthcare, education, crime, etc...

And I do remember the heady feeling I got with coming up with snap answers and trying to lead my opponent and teacher into "gotcha" moments, it was intoxicating.

Luckily I also discovered boys that year and I lost all interest in looking like an ambitious nerd and became a song girl instead (and was damn good at it, my squad placed second nationally).
posted by like_neon at 9:43 AM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


Basically I'm saying I think Trump is channeling me as a 14 year old girl and my advice to him would be to practice those split jumps to really get an edge at try outs.
posted by like_neon at 9:46 AM on August 23, 2016 [42 favorites]


allegedly working as an undocumented immigrant, and allegedly being a prostitute are all illegal

No they're not. They're only illegal if you actually did those things. Anyone can throw around allegations.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 9:47 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Lol ok I should have put parentheses around my "allegedlys."
posted by spitbull at 9:51 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


allegedly being a prostitute

OMG can we not do this?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:54 AM on August 23, 2016 [30 favorites]


And I do remember the heady feeling I got with coming up with snap answers and trying to lead my opponent and teacher into "gotcha" moments, it was intoxicating.

I'm reminded of my 11th grade government class, wherein I played the right-wing libertarian, my friend Petr (a big red-headed Russian bear of a guy) went full commie and our teacher amusedly bantered with us from a centrist pov.

everyone else in the class was generally sleeping
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:55 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm reminded of my 11th grade government class, wherein I played the right-wing libertarian, my friend Petr (a big red-headed Russian bear of a guy) went full commie and our teacher amusedly bantered with us from a centrist pov.

Wow, that brings back some 11th grade memories. We had a guy who would argue from the communist PoV in our history class, while the rest of us would gang up on him from the capitalist perspective. I don't recall any right-wing libertarian types, although they might have preferred to keep their heads down. Ah, the certainty of youth.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:00 AM on August 23, 2016


I feel like I was simultaneously a libertarian and a theocrat for a few years. Not sure how that worked.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:03 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Given that there's so many of those the two can't be that incompatible.
posted by Artw at 10:05 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I gave a speech in speech class about how we could redirect the peace dividend! I had a pie chart showing how much I felt we could spend on additional welfare, environmental protections, national healthcare....that's kind of depressing, actually.

I'm not sure "the US should stop spending its money on foreign military adventures" is a right-wing position, though. I mean, show me which foreign military adventures of the last thirty years have genuinely achieved their humanitarian aims - it's a pretty short list. And the number which have been equivocal or made things actually worse seems to be pretty high.
posted by Frowner at 10:08 AM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


I feel like I was simultaneously a libertarian and a theocrat for a few years. Not sure how that worked.

Something like a quarter of American libertarians are evangelicals, so it's far from unusual.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:09 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]




And the rest of them are still evangelists.
posted by spitbull at 10:11 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]



I'm not sure "the US should stop spending its money on foreign military adventures" is a right-wing position, though


It certainly can be, see e.g. Pat Buchanan.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:11 AM on August 23, 2016


allegedly being a prostitute

There's a lot of problems with prostitution. First, like marijuana, it's not illegal in all 50 states. Second, also like marijuana, we've inherited its illegality from our puritan upbringings: it's genuinely debatable whether it should be illegal or not.

Third, and much more problematically, its illegality is 99% used to penalize women. That is sometimes directly, as in arrests and a legal record, or indirectly, as in pimping and sex slavery. But always, always used against women.

So even the allegation of existing near prostitution is a form gender-specific slut-shaming that one should work to avoid, as far as insults, and even casting doubt against presidential candidates, go.

Let's be better than that. Please.
posted by Dashy at 10:12 AM on August 23, 2016 [35 favorites]


The notorious Breitbart News honcho and “CEO” of the Trump campaign has a colorful history as a Hollywood Republican. For years, Bannon coasted through Hollywood as an unabashedly right-wing filmmaker

Well no one coasting through Hollywood would have any scandals worth repeating.

“Shakespeare was a natural rapper,” the flier reads. “This becomes evident in the delivery of this updated blend of two seemingly disparate genres—street rap and Elizabethan drama…

. . . Withdrawn.
posted by petebest at 10:12 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


fivethirtyeight called the Utah guy Egg McMuffin on their podcast yesterday so that's catching on.
posted by zutalors! at 10:12 AM on August 23, 2016 [15 favorites]


PPP Utah showed Trump 34, Clinton 29, Johnson 12, and McMullin at 9, Stein at 1, Harambe not a choice.
posted by spitbull at 10:14 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


You're offering them credit they haven't earned, though. The issue isn't their lack of ability to be adept, it's their unwillingness to make an effort at being adept and their resentment at it being asked of them. They're not incapable of excising some words from their vocabulary and learning to shut the hell up when they should. These racist incident eruptions show that they have been shutting their mouths. The problem is that they don't want to.

I was putting things along the lines of how they perceive things, not how I feel they should behave. As far as what they say, yes, they can and should shut up and listen, but many of them actively do not understand some of what they see as changes in rules over speech. That's their big anti-PC kick. They don't pick up nuance, they aren't good with context, they don't like change and aren't even sure what they have to change entirely. They do know some of the things that aren't supposed to be said and find some freedom in expressing those things around like minded types if that's what they've understood as "true" in some form or fashion.

They strongly believe that most liberal talk is bullshit, made up nonsense designed to confuse people, probably since it confuses them. Things are changing quite rapidly compared to our much more static past surrounding these issues. That doesn't excuse their behavior as there is no excuse for the intentional pain they try to inflict as a way to keep being noticed, but it does seem to be a real threat to them because it is beyond their understanding.

This is social change on the equivalent level of the technological changes during our lifetimes, to not understand the culture can be frightening to people and, if you're an asshole, it's not unlikely you'll try to frighten other people in return.

I of course agree we can't accept their behavior in any way, but if we can try to better understand where they're coming from we can potentially do a better job of preventing more young people from joining them before it's too late.
posted by gusottertrout at 10:14 AM on August 23, 2016 [20 favorites]


Man, this Monmouth poll does not look good for the GOP:
The presidential race in Missouri couldn't be closer according to the Monmouth University Poll , with Donald Trump holding an insignificant single point lead over Hillary Clinton. Republican senator Roy Blunt has a small 5 point edge in his bid for a second term, while Democrat Chris Koster holds a sizable 11 point lead in the race to succeed Jay Nixon as governor.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:15 AM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


50 Years of Electoral College Maps: How the U.S. Turned Red and Blue:
The beginnings of the blue-red regional alignment in today’s American politics can be traced to 1964, when Republicans broke through in the South after almost 100 years of Democratic domination.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:15 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


"Egg McMuffin Johnson" is available as a band name or bluesman persona. Inquire within.
posted by petebest at 10:15 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


I tried to explain 4 chan to my parents once and it was just like "WHAAAAAAA--that's not real, that's just an Internet thing" with the same tone people use to talk about aliens.

I have a similar reaction, except it's more "please stop telling me about your friend's HOA meeting battle and your neighbor's kids book club scandal".
posted by bongo_x at 10:15 AM on August 23, 2016 [13 favorites]


I'm getting a 404. Did they yank it because the trolling was just too next-level for the weak, low-energy American populace?

Still loads for me. Right after the question about Evan McMullin:

Q17 Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of Sausage McMuffins?
Favorable........................................................ 33%
Unfavorable .................................................... 25%
Not sure .......................................................... 43%


(Why sausage, though?)
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:16 AM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


Yeah, I'm getting it now -- must have been a momentary glitch in the Matrix.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:17 AM on August 23, 2016


New HFA ads!

Donald Trump: Demonizing Immigrants

Just One [wrong move and DJT could start a war]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:18 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


It would be more like "Evan "Egg" McMuffin" for his blues name.
posted by spitbull at 10:20 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


My high school government class memories: I took regular Government instead of AP Gov because I had a heavy AP and extracurricular load otherwise, and something had to go. My Government teacher, bless him, knew I was there to coast on the minimum effort possible to get an A and preserve my precious GPA, and more or less left me alone. I was, however, his audience of one for all the political and current events-related jokes he made that went over everyone else's heads. I was a raging, Daily Show-watching, current events-savvy baby liberal and had been for years, which wasn't really common in the conservative and religious California town I went to high school in. It didn't take long for him to catch on that I was smirking or chuckling at his jokes when no one else was, and eventually, he'd end up looking at me like I was the camera in The Office when one of my peers said something egregiously clueless or naive, and I'd look back like, "I feel you."

Anyway, I became a citizen about two weeks after 9/11, and the first national election my family was able to vote in was the 2004 one. The Iraq war, war on terror, and associated Islamophobia were basically our defining issues, and why Republicans effectively lost our votes permanently. Though if I thought little of the GOP then, I had no idea how much worse it could get. I'm one of those millennials who the GOP has lost until the heat death of the universe, though it's not like they ever really had me in the first place.
posted by yasaman at 10:21 AM on August 23, 2016 [34 favorites]


Melania has taken the side of those who punish prostitutes and shame sluts. Her past isn't a problem, it is her present that is the issue. Her past just demonstrates her lack of empathy and her hypocracy.
posted by humanfont at 10:21 AM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


Speaking of sausage...

How Your Anti-Clinton Sausage Gets Made
If you actually read the story, it shows is that Clinton Foundation donors would email Huma Abedin asking to meet with Hillary Clinton to ask for favors. They mostly didn’t get meetings and never got the favors — in other words, there’s not only not a scandal there’s not even a story. But since Hillary Clinton’s “close aide” did answer some emails and I suppose you could call that “access,” the headline is technically accurate.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:21 AM on August 23, 2016 [40 favorites]


They strongly believe that most liberal talk is bullshit, made up nonsense designed to confuse people, probably since it confuses them.

Perhaps this is our insurmountable difference of opinion. I don't think they come to I shouldn't have to change from a position of feeling confused, which makes them angry. I think they are simply angry at being forced to change. Some may be angry at their inability to understand, but I think many don't really want to understand. When they express anger that people of color get to say n----r but it's bad when they say it they aren't pissed because that contradiction confuses them, they're pissed because they have been told they can't do something.
posted by phearlez at 10:25 AM on August 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


So PPP included a question about McMuffins in their Utah poll [real]
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:10 AM on August 23 [4 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]


Wait they're definitely reading these threads then right

Am I taking crazy pills? Did that happen elsewhere?
posted by schadenfrau at 10:26 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Donald Trump: demonizando a los inmigrantes (Donald Trump: Demonizing Immigrants with Spanish subtitles)
posted by kirkaracha at 10:26 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Nah, the Egg McMuffin thing happened instantly, as soon as his candidacy was hot off the griddle. It's cheesy and flakey but it stuck.

It's all over the Internet.
posted by spitbull at 10:29 AM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


I'm luvin' it.
posted by mazola at 10:31 AM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


I, for one, look forward to watching Trump's people try to place a Jeb! campaign on top of a Trump campaign. It will be like every brand of losing.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:32 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


phearlez, I'm sure that is true at some level for many of them, I just don't think a lot of them get to that point. It all seems so alien and complex they just give up, so for the group I'm sure the reasons line up between those points somewhere.
posted by gusottertrout at 10:32 AM on August 23, 2016


I think the best response is a one on one campaign, which I call "better know your neighbors," where brave representatives of those hated and feared classes sit down and share some tea or coffee with Donnie's dupes.

The problem is that I'm sure most of these people already know tons of women, gays, immigrants, etc. (Maybe not Muslims, not everywhere.) I've known plenty of these people, and generally they'll allow that Carlos over there is a stand-up guy, but he's not typical of Those People.

My husband's boss is a Trump supporter (who doesn't intend to vote). He's big on the issue of illegal immigration. My husband spluttered at him, "But you HIRE illegal immigrants!" And he said, "Yeah, but I shouldn't be able to."

These people are masters of cognitive dissonance.
posted by threeturtles at 10:33 AM on August 23, 2016 [45 favorites]


Mike Pence doubles down on Trump's pandering to the KFC-on-private-planes demo.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:35 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


"Yeah, but I shouldn't be able to."


OMG that sums up Trump's entire appeal: recursive situational ethics.
posted by spitbull at 10:36 AM on August 23, 2016 [39 favorites]


I'll, briefly, sort of speak for how I understand some of the Trump supporters look at things. The guys I see who are all in on Trump are essentially seeking some sort of validation or affirmation of their place in the system. Racialism is a good way to describe how they view things as their concern is less about individuals of different races than groups getting an advantage over them even though they've, as they see it, played by the rules as they understand them.

They see themselves increasingly left out of American culture and see double standards employed to keep it that way. They don't understand how to speak anymore in a way that won't have them called out for racism, sexism, or other sorts of bigotry, while at the same time they see people within different minority groups able to say things they can't without being taken to task for it.

These guys, I think, have a feeling they are becoming irrelevant, being left behind as they don't know how to adapt to the changes going on. The thing is, they're right in that, they are being left behind as the culture is no longer a white man's sanctuary.

This point of view has been prevalent through American history, including and especially Reconstruction. I've rarely seen anyone come close to addressing this, especially directly.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:36 AM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


That KFC article was hilarious, but I'm incapable of imagining Mike Pence using the term "shoutout." Bad move, Mike Pence Twitter staff.
posted by infinitywaltz at 10:37 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Mike Pence doubles down on Trump's pandering to the KFC-on-private-planes demo.

Damn you Mike Pence for making Trump look sincere by comparison.
posted by zutalors! at 10:46 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


They don't understand how to speak anymore in a way that won't have them called out for racism, sexism, or other sorts of bigotry

I have some sympathy for them, there. Acceptable language changes at a pace that rivals technology. Imagine being George R. R. Martin and being told that using WordStar was offensive.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:48 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


I've seen exactly one yard sign in my neighborhood (for Johnson), but several bumper stickers for Bernie plus one for Carson. There's plenty of signage for local elections, especially school board and sheriff, but nothing national yet. FWIW, we're in a blue city in a purple county of a normally red state that's in play for Clinton.
posted by Quasirandom at 10:50 AM on August 23, 2016


jokeefe: Indeed, Hochschild reports that nearly all of her subjects have benefitted in direct ways from “a major government service.” Many of them, she adds, are “ashamed and asked me to dissociate their identity from such an act.”

Thinking on this: what if liberals took back social programs, shifting the language from the right's "entitlements" and turning it into "robust social system" or something (there has to be a better phrase). Rejoice in the fact that millions of people are supported by such government services, make these signs of the country's health that those who are injured, sick, or limited in some means can be supported by people who have found such success in this country of opportunities that they can pay a bit to programs of broader good. And don't just talk about disability payments, but the public infrastructure of roads, rail and airports, K-12 public education, heck even celebrate our armed forces being a product of (A FUCKING SHIT TON of) taxes.

/public servant rant and joyful proclamation
posted by filthy light thief at 10:51 AM on August 23, 2016 [38 favorites]


Oh, one other sort of associated thing, all these pissed off Trump fans reminds me what we lost with the decline of unions throughout the US. If this kind of tribalism had been able to find root in shared economic connections, where these guys might actually see commonalities across racial lines, then their anger might have been more directed at those who are actually keeping them down rather than those actively trying to better things in this country.
posted by gusottertrout at 10:52 AM on August 23, 2016 [27 favorites]


The President is in Baton Rouge. He'll be talking in the next few minutes most likely (originally was scheduled to be at 1:55 eastern).
posted by cashman at 10:53 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Filthy light thief: How about rebate services? Your tax money coming back in the form of assistance.
posted by gusottertrout at 10:53 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


"Yeah, but I shouldn't be able to."

I'm going to put on my devil's advocate hat for a second and disagree with this. There are tax credits and stuff that I qualify for, so I take them. I like money. But sometimes I don't think the credit or deduction should exist. Like, I think that the 15% tax rate on long-term capital gains is BS but it's not like I fudge my taxes so that I pay a higher rate than I have to.

So someone could point out that I take the deduction that I don't think should exist and I'd say, "Yeah, but I shouldn't be able to" just like him. Maybe he feels like he has to hire illegal immigrants because all of his competitors do and he doesn't think the company would survive unless he keeps the playing field level.

(takes hat off)

That said, I would wager hard cash that, if pressed, the rationalization behind his position would involve some elite level mental gymnastics.
posted by VTX at 10:53 AM on August 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


I found this article on CNBC this morning and thought it was interesting from the standpoint of giving Trump an option of releasing only his Form 1040 and his Schedule A, rather than his entire tax return for past years. As the author wrote, it would give people an idea of what his personal financial situation is as regards income, charitable giving and income tax paid.

I suspect he won't be releasing his tax forms at all, though he might produce a cover letter from his accountant stating that he made the best money, gave more to charity than anyone in history and got a refund because Trump.
posted by Silverstone at 10:55 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


The President is in Baton Rouge. He'll be talking in the next few minutes most likely (originally was scheduled to be at 1:55 eastern).

A pity he was too busy golfing to show up there earlier, when he could have rebuked the floodwaters and caused them to recede (this is a power all presidents have)
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:56 AM on August 23, 2016 [18 favorites]


Sort of different to say "I shouldn't have this perfectly legal advantage and the law should be changed" to "I shouldn't be able to break the law to my own advantage but I will."

Certainly, if your candidate is running on "law and order" themes.
posted by spitbull at 10:58 AM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


Man I hope he brought more play-doh! For the children!
posted by spitbull at 10:59 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


And don't just talk about disability payments, but the public infrastructure of roads, rail and airports, K-12 public education, heck even celebrate our armed forces being a product of (A FUCKING SHIT TON of) taxes.

I'd also hope for a flip side to this where people generally recognize the role of luck in their success and view taxes as a way to compensate the country for that luck. Then people can brag about their success by being proud of how HIGH their tax rate is.

"I'm such hot shit I pay 30% of my income as taxes! I am awesome and I help make America awesome too!"*

Guess what song I have stuck in my head now?
posted by VTX at 10:59 AM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


Guess what song I have stuck in my head now?

Slow Ride? Hot For Teacher?
posted by bongo_x at 11:02 AM on August 23, 2016 [23 favorites]


A pity he was too busy golfing to show up there earlier, when he could have rebuked the floodwaters and caused them to recede (this is a power all presidents have)

OBAMA/CANUTE 2016
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:02 AM on August 23, 2016 [13 favorites]


Guess what song I have stuck in my head now?

Slow Ride? Hot For Teacher?


Well sure... NOW~!
posted by Aznable at 11:03 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


my brain retrieved this from some musty oubliette thanks to spitbull
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:03 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Actually, in his 2008 Grant Park victory speech Pres. Obama said something like "this is the moment when the oceans start to recede" (referring optimistically to reversing climate change).

And right wingers have used it as a derisive sneering trope ever since.
posted by spitbull at 11:05 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


"I'm such hot shit I pay 30% of my income as taxes! I am awesome and I help make America awesome too!"*

Due to a mixup earlier this year when I moved departments at one job and quit the other I was working, for about six weeks I was having income tax withheld at about a 35% rate. I offered to simply accept enough pay to owe that much in income taxes rather then correct the paperwork, but my offer was politely declined.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:06 AM on August 23, 2016 [19 favorites]


The president referenced this site, for people who want to help: http://volunteerlouisiana.gov
posted by cashman at 11:07 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


what if liberals took back social programs, shifting the language from the right's "entitlements" and turning it into "robust social system" or something (there has to be a better phrase)

You could go a long way by just structuring them as refundable tax dinguses and setting up withholding so it can flow both directions. I mean, we're doing fine, but the feds still pay 28\% of our mortgage. If we were richer, they'd pay ~40\% instead because that makes sense.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:07 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


"...shifting the language from the right's "entitlements" and turning it into "robust social system" or something..."

S.I. Hayakawa wrote about just this idea.
posted by klarck at 11:08 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I can't get over that Anthony Weiner story Countess Elena linked to waaaay upthread. How reckless can a person be? JFC, get some help, Weiner.
posted by sallybrown at 11:13 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


would it be unethical of us to try and catfish Anthony Weiner into showing up at a MeFi meetup
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:16 AM on August 23, 2016 [25 favorites]


Sort of different to say "I shouldn't have this perfectly legal advantage and the law should be changed" to "I shouldn't be able to break the law to my own advantage but I will."

Yes, and it's different to break a law and say "I don't think this is a just law" versus breaking a law and saying "I should be punished more for this."

I mean, it's the restaurant industry, and everyone knows kitchens everywhere are full of illegal immigrants. If he didn't hire them, he'd have to increase wages to attract anyone else. But Republicans don't want to raise the minimum wage, but it seems to me they'll end up at the same place by actually enforcing labor laws and eliminating a huge pool of cheap labor.
posted by threeturtles at 11:18 AM on August 23, 2016


the feds still pay 28\% of our mortgage. If we were richer, they'd pay ~40\% instead

Ability to deduct decreases as income rises, so probably not, if I understand where you're going here.
posted by achrise at 11:24 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


The Young Turks: #LoserDonald And Morning Joe Call Each Other Drunks
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:27 AM on August 23, 2016


Anyone curious about Anthony Weiner and Huma Abedin should watch the documentary Weiner.

Warning that your curiosity might not be sated even after watching.
posted by zutalors! at 11:30 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


From prize bull octorok's PPP link: "To give credit where it's due though Trump voters in Utah, contra North Carolina and Texas, at least don't think that ACORN will be the organization stealing the election for Clinton. "

wut.
posted by sldownard at 11:31 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


It's a popular belief amongst Trump supporters that ACORN will steal the election for Clinton, despite ACORN having ceased to exist half a decade ago.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:34 AM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


He's big on the issue of illegal immigration. My husband spluttered at him, "But you HIRE illegal immigrants!" And he said, "Yeah, but I shouldn't be able to."

These people are masters of cognitive dissonance.


I dunno, maybe it's not that dissonant. I think the top earners should pay more tax. Warren Buffett does too. But I'm not going to tack an additional 1% onto my returns; I'm going to vote for candidates who want a more reasonable tax structure for all.

(and I see VTX and others touched on all this too)

It's not quite a correct parallel, since I'm not breaking the law, but presumably this boss is operating in a structure where other employers are similarly employing undocumented workers. I don't think it's necessarily a complete abdication of his stance to be in favor of a system that actually enforces the law. It's also possible - if maybe unlikely - that he's doing everything entirely above-board with regards to pay and taxes and simply not verifying their legal status to work.

Now, I think it's almost certain he exhibits dissonance with regards to other actions that might lead to enforcement. We've had systems in place like eVerify for years and the supposed voices against unchecked immigration have fought tooth and nail against making it compulsory. So there's actually a path you can walk, albeit winkingly, where you employ people who you probably know are giving you a bogus social security number, and still be following the law. But that's because the law is toothless in a lot of ways, missing sufficient penalties and enforcement. Employment check enforcement actually dropped during Bush II.
posted by phearlez at 11:34 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Is the Weiner doc streaming anywhere? I want to Google it but I'm on my work laptop and I feel like a search for "weiner movie" is probably going to make some IT eyebrows raise.
posted by palomar at 11:34 AM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


wut

Republicans tend to believe that ACORN still exists and is working against them.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:35 AM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


Which is a big tell about the average age of Trump-supporting Republicans: they remember ACORN like it was yesterday. That's not the kind of thing you recollect if you're currently 30.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:36 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


And Acorn doesn't exist in Utah because...no black people!!!
posted by readery at 11:36 AM on August 23, 2016


I got the ACORN part, since a lot of people mistakenly believe that organization still exists. But what's contra North Carolina? If it's a city that is completely founded around an industry of goods, services and employment based on the game Contra, well you can sign me up up down down left right left right now.
posted by cashman at 11:36 AM on August 23, 2016 [16 favorites]


Ben Schreckinger at Politico: Anti-Trump operatives targeted in online ‘catfishing’ scheme:
Steven Wessel is a convicted con man with a Big Apple flair, feigning connections to Ronald Reagan and pretending to be an Oxford man while bilking rich Manhattanites of $750,000. But his last scam before heading to prison this spring targeted a very different kind of mark: Republican operatives opposed to Donald Trump.

And now those operatives are wondering who put Wessel up to it.

Assuming a variety of fake online identities, including that of a female solicitor in England, Wessel gushed in emails, phone calls and Twitter messages about (made-up) extramarital affairs with the likes of the late Lee Atwater, showered marks with gift cards to the swanky Mandarin Oriental, and invited them to go pheasant-hunting in Scotland — all in an apparent attempt to glean more about the operatives and their intentions regarding Trump. That was until federal prosecutors learned of the activity and a judge revoked Wessel’s bail in April, sending him to prison to begin serving a 55-month sentence ahead of schedule.
posted by palindromic at 11:37 AM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


Is the Weiner doc streaming anywhere?

CanIStream.It and MovieFone say it's not available free anywhere yet.
posted by Etrigan at 11:39 AM on August 23, 2016


> And part of why I despise much of the current GOP rank and file is precisely because I find them so willing to believe in falsehoods, to have let their minds rot by living in echo chambers catering to their ids.

That's not a GOP thing, that's a human thing; if you think much of the current Dem rank and file isn't willing to believe in falsehoods and let their minds rot by living in echo chambers, you're delusional. And the willingness to demonize the Other by picking on some human failing and making it a specialty of the Other, while Us Good Guys specialize in virtues of various sorts, is at the root of much of what's wrong with human history. I know it's hard, but things go a lot better if we try to see each other as struggling and fallible humans rather than demons and angels. We are sinners all.
posted by languagehat at 11:39 AM on August 23, 2016 [15 favorites]






But what's contra North Carolina? Dancing
posted by achrise at 11:40 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Is the Weiner doc streaming anywhere?

You can rent on Amazon for $4.99.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:41 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Is the Weiner doc streaming anywhere? I want to Google it but I'm on my work laptop and I feel like a search for "weiner movie" is probably going to make some IT eyebrows raise.

Just google "Sausage Party" after and you're probably good.
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:41 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


contra meaning "contrasting". Think of it in that sentence as "as opposed to":

To give credit where it's due though Trump voters in Utah, as opposed to [voters in] North Carolina and Texas, at least don't think that ACORN will be the organization stealing the election for Clinton.
posted by Roommate at 11:43 AM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


They also sparred over Bongino’s two failed campaigns ― running unsuccessfully for both the House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate ― in Maryland before moving to Florida.
Oh, that guy. Sorry about that FLA.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:44 AM on August 23, 2016


Republicans tend to believe that ACORN still exists and is working against them.
Trump's Mirror? The most powerful pro-Republican organizations officially don't exist.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:47 AM on August 23, 2016


I know it's hard, but things go a lot better if we try to see each other as struggling and fallible humans rather than demons and angels. We are sinners all.

I think it's a spectrum and some people are better/worse at it than others. I would argue that liberals (and maybe not democrats) are typically a lot better at this than others.

Metafilter is a good example. It's an echo chamber in that just about everyone says the same sorts of things but there is still a ton of disagreement. We fact-check and question each other constantly and the average mefite is pretty good at questioning themselves.

It's not an echo chamber just because every time someone asks what 2+2 is, we all shout, "4!"

The "bad guys" as much as there are bad guys, are 100% certain that they're the good guys. You can tell who the "good guys" are because they're not so sure they're doing the right thing (or the most right or doing it the right way, for the right reasons, etc.)
posted by VTX at 11:51 AM on August 23, 2016 [16 favorites]


Clinton opens campaign HQ in Utah:
The Clinton campaign announced Monday the opening of their first general election office in Salt Lake City, bolstering a recent effort by the Democratic nominee to build support among Utah’s religious community.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:53 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


I am a bit unnerved every time I see "four-way" polls.

These are not four people I want to imagine together in that way.
posted by chonus at 11:54 AM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


Daily Kos: Penn Jillette on Donald Trump, “However bad you think he is, he’s worse” yt

Seeing Nick Gillespie conducting an interview over the words DAILY KOS are just sort of the par for the course oddity of this political season, innit?
posted by phearlez at 11:54 AM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


That's not a GOP thing, that's a human thing; if you think much of the current Dem rank and file isn't willing to believe in falsehoods and let their minds rot by living in echo chambers, you're delusional.

That's a false equivalence though. Both the depth and breadth of the delusions the right takes as gospel regularly exceed that of the left. There's no equivalent conspiracy theory like ACORN stealing the election (or its more emphatically racist cousin, the NBPP intimidated voters) that the left traffics in. The closest--that the 2000 election wasn't decided by the voters--has far more empirical evidence (up to and including a Supreme Court case) than either of those, and in the case of ACORN has the virtue of not depending on the parties in question no longer existing. Not to mention, of course, that the conspiracy theories of the right carry weight with elected and appointed officials all the way up to the top of all three branches of government, resulting in the creation of laws based on those falsehoods and the blocking of laws meant to address the issues (usually out-and-out bigotry) they're a smokescreen for.

The rot is far deeper and has far more power on the right, and is being used to hurt many more people. Let's not pretend otherwise.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:57 AM on August 23, 2016 [39 favorites]


And part of why I despise much of the current GOP rank and file is precisely because I find them so willing to believe in falsehoods, to have let their minds rot by living in echo chambers catering to their ids.

That's not a GOP thing, that's a human thing; if you think much of the current Dem rank and file isn't willing to believe in falsehoods and let their minds rot by living in echo chambers, you're delusional. And the willingness to demonize the Other by picking on some human failing and making it a specialty of the Other, while Us Good Guys specialize in virtues of various sorts, is at the root of much of what's wrong with human history. I know it's hard, but things go a lot better if we try to see each other as struggling and fallible humans rather than demons and angels. We are sinners all.

In general, I agree with this. Empathy is one of the most important tools to improving yourself and seeing the world more correctly. There are (at least) three other tools in that toolbox: education, skepticism, and self-awareness.

The problem with our current political climate is that people with those four tools send to see the world in more nuanced ways. They tend to have sympathy for the other, and are willing to sacrifice to help them. And they are willing to adjust their beliefs when given new evidence. Since roughly 1992, all of these things are antithetical to what the Republican party has aligned itself with.

I really want to be the person who can say "Look, those other guys over there, they are people too. We can work with them and figure out our disagreements." But that just doesn't feel true right now. And it hasn't for almost 25 years.
posted by macmac at 11:57 AM on August 23, 2016 [36 favorites]


Melania interest falls into three categories.
1) Journalists are free to dig up as much background on her as they want-- that is their job.
2) Clinton's campaign is not going to touch her with a ten foot pole because they are not going to drag relatives into this. Trump and his operatives are fair game.
3) On MetaFilter then we can talk about her with interest (i.e.gossip) but arguing about what dirt should stick to her isn't our place nor should we take that fight to social media. I think talking to friends and family, however, is best left to your own discretion.

My take on her is that Slovenia was probably not a place with much future and being blessed with good looks she took herself to the place with the best opportunities. She landed a big fish but my god the amount of work that must go into her daily life appeasing Donald and his ego must be tremendous. Then there is all of the family in-fighting to make sure that she and Baron remain in the will because I'm guessing Ivana's children play hardball and are constantly watching her like a hawk. The smallest sign of disloyalty or dissatisfaction would be reported to Daddy. Who knows what she really thinks? After 18 years with Donald she probably doesn't know herself. You have to wonder if she dreams of being free of him, though.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:00 PM on August 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


Since roughly 1992, all of these things are antithetical to what the Republican party has aligned itself with.

Exactly. The GOP has essentially forgone science for mythology in the last few decades. The former may not be infallible, but the latter almost never has even a bit of logic behind it.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:00 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


The Guardian: ‘A sense that white identity is under attack’: making sense of the alt-right
But what is the alt-right? It is new, difficult to pin down, and hard to understand. But it’s important to try to get a handle on who is involved, what they believe, and what their possible influence might be on the immediate future of rightwing politics.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:00 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


>I know it's hard, but things go a lot better if we try to see each other as struggling and fallible humans rather than demons and angels. We are sinners all.

I think it's a spectrum and some people are better/worse at it than others. I would argue that liberals (and maybe not democrats) are typically a lot better at this than others.


Hang on, is this a conversation about whether sin is evenly distributed across humans?

The Thread seems to have fallen sideways into a 16th-century theological dispute. Fascinating.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:02 PM on August 23, 2016 [13 favorites]


I am a bit unnerved every time I see "four-way" polls.

These are not four people I want to imagine together in that way.


I agree, a plate of Cincinnati chili isn't complete unless you get both onions and beans, not just one or the other.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:04 PM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


Secret Life, that's a nice story. I hear things were not so promising in Mexico and that's why José Delgado took advantage of his strong back and work ethic to make a go of it in the US. True he didn't land a billionaire, but he's got three good jobs cooking and cleaning at local restaurants and his wife now has 20 houses to clean every week.

So I think Donald should go easy on José and his family, you know?
posted by spitbull at 12:07 PM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


And lol Penn Jilette: "I didn't say his hair WAS cotton candy made of piss, I just said it LOOKED exactly like cotton candy made of piss."
posted by spitbull at 12:11 PM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


Good lord, this Bongino sure is a piece of work. Why does all the crazy in the country hafta drain down into poor Florida?
posted by Don Pepino at 12:14 PM on August 23, 2016


Why does all the crazy in the country hafta drain down into poor Florida?

Gravity + continental drip.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 12:15 PM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


There is no question that Republicans are drawn to authoritarian figures. There's Donald Trump arguing with Bill O'Reilly with his tough guy face and talking about "We are not going to coddle them." There's Ted Cruz bringing up spanking at least twice in his Presidential run. They are catering to their audience who want a strong father figure to take over and run things HIS way because that makes them feel safe. I find myself horrified at the idea of strong men and tough guys and spanking and torture and "Law and Order." I like reason and logic and talking things out and empathy. There is a very clear line and Democrats are on one side and Republicans are on the other. I may sin as much as any Republican but I am not blind to it and I can see it (and therefore forgive it) in others. I don't think Republicans see it in themselves and if they do they don't forgive it. See also: Homophobia.

So I think Donald should go easy on José and his family, you know?

Of course he should. If he wasn't such a blinkered asshole he could equate Melania's story with José's story, but he can't see anything except his own face due to his narcissism.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:17 PM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


In case you have a LinkedIn account and want to make a loooong list of people never to ever hire, check out the comments on Hillary Clinton's posts on LinkedIn.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:19 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


CNN is reporting "Hackers thought to be working for Russian intelligence have carried out a series of cyber breaches targeting reporters at the New York Times and other US news organizations."

So. Clinton campaign opposition research, Clinton e-mails, the DNC, all Democratic members of the U.S. House, and now media organizations. What do all these things have in common?
posted by Spathe Cadet at 12:20 PM on August 23, 2016 [41 favorites]


> O’Reilly Interrupts Trump’s ‘Tough’ Talk to Remind Him Cops Can’t Just Beat People Up.

Talez: I think even O'Reilly is passing on the Kool-Aid at this point.

It's not just being reminded that cops can't just beat up people, O'Reilly is hammering Donny in his non-answers. Asking "what are you going to do?" repeatedly when Donny just trots out some "tougher on crime" line. "How?" Maybe Bill softened later on in the segment, but he sounded honestly annoyed that Donnie kept bringing out the same (agreed upon) fearmongering without any solid answers to the problems. Reminding the Fox viewers that Donnie has no actual solutions. Delightful.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:21 PM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


Why does all the crazy in the country hafta drain down into poor Florida?

they don't know (and i'm not gonna tell them) it's sinking.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 12:22 PM on August 23, 2016


Spathe Cadet : So. Clinton campaign opposition research, Clinton e-mails, the DNC, all Democratic members of the U.S. House, and now media organizations. What do all these things have in common?

A KNOWN LIBERAL BIAS, THAT'S WHAT.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:25 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


Apropos that: Gizmodo published a good article about Florida, today. Not the greatest, not the first, not the last, but a good read.

From the first comment: "The fact that our own governor and most prominent senator basically cover their ears and shout LA LA LA when the topic of climate change comes up is ridiculous. How do people keep voting against their own interests? "
posted by rp at 12:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


If you've been following the news you know that NC's new voter registration laws were thrown out including the Government ID requirement. Which is a very good thing because today my husband got his Driver's License replacement and the photo was a black man with a shaved head and glasses. My husband is none of those things. When he called the DMV they said, "This has been happening a lot lately. You will have to come in in person and we will retake your picture." Terrific. Luckily he works nights so going to the DMV is a PITA but doable. So what happens if you lose your ID just before the election or it comes back with the wrong picture?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [24 favorites]


I think even O'Reilly is passing on the Kool-Aid at this point.

I don't know whether to be happy that even rightwingers seem to be turning against Trump or if I should be prospectively pissed because in five months they're all going to be swearing up and down that they were always NeverTrump and they'll probably get away with it because everything is horrible.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:27 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Oh dang has anyone posted this before? MSNBC on why Trump and Pence keep bringing up KFC (spoiler its a really gross offensive shit meme)
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:27 PM on August 23, 2016


I think one of the problems countering this platform is its seductive simplicity.
...
It's wrong, but demonstrating that it is in fact wrong takes many more words than making the argument.

During my junior year high school social studies class, we debated whether the US should or should not have bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki. My teacher assigned me the pro argument, and I tried to refuse on moral grounds. Teacher threatened to give me a zero unless I wrote a convincing speech that genuinely tried to persuade the class the US had no choice but to drop two atomic bombs on Japan and slaughter 129,000 people.

It was disturbingly easy to write that speech, because most of it had already been written for me. I researched (on microfilm!) articles from the New York Times and other pro-war papers, as well as a bunch of fearmongering, dehumanizing propaganda from the time period. So the entire speech was crafted from op-eds and articles that had been published by the mainstream media in the 1940's, which said that the Japanese were bloodthirsty animalistic, rapist warmongers who had killed men, women, children and even babies en masse during the Sino Japanese wars, and Truman couldn't possibly take the chance that they would create similar carnage on American soil.

Trump's fearmongering and Othering of minorities is part of a very long and worrisome history of racist US propaganda that is hard to counter because it appeals to some voters on a very dark (and depressing) emotional level. And it's oh-so-fucking dangerous because once you've dehumanized entire groups of people and said, "we'd be better off without them," it's not such a huge mental leap to make from advocating deportation vs. imprisonment in concentration camps vs. committing genocide. You see where the path could conceivably go, at the very least.

The class stared at me in silent horror when i was finished. Afterwards, we had to explain what our research had uncovered, and they were even more horrified to find out that I had cribbed most of my damned speech from the news.
posted by zarq at 12:28 PM on August 23, 2016 [77 favorites]


Oh dang has anyone posted this before? MSNBC on why Trump and Pence keep bringing up KFC (spoiler its a really gross offensive shit meme)

Christ. What assholes.
posted by rp at 12:29 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


So. Clinton campaign opposition research, Clinton e-mails, the DNC, all Democratic members of the U.S. House, and now media organizations. What do all these things have in common?

Windows 10.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 12:30 PM on August 23, 2016 [26 favorites]


I knew of the meme but I didn't put it together with Trump's picture and I'm surprised the MSM would go there. Mike Pence and his mother? Really? I have my doubts.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:31 PM on August 23, 2016


he doesn't even have the decency to look the part of the evil rich Republican (well-coifed, finely tailored, pristinely manicured).

Trump is nouveau riche. You're describing old money. Two completely different groups, even if they collaborate occasionally to wreak havok on the rest of the population.

posted by aught at 12:31 PM on August 23, 2016


Christ. What assholes

Yes, that's why we need to go easy on lying, perjuring , plagiarizing, birtherizing, (allegedly) undocumented Melania.
posted by spitbull at 12:33 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Oh dang has anyone posted this before? MSNBC on why Trump and Pence keep bringing up KFC (spoiler its a really gross offensive shit meme)

I'm willing to believe that the candidates' enjoyment of secret herbs and spices is separate from this gross meme but can I just point out this article is from 2013? I don't point that out to diminish Potomac Avenue's good work at digging it up and bringing it here but to note that there was anti-Clinton memorabilia at Republican Convention IN A YEAR IN WHICH SHE WAS NOT RUNNING FOR ANYTHING.

Clinton Derangement Syndrome is real, you guys.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:33 PM on August 23, 2016 [17 favorites]




MSNBC on why Trump and Pence keep bringing up KFC (spoiler its a really gross offensive shit meme)
The Australian right used a variation on the same meme re our first female PM. Wonder who stole it from who?
posted by une_heure_pleine at 12:35 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Oh dang has anyone posted this before? MSNBC on why Trump and Pence keep bringing up KFC (spoiler its a really gross offensive shit meme)

I've been lurking for the past couple of weeks, just reading all the electionfilter posts, but this...THIS....
just when you think you've seen how low the Trump campaign can go, they go even lower! I can't even...
Oh GOD DAMMIT I'M SO FUCKING IRATE RIGHT NOW!
As a woman, ....AW SHIT, i just can't anymore.
posted by ramix at 12:36 PM on August 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


I thought that was a recent article! Yikes. I was reposting from Xeni J on twitter.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:37 PM on August 23, 2016


I think it's much more damning that it's not recent. It's just more proof that these people have desired to destroy this woman for decades, even when she's just sitting at home minding her own business.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:39 PM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


Mod note: One deleted. No, we will not be debating in this thread whether the US was right or wrong to nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:39 PM on August 23, 2016 [41 favorites]


Not only is it not recent...Snopes has its origin as 1993.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:41 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]




Questions About Hillary's Health: The Birtherism of 2016
The fact that there’s no evidence for serious ailments plaguing Clinton is not an impediment to these conspiracy theories; it’s essential to them. In the absence of evidence, campaign surrogates can espouse the theories on television and elsewhere, under the old guise of “just asking questions.” This is a favorite Trump trick. He doesn’t know whether Ted Cruz’s father was implicated in the Kennedy assassination, but he saw a story saying that in the National Enquirer and he’s just asking some questions. Or, to connect this back to the birther issue, Trump doesn’t know that Barack Obama wasn’t born in the United States, but there are some fishy things, and he’s just asking whether there’s any evidence he wasn’t.

The approach requires a certain degree of complicity, from both Democrats and the press. First, it relies on the assumption that Clinton’s backers will be unwilling to fight fire. (Not that they couldn’t do so, extrapolating irresponsibly from a few data points just like their counterparts: Hey, listen, Trump is older than she is, and he’s a great fan of fast food, and …) Second, it depends on the fact that major news outlets will invite Trump surrogates to comment in the name of even-handedness, giving them a chance to air these ideas to a national audience. Poppy Harlow may have been appalled at Kremer’s comments on CNN, but Kremer still managed to get a chance to make them.
The article mentions in passing that the Pillowgate article from... (checks)... a week ago was actually satirical. I honestly have no idea what to make of that claim. It's easy enough to chalk this up to Poe's Law and say "har har, you got us credulous liberals again." It also snagged quite a few credulous conservatives, if Wayne Allyn Root's unhinged ranting in Townhall is representative*.

*"No wonder Hillary’s sick...no wonder she has “health issues”...no wonder she has trouble standing up behind a podium...or sitting on a couch without being propped up by large pillows...or walking up stairs...stress will kill you!"
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:47 PM on August 23, 2016


I am a bit unnerved every time I see "four-way" polls.

Think of it in Cincinnati terms, not sexual terms. Clinton is the chili, because without her there'd just be a pile of disappointment instead of a cohesive whole. Johnson and Stein are the onions and beans, because they disagree violently over what the fourth topping on a four-way should be and as a result neither of them is willing to buckle down to the responsibility of being the spaghetti. Trump is arsenic-laced cream cheese, inasmuch as it vaguely resembles something that's supposed to be there but is completely wrong and turns out to be even worse than it looks.
posted by jackbishop at 12:49 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


They don't understand how to speak anymore in a way that won't have them called out for racism, sexism, or other sorts of bigotry

They could try not being racist or sexist? Instead of deciding to double down on it?
posted by Justinian at 12:49 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


That's a false equivalence though. Both the depth and breadth of the delusions the right takes as gospel regularly exceed that of the left. There's no equivalent conspiracy theory like ACORN stealing the election (or its more emphatically racist cousin, the NBPP intimidated voters) that the left traffics in. The closest--that the 2000 election wasn't decided by the voters--has far more empirical evidence (up to and including a Supreme Court case) than either of those, and in the case of ACORN has the virtue of not depending on the parties in question no longer existing. Not to mention, of course, that the conspiracy theories of the right carry weight with elected and appointed officials all the way up to the top of all three branches of government, resulting in the creation of laws based on those falsehoods and the blocking of laws meant to address the issues (usually out-and-out bigotry) they're a smokescreen for.

It's worse than that. It's projection rather than delusion. The conspiracies/morality plays the right believes the left have done are things that the right has actually done.

Cash for Hostages? Reagan and Iran.
Electoral Shenanigans? Supreme Court, Jeb Bush and Brooks Brother's riot.
Foreign Influence? Sheldon Adelson and Chinese Casino money, Candidate Nixon interfering with Vietnam
Voter Fraud? The very few recent documented cases almost all came from the right.
Marriage Destruction: The republicans who impeached Clinton practically bought divorce in bulk from Costco.

Republicans have fears grounded in their reality. Their aim is just way off.

The jackboots they are afraid of are real to them because it is what they would do.

It's pure 'Dad with a daughter about to date' terror.
posted by srboisvert at 12:49 PM on August 23, 2016 [47 favorites]


Speaking of sexism, I don't remember this being commented on. Donald Trump Reportedly Wanted His Women Staffers to Pose Nude for Playboy
In his 1991 book, Trump, The Greatest Show on Earth: The Deals, The Downfall, The Reinvention, reporter Wayne Barrett included two short paragraphs on Trump’s “sexual fantasy life,” which apparently included him pitching a spread of his employees to Playboy (although it’s unclear exactly when he may have done this):

[Exerp from the book] He even tried to get Playboy to do a spread called “The Girls of Trump,” wooing his most shapely staffers, including a former beauty queen secretary, into posing for the magazine with a sliding scale of offers on everything from full nude to breast to “wet-lip” shots. It was all part of the rakish ethos of phony glamour that he consciously fostered, even to the extent of concealing from public view a very efficient secretary with a pimplish facial condition.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:51 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


And lol Penn Jilette: "I didn't say his hair WAS cotton candy made of piss, I just said it LOOKED exactly like cotton candy made of piss."

I have been trying to find a good way to describe it for months. And there it is.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:51 PM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


I think it's much more damning that it's not recent. It's just more proof that these people have desired to destroy this woman for decades, even when she's just sitting at home minding her own business.

I was a Young Republican back when Bill became president. I recognize the "joke" from way back then.
posted by notsnot at 12:52 PM on August 23, 2016


They could try not being racist or sexist? Instead of deciding to double down on it?

What they need to do is just stop talking and listen and then decide that it costs them nothing to do something that is extremely important to another person.

A lot of us came of age in a time where a lot of things that are now considered (rightly) to be totally racist were explicitly taught to us as ways of not being racist. The cure for that isn't 'don't be racist' it's 'close your mouth, open your ears, and accept that maybe you were taught wrong.'
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:54 PM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


They could try not being racist or sexist? Instead of deciding to double down on it?

That's presuposing their language is inherently racist/sexist. If they push back against "oriental" suddenly being verboten, they're probably being descriptivist rather than racist.

And yeah, you modify your language based on what people tell you, but they probably haven't had those kind of interactions and that's not necessarily their fault.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:58 PM on August 23, 2016


KFC is now a covert sexist-dog whistle?

The more you learn from this site everyday.
posted by 81818181818181818181 at 1:03 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


There's no equivalent conspiracy theory like ACORN stealing the election (or its more emphatically racist cousin, the NBPP intimidated voters) that the left traffics in.

Not to disagree with you on the comparative width and breadth of right-wing conspiracy theories, but I vividly recall a lot of (frankly justifiable) paranoia about voting machine company Diebold potentially fixing the '04 election for Bush. Those fears seemed to mostly go away after Obama won in '08 and '12, even though the machines themselves don't seem to be any less tamper-proof than they were 12 years ago.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:07 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


After DNC Hack, Cybersecurity Experts Worry About Old Machines, Vote Tampering (NPR, August 20, 2016)
Security experts say that Russian hackers have broken into the computers of not only the Democratic National Committee but other targets as well.

This has raised a new wave of concerns that on Election Day, the votes themselves could be compromised by hackers, potentially tipping the results. Most states have returned to paper-backed voting systems in recent years, but that still leaves vulnerable a number of states that rely solely on machines.

Zeynep Tufekci, a professor at the University of North Carolina's School of Information and Library Science, tells NPR's Scott Simon that without these paper-backed systems, up to 15 states could be putting their election results at risk.
For your further reading (dis)pleasure: Ballotpedia: voting equipment by state
posted by filthy light thief at 1:11 PM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


See also: Flashbacks Of Florida 2000 As Voting Machines Age (NPR, March 10, 2016)
While state and federal elections experts agree optical scan units are reliable, the issue that arises is age: Problems crop up when they hit the 10-year mark. This year, 43 states will be using machines that are at least that old, according to the Brennan Center report.

Optical scan units are prone to especially serious problems, "things like motherboard failures, paper jams, the rollers that pull paper ballots into the machines can dry up over time," said Famighetti.

One Florida county had to buy parts off eBay because the manufacturer no longer made them. Famighetti estimates the cost of new voting machines across the country could exceed $1 billion, a tab states and counties would have to pay themselves.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:15 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]




> It also snagged quite a few credulous conservatives, if Wayne Allyn Root's unhinged ranting in Townhall is representative*.

Wow, that guy seems really into his fantasy scenario in which Hillary Clinton is so afraid of Donald Trump that the resulting anxiety is ruining her health. I'm sure this is an isolated thing which is in no way indicative of his attitudes towards women in general.

He also writes like a fourth-grader, but that's a separate issue.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:17 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


For your further reading (dis)pleasure: Ballotpedia: voting equipment by state

After what happened in 2000, you'd think that Florida of all states would at least have a paper backup of its voting machine results, but NOPE.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:17 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


When I was a freshman in high school (so I guess around 14) my civics class held a mock presidential election and I volunteered as a candidate. I'm not sure if I was labeled a democrat or a republican but my platform was basically "Our country is a mess, let's focus on ourselves stop trying to be the police of the world." (oh my god I'm so embarrassed how much this sounds like Trump).

It's good to me that opposition to invading, bombing, and otherwise militarily intervening in far-off countries will be dismissed for years as support for a dumb loudmouthed catastrophe's disingenuous "isolationism."
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:18 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Every Republican administration in my lifetime (except maybe Ford) has been actively criminal or borderline treasonous. Nixon: Watergate. Reagan/Bush 1.0: Iran-Contra. Bush 2.0: Invading Iraq on false pretenses.

Nixon ran a crime ring out of the White house and had the director of the FBI destroy evidence in a criminal case. Reagan and George H.W. "Out of the Loop" Bush illegally supported the contras and traded arms for hostages. George W. Bush manipulated intelligence and lied us into a war that's killed hundreds of thousands of people.

The conspiracies/morality plays the right believes the left have done are things that the right has actually done.

Cut and run? Reagan pulled out of Lebanon after 63 people were killed in the April 1983 embassy bombing and 305 people were killed in the October 1983 Beirut barracks bombings. Imagine if a Democratic president had done that.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:20 PM on August 23, 2016 [20 favorites]


I wouldn't totally rule out Utah for Hillary - we just need to get Trump talking about Mormons while he's speaking without his teleprompter. Chances are good he can manage to offend a lot of LDS folks and make them nervous about a Trump presidency.
posted by rmd1023 at 1:20 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Pen and paper.

Hell, pencil and paper.

Why u use machines America.
posted by Yowser at 1:20 PM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


I don't necessarily like that the Democrats are taking on the alt-right, but it will make for some insane news copy.



“’Big gay hate machine closes Christian pizza parlor,” the man recites. "'Climate expert: Marxist, global warming extremists control Vatican.’”

Hah!

(Forgive formatting, am on mobile)
posted by Yowser at 1:25 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Big Gay Hate Machine! I saw them on their classic Fuck the Breeders tour in '97!
posted by kirkaracha at 1:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [37 favorites]


Zeynep Tufekci, a professor at the University of North Carolina's School of Information and Library Science, tells NPR's Scott Simon that without these paper-backed systems, up to 15 states could be putting their election results at risk.
This is why we need strict federal voting standards. I'm aware that voting is currently (mostly) up to the states for Constitutional reasons, but the states apparently can't be trusted with this responsibility. Between the various laws intended to disenfranchise voters and the reliance on untrustworthy voting technology, I think the states have proven that they're incapable of doing this correctly. Also, I'm getting really tired of lawmakers who don't know anything about technology trying to make laws about this stuff. Either they don't have tech advisors, don't believe them, or their advisors are morons. And, frankly, computerized voting machines just don't age as well as older mechanical methods. I was perfectly fine casting my first few votes on a lever machine concealed by curtains hemmed in the 50's. Unfortunately, most of those old machines have been sunk into the ocean.
posted by xyzzy at 1:27 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


The KFC meme is so old that Michael Moore mentioned it in one of his first books (then immediately turned it around as a reason to sexualize HRC because dudes can be skeevy in every gradient of the political spectrum).
posted by EatTheWeek at 1:29 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


> I would argue that liberals (and maybe not democrats) are typically a lot better at this than others.

Of course you would, you're a liberal!

> It's not an echo chamber just because every time someone asks what 2+2 is, we all shout, "4!"

Right, "reality has a liberal bias." Sigh.

> The rot is far deeper and has far more power on the right, and is being used to hurt many more people. Let's not pretend otherwise.

Sure, and I'm not pretending otherwise, I'm saying we shouldn't allow awareness of a real difference to seduce us into a dichotomy/demonization that is attractive but unhealthy.

> Since roughly 1992, all of these things are antithetical to what the Republican party has aligned itself with.

"The Republican party" does not equal "all Republicans." Just because most Russians support Putin doesn't mean they all do, or that you're entitled to despise any random Russian you meet.

> Fuck that fucking bullshit. I'm not going to turn the other cheek anymore

You do what you have to do, but I wasn't talking about turning the other cheek, I was talking about seeing as fellow humans even those with whom we strongly disagree. Can you really not see the difference?
posted by languagehat at 1:31 PM on August 23, 2016 [25 favorites]


KFC is now a covert sexist-dog whistle?

I mean, there has to be a reason why any person would choose to eat KFC when Popeye's is available.
posted by sallybrown at 1:33 PM on August 23, 2016 [27 favorites]


I question the need to call Breitbart and the alt-right "ultraconservative." Breitbart is not a conservative site. It's a radical website.
posted by My Dad at 1:35 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


So much for "an eye for an eye turns the whole world blind," I guess.
posted by phearlez at 1:37 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I question the need to call Breitbart and the alt-right "ultraconservative." Breitbart is not a conservative site. It's a radical website.

And the Republican party isn't conservative. It's radical.
posted by Francis at 1:39 PM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]




Can we please bring back DarkEnlightenment altright sounds annoyingly like a house subgenre.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:42 PM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


thanks ~~Happy Campers~~
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:43 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I suppose one could report a Trump supporting employer of illegal immigrants to Imigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) at 1-866-DHS-2-ICE .
posted by humanfont at 1:43 PM on August 23, 2016


"DarkEnlightenment" is better in that regard? I would totally click that on iTunes.
posted by rifflesby at 1:43 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


went to Wikipedia to see if Roger Stone was officially working for the Trump campaign, came back with this gem:

in 2007 he had Richard Nixon's face tattooed on his back.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:50 PM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Roger Stone's book: The Clintons' War on Women, is co-authored with Rob Morrow. Morrow has gone off-the-reservation in regards to Trump:

Lying, Raping Donald Trump is a violent, child-rapist and he raped, slapped & threatened a 13 year old girl in 1994 @ Jeffrey Epstein party. Man is sick & evil.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:50 PM on August 23, 2016


Yup, looks like The Onion has locked down their take on Kaine.
posted by ckape at 1:50 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


In my Master's program for Counseling Psych, one of the required courses dealt a bunch with the philosophy of Constructivism. As a life-long reader, occasional taker of recreational drugs, and general weirdo, I grokked it immediately and it worked with the world-view with which I walked into that class. Most of the other students were BLOWN AWAY. Like, it was existential-crisis inducing for many of them. These were folks with presumably around the same amount of general "smarts" as me, but their backgrounds were pretty uniformly Southern Bible-Baptist, which is not known for espousing that there are a multiplicity of realities, and many different, yet valid ways to think and, indeed, live. I felt both sort of sorry for them and also a bit jealous. How much easier it is in some ways see things in such black and white terms.

It is both a great strength and weakness of the Liberal that their tendency is to say, "I don't believe that to be the case, but I can see where you are coming from;" to never say, "YOU ARE WRONG;" to try to understand others. However, this may appear to be weakness and vacillation to people who believe in One True Way, even if they are currently failing at living up to their own stated values.

At this point, though, I am less sorry and jealous of those folks. This happened when I saw that some people are no longer even attempting to argue in good faith towards the ostensible goal of a livable world and a wonderful country. Truthiness and feelings are beating the crap out of facts, and I do believe that has grown worse in my lifetime. If one more person answers my challenge about a mis-attributed quote with, "Who cares who really said it? I think it is a nice idea," (for just one maddening example), I might consider just maybe sometime perhaps not being so empathetic. (But probably not. Sigh.)
posted by thebrokedown at 1:55 PM on August 23, 2016 [15 favorites]


From this thread in 2007, (Final comment "As far as the racist shit, that doesn't even really need a response") to playing a major role presidential election of the united state of america, who would have thunk these pinhead scepter-strokers would suddenly be front page news? (Besides everyone who has read the Republic).

This makes Leo Strauss's ascension from prissy backwater classicist to Annihilator of Iraq look like child's play.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:56 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Some of us struggle without resorting to naked displays of racial hatred and homophobia. Let them turn their fucking cheeks for once.

I'm not sure hating and othering people for their ideology and beliefs, political party, or cultural "tribe" is actually better than hating and othering them for their race or sexual orientation, though. I mean, historically there have been a lot of wars and a lot of oppression on those grounds as well. "But they do evil and disgusting things!" Well, that's something that people almost always say about "the other." I believe racism and homophobia are indeed evil and disgusting, but that doesn't make me different from any member of any faction of any cultural conflict in history, or make the conflict any less likely to end in violence or injustice.

The only thing that makes our current culture wars more likely to come to some kind of peaceful and just conclusion is if we can retain our ability to see each other as human beings, who need to be convinced rather than punished for our errors.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:00 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


went to Wikipedia to see if Roger Stone was officially working for the Trump campaign, came back with this gem:

in 2007 he had Richard Nixon's face tattooed on his back.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:50 PM on August 23 [+] [!]


[4real?]
posted by Golem XIV at 2:04 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]



I'm not sure hating and othering people for their ideology and belief


Othering people for their racism isn't allowed? That's an odd reclamation of that word.

Please consider that there are PoC contributing here, who have always been told to love and understand those who hate them.
posted by zutalors! at 2:06 PM on August 23, 2016 [47 favorites]


in 2007 he had Richard Nixon's face tattooed on his back.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:50 PM on August 23 [+] [!]


by Henry Rollins while simultaneously off-roading in a jeep
posted by Existential Dread at 2:08 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Mod note: We've been around the block a bunch of times with the general tolerance-of-political-opponents thing, with the same arguments being made on both sides -- it's a whole discussion unto itself, and given the length of these threads, probably better not to roll the election thread down that side-rail.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:09 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


From the AP:
BREAKING: AP analysis: More than half those who met Clinton as Cabinet secretary gave money to Clinton Foundation.
I know I can be a bit of a stick in the mud about this Foundation stuff compared to other Mefites, but - with the caveats that (a) the appearance of impropriety is not the same thing as impropriety; and (b) I highly suspect a lot of the pushing about these meetings came from the Doug Band / Bill Clinton side of things - this stinks and I'm super unhappy with the lack of ethical sticklerism on display here. I get that Bill Clinton was in a unique position when leaving office, in that he was a former President with a life partner who continued to hold high elected and then appointed office...I just wish he had found a way to pursue post-Presidency charitable endeavors that did not overlap with the work Hillary Clinton was doing.

The appearance of impropriety - without the kind of "pay for play" BS Donald is making up - is harmful on its own because it degrades belief in the fairness of government, especially in positions like Secretary of State where the official makes decisions like granting or denying permits, aid, etc. And the appearance of impropriety is still present even where no one can reasonably think the Clintons were personally profiting from the Foundation.

To me, it's still wrong even if the Clintons' thought process was "Well, the Foundation does great work and if people want to contribute because they stupidly think they can buy Hillary's time or influence her, let them; that doesn't mean she will actually do what they want." The fact that officials in other countries or individuals with a lot of money still thought giving to the Foundation could buy them proximity or influence is still harmful, on its own.
posted by sallybrown at 2:11 PM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


The Dark Enlightenment and the Alt-Right are different tendencies. The Alt-Right is fascism for internet-savvy millennials, whereas the Dark Enlightenment is a weird blend of anarcho-capitalism and monarchism. They've got a lot in common, but there's a bunch of differences.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:11 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Roger Stone's book: The Clintons' War on Women, is co-authored with Rob Morrow.

I checked. It's not the same guy from Northern Exposure.
(Janine Turner, however...)
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:11 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


"You have to decide whether or not you want to be part of the bigotry that is Donald Trump. You have to decide whether you want to be part of the sexism and misogyny that is Donald Trump."

NYT columnist Charles Blow to a Trump delegate on CNN
posted by salix at 2:12 PM on August 23, 2016 [35 favorites]


Breitbart is not a conservative site. It's a r̶a̶d̶i̶c̶a̶l̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶c̶t̶i̶o̶n̶a̶r̶y̶ racist website.

"There is no "alt-right." It's just rebranded racism. It's like calling slaves "agrarian interns." No."

- Mitt Romney's top strategist Stuart Stevens.
posted by chris24 at 2:13 PM on August 23, 2016 [66 favorites]


This 2008 profile of Roger Stone has this great quote:

“Roger is a stone-cold loser,” Trump told me. “He always tries taking credit for things he never did.”

posted by My Dad at 2:15 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


NYT columnist Charles Blow to a Trump delegate on CNN

Oh, damn son.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:22 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


that is a sick burn from a Romney staffer
I didn't know they had it in them
posted by angrycat at 2:25 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


I'm on a Clinton Grassroots Donor call. Anyone else?
posted by peacheater at 2:25 PM on August 23, 2016


And the appearance of impropriety is still present even where no one can reasonably think the Clintons were personally profiting from the Foundation.

I just had an interaction with some nutter on FB about the foundation and Clinton's work on the uranium company deal. Politifact's refutation doesn't interest him, and he had handwavey media smokescreen stuff about how, somehow, this is a huge deal but Trump's associations with Russia are a big nothing. He was on about the CF paying a salary to Chelsea Clinton, so apparently that's how some of them rationalize a charity being to the Clintons' direct benefit.

I guess my tl;dr here is that reasonably doesn't seem to often enter into it.
posted by phearlez at 2:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


The fact that officials in other countries or individuals with a lot of money still thought giving to the Foundation could buy them proximity or influence is still harmful, on its own.
I'm afraid that I'm inclined to agree with people who think it's a shame that the media is trying to get the Clintons to shut down the foundation. The foundation has improved the lives of millions of people and receives a top-notch rating from charity watchdogs. So long as Hillary didn't actually engage in pay-for-play, I don't actually care if people thought that donating would get them favors. I'm a bit less enthusiastic about Huma Abedin's simultaneous involvement in about 93434 Clinton activities. If she's gonna be Clinton's Chief of Staff, she needs to just be that. Nothing else.
posted by xyzzy at 2:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Yglesias with some thoughts on that AP story.

I care less about the optics but I understand why they bother some people.
posted by dismas at 2:29 PM on August 23, 2016


(Janine Turner, however...)

Yeah, she's been a staunch Republican for years.
posted by zarq at 2:30 PM on August 23, 2016


I mean I'm not sure how we can avoid other people thinking that making donations to the Clinton Foundation will give them access. Honestly, that's how it works in much of the world, and in much of the US too I'm sure, so it's not surprising.

I'm not sure what you would have liked to have been done differently? Should Bill Clinton not have started a Foundation after his terms as President? That would have been a shame, as the Foundation has done a lot of good. Should Clinton not have run for President because her husband has this Foundation? That seems unfair since women who run for big positions like this are also likely to have spouses with a lot of power, given the way the world works. As long as nothing corrupt actually happened (and I'm actually really impressed with the way they handled all those requests - I will bet whatever you want that there are many much more respected organizations out there with much shadier behavior), why should we discount the real good the Foundation is doing? Should we allow the possible appearance of impropriety outweigh all that?
posted by peacheater at 2:32 PM on August 23, 2016 [25 favorites]


The fact that officials in other countries or individuals with a lot of money still thought giving to the Foundation could buy them proximity or influence is still harmful, on its own.

How?

There's a flaw with the AP analysis - just because someone donated to the Clinton Foundation doesn't mean that they didn't have legitimate business with the Secretary of State. Show me that people who didn't have a reason for access got it, and then I'll acknowledge there a problem. Until then, I don't see the issue.

And before you say "but the appearance", allow me to reiterate that I don't care. Why is it of such concern that idiots in power elsewhere think that they can buy access, especially in light of the evidence that they can't? Frankly, the "good government" movement's focus on appearance over actually understanding how the systems work has led to them pushing harmful policies, like ending earmarks and supporting jungle "primaries".
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:34 PM on August 23, 2016 [20 favorites]


Interesting tidbits from the call:
Tomorrow is going to be declared National Volunteer Day: they're hoping to recruit 50000 volunteers in one day. Tell all your friends.
There's also going to be more policy announced regarding Hillary's Public Health policies tomorrow, particularly how she plans to deal with epidemics like zika.
posted by peacheater at 2:34 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Was she actually on the Grassroots Donor call? I started a minute late and it took me a couple of minutes to connect.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:43 PM on August 23, 2016


Being "maker of decisions" and "accepter of donations" at the same time is not a good position to put yourself in, no matter how morally upright you are. Even if you would never let the donations influence your decisions on a conscious level, it could build in a subconscious bias in favor of people who have supported your cause. Or it give people who have a lot of money a path to developing a (genuine) relationship with you that people who don't have money don't have, so that your social perspectives will end up being skewed toward people with money.

I think the Clinton Foundation has done a lot of good, and I think the State Department agreed to the disclosure agreements that were made to avoid improprieties while Hillary served as Secretary, so she was making a good faith effort at avoiding conflicts of interest (though I understand there were some donations they didn't properly report, presumably through error.)

But I do think all the Clintons need to step away from any day to day involvement with the Clinton Foundation if Hillary is elected president. Because being "maker of decisions" and "accepter of donations" at the same time is not a good position to put yourself in.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:46 PM on August 23, 2016 [12 favorites]




What doesn't translate for me here, having read the AP article, is any sign of pay to play, as Pence is asserting now. The Clinton Foundation is a private entity that pursued many of the human rights and social justice objectives that the Obama administration shared. That the Foundation has an international focus and international objectives is also one of the things that makes Clinton much more well known, well respected, and experienced in the international arena than just about anyone. And it figures that the same people who contributed to the Foundation were also people that Clinton would be talking to as Secretary. They shared common objectives and the field of these people isn't that huge.

But to date there is no sign that being a Clinton Foundation donor translated into influence in U.S. foreign affairs, enhanced access to Secretary Clinton, or really anything else in "play." Nor is there any sign that Clinton used her position to encourage support for the Foundation.

Would anyone be really troubled if Bill or Melinda Gates took a position dealing with international health issues in an administration and ended up talking to some of the same folks that contribute to the Gates Foundation, which has done a lot to improve international health? I mean, this is what happens when people who are working through NGOs or big charities move into government -- they keep knowing the same people they knew before and pursuing the same objectives.

This is like the paid private sector speeches HRC gave. (Which are dwarfed in scale and compensation by those DJT gave.) There's a lot of handwaving but I don't actually see any evidence of anything improper.

This is also like getting upset because John Roberts was a Supreme Court litigator before he joined the Court and now familiar faces argue before him and former clients have interests in the outcome of the cases that come before the court. We do tend to select people with expertise in the area of government where they serve, and they not uncommonly get that from private sector experience. Unless there is pay for play or quid pro quo, it is not bad that people aren't strangers to the milieu in the public sector job they take.
posted by bearwife at 2:51 PM on August 23, 2016 [26 favorites]


So now Trump is composing angry Tweets about "God."

[fake]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:53 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


Super duper funny tho!
[fake]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:54 PM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


They've got the style down though.
posted by Artw at 2:54 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


But I do think all the Clintons need to step away from any day to day involvement with the Clinton Foundation if Hillary is elected president.

That said, Trump's businesses give him a lot more opportunities for conflicts of interest than Clinton would have. And asked about conflicts of interest, this is what he says:
I would put it in a blind trust. Well, I don't know if it's a blind trust if Ivanka, Don and Eric run it. But — is that a blind trust? I don't know. But I would probably have my children run it with my executives. And I wouldn't ever be involved, because I wouldn't care about anything but our country. Anything."
(No, Donald, that's not a blind trust.)

So... You know, my concerns about the Clinton Foundation, while real, are not really a big deal at all in comparison.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:55 PM on August 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


Would anyone be really troubled if Bill or Melinda Gates took a position dealing with international health issues in an administration and ended up talking to some of the same folks that contribute to the Gates Foundation, which has done a lot to improve international health? I mean, this is what happens when people who are working through NGOs or big charities move into government -- they keep knowing the same people they knew before and pursuing the same objectives.

Yes, I would have a problem if the position in the administration involved potentially making decisions involving those donors. Much like I would have a problem if a case Roberts worked on in his past as a private litigator reached the Supreme Court and he didn't recuse himself. (I note here that ethical regulations are far more lax for the Justices than they are for many federal employees, and there have been repeated attempts to change that that haven't gone anywhere.)
posted by sallybrown at 2:55 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I guess conflicts of interest and fraudulent behaviour of all kinds are just a given from him, so nobody really cares. Yet another benefit of extremely low expectations.
posted by Artw at 2:56 PM on August 23, 2016 [27 favorites]


So now Trump is composing angry Tweets about "God."

I mean... you knew that was satirical, right?
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:57 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


That said, Trump's businesses give him a lot more opportunities for conflicts of interest than Clinton would have.

This has been a successful argument for me when dealing with potential voters who don't want to vote Clinton because of the Foundation, FWIW. Trump has his actual personal businesses mixed up here.
posted by sallybrown at 2:57 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]




Yes, the orange fuehrer is very corrupt and is also a fraudster and con man. He's not my ruler for measuring ethical behavior. He's not even in the same football field vicinity as HRC.

But, on its own, the AP article really doesn't raise any concerns for me with the Clinton Foundation already planning to change its practices to avoid potential conflict when HRC is elected.
posted by bearwife at 2:59 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Everyone gave money to the Clinton Foundation. So when you start looking at the list of people who Clinton met with there is bound to be an overlap.
posted by humanfont at 3:00 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


"Hillary Clinton, Justin Timberlake and Jessica Biel walk into a photo booth..."

That second picture clearly shows her having a seizure.
[fake, obviously]
posted by PlusDistance at 3:01 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Oh god. Team Clinton, I beg of you: please keep yr boss separated from celebrities by at least 1000 feet at all times.
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:02 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Much like I would have a problem if a case Roberts worked on in his past as a private litigator reached the Supreme Court and he didn't recuse himself

That would be a conflict in most lawyers' and judges' books. Ruling on your own former case is a no no. But it is not the same as knowing the same players you knew in private practice. It just isn't.
posted by bearwife at 3:03 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


>So now Trump is composing angry Tweets about "God."

I mean... you knew that was satirical, right?


It was not immediately apparent those were fabricated Tweets. Sad!
posted by My Dad at 3:04 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


Think of it in Cincinnati terms, not sexual terms. Clinton is the chili, because without her there'd just be a pile of disappointment instead of a cohesive whole. Johnson and Stein are the onions and beans, because they disagree violently over what the fourth topping on a four-way should be and as a result neither of them is willing to buckle down to the responsibility of being the spaghetti. Trump is arsenic-laced cream cheese, inasmuch as it vaguely resembles something that's supposed to be there but is completely wrong and turns out to be even worse than it looks.

The whole mess is neither good nor chili*. The "appetizers" are oyster crackers onto which a drop of Tabasco sauce has been placed, there are VERY STRONG opinions about the "right" way to eat the thing, and the natives are inexplicably proud of their creation and will force it upon any and all visitors.

I don't know if that is actually a metaphor or just a rant about the chili that my co-workers make me eat every time I come to Cincinnati. Maybe it's both.

The secret ingredients are CHOCOLATE and CINNAMON! Really!
posted by VTX at 3:07 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Everyone gave money to the Clinton Foundation. So when you start looking at the list of people who Clinton met with there is bound to be an overlap.

Yeah, it would be good to also see "what percentage of CF donors met with Clinton". Its not surprising that "percentage of those who met with Clinton and donated to CF" is high, if you assume "met with Secretary of State" implies "probably has a lot of money".

I mean, I donated to the Clinton Foundation and never got my "Influence 1 Policy" gift certificate. Or maybe I missed it, probably expired by now sadly.
posted by thefoxgod at 3:08 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Now, for clear self dealing, we have the rent Trump is charging his campaign. Lots of campaign cash is flowing into his personal coffers, and that is just straight up corrupt.
posted by bearwife at 3:09 PM on August 23, 2016 [21 favorites]


And the appearance of impropriety is still present even where no one can reasonably think the Clintons were personally profiting from the Foundation.

It should be noted that the only reason you even have the ability to speculate is that the Clinton Foundation has been completely transparent in voluntarily disclosing to the public everyone who has donated to the foundation. As a standard 501(c)(3) charity, there is no requirement to disclose donors and most charities do not unless there big publicity agreement with the donor.

You would think that if the Clintons thought something shady were going on, they would simply conceal their donors. Instead they have been completely transparent and then their political opponents use that transparency against them.

And the same transparency is behind the emails thing. No previous administration government official, no cabinet member, no President or vice-President has turned over all of their work emails to the archives as required by law except for Clinton. No cabinet member or administration official has ever had all of the email turned over to the public for perusal.

Colin Powell never turned over his personal email and other communications as required by law. Dozens of other Bush administration officials also failed to archive their personal email accounts as required by law. Only Clinton has done so and then her compliance with the law and transparency has been used against her for wild speculation. Funny how that works.
posted by JackFlash at 3:12 PM on August 23, 2016 [136 favorites]




Because being "maker of decisions" and "accepter of donations" at the same time is not a good position to put yourself in.

So I assume you would be in favor of throwing out the President, every member of Congress, governors, state legislators, mayors and city councilmen. The quid pro quo is certainly much more blatant than making contributions to a charity organization once removed.
posted by JackFlash at 3:21 PM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


Lots of campaign cash is flowing into his personal coffers, and that is just straight up corrupt.

Yeaup. Which is why its the top story on all the . . . oh, wait.
posted by petebest at 3:25 PM on August 23, 2016 [19 favorites]


Because being "maker of decisions" and "accepter of donations" at the same time is not a good position to put yourself in.

I might also note that if you have contributed to the Clinton campaign, it seems that you are also complicit in the conspiracy, seeking policies from Clinton in your personal interest.
posted by JackFlash at 3:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Was she actually on the Grassroots Donor call? I started a minute late and it took me a couple of minutes to connect.
She was for a few minutes at the beginning.
posted by peacheater at 3:27 PM on August 23, 2016


> "In case you thought Trump mouthpiece Roger Stone couldn't go lower."

That is not a thought I am ever likely to have.
posted by kyrademon at 3:30 PM on August 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


Trump unveils plan to literally "Lock Her Up"

He plans to appoint a special prosecutor after he is elected to prosecute Hillary for using a private email server.

It is not a prosecutable crime, presidents don't have the power to appoint special prosecutors, and Trump is not going to be elected in the first place (Cthulhu willing), but logic and reality haven't stopped Trump yet.
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 3:35 PM on August 23, 2016 [34 favorites]


Trump unveils plan to literally "Lock Her Up"

So I guess his debate strategy is going to be to attempt a citizen's arrest on the spot?
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:40 PM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


So I assume you would be in favor of throwing out the President, every member of Congress, governors, state legislators, mayors and city councilmen. The quid pro quo is certainly much more blatant than making contributions to a charity organization once removed.

I didn't say I was in favor of throwing out Hillary Clinton! I said I thought she and her family should step back from day to day operations of the Clinton Foundation.

But yes, it did occur to me after posting that literally every political campaign is an accepter of donations, so we have unfortunately put all our politicians in this difficult position. I do indeed wish that could be avoided, but it's not really possible for politicians to step back from the day to day operations of their own campaigns.

(Although... it would be fun to have a buddy system, where you campaign for your buddy and they campaign for you, and neither of you knows who donated the money that you actually get to spend. Like "Trading Spaces" except for elections. That would probably work about as well as the "must not coordinate with Super PACs" rule though.)

Um. Anyway. There is one significant difference, still, between campaign contributions and the contributions of concern with regard to the Clinton Foundation. Campaigns are not allowed to accept money from foreign donors, but the Clinton Foundation can and does. That raises the stakes a bit on potential conflicts of interest. But I think it will be okay as long as Clinton recuses herself.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:43 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


So I guess his debate strategy is going to be to attempt a citizen's arrest on the spot?

I actually think this is possibly something that might happen
posted by thelonius at 3:48 PM on August 23, 2016 [13 favorites]


Psst. You guys...
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:49 PM on August 23, 2016 [29 favorites]


If any of you guys haven't listened to the latest episode of the With Her podcast, I very highly recommend it. Tim Kaine is adorable, and I am officially stoked for four years of America's Dad.
posted by Itaxpica at 3:52 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Via Sopan Deb -
Trump is right now polling the crowd at the Hannity taping on mass deportations.
Who do you think his Phone-a-Friend is? Should we call this game "Who Wants to Be an Actual Billionaire"?
posted by sallybrown at 3:53 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


But I think it will be okay as long as Clinton recuses herself.
From any leadership role at the Clinton Foundation, not from the presidency.

posted by OnceUponATime at 3:59 PM on August 23, 2016


Tim Kaine is adorable, and I am officially stoked for four eight years of America's Dad.
posted by tzikeh at 4:01 PM on August 23, 2016 [21 favorites]


I for one am horrified at the thought of all the people who may have gotten HIV medicine because of the Clintons' lax attitude towards the appearance of impropriety
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:05 PM on August 23, 2016 [56 favorites]


Atom Eyes: Psst. You guys...

Oh, God... How many more do they actually have to go?
posted by tzikeh at 4:09 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


They see themselves increasingly left out of American culture and see double standards employed to keep it that way. They don't understand how to speak anymore in a way that won't have them called out for racism, sexism, or other sorts of bigotry, while at the same time they see people within different minority groups able to say things they can't without being taken to task for it.

These guys, I think, have a feeling they are becoming irrelevant, being left behind as they don't know how to adapt to the changes going on. The thing is, they're right in that, they are being left behind as the culture is no longer a white man's sanctuary.


This pretty accurately describes the Trump voters I encountered when visiting family. Though I'd argue it's not that the culture isn't a white sanctuary anymore, but more that the culture is no longer "white plus assimilated white". Because I see a lot of this stuff coming not just from actual white guys, but also from guys who were assimilating and joining the table - light-skinned Hispanic men who adapted to the culture, especially. People who had to learn a foreign culture, learned it very well, and now after they assimilated, are being asked by people who aren't at the power table to adapt, because the power table is going away entirely.

People like my dad exist in pockets where most of the people they see and talk to are the same as themselves. They watch shows from at most recent, the nineties, and they don't understand or even know why or how the world has changed - why all of a sudden, every part of their speech is replete with things that are terrible.

They see people being fired or castigated for saying things that they can imagine themselves saying, things they don't understand why are wrong - things that seem "clumsy" but not verboten. And it makes them empathize with those people and worry that any day, they're going to be on the hot seat. And the thing is, they're not wrong. Because in places where the culture has rapidly shifted, it's hard to even imagine how much other places haven't.

Like, an actual (hopefully noncontroversial) case in point - my dad told me, in casual conversation, that he recommended a science fiction series to a coworker. To him, no big deal. But that science fiction series is one with horrific representation and horrific portrayals of women. Like, to me, with the culture I'm entrenched in, recommending that series is essentially like recommending some terrible niche porn to a coworker and 100% Not To Be Done At Work. And he just dropped that conversational turd there and I wanted to say something. But then I was hit with the enormous undertaking that lay before me if I wanted him to stop it. I would have had had to explain -

1) Even if you enjoy seeing women treated that way, this is no longer considered culturally okay to read and like and talk about.
2) Even if it were not terrible, you don't talk about sex at work in the same way anymore
3) You can get fired for sexual harassment, even if you're not actually trying to have sex with someone, for shit like that
4) NO JOHN RINGO NO

And then if I had explained all those, without explaining the things behind all of them, all my dad would take from it was "It's not okay to talk about the books you like at work in this CRAZY PC CULTURE of the LIBERALS."

It's not just as simple as "don't say that word", which I think people can actually get behind pretty easily. You actually have to understand context, and I think that's a lot, lot harder if you're not being exposed to it. It's still hard and frustrating for some people who are exposed to it, but at least it's possible. For guys like my dad, this stuff is dropping out of the clear blue sky and striking at complete random.

And I asked him - why are you voting for Trump? He says crazy things! And he said essentially that it's nice to see someone just saying what he thinks and not being afraid to say it, even if it's wrong or terrible.

And then I drank myself to death. And now I'm just a ghost posting on Metafilter.
posted by corb at 4:10 PM on August 23, 2016 [211 favorites]


> Oh, God... How many more do they actually have to go?

Six, plus this one. (You can do it, Tehhund! though you may not want to; nobody would blame you)
posted by Spathe Cadet at 4:13 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


And now I'm just a ghost posting on Metafilter.

A ghost script. A drunk ghost script.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:15 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


I can't decide whether my feeling that News/Campaign People Are Reading These Threads is based in reality or Trump-influenced narcissism on my part.
posted by sallybrown at 4:16 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


She was for a few minutes at the beginning.
Noooo!!!

posted by kirkaracha at 4:17 PM on August 23, 2016


I can't decide whether my feeling that News/Campaign People Are Reading These Threads is based in reality or Trump-influenced narcissism on my part.

Obvious jokes are obvious, is all.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:21 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


/momentary sense of confusion as I scroll through Recent Activiyy and thibk I have skipped on to the Hugo thread.

Er, was it really John Ringo? Because even in the 90s that would be some weird bullshit to bring up at work.
posted by Artw at 4:25 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


A drunk ghost script.

Ghostscript can indeed be kind of a pain to install.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [15 favorites]


After what happened in 2000, you'd think that Florida of all states would at least have a paper backup of its voting machine results, but NOPE.

That's WHY some places have voting machines. They don't care about accuracy of people's votes, they just don't want weeks of uncertainty again. It's expensive to count votes by hand.
posted by threeturtles at 4:27 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Context, for those who didn't hang out on LJ a LOT about a decade ago:

OH JOHN RINGO NO
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:27 PM on August 23, 2016 [35 favorites]


More from Sopan Deb on the in-person push poll on undocumented immigrants Trump administered tonight on Hannity.

Truthfully, I can't feel negatively about any candidate (even Cheeto Hitler) moving from "kick em out" to a path to citizenship on this issue.
posted by sallybrown at 4:28 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Context

Oh, that guy. Eeesh
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:32 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I can't decide whether my feeling that News/Campaign People Are Reading These Threads is based in reality or Trump-influenced narcissism on my part

Just in case Trump's people are reading these threads, I want to say "Hi!" and sincerely encourage you to get Donald to hold a really huge political rally in this great, small American town! 'Cause it's the absolute perfect setting for Mr. Trump to deliver his message from.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:33 PM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


Er, was it really John Ringo? Because even in the 90s that would be some weird bullshit to bring up at work.

I haven't read any of his work, but I get the impression that John Ringo's stuff actually fills a continuum between conservative-but-not-squicky mil-SF and, well, Paladin of Shadows. So there are Ringo suggestions which aren't conspicuously inappropriate.
posted by jackbishop at 4:34 PM on August 23, 2016


Truthfully, I can't feel negatively about any candidate (even Cheeto Hitler) moving from "kick em out" to a path to citizenship on this issue.

I can and do.
This is not being done in good faith by Trump, and the damage already done by his many months of ultra-racist rhetoric is irreversible.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:36 PM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


Trump Live in Austin

(I think there's an hour to go, but it's streaming now)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:38 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Is there some chance that Texas is gonna go blue? Because it's basically political malpractice for a Republican to campaign there if not.
posted by xyzzy at 4:40 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Here I thought it was going to be the Gor books.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:45 PM on August 23, 2016 [24 favorites]


Horace Rumpole is in fact correct; they just don't have a handy 'GAH WHY' like Ringo does, which I have appropriated for all of its type.
posted by corb at 4:48 PM on August 23, 2016 [32 favorites]


Trump is up by ~6 in Texas, but there's a huge Hispanic GOTV effort.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:49 PM on August 23, 2016


So we are going to have a speech all about Prosecuting Hillary. Terrific. It's a kind of weird torture/punishment porn at this point. I know there are people in the Trump crowds getting off on the idea of bringing this powerful woman down to size by making her wear an orange jumpsuit.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:50 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]



Horace Rumpole is in fact correct

OH CORB'S DAD NO
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:51 PM on August 23, 2016 [62 favorites]


Truthfully, I can't feel negatively about any candidate (even Cheeto Hitler) moving from "kick em out" to a path to citizenship on this issue.

>>I can and do.
This is not being done in good faith by Trump, and the damage already done by his many months of ultra-racist rhetoric is irreversible.


Agreed. I can't get past feeling that his initial impulses are how he really feels. Kicking out non-citizens, punishing women who get abortions, threatening to throw his opponent in jail and/or have her assassinated -- it's just too far from sane for anyone to trust that what he's saying now is tempered with any real sincerity.
posted by mochapickle at 4:51 PM on August 23, 2016


Trump Live in Austin

The woman singing the star spangled banner just did something very much like the heil hitler salute mid-song. [real]
posted by mochapickle at 4:53 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Meanwhile, Scotland's masterly Trump trolling hits new highs...
posted by Devonian at 4:53 PM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


Exhibit A :"Bill" and "Hillary" before Trump rally in Austin, Texas (OK not technically an orange jumpsuit, but still..)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:54 PM on August 23, 2016


The woman singing the star spangled banner just did the heil hitler salute mid-song.

The attempts to chant "USA USA USA" are very odd.
posted by My Dad at 4:56 PM on August 23, 2016


The woman singing the star spangled banner just something very much like the heil hitler salute mid-song.

Restless Nazi Arm Syndrome is real y'all, don't make fun.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:57 PM on August 23, 2016 [48 favorites]


Horace Rumpole is in fact correct

OH CORB'S DAD NO


Oh dear god. Is it time to bring out the link to HousePlants of Gor?
posted by suelac at 4:59 PM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


> conservative-but-not-squicky mil-SF

Even his not-squicky mil-SF is pretty squicky. Resurrecting dead Nazi's to fight aliens?

His actually not-squicky just-conservative stuff is just absolutely terribs.

/guiltily enjoyed some of his Posleen stuff, but had to stop because it left me feeling too greasy
posted by porpoise at 5:00 PM on August 23, 2016


That Hannity push poll... Does that mean Melania really is having legal issues?
posted by maryr at 5:00 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


As most of you know, there is some controversy over John Norman's Chronicles of Gor series, but is it deserved?

Okay, that's probably not a good sign, but you never know about these

The most common accusation we hear is that John Norman is a misogynist who advocates the subjugation, enslavement of women

Okay! Well, that. Is. A thing. Apparently.

Don't even on the John Ringo thing.
posted by petebest at 5:03 PM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


I haven't read the Gor books, but I always had the sense you could just skim over the weird sexual politics stuff if it bored you and get back to ersatz Conan? Like when I read one or two of the Aubrey/Maturin books and kept collapsing several pages into "They fucked around with the sails to try to go faster."?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:08 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


IIRC, it would be more like trying to read Aubrey/Maturin and skip the sailing stuff altogether.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:11 PM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Like when I read one or two of the Aubrey/Maturin books and kept collapsing several pages into "They fucked around with the sails to try to go faster."?

Yeah, but with actual fucking.

I have not read these books, I am just making a stupid joke, maybe there isn't actual fucking, maybe it's just clean, innocent enslavement of women.
posted by maryr at 5:12 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Is there some chance that Texas is gonna go blue? Because it's basically political malpractice for a Republican to campaign there if not.

Yes. But I didn't think Trump was smart enough to notice it even if Clinton has actually talked about it. Basically the plan is is that hispanic voters prefer Clinton by the same margin white voters prefer Trump in Texas. And black voters go overwhelmingly for Clinton. In Texas hispanic population + black population > white population. Unfortunately voter turnout is about 66% for both the black and white populations - but just under 50% for the hispanic population.

Which means if Clinton can pull of an amazing GOTV operation she can win Texas (turning a non-voter into a voter is quite spectacularly hard, and no reputable pollster is going to think she can manage). With any candidate before Obama I'd have called it a pipedream. But combine the OFA data driven campaign with Clinton's organisational skills and detail focus and ... it's possible. Not likely (like I said, getting turnout up is amazingly hard) - but enough of a possibility that campaigning in Texas isn't as silly as you might think.
posted by Francis at 5:13 PM on August 23, 2016 [16 favorites]


"What the hell do we have to lose?" Is a rally cry. [real]

Not Trump, someone else speaking.

That's catchy! Gimme a bouncy C!
posted by petebest at 5:14 PM on August 23, 2016


I believe it was Michael Moorcock who suggested placing Gor books on the highest possible shelf at the bookstore. He didn't advocate censoring the books but did advocate marginalizing books that suggested women enjoyed abuse.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:14 PM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


Speaking now: Pastor Mark Burns, who did the opening benediction at the RNC (referring to Trump a man who believes in Jesus). Leading chant for Lock Her Up.

Also referred to Hillary as "that woman."
posted by mochapickle at 5:19 PM on August 23, 2016


Like when I read one or two of the Aubrey/Maturin books

It takes a while (about three books) but eventually one is able to interpret all the talk about rigging. The Aubreyad is a lovely, magnificent, stupendous cultural achievement and should not be mentioned in this thread ANYMORE.
posted by My Dad at 5:19 PM on August 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


Now there's a very shouty man on. I'd like to personally thank the sound engineer who switched on the limiter.

"Lock her up" again which has taken on a bit of additional context in this thread.

Also a rip roaring "We are not stupid!", followed by USA! USA! USA!

I'm pretty sure this was like season 3 Simpsons.
posted by petebest at 5:20 PM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


Huh, no, this is now the weirdest derail.
posted by Tevin at 5:20 PM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]




Mark Burns, tapping his bare wrist: "Not on my watch!"
posted by mochapickle at 5:22 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


So I'm trying to read the "About Us" Page of the gor site and whatever and I swear that it is the exact same kind of fascinating & horrifying fluffernutter that is listening to some people's defence of Trump.

There's this guy trying to defend John Norman and like, the quotes he picks out are just so incriminating and awful. He tries to say that Norman is not a misogynist and then in defence of the next point pulls out a quote where Norman compares women to animals and small children. And it's like.....bro.

It's just, this has been such an unrelenting force of chaos and awful that reading about Gor has been an almost pleasant oasis.

Also, Houseplants of Gor was not linked up above and I really think it should be. Because it had me nearly rolling on the floor laughing. I think it's important to take care of yourself during these times. Break eye contact with the abyss for at least a little bit, for your mental health.
posted by Neronomius at 5:22 PM on August 23, 2016 [12 favorites]


a rip roaring "We are not stupid!", followed by USA! USA! USA!


mhm
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:22 PM on August 23, 2016


But combine the OFA data driven campaign with Clinton's organisational skills and detail focus and ... it's possible. Not likely (like I said, getting turnout up is amazingly hard) - but enough of a possibility that campaigning in Texas isn't as silly as you might think.

Plus, if the campaign feels they have 270+ EVs in the bag, spending GOTV effort in states they might not win still might pay dividends downticket.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 5:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


I'm pretty sure this was like season 3 Simpsons.

Season 16, Episode 15.
posted by Talez at 5:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Burns still talking. Mentions schools are sending opt out forms for saying the pledge of allegiance. Crowd boos and boos and boos, then recites the pledge, appending it with USA USA USA.
posted by mochapickle at 5:26 PM on August 23, 2016


I'm pretty sure the young Austin men behind him are high. Bless their hearts.

Wow Iranians are gonna kidnap us and we remember 9/11 - in the same . . . sentence? I guess?

I seriously think he's gonna start firing in the air.

Again, Simpsons season 3.
posted by petebest at 5:27 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


If you see them reach for the Doritos in about 15 minutes, we'll call it QED.
posted by petebest at 5:31 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


they have to be faking.

I think you meant baking.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:32 PM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


They are a delight to watch! Burns just told everyone to tell their neighbors they love them and there were awkward giggles and half-embraces.
posted by mochapickle at 5:32 PM on August 23, 2016


There's a special place in hell for Mark Burns. Someone that purports to be a man of good, taking people for a ride on his prosperity gospel bullshit for his own personal gain, and sells out his own people. He distorts the word and actions of Christ.

Fuck him. He's an evil, evil man.
posted by Talez at 5:36 PM on August 23, 2016 [16 favorites]


I like to think they were just checking MetaFilter there
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:36 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


From my lengthy experience on phish tour back in the day, I consider myself highly qualified to pronounce those two young men HIGH AS SHIT.

That's also more people of color than I have ever seen at a Trump rally before. Like, combined.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:37 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Plus, if the campaign feels they have 270+ EVs in the bag, spending GOTV effort in states they might not win still might pay dividends downticket.

Not just downticket. Everyone who's paying attention knows that Texas' demographics are shifting - I believe the estimate is that Texas is supposed to come into play in 2024. If Hillary can swing it or even make it a nailbiter eight years early it's going to make a huge difference to the next few elections because voting is a habit. Winning Texas isn't a victory lap. It's playing to make the 2020 Presidential election almost impossible for the Republicans if they have to fight tooth and nail in Texas and to ensure that they have to be a very different party to even compete in 2024. (And if they can win the state race they can of course win downticket as well).
posted by Francis at 5:38 PM on August 23, 2016 [25 favorites]


I thought the one guy let out a gnarly fart, but he was just getting his cellphone. And yeah there's no doubt they're watching themselves on the livestream.

Its like, which one of us is the real one?! I mean, y'know.
posted by petebest at 5:39 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I have a bunch of friends in Austin and I'll note that I've seen pictures posted by three of them on Facebook that suggest they've gotten dressed up in the most ludicrous faux-patriotic costumes possible to go to the Trump rally as if it were a sort of cos-play event. Thus, I wonder if a certain number of the rest of the people you're seeing are there ironically.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:39 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Although, if I were to write fanfiction, it'd prolly be about the two dudebros in the matching Iron Trump tees.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:40 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Sid Miller is batshit fucking insane.
posted by Talez at 5:41 PM on August 23, 2016


Moon law isn't going over so well.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:42 PM on August 23, 2016


I half expect this guy to forget himself and blurt out "Donald J. Trump is going to put them n-----s back in their place!"
posted by Talez at 5:42 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Donald Trump understands a lot of things, we're told.

The High Brothers are just having their own conversation now.
posted by petebest at 5:43 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]



I have a bunch of friends in Austin and I'll note that I've seen pictures posted by three of them on Facebook that suggest they've gotten dressed up in the most ludicrous faux-patriotic costumes possible to go to the Trump rally as if it were a sort of cos-play event


Live Action Republican Playing?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:44 PM on August 23, 2016 [12 favorites]


First mention I've heard of phone banking ever at a Trump rally. Granted I don't pay that much attention but still...
posted by Talez at 5:45 PM on August 23, 2016


BWAHAHAA!! They just read/saw something funny and are passing the phone around, laughing. All to the twangy yet slightly wonky speechin'.
posted by petebest at 5:45 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


A little too much on the last "Lock her up", I think they should dial it back or they might not make it through the main event.

This looks to be pretty epic trolling so far.
posted by petebest at 5:48 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


People chanted Trump, then stood, then "Battle Hymn of the Republic" started at the chorus then stopped. Then it started from the beginning. A big Russian-chorale type version. Wow.
posted by petebest at 5:51 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


MINE EYES HAVE SEEN THE GLORY OF THE COMING OF THE LORD [real]
posted by petebest at 5:53 PM on August 23, 2016


And Trump is back to old form and running late.

(The music on that channel is by the streamer. When Trump shows it'll be Ride of the Valkyries.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:55 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


What is even happening.
posted by corb at 5:55 PM on August 23, 2016 [23 favorites]


> People who had to learn a foreign culture, learned it very well, and now after they assimilated, are being asked by people who aren't at the power table to adapt, because the power table is going away entirely.

Just so we're clear, the power table is not going away entirely. It is probably not ever going away entirely, and certainly not in our lifetimes. It's just making room for a few extra people, and even that isn't going down well.
posted by languagehat at 5:55 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


Now Beethoven's Fifth. (Hold music, Don's late again)

DUN DUN DUH DAAAAAHHH
posted by petebest at 5:57 PM on August 23, 2016


mochapickle: Burns still talking. Mentions schools are sending opt out forms for saying the pledge of allegiance. Crowd boos and boos and boos, then recites the pledge, appending it with USA USA USA.
[Liberals] love America just as much as [conservatives] do. But in a different way. You see, [conservatives] love America like a 4-year-old loves his mommy. Liberals love America like grown-ups. To a 4-year-old, everything Mommy does is wonderful and anyone who criticizes Mommy is bad. Grown-up love means actually understanding what you love, taking the good with the bad and helping your loved one grow. -- Al Franken, Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
posted by tzikeh at 5:57 PM on August 23, 2016 [38 favorites]


Do "Stonehenge"!!!
posted by petebest at 5:58 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I got a good feeling about this one. Let it ride dealer! I think this is the one where he accidentally lets fly a expletive or two!
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:59 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


One of the guys to the left is wearing a Muslims Without Borders t-shirt, with a Hillary for Prison bumper sticker slapped across his torso. He's totally cosplaying.
posted by mochapickle at 6:00 PM on August 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


Jeff Sessions?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:01 PM on August 23, 2016


One of the guys to the left is wearing a Muslims Without Borders t-shirt

I was trying to make sense of that.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:03 PM on August 23, 2016


And here we go
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:04 PM on August 23, 2016


I'm watching it with the sound off just for these guys. Is there a hashtag for them yet? #undercoverbrother?
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:04 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I have to stop watching these rallies soon. Every time I watch one I grow ever more despondent for humanity.
posted by Talez at 6:09 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


And what's up with poker face right in front of them?

I'm fascinated by the human backdrop.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:09 PM on August 23, 2016


Muslims Without Borders changed its name to United Muslim Relief. They're an NGO that was founded by students at George Mason University.
posted by xyzzy at 6:10 PM on August 23, 2016


Independence from corrupt politicians and rigged systems and bring jobs back and the media don't care about us, and they don't report on our crowds, and crushing debt. America First!
TrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrump

Meelions and meelions of new jobs. Repeal Obamacare, its a disaster mmmkay, appoint judges, 2nd amendment, veterans will get the right to see a doctor. Eliminate regulations. Unleash energy revolution. Lets talk about crime.
posted by petebest at 6:12 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Doesn't Austin have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the US? The economy has been so good there has been net migration from the rest of the US, notably California? Undocumented migrants also benefit the local economy by helping create cheap housing. Austin has some of the lowest housing prices in the US.
posted by My Dad at 6:14 PM on August 23, 2016


I got a good feeling about this one. Let it ride dealer!

Tonight's the night, isn't it? I feel it too, but I can't watch. It's worse than CSI.
posted by bongo_x at 6:15 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I was just looking at Twitter and... dear Trump Twitter: Attracting 10k people to a Trump rally in Texas is really not that huge of a feat.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:15 PM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Anyone know who the guy just to the left behind Trump is, the one in the suit and tie? He keeps mouthing the words to Trump's speech as if he knows it already. (Or is he just reading a teleprompter?)
posted by mochapickle at 6:15 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I want full dossiers on all of those people, tbh.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:16 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Looks like a protester just got kicked out.
posted by Talez at 6:16 PM on August 23, 2016


Thanking the police. (Pivot!). Praying for families? Law enforcement, We are with you we support you and we will always stand with you WE LOVE YOU.

Appoint a federal official and officials to dismantle gangs, drug dealers, and murderers. And they are everywhere mmmkay.

(Highbros are voguing to the TrumpTrumpTrump)

28.6% to 27.4% metrics percentage has grown 26.2% up too much. 11.7 million, 58.2% (crowd boos or ohhs, can't tell). Young AA are unemployed. Baltimore and the 50 largest US cities. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE IN TRYING TRUMP. I WILL FIX IT.
posted by petebest at 6:19 PM on August 23, 2016


Maddow announcing South Carolina as a battleground state now. Feldman Group (I'm not familiar with them) polled Trump and Clinton even at 39% each.
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:20 PM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


I don't know about unemployment but S someone who lived in Austin in the late 80s and early 90s, when I go back now I cannot believe the number of homeless people in the downtown area.
posted by spitbull at 6:20 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


"Vote for me, what do you have to lose?"
posted by My Dad at 6:20 PM on August 23, 2016


I've never seen white people in Texas care so much about the plight of black people.
posted by Talez at 6:21 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


"What do you have to lose" as a campaign slogan is just... I finally can't even with this guy.
posted by feloniousmonk at 6:21 PM on August 23, 2016 [29 favorites]


Highbros cheering at Build The Wall as if they are playing cash bingo and it's a $100 square.
posted by mochapickle at 6:22 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'm watching little orphan Annie on the POP channel. Daddy Warbucks is a total dick. [Real]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:22 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


I hope those guys out themselves to the media later because Twitter has already glommed on to pictures of Trump with THREE WHOLE BLACK PEOPLE behind him as evidence that Trump rallies are totes diverse and Trumpism is totes inclusive. I will die a happy woman if they contact the nearest media organization in about 2 hours with pictures of themselves and say, "Just so you know, we trolled you all real hard. Have a nice day. #I'mwith her"
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:25 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


"What do you have to lose" as a campaign slogan is just... I finally can't even with this guy.

There's only one person who's ever made "What do you have to lose?" a winning sales pitch, and Donald Trump is no Charles Atlas.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


A lot about people getting shot. Pronounced "shæt"

Border security wall chant, with some random high-pitched shreiking. Mexico will pay. Deficits will go away. We'll be so happy when Mexico does, in fact, pay for the wall.

200,000 illegal, half a billion, 1005, 515,000 and 415, not gonna happen. Hillary wants cats and release (?). And better benefits to illegal immigrants than our veterans get. Sanctuary cities. She wants people to overstay their visas (hello, Melania), we are gonna vote President Donald Trump and we are gonna stop it.

Hillary 550% Obama Trojan horse, terrer, 9/11, Boston bombing, Orlando, but Hillary wants to let everyone come in, its a nightmare just like Europe ask them. We owe 220 trillion but we're not going to pay they can pay they have the money. I'm going to suspend visas the oath of citizenship
posted by petebest at 6:28 PM on August 23, 2016


The YT channel doing the livestreaming has some really weird video "favorites" (that are not available anymore?)

