“That looks like a bad dude, too,” the second officer said.
September 20, 2016 2:43 PM   Subscribe

The Shooting of an Unarmed Black Man in Oklahoma [The New York Times] The Police Department in Tulsa, Okla., released video [YouTube] [Graphic Content] on Monday of an encounter during which, the authorities said, a white police officer fatally shot an unarmed black man who could be seen raising his hands above his head. The department opened a criminal investigation into the shooting and said the Tulsa County district attorney, Steve Kunzweiler, would review its findings. The federal Justice Department opened a separate civil rights investigation.

- Family of Man Killed by Police Call for Protests [BBC]
"The big bad dude was my twin brother," his twin sister, Tiffany, told reporters. "That big bad dude was a father. That big bad dude was a son. That big bad dude was enrolled at Tulsa Community College, just wanting to make us proud. "That big bad dude loved God. That big bad dude was at church singing with all of his flaws, every week. That big bad dude, that's who he was.'' She went on to ask that people turn out to demonstrate. "Just know that our voices will be heard," she said. "The video will speak for itself. Let's protest. "Let's do what we have to do, but let's just make sure that we do it peacefully, to respect the culture of (the Crutcher family)."
- The Counted: People Killed by Police in the US [The Guardian] According to a database of officer-involved deaths maintained by The Guardian, Mr. Crutcher is one of 32 unarmed black men to be killed by police in the United States this year.
posted by Fizz (286 comments total) 40 users marked this as a favorite
 
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posted by Fizz at 2:43 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]


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posted by hydropsyche at 2:45 PM on September 20, 2016


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posted by b1tr0t at 2:49 PM on September 20, 2016


• • •
posted by tilde at 2:52 PM on September 20, 2016


i watched a dashcam of this. the dashcam car was proceeding full-tilt lights and siren, and passed another lights & siren unit who pulled in behind him and they both rolled up to a third unit already on scene. and there was a helicopter circling. for a broken down vehicle in the road? what am i missing here?
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 2:55 PM on September 20, 2016 [33 favorites]


I want to round up all the people who respond to any hint that there is a racial bias problem within police forces with bellows of "BLUE LIVES MATTER" and strap them down, eyelids clamped open Clockwork Orange-style, and make them watch this over and over and over until they get it. I want everyone who responds to these executions with "Well, if he'd just been respectful and done what they told him to do, he'd be fine" to have to watch this over and over. But I know it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference.
posted by sarcasticah at 2:56 PM on September 20, 2016 [86 favorites]


Remember that Tulsa was the scene of one of the largest race riots in history, back when "race riot" usually meant "gangs of white people attacking black people and black communities." Black neighborhoods in Tulsa were firebombed from the air.


With apologies to Art Spiegelman, America Bleeds History.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:59 PM on September 20, 2016 [55 favorites]


I want everyone who responds to these executions with "Well, if he'd just been respectful and done what they told him to do, he'd be fine" to have to watch this over and over. But I know it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference.

Indeed. It seems that no matter how much an individual complies with whatever is asked by an officer in these situations, it's never enough. They always moved too slow or too quickly or gestured or reached towards something they shouldn't have....it doesn't seem to matter.

There's so much fear/prejudice/hatred of people of colour, all that is seen is a threat to their lives and so its always shoot first, deal with the rest later. It's sickening to me. I no longer live in the United States, but even here in Canada, I worry about situations where I am pulled over. I hope the protests are peaceful and that Justice will be served where it should be.
posted by Fizz at 3:04 PM on September 20, 2016 [11 favorites]


I am always surprised by the dignified composure of the murdered victims' families.

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posted by Foci for Analysis at 3:07 PM on September 20, 2016 [11 favorites]


Talk about a national nightmare. It's like we are so drunk on fear and blood and spite that we're just vomiting it up all the time now.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:10 PM on September 20, 2016 [28 favorites]


America made great, again.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 3:11 PM on September 20, 2016 [6 favorites]




Those officers should face the death penalty for that.
That was BLATANT murder and no question of it.
posted by Burn_IT at 3:13 PM on September 20, 2016 [8 favorites]


His name was Terence Crutcher.
posted by indubitable at 3:14 PM on September 20, 2016 [150 favorites]


"Indeed. It seems that no matter how much an individual complies with whatever is asked by an officer in these situations, it's never enough. They always moved too slow or too quickly or gestured or reached towards something they shouldn't have....it doesn't seem to matter."

Is this because those excuses are made up after the event to explain away and justify the actions of the officers? Actual compliance might be a myth, a unicorn, an impossibility.
posted by Wetterschneider at 3:14 PM on September 20, 2016 [4 favorites]


The female cop sounds absolutely terrified when she yells out "shots fired!".
posted by futz at 3:15 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]


His name was Terence Crutcher.

Could a tag be added to this post?
posted by futz at 3:17 PM on September 20, 2016 [12 favorites]


I wonder what Colin Kaepernick's critics are saying now?

If your answer is "fucking nothing because they're cowardly racist shits" you might be smarter than a fifth grader who's not a fucking cowardly racist shit.
posted by qcubed at 3:19 PM on September 20, 2016 [95 favorites]


.

Terence was the father of four children, and was working towards a degree in music appreciation.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:28 PM on September 20, 2016 [41 favorites]


If Crutcher’s civil liberties do not remain intact, neither do yours or mine. (The Daily Beast; unfortunately, this article talks about Crutcher's criminal history from DECADES ago, but is otherwise pretty good.)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:30 PM on September 20, 2016 [7 favorites]


There are a lot of ways in which the War on Terror is intellectually and morally dishonest, but one of the absolute worst is the way that our terrorism statistics don't count black people murdered by the police.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 3:32 PM on September 20, 2016 [27 favorites]


The female cop sounds absolutely terrified when she yells out "shots fired!".

Given that she was the one who fired, she should sound terrified.
posted by Ruki at 3:35 PM on September 20, 2016 [30 favorites]


I wonder what Colin Kaepernick's critics are saying now?

To be fair, sanctamonious bigotry in a nation built on bigotry, means never having to say you're sorry.

I mean, literally never.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:41 PM on September 20, 2016 [12 favorites]


Please remember that Terence Crutcher wasn't unarmed-- he was Innocent.
posted by Sublimity at 4:03 PM on September 20, 2016 [102 favorites]


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posted by tobascodagama at 4:05 PM on September 20, 2016


For all those who opposed to the protest led by Colin Kaepernik, just remember that this is exactly the thing that he is protesting over.
posted by zardoz at 4:08 PM on September 20, 2016 [15 favorites]


Some racist on Twitter was posting purported statistics for police deaths/arrest for whites and blacks. I don't trust his numbers and have no desire to engage with rascists, but i was struck by how many of these deaths wouldn't be captured in the number, because there's no arrest happening. All that Terence Crutcher did was have his car breakdown. No police should have arrived to arrest him, much less execute him. It's the classic scenario where you expect the police to help, and yet he's still dead.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 4:13 PM on September 20, 2016 [24 favorites]


One comment noted a woman brandishing a bb gun at police but left alone. Years ago, my son had a bb gun in a town in Ct and the police confiscated it and we could not get it back. They said bb guns were legal but not shooting them in the town in which we then lived.
posted by Postroad at 4:17 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]


Talk about a national nightmare. It's like we are so drunk on fear and blood and spite that we're just vomiting it up all the time now.

Also, many of these nightmares are a result of the increased militarization of the police. There seems to be little to no separation between the police and the military. I often think about a quote from Battlestar Galactica:
“There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.”~ Commander William Adama
So Say We All!
posted by Fizz at 4:28 PM on September 20, 2016 [107 favorites]


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posted by moonlight on vermont at 4:41 PM on September 20, 2016


It occurred to me today that we often see a steady trickle of teachers engaged in criminal sexual misconduct with students. You can probably find some case of it every week across the country. I'm a teacher, so this is something I pay attention to. Yet we don't have a huge outcry over teaching as a profession on that point, in part because it's easy to show how tiny that trickle is in proportion to how many teachers we have.

I thought of that today because I was thinking about this, and how many cops probably feel like yeah, this or that video is bad, but how many of these awful shootings are there in proportion to how many cops, etc?

Only that contrast to teacher misconduct isn't accompanied by a common, longstanding, nationwide narrative of people of color being routinely abused by teachers. Nor do we have a common, longstanding, nationwide culture of teachers immediately stepping up to defend other teachers to the point of perjury and falsifying even when there's clear evidence of wrongdoing.

So at this point I'm having a hard time thinking of anything that parallels the abuses of law enforcement in this country right now.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:45 PM on September 20, 2016 [13 favorites]


Fizz, in a way it's even worse than that. I don't know about the people you know, I'm sure I'm skewing towards people who have similar beliefs, but all my veteran friends are both horrified by the shootings, and disgusted by the shoddy training of these officers, who are being equipped with and using over the top military weaponry and protection (often they're better armored than soldiers-- there was an entire "this is what I wore in Iraq, this is what these guys are wearing to tear gas grandmas in Ferguson" meme 2 years ago) on civilians. People who have no business with this kind of weaponry to start with are constantly gunning down civilians in non combat situations. This in particular has been making the rounds among my ex-military friends on facebook. Police are being armed like they're military but without any training, discipline, or rules of engagement. Basically a badly run, corrupt warlord style militia.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 4:48 PM on September 20, 2016 [67 favorites]





I thought of that today because I was thinking about this, and how many cops probably feel like yeah, this or that video is bad, but how many of these awful shootings are there in proportion to how many cops, etc?


One reason is that there is active resistance by various federal, state, and local authorities to track these kinds of statistics. Look at this Washington Post article:
Criminal justice experts note that, while the federal government and national research groups keep scads of data and statistics— on topics ranging from how many people were victims of unprovoked shark attacks (53 in 2013) to the number of hogs and pigs living on farms in the U.S. (upwards of 64,000,000 according to 2010 numbers) — there is no reliable national data on how many people are shot by police officers each year.

The government does, however, keep a database of how many officers are killed in the line of duty. In 2012, the most recent year for which FBI data is available, it was 48 – 44 of them killed with firearms. But how many people in the United States were shot, or killed, by law enforcement officers during that year? No one knows.

Officials with the Justice Department keep no comprehensive database or record of police shootings, instead allowing the nation’s more than 17,000 law enforcement agencies to self-report officer-involved shootings as part of the FBI’s annual data on “justifiable homicides” by law enforcement.
posted by Fizz at 4:50 PM on September 20, 2016 [18 favorites]


>we don't have a huge outcry over teaching as a profession on that point, in part because it's easy to show how tiny that trickle is in proportion to how many teachers we have.

Also because teachers who are found to have engaged in criminal sexual misconduct with students go to jail. Police officers who shoot unarmed people dead frequently don't even lose their jobs. Instead, the police investigate the police and determine that the police did nothing wrong.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:53 PM on September 20, 2016 [67 favorites]








A police officer in West Virginia was allegedly fired for NOT killing a suspect
“I told him, ‘Put down the gun,’ and he’s like, ‘Just shoot me.’” Mader told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette earlier this week. “And I told him, ‘I’m not going to shoot you brother.’ Then he starts flicking his wrist to get me to react to it.”

Noting that Williams hadn’t actually raised the firearm, Mader attempted to calm the situation. “I thought I was going to be able to talk to him and deescalate it,” he explained.

Unfortunately, those efforts were scuttled when additional police arrived at the scene. According to the Gazette, Williams began to approach two other officers while waving his pistol, prompting one to fire, killing Williams with a shot to the head.

Williams’ gun was later found to be unloaded.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 5:06 PM on September 20, 2016 [61 favorites]


A police officer in West Virginia was allegedly fired for NOT killing a suspect

We live inside of The Onion now. There are only tears. This truly is the worst timeline.
posted by Fizz at 5:13 PM on September 20, 2016 [32 favorites]


The 'but he was no angel'-ing has begun: Police say PCP found in Crutcher's car.

A discovery which may lend credence to the shooter-cop's observation a day earlier that Crutcher had been acting as if he was under the influence of the popular and common street drug PCP.
posted by Flashman at 5:14 PM on September 20, 2016 [3 favorites]


A friend of mine from college, a black man, posted about this on fb today. His usual fb posts are pictures of his kids, of events he goes to, nice sunsets. Like that. He wrote about this really eloquently, and sorrowfully, and his anger was there but so muted.

And some friend of his started a long double-down series about how we can't judge what happened from the footage and what did the guy expect when he didn't instantly obey and on and sickeningly on. My friend's responses were so beyond patient. His friend couldn't bring himself to acknowledge the systemic nature of shootings like these. Couldn't acknowledge that under this system, there is literally no level of compliance that a black man can demonstrate that will mean he won't be shot dead under color of law.

I'm so tired of seeing footage of black people murdered by cops.

Another friend, a black woman, posted a story about how she recently explained to her 10-year-old son that someone would probably call him the n-word sometime. He burst into tears and said it had happened already, last year, in a playground in the wealthy Connecticut suburb where they live. She's trying to decide how and when to talk to him about what his first encounter with police might look like.

I don't know how they bear it.
posted by rtha at 5:16 PM on September 20, 2016 [75 favorites]


Being on PCP is not a capital offense. Regardless of whether that is true or not, it changes nothing.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:21 PM on September 20, 2016 [37 favorites]


It was noted in the current election thread that Hillary Clinton tweeted about this.

I could probably write a book about this at this point. About black lives matter, about kneeling, about just how nuts it is that this stuff keeps happening. About how a guy set off bombs and got into a shootout with police and just got shot in the leg and even had that wound bandaged at the scene before he even got taken away.

