Tonight's Mystery has been cancelled.
October 7, 2016 5:19 AM Subscribe
Starlee Kine's popular podcast, Mystery Show, has been mysteriously absent from the netwaves. She's finally gone on record that Gimlet Media fired her six months ago. Gimlet issued a terse statement that the show was unsustainable, but will the new season of StartUp turn into a Starlee-starring soap opera? And will Gimlet fans side with the show's creator or with the company?
Was that really a "terse statement" from Gimlet? It began with a paragraph of praise for Kine.
posted by CMcG at 5:32 AM on October 7, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by CMcG at 5:32 AM on October 7, 2016 [16 favorites]
I am glad that it seems like she is going to keep the show. It was always crazy-ambitious, and I could see it not being financially tenable to support Starlee following dead ends week after week.
posted by sparklemotion at 5:32 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by sparklemotion at 5:32 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
She's supposed to be doing a live Mystery Show in Toronto November 20. Really hope that goes ahead, although I'm sure there have been discussions between her and the Hot Docs Podcast Festival's organizers since April. Fingers crossed!
Mystery Show is/was a treasure but I get how a small outlet would find it unsustainable, it seemed to involve a lot of travel and expense. If she wasn't making clear progress as she hints at in her statement I get why the people funding it would be nervous, regardless of the quality and accolades.
posted by yellowbinder at 5:36 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Mystery Show is/was a treasure but I get how a small outlet would find it unsustainable, it seemed to involve a lot of travel and expense. If she wasn't making clear progress as she hints at in her statement I get why the people funding it would be nervous, regardless of the quality and accolades.
posted by yellowbinder at 5:36 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well, terse for a company famous for airing its internal workings very publicly. Speaking of which, the first episode of StartUp that dropped last night doesn't seem to cover this particular issue, except for obliquely referencing that if things didn't turn around they'd have to make tough choices and maybe make layoffs.
posted by rikschell at 5:41 AM on October 7, 2016
posted by rikschell at 5:41 AM on October 7, 2016
This feels like one of those awful situations when you're friends with a couple and they have a nasty breakup and you don't want to take sides but have a feeling you're going to get dragged into it. I like you both and want no part of your drama, Gimlet and Starlee Kine!
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:48 AM on October 7, 2016 [23 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:48 AM on October 7, 2016 [23 favorites]
I was really disappointed when news broke about this. Alex Blumberg posted an audio statement to Sound Cloud earlier and I don't think it helped the situation much. I'm mostly annoyed that they waited this long to make the announcement without saying why they waited (and the timing with the new season of Startup is suspect). Also, I find it pretty shitty for a company to fire someone without them knowing that things aren't going well ahead of time and without coming up with some sort of plan to improve the situation. It sounds like Mystery Show was doing pretty well and that Starlee was surprised by the layoff.
posted by noneuclidean at 5:54 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by noneuclidean at 5:54 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Following Gimlet through the Startup podcast has been fascinating. I keep waiting for the moment that someone takes Alex Blumberg aside and says, "Look... you know podcasts don't make any money, right?" Maybe that'll happen this season.
posted by selfnoise at 5:56 AM on October 7, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by selfnoise at 5:56 AM on October 7, 2016 [8 favorites]
I'm also wondering why, given all the praise for Starlee in Gimlet's statement, that they didn't cancel the show and have her work on a more sustainable show. Drop the thing that isn't working, but keep the strong talent.
posted by noneuclidean at 5:57 AM on October 7, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by noneuclidean at 5:57 AM on October 7, 2016 [7 favorites]
Well, boo. And as noneuclidean points out, why dump a person who's so publicly a great and seemingly key part of your enterprise?
posted by Etrigan at 5:59 AM on October 7, 2016
posted by Etrigan at 5:59 AM on October 7, 2016
It sounds to me like they want their podcasts to come out pretty frequently, and her format isn't really conducive to that. It's really costly, in terms of both time and resources, to make any particular episode. Honestly, they probably should have realized that at the outset.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:00 AM on October 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:00 AM on October 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
Her name has been all over the credits for multiple shows even up until now. I realize the workflow means that shows someone works on sometimes don't get finished an released for months, but that's why it was such a big surprise to find out she hasn't been at Gimlet since April! I want to believe there are no bad guys here, but that six months of silence makes me wonder.
posted by rikschell at 6:02 AM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 6:02 AM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
I am unimpressed that it took a year from the last episode to do the announcement, and six months since she was let go, and I'm a little unclear about "we're trying to work with her about how to allow her to keep making the show" -- I don't understand how it takes that much work. (Am I missing something? I assume if they really wanted her to be able to keep making the show, they could have made that happen nearly immediately, even if it took her a while to find a new home.)
I get that Mystery Show was expensive to make, and I can maybe even see that they needed to see how something shook up financially before they decided, but the announcement comes off very oddly, and as a company that pretends to be very open, this is a weirdly worded announcement.
posted by jeather at 6:10 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
I get that Mystery Show was expensive to make, and I can maybe even see that they needed to see how something shook up financially before they decided, but the announcement comes off very oddly, and as a company that pretends to be very open, this is a weirdly worded announcement.
posted by jeather at 6:10 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
In a time before the Internet (say, with shows being broadcast over the radio), we'd probably have no idea what happened. The sudden disappearance of Mystery Show would have made for a great episode of Mystery Show.
posted by belarius at 6:11 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by belarius at 6:11 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm a little unclear about "we're trying to work with her about how to allow her to keep making the show" -- I don't understand how it takes that much work. (Am I missing something? I assume if they really wanted her to be able to keep making the show, they could have made that happen nearly immediately, even if it took her a while to find a new home.)
Surely this is about legal negotiations over intellectual property ownership and money?
posted by timdiggerm at 6:20 AM on October 7, 2016 [8 favorites]
Surely this is about legal negotiations over intellectual property ownership and money?
posted by timdiggerm at 6:20 AM on October 7, 2016 [8 favorites]
> Surely this is about legal negotiations over intellectual property ownership and money?
That's what I assumed. I'm really hoping they can work something out (maybe some sort of licensing deal?) to allow another podcast network to produce the show.
posted by noneuclidean at 6:28 AM on October 7, 2016
That's what I assumed. I'm really hoping they can work something out (maybe some sort of licensing deal?) to allow another podcast network to produce the show.
posted by noneuclidean at 6:28 AM on October 7, 2016
I keep waiting for the moment that someone takes Alex Blumberg aside and says, "Look... you know podcasts don't make any money, right?"
Podcasts can definitely make money. Patreon seems to be a great route to doing so. Chapo Trap House pulls in upwards of 15k/month, and War Nerd Radio is like 6k/episode. Both of those are built on a "some free content, some contributors-only" content model. Both were also launched by hosts that had preexisting audiences, too, but Kine does have that advantage as well. Both of those shows do have much less production overhead, however.
