Things That Happened On My First Day At Target
September 3, 2016 5:08 AM Subscribe
Random observations from working as a cashier.
For example:
"A little girl in basketball shorts kicks the candy rack multiple times. I expect her to turn around and show that she is throwing a fit. Instead, she seems calm and pleased. She is having the time of her life. I look forward to seeing where life takes her."
For example:
"A little girl in basketball shorts kicks the candy rack multiple times. I expect her to turn around and show that she is throwing a fit. Instead, she seems calm and pleased. She is having the time of her life. I look forward to seeing where life takes her."
Some cuteness, but yeah, what's wrong with 80 year old women buying lingerie and bras? Does the need for nice undergarments disappear at 79?
posted by pangolin party at 5:20 AM on September 3, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by pangolin party at 5:20 AM on September 3, 2016 [22 favorites]
Yeah, so much casual ageism and judgment on women's appearances which ruined the funny parts.
posted by masquesoporfavor at 5:29 AM on September 3, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by masquesoporfavor at 5:29 AM on September 3, 2016 [16 favorites]
ageism aside this was significantly more delightful than I expected. I so often turn to judgement and spite when it comes to people - probably why i didn't make it to 90 days at a register.
posted by rebent at 5:46 AM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by rebent at 5:46 AM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
But made it so clearly not Target astroturfing?
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 5:46 AM on September 3, 2016
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 5:46 AM on September 3, 2016
Or made it more? The duality is confounding. I like people.
ps - I thought it was wonderful.
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 5:47 AM on September 3, 2016
ps - I thought it was wonderful.
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 5:47 AM on September 3, 2016
Taken her picture, I suspect. Missing word.
posted by mhoye at 5:48 AM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by mhoye at 5:48 AM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
No. He is probably joking about stealing the kid. It's a joke teenagers can get away with because, really, the last thing in the world they want is a child so the idea is absurd enough that kidnapping to not be scary or in poor taste to joke about.
posted by midmarch snowman at 5:53 AM on September 3, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by midmarch snowman at 5:53 AM on September 3, 2016 [9 favorites]
Our local Target just got self checkout.
posted by fixedgear at 5:54 AM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by fixedgear at 5:54 AM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Thank god for self checkout. This is just further proof that cashiers silently judge everyone that buys underwear for daring to remind the world they have genitals and need underwear.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:02 AM on September 3, 2016 [23 favorites]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:02 AM on September 3, 2016 [23 favorites]
Day Six. And on the new spinoff blog, Day Seven!
posted by BiggerJ at 6:08 AM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by BiggerJ at 6:08 AM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Just popping in to say, self-checkout is my nemesis. I'm a 48 year old man with two engineering degrees and it's rare that I make it through self-checkout without waiting for help from an overseer. I'll be happy to use it, when it works reliably.
posted by newdaddy at 6:12 AM on September 3, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by newdaddy at 6:12 AM on September 3, 2016 [20 favorites]
-A guy from MetaFilter reading my Target cashier posts seemed dubious.
posted by davebush at 6:15 AM on September 3, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by davebush at 6:15 AM on September 3, 2016 [16 favorites]
The cashier is probably young. When I was young I definitely had a strong sense of otherness for nonpeers. The author seems like a genuine person that has a much more pleasant disposition than I would working that job (or any job frankly). Lets not drag down this author into our jaded pit of despair.
posted by forgettable at 6:17 AM on September 3, 2016 [56 favorites]
posted by forgettable at 6:17 AM on September 3, 2016 [56 favorites]
from BiggerJ's day 7 link
"A woman asked for a refund on a pair of sneakers for her infant. Mother returned, baby shoes, never worn."
Ageist and extremely short story plagiarist? Maybe I have to jump camps ;)
posted by forgettable at 6:32 AM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
"A woman asked for a refund on a pair of sneakers for her infant. Mother returned, baby shoes, never worn."
Ageist and extremely short story plagiarist? Maybe I have to jump camps ;)
posted by forgettable at 6:32 AM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
I agree with FORGETTABLE. This kids' Vonnegut-like fascination/affection/confusion about humanity is one of the best things I've read in awhile.
And I also agree with NEWDADDY- self checkout is right out of Dante for me- I cannot ever get it to work smoothly. Ever.
posted by asavage at 6:37 AM on September 3, 2016 [9 favorites]
And I also agree with NEWDADDY- self checkout is right out of Dante for me- I cannot ever get it to work smoothly. Ever.
posted by asavage at 6:37 AM on September 3, 2016 [9 favorites]
Lets not drag down this author into our jaded pit of despair.
It looks more like a blue background on my browser
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:47 AM on September 3, 2016 [16 favorites]
It looks more like a blue background on my browser
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:47 AM on September 3, 2016 [16 favorites]
"met a man who looked like Harry Potter if, instead of getting out of the cupboard at age eleven, he stayed in there for fifteen more years with nothing but Red Bull and My Chemical Romance albums."
I think I know this guy.
posted by Fig at 6:48 AM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
I think I know this guy.
posted by Fig at 6:48 AM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
And I also agree with NEWDADDY- self checkout is right out of Dante for me- I cannot ever get it to work smoothly. Ever.
Not to mention that self-checkout aisles steal jobs from actual humans, usually low-skilled workers without a lot of other options, because the companies that use them would rather provide a worse experience for shoppers (except the people who hate the idea of ever interacting with the poors I guess) to eliminate the hassle of employing real people who might get sick or "GASP" demand higher pay.
Self-checkout is bad in implementation, and bad for the world in general. Just stand in line and smile at the minimum wage worker trying to get by. Don't be anti-worker.
posted by neonrev at 6:54 AM on September 3, 2016 [44 favorites]
Not to mention that self-checkout aisles steal jobs from actual humans, usually low-skilled workers without a lot of other options, because the companies that use them would rather provide a worse experience for shoppers (except the people who hate the idea of ever interacting with the poors I guess) to eliminate the hassle of employing real people who might get sick or "GASP" demand higher pay.
Self-checkout is bad in implementation, and bad for the world in general. Just stand in line and smile at the minimum wage worker trying to get by. Don't be anti-worker.
posted by neonrev at 6:54 AM on September 3, 2016 [44 favorites]
The author or the Harry Potter feller?
posted by RustyBrooks at 6:54 AM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by RustyBrooks at 6:54 AM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Self-checkout should be limited to one or maybe two things, if they must exist. I'm with newdaddy; I've worked in IT for 20+ years, I do complex work, and I can't figure the damn things out.
My new goal in 35 years is to buy a lot of lingerie and smile at the teenaged cashiers.
posted by Molly Razor at 7:09 AM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
My new goal in 35 years is to buy a lot of lingerie and smile at the teenaged cashiers.
posted by Molly Razor at 7:09 AM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
On the one hand I thought this kid has a future in comedy and a great attitude towards people, on the other hand I made a note to myself to start buying my underwear online.
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:12 AM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:12 AM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
I probably shouldn't have read this the day after I bought 3 pair of underwear at Target. I hope the young, male cashier blogs about the middle aged lady who bought Wonder Woman underwear.
posted by kimberussell at 7:21 AM on September 3, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by kimberussell at 7:21 AM on September 3, 2016 [13 favorites]
-Sold lingerie to an eighty year old woman
I'm not reading the judgment there. That sentence could easily end with "apparently romance isn't dead at 40" or whatever. My first thought was "sweet!"