But it's just breathtaking and exhausting. And I was silly enough to believe that once everybody turned and looked, once everybody was watching, black men would stop getting gunned down in the streets.

.
posted by cashman at 5:23 PM on September 20, 2016 [19 favorites]


>A discovery which may lend credence to the shooter-cop's observation a day earlier that Crutcher had been acting as if he was under the influence of the popular and common street drug PCP.

At least one of the many videos like this that I've seen in the last year or two showed one of the cops putting a gun near the body of the man who'd been shot. Why would ANYTHING lend credence to the official account at this point? Did the guy look like he was so wildly out of control on the scariest drug they can think of that they had no choice but to shoot him? Is the idea supposed to be that it's okay to shoot well-behaved people if you have a strong hunch that they have drugs in their car?
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:26 PM on September 20, 2016 [54 favorites]


"...popular and common street drug PCP."
Really? In 1986 maybe. People still dust?
posted by AJScease at 5:26 PM on September 20, 2016 [10 favorites]


Police say PCP found in Crutcher's car.

A discovery which may lend credence to the shooter-cop's observation a day earlier that Crutcher had been acting as if he was under the influence of the popular and common street drug PCP.


Another way to look at it is that when police fuck up and murder someone, then say that the person was acting like they were on [drug], it shouldn't be that surprising (or believed) when the police who murder people say they "discovered" [drug] inside that person's car.
posted by 23skidoo at 5:30 PM on September 20, 2016 [50 favorites]


This incompetent paranoid policing has to stop.
It looks like she shot him for not obeying her order to stop stepping towards her, which he couldn't hear because of, you know, the fucking HELICOPTER hovering over his head. In fact when a loud noise is introduced into the environment and you're trying to talk to someone, your natural instinct is to step closer so you can hear them better.
posted by w0mbat at 5:30 PM on September 20, 2016 [17 favorites]


rtha,

I'm not black but I am brown and I can recall a very specific conversation I had with my parents. My parents were telling me to be careful about my facial hair and how long I grew it out. This was during my first year at university, a little bit after 9/11 and my dad was quite serious in this conversation: “Look, no one is saying you cannot grow a beard or a mustache but you have to accept that people are going to stereotype and profile you. They're going to see your brown skin, your black beard and make assumptions about how and what you are as a person. It's easier to avoid all of that. They'll still make assumptions, only not as much. ”

It's sad that these types of things have to be discussed in such a way. I cannot imagine what it must be like to tell your child that you might be harmed or harassed or even killed because of ignorance, bigotry, and racism. We have a lot of work to do as a culture and society. It's very exhausting to be viewed in such a way by the people in your community.

*sighs*
posted by Fizz at 5:36 PM on September 20, 2016 [17 favorites]


> The female cop sounds absolutely terrified when she yells out "shots fired!".

Mistakes were made!
Mistakes were made!!
posted by hank at 5:46 PM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]


I honestly wonder if all the attention to this issue isn't making it worse. Not that we should stop but, how else can you explain it? Maybe before it was stupidity and now it's being slathered with a kind of defiant malice?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:46 PM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]


Another way to look at it is that when police fuck up and murder someone, then say that the person was acting like they were on [drug], it shouldn't be that surprising (or believed) when the police who murder people say they "discovered" [drug] inside that person's car.

This is why bodycams (that cannot be turned off by the officer) should be mandatory, and police testimony presumed inadmissible without the accompanying bodycam footage. Standard procedure in these cases is to plant drugs, or otherwise blame the victim's conduct, as if that makes it OK to kill them without trial.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:47 PM on September 20, 2016 [24 favorites]


PCP?

How do they even know? There hasn't been enough time for a Lab anaylysis. I spend my days around drug using folks and in harm reduction programs and have seen my fair share of drugs but never pcp. I don't even know what it looks like


This is just sickening. History is not present moment. History is not a reason to shoot. Drugs are never a reason to kill someone. Ever.

It is unjustifiable and wrong. Police cannot kill on the basis of fear. Feelings are not fact.
posted by AlexiaSky at 5:52 PM on September 20, 2016 [23 favorites]


I honestly wonder if all the attention to this issue isn't making it worse. Not that we should stop but, how else can you explain it?

I think you can explain it with "It's not getting worse, this is exactly how bad people have been saying it was."
posted by 23skidoo at 5:56 PM on September 20, 2016 [57 favorites]


Please, if they find PCP it's because it was planted there. I literally could not have any less trust in cops at this point.
posted by sockermom at 5:57 PM on September 20, 2016 [62 favorites]


zardoz: For all those who opposed to the protest led by Colin Kaepernik, just remember that this is exactly the thing he is protesting over.

People opposed to the national anthem boycott look solely at the action, never at the reason. To them, it's just an overpaid millionaire spitting in the face of America while enjoying the great gifts that the country has given him. All those people killed by cops? Must have been dirtbags/criminals that the liberal media has made into martyrs for Obama's agenda.

There's not much convincing people who hold these viewpoints; the internet will provide all the proof you need for the opinion of your choice, no matter how divorced from observable reality it is.


A guy who came to do work at my house was spouting this "suppressed information" about the Phillandro Castille case (snopes link), saying that he was wanted for armed robbery and had a gun on his lap during the traffic stop, complete with photographic evidence.

It's the just world fallacy with a dollop of racism. Unarmed black person shot by a cop? They must have done something to deserve it, maybe breathed wrong or returned tapes to blockbuster unwound. Nothing seems to pierce this bubble.
posted by dr_dank at 5:58 PM on September 20, 2016 [6 favorites]


Being seen and heard is important because being oblivious is a form of “passive gaslighting” – making them doubt that they are living in reality.
It's not getting worse, it has been like this, and a huge swath of people has been willfully living in oblivion to what is happening. All the attention is not making it worse, it's been this bad for a long time.
posted by sockermom at 6:04 PM on September 20, 2016 [27 favorites]


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posted by Token Meme at 6:05 PM on September 20, 2016


.

I am so, so sorry for his family and friends. I am sickened, appalled, and ashamed that America is like this.
posted by Janta at 6:10 PM on September 20, 2016 [7 favorites]


In other police-shoot-black-men news:

Shaun King: VERY IMPORTANT: A St. Louis Police Officer was caught on film getting a gun out of a duffel bag from his own car and planting it on a Black man he had just shot and killed. He then claimed that the man had pointed the gun at him.

Except when they tested the gun, it only had the DNA and fingerprints on it from the officer.

---

Disabled Black Man Shot Dead by Police While Reading in the Car (Charlotte, NC)
posted by rtha at 6:17 PM on September 20, 2016 [47 favorites]


I just.....

*throws computer against wall in rage*
posted by Fizz at 6:24 PM on September 20, 2016 [7 favorites]


I'm with you, Fizz. Regardless that I'm a white middle-class dude, this shit literally makes me cry in simultaneous heartbreak and rage. It's way beyond the point of over the top. Apparently voting, local or otherwise, has done nothing so far to convince politicians this is a serious problem - even beanplating it on the Internet isn't helping. What the fuck do we do to change this?? Is it going to take relentlessly facing down hugely over-equipped police forces en mass with laptops and golf clubs, letting the death toll mount up until the government starts fucking noticing? I'm about ready to throw my life away at this point, either by becoming "part of the problem" or by slitting my fucking wrists in despair of the stupid racist pigheaded ineffectual goddamn human race and have done with it.
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:34 PM on September 20, 2016 [6 favorites]


I get why the emphasis on "innocent" and "unarmed." I do. The media has historically been terrible about blaming the victims of these shootings.

That being said, it is still not justice when the person involved is not innocent. And if we tolerate this behavior (shooting to kill) when folks are involved in crime; and police are trained to think any person (of color) is a would-be criminal, then I this kind of tragedy is bound to happen. We need to change the approach to policing crime, just as badly as we need to unequivocally condemn the shooting of unarmed, innocent civilians.
posted by likeatoaster at 6:40 PM on September 20, 2016 [24 favorites]


In an interview, Officer Shelby’s lawyer, Scott Wood, said the officer had thought that Mr. Crutcher had a weapon. Mr. Wood said Mr. Crutcher had acted erratically, refused to comply with several orders, tried to put his hand in his pocket and reached inside his car window before he was shot.

The car window you ordered him to go to while he was standing in the open with his hands over his head?
posted by edeezy at 6:48 PM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]


Do you know what injustices like this--seemingly practiced over and over and over again--breeds eventually?
Terrorism. And do you know who often bears the heaviest brunt of organized terrorism? the Police.
I don't think we are quite there yet, but every horrific act like this by agents of the state pushes us, millimeter by millimeter, dead body by dead body, ever closer.
God, some days I despair for this nation.
posted by Chrischris at 6:51 PM on September 20, 2016 [8 favorites]


In an interview, Officer Shelby’s lawyer, Scott Wood, said the officer had thought that Mr. Crutcher had a weapon. Mr. Wood said Mr. Crutcher had acted erratically, refused to comply with several orders, tried to put his hand in his pocket and reached inside his car window before he was shot.

Too bad for that oh so convenient and exculpatory lie that a Crutcher family lawyer has a blown up still from the helicopter footage showing Crutcher lying on the ground unmoving in a pool of his own blood with the window completely rolled up.
posted by jamjam at 7:03 PM on September 20, 2016 [16 favorites]


Chrischris,

I know that I've mentioned it and I've seen it mentioned in other threads by other MeFites, there's this worry that some day we (persons of colour) will be pushed over the edge, into that place where you become the angry stereotype that the world keeps trying to make you out to be. You're labelled as such every where you go and yet there's a limit to how much you can endure. You can only politely grin and bear it for so long. You worry about the day you'll snap and lose your shit and something horrible will happen. I have this worry some times. That I'll just not know how to deal with it all. It's a scary thought. I hope that I can always take the higher road and be more enlightened.
posted by Fizz at 7:04 PM on September 20, 2016 [8 favorites]


Mr. Wood said Mr. Crutcher had acted erratically, refused to comply with several orders

Gee, I wonder why someone whose car had broken down -- a very, very stressful situation for most of us: you're thinking, "Damn, how the hell am I going to pay for this? How the hell am I getting to work tomorrow? Goddamnit!" if you're like me-- and who is now surrounded by way more police officers than seems even remotely logical for his situation, circled by a helicopter, yelled at and drawn on by people he thought were there to help him might be acting "erratically"? Why wasn't he just acting as any normal person would in that perfectly normal situation?

I've related this before, but it's worth repeating: when I was stopped by police at UT several years ago as I came out of a gym because I supposedly matched the description of an African-American male suspected of serial rape (sure I did), as I saw the half dozen or so cops surrounding me with their hands near their waists, it took a supreme level of concentration and effort to keep my knees from knocking together and to answer their questions without stammering and stuttering. Had I failed in that effort, I'm sure I would have been described as acting "erratically" and "suspicious" in response to the officers' questioning.

Nobody knows in advance how the fuck they're going to respond when police officers approach them in an aggressive mode. Nobody. Especially if they're coming at you aggro when you haven't done a damn thing.

I will go to my grave believing that PCP was planted.

.
posted by lord_wolf at 7:04 PM on September 20, 2016 [134 favorites]


I don't think we are quite there yet, but every horrific act like this by agents of the state pushes us, millimeter by millimeter, dead body by dead body, ever closer.

I don't disagree. Arguably this already went down in Dallas, didn't it?

"The old code of equity law under which we live commands for every wrong a remedy, but in too many communities, in too many parts of the country, wrongs are inflicted on Negro citizens and there are no remedies at law. Unless the Congress acts, their only remedy is in the streets."

John Kennedy, 19-fucking-63. (Also shot in Dallas, actually)
posted by absalom at 7:06 PM on September 20, 2016 [13 favorites]


posted by Chrischris Do you know what injustices like this--seemingly practiced over and over and over again--breeds eventually? Terrorism . . . I don't think we are quite there yet

Oh, we've been there a long time. Unfortunately, the terrorists are the police.
posted by mattdidthat at 7:07 PM on September 20, 2016 [6 favorites]


Heartbreaking. Just heartbreaking. We are just destroying ourselves.
posted by gt2 at 7:08 PM on September 20, 2016


The sheer brazenness of these killings is just horrifying.

Seriously, where do we even go from here?
posted by absalom at 7:10 PM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]


.
.
posted by Deoridhe at 7:10 PM on September 20, 2016


.
posted by BlueHorse at 7:14 PM on September 20, 2016


posted by absalom Seriously, where do we even go from here?

1: Stop rewarding cops with paid vacations when they kill people
posted by mattdidthat at 7:17 PM on September 20, 2016 [33 favorites]


I'm sorry Terence. I wish I knew the answers to solving the horrible problems of privilege and prejudice that keeps stealing lives and breaking hearts. I'm sorry for the pain your family must now and forever endure. I'm sorry that your 4 children lost their father, not just to death, but to hatred as well. I hope that, not just Tulsa, but as a nation, that we rise up - in peace and conviction - and work for justice and equality. The justice and equality already hundreds of years over due.

.
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 7:21 PM on September 20, 2016 [6 favorites]


Cut the power of police unions.
posted by Flashman at 7:24 PM on September 20, 2016 [7 favorites]


God damn it.

.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:25 PM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]


What I don't understand is when police officers get caught submitting false reports, planting guns or drugs, or covering up for other cops who do those things, why are they allowed to continue being police, instead of being sent to jail. Why does anyone in this country think that is acceptable?
posted by aubilenon at 7:26 PM on September 20, 2016 [18 favorites]


Also, many of these nightmares are a result of the increased militarization of the police. There seems to be little to no separation between the police and the military.
Suffolk County, NY, just outside New York City, just swore in a new class of police recruits a couple of weeks ago; 73 percent of them are military veterans. I find this horrifying.