★ Favorite Videos ★
――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――
★ Hillary The Dog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsXsS...
★ The Snake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKJlh...
★ KKK Protester https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v11nc...
★ KKK Vampire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enylM...

posted by My Dad at 6:28 PM on August 23, 2016


I don't have the stomach to look at it but I'm really wondering how long Trump's tie is today.
posted by dilettante at 6:32 PM on August 23, 2016



And he said essentially that it's nice to see someone just saying what he thinks and not being afraid to say it, even if it's wrong or terrible.
...
Horace Rumpole is in fact correct

OH CORB'S DAD NO

Oh dear god. Is it time to bring out the link to HousePlants of Gor?


The Cuckjeeras won't like that.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:33 PM on August 23, 2016


'Here are the white mothers of people killed by those damn brown people.' [basically real]

Softening on immigration. Yep.
posted by chris24 at 6:34 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Mothers who lost their sons to illegal immigration are onstage hugging Trump (?). The Border Patrol are here and they've endorsed me for the first time in history. Incredible people.

Border patrol guy talking, looks like a regular guy in a suit.
posted by petebest at 6:34 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Tie significantly past belt.
posted by mochapickle at 6:36 PM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


Greiving mothers tell about their sons being killed. Vote Trump.
posted by petebest at 6:36 PM on August 23, 2016


Thanks, mochapickle! Once it was pointed out I couldn't stop noticing and wondering if it was ever going to change.
posted by dilettante at 6:38 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Regarding Trump's ground game, I signed up to be an Official Trump Election Observer using the link that someone posted two (?) threads ago. I was able to sign up without donating to the campaign and received an email that said this:

Thank you for volunteering to be a Trump Election Observer! We are going to do everything we are legally allowed to do to stop crooked Hillary from rigging this election. Someone from the campaign will be contacting you soon.
Thank you for helping to Make America Great Again,
Team Trump
Thanks,
Team TRUMP

"Well," I thought, "I will eat my hat if I ever hear from these folks again about anything." They are obviously too half-assed and disorganized to ever follow up on anything. And indeed, many days went by with no contact from their campaign.

So I went online to find my small, rural, Georgia county's Republican party office, so I could call them and ask them what I should do to realize my dream. Sadly, there was no phone number listed anywhere on the site, and the "join the party!" link led to a scanned-in gif of a form that you have to print out and mail in.

I then called Georgia's Republican party office and told the nice lady on the phone that I'd signed up to be an election observer for Trump but hadn't heard from anyone, and could she help me?

"What?" she said, sounding spooked, "An election observer? Where did you do that?"

"On Trump's website," I said.

"What? Really. Really?"

"Yes, and I haven't heard anything yet, and I wanted to know if maybe there was some coordination between, uh, Trump campaign efforts locally and the local GOP offices."

"No," she said, "There is no coordination. And this "election observer" thing is news to me. No one's said anything about it all. No one here has even heard of it."

"OK," I said, "Well, it's on his website."

She kind of groaned and suggested I call my local GOP office to ask if I could be a poll worker ("not observer," she said, sounding disgusted.) She gave me the phone number and I called the guy, but he has not called me back.

I will call him again and am planning to contact the Trump campaign itself (if I can find anyone actually working for it) to ask if I can observe the election. I'll let you know if anything interesting happens, but I doubt anything will happen at all. These people are rank amateurs.

On the other hand, you can't swing a dead cat around these parts without hitting a Trump voter (believe me, I've tried), so his ground game may not matter all that much.
posted by staggering termagant at 6:38 PM on August 23, 2016 [120 favorites]


Protester getting kicked out. The highbros' over-the-top reactions are reminiscent of the audience at a Jerry Springer show.
posted by mochapickle at 6:39 PM on August 23, 2016


I brought my sons ashes, I have no family left, remember that if you feel sympathy for illegal immigrants. And Mr. Donald J Trump.
BuildtheWallBuildtheWallBuildtheWall
[real]

Highbro is airdrumming now.
posted by petebest at 6:39 PM on August 23, 2016


Feldman Group (I'm not familiar with them)
Wha' dya know?
posted by Floydd at 6:40 PM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Significant protest delay, can't see anything, woman in a white tshirt marched out. Go white tshirt lady.
posted by petebest at 6:41 PM on August 23, 2016


At this point, I wouldn't be shocked if the "protestors" are campaign plants to gin-up the drama.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:44 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm amused that the toque is apparently common property between the highbros.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:44 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


HFA has been asking for lawyers and law students to sign up to be election observers (which is a real thing that campaigns do do and have done before, but every time I hear of it, the solicitation is explicitly to lawyers, not just randos who feel like giving voters stink-eyes).
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:44 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Hillary has taken huge amounts of cash and done a bunch of favors for people and we're all embarrassed. She lied. She said she used one device but she used multiple devices so that was another lie. Can you imagine what was on the deleted emails?! Why were her lawyers set free?

Highbros are getting bored.
posted by petebest at 6:46 PM on August 23, 2016


Heavy, put-upon sigh from the white dude in front of the highbros lololol
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:46 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Another protestor. Bernie protestors had more vim and vigor. These are very low energy.
posted by petebest at 6:48 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Hi, not all african american people live in inner cities. Thank you.
posted by mochapickle at 6:50 PM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


This is just... if I wasn't a dyed in the wool social liberalist I'm pretty sure I could be fooled and swayed by this. It's just so seductive and easy.
posted by Talez at 6:51 PM on August 23, 2016


The UBS saga is flopping. Seekrit identities, the government settled. Her intervention was described (presumably "by some") as "unusual". I have called for a special prosecutor to look into this mess. LockherupLockherupLockherup. We will win. You'll be voting for justice, equality, and jobs. Everyone will be happy if I win.
posted by petebest at 6:51 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


What's with the way he says 'Latino?' Does he think that's flattering?

It'd be like saying 'Jewish' while doing Eddie Murphy's Yiddish accent.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:52 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump just accused Hillary of seeing african americans only as votes, not as people, says the man who has never met with the NAACP.
posted by mochapickle at 6:52 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


This Breitbart-era shit is utterly terrifying. Flipping bigotry back on Clinton. It's like doublespeak out of 1984.
posted by Talez at 6:52 PM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]


This is just... if I wasn't a dyed in the wool social liberalist I'm pretty sure I could be fooled and swayed by this. It's just so seductive and easy.

Luke: Is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.
posted by Justinian at 6:52 PM on August 23, 2016 [28 favorites]


(Nice job on the liveblog, petebest.)
posted by mochapickle at 6:54 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Luke: Is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.


Does this mean we can anticipate Trump, losing his limbs, on fire?
posted by tzikeh at 6:55 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Highbro, is getting into it. We've had some shadowboxing, some ladder climbing, some x-armed thumbs up.

America first.

Fin, exit to Wagner
posted by petebest at 6:55 PM on August 23, 2016


This Breitbart-era shit is utterly terrifying. Flipping bigotry back on Clinton. It's like doublespeak out of 1984.

Who is it fooling? Not African Americans. Maybe some suburban whites which is who it's intended for, but anyone who's convinced by it is clearly just looking for an excuse. And he needs to do a lot more than just get some stray Republicans back in the fold.
posted by chris24 at 6:55 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Kind of funny that the overall trend of the "meta-margin" over the last month on PEC goes up faster than the slope of the 95% yellow cone.
posted by ctmf at 6:58 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


The "nay, but it is liberals who are racist!" line has been in the Republican playbook for decades. It just used to be mentioned in passing and now is turned up to FULL BLAST because of Trump's projection thing.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:58 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


Fin, exit to Wagner
posted by petebest at 7:01 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


GOP Senator Jeff Flake: I don't think Trump can or should win
posted by chris24 at 7:02 PM on August 23, 2016 [15 favorites]


Luke: Is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

Does this mean we can anticipate Trump, losing his limbs, on fire?


I'd like to think his campaign is losing them more in the manner of The Black Knight.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:03 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


chris24: GOP Senator Jeff Flake: I don't think Trump can or should win

Of the many weirdnesses of this campaign season, that it's led me to grudgingly respect our junior Senator isn't anywhere near the top of the list, but it's on there.
posted by Superplin at 7:07 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


(I mean, let's not go overboard: he says he "wants to support Trump" and qualifies his non-support by saying it's contingent on failure to course-correct, so he's still pretty vile. Just marginally less so than I would have expected of him.)
posted by Superplin at 7:09 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Luke: Is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

Does this mean we can anticipate Trump, losing his limbs, on fire?
posted by tzikeh at 8:55 PM on August 23


If he does I'm walking away from Alderaan.
posted by Reverend John at 7:15 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Wow. That was his longest speech since the RNC.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:19 PM on August 23, 2016


They also sparred over Bongino’s two failed campaigns ― running unsuccessfully for both the House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate ― in Maryland before moving to Florida.

Oh, that guy. Sorry about that FLA.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:44 PM on August 23 [+] [!]


Not to worry, ChurchHatesTucker, our little peninsula full of giant cockroaches, algae-covered beaches, and face-eating psycopaths welcomes your hilariously named shitbucket of a candidate with open arms! Or, should I say, openly carried!
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:19 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


You gotta figure, Florida Man will try to vote Trump, but something bad will happen to him on the way to the polls.
posted by thelonius at 7:23 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


Listening to the Tim Kaine podcast. Can I just say how wonderful it is to hear him talk about not just his wife supporting him, but him supporting his wife in her career, as Secretary of Education? And also when asked about the decision she made to resign and support him he talks about how she kept her own name and wanted her own career so the decision was not made lightly, but because of how Hillary's passions for education overlapped with his wife's.
posted by peacheater at 7:24 PM on August 23, 2016 [26 favorites]


Feldman Group poll of LV in *South Carolina* (for the SC Democratic Party) finds HRC and DT *tied* at 39 (not necessarily an outlier, as PPP also found them close within the margin of error last month).

Whoa.
posted by spitbull at 7:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Cher is on Lawrence O'Donnell and it's amazing.
posted by zutalors! at 7:28 PM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


HFA has been asking for lawyers and law students to sign up to be election observers (which is a real thing that campaigns do do and have done before, but every time I hear of it, the solicitation is explicitly to lawyers, not just randos who feel like giving voters stink-eyes).

I did this with OFA in 2008, see above. If you're a lawyer/law student I'd highly suggest doing it. In 2008 they gave us training and a legal packet on things to look for, what we could do (not much except call the hotline and report it, document what you saw and give a statement in the event of a lawsuit), and what to say (not a lot, answer very basic questions if asked), where to stand, etc. In 2008 there were volunteer legal observers at something like 1000 polling places in Missouri.

I'm not sure OFA did it again in 2012, I dont really know, and I was a DC resident at that time so I didn't bother to find out. I may sign up to do it again now that I live in VA, although VA is looking like a lock at the moment too.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:37 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


GOP Senator Jeff Flake: I don't think Trump can or should win

I read this as they're getting seriously worried about McCain.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:38 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


My husband's boss is a Trump supporter (who doesn't intend to vote). He's big on the issue of illegal immigration. My husband spluttered at him, "But you HIRE illegal immigrants!" And he said, "Yeah, but I shouldn't be able to."

These people are masters of cognitive dissonance.
Actually I'd give that boss partial credit on intellectual honesty and pragmatism, even though I'd totally fail him on morals. It's man-bites-dog to see someone asking to have laws enacted to stop themself from doing something. Most people want laws that stop others from doing something that they don't do themself, or that doesn't affect them.
posted by Autumn Leaf at 7:43 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Context, for those who didn't hang out on LJ a LOT about a decade ago

Huh. Thanks for that, Pope Guilty. I did nothing BUT hang out on LJ about a decade ago, and somehow missed that entirely.

All this time, I just figured one of the Beatles had done something appalling....
posted by kythuen at 7:44 PM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Fin, exit to Wagner

Wait, did this really happen or not?
posted by donatella at 7:49 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


39-39 in SC is from a four-way poll that includes Johnson and Stein; a strict two-way is 45-43 to Trump. There are enough overlapping media markets with NC and GA to mean that Clinton's already on the air there -- the only ones that aren't cover Charleston and Columbia -- but field operations are likely to be tough.
posted by holgate at 7:51 PM on August 23, 2016


I'm watching little orphan Annie on the POP channel. Daddy Warbucks is a total dick. [Real]

I watched Weiner on Amazon (thanks for the tip upthread). Anthony Weiner is a total dick. [Real]

p.s. The small, perfect scene of Huma in the background eating pizza on election night is the definition of "out of fucks to give."
posted by sallybrown at 7:53 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Wait, did this really happen or not?

The person running the live stream plays him on and off to Wagner. It's added, not the live entry/exit music.
posted by chris24 at 7:57 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Oh hey, I just realized MSNBC didn't break into even a second of their programming tonight to cover Trimp's rally live. Fantastic.
posted by cashman at 8:01 PM on August 23, 2016 [19 favorites]


Of the many weirdnesses of this campaign season, that it's led me to grudgingly respect our junior Senator isn't anywhere near the top of the list, but it's on there.

Same. Realizing that Jeff Flake is not the worst (I mean, that's as far I'm willing to go, BUT STILL), and feeling a tiny bit better that he's representing AZ, has been a minor, positive mindtrip among all the unpleasant unsettledness.
posted by mixedmetaphors at 8:07 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


All this time, I just figured one of the Beatles had done something appalling....

John Ringo's troublesome prose and awful views of women is well-outlined above. I have a friend (and former flatmate) who is both a moderately successful SF author and also pretty liberal left-leaning by nature; I should see if he has ever considered writing some thoughtful, feminist science fiction under the pen name Paul George.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:11 PM on August 23, 2016 [38 favorites]


> Psst. You guys...

We have to go back, Kate.
WE HAVE TO GO BACK!
posted by guiseroom at 8:12 PM on August 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'm felling pretty good about my prediction from March:
This is how she's going to win. She and Trump have both been public figures for decades, so people already have an idea of who they are.

As we get closer to the election and it's formally down to him versus her, people will take a second look. With her, they'll think, "I thought she was a bitch but she's kind of nice and funny." With him they'll think, "I always thought he was kind of a blowhard, but I didn't realize how much of an asshole he is."

Advantage Hils.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:14 PM on August 23, 2016 [32 favorites]


Asking "what are you going to do?" repeatedly when Donny just trots out some "tougher on crime" line. "How?" Maybe Bill softened later on in the segment, but he sounded honestly annoyed that Donnie kept bringing out the same (agreed upon) fearmongering without any solid answers to the problems. Reminding the Fox viewers that Donnie has no actual solutions. Delightful.

Did you not even watch the segment? He may have no solutions, but he knows a guy who does – one of the best guys, believe me – who knows exactly what to do. Trump haste a very good relationship with this guy and respects him, and this guy has a solution worked out.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:19 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


The person running the live stream plays him on and off to Wagner.

Not chilling at all!
posted by Miko at 8:20 PM on August 23, 2016 [10 favorites]


Not chilling at all!

Neither am I. Kinda freaking out, actually.
posted by dersins at 8:22 PM on August 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


I just realized MSNBC didn't break into even a second of their programming tonight to cover Trimp's rally live.

They did apparently have Ann Coulter on plugging her book, so there's that.
posted by holgate at 8:32 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Hillary 550% Obama Trojan horse,
terrer, 9/11, Boston bombing, Orlando, but Hillary wants
to let everyone come in
its a nightmare just like Europe ask them.

We owe 220 trillion but we're not
going to pay they can
pay they have the money
I'm going to suspend visas the
oath of citizenship


london bridge is falling down falling down falling down

poi s’ascose nel foco che gli affina
quando fiam ceu chelidon—O swallow swallow
Le Prince d’Aquitaine à la tour abolie
these fragments I have shored against my ruins
Why then Ile fit you. Hieronymo’s mad againe.
Datta. Dayadhvam. Damyata.

shantih shantih shantih
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 8:34 PM on August 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw.
Trump/Pence 2016
posted by airish at 8:42 PM on August 23, 2016 [17 favorites]


I will show you the best fear in a really big handful of dust.
posted by infinitewindow at 8:45 PM on August 23, 2016 [30 favorites]


Trump Off Camera: The Man Behind The 'In-Your-Face Provocateur', a Fresh Air interview by Dave Davies with the co-authors of Trump Revealed: An American Journey of Ambition, Ego, Money, and Power. Transcript.
DAVIES: Let's let's just spend a moment on this episode 'cause it's an interesting one. What were the facts? What caused the government to charge that the Trump company was discriminating in renting apartments?

KRANISH: Well, agents of the Trump company allegedly were - when a black person would come in to rent an apartment in a certain area, they would mark down codes on sheets. They would write C for colored or number nine.

And these would indicate whether or not a black person had come and whether or not they wanted to put that person in a certain apartment. And time and again, testers were sent. There were city agency officials. There were housing officials.

And they would go and represent themselves as potential tenants. And then they would file reports. And they eventually filed enough reports showing that there were - there was bias. For example, I interviewed a woman who was part of this testing. And she recalled she was a white woman and her husband was African-American.

Her husband went to rent an apartment one day and was told, there was no space at this apartment for you. The next day, his wife came back for the same exact apartment and was told, we'd be delighted to have you. Little did the Trump folks know - but this woman was accompanied by housing officials who were waiting outside to see what would happen.

They then confronted this rental agent and went over to the Trump company offices. And it became part of the case that was built against Donald and Fred Trump. And so what I would underscore here is that this was a case that named Donald. It named Fred, and it named their company.

posted by xyzzy at 9:32 PM on August 23, 2016 [53 favorites]


So getting away from the Trump/Cthulhu stuff for a minute.
Somehow I live in Austin and have experienced absolutely zero election stuff, outside of immediate family and a bit of today's bizarro "rally" thanks to y'all, but this week I've seen a few official Hillary signs and bumper stickers popping up. I grew up in the rust belt decline and rebirth and redecline in Ohio and Michigan. And have lived and worked in the highest-tech whatevers in SF.
And this week (how is it only Tuesday) I have spent hours at a machine shop, perfecting the processes to make little metal parts say the right thing to the right people. I guesss I'm saying all this because when politicians are talking about jobs jobs jobs and tariffs and deals, it's the kind of thing that has an immediate impact on what I'm doing, and the decisions a large organization makes. Because the part I'm responsible for is the design- the part that affects how people feel about inanimate objects. Which is obviously a luxury. The places I grew up in were like leftovers of WW I-II, and there have been many studies done on what happened there and how a war-production economy works and fails when there's not enough big war. Hello, 20th-Century America! Are we ready to move on? To the next big thing? That affects all of us?

And I'm working with a guy who has an amazing machine shop, who's hiring people and starting a second shift, and working past midnight to achieve, in metal, the functional needs and aesthetic ideals of the people (in a not-big, but industry-influential company, who employs people right here, Made in America, I'm lookin at you) he's making those parts for. The things we're making are pretty antithetical to a war-state. And I want to be able to work with them on more than just this, because these are people with real, functional ideas about physiscs, materials, and how we can make energy not depend on dinosaurs.

That's pretty fuckin awesome.

Not a single person outside of the hour or so of radio I listen to has mentioned the election. We all got shit to do. Problems to solve. Like the stuff I ordered from the campaign shop a couple weeks ago, still not shipped! Get your shit together! We should have been wearing out our Hillary shirts already.

Let's get over this speedbump, and put it past us. Make it decisive. Make it a mandate.
posted by rp at 10:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [23 favorites]


Mother Jones has a fascinating long excerpt from Strangers in Their Own Land: Anger and Mourning on the American Right, by sociologist Arlie Hochschild.

A sample:

Shaming the "takers" below had been a precious mark of higher status. What if, as a vulnerable blue-collar white worker, one were now to become a "taker" oneself?

Trump, the King of Shame, has covertly come to the rescue. He has shamed virtually every line-cutting group in the Deep Story—women, people of color, the disabled, immigrants, refugees. But he's hardly uttered a single bad word about unemployment insurance, food stamps, or Medicaid, or what the tea party calls "big government handouts," for anyone—including blue-collar white men.

In this feint, Trump solves a white male problem of pride. Benefits? If you need them, okay. He masculinizes it.

posted by salix at 10:29 PM on August 23, 2016 [23 favorites]


Metafilter: Memes aren't about understanding they're about joining in and playing the self-referential, meaningless game.

Seriously people - this should have been up twelve hours ago. We've got to have a better ground game than this by election day!

posted by Kid Charlemagne at 10:36 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Meanwhile, the post-Sanders campaign-to-movement organization continues to be a complete shitshow. It's pretty clear Bernie accidentally caught lightning in a bottle, and neither he nor one around him had any fucking idea what to do with it during or after. Anything that arises from the Bernie campaign won't be because of the candidate, or anyone associated with the official campaign, which is unfortunate. He had the opportunity to be a real leader even in defeat, but him or his people or both are fumbling it away big time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:36 PM on August 23, 2016 [19 favorites]


I feel if we achieve nothing else this year we could at least get Corb's dad some decent military sf to read.
posted by um at 11:05 PM on August 23, 2016 [28 favorites]


(but please: in another thread. this one is already seen derails enough.)
posted by Nerd of the North at 11:10 PM on August 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I don't think it's Sanders or his people. The people I know who were for Sanders weren't for him because of his policies so much. It was more like they saw Sanders as the magical unicorn who would, with the touch of his horn, dispel the poison in the Federal government and instantly end partisanship, break the enchantment that special interest money had on the house and senate and so on, rather than the realistic model where, if he won, he would get precisely as much cooperation as Obama got.

In hindsight it's not really too surprising to see people who supported Sanders fail to support Sanders' issues.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 11:17 PM on August 23, 2016 [18 favorites]


Second guess was "flying thriller": Brewer Says Calling Clinton A 'Lying Killer' Was A 'Stumble Of The Tongue'
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:26 PM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I don't think it's Sanders or his people. The people I know who were for Sanders weren't for him because of his policies so much. It was more like they saw Sanders as the magical unicorn who would, with the touch of his horn, dispel the poison in the Federal government and instantly end partisanship, break the enchantment that special interest money had on the house and senate and so on, rather than the realistic model where, if he won, he would get precisely as much cooperation as Obama got.

I agree that I think many Sanders supporters had a perhaps optimistic view of what Sanders could achieve, but I disagree that Sanders himself wasn't an issue. If you read the articles about this, the bulk of the staff joined Our Revolution under the promise that Weaver wouldn't be involved. Then late last week Bernie and Jane put him back in control. There were some pretty long, anguished phone calls, but in the end Weaver was going to be the head so that chunk of staffers quit.

I think anyone who saw Weaver on the campaign trail recognized his issues as a staffer. He got by until now on account of being best buds with Bernie and Jane from the 80s, and because if you're staffing for someone occupying a long-term, settled Congressional seat who isn't a big mover and shaker then running a re-election campaign and managing his affairs just doesn't carry the same weight of responsibilities or PR demands. Presidential races are a whole other ballgame.
posted by Anonymous at 11:44 PM on August 23, 2016


Katy Tur interviewing Trump supporters on his changing stance on immigration.
Summary: They are fine with it and trust that he'll "figure it out".

The third guy, Ron, struck me as pretty pragmatic about the immigration issue and probably always knew that Trump's promises of deportation and walls were never gonna happen.

I just know that if Trump just read Hillary Clinton's platform on immigration they'd support him and swear up and down she actually stole the idea from him. Hell, he has two months to transform his entire platform to be identical to Clinton's and his supporters will still support him. I'm so frightened that sexism runs so deep that his big con will actually work.
posted by like_neon at 2:15 AM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


Poll: Trump, Clinton knotted in Missouri

Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are locked in a tight race for Missouri, according to the results of the latest Monmouth University poll of likely voters out Tuesday.
While 44 percent said they will vote for Trump, 43 percent indicated a preference for Clinton, with 8 percent choosing Libertarian nominee Gary Johnson. Another 1 percent said they would vote for another candidate, while 5 percent said they are currently undecided.

posted by petebest at 5:20 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


For the record.l, I believe Arlie Hochschild coined the term "emotional labor," and if not she was the first academic social scientist to write seriously about it (in "The Managed Heart"). She's great!

And this left me wondering:
The things we're making are pretty antithetical to a war-state.

Bicycles? Plowshares?
posted by spitbull at 5:21 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


It's the Bernie and Jane show, starring Jeff Weaver!
posted by spitbull at 5:23 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


I feel if we achieve nothing else this year we could at least get Corb's dad some decent military sf to read.

OK but do it by 12/31 because as soon as the ball drops we are never speaking of this year again.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:53 AM on August 24, 2016 [43 favorites]


Let's get over this speedbump, and put it past us. Make it decisive. Make it a mandate.

this, this and oh yeah before I forget, this.
posted by lampshade at 5:56 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


And now news from the Far Right:

The Daily Beast has an interesting report out that says Trump's campaign used $55,000 in campaign funds to buy 3,500 copies of his book, "Crippled America" to hand out at the RNC. They paid full price for the book at Barnes and Noble stores rather than buy directly at a discount from the publisher. This was undoubtedly an attempt to push the book on to the NYTimes Best Selling List (it didn't work.) Unfortunately for Trump this would be illegal under the FEC laws if he collects the royalties from thuse sales.

All of you who live in Michigan should be wary next Tuesday 4:00 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. as Breitbart has announced that "Flash Mobs for Trump" will be assembling at 15 mystery locations around the state to wave flags and other Trump merchandise. How this will lead to votes come election day eludes me.

on the other hand, if you are in Raleigh this Saturday, volunteers from the local Democratic Party will be registering people to vote at the Caribbean Festival downtown. Should be more fun than a flash mob and with tastier food, too.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:05 AM on August 24, 2016 [19 favorites]


I just know that if Trump just read Hillary Clinton's platform on immigration they'd support him and swear up and down she actually stole the idea from him. Hell, he has two months to transform his entire platform to be identical to Clinton's and his supporters will still support him. I'm so frightened that sexism runs so deep that his big con will actually work.
posted by like_neon at 5:15 AM on August 24

Don't despair, read Josh Marshall's take on the immigration walk back: Dazed and Confused
It's seldom good when a campaign's supporters can't figure out where the campaign stands on a given issue. It's never good when the campaign itself can't figure out where the campaign stands on a given issue. It's seems ridiculous and adrift.

There's always a temptation with the Trump campaign to uncover some strategy behind what seems on the surface to be scattered, erratic or foolish. But Trump's Razor counsels against this. The truth is the Trump team has no idea what they're doing. Pundits may need a few days to unravel this. But this is at best simply an effort to play for time.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:10 AM on August 24, 2016 [7 favorites]


He's at the center of a vast global web of financial relationships. He owes a fortune to institutions at home and overseas," Kaine added.

Good start. "Vast global web of debt to China and Russia" scans better, but hey. Don't give up the momentum to this bush-league 'tough on crime' malarkey.*

Also thanks to decades of evil from the right and hapless yammering from NPR, Reagan's crooked incompetence won't play but what about Nixon? Obvioulsy vastly more competent in politics than the Unhinged Pig, but they're both scammy, unctuous, salesmen. NIXON/TRUMP 1972.

*heh. See whati did there
posted by petebest at 6:10 AM on August 24, 2016


Cheeto Nixon. Available for parties, weddings, bar mitzvahs, RNC nominee.
posted by petebest at 6:13 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Uh oh someone forgot to feed Ben Carson his lines. He went on Morning Joe this morning and stated that anyone elderly running for President should "expose" their medical records-- including Trump.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:14 AM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


The truth is the Trump team has no idea what they're doing.

I totally agree, but the Trump campaign has already shown they are not above plagiarising, who's to say they won't steal Clinton's platform and sell it as their own? His supporters don't seem to be able to tell the difference between genuine vs. cheap knockoffs.
posted by like_neon at 6:14 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Assuming he was willing and able to swing all the way over to Clinton, he would still be losing at least one conservative for every one of the unicorn moderate undecided votes he gained.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:19 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Uh oh someone forgot to feed Ben Carson his lines. He went on Morning Joe this morning......

oh lawdy....not again??

excuse me now. i have to get back to my wheat fields.
posted by lampshade at 6:22 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


Cher is on Lawrence O'Donnell and it's amazing.

Cher slams Trump’s ‘disingenuous’ promises to gay fans: ‘My people will not believe him’
posted by palindromic at 6:23 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


"Flash Mobs for Trump

*AHEM!* (points at "NO GODWINNING" sign)
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:25 AM on August 24, 2016 [9 favorites]


If nothing else comes out of this election but the legend of Ben Carson, idiot neurosurgeon for Jesus, it will still be a great boon for American novelists and scriptwriters.

If you invented his character no one would buy it.
posted by spitbull at 6:25 AM on August 24, 2016 [23 favorites]


Ben Carson was only friends with Trump because Donald once referred to his "pyramid schemes" and wacky misunderstandings ensued
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:26 AM on August 24, 2016 [20 favorites]


"Flash Mobs for Trump"
posted by spitbull at 6:29 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Cher slams Trump’s ‘disingenuous’ promises to gay fans: ‘My people will not believe him’

The Chers for Clinton made me smile.
posted by peeedro at 6:30 AM on August 24, 2016 [9 favorites]


"Flash Mobs for Trump

*AHEM!* (points at "NO GODWINNING" sign)


Fash Mobs?
posted by Artw at 6:31 AM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


Flesh Mobs
posted by cashman at 6:37 AM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


According to their campaign manager of the week, All the Trump voters are actually undercover

(But they can't say how much of a difference those undercover voters actually account for, because reasons...)
posted by strange chain at 6:46 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


"Flash mob" is so played out let's take it and turn it, what about mmmmm "Lightning Squad!" Yeah! And everyone gets a t shirt with the Lightning logo! Whoo" [Fake, so far]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:47 AM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


I feel if we achieve nothing else this year we could at least get Corb's dad some decent military sf to read.

The Ancillary series fits the bill perfectly, and would serve as a pretty good counterpoint.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:48 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'd suggest the John Scalzi Old Man's War books.
posted by Artw at 6:53 AM on August 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


The Ancillary series fits the bill perfectly, and would serve as a pretty good counterpoint.

I'd disagree. Not that I'm saying that they are remotely bad books - but they aren't at all where I'd jump to off bad MilSF. Instead it would be the Vorkosigan Saga and the Serrano Legacy. Both by liberal authors back when Jim Baen was running Baen Books (i.e. when they were being run by someone who liked entertaining books and happened to be right wing rather than vise-versa) and with protagonists that would be much easier for someone used to MilSF to get their head into.
posted by Francis at 6:57 AM on August 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


Yep, Artw nailed it: mail him the first couple books at least.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:58 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


spitbullThe things we're making are pretty antithetical to a war-state.

Bicycles? Plowshares?


Essentially really expensive toys.

As expected, a lot of chatter about the Trump stump in Austin, on the radio this morning. No clue what, if any, impact it may have, but a lot of people just seem to be scratching their heads about the whole thing.
posted by rp at 7:00 AM on August 24, 2016


Pretty sure she said it was actually gor, but gor isn't a meme, and anyway this is a derail and these threads are too long already so we should try not to clutter things up.
posted by fomhar at 7:02 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


In this feint, Trump solves a white male problem of pride. Benefits? If you need them, okay. He masculinizes it.

I don't accept this formulation. To say Trump masculinizes the idea of accepting government services is to insult men. And women, for that matter.

As I see it, he provides a false pretext for avoiding or countering shame some people might otherwise feel, by legitimizing the idea of exploiting government for personal ends, which he does in direct and indirect ways.
posted by perspicio at 7:02 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


white tshirt protest lady from the Austin rally, in "Jesus Wouldn't Vote Trump" shirt (brilliant)

trucker hat guy from earlier in the rally with less of a forgiving message for Trump.
posted by petebest at 7:07 AM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


"Lightning Squad!"

BlitzTwëeten, surely.
posted by petebest at 7:09 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


I doubt that Jesus would make it past the extreme vetting - so no voting for Jesus.
posted by Golem XIV at 7:10 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


that picture of the truck hat guy is freaking scary
look at those people baying after him. and when Trump loses, all those rabidly angry people are going to shrug and look to Pinterest to see what they do next?
I don't think so
posted by angrycat at 7:12 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


From Josh Marshall's Dazed and Confused:
This is a campaign on its third leadership team, with the latest a two headed monster made up of a white nationalist crank and a GOP pollster who was until recently a proponent of getting the GOP behind immigration reform. They're far behind with eleven weeks to go before the election trying to figure out some way to stop losing. There's a well-known word for campaigns that try to completely upend their entire message and policy menu with 80 days to go before an election. They're called "losing campaigns."

Step back for a moment from the Trumpite word salad and you'll realize all of this is true.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:13 AM on August 24, 2016 [18 favorites]


When Trump was on O'Reilly Monday night he claimed he could stop violence in Chicago in one week:

"I know police in Chicago," Trump said on the show. "If they were given the authority to do it, they would get it done."
When O'Reilly pushed for specifics, Trump went on to say that when he was in Chicago once he met some "very top police" who assured him they could stop the violence in one week. "And I believed him 100 percent," Trump said. "Tough police tactics," (though he didn't explain what he meant by that exactly), Trump said, would get the job done. When O'Reilly countered that a police officer doesn't have the authority to just beat people up and arrest them without cause, Trump doubled down.
"I could see by the way [this unspecified 'top cop'] was dealing with his people, he was a rough, tough guy. They respected him greatly," he said. "I said, 'How do you think you do it?' He said, 'Mr. Trump, within one week, we could stop much of this horror show that's going on.'

Yeah the same as it ever was from today's Sun-Times:
CPD spokesman Frank Giancamilli said Tuesday that no such conversation took place.

“No one in the senior command at CPD has ever met with Donald Trump or a member of his campaign,” Giancamilli said.

'Trump spokeswoman Hope Hicks on Tuesday clarified that it was during Trump’s visit “in the spring,” presumably his March trip that included a rally at University of Illinois at Chicago that was canceled because of security concerns by the GOP candidate. Trump has said that the rally was shut down at the request of CPD, a claim interim Supt. John Escalante immediately said was false.'
posted by readery at 7:14 AM on August 24, 2016 [66 favorites]


mochapickle: Mark Burns, tapping his bare wrist: "Not on my watch!"

Idioms! (not really SFW - yeah, I'm just getting on board with Archer)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:15 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]






angrycat - I've been thinking it would be a great idea for people to volunteer to observe on Election Day and night not just at polling places, but at women's clinics, black churches, synagogues, and other places that are not involved but are vulnerable to dudes with "economic anxiety." I don't mean open-carrying and looking for trouble; I mean just existing, to deter the cowardly and call the authorities if necessary.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:19 AM on August 24, 2016 [9 favorites]


Another Talking Points Memo article: Trump is Wally George, a sort of proto-Morton Downey Jr.

If you were anyone watching Wally George in the early 80s, you watch these viral videos from the Trump rallies and think "Ahh, yep, I totally remember this." The common denominator of blonde/grey/dyed helmet hair is only an additional touch. Indeed, the Trump rally game is almost old hat if you've seen Wally George, pro-wrestling or Roller Derby. Only this time it's a show revolving around the guy who is almost certainly going to be the Republican nominee for President. And it is playing out on an infinitely bigger stage, with an overlay of resentment and desire for payback that puts it in an altogether different league.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:22 AM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


Trump’s Vision of Black America Is a White Supremacist Fantasy.

Trump ... has made his pitch to lily-white audiences in towns and neighborhoods with few black residents. And for good reason. Trump is never going to win more than a token percentage of black voters. If he wants the White House, he’ll need to persuade as many white voters as possible, and a visible commitment to diversity is one way to win over a certain class of right-leaning, suburban whites.
posted by rory at 7:22 AM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


“I can’t discuss it,” she said. “It’s a project we’re doing internally. I call it the undercover Trump voter, but it’s real.”

Kimberly Conway, from strange chain's link above. I love how "but it's real " is a perfectly normal thing for the Trump campaign to append to a statement to the press.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 7:28 AM on August 24, 2016 [9 favorites]




Kellyanne Conway, not Kimberly.
posted by zutalors! at 7:32 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


“I can’t discuss it,” she said. “It’s a project we’re doing internally. I call it the undercover Trump voter, but it’s real.”

CPD spokesman Frank Giancamilli said Tuesday that no such conversation took place.


I know lying is second nature to these people (KellyAnne Conway, Trump, Bannon, Hope Hicks, etc.) but do they ever think about the long term consequences? Do they ever have the thought that lying like this, just telling flat out falsehoods will have repercussions? I know it's a ridiculous question, but I wonder sometimes, especially as someone who deals in ethics, whether they have any conscience at all or if they are utterly bereft of it.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:39 AM on August 24, 2016 [22 favorites]


Ah, you're right, zutalors! Time to rethink my "posting on a crowd train, how hard can it be?" attitude.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 7:40 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


And for those in the crowd like me, who will be dumb enough to watch and be angered, Conway will be on Rachel Maddow's show tonight.
posted by cashman at 7:44 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


When O'Reilly countered that a police officer doesn't have the authority to just beat people up and arrest them without cause, Trump doubled down.

"What do you have to lose?" Civil Rights! Say it again, Civil Rights!
posted by puddledork at 7:55 AM on August 24, 2016 [7 favorites]


Sam Wang at Princeton has Clinton at 96% odds to win.

We are now at such a state with the polling that when FiveThirtyEight gives Clinton 86% odds my first thought is "Damn, that's low."
posted by rorgy at 7:58 AM on August 24, 2016 [19 favorites]


Sorry if this isn't allowed, but can anyone give me context on this? Is this real?
posted by gucci mane at 8:00 AM on August 24, 2016


I normally watch Rachel Maddow anyway. Rachel makes it a point not to interrupt her interviewees. It happens from time to time, but Maddow specifically tries not to interrupt them. So I know Conway will be able to get off a bunch of lies, half truths, deliberate misdirections and some flat out whoppers when she appears.

It's maddening because Rachel is brilliant. I mean it's her show so she can run it how she likes, but I have a hard time believing that she couldn't flat out have a field day with Conway. It's like when Rachel talks to or is on a panel with Nicole Wallace. Nicole interrupts Rachel, talks over Rachel, and often ignores what Rachel is saying or asking. And then at the end of it, Rachel is just so pleased with Wallace.

But Rachel knows her shit. She'll go through a lengthy intro on her show, detailing facts and tying obscure things into a coherent narrative and introducing depth into a subject. But I hate how Rachel opts for civility over confrontation so many times. It's probably because I hate when I do that personally. But at some point, Rachel just has to go in guns blazing. This isn't a joke. This is not a game. As much as I love when she gives me the news and also makes me crack up laughing, like she was doing as she covered each Republican dropping out of the race one by one, poof by poof, it's time to close this out.

Conway spits so many untruths and plays so many games, Rachel should be able to twist her into a knot of lies and make an example out of Conway. I'm sure MSNBC doesn't want that, because they feel like it would mean they would have no shot at interviewing Trump himself, which they clearly want. But at some point you have to look at how history is going to judge you. There is a great evil rising, and if you have the chance to stomp it out, to send it back into its hole decisively, you have to at least try. Perhaps Conway being crushed on national television wouldn't do it, and Rachel would save the finishing blow for Trump himself. All I know is that it is tough to watch Conway say ridiculous things uninterrupted, but watch her turn right around and interrupt Maddow. And the "we report, you decide" way things will be presented is not useful at this time.
posted by cashman at 8:03 AM on August 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


I know lying is second nature to these people (KellyAnne Conway, Trump, Bannon, Hope Hicks, etc.) but do they ever think about the long term consequences? Do they ever have the thought that lying like this, just telling flat out falsehoods will have repercussions? I know it's a ridiculous question, but I wonder sometimes, especially as someone who deals in ethics, whether they have any conscience at all or if they are utterly bereft of it.

Some people do have little or no conscience. I've worked with people like this and as someone who does have one I've found it super difficult to deal with because it's just so foreign. Lying for them seems to be just a tool in their toolbox that they'll use if they see it to their benefit. Some are better then other at sussing out the longer term consequences and factor it into whatever cost benefit analysis that goes on in their heads.
posted by Jalliah at 8:03 AM on August 24, 2016 [10 favorites]


Do they ever have the thought that lying like this, just telling flat out falsehoods will have repercussions? I

For them? It never has before.
posted by Artw at 8:05 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


Sorry if this isn't allowed, but can anyone give me context on this? Is this real?

What do you think?
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:06 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


The Austin Chronicle tries out nine reasons Trump's in the city.

As it freely admits, none of them makes sense.

It's 75 days to the election. A day spent doing nothing constructive wastes 1.3 percent of time left.
posted by Devonian at 8:07 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


does anyone know when the first episode of the Greg Nog and corb campaign for Hillary podcast goes up
posted by beerperson at 8:07 AM on August 24, 2016 [18 favorites]


Sorry if this isn't allowed, but can anyone give me context on this? Is this real?

Real

Army Training Lesson Cited Clinton as 'Insider' Threat Risk

The unclassified slide, which first emerged on a Facebook page that spoofs the military, was confirmed by a U.S. military officials, who said it was used as part of a lesson on how to secure classified materials and improve safety.

A spokesperson from the Army's Training and Doctrine Command said the slide was developed 18 months ago.

"As is common with Army training requirements, the local unit was given latitude to develop their own training products to accomplish the overall training objective," the spokesperson said in a statement.

"This particular presentation had not been reviewed or approved by the unit's leadership, and does not reflect the position of the Army. The training presentation has since been removed."

posted by Jalliah at 8:07 AM on August 24, 2016 [10 favorites]


Sorry if this isn't allowed, but can anyone give me context on this? Is this real?

Given what I've seen about how military training powerpoints get made, I see no reason why it wouldn't be real in the sense of "someone affiliated with the Army made a powerpoint presentation about security, and presented it in a training session."

But it's not like training decks are submitted for approval or vetted or anything that could lead you to believe that any random slide has any sort of "official" sanction. The presenter could be a private or specialist or a civilian contractor, or any other of the 10s of thousands of folks who get tasked with making slide decks.

And all that being said, the slide is not wrong. Best case scenario from the FBI report is that Clinton was "careless." Putting her on a slide with Manning and Petraeus isn't totally out of line (though poor timing, politically)
posted by sparklemotion at 8:10 AM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


> the Vorkosigan Saga and the Serrano Legacy

I'd forward Jack Campbell's The Lost Fleet series as a more gentle ideological transition. The old ways really are the better (after a century of decadence), rightful mistrust of politicians/political structures, honour and duty in the armed forces, and the main protagonist is competence porn writ large and well. However women serve, command, govern, and rule effectively. Unrestrained corporatism is also villified and the thought experiment is brought to it's logical conclusion. The militaria is high grade, too.
posted by porpoise at 8:10 AM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


Trump's in Tampa this afternoon (Mar-a-Lago) and Jackson, MS tonight (fundraiser, basically) then back east. Nigel Farage will be there, as will chief Brexit dodgy lying moneybags Arron Banks. I can't even make a joke about that.
posted by holgate at 8:15 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


And all that being said, the slide is not wrong. Best case scenario from the FBI report is that Clinton was "careless." Putting her on a slide with Manning and Petraeus isn't totally out of line (though poor timing, politically)

Even given that, many other politicians should also be on that slide seeing as how apparently they have their own private email servers.

It's commonly known that many military personnel do not like Democrats, so I'm not really that surprised she ended up on such a slide in an Army training.
posted by numaner at 8:17 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yeah, if I had a nickel for every time I put together a slide presentation with "funny" stuff in it that I knew my CO would kill, I could buy a cup of coffee. If I had a dollar for every time one of those slides "accidentally" made it by my CO, I could buy... several more cups of coffee.

Believe me, that slide is so far down the list of objectionable things I've seen or heard about Hillary Clinton in the U.S. Army over the last 25 years.
posted by Etrigan at 8:17 AM on August 24, 2016 [21 favorites]




Yeah, if I had a nickel for every time I put together a slide presentation with "funny" stuff in it that I knew my CO would kill, I could buy a cup of coffee. If I had a dollar for every time one of those slides "accidentally" made it by my CO, I could buy... several more cups of coffee.

Yeah, of all things this election, breathless reporting of some NCO's Sergeants' Time training slides is one of the ones I find the most surreal.

I totally would have made this slide! It wakes up your junior guys and lets them both har har and maybe also think. I promise you nobody, NOBODY thought this was going to be reported in the newspaper.

(Sidebar: thanks guys on the book suggestions. Election threads: always a giver!)
posted by corb at 8:26 AM on August 24, 2016 [16 favorites]


Poll: Trump, Clinton knotted in Missouri

I've been telling guys like Trump to go get knotted for years.
 
posted by Herodios at 8:29 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Putting her on a slide with Manning and Petraeus isn't totally out of line
  • Nidal Hasan murdered 13 people and injured more than 30 other people at Fort Hood; he was convicted on multiple felony counts.
  • Aaron Alexis murdered 12 people and injured three others at the Washington Navy Yard; he was killed at the scene.
  • Chelsea Manning was convicted of 17 of 22 charges, including five counts of espionage and theft.
  • David Petraeus pled guilty to unauthorized removal and retention of classified information.
  • Edward Snowden fled federal charges of theft of government property and violating the Espionage Act.
  • Hillary Clinton ran a private email server.
One of these things is not like the others.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:30 AM on August 24, 2016 [74 favorites]


If the timeline on the Fox News coverage is correct ('the slide was developed 18 months ago'), then the presentation actually pre-dates Clinton's candidacy. It would have been produced around February or March of 2015; Clinton only formally announced her candidacy on April 12th, one or two months later. Not that anyone was surprised by the announcement, but, still.

Which is why the Army specified the timeline, I'm sure. If my sailors came up with something like that now, they'd get some quick refresher training on the Hatch act.
posted by macfly at 8:33 AM on August 24, 2016 [11 favorites]


I'm going to file this under "Things I don't understand about the military because I am a civilian."

I would get creamed for doing something like this at every job I've ever had.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:34 AM on August 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


It's 75 days to the election. A day spent doing nothing constructive wastes 1.3 percent of time left.

The Daily 202: Trump’s time management problem:
THE BIG IDEA: The most valuable asset in any campaign is not money. It’s the candidate’s time.

Donald Trump wastes a lot of his.
...
While the bulk of his rallies over the past three months have been in battlegrounds that will actually decide the election, Trump has continued to hold public events in ruby red and bright blue states where it makes little or no sense beyond generating cable coverage.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:34 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


I do not need to see "Trump" and "knotting" [NSFW text] in the same sentence, thank you very much.
posted by pxe2000 at 8:35 AM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


'Trump spokeswoman Hope Hicks on Tuesday clarified that it was during Trump’s visit “in the spring,” presumably his March trip that included a rally at University of Illinois at Chicago that was canceled because of security concerns by the GOP candidate. Trump has said that the rally was shut down at the request of CPD, a claim interim Supt. John Escalante immediately said was false.'

lol what? He's basing his complaints about CPD leadership on a conversation he had with someone in March? Because we got a new interim superintendent on March 28. Or even if it was after Johnson was named, he still would've been brand new to the position when Trump had this alleged "conversation".

On the other hand, I don't trust the CPD either, so it's entirely possible that everyone is lying about everything. But at least CPD doesn't do stupidly simple to disprove lies.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:37 AM on August 24, 2016


Even given that, many other politicians should also be on that slide seeing as how apparently they have their own private email servers.

Yeah, but if your audience doesn't know about them and their circumstances then putting them on the slide as an illustration doesn't do any good. If you were going to talk about innocent but dumb circumvention measures then yeah, it would make sense to talk about Powell as well and how the best plans and classifications aren't going to help if people set up side-channels to move info. But instead that's just a slide about something security people - myself included, in the past - have to endlessly hammer into the heads of people at all levels: perimeter security (a) is insufficient by itself and (2) those external threats pale in comparison to the risks presented by the people inside who you deliberately (and must!) give access to.

It's not a bad slide for that purpose. It's way less effective as indignation fuel. They have some of their own up on the screen, including someone who leaked while one of them and another who was a 4 star. It's a fair slide.
posted by phearlez at 8:38 AM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


From this morning's Democracy Now: Embracing the Alt-Right: New Trump Campaign Chief "Created an Online Haven for White Nationalists".

Sarah Posner and Heather McGee have a good analysis of Trump's embrace of the racist neo-Birchers, with some background info I hadn't heard until now.
posted by dis_integration at 8:39 AM on August 24, 2016 [7 favorites]


Great moments in synchronicity:

Telegraph UK:Nigel Farage to share a platform with Donald Trump

@WhiteHouseHstry: The British set fire to the White House [on this day] in 1814.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:45 AM on August 24, 2016 [22 favorites]


The Washington Post can't find a columnist who supports Donald Trump.
The section, Hiatt says, has an “obligation to help readers understand and think about Trump from a variety of perspectives,” which means that none of the editorial board’s antipathy will “keep us from seeking commentary from him or his supporters.” (Anything they say, though, “would have to meet our standards.” They couldn’t, for instance, say American Muslims celebrated on 9/11: “Being on an opinion page doesn’t mean you can make stuff up.”)
posted by une_heure_pleine at 8:45 AM on August 24, 2016 [16 favorites]


If my sailors came up with something like that now, they'd get some quick refresher training on the Hatch act.

Oh yay, the Hatch Act! I had the privilege of delivering a brief training on it to our bewildered and bored new hires recently, and for those of you who are blissfully unaware of the constraints on public employees: One of its provisions dictates that I am currently legally barred from stating here that I believe Candidate X is a danger to national security, even though I can make the same statement in this same thread tonight at 6 p.m. local time (when I'm off-duty) without fear.
posted by psoas at 8:48 AM on August 24, 2016 [14 favorites]


We got warned (among other more serious things) that simply single-click "liking" a political article on social media could be considered a violation.
posted by ctmf at 8:55 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


Right, psoas, and you can even cite your sources - as long as none of them include a request for donations (hi fellow Hatch persons).
posted by solotoro at 8:57 AM on August 24, 2016


I saw this on Twitter and I feel like it is instructive for something but be warned that it may obliterate any last grasp of sanity you may still desperately cling to.
posted by Tevin at 8:57 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


If my sailors came up with something like that now, they'd get some quick refresher training on the Hatch act.

If you're sabre-rattling with the Hatch act over something like the above on-topic use of Clinton in a powerpoint (presuming it and/or the accompanying talk doesn't include comments about whether someone should or should not vote for her) then you're engaging in exactly the sort of use of it that causes many of us to think it's often applied in an unconstitutional way. Hatch is supposed to prevent people from using government time, resources, and authority positions to engage in political activities. It is not meant to keep American citizens from having opinions or being aware of the news.
posted by phearlez at 8:57 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


I just saw this Trump ad on that Washingtonian article.

It's the first Trump ad I've seen anywhere (other than the occasional bumper sticker or yard sign). It's an, um, interesting promotional item? I mean, it's like Clinton's "woman card" – but without any of the wit, and without anything else, really. Unless they're drawing some connection between "Trump = billionaire", and "gold cards are a thing that billionaires have"? Which...why is that supposed to make me support him, exactly?

Kinda baffling. But then, I'm not the target market.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:01 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'm a little behind on some of my podcast listening, so it wasn't until this morning that I heard episode #21 of Chris Gerhard's Beautiful Stories From Anonymous People podcast, "Make Fruit Baskets Great Again." The conversation is with a caller who supports Trump, and they have a interesting discussion of the ins and outs of politics.

I hate that Chris also refers to Clinton as "crooked," even though he supports her, but as he correctly predicted for his listenership, this was my first exposure to an in-depth conversation with a Trump supporter. I found it scary and fascinating, so worth listening to. The woman is a survivor, having escaped an abusive marriage and lost her house due to disability, but she definitely falls into the "low-information voter" category. (For instance, she repeats several times that refugees are flooding the country with no vetting, which is of course patently false but a common Trump talking point.)

What I found most intriguing is that she agrees the Trump is a bully and says many stupid things, but she's convinced that there's more under the surface. This episode aired on July 26th, so was recorded earlier; I wonder whether she is still on board with her choice now, weeks later, even though he's failed to reveal anything resembling a presidential persona? Or perhaps she's solidified her position to where he would have to do something truly egregious to convince her he's a bad choice.
posted by Superplin at 9:01 AM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


Trotting that slide out as proof of anything is some seriously weak-sauce muckraking.

It's almost like there's no actual dirt in all of those emails...
posted by strange chain at 9:02 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


trucker hat guy from earlier in the rally with less of a forgiving message for Trump.

OK. Does nobody else think this dude bears a striking resemblance to Matthew McConaughey? It is Austin, after all.

I've decided: it's McConaughey. Alright, alright, alright!
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:06 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


The Sun-Sentinel, a paper from South Florida, noticed the same odd thing that I did: yesterday, Saint Leo University had Clinton up by 14, but today Florida Atlantic University has Trump up by 2. That's a much bigger gap than the margins of error allow, so there's no way they're both right. At least one of those polls has to be massively biased.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 9:08 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


It's not McConaughey.

But it would be cool if it was
posted by yhbc at 9:10 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


At least one of those polls has to be massively biased.

Yeah, but "biased" in this case just means "wrong". Margins of error don't mean "We are certain that Clinton is leading by 11 to 17 points," they mean "We are 95 percent certain that Clinton is leading by 11 to 17 points; there is a nonzero-but-very-close-to-zero chance that she will lose Florida by 90 points." (Note: I don't know what the actual numbers are there, but a 95 percent confidence in a three-point margin of error is pretty normal.)

It is entirely possible that any given poll of 1200 people manages to find the only 1200 people in the entire area who support a candidate or position, it's just massively unlikely. Pollsters will admit this if you ask them nicely.
posted by Etrigan at 9:13 AM on August 24, 2016 [9 favorites]


Yeah, the margin of error is a 95% confidence range, which means on average one in twenty polls will be wrong beyond the MOE.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:17 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


Trump is Wally George, a sort of proto-Morton Downey Jr.

Wally George, weirdly enough, was also the father of actress Rebecca De Mornay.

Fun fact!
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:18 AM on August 24, 2016


Pierce's take on the press coverage of the Clinton Foundation is suitably scathing:

If you want a perfect example of what corruption-by-access can do to journalism, you have it right there. The authors know that candidates come and go, but that the permanent class of consultants, advisors, lobbyists, strategists, and other species of political Remoras will be with us always. So you decide that the candidate (and her husband) are to blame for not being ready for another onslaught of thinly sourced investigative offal. That way, your friend in the permanent political class will still return your calls.

It's a wonderful life, truly.

posted by NoxAeternum at 9:18 AM on August 24, 2016 [11 favorites]


At least one of those polls has to be massively biased.

Well, FAU is a public university -- but FAU's poll is from their "Business & Economics Polling Initiative" (BEPI), under Dean Gropper, formerly a prof at Auburn (in Alabama), w/a PhD from Florida State. According to this story, Gropper & BEPI work with Spencer Kimball, who is a republican pollster.

Also worth noting is that FAU uses robocalls, and St. Leo uses an online poll.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:19 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


I had not seen this here -- made me snort on my commute this AM -- Frank Bruni in NYT: Hillary Health Shocker!
posted by bearwife at 9:23 AM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'd like to bring attention to this video of the Orange One motorboating Giuliani as a drag queen. For no reason other than I just learned it exists (via Colbert last night). Posted back in 2011.
posted by numaner at 9:28 AM on August 24, 2016 [12 favorites]


From ABC news, a handy list of Trump's flip flops, immigration being the latest. (Though anyone who believes he would be, for example, humane in his deportations is a disgracefully easy mark.)
posted by bearwife at 9:29 AM on August 24, 2016


numaner, that's some seriously sanity-destroying shit
posted by angrycat at 9:32 AM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


> Meanwhile, the post-Sanders campaign-to-movement organization continues to be a complete shitshow.

Of course, because Jeff Weaver is still involved. It will continue to be awful as long as he is involved, and if the large amount of committed people who left specifically because he IS involved didn't get the message through to Sanders that he's the wrong guy - a message that should have already been loud and clear with Weavers actions towards the end of the campaign - then nothing will.

I think it's great that the Sanders campaign was able to pull in so many people who were otherwise not engaged, but I cannot say anything else positive about it at this point - I'm speaking as a former Sanders supporter here, Weaver has poisoned the well, but Sanders is not blame free. It's quite the bad faith act to join the Democratic party ONLY for your campaign, spend all the time and effort to change the direction of the party, and then leave it... Those actions, as well as keeping Weaver on-board, have killed any interest I've had in following what he is doing. I've liked a lot of Sanders ideals, but he has shown incredibly poor judgement and leadership.
posted by MysticMCJ at 9:33 AM on August 24, 2016 [52 favorites]


And, one more fun link from the hill.com: Gary Johnson: Trump's a fascist. This is the kind of truthiness that makes me like the Libertarian a lot more than usual this year.
posted by bearwife at 9:33 AM on August 24, 2016 [11 favorites]


The Sun-Sentinel, a paper from South Florida, noticed the same odd thing that I did: yesterday, Saint Leo University had Clinton up by 14, but today Florida Atlantic University has Trump up by 2. That's a much bigger gap than the margins of error allow, so there's no way they're both right. At least one of those polls has to be massively biased.

The FAU poll for Florida is weird.
Trump leads among white voters 49 to 33 percent, but trails with African Americans 68 to 20 percent, as well as Hispanics 50 to 40 percent
Clinton is beating Trump in three of the four age groups. She leads with 18 to 34 year olds by three points, 38 to 35 percent; 55- to 74-year-old voters 45 to 43 percent; while those over 75 provide her the strongest support at 60 to 34 percent. Trump leads among 35- to 54-year-old voters 53 to 30 percent.
Meanwhile the St Leo poll is giving numbers more in line with what we'd expect.
Trump is appealing to only 23 percent of the Hispanics in the survey; 70 percent support Clinton.
African-American support for Clinton is more than 90 percent.
Trump attracted more support than Clinton among white voters, at 50.6 percent to 36.9 percent for Clinton; still, Orlando predicted that the margin is not large enough to offset Trump’s “massive deficit among minorities.”
Age and party demographics are showing fault lines. Trump is winning voters age 65 and older, with support of 51.8 percent compared to 39.6 percent for Clinton. But Trump polled only 23 percent among voters younger than 35.
I'm at the moment prepared to write off the FAU poll as having been monkeyed with on its demographics until they get a second datapoint.
posted by Francis at 9:35 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


Though anyone who believes he would be, for example, humane in his deportations is a disgracefully easy mark.

My fear is that he'll do something sinister because it's cheap, such as declare that any federal crime committed against an undocumented immigrant will be pardoned. If state or other local governments don't follow suit, he'll fire or transfer all non-military federal employees (eg. shut down all local Social Security offices) from that area. Create a super-hostile environment to encourage self-deportation.
posted by Groundhog Week at 9:35 AM on August 24, 2016


I'd like to bring attention to this video of the Orange One motorboating Giuliani as a drag queen.

This is what happens when conservatives try to write comedy.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:37 AM on August 24, 2016 [7 favorites]


A son of Donald Trump says it would be foolish for his father to release his tax returns.

[...]

His son, Eric Trump, said Wednesday on CNBC not much can be learned from tax returns. He said his father's returns are massive and "you would have a bunch of people who know nothing about taxes" looking through them and making "assumptions on things they know nothing about."

(AP)
posted by salix at 9:38 AM on August 24, 2016 [7 favorites]


My fear is that he'll do something sinister

I am sure of it. Not because it is cheap, but because he has clearly told us about all the sinister things he has planned, most of which involve overt oppression of minorities in every area, and I for one believe him. He is full of hatred.
posted by bearwife at 9:40 AM on August 24, 2016 [10 favorites]


Trump is pushing harder to win New York, which largely rejects him in the polls and hasn't gone for the GOP since 1984. The only possible explanation is that he wants his state, his city, to bow down to him. Personal politics be damned, how can you look at this man with anything but contempt?

He's rallying tonight in the town where I was born, not because he needs to but because he wants cheering white crowds. I'm afraid that a couple of my relatives in particular will go, and that I'll see their faces in photos, and it will break my heart.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:42 AM on August 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


Ben Carson is like the new guy on the heist crew who can't stop using everyone's real name.
posted by EarBucket at 9:43 AM on August 24, 2016 [80 favorites]


Trump Live at 1:00 Eastern. (Currently covering the earthquake)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:46 AM on August 24, 2016


I had not seen this here -- made me snort on my commute this AM -- Frank Bruni in NYT: Hillary Health Shocker!

But while a man’s bank account is personal, a woman’s body is public.

Nice.
posted by slmorri at 9:47 AM on August 24, 2016 [24 favorites]


A son of Donald Trump says it would be foolish for his father to release his tax returns.

Does he realise that this actually sounds bad? Is it just me or does it actually scan more like "Of course he shouldn't release his tax returns, it would ruin his campaign!"
posted by like_neon at 9:48 AM on August 24, 2016 [13 favorites]


ChurchHatesTucker, how did last night's speech compare to normal? I've watched a few rallies but usually read transcripts/recaps and watch highlights. But I did watch all of last night's so I'm wondering how it compared on the crazy scale.
posted by chris24 at 9:51 AM on August 24, 2016


It's a condescending you peons wouldn't understand them.
posted by cmfletcher at 9:51 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


"You learn a lot more when you look at a person’s assets. You know how many hotels we have around the world. You know how many golf courses we have around the world."

According to Trumplogic, reminding people that you own many hotels and golf courses is the important thing, and if you have to wade into a loser of an issue like tax returns to get that point out there, well that's what you have to do. Owning hotels and golf courses is very powerful and impressive and reminding people of that is totally not at all like Elmer Fudd going around talking about owning a mansion and a yacht
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:55 AM on August 24, 2016 [17 favorites]


His son, Eric Trump, said Wednesday on CNBC not much can be learned from tax returns. He said his father's returns are massive and "you would have a bunch of people who know nothing about taxes" looking through them and making "assumptions on things they know nothing about."

Like father, like son, when it comes to delivering the message. As someone who once filed a 300+ page return, I can sympathize, but it's basically impossible to read this as anything other than an admission that his taxes are full of shit that is only technically legal, if that, and looks terrible.
posted by feloniousmonk at 9:56 AM on August 24, 2016 [28 favorites]


ERIC TRUMP: You can't go having people who aren't experts analyzing complex information and making ridiculous assumptions

RUDY GIULIANI: HILLARY CLINTON HAS THE BUBONIC PLAGUE
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:59 AM on August 24, 2016 [67 favorites]


BUBONIC PLAGUE [needs fake tag]
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:01 AM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


Lulz. Literally looking only at the assets side of a ledger and not the liabilities ledger is certainly a sane accounting strategy, believe me.
posted by AndrewInDC at 10:02 AM on August 24, 2016 [14 favorites]


According to their campaign manager of the week, All the Trump voters are actually undercover:
Conway denied on the Channel 4 special “President Trump: Can He Really Win?” that Trump was losing and denounced the polls that showed him down to Hillary Clinton as “cherry-picked polling numbers that are put out there by media outlets that are also bent on his destruction.”
"Which polls?"

"All of them."
posted by kirkaracha at 10:03 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


> Pierce's take on the press coverage of the Clinton Foundation is suitably scathing

More Pierce: Dispatches from the Puke Funnel: The ghoulish bludgeoning of Vince Foster's corpse continues.
posted by homunculus at 10:03 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


"Do they ever have the thought that lying like this, just telling flat out falsehoods will have repercussions?"

For them? It never has before.
posted by Artw at 8:05 AM on August 24


BOOOM! Goes the Dyn-O-Mite!

Any "news outlets" wanna serve them up a steady stream of their nonsense soup and bust on them for an hour? It'd be a tremendous service to the country and to political discourse for generations.

Instant viral legend. Just read from the list of lies and . . . call 'em out. One after another.

Just . . somebody put Trump or Conway on there and . . Have at it.

Anyone? Anyone? CBS? CNN? NYT-hello? Hello?
posted by petebest at 10:03 AM on August 24, 2016 [11 favorites]


I am sure of it. Not because it is cheap, but because he has clearly told us about all the sinister things he has planned, most of which involve overt oppression of minorities in every area, and I for one believe him. He is full of hatred.

I agree. He is cartoonishly hateful. What I am most afraid though, is Trump wrapping his hate in banality. Cartoon villains are easy to spot and combat, banal evil is cloaked in plausible deniability.
posted by Groundhog Week at 10:07 AM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


CPD spokesman Frank Giancamilli said Tuesday that no such conversation took place.

No one in the senior command at CPD has ever met with Donald Trump or a member of his campaign,” Giancamilli said.


Sophie1: I know lying is second nature to these people (KellyAnne Conway, Trump, Bannon, Hope Hicks, etc.) but do they ever think about the long term consequences?

On the Chicago PD discussion, I took it as Donny had talked with some beat cops about their ideas on how to fix things. Of course they don't have upper management support, because you can't amp up racial profiling and warrantless search and seizures in the real world. But that doesn't mean Donnie didn't hear it from Chicago cops.

But Dishonest "Obama and Hillary founded ISIS" Donny doesn't just bend words, he also lies outright. Long term consequences don't matter if you get elected president on those lies. And lies don't matter in reality TV, Donny's ongoing business venture. And if journalists and media-types just gloss over the lies, it doesn't matter if he lies to them either.

Only if the media turns their cameras away and shots off their microphones when he lies does it matter. You can rant and rail against the media all you want, but you don't become president only thorough right-wing(nut) radio interviews and racist rallies. You need the media coverage. As Paul Anka and Lisa Simpson sang, "Just don't look."
posted by filthy light thief at 10:11 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


Post the failure of the latest "pivot" I'm wondering how weakly he'll have to try for the media to declare the next one. Turning up on time and not sounding insane at one speech is the current level of the bar, what ways will they find to lower it?
posted by Artw at 10:11 AM on August 24, 2016


Asking "what are you going to do?" repeatedly when Donny just trots out some "tougher on crime" line. "How?" Maybe Bill softened later on in the segment, but he sounded honestly annoyed that Donnie kept bringing out the same (agreed upon) fearmongering without any solid answers to the problems. Reminding the Fox viewers that Donnie has no actual solutions. Delightful.

Here's my question: what are the next ten words of your answer?
posted by chonus at 10:15 AM on August 24, 2016 [7 favorites]


Why the Clinton Campaign Isn’t Attacking Trump as a Flip-Flopper:
...the main reason the Clinton camp has kept the “flip-flopper” charge on the shelf is because their research shows that voters respond better to the idea that Trump’s motives are subconscious, rather than political. It was, the aide said, the difference between being opportunistic and being “unstable” ― a word used by other Clinton officials in recent interviews to describe the GOP nominee.

“The effectiveness is showing people who he is,” explained Joel Benenson, Clinton’s chief strategist. “When you make bigoted and racist comments, attack war heroes, it shows your lack of character to the American people. And our job is to not let voters forget who this man is and how he has vilified so many different groups of people through this campaign. It is part of what makes him unfit and it is what are explaining in very simple terms.”
posted by kirkaracha at 10:17 AM on August 24, 2016 [19 favorites]


alternate livestream of Tampa Trump rally

Hold music appears to be Ode to Joy. Sweaty dudes in ball caps. Lots of German.

Not chilling at all!
posted by petebest at 10:17 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


I swear they spend a day a week realizing how little their mud is sticking to Hillary, talk about pivoting to a more policy-based campaign, do it for a day, see people not react to it like it's red meat, then switch right back the next day.

I think ultimately that's why they have only a black swan's chance at getting elected.
posted by dw at 10:17 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm at the point where every time I see a reference I don't get I'm like "West Wing," and I'm almost always right.
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:18 AM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


If Wastrel Son (Vampire Movie Extras division) wants to focus on assets, can he explain how the stated valuation of those hotels and golf courses changes drastically based on whether it's for claiming net worth or wriggling out of property taxes?
posted by holgate at 10:18 AM on August 24, 2016 [12 favorites]


I've been considering a couple of points raised in these threads recently: Accountability for the Party of Thurmond (and Trump) and what it would take for me to consider voting for Republican politicians (outside of a Trump-type disaster on the Democratic side). Both of these issues are very tied together for me, and the conclusion that I keep reaching is that accountability for the last 50 years of political strategy is a necessary precursor to being able to seriously consider Republican candidates. In examining these issues, I've come up with a list of actions that I would need to see to start considering the Republican party to not be the PoT(T)

- Cop to the Southern Strategy explicitly and make real efforts to move away from it. Acknowledge the corrosive effect Lee Atwater, Strom Thurmond, and the rest of the Dixiecrats had on the party. The party would also need to acknowledge how Reagan's speech in 1980 at the Neshoba County Fair was racist appeal for the state's rights white supremacist vote. They must demonstrate that they understand that these policies have caused terrible pain, suffering, and economic damage.

- Related to the last point, stop laying claim to being the "Party of Lincoln". It's utterly disingenuous to pass off the home of the Dixiecrats in this way, since the last serious Republican contribution to the advancement of civil rights was in 1965. To be the Party of Lincoln, one must demonstrate such ideals.

- End their constant attempts at suppressing the votes of marginalized groups and campaign seriously for an updated and improved Voting Rights Act that extends the franchise to as many eligible voters as possible, while securing and updating our voting infrastructure.

- Publicly declaring that Reaganite fiscal conservatism as a policy upholds systemic racism and misogyny by disproportionately harming people of color and women, and then channelling that revenue to the ultrawealthy. I would also want to see recognition that Paul Ryan's "budgets" are the work of con-men trying to rob the public of funding. The PoT(T) would also need to unequivocally stop pursuing tax cuts for the ultrawealthy for the foreseeable future as well, as well as demonstrating a real commitment to expanding our society's social safety net.

- End their policy of explicit Christian Supremacy -- i.e., they must end the "religious freedom" dogwhistle tactics, end pushes for creationism to be taught in public schools, and end support for institutionally sanctioned school prayer. Similarly, candidates should no longer express that they will only accept Christian refugees (hiya Bushbush).

- Acknowledge the ruinous cost of the invasion and occupation of Iraq and repudiate the intelligence manipulation and other lies set forth by the Bush Administration.

- End their policy of supporting institutionalized discrimination against LGBTQ+ people, and work to pass the ERA and another constitutional amendment that recognizes LGBTQ+ people's human rights.

- Repudiate the forced birth movement and the violence it inspires. Promote easy access to birth control for all sexually active people and comprehensive, science-based, age appropriate sexual education for all public school students. Stop trying to defund women's healthcare services at Planned Parenthood.

- Be seriously willing to lose the support of the revanchist, white supremacy crowd, even if it costs them elections at the municipal, state, and federal level for years.

- A public reckoning for top party members who enabled Donald Trump including Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Reince Priebus, the entire field of candidates except Lindsey Graham, as well as much of the Senate and House delegations. The party would need to show that racist speech and acts have no place in their party and that supporters of those who make such statements are also unwelcome.

- Acknowledge the hypocrisy of Republican leaders like Newt Gingrinch, Bob Livingston, Strom Thurmond, Larry Craig, admitted serial child molester Dennis Hastert, and the whole cast of jerks who rail against extramarital, non-hetero sex, while also doing these things and/or sexually assaulting children.

- Acknowledge anthropogenic climate change as real, sign on to the Paris Accords, and work to pass much stricters emissions guidelines in Congress.

- Repudiate biased attacks on organized labor, while validating the good work our professional public servants do to keep our country running, including public school educators.

To me, these steps represent a beginning to repairing the damage they have done to our country and social fabric. As is evident, the PoT(T) would have to change just about everything about it personnel and policies for me to consider voting for one of their candidates. However, I refuse to be such a person who doesn't have actionable critiques and a 'nothing-could-ever-convince-me-to-vote-Republican' attitude.

I would love to hear what others consider to be the precursors to considering voting Republican or what dissatisfied Republicans would like to see change.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:18 AM on August 24, 2016 [42 favorites]


If Wastrel Son (Vampire Movie Extras division)

I finally figured out who he really, truly reminds me of, and it's Prince Lotor from Voltron
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:23 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm at the point where every time I see a reference I don't get I'm like "West Wing Hamilton," and I'm almost always right.
posted by mach at 10:24 AM on August 24, 2016 [13 favorites]


On the Chicago PD discussion, I took it as Donny had talked with some beat cops about their ideas on how to fix things.

Donald spends 99.9% of his time either reading stories about himself, watching stories about himself, sending handwritten complaints to press organizations related to stories about himself, tweeting about himself, giving speeches about himself, flying on a Trump plane (with trash chicken), or sleeping in a Trump property. When would he have been talking to a Chicago police officer? Either Trump made this up out of wholecloth or this is his riff on something Rudy told him that was probably far afield from what came out of Donald's mouth.* Donald is a compulsive liar.

*Rudy: "Cops know what to do! We need to trust the cops! Let the cops do what they need to do and that will fix the problem." --> Donald: "A Chicago police officer told me he could end crime in one weekend!"
posted by sallybrown at 10:25 AM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


pretty sure he just watched some Rogue Cop Takes On The Streets movie on one of his flights home
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:29 AM on August 24, 2016 [16 favorites]


What I am most afraid though, is Trump wrapping his hate in banality.

Nazis : banality of evil :: Trump : kitsch of evil
posted by sallybrown at 10:29 AM on August 24, 2016 [31 favorites]


> Hold music appears to be Ode to Joy.

Reverse Ludovico technique, perhaps?
posted by Somn at 10:30 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


pretty sure he just watched some Rogue Cop Takes On The Streets movie on one of his flights home

I revise my take to include the possibility Trump fell asleep during an episode of Chicago PD and dreamt that Sophia Bush passed this message along.
posted by sallybrown at 10:31 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


I would love to hear what others consider to be the precursors to considering voting Republican or what dissatisfied Republicans would like to see change

Former R here. It is hard to imagine re-affiliating myself -- it has been 25 years now -- but some basic prerequisites would include running the racists and sexists out of the party, opening up to moderates and liberals, supporting full and free access to quality education for everyone, taking the lead on clean politics initiatives (eliminate gerrymandering, expand voting, repeal Citizens United, sweeping campaign finance reform), supporting veterans, financial initiatives that favor the middle class and provide real economic opportunity for low income people (versus those that favor the rich and powerful), and strong support for our existing alliances and treaties.
posted by bearwife at 10:33 AM on August 24, 2016 [11 favorites]


Nazis : banality of evil :: Trump : kitsch of evil

Yeah, Trump cannot do banality. Banality isn't gold-plated.
posted by dw at 10:33 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


In examining these issues, I've come up with a list of actions that I would need to see to start considering the Republican party to not be the PoT(T)

at this point you're basically asking them to be democrats

not that you're wrong
posted by murphy slaw at 10:33 AM on August 24, 2016 [29 favorites]


would include running the racists and sexists out of the party, opening up to moderates and liberals, supporting full and free access to quality education for everyone, taking the lead on clean politics initiatives (eliminate gerrymandering, expand voting, repeal Citizens United, sweeping campaign finance reform), supporting veterans, financial initiatives that favor the middle class and provide real economic opportunity for low income people (versus those that favor the rich and powerful), and strong support for our existing alliances and treaties.

so basically most of the Democratic platform?
posted by numaner at 10:36 AM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


RE the Chicago cops, did Trump even make it to Chicago? I thought he called it when he was running late from St Louis? That the shit show inside and outside the U of I stadium came in pretty handy as he wasn't even close to the area.

There's no way he talked to cops, it's not like he was standing around anywhere. He was in a plane or a limo, not shooting the shit with cops about how to make the city safer.
posted by readery at 10:43 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


phearlez: This music video [NSFW lyrics] depicts what I imagine a Trump-led diplomacy session would look like. (Vimeo / YouTube alternate link)

To make a semi-blind link transparent, that's a video of an escalating "discussion" with UN-like multi-country political representatives, set to DJ Shadow ft. Run The Jewels - "Nobody Speak," which includes the line "Flame your crew quicker than Trump fucks his youngest" (lyrics and annotations on Genius.com).
posted by filthy light thief at 10:43 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


at this point you're basically asking them to be democrats

not that you're wrong


I see it more as...asking the Republican party to support and fight for policies that are aligned with my interests.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:44 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Meredith isn't even from Chicago.
posted by AndrewInDC at 10:45 AM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


prize bull octorok: pretty sure he just watched some Rogue Cop Takes On The Streets movie on one of his flights home

I hope it was Maniac Cop 2 (end credits rap tells the whole story)
posted by filthy light thief at 10:46 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


Livestream started. Rudy G gets a raucous ovation. It sounds like booing but is probably "Ruuuuudy", Rudy waddles out, appears to be unlit at the moment.

He knows more about how to make our cities safe than anyone in this country.
posted by petebest at 10:46 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


>I saw this on Twitter and I feel like it is instructive for something

Wow, for the longest time I thought that that was an extremely damning exposé/satire of the alt-right position. But then after a long while I realized no, it's a completely serious self-presentation of their own views.

It just beggars belief that anyone really takes this garbage seriously in the year 2016.
posted by flug at 10:47 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


What's Rudy getting out of this, anyway? The Homeland Security gig?
posted by mochapickle at 10:48 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Rudy's got a book to sell
posted by readery at 10:49 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


"Being mayor of new york is kinda like law enforcement...." -- RG

what is this even supposed to mean?
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:50 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


What's Rudy getting out of this, anyway? The Homeland Security gig?

that sounds suspiciously like work

probably wants a talking heads show on TrumpNet
posted by murphy slaw at 10:50 AM on August 24, 2016 [10 favorites]


There's no way he talked to cops, it's not like he was standing around anywhere. He was in a plane or a limo, not shooting the shit with cops about how to make the city safer.

Perhaps he called into a talk radio show, somewhere in Chicagoland? I dunno, I agree that it's pretty unlikely that he actually was in the same room as a police officer from Chicago.

(Or perhaps he just fell asleep in front of a re-run of "Steven Seagal: Lawman" on late-night cable...)
posted by wenestvedt at 10:51 AM on August 24, 2016


Big hand for Jeff Sessions. Rudy G is scary for being able to speak publicly. Trump has built a tremendous financial empire, but he respects the carpenter, the bricklayer, the plumber. His father taught him that and he never forgot it. (no candlestick maker, SAD)

First to appoint women to high executive positions. Cheers. (no word on the hotness of those women). Rudy's been in law enforcement forever. He knows cops. And cops love Trump. He has the right values. (?) Donnie's been good to America, and we should be thankful that God made it so that we were born in America. USAUSAUSAUSAUSA

A word to the media that's covering this. BOOOOOOOOOO, Do you think Hilary could produce a crowd with this kind of enthusiasm? NOOOOOOOOO I can only think of one enthusiastic crowd for Hillary, a grand jury! ECSTATIC WHOOPING BEAT HER BEAT HER BEAT HER Nonononono, we're going to beat her but blah blah legal stuff blah let us cheer for hate again.
posted by petebest at 10:51 AM on August 24, 2016 [11 favorites]


I've always thought that Republicans over the last decade should have pivoted towards a more pro-union stance using the argument that when employers and employees can bargain on more equal footing (collective bargaining) the need for government intervention (read as "JOB KILLING REGULATIONS") decreases. It would make Trump's economic anti-globalization stances more palatable ("bring back manufacturing" and "globalization killed our unions" rhetoric) and serve as an ideological counter to the left's arguments to increasing the minimum wage.

I don't know how effective those moves would be, but I have republican family members in St. Louis who would be very open to them.
posted by Groundhog Week at 10:54 AM on August 24, 2016 [9 favorites]


The scandal you're watching is going to be like the Teapot Dome scandal (confused murmuring) it's going to be bigger than Watergate! (some cheers), Hundreds of millions of dollars the Clintons have been getting and turning the State Department into a pay-for-play operations (TPM ALERT)

Nixon never destroyed the tapes. He kept them. Clintons must be saying what a jerk that nixon was. To really be a criminal (and ostensibly not get caught) you destroy the evidence. I'm so law enforcy it's scary and I'm outraged at the crime crime crime crime crime . . . . committeed NUMEROUS serial felonies (chanting, booing). I have no doubt she lied to the FBI. She exposed to all of our enemies some of the most secret information we possess which is why it's redacted now, and even Senator Sessions can't get to see it. She exposed that on her server for China, for Russia, for Iran, for ISIS or for any good hacker to get (?)
posted by petebest at 10:55 AM on August 24, 2016 [11 favorites]


Guiliani flat-out calling Hillary a felon.
posted by mochapickle at 10:55 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


Damn, thought I missed it, and it's just getting started. Did Rudy just invoke Teapot Dome?

ChurchHatesTucker, how did last night's speech compare to normal?

It was about twice as long, but otherwise pretty similar to his other teleprompter speeches.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:55 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


While delivering some parts from the machine shop to a supplier this morning, NPR was talking about distracted distracted driving and I didn't want to fall asleep at the wheel, so I switched to the local talky/call-in station, which was taking calls from "deputies" who attended last night's rally, and playing chunks of Burns's speech (which, JFC).

One person who called in was just so, so impressed with how Trump "surrounds himself with such great people" and how that meant that he, too was a great person. He was described as "open" and "genuine."

This caller aslo specifically called out how amazing Rudy G is, and how they, and this is a direct quote, "loved him from 9/11." Like... like it was a show? I mean, I conceded that maybe that meant "from 9/11 until today," or something, but of all the WTFery I heard, somehow that stuck with me the most.
posted by rp at 10:56 AM on August 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


Emily Clark: Elections chair discussed arming civilians at polls
At an Aug. 16 public meeting, Bob Heltman, chair of the Henderson County Board of Elections, discussed the idea of a "posse comitatus," in which civilians would be deputized and armed to serve the sheriff. He said he asked the sheriff whether such a posse could patrol the polls, but he has since discovered the idea is unfeasible.

"'I said 'have you heard of a posse comitatus? What’s the story?''" he said. "Well, the net result of all that is there’s no time to even try to do it.”

Heltman, who was appointed to the board five years ago by the Republican party, said he discussed the idea as part of the board's safety plan to prevent terrorism, but he has abandoned it.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:57 AM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


You go, petebest!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:57 AM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


That We Didn't Start The Movement (American Renaissance 2016) video... what in the fuck.
posted by defenestration at 10:58 AM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


The delusions. The delusions of grandeur. The bullshit. These fucks are as wrong as they are self-important.
posted by defenestration at 10:59 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Rudy drones about the emails . . . Trump likely over NC at this point. Do they think we're stupid?? Yes they do! (Yeah, we do). The Clintons are like a bad child and you don't punish them (Hi daddy). Whitewater (?), a 'compliant press' didn't cover it. BOOOOOO PRESS. Arkansas was like minor league baseball. Now they're getting 30 mil in the major leagues. Dictators are giving them money (Hi Manafort). From places where women are oppressed!! And she's a feminist?! Prove you're a feminist and give the money back. YAAYYY (?) Misogynists paid them too (crowd continues confused murmuring).

Clinton Foundation blah blah blah, State Dept . . blah blah . . . money corrupt lies taxes government felony IRS so many crimes, so many crimes. This Justice Department is a disgrace! Now let's talk about Trump YAAAAAAAAYY
posted by petebest at 10:59 AM on August 24, 2016 [11 favorites]


Donald Trump is making things very awkward for his supporters right now. And it shows.:
SESSIONS: Well, he didn't soften his position on ending the illegality and creating a lawful system that protects the interests of our national security from terrorist and also doesn't flood the labor market with more workers than we've got jobs for. But he did say he would -- as I understand it, I didn’t hear all of what he said because I was behind the stage -- but he did indicate that -- he was -- he would -- did he use the word "soften?"
posted by kirkaracha at 11:00 AM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


Whitewater (?), a 'compliant press' didn't cover it.

especially the liberal New York Times! [eyeroll]
posted by thelonius at 11:01 AM on August 24, 2016


Trump's going to change direction (no shit). Obama's policies are terrible. But Obama's essentially an honest man BOOOOOOOOO okay you can disagree. I know the Clintons are not essentially honest. And now Obamas sad about appointing HC.

Trump will make sure that he appoints honest people (HAHAHAA. Oh Rudy. You.) They'll be the best people for the job. Nobody knows more how to create more and better jobs. Economy's terrible. Job loss. Noone gets raises anymore. Trump will fix all the trade deals USAUSAUSAUSA that will bring lots of jobs back. Reduce taxes HOORAY for you!! YAAAAY He's going to give you money, she'll take it. But Trump will give you money and you can buy more things. Slashing corporate tax and the corporations will move back from overseas. America First (again, sir, I wouldn't advise . . ) USAUSAUSAUSAUSA
posted by petebest at 11:03 AM on August 24, 2016 [10 favorites]


Rudy's speech is so disjointed that the crowd hardly knows what to think until he repeats the hot -buttons: blah blah blah radical islamic terrorists! (cheers) blah blah blah bring jobs back to the US! (cheers) blah blah blah the police need love! (cheers) all the parts in between (crickets)
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:05 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


HC wants to reduce our military. How can we do that when terrer! ISLAMIC! Terrer! Fear! We're big and strong and will save everyone. No timetables for withdrawl (weird, ok). If Trump draws a line . .hooo boy lookout. He'll build up our Army, our Navy, and stop China from expanding in the South China Sea. He'll build up all our forces so we can fight these wars. And he'll restore (???) our Intelligence services. He'll do all that.

And he'l make the cops feel loved. YAAAYY So important to Rudy, long line of cops, he knows cops, September 11, he knows cops and their fear, danger shooting, fear, fire, unknown, fear, my family was firefighters. Donald Trump is pro-police and HC is anti-police. She finds them guilty immediately like the Baltimore police officers BOOOOOO and then when they're found not guilty she never apologizes!
posted by petebest at 11:07 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


An anecdote for the good of the order: I was chatting with my neighbor yesterday, a retired guy in his early 70s. He's a terrific neighbor and a super nice, cheerful person who cares about his neighborhood and is fair-minded and pretty thoughtful, too. I like him a lot, even though we would not click socially at all in any other context.

Normally, when we have front yard chit-chat it's pretty banal and jovial, or about local stuff, but yesterday somehow we stumbled into politics, and he mentioned Donald Trump and I just thought 'oh no please please I like you please don't tell me how awesome Trump is.' He said that he really liked "that Trump fella" early on because he "wasn't like those other folks" and "tells it like it is."

At this point I'm bracing myself to be very disappointed at the next thing he says, but then he surprises me and says "but now, the things he's been sayin'.....I tell ya, that fella, he ain't like you and me. He doesn't care about nobody, he's just not normal. I don't know what's wrong with him, I don't know what you'd call it, but somethin' ain't right with him." And he scowled and shook his head in the kind of clear indication of disappointed judgment that only a person who has worked hard and done the right thing their whole lives can really credibly muster, and it was devastating to see. Had I been on the receiving end of that disappointment I would, truly, be seriously reconsidering my person and my life choices because, wow, if that guy thinks I'm a horrible person then I am most definitely being a horrible person by any metric.

So then he and I chatted politics--gently--for a few minutes, and it was alright, and I'm still friends and on great terms with my neighbor. I hesitate to view him as synecdoche, but truly, if he is any indication of where Trump's potential 'salt-of-the-earth,' not-college-educated white voter is, Trump is no longer even persuading those open (and susceptible) to his rhetoric.
posted by LooseFilter at 11:09 AM on August 24, 2016 [87 favorites]


Whitewater (?), a 'compliant press' didn't cover it.

Did I wake up in some other universe again? The only part of Whitewater the press didn't cover very much was the part at the end where the final reports came in and found exactly nothing.
posted by dnash at 11:09 AM on August 24, 2016 [43 favorites]


Everyone should go register voters! Are you going to do that YAAAY are we going to turn this enthusiasm into votes less-YAAAAY, HC can't do this! And now . . . ladies and gentlemen . . . Donald J Trump (Ride of th Valkyries, ffs)
posted by petebest at 11:10 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump enters! I was so hoping he'd motorboat Rudy right there in Tampa.
posted by mochapickle at 11:10 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


> Whitewater (?), a 'compliant press' didn't cover it.

I must be hallucinating having read so much press coverage twenty years ago I could still summarize the non-story for you if I absolutely had to.
posted by languagehat at 11:10 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


Donald J Trump (Ride of th Valkyries, ffs)

That's the guy streaming. The crowd heard "Proud to be an American"
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:12 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


Oh, one other sort of associated thing, all these pissed off Trump fans reminds me what we lost with the decline of unions throughout the US. If this kind of tribalism had been able to find root in shared economic connections, where these guys might actually see commonalities across racial lines, then their anger might have been more directed at those who are actually keeping them down

I've always thought that Republicans over the last decade should have pivoted towards a more pro-union stance using the argument that when employers and employees can bargain on more equal footing (collective bargaining) the need for government intervention (read as "JOB KILLING REGULATIONS") decreases.


Unions are totally consistent with libertarian-flavored Republican philosophy, I think. This would be a really smart move for the Republicans to make -- to try to pick off some of the unions from the Dems, maybe by running with Trump's anti-globalization message (minus the ridiculous details).

This would also be a really smart time for union organizers or would-be union organizers to make a push to increase membership. Unions make a lot more sense as a response to the problems that Trump supporters actually have than supporting Trump does.

If the Republicans were smart, this could actually happen. We could get a new union movement and a re-alignment of the parties... But I don't think the current Republican leadership is smart in the right ways...
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:13 AM on August 24, 2016 [9 favorites]


What a crowd. Beautiful. What a crowd. Thank you. I'm glad to be here in . . . . TAMPA YAAAAY Florida is my second home (oh that's nice) so many incredible people. We're going to have to work hard to win the white house. Florida University poll, we're leading by 2 points (umm . . nnoooo?) Our vicotry will be a victory for the people. for. the. people. It won't be for the pundits, for the special interests, for the failed politicians (well, no that makes sense) it'll be for YOu. YAAAAY. Victory for jobs jobs jobs (hello Reagan) companies won't leave our country so easily, won't be so easy for them. A victory for American independence, so important. We'll reject the failures of (reading the teleprompter, AA, Hispanic, all children, peace, safety, very non-Trump wordery)

Depeleted military, oh we love them so, so depleted. We need them about the most ever, and nobody's better than our military people. we're going to take care of the great veterans. we're going to. We're unleashing energy, law & order, government will be honest once again (confused cheering)
posted by petebest at 11:14 AM on August 24, 2016 [11 favorites]


We'll cut taxes dramatically, and meelions of new jobs to our . . shores. And that's something I look so forward to doing, no one can do jobs like Trump, like the jobs we have on the beach, so many jobs in Florida, and those people love what we've done for them.

HC wants to pass terrible trade deals, she wants to pass that. We'll totally renegotiate NAFTA, cancel TPP and protect every last American job. They're not going to disappear from you anymore. You'll make more wages. They're getting older, working harder, and making less - not going to happen that way folks, not going to happen. I'm working harder too (it's about you Don) HC wants to destroy small businesses. Regulations bad, mmmkay. Job killing regulations (Hi Dubya), safety, a little environmental protection but they've gone insane. businesses cant compete and you're losing your jobs. WE'l create so many new jobs. I'll be the greatest jobs president that GOD EVER CREATED (wow Don, use that G word) TrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrump
posted by petebest at 11:18 AM on August 24, 2016 [12 favorites]


i will be the greatest jobs president that god ever created. we are going to do a great job on jobs.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 11:18 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


Tie report: A good 4-5 inches past the belt.
posted by mochapickle at 11:18 AM on August 24, 2016 [30 favorites]


are there miners and steelworkers in florida?
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:21 AM on August 24, 2016


All religions need to vote Nov. 8 and there's only one person you can vote for, Donald Trump. HC wants to put miners and steelworkers out of work BOOOOOOO were going to lift restricitons on all American energy, foreigners are cheating, they're dumping all over this country, they want to put steel out of business not gonna happen not gonna happen.

Obamacare is Venezuela, not working, doesn't work. We'll repeal - this is so important - are you ready - we're going to repeal Obamacare! YAAAAYY that always gets the most increidbile applause. Your premius are going up, its a disaster, Texas has 50% increase going through Blue Cross Blue Sheild, it's not going to work, it's dead no matter whos president, she's going to raise taxes, we can come up with a plan that will be better. And we will do that.
posted by petebest at 11:21 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


like the jobs we have on the beach

Yes because "cabana boy" is so many people's highest aspiration and a sure shot at The American Dream.
posted by dnash at 11:21 AM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


All of this talk of ties reminds me of a friend who calls them "crotch arrows."
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:22 AM on August 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


Trump's Mar-a-Lago hires hundreds of foreign workers :
The U.S. Department of Labor has confirmed to CNN that between 2013 and fall 2015, Trump's Mar-a-Lago club [in Florida] posted 250 seasonal job openings and filled just 4 of those jobs with American workers. The club requested the rest of the staff be temporarily imported through the Federal government's H-2B visa process. Basically, Mar-a-Lago brings in its seasonal staff from overseas.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:22 AM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


HC trapping children in schools (?) we should have merit pay for teachers (great) we'll put kids on the ladder of success, a good education and then - a great job. This is so important for our inner cities. Democrats have ruined them. 4 in 10 AA children live in poverty. 58% not employed. 2700 shaet people in Chicago. Washington, shootings, Baltimore. Democrats, running these for over 100 years. They only produce more poverty, crime and joblessness and broken homes all over the place (hi Ivana). I say vote Trump.
posted by petebest at 11:23 AM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


aaaaaannnd looks like my feed stalled. Oh well - it's teleprompter Don anyway. Not so good folks, not so good. Not so good.
posted by petebest at 11:24 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


put miners and steelworkers out of work

for fuck's sake, there's like ten of them left
posted by murphy slaw at 11:24 AM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


stream quit here. grrr.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 11:24 AM on August 24, 2016


petebest: "Nixon never destroyed the tapes."

*cough* eighteen and a half minutes *cough*
posted by mhum at 11:25 AM on August 24, 2016 [13 favorites]


The youtube feed took a dive.
posted by cmfletcher at 11:25 AM on August 24, 2016


Yes because "cabana boy" is so many people's highest aspiration and a sure shot at The American Dream.

If someone wants to be a cabana boy they should be able to be a cabana boy and it should offer them a shot at The American Dream. If you can't afford to pay a cabana boy a living wage your guests will be fetching their own margaritas. Nobody should be forced to live in poverty because a hotel wants to offer a service at far below a fair value.
posted by Talez at 11:26 AM on August 24, 2016 [20 favorites]


Fox 10 feed
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:26 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Found this alternate stream
posted by narwhal at 11:27 AM on August 24, 2016


and that 58% unemployment figure has been roundly rejected as nonsense as it includes full-time students (including high school!) not looking for work.

this kind of politics is only possible because the right has carefully extracted their electorate from existing in a world where facts matter
posted by murphy slaw at 11:28 AM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


What's Rudy getting out of this, anyway? The Homeland Security gig?

People are talking about Rudy Giuliani again
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:28 AM on August 24, 2016 [31 favorites]


That We Didn't Start The Movement (American Renaissance 2016) yt video... what in the fuck.

I watched most of it and I have no idea what's going on. That's so inside tinfoil helmet stuff (as well as just badly done) that I honestly don't know what their position is. Are they against some things? Are they conservatives? I caught "uncucked", which I wasn't sure what...I mean I guess I'm glad they've got that sorted out...

But the 15 year old singing is so bad, that's really not helping whatever their message is.
posted by bongo_x at 11:37 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


What's Rudy getting out of this, anyway? The Homeland Security gig?

People are talking about Rudy Giuliani again

People are Rudy Giuliani is talking about Rudy Giuliani again, anyway....
posted by wenestvedt at 11:41 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


Florida University poll, we're leading by 2 points (umm . . nnoooo?)
Maybe referencing this Florida Atlantic University poll?
posted by mefireader at 11:41 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


All religions need to vote Nov. 8 and there's only one person you can vote for, Donald Trump.

Going forward whenever someone liveblogs a Trump speech I'm just going to go ahead and mentally replace "Trump" with "#1 quidnunc kid". I seriously thought this comment was from them until I got to the word "Donald".
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:43 AM on August 24, 2016 [29 favorites]


I caught "uncucked"

oh my God I hate filking
posted by Countess Elena at 11:44 AM on August 24, 2016 [10 favorites]


"The world is laughing at us."

Not for the reason you think, Donny.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:47 AM on August 24, 2016 [16 favorites]


SweatyTrimp is one of the worst Trimps.
posted by cashman at 11:54 AM on August 24, 2016


"We've beaten Elton John's records" (for attendance)

WTF?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:54 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


Last night I read this piece by George Saunders in The New Yorker. He went to a bunch of Trump rallies, and wrote this "who are they?" summation of his experience. There are a lot of easy slams in the piece, but also something I found worth ruminating on. He says that he saw little evidence that economic woes, as are often blamed for Trump support, are not high on the minds of most Trump rally-goers. He notes that plenty of them are pretty well-heeled and most are employed; they actually aren't the people most harshly and directly suffering from economic inequality. Nor are they simplistically and solely driven by racial and ethnic fears. What he theorizes is that these are people who share the feeling that there is some fundamental order to the society that has decayed, and that this is threatening to what they deeply value. Yes, it links to race, economy, etc. But it isn't only about that. It's about being secure about one's place in society and feeling assured there is a fundamental fairness and structure to the way things happen.

Now it's no trouble at all to poke holes in their perceptions. For one thing, the order they are missing (whether they ever felt it existed, or just heard about it from older people) was largely built on oppression. Our society might have been a lot more controlled in the 30s or 50s, but there was a lot more discrimination, sexism, lynching, etc. But I thought it was pretty insightful to realize that loss of order is the basic anxiety they are responding to, and they reason they love an authoritarian voice who seems to be promising to restore order. This also points up to me how keenly people are feeling their loss of privilege. Their kind of orderly society is no longer at the center of the American project, and they know it, and that's what makes them angry. That's why they speak in such vague terms about "the way things are going" and characterize the Obama administration as this evil degenerative force - it's just that they see society changing in ways that really undermine their sense of security, and blame a liberal agenda for it.

For me, I feel like this is an important key. Obviously we've made a lot of social progress and become a more tolerant society, recent violence notwithstanding. But we have somehow failed to take everyone with us in understanding that that is on the whole a good thing. We have a large swath of the electorate that is not convinced the diversity is good thing, that social liberalism is a positive, that it should be okay to love who you want and live the way you want, even if your family structure doesn't look like theirs. They never believed it in their hearts, and now they say "Trump is speaking for us" because a person with a giant microphone is now saying it directly: we don't like the way society is now, we are threatened and we want things to become predictable, constrained, clear, black-and-white, and safe again.

It's interesting too for me to realize that this has to have been the bulk of the GOP base for a long time. Like, this isn't the sudden appearance of 40% of new Americans who never voted before or were previously alienated from politics. These were always the people voting GOP, because even though the party dogwhistled most of it and weren't as openly vehement and derisive and racist, the audience correctly perceived that the regressive social agenda was happening in that party and not the other. This is the same GOP base as ever, despite the flight of the GOP elite who never actually cared much about them. They have just realized that the elite never really did anything in their favor anyway (as many predicted would happen even a decade ago) - it's just that they didn't respond by moving to the center or left, but by moving to a loud authoritarian populist who promises to restore the childlike sense of order and fairness people are wishing for.
posted by Miko at 11:54 AM on August 24, 2016 [66 favorites]


NYT: Donald Trump’s Description of Black America Is Offending Those Living in It

"Some African-Americans who have been listening say the picture Mr. Trump has been painting of black America — a nightmare of poverty, death and danger, brought about by failed Democratic policies and leadership — is unrecognizable."
posted by mochapickle at 11:55 AM on August 24, 2016 [14 favorites]


would this be a good place to say "I hate Donald Trump"?

jes askin'

if not, i can do this later...preferably before 11/8
posted by lampshade at 11:55 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


I do believe Trump is going to create jobs. I believe that he will make the military enlistment numbers higher. Of course I believe he'll do that one of two ways:

1) The draft. Since people aren readily volunteering for the armed forces they will be forced and look at that now you're all working.

2) Run the economy so far into the ground that the only people hiring are the armed forces because they're now invading Mexico. Oh look at that the military is bigger and you're all working.

/sarcasm
posted by JakeEXTREME at 11:57 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


"We've beaten Elton John's records" (for attendance)

WTF?


the dog whistles are evolving so fast I can't keep up
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:59 AM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


the picture Mr. Trump has been painting of black America

If you can paint the picture without it taking you hours, you've failed. As has been said like a million times, black people are not a monolith.
posted by cashman at 12:00 PM on August 24, 2016 [12 favorites]


What's this about beating Elton John's dog?
posted by bongo_x at 12:08 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


And "You can't always get what you want."
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:09 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


That We Didn't Start The Movement (American Renaissance 2016) yt video... what in the fuck.

Fucking white people jfc. I can't believe I watched that. I can't believe it exists.
posted by dis_integration at 12:09 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


I do believe Trump is going to create jobs.

Step 1: Make unemployment illegal.
Step 2: Fill Prisons with Unemployed Persons
Step 3: Pay Prisoners $1 a Day to Build New Jails and Relieve Prison Overcrowding
Step 4: Pay Prisoners $1 a Day to Build Wall Around Entire US Border.
etc.
posted by zarq at 12:09 PM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]




I follow Cher on Twitter and it's all I can do not to respond to her tweets with "MOM", like the youths do.
posted by pxe2000 at 12:18 PM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


The Great Wall of Trumpa.
posted by y2karl at 12:18 PM on August 24, 2016


Step 3: Pay Prisoners $1 a Day to Build New Jails and Relieve Prison Overcrowding
Step 4: Pay Prisoners $1 a Day to Build Wall Around Entire US Border.


And since they're getting paid, they're no longer unemployed. Problem solved!
posted by rp at 12:22 PM on August 24, 2016


And since they're getting paid, they're no longer unemployed. Problem solved!

Exactly.
posted by zarq at 12:23 PM on August 24, 2016


But I thought it was pretty insightful to realize that loss of order is the basic anxiety they are responding to, and they reason they love an authoritarian voice who seems to be promising to restore order.

I'm reminded of the description of the Deep South from Collin Woodard's American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America (previously), which asserted a strong belief in social order and power.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:29 PM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


that Am Ren video. good lord, am i going to have to arm myself to protect myself against these people?
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 12:29 PM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


Trump's style has more to do with "making up numbers on the spot without knowing any facts" than it is "making something technically true", though.
posted by interrobang at 12:30 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh so hey - it's a long thread, but are you guys aware of the Commander In Chief forum IAVA is putting on? Supposedly Clinton and Trump are both confirmed. (It's in NYC).
posted by corb at 12:30 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Did the wall get mentioned this time?
posted by Devonian at 12:32 PM on August 24, 2016


Miko: It's interesting too for me to realize that this has to have been the bulk of the GOP base for a long time. Like, this isn't the sudden appearance of 40% of new Americans who never voted before or were previously alienated from politics. These were always the people voting GOP, because even though the party dogwhistled most of it and weren't as openly vehement and derisive and racist, the audience correctly perceived that the regressive social agenda was happening in that party and not the other. This is the same GOP base as ever, despite the flight of the GOP elite who never actually cared much about them.

I'm pleased that this knowledge is spreading. That the PoT base has been like this for decades is something I, and many others, have felt and known all our lives. It's pretty telling that apparently, 47% of Republican voters want their party to be more like Trump than Paul Ryan. Hate is, and has been, one of the primary motivators of the Republican party electorate since 1964.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:36 PM on August 24, 2016 [20 favorites]


I am now on the Trump campaign mailing list at a mostly unused email address (that forwards to my main one). I don't even know where they would have gotten it unless they are buying commercial spam lists. While it's a public email address (I've at points had it on my website's 'about' page), it's not my current one and it would never have been used to signup on any conservative site or cause or organization.
posted by R343L at 12:37 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Yep, the wall did get mentioned. And this time, he also mentioned that there would be extra anti-tunneling security.
posted by mochapickle at 12:37 PM on August 24, 2016


Build the dome!
posted by bongo_x at 12:38 PM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


ah, so that's how the miners are going to get good jobs again. I for one look forward to the subterrane futurewars in the interdiction tunnels
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:39 PM on August 24, 2016 [24 favorites]


And this time, he also mentioned that there would be extra anti-tunneling security.