I loved Mystery Show and hope they can find a home for it.
posted by turntraitor at 6:29 AM on October 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
Podcasts can definitely make money. Patreon seems to be a great route to doing so. Chapo Trap House pulls in upwards of 15k/month, and War Nerd Radio is like 6k/episode. Both of those are built on a "some free content, some contributors-only" content model. Both were also launched by hosts that had preexisting audiences, too, but Kine does have that advantage as well. Both of those shows do have much less production overhead, however.
I loved Mystery Show and hope they can find a home for it.
posted by turntraitor at 6:29 AM on October 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
Alex's audio statement seems to hint at something beyond expense and lack of progress for the firing. He says, "we are transparent about a lot of things, but some things simply need to remain private".
posted by chrchr at 6:30 AM on October 7, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by chrchr at 6:30 AM on October 7, 2016 [11 favorites]
Well, terse for a company famous for airing its internal workings very publicly.
As much as they air their workings pretty publicly, they don't tend to focus on fuck ups except for those of Alex B. And Matt. Even the episode covering the fuck up with misleading a little kid to get an ad interview was more about Alex's failure of leadership than the producer.
So... Given that the reddit link reminded me that mystery show was supposed to be back in July 2015,I can totally see why Starlee coming back from a trip this April after another dead end would be the final straw.
So, I hope that if Starlee figures at all this season, the subject is treated with respect and any drama stays off the air.
As far as the timing... Starlee's statement came out first, right? Maybe she wanted time to process it before going public? I can't see myself wanting Gimlet to announce before she did.
posted by sparklemotion at 6:39 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
As much as they air their workings pretty publicly, they don't tend to focus on fuck ups except for those of Alex B. And Matt. Even the episode covering the fuck up with misleading a little kid to get an ad interview was more about Alex's failure of leadership than the producer.
So... Given that the reddit link reminded me that mystery show was supposed to be back in July 2015,I can totally see why Starlee coming back from a trip this April after another dead end would be the final straw.
So, I hope that if Starlee figures at all this season, the subject is treated with respect and any drama stays off the air.
As far as the timing... Starlee's statement came out first, right? Maybe she wanted time to process it before going public? I can't see myself wanting Gimlet to announce before she did.
posted by sparklemotion at 6:39 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's also exactly six months after April, which suggests to some that a non disclosure or non compete may have expired.
posted by chrchr at 6:42 AM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by chrchr at 6:42 AM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm also wondering why, given all the praise for Starlee in Gimlet's statement, that they didn't cancel the show and have her work on a more sustainable show. Drop the thing that isn't working, but keep the strong talent.
Apparently Matt Lieber had this to say on the Gimlet Slack:
"We worked on Season 2 for quite a few months with Starlee inside the company, and then tried to create space for her to produce it outside the company.
But unfortunately episodes did not materialize.
And only recently did we conclude that there really wasn't a chance of it coming back as a Gimlet show.
It's a bit weird, because we try and be as transparent as we can about what goes on at Gimlet.
But there are some boundaries to that."
It really seems to me that the talent really wasn't that strong compared to the amount of money and time that was put in.
posted by Soi-hah at 6:43 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
Apparently Matt Lieber had this to say on the Gimlet Slack:
"We worked on Season 2 for quite a few months with Starlee inside the company, and then tried to create space for her to produce it outside the company.
But unfortunately episodes did not materialize.
And only recently did we conclude that there really wasn't a chance of it coming back as a Gimlet show.
It's a bit weird, because we try and be as transparent as we can about what goes on at Gimlet.
But there are some boundaries to that."
It really seems to me that the talent really wasn't that strong compared to the amount of money and time that was put in.
posted by Soi-hah at 6:43 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
Both of those shows do have much less production overhead, however.
There's a reason why most podcasts are just talk radio. Real radio production, like any pre-produced content, gets expensive real quick, and even if it isn't expensive in terms of money it certainly is in terms of time. And if you listen to the first year of the Startup podcast, Alex seemed to be holding out this weird hope that the venture was going to be able to have the kind of P/E ratio of a successful Silicon Valley startup.
I have no idea where his head is at these days since I sort of dropped off listening to their podcasts, so my information may be dated.
posted by selfnoise at 6:43 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
There's a reason why most podcasts are just talk radio. Real radio production, like any pre-produced content, gets expensive real quick, and even if it isn't expensive in terms of money it certainly is in terms of time. And if you listen to the first year of the Startup podcast, Alex seemed to be holding out this weird hope that the venture was going to be able to have the kind of P/E ratio of a successful Silicon Valley startup.
I have no idea where his head is at these days since I sort of dropped off listening to their podcasts, so my information may be dated.
posted by selfnoise at 6:43 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
The only (other) Gimlet show I listen to is Reply All and I've noticed their ad reads are becoming a lot more involved. No other show I listen to has ad reads that long and deep---and I listen to a LOT of podcasts. I don't listen to Startup, but if Gimlet has some money issues, this would explain some of this. (Though, really, they should let Starlee have the damn intellectual property. This isn't worth fighting, if that's the holdup.)
posted by SansPoint at 6:52 AM on October 7, 2016
posted by SansPoint at 6:52 AM on October 7, 2016
Surely this is about legal negotiations over intellectual property ownership and money?
Yes, but that suggests that Gimlet doesn't simply want Kine to keep producing Mystery Show however she can, they want to get money for it. Which is fine, they probably spent a lot of money on the show, but isn't what they said.
they air their workings pretty publicly
They don't, really, or not since season 1. There are a lot of good reasons to not want to do so -- there are a lot of hiring/firing decisions that shouldn't be made on air, they probably can't go into that much detail about their finances and the branded podcast income, there is a limit to how much detail they are willing to give about how they find podcasts/hosts they want to bring on, there isn't that much detail about how they develop new(ish) podcasts because secrecy pre-podcast drop. I can't really blame them for these choices, but it would make the podcast more appropriate if they admitted that they really aren't open like they used to be and discussed how they decided what to share.
(It's telling that the only hiring decision done on the show was hiring Nazanin, who was totally not hired because she was the boss's wife, absolutely, not a chance.)
posted by jeather at 6:54 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yes, but that suggests that Gimlet doesn't simply want Kine to keep producing Mystery Show however she can, they want to get money for it. Which is fine, they probably spent a lot of money on the show, but isn't what they said.
they air their workings pretty publicly
They don't, really, or not since season 1. There are a lot of good reasons to not want to do so -- there are a lot of hiring/firing decisions that shouldn't be made on air, they probably can't go into that much detail about their finances and the branded podcast income, there is a limit to how much detail they are willing to give about how they find podcasts/hosts they want to bring on, there isn't that much detail about how they develop new(ish) podcasts because secrecy pre-podcast drop. I can't really blame them for these choices, but it would make the podcast more appropriate if they admitted that they really aren't open like they used to be and discussed how they decided what to share.