And to make matters worse, the new Giants coach and one of his assistants, in talking about a possible protest this coming week, trotted out the nonsense about respecting the troops by standing for the National Anthem.
posted by etaoin at 7:26 PM on September 20, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm sure everyone's heard the old joke "98% of cops give all the rest a bad name." Well, at this point, "all the rest" need to get up off their implicitly-condoning, coverup-allowing asses and start ousting the bad guys. Are you listening? Even if you're one of the "good ones", your reputation is completely shot. You're hated, reviled, and feared.

Start earning the respect you think you deserve and stand up to this crap - expose the corruption and collusion! If you think Blue Lives Matter, then START MATTERING, otherwise you don't and you'll end up being dragged down into the muck with the other racist thugs.
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:27 PM on September 20, 2016 [17 favorites]


why are they allowed to continue being police, instead of being sent to jail.

Who's going to enforce it, other cops?
posted by CrystalDave at 7:29 PM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]


In Massachusetts today, the Supreme Judicial Court (the state's highest) ruled that the fact a black man jogged away from a police officer investigating a break-in was by itself not enough for probable cause to chase after him and search him, in part because even completely innocent black men in Boston have some good reasons to avoid police.
posted by adamg at 7:44 PM on September 20, 2016 [47 favorites]


Etaoin, I share your horror. One concept I have considered is that ex-military should be barred from law enforcement work. Not because I do not respect what they have done for our country, but because the training that is so deeply impressed on those in the military is simply not compatible with civilian policing. I fear it lends itself toward a "shoot first and ask questions later" mentality that is clearly a problem.
posted by ArizonaJedi at 7:44 PM on September 20, 2016 [5 favorites]


Even if his toxicology report comes back positive for PCP?

Yes. The burden is on the police to make reliable chains of custody and accountability and they've failed. I'd assume the report had been tainted or faked too. It would take some great evidence to persuade me otherwise.

Not that it matters. It still wouldn't warrant summary execution.
posted by Salamandrous at 7:47 PM on September 20, 2016 [21 favorites]


Hahahhahaha, yeah, it makes no sense to just trust in the police department's toxicology report: that's their alibi.
posted by 23skidoo at 7:48 PM on September 20, 2016 [7 favorites]


This makes me want to throw up.

I too believe any PCP was planted.

Homicide Sgt. Dave Walker would not tell Tulsa World where in the vehicle the officers found the PCP, nor would he confirm that Crutcher had used the drug prior to being shot on Friday night.

They need some time to get their story straight.
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:52 PM on September 20, 2016 [12 favorites]


UPDATE: Keith Lamont Scott Identified as Disabled Black Man Shot Dead by N.C. Police While Reading in Car: Police said they were searching for someone who had outstanding warrants when they saw a man with a gun leave a vehicle. The victim was not the subject of the search, said Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Chief Kerr Putney.

According to police reports, the man, who has not been named, returned to his vehicle. When they approached the man, they claim he “posed an imminent deadly threat to the officers” and one of them opened fire. An eyewitness told the victim’s daughter that a Taser was used on her father, then he was shot at least three times.

The victim’s daughter, identified on Facebook as Lyric YourAdorable Scott, found out that her father was dead via the news while recording from the scene of the shooting. The victim’s brother said he was holding a book, not a gun, and was just waiting on his son to be dropped off after school.

posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:52 PM on September 20, 2016 [8 favorites]


Even if there was reliable proof he had PCP in his car, the police didn't know that when they shot him, and he was moving slowly away from them with his hands up. Ex post facto justifications for shooting unarmed people that rely on the police being mind readers or having x-ray vision are complete bullshit and shouldn't be taken seriously by reasonable people.
posted by Mavri at 7:52 PM on September 20, 2016 [43 favorites]


Keith Lamont Scott Identified as Disabled Black Man Shot Dead by N.C. Police While Reading in Car

Fuck!?! I do this all the time. My mother does not drive and so I'll often arrive a few minutes early to pick her up and will sit in the car and read. Should I be worried that someone will think I am being suspicious because I'm sitting in a car late at night?!!? Fucking hell. I really hate this planet.
posted by Fizz at 7:56 PM on September 20, 2016 [9 favorites]


Nobody knows in advance how the fuck they're going to respond when police officers approach them in an aggressive mode.

Strangely, those who seem to want absolutely no outside accountability for police officers are familiar with this. They'll tell you so when these conversations about unarmed people getting shot come up. They'll tell you that you don't know what it's like to be a police officer and be confronted aggro on a regular basis. That you don't know what you'd do.

OK, I buy that. I don't know. I bet there are times I'd do rash things under pressure. Sometimes I do rash things under less pressure.

But nope. Somehow all the empathy is on one side of the thin blue line, and any notion of accountability stays solidly on the other one.
posted by wildblueyonder at 7:59 PM on September 20, 2016 [7 favorites]


Possession of PCP is not a capital offense.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:59 PM on September 20, 2016 [10 favorites]




Aaaaaaand my home state (and home town) is in the news for being backward af AGAIN! It's always something like this, it seems — a judge that masturbates during a trial, the legislature making performing an abortion a capital crime or banning AP history classes, the governor sucking up to Trump — we can always be counted on to get the wrong kind of attention.

I feel terrible: for Terence Crutcher's family, and for all of us as humans.
posted by ivanthenotsoterrible at 8:16 PM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]


I just can't even. Not to excuse racist murdering cops, but this article from Scientific American may be of interest: Stress Training for Cops' Brains Could Reduce Suspect Shootings.
posted by Bella Donna at 8:19 PM on September 20, 2016 [5 favorites]


Yeah, how long did the officer observe Crutcher before determining he was on PCP and then killing him? Like 20 seconds? And then they find it in his car the next day? That's like some deep observational skills.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:30 PM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]


Etaoin, I share your horror. One concept I have considered is that ex-military should be barred from law enforcement work. Not because I do not respect what they have done for our country, but because the training that is so deeply impressed on those in the military is simply not compatible with civilian policing. I fear it lends itself toward a "shoot first and ask questions later" mentality that is clearly a problem.

From my own experience with deadly force training in the Navy and the related experiences of others this is a baseless stereotype.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 8:34 PM on September 20, 2016 [18 favorites]


mattdidthat: "Stop rewarding cops with paid vacations when they kill people"

I've always figured that cops that are involved in a shooting by cop should have to take a six month, federally run, training course on de-esculation and appropriate use of force before being allow to carry a gun on duty. 12 months if anyone dies. They can work a desk if they want to get paid otherwise uncompensated (we won't make them pay out of pocket for the course). I bet there would be a lot less gun play if every time you fired meant six months unpaid vacation. And if your life was truly in danger you probably need that much time to recover from the stress anyways.

Plus pee in cup/blow a breathalyser immediately (like within the hour) after the shooting (maybe they do this already?). Unpaid suspensions if substances are detected that would get your CDL suspended.
posted by Mitheral at 8:45 PM on September 20, 2016 [14 favorites]


Given that we don't have a rash of MPs shooting service members, I'd say ex-MPs might well make the best cops.

On the topic at hand, why am I not surprised that they "found PCP." Never mind that as of a year ago, PCP was not available in Tulsa at all. This is, after all, the same place where a ring of Sheriff's deputies were planting evidence (guns and drugs, mainly) and stealing cash from arrestees for literally years before being caught.

I don't know about anybody else, but I'd have been a lot more likely to believe it was a necessary (in the sense that the officer at the time reasonably feared for their life.. in hindsight it was obviously unnecessary since the victim had no weapon) shooting if it weren't for the character assassination that has followed. Every damn time they do it my brain screams cover up.

I've heard enough stories from the cops in my family about people they approach being stupid and reaching in their waistband or whatever to try and toss the drugs they are carrying to believe that some of these shootings are justified. I do not in any way believe that the number that we are seeing isn't far beyond that level, though. It amazes me that cops as a group aren't trying to get rid of these trigger happy fucks so that they don't get tarred with the same brush should they be involved in a legitimate use of deadly force, because as it is it isn't at all unreasonable to assume that all uses of deadly force that don't have shots being fired by the victim immediately prior to their being shot are unjustified.

Ending the war on drugs would do a great deal to deescalate, but sadly at this point would only put a small dent in the overall problem. It wouldn't have done a damn thing to help this situation, or the one in Florida last year in any case.
posted by wierdo at 8:52 PM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]


> What the fuck do we do to change this??

In response to an earlier post, modified:
  1. The cost of summary judgement in all lawsuits and victim settlements comes out of police department pension funds.
  2. Mandated, tamper-proof always-on-outside-station body cameras, with audio. All recordings streamed to an offsite backup outside the precinct's control.
  3. Any cop who obscures the lens or mic of the recording device, or attempts to mess with the stream, is instantly terminated.
  4. Fully independent, citizen-run police investigative councils, with the power to subpoena cops, recommendations passed on to state prosecutors.
  5. Broad cross-jurisdictional agreements to not rehire cops with poor disciplinary histories.
  6. At the federal level, the ability and willingness to go in and fire everyone in a department.
  7. At the training level, an emphasis on crisis management, rather than force-up aggressive responses.
  8. The removal of military-grade hardware from police departments.
  9. Regular drug testing for officers, most especially steroid detection.
At this point, I honestly feel that we're at the level of needing a Truth and Reconciliation probe: a complete, nationwide, top-to-bottom investigation, and a total reconsideration of what law enforcement should be.
posted by Bora Horza Gobuchul at 8:54 PM on September 20, 2016 [65 favorites]


.
posted by robcorr at 9:06 PM on September 20, 2016


I just watched a new Hong Kong action flick portraying something called the ICAC, Independent Commission Against Corruption: it was established by the governor under British Rule in 1974, its mission being "to clean up endemic corruption in the many departments of the Hong Kong Government through law enforcement, prevention and community education." My Asian family explained to me that because of the job description, these anticorruption investigators were basically universally professionally reviled. Not sure how things are today, but back in the days if you joined this organization some believed you'd better prepare to be socially ostracized.

But what's interesting is the apparent lack in Western culture of an equivalent institution. Yes, Americans and the media discuss and debate the need for accountability and watchdog organizations, but either an American equivalent still does not really exist, or if it does, it's certainly not penetrating the expectations of the mainstream public. In Hong Kong, the movies have made ICAC a household name. That should be the level of discourse, ideally.
posted by polymodus at 9:11 PM on September 20, 2016 [5 favorites]


I honestly feel that we're at the level of needing a Truth and Reconciliation probe: a complete, nationwide, top-to-bottom investigation, and a total reconsideration of what law enforcement should be.

The problem with any reforms is the fractured nature of policing. There's not only 50 seperate states, at least 30 of which governed by legislatures more interested in shouting "all lives matter" on FOX News than anything else, but most police forces are local, subject only to local prosecutors in league with the perpetrating officers, and enabling city councils ruled by the police union.

The police have perfectly exploited cracks in the system to avoid any reform or accountability.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:15 PM on September 20, 2016 [4 favorites]


T.D. Strange: ACLU: Audio recording captures Connecticut state police conspiring to fabricate criminal charges

So stuff like this is damning after the fact, but how about before entering an engagement or other term used when police pull guns on a potential suspect or criminal or whatnot, the police use their dash cam and/or body cam or whatever bit of technology is supposed to end shit like this by "holding officers accountable" and they say a few words.

"I am entering [this scene] with the concern that [visual description of the person(s)] will [do something that would validate the use of deadly force, but not in so many words]"

Say something like "I'm concerned that this 6'2" black man in a dark grey hoodie and dark denim jeans will pull a gun on me and others and shoot." "I am worried that this African American boy, appearing to be between 15 and 18 years old will use that bright green and orange gun to shoot someone in the vicinity." Then your justification for your actions are on record before a shot is fired. And then you have the video of the individual(s) at the other end of the officer's gun, so people can later see "what tipped you off that this person actually intended to use deadly force?"

Maybe, just maybe, officers will start thinking about what is going on in front of them. Look at the person as more than just "a bad dude," but someone with discernible details. You couldn't call in "a bad dude" fleeing the scene of a crime, could you?


Really, I wish there were more communities like those in rural Alaska. I know that's not like many other communities in the US, but let's look to that as a general goal in the long term. After all, what good is it if there are a ton of police cars parked in neighborhoods like mine, in part because there are significant number of different jurisdictions in this greater region, and the homes are affordable for middle-income families. Still, what good is it doing to other communities, where there's not a police, sheriff or DHS vehicle on almost every block and cul-de-sac?


And maybe shooting range experience can be a bit more diverse than a bunch of stationary, generic targets that are literally targets. Something like Men in Black, but no creatures from another dimension.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:17 PM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]


.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 9:27 PM on September 20, 2016


I'd like to see that when a person is severely injured by cop fire, there should be a mandated requirement that the shooting officer perform extensive life saving measures on the individual, even if the person appears to be completely nonresponsive. The victim is not a dying rabid animal, they're a human being, and should be treated like one. No emergency care = instant termination, mandatory arrest and a felony charge. Just like hit-and-run drivers, it's their cavalier lack of concern or remorse that serves to condemn the perpetrators and ought to send them straight to prison. And we see this pattern over and over again with these shootings, the victim just left to die as if their life is not worth a second thought. It's disgusting, utterly shameless.
posted by xigxag at 9:42 PM on September 20, 2016 [49 favorites]


Actual compliance might be a myth, a unicorn, an impossibility.

Actual compliance is death.
posted by adept256 at 9:47 PM on September 20, 2016 [8 favorites]


.

