Too interesting to not attempt a landing there
September 27, 2016 9:30 AM Subscribe
Europa, the moon of Jupiter made famous by the movie 2010: The Year We Make Contact, appears to have plumes of water at its south pole. This will make it easier to figure out what's in the ocean underneath all that ice.
Currently NASA has tentative plans to launch a spacecraft to Europa in 2022. The ESA will be sending a separate probe to the region sometime in the late 2020s.
Currently NASA has tentative plans to launch a spacecraft to Europa in 2022. The ESA will be sending a separate probe to the region sometime in the late 2020s.
A little bit inside baseball, maybe, but one of the rivalries in the planetary exploration community is the Enceladus vs Europa camps. NASA probably won't send two spacecraft missions to icy moons, so which should the destination be? A lot of funding streams rode on the answer, even though the battle lines between competing teams were blurry at best.
In 2011, there was this flurry about ice plumes on Enceladus: Evidence mounts for liquid water on Enceladus. Widely seen (or at least it looked like that to a non-specialist like me) as an argument that we could do sample analysis of the contents of the ocean under Enceladus without running any risk of planetary contamination - just swoop the spacecraft through an ice plume, analyze, beam the results back, do it again, eventually divert into Saturn. Whereas with Europa, we'd have to land and drill, so there's all this contamination worry.
The recent result about plumes of water ("suggesting that its subsurface ocean could be probed without having to drill through miles of ice") is a direct rebuttal to that idea. We could, in principle, study the oceans without landing on Europa. Of course, I don't know if mission concepts can be rewritten at this late stage if the mission is on track to launch in 6 years...
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:24 AM on September 27, 2016 [10 favorites]
In 2011, there was this flurry about ice plumes on Enceladus: Evidence mounts for liquid water on Enceladus. Widely seen (or at least it looked like that to a non-specialist like me) as an argument that we could do sample analysis of the contents of the ocean under Enceladus without running any risk of planetary contamination - just swoop the spacecraft through an ice plume, analyze, beam the results back, do it again, eventually divert into Saturn. Whereas with Europa, we'd have to land and drill, so there's all this contamination worry.
The recent result about plumes of water ("suggesting that its subsurface ocean could be probed without having to drill through miles of ice") is a direct rebuttal to that idea. We could, in principle, study the oceans without landing on Europa. Of course, I don't know if mission concepts can be rewritten at this late stage if the mission is on track to launch in 6 years...
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:24 AM on September 27, 2016 [10 favorites]
rivalries in the planetary exploration community
idk why it never really occurred to me that this would be A Thing but now that i know it is i am delighted by it.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:07 PM on September 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
idk why it never really occurred to me that this would be A Thing but now that i know it is i am delighted by it.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:07 PM on September 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
I think someone in previous thread mentioned the Europa and Enceladus teams were essentially down the hall from each other. Which makes me wonder about interoffice pranks.
Ideally, we'd send spacecraft to both, but that gets expensive. I wonder if the ion engine used in the Dawn spacecraft could used to visits Jupiter and Saturn with one spacecraft. Probably not, their gravity is much more powerful than asteroids, but anyone know for sure?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:13 PM on September 27, 2016
Ideally, we'd send spacecraft to both, but that gets expensive. I wonder if the ion engine used in the Dawn spacecraft could used to visits Jupiter and Saturn with one spacecraft. Probably not, their gravity is much more powerful than asteroids, but anyone know for sure?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:13 PM on September 27, 2016
> I wonder if the ion engine used in the Dawn spacecraft could used to visits Jupiter and Saturn with one spacecraft. Probably not, their gravity is much more powerful than asteroids
I don't know for sure, but if you're captured by a giant planet gravity well, you're not leaving without serious propellant. Something like a flyby works, but if you're going into orbit, you're staying.
> the Europa and Enceladus teams were essentially down the hall from each other
I think at least some key people were on both teams.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:05 PM on September 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't know for sure, but if you're captured by a giant planet gravity well, you're not leaving without serious propellant. Something like a flyby works, but if you're going into orbit, you're staying.
> the Europa and Enceladus teams were essentially down the hall from each other
I think at least some key people were on both teams.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:05 PM on September 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
If there is life in the sub-surface oceans of Europa, I feel really bad for anything that gets pulled into the Great Whirlpools of the World-Ceiling and shot onto the frozen unfeeling vacuum of Europa's surface. One glorious glimpse of the God Planet before their life winks out.
posted by Stonestock Relentless at 1:33 PM on September 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Stonestock Relentless at 1:33 PM on September 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
Europa Report is another SF movie about Europa that's pretty good.
posted by straight at 3:00 PM on September 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by straight at 3:00 PM on September 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
I was about to mention Europa Report but straight just beat me to it. I like that movie -- there are very few "hard SF" movies out there and this was done quite well.
posted by linux at 3:56 PM on September 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by linux at 3:56 PM on September 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
you're not leaving without serious propellant.