(It's telling that the only hiring decision done on the show was hiring Nazanin, who was totally not hired because she was the boss's wife, absolutely, not a chance.)
posted by jeather at 6:54 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
To be clear, I am sure Nazanin is a great person for her role, but also get real.
posted by jeather at 6:55 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jeather at 6:55 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Bare minimum, if Mystery Show comes back in any form, it needs to keep its awesome theme song.
posted by SansPoint at 7:09 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 7:09 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Seems like Gimlet and Blumberg are largely being cast as the villians of this incident but you simply don't dump a successful, critically-lauded podcast without something going seriously awry behind the scenes. Most likely Kine made some commitments she didn't keep (this is backed up by her own admission of having serious difficulties putting the second season together) and Blumberg is doing the decent thing by not tarnishing her professional reputation and airing that dirty laundry.
I always thought that Gimlet's model of hiring people on an ongoing basis to produce content is highly flawed. They should be looking to make podcasts like television networks make TV shows. Commission shows on a per season basis from external freelancers. But I guess that essentially reduces it to a podcast network like Panoply.
posted by smithsmith at 7:11 AM on October 7, 2016 [18 favorites]
I always thought that Gimlet's model of hiring people on an ongoing basis to produce content is highly flawed. They should be looking to make podcasts like television networks make TV shows. Commission shows on a per season basis from external freelancers. But I guess that essentially reduces it to a podcast network like Panoply.
posted by smithsmith at 7:11 AM on October 7, 2016 [18 favorites]
I'm not quite sure how Gimlet's hoping to make the "listener-supported" model work.
If I give money to Radiotopia, almost all of it goes to the content-creators and employees. It's an easy sales pitch.
If I give money to Gimlet, some portion of that money goes straight back to Gimlet's VC backers, and prolongs the period during which Gimlet can distort the industry by burning VC cash to hire public radio journalists.
I generally love the content that Gimlet puts out, but I still have a tough time coming to terms with their business model. I don't think a for-profit venture-backed startup is a good fit for a podcasting collective.
posted by schmod at 7:13 AM on October 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
If I give money to Radiotopia, almost all of it goes to the content-creators and employees. It's an easy sales pitch.
If I give money to Gimlet, some portion of that money goes straight back to Gimlet's VC backers, and prolongs the period during which Gimlet can distort the industry by burning VC cash to hire public radio journalists.
I generally love the content that Gimlet puts out, but I still have a tough time coming to terms with their business model. I don't think a for-profit venture-backed startup is a good fit for a podcasting collective.
posted by schmod at 7:13 AM on October 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
Even last year, in podcasting circles, I have heard Mystery Show used as an example of a podcast that is almost inherently unproduceable at this point in time due to the nature of the show (the travel, the length of time to produce) plus the death of radio and the lack of development cash in podcasting.
She really should have shopped it to TV/streaming, where she would have gotten production budget sufficient to the work, and to bring in a production team who knows how to pre-produce and prep and bring in a show on time and on budget which, I hear, is not where Starlee Kine is coming from. As a creative lead, she's the heart and soul of the show, but as a person who is maybe more letting the material happen instead of making the material happen, she's not a good producer. That's not a character flaw or anything, but it makes the show unaffordable for podcasting.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:15 AM on October 7, 2016 [17 favorites]
She really should have shopped it to TV/streaming, where she would have gotten production budget sufficient to the work, and to bring in a production team who knows how to pre-produce and prep and bring in a show on time and on budget which, I hear, is not where Starlee Kine is coming from. As a creative lead, she's the heart and soul of the show, but as a person who is maybe more letting the material happen instead of making the material happen, she's not a good producer. That's not a character flaw or anything, but it makes the show unaffordable for podcasting.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:15 AM on October 7, 2016 [17 favorites]
Regarding the "podcasts don't make any money" assertion, on the episode of "Startup" that just dropped yesterday, the Gimlet folks talked about agonizing over accepting a $500,000 contract to do a branded podcast for the Pentagon.
Clearly, that's a premium for a well-produced and edited product, as opposed to a talk-radio-esque podcast of some people recording random musings in their parents' basement. I think the Gimlet business proposition is that there's money to be made creating the highly-produced content.
And I will miss "Mystery Show" but I can totally see how there could be tension between creative vision and the imperative to maintain a revenue stream and stay on-deadline.
posted by QuantumMeruit at 7:22 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Clearly, that's a premium for a well-produced and edited product, as opposed to a talk-radio-esque podcast of some people recording random musings in their parents' basement. I think the Gimlet business proposition is that there's money to be made creating the highly-produced content.
And I will miss "Mystery Show" but I can totally see how there could be tension between creative vision and the imperative to maintain a revenue stream and stay on-deadline.
posted by QuantumMeruit at 7:22 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Regarding the "podcasts don't make any money" assertion, on the episode of "Startup" that just dropped yesterday, the Gimlet folks talked about agonizing over accepting a $500,000 contract to do a branded podcast for the Pentagon.
That isn't podcasting, that's marketing. I completely agree that running marketing for the military is probably great money.
posted by selfnoise at 7:27 AM on October 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
That isn't podcasting, that's marketing. I completely agree that running marketing for the military is probably great money.
posted by selfnoise at 7:27 AM on October 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
I know outrageFilter against management is the norm on MeFi, but even reading Starlee Kine's own initial statement it sounded to me like she had gone incommunicado for a while, which to my mind is a good way to get yourself fired.
I'm sorry for it, regardless of how the "fault" is distributed, because I really liked the show too. And... I am a bit reminded of how On the Media dropped Meredith Hagerty and the TL;DR podcast (she inherited it from Alex and PJ) without any comment for a long time (actually I am not sure OTM has ever said why they dropped it, though she had taken the stories in a completely different direction than the original concept, possibly to distinguish herself from Reply All).
posted by aught at 7:29 AM on October 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'm sorry for it, regardless of how the "fault" is distributed, because I really liked the show too. And... I am a bit reminded of how On the Media dropped Meredith Hagerty and the TL;DR podcast (she inherited it from Alex and PJ) without any comment for a long time (actually I am not sure OTM has ever said why they dropped it, though she had taken the stories in a completely different direction than the original concept, possibly to distinguish herself from Reply All).
posted by aught at 7:29 AM on October 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
While I adore ReplyAll and more or less enjoyed Startup, I've always found it off-putting how much poaching of NPR/This American Life talent Blumberg did once he left the public radio world to start Gimlet.