Edited to add: Ohhh, then I got to Day 5. Yeah, that's not nice.
posted by heyho at 7:27 AM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm not reading the judgment there. That sentence could easily end with "apparently romance isn't dead at 40" or whatever. My first thought was "sweet!"
Edited to add: Ohhh, then I got to Day 5. Yeah, that's not nice.
posted by heyho at 7:27 AM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
He has another comment about an older lady buying lingerie and "It is too early for these images."
posted by Molly Razor at 7:31 AM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Molly Razor at 7:31 AM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
No. He is probably joking about stealing the kid. It's a joke teenagers can get away with because, really, the last thing in the world they want is a child so the idea is absurd enough that kidnapping to not be scary or in poor taste to joke about.
In other news, the vast majority of people who inform a child that they want to just eat them up actually have no interest in devouring the child.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:42 AM on September 3, 2016 [46 favorites]
In other news, the vast majority of people who inform a child that they want to just eat them up actually have no interest in devouring the child.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:42 AM on September 3, 2016 [46 favorites]
extremely short story plagiarist
I think it's too spot-on to be anything but intentional. Also, six-word stories inspired by Hemingway are a thing.
posted by flyingsquirrel at 7:53 AM on September 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
I think it's too spot-on to be anything but intentional. Also, six-word stories inspired by Hemingway are a thing.
posted by flyingsquirrel at 7:53 AM on September 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
it's rare that I make it through self-checkout without waiting for help from an overseer. I'll be happy to use it, when it works reliably.
Pro tip for Target: the self-checkouts there have scanning guns attached. Those work WAY faster and more reliably than the scanner under the glass. Use that and you'll be done three times faster.
Self-checkout is bad in implementation, and bad for the world in general.
If my Target had an express line, it would be a different story. Nothing is more frustrating than being behind someone with a cart full of stuff for 10 minutes, I have three items, and the ohsohelpful Target manager approaches the person behind me and whispers "I can take you over on lane 8 if you come with me".
So I'm gonna say yay self-checkout when the other options are fucked.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:14 AM on September 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
Pro tip for Target: the self-checkouts there have scanning guns attached. Those work WAY faster and more reliably than the scanner under the glass. Use that and you'll be done three times faster.
Self-checkout is bad in implementation, and bad for the world in general.
If my Target had an express line, it would be a different story. Nothing is more frustrating than being behind someone with a cart full of stuff for 10 minutes, I have three items, and the ohsohelpful Target manager approaches the person behind me and whispers "I can take you over on lane 8 if you come with me".
So I'm gonna say yay self-checkout when the other options are fucked.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:14 AM on September 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
Yeah, I wanted to like this, but I found it pretty mean to women - especially older women. Oh no! Old women wear bras! I had to touch a bra an old woman was purchasing! And for reasons unexplained this made me imagine her - an old woman, in a bra, and for even more unexplained reasons, this grossed me out! Because old women and their breasts are gross! I'm crying on the inside!
Grow up, author, and stop judging women for having bodies that age. Aging is far preferable to the alternative.
posted by sockermom at 8:27 AM on September 3, 2016 [15 favorites]
Grow up, author, and stop judging women for having bodies that age. Aging is far preferable to the alternative.
posted by sockermom at 8:27 AM on September 3, 2016 [15 favorites]
"The cashier is probably young. When I was young I definitely had a strong sense of otherness for nonpeers. "
But why should the same generations that accepts and enforces (on the web) openness and respect for diversity in other areas not be called on ageism?
posted by NorthernLite at 8:28 AM on September 3, 2016 [9 favorites]
But why should the same generations that accepts and enforces (on the web) openness and respect for diversity in other areas not be called on ageism?
posted by NorthernLite at 8:28 AM on September 3, 2016 [9 favorites]
Self-checkout is bad in implementation, and bad for the world in general. Just stand in line and smile at the minimum wage worker trying to get by. Don't be anti-worker.
Sometimes I drive several miles out of the way to a grocery store that is often poorly stocked simply because they have self-checkout, and some days I would rather do almost anything than have to interact with someone.
The alternative is Publix, where you are accosted in almost every aisle by smiling employees asking you how you are and if you need any help. It is hell.
posted by dephlogisticated at 8:50 AM on September 3, 2016 [16 favorites]
Sometimes I drive several miles out of the way to a grocery store that is often poorly stocked simply because they have self-checkout, and some days I would rather do almost anything than have to interact with someone.
The alternative is Publix, where you are accosted in almost every aisle by smiling employees asking you how you are and if you need any help. It is hell.
posted by dephlogisticated at 8:50 AM on September 3, 2016 [16 favorites]
Labour is a cost. Most work is unpleasant. Are people here going to argue that we shouldn't have clean clothes if an army of folks aren't paid a pittance to beat them against rocks?
posted by hawthorne at 9:01 AM on September 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by hawthorne at 9:01 AM on September 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
the companies that use them would rather provide a worse experience for shoppers (except the people who hate the idea of ever interacting with the poors I guess
Yeah, because customers who prefer being able to choose a more efficient experience without are just afraid of "the poors"
Self-checkout isn't the right choice for me every time I go shopping, but when it is, I appreciate being able to get through the transaction faster with fewer distractions.
As far as Ageism/misogyny goes, I feel like every problematic reaction can be explained if this is a relatively young, gay, dude. You've got the youthful fear of aging (hence the judging people for having old bodies), combined with the juvenile inability to see someone with underwear without picturing them in it, plus the giggly "female bodies are literally alien" thing that a lot of immature gay guys have going on. It doesn't bother me, but then again unlike other forms of discrimination, I know that "ageist" youths will get their comeuppance eventually.
posted by sparklemotion at 9:02 AM on September 3, 2016 [11 favorites]
Yeah, because customers who prefer being able to choose a more efficient experience without are just afraid of "the poors"
Self-checkout isn't the right choice for me every time I go shopping, but when it is, I appreciate being able to get through the transaction faster with fewer distractions.
As far as Ageism/misogyny goes, I feel like every problematic reaction can be explained if this is a relatively young, gay, dude. You've got the youthful fear of aging (hence the judging people for having old bodies), combined with the juvenile inability to see someone with underwear without picturing them in it, plus the giggly "female bodies are literally alien" thing that a lot of immature gay guys have going on. It doesn't bother me, but then again unlike other forms of discrimination, I know that "ageist" youths will get their comeuppance eventually.
posted by sparklemotion at 9:02 AM on September 3, 2016 [11 favorites]
Labour is a cost. Most work is unpleasant.
It is unpleasant. That's why I don't want to donate my labor to the Whatever Corporation by checking myself out.
I appreciate being able to get through the transaction faster with fewer distractions
In my experience this is mostly a point-of-comparison error. If you compare self-checkout to the lines for normal checkout at the same time, the self checkout might indeed be faster, because they've reduced the number of lanes open to achieve that effect. If you compare self-checkout to how long the lines were for normal checkout before they put in the self-checkout, you're rarely going to be any faster. So they aren't really a plus.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:17 AM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
It is unpleasant. That's why I don't want to donate my labor to the Whatever Corporation by checking myself out.
