Stop Flipping Forks
September 29, 2016 2:25 PM Subscribe
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- frimble
It’s a nice metaphor, but the real story here seems to be that the author got irritated that someone else wanted to flip the forks, since she is also acknowledging that flipped forks are not inherently bad things - just that they didn't matter in this circumstance.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:42 PM on September 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 2:42 PM on September 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't have to care whether the junior high age boys care about whether the forks are facing the same way, I care whether they are.
The question is, why does the author care so much about what I care about? What skin off his nose is it if I take a few minutes to align the forks (or pens, or paper in the supply cabinet, or...)?
posted by Lexica at 2:46 PM on September 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
The question is, why does the author care so much about what I care about? What skin off his nose is it if I take a few minutes to align the forks (or pens, or paper in the supply cabinet, or...)?
posted by Lexica at 2:46 PM on September 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
She seems to be missing the point. Her volunteers weren't flipping the forks for the benefit of the diners, they were doing it for themselves. As Zalzidrax said, it gave them something to do. Maybe the bigger lesson here is learning to accept that sometimes one's actions aren't meant for the benefit of other people, and being okay with that.
posted by Kevin Street at 2:55 PM on September 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Kevin Street at 2:55 PM on September 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
The example is a bit distracting, because fork-flipping seems like one of those subclinical compulsions that people do for their own psychological reasons ("your brain screams" at the "chaos"), not to serve someone else's needs. It is not (or not necessarily) an expenditure of emotional energy. It might be more emotionally taxing not to do. Yelling at people engaging in such behaviors seems misguided to me.
But there is this broader point that you should try to focus your efforts in places where they will be appreciated, and don't do things for other people if those people are not going to care at all.
posted by grobstein at 3:06 PM on September 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
But there is this broader point that you should try to focus your efforts in places where they will be appreciated, and don't do things for other people if those people are not going to care at all.
posted by grobstein at 3:06 PM on September 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
Before reading the article, I thought it was going to be a screed against wasting time learning inane juggling or dexterity skills instead of putting effort into developing a more useful talent.
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:20 PM on September 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:20 PM on September 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also, "Flipping forks!" sounds like a rejected The Tick battle cry.
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:20 PM on September 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:20 PM on September 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
The metaphor, as written, leaves the fork flipping cost-free, so it doesn't make sense.
If she had tossed in a line about "we never managed to get the table numbers set up appropriately, but darn weren't those forks straight!" or the like, then yeah people only have so much time/energy/emotionjuice to spend and in this case, flipping forks wasn't worth it.
posted by sparklemotion at 3:29 PM on September 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
If she had tossed in a line about "we never managed to get the table numbers set up appropriately, but darn weren't those forks straight!" or the like, then yeah people only have so much time/energy/emotionjuice to spend and in this case, flipping forks wasn't worth it.
posted by sparklemotion at 3:29 PM on September 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think the author is trying to say something like stop doing emotional labour that is not wanted and that will never be appreciated.
The example she gives is not the greatest because a tangle of forks would irritate me and flipping them is easy and satisfying.
posted by betweenthebars at 3:35 PM on September 29, 2016 [7 favorites]
The example she gives is not the greatest because a tangle of forks would irritate me and flipping them is easy and satisfying.
posted by betweenthebars at 3:35 PM on September 29, 2016 [7 favorites]
For the menu she describes, it sounds like even having forks at all is a waste of time.
posted by aubilenon at 3:36 PM on September 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by aubilenon at 3:36 PM on September 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
Another reason the "fork" analogy isn't the best is because it doesn't account for a potential hygiene issue: if all the implements are arranged in the same direction, it's easier to grab one without putting one's fingers all over the parts that will go into other people's mouths. That's a valid issue even if the diners in question aren't aware of/don't care about it.
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:39 PM on September 29, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:39 PM on September 29, 2016 [13 favorites]
Why did they flip the forks but not the spoons?
posted by thewumpusisdead at 3:41 PM on September 29, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by thewumpusisdead at 3:41 PM on September 29, 2016 [11 favorites]
Agreed that it's likely not for the boys and may help the emotional energy of the fork flipper. I thought this was going to be about how to stop myslef caring about flipped forks, metaphorical or real. It doesn't address that if I am flipping them for me and don't care if the middle school boys even notice.
do you believe a single middle school boy cared about the direction of forks?
Yes absolutely I do. Wanting the forks lined up is not crazy or rare. This is a huge assumption similar to knowing why people flipped the forks or what the cost and benefit was to them.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 3:41 PM on September 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
do you believe a single middle school boy cared about the direction of forks?