I realize those folks had their own free will and were probably offered a better benefits package to induce them to leave, but it started to feel gross with every new contributor he announced that you otherwise knew from the public radio world, including Kine. Maybe find your own talent, dude.
This business with Kine makes me wonder how it would've been handled at NPR.
posted by Karaage at 7:35 AM on October 7, 2016
I realize those folks had their own free will and were probably offered a better benefits package to induce them to leave, but it started to feel gross with every new contributor he announced that you otherwise knew from the public radio world, including Kine. Maybe find your own talent, dude.
This business with Kine makes me wonder how it would've been handled at NPR.
posted by Karaage at 7:35 AM on October 7, 2016
The new season 4 episode of StartUp does talk about this, and continues the effusive praise but doesn't go into a lot of detail.
posted by ellieBOA at 7:37 AM on October 7, 2016
posted by ellieBOA at 7:37 AM on October 7, 2016
Gimlet seems to have spent some travel money on Heavyweight, the new Jonathan Goldstein podcast, which is really wonderful and shares some of the idiosyncratic charm of Starlee and Mystery Show. Episode 1 brought them to Florida, episode 2 went to LA, but episode 3 stayed in NYC. I also wonder if Goldstein is relatively more expensive talent, given that he used to work for the prestigious Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.
Is Heavyweight now going to partially fill the spot left by Mystery Show? I don't know. I'm really missing Starlee. I love Jonathan, but he's not a replacement for her. It's not yet getting the same media coverage and word of mouth that Mystery Show got, either. One thing that may make Heavyweight more viable is that it doesn't promise to solve a mystery or get a resolution with each episode, and Jonathan is experienced enough to make failure entertaining.
This situation may have parallels with the CBC's cancellation of DNTO/Definitely Not The Opera this year and more or less replacing it with Out in the Open. Both shows focus on a theme and a collection of personal stories, but while DNTO seemed to have been be phoning it in lately -- except for Sook-Yin Lee's always charming streeters -- OitO seems to be working harder, going well beyond the team's circle of friends, and it still seems personal and fresh.
posted by maudlin at 7:43 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Is Heavyweight now going to partially fill the spot left by Mystery Show? I don't know. I'm really missing Starlee. I love Jonathan, but he's not a replacement for her. It's not yet getting the same media coverage and word of mouth that Mystery Show got, either. One thing that may make Heavyweight more viable is that it doesn't promise to solve a mystery or get a resolution with each episode, and Jonathan is experienced enough to make failure entertaining.
This situation may have parallels with the CBC's cancellation of DNTO/Definitely Not The Opera this year and more or less replacing it with Out in the Open. Both shows focus on a theme and a collection of personal stories, but while DNTO seemed to have been be phoning it in lately -- except for Sook-Yin Lee's always charming streeters -- OitO seems to be working harder, going well beyond the team's circle of friends, and it still seems personal and fresh.
posted by maudlin at 7:43 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
In the latest ep of Startup, they revealed that their revenue target for the year is $6 million, which they hit. Some of that is surely from the branded podcast business, but those advertisers pay real money for top podcasts.
posted by chrchr at 7:43 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by chrchr at 7:43 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
I absolutely understand that Mystery Show was more than likely expensive to produce, and since it was complicated and the stories didn't operate on a proper timeline (the whole point was to solve a mystery! and who knows how long that will take!), I liked that someone out there was making room for such a show. I don't know all of what went on behind the scenes (even reading the two statements) but this does make me disappointed with Gimlet. Maybe they really did all they could, though. I have no idea.
I guess I'm getting more and more tired of podcasts that top out at about 25 minutes and neglect to explore topics in depth. I understand the pressures of money and having to produce something new every week (or every two) but so often I listen to something and I feel like "that's it?" I liked Mystery Show because it went deep into things.
I hope she's able to find a way to continue with it.
posted by darksong at 7:52 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
I guess I'm getting more and more tired of podcasts that top out at about 25 minutes and neglect to explore topics in depth. I understand the pressures of money and having to produce something new every week (or every two) but so often I listen to something and I feel like "that's it?" I liked Mystery Show because it went deep into things.
I hope she's able to find a way to continue with it.
posted by darksong at 7:52 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
If I give money to Gimlet, some portion of that money goes straight back to Gimlet's VC backers, and prolongs the period during which Gimlet can distort the industry by burning VC cash to hire public radio journalists.Pendaticfilter: this is not quite how VC works, and media companies everywhere have similar funding incentives/structures/problems.
Re: VC, deals vary but most VC deals are in exchange for stock or stock at some point in the future.
If Gimlet is like most startups, their VCs can only make money off of them by having other people buy Gimlet's stock from them - i.e. Gimlet goes public or they get bought by a larger company.
At no point does your money, as a consumer, or as a sponsor, go to any VC's coffers. Indirectly, you will net them profit if and only if Gimlet turns out to be a really successful company.
The very valid critique of VC is that their incentives are towards their entire pool of bets; they want you to go big or go home, and they don't care if you burn out chasing unsustainable growth. Better for you to flame out trying than slowly grow over a period longer than the turn around of their funds.
Re: media companies writ large, a lot, if not an outright majority, of media is run either as a vehicle for prestige by wealthy people or is cross subsidized by less savoury elements, or both. The Washington Post, the Wall St Journal, the New York Times - all unprofitable institutions. Bloomberg magazine exists only because of Bloomberg terminals.
So in terms of distortions… it's not a free market to begin with. Yes, they're snapping up good public radio talent - but this would matter only if public radio funding suffers for it, and to my knowledge that cross is not on Gimlet's shoulders. I was sad to learn Jonathan Goldstein left the CBC for Gimlet, but then again - the CBC is way overdue for some fresh talent to spread their wings.
posted by pmv at 7:53 AM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
This situation may have parallels with the CBC's cancellation of DNTO/Definitely Not The Opera this year and more or less replacing it with Out in the Open.I think CANADALAND said it best - does the CBC owe these people jobs for life?
posted by pmv at 7:54 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
I do a relatively straight-forward beery sciencey podcast that's basically two talking heads plus guests plus brewing experiments done across the globe by fans of the show. I write the scripts, deal with the social, IT and experiment coordination - my partner handles all the audio side of the house and uses his contacts to drum up guests and sponsors. (He's got the worse end of the stick since he has to listen to and edit me).
Even for that simple podcast, I think our latest episode (~2.5 hours, dropping next Weds) took a total of 20 hours of recording/editing on his side. (It was also complicated with phone in Q&A, phone guests and our regular content, so we need to be better organized about that)
That's a lot of work for a straight ahead show. For Mystery Show? I can't even imagine. That's gotta be ridiculous and the content beast must be fed - particularly if someone has actual $$ on the line.