I appreciate being able to get through the transaction faster with fewer distractions
In my experience this is mostly a point-of-comparison error. If you compare self-checkout to the lines for normal checkout at the same time, the self checkout might indeed be faster, because they've reduced the number of lanes open to achieve that effect. If you compare self-checkout to how long the lines were for normal checkout before they put in the self-checkout, you're rarely going to be any faster. So they aren't really a plus.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:17 AM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
just further proof that cashiers silently judge everyone
Sure, it's to be expected, why not? Just don't comment on my purchases (is this something cashiers are trained to do at Trader Joes? STFU!) However, it's okay to document what you hear on a blog somewhere, in fact it's pretty funny.
Note to you old-timers (who're actually younger than me) who can't figure out the self-checkout -- look, it's easy. Simply memorize the code for the cheapest produce they've got, and always key that one in.
posted by Rash at 9:27 AM on September 3, 2016 [12 favorites]
Sure, it's to be expected, why not? Just don't comment on my purchases (is this something cashiers are trained to do at Trader Joes? STFU!) However, it's okay to document what you hear on a blog somewhere, in fact it's pretty funny.
Note to you old-timers (who're actually younger than me) who can't figure out the self-checkout -- look, it's easy. Simply memorize the code for the cheapest produce they've got, and always key that one in.
posted by Rash at 9:27 AM on September 3, 2016 [12 favorites]
Metafilter: Lets not drag down this author into our jaded pit of despair.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 10:01 AM on September 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 10:01 AM on September 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
If he's 20 and he's talking about a woman who's 80, it probably means she's 45.
posted by sageleaf at 10:27 AM on September 3, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by sageleaf at 10:27 AM on September 3, 2016 [20 favorites]
When self checkout first appeared at my local Fred Meyer three hundred years ago, i too railed against the potential reduction of jobs.
But, i eventually started using them because I CAN PACK MY OWN BAGS.
(Also, unlike some of my generational peers above, i have never been flummoxed by them.)
posted by D.C. at 10:44 AM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
But, i eventually started using them because I CAN PACK MY OWN BAGS.
(Also, unlike some of my generational peers above, i have never been flummoxed by them.)
posted by D.C. at 10:44 AM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
ROU_Xenophobe: If you compare self-checkout to how long the lines were for normal checkout before they put in the self-checkout, you're rarely going to be any faster.
In my experience there have always been a ton of checkout lanes at Target, but they were never fully staffed. Like ten or so lanes, four or five with cashiers. So the addition of self-checkout lanes has only increased my options and decreased my checkout time, as I frequently only have enough for a hand cart.
But mostly I use self-checkout because I'm not good with people (nothing about "the poors"). I have so much social anxiety that I'll feel bad all day about any small talk joke I don't get or any awkward interaction.
posted by bluecore at 11:06 AM on September 3, 2016 [9 favorites]
In my experience there have always been a ton of checkout lanes at Target, but they were never fully staffed. Like ten or so lanes, four or five with cashiers. So the addition of self-checkout lanes has only increased my options and decreased my checkout time, as I frequently only have enough for a hand cart.
But mostly I use self-checkout because I'm not good with people (nothing about "the poors"). I have so much social anxiety that I'll feel bad all day about any small talk joke I don't get or any awkward interaction.
posted by bluecore at 11:06 AM on September 3, 2016 [9 favorites]
In my experience there have always been a ton of checkout lanes at Target
Target (and Wegmans if you have those) are indeed the exceptions to that rule.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:06 PM on September 3, 2016
Target (and Wegmans if you have those) are indeed the exceptions to that rule.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:06 PM on September 3, 2016
I always go for the human cashier because they'll just have to punch the magic "Yeah this old bald guy can buy alcohol" button for me at some point anyhow!
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 12:13 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 12:13 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
(oh yeah, in the UK I've never been carded, but most people don't carry ID in London anyway so it'd be hard to make that work)
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 12:14 PM on September 3, 2016
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 12:14 PM on September 3, 2016
I know this is real because of: "Someone had pooped in the baby supplies aisle." I think everybody who's worked in retail has at least one "somebody pooped in the store" story.
posted by queensissy at 12:29 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by queensissy at 12:29 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
I mean yeah lots of people can tell a story or two about people pooping in their store, but this is MetaFilter, I expect better:
"As a retail psychology researcher, I've covertly defecated in the aisles of over a hundred different retail establishments in order to better understand the reasons that people do this. Ask me anything."
posted by indubitable at 1:02 PM on September 3, 2016 [9 favorites]
"As a retail psychology researcher, I've covertly defecated in the aisles of over a hundred different retail establishments in order to better understand the reasons that people do this. Ask me anything."
posted by indubitable at 1:02 PM on September 3, 2016 [9 favorites]
lesson one: if someone see you, do not break eye contact
posted by indubitable at 1:04 PM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by indubitable at 1:04 PM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Self checkout as a class is abominable.
The self checkout at Target rocks. I have used it twenty times and not had a single problem. At my local Target they have 4 stalls and one supervisor and I cannot recall the supervisor doing anything except standing there and smiling at the happy customers going on their way.
(I always go first thing in the morning and that might help.)
posted by bukvich at 1:09 PM on September 3, 2016
The self checkout at Target rocks. I have used it twenty times and not had a single problem. At my local Target they have 4 stalls and one supervisor and I cannot recall the supervisor doing anything except standing there and smiling at the happy customers going on their way.
(I always go first thing in the morning and that might help.)
posted by bukvich at 1:09 PM on September 3, 2016
There's a self checkout at my local grocery (Knob Hill) that absolutely cannot tolerate my canvas tote being used to pack my groceries after I pass them over the scanner. It's because the packing area is obiously a scale that's used to prevent theft, i.e. weight of item scanned and bagged must equal recorded weight of item in POS system. No accommodation for setting a tare weight for the bag.
Designed by an idiot, I refuse to use it.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 2:20 PM on September 3, 2016
Designed by an idiot, I refuse to use it.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 2:20 PM on September 3, 2016
In my experience this is mostly a point-of-comparison error. If you compare self-checkout to the lines for normal checkout at the same time, the self checkout might indeed be faster, because they've reduced the number of lanes open to achieve that effect. If you compare self-checkout to how long the lines were for normal checkout before they put in the self-checkout, you're rarely going to be any faster. So they aren't really a plus.
My grocery store recently changed ownership and got a redesign as a result.
Part of the redesign was (for some reason) removing the self-checkout lanes.
So, now, rather than having 5 total registers (4 self + 1 manned), we now have 1 total register (1 manned). With 4 people waiting in line.
This is not a net improvement in customer service and throughput.
If you think that a modern corporation will suddenly add 4 extra people to run additional registers.... well, I have a bridge to sell you.
posted by madajb at 2:33 PM on September 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
My grocery store recently changed ownership and got a redesign as a result.
Part of the redesign was (for some reason) removing the self-checkout lanes.
So, now, rather than having 5 total registers (4 self + 1 manned), we now have 1 total register (1 manned). With 4 people waiting in line.
This is not a net improvement in customer service and throughput.