"No, the mole people will be genetically engineered to hate the sun."
"What if they rise up during the night?"
"That's when we unleash the tigers with night-vision goggles."
[fake]
posted by Etrigan at 12:39 PM on August 24, 2016 [9 favorites]


Next up on tonight's B-movie triple feature: El Trumpo vs. El Chapo.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:40 PM on August 24, 2016


Fucking white people jfc.

I don't know how to react to this. I mean, I don't want to stick up for those assholes and I don't want to drop a "not all white people" comment but I get sad and angry every time I see it. I would appreciate it if we could refer to "Trump supporters" rather than "white people" because white people are not a monolith. I'm asking as a favor, not because I think I have some right to ask.

I want to be sensitive to everyone who isn't like me and yet it feels like I'm getting slapped in the face every time a comment refers to "white people" as short-hand for "Trump supporters" or "crazy racist people" or something and my cheeks are pretty raw. If the consensus is that I need to keep turning my cheeks, I will, I'd just rather not have to.

What's the right thing here?
posted by VTX at 12:41 PM on August 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


What's the right thing here?

To post derail-inducing questions like this in MetaTalk, not here.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:45 PM on August 24, 2016 [28 favorites]


What's the right thing here?

Say to yourself, "You know, all in all, white people have it pretty good in today's America, and I don't need to get back this single microaggression point to restore myself to balance," and move on with your day. It works pretty well for me.
posted by Etrigan at 12:46 PM on August 24, 2016 [84 favorites]


That We Didn't Start The Movement (American Renaissance 2016) yt video... what in the fuck.

Probably the least significant part, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around the old guy filmed in front of a green screen so they could insert... a boring bookshelf. Why bother with the green screen? Why not use literally anything else for a more interesting backdrop?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:47 PM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


What's the right thing here?

I would hazard: take a deep breath, get hold of some reading material, pay attention to the stories of PoC, think, and don't say anything until you are pretty confident about what's involved in allyship. And better still to wait. And listen. And wait some more.
posted by jokeefe at 12:48 PM on August 24, 2016 [11 favorites]


I don't know how to react to this.

here, this is how
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:49 PM on August 24, 2016 [14 favorites]


And Etrigan's advice is practical and workable. Would recommend.
posted by jokeefe at 12:49 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh so hey - it's a long thread, but are you guys aware of the Commander In Chief forum IAVA is putting on? Supposedly Clinton and Trump are both confirmed. (It's in NYC).

We talked about it in an earlier thread.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:55 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


That We Didn't Start The Movement (American Renaissance 2016) yt video... what in the fuck.
Fucking white people jfc. I can't believe I watched that. I can't believe it exists.


I watched it, and yeah, wtf, but I do like that it's honest about being racist fucks. At least they're not trying to pass it off as something noble.
posted by signal at 12:56 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


But the thing is... it IS white people who are the group causing the alt-right problem right now. I'm sorry that it makes some people sad and angry to realize that there are white people out there who are some of the worst people on the planet, but surprise, it's true. But... why are you taking it personally? If you're not a racist piece of shit who espouses those views, why are you letting people's disgust with that crowd offend you on such a level that you feel compelled to make mention of how unfair it is? Can you sit with that feeling, unpack it, and apply it to other groups who have been deeply maligned? Can you use that feeling to deepen your empathy for people of color who have been slapped with that kind of treatment for decades longer than you ever have?
posted by palomar at 1:00 PM on August 24, 2016 [42 favorites]


But honestly, jfc ?

I mean, Jesus Fuckin' H. Christ, what is up with that ? It just does not scan.
posted by y2karl at 1:00 PM on August 24, 2016


and yet it feels like I'm getting slapped in the face every time a comment refers to "white people" as short-hand for "Trump supporters" or "crazy racist people" or something and my cheeks are pretty raw

Hey there welcome to the microaggression party! Some people have been having their cheeks slapped raw for every single day of their long lives, and their parents and grandparents and ancestors before them. I would recommend using this as an empathy exercise.
posted by sallybrown at 1:00 PM on August 24, 2016 [25 favorites]


Oh yeah? You know who else was . . waitaminit
posted by petebest at 1:02 PM on August 24, 2016


As a cis-het white male, I can't even begin to get offended when people moan about:

1. white people
2. white men
3. white heteros
4. pretty much anything gendered/sexually/racially aimed at me.

I've even started calling things that might otherwise be described as "lame" or "privileged" or "racist" etc. as "so white."

I understand that all of this is incredibly sticky & that even if I'm ok with it, it doesn't mean other folks who might identify as I do are..

I just personally can't even begin to take offense at any vitriol aimed at my "group" because as far as I'm concerned, the vast majority of "us" have earned it. We may not deserve it, but we earned it. I think I'm ok with it for no other reason than maybe finally a little bit of "oh, so this is how it feels to be unfairly stigmatized" might creep into "our" awareness.

I (personally) take great pains to embody #notall[x] but I nonetheless posit that by shouting that too loudly, the vast majority of my ilk get to pat themselves on the back & congratulate themselves for being above these pesky generalizations. It seems to me that "we" should shut up & listen for a while before getting too bent out of shape that it's finally happening to "us."

The best analog I can think of (maybe someone else can help me identify a better encapsulation) is Affirmative Action. It can be argued that because it's "bigotry aware" there's a degree of "bigotry" intertwined in the mechanism. By asserting that x% of new hires or student population, etc. should match some target demographic, necessarily a bias is instituted that favors the minority over the majority. Yes, in a perfect world, no one would see gender/sexuality/religion/etc. but because we don't live in a perfect world, we create a half-measure like AA to try & compensate for institutional disadvantages in order to bring about an end result that is fair. So I guess I'm saying that in a similar way, maybe just letting people moan that "white people this" and "white dudes that" can be informative & instructive toward a more fair end result, even if there is a degree of bias in the statement itself.

Or not. I have no doubt that someone can completely school me on why I'm wrong (if I'm wrong [as I tend to be until corrected- then I'm right again!]). Go metafilter! :)

[Please move this to MeTa if appropriate. It seems relevant given the nature of Trump & his primary base, but I defer to the mods. Thanks for all you do.]
posted by narwhal at 1:03 PM on August 24, 2016 [13 favorites]


OK, well, this derail isn't exactly weird but it is a derail and maybe we should take it MeTa before it gets too unwieldy?
posted by Tevin at 1:05 PM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


But honestly, jfc ?

I mean, Jesus Fuckin' H. Christ, what is up with that ? It just does not scan.


Jesus Fried Chicken
posted by rocketman at 1:07 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Jesus Fried Chicken

Jesus Fish n Chips. It's right there in one of the miracles.
posted by Etrigan at 1:10 PM on August 24, 2016 [18 favorites]


I prefer PopeEyes.
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:11 PM on August 24, 2016 [11 favorites]


JFC Fuller?
posted by Artw at 1:15 PM on August 24, 2016


I don't agree that it's entirely a derail. If we're here to talk about Trump, whiteness is front and center. He's brought the disease of whiteness back into the political mainstream, and it's really the worst part about him.

I guess I really meant to say: fucking cultural concept of "whiteness". There would be no Donald Trump, Candidate for President if we had already rid the world of the scourge of whiteness. We should abolish the white race and by that I don't mean round up caucasians and shoot them, but get rid of the virus implanted in people's minds that white people own the world, that they are what is normal, and that their position of privilege should be maintained at all costs, and at the expense of those who are defined as other only in relation to whiteness. I think people should feel bad to be white because being born white means getting to trample on the rights of others by default.

PS. Popeyes is the best, and maybe I should've said 'smdh' instead of 'jfc'. It's what all the kids are saying these days.
posted by dis_integration at 1:15 PM on August 24, 2016 [26 favorites]


You are what you eat, fried dinosaur.

"Get this mothaf***in chicken off this mothaf***in plane!"
posted by petebest at 1:18 PM on August 24, 2016


I'm at the point where every time I see a reference I don't get I'm like "West Wing Hamilton," and I'm almost always right.

If you were familiar with both, you'd know that Hamilton is basically just historical West Wing fanfic with an obsession with making things rhyme.
posted by zachlipton at 1:18 PM on August 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


Popeyes is the best

Even the biscuits?

"Get this mothaf***in chicken off this mothaf***in plane!"

But biscuits are ok, right?
posted by kingless at 1:21 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Per Miko's comment, I've started replacing "Law and Order" with "Power and Privilege".
posted by erisfree at 1:21 PM on August 24, 2016 [14 favorites]


But... why are you taking it personally?

Me, I'm not taking it personally at all, and it doesn't hurt me, that's what privilege is.

But I think it's an incredibly bad tactic and actively hurts the cause it's meant to move forward. Dividing people in the name of uniting people isn't a great idea.
posted by bongo_x at 1:22 PM on August 24, 2016 [7 favorites]


Diehard Trump Voters Confirm Rest Of Nation Should Stop Wasting Time Trying To Reach Them [onion]

‘If Anything Could Change Our Minds, It Would’ve Happened By Now,’ Say Candidate’s Supporters
posted by petebest at 1:22 PM on August 24, 2016 [20 favorites]


Did I wake up in some other universe again? The only part of Whitewater the press didn't cover very much was the part at the end where the final reports came in and found exactly nothing.
posted by dnash at 2:09 PM on August 24

I feel this way about his entire speeches; I think they've gotten worse. He started with Crooked, Lyin Hillary and now she is so corrupt that she has become unrecognizable. Her eMails were apparently chock-full of deep, dark secrets that now all of our worst enemies know. She and Bill must have paid the FBI not to throw them both in prison. And don't get me started about the Clinton Foundation. Obama is sad he ever had her in his cabinet because she ran the State department like a third world country but that's nothing because Obamacare is killing people. We are a sad loser country that only imports drugs and there are no small businesses left because they have all been killed off by regulations.

Meanwhile Hillary doesn't have the temperament to be President, she doesn't look Presidential, and she is a sick frail old lady who wants to open up the borders so immigrants stream in and take every one of your jobs. And she is a bigoted racist who hasn't done anything for African-Americans but along with her fellow Democrats have made Black communities the worst hell holes on earth where you can't walk down the sidewalk without getting shot.

I swear it is like he watched a post-apocalyptic movie just before bed, had a fever dream, and now he just babbles nonsense. What is astonishing is I don't think we have ever had a high level politician lie so much and yet receive so much adulation for it.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:24 PM on August 24, 2016 [25 favorites]


Even the biscuits?

ESPECIALLY the biscuits.

damn you I'm trying to lose this Trump-induced stress weight
posted by sallybrown at 1:28 PM on August 24, 2016 [9 favorites]


Popeyes is the best

Even the biscuits?


Oh, indeed.
posted by dis_integration at 1:29 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


The biggest scandal of the election might be Donald Trump’s definition of a “hot celebrity.
Speaking in Tampa, the Republican presidential nominee said, “The only people enthusiastic about [Hillary Clinton’s] campaign are Hollywood celebrities—in many cases celebrities that aren’t very hot anymore.” This is an almost classic case of an insult that goes one step too far, like the old joke that “the food at that restaurant is terrible and the portions are too small.” Is Clinton’s problem that she has only celebrity enthusiasts? Or that her celebrity enthusiasts aren’t very hot?

Trump’s remarks also remind us of his habit of projection. After all, at the Republican National Convention he brought out celebrity endorsers like Willie “Duck Dynasty” Robertson, Scott “Joanie Loves Chachi” Baio, and Antonio “Miscellaneous Soap Operas” Sabato Jr
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:30 PM on August 24, 2016 [33 favorites]


Sadly, his new Machiavellis seem to be fairly sucessful at conditioning his teleprompting, and getting him to throw in peace and love a lot more. He's less entertaining, more W-grade batshit than Trump Classic.
Sad.
posted by petebest at 1:32 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


We should abolish the white race and by that I don't mean round up caucasians and shoot them, but get rid of the virus implanted in people's minds that white people own the world, that they are what is normal, and that their position of privilege should be maintained at all costs, and at the expense of those who are defined as other only in relation to whiteness.

I can get on board with just about all of that, but when you have to qualify "abolish" a race with "I don't mean" rounding people of that race up and shooting them, I contend that the use of "abolish" as a shorthand is not the best choice.
posted by tclark at 1:34 PM on August 24, 2016 [21 favorites]


I'm just not explaining myself well. I'm not offended really and I certainly don't take it personally. I'm totally aware that it's the reality for every minority group. And that's why I'm so hesitant to ask about it. I'm usually just fine reacting like Homer Simpson ("He's right, we're so lame!"). But we're not talking about being lame here, we're talking about supporting a racist shitbucket who I'm convinced, if he came into power, would start WW3 with the USA playing the part of the axis. The stakes are a lot higher as well as the frequency and that has made it more difficult to deal with (and I'm sure it's just a taste of what it's like to be a PoC right now). I lay the blame for that at the feet of Trump and the dipshits who support him, not at all on anyone here.

And it's only a bare majority of white people that support him according to the polls. So it seems like it's not even very accurate. It's totally not cool for me treat other minority groups like a bag of stereotypes so I think it follows that it's not ever cool. That's probably just the little bit of internal bias I have left whispering lies in my ear and if so, I'm fine with that. Sometimes I need an outside perspective on things like this.

I've been told to keep turning my cheeks so keep turning my cheeks I shall. Derail over. Thank you all.
posted by VTX at 1:35 PM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


Yeah, I don't think the jfc white people thing is entirely a derail either for the same reasons dis_integration brings up.

I'm really struck by how my parents, who weren't exactly woke and who didn't pay overmuch attention to race issues, have just this past year or so, started to notice and call out the toxicity of whiteness. We're Afghan, but we've generally been able to pass and have benefited from some of the privileges of whiteness: my parents have accents, but my mom especially sounds vaguely European; they're pale and don't look much like any average American's conception of Afghan or Middle Eastern. Their names are the thing that mark them as immediately Other. But for the most part, immigrant has been a more useful identification for them than white vs. not white, and America's strong shared narrative of being a nation of immigrants has made them feel welcome and valued in this country.

But now, they're visibly taken aback by the demonstrations of toxic white supremacy embodied in the Trump campaign and its supporters. "They're all racists," says my mom with a sort of wondering horror. "I hadn't realized so many Americans were still so racist." I'm like, "yeah mom, where have you been?" but I can see why this is only something she's noticing now. She had accepted, I think, the story America tells itself about what a triumph the civil rights movement had been and how it meant that racism is over, basically. And after nearly two terms of not being assassinated, she had relaxed a little about her worries over the virulent racism Obama faced. She and my dad are seeing something different, now, and it's disturbing them.

It's gone similarly for a lot of the rest of my family who had previously been comfortable in the parts of white privilege they could claim. My uncle, a successful doctor with his own practice who's always been a cheerful Democrat but not overly political, now says "I'm brown and proud," and calls people out when they parrot Trumpian talking points about refugees and immigrants. My aunt who used to wrinkle her nose and say stuff like, "you know, our people are from the Aryan plateau which means we're the real Aryans and are in fact white," now says the equivalent of, "ugh, white people."

I think the optimistic view of all of this is that it's encouraging solidarity among people and groups who perhaps previously hadn't thought they had much in common.
posted by yasaman at 1:36 PM on August 24, 2016 [55 favorites]


BEWARE THE HILDABEAST AND HER VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE

Best band name ever.
posted by emjaybee at 1:38 PM on August 24, 2016 [17 favorites]


“The hidden Trump vote in this country is a very significant proposition,” she said.

Obviously they're lurking around polling places in their stars-and-bars colored trenchcoats.
posted by Archelaus at 1:39 PM on August 24, 2016


Huffington Post: Donald Trump Campaign Manager Goes Into Full Poll-Truther Mode

“Donald Trump performs consistently better in online polling where a human being is not talking to another human being about what he or she may do in the election,” Kellyanne Conway maintained in the interview that aired Wednesday. “It’s because it’s become socially desirable, if you’re a college-educated person in the United States of America, to say that you’re against Donald Trump.”

So, essentially, Trump's own campaign manager admits that their own voters won't admit to voting for Trump.
posted by mochapickle at 1:40 PM on August 24, 2016 [21 favorites]


These must be those people in those secret states.
posted by mochapickle at 1:41 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


> My aunt who used to wrinkle her nose and say stuff like, "you know, our people are from the Aryan plateau which means we're the real Aryans and are in fact white," now says the equivalent of, "ugh, white people."

Actually, this would be an excellent tack for all (purportedly) white people to take, since race is a construct and there's no such thing as "white people" anyway; turn "white people" into a self-identification used only by the kind of people who fall for Trump. Make "ugh, white people" into the national motto!
posted by languagehat at 1:41 PM on August 24, 2016 [16 favorites]


“Donald Trump performs consistently better in online polling where a human being is not talking to another human being about what he or she may do in the election,” Kelly Conway maintained in the interview that aired Wednesday. “It’s because it’s become socially desirable, if you’re a college-educated person in the United States of America, to say that you’re against Donald Trump.”

So, essentially, Trump's own campaign manager admits that their own voters won't admit to voting for Trump.


The lurkers support him in email!
posted by dilettante at 1:43 PM on August 24, 2016 [9 favorites]


“Donald Trump performs consistently better in online polling where a human being is not talking to another human being

Let's all take a moment to consider this sentiment and this wording. Because it's...it's weird, right? It's making other people feel kind of uneasy too? Or is that just me?
posted by yasaman at 1:43 PM on August 24, 2016 [24 favorites]


No, the "another human being" thing is honestly super weird and creepy.
posted by mochapickle at 1:45 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump polls higher among non-humans.
posted by mazola at 1:45 PM on August 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


Voting for Trump such a shameful thing that people feel compelled to hide their intentions of doing so, even to random strangers conducting anonymous polls. This why they feel certain he will win in November. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:46 PM on August 24, 2016 [31 favorites]


Hey, actual question. Is there a kind of "online polling" that is not the self-selected "I was on Fox New's web site and got a pop-up" that I'm not aware of? I know about robocall polling, and I know about actual human being talking at me on the phone polling, but please tell me this (from what I understand pretty well-respected) professional pollster is not saying "Fox New's ticky boxes say my candidate is GR8!"

Keepin' it 1600 had an interesting interview with the HFA internal pollster where he broke down the pros and cons of the various types of polls (robocalls vs. in person vs. online) and he said that polls where there's no person-to-person interaction (robocall or online) are significantly less reliable because the pollster is looking for a specific person not just any person who happens to be picking up a landline phone.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:47 PM on August 24, 2016


“Donald Trump performs consistently better in online polling where a human being is not talking to another human being

Does Trump's campaign team really think online web polls posted to /r/the_donald and voat are, in fact, based on representative samples of the voting populace?
posted by dis_integration at 1:47 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


> “I call it the undercover Trump voter, but it’s real.”

UNDERCOVER LOSS: COMING FALL 2016
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:48 PM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


Trump polls higher among non-humans.


PETA has thrown fake blood on people for less than this outrageous statement.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:49 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


I mean, think about all the other things we don't talk about to other humans: Bouts of gastrointestinal distress, weird perversions, doubts, ugly thoughts, biases, shame, private moments of dark despair.

Would you really want your campaign manager to lump a vote for their candidate in with all that?
posted by mochapickle at 1:50 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


"at least I got Jesus Fried Chicken"
posted by angrycat at 1:51 PM on August 24, 2016 [7 favorites]


I just watched the video. As someone who is merely married to a white person and has generally good relations with a number of white people and has encountered her fair share of racist asshole white people, I thought that ascribing the views of that particular video to all white people was pretty hurtful, in a way that statements like: "ugh, white people" or "white people problems" or "he dances like a white person" or even "white people don't care about the harm they cause in the world" are not.

Jesus Popeye's Biscuits with Honey Christ indeed.
posted by sparklemotion at 1:51 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


> Donald Trump performs consistently better in online polling where a human being is not talking to another human being

you're in a desert walking along in the sand when you see a trump crawl up to you. you reach down, you flip the trump over on its back. the trump lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs to try to turn itself over, but it can't, not without your help. but you're not helping. why is that?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:53 PM on August 24, 2016 [31 favorites]


Actually, this would be an excellent tack for all (purportedly) white people to take, since race is a construct and there's no such thing as "white people" anyway; turn "white people" into a self-identification used only by the kind of people who fall for Trump. Make "ugh, white people" into the national motto!

I saw Ta-Nehisi Coates speak a year ago and one of his points was that a century from now, we have no idea what will qualify people as part of the "white people" in-group, but he was confident white people would start accepting people they hadn't before as one of "them" as a way to maintain majority status.

I wonder whether this election will push the needle the other way instead, as languagehat describes. Perhaps I am wildly optimistic.
posted by sallybrown at 1:53 PM on August 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


That polling bit is even more ridiculous than it seems on its face, considering Kellyanne Conway is a polling expert, so she clearly knows her argument is hogwash.
posted by sallybrown at 1:57 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Donald Trump performs consistently better in online polling where a human being is not talking to another human being

Why isn't the lying media talking about the Voight-Kampff machine polling?
posted by PlusDistance at 1:59 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump polls higher among non-humans.
So he really needs to step up his MeFi comment script outreach...
posted by Golem XIV at 1:59 PM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


I've just been handed a revelation! Egg McMuffin isn't trying to spoiler Trump, he's trying to spoiler Johnson and it's right there in the Utah PPP poll.
The candidates for President are Democrat Hillary Clinton, Republican Donald Trump, Constitution Party candidate Darrell Castle, Libertarian Gary Johnson, Green Party candidate Jill Stein, and independent Evan McMullin. If the election was today, who would
you vote for?
Hillary Clinton 24%
Donald Trump 39%
Darrell Castle 2%
Gary Johnson 12%
Jill Stein 1%
Evan McMullin 9%
Undecided 14%
9% for an off-brand Republican to Johnson's 12% - and if that vote combined it would turn it into a three horse race (which doesn't matter now but would cause headaches in 2020). Someone at Republican HQ is on the ball.
posted by Francis at 2:00 PM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


The thing is, if you hold that right wing people are more concerned with hierarchy, social structure and group conformity, then it is more likely for a secret Hillary supporter to hide it than a secret Trumper, Not hard and fast rules, of course, because Trump is pretty transgressive, but especially given Trump's gender divisiveness and the lower tolerance for independent female stances in the more, shall we say, traditional parts of the world, I have some sympathy with the view that red-state anti-Trump women will keep quiet about it (let alone those who are pro-Hillary).
posted by Devonian at 2:01 PM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


Dammit, YCTaB!
posted by PlusDistance at 2:01 PM on August 24, 2016


This is an eight minute youtube video devoted to proving that Hillary Clinton faked being able to open a jar of pickles. I...
posted by prefpara at 2:03 PM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


It takes a genuinely stupid candidate not to realize how bad it is that you are so hateful, and so associated with open bigotry, that people are (appropriately) embarrassed to admit their support for you.
posted by bearwife at 2:04 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


This is an eight minute youtube video devoted to proving that Hillary Clinton faked being able to open a jar of pickles. I...

Warning: Alex Jones video. May cause brain bleeding, spontaneous vomiting, and wild, apoplectic rage.
posted by mochapickle at 2:07 PM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


mochapickle is not wrong. I was previously not familiar with Alex Jones and just reading the titles of the other videos on his channel was A Lot For One Day.
posted by prefpara at 2:08 PM on August 24, 2016 [13 favorites]


This is an eight minute youtube video devoted to proving that Hillary Clinton faked being able to open a jar of pickles. I...

omg the whole bit is on the POP noise, which he demonstrates, but his fuckin jar of NON LIAR pickles doesn't even make a proper pop noise and he's holding it directly in front of a much more substantial mic than the one Hillary was wearing on her lapel, so ok he's an idiot OBVIOUSLY, but then he spills pickle juice all over the fucking place and oh my yes this is grand
posted by phunniemee at 2:09 PM on August 24, 2016 [19 favorites]


oh my yes this is grand

The best part is the litany of jarred vegetables listeners might have experience with. Anyone who has opened one or more of the following jars of:
  • tomato sauce
  • garlic
  • olives, stuffed or unstuffed
  • asparagus spears
  • vegetables en escabeche
  • sun dried tomatoes in oil
  • artichokes
  • Maraschino cherries
  • pearl onions
  • pimientos
  • roasted peppers
  • chopped shallots
  • apple sauce
  • sauerkraut
Would know that Hillary Clinton is on the brink of death, her frail body kept alive through sheer hatred of men.
posted by dis_integration at 2:19 PM on August 24, 2016 [19 favorites]




From about a year ago until about three months ago, the WSJ was maintaining a github repository to help analyze the Clinton email data. If folks are interested in looking at her FOIAed messages in bulk, this seems like a decent place to start: wsjdata/clinton-email-cruncher
posted by Going To Maine at 2:19 PM on August 24, 2016


This is an eight minute youtube video devoted to proving that Hillary Clinton faked being able to open a jar of pickles. I...

I just watched that Jimmy Kimmel show last night and when it got to the pickle jar thing I totally thought "someone online's gonna make a thing saying they faked that." And maybe they even did, I mean, you don't want a stunt like that to go wrong on TV. Not that it would matter because opening a jar of pickles proves bupkis about your health.

What's making me crazy about all this "Hilary's health" nonsense is that between the lot of them, they can't seem to concoct a single, cohesive narrative for what is "wrong" with her. One day they say she's got vascular dementia - (LOL. My mom's husband had that for the last three years until he died back in February. Hillary does not have vascular dementia.) Another day they say she's got some brain damage that makes her unable to process language. (Yet somehow she speaks in complete sentences, while Donne tends to string fragments together until you forget that he hasn't completed a sentence in minutes.) Then it's just random shit like "she sleeps a lot." (No evidence provided, one is simply meant to presume that any moment you can't physically see her on a live camera she's comatose somewhere.) Or of course Rudy's even vaguer "there are reports, just go Google."

This is really, quite possibly the most "there's no THERE there" lie I've seen the right wingers try to spin up. Even more than Obama's birth certificate.
posted by dnash at 2:21 PM on August 24, 2016 [12 favorites]


Hey, actual question. Is there a kind of "online polling" that is not the self-selected "I was on Fox New's web site and got a pop-up" that I'm not aware of?

Yes.

The way that yougov works, IIRC and they may have changed, is roughly that they have a big stable of respondents that they pay some pittance to answer surveys and they have all their demographics stored. Then they go to the US Census and draw a sample of however many adults. Then they go back to their stable of respondents and say "Okay, respondent #1 is a left-handed black man who's 38," and randomly pick out one of their left-handed 38 year old black men to respond to the survey. Repeat as needed.

You could presumably also do it just by letting people respond and taking their demographics, and then (assuming you trust what they said about their demographics) back a representative sample out the mishmash you have just by weighting some people more than others. Dunno if anyone does this.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:21 PM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


Donne tends to string fragments together

it's called poetry, gawd!!!
posted by prefpara at 2:22 PM on August 24, 2016 [18 favorites]


JET FUEL CAN'T MELT PICKLE JARS
posted by uosuaq at 2:23 PM on August 24, 2016 [14 favorites]


> BEWARE THE HILDABEAST AND HER VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE

Somebody watches Fringe.
posted by guiseroom at 2:23 PM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


Alex Jones is so wrapped up in Picklepopghazi (Gherkingazi?) that he misses the real scandal: Jimmy Kimmel takes her pulse and she doesn't have one!1 She even admits there's nothing there1! She's a walker!
posted by kirkaracha at 2:25 PM on August 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


it's called poetry, gawd!!!

ROFL. Dammit I thought I caught all my typos. That was supposed to be "Donnie," obviously. (I have this aversion to even typing his proper name.)
posted by dnash at 2:25 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


The best part is the litany of jarred vegetables listeners might have experience with. Anyone who has opened one or more of the following jars of:

I missed, did he say it WAS or WAS NOT like opening a jar of fertilizer?
Side note: does fertilizer come in jars?
posted by phunniemee at 2:25 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


But we have somehow failed to take everyone with us in understanding that that is on the whole a good thing. We have a large swath of the electorate that is not convinced the diversity is good thing, that social liberalism is a positive, that it should be okay to love who you want and live the way you want, even if your family structure doesn't look like theirs

It's probably been said already, but yes, these things bother them because they are bigots. They sure as shit don't call it that, and I'm sure they don't identify it as that, but that's what it is.

Civil rights should be self evident. How much convincing is enough? How much work do we have to do to just get people to empathize with us as humans? To just believe us?

At what point is it a fool's errand?
posted by schadenfrau at 2:25 PM on August 24, 2016 [7 favorites]


Kimmel used "dillghazi" to refer to it last night, which he telepathically stole from me
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:25 PM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


But what are the psychics saying? Out of curiosity I analyzed the first 2 pages of Google search results for "2016 presidential election psychic predictions". Here's the results for the total of 19 psychic predictions sampled (Regardless of when the predictions were made, hence the 2 Bernie predictions):
  • Clinton - 52.6% - 10 psychics
  • Trump - 15.8% - 3 psychics
  • Undecided - 21.1% - 4 psychics
  • Bernie Sanders - 10.5% - 2 psychics
posted by Hairy Lobster at 2:26 PM on August 24, 2016 [13 favorites]


From about a year ago until about three months ago, the WSJ was maintaining a github repository to help analyze the Clinton email data. If folks are interested in looking at her FOIAed messages in bulk, this seems like a decent place to start: wsjdata/clinton-email-cruncher

(I will note that, with a few tweaks, you could use this as a starting point from which to analyze any corpus of FOIAd documents, such as Kissinger phone calls.)
posted by Going To Maine at 2:26 PM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


NPR does a story on the non appeal to African American voters of Trump's latest "outreach" rhetoric.
posted by bearwife at 2:30 PM on August 24, 2016


Jimmy Kimmel takes her pulse and she doesn't have one!1

The reason you're taught to use your fingers to take a pulse is that your thumb has a pulse of its own. If Jimmy didn't feel one at all, they were both dead.

Obviously the writing staff for this election has some Lost veterans.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:30 PM on August 24, 2016 [11 favorites]


I'm just cringing at Trump going into "urban" communities per MSNBC. There will always be some black folk that treat him normally. A lot of us get taught that from an early age, and that message can be really strong. I mean MLK JR, right? A lot of us are more than happy to pretend you didn't just say all that racist stuff and discriminate against us, and hang out with and hire white nationalists while whipping the racists in your party into a frenzy. A good number of folks will think that makes them magnanimous and feel like they can somehow melt his icy heart.

But I hope at least one or two folks get to him that are aware of the specifics of what he has said and done, and are ready to 'check' him. And it's not always going to be the person you think it will be. It might be that old creaky person that looks 100% quaint that will hit you with some biting words you'll never forget. Because they aren't scared of you one bit. Or it might be a person that shakes your hand and is willing to sit down with you, but feels the need to remove from you any impression that you were about to just skate in here and skate out without facing up to how you act.

Despite Trump's obvious avoidance of a variety of black people, and despite things like that NPR article, don't be surprised if he makes it in and out of a few of these appearances without getting himself embarrassed. I'm going to guess that if he stays humble, he might make it through. But not unlike the movies, the moment he says or does something where it's clear he's trying to act like he's got it made with "the blacks", somebody's going to come put him in his place. If they don't get blocked by the campaign.
posted by cashman at 2:35 PM on August 24, 2016 [11 favorites]


Kimmel used "dillghazi" to refer to it last night, which he telepathically stole from me

Gherkwater
posted by murphy slaw at 2:37 PM on August 24, 2016 [10 favorites]


Re: people who will admit to voting for Trump, yard signs and bumperstickers

There’s a part of politics that’s basically like sports fandom: people pick a side, identify with it, and root for it out of their sense of personal identity. This has as much to do with voting as rooting for a sports team has to do with attending their games in person.

For this reason you see lots of signs and bumper stickers for candidates people personally identify with and for candidates people believe are their personal champions. That’s why there a lot of Bernie and Trump signs — they’re self-styled champions of certain populations, and they project a lack of polish that is appealingly relatable to many people.

Clinton is in an interesting position because all the years of propaganda against her have made her a “brand” that’s hard for people to embrace. This has been enforced strongly this election by anti-Hillary factions on both the left and right who spread anti-Hillary propaganda and have made a point of harassing people who support her openly. It’s also enforced by every “why is Clinton so unlikable” story printed by the MSM — a self-perpetuating narrative.

All of us —PoC and White, male and female -- have been programmed to identify with white men because they are the heroes or at least the protagonists of just about every popular movie, TV show and book. It is very difficult to make the leap to identifying with a woman in the hero’s role, even if you are a woman. Still, white college-educated women are leaning Democrat this election for the first time in history, and I suspect it’s because there’s a significant population of us who work white collar jobs and have had years of professional experiences that let us recognize ourselves in this version of Hillary: http://www.bitchplz.org/

Hopefully the DNC’s work highlighting Hillary’s long history as champion of women, children, PoC, the poor and working classes (and all those intersections) will help her seem more relatable to many. But as the 2008 and 2016 Democratic primaries proved: yard signs are not votes, and while the sports-like aspect of politics is one of the most visible parts of an election, it’s not the only one that matters at the ballot box.
posted by pocketfullofrye at 2:42 PM on August 24, 2016 [19 favorites]


Way back in 1960, The Bullwinkle Show had a segment in its "Mr. Know-It-All" feature titled "How to Open a Jar of Pickles"... of course, Mr. Know-It-All/Bullwinkle fails miserably with ever-escalating methods, including explosives. At the end, Rocky looks at the label and declares "That's not a jar of pickles! It's a jar of jelly!" and Bullwinkle relies "That explains it... It's JAMMED."

Provided for perspective.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:44 PM on August 24, 2016 [40 favorites]


Margins of error don't mean "We are certain that Clinton is leading by 11 to 17 points," they mean "We are 95 percent certain that Clinton is leading by 11 to 17 points; there is a nonzero-but-very-close-to-zero chance that she will lose Florida by 90 points."

It's even broader than that. Pollsters also make assumptions about voter screens, demographic makeups of the electorate, and a bunch of other stuff.

Both of the Florida polls in the last 2 days look garbagey to me. Which is why polls are averaged. Clinton up by 6 sounds a lot more reasonable than Clinton up by 14 (!) or -2.
posted by Justinian at 2:46 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Both of the Florida polls in the last 2 days look garbagey to me. Which is why polls are averaged. Clinton up by 6 sounds a lot more reasonable than Clinton up by 14 (!) or -2.

I went into the Trump winning poll Short version: It claims he has 20% of the black vote and about as many snake people as Clinton. Something's seriously fishy in it. (The other poll actually makes a vague sort of sense)
posted by Francis at 2:52 PM on August 24, 2016


> people pick a side, identify with it, and root for it out of their sense of personal identity.
People picking a side instead of looking for whatever party fits their mindset is essentially what's wrong with a first-past-the-post system, innit?
posted by farlukar at 2:55 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Pay-for-pickle-pop-e-mail Stategate! Crime felon strong me fix! Wall be Mexico love cop!

*bink* Error 045567_9
posted by petebest at 2:56 PM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


WaPo is trolling Rudy now.
Also — we’re noting this purely out of concern — during his speech he often licked his lips, indicating dry mouth, which, according to the Mayo Clinic, can be a symptom of nerve damage, stroke or Alzheimer’s disease. At the end of his address, beads of sweat were visible on his pate — did that not suggest heart disease?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:56 PM on August 24, 2016 [86 favorites]


Just a fun historical fact--Rudy Giuliani went after Charlie Wilson (the Congressperson who made it possible for the CIA to fight a proxy war against the USSR in Afghanistan) as a federal prosecutor, alleging that he did drugs and cavorted with prostitutes in Las Vegas. The charges were dropped due to lack of evidence. But some of his first big cases in the federal system involved investigating Democrats for corruption. During this period he switched his affiliation from Democratic to Independent to Republican. People he worked with described him as overly intense and hinted that his tactics were questionable.

Nothing has changed, apparently. Rudy's gonna Rudy.
posted by xyzzy at 3:15 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


> Jesus Fried Chicken

This seems like as good a place as any to confess that the keming of the Popeye's logo causes me to read it as POPE YES, and I am incapable of parsing it otherwise.
posted by Westringia F. at 3:18 PM on August 24, 2016 [29 favorites]


I knew a very admired federal judge, now deceased, who had the utmost contempt for Rudy. The judge was a patrician fellow, who attended Harvard Law not long after FDR did, and remembered meeting him as a young man. The judge himself sounded just like FDR. So in FDR's voice, this is how the judge always referred to Rudy: "That little rat."
posted by bearwife at 3:22 PM on August 24, 2016 [9 favorites]


> the keming of the Popeye's logo causes me to read it as POPE YES"

I see your POPE YES and raise you a JACK IN THE B[fish].

we're playing christian chain restaurant conspiracy hold-em, right?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:27 PM on August 24, 2016 [17 favorites]


I was born on the grounds of Mar-a-Lago
My mama used to model for the money they'd throw
Papa would spew that alt-right crap
Preach a little racism
Sell a couple MAGA baseball caps

Grifters, Trumps and thieves
We'd hear it from the people of the town
They'd call us grifters, Trumps and thieves
But every night Manafort would come around
And lay the rubles down
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:31 PM on August 24, 2016 [34 favorites]




Mr. Betteridge to the blue courtesy phone, please.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:38 PM on August 24, 2016 [7 favorites]


BREAKING: Did Hillary Clinton Just Try to Assassinate WikiLeaks’ Julian Assange?

It was the trail of pickle juice that gave her away.
posted by mazola at 3:39 PM on August 24, 2016 [17 favorites]


It was the trail of pickle juice that gave it away.

We've been over this. Pickle juice can't melt steel beams.
posted by Talez at 3:41 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


BREAKING: Did Hillary Clinton Just Try to Assassinate WikiLeaks’ Julian Assange?

Betteridge's Law is as reliable as ever I see.
posted by Francis at 3:41 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm not clicking on it so please tell me if "fury.news" is a comedy site or a right wing conspiracy theory site (i.e. an unintentional comedy site).
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:42 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm not clicking on it so please tell me if "fury.news" is a comedy site or a right wing conspiracy theory site (i.e. an unintentional comedy site).

There's a crude line art drawing of a sword that says "lay siege to liberalism" written on it. I leave the rest as an exercise to the reader.
posted by Talez at 3:43 PM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


Well, their logo has a sword with writing along the blade that says "Lay Siege To Liberalism" so I'm sure it's on the up and up.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 3:44 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Sounds legit.
posted by valkane at 3:46 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


I tried looking up info about it and got this from google:

Showing results for furry news network
Search instead for "fury news"


You know what, Google, maybe you're right and I should stick to the Furry News Network instead.
posted by thefoxgod at 3:49 PM on August 24, 2016 [27 favorites]


Clinton ad: "Shirts" on outsourcing clothes manufacturing; "You know, Donald Trump says he’ll make America great again while he’s taking the shirts right off our backs."
posted by kirkaracha at 3:50 PM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


BREAKING: Did Hillary Clinton Just Try to Assassinate WikiLeaks’ Julian Assange?

The story is entirely based on a tweet by Assange saying that someone was scaling the wall of the embassy he's holed up in. Obviously the conclusion to draw from this is that Hillary Clinton sent a (really inept) assassin to kill him. Because of Alex Jones' Razor: the most farfetched explanation is likely the right one.

Looking at WikiLeak's twitter I see Assange is now retweeting crap about Vince Fucking Foster. I don't remember him always being caught up in so much infowars garbage.
posted by dis_integration at 3:50 PM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


the keming of the Popeye's logo causes me to read it as POPE YES

Dammit!
posted by petebest at 3:52 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


EVERYONE sees the Popeyes logo as POPE YES, that isn't news
posted by agregoli at 3:58 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


EVERYONE sees the Popeyes logo as POPE YES, that isn't news

Perhaps its furry news.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:01 PM on August 24, 2016 [7 favorites]


Looking at WikiLeak's twitter I see Assange is now retweeting crap about Vince Fucking Foster. I don't remember him always being caught up in so much infowars garbage.

Wikileaks has morphed into just another pro-Putin/Trump oppo-shop. I'm not sure you can call them 'alt-right', but they're alt-something, and draw on the same source material. The Intercept is not much better these days. They're the proof that the circle of extremism is real.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:04 PM on August 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


Donald Trump: I'm going to "announce something" on immigration in next 2 weeks

Oh well take your time, Donald. No rush or anything. You still have 2 weeks and 2 days before the first ballots are mailed out.
Trump told WPEC.

“We’re very, very firm on immigration,” he added. “We’re going to build a wall, it’s got to be a very powerful wall. But we want people to come into our country, but we want them to come in legally, but we’re going to be very, very strong on immigration.”

During a town hall with Fox News’ Sean Hannity on Tuesday, Trump suggested that he might be open to letting some of the undocumented immigrants living in the U.S. stay.

“There could certainly be a softening because we’re not looking to hurt people,” Trump said. “We have some great people in this country. We have some great, great people in this country but we’re going to follow the laws of this country and what people don’t realize--we have very, very strong laws.”
Got it. You are firm, but you are softening. More like butter in a warm room than an actual policy, but at least you aren't telling everyone that Mexicans are rapists and murderers. So there's that.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:07 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


furry road.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:07 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


On to New Hampshire!
posted by petebest at 4:07 PM on August 24, 2016




On to New Hampshire!

Manchester is only 35 miles from me. Is it my turn to go witness the horror for myself?
posted by Talez at 4:10 PM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


I just wanted to say, good luck. We're all counting on you.
posted by petebest at 4:12 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


Got it. You are firm, but you are softening.

Trump's immigration policies are like those notes from management that completely contradict themselves, but must be followed to the letter.
posted by drezdn at 4:13 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


Have fun storming the castle!
posted by cashman at 4:13 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


very, very, very, very, very, great, great, great, very, very
posted by zakur at 4:14 PM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


furry road.

Oh! That reminds me! I was thinking about Fury Road the other day (and, let's be frank, pretty much every day since I saw it). One character in particular reminds me of Trump in terms of vocabulary and rhetorical style.

Rictus Erectus.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:16 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


todo: write spoken-word piece that's just the superlatives from a Trump speech, delivered without context.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:16 PM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


So the details of Trump's "outreach" to Black and Latino activists are coming out. It's "Invitation Only", according to MSNBC, and being held in Trump Tower.

Are you serious? This dude.
posted by cashman at 4:17 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


Metafilter: very, very, very, very, very, great, great, great, very, very
posted by Hairy Lobster at 4:19 PM on August 24, 2016 [10 favorites]


Relevant to the election because Breitbart or their followers are likely behind it: Leslie Jones website was hacked today and what appear to be nude photos of her as well as her driver's license were posted on it. Disgusting.

I also learned from this article that gives a timeline of the harassment of Jones that Yiannopolis was banned from Twitter for his harassment of her.

All because she's a black woman who starred in a movie with a bunch of other women? This is what we are dealing with.
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 4:19 PM on August 24, 2016 [21 favorites]


> firm, but ... softening

Is Trump's health OK?! Sounds like he suffers from ED. Sad!
posted by Westringia F. at 4:19 PM on August 24, 2016 [10 favorites]


(electoral dysfunction)
posted by Westringia F. at 4:19 PM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


todo: write spoken-word piece that's just the superlatives from a Trump speech, delivered without context

Makes just about the same amount of sense.
posted by zakur at 4:19 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump Suits Say “Made In The USA” — And Imported. Which Is It?
Amazon is the main seller of Trump’s clothes. (Macy’s stopped carrying them last year, after Trump’s controversial comments about Mexican immigrants.) But the online retailer seems a little confused about where the suits were made.
It lists some of them as both “Imported” and “Made in USA.” Those can’t both be true, right? To get to the bottom of this mystery, we ordered two suits.
I hate to spoil the surprise but the suits are made in Indonesia.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:20 PM on August 24, 2016 [19 favorites]


And the Invitation-Only people Trump is meeting with are Republicans? Is that right?
posted by cashman at 4:22 PM on August 24, 2016


And the Invitation-Only people Trump is meeting with are Republicans? Is that right?

I'd guess Breitbart execs, Russian twitter trolls, David Duke, Rudy G, and oh maybe Joe Lieberman for trollin
posted by Existential Dread at 4:29 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]




It lists some of them as both “Imported” and “Made in USA.” Those can’t both be true, right?

It could have been both. Like most clothes "made" in the US is assembled in the United States from imported cloth.
posted by Talez at 4:33 PM on August 24, 2016


So that's where Nigel went. He's a heat-seeking missile bent on causing as much harm as possible.
posted by stolyarova at 4:34 PM on August 24, 2016 [10 favorites]


Trump Is Losing Pennsylvania and Closing His Path to the White House:
Donald Trump’s presidential campaign slogs on, but he has effectively blown his chances at getting into 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. By failing to pivot through his convention, by failing to build a ground team in important states, and by failing to reassure voters uneasy with his primary rhetoric, Trump has killed his campaign. The result: His numbers with college-educated voters and blacks have dropped dramatically, effectively locking him out of states such as Florida, Ohio, and, yes, Pennsylvania.
...
Ask yourself a question: What presidential candidate (not incumbent) was polling this badly within the 90-day election window and then went on to win the presidency? If you are having trouble coming up with an answer, that’s because there hasn’t been one.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:35 PM on August 24, 2016 [14 favorites]


It could have been both. Like most clothes "made" in the US is assembled in the United States from imported cloth.

In the picture that Buzzfeed took the suit is clearly labeled "Made in Indonesia."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:36 PM on August 24, 2016


This is slightly off topic , but surely "pivot" will be this year's word of the year...
posted by OHenryPacey at 4:45 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


I was thinking earlier today that "cuck" will be the word of the year.
posted by My Dad at 4:46 PM on August 24, 2016


read it as POPE YES

Like, the whole band are Pope at once?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:46 PM on August 24, 2016 [11 favorites]


ROU_Xenophobe: "The way that yougov works, IIRC and they may have changed, is roughly that they have a big stable of respondents that they pay some pittance to answer surveys and they have all their demographics stored. "

Yes. I do online surveys for Harris and Ipsos. Mostly it's product stuff, but sometimes politics. They obviously ask all my demographic stuff, so they can weight my responses however.

I probably make $20/month in Amazon credit. A pittance, but I mostly do it during a few down minutes at work.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:46 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


Sorry, I have it on good authority that the word of the year will be "Yikes."
posted by psoas at 4:49 PM on August 24, 2016 [7 favorites]




538: Republicans’ Voter Registration Gains Probably Aren’t Gains At All
posted by Chrysostom at 4:55 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


I watched it, and yeah, wtf, but I do like that it's honest about being racist fucks. At least they're not trying to pass it off as something noble.

I know this was a little while ago, but actually "pass it off as something noble" is EXACTLY what they're trying to do. It parodies itself, but make no mistake.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:55 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


The Word of the Year is YUGE (new spelling accepted by OED)
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:56 PM on August 24, 2016


Manchester is only 35 miles from me. Is it my turn to go witness the horror for myself?

As my good friend Edward Morbius once said, "One does not behold the face of the gorgon and live."
posted by Thorzdad at 5:03 PM on August 24, 2016


Livestream: Pastor Mark Burns is doing the "Not on my watch!" thing again, but this time he is emphatically tapping his enormous gold watch instead of his bare wrist. So, better?

Also ranting again about "race-baiting democrats" and the pledge of allegiance thing. He's just repeating the same thing as last time, including all the HEAR MEs and general shoutiness.
posted by mochapickle at 5:03 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Jackson has "incredible energy, that very powerful word, energy"

It sounds like a Cracked parody of Trump speak.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:10 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


From the live stream link:
Outgoing @UKIP leader Nigel Farage is here with me in Jackson, Mississippi. He'll be discussing the Brexit story at a Trump rally tonight.

— Raheem Kassam (@RaheemKassam) August 24, 2016
The story of neofascists with an "everyman" front man successfully conning an uninformed electorate. Of course that's what Trump wants. They are natural allies.

I hope Nigel "Hitler Youth" Farage and Trump become strongly associated. I hope this becomes widely known. I hope the British public will finally recognise Farage for the white nationalist hate-monger he is.

This appearance might even give some of the more reasonable British Brexit voters pause. I hope.
posted by Quagkapi at 5:12 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


But that's not what "not on my watch" means. It's literally not a literal watch.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:12 PM on August 24, 2016 [37 favorites]


538: Republicans' Voter Registration Gains Probably Aren't Gains At All.

Uh huh. I think what DJT is producing is a more concentrated, smaller base. Like a desert island, slowly being eaten up by the rest of the sea and becoming ever more dry and hot.
posted by bearwife at 5:13 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


But that's not what "not on my watch" means. It's literally not a literal watch.

That's why the weird tapping on his wrist is so funny!
posted by mochapickle at 5:14 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


I seriously doubt his audience knows the difference.
posted by valkane at 5:16 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm at the moment prepared to write off the FAU poll as having been monkeyed with on its demographics until they get a second datapoint.

Trump leads among white voters 49 to 33 percent, but trails with African Americans 68 to 20 percent, as well as Hispanics 50 to 40 percent

What we don't have here is the number of respondents...for all we know this data is based on 25 African American voters, 10 Hispanic voters and 1165 white voters.

posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:16 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


But that's not what "not on my watch" means. It's literally not a literal watch.

"Hilary's views are a bridge too far!" *points at bridge*

"Liberals are a dime a dozen." *fishes threw pockets, produces a dime*

"Winning this elections will be a piece of cake for Trump." *opens up lunch bag, gets out piece of cake, points at it, eats it*

"In fact, it will be like shooting fish in a barrel." *produces gun. assistant brings barrel of fish up to stage. Shoots fish.*
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:21 PM on August 24, 2016 [14 favorites]


Holy shit Farage is on stage with Trump. [real]
posted by Quagkapi at 5:21 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Ironic that he praises Nigel withstanding "name calling" to pass Brexit.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:21 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


And he was introduced with great respect by DJT for succeeding against all odds, despite horrible namecalling!
posted by mochapickle at 5:22 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Nigel now saying they stood up to Moody's and S&P. Which, good on you?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:23 PM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


jinx CHT
posted by mochapickle at 5:23 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


I seriously doubt his audience knows the difference.

I mean, they're people who say "you're bias!" when they mean "you're biased!" because they don't understand how words work, so of course they don't know that "not on my watch" doesn't actually refer to a physical watch that can be strapped to a wrist.
posted by palomar at 5:23 PM on August 24, 2016 [13 favorites]


Exactly.
posted by valkane at 5:27 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Donny saying Brexit looks like a wise decision. Mentions secret polls.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:27 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


I mean, they're people who say "you're bias!" when they mean "you're biased!" because they don't understand how words work.

AKA, the "I could care less!" demographic.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:28 PM on August 24, 2016 [14 favorites]


AKA, the "I could care less!" demographic
See also: prejudice, populous.
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:35 PM on August 24, 2016


Hard to imagine being in the military and hearing "Not on my watch" abused in this way.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:36 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


Weird that he wants to keep people from coming because they come from places that "brutalize women and gays", and doesn't seem to consider that that may be why they're refugees.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:37 PM on August 24, 2016 [49 favorites]


Hard to imagine being in the military and hearing "Not on my watch" abused in this way.

TBF, if your on literal watch, you probably frequently check your literal watch.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:39 PM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


> Holy shit Farage is on stage with Trump. [real]

Whoa wait holdupasec --

I know other foreign politicians have informally "endorsed" US presidential candidates before, but how common is it for foreign leaders to insert themselves into US politics by actually coming to stump for them on US soil?!

I mean, is this unusually fishy, or has this happened all along and I'm only alarmed now because it's Trump & Farage?
posted by Westringia F. at 5:39 PM on August 24, 2016 [12 favorites]


Again with the "What do you have to lose?" So it looks like they are going to stick with that.
posted by mochapickle at 5:41 PM on August 24, 2016


Charter schools. I believe that's new.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:41 PM on August 24, 2016


how common is it for foreign leaders

Flange isn't a foreign leader, he's just an arsehole.
posted by holgate at 5:42 PM on August 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


Egg McMuffin opening up on Trump with both barrels:
Independent presidential candidate Evan McMullin told Business Insider Donald Trump’s campaign staffers have told him that the GOP nominee has times where he “hides in his apartment” and they’re growing “frustrated.”

McMullin also said that it’s “unclear” whether Trump “will make it through this campaign.”
posted by Chrysostom at 5:42 PM on August 24, 2016 [22 favorites]


He certainly has nothing to lose.
posted by Artw at 5:43 PM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


DJT: "Hillary Clinton is a bigot." I am so out of can't evens.
posted by mochapickle at 5:43 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


That arsehole lead the UK out of the EU
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:43 PM on August 24, 2016


Charter schools. I believe that's new.

He's used that before.
posted by cashman at 5:43 PM on August 24, 2016


> how common is it for foreign leaders to insert themselves into US politics by actually coming to stump for them on US soil?!

Farage technically isn't; he has resigned leadership of UKIP as of just after the Brexit vote (possibly precisely so he can do this sideline activity). UKIP only has one MP (though 24 MEPs).
posted by Quagkapi at 5:44 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


@Westringa F.
I know other foreign politicians have informally "endorsed" US presidential candidates before, but how common is it for foreign leaders to insert themselves into US politics by actually coming to stump for them on US soil?!

Genuinely not wanting to snark, but Obama's intervention, while in the UK, on the Brexit debate didn't go down well with some either. I suspect Farrage may be poking the borax a bit here.
posted by vac2003 at 5:44 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]




Farage and Trump together? Which one is cosplaying Mussolini?
posted by Thorzdad at 5:46 PM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


DJT: "Hillary Clinton is a bigot." I am so out of can't evens.

Watch the crowd when he says that. They get it's ridiculous but love his audacity.

He's used that before.

If it was as brief a mention, I may have missed it.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:47 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


So, this is clearly Flange's attempt to launch his career as a right-wing pundit in the USA where the pickings are much greater and wingnut welfare abounds. He's probably bought his place onto that stage one way or another.

Does he have a work visa?
posted by holgate at 5:50 PM on August 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


Farage and Trump together? Which one is cosplaying Mussolini?

Trump is playing Il Duce, Farage is playing Rowan Atkinson.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:50 PM on August 24, 2016 [16 favorites]


It is so hard to take Farage seriously. He tries to cultivate this false pub-loving hail-fellow-well-met attitude and has appeared a number of times on "Have I Got News For You" which is a humorous topical news show. One thing he has in common with The Donald is a foreign-born wife. Nigel's wife is German which sits oddly with his anti-immigrant status. I've heard the same joke told for both men: Nigel/Donald had to import his wife because no Brit/American wanted the job.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:51 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


I know other foreign politicians have informally "endorsed" US presidential candidates before, but how common is it for foreign leaders to insert themselves into US politics by actually coming to stump for them on US soil?!

Well, in Republicanland, UKIP and Israel are the 51st and 52nd states. So it's nothing new. As always, IOKIYAR.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:52 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


And "You can't always get what you want"
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:54 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Nigel's wife is German which sits oddly with his anti-immigrant status.

He was seen at the German consulate the other week securing passports for his kids so that they can claim the EU travel rights that he's helping to strip from millions of their peers. Gurning tosser.
posted by holgate at 5:57 PM on August 24, 2016 [67 favorites]


DJT: "Hillary Clinton is a bigot." I am so out of can't evens.

Watch the crowd when he says that. They get it's ridiculous but love his audacity.


Up til now he has always referred to her "bigotry" now she is a straight up bigot. This is what I mean by him ratcheting up his rhetoric in the past week. He hasn't gone completely nutso in several days but he has slowly been building up to how corrupt and how evil Clinton is and how she has done so many illegal things that he, Trump, will have to appoint a special prosecutor when he is crowned king.

He was seen at the German consulate the other week securing passports for his kids so that they can claim the EU travel rights that he's helping to strip from millions of their peers.

Oh fuck. What a total dickweed.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:59 PM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'm not a good barometer for my fellow Mississippians, but I do know they don't like foreigners telling them what to do. I hope that at least makes some of the attendees uncomfortable.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:00 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


but I do know they don't like foreigners telling them what to do

Yes but on the other hand this guy is known to really piss off liberals, soooo... it's a tough call in the end.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 6:04 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Up til now he has always referred to her "bigotry" now she is a straight up bigot

I suspect that distinction is lost on most of his fans.

I'm not a good barometer for my fellow Mississippians, but I do know they don't like foreigners telling them what to do. I hope that at least makes some of the attendees uncomfortable.

I hope so too, but he just said what he wouldn't do. That may sit easier.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:04 PM on August 24, 2016


but I do know they don't like foreigners telling them what to do

He's a white dude who hates immigrants, that's not the kind of foreigner they picture. I'd bet half of them don't even know he's not an American anyway.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:07 PM on August 24, 2016


I mean, is this unusually fishy, or has this happened all along and I'm only alarmed now because it's Trump & Farage?
While I couldn't find any evidence of actual stumping by foreign leaders or ex-leaders in US Presidential elections with just casual googling, I was HIGHLY amused to learn that Kim Jong Il supported John Kerry and broadcast his speeches on North Korean state radio.
posted by xyzzy at 6:10 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


He's a racist white guy so he's not foreign.
posted by spitbull at 6:10 PM on August 24, 2016 [9 favorites]


Kellyanne Conway is on Rachel Maddow and Maddow just isn't hitting hard enough. Can we sub in Joy Reid pls thanks
posted by zutalors! at 6:13 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


Proof Hillary Staged Pickle Stunt.
[real]
...
[REAL]
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 6:14 PM on August 24, 2016


chaffetz calls on Trump to release tax returns; uses the unequivocally worst possible brocorporatespeak term while doing so.
posted by sallybrown at 6:16 PM on August 24, 2016 [7 favorites]


Specifically, he asks him to "open his kimono." (!)
posted by mochapickle at 6:19 PM on August 24, 2016 [9 favorites]


Also gird your loins...
posted by sallybrown at 6:19 PM on August 24, 2016


Proof Hillary Staged Pickle Stunt yt .
[real]


We talked about this upthread.

Even given the problems with AJ's assumptions, OF COURSE it was staged. No competent campaign is going to risk being handed an unusually tight jar (like the one we've all run into) and being mocked for the rest of the run.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:20 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


Laughing at the YT link that BuddhaInABucket just linked to. So nutty. The banner on top for "free colloidal silver" really makes it!
posted by Sublimity at 6:22 PM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'd bet half of them don't even know he's not an American anyway.

oh I bet you somebody he's gladhanding will address him in a jolly Mary Poppins accent

idiots reliably do this kind of thing when they meet someone with an accent they have seen on TV and I will never understand it
posted by Countess Elena at 6:22 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


~ is now posting live from a safe room during another tornado warning.

I've said this before but, with each and every new rally, I become more and more afraid of just what these supporters are going to do when Trump loses. These are not people in close contact with reality. And, they tend to be armed.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:32 PM on August 24, 2016 [9 favorites]


Maddow's interview with Conway is pathetically gentle.
posted by spitbull at 6:35 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Maddow's interview with Conway is pathetically gentle.

Orders from the top?
posted by Thorzdad at 6:38 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


poking the borax

is this a hilarious autocorrect or some idiom with which i am unfamiliar
posted by murphy slaw at 6:43 PM on August 24, 2016 [21 favorites]


I think it's part angling to get Trump on, and part letting her run her mouth enough to let the BS shine through. She's asked some pretty pointed questions, and Conway has an answer for everything. This is a very long interview, plenty of grist for the mill if MSNBC doesn't wimp out on the followup. She's not changing the minds of Maddow viewers.
posted by wallabear at 6:44 PM on August 24, 2016


At least it’s given us a new epithet: “Pickle Truther Alex Jones”
posted by nicepersonality at 6:45 PM on August 24, 2016 [35 favorites]


I was so shocked at the InfoWars video that I had to post it before I finished catching up on the thread. You did indeed discuss it. Can we discuss it some more?

Because oh my god. I was watching it, perfectly aware that it was sincere, and yet it was a perfect sendup of itself at the same time. Out of the 'not-the-onion' files. I know that there have been literally hundreds of 'is this real life' moments for others. This one's mine. My brain has exploded. No more evens. Can't.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 6:45 PM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


But yeah, get her on AM Joy, please.
posted by wallabear at 6:45 PM on August 24, 2016


I was prepared for this interview with Conway to suck and be pathetically gentle, but I have to disagree. I think Maddow did great. She interrupted, contradicted, brought facts to Conway's face, and did it pretty well. I am actually happy with what happened.
posted by cashman at 6:46 PM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm hopeful that since Maddow did The Interview first, she'll spend the rest of the time dissecting Conway. But that really was a garbage interview, sorry.
posted by zutalors! at 6:48 PM on August 24, 2016


At least it’s given us a new epithet: “Pickle Truther Alex Jones”

right up there with "Noted Goblin Fetishist Alex Jones"
posted by murphy slaw at 6:48 PM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]



But yeah, get her on AM Joy, please.


"You don't get to lie on my show!"
posted by zutalors! at 6:48 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Rachel just addressed it all. And yes, she's angling for Trump. This feels to me like police trying to get past the low level person to get to the higher up in the crime organization.

I operate like Joy-Ann. But sometimes being that strident doesn't let you operate strategically. And if this interview allows her to get to Trump and then go at him, and rip him to shreds, I'm fine with this. Because it was as much as you were going to get with Conway.
posted by cashman at 6:52 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


holgate: I don't know what "gurning tosser" means, but I've always been pretty good at learning new words and phrases just through context, so thank you for teaching me something new today.

I really wish the occasion (or the reason) hadn't arisen, though.
posted by seyirci at 6:54 PM on August 24, 2016


De-lurking to ask, what is a single thing you wish Maddow had said that she didn't? I thought she did well against a fairly slick operator in Conway. The only follow-up I wished for was when Conway said (regarding the Clinton Foundation) that she agreed with Chris Christie that we "didn't have all the facts," and I wanted Maddow to ask, then how can you put out a statement claiming it's the most corrupt organization in political history. What would Joy Reid have asked that Maddow didn't?
posted by Dixon Ticonderoga at 6:54 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Maddow isn't a combative person and she's never going to be a shark in an interview. She uses different tactics. I also think she did fairly well though Dixon's caveat makes sense.
posted by Justinian at 6:57 PM on August 24, 2016


Maddow hasn't "ripped anyone to shreds" this whole season. She's spent the whole time sort of gloating that this is 1969 all over again, complete with the history reels, and then talks about "creating a dialogue" with Kellyanne Conway. I don't even want her to have Trump on, so she can be all "hmm, interesting thoughts on Clinton's health, we've really got a dialogue here, such strategy."
posted by zutalors! at 6:57 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


(My autocorrect in the gesture keyboard tried to make that into "turning tosser," which is hilarious on a number of levels, one of them being I can't imagine the type of person being described here losing sleep because of a guilty conscience.)
posted by seyirci at 6:58 PM on August 24, 2016


what is a single thing you wish Maddow had said that she didn't?

So Donald Trump has been cozying up to white supremacists, retweeting stats and graphs from racists, and he's hired a white nationalist as CEO of his campaign. He's been caught discriminating against black people who tried to live in apartment buildings of his. He's going from town to town meeting with police leadership, when police departments around the nation are known to harbor white supremacists in their ranks, who are then free to go out and shoot black men to death.

[question that Conway would doublespeak her way out of]

I mean you can't pin any of these people down on anything, but it would have been nice to have that acknowledged. That's pretty big, and unless I missed it, didn't get mentioned.
posted by cashman at 7:00 PM on August 24, 2016 [10 favorites]



...but I do know they don't like foreigners telling them what to do


Foreigners telling them what they want to hear is probably delightful.
posted by bonobothegreat at 7:00 PM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


"Now that your candidate is reaching out to African Americans, does he still believe President Obama was not born in this country?"
posted by chris24 at 7:03 PM on August 24, 2016 [22 favorites]


I don't know what "gurning tosser" means

It means a tosser who gurns.
posted by thelonius at 7:03 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


I mean you can't pin any of these people down on anything

like trying to attach jello to tofu with a staplegun
posted by murphy slaw at 7:05 PM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


I don't even want her to have Trump on, so she can be all "hmm, interesting thoughts on Clinton's health, we've really got a dialogue here, such strategy."

I would hate that. But I think she might rise to the occasion. Trump was interviewed by Chris Matthews and Matthews got him in that "there has to be a punishment for women who have abortions" thing that Trump had to wiggle his way out of. He also got Trump to say why do we have nukes if we can't use them. But did even he rip Trump to shreds? No. Joy Ann would go hard from the start and it would probably be like that person she got into it with last week where it ended up just being a bunch of crosstalk.

I don't think Trump would ever step foot on Lawrence O'donnell's show. And MSNBC showed a graph - Trump hasn't done interviews with anything but Fox in the last month or so. I doubt he'd do Matthews again, Reid and O'Donnell aren't possibilities, so I think Maddow is the best option for somebody that is well versed enough to catch Trump in something that might bury this racist hatemonger far enough that the rest of us can finish the job.
posted by cashman at 7:09 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


Maddow didn't even bring up the fact that we do vet people from Elsewhere. Almost no journalist interviewing these Trump people does that, they just let them talk and mention it later.

Or that Obama already does deport more people than past Presidents...

It's not being a "shark" or being "strategic," it's just a pointless softball interview. Trump isn't going to be on her show.
posted by zutalors! at 7:10 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


The drawback to having Trump on your show is that you have to interact with Trump.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:11 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Chris Matthews is another crusty loudmouth white guy so he was sadly perfect to interview Trump. I don't think Joy Reid was a serious suggestion, it's just that she deserves way more recognition for her performance in this campaign, yet Maddow has this 9 PM slot between two much stronger and lesser known shows, Chris Hayes and Lawrence O'Donnell.
posted by zutalors! at 7:12 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump: “The only people enthusiastic about her campaign are Hollywood celebrities, in many cases, celebrities that aren’t very hot anymore…”
posted by kirkaracha at 7:13 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


New gear at the Hillary Clinton store! Never, Ever Trump Button Set. I think the I Have a Very Good Brain hat was posted before, it looks familiar (and not for that reason).
posted by cashman at 7:14 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Campaign update from Pittsburgh: The door-knocking is commencing soon. I just signed up for next Saturday to canvas in some neighborhoods near my house (the first canvassing event I've seen listed for my area).

And I got a call tonight from the local Dems inviting me to volunteer and the old lady who called was super confused that the name they have for me on the lists is the one I use on Facebook (somehow my FB account got connected to my HFA info, I have no idea how) and kind of a nonsense non-name rather than my real name.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:18 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


Maddow didn't even bring up the fact that we do vet people from Elsewhere.

Fair point, although I think Maddow actually took an even better approach to this. Conway could have easily said, yes, we already vet, but Trump is saying we need to do more. Instead, Maddow bypassed that answer altogether and made the point that Trump's "extreme vetting" proposal is actually unconstitutional, and has been for a half century. Conway simply had no response to that, in my view. Maddow took a queen instead of a bishop.
posted by Dixon Ticonderoga at 7:28 PM on August 24, 2016 [11 favorites]


> I was so shocked at the InfoWars video ... Can we discuss it some more?

I know, it's conspicuously odius but it's played completely straight. The rational part of me thinks demagogue but ... but ... I could see some chronically bullied kid express unexplored PTSD in this way.

Earlier on in Obama's administration, wasn't there an anti-bullying initiative? How successful was it appraised to be (both quantitatively and in public opinion)?

If that person on infowars hadn't been relentlessly bullied and grew up in an loving and enabled environment, perhaps they might not have ended up being a public hate spewer?
posted by porpoise at 7:28 PM on August 24, 2016


And ... Trump donated $100,000 to the Clinton Foundation.

Head hurts. Going to bed now.
posted by McCoy Pauley at 7:30 PM on August 24, 2016 [14 favorites]


Trump is playing Il Duce...

o hai just dropping in from Snark Central to let you know the new epithet is Cheeto Benito please update your snarks accordingly
posted by um at 7:30 PM on August 24, 2016 [38 favorites]


OF COURSE it was staged. No competent campaign is going to risk being handed an unusually tight jar (like the one we've all run into) and being mocked for the rest of the run.

And Jimmy Kimmel is not going to risk pissing off his high-profile guest or messing up the gag. Only Alex Jones wouldn't be able to tell a comedy show from a clinical study.
posted by PlusDistance at 7:37 PM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


Donald Trump’s Long, Winding History of Promising Deportations; some samples:

In September 2015 he cited President Eisenhower's Operation Wetback initiative (without naming it) as a model for how his deportation plans would work.

He cited it again during a debate in November 2015:
Let me just tell you that Dwight Eisenhower. Good president. Great president. People liked him. I liked him. I Like Ike, right? The expression, 'I like Ike.' Moved 1.5 million illegal immigrants out of this country. Moved them just beyond the border, they came back. Moved them again beyond the border, they came back. Didn't like it. Moved 'em way south, they never came back. Dwight Eisenhower. You don't get nicer, you don't get friendlier. They moved 1.5 million people out. We have no choice. We. Have. No. Choice.
Also in November he said, "You are going to have a deportation force, and you are going to do it humanely" and committed to his unconstitutional plan to end birthright citizenship:
“A woman is pregnant, she goes over to the border, has a baby on our land, and now we have to take care of the baby for the next 85 years?” Trump said. “If that happened in Mexico, if you had a baby in Mexico, Mexico would throw you the hell out.”
posted by kirkaracha at 7:37 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


Trump donated $100,000 to the Clinton Foundation.
Well, that's definite proof that the Clintons are guilty of 'pay for play' because Trump never pays ANYBODY unless he gets MAXIMUM play.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:38 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


o hai just dropping in from Snark Central to let you know the new epithet is Cheeto Benito please update your snarks accordingly

Sounds prejudiced against puffed corn product
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:43 PM on August 24, 2016


A Short History of Candidates Relying on 'Hidden' Voters:
Donald Trump’s campaign manager says he’s actually winning, thanks to “undercover” supporters. Plenty of past presidential hopefuls have mistakenly believed the same.
Spoiler alert: people described as "hopefuls" after elections are usually not victorious.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:43 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


I Like Ike, right? The expression, 'I like Ike.'

His weird "see what I did there?" moments are just so odd.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:44 PM on August 24, 2016 [10 favorites]


“If that happened in Mexico, if you had a baby in Mexico, Mexico would throw you the hell out.”

Well Donnie, Mexico actually has birthright citizenship, so...
posted by thefoxgod at 7:45 PM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


Joy Reid is on O'Donnell's show right now.
posted by spitbull at 7:46 PM on August 24, 2016


I Like Ike, right? The expression, 'I like Ike.'

Is he asking us to come up with our own rhyming slogan for him? We already have "Dump Trump".
posted by J.K. Seazer at 7:54 PM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


Joy Reid

How does she pronounce her name? I keep reading it as Joy Ride.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:55 PM on August 24, 2016


ChurchHatesTucker -- Joy "Reed" but you can also say it, "Fucking Awesome".
posted by nathan_teske at 8:01 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


Donald Trump’s campaign manager says he’s actually winning, thanks to “undercover” supporters. Plenty of past presidential hopefuls have mistakenly believed the same.

When Mitt Romney said something like that, my assumption was that he was simply mistaken, like any normal human being.

When Donald Trump says something like that, I assume he's laying the groundwork for a stolen election: 'no, those unexpected values are correct because our secret voters voted. Told you so.' (I'd be worried if I thought he had a real plan to do that, but he's certainly made half-assed noises toward outright voter suppression.)
posted by mordax at 8:02 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]




To go along with the [real] and [fake] tags we also need a [surreal] tag.
posted by guiseroom at 8:07 PM on August 24, 2016 [14 favorites]


With Trump, we might even need a [surfake] tag.
posted by NMcCoy at 8:12 PM on August 24, 2016 [17 favorites]


[fake but not that fake], maybe?
posted by mordax at 8:15 PM on August 24, 2016


[fuck]
posted by guiseroom at 8:16 PM on August 24, 2016 [19 favorites]


[Chinatown]
posted by lefty lucky cat at 8:19 PM on August 24, 2016 [33 favorites]


His weird "see what I did there?" moments are just so odd.

The "commonly known as" and "otherwise known as" when he's off the script are also really weird. He talks like somebody who needs a ghost writer for his mouth.
posted by holgate at 8:20 PM on August 24, 2016 [7 favorites]


Thump Trump on the Stump? Doesn't flow as well as I Like Ike. (My mom still has her I Like Ike pin.) For the debates I'll just use "Stump Trump 2016" as my headcanon. While drinking copious quantities of vodka with a splash of OJ.
posted by xyzzy at 8:20 PM on August 24, 2016


@Murphy Slaw
poking the borax

is this a hilarious autocorrect or some idiom with which i am unfamiliar


Sorry, New Zealand colloquialism, meaning, stir things up, teasing, taking the piss.
posted by vac2003 at 8:24 PM on August 24, 2016 [10 favorites]


[kayfabe] (which after his appearance at a WrestleMania years ago where he beat up WWE owner Vince McMahon, is my blanket description of Trump's act)
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:25 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


I don't know what "gurning tosser" means

It means a tosser who gurns.


I really like that it basically boils down to "that guy, who jerks it, also makes horrible faces".
posted by palomar at 8:29 PM on August 24, 2016 [9 favorites]


GRAR I just realized that my new med precludes me from enjoying / grimly consuming / drowning in alcohol for three months. What shitty timing.
posted by wallabear at 8:29 PM on August 24, 2016 [14 favorites]


wallabear, I am sober, too. Solidarity. We can do this.
posted by mochapickle at 8:30 PM on August 24, 2016 [13 favorites]


Stand strong.
posted by rp at 8:37 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


If I wasn't sober over the past few months I'm pretty sure I'd have died of alcohol poisoning by now
posted by localhuman at 8:46 PM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


i'm just glad i live in a state where weed is legal, because alcohol plus politics makes me cry a lot, but alcohol plus weed plus politics just ends up with me eating croissant sandwiches and watching the west wing and then drunk history.
posted by palomar at 8:56 PM on August 24, 2016 [30 favorites]


Although if I were drinking it'd be now: Trump just retweeted this awfulfake video where a fake Bob Ross paints Muhammed.

I just had to check to be sure it wasn't the DJT satire account.
posted by mochapickle at 9:04 PM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


Although if I were drinking it'd be now: Trump just retweeted this awfulfake Bob Ross video where fake Bob Ross paints Muhammed.

Seriously?

I mean, seriously??
posted by yesster at 9:07 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


Yeah. I thought I was already beyond the point where I was stunned but apparently not.
posted by mochapickle at 9:11 PM on August 24, 2016


Whaaaaat?! So is Trump trying to say Bob Ross was some kind of Muslim-lover?! Like if Bob Ross paints it, then it's a happy, wonderful beautiful subject.
posted by R343L at 9:11 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


(I can't find it. Link?)
posted by R343L at 9:13 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


No... it's a retweet. And I guess it's supposed to be funny because 1) haha painting someone who is never supposed to be depicted in images and 2) making fun of the youth of his wife.

Second tweet down
posted by mochapickle at 9:14 PM on August 24, 2016


Fake account. Missing the "l" in "real".
posted by R343L at 9:15 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


That's a satire account, is it not? (Donald T. Trump; @reaDonaldTrump without the "L")
posted by Spathe Cadet at 9:16 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


OH THANK GOD. I'm sorry for the false alarm, guys!
posted by mochapickle at 9:17 PM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


Anyway it's a perfect example that we all were like "what really?" Because it's completely in Trump's "ouevre" to pointlessly and incoherently make some kind of "joke" involving a harmless and beloved (by many) painter in order to demonize some group.
posted by R343L at 9:17 PM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


I blame sobriety.
posted by mochapickle at 9:18 PM on August 24, 2016 [13 favorites]


And I am super embarrassed.
posted by mochapickle at 9:22 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


Trump donated $100,000 to the Clinton Foundation.

Nope. The Trump Foundation contributed to the Clinton Foundation. Almost none of the money in the Trump Foundation has come out of Trump's pocket. It is money collected from other donors. Like most things Trump, the foundation is just a Trump branded product with his name on it. It's not Trump's money.
posted by JackFlash at 9:22 PM on August 24, 2016 [24 favorites]


But it's still kind of hilarious that the Trump Foundation gave to the Clinton Foundation. It's actually a perfectly normal thing in the world of non-profit and foundation giving for one foundation to give to another. But I imagine it seems really weird to people who don't know much about non-profits.
posted by R343L at 9:24 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


We forgive you mochapickle. There was that one time Trump retweeted a Mussolini quote. That's something that really happened! Also everything he's said in the past year makes basically anything totally plausible.
posted by dis_integration at 9:26 PM on August 24, 2016 [9 favorites]


I like all these tags:

[real]
[fake]
[surreal]
[surfake]
[fuck]
[Chinatown]

I'll submit that we may need one more that, by this point, really explains a lot:

[2016]
posted by seyirci at 9:28 PM on August 24, 2016 [44 favorites]


don't be embarrassed, i regularly have to double and even triple check things because we are in the motherfucking upside down here and anything is possible. and then there's that whole thing where i'm stoned almost constantly as a coping mechanism, so.
posted by palomar at 9:29 PM on August 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


2-2-2-2016!!
[2016]
posted by J.K. Seazer at 9:31 PM on August 24, 2016 [11 favorites]


J.K. Seazer, I unwittingly clicked on your link and the sound startled my cat so much she fell off the bed and ran across the house.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 9:55 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


If you were wondering, the Trump Foundation is pretty much a joke for someone who claims to be worth $10 billion. It pulls in barely half a million to a million dollars a year from donors. This compares to the Clinton Foundation which collects over $250 million a year.

As for personal contributions, the best I have been able to find is that Trump once personally contributed $10,000 to his foundation, but not every year. Meanwhile the Clintons have been personally contributing one to three million dollars a year to their foundation.

It appears that the Trump Foundation is just a public relations facade. It doesn't do any serious charity work. But we know that the Trump Foundation contributed $25,000 to the political campaign of Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi just before she dismissed a lawsuit against the Trump University. Political contributions from a charity are flat illegal and Trump claims this was just a mistake, wrong checkbook or some such.
posted by JackFlash at 10:19 PM on August 24, 2016 [37 favorites]


If you need some comic relief, I just discovered that Milo Yiannopolous self published a book of poetry that plagiarized Tori Amos lyrics multiple times (details here)

And Drusilla lines from Buffy, apparently.

If only he could have been silent all these years.

I'll see myself out.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 10:25 PM on August 24, 2016 [13 favorites]


2-2-2-2016!!

Holy shitsnacks the filmmakers of Ghana must all be mainlining 100% DISTILLED AWESOMENESS. If they combine the Ghana movies with those metal dudes in Malawi and that bunch of hyper-charismatic kids from Goma in the DRC they would form a Voltron that would accidentally destroy the world with the power of joy, and explosions.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:29 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


Can of pickles?
posted by mazola at 10:59 PM on August 24, 2016


I can't be the only one waiting for the "You and me? We're pickle people." Vlasic bird & Hillary (inserted Roger Rabbit style) commercial.
posted by downtohisturtles at 11:10 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


so ann coulter had a scheduled book signing for "in trump we trust", a book where she crows that trump can do absolutely anything and not lose support, except compromise on immigration

right before the signing, trump goes on hannity and sort of…workshops an amnesty program?

ann is not pleased

is there anything better than watching two of your least favorite people fight each other?
posted by murphy slaw at 11:33 PM on August 24, 2016 [55 favorites]


Those are some delicious tears. Trump could not have screwed over Ann Coulter more effectively if he tried.
posted by msalt at 11:48 PM on August 24, 2016 [5 favorites]


Quick Q: Has Coulter every justified to her conservative base why she has remained unmarried and childless?
posted by PenDevil at 12:18 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Ann Coulter has written columns blaming her marital status on the fact that there are not enough real men anymore because liberals.
posted by humanfont at 12:25 AM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


Quick Q: Has Coulter every justified to her conservative base why she has remained unmarried and childless?

At least some of her popularity with the (often married) men who follow her comes from that weird air of sexual availability she performs. (Shudder.)
Like a pop star, being openly attached might not be good for her brand.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:30 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]




Ah, sweet, sweet Coul-tears.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:19 AM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


When I was learning how to do loving kindness meditation I used to direct my warm and loving thoughts towards Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh for the hated enemy portion of the program. I figured that if Palden Gyatso could feel compassion for the people who tortured him in prison, I could throw some good vibes in Coulter and Limbaugh's direction. It was surprisingly difficult. And it's incredibly poor practice for me to take any pleasure in Coul-tears over Trump's immigration half-pivot with a twist. But those tears are sweet. And delicious. I'm a bad, bad Buddhist.
posted by xyzzy at 1:47 AM on August 25, 2016 [49 favorites]


She is, of course, angry and it's unlikely she's literally cried. However, she's angry because Trump has adopted a slightly less hurtful stance towards a huge group of people. I think we're allowed to feel a little satisfaction when a bad person is disappointed that the awful thing they wanted became less likely to happen.

That was my most convoluted sentence this season.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:06 AM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]


ann is not pleased

just deserts
posted by lampshade at 3:24 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


[fuck]

Where do you think we are, Fark?
posted by C'est la D.C. at 3:43 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Milo, Ann, and Donald...... The more I hear of them, especially their non-apologies and "just for fun" disavowals, the more I think of Harry Lime, the overgrown prep-school narcissist of The Third Man:
Harry Lime: Nobody thinks in terms of human beings. Governments don't. Why should we? They talk about the people and the proletariat, I talk about the suckers and the mugs - it's the same thing. They have their five-year plans, so have I.
Martins: You used to believe in God.
Harry Lime: Oh, I still do believe in God, old man. I believe in God and Mercy and all that. But the dead are happier dead. They don't miss much here, poor devils.
Having surrounded themselves with the venal, the frightened, the emotionally needy, and the foolish, they think that is the entire human race except themselves, and that they are different, freer, better.

Other people are not even as real to them as their momentary impulses and whims. If it feels good, do it; if you can whip up your followers to amplify your latest frivolity, that just makes the cheap thrill last longer. And if it comes across as emotional and political violence to people who aren't your minions, well, that just proves your little whim has real power and meaning after all.

Milo's vanity edition of his juvenilia, complete with both self-serious epigraphia and an introduction full of fascinated self-analysis of it as juvenilia that the fans *still want to read,* is really what he's been doing his whole adult life. It's Trump's entire campaign, Coulter's ouevre.

This is the alt-right: a narcissist says a stupid, cruel, and childish thing, inflected with received bigotries. A hundred others nod in agreement, retweet, mobilize. And the narcissist becomes convinced that even their puerile cruelties are grand and clever.
posted by kewb at 3:45 AM on August 25, 2016 [35 favorites]


I'm not entirely sure what, if anything, this means, as the Twitters are a bit hyper on the point, but it looks like Trump/Pence are leaving it a little late to file in Minnesota.
posted by Devonian at 4:00 AM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


There is a species of moth that lives off of nothing but Coul-tears.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:02 AM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


Just deserts.

The Ann Coulter diet?
posted by spitbull at 4:05 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


Minnesota's candidate filing period ended May 31st. Did they really miss it?
posted by EarBucket at 4:35 AM on August 25, 2016


No, looks like they have till the 29th to file for the top of the ticket. Still seems like the sort of thing you wouldn't want to leave for the last minute, though.
posted by EarBucket at 4:37 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


It looks as if the MN GOP failed to follow proper procedures and may actually be in a spot of bother - something to do with not electing alternate electors, then discovering at the last minute that they had to do it, and then doing it wrong.

Even if this is a real cock-up, I'm sure it'll be fudged - these things normally are - but it's not your ringing endorsement of competence.
posted by Devonian at 4:51 AM on August 25, 2016 [10 favorites]


Seen a lot of comments about how "alt-right doesn't mean anything, it's just the same racism as always". The difference is that both they and their philosophical bosom buddies the Dark Enlightenment are explicitly Anti-Democracy. That's never happened, in the history of this country, as far as I know--that one of the 2 major candidates for president is steeped in an ideology that rejects democracy itself.

This is even more scary than explicit racism or theocracy because fascism/monarchy has no compromise or surrender. Once it gets into a system, it destroys everything.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:52 AM on August 25, 2016 [32 favorites]


Hey, don't be dissing monarchy. Ours has been compromising like crazy ever since it learned that it gets its head chopped off if it doesn't.
posted by Devonian at 4:56 AM on August 25, 2016 [18 favorites]


J.K. Seazer, I unwittingly clicked on your link and the sound startled my cat so much she fell off the bed and ran across the house.

My dog has been an absolute BRAT the past three weeks, ever since I bought her a Trump dog toy. She will. not. happily do anything (not even eat her food!) other than playing with this goddamn toy. Last night she woke me up at 3 AM pretending she had to go to the bathroom and then led me out to her toy box to try and get me to play tug of war with it. I've never seen her this way over anything else. (In contrast, she HATES the electronic Obama figurine I bought back in Hyde Park in '08.)

oh god my dog is a Trumpublican.
posted by sallybrown at 4:58 AM on August 25, 2016 [32 favorites]


Hey, don't be dissing monarchy. Ours has been compromising like crazy ever since it learned that it gets its head chopped off if it doesn't.

There's no doubt in my mind that Donald would prefer a QEII-style monarchical position over the responsibilities of the Presidency.
posted by sallybrown at 5:01 AM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


Today I learned about the Minnesota Democratic Farmer Labor Party. You're weird America!
posted by srboisvert at 5:01 AM on August 25, 2016 [10 favorites]


From today's Politico Playbook:
K STREET WATCH -- The FBI and DOJ's probes into the Podesta Group's work for a non-profit tied to the former Ukrainian government are sending shockwaves downtown, where the investigation into the firm's work for the European Centre for a Modern Ukraine has led to widespread nervousness. Reps from multiple firms who lobby for foreign entities think this might be a tipping point, and the feds might take a much broader look at other firms and clients. "It's right in the purview of the DOJ - they don't need a referral," said one lobbyist.
Hey, that is actually great news, IMO. Silver lining of this Manafort mess. I hope they broaden this beyond lobbyists to law firms generally. I saw some pretty unsavory stuff in that sector even from "regular" law firms.posted by sallybrown at 5:07 AM on August 25, 2016 [14 favorites]


I'm not entirely sure what, if anything, this means, as the Twitters are a bit hyper on the point, but it looks like Trump/Pence are leaving it a little late to file in Minnesota.

It's going to be like when you try to name all the states and you always leave one out and can't figure which one it is, even though it's not like you don't know Minnesota's a state, it's just hard to remember all 50 at once and when somebody points it out you smack your head and say "oh, of course!" except in this scenario you're running for president and probably should have printed out a list.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:12 AM on August 25, 2016 [53 favorites]


As a Minnesotan, I would like to point out that, yes, we are weird - all y'all went red for Reagan both times, and we didn't. You folks voted Trump in the primaries - we didn't. We've elected socialists. The DFL is a party with a great progressive history, now sadly dragged in the mud, but it is also a party where we are starting to elect Somali-Americans to office and a party with lots of Muslim engagement.

If you don't appreciate it, don't move here and ruin it for us.
posted by Frowner at 5:21 AM on August 25, 2016 [32 favorites]


Someone pointed out to me the other day that Minnesota gave the US not just one, but two, of its greatest ever musical artists - Prince and Bob Dylan. It's a special place.
posted by sallybrown at 5:24 AM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]


OMG guys, I just came up with pure gold for Hillz!

Announce that for the duration of your presidency the Clinton Foundation will continue to operate but under the new name "The Ronald Reagan Shining City on a Hill Initiative."
posted by spitbull at 5:24 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


Yeah although to be fair young Bob Zimmerman couldn't wait to GTFO of Minnesota and to NYC.
posted by spitbull at 5:26 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


You don't want to be forgetting any states - let alone MN when it's got this guy as a senator.
posted by Devonian at 5:27 AM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


Make "ugh, white people" into the national motto!

Okay
posted by middleclasstool at 5:28 AM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


Metafilter: those tears are sweet. And delicious.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:31 AM on August 25, 2016


So did Assange's promised nighttime Clinton wikileak not happen or....?

(Also: what a shitbird and I feel ever so slightly smug that I've thought he was a shitbird since long before thinking he was a shirtbird was cool.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:44 AM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


@RealDonaldTrump is crowing about his numbers now: Poll numbers are starting to look very good. Leading in Florida @CNN Arizona and big jump in Utah. All numbers rising, national way up. Wow!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:45 AM on August 25, 2016




ann is not pleased

Hope she's started working on those mystery novels.
posted by PlusDistance at 5:54 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


@RealDonaldTrump is crowing about his numbers now

Talking Points Memo has Hillary with 320 electoral votes in +5 or +10 states vs. Trump with 145.
posted by scalefree at 6:10 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


Dispatches from the one Trump supporter on my FB feed:

"It's very clear that Hillary Clinton was taking bribes through the Clinton Foundation... which is why she deleted her emails. Note that the Democrats will ignore this and revert to simple name calling to divert people away from the fact that HRC is a traitor."

The overwhelming complaints I hear him express: obamacare left him worse off, people in his Chicago are abusing entitlements, and there are no good jobs, even if you follow the rules. Aspiring blue collar anger that things are not awesome for American workers. An anger I share.

I prefer to hope that it's not all tangled up with white male entitlement, but I have my doubts.
posted by gregglind at 6:11 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


Actually, one thing I wanted to point out about Minnesota: This is a really racist state. We are extremely segregated, we have terrible cops, we have very serious inequality between Black Minnesotans and white Minnesotans in particular and between white people and POC generally.

I like to talk up Minnesota because there's so much that's good here, but both because of white privilege and because I see so many fantastic projects (Black Lives Matter MN, Ancestry Books, Center for Hmong Arts and Talent) and fantastic people (Ilhan Omar, for instance) sometimes I forget how central white racism has been to forging Minnesota identity, and how powerful white racism is here.

For instance, you can literally bike through the intensely gentrified, intensely affluent new warehouse/condo district in downtown and basically turn left, and you're in the poorest part of town, which is also the most intensely segregated and policed.

Anyway. I love Minnesota, I really do, but I did not want to leave anyone with a false impression.
posted by Frowner at 6:19 AM on August 25, 2016 [20 favorites]


Just deserts.

Where her tears are desperately needed.
posted by chris24 at 6:23 AM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


It's going to be like when you try to name all the states and you always leave one out and can't figure which one it is, even though it's not like you don't know Minnesota's a state, it's just hard to remember all 50 at once and when somebody points it out you smack your head and say "oh, of course!" except in this scenario you're running for president and probably should have printed out a list.

You're thinking of Nebraska.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:40 AM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


It really wouldn't surprise me if Trump was dreaming of a medieval monarchical sinecure - there could well be some family history.

Back in Minnesota, as far as I can tell the GOP there forgot to elect the back-up electoral college members that the state requires for a general election pres/vice-pres listing, and only just realised this. The only legal way to produce these is via a state convention, and there's no time to call one of those before the Monday deadline. So, the local party appointed them at a meeting last night, but may lack the authority to do that.

What this means - and whether it's a state or a party matter where the electors come from - is quite beyond me, and i'm only getting this from one Twitter source of unknown provenance. I can't see it making much difference in November - is there any way in which a Trump presidency would depend on the legitimacy of his winning MN? - because if he gets MN he'll have won elsewhere already. But it would be good to learn quite what species of madness has been at work.
posted by Devonian at 6:42 AM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]


You're thinking of Nebraska

A brick wall.
posted by spitbull at 6:44 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


What this means - and whether it's a state or a party matter where the electors come from - is quite beyond me, and i'm only getting this from one Twitter source of unknown provenance. I can't see it making much difference in November - is there any way in which a Trump presidency would depend on the legitimacy of his winning MN? - because if he gets MN he'll have won elsewhere already. But it would be good to learn quite what species of madness has been at work.

I really hope the DFL takes the high road and doesn't make a fuss or even supports the MNGOP on their oversight. These things happen and there needs to be a resolution that's fair and everyone can get behind rather than taking a technical fault and running with it.
posted by Talez at 6:44 AM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]


Thursday, Aug. 25 12:00 PM (3:00pm Eastern)

Hillary Clinton speaks on 'dangers of Donald Trump's divisive 'alt-right' candidacy' in Nevada - 2016 Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton campaigns in the general election battleground state of Nevada, where she delivers a speech to 'address Donald Trump and his advisers' embrace of the 'alt-right' political philosophy', which her campaign describes as 'embracing extremism and presenting a divisive and dystopian view of America which should concern all Americans, regardless of party'. In her remarks, Clinton contrasts 'Trump's divisive views and dangerous temperament with her vision of an America that is stronger together and where everyone has a role to play in the future'.

CSPAN Livestream Link (event is at 3pm Eastern)
posted by cashman at 6:45 AM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


Anyway. I love Minnesota, I really do, but I did not want to leave anyone with a false impression.

Same feeling from another Minnesotan. I'm obviously biased but I like to think that, while we're not perfect, we are on the whole rather more progressive than most of the other states in the mid-west (and more progressive than every state when Reagan was elected).

But we also spewed forth Michele Bachmann so I'm not really worried that anyone will think that MN is a progressive haven or anything.
posted by VTX at 6:49 AM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]


Oh boy. Katrina Pierson back at it again. "He hasn't changed his position on immigration, he's changed the words that he's saying."

Daniel Dale: "Watch CNN people laugh in Katrina Pierson's face"
posted by marshmallow peep at 6:49 AM on August 25, 2016 [50 favorites]


Democrat ad on Breitbart/Bannon: Headlines
posted by PenDevil at 6:50 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


Oh that CNN clip is viral gold. I honesty think laughing at these clowns is the best response to them sometimes.

Also "he just changed the words he is saying" has to become a meme.
posted by spitbull at 6:54 AM on August 25, 2016 [16 favorites]


Talez - oh, absolutely. Like I said earlier, these things get fudged, and rightly so. The rules are there to support democracy, democracy's not there to support the rules.

But even if the DFL says that it disagrees a minor procedural mistake should invalidate a candidate's supporters' ability to exercise their franchise - which I very much hope it does, if it even comes up - this sort of thing leaves the door open for shenanigans by other actors, if the dice fall awkwardly. And, as someone pointed out a thousand years ago on an ancestral election thread, the absolute nightmare scenario is if a legal dispute to the general election result ends up with the 4:4 Supremes and they can't reach a majority.

There can be consequences to clumsiness that no amount of good will can wish away.
posted by Devonian at 7:04 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh boy. Katrina Pierson back at it again. "He hasn't changed his position on immigration, he's changed the words that he's saying."

Daniel Dale: "Watch CNN people laugh in Katrina Pierson's face"


"No. You guys. I'm serious. Guys, listen. Seriously!"

[fake]

Shit is gold.
posted by rp at 7:06 AM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


All hail King Barack Obama, Emperor of the United States of America!
posted by kirkaracha at 7:09 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also "he just changed the words he is saying" has to become a meme.

Says who?
posted by defenestration at 7:12 AM on August 25, 2016 [10 favorites]


Polls, all of them!
posted by Omon Ra at 7:21 AM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


I really hope the DFL takes the high road and doesn't make a fuss or even supports the MNGOP on their oversight. These things happen and there needs to be a resolution that's fair and everyone can get behind rather than taking a technical fault and running with it.

I also think that if the DFL takes the high road and does what they can to help and the MNGOP still doesn't get Trump on the ballot, it just makes the DFL look that much better.
posted by VTX at 7:29 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


“Donald Trump performs consistently better in online polling where a human being is not talking to another human being about what he or she may do in the election,” Kellyanne Conway maintained in the interview that aired Wednesday. “It’s because it’s become socially desirable, if you’re a college-educated person in the United States of America, to say that you’re against Donald Trump.”

"We're the Real Victims" rhetoric is a hallmark of Trump's campaign, and has been a Republican touchstone since Reagan, if not earlier. Trump's spent over a year proclaiming that he's personally being treated unfairly by "lousy/bad/terrible/failing/Mexican/women/" people, the media and "a rigged" system. And he doesn't need proof of any of this, because:
a) everyone knows the world's against him
and
b) if the world wasn't against him, he'd be winning. Because he's a winner. And anyone who says otherwise is lying.

Patent bullshit. But it sows doubt, which is the point.

This is, of course, nothing new. After all, Reagan, Bush I, Bush II and Cheney all blamed the media for their troubles, thus abrogating responsibility for things they were actually doing and the resulting consequences. Anyone and everyone who asked tough questions or reported negative stories was biased against Republicans. 9/11 happened and the Bush II administration called any reporters who questioned what they were doing, traitors. The GOP learned from this, and now all Republicans try to make themselves seem like victims of bias. Bias in the media. Bias in government. Bias everywhere.

This is a multipronged strategy.

It undermines the media in the eyes of the electorate. If voters think the media is untrustworthy, that negatively affects ability of journalists to speak truth to power.

Attacking the media allows them to manage the press, and gives Republicans cover when they want to avoid tough interviews. Both the Reagan and Bush II administrations used and avoided the media to some effect. Worth noting of course that President Obama spent most of his time in office shunning Fox News. But by and large this strategy is a Republican phenomenon, not a Democratic one. During the 2008 campaign, Sarah Palin was interviewed by Katie Couric and infamously flubbed the softest question imaginable in an entirely softball interview. Palin's response was not to say something sane like, "I was so surprised at how silly the question was that I did the human thing and flubbed it" but to attack Couric as biased and conniving for asking it. So....

In an election campaign, it allows spokespeople and candidates to present a false narrative. "We're winning. You can't trust anyone who says differently."

And lastly, this strategy encourages the press to present "both sides" of every story, lest they be accused of bias. Even when it is obvious to everyone that there is no "other side." Thus, the press waters down their own coverage, doing the Republicans' work of inventing a narrative for them.

Conway's not stupid and the people she wants to reach with statements like those are already inclined to believe the press are all biased Democrats who hate Republicans.
posted by zarq at 7:31 AM on August 25, 2016 [30 favorites]


prize bull octorok: Voting for Trump such a shameful thing that people feel compelled to hide their intentions of doing so, even to random strangers conducting anonymous polls. This why they feel certain he will win in November. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This feels a little like "secret Hillary supporters" back in the early days of this election cycle, except without the certainty of success.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:32 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Re the MN ballot thing: what are the odds on this being used as proof that the system is "rigged?"
posted by rp at 7:34 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


sallybrown: I saw Ta-Nehisi Coates speak a year ago and one of his points was that a century from now, we have no idea what will qualify people as part of the "white people" in-group, but he was confident white people would start accepting people they hadn't before as one of "them" as a way to maintain majority status.

Some of this is already happening:

corb: I'd argue it's not that the culture isn't a white sanctuary anymore, but more that the culture is no longer "white plus assimilated white". Because I see a lot of this stuff coming not just from actual white guys, but also from guys who were assimilating and joining the table - light-skinned Hispanic men who adapted to the culture, especially.

An example of sorts: in New Mexico, there's a weird north/south split, where there are light skinned people who say they are Hispanic, because their ancestors came from Spain (for some, this is quite true, with some families having a dozen or more generations in New Mexico without being from native tribes and pueblos). They strongly differentiate themselves from those of Mexican descent in the southern part of the state.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:37 AM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]


sallybrown: That polling bit is even more ridiculous than it seems on its face, considering Kellyanne Conway is a polling expert, so she clearly knows her argument is hogwash.

Some people will bathe in hogwash and sell it to others, if it means a steady check and the chance they'll be part of something bigger if their group wins.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:39 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Seen a lot of comments about how "alt-right doesn't mean anything, it's just the same racism as always". The difference is that both they and their philosophical bosom buddies the Dark Enlightenment are explicitly Anti-Democracy.

Eh... Have you seen their discussions on Twitter? Their philosophy is not exactly coherent, though I tend to agree it's mostly repackaged white supremacy. The hardcore monarchist types reject Milo as well as Trump. BTW, the alt-right as a whole are losing their shit over Trump's morphing immigration policy.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:40 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Can we back up to this MN ballot thing? When do their early/absentee voting ballots go out? Is this really a thing?
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:41 AM on August 25, 2016


Katrina Pierson back at it again. 'He hasn't changed his position on immigration, he's changed the words that he's saying.'

"'Because everyone on the news is saying that he's a bigot and that he's a racist because of the words he uses,' Pierson continued."
posted by kirkaracha at 7:43 AM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


Here's what the Southern Poverty Law Center has to say about the alt-right:
The Alternative Right, commonly known as the Alt-Right, is a set of far-right ideologies, groups and individuals whose core belief is that “white identity” is under attack by multicultural forces using “political correctness” and “social justice” to undermine white people and “their” civilization. Characterized by heavy use of social media and online memes, Alt-Righters eschew “establishment” conservatism, skew young, and embrace white ethno-nationalism as a fundamental value.
There's a lot more in the link, but that's the summary.
posted by arcolz at 7:44 AM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]


Daniel Dale: "Watch CNN people laugh in Katrina Pierson's face"

It takes a lot to make 'em sue
A punch assult and slander, too
A scoop of kids to add the spite
A dash of love to make it nice, and you’ve got
Too many Kooks
Too many Kooks
Too many Kooks
Tooooo many Koooooooks
posted by Groundhog Week at 7:51 AM on August 25, 2016 [10 favorites]


Nice poem. Can you guess what song I have stuck in my head now?

Every time I think I'm clear of that catchy damn song....
posted by VTX at 7:55 AM on August 25, 2016


I went with this Kooks
posted by Twain Device at 7:59 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


mochapickle: DJT: "Hillary Clinton is a bigot." I am so out of can't evens.

ChurchHatesTucker: Watch the crowd when he says that. They get it's ridiculous but love his audacity.

I'd enjoy a half-assed "Spinmaster Donnie" video, like DJ Kitty "Fight the Power", where Donny plays dubstep with his quotes and amps up the crowd, because that's what he's doing - feeding his ego through their enthusiasm.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:59 AM on August 25, 2016


"Because everyone on the news is saying that he's a bigot and that he's a racist because of the words he uses"

there are also the policies he proposes and the things he did that got him sued
posted by murphy slaw at 8:01 AM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


What do you think Trump does while he's (allegedly) hiding in his apartment?
My vote is on eating ice cream and watching Maniac Cop
posted by angrycat at 8:02 AM on August 25, 2016


The alt-right is more than warmed-over white supremacy... maybe the longest Vox post I've seen.
posted by achrise at 8:03 AM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]


I have a question from way up-thread: If you can't bring facts to a feelings fight, what feelings should you bring?
posted by clawsoon at 8:05 AM on August 25, 2016


Thorzdad: I've said this before but, with each and every new rally, I become more and more afraid of just what these supporters are going to do when Trump loses. These are not people in close contact with reality. And, they tend to be armed.

People said the same things when Obama first took office, but that never amounted to anything. But I recognize that neither McCain nor "47%" Romney lead chants of "lock him up," nor stoked fears from the "2nd Amendment people."
posted by filthy light thief at 8:05 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


Nor did McCain or Romney openly call for their supporters to "monitor" *wink wink* polling stations.
posted by Tevin at 8:07 AM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


It really wouldn't surprise me if Trump was dreaming of a medieval monarchical sinecure - there could well be some family history.