Yes absolutely I do. Wanting the forks lined up is not crazy or rare. This is a huge assumption similar to knowing why people flipped the forks or what the cost and benefit was to them.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 3:41 PM on September 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
/would totally flip the forks also.
posted by Artw at 3:54 PM on September 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 3:54 PM on September 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
"She seems to be missing the point. Her volunteers weren't flipping the forks for the benefit of the diners, they were doing it for themselves."^This^ (These? Those?).
"It is not (or not necessarily) an expenditure of emotional energy. It might be more emotionally taxing not to do."
It's certainly something that'd bug me (if I ever let my forks get that disorganised!), and I'd flip the forks my my own benefit, not anyone else's.
I think the author would benefit from reading their own article. To answer her own four points:
- Audience is key: Yes, and the audience I'd do it for is me.
- The problem is not your effort: Sometimes when I say "it's no problem", it really is "no problem".
- Identify those who deserve your best emotional efforts: Already have. Me.
- Identify those who do not deserve your best emotional efforts: I long ago realised that group includes "people who think I'm doing it wrong"
posted by Pinback at 4:02 PM on September 29, 2016 [9 favorites]
... why would you punish someone who wants to help you to help someone who wants to punish you?weirdest trolley problem ever
(yes I know "help you to help" should be "help you, to help" but it becomes funnier if we read it as written)
posted by idiopath at 4:08 PM on September 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
The author put emotional energy into writing this article and I suspect it is because he never expected Metafilter to be its audience.
posted by Obscure Reference at 4:42 PM on September 29, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Obscure Reference at 4:42 PM on September 29, 2016 [11 favorites]
The example she gives is not the greatest
That's what it comes down to. She has a good point under there somewhere, but for at least three reasons, the forks aren't it. Sounds more like a control problem of hers than one of her volunteers. Also, she might have too many volunteers per shift if they have that much extra time, or needs to come up with something that will meet their emotional needs to be helpful.
I don't really like the gendered implication that middle school boys won't care (girls would?), or that middle school boys won't care (high school boys would?) or, in general, that it isn't worth giving kids nice things and taking care of their environment. I spent a long time in organizations that served students, and in my experience, every bit of grace you can bring into them has a subtle but powerful effect. Every time you treat them like animals that just need a hunk of meat - or a pizza - thrown into their cages, they will meet your expectations.
posted by Miko at 4:44 PM on September 29, 2016 [12 favorites]
That's what it comes down to. She has a good point under there somewhere, but for at least three reasons, the forks aren't it. Sounds more like a control problem of hers than one of her volunteers. Also, she might have too many volunteers per shift if they have that much extra time, or needs to come up with something that will meet their emotional needs to be helpful.
I don't really like the gendered implication that middle school boys won't care (girls would?), or that middle school boys won't care (high school boys would?) or, in general, that it isn't worth giving kids nice things and taking care of their environment. I spent a long time in organizations that served students, and in my experience, every bit of grace you can bring into them has a subtle but powerful effect. Every time you treat them like animals that just need a hunk of meat - or a pizza - thrown into their cages, they will meet your expectations.
posted by Miko at 4:44 PM on September 29, 2016 [12 favorites]
And yeah I don't want people's fingers pawing all over the fork tines if they don't have to be.
posted by Miko at 4:45 PM on September 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Miko at 4:45 PM on September 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
I feel like I was a fork flipper until I had a kid. And now I'm more like, "Yes, eat the cheese off the floor. As long as it's not a leaf or a bug, that's fine."
posted by erinfern at 5:37 PM on September 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by erinfern at 5:37 PM on September 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
Metafilter: For at least three reasons, the forks aren't it.
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:01 PM on September 29, 2016
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:01 PM on September 29, 2016
As a teacher currently grading papers*, this is very relevant to me.
*I was grading until I opened Metafilter, that is
posted by Salvor Hardin at 6:07 PM on September 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
*I was grading until I opened Metafilter, that is
posted by Salvor Hardin at 6:07 PM on September 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
** begins assigning grades randomly, rapidly scribbles illegible fake comments **
posted by Salvor Hardin at 6:09 PM on September 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Salvor Hardin at 6:09 PM on September 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
Before reading the article, I thought it was going to tie in too-neatly with spoon theory and the importance of managing one's resources.