If you think that a modern corporation will suddenly add 4 extra people to run additional registers.... well, I have a bridge to sell you.
posted by madajb at 2:33 PM on September 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
I was in a local big-box today, and it really seemed that they were purposely understaffing the checkout lanes (on the first day of a big long weekend holiday) in order to drive people to the self checkout lanes. People were backed-up into the aisle at every manned checkout, and no one was opening a new checkout. It was miserable.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:34 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 2:34 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Self-checkout is bad in implementation, and bad for the world in general. Just stand in line and smile at the minimum wage worker trying to get by. Don't be anti-worker.
I used to think this way.
I noticed that when self-checkout was implemented, the prices for groceries did not go down, despite the company outsourcing the labor onto me.
On the other hand, the cashiers in my area are uniformly awful.
They scan at a glacial pace, don't seem to understand the difference between banter and chatting and are easily distracted by seemingly anything happening near by.
Once we mandated reusable bags, forget it, standing in a checkout line became a Monty Python skit about The World's Worst Cashier.
The self-checkout never asks me to sign up for a card to save 10%, never asks me to fill out a survey to win $5000, never puts my eggs on top of my bread.
posted by madajb at 2:45 PM on September 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
I used to think this way.
I noticed that when self-checkout was implemented, the prices for groceries did not go down, despite the company outsourcing the labor onto me.
On the other hand, the cashiers in my area are uniformly awful.
They scan at a glacial pace, don't seem to understand the difference between banter and chatting and are easily distracted by seemingly anything happening near by.
Once we mandated reusable bags, forget it, standing in a checkout line became a Monty Python skit about The World's Worst Cashier.
The self-checkout never asks me to sign up for a card to save 10%, never asks me to fill out a survey to win $5000, never puts my eggs on top of my bread.
posted by madajb at 2:45 PM on September 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
If you think that a modern corporation will suddenly add 4 extra people to run additional registers.... well, I have a bridge to sell you
I don't think that. I think that before they put in the self-checkout, they probably had two or three lanes open.
My point being that you shouldn't think "Oh, self-checkout, so much faster," you should think "Oh, self checkout, just as slow as it used to be but cheaper for the store." And think poorly of the store for making that choice.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:27 PM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
I don't think that. I think that before they put in the self-checkout, they probably had two or three lanes open.
My point being that you shouldn't think "Oh, self-checkout, so much faster," you should think "Oh, self checkout, just as slow as it used to be but cheaper for the store." And think poorly of the store for making that choice.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:27 PM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
There's a self checkout at my local grocery (Knob Hill) that absolutely cannot tolerate my canvas tote being used to pack my groceries after I pass them over the scanner. It's because the packing area is obiously a scale that's used to prevent theft, i.e. weight of item scanned and bagged must equal recorded weight of item in POS system. No accommodation for setting a tare weight for the bag.
The trick is usually to put the empty canvas bag on the scale side at the very beginning before you start the check-out process. If they've coded it correctly, when you start the checkout, it will self tare. Some are coded better than others. At Ralphs Supermarket, for example, instead of tapping to start the checkout process, you can just start by scanning your Ralphs Club card and it will skip that tap.
posted by bluecore at 3:40 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
The trick is usually to put the empty canvas bag on the scale side at the very beginning before you start the check-out process. If they've coded it correctly, when you start the checkout, it will self tare. Some are coded better than others. At Ralphs Supermarket, for example, instead of tapping to start the checkout process, you can just start by scanning your Ralphs Club card and it will skip that tap.
posted by bluecore at 3:40 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm surprised this kid can remember that many daily encounters. When I worked as a Target cashier I couldn't have told you the hair color of the person who came before you. The only incident I recall is when a sheepish young guy in his 20s came through my line with jovial two women who were quite obviously his mother and grandmother. They were vaguely Eastern European and speaking a language I didn't understand, so I was unfortunately not able to pick up on the reason for their purchase, which was something like 30+ boxes of trojan magnum condoms.
Anyways, I give this kid another week until he breaks. Cashiering is a shit job that is equal parts mind-numbing, soul-crushing, and dehumanizing. I purposely use self check-out whenever possible so as not to contribute to such an abominable shellacking of the human spirit.
posted by Panjandrum at 3:58 PM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
Anyways, I give this kid another week until he breaks. Cashiering is a shit job that is equal parts mind-numbing, soul-crushing, and dehumanizing. I purposely use self check-out whenever possible so as not to contribute to such an abominable shellacking of the human spirit.
posted by Panjandrum at 3:58 PM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
Whenever I think about an worker at a place being slow or bad at their job, I can imagine two main reasons why that might be (These are not necessarily mutually exclusive):
1. That worker (or category of worker) is simply lazy, not smart enough to handle the job, or doesn't care enough to do well. If this is the reason there is a problem then it's just inherent to the class of worker.
2. That worker (or category of worker) is some combination of underpaid, under-trained, under-motivated and/or overworked. If this is the reason there is a problem, then the solution is to push for better conditions for the workers, both for their benefit and for the benefit of the customer.
I prefer to live in a world wherein I think of people as being like the vast, overwhelming majority of people I've worked with in low-wage jobs, who are not simply shit heads who don't care, but rather are like the second group who are either not paid well enough for them to bust their asses so they can go home exhausted with a less-than-living wage, so they do not try very hard, or who were never properly trained by a company that sees spending money on employees to be a waste, so they don't know how to do a good job. I prefer sympathy for my fellow worker to disliking them because they do not work hard enough in my eyes to barely not starve. There are certainly lazy shit-heads, I've worked with some, but most people I've ever known like to be good at their jobs, just not enough to wear themselves away for it. I don't blame them.
The main thing I remember from when my old grocery store got 4 self-checkout lanes is a couple people I knew losing their jobs as cashiers, which despite being horrible, still paid their rent and fed them. I purposefully will stand in a long line for a person rather than use an artificial worker. I like it when people have jobs.
posted by neonrev at 4:33 PM on September 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
1. That worker (or category of worker) is simply lazy, not smart enough to handle the job, or doesn't care enough to do well. If this is the reason there is a problem then it's just inherent to the class of worker.
2. That worker (or category of worker) is some combination of underpaid, under-trained, under-motivated and/or overworked. If this is the reason there is a problem, then the solution is to push for better conditions for the workers, both for their benefit and for the benefit of the customer.
I prefer to live in a world wherein I think of people as being like the vast, overwhelming majority of people I've worked with in low-wage jobs, who are not simply shit heads who don't care, but rather are like the second group who are either not paid well enough for them to bust their asses so they can go home exhausted with a less-than-living wage, so they do not try very hard, or who were never properly trained by a company that sees spending money on employees to be a waste, so they don't know how to do a good job. I prefer sympathy for my fellow worker to disliking them because they do not work hard enough in my eyes to barely not starve. There are certainly lazy shit-heads, I've worked with some, but most people I've ever known like to be good at their jobs, just not enough to wear themselves away for it. I don't blame them.
The main thing I remember from when my old grocery store got 4 self-checkout lanes is a couple people I knew losing their jobs as cashiers, which despite being horrible, still paid their rent and fed them. I purposefully will stand in a long line for a person rather than use an artificial worker. I like it when people have jobs.
posted by neonrev at 4:33 PM on September 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
Not to mention that self-checkout aisles steal jobs from actual humans...
