Sex, Drugs, Guns, Death (California Edition)
October 17, 2016 7:41 AM Subscribe
There are 17 propositions on California's ballot this year (average is 18). According to the L.A. Times, California voters will be asked on Nov. 8 to sort through the longest list of statewide propositions since the PlayStation 2 was on the market and the St. Louis Rams won the Super Bowl. Trying to make sense of each of them is going to be a project, so here we go, one by one. First links are to the official ballot measures. Controversial measures have more links. Add to the discussion with more links in comments.
51 School Bonds. Funding for K-12 School and Community College Facilities. Initiative Statute.
52 Medi-Cal Hospital Fee Program. Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute. This initiative makes permanent a fee paid by private hospitals that helps the state obtain Medi-Cal funds.
53 Revenue Bonds. Statewide Voter Approval. Initiative Constitutional Amendment.
54 Legislature. Legislation and Proceedings. Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute. Requires that state bills be printed and posted online three days before lawmakers vote on them.
55 Tax Extension to Fund Education and Healthcare. Initiative Constitutional Amendment.
56 Cigarette Tax to Fund Healthcare, Tobacco Use Prevention, Research, and Law Enforcement. Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute. This initiative will raise the tax rate for tobacco from one of lowest in the country to one of the highest.
57 Criminal Sentences. Parole. Juvenile Criminal Proceedings and Sentencing. Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute. The first time Jerry Brown was governor, four decades ago, he signed a “tough on crime” law that put criminals behind bars for longer sentences. The law also eliminated credit for “good behavior.” Now Brown says that policy was a failure.
Proposition 57 is Brown’s effort to fix what he sees as problems created when inmates have no incentive to improve themselves. The measure also aims to reduce crowding in state prisons, which have been under federal court oversight for a decade. That oversight began after a lawsuit claimed overcrowding led to substandard health care in prisons.
58 English Proficiency. Multilingual Education. Initiative Statute. Eliminates a law that schools teach students in English only. School districts could adopt any approach they see fit to teaching English learners, as long as they get community input and ensure that all students master the English language.
59 Corporations. Political Spending. Federal Constitutional Protections. Legislative Advisory Question. Prop 59 is an advisory measure seeking voter opinion on whether officials should act to overturn the Citizens United court ruling.
60 Adult Films. Condoms. Health Requirements. Initiative Statute. Both the Republican and Democratic parties of California recommend a no vote on this initiative that would allow any resident of California to file a lawsuit against adult film performers and businesses that make adult films available for sale and presumes liability if a condom is not visible. Primarily funded by AIDS Healthcare Foundation. More here from KPBS. More here from the Adult Performer Advocacy Coalition (APAC).
61 State Prescription Drug Purchases. Pricing Standards. Initiative Statute. Also sponsored to the tune of $14 million by AIDS Healthcare Foundation, it sounds reasonable to lower prescription drug costs. Unfortunately, there is nothing that proves it actually would lower these costs for 88% of Californians and may adversely affect veterans.
62 Death Penalty. Initiative Statute. No inmates on death row have been executed since 2006. This initiative would repeal the death penalty in California. Prop 62 and 66 are dueling propositions.
63 Firearms. Ammunition Sales. Initiative Statute. California already has some of the toughest gun control laws in the nation. But Proposition 63 aims to tighten them even further, while also placing new regulations on selling or buying ammunition. Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom is the main force behind Proposition 63.
64 Marijuana Legalization. Initiative Statute.Prop 64 would legalize marijuana and hemp in California. Pot is already legal for medical use. This would go further and legalize it for recreational use. Adults 21 or older could have up to an ounce of pot and grow up to six plants. There would be a 15% sales tax imposed. Thorough assessment on impact on the Northern part of the state from the Santa Rosa Press Democrat.
65 Carry-Out Bags. Charges. Initiative Statute.You probably thought the plastic bag debate was over: The Legislature passed a statewide ban in 2014, and before that dozens of local governments in California had already banned supermarkets from handing out plastic bags at the checkout counter.
What you're voting on: The plastic bag industry is fighting for manufacturing jobs, and brought not one but two measures to California’s ballot this year.
One is Proposition 67, which asks voters to approve or reject the statewide ban, which hasn’t yet taken effect. Proposition 65 is about money. Right now, when you forget to bring your reusable bag to the store and hand over a dime for a paper bag, the store keeps your money. The Legislative Analyst’s Office estimates that’s “several tens of millions of dollars annually.”
66 Death Penalty. Procedures. Initiative Statute. Supporters of Proposition 66 say we should “mend, not end California’s death penalty.” They argue that legal appeals required by law are much slower than they need to be. Their measure would shorten the appeals process in several ways. Prop 62 and 66 are dueling propositions.
67 Ban on Single-Use Plastic Bags. Referendum. That statewide ban hasn’t taken effect because immediately after it became law, the American Progressive Bag Alliance, an industry group that lobbied against the bill, began collecting signatures to stop it with Proposition 67. Proposition 67 doesn’t ask voters whether they want to reject the law. It asks whether they want the law to take effect.
The top 10 contributors to each ballot initiative (pro and con) can be found here. The Los Angeles Times estimated that more than $452 million will be spent directly on ballot measures in California in 2016.
51 School Bonds. Funding for K-12 School and Community College Facilities. Initiative Statute.
52 Medi-Cal Hospital Fee Program. Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute. This initiative makes permanent a fee paid by private hospitals that helps the state obtain Medi-Cal funds.
53 Revenue Bonds. Statewide Voter Approval. Initiative Constitutional Amendment.
54 Legislature. Legislation and Proceedings. Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute. Requires that state bills be printed and posted online three days before lawmakers vote on them.
55 Tax Extension to Fund Education and Healthcare. Initiative Constitutional Amendment.
56 Cigarette Tax to Fund Healthcare, Tobacco Use Prevention, Research, and Law Enforcement. Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute. This initiative will raise the tax rate for tobacco from one of lowest in the country to one of the highest.
57 Criminal Sentences. Parole. Juvenile Criminal Proceedings and Sentencing. Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute. The first time Jerry Brown was governor, four decades ago, he signed a “tough on crime” law that put criminals behind bars for longer sentences. The law also eliminated credit for “good behavior.” Now Brown says that policy was a failure.
Proposition 57 is Brown’s effort to fix what he sees as problems created when inmates have no incentive to improve themselves. The measure also aims to reduce crowding in state prisons, which have been under federal court oversight for a decade. That oversight began after a lawsuit claimed overcrowding led to substandard health care in prisons.
58 English Proficiency. Multilingual Education. Initiative Statute. Eliminates a law that schools teach students in English only. School districts could adopt any approach they see fit to teaching English learners, as long as they get community input and ensure that all students master the English language.
59 Corporations. Political Spending. Federal Constitutional Protections. Legislative Advisory Question. Prop 59 is an advisory measure seeking voter opinion on whether officials should act to overturn the Citizens United court ruling.
60 Adult Films. Condoms. Health Requirements. Initiative Statute. Both the Republican and Democratic parties of California recommend a no vote on this initiative that would allow any resident of California to file a lawsuit against adult film performers and businesses that make adult films available for sale and presumes liability if a condom is not visible. Primarily funded by AIDS Healthcare Foundation. More here from KPBS. More here from the Adult Performer Advocacy Coalition (APAC).
61 State Prescription Drug Purchases. Pricing Standards. Initiative Statute. Also sponsored to the tune of $14 million by AIDS Healthcare Foundation, it sounds reasonable to lower prescription drug costs. Unfortunately, there is nothing that proves it actually would lower these costs for 88% of Californians and may adversely affect veterans.
62 Death Penalty. Initiative Statute. No inmates on death row have been executed since 2006. This initiative would repeal the death penalty in California. Prop 62 and 66 are dueling propositions.
63 Firearms. Ammunition Sales. Initiative Statute. California already has some of the toughest gun control laws in the nation. But Proposition 63 aims to tighten them even further, while also placing new regulations on selling or buying ammunition. Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom is the main force behind Proposition 63.
64 Marijuana Legalization. Initiative Statute.Prop 64 would legalize marijuana and hemp in California. Pot is already legal for medical use. This would go further and legalize it for recreational use. Adults 21 or older could have up to an ounce of pot and grow up to six plants. There would be a 15% sales tax imposed. Thorough assessment on impact on the Northern part of the state from the Santa Rosa Press Democrat.