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:12 PM on September 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:12 PM on September 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
Why did the forks matter so much? Was I really the only one to notice that the spoons were awry as well? Who fixes forks while leaving the other ware so disorganized?
posted by kinnakeet at 6:49 PM on September 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by kinnakeet at 6:49 PM on September 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I was once a middle-school child and I would have liked my cutlery to face correctly. I would have been 100% aware of all the grubby fingers touching the tines of the forks that were facing the wrong way, plus, children appreciate order and cleanliness- it shows care and respect for them.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 7:27 PM on September 29, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by pseudostrabismus at 7:27 PM on September 29, 2016 [7 favorites]
You only have to reach in and shove a fork tine under your cuticle ONCE before you believe in flipping the forks.
posted by BlueHorse at 9:17 PM on September 29, 2016
posted by BlueHorse at 9:17 PM on September 29, 2016
I liked the piece. Thank you, stoneweaver, for sharing it.
I think there is value in weighing the importance of various tasks. I think trying to do that by sizing up your audience could be a little faulty, though, since it's sometimes hard to know exactly who appreciates what, and how much.
Probably a more satisfactory metric would be, "does this serve my sense of what's most important?" And I think the author would approve of that take-away. The real thrust of the article seems to be about taking a moment to prioritize what really matters, and budgeting time and effort accordingly.
posted by delight at 9:18 PM on September 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think there is value in weighing the importance of various tasks. I think trying to do that by sizing up your audience could be a little faulty, though, since it's sometimes hard to know exactly who appreciates what, and how much.
Probably a more satisfactory metric would be, "does this serve my sense of what's most important?" And I think the author would approve of that take-away. The real thrust of the article seems to be about taking a moment to prioritize what really matters, and budgeting time and effort accordingly.
posted by delight at 9:18 PM on September 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
This article isn't that long and she explains her point pretty clearly. I don't understand the desire to nitpick this death, just because why? She said something you agree with but you didn't say it first? You feel superior for thinking of an anecdotal detail she could have added like you're her editor? It's written by a woman? I mean jeez when someone is in charge they're allowed to tell the workers where and where not to focus their energy and she had a perfectly legit reason to do so.
I mean this is point #2. The second one!
2. The problem is not your effort.
There is nothing fundamentally wrong with flipping forks. The effort can be a beautiful offering of selflessness, but don’t forget that emotional energy is finite.
posted by bleep at 9:19 PM on September 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
I mean this is point #2. The second one!
2. The problem is not your effort.
There is nothing fundamentally wrong with flipping forks. The effort can be a beautiful offering of selflessness, but don’t forget that emotional energy is finite.
posted by bleep at 9:19 PM on September 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
Have none of you ever looked out over the sea of shit to do but you have that one volunteer cheerfully dithering about flipping forks/aligning papers/straightening pencils and going ON AND ON AND ON about how they "just have to!" do it but there are dozens of other things that could have been done that would have been helpful, like alphabetising the name list or tidying up or sweeping or mopping. And would have been more appreciated by the audience as well.
None of you?
posted by geek anachronism at 9:37 PM on September 29, 2016 [14 favorites]
None of you?
posted by geek anachronism at 9:37 PM on September 29, 2016 [14 favorites]
This article isn't that long and she explains her point pretty clearly. I don't understand the desire to nitpick this death, just because why?
Personality flaws.
posted by Artw at 9:42 PM on September 29, 2016
Personality flaws.
posted by Artw at 9:42 PM on September 29, 2016
This article isn't that long and she explains her point pretty clearly. I don't understand the desire to nitpick this death, just because why? She said something you agree with but you didn't say it first?
I don't actually agree with what she's saying, fork metaphor or not.
3. Identify those who deserve your best emotional efforts.Outside of people close to me who I want to give extra effort to and people going out of their way to make me not want to give them effort, I'd like to try to give everybody roughly the same effort. Who am I to say that someone is appreciating my efforts "properly"? If I don't owe the audience my spectacular efforts, then why switch to a different effort they will appreciate? That seems to be a very different point. The effort is probably greater finding out and doing what they will enjoy or appreciate.
There are those who deserve flipped forks. Folks who will notice your efforts and appreciate them properly, but we often burn out giving emotional energy to those who won’t appreciate us and deplete energy for those who will. I recently said to a friend, why would you punish someone who wants to help you to help someone who wants to punish you? That’s the sentiment here as well.
4. Identify those who do not deserve your best emotional efforts.
There is a very good chance you have said of someone, “I give and give and nothing ever satisfies him/her.” Perhaps…and I’m just spitballing here…you don’t owe that audience your spectacular efforts.