Fuck absolutely everything about this. Everything about this.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 9:58 PM on September 20, 2016 [8 favorites]


.
posted by airish at 9:59 PM on September 20, 2016


1. No one should be a cop who thinks cops are badasses.
2. No one should be a cop who thinks that there is a thin blue line between order and chaos only the police can hold.
3. No white men under the age of thirty-five. (This one is a problem I know. As a white man let me just say that testosterone rich, entitled white guys having bad attitudes about other people are just to appallingly common to take the risk of handing them a gun and asking them to be LEO's. Basically: Power + Cocksure Arrogance + Little to no Empathy for Others = No Good.)
4. Every three months officers should be required to sit through seminars with the wrongfully convicted and/or the families of the loved ones killed by the police.
5. Full Civilian oversight of the Police with an Office of Professional Responsibility outside of the Police Command structure.
6. Any proven Abuse of Force complaint results in a minimum six months probation and mandatory retraining. A second means being barred from any LEO position in the USA.
7. Mandatory ongoing counseling for LEO's.

People who serve as police officers should be respected because they do a difficult job well. Making it through the Academy and wearing a uniform are insufficient cause for respect. One should do good police work. One should never feel that being a cop is their identity. Work Blue, don't bleed it.
posted by Ignorantsavage at 10:23 PM on September 20, 2016 [7 favorites]


One concept I have considered is that ex-military should be barred from law enforcement work. Not because I do not respect what they have done for our country, but because the training that is so deeply impressed on those in the military is simply not compatible with civilian policing. I fear it lends itself toward a "shoot first and ask questions later" mentality that is clearly a problem

The opposite of this appears to be true, as illustrated by the case of this cop who was fired for not shooting someone.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:32 PM on September 20, 2016 [20 favorites]


"the movies have made ICAC a household name. That should be the level of discourse, ideally."

So the discource of ideals should be conveyed through movies.
Well, we have NCIS and their track record is not as corrupt as the ICAC/CAC.
posted by clavdivs at 10:43 PM on September 20, 2016


Bora Horza Gobuchul, I totally agree. But that involves the government actually doing something substantive.....
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:47 PM on September 20, 2016


>What the fuck do we do to change this??

With respect and apologies to everyone putting forth thoughtful and reasonable suggestions here: come on. Let's acknowledge that this -- what we're doing here -- this is masturbation, pure and simple. We all know this. None of these ideas are ever going to happen, not in the current social and political climate. If they were going to happen, they'd have happened by now. The people who have the ability to make broad sweeping changes just don't care enough, not yet. It's going to take a hell of a lot more than words online to make anything change here.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 10:55 PM on September 20, 2016 [13 favorites]


I'd say "journalism" and "politics" are two big things people can do in whatever capacity.
posted by rhizome at 11:06 PM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]


One concept I have considered is that ex-military should be barred from law enforcement work. Not because I do not respect what they have done for our country, but because the training that is so deeply impressed on those in the military is simply not compatible with civilian policing. I fear it lends itself toward a "shoot first and ask questions later" mentality that is clearly a problem

From my own experience with deadly force training in the Navy and the related experiences of others this is a baseless stereotype.

Ditto with my experience in the Coast Guard. It's been a long time, but to my memory we had even looser rules and more freedom to act than most local law-enforcement communities, yet Coasties don't seem all that eager to pull the trigger by comparison.

Also worth remembering are all the tweets from Iraq & Afghan vets regarding pics out of the Ferguson protests asking WTF the cops were doing with their confrontational tactics and who taught them how to hold a gun. This is really not a military-to-police pipeline problem.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:07 PM on September 20, 2016 [11 favorites]


None of these ideas are ever going to happen, not in the current social and political climate.

I'm acutely aware of that. It's what maks me weep in impotent fury.
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:15 PM on September 20, 2016


Of course, there's always the question of how much overlap there is between the sort of vet that joins a police force after they leave the army and those criticising police shooting discipline. There were a hell of a lot innocent Iraqis murdered by US troops too, I seem to recall. Abu Ghraib is not that far removed from that illegal prison the police operated in Chicago (iirc) either.

I have the feeling that the sort of vet who does join the police is more likely to be on the side of the shooter than the shootee, more like to think blue lives matter than black.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:18 PM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]


I have the feeling that the sort of vet person who does join the police is more likely to be on the side of the shooter than the shootee, more like to think blue lives matter than black.

FTFY.

But sure, let's keep stereotyping veterans because that group really benefits from further societal alienation.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:21 PM on September 20, 2016 [8 favorites]


I feel sorry for those folks who got killed but this is not newsworthy. This is the way most white Americans have decided we should live. I wonder what city the next police shooting will be. I hope it's not me or my loved ones.
posted by RedShrek at 11:49 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]


People still dust?
The market for PCP consists entirely of cops who learned how to plant evidence from 80s action movies.
posted by fullerine at 12:23 AM on September 21, 2016 [40 favorites]


I'm a little confused. According to police, he had his primary care physician sitting in the front seat and the cops didn't let her administer first aid? For shame.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 12:42 AM on September 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


Last night I found myself wondering what would happen should orangeface come to power if this is how it is with a black president.
posted by infini at 12:43 AM on September 21, 2016 [4 favorites]




"Ghost Skins"

FBI report from 2006.
Re-train the police. It is the only way.
posted by From Bklyn at 3:12 AM on September 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


...Apparently voting, local or otherwise, has done nothing so far to convince politicians this is a serious problem - even beanplating it on the Internet isn't helping. What the fuck do we do to change this??

But voting in local elections has decreased in recent years, sending a message to politicians that we think the status quo is just fine: "Voter turnout for local elections, typically held in off-cycle years, has historically lagged behind state and federal races set to take place in November, but recent results suggest it’s slowly becoming even worse."

My point is that folks like mayors, city councils and governors set the tone on how policing is carried out on the local level.

Something that's stuck with me is this local NPR story from last year about why people weren't voting in last fall's local elections. Thanks to lack of interest we ended up with a tea party governor, who's well on his way to sending the commonwealth back into the middle ages.
posted by SteveInMaine at 3:24 AM on September 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


My privilege led me to making a dumb joke, above. I should have checked myself. Instead I wrecked myself, and I hope my stupidity is something people can walk away from.

There is nothing funny about the police murder of Terence Crutcher.

I am insulated by my distance and my whiteness, and ashamed of my comfort. My joke was a disgrace.

I'm sorry.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 4:06 AM on September 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


The thing that's making me so mad about the Keith Lamont Scott shooting is that now the narrative is focusing on whether or not he had a gun. I mean, we'll probably never know for sure, but either way the only thing police have said so far is that they were there looking for a suspect (not Scott) and he got out of his car once, then got out of it again "with a weapon" and they feared for their safety and shot him.
As far as the police story goes so far there was no altercation or other lead up to the shooting.

So we have a guy shot for simply getting out of his car in (I assume) his own apartment complex in a heavily pro-gun state.

What makes this worse is that according to the family the cops were plain clothes (the police have not commented either way), which means that now we're picturing Scott sitting in his car near his home when a bunch of regularly dressed strangers with guns at their hips converged on his neighborhood and his car.

If 'it is determined' that he did in fact have a gun, I eagerly await a statement from the NRA.
posted by geegollygosh at 4:24 AM on September 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


The market for PCP consists entirely of cops who learned how to plant evidence from 80s action movies.

I've commented on it before, but during high school ('90s) I repeatedly had to sit through police-run drug "education" programs at school. Repeatedly, PCP was brought up as this mythical thing by them that turns (non-white) people into uncontrollable, supernaturally strong lunatics who don't feel pain as they rampage about destroying property and/or people.

20 years later and surprise surprise, it's still the go-to explanation for why they just had to shoot a non-white person.
posted by tocts at 4:36 AM on September 21, 2016 [13 favorites]


1. The cost of summary judgement in all lawsuits and victim settlements comes out of police department pension funds.
2. Mandated, tamper-proof always-on-outside-station body cameras, with audio. All recordings streamed to an offsite backup outside the precinct's control.
3. Any cop who obscures the lens or mic of the recording device, or attempts to mess with the stream, is instantly terminated.
4. Fully independent, citizen-run police investigative councils, with the power to subpoena cops, recommendations passed on to state prosecutors.
5. Broad cross-jurisdictional agreements to not rehire cops with poor disciplinary histories.
6. At the federal level, the ability and willingness to go in and fire everyone in a department.
7. At the training level, an emphasis on crisis management, rather than force-up aggressive responses.
8. The removal of military-grade hardware from police departments.
9. Regular drug testing for officers, most especially steroid detection.


From upthread a ways, but I'm ganking your entire protocol, Bora Horza Gobuchul. I've tried in the past to articulate the steps I think comprehensive police reform in the United States would require, but I think you've done a better job and will be sharing that around in a variety of ways.

And . for Terence.
posted by adamgreenfield at 4:41 AM on September 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


Strangely, those who seem to want absolutely no outside accountability for police officers are familiar with this. They'll tell you so when these conversations about unarmed people getting shot come up. They'll tell you that you don't know what it's like to be a police officer and be confronted aggro on a regular basis. That you don't know what you'd do.

I know this is not your argument, but I say that if they don't know what they'll do then they shouldn't be cops until their training is sufficient to ensure what they will do.

Also taxi driver is far more dangerous than being a cop but we don't hear stories about taxi drivers slaughtering people in the streets left and right.

I no more believe they found PCP than I believe they found unicorns and leprechauns. If anything is found the fuckers planted it.

Great job getting all the people in the country to distrust everything you say and fear you, police! That won't make what should be your actual job, being peace officers, harder!
posted by winna at 5:48 AM on September 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Look, I get the inclination toward despair and feeling impotent, but reality check here: a lot of the people who read metafilter are white people with a lot of privilege.

Political and institutional change comes slowly, but it can come of you are willing to do the work of getting organized. Contact your elected officials, support journalism that can pierce the police cover-ups, get involved with black-led organizations that are pushing for police accountability. And use your voice - in the age of facebook this issue is finally getting some attention, let's not let that light die out.
posted by mai at 5:53 AM on September 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


PCP? How do they even know?

It was in a bag labelled: This is PCP which belongs to the scary black man and was not planted here by cops.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:16 AM on September 21, 2016 [18 favorites]


PCP? How do they even know?

Best, honest guess, assuming it wasn't planted (a belief I have zero faith in) is that it was a liquid in a vial and they guessed PCP because it sounds scary.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:42 AM on September 21, 2016


If 'it is determined' that he did in fact have a gun, I eagerly await a statement from the NRA.

At this point in history, the NRA (and for that matter, any large 2A advocacy group) is barely removed from the KKK when it comes to the shootings of PoC. The organization has demonized PoC and religious minorities relentlessly, often advocating for curtailing their civil rights (often including the 2A) so much that any current spokesperson should be assumed to be a white supremacist.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:47 AM on September 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


PCP? How do they even know?

Because they're lying.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 6:51 AM on September 21, 2016 [13 favorites]


.
posted by eckeric at 7:00 AM on September 21, 2016


.
posted by newdaddy at 7:03 AM on September 21, 2016


..

It would be nice if this country could go more than a week without the extrajudicial killing of an obviously innocent black person.
posted by graventy at 7:15 AM on September 21, 2016 [6 favorites]


Words fail me.

It keeps going on, it has been going on for decades, and it shows no sign of stopping or even slowing down.

Fear of exposure isn't changing jack shit.

And even if there were the political will to do something, which there isn't, the system is geared to prevent any changes from being made. All local police agencies are 100% independent and do not answer to any higher authority. There are, literally, no fooling, over 18,000 different law enforcement agencies in the USA. One for every county, municipality, and other political subdivision. And not one single one of them is bound to any authority other than the local top cop (sheriff, police chief, whatever).

Fixing the problem requires not merely the political will to admit that it is a problem, which doesn't exist, but the political will to completely demolish the current structure of law enforcement and create a more hierarchical, top down, sort of policing system.

Currently we can't even muster the political will to charge police with murder when they blatantly murder someone. Currently we can't even muster the political will to get murderous cops fired even if they aren't charged.

And, by "muster the political will", I mean get enough white people to give a shit. Because, yet again, this is a problem caused entirely by white voters supporting racist policies.
posted by sotonohito at 7:17 AM on September 21, 2016 [4 favorites]




roomthreeseventeen: Not your doing. That, however, is a poorly-written, baffling lead paragraph.
posted by raysmj at 7:28 AM on September 21, 2016 [6 favorites]


Indeed. Even the writing in the article is confusing.

Internet friends arguing that the daughter lying about the book is the catalyst for the riots (and should be held accountable) since the event happened at 4pm, but the riots didn't start until after the book claim. This whole thing is messed up in so many ways.
posted by snwod at 7:33 AM on September 21, 2016


It doesn't matter if he was carrying a book or a gun. North Carolina is an open carry state.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:35 AM on September 21, 2016 [10 favorites]


It wouldn't be enough, but it'd be a step in the right direction if these press conferences stopped using weasel words like "subject" and "succumbed to his injuries." He was person, he died, just speak like a human being please.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:35 AM on September 21, 2016 [14 favorites]


but one of the absolute worst is the way that our terrorism statistics don't count black people murdered by the police.

Datasets on terrorism for the most part do not include attacks by the state security forces.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 7:55 AM on September 21, 2016


Also, data on terrorism is collected by governments, they're usually drawn from newspapers.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 7:55 AM on September 21, 2016


Somehow all the empathy is on one side of the thin blue line, and any notion of accountability stays solidly on the other one.