So on the way there, be sure to top off your giant carbon fibre fuel tanks at Elon's filling station on Mars.
posted by sfenders at 5:06 PM on September 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
So on the way there, be sure to top off your giant carbon fibre fuel tanks at Elon's filling station on Mars.
posted by sfenders at 5:06 PM on September 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Mars will just be dusty tech-bro skeletons after their Soylent stocks run out.
posted by Artw at 5:12 PM on September 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 5:12 PM on September 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I wonder if the ion engine used in the Dawn spacecraft could used to visits Jupiter and Saturn with one spacecraft.
Yes, it was called JIMO, and it was a very ambitious project, indeed. Its mission included visiting Europa, Callisto, and Ganymede, and also happened to have a nuclear reactor somewhat similar to those in submarines.
There's an ESA project in the early design stage called JUICE, which is much smaller and more conventional. ESA, however, has a habit of delaying/slowing development of missions that's even worse than NASA, so a 2022 launch is probably unrealistic.
posted by tclark at 5:27 PM on September 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yes, it was called JIMO, and it was a very ambitious project, indeed. Its mission included visiting Europa, Callisto, and Ganymede, and also happened to have a nuclear reactor somewhat similar to those in submarines.
There's an ESA project in the early design stage called JUICE, which is much smaller and more conventional. ESA, however, has a habit of delaying/slowing development of missions that's even worse than NASA, so a 2022 launch is probably unrealistic.
posted by tclark at 5:27 PM on September 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think someone in previous thread mentioned the Europa and Enceladus teams were essentially down the hall from each other. Which makes me wonder about interoffice pranks.
"Hey, Li, check out what we found in the Europa sample!"
"Is it Dickbutt again?"
posted by No-sword at 5:39 PM on September 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Hey, Li, check out what we found in the Europa sample!"
"Is it Dickbutt again?"
posted by No-sword at 5:39 PM on September 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Addendum:
"No, we think it might have something to do with Eukelade's!"
"Eukelade's what?"
"Eukeladeez nuts!"
posted by No-sword at 5:41 PM on September 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
"No, we think it might have something to do with Eukelade's!"
"Eukelade's what?"
"Eukeladeez nuts!"
posted by No-sword at 5:41 PM on September 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Pluuuuuuumes!
We're very excited in the McGee house; we saw they called for this press conference on Friday and specified that it was NOT ALIENS and we were like "IT'S WATER." We're hitting the planetarium tomorrow during a teacher's institute day and hoping they talk about Europa!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:47 PM on September 27, 2016
We're very excited in the McGee house; we saw they called for this press conference on Friday and specified that it was NOT ALIENS and we were like "IT'S WATER." We're hitting the planetarium tomorrow during a teacher's institute day and hoping they talk about Europa!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:47 PM on September 27, 2016
Perhaps Europa is an elderly, spherical space whale.
posted by dowcrag at 2:02 AM on September 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by dowcrag at 2:02 AM on September 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
[2022]
*Nasa probe arrives at Europa, hovers a couple of meters above planet's surface collecting ice samples*
HEY I SPECIFICALLY SAID ATTEMPT NO LANDINGS
"This isn't landing, I'm hovering"
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEANT THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A LANDING ATTEMPT
"No, look, technically it's a really slow fly by. It's only a landing if I touch the-"
BUT I MEANT LIKE... OH FOR FUCKS SAKE
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:19 AM on September 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
*Nasa probe arrives at Europa, hovers a couple of meters above planet's surface collecting ice samples*
HEY I SPECIFICALLY SAID ATTEMPT NO LANDINGS
"This isn't landing, I'm hovering"
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEANT THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A LANDING ATTEMPT
"No, look, technically it's a really slow fly by. It's only a landing if I touch the-"
BUT I MEANT LIKE... OH FOR FUCKS SAKE
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:19 AM on September 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
Blazing white LED arrays displaying slowly morphing patterns designed by semiologists to convey the universal messages IM•NOT•TOUCHING•YOU and STOP•SAMPLING•YOURSELF.
posted by No-sword at 3:32 AM on September 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by No-sword at 3:32 AM on September 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
Am I mad, mal-attendant, misinformed or what? Isn't water esp. liquid water elsewhere in our (OURS!) solar system A MASSIVE DEAL? Like effectively Bigger Than Life (bearing in mind whatever other life we find in the solar system is likely to be/originate with a comet a Brachiosaurus sneezed on or else a comet which sneezed on us first). The potential for human/Earth-derived life to exist on another reachable body surely trumps the miniscule hope that we might one day get snarky tweets every few years from Alpha Centurai, yes?
posted by comealongpole at 6:30 PM on September 28, 2016
posted by comealongpole at 6:30 PM on September 28, 2016
I am pleased to report that when we visited the planetarium today for Baby's First Planetarium Visit, they did indeed talk about the plumes on Europa and show us pictures and talk about whether they were geysers or mid-ocean ridges or what.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:45 PM on September 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:45 PM on September 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
"Isn't water esp. liquid water elsewhere in our (OURS!) solar system A MASSIVE DEAL? "
There's definitely water on Earth's moon (in dark-side craters), Europa (Jupiter), Enceladus (Saturn), and Mimas (S); probably on Mars and Ganymede (J); possibly on Ceres (planetoid), Callisto (J), Dione (S), Tethys (S), Rhea (S), Iapetus (S), Triton (Neptune), Titania (Uranus), Oberon (U), Umbriel (U), Pluto, Charon, Eris, Haumea, and a bunch of comets in the Kuiper Belt.