Is anyone else troubled by the popularity of Luddism on Metafilter?
posted by shponglespore at 4:41 PM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
Is anyone else troubled by the popularity of Luddism on Metafilter?
posted by shponglespore at 4:41 PM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
MetaFilter: right out of Dante
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:55 PM on September 3, 2016
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:55 PM on September 3, 2016
No, I'm troubled by people still relying on a strawman like "Luddism" as a dog whistle, when technological development in just 200 years has led us to things like global warming and nuclear weapons and still we are all jaunty about tech bros and corporations gonna save the world or whatever.
posted by sylvanshine at 5:00 PM on September 3, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by sylvanshine at 5:00 PM on September 3, 2016 [14 favorites]
When your grandparents heard about a polio vaccine, did they bemoan the collapse of the iron lung industry?
posted by Etrigan at 5:10 PM on September 3, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 5:10 PM on September 3, 2016 [10 favorites]
I'm not at all surprised that MetaFilter is full of Luddites: The Luddites' goal was to gain a better bargaining position with their employers. They were not afraid of technology per se, but were "labour strategists".
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:11 PM on September 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:11 PM on September 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
I use the self-checkout all the time. I used it today.
Some of the reasons have been mentioned already - fewer social interactions (which adds stress to an already stressful situation for me), packing my own groceries (because yeah, I have three flights of stairs from my car to my apartment, and if bags are packed badly, it can mess up my already tenuous physical well-being), the unspoken judgement of the cashier - but there's also the fact that I always feel boxed-in when I go through the regular lane. People crowd from both sides, there's not much room...
...it just sucks. So avoiding that actually does improve my life dramatically. I don't always use the self-checkout. If there's no line there, or I have 20 of something that must be scanned, then it doesn't make sense to use self-checkout.
But frankly, the only labour a cashier is saving me is moving objects over a scanner. I put items on the scanner, I pack them (I always insist, see above, which is more awkward social interaction), and I cart them away. I totally understand wanting to support human beings and their jobs, but sometimes practicalities weigh out over principles.
posted by guster4lovers at 5:40 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Some of the reasons have been mentioned already - fewer social interactions (which adds stress to an already stressful situation for me), packing my own groceries (because yeah, I have three flights of stairs from my car to my apartment, and if bags are packed badly, it can mess up my already tenuous physical well-being), the unspoken judgement of the cashier - but there's also the fact that I always feel boxed-in when I go through the regular lane. People crowd from both sides, there's not much room...
...it just sucks. So avoiding that actually does improve my life dramatically. I don't always use the self-checkout. If there's no line there, or I have 20 of something that must be scanned, then it doesn't make sense to use self-checkout.
But frankly, the only labour a cashier is saving me is moving objects over a scanner. I put items on the scanner, I pack them (I always insist, see above, which is more awkward social interaction), and I cart them away. I totally understand wanting to support human beings and their jobs, but sometimes practicalities weigh out over principles.
posted by guster4lovers at 5:40 PM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Labour is a cost. Most work is unpleasant
Also, when we're done fixing the user experience for self-checkout systems, we could give some thought to job design for people. I'm pretty sure MOAR MONEY doesn't have to be the overarching principle in the labour equation.
posted by sneebler at 5:42 PM on September 3, 2016
Also, when we're done fixing the user experience for self-checkout systems, we could give some thought to job design for people. I'm pretty sure MOAR MONEY doesn't have to be the overarching principle in the labour equation.
posted by sneebler at 5:42 PM on September 3, 2016
I purposefully will stand in a long line for a person rather than use an artificial worker. I like it when people have jobs.
Do you pay your washing woman a living wage? Your cook? Your butler? How about your valet?
No?
Well, I'm sure you tip the milkman well at least. And you of course are generous to the secretary who types your comments into this community weblog.
There are certain types of labor that we generally don't need anymore (and few of us can afford). Obviously, grocery store cashiers aren't 100% of the way there yet, but I welcome the move in that direction.
posted by sparklemotion at 5:51 PM on September 3, 2016 [12 favorites]
Do you pay your washing woman a living wage? Your cook? Your butler? How about your valet?
No?
Well, I'm sure you tip the milkman well at least. And you of course are generous to the secretary who types your comments into this community weblog.
There are certain types of labor that we generally don't need anymore (and few of us can afford). Obviously, grocery store cashiers aren't 100% of the way there yet, but I welcome the move in that direction.
posted by sparklemotion at 5:51 PM on September 3, 2016 [12 favorites]
When your grandparents heard about a polio vaccine, did they bemoan the collapse of the iron lung industry?
No, because vaccines actually save lives.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:25 PM on September 3, 2016
No, because vaccines actually save lives.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:25 PM on September 3, 2016
Also this derail is getting thick with an army of strawmen.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:28 PM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:28 PM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
No, because vaccines actually save lives.
I'm glad you've never had to weigh whether you would be physically capable of talking to another person to get groceries because your social anxiety was firing on all cylinders. Those of us who have had to make that choice do occasionally think of self-checkout as an actual lifesaver.
posted by Etrigan at 7:01 PM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm glad you've never had to weigh whether you would be physically capable of talking to another person to get groceries because your social anxiety was firing on all cylinders. Those of us who have had to make that choice do occasionally think of self-checkout as an actual lifesaver.
posted by Etrigan at 7:01 PM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Is anyone else troubled by the popularity of Luddism on Metafilter?
It's not really luddism, though. It would be luddism if people were objecting to fully-automated checkout -- you just trundle your cart up to the station and a robot arm grabs the various items and scans things itself and, at most, asks you "What is this produce item?" if it can't recognize it. That would be technology putting people out of jobs and it would also be totally awesome . Well, right up until the stations get sentient and pull a gun from someone's holster and get some revengeance.
What you have with self-checkout stations isn't that. Self-checkout stations merely replace the store's paid labor with your free labor. The job still exists, you're just doing it yourself. For free.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:17 PM on September 3, 2016 [12 favorites]
It's not really luddism, though. It would be luddism if people were objecting to fully-automated checkout -- you just trundle your cart up to the station and a robot arm grabs the various items and scans things itself and, at most, asks you "What is this produce item?" if it can't recognize it. That would be technology putting people out of jobs and it would also be totally awesome . Well, right up until the stations get sentient and pull a gun from someone's holster and get some revengeance.
What you have with self-checkout stations isn't that. Self-checkout stations merely replace the store's paid labor with your free labor. The job still exists, you're just doing it yourself. For free.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:17 PM on September 3, 2016 [12 favorites]
My new goal in 35 years is to buy a lot of lingerie and smile at the teenaged cashiers.
Coincidentally, that's pretty much the reason I'm not allowed to return. But then I'm a middle-aged guy, so your mileage may vary.
posted by dances with hamsters at 7:17 PM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Coincidentally, that's pretty much the reason I'm not allowed to return. But then I'm a middle-aged guy, so your mileage may vary.
posted by dances with hamsters at 7:17 PM on September 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
This thread, in summary: younger people are less mature. The advancement of technology and simplification of human-machine interfaces will lead to a reduction of low skill jobs. People are allowed to have varied and conflicting opinions on both these facts.