I mean, if he wants to become the next Emperor Joshua Norton and stride through Manhattan with a bejewelled crown and flowing robe, complete with ceremonial title and duties, it sounds like a fair trade off for him vowing to stay out of politics forever. But he'd have to keep his vow, or he loses the title, and the crown too, in a ceremony broadcast worldwide.
posted by krinklyfig at 8:08 AM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


I have a question from way up-thread: If you can't bring facts to a feelings fight, what feelings should you bring?

Disgust.
posted by zarq at 8:09 AM on August 25, 2016 [10 favorites]


kirkaracha: Spoiler alert: people described as "hopefuls" after elections are usually not victorious.

So you're telling me there's a chance?
posted by filthy light thief at 8:10 AM on August 25, 2016


I mean, if he wants to become the next Emperor Joshua Norton and stride through Manhattan

There are Manhattans in Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada and Pennsylvania. Can we please include a clause that he and his family live in one of those and leave NYC forever?
posted by zarq at 8:15 AM on August 25, 2016




Trump's base in microcosm

No, I'm sorry, that's completely unfair, I should find a better link

Trump's base in microcosm
(NSFW)
posted by Countess Elena at 8:15 AM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]



I have a question from way up-thread: If you can't bring facts to a feelings fight, what feelings should you bring?

The disgusted, but not-entirely-surprised incredulity of a schoolteacher who just walked in on a fourth-grader taking a shit in your desk drawer.

or something like that
posted by rp at 8:16 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


Either The TweetFacepals UI is gruesome or I've lost the ability to click things and make them "go".

Either way, a YouTuber search for "cnn laughs trump" had more than one hit. Because there was more than one hit.
posted by petebest at 8:16 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Or I guess what Cory Booker said
posted by rp at 8:21 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump's base in microcosm
(NSFW)


That's disturbingly weird.
posted by zarq at 8:22 AM on August 25, 2016


Can we back up to this MN ballot thing? When do their early/absentee voting ballots go out? Is this really a thing?
posted by soren_lorensen


According to Minnesota's Secretary of State, this year they start going out September 23. There's also in-person absentee voting starting September 23 as well. In-person absentee voting is limited to office hours at participating voting locations.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:29 AM on August 25, 2016




If Countess Elena's link is what I think it is--and I'm at work, so I can't click through--there's this one nightmare-inducing piece of media that I've been terrified would become a meme if Trump became the nominee. I'm hoping against hope that what Countess Elena posted isn't that.
posted by pxe2000 at 8:33 AM on August 25, 2016


Oh I doubt it, they just posted it this month. Nightmare-inducing, well ...
posted by Countess Elena at 8:35 AM on August 25, 2016


It's the weird bouncing guys in chairs video, pxe2000.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:37 AM on August 25, 2016


“Donald Trump performs consistently better in online polling where a human being is not talking to another human being […]
Boaty McBoatface for president.
posted by farlukar at 8:37 AM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


This is Trump we're talking about, so "nightmare-inducing" is par for the course. :-/
posted by pxe2000 at 8:38 AM on August 25, 2016






I actually think a large part of Trump's appeal is the Boaty McBoatface dynamic. Literally everyone I know who trolls, at all, is voting Trump this year or initially was planning to vote Trump. And I don't mean just saying it - I mean, they started with saying it, and now are True Believers. They think it's the most likely to piss off all the people they hate, and they've begun to empathize with him. It's the clearest example of why you shouldn't pretend to be something you're not I can even think of.
posted by corb at 8:45 AM on August 25, 2016 [57 favorites]


Natalie Schreyer: The Trump Files: When Donald Took Revenge by Cutting Off Health Coverage for a Sick Infant
The story begins after the death of Trump's father, Fred Sr., in 1999. As David Cay Johnston explains in his book The Making of Donald Trump, Fred Sr. had written a will after the death of his oldest son, Fred Jr., known as Freddy, in 1981. The will left the majority of Fred Sr.'s wealth to Donald and his surviving siblings. Freddy's family was largely cut out.

When Fred Sr. died, Freddy's children sued, claiming that the will "had been 'procured by fraud and undue influence' by Donald and the other surviving siblings," according to Johnston.

Johnston writes that medical insurance had consistently been provided to the family through Fred Sr.'s company. This coverage was crucial for Freddy's grandson (Donald's grandnephew), who suffered from seizures and later developed cerebral palsy. So crucial, in fact, that a letter sent from a Trump lawyer to the insurer after the patriarch's death in 1999 said that "all costs" for the sick child's care should be covered, regardless of caps on the plan or medical necessity, according to Johnston. That didn't last long.

A week after the lawsuit was filed in court, Freddy's son (Donald's nephew) received a letter informing him that the health insurance would be discontinued, meaning his ill son would be left without coverage. Donald openly admitted to the New York Daily News that he and his siblings took this action out of revenge.

"Why should we give him medical coverage?" Trump said, adding, "They sued my father, essentially. I'm not thrilled when someone sues my father."
posted by zombieflanders at 8:46 AM on August 25, 2016 [22 favorites]


This feels a little like "secret Hillary supporters" back in the early days of this election cycle, except without the certainty of success.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:32 AM on August 25 [1 favorite +] [!]


Except polls always showed Hillary to be (accurately) ahead? (Except in MI, which is apparently bizarro poll country.) aaaand secret Hillary supporters were secret because they would get harassed in public?

Unless there's been a rash of harassment targeted at public Trump supporters online (lolforever), I think your feelings are perhaps wrong.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:46 AM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


Apparently the Trump campaign screwed up and he's not on the ballot in Minnesota? Michael Brodkorp has more details on his Twitter feed.
posted by My Dad at 8:48 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh, the thing with trolls is, whenever they are "ironically" doing something they are actually doing it. Always assume they are as disgusting as they say they are.
posted by Artw at 8:49 AM on August 25, 2016 [19 favorites]




I'm not sure it's so much trolls succumbing to sympathy for Trump as it is assholes who actually agreed with Trump all along, but were too afraid to say it in earnest. Trolling is rarely done just for the lulz, no matter what the trolls may tell you.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:53 AM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]


UPDATE: A top #mngop official was completely unaware paperwork had not been submitted to SOS to ensure Trump's name was on the ballot in MN.

again I am hearing this sound
posted by Countess Elena at 8:53 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


A top #mngop official was completely unaware paperwork had not been submitted to SOS to ensure Trump's name was on the ballot in MN.

Excellent news for Jill Stein!
posted by tonycpsu at 8:55 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


Oh, the thing with trolls is, whenever they are "ironically" doing something they are actually doing it. Always assume they are as disgusting as they say they are.

Yep. The_Donald over on reddit is now the canonical example of (some) folks misunderstanding the implications of Poe's Law.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be."
posted by leotrotsky at 8:55 AM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


Romney 49%, Obama 48% in Gallup's Final Election Survey

Just to be clear, a bunch of alcoholic rednecks and gamergaters are going to descend on the polling stations Nov. 8 and elect someone deeply unqualified, that they know is lying about most things because racism.

To be fair, it's still a more coherent narrative than 50 Schadenfreudes of Grey.
posted by petebest at 8:57 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


The drawback to having Trump on your show is that you have to interact with Trump.

But surely that is counterbalanced by the amount of fun you could have with a pickle jar with the lid superglued on.

Really, who could have predicted 48 hours ago how many instances of the word "pickle" would appear in the election threads? I am putting my bets in now for next week featuring either "stoat" or "Macarena" being the big winner.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:57 AM on August 25, 2016 [11 favorites]


But Minnesota had little chance of going to Donnie, so what's the fuss?

Ooh ... but what if would-be Donnie guys and gals don't show up to polls because their guy isn't on the ballot? Better chances for an all-blue state?


leotrotsky: "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be."

I had a high school English teacher point out that if you said "your sweater is ugly - just kidding!" you still had to think that the sweater was ugly long enough to say the comment.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:59 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


MN filing discussed back here.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:59 AM on August 25, 2016


The Chosen One.
posted by Tevin at 9:00 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Macaca
posted by petebest at 9:00 AM on August 25, 2016


Teleprompter Don Liestream begins at 1pm Eastern

"liestream"

Is there a word that means 'inadvertently correct typo'? I feel like there is but I can't think of what it would be....
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:01 AM on August 25, 2016 [19 favorites]


ChurchHatesTucker: Donald Trump Close In Latest Swing State Polls | Morning Joe | MSNBC

In which we learn that it could be the fact that Georgia is a battle-ground state that made Donny soften his rhetoric, and that he's planning outreach meetings and press events in "urban" communities to talk about/ to/ with people of color, maybe including Ben Carson. I look forward to the heckling.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:02 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


I wonder if they'll bring their own burnining cars for a backdrop, or just have cans of gasoline on hand if there aren't already any burning cars.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:04 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


inadveracious? Unintruthful?
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:05 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Is there a word that means 'inadvertently correct typo'? I feel like there is but I can't think of what it would be....

'Freudian slip' is the classic term.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:05 AM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


Donald Trump's name will appear on Minnesota ballot, a state official said, after its initial absence from the secretary of state's website caused minor alarm in Minnesota GOP circles.

"We just received the last item," said Ryan Furlong, communications director for the Minnesota Secretary of State, about Trump's paperwork. "We were waiting for a pledge from one of the alternate electors. The filing is complete and the Republican ticket should be listed on our site shortly."

posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:11 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


Election 2016: SERENITY NOW!!! [youtube]
posted by lampshade at 9:11 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


And the AP goes full Broder:

It's a conspiracy: The 2016 campaign features one candidate who warned against the "vast right-wing conspiracy" and another who was a leader of the so-called "birther" movement.

Donald Trump and his surrogates hint at a mysterious "illness" afflicting rival Hillary Clinton. Pushing back, Clinton warns of murky ties between Trump and the Russian government, insinuating that her Republican opponent may be a puppet of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Rumors and innuendo long confined to the far reaches of the Internet are dominating the presidential race, forcing Clinton to grapple — once again — with the kinds of whispers that have dogged her family for decades.


You never go full Broder, AP.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:14 AM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


> J.K. Seazer, I unwittingly clicked on your link and the sound startled my cat so much she fell off the bed and ran across the house.

Thanks for the warning; I would otherwise have clicked on the link, and my cat is so relaxed in his beloved cardboard box that I'd feel bad about startling him out of it.

I usually avoid election threads because they're a timesuck and plunge me deeper into the Pickle Jar of Apocalypse than I want to go, but I'm addicted to this one. Shine on, you crazy diamonds!
posted by languagehat at 9:15 AM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]


Donald Trump Close In Latest Swing State Polls

That segment was defining swing states as "Arizona" (GOP governor and legislature, two GOP senators) before a discussion of GA and MO. The map right now is Obama 2012 + NC (347-191), and flipping all of OH, FL, NC, NV and NH all back red (all more imaginable than PA) gets to 275-263.

The swingiest thing in this election right now is Trump's campaign.
posted by holgate at 9:15 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


Rumors and innuendo long confined to the far reaches of the Internet are dominating the presidential race, forcing Clinton to grapple — once again — with the kinds of whispers that have dogged her family for decades.

The Clinton Rules: Still In Effect
There is a liberal critique of the Clinton Foundation, which as recently as last month I found fairly credible, that even if they weren’t doing anything wrong, it created the unnecessary potential appearance of corruption. The view of the Clintons is apparently that literally anything they do will be treated as scandalous so if they think the Clinton Foundation is a net positive it’s worth doing. I suppose both can be true, but the ridiculous reporting this week makes me think that the latter position is more accurate.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:17 AM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]




But Minnesota had little chance of going to Donnie, so what's the fuss?

The failure to file on time in Minnesota is more of an indication of the state of Trump's campaign operation (or, rather, a lack of one) than anything else. It's ridiculous.
posted by My Dad at 9:25 AM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


Is there a word that means 'inadvertently correct typo'?

I read it as a totally advertent typo.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 9:27 AM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]


And failing to make the ballot in Minnesota could have had some serious down-ballot effects.
posted by VTX at 9:29 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


The failure to file on time in Minnesota is more of an indication of the state of Trump's campaign operation (or, rather, a lack of one) than anything else. It's ridiculous.

"We'll outsource all the hard work to the state GOP" is premised on the state party not fucking up the basics, which is not something you should bet your house on.
posted by holgate at 9:29 AM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]


Not sure if this was discussed up-thread, but it's pretty hilarious Trump's "immigration pivot" occurred on the same day as the launch for Ann Coulter's book on Trump.
posted by My Dad at 9:37 AM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


#altrightmeans is trending on Twitter, ahead of Clinton's speech.
posted by Yowser at 9:39 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Excellent news for Jill Stein!

Unfortunately, the news came packaged with thimerosal, so she'll have to "look into it" before she can accept it as good news.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:39 AM on August 25, 2016 [15 favorites]


I think RT will provide a summary for Stein with some useful talking points.
posted by My Dad at 9:41 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


So...538 comments unread, so I may have missed it, but has anyone considered trump was in Austin because of the very large kkk population in the surrounding areas? I lived in out in the country in Leander before it got built up, and the guy who lived next to us was a poohbah in the kkk. They'd have big ol bbqs with scores of their skinheaded friends. I knew of local kkk branches in Bastrop, Buda, San Marcos, Pflugerville and Smithville. Austin was a bastion of hippies until it was defiled by the dellionaires, dotcommers, and silicon valley migrants, but just outside of Austin has always been a hotbed of redneck intolerance.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:42 AM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


There are Manhattans in Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada and Pennsylvania. Can we please include a clause that he and his family live in one of those and leave NYC forever?

Sorry, zarq. NYC created this trash monster; you get to keep him.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:48 AM on August 25, 2016 [10 favorites]


Donald Trump Proposes $550 Billion in New Government Debt

Mr. Trump told Fox Business Network that he would spend “at least double” the amount Hillary Clinton has proposed to rebuild U.S. infrastructure. And he said he would finance that spending with debt.

“We’re going to go out with a fund. We’ll get a fund. We’ll make a phenomenal deal with the low interest rates, and we’re going to have to rebuild our infrastructure,” he said


Sure, get a great deal on a huge loan and rebuild our infrastructure. See, he's a great businessman, qualified people wouldn't think of that!
posted by petebest at 9:49 AM on August 25, 2016 [16 favorites]






I'm beginning the majority of the right is under a Trumps Mirror kind of thing after that Coulter quote and the way I'm always told I'm drinking kool aid after I mention I'm supporting Clinton.

Edit: I should clarify that I do mean majority and not all.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 9:53 AM on August 25, 2016


acidic: [Counter said] "My worship for him is like the people of North Korea worship their Dear Leader -- blind loyalty."

Uh, that's not really as great as you think it is. In fact, it sounds more like a cult than a country.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:57 AM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]




TBF, the MN GOP was really busy this summer making sure we couldn't pass a bonding bill for transportation funding lest we succumb to big light rail.
posted by strange chain at 10:02 AM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


SecretAgentSockpuppet, my comment yesterday about the callers on the radio definitely had that flavor to them. Except the one guy who said he was a Johnson supporter, who went to the rally and may yet be swayed. But the rest of them had either the "law and order" line, or grudgingly admitted that Trump "needed someone like Burns." And every one of the callers talked about the drive in to the city, and how surprised they were at how easy it was to park and get in. Like, what did they expect?
Even within the city limits, the lines of segregation still run deep. Outside the city limits, things get scary real fast.
posted by rp at 10:03 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


>> “We’re going to go out with a fund. We’ll get a fund. We’ll make a phenomenal deal with the low interest rates, and we’re going to have to rebuild our infrastructure,” he said

> Sure, get a great deal on a huge loan and rebuild our infrastructure. See, he's a great businessman, qualified people wouldn't think of that!


but uh what do I do with the cognitive dissonance induced when Trump proposes something that's in broad-strokes terms equivalent to stuff that Krugman's been saying for like a decade?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:03 AM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


finally a person who dares us to think of the grooviness levels of the alt-right
posted by angrycat at 10:07 AM on August 25, 2016 [11 favorites]


Quinnipiac: Hillary Clinton leading Donald Trump nationally by 10 points, 51% to 41%.

In a four-way race, Clinton leads Trump 45% to 38%, with Gary Johnson at 10% and Jill Stein at 4%.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:09 AM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


I was just about to post that!

Also keep in mind that Quinnipiac is an A- pollster and has a slight Trump house effect.
posted by Rhaomi at 10:11 AM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


CNN talking heads, right and left, are flummoxed by Donny's immigration pivot.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:17 AM on August 25, 2016


Is anyone else vaguely worried that Putin seems super involved in this election, and has been known to assassinate his enemies?
posted by corb at 10:17 AM on August 25, 2016 [11 favorites]


I'm in Carson City and was thinking of going to the Reno speech, but my schedule unfortunately doesn't permit it. I'll be livestreaming it, though! I'm excited about this one, though Reno has been the site of a lot of pro-Trump bad behavior over the last year or so:

CBS News embed reports abuse from Trump supporter (the wonderful Sopan Deb)

Hispanic couple's truck vandalized with 'VOTE TRUMP'

"Vote 4 Trump" Spray Painted on Washoe DEMS Sign

So I'm genuinely a little bit worried for her coming here. The Trump supporters aren't super numerous, but they're super assholes.
posted by stolyarova at 10:19 AM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]


And it looks like Trump will be on Anderson Cooper (CNN) tonight at 8 EDT.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:19 AM on August 25, 2016


“We’re going to go out with a fund. We’ll get a fund. We’ll make a phenomenal deal with the low interest rates, and we’re going to have to rebuild our infrastructure,” he said

and


TBF, the MN GOP was really busy this summer making sure we couldn't pass a bonding bill for transportation funding


Maaan. You've really got to bring your cognitive dissonance A game to keep up with the Republicans, aintcha.
posted by Devonian at 10:19 AM on August 25, 2016 [14 favorites]


"We’ll get a fund. We’ll make a phenomenal deal with the low interest rates"

...when Trump proposes something that's in broad-strokes terms equivalent to stuff that Krugman's been saying for like a decade?

T-Bills are basically at 0 if you factor inflation into the yield, but there's the whole constitutional prohibition on stiffing lenders on the public debt, which is what Trump would want to do.
posted by holgate at 10:23 AM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]




(Except in MI, which is apparently bizarro poll country.)

the long reach of the DeVos Mafia...
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:25 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Is anyone else vaguely worried that Putin seems super involved in this election, and has been known to assassinate his enemies?

You mean that he might whack Clinton? Nah. Low level fuckery and exploitation of useful idiots? Sure, why not. Assassinating the obvious next president of the US, while the sitting president is her friend? Not that stupid.

If there were anything more to their relationship than Trump just being a useful idiot, I could sort of see him trying to arrange an accident for Trump to shut him up after he loses the election, if that's what you meant.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:28 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


I try to keep a distance from hate crime vandalism stories that seem too obviously villainous. People on all sides get burnt by those. But if that story pans out, then as far as I'm concerned, the Trump supporters have committed their first murder. Nothing is worth the life of a dog.
posted by Countess Elena at 10:28 AM on August 25, 2016 [19 favorites]


Oh god is this what "fired like a dog" means
posted by theodolite at 10:30 AM on August 25, 2016


A predictable result of all the anti-dog rhetoric.
posted by peeedro at 10:30 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Couple said dog killed, car vandalized over Clinton sign

Jesus. Fuck with someone's dog? What cowards.

As a pacifist who has walked away from someone spitting in my face, I would be sorely tempted to put another sign out and "go second amendment".
posted by notsnot at 10:35 AM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]


The 2016 campaign features one candidate who warned against the 'vast right-wing conspiracy' and another who was a leader of the so-called 'birther' movement.

False equivalence. There was a right-wing conspiracy against the Clintons.

Donald Trump and his surrogates hint at a mysterious 'illness' afflicting rival Hillary Clinton. Pushing back, Clinton warns of murky ties between Trump and the Russian government

Again, false equivalence. There is no evidence of a Clinton illness and there are documented ties between Trump and Russia.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:39 AM on August 25, 2016 [48 favorites]




To Broaden His Base of Support, Donald Trump Humiliates Ann Coulter.

I looked at the comments! Where's the eyebleach?
posted by nubs at 10:42 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


I know this is just stats and MD is gerrymandered as all heck, but go Maryland!

Wait, what does gerrymandering have to do with Presidential preference?
posted by psoas at 10:42 AM on August 25, 2016




Safe to say Trimp's "softening" on immigration will kue "kucks" klamor?
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 10:54 AM on August 25, 2016 [15 favorites]



Clinton not fucking around in her new ad.

"Why do so many Ku Klux Klan members support Trump?

"A lot of what he believes, we believe in."


Part of me feels like this is a great and needed ad.

The other part felt like I was living in a sick dream world where this ad even needs to exist. "I am watching an American election ad about the white supremicy of an actual candidate and it is NOT one side playing the hyperbole smear game. wth? * mutter, mutter * I'm going to go hide in my bed until I wake up..."
posted by Jalliah at 10:57 AM on August 25, 2016 [20 favorites]


"Why do so many Ku Klux Klan members support Trump?

"A lot of what he believes, we believe in."


First reply is predictably Hillary's friendship with the late Robert Byrd. Never mind that he disavowed KKK ties, repudiated his racist view and worked hard to fix the damage he had caused. It's the same intellectual dishonesty that the Republicans claim to be the party of Lincoln while completely ignoring their southern strategy.
posted by Talez at 10:58 AM on August 25, 2016 [24 favorites]


Prediction: as Trump's defeat becomes ever more inevitable, he will start to lash out against the American people as a whole, supporters and opponents alike. He'll say something like "if you're too dumb to get behind me, you deserve to live in a failing country." Paul Ryan and Reince Priebus will continue to say nothing in response. Years later, as the economy continues to improve under Hillary, Trump will spend his last breaths lamenting that we all could have been spared this disaster if it weren't for the weak American people turning against him in a moment of cowardice. 30% of the country will tearfully agree with him.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 11:01 AM on August 25, 2016 [16 favorites]


How many more hours steer expecting this "softening" to last, BTW?
posted by Artw at 11:01 AM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


I think he's in it for the long haul. We're talking midway through dinnertime.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:06 AM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]


Carson speaking now, defending Trumps racial remarks.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:06 AM on August 25, 2016


And it looks like Trump will be on Anderson Cooper (CNN) tonight at 8 EDT.

He's so insecure that he hasn't been on a non-Fox show in eons but he suddenly scheduled himself on the exact show Hillary called into last night?
posted by sallybrown at 11:09 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


> To Broaden His Base of Support, Donald Trump Humiliates Ann Coulter.

I looked at the comments! Where's the eyebleach?


I misty be too used to Twitter.. I looked at them and thought "These are pretty rational and thoughtful comments for the Internet. "
posted by happyroach at 11:11 AM on August 25, 2016


It begins.

Notes he won first primary in NH. Mentions the heroin problem..
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:13 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


The other part felt like I was living in a sick dream world where this ad even needs to exist. "I am watching an American election ad about the white supremicy of an actual candidate and it is NOT one side playing the hyperbole smear game. wth? * mutter, mutter * I'm going to go hide in my bed until I wake up..."

I have bad news for you, it's typically difficult-to-impossible to read in dreams for any sustained amount of time.* So if you're reading the Threads, you're probably awake.

*as a lucid dreamer, I am occasionally able to do this. It's easier to read music than text, oddly.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:18 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]




DJT: Voices not heard, etc. Hillary is for the powerful

(Lock her up)

DJT: Special interests pay for Hillary speeches, own the media, pay for Hillary speeches (again), donate to the Foundation.

DJt: NH is staying where it is in the primaries, there's been talk of moving it to the back of the pack.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:19 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


First reply is predictably Hillary's friendship with the late Robert Byrd. Never mind that he disavowed KKK ties, repudiated his racist view and worked hard to fix the damage he had caused. It's the same intellectual dishonesty that the Republicans claim to be the party of Lincoln while completely ignoring their southern strategy.

If they cared about facts they wouldn't be Trump supporters.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:25 AM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]


Hard to keep up.

DJT: veil is pulled back on the vast criminal enterprise. Half her meetings were with donors. Hard to tell where foundation ends and State dept begins. Mentions sale of Unranium to Russsia, favorable treatment for UBS, discussion of that guy who wanted the appointment he didn't get. Only tip of the iceberg. Her actions were of a great criminal enterprise.

(Lock her up)

DJT: She created an illegal private email server to hide her corrupt dealings, knowing it would put American lives at risk. People who did 2%d what she did, their lives were destroyed. To cover her crimes she deleted 33000 emails. She claimed under penalty of perjury she turned over all her work emails. We now know t to be massive lie. Found 15000 more work emails she did not disclose. It's watergate all over again. She's being protected by our govt. She sold her office to foreign governments. Her lie that she never sent any email marked classified. Corruption we're used to seeing in a third world country.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:26 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


*rushes out of store to make sure and get home in time for Clinton's speech from Reno*
*checks countdown for the livestream*

I came to see Hillary kick ass and to eat breakfast tacos and it turns out I still have time to make breakfast tacos.
posted by EatTheWeek at 11:27 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


Half her meetings were with donors.

Great job AP! Such fucking bullshit.
posted by chris24 at 11:29 AM on August 25, 2016 [18 favorites]


I thought Trump just did a town hall...is it not broadcast anywhere yet?
posted by agregoli at 11:30 AM on August 25, 2016


< Jon Stewart Predicted Donald Trump: ‘The First Openly Asshole President’

The Onion predicted Turnip in 2012.
posted by guiseroom at 11:30 AM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


ChurchHatesTucker, I don't know how you do it, but thank you
posted by schadenfrau at 11:31 AM on August 25, 2016 [10 favorites]


The bottom banner thingy on MSNBC is currently:

TRUMP: CLINTON IN HIDING (SHE'S SPEAKING IN MINUTES)
posted by Justinian at 11:31 AM on August 25, 2016 [43 favorites]


Yesterday afternoon I was listening to NPR and the announcer said,

"Today, Clinton proposed the creation of a rapid response team for emerging public health crises such as Zika. Trump, speaking in Austin, said Latinos and African-Americans have the right to walk down the street without being shot."


Well, thanks, Donald Trump! What a brave and controversial policy position you've taken, there! Talk about setting the bar high...

"Vote for me! I think you have the right to walk down the street without being shot!"
posted by staggering termagant at 11:31 AM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


Funny how in this thread about the presidential election, every time you folks start transcribing direct quotes from currently occurring Donald Trump speeches, I feel an intense urge to flag all your comments as Noise/Derail.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:33 AM on August 25, 2016 [16 favorites]


DJT: Imagine if she sold the Oval Office as she sold her office in State. BTW, look at the polls we're doing very we'll. Vote to protect your family, for honor, integrity. Hillary has been hiding, where is she? I hear she'll be making a quick statement tonight. She's emerging not to take responsibility but to distract. I've heard about it. I don't want to dignify here statements, but a response is required. Reports are that she's going to try to smear this campaign and all of you. It's a movement. Going to accuse decent Americans of being racists, which we're not. It's ath oldest play in the Dem. Playbook. It's a tired disgusting argument and it's so predictable. Last refuge of Dem politician. They keep going to that well, it's dry.

DJT: Say the word enough. This is the year people who've been betrayed by Dem policy, including millions of AAs, reject. They've failed them. Dem politicians have run nearly every city for years. Their policies have produced more poverty, failing schools. Policies have failed, but she doesn't care. Too busy raking in cash, and after the election say8iang see you in 4 years.

DJT: 4 in 10 in poverty, many shot. These are the policies of HRC and people like here. Brought pain to inner cities. Wants to raise taxes on AA biz to nearly 50%. We should be helping those businesses, HRC trying to shut them down.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:34 AM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


Great job AP! Such fucking bullshit.

This was posted back in May: Donald Trump Might Be the New Puke Funnel
So is Donald Trump is becoming the new "puke funnel" -- a one-man conduit directing (or redirecting) sleazy stories from the fringe to the legitimate press? "Puke funnel" was James Carville's term for a process that was described this way in a memo from Clinton World in the days of Bill's administration[...]

Trump might now be in the process of replacing several of those steps with, well, himself.

But he can do that only if the press allows him to. Are journalists going to let Trump funnel puke into their stories? Are they going to treat any swill he stirs up as legitimate news? It's their choice.
I guess we have our answer.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:36 AM on August 25, 2016 [18 favorites]


DJT: Voices not heard, etc. Hillary is for the powerful

Thanks for the play-by-play CHT. It is appreciated.

(what follows is a general re-post that I throw out there when The Donald is on TV and it annoys me. The links are very much non-partisan. I only post it once per MF Election mega-thread iteration.)

74 Days until the 2016 US General Election. Do you know where your ballot is going? Links to all sorts of advice on the matter and the election mega-thread here!

How to Vote in Every State (YouTube Channel | URL links on right side of page)
U.S. Election Assistance Commission: Resources for Voters (eac.gov)
Can I Vote? National Association of Secretaries of State (canivote.org)
Student Voting Guide - Brennan Center for Justice (brennancenter.org)
Campus Vote Project (campusvoteproject.org)
Voting and Elections - Find answers to common questions about voting in the US. (usa.gov)
Early Voting Calendar (vote.org)
Absentee and Early Voting - National Conference of State Legislatures (ncsl.org)
posted by lampshade at 11:36 AM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]


What will the world look like in four years if DJT does win? Like what will his campaign be when we're all eating shit sandwiches in dystopia instead of the advertised white, crimeless utopia?

Do you think he could survive another campaign based on bravado and machismo about problems being "easy" to solve?
posted by Talez at 11:37 AM on August 25, 2016


Last refuge of Dem politician.

Trump last night: Hillary is a bigot!
Trump today: Accusations of bigotry are a tactic of last resort!
posted by zombieflanders at 11:37 AM on August 25, 2016 [30 favorites]


Vagendaofmanocide.com now redirects to the Hillary Clinton donation page.

"When life gives us vagendas, make vagendanade."
posted by Metroid Baby at 11:38 AM on August 25, 2016 [37 favorites]


Do you think he could survive another campaign based on bravado and machismo about problems being "easy" to solve?
You're obviously assuming there would be a campaign. Speculation beyond the available facts, counselor.
posted by adamgreenfield at 11:39 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


Do you think he could survive another campaign based on bravado and machismo about problems being "easy" to solve?

I don't know what he can survive, but we certainly can't.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 11:40 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


It's watergate all over again.

Watergate was a break-in at the DNC that was intended to be used for political gain. Just sayin'.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:40 AM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


What will the world look like in four years if DJT does win?

I shudder to think..........
posted by lampshade at 11:40 AM on August 25, 2016


DJT: She supports regulations that put AAs out of a job and raise energy prices, supports policy that makes it hard to raise child. You see it all the time people walking with their child and they get shot. What the hell do you have to lose?

(USA!)

DJT: We will fix it. They won't, it's just words. I put up my money. Nobody is going to call me and we're going to move it to Mexico. We're going to make it so you can raise you8r family, not be shot. It's a civil rights issue. Demi's are destroying those people. HRC doesn't want to talk about any of this. Horrible record. She doesn't have one proposal that hasn't been tried and failed. It's going to be a disaster. Her trade deals are a disaster. She lies. She's going to paint you as racists. Same tactics that the Brits used to scare people. Call me Mr. Brexit.

DJT: Time the Clintons where held accountable.

(Lock her up)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:40 AM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


He meant Whitewater, I think? LOL.
posted by stolyarova at 11:41 AM on August 25, 2016


Vagendaofmanocide.com now redirects to the Hillary Clinton donation page.

And I just made my first (small) donation, thanks to that. So, well done, random Internet wag.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 11:42 AM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]


DJT: You can see the anger when law enforcement gives her a free pass. According to the book game change, Bill Clintion said of BHO 'a few years ago he would have been getting us coffee."

DJT: She wants to attack people who are part of this movement. We can't let that stand. She falsely smears republicans with racism, republicans back down. Not Donald Trump. Demi's push policies devastating to people of color. We must break this cycle.

DJT: Let me make some statements. First on th eBorder people who want their laws enforced are not racists. It doesn't make you racist it makes you smart.

(Build that wall)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:45 AM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


His projection is off the charts.
posted by stolyarova at 11:47 AM on August 25, 2016 [10 favorites]


Bannon is crazy skilled at manipulating the American id.
posted by Talez at 11:47 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


If Trump wins, I think the GOP elite have unspoken plans to turn on him ASAP. They want the masses he promised, but they don't want him. They'll find a way to get Pence inaugurated by 2018. I expect it will be impeachment over the Trump University suit, which will suddenly concern them very much indeed. In any case, I hope never to find out.
posted by Countess Elena at 11:49 AM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]


Bannon is crazy skilled at manipulating...

...about half of white America. The other half and pretty much all people of color are appalled.
posted by chris24 at 11:49 AM on August 25, 2016 [38 favorites]


This is a crazy speech. This is exactly what Orwell warned us about.
posted by Talez at 11:50 AM on August 25, 2016 [23 favorites]


DJT: We will build the wall. Media says we won't. We will. Mexico is making a fortune with us. Mexico will pay for the wall. People want their country kept safe. I will never apologize for upholding laws for our people. Never apologize for making it my priority on immigration to make it safe for Americans. Restore constitutional rule of law.

DJT: Next on national security, people who speak out on Radical Islam are not islamophobejs. They want to keep terror out. If the choice is between saving lives and appeasing political correctness that's the easiest choice. Thousands and thousands being brought in from Syria, they don't have paperwork, nobody can vet them. HRC wants to increase 550%

DJT: Now on crime, people who support the police are not predjudiced. There is no compassion in tolerating crime, drug dealing,

[feed interrupted]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:50 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


Trump on Immigration: Schrodinger's Candidate

Trump praised Operation Wetback again (without using the name) in January:
During an interview with Jake Tapper that aired Sunday on "State of the Union," Tapper noted that many people recall the 1954 operation as a "shameful chapter in American history."

"Well, some people do, and some people think it was a very effective chapter," Trump replied. "When they brought them back (to Mexico), they removed some, everybody else left," Trump said. "And it was very successful, everyone said. So I mean, that's the way it is. Look, we either have a country, or we don't. If we don't have strong borders, we have a problem."
I am very disturbed by Donald Trump's failure to use the term "Operation Wetback."
posted by kirkaracha at 11:52 AM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


Alternative feed for CHT.

Lee Atwater didn't die. His soul was just released from its host, tortured some more in hell and then reinserted into Steve Bannon.
posted by Talez at 11:52 AM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


TRUMP: CLINTON IN HIDING (SHE'S SPEAKING IN MINUTES)

I hope the chyron people collectively win Time's Person of the Year or something. They're solidly on point.

(Build that wall)

I can just about deal with the transcribed mouthgarble hate speech from Trump; it's loathesome but I've become depressingly inured over these many months. But seeing the parenthetical chants make me feel afraid and angry and frustrated and sad. Every time.

Seventy-four days until the storm passes. Then we have to inspect the devastation.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:53 AM on August 25, 2016 [19 favorites]


I went to my cell phone store this AM, last time I was there it was in the days leading up to the Illinois primary. Back in March the store was crowded about a half hour before closing, everyone waiting on something and the store having technical issues so we were all just stuck for a bit. It being the Chicago loop after hours we were a diverse lot and while we were waiting people started discussing the primary. It was easy to talk politics as we were all Dems, or at least all that spoke up were. The women were all very pro Hillary, men less so. The regular guy I deal with there, a young African American man was for Bernie thru and thru. He was determined that even though Hillary would take Illinois, Bernie was picking up steam and the nomination would be decided at the convention.

Cut to today. I go in and he says 'Hey, long time no see' and says something about how this election has sure gotten strange. I say the weirdest I've ever seen. I asked if he was with Hillary and he said that no, he could not do that and started talking about the Clinton Foundation and pay to play with the State Dept. He says he can't willingly vote a crook in to office. I asked whether he was comfortable letting Trump get ahead and he said they are both crooks, he'll just sit this one out.

The recent Clinton Foundation stuff really resonated with him. I was shocked. If people are looking for a reason to NOT back Hillary, even though they know she's the best choice, if they give in to their prejudices, the idea that the Clintons set up a foundation so they could continue to be in the game and also just perhaps use it for their own ends...
I've been thinking about this since I got back. I know it's just one guy, but he had given it careful thought and come to that conclusion. So now I have a knot of worry.
posted by readery at 11:54 AM on August 25, 2016 [25 favorites]


Aaaannd, my boss just put up a Trump yard sign here at work. Great. Get to spend the next 74 days looking at that fucking thing.
posted by wallabear at 11:54 AM on August 25, 2016 [11 favorites]


It must be noted that, based on his business history dealing with investors, contractors and employees, the people most likely to be hurt badly by him are those who support him. The 'soft supporters' ("at least he's not Hillary") would suffer severe buyers' remorse, (the 'small business owners' will be shocked to see all the tax cuts going to those with incomes 10X them) but the 'alt-right'? If you think there's a danger of violence from white terrorists when he loses, it'll be only worse if he wins and reverts to his "I got power, I'm using it all for MY benefit, nobody else" behavior. I've said before he'll probably build some part of his "wall", with some company he owns/controls as prime contractor (and not caring WHO pays for it, as long as HE gets paid), but now that he's talking about billions for "infrastructure", you've got to know he intends to own (or at least put his name on and collect royalties for) everything that gets built.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:57 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]




...about half of white America. The other half and pretty much all people of color are appalled.

You sure? He's going ultra-fucking hard on explicitly helping blacks and legal latinos.
posted by Talez at 11:59 AM on August 25, 2016


[new feed]

DJT: Easy to ignore concerns of communities about radical Islam when you spend all your time in palaces. Easy to ignore ravages of crime whe she has own armed security. She wants to get rid of 2nd amendment . She should request her USSS drop all weapons. People have demanded immigration enforced and jobs protected. Elites only want to raise more money from global corps. Inner cities have failed under Dem policies. Time for a new day, and a new dawn in America. On Nov. 8th we will end the rule of special interests.Break free from the past and create a new future. We can be greater than ever before. AA and Latino citizens will have the time of their lives. Not going to allow companies to leave and sell their product back into our country. I'm asking for AA and Lations who want to see for the first time a future that is jobs jobs jobs. Education education. Stand up to countries that cheat. Lower taxes and create new jobs. Energy revolution. Kill job kill regs. Repeal/replace ObamaCare. Enforce immigration laws. American workers first. That includes Hispanic and AAs. Crush ISIS. Keep Islamic terror out of our country.

DJT: we will reject bigotry in all forms. We will have a nation the likes the world has never seen. We will have common dreams. We will have a purpose. We wil do so withougt apology. We will make America prosperous, proud, safe again.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:59 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


DJT: we will make America great again. Thank you and God bless.

[Exeunt]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:00 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


You sure? He's going ultra-fucking hard on explicitly helping blacks and legal latinos.

He's not saying that shit for black and latin@ people's benefit, and they're not, polls show, buying it.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:01 PM on August 25, 2016 [27 favorites]


You sure? He's going ultra-fucking hard on explicitly helping blacks and legal latinos.

I'll let Charles Blow respond.

"It’s the kind of bigotry that says, “I will knock you down while I pretend to pick you up,” it’s the kind of bigotry that says, “I am urinating on you and telling you to dance in the rain.” This is the most horrible kind of bigotry. The fact that people keep asking the same question, particularly to black commentators like me, is he reaching out to black people, he is not reaching out to black people."

And really everybody should watch the video. Amazing.
posted by chris24 at 12:02 PM on August 25, 2016 [52 favorites]


You sure? He's going ultra-fucking hard on explicitly helping blacks and legal latinos.

Sure, but... are those populations made up entirely of total morons with no ability to remember what he's said before about them?

Like, I understand the worries, I really do, but can we please please please have just the tiniest bit of faith that POC are smarter than this?
posted by palomar at 12:02 PM on August 25, 2016 [24 favorites]


You sure? He's going ultra-fucking hard on explicitly helping blacks and legal latinos.

When you have to say "I am not a [thing people are saying about me]," you just remind them that you either are that thing, or that you've done enough to make people think you are. Remember Christine O'Donnell?
posted by zombieflanders at 12:04 PM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


Hillary alt-right speech
posted by box at 12:04 PM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


He was determined that even though Hillary would take Illinois, Bernie was picking up steam and the nomination would be decided at the convention ... he had given it careful thought

Like, for reals, the first is very strong evidence that he didn't do the second.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:05 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


Is there a transcript/script for the alt-right speech?
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:06 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


You sure? He's going ultra-fucking hard on explicitly helping blacks and legal latinos.

Sure, but... are those populations made up entirely of total morons with no ability to remember what he's said before about them


It's not for them, it's for the "normal" Republicans. He's trying to pitch the idea you can vote for him and not explicitly be a racist arsewipe.

Not true, but they were already republicans so pretty happy in that zone of dog-whistling denial.
posted by Artw at 12:06 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


There is so much copypasta on the YouTube stream of HRC's upcoming speech, it's unreadable.
posted by tomierna at 12:06 PM on August 25, 2016


That alt right link upthread went to Trump. :(
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:10 PM on August 25, 2016


Oh, they fixed it now. Sorry.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:11 PM on August 25, 2016


this works for me
YouTube
posted by Golem XIV at 12:12 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


Remember that Donald Trump's 'pivot' started with in a town that was less than 1% black saying "My question to black people is 'what the hell have you got to lose'?" That's not a pitch actually being made to black people as the answer is something like "Our homes, our votes, our jobs". It's a pitch being made to sound as if he's making a pitch to black people.
posted by Francis at 12:14 PM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]


It begins.

It's like some sort of HP Lovecraft event both in terms of elder horror and racism. I appreciate you risking your sanity again and again for us, ChurchHatesTucker (and all of you who have been love blogging his little talks). When you stare into the gaping orange lips of insanity, those lips stare into you.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:15 PM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]


Hillary is up.

HRC: When I'm in Reno, I'm The Other Hillary. Your mayor is doing a terrific job. (Praises Reno and attendees and the Community College)

HRC: My original plan for the visit was to focus on plans for small businesses. I want to be a smalbiz president. We'll talk more later.

HRC: Today I want to address something. People tell me how concerned they are by the divide rhetoric coming from DJT. Something we've never heard before. From the start DJT has built his campaign on paranoia. He is taking hate groups mainstream. Dangerous. Just this past week DJT has described black communities in horrible terms. Right now he says you can walk down the street and get shot. How sad. He misses so much. Doesn't see black businesses, chu8rches. Apparently didn't see the chief of Dalas conducting himself with dignity. It takes a lot of nerve to ask people What do you have to lose? Answer is Everthing.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:17 PM on August 25, 2016 [32 favorites]


HRC quotes Maya Angelou: “When someone shows you who they are believe them; the first time.”
posted by filthy light thief at 12:20 PM on August 25, 2016 [19 favorites]


Hillary is running down a list of Trump's racist acts and actions.

Slowly. And with the pause and seriousness this history deserves.
posted by cashman at 12:21 PM on August 25, 2016 [60 favorites]


Hey, she's good. What's her name again?
posted by petebest at 12:22 PM on August 25, 2016 [15 favorites]


> Hey, she's good. What's her name again?

Manocide. Vagenda Manocide.
posted by Tevin at 12:24 PM on August 25, 2016 [74 favorites]


all of you who have been love blogging his little talks

I didn't think we had any MeFites like that.

not that there's anything wrong with it
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:24 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


"His latest paranoid fever dream is about my health. And all I can say, Donald, is 'dream on.'"
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:24 PM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]


That one person who cheered for Alex Jones...
posted by defenestration at 12:25 PM on August 25, 2016


"His latest paranoid fever dream is about my health. And all I can say, Donald, is 'dream on.'"

The chants from the audience? "Hil-a-ree, Hil-a-ree, Hil-a-ree!"
posted by filthy light thief at 12:26 PM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


HRC: what he's doing is offering dog whistle to hateful supporters. He should never run our govt or command our military. If he doesn't respect all Americans how can he serve all Americans. Some people want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Hard to believe someone really believes all the things he says. There is no other Trump. This is it.

HRC: When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. DJT has show us, we should believe him. When he got his start in business he was sued. Twice. Patter continued. Fined one of his casinos for removing black dealers from the floor. Led the charge for Birthers. 2015 described Mexicans as rapists, criminals. BTW, Mexico isn't paying for his wall. We'll be stuck with the bill.

HRC: Said a judge couldn't do his job because he's a Mexican. (Praises judge) Even Paul Ryan called it textbook racism. DJT has never aplpologizedd. He retweets white supremacists, spreads their message to 11 million people. Mentions the star, delegate who was dropped. Refused to rebuke Duke. When asked about anti-Semitic slurs, refused to condem. Thousands of Muslims in NJ. Cruz' father and the Kennedy assassination . Recently claimed Obama founded ISIS, over and over. Latest fever dream is about my health (heh) Dream on.

(Hillary!)

HRC: This is what happens when you treat the National Enquirere like gospel. It's what happens when you listen to Alex Jones who said 911 was inside job and nobody was killed in Sandy Hook. Trump went on his show, told him his rep was amazing.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:27 PM on August 25, 2016 [26 favorites]


What's up with the crowd noise in the Youtube feed? Are they really being this quiet? Chatter keeps cutting in and out. It sounds like people are interrupting and someone is holding down a mute button.
posted by EatTheWeek at 12:27 PM on August 25, 2016


Hillary: "Look at the policies Trump has proposed. They would put prejudice into practice."
posted by cashman at 12:27 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


Donny: Temperamentally unfit to be President
posted by filthy light thief at 12:28 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Please shout "I may have the body of a weak and feeble woman but I have the heart and stomach of a king! AND A KING OF ENGLAND TOO!". Pleasepleaseplease.
posted by PenDevil at 12:28 PM on August 25, 2016 [13 favorites]


What's up with the crowd noise in the Youtube feed?

Not sure, but I'm watching on MSNBC and the speech is phenomenal. Hillary sounds great, the crowd can't be heard unless they're cheering, and the words are coming through loud and clear.
posted by cashman at 12:29 PM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


Can't wait for the Donald tweet freakout from this.
posted by chris24 at 12:29 PM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


To be honest, it's like she read some of these mefi threads, took notes, and is speaking it out to the nation. She has hit so many of the major points we've discussed.
posted by cashman at 12:30 PM on August 25, 2016 [36 favorites]


"He's had to fire so many campaign managers it's like an episode from The Apprentice."
posted by chris24 at 12:31 PM on August 25, 2016 [28 favorites]


Reading headlines from Breitbart. "Birth Control Makes Women Unattractive and Crazy." "Would You Rather Your Child Had Feminism or Cancer." "Gabby Giffords: The Gun Control Movement's Human Shield."
posted by Mothlight at 12:31 PM on August 25, 2016 [18 favorites]


HRC: Donny says he hires only the best people, but he fires so many people it feels like an episode of The Apprentice.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:31 PM on August 25, 2016 [13 favorites]


HRC: Don't need loose canon in the situation room. DJT is temperamentally unfit. Some say it's just overheated rhetoric, but look at his policies. They would put prejudice into practice. He may have new people putting words in his mouth, but we know where he stands. Mentions deportation force, preventing anchor babies, religious ban. Wonders how ban would work. America has distinguished itself as a religious haven. Under DJT American would be the only country in the world with a religious test. Except perhaps the Islamic State.

HRC: Some will hay he'll have smart advisors. Maybe. But look at who he put in charge of his campaign. He's fired so many managers it's like The Apprentice. The latest shakeup is to let trump be trump. So he hired Banon, head of Brietbart. (Reads headlines.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:31 PM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]


Haha, from the crowd: "NOT OKAY!"
posted by EatTheWeek at 12:32 PM on August 25, 2016 [11 favorites]


Chasing after that lucrative Metafilter demographic.
posted by Yowser at 12:32 PM on August 25, 2016 [29 favorites]


Props to Clinton for this speech. It's much needed.

She's starting in on the alt-right specifics now.
posted by defenestration at 12:33 PM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]


She's doing Bill's thumb gesture. <3
posted by stolyarova at 12:33 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm only following on here (cause my sanity can't handle it otherwise), but it sounds like not only does Hillary have a great speech, shes also trying to goad Trump into saying something dumb. Has she gone after him this directly prior to now?
posted by Twain Device at 12:34 PM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]


Did I hear someone shout out "pepe" when she mentioned the alt-right?
posted by Bookhouse at 12:34 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


This speech better be remembered.
posted by rp at 12:34 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


She's knocking it out the park with this speech. I really want her to end with an animated recitation of The New Colossus -> mic drop
posted by Somn at 12:35 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


My god. Hillary giving Farage a good shoeing. That I should live to see the day.
posted by Devonian at 12:35 PM on August 25, 2016 [34 favorites]


"There's an old Mexican proverb: tell me with whom you walk and I will tell you who you are. Well, we know who Trump is."
posted by Mothlight at 12:36 PM on August 25, 2016 [50 favorites]


This speech is fantastic. So on point.
posted by defenestration at 12:36 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


MAKE AMERICA HATE AGAIN!
posted by yellowbinder at 12:37 PM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]


Chasing after that lucrative Metafilter demographic.

I mean if she didn't have me already, she'd have me now. But the speech is so much bigger than even our threads. She's brought in so many things we haven't even gone into. I like this speech a lot because so many times I get annoyed since there is a mountain of evidence against Trump, and it's often a pain in the ass to bring it all back up, because why are we even having a discussion where Trump is a legitimate candidate.

I'm glad she ran down the list of all this mess. And the delivery is near perfect, for my needs.
posted by cashman at 12:37 PM on August 25, 2016 [20 favorites]




"This is a moment of reckoning for every Republican dismayed that the party of Lincoln has become the party of Trump. It's a moment of reckoning for all of us who love our country and believe that America is better than this."
posted by Mothlight at 12:38 PM on August 25, 2016 [22 favorites]


HRC: Banon has nasty things to say about everyone. Railed against Ryan for rubbing his social justice Catholicism in his nose. Brietbart is the extremist fringe of the right. Not conservative . Racist, anti feminism. Alt-Right (reads definition) The defectors merger between trump and Brietbart is the fringe taking over the Republican Party. Calls Farange right wing. Called on baring children of legal immigrants from schools and public health services. The godfather of this brand is Putin. Farange and Trump praise Putin, and favore pro-Russian policies. American presidents rejected the approach to Russia.

HRC: There's always been a fringe, never had a national megaphone until now. David Duke's radio show was jubilant. No illusions about what's going on. Name have changed but the hate burns just as bright. Old Mexican proverb: tell me with who you walk and I will tell you who you are. A few words on a TelePrompTer won't change that. His message is Make America Hate Again.

HRC:It's about the example we want to set for our children. Parents and teachers worried about trump effect. Bullying up. They see it in a presidential campaign and now it's OK.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:38 PM on August 25, 2016 [22 favorites]


Hillary is running down a list of Trump's racist acts and actions.

I don't know if her team pulled a fast one by claiming this was going to be a speech about Trump's supporters rather than Trump himself, but if so, so far it seems like a really fucking smart move. Now he has to respond personally, and that never goes well for him. His claim that she was going to go after his supporters falls flat, and the dank (bigoted) maymay crowd doesn't get the amount of attention they thought they would. Plus, it won't be just his spokesdroids going on the teevee to defend him, his dignity wraiths (h/t: Josh Marshall) like Rubio and McCain and Ryan will have to do it too.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:40 PM on August 25, 2016 [17 favorites]


"Every day more Americans are standing up and saying enough is enough, including a lot of Republicans, and I am honored to have their support in this campaign."

"I will be a president ... for those who vote for me and for those who vote against me. I will be a president for all Americans."
posted by Mothlight at 12:40 PM on August 25, 2016 [10 favorites]


This speech is targeted to give GOP leadership one last chance, I think.
posted by Yowser at 12:40 PM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]


Students use 'Trump' as anti-Latino taunt during basketball game (CNN, March 1, 2016)
Fans of Andrean High School held up a picture of GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump and shouted chants like "Build a Wall" during a basketball game against Bishop Noll Institute on Friday in Merrillville, Indiana.
...
"In the foyer where both teams mingled before we get to the parking lot, Dallas Center-Grimes started the chant of 'USA, USA' directed mostly at our Latino kids. We were able to stop that fairly quickly," said Marburger. In response to the taunt a Perry student shouted back, "I was born in Dallas County, just like you," said Marburger.
Fffuuuuuu....
posted by filthy light thief at 12:40 PM on August 25, 2016 [19 favorites]


Oh, my goodness. She looks like the Statue of Liberty today. That color? Intentional hagiography?
posted by stolyarova at 12:41 PM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]


HRC: It's a moment of reckoning for republican. Bob dole told racists to get out. GWB went to a mosque. McCain defended Obama. We need that leadership again.

HRC: We can have our disagreements. That's healthy. But we need to do it in a respectful way. Not stirring up prejudice. More and more are standing up and I am honored to have their support. I'll be a president for all Americans. Be causer I believe we are stronger together. The young people are the most open diverse generation ever.

HRC: Look at the diversity of our athletes.

[feed glitched]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:42 PM on August 25, 2016 [10 favorites]


This speech is the most awesome speech I have heard Hillary Clinton make. It's even better than her convention speech, in my humble opinion--and that's a high, high bar. She makes you believe that she understands and feels the danger of a Trump campaign and a potential Trump presidency, and she feels it strongly enough to spend a campaign speech telling us why.

I'm stunned.
posted by Silverstone at 12:42 PM on August 25, 2016 [23 favorites]


She's ringing all the bells today. Holy shit.
posted by rp at 12:42 PM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


Oh, my goodness. She looks like the Statue of Liberty today. That color? Intentional hagiography?

Great catch. When she first walked up, my brain said 'she reminds of something'. Perfect.
posted by cashman at 12:43 PM on August 25, 2016 [13 favorites]


But the speech is so much bigger than even our threads.

Oh god, that poor audience!
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:43 PM on August 25, 2016 [35 favorites]


That's what I call kicking ass and taking names.
posted by chris24 at 12:44 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


Looks like it's over.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:44 PM on August 25, 2016


She looks like the Statue of Liberty today.

(fwiw...due to fire code, open flame torches of liberty not allowed in the venue)
posted by lampshade at 12:44 PM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


That was really good. Not just the speech, but her delivery. She's getting better and better at this. Stentorian when she needs to be and intense and focused when she ventures into the Trumpian shadows. If she can perform like this on the debate stage, someone's going to have to be standing by just to mop up the blood.
posted by Mothlight at 12:46 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


I like how she's repeated all of Trump's early madness on banning Muslims, deporting every illegal and all that. He's clearly trying to find a way to seem to roll some of those back, but he's never retracted any of them - hence, no doubt, the pause between him signalling a change and his big fat delayed immigration speech. So now, if he does pivot on that it'll look as if he's been beaten ("By a girl!") and if he doesn't, he's stuck with no way to even pretend to appeal to non-whites and these as talking points all the way to November.

Good timing, ma'am.
posted by Devonian at 12:46 PM on August 25, 2016 [20 favorites]


Looks like it's over.

Can't wait until I can say that about Trump's candidacy.
posted by cashman at 12:46 PM on August 25, 2016 [15 favorites]


Explain to me why she isn't 20 points ahead please?
posted by Francis at 12:47 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


(fwiw...due to fire code, open flame torches of liberty not allowed in the venue)

You know that Cinna is fuming backstage.
posted by sparklemotion at 12:47 PM on August 25, 2016 [25 favorites]


In two weeks we'll find out the reason Kellyanne Conway was fired was for managing to keep his phone away from him for the next 8 hours or so.
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:47 PM on August 25, 2016 [21 favorites]


Because she's been Red Team's Big Bad for 25 years.
posted by stolyarova at 12:48 PM on August 25, 2016 [17 favorites]


acidic: Big problem for Trump: Every single person HRC is calling out by name will LOVE it and take every TV interview request they get this week.

That's only great if their friends and family also support them and their views, otherwise you'll get something like that coffee making bro whose grandmother called him on his MRA bullshit.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:48 PM on August 25, 2016


Damn, a few weeks ago it seemed like the worst attack HFA was willing to make was that Trump imported his shitty clothes.
posted by theodolite at 12:49 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Damn, a few weeks ago it seemed like the worst attack HFA was willing to make was that Trump imported his shitty clothes.

I guess Hill was willing to ... wait for it.
>sunglasses<
>smash cut to Hamilton soundtrack<
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 12:51 PM on August 25, 2016 [30 favorites]


Since this is the election thread, it's time for a referendum: Should I go bake a pie or continue refreshing Twitter for the next hour?
posted by stolyarova at 12:52 PM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]


stolyarova: Oh, my goodness. She looks like the Statue of Liberty today.

The Statue of Liberty (Liberty Enlightening the World) is a representation of a woman on a pedestal, though one who welcomes people to the US (or at least to the New York harbor) and shines a symbolic light.

HRC is a real woman who's getting shit done, often without as much notice or recognition as she may be due. Still, nice symbolism, even if it's unintentional.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:52 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


ALWAYS THE ANSWER IS PIE.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:53 PM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]


PIE! PIE! PIE!

And then Twitter, while you wait for the pie to finish baking. Then if Twitter gets you down, you'll still have a delicious pie.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:53 PM on August 25, 2016 [19 favorites]


She can be a real (and super competent and effective) human being who sees the power of channeling one of America's best symbols, too.
posted by stolyarova at 12:55 PM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


(But sometimes, like math class, the answer might be π for a while.)
posted by wenestvedt at 12:55 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


THE QUESTION IS PIE IS THE ANSWER IS YES
posted by entropicamericana at 12:55 PM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]


What do we want? PIE!
When do we want it? PIE!
posted by LegallyBread at 12:57 PM on August 25, 2016 [31 favorites]


I think generally that one of the Clinton campaign's most effective moves (including and since the DNC) has been reclaiming sincere patriotism. They've done it beautifully.
posted by stolyarova at 12:57 PM on August 25, 2016 [44 favorites]


Because she's been Red Team's Big Bad for 25 years.

And she has a hidden vagenda.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:58 PM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]


BUILD THAT PIE!
BAKE IT UP!
WOLF IT DOWN!

BETTER TOGETHER (WITH PIE)

Ain't no pie tin deep enough
Ain't no oven hot enough

I am Devonian, and I endorse this pie.
posted by Devonian at 12:58 PM on August 25, 2016 [21 favorites]


The pie just got ten times fruitier.
posted by chris24 at 12:59 PM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]


THIS IS MY PIE SONG

MY BAKE-FOR-LIFE SONG
posted by stolyarova at 12:59 PM on August 25, 2016 [28 favorites]


And she has a hidden vagenda.

But that's the only kind...
posted by phearlez at 1:00 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


MSNBC playing clips of the speech now. Showed the part where she talked about Racialists, Racists.
posted by cashman at 1:03 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


This speech reminds me of Obama's A More Perfect Union speech in 2008 in terms of importance to the candidate and the campaign.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:03 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


Polls are closed. I'm calling it for Pie.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:03 PM on August 25, 2016 [11 favorites]


Since this is the election thread, it's time for a referendum: Should I go bake a pie or continue refreshing Twitter for the next hour?

I'd say pie, because while you're baking that, this election will have a good amount of time to bake up some fresh crazy for you. I don't know what to call the feeling when I'm getting done with work and get stoked that there will probably be fresh dumpster fire to read about on the ride home, but I'm not proud of it.

Lewandowski/Manafort Trump would probably have started on his meltdown response to this speech by the time your oven preheated. Conway/Bannon Trump might wait until you've had a slice or two.
posted by EatTheWeek at 1:03 PM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]




If anybody comes across a transcript of the speech, that would be helpful.

I want to revisit the part where she talks about how Trump talks about black people.
posted by cashman at 1:05 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Tim Kaine has a registration kickoff tomorrow. Doors open at 11:30 a.m. Not sure if anyone is streaming it.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:07 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


This is the prepared remarks, not a transcript exactly, but here ya go!
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:07 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


Explain to me why she isn't 20 points ahead please?

MATHILDA: Are lots of white people just responding to hard economic times, or the problems they see around them, or, God, please, something that's not crazy and maybe they'll get better? Or are shitloads of white people just always such horrible racist shitbags and there's just no fucking stopping them, there's only waiting for them to die?

LEON: Always like this.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:10 PM on August 25, 2016 [10 favorites]


Explain to me why she isn't 20 points ahead please?

Misogyny?
posted by rabbitrabbit at 1:11 PM on August 25, 2016 [16 favorites]


Extremists Begin to Howl Over Trump's Erratic Lurching on Immigration:
Donald Trump’s recent waffling on his hardline immigration stances has put some of his most ardent and earliest supporters -- many of them self-proclaimed white nationalists, members of the alt right community or longtime immigration foes -- on the defensive, as they try to rationalize what the perceived shifts mean for their movements.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:11 PM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


Thank you showbiz_liz!
posted by cashman at 1:11 PM on August 25, 2016


A CHICKEN IN EVERY POT PIE AND A CAR IN EVERY GARAGE
TIPPECANOE AND PIE-LOR, TOO
I LIKE PIE-KE
YES PIE PAN
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:11 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


From the prepared remarks:

But in Trump’s America, when they step up to the counter, the immigration officer would ask every single person, "What is your religion?"

And then what?

What if someone says, "I’m a Christian," but the agent doesn’t believe them.

Do they have to prove it? How would they do that?


I've thought this myself, waiting in line at ORD after a long flight. It's such a simple question but nobody seemed willing to ask it.
posted by theodolite at 1:12 PM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]


It's such a simple question but nobody seemed willing to ask it.

For the lulznazis, the answer always involves pork products.
posted by holgate at 1:14 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


Eric Cantor with the shade: "Pleased to see @realDonaldTrump embrace @JebBush's immigration plan."
posted by chris24 at 1:15 PM on August 25, 2016 [10 favorites]


This is going to be needed, since I just watched someone on MSNBC do it wrong.

Jay Smooth - The what they did conversation vs the what they are conversation. You want to have the what they did conversation.

Hillary laid out point-by-point, things Trump has done, whether with his businesses, or his associations, or his hirings, or his statements. Don't care what Trump is, care what Trump did.
posted by cashman at 1:16 PM on August 25, 2016 [31 favorites]


Reaction could be good. Does Trump have his phone?
posted by Dashy at 1:17 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]




Reaction could be good. Does Trump have his phone?

Appears so. He's swinging and missing right now with a couple of recent tweets. He might as well just tweet I know you are but what am I.
posted by cashman at 1:19 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


What if someone says, "I’m a Christian," but the agent doesn’t believe them.

Do they have to prove it? How would they do that?


The alt-right's answer to that question is literally "make them eat bacon". The fact that it also keeps out jews and vegetarians is icing on the cake.
posted by Talez at 1:21 PM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]


He's swinging and missing right now

SAD!
posted by chris24 at 1:22 PM on August 25, 2016




He might as well just tweet I know you are but what am I.
Especially since the "I'm rubber you're glue" gambit failed so miserably.
posted by Floydd at 1:23 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


If Trump is worried about the speech seeming short he shouldn't have just watched the recap.
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:24 PM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]


Wait, free bacon at customs?

Also, do they really think terrorists would draw the line at eating bacon? The 9/11 hijackers went to a strip club, didn't they?
posted by AFABulous at 1:24 PM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


Yes, Trump has his phone.
posted by maryr at 1:25 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


> "Also, do they really think terrorists would draw the line at eating bacon? The 9/11 hijackers went to a strip club, didn't they?"

Well, here's an important thing to remember about the alt-right:

They're insane.
posted by kyrademon at 1:27 PM on August 25, 2016 [63 favorites]


shameless, naked appeals to the base urges of anti-racism
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:27 PM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]


Trump's projection is insane. It reminds me of a very troubled member of my extended family who wound up succumbing to his addictions.

There would be times when he'd be drunk or whatever, and someone would call him on it, and he'd say, with a straight face and completely sincerely: "I'm not drunk. I've never even been drunk. You're drunk."

His projection was tragic. With Trump, someone who wants to run the United States of America, it's pathetic.
posted by defenestration at 1:30 PM on August 25, 2016 [10 favorites]


Good Yglesias piece:

Tensions between the alt-right and mainstream conservatives are real enough, but Clinton’s description of a hard and fast line between them that makes Trumpism entirely unprecedented is factually wrong and analytically sloppy. It’s also smart.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:31 PM on August 25, 2016 [26 favorites]


Donnie's going to have to use very ounce of his political guile, intelligence and swift wit to cope with the unfortunate fact that all his alt-right fans are going to proclaim what Hillary said as the truth. They're proud of it, and they're going to be loud about it.
posted by Devonian at 1:34 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


I got my first pantsuit ever today!

Did Hillary Clinton's wardrobe influence that choice? HELL YES.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:35 PM on August 25, 2016 [14 favorites]


Well we have Trumpdown.
@realDonaldTrump
Just watched recap of #CrookedHillary's speech. Very short and lies. She is the only one fear-mongering!

@realDonaldTrump
Hillary Clinton's short speech is pandering to the worst instincts in our society. She should be ashamed of herself!
Ah yes, the infamous "I'm rubber, you're glue" defense.
posted by Talez at 1:36 PM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


Polls are closed. I'm calling it for Pie.

Nate Silver nails it again!
posted by PlusDistance at 1:37 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


Both of the tweets from Trump so far were from an iPhone, i.e. not Trump. He tweets himself from an Android. So we have the real freakout to look forward to.
posted by chris24 at 1:37 PM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]


Both of the tweets from Trump so far were from an iPhone

Where can I find that using a browser?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:39 PM on August 25, 2016


Where can I find that using a browser?

Not sure. I use Echofon and it gives me the device if available.
posted by chris24 at 1:41 PM on August 25, 2016


Metafilter: shameless, naked appeals to the base urges of anti-racism
posted by Mayhembob at 1:44 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


Mod note: A few comments deleted; as always the exaggerated description of how racist people see things isn't helpful; also flag stuff and don't reply, thanks.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:44 PM on August 25, 2016


Both of the tweets from Trump so far were from an iPhone, i.e. not Trump. He tweets himself from an Android. So we have the real freakout to look forward to.

That's actually not a sure-fire Trump/Not Trump identifier because he's said he often just barks out tweets to his staff who post them for him verbatim. His tiny hands must get too tired sometimes :(
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:47 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


Anyone have a link to video of Hillary's speech?
posted by yasaman at 1:48 PM on August 25, 2016


so i guess he's mad the speech of lies wasn't longer, classic restaurant joke re-enacted in real life
posted by prefpara at 1:49 PM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


Really good point from Anne Caprara in response to Trip Gabriel saying...

"Reno crowd seems appalled by the stuff Clinton is citing from Breitbart."

...her reply is...

"I cannot stress this enough. Normal people who don't follow political news every day have never heard these things."

We're so jaded here, but this speech and the publicity it gets is really going to shine a light into the dark and awful spaces the GOP has gone. And it won't end well for them.
posted by chris24 at 1:50 PM on August 25, 2016 [85 favorites]


> Is anyone else vaguely worried that Putin seems super involved in this election, and has been known to assassinate his enemies?

As others said, an organized assassination is pretty far-fetched, but if we're contemplating nightmare scenarios, here's mine, in three conjectures:

1. There are a number of entities (Putin, ISIS, &c) that would stand to benefit from the political disorder & economic turmoil that a Trump victory would bring to the US.

2. Any catastrophic attack before the election, esp. one having the appearance of being perpetrated by Muslims and/or brown people, is likely to shift the election outcome toward TrumpPence (even if only by galvanizing right-wing voters to go to the polls).

3. The entities identified in #1 are surely aware of #2. Whether it would actually "work" is immaterial; all that matters is whether they think it would be worth a shot.

Late at night, when I lie awake worrying about the future, it's not November 8 that concerns me. It's fear of what October may bring.
posted by Westringia F. at 1:51 PM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]


I really loved this line from the end of her speech (1:05 here, transcription that follows mine [speech starts around 35 minute mark])
"I don't know about you, but I don't think we have a person to waste. We want to build an America where everyone has a place, where if you work hard and you do your part you can get ahead and stay ahead. That's the basic bargain of America and we cannot get to where we need to be unless we move forward together and stand up against prejudice and paranoia and prove, again, that America is great because America is good."
which doesn't appear to be in the prepared remarks, but DOES appear to be a line from A Place Called Hope, Bill Clinton's acceptance of the 1992 Democratic Nomination.
And so we must say to every American: Look beyond the stereotypes that blind us. We need each other. All of us -- we need each other. We don't have a person to waste. And yet for too long politicians have told the most of us that are doing all right that what's really wrong with America is the rest of us. Them. Them, the minorities. Them, the liberals. Them, the poor. Them, the homeless. Them, the people with disabilities. Them, the gays. We've gotten to where we've nearly themed ourselves to death. Them and them and them. But this is America. There is no them; there's only us.
So now I don't know what to think of it. I really like the line. Maybe it was hers the first time? Maybe she'll get plagiarism accusations? It was a killer end to the speech. This line jumped out at me so much I was sad to google it (in an attempt to find a transcript!) and have Bill Clinton's Wikiquotes page come up.
posted by maryr at 1:51 PM on August 25, 2016 [10 favorites]


That's actually not a sure-fire Trump/Not Trump identifier

True, but they read to me like a sanitized and unsuccessful attempt to replicate his tone.
posted by chris24 at 1:53 PM on August 25, 2016


I'm not one to argue against Twitter metadata science but "very short and lies" rings true to me
posted by theodolite at 1:55 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
Hillary Clinton is using race-baiting to try to get African-American voters- but they know she is all talk and NO ACTION!
He's really desperate to grab ground on this territory.
posted by Talez at 1:55 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]




Francis: Explain to me why she isn't 20 points ahead please?

rabbitrabbit: Misogyny?

For decades for Hillary specifically, and centuries for women in general.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:01 PM on August 25, 2016 [15 favorites]


Would this be a good place to mention my theory that Trump's elaborate hairpiece is there so we can't see that his skull is pierced by many, many nails?
posted by thatwhichfalls at 2:01 PM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]


"I cannot stress this enough. Normal people who don't follow political news every day have never heard these things."

My partner gets his news mostly from The Economist and podcasts, but doesn't otherwise use the internet much. About once a week or so, he'll ask me if I've ever heard of something that he's just now hearing of and wants to verify if it's true. Memorable recent inquiries include: unsolicited dick pics, bronies, the word 'cray-cray,' whether WikiLeaks are assholes now, and the alt-right.
posted by palindromic at 2:03 PM on August 25, 2016 [53 favorites]




Under DJT American would be the only country in the world with a religious test. Except perhaps the Islamic State.

Is this directly quoted? If so, BOOM Shakalaka!

And thank you CHT for the livening!
posted by petebest at 2:05 PM on August 25, 2016 [16 favorites]


Is this directly quoted?

Yep, she said it.
posted by chris24 at 2:06 PM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


My partner gets his news mostly from The Economist and podcasts, but doesn't otherwise use the internet much. About once a week or so, he'll ask me if I've ever heard of something that he's just now hearing of and wants to verify if it's true. Memorable recent inquiries include: unsolicited dick pics, bronies, the word 'cray-cray,' whether WikiLeaks are assholes now, and the alt-right.

“Ah you think chan culture is your ally? You merely adopted pol. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the social liberalism until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but blinding!”
posted by Talez at 2:06 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Would this be a good place to mention my theory that Trump's elaborate hairpiece is there so we can't see that his skull is pierced by many, many nails?

He has huge things to show us. The best things! All the people who've seen these things agree that they're outstanding.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:07 PM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]




So now I don't know what to think of it. I really like the line. Maybe it was hers the first time? Maybe she'll get plaguerism accusations? It was a killer end to the speech.

Oh please, oh please, oh please....uh, I mean I'll do anything you want, just don't throw me into that rhetorical brier patch over there!

Seriously, imagine it. This becomes the issue de jour and someone does an in interview with Bill. They bring this tempest in a teapot up and he;ll chuckle softly, like he does, and say something like, "Hillary and I were discussing the speech before hand. She was saying something about how Trump wants to marginalize a huge swath of America. And I told her, it's like I said back in '92. We don't have a person to waste. Say that."
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 2:10 PM on August 25, 2016 [14 favorites]


"I cannot stress this enough. Normal people who don't follow political news every day have never heard these things."

Yeah, monday when I was jogging I passed an older couple out walking. Man says, "He said it was sarcasm." Woman incredulously says, "SARCASM!?" And I knew exactly what they were talking about.
posted by peeedro at 2:10 PM on August 25, 2016 [28 favorites]


Hillary tweets @ Leslie Jones

Is there a bumper sticker in the HRC store yet that reads "I have never been pandered to so effectively" ?

I want it.
posted by zutalors! at 2:13 PM on August 25, 2016 [34 favorites]


Ugh, I checked out the Trump Jr tweet, then that pointed me towards Scott Adams again. He's fawning over "The Master Persuader" and his brilliant immigration pivot gambit.

What a fucking idiot.
posted by defenestration at 2:13 PM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


So you thought that the Khan thing was done, right? Well the Governor of Maine just can't let it go: LePage says Khizr Khan is a ‘con artist’
AUGUSTA, Maine — Gov. Paul LePage says the father of a deceased Muslim captain in the U.S. Army is a ‘‘con artist’’ for criticizing Donald Trump.

LePage, a Republican, made the comments on Wednesday during an appearance on a program hosted by Boston radio host Howie Carr.[...]

LePage says Khan ‘‘uses the death of his son’’ to go after Trump.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:14 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


Tim Jacob Wise has been popping off on Twitter with #altrightmeans.
#AltRightMeans you have time to make Pepe memes & hang out on 4chan all day, yet you're sure it's black folks who r lazy
POL BTFO
O
L

B
T
F
O
posted by Talez at 2:14 PM on August 25, 2016 [40 favorites]


Best thing is, as someone quoted Benjy Sarlin above, these racists and nutjobs are going to be talking to the press for the next week, saying horrendous things that will confirm everything Clinton just said. And the press the awful responses get will magnify the story far beyond what today's speech will get.
posted by chris24 at 2:19 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


To be honest, it's like she read some of these mefi threads, took notes, and is speaking it out to the nation.

So, has anyone ever seen Hillary and Jessamyn in the same room together? Just askin'.
posted by happyroach at 2:22 PM on August 25, 2016 [13 favorites]


Rick Klein: .@AnnCoulter tells me and @jonkarl her advice for Trump: "Dump the moron" who told him to soften language on immigration

They are such delightful people, aren't they? Imagine going out to dinner with Ann and Donald and Bannon. "Pass me the salt, moron." "You're the moron, not me." "Donald you're the fucking moron." "What? You must be bleeding out your whatever." "Shut up." "Make me."

Like really rude teenagers who think they are too cool for manners. Not like grown up professionals one of whom is running for POTUS.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:27 PM on August 25, 2016 [21 favorites]


Would this be a good place to mention my theory that Trump's elaborate hairpiece is there so we can't see that his skull is pierced by many, many nails?

It's a scalp reduction. Don't ask me how I know.
posted by Sophie1 at 2:29 PM on August 25, 2016


"I cannot stress this enough. Normal people who don't follow political news every day have never heard these things."


Because the media aren't doing their job.

They are so busy with the horse-race, the false equivalence, that they have failed to clearly state the important facts. They was my take-home from this speech: finally, someone is laying it out for what it is.

And it demonstrates that HRC is so competent that she can outperform all three four branches of government, with one hand tied behind her back.
posted by Dashy at 2:31 PM on August 25, 2016 [32 favorites]


I... I just realised Ann Coulter might not be a troll.

What is going on?
posted by Yowser at 2:31 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


You know I've been thinking that one of the problems with American discourse on cable TV is that it's too polite. When the news about Bannon joining Trump's team was disclosed first, I was sure that the news networks would start reading out some of those Breitbart headlines. But they don't want to go there. They'd rather pretend that Donald Trump is a normal presidential candidate and that this is a normal presidential campaign. This speech was much needed, because the media has not been doing their jobs. They need to get over their squeamishness and show the public what it is they would be voting for with a vote for Trump.
posted by peacheater at 2:34 PM on August 25, 2016 [45 favorites]


Has anyone produced or even started producing an annotated version of that speech? With a proof for every claim she made.
posted by Francis at 2:35 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


The Hill: Trump aide: Clinton speech shows she's worried about Trump
"Donald Trump is talking about issues; Hillary Clinton is talking about Donald Trump," Conway said in a statement released by the Trump campaign.

"We’re living in her head rent-free, and that must terrify the political insiders who want to keep things exactly the way they are," Conway added.

Conway accused the Democratic nominee of having "lied about Donald Trump" during her speech Thursday that blasted the GOP nominee on race.
"We're living in her head rent-free"? Kellyanne, you do realize that Hillary is running against Donald for POTUS, right? And he talks about her a lot? So she is just supposed to what....not think about him?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:36 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


> Oh, my goodness. She looks like the Statue of Liberty today. That color? Intentional hagiography?

I'm surprised she didn't have a torch to complete the ensemble, even if it was against fire code.. After all, the Fire Marshills are in the tank for Hillary and would totally allow it.
posted by guiseroom at 2:36 PM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]


I... I just realised Ann Coulter might not be a troll.

What is going on?


She's a troll. She's telling Trump to dump the idiot who made him soften and go back to hardline no Mexicans, no Muslims.
posted by Talez at 2:36 PM on August 25, 2016


the trump campaign reminds of the Fox News tagline from the Simpsons:

NOT RACIST, BUT #1 WITH RACISTS
posted by murphy slaw at 2:37 PM on August 25, 2016 [20 favorites]


She [Coulter] doesn't like this "look reasonable with the wink wink nudge nudge to the crazies". She wants the views to be proud, front, and center and start legitimizing them.
posted by Talez at 2:37 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


She wants the crazy-ass 27% of the country to be asking "why can't we racially profile brown people?" and "why can't be just lock up black criminals?" and the rest of the country either too polite or too weary to explain again that, no, the 14th amendment makes most of this shit you're arguing for not-legit and it's also outrageously unfair and stupid.
posted by Talez at 2:40 PM on August 25, 2016



My partner gets his news mostly from The Economist and podcasts, but doesn't otherwise use the internet much. About once a week or so, he'll ask me if I've ever heard of something that he's just now hearing of and wants to verify if it's true. Memorable recent inquiries include: unsolicited dick pics, bronies, the word 'cray-cray,' whether WikiLeaks are assholes now, and the alt-right.


Ok but this is adorable tho
posted by schadenfrau at 2:40 PM on August 25, 2016 [36 favorites]


Eh, except the Trump campaign is actually racist themselves, too. (I mean, so is Fox, but Trump and his campaign staff are much more obviously, overtly racist than Fox usually is)
posted by thefoxgod at 2:40 PM on August 25, 2016


Fox's Shepard Smith: Clinton "Just Tagged Her Republican Rival As A Racist, Fearmongering Conspiracy Theorist" And "Was Was Historically Accurate On His Policies, On All Reviewed Points"

I loved this part of the exchange:

GRIMALDI: Yeah he really trades in hyperbole --

SMITH: He trades in racism, doesn't he?

Always liked Shep. God knows how he gets through the day there.
posted by chris24 at 2:41 PM on August 25, 2016 [34 favorites]


Eh, except the Trump campaign is actually racist themselves, too. (I mean, so is Fox, but Trump and his campaign staff are much more obviously, overtly racist than Fox usually is)

At least AP is somewhat on the ball with Trump's staff being overtly racist but nobody else actually cares. Maybe they will now.
posted by Talez at 2:42 PM on August 25, 2016


I'm not sure about the timing of this speech. Trump is starting to implode on his core policy plank, backing off from ultra-restrictive immigration. If the HRC speech and the subsequent media attention isn't there to rally the alt-right to defend, they would be imploding right now as well, calling Trump out as a backstabber and a traitor.

I mean, certainly Trump has enabled bigoted forces throughout his campaign, but isn't he starting to finally shift away from them, which would cause them to turn against him? Let him undo himself.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:44 PM on August 25, 2016


Coalition of 40 Latino activist groups rips Trump for ‘relentless attacks against our community’

What are the chances he will offer to meet with this coalition and discuss immigration policy with them?

In the latest Keepin' It 1600 they pointed out something I hadn't noticed. When Trump talks about white people in his speeches he uses inclusive language-- 'we' and 'our'-- but when he talks about minorities he uses exclusive language 'you' and 'your.'
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:45 PM on August 25, 2016 [49 favorites]


Let him undo himself.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
posted by mochapickle at 2:46 PM on August 25, 2016 [13 favorites]


Not calling them out is what's allowed the alt-right to rise this far, what on earth makes anyone think that continuing to not call them out is the right tactic?
posted by palomar at 2:50 PM on August 25, 2016 [28 favorites]


All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

Sometimes all that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil fucks up constantly for an extended period, just over and over.
posted by The Gaffer at 2:51 PM on August 25, 2016 [14 favorites]


Kyle Griffin: Trump doubles down to @andersoncooper, calls Clinton a "bigot" and "maybe she's lazy":

You really have to read the transcript of the interview because it is something. Trump keeps repeating that Hillary is a a bigot because her policies hurt black people and when Cooper calls him on it and asks if she hates blacks and Hispanics, Trump replies maybe she is just lazy.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:53 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

Sometimes you need to do nothing to ensure someone naturally self-destructs, as opposed to allowing a distraction to grant them a longer lease on life.

I just mean that she could have always given the speech after Trump's imminent immigration pivot fiasco.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:54 PM on August 25, 2016


It helps to point out the fuck-ups to observers, though.

Man. It's like watching people berate Leslie Jones for responding to Twitter harrassment. Just shut up and take it, surely they'll see reason... oh, no, they've hacked you and displayed your personal info and nude photos for the world to see on your own website. Welp, definitely don't call them out, they'll just get worse... except they'll do it regardless of what she does.

And the people that went after Leslie Jones? They're Breitbart henchmen. You know that, right? So, like... these are the people we're being told to ignore. Just let them display their ugliness and the world will soon see and turn away from it? But that doesn't happen. It has to be pointed out to people. Stop telling people to be silent in the face of this shit. We have to call it out. When we are silent, we are fucking complacent in this shit.
posted by palomar at 2:55 PM on August 25, 2016 [77 favorites]


Let him undo himself.

I think this just increases the pressure on him. And while I think it is the right political move, even if it wasn't, it is the right thing to do. Shit like this cannot stand.
posted by chris24 at 2:58 PM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]


I think the timing is somewhat designed to remind Republicans who don't like Trump why before they talk themselves into the idea he's moderating on bigotry.
posted by dismas at 2:59 PM on August 25, 2016 [23 favorites]


Rick Klein: .@AnnCoulter tells me and @jonkarl her advice for Trump: "Dump the moron" who told him to soften language on immigration

Sounds like one addict talking to another addict: "Fuck your family! They don't know you! Let's go PARTY!""
posted by PlusDistance at 3:00 PM on August 25, 2016 [13 favorites]


"We're living in her head rent-free"?

Basically a troll condition of victory. But if your goal is to win an election rather than annoy people it isn't really much of a victory that people are thinking about you at all.
posted by Artw at 3:00 PM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


So let me see if I've got this straight.

You've got Trump claiming that Clinton is a racist.

You've got his staff trying to tell people that Trump is not a racist.

Meanwhile some racists are mad that Trump is trying not to appear too racist.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:01 PM on August 25, 2016 [19 favorites]


You can't spell "Triumph of Evil" without "Trump."
posted by guiseroom at 3:02 PM on August 25, 2016 [27 favorites]


If the HRC speech and the subsequent media attention isn't there to rally the alt-right to defend, they would be imploding right now as well, calling Trump out as a backstabber and a traitor.

But they didn't, and if prior actions are evidence, they wouldn't. Even Ann Coulter is still firmly in his camp, despite her snarky tweets. She just blames it on some campaign staffer.

I mean, certainly Trump has enabled bigoted forces throughout his campaign, but isn't he starting to finally shift away from them, which would cause them to turn against him? Let him undo himself.

They won't turn against him. Just check out any person-on-the-street interview at one of his rallies. They think he's duping the media when he "pivots," but that he'll really be gung-ho if he gets elected.

Sometimes you need to do nothing to ensure someone naturally self-destructs, as opposed to allowing a distraction to grant them a longer lease on life.

Almost every time Trump has done something stupid, it's because of a reaction to someone doing something to get his goat. He's the perfect target for trolling.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:03 PM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


"Donald Trump is talking about issues; Hillary Clinton is talking about Donald Trump," Conway said in a statement released by the Trump campaign.

"We’re living in her head rent-free


Who was it who said, "If the election is about Hilary, Trump wins. If the election is about Trump, Hilary wins. But both candidates want it to be about Trump."?
posted by PlusDistance at 3:03 PM on August 25, 2016 [22 favorites]


Donald Trump, in an interview with CNN, repeatedly defends calling Hillary Clinton a bigot.

"She is a bigot," he said. "She is selling them down the tubes because she's not doing anything for those communities."

Airs at 8pm.
posted by chris24 at 3:04 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


Wait. Trump already talked to Anderson Cooper?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:05 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


It's nothing like the Leslie Jones attack. Trump is about to betray his alt-right base by taking a marginally softer line on immigration, at least rhetorically. The politically tactical move would be to allow him to self-sabotage that way. Instead, holding this speech now, as opposed to next week, would grant both the alt-right mainstream exposure, and cause them to circle around the wagons in a defensive act, temporarily uniting them. I'm not talking about moral rightness or wrongness. I'm talking about politicking to maximize your winnings. You can do both, you know.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:05 PM on August 25, 2016


Donnie's going to have to use very ounce of his political guile, intelligence and swift wit

so he's fucked, is what you're saying
posted by murphy slaw at 3:05 PM on August 25, 2016 [20 favorites]


I guess the tl;dr is that sunlight is the best disinfectant. Better to drag his bigotry and that of his worst supporters out into the light. Otherwise it gets to sit and fester, he gets plausible deniability for the next go-around, and he can look more "reasonable" to a media that is desperate to come up with a new "pivot" storyline, which in turn would likely give them the closer horse-race that gets eyeballs.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:06 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'm not talking about moral rightness or wrongness. I'm talking about politicking to maximize your winnings. You can do both, you know.

The evidence of things happening the way you describe them doesn't really exist, though.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:07 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


Maggie Haberman: Per an ad-buying source, Trump campaign has yet to place more ad reservations beyond next Monday.

That's intriguing. I wonder if that is because he has very little money and his campaign is not sure which states to spend it in. Or maybe he just doesn't give a fuck. Who knows.

Donald Trump, in an interview with CNN, repeatedly defends calling Hillary Clinton a bigot.


That's the Anderson Cooper interview I was talking about 10 minutes ago. It ends by Donald saying "Maybe she is just lazy."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:08 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


The good news for him is everyone is going to try and make every excuse possible to try and ignore his racism or at least make it out to be something with "two sides", because that's how our dumb media works. Really so long as he doesn't super double quadruple double down on it and maybe punch a few people two he'll mostly come out clean.
posted by Artw at 3:09 PM on August 25, 2016


There's a time to play eleven-dimensional chess and a time to just smash the hell out of a high hanging curveball. There's a time to mix metaphors, too.
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:10 PM on August 25, 2016 [42 favorites]


Trump is about to betray his alt-right base by taking a marginally softer line on immigration, at least rhetorically.

Maybe. He's polling it -- literally polling his crowds on it, but also probably following Conway's guidance to throw out as many different variants on the theme and see what has the most purchase with various groups. It's a trial balloon pumped full of hydrogen.

This can be attempted with immigration in particular because immigration is rarely discussed in anything but the broadest terms during election campaigns, since it's the sub-branch of government to which citizens have the least direct exposure.
posted by holgate at 3:11 PM on August 25, 2016


Oh, I see. He's also going to be on Cooper's show tonight. Should be interesting.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:12 PM on August 25, 2016


Really so long as he doesn't super double quadruple double down on it and maybe punch a few people two he'll mostly come out clean.

There are a lot of days between now and November....
posted by VTX at 3:12 PM on August 25, 2016


Good lord. Hold off on even addressing the alt-right at all for an entire additional week, in order to score some sort of nebulous political victory? I honestly can't even figure out how to describe what a terrible idea that is in strong enough language that won't also get deleted, because holy fuck, that's the worst idea I've ever heard. Yeah, let's definitely let those fuckers get their message out for several more days without challenging it. Hooooo boy, that's not setting our entire society up for some really nasty, horrible things to happen to people who really don't fucking deserve to be used as political tools like that.
posted by palomar at 3:14 PM on August 25, 2016 [28 favorites]


In the same interview Trump clarifies that there is no path to citizenship without first leaving the country. So he is back to deportation. He changes his policy every hour on the hour. I don't think at this point that he knows exactly what his policy is.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:14 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


That's the Anderson Cooper interview I was talking about 10 minutes ago. It ends by Donald saying "Maybe she is just lazy."

Yep, sorry, missed your post.
posted by chris24 at 3:16 PM on August 25, 2016


Maggie Haberman: Per an ad-buying source, Trump campaign has yet to place more ad reservations beyond next Monday.

At some point those slots get filled up, and at some point local affiliates will start to become very publicly anxious about ad sales.
posted by holgate at 3:16 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


In the same interview Trump clarifies that there is no path to citizenship without first leaving the country. So he is back to deportation

If you want citizenship. That's how he's claiming not to be pivoting.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:16 PM on August 25, 2016


That's just it- Trump rose to prominence on nativism, trade protectionism and restricting immigration. But the former is international agreements and tariffs and boring, abstract stuff- his supporters are fired up by the very visceral reaction of forcing demographics to their liking. If he turns his back on the latter- that's the surely-this of all surely-thises. Without his nativism, he's just another blustering fat cat Republican, same as all the other guys he beat. Except Carson, who was a nap cat Republican. The emperor would be stripped of his clothes and his nativist base would revolt and it would be insta-implode for his campaign.

Of course, I understand that it's very easy to armchair general politics. There are innumerable questionable decisions of timing and place. But that's because any speech, any public event, requires huge efforts of logistics and planning, which are hard to reverse or postpone. This speech was probably decided upon weeks ago, if not months. Maybe it was made in the case that Trump floats his trial balloon on immigration and decides to continue on, hard. In which case there would be no reason for his alt-right base to reject him, so the best move would be to call them out now. And I understand that we're (finally) running low on time for this campaign cycle.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:16 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


I don't think at this point that he knows exactly what his policy is.

listen trump may not be very solid on policy but he's extremely clear about how he feels
posted by murphy slaw at 3:16 PM on August 25, 2016 [13 favorites]


Instead, holding this speech now, as opposed to next week, would grant both the alt-right mainstream exposure, and cause them to circle around the wagons in a defensive act, temporarily uniting them.

I think the Clinton campaign is perfectly fine with the Trump campaign and the alt-right racists and cranks wrapping themselves in the same blanket.
posted by chris24 at 3:19 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


You guys don't get it; You think he's alienating more people all the time when in fact he's distilling his electorate down to only the most pure. By the time he's done they will be so few, but so loyal that...I'm not sure, but it's going to be amazing, trust me.
posted by bongo_x at 3:23 PM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]


This is What CNN's Brianna Keilar Was Actually Thinking During the 'Says Who' Interview
Esquire: This week you had another buzzy interview with Rep. Sean Duffy when he brought up Hillary Clinton's "coughing attacks." You said: "I have been there for those. Who doesn't occasionally cough? It sounds like you are trafficking in conspiracy theories as well." Why is it so important to push back on conspiracy theories like these?

Keilar: Pressing anyone you interview is important when they're talking about things that aren't true. If someone is on your air, and they're saying something that is factually incorrect, then it's on you to point that out.
posted by Lexica at 3:24 PM on August 25, 2016 [42 favorites]


You people keep talking about Evan McMullin not having a chance, but he got his name added to the Minnesota Ballot before Trump did! Backed by the most successful minor party currently in the state! (In addition to Jesse Ventura, they've had that one Senator, who was appointed by Jesse Ventura.)
posted by ckape at 3:25 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


If the white nationalists start deserting him, the Trump campaign's next hire will be Ann Coulter. I give it two weeks.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 3:26 PM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]


Hooooo boy, that's not setting our entire society up for some really nasty, horrible things to happen to people who really don't fucking deserve to be used as political tools like that.

Well, if you put it in those terms, it's a downright atrocity and an outrage that both Clinton and Sanders, and everyone else speaking at the DNC failed to call out the alt-right. Or even during the primaries, before a candidate was decided. If a week is so crucial, then it is a shame that no one in a high up position has decided to weigh in until now. Surely they all deserve the harshest of our language for waiting until August 25.

I think the Clinton campaign is perfectly fine with the Trump campaign and the alt-right racists and cranks wrapping themselves in the same blanket.

Yes, but what would be even more spectacular if the alt-right realized that he's just using them, and turn on him. Think of the internecine warfare! Think of the schisms it will bring between the Trump loyalists and the ideologues! Sometimes evil can destroy itself and it truly is amazing to witness.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:27 PM on August 25, 2016


Jamming with Tim Kaine
posted by guiseroom at 3:28 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


1. Trump is a racist.
2. Clinton just called him on it, big time.

NBC news summarizes this with: Trump Accuses Clinton of 'Bullying' With Charges of Racism

head:desk
posted by Dashy at 3:28 PM on August 25, 2016 [40 favorites]


To disagree with a lot of people, now is the perfect time to press. Trump is trying to pivot to respectability while keeping the white nationalists (where are they going to go?) So he's cleaning up his immigration policy and annoying people who haven't quite twigged what he is doing. She's launching her attack while the enemy camp is disorganised, and trying to force him to choose one side (in which case he scares the moderates) or the other (in which case he demoralises the white nationalists that much harder).
posted by Francis at 3:29 PM on August 25, 2016 [33 favorites]


Basic QM dictates: as Trump's position on immigration diverges to a simultaneous superposition of opposite ideas, measurement of his momentum becomes commensurately more precise.
posted by theodolite at 3:29 PM on August 25, 2016 [15 favorites]


Yes, but what would be even more spectacular if the alt-right realized that he's just using them, and turn on him.

this seems like some pretty wishful thinking
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:30 PM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]


Evil can destroy itself, but it's a very privileged position to say, "hey, let's sit back and do nothing and hope the evil destroy only themselves and not us as well."

I'm not willing to take that risk. I'm not insulated from having my life ruined by them should they take power.
posted by palomar at 3:31 PM on August 25, 2016 [32 favorites]


So is there an extended interview on CNN tonight at 8 with Trump, so he can say more stupid things that are clearly nonsense and hopefully have his Sarah Palin moment? Or was that clip it?
posted by cashman at 3:31 PM on August 25, 2016


Keilar: Pressing anyone you interview is important when they're talking about things that aren't true. If someone is on your air, and they're saying something that is factually incorrect, then it's on you to point that out.

An incredibly bold journalistic stance.
posted by Artw at 3:35 PM on August 25, 2016 [18 favorites]


"Donald Trump is talking about issues; Hillary Clinton is talking about Donald Trump," Conway said in a statement released by the Trump campaign.

"We’re living in her head rent-free"

That's a good thing since rent at Trump Tower went up 400% last month for no reason at all.
posted by srboisvert at 3:36 PM on August 25, 2016 [32 favorites]


She's launching her attack while the enemy camp is disorganised, and trying to force him to choose one side (in which case he scares the moderates) or the other (in which case he demoralises the white nationalists that much harder).

When you put it that way, that is a clever stratagem. Okay, that is a better justification for the timing.

Evil can destroy itself, but it's a very privileged position to say, "hey, let's sit back and do nothing and hope the evil destroy only themselves and not us as well."

Well, my point was that sometimes by trying to do something, you prevent evil from being destroyed as efficiently as it could. It's a matter of tactics. Not about morality. There are situations where you win more by inaction, by allowing your opponent's momentum to overcome him. Just ask Kayla Harrison.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:38 PM on August 25, 2016


in which case he demoralises the white nationalists that much harder
Well, I can tell you that Nate from VA has big plans for Trump if he doesn't build that wall.
“Oh, he’s in so much trouble,” he said. “You don’t even understand the backlash of us, the ones who are so frustrated and angry and tired of all the political stuff. We’re going to come after him personally. You know what I mean? We’re going to get him.”
See, this is what fucking happens when Trump stirs the pot with violent rhetoric. Those same people willing do violence in Trump's name will have no compunctions about turning that anger against him if he fails or disappoints them. Trump is playing this all off like it's a big joke, some gigantic game. And yeah, it's easy enough for me to fall into the trap of LOLTrump because he is so literally ridiculous. But even if Hillary wins, I'm worried about the normalization of the alt-right as a result of his campaign, and that's the part of Hillary's speech that actually made me tear up. When she pointed out that Trump retweets fringe garbage seen by a few thousand and expanded their audience to millions, I felt sick all over again.
posted by xyzzy at 3:38 PM on August 25, 2016 [40 favorites]


NBC news summarizes this with: Trump Accuses Clinton of 'Bullying' With Charges of Racism

TBF, that's a fair summation of his prebutal speech.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:40 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Eesh...point taken, but warn us when your link goes to Glenn Beck, yeah?
posted by adamgreenfield at 3:41 PM on August 25, 2016


Trump is playing this all off like it's a big joke, some gigantic game.

He doesn't live in a world with consequences and will be very surprised to discover that they exist.
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:43 PM on August 25, 2016 [21 favorites]


TBF, that's a fair summation of his prebutal speech

oh the irony, it kills.
posted by Dashy at 3:47 PM on August 25, 2016


(Sorry, it's too late to edit my post with a Glenn Beck radioactivity warning. I sometimes forget that not everyone checks their hover text before they click.)
posted by xyzzy at 3:50 PM on August 25, 2016


I think generally that one of the Clinton campaign's most effective moves (including and since the DNC) has been reclaiming sincere patriotism. They've done it beautifully.

One of my favorite Obama quotes has always been "there's nothing wrong with America that cannot be fixed by what is right with America", and I've been thrilled to see that Clinton has been hitting that note hard.
posted by Itaxpica at 3:52 PM on August 25, 2016 [39 favorites]


Oh good lord, listening to the Glenn Beck call now. (I just finished watching HRC's speech.) The juxtaposition is chilling.
posted by mochapickle at 3:52 PM on August 25, 2016


...aaaand apparently that quote is by Bill Clinton, not Obama. Even better!
posted by Itaxpica at 3:53 PM on August 25, 2016 [10 favorites]


"Donald Trump is talking about issues; Hillary Clinton is talking about Donald Trump," Conway said in a statement released by the Trump campaign.

"We’re living in her head rent-free"


Camp Trump seems to be running a sort of cut and paste campaign where they just drop standard text in response to anything Clinton or any opponent says or does. Its part "I know you are but what am I" and part "here is what somebody said in the past in response to something similar to this and I think it is probably close enough to say it again now."

This particular quote reminds me of a Kids in the Hall sketch titled The Eradicator. The titular character is a masked squash player who way overestimates both his own ability and his ability to get into his opponents heads. Things end for the character much the way I think they'll end for Camp Trump. (spoiler: sullen dejection upon realizing that not only did he lose, but the other guy didn't even care all that much about his head games).
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:59 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


I made the pie. Now the agonizing wait while it cools for at least a couple hours! Time for Twitter.
posted by stolyarova at 4:02 PM on August 25, 2016 [19 favorites]




NBC news summarizes this with: Trump Accuses Clinton of 'Bullying' With Charges of Racism

Charges of racism being 'bullying' is the entire base of Trump's campaign. The subtext just became text.
posted by maryr at 4:05 PM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]


Relevant: Nate Silver Blinded By Gods For Seeking Forbidden Knowledge Of Future

[true, and main explanation for the punditry]
[false]
posted by Artw at 4:07 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


Charges of racism being 'bullying' is the entire base of Trump's campaign.

See also: Condemning blatant racial slurs becoming "PC nonsense".
posted by downtohisturtles at 4:12 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


Maybe Trump's not buying ad time so there'll be something left in the campaign account to pay himself back for the loans he made to the campaign after he loses. Maybe he's overextended, which could also explain the rent increase for his campaign office in his own building.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 4:13 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm astonished at how GamerGate and sad puppies and all the other dumb pop-culture faux scandals that shitty internet trolls have kicked off lately have someone become the template for one half of mainstream American politics.
posted by Artw at 4:15 PM on August 25, 2016 [53 favorites]


"We’re living in her head rent-free"

This is basically media relations via hot take. I know this new Breitbart crew is supposed to help broaden the appeal, or claims to be able to, or whatever, but this kind of painfully dumb commentary is so transparently fraudulent that while the presdisposed are eating it up, it offers nothing to anyone else beyond the stink of deceit.

It makes me curious again, because I mentioned this in a previous thread, did some digging, and never found anything, but has RNC leadership just started totally phoning it in post-Manafort? I doubt Trump could get them to turn on him in public so I'm not expecting any repudiation, but if this leadership transition was popular, you'd expect a dog and pony show press conference where everyone smiles and shakes hand and awkwardly clasps shoulders while quipping about how competent and vital everyone is to the upcoming victory, etc. Did this actually not happen? I saw some obligatory remarks type things from minor players but that was about it.
posted by feloniousmonk at 4:16 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]




I'm astonished at how GamerGate and sad puppies and all the other dumb pop-culture faux scandals that shitty internet trolls have kicked off lately have someone become the template for one half of mainstream American politics.

Yeah, but it ups the odds of Chuck Tingle/Chuck Tingle's reverse twin becoming president and veep in 2024.
posted by rorgy at 4:17 PM on August 25, 2016 [10 favorites]


The alt-right is more than warmed-over white supremacy...

Absolutely. It arguably started with and is fueled by misogyny more than race, combining the threads of PUA, Red Pill, GamerGate, rape defenders etc. with racial worries into one unified FOLP (fear of lost privilege) freakout.
posted by msalt at 4:17 PM on August 25, 2016 [33 favorites]


omg ann coulter's soul is an oozing canker of bilious hatred
posted by stolyarova at 4:18 PM on August 25, 2016 [18 favorites]


Chuck Tingle/Chuck Tingle's reverse twin

chuck tingle/tuck chingle
posted by Itaxpica at 4:22 PM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


I'm astonished at how GamerGate and sad puppies and all the other dumb pop-culture faux scandals that shitty internet trolls have kicked off lately have someone become the template for one half of mainstream American politics.

The smoke before the fire, the ember before the flame...
posted by Apocryphon at 4:22 PM on August 25, 2016


Trump's campaign doesn't know the difference between truthfulness and truthiness. Daniel Dale is, yet again, aghast.
posted by maudlin at 4:24 PM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


Hey guys? Zoe Quinn/Chuck Tingle 2016.
posted by stolyarova at 4:27 PM on August 25, 2016 [13 favorites]


It makes me curious again, because I mentioned this in a previous thread, did some digging, and never found anything, but has RNC leadership just started totally phoning it in post-Manafort?

It's a good question. I keep waiting to hear something from Ryan but ...*crickets* At the beginning of the week there was talk of "cutting him loose" and putting all their efforts into down tickets but nothing official or even unofficial has been announced.