65 Carry-Out Bags. Charges. Initiative Statute.You probably thought the plastic bag debate was over: The Legislature passed a statewide ban in 2014, and before that dozens of local governments in California had already banned supermarkets from handing out plastic bags at the checkout counter.
What you're voting on: The plastic bag industry is fighting for manufacturing jobs, and brought not one but two measures to California’s ballot this year.
One is Proposition 67, which asks voters to approve or reject the statewide ban, which hasn’t yet taken effect. Proposition 65 is about money. Right now, when you forget to bring your reusable bag to the store and hand over a dime for a paper bag, the store keeps your money. The Legislative Analyst’s Office estimates that’s “several tens of millions of dollars annually.”
66 Death Penalty. Procedures. Initiative Statute. Supporters of Proposition 66 say we should “mend, not end California’s death penalty.” They argue that legal appeals required by law are much slower than they need to be. Their measure would shorten the appeals process in several ways. Prop 62 and 66 are dueling propositions.
67 Ban on Single-Use Plastic Bags. Referendum. That statewide ban hasn’t taken effect because immediately after it became law, the American Progressive Bag Alliance, an industry group that lobbied against the bill, began collecting signatures to stop it with Proposition 67. Proposition 67 doesn’t ask voters whether they want to reject the law. It asks whether they want the law to take effect.
The top 10 contributors to each ballot initiative (pro and con) can be found here. The Los Angeles Times estimated that more than $452 million will be spent directly on ballot measures in California in 2016.
Sadly, I have no such guide for the additional 25 (!!!) city, county, & local propositions in the San Francisco ballot.
posted by feckless at 7:47 AM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by feckless at 7:47 AM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
I just got my ballot Saturday. 2 sheets of paper, each 3 feet long. Here's a picture from someone else. As glad as I am to be able to vote against the death penalty, this is a bit much.
posted by zabuni at 7:55 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by zabuni at 7:55 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
feckless: Never fear, KQED has an extensive voter guide for the local races and propositions.
posted by cosmologinaut at 7:57 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by cosmologinaut at 7:57 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
What happens if conflicting propositions, like 62 and 66, are both approved?
posted by Sangermaine at 7:59 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Sangermaine at 7:59 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
A useful companion link: See the deep pockets behind California proposition campaigns. You can click on each proposition and see who is funding for/against it.
Proposition 60 (condoms in porn) is garbage. Literally everyone except the AIDS Healthcare Foundation of LA recommends voting no on it. That organization is headed up by Michael Weinstein, a widely discredited AIDS activist with dangerously wrong views.
I fear Prop 60 will pass though because most voters won't understand the complexity of it. The idea sounds reasonable enough on first reading. Scott Wiener's essay from July is a good explanation about why it's bad.
posted by Nelson at 8:01 AM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
Proposition 60 (condoms in porn) is garbage. Literally everyone except the AIDS Healthcare Foundation of LA recommends voting no on it. That organization is headed up by Michael Weinstein, a widely discredited AIDS activist with dangerously wrong views.
I fear Prop 60 will pass though because most voters won't understand the complexity of it. The idea sounds reasonable enough on first reading. Scott Wiener's essay from July is a good explanation about why it's bad.
posted by Nelson at 8:01 AM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
Which is the proposition to make Esperanto the official language of Melonville, and which is the one preventing Esperanto from becoming the official language of Melonville?
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:04 AM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:04 AM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
~*~ that's too many propositions ~*~
Piggybacking: Massachusetts has four statewide propositions on the ballot this year: expansion of slots gambling (pushed for by one guy basically on his own behalf), banning a particular kind of confinement in farm animals (which in practice affects one farm; the ban on sale of animals from other states that don't conform to the cage statute seems like it's probably unconstitutional in an interstate-commerce-y way), expanding charter schools and legalizing marijuana.
posted by dismas at 8:05 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Piggybacking: Massachusetts has four statewide propositions on the ballot this year: expansion of slots gambling (pushed for by one guy basically on his own behalf), banning a particular kind of confinement in farm animals (which in practice affects one farm; the ban on sale of animals from other states that don't conform to the cage statute seems like it's probably unconstitutional in an interstate-commerce-y way), expanding charter schools and legalizing marijuana.
posted by dismas at 8:05 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ahhh, bless you for this, I was planning to sit down with my mail-in ballot and go over all these this week.
posted by yasaman at 8:07 AM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 8:07 AM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
Maybe there's a Yay Direct Democracy angle I'm missing, but if you do these ballot initiatives/referenda what the hell do you have a legislature for?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:08 AM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:08 AM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
What happens if conflicting propositions, like 62 and 66, are both approved?
In this specific case, the legislative analyst included text in the voter guide explaining that a yes win on 66 would override prop 62.
posted by tclark at 8:11 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
In this specific case, the legislative analyst included text in the voter guide explaining that a yes win on 66 would override prop 62.
posted by tclark at 8:11 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Reading this post will expose you to fear, an emotion known to the State of California to cause anger, hate and suffering.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 8:15 AM on October 17, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by Foci for Analysis at 8:15 AM on October 17, 2016 [14 favorites]
tclark
Can you link to that? I'm looking at the voter guide entries for 62 and 66 and not seeing the override part. The analysis by the legislative analyst for both propositions notes the existence of the other one but doesn't speak to which takes precedence.
posted by Sangermaine at 8:17 AM on October 17, 2016
Can you link to that? I'm looking at the voter guide entries for 62 and 66 and not seeing the override part. The analysis by the legislative analyst for both propositions notes the existence of the other one but doesn't speak to which takes precedence.
posted by Sangermaine at 8:17 AM on October 17, 2016
Thank you for this. I got my sample ballot this weekend and was gobsmacked to see so many propositions on it. Didn't know where to begin to understand half of them.
posted by Hermione Granger at 8:22 AM on October 17, 2016
posted by Hermione Granger at 8:22 AM on October 17, 2016
tclark: "In this specific case, the legislative analyst included text in the voter guide explaining that a yes win on 66 would override prop 62."
Oh wow, no this is wrong. As with all competing propositions the one with the most votes goes into effect:
Proposition 62 and Proposition 66 are not compatible measures. Therefore, if both are approved by a majority of voters, then the one with the most "yes" votes would supersede the other.
posted by crazy with stars at 8:23 AM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
Oh wow, no this is wrong. As with all competing propositions the one with the most votes goes into effect:
Proposition 62 and Proposition 66 are not compatible measures. Therefore, if both are approved by a majority of voters, then the one with the most "yes" votes would supersede the other.
posted by crazy with stars at 8:23 AM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
Thanks for posting all of this, sophie1!
For people who want more info on the San Francisco ballot, here are the voter guides that I rely on (with the caveat that I'm directly involved in developing at least one of them). I'm happy to answer questions about any of the initiatives. I can also answer questions about Prop 64 - the marijuana initiative, again with the caveat that it's my job to do so and I'm not the least bit impartial about my support of it.
League of Pissed-off Voters - thoughtful progressive policy wonks
Harvey Milk LGBT Democratic Club -- queer progressive Dems
Bay Guardian Clean Slate -- the people who used to make these decisions for the Guardian now own the name, so the same people you trusted at the late Bay Guardian
posted by gingerbeer at 8:23 AM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
For people who want more info on the San Francisco ballot, here are the voter guides that I rely on (with the caveat that I'm directly involved in developing at least one of them). I'm happy to answer questions about any of the initiatives. I can also answer questions about Prop 64 - the marijuana initiative, again with the caveat that it's my job to do so and I'm not the least bit impartial about my support of it.
League of Pissed-off Voters - thoughtful progressive policy wonks
Harvey Milk LGBT Democratic Club -- queer progressive Dems
Bay Guardian Clean Slate -- the people who used to make these decisions for the Guardian now own the name, so the same people you trusted at the late Bay Guardian
posted by gingerbeer at 8:23 AM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
My apologies -- I am mistaken. I thought it was a matter of precedence, but my further research (OC Register link) indicates that the one with the higher number of Yes votes would win, should both be approved.
posted by tclark at 8:25 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by tclark at 8:25 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
For the quick-n-dirty progressive/queer take on all of this (including the SF ones), you could do much, much worse than following the Harvey Milk LBGT Democratic Club's endorsements.
posted by rtha at 8:25 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by rtha at 8:25 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't know why I got the idea it was in the voter pamphlet, sorry about that.
posted by tclark at 8:26 AM on October 17, 2016
posted by tclark at 8:26 AM on October 17, 2016
Doesn't California have a state legislature that handles these things?
