She achieved "a new era of harmony between women and men"
September 5, 2016 5:46 PM Subscribe
Phyllis Schlafly, leader of the opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment to the United States Constitution and founder of the conservative political group Eagle Forum, has died at 92 from cancer.
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posted by lineofsight at 5:51 PM on September 5, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by lineofsight at 5:51 PM on September 5, 2016 [8 favorites]
Mod note: One deleted. As usual for obits of despised figures, gonna ask that folks hearken to the better angels of their nature and omit the worst of the "I piss on her grave" comments.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 5:52 PM on September 5, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 5:52 PM on September 5, 2016 [16 favorites]
I'm sure the results of her existence on this planet will be judged wisely by the arc of history.
posted by hippybear at 5:55 PM on September 5, 2016 [29 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 5:55 PM on September 5, 2016 [29 favorites]
Her vision of the world was not mine, and I think history will view her as having been on the wrong side of justice. I wish for her in death as I did in life: that she be treated in a manner consistent with my values, and not hers.
posted by maxsparber at 5:55 PM on September 5, 2016 [98 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 5:55 PM on September 5, 2016 [98 favorites]
I found these details about her stance on the ERA from the NYT obit interesting:
Mrs. Schlafly hardly noticed the Equal Rights Amendment when it was first debated in Congress. Her initial inclination was to support it, as “something between innocuous and mildly helpful,” she told Ms. Felsenthal. But when, in December 1971, a friend asked her to debate a feminist on the amendment, she read up on the issue and decided that the E.R.A. was dangerous and needed to be stopped. It had already passed the House.posted by John Cohen at 5:59 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
The next October, Mrs. Schlafly founded and appointed herself chairwoman of Stop ERA, the volunteer organization that became the Eagle Forum. The “stop” was an acronym for “stop taking our privileges,” effectively summarizing the position of the amendment’s opponents. They worried that earlier laws written to protect women — guaranteeing alimony and exempting women from combat, for instance — would be jettisoned.
Good. Bye.
posted by tzikeh at 6:00 PM on September 5, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by tzikeh at 6:00 PM on September 5, 2016 [18 favorites]
Wasn't she an inspiration for an unnamed figure in Handmaid's Tale? Mentioned in the "how did we get here" part.
posted by perianwyr at 6:00 PM on September 5, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by perianwyr at 6:00 PM on September 5, 2016 [11 favorites]
She was a foul, repugnant, intellectually bankrupt flea trying to stand athwart the tide of history. I'm sorry that this article wasn't run 40 years ago so we didn't need to hear from her in the interim.
We should only speak good of the dead. Phyllis Schlafly is dead. Good.
posted by Etrigan at 6:01 PM on September 5, 2016 [74 favorites]
We should only speak good of the dead. Phyllis Schlafly is dead. Good.
posted by Etrigan at 6:01 PM on September 5, 2016 [74 favorites]
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posted by SansPoint at 6:03 PM on September 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by SansPoint at 6:03 PM on September 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sometimes social change happens through revolution, sometimes through slow and steady erosion. And when all else fails, sometimes social change happens through attrition, as the last remnants of an old order die out and allow a new generation to take their place.
Thank you for contributing to social change in your own way, Ms. Schlafly.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 6:03 PM on September 5, 2016 [52 favorites]
Thank you for contributing to social change in your own way, Ms. Schlafly.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 6:03 PM on September 5, 2016 [52 favorites]
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posted by The Potate at 6:07 PM on September 5, 2016
posted by The Potate at 6:07 PM on September 5, 2016
I'll admit I said some unkind words when I heard the news. She was a strong and energetic activist who shaped the world according to her vision of the good. But her life's work unquestionably made the world a worse place. It's unseemly to celebrate death, but if she had ended her career decades earlier and not inspired others to carry on her work, our world would be a better place.
I still hold hope that we will someday enshrine equal rights for all explicitly in the U.S. constitution.
posted by biogeo at 6:08 PM on September 5, 2016 [4 favorites]
I still hold hope that we will someday enshrine equal rights for all explicitly in the U.S. constitution.
posted by biogeo at 6:08 PM on September 5, 2016 [4 favorites]
I weep for that poor cancer that had to go to its grave infected with Phyllis Schlafly.
posted by nevercalm at 6:08 PM on September 5, 2016 [64 favorites]
posted by nevercalm at 6:08 PM on September 5, 2016 [64 favorites]
From the WaPo obit:
I am grateful for Mrs. Schlafly if only because she helps give us a clear yardstick of how far we've come and how far we still have left to go.
posted by mochapickle at 6:09 PM on September 5, 2016 [41 favorites]
Mrs. Schlafly opposed the ERA because she believed it would open the door to gay marriage, abortion, the military draft for women, co-ed bathrooms and the end of labor laws that barred women from dangerous workplaces.And here we are: Legal gay marriage, rising acceptance of co-ed bathrooms, and a leading presidential candidate pushing had for equal pay and pro-woman childcare policy under her platform.
I am grateful for Mrs. Schlafly if only because she helps give us a clear yardstick of how far we've come and how far we still have left to go.
posted by mochapickle at 6:09 PM on September 5, 2016 [41 favorites]
In 1985, Phyllis Schlafly wrote that "the rights of homosexuals" had "now come into sharp collision with the rights of the rest of us to live in a safe society."