We've had an ongoing effort to make policemen into heroes because that narrative suits Hollywood and the people who run police forces. And guess what? It's working.
posted by sneebler at 8:48 AM on September 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


It keeps going on, it has been going on for decades, and it shows no sign of stopping or even slowing down.

One of my social media circles is primarily based on the African continent. They think its a hidden civil war/apartheid and wonder when the camel's back.
posted by infini at 9:04 AM on September 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Kiese Laymon, on Facebook:

I don't drink. I don't smoke. I don't sniff. I don't eat meat. I write and I eat all the cakes. Police have handcuffed me and tossed me in the back of their cars for throwing crack out my window, stealing my own car and selling pain killers prescribed by my dentist. I didn't do none of that shit. But I taught wealthy white boy students at Vassar who did all that shit and more. Some got their drugs from their parents. I never heard of any of them getting hemmed up by police. PCP!? He had PCP in his car? Just like Rodney Cyborg King? Police, please start shooting wealthy white boys and their parents in the back and blaming it on PCP. Shoot ten every day for the rest of year. By January 1, I guarantee American policing as we know it would be abolished. Or they'd go back to shooting broke niggas in the back on January 2nd and all would be fine.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:11 AM on September 21, 2016 [29 favorites]


Re-train the police. It is the only way.

I honestly don't think change can be achieved by re-training, the whole concept of policing in America is rotten. It needs to be dismantled and replaced with something else, something largely unarmed, with a more limited mandate, and, most importantly, something with a more appropriate idea of its own power.
posted by ghharr at 9:13 AM on September 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


I apologize in advance for totally agreeing with y’all but y’know, in the wrong way, which makes me a fascist stooge, but…

I take slight exception to the “militarization of police” phrase as it expresses the concept it’s supposed to express.
What’s going on is a para-militarization of police. It is more, literally in form (so no Godwin) akin to the Nazi Schutzstaffel that enforced racial policy than a military force that fights open battles.
And before my comment gets deleted do yourself a favor and read this.

It’s a NYT piece, not technical. It’s a kind of “why” these kinds of things happen.

From a military/tactical perspective – see how they’re all grouped together? A military squad wouldn’t do that. And the police, most particularly here where they’ve got room around them to maneuver, shouldn’t do that either. No one is maneuvering or looking to close to prevent him from getting his hand in the window in the first place, they’re all relying on the threat of shooting. There’s no dispersion, and the officer in back of them is useless positionally.

All fire, no movement except to advance packed shoulder to shoulder.
And there’s a lot of shouting going on. There isn’t one clear command by one person. (“Mr. Crutcher had acted erratically, refused to comply with several orders…” well, duh)

No one is giving direction to the others. They’re acting as a small mob of people with guns, not as a trained group. No one is looking at what their partners are doing much less looking to support their actions instead of initiating their own. Everyone there, with the exception of the officer in back, is looking to be the primary shooter. No one is looking for cover or to get a better position to act.

Zero small unit leadership, so no militarization at all. And handguns are about useless in real stopping power (yeah, yeah, debatable as to what “stopping power” means)
That is, someone who is prepared to die will have a good few seconds to a half minute of action to them before they bleed out enough to go down or someone hits the medulla.
All this amounts to the demand for compliance under the threat of death rather than a truly defensive profile. They are demanding the suspect do what they say – and somehow know not to do things they would not like, such as reaching into the car (to get his license) – or they kill him. They are not defending themselves.

All that apart from the implicit racism, etc.

All the philosophical emphasis of training is on keeping officers safe. It’s sacrosanct. Gotta be safe, gotta be safe, gotta be safe. The practical aspects of most firearm training come from competition shooting – speed, accuracy, no need for cover, limited firing profiles.
Combine those two you have police who are quick to shoot anyone (and accurately) who flinches (certainly more black men are perceived as a threat, but again, that factor aside) because they’re not taking steps to protect themselves by taking cover or taking steps to cover their teammates because they’ve limited their firing profile to “stand up straight and shoot.”

Muscle memory is a real thing. If they stand in front of a Hogan’s alley video and aim their gun while people flinch at them until they can find the one who they need to shoot at, this is what they’re going to do in practice.
Whereas if the philosophy was to minimize civilian casualties and deescalate firearms as much as possible, you would have outcomes like the situation in England where police surrounded with shields and acting in concert, a suspect with a machete (posted a while back by someone)
The problem with Dr. Lewinski’s (and others) data isn’t that it’s wrong, it’s that it’s used to support a “way of the gun” philosophy rather than a protection philosophy.
A gun is not a shield. Combat troops know this. You take cover. You assess. You coordinate. The objective isn’t just to expend more ordinance.
And the fact that we won’t change the philosophy shows the degree to which we’re committed to racist policies.

And OF COURSE they found PCP. That makes everything justified, doesn’t it?

Hell, the entire drug war is FOR that. It doesn’t matter whether it was planted or not. The guy could be hauling bricks of cocaine the size of salt blocks, doesn’t change the fact that he was gunned down because the drug war is a cheap political excuse.

Every single cop could be a Buddhist monk, and we’d still have oppression and racism because it’s built into the system.

Or ya think the subprime mortgage industry collapse was just a couple of bad guys? That damn Bernie Madoff! Good thing he's in jail, everything will be alright now.

“It's going to take a hell of a lot more than words online to make anything change here.”

You’d think so. But every action is rooted in thought. It’s taken many decades but they’re starting to decriminalize cannabis. From a simple idea you can polarize actions.
That’s the problem with the “words online” thing. People argue and think “words online” are different than police shooting black men without cause.
It’s not. Philosophy rules actions, not the other way around. Look at the police in Portugal.


It’s similar to, and I hate to bring up such a 3rd rail but, abortion.
Is the idea we want less abortions or is the idea we want to argue over morality and biological vagaries?

If it’s the latter, we’re still mired decades after the die’s been cast. If it’s the former, all practical actions to prevent it become clear and it’s a settled matter (it’s just science).
So too – do we want law enforcement to deal with social problems in a moralizing (drugs R bad, m’kay?), manifestly dangerous to citizens method?

Or do we want to change economic, racial equity and social mobility policies so that the police can deal with more blatant and egregious crimes?

It’s the conceptual step we have to take first. Without that tactics will adopt themselves to the practical realities such as lying to cover up which prosecutors let slide because of tacit approval by policy makers.

Just like police training. Everything on the gun and compliance, you’ll not have any actual defensive tactics. The cops themselves could be racist bastards or pacifist Jains, they'd still react the way they're trained.
posted by Smedleyman at 9:25 AM on September 21, 2016 [49 favorites]


It wouldn't be enough, but it'd be a step in the right direction if these press conferences stopped using weasel words like "subject" and "succumbed to his injuries." He was person, he died, just speak like a human being please.

That type of language seems very intentional. It's a way to create distance from the incident. It makes it easier to talk about him if he is reduced to an object.

We should all remember, his name was Terence Crutcher.
posted by Fizz at 9:25 AM on September 21, 2016 [10 favorites]


It is pretty damn telling that police are absolutely terrified of being policed.
posted by srboisvert at 9:27 AM on September 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


It's rather disturbing to realize, looking back 25 years to the video of Rodney King surrounded and beaten with billy clubs, that in those days police were exercising restraint. He didn't get shot and killed.

Policing has gotten worse in those 25 years.
posted by JackFlash at 9:45 AM on September 21, 2016 [11 favorites]


the Washington Post: Should police officers be required to provide medical aid to people they've shot?

how is this even a question??? policing in america is just disgusting.
posted by burgerrr at 10:09 AM on September 21, 2016 [18 favorites]


To be fair, sanctamonious bigotry in a nation built on bigotry, means never having to say you're sorry.

I mean, literally never.



See one Donald Trump.
posted by notreally at 10:27 AM on September 21, 2016


You guys are a trip. You think in a nation with white supremacy at its root you can get a majority of its citizens to see black people as fully human? Really? I mean this is a nation where a bunch of white children were gunned down and that barely registered as a blip on the impact of gun culture. If a bunch of precious white children couldn't move the needle of change, do you seriously expect that needle to move because of black people?
posted by RedShrek at 10:36 AM on September 21, 2016 [12 favorites]


so what is your solution then, which is clearly so much better and smarter than ours?
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:53 AM on September 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


and to be clear, I honestly want to know. I don't even disagree with your assessment. But if the choices are "agitate and vocally/financially/politically oppose this incredible injustice" or "do nothing, shrug, business as usual," then why exactly is the latter the superior option while the former is laughable?
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:58 AM on September 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


You guys are a trip. You think in a nation with white supremacy at its root you can get a majority of its citizens to see black people as fully human?

I think hoping and trying is much better than standing back and scoffing in an effort to be the cool kid in school who shits on everything.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:03 PM on September 21, 2016 [6 favorites]


If a bunch of precious white children couldn't move the needle of change, do you seriously expect that needle to move because of black people?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I can choose to hope and try for change or I can lay down. I find laying down isn't in my nature.
posted by phearlez at 12:12 PM on September 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


And hope has gotten me and people who like me where exactly? What you're talking about is a false hope, a hope that somehow the moral arc of the universe will eventually bend towards justice. Well, what if it doesn't? You may think I'm scoffing at this but I really am not. I went to a HBCU located in a very poor under-resourced neighborhood. I joined a campus group that would volunteer each week at the local grade school teaching kids basic computer skills which many of the teachers did not know. Back then, you would never catch a white person walk down the streets in that neighborhood. The teachers while overworked and underpaid hoped for and dreamed of a better more prosperous future for the kids and the families in that neighborhood. Many years later, white people re-discovered the city their parents once fled for the suburbs. That school was eventually torn down and relocated to an even poorer part of town. In it's place, a bright shiny high rise apartment complex and more white people than a Bruce Springsteen concert. The hopes and dreams of those teachers accounted for nada when it came down to it. Look, I am a black man. I don't believe I can afford dealing and dabbling in false hope and meaningless platitudes. I understand the world for what it is and I deal with it as it presents itself for the sake of my sanity, my dignity and the safety of my body. So let me even more blunt: until a majority of whites come to the conclusion that black people are fully human and deserving of humanity. Until a critical mass of white conclude that the systems in place blocking the full realization of black people as fully human and fully American, there is nothing you or anyone on Metafilter can do to effect meaningful change.
posted by RedShrek at 12:21 PM on September 21, 2016 [25 favorites]


I don't think it's necessary to take it personally when someone reacts with cynicism and rage to a cynical murder and a rage-inducing event. No one is trying to be hipper or cooler than thou, and the empathy which we wish to engender starts at home. If you are not yet exhausted, that's good, but please try to have some compassion for those who might be closer to the line.
posted by Errant at 12:23 PM on September 21, 2016 [13 favorites]


If a bunch of precious white children couldn't move the needle of change, do you seriously expect that needle to move because of black people?

This hits hard. But I can't say it's wrong.

And our attachment to unrestricted handheld mechanized violence, our racism, and the metastasization of quasi-military tribal policing probably do have a common sickness at the root.
posted by wildblueyonder at 12:37 PM on September 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Until a critical mass of white conclude that the systems in place blocking the full realization of black people as fully human and fully American, there is nothing you or anyone on Metafilter can do to effect meaningful change.

Again, I don't at all disagree. However, that critical mass of white people isn't going to come from nowhere; if it comes, it will be because of ongoing efforts to *bring* them to that conclusion. And a fuckload of those efforts will need to be by white people, both because we fucked this shit up and because the very nature of the problem means we generally have more privilege and access.

And yes, those efforts are largely going to seem like futile windmill-tilting in the near term. *ESPECIALLY* to POC who are directly affected by our bullshit systems in the meantime.

I don't know. I guess I don't expect the needle to move, either, or anyway not in my lifetime. I just keep on trudging because it's better than the alternative. But if others out there need that hope to keep their heads in the fight, I'm also not going to try and snatch it away from them.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:58 PM on September 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


It's 2016. People still take PCP?
posted by srboisvert at 1:03 PM on September 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


"the movies have made ICAC a household name. That should be the level of discourse, ideally."

So the discource of ideals should be conveyed through movies.
Well, we have NCIS and their track record is not as corrupt as the ICAC/CAC.


Well what do you think is a reasonable interpretation of "That", that I meant that we should only learn from movies (actually, let's do consider film and artistic works as well as their political nature), or rather that NCIS or ICAC or whatever (problematic) institution could be more central to discussion and expectations about the case, and that its obvious lack says something about American police power and so on? Come on, I had a paragraph that set up the context of that one sentence.
posted by polymodus at 1:07 PM on September 21, 2016


Cops see videos like this when training

In that video the person the cop pulled over was yelling, which without watching all the video I don't know what this guy was doing. They are overly paranoid that their lives are in more danger than they are.

But in that video I linked: Pulled over guy yells at cop and goes back to truck and takes IIRC a mini14 and then shoots the cop dead.

I've seen other videos like this that I know are shown in training. This is why they shot him.

I'm not justifying it. I just understand why.
posted by blackmage at 1:16 PM on September 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Just give it a few more occurances; and a few more years. We'll be seeing a military grade mine resistant vehicle simply run somebody over. For being in the middle of the road having a bad moment in life, and God only knows what kind of narrative is playing out in the minds of the police in these incidents when they kill so quickly.
posted by buzzman at 1:25 PM on September 21, 2016




I'd like to see that when a person is severely injured by cop fire, there should be a mandated requirement that the shooting officer perform extensive life saving measures on the individual, even if the person appears to be completely nonresponsive. The victim is not a dying rabid animal, they're a human being, and should be treated like one. No emergency care = instant termination, mandatory arrest and a felony charge. Just like hit-and-run drivers, it's their cavalier lack of concern or remorse that serves to condemn the perpetrators and ought to send them straight to prison. And we see this pattern over and over again with these shootings, the victim just left to die as if their life is not worth a second thought. It's disgusting, utterly shameless.