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:26 AM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:26 AM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
If the average number of propositions on the California ballot is 18, this year there are 17, and this year is also the most propositions on the ballot since 2000, were there a crazy number of propositions on the ballot every year before 2000, or is this a typo?
posted by chainsofreedom at 8:27 AM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by chainsofreedom at 8:27 AM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]
Ugh, shit like Prop 60 shows up every few years, and it comes from such a paternalistic misunderstanding of the sex industry. Porn stars already self-regulate, require tests every two weeks, and are very unlikely to be passing along any STIs because of this.
When you have sex as frequently, vigorously, and for as long as porn stars have to, condoms actually INCREASE risk, because of micro-lacerations caused by latex on mucus membranes.
posted by explosion at 8:33 AM on October 17, 2016 [13 favorites]
When you have sex as frequently, vigorously, and for as long as porn stars have to, condoms actually INCREASE risk, because of micro-lacerations caused by latex on mucus membranes.
posted by explosion at 8:33 AM on October 17, 2016 [13 favorites]
crazy with stars,
Thanks, that's interesting. It seems like this would open a proposition to attack by allowing opponents to put up a conflicting proposition written in a way to get more votes (perhaps by tying it to something popular but only tangentially related). The court ruling Ballotpedia references describes initiatives as competing "either because they are expressly offered as 'all-or-nothing' alternatives or because each creates a comprehensive regulatory scheme related to the same subject". I could imagine using that second part to create such a conflicting initiative attack on a proposition you think you might lose directly.
posted by Sangermaine at 8:34 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Thanks, that's interesting. It seems like this would open a proposition to attack by allowing opponents to put up a conflicting proposition written in a way to get more votes (perhaps by tying it to something popular but only tangentially related). The court ruling Ballotpedia references describes initiatives as competing "either because they are expressly offered as 'all-or-nothing' alternatives or because each creates a comprehensive regulatory scheme related to the same subject". I could imagine using that second part to create such a conflicting initiative attack on a proposition you think you might lose directly.
posted by Sangermaine at 8:34 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
That's exactly why there are two plastic bag initiatives. One is from the plastic bag industry and written to be appealing, confusing, and to kill the other one. You have nailed their strategy exactly. And yes, this happens many years.
posted by gingerbeer at 8:37 AM on October 17, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by gingerbeer at 8:37 AM on October 17, 2016 [16 favorites]
All the California and LA Propositions in Haiku Form -- Google Drive doc via the LA Times.
Proposition 62
Vote for this one if
You want to eliminate
The death penalty
Proposition 66
If you want the state
To execute more people
This one is for you
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:49 AM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
Proposition 62
Vote for this one if
You want to eliminate
The death penalty
Proposition 66
If you want the state
To execute more people
This one is for you
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:49 AM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
If the average number of propositions on the California ballot is 18, this year there are 17, and this year is also the most propositions on the ballot since 2000, were there a crazy number of propositions on the ballot every year before 2000, or is this a typo?
It must be. According to story in the first link, "since reformers led by Gov. Hiram Johnson amended the state constitution to allow direct democracy in 1911. In the century since, voters have weighed in on more than 360 measures." 360 measures in 105 years would means the average has been 3.4 per year. However, per the numbers below, 360 is incorrect.
Based on to the lists on Wikipedia, in recent decades the annual averages have been:
1970-1979: 142 propositions, 14.2 per year
1980-1989: 140 propositions, 14.0 per year
1990-1999: 133 propositions, 13.3 per year
2000-2009: 113 propositions, 11.3 per year
2010-2016: 57 propositions, 8.1 per year
Total over 47 years: 585 propositions, 12.5 per year. (This counts a few that were removed by court order prior to the election.)
posted by beagle at 8:53 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
It must be. According to story in the first link, "since reformers led by Gov. Hiram Johnson amended the state constitution to allow direct democracy in 1911. In the century since, voters have weighed in on more than 360 measures." 360 measures in 105 years would means the average has been 3.4 per year. However, per the numbers below, 360 is incorrect.
Based on to the lists on Wikipedia, in recent decades the annual averages have been:
1970-1979: 142 propositions, 14.2 per year
1980-1989: 140 propositions, 14.0 per year
1990-1999: 133 propositions, 13.3 per year
2000-2009: 113 propositions, 11.3 per year
2010-2016: 57 propositions, 8.1 per year
Total over 47 years: 585 propositions, 12.5 per year. (This counts a few that were removed by court order prior to the election.)
posted by beagle at 8:53 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
For the San Francisco voters, Hoodline put together this nifty little tool to let you see exactly who has endorsed what. It's pretty handy for distinguishing more progressive consensus on candidates and initiatives from more moderate ones.
Also, for my links above, both SF Bay Guardian and the League have longer write-ups about why they support what and their analysis if you click through, including their thoughts on all the the state initiatives.
posted by gingerbeer at 8:54 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also, for my links above, both SF Bay Guardian and the League have longer write-ups about why they support what and their analysis if you click through, including their thoughts on all the the state initiatives.
posted by gingerbeer at 8:54 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
So in 2012, Long Beach had a proposition to ban marijuana establishments in the city.
Guess what's now up for repeal this year?
Also, I am small and petty and vote for tax increases that go to schools and public services every time, because even though I can vote there, I don't live there, but everyone gets to have more government because of me.
posted by Katemonkey at 9:04 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
Guess what's now up for repeal this year?
Also, I am small and petty and vote for tax increases that go to schools and public services every time, because even though I can vote there, I don't live there, but everyone gets to have more government because of me.
posted by Katemonkey at 9:04 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
I just got my ballot Saturday. 2 sheets of paper, each 3 feet long. Here's a picture from someone else.
I love that they have used an ancient old flip phone (Motorola something?) for scale. It matches the electoral system so nicely.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 9:08 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I love that they have used an ancient old flip phone (Motorola something?) for scale. It matches the electoral system so nicely.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 9:08 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Haven't read up on it, but every friend of mine in the Medical Marijuana industry opposes 64, FWIW.
posted by wcfields at 9:08 AM on October 17, 2016
posted by wcfields at 9:08 AM on October 17, 2016
I just got my ballot Saturday. 2 sheets of paper, each 3 feet long. Here's a picture from someone else. As glad as I am to be able to vote against the death penalty, this is a bit much.
I'm always struck dumb by my fiance's Florida ballot, but that California ballot is insane. For context, federal Canadian ballots are usually a piece of paper a bit bigger than my hand with 1-6 names on it (that is a fake ballot from Elections Canada website). Municipal ballots can be a standard sheet of paper and you might vote for up to 3 people (mayor, councillor, school trustee).
posted by flibbertigibbet at 9:15 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm always struck dumb by my fiance's Florida ballot, but that California ballot is insane. For context, federal Canadian ballots are usually a piece of paper a bit bigger than my hand with 1-6 names on it (that is a fake ballot from Elections Canada website). Municipal ballots can be a standard sheet of paper and you might vote for up to 3 people (mayor, councillor, school trustee).
posted by flibbertigibbet at 9:15 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
PROP 94: TO END ALL FUTURE PROPOSITIONS AND LET REPRESENTATIVES DO THEIR FUCKING JOBS INSTEAD. NO BACKSIES. ( ) YES ( ) NO
posted by tonycpsu at 9:18 AM on October 17, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 9:18 AM on October 17, 2016 [24 favorites]
When I visited my cousin in SF back in April, he was dead sure full legalization on weed was going to pass this time around. Is his a correct reading on the issue? Have things changed that much since 2010? Did the legal med scene sway enough votes?
posted by Thorzdad at 9:23 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Thorzdad at 9:23 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Th fucking proposition system is a blot on our lives and one of the worst expressions of our state temperament.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 9:27 AM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 9:27 AM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
Propositions were originally a Progressive concept, to get around calcified and business-controlled state legislatures. I have mixed feelings about them these days. Glad I finally signed up for permanent vote-by-mail so I can do the research at leisure.
posted by tavella at 9:28 AM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by tavella at 9:28 AM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]
A bit of history on the initiative system:
The practice in California began in 1911 when Gov. Hiram Johnson pushed for constitutional amendments to give citizens a more powerful voice and a way to bypass the legislature. A progressive, Johnson hoped to curb the influence of the corrupt politicians who were beholden to the powerful railroad companies. Today, it seems, his mission has backfired. Wealthy interests are back in the driver’s seat, steering outrageous sums of money into campaigns meant to influence the outcome of the vote on ballot initiatives that would help corporate bottom lines. This year, some political consultants think the money pouring into California’s ballot initiative industry will top $400 million. And there is no Hiram Johnson plugging for reform. Nonetheless, particularly in western states like California, Oregon, Colorado and Washington, says Bowser, “it is accepted that the initiative is a vibrant part of the political and lawmaking process.”posted by Sophie1 at 9:32 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
what the hell do you have a legislature for?