So basically good riddance.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:10 PM on September 5, 2016 [30 favorites]
So basically good riddance.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:10 PM on September 5, 2016 [30 favorites]
It's Margaret Thatcher all over again.
posted by hippybear at 6:12 PM on September 5, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 6:12 PM on September 5, 2016 [7 favorites]
This tweet said it better than I can.
If you describe Phyllis Schlafly’s beliefs as simply and clearly as possible people will accuse you of speaking ill of the dead.posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 6:13 PM on September 5, 2016 [95 favorites]
And here we are: Legal gay marriage, rising acceptance of co-ed bathrooms, and a leading presidential candidate pushing had for equal pay and pro-woman childcare policy under her platform.
Thanks for that reminder. Her work delayed, but could not prevent, the movement towards a more just society.
posted by biogeo at 6:14 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
Thanks for that reminder. Her work delayed, but could not prevent, the movement towards a more just society.
posted by biogeo at 6:14 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
At least she didn't boil people alive like Islam Karimov... ?
posted by XMLicious at 6:15 PM on September 5, 2016
posted by XMLicious at 6:15 PM on September 5, 2016
I still hold hope that we will someday enshrine equal rights for all explicitly in the U.S. constitution.
Also known as "how many fucking times do we have to rewrite the 14th amendment".
posted by Talez at 6:15 PM on September 5, 2016 [12 favorites]
Also known as "how many fucking times do we have to rewrite the 14th amendment".
posted by Talez at 6:15 PM on September 5, 2016 [12 favorites]
I'm actually sort of fascinated by Phyllis Schlafly's type (and she is a type, and they go back to at least the early 19th century) of anti-feminist woman: women who promote a political agenda about women's roles that is completely at odds with how they live their own lives. She was forceful, combative, independent, career-focused, and she argued that women were so meek and domestic and dependent that they needed an entire policy agenda to protect them from their poor little natures. I don't know how she reconciled the cognitive dissonance. I'm actually not sure that she was self-aware or introspective enough even to realize that it was there.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:16 PM on September 5, 2016 [70 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:16 PM on September 5, 2016 [70 favorites]
She was an awful old creature who left us, atop everything else, Andrew Schafly. Nonetheless, somewhere in the world a child may be crying for its great-grandmother, and for it I am sorry.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:17 PM on September 5, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 6:17 PM on September 5, 2016 [12 favorites]
I'm just here to use the coke spoon and free buffet. My uncle was a radio/TV guy. Growing up in 1930s' Chicago, a POW. A good dude.
When Margs' vile pile emerged, he snapped the newspaper and said. Well, I won't repeat that for respect of the dead.
It's the no remorse, regret, even plain lack of human logic leding to some form of redemption; fueled by her cash infused sports sheild like some Gladiator trainer on cheap beer.
That's what I remember.
posted by clavdivs at 6:18 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
When Margs' vile pile emerged, he snapped the newspaper and said. Well, I won't repeat that for respect of the dead.
It's the no remorse, regret, even plain lack of human logic leding to some form of redemption; fueled by her cash infused sports sheild like some Gladiator trainer on cheap beer.
That's what I remember.
posted by clavdivs at 6:18 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
At least she didn't boil people alive
'Some people are trying to use panic about AIDS to force a teaching in the public school classroom of the acceptability of promiscuous or homosexual lifestyles with the use of condoms,' Schlafly said. 'That is unacceptable, and I believe, unconstitutional. Schools have no right to teach about condoms.' - 1987
She might as well have.
posted by hippybear at 6:19 PM on September 5, 2016 [56 favorites]
'Some people are trying to use panic about AIDS to force a teaching in the public school classroom of the acceptability of promiscuous or homosexual lifestyles with the use of condoms,' Schlafly said. 'That is unacceptable, and I believe, unconstitutional. Schools have no right to teach about condoms.' - 1987
She might as well have.
posted by hippybear at 6:19 PM on September 5, 2016 [56 favorites]
I despise what she stood for, but at least she did seem to believe what she espoused --- I don't THINK she was a hypocrite, just self-righteous and full of hate for anyone who didn't live by her rules.
My condolences to her family, I'm sure they'll miss her.
posted by easily confused at 6:20 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
My condolences to her family, I'm sure they'll miss her.
posted by easily confused at 6:20 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
ArbitraryAndCapricious, I'm interested by that too. My theory is that these are largely women who have seen what it is like to go without the support of men, and decide to throw their lot in with power and plenty. Queen Victoria, an extremely strong-willed and well-read woman, opposed women's suffrage.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:21 PM on September 5, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 6:21 PM on September 5, 2016 [8 favorites]
I don't THINK she was a hypocrite, just self-righteous and full of hate for anyone who didn't live by her rules.