To derail from this derail, I liked the linked posts. I kinda liked food service in my early 20s because it exposed to a wealth of humanity way beyond the variety I encountered in my high school and college life. I kinda liked dating for similar reasons... Even if I didn't hit it off with someone... People are all so different it's interesting. This kid's experience reminds me of my first experiences with encountering people outside the bubble of family and adolescence.
posted by midmarch snowman at 7:52 PM on September 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
To derail from this derail, I liked the linked posts. I kinda liked food service in my early 20s because it exposed to a wealth of humanity way beyond the variety I encountered in my high school and college life. I kinda liked dating for similar reasons... Even if I didn't hit it off with someone... People are all so different it's interesting. This kid's experience reminds me of my first experiences with encountering people outside the bubble of family and adolescence.
posted by midmarch snowman at 7:52 PM on September 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
Is anyone else troubled by the popularity of Luddism on Metafilter?
Decouple income and sustenance from the ever decreasing need for human labour and I'll be cheering on the robots.
Until then I am not so keen on the capitalists cutting the rest of us loose to starve on the streets.
posted by Meatbomb at 8:27 PM on September 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
Decouple income and sustenance from the ever decreasing need for human labour and I'll be cheering on the robots.
Until then I am not so keen on the capitalists cutting the rest of us loose to starve on the streets.
posted by Meatbomb at 8:27 PM on September 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
I guess the good news if I end up losing my job and have to find something crappy to help cover expenses is that I can finally start my acerbic-yet-wise observational blog.
posted by Scattercat at 8:47 PM on September 3, 2016
posted by Scattercat at 8:47 PM on September 3, 2016
My point being that you shouldn't think "Oh, self-checkout, so much faster," you should think "Oh, self checkout, just as slow as it used to be but cheaper for the store."
But it's not though.
When the Safeway put in self-checkout, they put in 9 registers (8 basket-style self-checkout, 1 self-checkout with a belt) in the space that two full-service checkouts took up.
Fred Meyer has 12.
In no scenario is that slower than having 2 or 3 workers manning registers.
And think poorly of the store for making that choice.
Well, as I said, when the Albertson's remodelled, they took out all of the self-checkouts, so maybe it's the start of a new trend the other way.
posted by madajb at 9:37 PM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
But it's not though.
When the Safeway put in self-checkout, they put in 9 registers (8 basket-style self-checkout, 1 self-checkout with a belt) in the space that two full-service checkouts took up.
Fred Meyer has 12.
In no scenario is that slower than having 2 or 3 workers manning registers.
And think poorly of the store for making that choice.
Well, as I said, when the Albertson's remodelled, they took out all of the self-checkouts, so maybe it's the start of a new trend the other way.
posted by madajb at 9:37 PM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
What you have with self-checkout stations isn't that. Self-checkout stations merely replace the store's paid labor with your free labor. The job still exists, you're just doing it yourself. For free.
Counterpoint: self-checkout saves me the labor of speaking to another human being.
posted by atoxyl at 9:41 PM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
Counterpoint: self-checkout saves me the labor of speaking to another human being.
posted by atoxyl at 9:41 PM on September 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm against the self-checkout for both the loss of jobs and the slow creep of work that used to be paid for by the company being foisted on to its supposed customers. Not only do they not have to pay a worker, they essentially get free labor from the customer. I'm not interested in supporting either trend.
posted by Ghidorah at 11:00 PM on September 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Ghidorah at 11:00 PM on September 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
> in the space that two full-service checkouts took up.
So, it's real estate that we're conserving, now?
I suppose I should seek out a Target when next I'm in NYC, because I've never been in one yet where I got the sense they were desparate for raw square footage.
posted by one weird trick at 2:14 AM on September 4, 2016
So, it's real estate that we're conserving, now?
I suppose I should seek out a Target when next I'm in NYC, because I've never been in one yet where I got the sense they were desparate for raw square footage.
posted by one weird trick at 2:14 AM on September 4, 2016
Do you pay your washing woman a living wage? Your cook? Your butler? How about your valet?
No?
Well, I'm sure you tip the milkman well at least. And you of course are generous to the secretary who types your comments into this community weblog.
There are certain types of labor that we generally don't need anymore (and few of us can afford).
I personally work for a less than living wage, and have for my entire life so far and see very little reason to believe that situation will improve. I've been a washing man, actually, for a lot of my working life, and I've never been tipped for that. What exactly are you getting at? I'm currently living under the poverty line. I care a lot about making sure that others like me have a chance to at least have any job.
I'm amused that worker solidarity is so quickly described as luddism (but the kind that means I hate technology, not the actual meaning). The bosses have taught ya'll well. Like somehow caring about other low-wage workers whose jobs are more easily eliminated in the pure interest of profit and not having to actually supply workers with health care and sick leave and adequate pay and all the other frills that white collar workers are more likely to have access to suddenly makes me opposed to vaccines and other pure social positives I guess. Go on ahead and keep thinking that that self checkout lane exists for any other reason than to begin eliminating the need for messy human workers if you need to.
On the anxiety tip, that's a valid point. I've driven to a big store, sat in the parking lot and driven away because I didn't think I could deal with talking and interacting with people before right then. I don't consider self-checkout a solution to that, because I also don't like having to stand with people behind me in line watching me try and puzzle out exactly how this particular one works while their eyes judge me for taking up their precious time. I probably have it better on the anxiety tip than most though I guess. Still don't consider my comfort worth eliminating low-wage jobs. Maybe some do.
posted by neonrev at 5:17 AM on September 4, 2016 [9 favorites]
No?
Well, I'm sure you tip the milkman well at least. And you of course are generous to the secretary who types your comments into this community weblog.
There are certain types of labor that we generally don't need anymore (and few of us can afford).
I personally work for a less than living wage, and have for my entire life so far and see very little reason to believe that situation will improve. I've been a washing man, actually, for a lot of my working life, and I've never been tipped for that. What exactly are you getting at? I'm currently living under the poverty line. I care a lot about making sure that others like me have a chance to at least have any job.
I'm amused that worker solidarity is so quickly described as luddism (but the kind that means I hate technology, not the actual meaning). The bosses have taught ya'll well. Like somehow caring about other low-wage workers whose jobs are more easily eliminated in the pure interest of profit and not having to actually supply workers with health care and sick leave and adequate pay and all the other frills that white collar workers are more likely to have access to suddenly makes me opposed to vaccines and other pure social positives I guess. Go on ahead and keep thinking that that self checkout lane exists for any other reason than to begin eliminating the need for messy human workers if you need to.
On the anxiety tip, that's a valid point. I've driven to a big store, sat in the parking lot and driven away because I didn't think I could deal with talking and interacting with people before right then. I don't consider self-checkout a solution to that, because I also don't like having to stand with people behind me in line watching me try and puzzle out exactly how this particular one works while their eyes judge me for taking up their precious time. I probably have it better on the anxiety tip than most though I guess. Still don't consider my comfort worth eliminating low-wage jobs. Maybe some do.
posted by neonrev at 5:17 AM on September 4, 2016 [9 favorites]
Self checkout means I don't have to deal with cashiers :
Leering at me
Smirking when they see I'm buying tampons
Trying to hit on me....including one asking if she can follow me home
Stroking my fingers/brushing the side of my hand when they give me my change.
posted by brujita at 6:02 AM on September 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
Leering at me
Smirking when they see I'm buying tampons
Trying to hit on me....including one asking if she can follow me home
Stroking my fingers/brushing the side of my hand when they give me my change.
posted by brujita at 6:02 AM on September 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
I especially like some stores' positioning that one employee to watch over the collection of self-checkouts, like standing watch over the galley slaves of consumerism. Select, scan, deposit...keep up the pace!
posted by one weird trick at 6:29 AM on September 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by one weird trick at 6:29 AM on September 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Definitely prefer Publix to self checkout, as their cashiers have been there long enough and are well paid enough to have become good at the job. Part of the reason is the machines are terribly designed. A halfway decent cashier can easily scan and pack items twice as fast as the self checkout machine allows, thanks to its constant prattling on about "please place item in the bagging area". You'd think it would allow you to batch items a few at a time, as long as they eventually made it (and no unexpected items did), but no.