Doesn't California have a state legislature that handles these things?
Can we please stop with these point-and-laugh comments? Jesus.
posted by psoas at 9:36 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Doesn't California have a state legislature that handles these things?
Can we please stop with these point-and-laugh comments? Jesus.
posted by psoas at 9:36 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Fuck's sake, I'm not pointing and laughing, I asked an honest question about a system that I have zero familiarity with in an appropriate venue. If that's a problem for you, take it to MeTa.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:56 AM on October 17, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:56 AM on October 17, 2016 [13 favorites]
When I visited my cousin in SF back in April, he was dead sure full legalization on weed was going to pass this time around. Is his a correct reading on the issue? Have things changed that much since 2010? Did the legal med scene sway enough votes?
I find myself more-or-less agnostic on legalization (it is not hard to get pot in CA, as walking down the street in SF demonstrates amply), but I think I was swayed into Yes by (of all things) the Modesto Bee's endorsement, which relies heavily on the taxation, regulation, and decriminalizing arguments. (I have been finding ballot.fyi - which doesn't offer its own endorsements - to be a handy resource on who's saying what at the statewide level.)
Now can someone tell my why I should vote for either Scott Wiener or Jane Kim? ...because everywhere I've tried to find info on their relative merits, their supporters are TEARING THE FUCK into each other and the whole thing makes me feel unclean as all hell.
posted by psoas at 9:57 AM on October 17, 2016
I find myself more-or-less agnostic on legalization (it is not hard to get pot in CA, as walking down the street in SF demonstrates amply), but I think I was swayed into Yes by (of all things) the Modesto Bee's endorsement, which relies heavily on the taxation, regulation, and decriminalizing arguments. (I have been finding ballot.fyi - which doesn't offer its own endorsements - to be a handy resource on who's saying what at the statewide level.)
Now can someone tell my why I should vote for either Scott Wiener or Jane Kim? ...because everywhere I've tried to find info on their relative merits, their supporters are TEARING THE FUCK into each other and the whole thing makes me feel unclean as all hell.
posted by psoas at 9:57 AM on October 17, 2016
As a Californian I too am wondering why our state legislature doesn't do the job we pay them to do. It's not point-and-laugh, it's a failure of representative democracy.
posted by Nelson at 9:58 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 9:58 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
can someone tell my why I should vote for either Scott Wiener or Jane Kim?
I'm a big fan of Scott Wiener. He's been my supervisor for a few years. He's very effective, he gets shit done, including shit no one wants to deal with.
posted by Nelson at 9:59 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm a big fan of Scott Wiener. He's been my supervisor for a few years. He's very effective, he gets shit done, including shit no one wants to deal with.
posted by Nelson at 9:59 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
The legislature does do their jobs. These are a tiny handful of issues compared to all of the work that they do on the whole set of issues, from the state budget on down. And I'm not really one to defend the legislature, but come ON.
posted by gingerbeer at 10:01 AM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by gingerbeer at 10:01 AM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
The ballot/prop vs. state legislation thing is a matter of genuine weird differences between states, is mostly where I think folks are coming from. Speaking as an Oregonian who sees similar stuff if not at California's scale with our own ballot initiative and referendum systems. It's almost a "what's water?" thing for me, having grown up with it, for better or for worse, but for folks where it's not a standard part of the state legislation process it can look weird especially since they're mostly only going to hear about it when something particularly notable happens.
California tends to have a lot of them, and so "California is having an election again" makes news on its own sometimes. The rest of the time you're mostly likely only to hear about state ballot initiatives/props/referenda if it's for something zeitgeisty (legalizing weed, etc) or something really good (equality) or bad (regressive reproductive health moves).
posted by cortex at 10:01 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
California tends to have a lot of them, and so "California is having an election again" makes news on its own sometimes. The rest of the time you're mostly likely only to hear about state ballot initiatives/props/referenda if it's for something zeitgeisty (legalizing weed, etc) or something really good (equality) or bad (regressive reproductive health moves).
posted by cortex at 10:01 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
I am not a fan of Scott's, largely because I find his policies too conservative for me. It depends on where you stand politically -- she's the progressive and he's the moderate in this race. She's much better on actual solutions to homelessness, including pushing for higher percentages of affordable housing, criminal justice reform and police accountability, and education. He's opposed police accountability and reaches for criminal justice solutions to homelessness (park curfew, tent ban, etc.). I've worked with both of them, and appreciate Scott's leadership on HIV issues, in particular, but Jane's the one I'm supporting and campaigning for.
posted by gingerbeer at 10:08 AM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by gingerbeer at 10:08 AM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
The fucking proposition system is a blot on our lives and one of the worst expressions of our state temperament.
Colorado's got a lot of these, too, and while it's a hassle to educate ourselves about what's on the ballot, I do really like that at least some of these issues are not particularly partisan and have good arguments on both sides. Notably (and kinda recursively): Amendment 71: how hard should it be to amend the state constitution?
posted by asperity at 10:08 AM on October 17, 2016
Colorado's got a lot of these, too, and while it's a hassle to educate ourselves about what's on the ballot, I do really like that at least some of these issues are not particularly partisan and have good arguments on both sides. Notably (and kinda recursively): Amendment 71: how hard should it be to amend the state constitution?
posted by asperity at 10:08 AM on October 17, 2016
Alameda County friends, please consider voting yes on A1 for Affordable Housing. It will go a little way toward mitigating the massive cuts in low income housing expenditures in our county.
posted by latkes at 10:10 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by latkes at 10:10 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
Also as a lifelong Californian I can testify that our initiative system is shit.
posted by latkes at 10:11 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by latkes at 10:11 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
As a Californian I too am wondering why our state legislature doesn't do the job we pay them to do. It's not point-and-laugh, it's a failure of representative democracy.
Even though both of my state reps are Republican idiots, I still feel the state legislature as a whole does a better job representing my interests than the federal government. At least California acknowledges there is thing called climate change and is trying to do something about it. Yes, it could be better, but that's politics for you.
The proposition process is a well-meaning experiment that, like most other things in our decidedly flawed political system, has been captured by big money and special interests. I'm not sure if I'm ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
posted by entropicamericana at 10:34 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Even though both of my state reps are Republican idiots, I still feel the state legislature as a whole does a better job representing my interests than the federal government. At least California acknowledges there is thing called climate change and is trying to do something about it. Yes, it could be better, but that's politics for you.
The proposition process is a well-meaning experiment that, like most other things in our decidedly flawed political system, has been captured by big money and special interests. I'm not sure if I'm ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
posted by entropicamericana at 10:34 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
THANK YOU for this post!!! I was just this morning thinking "Hey, didn't someone in one of the election threads say something about making a post for the California election?" Obviously, I hadn't checked the front page yet. I also got my absentee ballot last week and am waiting until some time next week to have a nice evening in with a glass of wine and go over everything and fill it out. Kinda feels like homework night. (I'm in San Francisco, so I do have those 25 local propositions as well, ugh.) I know I say this every time I mention San Francisco local elections, but I'm usually a big fan of Terence Faulkner (warning: election megathread link) and his whackadoodle voter guide rebuttals. I'm pretty much guaranteed to vote the opposite way. However this time it appears he has authored arguments against several propositions which my knee-jerk reaction is also to vote against, so it looks like I have an interesting task ahead of me.
Current frontrunner for phrase I never want to hear again after this election: "Big Soda"
posted by sunset in snow country at 10:42 AM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
Current frontrunner for phrase I never want to hear again after this election: "Big Soda"
posted by sunset in snow country at 10:42 AM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
Haven't read up on it, but every friend of mine in the Medical Marijuana industry opposes 64, FWIW.
Large parts of the medical marijuana industry stand to lose out considerably if it becomes readily available, rather than only through medical marijuana channels, don't they?
posted by Dysk at 11:44 AM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
Large parts of the medical marijuana industry stand to lose out considerably if it becomes readily available, rather than only through medical marijuana channels, don't they?
posted by Dysk at 11:44 AM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
RE: Why the state legislature doesn't do all this
They often do but when someone/lobbyist group doesn't like the legislature's decision, they can try to bypass it with a public vote via this system. See: This years two propositions about plastic bags.