Self-righteous and full of hate are usually enough for me to write someone off, anyways.
posted by Mooski at 6:23 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
Self-righteous and full of hate are usually enough for me to write someone off, anyways.
posted by Mooski at 6:23 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
This is all so weird, and very sad. I remember her from the second half of the 1970s (when as a protofeminist teen I thought she was faintly ridiculous. We totally knew who she was but to my friends and me she was sketch comedy material, nothing more). Stunning to learn that she had some real influence. I was prepared to feel worse for her and the inevitable reaction to her death, and am interested to learn more about her various biographical contradictions.
posted by sophieblue at 6:28 PM on September 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by sophieblue at 6:28 PM on September 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
If there was ever a time to break out the Anheuser-Busch products.
posted by ChuraChura at 6:30 PM on September 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ChuraChura at 6:30 PM on September 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
Seen on Twitter (and I assume this is in reference to Schlafly): "A good rule of thumb is to try to live your life in such a way that when you die, your funeral's not drowned out by the world cheering."
posted by orange swan at 6:34 PM on September 5, 2016 [55 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 6:34 PM on September 5, 2016 [55 favorites]
On the one hand, Bowie, Rickman, Prince, Wilder and Polito...
On the other hand, Scalia and Schlafly.
We're not quite square, 2016, but you're getting there.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 6:34 PM on September 5, 2016 [27 favorites]
On the other hand, Scalia and Schlafly.
We're not quite square, 2016, but you're getting there.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 6:34 PM on September 5, 2016 [27 favorites]
I think that two unicycles and some duct tape said pretty much the most elegant thing ever that one could say when a person who's disliked passes, and I'm pretty much going to adopt that and use it now, and henceforward.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:38 PM on September 5, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:38 PM on September 5, 2016 [4 favorites]
I thought this had happened years ago. Better late than never*.
* now I'm going to have nightmares about an immortal Phyllis Schlafly cavorting with an undead Jerry Falwell
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 6:40 PM on September 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
* now I'm going to have nightmares about an immortal Phyllis Schlafly cavorting with an undead Jerry Falwell
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 6:40 PM on September 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
I was always taught to never speak ill of the dead. I'm just going to be over here making popcorn instead.
posted by dw at 6:42 PM on September 5, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by dw at 6:42 PM on September 5, 2016 [4 favorites]
What a terrible human being.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:44 PM on September 5, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:44 PM on September 5, 2016 [7 favorites]
Here is my obituary for her: She was angry that the Supreme Court outlawed the death penalty for children.
Just that.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:49 PM on September 5, 2016 [64 favorites]
Just that.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:49 PM on September 5, 2016 [64 favorites]
I don't THINK she was a hypocrite, just self-righteous and full of hate for anyone who didn't live by her rules.
She didn't live by her own rules, though. She said that women shouldn't have higher education, while holding multiple degrees. She said that women were weak and needed to be led by a man while holding a position of power, she made millions while fighting to deny me and millions of other women the right to an education, a job, equal pay, equal protection under the law...
If she's not a hypocrite, then the word has no goddamn meaning any longer.
posted by palomar at 6:50 PM on September 5, 2016 [57 favorites]
She didn't live by her own rules, though. She said that women shouldn't have higher education, while holding multiple degrees. She said that women were weak and needed to be led by a man while holding a position of power, she made millions while fighting to deny me and millions of other women the right to an education, a job, equal pay, equal protection under the law...
If she's not a hypocrite, then the word has no goddamn meaning any longer.
posted by palomar at 6:50 PM on September 5, 2016 [57 favorites]
More proof that only the good die young.
posted by she's not there at 6:55 PM on September 5, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by she's not there at 6:55 PM on September 5, 2016 [6 favorites]
We're not quite square, 2016, but you're getting there.
You left out Lemmy, Bernie Worrell and Umberto Eco. It ain't close.
posted by lkc at 7:07 PM on September 5, 2016 [7 favorites]
You left out Lemmy, Bernie Worrell and Umberto Eco. It ain't close.
posted by lkc at 7:07 PM on September 5, 2016 [7 favorites]
I just hope she got a man's permission before she shuffled off her mortal coil.
posted by dances with hamsters at 7:18 PM on September 5, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by dances with hamsters at 7:18 PM on September 5, 2016 [9 favorites]
Here is my obituary for her: She was angry that the Supreme Court outlawed the death penalty for children.
Just that.
When you think there's nothing else more to say, something else always comes along. Damn.
posted by kafziel at 7:22 PM on September 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
Just that.
When you think there's nothing else more to say, something else always comes along. Damn.
posted by kafziel at 7:22 PM on September 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
Of course, lest we forget the state of modern media, this tweet reminds us
preview of bigotry euphemisms you'll see in Schlafly obituaries tmrw:
controversial
strident
strong views
outspoken
traditional
firebrand
posted by kafziel at 7:24 PM on September 5, 2016 [10 favorites]
preview of bigotry euphemisms you'll see in Schlafly obituaries tmrw:
controversial
strident
strong views
outspoken
traditional
firebrand
posted by kafziel at 7:24 PM on September 5, 2016 [10 favorites]
Even in this evrything retro era, you don't see that many young 'Phyllis's.'
Coincidence?
posted by jonmc at 7:25 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
Coincidence?
posted by jonmc at 7:25 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
If there was ever a time to break out the Anheuser-Busch products.