It's on purpose. If the victim lived through the ordeal, they could make a statement contrary to whatever narrative the cops are ginning up. So they let them bleed to death.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:04 PM on September 21, 2016 [18 favorites]


Those not standing are looking more and more like the true patriots.
posted by adept256 at 2:05 PM on September 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


The Navy just revoked her security clearance & has threatened to jail her as a result of her refusal to stand."

Don't you have to commit a crime to be jailed? What would the charge be?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:05 PM on September 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm not that familiar with the Uniform Code of Military Justice, but it wouldn't surprise me if her protest were in violation of part of it. There's a lot in there about conduct, not just "crimes".

(Which is not me saying it's right for her to be jailed for this protest. But it's probably legal under the UCMJ.)
posted by tobascodagama at 2:20 PM on September 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


It's entirely legal under the UCMJ. Serving military personnel are required by general order to salute the flag and attend the national anthem in specific ways, and failure to do so is a violation of Article 92, disobeying a direct order. I doubt she'll get a dishonorable discharge for it, but she certainly could. This isn't a free speech issue in the military, who are commonly constrained in ways that civilians are not.
posted by Errant at 2:26 PM on September 21, 2016 [10 favorites]


On the topic of the language used in the reporting of these murders, McSweeney's has a handy explanatory article.
posted by booksarelame at 2:45 PM on September 21, 2016 [10 favorites]


So, I saw this tweet via a mefite

a major party nominee is calling for blanket policing of dubious constitutional integrity for entire neighborhoods of ppl of a certain race

I think its 11.55 am
posted by infini at 2:45 PM on September 21, 2016


On the topic of the language used in the reporting of these murders, McSweeney's has a handy explanatory article.

Wow. That was extremely well done; even knowing that it was relevant to the subject at hand, I still found the build up to the endpoint enthralling. Thanks for sharing that.
posted by lord_wolf at 2:58 PM on September 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


One concept I have considered is that ex-military should be barred from law enforcement work. Not because I do not respect what they have done for our country, but because the training that is so deeply impressed on those in the military is simply not compatible with civilian policing. I fear it lends itself toward a "shoot first and ask questions later" mentality that is clearly a problem.

From a tweet from back in July:
I was in Iraq & even in an actual theater of war,unless you were immediately fired on we had several steps to go through before kill shots. we had rules of engagement and escalation of force cards my command made us carry on us at all times with those regulations. even when a car possibly carrying explosives was barreling down on us, we were taught to exhaust several steps of warnings before killing: hand signals, flags, pop smoke/flares, warning shots to the sides, disabling shots THEN kill shots. so for the life of me, I can't figured out why on the streets in the United States of America, police officers go immediately to murder and people are just like "well, in the heat of the moment…"
posted by Lexica at 3:49 PM on September 21, 2016 [34 favorites]


.
posted by TrinsicWS at 3:53 PM on September 21, 2016


Lexica, yup. I have seen a comment like that made by military members many many times. And, GASP, there are consequences for not following procedure.
posted by futz at 3:53 PM on September 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


I would say, though, that the folks that have come out of the military recently are not necessarily long-time veterans with a lot of training. I mean, they have training but the military has been accepting folks into the Army that would have been rejected in decades past for mental health issues, other problems.

So, I kind of don't think that military service either tells us that someone is fit or unfit to be a police officer. It's just a part of their resume and some parts of that experience may be beneficial to the line of work and other parts less so or neutral.
posted by amanda at 5:53 PM on September 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


I was in Iraq & even in an actual theater of war,unless you were immediately fired on we had several steps to go through before kill shots.

The RoE are about the same. If someone is pointing a gun or you think the person is going for one, you can use deadly force.
posted by jpe at 6:48 PM on September 21, 2016


Tweetchain starting here:
Yes the #Tulsa officers' accounts were proven wrong by ALL available footage. But at a certain point, we are going to have to start talking about the fact that these people TRULY BELIEVE what they are claiming to have seen, at the time of their reportage. Their perception of reality is, again, that Black Bodies are inherently dangerous (http://www.erismag.com/blog/2016/7/14/damienw-police-brutality-post) & so, to them, the mere presence of a Black Body automatically constitutes a life threatening situation. This perception of reality is reinforced by the systems which, encircle, protect, exonerate, and enshrine those who maintain said perception, & so they will persist in this belief & behaviour until we do the work to dismantle these structures, and do so as systematically as the structures are maintained.
posted by Lexica at 8:55 PM on September 21, 2016 [9 favorites]


It's entirely legal under the UCMJ. Serving military personnel are required by general order to salute the flag and attend the national anthem in specific ways, and failure to do so is a violation of Article 92, disobeying a direct order. I doubt she'll get a dishonorable discharge for it, but she certainly could. This isn't a free speech issue in the military, who are commonly constrained in ways that civilians are not.

It's not just Article 92 for failing to obey regulations about the anthem. There are very strict rules regarding the sorts of political statements and protests you're allowed to make in uniform (TLDR: not allowed). If she's smart she'll get a lawyer and request court martial, but her career is quite probably toast because she's doing this publicly in uniform. I agree she's probably not going to get jail or a DD, but she'll be admin separated and be expected to pay back any bonuses she's recieved.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 9:14 PM on September 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


I mean, they have training but the military has been accepting folks into the Army that would have been rejected in decades past for mental health issues

This really isn't true today, and was only the case for a few years from say 2002-2007. There's no longer any active build up, and an economic crash does wonders for improving the recruitment pool of people wiling to sign up for 4 years minimum in exchange at 37k/yr. These days they're more likely to tell you your services are no longer required than hard sell the 17 year old about to drop out of high school.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:16 PM on September 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


So someone was shot at the protest in charlotte... and lots of people on my social media feed have all kinds of screenshots from people who were there saying it was the police.

Jesus fuck.
posted by emptythought at 10:34 PM on September 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


From emptythought's link:
In an interview on Wednesday, Mr. Crutcher’s father, the Rev. Joey Crutcher, said his son had marched in protest of earlier police killings and had thought about how to protect himself during interactions with police officers.

They had planned to go to a church event aimed at teaching people how behave around the police and avoid becoming another hashtag shared on social media by Black Lives Matter protesters.

“I never thought this would happen to my family,” Mr. Crutcher said, adding that he had counseled his son all his life about how to behave around the police.
If this could happen to someone like Terence Crutcher after a lifetime of awareness and preparation, there really is no way around it.

Somehow, in "post-racial" America, at a time when a black man is President of the United States, we've ended up in a situation where police across the country can and will murder black men, women and children with no provocation. Doesn't matter if you're innocent or guilty, standing in the street or running away from confrontation, if you're holding a gun or a toy or a book or nothing at all, if you're driving too fast or your car is stalled in traffic, standing or sitting in a car or lying splayed on the ground, hands up or hands down, begging for your life or trying to say that you can't breathe. None of it matters; the police can and will shoot you, and they are not at all interested in just stopping or arresting you. They are not shooting to warn or to disable, they are shooting to kill. And in practically every case so far, they've done this without significant repercussions. Certainly not the kind of repercussions that we'd associate with racially-motivated murder, which let's face it, is exactly what this is.

I am deeply ashamed that this is the country I live in.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 12:35 AM on September 22, 2016 [8 favorites]




Huffpo is reporting that that man is in grave condition, not dead (at this point).
posted by AlexiaSky at 5:48 AM on September 22, 2016


A friend of mine who was on the scene last night reports that he saw the protester shot in the side of head at close range by police. At the time the protesters nearby seemed to think it was a bullet because there was a lot of blood (my friend posted pictures of the blood - awful). My friend rushed over with some others to help the fallen protester and he reports that it was a rubber bullet, which severed an artery, causing all the bleeding. I don't know what the protester's current condition is.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 6:38 AM on September 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Back during the Occupy protests in Oakland, CA, protester Scott Olson was shot in the head with a beanbag round and suffered permanent brain damage (CN: photo in that link of bleeding man). He sued and Oakland settled for $4.5M; the officer who fired the round was never identified. But the officer who fired a teargas round directly into the group of people who were trying to help Olson as he was lying on the ground bleeding? He got fired! And then reinstated by an independent arbitrator. "“Roche is a phenomenal police officer, and he was scapegoated like all the other officers from the Occupy experience,” said Sgt. Barry Donelan, who heads the police union."

I don't expect any different from any investigation in the Charlotte situation.
posted by rtha at 7:10 AM on September 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


If only the US had some branch of the judiciary to enforce the law and arrest this gang of racist murderers that seems to be plaguing the country.
posted by dazed_one at 8:27 AM on September 22, 2016 [2 favorites]






"When there's a compelling reason." HOW ABOUT WHEN YOUR CITY IS RIOTING BECAUSE THEY DON'T TRUST YOU?

sorry about the shouting
posted by marxchivist at 9:06 AM on September 22, 2016 [12 favorites]


He said he supports transparency in the case, “but I never said full transparency.”

So....he supports translucency?
posted by kokaku at 9:12 AM on September 22, 2016 [16 favorites]


And on October 1st a new state law in NC kicks in that requires a court order to release police videos to the general public.
posted by marxchivist at 9:33 AM on September 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I think they're still stuck in the mindset they evolved during the long decades where they could simply get away with murder then stonewall and nothing would happen. Absent video most white people would never believe cops were just randomly killing black people.

I think the Putney is trying to go back to that, hoping he can just stonewall his way through things, that the protests will peter out and he can go back to business as usual (that is, the police as an unabashed tool of white supremacy and killing any black person they feel like with total impunity).

It's a combination of nostalgia and the very human urge to hide it when you or people in your tribe do something bad. They want, they yearn for, what MLK termed the negative peace which is the absence of tension and seem to loathe and fear the positive peace which is the presence of justice.

What they want is to simply suppress the protests. I delved into a couple of police forums and that was the universal sentiment there, with no dissent at all that I could see. The protests must be stopped, using maximum force to frighten the protesters back into silence and compliance.
posted by sotonohito at 9:39 AM on September 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


I'm sure this must have been mentioned in one of the tragically-innumerable threads during the last couple of years, but it recently occurred to me that even well before the Civil Rights Era the 1770 Boston Massacre, a pivotal event leading to the Revolutionary War, was also about law enforcement personnel shooting to death unarmed protesters.
posted by XMLicious at 9:43 AM on September 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


also about law enforcement personnel shooting to death unarmed protesters

...including a black man
posted by kokaku at 9:48 AM on September 22, 2016 [5 favorites]




I delved into a couple of police forums and that was the universal sentiment there

Your stomach is far stronger than mine and thank you for the report.
posted by bukvich at 10:18 AM on September 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


That Onion article doesn't quite get me to the tears that God angrily clairfies do not kill rule did back in 9/11 but it's closer than they've gotten me in those 15 years.
posted by phearlez at 10:44 AM on September 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Someone in my Facebook feed posted this which I found really striking for how many of them happened in the city where I live and I don't even know about. It's a sickly regular thing.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:44 AM on September 22, 2016


I'm trying to think of stuff to do other than vent here. I know a lot of people who are half decent human beings and have a sense of personal empathy, but whose culture + politics make them prone to just-world thinking and in some cases conservative authoritarianism, which in turn leads some of them to say things like "if this guy was shot, there was probably a reason" and other defenses that keep things like this happening. I don't know how many are persuadable at the margins, but hey, a lot of them are NeverTrump Republicans, so I think some are if that empathy can be activated and directed.

So I'm trying to think about how that can be done. Maybe a screening of Peace Officer? Maybe other documentaries. Maybe getting them to read relevant work by POC authors. I know this might be ridiculously naive because most people don't read in the first place and my guess is that a lot of people who'd read, say, Kiese Laymon are probably already appalled at Crutcher's death. But on the other hand, I feel like it's probably a better strategy for influence at the margins than screaming in all caps or memes on my FB wall.

Problem is, my own knowledge here is probably shallow. So... recommendations please. Empathy opening books, documentaries, POC perspective.

And I'm also interested if there's anyone who's studied successful strategies leading to change in policing. We have a pretty good idea of what repeated failure looks like and I'd like to know if anyone knows what success does.
posted by wildblueyonder at 11:47 AM on September 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Local news is reporting that Betty Shelby will be charged with manslaughter in the first degree.
posted by dislegomena at 1:45 PM on September 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


Good news regarding charges. I'm actually a bit surprised given that it took the feds stepping in to get TCSO's vice squad prosecuted. They were acquitted in the end despite rather damning evidence, so I'm not at all confident a conviction will be haf, even with video evidence. Okies will excuse almost any abuse of power so long as it's under color of law. We've come a long way since Woody Guthrie, and not in a good way.

That said, chances are probably better for justice in Tulsa than anywhere else in the state. I'd have more confidence in a civil trial, though. The chances of not getting at least one of "those" who can't believe LEOs can do anything wrong are very low.

On the gripping hand, I'm pretty sure at least one person was convicted when the private jail company was found to be running a literal fight club of inmates, so it does happen on rare occasion.
posted by wierdo at 1:57 PM on September 22, 2016




Man shot at protest has died: "I saw the man go down on the pavement," Knight said. "It was an ambush. The victim was shot while he stood between two ministers, and we believe he was shot by police. We would like to see surveillance video from the surrounding area that may have captured the shooting to determine who was responsible."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:23 PM on September 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


"Just give it a few more occurances; and a few more years. We'll be seeing a military grade mine resistant vehicle simply run somebody over."