Every household with at least one registered voter is supposed to receive a voter information guide from the state. This election, it's 223 pages long. Having grown up here, I'm used to it, but there are years like this that seem a bit excessive. I wouldn't be surprised if interest groups try to time their preferred propositions with election years if they think high voter turnout increases the chances of passing (or vice versa).
posted by DyRE at 12:06 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
They often do but when someone/lobbyist group doesn't like the legislature's decision, they can try to bypass it with a public vote via this system. See: This years two propositions about plastic bags.
Every household with at least one registered voter is supposed to receive a voter information guide from the state. This election, it's 223 pages long. Having grown up here, I'm used to it, but there are years like this that seem a bit excessive. I wouldn't be surprised if interest groups try to time their preferred propositions with election years if they think high voter turnout increases the chances of passing (or vice versa).
posted by DyRE at 12:06 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
First, thank you to Sophie1 for posting this. We didn't get a voter guide but did get our absentee ballots, and this is very helpful!
Second, to those of you who wonder why the California Legislature shunts all of this
business off to the initiative process, instead of doing their jobs and passing legislation, believe me when we Californians wonder the same thing.
Well, time to dig in to the homework and vote!
posted by Lynsey at 12:11 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Second, to those of you who wonder why the California Legislature shunts all of this
business off to the initiative process, instead of doing their jobs and passing legislation, believe me when we Californians wonder the same thing.
Well, time to dig in to the homework and vote!
posted by Lynsey at 12:11 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
My friend Peter Stahl has been analyzing and rating CA propositions since 1980. You can read his analysis of the current propositions here
Having just reread the blue's policy on self-linking, I would like to humbly offer up my own resource, Mad Props, which takes an approach similar to Peter Stahl's. I cannot match him for longevity (I've only been doing this since 2008), but like his writeups, mine are unmonetized — a labor of love, offered in the spirit of public service to all Californians. Happy voting!
posted by /\/\/\/ at 12:24 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
Having just reread the blue's policy on self-linking, I would like to humbly offer up my own resource, Mad Props, which takes an approach similar to Peter Stahl's. I cannot match him for longevity (I've only been doing this since 2008), but like his writeups, mine are unmonetized — a labor of love, offered in the spirit of public service to all Californians. Happy voting!
posted by /\/\/\/ at 12:24 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
Every year I'm reminded of how much better the ballot initiative system is in theory than in practice.
posted by Horselover Fat at 12:35 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Horselover Fat at 12:35 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
The (SF local) voting guide that I've personally found most useful is SPUR's. I would describe my beliefs (and theirs) as a progressive pragmatism.
posted by danny the boy at 12:38 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by danny the boy at 12:38 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Haven't read up on it, but every friend of mine in the Medical Marijuana industry opposes 64, FWIW.Of course - prop 64 means more competition, and an ensuing capitalist race to the bottom.
I'm in favor of prop 64 for many reasons but one is good enough for me: the systemic racism in the current implementation of the half-assed decriminalization we've got now. Find me a black man who owns a weed business. Maybe when it's decriminalized, we'll have more racial equity in the weed gold rush.
posted by TheNewWazoo at 12:38 PM on October 17, 2016 [18 favorites]
Maybe when it's decriminalized, we'll have more racial equity in the weed gold rush.
*legalized, presumably - it's already pretty decriminalized in CA
And I'm not sure that's the trend in the states where legalization has passed, but it's not like the status quo has been great for racial equity either...
posted by atoxyl at 1:21 PM on October 17, 2016
*legalized, presumably - it's already pretty decriminalized in CA
And I'm not sure that's the trend in the states where legalization has passed, but it's not like the status quo has been great for racial equity either...
posted by atoxyl at 1:21 PM on October 17, 2016
It was such a relief last weekend to vote for Hillary. I feel like I can mentally move on at least a little bit from this incredibly stressful election. I honestly felt like if Trump had won, the US was choosing to leave democracy (even our crappy form of it) behind.
By the way, for California residents, vote "No" on 54. Some politically active friends and I discussed it, and it will end up dragging the legislative process to a halt: every bill gets lots of amendments; with this bill, they can't be voted up or down until they have been posted online for three days. The Republicans could effectively stop a bill just by tacking amendments on to it.
54 is a recipe for legislative gridlock.
posted by jackbrown at 1:23 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
By the way, for California residents, vote "No" on 54. Some politically active friends and I discussed it, and it will end up dragging the legislative process to a halt: every bill gets lots of amendments; with this bill, they can't be voted up or down until they have been posted online for three days. The Republicans could effectively stop a bill just by tacking amendments on to it.
54 is a recipe for legislative gridlock.
posted by jackbrown at 1:23 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
Thank you gingerbeer as well for answering my prop 61 question so well btw! My ballot went out today with that marked as a no vote.
posted by Carillon at 2:05 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Carillon at 2:05 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
California propositions got easier once I went to "default to no except for measures to raise taxes, which default to yes."
posted by tavella at 2:10 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by tavella at 2:10 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm voting for Kim even though (like Nelson) I admire Scott's get-things-done chops; I think he's effective, thoughtful, wonky, and incredibly-- callously-- wrong on homelessness and how to address it, which is a make or break for me. As for Kim's positive virtues, she's quite progressive and I think she'd be a great ally for Holly Mitchell in pushing our senate to lead on deep criminal justice reform.
I am super, super over both of their stupid, attack-dog campaigns, lmao.
I'm also tentatively voting yes on 61, which puts me in the minority here. No separate argument from what people have smartly said above, I just feel like we have few other options and I'm willing to believe that step 2 of this plan (given the legislators supporting it) is not just "wait for pharma to collapse in tears at our mighty bargaining power."
posted by peppercorn at 3:13 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
I am super, super over both of their stupid, attack-dog campaigns, lmao.
I'm also tentatively voting yes on 61, which puts me in the minority here. No separate argument from what people have smartly said above, I just feel like we have few other options and I'm willing to believe that step 2 of this plan (given the legislators supporting it) is not just "wait for pharma to collapse in tears at our mighty bargaining power."
posted by peppercorn at 3:13 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
Does anyone have links for good analysis of San Diego County/City propositions?
posted by pennypiper at 3:15 PM on October 17, 2016
posted by pennypiper at 3:15 PM on October 17, 2016
Unfortunately, Ballot Measure authors have gotten wise to the "default to no" strategy and they are now finding ways to write "veto propositions" where "Yes" is the status quo and "No" changes/rejects current law. i.e. Prop 67 this year and Prop 48 in 2014.
posted by 3j0hn at 3:46 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by 3j0hn at 3:46 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
For those in the East Bay, EB Express has a roundup and endorsements for Oakland, Berkeley, Emeryville, Richmond, Albany, and more.
East Bay Express
posted by waitangi at 4:19 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
East Bay Express
posted by waitangi at 4:19 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
To whose advantage does the ridiculous complexity of voting in America play?
posted by rokusan at 5:55 PM on October 17, 2016
posted by rokusan at 5:55 PM on October 17, 2016
Some more reading, for those who want to dive deeper into this rabbit hole: ballot.fyi, and Ballotpedia. I think I'm pretty well sure where I stand on most of the props (thanks especially to gingerbeer for a heartfelt speech on 61), though I'm still a bit confused on 51 if anyone has any great insight. One of the potential downsides I'm hearing is this sort of thing.
posted by themadthinker at 5:58 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by themadthinker at 5:58 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Thank you for that waitangi, I've not seen much East Bay coverage, especially not anything extending to my little burb of Emeryville!
posted by themadthinker at 6:10 PM on October 17, 2016
posted by themadthinker at 6:10 PM on October 17, 2016
though I'm still a bit confused on 51 if anyone has any great insight. One of the potential downsides I'm hearing is this sort of thing.
I mean, the money goes to school districts. Athletic facilities are school facilities, and it's not unreasonable to spend money to maintain them if that's the highest priority for facilities expenses. If your local district chooses to use the money on new stadiums and neglects leaking classroom roofs, that's on the school board.
posted by zachlipton at 6:18 PM on October 17, 2016
I mean, the money goes to school districts. Athletic facilities are school facilities, and it's not unreasonable to spend money to maintain them if that's the highest priority for facilities expenses. If your local district chooses to use the money on new stadiums and neglects leaking classroom roofs, that's on the school board.
posted by zachlipton at 6:18 PM on October 17, 2016
To our friends around the world:
There is no standard US system of voting, because the states hated each other and kept control over that because otherwise the big, bad federal government might standardize the process. So every state is full of its own quirks.