No, nononono! Her late husband's nephew started the brewery. Someone, you know, born with the name. Which is appropriate, since she just lost her attempt to prevent Schlafly Beer's trademark renewal...
posted by notsnot at 7:33 PM on September 5, 2016 [8 favorites]
No, nononono! Her late husband's nephew started the brewery. Someone, you know, born with the name. Which is appropriate, since she just lost her attempt to prevent Schlafly Beer's trademark renewal...
posted by notsnot at 7:33 PM on September 5, 2016 [8 favorites]
The best angel of my nature that's on duty right now suggests that you hoist a Schlafly Beer in her memory. Sadly, it seems that they don't make a bitter.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:02 PM on September 5, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:02 PM on September 5, 2016 [9 favorites]
She did some damn fine work in those orange juice commercials.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:03 PM on September 5, 2016
posted by octobersurprise at 8:03 PM on September 5, 2016
I will not mourn the woman who made her very nice living standing up giving speeches telling women to sit home and shut up.
posted by thebrokedown at 8:09 PM on September 5, 2016 [23 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 8:09 PM on September 5, 2016 [23 favorites]
Thankfully, in the realm of self-loathing spokespeople, we still have taco truck guy.
posted by fungible at 8:21 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by fungible at 8:21 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
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posted by lalochezia at 8:25 PM on September 5, 2016
posted by lalochezia at 8:25 PM on September 5, 2016
Given that she dedicated a large chunk of her life actively making the world a more hostile place for women, LGBT people, and anyone not, pretty much, exactly like her in thought and belief, I guess I can be grateful that she lived long enough to see almost every thing she fought for fail.
posted by Ghidorah at 8:40 PM on September 5, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by Ghidorah at 8:40 PM on September 5, 2016 [26 favorites]
I remember her quite clearly from the 1960's. I used to frequent my local John Birch Society bookstore in our home state (Missouri) to see what the nut-job right was up to. You would not believe the rhetoric those people used at the time. The label "conspiracy theory" was not around at the time, but that's what Schlafly and her people were all about. Fluoridation! Rock'n'Roll! Democrats! Liberals! The Anti-war movement! The Movement to Eradicate Christianity! Oh, and the Evils of the United Nations. That's what Phyllis S. dedicated her life to.
My condolences to her family.
posted by kozad at 8:44 PM on September 5, 2016 [5 favorites]
My condolences to her family.
posted by kozad at 8:44 PM on September 5, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'd say I'm impressed by her prescience in accurately predicting the future, but I suspect all the symptoms she ascribed to passing ERA were actually already growing social movements whose time had come, and whose eventual coming to pass had nothing to do with the ERA at all. (well, beyond the general principle that more equality tends to snowball into yet more equality, and vice versa)
posted by Cozybee at 8:45 PM on September 5, 2016
posted by Cozybee at 8:45 PM on September 5, 2016
I suspect all the symptoms she ascribed to passing ERA were actually already growing social movements whose time had come
I don't think there's a single LGBT activist who was working in the 70s and 80s who thought that marriage equality would happen in their lifetimes. Everyone was working toward it, but nobody thought it would happen for a LONG TIME.
posted by hippybear at 8:49 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
I don't think there's a single LGBT activist who was working in the 70s and 80s who thought that marriage equality would happen in their lifetimes. Everyone was working toward it, but nobody thought it would happen for a LONG TIME.
posted by hippybear at 8:49 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
I despise what she stood for, but at least she did seem to believe what she espoused
It's not every day I see unironic use of "at least it's an ethos"
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 8:56 PM on September 5, 2016 [17 favorites]
It's not every day I see unironic use of "at least it's an ethos"
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 8:56 PM on September 5, 2016 [17 favorites]
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posted by Token Meme at 9:15 PM on September 5, 2016
posted by Token Meme at 9:15 PM on September 5, 2016
posted by Going To Maine at 9:30 PM on September 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
I fear that my rather strong reaction to her passing is actually inherently sexist, compared to my relatively controlled reaction to that of similar men who have passed.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:33 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 9:33 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
Since the number of women who have had the power of voice that she had compared to the men who have dominated the discourse is much smaller, I don't think it's sexist at all to react more strongly to the death of an outsized female voice from her generation as opposed to all the muttering masses of men from the same generation.
posted by hippybear at 9:36 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 9:36 PM on September 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
She was also a vocal Trump supporter and had some momentum going again there. Her book, "The Conservative Case for Trump," is to be released tomorrow. She was actively poisonous to the end.
posted by raysmj at 9:43 PM on September 5, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by raysmj at 9:43 PM on September 5, 2016 [8 favorites]
Lived to see her dead, good.
posted by Freedomboy at 9:59 PM on September 5, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Freedomboy at 9:59 PM on September 5, 2016 [4 favorites]
Ghidorah: “Given that she dedicated a large chunk of her life actively making the world a more hostile place for women, LGBT people, and anyone not, pretty much, exactly like her in thought and belief, I guess I can be grateful that she lived long enough to see almost every thing she fought for fail.”
I really, really wish I could agree with this. Not to interrupt this rosy rehearsal of a beautiful, idealized vision of the past and present, but: that never happened. Phyllis Schlafly won. There is no Equal Rights Amendment. It never passed. It pretty obviously never will. Whatever minor advances we've been able to make since then have been in spite of that huge and devastating fact: Phyllis Schlafly won, and she is still winning. There was a glorious and fleeting moment in the 1960s and 1970s, right after Richard Nixon left office in ignominous defeat, when we had cause to hope that the Moralistic Right was breathing its last – that it was dying, and that we someday could speak of it the way we speak now of ancient cultures long dead and in the ground. But that never happened. The Moralistic Right lives on – changed, certainly, made even more twisted and insidious – but thriving in its way. And it will live on for all of our lifetimes – because of Phyllis Shlafly.
maxsparber: “Her vision of the world was not mine, and I think history will view her as having been on the wrong side of justice.”