(It’s fine to choose another effort. My middle school boys didn’t notice forks, but when I invented a game called Blender Wars…well, that was a different story.)
I mean jeez when someone is in charge they're allowed to tell the workers where and where not to focus their energy and she had a perfectly legit reason to do so.
I agree with you here but the piece didn't seem to be about how to get your volunteers to do a better job or focus on what is important. It seemed to be advice on how to take this lesson int your daily life.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 9:54 PM on September 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
"People flip emotional forks..." It's not a good or clear metaphor I'm afraid and the chosen real analog is also lacking in enough detail to be of much use from where I'm sitting.
Order can be a value even if it's not noticed as such by an audience. Seeking to create a more emotionally orderly presentation can also be advantageous even if it isn't noted directly by those you are involved with. In such instances we may not be aware of the value of something small seeming since we are projecting alternatives based on our impressions. If we feel something is a waste of time for us, or that it wouldn't matter to us, then we posit it shouldn't matter to anyone even if we ourselves aren't entirely accurate in our self assessment. Something like flipping forks may seem so "obviously" unimportant that we just assume it is, but many small unimportant details add up. Chaotic environments, whether physical or emotional, are not subject to precise measure, we each will feel them differently and each will likely assign blame to different components should the measure be found to fall short.
Complex interactions or visual environments are not as clearly definable as the author seems to be asserting, where all things have unambiguous evaluative weight that we can measure. A dear friend of mine used to straighten any object put on one of his table so it aligned with the edges neatly. For fun once, I moved a magazine so it was slightly askew, when my friend came in the room he adjusted it automatically so it was aligned again. I mentioned it to him and he didn't even notice he had done that, it was just automatic. For another friend I used to purposefully unplug my vcr and plug it back in so the timer would blink before he visited since he could not stand being in a room without adjusting it to the right time, while loudly complaining about me messing with him. People are not uniform, things that may seem insignificant to us may not be to someone else and sometimes things bother us without our even being aware of the cause or that they in fat do until it is pointed out to us. We can generally recognize greater and lesser order when they are directly compared, but in the abstract without direct comparison we may not notice a preference for one over the other.
And that is ignoring the perfectly good reasons others have mentioned for straightening forks, which I also agree with. If there is something more pressing that one needs to do, then certainly detail work, emotional or otherwise, should take a back seat, but absent that, it may be less about how the audience may react than about how you feel about the audience. Straightening forks for one group and not another could be saying something about your own values that you aren't fully considering, sterling silver or no. If the amount of effort one is putting into an emotional situation is equivalent to the amount of physical effort one might put into flipping forks, then I'm not convinced not giving that minimal effort when dealing with certain groups isn't potentially as big a problem and may even lead to greater waste of energy or emotional resources in the long run than the minimal energy you would have expended in creating a little more order.
Even if none of that is a factor, I still don't find the essay compelling enough to use as any kind of maxim for conducting one's emotional or physical affairs.
posted by gusottertrout at 11:20 PM on September 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
Order can be a value even if it's not noticed as such by an audience. Seeking to create a more emotionally orderly presentation can also be advantageous even if it isn't noted directly by those you are involved with. In such instances we may not be aware of the value of something small seeming since we are projecting alternatives based on our impressions. If we feel something is a waste of time for us, or that it wouldn't matter to us, then we posit it shouldn't matter to anyone even if we ourselves aren't entirely accurate in our self assessment. Something like flipping forks may seem so "obviously" unimportant that we just assume it is, but many small unimportant details add up. Chaotic environments, whether physical or emotional, are not subject to precise measure, we each will feel them differently and each will likely assign blame to different components should the measure be found to fall short.
Complex interactions or visual environments are not as clearly definable as the author seems to be asserting, where all things have unambiguous evaluative weight that we can measure. A dear friend of mine used to straighten any object put on one of his table so it aligned with the edges neatly. For fun once, I moved a magazine so it was slightly askew, when my friend came in the room he adjusted it automatically so it was aligned again. I mentioned it to him and he didn't even notice he had done that, it was just automatic. For another friend I used to purposefully unplug my vcr and plug it back in so the timer would blink before he visited since he could not stand being in a room without adjusting it to the right time, while loudly complaining about me messing with him. People are not uniform, things that may seem insignificant to us may not be to someone else and sometimes things bother us without our even being aware of the cause or that they in fat do until it is pointed out to us. We can generally recognize greater and lesser order when they are directly compared, but in the abstract without direct comparison we may not notice a preference for one over the other.