You miss the point, talkin' demilitarize the police
They ain't running us over in Humvees
You can film em, maybe you can sue em
They ain't never gonna get what they got coming to em
-Sole and DJ Pain One, Fire the Police
posted by still bill at 3:04 PM on September 22, 2016




The charges indicate that officer Shelby ”reacted unreasonably by escalating the situation from a confrontation with Mr. Crutcher, who was not responding to verbal commands and was walking away from her with his hands held up, becoming emotionally involved to the point that she over reacted.“

I am grateful for charges...but do you think they would have used that phrasing (or indicted so quickly) if the officer had been a man?
posted by agregoli at 3:57 PM on September 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


(Maybe neither here nor there but the phrasing jumped out at me)
posted by agregoli at 3:57 PM on September 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I know what you mean, agregoli. As someone commented in another forum on the same information, "maybe misogyny will finally make it possible for charges to stick."
posted by bunderful at 3:58 PM on September 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


Meanwhile, in North Carolina Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Chief Kerr Putney said Thursday that video he has seen from the fatal shooting of a black man this week in University City indicates the officer was justified in his actions.

This afternoon a Fraternal Order of the Police spokesman who saw the video was"Oh the video is from one point of view, we couldn't see if whether or not he had a gun in the video, there will be a long careful investigation, lots of evidence, blah...blah." When the video shows some obviously heinous actions by the police they're all about making excuses that you can't rely solely on the video. Except when it exonerates the cops. Even if it ends up the shooting was justified, they're really not handling this well.
posted by marxchivist at 4:35 PM on September 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Yeah, I'm always gonna believe someone from the FOP/POA/PBA. /eyeroll
posted by rtha at 6:10 PM on September 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


I don't feel like that CNN article does much to explain why Charlotte and Tulsa reacted differently; I'm sure you can find churches responding in Charlotte.

I also, as often, am struck by how I'm supposed to see the violence of the protesters in a picture of a single woman facing a line of riot police amidst smoke, quite possibly from tear gas.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:34 PM on September 22, 2016


Yes, video is never important and can't be released because reasons, but the police can go on TV and talk about the video that only they have access to and say whatever they want about what it shows in order to get ahead of the story in the media and blatantly lie knowing that they'll never be reprimanded and that's totally OK.

What the fuck do we even have a justice department for, anyways?
posted by tocts at 6:35 PM on September 22, 2016 [6 favorites]


Well, this is weird. They are reporting that the helicopter pilot is Dave Shelby, the husband of Betty Shelby who shot Terence Crutcher. It's not clear if he or his observer is the one who said "big, bad dude".
posted by JackFlash at 9:23 PM on September 22, 2016


JackFlash, the original reporting a few days ago said that he was the pilot who was not the one who said that. He did say something about Mr. Crutcher following Betty's orders.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:44 AM on September 23, 2016


The "logic" behind the NC law banning the release of police video is staggering when you think about it.

Problem: some people are protesting because cops keep killing innocent black people.

Solution: hide the evidence so the police can better demonize those they kill and the protesters no longer have video to cite.

I get that for the authorities the problem isn't really that black men are being murdered by the police at a staggering rate. For those with power the problem is that the killings are producing protests, which in turn cause economic problems and threaten established power structures. So to them clearly the problem is the protests, not the murders.

But you'd think that even from the POV that the protests are the problem, the idea of getting rid of protests by getting rid of the **CAUSE** of the protests would make at least logical sense even if they don't have the empathy to want to solve the problem of police violence for its own sake.

I'm also stunned at the idea that anyone, in this day of leaks and omnipresent cell phone video, would think that simply keeping police video secret would somehow stifle the protests. Even if no one else was around to film the cops murdering someone, surely they'll realize that by keeping the video secret it feeds the narrative that all police involved killings are murder?

Under NC's new law there is no reason at all to ever, under any circumstances, assume that a police involved killing is anything other than straight up murder because a) we know that often this is the case, b) we know for a stone cold certain fact that the police often lie and fabricate evidence to back up their lies, and c) the police are now hiding everything from us.

Why would anyone in any position of authority think that greater police secrecy is going to defuse the situation? Why, given what we already know, would anyone now ever give the benefit of the doubt to the NC police if they're keeping the evidence secret?

I get that the authorities just want the protests to go away, I get that the authorities may even be hostile towards the concept of actual justice. What I don't get is how they can possibly think greater secrecy will achieve their goal of making protests go away.
posted by sotonohito at 5:59 AM on September 23, 2016 [11 favorites]




That BBC anchor's expression was basically mine.

I liked this article on why Charlotte is responding the way it is. I grew up in NC, but far from Charlotte, physically and psychologically. Charlotte (and Durham) occupies in the imagination of conservative, white North Carolina the same space that Chicago does in the national conservative, white imagination. It's the city that proves that "they" (Democrats, naturally, what did you think they meant?) can't run things and they're barely even really North Carolinians, anyway. I hate to imagine what they're thinking now.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:02 AM on September 23, 2016






MSNBC is talking right now, showing the video, and Joy Reid is tweeting, about how the police might have planted the gun (!).
posted by cashman at 11:02 AM on September 23, 2016


The black object seems to be a glove. msnbc showed stills of the glove/s in a cops hand and it appears to jive with where the black object was on the ground.
posted by futz at 11:10 AM on September 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Someone needs to stabilize that video. But that new object around 1:40-1:45 is weird.
posted by Mid at 11:12 AM on September 23, 2016


I just... can't imagine screaming that my husband has a brain injury, just took medication, and the police gunning him down anyway.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:13 AM on September 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


I just... can't imagine screaming that my husband has a brain injury, just took medication, and the police gunning him down anyway.

I know he was described as disabled early on, but I didn't know the details of it being TBI. She explained it to them and...nothing. Didn't matter. Fuck. I make a point of watching these videos, because I just don't know what else to do, and that was terrible. Even by the standards of videos of police executing unarmed people, that was awful.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:18 AM on September 23, 2016 [6 favorites]


I have reached the point where I take it as my default position that any time the police murder a black man any evidence they claim justifies the murder is planted. I'm willing to be convinced, on a case by case basis, that the evidence isn't planted, but I have now reached the point where I *start* from the position that they're planting any and all evidence that exonerates them.

I am a pasty skinned white boy, I have never in my entire life had a bad encounter with a police officer, and I am ashamed to say that despite being liberal it was not until I married a black woman that I realized my lack of bad encounters with the police was because I am a pasty skinned white boy, and not because the police are actually civil.

My son is black, and not a naturally submissive person. I fear every day for his life. Not because I fear he will be killed by a criminal, but because I fear he will be killed by the police.

He's barely ten, but almost as tall as me already, and white people tend to see black children as being older than they really are and expect them to behave older than they are, even if they aren't tall for their age. I've already had white people act shocked when they learned he was 10 and tell me they thought he was 14 or 15.

Someone, some day, will see him and call the cops simply because they fear the presence of a black boy. And I remember Tamir Rice, who was only two years older than my son, and who was murdered by police officers who are still on the job, still being police, and never charged with a crime.

And I am afraid.

I remember Trayvon Martin, stalked and hunted down by a vigilante who imagined himself as a cop. A coward who "stood his ground" and murdered a boy simply for being black and in a white neighborhood. I remember that they found him innocent and gave him back the gun he murdered Trayvon with like a trophy.

And I am afraid.

I remember John Crawford, who tried to buy a BB gun at Wal-Mart, when a racist saw him carrying it, maliciously called the police and lied about Crawford threatening people, and the police showed up and simply murdered him without saying a word. And I remember that those cops are still cops, that they never faced trial, that the racist who called the cops never faced any consequences. I remember that my son loves toy guns and sometimes at the store will bring me one and ask me to buy it.

And I am afraid.

There is no justice in America, and I am afraid.
posted by sotonohito at 11:19 AM on September 23, 2016 [31 favorites]


I am grateful for charges...but do you think they would have used that phrasing (or indicted so quickly) if the officer had been a man?

You have some pretty nasty bedfellows with this one, like for example, Julie Ioffe.

I mean, i'm a bit sympathetic to it but it's a point i've basically only seen, and non stop, from right wing twitter stars spamming it out incessantly. It gives me huge #notyourshield vibes with how it's been injected into the conversation i guess?
posted by emptythought at 11:51 AM on September 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


CHARLOTTE, N.C. - Tests revealed Keith Scott's fingerprints, DNA and blood were on a gun recovered at Tuesday’s officer-involved shooting scene, police sources told Channel 9 reporter Mark Becker.

I love those trusty"police sources"! Was there an actual gun found? Or is it just the blurry photo that people are citing as proof?
posted by futz at 11:51 AM on September 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


Given the protest situation, the fact that anonymous police "sources" are spreading rumors and not the police chief standing in front of a podium with a gun in an evidence bag seems suspicious to me.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:54 AM on September 23, 2016 [11 favorites]


But it doesn't matter, because now that the story is out there then the media can run with the ~both sides~, and it's a case closed to the people who wanted to believe that in the first place.
posted by emptythought at 11:54 AM on September 23, 2016 [4 favorites]



I have reached the point where I take it as my default position that any time the police murder a black man any evidence they claim justifies the murder is planted. I'm willing to be convinced, on a case by case basis, that the evidence isn't planted, but I have now reached the point where I *start* from the position that they're planting any and all evidence that exonerates them.


At this point I feel like this is a rational position to take.
posted by zutalors! at 11:54 AM on September 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


I have reached the point where I take it as my default position that any time the police murder a black man any evidence they claim justifies the murder is planted. I'm willing to be convinced, on a case by case basis, that the evidence isn't planted, but I have now reached the point where I *start* from the position that they're planting any and all evidence that exonerates them.

This seems like a perfectly standard position, at it jives entirely with "innocent until proven guilty" on the part of citizens Vs the justice system/prosecution? Like it's on the police to prove it's valid evidence in the first place.

I mean i already sort of said it, but i place the biggest blame here on the media for "convicting" people by running with bullshit stories to juice a 24 hour news cycle with "BREAKING UPDATE: GUN FOUND".

Should we be provided with updates on the investigation? Probably, but i'm not sure. Is presentation of newly found details almost always completely biased on the part of the police and media? Fuck to the yes.
posted by emptythought at 12:00 PM on September 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


So there is no gun that has been produced, just the picture correct?
posted by futz at 12:02 PM on September 23, 2016


I was a public defender for a little while and my experience convinced me that cops lie as a matter of course about everything. The number of things I heard in police reports and on witness stands that strained credibility was simply too much. The officer who had three people spontaneously admit that they were carrying concealed BB guns "for protection" in the course of six months? The officers who always smelled "burnt marijuana" and searched and found only fresh or vice versa? The parade of people who knew they illegal stuff in their car and somehow magically "consented" to searches and swore up and down that that never happened? It was pervasive.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:05 PM on September 23, 2016 [12 favorites]


So there is no gun that has been produced, just the picture correct?

The police have said since the beginning that they recovered a handgun.
posted by cashman at 12:05 PM on September 23, 2016


Police need to be unarmed, or not be able to be armed until years on the force.

This cannot continue.

Black lives matter.
posted by AlexiaSky at 12:06 PM on September 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


The police have said since the beginning that they recovered a handgun.

Police lie sometimes.
posted by 23skidoo at 12:13 PM on September 23, 2016


Police lie sometimes.

Oh I agree. I'm not saying they're telling the truth, just that that's what they claimed.
posted by cashman at 12:15 PM on September 23, 2016


I can't imagine that it's too hard to get your murder victim's DNA and fingerprints on a handgun.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:16 PM on September 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Even if, if, if, he had a gun.

1. North Carolina is an open carry state.
2. There's no evidence Mr. Scott pointed a gun at anyone.
3. There is evidence Mr. Scott had a traumatic brain injury.
4. There is evidence that Mr. Scott had just taken medication.

You do not shoot to kill someone who is disabled and just took their medicine.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:18 PM on September 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


I can't imagine that it's too hard to get your murder victim's DNA and fingerprints on a handgun.

To go one further, I imagine that most gun-owners guns' have their owner's DNA and fingerprints on them most of the time.
posted by 23skidoo at 12:21 PM on September 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


You have some pretty nasty bedfellows with this one, like for example, Julie Ioffe.

I mean, i'm a bit sympathetic to it but it's a point i've basically only seen, and non stop, from right wing twitter stars spamming it out incessantly. It gives me huge #notyourshield vibes with how it's been injected into the conversation i guess?
posted by emptythought


My response to that is, "So the fuck what?" I'm honestly not seeing why you felt the need to bring that up. Sexism is sexism, who cares who points it out?
posted by agregoli at 12:22 PM on September 23, 2016


Because a cop finally gets prosecuted, and "hmm this sounds sexist to me" coming almost entirely from white people feels really really trite? I dunno, a bunch of POC i regularly talk to online and off are rolling their eyes really damn hard at it.

I mean if that's what it takes, then yea, that's sad and that sucks... But it feels kinda gross, and exactly what people are talking about when they bring up white feminism as a context that it's being injected into the conversation seemingly everywhere right the hell now.

I would say "Maybe talk about it if she ever seen the inside of a jail cell", but i know i'd just get walloped with "oh yea, of course that conversation needs to happen later".
posted by emptythought at 12:26 PM on September 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


Because a cop finally gets prosecuted, and "hmm this sounds sexist to me" coming almost entirely from white people feels really really trite?