This was posted last night: BREAKING: More Staffers Resign from RNC, Opposition to Trump a Major Factor

This satirical piece (Borowitz Report) seems about right to me: Republicans to Pull Money from Trump Ads and Spend it on Alcohol
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:30 PM on August 25, 2016 [19 favorites]


chuck tingle/tuck chingle

The downside to this is, Ted Cobbler will run against him, and we'll all have to boo him in the grocery store when he cuts in front of us in line.
posted by rorgy at 4:30 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


good god

a candidate worse than trump
posted by Itaxpica at 4:34 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


So Trump Jr just tweeted out some crocodile tears about Clinton endorsing Robert Byrd. Apparently getting the vapors about Robert Byrd is totally A Thing now by concern trolls? Never mind that she endorsed him several decades after he'd renounced his membership in the KKK and reversed his voting positions. Or that by that time Byrd was getting a 100% rating from the NAACP, who released a statement upon his death honoring his civil rights work. Meanwhile, almost exactly one month ago, Junior was at a Mississippi county fair having a sad about people getting upset about the Confederate flag. And not just any county fair, either, the Neshoba County State Fair. Yes, the exact same one where, just miles from where civil rights workers were murdered by white supremacists, Ronald Reagan made his appallingly racist dog-whistly "state's rights" speech back in 1980. This event itself came several months after Junior, allegedly at the request of the Trump campaign itself, had himself a friendly chat with a neo-Confederate white nationalist on his radio show.

Seems to me like both the racism and the projecting is genetic. Sad!
posted by zombieflanders at 4:39 PM on August 25, 2016 [63 favorites]


"omg ann coulter's soul is an oozing canker of bilious hatred appalling dump heap, overflowing with the most disgraceful assortment of rubbish imaginable, mangled up in tangled up knots"

ftfy
posted by J.K. Seazer at 4:39 PM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]


Hey now, let's not be making insulting comparisons here. The Grinch actually did have a heart, albeit a defective one ...
posted by tocts at 4:43 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


omg ann coulter's soul is nonexistent
posted by palomar at 4:44 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


Trump did an interview this afternoon were he pulled his "Golly Gee I don't know anything about that" act that has served him so well. This time he was asked about his adviser, Al Baldasaro, who has said repeatedly that Clinton should be shot for treason.
Q: One of your good friends and one of your biggest supporters here in New Hampshire, state rep Al Baldasaro, he's here today. He said some controversial things over the last month or two about Hillary Clinton, suggesting she should be put in front of a firing squad for treason. What do you think about his comments? Do you condone them?

TRUMP: Well, I didn't know that but I will tell you he's a very fine person. He is a person that loves the military and he loves the veterans. He is a man that, as far as veterans and veterans affairs goes, I don't think anybody knows more than Al. He loves the veterans and what I really know about him is that nobody wants to take care of the veterans of this country, who have been treated horribly, more than Al. So that's what I do know.

Q: But you don't condone any comments?

TRUMP: I don't know what he said. You'd have to show me what he said.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:45 PM on August 25, 2016 [11 favorites]


STINK
STANK
TRUMP
posted by frecklefaerie at 4:45 PM on August 25, 2016 [18 favorites]


"omg ann coulter soul is an oozing canker of bilious hatred appalling dump heap, overflowing with the most disgraceful assortment of rubbish imaginable, mangled up in tangled up knots" is an asshole.

ft-even-more-fy

;-)
posted by lampshade at 4:46 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


I think we can reduce it to:

OH ANN COULTER NO
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:48 PM on August 25, 2016 [26 favorites]


Trump’s Florida Clubs Absent From Job Fairs to Hire U.S. Workers:
More than 100 employers around Palm Beach County have signed on to participate in job fairs to hire local workers for resorts. Trump’s Mar-a-Lago and Golf Club have not attended. Instead, the clubs have sought to import foreign workers on special visas
posted by kirkaracha at 5:00 PM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]


Reminder: Trump on CNN now
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:00 PM on August 25, 2016


Apparently getting the vapors about Robert Byrd is totally A Thing now by concern trolls?

Oh yeah, thats been one of the favorites of the "Democrats are the real racists" crowd for a while now. Right up there with how Republicans freed the slaves and so on in the "we'll just ignore all the details of history" playbook.
posted by thefoxgod at 5:02 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


CNN: Trump: No legal status for undocumented immigrants
Trump had said earlier this week that he would be open to a "softening" on immigration, and made a series of comments that indicated a path to legalization was likely as long as they paid taxes accumulated from their time living here illegally. Yet Trump now seems to be reverting to his original plan -- one derided as a "touchback" policy in which those without proper papers must return home before re-entering the country.

Yet it was now unclear to what length Trump would go to execute those deportations.
"It's a process. You can't take 11 at one time and just say 'boom, you're gone,'" he told Cooper, floating the idea that as many as 30 million people could be living here illegally, a projection well beyond most analysts' figures. "I don't think it's a softening. I've had people say it's a hardening, actually."

On Wednesday, Trump suggested he would allow exceptions to let some undocumented immigrants to stay in the US, vowing he wouldn't grant them citizenship but telling Fox News, "there's no amnesty, but we work with them."
Guys, it's not a softening, it's a hardening. There's no amnesty but they can stay and we can "work with them" whatever the hell that means. Possibly it means that they can pick our lettuce and if they keep quiet and don't get into trouble we won't deport them.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:03 PM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]




TRUMP: I don't know what he said. You'd have to show me what he said.

Correct response: would you prefer transcript, audio, or full video?

How are they not prepared for this mealy mouthed non response by now?
posted by solotoro at 5:05 PM on August 25, 2016 [34 favorites]



Q: But you don't condone any comments?

TRUMP: I don't know what he said. You'd have to show me what he said.


Which is why Hillary could stand up today and say "Trump did not condemn David Duke", so it's not as if there's no comeback. The interviewer gave him the chance, he refused to do it; he'd have refused to do it even if he was presented with a holographic 3D VR example of what he's being asked to comment on - "I don't know the context of this, I wasn't there, these things are easy to misrepresent". Blah.

You can't break someone like Trump out of his shell during an interview; you can just illustrate what he says and does.
posted by Devonian at 5:13 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


Trump just discovered the sentence, "We're going to see what happens." It's perfect for every situation!
posted by roll truck roll at 5:14 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


Oh damn, I thought this was a separate interview. This is the one they did, it was just done yesterday.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:14 PM on August 25, 2016


And now it's the talking heads.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:20 PM on August 25, 2016


Paul Begala: (Trump) doesn't know the first thing about his most important issue.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:23 PM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


Tara Setmayer: He's over promising, muddying the issue.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:25 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


And now it's the talking heads.

"Road to Nowhere"?
And the name of this band is Talking Heads. No "the."
posted by kirkaracha at 5:28 PM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]


The big suit actually works this cycle.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:30 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


The "calling out racism is racist" thing is so old meme. Like, literally in fandom we used the meme "I THINK YOU WILL FIND IT IS YOU WHO ARE RACISM" to talk about the people doing this. You can see this meme colliding with OH JOHN RINGO NO for your pleasure on this LJ post.

Referring to liberals/Democrats as the real racists is just in general the oldest meme to ever oldmeme. I remember it from my childhood where it wasn't necessarily uttered in so many words in my household but it was heavily implied.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:30 PM on August 25, 2016 [13 favorites]


More Trump interview. Starts off with the "maybe she's lazy" bit released earlier.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:33 PM on August 25, 2016


WSJ: Donald Trump’s Mixed Signals on Immigration Cause a Flap Some backers say they would welcome a change; others say easing his plan to deport all illegal immigrants would cost him the election

So many good quotes in the article that I found it difficult to choose just one or two. Sarah Palin rambles on. At least two of his supporters claim that his changed stance will lose him the election. Rush Limbaugh says it doesn't matter because Clinton is worse.
Mr. Trump’s new aides have had some trouble navigating their candidate’s positions.

When Kellyanne Conway, Mr. Trump’s new campaign manager, was asked Wednesday on MSNBC if his proposal to bar immigrants from countries with terrorist enclaves would supplant the Muslim ban, she said: “I don’t think it supplants it at all.…I think it clarifies it.”

One day earlier, asked about Mr. Trump’s previous call for mass deportations, she said on CNN: “He has not said that for a while.”
So there you have it. If Trump doesn't say something for awhile then that means his stance has changed on that particular issue.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:38 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


Back to talking heads. Quickly devolves to crosstalk about Central Park 5.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:39 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


If Trump doesn't say something for awhile then that means his stance has changed on that particular issue.

But Hillary Clinton saying nice things about Robert Byrd six years ago is fair game because he was in the Klan decades before he knew her. Got it.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:43 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


Quickly devolves to crosstalk about Central Park 5.
> On May 1, 1989, Donald Trump published an ad in the New York Daily News calling for the state to kill five schoolchildren. None of the “Central Park Five” were older than 16. All of them were black or Latino. Under police coercion, they’d confessed to the brutal rape and assault of Trisha Meili, an investment banker who had been jogging in Central Park. Though they were convicted, Antron McCray, Kevin Richardson, Yusef Salaam, Raymond Santana, and Korey Wise were not guilty of the crime. Twelve years later, a serial rapist named Matias Reyes fessed up to being the sole attacker, and his DNA was a match to what was found at the scene.

But the possibility of the Central Park Five’s innocence, it seems, did not occur to Trump when he paid to condemn them in print. He concluded with a clarion call to anger and fear: “BRING BACK THE DEATH PENALTY. BRING BACK OUR POLICE!"
Again, fuck Donald Trump.
posted by cashman at 5:46 PM on August 25, 2016 [60 favorites]


But Hillary Clinton saying nice things about Robert Byrd six years ago is fair game because he was in the Klan decades before he knew her.

Not to mention that he had since changed his behaviour.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:46 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


Breaking news, try not to panic. Trump triumphs over Clinton in 'Bobblection'
Forget about the polls. Donald Trump won an election Thursday night. If history repeats itself, the businessman and reality TV star will become the next president of the United States.

The Fort Myers Miracle, Class A minor league affiliate of the Minnesota Twins, held their fourth “Bobblection” promotion at Hammond Stadium. Presidents George W. Bush won the first in 2004 and President Barack Obama won each of the previous two Miracle promotions in 2008 and 2012 before moving on to win the general elections in November.

There were 259 Clinton bobbleheads remaining when the 500th Trump doll was claimed. Miracle chief operating officer Steve Gliner oversaw the ballot counting. Trump received 59.9 percent of the vote to Clinton's 28.9 percent and the "other" choice's 11.2 percent.

"It was not rigged," Gliner said. "Trust me. This is very serious. We wanted to get this right."
What are the odds @RealDonaldTrump is boasting about his decisive victory before tomorrow?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:48 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


Setmayer (black conservative) is witheringly comparing Trump to Kemp.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:48 PM on August 25, 2016


Why would Trump spend that much money on an ad like that? What did he gain by doing that?
posted by valkane at 5:51 PM on August 25, 2016


Why would Trump spend that much money on an ad like that?

Maybe they gave him a discount and he can't turn down a good deal?
posted by aubilenon at 5:56 PM on August 25, 2016


Nothing Trump has done so far leads me to believe he paid a dime of his own money for that ad. He probably paid for it out of the marketing budget of one of his LLCs or something like that.
posted by feloniousmonk at 5:56 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump denying he knows what the alt-right is. Defends his setlements by avoiding knowledge of settlements. Holy shit there's another hour?!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:58 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


In the second hour Trimp introduces Cousin Oliver.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 5:59 PM on August 25, 2016 [9 favorites]


In the second hour Trimp introduces Cousin Oliver.

At some point, the shark jumped Trump.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:00 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


I absolutely believe that Trump doesn't know what the alt-right is. I'd bet there's a lot of right-wing douchbags who make Breitbart a regular stop and don't think about the name of the political movement it's the voice of, other than "oh it's a conservative website" or similar.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:02 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also, for the record, since that article made it seem like it was one paper:
"Developer Donald Trump, prompted in part by the attack on the woman, took out full-page advertisements in four New York newspapers Monday calling for the restoration of the death penalty in the state."
-May 1st 1989 Associated Press article.
posted by cashman at 6:02 PM on August 25, 2016 [14 favorites]


I absolutely cannot wait until this guy loses and gets away from any chance at the presidency. Thanks to whoever posted that early voting chart, because right about now I feel like going to camp out right outside the polls.
posted by cashman at 6:05 PM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]


Am I wrong or is baseball not struggling with the fact that its demographic is aging, male and white? I'm a little superstitious but if that's still the case, I won't worry about bobble head claims
posted by Countess Elena at 6:06 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


I absolutely believe that Trump doesn't know what the alt-right is.

But he hired the their main dude. Totes accidental. My bad.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:12 PM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]


I'm astonished at how GamerGate and sad puppies and all the other dumb pop-culture faux scandals that shitty internet trolls have kicked off lately have someone become the template for one half of mainstream American politics.

And just yesterday the University of Chicago announced it doesn't support trigger warnings or safe spaces while still maintaining its own private un-democratically supervised but fully authorized private but public police force to keep the locals at bay.

The refusal of protection for them while protecting the self and policing of them without policing of self runs pretty damn deep for pretty damn long in the establishment.
posted by srboisvert at 6:13 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


Am I wrong or is baseball not struggling with the fact that its demographic is aging, male and white? I'm a little superstitious but if that's still the case, I won't worry about bobble head claims

A demographic profile of sports fans shows that Major League Baseball fans are 70% male, 83% white, and 50% ages 55 and over.

Plus, as a devoted Hillary supporter, a Trump bobblehead is just better than a Hillary bobblehead. It's like he was created to have a bobblehead made of him.
posted by pocketfullofrye at 6:14 PM on August 25, 2016 [30 favorites]


Am I wrong or is baseball not struggling with the fact that its demographic is aging, male and white? I'm a little superstitious but if that's still the case, I won't worry about bobble head claims

Google tells me major league baseball fans are 70% male, 50% 55 and over, and 83% non-hispanic white. If Trump didn't win a demographic that looked like that I'd wonder what was going on.
posted by Francis at 6:14 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also, Lee County went almost 60/40 for Romney last election. I'm confident that Nate Silver is not going to put much stock in Bobblection.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 6:17 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Obama is kinda more Bobbly too. No opinion on the Bush one.
posted by Artw at 6:18 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Whoa, the Nowcast just updated to 65% Trump victory based on this hot hot bobblehead news
posted by theodolite at 6:19 PM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]




It's all good though, his ex-wife mysteriously failed to testify.
posted by theodolite at 6:29 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


Polls are closed. I'm calling it for Pie.

For real, guys: we have got to talk about MeFi's blatant pro-pie bias. It's like nobody even acknowledged the existence of the cake supporters.

Pie is fine, and I'll vote for it in the general if I have to choose between pie and curdled racist rat's milk pudding, but c'mon.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:29 PM on August 25, 2016 [23 favorites]


From Kevin Drum at Washington Monthly, "Here's Why Hillary Clinton Talked About Racism and the Alt-Right Today":
Why did she do this? The most popular explanation is that she was giving "permission" for moderate Republicans to stay home in November. [...]

But I'll propose a different explanation: she was giving the press permission to talk about Donald Trump's racism. So far, they've tiptoed around it. But once the candidate herself calls it out, it invites a thousand think pieces about Breitbart, the alt-right, the GOP's history of tolerating bigotry, Trump's troubling background, and dozens of other related topics. Surrogates can blather all they want about this, but it doesn't truly become a mainstream subject until the actual candidate for president makes it one.

This is part of the agenda-setting power that presidential candidates have.
Of course, these explanations are not mutually exclusive. I do think that the "giving the press permission" angle is a pretty good observation.
posted by mhum at 6:32 PM on August 25, 2016 [67 favorites]


Two from George Lakoff (previously)

Understanding Trump - To stand up to Trump, first we have to understand who he appeals to, and why.

Pay Close Attention—Trump Means Exactly What He Says - Trump is swaying millions with his calculated rhetoric.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:34 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


innocent until proven guilty though ArtW...
posted by Windopaene at 6:36 PM on August 25, 2016


It doesn't exactly sound like it, no.
posted by Artw at 6:40 PM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


You're right, we shouldn't be too hard on the CEO of a radically misogynist hate news site just because some police report narrates, in detail, a harrowing account of his attack on his wife
posted by theodolite at 6:42 PM on August 25, 2016 [33 favorites]


OK, so forgive me if this is not 100% coherent, as I'm deep into a second very strong glass of election-and-work-stress rum... but I had a sudden surge of insight watching Hillary's speech a little bit ago, and it's made me feel all warm and fuzzy. (Part of that might be the rum, too, but, you know...)

The Clintons spent 8 years as the apex of a vicious, organized campaign by the nascent elements of the modern GOP to discredit, dishonor, and demoralize them at every possible turn. They survived this, and went on to respectable public life afterwards, without ever losing touch with the power world. In 2008, Hillary went to war against Obama and lost to a surprising upstart who was able to bring previously apathetic political sectors (young, certain minority blocks) in to play. She then went and stood by her former opponents side, building diplomatic alliances as SoS while almost certainly also partaking in a bi-directional lesson with the Obama crowd: teaching him how to play the game that they wove their way through, while he impressed upon her how to shape the current electoral forces.

Now, in 2016, we have an Obama organization that has spent 8 years weathering a massively cynical, obstructionist opposition -- and, as much as he may have disappointed some of us, history books will probably relate in amazement just how much he's been able to achieve. Yes, there have been some missteps, but they've been learned from. And the most important part: this political expertise, this master of the modern electorate, battle-hardened by 8 years of having the most regressive, vile obstructions thrown in its way and surpassing them... it has now unified with the Clinton legacy in a way in which they act almost as force-multipliers for each other.

Watching the speech today, and thinking about it afterwards, it struck me just how masterful both the timing and the tone were. In so many ways it feels like the HRC campaign is playing the same 11th-dimensional chess that many people like to think the Obama campaign used to beat them... but they're playing it against an opponent that the Clintons beat, survived, and surpassed 20 years ago.

Once you get past the vile talking yam's id-based primal scream of rage and fear of lost privilege, the remainder of the (weakened, demoralized) GOP team are playing from the playbook that they used 20 years ago, and have tried to use since, and it has never worked for them. Hillary has survived all of this, she has learned from it. She may not be a perfect person, but god damn it is she a good enough person, and double god damn it is she ready for this battle.

There are still doubts and fears, but right now, I am totally confident that we are seeing a democratic machine that has had it stumbles and falls, and failures and frustrating gaffes over the past 20-some years, but has come through it as a calm, intellectual, but unrelentingly vicious political force, and it sees before it its long-time rival, hoist by its own petard, struggling to handle the Frankenstein's monster it has built, and exposing its soft, ugly, pulsating underbelly of filth and hatred and vile, vile spew... and they're slashing it open.

The question isn't whether they win. They will. The question is just how dominating the landslide will be, and just how long they can make the coat tails. They got this, y'all.

This doesn't mean we can be lethargic. I was in Grant Park in November of '08 for the rally when Obama won. And I well recall the surge of youthful enthusiasm, the exultation, the barbaric yawp of victory that surged through the crowd afterwards as my wife and I walked down Michigan avenue. And I said to her, "I hope these kids realize this isn't the end. This is just the beginning, and the battle has only started" -- and oh how the years since have proven me right.

That battle keeps going, and we have to keep fighting, and can't let down our guards just because things seem good right now. But again, they got this, y'all. Keep your heads high and hold the line, and I think we're about to see some amazing ninja shit.

(And once the breach is open, by all that is good, let 'er rip. Tear that thing's throat out and make the world a better place.)

OK, enough drunken rambling. Hopefully I can come back and read this the next time I get too caught up in the momentary madness and need a moment of clarity...
posted by jammer at 6:45 PM on August 25, 2016 [106 favorites]


Yeah, getting late. Going to watch the first episode of Take My Wife as a chaser.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:57 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


bongo_x: "You guys don't get it; You think he's alienating more people all the time when in fact he's distilling his electorate down to only the most pure. By the time he's done they will be so few, but so loyal that...I'm not sure, but it's going to be amazing, trust me."

Marty: The last time Tap toured America, they where, uh, booked into 10,000 seat arenas, and 15,000 seat venues, and it seems that now, on their current tour they're being booked into 1,200 seat arenas, 1,500 seat arenas, and uh I was just wondering, does this mean uh...the popularity of the group is waning?
Ian: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no...no, no, not at all. I, I, I just think that the...uh...their appeal is becoming more selective.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:03 PM on August 25, 2016 [11 favorites]


From the latest Trump campaign email to hit my inbox:

SECOND, we need every Trump supporter to pass information daily to their social media contacts. That’s the only way we’ll overcome the bias mainstream media.

I guess expecting people to know "bias" is a noun is a lost cause at this point.

And now apparently their slogan now includes "for everyone" as in:

Together we will take back our country and make America great again for everyone!

I guess this is why right wingers are so fixated on the idea of political correctness -- it's their only motive for inclusiveness.
posted by pocketfullofrye at 7:08 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


At the time, Bannon was heading up the Beverly Hills-based Bannon & Co., described in a Bloomberg profile as “a boutique investment bank specializing in media.”

Wow that's the most non-suspicious thing I've seen in a long time! Yep I remember those heady days as a wee lad when I'd daydream and play a boutique investment banker specializing in media in the ol' treehouse.
posted by petebest at 7:10 PM on August 25, 2016 [15 favorites]


mhum: "From Kevin Drum at Washington Monthly"

Whoops. Sorry, that's actually from Mother Jones. Kevin Drum used to be at Washington Monthly a long time ago.

posted by mhum at 7:14 PM on August 25, 2016


a boutique investment bank specializing in media

Hahaha how did I miss that? If you uttered those words at a Trump rally someone would spit on you
posted by theodolite at 7:15 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


The only reason dogwhistles exist is because the media aren't doing their job. You had one job, media! Inform the public!

well, that and whistling for dogs.
posted by petebest at 7:15 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


Hillary's speech is a tactical strike aimed at forcing Trump to shift to one of two unfavorable grounds. He can embrace his alt-right allies and defend them, alienating moderates and conservatives who are uncomfortable with naked bigotry. Or he can repudiate them, enraging his strongest core of support (see: Ann Coulter). She's trying to drive him down to the 27% crazification floor.
posted by EarBucket at 7:15 PM on August 25, 2016 [27 favorites]


NBC news summarizes this with "Trump Accuses Clinton of 'Bullying' With Charges of Racism"

A few years back, in response to some false equivalence/argument to moderation bullshit the US press was engaging in when reporting on a conflict between Obama and the Republicans where the President was clearly correct and the Republicans were being straight up ignorant, I theorized that if Obama said the moon was made of rock and the Republicans said it was made of green cheese, "in order to be fair," the US media would report "Obama, Republicans differ on moon." But if Obama said the moon was made of green cheese and the Republicans said it was made of rock, the US press would report on it as "Obama wrong on moon, say Republicans."

Simultaneously gratifying and horrifying to see a form of my vision come to pass.
posted by lord_wolf at 7:18 PM on August 25, 2016 [65 favorites]


A Majority of Republicans Are Cool With ‘Amnesty’:
Only 18 percent of Americans believe that undocumented immigrants “are not as honest and hardworking as U.S. citizens.” Among Trump’s strongest supporters, that figure is 34 percent — six points higher than among Republican voters, as a whole. Even more starkly, while just 27 percent of all voters think the undocumented are more likely to commit “serious crimes” than are other Americans, 59 percent of Trump’s base says the opposite. That puts Trumpists out of step for the majority of their own Party, as 52 percent of Republicans say the undocumented are no more criminal than the rest of us sinners.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:33 PM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


boutique investment bank specializing in media


is it just me or does this scream "apartment where lawyers for sony pictures go after work to do lines" to anyone else
posted by murphy slaw at 7:34 PM on August 25, 2016 [18 favorites]


That Lakoff article linked above was excellent, and I highly recommend it.

How Can Democrats Do Better?

First, don’t think of an elephant. Remember not to repeat false conservative claims and then rebut them with the facts. Instead, go positive. Give a positive truthful framing to undermine claims to the contrary. Use the facts to support positively-framed truth. Use repetition.


I don't think that necessarily implies what goes on in the clubhouse here, though.
posted by petebest at 7:47 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


The Five Stages of Ann Coulter's Trump Grief

I hate her so much.

This whole... whatever pocket universe we're currently living in idk, has really done wonders to justify my lifelong hate (well, not lifelong because there wasn't a www until I was in, like, college) of trolls both major and minor. All these motherfuckers are trolls and I always knew, even back before there was a word for it, that people being "ironic" as a "social experiment" weren't being ironic and the only experiment being done was a constant testing of the waters for when it would be okay to drop the irony altogether and just let that gobshite flag fly.

It's all just pages from the troll playbook brought into real life and deployed on goddamn CNN. Are we in the fucking matrix?
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:49 PM on August 25, 2016 [17 favorites]


Where's the predictit.org contract for "Trump is booed at own rally, loses his marbles by August 31"
posted by theodolite at 7:54 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


From Kevin Drum at Washington Monthly"

Whoops. Sorry, that's actually from Mother Jones. Kevin Drum used to be at Washington Monthly a long time ago.


Last week, I had Kevin Drum and David Frum mixed up in my head for almost three days. Dunno how I'm gonna make it to November, y'all.
posted by EatTheWeek at 7:57 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


That's optimistic, theodolite. I predict he'll lose his marbles at debate time. I'm still a real proponent of Hillary destroying Donald's fragile psyche. Her speech today was a good opening salvo.
posted by yasaman at 7:58 PM on August 25, 2016 [15 favorites]


The only reason dogwhistles exist is because the media aren't doing their job. You had one job, media! Inform the public!

Two words: plausible deniability. It used to be the dog whistles were subtle enough that even if you were pretty savvy, you might not pick up on them. Even now, the people blowing them can still, pretty regularly, get away with playing the victim card or the PC run amok card if they're not too blatant about things.

With Trump, though, it's not so much a dog whistle as a dog beat on a trash can with a mop handle - you'd think that'd be pretty easy to point out.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:59 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


He can embrace his alt-right allies and defend them, alienating moderates and conservatives who are uncomfortable with naked bigotry. Or he can repudiate them, enraging his strongest core of support (see: Ann Coulter).

Or go with Plan C: "Nobody even knows what the alt-right is".
posted by yhbc at 8:02 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


I just watched Hillary's speech linked here. Oh, man. Please, if you haven't, take the half hour. Bookmark it for later. She just lays it all out, without fanfare or hyperbole. Truly powerful.
posted by wallabear at 8:02 PM on August 25, 2016 [38 favorites]


chuck tingle/tuck chingle


POUNDED IN THE ASS BY DEMOCRACY 2020
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:05 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


bannon appears to be responding to the oppo dump with aplomb
I asked Bannon to respond to the domestic abuse reports. He said he is "not doing media."
posted by murphy slaw at 8:16 PM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


I said something like this a couple of megathreads ago, but here goes my new version.

Why has the media treated Trump with such soft, kid gloves?

It's because they're letting him extend all the rope he can.

Sure, they could have been harder, earlier. But they waited til he was the actual, not presumptive, nominee.

They then waited longer, so they could see who else was willing to put their necks on the line for him.

The closer we get to the election, the more that rope becomes a noose.

I sincerely think that a lot of the people in the media KNOW and are SICK AND TIRED of all of the "false equivalency" crap, and the "present both sides" crap that they have to perform on air, while retching off-air.

And this is where they, collectively (but not collaboratively), decided to turn the tide.

There is such an orgy of video audio and text evidence of abhorrent behavior from the alt-right movement. And this connects to the obstructionism in Congress in insidious ways.

And for the Donald to be railing against the media, while he needs the media for his life blood?

They're sick of it. They're done with it. The next 80 days will be a carefully constructed pulling back of the curtain.

[wishful thinking]
posted by yesster at 8:21 PM on August 25, 2016 [14 favorites]


I asked Bannon to respond to the domestic abuse reports. He said he is "not doing media."

Well, that's a novel strategy for someone in a Presidential campaign.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:23 PM on August 25, 2016 [34 favorites]


The media has been treating Trump with "soft, kid gloves" for over 40 years. Why should they stop just when he becomes a threat to the entire nation and not just his investors, employees and contractors?
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:31 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


[wishful thinking]

Then they wait for him to be president... One terms... Two terms... And then, THEY STRIKE!
posted by Artw at 8:32 PM on August 25, 2016 [43 favorites]


Bannon resigns on August 28. The next campaign manager lasts four days; the one after that, eight hours. As their average length of tenure - call it 'x' - approaches zero, the number of ex-campaign managers - 'y' - climbs into the thousands, then the millions. Soon, the living population of Earth has been hired, disgraced, and removed. With 58 days to go before the election, the Trump/Pence campaign stares up at the billion ancient stars...
posted by theodolite at 8:34 PM on August 25, 2016 [91 favorites]


I think there are some in the media who would love to go after Trump more. Especially after the threats they're receiving for simply doing their jobs. But in the end they have to work with the boss if they want to work and the boss doesn't care about what are lies/what is truth as long as they get viewers/clicks/ad impressions. Very few people are willing to rock the boat if their paycheck (and often their family's basic needs) depends on steering blindly ahead lighthouses be damned. Courage has a risk and, when everything is set up to discourage taking that risk, very few people will exercise it.

As always, keeping people desperate keeps them from fighting back.
posted by downtohisturtles at 8:38 PM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


The media has been treating Trump with "soft, kid gloves" for over 40 years.

Given his supposed mob connections, I'd say that's probably due to their sense of self-preservation.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:41 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


Oh God Jimmy Kimmel just featured Alex Jones and the pickle jar video
posted by yhbc at 8:41 PM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


> Lee Atwater didn't die. His soul was just released from its host, tortured some more in hell and then reinserted into Steve Bannon.

Charles Pierce back in February on Atwater's legacy: The Roots of Donald Trump's Candidacy Lie in a South Carolina Cemetery: Searching for the soul of South Carolina politics—and the modern Republican Party.

Pierce today on the alt-right: Trump Normalized Hate Groups. The Media Normalized Trump. Looking back on the week everyone in America started saying "alt-right."​
posted by homunculus at 8:48 PM on August 25, 2016 [13 favorites]


Bannon resigns on August 28. The next campaign manager lasts four days; the one after that, eight hours. As their average length of tenure - call it 'x' - approaches zero, the number of ex-campaign managers - 'y' - climbs into the thousands, then the millions. Soon, the living population of Earth has been hired, disgraced, and removed. With 58 days to go before the election, the Trump/Pence campaign stares up at the billion ancient stars...

When dealing with utterly ridiculous people like a Trump campaign manager I'm pretty sure it's customary to use an equally ridiculous unit of measure for time like the Kardashian. So the next campaign manager lasts 1/18th of a Kardashian, the next lasts 1/72nd of a Kardashian, the next 1/216th of a Kardashian and so forth.
posted by Talez at 8:49 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


Looking back on the week everyone in America started saying "alt-right."​

<hipster>I've been calling it alt-right since before Trump even started his campaign</hipster>
posted by Talez at 8:51 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


The problem with "alt-right" is it's too easy to morph it phonetically to "alright" and it quickly becomes a positive thing. I mean, there's nothing inherently negative in the term to begin with. It just doesn't sell as a perjoritive.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:57 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


(posted upthread) Understanding Trump - To stand up to Trump, first we have to understand who he appeals to, and why.

This person managed to write a 6500 word essay on the theme of Trump's motivation.

Seemed interesting. I clicked thru. Kind of a cringy part at the beginning where the author spent a bit long establishing his bona fides, but eh, he's an aging academic, it happens, teaches at UC Berkeley... sure, whatever

*read read read*

ok this is getting kind of weirdly... hang on...

*ctrl-f "race"*

3 hits

hmm seems low but ok let's see what they are

great many local political races

ummm

contraception

ummmmmmm

contraception

huh?

no actual mention of race. ok, this can't be a...

*looks at end of article*

Give up identity politics. No more women’s issues, black issues, Latino issues. Their issues are all real, and need public discussion. But they all fall under freedom issues, human issues. And address poor whites! Appalachian and rust belt whites deserve your attention as much as anyone else. Don’t surrender their fate to Trump, who will just increase their suffering.

ohhhhhh.

yeah about that

#blacklivesmatter
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:58 PM on August 25, 2016 [21 favorites]


This person is George Lakoff, do some research, he's pretty legit.
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:03 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


This person is George Lakoff, do some research, he's pretty legit.

Meh, Lakoff's been peddling his research as the key to understanding modern American politics for a long time now. His bonafides are legit, but his now decades long quest to show how applying his theories will give democrats the power to message properly and win over the populace is tiresome, questionable, quixotic. He thinks he's got the universal solvent for our ills, and he just doesn't. And anyway, I read Women, Fire and Dangerous Things and thought: this is a book about language by someone who has never read any philosophy of language.
posted by dis_integration at 9:08 PM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]


Nate Silver:
Hey, I just met you.
Amnesty's crazy!
But here's my policy:
Deport you, maybe?
posted by guiseroom at 9:15 PM on August 25, 2016 [14 favorites]


Dismiss him if you must, but the history of the past two decades is that conservatives in this country are better at framing than the left is. Time and time again they manage, with "pro-life", with the 2nd amendment, with "radical islam" to frame the debate on their terms. they win the race to the language we use in our discourse, and that language matters because it resonates with regular folks.
Lakoff may not have answers, but his approach is correct. In order for the left to win the hearts and minds, they need to frame the issues first.
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:17 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


Just learned a relative, a very conservative Christian (a great and non crazy person though), home schooling, the whole bit, is completely freaking out about the election because they hate Trump so much. Has never been that worked up about politics but now says they're ashamed to be an American and don't know if they can associate with anyone who votes for him. This is pretty stunning to us.

That's all, just an interesting anecdote.
posted by bongo_x at 9:18 PM on August 25, 2016 [45 favorites]


Yeah, I don't know enough about cognitive psych to really give an opinion on his cred there.

But I'm looking at an article he wrote in early September 2008 (the 11th, to be precise) and he seems pretty convinced that McCain's brilliant choice of VP had just lost the election for hapless Obama:
It looks like, in certain respects, the Obama campaign is making some of the same mistakes of the Hillary campaign and the Kerry and Gore campaigns.

The Dayton speech on education had fine policy, but was the first really deadly dull Obama speech I've heard. It started out with lots of numbers. True, but dull. And he is promising more of the same policy wonk speeches. He's right that we are facing serious realities, and he's right to say what he intends to do, but the old inspiring Obama just isn't there. And the surrogates -- Biden and Hillary -- are policy-wonking it too.

I hope I'm wrong. Given my great respect for those who ran the nomination campaign so well, I wonder if I should say anything at all. But, as I predicted, Palin has turned out to be effective and the Obama campaign has not been effective in dealing with her. I've been getting loads of email asking me to say something to the campaign. So with some hesitation and a great deal of respect, I will simply point out what I see.
Now to be clear, I don't get an asshole/troll/Scott Adams vibe from him. I'd diagnose his condition rather as Moore's Handwringing Syndrome, probably comorbid with Engineer's Disease (social sciences type) and presenting with unexamined white privilege.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:21 PM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


Politics and linguistics... two great tastes... nah. It's never made any sense to me, tbh. (Gives Noam the side-eye.)
Dismiss him if you must, but the history of the past two decades is that conservatives in this country are better at framing than the left is.
I mean, if liberals really want to start winning, they'll liberate the behavioral economists from the phone app industry, where they're currently embroiled in the practical work of getting people to spend more on Candy Crush than their car payment. I'm only joking a little.
posted by xyzzy at 9:23 PM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


Dismiss him if you must, but the history of the past two decades is that conservatives in this country are better at framing than the left is.

In a complex world, real, functional solutions don't lend themselves to pithy black'n'white oversimplifications like "2nd amendment rights." Solutions need real thought and nuance, which is tough to come by in our soundbite politics. I guess I don't think that just "do what the right does, but for the left" makes any sense.

Also, privileged college professor maleperson dismisses concerns of women, PoC, et al? AND drops in a #whataboutthewhites? How unsurprising.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:23 PM on August 25, 2016 [18 favorites]


Maybe Trump's not buying ad time so there'll be something left in the campaign account to pay himself back for the loans he made to the campaign after he loses.

Lots of news sources are reporting as fact that Trump forgave $47 million in personal loans to his campaign. They are basing this on his monthly FEC filings showing $47 million in debts at the end of June and $0 in debts at the end of July.

But the curious thing about this is that in order to forgive a loan, the candidate must file a letter with the FEC on campaign letterhead and signed by the candidate indicating the forgiveness. Until the letter is filed with the FEC, the loan is still active. I've looked and that filing is nowhere to be found on the FEC site. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist somewhere, but I wouldn't trust the forgiveness story until I see that letter. It would be nice if someone in the media asked for a copy.

As to whether he can use campaign funds to repay himself later, that is forbidden once a loan is officially forgiven. There are no undo's allowed, which is why it would be nice to see the letter.
posted by JackFlash at 9:26 PM on August 25, 2016 [29 favorites]


I've read Lakoff and he's right about a lot of the language issue. But he has that problem where because he's so smart he fits everything into his theory of the world and discounts anything that doesn't fit into it. Brilliance doesn't prevent blinders.
posted by downtohisturtles at 9:27 PM on August 25, 2016 [7 favorites]


In a complex world, real, functional solutions don't lend themselves to pithy black'n'white oversimplifications like "2nd amendment rights.


No, but those oversimplifications put people at Trump rallies, and make it easy for a con-man to be the gop nominee.
The left doesn't have to do what the right does, but it has to recognize what the right does and combat it on those terms. the electorate is not as sophisticated as we here at metafilter would like them to be, and Lakoff, for all of his faults, is reminding us of that.
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:29 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


JackFlash are you saying that Donald Trump forgives debt the way Michael Scott declares bankruptcy?
posted by theodolite at 9:31 PM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]


(Gives Noam the side-eye.)

Yeah, '"noamic" is a now-deprecated term, the community decided to go with "Moore's" instead.

hey, who wants to help me write DSM fanfic?
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:31 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


they win the race to the language we use in our discourse, and that language matters because it resonates with regular folks.

Who are these "regular folks," though, and are there still enough of them to elect a president?

and are they only regular because of the Metamucil
posted by salix at 9:34 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


are there still enough of them to elect a president?

that's the fear isn't it?
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:43 PM on August 25, 2016


I will say that I do tend to agree with you, OHenryPacey, and with Lakoff on the importance of narrative. I continue to think that Dems and liberals need to find more and better ways to connect policy to a bigger story about where we've come from as a nation and where we're going. Obama was is really good at that. But typically Republicans have done better there than Democrats, for the last 30-40 years at least.

Clinton is not naturally this kind of a communicator (I think she'd be the first to say that). She speaks in prose: and in precise, detail-oriented prose at that. And I do think that deficiency was one cause of her loss in '08 and of Sanders' unexpectedly strong showing in the primaries this year. (Not the biggest cause, but certainly a part of it.)

She's learned from the past, though. (One of the nice fringe benefits of having the capacity for self-criticism.) She figured out other ways to get that narrative established, and as a result Hillary has a pretty solid narrative built: "just the pragmatic, nerdy Leslie Knope type that this country needs right now."
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:48 PM on August 25, 2016 [19 favorites]


In a complex world, real, functional solutions don't lend themselves to pithy black'n'white oversimplifications like "2nd amendment rights."

What do we want? Change! When do we want it? Well, there's a bunch of factors to consider...

(It's an old joke, I know.)

Your rhetoric doesn't have to reflect all the subtle nuances of the world around you. "Equality now!" isn't a nuanced policy position, but it's something people can get behind more easily than "let's work on slowly changing public opinion so there will be more pressure on politicians to do the right thing!" Even if that's how it ends up happening, sometimes it's better to rally around the end goal, not the process.
posted by teponaztli at 9:53 PM on August 25, 2016 [11 favorites]


just yesterday the University of Chicago announced it doesn't support trigger warnings or safe spaces

Apart from for dubious claims from its economic department who just bought a fainting couch for when Paul Krugman writes about them.
posted by holgate at 9:56 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


The Next Senate Is Poised to Have the Largest Number of Women in History:
There are currently 20 women in the United States Senate. That number, while still too low, represents a historic achievement: It’s the largest number of women who have ever served in the Senate. But now, as the Guardian reports, five women vying for Senate seats in swing states could not only move that historic bar, but also deliver the Senate back to the Democrats.
Websites all have Donate links if you're so inclined.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:04 PM on August 25, 2016 [27 favorites]


Kelli Ward is definitely not a Democrat!! I think you probably meant Ann Kirkpatrick.
posted by kms at 10:15 PM on August 25, 2016 [15 favorites]


Regarding jammer's excellent comment above: Not only is this happening, but it's pretty damn thrilling to watch. I think it was first evident as the DNC came into being, and it became quickly apparent that, holy shit, the Democrat strategy this year is fucking tight, and since then we've watched Trump implode with the slightest of nudges from Clinton.

"Slight" here isn't intended as a brush–off. I think Hillary and her team know how to manipulate their opponent like no other politician in history has.

Part of that is, it's Trump. He's kind of obvious. But he's obvious in a way that outsmarted and outmaneuvered a dozen–plus primary opponents, one or two of whom was pretty damn smart. He's not necessarily the easiest guy in the world to jujitsu. Unless you're Clinton, apparently.

Because the bigger thing here is: the Republicans have nothing. They have nothing on her, and they have nothing on policy, and they have nothing on motherfucking America. You can't blame the gays anymore, assholes! We had a black fucking president! More women than men will vote in November! You spent a generation screwing over every possible minority goddamn subset, because you had 51% of the vote as long as white men went your way, but now you don't have that, and you're going to lose the white men too if you keep this shit up!

And yeah, this is the "Clinton machine" if you will springing to life. Bill did some scummy things to become president, policy–wise, but he was also the chess master who knew how to outmaneuver goddamn everybody without portraying himself as a political messiah the way Obama did, and Hillary had to do that all backwards and in heels probably fairly sensible shoes. She's dealt with every sexism–related dogwhistle known to man. She's dealt with ninja assassin squads of sexism. Now she's up against a man who thinks she needs a pillow not to die.

Literally the only thing she has going against her is thirty years' worth of lies and slander. That's powerful, but none of it is contemporary. None of it is relevant. Everything that happens in this country, she is prepared to take it and spin it in a way that's geared towards making Middle America feel proud to be American in the quietly progressive way that she proposes. She can't so much as swat at a mosquito without somehow making it simultaneously a statement about progress and a barb aimed at Trump's heart. Look at how we panicked a week ago about Steve Bannon would finally revise Trump into a super–soldier. She took that and turned it into the best speech of the campaign season. She probably wrote that speech in 2007. Trump can try to arouse our dark democracy–hating fears, but the more he pushes that button, the more Hillary can sell herself as the banner for the sort of peace, pride, and prosperity America loves to hear about.

The more she wins, the more desperately vile Trump will have to get, and the more easily her next victory will come to her. That's not saying we don't live in a scary time. But the Republican hand has been played, it tallies up to just slightly less than the Democrats', and no attempt at normalizing this will work once there's a set narrative of Them standing up for hatred and shittiness and Us standing up for basic human decency. I know we despair about advertising and shallow masses and so on and so forth, but brand messaging works both ways. You can make the shallow masses flip over to liking profoundly more humane policies if the elevator pitch starts sounding better than the elevator pitch for fire and brimstone.

This is the year the wave breaks, and we have the single most competent politician in political memory poised to lead the country right as it does. I loved Obama and his victories gave me hope, but Hillary's pushed me past hope into genuinely feeling pretty proud of my country, which is a weird goddamn feeling to have as a person whose earliest political memory is of 9/11! What the fuck is it like to have a wonky, hypercompetent president who puts effort into caring about the issues and plans out ways to make America actively better of a place? I have no goddamn idea. But this suddenly feels like a country that was worth growing up in. 2016 is scary, and the stakes are goddamn high, but there's also this thrilling sense that this victory means more than any I've seen in my lifetime, and that its origins are so fundamentally rooted in decades of history and social progress that the end result feels fated, and thoroughly deserved.

And with all that, I still went in to teach a new person how to do data entry tonight. Because why take risks, and why not squeeze a couple extra tears off Trump's face for posterity's sake?
posted by rorgy at 10:15 PM on August 25, 2016 [91 favorites]


Are you saying that Donald Trump forgives debt the way Michael Scott declares bankruptcy?

Here's why that is important. Campaigns are allowed to continue to collect donations after the election to pay off campaign debts. It is not uncommon to take two years to finally pay off salaries owed to campaign managers, pollsters, printers, etc.

But there is a special limitation for loans from the candidate. You can only use funds that are in the campaign bank account on the day of the election to pay back candidate personal loans. After the election they can only take in $250,000 to pay debts to the candidate.

So if Trump wants to get his $47 million back, he needs to have that money in hand before the election. This might explain holding back on spending before the election. It would be nice to see the letter proving that Trump has forgiven his loan to the campaign.
posted by JackFlash at 10:20 PM on August 25, 2016 [26 favorites]


There was an article posted a few threads back which suggested that communication was simply one factor amongst several that comprised a successful political campaign, but it's importance is over-emphasized because political power is constructed in the image of men, and it tends to be men who dominate the list of Great Communicators. Policy and coalition-building in contrast get short shrift as they are considered fussy, detail-oriented pursuits conducted behind the scenes in nondescript meeting rooms. Vaguely feminine somehow. So this is why the Lakoffs and Moores and Scott Adamses keeping harping on what is said: they are over-privileging the importance of public messaging because they have developed a blinkered view of politics that focuses on the kinds of things they think men are the best at.
posted by um at 10:24 PM on August 25, 2016 [35 favorites]


I'm visiting just outside San Antonio Texas and drove through a big old middle class(?) neighborhood and there was one Hillary lawn sign. It made me realize I had yet to see one Trump sign my whole trip. I would have thought there'd be quite a bit of signs up at this point.
posted by Spumante at 10:25 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Rorgy: what is training for data entry? The folks I learned from barely knew how to find stuff. I think I've already figured out how to do stuff they weren't too clear on. Is there a guide book somewhere? I should probably ask. I think we have one at the campaign office. But every Wed/Sun (except vacation) I'm going in and usually I just get to work. :)
posted by R343L at 10:30 PM on August 25, 2016


Kelli Ward is definitely not a Democrat!! I think you probably meant Ann Kirkpatrick.
Dang it! I regret the error.

posted by kirkaracha at 10:32 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Maggie Hassan in New Hampshire is running against a Republican woman, Kelly Ayotte, so that would be zero sum as far as change in the number of current senators who are women. (It's a Class 3/six-year-term seat, so that will be nice if we can swing it, so please donate anyways as kirkaracha suggests if you're so inclined!) For a little while our congressional delegation was entirely women, and with luck the outcome in November will be a return to 100% women but 100% Democrats this time.

In the course of grabbing Wikipedia links I ran across the fact that there used to be a Fantasy Congress web site.
posted by XMLicious at 10:39 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


um: "Policy and coalition-building in contrast get short shrift as they are considered fussy, detail-oriented pursuits conducted behind the scenes in nondescript meeting rooms. Vaguely feminine somehow."

Hey, remember when Republicans were hanging "community organizer" on Obama like it was an insult? I even remember thinking at the time, "WTF? Community organizers are how a bunch of shit gets done. What are they even talking about?" This, I think, explains all of it.
posted by mhum at 10:40 PM on August 25, 2016 [29 favorites]


Oh, forgot to mention, in New Hampshire Carol Shea-Porter is the House campaign you'd want to donate to, to return New Hampshire to an all-women delegation. They keep knocking her down but she keeps getting back up.
posted by XMLicious at 10:52 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yes, they tried to portray the idea of meeting with community representatives, listening to them and co-ordinating a plan of action as somehow seedy. Real men change-makers just give a speech, or an interview, or a press-conference and change somehow coalesces around that.
posted by um at 10:53 PM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]


Change itself is seedy and liberal. Real men give speeches congratulating themselves for keeping everything the same then go shoot their guns.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:57 PM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]


They keep knocking her down but she keeps getting back up.

You are never gonna keep her down.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:58 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


I don't think Hillary is bad at speechifying in any case, but I feel like maybe my standards aren't calibrated the same way as Americans are. Obama's speeches always struck me as dull (but reassuring) droning, but to everyone else his speeches are amazing. Trump's speeches are gibberish, but it stings a little when people point to them as possible evidence of dementia. My dad had dementia and he sounded nothing like Trump, and in the end he didn't talk at all. Hillary's speeches are fine, but it's her coalition that will win the election. I don't think Trump will ever understand that.
posted by um at 11:03 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


Clinton, Trump exchange racially charged accusations:
A series of racially charged accusations dominated the presidential campaign Thursday, with Democrat Hillary Clinton accusing Donald Trump of “taking hate groups mainstream,” while the Republican nominee repeatedly claimed that Clinton is a “bigot” toward African Americans.
Because a half-hour speech with annotations and quotations is the same as random bloviation. The Washington Post's John Wagner and Jenna Johnson should be ashamed of this false-equivalency bullshit.
And God damn it, where is the hyphen in "racially charged"?
posted by kirkaracha at 11:53 PM on August 25, 2016 [27 favorites]


(Copy editor here. I've yet to see a style guide that calls for hyphenated adverbial phrases with -ly, as hyphens don't add clarity there. But publishers want all sorts of odd things, so I wouldn't rule it out.)
posted by salix at 12:07 AM on August 26, 2016 [20 favorites]


Trump did an interview this afternoon were he pulled his "Golly Gee I don't know anything about that" act that has served him so well. This time he was asked about his adviser, Al Baldasaro, who has said repeatedly that Clinton should be shot for treason.

@JuddLegum: Trump is not familiar with:

1. The alt-right

2. David Duke

3. His campaign CEO

4. His own tweets

5. Things he's said publicly

posted by zombieflanders at 3:02 AM on August 26, 2016 [39 favorites]


language by someone who has never read any philosophy of language.

I'm not a big Lakoff fan, but I've met him and that's ridiculous. He's a major senior figure in linguistics and I guarantee he's read more philosophy of language than you have. Look at his CV. He cowrote quite a bit of stuff with a major philosopher.

Problem with his theory of politics is that Orwell said it better a long time ago.
posted by spitbull at 3:37 AM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


also by Judd Legum at thinkprogress.org:

The Most Important Reaction To Hillary Clinton’s Speech On Trump’s Racism: The sound of silence.

...

Still, Trump is the leader of the Republican Party. Branding him a racist is a fundamental threat to the viability of the party now and in the future.

You would expect the leaders and elected officials of the party to rally to his side, blast Clinton’s speech as a smear and demand an apology.

Instead, there has been silence.

Paul Ryan, the Republican Speaker of The House, has two Twitter accounts. Collectively the accounts have posted 31 times on Thursday. Five hours later, he’s posted nothing about the speech.
...

posted by sebastienbailard at 3:48 AM on August 26, 2016 [36 favorites]


In a Wall Street Journal survey, no former members of the White House Council of Economic Advisers—spanning eight presidents—openly support Donald Trump: Economists Who’ve Advised Presidents Are No Fans of Donald Trump
posted by peeedro at 3:52 AM on August 26, 2016 [8 favorites]




So I'm waiting to go get a chunk gouged out of my flesh and sewn up by the doctor, and somehow this promoted tweet is more irritating.

Who's the real scammer here? Trump, or these people with their Arthurian B&B that think they can get this SkyMall-ass sword to sit in the White House next to the Resolute Desk?
posted by Countess Elena at 4:52 AM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


It's only a model.
posted by farlukar at 4:56 AM on August 26, 2016 [13 favorites]


Hillary will be on Morning Joe (MSNBC) at 8:30 (about 30 minutes from now).
posted by cashman at 4:57 AM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


I guarantee he's read more philosophy of language than you have. Look at his CV. He cowrote quite a bit of stuff with a major philosopher.

It might be nice to see him cite some of it or engage with some of it, then. He doesn't seem to do that even in the work he publishes in scholarly journals; it's just cognitive linguistics surrounded with an awful lot of interpretation. And in his books, there are an awful lot of places where he seems to claim that he's overturning thousands of years of Western philosophy with his "all metaphors are physical" idea.

"Everything they know in that other discipline is wrong" is not the mark of a serious foray into someone else's field. And Lakoff's claims about how public discourse changes would seem to require a significant amount of interdisciplinary research as support; where, for example,is he drawing on political science research into electoral outcomes, or even frequency tables of word and metaphor use in mass media to show a trend towards one frame or another that correlates to a similar trend in electoral or policy outcomes?

His work for the general public tend to read as just-so stories. And, like Orwell, he tends to downplay or ignore the generative and "bottom-up" creation of language, as well as the existence of diverse sociolinguistic cultures within a given society.
posted by kewb at 4:59 AM on August 26, 2016 [9 favorites]


Rorgy: what is training for data entry? The folks I learned from barely knew how to find stuff. I think I've already figured out how to do stuff they weren't too clear on. Is there a guide book somewhere? I should probably ask. I think we have one at the campaign office. But every Wed/Sun (except vacation) I'm going in and usually I just get to work. :)

Assuming everybody uses VAN/Votebuilder, and not just my office: training consists of teaching newcomers how to load new phone bank lists, how to modify the view to show as many rows per page as appear in the printed lists, how to cite themselves as the data people, and which randomly–positioned checkboxes that change on literally every goddamn list match up with randomly–positioned data columns that seemingly get modified on the goddamn live site every couple hours. Basic stuff, really, plus my secret tips for speeding the process up, which mostly are: know how to look at a piece of paper.

(My local team is fantastically enthusiastic, but their tech literacy, seeing as they're all my age or a few years younger, is staggeringly poor. I'd be nervous about them seeing this comment, as I really do like them all very much, but I'm reasonably certain that only one or two of them has figured out that you can acquire valuable information using a computer by means of looking at its screen.)
posted by rorgy at 5:02 AM on August 26, 2016 [15 favorites]


also by Judd Legum at thinkprogress.org:

The Most Important Reaction To Hillary Clinton’s Speech On Trump’s Racism: The sound of silence.

From the linked article: Some prominent Republicans might not be criticizing Hillary’s speech because they agree with it.

At the very least they haven't figured out a plausible way to deny it.
posted by jon1270 at 5:07 AM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump is not familiar with:

I notice that "farcical aquatic ceremonies" is not on that list
posted by thelonius at 5:11 AM on August 26, 2016 [9 favorites]


At the very least they haven't figured out a plausible way to deny it.

I suspect that the Republican establishment sees this as win-win; either Trump disavows these people and they get their party back, or Trump doesn't and they blame Election 2016 on the lunatic fringe and declare that they're taking the party back.
posted by kewb at 5:18 AM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


This ain't the place to argue sociolinguistic theory, but as far as I am concerned the current state of the general model sees language as both behavior and cognition. Lakoff and Mark Johnson were instrumental in theorizing why that is not really an opposition anyway.

We aren't discussing his scholarly work, just public pieces he writes as a partisan. My point is just that mocking him for being philosophically illiterate is just patently wrong and churlish given his record as a scholar.

I happen to be much closer to your view of language myself (as a linguistic anthropologist). But Lakoff's work on metaphor and embodiment is incredibly useful for understanding the generativity of linguistic practice "from the bottom up."

Lakoff isn't analyzing language as a scholar here. He's analyzing (correctly) the semantic structure of poltical rhetoric as a partisan public intellectual.

The argument you're referencing is as old as semiotic theory itself, indeed as old as philosophy itself. I myself would call Lakoff much closer to the behaviorist side of things than most cognitive scientists who have thought about language seriously (certainly than Chomsky, who has occasionally explained why his Cartesian theory of mind informs his politics, which are of course notably idealistic). Lakoff doesn't identify as a "sociolinguist," but in my PHD years no sociolinguist would have gotten away without Lakoff on the exam bibliography.

It's worth mentioning that his ex-wife Robin Lakoff (also at Berkeley) is frequently referred to as the founding mother of feminist sociolinguistics and that her work provides a salutary critique of the gender biases of her ex-husband's brand of cognitive science.
posted by spitbull at 5:20 AM on August 26, 2016 [22 favorites]


Just read through Trump's tweetgasm of last night. It amuses me that he mentions the shortness of Clinton's speech several times--which he ties into her lack of stamina--but goes on to say he watched a recap.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:29 AM on August 26, 2016 [13 favorites]


Can we please take the sociolinguistics derail to MetaTalk and leave this thread for discussion of the election?
posted by pxe2000 at 5:30 AM on August 26, 2016 [11 favorites]




This is a troubling development.
“When I agreed to be Hillary’s VP, I was ready for some sleepless nights,” said Tim Kaine in an official statement dictated to a nearby cashier at Cinnabon. “And now I am ready for a new Jeep Wrangler.”
posted by rorgy at 5:31 AM on August 26, 2016 [14 favorites]


Trump campaign chief is registered to vote in Florida at unoccupied home

That's normal, regular people voter fraud, not the sinister democrat kind.
posted by Artw at 5:33 AM on August 26, 2016 [23 favorites]


I asked Bannon to respond to the domestic abuse reports. He said he is "not doing media."

Y'know who *is* doing media? The new head of Global Oil - your bahss!
posted by petebest at 5:39 AM on August 26, 2016


That's probably just the first of several different locations where Bannon is registered... Trump himself no doubt sends in absentee ballots from all his addresses.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:40 AM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Just read through Trump's tweetgasm of last night. It amuses me that he mentions the shortness of Clinton's speech several times--which he ties into her lack of stamina--but goes on to say he watched a recap.

That's not the worst tweet. The worst one is dragging out Robert Byrd again. A presidential candidate is slagging off with such intellectual dishonesty. Can you imagine any other candidate on the Republican stage doing that? No because it's just that fucking stupid.
posted by Talez at 5:43 AM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Pxe2000, we are discussing Geroge Lakoff's widely cited analysis of the election and whether it's right or not. It's not a "derail" any more than a *hundred* other side conversations in this 2200 comment thread, it's certainly not appropriate for a MeTa (as it has nothing to do with site policy), and It's interesting that you'd pick this particular side conversation of 4 comments to add a comment that is in itself a snarky "derail."

The semantic framing of political rhetoric is highly germane to this election. Lakoff's pieces are being widely read and discussed around this election. They deal with this election. The philosophical and scholarly basis of his (controversial) analysis are crucial for evaluating his critique.
posted by spitbull at 5:45 AM on August 26, 2016 [13 favorites]


Idea: for the election night thread we vote for a president of Election Threads. I nominate tivalasvegas
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:51 AM on August 26, 2016 [7 favorites]


Does the Byrd thing mean that Trump knows who the KKK are now? Because he's previously been rather vague on that point.
posted by Artw at 5:51 AM on August 26, 2016 [25 favorites]


Hillary called in to Morning Joe, ostensibly to talk about the rise of white goddamn supremacy, and they are only asking about the foundation, emails, and "trust."

At least Mika seems appropriately ashamed.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:52 AM on August 26, 2016 [20 favorites]


The semantic framing of poltical rhetoric is highly germane to this election.

Not on my watch! *taps wrist*
posted by valkane at 5:53 AM on August 26, 2016 [22 favorites]


I am going to go back through all the election threads and make a note of all the derails from the beginning until the end of the election. Then, and only then, will I have the definite "weirdest derail."

(this one ranks quite low)
posted by Tevin at 5:54 AM on August 26, 2016 [10 favorites]


I find that a lot of contemporary sociolinguistics rhetoric has become the worst possible example of identity politics from the Left, particularly among White feminists, and that Robin Lakoff is one of the main examples of how mainstream feminist sociolinguistics has benefited upper-class White women at the expense of working-class women and women of color. I can see where mentioning Robin Lakoff in particular could lead this thread to a longer derail.

Discussing the logic behind Trump's dangerous rhetoric is fine, but debating the good points of Lakoff and her ex-husband are further afield than I think is appropriate for a thread about the election.
posted by pxe2000 at 5:57 AM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Bad news guys I'm at a bagel joint outside of Boston and these old crackers are claiming Trumps got a secret plan to "drawp bams on that bitch Hillary in Awktoba" and win the election.

Other things:
Michelle's a bitch
Obamas had everything handed to him on a silver platter because of affirmative action
Political correctness ruining the country
Black lives matter worse than KKK
Obama worst president in history
All numbers reported on economy are bullshit
In France they have the ability to force women to take off "Burkeens" sad we can't do this in America
How dare they call Trump a racist! Sure he's racist but only because he's forced to be
Glad they are 60+ years old because being born in the 50s as a white man you had a chance to get rich


Sorry to disappoint time to shut it down Democrats
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:00 AM on August 26, 2016 [43 favorites]


Socioliguistic theory aside, (Neeeeerrrrrrrrrds!), I think the key takeaway- other than framing- was the Strict Father versus Nuturing Parent models. It's not too deep but I can't recall an election where it's been more front-and-center.

(Understanding Trump )

Also, it was written almost 300 Kardashians ago, on July 23. For context, HC had been playing it pretty cool, laying sort of low, letting Chetonius the Smug have his rope.

But it addresses something we haven't talked much about other than wtf. Why Trump and his die-harders are like they are. Look at smilin' Fred Trump. You think he told Li'l Don he could be anything he wanted to be? Maybe he comforted him with "it's okay to cry sometimes"? Fred brought him home something small, special, just for Donnie? Hell no. You could never please old man Trump except to pledge undying fealty and to emulate his most ruthless traits.

That guy was a complete a-hole. I haven't read it as such, but it wouldn't be totally shocking if he were an abusive drunk. That wouldn't have been easy to get through for young Don or anybody. And now it's all *this. *
posted by petebest at 6:02 AM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


This is the most racist rant I've ever heard and that includes playing poker with Baltimore polish gangsters who used the n word with impunity. I've always heard that Boston had a ton of racist fucks, but I guess I usually don't encounter them because I'm usually at work when they're out?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:03 AM on August 26, 2016 [7 favorites]


It looks like Hilldawg supporters are getting in on dank memes.
posted by Talez at 6:05 AM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Can we not have "Reports from the field" on ugly racist comments? Why do we need that?
posted by zutalors! at 6:06 AM on August 26, 2016 [15 favorites]


The RNC communications director is on MSNBC right now trying to defend Trump, so....the establishment hasn't cut ties yet.

Somehow.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:09 AM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


hmm fair enough didn't mean to be upsetting. My point in reporting is a. So I don't yell at old people at the bagel shop and b. These guys are normal Boston old guy types clearly empowered by Trumps rhetoric. They might think these things but they're essentially performing their opinions in a crowded public space. Seems relevant to the election but I hear ya on not spamming upsetting garbage without cause. My bad!
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:10 AM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


Also, it was written almost 300 Kardashians ago, on July 23.

A Kardashian is 72 days. I think you may want to check your math.
posted by Talez at 6:11 AM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


In worse news, the bagel was extremely mediocre.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:12 AM on August 26, 2016 [16 favorites]


Holy moly Stephanie Reuhl is not taking any shit, either
posted by schadenfrau at 6:13 AM on August 26, 2016


In worse news, the bagel was extremely mediocre.
WELCOME TO NEW ENGLAND
posted by pxe2000 at 6:16 AM on August 26, 2016 [17 favorites]


Maybe just yell at the old guys. I like to start with 'WHAT THE FUCK IS THE MATTER WITH YOU?!?! IS THIS YOUR GENIUS PLAN FOR GETTING THROUGH LIFE?!?!' and just see where it takes me.
posted by um at 6:16 AM on August 26, 2016 [23 favorites]


I like the occasional report from the field. Hillary actually cited a 'report from the field' in her speech yesterday, with those chanting kids. I think it helps remind us that we're surrounded by people with some scary things going through their heads. On a positive note, talking to them and sharing with them can result in positive change.
posted by cashman at 6:19 AM on August 26, 2016 [16 favorites]


Rorgy: phew thanks. Sounds like I got most of that albeit abbreviated since the folks I was learning from hadn't really figured it out. Loading lists hasn't been that useful since the main day where that mattered (most folks have been using the call tool on laptops) everything was in chaos and even if I loaded a list finding where a particular sheet started was hopeless. Also agreed about the UI changing. I start to see the logic of it and then I can't find things. I get that they probably think they are improving it (maybe they are) but since I always have a gap of a few days between volunteer days, I spend the first 10 minutes re-orienting.
posted by R343L at 6:38 AM on August 26, 2016


Bad news guys I'm at a bagel joint outside of Boston

THAT IS BAD NEWS WHY NOT DUNKIN' DONUTS?
posted by kirkaracha at 6:47 AM on August 26, 2016 [16 favorites]


Artw: "Then they wait for him to be president... One terms... Two terms... And then, THEY STRIKE!"

There was an old Dave Barry bit about a guy who knew who wanted to break it off with his girlfriend, but could never find the exact right time. So things keep going along and going along and it ends with something like, "And there she is, standing at the altar, thinking this is the happiest day of his life, and he's thinking, "Now? No, better wait until after they cut the cake." "
posted by Chrysostom at 6:49 AM on August 26, 2016 [8 favorites]


Many people are saying Dr. Drew doesn't have the stamina to keep doing his show on CNN. SAD!
posted by peeedro at 6:50 AM on August 26, 2016 [31 favorites]


That is *awesome* news Peedro. That dude is a disgrace to his profession and an addiction profiteer.
posted by spitbull at 6:54 AM on August 26, 2016 [8 favorites]


This is a troubling development.
“When I agreed to be Hillary’s VP, I was ready for some sleepless nights,” said Tim Kaine in an official statement dictated to a nearby cashier at Cinnabon. “And now I am ready for a new Jeep Wrangler.”


The thing is, I can absolutely see Tim Kaine participating in a hands on a hardbody contest. Because obviously what he would do is get to know the other contestants, identify the one who had the most urgent need for a new vehicle, and would somehow socially engineer the situation so that he and that person were the final two contenders... and then whoopsie-doodle, Tim Kaine lets his hand slip and the person who needs it the most gets to win.

Catholic Nice Dad 2016!
posted by palomar at 6:54 AM on August 26, 2016 [37 favorites]



That dude is a disgrace to his profession and an addiction profiteer.

let's just put it this way, back when he was on LoveLine with Adam Carolla, he was the one with the empathy problem
posted by murphy slaw at 7:02 AM on August 26, 2016 [18 favorites]




Maybe just yell at the old guys. I like to start with 'WHAT THE FUCK IS THE MATTER WITH YOU?!?! IS THIS YOUR GENIUS PLAN FOR GETTING THROUGH LIFE?!?!' and just see where it takes me.

Years of talking to my Trump–loving grandpa has taught me that the absolute most fun way to discuss politics with people whose reasoning process involves (a) anger and (b) not much reasoning is:

Smile and nod and agree with whatever words come out of their mouth, but make sure that the words that come out of yours are what you think about things, and have nothing to do with the perspectives they just offered. If they say, "I think that Hillary Clinton is the pillow goddess and has no place leading a nation of vigorous youths!", you go, "Yeah! She has such fantastic plans for providing healthcare. I really appreciate that we'll have a president who'll give small business owners the opportunities they deserve!"

"What are you, NUTS?" they will reply. "Hillary Clinton will murder us all with her death panels, and she asphyxiates small businesses with her +5 enchanted belt!"

"I KNOW!" you must say back, eyes aglow. "And it's amazing how her foreign policy experience has prepared her to make difficult decisions abroad while maintaining the integrity of America at home!"

No matter what they do, you must act like they agreed with you. Don't give off the impression that you even notice the contradictions between what they say and you say; to you, everything they say make you see them more and more like a long–lost friend, an oasis of reason in a desert of mayhem. For as long as they go on, grow increasingly grateful that you've finally found them to talk things over with, and that you've met somebody who sees things for what they really are. It's always nice to meet a new Hillary supporter, isn't it?

There are ways of playing this milder or more aggressive; modify your approach to suit your audience. To the best of my knowledge, there is no effective counter to this, not so long as you keep your voice perky and your face cheerful. The only way my grandfather, a learned and formidable man, has learned to play along is to feign a similar cheeriness, and a similar misinterpretation of my own words. But, seeing as he wasn't the one who started the game, he tends to get frustrated and go back to Soviet death squads. Getting angry doesn't help. Dropping the subject does, but then you've won, hooray!

An advanced tactic here is, if you're given the "young impertinent whelp" misdirect, to cheerfully mention that proportionally–speaking you've given up less of your remaining lifespan to this tomfoolery than your partner has. Very disrespectful if you're actually talking to your grandfather or a loved one; I don't recommend it. I once landed this quip on a friend's father–in–law, though, and my friend's actual dad wrote me to say bravo and recommend me an interview with Frank Lloyd Wright. I'd call this tactic is highly recommended if you don't mind burning bridges and/or are an enthusiast of Modernist architecture.

None of this will foster useful, constructive discussion, so please do avoid it with people you care about. For those people, I advise thoughtful discussion, active listening, and, if they decide intellectual debate consists of 8,000 words of navelgazing fluffery, insulting them with a pithy two sentences and seeing how many "fuck you" essays you can get them to write before they realize what you're up to. (answer: they will never realize, this reminds me, I have a nine-year-old email thread I need to respond to, brb)
posted by rorgy at 7:06 AM on August 26, 2016 [64 favorites]


I like the occasional report from the field. Hillary actually cited a 'report from the field' in her speech yesterday, with those chanting kids. I think it helps remind us that we're surrounded by people with some scary things going through their heads. On a positive note, talking to them and sharing with them can result in positive change.

There is an imbalance here, because I've noted that most "reports from the field" are from white people. There are PoC posters here who do not need the "reminders" because it's in our face.

I don't know why that this needs to keep being said but it does.
posted by zutalors! at 7:14 AM on August 26, 2016 [15 favorites]




Another great ad from Clinton.

"What the hell do you have to lose? Everything."
posted by chris24 at 7:21 AM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


Rorgy: gas lighting for good

I like it
posted by schadenfrau at 7:22 AM on August 26, 2016 [7 favorites]


I appreciate the field reports, but I also appreciate that not everyone wants to see them. Maybe we could keep them to the positive or particularly surprising. (As much as I enjoy a sighting of Boston Herald comments sections in a Dunks.)
posted by Countess Elena at 7:24 AM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


There is an imbalance here, because I've noted that most "reports from the field" are from white people. There are PoC posters here who do not need the "reminders" because it's in our face.

I don't know why that this needs to keep being said but it does.


Uhhhhh....
posted by cashman at 7:26 AM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Dem Senator: In Secret, My Republican Colleagues Support Clinton

"Island senator recalled a group of Republican senators expressing praise for Clinton during a briefing on a “highly classified matter.”

“Two of them, her very prominent antagonists in this election, and one looked over at the other and said ‘Boy, she’s good.’ The other one leaned back and said, ‘Yeah, she’s really good,’" Whitehouse said. "And that’s the Hillary that they know. Not the talking points Hillary or the caricature, but the real person."
posted by schadenfrau at 7:27 AM on August 26, 2016 [27 favorites]


Uhhhhh....

Yes?
posted by zutalors! at 7:28 AM on August 26, 2016


Zutalors: could you say more about what it is that bothers you about it? Trying to understand not be defensive -- is it just that you are fully aware these types of racist folks exist and hearing quotes is painful and not at all edifying? Or is it partially the way they're breathlessly posted as if we as white people are breaking new ground of investigative journalism? Or something else I'm missing? Again, you being upset by it for any reason is valid, and enough for me to cut it out.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:29 AM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yes?

Uhhh..I guess I don't need the reminder that there are PoC posters here?
posted by cashman at 7:31 AM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


On senators and Clinton: had dinner with a reporter friend of mine who covers congress. They said every single senator they reported on has been saying for years how much they respect HRC as a colleague.

Prediction: If she gets elected she going to get so much like, governing done.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:32 AM on August 26, 2016 [19 favorites]


Jeet Heer: In Her Alt-Right Speech, Hillary Gave the GOP a Mafia Kiss

"The praise she doled out to Republican politicians may seem magnanimous, but it was also designed to make their lives a hell, since it drives a wedge between Trump’s white nationalist base and suburban college-educated Republicans. It might look like Clinton is kissing the Republican leadership, but as she heads towards victory in the fall she’s also giving them the kiss of death."
posted by chris24 at 7:33 AM on August 26, 2016 [30 favorites]


Reporter friend also said Kushner is running Trumps campaign and always has been 💅
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:34 AM on August 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


Prediction: If she gets elected she going to get so much like, governing done.

I can only hope so. I can only imagine the amount of sexist nonsense we'll all have to wade through for quite some time though. But you would think that there just can't be 4 more years of obstructionist politics if she does get elected.
posted by cashman at 7:35 AM on August 26, 2016


Hey Potomac Avenue, thanks for the question. Mostly in these threads there is an air of "white people talking amongst each other" and I've noticed that it's mostly white people who post "here's some racist stuff I heard/read" in a fairly flippant way.

I shared a personal story about my mother not wanting to be associated as "Muslim" (she is not, but we are Indian American, which is good enough for some people) and scary questions people have asked her about "are you Muslim" etc and someone just immediately linked to an anti Hindu candidate like "oh that won't save you." That person apologized and admitted they hadn't been thoughtful in their linking.

I feel like "Reports from the field" are by white people for the benefit of white people to "remind" them of the "Real racists" and there's an effect of speaking for PoC rather than with them.

I understand people might not feel that that's what they're doing, but there's also been pushback in recent years about comments like "they want to bomb all the brown people" etc. Those types of comments are usually by white people and they don't recognize themselves in what they're saying.

Others of us do, and that's why "hey guys this is crazy but I heard some racists say..." isn't cool, when some of us have had our mothers questioned about their religion to make sure they have the "right one."
posted by zutalors! at 7:36 AM on August 26, 2016 [34 favorites]


More from TNR: Trump hiring Steve Bannon might go down as the worst campaign hire of all time.

What a lovely thing to hear.
posted by rorgy at 7:36 AM on August 26, 2016 [27 favorites]



Yes?

Uhhh..I guess I don't need the reminder that there are PoC posters here?


Totally missing the point, please see my response to Potomac Avenue.
posted by zutalors! at 7:38 AM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


I can only hope so. I can only imagine the amount of sexist nonsense we'll all have to wade through for quite some time though. But you would think that there just can't be 4 more years of obstructionist politics if she does get elected.
posted by cashman at 7:35 AM on August 26 [+] [!]


This is the part that makes me smile like a cat, though. HRC is the world judo champion at dealing with sexism and obstructionism.

I kind of can't wait.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:38 AM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Republican nominee repeatedly claimed that Clinton is a “bigot” toward African Americans

Most blatant example of Trump's Mirror we've seen to date (and boy, that's saying a lot . . . ).

Hillary: Trump and his campaign are taking hate groups mainstream. [Proceeds to list eleven billionty actual examples, each of which is very well documented and also completely off the charts on the WTF?! Scale.]

Trump: No, YOU'RE a racist. Neener - neener - neener.

Literally, this is all the guy's got. Third Grade retorts.
posted by flug at 7:38 AM on August 26, 2016 [13 favorites]


petebest: Socioliguistic theory aside, (Neeeeerrrrrrrrrds!), I think the key takeaway- other than framing- was the Strict Father versus Nuturing Parent models. It's not too deep but I can't recall an election where it's been more front-and-center.

Hillary the Listener has been a plank of this campaign for a while, which works quite well when you have Donnie the Over-Talker, Donny the Fear-Monger who talks about white people's problems as "ours" and other people's problems as "theirs," even when appearing to support "them."

It's making the concern for others into a strength instead of a "womanly, maternal weakness" as compared to the strength of Man the Defender. It allows others to heap praise on Hillary, because you can't promote yourself as a listener by talking about yourself.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:42 AM on August 26, 2016 [12 favorites]


Yes?

Uhhh..I guess I don't need the reminder that there are PoC posters here?

Totally missing the point, please see my response to Potomac Avenue.


I think you're missing the point, but that's okay. You don't like to see the reports from the field. I do like to see the occasional (as I said in my original comment) report from the field, a la Hillary's speech from yesterday.

When Hillary talked about those kids chanting, it was chilling. It's not entirely new of course. Back when I was in high school there were white kids at a sporting event whose team was clearly on the losing end of the scoreboard with time running out. It was clear their team would lose. They started chanting "that's alright! that's okay! you'll come work for us some day!"

I get that some folks don't want to continually face those situations and be reminded of just how terrible America can be at times. But like with some of the recent videos of black men being shot to death by police officers, sometimes the truth needs to be seen so that a true picture of America emerges.

I think we can agree if all the thread became was reports from the field, it would be problematic, tiring, and crazy-making. But the occasional report is okay, in my opinion. Especially when there is often actual news going on and people are joking about this thing or that to pass the time til we can vote and end this nightmare possibility of Trump being our president.
posted by cashman at 7:46 AM on August 26, 2016 [18 favorites]


Agreed, flt. And That is *awesome* news Peedro. because the same article says Nancy Grace got canceled too.

Friggin' sweet.
posted by petebest at 7:49 AM on August 26, 2016 [11 favorites]


the same article says Nancy Grace got canceled too.

2016, you may be okay after all. Just get rid of this Trump fella and we'll talk.
posted by cashman at 7:50 AM on August 26, 2016 [13 favorites]


As Trump continues his manic tweeting to minorities, Montel Williams has some things to say:

'A Racist Is as a Racist Does'

"“This false invitation for African-American representation in the Trump campaign has been equal to the false invitation for African-American participation, minority participation, in the Republican Party for the last 20 years,” explained Williams.

When asked why he believes Trump's direct appeal to the African-American community is false, Williams replied, “Are you kidding me? Seriously, do you really believe that?”

He continued: “It’s like, David Duke right now saying, ‘Hey, I want to get these black people, come on in my house. Forget everything I’ve said in the past.’"
posted by chris24 at 7:51 AM on August 26, 2016 [14 favorites]


I think if "here's some racist stuff I heard" is accompanied with context, like rorgy talking with his Trump grandfather and how he pushes back, that's one thing, but to say "hey I heard some racist stuff guys" and then to insist that we NEED to hear this ignores people of color who hear it all the time.

It's not like, "my preference is to shut my ears and not hear racism". I hear it ALL THE TIME. If you're just going to toss in "oh I heard people saying some stuff about brown people here are bullet points" you're being insensitive and ignoring PoC experiences.
posted by zutalors! at 7:51 AM on August 26, 2016 [14 favorites]


The silence of the GOP on Clinton's speech may be good strategy:
The mainstream news guys are sitting there at their email boxes, waiting, waiting, for statements, so they can write a piece on it. Benjy Sarlin mentioned it on Twitter, which you probably saw. [JF: I have now] And a couple of other journos, agreed.

But without some outraged statement from Ryan, Cruz, anybody, the mainstream journos have nothing to write about, there is no news cycle, no panels, no screaming headlines, no multi-news cycle. Just a Wow! Clinton gave a rough speech!” End of story. And that’s the strategy. Bury this story. And it’s working.

That’s how the GOP handles this kind of story. And it works just fine, every time. The mainstream journos can't find a both-sides hook, and they are nervous about this alt-right stuff anyway, so the story dies. Journos fear the brutality of GOP pushback. So it goes. Every. Time.
posted by maudlin at 7:53 AM on August 26, 2016 [34 favorites]


This is cracking me up a little.
posted by rorgy at 7:54 AM on August 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


I understand not wanting to hear about it on top of the misery of experiencing it. I certainly understand and agree with the mod standpoint of we really don't need to hear these specific detailed accounts of ugly racist words. I also am not sure how we thread the needle of that with the fact that there's clearly a huge number of people who don't get/understand the prevalence and distribution of these pockets (are they even pockets when they're this big? Knapsacks?) of awful.

Even here on Metafilter, where I think we're pretty well all in agreement that hey, racism isn't over, k? we still see a tremendous number of comments in these threads that hand wave this stuff off as being deep-red state stuff and view the cities as these enlightened islands of better. The fact of this particular report from P.A. being in the middle of Boston MA and conducted in this very open and no-shame way strikes me as noteworthy.
posted by phearlez at 7:57 AM on August 26, 2016 [17 favorites]


I nearly trumped in my pants when I read this tweet

heh.
posted by petebest at 7:58 AM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


> And anyway, I read Women, Fire and Dangerous Things and thought: this is a book about language by someone who has never read any philosophy of language.

What spitbull said, plus why would anyone think philosophy of language is more important than actual linguistics? Linguists study language; philosophers have Deep Thoughts about it, often without bothering to find out what linguists have learned. I'm still scarred from having to read Wittgenstein's allegedly brilliant thoughts on the topic years ago.
posted by languagehat at 7:58 AM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


Thanks for the response zutalors, makes a lot of sense why it would seem unhelpful particularly if it's done flippantly like I did it, sorry again.

Maybe what I should have done was put more thought into what I was witnessing and why my reaction to it is so strong. Rather than reporting as if it's news of the weird that I'm not involved in.

As you said POC are much more aware of how prevalent this kind of crap is-- it's really shocking to me to hear in public out loud as diverse families walk by. I have no idea how to react? Do I say "hey you are racist please shut up thanks!" Do I tell the store manager that someone is being racist on their property? Tattling on them to my online friends feels like helping somehow, but now I see its definitely not helping some people.

It's confusing because it's so close to the rhetoric of normal republicanism but also completely different. It's one thing to say "Obamas the worst he's ruining America with taxes and welfare and taking our guns" even though that is all motivated by racism, it's totally different to come right out and talk about "white genocide" at 9am on a school day. One is annoying the other is like brandishing a gun.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:59 AM on August 26, 2016 [12 favorites]


The news that Steve Bannon is fraudulently registered to vote in a swing state at his ex-wife's former address (the ex-wife he abused or a different one!?!) that is soon to be demolished (it's ticking ALL the fraud boxes!) is enveloping me like a soft, warm hug. My face hurts from smiling.
posted by acidic at 8:02 AM on August 26, 2016 [41 favorites]


I see the point of those remarks that the current Republican strategy of utter silence about Hillary's alt-right speech might be good technique, but what's stopping the media–at least that portion of it that doesn't fetishize "fair and balanced"–from first reporting that [insert prominent Republican here] said "no comment," then commenting that wasn't this weird, wouldn't for instance Obama make dismissive comments if there was such an obvious attack on Hillary and a reporter asked him, a prominent Democrat, to comment?


look ma run-on sentence
posted by seyirci at 8:02 AM on August 26, 2016


It's not like, "my preference is to shut my ears and not hear racism". I hear it ALL THE TIME. If you're just going to toss in "oh I heard people saying some stuff about brown people here are bullet points" you're being insensitive and ignoring PoC experiences.

Heh. I guess what I'm saying is some of those PoC might want to hear those experiences. Especially if it's people saying things in a public area. I was - -

The fact of this particular report from P.A. being in the middle of Boston MA and conducted in this very open and no-shame way strikes me as noteworthy.

Exactly. That's what I was about to try to relate.

Tattling on them to my online friends feels like helping somehow

It helped me. But I also understand when some people get fatigued by it at times. I think in the wake of Hillary's speech, it's especially important to face this situation, if possible. Notably, I also love the stories of when people go out of their way to say things like "we aren't all like that", and actively reject racism.
posted by cashman at 8:03 AM on August 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


Anyone know what this is about: @RealDonaldTrump: Wonderful @pastormarkburns was attacked viciously and unfairly on @MSNBC by crazy @morningmika on low ratings @Morning_Joe. Apologize!

Apologize! is cracking me up.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:05 AM on August 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


Eh. If he was once legitimately registered there, I don't think it counts as fraud unless he tries to vote under that registration. How many people actually deregister when they leave a state, rather than just registering in a new one? I know I didn't, the one time I moved states.
posted by tavella at 8:07 AM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Like Psycho Realm says though cashman "I don't really wanna kill nobody / inside the Culver City police lobby"
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:07 AM on August 26, 2016


Eh. If he was once legitimately registered there, I don't think it counts as fraud unless he tries to vote under that registration

He never lived there.

"Bannon, 62, formerly rented the house for use by his ex-wife, Diane Clohesy, but did not live there himself."
posted by chris24 at 8:10 AM on August 26, 2016 [14 favorites]


(I do know that Boston has a reputation for being a really racist place, but it still was a good report in my opinion.)
posted by cashman at 8:12 AM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Eh. If he was once legitimately registered there, I don't think it counts as fraud unless he tries to vote under that registration. How many people actually deregister when they leave a state, rather than just registering in a new one? I know I didn't, the one time I moved states.

According to what I've read, he actively changed his registration to this address last year when she moved in, and had previously been registered at her 2013-2015 Miami address (where he also did not live). They've been divorced 7 years, so that's at least 2 instances of actively registering to vote with an address/state? where he did not reside and never planned to reside.

Breitbart is in DC (maybe also LA?), where he has a townhouse, described in this delicious paragraph:

Ordinarily, Bannon’s townhouse is crypt-quiet and feels like a museum, as it’s faithfully decorated down to its embroidered silk curtains and painted murals in authentic Lincoln-era detail. When I first stopped by in January, about the only sign that I hadn’t teleported back to the 1860s was a picture on the mantle of a smiling woman on a throne with a machine gun in her lap (it was Bannon’s daughter Maureen, a West Point grad and lieutenant in the 101st Airborne Division; the throne belonged to Saddam Hussein—or once did). Until Bannon showed up, the only sounds I heard were faint noises from the basement, which might have been the young women he calls the Valkyries, after the war goddesses of Norse mythology who decided soldiers’ fates in battle. More on them later.
posted by acidic at 8:16 AM on August 26, 2016 [17 favorites]


As you said POC are much more aware of how prevalent this kind of crap is

What's funny is that my impression is that I don't hear most of the worst stuff, because those most racists are too cowardly to out themselves as racists if POC are in earshot. What I hear/see is usually on the plausible deniability/micro-aggression side of the line.

I appreciated the field report, for what it's worth. I feel like the comment wouldn't have been as valuable if it had been "These two guys next to me are saying all number of vile racist things [end of message]" because "vile racist things" is different for different people.

But it does suck to see it sometimes. If this were 1998, I'd maybe recommend rot13ing the actual words. Maybe overuse of the small tag so folks need to do some work if they want to read what's been said?
posted by sparklemotion at 8:19 AM on August 26, 2016 [17 favorites]


maudlin: The silence of the GOP on Clinton's speech may be good strategy

They're pulling from Donny's playbook.

Reporter: Did you see or hear HRC's speech in Reno?
GOP stooge: No, I must have missed it.
Reporter: Did you hear that she called Donnie out for his racist re-tweets, supporters and actions?
GOP stooge: Nope, I'll have to review that.
Reporter: OK, let me read something from her speech. [Reads clearly damning statement.] Is this something you support? Can you still say you stand behind Donnie?
GOP stooge: I'll have to hear that in context.

[Scene]

The reporter's best response: GOP silent on HRC's comments regarding Trump's racist remarks and staff. But that's not exciting, so instead they'll focus on a non-story about Hillary's health or her use of pillows.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:19 AM on August 26, 2016 [8 favorites]


(The crazy thing is there is also a ton of smug anti-South/Midwest snobbery in Boston. Lots of coworkers of mine love to make jokes about how racist and stupid various places they have never been are, while meanwhile they are blithely living in expensive neighborhoods created by anti-busing bigotry less than a generation ago. Talking shit about Southern cities that are often way more integrated than Boston while ignoring these asshole baby boomers blatant xenophobia and prejudice -- very infuriating. Gotta start coming up with better response to this stuff, it is just not done where I come from.)
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:22 AM on August 26, 2016 [33 favorites]


Breitbart is in DC (maybe also LA?), where he has a townhouse

I wonder if DC or CA would want to look into any income taxes he is obviously avoiding.
posted by peeedro at 8:25 AM on August 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


And filthy light thief, Paul Ryan did that as well, with Trump and the 2nd amendment comments.

On another note, since Trump and company use that "prebut" thing, and Hillary and the campaign know this, why announce the topic of the speech ahead of time? Because it allows for those ridiculous "Clinton and Trump trade attacks on racism" headlines and screen overlays. I mean I'm sure we all see right through it and hope that others do, and Trump could still just call her names afterward instead of in advance of, but it would make it even more obvious he was doing the "I know you are but what am I" nonsense that he does.
posted by cashman at 8:26 AM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Just heard Tamron Hall, one of MSNBC's brighter lights, interviewing a republican blabbermouth -- albeit not a trump surrogate -- interrupt the guy mid-Clinton-bashing to "answer [her] question without pivoting to your Hillary Clinton talking points."

That simple. And it worked to shame him for a moment into doing so before going back to his anti-Hillary riff.

That simple: tell them you're on to them and don't accept the pivots and Gish gallop bullshit. And keep stopping them until they answer the question you asked.

Anderson Cooper, Rachel Maddow, Chuck Todd and company need to study Joy Reid and Tamron Hall and Briana Keillar, all of whom are showing how journalistic interviewing ought to be done with shameless shills and liars.
posted by spitbull at 8:27 AM on August 26, 2016 [56 favorites]


Spitbull, Stephanie Reuhl did almost the exact same thing at 9am. Maybe (oh please please please) they got talking points along the lines of "stop taking shit."
posted by schadenfrau at 8:30 AM on August 26, 2016 [11 favorites]


Yeah, the older white population of Boston and environs is crazy racist. I was shocked by its openness when I lived there. These are the descendants of Irish, Italian and other Southern Europeans, and when their ancestors came to this country their fitness to reproduce was thoroughly debated. But racial superiority is a hell of a drug, and their parents did not care to tell them they were anything but white.

Leftist dudes upon the twitters are already saying Hillary didn't go hard enough against the Republicans, she forgave them for the Southern strategy and for all the sins since then, she's a secret conservative and she'll have one term and lose to Tom Cotton. What must it be like to be a prophetic political genius and be right about every damn thing all of the time.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:30 AM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]




Paul LePage: son-of-a-bitch, socialist cocksucker

um ok but leave my mom out of it next time
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:38 AM on August 26, 2016 [12 favorites]


I definitely subscribe to the analysis that she played it perfectly. Making it all about the REPUBLICAN PARTY being racist means you can dismiss it as partisan stuff.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:38 AM on August 26, 2016 [11 favorites]


Until Bannon showed up, the only sounds I heard were faint noises from the basement, which might have been the young women he calls the Valkyries, after the war goddesses of Norse mythology who decided soldiers’ fates in battle. More on them later.

I'm sorry, what?
posted by Sophie1 at 8:38 AM on August 26, 2016 [16 favorites]


The refusal to comment ploy does indeed work very well - Apple has used this for decades to great effect, and effectively controls media coverage of substantive issues.

But you have to be Apple to make it work. Which means you have to think Trump is the iPhone of presidential candidates.
posted by Devonian at 8:40 AM on August 26, 2016


But it does suck to see it sometimes. If this were 1998, I'd maybe recommend rot13ing the actual words. Maybe overuse of the small tag so folks need to do some work if they want to read what's been said?

I like this as a solution. Make the terrible things small enough that people need to work to see it and label it so people can zoom in and read if they want or carry on without having to carry that particular piece of vitriol with them.

These threads have been helpful for me as a check on my sanity so it's helpful for me to see that other people are hearing these things being said (I'm not the only one hearing them!) and my perception isn't off when I hear that kind of stuff and feel outraged.

And I think it's helpful for the people who hear them to have someplace they can vent about it to an empathetic audience and for some, this might be the only empathetic audience they have.

I even appreciate the people who voice their concerns with it. I get really happy and hopeful every time I see mefites work to a reasonable compromise.

My perception of conservatives is their message is, "MY RIGHTS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT RIGHTS!"

While liberals/progressives/members of civilization say, "THIS THING IS IMPORTANT TO ME BUT YOUR RIGHTS ARE IMPORTANT SO WE MUST FIND A SOLUTION THAT WORKS FOR EVERYONE!"

These minor derails (and I'm not totally convinced that it IS a derail) reinforce that perception.
posted by VTX at 8:40 AM on August 26, 2016 [12 favorites]


Maine Governor Uses Homophobic Slur While Challenging Lawmaker To Prove He’s A Racist

But for him, it was a Tuesday.
...
Paul LePage is America's craziest governor. Which is saying something, in a nation that includes Governors Rick Scott (FL), Scott Walker (WI), Greg Abbott (TX), Rick Snyder (MI) and John Kasich (OH).
posted by zarq at 8:41 AM on August 26, 2016 [7 favorites]


Ann Coulter: Donald Trump Wasn't Mocking Reporter's Disability; He Was Imitating a 'Standard Retard.' Clearly she hasn't seen Tropic Thunder.

It's hard, in the constant stream of crazy this election has been, to take some of these moments and just stop and sit with them. But that excerpt from Coulter's book was a moment that made me do that. And here was my internal conversation:

Me One: how does anyone even write a phrase like that anymore? Past that, how does an editor and a publisher let it stand?
Me Two: well, I can two possible answers to that. Either they don't realize the problem, which is scary; or they completely get the problem and they are counting on the base lapping it up and the outrage over it driving sales, which is also scary. And disgusting.
Me One: I'm not sure which is more scary. Or disgusting.
Me Two: Another possibility is that the answer is both - the writer doesn't see anything wrong with the phrase, and the editor/publish saw the marketing potential.
Me One: I'm beyond offended and just into a space of just wtf.
Me Two: Consider this as well: the defense here of Trump is that he wasn't mocking a specific person, but mentally challenged people in general. As if that makes it ok.
Me One: Surely some of her readers and Trump supporters have family members who -
Me Two: Undoubtedly.
Me One: So how do they handle moments like this?
Me Two: .....
Me One: Maybe we should stop thinking about this?
Me Two: I'll get the vodka, shall I?
posted by nubs at 8:48 AM on August 26, 2016 [39 favorites]


Clinton should give the exact same speech every day at every campaign stop until Republicans and the press are forced to respond to it. One speech Republicans can say they missed while in recess, but not if she says it every day.
posted by JackFlash at 8:49 AM on August 26, 2016 [12 favorites]


(In the UK, the most celebrated example of a journalist not letting a politician off the hook is the famous Paxman v Howard exchange. The matter being discussed doesn't matter, but skip to 4 minutes to see Paxman push the siege engine up to the battlements.)
posted by Devonian at 8:51 AM on August 26, 2016 [17 favorites]


Chuck Todd's hot take this morning was that the GOP silence was a bad look for them, like they knew they couldn't rebut what Clinton was saying.
posted by prize bull octorok at 8:55 AM on August 26, 2016 [9 favorites]


I guess I have mixed feelings about the whole reporting of racist statements.

On the one hand, I have to agree with sparklemotion above, I think as a PoC I don't really hear much overt racist stuff. I'm trying to run through my mind of things I have heard - the worst things I can think of are both situations where I can understand where the other person is coming from: someone didn't wish me merry Christmas, when they wished every other customer in line. I was not happy, because though I am Indian, one whole side of my family is Christian, so I did actually celebrate Christmas growing up. But they didn't wish my (white) husband either, who looks Jewish, so I can understand them not wanting to offend people who don't celebrate - it's a fine line. Another situation was someone not giving me a Christmas card at work, when they gave one to other team members. Similar situation, though most people avoided the issue by handing out Happy Holidays cards. However, he does seem more religious than most.

Other than that, I haven't really experienced anything. I'm either extraordinarily lucky to be only surrounded by non-racists all the time or people just don't say bad stuff to my face. I do feel that the atmosphere in Boston is very different from that back in Ithaca - which was a very friendly, open place. But I don't know how much of that to attribute to big-city-ness vs. Ithaca being a tiny college town.

So for me, knowing this stuff is out there is useful knowledge, though I worry that it makes me overly cautious. I find that since this racism stuff has been thrown out in the open, I've been relying on my husband more for stuff that I would normally do myself (interactions with handymen, finding a plumber etc.) - which honestly is ridiculous because 1) I have never actually had a negative interaction with anyone like that - most people seem friendly and eager to chat 2) I generally come off better on the phone, as my husband has a strong Russian accent and is not as good at idiomatic English as I am. And I don't really want to be the sort of person who worries about this kind of stuff, but hey, my peace of mind is one casualty of this election, unfortunately.
posted by peacheater at 8:56 AM on August 26, 2016 [15 favorites]


Which is saying something, in a nation that includes Governors Rick Scott (FL), Scott Walker (WI), Greg Abbott (TX), Rick Snyder (MI) and John Kasich (OH).

Matt Bevin (KY) is doing his best to catch up.
posted by chaoticgood at 8:56 AM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


I've heard Larry King is American medias equivalent of Paxman in terms of tenacity, which is just sad.
posted by Artw at 8:59 AM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I strongly disagree with Kasich on many many issues. But he's not actually in the LePage category.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:03 AM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Please take those "should we mention racist stuff we hear?" comments to MetaTalk, it's about site policy not this thread.
posted by agregoli at 9:05 AM on August 26, 2016


Larry King took $200k from Putin Russia Today for a one-off interview with pro-Russian Ukrainian prime minister Mykola Azarov.

Even before that he had zero credibility as a hard interviewer. He was notoriously easy on the famous despite an insistent mode of asking inane questions.

Sad.
posted by spitbull at 9:05 AM on August 26, 2016


spitbull: ITYM "Sad!"
posted by seyirci at 9:08 AM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Although to be fair Larry King once asked Willie Nelson if he was high on pot during their interview. Willie's priceless response was "well Larry, I have a higher tolerance than most people."
posted by spitbull at 9:09 AM on August 26, 2016 [12 favorites]


According to what I've read, he actively changed his registration to this address last year when she moved in, and had previously been registered at her 2013-2015 Miami address (where he also did not live). They've been divorced 7 years, so that's at least 2 instances of actively registering to vote with an address/state? where he did not reside and never planned to reside.

When you talk about voter stuff it's worth remembering that it can be complicated because of federal and state differences. Mostly this stuff depends on the state's rules. Florida gets to decide what Florida's rules are for residency for purposes of voting, and they could in theory (subject to their own state constitution's content) decide that it's enough for someone to be a resident of the state at that address on the first monday of November, regardless of where they reside the other 364.25 days of the year.

Case in point on residency for homestead exemption of real estate taxes. When it was last an issue I had to examine in Florida about ten years ago, the rule was that your residency for this purpose was dependent on where you lived on Jan 1 of that year. You might own 9 houses in Florida and live in house A for 10 months out of the year, then spend 1 week in each of the others. But if house D was where you went to bed on New Year's Eve (subject to various other paperwork of course; I am shorthanding) that's the only one you could claim this exemption on.

If I recall correctly this is a definition at least somewhat influenced by the arm-twisting of snowbirds who winter in Florida but that might be something my drunken subconscious made up.

Regardless, Florida gets to decide who they are going to let vote... subject to federal restrictions about disenfranchising people, of course. And just because they will let this douche vote and DC will as well doesn't mean he gets to vote in both places. Though some districts do have alternate ballots available for just federal races for certain uses; I recall having them to offer people in very narrow circumstances the last time I volunteered to be a poll worker for a presidential election, though I never issued one.

I think it's always worth remembering that the states don't have to involve their citizens in picking the president at all. They all do, and we would find it abhorrent to do otherwise, but the bare metal law of the land is such that they could just do it all in the legislature as far as the fed is concerned. So when it comes to how they decide to extend that choice to citizens they have a wide latitude, provided they stick within certain consistent strictures.

tl;dr: it's possible, if this gasbag doesn't vote anywhere other than Florida, that he could have a factually ridiculous registration address and it not be vote fraud if Florida law is structured in a certain way.
posted by phearlez at 9:09 AM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


Lol, the Trump campaign has hired Bill Stepien, fired by Christie for Bridgegate, as National Field Director.

The trial for Baroni and Kelly starts next month.

#workingthecones #hehiresthebestpeople
posted by chris24 at 9:11 AM on August 26, 2016 [13 favorites]


The RNC communications director is on MSNBC right now trying to defend Trump, so....the establishment hasn't cut ties yet.

They can't yet. We're still behind them, trying to push the RNC to actually cut Trump ties, as in, declare him nil for "other reasons" and call a new candidate. They, in turn, are terrified of Trump-supporter rage affecting the downballot, so they don't want to do it. We need people from 1/3 of the states to start the process, and we have about 1/5 - but permission from Big RNC might push us there.
posted by corb at 9:16 AM on August 26, 2016 [29 favorites]


The thing that gets me about conversations like the Paxman v Howard one linked above is that it's SO EASY to honestly answer the question AND deliver your message.

Here is how I think that would go:

Paxman: "Did you threaten to overrule him?"

Howard: "Yes I did. I shouldn't have because I didn't have the authority to do so. It was an empty threat and I should have known better. But what I DID have the authority, the right, and the OBLIGATION to do was to make my opinion heard and I did so in very strong language...yadda yadda, spin, spin, spin."

Both parts of that statement are true but when you lie about the first, that lie, or at least your refusal to acknowledge the plain truth when it's shoved under your nose, that becomes the sole focus of the conversation. If instead, you just say, "Yeah I fucked up a little, my bad." And move on, you can refocus attention back on to your message.

Same thing happens when a person is called out for being racist. There are basically three ways to respond:

1. "You're right, I'm sorry, I'll do better."
2. "I'm sorry about that. I don't understand why that's racist. Help me understand?"
3. "That's not racist" (with an occasional bonus, "No YOU'RE racist!").

With the first, usually everyone moves on and everyone forgets about it ten minutes later. In the second, you demonstrate that you're not being racist on purpose and are making a good faith effort to improve and you might get to learn something new (or maybe it wasn't really racist but now you can have a conversation about it in good faith). In the third, you're almost certainly wrong and set yourself up for a combative argument that will end with the other person having less respect for you and makes it clear that you're not just someone who says racist things, but a racist.
posted by VTX at 9:18 AM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


declare him nil for "other reasons" and call a new candidate.

Corb, how does the fact that Monday it starts being too late to change the name on the ballot in some states affect the reality of them calling a new candidate. I mean I wish you the best of luck, but it's hard to see how it happens given that. Among other things.
posted by chris24 at 9:20 AM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Mika: 'I Can't Pretend To Cover' Donald Trump 'Fairly' | Morning Joe | MSNBC

"I think we've entered this black box phase, where we've crashed." -- Nicholle Wallace, former Comm. Director for GWB
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:20 AM on August 26, 2016 [11 favorites]


declare him nil for "other reasons" and call a new candidate

I think at this point you have to stick with the disease-ridden, flea-bitten, mangy and yes, racist, horse you rode in on.
posted by yhbc at 9:21 AM on August 26, 2016 [7 favorites]




(not you personally of course, corb, but the Republican party)
posted by yhbc at 9:23 AM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


(not you personally of course, corb, but the Republican party)

corb, of course, never got on the horse and has been trying to put it down since before the gates opened.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:27 AM on August 26, 2016 [33 favorites]


Lol, the Trump campaign has hired Bill Stepien, fired by Christie for Bridgegate, as National Field Director.

I mean of course Trump is going to favor people who know how to take the blame when he does his hiring.
posted by ckape at 9:28 AM on August 26, 2016 [7 favorites]


"I think we've entered this black box phase, where we've crashed." -- Nicholle Wallace, former Comm. Director for GWB

Why don't they build a whole campaign out of the same stuff they use for the black box?
posted by thelonius at 9:28 AM on August 26, 2016 [31 favorites]




Please take those "should we mention racist stuff we hear?" comments to MetaTalk, it's about site policy not this thread.


I disagree, as has been said before, racism is an important part of this election, especially how Trump's message has inspired people to be more confident in their racism.
posted by zutalors! at 9:34 AM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


I disagree, as has been said before, racism is an important part of this election,

But talking about how much reporting of racism is appropriate for this thread is not.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:38 AM on August 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


Agree with zutalora (about a lot of other stuff too).


The election is like a metatalk thread for American society already.
posted by spitbull at 9:40 AM on August 26, 2016 [17 favorites]


In addition to the lack of an intersectional analysis or any substantial discussion of race, two paragraphs from the Lakoff article Understanding Trump really steamed me.