The ballot measure system that holds sway on the West Coast seems to be where the most hard-fought measures seem to end up—if the OR legislature (which meets very infrequently because reasons) can't agree on something or it gets too weird, they kick it to the ballots so voters can fight over it and millions of dollars get spent on advertising and landfill padding.
The printers and advertisers make out pretty well on the deal. On the other hand, Oregon has vote by mail so you can do all your research in pajamas.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 6:47 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
There is no standard US system of voting, because the states hated each other and kept control over that because otherwise the big, bad federal government might standardize the process. So every state is full of its own quirks.
The ballot measure system that holds sway on the West Coast seems to be where the most hard-fought measures seem to end up—if the OR legislature (which meets very infrequently because reasons) can't agree on something or it gets too weird, they kick it to the ballots so voters can fight over it and millions of dollars get spent on advertising and landfill padding.
The printers and advertisers make out pretty well on the deal. On the other hand, Oregon has vote by mail so you can do all your research in pajamas.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 6:47 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm glad that we don't have too many ballot measures here because PA doesn't mail out sample ballot so when there are any I usually end up reading them for the first time in the voting booth.
posted by octothorpe at 8:16 PM on October 17, 2016
posted by octothorpe at 8:16 PM on October 17, 2016
Large parts of the medical marijuana industry stand to lose out considerably if it becomes readily available, rather than only through medical marijuana channels, don't they?
Around here, the only people I know personally who were hurt by weed legalization were people growing and selling illegally -- legal weed meant lower prices, and their income dropped. Other than for them, legal weed seems to be largely to the good.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:59 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Around here, the only people I know personally who were hurt by weed legalization were people growing and selling illegally -- legal weed meant lower prices, and their income dropped. Other than for them, legal weed seems to be largely to the good.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:59 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Thanks for this thread from a California voter.
Every (other) year when I get my mail-in ballot, I try to devote a couple hours to surfing around the web figuring out how I want to change the world with my votes on the various propositions, bonds, and local officials. Last couple times, I was surprised by the continuing lack of local comprehensive local guides out there. I mean down to the judges and school board. Seems like just the thing for a local political blog to collect some long-tail views with.
When my grandparents were still alive, I'd usually pay them a visit around this time of year and just grab a couple voters guides they'd got in the mail that day and vote the opposite of whatever they recommended. I can't say this thread will be as much fun as those. But I expect to end up a little better informed for my trouble.
posted by bunbury at 10:06 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
Every (other) year when I get my mail-in ballot, I try to devote a couple hours to surfing around the web figuring out how I want to change the world with my votes on the various propositions, bonds, and local officials. Last couple times, I was surprised by the continuing lack of local comprehensive local guides out there. I mean down to the judges and school board. Seems like just the thing for a local political blog to collect some long-tail views with.
When my grandparents were still alive, I'd usually pay them a visit around this time of year and just grab a couple voters guides they'd got in the mail that day and vote the opposite of whatever they recommended. I can't say this thread will be as much fun as those. But I expect to end up a little better informed for my trouble.
posted by bunbury at 10:06 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also: in LA County: Measure M! More light rail! And because of fscking Prop 13, we need 2/3.
Prop 55 will be critical if universities don't want to be gutted. And we don't.
posted by persona au gratin at 10:47 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Prop 55 will be critical if universities don't want to be gutted. And we don't.
posted by persona au gratin at 10:47 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
While we're at it: I love this state. Yes, this is too much direct democracy. But I love it here.
posted by persona au gratin at 10:49 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by persona au gratin at 10:49 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
Voter's Edge is a godsend for letting you make all your decisions, then print them off into a little guide to take into the voting booth so you're not stuck on November 8th, holding up the line, trying to remember who you wanted to vote in as a judge.
posted by themadthinker at 6:02 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by themadthinker at 6:02 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
My standard go to for Proposition recommendations, Kevin Drum, just dropped his this morning at Mother Jones.
posted by 3j0hn at 7:07 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by 3j0hn at 7:07 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
...and this is why we don't count ballots by hand in the United States.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:11 AM on October 18, 2016
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:11 AM on October 18, 2016
Around here, the only people I know personally who were hurt by weed legalization were people growing and selling illegally -- legal weed meant lower prices, and their income dropped.
Where is "here" and did it have a similar medical marijuana system to California, where it's not too difficult for the dedicated stoner to get a medical marijuana card and buy to their heart's content for a lifetime (notably different to how all other prescriptions work)?
posted by Dysk at 7:23 AM on October 18, 2016
Where is "here" and did it have a similar medical marijuana system to California, where it's not too difficult for the dedicated stoner to get a medical marijuana card and buy to their heart's content for a lifetime (notably different to how all other prescriptions work)?
posted by Dysk at 7:23 AM on October 18, 2016
I don't know where Dip Flash is referring to, but the Sacramento Bee reported that marijuana prices in the Emerald Triangle in the northern part of the state bottomed out, which hurt profit margins of the growers and according to the article, illegally grown marijuana still fetches more money than marijuana grown with a license.
posted by fragmede at 7:47 AM on October 18, 2016
posted by fragmede at 7:47 AM on October 18, 2016
Where is "here" and did it have a similar medical marijuana system to California, where it's not too difficult for the dedicated stoner to get a medical marijuana card and buy to their heart's content for a lifetime (notably different to how all other prescriptions work)?
I can speak only to Oregon and Washington, which already had extensive medical marijuana availability when recreational legality happened. I'm not a smoker, but I knew a few people who were growing illegally at the time, and they were really mad about how steep the price drop was. Before recreational legalization, they were in a great position, with very low risk of arrest (because of changing police priorities, etc) but with prices kept high because of the illegal status. Legalization seemed to remove that price support.
The only downside to legalization that I have noticed is that weed is stinky and I smell it more now than I did even a few years ago. I don't know the specifics of how California is proposing to legalize, so there may be some aspects of that proposal that would be bad, even if someone were a proponent of legalization.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:57 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
I can speak only to Oregon and Washington, which already had extensive medical marijuana availability when recreational legality happened. I'm not a smoker, but I knew a few people who were growing illegally at the time, and they were really mad about how steep the price drop was. Before recreational legalization, they were in a great position, with very low risk of arrest (because of changing police priorities, etc) but with prices kept high because of the illegal status. Legalization seemed to remove that price support.
The only downside to legalization that I have noticed is that weed is stinky and I smell it more now than I did even a few years ago. I don't know the specifics of how California is proposing to legalize, so there may be some aspects of that proposal that would be bad, even if someone were a proponent of legalization.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:57 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
Re prop 61: it is endorsed by California Nurses Association, Bernie, and a number of other progressive voices (including me). Not sure I fully understand the argument against, but I see a strong argument for trying this as a method of meaningful price control.
posted by latkes at 8:17 AM on October 18, 2016
posted by latkes at 8:17 AM on October 18, 2016
My standard go to for Proposition recommendations, Kevin Drum, just dropped his this morning at Mother Jones.
I get the frustration with the initiative system, but some of his positions seem unnecessarily spiteful. His argument for voting No on 52 and 59 (and to some degree 55) boils down to "I'm in favor of these ideas but they shouldn't be on the ballot," which is not a message you can send with an up-or-down vote.
posted by psoas at 8:50 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
I get the frustration with the initiative system, but some of his positions seem unnecessarily spiteful. His argument for voting No on 52 and 59 (and to some degree 55) boils down to "I'm in favor of these ideas but they shouldn't be on the ballot," which is not a message you can send with an up-or-down vote.
posted by psoas at 8:50 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
Does anyone have links for good analysis of San Diego County/City propositions?
San Diego 2016 Progressive Voter Guide
Voice of San Diego's The Ultimate Guide to the Local Ballot Measures
Voter's Edge by KPBS.
posted by zabuni at 10:28 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
San Diego 2016 Progressive Voter Guide
Voice of San Diego's The Ultimate Guide to the Local Ballot Measures
Voter's Edge by KPBS.
posted by zabuni at 10:28 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
A few miscellaneous thoughts, and a question:
1) This year's crop of initiatives is really not that hard to figure out. Some years, we get obscure shit about how to regulate chiropractors. This time around, although the ballot is long, many/most of the propositions speak to fundamental issues; I knew from the first summary I read how I'd vote on 90% of them, and the more in-depth research I've done since has only changed my mind on one or two.