Man, I sure hope so. I don't have a lot of reasons to think it will, though.
posted by koeselitz at 10:55 PM on September 5, 2016 [11 favorites]
I really, really wish I could agree with this. Not to interrupt this rosy rehearsal of a beautiful, idealized vision of the past and present, but: that never happened. Phyllis Schlafly won. There is no Equal Rights Amendment. It never passed. It pretty obviously never will. Whatever minor advances we've been able to make since then have been in spite of that huge and devastating fact: Phyllis Schlafly won, and she is still winning. There was a glorious and fleeting moment in the 1960s and 1970s, right after Richard Nixon left office in ignominous defeat, when we had cause to hope that the Moralistic Right was breathing its last – that it was dying, and that we someday could speak of it the way we speak now of ancient cultures long dead and in the ground. But that never happened. The Moralistic Right lives on – changed, certainly, made even more twisted and insidious – but thriving in its way. And it will live on for all of our lifetimes – because of Phyllis Shlafly.
maxsparber: “Her vision of the world was not mine, and I think history will view her as having been on the wrong side of justice.”
Man, I sure hope so. I don't have a lot of reasons to think it will, though.
posted by koeselitz at 10:55 PM on September 5, 2016 [11 favorites]
I worked hard, in my youth, to get ERA ratified in Illinois. I thought she smelled like a funeral forty years ago. No time to say more, busy dancin'.
posted by cookie-k at 11:03 PM on September 5, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by cookie-k at 11:03 PM on September 5, 2016 [6 favorites]
Phyllis Schlafly was a good hook for the Dead Kennedys, National Lampoon, and teenage me. Never knew much about her until much later, but she seemed to share the kind of anachronistic influence I'd hear about coming from Anita Bryant and Tipper Gore.
posted by rhizome at 11:23 PM on September 5, 2016
posted by rhizome at 11:23 PM on September 5, 2016
koeselitz, I can't entirely agree with you. She definitely made sure that her beliefs would be carried out, she fought to prevent others from enjoying the freedoms she had. Her generation very clearly gave rise to further generations after her, but, and I believe this very strongly, there has been a change. Her generation viewed gay people as an aberration, and yeah, sadly, a good chunk of kids born in the seventies (like me) did too, largely due to the influence she and people like her exerted. Over time, though, views have shifted, and in large part, it seems like younger generations have just grown to accept that gay people are, well, people, just a normal part of every day life. Without that, there would be no court decisions in favor of gay marriage, but there have been, and they do matter.
I do think, though, that you're right about the ERA. The last eight years of having Obama in office seems to have emboldened casual racists. I worry that (if the American people haven't gone utterly insane) the next presidency will embolden sexist speech and behavior in a similar way. Obama was almost completely unable to confront issues of race without having to heavily couch his terms and be as gentle as possible. Clinton will fare no better on any issue having to do with women's rights or equality, I think.
posted by Ghidorah at 11:38 PM on September 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
I do think, though, that you're right about the ERA. The last eight years of having Obama in office seems to have emboldened casual racists. I worry that (if the American people haven't gone utterly insane) the next presidency will embolden sexist speech and behavior in a similar way. Obama was almost completely unable to confront issues of race without having to heavily couch his terms and be as gentle as possible. Clinton will fare no better on any issue having to do with women's rights or equality, I think.
posted by Ghidorah at 11:38 PM on September 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
She did say there'd be a woman president over her dead body...
posted by ApathyGirl at 12:10 AM on September 6, 2016 [35 favorites]
posted by ApathyGirl at 12:10 AM on September 6, 2016 [35 favorites]
I'm sure she was a cute baby, once.
posted by benzenedream at 12:28 AM on September 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 12:28 AM on September 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
*
posted by SisterHavana at 12:35 AM on September 6, 2016
posted by SisterHavana at 12:35 AM on September 6, 2016
We're not quite square, 2016, but you're getting there.
You left out Lemmy, Bernie Worrell and Umberto Eco. It ain't close.
But also Nancy Reagan.
posted by the_blizz at 2:38 AM on September 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
You left out Lemmy, Bernie Worrell and Umberto Eco. It ain't close.
But also Nancy Reagan.
posted by the_blizz at 2:38 AM on September 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
I hope she's burning in hell.
posted by james33 at 2:51 AM on September 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by james33 at 2:51 AM on September 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
Anita Bryant is the one who shilled for FL OJ.
Schafly had a gay son who is part of the Eagle Forum; someone hinted in the comments of an Advocate piece that he stuck around to inherit her money...can MO mefites clarify?
posted by brujita at 3:30 AM on September 6, 2016
Schafly had a gay son who is part of the Eagle Forum; someone hinted in the comments of an Advocate piece that he stuck around to inherit her money...can MO mefites clarify?
posted by brujita at 3:30 AM on September 6, 2016
I wouldn't say this about just anybody, but:
Ding dong.
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:57 AM on September 6, 2016 [9 favorites]
Ding dong.