The machines are terribly user hostile, and it annoys me to no end that the local Target has taken to having zero human cashiers in the couple of hours before closing time.
BTW, I also suffer from nearly crippling social anxiety. But back when it was at its worst, I either dealt with cashiers or didn't get to eat. After a while, the ersatz acclimation therapy worked it's magic and I can deal with the limited (and relatively structured) interaction that is going through the checkout line. I still have trouble in my other contexts, but that one isn't a problem any more. I realize that I'm lucky, though, in that I'm utterly calm in crisis mode, so if I force myself to do things it ends up working out as long as it goes past panic into the complete shutdown of all emotion that takes over at some point.
Srsly. I (the car I was driving) got hit by a bus the other day and it didn't phase me until much later. That was an unwelcome bit of suddenly required social interaction, indeed. First crash in 20 years of driving, so it was precisely the sort of thing that triggers my anxiety since I lack any framework for handling the situation. At least with things like dealing with checkout people I can observe others to try to grok what is socially expected.
posted by wierdo at 7:27 AM on September 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
The machines are terribly user hostile, and it annoys me to no end that the local Target has taken to having zero human cashiers in the couple of hours before closing time.
BTW, I also suffer from nearly crippling social anxiety. But back when it was at its worst, I either dealt with cashiers or didn't get to eat. After a while, the ersatz acclimation therapy worked it's magic and I can deal with the limited (and relatively structured) interaction that is going through the checkout line. I still have trouble in my other contexts, but that one isn't a problem any more. I realize that I'm lucky, though, in that I'm utterly calm in crisis mode, so if I force myself to do things it ends up working out as long as it goes past panic into the complete shutdown of all emotion that takes over at some point.
Srsly. I (the car I was driving) got hit by a bus the other day and it didn't phase me until much later. That was an unwelcome bit of suddenly required social interaction, indeed. First crash in 20 years of driving, so it was precisely the sort of thing that triggers my anxiety since I lack any framework for handling the situation. At least with things like dealing with checkout people I can observe others to try to grok what is socially expected.
posted by wierdo at 7:27 AM on September 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm amused that worker solidarity is so quickly described as luddism (but the kind that means I hate technology, not the actual meaning).
I am not sure what you think the "actual meaning" of Luddism is, but if you don't think that the Luddites were anti-technology for fear of what that technology would mean for the workers, I don't think it means what you think it means.
The problem of people being stuck in low-wage, low-skilled jobs is a complicated one, but it's going to be solved by having a more robust social safety net, or more vocational training, or the creation of more useful jobs. Not by having people do unnecessary work. (yes, grocery store cashiers are still necessary, but just like bank tellers, society may not need as many of them in the future , because the most basic functions of their job can be automated well enough to meet most people's needs, most of the time).
And, you know, maybe "the bosses" have taught me well. If you weren't so consumed with looking down on people who dare to have different shopping preferences than you, you might learn a little too.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:13 AM on September 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
I am not sure what you think the "actual meaning" of Luddism is, but if you don't think that the Luddites were anti-technology for fear of what that technology would mean for the workers, I don't think it means what you think it means.
The problem of people being stuck in low-wage, low-skilled jobs is a complicated one, but it's going to be solved by having a more robust social safety net, or more vocational training, or the creation of more useful jobs. Not by having people do unnecessary work. (yes, grocery store cashiers are still necessary, but just like bank tellers, society may not need as many of them in the future , because the most basic functions of their job can be automated well enough to meet most people's needs, most of the time).
And, you know, maybe "the bosses" have taught me well. If you weren't so consumed with looking down on people who dare to have different shopping preferences than you, you might learn a little too.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:13 AM on September 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
Re: self-checkouts: This is where I get off with socialism. Work and jobs are the be-all and end-all. If automation threatens jobs, then automation is bad.
But come on. These are shitty jobs at best. If you ask me, no one should have to do them. Let's have a UBI or similar and automate the shit out of everything, then tax the labour cost savings and put it back into ordinary peoples' pockets. Make it so that companies have to pay a decent wage to encourage people to do the work that needs to be done by people, not make people fight each other over jobs they don't really want to begin with.
Sometimes the left is like a cargo cult that worships jobs and employment instead of freedom and equality. End rant.
posted by Acey at 10:50 AM on September 4, 2016 [8 favorites]
But come on. These are shitty jobs at best. If you ask me, no one should have to do them. Let's have a UBI or similar and automate the shit out of everything, then tax the labour cost savings and put it back into ordinary peoples' pockets. Make it so that companies have to pay a decent wage to encourage people to do the work that needs to be done by people, not make people fight each other over jobs they don't really want to begin with.
Sometimes the left is like a cargo cult that worships jobs and employment instead of freedom and equality. End rant.
posted by Acey at 10:50 AM on September 4, 2016 [8 favorites]
"Self-checkout stations merely replace the store's paid labor with your free labor. The job still exists, you're just doing it yourself. For free."
I agree with this definition. And still I use self-checkout quite often, because I value the labor so little that I'm willing to do it for free to get it done faster. That's pretty selfish, but I'm unable to muster the regret I should feel.
I do most of my shopping at Aldi, which only has a single (well paid) cashier, and there I bag my own groceries (paying for bags if I've forgotten mine at home) and return my own cart in exchange for the quarter that I deposited for the use of that cart. So I'm doing quite a bit of work there for free, and again, I'm glad to do it, because it doesn't seem any slower than the alternatives, and in the case of Aldi, the prices are low enough that I'm money-ahead.
Meanwhile, at Trader Joe's, where I go to fill in the items Aldi doesn't sell, I will choose to stand in a longer line rather than go through the line with the cashier who always wants to talk to me about things I don't care about. If TJ had self-checkout, I'd donate my free labor in a heartbeat.
All of that said, I found the linked Target cashier posts mostly amusing. I agree with sparklemotion, who said: "unlike other forms of discrimination, I know that "ageist" youths will get their comeuppance eventually."
posted by pwinn at 2:40 PM on September 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
I agree with this definition. And still I use self-checkout quite often, because I value the labor so little that I'm willing to do it for free to get it done faster. That's pretty selfish, but I'm unable to muster the regret I should feel.
I do most of my shopping at Aldi, which only has a single (well paid) cashier, and there I bag my own groceries (paying for bags if I've forgotten mine at home) and return my own cart in exchange for the quarter that I deposited for the use of that cart. So I'm doing quite a bit of work there for free, and again, I'm glad to do it, because it doesn't seem any slower than the alternatives, and in the case of Aldi, the prices are low enough that I'm money-ahead.