I hope she gets to do more of it in some fashion because Belt Buckle is one of the best things I've ever put in my ears
posted by drewbage1847 at 7:56 AM on October 7, 2016 [9 favorites]
Even for that simple podcast, I think our latest episode (~2.5 hours, dropping next Weds) took a total of 20 hours of recording/editing on his side. (It was also complicated with phone in Q&A, phone guests and our regular content, so we need to be better organized about that)
That's a lot of work for a straight ahead show. For Mystery Show? I can't even imagine. That's gotta be ridiculous and the content beast must be fed - particularly if someone has actual $$ on the line.
I hope she gets to do more of it in some fashion because Belt Buckle is one of the best things I've ever put in my ears
posted by drewbage1847 at 7:56 AM on October 7, 2016 [9 favorites]
When you think of the complex Venn diagram of the Mystery Show and what made it so entertaining, I'm not surprised that it may be over. It's a goofy mystery, solved in a meandering way with the luck of meeting offbeat people and held together with the glue of Kine's creativity, personality and passion. Some art cannot be monetized. Sometimes your artist hits a dead end. Art for profit has always been a tenuous relationship, marked more by failures than achievements. It's often the forcing of the issue which creates the biggest failures. I hope this hasn't destroyed Kine and she's able to find a new outlet for her energies.
posted by amanda at 7:59 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by amanda at 7:59 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
That's a lot of work for a straight ahead show.
Hi. Yes. If you ever want, like, 20 pages of me writing ABSENT GOOD PRODUCTION/EDITING, SMART PEOPLE TALKING IN A ROOM IS NOT NECESSARILY A GOOD SHOW, I am happy to provide it. Scribbled over and over in different colored markers.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 7:59 AM on October 7, 2016 [23 favorites]
Hi. Yes. If you ever want, like, 20 pages of me writing ABSENT GOOD PRODUCTION/EDITING, SMART PEOPLE TALKING IN A ROOM IS NOT NECESSARILY A GOOD SHOW, I am happy to provide it. Scribbled over and over in different colored markers.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 7:59 AM on October 7, 2016 [23 favorites]
But how much will those markers cost? Do we have the budget for it?
posted by maudlin at 8:01 AM on October 7, 2016
posted by maudlin at 8:01 AM on October 7, 2016
you know podcasts don't make any money, right?
From the episode, they hit a $7 million revenue target. Even assuming that eBay paid $500k for Open for Business, that's $6.5 million in ad revenue. Yeah, it's costing them a lot to make the content that's selling the ads, but that's not nothing money.
I've always found it off-putting how much poaching of NPR/This American Life talent Blumberg did
I think you might be overestimating how much of what you might hear on NPR is actually produced by NPR. This American Life certainly isn't. Neither are a lot the "big" shows that Gimlet has hired people from (On the Media, Marketplace, etc). It's easy to assume that everything you hear on your local public radio station is NPR, but it's really not. And I as much as I can't fault Blumberg for hiring people whose work he is familiar with, I especially can't fault him for hiring people with public radio experience to help grow a business that is about producing quality radio, because there simply isn't a lot of quality radio out there that doesn't have some connection to public radio somewhere.
It's interesting how much Heavyweight is being brought up as the "replacement" for Mystery Show, because Heavyweight might just be the first Gimlet show I decide not to bother with. Mystery Show, I was pretty iffy on, but something about the previews made me think that maybe it was just quirky enough to give it a go, and I ended up pleasantly surprised by it. I like Jonathan Goldstein well enough, but I was kind of put off by the TAL segment about his father and uncle (which, it turns out, is the first episode of Heavyweight), and I just can't see myself getting into a show that's like that all the time. Which is fine -- they should make shows for lots of different people, and lots of different people don't share my tastes.
As long as we're talking about Gimlet content:
Those of you who were turned off (for good reason) by Surprisingly Awesome in the beginning might want to give it a another try. The "new" hosts (including fun guests hosts like John Hodgman) make for a much better show than the Adams did. And I'm holding out hope that even if Adam Davidson comes back, they'll replace McKay with Rachel Ward forever and ever.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:11 AM on October 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
From the episode, they hit a $7 million revenue target. Even assuming that eBay paid $500k for Open for Business, that's $6.5 million in ad revenue. Yeah, it's costing them a lot to make the content that's selling the ads, but that's not nothing money.
I've always found it off-putting how much poaching of NPR/This American Life talent Blumberg did
I think you might be overestimating how much of what you might hear on NPR is actually produced by NPR. This American Life certainly isn't. Neither are a lot the "big" shows that Gimlet has hired people from (On the Media, Marketplace, etc). It's easy to assume that everything you hear on your local public radio station is NPR, but it's really not. And I as much as I can't fault Blumberg for hiring people whose work he is familiar with, I especially can't fault him for hiring people with public radio experience to help grow a business that is about producing quality radio, because there simply isn't a lot of quality radio out there that doesn't have some connection to public radio somewhere.
It's interesting how much Heavyweight is being brought up as the "replacement" for Mystery Show, because Heavyweight might just be the first Gimlet show I decide not to bother with. Mystery Show, I was pretty iffy on, but something about the previews made me think that maybe it was just quirky enough to give it a go, and I ended up pleasantly surprised by it. I like Jonathan Goldstein well enough, but I was kind of put off by the TAL segment about his father and uncle (which, it turns out, is the first episode of Heavyweight), and I just can't see myself getting into a show that's like that all the time. Which is fine -- they should make shows for lots of different people, and lots of different people don't share my tastes.
As long as we're talking about Gimlet content:
Those of you who were turned off (for good reason) by Surprisingly Awesome in the beginning might want to give it a another try. The "new" hosts (including fun guests hosts like John Hodgman) make for a much better show than the Adams did. And I'm holding out hope that even if Adam Davidson comes back, they'll replace McKay with Rachel Ward forever and ever.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:11 AM on October 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
Gimlet provides us with resources and editorial attention we could never have dreamed of in most of the other places we worked at. So that's why I was happily poached.
posted by Alex Goldman at 8:15 AM on October 7, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by Alex Goldman at 8:15 AM on October 7, 2016 [31 favorites]
And I as much as I can't fault Blumberg for hiring people whose work he is familiar with, I especially can't fault him for hiring people with public radio experience to help grow a business that is about producing quality radio, because there simply isn't a lot of quality radio out there that doesn't have some connection to public radio somewhere.
I'd like to hope that they are also planning to foster and grow new talent, though. (I have no idea; they might already be doing this.)
posted by jeather at 8:18 AM on October 7, 2016
I'd like to hope that they are also planning to foster and grow new talent, though. (I have no idea; they might already be doing this.)
posted by jeather at 8:18 AM on October 7, 2016
Gimlet provides us with resources and editorial attention we could never have dreamed of in most of the other places we worked at. So that's why I was happily poached.