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:57 AM on September 6, 2016 [9 favorites]
I will speak ill of the dead when they deserve it. She was a horrible person who went far out of her way to cause harm to those who had never hurt her. I despised her in life, and see no reason to change my position now that she's dead.
They say that the death of any person diminishes us all, but I can't see that in her case. Rather it seems that one chain holding us back has finally snapped and the way forward has been eased.
She made the world a worse place in her life, and it will be better for her death.
posted by sotonohito at 4:02 AM on September 6, 2016 [11 favorites]
They say that the death of any person diminishes us all, but I can't see that in her case. Rather it seems that one chain holding us back has finally snapped and the way forward has been eased.
She made the world a worse place in her life, and it will be better for her death.
posted by sotonohito at 4:02 AM on September 6, 2016 [11 favorites]
Wow. Am I the only person here who finds this discussion sort of uncomfortable?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:09 AM on September 6, 2016 [6 favorites]
Since the number of women who have had the power of voice that she had compared to the men who have dominated the discourse is much smaller, I don't think it's sexist at all to react more strongly to the death of an outsized female voice from her generation as opposed to all the muttering masses of men from the same generation.I actually think it's sort of the definition of sexist. Because most women have been excluded from positions of power and prominence, we are going to be harder on the few women who do achieve those things? We are going to react with much more glee to their deaths than to the deaths of similarly-destructive men? What kind of bullshit is that?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:09 AM on September 6, 2016 [6 favorites]
she was a petty bourgeoisie moralist
posted by robbyrobs at 4:24 AM on September 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by robbyrobs at 4:24 AM on September 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
The best angel of my nature that's on duty right now suggests that you hoist a Schlafly Beer in her memory. Sadly, it seems that they don't make a bitter.
They make a terriffic extra special bitter. It's probably my favorite of their beers.
posted by EarBucket at 4:24 AM on September 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
They make a terriffic extra special bitter. It's probably my favorite of their beers.
posted by EarBucket at 4:24 AM on September 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
We're not quite square, 2016, but you're getting there.
You left out Lemmy, Bernie Worrell and Umberto Eco. It ain't close.
Lemmy died in late December.
posted by dances with hamsters at 4:38 AM on September 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
You left out Lemmy, Bernie Worrell and Umberto Eco. It ain't close.
Lemmy died in late December.
posted by dances with hamsters at 4:38 AM on September 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
I always figured she was too mean to die.
posted by theora55 at 4:44 AM on September 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 4:44 AM on September 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
Because most women have been excluded from positions of power and prominence, we are going to be harder on the few women who do achieve those things? We are going to react with much more glee to their deaths than to the deaths of similarly-destructive men?
I do not react with glee because she was a powerful and prominent woman. I react with glee because she was a notably abhorrent human being who spent her life actively damaging the lives of others. There are many men for whom I will react similarly and equivalently.
posted by delfin at 5:20 AM on September 6, 2016 [10 favorites]
I do not react with glee because she was a powerful and prominent woman. I react with glee because she was a notably abhorrent human being who spent her life actively damaging the lives of others. There are many men for whom I will react similarly and equivalently.
posted by delfin at 5:20 AM on September 6, 2016 [10 favorites]
I mean, that's great, delfin, and far be it from me to imply that you might have some unexamined biases that make you react with particular glee to the death of this person who hasn't been prominent for decades. But I was responding to someone who directly said that he doesn't think it's sexist to react more strongly to the death of a prominent woman than you would to the death of a prominent man. And I mean, I don't think that anyone's response to the death of any man is going to be "Ding Dong." That's a gendered insult, and it has no meaning except as a gendered insult. She's not being evaluated as a political figure. We're not talking about her toxic legacy, which was both terrible and interesting. (She pioneered a kind of grassroots conservative activism that has become really prominent in recent years. She realized that you can use anxiety about gender to rally conservative women, and not just conservative men.) We're calling her a witch, and you know what that rhymes with. It makes me sad, because I would really like to think better of Metafilter.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:32 AM on September 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:32 AM on September 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
Not for nothing, but I remember the fight for the ERA amendment. It was almost law you guys. Then shafley and her fellow minions of dominion managed to block progress for decades. She is the godmother of the teahadists. She is the mother of the movement that took the GOP down its regressive path. She was a terrible person who did terrible things, and I am glad I outlived her.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 5:41 AM on September 6, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 5:41 AM on September 6, 2016 [16 favorites]
I don't think that anyone's response to the death of any man is going to be "Ding Dong." That's a gendered insult, and it has no meaning except as a gendered insult.
Not to say that there can't be any sexism connected to reacting to Schlafly's death, but: Google search for "ding dong" "Osama bin Laden".
posted by XMLicious at 5:58 AM on September 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
Read somewhere else:
"Now we can have a woman president exactly how she would've preferred it - over her dead body."
posted by notsnot at 6:01 AM on September 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
"Now we can have a woman president exactly how she would've preferred it - over her dead body."
posted by notsnot at 6:01 AM on September 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
I mean, that's great, delfin, and far be it from me to imply that you might have some unexamined biases that make you react with particular glee to the death of this person who hasn't been prominent for decades.