First we have:
But Donald Trump is not in a business that makes products abroad to import here and mark up at a profit. As a developer, he builds hotels, casinos, office buildings, golf courses. He may build them abroad with cheap labor but he doesn’t import them. Moreover, he recognizes that most small business owners in America are more like him — American businesses like dry cleaners, pizzerias, diners, plumbers, hardware stores, gardeners, contractors, car washers, and professionals like architects, lawyers, doctors, and nurses. High tariffs don’t look like a problem.
The Republican candidate is no longer a property developer and he does in fact put his name on consumer goods that are manufactured abroad and sold in the us.

Thus, while Lakoff exhorts us to seize the framing, he is not apparently aware enough of the real(i)ty of the Trump organization to describe what he actually does now--i.e., licence his name for use on properties, goods, and services.

Second, we have Lakoff dropping verbiage suspiciously similar to the 'all lives matter' garbage:
Give up identity politics. No more women’s issues, black issues, Latino issues. Their issues are all real, and need public discussion. But they all fall under freedom issues, human issues. And address poor whites! Appalachian and Rust Belt whites deserve your attention as much as anyone else. Don’t surrender their fate to Trump, who will just increase their suffering.
While this advice might maybe kinda be valid in the abstract, it strikes me as blundering into a conversation without understanding the context of why these movements have arisen and "colorblind" types of attitudes can perpetuate personal and systemic oppression. Each group has different needs and has been oppressed in different ways that need specific solutions. The people most qualified to advocate for solutions that will best serve the affected communities are guess who! The people within those communities! Shocker, right? Groups have been and will continue to form around these identities so long as people are marginalized.

Sometimes the desires and needs of oppressed groups may conflict, so working to form a broader identity makes sense (human, "American", and so forth), so we can disagree productively and solve problems. However, at least in my own little world, identities are "both...and" phenomena. I can be trans AND anti-racist AND a recovering racist AND a Democrat AND a progressive AND a US citizen.

I'm not giving up politics that advocates for specific sorts of oppressed people; I want to be part of a movement that recognizes the reality of how identity can shape politics and how people's multiple identities can lead to intersectional oppression. I want such a movement to take our concerns seriously. Let's get the tide rising, but have the first lifted up be those most in need.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:40 AM on August 26, 2016 [23 favorites]


Corb, how does the fact that Monday it starts being too late to change the name on the ballot in some states affect the reality of them calling a new candidate. I mean I wish you the best of luck, but it's hard to see how it happens given that. Among other things.

Well, personally I give zero fucks. If I can knock this fucker off the ballot Oct. 31 while the GOP burns around me, I'm doing it. I think his very presence on the ballot is a permanent stain on our democracy.

But in reality - I think everyone sane in the Republican Party has accepted that the Republican Party took a very winnable race - one that an inoffensive bland Republican could possibly have won - and threw it away, set it on fire, and stomped on it. No replacement Republican, be he Zombie Reagan or the reincarnation of Lincoln, could possibly win the election this year. Everybody knows it. The chance of Trump winning the election is fucking tiny, but it's still bigger than if we replaced the candidate at the moment. Short of death - I think if Trump was assassinated the Republican Party would actually have it on lock, which is another thing I raise an eyebrow at Putin for.

So accepting that the Republican nominee this year WILL lose, (Barring horrific possibilities), it's all about how to protect the downballot. And if the Republican Party is to survive as a major national party, it HAS to repudiate Trump. It cannot survive as the party who went with Trump to the election box in November. Ideally, it needs to boot Trump and nominate someone like Jeb Bush, who has a Hispanic wife and kids, can make physical Hispanic humor, and loathes Trump with every fibre of his being.
posted by corb at 9:42 AM on August 26, 2016 [46 favorites]


Hillary Clinton: Donald Trump Has Shown Us Who He Is (Full Interview) | Morning Joe | MSNBC

Squint derails the middle ten minutes into Clinton Foundation stuff, but worth a listen
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:46 AM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


If Jeb is the path forward for the GOP, you may as well start writing the eulogies.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:47 AM on August 26, 2016 [8 favorites]


I've been sharing a song sung by a female artist on Facebook once a day everyday leading up to the election as my way of counting down to a (I hope) Clinton victory. I started the day after the DNC, which is when I became certain she'd win.

I just want to brag about something stupid here. See, I'm not allowed by work to make direct political statements on social media so I have to be careful about endorsing any candidates so I can't brag there.

A few days ago, it was 76 days until the election. I shared "Til There Was You" as sung by Shirley Jones. That song is from The Music Man, which features the song 76 Trombones. See, I made an oblique 76 reference and I've been stupidly pleased with myself.

This is like bragging that one of my shoes doesn't have a hole in it, I know.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:47 AM on August 26, 2016 [21 favorites]


Joy Reid has a piece up about Hillary Clinton's relationship with the press that I think is worth a read:
Can President Hillary Survive the Media’s Fake Scandals?
She directly addresses the AP story about the Clinton Foundation, and considers how the press will cover her once she is president.
posted by airish at 9:49 AM on August 26, 2016 [16 favorites]


But Donald Trump is not in a business that makes products abroad to import here and mark up at a profit. As a developer, he builds hotels, casinos, office buildings, golf courses. He may build them abroad with cheap labor but he doesn’t import them.
He literally imports cheap labor.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:49 AM on August 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


can make physical Hispanic humor

?

... this is John Ellis Bush we're talking about, right?
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 9:51 AM on August 26, 2016 [7 favorites]


Pie fights, stepping on rakes, stuff like that?
posted by thelonius at 9:52 AM on August 26, 2016 [10 favorites]


And if the Republican Party is to survive as a major national party, it HAS to repudiate Trump. It cannot survive as the party who went with Trump to the election box in November. Ideally, it needs to boot Trump and nominate someone like Jeb Bush

corb, I agree with you in large part - there's an existential threat to the party from Trump, and the reputation damage could (and should) last for years. But - and this is just me spitballing here - how deep does the damage go at this point? If the party does jettison Trump, what about Christie or McCain or McConnell or Rubio? I mean, if I'm Jeb Bush and this scenario comes to me - Trump gone, will you run as a dead duck candidate to try to limit the downballot damage - what do you say, knowing you're going to be working with these weasels and sacrificing your political career?
posted by nubs at 9:53 AM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


If Piñatas are involved, Jeb would fit right in.
posted by spitbull at 9:53 AM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


can make physical Hispanic humor

I'm picturing a tortilla ventriloquist routine.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:53 AM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Lol, the Trump campaign has hired Bill Stepien, fired by Christie for Bridgegate, as National Field Director.

Can they not get anyone other than shitbirds to work for them at this point?
posted by aught at 9:58 AM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


At the immigrant owned coffee and sandwich place right now.

The Moroccan barista watching French news. Showing clips of Hillary's speech and of trump and friends. I know enough French to understand that they are explaining the alt-right. No kids gloves here.

Other TV showing news in Arabic. The Eritrean dudes glued to the TV. Same thing as the French news, talking about alt-right and info wars and linking it to trump.


We were just talking about how of the 12 people here, only one can vote, the rest of us are non citizens and a felon.

Thee one potential voter, the property manager for the whole building, said he is not voting trump only because he likes the Asmarino breakfast bagel, and is worrierump wins we will have to eat white bread and mayonnaise for breakfast.
posted by Doroteo Arango II at 9:59 AM on August 26, 2016 [31 favorites]


corb: And if the Republican Party is to survive as a major national party, it HAS to repudiate Trump.

If you don't mind my asking and feel like responding, what would this look like? Would it involve repudiating people whose character judgment was so poor as to "support the nominee" (e.g., John McCain) or actually endorse him (Paul Ryan)?
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:59 AM on August 26, 2016


corb: So accepting that the Republican nominee this year WILL lose, (Barring horrific possibilities), it's all about how to protect the downballot. And if the Republican Party is to survive as a major national party, it HAS to repudiate Trump.

They have had ample opportunities to do so for months and didn't. It's not hard to understand why. For all the concerns the GOP leadership has (and hasn't) had about Trump, they couldn't stop his candidacy without going against the wishes of a strong plurality of Republican voters. Who overwhelmingly preferred him in the primaries over Ted Cruz and Jeb Bush.

The Republican base seems to like Donald Trump and generally agrees with what he says. There is a reason for this. Republicans have been using dogwhistles and racism and homophobia and other hatreds of minorities and poor people and women, to appeal to their base for decades. Republicans have been stoking meaningless fears about inequality and loss of privilege and gun ownership and also vilifying Democrats for decades as well. So when Republican voters who had been served a steady diet of that bullshit were given the opportunity, they didn't vote for a sane candidate like Jeb Bush. They preferred Ted Cruz but not by much.

The GOP did this to themselves. And now they're painted into a corner. Because a Republican party that fights against the will of their voters can't survive either. That would draw a strong line between the party elite and their base, and alienate everyone who voted for Trump.

Corb, you cannot undermine democracy in order to save democracy. That's not how it works. Democracies are built on public trusts. That their institutions and leaders will respect democratic principles. The moment the Republican party violates those trusts in such a monumental way with their voters, they are finished as a political force in this country.
posted by zarq at 10:00 AM on August 26, 2016 [47 favorites]


Is it too cynical to think that the GOP brain trust put up Trump as a means of moving the Overton window waaaaay over to where they want it to be, with the intent of sacrificing him while also riling up their base in order to get as many downticket votes as they can?

Like, "Once we get everyone fired up, they will vote for local candidates even though he won't win as president"?
posted by wenestvedt at 10:04 AM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Lol, the Trump campaign has hired Bill Stepien, fired by Christie for Bridgegate, as National Field Director.

Can they not get anyone other than shitbirds to work for them at this point?


They don't want to.
posted by Etrigan at 10:05 AM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


For all the concerns the GOP leadership has (and hasn't) had about Trump, they couldn't stop his candidacy without going against the wishes of a strong plurality of Republican voters. Who overwhelmingly preferred him in the primaries over Ted Cruz and Jeb Bush.

I don't know if a plurality is overwhelming. Trump still got a minority of the vote, even with most of the others dropping out. The problem was the dilution of the NotTrump vote.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:07 AM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


Thus, while Lakoff exhorts us to seize the framing, he is not apparently aware enough of the real(i)ty of the Trump organization to describe what he actually does now.

I see what you did there, Excommunicated Cardinal, and I approve.

posted by Atom Eyes at 10:11 AM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Dilution or not, the fundamental problem was that the GOP establishment refused to push back on Trump's bullshit from day one, because of the significant plurality of voters whose whole buy-in for the GOP has been that they're the party of racist/sexist/white supremacist dogwhistles. Literally the most the party leaders could muster was kinda maybe privately acknowledging that Trump is a racist disaster, but refusing to do fuck all about it publicly because they were deathly afraid it might mean the avowed racists that make up their base might not turn up to vote for them on election day.
posted by tocts at 10:12 AM on August 26, 2016 [10 favorites]


Reid has a piece up about Hillary Clinton's relationship with the press that I think is worth a read:
Can President Hillary Survive the Media’s Fake Scandals?
She directly addresses the AP story about the Clinton Foundation, and considers how the press will cover her once she is president.


Charles Pierce has posted three good pieces that serve as a rebuttal to that argument. Some of the key takeaways:

1. The AP story demonstrated the corrosive effects of the growth of access journalism. The fallout has had more effect on the reputation of the AP than on Clinton, with even other reporters who agree with the idea that the Foundation should be shuttered turning around and calling out the AP on their piss poor reporting.

2. This is in turn part of another symptom of the growth of access journalism - the press' growing entitlement over that access. As Pierce points out, while he thinks Clinton should do a press conference, he's not so arrogant to think he's entitled to one.

3. And the reality is that the press conference is a relic. It's a show nowadays, and the real news gets disseminated elsewhere.

4. Finally, the big one - Clinton's open hostility to the press didn't just come out of thin air. Given the way the press has treated her for the past 25 years, are you really surprised that she has open contempt for them?

Simply put, the press has gotten high on their own supply, and needs to realize that a lot of people look at the American politcal media with scorn. Trying to go after Clinton for bullshit has a very good chance of backfiring in their faces.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:14 AM on August 26, 2016 [16 favorites]


Can they not get anyone other than shitbirds to work for them at this point?

They don't want to.
That's oh so very, very true, but I think the "can't" is also very very true. That campaign is a Run, Don't Walk sign with neon flashing letters and "Awoooga! Awooooooga!!" type sirens for anyone decent, or who wants to keep having a political career, or preferably, both.
posted by seyirci at 10:15 AM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


Trying to go after Clinton for bullshit has a very good chance of backfiring in their faces.

How so? Who's going to hold them to account? The fact that some reporters are finally noticing the AP's sloppy both-sides-do-it-ism -- were they all asleep during the Ron Fournier years? -- does not in and of itself lead to any sort of tangible effect on the organization. By what mechanism will the AP actually suffer if they continue to publish these hit pieces?
posted by tonycpsu at 10:21 AM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]




Joey Michaels: "This is like bragging that one of my shoes doesn't have a hole in it, I know."

Worked for President Adlai Stevenson.

No, wait.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:28 AM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


Paul Wolfowitz- "I will have to vote for Clinton."
posted by chris24 at 10:34 AM on August 26, 2016 [10 favorites]


Business Insider, in a rare bit of original reporting, talks about how Donald Trump Broke The Conservative Media. Read it, it's worth your time.
posted by hippybear at 10:34 AM on August 26, 2016 [19 favorites]


So there's a Trump rally happening in Everett on Tuesday. I just moved about fifteen minutes away from the rally location... part of me is tempted to go see what the outside crowds are like, but the rest of me really just wants to barricade myself in my home.
posted by palomar at 10:35 AM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


Paul Wolfowitz- "I will have to vote for Clinton."

Jesus fuck.
posted by Artw at 10:38 AM on August 26, 2016 [26 favorites]


Another interesting twist on Bannon's residence (from that Guardian article):

Bannon ... is known to stay at the so-called “Breitbart embassy”, a luxurious $2.4m townhouse beside the supreme court in Washington DC, where his website’s staff work from basement offices. A Bloomberg profile of Bannon published last October, with which he cooperated, stated that Bannon “occupies” the townhouse and described it as being “his”.

But according to records at the DC office of tax and revenue, the Breitbart house is actually owned by Mostafa El-Gindy, an Egyptian businessman and former member of parliament."
posted by msalt at 10:38 AM on August 26, 2016 [17 favorites]


Sean Spicer On Hillary Clinton: ‘Desperate’ Move To Call Donald Trump Racist | MSNBC

I went to college with Sean Spicer. I had to cover his activities for the student paper when he was in student government, bloviating and grandstanding. He took great pleasure in positioning himself as the 'maverick' Republican on a small liberal arts campus. In fact, it was while I was working at the paper that the editor gifted him the moniker "Sean Sphincter" (an incident mentioned in this WaPo profile of him). Apparently it has stuck somewhat; I think he's still angry. Anyway, he's one of the most morally and ethically vacant people I have ever personally interacted with.
posted by Miko at 10:40 AM on August 26, 2016 [48 favorites]


Is there a word that conveys the utter ridiculousness of media personalities describing the actions of the person who is estimated between 75% and 95% to win as "desperate"?
posted by tocts at 10:48 AM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Is there a word that conveys the utter ridiculousness of media personalities describing the actions of the person who is estimated between 75% and 95% to win as "desperate"?

Yes. "Desperate"
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:49 AM on August 26, 2016 [39 favorites]



Paul Wolfowitz- "I will have to vote for Clinton."

Jesus fuck.
posted by Artw at 10:38 AM on August 26 [2 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]


QF fucking T
posted by Sophie1 at 10:50 AM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


That Business Insider article is gold.

“If you are a conservative talk show host, which I am, if you don't accept that it's likely Hillary Clinton has taken part in multiple murders, or that Barack Obama is a Muslim extremist sympathizer who was probably born outside this country — if you don't accept those two things it's almost as if you're a sellout. You're a RINO. You're somehow part of the liberal elite. It's nuts. It's making my own show very difficult to do. It's almost where to the point where we are not able to function.”

He continued: “It's almost like it's a disease, and it's taken over people. I don't remember this being the case four years ago. But something has happened. Something snapped. But now all of a sudden, if a story comes out, and it's not on Breitbart or endorsed by Drudge, it can't be true. Especially if it's about Donald Trump. Which is flat out ludicrous.”


I mean, it's horrifying, because that complete de-legitimization of the mainstream press has meant that there is no way for anyone to prove anything, ever. No source is acceptable proof to even a majority of the political spectrum.

But I'm getting a lot of schadenfreude from the woes of the guys who built the conservative media machine. They need to go down, hard.
posted by suelac at 10:54 AM on August 26, 2016 [54 favorites]


The Alt-Right Has Its Own Comedy TV Show On A Time Warner Network
Promotional material for World Peace winks at Hyde’s alt-right fans. “Celebrate Diversity Every Friday at 12:15A ET,” reads the tagline on the Adult Swim website. Press copy announcing the show promised that “World Peace will unlock your closeted bigoted imagination, toss your inherent racism into the burning trash, and cleanse your intolerant spirit with pure unapologetic American funny_com.” Though none of the three episodes that have aired so far have touched on politics or the alt-right, they have hardly been in good taste. The most recent episode of the show opened with Hyde, in blackface, speaking in exaggerated black vernacular for three minutes.

According to Showbuzz Daily, World Peace ranked number two among original cable shows on the night of its premiere, with more than a million viewers.

The alt-right — which attained its greatest notoriety yet today, when Hillary Clinton gave a speech denouncing it — has noticed the show. On Twitter, a steady stream of pro-Trump troll accounts have anointed World Peace “the only non cucked TV show” and “redpilled TV” that “will save the west.” A subreddit devoted to the show, moderated by someone claiming to be Hyde, describes itself with the ubiquitous Trump hashtag as “the Best Damn Internet Community™ on God’s green earth. #MAGA.” My Posting Career, the 4chan-meets-far-right-politics forum that helped coin “cuckservative,” is running a special “Faggot alert” at the top of the page alerting readers that World Peace airs every Friday[...]
posted by tonycpsu at 10:54 AM on August 26, 2016 [18 favorites]


The most recent episode of the show opened with Hyde, in blackface, speaking in exaggerated black vernacular for three minutes.

And he has a show on a major cable network? To quote someone upthread: Jesus fuck.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:59 AM on August 26, 2016 [11 favorites]


That it's a past-midnight short slot on Adult Swim suggests the possibility of a horrible convergence on the media-ending singularity that will be Too Many Cucks.
posted by cortex at 11:01 AM on August 26, 2016 [32 favorites]


But I'm getting a lot of schadenfreude from the woes of the guys who built the conservative media machine. They need to go down, hard.

I would enjoy that schadenfreude if I hadn't heard the exact same dismissal of the mainstream media from every single Bernie Sanders activist on my Facebook feed. And I know several of them personally -- they aren't pro-Trump trolls masquerading as Berners, though I have seen strong evidence of some of that on Reddit's /r/politics.

Rather, it seems to have been a deliberate strategy by Revolution Messaging, the same people who ran Obama's online efforts in 2008 (and got $3 million a MONTH from Bernie's campaign, a huge percentage of his total expenditures) without anyone noticing.

That terrifies me, both because the call is coming from inside the building, and because clearly smart and successful, left-leaning online message makers endorse the effectiveness of the strategy to destroy the media's legitimacy. What are the odds that the next person to use it will be as benign as Bernie?
posted by msalt at 11:02 AM on August 26, 2016 [23 favorites]


Lol, the Trump campaign has hired Bill Stepien,

It's only one letter off from Stephen. Trump just wants more Steves.
posted by maryr at 11:02 AM on August 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


Godsdammit! Are they really wrecking Adult Swim for me?!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:04 AM on August 26, 2016 [10 favorites]


Media False Equivalence Is Trump’s Best Friend in the Debate Over Racism:
In my own piece about Clinton’s Reno speech yesterday I suggested one of the risks she ran was the perception that she was getting down in the gutter with Trump in a negative slug fest, a meme that could overwhelm the actual substance of what she is saying. But if major media organizations treat everything Trump says as equivalent in gravity and proximity to the truth as everything Clinton says, it could get even worse. After all, Trump throws out insults all the time, at nearly everybody. If insults equal fact-based attacks, the sheer volume of insults could win in the end.”
posted by kirkaracha at 11:07 AM on August 26, 2016 [15 favorites]


Working-Class Trump Supporters: Motivated by Racism, Economic Dislocation, and Community Decline
So you might think that a West Virginia coal miner turned strident anti-coal activist would support the one candidate who might do something about climate change and who would follow up on President Obama’s attempts to mitigate coal fired power plants. But you would be wrong. Meet Ed Wiley, a figure in the interesting looking new book by Alexander Zaitchik, The Gilded Rage: A Wild Ride through Donald Trump’s America. He is said anti-coal activist. He supports Donald Trump.

[...]

When you read something like this, from someone who is not a low-information voter, it’s hard to know what to make of it. He clearly doesn’t really believe in Trump as some great leader or even a stable person. But he doesn’t care. Because Trump is a businessman and we need businessmen, even though Wiley’s spent the last 15 years as the enemy of his state’s biggest business. So what’s going on here? Discussions of Trump voters and their motivations tend to revolve around two themes that I don’t see as nearly mutually exclusive as others often represent them. The first is that people are devastated by job losses in their communities and need good work. The second is that they are racist. Earlier in the interview, Wiley refers to a “colored boy” who died of an asthma attack at an anti-coal rally. So it’s not like he’s a real sophisticated guy when it comes to understanding race, even if I don’t think we can use this as enough evidence to say Wiley’s a racist.

On the other hand, all the conversations about people angry about job losses and believing in Trump because he supposedly will bring jobs back to the good old U.S.A. internalizes the highly unfortunate tendency to equate working class voters with white people. It’s whites in Scranton or West Virginia or Alabama who are angry about this. But it’s not like deindustrialization and globalization hasn’t hurt the economic prospects of African-American and Latino industrial workers as much as whites. It’s probably hurt them even more because they face racism on top of all the other problems economic upheaval and capital mobility creates. And those voters sure ain’t finding Trump appealing.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:11 AM on August 26, 2016 [16 favorites]


See, I made an oblique 76 reference and I've been stupidly pleased with myself.

This is like bragging that one of my shoes doesn't have a hole in it, I know.


Yesterday I dressed my son in a sharks shirt and jets shorts and no one noticed and I am disappointed with the world.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 11:12 AM on August 26, 2016 [54 favorites]


Paul Wolfowitz- 'I will have to vote for Clinton.'

Republicans Against Trump: Bush Advisor Wolfowitz Says He'll Likely Vote for Clinton
posted by kirkaracha at 11:12 AM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


As an almost-linguist, I find Lakoff's works extremely frustrating. On the one hand, I do think the general ideas of embodied cognition and conceptual blending have merit. On the other hand, the way Lakoff applies these ideas is just. so. simplistic. (If you can call it application at all, as all he and Johnson seem to have done is tack the idea of conceptual metaphors onto some more modern cognitive scientific theory). When you start reading Philosophy in the Flesh, you get the feeling that these ideas have so much potential -- only to be let down twenty pages later by yet another rehash of LOVE IS A JOURNEY.
posted by daniel_charms at 11:12 AM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


I would enjoy that schadenfreude if I hadn't heard the exact same dismissal of the mainstream media from every single Bernie Sanders activist on my Facebook feed.

Well, yeah, that's my concern. The idea that all mainstream/traditional media sources are corrupt is one that's been pushed more by the right, though, in part because they built an entire empire of rightwing media in which to corral their audience. There's always been a level of suspicion on the left of the MSM, but Mother Jones and The Stranger together do not equal the weight of the Drudge Report or Fox News. The left has always had to deal with the MSM because progressive outlets have much less market penetration.

But I'm still going to enjoy the way that the folks who have been riding this tiger to financial success are now, finally, getting chewed on by it. Those guys need to suffer for the damage they've done to the American public.
posted by suelac at 11:14 AM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]




Promotional material for World Peace winks at Hyde’s alt-right fans. “Celebrate Diversity Every Friday at 12:15A ET,” reads the tagline on the Adult Swim website.

Who advertises on the show (at least for now)?
posted by kewb at 11:27 AM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


I don't believe in wishing major harm upon even really reprehensible people, because I think it's bad karma. But I did spend much of my lunch break wishing minor ills upon Governor LePage, chief among them severe papercuts, stubbed toes, flat tires.

He is really challenging the strength of my policy, though.
posted by theredpen at 11:28 AM on August 26, 2016 [10 favorites]


Yesterday I dressed my son in a sharks shirt and jets shorts and no one noticed and I am disappointed with the world.

Did you get him to snap his fingers constantly as he walked? If not, the world is disappointed in you
posted by phearlez at 11:28 AM on August 26, 2016 [29 favorites]


Breaking: Trump has no Campaign Manager (Josh Marshall)
In effect, Conway appears to be functioning as some mix of national press secretary and chief surrogate. In the later case, that person will sometimes have a title like "strategist" of some such. Indeed, 'strategist' does seem like the role she's taken on. Simple point: an actual campaign manager doesn't have time to do this much television - especially with a campaign that seems to be mammothly behind on numerous elements of ground operation, get out the votes efforts and more.

This isn't a matter of titles. It's like having a driver and a chef. They are two different jobs. One person might possibly be capable of doing both. But no one can do both at the same time. If the driver is cooking a meal they can't also be driving the car. If they're trying to, something tragic will definitely happen. [...]

That's where the Trump camp is right now. So beyond the impulse control deficit and other deficiencies of the candidate, critical parts of running a national campaign aren't being tended to - having a person in charge of running the campaign, a coordinate communications strategy, organizing field operations. As we get into the meat of the campaign, that will start showing up in running disasters, mishaps and discovery that various tasks were simply never done.

Of course, it's theoretically possible that under different titles [the tasks of a campaign manager are] being done by people we don't see. But all the evidence suggests precisely the opposite. This is how you end up announcing a major policy address on the campaign's central issue, abruptly canceling the address, then having the candidate pull the plug on a central campaign agenda item and then a couple days later try to plug it back in.
The Trump campaign is being monumentally mismanaged.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:31 AM on August 26, 2016 [29 favorites]


The Alt-Right Has Its Own Comedy TV Show On A Time Warner Network

Tangentially, does anyone know if South Park has done a Trump episode yet? And if so, what was their take?

I don't think Trey and Matt are anything close to alt-right, but I also think they're constitutionally incapable of writing a political episode that doesn't:
A. soften the edges of Trump's awfulness
B. caricature HRC as embodying all the false stereotypes the right wing has painted her with for the past 25 years
C. conclude with the mushy message "Both sides are equally bad, m'kay.."
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:31 AM on August 26, 2016 [18 favorites]


Yesterday I dressed my son in a sharks shirt and jets shorts and no one noticed and I am disappointed with the world.

You need to have another child for that to work.

-- The World
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:31 AM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


conclude with the mushy message "Both sides are equally bad, m'kay.."

That's basically their mission statement.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:35 AM on August 26, 2016 [8 favorites]


honestly, nothing has made me miss glibertarians more than the alt right
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:36 AM on August 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


The Trump campaign is being monumentally mismanaged.

Every time I hear opposing explanations from them for whatever the hell Trump just said, I think of the game Give Me The Brain, where four wage-slave zombies are trying to do their jobs with a single brain between them.
posted by Countess Elena at 11:37 AM on August 26, 2016 [9 favorites]


glibertarians

I want this to involve the Gnu implementation of C, but it probably doesn't.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 11:38 AM on August 26, 2016 [24 favorites]


I guess I should apologize personally to languagehat for scarring him.
posted by wittgenstein at 11:38 AM on August 26, 2016 [18 favorites]


Me too, wittgenstein! And if you see Quine around, tell him to fuck off.
posted by spitbull at 11:43 AM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Tangentially, does anyone know if South Park has done a Trump episode yet? And if so, what was their take?

Season 20 starts in three weeks. From what I've read Trey and Matt choose to be apolitical to a certain extent and act as merely critics inside what is basically a bubble of their status as relatively successful white males.

The object of South Park seems to be to look at topical issues of society through a lens of absurdity that is comprised of white male "common sense" which usually ends up being some variety of libertarianism. If anything I'd expect an election episode of South Park to be, if not a repeat of "both sides suck" which is what I'd bet on if they even did it, is to have Gary Johnson looking like the only sane person in the room.
posted by Talez at 11:43 AM on August 26, 2016 [9 favorites]


Tangentially, does anyone know if South Park has done a Trump episode yet? And if so, what was their take?

Where My Country Gone? [wikipedia]
posted by zakur at 11:43 AM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


TIL South Park still exists.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 11:45 AM on August 26, 2016 [13 favorites]


Tangentially, does anyone know if South Park has done a Trump episode yet? And if so, what was their take?


They've always been stupid and blind about any perspectives that aren't white and male, but for the most part it seemed well-intentioned stupidity and sometimes they'd make a comedy classic. Like a really enthusiastic Great Dane who regularly swings his tale and clears your dining room table, I guess?

But then the stupidity and blindness kept getting worse, past the point of deniability, until...last season?, which they spent going after "social justice warriors."

Idk. Lots of people seem to drift towards the angry right as they get older.

I do think the redditor alt-right types think of South Park as one of their shows. There's got to be a reason for that.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:46 AM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


South Park has always been about false equivalence and how the Truth-Is-In-The-Middle and the correct response to societal problems just happens to be cynical apathy, i.e. no response.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:51 AM on August 26, 2016 [19 favorites]




the correct response to societal problems just happens to be cynical apathy, i.e. no response.
Which ends up being a much more conservative viewpoint than it seems at first. Don't change anything, don't work for change, don't try, just stay where you are. Be sure to laugh at anyone who is trying, though.
posted by soelo at 11:55 AM on August 26, 2016 [27 favorites]


does anyone know if South Park has done a Trump episode yet?

Sharon: Stanley, what the hell are you doing?
Stan: I'm beating off the dog.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 11:55 AM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


The Alt-Right Has Its Own Comedy TV Show On A Time Warner Network

Why are we talking about South Park when we should be talking about this horrible show. What the actual hell were Williams Street Execs thinking when they greenlit this? Its like someone conservative watched Tim and Eric and said "Hey this 'irony' and weird costumes is a great way to appeal to moron right wing twitter trolls without being burdened with the demands of actual comedy! Wheee!

FOH with this, take it down.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:56 AM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


schadenfrau: "I do think the redditor alt-right types think of South Park as one of their shows. There's got to be a reason for that."

Oh hey, remember the "South Park Republicans" aka "South Park Conservatives"?
posted by mhum at 11:57 AM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Partly because the success of South Park helped make those execs think that show might be a good idea.
posted by soelo at 12:01 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


aka brosephs who like weed, the idea of girls making out, and the right of any man to avoid responsibility for a pregnancy by sending half the money for an abortion

they're better than fundamentalists by a hair, anyway
posted by Countess Elena at 12:02 PM on August 26, 2016 [7 favorites]


Well, to get us off the SP talk ...

... I've been wondering when Trump's "I regret some things I've said" speech would show up in the polls and I wonder if it's finally happened, with Clinton nearly her lowest since the end of the month. [538: Polls plus 72.9%]

Or if this is an effect of all the lazy Clinton Foundation journalism for this week?

Also it's kind of crazy that a "bad week" for Clinton is only a percentage or three dip in her probability.
posted by Tevin at 12:15 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


At the end of today's Democracy Now! (alt link) Amy Goodman is interviewing a sunburned, overalls-wearing Emma Thompson, who just came back from a Greenpeace activism trip to the Arctic, and tells her about Nigel Farage's recent visit to the U.S. and appearance with Trump and their shared climate change denialism. Thompson's reaction is so hilariously expressive, completely ashamed facepalming and dismay, with increasing dread at each further detail. (At about 56:10)

The whole broadcast is worth watching as well, as usual, for the most part a wide-ranging discussion of issues from across the Middle East and South Asia with Vijay Prashad, as well as more about Thompson's trip.
posted by XMLicious at 12:18 PM on August 26, 2016 [14 favorites]


Or if this is an effect of all the lazy Clinton Foundation journalism for this week?

Likely this. Trump has compared it to a hedge fund, and called it a "great criminal enterprise" with zero media push back.

Seriously, if their fever dreams were true, Clinton is guilty of shaking down foreign leaders and corporations for donations to a charity from which she draws no salary.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:22 PM on August 26, 2016 [18 favorites]




Winner of best new "Trump is alt-right" joke:
What's the difference between Donald Trump and the Hindenburg?

One is a flaming Nazi gasbag and the other was an airship.
Top kek.
posted by Talez at 12:33 PM on August 26, 2016 [37 favorites]


Katy Tur got spat on at a Trump rally yesterday.

Charming bunch of people.
posted by Talez at 12:34 PM on August 26, 2016 [10 favorites]


So there's a Trump rally happening in Everett on Tuesday. I just moved about fifteen minutes away from the rally location... part of me is tempted to go see what the outside crowds are like, but the rest of me really just wants to barricade myself in my home.

These were my exact thoughts last month when Insane Clown Posse played the club a block from my place. I opted for the barricades.
posted by rocket88 at 12:37 PM on August 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


Winner of best new "Trump is alt-right" joke:

What's the difference between Donald Trump and the Hindenburg?


Only "new" in the sense that it's been told about Limbaugh for years.
posted by Etrigan at 12:39 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Ideally, it needs to boot Trump and nominate someone like Jeb Bush
Coming back to this, if the Republicans did find a way to boot Trump and replace him, what would happen in states where it's too late to change the name on the ballot? Would those votes be redirected to the new candidate, or would they still count for Trump (thus splitting the R vote and removing any slight chance they had of winning)?
posted by une_heure_pleine at 12:41 PM on August 26, 2016


Tangentially, does anyone know if South Park has done a Trump episode yet? And if so, what was their take?

Season 19, Episode 2. That's the Wikipedia link. NSFW text. Trigger warning.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 12:43 PM on August 26, 2016


Interesting bit of Steve Bannon's resume: he was once CEO of Biosphere 2. It did not go well.
posted by zompist at 12:50 PM on August 26, 2016 [15 favorites]


The 1872 precedent suggests that electors would be freed to vote for the new candidate, but truthfully, no one knows.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:54 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


When it comes to the post-irony/post-sincerity of stuff like MDE, I cannot help but think of Mother Night. And that was serving as a spy during WWII. Stuff like MDE is self-serving for lulz, career, and purposefully shit art/comedy.

And if the politics of Hyde's purposefully shit art/comedy is sincere, he's hiding behind a troll smokescreen.

Be careful who you pretend to retweet.
posted by defenestration at 1:01 PM on August 26, 2016 [7 favorites]


On the one hand, I do think the general ideas of embodied cognition and conceptual blending have merit.

In case you missed the memo, perhaps the biggest trouble spot in the psychology replication crisis is embodied cognition research. Lots of replication failures, dubious looking stats and methods.

It's possibly because it the newest hotness and other areas will get their time in sanitizing sun but embodied cognition is looking wildly over-hyped.
posted by srboisvert at 1:03 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Uncool Grampa wants to know, what's "MDE"?
posted by notsnot at 1:04 PM on August 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


For those of you wanting sources to cite in defending the Clintons and their charity work, Charitywatch.org gives the Clinton Foundation an A rating, and CNN did a quick piece on it.
posted by pocketfullofrye at 1:05 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


My bad, notsnot. MDE is MillionDollarExtreme, as written about in the BuzzFeed Article The Alt-Right Has Its Own Comedy TV Show On A Time Warner Network, linked above.
posted by defenestration at 1:09 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]




Uncool Grampa wants to know, what's "MDE"?

Methylenedioxyethylamphetamine.
posted by zarq at 1:10 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


So, if South Park is... "problematic", is there an example of a comedy program that is not... "problematic"?
posted by My Dad at 1:10 PM on August 26, 2016


Pledge card for Jill Stein fans to printout, sign and carry.
posted by humanfont at 1:12 PM on August 26, 2016 [29 favorites]


Calling South Park problematic is like calling an outhouse basement a bit dirty.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:13 PM on August 26, 2016 [17 favorites]


Pledge card for Jill Stein fans to printout, sign and carry.

The classic reply from a BoB is "well it'll be all of your faults for not voting Stein instead of SHILLARY".
posted by Talez at 1:16 PM on August 26, 2016


Pledge card for Jill Stein fans to printout, sign and carry.

Heh. Was not expecting that.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:16 PM on August 26, 2016


Uncool Grampa wants to know, what's "MDE"?

I initially read this as "Uncle Grandpa" and wondered if there had been a daytime/late-night crossover on Cartoon Network.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:16 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


hikikomoric surety
<3
posted by adamgreenfield at 1:18 PM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


So, if South Park is... "problematic", is there an example of a comedy program that is not... "problematic"?

Parks & Rec.
posted by nonasuch at 1:21 PM on August 26, 2016 [23 favorites]


New Yorker: The Challenge of Rebranding Donald Trump
But a big question mark still hangs over Trump, the same one I raised when he brought Conway and Steve Bannon, the head of Breitbart News, into his campaign. Is he in it to win? Or is his real goal to build up the Trump brand among conservatives and ultra-conservatives, perhaps with the ultimate ambition of launching a media venture?

If Trump’s only focus is the White House, he’ll go ahead with the rebranding and immigration-policy overhaul, even if it angers the Coulters and Palins of the world. If winning is a secondary concern, it might make more sense to stick with his existing policy and preserve his image as a conservative renegade. At the moment, he appears to want it both ways.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:21 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


30 Rock is also pretty delightful.
posted by stolyarova at 1:23 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Sensible Chuckle is often very droll.

[fake]
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 1:25 PM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


So there's a Trump rally happening in Everett on Tuesday. I just moved about fifteen minutes away from the rally location... part of me is tempted to go see what the outside crowds are like, but the rest of me really just wants to barricade myself in my home.

...

These were my exact thoughts last month when Insane Clown Posse played the club a block from my place. I opted for the barricades.


There's an upcoming book by ex-AV Club writer Nathan Rabin that might satisfy both of your curiosities.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:26 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


All in the Family
posted by beerperson at 1:26 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


So, if South Park is... "problematic", is there an example of a comedy program that is not... "problematic"?

I don't see anyone here (other than you) using the word 'problematic' in relation to South Park. Pointing out that the show has exhibited a specific agenda informed by the political leanings and sociological outlook of its creators does not equate to "mean show hurts my fee-fees, save me pc police!"
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:27 PM on August 26, 2016 [16 favorites]


I am sad that Adult Swim is thus tainted, and I am angry about it too, but maybe watching this clip of Eric Andre interview a guest will make you laugh for maybe an hour, as it did me. But then I'm kind of a jerk.
posted by angrycat at 1:28 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


NBC: Eric Trump: Nonexistent ‘holiday tree’ prompted father’s campaign
It’s entirely possible Eric Trump genuinely believes everything he said, but unfortunately, reality can get in the way of sincere talking points. For example, there are no school districts in the United States that prevent kids from saying the Pledge of Allegiance. He just made that up.

Similarly, the National Christmas Tree wasn’t renamed. As BuzzFeed’s report explained, there was some weird, right-wing chain email a few years ago that said the word “Christmas” was replaced with “Holiday” in the official name of the tree, but in reality, that never actually happened. Some conservatives made this up, the Trumps chose to believe it.

In other words, according to Eric Trump, Donald Trump is running for president at least in part because “he cares about” developments that never occurred. I don’t doubt that Eric Trump “could go on and on for hours,” but that’s because complaining about imaginary problems is incredibly easy.

But there’s more to this than just laughing at a silly mistake. The larger issue to keep in mind is that we’ve seen quite a bit of evidence that suggests Team Trump exists in some strange alternate universe.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:31 PM on August 26, 2016 [51 favorites]




Bad Reek, bad!
posted by Artw at 1:35 PM on August 26, 2016 [23 favorites]


"South Park isn't conservative. It offends everyone equally."
"Offend everyone equally is exactly what conservatives do."
posted by roll truck roll at 1:46 PM on August 26, 2016 [26 favorites]


Interesting bit of Steve Bannon's resume: he was once CEO of Biosphere 2. It did not go well.

Comments made by Bannon during his time working for the Biosphere project and in the early stages of criminal proceedings against Alling and Van Thillo would later emerge in a breach-of-contract and abuse of process lawsuit by the two. During proceedings, Bannon admitted to calling Alling a “bimbo” and a “self-centered, deluded young woman." He also admitted he had threatened to “kick” Alling’s ass, after being thwarted in his plans to fire managers in 1993 and that he had threatened to ram a five-page statement on safety violations in the Biosphere that Alling had brought up in a grand jury hearing “down her (expletive) throat.”

The roughness with women, the internal squabbles, doing the bidding of a wealthy man with a wild project—there is much from this chapter of Bannon’s life that suggests he’s a perversely perfect fit for the Trump campaign, which he now controls.


Ah. My guess was going to be "released startlingly more greenhouse gasses than anyone expected."
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:47 PM on August 26, 2016 [16 favorites]


Harry Enten at FiveThirtyEight: Gary Johnson Isn’t Fading (Or Rising).
Johnson is pulling in about 9 percent in the national polls, according to the FiveThirtyEight polls-only average. And his share in national polls has not fallen as we’ve gotten closer to the election. Indeed, Johnson’s support right now is higher than many other viable third-party candidates’ at a similar point in campaigns since 1948...

Most third-party candidates didn’t lose that much support between late summer and Election Day. Besides John Anderson in 1980, no candidate ended up finishing more than 3 percentage points below where they were polling in late August. The average drop-off is about 2 percentage points.
It’ll be a big relief if this holds, because one of the only scenarios where I can see the forecasts being badly wrong is if a large proportion of Johnson voters break for Trump at the last minute.
posted by mbrubeck at 1:48 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


On senators and Clinton: had dinner with a reporter friend of mine who covers congress. They said every single senator they reported on has been saying for years how much they respect HRC as a colleague.

Prediction: If she gets elected she going to get so much like, governing done.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:32 AM on August 26 [16 favorites +]


This is just fucking infuriating.
They publicly treat her like a convicted cannibal-serial-killer-child-molester-traitor-to-the-republic (and oh yeah, she has a vagina, how dare she), but they respect her in private.
Like she's just supposed to go along with that sort of treatment as part of the game because hey, it's politics.

And I have no trouble at all in believing that's the case for them.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:51 PM on August 26, 2016 [45 favorites]


Remember that South Park brought us Turd Sandwich vs Giant Douche as their commentary on the 2004 election. The 2004 election where it was becoming clear that the Iraq War was started on fraudulent premises, where John Kerry was being railroaded by the Swiftboat asshats, where Bush had previously been given the presidency by the Supreme Court. The South Park position was that you just couldn't tell Bush and Kerry apart.
posted by 0xFCAF at 1:56 PM on August 26, 2016 [53 favorites]


Prediction: If she gets elected she going to get so much like, governing done.

Alternately, they could just keep obstructing everything she does, even the stuff they halfway agree with or acknowledge is necessary, because they've already proven that they're nihilistic fuckwits.

I think Clinton at least has a better sense of who her enemies are than Obama did.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:59 PM on August 26, 2016 [26 favorites]


They publicly treat her like a convicted cannibal-serial-killer-child-molester-traitor-to-the-republic (and oh yeah, she has a vagina, how dare she), but they respect her in private.

It's total fuck you for being female syndrome.

Scores of women the world over make the world just work, and if they stop doing their jobs everything comes screeching to a halt. But case by case, well, she just does the dishes and buys the office supplies and files the paperwork, I mean, it's not that hard, and certainly not deserving of any sort of promotion or anything.
posted by phunniemee at 2:00 PM on August 26, 2016 [40 favorites]


Chuck Todd is about to talk about how "both sides" are in a race to the bottom in decorum, "starting from the top of the ticket" showing BOTH Clinton and Trump in an image. Seriously WTF is Clinton doing as a "race to the bottom"?
posted by zutalors! at 2:21 PM on August 26, 2016 [8 favorites]


I think Clinton at least has a better sense of who her enemies are than Obama did.

Yeah this.

I read, maybe a year or 18 months ago, back when the only thing that was pretty sure about the election was that Hillary was going to run and had good odds of winning, a piece speculating on what the H. Clinton administration might look like. It pointed out that Obama genuinely came in hoping that he could work across the aisle and spent a good part, maybe even 6 years, really trying to make friends of his enemies. (All of us liberals were of course tearing our hair out at every half-measure and pre-negotiation concession, remember?)

But that Hillary, by contrast, would come in very clearly knowing who her opposition is, and how much they're going to oppose her. She's shown herself to be a workhorse in the Senate, she's fantastically well versed in policy, has already built working relationships with world leaders, &c.

I think -- I hope, at least -- that we can expect a strong push out of the gate. I don't think she will be nearly as concerned about pissing off the right with executive orders and administrative (for lack of a better word) mischief. The kind of thing Obama reluctantly started to do with the executive orders on de-prioritization of deportations, etc.

Obama's caution is understandable: not only as a person who is conciliar by nature, but also as a constitutional scholar who is rightly concerned about executive overreach. On the other hand, energy is needed in the executive since it ain't coming from the legislature and the judiciary can only do so much to defend our rights and our public institutions from these vandals.

What I'm trying to say is, I hope she can be the LBJ to Obama's Kennedy.

I think she can do it.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:22 PM on August 26, 2016 [61 favorites]


Seriously WTF is Clinton doing as a "race to the bottom"?

Winning so decisively that horse-race depedenent cable news shows ratings are sinking to the bottom?
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:23 PM on August 26, 2016 [18 favorites]



Seriously WTF is Clinton doing as a "race to the bottom"?

Winning so decisively that horse-race depedenent cable news shows ratings are sinking to the bottom?


Yeah examples of Clinton's "Side" racing to the bottom:

"Clinton hurled the word 'racist' and 'bigot'"

A clip of someone pointing out the white supremacist ties in the Trump campaign (how is that mudslinging???????)

And a clip of Elizabeth Warren calling Trump "money grubbing"

This is so disgusting. The media is just really trying to pull up the "both sides do it card." This is utter garbage.
posted by zutalors! at 2:26 PM on August 26, 2016 [26 favorites]


Chuck Todd is about to talk about how "both sides" are in a race to the bottom in decorum, "starting from the top of the ticket" showing BOTH Clinton and Trump in an image. Seriously WTF is Clinton doing as a "race to the bottom"?

I just (literally) threw my hands in the air and let them slap loudly on my lap when he said that. They need to get rid of him and everybody else on that network that has a show except for Lawrence O'Donnell, and just give Joy-Ann all their shows.
posted by cashman at 2:27 PM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


MSNBC racing to the bottom line?
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:27 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


tocts: Dilution or not, the fundamental problem was that the GOP establishment refused to push back on Trump's bullshit from day one, because of the significant plurality of voters whose whole buy-in for the GOP has been that they're the party of racist/sexist/white supremacist dogwhistles.

I also imagine that the GOP was loving all the attention at their clown car of a primary process. In the lines of Donnie's thoughts, any publicity is good publicity, especially when it's free publicity.

Except the biggest clown got the most airtime and the most support. And just like a great wrestling heel, there were people who loved him and people who loved to hate him, and he fed off of all that energy, which the GOP also fed off of in the process.

Also, the other huge issue is that Donny got this far in part by running as the blustering anti-establishment guy, so how could the GOP, the very establishment he railed against, hope to take him on or re-shape him? If they really re-shaped him early on, he would lose supporters and might have even fallen to an early GOP competitor. Much like the immigration "pivot" he's (not) doing now, where his rabid base (or his love of attention) has him slipping all over the place on what and how he'll tackle immigration, he lacks the power he did when he was 100% Mr. Build The Wall.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:28 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also, since the faux response from Trump's people is do that "well we wanna talk about policy!" thing - does anybody have a link to when Trump made fun of policy itself? I tried to find it but the keywords are so generic. It was referenced by someone in one of these threads. Trump literally said some ridiculousness like "Policies? That's just a bunch of paper!" Anybody remember that? I hope that wasn't a fake comment I read as real.
posted by cashman at 2:29 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


No Chuck Todd is asking his pollster guest to "ignore the polls and say who seems like they might win."

"Trump, I'm sorry to say as a Democratic pollster"

WTF is going on?
posted by zutalors! at 2:29 PM on August 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


> Horse-race depedenent cable news shows ratings are sinking to the bottom?

Anecdata: I stayed at a hotel the last 4 nights where the lobby TVs were always tuned to CNN, and every single time I walked through the lobby, the chyron had the word "TRUMP" in it. Usually leading with it, as in "TRUMP SAYS ...", and sometimes "CLINTON SAYS TRUMP DOES ..." - but in not one single viewing was Trump not present in the text.

Thankfully I only had to spend seconds in the lobby each time.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:30 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Remember that South Park brought us Turd Sandwich vs Giant Douche as their commentary on the 2004 election. The 2004 election where it was becoming clear that the Iraq War was started on fraudulent premises, where John Kerry was being railroaded by the Swiftboat asshats, where Bush had previously been given the presidency by the Supreme Court. The South Park position was that you just couldn't tell Bush and Kerry apart.

I think that's about when I stopped watching the show. I was sad; I used to be a huge fan, I had a big weird crush on Matt and Trey, but as they've grown into powerful media titans they've really leaned into this whole "giving no fucks about anything or anyone is the coolest thing evarrrrr" mindset that permeates our culture and I'm just so fucking over it.
posted by palomar at 2:32 PM on August 26, 2016 [9 favorites]


Alternately, they could just keep obstructing everything she does, even the stuff they halfway agree with or acknowledge is necessary, because they've already proven that they're nihilistic fuckwits.

That's the current plan. GOP plots early wake-up call for Clinton:
If she wins the presidency, Clinton would likely enjoy the shortest honeymoon period of any incoming commander-in-chief in recent history, according to Washington strategists, confronting major roadblocks to enacting her ambitious agenda, as well as Republican attacks that have been muted courtesy of the GOP nominee.
...
“A lot of us would like to hold her accountable for the failures, but we are holding our fire,” [Kori] Schake said. “It's because all of us are afraid of Trump. If she wants to maintain our support after, she’s going to have to address our policy concerns about the economy and America’s role in the world.”
posted by kirkaracha at 2:32 PM on August 26, 2016 [7 favorites]


I watched the whole MSNBC line up with my cousin last night. We just looked at each other and were like "they're just talking about Trump. They've barely talked about Clinton at all."

And then today it's like "wow, people hate Clinton, huh? Bad turnout! She's racing to the bottom! That's our show, folks!"
posted by zutalors! at 2:33 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


WTF is going on?

Blind ratings grab?


On one hand, I understand the general notion of "if you wrestle a pig, you get muddy and the pig enjoys it."

But on the other hand, Donny has been saying vile shit and getting away with it, so Hillary finally called him on it, and did it well. But in doing so, "she said mean things" (WHICH WERE ALL TRUE.)
posted by filthy light thief at 2:34 PM on August 26, 2016 [8 favorites]


I know it's a ratings grab, the question is rhetorical and just expressive of my anger. I just really, really hate the proliferation of the idea that calling a racist a racist is "pig in shit" behavior or whatever. And the white supremacist thing is just true, it's the truth.
posted by zutalors! at 2:35 PM on August 26, 2016 [15 favorites]


My anti-Trump jewelry just arrived and I'm going canvassing in a purple (nearly blue, now) state all day tomorrow.

THINGS ARE LOOKIN' UP
posted by sallybrown at 2:44 PM on August 26, 2016 [10 favorites]


We're over 2500 comments. Do we need a new thread? If need be, I can create one.
posted by zarq at 2:44 PM on August 26, 2016 [10 favorites]


Quick reminder that the origin of the term "waving the bloody shirt" was antebellum Southerners ridiculing Northern politicians for using the crimes that said Southern politicians' constituents were committing as a call to action.

So total pieces of shit have been using "How dare you tell people about the terrible things we do? That's awful of you!" as a political argument for a really long time, is what I'm getting at.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:44 PM on August 26, 2016 [30 favorites]


Chuck Todd is asking his pollster guest to "ignore the polls..."

That's the person who rose up the NBC ranks as a number cruncher. Peter Principle in action. Also a sign that the cablenets are boooooooored with the state of the race.
posted by holgate at 2:46 PM on August 26, 2016 [8 favorites]


These fuckers are desperate to normalize Trump. Anything that goes against that is going to piss them off mightily.
posted by Artw at 2:50 PM on August 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


We're over 2500 comments. Do we need a new thread? If need be, I can create one.

Friday night makes me want to suggest folks just lurch through the weekend and regroup on Monday, barring any exceptional (by 2016 electoral standards) developments.
posted by cortex at 2:50 PM on August 26, 2016 [18 favorites]


No problem. Thanks for responding so quickly, cortex.
posted by zarq at 2:53 PM on August 26, 2016


"If she wants to maintain our support after, she’s going to have to address our policy concerns about the economy and America’s role in the world."

Hillary doesn't owe you a bucket to shit in. Your party nominated the bloviating squash. Rebuild your damn party to be less crazy and then ask nicely for the scraps from the table.

Anyway, Josh Marshall's Twitter feed is hosting an off-the-cuff discussion about field ops, and one question raised was whether the best field people on the GOP side are still waiting for a phone call, or have signed up for the season with downballot races and state parties. For people who do this professionally, they expect a three month contract, not the possibility of getting 60 days' work.
posted by holgate at 2:54 PM on August 26, 2016 [33 favorites]


Remember, exceptional for 2016. So a giant meteor wouldn't count.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:55 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


MDE, also known as yet another group of white males that threatened to kill someone on camera, with no consequences.
posted by Yowser at 2:57 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Chuck Todd is asking his pollster guest to "ignore the polls..."

I can never take Chuck Todd seriously as a journalist, as he looks too much like a doppelgänger of Murray from Flight of the Conchords. (Though I suspect Murray would have a better nose for news, especially if it involved a fence made from toothbrushes.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:57 PM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


I want a roll call before Chuck Todd begins any roundtable discussion.
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:01 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


MSNBC was crowing over "race to the bottom" on Meet The Pres Daily. I got sick of it so I turned to CNN.

CNN: "Are the campaigns on a race to the bottom?!?"

I quit.
posted by cashman at 3:06 PM on August 26, 2016 [12 favorites]


This would also be a really smart time for union organizers or would-be union organizers to make a push to increase membership. Unions make a lot more sense as a response to the problems that Trump supporters actually have than supporting Trump does.

Um, unions are perpetually pushing for membership. With varying rates of success and competence.

That's what enabled unions to be heavily involved in turning out "less likely voters" for Obama. Many union organizers have experience going into communities that have been passed up, and they volunteered to knock doors and register voters and do turnout in the high crime areas, the places with crumbling buildings, gang territories, etc. Not that the people there are inherently dangerous, but you need to be able to handle yourself. And while I doubt the Dems are sending people there, if anyone is going into possible Trump territory this election, it's union organizers.
posted by zennie at 3:07 PM on August 26, 2016 [7 favorites]


Quite frankly if you are a Syrian in Aleppo there is very little difference between Kerry, who has been a very weak foreign secretary, and Bush.

Point taken, US foreign policy is bipartisan-ly (?) terrible buuuuuut only one of those guys actually orchestrated and implemented an illegal war of aggression that led directly to the destruction of civil order across a huge swathe of the world, the largest refugee crisis since 1945, etc....

I hate tuna but if my choices are soggy tuna sandwich or shit sandwich I'll eat the gross cat food smelling fishy thing every time.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:12 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


I hate Chuck Todd because he took a workplace hit out on my gentle giant dancing man David Gregory. You were just too groovy for this game, Gregory.
posted by sallybrown at 3:12 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]




Sigh. I guess I can live without watching the next season of Rick and Morty. At least ATHF is gone, makes the decision to avoid CN/Adult Swim easier.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 3:13 PM on August 26, 2016


"I think I picked up his kind of language and then just interpreted it to my own," he said.

"I like Donald Trump because I think he likes me," he said.

"His health is excellent, especially his mental health," he said in an exclusive interview at his Park Avenue office.

ahhhhh
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:15 PM on August 26, 2016 [11 favorites]


That picture... it's at least POSSIBLE that it's Trump with his hair down (SHUDDER), glasses, and a fake beard...
posted by acidic at 3:16 PM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


"His health is excellent, especially his mental health," [Dr. Bornstein] said in an exclusive interview at his Park Avenue office.

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
posted by stolyarova at 3:16 PM on August 26, 2016 [18 favorites]


ok one final thing can we call him Dr. Doubledown?
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:20 PM on August 26, 2016


"If elected, Mr. Trump, I can state unequivocally, will be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency," Bornstein wrote.

Asked how he could justify the hyperbole, Bornstein said, "I like that sentence to be quite honest with you."


I... just... that's so emblematic of everything on the Trump side. They just really like the things they say and that's all that matters.
posted by yellowbinder at 3:20 PM on August 26, 2016 [31 favorites]


EXCLUSIVE: Trump doctor says he wrote health letter in just 5 minutes as limo waited [real]

You could knock me over with a feather right now - I was sure that doctor's note was written by Trump himself (or maybe Meredith) and was 100% fraudulent. I'm still only half convinced it isn't.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 3:23 PM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


So is this guy in charge of the daily blood transfusions and/or making a creepy Frankenstein knight out of Lewandowski?
posted by Artw at 3:23 PM on August 26, 2016 [8 favorites]


laughing too hard to form coherent thought
posted by sallybrown at 3:26 PM on August 26, 2016 [11 favorites]


He went on to say that the Oval Office has been occupied by presidents with dementia or tumors or even men who were "paranoid" or "psychotic."

Wow, that's a hearty fuck-you to old Saint Ronnie. Nice. I'd love to see Donald Trump in 20 years kick as much ass as Jimmy Carter is doing now.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:27 PM on August 26, 2016 [11 favorites]


Oh god. The dude in that picture is so close to how I imagined Donald Trump's doctor after reading that note months ago. Like I can't even tell you. Wow.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:27 PM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


Do we know where John McAfee is now? Are we sure he didn't put on a long hippie wig and start offering medical services to wealthy dipshits?
posted by Existential Dread at 3:29 PM on August 26, 2016 [13 favorites]


That full quote: Asked how he could justify the hyperbole, Bornstein said, "I like that sentence to be quite honest with you and all the rest of them are either sick or dead."

So I guess that Obama was taken out by one of his own death panels. Nice animatronic version you got up and running, guys.
posted by maudlin at 3:29 PM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


Windows XP has been deprecated since 2014, he really should get on that.
posted by Artw at 3:31 PM on August 26, 2016 [13 favorites]


Once this crazy ride is all over and the HBO mini series is being made, they better cast Rip Torn as Trump's doctor.
posted by airish at 3:32 PM on August 26, 2016 [13 favorites]


> Corb, you cannot undermine democracy in order to save democracy. That's not how it works.

Yup. They went that route in Russia in the '90s because they were so terrified of a Communist win, and they wound up with Putin.
posted by languagehat at 3:32 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Windows XP has been deprecated since 2014, he really should get on that.

Hey man, it takes time to go through those 60+ icons and figure out what to backup.
posted by cashman at 3:32 PM on August 26, 2016 [8 favorites]


Trump's doctor is Willie Nelson?
posted by spitbull at 3:33 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency

OK, let's see his 21-point pickup basketball game v. Obama.

I mean I would pay make some big campaign donations to see that.
posted by Miko at 3:41 PM on August 26, 2016 [14 favorites]


@seanspicer
.@timkaine KKK comments are reprehensible and over the top. Democrats who don't denounce are complicit


LOL he makes it sound like Kaine said something supportive of the KKK! What a reprehensible, over the top trick!
posted by acidic at 3:42 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Hell, let Donnie name the sport.
posted by VTX at 3:43 PM on August 26, 2016


OK, let's see his 21-point pickup basketball game v. Obama.

Fine, fine, but for the love of all that's decent, Obama is skins and Trump is shirts.
posted by dw at 3:45 PM on August 26, 2016 [18 favorites]


healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency

As much as I despise George W. Bush, I'd like to point out that examples of his physical fitness while in office are pretty much endless. Dude was said to regularly outlast his Secret Service detail and Marines on runs around his ranch in Texas. And he could dodge flying shoes like no one else.

Not so much for safely eating pretzels, though. Donnie might have him on that one.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:47 PM on August 26, 2016 [22 favorites]


I'm becoming more convinced of the theory that Trump is a Never Nude. You think Dr. Bornstein* has ever done a full medical exam on Trump anyone?

hey Dr. Booooornsteeeeeeein heeeereeeee iiiiiiiiiiii aaaaaaaaaaam /Barbra
posted by sallybrown at 3:51 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


I also have endless issues with W, but he was running sub-7 minute miles well into his late 40's. In fact, I always figured if I was forced into conversation with him we could bore each other silly with talk of shoes, stride and favorite places to run.

Why, yes, I do endlessly think of contingency plans for what I'd talk about with people I despise in case I'm ever trapped in a room with them. Why do you ask?

So, yeah, saying Trump would be the "healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency" is probably today's whopper of the day, and considering the competition that's really saying something.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:52 PM on August 26, 2016 [15 favorites]


That is Rip Torn.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:52 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Oh god. The dude in that picture is so close to how I imagined Donald Trump's doctor after reading that note months ago. Like I can't even tell you. Wow.

Dr. Bornstein is like a Captain Ron sequel where the possibly fictional 'Ron Bornstein' character finally graduates from a shady Caribbean medical school and becomes Donald Trump's personal doctor.
posted by peeedro at 3:53 PM on August 26, 2016 [9 favorites]


"Democrats who don't denounce are complicit"!
Hillary should try standing at the podium and saying, "Stop copying me! MOM!" One of the operatives will probably tweet it out within the hour.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:53 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


My favorite quote: "I don't think he's in any better or worse than the average person that goes and exercises every single day," he said. "Doesn't smoke, doesn't drink — and that's simply the best advantage you can have to live — and he's got a good family history."

So he is in perfect health-- just like the average 70 year old man who exercises (golfs) every day. And sure he doesn't smoke or drink but it isn't like he eschews all fast food. YMMV but I'm guessing that a 70 year old who eats healthy, keeps his weight down and works out cardiovascularly every day is probably in better shape than Trump.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:53 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Drew Magary comparing Bornstein to Rob Ryan is also perfect.
posted by sallybrown at 3:54 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


All this bluster about how "bigoted" Hillary is being and how she's "pandering to the worst instincts in our society" is only the latest example of how for white people, the most horrible ethnic slur imaginable is "racist".
posted by J.K. Seazer at 3:55 PM on August 26, 2016 [23 favorites]


Jonathan Lemire: Trump to Hispanic supporters in Vegas: "We've been doing very very well with the Latinos. Far greater than anyone understands"

"Greater than anyone understands"? What a strange statement. So he has secret Hispanic supporters now and we are just incapable of understanding that?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:58 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Joy-Ann Reid is doing Hardball. Lets go.
posted by cashman at 4:00 PM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


In a way some white people do think it's an ethnic slur. They think it means you're a fat hillbilly who throws rocks at little black girls. Of course they aren't, how can you stereotype ... And around and around it goes.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:00 PM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


Trump taps Bush, Romney veterans for transition:
Other Trump transition staff include William Hagerty, an economic adviser to George H.W. Bush who was a key player on Romney’s transition team; and Jamie Burke, who worked for George W. Bush as White House liaison to Health and Human Services and also served on Romney’s transition team.
So they're bringing in people with experience in planning phantom transitions for failed campaigns.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:01 PM on August 26, 2016 [18 favorites]


NYTimes: Donald Trump Hires First and Deals With Background Questions Later
Mr. Bannon, Mr. Manafort and Mr. Stepien are not the first of Mr. Trump’s hires to come with baggage. Mr. Manafort’s predecessor, Corey Lewandowski, also came with some warning signs. As a congressional aide, he was once arrested after he brought a gun to work. He also ended up distracting Mr. Trump’s campaign after he was charged with battery in April for allegedly grabbing the arm of a reporter. Those charges were later dropped.

Mr. Trump, who once tried to trademark the phrase “you’re fired,” which he popularized as star of “The Apprentice,” has shown a tendency to hire with his gut in other instances. During a news conference at the construction site of his Washington hotel in March, he plucked a woman from the audience and offered her a job with his company.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:03 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Todd wasn't asking people to ignore the polls and say who was going to win; he was asking all else being equal, who should have an advantage this cycle? As opposed to who does have an advantage according to the polls. And the answer of Trump is correct. Looking at the right track / wrong track numbers, the anti-establishment sentiment of the country, the economic anxiety numbers, and the fact that we're coming off 8 years of Democratic leadership the Republican nominee should have an advantage this cycle. But Trump is such a racist shitnozzle candidate that he's losing.

That was the point being made rather than something idiotic about Trump winning despite the polls.
posted by Justinian at 4:04 PM on August 26, 2016 [8 favorites]


The ACLU has filed a FOIA request with office of the Governor LePage for the binder which he referenced in this statement: "I’ve been collecting every single drug dealer who has been arrested in our state . . .and I will tell you that 90 plus percent of those pictures in my book, and it’s a three ring binder, are black and Hispanic people from Waterbury, Connecticut, the Bronx, and Brooklyn"
Specifically, I request an opportunity to inspect the following public record:

1)The Governor’s three ring binder containing pictures of “every single drug dealer who has been arrested in our state.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:15 PM on August 26, 2016 [71 favorites]


Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

The casting for the inevitable TV movie just takes care of itself.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:15 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


So he is in perfect health-- just like the average 70 year old man who exercises (golfs) every day.

I know that was snark, but you have to wonder about the health effects of that much flying. Sure, the Trump 757 isn't steerage class on United, and it has the best filters, the most filtery air filters, but he's certainly racking up more air miles than Clinton or Kaine by flying home every night, and air travel is draining.
posted by holgate at 4:17 PM on August 26, 2016


If she wins the presidency, Clinton would likely enjoy the shortest honeymoon period of any incoming commander-in-chief in recent history, according to Washington strategists, confronting major roadblocks to enacting her ambitious agenda, as well as Republican attacks that have been muted courtesy of the GOP nominee.

That would be impossible, since McConnell planned to undermine Obama from the instant he was swore in.

Enjoy minority leader status, Yertle. Good luck obstructing the judges (because you know he will) after we nuke the filibuster.
posted by leotrotsky at 4:17 PM on August 26, 2016 [11 favorites]


Steve Bannon moves Florida voter registration to home of Breitbart writer
Donald Trump’s campaign chief has moved his voter registration to the home of one [sic] his website’s writers, after the Guardian disclosed that he was previously registered at an empty house in Florida where he did not live.

Stephen Bannon is now registered to vote at the Florida house of Andy Badolato, who reports for Breitbart News and has worked with Bannon in the past on the production of political films.

According to public records, Badolato, 52, and two of his adult sons are also registered to vote at the property, which he co-owns with his ex-wife.

A spokeswoman for Bannon, a spokesman for Trump, and Badolato did not respond to emailed questions about whether Bannon lives at the single-family house, which is listed as his residence on his new voter registration record in Sarasota County.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 4:19 PM on August 26, 2016 [11 favorites]




Mod note: Tim Kaine Harmonica Jam with Jon Batiste and Stay Human
it's real, and it's spectacular
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 4:25 PM on August 26, 2016 [17 favorites]


WTH is Surfer Doc's framed painting on the wall of a cowboy boot with like a diamond in the toe?
I mean I don't go to the fanciest doctors but usually there's none of that shit
posted by angrycat at 4:26 PM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


Ben Carson to Donald Trump: Stop Calling Hillary Clinton a ‘Bigot’ [real]

"Trump’s most ardent and sometimes perplexing surrogate" - maybe because Carson feels Trump is the only one who really stood by him?
posted by sallybrown at 4:29 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]




Todd wasn't asking people to ignore the polls and say who was going to win; he was asking all else being equal, who should have an advantage this cycle? As opposed to who does have an advantage according to the polls. And the answer of Trump is correct. Looking at the right track / wrong track numbers, the anti-establishment sentiment of the country, the economic anxiety numbers, and the fact that we're coming off 8 years of Democratic leadership the Republican nominee should have an advantage this cycle. But Trump is such a racist shitnozzle candidate that he's losing.

That was the point being made rather than something idiotic about Trump winning despite the polls.


That was not the context of the question. It was right after a Wisconsin roundtable in which a mostly white group was asked what the election "smelled like" and they answered "skunk!" "garbage"! and that means Everyone Hates Hillary.
posted by zutalors! at 4:32 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Tim Kaine Harmonica Jam with Jon Batiste and Stay Human

Loved that beat at the end where he's like "Oh, we're wrapping up?"
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:32 PM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


I agree with whoever said Joy-Ann is the one who actually plays Hardball on this show. Chris Matthews, whenever he hangs em up, should make way for Joy-Ann. I hope MSNBC doesn't suddenly disappear her like MHP.
posted by cashman at 4:33 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


It was also a way for Chuck Todd to pitch his "We'll see terrible turnout because everyone hates this election" idea plus "at the VP debate, everyone is going to say, 'why can't we flip the ticket??" [real, he really said that]
posted by zutalors! at 4:33 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Happy National Dog Day from Clinton and her dogs! (Those seriously are some handsome dogs, even if they can never hold a candle to Socks.)
posted by sallybrown at 4:34 PM on August 26, 2016 [18 favorites]




I agree with whoever said Joy-Ann is the one who actually plays Hardball on this show.


I feel like since it's black people week at the RNC, they should just replace all anchors for all shows with black people. Really annoying to get the White Opinion on what 'racism is.'
posted by zutalors! at 4:35 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


If she wins the presidency, Clinton would likely enjoy the shortest honeymoon period of any incoming commander-in-chief in recent history, according to Washington strategists, confronting major roadblocks to enacting her ambitious agenda, as well as Republican attacks that have been muted courtesy of the GOP nominee.

That would be impossible, since McConnell planned to undermine Obama from the instant he was swore in.

Enjoy minority leader status, Yertle.


McConnell was the minority leader for three-quarters of the Obama presidency, recall. Obama had a Democratic Congress for his first two years and a divided Congress for the next four. Odds are Clinton will have a shorter honeymoon period than he did.
posted by Etrigan at 4:35 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


From the article posted by zakur:
“I don’t generally get into the name-calling thing,” Carson said in a phone interview with The Daily Beast on Friday morning. “I kind of left that behind in the third grade. I certainly don’t encourage it because the issues that we’re facing are incredibly important—for us and for the future generations.”
Jeez, has he been asleep the whole time? Trump's main schtick is name-calling: Lyin Ted, Crooked Hillary, Pocahontas, Little Marco, Corrupt Hillary, Hillary Rotten Clinton.
He said that it is the media’s responsibility to help guide candidates away from such attacks
Wow, just when I think Carson can't appear any more clueless.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:35 PM on August 26, 2016 [10 favorites]




Happy National Dog Day from Clinton and her dogs! (Those seriously are some handsome dogs, even if they can never hold a candle to Socks.)


Or Buddy, RIP. Gone too soon.
posted by zutalors! at 4:35 PM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


Jeez, has he been asleep the whole time?

Yes
posted by sallybrown at 4:37 PM on August 26, 2016 [14 favorites]


Happy National Dog Day from Clinton and her dogs!

Two huskies and the Big Dog.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:39 PM on August 26, 2016 [10 favorites]


>plus "at the VP debate, everyone is going to say, 'why can't we flip the ticket??" [real, he really said that]

Oh right, the Pence-Kaine debate is going to be so riveting and so enthralling that all of America is going to be crying out for their leadership.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:40 PM on August 26, 2016 [7 favorites]


Happy National Dog Day from Clinton and her dogs!

Two huskies and the Big Dog.


Exactly. And I would like Judge Kara Brown of Shade Court to weigh in on whether this is very sly shade or not.
posted by sallybrown at 4:40 PM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


Seriously, though, if someone told you this entire year has been simply a figment of Dr. Carson's imagination, wouldn't it make more sense than the fact that it's actually happening?
posted by sallybrown at 4:42 PM on August 26, 2016 [26 favorites]


Sopan Deb: Trump, in phoner with Fox, say says "in many cases" inner cities are "worse than war zones."

Right. My guess is that Trump has never been in a war zone and I suspect he has not been in any "inner cities" lately. Someone hand him some pictures and point out the differences.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:44 PM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


Happy National Dog Day from Clinton and her dogs!

Beautiful dogs!

Does Trump have a pet? I can't imagine he has ever loved an animal, because what would be the point? What could a dumb animal possibly offer him in return that would make it even worth his time?
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:44 PM on August 26, 2016 [11 favorites]


Dogs think their owners are The Best Person ever but I don't think Trump has a pet.
posted by zutalors! at 4:45 PM on August 26, 2016


I understand he's a germophobe, which means no way. Pets mean poop.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:46 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump supposedly has a lab named Spinee, Meredith probably takes care of it
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:47 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


That's the first I've heard of it (Spinee.) I wonder why there are no pictures?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:48 PM on August 26, 2016


Well, not apart from Christie.
posted by Devonian at 4:48 PM on August 26, 2016 [20 favorites]


Trump supposedly has a lab named Spinee

I'm guessing its a meth lab.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:49 PM on August 26, 2016 [30 favorites]


ok on further investigation it looks like the actual breed of Trump's dog is "internet hoax"
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:51 PM on August 26, 2016 [18 favorites]


Are you sure you're not getting that confused with the giant hedgehog that follows him around, named Spiney Norman?
posted by mach at 4:52 PM on August 26, 2016 [12 favorites]


If you google Spinee Trump you get pictures of a lab and another lab called "catchFred" also belonging to Trump and some news stories but no pictures of either dog with any people.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:53 PM on August 26, 2016


I don't see anyone here (other than you) using the word 'problematic' in relation to South Park. Pointing out that the show has exhibited a specific agenda informed by the political leanings and sociological outlook of its creators does not equate to "mean show hurts my fee-fees, save me pc police!"

If Canadians can watch South Park anyone can.
posted by srboisvert at 4:53 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump had a dog, but he fired him.
posted by sallybrown at 4:53 PM on August 26, 2016 [18 favorites]


That's the first I've heard of it (Spinee.) I wonder why there are no pictures?

The Trump family wants to protect Spinee's privacy.

Also, Spinee is a statue of a dog.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:54 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Is that Spinee as in, Spine-e ... covered in spines?
posted by bonobothegreat at 4:56 PM on August 26, 2016


Trump had a dog, but he fired him.

Fired him like a dog. Sad!
posted by zakur at 4:59 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


This story has a Trump quote about Spinee who underwent surgery
“May I ask one favor? My dog Spinee needs your prayers,” he tweeted. “She just came out of a difficult surgery … She is my beloved.” Then throughout the night he posted subsequent updates about her condition indicating while “she is not out of the woods. . . prayers (are) working."
but if you follow up on the surgery it turns out it was all a hoax:
Thus thousands of celebrities, Bill Gates in USA, Zhang Ziyi in China, Ranbir Kapoor in India, etc. all have a dog called “Spinee” recovering from successful surgery.
I don't know if people actually did pray for Trump's dog.

And by the way, catchFred goes here which appears to be more about the hoax dog.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:01 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


New Zealand's take on Trump's Doctor: Jeremy: The years have been unkind to Dr Nick.
posted by vac2003 at 5:03 PM on August 26, 2016 [7 favorites]


Trump cancelled AZ. Next event is WA on the 30th.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:04 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm hoping he'll cancel his threatened Seattle visit, because who wants to deal with that mess? It'd require being away from home for the night so chances are good.
posted by Artw at 5:07 PM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


Trump's "Rosebud" is that his childhood dog was named Steve. His father decided arbitrarily to get rid of him, and told little Donny that Steve had been "fired" and was going to be living in Mexico City.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 5:10 PM on August 26, 2016 [42 favorites]


Trump, 2011:

"Hillary Clinton did so much for the black population, so much and got very few votes."

"Look, I tell it like it is," he added. "Then you hear a political reporter go on and say, 'It had nothing to do with race.' But how come she got such a tiny piece of the vote. It's a very sad thing."
posted by chris24 at 5:24 PM on August 26, 2016 [15 favorites]


Trump cancelled AZ.

Trump says: Will be in Phoenix, Arizona on Wednesday. Changing venue to much larger one. Demand is unreal. Polls looking great! #ImWithYou

[real]
posted by sallybrown at 5:32 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


"Hillary Clinton did so much for the black population, so much"

And that was on radio! Oh I hope Hillary's campaign has already gotten the audio and are about to use it in an ad.
posted by cashman at 5:33 PM on August 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


Trump says

Android or iPhone?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:38 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Barron: Sir, can we get a dog?
DJT: Sure! How 'bout a Gold Retriever?
Barron [thinks: Is that what they're called? I must be mistaken] Awesome! Thanks, Sir!

Months elapse with Barron reminding DJT of his promise. One day, DJT summons Barron and points out a giant cardboard box. Barron rips open the lid and sees... a gilded statue of a dog.

Barron, lip trembling: But... but... Sir?

[Sad trombone]
posted by carmicha at 5:38 PM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


As much as I despise George W. Bush, I'd like to point out that examples of his physical fitness while in office are pretty much endless. Dude was said to regularly outlast his Secret Service detail and Marines on runs around his ranch in Texas.

And I'd like to point out how silly this is. If you're on the presidential detail, either as a marine, a Secret Service agent, or flying Air Force One, you're pretty much the best of the best of the best with honors, sir. The military and law enforcement people who interact with the president on a personal level are people who have spent at least a decade being vetted by eating broken glass and shitting out Swarovski crystals. The people on presidential details are squared away, bigly; from thumb wrestling to triathlons, they will beat you every time, no matter what. They are the most competitive people in the most competitive environments, people who will sacrifice anything for a seat at the next big show.

This is not to throw any shade on GWB's physical fitness, but imagine if the president organized a flag football scrimmage on vacation with his family, advisors and securiy detail. If the president is quarterback, would anyone blitz? Would anyone sack the quarterback? Nope, not ever. Everybody would say, "great pass Mr President" and the press would say "watch out Tom Brady".

Obama deserves some mad propz for seeking out NBA players that will treat him like any other scrub in a pick-up game, while Bush stacked the field with some slow runners when it came to his daily runs.
posted by peeedro at 5:41 PM on August 26, 2016 [16 favorites]


Eli Stokols; Joni Ernst says she's "excited" to see Trump's immigration plan next week, but right now? "I don't know what it is."

Next week? I think she may have to wait a bit longer. Trump was interviewed today by Kimberly Ann Guilfoyle on FOX and he said "I will be announcing something within the next two weeks, a very comprehensive plan on immigration." Last week he said the plan would be unveiled in Phoenix but now who knows? I imagine Meredith still hasn't finished coming up with a plan yet.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:43 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Teddy Schleifer: Advertising time reserved for the week beginning Tuesday, August 30: Team Clinton: $10.3 million Team Trump: $0

He goes on to point out that the NRA is taking two weeks off. The NRA has been spending $700,000 a week on anti-clinton ads.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:48 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]




This New Mexico lawyer is suing the Senate to force action on Merrick Garland

That could be interesting if it gets to the SCOTUS.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:57 PM on August 26, 2016 [9 favorites]


KTAR (Arizona Radio)
Confusion is a good word to describe Donald Trump’s visit to Arizona next Wednesday.

After confirming the campaign was scouting the Phoenix-area on Tuesday, it was announced on Wednesday that he would be visiting downtown Phoenix next week and the speech would be about immigration.

Later in the evening, the campaign referred to it as a “staff error” to say it would be a policy speech about immigration and that it would be a speech about unity.

Friday, just after 3 p.m. the campaign announced that the Arizona event would not be taking place next week at the Hyatt Regency in downtown Phoenix and that the campaign looks “forward to having another Arizona visit soon.”

Less than two hours later, the Republican presidential nominee himself tweeted that he would indeed be in Phoenix and that the demand for the event was high.
You got that?
1.) Announce Immigration speech in Phoenix
2.) Change that to a speech on Unity
3.) Cancel
4.) No wait-- back on!

Boy who wouldn't want Donald J. Trump to be President. Every day would be a surprise!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:59 PM on August 26, 2016 [36 favorites]


Pence opened the first (and only) Trump Campaign Headquarters in Indiana today. (scroll down to 6:30) It is located in a strip mall near Indianapolis and has 3 paid staffers.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:03 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


You got that?
1.) Announce Immigration speech in Phoenix
2.) Change that to a speech on Unity
3.) Cancel
4.) No wait-- back on!


Former Trump EVP Barbara Res: I can just hear Trump screaming at @KellyannePolls: You fking c-t, you are making me look like an idiot, you're no fking good. Been there
posted by sallybrown at 6:04 PM on August 26, 2016 [33 favorites]


The people on presidential details are squared away, bigly; from thumb wrestling to triathlons, they will beat you every time, no matter what. They are the most competitive people in the most competitive environments, people who will sacrifice anything for a seat at the next big show.

Cite your sources, please.

I see your high expectations and raise you a string of recent Secret Service scandals.
The people surrounding the president are presumably good at their jobs. They are presumably vetted. They're also flawed individuals just like you and I.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:04 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


This rescheduling stuff goes a long way to support Josh Marshall's article about how the Trump campaign effectively does not have a campaign manager at this point. I'm sure other campaigns have reshuffled schedules this late in the game, but the extent to which it seems to be happening is really kind of amazing. It seems really unlikely that they have any sort of plan that goes beyond the next few days with this sort of stuff constantly happening.
posted by feloniousmonk at 6:05 PM on August 26, 2016 [13 favorites]



Former Trump EVP Barbara Res: I can just hear Trump screaming at @KellyannePolls: You fking c-t, you are making me look like an idiot, you're no fking good. Been there


[real]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:06 PM on August 26, 2016 [8 favorites]


One of the many reasons Trump does so poorly with women is how many of us have "been there," and can sense it from a thousand miles away.
posted by sallybrown at 6:09 PM on August 26, 2016 [50 favorites]


At one point, I thought Larry Speakes was the apotheosis of nominative determinism. Now we have Josh Earnest.

[real]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:19 PM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


sallybrown that's why I think there might be a modest "hidden" *anti-Trump* vote among white working-class women who keep their choice secret. Just my little hunch.
posted by spitbull at 6:20 PM on August 26, 2016 [14 favorites]


The people on presidential details are squared away, bigly; from thumb wrestling to triathlons, they will beat you every time, no matter what. They are the most competitive people in the most competitive environments, people who will sacrifice anything for a seat at the next big show.

I've worked with people who were and would be on presidential details (military, not Secret Service), and... well, you do know that Men in Black wasn't a documentary, right? What all those people had in common was that they were very good at their actual jobs, not that they were very good at everything bigly. Yes, most of them would run the average person into the ground. A few of them even had done triathlons. Not all of them.

(And some of them were very good at their actual jobs to the detriment of everything else. The best EOD guy I ever knew -- who has probably worked more White House events than you've had fish tacos -- straight-up pencil-whipped every APFT* in the latter half of his career, and his bosses let him get away with with it because he was that damn good at the part of his job that the White House cared about.)

* -- That means he didn't really do the 2 minutes of push-ups, 2 minutes of sit-ups, and 2-mile run that soldiers are required to do every six months or so, but his commander signed the form saying he did.
posted by Etrigan at 6:20 PM on August 26, 2016 [13 favorites]


They are the most competitive people in the most competitive environments, people who will sacrifice anything for a seat at the next big show.

I see your high expectations and raise you a string of recent Secret Service scandals.


I expect that, if Secret Service agents told Bush (or anyone nearby) that they were having trouble keeping up with him, that really meant, "Of course I can keep up with this guy - he may be fit, but he's not young, and he doesn't have extensive combat training. However, after a few hours of hanging out with him, I may not be fit to catch bad guys if one should happen to show up - so it's time to tap out and let someone who hasn't had a high-energy workout today take over that part of the job."

"Keep up with the president" is code for "be ready to deal with an assassin, a swarm of protestors, or grief-stricken tragedy survivors at a moment's notice." He has to be able to assess whether something is a threat, and if it is, keep the president safe from it; that ability can be compromised long before he has any trouble staying on horseback or hiking through rough terrain.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 6:22 PM on August 26, 2016 [7 favorites]


One of the many reasons Trump does so poorly with women is how many of us have "been there," and can sense it from a thousand miles away.

Yep. My online dating experience makes me think it's a real possibility that, when he loses*, Trump will say "I never wanted to be president anyway. You think you're good enough to have me as president? Ha ha ha! You're way too ugly for me."

*Oh please, oh please, oh please.
posted by mcduff at 6:23 PM on August 26, 2016 [20 favorites]


Pence opened the first (and only) Trump Campaign Headquarters in Indiana today.

I have no love for Pence, but he appears to be doing relatively conventional campaign things and racking up tons of miles: he's got a big VA-GA-NC-FL swing scheduled next week. All of that must either be weird for him if he's aware that there is no actual campaign, or weird for us if he isn't aware.
posted by holgate at 6:24 PM on August 26, 2016 [7 favorites]


If Pence is opening local offices and coordinating with downticket races and the RNC, he might be the campaign.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:29 PM on August 26, 2016 [12 favorites]


Turn on Rachel. Hard evidence of Steve Bannon being an anti-Semite.
posted by spitbull at 6:32 PM on August 26, 2016 [7 favorites]


And to add to the scheduling notes: once September begins, Obama and Biden are going to be doing joint events with Clinton and Kaine. That's what you'd expect from a conventional campaign: August is for organising and registration and good local press and daily messaging, and September is when the big events begin.
posted by holgate at 6:33 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


In 2007 legal battle with his wife (post-divorce wrangling over their kid) he objected to an LA private school his ex wife had chosen for their daughter because "it has too many Jews." There's more there too.

Hasn't hit NBC news website yet.
posted by spitbull at 6:34 PM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


Is it normal for the vice presidential candidate to be opening campaign offices in late August?
posted by kirkaracha at 6:35 PM on August 26, 2016


I think the worst bit in that BuzzFeed article about the alt–right TV show is being passed over:
Last year, BuzzFeed News reported that a gun- and knife-brandishing internet personality named Jace Connors — who became notorious for claiming to crash his car while en route to the home of Brianna Wu, one of the most public victims of Gamergate – was actually the work of a member of MDE named Jan Rankowski, who created the Connors “character” with input from Hyde.
ahahahaha! death threats!

My Dad: So, if South Park is... "problematic", is there an example of a comedy program that is not... "problematic"?

As a former South Park binger who appreciates their approach to comedy in theory and progressively got more revolted by them in practice, I found that It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia is even more politically–focused and definitely blacker in its humor, while remaining pretty fucking excellent at knowing who it ought to direct its humor at. Emily Nussbaum sold me with this article in The New Yorker, particularly with these bits:
This season, in the aftermath of Newtown, the second episode, “Gun Fever Too: Still Hot,” managed to satirize both sides of the gun-control debate in ways that were both funny and insightful, which may be the sitcom equivalent of a perfectly landed quadruple axel at the Olympics. In Season 6, the show also aired television’s most unnerving rape joke, a who’s-on-first dialogue involving the repeated phrase “because of the implication,” a sequence that took as its target the delusional mind-set of the rapist, not the rapee.

This description may make “Always Sunny” sound like some crass, faux-edgy nightmare, like the magazine Vice or Tucker Max. It isn’t. As scurvy as the show’s gags can get, “Always Sunny” is not a nihilistic series—often, it makes actual political points, disguised as acrid satire. Binge-watch episodes, and a gonzo compassion begins to seep up through the filthy surface.
And, elsewhere, Chuck Klosterman compared it to a Seinfeld in which "Everyone involved [...] is hyper-conscious of the cruelty", which I think is relevant.

As a rabid comedy enthusiast, the show genuinely awes me; it feels like it's cracked some sort of sitcom Rosetta Stone, and figured out how to keep itself and its approach to humor effective for over a decade, constantly evolving without losing its focus on the kind of bleakness that I find spawns the most consistently–good comedy. To compare it to Parks and Recreation, another sitcom that was mentioned here/is uniquely relevant to 2016 politics, I found that Parks' humor started feeling depressingly cynical over time, ignoring a lot of its characters' development for the sake of generating new episodic conflicts, and past the first 3.5 seasons that rang more false than true.

And Parks is an unusually good sitcom, IMO! I don't mean to knock it. But It's Always Sunny might be the best sitcom I've ever watched, and I think it's good for the same reasons that South Park, at its best, is really fucking good. It's Always Sunny is just better, smarter, and, in a weird way, lovelier, too.
posted by rorgy at 6:36 PM on August 26, 2016 [20 favorites]


Daily News has it.
posted by spitbull at 6:37 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Court documents from Steve Bannon's divorce: doesn't want his daughters going to school with Jews because they raise their kids to be "whiny brats".
posted by Sophie1 at 6:37 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Maddow has Bannon's divorce...papers, I guess? He's a vile, violent, abusive POS, but guess why he objects to his daughter's school?

If you guessed "anti-semitism," congratulations! Your prize is that you live in 2016.

Yay.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:38 PM on August 26, 2016 [20 favorites]


So, if South Park is... "problematic", is there an example of a comedy program that is not... "problematic"?

I've been continually impressed by Brooklyn Nine-Nine.
posted by you're a kitty! at 6:39 PM on August 26, 2016 [10 favorites]


Is it normal for the vice presidential candidate to be opening campaign offices in late August?

Normal-ish. More normal than anything Trump is doing. Though you'd expect Pence to have had field offices open in Indiana sooner, given that it's his home state and he already had a re-election campaign running when he got the Veep pick that could have been converted into a presidential team.

Anyway, this WaPo [open incog] piece points to the presence of Roger Ailes as a de facto campaign manager and includes this quote:
Trump tends to echo the words of whomever last spoke to him, making direct access to him even more valuable, the people said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to talk about internal campaign discussions.
You don't say.
posted by holgate at 6:41 PM on August 26, 2016 [13 favorites]


Trump needs to ditch Bannon and go with the 12-year-old. What's to lose? He's cute and blond, reporters would look mean if they gave him a hard time, and when things go wrong Trump can always yell at the boy's mother.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:41 PM on August 26, 2016 [21 favorites]


The racism and anti-semitism of the alt-right and Bannon have rightly been getting a lot of play but let's also not forget that the third corner of their tripod of violent hatred is women.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:42 PM on August 26, 2016 [54 favorites]


He has to be able to assess whether something is a threat, and if it is, keep the president safe from it
Not all Secret Service agents are male.
posted by une_heure_pleine at 6:42 PM on August 26, 2016 [18 favorites]


Well, this ex-wife divorced him shortly after he was charged with domestic violence against her. Plus the divorce wrangling sure makes him sound like a bully to her.

So yeah, misogyny.
posted by spitbull at 6:44 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Bannon threatened her and the daughters if she testified against him in the domestic violence case. He was charged with interfering with witness testimony, but she never testified.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:49 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


And for the first time this week Keepin' It 1600 was pissing me of because they were like, "Whyyyyy is Hillary doing a speech about the alt-right? Who is she talking to? What is the point???"

Do they not realize that people who aren't politics nerds or on the internet all the time don't know what the fuck the alt-right is or what it has to do with the Trump campaign? She was trying to get this info onto the 6 o'clock news for those people, because this is kinda important!
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:49 PM on August 26, 2016 [16 favorites]


Or the multi-legged stool of "hatred of anybody not like them", which is less bigotry and more egomania, fitting in perfectly with Dirty Donald.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:51 PM on August 26, 2016


not... "problematic"?

Er, Archer? Duh. At least it's in a wholesome way.
/SterlingArcher

This thing where Trump flies home every night in his 757... that it just one giant middle finger (not that giant) to the environment and environmentalists. The 757 burns about 3 gallons of aviation fuel per mile. Counting warmup/cooldown and gaining altitude, that number is bigger the shorter the distance flown.
posted by porpoise at 6:55 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


I've worked with people who were and would be on presidential details (military, not Secret Service), and...

Same, with same conclusion.
posted by ctmf at 6:58 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Archer tries to walk the ironic racism/homophobia/transphobia/stigmatization and violence towards sex workers line, but I'm not sure they're always successful. Like, there was a whole season long thing where the one regular WOC lady's character'd clothes kept flying off.

It's Always Sunny has done yellow face and blackface. Some people are okay with it because it's all meant to show how terrible the characters are, but for other people those are hard lines that can't be crossed.

Brooklyn 99 comes pretty close, but has had a couple unfortunate episodes that center on OMG FAT!!!!!!!!! nonsense. But I really really really do love Brooklyn 99.
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:01 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


In 2007 legal battle with his wife (post-divorce wrangling over their kid) he objected to an LA private school his ex wife had chosen for their daughter because "it has too many Jews."

~

Bannon threatened her and the daughters if she testified against him in the domestic violence case. He was charged with interfering with witness testimony, but she never testified.


Had enough yet, Paul and Reince?
posted by sallybrown at 7:06 PM on August 26, 2016 [9 favorites]


transphobia

Ah. Right. That was egregiously out of line for Archer, but the joke punched Archer's personal failings rather than with the transgendered girls.
posted by porpoise at 7:07 PM on August 26, 2016


Yeah, I think for those of who are plugged in political junkies, and especially those of us who have been following things like Gamergate, it's hard to realize the extent to which other people are not aware of the alt-right and the rise of white nationalism. Today I had lunch with a coworker, who is actually very knowledgeable about history and well-read. He's also a strong Democrat and hates Trump. But he really didn't know much about Breitbart. I just showed him that list of Breitbart headlines from Media Matters and he just kept shaking his head, and saying wow as he made his way down the page. He thought it was absolutely disgusting and had no idea it was that bad. He agreed also that the media had a duty to shine a light in these dark corners of the Internet so everyone could see what they were getting into with a vote for Trump.
posted by peacheater at 7:10 PM on August 26, 2016 [17 favorites]


Had enough yet, Paul and Reince?

"We aren't familiar with what you're talking about. We can't comment until we learn more."
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:12 PM on August 26, 2016 [15 favorites]


The Chuck Todd thing upthread was fairly infuriating, but Justinian's commen made me think it had been misread or something.

If the link is the right one it wasn't MSNBC, It was NBC's Today show. And Chuck totally barfed up the talking point that BOTH HC and Das Trump were "in a race to the bottom", which is really disheartening at least and borderline criminal to me. I dont know much about him that I didn't see on TDS or read here but he *knows* better.

He's deliberately reciting a disgusting "both sides" narrative for the ridiculous table of four of the whitest news twinkies to ever white to pretend discuss.

Srsly u guys i think they want to burn down everything. They are not this stupid, they're this craven.

Not that I'd recommend them for any reason, but still. Anecdata indicates their clear-eyed take would be helpful.
posted by petebest at 7:14 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Had enough yet, Paul and Reince?

Nope. They still have power.
posted by petebest at 7:16 PM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


If the link is the right one it wasn't MSNBC, It was NBC's Today show.

No, this was Meet The Press Daily, which aired today on MSNBC between 5pm and 6pm Eastern.
posted by cashman at 7:20 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Here is the MTP Daily clip. 8:22 video.
posted by cashman at 7:22 PM on August 26, 2016


5:15 in the video:
Todd: If you didn't know the polling numbers that you've seen over the last month...as we know there does seem to have been a shift in Clinton's favor. But if you didn't know it, and you walked away from your focus group, who would you say of the two candidates had a better shot at winning this election?

Pollster Peter Hart: Who has the better hand? Donald Trump. And I say that as a democratic pollster. And what I'm saying is essentially they look at him and think he's crazy, he's off the board, et cetera. But if he had a sane month, which is probably impossible, he would get a full listen from these voters.
It goes on further, but boils down to that. Looking back at zutalors! comment:
Now Chuck Todd is asking his pollster guest to "ignore the polls and say who seems like they might win."

"Trump, I'm sorry to say as a Democratic pollster"
It tracks pretty well. Especially since the focus group was 12 people, 11 of them were white, and there wasn't a single non-white woman in it. The pollster's point was belied by his own "it's impossible" statement, but ultimately boiled down to if Trump stops being Trump, voters might listen. But there are so many things to unpack there, from the history, rightfully pointed out by Hillary Clinton a day ago, to the people Trump is associating with.

Really it's bordering on incompetence that Todd didn't immediately question why Trump would be getting multiple chances given his history, and a discussion of white male privilege should have immediately ensued. It's so far past time for people in the news media to stop the "Well he just keeps getting chances from voters right? So odd! And now, here's Tom with the weather". We know it's white male privilege. So all those times you agree with guests about how we need to have this national conversation on race, but you skip by the time when you should be having it? You're doing it wrong.
posted by cashman at 7:38 PM on August 26, 2016 [26 favorites]


if you didn't know it, and you walked away from your focus group, who would you say of the two candidates had a better shot at winning this election?

Aren't focus groups made up of undecided voters? And hasn't there been polling to suggest that actually there are a fuckload of decided voters -- more so than usual -- and the job of campaigns is not to convert the snowflakes but to get the decided voters to the polls?

Self-declared "undecided voters" who'll volunteer for focus groups are idiots with a massively exaggerated sense of self-worth at the best of times, and they're even worse in 2016.
posted by holgate at 7:46 PM on August 26, 2016 [17 favorites]


Thanks cashman, that does explain it.

So Chuck tips his hand to HC with his questions and tone, but is perfectly willing to help throw her under the bus for another couple of months to dig a bag of clicks out of it.

He *says* as much with, (paraphrasing) "People love a horse race" and "People say they dont like negative ads but they work". "People click when outrageous things happen"(And don't click when HC has the votes and the high ground for as far as the trail goes.)

And wtf, "Democratic pollster" Peter Hart, with "I'd bet money it's not going to be a blowout. . . It may be an electoral blowout but the percentages are gonna be. . . "

Stop. Shut. TheF**k. Up. It's a game to them, and we should be so far past that.
posted by petebest at 7:53 PM on August 26, 2016 [9 favorites]


I'm really glad people are as pissed about the chuck Todd thing as I was. Infuriating.
posted by zutalors! at 8:10 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Advertisers love it when outrageous things happen. Account men love a horse race. Most people hate those things. They're assuming loud statement = important and discounting 95% of people who read the horserace headline and then roll their eyes and ignore it and move on.

It's confirmation bias towards those most likely to click on a "scandalous" story. They think a lot more people care because the people influenced by those things click more. Everyone sick of the garbage avoids them altogether.
posted by downtohisturtles at 8:10 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Huh what the hell. I must have filled in the more reasonable explanation for what was going on since I was only paying half attention. Sorry!
posted by Justinian at 8:14 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Wow he's a peach:
He said that he doesn't like the way they raise their kids to be 'whiny brats' and that he didn't want the girls going to school with Jews," Piccard wrote.

"I told him that there are children who are Jewish at (a competing school), and he asked me what the percentage was. I told him that I didn't know because it wasn't an issue for me as I am not raising the girls to be either anti-Semitic or prejudiced against anyone," she wrote.

Bannon asked his ex-wife if it bothered her that a second school, the Willows Community School, used to be a Temple.

And while checking out yet another school, Bannon asked the director during a sit down why there were “so many Chanukah books in the library.”


Hey Chuck Todd, this is exactly like that time Hillary ate a cookie! Whats up with these two campaigns?!

The criminal attorney threatened me, indicating that if Respondent went to jail, I would have no money and no way to support the children," Piccard wrote.

She said Bannon told her to leave town so she couldn't be served in the case or testify against him.

"I was told that I could go anywhere in the world. His attorney, along with respondent, arranged for me to leave town until the trial was over and it was okay for me to return home. I left town for two weeks with the children and was an hour and a half away by car until the attorney phoned me and told me I could come back," she wrote.


Equivalent that, "newsman".
posted by petebest at 8:20 PM on August 26, 2016 [31 favorites]


*shifty eyes*

Metafilter: idiots with a massively exaggerated sense of self-worth at the best of times, and they're even worse in 2016

*shifty eyes*
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:24 PM on August 26, 2016 [7 favorites]


> Trump Doctor Wrote Health Letter in Just 5 Minutes as Limo Waited

This was hours ago, and I was sleeping (like Hillary!) but I loved this part of the story:
"If elected, Mr. Trump, I can state unequivocally, will be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency," Bornstein wrote.

Asked how he could justify the hyperbole, Bornstein said, "I like that sentence to be quite honest with you and all the rest of them are either sick or dead."
So he's comparing Trump's current health against the current health of all past and present US presidents, living or dead.
posted by mochapickle at 8:25 PM on August 26, 2016 [23 favorites]


That campaign is all about projection, though. If he's a zombie that would maybe explain some things.
posted by teponaztli at 8:28 PM on August 26, 2016


Yeah somehow Trump is healthier than Barack Obama, who has the BMI of 22 year old runner and goes one one one with actual NBA players.
posted by spitbull at 8:31 PM on August 26, 2016 [10 favorites]


Atom Eyes, here’s what Chuck Todd thinks of your recent comments.
posted by blueberry at 8:31 PM on August 26, 2016


After some raised questions online about the security of Bornstein's older Windows operating system seen in the interview, his wife who works in the office said Windows XP is not used for patient records and "we have no medical records online."

Well why did she specify that they don't use Windows XP for patient records when they could've just said "yeah we're old school, we don't have EMR."?

again, just askin' questions.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:32 PM on August 26, 2016


Yeah somehow Trump is healthier than Barack Obama, who has the BMI of 22 year old runner and goes one one one with actual NBA players.

Plus he tirelessly works toward the glorious communist dystopia while also going on vacation 53 weeks a year
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:34 PM on August 26, 2016 [21 favorites]


> comparing Trump's current health against the current health of all past and present US presidents, living or dead

...in aggregate.
posted by porpoise at 8:37 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Also:
The doctor said he would not normally use such over-the-top language in a letter for a patient but he made an exception for Trump — who just two weeks before had tweeted that the doctor's assessment would show "perfection."

"I think I picked up his kind of language and then just interpreted it to my own," Bornstein said.
Which is kind of terrifying if Trump wins and doctors follow suit, interpreting each patient's language into their own medical records. For me, my medical records translated as such would be an unreadable litany of "Uh" and "I guess" and "Hoo boy" and question marks.
posted by mochapickle at 8:38 PM on August 26, 2016 [28 favorites]


[If T]rump wins we will have to eat white bread and mayonnaise for breakfast.

See, THIS is the type of feels-true soundbite bullshit propaganda the left should be using to counter your racist uncle's "Democrats want to tax church picnics so that your kids can be taught sharia law" nonsense.

"If Trump wins rhythm and flavor will be illegal."

"If Trump wins hip-hop stations will be forced to play country."

"If Trump wins all food items over 100 Scoville units will be banned."

etc.
posted by Freelance Demiurge at 8:41 PM on August 26, 2016 [21 favorites]


Obama is the most obvious candidate for living president/ex-pres healthier than Trump, but Trump is also slightly older than both W and Bill.
posted by snofoam at 8:41 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


I was rereading "Guards! Guards!" and this passage was just too spot not to share (sorry it's a bit long, I did cut it up a bit). I think Trump himself may not have as much brains as the Supreme Grand Master, but he together with his people work in that role as kind of amalgamation. This takes place near the beginning of the book (no spoilers - everyone who hasn't read it should read it! If you have read it, you should probably re-read it! It's so funny and so great).

It's got everything, the manipulation of petty resentments, the made-up accusations of corruption, even a pretty great elucidation of a dog whistle...

What a shower, [the Supreme Grand Master] told himself. A bunch of incompetents no other secret society would touch with a ten-foot Scepter of Authority. The sort to dislocate their fingers with even the simplest secret handshake.

But incompetent with possibilities, nevertheless. Let the other societies take the skilled, the hopefuls, the ambitious, the self-confident. He’d take the whining resentful ones, the ones with a bellyful of spite and bile, the ones who knew they could make it big if only they’d been given the chance. Give him the ones in which the floods of venom and vindictiveness were dammed up behind thin walls of ineptitude and low-grade paranoia.