Care to elaborate on this a bit?
posted by durandal at 8:25 AM on October 7, 2016
Care to elaborate on this a bit?
posted by durandal at 8:25 AM on October 7, 2016
Arranging travel for a story in my public radio years was very difficult or we had to pay for it out of pocket. Paying employees living wages was not a thing. Paying interns was not a thing. Having a dedicated editor, several dedicated editors, or a staff robust enough to make the show go were not really things.
Gimlet has made decisions that were absolutely not in the interest of its bottom line in order to grow its shows, or let us try something that may or may not work. They have given us the freedom to do stuff like drop acid and break into buildings. They have given us the guidance to make us much better reporters, writers and editors. None of these resources were available to us in the public radio system. I guess I can only speak from my personal experience and not speak on behalf of the whole RA crew. But for me, it's night and day.
posted by Alex Goldman at 8:31 AM on October 7, 2016 [39 favorites]
Gimlet has made decisions that were absolutely not in the interest of its bottom line in order to grow its shows, or let us try something that may or may not work. They have given us the freedom to do stuff like drop acid and break into buildings. They have given us the guidance to make us much better reporters, writers and editors. None of these resources were available to us in the public radio system. I guess I can only speak from my personal experience and not speak on behalf of the whole RA crew. But for me, it's night and day.
posted by Alex Goldman at 8:31 AM on October 7, 2016 [39 favorites]
The differences regarding the story qualities and freedom definitely shows through, and I'm not at all surprised that people left for more creative freedom, which is great to hear. Sounds like the bigger problem is the fact that public radio is (unable or unwilling) to treat their employees properly financially, which again, I don't blame people at all for leaving.
posted by Karaage at 8:38 AM on October 7, 2016
posted by Karaage at 8:38 AM on October 7, 2016
There’s an equation that I’ve developed to help interpret public statements regarding a creative dissolution in my tiny corner of the show business world:
(overwhelming compliment of the work itself) + (overt mention that some things are private) - (specific mention of the artist’s personal positive qualities) = Somebody involved was a *huge* jerk. Possibly everybody.
posted by chinese_fashion at 8:52 AM on October 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
(overwhelming compliment of the work itself) + (overt mention that some things are private) - (specific mention of the artist’s personal positive qualities) = Somebody involved was a *huge* jerk. Possibly everybody.
posted by chinese_fashion at 8:52 AM on October 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
That isn't podcasting, that's marketing. I completely agree that running marketing for the military is probably great money.
Looking at my podcast subscriptions, they fall into three basic buckets:
1. unplanned, unrehearsed interview style talk radio "supported" by promo code ads
2. NPR
3. free podcast to market a product or consulting firm
I haven't followed Gimlet closely, but from what I understand, they're trying to get NPR quality using the funding stream of #1, and it works out about as well as you'd expect. If they want SV P/E ratios, they should really be investing a lot in improving adtech beyond referral codes. Which would basically also require them to destroy the open podcast to deliver custom audio ads.
But there may not be a lot of blood to squeeze out of the 'things I listen to while driving home' market in the first place, compared to say, internet search.
posted by pwnguin at 9:00 AM on October 7, 2016
Looking at my podcast subscriptions, they fall into three basic buckets:
1. unplanned, unrehearsed interview style talk radio "supported" by promo code ads
2. NPR
3. free podcast to market a product or consulting firm
I haven't followed Gimlet closely, but from what I understand, they're trying to get NPR quality using the funding stream of #1, and it works out about as well as you'd expect. If they want SV P/E ratios, they should really be investing a lot in improving adtech beyond referral codes. Which would basically also require them to destroy the open podcast to deliver custom audio ads.
But there may not be a lot of blood to squeeze out of the 'things I listen to while driving home' market in the first place, compared to say, internet search.
posted by pwnguin at 9:00 AM on October 7, 2016
I guess I'm getting more and more tired of podcasts that top out at about 25 minutes and neglect to explore topics in depth.
I find myself on the other side of this divide. I am somewhat put off by the Serial-ization of the podcasting world, where things are drawn out seemingly endlessly, and maybe you learn something or get entertained... but often not. From Mystery Show I learned that Starlee Kine was willing to put tons of time and other people's attention into finding out that Jake Gyllenhaal is 5'11", which was delightful enough for the journey but not something I missed when it was gone. "Feeding the content beast" sounds like a drag, but if all you have to show for your efforts is six episodes of shaggy-dog stories, maybe podcasting isn't the right format for Mystery Show.
(I mostly listen to podcasts while exercising or running - weird, I know - so the more "uptempo" energy of Gimlet shows like Reply All, Science Vs., or Surprisingly Awesome is a better fit in general. They're generally bite-size, frequently fresh, and reliably good.)
posted by psoas at 9:16 AM on October 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
I find myself on the other side of this divide. I am somewhat put off by the Serial-ization of the podcasting world, where things are drawn out seemingly endlessly, and maybe you learn something or get entertained... but often not. From Mystery Show I learned that Starlee Kine was willing to put tons of time and other people's attention into finding out that Jake Gyllenhaal is 5'11", which was delightful enough for the journey but not something I missed when it was gone. "Feeding the content beast" sounds like a drag, but if all you have to show for your efforts is six episodes of shaggy-dog stories, maybe podcasting isn't the right format for Mystery Show.
(I mostly listen to podcasts while exercising or running - weird, I know - so the more "uptempo" energy of Gimlet shows like Reply All, Science Vs., or Surprisingly Awesome is a better fit in general. They're generally bite-size, frequently fresh, and reliably good.)
posted by psoas at 9:16 AM on October 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
solve The AskMe Mystery of the Paint Roller TV Intro.
Or solve The Goddammit People It's Not Three's Company Why Do You All Keep Insisting It's Three's Company, Their Intros Were Mostly Original Material Except For The Extended Intros & I Have The Things On DVD And I Don't Remember Seeing It Goddammit Mystery
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:48 AM on October 7, 2016
Or solve The Goddammit People It's Not Three's Company Why Do You All Keep Insisting It's Three's Company, Their Intros Were Mostly Original Material Except For The Extended Intros & I Have The Things On DVD And I Don't Remember Seeing It Goddammit Mystery
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:48 AM on October 7, 2016
I am a bit reminded of how On the Media dropped Meredith Hagerty and the TL;DR podcast (she inherited it from Alex and PJ) without any comment for a long time (actually I am not sure OTM has ever said why they dropped it, though she had taken the stories in a completely different direction than the original concept, possibly to distinguish herself from Reply All).