2) I concur with comments from gingerbeer and others that the legislature mostly does do its job, subject to the inherent difficulties of politics at least. Every New Year's Day, my local paper does a roundup of the new laws going into effect, most of which I'd never hear about otherwise. I always read the whole thing and feel pretty good about the legislature afterwards. Most of their work is actually pretty sensible.
3) I hear a lot of "default to no", which frankly is not a strategy I have a ton of respect for. We might overdo direct democracy in California, but it's the system we currently have, and there is potential within it for both good and bad outcomes. Do your homework and vote on the merits of each initiative, please.
4) Does anyone know why 62 and 66 are considered competing initiatives, where only the one with the most votes can pass? Is this written into the text? I ask because although I'm staunchly for 62 and against 66, I can imagine a position which makes voting for both intellectually coherent. Such a voter would want capital punishment abolished, but would also see 66 as a fallback improvement to the way capital punishment is administered. It seems to me that 62 should logically trump 66 if both get a majority, but apparently that is not the case -- why?
posted by aws17576 at 11:29 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
1) This year's crop of initiatives is really not that hard to figure out. Some years, we get obscure shit about how to regulate chiropractors. This time around, although the ballot is long, many/most of the propositions speak to fundamental issues; I knew from the first summary I read how I'd vote on 90% of them, and the more in-depth research I've done since has only changed my mind on one or two.
2) I concur with comments from gingerbeer and others that the legislature mostly does do its job, subject to the inherent difficulties of politics at least. Every New Year's Day, my local paper does a roundup of the new laws going into effect, most of which I'd never hear about otherwise. I always read the whole thing and feel pretty good about the legislature afterwards. Most of their work is actually pretty sensible.
3) I hear a lot of "default to no", which frankly is not a strategy I have a ton of respect for. We might overdo direct democracy in California, but it's the system we currently have, and there is potential within it for both good and bad outcomes. Do your homework and vote on the merits of each initiative, please.
4) Does anyone know why 62 and 66 are considered competing initiatives, where only the one with the most votes can pass? Is this written into the text? I ask because although I'm staunchly for 62 and against 66, I can imagine a position which makes voting for both intellectually coherent. Such a voter would want capital punishment abolished, but would also see 66 as a fallback improvement to the way capital punishment is administered. It seems to me that 62 should logically trump 66 if both get a majority, but apparently that is not the case -- why?
posted by aws17576 at 11:29 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
This year's crop of initiatives is really not that hard to figure out. Some years, we get obscure shit about how to regulate chiropractors. This time around, although the ballot is long, many/most of the propositions speak to fundamental issues; I knew from the first summary I read how I'd vote on 90% of them, and the more in-depth research I've done since has only changed my mind on one or two.
Some are harder to figure out than they seem - primarily I'm thinking of 65 and 67 here. The existence of the two death penalty props is a little confusing in itself though I think it's pretty clear which is which by looking at them.
posted by atoxyl at 11:37 AM on October 18, 2016
Some are harder to figure out than they seem - primarily I'm thinking of 65 and 67 here. The existence of the two death penalty props is a little confusing in itself though I think it's pretty clear which is which by looking at them.
posted by atoxyl at 11:37 AM on October 18, 2016
Some are harder to figure out than they seem - primarily I'm thinking of 65 and 67 here.
Somebody had a chart meant to map out what happens if 65 vs. 67 passes and what I took away from it is that I should probably vote yes on both - only to find that many commentators suggest that 65 is actually meant to sabotage 67.
posted by atoxyl at 11:42 AM on October 18, 2016
Somebody had a chart meant to map out what happens if 65 vs. 67 passes and what I took away from it is that I should probably vote yes on both - only to find that many commentators suggest that 65 is actually meant to sabotage 67.
posted by atoxyl at 11:42 AM on October 18, 2016
For 65/67, Ballotpedia has a chart of how they interact
posted by themadthinker at 11:46 AM on October 18, 2016
#/media/File:Cali2016Props65%2667Compare.png){kind=link}
posted by themadthinker at 11:46 AM on October 18, 2016
That's exactly the chart that I was talking about - I see now that it actually has a note below that 65 could possibly alternatively be interpreted as contradicting 67 but arguably presenting that information with no justification of whether it's a real concern is even more confusing.
Such a voter would want capital punishment abolished, but would also see 66 as a fallback improvement to the way capital punishment is administered.
I suppose this is maybe a position someone could have in theory but when 66 isn't just shooting holes in the possibility of appealing a death sentence it's adding extra creepy punitive stuff like this
Would require prisoners on death row to work while in prison and pay restitution to victims' families. The portion of wages to be provided as restitution would be increased to 70 percent.
so it seems like a pretty small set of voters who would actually support the provisions of both. However for voters who didn't thoroughly read both all bets are off.
posted by atoxyl at 11:54 AM on October 18, 2016
Such a voter would want capital punishment abolished, but would also see 66 as a fallback improvement to the way capital punishment is administered.
I suppose this is maybe a position someone could have in theory but when 66 isn't just shooting holes in the possibility of appealing a death sentence it's adding extra creepy punitive stuff like this
Would require prisoners on death row to work while in prison and pay restitution to victims' families. The portion of wages to be provided as restitution would be increased to 70 percent.
so it seems like a pretty small set of voters who would actually support the provisions of both. However for voters who didn't thoroughly read both all bets are off.
posted by atoxyl at 11:54 AM on October 18, 2016
(The campaign for 65 is funded by the plastic and paper lobbies, and supported by the CA Republicans.)
posted by atoxyl at 11:56 AM on October 18, 2016
posted by atoxyl at 11:56 AM on October 18, 2016
Thanks, atoxyl and themadthinker. I was never going to vote for 65 since (without even getting into supersession issues and legal chicanery) I see it as undermining business support for bag laws. I'm also generally not keen on bills whose sole or main purpose is to dictate what certain revenues can be spent on. However, I now better understand how one could be confused about 65 and 67. The footnote on that chart is a hell of a footnote!
Re 62 and 66:
it seems like a pretty small set of voters who would actually support the provisions of both.
It looks that way to me -- because I oppose capital punishment primarily on moral grounds. But I'm used to being in the minority, and one argument my "side" has used to expand its support is that capital punishment is exceedingly expensive to carry out (even more so than life without parole). I don't know how many voters have joined the abolition cause primarily on those grounds, but for someone who thinks in those terms, 62 and 66 could both look like "improvements". I've also heard the sentiment that the death penalty is cruel and would be less cruel if carried out quickly.
Anyway, when deciding how 62 and 66 should interact if both pass, one is positing from the beginning that some voters may vote yes on both (or, possibly, vote yes on one and abstain on the other). So, the unlikeliness of such a scenario is of no help in deciding what should happen in that scenario.
posted by aws17576 at 12:14 PM on October 18, 2016
Re 62 and 66:
it seems like a pretty small set of voters who would actually support the provisions of both.
It looks that way to me -- because I oppose capital punishment primarily on moral grounds. But I'm used to being in the minority, and one argument my "side" has used to expand its support is that capital punishment is exceedingly expensive to carry out (even more so than life without parole). I don't know how many voters have joined the abolition cause primarily on those grounds, but for someone who thinks in those terms, 62 and 66 could both look like "improvements". I've also heard the sentiment that the death penalty is cruel and would be less cruel if carried out quickly.
Anyway, when deciding how 62 and 66 should interact if both pass, one is positing from the beginning that some voters may vote yes on both (or, possibly, vote yes on one and abstain on the other). So, the unlikeliness of such a scenario is of no help in deciding what should happen in that scenario.
posted by aws17576 at 12:14 PM on October 18, 2016
Re: 61 - I am voting ABSOLUTELY NO. It is sponsored almost entirely by Michael Weinstein of the AIDS Healthcare Foundation. If that was it alone, I would still vote no, but it's not. According to Project Inform in San Francisco:
posted by Sophie1 at 12:30 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
the initiative does not address the actual price of drugs. Instead, the measure focuses on the discounts contracting entities will achieve. Because contracting discounts affect how the pharmaceutical industry decides to price a drug at launch and how much to increase prices over time, this initiative could actually increase the price of drugs in a number of public programs, including ADAP, Medi-Cal, the VA, and California’s prison system.Additionally, of course, AHF will be exempt from their own price measure. Every HIV organization except AHF opposes it. Hmmm.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:30 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
Hmmm... The anti 61 argument seems to be that it's written by an asshole (true) and that it might not lower drug costs for most people (but... Worth trying??) I guess I'm not wonky enough to evaluate the claim that it may raise prices (seems like drug companies would be in favor if that was a real risk?)