“Brethren,” he said. “Tonight we have matters of profound importance to discuss. The good governance, nay, the very future of Ankh-Morpork lies in our hands.”

They leaned closer. The Supreme Grand Master felt the beginnings of the old thrill of power. They were hanging on his words. This was a feeling worth dressing up in bloody silly robes for.

“Do we not well know that this city is in thrall to corrupt men, who wax fat on their ill-gotten gains, while better men are held back and forced into virtual servitude?”
...
“Yet it was not always thus,” the Supreme Grand Master continued. “There was once a golden age, when those worthy of command and respect were justly rewarded. An age when Ankh-Morpork wasn’t simply a big city but a great one. An age of chivalry. An age when—yes, Brother Watchtower?”

A bulky robed figure lowered its hand. “Are you talking about when we had kings?”

“Well done, Brother,” said the Supreme Grand Master ...

“It was you talking about chivalry that give me the clue,” said Brother Watchtower.”
….

“I dunno that the Patrician is a threat, exactly,” [Brother Watchtower] said. “He’s not your usual tyrant, as such. Not as bad as some we’ve had. I mean, he doesn’t actually oppress.”

“I get oppressed all the time,” said Brother Doorkeeper. “Master Critchley, where I work, he oppresses me morning, noon and night, shouting at me and everything. And the woman in the vegetable shop, she oppresses me all the time.”

“That’s right,” said Brother Plasterer. “My landlord oppresses me something wicked. Banging on the door and going on and on about all the rent I allegedly owe, which is a total lie. And the people next door oppress me all night long. I tell them, I work all day, a man’s got to have some time to learn to play the tuba. That’s oppression, that is. If I’m not under the heel of the oppressor, I don’t know who is.”

“Put like that—“ said Brother Watchtower slowly—“I reckon my brother-in-law is oppressing me all the time with having this new horse and buggy he’s been and bought. I haven’t got one. I mean, where’s the justice in that? I bet a a king wouldn’t let that sort of oppression go on, people’s wives oppressing ‘em with why they haven’t got a new coach like our Rodney and that.”

The Supreme Grand Master listened to this with a slightly lightheaded feeling. It was as if he’d known that there such things as avalanches, but had never dreamed when he dropped the little snowball on top of the mountain that it could lead to such astonishing results. He was barely having to egg them on at all.

“I bet a king’d have something to say about landlords,” said Brother Plasterer.

“And he’d outlaw people with showy coaches,” said Brother Watchtower. “Probably bought with stolen money, too, I reckon.”

“I think, said the Supreme Grand Master, tweaking things a little, “that a wise king would only, as it were, outlaw showy coaches for the underserving.”

There was a thoughtful pause in the conversation as the assembled Brethren mentally divided the universe into the deserving and the underserving, and put themselves on the appropriate side.


I think Pratchett (may his memory be a blessing) really captured the soul of the modern republican party. There's nothing new under the sun...
posted by Salamandrous at 8:45 PM on August 26, 2016 [35 favorites]


Hey Chuck Todd, this is exactly like that time Hillary ate a cookie! Whats up with these two campaigns?!

I wish you were writing this on his twitter page. Or his face.
posted by bongo_x at 8:46 PM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


So, if South Park is... "problematic", is there an example of a comedy program that is not... "problematic"?

Silicon Valley. Binge watch it now.
posted by msalt at 8:46 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


The Trump campaign is increasingly indistinguishable from mad libs generated by an eight-year-old.

"When Trump wins the Presidency, the adjective will verb all of the nouns on the adjective adverb and article article subjunctive apples square root of 63 hockey."

I can't remember what this comment is in response to, let's just go with "all of them".
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:52 PM on August 26, 2016 [10 favorites]


Does that mean Trump is a Round or a Pointy?
posted by erisfree at 8:53 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]




Does that mean Trump is a Round or a Pointy?

roundest person ever
posted by sallybrown at 8:55 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Lumpy. Why do people keep discriminating against us Lumpies?
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:56 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Seen on DailyKos: "Trump's doctor looks like a roadie for Foghat."
posted by spitbull at 8:57 PM on August 26, 2016 [14 favorites]


Do we really have to keep commenting on his appearance? Based on the letter and the interview, there's so much other stuff we can go after.
posted by mochapickle at 9:02 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


His appearance is what wil make media and voters run with this. He looks fine, for an old hippie dude.
posted by spitbull at 9:09 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think it's more his body language / vibe than his appearance.
posted by sallybrown at 9:11 PM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


"Trump surrogate, Gov. Paul LePage: "The enemy right now...are people of color.""

African-American outreach at its finest.
posted by chris24 at 9:18 PM on August 26, 2016 [19 favorites]


It's riding a fine line. I get uneasy anytime anyone starts going into "he looks like the thing I think is the bad thing so he's the bad thing" territory. And I'm fully on board with the laughable reasons for mocking/joking/considering this fool a worthy criticism. But anytime it's based on physical appearance I get uncomfortable. There are plenty of jokes/witticisms/comments to be had based on the news itself and Trump's health claims. But when it veers into "he's funny looking so fuck 'em" territory we should all be searching for a better criticism.
posted by downtohisturtles at 9:22 PM on August 26, 2016 [8 favorites]


>Does that mean Trump is a Round or a Pointy?

As described in Flatland, Trump has so many exterior points he is often mistaken for a circle.
posted by infinitewindow at 9:33 PM on August 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


But when it veers into "he's funny looking so fuck 'em" territory we should all be searching for a better criticism.

Is that what people are saying? I think it's more that it's a little surprising the doctor for someone claiming to be one of the richest men in the world and wanting to be president, the person vouching for his health, looks like a roadie for Foghat. Appearances really do mean something sometimes, no matter how vehemently some insist they shouldn't.
posted by bongo_x at 9:35 PM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


chris24, that tweet was deleted but here's the video.
posted by guiseroom at 9:35 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'll just say he looks like any number of friends of mine. The thing is that he doesn't look anything like the sort of fellow you'd think would be a billionaire's personal physician , or even a run of the mill staff GE at Lenox Hill hospital. So he seems eccentric. And he appears to be addled and not a very serious clinician based on his letter and affect in this interview. And that fits the larger narrative of WTF-ness that touches most of Trump's associates.

It's not that his appearance deserves mockery. It's that it fits a pattern of anomaly so stark that you think "he has to be putting us on."

He's not a great doc. Other people would know about him if he was. His office is shabby and his equipment old. His English is weakly literate. His letterhead features his dead father's name and a gmail address (never ever found on MD stationery). He runs Windows XP. And he looks like a roadie for Foghat in a lab coat.

So the whole thing seems like a knowing con. Like so much else about Trump. So off that you wonder who they think they're fooling, like Melania plagiarizing a speech or so many other things about this campaign.
posted by spitbull at 9:36 PM on August 26, 2016 [32 favorites]


> If she wins the presidency, Clinton would likely enjoy the shortest honeymoon period of any incoming commander-in-chief in recent history, according to Washington strategists, confronting major roadblocks to enacting her ambitious agenda, as well as Republican attacks that have been muted courtesy of the GOP nominee.

Republicans Are Already Planning How to Ruin a Hillary Clinton Presidency.
posted by homunculus at 9:40 PM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


MetaFilter: Equivalent that, "newsman".
posted by seyirci at 9:43 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump's doctor can't even be trusted to hang a picture straight.

(And why does he have a sketch of Barry Gibb on the wall?)
posted by dirigibleman at 9:47 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Republicans Are Already Planning How to Ruin a Hillary Clinton Presidency.

Best laid plans get their fucking lungs ripped out in the midterms.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:58 PM on August 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


the whole thing seems like a knowing con.

If I became ill on a plane and Doctor The Dude was my only hope, I'd probably be taken out in a body bag.
posted by holgate at 9:58 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


The Dude prescribes.
posted by Devonian at 10:17 PM on August 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


Change of pace: Cartoons drawn by Mike Pence in Law School. He's no Berkeley Breathed, but he could've done far less damage as a syndicated cartoonist than as a politician...
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:25 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Rich people in NYC see fancy concierge MDs for primary care. Those MDs do not work for North Shore-LIJ, they don't take insurance (Bornstein does), and they have elegant offices and fancy technology and treat more than one wealthy patient. They are scrupulous with the privacy of their patients and their own reputations.

This is not that.
posted by spitbull at 10:40 PM on August 26, 2016 [19 favorites]


Barry Gibb on the wall

Barry Gibb In The Wall.
posted by homunculus at 10:41 PM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Yeah, right? Seems like he'd use a private, fancy concierge MD since he's in that echelon.

The whole thing makes me wonder if Trump doesn't have a doctor at all -- that he'd seen Bornstein senior years before for some sort of gut issue and hadn't been back since.
posted by mochapickle at 10:43 PM on August 26, 2016 [8 favorites]


Yeah, it seems to me that if you are a person of means—a person who can afford a pretty high quality physician—that the only reason this guy is your doctor is because you don’t want to hear the truth; that you pay him so you can live a fantasy, to have him tell you that everything is all hunky-dory health-wise.
posted by blueberry at 11:12 PM on August 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


Republicans Are Already Planning How to Ruin a Hillary Clinton Presidency.

O RLY?

The Republicans have been planning how to ruin a Hillary Clinton any-office for decades. The Republicans have abandoned the idea of any kind of loyal opposition in favor of ruining the opposition presidency generically for probably about as long.

Of course they're plotting to ruin a Clinton Presidency. Of course it doesn't matter that she's leaps and bounds more competent than anyone they could possibly have fielded. Of course it doesn't matter that she could probably do their policies better than they can, that if they could pull their heads out of the ass-impacted state they've made good and sure they can't get out of that she'd probably help them accomplish policy goals that Reagan would have endorsed.

This is a given. Republicans have made sure that they built the party so that it's incapable of making a sincere effort into negotiating policy or governing effectively with the opposition, no matter how good that might be for the country, and this will not change without a baptism of fire.
posted by wildblueyonder at 11:22 PM on August 26, 2016 [19 favorites]


Yeah, it seems to me that if you are a person of means—a person who can afford a pretty high quality physician—that the only reason this guy is your doctor is because you don’t want to hear the truth;

I can think of other reasons.
posted by bongo_x at 11:29 PM on August 26, 2016 [14 favorites]


You know, if you stop to think about it, a lot of things Trump says just don't add up.
posted by mazola at 11:33 PM on August 26, 2016 [40 favorites]


Trump's doctor looks like the kind of medical practitioner who:
1. Has a lot of wealthy clients
2. Has a consultation consisting of little more than 'How's the family'
3. Has 3 month Vicodin prescriptions pre-printed and ready to sign.
posted by PenDevil at 11:48 PM on August 26, 2016 [33 favorites]


My Dad: "So, if South Park is... 'problematic', is there an example of a comedy program that is not... 'problematic'?"

Well, since we had a discussion about problematic comedy in relation to the campaign here, it is probably a propos to point this out:

A few hours ago Tim Heidecker, of TIM AND ERIC AWESOME SHOW &C fame, posted this song to his Soundcloud account. It's a song called "I Am A Cuck," set to the tune of Simon & Garfunkel's "I Am A Rock." It's... pitch-perfect, to the point where I didn't see his name on it and fully believed some Pepe-posting dolt had created it. Tim really committed to this thing. Which... I guess, yeah, seems kind of problematic, if only in the sense that I find it intriguing but also never want to hear it again.
posted by koeselitz at 11:57 PM on August 26, 2016 [7 favorites]


If comedy is any good it's going to be somewhat problematic. South Park just sucks.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:00 AM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


No disagreement there. I just thought "I Am A Cuck" was kind of amazing.
posted by koeselitz at 12:00 AM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


(I'm somewhat tempted to posted it on r/The_Donald, which I confess I read almost daily now just for the sheer perverse entertainment of it. I wonder how they'd take such an expert parroting of their jargon back at them.)
posted by koeselitz at 12:04 AM on August 27, 2016


My parents were asking me to explain Alt-Right to them yesterday.

I honestly don't think I have it in me to explain cuckservatism to them.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:10 AM on August 27, 2016 [10 favorites]


I just assumed Trump's doctor was Dr. Nick Riviera.
posted by guiseroom at 12:19 AM on August 27, 2016 [5 favorites]


Metafilter: looks like a roadie for Foghat in a lab coat
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 12:56 AM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


From Bloomberg News, emphasis mine:
A year ago, Pew found 46 percent supported fencing the Mexican border and 48 percent opposed it. In the survey released this week, Pew uses the term "wall" -- Trump's lingo -- instead of "fence." The numbers are devastating for him, with 36 percent supporting a wall and 61 percent opposed. Trump is not winning converts. If anything, his campaign is helping to discredit his positions.
As an aside, I have to wonder--does no one in favor of walls OR fences realize that there is a pretty easy way to defeat such a barrier? Go under, man.
posted by xyzzy at 1:45 AM on August 27, 2016 [10 favorites]


Mod note: Folks, let's drop the extended South Park/other comedies sidebar, please. My Dad can use Ask Metafilter if he needs recommendations.
posted by taz (staff) at 1:58 AM on August 27, 2016 [12 favorites]


Speaking of the comic pages (as I did a few hours ago), several syndicated comics have broken their usual rules to avoid political controversy this year, usually because Donald has so much comedic potential, but only "Ziggy" would make an exception for Hillary.

Elsewhere, GoComics also runs reruns of comic strips long ago cancelled, so here's an accidentally topical one of "Bo Nanas" from 2005... "five birds named Steve".
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:17 AM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


I can think of other reasons.

A bottomless fountain of Adderall or dexedrine prescriptions comes to mind.
posted by Justinian at 3:58 AM on August 27, 2016 [10 favorites]


Doesn't even have to be mood altering I can imagine DJT diagnosing himself with stuff and writing scrips for antibiotics whenever he gets a cold or whatever.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:19 AM on August 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


Republicans Are Already Planning How to Ruin a Hillary Clinton Presidency

I get it that this is likely. McConnell is a turd of the truest form and will repeat what he did 8 years ago. At the same time, I believe he would do the same no matter who is elected.

What a miserable piece of shit fuck he is. I sure do hope I outlive that termite so I can enjoy a few years of my final days knowing that insect is not around.
posted by lampshade at 4:32 AM on August 27, 2016 [7 favorites]


Hey, like the president said, if you like your Foghat roadie doctor, you can keep your Foghat roadie doctor!

Yo, true story: in the mid-80s I used to deliver cases of vodka to Foghat, the remaining members of which all lived in a single Cambridge MA apartment drinking themselves into a stupor and going out on a bus to play county fairs and crappy bars once in a while.
posted by spitbull at 5:01 AM on August 27, 2016 [14 favorites]


Republicans Are Already Planning How to Ruin a Hillary Clinton Presidency.

This is a part of their playbook, but I trust that President HRC, the coalition builder, the despised candidate but beloved senator and Secretary of State, will get the job done.
posted by Emmy Noether at 5:59 AM on August 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


Trump's doctor strikes me as a guy who has spent a night in jail over an actual misunderstanding.
posted by Etrigan at 6:41 AM on August 27, 2016 [12 favorites]


Maine gov.: “Look, a bad guy is a bad guy, I don’t care what color it is. When you go to war, if you know the enemy, the enemy dresses in red and you dress in blue, you shoot at red, don’t you?” he said at a press conference about suspected racial profiling by police, the Huffington Post reported.

“You shoot at the enemy. You try to identify the enemy. And the enemy right now, the overwhelming majority right now coming in are people of color or people of Hispanic origin. I can’t help that. I just can’t help it. Those are the facts.”


If, for the sake of argument, we allow the basic premise that people who are arrested are mostly PoC, how can we discuss the myriad contributing factors which are overwhelmingly damning of a "rigged" system that fails our families at most, if not all, levels?

Il Cheeto can't decide if he has a policy, much less defend it cogently. It'd be an administration of sheer anarchy and Russian mobsters. It'd make Cheney's crimes seem quaint.

If Chuck Todd (metaphorically) doesn't do his Chuck Todd job as a member of a free press, not a puppet dolt, it's three more months of not only naked racist idiocy but a major lost opportunity to address it.
posted by petebest at 6:41 AM on August 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


See, THIS is the type of feels-true soundbite bullshit propaganda the left should be using to counter your racist uncle's "Democrats want to tax church picnics so that your kids can be taught sharia law" nonsense.

"If Trump wins rhythm and flavor will be illegal."

"If Trump wins hip-hop stations will be forced to play country."

"If Trump wins all food items over 100 Scoville units will be banned."


Since we know Hillary got hot sauce in her bag, swag I now have a fantasy in which Hillary goes after Trump for only eating bland food like "taco bowls" and KFC, he takes this as a threat to his masculinity, goes on Jimmy Kimmel to chug a bottle of ghost pepper sauce, his head *literally* explodes and the world is saved.
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 6:42 AM on August 27, 2016 [16 favorites]


Tl;dr: *DVRs Joy Reid, hopes*
posted by petebest at 6:43 AM on August 27, 2016


WfPI, that hot sauce article is great. Won't some enerprising company make a good* hot sauce with the H-> logo?

Mild: A Vast Chicken-Wing Conspiracy
Hot: History 2016
Inferno: Vagenda Manocide

*Actually tasty, that people would like
posted by petebest at 6:52 AM on August 27, 2016 [27 favorites]


“Look, a bad guy is a bad guy, I don’t care what color it is. When you go to war, if you know the enemy, the enemy dresses in red and you dress in blue, you shoot at red, don’t you?”

I don't know what's more disturbing, the colors representing LA gang warfare or the colors representing political parties.
posted by Talez at 6:54 AM on August 27, 2016 [3 favorites]




What a god damned ghoul.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:00 AM on August 27, 2016 [58 favorites]


Holy fucking douchebag.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:02 AM on August 27, 2016 [22 favorites]


On a lighter note, custom label hot sauce places appear to abound.
posted by petebest at 7:05 AM on August 27, 2016


And I think back to Obama singing Amazing Grace...
posted by Devonian at 7:05 AM on August 27, 2016 [8 favorites]


This man is just an awful awful person. Seriously, my head hurts that he still has a non-negligible chance of becoming the President.
posted by peacheater at 7:05 AM on August 27, 2016 [13 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump Dwayne Wade's cousin was just shot and killed walking her baby in Chicago. Just what I have been saying. African-Americans will VOTE TRUMP!

You fucking idiot it's Dwyane Wade. LEARN TO SPELL! SAD!
posted by Talez at 7:15 AM on August 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


It's the same thing as Hillary tweeting about Women's Equality Day! Chuck Todd help us make sense of this crazy race to the bottom!

Ooohhh . . race to the bottom . . .wow Chuck that's pretty Cheney. Ari Fleischer on line 2
posted by petebest at 7:16 AM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


As an aside, I have to wonder--does no one in favor of walls OR fences realize that there is a pretty easy way to defeat such a barrier? Go under, man.
Michael Braun, the former chief of operations for the D.E.A., told me a story about the construction of a high-tech fence along a stretch of border in Arizona. “They erect this fence,” he said, “only to go out there a few days later and discover that these guys have a catapult, and they’re flinging hundred-pound bales of marijuana over to the other side.” He paused and looked at me for a second. “A catapult,” he repeated. “We’ve got the best fence money can buy, and they counter us with a 2,500-year-old technology.”
Caution: may not work so well for people.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:16 AM on August 27, 2016 [30 favorites]


Wow, that tweet is the most offensive thing that I've read in years. What the hell?
posted by octothorpe at 7:29 AM on August 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


Donald Trump, you know you done fucked up, right?

Here's DWade's twitter page. He hasn't responded yet. Other twitter pages to watch - Melo's, Lebron's, and CP3's.
posted by cashman at 7:39 AM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


"Wow, that tweet is the most offensive thing that I've read in years."

I've seen things far more offensive but only from people that are, you know, trying.
posted by komara at 7:44 AM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


Holy shit, what an utterly horrifying jackass.
posted by Artw at 7:48 AM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


This Dwyane Wade tweet is absolutely disgusting and I'm seeing it cause a real fever pitch of outrage on my very sports/NBA-focused timeline. Trump may have just kicked a hornet's nest by horrifying a bunch of players and fans who are liberal but until this point were not speaking out about this election. This is like the Pulse congrats tweet oh except D-Wade is a beloved national figure known by millions. In terms of media, it will be competing with the Kaepernick anthem story, but:

@nycsouthpaw
A Trump outrage that ESPN and sports radio will cover may have more impact than a run-of-the-mill daily Trump outrage.

posted by acidic at 7:48 AM on August 27, 2016 [15 favorites]


I... He tweeted...

I hadn't known who Dwayne Wade was. I'm very sorry about his cousin; that's awful, plain and simple.

Can we please stop calling certain people "Cheetos" because Cheetos are tasty and crunchy when fresh and have a sense of decency, comparatively speaking.
posted by seyirci at 7:49 AM on August 27, 2016 [14 favorites]


Cheetos are disgusting and make me gag. Like Trump.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:55 AM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Can we please stop calling certain people "Cheetos" because Cheetos are tasty and crunchy when fresh and have a sense of decency, comparatively speaking.

But Trump is just like a Cheeto. He's orange, he's made from large volumes of hot air and when you get his orange cheeto dust on your hands it NEVER comes off.
posted by Talez at 7:55 AM on August 27, 2016 [8 favorites]


Fair enough. I'm sticking to dumpster fire though.

(And I missed the edit window and my autocorrect "fixing" the name Dwyane too. Gah. Sorry.)
posted by seyirci at 7:58 AM on August 27, 2016


> Caution: may not work so well for people.

Parachutes.
posted by porpoise at 8:00 AM on August 27, 2016




Also, Trump is dangerously cheesy.
posted by knuckle tattoos at 8:14 AM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


Sure, there are ways over, under, and around walls...
East Germans successfully defected by a variety of methods: digging long tunnels under the Wall, waiting for favorable winds and taking a hot air balloon, sliding along aerial wires, flying ultralights and, in one instance, simply driving a sports car at full speed through the basic, initial fortifications. When a metal beam was placed at checkpoints to prevent this kind of defection, up to four people (two in the front seats and possibly two in the boot) drove under the bar in a sports car that had been modified to allow the roof and windscreen to come away when it made contact with the beam. They lay flat and kept driving forward. The East Germans then built zig-zagging roads at checkpoints. The sewer system predated the Wall, and some people escaped through the sewers, in a number of cases with assistance from the Unternehmen Reisebüro.
But that same article says "A historic research group at the Center for Contemporary Historical Research (ZZF) in Potsdam has confirmed 136 deaths." And that guards had orders to shoot at would be crossers, and to leave the to die if they were injured in tge attempt. That is the kind of violence that goes with a wall.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:16 AM on August 27, 2016 [22 favorites]


Hell in the Chisos mountains you could probably do fun wall-hopping in a wingsuit (if it were even possible to build a wall up there, which I doubt). That is some rugged-ass and steep terrain that would be extremely expensive to build on even if it were theoretically possible. I wonder how many "build the wall!" types have any idea that "the border" is not just a flatland desert.

Plus Javelinas have dual citizenship. And they can dig under anything.
posted by spitbull at 8:23 AM on August 27, 2016 [10 favorites]


Sure, there are ways over, under, and around walls...

plus you know thousands of miles of coastline and thousands of miles of undefended border to the north
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:24 AM on August 27, 2016 [5 favorites]


I was talking to my father on law last night-a lifelong democrat who had lived in hard R country for a long time. His trick to keep people from stealing his yard signs is to really drive then deep into the ground and then coat the legs heavily in axel grease. I reproduce this top tip here for you all to use as you see fit.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:28 AM on August 27, 2016 [32 favorites]


I wonder how many "build the wall!" types have any idea that "the border" is not just a flatland desert.

Or runs down the middle of a river. But yeah, the idea of building a wall somewhere right through Big Bend is grounded in ignorance.
posted by holgate at 8:37 AM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Came across this bit of brilliance this morning w/rt Trump's doctor Bornstein. I hadn't realized he looked quite so much like Brent Spiner...
posted by suelac at 8:46 AM on August 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


So this probably isn't the best time to ask, but does this mean Trump has his phone back?
posted by Yowser at 8:48 AM on August 27, 2016


"Build a wall" is simple to understand.
"It won't work because..." isn't.

You have to find a "No wall" narrative that's simple and emotive.

Which is hard. as "being nice to people works better for everyone, including you" is also too complex, and I struggle to boil it down further.

(Also - if Doctor B was Obama's physician, we'd all be 'that's so cool'... it is, however, impossible to imagine him as HRC's personal medic.)
posted by Devonian at 8:49 AM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Strict Father.
posted by petebest at 8:54 AM on August 27, 2016


plus you know thousands of miles of coastline and thousands of miles of undefended border to the north

Yeah, that horrible northern border
posted by nubs at 8:56 AM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]




does this mean Trump has his phone back?

All the tweets this morning have been from Android. So it's his stubby fingers.
posted by chris24 at 9:07 AM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


You have to find a "No wall" narrative that's simple and emotive.


I keep seeing interviews with Trump supporters that say "we know there won't actually be a wall, but we like what he's saying." So I don't think it's a matter of convincing people it's a bad idea. It's just indulging a power fantasy for them. So all attempts to talk about it like an actual tangible issue are going to fail.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:08 AM on August 27, 2016 [19 favorites]


Grauniad:
The [casino billionaire Sheldon Adelson], who one friend said has been “irked by a lot of things”, had already met Trump privately at least twice this year. He has pushed for the candidate to visit Israel, which has not happened, and supported former House speaker Newt Gingrich for vice-president. Trump chose the governor of Indiana, Mike Pence.

Earlier this summer, Adelson endorsed Trump, reportedly signaling that he was willing to spend up to $100m on the presidential contest. To date, however, he has not given money to any Super Pac. Three fundraising sources with good ties to Adelson said he is focused on trying to keep control of Congress, though he could donate to Trump if his gaffes are eliminated and his poll numbers improve.
Turned off by Trump: Republican mega-donors focus on congressional races
posted by Mister Bijou at 9:11 AM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Just when I think I've accepted this reality and he does something (Wade tweet) and I have to sit here and again ponder just how someone so freakin stupid has gotten to where he is. Crass, horrible and all those things but also just plain stupid. Like I'm sure he thought to himself something along, "OMG self, this tweet is brilliant. I am brilliant and this will show those black folks how brilliant and awesome I am. It will make them see the light finally!!" And he typed it and hit post with such a sense of smug satisfaction.

And now his stupid brain is going to make up something even more stupid to explain away the reaction to it.
posted by Jalliah at 9:16 AM on August 27, 2016 [8 favorites]


MSNBC really trying to push the narrative that "both sides" are trying to mudsling, are unpopular, and this will affect turnout.

This is why the "unfavorables" thing really bothers me. It doesn't mean anything except as a way to put her on the same level as him in a simplistic way.
posted by zutalors! at 9:18 AM on August 27, 2016 [11 favorites]


OMG self, this tweet is brilliant. I am brilliant and this will show those black folks how brilliant and awesome I am. It will make them see the light finally!!"

No, he knows everyone will throw a shit fit about it and the media will be like "this election is so terrible! Both sides! Clinton foundation!" that's all he wants.
posted by zutalors! at 9:19 AM on August 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


If Doctor B was Obama's physician, we'd all be 'that's so cool'

No way. I would totally be worried about the president's sanity.


There is no such thing in the US as a doctor who is really top notch being a schlub with no public accolades or awards or even patient ratings, certainly not a doc who takes insurance and works for what I believe is the largest hospital system in New York. A doc who lets board certs expire. A doc with such a shabby office. The most remarkable thing about Bornstein beyond his Foghat roadie appearance and stoned affect is that it is obvious he is *not a very good doctor.* he inherited his father's practice and patients and left his dad's name on the letterhead years after his death. He wrote *that* letter, which nearly every objective physician who has remarked on it has said is blatantly unprofessional down to the last detail.

So the compelling question is why Trump has a bad PCP, not just an eccentric one. If our president had such an obviously incompetent, unprofessional, and under-qualified doc I'd be appalled.

That point is getting a bit missed in the media over chuckling at his eccentricity. There are plenty of good docs, plenty of eccentric ones, and even plenty of eccentric good ones (who have to be really, really good).

In NYC very good docs are either very well known for their chops (they make things like NY Magazine's annual "best doctors" list, which is hundreds of names long) or if they are not well known that is because they are super discreet concierge docs to the rich and famous (who still value public accolades for their specialists however; the best cancer docs in NYC -- and thus the world -- almost all take insurance and treat the general public. If Trump had cancer he'd go to MSK just like a middle class New Yorker with decent insurance would, and see the same clinicians, or he would if he had a brain).

The real question is "is this low rent bullshit artist doc really his only personal physician, and if so why, and no matter why,why would we take this guy's word when he has almost no reputation as a physician to speak of).

I know a lot about the world of rich peoples' medical care in NYC for a number of reasons. Rich people whom have really nice apartments and summer houses and cars and planes and helicopters and lots of servants don't have docs no one ever heard of. Or if they do, that doc has multiple rich patients who pay handsomely for her/his low profile despite having the skills to be highly reputed.

Especially since Trump is a 72 year old hypochondriac man with *at least* the obvious routine health problems associated with his age and lifestyle, suggesting he would surely have a cardiologist on his primary team, the obvious question here is why he thinks anyone should believe Dr. Foghat has ever really even examined him, and why we should value his opinion.
posted by spitbull at 9:22 AM on August 27, 2016 [44 favorites]


This is why the "unfavorables" thing really bothers me. It doesn't mean anything except as a way to put her on the same level as him...

Yeah, I've been thinking that "Polls say this percentage of people dislike Hillary Clinton" is just a thinly glossed way for "respectable" journalists to get down and wallow pretty close to the "some people say [ wild rumor ]" types of stories. It's like an attempt to report on how much smoke there is without bothering to assess the presence of an actual fire or smoking gun.

I don't want to pile on to the mainstream media, but I think they could be doing better.
posted by puddledork at 9:23 AM on August 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


Trump tweeted that same tweet again.

?

And Wade has sent out 3 tweets, but none in response yet.
posted by cashman at 9:29 AM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump tweeted that same tweet again.

?


He corrected the spelling on Dwyane.
posted by chris24 at 9:31 AM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


For contrast:

Here is Hillary Clinton's letter from her physician.

And here is information about the doctor who wrote that letter. She has been on a "Best Doctors in America" list from 2011-2016, for example.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 9:32 AM on August 27, 2016 [15 favorites]


No, he knows everyone will throw a shit fit about it and the media will be like "this election is so terrible! Both sides! Clinton foundation!" that's all he wants.

I believe he know it will get media attention which he wants I'm just not convinced that this type of message is exactly what he's after. I think he really does think that the way he's going about his POC messaging will work or better SHOULD work.

I've known racist bigots like this and they just don't seem to get why, what they think are perfectly reasonable things to say don't work. They can't because the foundations they base their arguments on is racist and bigoted. They think they saying and doing things 'nice and reasonable and logical' but they aren't.

Same sorta thing happens with sexism.
posted by Jalliah at 9:32 AM on August 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


A. The buzzfeed reporter who wrote the story about the alt right tv show is getting slammed by (all together!) anti Semitic death threats on Twitter. Still no response from adult swim or Twitter
B. Tim Heidecker meanwhile has been pushing his I Am A Cuck song making fun of the alt right and is now receiving, eh you get it.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:33 AM on August 27, 2016 [5 favorites]


Building on soren_lorensen's advice, a buddy whose Obama signs were repeatedly stolen finally got the perps to stop by mixing up vaseline and ghost pepper sauce. It's well-nigh invisible until you've got it everywhere...

(the guy across the street that the whole neighborhood knew as "Asshole Bob" had mysteriously puffy eyes for a couple days after that...)
posted by notsnot at 9:34 AM on August 27, 2016 [38 favorites]


Countdown to tweets about the failing NY Times begins now...

‘No Vacancies’ for Blacks: How Donald Trump Got His Start, and Was First Accused of Bias
posted by chris24 at 9:36 AM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]




Trump tweeted that same tweet again.

holy shit, i thought someone on the campaign might have had a fleeting moment of self-awareness and deleted it, but no, they just FIXED THE TYPO
posted by murphy slaw at 9:37 AM on August 27, 2016 [9 favorites]


oh and the original tweet was from android, the spelling correction was from iOS.

so some staffer did it, on purpose

brb throwing up forever
posted by murphy slaw at 9:40 AM on August 27, 2016 [34 favorites]


That tweet was deliberate?

Jesus Christ. You'd have to really hate yourself to vote for this vile slug.
posted by Yowser at 9:44 AM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Calling Trump a vile slug is an insult to vile slugs everywhere.

VILE SLUGS 2016
posted by mochapickle at 9:47 AM on August 27, 2016 [10 favorites]


he inherited his father's practice and patients and left his dad's name on the letterhead years after his death.

A lot like how Trump inherited his father's real estate business and fortune, except without the ego and credit line. The affect is of someone who is running his father's practice as a kind of hobby and plays a lot of solitaire on that Windows XP machine.
posted by holgate at 9:48 AM on August 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


I keep seeing interviews with Trump supporters that say "we know there won't actually be a wall, but we like what he's saying." So I don't think it's a matter of convincing people it's a bad idea. It's just indulging a power fantasy for them. So all attempts to talk about it like an actual tangible issue are going to fail.

So I would love to pursue the fantasy part.

Q: What is your favorite thing about Trump?
A: He is going to build a wall and Mexico will pay for it.
Q: Do you think the wall will really be built?
A: No, but I like that he said it.
Q: So your reason for choosing this man to be President is he has promised you a fantasy? Do you not need anything more concrete?

I really think a large number of his supporters don't believe anything that Politicians say and do believe that even if they vote for someone that they will not benefit in anyway. So why not choose the asshole as a big "Fuck you" to Washington D.C.? So I guess the way to get through to someone like that is to show their lives can improve or can get worse depending on who becomes President.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:49 AM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


So your reason for choosing this man to be President is he has promised you a fantasy?

A: No, it's racism.
posted by chris24 at 10:02 AM on August 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


chris24, yes racism a lot of the time but not all the time-- not everyone. I do think a lot of these fans are just so disgusted with how government works that they are going for the anti-government guy.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:06 AM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


You don't have to be a racist if you're voting for Trump, but you have to be okay with racism.
posted by stolyarova at 10:10 AM on August 27, 2016 [48 favorites]


You have to have convinced yourself he doesn't mean any of it, deliberately shutting your ears to the racism or okay with it to support Trump just because he's the anti-government guy. None of those are terribly good looks. Even if you're convinced he doesn't mean any of those racist things, you have to convince yourself that a prominent candidate for public office saying racist things isn't harmful in itself.

That's a lot of contortions that all come down to being okay with racism. At least in some form, even if people don't admit it.
posted by R343L at 10:10 AM on August 27, 2016 [6 favorites]



@radiofreetom
Chicago murder:

Dems: Tragic, and it's guns
GOP: Tragic, but it's culture
Trump: This is what I've been tellin' those blacks. I'm awesome.

posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:10 AM on August 27, 2016 [44 favorites]


Heh. I'm reading this WaPo article: Republicans can’t pretend not to know what fuels the Trump campaign and came across the line, "Certainly not everyone who supports Mr. Trump is a bigot."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:10 AM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


I do think a lot of these fans are just so disgusted with how government works that they are going for the anti-government guy

I agree with this, and I think it's why, to some people, casting HRC as the most qualified politician is a mark against her. she's just the pinnacle of what they don't want.
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:11 AM on August 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


not everyone

Anyone who supports him and isn't a racist is hella okay with racism. At the point that someone cares so little about the safety and lives of people of color that they have no problem supporting an obvious racist supported by overt racists, I'm not really worried about splitting hairs on where 'real' racism fits in their decision tree.
posted by chris24 at 10:12 AM on August 27, 2016 [25 favorites]


Again, it isn't about is the person racist. It's their actions.

And if your actions are to watch and experience all the racist things Donald Trump says, does or is involved with, from banning non-white people based on their religion to saying non-white people can't do their jobs because of the way they look, and think "Yeah I'll vote for that guy" - your actions are problematic and racist.

On preview - what everybody else is trying to tell you.
posted by cashman at 10:13 AM on August 27, 2016 [7 favorites]


You don't have to be a racist if you're voting for Trump, but you have to be okay with racism.

Yes, you do have a point. How do people like Ben Carson support him? Maybe just selective hearing?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:14 AM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Internalized misogyny is a thing. So is internalized acceptance of systemic racism.
posted by stolyarova at 10:15 AM on August 27, 2016 [12 favorites]


The NBC interview with Trump's doctor is just fucking weird.

This election cycle so odd that a year from now it will be difficult to believe it ever happened.
posted by My Dad at 10:20 AM on August 27, 2016 [9 favorites]


I really hope that's true.
posted by mazola at 10:24 AM on August 27, 2016 [14 favorites]


Unremarked as far as I've seen since the news broke in December, Harold Bornstein has at least one malpractice suit settled out of court for causing the death of a 57 year old colonoscopy patient with improper medication (presumably sedation) and performing the procedure in his office improperly in 2000. The case was settled in 2006.

Interestingly, while Bornstein's NYS Physician profile was submitted in 2004 it appears not to have been updated since, so it does not contain this information.

So yeah, he accidentally caused the death of a patient with drugs doing a colonoscopy, hardly a high risk procedure for most patients. And of course the patient's widow cannot comment because of the terms of the settlement. Sound familiar?
posted by spitbull at 10:27 AM on August 27, 2016 [15 favorites]


You don't have to be a racist if you're voting for Trump, but you have to be okay with racism.

Yes, you do have a point. How do people like Ben Carson support him? Maybe just selective hearing?


Successful people who come from marginalized groups often feel that because they succeeded, the marginalization doesn't really exist, or at least is more easily overcome than other members of that group think..
posted by Etrigan at 10:28 AM on August 27, 2016 [9 favorites]


Shorter: Ben Carson is a racist.
posted by spitbull at 10:29 AM on August 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


Plus Javelinas have dual citizenship. And they can dig under anything.

They seem like chill neighbors.
posted by homunculus at 10:33 AM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Lol that news story: "These are not trained pigs. Do not approach them. They will get aggressive."

No shit?
posted by spitbull at 10:40 AM on August 27, 2016


I think it is possible that some people that support Trump are just SO islamophobic that they don't even really pay attention to his other policies.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:41 AM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Internalized misogyny is a thing. So is internalized acceptance of systemic racism.

The KKK did a handshake photo op sometime in the '70s with an older black lady from Brooklyn. She was a black separatist and wanted them to know that they were on the same side. I wish I could remember her name; I've thought about her a lot. She must have been coming from a place of immense pain.
posted by Countess Elena at 10:42 AM on August 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


3rd try: "My condolences to Dwyane Wade and his family, on the loss of Nykea Aldridge. They are in my thoughts and prayers."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:52 AM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


Apparently, a lot of College Republican organizations are refusing to endorse Trump and/or fighting about it. Hopefully some foreshadowing of the GOP's future.
posted by overglow at 10:55 AM on August 27, 2016 [9 favorites]


Oh well that takes care of that then
posted by Countess Elena at 10:55 AM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


3rd try: "My condolences to Dwyane Wade and his family, on the loss of Nykea Aldridge. They are in my thoughts and prayers."

Sent from android or ios?
posted by maggiemaggie at 11:00 AM on August 27, 2016 [8 favorites]


#NotAllTrumpSupporters
posted by one_bean at 11:00 AM on August 27, 2016


3rd try: "My condolences to Dwyane Wade and his family, on the loss of Nykea Aldridge. They are in my thoughts and prayers."

Which phone was used that time? I'm guessing not Trump's. It is spelled correctly and has periods (though that comma is unnecessary) and no exclamations.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:01 AM on August 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


Apparently, a lot of College Republican organizations are refusing to endorse Trump and/or fighting about it. Hopefully some foreshadowing of the GOP's future.
Rasmussen, who is now the co-director of Yale New Republicans, said he and others defected from the group because they felt the Trump endorsement marginalized conservative Yale students who do not support Trump, and he feels it’s a sentiment rippling across college campuses.

“What’s happening at Yale right now is the perfect foreshadowing of what we will see in the Republican Party in the years to come,” he said. “The Republican Party is at a point now where it needs to either adapt or it will die.”
New Republicans? Like New Coke. Republicanism but changed the recipe slightly to make it more socially liberal like the competing Democrats.
posted by Talez at 11:09 AM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


Business Insider: There’s a surprisingly similar theme in Donald Trump’s initial reaction to tragedies

It's only surprising if you haven't been paying attention.
A review of the Republican presidential nominee's tweets found that in the aftermath of such events, Trump tends to reflect attention back on himself.

The observation was first made by NBC News reporter Katy Tur.
And they go on to list all the horrible Trump self-congratulatory tweets.

Katy Tur first wrote about this June 13 after the Orlando shooting.
Trump's real-time Twitter reaction to tragedy offers a rare and telling glimpse into the mind of the candidate. Tragedy after tragedy, Trump has quickly pivoted from the appearance of mourning to self-aggrandizement or petty attacks.
I hope that after Trump is humiliated at the polls in November, somebody writes an entire book about Trump's tweets. Chapter One: "Trump uses devastating events to pat himself on the back.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:12 AM on August 27, 2016 [17 favorites]


Sent from android or ios?

Sent via Twitter for iPad. So someone who doesn't normally tweet for him jumped in.
posted by chris24 at 11:12 AM on August 27, 2016 [26 favorites]


the Trump endorsement marginalized conservative Yale students who do not support Trump

Yale does not owe them a safe space!
posted by spitbull at 11:18 AM on August 27, 2016 [15 favorites]


New Republicans: Same racism, misogyny, and ableism, all new formula!
posted by Yowser at 11:18 AM on August 27, 2016


Jesus. That's all Dwyane Wade's family needs - to be thrown into the political deep end by Trump during a family tragedy.

Condolences to Dwyane's family, and . for Nykea.
posted by spinifex23 at 11:22 AM on August 27, 2016 [16 favorites]


Upcoming headline from some dopey media outlet, probably the AP: "Trump offers condolences to Wade family, Clinton silent."
posted by tonycpsu at 11:24 AM on August 27, 2016 [16 favorites]


Upcoming headline from some dopey media outlet, probably the AP: "Trump offers condolences to Wade family, Clinton silent."

AP: "Dwyane Wade and Donald Trump speak out on Twitter in wake of the NBA star's cousin's fatal shooting." [real]
posted by chris24 at 11:26 AM on August 27, 2016 [5 favorites]


¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by tonycpsu at 11:29 AM on August 27, 2016 [21 favorites]


tonycpsu confirmed for Kwisatz Haderach.
posted by rorgy at 11:31 AM on August 27, 2016 [23 favorites]


AP: "Dwyane Wade and Donald Trump speak out on Twitter in wake of the NBA star's cousin's fatal shooting." [real]

What the fucking fuck. This is how far media will go to not appear partisan?

The Republic was a nice experiment but we humans just fuck everything up eventually.
posted by Talez at 11:31 AM on August 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


If you like me didn't have time to watch Maddow's interview with Kellyanne Conway, WaPo has a complete transcription: Rachel Maddow’s fascinating duel with Trump campaign manager Kellyanne Conway, annotated

I know a number of MeFites thought it was too soft but one of the podcasts I listen to, probably Keepin It 1600, called it a masterclass in interviewing.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:37 AM on August 27, 2016 [16 favorites]


I actually thought Kellyanne Conway did a decent job. She came across as a human person.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:39 AM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


Don Cheadle, in response to Trump's first tweet:

You are truly a POS.

Then, after Trump deleted his initial tweet and reposted the same message, this time with Wade's first name spelled correctly, Cheadle wrote,

"Sorry. I misspelled 'die in a grease fire.'"
posted by zakur at 11:41 AM on August 27, 2016 [109 favorites]


And you gotta love Cheadle's avatar.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:44 AM on August 27, 2016 [10 favorites]


CNN: Associated Press botches Hillary Clinton report and response

"Hillary Clinton is surrounded by suggestions of controversy. Terms like "Clinton Foundation," "email server," and "Benghazi" hover around her like a faint smoke that hints at the existence of fire. But finding the fire -- the lie, the misdeed, the unethical act -- is proving to be rather difficult, as evidenced this week by an inaccurate tweet and arguably misleading story from the Associated Press that were quickly rebutted by the Clinton campaign and dismissed by many media outlets."

When fucking CNN is calling out your shitty reporting...
posted by chris24 at 11:47 AM on August 27, 2016 [58 favorites]


I know a number of MeFites thought it was too soft

I'm one. She seemed human, as romthreeseventeen observed above, because Rachel consciously devoted multiple minutes to humanizing Conway and buttering her up, and allowed her consistently to present herself both as of *and* outside of the actual Trunp campaign, of speaking both as a representative and a pundit.

Master class in cable news interviewing maybe, where your whole goal is to get the guest or her boss to come back and you're overly concerned with appearing neutral in the face of pure bullshit spin.

Rachel didn't roll over and play puppy dog the way Blitzer or Cooper routinely do. But neither did she get anywhere near the jugular of truth with her very polished interlocutor, thus accomplishing Conway's goal of humanizing herself and thus her boss's evil enterprise by proxy. Classic good cop. But there's no bad cop. Steve Bannon or Donald Trump aren't coming on Rachel's show.

Conway basically showed Katrina Pierson and Michael "says who?" Cohen and the gang how you spin in an adversarial encounter without raising your voice and coming across as reasonable even when the things you're implying are hideous.

I just think Rachel's goal was to make news, which she did, in a mainstream way. She wanted to show a broader audience that she is impartial and nice to republicans. Which, ok, great for her and her serious need for more market share. But she barely laid a glove on Conway at a deeper level.

Please FSM let me see Joy Reid take on Conway this fall.
posted by spitbull at 11:54 AM on August 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


So this afternoon is the motorcycle rally in Iowa, #RoastAndRide Joni Ernst is speaking now and Trump to follow soon.

WaPo: Joni Ernst: Trump should tone it down, focus more on issues
The senator will lead a procession of motorcyclists on a 42-mile trek through the countryside Saturday morning. They will finish at the fairgrounds, where Trump will speak around 1 p.m. Central time.

Ernst smiled when asked if Trump will ride a motorcycle, perhaps envisioning the scene. “I will be the only one riding,” she said.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:56 AM on August 27, 2016


Let's see her try to castrate a Javelina.
posted by spitbull at 11:59 AM on August 27, 2016


Per Sopan Deb, there's no teleprompter for Trump's speech with Ernst, first time in two weeks.
posted by chris24 at 11:59 AM on August 27, 2016


Guess who else likes to campaign at motorbike rallies?
posted by PenDevil at 12:01 PM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


New Yorker's satire guys beating The Onion at their own game.
After determining that Pence had given them the slip, Trump staffers fanned out across the Virginia backcountry, where the governor was believed to have fled.

News that Pence had vanished touched off a panic in Indiana, where residents feared that he might return to resume his political career.
So much gold here.
posted by Talez at 12:20 PM on August 27, 2016 [35 favorites]


I just finally actually watched the Dr. Bornstein video and yes, he's bizarre and the Trump stuff is BS, but unless I missed it here, did no one see him say he knew Clinton's doctor and that she had health issues?

"I know her physician, and I know some of her health history which is really not so good."

The NBC article makes no mention of it, nor did Rachel Maddow. I mean WTF? That's a HIPAA violation (though I'm assuming he's lying) and just gross regardless and no one is talking about it? This year man, this year.
posted by chris24 at 12:44 PM on August 27, 2016 [58 favorites]


I just had to do my yearly HIPAA training at work this week* and you just don't talk about patient health information to anyone. Chances are that he's just lying and her doctor didn't say anything to him but at best he's implicitly accusing Clinton's doctor of violating her HIPAA privacy rights.

* Even software engineers in a hospital system have to be HIPAA trained and certified each year.
posted by octothorpe at 1:02 PM on August 27, 2016 [22 favorites]


Per Sopan Deb, there's no teleprompter for Trump's speech with Ernst, first time in two weeks.

And he's now reporting that they're setting up prompters at the last minute. So no free range Trump.
posted by chris24 at 1:05 PM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


I just want to point out this bit from the Maddow/Conway interview:
[Maddow points out that Trump's claimed precedent for "extreme vetting", the McCarran Act of the early '50s, was thrown out by the Supreme Court for being unconstitutional.]

MADDOW: You can't have a McCarran Act now, it's unconstitutional.

CONWAY: But that's my point too. People can look at it and say, "this is ridiculous, that's unconstitutional, you can't have that", or they can say, "that may work, and I'd like to hear more about it".
Yes, I suppose those are two reactions you can have to something that's unconstitutional.
posted by a car full of lions at 1:13 PM on August 27, 2016 [52 favorites]


I guess the 2nd amendment is on the table then.
posted by mazola at 1:18 PM on August 27, 2016 [45 favorites]


Ugh, Trump is talking about Wade's family at his rally in Iowa. Does anyone on that campaign consider that maybe they don't want to be exploited as political pawns for Trump's gain? Of course he doesn't. That would require an understanding that other people have their own feelings and emotions. But you would think someone over there would have more sense than that. This is one of his teleprompter speeches too.
posted by downtohisturtles at 1:43 PM on August 27, 2016 [8 favorites]


Trump: "Nothing means more to me than working to make our party the home of the African-American vote once again. Used to be."

Wonder why that is Donald, wonder why...
posted by chris24 at 1:46 PM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


What's even worse is that any of Nykea's family that speak out against this, even Wade, would face racist abuse for it, possibly affecting his NFL career - God forbid an athlete be associated with something "left-wing" like contradicting Trump.
posted by Countess Elena at 1:47 PM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump: "Nothing means more to me than working to make our party the home of the African-American vote once again. Used to be."

Wonder why that is Donald, wonder why...


What's next? "We're going to repeal the Civil Rights Act because there's no racism anymore and we want to show our faith in people to do the right thing without the law threatening to put them in jail just because they don't like someone who happens to be black".
posted by Talez at 1:49 PM on August 27, 2016




"Trump says he would start the process to round up and deport undocumented immigrants "within one hour" of being inaugurated. #iowa"

At the rate Trump pivots, if I could find some way to glue some magnets onto the cheeto and get some copper wire coiled around these arenas I could probably unleash an energy revolution.
posted by Talez at 1:51 PM on August 27, 2016 [21 favorites]


I could probably unleash an energy revolution.

Trump Energy: Harnessing the power of hate and indecision since 2016.
posted by chris24 at 1:53 PM on August 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


"Trump says he would start the process to round up and deport undocumented immigrants "within one hour" of being inaugurated."

"That's not how it works! That's not how any of this works!"
posted by zakur at 1:54 PM on August 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


I have this theory that part of how white supremacy continues to exist is because it's directed so many ways at once. If you look at the sorts of black/Hispanic/etc minorities who wind up being the talking heads in support of Trump and the GOP generally, they're usually not in the habit of defending POC broadly. I suspect that the way white supremacists get this sort of allies is the "hey that guy is going to take your cookie" thing.

Hispanic people from families who lived here before it was the US, or descended from documented immigrants, can be convinced that Hispanics would be better-regarded if it weren't for "illegals". Black people can be convinced that the jobs the "illegals" are taking could be helping black communities. Both groups can easily fall in with the usual Islamophobia, especially if they're evangelical Christians. And so on, and so forth.

Not saying this is really a very prevalent thing, because clearly Trump doesn't actually have that much support from these communities. Just that I'm pretty sure that the few people supporting him, this factors heavily into why.
posted by Sequence at 1:54 PM on August 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


affecting his NFL career

Minor correction: s/NFL/NBA/
posted by kingless at 1:55 PM on August 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


Of course. That plan INS has had for years to locate and remove everyone undocumented within the borders quickly and with no fuss. That that rascally Obama refuses to sign off on! You know it exists!

[fake] I shouldn't have to but who knows what he'll say next...
posted by downtohisturtles at 1:58 PM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Of course. That plan INS has had for years to locate and remove everyone undocumented within the borders quickly and with no fuss. That that rascally Obama refuses to sign off on! You know it exists!

I know you're being facetious but if Trump wins with a Republican congress expect the Legal Workforce Act to be rammed through within a week of congress being convened. With a few minor alterations they could use the e-verify system to make it trivial to start tracking down illegal immigrants and, at the same time, lock them further out of mainstream society.
posted by Talez at 2:07 PM on August 27, 2016


Oh my God that is so embarrassing of me. NERRRRRRD. Thanks, kingless.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:07 PM on August 27, 2016


affecting his NFL career

Minor correction: s/NFL/NBA/


And the NBA actually has a decent record of supporting its athletes here-- they banned LA Clippers owner Donald Sterling for life over his racist comments, and many players spoke out publicly against him.
posted by Dixon Ticonderoga at 2:10 PM on August 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


I know you're being facetious but if Trump wins with a Republican congress expect the Legal Workforce Act to be rammed through within a week of congress being convened.

How long before the farmers in rural states contact their representatives to tell them they have no laborers left?
posted by PenDevil at 2:11 PM on August 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


They also pulled the all star game out of NC because of their most recent crazy hate law, right?
posted by schadenfrau at 2:11 PM on August 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


"We're going to repeal the Civil Rights Act because there's no racism anymore and we want to show our faith in people to do the right thing without the law threatening to put them in jail just because they don't like someone who happens to be black".

I can't tell anymore....was this real or fake?
posted by Existential Dread at 2:12 PM on August 27, 2016


@JoyAnnReid:
When you tease out the worldview that connects Trump's immigration and "black people" pitches, you find a common thread...And the thread is this notion of black and brown communities as defined by only four things: lawlessness, violence, poverty and welfare.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:16 PM on August 27, 2016 [42 favorites]


I am the only one so far to get serious Dr. Jacoby of Twin Peaks vibes from Dr. Bornstein?
posted by Theiform at 2:17 PM on August 27, 2016 [17 favorites]


Nope, you're definitely not alone in that.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 2:18 PM on August 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


In case anyone's wondering about volunteering, I did a few hours of phonebanking in NYC and it was easy peasy. If you don't like phones you can do other stuff like data entry/canvassing, the only thing is that at least in NYC they don't have the field office as operational yet for collecting the data compared to phone banking. They're also bussing people to PA.

But you can totally walk in/email your field office/whatever. I know people were nervous about phones but you can do nonphone stuff or at least just ask about it.
posted by zutalors! at 2:23 PM on August 27, 2016 [8 favorites]




Trump is just like a Cheeto. He's orange, he's made from large volumes of hot air and when you get his orange cheeto dust on your hands it NEVER comes off.

And Cheetos have their place, but that place is not "in the Oval Office, making national policy." If Trump kept himself to proper Cheeto-esque behavior - hanging out with a pack of fans watching football, for example, or attending drunken college parties - there'd be no complaints about him.

(Well, maybe a few. 70-year-old Cheetos are not welcome at most college parties.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:36 PM on August 27, 2016 [5 favorites]


Trump's organization (and that encompasses hangers-on like Bornstein) is just fucking Amateur Hour from top to bottom. Nothing says "delusions of adequacy" like an "I-can-learn-anything-in-an-hour" campaign philosophy ("I can write a doctor's letter for a presidential candidate in five minutes!).

In the real world many good people work hard for decades and get nowhere. In Trump's world utterly unfit people are elevated to "responsible" positions if they're willing to kiss his doughy 70-year-old ass.

Now that I think of it, maybe the two worlds aren't so different after all.

(Holy crap, I made it all the way to the end. Do people still read the comments down here?)
posted by GrammarMoses at 3:13 PM on August 27, 2016 [28 favorites]


So this (NPR story with audio) is delicious: there's a Corrido for Donald Trump.

Ladies and gentlemen, Los Tres Tristes Tigres. (YouTube)

(Band website with lyrics)

Opening stanza:
Normalmente los corridos
le escribimos a personas
no a cabrones insolentes
como ese mentado Donald
mis respetos para el pato
ese sí es que es buena onda

posted by spitbull at 3:21 PM on August 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


Normalmente los corridos
le escribimos a personas
no a cabrones insolentes
como ese mentado Donald
mis respetos para el pato
ese sí es que es buena onda


A translation from my bad spanish:

Normally we don't write corridos about rude bastards like that guy Trump, with all due respect to the duck [el pato, i dunno, is this mexican slang?], as if he if were a cool guy [buena onda, a good dude].
posted by dis_integration at 3:38 PM on August 27, 2016


Duck, as in Donald Duck?
posted by Sublimity at 3:40 PM on August 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


Right it's an idiom and it means "Just to be clear about which Donald we mean here, the duck is cool with us, it's the other Donald guy we are singing about."
posted by spitbull at 3:45 PM on August 27, 2016 [7 favorites]


> "Do people still read the comments down here?"

No, never.
posted by kyrademon at 3:47 PM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


Not SANE people, anyway.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:52 PM on August 27, 2016 [10 favorites]


So Trump Jr. is retweeting Infowars conspiracy theories that Google is trying to hide Clinton's health issues.
posted by chris24 at 4:10 PM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


TPM: Anti-Trump Republicans To Run Ads Against Trump In Key States

Corb, is this your group?

"A group of Republicans who are dismayed by Trump and alarmed by his slipping poll numbers will be running ads in key states across the country, calling for Trump to step aside, according to a new report from Politico.

The ad, which was sponsored by the group "Free the Delegates" will run in suburbs in Florida, Virginia, Ohio and Michigan, according to Politico. Free the Delegates had tried to stop Trump at the Republican convention, but had fallen short. The ad is titled "Keep Your Promise," which is a throwback to a comment Trump made early in the campaign that he'd bow out of the presidential race if he was far behind in national polls."
posted by chris24 at 4:20 PM on August 27, 2016 [12 favorites]


Cheetos

Introduced

1948; 68 years ago (as Chee-tos)
1998; 18 years ago (as Cheetos)


Trump was the prototype?
posted by Autumn Leaf at 4:22 PM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


> Upcoming headline from some dopey media outlet, probably the AP: "Trump offers condolences to Wade family, Clinton silent."

AP: "Dwyane Wade and Donald Trump speak out on Twitter in wake of the NBA star's cousin's fatal shooting." [real]


Donald Trump’s Tweet About The Murder Of Dwyane Wade’s Cousin Was Bad. The Associated Press’ Tweet Was Worse.
posted by homunculus at 4:34 PM on August 27, 2016 [23 favorites]


They also pulled the all star game out of NC because of their most recent crazy hate law, right?

Yes, the NBA moved the 2017 game to New Orleans. The linked page (Wikipedia) has a decent summary of the events that led to the decision. The change was announced August 19. Bravo!

I had forgotten that the NFL moved Super Bowl XXVII from Tempe, Arizona because the state didn't recognize MLK, Jr. Day. Of course NC's infamous Jesse Helms opposed the holiday.
posted by kingless at 4:45 PM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]



THE QUESTION IS PIE IS THE ANSWER IS YES
posted by entropicamericana at 2:55 PM on August 25


Because letting them eat cake never goes as well as one may hope....
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 4:55 PM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


I picture Trump in his HQ on Election Eve learning that Steiner won't be able to attack. He'll demand that everyone but Bannon, Conway and Peirson leave the room. Then he'll go into a screaming fit about how the RNC and the establishment betrayed and undermined him at every turn. Staffers will be listening in the hallway looking sad and defeated. Then finally he will put his hands to the desk and announce all is lost.
posted by humanfont at 5:00 PM on August 27, 2016 [43 favorites]


I picture Trump in his HQ on Election Eve learning that Steiner won't be able to attack. He'll demand that everyone but Bannon, Conway and Peirson leave the room. Then he'll go into a screaming fit about how the RNC and the establishment betrayed and undermined him at every turn. Staffers will be listening in the hallway looking sad and defeated. Then finally he will put his hands to the desk and announce all is lost.

Untergang Hitler has been Trumped already. Hilariously, that video included Manafort. There's really no telling who will be in the Trump Election Eve Bunker when he finds all is lost, even Georgia.
posted by dis_integration at 5:08 PM on August 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


There are a few Trump Downfall parodies out there. This is a Godwin good one.
posted by spitbull at 5:35 PM on August 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


Speaking of Georgia...

In my quest to become an Official Trump Election Observer (see way, way above), I called my county's GOP office and left a message, and the guy's wife called me back. Why didn't the guy himself call me? I don't know.

I asked if they had any contact with the Trump campaign and whether they knew anything about the election observer program. "No," she said, "We haven't heard anything. It's a good idea, though."

I went on Trump's website to the states/Georgia section, but the page led to the very generic "Volunteer" form that serves the site as a whole. There's is no phone number anywhere.

"Does Trump even have a field office in Georgia?" I wondered. I found a press release, dated January 2016, about the establishment of one, but nothing current at all. I am going to contact the people named in the press release and ask them just what exactly they've been doing this whole time.

"Gee," I thought, "I'll bet the only people who are motivated enough to really get this election observing underway are white supremacists." I thought about tracking some Georgia organizations down and asking them, but didn't because I don't want to put bad ideas into their heads if they haven't already thought about it.

But they have, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. I'm going to contact the SPLC and ask them for specifics about which group is doing what, then figure out where to go from there.

I still have not heard from the campaign about the form I originally filled out saying I wanted to volunteer for election observing. I filled out the generic volunteer form on Trump's website that the "Trump in Georgia" link took me to, but I'll bet anybody here anything I don't hear back from them.

If this guy runs the country like he runs his campaign...
posted by staggering termagant at 5:41 PM on August 27, 2016 [53 favorites]


Welp, went on a trip to what is apparently Trump Lawn Sign Country (incidental to a trip to an amusement park). Can't say I was shocked, but I remain baffled. The area is not post-industrial depressed #economicanxiety land, it's basically the living embodiment of what that Gallup research found about Trump voters--they're not any poorer but they are a whole lot whiter and live in areas with little to no diversity. (Our trip had bonus Actual Card-Carrying White Supremacists sitting behind us at dinner. Husband ID'd them via tattoos.) Must be super easy to be a white nationalist when you only ever are around white people anyway.

We had dinner right next door to the college that Fred Rogers made famous, and the road signs have little pictures of Trolley on them. He must be spinning in his grave.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:47 PM on August 27, 2016 [16 favorites]


Let's not forget that in 2008, the AP made Ron Fournier its Washington bureau chief. Fournier had previously been caught telling Rove to "keep up the fight" and had been in discussions to join the McCaign campaign. He was also an early purveyor of the "Al Gore claimed to invent the Internet" bullshit. This is not the first embarrassing campaign cycle for the AP. Full rundown here.
posted by one_bean at 5:51 PM on August 27, 2016 [17 favorites]


WP: Inside debate prep: Clinton’s careful case vs. Trump’s ‘WrestleMania’

"Trump is taking a different approach. He summons his informal band of counselors — including former New York mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani, talk-radio host Laura Ingraham and ousted Fox News Channel chairman Roger Ailes — to his New Jersey golf course for Sunday chats. Over bacon cheeseburgers, hot dogs and glasses of Coca-Cola, they test out zingers and chew over ways to refine the Republican nominee’s pitch.

Trump’s aides have put together briefing books, not that the candidate is devoting much time to reading them. Trump is not holding any mock debates, proudly boasting that a performer with his talents does not need that sort of prepping. Should Trump submit to traditional rehearsals, some associates are talking about casting Ingraham, an adversarial chronicler of Clinton scandals, to play the Democratic nominee."
posted by chris24 at 5:54 PM on August 27, 2016 [13 favorites]


So anyway, we have a sighting of the Vagenda.
posted by happyroach at 6:04 PM on August 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


Oh, and a small clue on how Trump views himself and the presidency from today's speech:

"She’s not an imperial leader, is she? I don’t think so. I don’t think so. She doesn't--she doesn't even look presidential to me."

* Do you think he sees himself as Tarkin or Vader?
posted by chris24 at 6:11 PM on August 27, 2016 [11 favorites]


I just literally recoiled, chris24. We don't look to be ruled.

You know, during the RNC, my mom remarked (with no small amount of distaste) that Trump was trying to present himself as a king and his family as the royal family. She wasn't far wrong, I see.
posted by yasaman at 6:17 PM on August 27, 2016 [15 favorites]


"she is pledging to abolish the law-making powers of Congress and assume the powers of an Imperial ruler"

Trump's Mirror would make him totally Palpatine, but without the experience.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:18 PM on August 27, 2016 [14 favorites]


As this thread creeps up on the 3000 comment mark, I just want to give a preemptive shout-out to any and all Mefites who can stomach watching the debates and are prepared to live-post about them. There's simply no way that I can watch without incurring serious health consequences. I'm kind of not kidding about that.

So, to all of the people who have given us updates in real time of Trump's rallies, and to anyone who can do the same during the debates, I salute you!
posted by Surely This at 6:22 PM on August 27, 2016 [26 favorites]


I can report that tehhund has made the jump to the post-convention election threads. Soldier on!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:32 PM on August 27, 2016 [43 favorites]




OH NO i just realized i'm going to be on vacation for the first debate and we are going to Rome and I'm going to have to get up at 4am to watch it oh god
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:48 PM on August 27, 2016 [7 favorites]


OH NO i just realized i'm going to be on vacation for the first debate and we are going to Rome and I'm going to have to get up at 4am to watch it oh god

Thank gods for jetlag!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:53 PM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


What if the reports you see are that HRC is kicking his ass hard?

Because personally, I think I'm going to need a lot of popcorn.
posted by VTX at 6:54 PM on August 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


For goodness sakes, if you're going on vacation - if you're going with loved ones - put down the thread and go on vacation. I mean unless you've got down time like that or Rome is old hat for you. Don't miss out on a great experience to watch Hillary Clinton appear on stage with that shitstain Donald Trump.
posted by cashman at 6:57 PM on August 27, 2016 [38 favorites]


Very strong analysis of the (racist, intentional) historical ignorance of Trump'a rhetoric on race, crime, and urban governance by Goldie Taylor in the Daily Beast:

Donald Trump Uses Shooting of Dwyane Wade’s Cousin to Peddle Dangerous Stereotypes


Bit of a sample from mid-article as an enticement. This is writing you can use to rebut your racist relatives.

Few notions in the discourse are quite as mendacious as the myth the Democrats destroyed some of the nation’s largest, predominantly black cities. One does not have to peel open a history book or even go digging in the bowels of library archive to understand how decaying inner city neighborhoods were created. Then too, today the poorest, most welfare dependent states are in the South-- and all of them are led by Republican governors.

It was conservatives who created so-called “sundown” towns, whole municipalities that were manufactured out of whole cloth as all-white enclaves. The worked to keep black people trapped inside cratered inner city economies.

posted by spitbull at 7:00 PM on August 27, 2016 [15 favorites]


Yeah, tivalasvegas. Imagine me, wild-haired and crazy-eyed, clutching your shoulders and shaking you gently, going "LEAVE THIS PLACE. Find joy, while you can. We'll have our alcohol, and you--you'll have the Italian sunrise. When we're recovering during the commercial breaks, we'll think of you and that Italian sunrise, and it will give us strength." I'll pause here, to recover my composure. "But you've got to see it, that sunrise!"

anyway have fun in Italy
posted by yasaman at 7:02 PM on August 27, 2016 [20 favorites]


I can't wait to tune into the debates because I'm ready for Hillary's vagenda of manocide.
posted by stolyarova at 7:03 PM on August 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


tivalasvegas, it'll be online somewhere for you to watch when you get back. Get rested up and immerse yourself in the Galleria Borghese instead!
posted by Sublimity at 7:04 PM on August 27, 2016


DONT YOU DARE TIVALV you're going to be president of Metafilter you can't be gallivanting around Europe u might catch commie. Absolutely not.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:04 PM on August 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


I mean unless you've got down time like that or Rome is old hat for you.

eh I already went on vacation to Israel & Palestine in May and managed to keep up with the threads. I probably won't be commenting routinely but for the debate? I'll be ruined if Hillary smacks Trump down hard and I don't see it in real time.

off to Ask to inquire about bluetooth keyboards
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:06 PM on August 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


No! Better yet, tivalasvegas, don't rise for the sunrise. Stay asleep. Stay gloriously asleep. Be one of the sheeple for the duration of your stay. The sheeple have it pretty good this year.
posted by maryr at 7:08 PM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


IT HAS BEEN
-30 DAYS
SINCE SOMEBODY PUT THE SHEEPLE BACK TO BED

posted by maryr at 7:11 PM on August 27, 2016 [12 favorites]


Canvassing Report: I went, I walked, I saw Kenosha.
Although many (many many) people were not at home at the time, I was able (with a recent green carded german émigré who wanted to do as much as she could, other than vote, to elect Hillary) to talk to about a dozen WI-ites (and their delightful dogs) who are all Pro-Hillary(strongly to leaning) this afternoon. Curiously, despite his deep history in the state, everyone we spoke to was neutral/undecided about Russ Feingold. Being a non-expert in WI politics, and being in Ryan's frikin' district, I didn't know how to proceed verbally. Therefore, I asked only if they would like some informative literature, and left it at that. Others can do better, and will, I hope.
There were people who didn't want to talk to us because "they can't vote any more" (read: recent felony). But their mom's still would, and they too, stated that the only rational choice is Hillary. Feelings regardless.
The chatty cathy (not the german lady) that I initial dreaded driving up with actually turned out to be a very convincing advocate for voting for Hillary, because, as she lacked a filter to shut off her deeply democratic interior monologue from her expressions, she ended up convincing a few kinda fuckit why bother low propensity voters.
Overall, great, will do again, with another stop at the Cheese Castle to restock on Spotted Cow.

Other notes, the data game on team Clinton is strong. trust it. We were knocking doors on people who were lower (not none) propensity voters, and getting them to sign a postcard that would be sent back to them as a reminder in October. We were not knocking every door. (although one of ours had a 2016 NRA sticker, thankfully they didn't answer). We often weren't talking to the person on our list, but sort of registering the household as a pro-hillary address, generally, bernie signs in the windows not withstanding. (bernie sign guy asked specifically for more yard signs for hillary, they've been thin on the ground, even here)
posted by Cold Lurkey at 7:12 PM on August 27, 2016 [42 favorites]


I can liveblog the Italian sunrise to relieve any moments of dramatic tension
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:13 PM on August 27, 2016 [26 favorites]


oh wait do they have popcorn in Italy? shit. shit.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:15 PM on August 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


They have polenta. Enjoy it while you can!
posted by stolyarova at 7:17 PM on August 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


please also liveblog the tiny cup of espresso you will be presumably be drinking, along with the exquisite breakfast pastry. in fact, have multiple exquisite breakfast pastries. for me. i'll be busy doing shots of the highest proof alcohol available to me.
posted by yasaman at 7:18 PM on August 27, 2016 [10 favorites]


I'm pretty sure that this is the first time in my lifetime, at least, that part of a major political party is going to be running general election ads AGAINST THEIR OWN PARTY'S NOMINEE.
posted by kyrademon at 7:19 PM on August 27, 2016 [13 favorites]


This is a perfect moment in history for an American band to remake "The Lunatics Have Taken Over The Asylum."
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:22 PM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


Ok, Internet. I just finished my first ever volunteering adventure for Hillary. It was brutal. They had me in a public place, walking up to randos and asking them to pledge to vote for Secretary Clinton (you know, for collecting contact info). My god. Two hours of that and I went straight to a bar. When I'm done here, I'll probably binge eat candy bars or something.

It's amazing how many Canadians you meet when you're holding a clipboard.
posted by chrchr at 7:25 PM on August 27, 2016 [71 favorites]


Notes from the field: Trump signs and pro-Trump protestors spotted on an overpass across Route 24 in Lafayette, CA. This is a wealthy predominantly-white suburb of the Bay Area, west of the hills and full of high-income families. Many of them work in San Francisco, but they live in the "safe" towns with "good schools", away from the diverse mixed-income neighborhoods of Oakland, Berkeley, etc.

I didn't honk, for fear they might think I agreed with them, and none of the cars around me honked either. These were the first Trump signs I'd seen in the wild in the Bay Area, FWIW.
posted by suelac at 7:31 PM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


I've been canvassing a couple of times but I didn't even know that was a possibility. I will be bringing my me-sized turtle shell tomorrow to retract into if necessary.
posted by XMLicious at 7:31 PM on August 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


I didn't honk, for fear they might think I agreed with them, and none of the cars around me honked either. These were the first Trump signs I'd seen in the wild in the Bay Area, FWIW.

I remember when I was walking around SF down in Inner Sunset near Tart to Tart with a friend of mine, a late middle aged Jewish sociology professor. A guy came up to us to enlighten us about the Reform Party and who had signs around his table loudly claiming he was trying to impeach Obama. Without a beat he turns to the approaching guy and says "get the hell away from me. Fuck off you fascist" and keeps walking.

I was left wondering why a Reform Party asshole was even canvassing in San Francisco. Takes all types I suppose.
posted by Talez at 7:48 PM on August 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


Canvassing report here: late AM Saturday morning is not a great time to catch people at home. People with large "NO SOLICITING" signs in their windows are quite strongly not interested in hearing why canvassing =/= soliciting (they just want to know "CAN'T YOU READ?"). Every single person who answered their door was willing to sign their postcard (which will be sent back to them closer to the election to remind them to vote). Even the 20-something young dude of color who said "I don't even think my vote matters, but okaaaay I'll do it for you guys."
posted by sallybrown at 7:51 PM on August 27, 2016 [17 favorites]


They have polenta. Enjoy it while you can!

Whoa, are we running out of polenta? Is there a polenta crisis?!
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:54 PM on August 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


What's the scoop on taking your kids canvassing (in a safely non_hostile area)? Mine is pretty cute but I don't know if deploying cuteness in the service of politics is considered an unfair advantage.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:56 PM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


trump has sworn to eat all the polenta
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:56 PM on August 27, 2016 [7 favorites]


I feel the same way about politics re: kids as I do about religion - let them grow up and do their own business.
posted by stolyarova at 8:00 PM on August 27, 2016


Lol. I say take the kids!

The office I've been volunteering at is doing a family night on Monday.
posted by R343L at 8:01 PM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


One time I was canvassing door-to-door, in Massachusetts, a guy sicced his dog on me for saying "hi". I did not think that would happen. I did not even believe it as it happened. Don't bring your kid door-to-door unless you're very, very certain.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 8:02 PM on August 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


trump has sworn to eat all the kids (oh wait that was Peter Thiel)
posted by sallybrown at 8:03 PM on August 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


I canvassed a lot in NH for Obama. Never had a single bad experience, and I think kids would be a great addition. We did have a lot of kids doing visibilities. If you do decide to canvass with kids, maybe pick a day like one of those weekend days where a lot of people are volunteering together and you start out together with a bit of a rally, donuts and stuff, giving more sense of a collective event. Also, people will understand if you only get so far, as long as you keep good track of your visit coverage.
posted by Miko at 8:04 PM on August 27, 2016


Okay, I did a FPP earlier today about "female cartoon characters running for president decades ago" (over here) and I thank cortex and the mods for not deleting it and telling me to "put it in the current election thread". But in the follow-up discussion I wondered if the cartoon cat Garfield had ever done a fictional campaign. Well, this was on Google's first page of results for "Garfield for President", right next to links about the Real President Garfield. It's not linked to by garfield.com's home page, so it's probably left over from a previous election year, but just look at the slogan near the top: "You Could Do Worse". So THAT's where Dirty Donald got that! Also, scroll down and see that one of Garfield the Cat's campaign promises is: "Paint the White House Orange".
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:44 PM on August 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


i'll be busy doing shots of the highest proof alcohol available to me.

I have already put in leave and informed my boss that, regardless of the outcome, I will be in no shape to come in to work November 9th.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:47 PM on August 27, 2016 [14 favorites]


Thank you to everyone volunteering! I love how many new volunteers we have this year, myself included! I've done some small design and UX work for the HQ and mobile apps, and am excited to start canvassing next week in Texas (crossing fingers going blue).

You can send words of encouragement (please) to Hillary 2016 volunteers, it's as easy as sending a text message.
posted by erisfree at 8:51 PM on August 27, 2016 [19 favorites]


I took the rest of the week. Told my boss in an election year like this one, the only certain outcome would be the hangover.
posted by kythuen at 8:53 PM on August 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


You can send words of encouragement (please) to Hillary 2016 volunteers, it's as easy as sending a text message.

That's an amazingly great idea. Bravo to whomever thought that up. Presumably there's some screening, though. Sadly these days on the internet you always have to think about how your tool could be used by shitty people to be shitty to others.
posted by ctmf at 9:22 PM on August 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


Bloom County was on the President Garfield joke long ago.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:24 PM on August 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


Guys. I fly from Auckland to San Fran on November 9 at 745pm New Zealand time, which is 1045pm November 8 on the west coast. This means I am potentially going to go into the air not knowing who will be president when I land. I am sincerely hoping they announce it on the plane. I have already informed my family, who will be picking me up at the airport, that I intend to drink heavily as soon as I land either in celebration or grief. If you are in the Bay Area on November 9 and hear someone screaming "WOOOOOO HILLARY! YEAH! WOOOOOOOOO!" over and over again as they head up the 101 you can rest assured that it is me.

In the meantime you have a civic duty if you are on the east coast or midwest to win this fucker so hard for HRC that by the time I'm boarding it's not even a contest and no one gives a shit how the west coast votes. Make this happen for me my fellow Americans.

Nov 9 in NZ is also my wedding anniversary. ;_; Pray for mojo!
posted by supercrayon at 9:24 PM on August 27, 2016 [35 favorites]


They had me in a public place, walking up to randos and asking them to pledge to vote for Secretary Clinton (you know, for collecting contact info).

What do you mean by "pledge"?
Do you mean "promise to, regardless what happens"? Like in the Republican primaries? And those who break that promise are, basically, traitors?

Because if that is what it means, I find it a bit disconcerting and think the Clinton campaign should cut it out. It's just reinforcing an "us vs. them" mentality and shutting off critical thinking. In other words, it's what Republicans do and I'd like to think that the Clinton campaign is better than that.
posted by sour cream at 10:03 PM on August 27, 2016


Ehh, seems like a pretty benign get-out-the-vote thing to me. Pledges/promises/commitment can be more "action vs. apathy" than "us vs. them."
posted by knuckle tattoos at 10:12 PM on August 27, 2016 [7 favorites]


Like in the Republican primaries?

Wasn't that a pledge required to vote in the primary saying that you would vote for whoever won the Republican primary in the general, no matter who that might be (even if not the person you were voting for that day)? Seems pretty fundamentally different than canvassing people on the street and asking them to pledge to vote for someone who is already determined to be an option.
posted by solotoro at 10:13 PM on August 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


Sour Cream, to sincerely answer your question: the question we ask is "can we count on your support"? and if yes, we can count on it, there's a commitment reminder postcard they sign and we mail to them. If they don't follow through, either on voting, or on supporting that candidate... WE DON'T KNOW* and WE WILL NEVER KNOW, furthermore there's no possible recourse. Voting is private and confidential. Nothing adverse happens, nor will ever happen, regardless of whether and how you vote because we have anonymous balloting.
*we know if you've voted, at all. but the contents of your ballot remain private. You can not vote for a presidential candidate and still vote in the election.
To insincerely answer your question: yes, the data mining goonsquad of the clinton campaign is going to hack every single one of your emails if you don't vote as pledged. because russia.
posted by Cold Lurkey at 10:17 PM on August 27, 2016 [18 favorites]


Because if that is what it means, I find it a bit disconcerting and think the Clinton campaign should cut it out. It's just reinforcing an "us vs. them" mentality and shutting off critical thinking. In other words, it's what Republicans do and I'd like to think that the Clinton campaign is better than that.

Don't get the vapors over it. These pledge card things are pretty common. The Obama campaign used something like them in both 2008 and 2012, and so have shit-tons of other candidates.

Did you think they had, like, an enforcement mechanism or something?
posted by dersins at 11:04 PM on August 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


What do you mean by "pledge"?

I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE
TO THE VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
AND THE POSITION FOR WHICH SHE STANDS
ONE GENDER
UNDER SUSPICION
WITH POLITICAL CORRECTNESS FOR ALL

... probably not.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:17 PM on August 27, 2016 [31 favorites]


Did you think they had, like, an enforcement mechanism or something?

No, of course not.
Like I said, this "pledging" looks to me that you are declaring yourself to be a member of a certain group. The act of voting is thus reduced to follow the herd. Actually having an opinion on issues or making a decision based on the issues becomes unnecessary.

Secondly, it looks like a promise. Of course, it's unenforceable and (hopefully) nobody knows how you vote. But one probably shouldn't underestimate the psychological factor here. Some people still take promises seriously and may hesitate to break them. And I am sure that that's part of the idea behind it.

Anyway, as a tactic, I think it's similar and not much better than the psychological tactics used by telemarketers or used car salesmen.

Anyway, sorry for the derail. Please carry on.
posted by sour cream at 11:20 PM on August 27, 2016


Brent Spiner: I will be playing the role of Dr. Bornstein in "Trump--The Miniseries"

[real tweet] [fake show]
posted by chris24 at 11:22 PM on August 27, 2016 [16 favorites]


I'm certain that man smells like spoiled mayonnaise.

This makes sense since Trump is Mayonnaise Incarnate.
posted by guiseroom at 11:27 PM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


I bet he smells of ether and despair. And xeroxed prescription pads.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:32 PM on August 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


I cannot stand the crooked photos in the background. I want to reach through the screen and tweak them into position.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:36 PM on August 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


And xeroxed prescription pads.

Mimeographed, surely!
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:41 PM on August 27, 2016 [7 favorites]


Interesting:
How One Donor Is Profiting Off the Trump and Sanders Campaigns
Thanks to a loophole in federal election law, Randy Treibel is making a killing by re-selling official merchandise online.

posted by Joe in Australia at 12:30 AM on August 28, 2016 [10 favorites]


Now I'm feeling guilty that I recently spent a week in Italy and didn't liveblog any sunrises or pastries while keeping up with these election threads. I mean you guys didn't even know I was there and I'm sorry I'll never do that again maybe I'll share cat photos or something as penance.

On another note, I'm having surgery the day of the first debate and am already getting super anxious about maybe missing it. And also contemplating using the debate as an excuse to try to put together my first-ever FPP in my 15 years on Metafilter. (Except, eep, the pressure! I mean, so far all I've got is the Hamilton lyric for the title.)

Yeah, I know it's a month away but a girl needs to plan ahead.
posted by Superplin at 3:11 AM on August 28, 2016 [11 favorites]


Like I said, this "pledging" looks to me that you are declaring yourself to be a member of a certain group. The act of voting is thus reduced to follow the herd. Actually having an opinion on issues or making a decision based on the issues becomes unnecessary.

sour cream, if you take such umbrage at the thought of people canvassing voters by asking "Do you plan to support Hillary in November? If so, do you mind filling out this postcard with your name and address so that we can send you a reminder notice closer to the election?" what is your preferred alternate means of canvassing? What would we be saying in that scenario?
posted by sallybrown at 5:08 AM on August 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


Yes, the postcard thing was used in 2008, and they said at the time that it had been proven to be effective at increasing voter turnout (it was a new thing then). To be honest it did put me off a bit, and I wasn't the only one.

When I canvassed, I offered but didn't push it. Most people did take me up on it. As Cold Lurkey said, it's really just a reminder, but if you are going up to randos on the street, I imagine the name and address then goes into the database. I definitely remember thinking that if someone came up to me on the street and asked me to put my name and address on a postcard, I wouldn't do it. On the other hand, a lot of people just saw it as a way to show their support.
posted by maggiemaggie at 5:17 AM on August 28, 2016


sour cream, if you take such umbrage at the thought of people canvassing voters by asking "Do you plan to support Hillary in November? If so, do you mind filling out this postcard with your name and address so that we can send you a reminder notice closer to the election?" what is your preferred alternate means of canvassing? What would we be saying in that scenario?

I wouldn't call what you described a "pledge" and I wouldn't mind your scenario at all.
Maybe it's just my personal flavor of English, but to me, a pledge is somewhere between a promise and an oath and implies a commitment. I now understand that this is entirely different from what the canvassers are taking.
posted by sour cream at 5:34 AM on August 28, 2016


For what it's worth sour cream I agree with your take on "pledge" and I wouldn't sign anything like that, it just isn't the kind of message I'm accepting of. I'm also not all that enthused about canvassing in general, but I can certainly understand my feelings don't hold for everyone so I couldn't think of suggesting it shouldn't be done since it has, evidently, proved effective in the past.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:39 AM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


There was a study (BBC report) that found that getting patients to write down their own appointment times cut the number of missed appointments by 18%. I presume the voting pledge cards thing is going for a similar 'nudge'.
posted by knapah at 5:46 AM on August 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


I think it would work better if the pitch was: "Can I get your pledge to save America and the world from a dangerous, albeit curiously comical, narcissistic psychopath?"
posted by spitbull at 5:55 AM on August 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


Oh, I agree, the mailing list for reminder cards is a fine idea. no objection to that sort of thing if it is sought out.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:55 AM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


I imagine the name and address then goes into the database

They've already got everyone's names and addresses from the voter rolls. The only new information the card can provide is a demonstration of proclivity which might get you moved up a level to a more committed category in the campaign's software.
posted by Miko at 6:00 AM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


and yes that might qualify you as targeted for more/different/specific other kinds of outreach.
posted by Miko at 6:01 AM on August 28, 2016


and yes that might qualify you as targeted for more/different/specific other kinds of outreach.

Yes, that's what I meant.
posted by maggiemaggie at 6:04 AM on August 28, 2016


I imagine the name and address then goes into the database

If it helps, as someone entering those cards into a database, most people's handwriting is so majestically bad I'm mostly squinting and using all of my paleography skills to enter the name as something like 'Erma Yaz(??)' with a street that, while theoretically in my neighborhood, I have never heard of. /deep sigh

(I love volunteering for my local campaign headquarters and am going there this afternoon WHERE I WILL GET TO MEET REP. MARCIA FUDGE YOU GUYS OR AT LEAST BE IN THE SAME SMALL ROOM WITH HER! And I love data entry, honestly, just...wow. People are terrible at writing their own names and addresses.)
posted by kalimac at 6:12 AM on August 28, 2016 [11 favorites]


David Duke getting in on dank memes.

Anyone who still doesn't think this election is about white supremacy. Here's the proof.
posted by Talez at 6:14 AM on August 28, 2016 [25 favorites]


My wife and I took my twins (ten months old at the time) canvassing with us for Obama in 2008. They were a huge hit with people. I might get them to knock doors for Hillary if I let them hunt Pokemon at the same time, maybe.
posted by EarBucket at 6:22 AM on August 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Good god, Talez, that David Duke meme is sickening.
posted by Superplin at 6:24 AM on August 28, 2016 [10 favorites]


God forbid the left use any marketing tactics that work! Let's just hand out policy documents, preferably in zine format, and ask people to consider voting for someone, unless they don't feel like it.
[fake]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:31 AM on August 28, 2016 [39 favorites]


Canvassing report here: late AM Saturday morning is not a great time to catch people at home. People with large "NO SOLICITING" signs in their windows are quite strongly not interested in hearing why canvassing =/= soliciting (they just want to know "CAN'T YOU READ?").

Oh, God. This is the most uncomfortable part of working with the full–timers for me. There's so much condescension for people who think the Do Not Call list ought to include calls from them. And they resent "flakers", too, meaning people who say "yeah sure I'll come" without super meaning it. Because they're assessed, among other things, on their "flake rate", meaning those people get them yelled at.

I'm curious if people who know more than I do think these tactics are genuinely useful, because it reads to me as disrespectful, ineffective, and uncaring.
posted by rorgy at 6:39 AM on August 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


Under Pence, state gave incentives to companies that offshored jobs

"Since Pence became governor in 2013, the state has awarded millions of dollars in economic development incentives to companies that have moved production to foreign countries such as Mexico and China. Those production shifts have cost thousands of Hoosiers their jobs during Pence’s time in office.

An IndyStar analysis found that the Indiana Economic Development Corporation — which Pence leads — has approved $24 million in incentives to 10 companies that sent work to foreign countries. Of those incentives, nearly $8.7 million has been paid out so far.

During that same period, those companies terminated or announced layoffs of more than 3,800 Hoosier workers while shifting production to other countries, where labor tends to be far less expensive."
posted by chris24 at 6:59 AM on August 28, 2016 [25 favorites]


You can send words of encouragement (please) to Hillary 2016 volunteers, it's as easy as sending a text message.
posted by erisfree at 8:51 PM on August 27


The lurking cynics among us want to know if we'd get charged on the phone bill for doing that. Presumably we'd be texted back by the campaign and added to lists and things? Wouldn't it be easier to do that through a webpage anyway? Why a text?

And I, for one, fully support our text-thanks-fueled volunteer overlords. I just wanted to say, good luck, and we're all counting on you. [/pie]
posted by petebest at 7:00 AM on August 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


"Since Pence became governor in 2013, the state has awarded millions of dollars in economic development incentives to companies that have moved production to foreign countries such as Mexico and China. Those production shifts have cost thousands of Hoosiers their jobs during Pence’s time in office."

Well, now I'm picturing the VP debate and wondering how much killer instinct the cuddly Tim Kaine has. Is he too sweet? But deadly facts and a pleasant visage might be an effective combo. (Crosses fingers.)
posted by puddledork at 7:04 AM on August 28, 2016 [10 favorites]


Pence is having a good day.

"Pence tells CNN it’s unclear whether children who are born here to undocumented parents are citizens. What?"

Helluva immigration pivot.
posted by chris24 at 7:08 AM on August 28, 2016 [22 favorites]


I'm curious if people who know more than I do think these tactics are genuinely useful, because it reads to me as disrespectful, ineffective, and uncaring.

Exactly. All those No Soliciting signs don't just mean Don't Sell Me Anything -- they mean Don't Bother Me. No Soliciting is just a polite way of wording it.

These people clearly do not want to be bothered (perhaps they are sick, perhaps they have a baby who wakes when the doorbell rings...), and they shouldn't be, even if you have the best intentions.
posted by mochapickle at 7:23 AM on August 28, 2016 [27 favorites]


> ...most people's handwriting is so majestically bad I'm mostly squinting and using all of my paleography skills to enter the name as something like 'Erma Yaz(??)' with a street that, while theoretically in my neighborhood, I have never heard of.

Yep, I've been there. If you're going for accuracy rather than speed, Google is very helpful at deciphering illegible names. Just try Googling possible spellings until you find one that pulls up a bunch of Facebook pages, etc. (I usually search the first and last name separately if they're both illegible.)
posted by nangar at 7:26 AM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


These people clearly do not want to be bothered

I have always canvassed homes with "no soliciting" signs. I was ready with a little speech about how I was just trying to help people fulfill their duty as citizens.
posted by No Robots at 7:30 AM on August 28, 2016


Trumphemera: Trumps $95M Palm Beach mansion sold to Russian billionaire, who destroys it to build 3 tinier McTrumpistans.. Not gross at all!

A Powerful Russian Weapon: The Spread of False Stories
With a vigorous national debate underway on whether Sweden should enter a military partnership with NATO, officials in Stockholm suddenly encountered an unsettling problem: a flood of distorted and outright false information on social media, confusing public perceptions of the issue.

. . . They were all false, but the disinformation had begun spilling into the traditional news media, and as the defense minister, Peter Hultqvist, traveled the country to promote the pact in speeches and town hall meetings, he was repeatedly grilled about the bogus stories.


Ha, well that's because they don't have the savvy journalists with the killer instincts like we have in America™! Great newspersons like Joy Reid and . . . that one at . . . CNN? I think? Saving the people (plural) through rigorus fact-checking and double-checking before reporting decisively and taking no crap from lying PR tools!

*sigh*
posted by petebest at 7:32 AM on August 28, 2016 [8 favorites]


I have always canvassed homes with "no soliciting" signs. I was ready with a little speech about how I was just trying to help people fulfill their duty as citizens.

And you should stop.

I am a proud voter and excited to vote this year. I DO fulfill my duty as a citizen. Your knocking on my door and ignoring my sign makes your visit more about YOU than ME. And that's bad practice.
posted by mochapickle at 7:38 AM on August 28, 2016 [58 favorites]


It doesn't matter if you're just trying to help (and I'm sure you weren't the person deciding to bother them, but whoever did should know better). Do Not Call means "unless I know you personally don't call my number". No Soliciting means the same thing in the physical world. You're not winning support by ignoring their wishes and pressing forward with your pitch. It's just rude.
posted by downtohisturtles at 7:41 AM on August 28, 2016 [38 favorites]


The Clinton camp has been making noise about Trump being a formidable debate foe. I'm assuming (hoping, at least) that they're using the same technique Fox did to lure Trump into his disastrous debate with them: flattery of his intelligence and "strength".
posted by Anonymous at 7:42 AM on August 28, 2016


No Robots, if I had a No Soliciting sign on my door, whether because I had something serious going on like the MeFite on AskMe with the autistic child who was horribly triggered by hearing the doorbell ring or because just didn't want strangers coming up to my home, interrupting my day, and trying to persuade me to do shit, I can tell you I would not be mollified when someone not only ignored my clearly-expressed wishes but also gave me a condescending little speech about my civic duty when I told them to leave.

I would not be polite. In my view, you would have already been spectacularly rude by showing up on my doorstep despite my pre-emptively asking you not to, so I don't think I'd owe you anything but scorn. I'd probably also ask you to relay to your super that I had been planning to vote for your candidate, but that I was now pointedly going to avoid doing so because of the behavior of their canvassers.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:48 AM on August 28, 2016 [41 favorites]


Trump's debate prep so far is mostly just Sunday afternoon chats.
Donald Trump is taking a different approach. He summons his informal band of counselors — including former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani, talk-radio host Laura Ingraham and ousted Fox News Channel chairman Roger Ailes — to his New Jersey golf course for Sunday chats. Over bacon cheeseburgers, hot dogs and glasses of Coca-Cola, they test out zingers and chew over ways to refine the Republican nominee’s pitch.

Trump’s aides have put together briefing books, not that the candidate is devoting much time to reading them. Trump is not holding any mock debates, proudly boasting that a performer with his talents does not need that sort of prepping. [Emphasis added] Should Trump submit to traditional rehearsals, some associates are talking about casting Ingraham, an adversarial chronicler of Clinton scandals, to play the Democratic nominee.
So, yeah, this is going to be a spectacle for sure.
posted by mochapickle at 7:48 AM on August 28, 2016 [10 favorites]


I have always canvassed homes with "no soliciting" signs. I was ready with a little speech about how I was just trying to help people fulfill their duty as citizens.

Why I'm not the ideal volunteer - I think there's a reasonable calculation going into this. At this point in the race (August, not November), with the pretty safe margin Hillary has in the state I was in, I chose to skip "No Soliciting" houses for the most part. (We got yelled at for approaching a woman outside weeding at a "No Soliciting" house.)

For people who are curious - canvassing is not soliciting. Canvassing is also protected by the First Amendment (soliciting is not).

I would imagine, as campaigns are staffed by human people who have working brains and also live among us in neighborhoods (and therefore are not idiotic enough to miss the obvious annoyance "no soliciting" people display upon being canvassed), that the pluses of canvassing "no soliciting" people somehow outweigh the minuses. But I still would skip it unless in a really close state really close to the election, because I'm not into being yelled at and treated like dog crap.

In discussions like this and the pledge thing, it's generally helpful to remember that if something seems blindingly obviously bad/dumb and yet a huge number of fairly reasonable, smart people continue to do it, there may be a reason for it you haven't realized.
posted by sallybrown at 7:49 AM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


If you are saying that your need to canvass outweighs my current Stage 5 illness/recovery, that is bonkers.
posted by mochapickle at 7:54 AM on August 28, 2016 [27 favorites]


It would be bonkers, which is why I said nothing even remotely similar to that.
posted by sallybrown at 7:59 AM on August 28, 2016 [6 favorites]


I don't care what you call it. I don't care if it is protected under the Constitution. Coming onto my property and disturbing me despite all of the lengths I've gone to to not be bothered in my tiny space... If there is not a giant boulder rolling my way or zombie hordes I need to know about, JUST DON'T. Man, this issue is making me angry just to read about.
posted by thebrokedown at 8:01 AM on August 28, 2016 [15 favorites]


On AM Joy Greg Palast is talking about purging voting rolls. 7 million people on purge lists, most of them with names such as Hernandez, Brown, Jackson, Wong, Mohammed.

Hmm. I can't imagine why those names are being targeted.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:05 AM on August 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


at my old place, we had a small sign up that said "no soliciting, polls, or canvassing, thank you"

It worked on everyone except Jehovah's witnesses and AT&T internet sellers
posted by pointystick at 8:06 AM on August 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


The campaign should have some door--hangers that say: "We saw your No Soliciting sign, and so have left this and hope you will consider voting for Hillary Clinton. Detach, fill out, and mail in the attached postcard for a reminder before voting day!"
posted by Windopaene at 8:06 AM on August 28, 2016 [56 favorites]


Given that he's incapable of change or learning anything I'm inclined to agree that mock debates are a waste of time for him and he's better off eating hotdogs and coming up with "zingers". Whether or not he comes of well or badly is pretty much going to be terminus by how you feel about him just doing his usual shit - I'm expecting the media to rate him highly and ding Clinton for things like responding to the actual questions or what her opponent is saying.
posted by Artw at 8:07 AM on August 28, 2016 [6 favorites]


Mod note: One comment deleted. We really don't need to have a throwdown in here about whether it's good to disturb people who have asked not to be disturbed.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:10 AM on August 28, 2016


I saw one like this, which I thought was pretty funny.

Another thing they tell you is you can leave literature on the door, but it's illegal to leave it in the mailbox. It's little important but small things like that I can't imagine the Trump campaign being well-run enough to make sure gets through to the volunteers (if there are any?).
posted by sallybrown at 8:11 AM on August 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Cold-calling makes me so anxious that I had to change my shirt before I went to phone bank, because I'd soaked it through. But my entire life is about powering through an anxiety disorder and lying down afterwards, so I'm willing to Do It For Her, although I need company for it. I don't know why I dread canvassing less. Maybe because it could be a nice walk.

sallybrown, I guess that must be why door tags are such a thing! I thought it was just more attention-getting because flyers on the door can't be thrown away with the pile of local grocery ads before you've at least looked at them.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:19 AM on August 28, 2016 [6 favorites]


On AM Joy Greg Palast is talking about purging voting rolls. 7 million people on purge lists, most of them with names such as Hernandez, Brown, Jackson, Wong, Mohammed.

Here's the article. I don't recall seeing it posted or discussed in this thread, even though it's 4 days old. We gotta step our game up. While we're in here arguing about dumb shit, there's a system in place to disenfranchise millions. An excerpt:
The latest tool: Election officials in more than two dozen states have compiled lists of citizens whom they allege could be registered in more than one state – thus potentially able to cast multiple ballots – and eligible to be purged from the voter rolls.

The data is processed through a system called the Interstate Voter Registration Crosscheck Program, which is being promoted by a powerful Republican operative, and its lists of potential duplicate voters are kept confidential. But Rolling Stone obtained a portion of the list and the names of 1 million targeted voters. According to our analysis, the Crosscheck list disproportionately threatens solid Democratic constituencies: young, black, Hispanic and Asian-American voters – with some of the biggest possible purges underway in Ohio and North Carolina, two crucial swing states.
This is what should be leading off newscasts and be getting broadcast far and wide.
posted by cashman at 8:20 AM on August 28, 2016 [57 favorites]


Vice has pretty convincingly assembled clues that (imo) suggest Fred Trump (Donald's father) was a member of the Ku Klux Klan:
Moreover, three additional newspaper clips unearthed by VICE contain separate accounts of Fred Trump's arrest at the May 1927 KKK rally in Queens, each of which seems to confirm the Times account of the events that day. While the clips don't confirm whether Fred Trump was actually a member of the Klan, they do suggest that the rally—and the subsequent arrests—did happen, and did involve Donald Trump's father, contrary to the candidate's denials. A fifth article mentions the seven arrestees without giving names, and claims that all of the individuals arrested—presumably including Trump—were wearing Klan attire.
The full article contains additional details.
posted by sallybrown at 8:32 AM on August 28, 2016 [12 favorites]


Election officials in more than two dozen states have compiled lists of citizens whom they allege could be registered in more than one state – thus potentially able to cast multiple ballots – and eligible to be purged from the voter rolls.

Who deregisters when they move states? Anybody? I registered to vote when I turned 18 a decade and a half ago and then moved away for college and never moved back. Should I be purged? I really hope election lawyers are fighting this bullshit with every ounce of their being because it's just blatant voter suppression. They aren't even hiding it anymore.
posted by downtohisturtles at 8:35 AM on August 28, 2016 [13 favorites]


How can people preempt being purged? I, too, always assumed that you re-registered when you moved without any need to de-register your old vote. Who de-registers? Is that actually even a thing?
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:40 AM on August 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


Phonebankers aren't calling random numbers. The phone numbers in the Democratic Party's database are in there because somebody with that number gave it to the Democratic Party at some point (often they signed up for something with their local Party or a previous campaign). Sometimes the entry turns out be out of date or a wrong number. If person asks not to be called or yells at the phonebanker, they'll mark their entry as "do not contact" and they should be called only once. Calling people who don't want to be called is waste of their time and the phonebankers time.

Some reports we've had in the Metafilter election threads of odd people getting contacted the Trump campaign make it seem like they're buying lists from marketers, but we're more professional than that.
posted by nangar at 8:40 AM on August 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


When even Politico, king of horse race journalism, is sounding your death knell...

- Trump might already be out of time: With negative perceptions hardened, his late adjustments on policy and rhetoric could sway too few people to matter. -

"For all the televised daily drama this race has provided, the final outcome itself is shaping up to be less dramatic than any presidential election since 1984.

“Kellyanne is good at this, but she’s got a very damaged candidate and it’s very late in the game,” said Tony Fratto, a GOP operative in Washington and former deputy press secretary to President George W. Bush. “I think it’s too late, in fact. I don’t believe he can change. All of this is trying to trick voters into thinking there is a better Donald Trump out there. There is no better Donald Trump.”"
posted by chris24 at 8:44 AM on August 28, 2016 [8 favorites]




Interesting pieces on Rissian disinformation campaigns, briefly touching on Trump:

RT often seems obsessed with the United States, portraying life there as hellish. Its coverage of the Democratic National Convention, for example, skipped the speeches and focused instead on scattered demonstrations. It defends the Republican presidential nominee, Donald J. Trump, as an underdog maligned by the established news media.

Margarita Simonyan, RT’s editor in chief, said the channel was being singled out as a threat because it offered a different narrative from “the Anglo-American media-political establishment.” RT, she said, wants to provide “a perspective otherwise missing from the mainstream media echo chamber.”


The general gist of the article is that Russia's disinfo efforts aren't aimed so much at promoting any one story so much as creating an immense cloud of bullshit that undermines trust in EVERYTHING - so you can see how they would see Trump as a natural ally.
posted by Artw at 8:52 AM on August 28, 2016 [26 favorites]


“We are going to get rid of the criminals and it’s going to happen within one hour after I take office, we start, OK?”

I suspect he might not be all that pivoted anymore. Or hinged.
posted by Artw at 9:01 AM on August 28, 2016 [10 favorites]


> Interesting pieces on Rissian disinformation campaigns

I was thinking "Rissian? Who's Riss?" but then I read further.