I thought it was pretty clear that they dropped her because of the stink Vivek Wadhwa made over not being contacted about the “Quiet, Wadhwa” episode. The episode itself was pulled, Hagerty did a somewhat combative interview with Wadhwa immediately afterwards, and Brook Gladstone did an interview with Hagerty about the episode that basically amounted to "what were you thinking?"
posted by maxsparber at 10:04 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
I thought it was pretty clear that they dropped her because of the stink Vivek Wadhwa made over not being contacted about the “Quiet, Wadhwa” episode. The episode itself was pulled, Hagerty did a somewhat combative interview with Wadhwa immediately afterwards, and Brook Gladstone did an interview with Hagerty about the episode that basically amounted to "what were you thinking?"
posted by maxsparber at 10:04 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
I can't help picturing P.J. and Alex endlessly pitching stories to WNYC management in which they break into buildings or drop acid.
posted by chrchr at 10:22 AM on October 7, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by chrchr at 10:22 AM on October 7, 2016 [9 favorites]
We wanted to buy a gun off of Facebook. They weren't so into it
posted by to sir with millipedes at 11:00 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by to sir with millipedes at 11:00 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Wow... podcast drama. I love it. Hopefully, everyone will work things out -- they're all tremendously talented people and I've really enjoyed what Gimlet has going on, Mystery Show or not.
I am a little put off by all these new subscription models that are popping up -- I hope that's a problem which gets addressed in some wholesale way, rather than piecemeal like it is now. I really can't afford to give $5 month to Howl and $5 to MaxFun and $5 to Gimlet and so on... the money adds up fast! Maybe they'll all consolidate under some master organization at some point and The Netflix of Podcasts emerges as expectations of podcast quality become higher.
posted by ph00dz at 11:32 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
I am a little put off by all these new subscription models that are popping up -- I hope that's a problem which gets addressed in some wholesale way, rather than piecemeal like it is now. I really can't afford to give $5 month to Howl and $5 to MaxFun and $5 to Gimlet and so on... the money adds up fast! Maybe they'll all consolidate under some master organization at some point and The Netflix of Podcasts emerges as expectations of podcast quality become higher.
posted by ph00dz at 11:32 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Maybe they'll all consolidate under some master organization at some point and The Netflix of Podcasts emerges as expectations of podcast quality become higher.
That's pretty funny, because Netflix has quickly become the NOT-Netflix of streaming video.
posted by destructive cactus at 12:42 PM on October 7, 2016
That's pretty funny, because Netflix has quickly become the NOT-Netflix of streaming video.
posted by destructive cactus at 12:42 PM on October 7, 2016
Hot Docs confirmed the Nov 20 Toronto show for me on Twitter
posted by yellowbinder at 12:47 PM on October 7, 2016
posted by yellowbinder at 12:47 PM on October 7, 2016
This is so disappointing. I loved Mystery Show. I had pretty much given up on there being any more episodes, but it was still sad to read Starlee's post. Given the show's pouplarity, I'm going to give Gimlet the benefit of the doubt that they made a rational decision to let Starlee go and that they didn't just suddenly give her the axe. And having known a lot of people who were fired, usually even if there are giant flashing warning signs, they still seem surprised when it happens.
sparklemotion - I had no idea that Surprisingly Awesome had taken a new turn. I'll give it another shot. I had found it dreadfully boring before, but I'm willing to try it again.
posted by radioamy at 1:52 PM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
sparklemotion - I had no idea that Surprisingly Awesome had taken a new turn. I'll give it another shot. I had found it dreadfully boring before, but I'm willing to try it again.
posted by radioamy at 1:52 PM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
I had no idea that Surprisingly Awesome had taken a new turn.
The Cardboard episode was pretty great (just enough Hodgman, doesn't let him go full Hodgman* like the Extinct Hockey episode).
The Yoga episode was interesting in light of discussions regarding yoga that I've had before.
*not that there is anything wrong with that, but Hodgman is a taste that is not necessarily shared by all.
posted by sparklemotion at 2:21 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Cardboard episode was pretty great (just enough Hodgman, doesn't let him go full Hodgman* like the Extinct Hockey episode).
The Yoga episode was interesting in light of discussions regarding yoga that I've had before.
*not that there is anything wrong with that, but Hodgman is a taste that is not necessarily shared by all.
posted by sparklemotion at 2:21 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
I had no idea that Surprisingly Awesome had taken a new turn.
It was sort of weird idea from the start, to think that an Academy-Award-nominated (and very much in-demand) director would have the time to regularly host a podcast, and looks like reality won out there. The new hosts are good, and it's broken the format a few times (I'm thinking of the flossing episode) that have been good for keeping it from feeling same-y.
posted by psoas at 2:24 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
It was sort of weird idea from the start, to think that an Academy-Award-nominated (and very much in-demand) director would have the time to regularly host a podcast, and looks like reality won out there. The new hosts are good, and it's broken the format a few times (I'm thinking of the flossing episode) that have been good for keeping it from feeling same-y.
posted by psoas at 2:24 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Awww, that's a shame. I really liked these six episodes. Well, if they never produce another, I guess I'll just have to think of them as lightning in a bottle.
And like almost every fan, I sent a personal mystery to the show, knowing that nothing would happen, but part of the charm was the idea that there was this person out there solving weird, offbeat mysteries.
posted by Kattullus at 3:01 PM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
And like almost every fan, I sent a personal mystery to the show, knowing that nothing would happen, but part of the charm was the idea that there was this person out there solving weird, offbeat mysteries.
posted by Kattullus at 3:01 PM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh man, I sort had hoped a Limetown thing happened where it turned out that new episodes would not happen due to TV deal.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:11 PM on October 7, 2016
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:11 PM on October 7, 2016
I've been following Gimlet since the very beginning of Start-Up Podcast, and rooting for it to win/succeed/make everybody rich. Putting that into perspective, I remember hearing a few weeks ago that until some insanely recent period -- like six months or a year ago -- This American Life was operating in such incredibly cramped quarters that in most of their meetings the staff were bunched in a tiny office where multiple people had to sit on the floor. It wasn't until just now that they've been able to afford decent office space.
As for Gimlet, Mystery Show was my absolute fave and I'm sad it's not around now. Reply All -- hated at first, love it now. Start Up -- generally like it. Liked the season about failure, looking forward to the new season. Surprisingly Awesome -- loved at first, hated in the middle (Frequently flyer miles? Not one damn awesome thing about them), starting to like it again. Heavyweight -- enjoying it so far. Science Vs. -- only listened to one, will listen to more for sure. Sampler -- do not understand this at all; listened to one and never again. I even tried an ep of the branded thing they did with eBay, which was mildly interesting.