And that is ignoring the perfectly good reasons others have mentioned for straightening forks, which I also agree with. If there is something more pressing that one needs to do, then certainly detail work, emotional or otherwise, should take a back seat, but absent that, it may be less about how the audience may react than about how you feel about the audience. Straightening forks for one group and not another could be saying something about your own values that you aren't fully considering, sterling silver or no. If the amount of effort one is putting into an emotional situation is equivalent to the amount of physical effort one might put into flipping forks, then I'm not convinced not giving that minimal effort when dealing with certain groups isn't potentially as big a problem and may even lead to greater waste of energy or emotional resources in the long run than the minimal energy you would have expended in creating a little more order.
Even if none of that is a factor, I still don't find the essay compelling enough to use as any kind of maxim for conducting one's emotional or physical affairs.
posted by gusottertrout at 11:20 PM on September 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
I definitely know people who put a lot of time and energy into perfecting things for their own standards, maybe forgetting that their audience won't necessarily care about or even notice those little tweaks. They sometimes end up irritated or hurt that their efforts weren't noticed or appreciated. Taking an extra minute to flip some forks is one thing, but what if it was driving to 3 additional stores to find red forks that matched the cups and plates? The end result looks better to you, but no one else will notice or care unless you tell them how much effort went into procuring those red forks, at which point they'll probably say something like "you shouldn't have."
There's also a piece around feeling comfortable with people possibly noticing that you didn't expend 100% of your energy on a task you've done for them. Someone may feel genuinely insulted or ripped off that you didn't present them with a neatly aligned cutlery basket. Is that going to compel you to spend time straightening it out every week, or are you comfortable saying "yeah, I just dumped the cutlery into the basket, but that doesn't mean I care about you any less. In fact, it freed up time for me to spend with you playing Blender Wars!"
(To those suggesting that aligned forks are the more hygienic serving option, dream on! It just takes one kid who didn't wash their hands to dig around for the best fork and you've got a basket full of contamination. Lots of people grab forks by the tines rather than the handles, too.)
posted by mantecol at 4:43 AM on September 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
There's also a piece around feeling comfortable with people possibly noticing that you didn't expend 100% of your energy on a task you've done for them. Someone may feel genuinely insulted or ripped off that you didn't present them with a neatly aligned cutlery basket. Is that going to compel you to spend time straightening it out every week, or are you comfortable saying "yeah, I just dumped the cutlery into the basket, but that doesn't mean I care about you any less. In fact, it freed up time for me to spend with you playing Blender Wars!"
(To those suggesting that aligned forks are the more hygienic serving option, dream on! It just takes one kid who didn't wash their hands to dig around for the best fork and you've got a basket full of contamination. Lots of people grab forks by the tines rather than the handles, too.)
posted by mantecol at 4:43 AM on September 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
Another bit of nitpicking: the author states that we have "a limited amount of emotional energy."
Perhaps, but I choose not to limit myself by holding this belief.
I agree that it a mistake to go around "helping" others willy-nilly, especially when people are not actually being helped. This was the author's central point, and one it is hard to disagree with. Many systems of psychological thought have a name for the kind of person whose primary compulsion is fixing others.
But still, this is a problem of relating correctly--and generously--to others, not a problem of having a limited reservoir of emotional energy and "wasting" it on "middle-school boys." Love given is never love wasted. (Sound like an aphorism. Probably is. Maybe even a cliche. Still, it's something worth trying.)
posted by kozad at 5:09 AM on September 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
Perhaps, but I choose not to limit myself by holding this belief.
I agree that it a mistake to go around "helping" others willy-nilly, especially when people are not actually being helped. This was the author's central point, and one it is hard to disagree with. Many systems of psychological thought have a name for the kind of person whose primary compulsion is fixing others.
But still, this is a problem of relating correctly--and generously--to others, not a problem of having a limited reservoir of emotional energy and "wasting" it on "middle-school boys." Love given is never love wasted. (Sound like an aphorism. Probably is. Maybe even a cliche. Still, it's something worth trying.)
posted by kozad at 5:09 AM on September 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
I thought it was funny and I agreed. Yes, there is usually one of them who wants his forks flipped. I appoint him fork-flipper while I'm dealing with the kid who is trying to fight everyone else or the one who is having a meltdown. If I'm setting up dinner for 40 of them, any other assistant had better be doing something other than flipping forks or I will send said assistant to go buy more paper napkins in the next town just to get him or her out of my hair. There's nothing more irritating than having volunteer adult help (usually parents) obsess over making things look good. The kids don't much care about that.