> The general gist of the article is that Russia's disinfo efforts aren't aimed so much at promoting any one story so much as creating an immense cloud of bullshit that undermines trust in EVERYTHING - so you can see how they would see Trump as a natural ally.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
posted by languagehat at 9:03 AM on August 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


I registered in my new state when I got my new driver's license, and I asked how to deregister in my old state and the DMV person helping me didn't know that was even a thing. So... maybe I will be disenfranchised. Awesome.
posted by Monochrome at 9:05 AM on August 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


How can people preempt being purged?

Be white. Have a white sounding name. Live in a white area.

I really hope election lawyers are fighting this bullshit with every ounce of their being because it's just blatant voter suppression. They aren't even hiding it anymore.

Second verse same as the first. Ten bucks Trump supporters put up with signs saying
THIS AREA IS BEING PATROLLED BY THE NON-PARTISAN VOTING INTEGRITY COMMISSION
IT IS A CRIME TO FALSIFY A BALLOT OR TO VIOLATE ELECTION LAWS
in black voting areas along with deputies and off-duty cops wearing red, their badges, and service weapons. Consent decrees don't mean shit if you do the same harassment under a different name by "private citizens".

The issue is basically the decentralized nature of voter registration and the execution of any "rules" coming down to the election commissioner's interpretation. Some more racist/partisan commissioners will happily strike the rolls. Some progressive commissioners will tell these groups to fuck off. Which area you happen to be in is a complete crapshoot.

Take the whole fucking registration system away from the states and counties. Give it to the SSA or start a new department under the SSA like a department of elections. They know addresses. They know if someone's a citizen. They know someone's age so they're automatically registered at 18. They can mail out before every election with polling places, polling times, instructions to get a postal vote.

The US voter registration system is a national disgrace and wouldn't be accepted in any other liberal western democracy.
posted by Talez at 9:05 AM on August 28, 2016 [40 favorites]


Over bacon cheeseburgers, hot dogs and glasses of Coca-Cola

And they're worried about Hillary's health?
posted by Miko at 9:08 AM on August 28, 2016 [23 favorites]


Pence is currently refusing to answer Jake Tapper about what Trump's deportation policy is. Just keeps saying Trump will let us know (in so many words). How does this guy even look himself in the mirror?
posted by sallybrown at 9:10 AM on August 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


How does this guy even look himself in the mirror?

My theory is he can turn off his reflection at will.
posted by Talez at 9:12 AM on August 28, 2016 [26 favorites]


Pivot/death spiral. Whatever.
posted by mazola at 9:14 AM on August 28, 2016 [13 favorites]


Pence: "Donald Trump has made it clear this week that not only do we denounce David Duke, we don't want the support of people like David Duke."

That's just a straight-up, intentional lie.
posted by sallybrown at 9:17 AM on August 28, 2016 [30 favorites]


From up the thread a bit, re: Pence's outsourcing fuckery:

An IndyStar analysis found that the Indiana Economic Development Corporation — which Pence leads — has approved $24 million in incentives to 10 companies that sent work to foreign countries. Of those incentives, nearly $8.7 million has been paid out so far.

During that same period, those companies terminated or announced layoffs of more than 3,800 Hoosier workers while shifting production to other countries, where labor tends to be far less expensive.


How the hell can this be justified even in the simplest cold-blooded economic terms? What sort of revenue hit will the state take from the loss of taxes from these workers' paycheques? Add in the increased strain on agencies set up to support the unemployed (or have those already been gutted), the loss of revenue to local merchants, the decrease in property values when homes have to be sold in a hurry... just what would Pence do differently if he actually hated Indiana?
posted by hangashore at 9:17 AM on August 28, 2016 [15 favorites]


We gotta step our game up. While we're in here arguing about dumb shit, there's a system in place to disenfranchise millions.

cashman's link needs to be spread far and wide. Voter registration drives are great, but we need to make sure that people verify that their registration is still valid. that and countering voter intimidation are absolutely critical.
posted by Surely This at 9:25 AM on August 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


How the hell can this be justified even in the simplest cold-blooded economic terms?

They'd negotiate a deal with a company but only tie it to one location/factory. So the company would pocket the benefits to keep/consolidate jobs at that location, and then close other locations and move them abroad.

So idiocy. Or perhaps political favors. I hope someone is checking on that.
posted by chris24 at 9:25 AM on August 28, 2016


Donald Trump Has a Massive Catholic Problem -
Back in 2012, GOP nominee Mitt Romney lost the Catholic vote by just 2 points, 50 percent to 48 percent. And the GOP has actually won the Catholic vote as recently as 2004 and in 5 of the last 10 presidential elections. But Trump trails among Catholics by a huge margin. A new poll from the Public Religion Research Institute released this week shows him down 23 points, 55-32. A Washington Post-ABC News poll released earlier this month painted an even worse picture for Trump’s Catholic support. He was down by 27 points, 61-34. If you compare the difference between Romney’s margin among Catholics in 2012 and Trump’s margin among Catholics this year, the 25-point difference is tied for the biggest shift of any demographic group in the Post-ABC poll. (The only group that matches that 25-point shift is white, college-educated women. Romney won them by 6 points; Trump trails by 19.)
posted by sallybrown at 9:25 AM on August 28, 2016 [20 favorites]


I can't help smiling at Pence sometimes. Guy was sold a ticket to be the evangelical Dick Cheney, and here he is fishing horses out of gravy tanks.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:27 AM on August 28, 2016 [10 favorites]


Donald Trump Has a Massive Catholic Problem

Was just going to post this. Who knew attacking the pope would hurt your standing with Catholics?
posted by chris24 at 9:31 AM on August 28, 2016 [15 favorites]


We had dinner right next door to the college that Fred Rogers made famous, and the road signs have little pictures of Trolley on them. He must be spinning in his grave.

You couldn't have been too far away from this lovely house, then. My wife grew up in Latrobe, and has remarked on several occasions how different it feels a lot different out there than it did 10 years ago, with all the gun show signs, the pro-life billboards, and now the Trump signs everywhere.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:33 AM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


That Indystar story about Pence paying companies to offshore jobs went directly up on my Facebook. That one needs to get spread far and wide, fast.
posted by Sublimity at 9:34 AM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Was just going to post this. Who knew attacking the pope would hurt your standing with Catholics?

Bill Donohue must have massive problems then.
posted by Talez at 9:34 AM on August 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Bill Donohue must have massive problems then.

LOL, I'd forgotten about this. Love this exchange:

“I don’t want to have a lifestyle thrusted in my face though!”

“What do you mean thrusted in your face, asked Cuomo. “How are they putting their gay on you?”
posted by chris24 at 9:40 AM on August 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


MSNBC host: "Howard Dean, don't you have to concede that Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine are going too far with using terms like 'racist' and 'KKK values' in this campaign?"

Howard Dean: "No."
posted by zutalors! at 9:41 AM on August 28, 2016 [110 favorites]


I just love the phrasing "Don't you have to concede?" Like, don't even bother with impartiality.
posted by zutalors! at 9:43 AM on August 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


Howard Dean: "No."

We fucked up so hard in 2004.
posted by Talez at 9:44 AM on August 28, 2016 [47 favorites]


Trump signs and pro-Trump protestors spotted on an overpass across Route 24 in Lafayette

Huh, I would not have taken Lafayette for a Trump supporter.
posted by homunculus at 9:49 AM on August 28, 2016


That AP Headlines (satire) twitter account is cracking me up. I needed this, since I knew the horse race stuff would kick in and they'd start trying to help the losing team come back, but it doesn't make it any less infuriating. And this fake AP Headlines twitter account is putting out tweets every few minutes. It's great. Here's the most recent one: "Trump doctor credible, per Trump doctor."
posted by cashman at 9:50 AM on August 28, 2016 [20 favorites]


Howard Dean: "No."

Fuck. Yeah. His father was in the KKK. He's been sued by the Justice Department for racial discrimination twice. He took out full page ads in 4 New York papers calling for the execution of 5 INNOCENT black kids. He's admitted he said he didn't want black people counting his money. He's a birther. He's called Mexicans rapists. He said an American-born Republican-appointed judge was biased against him simply because of his Mexican heritage. He's called for a ban on all Muslims and tracking of them. He's called for a deportation force to get rid of 12 million undocumented workers in 18 months. He hired the head of a website who self-described it as the platform of the alt-right. His "outreach" to blacks is nothing but offensive and stereotypical insults designed to reach whites, not blacks.

The only people who've gone too far are Trump and the GOP toward a white-supremacist party.
posted by chris24 at 9:51 AM on August 28, 2016 [67 favorites]


You know those Facebook posts where they have some stupid but simple equation like "7 + 7 / 7 + 7 * 7 - 7" and a bunch of people who have a clue and know how order of operations work come up with the correct answer and the other group just do it start to finish and come up with some fucking stupid answer?

This is literally this election.

And the media are sitting there saying "well people differ on the answer to this equation" in an attempt to stay relevant objective.
posted by Talez at 9:53 AM on August 28, 2016 [39 favorites]


We fucked up so hard in 2004.


Ah, 2004 when a voice raised in ever-so-slightly-the-wrong-way at precisely the wrong time could permanently thwart a candidate's Presidential aspirations.

All of us-- voters, the press, the politicians--we were so innocent then.

*gets a little misty-eyed from nostalgia*
posted by dersins at 9:54 AM on August 28, 2016 [26 favorites]


Donald Trump Has a Massive Catholic Problem

Well, let's face. It, they're probably next after the Muslims and Jews.
posted by Artw at 9:57 AM on August 28, 2016 [10 favorites]


My theory on whether or not Pence can look himself in the mirror is that he simply hasn't bothered to try since he became Trump's toady, er, VP candidate. As to the depths to which he has clearly sunk, I'm thinking that someone in his camp is keeping him up to date on the ongoing Trump/Coulter saga as portrayed by Owen Ellickson (@onlxn) in his Twitter account. He has no desire to be the next person in Trump's Most Dangerous Game game, so he is intent on being the perfect toady. Just my Sunday morning musings, but it might have merit.
posted by Silverstone at 10:02 AM on August 28, 2016


The voter purge thing is especially dangerous in the mail-in model. At least when you show up to a polling station and get (attempted) turned away, you know something fishy is going on. You can demand it get corrected, do a provisional vote, whatever the process is. At the very least, it would be visible in aggregate and become a story, "thousands had problems voting"

Would the same thing happen if thousands of mail-in ballots got silently thrown in the trash? It kind of relies on each voter checking up on it, which most won't do. And then when it's discovered, good luck getting attention on that.
posted by ctmf at 10:03 AM on August 28, 2016 [9 favorites]


> On AM Joy Greg Palast is talking about purging voting rolls. 7 million people on purge lists, most of them with names such as Hernandez, Brown, Jackson, Wong, Mohammed.

Here's the article.

This is what should be leading off newscasts and be getting broadcast far and wide.


Seriously. It looks like Reid is the first person in the MSM who has picked up Palast's story. I hope that changes this week.

Here's the clip on MSNBC: Effort to purge millions from voter rolls

And here on Palast's site.
posted by homunculus at 10:06 AM on August 28, 2016 [17 favorites]


It should actually be a crime to remove any voter's registration without due process. I'd like to see that introduced as a bill in congress, just to make the people against it have to identify themselves.

I mean, they have identified themselves. Over and over again. The Republican Party uses disenfranchisement as a legitimate tactic. All's fair in politics, that's their theory. This is not a surprise to anyone in this country, I don't care how much attention you've been paying. It's just common knowledge.

That's why I think our system just might be broken. It's based on the theory that bad actors will be found out and face consequences from "the market" or "the voters" and it will be self-correcting in the long run. That part hasn't been working for decades, in politics or in business/finance/environment/everything. Sorry Libertarians, your core principle has no basis in observed reality.

Once we legitimize "all's fair in politics", well, we might as well be threatening violence, rigging machines, and what have you, because the only way to look out for ourselves is TO WIN. Anything less would be giving it away.

I don't like the custom of the incoming administration forgiving all the crimes that occurred in the name of "coming together and moving forward" or whatever. When evil is not punished, it becomes a "do whatever you can get away with" situation with no down-side other than momentary embarrassment (which nobody cares about anymore). I don't want a vindictive purge on inauguration day, but crimes are crimes and should be investigated. It's tricky.
posted by ctmf at 10:28 AM on August 28, 2016 [18 favorites]


ctmf-

In Oregon you can go to a polling location and fill out a mail in ballot if you don't receive one in the mail. You get them two weeks or so before they are due. You can also validate that your ballot was counted online.

So in fact it is much harder to tamper with and the voter can receive validation if their vote was counted, and the "we lost a bunch of ballots" gets surfaced real fast when a whole pool of them go missing (remember, we know who got sent a ballot, and if an entire city block or apartment complexes go missing, it would show.

Not to mention you have ballots being handled by the post office, and submitted gradually.
posted by mrzarquon at 10:30 AM on August 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


mrzarquon, I know, I'm in WA and we have the same thing. It's a pretty safe system, but I think the #1 biggest deterrent to shenanigans is having to tell an irate voter to their face they can't vote.
posted by ctmf at 10:34 AM on August 28, 2016


Seriously. It looks like Reid is the first person in the MSM who has picked up Palast's story. I hope that changes this week.

During the primaries, Palast had similar stories about the Democratic establishment doing the same thing re: Bernie voters. Do we take him seriously now?
posted by dis_integration at 10:35 AM on August 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Would the same thing happen if thousands of mail-in ballots got silently thrown in the trash? It kind of relies on each voter checking up on it, which most won't do. And then when it's discovered, good luck getting attention on that.

The numbers of VBM ballots ordered, and the numbers of them voted, are public information. It would be very apparent if the number voted were significantly lower than the number ordered, outside the normal amount that get ordered but not mailed in.
posted by Cookiebastard at 10:45 AM on August 28, 2016


>>Seriously. It looks like Reid is the first person in the MSM who has picked up Palast's story. I hope that changes this week.

Greg Palast shot his own credibility in the ass with his actions during the primary, from promoting bullshit anti-Bernie conspiracy theories ("How California is being stolen from Bernie right now") to fully embracing US Uncut-type truthy NuMedia -- notably obnoxious "newscaster" Lee Camp -- and posing with that ridiculous hat like he was Matt Drudge or something.

I could not get away from Facebook links to video clips of Lee Camp and his obnoxious self-satisfied pro-Bernie truthiness during the primaries, usually relying on Palast as his expert witness. Googling him right now for this comment, guess what I found out? His actual show is on Russia Today, and shares its initials ("Redacted Tonight"). Now isn't that a curious coincidence?
posted by msalt at 10:50 AM on August 28, 2016 [19 favorites]


I'm moving this fall (just in time to be eligible to vote), and I legit can't figure out how to de-register in IL.
posted by you're a kitty! at 10:50 AM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


"Huh, minority turnout this year was really low." *shrug*

Followed by:
Shenanigans!
Tinfoil Hat!
Media: both sides
etc.
posted by ctmf at 10:51 AM on August 28, 2016


ctmf- I think the removal of the funnel point, preventing the in face confrontations and voter intimidation, does more to prevent voter issues.

It's the same reason why early voting is commonly pushed back on by conservative groups: that early voting access means people have a chance to get a polling location name issue fixed and try again. VS day of voting, that enables for only one chance, so everyone is going to try to disrupt and push it out so folks give up on voting
posted by mrzarquon at 10:52 AM on August 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


I used to live in NC and now I live in NY. I have literally never in my life heard of 'de-registering' to vote- I always took it for granted that when you register in a new place, it automatically invalidates the old registration.

I've never understood why this is so fucking complicated. The government has a list of every citizen. Why does that list not just double as the voter registration list?
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:58 AM on August 28, 2016 [18 favorites]


Greg Palast shot his own credibility in the ass with his actions during the primary, from stretching thin facts into an anti-Bernie conspiracy theory to fully embracing US Uncut-type truthy NuMedia -- notably obnoxious "newscaster" Lee Camp -- and posing with that ridiculous hat like he was Matt Drudge or something.

About California it lost the fucking plot. Like the stories with the nefarious sounding "x million ballots uncounted" when the SOS was still counting and certifying. It wasn't that they were missed, it's that they were still getting them certified. But they were still saying that the election had been "stolen".
posted by Talez at 10:58 AM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


IANAL obvs but I don't even know if de-registering is a thing.

As far as I ever understood, you are allowed to vote where your primary residence is, so if you vote there you should be good, and you don't shouldn't have to worry about anything else. If you tried to vote at your old residence, then that would be a felony. That's how I always imagined it to be.

From the article though, it seems that what they are really doing is just taking common names that sound ethnic and purging them from state roles, so Jose Garcia is purged without any checking to see if it's really the same Jose Garcia in all 5 states.
posted by maggiemaggie at 11:00 AM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]




it seems that what they are really doing is

Well, of course, because if someone is doing their best in good faith and removes the wrong name in error, what happens? Oops, my bad. They don't go to jail. And they shouldn't! But that leaves soooo much room for "oops, my bad (not)" [liberally insert sarcasm quote marks]. It's the very concept of doing it in the first place, combined with the accepted principle of "if you aren't cheating you aren't trying," that sets this up. And they know it.
posted by ctmf at 11:08 AM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


The people who brought you this dank meme that made me giggle are now on Twitter. Follow @DankJillMemes!

medical warning: side effects include severe second-hand embarrassment.
posted by sallybrown at 11:10 AM on August 28, 2016 [10 favorites]


I found this voter lookup page where you can check to see if you are registered. If you are worried about being purged, maybe look at this every once in a while.

Well, of course, because if someone is doing their best in good faith and removes the wrong name in error, what happens? Oops, my bad. According to the article, they aren't even trying.
posted by maggiemaggie at 11:12 AM on August 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


And ctmf I really like your suggestion that it should be a crime to remove a voter without due process.
posted by maggiemaggie at 11:15 AM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


@DankJillMemes

How do you do, fellow kids?
posted by stolyarova at 11:16 AM on August 28, 2016 [27 favorites]


Yeah, maggiemaggie, I'm with you, not arguing with you. I'm just mad that I swear this same story happened in 2012 and we had that long to get this simple thing settled, but didn't
posted by ctmf at 11:16 AM on August 28, 2016


MSNBC host: "Howard Dean, don't you have to concede that Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine are going too far with using terms like 'racist' and 'KKK values' in this campaign?"

Howard Dean: "No."


MSNBC Host: "But... look. We can't dispense with the false equivalence narrative! We don't actually know any other way of living! Sure, it sometimes blackens the eye of the truth or throws it down a flight of stairs sometimes, but we don't have anywhere else to go and don't want to be out on the partisan streets. And there's good times, too -- where we know that even if some say one thing and some say another, it's all either equally good or equally bad. You don't want us to walk away from that, do you, Howard? Oh, say it Howard, please concede Howard, please? I just can't bear it!"
posted by wildblueyonder at 11:22 AM on August 28, 2016 [8 favorites]


I got a postcard from Maryland letting me know that I had been removed from the voter polls when I moved to and registered to vote in Virginia two years ago. I thought that was pretty cool, but I doubt many states do that.
posted by peeedro at 11:23 AM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


I found this voter lookup page where you can check to see if you are registered. If you are worried about being purged, maybe look at this every once in a while.

There must be some kind of voter registration interstate reciprocity thing because I moved states in April. I just looked myself up and it looks like I am no longer registered in my old state, though I certainly didn't deregister.

Also, I live in the Deep South now, and apparently my voter registration lists my race, so at least in my state they don't even have to guess by last name if they want to purge brown people.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 11:24 AM on August 28, 2016 [8 favorites]


I'm happy to report that the Muslim communities of Rockford, Illinois and the greater Detroit area are carrying out civic engagement activities in their areas and running voter registration drives at the mosques.
posted by bardophile at 11:25 AM on August 28, 2016 [31 favorites]


OK, digging further, I checked out the NY voter registration form, which asks your voting history, and "Voting information that has changed", meaning your name and/or address, so that would be how they take care of it in NY at least.
posted by maggiemaggie at 11:30 AM on August 28, 2016


I swear this same story happened in 2012

Oh yes, there it is.
posted by ctmf at 11:30 AM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Apparently I'm still registered in IL; I emailed the county clerk asking to be removed from the rolls.
posted by you're a kitty! at 11:33 AM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


The people who brought you this dank meme that made me giggle are now on Twitter. Follow @DankJillMemes!

Ugh. Jill Stein. Give me a fucking break.

My issue with Stein isn't so much the Green party's affinity for woo-woo pseudoscience as it is that I can’t see any good reason—either from a short-term tactical standpoint or a long-term strategic one—why I would want to vote for her, despite the fact that I agree with more of her policy positions than I disagree with.

I can, however, see some pretty compelling reasons not to vote for her.

To get the boringly obvious out of the way first: unless something unprecedented and catastrophic takes place in the next couple of months, either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump will be sworn in on 20 January 2017 as the 45th president of the United States . Because this is the case, any vote that is not for Hillary Clinton makes it some (small) amount more likely that the person sworn in on 20 January will be Donald Trump.

I may have some big issues with Clinton’s policy positions—especially her hawkish tendencies—but I genuinely believe that Donald Trump represents an existential threat to this country, and, by extension, to much of the world. Given this, I would prefer not to increase the chances of a Trump presidency by even the most infinitesimal degree.

But OH NOES TRUMP!!! is far from the only reason I wouldn't even consider voting for Stein. I mean, I get that the idea of a protest vote for a third party lefty candidate is attractive: that, if enough people vote for Stein, it sends the message that there’s a sizeable bloc of left-progressive voters out there who aren’t being served by either major party.

Here’s the thing, though: casting that vote right now, in this election, after this primary season, sends precisely the WRONG message to the Democratic party. In fact, it is incredibly counterproductive.

Right now, we have from the Democratic party the most progressive platform they’ve put forward…EVER. A lot of the planks are based on positions that Clinton has held for years, but a not-insignificant number of them are the result of concerted pressure from the left during the primary season, as embodied in Sanders’ candidacy and those who supported him.

In other words, the message HAS ALREADY BEEN SENT. The Democratic party got the message AND ACTED UPON IT: the party definitively moved to the left in response to the message sent by Sanders’ left-progessive supporters.

If one considers oneself somewhere on the progressive / left wing / liberal end of the political spectrum—and I most certainly do—then one should want to REWARD the Democratic party for that leftward movement, not punish them.

But what happens if those left-progressive folks say “Sorry, Dems. Voting for Stein because reasons,” and then go ahead and do that very thing in November? The logical response from the Democratic party would be to say something like “Well, screw those guys. We gave them like 80% of what they wanted, and they still didn’t show up for us. I guess we should give up on ever pleasing them. We need to start triangulating again like we did in the 90’s.”

And if that’s what does happen, it means the whole push from the left was ultimately pointless, which would be pretty fucking disappointing after all the agita.

Finally, I’ve been approaching this from the (realistic) standpoint that there is a zero per cent chance of Stein actually being elected President. But let’s pretend for a moment that she actually could be elected.

Why would I want that?

Seriously. I might (and, in fact, do) agree with a great many of her policy positions, but there is no indication whatsoever that Stein or the Green party are prepared for—or capable of—the actual governing of the country.

This seems like a real problem with the Green party (and a lot of other “third” parties): that, rather than gaining experience in governing by getting elected to legislatures or statehouses, there’s just a constant push to light their donors' money on fire by running no-hope vanity candidates for high-profile offices. I know, I know, there are something like 140-odd members of the Green party who hold elected office across the country, but those offices are school boards, small-town councils, deputy mayors, and the like. Not so much as a single state legislator in the bunch; the highest-profile among them is a single member of the Minneapolis City Council.

In fact, aside from being a perpetual candidate, here is the sum total of Stein’s experience governing (quoted from the bio on her campaign website):

“She has twice been elected to town meeting in Lexington, Massachusetts. She is the founder and past co-chair of a local recycling committee appointed by the Lexington Board of Selectmen.”

Stein has more experience governing than does Trump, but that doesn’t make her any more qualified to be President than Trump is (and he’s, y’know, whatever is the opposite of qualified. "Unqualified" isn't strong enough, implying as it does merely a lack of qualification. "Dysqualified," maybe?).

I hate to say it, but the Greens should consider taking a page out of the Libertarians’ playbook when they select their candidates (not the amateur-hour convention, though). Gary Johnson’s politics are pretty loathsome, but I believe he would be at least marginally competent at running the country. He may be a lightweight on any number of levels, but dude did run a freaking state for eight years--and having run a state is just the teensiest bit more of a qualification for running a country than is serving on the Lexington Township Recycling Committee or whatever.

If the Green Party is interested in becoming a real, serious political party rather than whatever they are right now, they should look to find real, serious candidates with real, serious, experience governing, and convince them to run on the Green ticket.

(They should also consider actually getting their presidential ticket on the ballot in all 50 states, but that’s a whole other thing.)

So, yeah, this turned out to be a way longer rant than I intended. Sorry about that.
posted by dersins at 11:38 AM on August 28, 2016 [72 favorites]


A Donald Trump presidency could lead to food shortages in the US - article dates back to March, but with Trump's constant yelling about how he's gonna build a wall, it's even more relevant now.
There is no single, reliable national estimate for the total number of hired farmworkers in the US, but many estimates, like one from the American Farm Bureau Federation (pdf) hover around 1.5 to 2 million.

It’s an open secret in agriculture that half or more of those workers are unauthorized immigrants. The Farm Bureau, a non-governmental umbrella organization that advocates for farmers across the country, states that “at least 50-70 percent of farm laborers in the country today are unauthorized.” (emphasis ours) ...

The Farm Bureau’s 2014 report estimated that an enforcement-only approach that leaves almost no undocumented workers in the economy, like the one proposed by Trump, would raise food prices 5%-6%. It also predicted “smaller supplies of products generally despite higher imports.” American farms could produce 15%-31% less vegetables, 30%-61% less fruit, and 13%-27% less red meat. Some of the cost would be passed to consumers, but most would be absorbed by farmers. They could face net revenue losses of 30%-40% from the combination of higher costs and lower outputs, according to the report.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:41 AM on August 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


Chuck Todd flips out after Democratic strategist calls Trump a ‘psychopath’

Apparently it's only ok for Republican candidates, their campaign staff, surrogates, children and doctors to comment on the other candidates health and/or temperament.

On the plus side, we now know that Chuck Todd and MSNBC are capable of pushback.
posted by chris24 at 11:42 AM on August 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


Over bacon cheeseburgers, hot dogs and glasses of Coca-Cola

There's no way to convince me Bannon's Coca-Cola isn't 3/4 Scotch.
posted by petebest at 11:50 AM on August 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


Someone Using The Email Address Of Trump’s Doctor Demanded Money For An Interview
A Huffington Post reader pointed out that the letter mentioned a website that wasn’t actually registered until several months after the endorsement of Trump’s health was written, so I sent an email on Saturday afternoon to the Gmail address listed in the letter’s header.

Someone replied from the address a little after 1 a.m. on Sunday, saying he or she wanted money to talk.

“325 per hour in advance,” the person wrote.
This is only the beginning; it gets weird. (Also, I am really liking the editor's note at the bottom of all HuffPo's articles about Trump.)
posted by J.K. Seazer at 11:50 AM on August 28, 2016 [11 favorites]


Well of course Chuck flipped. He's only interested in the truth.

The truth is Donald's a sociopath, not a psychpath. Your bad Plouffe.

Chuck, eat a bag of clicks.
posted by petebest at 11:54 AM on August 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Jill Stein's policy positions are those of the Monday morning quarterback. Her qualifications to be President are like the Monday morning QB's qualifications to play in the NFL.
posted by humanfont at 11:55 AM on August 28, 2016 [11 favorites]


Indeed.

I mean, you know whose policy positions I agree with 100%? Mine.

You know who I would never in a million years vote for as President because he's utterly unqualified? Me.
posted by dersins at 12:00 PM on August 28, 2016 [37 favorites]


Jill Stein's policy positions are those of the Monday morning quarterback. Her qualifications to be President are like the Monday morning QB's qualifications to play in the NFL.

That's the great thing about being a third party with no hope. You can just piss on everyone, even those who are giving you 80% of what you want, as much as you like knowing that:

a) No press cares enough about you to call you on your stupid shit.
b) None of the people you're pissing on care about you enough to dignify your stupid shit with a response.
c) By citing a and b you can convince a load of suckers to give you money and go along with you for the ride.

And if the "wrong" person is elected and they completely fuck the country, you can blame it on the losing major candidate who you mostly align with and the people who voted for that candidate. Never mind if you siphoned or played spoiler in important districts to cause that fuckup.
posted by Talez at 12:01 PM on August 28, 2016 [5 favorites]




I think I could do it. I think it would be a miserable job that I wouldn't want in a million years, and the interview process is worse.
posted by ctmf at 12:07 PM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


This seems like a real problem with the Green party (and a lot of other “third” parties): that, rather than gaining experience in governing by getting elected to legislatures or statehouses, there’s just a constant push to light their donors' money on fire by running no-hope vanity candidates for high-profile offices.

YES. I have always thought one way for the Green Party to gain inroads into lower levels of government is to always field a candidate wherever an unopposed Republican is running. I encounter this so often, and usually just skip that particular part of the ballot. However, I would gladly vote for a mediocre Green candidate in such a situation than cast no vote at all.

It would slowly build grassroots legitimacy, and in some cases actually force local and state Dems to the left if they suddenly realize "oh shit we gotta stop leaving all these races on the table".
posted by mostly vowels at 12:07 PM on August 28, 2016 [19 favorites]


Immigration Flip-Flop Leaves Trump Campaign Flailing on Sunday Shows

If Trump is going to clarify his remarks, not even the chairman of the Republican National Committee seems to know exactly when that will be.

"You're going to find out from Trump very shortly. He's going to be giving prepared remarks on the issue I think very soon. I don't want to give a date," Reince Preibus dutifully told NBC’s Chuck Todd on “Meet the Press.”

Todd, asking what was likely on the minds of most viewers, replied, "Let me pause right here: We don't know? I mean that is remarkable that we don't know.”


2 points, Chuck. Very good.
posted by petebest at 12:15 PM on August 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


Eh, anymore I just call Stein's group the Brigadoon party; an enchanted group of pure souls from a mystical green land that only shows itself one special day every four years to bewitch the hearts of those fortunate untainted few who might join with them and be removed from our petty everyday concerns as the Brigadoonothings evaporate like the fog in sunlight once the election is over and there's policies to be made. Soiling their hands on such dirty business as actually governing would dispel the enchantment and separate them from their most holy high ground.
posted by gusottertrout at 12:15 PM on August 28, 2016 [48 favorites]


CNN contributor and Trump campaign surrogate Scottie Nell Hughes accused Hillary Clinton of the meeting the “definition of bigotry” for speaking out against racists and white supremacy.


Basically she's saying Hillary is a racistist, like a step beyond calling her a "reverse racist" (and a step beyond even the illusion of logic).
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 12:16 PM on August 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Sorry, I know, wrong musical, but not everything can be Hamilton related.
posted by gusottertrout at 12:16 PM on August 28, 2016 [14 favorites]


To briefly return to Trump's tweets re Nykea Aldridge's murder, Kellyanne Conway appeared on Face the Nation (CBS) this morning, and as always, a troublesome exchange occurred. As detailed in this USA Today article, she's being allowed to peddle her story that he had only the best of intentions with his series of tweets and that the second and third tweet should be taken together. The moderator did not seem to try to move her off that position with any facts which might put her position into question.

I don't expect reporters and moderators to be aware that different devices are accessing Trump's Twitter account, nor do I expect them to realize that the entirely different tones, sentence structures and language choices vary precisely by device used. My bar is relatively low on this matter.

However, I do expect reporters and moderators to check timestamps on tweets as part of getting the story or doing the interview. His original tweet (the eventually deleted one) has a stamp of 6:24 am. This appears to be original to him. The name correction tweet is stamped 9:26 am. The actual condolence tweet has a stamp of 10:48 am. This tweet seems to differ radically in style from the first tweet, suggesting that it was posted from a different device.

To go to Conway's point of taking the second and third tweets together, why, then, did one hour 22 minutes pass between the two tweets, different as they are? Did the campaign realize that the firestorm Trump caused with his original tweet was not dying down despite their correction on the spelling of "Dwyane" and decide to post an actual condolence tweet?

My problem here is that I haven't heard a reporter call him out on this matter. No one is asking why there was such a time spread between supposedly sequential tweets, nor were there as any marks on the tweets meant to indicate a sequence (1/2, => etc.).

If he wants to express nothing but condolences, there should be nothing but condolences in his tweet. The moderator shouldn't have allowed Ms. Conway to skate on this.
posted by Silverstone at 12:22 PM on August 28, 2016 [11 favorites]


Yeah, like not only is being racist not a bad thing, hating racists IS now. Those poor racists have just as much right to their opinion as you, so quit singling them out to oppress, oppressor! Same old formula: go the next step, so the previous one doesn't seem as ridiculous by comparison.
posted by ctmf at 12:22 PM on August 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


They prefer racialistist.
posted by Artw at 12:23 PM on August 28, 2016 [5 favorites]




I love volunteering for my local campaign headquarters and am going there this afternoon WHERE I WILL GET TO MEET REP. MARCIA FUDGE YOU GUYS OR AT LEAST BE IN THE SAME SMALL ROOM WITH HER!

um, any chance you can interview her about the DNC gavel as a MeFi exclusive?
posted by zachlipton at 12:24 PM on August 28, 2016 [17 favorites]


The killing of Harambe 3 months ago today reminds us to be a voice for the voiceless.

Stein is like Coulter, a troll desperate for attention who I personally think is best ignored.
posted by chris24 at 12:28 PM on August 28, 2016 [13 favorites]


Dr. Ben Carson. Dr. Jill Stein.

Know what the person who graduates LAST in medical school is called?

Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along.
posted by mikelieman at 12:33 PM on August 28, 2016 [8 favorites]


so a few weeks ago a knock on the door took me by surprise. For reasons somewhat related to the fact that putting on a dress while simultaneously throwing yourself into a wheelchair from the bed is difficult, when I got to the door I opened it and my boobs spilled out. The landlord was like *hello*

So if one of youse is canvassing in Philly and you knock on the door and a chick with wild hair and escaping tits answers, well, that person is me. Sorry about the tits.
posted by angrycat at 12:36 PM on August 28, 2016 [44 favorites]


TITS OUT FOR HARAMBE
posted by stolyarova at 12:40 PM on August 28, 2016 [14 favorites]


TITS OUT FOR HARAMBE

I move that, from now until inauguration, we make this the official signal to create a new election thread.
posted by infinitewindow at 12:42 PM on August 28, 2016 [49 favorites]


WaPo article posted upthread: If you compare the difference between Romney’s margin among Catholics in 2012 and Trump’s margin among Catholics this year, the 25-point difference is tied for the biggest shift of any demographic group in the Post-ABC poll. (The only group that matches that 25-point shift is white, college-educated women. Romney won them by 6 points; Trump trails by 19.)

Oh hey I wonder what demographic groups might have a lot of experience dealing with institutionalized misogyny and be kind of out of fucks to give

what's that you say, there are lots of college-educated Roman Catholic women in the US?

oh ok then
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:44 PM on August 28, 2016 [16 favorites]


It's better than Taylor Swift I guess.
posted by Artw at 12:44 PM on August 28, 2016


It's better than Taylor Swift I guess.

Haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
posted by Talez at 12:45 PM on August 28, 2016 [16 favorites]


Dr Stein just wanted to remind us that Harambe is dead and thus ineligible to serve as president, because he's still polling better than her
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:46 PM on August 28, 2016 [54 favorites]


Dr. Ben Carson. Dr. Jill Stein

I can't speak for Jill, but I believe that Carson is a very accomplished and lauded Doctor. I think a better point to be made is that just because you specialize in one field, you don't necessarily know squat about anything outside that field. Some of the most hopeless individuals I've met are doctors. It's good for them that they make as much money as they do because they wouldn't be able to survive without other people taking care of the day to day necessities.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 12:46 PM on August 28, 2016 [9 favorites]


Absolutely true, and I'd add that because they're often very accomplished in their own specific fields, doctors tend to have inflated opinions of their own intelligence about everything else.
posted by infinitywaltz at 12:51 PM on August 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


> […] just because you specialize in one field, you don't necessarily know squat about anything outside that field. Some of the most hopeless individuals I've met are doctors.
My previous GP was pretty crappy in his own field.
posted by farlukar at 12:55 PM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think a better point to be made is that just because you specialize in one field, you don't necessarily know squat about anything outside that field.

Yes, this. No one questions or should question Dr. Carson's credentials and his performance -- he remains a legendary brain surgeon. But his knowledge is like a quarry lake: Very deep and very small.

When I worked in higher ed, I came to call it "PhD Syndrome." Because someone was a world-renown expert in one field and had the credentials to prove it, therefore they had to be smart about everything. It nearly killed a department because a world-renown expert wasn't even halfway smart about managing money.
posted by dw at 12:56 PM on August 28, 2016 [10 favorites]


Know what the person who graduates LAST in medical school is called?

I dunno anything about Stein's medical career, but Carson really is by all accounts an excellent neurosurgeon. The deal, though, is that you can be an excellent neurosurgeon or the world's greatest helicopter designer and still be, in all the ways relevant for representative government, a total total smeghead.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:58 PM on August 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


Previously on Ask Metafilter: Engineer's Disease
posted by contraption at 12:59 PM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


The more usual connation of engineer's disease is for an outright acceptance of medical or conspiracy-theory woo, not just having firm opinions on matters outside their area of expertise. We might call the latter Tyson's Syndrome.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:03 PM on August 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


gusottertrout: Sorry, I know, wrong musical, but not everything can be Hamilton related.

And what if you're backing the wrong horse?
posted by Superplin at 1:06 PM on August 28, 2016 [10 favorites]


Is it just me or does Donald's MAGA hat have a total Charlie-Brown-oversized vibe to it?
posted by petebest at 1:11 PM on August 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


My favorite case in point is when an ex of mine, who by all accounts was an excellent Doctor, called me because he had gotten the idea to refurbish some furniture. He had bought an electric sander and thought it'd be super simple but wanted to ask me for pointers. And I happened to ask if he'd bought some plastic tarps or something to lay down because he didn't have a yard to do this in? He replied that he couldn't imagine why he'd need that. To which I pointed out that all the sanded wood had to go somewhere? After a minute of silence and deep thought he just replied "oh......well, anyway...[change of subject]" And I fully believe that he would have filled his apartment with sawdust before he fully grokked the issue with his plans.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 1:13 PM on August 28, 2016 [10 favorites]


In my mind "Engineer's Disease" is more about taking one form or way or method of knowledge that one is experienced with and wrongly applying that method to a different field that requires different kinds of knowledge.

The classic example being the Modernist approach to cities as "machines for living" as opposed to, you know, not machines.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:14 PM on August 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


I found this voter lookup page where you can check to see if you are registered. If you are worried about being purged, maybe look at this every once in a while.
That's a good start. Better would be a page where you pick your state, and it shows you (on one compact screen) a link to check your registration, the deadline for registering/updating, and a one-click button to get a reminder to re-check it, 3 weeks before that deadline.
I got a postcard from Maryland letting me know that I had been removed from the voter polls when I moved to and registered to vote in Virginia two years ago. I thought that was pretty cool, but I doubt many states do that.
The requirement to do this (and also contact any other info on record, email/phone/what have you) should be part of a nationally mandated set of minimum standards.
posted by msalt at 1:17 PM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


If you search "check voter registration" on Google, the search results have a specially coded pull-down menu that lets you pick the state you need to check. Nicely done.
posted by Surely This at 1:23 PM on August 28, 2016 [11 favorites]


The voter purge thing is especially dangerous in the mail-in model. At least when you show up to a polling station and get (attempted) turned away, you know something fishy is going on. ... Would the same thing happen if thousands of mail-in ballots got silently thrown in the trash?
Vote By Mail doesn't work like that. The state actually sends everyone a ballot in the mail 3 weeks before the election date. If you were struck from the rolls, they wouldn't send you one in the first place.

Now, you have to notice you didn't get one, but the news of ballots being sent out -- and later, the approaching deadline -- is all over the news. And you have 3 weeks to fix the situation.

Besides, if someone is going to pull shenanigans like DQing votes that have already been received, what's to stop them from doing that with same-day votes too?
posted by msalt at 1:25 PM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


I always felt engineer's disease was well illustrated by this exchange in Scrubs at rounds where Turk is trying to prove to Cox that surgeons can aren't just scalpel jockeys:
Cox: So this patient has fever of 103, renal failure and platelets of 25,000. What is the diagnosis and management?
Turk: *Bam*, put em down! It's obvious the patient is septic. I'd treat him with an activated protein C. Boyakasha!
Cox: Dr. Turk that's just an excellent diagnosis. However, with his low platelet count treatment with activated protein C would cause what, class?
Class: Brain hemorrhage.
Cox: And what would that cause?
JD: His death! Sorry, I got so excited. People were yelling things out.
See what you're paying for when you get a doctor isn't something WebMD can provide. It's paying for the experience to know, to the best certainty available, what will happen in any reaction and, in a lot of cases, taking the least bad one. This is what makes a good doctor and why a doctor's experience and knowledge is paramount which is why they memorize all this shit. This applies to so many things. In most engineering disciplines you're working with definitive parameters with well understood rules and reactions. That doesn't happen in a lot of parts of life. A lot of the time you're just looking for the least shitty option rather than a good one.
posted by Talez at 1:26 PM on August 28, 2016 [6 favorites]


As long as we're on this tangent, I think an important part of engineer's disease is dismissing whatever thinking has been applied to the problem already, even if experts in a more relevant field have spent decades on it and understand it far more deeply.
posted by knuckle tattoos at 1:26 PM on August 28, 2016 [32 favorites]


The "Hillary is the real racist" thing seemed absurd to me until I realized that the people she's being racist against in this dog whistle are white people. Whenever you point out that racists are being racist, you are being a racist because it's racist to accuse a racist of racism. Racism is, if course, their natural default state which they can't choose or change because it is part of their generic heritage. [Fake-ish]
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:30 PM on August 28, 2016 [8 favorites]


Thank you, MeFites who have pointed us to registration checking websites. It was quite helpful and confirmed that my old registration needs to be deactivated.
posted by Monochrome at 1:36 PM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh, Scrubs. I want to live in that world instead of the Black Mirror / Arrested Development mashup we have now.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:36 PM on August 28, 2016 [9 favorites]


Donald Trump Has a Massive Catholic Problem

Thanks for this, counters my personal experience of Trump voters, most of whom are white, blue-collar Catholics from Long Island, where I grew up. The people who comprise the backbone of support for racist NY pols like Al D'Amato and Peter King. Bill Donohue speaks for them, I think. I'm curious about what Catholic priests, for whom Bill Donohue does not speak, are saying about the election from the pulpit....
posted by Lyme Drop at 1:39 PM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


The "Hillary is the real racist" thing seemed absurd to me until I realized that the people she's being racist against in this dog whistle are white people. Whenever you point out that racists are being racist, you are being a racist because it's racist to accuse a racist of racism. Racism is, if course, their natural default state which they can't choose or change because it is part of their generic heritage. [Fake-ish]

Jared Yates-Sexton's tweet storm:
Even if Trump is soundly defeated the conversation has been changed, a swath of converts to white nationalism have been won. It's a long con

And while we're at it, white nationalism is a misnomer. These people don't care about country. It's racism and the country is the vehicle.

And at the end of the day this election isn't about insiders v. outsiders. It's people who want to live in a society v. nihilists.

It's people who still want to try v. frightened people who hide behind irony and bullying and nihilism

I've been trying to articulate it for months, but I've seen that constantly at Trump rallies. People who think this is a big joke.

And they do it because it's easier to pretend politics are funny than to address the very complicated problems we're facing.

They dress themselves in Nazi propaganda and memes without even understanding what it means. It's posturing because they're terrified.

The modern economy and terrorism and immigration are complicated subjects. It's easier to simplify them than to do the necessary hard work.

The Trump campaign is the equivalent of 4chan or a forum where you laugh at the world burning.

Look at the Make America Great Again hats. They're cheap and embarrassing. It's modern irony spun into a campaign.

Trump's hapless style, his ridiculous mannerisms. They're laughing at the process like it doesn't matter. As if they're not bothered

Racism and misogyny aren't solutions. They're symptoms of insecure people grasping for context and power. These aren't serious people.

Everyone's busy saying Trump is cable news brought to life but they're missing the point. He's the Internet personified.

He's a meme without substance. An echo chamber devoid of facts or reality. A forum with flame wars and nonexistent discourse.

He's a distraction from how complicated and discouraging the world can be.
I apologize for the long blockquote but it's probably the most insightful thing said about this campaign so far.
posted by Talez at 1:43 PM on August 28, 2016 [92 favorites]


Hillary as the "real racist" is the same nonsense that Gamergaters spewed.
posted by humanfont at 1:44 PM on August 28, 2016 [18 favorites]


Nuh uh.

What, you gonna call me on it, Chuck Todd? Didn't think so.
posted by petebest at 1:51 PM on August 28, 2016


> Someone Using The Email Address Of Trump’s Doctor Demanded Money For An Interview
A Huffington Post reader pointed out that the letter mentioned a website that wasn’t actually registered until several months after the endorsement of Trump’s health was written, ...

Not so. The Internet Archive Wayback Machine shows that the domain www.haroldbornsteinmd.com was registered and displayed a working gastroenterology website throughout 2015, up to and including the time that Bornstein wrote the letter (Dec 2015). That registration expired in January of this year, not long after the letter was written, which you can see if you compare the 10 Jan 2016 and 23 Jan 2016 Wayback Machine snapshots. That's hilariously bad timing, and of course someone else swooped in to grab it (it's now pointing at a bizarre singing teddybear website), but the website listed in the Bornstein's letter was legitimately registered and active at the time he wrote the letter.

There are many MANY fishy things about Trump's doctor and his letter, but the website on the letterhead doesn't appear to be amongst them.
posted by Westringia F. at 1:57 PM on August 28, 2016 [14 favorites]


Everyone's busy saying Trump is cable news brought to life but they're missing the point. He's the Internet personified.

Trump built his public persona from a few specific "me-centric" TV appearances: his Comedy Central Roast, his appearance on WrestleMania (where he learned "kayfabe" all too well) and being the "star" of "The Apprentice". (One of his biggest problems is not having Reality TV Producers like Mark Burnett on his campaign team) He is the Worst of American TV all bundled into one barely-human package, and any resemblance to the Worst of the Internet is because its cultural building blocks are made from Bad TV with an even shorter attention span.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:05 PM on August 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


Joey Michaels, while I appreciate your Fake-ish tag, I can provide anecdotal evidence that your comment is accurate, at least in some areas. I went to college back in the Dark Ages when affirmative action programs were starting to ramp up; my school is a state land grant university. One of the conditions for its status as a land grant school is that the required high school GPA for acceptance is ridiculously low for in-state applicants.

So, to get to the point, my second year at this school, an influx of students were admitted under the affirmative action programs. The students had the needed GPA, so that's not why people were upset. Those protesting (pretty much all white) were upset about the financial aid part of it and the fact that it was given to minority students, not their kids. Imagine their shocked outrage when the programs not only continued but succeeded in graduating students who otherwise might not have found funding to go on to college.

Not pretty in some corners for a few years, because these folks resented the racist image they created for themselves and decided the media were racist, not them. They couldn't grasp why anyone would think anything was wrong with their behavior. That media dislike remains in that area today, though with Fox News and Breitbart, perhaps they found news outlets that suit them.

I was a bit surprised by some of the people in my then-home area who were vigorously protesting this funding--I had never seen that side of them before, but I remember it well even today, some 45 years later :(

I think what I'm saying here is that, when it comes to personal beliefs, some people won't examine their own in the harsh sunlight. It's altogether easier to turn the argument on its head and throw the racist charge back the other way, even if it makes them look stupid beyond belief.
posted by Silverstone at 2:13 PM on August 28, 2016 [18 favorites]


um, any chance you can interview her about the DNC gavel as a MeFi exclusive?

Were I a braver person (and not literally the lowest of the low data-entry volunteers), I'd have done so ;) I did get to shake her hand and she introduced herself like I didn't know EXACTLY who she was and she was very warm and personable, talking about having already made the rounds at various churches that day and she's...not a super-forceful personality, but in a good way? She gave a short speech (after even shorter speeches by various local politicos, during which I learned that Philly's City Council President sounds like Kermit the Frog), and was charming and quietly powerful. It was great.
posted by kalimac at 2:55 PM on August 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


Then, in the name of democracy, let us use that power! Let us all unite! Let us fight for a new world, a decent world that will give men a chance to work, that will give youth the future and old age a security. By the promise of these things, brutes have risen to power, but they lie! They do not fulfill their promise; they never will. Dictators free themselves, but they enslave the people! Now, let us fight to fulfill that promise! Let us fight to free the world, to do away with national barriers, to do away with greed, with hate and intolerance. Let us fight for a world of reason, a world where science and progress will lead to all men's happiness.
I hate how apt this is looking at the election.
posted by Talez at 3:07 PM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Isn't it close to time for a new thread? My tablet thinks so, anyway.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:50 PM on August 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


Cortex asked that we wait until tomorrow.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 3:54 PM on August 28, 2016


Cortex asked that we wait until tomorrow.

We need a "big event" to key off of. What's on Trump's agenda for Monday?
posted by Surely This at 4:00 PM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


I've been trying to articulate it for months, but I've seen that constantly at Trump rallies. People who think this is a big joke.

And they do it because it's easier to pretend politics are funny than to address the very complicated problems we're facing.


I know this has been pointed out before, but I just want to reiterate that this was a big part of Rob Ford's appeal in Toronto. I worked in an office with a few people who thought, "Ah, it's just being mayor. Isn't it kind of hilarious to elect someone who's that ridiculous?" They had no interest in seriously considering actual problems in our community and solving them, or putting some thought into what policies a candidate might support in order to address them. Just in it for the show.
posted by LynnDee at 4:03 PM on August 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


What's on Trump's agenda for Monday?

The dark surgeons arouse him from his estivation on Monday. If the rash of nightmares reported in Manhattan last night are any indication, he's gonna be cranky.
posted by tclark at 4:05 PM on August 28, 2016 [6 favorites]




What's on Trump's agenda for Monday?

Midnight Tweeting?
posted by strange chain at 4:23 PM on August 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


What's on Trump's agenda for Monday?

I have a guess...
posted by downtohisturtles at 4:32 PM on August 28, 2016 [6 favorites]




Um, one of them already did.

Long firm birth certificates again...
posted by Artw at 4:40 PM on August 28, 2016 [7 favorites]




I'm just sitting here waiting for a "No seriously, delete your account" tweet from some democrat.
posted by cashman at 4:43 PM on August 28, 2016


His lies just have this childlike quality to them. As with children's lies, you want to laugh, but mainly you want to say you'll take away the phone for a whole week if you don't straighten up and act right, you hear me son
posted by Countess Elena at 4:47 PM on August 28, 2016 [15 favorites]


I'm just sitting here waiting for a "No seriously, delete your account" tweet from some democrat Kellyanne Conway.
posted by sallybrown at 4:48 PM on August 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


538 says that it is now clear that Trump has rebounded a bit in the last few weeks. This, to me, illustrates the problem. So many people have extremely short attention spans and every week Trump manages to avoid the equivalent of murdering kittens on live television he gains a point on Clinton in the polls.

I firmly believe his ceiling is lower than hers. But it's also become clear that the third party candidates take more from Clinton than from Trump. I'm worried about a 2000 type situation where young or otherwise disaffected voters let Trump squeak into the White House with 44% of the vote.
posted by Justinian at 4:55 PM on August 28, 2016 [9 favorites]


Slate: Pat McCrory and HB2 Falling Together
posted by kingless at 5:01 PM on August 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


You make a good point, but I think Stein lacks the seriousness of Nader, whose legacy was real, and this dank memery makes her look ridiculous outside of her fan base. Has anyone linked this brief graphic report on traveling with her? It's so humanizing and so frustrating. She sounds so genuine, but she talks in loops of dorm-room posters.
posted by Countess Elena at 5:02 PM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


> "Um, one of them already did."

... I think he actually believes his own bullshit.
posted by kyrademon at 5:11 PM on August 28, 2016


But it's also become clear that the third party candidates take more from Clinton than from Trump.

Third parties poll higher than they actually get, which means a lot of them will ultimately return to Clinton.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:21 PM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


I quite like the replies to Trump\s immigration tweet - among the noise, there's a lot of 'where are your tax returns?' banter. With seventy days to go that's a big ol' turd that isn't being flushed.
posted by Devonian at 5:25 PM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


The satire headlines of AP_Headlines puts this in an "objective" context:
As @realDonaldTrump Tweets New Dare, Veracity of Previous Medical Letter no Longer Under Review to Start Workweek
This Twitter account is so sad because it's so utterly believable.
posted by Talez at 5:25 PM on August 28, 2016 [13 favorites]


Bill Maher has been trolling Trump tonight on Facebook. Weirdly, I don't see the same post on either of his Twitter accounts.

I went back today and got the tax returns! [Facebook link]
posted by Surely This at 5:37 PM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump Sets Monday's Media Narrative For America Via Twitter

@AP_Headlines needs to be featured in tomorrow's post.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:44 PM on August 28, 2016 [11 favorites]




Also, I'm amused they're using the A&P logo as their avatar.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:51 PM on August 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'm curious how Maher got that close to Trump's plane. Yeah, I'm sure Maher flies private so he's not with the rest of us riff raff, but with Trump under SS protection (heh), I figured it would be hard to just walk up the jet bridge stairs to a presidential candidate's plane.
posted by chris24 at 5:57 PM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Every point the gap narrows, my anxiety ratchets up an equivalent amount. I hate election season.
posted by tzikeh at 6:01 PM on August 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


SS protection (heh)

USSS, please.

posted by porpoise at 6:07 PM on August 28, 2016 [6 favorites]


I was looking at the 538 poll and noticed a huge, catastrophic dip in Der Trümps numbers right around the first of August. Did he make some kind of gaffe then? Some kind of Snoopy-in-a-tank image or something?

It's like most voters were like, woah - no!
posted by petebest at 6:13 PM on August 28, 2016


Those are the first polls taken completely after the end of the DNC.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 6:15 PM on August 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


I was looking at the 538 poll and noticed a huge, catastrophic dip in Der Trümps numbers right around the first of August. Did he make some kind of gaffe then? Some kind of Snoopy-in-a-tank image or something?

Besides asking Russia to hack Hillary and engaging in a public shitfight with a gold star family simply because they're Muslim, no, nothing really of note.
posted by Talez at 6:16 PM on August 28, 2016 [25 favorites]


Did he make some kind of gaffe then?

This election has officially destroyed my ability to determine if something is sarcasm.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:16 PM on August 28, 2016 [24 favorites]


We need a "big event" to key off of. What's on Trump's agenda for Monday?

Can Trump resist criticizing football QB Colin Kaepernick for refusing to stand during the national anthem? Hard to imagine. The topic is burning up the football world, though the NFL, his team the 49ers, his coach Chip Kelly and his teammates are being surprising cool about the whole business.
posted by msalt at 6:17 PM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Nothing on Trump's schedule for Monday, but Pence has two events in GA.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:22 PM on August 28, 2016


Those are the first polls taken completely after the end of the DNC.

And after he insulted the mother of a dead soldier etc. But if you look back at June, those numbers are actually kind of a return to form, about where the race was before Comey called Clinton "very irresponsible" right as Trump was getting his "lock her up" convention bounce. So really what happened is voters decided that maybe they were right in the first place -- Trump was after all a shit show and the emails were not after all such a big deal.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:22 PM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


So really what happened is voters decided that maybe they were right in the first place -- Trump was after all a shit show and the emails were not after all such a big deal.

Why couldn't we have just held the election then? Why did people change back? ARGH WHAT IS WRONG WITH SOME OF AMERICA? How can you NOT KNOW who you're going to vote for at that point?
posted by tzikeh at 6:27 PM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm worried about a 2000 type situation where young or otherwise disaffected voters let Trump squeak into the White House with 44% of the vote.

LePage's Race War
Observing the horror that is Paul LePage, I really wonder what color the sky is on the planet inhabited by the “end the two party DUOPOLY” crowd, at least on the left.* Maine is, relative to the rest of the country, refreshingly full of forward-thinking, wise people who go to the ballot box relatively unconstrained by brainwashing of the duopoly. In the 2010 gubernatorial election, LePage demonstrated neither an inclination nor an interest in moderating or disguising his cretinous nature, leading to over 62% of Maine voters rejecting him in the biggest Republican wave election in a generation–a rejection far stronger, numerically, than Trump is likely to receive. But that didn’t matter, because Maine voters successfully overcame the Duopoly’s brainwashing, and split the rest of the vote three ways.

The desire, absent significant electoral reforms, for an end to two party dominance must, it seems to me, be premised on at least one of the following wagers: that a candidate of the left who only needed 35-40% support to win is more likely to emerge than a similar candidate of the right, or that a candidate of the left would do more good, if unencumbered from the squishy center, than a candidate of the right would do harm. Neither of these wagers seemed particularly wise to me a year ago, and it looks a lot worse now–if we approached elections nationwide as Maine does, there’s a decent chance Trump’s presidential chances would be orders of magnitude greater. A glance at the recent history of other FPTP democracies that aren’t limited to two parties hardly gives any reason for optimism here either. I don’t know which of these wagers the anti-duopoly crowd presumes to be a good one, and I don’t know why, but it sure would be nice to see someone actually try to defend either or both of them on the merits.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:27 PM on August 28, 2016 [23 favorites]




" chances would be orders of magnitude greater."

Uh, it can only go up to 100%. (Although, I guess if you thought his chances were currently, say, 10-2%, then it could increase "orders of magnitude".)
posted by ctmf at 6:43 PM on August 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


I guess he meant they would go up literally by orders of magnitude, then
posted by thelonius at 6:45 PM on August 28, 2016 [8 favorites]


Based on a quick review of the 44 US presidents the current chances of getting a far left or extreme far right President appears to be in the low single digits at the most. An order of magnitude increase is possible on either side going from for example <2% to 20%.
posted by humanfont at 7:00 PM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


How much do conservatives dislike Trump? We put them to the test. | 2016ish #2

From back in April, but worth a look. (Chris Hayes looks odd w/o a suit, for one) I also recommend the 2916ish series (a Vox imprint) in general.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:05 PM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


For those of you thinking about volunteering who haven't done it yet, here's a secret: volunteering is worth over 50 favorites.
posted by chrchr at 7:19 PM on August 28, 2016 [13 favorites]


I made it 60!
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:23 PM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


here's a secret: volunteering is worth over 50 favorites.

Am upvoting volunteers. Can confirm.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:23 PM on August 28, 2016 [20 favorites]


I just signed up for deputy voter registrar training next Saturday morning. I know Texas is pretty deep red, but you gotta start somewhere. We got city council elections coming up, too.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:24 PM on August 28, 2016 [41 favorites]


It's good to see that in the wake of Clinton's Las Vegas speech the indefatigable culture warriors of r/The_Donald are responding by creating pepes. Civic engagement! Lesser men would've signed up for phone banking or canvassing or something lame like that.
posted by um at 7:26 PM on August 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


It's good to see that in the wake of Clinton's Las Vegas speech the indefatigable culture warriors of r/The_Donald are responding by creating pepes.

The time has not yet come, thank god, that elections are won or lost based on dank memes alone.
posted by dis_integration at 7:29 PM on August 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


Guess who officially got caught sexting again (NSFW photos)...this time with a Trump and NRA supporter, from summer 2015 through this month, including a shot with his child in bed next to him. Class act, that guy.
posted by sallybrown at 7:35 PM on August 28, 2016 [6 favorites]


I am volunteering this Friday! I'm in a blue state, but my county voted Romney 60/40 back in 2012. Hoping this is the year my county tips blue.
posted by mochapickle at 7:36 PM on August 28, 2016 [17 favorites]


“Someone just climbed into my bed,” Weiner wrote.
Eeeeeeeeeeeew. Don't make your son into an innuendo.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:41 PM on August 28, 2016 [6 favorites]


There is not enough brain bleach in the world...
posted by mochapickle at 7:41 PM on August 28, 2016 [10 favorites]


I'm a volunteer I'm a volunteer and I'm 24% towards my goal of making 1000 calls for Hillary by Election Day. This weekend I realized I can make calls sitting outside on my porch. I wish I could send every person I talk to a picture of my yard and my feet up and my cold drink and hang up if you want to but I am having a GREAT TIME
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:44 PM on August 28, 2016 [49 favorites]


There's a man who lives a life of Danger
posted by spitbull at 7:54 PM on August 28, 2016 [11 favorites]


I'm a volunteer in just the kind of formerly solidly-Democratic, formerly heavily-unionized, economically-depleted area that is allegedly Trump's urheimat.

I have seen 0 Trump signs in my neighborhood, which is weird because one dude definitely has a 'blue lives matter' flag on his truck (also Truck Nutz!, this is all true). The only sign I've seen in my area is to re-elect our state rep. I have faith that one day my Clinton-Kaine sign will arrive and I will restore political homeostasis to this blue collar, inner ring suburb.

someday! somewhere!
posted by palindromic at 7:54 PM on August 28, 2016 [12 favorites]


I caught up on data entry in my office tonight! I went home early!!!!
posted by R343L at 7:55 PM on August 28, 2016 [16 favorites]


this time with a Trump and NRA supporter

Hey media, you wanted bipartisanship, you got it.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:57 PM on August 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


In unrelated but somehow apropos news, Sarah Palin supposedly slipped while running and hit her face on rock hard enough to need stitches. And somehow it's Obamacare's fault.
[true]
posted by spitbull at 7:57 PM on August 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


I just got back from meeting with a group of who have banded together since 2008 to do volunteer work for progressive candidates (Clinton of course, but we'll be targeting Senate campaigns as well). In the past this group has held an event where friends and friends of friends can sign up for volunteer work together, and I'm going to be helping to organize it this year. I love this idea because even though anyone can go find this stuff on their own, people do need that extra bit of handholding, and this year some people need it even more. This site has given me a lot of moral support in that regard.

Another thing I inadvertently volunteered for was researching alternative/niche ways to persuade people... and now I'm stumped because I don't necessarily think that's something we can really be effective at. It seems to me it's really a matter of getting supporters to the polls, but some people are really freaked out about their BoB friends and Trump supporting relatives. Does anyone have any suggestions?
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:57 PM on August 28, 2016 [10 favorites]


C'est la D.C.: "Did he make some kind of gaffe then?

This election has officially destroyed my ability to determine if something is sarcasm.
"

"You can't bullshit a bullshitter", my dad always said. True enough, but it was easier for him; there was a lot less bullshit in his day.
posted by double block and bleed at 7:58 PM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


In unrelated but somehow apropos news, Sarah Palin supposedly slipped while running and hit her face on rock hard enough to need stitches. And somehow it's Obamacare's fault.
[true]


Life's a Tripp!
posted by mochapickle at 7:58 PM on August 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Yeah, no, but, you see, now Obamacare exists people just engage in any kind of physical activity knowing that the State will pay their medical bills if they get hurt. Where's the moral hazard? It's literally the same as Obama pushing you down a flight of stairs.
posted by um at 8:06 PM on August 28, 2016 [15 favorites]


It seems to me it's really a matter of getting supporters to the polls, but some people are really freaked out about their BoB friends and Trump supporting relatives.
I don't think it's worth fighting with friends and family over Bernie or Trump, tbh. I've got a diehard Trump supporter in my family and literally nothing Trump does dampens his support because he believes that HRC is the devil and it doesn't actually matter who is president anyway. In my attempt to convince this person, I tried to tailor my arguments to his interests. I've brought up the disabled reporter thing (wow, that's terrible, but HRC is a corrupt lying serial murderer), the military "donations" thing (wow, that's terrible, but HRC uses her foundation to have free travel and sleep in fancy hotels and do arms deals with Saudis), and the Manafort thing (wow, that's terrible, but Huma Abedin is secret member of the Muslim Brotherhood) and I basically just threw my hands in the air and decided to zip my lips.
posted by xyzzy at 8:06 PM on August 28, 2016 [6 favorites]


I volunteered on Saturday, doing phone banking. I have to say that as a person with anxiety issues it is much easier to volunteer in a group. People who you can commiserate with over the bad calls or the calls where people act weird. Why do you need to know who I am if it's a wrong call? Seriously! Also, people around to celebrate when you get a good call. I converted an undecided voter! It was so neat! Next time I'm taking anti-anxiety medication before I go instead of after, I do think that might help. Also, I had to do paper, since I don't have a laptop and I tended to squeeze my pen really hard while I called, and it made my hand hurt.

The website has a lot of information about different ways of volunteering now. It's under Act and it's very clear. They have a quiz to give you personalized recommendations, but honestly I didn't like it as much as having all of the options available to see and pick from. One of the things I found was downloading the Hillary 2016 app. Has anyone else played with this? It's actually kind of fun. I really didn't expect that; I thought it'd be more cheesy and lame.
posted by stoneegg21 at 8:16 PM on August 28, 2016 [28 favorites]


Where does she blame Obamacare? Sure, that facebook post is stupid in the special way only Sarah Palin can bring but I don't see her complaining about anything more than that Hillary bakes cookies (?) and is generally horrible.

Unless she edited or deleted something? If so I want screenshots because one of the small pleasures in my life is calling out conservative politicians' lies about how horrible their insurance is and why it's Obama's fault.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:20 PM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Spotted my first Trump sign in the wild in southern Maine today. Sorta. They had cut the T and the P away on the sign (displayed front and center on their suburban subdivision lawn) so the sign reads:

RUM
Making America Great Again
posted by anastasiav at 8:25 PM on August 28, 2016 [45 favorites]


The Hillary 2016 app is pro. It's the most striking example of what a professional campaign looks like that I've seen in a long time.

there's a campaign dog!
posted by you're a kitty! at 8:25 PM on August 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


No matter what awful thing Trump has actually done, there's an imaginary thing that Clinton has done that is worse.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:30 PM on August 28, 2016 [53 favorites]


dis_integration: "The time has not yet come, thank god, that elections are won or lost based on dank memes alone."

Kent Brockman: Of course, this is just a television poll which is not legally binding. ...Unless proposition 304 passes, and we all pray it will.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:30 PM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Operation Taco Bowl
Sadly not fake.
posted by madamjujujive at 8:41 PM on August 28, 2016 [6 favorites]


I live in Anaheim and I work just up the street from Operation Taco Bowl. Can't believe I missed this opportunity to see Mike Cernovich.
posted by infinitywaltz at 8:46 PM on August 28, 2016


So, sending the rape apologist out as "Latino outreach", do you think they are ignoring Trumps statements re:Latinos there or making some kind of weird sick statement?
posted by Artw at 8:54 PM on August 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


Holy shit. I thought Operation Taco Bowl was just a racist appellation.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:58 PM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Fun fact: the rest of Trump's outreach is code-named "Operation Oatmeal Bowl". [fake]
posted by tonycpsu at 9:00 PM on August 28, 2016


Is it a real Trump event, or did C-vich just do it on his own to be "edgy" for attention?
posted by ctmf at 9:00 PM on August 28, 2016


Does anyone who follows this sort of stuff more closely know why Cernovich is still even...like...a thing?
posted by infinitywaltz at 9:01 PM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Is Trump the real world
Or is he just fantasy
Hillary's landslide
No escape for the GOP
Open your eyes
Look up to the skies and see
Kaine's just a poor boy, Pence needs no sympathy
Because polls are little high, little low
Anyway pundits blow, doesn't really matter to me

Mama, Trump just posted again
To his smartphone from his head
Got on Twitter, look what he said
Mama the campaign had just reset
But now he's gone and thrown it all away
Mama oooo,
Did he mean to make us cry?
If he's back online again tomorrow
Carry on, carry on, as if nothing really matters

Too late his time has come
His Twitter shivers down my spine
Head is aching all the time
Goodbye everybody I've got to go
Gotta leave this thread and face the new fpp
Mama ooo (anyway pundits blow)
Don't want this thread to die
I sometimes wish it had never been born at all

I see a silhouetto of a man
Chris Matthews, Chris Matthews can you do the fandango
Hannity and Limbaugh very very frightening
Rachel Maddow, Rachel Maddow
Rachel Maddow, Rachel Maddow
Rachel Maddow, Joy Reid magnifico
posted by humanfont at 9:03 PM on August 28, 2016 [52 favorites]


Holy shit. I thought Operation Taco Bowl was just a racist appellation.

"Operation Taco Bowl: Because Operation Wetback had already been used"
posted by Talez at 9:05 PM on August 28, 2016


Opertation Taco Bowl: Because they couldn't arrange a co-branding with Deadpool for Operation: Chimichanga.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:14 PM on August 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


AP Headline: Sides differ in opinion of the name of Trump's Latino outreach program.

[fake, I hope]
posted by Talez at 9:20 PM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Alternative AP Headline: Trump campaign accuses Clinton campaign of not focusing on issues in Trump's Latino outreach program.
posted by Talez at 9:22 PM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


maggiemaggie: Another thing I inadvertently volunteered for was researching alternative/niche ways to persuade people... and now I'm stumped because I don't necessarily think that's something we can really be effective at. It seems to me it's really a matter of getting supporters to the polls, but some people are really freaked out about their BoB friends and Trump supporting relatives. Does anyone have any suggestions?

It's time intensive, and by definition you have to be able to want it to not go anywhere, but when it comes to introducing doubt there is nothing like asking questions. I'm not talking about Just Asking Questions where the modus operendi is to ask leading questions on strawman premises, but honestly asking questions about what they think, what's important to them, what they like the person they're focused on. Note I used what questions - avoid why at all costs if you are going to do this because it ramps up the temperature. You want to keep it low key, casual, don't contradict them, and let them change the subject when they want to.

The goal is to get them thinking about beliefs they've simply internalized and thinking about the feelings associated with those beliefs. While it's true you can't talk someone out of a position they felt themselves into, you can introduce thinking through curiosity and openness.

Another option is to just state your beliefs as clearly as you can - but I tend to use the technique I put above in person, and stating my beliefs clearly on online forums where it's less focused and one-on-one conversations can ramp up negative feelings.
posted by Deoridhe at 9:24 PM on August 28, 2016 [16 favorites]


No matter what awful thing Trump has actually done, there's an imaginary thing that Clinton has done that is worse.

I think it's better not to engage Trump's true believers or BoBers. Studies have shown it just entrenches beliefs and gets people to dig in.

On the other hand, if they have nothing to push back against and are left alone with their thoughts, they're more likely to get bored or not get around to voting, since the odds are very high they're not really following the issues that closely in the first place.

Look at what a high % of rhetoric is anti-PC, anti-Hillary, anti-establishment. Don't give them anything to be anti and they'll fall on their face from lack of things to push against. Best response to a provocative Trump or BoB statement is, "K."
posted by msalt at 9:54 PM on August 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Trump is speaking up in Everett on Tuesday, and there's some grousing by the GOP folk around here. He's currently down by 15 in WA, the 1st and 2nd Districts are controlled by popular Democratic incumbents, the governor's race isn't close, and Patty Murray is barely campaigning because of how huge her lead is. There's zero reason for him to be there.

And yet, he's going to bring his anti-trade rhetoric to Everett. Home of Boeing's widebody jet assembly plant. Most of Boeing's sales are outside of the US. This should be interesting.
posted by dw at 10:02 PM on August 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


I think it's better not to engage Trump's true believers or BoBers. Studies have shown it just entrenches beliefs and gets people to dig in.

Yes. And more importantly, they WANT an argument, and they'll enjoy it, and in the time you spent arguing with them you could have had three or four productive GOTV conversations with Clinton supporters or independents.
posted by mmoncur at 10:03 PM on August 28, 2016 [8 favorites]


And yet, he's going to bring his anti-trade rhetoric to Everett.

Much like most people don't remember the name John Chapman but remember his activities, a thousand years from now almost nobody will remember the name "Trump" but everyone will know the cautionary example of Donnie Bumblefuck.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:20 PM on August 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


you're a kitty!: The Hillary 2016 app is pro. It's the most striking example of what a professional campaign looks like that I've seen in a long time. there's a campaign dog!

Yes, I've really been enjoying this app. There aren't many official "events" in my area (regular weekly phone banking/data entry/canvassing isn't listed), so I haven't been able to complete a lot of daily tasks. Still, I have a very snazzily decorated office and I've named my campaign dog GOTV (just V, for short) and I've learned many interesting facts about the issues and the candidates. It's super well done (but needs more décor items).
posted by Superplin at 10:27 PM on August 28, 2016


My dream is that a thousand years from now the only trace of Trump will be a single paragraph in an etymological dictionary describing one of the possible origins of the term "trumpence" (Used to denote an item of very small value; see also pittance; "His opinions aren't worth a trumpence.")
posted by mmoncur at 10:30 PM on August 28, 2016 [9 favorites]


So, is it official that we get a new thread sometime tomorrow? My browser could use it.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 10:43 PM on August 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


You have to yell "TITS OUT FOR HARAMBE" after midnight on a Monday morning. It's how it works now.
posted by ctmf at 10:47 PM on August 28, 2016 [15 favorites]


Hawaii's contribution to the decline of civil discourse, Angela Kaaihue, has been expelled by the Republican party. She intends to join the Democratic party and continue her run. [Real]
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:02 PM on August 28, 2016 [17 favorites]


I hope the next thread settles everything once and for all.
posted by mazola at 11:03 PM on August 28, 2016 [17 favorites]


OK its even weirder than I thought. Kaaihue was running as a Republican in our 2nd district against Gabbard but filed to run as a Democrat in the 1st district in a special election to fill Takai's vacated seat. No, really . Her Facebook page declares her half-Democrat, half-Republican. Neither party wants her.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:26 PM on August 28, 2016 [12 favorites]


Wonkette's profile of Kaaihue (née Stenger, born in Texas) and her religious war against her Hindu opponent is interesting. My favorite part was when she accused the Hawai'ian police force of conspiring against her due to their apparently "Japanese" allegiance to "samurai code." I'm no expert in such matters, but I sincerely believe that Mrs. Kaaihue requires professional assistance.
posted by xyzzy at 12:18 AM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]


Guy was sold a ticket to be the evangelical Dick Cheney, and here he is fishing horses out of gravy tanks.

I've never heard this phrase, and am still deciding if I'd watch the movie.
posted by lkc at 1:55 AM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]


(gravy incident)

The Associated Press (@AP) just now tweeted:

#WhyItMatters: Climate change threatens unpredictable changes. http://apne.ws/2btsqCh

While the linked article addresses "both sides," it seems pretty dismissive of Trump's denialist stance.
posted by salix at 2:31 AM on August 29, 2016


NYT: Democrats Step Up Pursuit of House Republicans Left Limping by Donald Trump

“It’s a remarkable situation. We, the Republicans, ought to be in a much stronger position in many suburban areas,” said Representative Charlie Dent of Pennsylvania, whose district includes both suburbs and small cities. “Because of the nature of the nominee, it’s going to be a lot more competitive than it ought to be.”
posted by chris24 at 3:22 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]


Downticket Dems getting elected on the coattails of the Republican nominee, what a time to be alive.
posted by ryanrs at 3:26 AM on August 29, 2016 [29 favorites]


Operation Taco Bowl… in Orange County
posted by farlukar at 3:34 AM on August 29, 2016


Much like most people don't remember the name John Chapman but remember his activities, a thousand years from now almost nobody will remember the name "Trump" but everyone will know the cautionary example of Donnie Bumblefuck.

He could turn gold into shit
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:30 AM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]


Hawaii's contribution to the decline of civil discourse, Angela Kaaihue, has been expelled by the Republican party.

Just to be clear, they kicked her out because she declared herself not to be a Republican in a Facebook comment, not for her race-hatred or religious intolerance. Her opponent, before being given the boot, was Tulsi Gabbard, and Clinton partisans told us Bernie was an awful human being for endorsing her. Against that.

Bernie's got his finger on the pulse of the down-ballot races, and his presence continues to be a huge positive for the Democratic Party this election season as he redirects his formidable organization into supporting progressive candidates who can win (not least of which is Clinton herself).
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:29 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]


Bernie's got his finger on the pulse of the down-ballot races

Citation needed. I have seen very little about Bernie doing much for down ballot candidates aside from his select pet projects, which include settling a score with Wasserman-Schultz in Florida.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 5:40 AM on August 29, 2016 [26 favorites]


Isn't Canova pissed that Bernie abandoned him?
posted by Chrysostom at 5:42 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]


Just to be clear, they kicked her out because she declared herself not to be a Republican....

Yes, but more than that, she was all over the place with rantings. I was following that situation last week. What I took away from it was this was a person who desperately needed some assistance. She was/is flailing and needs help.

Forget politics. This is a mental health issue. I hope somebody steps up for her.
posted by lampshade at 5:43 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]


Yahoo: The FBI has uncovered evidence that foreign hackers penetrated two state election databases in recent weeks, prompting the bureau to warn election officials across the country to take new steps to enhance the security of their computer systems.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:49 AM on August 29, 2016 [17 favorites]


Yes. And more importantly, they WANT an argument, and they'll enjoy it, and in the time you spent arguing with them you could have had three or four productive GOTV conversations with Clinton supporters or independents.

Right. Don't wrestle with a pig. You get covered in shit and the pig enjoys it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:51 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]


Seems to me that Bernie's "formidable organization" is not currently so organized or formidable. And in the places Dems most need a boost downballot -- and he could actually be helpful (Ohio, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Iowa senate races for example) -- I've seen no evidence he has even shown up to the game yet. What I noticed most was that he left the party right away.

I predict DWS wins handily over Canova tomorrow, just as an aside.
posted by spitbull at 6:07 AM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]


Seems to me that Bernie's "formidable organization" is not currently so organized or formidable.

Didn't a significant bunch of the formidable organization's leardership just quit in disgust last week, I'm going to say they might need some more time in order to up their formidability game.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:10 AM on August 29, 2016 [9 favorites]


NYPost is reporting that a lawsuit was brought against Bannon in 2005 because he fired a woman on maternity leave who had MS.
“Julia Panely-Pacetti, a new mother who suffers from multiple sclerosis, was terminated by defendants from her position as head of public relations and corporate marketing because of her sex and her disability,” states the lawsuit, filed in Manhattan federal court in September 2005.

The action was filed against American Vantage Companies, Panely-Pacetti’s then-employer, where she reported directly to Stephen Bannon, Trump’s top adviser and the chief of Breitbart News.

Panely-Pacetti claimed she was fired “while she was on a protected Family and Medical Leave Act maternity leave, even though she had been forced to continue performing her job responsibilities from home throughout her maternity leave,” the suit states.
The lawsuit was settled out of court.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:13 AM on August 29, 2016 [9 favorites]


Trump is getting serious:
Donald Trump's campaign is planning its biggest ad buy to date — upward of $10 million on commercials airing over the next week or so.

The campaign is expects the ads to air as soon as Monday in nine swing states: Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Florida, where the campaign has already been on the air, along with New Hampshire, Virginia, Iowa, Colorado and Nevada. 2012 Republican nominee Mitt Romney lost eight of those nine states.
It is reported to be a positive message about Trump's economic plan.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:20 AM on August 29, 2016


I predict DWS wins handily over Canova tomorrow, just as an aside.


Isn't she 30 points up? I thought that Bernie hung it all on taking out a high profile establishment Dem like DWS in order to prove his efficacy and have his "movement" taken seriously. Interesting if he abandoned Canova after all that initial support.

We keep hearing that people show you who they are. I think that's...accurate.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:21 AM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]


I predict DWS wins handily..

I am not a fan of DWS and have been keeping a slight eye on that race. Are the numbers for her good enough that TC is going to lose? I don't live in FL or have any love for TC btw.

What do you base your prediction on? As a person in IL, the outcome is a more political trivia than any thing else. It is just that DWS, as head of the DNC, is a figure who interests (and has annoyed) me over the years.

[bookmarking election results for that one!]
posted by lampshade at 6:24 AM on August 29, 2016


Her opponent, before being given the boot, was Tulsi Gabbard, and Clinton partisans told us Bernie was an awful human being for endorsing her. Against that.

I don't recall anyone calling Bernie an awful human being. However, in a safely Democratic seat like that, Bernie's endorsement in the primary makes a big difference. There is no way that Kaaihue could have won that seat, so he's not really endorsing Gabbard against her. The reason most of us were not happy about that endorsement was because of Gabbard's Islamophobic views and ties to India's Modi. I see no reason to exchange one form of extremism for another, and I say this as a woman with a lot of Hindu ancestry, who would have a lot to lose if the rhetoric against Hindus in this nation was amped up. I still don't think Gabbard is the answer.
posted by peacheater at 6:28 AM on August 29, 2016 [21 favorites]


This is a fascinating story about a 25 year old who is working the gullibility of Trump supporters. Meet the man siphoning money from Donald Trump
a scheme run by Ian Hawes, a 25-year-old Maryland man who has no affiliation with Trump or his campaign and who has preyed on more than 20,000 unsuspecting donors, collecting more than $1 million in the process.

In just its first three weeks of operation, Hawes’ PAC spent more than $108,000 on Facebook ads, offering an opportunity to win “Dinner with Donald Trump” — and netted itself nearly $350,000 in donations, according to federal records.[...]

By late July, Hawes – who calls himself a “registered genius, board certified hacker, and grape soda connoisseur” in his Twitter bio – had launched another website, crookedhillary2016.org, according to Internet domain registration records, and began promoting a contest to revoke her security clearance. The group’s Facebook page copies the “Crooked Hillary” logo that is used on Trump’s official LyingCrookedHillary.com site.

“We're raising $1 million dollars from small donors to fight Crooked Hillary's campaign of lies,” reads Hawes’ site. Hawes also registered imwithtrump.org in late June, records show, though that site remains dormant.
Not just money, he is also collecting emails so that after the election he will have a valuable list of suckers that he can sell.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:29 AM on August 29, 2016 [9 favorites]


Can you just do that? Can I just create a web site that says, I don't know, donate here to prevent an asteroid collision, and take people's money?
posted by thelonius at 6:38 AM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]


Correction: Canova on MSNBC right now, polls have DWS 10 points up.

And Canova just said Bernie hasn't done much organizing in his district
posted by schadenfrau at 6:40 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]


Can you just do that? Can I just create a web site that says, I don't know, donate here to prevent an asteroid collision, and take people's money?
Yes, but you're not a terrible person, so it would never occur to you to do so.
posted by adamgreenfield at 6:40 AM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]


Canova does NOT want to talk about Bernie and Reuhl keeps asking. Wonder what's up with that
posted by schadenfrau at 6:42 AM on August 29, 2016


Who's on the new thread. Come on people. It's Monday morning and this election isn't analysing itself. RISE and SHINE!
posted by Sophie1 at 6:42 AM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]


Can you just do that? Can I just create a web site that says, I don't know, donate here to prevent an asteroid collision, and take people's money?

If I remember correctly, there was an old website that offered to take payments in return for having non-believers take care of your pets after you had been raptured away.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:44 AM on August 29, 2016 [14 favorites]


donald got his phone back about an hour ago and he has been on a tear
Look how bad it is getting! How much more crime, how many more shootings, will it take for African-Americans and Latinos to vote Trump=SAFE!

Inner-city crime is reaching record levels. African-Americans will vote for Trump because they know I will stop the slaughter going on!

Now that African-Americans are seeing what a bad job Hillary type policy and management has done to the inner-cities, they want TRUMP!
i feel like if he could somehow exhibit some actual empathy for black murder victims and maybe, i dunno, make some handwaves in the direction of getting a handle on police violence he might actually make some inroads, but this is just sad
posted by murphy slaw at 6:46 AM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]


So what exactly is his plan to curb gun violence in cities? Is is just "lock up all the black and brown people based on pre-crime" or...? Because I have a feeling that might actually be a hard sell.

(Not like I think for one hot second that people of color are swayed by this nonsense. I'm just, as always, on a fool's errand to understand wtf he is talking about.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:49 AM on August 29, 2016 [11 favorites]


He's going to build a wall!
posted by Artw at 6:49 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]


What do you base your prediction on?

The polls. All of them.

Couldn't resist!

Actually, DWS has been representing that district in some way for over a quarter of a century. She is renowned for her constituent service there. She's a good ideological reflection of the district's somewhat conservative politics. She was Florida's first Jewish woman congressperson, a point of pride for many. And the savagery of the witch-burning enacted on her during the DNC leak fiasco will backfire among her longtime supporters, who are the voting rather than rallying type.
posted by spitbull at 6:49 AM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]


Also just to say I am super-psyched to witness the end of Alan Grayson's political career tomorrow.
posted by spitbull at 6:51 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]


Chrissy Teigen mocks Katrina Pierson on Twitter. Pierson mistakes it as a compliment.
posted by PenDevil at 6:56 AM on August 29, 2016 [23 favorites]


So what exactly is his plan to curb gun violence in cities?

Unleash the police, evidently. Can't see why the black community doesn't trust this idea.
posted by happyroach at 6:57 AM on August 29, 2016 [18 favorites]


Like many of us, I have a racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic family member.

Just received word that my racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic family member isn't voting for Trump. Apparently, said racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic family member is completely A-OK with Trump's racist, sexist, homophobic, and xenophobic perspective and is a huge fan of the build-that-wall idea, but won't vote for him because Trump had been unfaithful in his marriage.

Priorities!
posted by mochapickle at 7:02 AM on August 29, 2016 [43 favorites]


OMG Katrina Pierson. In case anyone thought she was putting us on. No one can act that dumb without actually being stupid. Like Manafort and Ben Carson, I think she needs to become a stock character in future American literature and cinema. She's Baghdad Bob for our time. I could see her having a whole career in front of her in advertising as an ironic liar, like Joe Isuzu used to be.

It's fitting her favorite movie is Braveheart. She is, at last, the True Scotsman of our times.
posted by spitbull at 7:03 AM on August 29, 2016 [9 favorites]


My favorite part of that exchange is that Pierson also accidentally a word.

Also, I think it is now abundantly clear that no one on Trump's campagin actually knows what sarcasm is.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:06 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]


For the kids here, some pre-memeocene era YouTubery:

Joe Isuzu.

Baghdad Bob.
posted by spitbull at 7:08 AM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]


OMG Katrina Pierson. In case anyone thought she was putting us on. No one can act that dumb without actually being stupid. Like Manafort and Ben Carson, I think she needs to become a stock character in future American literature and cinema. She's Baghdad Bob for our time. I could see her having a whole career in front of her in advertising as an ironic liar, like Joe Isuzu used to be.

I think she'd first need to understand irony.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:09 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]




My favorite part of that exchange is that Pierson also accidentally a word.


wha?
posted by zutalors! at 7:11 AM on August 29, 2016


So what exactly is his plan to curb gun violence in cities?
>Unleash the police, evidently. Can't see why the black community doesn't trust this idea.


You say that sarcastically, but there are millions of Trump followers out there who really do not see why the Black community doesn't trust this idea. They're like "Why aren't black people the biggest police supporters? Don't they know it's the only way to stop the crime that is destroying their communities? Why do they keep voting against their own interests?" People in Kansas are like "What's the matter with Black people?" the same way those of us from blue states are like "What's the matter with Kansas?"

It's almost impossible to bend one's mind around that point of view if one lives in the real world where cops can shoot innocent, unarmed black people and not even lose their jobs, but if you can pretzel your mind around like the cameras at Trump's rallies... That sarcastic line is exactly what millions of people actually think. Millions!
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:12 AM on August 29, 2016 [10 favorites]


She's missing the word "do" in her sentence.

"Accidentally a word" is internet for "accidentally left out a word."
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:12 AM on August 29, 2016 [11 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: the smoke from the exhaust means it's giving you more performance at better gas mileage! Front-wheel drive subcompacts are collector's items. I got a guy coming back after lunch with cash. Vote This Car!

[/fake]
posted by petebest at 7:15 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]


> Bernie's got his finger on the pulse of the down-ballot races

> Citation needed. I have seen very little about Bernie doing much for down ballot candidates aside from his select pet projects, which include settling a score with Wasserman-Schultz in Florida.

It's not really about Bernie anymore. Our Revolution is about keeping the local grassroots Bernie groups together and active. Bernie gave us a pep talk last week with a good dose of 'thanks for volunteering in the primaries'. Our group locally is supporting a moderate Democrat for Congress. If she wins, she'll be another Democrat in Congress and we'll keep the anti-immigrant Tea-Party guy she's running against from taking the seat. And we've started plotting a little bit about next year's local races. (They're in odd numbered years in my state.) Repeated across the country, this can make difference.
posted by nangar at 7:17 AM on August 29, 2016 [18 favorites]


Does anyone else see a consistent shape on the election maps? There's a red tilde ~ (really more of a ◠◡) of Trump support (with the tips being Arizona and Indiana).

It's like a wave of perplexity.

I feel like there's some sort of meaning there that I'm unable to extract.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:18 AM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]


CHRISSY TEIGEN: Katrina, you are literally too stupid to insult.
KATRINA PIERSON: Thank you!

[fake, though a fair paraphrase, in my opinion]
posted by savetheclocktower at 7:20 AM on August 29, 2016 [26 favorites]


I think she'd first need to understand irony.

That's just it. She doesn't have to understand it. She embodies it.

I keep thinking of Stephen Wright's bit where he sees the UFO crash and three aliens get out of it and walk over to him and they're all one inch tall. And they say they're from outer space, take us to your leader, and he says "wow, are you really one inch tall?" And they say "No we're just really far away."

Or another version where the kid taking her first flight waits patiently after they take off until her mommy is showing her the clouds outside the window, until she finally demands to know when they will start to get smaller.

ETA: In particular reference to "He's just changing the WORDS that he is using."
posted by spitbull at 7:22 AM on August 29, 2016


So what exactly is his plan to curb gun violence in cities?

"The plan is to stop the failed policies of crooked Hillary. She doesn't care about black people. We need to stop her before it's too late. Making inner cities safe again will be my top priority. In fact, I promise. That I will take. Effective measures that will make our cites safe again. Within 24 hours after sworn into office. You heard me. I'll give you my word for it. And violence will go down so fast, you won't believe it. You won't believe it. And let me tell you one more thing: The African community knows that Trump is their only chance. That's why our support is growing so fast. Only I can save them from the failed policies of crooked Hillary."
posted by sour cream at 7:22 AM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]


Politico: Meet the man [Ian Hawes] siphoning money from Donald Trump
"A 25-year-old with no Trump ties raises $1 million by dangling 'dinner' with the GOP nominee."
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:23 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]


See, he is already creating jobs! #conartistsforTrump
posted by spitbull at 7:26 AM on August 29, 2016 [11 favorites]


"Accidentally a word" is internet for "accidentally left out a word."

TIL!
posted by aspersioncast at 7:29 AM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]


Really wonderful article by Ella Dawson: Hillary Clinton, The Alt-Right, And Me
Donald Trump emboldens the Alt-Right as he borrows their language and hires their leaders. The tone on the Internet has gotten worse, not better, since he declared his candidacy last year. Even if he loses the election, Trump has done lasting damage by empowering hate groups that conflate voicing their prejudiced views with “protecting free speech.”

The Alt-Right claims to be a trendy new generation of conservatism, pushing boundaries and buttons in response to political correctness and liberal oversensitivity. Really, it’s a hipster rebranding of white supremacy, misogyny and bigotry for the digital era. We may want to believe it’s just the Internet, just the usual harmless roar of haters and pre-teen boys blowing off steam online. But that ignores the massive chilling effect the Alt-Right has on women, people of color, non-binary and LGBTQ folks who have been intimidated into going quiet. There is a war happening online every single day, and most are unaware it exists.
posted by stolyarova at 7:32 AM on August 29, 2016 [30 favorites]



"Accidentally a word" is internet for "accidentally left out a word."

TIL!


Me too and I thought I was fluent in internet.
posted by zutalors! at 7:37 AM on August 29, 2016


Noted probably just in time for this thread to close, but thank you everyone so much for helping me keep my election sanity. I've been busy since the convention and haven't been posting, but I've read every word and I love you all deeply in that weirdly intimate internet way.

(Also, all of you Rome-travelers...random aside that I'm heading to Rome next week myself, and I'll admit to having a thought in the back of my mind that "omg I'll be so behind on Metafilter by the time I get back that I won't catch up before the election!" It'll be Tehhund and I, caught in a Sisyphean task of wading perpetually uphill against the tide of Trump bullshit.)
posted by Salieri at 7:42 AM on August 29, 2016 [19 favorites]


I think it is now abundantly clear that no one on Trump's campaign actually knows what sarcasm is.

Literally.
posted by JackFlash at 7:44 AM on August 29, 2016 [16 favorites]



Me too and I thought I was fluent in internet.

* a href! a href! a href! *
posted by y2karl at 7:56 AM on August 29, 2016 [10 favorites]


ZIPPITY BOP!
posted by languagehat at 8:08 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]


Bless her heart, Huma has done the thing.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:25 AM on August 29, 2016 [38 favorites]


Bless her heart, Huma has done the thing.

I doubt this will be enough to stop the media from using Weiner for this week's episode of False Equivalence Mad Libs.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:28 AM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]


She is renowned for her constituent service there.

It's debatable as to whether or not "Constituent service" is something to brag about. There's an impossibly-fine line between constituent services and actual-corruption.

The government should work for its people without having to phone a congressperson to grease the wheels.

On similar levels, there are congresspeople who have possibly represented the interests of their constituents a little... too well. Ted Stevens and Robert Byrd managed to direct huge (and often unwarranted) piles of money toward their states.
posted by schmod at 8:30 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]


I doubt this will be enough to stop the media from using Weiner for this week's episode of False Equivalence Mad Libs.

To paraphrase someone wittier than me: Because white crotch bulges are totally equivalent to white nationalism.
posted by Talez at 8:30 AM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]


Damn. Poor Huma.
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:32 AM on August 29, 2016 [13 favorites]


Bless her heart, Huma has done the thing.

The dude has a serious problem which he's been unwilling and/or unable to get real help with.

But let's be real, the only reason Trump doesn't send dick pics is that he's a nevernude and the only thing he knows how to do with his phone is shit tweet.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:33 AM on August 29, 2016 [12 favorites]


Bless her heart, Huma has done the thing.

Oh, good. Earlier today, I was feeling conflicted about whether or not it was okay to have reservations about Huma Abedin's role in a hypothetical Clinton Administration, purely on the basis that I don't want her [now-former] husband anywhere near the White House.
posted by schmod at 8:33 AM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]


I so feel for Huma Abedin. No person deserves this guanopsychotic (tm soren_lorensen) marriage partner. I respect her action and her wish for privacy.
posted by Silverstone at 8:33 AM on August 29, 2016 [13 favorites]


I am neither praising not condemning DWS' constituent service record, just pointing out a long history of good constituent service being a hallmark of the power of incumbency and a reason people win elections.

Hillary Clinton too was known for excellent constituent service during her senate years.
posted by spitbull at 8:35 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]




I hate, hate, HATE that a woman's agonizing private decision is newsworthy, and will be used as a cudgel against her and her boss. HATE IT. But I'm glad she's kicking that shitheel to the curb. No one deserves to be stuck with that guy.
posted by palomar at 8:37 AM on August 29, 2016 [27 favorites]


I'm working on a new election post. Will post it when done.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:43 AM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]


Damn, sorry! I didn't check this thread again while I was crafting my own (hasty) post.

NEW THREAD! NEW THREAD!
posted by filthy light thief at 8:53 AM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]


I had even read to the end of the thread (half an hour ago) and kept refreshing the front page to make sure I wasn't doubling up on new posts. You get dibs on the next on ;)
posted by filthy light thief at 8:55 AM on August 29, 2016


Republicans stigmatize divorce as creating a "broken home". They bash poor people for higher rates of divorce presenting it as evidence of moral failing.

Yet they let Trump and other white men break their vows and divorce again and again; staying silent as Trump gets a new trophy bride. But Hillary and Huma who try to live up to their vows and work through the failings of their partners; for them there is nothing but contempt from these Republican moralists. Should women like Huma finally decide they have had enough, they face further scolding. Bless her heart?! At least she has one.
posted by humanfont at 8:55 AM on August 29, 2016 [30 favorites]


dw, I'm pretty sure that I heard Trump has a fundraiser in Bellevue Tuesday. He has famously said that he "always" has rallies in the area of his fundraisers, so I assume this Everett shindig relates to that policy.

As to why Everett, I'm guessing he didn't feel that a reststop along I-5 north of Everett had enough gravitas for such a noble presence as himself, even though the bulk of his West-of-the Cascades support is north of Everett and south of Olympia. It might also have to do with the logistics of getting him out of the area so he can get back to NYC in time for his traditional four hours of sleep. He doesn't want to spend extra time driving to his actual support, figuring they'd be thrilled to have the privilege of driving to see him.

Just a guess, though. While I hope he isn't stupid enough to bring up trade agreements in Everett, it's hard to say what he'll do. It seems to me that none of his other policy positions have much benefit for the citizens of this state, either, so he really doesn't have much he can talk about intelligently.

I've always thought his rally with fundraiser policy was a sop to his ego as well as a dig at his Party for making him do the fundraisers. He at least gets to see his minions (with all due regret to The Minions) after he's properly obeyed the Party's requirement that he raise money once in a great while.
posted by Silverstone at 8:57 AM on August 29, 2016


Uhh, well I guess no new post from me today, lol.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:01 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]


There are other, happier things to post! Like a 360 degree time-lapse video of the Norther Lights in Alaska, or a world-record setting flight by Darshan the eagle as it flies from the top of the world's tallest building - the Burj Kalifa - soaring above Dubai, then diving with the exhilarating speed of 170 kph (105.6 mph) towards his handler.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:09 AM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]


... this is John Ellis Bush we're talking about, right?

I was shocked too! But I guess he fell in love with and married a Latin woman, who made him become a better man and shit - like, their kids were experiencing racism in Texas, and she gave him an ultimatum that they could either move to Florida, or Mexico, but they were not going to live somewhere that their kids were going to get that horrible shit. And their kids are bilingual and frequently speak Spanish in the home, and Jeb really gets and loves the culture. I knew NONE of this from Republican circles, FYI - I chalked him up as Just Another Bush. A mefite who will remain anonymous unless he chooses sent me a really great article while I was going crazy during the RNC and it gave me a lot of hope for humanity.
posted by corb at 9:32 AM on August 29, 2016 [18 favorites]


Also, all of you Rome-travelers...random aside that I'm heading to Rome next week myself

Ha, my roommate and I have a bet going about this election - when I win, she'll be booking us a trip to Rome as well! [knocks wood, touches iron, spins round three times and spits] Let's do a Rome meetup!
posted by EatTheWeek at 9:41 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]


A mefite who will remain anonymous unless he chooses sent me a really great article while I was going crazy during the RNC and it gave me a lot of hope for humanity.

I'm interested to see the article. Can has link plz?
posted by dersins at 9:50 AM on August 29, 2016


Sure! It turned out to be a tumblr post actually, but with other newspaper articles cited!
posted by corb at 11:19 AM on August 29, 2016 [17 favorites]


Thanks, corb.
posted by dersins at 11:26 AM on August 29, 2016


That's a super interesting take on Bush--not one I've seen before.
posted by dersins at 11:38 AM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]


I chalked him up as Just Another Bush.

He's just another Republican who has horrible policies across the board, whether it is healthcare, poverty, the economy, jobs, climate change, immigration or bigotry but who suddenly discovers one tiny bit of empathy when it impacts their family personally. Sorry, but you get no credit for empathy when it is motivated by a narrow selfish concern.

Other examples are Dick Cheney and Rob Portman on gays after family members came out or any number of Republican politicians who suddenly discovered that medical research is important when a family member contracts a disease.
posted by JackFlash at 12:03 PM on August 29, 2016 [16 favorites]


Sorry, but you get no credit for empathy when it is motivated by a narrow selfish concern.

Completely disagree.

Certainly, managing to not be an intolerant dick on one issue doesn't excuse being an intolerant dick on other issues, but the not-being-an-intolerant-dick part--no matter how small--should still be lauded, regardless of the motivation.

Actions trump motivations, because actions are what actually affect the world.
posted by dersins at 1:00 PM on August 29, 2016 [9 favorites]


Since it scrolled off Recent Activity, new thread.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:33 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]


I hold him responsible, along with generous assists from then-attorneys Ted Cruz and John Roberts, for giving us his horrorshow of a brother in 2000, for enabling the disenfranchisement of millions of voters for purely political reasons, and for helping birth the many blatantly bigoted voter suppression laws that have been welcomed with open arms by so-called "moderate Republicans" and even libertarians.

For that alone, never mind the fuckery he's spouted in the years since, I award Bush no points, and I don't particularly care if God has mercy on his soul.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:34 PM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]


I was shocked too! But I guess he fell in love with and married a Latin woman, who made him become a better man and shit - like, their kids were experiencing racism in Texas, and she gave him an ultimatum that they could either move to Florida, or Mexico, but they were not going to live somewhere that their kids were going to get that horrible shit. And their kids are bilingual and frequently speak Spanish in the home, and Jeb really gets and loves the culture. I knew NONE of this from Republican circles, FYI - I chalked him up as Just Another Bush. A mefite who will remain anonymous unless he chooses sent me a really great article while I was going crazy during the RNC and it gave me a lot of hope for humanity.

***

Sure! It turned out to be a tumblr post actually, but with other newspaper articles cited!

Huh! It's too bad so little of this shows up in his persona and his policy.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 2:01 PM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]


I reserve the right to point out that any conservatives pushing the "Jeb(!) the honorary Latino" line who has or will get shitty about politicians of any race "pandering" to PoC are hypocritical, racist dickbags.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:15 PM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]


Former Romney strategist Stuart Stevens meets with independent candidate

This meeting with choke-architect Stuart Stevens could be just the thing the McMuffin campaign needs!
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:33 PM on August 29, 2016


I don't have a strong feeling about the nicknames one way or another (I defended the Drumpf thing and then regretted it) but to those who do, does "Donnie" or "Turnip" or "Cheeto Jesus" bother you, but not Egg McMuffin? No one has piped up to defend his honor...
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:13 PM on August 29, 2016


I think the "Egg McMuffin" thing is basically "who is this guy that has come out of nowhere I cannot even remember his name". In contrast, calling Trump "Cheeto Jesus" is about mocking the person directly. Trump is a horrible person, maybe he should be mocked, but I can see a difference between the spirit in which these names are used.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:43 PM on August 29, 2016


ChurchHatesTucker: Mika: 'I Can't Pretend To Cover' Donald Trump 'Fairly' | Morning Joe | MSNBC

Secret Life of Gravy: Trump doubles down to @andersoncooper, calls Clinton a "bigot" and "maybe she's lazy":

Following a clip of the Anderson Cooper interview, Mika said: Donnie, you have no idea what your words mean. No idea. And no idea what you're doing to this country.

Then, some history on the candidates: in her 20s, Hillary went to the south for the Children's Defense Fund to fight school segregation. In his 20s, Donnie was fighting a lawsuit with his father for refusing to rent apartments to African Americans.

And Mika continues to sigh the sigh of someone who is completely out of evens.

DAMN.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:05 AM on August 31, 2016 [4 favorites]


dersins: Actions trump motivations, because

STOP SAYING THE NAME
posted by koeselitz at 10:36 PM on August 31, 2016


*,
*,
bo bump,
banana fana fo fump,
fee fie mo mump,
*!
posted by y2karl at 9:47 AM on September 1, 2016 [2 favorites]


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