I could not disagree more about that last point. Yes, Schlafly's most visible crusade was decades ago, but the movement that she built and its children and its children's children are on my radar every single day. The Schlaflys of the world and their progeny are out there working to restrict abortion rights, LGBT rights, immigration rights, voting rights, avoiding-being-at-the-mercy-of-a-nutball-with-a-gun rights, fundamental goddamned rights for human beings. They are making a difference in the world we live in and proudly throwing their support behind Trump this November.
If she had quietly retired in 1982 and taken up new hobbies, I'd still react negatively but not as vehemently as I do to someone who was quite happy to remain in the game in her golden years.
posted by delfin at 6:07 AM on September 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
I could not disagree more about that last point. Yes, Schlafly's most visible crusade was decades ago, but the movement that she built and its children and its children's children are on my radar every single day. The Schlaflys of the world and their progeny are out there working to restrict abortion rights, LGBT rights, immigration rights, voting rights, avoiding-being-at-the-mercy-of-a-nutball-with-a-gun rights, fundamental goddamned rights for human beings. They are making a difference in the world we live in and proudly throwing their support behind Trump this November.
If she had quietly retired in 1982 and taken up new hobbies, I'd still react negatively but not as vehemently as I do to someone who was quite happy to remain in the game in her golden years.
posted by delfin at 6:07 AM on September 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
this person who hasn't been prominent for decades
You mean the person whose new book promoting Trump was released today?
posted by palomar at 7:57 AM on September 6, 2016 [12 favorites]
You mean the person whose new book promoting Trump was released today?
posted by palomar at 7:57 AM on September 6, 2016 [12 favorites]
And I mean, I don't think that anyone's response to the death of any man is going to be "Ding Dong." That's a gendered insult, and it has no meaning except as a gendered insult.
Mea culpa. I do not apologize for or retract my belief that the world is a better place subsequent to Schlafly's death, or that it would have been even better had she died decades earlier, but I recognize and acknowledge the sexism inherent in my choice of exuberant phrasing. I am sorry, and will try to do better in the future. As penance, I have donated $10 to Hillary Clinton.
We need some all-purpose horrible-person-death-celebrating songs that aren't gendered. Somebody get on that.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:50 AM on September 6, 2016 [7 favorites]
Mea culpa. I do not apologize for or retract my belief that the world is a better place subsequent to Schlafly's death, or that it would have been even better had she died decades earlier, but I recognize and acknowledge the sexism inherent in my choice of exuberant phrasing. I am sorry, and will try to do better in the future. As penance, I have donated $10 to Hillary Clinton.
We need some all-purpose horrible-person-death-celebrating songs that aren't gendered. Somebody get on that.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:50 AM on September 6, 2016 [7 favorites]
We need some all-purpose horrible-person-death-celebrating songs that aren't gendered. Somebody get on that.
On that promised morning
We will wake and greet the dawn
Knowing that your wicked life is over
And that we will carry on
posted by medusa at 9:19 AM on September 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
On that promised morning
We will wake and greet the dawn
Knowing that your wicked life is over
And that we will carry on
posted by medusa at 9:19 AM on September 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
I thought of that, medusa, but it's no good for someone who's already dead.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:40 AM on September 6, 2016
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:40 AM on September 6, 2016
Since Schlafly was 92, I'd consider this as at least an honorable mention.
posted by delfin at 9:44 AM on September 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by delfin at 9:44 AM on September 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Thank you for contributing to social change in your own way, Ms. Schlafly."
Ms. Schlafly. Nice.
posted by jetsetsc at 10:09 AM on September 6, 2016 [6 favorites]
Ms. Schlafly. Nice.
posted by jetsetsc at 10:09 AM on September 6, 2016 [6 favorites]
My condolences to her family.
Starting at day one. As for her future, may she graciously submit, may she graciously submit, may she graciously submit, to all, the afterlife, throws her way.
posted by Oyéah at 11:36 AM on September 6, 2016
Starting at day one. As for her future, may she graciously submit, may she graciously submit, may she graciously submit, to all, the afterlife, throws her way.
posted by Oyéah at 11:36 AM on September 6, 2016
Since the number of women who have had the power of voice that she had compared to the men who have dominated the discourse is much smaller, I don't think it's sexist at all to react more strongly to the death of an outsized female voice from her generation as opposed to all the muttering masses of men from the same generation.
This makes no sense at all to me. How can you possibly justify this train of thought as not being sexist? It's the embodiment of sexism. It's the notion that women's behavior should be held to a harsher standard than the behavior of men.
posted by armadillo1224 at 12:30 PM on September 6, 2016
This makes no sense at all to me. How can you possibly justify this train of thought as not being sexist? It's the embodiment of sexism. It's the notion that women's behavior should be held to a harsher standard than the behavior of men.
posted by armadillo1224 at 12:30 PM on September 6, 2016
I do have more scorn for women who go out of their way to hinder other women, while being happy to reap the benefits that have accrued to them due to the activism of women in generations past. I don't think that makes me sexist, just intolerant of hypocrisy. I feel the same way about the pro Trump taco truck guy.
posted by peacheater at 1:16 PM on September 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 1:16 PM on September 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
This makes no sense at all to me. How can you possibly justify this train of thought as not being sexist? It's the embodiment of sexism. It's the notion that women's behavior should be held to a harsher standard than the behavior of men.