We used to take a trip with 70 sixth grade boys to hike a mountain and then stay overnight in a tourist camp. "Was it catered?" asked a father who came to pick up his son the next day. I grinned and laughed. Yeah, it was catered. By the teachers on the trip, and by the guy who went to Costco for the bulk packages of food. By keeping the kids out of the kitchen and handing them a paper plate with pasta on it when it was done, and if you forgot to get a fork you had to come back and get it yourself.
I agree that love given to middle school boys is never wasted, but rearranging forks is not love and should not be mistaken for that. That was what we ladies were told when the boys came back from the war and wanted their jobs back.
posted by Peach at 5:25 AM on September 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
We used to take a trip with 70 sixth grade boys to hike a mountain and then stay overnight in a tourist camp. "Was it catered?" asked a father who came to pick up his son the next day. I grinned and laughed. Yeah, it was catered. By the teachers on the trip, and by the guy who went to Costco for the bulk packages of food. By keeping the kids out of the kitchen and handing them a paper plate with pasta on it when it was done, and if you forgot to get a fork you had to come back and get it yourself.
I agree that love given to middle school boys is never wasted, but rearranging forks is not love and should not be mistaken for that. That was what we ladies were told when the boys came back from the war and wanted their jobs back.
posted by Peach at 5:25 AM on September 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't have enough spare emotional energy to respond to the post, but I am curious about Blender Wars.
posted by MtDewd at 6:25 AM on September 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by MtDewd at 6:25 AM on September 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
> Have none of you ever looked out over the sea of shit to do but you have that one volunteer cheerfully dithering about flipping forks/aligning papers/straightening pencils and going ON AND ON AND ON about how they "just have to!" do it but there are dozens of other things that could have been done that would have been helpful, like alphabetising the name list or tidying up or sweeping or mopping. And would have been more appreciated by the audience as well.
Absolutely. But none of this is referenced in this article as a concern. The emotional labor of fork-flipping was not quantified and the assumption that it was being done for the benefit of the diners is, as pointed out upthread, incorrect. Instead, I'm reading a personal screed against people who take a few minutes to make something look satisfyingly orderly, in accordance with a habit that they undoubtedly practice for their own silverware drawers at home. That's a weird thing to jump all over.
Look, I'm one of those rare people who absolutely DOES NOT CARE what direction the bills in the cash drawer are facing. Yes, even when I'm in a job with a lot of cash-handling. (I'm a deranged heathen, I KNOW.) The justifications that people give for the absolutely necessity of this practice make me shruggo, personally. But I don't get all irate at people who feel a strong need for the money to be orderly or think they're stupid for caring.
The emotional labor required to deal with someone flipping out over fork-flipping is probably more draining than the actual fork-flipping.
posted by desuetude at 6:55 AM on September 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
Absolutely. But none of this is referenced in this article as a concern. The emotional labor of fork-flipping was not quantified and the assumption that it was being done for the benefit of the diners is, as pointed out upthread, incorrect. Instead, I'm reading a personal screed against people who take a few minutes to make something look satisfyingly orderly, in accordance with a habit that they undoubtedly practice for their own silverware drawers at home. That's a weird thing to jump all over.
Look, I'm one of those rare people who absolutely DOES NOT CARE what direction the bills in the cash drawer are facing. Yes, even when I'm in a job with a lot of cash-handling. (I'm a deranged heathen, I KNOW.) The justifications that people give for the absolutely necessity of this practice make me shruggo, personally. But I don't get all irate at people who feel a strong need for the money to be orderly or think they're stupid for caring.
The emotional labor required to deal with someone flipping out over fork-flipping is probably more draining than the actual fork-flipping.
posted by desuetude at 6:55 AM on September 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
This article isn't that long and she explains her point pretty clearly. I don't understand the desire to nitpick this death, just because why? She said something you agree with but you didn't say it first? You feel superior for thinking of an anecdotal detail she could have added like you're her editor?
If she explained her point clearly, there wouldn't be anything to nitpick.
It's written by a woman?
I be curious to know which of the comments on this post you consider to be a gendered critique (for or against).
I mean jeez when someone is in charge they're allowed to tell the workers where and where not to focus their energy and she had a perfectly legit reason to do so.