Now it's only liquid on some of those -- it's ice on a lot of them -- but frozen water is interesting and important for interplanetary exploration with an eye towards settlement, and frozen water NOW might mean liquid water in the past which might mean life. Current liquid water is thought to exist on at least Mars, Enceladus, Europa, Ceres, and Ganymede, although sometimes underground (with all surface water as ice).
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:56 PM on September 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
There's definitely water on Earth's moon (in dark-side craters), Europa (Jupiter), Enceladus (Saturn), and Mimas (S); probably on Mars and Ganymede (J); possibly on Ceres (planetoid), Callisto (J), Dione (S), Tethys (S), Rhea (S), Iapetus (S), Triton (Neptune), Titania (Uranus), Oberon (U), Umbriel (U), Pluto, Charon, Eris, Haumea, and a bunch of comets in the Kuiper Belt.
Now it's only liquid on some of those -- it's ice on a lot of them -- but frozen water is interesting and important for interplanetary exploration with an eye towards settlement, and frozen water NOW might mean liquid water in the past which might mean life. Current liquid water is thought to exist on at least Mars, Enceladus, Europa, Ceres, and Ganymede, although sometimes underground (with all surface water as ice).
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:56 PM on September 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
And to address the second part, microbes or similar on Europa (not brought there by unsterilized Nasa equipment, etc.) would be a huge deal and incredibly exciting. But actual produced-by-an-intelligence signals with meaning to extract and mull over would be a much bigger deal for me at least, even if they came from so far away that there's no hope of meaningful communication. A totally alien microbe is one thing—a totally alien message is on a whole nother level.
posted by No-sword at 3:27 AM on September 29, 2016
posted by No-sword at 3:27 AM on September 29, 2016
(Octopus people on Europa with a language produced by modulating bubble squirts and a rich culture of storytelling about what it's like to have different numbers of arms, of course, would be ideal, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.)
posted by No-sword at 3:29 AM on September 29, 2016
posted by No-sword at 3:29 AM on September 29, 2016
> There's definitely water on Earth's moon (in dark-side craters)
Ooooh, I get to put on my pedant hat and point out that there's no such thing as a dark side of our Moon, only a far side, which is lit by the Sun during a new moon, for example. :) But yes, there's definitely water ice on the Moon, especially in deeper craters where sunlight never reaches the bottom.
To add to EMcG's list, there's even water ice on Mercury, at the bottom of deep polar craters, and massive reserves of ice in the comets and asteroids.
But liquid water is rarer, and long-lived persistent liquid water rarer yet. And if you want liquid water, stable over a billion years, as well as plentiful energy from the Sun? You're down to Earth and maybe some epochs of Mars.
If you can make do without (abundant) solar energy, you could have weird and wonderful lifeforms on Europa; and why stop at that? You could have weird non-water-based lifeforms on Titan.
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:21 AM on September 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ooooh, I get to put on my pedant hat and point out that there's no such thing as a dark side of our Moon, only a far side, which is lit by the Sun during a new moon, for example. :) But yes, there's definitely water ice on the Moon, especially in deeper craters where sunlight never reaches the bottom.
To add to EMcG's list, there's even water ice on Mercury, at the bottom of deep polar craters, and massive reserves of ice in the comets and asteroids.
But liquid water is rarer, and long-lived persistent liquid water rarer yet. And if you want liquid water, stable over a billion years, as well as plentiful energy from the Sun? You're down to Earth and maybe some epochs of Mars.
If you can make do without (abundant) solar energy, you could have weird and wonderful lifeforms on Europa; and why stop at that? You could have weird non-water-based lifeforms on Titan.
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:21 AM on September 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Can anyone explain, or direct to explanation of, a: How we're so certain that the substance is H2O, in ANY of the aforementioned locations and b: how could liquid water exist in space? What is the heat source? Is a thick layer of ice sufficient to maintain a liquid core at that orbit from our sun? IANAA obvs
posted by bird internet at 2:30 PM on September 29, 2016
posted by bird internet at 2:30 PM on September 29, 2016
Absorption spectroscopy, oh!
posted by bird internet at 2:46 PM on September 29, 2016
posted by bird internet at 2:46 PM on September 29, 2016
> What is the heat source?
On icy moons, it's tidal heating.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:31 PM on September 29, 2016
On icy moons, it's tidal heating.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:31 PM on September 29, 2016
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