Were a man to say and do the things she did, that would be sexist and horrible. Her words and deeds were sexist, horrible, and massively hypocritical. Thus, because of her gender, they are judged worse. Is that sexist?
posted by kafziel at 1:18 PM on September 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
Were a man to say and do the things she did, that would be sexist and horrible. Her words and deeds were sexist, horrible, and massively hypocritical. Thus, because of her gender, they are judged worse. Is that sexist?
posted by kafziel at 1:18 PM on September 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
And I mean, I don't think that anyone's response to the death of any man is going to be "Ding Dong." That's a gendered insult, and it has no meaning except as a gendered insult
I think there should be room for divergent views in this thread, but I will say, I definitely sang Ding Dong the Witch is Dead when Reagan died, as did many of my friends. My hate of Schlafly doesn't even come close to my hate for Reagan, but I do feel it, and she is part of that whole, hateful 80s package. If anything, I think using the Ding Dong reference to her is a secondary reference to Reagan-era gay activists taunts of Reagan and his ilk. Google Ed Koch's and Larry Kramer. I know women can be sexist too (see Schlafly!) but for reference I am a woman and queer.
posted by latkes at 1:28 PM on September 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think there should be room for divergent views in this thread, but I will say, I definitely sang Ding Dong the Witch is Dead when Reagan died, as did many of my friends. My hate of Schlafly doesn't even come close to my hate for Reagan, but I do feel it, and she is part of that whole, hateful 80s package. If anything, I think using the Ding Dong reference to her is a secondary reference to Reagan-era gay activists taunts of Reagan and his ilk. Google Ed Koch's and Larry Kramer. I know women can be sexist too (see Schlafly!) but for reference I am a woman and queer.
posted by latkes at 1:28 PM on September 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
And while I get that referring to a man as a woman is used as an insult for problematic and homophobic reasons, I think to just dismiss the use of Ding Dong the Witch is Dead as sexist is really complicated by the layers of queer and gender-non-conforming symbolism and history on top of the Wizard of Oz, Judy Garland, HIV activism, the 80s, etc.
posted by latkes at 1:32 PM on September 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by latkes at 1:32 PM on September 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's the notion that women's behavior should be held to a harsher standard than the behavior of men.
The standards applied to her seem to try to match the volume, intensity, intentions and impact of her actions, someone who tried her very best to hurt others, to leave this world a worse place than when she entered it. Let every bit of scorn heaped on her be a warning to the rest of us of what the living remember and value when we are gone.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 3:40 PM on September 6, 2016
The standards applied to her seem to try to match the volume, intensity, intentions and impact of her actions, someone who tried her very best to hurt others, to leave this world a worse place than when she entered it. Let every bit of scorn heaped on her be a warning to the rest of us of what the living remember and value when we are gone.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 3:40 PM on September 6, 2016
And I mean, I don't think that anyone's response to the death of any man is going to be "Ding Dong."
Figuratively: remember when Ronnie died?
posted by bendy at 4:12 PM on September 6, 2016
Figuratively: remember when Ronnie died?
posted by bendy at 4:12 PM on September 6, 2016
Oh look, after the thousand-comment-strong election thread, I hit my daily favorite limit in this one. Favoriting those who explain why they view her death as a net plus, because her life was a net minus for so, so many, thanks to her choices and beliefs and actions.
FWIW, my first memory of "ding dong the witch is dead" being said widely after a famous person's death was for Jerry Falwell. Then for Reagan, and Thatcher, and now Schlafly. We don't seem to use the label "witch" for a single gender. We do seem to use it to label a certain type of self-righteous, devoid-of-empathy, power-hungry figure who fought against social progress and in order to further oppression. There is a problematic angle about why-is-it-the-feminine-word-that's-bad... But I remember that the sing refers specifically to the Wicked Witch, and there is also a good witch somewhere whose death nobody is cheering for.
At any rate, needs a bold, 40-pt font * .
posted by seyirci at 10:58 PM on September 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
FWIW, my first memory of "ding dong the witch is dead" being said widely after a famous person's death was for Jerry Falwell. Then for Reagan, and Thatcher, and now Schlafly. We don't seem to use the label "witch" for a single gender. We do seem to use it to label a certain type of self-righteous, devoid-of-empathy, power-hungry figure who fought against social progress and in order to further oppression. There is a problematic angle about why-is-it-the-feminine-word-that's-bad... But I remember that the sing refers specifically to the Wicked Witch, and there is also a good witch somewhere whose death nobody is cheering for.
At any rate, needs a bold, 40-pt font * .
posted by seyirci at 10:58 PM on September 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
Say what you will about Schlafly, but without her we wouldn't have the amazing satirical site, Conservapedia.
*holds finger to ear*
Wait, what? Are you sure about...? No way.
posted by brundlefly at 7:35 AM on September 7, 2016
*holds finger to ear*
Wait, what? Are you sure about...? No way.
posted by brundlefly at 7:35 AM on September 7, 2016
Watching the first season of Cagney and Lacey (God, I need some new shows to watch) and one of the episodes has the plot of some dude trying to kill a character obviously based on Phyllis Schafly. It is amazing how little has changed around discussions of women in the work force in the last 30 freaking years.
posted by thebrokedown at 7:28 PM on September 18, 2016
posted by thebrokedown at 7:28 PM on September 18, 2016
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posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 5:49 PM on September 5, 2016 [46 favorites]