This is the problem. As she says, she applies the analogy to time management as well, and I betcha it maybe even works as a time management fable (because then, if she's better a talking about time management than she is about emotional well being, she'd at least be acknowledging that opportunity costs are a thing). But as it's written, she completely ignores the fact that sometimes people spend emotional energy on things for their own reasons. Which rubs salt into the wound of the fact that she's kind of insulting to people who would prefer to see forks straight, regardless of the end user.
Also, yelling at volunteers is shitty.
posted by sparklemotion at 7:17 AM on September 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
If she explained her point clearly, there wouldn't be anything to nitpick.
It's written by a woman?
I be curious to know which of the comments on this post you consider to be a gendered critique (for or against).
I mean jeez when someone is in charge they're allowed to tell the workers where and where not to focus their energy and she had a perfectly legit reason to do so.
This is the problem. As she says, she applies the analogy to time management as well, and I betcha it maybe even works as a time management fable (because then, if she's better a talking about time management than she is about emotional well being, she'd at least be acknowledging that opportunity costs are a thing). But as it's written, she completely ignores the fact that sometimes people spend emotional energy on things for their own reasons. Which rubs salt into the wound of the fact that she's kind of insulting to people who would prefer to see forks straight, regardless of the end user.
Also, yelling at volunteers is shitty.
posted by sparklemotion at 7:17 AM on September 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
The author put emotional energy into writing this article and I suspect it is because he never expected Metafilter to be its audience.
Yep, people are focusing on the literal aspects of a metaphor. Kids pawing up forks is not the main point here, it's wasting your time on people who don't care or don't appreciate you.
For me the great point was about expending energy on people for whom your efforts will never be enough. God that rings true. Because yeah, there will always be middle schoolers who just want to eat pizza and don't care, but what about all those people who guilt you to death that you should do more for them? What about all those people who take you for granted? For me that was a good point, because it's easy to overextend to people who expect it from you and complain when you don't do enough for them because they are self-centered and don't recognize how much you do do for them. It's when overextending yourself becomes a habit for yourself and an expectation (and even a demand) from others; then you've gotten yourself in a real trap that takes effort to get out of.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 2:34 PM on September 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yep, people are focusing on the literal aspects of a metaphor. Kids pawing up forks is not the main point here, it's wasting your time on people who don't care or don't appreciate you.
For me the great point was about expending energy on people for whom your efforts will never be enough. God that rings true. Because yeah, there will always be middle schoolers who just want to eat pizza and don't care, but what about all those people who guilt you to death that you should do more for them? What about all those people who take you for granted? For me that was a good point, because it's easy to overextend to people who expect it from you and complain when you don't do enough for them because they are self-centered and don't recognize how much you do do for them. It's when overextending yourself becomes a habit for yourself and an expectation (and even a demand) from others; then you've gotten yourself in a real trap that takes effort to get out of.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 2:34 PM on September 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
You guys haven't had someone who aggressively wanted to "help" you by doing something that benefited them and not you?
This article isn't that long and she explains her point pretty clearly. I don't understand the desire to nitpick this death, just because why?
Because Metafilter has the unerring ability to overthink a drawer of forks.
posted by MsMolly at 5:34 PM on September 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
This article isn't that long and she explains her point pretty clearly. I don't understand the desire to nitpick this death, just because why?
Because Metafilter has the unerring ability to overthink a drawer of forks.
posted by MsMolly at 5:34 PM on September 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
As usual, I am reminded of a time . . . when (I was assisting in kindergarten) a parent wanted to give a talk to the students about fine art. She gave them a slide show of paintings (!) while they sat (!) and watched (!), and then offered them tiny little cups of carefully prepared pistachio (!) ice cream on a tray (!!!) instead of handing them out or calling kids up one by one. The head teacher and I intervened rapidly, subtly, and kindly before things managed to go straight to hell. That episode still gives me shivers.
posted by Peach at 5:55 PM on September 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Peach at 5:55 PM on September 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
it's wasting your time on people who don't care or don't appreciate you.
Trying to figure out a way to point out the recursiveness.
posted by Miko at 7:21 PM on September 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trying to figure out a way to point out the recursiveness.
posted by Miko at 7:21 PM on September 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
You guys haven't had someone who aggressively wanted to "help" you by doing something that benefited them and not you?
Oh yes. People who aggressively help to make themselves feel better, not because you or anyone asked them to help. It's basically control-freakism, which to me feels like a dominance move. It's a way to say "I'm more competent and able than you. You are weak and must rely on me and you don't even know it".