The anti ads have been deceptive.
If nothing else, I guess 61 is an argument for why the initiative system is really problematic. Even a well educated, invested voter can't meaningfully evaluate the claims of either side?
posted by latkes at 1:11 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
The anti ads have been deceptive.
If nothing else, I guess 61 is an argument for why the initiative system is really problematic. Even a well educated, invested voter can't meaningfully evaluate the claims of either side?
posted by latkes at 1:11 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
Thanks, atoxyl and themadthinker. I was never going to vote for 65 since (without even getting into supersession issues and legal chicanery) I see it as undermining business support for bag laws.
Yeah I'm guessing at minimum that was the intention but it's written an a way to make it sound kind of "green" and indeed I didn't really think that part through thoroughly when running through all the propositions for the first time. Pretty dirty! I didn't vote (absentee) yet because I knew I wasn't done researching but I think my parents may have voted for the two together based on my faulty reading of the chart.
posted by atoxyl at 1:36 PM on October 18, 2016
Yeah I'm guessing at minimum that was the intention but it's written an a way to make it sound kind of "green" and indeed I didn't really think that part through thoroughly when running through all the propositions for the first time. Pretty dirty! I didn't vote (absentee) yet because I knew I wasn't done researching but I think my parents may have voted for the two together based on my faulty reading of the chart.
posted by atoxyl at 1:36 PM on October 18, 2016
I'm really disappointed in Drum for coming out against Prop. 55. "Smells like bait and switch"? How? The Prop. 30 taxes helped balance our budget in 2012. This just extends some of them (the taxes on the rich).
Prop. 55 would leave permanent tax hikes on the rich that are used to support mainly our universities. If you care about higher taxes on the rich and/our our universities, you should be for Prop. 55.
posted by persona au gratin at 2:02 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
Prop. 55 would leave permanent tax hikes on the rich that are used to support mainly our universities. If you care about higher taxes on the rich and/our our universities, you should be for Prop. 55.
posted by persona au gratin at 2:02 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
61 is the one proposition that I'm especially annoyed about voting on precisely because it's so difficult for a layperson average voter to properly evaluate it. I'm leaning on voting no just because the potential fallout of a yes vote is unpredictable.
posted by yasaman at 2:29 PM on October 18, 2016
posted by yasaman at 2:29 PM on October 18, 2016
re: recreational marijuana legalization
Many industry investors are behaving consistently with the belief that the adult use legalization is fait accompli.
Lots of lobbying local governments (to draft business friendly local ordinances, which are required in addition to state regulations which has a skeleton sketched out, but is missing a lot of crucial details). There's a lot of money being thrown at small town governments right now.
Not to mention stupid-crazy land deals.
A lot of early forward-looking investors are going to get burnt by shady land barons.
WRT diversity in the Cannabis industry, the draft of the legislation clearly and specifically forgives people with non-felony marijuana-related convictions. However, because it will be a regulated industry, it's going to take relatively more money in capital expenditure to start an operation than it is to start an illegal one - I suspect the industry will remain predominantly white (like it has in WA, OR, and CO). Most projects that I'm hearing are looking in the $3M+ range (on the low end) for land and initial build.
However, the draft has a license class restricted to very small operations - this could potentially be an avenue for smaller boutique operations requiring lower initial expenditure, but wouldn't necessarily be an attractive investment decision (but we estimated that it's still a $1M upfront capex, breaking even in year 3, assuming the price of high-end product will show a similar pattern as seen in CO pre-/post- adult use legalization). The draft also appears to be trying to limit vertical integration (so you don't get only a few big corporations controlling the entire market).
posted by porpoise at 3:55 PM on October 18, 2016
Many industry investors are behaving consistently with the belief that the adult use legalization is fait accompli.
Lots of lobbying local governments (to draft business friendly local ordinances, which are required in addition to state regulations which has a skeleton sketched out, but is missing a lot of crucial details). There's a lot of money being thrown at small town governments right now.
Not to mention stupid-crazy land deals.
A lot of early forward-looking investors are going to get burnt by shady land barons.
WRT diversity in the Cannabis industry, the draft of the legislation clearly and specifically forgives people with non-felony marijuana-related convictions. However, because it will be a regulated industry, it's going to take relatively more money in capital expenditure to start an operation than it is to start an illegal one - I suspect the industry will remain predominantly white (like it has in WA, OR, and CO). Most projects that I'm hearing are looking in the $3M+ range (on the low end) for land and initial build.
However, the draft has a license class restricted to very small operations - this could potentially be an avenue for smaller boutique operations requiring lower initial expenditure, but wouldn't necessarily be an attractive investment decision (but we estimated that it's still a $1M upfront capex, breaking even in year 3, assuming the price of high-end product will show a similar pattern as seen in CO pre-/post- adult use legalization). The draft also appears to be trying to limit vertical integration (so you don't get only a few big corporations controlling the entire market).
posted by porpoise at 3:55 PM on October 18, 2016
Large parts of the medical marijuana industry stand to lose out considerably if it becomes readily available, rather than only through medical marijuana channels, don't they?
The results of the Pro 19 vote in 2010 to legalize were interesting: It failed in Humboldt county 54% to 46%.
posted by soylent00FF00 at 4:05 PM on October 18, 2016
The results of the Pro 19 vote in 2010 to legalize were interesting: It failed in Humboldt county 54% to 46%.
posted by soylent00FF00 at 4:05 PM on October 18, 2016
I am voting for Prop 64 in part because I hope it kills off a lot of the *wink wink* "medical" marijuana industry. Unfortunately, real medical studies are unlikely without Federal reclassification.
posted by 3j0hn at 7:54 PM on October 18, 2016
posted by 3j0hn at 7:54 PM on October 18, 2016
> and that it might not lower drug costs for most people (but... Worth trying??)
AHF doesn't seem to think it's worth trying, given that they have exempted themselves from what their own proposition says other contracting agencies should do.
posted by rtha at 8:24 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
AHF doesn't seem to think it's worth trying, given that they have exempted themselves from what their own proposition says other contracting agencies should do.
posted by rtha at 8:24 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
I had no idea AHF was behind Prop 61. They are a terrible organization run by a bad person, so that's reason enough to vote against it for me.
I'm with latkes; 61 is a great example of the kind of thing that should never go to a popular vote of the entire state. It's far too complicated for people to make an informed decision without 100+ hours of research.
posted by Nelson at 9:05 PM on October 18, 2016
I'm with latkes; 61 is a great example of the kind of thing that should never go to a popular vote of the entire state. It's far too complicated for people to make an informed decision without 100+ hours of research.
posted by Nelson at 9:05 PM on October 18, 2016
Normally I'd be reflexively for anything Big Pharma is against. (So. Many. Ads.). But perhaps not with 61.
posted by persona au gratin at 12:52 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by persona au gratin at 12:52 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
I need to go though my pile of mail and see if my ballot is there, under the vast tsunami of flyers.
posted by tavella at 9:34 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by tavella at 9:34 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Gah, I'm so late with this. Affordable housing is on the ballot in Santa Monica:
No on LV! LWV fact sheet, opponents of LV*
Yes on GS & GSH
*disclosure, I have friends on this list
posted by Room 641-A at 10:00 AM on October 25, 2016
No on LV! LWV fact sheet, opponents of LV*
Yes on GS & GSH
*disclosure, I have friends on this list
posted by Room 641-A at 10:00 AM on October 25, 2016
Thank the gods. I only just found this thread via the current blue behemoth. Thanks for posting this, Sophie1.
posted by homunculus at 2:44 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 2:44 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah I posted my proposition stuff in the main election thread. I think a few of this year's propositions seems like a really good idea on the surface but are a bad idea in the long run.
posted by Justinian at 11:11 PM on October 25, 2016
posted by Justinian at 11:11 PM on October 25, 2016
I'm currently sitting on my couch surrounded by voter guides and ballot pages, and I'm going through this thread to get info on various propositions, but while I'm here I'm also taking the opportunity to favorite comments about the awfulness of the proposition system in a fit of pique, so if you're wondering what's going on with your favorites count, that's what's up
posted by sunset in snow country at 3:42 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by sunset in snow country at 3:42 PM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
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