I don't think it was because the cop was prosecuted. It was because they used the specific language that she "overreacted."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:27 PM on September 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Uhhh yeah I was obviously talking about the language used in the statement quoted. Which wouldn't have been used, I bet, and I've never seen it used, when the incident involves a man.
posted by agregoli at 12:29 PM on September 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Why is Julia Ioffe nasty?
posted by zutalors! at 12:29 PM on September 23, 2016


CHARLOTTE, N.C. - Tests revealed Keith Scott's fingerprints, DNA and blood were on a gun recovered at Tuesday’s officer-involved shooting scene, police sources told Channel 9 reporter Mark Becker.

I love those trusty"police sources"! Was there an actual gun found? Or is it just the blurry photo that people are citing as proof?
From an article just up on the Guardian:
According to NBC, police have previously said that a still photo taken from a video shows a pistol near Scott’s feet.

Neither that photo nor the family’s video are perfectly clear, but they seem to contradict each other. In the family’s video, which includes footage from before, during, and after the shooting, there is no gun visible.
I think it's a throw-down.
posted by jamjam at 12:29 PM on September 23, 2016 [5 favorites]


She became emotional! And overreacted! ( I resent being lumped in with tone-deaf non-POC righties because this is something ALL women noticed, I assure you).
posted by agregoli at 12:31 PM on September 23, 2016 [7 favorites]


I was a public defender for a little while and my experience convinced me that cops lie as a matter of course about everything

Testilying.
posted by phearlez at 12:59 PM on September 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


.
posted by MoTLD at 1:08 PM on September 23, 2016


Yeah my first two thoughts were:

1) Thank god they actually charged the cop for once. Now it's going to be up to the jury.

2) "became too emotionally involved" ugh. When a woman shoots an unarmed man it because she was too emotional.
posted by LizBoBiz at 1:11 PM on September 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Bulgaroktonos: "I was a public defender for a little while and my experience convinced me that cops lie as a matter of course about everything. The number of things I heard in police reports and on witness stands that strained credibility was simply too much. "

I've only been in court a half a dozen times (only once for me, arguing a speeding ticket). Twice I've seen cops lie under oath when reading from their notes about the timing of a sequence of events. In one case we know they lied because they said suspect Foo was at such and such a place when they were interacting with a server/other users on a server (at the time (late 80's early 90's) not something anyone did away from a hard line). And I've examined the server logs confirming it.

And it seems like every time the cops have a chance to construct a narrative before a video comes to light the narrative departs from video in substantial ways. Even when the videos show the cops acting properly and professionally they can't seem to help themselves exaggerating the negative aspects of the suspect.
posted by Mitheral at 3:52 PM on September 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


At this point when I hear "police recovered a gun from the scene" I tend to reflexively supply "right where they dropped it". It's such strange wording, anyway. If nothing else, it would cover finding a gun in the glove compartment after you mowed the guy down five feet from his car. There might be legal or other reasons for such wishy-washy language, but it does the opposite of inspiring confidence in the police narrative.
posted by uosuaq at 4:17 PM on September 23, 2016 [14 favorites]


Chief Kerr Putney in Charlotte moments ago, on CNN: "There was a crime he committed that caused the encounter, and a gun that was produced that exacerbated the incident." He says that Scott was in possession of marijuana, and that the videos the police are releasing do not definitively show a gun in Scott's hand pointed at a police officer, that (per interviews and other elements of the investigation) officers could see the gun while Scott was still in the vehicle, that he isn't stating Scott was in possession of the gun unlawfully, but that policy was followed by all officers involved.
posted by XMLicious at 1:56 PM on September 24, 2016


a gun that was produced that exacerbated the incident

"police officers with guns don't kill people, guns produced by police officers exacerbate incidents"
posted by NMcCoy at 2:45 PM on September 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Charlotte Police are releasing the video, likely in the next hour apparently.
posted by cashman at 2:56 PM on September 24, 2016


Just for the record, according to news sites it looks like the exact quote from the ~4:30PM press conference was "There was a crime that he had committed that caused the encounter, and then the gun exacerbated that situation." I made it sound a bit more passive voice than it actually was. (Though still obviously, as NMcCoy points out, the inanimate object did the exacerbating.)

In any case though, Putney went on and on about how committed he was to not trying this case in public, then in public definitively declared that Scott committed a crime.
posted by XMLicious at 3:25 PM on September 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


"There was a crime that he had committed that caused the encounter, and then the gun exacerbated that situation."

I'll bet that crime was something minor like littering/tossing a cigarette.
posted by futz at 3:45 PM on September 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


"Contempt of cop", maybe.
posted by tobascodagama at 3:47 PM on September 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Why is Julia Ioffe nasty?

Yeah I'm waiting for this explanation as well. First time I've heard her name mentioned in this way as like, some obviously heinous Breitbart-esque figure.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 3:53 PM on September 24, 2016


Charlotte Observer -Body cam video released in police shooting death

I had the sound down. But that one (and that's just one bodycam video) doesn't really show a thing that I could see.
posted by cashman at 3:54 PM on September 24, 2016


The crime Putney was claiming is possession of marijuana. Reporters asked about the gun, and he said that he was not claiming that possession of the gun was unlawful.
posted by XMLicious at 3:58 PM on September 24, 2016


It makes me sick to my stomach that they gunned down an unarmed man and their concern is getting handcuffs. I can't figure out what to even do at this point.
posted by Bacon Bit at 4:01 PM on September 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


> The crime Putney was claiming is possession of marijuana.

That does not make them sound better or more reasonable.
posted by rtha at 4:04 PM on September 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Reporter on BBC World News just said something about an empty ankle holster being visible around Scott's ankle, while they showed what appeared to be a still evidence photo of the holster.
posted by XMLicious at 4:06 PM on September 24, 2016


Here's both videos (the dashcam video appears second - I had the sound down). Seems to me like he had a gun in his left hand (was he left handed?).

But anyway, case closed. There's no way those cops will see a millisecond in jail.
posted by cashman at 4:10 PM on September 24, 2016


Wait, so it's a crime to sit in your car reading with a gun in an open carry state? And you should just expect to be shot? Oh but he might've smoked some pot. So yeah, kill him for sure.
(I still don't believe he had a gun in his hand)
posted by Bacon Bit at 4:13 PM on September 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


I don't get why the police chief didn't want to release those videos. I mean I get the impulse to protect, and to craft the narrative before people see the information, but police have such wide latitude why would he think any of those officers would ever step foot in a jail cell?

I don't get it.

RIP Mr. Keith Scott.
posted by cashman at 4:17 PM on September 24, 2016


What is that cop saying in the video? Along the lines of "[something] get my bag...[something] equipment"? I'm still trying to keep an open mind, but didn't police recover some equipment from the scene?
posted by uosuaq at 4:26 PM on September 24, 2016


Police statement (via):
...

Two plain clothes officers were sitting inside of their unmarked police vehicle preparing to serve an arrest warrant in the parking lot of The Village at College Downs, when a white SUV pulled in and parked beside of them.

The officers observed the driver, later identified as Mr. Keith Lamont Scott, rolling what they believed to be a marijuana “blunt.” Officers did not consider Mr. Scott’s drug activity to be a priority at the time and they resumed the warrant operation. A short time later, Officer Vinson observed Mr. Scott hold a gun up.

Because of that, the officers had probable cause to arrest him for the drug violation and to further investigate Mr. Scott being in possession of the gun.

Due to the combination of illegal drugs and the gun Mr. Scott had in his possession, officers decided to take enforcement action for public safety concerns. Officers departed the immediate area to outfit themselves with marked duty vests and equipment that would clearly identify them as police officers.

...
posted by XMLicious at 5:18 PM on September 24, 2016


After six-hour standoff, police arrest armed man at Civic Center
After nearly six hours of negotiations, police have arrested a man with a gun at San Francisco’s Civic Center.

Police had blocked off traffic around the area and evacuated nearby buildings as negotiators try to talk down a man with a semiautomatic handgun who was threatening to harm people and commit suicide.

“He may want to end his life. He may want to take out other people. And we don’t want that to happen,” said San Francisco Police Department spokesman Carlos Manfredi. “As long as we have time to talk to him, we have hope.”

Manfredi said the man, who is white and in his 40s, called the police on himself around 12:00 p.m. Saturday. He told officers that he was thinking of hurting himself and possibly other people too.
I am glad they did not shoot him! (I can't believe I have to say that.) Very glad! But why does it seem like a white man with a gun who makes active threats gets a six-hour standoff and [any number] of black men who may or may not also be armed and make threats inspire such instant terror and threat that they must be shot dead within a few seconds?

---

What the Data Really Says About Police and Racial Bias - Eighteen academic studies, legal rulings, and media investigations shed light on the issue roiling America.

posted by rtha at 6:51 PM on September 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


I simply don't believe the police account. Here is my best guess:
Keith Scott pulls up to the front of the apartment lot to pick his kid up from the bus stop. He rolls a (regular tobacco) cigarette because University City is the fucking suburbs and that seems a lot more likely than that he was fucking smoking marijuana at the fucking schoolbus stop, especially given his TBI. He picks up his book. He notices the (plain clothes) cops staring at him. He gets out of the car to figure out what's going on and the book falls to the ground. He bends over and picks it up, and the cops decide that he is going for an ankle holster. He has no idea about that and gets back in the car. Then the scene that his wife filmed unfolds. He is confused, both because of his TBI and because cops are fucking confusing, and doesn't do what they are saying fast enough and they shoot him. They then plant a gun and/or marijuana on him.

I went to high school 5 minutes from there. I knew people who lived in those apartments. My heart just keeps breaking over and over and over.
posted by hydropsyche at 7:25 PM on September 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


"...When he said he looks like a bad dude, he quickly followed it up with “He’s got to be on something!” He was addressing this dude’s bizarre behavior.
He did not call him a nigger.
He did not put black in front of bad dude.
He did not reference color.
I am very aware of the way that phrase can be used in reference to a group of people, but it makes sense to me and many other black officers. As officers, we have seen these incidents many times. It doesn’t take long for us to determine that something is wrong with a person and that a certain situation will not end in a typical manner..."


Police Detective Puts the Tulsa Incident In Perspective
posted by republican at 7:43 PM on September 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


In this case what was wrong with the situation was that the cops murdered a guy whose car broke down and the situation did not end in a typical manner because the cops murdered a guy whose car broke down. The cop has been charged with manslaughter. Are you really here to defend what happened that night?
posted by hydropsyche at 7:44 PM on September 24, 2016 [12 favorites]


FYI, msnbc did some still frames of the video and scott's left hand looked empty (contrary to what I posted above, watching the video a couple times).
posted by cashman at 8:38 PM on September 24, 2016


He did not reference color.

Funny how when the color involved is blue, no matter how bizarre and lethal the behavior was, it never turns out that the perpetrator is a bad dude, particularly in the view of these people who supposedly have the finely-tuned spider sense. It's almost as if color can have an influence on which ending is the typical manner things end in, whether it's referenced out loud or not.
posted by XMLicious at 9:43 PM on September 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


And yet, despite her "explanation" of how totally innocent and perfectly fine and dandy it was, the cops kill black men at a rate 3.4 times higher than they kill white men.

But racism is clearly not a factor, it must be that black people are just more dangerous and need killing a lot more.
posted by sotonohito at 5:09 AM on September 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


hydropsyche To the authoritarian mind the authorities may never be wrong, or even seriously questioned. Any inconvenient facts must be swept aside, any consideration for basic humanity or sympathy with the bereaved must be stamped out, the only thing that matters is that the authorities be held up as heroes who have never made a mistake.

Obviously that attitude transcends the bounds of race and shared minority experience, as the article by Chelsea Whitaker illustrates. Her experience as a black woman is irrelevant to her burning passionate desire to paint the authorities as bold heroes who never do anything wrong.

It also illustrates the basic cop mindset, she says (in all caps yet) "A PERSON DOES NOT HAVE TO BE FOUND WITH A WEAPON IN THEIR POSSESSION BEFORE AN OFFICER INVOLVED SHOOTING IS JUSTIFIED." and follows up with: "Simply stating that an officer shot an unarmed man does not mean that the officer should be charged with murder."

She also says that she points her gun "all the time" at people who approach her.

A clearer example of the pants shitting cowardice and petty authoritarianism of our police force would be difficult to find.

"He did not reference color." Yeah, because he didn't have to. No one ever describes white people the way the dispatcher described Crutcher.
posted by sotonohito at 6:35 AM on September 25, 2016 [5 favorites]


MONDAY, DECEMBER 10, 2012:
Superhumanity functions as subhumanity; it allows the nonhuman to be eliminated while releasing the perceiver from having to answer for seeing someone as nonhuman
. Like last spring's "bath salts" hysteria itself, the phrase "superhuman strength" reflects police discomfort with mental illness--or even just "irrationality"--on the one hand, and with the unaccountable phenomenon of resisting arrest on the other. People who are on drugs or mentally ill are more often "resisters" by default, since they are less likely to understand what's happening. Laudisio-Curdi had taken LSD, stolen cookies from a store, and was not wearing a shirt when he ran away from police. The man in Georgia was "half naked" (i.e., not wearing a shirt) and delirious, and was an African-American waving a golf club around on a golf course. We don't know what Bartholomew Williams was doing or saying, but it has been called "irrational behavior." The two seriously violent incidents above (in SC and Maryland) involved actual armed criminals resisting arrest. In their cases, superhumanity is invoked to explain their choice not to give themselves up, making it sound less like an ability and more like an involuntary condition. (Police officers themselves never show superhuman strength, even when they're agitated by adrenalin in struggle; they show fortitude and tenacity--at least when they don't cut matters short by shooting.) From the perspective of the police, resisting arrest is necessarily irrational: they perceive irrational people as resisters, even if that isn't their intention, and resisters as definitionally crazed.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:52 AM on September 25, 2016 [8 favorites]


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