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 9:19 PM on September 30, 2016
Oh yes. People who aggressively help to make themselves feel better, not because you or anyone asked them to help. It's basically control-freakism, which to me feels like a dominance move. It's a way to say "I'm more competent and able than you. You are weak and must rely on me and you don't even know it".
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 9:19 PM on September 30, 2016
Another bit of nitpicking: the author states that we have "a limited amount of emotional energy."
Perhaps, but I choose not to limit myself by holding this belief.
I'm guessing that you're male. I'm guessing that before checking your profile.
We had a whole huge thread, a while back, about the amount of emotional energy women are expected to provide, not only free but "because it's their nature," while many men believe that it can just be ignored if it gets to be bothersome.
Noticing that the damn forks are not flipped, and that to line them all up would need to be assigned to someone, is traditionally women's work. Many men are perfectly willing to flip forks or do other menial "helpful"tasks - as long as someone else has the job of noticing what needs to get done, deciding how much time to allocate toward it, and arranging space and other resources so that the job can get done.
And that energy is not limitless, for any of us. I have, potentially, unlimited ability to love. I do not have unlimited ability to be calm or cheerful after checking the status of several dozen small tasks that the kitchen and household may need, and certainly not after listening to my boss tell me how I'm "so great at" tasks that make my stomach churn so he's going to give me more of them, followed by the need to check expiration dates on dairy products before making dinner.
I don't love my family any less after an annoying workday, but I'm certainly not smiling at them in the evening. My good temper is reserved for the clients whom I have to schedule for interviews; family often gets the sullen, snarling ELF because if I reverse that, family gets a smiling, cheerful ELF and the joys of living in a van down by the river.
If flipping the forks gives the volunteers a sense of accomplishment and they are not getting in anyone's way and there are not other tasks that need those hands and eyes, then yes, they should be permitted to flip all the forks they want. If, however, volunteer energy and time is limited and tasks available are less limited, flipping the forks is not, in this case, a good use of those resources.
(At home, my silverware drawer has three large-ish sections, forks-spoons-flat knives; things are mostly placed in handle-toward-opening, but large and small are mixed together and very small forks and spoons can wind up sideways. I don't care. Any family member is free to organize the forks and spoons to their heart's content... but I am not agreeing to keep arranging things according to their pattern of choice.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:19 PM on September 30, 2016 [5 favorites]
Perhaps, but I choose not to limit myself by holding this belief.
I'm guessing that you're male. I'm guessing that before checking your profile.
We had a whole huge thread, a while back, about the amount of emotional energy women are expected to provide, not only free but "because it's their nature," while many men believe that it can just be ignored if it gets to be bothersome.
Noticing that the damn forks are not flipped, and that to line them all up would need to be assigned to someone, is traditionally women's work. Many men are perfectly willing to flip forks or do other menial "helpful"tasks - as long as someone else has the job of noticing what needs to get done, deciding how much time to allocate toward it, and arranging space and other resources so that the job can get done.
And that energy is not limitless, for any of us. I have, potentially, unlimited ability to love. I do not have unlimited ability to be calm or cheerful after checking the status of several dozen small tasks that the kitchen and household may need, and certainly not after listening to my boss tell me how I'm "so great at" tasks that make my stomach churn so he's going to give me more of them, followed by the need to check expiration dates on dairy products before making dinner.
I don't love my family any less after an annoying workday, but I'm certainly not smiling at them in the evening. My good temper is reserved for the clients whom I have to schedule for interviews; family often gets the sullen, snarling ELF because if I reverse that, family gets a smiling, cheerful ELF and the joys of living in a van down by the river.
If flipping the forks gives the volunteers a sense of accomplishment and they are not getting in anyone's way and there are not other tasks that need those hands and eyes, then yes, they should be permitted to flip all the forks they want. If, however, volunteer energy and time is limited and tasks available are less limited, flipping the forks is not, in this case, a good use of those resources.
(At home, my silverware drawer has three large-ish sections, forks-spoons-flat knives; things are mostly placed in handle-toward-opening, but large and small are mixed together and very small forks and spoons can wind up sideways. I don't care. Any family member is free to organize the forks and spoons to their heart's content... but I am not agreeing to keep arranging things according to their pattern of choice.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:19 PM on September 30, 2016 [5 favorites]
Not only were the spoons not flipped, but the knives don't seem to be either. And the forks were flipped the wrong way. Maybe your assistants are just messing with you? And I think it bears repeating, why do you need any of this for eating pizza?
posted by Margalo Epps at 8:09 AM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Margalo Epps at 8:09 AM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
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