But yeah, I guess I do wonder about how their business model can work. Their ads -- it's not that the ads are bad, but they're just not for things I want or need. I don't really want to get a preview of their shows or go on Slack with the hosts, so I haven't joined as a member. I guess I just want to, like, give them $20 like I do with This American Life when Ira asks for it. Can we just do that?
posted by BlahLaLa at 5:27 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
As for Gimlet, Mystery Show was my absolute fave and I'm sad it's not around now. Reply All -- hated at first, love it now. Start Up -- generally like it. Liked the season about failure, looking forward to the new season. Surprisingly Awesome -- loved at first, hated in the middle (Frequently flyer miles? Not one damn awesome thing about them), starting to like it again. Heavyweight -- enjoying it so far. Science Vs. -- only listened to one, will listen to more for sure. Sampler -- do not understand this at all; listened to one and never again. I even tried an ep of the branded thing they did with eBay, which was mildly interesting.
But yeah, I guess I do wonder about how their business model can work. Their ads -- it's not that the ads are bad, but they're just not for things I want or need. I don't really want to get a preview of their shows or go on Slack with the hosts, so I haven't joined as a member. I guess I just want to, like, give them $20 like I do with This American Life when Ira asks for it. Can we just do that?
posted by BlahLaLa at 5:27 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
It was sort of weird idea from the start, to think that an Academy-Award-nominated (and very much in-demand) director would have the time to regularly host a podcast, and looks like reality won out there.
Are they going to bring his daughter back to sing every once in a while? Christ that was interminable.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 1:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Are they going to bring his daughter back to sing every once in a while? Christ that was interminable.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 1:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Gimlet's "secret sauce" is that they invest a ton of money in the human infrastructure needed to make each episode. "We are story experts, so we can make stories SO GOOD we will get the listeners needed to sell expensive ads."
But sometimes I think it's a case of Too Many Cooks. I imagine the human infrastructure required to make a single episode - all those producers, all those folks hitting the pavement. Sometimes it seems to pay off. But, the quality of an episode with lots of interviews and research vs. an episode with just PJ talking to his mom?
I don't think the formula is paying off.
posted by rebent at 12:55 PM on October 8, 2016
But sometimes I think it's a case of Too Many Cooks. I imagine the human infrastructure required to make a single episode - all those producers, all those folks hitting the pavement. Sometimes it seems to pay off. But, the quality of an episode with lots of interviews and research vs. an episode with just PJ talking to his mom?
I don't think the formula is paying off.
posted by rebent at 12:55 PM on October 8, 2016
This American Life was operating in such incredibly cramped quarters that in most of their meetings the staff were bunched in a tiny office where multiple people had to sit on the floor. It wasn't until just now that they've been able to afford decent office space.
Except: they were cramped partly because they moved production to New York from Chicago, where WBEZ has an enormous office and multiple studios. They gave that up to do so.
posted by listen, lady at 2:26 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
Except: they were cramped partly because they moved production to New York from Chicago, where WBEZ has an enormous office and multiple studios. They gave that up to do so.
posted by listen, lady at 2:26 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
I loved Mystery Show but am willing to acknowledge that I have no idea what happened behind the scenes. Having said that, how many women host Gimlet shows now?
posted by latkes at 6:03 PM on October 9, 2016
posted by latkes at 6:03 PM on October 9, 2016
Having said that, how many women host Gimlet shows now?
If Heavyweight is a "replacement" for Mystery Show, I'd say they've taken a significant step towards parity.
posted by sparklemotion at 6:28 PM on October 9, 2016
If Heavyweight is a "replacement" for Mystery Show, I'd say they've taken a significant step towards parity.
posted by sparklemotion at 6:28 PM on October 9, 2016
It looks like two of six current Gimlet shows are hosted by women: Sampler and Science Vs.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:58 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:58 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
*Startup is also (usually) hosted by a woman.
posted by General Malaise at 9:51 AM on October 10, 2016
posted by General Malaise at 9:51 AM on October 10, 2016
Startup and Surprisingly Awesome are hosted by women, so my count is 4/6. If you want to quibble with the co-host/guest-host dynamics and give them each 0.5 each, then 3/6.
posted by sparklemotion at 11:28 AM on October 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by sparklemotion at 11:28 AM on October 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
New Gimlet podcasts were announced -- one scripted series, with two men and one woman acting, written by two men; one show about organized crime hosted by two men; one nonfiction "interesting unknown history" type show hosted by one man.
And StartUp, now that it's finished with Gimlet for a bit, is going to be about Dov Charney.
posted by jeather at 8:08 AM on November 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
And StartUp, now that it's finished with Gimlet for a bit, is going to be about Dov Charney.
posted by jeather at 8:08 AM on November 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
How many women host Gimlet shows now?
I should been more explicit previously about my concerns regarding judging a company with a handful of shows for not achieving perfect gender parity. But, in the interest of accuracy I might as well update the tally:
All three of the new shows sound much better than Heavyweight does, so I'm looking forward to them.
*not really "hosted", but given the cast ratio (3 dudes, 2 ladies) and the writers (dudes) I figured I'd stick it here.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:52 AM on November 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
I should been more explicit previously about my concerns regarding judging a company with a handful of shows for not achieving perfect gender parity. But, in the interest of accuracy I might as well update the tally:
Dudes: Ladies: Crimetown Startup Homecoming* Science Vs. Undone Surprisingly Awesome Heavyweight Reply AllI'm not sure about the statistical significance of this either, but it is true that both of the cancelled shows have been lady shows: Sampler and Mystery Show. We have been promised that Brittany Luse will be back, so that will help with evening things back up.
All three of the new shows sound much better than Heavyweight does, so I'm looking forward to them.
*not really "hosted", but given the cast ratio (3 dudes, 2 ladies) and the writers (dudes) I figured I'd stick it here.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:52 AM on November 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
Is there some reasonable way to contact the advertisers and say "you are advertising on something that is promoting someone who has kept videos of his sexual harassment of employees, I will not support you"? I can't really figure out how.
posted by jeather at 3:05 PM on November 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jeather at 3:05 PM on November 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
Here is the list of Gimlet sponsors: email them?
Matt Lieber on the Charney episodes:
Matt Lieber on the Charney episodes:
Charney was described by Business Insider's Jim Edwards as "infuriating, charming, arrogant." Lieber calls Charney “controversial but compelling,” and says the show does not shy away from the accusations. “It’s not purely a celebration,” Lieber says.posted by sparklemotion at 3:54 PM on November 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
It might not be a celebration, but it is many hours of free advertising for whatever his new company is. I am sure he is interesting: many people are. Many people who did not use their positions as employer to sexually harass their employees.
posted by jeather at 5:31 PM on November 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by jeather at 5:31 PM on November 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
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posted by Stacey at 5:29 AM on October 7, 2016 [14 favorites]