Meanwhile, at Trader Joe's, where I go to fill in the items Aldi doesn't sell, I will choose to stand in a longer line rather than go through the line with the cashier who always wants to talk to me about things I don't care about. If TJ had self-checkout, I'd donate my free labor in a heartbeat.
All of that said, I found the linked Target cashier posts mostly amusing. I agree with sparklemotion, who said: "unlike other forms of discrimination, I know that "ageist" youths will get their comeuppance eventually."
posted by pwinn at 2:40 PM on September 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Weird, I use self-checkout whenever it's available, which is almost always, and I've never had problems beyond needing someone to verify that I'm old enough to buy alcohol. Strange, that IT experts can't manage to make such a simple device work. After all, if some non-IT-expert numbskull like me can use them for years and years and not experience the soul-crushing problems described by others... well. Not weird that IT experts feel the need to disparage a useful technology that they haven't mastered yet. And not weird for Metafilter that someone decides to cast people who use self-checkouts as people who "hate the poors", not realizing that sometimes social anxiety makes using a self-checkout necessary, but still disappointing. I remain hopeful that someday more people might have the shocking realization that other people have different experiences, that your personal inability to use or appreciate a technology does not make it bad or useless, and that people who use those technologies are not stupid, evil, hateful, or whatever else. JFC.
posted by palomar at 8:09 PM on September 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by palomar at 8:09 PM on September 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
I always use the self-serve aisle because it has the cutest cashier in the whole darn store!
posted by um at 10:41 PM on September 4, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by um at 10:41 PM on September 4, 2016 [6 favorites]
Funny that this thread turned into a debate over self-checkout. I am eternally grateful for the option to not wait in line behind the little old lady who is buying 3 cases of Cran-Apple juice with coupons and a personal check. If I need something like stamps or a particular form of change or alcohol, I'm happy to do the real live cashier thing, but generally I think eliminating useless jobs does not exclude the possibility of keeping everyone employed doing useful things and the question of how to provide everyone with reasonable living wages is far more nuanced than the damn self-check out lines.
But anyway, getting back to the original post, I think the observations are much funnier if I imagine this kid lighting up and getting high before every shift.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 11:52 PM on September 4, 2016 [5 favorites]
But anyway, getting back to the original post, I think the observations are much funnier if I imagine this kid lighting up and getting high before every shift.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 11:52 PM on September 4, 2016 [5 favorites]
Aside from the very legit issue of people with social anxiety, I feel like a lot of people have never had the experience of having an experienced cashier and bagger at the grocery store. They are, quite literally, 2 to 3 times faster than most people at getting the job done.
I'm sure it helps when there are places where they make $15 an hour or more, so people actually stay in the job long enough to get good at it. (Before being bought by SuperValu, the unionized Albertsons cashiers were almost uniformly excellent at the job, and at Publix they still are, for the most part)
I can actually scan pretty damn quickly, but as I said earlier, the user hostile design of most self checkout kiosks makes it impossible to be quick at all because of the requirement to scan a single item then bag that item before allowing you to move on to the next item.
Point being, until the self checkout allows me to do the work efficiently, I will always prefer to let the human who is experienced at the work do it for me since it's faster anyway. (Aside from those times where I have literally one or two items and all the staffed lanes are packed 3-4 deep with people who have a cart full of stuff)
posted by wierdo at 8:26 AM on September 5, 2016
I'm sure it helps when there are places where they make $15 an hour or more, so people actually stay in the job long enough to get good at it. (Before being bought by SuperValu, the unionized Albertsons cashiers were almost uniformly excellent at the job, and at Publix they still are, for the most part)
I can actually scan pretty damn quickly, but as I said earlier, the user hostile design of most self checkout kiosks makes it impossible to be quick at all because of the requirement to scan a single item then bag that item before allowing you to move on to the next item.
Point being, until the self checkout allows me to do the work efficiently, I will always prefer to let the human who is experienced at the work do it for me since it's faster anyway. (Aside from those times where I have literally one or two items and all the staffed lanes are packed 3-4 deep with people who have a cart full of stuff)
posted by wierdo at 8:26 AM on September 5, 2016
Good news, everyone! You can have self-checkout kiosks AND miserable workers! Let me tell you a story...
In the grip of a ruinous bout of stomach flu I was in the grocery store 20 minutes before close with a jumbo pack of toilet paper and another jumbo pack of Gatorade. The kiosks were the only checkout option available, but they have to be overseen by a harried employee. As I'm checking out, a very drunk, very angry man demands that she open a checkout lane just for him because "I don't do computers." She nervously explains that they don't have the staff for that right now and it's just the kiosks. He then proceeds to call her a stupid b*tch and tells her that he's going to get her fired. It's one of those situations where I wish I had the physique of a weightlifter so I could loudly tell him to go fuck himself and leave the poor woman alone. In conclusion, everything is terrible.
posted by zeusianfog at 4:10 PM on September 5, 2016
In the grip of a ruinous bout of stomach flu I was in the grocery store 20 minutes before close with a jumbo pack of toilet paper and another jumbo pack of Gatorade. The kiosks were the only checkout option available, but they have to be overseen by a harried employee. As I'm checking out, a very drunk, very angry man demands that she open a checkout lane just for him because "I don't do computers." She nervously explains that they don't have the staff for that right now and it's just the kiosks. He then proceeds to call her a stupid b*tch and tells her that he's going to get her fired. It's one of those situations where I wish I had the physique of a weightlifter so I could loudly tell him to go fuck himself and leave the poor woman alone. In conclusion, everything is terrible.
posted by zeusianfog at 4:10 PM on September 5, 2016
Sometimes the left is like a cargo cult that worships jobs and employment instead of freedom and equality.
The left? If anything, the right is even more cargo-culty about jobs.
posted by shponglespore at 9:14 AM on September 6, 2016
The left? If anything, the right is even more cargo-culty about jobs.
posted by shponglespore at 9:14 AM on September 6, 2016
If you compare self-checkout to how long the lines were for normal checkout before they put in the self-checkout, you're rarely going to be any faster.
The comparison that matters to me is how long it takes to get out of the store if I have a choice between self-checkout and normal checkout and nobody in front of me. It's not remotely close. I can check myself out much faster and get the added benefit of having my groceries organized the way I wanted them.
posted by straight at 12:18 PM on September 6, 2016
The comparison that matters to me is how long it takes to get out of the store if I have a choice between self-checkout and normal checkout and nobody in front of me. It's not remotely close. I can check myself out much faster and get the added benefit of having my groceries organized the way I wanted them.
posted by straight at 12:18 PM on September 6, 2016
Sometimes the left is like a cargo cult that worships jobs and employment instead of freedom and equality.
i think you're confusing "jobs" with "worker solidarity"
posted by burgerrr at 2:56 PM on September 6, 2016
i think you're confusing "jobs" with "worker solidarity"
posted by burgerrr at 2:56 PM on September 6, 2016
« Older all my choices are lifestyle choices | Ghosts of Biloela Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
"Saw a girl skipping down the aisle in what can only be described as a pink princess fairy wedding dress. She was filled with happiness and if I hadn’t been on the clock I would have taken her. At the very least, I want that outfit for my own."
posted by juniper at 5:17 AM on September 3, 2016 [13 favorites]